Rithm Capital Corp (RITM) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Rithm Capital third-quarter 2025 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Emma Hoelke, Associate General Counsel. Please go ahead.

早安，歡迎參加 Rithm Capital 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作說明）請注意，本次活動正在錄影。現在我將把會議交給副總法律顧問艾瑪‧霍爾克。請繼續。

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. I would like to thank you for joining us today for Rithm Capital's third-quarter 2025 earnings call. Joining me today are Michael Nierenberg, Chairman, CEO and President of Rithm Capital; Nick Santoro, Chief Financial Officer of Rithm Capital; and Baron Silverstein, President of Newrez. Throughout the call, we are going to reference the earnings supplement that was posted this morning to the Rithm Capital website, www.rithmcap.com. If you've not already done so, I'd encourage you to download the presentation now.

謝謝大家，大家早安。感謝各位今天參加 Rithm Capital 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。今天與我一同出席的有：Rithm Capital 董事長、執行長兼總裁 Michael Nierenberg；Rithm Capital 財務長 Nick Santoro；以及 Newrez 總裁 Baron Silverstein。在本次電話會議中，我們將多次提及今天早上發佈在Rithm Capital網站www.rithmcap.com上的獲利補充資料。如果您尚未下載，我建議您立即下載資料。

I would like to point out that certain statements made today will be forward-looking statements. These statements, by their nature, are uncertain and may differ materially from actual results. I encourage you to review the disclaimers in our press release and earnings supplement regarding forward-looking statements and to review the risk factors contained in our annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC. In addition, we will be discussing some non-GAAP financial measures during today's call. Reconciliations of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures can be found in our earnings supplement.

我想指出，今天所作的某些陳述屬於前瞻性陳述。這些陳述本質上是不明確的，可能與實際結果有重大差異。我建議您查看我們新聞稿和盈利補充文件中有關前瞻性聲明的免責聲明，並查看我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的年度和季度報告中所包含的風險因素。此外，我們將在今天的電話會議上討論一些非GAAP財務指標。這些指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的調整表可在我們的獲利補充文件中找到。

And with that, I will turn the call over to Michael.

接下來，我將把電話交給麥可。

Thanks, Emma. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining the call this morning. Our company had a great quarter with all of our business lines performing extremely well. Our market-leading business lines that enabled us to get here, Newrez, our mortgage company, which is one of the largest mortgage companies in the US; Genesis, our construction lender, which is one of the largest nonbank construction lenders in the US and our investment portfolio and team all had a really good quarter.

謝謝你，艾瑪。各位早安，感謝大家今天早上參加電話會議。我們公司本季業績斐然，所有業務線都表現出色。我們之所以能取得今天的成就，離不開我們市場領先的業務線，包括我們的抵押貸款公司 Newrez（美國最大的抵押貸款公司之一）、我們的建築貸款機構 Genesis（美國最大的非銀行建築貸款機構之一），以及我們的投資組合和團隊，這些業務線在本季度都取得了非常好的成績。

As we look at all the business lines that we built or acquired, this enabled us to generate approximately $300 million in earnings for our shareholders, generating an 18% ROE. We ended the quarter with $2.2 billion of cash and liquidity. During the quarter, we announced two acquisitions: Crestline, which is a credit manager based out of Fort Worth, Texas; and Paramount, which is a large real estate office REIT here based in New York City with properties in two of the gateway cities in the US, both New York and San Francisco. So we are clear, we will not be raising equity in the capital markets to fund these acquisitions. We will fund these acquisitions with a combination of balance sheet and third-party LPs and partners.

當我們審視我們建立或收購的所有業務線時，這使我們能夠為股東創造約 3 億美元的收益，實現了 18% 的淨資產收益率。本季末，我們擁有22億美元的現金和流動資金。本季度，我們宣布了兩項收購：Crestline，一家總部位於德克薩斯州沃斯堡的信貸管理公司；以及 Paramount，一家總部位於紐約市的大型房地產辦公 REIT，在美國的兩個門戶城市紐約和舊金山均擁有物業。因此，我們明確表示，我們不會透過在資本市場籌集股權來為這些收購提供資金。我們將透過資產負債表資金以及第三方有限合夥人和合作夥伴的資金來為這些收購提供資金。

The capital created by these business lines help us expand our platform. When we see an opportunity to acquire a company or an asset that helps expand our product offerings to our LPs, we try and take advantage of these types of situations. We are really excited with these acquisitions. Crestline is an $18 billion to $20 billion asset manager with great people, great investment professionals offering direct lending, NAV lending, credit products. They also have an insurance business and a reinsurance business.

這些業務線創造的資金有助於我們擴展平台。當我們發現有機會收購一家公司或一項資產，從而幫助我們擴大對有限合夥人的產品供應時，我們會努力利用這些機會。我們對這些收購感到非常興奮。Crestline 是一家資產管理規模達 180 億至 200 億美元的公司，擁有優秀的員工和投資專業人士，提供直接貸款、淨值貸款和信貸產品。他們還擁有保險業務和再保險業務。

So now we're in the insurance business. The suite of products that we have across our firm at Rithm and our subsidiaries enable us to offer a wide spectrum of credit and ABF products to our LP base and quite frankly, put us on the stage to be able to compete against anyone. Our mantra of performance first will enable us to grow our platforms. We are not, to be clear, in an AUM race. More importantly, what we want to do is lead with results.

所以現在我們涉足保險業務了。Rithm及其子公司擁有的全套產品使我們能夠向有限合夥人提供廣泛的信貸和ABF產品，坦白說，這使我們能夠與任何人競爭。我們秉持「業績至上」的理念，將助力我們平台的發展壯大。需要明確的是，我們並非在進行資產管理規模（AUM）的競賽。更重要的是，我們希望以結果為導向。

When we meet with LPs, they want fewer managers with more products, and I believe we are in the middle of accomplishing that. During the quarter, as I mentioned, we also announced the acquisition of Paramount. Paramount is a Class A office REIT with a great portfolio of office buildings in New York and San Francisco. There's 13 properties there. We are seeing huge demand for office in both New York City and the recovery in San Francisco has already begun.

當我們與有限合夥人會面時，他們希望基金經理人數減少，但產品種類增加，我相信我們正在朝著這個目標邁進。正如我之前提到的，本季我們也宣布收購了派拉蒙影業。Paramount 是一家 A 級辦公 REIT，在紐約和舊金山擁有大量優質辦公大樓。那裡有13處房產。我們看到紐約市對辦公空間的需求龐大，而舊金山的復甦也已經開始。

Acquiring assets for a little under $600 per foot versus replacement cost of $2,500 to $3,000 a foot gets us really excited. In New York, this portfolio is north of 90% leased. And in San Francisco, it's in the low 70s, creating a huge opportunity for us to grow NOI. When you look at the Paramount portfolio, not only will we grow occupancy, we also believe in the ability to drive rents higher as the average rent is approximately $85 per foot. For example, when we think about the need for office space, Rithm and our affiliates have a need for 100,000 of new space.

以每英尺不到 600 美元的價格購置資產，而重置成本為每英尺 2500 至 3000 美元，這讓我們非常興奮。在紐約，該投資組合的出租率超過 90%。而舊金山的淨營業收入在 70% 左右，這為我們提高營業淨收入創造了巨大的機會。從派拉蒙的投資組合來看，我們不僅會提高入住率，而且我們相信有能力提高租金，因為平均租金約為每平方英尺 85 美元。例如，當我們考慮辦公空間需求時，Rithm 和我們的附屬公司需要 10 萬個新的辦公空間。

It's very, very difficult to find space and average rents are well above the $85 per foot that I quoted in most markets for A quality office space. During the quarter, Paramount released their earnings last night, and I believe there's a couple of other REITs that released earnings. We're seeing some of the highest leasing activity that we've seen, and this goes back to the pre-COVID days. As it relates to Paramount, they have an excellent team of professionals who have been running the company for many, many years and as well as the operations. I believe there's approximately 300 people between corporate and ops.

現在很難找到辦公空間，而且大多數市場上優質辦公空間的平均租金都遠高於我之前提到的每平方英尺 85 美元。本季度，派拉蒙影業昨晚發布了收益報告，我相信還有其他幾家房地產投資信託基金也發布了收益報告。我們看到租賃活動達到了前所未有的高峰，這甚至可以追溯到新冠疫情爆發之前。就派拉蒙而言，他們擁有一支優秀的專業團隊，多年來一直負責公司的營運和管理。我認為公司總部和營運部門之間大約有 300 人。

We're very excited to work with the team, creating what we believe will be a terrific investment return for our LPs and shareholders. So as we look forward, our mission is still the same, put up solid results quarter after quarter, be able to offer more products to our LPs and partners and take advantage of opportunistic situations to generate outsized returns and grow the company. I'll now refer to our supplement, which has been posted online, and I'm going to begin on page 3. If you look in the upper part of the page, Rithm by the numbers, balance sheet, $47 billion, Sculptor has $37 billion of AUM. Crestline has $18 billion of AUM and Paramount has a $7 billion portfolio.

我們非常高興能與團隊合作，相信這將為我們的有限合夥人和股東帶來豐厚的投資回報。展望未來，我們的使命仍然不變，那就是每個季度都取得穩健的業績，為我們的有限合夥人和合作夥伴提供更多產品，並抓住機遇，創造超額回報，發展公司。現在我將參考我們已發佈在網路上的補充資料，我將從第 3 頁開始。如果你看一下頁面上方的數據，Rithm 的資產負債表顯示，其資產為 470 億美元，而 Sculptor 的資產管理規模為 370 億美元。Crestline 的資產管理規模為 180 億美元，Paramount 的資產組合為 70 億美元。

So when we think about this, we think about it in the context of having a little north of $100 billion in investable assets. And between the investment teams and that work on our balance sheet as well as putting up great results for our LPs, we're really excited where we sit today and where we're going. When you think about Rithm, very few companies have $8.5 billion of permanent capital. We're proud of that. We've grown this company in the public markets when we began this company back in 2013 at Fortress.

所以當我們思考這個問題時，我們會把它放在擁有略高於 1000 億美元的可投資資產的背景下思考。投資團隊在資產負債表方面所做的工作，以及為我們的有限合夥人帶來的豐厚回報，都讓我們對目前的狀況和未來的發展方向感到非常興奮。提到 Rithm，很少有公司擁有 85 億美元的永久資本。我們為此感到自豪。我們從 2013 年在 Fortress 創立這家公司起步，一路發展壯大，最後在公開市場站穩腳步。

The average investment team or the average age of the investment team, not age, but been working in the investment business has been 31 years. When you look at the bottom part of the -- you can see all the portfolio companies, Newrez, again, we're one of the top five mortgage companies in the US Sculptor has been around for 30 years-plus, great track record. The real estate team is just coming off a very successful capital raise, raising north of $4 billion for their business. Their brand is second to none in the real estate business.

投資團隊的平均年齡，或投資團隊的平均年齡（不是年齡，而是從事投資業務的平均年資），為 31 年。當你查看底部部分時——你可以看到所有投資組合公司，Newrez，我們再次成為美國排名前五的抵押貸款公司之一，Sculptor 已經成立 30 多年，擁有良好的業績記錄。該房地產團隊剛剛完成了一次非常成功的融資，為其業務籌集了超過 40 億美元的資金。他們在房地產行業擁有首屈一指的品牌。

Crestline, super excited to work together and help support that organization. Paramount, I mentioned on the real estate side. Genesis Capital, just to give you on that one, we bought that company from Goldman Sachs in 2022. At that time, it was doing $1.8 billion of production. This year, I think we're going to either approach or do north of $5 billion of production and EBITDA numbers have gone from $40-odd million to $120 million this year expected.

Crestline，非常高興能與他們合作並幫助支持該組織。我之前在房地產方面提到過派拉蒙。關於 Genesis Capital，我必須告訴你，我們在 2022 年從高盛手中收購了這家公司。當時，該公司的年產值為18億美元。今年，我認為我們的產量要么會接近要么會超過 50 億美元，而 EBITDA 預計今年將從 4000 多萬美元增長到 1.2 億美元。

And then we have Rithm Property Trust, which was the broken REIT we took over last year, which was known as Great Ajax. We're still trying to figure out a way, quite frankly, to grow that and put the right assets there. As we look at financial highlights on page 4, a really good quarter, and it's solid. All of our business lines contributing here. Earnings available for distribution, $0.54 per diluted share.

然後我們還有 Rithm Property Trust，這是我們去年接管的破產 REIT，它以前被稱為 Great Ajax。坦白說，我們仍在努力尋找發展壯大並投入合適資源的方法。從第 4 頁的財務亮點來看，這是一個非常好的季度，而且表現穩健。我們所有業務部門都為此做出了貢獻。可供分配的收益為每股攤薄收益 0.54 美元。

This is the 24th consecutive quarter where EAD was greater than our dividends paid. GAAP net income, $193.7 million or $0.35 per diluted share for return on equity of 11%. Keep in mind, that includes all the mark-to-market stuff. Earnings available for distribution, again, $297 million, $0.54 per diluted share or 18% return on equity. Book value, we closed the quarter at $12.83, which is $7.1 billion; dividend, $0.25.

這是EAD連續第24季大於我們支付的股利。GAAP淨利為1.937億美元，即每股攤薄收益0.35美元，股本回報率為11%。請記住，這包括所有按市值計價的內容。可供分配的收益為 2.97 億美元，每股攤薄收益 0.54 美元，股本回報率為 18%。帳面價值方面，我們本季末為每股 12.83 美元，即 71 億美元；股利為每股 0.25 美元。

And as I pointed out before, cash and liquidity on balance sheet, $2.2 billion. As you look at page 5, quarter in review. Once again, we've demonstrated steady growth year over year in all of our segments. During the quarter, as I mentioned earlier, we entered into a definitive agreement to acquire Crestline on September 3. We're hoping that deal closes on December 1.

正如我之前指出的，資產負債表上的現金和流動資金為 22 億美元。請看第 5 頁，季度回顧。我們所有業務板塊再次實現了逐年穩定成長。正如我之前提到的，本季我們在 9 月 3 日達成了收購 Crestline 的最終協議。我們希望這筆交易能在12月1日完成。

We entered into a definitive agreement to acquire Paramount on September 17. That will go out for shareholder vote, and we're hopeful that closes in mid-December. These acquisitions continue, as I pointed out before, to expand the product offerings that we have to -- when we sit down with an LP, we have a larger suite of products because LPs want fewer managers. And now with between Sculptor, Rithm, Crestline and some of the real estate stuff we're doing, we have a large amount of products that we could offer to our different clients. Fundraising across the platform, we continue to work hard to build that during the quarter.

我們於9月17日簽訂了收購派拉蒙影業的最終協議。該提案將提交給股東投票表決，我們希望在 12 月中旬完成表決。正如我之前指出的那樣，這些收購將繼續擴大我們的產品供應範圍——當我們與有限合夥人坐下來洽談時，我們將有一套更豐富的產品，因為有限合夥人希望基金經理的數量更少。現在，憑藉 Sculptor、Rithm、Crestline 以及我們正在進行的一些房地產項目，我們擁有大量產品可以提供給不同的客戶。我們將繼續努力，在本季透過平台籌集資金，以擴大籌款規模。

In Q4, we expect to close our first evergreen ABF fund on a leading wealth management platform. And then when you look at inflows, Sculptor continues to see some good inflows into their business. Bottom part of the page, Genesis Capital during the quarter, originated $1.2 billion of loans. That's a 60% increase year over year. We saw 71 new sponsors in -- what I would say on that company, credit first is the mantra.

我們預計將在第四季度透過領先的財富管理平台完成首支常青 ABF 基金的募集。然後，從資金流入情況來看，Sculptor 的業務資金持續保持良好成長。頁面底部顯示，Genesis Capital 在本季發放了 12 億美元的貸款。這比上年同期成長了60%。我們看到了 71 位新贊助商——關於這家公司，我想說的是，他們的座右銘是「先有功勞」。

It's not again just to grow, but credit first really matters. The mortgage company, Baron will take us through the mortgage company, but Baron and the team continue to do a great job there. And as the world changes and we think about AI and innovation, we're doing all we can to stay ahead of that. And then on the investment portfolio, during the quarter, we agreed on a forward flow to acquire up to $1 billion in home improvement loans. That's from upgrade.

這不僅僅是為了發展，信用首先至關重要。抵押貸款公司 Baron 將帶我們了解抵押貸款公司的情況，但 Baron 和他的團隊在那裡做得很好。隨著世界不斷變化，當我們思考人工智慧和創新時，我們正在盡一切努力保持領先地位。在投資組合方面，本季我們達成了一項遠期融資協議，將收購高達 10 億美元的房屋裝修貸款。這是升級帶來的。

We did a securitization for a little under $500 million on non-QM, and we invested $2.6 billion in non-QM loans and residential transition loans, and that's through our Genesis brand. When you look at the -- hello. When you look -- I'm on page 6 now. When you look at the -- our M&A update, what we wanted to do is put a page in here so you could have a sense for our liquidity walk. As I mentioned, cash and liquidity as of the end of Q3 is $2.2 billion.

我們對非合格抵押貸款進行了近 5 億美元的證券化，並透過我們的 Genesis 品牌投資了 26 億美元用於非合格抵押貸款和住房過渡貸款。當你看到——你好。你看——我現在翻到第6頁了。當你查看我們的併購更新時，我們希望在這裡添加一頁內容，以便你能夠了解我們的流動性狀況。正如我之前提到的，截至第三季末，現金和流動資金為 22 億美元。

Here, it shows -- what are we showing here. Sorry, why don't you take it?

這裡展示的是什麼？抱歉，為什麼不拿呢？

Sure. So at the end of the quarter, we ended with cash and cash equivalents on balance sheet of $1.6 billion. Then just rolling it forward, we have the Crestline acquisition and the Paramount acquisition. The amounts shown here are the expected cash outlays or uses at close, net of excess cash on the respective balance sheets of both Crestline and Paramount. Then we have our use of cash, which comes from -- our source of cash, which comes from drawing down on our financing facilities.

當然。因此，到季末，我們的資產負債表上的現金及現金等價物為 16 億美元。然後順著這個趨勢發展下去，我們又看到了 Crestline 的收購和 Paramount 的收購。這裡顯示的金額是交易結束時預計的現金支出或使用額，扣除 Crestline 和 Paramount 各自資產負債表上的超額現金。然後是我們的現金使用情況，現金來自——我們的現金來源，即提取我們的融資額度。

The expectation is at close, we will have approximately $1 billion of financing available to us. bringing us down to $1.3 billion of cash and cash equivalents post both the Crestline and Paramount transactions. And that $1.2 billion is well north of our regulatory requirements as well as working capital and what we hold for margin requirements.

預計交易完成後，我們將擁有約10億美元的可用融資額度。完成Crestline和Paramount的交易後，我們的現金及現金等價物將降至13億美元。12億美元遠高於我們的監管要求、營運資金以及保證金要求。

Thanks, Nick. On page 7, as we look at the -- again, this is something that we talk about quarter after quarter, the valuation of our company. We try to show the sum of the parts. When you look to the top part of the page, Rithm gets valued similar to mortgage REIT peers. We think there's a huge amount of upside for us to be able to unlock value.

謝謝你，尼克。在第 7 頁，我們再次看到——這是我們每個季度都會討論的事情——我們公司的估值。我們試著展現各部分的整體效果。當你查看頁面頂部時，你會發現 Rithm 的估值與抵押貸款 REIT 同行類似。我們認為，我們有很大的機會釋放價值。

That is going to be driven by our asset management business as well as by the mortgage company. If you look at most mortgage companies today or if you look at what I would call our peer group, they trade anywhere from 1.5 to 3 times. Right now, Rithm as a public company is trading call it, something around upper 0.8 to 0.9 times. If you think about the mortgage company getting valued properly, you think about the asset management business, even trading at 10 times, the following slide on page 8 will show you a range of outcomes, which we believe we will achieve over time of something between $16 and $23 as we compare ourselves either to different asset management firms or when we look at the valuation of our mortgage company and our Genesis business. With that, I'm going to now flip to page 10, which is the so-called power of our platform.

這將主要由我們的資產管理業務以及抵押貸款公司推動。如果你看看如今大多數抵押貸款公司，或看看我所說的我們的同業群體，它們的交易倍數在 1.5 倍到 3 倍之間。目前，Rithm 作為一家上市公司，其本益比約為 0.8 至 0.9 倍。如果您考慮抵押貸款公司以獲得適當的估值，並考慮資產管理業務，即使交易倍數為 10 倍，第 8 頁的下一張幻燈片將向您展示一系列結果，我們相信隨著時間的推移，我們將實現 16 至 23 美元之間的目標，因為我們將自己與不同的資產管理公司進行比較，或者當我們審視我們的抵押貸款公司和 Genesis 業務的估值，或者當我們審視我們的抵押貸款公司和 Genesis 業務的估值，或者當我們審視我們的抵押貸款公司和 Genesis 業務的估值，或者當我們審視我們的抵押貸款公司和 Genesis 業務的估值，或者當我們審視我們的抵押貸款公司和 Genesis 業務的估值，或者當我們審視我們的抵押貸款公司和 Genesis 業務的估值，或者當我們審視我們的抵押貸款公司和 Genesis 業務的估值，或者當我們審視我們的抵押貸款公司和 Genesis 業務的估值，或者當我們審視我們的抵押貸款公司和 Genesis 業務的估值。接下來，我要翻到第 10 頁，也就是我們平台的所謂力量。

As we pointed out before, a little north of $100 billion in assets. You can see all the different product offerings that we have right now to show out to our LPs and clients in corporate credit. There's really nothing more that we need when we look at corporate credit. We will be exploring over time the energy space, obviously, a very important space. Right now, there's nothing for us to do there.

正如我們之前指出的，資產略高於 1000 億美元。您可以看到我們目前向有限合夥人和企業客戶展示的所有不同產品。從企業信貸的角度來看，我們真的不需要其他任何東西了。我們將逐步探索能源領域，這顯然是一個非常重要的領域。現在，我們在那裡沒什麼可做的。

At Sculptor, there's the multi-strat fund. Our real estate business continues to grow. And ABF is something that is near and dear to our heart, and that's something that we think is going to be extremely scalable for us as an organization across all of our business lines. As I mentioned earlier, we expect to close one of our first ABF funds here in the fourth quarter, and that's on one of the large wealth platforms. And then we have a couple of other things that we're working on there.

Sculptor 提供多策略基金。我們的房地產業務持續成長。ABF 是我們非常重視的，我們認為它對於我們整個組織的所有業務線來說都將具有極強的可擴展性。正如我之前提到的，我們預計將在第四季度完成我們首批 ABF 基金之一的募集，該基金將在一個大型財富管理平台上運作。此外，我們還在處理其他幾件事。

Page 11, Crestline, just gives you a quick snapshot of that business. Again, $18 billion of AUM acquired in September, was founded in '97, headquartered in Fort Worth, offices in New York, Toronto, London and Tokyo. Really great brand. The team there led by Doug Bratton and Keith Williams, do a fabulous job. They have a great NAV lending business, a great direct lending business.

第 11 頁，Crestline，只是對這家企業進行了簡要概述。該公司於 9 月收購了 180 億美元的資產管理規模，成立於 1997 年，總部位於沃斯堡，在紐約、多倫多、倫敦和東京設有辦事處。非常棒的品牌。道格布拉頓和基斯威廉斯帶領的團隊做得非常出色。他們的淨值貸款業務非常出色，直接貸款業務也非常出色。

They're really good on the credit side. And we think from a firm standpoint on the capability between Crestline, Sculptor, Rithm, the DNA of the firm and what we have to offer should put us really in a very, very good position with our LPs. From an employee standpoint, there's 175 employees. Average experience of the management team is 20 years-plus, and there's 700-plus investors across all the strategies. On page 12, just gives you a couple of snapshot on the different funds that we have to offer or that Crestline has to offer the investment professionals associated with them.

他們的信貸服務真的很好。我們認為，從公司的角度來看，Crestline、Sculptor、Rithm 之間的實力，公司的 DNA 以及我們所能提供的服務，應該能讓我們在有限合夥人面前處於非常非常有利的地位。從員工人數來看，共有 175 名員工。管理團隊的平均經驗超過 20 年，所有策略的投資人超過 700 人。第 12 頁只是簡要介紹了我們或 Crestline 向與其相關的投資專業人士提供的不同基金。

The thing I mentioned in my opening remarks, we are now in the insurance and reinsurance business. That is a business that we intend to grow over time. Obviously, very, very competitive. But now that we have a licensed entity, we're super excited about where we could go with that. Page 13, Sculptor.

正如我在開場白中提到的，我們現在從事保險和再保險業務。這是一項我們計劃逐步發展壯大的業務。顯然，競爭非常非常激烈。但現在我們有了合法的實體，我們對未來的發展方向感到非常興奮。第 13 頁，雕塑家。

This is our snapshot that we put in each quarter. Results have been great. Team is doing great. Real estate guys, guys and gals recently raised north of $4 billion in their latest fund, very well-received brand there in the markets with, again, great results and leading with performance first rather than just AUM growth. Page 15, we talk about the Paramount deal.

這是我們每季都會發布的快照。結果非常好。團隊表現出色。房地產界的男女最近在他們最新的基金中籌集了超過 40 億美元，該品牌在市場上廣受歡迎，再次取得了巨大的成功，並且始終將業績放在首位，而不是僅僅追求資產管理規模的增長。第 15 頁，我們討論了派拉蒙的交易。

The rationale for us here is pretty simple. One is, I think we're really good at developing a thesis or a theory around an investment strategy in a dislocated market. If we start with that, then when you have a Board that announces a process to sell a company that usually the way that we believe or we think about it, it creates an opportunity for us to have a hard look at that company. When you look at the job that the Paramount team has done and the portfolio of assets that they have assembled, our belief is the so-called return to office. And you could actually poke holes at that a little bit because when you look at New York, it's 90%-plus leased up.

我們這樣做的理由很簡單。我覺得我們非常擅長在市場動盪的情況下圍繞投資策略制定論點或理論。如果我們從這一點出發，那麼當董事會宣佈出售公司的流程時，通常我們認為或認為，這會給我們一個機會，讓我們認真審視這家公司。當你看到派拉蒙團隊所做的工作以及他們所累積的資產組合時，我們相信，所謂的「重返辦公室」即將到來。你其實可以稍微質疑一下這個說法，因為看看紐約，那裡的出租率已經超過 90% 了。

So you could say, okay, that office, New York has already returned to office. I mentioned here that between Rithm and our affiliates, we need 100,000 feet. It's really, really hard to find good office at any kind of what I would call reasonable value. So we think about that. San Fran is in the middle of the so-called AI boom.

所以你可以說，好的，紐約辦公室已經恢復辦公室了。我在這裡提到，Rithm 和我們的附屬公司總共需要 100,000 英尺。要找到價格合理的優質辦公室，真的非常非常難。所以我們會考慮這個問題。舊金山正處於所謂的人工智慧熱潮之中。

You're seeing you have a new mayor there. You have a lot of folks coming back to the office. That portfolio is about low 70s from a lease-up perspective. We think we're going to be able to put in some amenities, put in some TI dollars, and we're going to see some really good lease-ups there. And we're seeing that now across all of our -- all the leasing activity.

你看，你們那裡有了一位新市長。有很多員工要回辦公室上班了。從租賃率的角度來看，該投資組合的收益率約為 70% 出頭。我們認為我們可以增加一些配套設施，投入一些裝修資金，並且我們會看到那裡的租賃情況非常好。我們現在在所有租賃活動中都看到了這種情況。

When you look at San Francisco, the demand for tenants right now is roughly 7.8 million square feet, which is the highest ever that we know of. So really excited about this. Buying assets that we think attractive or acquiring a company at an attractive value with great assets then being able to raise third-party capital around that and grow our asset management business is really where we want to go with this. Page 16, just a snapshot of the balance sheet. Pro forma after we do these transactions, you can have a look at that.

以舊金山為例，目前對租戶的需求量約為 780 萬平方英尺，這是我們所知的最高水準。我真的非常興奮。我們真正想要實現的目標是：購買我們認為有吸引力的資產，或以有吸引力的價格收購一家擁有優質資產的公司，然後圍繞這些資產籌集第三方資金，發展我們的資產管理業務。第 16 頁，僅為資產負債表的快照。交易完成後，您可以查看預計的財務報表。

I'm not going to spend time on that. Again, that's on page 16. And now I'll just touch base on Genesis, and then I'll turn it over to Baron, who will talk about Newrez. On Genesis, as I mentioned, $1.2 billion, a record third quarter for the business, new originations yielding roughly 10% of funding, 71 new sponsors. When you look at the company year over year, our outstanding commitments have grown by 51% quarter -- year over year in the third quarter.

我不會在那件事上浪費時間。再說一遍，那在第16頁。現在我簡單介紹一下 Genesis，然後把麥克風交給 Baron，讓他來談談 Newrez。關於 Genesis，正如我之前提到的，該公司第三季融資額達到 12 億美元，創歷史新高，新發放的貸款約佔融資總額的 10%，新增 71 位贊助商。從公司去年同期來看，第三季未履行承諾的金額年增了 51%。

Funded volume up 60%, sponsor growth up a little less than 50%. And from a delinquency perspective, as I mentioned earlier, credit first, total portfolio has only 4% that are 60 days-plus. Just keep in mind, we do service our own assets. I think that is a huge edge, whether it be an ABF or anything else that we do. And for the most part there, we're able to control an outcome and work with borrowers where we have some brand recognition.

資助金額成長 60%，贊助商成長略低於 50%。從違約的角度來看，正如我之前提到的，信用至上，整個投資組合中只有 4% 的貸款逾期超過 60 天。請記住，我們負責維護我們自己的資產。我認為這是一個巨大的優勢，無論是 ABF 還是我們做的任何其他事情。而且在大多數情況下，我們能夠控制結果，並與那些我們擁有一定品牌知名度的借款人合作。

When you look at page 19, we just talk about a differentiated model versus so-called other peers in the business between construction, bridge and renovation. The business is led by Clint Arrowsmith and Clint is -- his background is really a bank credit guy, and he's -- and Clint and Joe and the team have done a great job there. So real excited about where we sit. I'm going to turn it over to Baron now, who's going to talk about the mortgage company, and then we'll open it up for Q&A.

當你翻到第 19 頁時，我們只是在討論一種與建築、橋樑和翻新行業中所謂的其他同行不同的差異化模式。這家公司由克林特·阿羅史密斯領導，克林特的背景其實是銀行信貸的專家，他和喬以及他們的團隊在那裡做得非常出色。對我們的排名感到非常興奮。現在我將把發言權交給巴倫，他將談論抵押貸款公司的情況，然後我們將進入問答環節。

Okay. Thank you, Michael. Good morning to everybody. Just turning to slide 21. Another great quarter for our platform as we execute on our 2025 growth strategy, significant gains in recapture, non-agency originations, expansion of our client franchise and as Michael mentioned, exciting market-leading developments in our ReziAI stack.

好的。謝謝你，麥可。大家早安。翻到第21張幻燈片。對於我們的平台而言，又是一個精彩的季度，我們執行了 2025 年成長策略，在客戶回收、非代理業務拓展、客戶群擴張等方面取得了顯著進展，正如 Michael 所提到的，我們在 ReziAI 技術棧方面也取得了令人興奮的市場領先發展。

Our third quarter '25 pretax income, excluding mark-to-market, was approximately $295 million, which is up 7% quarter over quarter and 20% year over year and delivered a 20% ROE for the quarter, continuing our steady performance. These results continue to show the power of our platform and our ability to drive consistent earnings with the results first ethos. On slide 22, we can also continue to deliver growth through our differentiated multichannel origination strategy that allows us to use capital efficiency efficiently and maximize our returns. The table on the left shows our direct origination production up 32% year over year and with a focus on supporting our homeowners and recapture is outperforming the industry. In our correspondent channel, we were able to increase production and materially improve margins quarter over quarter from 43 basis points to 53 basis points through our co-issue MSR acquisition strategy.

2025 年第三季稅前收入（不包括按市值計價）約為 2.95 億美元，環比增長 7%，同比增長 20%，該季度淨資產收益率為 20%，延續了我們穩定的業績。這些結果持續展現了我們平台的強大實力，以及我們秉持結果至上的理念，持續創造效益的能力。在第 22 頁，我們還可以透過我們差異化的多通路業務拓展策略繼續實現成長，該策略使我們能夠有效地利用資本效率並最大限度地提高我們的回報。左側表格顯示，我們的直接貸款發放量年增 32%，我們專注於支持房主，回收率也高於行業平均水平。在我們的代理商通路中，我們透過共同發行MSR收購策略，實現了產量的增加，且利潤率也從季度初的43個基點大幅提高到季度初的53個基點。

And our product expansion fueled growth in non-agency assets, which are forecasted to be up approximately 120% year over year. Moving to slide 24 and with the recent drop in rates, our origination business finished the quarter with our biggest month in lock volume since early 2022 and has already surpassed this month in October. But even with increased production, our technology is driving increased underwriting capacity and improved turn times. On margins, our weighted average margins dropped to 114 basis points, which is due to channel mix and a significant increase in government streamline refinances that have a lower margin. And while our market competition continues to drive margin pressures, our disciplined focus remains on profitable growth with an eye for market opportunities.

我們的產品擴張推動了非代理資產的成長，預計將年增約 120%。翻到第 24 張幻燈片，隨著最近利率的下降，我們的貸款發放業務在本季度結束時實現了自 2022 年初以來最大的鎖定量，並且在 10 月份已經超過了本月。即使產量增加，我們的技術也正在推動承保能力的提高和周轉時間的縮短。在利潤率方面，我們的加權平均利潤率下降至 114 個基點，這是由於通路組合的變化以及利潤率較低的政府簡化再融資業務的大幅增加所致。儘管市場競爭持續給利潤率帶來壓力，但我們始終專注於獲利成長，並密切關注市場機會。

As Michael said, performance first lead with results. Turning to slide 24. We continue to deepen our connection to our 4 million-plus customers with digital and brand investments driving our momentum and recapture. We have seen wins in increased digital application leads, better conversions through our ReziChat and our newest tool, ReziAssist, powering loan officer call automation and coaching. Customer retention remains a top growth strategy for Newrez, and we're committed to delivering exceptional customer experience and a broad suite of products that differentiate our platform versus our competition.

正如麥可所說，績效至上，結果為先。翻到第24張投影片。我們不斷加深與 400 多萬客戶的聯繫，透過數位化和品牌投資推動發展動能和客戶挽回。我們已經看到，透過我們的 ReziChat 和最新工具 ReziAssist，數位申請線索增加，轉換率提高，該工具支援貸款專員電話自動化和指導。客戶留存仍然是 Newrez 的首要成長策略，我們致力於提供卓越的客戶體驗和廣泛的產品組合，使我們的平台與競爭對手區分開來。

On slide 25, our servicing business continues to perform well with $260 million of pretax income, which is up 11% year over year. Our special servicing platform is the best in the business, and we continue to gain market share as shown by increases in our third-party UPB, which is up 4%. We're also excited about a new partnership with Wells Fargo, which validates our non-agency servicing leadership in the industry. Performance across the servicing platform is also driven by our operational efficiency and our expansion of our ReziAI platform continues to deliver cost leadership at a fully loaded $140 cost per loan. I continue to believe our business is as best positioned as it has ever been, and I look forward to sharing the next chapter of the Newrez growth story with all of you.

在第 25 張投影片中，我們的服務業務持續表現良好，稅前收入為 2.6 億美元，較去年同期成長 11%。我們的專用服務平台是業界最好的，而且我們的市場份額也在不斷增長，第三方未支付業務量 (UPB) 增長了 4%，這表明我們的市場份額持續擴大。我們也很高興與富國銀行建立新的合作夥伴關係，這證明了我們在非代理服務領域的行業領先地位。服務平台的整體表現也得益於我們的營運效率，而我們 ReziAI 平台的擴展則持續提供成本領先優勢，每筆貸款的完全成本僅為 140 美元。我仍然相信，我們公司目前處於前所未有的最佳發展階段，我期待與大家分享 Newrez 發展故事的下一個篇章。

Thank you. Back to you, Michael.

謝謝。邁克爾，該你了。

Thanks, Baron. Just real quick on page 27, then we'll open up for Q&A. When you look at the investment business and the investment portfolio, obviously, we always have a lot of things going on here at Rithm. During the quarter, as I mentioned earlier, we put out -- we did about $2.6 billion in investing in non-QM loans and RTL loans. These two segments, when you think about the so-called ABF world and whether it be us marketing ABF funds and other folks marketing ABF funds, these are two of the hottest products where -- what LPs want to get access to.

謝謝，男爵。簡單看第 27 頁，然後我們進入問答環節。當你審視投資業務和投資組合時，很顯然，在 Rithm，我們總是有很多事情在進行。正如我之前提到的，本季我們投入了約 26 億美元用於非合格抵押貸款和 RTL 貸款。當你想到所謂的 ABF 世界，無論是我們還是其他人在行銷 ABF 基金時，這兩個部分都是最熱門的產品——LP 想要獲得的產品。

The fact that we could actually manufacture these products, we service these products. And when you look at the overall yields and returns on these assets is an area for us that we believe we're going to continue to grow. So I point that out from the Genesis side, I pointed out from the Newrez side. But overall, investment portfolio, a very good quarter. The firm overall had a really good quarter.

我們不僅能夠生產這些產品，還能為這些產品提供售後服務。從整體收益率和回報來看，我們認為這些資產是我們可以繼續成長的領域。所以我從 Genesis 的角度指出了這一點，我從 Newrez 的角度指出了這一點。但總體而言，投資組合本季表現非常出色。公司本季整體業績非常出色。

And with that, I'll turn it back to the operator for Q&A.

接下來，我將把問題交還給接線員進行問答。

(Operator Instructions) Crispin Love, Piper Sandler.

（操作說明）克里斯平·洛夫，派珀·桑德勒。

Just first, there's been a pretty wide divergence in share price between you and some of the originator servicer peers out there. It doesn't make up a whole ton of sense when you look at the sum of the parts that you lay out. So wondering if you could provide an update on the broader strategic vision and what time lines that could be, whether it's a Newrez spin, the REIT, anything with the asset manager. Just curious what's your focus? And then what are the key hurdles you need to get past to drive some of those changes?

首先，您與一些貸款服務同業之間的股價存在相當大的差異。當你仔細分析你列出的各個部分時，你會發現這其實並沒有什麼道理。所以我想知道您能否提供一下關於更廣泛的戰略願景以及可能的時間表的最新信息，無論是 Newrez 分拆、REIT，還是與資產管理公司相關的任何事宜。我只是好奇你的關注點是什麼？那麼，要推動這些變革，你需要克服哪些關鍵障礙呢？

Thanks, Crispin. I mean what I would say in our share price, and we say this quarter over quarter, I believe that fundamentally, when you look at the so-called sum of the parts that we are extremely attractive from a value standpoint. I think when we announced the Paramount deal and we did our Paramount call, I believe the stock traded towards $12.5. And then after that, I think the market thought we were going to come back and we rebooted our ATM. We did a pref offering, and I think the market thought we were going to raise equity.

謝謝你，克里斯平。我的意思是，就我們的股價而言，正如我們本季所言，我相信從根本上講，當你審視所謂的各部分之和時，從價值的角度來看，我們極具吸引力。我認為，當我們宣布與派拉蒙的交易並召開派拉蒙電話會議時，股價一度接近 12.5 美元。在那之後，我認為市場認為我們會重振旗鼓，我們也重新啟動了我們的「提款機」。我們發行了優先股，我認為市場以為我們會籌集普通股。

So when I look at the stock price today in and around $11, and I think it's extremely attractive, but that's just my thoughts. Being that we're really clear, we're not raising equity around this transaction for these assets. Nick went through the balance sheet. We'll end up with about $1.3 billion of cash and liquidity to the extent that we funded both of these on balance sheet, it's likely we will. And then we're in a ton of conversations, what I would say, with LPs and our asset management business continues to grow.

所以，當我看到今天的股價在 11 美元左右時，我認為這非常有吸引力，但這只是我個人的想法。我們已經非常明確地表示，我們不會圍繞這些資產的交易籌集股權。尼克仔細查看了資產負債表。如果我們在資產負債表上為這兩項都提供了資金，那麼我們最終將擁有約 13 億美元的現金和流動性，很有可能如此。然後，我們與有限合夥人進行了大量的對話，我想說的是，我們的資產管理業務持續成長。

We need to drive more, quite frankly, more FRE through our pipes to get revalued. That's something that we're very focused on. We think that the Paramount deal will help towards that a little bit. I mentioned that we have an ABF fund that will close -- most likely have a first close in the fourth quarter here on one of the wealth management platforms. Crestline, the Crestline addition that will drive more FRE to the platform.

坦白說，我們需要讓更多的燃油通過我們的管道，才能獲得重新估值。這是我們非常關注的事情。我們認為派拉蒙的交易會對此有所幫助。我提到過，我們有一個 ABF 基金即將完成募集——很可能在第四季透過某個財富管理平台完成首次募集。Crestline，Crestline 的加入將為該平台帶來更多 FRE。

Sculptor is doing well. So I think all these things are going to help contribute. As you think about spins, sells, what have you, the mortgage company alone, when you think about it, if there's what, $5.5 billion of capital and that trades at 1.5 to 2 times, you have 550 million shares, that gets you to kind of a mid- to upper teens stock price alone. So part of our thesis also is as we drive more -- as we make more money as an organization, we're in the build mode. And unfortunately, you don't get credit for the build mode than you do for, just saying, okay, the mortgage company, we're going to take it public.

雕塑家一切順利。所以我認為所有這些因素都會有所幫助。當你考慮分拆、出售等等，單就抵押貸款公司而言，想想看，如果它有 55 億美元的資本，市盈率在 1.5 到 2 倍之間，那麼它就有 5.5 億股股票，單憑這一點就能使股價達到十幾到十幾的水平。因此，我們的部分論點也是，隨著我們投入更多資金——隨著我們作為一個組織賺的錢越來越多，我們就進入了建立模式。遺憾的是，你不會因為建造模式而獲得任何讚譽，你只需要說，好吧，抵押貸款公司，我們要把它上市。

It's going to trade at 1.5 to 2 times book, and that's a $17 or $18 stock price. I think we need to grow asset management business. We need to grow FRE. Once we do that, we could think about spins or taking the mortgage company public. It's something that we think about all the time.

它的本益比將達到 1.5 到 2 倍，也就是每股 17 或 18 美元。我認為我們需要發展資產管理業務。我們需要發展FRE。一旦我們做到這一點，我們就可以考慮分拆或讓抵押貸款公司上市。這是我們一直在思考的問題。

From a REIT perspective, and I've used this example before, when you look at, for example, Blackstone, right, they have their C-corp. They've dropped their REIT down below. They have funds, et cetera. We'd like to do something like that, but I think we need to grow a little bit more on the asset management side first, thus the two acquisitions in the quarter.

從 REIT 的角度來看，我以前也舉過這個例子，例如，看看黑石集團，對吧，他們有自己的 C 型公司。他們把他們的房地產投資信託基金（REIT）的價格降到了下面。他們有資金等等。我們想做類似的事情，但我認為我們首先需要在資產管理方面再發展壯大一些，因此本季進行了兩項收購。

Great. And then just on the Paramount transaction, can you share how much third-party capital you've been able to raise there or just how conversations have been going? I believe you said originally, you'd fund it with $300 million to $500 million in cash at the Rithm level and then the rest from co-investors. So curious on progress there. And then are you not able to bring in capital until after the closing of the deal?

偉大的。那麼，關於派拉蒙的交易，您能否透露一下您已經籌集了多少第三方資金，或者雙方的洽談進展如何？我相信你最初說過，你會以 Rithm 的名義投入 3 億至 5 億美元現金，其餘部分則由聯合投資者提供。非常好奇那邊的進展。那麼，你們是否必須在交易完成後才能引入資金？

I thought I saw something like that in the presentation, but just curious on an update.

我好像在簡報裡看過類似的內容，但還是想了解最新情況。

So on that deal, we went out to say that we'll put in $300 million to $500 million of our own equity. I think the way that we expect that to be, it will be roughly -- I think it's going to be roughly $300 million from Rithm, possibly $50 million from RPT, which is our other externally managed REIT. The other, call it, $950 million or $1 billion were raised from third parties. We can raise all that money prior to close depending upon how much economics do we want to give away beforehand. I mean it's just that simple.

所以，在那筆交易中，我們對外宣布，我們將投入 3 億至 5 億美元的自有資金。我認為以我們預期的情況來看，Rithm 大概會出資 3 億美元，RPT（我們另一家外部管理的 REIT）可能會出資 5,000 萬美元。其餘的，姑且稱之為9.5億美元或10億美元，是從第三方籌集的。我們可以在交易完成前籌集所有這些資金，這取決於我們願意事先讓出多少經濟利益。我的意思是，事情就是這麼簡單。

The money is there. We've had a number of conversations with folks that want to give us the money now. What we're trying to do is really build our asset management business. We did set up from a liquidity standpoint prior to this acquisition and prior to Crestline to make sure that there is enough cash and liquidity on balance sheet. But just to be clear, if we want to fund this thing all with third parties now, we can do that.

錢是有的。我們已經和一些願意現在就給​​我們錢的人談過了。我們正在努力打造真正的資產管理業務。在收購 Crestline 之前，我們已經從流動性角度進行了安排，以確保資產負債表上有足夠的現金和流動性。但需要明確的是，如果我們現在想完全依靠第三方資金來資助這個項目，我們也可以這樣做。

It's just a question of what do the economics look like for Rithm and our shareholders.

這只是Rithm及其股東的經濟效益如何的問題。

Bose George, KBW.

博斯·喬治，KBW。

Actually, a question on the Ginnie Mae streamline refis where you noted that took the gain on sale margin down. Are those loans just cheaper to produce as well? Just -- so the economics are similar, it's just that the top line gain on sale margin is different?

實際上，關於 Ginnie Mae 的精簡版再融資，您提到這降低了銷售利潤率，這是一個問題。這些貸款的生產成本也更低嗎？所以——經濟原理類似，只是銷售利潤率的提升幅度不同？

Yes. Yes. The answer to that is yes. They are definitely cheaper to produce, and that's the best way. They're also highly competitive as well, but they're cheaper to produce.

是的。是的。答案是肯定的。它們的生產成本肯定更低，這是最好的方法。它們也極具競爭力，而且生產成本更低。

Okay. Great. And then actually switching to RPT. Given where that's trading, can you just discuss some of the options there for potentially growing that business? Could we see sort of an acquisition or a merger?

好的。偉大的。然後實際上切換到了RPT。鑑於該公司目前的交易情況，您能否探討一下有哪些方案可以幫助該公司實現業務成長？我們是否會看到某種形式的收購或合併？

Just curious what kinds of things you're thinking about there?

我只是好奇你在那邊想些什麼？

So on RPT, we have earnings tomorrow. So I mean, here's the way we think about it. It's a capital vehicle. The stock is -- again, it trades extremely trades poorly. While saying that, we got to give investors a reason to want to own the equity is what I would say.

所以，RPT明天將公佈財報。所以我的意思是，我們是這樣看待這個問題的。它是一種資本工具。這支股票的交易情況——再說一遍，它的交易情況非常糟糕。話雖如此，我們還是得給投資人一個想要持有股權的理由，這就是我想說的。

So when we look at this company, we are going to try to grow it. We're looking at direct lending options and things like that. To the extent that we don't, at some point, we'll likely tender for the shares and just clean up the vehicle. I think for now, we want to give it a good go. This is how BXMT has grown.

所以當我們審視這家公司時，我們會努力讓它成長。我們正在研究直接貸款方案等等。如果最終我們無法做到這一點，那麼在某個時候，我們可能會收購這些股份，並清理該實體。我認為目前我們應該全力以赴。BXMT就是這樣發展起來的。

This is how we've grown things during our Fortress days. But to the extent that we can't grow it because for whatever reasons, we'll likely tender for the shares.

這就是我們在堡壘時代種植作物的方式。但如果由於某些原因我們無法成長，我們可能會回購股份。

Okay. Great. And actually, just going back to the earlier question, just on strategic actions. The partial listing of Newrez as opposed to a spin, but just a small, whatever, 15% listing for a mark-to-market. Just given that you could do that sooner versus the other strategic actions, which probably take time to sort of build out the AUM more, I mean, is that something worth sort of reconsidering or revisiting?

好的。偉大的。實際上，回到之前的問題，關於戰略行動。Newrez 部分上市，而非分拆上市，但只是少量上市，約佔 15%，以市值計價。考慮到你可以比其他策略行動更快地做到這一點（其他策略行動可能需要時間來逐步擴大資產管理規模），我的意思是，這是否值得重新考慮或重新審視？

Yes. We explore that every day. So that is something that we are exploring.

是的。我們每天都在探索這個問題。這是我們正在探索的方向。

Eric Hagen, BTIG.

Eric Hagen，BTIG。

Fleshing out some of this other conversation here. We're looking at slide 6 again. Is the expectation to raise the third-party capital for Paramount and pay down that $1.1 billion that you drew on the financing line? Or does this pro forma cash position assume that you've raised the third-party capital to fund that?

這裡進一步闡述之前的一些對話。我們現在再來看第6張投影片。是否期望為派拉蒙籌集第三方資金，並償還您從融資額度中提取的 11 億美元？或者說，這份模擬現金狀況報告是否假設您已經籌集到第三方資金來為此提供資金？

Yes. We will not -- I mean, if -- once we raise the third party -- we haven't drawn on the money because the deal hasn't closed yet. You still got to get shareholder approval. Once we do that, once we do close, to the extent that we do draw down, we'll pay that off once we raise the money. The money -- there's a ton of money for people that want to be part of this, whether that be LPs and/or, as I pointed out to Crispin, LPs and/or what I would call peers and partners in the business.

是的。我們不會——我的意思是，如果——一旦我們籌集到第三方資金——我們還沒有動用這筆資金，因為交易還沒有完成。你還需要獲得股東批准。一旦我們完成那一步，一旦我們完成交易，在我們提取資金的範圍內，我們將在籌集到資金後償還這部分款項。資金方面——對於想要參與其中的人來說，有很多資金可供利用，無論是有限合夥人，還是像我向克里斯平指出的那樣，有限合夥人，或者我稱之為業內同行和合作夥伴的人。

It's just -- the question for us is maximizing economics. But from a brand standpoint, I would tell you that we're having anywhere from 5 to 10 conversations minimum a day with LPs. So not only doing the deal and not everybody wants to be in office, quite frankly, because a lot of folks have gotten smoked going in right after COVID or just before COVID. But the gist of it is the amount of conversations we're having as an organization with LPs and the amount of capital that's out there and real discussions we've had, where we feel really good about where we are on this one.

對我們來說，問題在於如何實現經濟效益最大化。但從品牌角度來看，我可以告訴你，我們每天至少與 LP 進行 5 到 10 次對話。所以，不僅要達成協議，坦白說，並非每個人都想當官，因為很多人在新冠疫情爆發前後都遭遇了慘敗。但關鍵在於，我們作為一個組織與有限合夥人進行了大量的對話，以及市場上的資金規模和我們進行的真正討論，我們對目前的情況感到非常滿意。

Got you. That's helpful. I mean there's a lot of attention right now on underwriting, even some fraud with these consumer lenders, regional banks and such. I mean do you see that driving changes in the market? I mean your entire business effectively is like underwriting focused at this point.

抓到你了。那很有幫助。我的意思是，現在大家都很關注貸款承銷，甚至還注意到一些消費貸款機構、地區性銀行等的詐欺行為。我的意思是，你認為這會推動市場變化嗎？我的意思是，你現在的整個業務實際上就像是以承保為重點一樣。

I mean we wouldn't expect any bad underwriting in your portfolio, but do you see that having a spillover effect in any way to the rest of the market?

我的意思是，我們預計您的投資組合中不會出現任何不良承保情況，但您認為這會對市場其他部分產生任何外溢效應嗎？

Yes. I think it's something that when we talk about our ABF funds, it is a question we get asked all the time. When you look at First Brands or you look at Tricolor, what really happened there. One thing that's different about Rithm versus other folks, we have what, 10,000 employees across the firm. The mortgage company has between employees and consultants, probably 10,000 people alone, quite frankly.

是的。我認為，當我們談到我們的 ABF 基金時，這是一個我們經常被問到的問題。當你審視 First Brands 或 Tricolor 時，你會思考那裡究竟發生了什麼事。Rithm 與其他公司不同的一點是，我們公司有 10,000 名員工。坦白說，這家抵押貸款公司光員工和顧問就可能有10000人。

You look at Genesis, there's a couple of hundred people there. We're underwriting first, and we don't just go out and buy pools of assets unless like I pointed out, many times where we have the ability to hopefully control an outcome, and that outcome is driven through our underwriting and servicing business, and that makes a big, big difference. While saying that, ABF kind of LPs are -- they want to know what happened with First Brands. They want to know what happened with Tricolor. Tricolor was classic fraud, right?

你看看創世紀教堂，那裡有幾百人。我們首先進行承保，我們不會隨意購買資產池，除非像我指出的那樣，很多時候我們有能力控制結果，而這個結果是由我們的承保和服務業務驅動的，這會產生巨大的影響。話雖如此，ABF 這類 LP 想知道 First Brands 發生了什麼事。他們想知道 Tricolor 到底發生了什麼事。三色旗是典型的騙局，對吧？

They pledge assets twice. You look at First Brands, it's a liquidity issue, but I'm sure there's some other stuff that's going on there. And so -- but for us, underwriting first. We've seen these kind of events happen. I don't think they're systemic, quite frankly, for the broader world or market, but we have to keep our eyes and ears open here and lead with underwriting first.

他們兩次抵押資產。你看First Brands，它遇到了流動性問題，但我相信那裡還有其他一些問題。所以——但對我們來說，首先是承保。我們已經看過這類事件發生。坦白說，我認為它們對整個世界或市場而言並非系統性的，但我們必須保持警惕，首先要做好承保工作。

Good stuff. One more, if I may. The falloff in interest income from the investment portfolio quarter over quarter, it looks like it went from $82 million to $52 million. What was the driver of that?

好東西。如果可以的話，我再問一個問題。投資組合的利息收入環比下降，似乎從 8,200 萬美元降至 5,200 萬美元。是什麼原因導致這種情況發生？

Sure. So Eric, we held lower agency balances. And in addition, we had a retrospective adjustment in interest income that was offset in unrealized gains, losses. So when you look at that line, you will see the pickup.

當然。所以埃里克，我們持有較低的代理資產餘額。此外，我們對利息收入進行了追溯調整，這在未實現的損益中得到了抵銷。所以當你看那條線的時候，你會看到拾音器。

Jason Weaver, JonesTrading.

Jason Weaver，JonesTrading。

For the initial ABF fund you're targeting with the wealth management platform, can you talk about the initial size you're targeting for that as well as the expected life of that vehicle?

對於您計劃透過財富管理平台設立的初始 ABF 基金，您能否談談您計劃的初始​​規模以及該基金的預期存續期？

I don't think -- I mean, here's what I would say. From an asset, I don't think we can talk about -- we can't talk about the marketing of the so-called fund. What I would tell you is we do have a couple of things that we're working on. We mentioned that so-called fund. Are we allowed to talk about this?

我不認為——我的意思是，我會這麼說。從資產的角度來看，我認為我們不能談論——我們不能談論所謂基金的營銷。我可以告訴你的是，我們確實有幾件事正在努力推進。我們提到了那個所謂的基金。我們可以談論這件事嗎？

I'm looking at counsel. Okay. So the size is likely going to be upwards of [$500 million] and then the average duration of something like that. It's -- think about the typical products that we produce. I mentioned earlier, non-QM and RTL are kind of the in flavor as people like the diversified risk there, those average cash flows think of something in the kind of the three-year area.

我正在諮詢律師。好的。因此，專案規模可能會超過 5 億美元，然後是類似專案的平均持續時間。想想我們生產的典型產品。我之前提到過，非QM和RTL目前比較流行，因為人們喜歡它們帶來的分散風險，這些平均現金流指的是三年左右的時間範圍。

And then we -- I mentioned earlier, and it's not just us, but there's a lot of managers like us that are out there with different ABF funds. And it's -- when you think about the product suite there, it could be ABS, it could be mortgage, it could be CLO type, it could be -- you'll have aviation finance, all kinds of different things that can go into these different buckets.

然後我們——我之前提到過，而且不只是我們，還有很多像我們這樣的基金經理人管理著不同的 ABF 基金。而且——當你想到那裡的產品組合時，它可以是資產支持證券 (ABS)、抵押貸款、擔保貸款憑證 (CLO) 等等——你還會想到航空金融，各種不同的東西都可以歸入這些不同的類別。

All right. That's helpful. And then next, as it pertains to the dividend, you've been covering for, I don't know how long, five years as far back as I remember. How do you think about the payout policy right now, whether you can see it expanding given some possible capital needs for integrating these acquisitions or building more of a buffer against market headwinds?

好的。那很有幫助。接下來，關於股利問題，你們已經處理了很久，我不知道多久了，我記得至少有五年了。您如何看待目前的派息政策？考慮到整合這些收購可能需要一些資金，或者需要建立更多緩衝以應對市場不利因素，您是否認為派息政策會擴大？

What I would say from -- obviously, it's a Board decision. I would say pretty definitively from the team here inside the walls of Rithm that we're not going to raise our dividend. Quite frankly, if we had our druthers, if you think about it, we're paying out something between, call it, $600 million a year if you reinvested that capital at a 15% or 20%. We mentioned the company generated an 18% ROE. If we redeployed the capital there, it's going to be highly accretive from an earnings standpoint, and that would enable the stock to grow.

我想說的是——顯然，這是董事會的決定。我可以非常明確地代表 Rithm 團隊表示，我們不會提高股息。坦白說，如果我們能做主，仔細想想，如果我們把這筆資金以 15% 或 20% 的收益率再投資，我們每年要支付約 6 億美元。我們提到該公司實現了 18% 的淨資產收益率。如果我們把資金重新投入到那裡，從獲利的角度來看，這將極大地增加收益，從而使股價上漲。

So I would say definitively, there's no desire to increase the dividend at this point. If we go the other way, we would.

因此我可以明確地說，目前沒有增加股利的意願。如果我們反其道而行之，就會如此。

Trevor Cranston, Citizens JMP.

Trevor Cranston，Citizens JMP。

Another question on the kind of valuation of the company and closing the gap to the sum of the parts level. Can you talk about how you guys think about share buybacks as a tool to sort of help bridge that gap or if the focus is really just more so on kind of continuing to grow and increase revenue streams to get there?

另一個問題是關於公司估值的類型以及如何縮小與分部估值水準之間的差距。您能否談談你們如何看待股票回購這種彌合差距的工具，還是說你們的重點更多地放在繼續增長和增加收入來源上以實現目標？

So share buybacks, people talk about share buybacks. I think our path is going to be continued growth as long as we think we can deploy capital at, call it, 15% to 20% returns. I would say while we have all kinds of policies in place, whether they be share buybacks, ATMs, et cetera, based on the two acquisitions, I would assume that we're not going to be doing any share buybacks here. I think the question around a potential IPO of the mortgage company is always something that we wrestle with. So at some point, if that's something we do, that would potentially raise a little bit of capital for us.

所以，人們都在談論股票回購。我認為，只要我們認為能夠以 15% 到 20% 的回報率進行資本部署，我們的發展道路就會持續成長。我想說，雖然我們制定了各種政策，包括股票回購、ATM等等，但根據這兩項收購來看，我認為我們不會在這裡進行任何股票回購。我認為，關於這家抵押貸款公司是否可能進行首次公開發行（IPO）的問題，一直是我們糾結的問題。所以，如果將來我們真的這麼做了，那可能會為我們籌集一些資金。

But there's no -- I would say, right now, and this is, again, my view, we're not going to be doing share buybacks. We're funding $1 billion-something acquisition on Paramount and Crestline. And as we continue to grow earnings and grow FRE, I think you're going to see a huge reval of the company. That's what we're all playing for.

但是，就目前而言，我認為（這再次聲明，這是我的觀點），我們不會進行股票回購。我們正在出資10億美元左右收購派拉蒙和克雷斯特萊恩。隨著我們獲利和FRE的持續成長，我認為你會看到公司價值的大幅提升。這就是我們所有人努力的目標。

Got it. Okay. That's helpful. And then on the Sculptor business, you guys have had a pretty good year of fundraising. I think the number you gave is $4.6 billion so far this year.

知道了。好的。那很有幫助。至於雕塑家事業，你們今年的募款狀況相當不錯。我認為你給出的數字是今年迄今為止的46億美元。

Can you give us an outlook on kind of how you're thinking about fundraising heading into 2026, if you think that kind of pace is sustainable? And just generally, how you think about the organic growth potential of the asset management side over the next year or so?

您能否展望一下您對2026年籌款工作的展望，以及您是否認為目前的籌款速度是可持續的？總的來說，您如何看待未來一年左右資產管理業務的自然成長潛力？

Sure. So when we look at the asset management business, we are going to be making capital investments in people as we continue to grow our, what I would call our capital formation/strategy group. So there'll be some significant investments there. We have -- I'm hopeful over the next kind of 60 days, we have some big announcements there around some personnel. When you look at the growth, the $4.5 billion or so, the Sculptor raised, a large amount of that was in the real estate business.

當然。所以，當我們審視資產管理業務時，我們將對人才進行資本投資，同時不斷發展壯大我們所謂的資本形成/策略團隊。所以那裡會有一些數額龐大的投資。我希望在接下來的60天左右的時間裡，我們能就一些人事問題發布一些重大公告。從成長情況來看，雕塑家籌集的約 45 億美元中，很大一部分都投入了房地產行業。

The underlying performance in like the credit business, the multi-strat business continues to be very, very good. You look at Crestline, their performance continues to be very, very good. When you look at across our firm and you think about Rithm, Sculptor, Crestline, you could assume at some point that the capital formation groups come together and things really start to synergize and we're able to raise a lot more capital. So when I look at a $4.5 billion or $5 billion capital raise for '25, do I think that's repeatable in '26? Absolutely.

與信貸業務一樣，多元化業務的基本面表現依然非常非常好。看看克雷斯特萊恩隊，他們的表現一直都非常非常出色。當你縱觀我們整個公司，想想 Rithm、Sculptor、Crestline，你可能會認為，在某個時候，資本形成團隊會走到一起，真正開始產生協同效應，我們就能籌集到更多的資金。所以，當我看到 2025 年籌集了 45 億美元或 50 億美元的資金時，我認為這在 2026 年可以重現嗎？絕對地。

I mean you look at the bigger all players, and they've done a fabulous job raising tons and tons of capital. There's no reason why we can't surpass the numbers that have been done in '25.

我的意思是，看看那些規模較大的公司，他們在籌集大量資金方面做得非常出色。我們完全有可能超越 2025 年所取得的成績。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Michael Nierenberg for any closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。我謹將會議交還給麥可‧尼倫伯格，請他作總結發言。

Well, thanks for the thoughtful questions. Thanks for listening to us this morning. As I wrap up again, very excited where we sit. From a company perspective, things are going, what I would say, extremely well right now. Earnings, the strength of our earnings continues to be robust, driven by the businesses that we bought or built to get us here.

謝謝您提出的這些很有見地的問題。感謝您今天早上收聽我們的節目。總結一下，我對我們現在所處的位置感到非常興奮。從公司角度來看，目前一切進展得非常順利。在獲利方面，我們的獲利能力依然強勁，這得益於我們收購或創建的業務，而正是這些業務讓我們取得了今天的成就。

Those very same businesses are going to enable us to continue to grow our platform. Obviously, very focused on the asset management business, very focused on getting the proper reval of the company. The mortgage company is something that we always -- we look at and say, do we take it public or not? Quite frankly, it's sometimes it's easier not to be in the public markets as you think about every asset manager talking about going public to private when you look at assets going even into the wealth channels. But overall, things are clicking on all cylinders here for us, and we look forward to updating you throughout the quarter and into next quarter.

正是這些企業將使我們能夠繼續發展壯大我們的平台。顯然，該公司非常專注於資產管理業務，並非常專注於獲得公司應有的估值。抵押貸款公司是我們一直在關注並考慮的事情——我們會審視它，然後問自己，是否要讓它上市？坦白說，有時候不進入公開市場反而更容易，因為每個資產管理公司都在談論從上市轉私有化，甚至把資產轉移到財富管道。但總的來說，我們這裡一切進展順利，我們期待在本季以及下個季度繼續向您報告最新情況。

So thanks again. Have a great weekend.

再次感謝。祝你周末愉快。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議已經結束。感謝各位參加今天的報告會。您現在可以斷開連線了。