Magna International Inc (MGA) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Magna International First Quarter 2021 Results. (Operator Instructions) Finally, a reminder that this conference is being recorded.

感謝您的耐心等待，歡迎閱讀麥格納國際 2021 年第一季業績。 （操作員說明）最後提醒一下，本次會議正在錄製中。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Louis Tonelli, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

我現在想將會議交給投資者關係副總裁路易斯·託內利 (Louis Tonelli)。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Hello, everyone, and welcome to our conference call covering our first quarter 2024. Joining me today are Swamy Kotagiri and Pat McCann.

謝謝你，接線生。大家好，歡迎參加我們關於 2024 年第一季的電話會議。

Yesterday, our Board of Directors met and approved our financial results for the first quarter of 2024. We issued a press release this morning outlining our results. You'll find the press release, today's conference call webcast, the slide presentation to go along with the call and our updated quarterly financial review all in the Investor Relations section of our website at magna.com.

昨天，我們的董事會召開會議並批准了 2024 年第一季的財務業績。您可以在我們網站 Magna.com 的投資者關係部分找到新聞稿、今天的電話會議網路廣播、電話會議的幻燈片演示以及更新的季度財務回顧。

Before we get started, just as a reminder, the discussion today may contain forward-looking information or forward-looking statements within the meaning of applicable securities legislation. Such statements involve certain risks, assumptions and uncertainties, which may cause the company's actual or future results and performance to be materially different from those expressed or implied in these statements.

在我們開始之前，提醒一下，今天的討論可能包含適用證券立法含義內的前瞻性資訊或前瞻性陳述。此類陳述涉及某些風險、假設和不確定性，可能導致公司的實際或未來結果和績效與這些陳述中明示或暗示的結果和績效有重大差異。

Please refer to today's press release for a complete description of our safe harbor disclaimer. Please also refer to our reminder slide included in our presentation that relates to our commentary today.

請參閱今天的新聞稿，以了解我們安全港免責聲明的完整說明。另請參閱我們的簡報中包含的與我們今天的評論相關的提醒幻燈片。

With that, I'll pass it over to Swamy.

這樣，我就把它交給 Swamy。

Thank you, Louis. Good morning, everyone. I appreciate you joining our call today. Let's jump right in.

謝謝你，路易斯。大家，早安。感謝您今天加入我們的電話會議。讓我們直接開始吧。

There are some notable takeaways from the quarter that I would like to highlight before getting into some of the details. We are pleased that our Q1 results for sales and earnings, excluding Fisker impairments, came in ahead of our expectations. This was in part due to our continued operational excellence activities, which are on track to collectively contribute about 75 basis points to margin expansion over the next 2 years.

在討論一些細節之前，我想強調本季的一些值得注意的要點。我們很高興第一季的銷售和獲利結果（不包括菲斯克減損）超出了我們的預期。這部分歸功於我們持續的卓越營運活動，預計在未來 2 年內為利潤率擴張共同貢獻約 75 個基點。

We are maintaining our adjusted EBIT margin outlook for 2024 despite the negative impact of assuming no additional Fisker Ocean production and lower sales on program delays and mix. Our operational excellence activities, continuing efforts to contain costs and commercial recoveries are all expected to contribute to this. And we issued $400 million of senior notes in Q1 to refinance debt coming due this quarter. We expect to be back into our target leverage range during 2025.

儘管假設 Fisker Ocean 產量不會增加以及專案延遲和組合導致的銷售下降會產生負面影響，但我們仍維持 2024 年調整後的息稅前利潤率預期。我們的卓越營運活動、控製成本和商業回收的持續努力都有望為此做出貢獻。我們在第一季發行了 4 億美元的優先票據，為本季到期的債務進行再融資。我們預計 2025 年槓桿率將回到目標範圍。

So far this year, we have experienced more stable production schedules relative to what we experienced in recent years. This is contributing to improved operating results. We anticipate a relatively flat vehicle production environment over our outlook period, particularly in our key markets of North America and Europe. As a result, our continued content growth is contributing to our higher sales.

與近年來相比，今年到目前為止，我們的生產計劃更加穩定。這有助於改善經營績效。我們預計在展望期內汽車生產環境將相對平穩，特別是在北美和歐洲的主要市場。因此，我們持續的內容成長有助於我們提高銷售額。

As we said earlier this year, inflation continues, in particular, for labor. However, we have been working hard to mitigate cost increases, including ongoing discussions with customers for additional recoveries. Lastly, our customers continue to evolve their electrification strategies, particularly in North America. We are assessing the potential impacts on our sales, earnings, capital and free cash flow and are working with our customers to optimize investment and capacity plans. We'll continue to update when we have more clarity on major impacts, if any, to our business.

正如我們今年稍早所說，通膨仍在持續，尤其是勞動力通膨。然而，我們一直在努力降低成本增加，包括與客戶持續討論額外回收事宜。最後，我們的客戶不斷發展其電氣化策略，特別是在北美。我們正在評估對我們的銷售、收益、資本和自由現金流的潛在影響，並與我們的客戶合作優化投資和產能計畫。當我們更清楚地了解對我們業務的重大影響（如果有）時，我們將繼續更新。

It is important that I provide an update on our current status for the Fisker Ocean program. Production of the vehicle is currently idled. Our current outlook issued today assumes no further production. Consistent with disclosure we provided in our annual information form, this assumption reduces our 2024 sales by about $400 million and impacts our adjusted EBIT margin by about 25 basis points.

我必須提供菲斯克海洋計劃當前狀態的最新信息，這一點很重要。該車的生產目前處於閒置狀態。我們今天發布的當前展望假設不再進一步生產。與我們在年度資訊表中提供的揭露一致，這項假設使我們 2024 年的銷售額減少了約 4 億美元，並影響了我們調整後的息稅前利潤率約 25 個基點。

We fully impaired our operating assets and warrants in the first quarter totaling $294 million. We have $195 million in deferred revenue associated with the Fisker contract that could offset the $294 million in asset impairments that cannot be recorded in Q1. This amount will be recognized in income as performance obligations are satisfied or upon termination of the Fisker contract manufacturing agreement.

第一季我們的營運資產和認股權證完全減值，總額為 2.94 億美元。我們有 1.95 億美元與 Fisker 合約相關的遞延收入，可以抵銷第一季無法記錄的 2.94 億美元資產減損。該金額將在履約義務履行或菲斯克合約製造協議終止時確認為收入。

In order to mitigate the impact of the lower sales on this program, we recorded additional restructuring costs of $22 million in the quarter. We continue to monitor the situation, and we'll evaluate opportunities to further mitigate the impact on our business. Overall, we expect to offset the adjusted EBIT margin impact from this item through actions taken and strong execution across the company.

為了減輕銷售額下降對該計劃的影響，我們在本季度記錄了 2,200 萬美元的額外重組成本。我們將繼續監控事態發展，並將評估進一步減輕對我們業務影響的機會。總體而言，我們預計透過整個公司採取的行動和強有力的執行力來抵消該專案調整後的息稅前利潤率的影響。

I would like to comment on how we are proactively managing to address challenges and further improve our financial performance. Our operational excellence activities are on track to contribute about 75 basis points of improvement over the next 2 years. In addition, input costs, which were expected to be a 30 basis point headwind to EBIT margin this year has been reduced to about 25 basis points now.

我想談談我們如何積極應對挑戰並進一步改善我們的財務表現。我們的卓越營運活動預計在未來 2 年內實現約 75 個基點的改進。此外，預計今年息稅前利潤率將下降 30 個基點的投入成本現已降至約 25 個基點。

We are optimizing engineering spend which is expected to be down about $50 million from our February outlook. We are lowering our capital spending outlook to the $2.4 billion to $2.5 billion range, and we are continuing restructuring activities to optimize our footprint. As a result, our leverage ratio is on track to be back in our target range during 2025. We have a continuing focus across Magna on margin expansion and free cash flow generation.

我們正在優化工程支出，預計將比 2 月的預期減少約 5,000 萬美元。我們將資本支出前景下調至 24 億至 25 億美元範圍，並繼續進行重組活動以優化我們的足跡。因此，我們的槓桿率預計在​​ 2025 年回到我們的目標範圍。

Electrification remains an important industry trend although the take rates are uncertain in the short and midterm. Our EV strategy with respect to customers, programs and regions in which we want to participate is both targeted and deliberate. And as you've heard us say for many years, we are quoting business based on our volume assumptions, not our customers. With all this in mind, we continue to win business and advance our position in electrification.

儘管短期和中期的採用率存在不確定性，但電氣化仍然是一個重要的產業趨勢。我們針對我們希望參與的客戶、計劃和地區制定的電動車策略既具有針對性又經過深思熟慮。正如您多年來聽到我們所說的那樣，我們根據我們的數量假設而不是我們的客戶來報價。考慮到這一切，我們繼續贏得業務並提升我們在電氣化領域的地位。

We have been awarded specialized eDrive business to support one of our customers' high-end vehicle platform. This primary rear drive system delivers over 700 kilowatts of power and exceptional performance, reflecting our expertise in electric powertrain system engineering and integration.

我們已獲得專門的 eDrive 業務來支援我們客戶的高階車輛平台之一。這款主後驅動系統可提供超過 700 千瓦的功率和卓越的性能，體現了我們在電動動力總成系統工程和整合方面的專業知識。

Lastly, before I pass the call over to Pat, I want to highlight recognitions received by Magna, which I am very proud of. Magna was named at 2024 Automotive News PACE Award winner, 1 of only 13 winners for our integrated driver and occupant monitoring system. We also received PACEpilot recognitions in seating for our EcoSphere 100% Melt-Recyclable Foam and Trim and in exteriors for our Modular & Scalable Active Grill Shutter Assembly.

最後，在我把電話轉給帕特之前，我想強調麥格納所獲得的認可，我對此感到非常自豪。麥格納榮獲 2024 年《汽車新聞》PACE 獎，是我們的整合式駕駛員和乘員監控系統僅有的 13 個獲獎者之一。我們的 EcoSphere 100% 熔融可回收泡棉和裝飾座椅以及模組化和可擴展主動燒烤百葉窗組件的外觀也獲得了 PACEpilot 認可。

Magna was the only company to receive both a PACE award and multiple recognitions for PACEpilot Innovation to Watch. And reflected in our ongoing commitment to operational excellence is the recognition we received from our customers. Typically, Magna receives more than 100 launch and quality awards from various global automakers around the world each year. Most recently, General Motors recognized Magna with 5 awards across 4 product areas. This brings our total to 30 GM Supplier of the Year awards over the last 5 years.

麥格納是唯一一家同時獲得 PACE 獎和 PACEpilot Innovation to Watch 多項認可的公司。我們對卓越營運的持續承諾反映了我們從客戶那裡獲得的認可。通常情況下，麥格納每年都會獲得來自全球各汽車製造商的 100 多個上市和品質獎項。最近，通用汽車在 4 個產品領域授予麥格納 5 個獎項。這使得我們在過去 5 年中獲得通用汽車年度供應商獎的總數達到 30 個。

With that, I'll pass the call over to Pat.

這樣，我會將電話轉給帕特。

Thanks, Swamy, and good morning, everyone. As Swamy indicated, we delivered solid first quarter earnings ahead of our expectations, excluding the Fisker impairments. Recall that we indicated on our February call that we expected our 2024 earnings to be lowest in the first quarter of the year.

謝謝斯瓦米，大家早安。正如斯瓦米所指出的，我們第一季的獲利超出了我們的預期，不包括菲斯克的減損。回想一下，我們在 2 月的電話會議上表示，我們預計 2024 年第一季的獲利將是最低的。

Now comparing the first quarter of 2024 to the first quarter of 2023. Consolidated sales were $11 billion, up 3% compared to a 2% increase in global light vehicle production. Adjusted EBIT was $469 million and adjusted EBIT margin was up 10 basis points to 4.3%.

現在將 2024 年第一季與 2023 年第一季進行比較。調整後息稅前利潤為 4.69 億美元，調整後息稅前利潤率上升 10 個基點，達到 4.3%。

Adjusted EPS came in at $1.08, down 6% year-over-year primarily due to interest costs but ahead of our expectations. And free cash flow used in the quarter was $270 million compared to $279 million in the first quarter of 2023. During the quarter, we paid dividends of $134 million. We also raised $400 million to repay debt coming due later this quarter. More importantly, with respect to our outlook, as Swamy noted, we are maintaining our adjusted EBIT margin range and lowering our capital spending range. Let me take you through some of the details.

調整後每股收益為 1.08 美元，年減 6%，主要是由於利息成本，但超出了我們的預期。本季使用的自由現金流為 2.7 億美元，而 2023 年第一季為 2.79 億美元。我們還籌集了 4 億美元來償還本季稍後到期的債務。更重要的是，就我們的前景而言，正如斯瓦米所指出的那樣，我們將維持調整​​後的息稅前利潤範圍並降低資本支出範圍。讓我帶您了解一些細節。

North American light vehicle production was up 2% and China was up 11%, while production in Europe declined 2%, netting to a 2% increase in global production. Breaking down North American production further, while overall production increased 2%, production by our Detroit-based customers declined 3% in the quarter. Our consolidated sales were $11 billion, up 3% over the first quarter of 2023. On an organic basis, our sales increased 1% year-over-year for a minus 1% growth over market in the first quarter, but plus 2% growth over market, excluding complete vehicles. Once again, negative production mix in North America unfavorably impacted our year-over-year sales growth in the quarter.

北美輕型汽車產量成長 2%，中國成長 11%，而歐洲產量下降 2%，全球產量淨成長 2%。進一步細分北美產量，雖然總產量增加了 2%，但我們底特律客戶的產量在本季下降了 3%。我們的綜合銷售額為 110 億美元，比 2023 年第一季成長 3%。 ，不包括整輛車。北美的負生產組合再次對我們本季的年比銷售成長產生不利影響。

Our sales increase was primarily due to the launch of new programs, higher overall global vehicle production, the acquisition of Veoneer Active Safety and increases to recover certain higher input costs. These were largely offset by lower complete vehicle assembly volumes, the impact of foreign currency translation and normal course customer price givebacks.

我們的銷售成長主要是由於新計畫的推出、全球汽車總產量的提高、收購維寧爾主動安全系統以及為收回某些較高投入成本而增加的銷售額。這些在很大程度上被整車組裝量下降、外幣換算的影響和正常的客戶價格回饋所抵消。

Adjusted EBIT was $469 million, and adjusted EBIT margin was 4.3% compared to 4.2% in Q1 2023. The higher EBIT percent in the quarter reflects approximately 40 basis points of operational items, the most significant of which relates to our operational activities, including improved results at underperforming operations, 30 basis points of nonrecurring items the most significant of which are lower warranty and a gain on the sale of a noncore equity method investment.

調整後息稅前利潤為4.69 億美元，調整後息稅前利潤率為4.3%，而2023 年第一季為4.2%。基點，其中最重要的是與我們的營運活動相關，包括改善績效不佳的業務，30個基點的非經常性項目，其中最重要的是較低的保證和出售非核心權益法投資的收益。

These items were partially offset by higher net input costs, in particular for labor, which approximated 20 basis points and volume and other items, which collectively impacted us by about 40 basis points. These include acquisitions, which came in at lower margins than the corporate average, lower earnings on lower assembly sales, including as a result of the end of production of the BMW 5 Series, net of higher earnings on higher component and system sales as well as transactional foreign exchange gains.

這些項目部分被較高的淨投入成本所抵消，特別是勞動成本，約為 20 個基點，而數量和其他項目則對我們產生了約 40 個基點的影響。其中包括利潤率低於公司平均的收購、裝配銷售下降導致的收益下降（包括由於BMW 5 系列停產）、零件和系統銷售增加帶來的收益增加以及交易性外匯收益。

Interest expense increased, reflecting net debt raised last year as well as higher market rates on the new debt. Our adjusted effective income tax rate came in at 21.5%, essentially in line with Q1 of last year. Net income was $311 million compared to $329 million in Q1 2023, mainly reflecting higher adjusted EBIT, offset by higher interest expense and minority interest. Adjusted diluted EPS was $1.08 compared to $1.15 last year.

利息支出增加，反映出去年增加的淨債務以及新債務市場利率的上升。調整後的有效所得稅率為 21.5%，與去年第一季基本持平。淨利潤為 3.11 億美元，而 2023 年第一季為 3.29 億美元，主要反映了調整後息稅前利潤的增加，但被較高的利息支出和少數股東權益所抵消。調整後攤薄每股收益為 1.08 美元，去年為 1.15 美元。

Turning to a review of our cash flows and investment activities. In the first quarter of 2024, we generated $591 million in cash from operations before changes in working capital and invested $330 million in working capital. Investment activities in the quarter included $493 million for fixed assets and a $125 million increase in investments, other assets and intangibles. Overall, we used free cash flow of $270 million in Q1. We continue to return capital to shareholders. We paid $134 million in dividends in Q1.

轉向對我們的現金流和投資活動的審查。 2024 年第一季度，我們在營運資本變動前的營運中產生了 5.91 億美元的現金，並投資了 3.3 億美元的營運資本。本季的投資活動包括固定資產 4.93 億美元，投資、其他資產和無形資產增加 1.25 億美元。總體而言，我們第一季使用了 2.7 億美元的自由現金流。我們繼續向股東返還資本。我們第一季支付了 1.34 億美元的股息。

Our balance sheet continues to be strong with investment-grade ratings from the major credit rating agencies. At the end of Q1, we had over $4 billion in liquidity, including about $1.5 billion in cash. Currently, our adjusted debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio is up 1.83, excluding excess cash held to pay down debt coming due this quarter. We anticipate a reduction of our leverage ratio, and we are on track to be within our targeted range during 2025.

我們的資產負債表持續保持強勁，並獲得主要信用評級機構的投資等級評級。截至第一季末，我們擁有超過 40 億美元的流動性，其中包括約 15 億美元的現金。目前，我們的調整後債務與調整後 EBITDA 比率上升了 1.83，不包括為償還本季到期債務而持有的超額現金。我們預計槓桿率會降低，並且預計在 2025 年達到目標範圍內。

Next, I will cover our updated outlook, which incorporates slightly higher-than-expected vehicle production in China, while our assumptions for production in North America and Europe are unchanged from our previous outlook. We also assume exchange rates in our outlook will approximate recent rates. We now expect a lower euro and Canadian dollar for 2024 and a slightly higher RMB all relative to our previous outlook.

接下來，我將介紹我們更新的展望，其中包括中國的汽車產量略高於預期，而我們對北美和歐洲生產的假設與先前的展望相同。我們也假設我們展望中的匯率將接近近期匯率。目前，我們預計 2024 年歐元和加元將走低，而人民幣將略高於我們先前的預期。

And as Swamy mentioned earlier, we are assuming no more production of the Fisker Ocean. We are reducing our expected sales range. Despite this, we are maintaining our EBIT margin outlook, reflecting our operational excellence efforts to contain cost and obtain commercial recoveries. We have increased our expected tax rate for 2024 from 21% to 22%, largely reflecting a change in the mix of earnings towards higher tax jurisdictions.

正如斯瓦米之前提到的，我們假設菲斯克海洋不再生產。我們正在降低預期的銷售範圍。儘管如此，我們仍維持息稅前利潤率預期，這反映了我們為控製成本和獲得商業回收所做的卓越營運努力。我們將 2024 年的預期稅率從 21% 提高到 22%，這在很大程度上反映了收入結構向高稅收管轄區的變化。

As a result of reducing the range of our sales and the higher expected tax rate, we are reducing our range for net income. We now expect capital spending to be in the $2.4 billion to $2.5 billion range compared to approximately $2.5 billion in our February outlook. This mainly reflects revised program spending. And our interest expense, equity income and free cash flow expectations are all unchanged from our last outlook.

由於縮小了我們的銷售範圍和較高的預期稅率，我們正在縮小淨利潤範圍。我們現在預計資本支出將在 24 億至 25 億美元之間，而我們 2 月的展望約為 25 億美元。這主要反映了修訂後的計劃支出。我們的利息支出、股本收入和自由現金流預期均與上次展望相同。

Let me walk you through the change in our sales outlook from February to now. As we mentioned earlier, we have assumed no future production for the Fisker Ocean. Consistent with our previous communications of the 2024 impact, this reduced sales by about $400 million.

讓我向您介紹一下從 2 月到現在我們的銷售前景的變化。正如我們之前提到的，我們假設菲斯克海洋未來不會生產。與我們先前關於 2024 年影響的溝通一致，銷售額減少了約 4 億美元。

We have received updated information on the amount of directed content on the new Mercedes G-Class assembly programs, which has reduced sales by about $400 million. Recall from our February outlook that we expected no dollar impact related to the sales change. Our updated FX rates resulted in about $200 million of lower sales and the remainder, including reduced active safety sales, partially offset by other amounts netted to about $200 million in lower sales in our outlook.

我們收到了有關新款梅賽德斯 G 級裝配計劃的定向內容數量的最新信息，該計劃導致銷售額減少了約 4 億美元。回想一下我們二月的展望，我們預期銷售變化不會對美元產生影響。我們更新的匯率導致銷售額減少約 2 億美元，其餘部分（包括主動安全銷售額減少）部分被我們展望中銷售額減少約 2 億美元的其他金額所部分抵消。

In summary, we had solid financial performance in the first quarter, ahead of what we had expected, excluding the Fisker impairments. We are on track with our operational excellence activities and are taking further actions to mitigate impacts from lower expected sales. As a result, we are maintaining our adjusted EBIT margin outlook for 2024. We're also lowering our capital spending expectations for the year. And we are assessing the impacts of OEM electrification plans on our business in order to optimize investments and capacity plans.

總之，我們第一季的財務表現穩健，超出了我們的預期（不包括菲斯克減損）。我們正在進行卓越營運活動，並正在採取進一步行動，以減輕預期銷售額下降的影響。因此，我們維持 2024 年調整後的稅前利潤率預期。我們正在評估 OEM 電氣化計劃對我們業務的影響，以優化投資和產能計劃。

All in all, a solid start to 2024. Thanks for your attention, and we are more than happy to answer your questions. Operator?

總而言之，這是 2024 年的良好開端。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) And your first question comes from the line of John Murphy from Bank of America.

（操作員說明）您的第一個問題來自美國銀行的約翰·墨菲。

Just A couple of quick ones. First, on Power & Vision, the margins dropped pretty dramatically sequentially. I guess they're flat to slightly down year-over-year. And I think we've kind of gotten comfortable as we're exiting last year traveling maybe in the 5% to 6% range and maybe some upside over time. Was there anything specific or unique that happened in the quarter there? And how should we think about those margins as we progress through the year and maybe even beyond? Because I think it was 2.6%. It's far lower than we were at least modeling. Maybe we got something wrong.

只是幾個快速的。首先，在 Power & Vision 業務上，利潤率連續大幅下降。我猜它們與去年同期持平甚至略有下降。我認為我們已經感到有點舒服了，因為我們去年的旅行可能在 5% 到 6% 的範圍內，而且隨著時間的推移可能會出現一些上漲。該季度有什麼具體或獨特的事情發生嗎？隨著這一年甚至更久的進展，我們該如何考慮這些利潤？因為我認為是 2.6%。至少比我們建模的要低得多。也許我們搞錯了什麼。

John, this is Swamy. From the P&V sector perspective, there are a couple of things to note. First of all, fundamentally and basically, everything good. No surprises there other than what we talked in terms of volumes a little bit here and there. There is one specific program, which starts cadence in the second quarter and towards the second half of the year, which starts kicking in.

約翰，這是斯瓦米。從 P&V 產業的角度來看，有幾點需要注意。首先，從根本上來說，一切都很好。除了我們在這裡和那裡談論的一些數量之外，沒有什麼令人驚訝的。有一個具體計劃，從第二季開始，到下半年開始生效。

The engineering spend decreased cadence starts also from the second quarter moving forward. Some recoveries on tooling and insulating recoveries as the programs launch also comes in the later part of the year.

工程支出下降的節奏也從第二季開始向前推進。隨著計畫的啟動，工具和絕緣恢復也會在今年下半年出現一些恢復。

All said, just to give a little bit more color the way you asked and maybe helps modeling, as you look at the numbers today that we are showing for P&V is about 2.5%. It's going to be definitely more than double as we see, and we are expecting in the second quarter and going forward. So that's the step change that we have planned, and we see going from this quarter into second quarter and onwards.

總而言之，只是按照您要求的方式提供更多顏色，也許有助於建模，正如您今天看到的 P&V 數字約為 2.5%。正如我們所看到的，它肯定會增加一倍以上，我們預計第二季會出現這種情況，並會繼續下去。這就是我們計劃的逐步改變，我們預計從本季到第二季及以後都會發生這種變化。

That's very helpful. And then just another question around the battery structures business. Obviously, there's pushing down and to the right and a lot of EV ramp launches and volumes. I'm just curious if you could talk about sort of the state of that business and if there's been any significant change in your expectations, potentially maybe even a slowdown in the capital deployed for that to be more measured with what might actually be happening in the market.

這非常有幫助。然後是關於電池結構業務的另一個問題。顯然，有向下和向右推，以及大量電動車的推出和銷量。我只是很好奇您是否可以談談該業務的某種狀況，以及您的期望是否有任何重大變化，甚至可能是資本部署的放緩，以便更好地衡量實際情況市場。

Yes. That's a very good question, John. I think as we've always said, wherever possible, we have always looked at phasing in capital. That was one. Second thing, looking at volumes that are our own set of assumptions rather than just take what is given. The third thing we mentioned last time is, in some cases, customer partially or fully funding capital.

是的。這是一個非常好的問題，約翰。我認為，正如我們一直所說的，只要有可能，我們總是會考慮分階段引入資本。那是一個。第二件事，看看我們自己的一組假設的數量，而不是僅僅接受給定的東西。我們上次提到的第三件事是，在某些情況下，客戶部分或全部提供資金。

As you know, tooling is a normal course of business. But in specific programs on some of these products and programs, we have been asking and successful in some cases to get the customer to fund the capital partially or fully. All of those things help us mitigate. But on top of that, as we said, we are looking at just the overall -- whether it's investment in capital or on the engineering spend, we continue to look at it, and that's the reason for the guide on saying that the 2.5% is more in the range of 2.4% to 2.5%.

如您所知，工具是正常的業務過程。但在其中一些產品和計劃的具體計劃中，我們一直在要求客戶部分或全部提供資金，並在某些情況下成功地做到這一點。所有這些都可以幫助我們緩解壓力。但除此之外，正如我們所說，我們只關注整體——無論是資本投資還是工程支出，我們都會繼續關注，這就是指南中說 2.5% 的原因。的範圍內。

And as you know, there is a lot of volatility in volumes and how they're looking. So as we get a little bit more clarity, we'll continue to scrub the capital number even further. The engineering guide, we are able to say that we are reducing $50 million now, and we see that path, and we continue to scrub that even further.

如您所知，交易量及其外觀存在很大波動。因此，當我們變得更加清晰時，我們將繼續進一步清理資本數字。在工程指南中，我們可以說我們現在減少了 5000 萬美元，我們看到了這條道路，我們將繼續進一步清理它。

Okay. That's very helpful. Just one other follow-up. On the $195 million of deferred revenue that you're carrying that should flow through at some point in the future, Pat, is there cost that will come in with that deferred revenue? And how should we think about that potential benefit over time? And is that kind of it now that you've kind of taken these charges for the Fisker Ocean?

好的。這非常有幫助。只是另一個後續行動。帕特，關於您所持有的 1.95 億美元的遞延收入應該在未來某個時候流轉，該遞延收入是否會產生成本？隨著時間的推移，我們應該如何考慮這種潛在的好處？既然您已經為菲斯克海洋承擔了這些費用，那麼情況就是這樣嗎？

Yes, that's correct, John. So effectively, we've written off 100% of our Fisker assets. So what's left is the deferred revenue and depending on how the future plays out, that deferred revenue will come through income with no cost associated.

是的，這是正確的，約翰。我們實際上已經註銷了 100% 的 Fisker 資產。因此，剩下的就是遞延收入，根據未來的發展情況，遞延收入將透過沒有相關成本的收入來實現。

Is there an expectation as to -- will that be like over a couple of quarters? Or will that hit in one quarter? I'm just curious how that will roll because that's obviously -- it could be pretty meaningful to EBIT.

是否有預期——這會持續幾季？或者會在一個季度內發生嗎？我只是好奇這將如何發展，因為這顯然對息稅前利潤非常有意義。

It really depends on Fisker themselves, John, and how they move their business forward. It's really too early to tell. That's why under the accounting rules, we're not able to take it until we have clarity from Fisker themselves.

這實際上取決於菲斯克本人，約翰，以及他們如何推動業務發展。現在說還太早。這就是為什麼根據會計規則，在菲斯克本人澄清之前我們無法接受。

Your next question comes from the line of Tamy Chen from BMO Capital Markets.

您的下一個問題來自 BMO 資本市場的 Tamy Chen。

Just wanted to go back on the Power & Vision. So it sounds like this quarter, just some timing of those items. I'm just thinking going forward, Swamy, I know you said in Q2 should be at least double, probably more than Q1. But should we think of them going forward will be kind of at that level? Or the timing of things like recoveries from launches could still cause some quarter-to-quarter volatility on the margin for Power & Vision?

只是想回到力量與願景。所以聽起來這個季度只是這些項目的一些時間安排。我只是想繼續前進，斯瓦米，我知道你說第二季度應該至少是兩倍，可能比第一季還要多。但我們是否應該認為他們未來會達到那個水準？或者，諸如發布恢復之類的事情的時機仍可能導致 Power & Vision 的利潤率出現一些季度波動？

I think you summarized it, the significant step change happens from Q1 to Q2. And we expect improvement from there, but if the volumes change or there is launch deferment from the customers and so on, that's an extraneous event, right? And that could create some. But as we see in our plan today, it's a more smoother cadence from second quarter with improvements into the third and fourth.

我認為您總結了這一點，重大的步驟變化發生在從第一季到第二季。我們預計會有所改善，但如果數量發生變化或客戶推遲發布等等，那就是一個無關的事件，對吧？這可能會創造一些。但正如我們在今天的計劃中看到的那樣，從第二季度開始節奏更加平穩，第三季和第四季有所改進。

Yes. And keep in mind, our outlook for Power & Vision for the year is unchanged, right, 5.5% to 6.1%. So you do the math, it implies that pretty good second half as well as a good second quarter.

是的。請記住，我們對今年 Power & Vision 的展望沒有變化，對吧，5.5% 至 6.1%。所以你算一下，這意味著下半場和第二季都不錯。

Yes. Got it. Okay. And I just wanted to go back to the holding an EBIT margin, even though you've got some of those other puts like Fisker coming out. I wanted to go back on that. So are you saying versus your loss side, you found additional operating efficiencies? Or is it the customer recoveries are coming in more than you had anticipated the last time you were talking about guidance?

是的。知道了。好的。我只是想回到持有息稅前利潤的情況，儘管你已經有了像菲斯克這樣的其他看跌期權。我想回頭再說一次。那麼您是說與損失方相比，您發現了額外的營運效率嗎？或者客戶的恢復率比您上次談論指導時的預期要多？

I think it's a combination of all of them, Tamy. When you look at a couple of the pieces, so you're correct. So we did -- when you go through the Fisker, the 25% decrementals on the margin holds the offsets when you go through a bunch of them. We have Swamy mentioned, we're focusing on engineering, and that number is coming down in the range of about $50 million. That's part of it.

我認為這是所有這些的結合，Tamy。當你看幾件作品時，你是對的。所以我們就這麼做了——當你瀏覽 Fisker 時，邊際上 25% 的減量會在你瀏覽一堆時保留偏移量。 Swamy 提到，我們專注於工程，這個數字正在下降到 5,000 萬美元左右。這是其中的一部分。

We do have a benefit on inflationary headwinds net. We're seeing some relief on the energy costs in Europe. It was a hotter summer. And we're also seeing some benefit on the semiconductors. So that's about a 10 basis point benefit. And then when you have some of the other puts and takes, we have -- Swamy also mentioned in the P&V and part of driving that margin to the back half of the year, some of the commercial benefits we've negotiated as the PL reflected, and that benefit is going to flow through in the back part of the year as the programs launch.

我們確實在通膨逆風方面受益匪淺。我們看到歐洲的能源成本下降。那是一個更炎熱的夏天。我們也看到半導體帶來了一些好處。所以這大約是 10 個基點的好處。然後，當你有其他一些看跌期權和看跌期權時，我們——斯瓦米也在 P&V 中提到了將利潤率推到下半年的部分內容，以及我們在 PL 中所協商的一些商業利益，隨著計畫的啟動，這種好處將在今年下半年體現出來。

And then the last piece, which is a little bit unusual was the G-Wagen pricing at Steyr. We talked at about a 10 basis point impact in February. The bill of materials that we see from Mercedes continues to change, and our sales reduction with no EBIT impact is about $350 million. So that benefit on a basis point is 5.

最後一個有點不尋常的是斯太爾的 G-Wagen 定價。我們在 2 月討論過 10 個基點的影響。我們從梅賽德斯看到的物料清單不斷變化，在不影響息稅前利潤的情況下，我們的銷售額減少了約 3.5 億美元。因此，基點收益為 5。

And then just more broadly, our focus on CIs and improvements at underperformance is -- it's always been intense, but I would say it's even more intense with all the changes that we're seeing in the industry right now.

更廣泛地說，我們對 CI 和表現不佳的改進的關註一直很強烈，但我想說，隨著我們目前在行業中看到的所有變化，這種關注更加強烈。

Okay. And how should we think about, with respect to CapEx, do you think there's a possibility to further lower it? Or it's difficult just given there's some -- there's commitment aspects that you can't change, and this provision is kind of what we can expect for most of the year going forward?

好的。我們應該如何考慮資本支出，您認為是否有可能進一步降低？或者說，鑑於有一些承諾方面是你無法改變的，而且這項規定是我們在未來一年的大部分時間裡可以期待的，所以這很困難？

So what you see, Tamy, lowering or bringing the range from a 2.5%, approximately to 2.4% to 2.5% is based on the information that we have. And we continue the efforts. There's like you said, some capital that's already in place. And if there is a change in volumes, it becomes a commercial discussion. It doesn't mean we stop. But on the other hand, on unlaunched programs, with the change in volumes, there would be opportunity, obviously, to bring down capital.

Tamy，你所看到的，將範圍從 2.5% 降低或提高到 2.4% 到 2.5% 是基於我們掌握的資訊。我們將繼續努力。就像你說的，有些資本已經到位。如果數量發生變化，就會成為商業討論。這並不意味著我們要停下來。但另一方面，對於未啟動的項目，隨著數量的變化，顯然有機會減少資本。

Your next question comes from the line of Mark Delaney from Goldman Sachs.

你的下一個問題來自高盛的馬克·德萊尼（Mark Delaney）。

Yes. I guess, first, I'd like to better understand what you're seeing in terms of customer production schedules regionally. I saw you left North America and Europe unchanged. You took up China but some of the other Tier 1s have talked about recent volatility in Europe. We've heard some of the European OEMs about some more difficult 1Q results. So would love to better understand what you may be seeing regionally, especially in Europe.

是的。我想，首先，我想更了解您所看到的區域客戶生產計劃。我看到你對北美和歐洲保持不變。您談到了中國，但其他一些一級機構也談到了歐洲最近的波動。我們聽說一些歐洲原始設備製造商講述了一些更困難的第一季結果。因此，我很想更深入了解您在該地區（尤其是歐洲）可能看到的情況。

Mark, I think as you saw, there's not a significant change in our set of assumptions in volumes that I've talked about. We see a change in the mix maybe from one side from -- to the other. But the overall units, we don't see a significant change. I mean, one program to the other, there is a little bit ups and downs, but we don't see anything significantly different than what we are projecting.

馬克，我認為正如你所看到的，我所討論的一系列假設並沒有發生重大變化。我們看到混合的變化可能是從一側到另一側。但就整體單位而言，我們沒有看到重大變化。我的意思是，一個計劃與另一個計劃之間存在一些起伏，但我們沒有看到任何與我們計劃的有顯著不同的東西。

Okay. And another question for you, Swamy. I'm trying to better understand how Magna wants to support and sell the new market entrants in the future. Over the last couple of years, there was a lot of focus on maybe selling them for an Apple car. Of course, you had your experience with Fisker. But now we've also seen in China, right, we've got Xiaomi and Huawei.

好的。還有一個問題要問你，斯瓦米。我正在努力更好地了解麥格納未來希望如何支持和銷售新的市場進入者。在過去的幾年裡，人們非常關注是否可以將它們出售給蘋果汽車。當然，您也有使用 Fisker 的經驗。但現在我們在中國也看到了，對吧，我們有小米和華為。

So what lessons has Magna learned with the Fisker business? And just better understand how Magna may try to partner and support those types of new market entrants, wherever they may be globally going forward, be it China, U.S., Europe, et cetera.

那麼麥格納從菲斯克業務中學到了哪些教訓呢？更了解麥格納如何嘗試與這些類型的新市場進入者合作並提供支持，無論他們在全球的任何地方，無論是中國、美國、歐洲等。

As we sit and look back, right, even in the past, the process of how we look at the business and we take is the same. We look at the viability of the product, the financial strength at that point when we are looking at the customer and just the overall acceptance possibly to the best we can in terms of the product. It's no different than that.

當我們坐下來回顧時，對吧，即使在過去，我們看待業務和採取行動的過程都是一樣的。當我們考慮客戶時，我們會考慮產品的可行性、財務實力，以及我們在產品方面可能達到的最佳整體接受度。與此沒有什麼不同。

We look at all of those things and assess the risk factors. We still believe, as we look at Steyr and complete vehicle assembly with maybe just not the new entrants, I would rather say it's -- as the market consolidation happens, as the transition from ICE to EV happens in a long process. Some of the OEMs are looking at niche vehicles. Some of the regions are looking to enter into new regions. All of this play into putting the pieces of the puzzle together. That's how we look at it. It's no different than how we go about with every program.

我們會考慮所有這些因素並評估風險因素。我們仍然相信，當我們審視斯太爾和整車組裝時，也許不僅僅是新進入者，我寧願說，隨著市場整合的發生，隨著從內燃機到電動車的過渡發生在一個漫長的過程中。一些原始設備製造商正在尋找小眾車輛。一些地區正在尋求進入新地區。所有這些都有助於將拼圖的各個部分拼湊在一起。我們就是這樣看的。這與我們處理每個程序的方式沒有什麼不同。

And we kind of look at some of the terms and conditions, which are very important. I think we talked in some cases, if it's an offshoot, do we have the guarantees from the parent company and what are the payment terms like all upfront payment of capital, number of days for payment and so on. It has been in place. I think it's -- we kind of give a more focused look on some of these companies that might be new.

我們會研究一些非常重要的條款和條件。我想我們在某些​​情況下討論過，如果是子公司，我們是否有母公司的擔保，付款條件是什麼，例如所有預付資本、付款天數等等。它已經就位了。我認為，我們更加關注其中一些可能是新的公司。

Your next question comes from the line of Itay Michaeli from Citi.

您的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Itay Michaeli。

Just on the first question, kind of going back to margins for the rest of the year. I was hoping you can give a little bit more color how you expect total company margin cadence the rest of the year? And maybe just as a point of clarification, is the deferred revenue assumed to be released in this year in the guidance?

關於第一個問題，有點回到今年剩餘時間的利潤率。我希望您能提供更多信息，您對今年剩餘時間公司總利潤率的預期如何？也許需要澄清的是，指導意見中是否假設今年會發布遞延收入？

It's Pat. I'll cover the deferred revenue 1 first or guidance does not include any impact of deferred revenue. So the way it's being reflected is it's on the balance sheet at December of 2024.

是帕特。我將首先介紹遞延收入 1，或指導不包括遞延收入的任何影響。因此，它的反映方式是在 2024 年 12 月的資產負債表上。

On the cadence of margins, I think the cadence is, I would say, fairly similar to last year. When you think about what's happening in the industry, Swamy's gone through the P&V segment. But when you go by segment, I would say when you look at our BES segment, it's going to follow the similar pattern to what we have seen last year. We're seeing it's fairly consistent first half to second half. We have some improvements, but that's being driven primarily by recoveries of inflation. They tend to be clustered more in the back half of the year and then also some of the CI activities just as programs launch and get that benefit.

就利潤節奏而言，我認為節奏與去年相當相似。當您思考該行業正在發生的事情時，Swamy 就經歷了 P&V 領域。但是，當您按細分市場劃分時，我想說，當您查看我們的 BES 細分市場時，它將遵循與我們去年看到的類似模式。我們看到上半場和下半場的表現相當一致。我們取得了一些進展，但這主要是由通膨復甦推動的。它們往往更集中在下半年，然後在計畫啟動並獲得收益時也會進行一些 CI 活動。

When you look at the P&V segment, I think Swamy covered it in detail, but it's -- again, it's the inflation. They tend to come in the back part of the year, and that explains part of the delta from Q4 of 2023 into Q1 of 2024. And then as Louis said, you can see the benefit as we come up into the back part of the year.

當你看 P&V 部分時，我認為 Swamy 詳細介紹了它，但它又是通貨膨脹。它們往往出現在今年下半年，這解釋了從 2023 年第四季到 2024 年第一季的部分增量。

The other part of it is we -- as Swamy said, we do have some commercial pricing that kicks in, in the back part of the year. And then we talked about the $50 million engineering spend reduction. That's primarily coming through the P&V segment. Again, it sequentially gets better quarter-by-quarter and then again, the operational benefits as programs launch. So you see that benefit coming through in the back half of the year. Seating is pretty consistent. And I think on the complete vehicles, it's a Fisker issue that we've discussed.

另一部分是我們——正如斯瓦米所說，我們確實有一些商業定價，將在今年下半年開始實施。然後我們討論了 5000 萬美元的工程支出削減。這主要來自 P&V 部門。同樣，它會逐季度地變得更好，然後隨著計劃的啟動，營運效益也會變得更好。所以你會看到這種好處將在今年下半年顯現出來。座位相當一致。我認為就整車而言，我們已經討論過菲斯克問題。

And Pat, I think just to add a little bit more color like we did in P&V. If you look from a Q1 to Q2, typically, we don't talk quarter-by-quarter. But just to give you a little bit color we see north of 5% going into Q2 and sequential going forward.

帕特，我想只是添加一點顏色，就像我們在 P&V 中所做的那樣。如果你從第一季到第二季來看，通常我們不會逐季討論。但為了讓您了解一些情況，我們看到第二季和後續的成長將超過 5%。

That's very helpful. And just a second question, and apologies if I missed it earlier, but can you talk a bit more about the active safety volume declines assumed in the guidance now? And any changes of your thinking for active safety over the next couple of years?

這非常有幫助。還有第二個問題，如果我之前錯過了，我深表歉意，但是您能多談談現在指南中假設的主動安全量下降嗎？未來幾年您對主動安全的想法有何改變？

Yes. If you just look at the overall going into '26 and '27, I would say it's not a material change. The volume change or the revenue change that we talked about in the short term in '24, '25 is really related to program ramp trajectory being a little bit slower significantly, that is one. And some of the deferred launches, I would say, is the second aspect. And the third one is the in-sourcing of programs more specifically related to China. And as we look at that, we are obviously looking at the offset in terms of engineering and other spending in that, specifically in ADAS, but generally in P&V to keep our focus on getting to the megatrend profitability going forward.

是的。如果你只看26年和27年的整體情況，我會說這不是一個重大變化。我們在 24 年、25 年短期內討論的數量變化或收入變化確實與計劃斜坡軌跡顯著放緩有關，這就是其中之一。我想說，一些推遲的發布是第二個方面。第三個是與中國更具體相關的項目的內包。當我們看到這一點時，我們顯然正在考慮工程和其他支出方面的抵消，特別是在 ADAS 方面，但總體上在 P&V 方面，以保持我們專注於實現未來的大趨勢盈利能力。

Your next question comes from the line of Joseph Spak from UBS Securities.

您的下一個問題來自瑞銀證券 (UBS Securities) 的約瑟夫·斯帕克 (Joseph Spak)。

I guess to start, Swamy, you talked about some restructuring. We've seen a number of other suppliers also begin to really restructure, particularly more in Europe as the volumes there makes it seem like they're going to be potentially structurally lower.

我想首先，斯瓦米，你談到了一些重組。我們看到許多其他供應商也開始真正重組，尤其是在歐洲，因為那裡的銷售看起來可能會在結構上降低。

So I was wondering if you could just spend a couple of minutes talking a little bit more about how you feel about your footprint maybe very specifically in Europe also and how you're going to evaluate going forward restructuring opportunities.

所以我想知道您是否可以花幾分鐘多談談您對您在歐洲的足跡的感受，以及您將如何評估未來的重組機會。

Yes. I think it's a good question. With what's happening in the industry, for us, it's, I would say, normal course of business, right? Some of the reductions or optimization as you look at -- we are not really focused on just overall headcount reduction. I think the way I look at it is what is the cost structure of the business to be able to hit the margins that we're talking about. Part of that obviously means flexing direct labor in various locations, and we have been doing that over the last 6 months. So it's not a one-step change discussion for us.

是的。我認為這是一個好問題。從產業中發生的事情來看，對我們來說，這是正常的業務流程，對嗎？正如你所看到的，一些削減或優化——我們並不是真正關注整體員工人數的減少。我認為我看待這個問題的方式是能夠達到我們正在討論的利潤率的業務成本結構是什麼。其中一部分顯然意味著在不同地點靈活安排直接勞動力，過去 6 個月我們一直在這樣做。因此，這對我們來說不是一次性變革的討論。

More specifically, if you are looking at a program like Fisker that we talked about, that type of restructuring is a little bit different. We have talked about certain divisions being restructured over the last year or so, and that is a normal course, and we are continuing to look at that. This is all part of the operational excellence activities that we generally look at, right, which is headcount reduction of overheads, SG&A.

更具體地說，如果您正在查看像我們討論的 Fisker 這樣的計劃，那麼這種類型的重組有點不同。我們已經討論過在過去一年左右的時間裡某些部門正在重組，這是正常的過程，我們正在繼續關注這一點。這是我們通常關注的卓越營運活動的一部分，對吧，就是減少管理費用、SG&A。

Looking at more focus on continuous improvements, looking at recoveries, commercial discipline. All of this is how we are able to say we are offsetting the inflation headwinds by the 10 basis points that we talked about. We are talking about the capital discipline, that's how we are able to reduce the capital. We are looking at every engineering program and its relevance now and going forward, that's a reduction on the engineering spend.

更加關注持續改善、恢復情況和商業紀律。所有這些都是我們如何能夠說我們正在抵消我們所說的 10 個基點的通膨阻力。我們正在談論資本紀律，這就是我們能夠減少資本的方式。我們正在研究每個工程項目及其相關性，現在和未來，這都會減少工程支出。

So I think it's all encompassing. I wouldn't say it's just focused on headcount. So again, this is all efforts towards margin expansion, and that's one of the reasons why we are able to keep the margin outlook for '24, and we feel comfortable looking forward into '25 and '26.

所以我認為這是包羅萬象的。我不會說它只關注員工人數。再說一次，這都是為了擴大利潤率所做的努力，這也是我們能夠維持 24 年利潤率前景的原因之一，並且我們對 25 和 26 年充滿信心。

Okay. And maybe just as a second question. Last quarter, you talked about an EV win in the Southern U.S. I was wondering if you could sort of provide an updated view from your perspective, given that there's obviously been a lot of noise in the market around that potential program.

好的。也許只是作為第二個問題。上個季度，您談到了電動車在美國南部的勝利。

Yes. Difficult to comment without the customers talking, right? We don't comment specifically on the programs. But as we get to a little bit more clarity, we'll start seeing what it means to CapEx and revenue going forward, we'll keep you posted.

是的。如果沒有客戶的發言很難發表評論，對嗎？我們不會對這些計劃具體發表評論。但隨著我們變得更加清晰，我們將開始了解這對未來的資本支出和收入意味著什麼，我們會及時通知您。

Have you changed any of your internal plans yet?

您是否改變過任何內部計劃？

Not at this point to comment.

目前不發表評論。

I think certainly, Joe, just for perspective, we do an annual planning once per year on a 3-year forward basis, and we're updating '24. So I think it's a little premature to say we've updated weather out to '25, '26. We'll kick that off through the summer.

我想當然，喬，只是為了長遠考慮，我們每年都會在 3 年的基礎上進行年度規劃，並且我們正在更新“24”。因此，我認為現在說我們已將天氣更新到 25、26 年還為時過早。我們將在整個夏天開始這項工作。

Your next question comes from the line of Dan Levy from Barclays.

您的下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的 Dan Levy。

I wanted to start first with a question on complete vehicles. Can you just give us a sense on the go-forward strategy across -- assuming the Fisker Ocean is no longer going to be in production and you now have spare capacity, what is the process to get that capacity allocated to other automakers? What's the cost? What's the confidence that other automakers will take up that capacity and the timing around that?

我想先問一個關於整車的問題。您能給我們介紹一下未來的策略嗎？ 假設菲斯克海洋不再生產，而您現在有閒置產能，那麼將產能分配給其他汽車製造商的流程是什麼？費用是多少？其他汽車製造商將佔用該產能以及相關時間表的信心有多大？

I think as we look at the current status, we are still looking at in 2024 producing roughly about 70,000 units or so. One of the key things that we have always talked about is the flexibility in the process to be able to and handle multiple volumes in the same line, whether it's ICE or EV or different types of vehicle segments. So that gives the, call it the speed to be able to change over and address as we get opportunities.

我認為，從目前的狀況來看，我們仍然預計 2024 年產量約為 70,000 輛左右。我們一直在談論的關鍵事情之一是流程的靈活性，能夠在同一生產線上處理多個卷，無論是內燃機還是電動車或不同類型的車輛領域。因此，這就是我們在獲得機會時能夠轉變和解決問題的速度。

But I think as you rightly said, one, we've got to first be clear from an obligations perspective of what capacity needs to be kept versus when it's released and how we can use it. All of that comes into the equation. There is multiple conversations on different customers, I would say, mature customers or new ideas. And we continue to look at that.

但我認為正如您所說的，第一，我們必須先從義務的角度明確需要保留哪些能力、何時釋放哪些能力以及我們如何使用它。所有這些都納入考慮範圍。我想說的是，針對不同的客戶進行多次對話，成熟的客戶或新的想法。我們將繼續關注這一點。

So we've clearly indicated there is a, call it, a lull in the 2026 time frame. And this business is typically lumpy. So it's not very unnatural to have a low point and then get back to what we need to get to. That's what we are going through, but there's a lot of conversations on that topic to see how we can address the existing capacity. And like the total capacity is in the range of [1 50, 1 60], roughly, right? And we are [70] there with a lot of conversations ongoing.

因此，我們已經明確表示 2026 年時間範圍內會有一段平靜期。而且這項業務通常是不穩定的。因此，經歷一個低點然後回到我們需要達到的目標並不是很不自然。這就是我們正在經歷的事情，但是有很多關於這個主題的對話，看看我們如何解決現有的容量問題。總容量大概在 [1 50, 1 60] 範圍內，對吧？我們 [70] 正在進行很多對話。

Is drop being looked at by other automakers as an opportunity to fill some of the EV value where maybe they have a bit more of an uncertain outlook, so it's more of a stop gap for them rather than dedicating their own capacity to it?

其他汽車製造商是否將降價視為填補部分電動車價值的機會，因為他們的前景可能更加不確定，因此這對他們來說更像是權宜之計，而不是投入自己的能力？

Yes. Like I said, a lot of conversations with different customers not just in terms of EV, but EV or ICE, sometimes it's volume leveling, sometimes it's varying discussion. So it's a combination of the two, it's not specific to EV. It's more open, again, going back to the ability that we have, the flexibility to do different models of the same line and be able to do that quickly. There is a whole bunch of conversations on that topic, yes.

是的。就像我說的，與不同客戶的許多對話不僅涉及電動車，還涉及電動車或內燃機車，有時是音量調節，有時是不同的討論。所以它是兩者的結合，而不是特定於電動車。它更加開放，再次回到我們擁有的能力，能夠靈活地生產同一生產線的不同模型，並且能夠快速做到這一點。是的，關於這個主題有很多對話。

Okay. Great. And then as a follow-up, wondering if you could just talk to, within the revenue base, the ICE versus EV split. I believe in the past, you made a comment that something like 20% of your revenue is on EV programs of some sort. What is the trajectory of that? Are you seeing any softening in that -- are there offsets from better ICE? And then maybe you could just provide a quick comment on your DCT, which presumably benefiting from a better hybrid outlook?

好的。偉大的。然後作為後續行動，想知道您是否可以在收入基礎內討論 ICE 與 EV 的劃分。我相信您過去曾評論過，您的收入的 20% 左右是在某種電動車項目上。那它的軌跡是怎麼樣的呢？您是否看到這方面有任何軟化——更好的 ICE 是否有抵消作用？然後也許您可以對您的 DCT 進行快速評論，它可能會受益於更好的混合動力前景？

Yes, I think there is 2 parts of the question. Generally, I would say, in the short term, if we look at '24, obviously, different regions have different EV penetrations. And overall, as Magna, if you look at it, we would be aligned with the overall EV market to the global market in 2024.

是的，我認為這個問題有兩個部分。一般來說，我想說，從短期來看，如果我們看看 24 年，顯然不同地區的電動車滲透率不同。總的來說，作為麥格納，如果你看一下，我們將在 2024 年與整個電動車市場和全球市場保持一致。

And as we go out into the future years, we are more indexed in North America, as you know, 50% of our sales is in North America roughly. So we might have a higher index of EV in North America. But if you look globally, I think further out is difficult to say as volumes are changing and we -- and as Pat said, as we go through the planning process, we'll come back and be able to give you a little bit more clarity on that. That's one part of it.

隨著我們進入未來幾年，我們將更多地在北美建立索引，如您所知，我們大約 50% 的銷售額來自北美。因此，北美的電動車指數可能更高。但如果你放眼全球，我認為進一步的情況很難說，因為數量正在發生變化，而且正如帕特所說，當我們完成規劃過程時，​​我們會回來並能夠為你提供更多對此的澄清。這是其中的一部分。

So pretty aligned in the short term as we look out in the mid and long term, a little bit more index in North America, under indexed in China and Europe. But if you look at the DCT, I think the question you asked, there are certain programs where we have both sides of the equation. That means we are on the same platform supplying the ICE version, DCT or the hybrid DCT or the eDrive.

因此，從短期來看，我們從中長期來看，北美的指數增加，而中國和歐洲的指數較低。但如果你看 DCT，我認為你問的問題，在某些程式中我們有等式的兩邊。這意味著我們在同一平台上提供 ICE 版本、DCT 或混合 DCT 或 eDrive。

So if there is ups and downs on this, it will be neutral to us. It's a good thing. But it doesn't apply to all programs, obviously. So we do see, if the ICE continues, to have the volumes and have an uptick, we will see that in our DCT programs that we have.

因此，如果這方面有起伏，對我們來說是中性的。這是一件好事。但顯然，它並不適用於所有程序。因此，我們確實看到，如果 ICE 繼續保持銷售並有所上升，我們將在我們的 DCT 計劃中看到這一點。

Your next question is from the line of Krista Friesen from CIBC.

您的下一個問題來自 CIBC 的 Krista Friesen。

I was wondering if you could just give us a little bit more detail on what the conversations are like with some of your customers who are maybe adjusting their EV strategies and if you're able to get any recoveries at all or if that's kind of out of the question and if that impacts how you structure kind of your contracts going forward.

我想知道您是否可以向我們提供更多有關與您的一些客戶的對話的詳細信息，這些客戶可能正在調整他們的電動汽車策略，以及您是否能夠獲得任何恢復，或者這是否有點出局問題的答案，以及這是否會影響您未來建立合約的方式。

Yes. For sure, the discussions are on. And in cases -- in some cases, we actually had the commercial recoveries already. Like I said at the beginning of my comments, in some cases, the OEMs are actually coming in with the capital upfront, which reduces the risk. In some cases, where we had a certain set of assumptions on volumes, and we had the capital invested, we had recoveries and those discussions continue going forward.

是的。可以肯定的是，討論正在進行中。在某些情況下，我們實際上已經進行了商業回收。就像我在評論開始時所說的那樣，在某些情況下，原始設備製造商實際上是預先提供資金的，這降低了風險。在某些情況下，如果我們對數量有一套特定的假設，並且我們進行了資本投資，我們就得到了回收，並且這些討論仍在繼續進行。

We are also looking, as I said before, how we look at these programs, whether it's volume banding, whether it's in our front payments or at least have the framework to have a discussion given. All this said, more importantly, also, we have our own view of looking at what we think the volumes could be on the project, although we have to meet the customer requirements in the run rates and be ready to give that volumes, that's where -- how we think in terms of flexibility and modularity and all of that stuff. So it's managing that. So that's where a lot of this, call it, process knowledge and continuous improvement as well as the operational excellence planning comes into play.

正如我之前所說，我們也在研究如何看待這些計劃，無論是數量範圍，還是我們的預付款，或至少有一個討論的框架。所有這一切都說，更重要的是，我們對專案的數量有自己的看法，儘管我們必須滿足客戶對運行率的要求並準備好提供該數量，這就是——我們如何思考靈活性和模組化以及所有這些東西。所以它正在管理這個。因此，這就是流程知識、持續改進以及卓越營運規劃發揮作用的地方。

Sorry, I'll just add to that, Swamy. I think Krista, if you think about -- when we think about EVs, we have strategy depending on product group. So if you start thinking about higher capital type programs, whether it's a battery tray or a frame, we're making decisions now for the next 3 years. We're making decisions on Gen2, Gen3, and that's the history we've had on these capital-intensive products or highly-engineered products. So I think it's -- there's a lot of noise in the media right now about EVs, particularly in North America. But we're looking much longer than the next 3-year time horizon, and we're making decisions based on our view of where the industry is going to be long term. And as Swamy said, EVs are coming, and it's a matter of picking the right platforms and the right customers.

抱歉，我會補充一點，斯瓦米。我認為克里斯塔，如果你想一想——當我們考慮電動車時，我們的策略取決於產品組。因此，如果您開始考慮更高資本類型的項目，無論是電池托盤還是框架，我們現在正在為未來 3 年做出決定。我們正在對第二代、第三代做出決策，這就是我們在這些資本密集型產品或高度工程化產品上的歷史。所以我認為，現在媒體上有很多關於電動車的噪音，尤其是在北美。但我們的目光遠比未來 3 年的時間範圍要長得多，我們正在根據我們對產業長期發展的看法做出決策。正如斯瓦米所說，電動車即將到來，關鍵在於選擇合適的平台和合適的客戶。

Your next question comes from the line of Colin Langan from Wells Fargo.

您的下一個問題來自富國銀行的 Colin Langan。

I just wanted to follow up, make sure I fully capture all the changes in guidance. So on the sales side, at the midpoint, guidance has cut $1.2 billion. So that split $400 million for Fisker, $350 million is the G-Wagen which is just pass-through with no margin and then there's 450-ish from launch delays.

我只是想跟進，確保我完全掌握了指導中的所有變化。因此，在銷售方面，指導意見中位數削減了 12 億美元。因此，Fisker 分得 4 億美元，其中 3.5 億美元是 G-Wagen，它只是直通車，沒有利潤，還有 450 美元左右是由於上市延遲造成的。

And then the EBIT cut at the midpoint was like $135 million, so about 100-ish from the Fisker impact. Maybe if you have contributions on that $450 million of lost sales, that's maybe 20% contribution, maybe $190 million, $90 million-ish maybe? And then the offsets to that are going to be about $50 million in lower engineering and then the input cost, which I guess is 10 basis points or maybe $40 million-ish. Are those the main puts and takes that we should be thinking about?

然後中間的息稅前利潤削減了大約 1.35 億美元，大約是菲斯克影響的 100 美元左右。也許如果你對 4.5 億美元的銷售損失做出了貢獻，那可能是 20%，也許是 1.9 億美元，也許是 9,000 萬美元左右？然後，抵銷金額將是大約 5000 萬美元的較低工程費用，然後是投入成本，我猜是 10 個基點，或者可能是 4000 萬美元左右。這些是我們應該考慮的主要看跌期權嗎？

Let's just deal with the sales first, Colin it, if that's okay. So Fisker 400-ish is correct, the G-Wagen, just pure flow-through is the $350 million you mentioned. The one on that number that I didn't hear was foreign exchange headwind of about $200 million, which should have a corporate average type margin, most likely. And so that adds those number -- those 3 numbers add up to the $950 million of the $1.2 billion. So your balance is $350 million-ish of delta -- $250 million, sorry. And that's a combination of volumes launches, offset in part by some of the delays we're seeing in the ADAS space, but at net-net.

讓我們先處理銷售吧，科林，如果可以的話。所以 Fisker 400 左右是正確的，G-Wagen，純粹的流通就是你提到的 3.5 億美元。我沒有聽到的數字是大約 2 億美元的外匯逆風，這很可能是企業平均類型的利潤。因此，將這些數字相加——這 3 個數字加起來就是 12 億美元中的 9.5 億美元。所以你的餘額是 3.5 億美元左右的增量——抱歉，是 2.5 億美元。這是批量發布的組合，部分被我們在 ADAS 領域看到的一些延遲所抵消，但在網路上。

And then on the EBIT walk side, I think we talked so the G-Wagen, Fisker, we talked about the 25 basis point headwind. We have the pickup then on G-Wagen is about 5 basis points. We then talk about the benefit of about 10 basis points on the inflationary pieces. Engineering spend is the 50 Swamy had mentioned. And then we have some commercial pricing pickups in the back half that are going to flow through, which is in the range of about 20 basis points. So those are the big drivers. And then obviously, the offset is just the lower sales of the $250 million net.

然後在息稅前利潤方面，我想我們談論了 G-Wagen、Fisker，我們談論了 25 個基點的逆風。我們在 G-Wagen 的皮卡率大約是 5 個基點。然後我們討論大約 10 個基點對通貨膨脹因素的好處。工程支出是Swamy 提到的50。然後我們會在下半年看到一些商業定價的上漲，幅度約為 20 個基點。所以這些都是主要的驅動因素。顯然，抵消的只是 2.5 億美元淨銷售額的較低部分。

Got it. That's very helpful to put it all together. Okay. And then just going back to the prior question about the EV programs because there was a very large paragraph in the release on those programs. Do you not have minimum contract commitments in your -- in some of these programs where if you don't hit certain volumes, you actually would be qualified to get some recovery. I don't know how common that is or if it's just hard to actually enforce those kinds of clauses...

知道了。將它們放在一起非常有幫助。好的。然後回到之前關於電動車項目的問題，因為新聞稿中有很大一段關於這些項目的內容。在某些計劃中，您是否沒有最低合約承諾，如果您沒有達到一定的數量，您實際上有資格獲得一些恢復。我不知道這種情況有多常見，或者實際上執行這些條款是否很難...

So Colin, it normally, we don't have minimum volume guarantees or volume guarantees, right? These are all discussions, like I said, in figuring out as we look at specific programs. But as normal course in the industry, we have a volume set and we work through that. There is risk and opportunity, but no guarantees.

那麼科林，通常情況下，我們沒有最低數量保證或數量保證，對吧？正如我所說，這些都是在我們研究具體計劃時進行的討論。但作為行業的正常過程，我們已經設定了一個卷，我們正在努力解決這個問題。風險與機會並存，但沒有保證。

There is some in terms of like Pat talked about, like big (inaudible) investment, which is a discussion with the customer and more specific to those programs rather than a general rule. And some changes going forward -- sorry, some changes going forward as we look at these big programs and having conversations, but those are more exceptions than a rule.

有一些像帕特談到的那樣，例如大（聽不清楚）投資，這是與客戶的討論，並且更具體地針對這些計劃而不是一般規則。未來會發生一些變化——抱歉，當我們研究這些大型專案並進行對話時，會發生一些變化，但這些更多的是例外，而不是規則。

Your next question comes from the line of Michael Glen from Raymond James.

您的下一個問題來自雷蒙德詹姆斯 (Raymond James) 的邁克爾格倫 (Michael Glen)。

Swamy, first, can you give an update on the Veoneer acquisition, how it's tracking, how sales are tracking and your outlook for the programs there? Are they coming in as expected, the volumes?

Swamy，首先，您能否介紹一下 Veoneer 收購的最新情況、其追蹤情況、銷售情況以及您對該專案的前景？它們的產量是否符合預期？

Yes. Michael, I think we talked about Veoneer. I think as we go forward, it's I would say, an integrated business into our own electronics business, so we see that as one. But understand your question. We talked about the $70 million plus in synergies on a run rate basis by end of 2025. I can confirm that we are on track for it. It could be that.

是的。邁克爾，我想我們談論過 Veoneer。我認為，隨著我們的前進，我想說的是，將業務整合到我們自己的電子業務中，所以我們將其視為一個整體。但理解你的問題。我們討論了到 2025 年底按運行率計算將實現 7000 萬美元以上的協同效應。可能是這樣。

As we look at your question about the sales, we talked about the lower sales this year, but that's not specific to Veoneer. It is overall with program in-sourcing and some delays and some ramp-up trajectory being different. Going into '26, we still feel comfortable with the overall projections. There is no material difference to what we've been talking about.

當我們考慮您有關銷售額的問題時，我們談到了今年銷售額的下降，但這並不是 Veoneer 特有的。總體而言，專案是內包的，並且有一些延遲和一些上升軌跡有所不同。進入 26 年，我們仍然對整體預測感到滿意。這與我們一直在談論的內容沒有實質區別。

So overall, pretty comfortable with how we are looking at it. Like I said, obviously, the sales drop that we see right now for various reasons, we are continuing to monitor and see what we can do in terms of investments and engineering spend and so on and so forth.

總的來說，我們對它的看法非常滿意。就像我說的，顯然，我們現在由於各種原因看到銷售額下降，我們正在繼續監控並看看我們在投資和工程支出等方面可以做些什麼。

Okay. And just to come back on the -- I think you're referring to -- you're referring to $50 million of reduced engineering. So is that specific to the megatrend spending amounts that we think about? Is that applied to the $1.2 billion of megatrend spending?

好的。回到——我想你指的是——你指的是減少了 5000 萬美元的工程費用。那麼這是否針對我們所考慮的大趨勢支出金額？這是否適用於 12 億美元的大趨勢支出？

That's correct, Michael. And I would say it's largely to the megatrend areas, right? Significant, I would say. So yes, it is applied to the $1.2 billion.

是的，邁克爾。我想說這主要是針對大趨勢領域，對吧？我想說，意義重大。所以是的，它適用於 12 億美元。

Okay. And then just on the balance of the megatrend spending, are you making an active assessment of that total amount? Should -- is there a potential that we think about further downward revisions on the megatrend spending in subsequent quarters?

好的。然後，就大趨勢支出的平衡而言，您是否正在積極評估該總額？我們是否應該考慮在接下來的幾季進一步下調大趨勢支出？

Yes. It will be a little up and down, as you see. To answer your question, clearly, yes, we're constantly looking at it. We have been able to quantify the $50 million, but we won't stop there. We'll continue to look at it.

是的。正如你所看到的，它會有點上下。明確地回答你的問題，是的，我們一直在關注它。我們已經能夠量化這 5000 萬美元，但我們不會就此止步。我們將繼續關注。

The reason I'm saying it goes up and down a little is we have to look at the application that's being done on the programs that we have and continue to have and protect the future. Like Pat said, we are looking at this not for this year and next year, what does it mean for the long term of Magna that we have to keep an eye on for sure. But we are continuing to look at everything that's in place and how we can optimize it. So that's going to be a key focus area for us.

我之所以說它有一點上下波動，是因為我們必須審視我們現有和繼續擁有的程式上正在執行的應用程序，並保護未來。正如帕特所說，我們關注的不是今年和明年，這對麥格納的長期發展意味著什麼，我們必須密切關注。但我們正在繼續研究現有的一切以及如何對其進行最佳化。因此，這將成為我們的重點領域。

And that concludes our Q&A session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Swamy for closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將會議轉回給斯瓦米致閉幕詞。

So thanks, everyone, for listening in today. As I said, we remain highly focused on flawless launches of new business, cost containment across the company and obtaining commercial recoveries, all of which should contribute to our roadmap of margin expansion and free cash flow generation.

謝謝大家今天的收聽。正如我所說，我們仍然高度關注新業務的完美推出、整個公司的成本控制以及獲得商業回收，所有這些都應有助於我們的利潤擴張和自由現金流產生的路線圖。

Thanks for listening, and have a great day.

感謝您的聆聽，祝您有美好的一天。

This concludes today's conference call. Enjoy the rest of your day. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。享受你一天剩下的時間。您現在可以斷開連線。