Onto Innovation Inc (ONTO) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the Onto Innovation first quarter earnings release conference call. Today's conference is being recorded. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Sidney Ho. Please go ahead.

大家好，歡迎參加 Onto Innovation 第一季財報發布電話會議。今天的會議正在錄製中。現在，我想將會議交給 Sidney Ho。請繼續。

Thank you, Rachel, and good afternoon, everyone. Onto Innovation issued its 2025 first quarter financial results this afternoon shortly after the market closed. If you did not receive a copy of the release, please refer to the company's website where a copy of the release is posted. Joining us on the call today are Michael Plisinski, Chief Executive Officer; and Mark Slicer, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝你，Rachel，大家下午好。Onto Innovation 今天下午股市收盤後不久發布了其 2025 年第一季財務業績。如果您沒有收到該發布的副本，請參閱該公司的網站，其中發布了該發布的副本。今天參加電話會議的有執行長 Michael Plisinski；以及財務長 Mark Slicer。

I'd like to remind you that the statements made by management on this call will contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. Those statements are subject to a range of changes, risks and uncertainties that can cause actual results to vary materially. For more information regarding the risk factors that may impact Onto Innovation's results, I would encourage you to review our earnings release and our SEC filings.

我想提醒您，管理階層在本次電話會議上所作的陳述將包含聯邦證券法所定義的前瞻性陳述。這些聲明受到一系列變更、風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果發生重大差異。有關可能影響 Onto Innovation 業績的風險因素的更多信息，我建議您查看我們的收益報告和 SEC 文件。

Onto Innovation does not undertake the obligation to update these forward-looking statements in light of new information or future events. Today's discussion of our financial results will be presented on a non-GAAP financial basis, unless otherwise specified. As a reminder, a detailed reconciliation between GAAP and non-GAAP results can be found in today's earnings release.

Onto Innovation 不承擔根據新資訊或未來事件更新這些前瞻性聲明的義務。除非另有說明，今天對我們財務業績的討論將以非 GAAP 財務基礎呈現。提醒一下，您可以在今天的收益報告中找到 GAAP 和非 GAAP 結果之間的詳細對帳。

Let me turn the call over to our CEO, Mike Plisinski. Mike?

讓我把電話轉給我們的執行長 Mike Plisinski。麥克風？

Thank you, Sidney. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on our call today. Onto Innovation set another revenue record for the quarter, delivering $267 million in revenue. This growth was driven by expansions in both the advanced nodes and packaging to support growth of AI compute engines and increasing investments in cloud and enterprise servers, both seemingly undampened by market concerns over tariffs.

謝謝你，西德尼。大家下午好，感謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議。Onto Innovation 本季創下了另一項收入記錄，營收達到 2.67 億美元。這一增長是由先進節點和封裝的擴展推動的，以支持人工智慧運算引擎的成長，以及對雲端和企業伺服器的投資增加，而這兩者似乎並未受到市場對關稅的擔憂的影響。

However, the announced tariffs by the Trump administration are impacting Onto Innovation somewhat uniquely because nearly all of our products are manufactured in the United States. Naturally, this negatively impacts our incoming costs due to the Trump administration's tariff policies as well as the cost to export our tools from the potential of retaliatory tariffs imposed by other countries.

然而，川普政府宣布的關稅對 Onto Innovation 的影響有些獨特，因為我們幾乎所有產品都是在美國製造的。當然，這會對我們的成本產生負面影響，因為川普政府的關稅政策以及其他國家可能徵收的報復性關稅會增加我們的工具出口成本。

In response, we're accelerating existing strategic programs to improve business continuity and resiliency by installing manufacturing capability in Asia. Due to the incredible cooperation between our team and Asian manufacturing partners, we expect shipments to begin in the second half of 2025 and to have roughly half our product volume capable of being shipped out of these new facilities by early 2026. We expect to realize margin improvements from this effort in the second half of 2026. Once completed, we'll be significantly more competitive while providing greater levels of certainty to our global customers.

作為回應，我們正在加速現有的戰略計劃，透過在亞洲安裝製造能力來提高業務連續性和彈性。由於我們團隊與亞洲製造合作夥伴之間的出色合作，我們預計將於 2025 年下半年開始發貨，到 2026 年初，大約一半的產品數量能夠從這些新工廠運出。我們預計透過這項努力將在 2026 年下半年實現利潤率的提高。一旦完成，我們的競爭力將顯著增強，同時為全球客戶提供更高水準的確定性。

Now let's review our first quarter business highlights, starting with the advanced nodes. Our metrology business is benefiting from increased process control capital intensity of gate-all-around and memory as well as the performance and cost of ownership advantages that our optical metrology suite is delivering to our customers. This has led to record quarters for our newest products, Iris films metrology and IMPULSE V integrated metrology, while Atlas OCD metrology nearly surpassed the quarterly record set in Q1 of 2022 before we were impacted by US trade policy with China.

現在讓我們回顧一下第一季的業務亮點，從高階節點開始。我們的計量業務受益於環柵和記憶體的製程控制資本強度的提高，以及我們的光學計量套件為客戶提供的性能和擁有成本優勢。這使得我們的最新產品 Iris 薄膜計量和 IMPULSE V 整合計量創下了季度紀錄，而 Atlas OCD 計量幾乎超過了在受到美國對華貿易政策影響之前於 2022 年第一季創下的季度紀錄。

As we anticipated, revenue from our specialty device and advanced packaging markets declined from the record fourth quarter. Recently, a leader in 2.5D packaging for AI commented that the long-term outlook of AI has improved as new AI models are expected to lower barriers to entry and drive greater adoption of compute engines.

正如我們預期的那樣，我們的專業設備和先進封裝市場的收入較創紀錄的第四季有所下降。近日，一位人工智慧2.5D封裝領域的領導者表示，隨著新的人工智慧模型有望降低進入門檻並推動運算引擎的更廣泛應用，人工智慧的長期前景已經改善。

Similarly, HBM device makers are preparing for higher memory content as well as the transition to HBM4 next year. These expanding markets are also driving new tool requirements including greater precision, sensitivity and throughput in order to produce devices with higher yields and lower costs.

同樣，HBM 設備製造商正在為更高的記憶體內容以及明年向 HBM4 的過渡做準備。這些不斷擴大的市場也推動了新的工具需求，包括更高的精度、靈敏度和吞吐量，以便生產產量更高、成本更低的設備。

In response to these new requirements, during the last two quarters, we doubled the performance of our inspection tools, but this did not address 100% of the new needs. So together with our customer, we began accelerating an existing program for a new inspection platform capable of providing significantly better sensitivity and higher performance.

為了滿足這些新要求，在過去兩個季度中，我們將檢測工具的效能提高了一倍，但這並不能完全滿足新的需求。因此，我們與客戶一起開始加速現有計劃，以開發能夠提供更佳靈敏度和更高效能的新檢測平台。

Wafer demos will start this quarter, and we expect to ship evaluation units later this year. Though disappointing in the short term, in the long term, we believe this new technology may also open up opportunities in the front-end macro inspection market we have not previously competed.

晶圓演示將於本季度開始，我們預計將於今年稍後發貨評估單元。雖然短期內令人失望，但從長遠來看，我們相信這項新技術也可能為我們以前從未參與過的前端宏觀檢測市場帶來機會。

Now turning from 2D interconnects to 3D interconnects, we're making steady progress moving through the rigorous process qualification of our 3Di technology. In the first quarter, 3Di bump metrology was selected by two more OSATs for applications where better throughput and repeatability was required. We also shipped additional evaluation units to two leading memory manufacturers in the quarter. Besides bump metrology, the other challenge in future 3D packaging is void detection for hybrid bonding applications.

現在，我們正從 2D 互連轉向 3D 互連，在 3Di 技術嚴格的製程認證方面取得穩步進展。第一季度，又有兩家 OSAT 選擇了 3Di 凸塊計量技術，用於需要更高吞吐量和可重複性的應用。本季我們也向兩家領先的記憶體製造商運送了額外的評估單元。除了凸點計量之外，未來 3D 封裝的另一個挑戰是混合鍵結應用中的空隙檢測。

Our EchoScan system, which is a unique technology being developed for detection of yield-killing voids and bonding interconnects without the need to immerse samples in liquid has demonstrated capability at a Tier 1 customer site on R&D test samples.

我們的 EchoScan 系統是一種獨特的技術，正在開發中，用於檢測影響良率的空隙和鍵合互連，而無需將樣品浸入液體中，該系統已在一級客戶現場的研發測試樣品上證明了其能力。

We are now starting tests on test samples where there -- on production test samples where variation materials and multiple layers will further stress the technology. Currently, no other technology can find voids in these structures at this resolution, which we believe will be critical for yield control and HBM hybrid bonding devices. Further along the adoption curve, we have delivered many of our subsurface defect inspection tools to reduce sources of yield loss from cracks and voids in packaging for 2.5D and emerging hybrid bonding applications. We're also adding customers outside of packaging to support similar needs in MEMS and power applications.

我們現在開始對測試樣品進行測試，在生產測試樣品中，變化的材料和多層將進一步強調該技術。目前，還沒有其他技術能夠以這種解析度在這些結構中找到空隙，我們相信這對於產量控制和HBM混合鍵合設備至關重要。在採用曲線的進一步發展中，我們已交付了許多表面下缺陷檢測工具，以減少 2.5D 和新興混合鍵合應用的封裝中因裂縫和空隙而造成的產量損失。我們也正在增加封裝以外的客戶，以支援 MEMS 和電源應用中的類似需求。

And now I'll turn the call over to Mark to review our financial highlights and provide second quarter guidance.

現在我將把電話轉給馬克，讓他回顧我們的財務亮點並提供第二季的指導。

Thanks, Mike, and good afternoon, everyone. As Mike highlighted, we had another record performance by the Onto team kicking off the year with $267 million in revenue, achieving the midpoint for revenue and at the high end of our EPS guidance range for Q1. First quarter revenue increased 17% versus the prior year, with first quarter EPS increasing 28% versus the prior year. We achieved a record operating cash flow of $92 million due to the continued discipline in all elements of working capital management.

謝謝，麥克，大家下午好。正如 Mike 所強調的，Onto 團隊今年取得了另一個創紀錄的業績，收入達到 2.67 億美元，達到了收入的中點，也達到了第一季每股收益預測範圍的高端。第一季營收較上年同期成長 17%，第一季每股收益較上年同期成長 28%。由於我們持續嚴格執行營運資本管理的各個環節，我們的營運現金流達到了創紀錄的 9,200 萬美元。

Looking at the quarterly revenue by markets. Advanced nodes, which had revenue of $93 million, increased 96% over Q4 and represents 35% of revenue. Specialty devices and advanced packaging decreased 24% from Q4 with quarterly revenue of $129 million and represents 48% of revenue. Software and services with revenue of $44 million decreased 5% compared to Q4, representing 17% of revenue.

查看各市場季度營收。先進節點營收為 9,300 萬美元，較第四季成長 96%，佔總營收的 35%。專用設備和先進封裝較第四季下降 24%，季度營收為 1.29 億美元，佔營收的 48%。軟體和服務收入為 4,400 萬美元，與第四季相比下降 5%，佔營收的 17%。

We achieved 55% gross margin for the first quarter, in line with our guidance range of 54% to 56%, while improving slightly above 50 basis points over Q4. First quarter operating expenses were $70 million, just below the midpoint of our Q1 guidance range of $69 million to $72 million. Our operating income of $76 million was 29% of revenue for the first quarter.

我們第一季的毛利率達到了 55%，符合我們 54% 至 56% 的預期範圍，同時比第四季略有提高 50 個基點以上。第一季的營運費用為 7,000 萬美元，略低於我們第一季指引範圍的中點 6,900 萬美元至 7,200 萬美元。我們的營業收入為 7,600 萬美元，佔第一季營收的 29%。

Now moving to the balance sheet. We ended the first quarter with cash and short-term investments of $851 million. Cash remained relatively flat to Q4 as we executed $75 million of share buybacks within the quarter under our existing $200 million authorization. We achieved operating cash flow of $92 million or 35% of revenue and free cash flow of $84 million or 31% of revenue, converting 100% of our operating income into cash.

現在轉到資產負債表。第一季結束時，我們的現金和短期投資為 8.51 億美元。由於我們在本季按照現有的 2 億美元授權執行了 7,500 萬美元的股票回購，因此現金與第四季相比保持相對穩定。我們實現了 9,200 萬美元的營業現金流，佔收入的 35%，自由現金流為 8,400 萬美元，佔收入的 31%，將 100% 的營業收入轉化為現金。

Inventory ended the quarter at $293 million, up $6 million versus Q4. This increase was primarily due to accelerating targeted inventory receipts within the quarter to minimize potential impact -- tariff impacts. We continue to expect inventory to stay relatively flat for the second quarter and expect to maintain inventory levels at 1.6 to 1.8 turns for 2025.

本季末庫存為 2.93 億美元，比第四季增加了 600 萬美元。這一增長主要歸因於本季加速目標庫存收貨，以盡量減少潛在影響——關稅影響。我們繼續預期第二季庫存將保持相對平穩，並預計 2025 年庫存水準將維持在 1.6 至 1.8 週轉率。

Now turning to our outlook for the second quarter. We currently expect our revenue for the second quarter to be between $240 million and $260 million. We expect gross margins will be 54% to 56%, which includes our current assessment of up to 75 basis points of headwind due to inbound tariffs if we are unable to offset within the quarter. We are actively working to mitigate the tariffs through our supply chain activity or optimization of our strategy to locate manufacturing close to our customers.

現在來談談我們對第二季的展望。我們目前預計第二季的營收將在 2.4 億美元至 2.6 億美元之間。我們預計毛利率將在 54% 至 56% 之間，其中包括我們目前對入境關稅造成的高達 75 個基點的不利因素的評估（如果我們無法在本季度內抵消的話）。我們正在積極努力透過供應鏈活動或優化策略將製造地點設在靠近客戶的地方來降低關稅。

If successful, we would execute to the high end of our guidance range for gross margin, in line with our stated objective of 50 basis point improvement quarter-over-quarter. For operating expenses, we expect to be between $72 million to $75 million as our annual compensation elements occur within the second quarter each year.

如果成功的話，我們將實現毛利率指導範圍的高端，符合我們提出的環比提高 50 個基點的目標。對於營運費用，我們預計在 7,200 萬美元至 7,500 萬美元之間，因為我們的年度薪酬部分發生在每年第二季。

For the full year, we expect our effective tax rate to be between 14% to 16%. We expect our diluted share count for the second quarter to be approximately 49.3 million shares. Based upon these assumptions, we anticipate our non-GAAP earnings for the second quarter to be between $1.21 to $1.35 per share.

我們預計全年有效稅率將在 14% 至 16% 之間。我們預計第二季稀釋股數約為 4,930 萬股。基於這些假設，我們預期第二季非公認會計準則每股收益將介於 1.21 美元至 1.35 美元之間。

And with that, I will turn it back to Mike for additional insights into Q2 and further commentary on 2025. Mike?

說完這些，我將把話題轉回給 Mike，請他提供關於第二季度的更多見解以及對 2025 年的進一步評論。麥克風？

Thank you, Mark. For the second quarter, we anticipate revenue from the advanced node customers to decline moderately due to customers' timing of gate-all-around investments, which we expect to resume in the second half of the year. We expect NAND and DRAM spending to remain steady. This reflects our strong market position, not only in OCD, but also in films and integrated metrology. And in fact, by the second -- by the end of the second quarter, we expect revenue from each of these product families will have already exceeded the full year revenue from 2024.

謝謝你，馬克。對於第二季度，我們預計來自先進節點客戶的收入將適度下降，原因是客戶對全閘極投資的時機選擇，我們預計該投資將在下半年恢復。我們預計 NAND 和 DRAM 支出將保持穩定。這反映了我們強大的市場地位，不僅在 OCD 領域，而且在薄膜和整合計量領域。事實上，到第二季末，我們預計這些產品系列的收入將已經超過 2024 年全年收入。

In the specialty device and advanced packaging markets, we believe revenue will decline slightly. And as we discussed earlier, in AI packaging, our customers are under tremendous pressure to improve factory yield and cycle times, necessitating higher throughputs and more sensitive 2D inspections. We've significantly improved the productivity of our tools. But despite these improvements, some applications were not addressed by our platform. However, they will be targeted by our next-generation platform, which as mentioned, has the added benefit of potentially opening new opportunities in the front end.

在專用設備和先進封裝市場，我們認為收入將略有下降。正如我們之前所討論的，在人工智慧封裝方面，我們的客戶面臨著提高工廠產量和週期時間的巨大壓力，這需要更高的吞吐量和更靈敏的二維檢測。我們顯著提高了工具的生產力。但儘管有這些改進，我們的平台仍未解決某些應用問題。然而，他們將成為我們下一代平台的目標客戶，正如前面所提到的，該平台還具有在前端開闢新機會的額外好處。

As our customers' expansion plans and tool allocations have become clear in the last quarter, we have some clarity into the second half of the year, which we lacked previously. For advanced nodes, we remain confident in broad-based expansions, although we anticipate a meaningful pause in Q3 from memory, making Q3 a low point for the year. We'll take full advantage of this pause to allow our team to focus on the successful manufacturing ramp in Asia as previously described.

由於我們客戶的擴張計劃和工具分配在上個季度變得清晰起來，我們對下半年的情況有了一些清晰的了解，而這是我們以前所缺乏的。對於高級節點，我們仍然對廣泛的擴展充滿信心，儘管我們預計第三季會出現明顯的停頓，從而使第三季度成為今年的低谷。我們將充分利用這次暫停，讓我們的團隊專注於先前描述的亞洲製造業的成功成長。

We expect revenue growth to resume in the fourth quarter. Now looking beyond 2025, advances in AI and AI applications at the edge through lighter advanced models could lead to an entirely new wave of smarter, more integrated mobile devices and cloud applications, fundamentally changing how we interface with our environment. Investments in AI servers and cloud infrastructure, including new memory and gate-all-around transistors will play a crucial role in this transformation. And we expect our new product innovations for 2D inspection, 3D metrology and optical metrology will be critical to enabling these new devices.

我們預計第四季度營收將恢復成長。展望2025年後，透過更輕量級的先進模型，人工智慧和邊緣人工智慧應用的進步可能會帶來一波全新的更智慧、更整合的行動裝置和雲端應用浪潮，從根本上改變我們與環境的互動方式。對人工智慧伺服器和雲端基礎設施的投資，包括新記憶體和環柵晶體管，將在這一轉變中發揮關鍵作用。我們預計，我們在二維檢測、三維計量和光學計量方面的新產品創新對於實現這些新設備至關重要。

And that concludes our prepared remarks. Rachel, please open the call for questions from our covering analysts.

我們的準備好的演講到此結束。瑞秋，請開始我們的報道分析師的提問環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Craig Ellis, B. Riley Securities.

克雷格·艾利斯 (Craig Ellis)，B. Riley 證券。

Yeah, thanks for taking the question, Mike, I wanted to follow up and just go deeper into some of the comments that you have on high-bandwidth memory. So I think three months ago, you talked about the potential for there to be some digestion occurring in that area. Can you talk about how things have played out in the last three months?

是的，謝謝你提出這個問題，麥克，我想跟進並更深入地了解你對高頻寬記憶體的一些評論。所以我認為三個月前您就談到該地區可能發生一些消化現象的可能性。您能談談過去三個月的情況嗎？

And then it seems like there's a couple of things happening. You talked about a product-related item. And then where does that impact the business? And how does that impact relative to the digestion you expected to occur? Thank you.

然後似乎發生了幾件事。您談論了與產品相關的項目。那麼這對業務有何影響？這對您預期發生的消化有何影響？謝謝。

So for HBM, we haven't seen any significant changes from our view shared in the last two calls, really. So we still see the investments that we expected continuing to happen, the product adoptions continuing to occur, including we're trying to make progress with the adoption of the 3Di technology. And that was what we mentioned is shipping additional evaluation units to two memory customers.

因此，對於 HBM 而言，我們實際上並沒有看到與我們在過去兩次電話會議中分享的觀點相比有任何重大變化。因此，我們仍然看到我們預期的投資仍在繼續，產品採用仍在繼續，包括我們正努力在採用 3Di 技術方面取得進展。這就是我們提到的向兩個記憶體客戶運送額外的評估單元。

The product -- forgot how you termed it, but the product gap that we were talking about in the call is primarily tied to 2.5D packaging. And that is, as we described, an area of sensitivity requirements that the customers needed. We worked very hard with them over the last several quarters to close gaps. We closed many, but not all, and the next-generation platform should be able to close all.

產品－忘記你是怎麼稱呼它的，但我們在電話中談到的產品差距主要與 2.5D 封裝有關。正如我們所描述的，這是客戶需要的敏感要求領域。過去幾季我們與他們一起努力縮小差距。我們關閉了很多，但不是全部，下一代平台應該能夠關閉所有。

Got it. And so the second and follow-up question is on the commentary for the second half of the year. So it sounds like you're expecting advanced nodes to perform well, and you've got a memory pause but broader growth after that. Can you talk more specifically about what you expect in advanced packaging and specialty in the second half of the year?

知道了。因此，第二個後續問題是關於下半年的評論。因此，聽起來您期望高級節點表現良好，並且您會遇到記憶體暫停，但之後會有更廣泛的增長。您能否更具體地說明您對下半年先進封裝和特殊封裝的期望？

Yeah. So for advanced packaging, remember, we had some very, very tough comps compared to last year. So we talked about when gate-all-around is doubling for us, that was essentially flat. So -- and I don't want to repeat all of the -- because I know we covered in the last few calls. HBM, we had a different story with the large investments from one of the memory manufacturers that didn't get qualified. So that was another difficult comp.

是的。因此，對於先進封裝，請記住，與去年相比，我們面臨的競爭非常非常激烈。因此，我們討論了當環繞門對我們來說加倍時，這基本上是持平的。所以——我不想重複所有內容——因為我知道我們在最近的幾次通話中已經討論過了。HBM，我們有一個不同的故事，一家記憶體製造商投入巨資卻沒有獲得資格。所以這是另一場艱難的比賽。

Now -- so that's still in play. But the additional variable that I spoke about in the past was the allocations of the tool slots. And so that has a negative impact on us in the short term, and that's where we're seeing some degradation in the AI packaging, primarily on the 2.5D side.

現在——這仍在進行中。但我過去談到的額外變數是工具槽的分配。所以這在短期內會對我們產生負面影響，這就是我們看到 AI 封裝方面有所退化，主要是在 2.5D 方面。

Brian Chin, Stifel.

Brian Chin，Stifel。

Hi there. Good evening. Thanks for letting us ask a few questions. Maybe firstly, Mike, can you quantify the impact in Q2 and maybe even for the year in terms of the reciprocal tariffs and maybe the reluctance or the impact that's having on shipments of some equipment from the US into places like China? Can you maybe quantify that for 2Q and maybe even for the year? That's my first question. Thank you.

你好呀。晚安.感謝您讓我們提出幾個問題。首先，麥克，您能否量化第二季度甚至全年的互惠關稅的影響，以及對從美國到中國等地的設備運輸的阻力或影響？您能否量化第二季甚至全年的數據？這是我的第一個問題。謝謝。

So reciprocal tariffs, I assume you're going to -- because Trump's been referring to things as reciprocal tariffs, but I believe you mean true reciprocal tariffs where as a result of the US tariffs, other countries are responding with tariffs in their own. Assuming that's the question, we're not seeing any impact at this time. China had announced some of these tariffs, but then made exceptions for some of the semiconductor equipment.

因此，我認為你會談到互惠關稅——因為川普一直在提到互惠關稅，但我相信你指的是真正的互惠關稅，即由於美國的關稅，其他國家也會以自己的關稅作為回應。假設這是問題所在，我們目前還沒有看到任何影響。中國已經宣布了部分關稅，但隨後對部分半導體設備做出了例外規定。

We do think there's a possibility for Europe, EU potentially to do something similar. So this -- so right now, we're not expecting any impact, but we'll be better prepared for any kind of impact as we move this manufacturing strategic initiative we have forward and accelerate it.

我們確實認為歐洲、歐盟有可能採取類似的做法。所以現在，我們預計不會有任何影響，但隨著我們推進並加速這項製造戰略計劃，我們將更好地應對任何影響。

Okay. Got it. And maybe I sort of misunderstood it during some of the prepared remarks. Second question, really -- I mean, a very strong advanced nodes revenue print in Q1, bigger than, I think, even the second half combined in that business, granted last year is still kind of a double trough year for you guys for the year. But can you go more into sort of what drove that big sequential uptick?

好的。知道了。也許我在準備發言時有些誤解了這一點。第二個問題，實際上——我的意思是，第一季先進節點的收入非常強勁，我認為甚至比該業務下半年的總收入還要高，當然去年對你們來說仍然是雙低谷年。但是您能否進一步解釋一下推動這一連續大幅上漲的原因？

Obviously, there's some strength in gale around two-nanometer, I'm sure. But -- and talking about memory being a bit of a weaker spot in Q3, did something pull forward? Was there like an acceleration by customers? Maybe if you could just provide some more color around that.

顯然，我確信兩奈米左右的大風具有一定的強度。但是——說到內存在第三季的弱點，有什麼進展嗎？顧客數量是否有增加？也許你可以為此提供更多顏色。

I'm not sure if anything pulled forward necessarily, but we did see very strong investments in the first half. So part of our Q1 results and part of our Q1 guide is fairly strong, and that's what we mentioned on the call, very strong memory. So memory stayed steady first half. Gate-all-around comes down a little bit in our guide from the second quarter -- for the second quarter, but that was as planned and then comes back in the second half, where in the second, the third quarter, we see memory coming down after significant ramps. And that's not an unusual pattern for memory.

我不確定是否有什麼必然的推動作用，但我們確實看到上半年的投資非常強勁。因此，我們的第一季業績和第一季指南的部分內容相當強勁，這就是我們在電話會議上提到的，記憶力非常強。因此前半部記憶保持穩定。從第二季度開始，我們的指導中認為 Gate-all-around 有所下降 - 但這是按計劃進行的，然後在下半年又會回來，在第二季度和第三季度，我們看到內存在大幅上升之後開始下降。這對於記憶來說並不是一種不尋常的模式。

Matthew Prisco, Cantor Fitzgerald.

馬修·普里斯科、康托·菲茨傑拉德。

Hey guys, thanks for taking the question. I'd like to start on the new 2.5D tool. Just kind of how do you think about the performance gains generation over generation, how this new tool is expected to stand up versus the competition? And how we should think about that ramp and accelerating the design to actually getting that into fabs and running wafers?

嘿夥計們，謝謝你們回答這個問題。我想開始使用新的 2.5D 工具。您如何看待一代又一代的效能提升，而這種新工具有望如何在競爭中脫穎而出？我們應該如何考慮這一進程並加速設計以真正將其投入晶圓廠並運行晶圓？

Great question. Great question. Well, of course, we're a little biased, but we think this is a fundamentally ground-up new tool. And it's been in the works for a while, so for years as we saw these needs coming. But with the rapid acceleration starting in '23 and then seeing the evolving requirements through '24, we needed to pull this in. And that became very, very apparent late last year.

好問題。好問題。嗯，當然，我們有一點偏見，但我們認為這是一個從根本上全新的工具。這項工作已經籌備了一段時間，多年來，我們一直在關注這些需求。但隨著 23 年開始的快速加速以及 24 年間不斷變化的需求，我們需要將其納入其中。這一點在去年年底變得非常明顯。

So working with the customers, that's what we've been doing. And obviously, we don't intend to build tools to be second place. So we believe it will compare very favorably. We understand there's obviously against this particular competitor, they have a wealth of technology in inspection, but we also have a wealth of technology in advanced packaging.

因此，與客戶合作就是我們一直在做的事情。顯然，我們並不打算將工具打造為第二位。因此我們相信它將具有非常有利的比較優勢。我們明白，與這個特定的競爭對手相比，他們顯然擁有豐富的檢測技術，但我們也擁有豐富的先進封裝技術。

And so we're closing the gaps in some of our 2D inspection while we can still leverage our platform and understanding of how the packaging market behaves from a cost and performance sensitivity point of view.

因此，我們正在彌補一些二維檢測方面的差距，同時我們仍然可以利用我們的平台並從成本和性能敏感性的角度了解包裝市場的表現。

So we expect this will go very well. I think you also asked about the ability to deliver. We've already actually -- so part of the variables that we were talking about is we had potentially upgrade proposals for existing platform. So we've already been testing some of the optics and optical capabilities. Now we're putting it all, so that's already happened.

因此我們預計一切將會順利進行。我想您也詢問了交付能力。我們實際上已經——所以我們討論的部分變數是我們對現有平台的潛在升級建議。我們已經測試了一些光學和光學功能。現在我們正在把一切都做好，所以這已經發生了。

The customers chose not to take upgrades. They wanted the full tool and they wanted us to pull that in for the performance advantages the full tool would give. We're very confident in being able to deliver those tools in the second half for evaluation units, and I would expect to be able to ramp fairly quickly after that.

客戶選擇不接受升級。他們想要完整的工具，並希望我們將其納入其中，以獲得完整工具所帶來的效能優勢。我們非常有信心能夠在下半年為評估部門提供這些工具，並且我希望能夠在那之後迅速成長。

That's helpful. And then I guess staying on new tools, your 3Di tool, the Iris G2 systems, would just kind of love any further color you can offer on early customer feedback and traction and kind of the expected adoption ramp there, both through '25 and maybe into 2026. Thanks.

這很有幫助。然後我想繼續使用新工具，您的 3Di 工具、Iris G2 系統，您會喜歡您能提供的任何關於早期客戶反饋和吸引力的進一步信息，以及預期的採用率，無論是到 2025 年還是到 2026 年。謝謝。

Yeah. So we still are engaged with several customers on the Iris G2. We are seeing some challenges with, let's say, long-term stability. So there are some areas that the R&D teams are working through. But overall, the platform, the capability, the measurement performance, it all looks positive. Customers remain very engaged. And so we're just blasting through the normal challenges of developing and releasing a new product.

是的。因此，我們仍在與 Iris G2 上的幾位客戶合作。我們看到了一些挑戰，例如長期穩定的挑戰。研發團隊正在努力解決一些領域。但總體而言，平台、能力、測量性能看起來都是正面的。顧客仍然非常投入。因此，我們只是在克服開發和發布新產品的正常挑戰。

Charles Shi, Needham.

查爾斯·施，尼德漢姆。

Hey, good afternoon, Mike. Well, there's a lot to unpack, but I want to ask you a clarification question first. When you say Q3 is low-water mark, do you mean advanced node revenue or total revenue?

嘿，下午好，麥克。好吧，有很多事情需要解決，但我想先問你一個澄清的問題。當您說第三季是最低點時，您是指先進節點收入還是總收入？

Total revenue. Good clarification.

總收入。很好的澄清。

Yes. So if that were the case, when I think about the progression, right, that Q2 had a little bit dip, Q3 a little bit dip, Q4 coming back up, it feels like you are -- probably have to walk away from your commitment to outperform WFE this year. Is that the case?

是的。因此，如果情況確實如此，當我考慮進展時，對的，第二季度略有下滑，第三季度略有下滑，第四季度回升，感覺你可能不得不放棄今年超越 WFE 的承諾。是嗎？

It depends on what WFE ends up being. But certainly, we're looking probably more like market perform. But again, it depends on what WFE ends up being.

這取決於 WFE 最終是什麼。但可以肯定的是，我們看起來可能更像是市場表現。但同樣，這取決於 WFE 最終是什麼。

David Duley, Steelhead Securities.

Steelhead Securities 的 David Duley。

Just for clarifications, and I'm sorry, as far as the Q2 guidance is down sequentially, which pieces of the business are down sequentially in the Q2 guidance? And as a clarification, the 2.5D inspection tool, that's your -- you're basically referring to your CoWoS inspection tool, correct?

只是為了澄清，很抱歉，就第二季指引而言，哪些業務部分在第二季指引中連續下降？需要澄清的是，2.5D 檢查工具是您的——您基本上指的是您的 CoWoS 檢查工具，對嗎？

Yeah. Correct. The -- from the guidance side, looking -- from a guidance perspective, it's primarily the advanced nodes is down a little bit. So down, I think we said -- what did we say, meaningfully? And then we have the specialty and devices really impacted mostly by lithography, more or less flat, but then impacted potentially by lithography shipments.

是的。正確的。從指導方面來看，從指導角度來看，主要是高階節點略有下降。所以，我想我們說了──我們說了什麼，有意義嗎？然後，我們的專業產品和設備實際上主要受到光刻技術的影響，或多或少是平穩的，但可能會受到光刻技術出貨量的影響。

Okay. And then as far as -- I guess, let's just ask that question. Could you give us an update on lithography and what you're seeing? I know there's a lot of movement going on in the CoWoS packaging space, and there's a lot more volume there, both with TSMC and the OSATs. So maybe give us an update as to what you're seeing. Thanks.

好的。然後就——我想，我們就問這個問題吧。您能否向我們介紹一下光刻技術的最新進展以及您所看到的情況？我知道 CoWoS 封裝領域正在發生很多變化，而且台積電和 OSAT 的產量都有所增加。因此請向我們更新您所看到的情況。謝謝。

Yeah. We're seeing a tremendous amount of interest in wide-field, high-resolution optics, a tremendous amount of interest in panel packaging and in glass. So for sure, the areas of research and of development and of the next generation of packaging, the HRP, our HR stepper seems well positioned for, and we're running quite a few demos again through our new PACE application center of excellence. So -- but that's still in the R&D form. It's still forming. So we're talking two years out for some of these applications to start hitting volume.

是的。我們看到人們對寬視野、高解析度光學元件、面板封裝和玻璃有著濃厚的興趣。因此可以肯定的是，在研究和開發領域以及下一代封裝 HRP 領域，我們的 HR 步進機似乎處於有利地位，而且我們正透過新的 PACE 應用卓越中心再次運行相當多的演示。所以——但這仍然處於研發階段。它還在形成中。因此，我們預計其中一些應用程式將在兩年後開始批量生產。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Edward Yang, Oppenheimer.

楊德昌，奧本海默。

Hi Mike, thanks for the time. Could we delve a little bit deeper into your comments about, again, 2.5D packaging? You said some applications were not addressed by your platform. Was that a case of was your equipment not performing up to spec? Or did the specs change?

嗨，麥克，謝謝你抽出時間。我們能否更深入探討您對 2.5D 封裝的評論？您說有些應用程式沒有被您的平台解決。這是不是您的設備性能不符合規格的情況？或者規格改變了？

That's another good question. No, the equipment, obviously, it was performing up to spec. And then we even essentially doubled its performance, but it still wasn't enough to meet the new requirements. So the requirements from the customers were evolving quickly as they were ramping very quickly over the last 18 months. They were also working with their customers and seeing requirements change. So this was an acceleration of learning that the team we just fell a little short of with the existing platform.

這又是一個好問題。不，顯然，該設備的性能符合規格。然後我們甚至將其性能提高了一倍，但仍然不足以滿足新的要求。因此，客戶的需求在過去 18 個月中迅速增長，並且也在不斷變化。他們也與客戶合作並觀察需求的變化。因此，這加速了我們團隊的學習，他們發現在現有平台上我們只是略有不足。

Okay. And I think you mentioned that this might open up some front-end opportunities as well. So this sounds like it's almost like a new platform and perhaps it's a market share opportunity for you. Is there any risk on the other side that someone else might take this opportunity and take some share? Or I just want to understand better the puts and takes.

好的。我認為您提到這也可能帶來一些前端機會。這聽起來幾乎就像一個新的平台，也許對你來說是一個市場份額的機會。另一方面是否有其他人可能利用這個機會並分得一部分股份的風險？或者我只是想更好地理解投入和產出。

So the -- yes. So from the inspection side for 2.5D, there is an alternative that the customers selected. And I think that's one of our very, very large competitors. The opportunity, though, is you're exactly right. The opportunity now is that this new platform is significantly more capable than the macro inspection platform we had before.

所以——是的。因此從 2.5D 的檢查方面來看，客戶可以選擇另一種方案。我認為這是我們非常非常大的競爭對手之一。然而，機會是，你完全正確。現在的機會是，這個新平台比我們以前的宏觀檢查平台功能強大得多。

So there's two positives. If you look beyond the short-term impact, the two positives are: one, the ASPs, there's another level of ASP that we can charge now because now we're putting together a performance platform that is well into the submicron capability point of view.

所以有兩個優點。如果你不去考慮短期影響，你會發現有兩個積極因素：一是平均售價 (ASP)，我們現在可以收取另一個級別的平均售價，因為現在我們正在組建一個性能平台，該平台已經達到了亞微米能力的水平。

So this not only helps us close the gap with the existing packaging opportunities, but we also now have an opportunity to go after the front-end inspection markets where previously, our platform wasn't geared for, wasn't designed for. And now we can go after that. So that -- the size of that market is almost equivalent to the size of the packaging market. So for us, it's a significant new opportunity.

因此，這不僅幫助我們縮小與現有包裝機會的差距，而且我們現在也有機會進入前端檢測市場，而此前我們的平台並不適合該市場，也並非為此而設計。現在我們可以繼續了。因此——該市場的規模幾乎相當於包裝市場的規模。所以對我們來說，這是一個重要的新機會。

Blayne Curtis, Jefferies.

布萊恩‧柯蒂斯，傑富瑞集團。

Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for letting me ask a question. Maybe just to start, I just want to level set there's some big moving pieces here for the March quarter in advanced nodes. I guess that was more growth than I was looking for. Can you talk about that, maybe the split between logic and memory? And I just want a little bit more clarity as to what drove the near doubling.

嘿，下午好。感謝您允許我提問。也許只是開始，我只是想確定一下三月季度高級節點中一些重大的變化。我想這比我期望的成長還要多。你能談談這個嗎，也許是邏輯和記憶之間的分裂？我只是想更清楚地了解是什麼導致了這個數字幾乎翻了一番。

Well, I think it's a couple of things. Of course, the customers expanded. So we saw DRAM, NAND and logic expansion. But as we mentioned before, our entitlement in these markets has expanded as we've added not just OCD, which we've always had, but also then slotted in and got designed in on the Iris films and then also had some share gain opportunities with the integrated metrology. So the combination of which means that as customers, let's say, add 100,000 wafer start or 10,000 wafer starts, we're just seeing more of that wallet share.

嗯，我認為有幾件事。當然，顧客也擴大了。因此我們看到了 DRAM、NAND 和邏輯擴充。但正如我們之前提到的，我們在這些市場中的權利已經擴大，因為我們不僅增加了我們一直擁有的 OCD，而且還將其融入 Iris 電影中並進行設計，然後還通過集成計量獲得了一些市場份額增長機會。因此，綜合起來就意味著，假設客戶增加了 100,000 個晶圓啟動或 10,000 個晶圓啟動，我們就會看到更多的錢包份額。

Got you. And then maybe kind of the second part related is, I think I've heard you previously talked about the outlook for that business, maybe it could be $250 million or $300 million for the year. Obviously, you did $93 million in Q1. Just trying to ask maybe a couple of ways just to understand the size of this pause. So I don't know if you want to kind of quantify how large that would be either in advanced nodes or overall.

明白了。然後可能與第二部分相關的是，我想我之前聽過您談論該業務的前景，也許今年的營收會達到 2.5 億美元或 3 億美元。顯然，您在第一季的盈利為 9300 萬美元。只是想透過幾種方式來了解這個停頓的大小。所以我不知道您是否想量化它在高級節點或整體上有多大。

Or is that still the right range for that product? Or are you trending to the higher end of that range I think I've heard you previously give?

或者這仍然是該產品的正確範圍？或者您傾向於選擇該範圍的高端？我想我以前聽您說過？

Yeah, we would be definitely at the higher end of that range. Or barring any macroeconomic changes, what we see now, we would be at the higher end of that range.

是的，我們肯定會處於該範圍的高端。或者除非發生任何宏觀經濟變化，否則我們現在看到的將處於該範圍的高端。

Charles Shi, Needham.

查爾斯·施，尼德漢姆。

Yeah, thanks for taking my follow-up. I think my line kind of dropped before I can ask a question. So Mike, compared -- let's say compared with 90 days ago, right, I think 90 days ago, the expectation back then was probably flat to up every quarter through the end of the year, but it looks like there is a little bit of choppiness in the middle part of the year compared with that expectation 90 days ago.

是的，感謝您接受我的後續採訪。我覺得在我提問之前我的電話就斷了。所以麥克，相比之下——比如說與 90 天前相比，對，我認為 90 天前，當時的預期可能在年底前的每個季度都持平或上升，但與 90 天前的預期相比，今年年中似乎有一點波動。

Based on what all I'm hearing on the call, it looks like most of the downside relative to 90 days ago seems to be related to 2.5D. Everything else was kind of performing or trending in line with what you were expecting or despite some choppiness, let's say, in memory, right? But is that the right way to look at where you are today versus 90 days ago? And any additional thoughts on where lower than expectation, the source of the disappointment may have come from? Thank you.

根據我在電話中聽到的所有信息，與 90 天前相比，大部分下行趨勢似乎與 2.5D 有關。其他一切的表現或趨勢都符合您的預期，或者儘管在記憶中有些波動，對嗎？但這是比較您今天與 90 天前情況的正確方法嗎？還有什麼其他想法嗎？低於預期、失望的根源可能來自哪裡？謝謝。

Yeah. No, that's exactly the way to look at it. And that's the variables when 90 days ago when being pressed for trying to give guidance or an outlook, it was difficult because we had so many variables. We could have seen more increase. We could have seen less.

是的。不，這正是看待它的方式。這就是 90 天前當我們被要求給出指導或展望時所面臨的變數，因為變數太多，所以很難給出指導或展望。我們本可以看到更多的成長。我們本來可以看到更少的東西。

We weren't sure where the customer was going to go. We doubled the performance of the tool. Was that enough? We weren't really sure at the time. Again, now it's a little bit more clear. So that is essentially the only change to the forecast -- to the outlook. Got it.

我們不確定顧客要去哪裡。我們將該工具的性能提高了一倍。夠了嗎？我們當時並不確定。再次，現在情況更加清楚了。因此，這基本上是對預測、對前景的唯一改變。知道了。

Got it. Maybe I think HBM side, you already kind of guided this year probably is going to be a lower year compared with the last year. So fair to say 2.5D is the same trend this year?

知道了。也許我認為 HBM 方面，您已經在某種程度上預測過，今年的業績可能與去年相比會較低。那麼，可以公平地說，2.5D 是今年的相同趨勢嗎？

Yes, for us now, yes, but yes.

是的，對我們來說現在是這樣，但是是的。

Thank you. This does conclude today's question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn the call back to Sidney Ho for any additional or closing remarks.

謝謝。今天的問答環節到此結束。現在我想把電話轉回給 Sidney Ho，請他做任何補充演講或結束語。

Thanks, Rachel. We will be participating in a number of investor conferences throughout this quarter. We look forward to seeing many of you there. A replay of the call today will be available on our website at approximately 7:30 Eastern Time this evening. We would like to thank you for your continued interest in Onto Innovation.

謝謝，Rachel。本季我們將參加多場投資者會議。我們期待在那裡見到你們。今天的電話會議重播將於今晚美國東部時間 7:30 左右在我們的網站上提供。我們感謝您對 Onto Innovation 的持續關注。

Rachel, please conclude the call.

Rachel，請結束通話。

This does conclude today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。