Rithm Capital Corp (RITM) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the Rithm Capital first-quarter 2025 earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

大家好，歡迎參加 Rithm Capital 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）

Please note, this event is being recorded.

請注意，此事件正在被記錄。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Emma Bolla, Associate General Counsel. Please go ahead.

現在我想將會議交給副總法律顧問 Emma Bolla。請繼續。

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. I would like to thank you for joining us today for Rithm Capital's first-quarter 2025 earnings call. Joining me today are Michael Nierenberg, Chairman, CEO, and President of Rithm Capital; Nick Santoro, Chief Financial Officer of Rithm Capital; and Baron Silverstein, President of Newrez.

謝謝大家，早安。感謝您今天參加 Rithm Capital 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。今天與我一起出席的還有 Rithm Capital 董事長、執行長兼總裁 Michael Nierenberg； Rithm Capital 財務長 Nick Santoro；以及 Newrez 總裁 Baron Silverstein。

Throughout the call, we are going to reference the earnings supplement that was posted this morning to the Rithm Capital website, www.rithmcap.com. If you've not already done so, I'd encourage you to download the presentation now.

在整個通話過程中，我們將參考今天早上發佈在 Rithm Capital 網站 www.rithmcap.com 上的收益補充文件。如果您還沒有這樣做，我建議您現在下載該簡報。

I would like to point out that certain statements made today will be forward-looking statements. These statements, by their nature, are uncertain and may differ materially from actual results. I encourage you to review the disclaimers in our press release and earnings supplement regarding forward-looking statements and to review the risk factors contained in our annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC.

我想指出的是，今天發表的某些聲明將是前瞻性聲明。這些陳述本質上是不確定的，可能與實際結果有重大差異。我鼓勵您查看我們的新聞稿和收益補充中有關前瞻性陳述的免責聲明，並查看我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的年度和季度報告中包含的風險因素。

In addition, we will be discussing some non-GAAP financial measures during today's call. Reconciliations of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures can be found in our earnings supplement.

此外，我們將在今天的電話會議上討論一些非公認會計準則財務指標。在我們的收益補充報告中可以找到這些指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標之間的對帳。

And with that, I will turn the call over to Michael.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給麥可。

Thanks, Emma. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for jumping on the line this morning. Another good quarter for the company despite all the market volatility we're seeing play out. All of our business lines performed extremely well. And when I think about us, the market volatility plays well into the strength and disciplines of our organization.

謝謝，艾瑪。大家早上好，感謝大家今天早上接電話。儘管我們看到市場波動，但該公司仍度過了一個表現良好的季度。我們所有的業務線都表現得非常出色。當我想到我們時，市場波動對我們組織的優勢和紀律產生了很大的影響。

Our investment teams have many years of experience and in markets like these, you want to make sure your capital is managed by investment professionals who know how to protect the fort as well as seek opportunistic investments to grow the business.

我們的投資團隊擁有多年的經驗，在這樣的市場中，您希望確保您的資金由懂得如何保護堡壘以及尋求機會投資來發展業務的投資專業人士管理。

As you will hear us speak about the growth of Rithm, I want to be clear, the one message is our desire to earn the trust of LPs and investors and the one thing that matters is performance. Performance matters first, and we will never set its performance in lieu of growing our platform.

正如您將聽到我們談論 Rithm 的發展一樣，我想明確一點，我們希望贏得 LP 和投資者的信任，而最重要的事情就是業績。性能是第一位的，我們永遠不會以性能來取代平台的發展。

When I think about our business, I'd like to say why us? And this goes back to a little bit of our comments from last quarter's earnings. Results first, we must have performance to grow our business.

當我考慮我們的業務時，我想說為什麼是我們？這又回到了我們對上個季度收益的一些評論。結果第一，我們必須有業績才能發展我們的業務。

Two, we have the ability to manufacture assets through our different operating businesses. We underwrite, originate, and service the assets from beginning to end. Servicing matters. Our mortgage company is the third largest servicer of mortgages in the United States.

二、我們有能力透過不同的營運業務製造資產。我們從頭到尾承保、發起並服務資產。服務事宜。我們的抵押貸款公司是美國第三大抵押貸款服務商。

Our asset management business continues to put up great results, and we look forward to growing our business in private funds. We are seeing inflows across all of our products and all of our funds. Sculpture's real estate fund now has commitments up to $3.2 billion so far, and this is the largest real estate fund in Sculpture's history building on their 20-year track record in opportunistic real estate investing.

我們的資產管理業務持續取得優異成績，我們期待私募基金業務的成長。我們看到我們所有產品和所有基金都有資金流入。Sculpture 的房地產基金目前已承諾投資高達 32 億美元，這是 Sculpture 歷史上最大的房地產基金，建立在其 20 年機會主義房地產投資記錄的基礎上。

When you look at our company, from top to bottom, we now have funds in the following: real estate, credit, energy, infrastructure, and we have cash flow based funds such as ABF, which is the new old buzzword of the day. This quarter, we'll be rolling out MSR funds as well.

從上到下，縱觀我們的公司，我們現在擁有以下領域的基金：房地產、信貸、能源、基礎設施，並且我們擁有基於現金流的基金，例如 ABF，這是當今的新流行語。本季度，我們也將推出 MSR 基金。

As you hear about the term ABF, which many of our peers are marketing today, this is nothing new, and we've been doing this our entire career. Where can you get diversified risk with teens returns and current cash flow, EF.

正如您所聽到的 ABF 這個術語，我們的許多同行今天都在推銷它，這並不是什麼新鮮事，我們整個職業生涯都在這樣做。在哪裡您可以獲得青少年回報和當前現金流的分散風險，EF。

So we're seeing huge demand for that product. So our value prop is the following: results first in our investment professionals and teams are best-in-class across all of our investment businesses. We have over 400 individuals and operating business lines have approximately 7,000 people.

因此，我們看到該產品的需求量龐大。因此，我們的價值主張如下：我們的投資專業人員和團隊首先要取得成果，他們都是所有投資業務中最好的。我們擁有超過 400 名員工，營運業務線約有 7,000 名員工。

When I look at our company and how we trade in the public markets, our equity is severely undervalued. We continue to work on our capital structure and look forward to unlocking shareholder value. And finally, our manufacturing engine for assets differentiates us from others. We can differentiate our product offerings again from others.

當我審視我們的公司以及我們在公開市場上的交易情況時，我發現我們的股權被嚴重低估了。我們將繼續致力於改善我們的資本結構，並期待釋放股東價值。最後，我們的資產製造引擎使我們與眾不同。我們可以使我們的產品與其他產品再次區分開來。

So now I'll refer to the supplement which is posted online. I'm going to start on page 3. Similar slides of what we put up. Again, number three mortgage servicer in the US number five mortgage originator in the US little under $8 billion of permanent capital between assets managed both on the private side as well as the public side, there's over $80 billion of assets under management.

所以現在我將參考網路上發布的補充資料。我將從第 3 頁開始。與我們放出的幻燈片類似。再一次，美國第三大抵押貸款服務商和第五大抵押貸款發起人，其管理的私人和公共資產的永久資本略低於 80 億美元，管理的資產超過 800 億美元。

When you look to the right side of the page, our family of operating companies, again, one of the largest mortgage companies in the US, Newrez, Sculptor, obviously, our asset management business, Genesis Capital, one of the largest RTL lenders in -- again, in the US non-bank-RTL lenders in the US Rithm Property Trust was the business that we took over, which we rebranded from Great Ajax. And now we're on a very good path with that business. And then finally, a door, which is our single-family rental business.

當您查看頁面右側時，您會看到我們的營運公司家族，其中包括美國最大的抵押貸款公司之一 Newrez、Sculptor，顯然還有我們的資產管理業務 Genesis Capital，它是美國最大的 RTL 貸款機構之一——同樣，在美國，美國非銀行 RTL 貸款機構 Rithm Property Trust 是我們接管的業務，我們將其從 Great Amx 更名為 RithkProperty。現在我們的業務進展順利。最後是一扇門，這是我們的單戶住宅租賃業務。

Financial results, page 4, again, very stable, very solid quarter earnings available for distribution $0.52 per diluted share. That represents a year-over-year growth. This is the 22nd consecutive quarter where EAD was greater than common dividends paid. GAAP net income, $36.5 million or $0.07 per diluted share a 2% return on equity. Obviously, you're going to have some mark-to-market volatility around the MSR business.

財務結果（第 4 頁）同樣顯示，非常穩定、非常穩健的季度可供分配收益為每股 0.52 美元。這代表著同比增長。這是 EAD 連續第 22 個季度高於支付的普通股股息。GAAP 淨收入為 3,650 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.07 美元，股本回報率為 2%。顯然，MSR 業務將會面臨一些市價波動。

Earnings available for distribution $275 million, as I pointed out, $0.52 per diluted share or 17% return on equity. That business should continue -- our business overall should continue to do something between 15% and 20% on an annual basis.

正如我所指出的，可供分配的收益為 2.75 億美元，每股攤薄收益 0.52 美元，或股本回報率為 17%。這項業務應該會繼續下去——我們的整體業務每年應該會繼續成長 15% 到 20% 之間。

Book value of $6.6 billion at the end of the quarter, we were trading at $12 in third -- I'm sorry, our book value is $12.39. When you look at where we trade, I think we closed last night at $10.40 again, I firmly believe that our equity is severely undervalued. And with doing, we will be taking measures to hopefully unlock that and get true value out of our business.

本季末的帳面價值為 66 億美元，我們的第三季交易價為 12 美元——抱歉，我們的帳面價值為 12.39 美元。當你查看我們的交易情況時，我認為我們昨晚的收盤價再次達到 10.40 美元，我堅信我們的股權被嚴重低估了。並且，我們將採取措施，希望能解決這個問題並從我們的業務中獲得真正的價值。

Common stock dividend 8.7% dividend yield, $0.25 per common share in dividends paid and cash and liquidity at the end of Q1 of $1.9 billion. looking at the quarter in review, pretty active is what I would say.

普通股股息殖利率為 8.7%，每股普通股股息為 0.25 美元，第一季末現金和流動性為 19 億美元。回顧本季度，我想說的是相當活躍。

On the Genesis Capital side, a little under $1 billion in production, 7% increase year over year in that business will continue to grow for us. We had 33 new sponsors in the quarter. And Clint Arrasmith, who runs that business does a great job for us. And again, we're excited about the growth prospects there.

在 Genesis Capital 方面，產值略低於 10 億美元，該業務年增 7%，並將繼續為我們帶來成長。本季我們有 33 位新贊助商。負責這項業務的 Clint Arrasmith 為我們做出了巨大貢獻。我們再次對那裡的成長前景感到興奮。

On the asset management side, Sculptor, $35 billion of AUM, continued fundraising momentum with $1.4 billion of gross inflows across the platform in both real estate and credit, good performance for the first quarter.

在資產管理方面，資產管理規模達 350 億美元的 Sculptor 繼續保持籌資勢頭，整個平台的房地產和信貸領域總流入資金達 14 億美元，第一季表現良好。

And then finally, we priced a spec in the first quarter, which gives us some -- our ability to generate more fees for shareholders and do some off-balance sheet, a potential acquisition that would be off balance sheet.

最後，我們在第一季對一個規格進行了定價，這給了我們一些能力——為股東創造更多的費用，並進行一些表外交易，即一項潛在的表外收購。

On the investment portfolio, we did 3 securitizations in the first quarter, totaling roughly $1.5 billion. We did a $900 million securitization on our MSR business. and we also invested roughly $1.5 billion in the quarter in non-QM loans, residential transitional loans and both RMBS and ABS.

在投資組合方面，我們在第一季進行了3次證券化，總額約15億美元。我們對 MSR 業務進行了 9 億美元的證券化。本季我們還在非 QM 貸款、住宅過渡貸款以及 RMBS 和 ABS 上投資了約 15 億美元。

Again, with the thought process there that diversified risk with teams returns will benefit both our shareholders and LPs. On the Newrez side, again, top three servicer, top five originator servicing portfolio, roughly $850 billion. That includes our party servicing, which will continue to grow.

再次，透過團隊回報分散風險的思考過程將使我們的股東和 LP 都受益。在 Newrez 方面，前三大服務商、前五名發起人服務組合總額約為 8,500 億美元。其中包括我們的派對服務，該服務將繼續增長。

Obviously, Cooper and Rocket did a deal in quarter, and I'm sure there'll be some questions on that. First quarter funded volume a little under $12 million and then we generated $270 million of pretax income ex mark-to-market is up 14% year over year. When paid [6], our foundation for growth, I feel like some touch will beat in a dead horse here, but the ABF space is, what I would say, alive and well us and other folks in the marketplace, this is kind of the brand dejour of the date.

顯然，庫柏和火箭隊在本季度達成了交易，我相信對此會有一些疑問。第一季的融資額略低於 1,200 萬美元，然後我們產生了 2.7 億美元的稅前收入（以市價計算）年增 14%。當支付 [6] 時，我們的成長基礎，我覺得這裡的一些接觸會是徒勞的，但我想說的是，ABF 空間對我們和市場上的其他人來說仍然活躍，這是一種日期的品牌盛宴。

And as I pointed out in my opening remarks, this is something we've been doing, quite frankly, from my whole career, and our investment teams here have been doing it their whole career. So I feel like we have a real good edge there to create real value for LPs as we continue to roll out funds in that space.

正如我在開場白中指出的那樣，坦白說，這是我整個職業生涯中一直在做的事情，我們這裡的投資團隊整個職業生涯都在做這件事。因此，我覺得，隨著我們繼續在該領域推出資金，我們擁有真正的優勢，可以為 LP 創造真正的價值。

Where are we going next stage of growth, grow off balance sheet capital, what does that mean? Grow origination businesses, grow funds and take origination and put that in funds with and grow our LP base which will enable us to not grow our balance sheet and get higher valuations on our overall company, expand investment verticals.

我們的下一階段成長方向是什麼，增加表外資本，這意味著什麼？發展發起業務，增加資金，並將發起資金投入基金，擴大我們的 LP 基礎，這將使我們能夠不增加資產負債表，並提高我們整個公司的估值，擴大投資垂直領域。

I mentioned Rithm Property Trust, which was the old Great Ajax business. Rithm Acquisition Corp is our SPAC asset-based finance where the markets now with funds, energy transition, infrastructure.

我提到了 Rithm Property Trust，它是古老的 Great Ajax 企業。Rithm Acquisition Corp 是我們的 SPAC 資產融資公司，目前市場涵蓋資金、能源轉型和基礎設施。

We currently have those funds up and going as well. So -- and then the main theme, what I would say as you think about growth in the asset management business, it's really -- you need partnerships. The traditional way of raising capital in our opinion, of just going out and raising a fund is great, and we'll continue to do that. But having real partnerships with LPs who are part of your life is something that I think is really going to be the key for us as we go forward.

我們目前也已設立並開始運作這些資金。所以 — — 然後是主要主題，當你考慮資產管理業務的成長時，我想說的是 — — 你真的需要合作夥伴關係。我們認為，傳統的籌集資金的方式，即出去籌集資金，是一種很好的方式，我們會繼續這樣做。但我認為，與你生活中的一部分的 LP 建立真正的合作關係才是我們未來發展的關鍵。

Page 7. When you look at how we trade, we trade roughly at 83% of book value. We got to get away from the so-called book value metric. We should be trading, in my opinion, on a multiple of earnings and if you look at where we trade relative to others, again, I think there's a ton of value here so if you look at the some of the parts on the right side of the page, we have a low estimate where we think we should be of $13.69 high estimate of roughly $23, and these numbers are not made up.

第 7 頁。如果你看我們的交易方式，你會發現我們的交易額大約是帳面價值的 83%。我們必須擺脫所謂的帳面價值指標。在我看來，我們應該以市盈率進行交易，如果你看看我們相對於其他公司的交易情況，你會發現，我認為這裡有很大的價值，所以如果你看一下頁面右側的某些部分，我們有一個低估值，我們認為應該是 13.69 美元，高估值大約是 23 美元，這些數字不是編造的。

These are real numbers relative to peers in the marketplace where we think we should trade so I would encourage you to have a look at that because, again, I do believe our equity is severely undervalued because we get lumped into, quite frankly, with other no disrespect with other REITs and other mortgage companies. And as we continue our growth into the asset management world, we'd like to make sure that we get proper valuations, and I think that's going to help us grow overall.

這些是相對於我們認為應該交易的市場同行而言的真實數字，因此我鼓勵您看一下，因為，我再次確信我們的股權被嚴重低估了，因為我們被歸類為其他類別，坦率地說，沒有不尊重其他房地產投資信託基金和其他抵押貸款公司的意思。隨著我們在資產管理領域的不斷發展，我們希望確保適當的估值，我認為這將有助於我們的整體發展。

Page 8, this is a slide we put in, it just shows our growth over the years since '21, $6.9 billion of capital deployed earnings growth of 53% with a CAGR of 11%.

第 8 頁，這是我們放入的一張投影片，它展示了我們自 21 年以來多年來的成長情況，69 億美元的資本部署收益成長了 53%，複合年增長率為 11%。

Page 9, we wanted to put this in there because a lot of the volatility has occurred over the past few weeks and a lot of this, again, plays into the strength of who we are as we think about risk and risk discipline as well as opportunistic investing. We've been doing this for a very, very long time. And here's just a slide talking about where spreads are. You could see how high yield has blown out.

第 9 頁，我們想把這一點放在那裡，因為過去幾週發生了很多波動，而當我們考慮風險和風險紀律以及機會投資時，這在很大程度上再次發揮了我們的實力。我們已經這樣做了很長很長時間了。這只是一張幻燈片，討論了價差在哪裡。您可以看到收益率已經飆升到何種程度。

You can see different movements in both gold, bitcoin and oil. And then if you look on the left side of the page in equities, you could have a good snapshot of what's going on there. None of this is a surprise to anybody.

您可以看到黃金、比特幣和石油的不同走勢。然後，如果您查看股票頁面左側的內容，您就可以清楚地了解那裡發生的情況。這一切對任何人來說都不足為奇。

But we do believe wholeheartedly in the so-called growth of our ABF business, and that's something that, again, we feel like we have an edge and we have expertise in I'll spend a few minutes on a couple of our operating businesses, then I'll turn over the mortgage company stuff to Baron.

但我們確實全心全意地相信我們 ABF 業務所謂的成長，而且，我們再次感到，我們有優勢，我們有專業知識。我會花幾分鐘時間介紹我們的幾個營運業務，然後我會將抵押貸款公司的事情交給 Baron。

On the Genesis side, again, a very, very solid quarter. If you look to the right side of the page here, 46% growth year-over-year from a commitment perspective, 7% growth from funded volume delinquencies which are truly the core to what I think to what we do here remain extremely low. And a lot of that is due to our underwriting and our servicing and those teams do a great job and then when you look at the growth, it's up 37% year over year.

從 Genesis 方面來看，本季業績同樣非常穩健。如果您看一下頁面的右側，從承諾的角度來看，同比增長了 46%，從資助量拖欠的角度來看，增長了 7%，而我認為這是我們在這裡所做工作的核心，但增長率仍然非常低。這在很大程度上要歸功於我們的核保和服務，這些團隊做得非常出色，當你看到成長時，你會發現它比去年同期成長了 37%。

Page 12, you can just have a quick look -- this is just the portfolio detail. There's -- 58% is construction, 32% is bridge and 10% is renovation. We are going to be looking to grow our family presence. We think there's going to be opportunities whether that be acquired companies, but we want to grow our origination in multifamily as we believe that sector. Obviously, it's got hit pretty hard, no different than the single-family rental space, but what we need to see is the economics make sense relative to a number of the other strategies that we do here.

第 12 頁，您可以快速瀏覽一下——這只是投資組合的詳細資訊。其中 58% 為建築，32% 為橋樑，10% 為翻新。我們將尋求擴大我們的家庭影響力。我們認為無論是被收購的公司都會有機會，但我們希望擴大我們在多戶型住宅領域的業務，因為我們相信這個領域。顯然，它受到的打擊相當嚴重，與單戶住宅租賃領域沒有什麼不同，但我們需要看到的是，相對於我們在這裡採取的許多其他策略而言，它的經濟意義是顯而易見的。

couple of minutes on asset management. Sculptor business continues to perform well during the quarter, as I punted out $1.4 billion of inflows. $870 million was due to the real estate business. That brings that to $3.2 million when you look at the credit fund just last week, there was an announcement on the close of $900 million in AUM on [stacks]. That's the Sculptor tactical credit fund great performance there. And we also closed a CLO in the quarter in Europe for $420 million.

關於資產管理的幾分鐘。由於我投入了 14 億美元的資金流入，雕塑家業務在本季繼續表現良好。 8.7億美元來自房地產業務。這使得這一數字達到 320 萬美元，看看上週的信貸基金，有消息稱，AUM 已關閉 9 億美元。[堆疊]。這就是雕塑家戰術信貸基金在那裡的出色表現。本季我們也在歐洲完成了一筆價值 4.2 億美元的 CLO。

Business is performing extremely well. Returns are very good. And overall, when I look at our asset management business, very, very excited where we're going.

業務表現極為良好。回報非常好。總的來說，當我審視我們的資產管理業務時，我對我們的發展方向感到非常興奮。

On the Rithm Property Trust, this we're doing earnings on Monday on this business. We took this where it was really an RPO business in the single-family space turned it into an opportunistic commercial REIT.

關於 Rithm Property Trust，我們將於週一公佈該業務的收益。我們將其從單一家庭住宅領域的 RPO 業務轉變為機會主義商業房地產投資信託基金 (REIT)。

It was losing money. Now it's breakeven. We raised $50 million of a pref in the quarter. That business is sitting on a little under $100 million of cash. We have $300 million of equity there. We're going to look to grow that. And as you think about asset management, there's an asset management fee there of 1.5% and then there's promote all of that will lead into what we hope is going to be higher for asset management business and just more earnings overall.

它正在虧損。現在已經損益兩平。我們在本季籌集了 5000 萬美元的優先股。該公司目前擁有近 1 億美元現金。我們在那裡擁有3億美元的股權。我們將努力實現這一目標。當您考慮資產管理時，資產管理費為 1.5%，然後還有促銷，我們希望所有這些都能提高資產管理業務的收益，從而帶來更多的整體收益。

And then finally for me, on page 16, just our spec, $230 million spec. This correlates to a target of something between probably $1 billion and $1.5 billion. I think we believe today the spec market is vastly different than it was back in '21/'22, from a value standpoint. So we're excited as we continue to look at plenty of targets in that space.

最後，對我來說，第 16 頁只是我們的規格，2.3 億美元的規格。這與大約 10 億美元至 15 億美元的目標有關。我認為，從價值的角度來看，今天的投機市場與 21/22 年相比有很大不同。因此，當我們繼續關注該領域的眾多目標時，我們感到非常興奮。

With that, I'll skip the investment portfolio side, and I'm going to turn it over to Baron who's going to talk about new risk.

這樣，我就跳過投資組合方面的問題，把話題交給巴倫，他將討論新的風險。

All right. Thank you, Michael. Good morning, everybody. Starting on slide 20. As Michael mentioned, just another great quarter as we continue to execute on our '25 strategy, focused on recapture, technology, our AI initiatives and growing our third-party businesses.

好的。謝謝你，麥可。大家早安。從第 20 張投影片開始。正如邁克爾所提到的，這又是一個偉大的季度，我們將繼續執行我們的 25 戰略，重點關注重新奪回、技術、我們的人工智慧計劃以及發展我們的第三方業務。

Q1 pretax income, excluding mark-to-market was approximately $270 million, up 14% year over year and delivering a 19% ROE for the quarter. right? And with Newrez being the number three ranked servicer and the number five ranked originator, these results continue to show the power of the platform.

第一季稅前收入（不包括以市價計算）約為 2.7 億美元，年增 14%，本季淨資產收益率為 19%。正確的？Newrez 是排名第三的服務商和排名第五的發起商，這些結果繼續顯示了該平台的實力。

Turning to slide 21. Our performance over the last few years, demonstrating really the strong momentum we've had on both sides of the business and as we continue to take advantage of opportunities to generate these consistent returns.

翻到第 21 張投影片。我們過去幾年的表現確實表明了我們在業務兩端都擁有強勁的發展勢頭，並且我們將繼續利用機會創造持續的回報。

And in right, our focus on building a best-in-class platform, focused on our homeowners, innovation through process efficiency and AI and market opportunities, whether organically or externally that will continue to drive our returns overall.

實際上，我們專注於建立一流的平台，以房主為中心，透過流程效率、人工智慧和市場機會進行創新，無論是內部還是外部，都將繼續推動我們的整體回報。

Moving to Slide 22. Our origination business continued also to perform well. Michael mentioned $11.8 billion in funded volume and $65 million in pretax income. And while the MBA forecasted Q1 volumes to be flat to last year, we're up 9% in funded volume, 7% in lock volume and 54% in pretax income when compared to the first quarter in '24. However, with expected overall lower origination volume, we saw increased competition and, in turn, margin compression.

移至投影片 22。我們的發起業務也持續表現良好。麥可提到融資額為 118 億美元，稅前收入為 6,500 萬美元。儘管 MBA 預測第一季的交易量將與去年持平，但與 24 年第一季相比，我們的融資量增加了 9%，鎖定量增加了 7%，稅前收入增加了 54%。然而，由於預期整體發起量較低，我們看到競爭加劇，進而導致利潤率壓縮。

And given these conditions, we did not chase market share, remain disciplined in our pricing with a focus on our ROE. And at these origination levels, our multichannel strategy allows us to optimize opportunities in all market environments and all of our channels remain profitable in the first quarter.

鑑於這些條件，我們並沒有追逐市場份額，而是在定價上保持紀律，重點關注我們的 ROE。在這些發起層面，我們的多通路策略使我們能夠優化所有市場環境中的機會，並且我們所有的通路在第一季都保持獲利。

Turning to slide 23. One of our top priorities and significant growth opportunities, our ability to retain our customers with or without a rate rally amplifying our brand and building great digital experience is key to our success in connecting with our 3.7 million homeowners. Our recapture investments are focused on delivering great experiences to our homeowners including seamless, easy to close refinances, fantastic white glove service for home purchases and a digital home equity offering with closing is as fast as 3 days.

翻到第 23 張投影片。我們的首要任務之一和重大成長機會是，無論利率是否上漲，我們都能留住客戶，擴大我們的品牌影響力並打造出色的數位體驗，這是我們成功與 370 萬房主建立聯繫的關鍵。我們的重新投資專注於為房主提供出色的體驗，包括無縫、輕鬆完成的再融資、出色的購房白手套服務以及最快 3 天即可完成的數位房屋淨值服務。

Moving to slide 24. Our servicing business also performing very well. $242 million of pretax income, up 7% quarter over quarter which is driven by our servicing portfolio of $845 billion, which is $509 million of owned MSRs and $254 billion of third-party servicing.

移至投影片 24。我們的服務業務也表現得很好。稅前收入 2.42 億美元，季增 7%，這得益於我們 8,450 億美元的服務組合，其中包括 5.09 億美元的自有 MSR 和 2,540 億美元的第三方服務。

Our third-party servicing franchise also continuing last year's growth by adding four new clients in the first quarter alone. One of our top part is the expansion of our resi AI initiatives, which continue to empower our employees with real-time tools that deliver a superior customer experience.

我們的第三方服務特許經營也延續了去年的成長勢頭，僅在第一季就增加了四個新客戶。我們的首要任務之一是擴展我們的 resi AI 計劃，該計劃將繼續為我們的員工提供即時工具，以提供卓越的客戶體驗。

In addition to the gains from our resi AI technology. Our focus on operational excellence, process efficiency and scale continue to drive our cost leadership as evidenced by our $140 cost of service that significantly outperformed the industry.

除了我們 resi AI 技術帶來的效益之外。我們對卓越營運、流程效率和規模的關注繼續推動我們的成本領先地位，這從我們 140 美元的服務成本大大優於行業就可以看出。

Turning to slide 25. You see our owned MSR performance, which not surprisingly is reflective of current market conditions, including higher interest rates, low speeds and strong consumer performance. Delinquencies and associated advanced balances also improved with 60-day delinquencies down 30 basis points to 3.1%, reflecting the high quality of our overall portfolio.

翻到第 25 張投影片。您可以看到我們擁有的 MSR 表現，這毫不奇怪地反映了當前的市場狀況，包括更高的利率、更低的速度和強勁的消費者表現。拖欠率和相關預付餘額也有所改善，60 天拖欠率下降 30 個基點至 3.1%，反映出我們整體投資組合的高品質。

Lastly, on slide 26, we have an incredible third-party servicing client franchise. Our platform advantages allow us to deliver a differentiated value prop to our partners' success. And we've been doing this a long time. We have over 100 clients, right? And our capabilities have enabled us to retain 98% of the customers we have done business with since 2015.

最後，在第 26 張投影片上，我們擁有令人難以置信的第三方服務客戶特許經營權。我們的平台優勢使我們能夠為合作夥伴的成功提供差異化的價值主張。我們已經這樣做很久了。我們有 100 多個客戶，對嗎？我們的能力使我們能夠保留自 2015 年以來 98% 的客戶。

I believe our business is the best position it has ever been. We're well positioned to grow market share in our third-party servicing, whether through wallet share with our existing customers, adding new clients who are taking advantage of ongoing servicing dislocations. So I look forward to telling the Newrez growth story throughout 2025.

我相信我們的業務正處於有史以來的最佳狀態。我們已做好準備，擴大第三方服務的市場份額，無論是透過與現有客戶分享錢包，還是透過利用持續的服務錯位來增加新客戶。因此，我期待在 2025 年講述 Newrez 的成長故事。

Thank you. Back to you, Michael.

謝謝。回到你身邊，麥可。

Thanks, Baron. Why don't we turn it back to the operator for some Q&A?

謝謝，巴倫。我們為什麼不把它交還給操作員進行一些問答呢？

(Operator Instructions) Bose George, KBW.

（操作員指示）Bose George，KBW。

Actually, first, can I -- let me start off with a question on the Cooper Rocket transaction. given that any changes in how you see the opportunities or the growth at Newrez. And then the related question, does that change anything in terms of potential listing or other ways you're looking to show the value of Newrez a little better?

實際上，首先，我可以——讓我先問一個關於 Cooper Rocket 交易的問題。考慮到您對 Newrez 的機會或成長的看法有任何變化。然後相關的問題是，這是否會對潛在上市或您希望更好地展示 Newrez 價值的其他方式產生任何改變？

I'm sorry, Bose. The -- but I would say on the Newrez side, it's going to be business as usual as we go forward. while saying that, I do think, as a result of the [Cooper Rocket] deal, there'll be an opportunity to pick up some subservicing as a result of the sheer size of the combination of those platforms. If you look, we're what, $850 and I think Cooper, I think the combination is what something about $1.5 trillion or so -- yes. So there'll be some stuff to do and add there.

對不起，Bose。但我想說，就 Newrez 方面而言，隨著我們繼續前進，一切將照常進行。儘管如此，我確實認為，由於 [Cooper Rocket] 交易，我們將有機會透過這些平台組合的龐大規模來獲得一些次級服務。如果你看一下，我們的數字是 850 美元，而我認為 Cooper，我認為這個數字加起來大約是 1.5 兆美元左右——是的。因此，那裡有一些事情要做和添加。

The main thing for us is how do we -- and Baron, I think, hit the nail on the head, we don't want to just buy market share for the sake of market share to get bigger, what we really want to do is figure out a way to grow earnings, and I think we're on the right path with the company.

對我們來說，最重要的是我們如何——我認為巴倫說得一針見血，我們不想僅僅為了市場份額而購買市場份額來擴大規模，我們真正想要做的是找到增加收益的方法，我認為我們公司正走在正確的道路上。

As it relates to listing, what I would say is we -- when I look at how we trade and if you look at the sum of the parts page on page 7, and these are real numbers, right? I mean there's a print. Cooper Rocket did the deal at [two times buck]. So if you really look to the right side of the page on page 7, the we need to figure out a way to unlock value, whether that's taking the company public, whether that's externalizing Rithm, whether that adds C Corp, there's a number of different things that we look at daily.

就上市而言，我想說的是——當我查看我們的交易方式時，如果您查看第 7 頁的各部分總和，這些都是實數，對嗎？我的意思是有印刷品。Cooper Rocket 達成交易[雙倍降壓]。因此，如果你真的看第 7 頁的右側，我們需要找到一種方法來釋放價值，無論是將公司上市，還是將 Rithm 外部化，還是添加 C Corp，我們每天都會關注許多不同的事情。

And what I would think is we -- I'm hopeful that we'll have some kind of capital action by the end of '25 that unlocks a lot of value here because I do think the equity is extremely undervalued, and we're excited to actually get it to the right place, which if you take a mid-range of, call it, [14 and 23], there's no reason we shouldn't be able to get to something like that.

我認為我們 — — 我希望到 25 年底我們能採取某種資本行動，釋放出很多價值，因為我確實認為股票被嚴重低估了，我們很高興能把它放到正確的位置，如果你取一個中間值，稱之為 [14 和 23]，我們沒有理由不能達到這樣的水平。

Great. That's helpful. And then could we just get an update on book value quarter-to-date, just given all the volatility?

偉大的。這很有幫助。那麼，考慮到所有的波動性，我們能否獲得本季迄今的帳面價值更新資訊？

Yes. Probably -- I think it's in and around $1,260, so it's up a bit from the end of Q1 is what I would say. In our markets, when you look at where we are in rate right now, I think 10-year rate is, give or take, $430 the front end is in and around $375 million. We are as close to home as we've probably been in many, many years. So -- and I think our belief is if the economy does slow down, we should be in a really good place. If it doesn't slow down, we'll be in a good place as well. Risk discipline right now is something that I think we're very good at.

是的。可能——我認為它在 1,260 美元左右，所以我想說它比第一季末略有上漲。在我們的市場中，當你看看我們現在的利率時，我認為 10 年期利率大約是 430 美元，前端大約是 3.75 億美元。我們距離家的距離可能是多年來最接近的一次。所以——我認為我們的信念是，如果經濟確實放緩，我們應該處於一個非常好的位置。如果這種趨勢不減緩，我們也會處於有利地位。我認為我們現在非常擅長風險紀律。

Doug Harter, UBS.

瑞銀的道格·哈特。

Michael, how are you thinking about potential acquisition opportunities, whether that's at the Rithm level or Rithm Acquisition Corp? And is the dislocation we've seen in April kind of enough to shake loose some opportunities at more attractive prices?

邁克爾，您如何看待潛在的收購機會，無論是在 Rithm 級別還是在 Rithm Acquisition Corp？那麼，我們在四月看到的混亂是否足以讓我們以更具吸引力的價格獲得一些機會？

Yes. What I would say, the hope is yes. Our M&A pipeline is extremely active and that could be -- whether it be in the mortgage space or in the asset management space. What I would say is valuations. When you look at what's happened with the equity market, valuations overall are lower.

是的。我想說的是，希望是的。我們的併購管道非常活躍，無論是在抵押貸款領域還是在資產管理領域。我想說的是估值。當你觀察股票市場發生的情況時，你會發現整體估值較低。

When you look at, again, the asset management business, I've been pretty vocal that I believe we're underscaled in credit, and we want to empty get bigger in credit. So that's an area that we're very much focused on. When I -- again, when I look at the asset management space now that we have an energy infrastructure business, we're really excited about that. And hopefully, at some point in this quarter, we'll come out with some news on that business.

再看看資產管理業務，我已經明確表示，我認為我們的信貸規模太小，我們希望擴大信貸規模。這是我們非常關注的領域。當我——再次，當我審視資產管理領域時，我們現在有了能源基礎設施業務，我們對此感到非常興奮。希望在本季度的某個時候，我們能發布有關該業務的一些消息。

But I expect us to be active on the M&A front, and this is not just to do deals. This is to figure out how we play on a much broader and bigger skill because I do think you need to be bigger to compete with some of the very best asset management firms out there. So I think short long-winded short answer is that we need to be -- we're going to be more active or we are active, and we hope to get a couple of deals done here in the near future.

但我希望我們能夠在併購方面積極行動，而不僅僅是進行交易。這是為了弄清楚我們如何發揮更廣泛、更大的技能，因為我確實認為你需要更大才能與一些最好的資產管理公司競爭。所以我認為簡短的回答是我們需要——我們將更加積極或我們已經積極了，我們希望在不久的將來在這裡完成幾筆交易。

Got it. And it was solid fundraising in the first quarter. Any early sense as to kind of LP appetite for continuing to invest into this volatility? Is there a pause how should we think about fundraising activity given recent volatility?

知道了。第一季的融資情況穩健。有沒有初步跡象顯示 LP 有興趣繼續投資這種波動性？鑑於最近的波動，我們該如何看待募款活動？

I would say across the platform, we are all extremely active. I believe our brand is very good and resonates with folks. As you know, before we internalized here at what we now know is Rithm. All of our capital is raised in the public markets, and it's a must that we raise our money in the private markets. And again, I think the key to success for us is going to be to have partnerships and relationships with LPs, or part of our life and not just fund investors, and we look forward to that as well.

我想說，在整個平台上，我們都非常活躍。我相信我們的品牌非常好並且能引起人們的共鳴。如你所知，在我們內化之前，我們現在知道的是 Rithm。我們所有的資金都是在公開市場籌集的，我們也必須在私人市場籌集資金。而且，我認為我們成功的關鍵在於與 LP 建立合作夥伴關係和關係，或者說，這是我們生活的一部分，而不僅僅是基金投資者，我們也期待這一點。

So we're -- I mean, I would tell you that we're extremely far and really excited on the prospects of where we're going with our company. And if we could turn where we trade like whatever, 5, 6 times EBITDA to where we should trade, which is a double-digit multiple, I feel like we're going to be off to the races. So very excited.

所以我們——我的意思是，我想告訴你，我們對公司未來的發展前景非常樂觀，並且感到非常興奮。如果我們可以將我們的交易水平，例如 5 到 6 倍的 EBITDA 調整到我們應該交易的水平，也就是兩位數的倍數，我覺得我們就可以開始競爭了。我非常興奮。

Rick Hagen, BTIG.

BTIG 的 Rick Hagen。

Can you guys maybe share some of the performance that you've seen develop at Sculptor and where you've seen maybe the strongest returns where you expect to maybe attract the most to point forward and even the segments within Sculptor, where you expect the AUM to be the stickiest from this point?

你們能否分享一下 Sculptor 的一些發展表現，以及您認為哪些地方的回報可能是最強勁的，您預計哪些地方可能會吸引最多的人來投資，甚至 Sculptor 內部哪些部分，您預計從現在起 AUM 會最具粘性？

Thanks, Eric. Performance has been good. I mean across the board, obviously, the credit business is doing well. When you think about the multi-strat business, and you look at what's happened to the equity markets, they're still positive on the quarter. So what I would say is things are going well.

謝謝，埃里克。表現一直很好。我的意思是，從整體來看，信貸業務顯然表現良好。當您考慮多策略業務並觀察股票市場發生的情況時，您會發現他們對本季仍然持樂觀態度。所以我想說的是事情進展順利。

When you look at the real estate business, I mentioned before, $3.2 billion of commitments Steve Orbuck and Nick Hecker and their team have done a great job over the past 20 years, great brand. I don't -- quite frankly, I don't think it's easy for any real estate firm to go out and raise $3.2 million. And there's really very little to no legacy assets, opportunistic investing with a great track record.

當你看房地產行業時，我之前提到過，32億美元的承諾，史蒂夫奧巴克和尼克赫克及其團隊在過去20年裡做了出色的工作，打造了偉大的品牌。我不認為——坦白說，我認為任何房地產公司籌集 320 萬美元都不是一件容易的事。而且實際上幾乎沒有遺留資產，機會主義投資有著良好的業績。

So we're really excited about that, and it's long-dated money. When you look across the so-called ABF base, I do believe there's going to be a fair amount of capital that's going to come into in that part of the world. And across the platforms, we have AB funds that we're working on.

所以我們對此感到非常興奮，而且這是長期資金。當你看一看所謂的 ABF 基地時，我確實相信會有相當數量的資本流入那個地區。在所有平台上，我們都在籌備 AB 基金。

And then when I look at the opportunity in the so-called energy and infrastructure space, with our new teams that we've added here at the I'm excited where that business is going to go. So what I'd say, in general, very focused on, again, relationships, partnerships, and where we're going with the business. And I think returns overall have been very good.

然後，當我看到所謂的能源和基礎設施領域的機會時，隨著我們在這裡增加新團隊，我對這項業務的發展方向感到興奮。所以我想說，總的來說，我們非常關注的是關係、夥伴關係以及我們的業務發展方向。我認為整體回報非常好。

Great to hear good stuff. I think you mentioned rolling out third-party MSR funds. Can you maybe share some of the fees that you expect to earn on that capital or those assets? And with total return that investors are maybe expecting from that vehicle and finally, I mean, are some of the LPs in that vehicle also contributing to other sources of AUM at Sculptor?

很高興聽到好消息。我想您有提到推出第三方 MSR 基金。您能否分享一下您預計從這些資本或資產中賺取的一些費用？投資者可能期望從該工具中獲得總回報，最後，我的意思是，該工具中的某些 LP 是否也為 Sculptor 的其他 AUM 來源做出了貢獻？

What I would say on the MSR funds, not out yet, will be out with them. They'll be typically there will be teams returns is the way that we're viewing that business. It's an effort and an opportunity to get more stuff off balance sheet into what I would call longer dated funds I think there's a lot of demand in the marketplace for those types of funds. As it relates to fees, I think it's TBD right now.

我想說的是，關於 MSR 基金的事情，目前還沒有公佈，但會隨他們公佈。他們通常會有團隊回報，這就是我們看待這項業務的方式。這是一種努力，也是一個機會，可以將更多的資產負債表內容轉移到我所說的較長期基金中，我認為市場對這類基金的需求很大。至於費用，我認為現在還有待確定。

Got you. If I could just ask one more here. I mean it looks like almost $400 million of valuation changes for the MSR in the period, how does that maybe align with your expectations? And is the hedging offset coming from the investment portfolio? Or what's the best way to think about how that $400 million was maybe offset with hedging?

明白了。如果我可以在這裡再問一個問題。我的意思是，看起來在此期間 MSR 的估值變化接近 4 億美元，這與您的預期相符嗎？對沖抵消是否來自投資組合？或者，如何最好地思考如何透過對沖來抵消這 4 億美元？

The net number, I believe, was about $185 million overall. And that's offset with hedges, whether we're long mortgages, treasuries, we have swap receivers on. And as I pointed out earlier, we are as close to home as we've been in many, many years. So the market follows really -- while it's looking at screens is not always fun. I do believe that we're in a very good place, no matter what direction the market goes right now.

我認為，淨額總計約 1.85 億美元。而這可以透過對沖來抵消，無論我們是長期抵押貸款還是國債，我們都有掉期接收者。正如我之前指出的，我們距離家鄉的距離是多年來最接近的。因此市場確實在跟隨——雖然看著螢幕並不總是很有趣。我確實相信，無論市場現在如何發展，我們都處於一個非常好的位置。

Jason Weaver, JonesTrading.

傑森·韋弗（Jason Weaver），JonesTrading。

First, I was wondering if you could comment broadly on any credit events or sorry, credit possible deterioration that you've seen within the Genesis portfolio into the first quarter?

首先，我想知道您是否可以廣泛評論第一季 Genesis 投資組合中出現的任何信貸事件，或者信貸可能惡化的情況？

No. I mean, performance is -- we could -- here's what I would say about that business. we could chase market share and grow that business pretty significantly. We've seen others do that. And as a result, their delinquency numbers are up pretty significantly.

不。我的意思是，性能是——我們可以——這就是我對該業務的看法。我們可以追逐市場份額並大幅增長業務。我們看到其他人也這麼做。結果，他們的違法犯罪率大幅上升。

When our business, overall performance has been very, very steady if you look at -- I forgot what slide it is, but delinquency numbers are in and around 2% for the portfolio. So things are good there. Keep in mind, we also go to a different type of what I would say, sponsor relative to others in that marketplace. .

當我們的業務時，如果你看一下，整體表現一直非常非常穩定 - 我忘了它是什麼幻燈片，但投資組合的拖欠率在 2％ 左右。那裡的情況很好。請記住，我們也會談到不同類型的贊助商，相對於市場上的其他贊助商。。

Fair enough. And then a follow-up to that, maybe just comment broadly on what you think the implications are for the securitization bid here given the amount of market volatility out there?

很公平。然後接下來，也許您可以廣泛評論一下，考慮到目前的市場波動程度，您認為這對證券化競標有何影響？

There's a lot of deals getting done. I mean that values right now are great. I mean if you're a buyer. You look at, for example, in some of the single-family non-QM space, where there's a lot of demand, both on the fund side and from the money manager side. Triple As with a turn with a couple of turns of leverage are in right now, somewhere is around 13% to 15% IRR. So I think one is the markets -- while there's a lot of volatility you're open, not everybody will like the spreads that you execute at.

有很多交易正在完成。我的意思是現在的價值觀很棒。我的意思是如果你是買家。例如，你可以看到，在一些單戶非 QM 領域，無論是基金方面還是資金經理方面，都存在著很大的需求。目前，Triple A 的槓桿率已達到數倍，內部收益率 (IRR) 約為 13% 至 15%。所以我認為一個因素是市場——雖然你開放的市場波動性很大，但並不是每個人都會喜歡你執行的價差。

We've actually done a -- I think we've done a couple of deals here recently in the space. But in general, they're open wider spreads and what are spreads create opportunity for folks with capital. And we've been doing some buying ourselves for our portfolios on a variety of what I would call ABF type assets that includes non-QM. That includes RTL that includes -- we just did some home improvement loans. So we're very active right now in acquiring assets.

我們實際上已經做了——我想我們最近在這個領域做了幾筆交易。但總體而言，它們的利差更大，而利差為擁有資本的人創造了機會。我們一直在為我們的投資組合購買各種我稱之為 ABF 類型的資產，其中包括非 QM。其中包括 RTL——我們剛剛做了一些家居裝修貸款。因此，我們現在非常積極地收購資產。

Kenneth Lee, RBC Capital Markets.

加拿大皇家銀行資本市場 (RBC Capital Markets) 的 Kenneth Lee。

Just one on the Sculptor Asset Management side. Wondering if you could just give us a sense of overall targeted fundraising levels this year or perhaps give us a little bit more color around any of the sizes of the previous or predecessor funds that are undergoing fundraising now?

雕塑家資產管理公司 (Sculptor Asset Management) 方面只有一個。您可以向我們介紹今年的整體目標籌款水平，或者能否向我們詳細介紹目前正在籌款的先前或前任基金的規模？

I don't know the exact number of funds that are in the marketplace now. What I would say, there's many, and that includes both credit that includes real estate that includes ABF, both at the scope to level and at the rhythm level right now. So what are the targets you need to -- and one of the things when you think about raising capital for funds, you need to be able to execute on the back end. And our story and we're going to stick to that knitting is performance first.

我不知道現在市場上到底有多少基金。我想說的是，有很多，包括信貸、房地產和 ABF，目前既有範圍層面，也有節奏層面。那麼您需要的目標是什麼——當您考慮為基金籌集資金時，您需要能夠在後端執行。我們的故事和我們將堅持的編織是性能第一。

So it's not just raising a fund, but it's actually how do we deploy capital and earn the trust and respect of LPs on that capital that they're allocating to us as a fiduciary so while we want to raise a lot of money in our funds business and have strategic partnerships, we got to execute on the back end. I'm very, very confident that we could do that.

因此，這不僅僅是籌集資金，而是我們如何部署資本並贏得 LP 的信任和尊重，他們將資本分配給我們作為受託人，因此，雖然我們希望在基金業務中籌集大量資金並建立戰略合作夥伴關係，但我們必須在後端執行。我非常有信心我們能夠做到這一點。

But we'll be out with -- we are, and we'll be out with multiple funds as long as we believe that we could raise the capital to be able to deploy it. and deployed at the proper returns. So I'll give you an example.

但我們會推出——我們會推出，只要我們相信我們能夠籌集到足夠的資金來部署它，我們就會推出多隻基金。並部署適當的回報。我給你舉個例子。

Going back to -- when I was at Fortress and we were running MSR funds at Fortress, we'd raised $1.6 billion for MSR funds with a specific targeted return? And what -- when we took a look at it, and I looked at this, I said, okay, we're not going to be able to deploy the capital at those returns, so I gave $1 billion back.

回顧——當我在 Fortress 時，我們在 Fortress 管理 MSR 基金，我們為 MSR 基金籌集了 16 億美元，並有特定的目標回報？當我們查看它時，我說，好吧，我們無法以這些回報部署資本，所以我退還了 10 億美元。

The point is we're going to raise, I believe we're going to raise a lot of money, but we want to make sure that we earn the returns that we're going out to market with. So I think some of it's going to be market conditions, but you'll see credit, you'll see ABF. You'll see real estate and you'll see energy and infrastructure. I think those are the main funds from us now.

重點是我們要籌集資金，我相信我們會籌集很多資金，但我們希望確保我們能夠獲得與行銷相符的回報。所以我認為其中一些將是市場條件，但你會看到信貸，你會看到 ABF。你會看到房地產、能源和基礎設施。我認為這些是我們現在的主要資金。

Got you. Very helpful there. And one follow-up, if I may, just on the SPAC vehicle, the Rithm Acquisition Corp. Wondering what was the motivation behind raising it using such a vehicle? Were there other options that were considered? And you mentioned it's been -- it's a slightly different market than what it was back in the early 2020s, maybe just further expand upon that.

明白了。非常有幫助。如果可以的話，我還有一個後續問題，是關於 SPAC 工具 Rithm Acquisition Corp 的。想知道使用這種工具籌集資金的動機是什麼嗎？是否還考慮過其他選擇？正如您所提到的——現在的市場與 2020 年代初的市場略有不同，也許可以進一步擴展。

It gives us the ability, one, to generate asset management fees for the house. It gives us the ability to generate an off-balance sheet vehicle. And quite frankly, if we could help make shareholders more money, that's really the logic around that. I don't think it's anything more complicated than that. It's -- you have two years to deploy the money.

它使我們有能力，第一，為房屋產生資產管理費。它使我們能夠產生表外工具。坦白說，如果我們能夠幫助股東賺更多的錢，這才是真正的邏輯。我認為沒有什麼比這更複雜了。你有兩年的時間來部署這筆資金。

It's a relatively low-cost option in our opinion. And from a valuation point, if you look back to, again, '21 or '22 when the SPAC market was in this silly frenzy, and we looked at a ton of deals when we were at Fortress and we gave -- we actually gave them our spec money back because there was no deal that made any sense whatsoever.

我們認為這是一個相對低成本的選擇。從估值的角度來看，如果你回顧一下 21 年或 22 年，當時 SPAC 市場正處於這種愚蠢的狂熱之中，我們在 Fortress 時研究了大量交易，我們實際上把我們的投機資金退還給了他們，因為根本沒有任何交易是有意義的。

If you look at value, they're actually -- there's some reasonable valuations on things we're looking at. And again, whether that be either in the energy and infrastructure space or whether that be in the so-called financial services space.

如果你看一下價值，它們實際上——我們正在關注的東西有一些合理的估值。再說一遍，無論是在能源和基礎設施領域，還是在所謂的金融服務領域。

So we're excited about being able to deploy that and create more asset management fees and ultimately, there could be something that's synergistic to our business or it could be something that to state an off-balance sheet investment for that vehicle.

因此，我們很高興能夠部署它並創造更多的資產管理費用，最終，可能會有一些對我們的業務有協同作用的東西，或者可以為該工具列示表外投資。

Giuliano Bologna, Compass Point.

朱利亞諾·博洛尼亞，指南針點。

Congrats on another great quarter. One thing I'm curious about is when you think about the topic of capital actions or the discussion around essentially listing the [word] company, is there any kind of -- to your event that you think would move you closer to moving forward with the plan, whether it's externalizing manager or trying to do a partial IPO of Newrez? Or is there anything that would move that process along or is it really just market conditions and pursue value from the different initiatives?

恭喜您又一個出色的季度。我很好奇的一件事是，當您考慮資本行動或圍繞公司上市的討論時，您認為有什麼活動可以讓您更接近推進計劃，無論是外部經理還是嘗試對 Newrez 進行部分 IPO？或者有什麼可以推動這一進程，或者這實際上只是市場條件並從不同的舉措中追求價值？

Yes. What I would -- what's going to move it along. We're moving it along. I mean, quite frankly, like I said, it's a little bit frustrating to see how our equity trades and the results that we continue to put up. I would also say that Part of this is we want to grow the so-called FRE and our asset management business.

是的。我會做什麼——怎樣才能推動它發展。我們正在推進它。我的意思是，坦白說，就像我說的，看到我們的股票交易情況和我們繼續取得的成果，有點令人沮喪。我還想說，部分原因是我們希望發展所謂的 FRE 和我們的資產管理業務。

That is one of the keys and that's kind of held us back a little from where we are right now to be -- to moving forward with a different capital plan. But while saying that, I think we're at a point where we're hopeful something is going to happen in '25.

這是關鍵因素之一，它在某種程度上阻礙了我們推進目前的狀況——推動不同的資本計畫。但儘管如此，我認為我們還是充滿希望地認為 25 年會發生一些事情。

That sounds good. And I realize you have touched on kind of roughly where you're hedging to do this is. But I'm curious, do you have any high target in the near term or yes. intention to run around a certain hedge kind of ratio? Or is that still somewhat flexible where you might still be opportunistic around market?

聽起來很好。我意識到你已經大致提到了你為實現這一目標所採取的措施。但我很好奇，您近期有什麼高目標嗎？是否打算圍繞特定的對沖比率進行操作？或者這仍然具有一定的靈活性，您可能仍然會在市場上尋找機會？

I would say we are home. We're not taking a lot of what I would call duration risks right now just because I don't believe we have an edge. The one thing I will say is we've had a steepener on. which has worked extremely well, where you've seen the front end rally, the curve steepened out, I think, what, 20 or 25 basis points, I think since the end of last quarter.

我想說我們到家了。我們目前不會承擔太多我稱之為持續時間的風險，只是因為我不相信我們有優勢。我要說的是，我們已經變得更陡峭了。這種方法效果非常好，你可以看到前端反彈，曲線變陡，我認為，自上個季度末以來，已經上升了 20 或 25 個基點。

So we're going to continue with the steepener and with the belief that if the economy does slow down, Fed is going to cut rates, front end will benefit, and I'm not sure the long-end rates actually go down, they potentially could go up because it could be inflationary.

因此，我們將繼續採取陡峭化措施，並相信如果經濟確實放緩，聯準會將會降息，前端利率將受益，但我不確定長期利率是否真的會下降，它們可能會上升，因為這可能會引發通貨膨脹。

So the way that we're viewing it is against the mortgage servicing right, we have mortgages and kind of long-dated receivers against the MSR book and we have virtually no shorts on against the front end. So we feel like we're at extremely well here.

因此，我們看待它的方式是針對抵押貸款服務權，我們有抵押貸款和針對 MSR 帳簿的長期接收者，而且我們幾乎沒有針對前端的空頭部位。所以我們覺得我們在這裡做得非常好。

That's helpful. And maybe one last quick one. On the mortgage side platform, obviously, there's a commentary on subservicing been a super deal. I'm curious if you've seen any opportunities in the market for large subservicing wins, obviously, there's a limited number of large-scale subserves out there. it seems like that a further movement around the industry. I'm curious if you're seeing anything from an activity perspective out there in the market?

這很有幫助。也許還有最後一個快速問題。在抵押貸款方面，顯然有評論稱次級服務是一筆超級交易。我很好奇您是否看到了市場上任何獲得大型子服務勝利的機會，顯然，大型子服務的數量有限。這似乎是該行業的另一個動向。我很好奇您是否從市場活動的角度看到了什麼？

Yes. I mean the answer is yes. There's no question about it. There continues to be a fair amount of movement. And our pipeline is active, I would say, overall. Certainly, the Cooper announcement, they had a lot of subservicing and it's a matter of -- those clients are obviously evaluating their alternatives and options as well.

是的。我的意思是答案是肯定的。毫無疑問。仍有相當多的活動。我想說，總體而言，我們的管道是活躍的。當然，庫柏宣布，他們有很多次級服務，問題是——那些客戶顯然也在評估他們的替代方案和選擇。

Randy Binner, B. Riley FBR.

蘭迪·賓納 (Randy Binner)、B. Riley FBR。

I have a couple. I guess the first is following up on other questions around kind of measures to unlock value, the potential kind of Newrez is covered. But is there -- are there any other structural changes that you might consider in that kind of closing the gap between where the value is now and some of the parts that's laid out?

我有一對。我想首先要跟進的是有關釋放價值的措施的其他問題，其中涵蓋了 Newrez 的潛在類型。但是，您是否考慮進行其他結構性變革，以縮小當前價值與某些部分之間的差距？

The answer is yes. I mean it's like -- we -- this is something that's kind of a thorn in our side. We continue to look at all options. We have views. We've been working with some of our different investment banking friends at different firms. And we're confident that we're going to do something -- we're hopefully going to get something done here in '25.

答案是肯定的。我的意思是，這就像是我們身邊的一根刺。我們將繼續研究所有選擇。我們有觀點。我們一直與不同公司的一些投資銀行朋友合作。我們有信心，我們將會有所作為——我們希望能夠在 2025 年完成一些事情。

Okay. And so I mean, maybe it's a little bit of an obvious question or observation, but a REIT is not -- would that be -- would that change in that beyond the table?

好的。所以我的意思是，這也許是一個顯而易見的問題或觀察，但房地產投資信託基金 (REIT) 不是——那會是——除了表格之外，它還會改變嗎？

I mean it could be. I mean if you look some of the success you've seen in some of the financial services firms have been where they've changed. I mean we would give up our total REIT, but there's the possibility you could create a C-corp, you could drop things down, like, for example, the REIT gets smaller, down below.

我的意思是有可能。我的意思是，如果你觀察一下，你會發現一些金融服務公司的成功之處在於它們已經改變了。我的意思是，我們會放棄我們的整個房地產投資信託基金，但有可能你可以創建一個 C 公司，你可以把一些東西放下來，比如，房地產投資信託基金變得更小，放在下面。

There is -- that's probably the most likely path -- the one thing that's great about our business is we -- if you take a step back and say, okay, what is Rithm. Rithm has $8 billion of permanent capital, give or take. It's got $80 billion of assets under management between the asset management business and the balance sheet.

有 — — 這可能是最有可能的途徑 — — 我們的業務最棒的一點是 — — 如果你退一步思考，然後問，好吧，Rithm 是什麼。Rithm 擁有約 80 億美元的永久資本。其資產管理業務和資產負債表管理的資產總額達 800 億美元。

It makes $1 billion a year. So start with those three things, and then you turn around and say, well, you trade at $5.5 billion or $6 billion of market cap or whatever that number is, it's pretty s******, to be honest. So then the question is, how do we extract value. The one thing that's very important, I think, is the -- all the earnings that continue to come in the company, there's a ton of cash flow that enables us to grow our business.

它每年獲利10億美元。所以從這三件事開始，然後你轉過身說，好吧，你的市值為 55 億美元或 60 億美元，或者不管這個數字是多少，說實話，這太糟糕了。那麼問題是，我們要如何提取價值。我認為，非常重要的一點是——公司持續產生的所有收益，大量的現金流使我們能夠發展業務。

So part of it is a patient thing which, quite frankly, I don't have any. But the other part is, how do we get there? So I think the bones are there. We need to grow our FRE or grow our asset management business. then you're going to get a true valuation on the asset management business. And it's kind of no different than what some of the bigger and larger asset managers have done over the course of the past three to five years and we want to get there as well.

所以部分原因在於耐心，坦白說，我沒有耐心。但另一方面，我們如何實現這一目標？所以我認為骨頭就在那裡。我們需要擴大我們的 FRE 或擴大我們的資產管理業務。那麼您就會對資產管理業務獲得真正的估值。這與一些規模更大的資產管理公司在過去三到五年中所做的沒有什麼不同，我們也想實現這一目標。

I do know one thing. You can compete on the global stage unless you grow but as I pointed out before, we need to perform before we grow, and we do perform. And if you look at our returns over the course of our life, when we started this company at Fortress in 2013, the returns have been great. That's the only thing we care about. We need another dollar unless we're going to make people a lot of money, and that's the most important thing in having those relationships.

我確實知道一件事。除非你成長，否則你無法在全球舞台上競爭，但正如我之前指出的，我們需要在成長之前有所表現，而且我們確實有所表現。如果你回顧我們一生的回報，你會發現，當我們在 2013 年在 Fortress 創辦這家公司時，回報非常豐厚。這是我們唯一關心的事情。除非我們想為人們賺很多錢，否則我們還需要更多的錢，而這正是建立這些關係的最重要的事情。

So I think you'll see us unlock value this year. And it's very frustrating the way that we trade and we got to figure this out.

所以我認為你會看到我們今年釋放價值。我們的交易方式非常令人沮喪，我們必須解決這個問題。

All right. That's very helpful. And then if I may, because I think I've laid enough in the order here to just throw another one in -- just in GSE reform, it came up in the prior call. And meanwhile, I mean, meaning your last quarterly call, and then there's been quite a bit of activity from FHFA around personnel changes and derisking and just commentary that privatization efforts will most likely come forward.

好的。這非常有幫助。然後，如果可以的話，因為我認為我已經在這裡的命令中列出了足夠多的內容，只需再添加一個 - 就在 GSE 改革中，它出現在之前的電話會議中。同時，我的意思是，在您上次的季度電話會議上，聯邦住房金融局 (FHFA) 在人事變動和降低風險方面採取了相當多的行動，而且有評論稱私有化努力很可能會取得進展。

So is that -- is there any update on your side of kind of what you're looking for there? And what any potential impacts to the business might be assuming that the administration and [Pulte] move forward?

那麼——您那邊有沒有什麼更新的資訊可以說明您正在尋找什麼？假設政府和 [Pulte] 繼續前進，會對業務產生什麼潛在影響？

It plays extremely well to our strengths. If there is a privatization. I'm not sure how much that really affects the market. But to the extent there is the ability for us to deploy capital and -- for example, you go more, what I would say, nongovernment guaranteed type paper. I think that plays really, really well.

它極大地發揮了我們的優勢。如果有私有化。我不確定這對市場到底有多大影響。但在我們有能力部署資本的範圍內——例如，你會更多地談論非政府擔保類型的票據。我認為這確實非常有效。

And again, that feeds out the so-called ABF story as well, even more. So where we sit in that ecosystem, I think we're extremely excited. I don't think it's something that's going to happen right away. I think, obviously, there's probably a lot of talk there. and I are off next week to have a bunch of meetings.

這也進一步佐證了所謂的 ABF 故事。因此，我認為，對於我們處於這個生態系統的情況，我們感到非常興奮。我認為這不會馬上發生。我認為，顯然那裡可能有很多討論。我下週要休假去參加一系列會議。

So we'll see what happens. I think it's something that's going to probably take a little bit of time, but it's something that my guess is that they want to focus on.

因此我們將拭目以待。我認為這可能會花費一點時間，但我猜這是他們想要關注的事情。

Crispin Love, Piper Sandler.

克里斯賓·洛夫，派珀·桑德勒。

First, with the Asset Management business, Michael, you talked about adding partnerships. Can you just dig a little bit deeper there? What kind of partnerships are you looking to add over time? And just how is that progressing in this environment?

首先，邁克爾，您談到了資產管理業務中增加合作夥伴關係。能再深入挖掘一下嗎？隨著時間的推移，您希望增加哪些類型的合作關係？那麼在這種環境下進展如何呢？

So what I would say is the past couple of years, we've done what I would say is a lot of brand building without selling anything. And I think that resonates extremely well with people. It's no different than dating or developing a relationship with somebody.

所以我想說的是，在過去幾年裡，我們做了很多品牌建立工作，但並沒有出售任何東西。我認為這引起了人們的強烈共鳴。這與與某人約會或發展關係沒有什麼不同。

So for example, if there is a large transaction or something that we'd want to do, I think it's highly likely, which is different today than going back in time that we would bring in that we would look to bring in partners for those types of transactions.

舉例來說，如果有一筆大額交易或我們想做的事情，我認為這是很有可能的，這與過去我們尋求為這類交易引入合作夥伴的做法不同。

The same thing on the fund side. When you look at traditional fundraising, there's direct fundraising into funds, but there's also folks that want to partner with you and help grow your business. So we are extremely keen to develop more partnerships and bring people into our world.

基金方面也是同樣的情況。當您觀看傳統的籌款活動時，您會發現有直接向基金籌集資金，但也有希望與您合作並幫助發展您的業務的人。因此，我們非常渴望發展更多的合作夥伴關係，並將人們帶入我們的世界。

A good example, and this was announced yesterday publicly, Mubadala owns 70% of Fortress. Mubadala made an announced me yesterday, they were putting, I think, $1 billion, I believe, into funds. Those are the kind of transactions or relationships that we want. And I'm hopeful that, that will materialize over the course of -- as we continue to grow here.

一個很好的例子，昨天已公開宣布，穆巴達拉擁有 Fortress 70% 的股份。穆巴達拉昨天向我宣布，他們將向基金投入 10 億美元。這些就是我們想要的交易或關係。我希望，隨著我們繼續發展，這一目標能夠實現。

And then just one second question for me on Newrez. How are you seeing residential volumes trend in April, just considering the significant rate fall that we've seen and just expectations as you look throughout 2025, especially with rates elevated here, but with some potential volatility ahead and episodic moves?

然後我還有一個關於 Newrez 的問題。考慮到我們已經看到的利率大幅下降以及對整個 2025 年的預期，您如何看待 4 月份住宅交易量的趨勢，尤其是目前的利率上升，但未來可能會出現一些波動和偶發性走勢？

Certainly, it's -- you're seeing the spring volume coming in. So you're definitely seeing some pickup in production versus what we saw in the beginning of the first quarter. But as I mentioned, right, we remain opportunistic. It's still very competitive, but we definitely are seeing a pickup in volume overall, certainly in the month of April, and our expectation is going for into second quarter overall.

當然，你會看到春季銷量的增加。因此，與第一季初相比，你肯定會看到產量回升。但正如我所提到的，我們仍然抱持著機會主義的態度。競爭仍然非常激烈，但我們確實看到整體銷量有所回升，尤其是在四月份，我們預計整個第二季度銷量都會有所回升。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Michael Nierenberg for any closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。現在，我想將會議交還給麥可‧尼倫伯格，請他作最後發言。

Well, thanks for all the thoughtful questions this morning. Appreciate the support. Any follow-ups, we hear and have a good weekend. Thanks, everyone.

好吧，感謝您今天上午提出的所有深思熟慮的問題。感謝您的支持。有任何後續消息，我們都會聽到，祝您週末愉快。謝謝大家。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。