Magna International Inc (MGA) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Q3 2022 results. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded today, Friday, November 3, 2023.

您好，歡迎來到 2022 年第三季的業績。 （操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次會議將於今天（2023 年 11 月 3 日星期五）錄製。

I would now like to turn the conference over now to Louis Tonelli, Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go right ahead.

我現在想將會議交給投資者關係副總裁路易斯·託內利 (Louis Tonelli)。請往前走。

Thanks, Tommy. Hello, everyone, and welcome to our conference call covering our third quarter of 2023. Joining me today are Swamy Kotagiri and Pat McCann. Yesterday, our Board of Directors met and approved our financial results for the third quarter of 2023 as well as our updated '23 outlook. We issued a press release this morning outlining our results. You'll find the press release, today's conference call webcast, the slide presentations go along with the call and our updated quarterly financial review all in the Investor Relations section of our website at magna.com.

謝謝，湯米。大家好，歡迎參加我們 2023 年第三季的電話會議。今天加入我的是 Swamy Kotagiri 和 Pat McCann。昨天，我們的董事會召開會議並批准了 2023 年第三季的財務表現以及更新的 23 年展望。我們今天早上發布了一份新聞稿，概述了我們的結果。您可以在我們網站 Magna.com 的投資者關係部分找到新聞稿、今天的電話會議網路廣播、電話會議的幻燈片演示以及更新的季度財務回顧。

Before we get started, just as a reminder, the discussion today may contain forward-looking information or forward-looking statements within the meaning of applicable securities legislation. Such statements involve certain risks, assumptions and uncertainties which may cause the company's actual or future results and performance to be materially different than those expressed or implied in these statements. Please refer to today's press release for a complete description of our safe harbor disclaimer. Please also refer to the reminder slides included in our presentation that relates to our commentary today.

在我們開始之前，提醒一下，今天的討論可能包含適用證券立法含義內的前瞻性資訊或前瞻性陳述。此類陳述涉及某些風險、假設和不確定性，可能導致公司的實際或未來結果和績效與這些陳述中明示或暗示的結果和績效有重大差異。請參閱今天的新聞稿，以了解我們安全港免責聲明的完整說明。另請參閱我們的簡報中包含的與我們今天的評論相關的提醒幻燈片。

And with that, I'll pass it over to Swamy.

接下來，我會將其交給 Swamy。

Thank you, Louis. Good morning, everyone. I appreciate you all joining our call today as we share our third quarter earnings results. Before I share some of the details, I want to thank my team for their continued progress and solid results. So let's get started.

謝謝你，路易斯。大家，早安。感謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議，分享我們第三季的獲利結果。在分享一些細節之前，我要感謝我的團隊不斷的進步和紮實的成果。那麼就讓我們開始吧。

Some key highlights to mention before I dive into the details. Our organic sales grew by 10% year-over-year surpassing weighted production by 4%, excluding complete vehicles and 2%, including complete vehicles. Our third quarter showcased strong operating performance with higher organic sales once again contributing to robust earnings that represented a significant improvement year-over-year. We continue to benefit from our activities in operational excellence and cost containments leading to improved margins.

在深入細節之前，需要提及一些關鍵要點。我們的有機銷售額年增 10%，加權產量年增 4%（不包括整車）和 2%（包括整車）。我們的第三季展現了強勁的經營業績，有機銷售額的增加再次促成了強勁的盈利，與去年同期相比顯著改善。我們繼續受益於我們在卓越營運和成本控制方面的活動，從而提高了利潤率。

We have raised our 2023 adjusted EBIT margin and adjusted net income outlook ranges for 2023, demonstrating solid operating performance even with the negative impact of the UAW strike in the third and fourth quarters. And we recently announced our commitment to achieving net zero across Magna by 2050.

我們上調了 2023 年調整後息稅前利潤率和 2023 年調整後淨利潤前景範圍，表明即使在第三和第四季度受到 UAW 罷工的負面影響，我們仍表現出穩健的經營業績。我們最近宣布承諾到 2050 年在整個麥格納實現淨零排放。

Our industry continues to experience incremental improvements, including reduced supply constraints, stronger and more stable production schedules and resilient auto sales in a number of markets. However, the global economy continues to face some interlocking challenges, including continuing elevated labor inflation, higher interest rates, geopolitical risks and slowing economic growth. These challenges are impacting our entire industry.

我們的行業繼續經歷漸進式的改進，包括減少供應限制、更強大、更穩定的生產計劃以及許多市場的汽車銷售彈性。然而，全球經濟持續面臨一些相互關聯的挑戰，包括勞動力通膨持續上升、利率上升、地緣政治風險和經濟成長放緩。這些挑戰正在影響我們整個產業。

In North America, the (inaudible) experienced UAW labor stoppages for about 6 weeks, which cost the industry approximately 220,000 units. The UAW has now reached tentative agreements with all 3 OEMs, which need to be ratified. Our outlook reflects the full extent of the strike.

在北美，（聽不清楚）UAW 停工約 6 週，導致業界損失約 22 萬輛。 UAW 目前已與所有 3 家 OEM 廠商達成了暫定協議，需要獲得批准。我們的前景反映了罷工的全部範圍。

We remain highly focused on containing costs and improving our margins. This is being achieved through ongoing operational improvement and cost recovery initiatives as well as executing flawless launches across Magna.

我們仍然高度關注控製成本和提高利潤。這是透過持續的營運改進和成本回收計劃以及在麥格納執行完美的發布來實現的。

At our virtual investor event in September, we provided an update on the progress of our go-forward strategy. Our ongoing investments in mega-trend areas are driving significant growth over the coming years, including 35-plus percent in powertrain electrification, 75-plus percent in battery enclosures and 45-plus percent in active safety. Most importantly, our portfolio is substantially aligned with the Car of the Future, which we expect to drive sales growth regardless of the pace of powertrain electrification. Where possible, we are working to mitigate risks, including by installing capital in tranches and employing different cost sharing models with our customers.

在 9 月的虛擬投資者活動中，我們提供了有關前進策略進展的最新資訊。我們在大趨勢領域的持續投資將推動未來幾年的顯著成長，包括動力總成電氣化領域超過 35%、電池外殼領域超過 75% 以及主動安全領域超過 45%。最重要的是，我們的產品組合與未來汽車基本一致，無論動力總成電氣化的步伐如何，我們預計未來汽車都將推動銷售成長。在可能的情況下，我們正在努力降低風險，包括分批安裝資本以及與客戶採用不同的成本分攤模式。

At the same time, we have been accelerating our activities around operational excellence to ensure we remain at the forefront of manufacturing and exceeding our customers' expectations in all areas. We expect about 150 basis points of margin expansion from our collective efforts here, including about half that amount this year. And we are leveraging capabilities that already exist within Magna to unlock opportunities with new models and markets as they develop. It is early days for us in this area, but we have already had some traction.

同時，我們一直在加快圍繞卓越營運的活動，以確保我們始終處於製造業的前沿，並在所有領域超越客戶的期望。我們預計，透過我們的集體努力，利潤率將擴大約 150 個基點，其中今年的增幅約為一半。我們正在利用麥格納現有的能力，隨著新車型和市場的發展釋放機會。我們在這一領域還處於早期階段，但我們已經取得了一些進展。

We have experienced 5x growth in battery swaps in our Battery as a Service venture and are experiencing about 1,000 deliveries a day utilizing Magna produced parts. We expect about $300 million in New Mobility Sales by 2027 with a significant runway for additional profitable growth beyond that. We expect our strategy to deliver continued growth above market, improved margins and returns and further shift in our portfolio towards mega-trend areas. This should drive increased shareholder value in the years to come.

我們的電池即服務企業的電池更換量增加了 5 倍，每天使用麥格納生產的零件交付約 1,000 次。我們預計到 2027 年，新型行動行程銷售額將達到約 3 億美元，並為除此之外的額外利潤成長提供了廣闊的空間。我們預計我們的策略將實現高於市場的持續成長，提高利潤率和回報，並進一步將我們的投資組合轉向大趨勢領域。這應該會在未來幾年推動股東價值的增加。

We also took a significant step forward in our commitment to sustainability, and environmental stewardship by submitting net zero emission targets for validation by the science-based targets initiative, with a goal to achieve net zero by 2050, together with meeting our near-term Scope 1, 2 and 3 targets by 2030. Among the steps involved in meeting this target is transitioning to 100% renewable electricity use in our European operations by 2025 and globally by 2030. We have already made progress towards previously established sustainability actions. This year, we are on track to achieve our commitment to reduce global energy intensity by 10% in all manufacturing facilities with a target of 20% reduction by 2027 and more than 30 Magna divisions have achieved carbon neutrality over the last 2 years.

我們還提交了淨零排放目標供基於科學的目標倡議進行驗證，從而在我們對永續發展和環境管理的承諾方面向前邁出了重要一步，目標是到2050 年實現淨零排放，並滿足我們的近期範圍到2030 年實現第1、2 和3 個目標。實現這一目標所涉及的步驟包括到2025 年在我們的歐洲業務中過渡到100% 使用可再生電力，到2030 年在全球範圍內部過渡到100% 再生電力。我們已經在先前製定的可持續發展行動方面取得了進展。今年，我們預計將實現將所有製造工廠的全球能源強度降低 10% 的承諾，目標是到 2027 年降低 20%，並且 30 多個麥格納部門在過去兩年中實現了碳中和。

With that, I'll pass the call over to Pat.

這樣，我會將電話轉給帕特。

Thanks, Swamy, and good morning, everyone. As Swamy indicated, once again, we delivered strong earnings this past quarter despite the onset of the UAW strike in September.

謝謝斯瓦米，大家早安。正如斯瓦米（Swamy）再次指出的那樣，儘管 UAW 罷工於 9 月開始，但我們在上個季度仍實現了強勁的盈利。

Comparing the third quarter of 2023 to '22, consolidated sales were $10.7 billion, up 15% compared to a 4% increase in global light vehicle production. Adjusted EBIT was $615 million and adjusted EBIT margin increased 90 basis points to 5.8%. Adjusted EPS came in at $1.46, up 33% year-over-year and free cash flow generated in the quarter was $23 million compared to a $210 million use in the third quarter of '22. Despite our higher capital spend this quarter to support record program awards in '22.

與 2023 年第三季相比，22 年第三季綜合銷售額為 107 億美元，成長 15%，而全球輕型汽車產量增加 4%。調整後息稅前利潤為 6.15 億美元，調整後息稅前利潤率成長 90 個基點，達到 5.8%。調整後每股收益為 1.46 美元，年增 33%，本季產生的自由現金流為 2,300 萬美元，而 2022 年第三季的自由現金流為 2.1 億美元。儘管本季我們的資本支出較高，以支持 22 年創紀錄的專案獎項。

During the quarter, we paid dividends of $128 million, and we increased our adjusted EBIT margin and earnings outlook despite the negative impact of the UAW strike. Let me take you through some of the details.

本季度，我們支付了 1.28 億美元的股息，儘管受到 UAW 罷工的負面影響，我們還是提高了調整後的息稅前利潤率和獲利前景。讓我帶您了解一些細節。

North American and European light vehicle production were up 7% and 14%, respectively, while Chinese production declined 2%, netting to a 4% increase in global production. Our consolidated sales were $10.7 billion, up 15% over the third quarter of '22. On an organic basis, our sales also increased 10% year-over-year for a 2% growth over market or 4% growth over market, excluding complete vehicles. The sales increase was primarily due to higher global vehicle production, the launch of new programs, adjustments to recover certain higher input costs, the acquisition of Veoneer Active Safety, net of the divestiture of our manual transmissions plant in Europe and the net strengthening of currencies against the U.S. dollar. These are partially offset by lower Complete Vehicle sales, mainly due to a program changeover and an estimated $55 million impact from the UAW strike. Adjusted EBIT was $615 million and adjusted EBIT margin was 5.8% compared to 4.9% in the third quarter of '22.

北美和歐洲輕型汽車產量分別成長 7% 和 14%，而中國產量下降 2%，全球產量淨增加 4%。我們的綜合銷售額為 107 億美元，比 2020 年第三季成長 15%。在有機基礎上，我們的銷售額也比去年同期成長了 10%，較市場成長 2%，較市場成長 4%（不包括整車）。銷售成長主要是由於全球汽車產量增加、新計劃的啟動、為收回某些較高投入成本而進行的調整、收購Veoneer Active Safety（扣除我們在歐洲的手動變速箱工廠的剝離以及貨幣的淨升值）兌美元。這些損失被整車​​銷售下降所部分抵消，這主要是由於計劃變更以及 UAW 罷工造成的預計 5500 萬美元的影響。調整後息稅前利潤為 6.15 億美元，調整後息稅前利潤率為 5.8%，而 2022 年第三季為 4.9%。

Our continued focus on operational excellence and performance on cost initiatives is driving strong earnings on higher sales. This was despite the negative impact of a program changeover in Complete Vehicles, the UAW strike, which we estimate cost us about 10 basis points and acquisitions net of divestitures. Combined, we generated 40 basis points of net improvements.

我們對卓越營運和成本計劃績效的持續關注正在透過更高的銷售額推動強勁的盈利。儘管整車項目調整、UAW罷工帶來了負面影響，我們估計這導致我們損失了約10個基點，並且扣除資產剝離後的收購成本也出現了下降。總而言之，我們實現了 40 個基點的淨改進。

Adjusted EBIT margin was also positively impacted by about 60 basis points of net operational items, which include productivity and efficiency improvements at certain facilities and lower net engineering costs, about 50 basis points related to lower net input costs and higher equity income which benefited margin by about 15 basis points. EBIT margin was negatively impacted by commercial items that had a net unfavorable impact in the quarter, which subtracted about 75 basis points year-over-year.

調整後的息稅前利潤率也受到約60 個基點的淨營運項目的正面影響，其中包括某些設施的生產力和效率的提高以及較低的淨工程成本，約50 個基點與較低的淨投入成本和較高的股本收入相關，這使利潤率受益約15個基點。息稅前利潤率受到本季產生淨不利影響的商業項目的負面影響，較去年同期減少約 75 個基點。

Interest expense increased primarily reflecting senior notes issued and borrowings in the first half of the year as well as higher interest rates. Our adjusted effective income tax rate came in at 21.9%, largely in line with our '23 expectations but lower than Q3 of last year. Adjusted net income attributable to Magna was $419 million, up 32% over the third quarter of '22, reflecting higher EBIT and the lower tax rate, partially offset by higher interest expense and minority interest. Adjusted diluted EPS was $1.46, up 33% compared to Q3 last year. This increase is the result of higher net income and fewer shares outstanding to reduce number of shares outstanding substantially reflect the impact of share purchases in 2022.

利息支出增加主要反映上半年發行的優先票據和借款以及利率上升。我們調整後的有效所得稅率為 21.9%，基本上符合我們 23 年的預期，但低於去年第三季。調整後歸屬於麥格納的淨利潤為4.19 億美元，比2022 年第三季增長32%，反映出較高的息稅前利潤和較低的稅率，但部分被較高的利息支出和少數股東權益所抵銷。調整後攤薄每股收益為 1.46 美元，較去年第三季成長 33%。這一增長是由於淨利潤增加和流通股數量減少導致流通股數量減少，這在很大程度上反映了 2022 年股票購買的影響。

Turning to a review of our cash flows and investment activities. In the third quarter of '23, we generated $821 million in cash from operations before changes in working capital, up $230 million or 39% from '22 and we invested $24 million in working capital. Investment activities in the quarter included $630 million for fixed assets and $176 million for investments, other assets and intangibles. As expected, CapEx was higher than the $364 million in Q3 last year to support our record program awards in 2022. Overall, we generated free cash flow of $23 million in the third quarter. We also paid $128 million in dividends.

轉向對我們的現金流和投資活動的審查。 2023 年第三季度，我們在營運資本變動前的營運中產生了 8.21 億美元的現金，比 22 年成長了 2.3 億美元，即 39%，我們投資了 2,400 萬美元的營運資本。本季的投資活動包括 6.3 億美元的固定資產和 1.76 億美元的投資、其他資產和無形資產。正如預期的那樣，資本支出高於去年第三季的 3.64 億美元，以支持我們在 2022 年創紀錄的計畫獎勵。總體而言，我們在第三季產生了 2,300 萬美元的自由現金流。我們還支付了 1.28 億美元的股息。

Our balance sheet continues to be strong with investment-grade ratings from the major credit agencies. At the end of Q3, we had over $4.5 billion in liquidity, including about $1 billion of cash. Currently, our adjusted debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio is 2.02. Excluding cash we're holding to help pay down our EUR 550 million senior notes coming due in the fourth quarter, our ratio would be 1.98. This ratio continues to decline and is tracking better than we're expected at the end of last quarter as a result of our improved operating results. We anticipate a reduction of our leverage ratio by the end of this year and a further decline through 2024.

我們的資產負債表持續保持強勁，並獲得主要信貸機構的投資等級評級。截至第三季末，我們擁有超過 45 億美元的流動資金，其中包括約 10 億美元的現金。目前，我們調整後債務與調整後 EBITDA 的比率為 2.02。不包括我們持有用於償還第四季度到期的 5.5 億歐元優先票據的現金，我們的比率將為 1.98。由於我們的經營業績有所改善，這一比率繼續下降，並且比我們上季度末的預期要好。我們預計槓桿率將在今年年底前降低，並在 2024 年進一步下降。

Next, I will cover our updated outlook, which incorporates higher than previously expected vehicle production in both Europe and China, including as a result of better production in Q3. Our assumption for production in North America is unchanged from our previous outlook as stronger-than-expected production was offset by the impact of the UAW strike. We have not assumed any lost [D3] production is made up in the fourth quarter.

接下來，我將介紹我們最新的展望，其中包括歐洲和中國的汽車產量高於先前的預期，其中包括第三季產量改善的結果。我們對北美產量的假設與先前的展望相同，因為強於預期的產量被 UAW 罷工的影響所抵消。我們並未假設任何損失的 [D3] 產量會在第四季度得到彌補。

We also assume exchange rates in our outlook will approximate current rates. We now expect a slightly weaker EUR, CAD and RMB for 2023 relative to our previous outlook.

我們也假設我們展望中的匯率將接近當前匯率。我們現在預計 2023 年歐元、加幣和人民幣相對於我們先前的預期將略有走軟。

We have narrowed our expected sales range with essentially the same midpoint as our last outlook. This mainly reflects higher European and Chinese vehicle production in the second half of '23, offset by the net stronger U.S. dollar relative to our last outlook and the estimated $310 million impact of the UAW strike. We communicated last quarter that beginning in Q3, Magna's adjusted EBIT would exclude the amortization of all acquired intangibles. Our August outlook excluded our estimate of the amortization intangibles associated with the acquisition of Veoneer Active Safety, about $30 million for half of '23.

我們縮小了預期銷售範圍，與我們上次展望的中點基本上相同。這主要反映了 23 年下半年歐洲和中國汽車產量的增加，但被美元相對於我們上次展望的淨走強以及 UAW 罷工估計的 3.1 億美元影響所抵消。我們上季表示，從第三季開始，麥格納調整後的息稅前利潤將不包括所有收購的無形資產的攤銷。我們 8 月的展望不包括我們對與收購 Veoneer Active Safety 相關的無形資產攤銷的估計，23 年上半年約為 3,000 萬美元。

Our final analysis of all other acquisitions resulted in about $50 million of additional annual amortization to be excluded from our adjusted EBIT calculation. This additional adjustment amounts to approximately 10 basis points in EBIT margin. We have updated our historical presentation of adjusted EBIT to reflect these revised calculations.

我們對所有其他收購的最終分析導致約 5000 萬美元的額外年度攤銷被排除在我們調整後的息稅前利潤計算之外。此次額外調整相當於息稅前利潤率約 10 個基點。我們更新了調整後息稅前利潤的歷史表述，以反映這些修訂後的計算。

As a result of our strong performance so far in '23, our expectations for continued operational execution and despite the negative impact of the UAW strike which we estimate to be between 10 and 15 basis points, we have narrowed and raised our adjusted EBIT margin. We now expect our EBIT margin for '23 to be in the range of 5.1% to 5.4%, which compares to 4.9% to 5.3% previously, adjusted by the 10 basis points to reflect amortization of all acquired intangibles. We're increasing our equity income range, mainly reflecting our better-than-forecasted performance in Q3.

由於我們 23 年迄今為止的強勁表現，我們對持續營運執行的期望，儘管 UAW 罷工的負面影響預計在 10 到 15 個基點之間，但我們已經縮小並提高了調整後的息稅前利潤率。我們現在預計 23 年的息稅前利潤率將在 5.1% 至 5.4% 之間，而之前為 4.9% 至 5.3%，調整 10 個基點以反映所有收購無形資產的攤銷。我們正在擴大股權收益範圍，主要反映了我們第三季的業績優於預期。

As a result of increasing our adjusted EBIT margin range, we are also raising our range for adjusted net [income] attributable to Magna. Our interest expense, tax rate, capital spending and free cash flow expectations are all unchanged from our last outlook.

由於提高了調整後息稅前利潤率範圍，我們也提高了麥格納調整後淨[收入]範圍。我們的利息支出、稅率、資本支出和自由現金流預期均與上次展望相同。

In summary, we are pleased with our strong operating performance in the third quarter. Once again, we outgrew our end markets by 2% on a consolidated basis as a percent, excluding Complete Vehicles. We raised our outlook for 2023, and we have continued confidence in our plans for margin expansion for the years to come.

總而言之，我們對第三季強勁的經營業績感到滿意。在綜合百分比（不包括整車）的基礎上，我們的成長再次超出了終端市場 2%。我們上調了 2023 年的展望，並對未來幾年的利潤擴張計劃繼續充滿信心。

Thank you for your attention. We will be happy to answer your questions.

感謝您的關注。我們很樂意回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) And with this, with our first question on the line from Chris McNally with Evercore.

（操作員說明）就此，我們的第一個問題來自 Evercore 的 Chris McNally。

Thanks so much, team. I appreciate all the detail. Maybe we could start with the -- obviously, the big topic of the week is around EV demand. And maybe just kind of just level set, just remind us your exposure, particularly in powertrain, you have $800 million and last year growing to -- I think it's (inaudible) this year, you have parts of -- of, I think, $4 billion out in the out years. What percentage is maybe pure EV versus 48-volt and hybrid, that would be helpful?

非常感謝，團隊。我很欣賞所有的細節。也許我們可以從——顯然，本週的大話題是圍繞電動車需求開始。也許只是設定一個水平，提醒我們您的投資，特別是在動力系統方面，您有 8 億美元，去年增長到 - 我認為今年（聽不清楚），您有一部分 - 我認為，未來幾年支出40 億美元。純電動車與 48 伏特和混合動力車的比例是多少，這會有幫助嗎？

And then just a pace on battery enclosures, which is obviously a new growth area. Just sort of anything around '23, '24, again, you've given longer-term targets? And just remind us maybe some of the programs or geographic exposure? Those are the big questions I think that you'll probably get several times in the queue from the rest of the analysts. So maybe we can start there.

然後是電池外殼，這顯然是一個新的成長領域。就 23、24 年左右的事情而言，您再次給出了長期目標嗎？只是提醒我們一些項目或地理曝光？我認為這些都是大問題，其他分析師可能會多次向您提出這些問題。所以也許我們可以從這裡開始。

Chris, we will try to address the different aspects of the questions. I think from an EV perspective, just generally to address macro, we've always said electrification is a (inaudible) irreversible trend and it's here to stay but the question was going to be the predictability of the take rates, right? How soon is it going to come? So it's basically the very long tale, and it's still very early days of electrification.

克里斯，我們將嘗試解決問題的不同方面。我認為從電動車的角度來看，一般來說，為了解決宏觀問題，我們總是說電氣化是一種（聽不清楚）不可逆轉的趨勢，而且它會持續下去，但問題是採用率的可預測性，對吧？多久會到來？所以這基本上是一個很長的故事，而且現在還處於電氣化的早期階段。

Also, if you look at the last 3 or 4 years, as we talked about electrification, we have generally said that global penetration will be somewhere in the mid-30s in percentage by 2030. Given those circumstances, our policy or our call it strategy has been to look at the volumes by program, by customer, look at external sources, IHS and our own internal volume predictions, and have been using that to come up with the numbers that you talked about.

此外，如果你看看過去3 或4 年的情況，當我們談論電氣化時，我們通常會說，到2030 年，全球滲透率將達到30 左右的百分比。考慮到這些情況，我們的政策或我們稱之為策略我們一直在按計劃、按客戶查看銷售量，查看外部來源、IHS 和我們自己的內部銷售預測，並一直用它來得出您談到的數字。

In the past, like not just related to EV, right, the volume uncertainty has been there on every program if you go back a few decades. And we have a mechanism to go through that in our own planning process and how we put the capital forward, how we plan scalability and modularity but beyond that, even have the discussions with the customers when there is a significant change in volumes.

在過去，不僅僅是與電動車相關，如果你回顧幾十年，每個項目都存在數量不確定性。我們有一個機制可以在我們自己的規劃過程中完成這一點，以及我們如何提供資金，我們如何規劃可擴展性和模組化，但除此之外，甚至在數量發生重大變化時與客戶進行討論。

But all that said, a few questions specifically that you asked about, in electrification of powertrain specifically, we talked about $3 billion in 2025 managed sales and about $4 billion during our Investor Day in 2027. And when we talk about those numbers, we've always taken into account the mechanism that I talked about of coming up with our own volumes, looking at multiple sources, looking at the take rates, which I would say are a little bit more conservative than what the customers and the markets have been talking, right? So that's one piece.

但話雖如此，您具體問了幾個問題，特別是在動力總成電氣化方面，我們談到了2025 年管理銷售額為30 億美元，在2027 年投資者日期間約為40 億美元。當我們談論這些數字時，我們'我們總是考慮到我談到的機制，即提出我們自己的數量，查看多個來源，查看接受率，我想說這比客戶和市場一直在談論的要保守一點，正確的？所以這是一件。

On the battery enclosure side, I think, Louis, we are in the $300 million, $400 million this year. And we were talking about $1.6 billion by 2025. And there, we talked about the product line where we are using existing assets, whether it's castings or exclusions or stampings, taxes and so on. And their dedicated assembly lines are considered pulling, which are paid by the customer, right? So that continues, and that is also a strategic product in the sense that when you look at the frames and the underbody and so on, we see a path going forward, and we talked about the analogy to the frames in the past, where we did in the late '90s, and we continue to do the third and fourth generation of the same product today. So this is a long-term play, and we feel pretty good about that.

在電池外殼方面，路易斯，我想我們今年的預算是 3 億美元、4 億美元。我們討論的是到 2025 年 16 億美元。在那裡，我們討論了我們使用現有資產的產品線，無論是鑄件、排除還是沖壓、稅收等等。而且他們的專用流水線也算拉動，是客戶付錢的吧？這樣的情況還在繼續，這也是一種戰略產品，因為當你看到車架和車身底部等時，我們看到了一條前進的道路，我們談到了與過去車架的類比，我們在其中我們在90 年代末就這樣做了，現在我們繼續生產同一產品的第三代和第四代。所以這是一個長期的遊戲，我們對此感覺很好。

I know I tried to address different aspects of the question. Did I miss anything there?

我知道我試圖解決這個問題的不同方面。我錯過了什麼嗎？

And the 48-volt...

還有48伏特的...

Just under 1/4 of our sales in '27.

略低於 27 年銷售額的 1/4。

That managed sales number.

該管理銷售數字。

And then what about plug-in as well? Because obviously, there's definitely more of a concern around Pure EV than plug-in has sort of continued? There is a decent amount of PHEV, right, in your high-voltage for powertrain as well.

那麼插件呢？因為顯然，人們對純電動車的擔憂肯定比插電式汽車的擔憂還要持續？在動力系統的高壓中也有相當數量的 PHEV，對吧。

Yes. I think most of our -- if you look at the general sales, overall powertrain, at significant pace, I think, is in the 48-volt substantially in the hybrids. There is a product line that we talked about in the PHEVs, but it's predominantly in 48-volts, which could be applied to the PHEV part of it and pure EV switches in the e-drives.

是的。我認為，如果你看一下整體銷售情況，我認為我們的大部分動力總成都以顯著的速度增長，主要是 48 伏特混合動力車。我們在 PHEV 中討論了一個產品線，但它主要是 48 伏，可以應用於其中的 PHEV 部分和電力驅動器中的純電動開關。

Okay. And then the only last bit of detail within battery enclosures, since it's new, and obviously, there is one large platform that you discussed a win on. How diversified if I look through 2025, is that sort of $1.6 billion? Are we talking a handful of OEMs? Or is it 5 or 5 to 8?

好的。然後是電池外殼內唯一的最後一點細節，因為它是新的，而且顯然，有一個您討論勝利的大型平台。如果我展望 2025 年，這個數字是 16 億美元嗎？我們談論的是少數原始設備製造商嗎？還是5或5比8？

So I think we are talking about 8 OEMs, Chris. We are talking over years that's included in the projections that we mentioned in the figures, that's 8 OEMs.

所以我認為我們正在談論 8 個 OEM，Chris。我們談論的這些年包括在我們在圖中提到的預測中，即 8 個 OEM。

And that's global.

這是全球性的。

And it's global.

而且它是全球性的。

That's great. And if I could just squeeze one last one on pricing recoveries. Obviously, we've talked so much about EVs over the last week that we kind of forgot about the older issues that we all used to talk about on Q2. Could you talk about the pace of recoveries, how it's going? Maybe just what's left in terms of could this be an extended tailwind into '24, because obviously you get the annualization of any price recoveries you've gotten in the second half?

那太棒了。如果我能就價格復甦擠出最後一點。顯然，上週我們談論了太多關於電動車的話題，以至於我們有點忘記了我們在第二季度討論過的舊問題。您能談談恢復的速度以及進展如何嗎？也許剩下的就是這可能會成為 24 年的長期順風車，因為顯然你會得到下半年價格復甦的年化？

We've been disclosing, I would say, the net impacts rather than specific amounts, right? And if you look at the certain costs in energy have declined, there is a improving trend in commodities in certain cases. And I would say we are on track to obtain the recoveries necessary to meet our outlook. Maybe a little bit of color. We talked about the $100 million at the beginning of the year as headwinds.

我想說，我們一直在揭露淨影響而不是具體金額，對嗎？如果你看看某些能源成本已經下降，那麼在某些情況下，大宗商品的成本也有改善的趨勢。我想說，我們有望實現實現我們的前景所需的復甦。也許有一點點顏色。我們將年初的 1 億美元視為逆風。

And in our last call, we talked about that being reduced to $50 million. And as we stand here today, we are at 0. That means the $100 million has been brought down to 0, but we continue our discussions and the focus still remains, right, on all the things, whether it is operational excellence, whether it is looking at every program and continuing discussions with customers, not specific only to '23, we have always talked about looking at it holistically from '22 and even going forward planning into '24.

在上次電話會議中，我們談到將其削減至 5000 萬美元。當我們今天站在這裡時，我們處於 0。這意味著 1 億美元已降至 0，但我們繼續討論，重點仍然是，對，所有事情，無論是卓越運營，還是正在研究每個計劃並與客戶繼續討論，不僅限於23 年，我們一直在談論從22 年開始全面審視它，甚至繼續規劃到24 年。

We'll proceed with our next question on the line. It is from Mark Delaney with Goldman Sachs.

我們將繼續討論下一個問題。這是高盛的馬克‧德萊尼 (Mark Delaney) 發來的。

First, as you guys are thinking about your prior target to reach profitability in mega-trend areas in 2025, as you're seeing some of the traditional OEMs revisit the radar ramps around EVs and including some in North America, where you've disclosed wins. Do you still think you can reach that profitability target in 2025? And if so, are you contemplating having to make some changes in order to still get there?

首先，當你們正在考慮 2025 年在大趨勢領域實現盈利的先前目標時，當你們看到一些傳統 OEM 重新審視圍繞電動車的雷達坡道時，包括北美的一些製造商，你們已經披露了這些獲勝。您仍認為 2025 年能夠實現獲利目標嗎？如果是這樣，您是否正在考慮必須做出一些改變才能實現這一目標？

Mark. Yes, when we talk about the mega-trend areas, it's not purely electrification. Part of it is ADAS also and other products that are included in there. We have to go through the customer changes in the road map, if any, as we are going through the plan right now. But I would say we have, in some cases, had call it, different business models, which are kind of tied, not completely tied to volumes. But I can give you an example this year on one program where there was a change in volume, we had a commercial settlement, right? And in some cases, we are looking at models where the capital inlay is put forward by the customer related to [NAV] program.

標記。是的，當我們談論大趨勢領域時，它並不是純粹的電氣化。其中一部分是 ADAS 以及其中包含的其他產品。我們必須在路線圖中經歷客戶的變化（如果有的話），因為我們現在正在經歷該計劃。但我想說的是，在某些情況下，我們稱之為不同的商業模式，這些商業模式是與銷售相關的，而不是完全相關的。但我可以給你一個例子，今年有一個節目的數量發生了變化，我們達成了商業和解，對嗎？在某些情況下，我們正在研究與[NAV]計劃相關的客戶提出的資本注入模型。

So there are multiple ways we are looking at it to mitigate or minimize risk, obviously, cannot take all the risk away. We've been doing this, but I think this is a little bit more deliberate and more proactive when we talk about the EV platforms. But I think we'll be able to give more color when we come back in February for the outlook.

因此，我們正在尋找多種方法來減輕或最小化風險，顯然，無法消除所有風險。我們一直在這樣做，但我認為當我們談論電動車平台時，這是更深思熟慮和更主動的。但我認為，當我們二月回來展望前景時，我們將能夠提供更多的色彩。

And I think, Mark, when we talk about the mega-trends, there is a big improvement in the ADAS business, specifically as we start launching these programs, and that's regardless whether it were distributed across ICE and EVs in that space. So you're expensing significant engineering today. And as those revenues launch, we should have a lot of contribution margin dropping to the bottom line. So it's really not just an EV explanation into '25.

我認為，馬克，當我們談論大趨勢時，ADAS 業務有了很大的改善，特別是當我們開始啟動這些項目時，無論它是否分佈在該領域的 ICE 和電動車中。因此，您今天正在花費大量的工程費用。隨著這些收入的推出，我們的邊際貢獻率應該會大幅下降到底線。所以這實際上不僅僅是對 25 年電動車的解釋。

Very helpful. And in terms of the updated EBIT margin guide, you're taking up your margin guidance on pretty similar revenue and despite the UAW strike headwind that you're now having to overcome. You gave us a number of metrics around various puts and takes, but maybe just level set us and summarize a bit what's driving the better EBIT margin despite some of these headwinds? And is there anything unusual that you would say that's more temporal helping the margins in the second half of this year? Or do you think this is (inaudible) of the profit potential and gives you guys some good momentum towards the at least 230 bps of margin expansion by 2025 that you'd previously talked about?

很有幫助。就更新的息稅前利潤指南而言，儘管您現在必須克服 UAW 罷工的逆風，但您還是在相當相似的收入下採用了利潤指南。您為我們提供了一些有關各種看跌期權和看跌期權的指標，但也許只是讓我們了解一下，並總結一下儘管存在一些不利因素，但是什麼推動了更好的息稅前利潤率？您認為有什麼不尋常的事情可以暫時幫助今年下半年的利潤率嗎？或者你認為這就是（聽不清楚）利潤潛力，並為你們提供了一些良好的動力，以實現你之前談到的到 2025 年利潤率至少擴大 230 個基點？

I can start and Swamy jump in. When you look at the -- I think, guide to guide, we're really just executing where we expect it to be. Volumes have come in a little bit stronger.

我可以開始了，斯瓦米也加入進來。當你看到——我想，指南到指南時，我們實際上只是按照我們期望的方式執行。成交量有所增加。

If you look on an annual basis, we've said from -- since beginning of February that we're going to improve our margins as we go through the year, and that was driven by launches, some changeovers, but also just the timing of recoveries of our commercial settlements. I think we're tracked on that plan. The one change, I would say, since February really has been the execution on the operational front that we're exceeding our targets for whether it's cost recoveries or cost containment and our acceleration of our improvement plans. I think that's the big drive. And that's what's given us confidence. We're reiterating what we said in September that we have confidence in our '25 numbers.

如果你以年度為基礎來看，我們從二月初就說過，我們將在這一年裡提高我們的利潤率，這是由產品發布、一些轉變所推動的，但也只是時機的推動。收回我們的商業和解金。我認為我們正在跟踪該計劃。我想說，自二月以來，唯一的變化實際上是在營運方面的執行，無論是成本回收還是成本控制以及我們的改進計劃的加速，我們都超出了我們的目標。我認為這是最大的動力。這就是給我們信心的原因。我們重申我們在 9 月所說的，我們對 25 年的數字充滿信心。

And we're taking our input cost down. We said there was going to be a headwind of 50 last time around saying it's basically neutral now. So that's another contributor to the outlook to outlook improvement.

我們正在降低投入成本。上次我們說過會有 50 的逆風，現在基本上是中性的。因此，這是前景改善的另一個因素。

Yes. In summary, I would say, Pat, we -- there is not any temporal topic that has added to the expansion, but it's just operational excellence and the great trend of the materials and energy.

是的。總而言之，我想說，帕特，我們——沒有任何時間主題添加到擴展中，但這只是卓越的運營以及材料和能源的大趨勢。

Correct.

正確的。

We'll proceed with our next question on the line from Gautam Narayan with RBC.

我們將繼續回答 Gautam Narayan 與 RBC 的下一個問題。

The first one, I'm sorry, I missed this in the prepared comments. Could you review the UAW impact on just their absolute revenue and EBIT impact that you -- or EBITDA or EBIT impact that you've (inaudible) far or you expect in '23 first?

第一個，抱歉，我在準備好的評論中錯過了這一點。您能否先回顧一下 UAW 對您的絕對收入和 EBIT 影響，或者您在 23 年（聽不清楚）遠或預期的 EBITDA 或 EBIT 影響？

Yes. Tom, it's Pat. So just a level set, our Q3 impact was $55 million in sales, about 10 basis points on margin. Q4, we're estimating an additional about $255 million for a full year basis, $310 million of sales with an impact of 10 to 15 basis points on our guide.

是的。湯姆，我是帕特。因此，僅設定一個水平，我們對第三季銷售額的影響為 5500 萬美元，利潤率提高約 10 個基點。第四季度，我們預計全年銷售額將增加約 2.55 億美元，銷售額為 3.1 億美元，對我們的指南產生 10 到 15 個基點的影響。

Okay. I mean, obviously, the next question is on the EV side. So I guess the question has to do with how orders work -- the order book works? We saw some commentary yesterday from a couple of suppliers, suggesting maybe some caution on the order book. Just curious in terms of how susceptible or how would -- how concerning could cancellations be should this downturn get more severe or "EV slowdown" gets severe? Just I mean, do you have a lot of visibility on the orders. It's a situation of like 50% growth going to 30% growth, so you have enough inertia to help you. Just trying to get a sense of the visibility on the order book around electrification.

好的。我的意思是，顯然，下一個問題是關於電動車方面的。所以我想這個問題與訂單如何運作有關——訂單簿如何運作？昨天我們看到一些供應商的評論，建議對訂單持謹慎態度。只是好奇如果這種低迷變得更加嚴重或「電動車放緩」變得嚴重，那麼取消的影響有多大？我的意思是，你對訂單有很多了解嗎？這是一種 50% 成長到 30% 成長的情況，所以你有足夠的慣性來幫助你。只是想了解訂單簿上有關電氣化的可見性。

Tom, as we look at it, it's -- we haven't really seen any cancellations. And as I mentioned to one of the previous question, if there is a volume change in terms of the planning. It is a discussion that we have with the customer. And I wouldn't say we have seen anything significant, maybe on I think that might at one point that might help. If you look at just non-electrification but all content on EV platforms, we are in single digits as a percent of sales, right, in 2023. Going out to 2025, maybe 1/5 of our business roughly is connected to EV platforms.

湯姆，據我們觀察，我們還沒有真正看到任何取消。正如我在上一個問題中提到的，規劃方面是否有數量變化。這是我們與客戶的討論。我不會說我們看到了任何重大的事情，也許我認為這可能在某個時刻可能有所幫助。如果你只看非電氣化，但看電動車平台上的所有內容，你會發現，到2023 年，我們佔銷售額的百分比只有個位數，對吧。到2025 年，我們的業務大約有1/ 5 與電動車平台有關。

But again, I want to reiterate. We always look at volume planning from our perspective based on customer, based on platform, based on segment of the vehicle, looking at anxious data and other sources. So there is a, call it, the Magna volume that we have to have a judgment on. That's one aspect of it. The other one, like I said, look, even on ICE, there are several programs which don't hit the volumes that we predicted. And we have mechanisms to have those discussions with their customers. This is besides having capital outlay in tranches, having flexible manufacturing so that we can flex as the volumes change obviously within reason.

但我想再次重申。我們始終從基於客戶、基於平台、基於車輛細分的角度來考慮銷售規劃，並專注於令人擔憂的數據和其他來源。因此，我們必須對麥格納卷進行判斷。這是它的一方面。另一個，就像我說的，即使在 ICE 上，也有幾個項目沒有達到我們預測的數量。我們有與客戶進行討論的機制。除了分批資本支出和靈活的製造之外，我們還可以在產量明顯合理變化時進行彈性調整。

And there are some cases where the volumes are up. So it's a complex, variable equation here, but we've had this with customers. And there is a little bit of uncertainty, and that's where I said, in some cases, the models on EV platforms, the customer has come forward with the capital. And some, we already had settlement, where the volumes change significantly. And in some cases, we are looking at the same product where the platform has both ICE and EV. So depending on which does better, there is a little bit of an edge.

在某些情況下，數量會增加。所以這是一個複雜的、可變的方程，但我們已經和客戶遇到這個問題。存在一點不確定性，這就是我所說的，在某些情況下，電動車平台上的模型，客戶已經提供了資金。有些我們已經達成和解，但數量變化很大。在某些情況下，我們正在尋找平台同時具有 ICE 和 EV 的相同產品。因此，取決於哪一個做得更好，會有一點優勢。

So there's a lot of these things that we look at it from our planning perspective to again mitigate risk, not completely, but it gives us enough comfort.

因此，我們從規劃的角度考慮了很多事情，以再次降低風險，雖然不是完全降低，但它給了我們足夠的安慰。

Okay. And another thing that we heard yesterday was that there seems to be this kind of divergence of opinion on this EV decline story geographically with a lot of Americans, let's say, thinking that we're in this Armageddon scenario. And then over in Europe, it's kind of an opposite view. Just curious in terms of your OEM exposure on to EV specifically investment. Does that -- is that something that's pretty geographically balanced? Or how would you characterize that your EV kind of exposure to geographically on OEMs?

好的。我們昨天聽到的另一件事是，對於電動車衰退的故事，在地理上似乎存在這種意見分歧，許多美國人認為我們正處於世界末日的場景中。而在歐洲，則有相反的觀點。只是好奇您的 OEM 對電動車的投資具體情況。這在地理上是相當平衡的嗎？或者您如何描述您的電動車在 OEM 上的地理分佈？

Yes. I think generally, if you look at it, our overall sales, we are about 60% or so in North America and about 35% in Europe and the rest in other but predominantly China. And we have said from a reasonable perspective, the electrification take rates are higher in China, followed by Europe, followed by North America. But Tom, this is very specific on platforms. We have to not just look overall to a weak segment. It's a little bit of a judgment to say when we have relationships with the customer where we are having reasonable conversations in terms of business models, which platform. A lot of that comes in rather than a generic view on region by region.

是的。我認為，總的來說，如果你看一下我們的整體銷售額，我們大約有 60% 左右在北美，大約 35% 在歐洲，其餘的在其他地區，但主要是中國。而且我們從合理的角度來講，中國的電氣化普及率更高，其次是歐洲，其次是北美。但是湯姆，這在平台上是非常具體的。我們不能只關注整體薄弱環節。當我們與客戶建立關係時，我們在商業模式、哪個平台方面進行合理的對話，這有點判斷力。其中許多內容並非針對各地區的一般觀點。

Got it. Yes. My last one is just on that other topic, the price/mix topic. Obviously, the OEMs benefited on the way up in the past 3 years. And if we do get a normalization in price mix, one of the fears is that potentially the OEMs could go to suppliers and ask for price downs. How has that happened historically in the past? Is it that you guys typically benefit on volume recovery regardless if price/mix is coming down for your OEM customers? Or do they have the ability to squeeze you guys as price/mix comes down?

知道了。是的。我的最後一篇只是關於另一個主題，即價格/組合主題。顯然，整車廠在過去三年的崛起中受益匪淺。如果我們確實實現價格組合正常化，人們擔心的一個問題是，原始設備製造商可能會向供應商尋求降價。過去歷史上是如何發生這種情況的？無論 OEM 客戶的價格/產品組合是否下降，你們通常都會從銷售恢復中受益嗎？或者當價格/組合下降時他們有能力擠壓你們嗎？

Yes. Those conversations have never been easy. And like you said, even when they were doing well in the last 3 years, I would say the conversations still were not easy. But I can say that we talked about various things and recoveries, looking at underperforming programs coming to an end. Input cost inflation, whether it was semiconductors or others. They were tough conversations, and I talked about getting the headwinds to be neutralized this year.

是的。這些對話從來都不是一件容易的事。就像你說的，即使他們在過去三年表現良好，我想說，對話仍然不容易。但我可以說，我們討論了各種事情和復甦，考慮結束表現不佳的項目。輸入成本通膨，無論是半導體或其他。他們的談話很艱難，我談到如何消除今年的不利因素。

All I can say is they will continue to be. They recognize that we have been living in this tough environment of inflation and chip shortages and supply constraints over the last 3 years. So we already have been living in that, right? So I think we are not going to change our thinking process to be speaking objectively with data. We have hands-on conversations, but I would say they were fair and cordial.

我只能說他們將繼續如此。他們認識到，過去三年來我們一直生活在通貨膨脹、晶片短缺和供應限制的嚴峻環境中。所以我們已經生活在其中了，對吧？所以我認為我們不會改變我們的思考過程來客觀地用數據說話。我們進行了實際的對話，但我想說它們是公平而親切的。

We'll get our next question on the line. It is from Dan Levy with Barclays.

我們將在線回答下一個問題。這是巴克萊銀行丹‧利維 (Dan Levy) 發來的。

I wanted to just follow up on the last -- on the last question. And specifically, the commercial recoveries in the quarter, just any color was that at all, was it retroactive? Is it piece price? Just any color on what the recoveries were in the quarter that you saw? Magnitude as well.

我想跟進最後一個問題。具體來說，本季的商業復甦，任何顏色都是如此，它是否具有追溯力？是單價嗎？您對您看到的本季的復甦情況有什麼看法嗎？量級也。

I think we talked about it again, net impact other than growth, and I talked about the $100 million, right? And there's a complexity of talking productivity versus inflation recoveries and a whole bunch of other things.

我想我們再次討論了成長以外的淨影響，我談到了 1 億美元，對吧？談論生產力與通膨復甦以及一大堆其他事情是很複雜的。

I would say about 2/3 of the recoveries in general are more related to flow-through purchase orders indexing and so on that would continue going forward and about roughly 1/3 or onetime, right? So the ones that are more mechanism-based, whether getting on an index or purchase orders and so on and so forth will flow-through into the following years. And the conversation of the onetime depends on, for example, energy and where they are versus what the recovery needs to be. So it's kind of a mix.

我想說，一般來說，大約 2/3 的復甦與流通採購訂單索引等更相關，這將繼續向前發展，大約 1/3 或一次性，對嗎？因此，那些更基於機制的項目，無論是進入指數還是採購訂單等等，都將流入接下來的幾年。例如，一次性的談話取決於能量、他們所處的位置與恢復所需的程度。所以這是一種混合。

And Dan, if I can just add. When you compare it to our expectations, we didn't have a win on recoveries or commercial in our guidance. Really, when we're talking about our increase on net inflation to pick up, it's related to last year on the commercial side. And we've been guiding all year that we had roughly a 45 basis point headwind related to commercial issues, and that's what's coming through.

丹，請讓我補充一下。當你將其與我們的預期進行比較時，我們的指導中沒有在復甦或商業方面取得勝利。事實上，當我們談論淨通膨率上升時，這與去年商業方面的情況有關。我們全年都在指導我們遇到了與商業問題相關的大約 45 個基點的逆風，而這就是正在發生的事情。

Okay. And then just the second, if you could maybe give us a sense of what's happening within the segment. And specifically, Seating, I know it doesn't get a lot of air time, but this is the best margin you posted in a while. So just any voice over on Seating? And then Complete Vehicles, we know that you said that there would be a changeover and that would try get negative margins, I don't think any of it expected. Maybe you could just give us a sense of when you get past this changeover and where those margins in Complete Vehicles should normalize to?

好的。然後是第二個問題，您能否讓我們了解一下該細分市場中正在發生的事情。具體來說，座位，我知道它沒有太多的播出時間，但這是您一段時間以來發布的最好的利潤。那麼座位上有配音嗎？然後是整車，我們知道您說過會進行轉換，並且會嘗試獲得負利潤，我認為這都不是預期的。也許您可以讓我們了解您何時度過了這一轉變，以及整車的利潤率應該正常化到什麼程度？

So I think, again, as we talk a little bit about Seating. I think we've been saying over the last few quarters and calls that we had really unfavorable mix in '22. And with the chip supply getting better, we are seeing a more normalized volume on some of the big platforms that we have. And therefore, we see the flow-through materializing. And a lot needs to be set up both the team continuing to focus on executing as we had talked about various initiatives. So that's -- I'm glad we've been talking about Seating that it was a mix issue, and it is really showing now, right?

所以我再次思考，當我們談論座位時。我想我們在過去幾個季度一直在說，我們在 22 年的組合確實很不利。隨著晶片供應的改善，我們看到我們擁有的一些大型平台的銷售更加正常化。因此，我們看到了流通的實現。正如我們討論的各種措施一樣，團隊需要繼續專注於執行，還有很多工作要做。所以，我很高興我們一直在討論座位問題，這是一個混合問題，現在確實已經顯現出來了，對吧？

I think you're right on the Complete Vehicles where we have said that the changeover and the launch cycle, it was impacting and it's still in line with the expectation that we have in that segment. And I think as we get past this year into the next year, we'll be able to give more color when we come back in February. But as we stand here today, I think it's tracking to what we expect.

我認為您對整車的看法是正確的，我們已經說過，轉換和發布週期正在產生影響，並且仍然符合我們對該細分市場的期望。我認為，隨著今年的過去，進入明年，當我們二月回來時，我們將能夠提供更多的色彩。但當我們今天站在這裡時，我認為它正在符合我們的期望。

We'll proceed with our next question on the line from Colin Langan with Wells Fargo.

我們將繼續回答來自富國銀行科林·蘭根 (Colin Langan) 的下一個問題。

If I look at the implied second half margin, it's around 5.6%, which is clearly above your full year guidance -- full year outlook. Should we be thinking of that as the right sort of jumping off point as we go into '24? Or you kind of mentioned that there's sort of a cadence of recoveries? So is there sort of a little help from the recoveries in the first half that's helping that second half margin making it, sort of maybe not a good base to be thinking about?

如果我看一下下半年的隱含利潤率，它約為 5.6%，這顯然高於您的全年指引——全年展望。當我們進入 24 世紀時，我們是否應該將其視為正確的起點？還是你提到有一定的復甦節奏？那麼，上半場的復甦是否對下半場的利潤有一點幫助，這可能不是一個值得考慮的好基礎？

I think when you look at the second half, you're correct, but this is what we have been expecting that as we get through the back half of the year, the recovery is going to be more back half loaded. As we move into -- and as Swamy said earlier, we're still comfortable with where we're going in our '25 projections. And we're in the middle of our BP process, but we do have to get through volumes and assumptions and whatnot. But coming in, do we expect to have a reduction in margins to '24? No. Do we think we can launch from the mid-5s upwards? I agree with that.

我認為，當你看到下半年時，你是正確的，但這就是我們一直期望的，當我們度過今年下半年時，復甦將更加緩慢。正如斯瓦米早些時候所說，當我們進入時，我們仍然對 25 年的預測感到滿意。我們正處於 BP 流程的中間，但我們確實必須完成數量和假設等等。但進來後，我們是否預期利潤率會減少到「24」？不。我們認為我們可以從 5 年代中期開始推出嗎？我同意這一點。

Okay. Got it. And then -- you mentioned before you -- so how should we think about the cadence as we go into next year? Because it sounds like you still have 1/3 of your recoveries might need to get renegotiated in some form. So does that mean there's going to be the sort of continued sort of tougher Q1 until you get those recoveries? Or is this becoming more of an automatic formula because if certain conditions are met, you can kind of just get them January 1.

好的。知道了。然後 - 你之前提到過 - 那我們應該如何考慮明年的節奏？因為聽起來你還有 1/3 的恢復量可能需要以某種形式重新協商。那麼，這是否意味著在你實現這些復甦之前，第一季將會持續更加艱難？或者這變得更像是一個自動公式，因為如果滿足某些條件，你可以在 1 月 1 日獲得它們。

I think it's way too early to comment on cadence in 2024. We need to get through our planning process and we'll have a bit of sense for that.

我認為現在評論 2024 年的節奏還為時過早。我們需要完成我們的規劃過程，我們對此會有一點感覺。

I guess I was trying to get at maybe like how it normally works? Does -- do you have to start those negotiations at the beginning of next year again? Or is it more of a -- trying to understand the triggers that would help you get those recoveries for that whatever is not locked into piece price.

我想我是想了解它通常是如何運作的？您是否必須在明年初再次開始這些談判？或者它更像是 - 嘗試了解觸發因素，以幫助您獲得那些未鎖定在單價中的費用。

So Colin, I think, like I said, the one that is in a mechanism basis that kind of flows through, but the other will be data based on where our set of assumptions are in terms of energy and commodities and so on, right? So that will be a very fact based.

所以科林，我認為，就像我說的，一個是在某種機制基礎上流動的，但另一個將是基於我們在能源和商品等方面的一組假設的數據，對嗎？所以這將是非常基於事實的。

So some conversations for '24 are already on the table to the extent that we know the information. And if you remember in the last 2 calls, I said it's -- when we talk '23, it's not just only '23. Some of it is '22 and some of it is forward-looking to think about what '24 would look like. But like Louis said, that will become more definitive once we finish our set of assumptions and have the plan in front of us.

因此，據我們所知，24 年的一些對話已經擺在桌面上。如果你還記得在最後兩次通話中，我說過——當我們談論「23」時，不僅僅是「23」。其中有些是 22 年的，有些是前瞻性的，思考 24 年會是什麼樣子。但正如路易斯所說，一旦我們完成了一系列假設並將計劃擺在我們面前，這將變得更加明確。

We'll proceed with our next question on the line from Joseph Spak with UBS Securities.

我們將繼續回答瑞銀證券的約瑟夫‧斯帕克 (Joseph Spak) 提出的下一個問題。

Maybe a little bit of housekeeping just to start because I'm a little bit confused on the amortization color you provided. Like we just did your prior guidance by about 10 basis points, which suggests about $40 million. But then when I look in the quarter, it looks like you added back $32 million in the quarter. So how do we square that because it doesn't seem like that, was the amortization like abnormally high in this quarter? Like why would it step down? Like and maybe you could just give us a better sense of sort of what you think -- what the full year amortization was last year or this year? And what the right run rate is going forward so we can properly adjust our models?

也許只是開始做一些家務工作，因為我對您提供的攤銷顏色有點困惑。就像我們剛剛將您先前的指導下調了大約 10 個基點一樣，這意味著大約 4000 萬美元。但當我查看該季度時，看起來您在該季度增加了 3200 萬美元。那我們要如何計算這個平方，因為看起來並非如此，本季的攤銷是否異常高？比如為什麼要下台？就像，也許你可以讓我們更了解你的想法——去年或今年的全年攤提是多少？未來正確的運行率是多少，以便我們可以適當地調整我們的模型？

Yes. So on the amortization, so we're trying to get an apples-and-apples comparison. So what we've done, when you look at our financial reporting that will come out today, it's very clearly listed on our analyst report on our financials. But just specifically to the numbers, when we guided in August, we said $30 million for half a year for Veoneer. So Veoneer is about $60 million of an impact annually. When we did our final scrub of all the other acquisitions that we had out there on an annual basis, there's approximately another $50 million that is going to flow through. So on an annual basis for the next couple of years, it's going to ebb and flow as stuff rolls off, but you're in that $110 million range -- and last year would have been about 50-50.

是的。因此，在攤銷方面，我們試圖進行同類比較。因此，當您查看今天將發布的財務報告時，我們所做的事情在我們的財務分析報告中非常清楚地列出了。但具體到數字，當我們在 8 月提供指導時，我們表示 Veoneer 半年要支付 3000 萬美元。因此，Veoneer 每年的影響力約為 6,000 萬美元。當我們每年對所有其他收購進行最後一次清理時，大約還會有 5,000 萬美元的資金流過。因此，在接下來的幾年裡，每年的收入都會隨著產品的推出而波動，但你的收入在 1.1 億美元的範圍內——而去年大約是 50-50 美元。

So it's $50 million and going forward, it's one time.

所以這是 5000 萬美元，展望未來，這只是一次。

Correct. And this year would be [80-80].

正確的。今年將是[80-80]。

Right. So then -- the -- I know you think you said year-over-year sort of prior year, maybe this is in the document and you sort of get a chance to look through, but like as we think about fourth quarter, is the -- what's sort of the right jumping off point for the new measure of adjusted EBIT? Is it like that seem like $11 million or $11 million or so that we need to add back to the fourth quarter?

正確的。那麼，我知道你認為你說的是前一年的同比情況，也許這在文件中，你有機會仔細閱讀，但就像我們對第四季度的看法一樣，是- 新的調整後息稅前利潤衡量標準的正確起點是什麼？是不是看起來像是 1100 萬美元或 1100 萬美元左右，我們需要將其加回第四季？

Yes. $11 million relative to what we said last quarter because we basically would have implied $15 million . So about $11 million is what we would have incremental to what we said last quarter.

是的。相對於我們上個季度所說的 1100 萬美元，因為我們基本上會暗示 1500 萬美元。因此，我們將比上季所說的增加約 1100 萬美元。

Okay. The second question is if we look at BES margins like implied in the fourth quarter, and you look at your full year guidance for segment, there's a step down. I know that, that segment has been performing better year-to-date in part, I think, with some better performance at some of those underperforming facilities. But how much of that step down is strike related because I know there's some big customers there. How much of it is maybe a little bit of a push out from the battery enclosures business? And I guess related to the battery enclosures but I know you've made sort of big CapEx investment. Is there anything to sort of maybe slow or retime some of that spend? Or is this something you just need to invest through?

好的。第二個問題是，如果我們看看第四季度暗示的 BES 利潤率，並且看看您對細分市場的全年指導，就會發現有所下降。我知道，該部門今年迄今表現較好，部分原因是一些表現不佳的設施表現較好。但其中有多少降級與罷工有關，因為我知道那裡有一些大客戶。其中有多少可能是電池外殼業務的一點點推動？我猜這與電池外殼有關，但我知道你們已經進行了巨額資本支出投資。有什麼辦法可以減緩或重新調整部分支出的時間嗎？或者這是您只需要投資的東西？

Yes. So I think there's 2 parts to the question. So I'll start with the first one. So from Q3 into Q4, you're correct. The impact of the strike at the UAW business higher in the fourth quarter relative to the third. So that's a drag on margins. The other issue, or not issue, is just a fact as we continue to launch business, we tend to launch business more in the fourth quarter relative to the third. So that's dragging margins. But that would have been as expected. This is really a change from guidance to guidance, and that's reflected in our increased guidance range for BES for the full year.

是的。所以我認為這個問題有兩個部分。所以我將從第一個開始。所以從第三季到第四季，你是對的。第四季罷工對 UAW 業務的影響高於第三季。所以這會拖累利潤率。另一個問題，或者不是問題，只是一個事實，因為我們繼續開展業務，相對於第三季度，我們傾向於在第四季度開展更多業務。所以這拖累了利潤率。但這本來就是預料之中的事。這確實是從指導到指導的轉變，這反映在我們增加的全年 BES 指導範圍中。

On the second part of the question related to battery trade. Battery trades really aren't dragging the margin in the sense that most of the spend in the battery trade space is related to capital and it gets put onto the balance sheet. As far as timing of spend, we're sequencing our capital as required -- just to be clear, we're not in a situation of building something and waiting for business to happen. We have facilities and we're scaling the build related to the customers' production plan. So we're scaling our capital as needed.

關於問題的第二部分涉及電池貿易。電池貿易實際上並沒有拖累利潤，因為電池貿易領域的大部分支出都與資本相關，並且被計入資產負債表。就支出時間而言，我們正在根據需要對我們的資本進行排序——需要明確的是，我們並不處於建造某些東西並等待業務發生的情況。我們擁有設施，並且正在根據客戶的生產計劃擴大生產規模。因此，我們正在根據需要擴大我們的資本。

As Swamy said earlier, those plans change. We're going to adapt as well so that we can delay our spend to the amount needed or as necessary. But we have to push forward in this space, but it's not really a margin impact related to this year.

正如斯瓦米早些時候所說，這些計劃發生了變化。我們也將進行調整，以便我們可以將支出推遲到需要的金額或必要時。但我們必須在這個領域推進，但這並不是與今年相關的真正的利潤影響。

Yes. I would just add, in terms of the UAW strike, it is a little more weighted not only Q4 versus Q3, but a little more weighted to BES, so the other segments. So I think that's dragging. If you look at our implied fourth quarter, it really didn't change that much. So it isn't really sales it has impacted really in any one segment, all that meaningfully. It's really just the -- waiting and the UAW strike, I think in that BES.

是的。我想補充一點，就 UAW 罷工而言，不僅第四季度的權重比第三季度的權重更大，而且 BES 的權重也更大一些，其他細分市場也是如此。所以我認為很拖延。如果你看看我們暗示的第四季度，它確實沒有太大變化。因此，它實際上並沒有真正影響任何一個細分市場的銷售，所有這些都是有意義的。我認為在 BES 中，這實際上只是等待和 UAW 罷工。

So is it like something that a need handle, a better underlying rate for that business at this point if we sort of back out some elevated launch activity in the fourth quarter and the strike?

那麼，如果我們取消第四季度的一些增加的發射活動和罷工，那麼此時該業務是否需要處理、更好的基本利率？

Well, I mean, we're applying kind of a range of 5% to 6.5% for the fourth quarter, right?

嗯，我的意思是，我們第四季的利率範圍為 5% 到 6.5%，對嗎？

Right. But I thought you mentioned there's some unusual stuff in the fourth quarter, right, at least the strike?

正確的。但我想你提到第四節有一些不尋常的事情，對吧，至少是罷工？

Yes. I mean we're not going to comment on where we're expecting to go beyond this, we'll give more color on I think in February.

是的。我的意思是，我們不會評論我們期望超越此範圍的內容，我認為我們將在二月提供更多資訊。

We'll get to our next question on the line. It is from James Picariello from BNP Paribas.

我們將討論下一個問題。來自法國巴黎銀行的詹姆斯皮卡里洛 (James Picariello)。

Just back on the Seating business. So I know you guys don't provide a backlog, but of course, you have one. One of your competitors -- and also back on the EV topic. One of your competitors, they stated that their new business backlog, about 80% of it, for next year was tied to EV programs. And they went ahead and cut that backlog contribution for next year by 20% just based on their perceived visibility or real visibility in what those EV build schedules look like. So -- just curious what your EV program mix in the new business draw for the coming years? What that could look like in the Seating business? And if any other major product categories that are, of course, power trade agnostic come to mind in terms of this EV exposure?

剛剛回到座椅業務。所以我知道你們沒有提供積壓訂單，但當然，你們有一份。你的競爭對手之一——也回到了電動車話題。你們的競爭對手之一表示，他們明年的新業務積壓（其中約 80%）與電動車專案相關。他們繼續將明年的積壓訂單削減了 20%，僅僅是基於他們對電動車製造計劃的感知可見性或實際可見性。那麼，只是好奇您的電動車計劃在未來幾年的新業務中有何組合？座椅產業會是什麼樣子？當然，在電動車的曝光方面，是否想到了其他與電力貿易無關的主要產品類別？

I think one of the things I mentioned overall, if you look at Magna this year, right, like all content or total sales related to EV platforms is less than 10%, right? And if you look at the specific question, I think you're talking about in Seating, I think Louis, picked content for us on EV platforms today in Seating is not material. So we don't see that impact obviously going forward into the outer years, which is too premature to comment, right, in terms of volumes. Because given the type of operations and so on, in outer years as we launch, I think we'll have to recalibrate with the customers if there is a significant change.

我認為我總體上提到的一件事，如果你看看今年的麥格納，對吧，就像與電動車平台相關的所有內容或總銷售額不到 10%，對嗎？如果你看一下具體問題，我認為你在座椅中談論的是，我認為路易斯今天在電動車平台上為我們挑選的內容在座椅中並不重要。因此，我們看不到這種影響明顯會持續到未來幾年，就數量而言，現在就評論還為時過早。因為考慮到營運類型等，在我們推出後的幾年裡，我認為如果出現重大變化，我們將不得不與客戶重新調整。

Again, going back to my previous comments, we'll work with them to see how we need to recalibrate and what needs to be really put in place if there is a substantial change.

再次回到我之前的評論，我們將與他們合作，看看我們需要如何重新調整，以及如果發生重大變化，需要真正落實哪些措施。

Okay. Understood. And then just one quick one on the LG powertrain JV. Yes, as we think about the targeted revenue ramp to $1.5 billion or $1.6 billion, whatever the number is over the coming years, just in terms of the customer, regional mix of that joint venture, what that looks like?

好的。明白了。然後是 LG 動力總成合資公司的快速介紹。是的，當我們考慮將目標收入提升至 15 億美元或 16 億美元時，無論未來幾年的數字是多少，僅就該合資企業的客戶、區域組合而言，情況會是什麼樣子？

Yes. I think we were roughly talking about $1 billion this year, Louis, right? And if you look at it, the customer mix is between North America and we are getting into Europe, right? And it is on programs that have been already there. And obviously, some will be going forward and launching. And this is what I would call [limblock] which is like the e-machine and the inverter which are like a platform. And we think not specific only to a program. There is a certain amount of specificity to a program, but there is also a generalized asset, which applies to machines in general. So I think there is a certain amount of flexible as we talk about the manufacturing and the engineering related to this and it's not tied to one program.

是的。我想我們今年大約討論的是 10 億美元，路易斯，對吧？如果你看一下，客戶組合是在北美之間，我們正在進入歐洲，對吧？而且它是在已經存在的程式上。顯然，有些將繼續推進並啟動。這就是我所說的 [limblock]，它就像馬達和逆變器，就像一個平台。而且我們的想法不僅限於某個程式。程序有一定的特殊性，但也有適用於一般機器的通用資產。因此，我認為當我們談論與此相關的製造和工程時，存在一定程度的靈活性，並且它不依賴某個程序。

So again, going back to this is where we talked about flexibility there. Again, we'll have to look at the numbers as we get from the customers if there is a substantial change. But as we sit here today and look at what's out there, we haven't seen a big drop or change, but we'll be able to update based on our plans coming back into February again.

再次回到這裡，我們討論了靈活性。同樣，如果有重大變化，我們將不得不查看從客戶那裡獲得的數據。但當我們今天坐在這裡看看外面的情況時，我們沒有看到大幅下降或變化，但我們將能夠根據再次回到二月份的計劃進行更新。

And we'll proceed with our next question on the line from Jonathan Goldman from Scotiabank.

我們將繼續回答豐業銀行喬納森‧戈德曼 (Jonathan Goldman) 提出的下一個問題。

So just a quick one on the macro. I believe your previous North American production outlook did not factor in the impact from strikes. So if we strip out the impact that you're projecting, your underlying production out would be up from previous expectations? Can you just discuss what you're seeing in the macro environment that supports the relatively better outlook?

簡單介紹一下宏觀情況。我相信您之前的北美生產前景沒有考慮罷工的影響。那麼，如果我們剔除您預測的影響，您的基本產量會高於先前的預期嗎？您能否簡單討論一下您所看到的支持相對較好前景的宏觀環境？

Yes, exactly. So when we guided in August, we guided x. We didn't assume any UAW or uniform issues at 15.2 million units. Our estimate is that we lost 220,000 units as a result of the UAW labor disruptions, which would imply 15.4 million. Of the 15.4 million of the 200 million increase that primarily came through in the third quarter.

對，就是這樣。所以當我們在八月指導時，我們指導了x。我們沒有假設 1520 萬輛汽車有任何 UAW 或製服問題。我們估計，由於 UAW 勞動力中斷，我們損失了 22 萬輛，這意味著 1,540 萬輛。其中 2 億成長中的 1,540 萬主要來自第三季。

On more new progress or product launches or market growth or any puts and takes there?

關於更多新進展或產品發布或市場成長或任何看跌期權？

Can you repeat the question? You just broke up a bit?

你能重複一下這個問題嗎？你們剛剛分手了一點嗎？

Yes. So the incrementally positive market outlook, could you just discuss any puts and takes that you're seeing?

是的。那麼，隨著市場前景逐漸樂觀，您能否討論一下您所看到的看跌期權和看跌期權？

I just (inaudible) draws from our customers relative to what we were anticipating.

我只是（聽不清楚）從我們的客戶那裡獲取了與我們預期相關的資訊。

Okay. Fair enough. And then another housekeeping one. You raised the margin guidance, but it looks like below the line items are flat and you maintained the free cash flow guidance for the year. Could you just help me bridge the delta there?

好的。很公平。然後是另一份家事服務。您提高了利潤率指導，但看起來以下項目持平，並且您維持了今年的自由現金流指導。你能幫我架起三角洲的橋樑嗎？

Yes. I think the simple answer is that it's just a movement within the range. When you work through the math, we were comfortable holding the range where it was at.

是的。我認為簡單的答案是，這只是區間內的變動。當你進行數學計算時，我們很樂意將其範圍保持在原來的範圍。

And there's nothing particularly going on with working cap or anything else?

工作上限或其他方面沒有特別的事情發生嗎？

No, exactly.

不，確切地說。

We'll get to our next question on the line from Michael Glen with Raymond James.

我們將回答邁克爾·格倫和雷蒙德·詹姆斯的下一個問題。

Can you just talk a little bit about Power & Vision margins? Like what I'm just trying to understand is the sequential uptick from Q2 into Q3, even excluding the amortization of intangible dynamic, like you're showing a pretty notable lift from Q2 and Q3. Was Veoneer accretive to Power & Vision margin in the quarter? Just trying to figure out exactly what's behind the lift?

能簡單談談 Power & Vision 利潤率嗎？就像我只是想了解的是從第二季度到第三季度的連續上升，甚至不包括無形動態的攤銷，就像你顯示出第二季度和第三季度相當顯著的提升一樣。 Veoneer 在本季是否增加了 Power & Vision 的利潤？只是想弄清楚電梯後面到底是什麼？

Michael, I think if you look at the first half, we had a warranty item and there was a net negative commercial item in the Q2, and there was higher engineering costs. So that's kind of some in the first half. If you look at the second half, and obviously, we also had net input costs, which were a headwind in the first half. So if you look at the higher sales in the second half and you take out all the onetimers, the warranty item, the higher engineering cost out that added to the bottom line, and the equity income was higher.

邁克爾，我想如果你看看上半年，我們有一個保固項目，第二季有一個淨負商業項目，而且工程成本更高。這就是上半場的一些情況。如果你看看下半年，很明顯，我們還有淨投入成本，這在上半年是一個阻力。因此，如果你看看下半年更高的銷售額，並剔除所有一次性產品、保固項目、增加底線的更高工程成本，以及股權收入更高。

Okay. And Veoneer, any comments on the contribution of Veoneer in the quarter to EBIT -- Power & Vision EBIT?

好的。 Veoneer 對於本季度 Veoneer 對 EBIT（Power & Vision 息稅前利潤）的貢獻有何評論？

I would say the comments that we gave in the last call that we are in line with the expectations that we had during closing with Veoneer, and we continue to have good traction to realize the synergies that we talked about.

我想說的是，我們在上次電話會議中給出的評論符合我們在與 Veoneer 達成交易時的預期，並且我們繼續有良好的牽引力來實現我們談到的協同效應。

Okay. And then what -- just in terms of North America, I know that this quarter, there is a strike and everything like that. But would you say performance this quarter was consistent? Like I'm trying to assess at the platform level and you identify your larger platforms each year in the AIF. Would you say there was a pickup in the quarter across some of the smaller programs that you have in North America? Or was it generally consistent with prior periods? As in are the larger and more profitable programs at the level you expected in the period?

好的。然後——就北美而言，我知道這個季度會發生罷工之類的事情。但您認為本季的表現是否穩定？就像我試圖在平台層級進行評估一樣，您每年都會在 AIF 中確定更大的平台。您是否認為本季您在北美的一些小型專案有所回升？還是與之前的時期大致一致？規模更大、利潤更高的項目是否達到您在此期間預期的水平？

To be completely honest, I don't have that in front of me, so it's really hard, but we don't look at it by region. So I'd have to look at it and see how we compares to what we see historically. I don't think there was anything notable that I can see in the quarter, but I'll look at it more closely.

說實話，我面前沒有這樣的東西，所以這真的很難，但我們不按地區來看待。所以我必須看看它，看看我們與歷史上看到的情況相比如何。我認為本季沒有什麼值得注意的事情，但我會更仔細地研究它。

And Mr. Kotagiri, there are no further questions at this time. I'll now turn the call back to you for any closing remarks.

Kotagiri 先生，目前沒有其他問題。現在我將把電話轉回給您，請您發表結束語。

Thanks, everyone, for listening in today. Happy with our continued progress in 2023. We have a relentless focus on execution of our strategy and meeting our mid- and long-term targets. And we have ongoing confidence in our ability to meet our plans. Thank you, and have a great day.

謝謝大家今天的收聽。我們對 2023 年的持續進展感到高興。我們將不懈地專注於執行我們的策略並實現我們的中長期目標。我們對實現計劃的能力始終充滿信心。謝謝您，祝您有美好的一天。

And that does conclude the conference call for today. We thank you for your participation as you disconnect your lines. Have a good day, everyone.

今天的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝您在斷開線路時的參與。祝大家有美好的一天。