林德集團 (LIN) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Linde second quarter 2025 earnings call and webcast. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，大家好，感謝你們的支持。歡迎參加林德 2025 年第二季財報電話會議和網路廣播。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。（操作員指示）

And I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Juan Pelaez, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

現在我想將會議交給投資者關係主管 Juan Pelaez 先生。先生，請繼續。

I appreciate it, [Abby]. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for attending our 2025 second quarter earnings call and webcast. I am Juan Pelaez, Head of Investor Relations, and I'm joined this morning by Sanjiv Lamba, Chief Executive Officer; Matt White, Chief Financial Officer. Today's presentation materials are available on our website at linde.com in the Investors section. Please read the forward-looking statement disclosure on page 2 of the slides and note that it applies to all statements made during this teleconference.

我很感激，[艾比]。大家早安，感謝您參加我們的 2025 年第二季財報電話會議和網路廣播。我是投資者關係主管 Juan Pelaez，今天上午與我一起參加會議的還有執行長 Sanjiv Lamba 和財務長 Matt White。今天的簡報資料可在我們的網站 linde.com 的「投資者」部分找到。請閱讀投影片第 2 頁的前瞻性聲明揭露，並注意它適用於本次電話會議期間所發表的所有聲明。

The reconciliation of the adjusted numbers are in the appendix of this presentation. Sanjiv will provide some opening remarks, and then Matt will give an update on Linde's second quarter financial performance and outlook, after which, we will wrap up with Q&A.

調整後的數字的對帳在本簡報的附錄。Sanjiv 將致開場白，然後 Matt 將介紹林德第二季度的財務業績和前景，之後我們將進行問答。

So now let me turn the call over to Sanjiv.

現在讓我把電話轉給 Sanjiv。

Thanks, Juan, and good morning, everyone. I'd like to thank our Linde employees for once again delivering solid results. EPS of $4.09 and operating margin of 30.1%, both represent all-time quarterly highs, against the backdrop of a challenging macro environment. Operating cash flows grew 15%. And ROC of 25.1% continues to comfortably lead the industry. And these results are underpinned by a healthy balance sheet that ensures access to low-cost capital.

謝謝，胡安，大家早安。我要感謝林德員工再次取得豐碩的成果。在充滿挑戰的宏觀環境下，每股收益 4.09 美元，營業利潤率 30.1%，均創下季度歷史新高。經營現金流成長15%。25.1% 的 ROC 繼續穩居業界領先地位。這些結果的基礎是健康的資產負債表，以確保獲得低成本資本。

Overall, Q2 was a successful quarter, which Matt will provide some more further details. But before that, I'd like to review one of my top priorities, which is to ensure future growth for Linde. Slide 3 highlights the sale of gas project backlog, which is one key element of that future growth. One cannot discuss project backlog without first aligning on definition of what is included.

總體而言，第二季度是一個成功的季度，Matt 將提供更多細節。但在此之前，我想回顧一下我的首要任務之一，那就是確保林德的未來發展。幻燈片 3 重點介紹了天然氣項目積壓的銷售，這是未來成長的關鍵要素。如果不先確定所包含內容的定義，就無法討論項目積壓。

And unlike others in the industry, Linde's definition has been clear and consistent with the most disciplined criteria. Inclusion in Linde's project backlog requires incremental growth, secured by contractual fixed fees with high-quality customers. Contract renewals, plans without customer commitments or LOIs are not included in our backlog. It's important to make this distinction because backlogs are simply not comparable within the industry. And while many like to tout the overall size of the backlog, it's the turnover of the backlog, which is one of the most important metrics, which actually can be seen in the center graphic represented by wins and startups.

與業內其他公司不同的是，林德的定義非常明確，並且符合最嚴格的標準。要加入林德的專案積壓，需要逐步成長，並透過與高品質客戶簽訂合約固定費用來保證。合約續約、沒有客戶承諾或意向書的計畫不包括在我們的積壓訂單中。做出這項區分非常重要，因為產業內的積壓訂單根本無法比較。雖然許多人喜歡吹捧積壓訂單的整體規模，但積壓訂單的周轉率才是最重要的指標之一，實際上可以在以勝利和新創公司為代表的中心圖形中看到。

In a little over four years, the sale of gas backlog has approximately doubled, from $3.6 billion to $7.1 billion. The same is true for the number of projects, moving from 33 projects to 70 projects. During this time, we added $9.2 billion of new projects, and more importantly started up $5.7 billion of these wins. This represents more than 150% backlog turnover in 4.5 years. So while I'm pleased to see a sale of gas current backlog at record levels, I'm equally encouraged by the accelerated turnover from timely execution and strong contracts. Of this $7.1 billion backlog, almost three quarters are in the Americas, mainly the US, our future plants serving the electronics end market and clean energy.

在短短四年多的時間裡，天然氣積壓銷售額大約翻了一番，從 36 億美元增加到 71 億美元。項目數量也從33個增加到70個。在此期間，我們增加了92億美元的新項目，更重要的是啟動了57億美元的新項目。這意味著4.5年內積壓訂單週轉率超過150%。因此，雖然我很高興看到天然氣銷售目前積壓量達到創紀錄的水平，但我同樣對及時執行和強有力的合約帶來的加速營業額感到鼓舞。在這71億美元的積壓訂單中，近四分之三位於美洲，主要是美國，我們未來的工廠服務電子終端市場和清潔能源。

To the right, you will see some of the high-quality customers that make up the majority of this backlog. One recent ad is the Blue Point project, which is a JV between CF Industries, Jera and Mitsui that will produce low carbon ammonia in Louisiana. We're proud to have been selected as their industrial gas partner due to the capability and track record of our US Gulf Coast team.

在右側，您將看到構成此積壓訂單大部分的一些高品質客戶。最近的一個廣告是 Blue Point 項目，這是 CF Industries、Jera 和 Mitsui 的合資項目，將在路易斯安那州生產低碳氨。由於我們美國墨西哥灣沿岸團隊的能力和業績記錄，我們很榮幸被選為他們的工業氣體合作夥伴。

The addition of this facility will help further build out supply density in a fast-growing region in the US. Furthermore, this win represents a third large clean energy contract signed, bringing the total to approximately $5 billion, which validates that the right low-carbon projects will continue to reach FID and execute contracts. Also not included in the slide is the sale of plant backlog, which today stands at $3.2 billion, and typically converts one-to-one sales over a three-year cycle.

該設施的增設將有助於進一步提高美國快速成長地區的供應密度。此外，此次中標代表著簽署了第三份大型清潔能源合同，總額達到約 50 億美元，證明合適的低碳項目將繼續達成最終投資決定並執行合約。幻燈片中也沒有包括工廠積壓訂單的銷售，目前該訂單價值為 32 億美元，並且通常在三年周期內轉化為一對一的銷售。

Now it's important to note that while we've made nice strides with the backlog, it does not represent all investments for future growth. We actually spent over $1 billion in CapEx annually for what we call base volume growth. Decisions for making these investments follow the same process as the backlog and require a consistent risk versus return criteria. It's just missing one or two key requirements to be classified as backlog. Most based growth CapEx supports packaged and merchant supply modes and is critical to further developing network density.

現在值得注意的是，雖然我們在處理積壓工作方面取得了很大進展，但這並不代表對未來成長的所有投資。實際上，我們每年花費超過 10 億美元的資本支出來實現所謂的基礎銷售成長。做出這些投資的決策遵循與積壓相同的流程，並需要一致的風險與回報標準。它只是缺少一兩個關鍵要求，所以被歸類為積壓。大多數基礎成長資本支出支持打包和商家供應模式，對於進一步發展網路密度至關重要。

Now small on-sites, an important supply bridge from merchant to on-site can also be included as base CapEx, when individual plant CapEx is less than $5 million. One recent base growth addition includes a Southeastern US merchant investment in support of space launches, a sector that continues to offer attractive growth opportunities. While these wins are contractual commitment by customers, the lack of guaranteed fixed fees precludes eligibility in the backlog.

現在，當單一工廠的資本支出低於 500 萬美元時，小型現場（從商家到現場的重要供應橋樑）也可以作為基本資本支出。最近的一項基礎增長包括美國東南部商人對支持航太發射的投資，該行業繼續提供具有吸引力的成長機會。雖然這些勝利是客戶的合約承諾，但缺乏保證的固定費用排除了積壓資格。

Finally, I'd be remiss not to mention the role of small tuck-in acquisitions can play for sustained high-quality growth. While I don't expect this number to be an overly large driver, it can consistently deliver an annual percent of two bottom line improvement, from both acquired profits and self-help synergies.

最後，如果我沒有提到小型收購對於持續高品質成長所發揮的作用，那我就太失職了。雖然我不認為這個數字會成為一個過大的驅動力，但它可以持續帶來每年百分之兩的底線改善，包括獲得的利潤和自助協同效應。

For the second quarter, you can see the 1% top line increase from US and APAC bolt-on acquisitions, mostly in packaged gases. Overall, despite the unfavorable economic backdrop, we are forging an independent path to growth. This comes not only from a high-quality disciplined project backlog, but also incremental base CapEx investments and roll-up acquisitions.

對於第二季度，您可以看到美國和亞太地區的額外收購帶來了 1% 的收入成長，其中大部分是包裝氣體。整體而言，儘管經濟背景不利，我們仍在開闢一條獨立的成長道路。這不僅來自於高品質、嚴謹的專案積壓，也來自於增量基礎資本支出投資和累積收購。

I'm highly confident in the Linde team's ability to not only win more than our fair share of high-quality opportunities, but also to execute them as promised, to deliver value for both customers and shareholders. Simply stated, I continue to be bullish on industrial gases as a critical foundation in making our world more productive, and I'm certain Linde will remain the undisputed leader in this effort.

我對林德團隊的能力充滿信心，他們不僅有能力贏得超出我們應得份額的高品質機會，而且能夠按照承諾執行，為客戶和股東創造價值。簡而言之，我繼續看好工業氣體作為提高世界生產力的關鍵基礎，我確信林德將繼續成為這項努力中無可爭議的領導者。

I'll now turn the call over to Matt to walk through our financial results.

現在我將把電話轉給馬特來介紹我們的財務表現。

Thanks, Sanjiv. Slide 4 provides a summary of second quarter results. Sales of $8.5 billion increased 3% over prior year and 5% sequentially. Year-over-year FX headwinds abated as we saw a 3% sequential improvement from broad-based weakening of the US dollar.

謝謝，Sanjiv。投影片 4 提供了第二季業績的摘要。銷售額達 85 億美元，較上年同期成長 3%，較上一季成長 5%。由於美元普遍走弱，我們看到環比增長 3%，因此同比外匯逆風減弱。

Cost pass-through trends were driven by energy fluctuations but have no impact on profit. And as Sanjiv mentioned, acquisitions lifted sales 1% over prior year from synergistic deals in the US and APAC. Excluding these items, underlying sales grew 1% over prior year and 3% sequentially. Broad-based price increases continue to track with globally weighted inflation, except for helium in China.

成本轉嫁趨勢受能源波動驅動，但對利潤沒有影響。正如 Sanjiv 所提到的，透過收購，美國和亞太地區的協同交易使銷售額比上年增長了 1%。除這些項目外，基本銷售額比上年增長 1%，比上一季增長 3%。除中國的氦氣外，廣泛的價格上漲繼續與全球加權通膨保持一致。

Volumes are down 1% from last year as weaker base volumes, primarily in EMEA, more than offset contribution from the project backlog. As mentioned in prior calls, much of this decline stems from existing contractual customers using less gas in their operations. So any recovery would be immediately beneficial. And while volumes did increase 2% sequentially from seasonal effects, the core trend remained somewhat stagnant.

由於基數較低（主要在 EMEA 地區）的銷售量超過了專案積壓的貢獻，銷售量較去年同期下降了 1%。正如先前的電話會議中所提到的，這種下降很大程度上是由於現有合約客戶在營運中使用了較少的天然氣。因此，任何復甦都會帶來直接效益。儘管受季節性影響，銷量較上月成長了 2%，但核心趨勢仍有些停滯。

Operating profit of $2.6 billion increased 6% over prior year. The operating margin of 30.1% increased 80 basis points, or 100 basis points when excluding the effect of cost pass-through. EPS of $4.09 also increased 6% from prior year as a lower share count was mostly offset by a higher effective tax rate. Despite the base volume headwinds, business quality continues to improve from self-help actions. Further support of this quality can be seen in operating cash flow growth of 15%, as well as a healthy ROC exceeding 25%. More details on capital management can be found on slide 5.

營業利潤為 26 億美元，比上年增長 6%。營業利益率為 30.1%，增加了 80 個基點；若剔除成本轉嫁的影響，則增加了 100 個基點。每股收益 4.09 美元也比上年增長了 6%，因為較低的股數大部分被較高的有效稅率所抵消。儘管面臨基礎量方面的阻力，但透過自助行動，業務品質仍在持續改善。15% 的營運現金流成長以及超過 25% 的健康 ROC 進一步支持了這項品質。有關資本管理的更多詳細資訊請參閱幻燈片 5。

The operating cash flow trend shows sequential stability in the first half of this year, consistent with our commentary from last quarter. Recall that the first half of the year is seasonally weaker due to timing of certain cash impacts like taxes, interest and incentive compensation. I expect a step-up for the back half, like what we experienced last year. Base CapEx is stable which has enabled healthy levels of cash flow available for shareholder returns, M&A and project investments.

今年上半年經營現金流量趨勢呈現季比穩定，與我們上季的評論一致。回想一下，由於稅收、利息和獎勵性薪酬等某些現金影響的時間安排，上半年的季節性表現較弱。我預計後半段會有所進步，就像我們去年經歷的那樣。基礎資本支出穩定，為股東回報、併購和專案投資提供了健康的現金流水準。

The pie chart represents a steady and disciplined capital allocation policy, which deployed almost $6.5 billion year-to-date. Of this $2.8 billion comprises investments that met our risk reward criteria, an increase of 20% over last year. Equally important is our ability to consistently access low-cost capital. This quarter, we issued bonds of CHF0.5 billion with an average yield less than 1%. Ability to raise cost-effective capital will continue to be a key component of shareholder value creation, especially as we see greater discrepancy across interest rate policies. I'll wrap up with guidance on slide 6.

餅圖代表了穩定且嚴謹的資本配置政策，今年迄今已部署近 65 億美元。其中 28 億美元是符合我們風險回報標準的投資，比去年增加了 20%。同樣重要的是我們持續獲取低成本資本的能力。本季，我們發行了5億瑞士法郎的債券，平均殖利率不到1%。籌集具有成本效益的資本的能力將繼續成為股東價值創造的關鍵組成部分，尤其是在我們看到利率政策差異越來越大的情況下。我將在第 6 張投影片上總結指導。

For the third quarter, we're providing a guidance range of $4.10 to $4.20, or 4% to 7% above last year. This includes an assumed 1% currency tailwind, which would be the first quarterly FX benefit since late 2023. While the FX assumption improved from our prior guidance level, we mostly offset that with a more negative assumption of the economy as the top end now assumes economic contraction.

對於第三季度，我們給出的指導範圍是 4.10 美元至 4.20 美元，比去年同期高出 4% 至 7%。這包括假設的 1% 貨幣順風，這將是自 2023 年底以來的首次季度外匯收益。雖然外匯假設較我們先前的指導水準有所改善，但我們主要以對經濟更為負面的假設來抵消這一影響，因為目前最高端假設經濟萎縮。

During the second quarter, we were able to capture the full FX upside on top of meeting the original expectation. However, the currency volatility, and general economic uncertainty, don't give us enough confidence to raise the outlook at this time.

在第二季度，我們在滿足原有預期的基礎上，也能夠獲得全部外匯上漲空間。然而，貨幣波動和總體經濟不確定性使得我們目前沒有足夠的信心上調前景。

Rest assured, we'll strive to outperform this projection, but time will tell if we're being too conservative or not. For the full year, we simply approached it the same way as the third quarter, updated the improved FX but offset with an assumption of a contracting economy at the top end of the range. This resulted in a new range of $16.30 to $16.50, or 5% to 6% growth, including a 1% currency tailwind. The last time we saw a full year currency tailwind was 2021. So I believe it's appropriate to remain guarded.

請放心，我們會努力超越這項預測，但時間會證明我們是否過於保守。對於全年，我們只是採用與第三季度相同的方法，更新了改善的外匯，但以範圍頂端經濟萎縮的假設進行抵消。這導致新的區間為 16.30 美元至 16.50 美元，即 5% 至 6% 的增長，其中包括 1% 的貨幣順風。我們上一次看到全年貨幣順風是在 2021 年。因此我認為保持警惕是適當的。

In summary, the EPS algorithm remains intact. Linde employees continue to manage what's within their control to deliver value, but we know there's always room to improve. The current negative volume headwinds are a function of contractual customers taking less gas due to the economic uncertainty. Between internal initiatives and industrial recovery, I expect this level to improve like it always has. And when that happens, coupled with the self-help growth initiatives that Sanjiv laid out.

綜上所述，EPS演算法依然保持完整。林德員工繼續管理他們所能做的事情以創造價值，但我們知道總有改進的空間。目前的天然氣供應量下降是由於經濟不確定性導致合約客戶減少天然氣使用量。在內部措施和工業復甦的推動下，我預計這一水平將一如既往地提高。當這種情況發生時，再加上 Sanjiv 所製定的自助增長計劃。

I'm confident Linde will return to the double-digit EPS growth that our owners have become accustomed to. I'll now turn the call over to Q&A.

我相信林德將恢復到我們的股東已經習慣的兩位數每股收益成長。我現在將電話轉入問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Duffy Fisher, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的達菲費雪。

Congrats on a really good quarter. We're hearing a lot of different things from the companies in this space over the last week just where businesses globally, whether it's the (inaudible) and stuff like that. So could you take some time and just go geographically end-by-end markets, is kind of what you're seeing and what you expect to see in the back half of the year?

恭喜本季取得如此好的業績。過去一周，我們從該領域的公司那裡聽到了很多不同的事情，關於全球業務，無論是（聽不清楚）還是諸如此類的事情。那麼，您能否花點時間從地理上逐一了解各個終端市場，這是您所看到的以及您預計在今年下半年會看到的情況嗎？

Thanks, Duffy. That's a good place to start. So why don't I do just walk you around the world and share some insights. I'll start off here in the Americas. And I'm expecting volumes to be flat, maybe very slightly up, led essentially by growth in the resilient end market, but being partly offset by softer industrial sector.

謝謝，達菲。這是一個很好的起點。那我為什麼不帶你環遊世界並分享一些見解呢？我將從美洲開始。我預計銷量將持平，甚至可能略有上升，這主要得益於終端市場的強勁增長，但部分抵消了工業部門的疲軟。

I have to say I remain positive on the US market. In Q2, we saw volume move in line with slightly positive IP numbers that were published earlier this week. Year-on-year volumes were up for metals and mining, chemicals, energy, food and beverage, electronics, while manufacturing showed a slight decline. Now sitting in manufacturing is our commercial space market, which continues to be a very attractive growth opportunity.

我不得不說我對美國市場仍然持樂觀態度。在第二季度，我們看到交易量的變化與本週早些時候發布的略微積極的 IP 數據一致。金屬和採礦、化學品、能源、食品和飲料、電子產品的出口量較去年同期成長，而製造業則略有下降。目前，我們的商業太空市場正處於製造業階段，這仍然是一個非常有吸引力的成長機會。

And Linde, of course, is well positioned in that space. The opportunity to supply fuels for rocket launches, propulsion systems for placing satellites into orbit. It's fueling double-digit growth Linde in that particular market, or end market. And not only do we supply the leading and probably the most well-known company for space launches, but also working with many others who are looking to scale up, and we expect to see that growth continue. So our recent announcement regarding the new investment in Texas and Florida is likely the first of many that you'll see.

當然，林德在該領域佔據有利地位。為火箭發射提供燃料、為衛星送入軌道提供推進系統的機會。這推動了林德在該特定市場或終端市場實現兩位數成長。我們不僅為領先的、可能是最知名的太空發射公司提供服務，而且還與許多其他尋求擴大規模的公司合作，我們預計這種成長將繼續下去。因此，我們最近宣布的有關在德克薩斯州和佛羅裡達州的新投資可能是您將看到的眾多投資中的第一個。

And again, we're trying to see how we take this business globally. And in doing that or finding opportunities in Europe that are starting to look attractive as well. So that's really Americas for you with a lot of confidence in the US market, if you will. From that excitement of space, I have to bring you down to some ground realities when I talk about Europe.

我們正在嘗試如何將這項業務推向全球。透過這樣做或在歐洲尋找也開始顯得有吸引力的機會。所以，如果您願意的話，這就是您對美國市場充滿信心的美國。除了對太空的興奮之外，當我談論歐洲時，我必須讓你們回到一些現實情況。

So Europe is expected to continue see softening in demand, led primarily by Western Europe. Any growth in the resilient and markets will be more than offset by a decline in the industrial sector. Across metals, manufacturing, chemicals, energy, all with volumes lower than last year. So in the short term, Europe has several challenges to get their economy back on their feet. And I currently don't see any catalyst for economic improvement this year.

因此，預計歐洲的需求將持續疲軟，主要由西歐帶動。任何彈性市場的成長都將被工業部門的衰退所抵消。金屬、製造業、化學品、能源等產業的交易量均低於去年。因此，短期內，歐洲經濟將面臨多重挑戰。我目前沒有看到今年經濟改善的任何催化劑。

Volumes, therefore, likely to be negative in the second half. I think it's going to be driven almost entirely by the industrial sector. Our team in Europe is doing all they can to manage through this economic environment, working on levers that they know and are in control of such as price, productivity, cost actions, and of course, you can see that reflected in the double-digit EBIT growth that they were able to provide in the quarter. But looking ahead into the rest of the year, I'm not feeling any level of confidence that you're going to see improvement, if anything, you're going to see a likely decline continue there. If I move on to Asia, I'll start with China maybe and just tell you, China remains a mixed bag.

因此，下半年的交易量可能為負值。我認為這幾乎將完全由工業部門推動。我們在歐洲的團隊正在盡其所能應對這種經濟環境，利用他們熟悉和控制的槓桿，如價格、生產力、成本行動，當然，您可以從他們在本季度實現的兩位數息稅前利潤增長中看到這一點。但展望今年剩餘時間，我並不確信情況會有所改善，如果有的話，情況很可能會繼續下滑。如果我轉向亞洲，我可能會從中國開始，並告訴你，中國仍然是一個好壞參半的國家。

You've heard me say this in previous calls. I expect China to remain flat for the year, and that continues to be our expectation. There is EVs and batteries and electronics end markets that will continue to grow, but that will be more than offset by much weaker metals and chemicals for the remainder of the year. Industrial activity in Australia is seeing declines, which are similar to Europe, almost across all industrial sectors. Really a reflection of the level of industrial activity in the country.

您在之前的通話中已經聽到我說過這一點。我預期中國今年的經濟將保持平穩，這也是我們的預期。電動車、電池和電子產品終端市場將繼續成長，但今年剩餘時間內金屬和化學品的疲軟程度將遠遠抵消這一成長。澳洲的工業活動正在下滑，幾乎涵蓋所有工業領域，與歐洲的情況類似。確實反映了該國的工業活動水平。

Again, the Linde team there is busy executing their self-help actions, which will show results at the back end of the year and beyond. Now the bright spot in APAC remains India with merchant volumes growing in the teens, and a healthy opportunity pipeline for new investments. This is unfortunately offset by declines in the ASEAN countries. South Korea, the other main market in APAC, mainly driven by electronics, end market is also expected to see some growth. So all in, I'd say when you wrap it all up for APAC, it's probably going to be just balanced or flat volumes for the year.

再次，那裡的林德團隊正忙於執行他們的自助行動，這將在今年年底及以後顯現。目前，亞太地區的亮點仍然是印度，商家數量以十幾歲的速度成長，並且擁有健康的新投資機會。不幸的是，這被東協國家的下滑所抵消。韓國是亞太地區的另一個主要市場，主要受電子產品驅動，終端市場預計也會出現一些成長。總而言之，我想說，當你總結亞太地區的所有情況時，全年的銷售可能只是平衡或持平。

That essentially is how we are seeing the market. I think the summary is resilient end markets continue to have low to mid-single-digit growth, more than offset by the industrial sector, largely across the board, particular negativity coming out of EMEA.

這基本上就是我們對市場的看法。我認為總結一下就是，有韌性的終端市場繼續保持低到中等個位數的成長，但被工業部門（主要是整個產業）所抵消，尤其是來自歐洲、中東和非洲地區的負面情緒。

David Begleiter, Deutsche Bank.

大衛‧貝格萊特，德意志銀行。

Sanjiv, your price mix has been very stable over a number of years. Do you see any risk of not getting future price increases given the weak macro we're now in?

Sanjiv，多年來，你們的價格組合一直非常穩定。鑑於我們目前所處的宏觀經濟形勢疲軟，您是否認為未來價格不會上漲有風險？

So David, I've often quoted that over the last 25 years, Fraxel Linde has always achieved positive pricing. Being -- be it through economic cycles, which are up or down. And I think I'd say to you that remains the expectation going forward as well. A great proxy for our pricing is globally weighted CPI. You should see us track to that as we do at the moment.

大衛，我經常引用一句話，在過去的 25 年裡，Fraxel Linde 一直保持著積極的定價。無論是經濟週期的上升還是下降。我想我會告訴你們，這也是我們對未來的期望。我們的定價的一個很好的代理指標是全球加權CPI。您應該看到我們現在正在追蹤這一點。

And I guess when I look at pricing today, and you can see the numbers as we provided in the deck, you'll see that pricing across all countries is actually pursuing that and in line with that globally weighted CPI. There is an exception, China, which sits in APAC, which has got some challenges, particularly around helium pricing, where we are seeing high single-digit kind of price declines. And some rare gases as well. And a little bit more pressure on China pricing generally. But beyond that, every other country is tracking in line with our expectations.

我想，當我查看今天的定價時，您可以看到我們在簡報中提供的數字，您會發現所有國家的定價實際上都在追求這一點，並與全球加權 CPI 保持一致。有一個例外，位於亞太地區的中國，它面臨一些挑戰，特別是在氦氣定價方面，我們看到了高個位數的價格下跌。還有一些稀有氣體。整體而言，中國定價面臨更大壓力。但除此之外，其他所有國家都正按照我們的預期發展。

So I do not see any reason why we would not see positive pricing going forward. I've said this many times in the past, David, that the way we create value for the customer, and the fact that we are a small sliver of the cost stack, I think that balance always works in our favor when we have a conversation on pricing.

因此，我認為我們沒有理由不看到未來積極的定價。大衛，我過去曾多次說過，我們為客戶創造價值的方式，以及我們只是成本堆疊中一小部分的事實，我認為當我們談論定價時，這種平衡總是對我們有利。

Vincent Andrews, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的文森安德魯斯。

I wanted to ask on margins, particularly in the Americas, where margins were flat year-over-year, but you did have positive price and volume. But in some of the other segments, you had margin expansion year-over-year with maybe not as robust volume and price. So is that a function of the business mix in the quarter in the Americas? Or is there something else going on?

我想問一下利潤率，特別是在美洲，那裡的利潤率與去年同期持平，但價格和銷售確實呈正增長。但在其他一些領域，利潤率同比增長，但銷售和價格可能不那麼強勁。那麼這是本季美洲業務組合的功能嗎？還是有其他事情發生？

I'll let Matt respond to that and then I'll add a couple of comments at the end.

我會讓馬特對此作出回應，然後我會在最後添加一些評論。

Vince. I'll start with any time you look at quarters, you can always have some noise and some bumpiness. I mean we always tend to see that within the quarters. For me, the most important thing is how you're tracking full year and year-to-date. That being said, yes, you're going to have some mix in there, primarily with some of the home care, I'd say, that might be a little bit of an impact.

文斯。我首先要說的是，無論何時，當你看到季度時，你總會感覺到一些噪音和一些顛簸。我的意思是我們總是傾向於在季度內看到這一點。對我來說，最重要的是如何追蹤全年和年初至今的情況。話雖如此，是的，你會有一些混合，主要是一些家庭護理，我想說，這可能會有一點影響。

But we feel quite good at almost 32% margins we're tracking. We clearly see more room to improve. We expect to improve that further. So I wouldn't look very far into a single quarter at this point. And I don't think there's anything really of concern on a go-forward in my basis. But (multiple speakers)

但我們對我們追蹤到的近 32% 的利潤率感到非常滿意。我們清楚地看到還有更多的進步空間。我們希望進一步改善這一點。因此，目前我不會對單一季度進行太深入的觀察。我認為，在我的基礎上，未來沒有什麼值得擔心的事。但（多位發言者）

Thanks, Matt, I think you've actually covered it all. All I'd say is the expectation of margin expansion is something that we have laid out. That 30 to 50 basis points of margin expansion is how you should be thinking about the margins across all the segments.

謝謝，馬特，我認為你實際上已經涵蓋了所有內容。我想說的是，利潤率擴大的預期是我們已經制定的。30 到 50 個基點的利潤率擴張是您應該考慮所有部門的利潤率的方式。

Laurent Favre, BNP.

法國國家銀行的洛朗法夫爾。

I was wondering if you could talk about the appetite on your projects from customers given the macro backdrop that you are indicating? Is there any risk of, I guess, a slowdown, or slippage on intake so that your backlog may finish the year below $7 billion?

我想知道您是否可以根據您所指出的宏觀背景來談談客戶對您的專案的興趣？我猜，是否存在接收量放緩或下滑的風險，以至於今年的積壓訂單金額可能低於 70 億美元？

So Laurent, I said this in the last call, as I recall, my expectation remains that we will end the year with a backlog with a [7] handle on it. Now this despite the fact that we will start up another $1 billion of the investments that are currently sitting in our backlog in the second half of this year, and most of that will start ramping up towards the back end. So our view, my view remains and our business is currently supporting and giving me confidence that there is enough opportunity pipeline on projects that we're currently working on that we will be able to bring home a $1 billion to get that backlog to $7 billion-plus.

所以，洛朗，我記得我在上次電話會議上說過，我仍然預計到今年年底，我們將有 [7] 個積壓問題需要解決。儘管我們將在今年下半年啟動目前積壓的另外 10 億美元投資，並且大部分將在後端開始增加。因此，我們的觀點，我的觀點保持不變，而且我們的業務目前正在支持並讓我相信，我們目前正在進行的項目有足夠的機會管道，我們將能夠帶回 10 億美元，使積壓訂單達到 70 億美元以上。

Jeff Zekauskas, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Jeff Zekauskas。

Both you and your products had very strong EBIT growth in Europe. I think for both of you, it was double digits, which was a step-up. Did something happen in Europe to the industry in general? Was it a function of currency? Was it a function of other factors?

您和您的產品在歐洲都實現了非常強勁的息稅前利潤成長。我認為對你們兩位來說，這都是兩位數，這是一個進步。歐洲的整個產業是否發生了一些事情？這是貨幣的功能嗎？它是由其他因素引起的嗎？

And secondly, your competitors in Allentown also said that the [Gilian] penalty to them was $0.55 or $0.60 a share as they estimated for 2025. When you heard that number, did you say, oh, that makes sense? That's a comparable -- sort of comparable to what we're experiencing, or do you have a different experience if you are quantifying it?

其次，你們在阿倫敦的競爭對手也表示，根據他們估計，到 2025 年，[Gilian] 對他們的罰款將為每股 0.55 美元或 0.60 美元。當你聽到這個數字時，你是否會說，哦，這有道理嗎？這與我們所經歷的具有可比性——或者說，如果您量化它，您是否有不同的經驗？

So Jeff, I'll let Matt talk about the EBIT growth, and then I'll give you a comment on Gilian.

傑夫，我會讓馬特談談息稅前利潤的成長，然後我會給你對吉莉安的評論。

Yes, Jeff. So I mean just using our table in the back with EMEA, clearly, FX is part of that, right? You've got a 4% component of our 11% growth. Obviously, the euro has strengthened, the sterling has strengthened. So that's definitely helping.

是的，傑夫。所以我的意思是，只要使用我們後面的 EMEA 表格，顯然 FX 是其中的一部分，對嗎？在我們 11% 的成長中，您貢獻了 4% 的份額。顯然，歐元走強，英鎊走強。所以這肯定有幫助。

But on top of that, we continue to have pricing opportunities. We continue to have productivity opportunities. So while the volume is negative, a large portion of that are with the on-site contracts, which are heavy volume effect, but they tend not to be overly impactful to the operating profit given the fixed fee structure. And so that's kind of the makeup that we have strong contracts. We continue to price to inflation.

但除此之外，我們仍然有定價機會。我們繼續擁有提高生產力的機會。因此，雖然交易量為負，但其中很大一部分來自現場合同，這會產生很大的交易量效應，但考慮到固定費用結構，它們往往不會對營業利潤產生過大影響。這就是我們簽訂強而有力的合約的基礎。我們繼續根據通貨膨脹來定價。

We have a lot of productivity initiatives, and we're getting a fairly nice tailwind on the FX. And the combination of all that is giving us the double-digit OP growth despite some of the underlying macro challenges that you see. Clearly, when we lap that and that stabilizes, that should give us some opportunity. But at this stage, we're not banking on that, and we're not guiding that. We're just kind of expecting a continuation of the same.

我們有許多提高生產力的舉措，而且我們在 FX 上獲得了相當不錯的順風。儘管存在一些潛在的宏觀挑戰，但所有這些因素的結合使我們實現了兩位數的營業利潤成長。顯然，當我們繞過它並且穩定下來時，這應該會給我們一些機會。但現階段，我們並不依賴這一點，也不會對此進行指導。我們只是希望這種情況能夠持續下去。

And on helium, Jeff, I'd say to you, as you're aware, of course, that our exposure on helium is very different and much smaller than our friends you referred to earlier. So what I'd say to you, the trends I see in helium year-to-date, our helium volumes are flat. We have not seen a decline. And yes, pricing is down high single digit. And that's really just a function of the oversupply in the market, particularly around Asia, and maybe a little bit of cooling off in demand on the electronics side of things.

關於氦氣，傑夫，我想告訴你，你當然知道，我們對氦氣的接觸與你之前提到的我們的朋友相比非常不同，而且要小得多。所以我想告訴你的是，我看到今年迄今為止氦氣的趨勢是，我們的氦氣產量持平。我們還沒有看到下降。是的，價格確實下降了個位數。這其實只是市場供應過剩的結果，尤其是在亞洲地區，也可能是電子產品需求略為降溫。

So our expectation remains that helium supply will be long. You would have seen our recent announcement that we are putting a 3 billion cubic feet helium cavern in, and that really is around making sure that we are optimizing the sourcing end of things, giving ourselves more flexibility with the cavern to ensure that we have a plan in place that addresses the sourcing cost issues associated with that and creates productivity out of that -- productivity benefit out of that sourcing. So I think, Stan, I think we don't really see a concern. And again, as I've said before, not -- it isn't a significant exposure for us.

因此我們仍然預計氦氣供應將會持續很長時間。您可能已經看到我們最近宣布將建造一個 30 億立方英尺的氦氣洞穴，這實際上是為了確保我們優化採購環節，讓我們在建造氦氣洞穴方面擁有更大的靈活性，以確保我們制定了計劃來解決與之相關的採購成本問題，並從中創造生產力效益——從採購中獲得生產力效益。所以我認為，史丹，我們真的沒有看到什麼擔憂。而且，正如我之前所說，這對我們來說不是一個重大的風險。

Matthew Dale, Bank of America.

馬修戴爾，美國銀行。

Thank you. So I just wanted to dig in on Europe a bit. So I guess, first, if we decelerate again next year, would you still feel the volumes hit your on-site? Or are customers kind of largely at the low end of their commitments? And then just longer term, right?

謝謝。所以我只是想稍微深入了解一下歐洲。所以我想，首先，如果我們明年再次減速，您是否還會感覺到交易量對您現場的影響？或者說，客戶是否大多處於承諾的低端？然後就是長期的，對嗎？

We have this de-industrialization of Europe. We're probably in the early innings of just chemical plant closures, I would suspect other industrial plant closures. And I know you've got contracts here, right, but there's a merchant, there's package. So let's -- can we just hash out what this looks like across the top line for you as you look out two years, three years? Is Europe just going to be a minus 2%, minus 5% for you? Or how do you manage what might be loss of density on closures?

歐洲正在經歷去工業化。我們可能正處於化工廠關閉的初期，我懷疑其他工業工廠也會關閉。我知道你們這裡有合同，對吧，但是這裡有商人，這裡有包裹。那麼，我們能否為您詳細分析一下，展望未來兩年或三年，這一情況對您來說意味著什麼？對您來說，歐洲的經濟成長只是-2%、-5%嗎？或者您如何處理可能因封蓋而導致的密度損失？

Matt, good question on Europe. And clearly, as you can see, we remain bearish on Europe and it's reflected in our guidance as well. But -- so that is -- that is a view for the short term. I'd say to you, we are both cautious and conservative around our expectations from Europe. I said before in my commentary that I do not see a catalyst for that fundamentally changing in the near term.

馬特，關於歐洲的問題問得好。顯然，正如您所見，我們仍然看跌歐洲，這也反映在我們的指導中。但 — — 這只是短期觀點。我想告訴你，我們對歐洲的期望既謹慎又保守。我之前在評論中說過，我認為短期內不會出現導致這種情況發生根本性改變的催化劑。

Now for the quarter, as you saw, the impact did come through. So the general macro environment that affects the merchant and package side of the business, from various end markets, but in particular, manufacturing and a little bit of chemicals and metals, led to that negative volume decline that we showed, exacerbated of course, by the on-site volume decline that you just mentioned. So that's what kind of came through. As you know well, on the on-site, the contracts do protect us well. And really, the question I ask every month is for customers who are below and top on those contracts were on size, are they paying up? And that is a critical assessment that we make. And you know what, every customer is paying us.

現在就本季而言，正如您所看到的，影響確實已經顯現。因此，影響商家和包裝業務的整體宏觀環境，來自各個終端市場，特別是製造業和少量化學品和金屬，導致了我們所顯示的銷量下降，當然，您剛才提到的現場銷量下降加劇了這一情況。這就是發生的事情。正如你所知，在現場，合約確實很好地保護了我們。事實上，我每個月都會問的問題是，那些合約金額低於和高於合約金額的客戶，他們是否支付了費用？這是我們做出的關鍵評估。你知道嗎，每個顧客都在付錢給我們。

So those signals look good. But the longer term is a question that you're also referring to, and I have been bearish on the long term, but I'm going to give you a couple of perspectives, which are kind of suggesting that you will see some potential change happen. I'm going to start off by a conversation on Germany.

所以這些訊號看起來不錯。但您也提到了長期問題，我一直對長期持悲觀看法，但我將為您提供幾個觀點，這些觀點表明您將看到一些潛在的變化發生。我首先想談談德國。

As you are aware, (inaudible) Germany has made this extraordinary commitment to investing EUR1 trillion over the next 10 years in defense and build-out of infrastructure. That's a very significant industrial stimulus the German economy. And while you debate the reasons, the reality is it will have an impact and will uplift for Germany, but also more broadly because supply chains are integrated across a slightly broader Western European region. You will feel that impact come through somewhere else as well.

如你們所知，（聽不清楚）德國做出了非凡的承諾，將在未來 10 年內投資 1 兆歐元用於國防和基礎設施建設。這對德國經濟來說是一個非常重大的工業刺激。儘管你們爭論其原因，但事實是，它將對德國產生影響並促進其發展，而且影響範圍更廣，因為供應鏈已整合到範圍稍廣的西歐地區。您也會在其他地方感受到這種影響。

So while in the short term, we are seeing some of these challenges reflect in the chemical industry, in particular, but the longer-term view, which I think is expected to start showing some initial signals -- sense of initial signals over the next couple of years, both from an increased level of infrastructure spend and defense spend, I think, will be an important part in how we look at the long-term view on Europe.

因此，雖然在短期內，我們看到其中一些挑戰尤其體現在化學工業中，但從長期來看，我認為預計將開始顯示一些初步訊號——未來幾年從增加基礎設施支出和國防支出中看到的初步訊號，我認為，將是我們如何看待歐洲長期前景的重要組成部分。

There's one other thing which I want to just cover off briefly, which is on Eastern Europe. And this relates to conversations around Ukraine rebuilt. Now I recognize we need to take that with a pinch of salt, just given everything that we're reading in the newspapers at the moment. But the reality is at some stage, there will be a resolution of sorts, and that will result in potentially moving the Ukraine rebuild forward. Large numbers being thrown around.

還有一件事我想簡單談一下，那就是關於東歐。這與重建烏克蘭的對話有關。現在我意識到我們需要對此持懷疑態度，因為考慮到我們目前在報紙上讀到的一切。但現實是，在某個階段，將會有某種解決方案，並有可能推動烏克蘭重建進程。大量數字被拋來拋去。

I take them with again, a fairly large pinch of salt. But we have operated in Ukraine over the last three years. We continue to supply steel mills medical facilities, et cetera, with product even today. And we are pretty strongly positioned for any recovery that happens in Ukraine, not just for the Ukrainian business, which by all standards is on the smaller end. But by the infrastructure and footprint we hold in Eastern Europe broadly, which is a very strong footprint supporting whatever happens in Ukraine.

我再次對他們抱持相當大的懷疑。但過去三年我們一直在烏克蘭開展業務。直到今天，我們仍繼續向鋼鐵廠、醫療設施等提供產品。我們對烏克蘭的任何復甦都處於非常有利的地位，不僅是對烏克蘭業務而言，從各方面來看，烏克蘭業務規模都比較小。但從我們在東歐的廣泛基礎設施和影響力來看，無論烏克蘭發生什麼，這都是一個非常強大的影響力。

So those two -- those two developments, I would say, Matt, are going to detail how the longer-term development in Europe is going to look like. And again, we'll have to wait and watch how that plays out. I obviously can say with a high degree of confidence that Germany will go through that recovery in the foreseeable future. Ukraine, we'll have to just see when that happens.

所以，馬特，我想說，這兩個發展將詳細說明歐洲的長期發展將會是什麼樣子。我們還得拭目以待，看看事情會如何發展。我顯然可以非常自信地說，德國將在可預見的未來實現復甦。烏克蘭，我們只能拭目以待。

Mike Sison, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的麥克·西森。

Nice quarter. I just wanted to dig into a little space a little bit. The recent agreement to merchant contract, as I recall. So when do you think -- when do you think these will convert into an on-site, and maybe frame up the growth potential since we're sort of in an early phase of the development for that industry?

不錯的季度。我只是想稍微挖掘一下空間。我記得最近與商家簽訂了合約協議。那麼您認為什麼時候——您認為這些時候這些會轉化為現場，並且可能構成成長潛力，因為我們正處於該行業發展的早期階段？

Sure, Mike. Great question. So I said in my commentary earlier on describing my walk around the world that I do see space as a very attractive opportunity for growth. And the fact that Linde has been so well positioned, particularly in the US with a history of more than five decades of supporting space development and more recently, significant rocket launches.

當然，麥克。好問題。因此，我在之前描述我環遊世界之旅的評論中說過，我確實將太空視為一個非常有吸引力的成長機會。事實上，林德公司一直佔據有利地位，尤其是在美國，該公司已有五十多年支持太空開發的歷史，最近也支持了重要的火箭發射。

Our two new investments are going to significantly spur that growth momentum. Now having said that, let me give you a couple of data points just to help you kind of frame the growth potential that you were asking about. So over the last three years or so, we've seen our supplies in the space and our revenue generated from that commercial space segment almost quadruple. We today supply, I would say, more than four out of five launches that happen in the US.

我們的兩項新投資將極大地刺激這一成長勢頭。話雖如此，讓我給你幾個數據點，以幫助你概括你所詢問的成長潛力。因此，在過去三年左右的時間裡，我們在太空領域的供應和從商業太空領域獲得的收入幾乎翻了兩番。我想說，今天在美國進行的五分之四以上的發射都是我們提供的。

And the investments we're making in the infrastructure through the air separation plants, the distribution equipment, because much of this liquid is carried in and out using tankers, hydrogen production, related infrastructure, all of those by the end of the next couple three years, we would have invested just under $1 billion in building this infrastructure to support the space ecosystem going forward.

我們透過空氣分離裝置、配送設備等基礎設施進行投資，因為大部分液體都是透過油輪運輸進出的，還有氫氣生產、相關基礎設施，所有這些在未來三年內，我們將投資近 10 億美元用於建設這些基礎設施，以支持未來的太空生態系統。

I also mentioned that I see not just one, probably the most prominent launch company. I may not name them, but I know you'll know who they are. We'll have a prolific number of launches. But actually, we're seeing that spread in many other companies in that space now scaling up and looking at future programs as well. So again, I see that opportunity pipeline for growth being very, very attractive.

我還提到，我看到的可能不只一家，而是最著名的發射公司。我可能不會說出他們的名字，但我知道你會知道他們是誰。我們將進行大量的發射。但實際上，我們看到該領域的許多其他公司也在擴大規模並考慮未來的計劃。因此，我再次看到成長機會管道非常非常有吸引力。

They have strong customer commitments, Mike. So just to make the point on-site versus merchant, the critical factor here is you have a strong customer commitment, and we have strong long-term customer commitments. It's just a commercial structure that doesn't allow us to classify that. And as you know, we have a very disciplined and rigorous definition of backlog that I spoke to earlier, so we just don't put them in the backlog for that reason. But the customer commitments are there, and they are over a long term.

他們對客戶有著強烈的承諾，麥克。因此，僅就現場與商家而言，關鍵因素是您擁有強大的客戶承諾，而我們擁有強大的長期客戶承諾。這只是一種商業結構，不允許我們對其進行分類。如你所知，我們對積壓有一個非常嚴格和嚴謹的定義，我之前提到過，所以我們不會因為這個原因就把它們放在積壓中。但客戶承諾是存在的，而且是長期的。

John Mcnulty, BMO Capital Markets.

蒙特利爾銀行資本市場 (BMO Capital Markets) 的 John Mcnulty。

Nice results in a tough environment. Just wanted to dig a little bit more into the sale of gas project backlog. And in particular, just get some color as to whether you see the return profile of those projects having improved over the last few years as that backlog has built up? It seems like with one of your competitors maybe focused in other areas, the opportunity set might be higher for you just given there's maybe less competition for that? But I guess, is that a fair way to think about it? Or maybe you can add some color to it?

在艱苦的環境中取得了不錯的成績。只是想更深入了解天然氣專案積壓的銷售情況。特別是，您是否能了解一下，隨著積壓訂單的增加，這些項目的回報情況在過去幾年中是否有所改善？似乎您的某個競爭對手可能專注於其他領域，考慮到該領域的競爭可能較少，您的機會可能會更多？但我想，這是一種公平的思考方式嗎？或者也許您可以給它添加一些顏色？

Sure. The sale of gas backlog in every individual project that sits in there, all 70 of them, John, have gone through the rigorous process of being assessed at our investment committees, against that investment criteria that we set out. And not only do we go through that process with some rigor, and they've met the investment criteria, they obviously get approved and go into the backlog. So the return profile hasn't moved significantly because the risk return equation has to play out based on the investment criteria that we have. So I feel pretty good about the return profile that we have.

當然。約翰，那裡的每個單獨項目中的天然氣積壓銷售，全部 70 個，都經過了我們投資委員會的嚴格評估過程，符合我們制定的投資標準。我們不僅嚴格地完成了這個過程，而且他們還滿足了投資標準，顯然獲得了批准並進入了積壓階段。因此，回報狀況並沒有顯著變化，因為風險回報方程式必須根據我們現有的投資標準來發揮作用。所以我對我們的回報狀況感到非常滿意。

But an equally important portion of that return profile is how well do you execute? The point I made earlier on in my prepared remarks around the turnover of the backlog is absolutely critical. For an industrial gas company, it is very important to be able to execute them in a timely manner to have a strong contractual position to ensure that you're monetizing that project and creating a return that were promised, when they were presented at the Investment Committee. And I feel really good about the capabilities that we have within Linde, both on the engineering side. Our team does a phenomenal job over there, and on the gas side, where we do some great contracting and work closely with customers.

但回報概況中同樣重要的部分是您的執行情況如何？我之前在準備好的發言中提到了有關積壓案件週轉率的觀點，這絕對至關重要。對於工業氣體公司來說，能夠及時執行這些合約非常重要，這樣才能擁有強大的合約地位，確保將該項目貨幣化，並創造在投資委員會上提出時承諾的回報。我對林德在工程方面的能力感到非常滿意。我們的團隊在那裡做得非常出色，在天然氣方面，我們簽訂了一些出色的合約並與客戶密切合作。

That's really what's reflected in that return profile, which you then see as we start these projects up, come back and reflect on the EPS growth that we commit out of these decisions that we make. So I feel good about that. I'll give you one of the data points since you asked about how that competitive kind of environment look. (inaudible) actually did a really nice study a couple of years ago, which looked back and said, if you think about the competitive dynamics when you're bidding out these projects, about half the time the decision is a make or buy decision. As you know, our customers are sophisticated.

這實際上就是回報概況所反映的內容，當我們啟動這些專案時，您會看到，回過頭來反思我們根據所做的這些決定所承諾的每股盈餘成長。所以我對此感覺很好。既然您詢問這種競爭環境是什麼樣的，我會給您一個數據點。 （聽不清楚）實際上幾年前做過一項非常好的研究，回顧起來說，如果您在競標這些項目時考慮競爭動態，大約有一半的時間是做出或購買的決定。如您所知，我們的客戶非常精明。

They will make a make or buy decision. And of course, if there are projects where we have an interest, we are usually able to get that converted into a sale of gas project because we can show the benefits and the benefits of the reliability, safe delivery of product coming with the benefit of network density. I think that's a very compelling case for the customers. But about half of those projects are made by. About a third of the projects are where you see one of the competitor in the frame.

他們將做出製造或購買的決定。當然，如果我們對某些項目感興趣，我們通常能夠將其轉化為天然氣項目的銷售，因為我們可以展示其優勢以及可靠性、產品安全交付以及網路密度帶來的優勢。我認為這對客戶來說是一個非常有說服力的案例。但其中約有一半項目是由…完成的。在大約三分之一的項目中，你會在畫面中看到競爭對手之一。

And the rest, you see multiple competitors. We tend to be very selective about projects in what's left over. So from our perspective, that hasn't changed. That analysis is still relevant. And I think we obviously have to be have to have a compelling proposition for our customers when they look at it for them to move over.

而在其餘部分，你會看到多個競爭對手。我們傾向於對剩餘的項目進行非常嚴格的篩選。所以從我們的角度來看，這並沒有改變。該分析仍然有意義。我認為，我們顯然必須向客戶提供一個令人信服的方案，讓他們接受我們的方案。

Patrick Cunningham, Citigroup.

花旗集團的派崔克‧坎寧安。

I'm curious on the electronics outlook for here. It seems year-on-year and sequential growth is down slightly. How much of this is helium pricing, or maybe there was some modest pull forward in positioning in 1Q? And how would you characterize the shape of volume and new project starts for the balance of the year?

我對這裡的電子產品前景很好奇。看起來同比和環比增長略有下降。其中有多少是氦氣定價，或是在第一季的定位上是否有所進步？您如何描述今年剩餘時間的交易量和新專案開工？

Thanks, Patrick. So let me just start off by making sure that this is understood well. The industrial gases sales to the electronics end market grew both year-on-year and sequentially. The drop that you see in the end market slide that we have in the tech is all driven by our Advanced Materials business that sits in the global Other segment, which provides electronics targets to some of these electronics customers. The instance over here was destocking happening with one of the larger customers, and that's going to correct itself in the second half. So really no concerns there.

謝謝，派崔克。因此，首先讓我確保大家能夠很好地理解這一點。工業氣體對電子終端市場的銷售量較去年同期成長，較上季成長。您看到的終端市場下滑是由於我們技術部門位於全球其他領域的先進材料業務所致，該業務為部分電子客戶提供電子靶材。這裡的例子是其中一個較大的客戶正在進行去庫存化，這種情況將在下半年得到糾正。所以確實沒有什麼好擔心的。

Just to clarify what the Advanced Materials group is doing over here. So essentially, the Advanced Materials group develops and builds, manufactures, precious metal targets, which are used in the chip making process to deposit a thin film of materials onto the semiconductor wafers. So the process about sputtering, what happens is we provide high energy particles bombarding the target that's been set up. And what it does is it checks these atoms to then provide a coating, a very thin level of coating on the wafer, forming layers for components like transistors, interconnects, et cetera. All of this is about putting very precise material deposition on the integrated circuitry.

只是為了澄清先進材料小組在這裡做什麼。因此，從本質上講，先進材料集團開發、製造和生產貴金屬靶材，這些靶材用於晶片製造過程中將材料薄膜沉積到半導體晶片上。因此，濺射過程是我們提供高能量粒子轟擊已設定的目標。它的作用是檢查這些原子，然後在晶圓上提供一層非常薄的塗層，形成電晶體、互連等組件的層。所有這些都是為了在積體電路上放置非常精確的材料沉積。

And that's what sits in that Advanced Materials business, which is the reason why you see that slightly negative. Now as far as electronics outlook is concerned, my expectation remains that we have a very healthy -- not expectation. The fact remains that we have a healthy pipeline of projects that are going to come up in the next 12 months or so, and we will obviously be participating. And as you would expect from Linde, be winning more than our fair share of those projects. The outlook for both new projects as well as startups remains on track with the backlog that we've just shown you.

這就是先進材料業務的現狀，也是你認為其業績略微不佳的原因。現在就電子產品的前景而言，我仍然期望我們有一個非常健康的 - 不是期望。事實上，我們擁有一系列健康的項目，這些項目將在未來 12 個月左右推出，我們顯然會參與其中。正如您對林德的期望一樣，我們贏得的這些項目中的份額超過了應有的份額。根據我們剛剛向您展示的積壓情況，新專案和新創企業的前景仍然正常。

John Roberts, Mizuho.

瑞穗的約翰羅伯茲。

The Economist Magazine this week has a story on what's called green bushing. So your backlog, you said it's going to grow. The point of the story was that companies are still going forward with their energy transition investments. They just don't talk about it as much. It's not making the headline.

《經濟學人》雜誌本周刊登了一篇有關「綠色套管」的報導。所以你說你的積壓訂單會增加。故事的重點是，企業仍在繼續推動能源轉型投資。他們只是不太談論這個。這並沒有成為頭條新聞。

So two or three years from now, do you think energy transition will be still as big a percentage of your backlog? Or based on what you're currently talking to customers about, are they actually pulling away? Because we don't hear a lot of companies talking about their energy transition programs anymore?

那麼，兩三年後，您認為能源轉型仍將佔您積壓訂單的很大比例嗎？或者根據您目前與客戶的談話內容，他們實際上是否正在離開？因為我們不再聽到很多公司談論他們的能源轉型計畫？

John, we recognize that customers will continue to need to decarbonize our operations. I expect the demand for low-carbon products to continue to grow over time. It's just a hype and the euphoria has gone away and reality is sunk in and that reality is a more stable, economically viable set of projects, which will go to FID and get contracted. Those are the kinds of products and look at the risk of saying I told you so we've said this for the last, I don't know, three years. None of this should come as a surprise to you or anyone else who has been on these earnings calls because we've said, look, it's unrealistic to expect this green hydrogen to get up to a point where it's at scale, it's cost competitive and it actually adds and creates value.

約翰，我們認識到客戶將繼續需要使我們的營運脫碳。我預計對低碳產品的需求將隨著時間的推移而持續增長。這只是一種炒作，興奮感已經消失，現實已經深入人心，而現實是一系列更加穩定、經濟可行的項目，這些項目將進入最終投資決定 (FID) 並簽訂合約。這些都是產品類型，考慮到說「我告訴過你」的風險，所以我們在過去三年裡一直這麼說。對於您或參加這些收益電話會議的任何人來說，這些都不應該感到驚訝，因為我們已經說過，看，期望這種綠色氫能達到規模化、成本競爭力和實際增加和創造價值的程度是不現實的。

We've always said that, that's probably a five- to seven-year window for the technology to mature, and then you will see the commercials play out. So I'm not surprised by this article. The reality is low-carbon alternatives, which is low carbon hydrogen, otherwise known as blue hydrogen, or low-carbon pneumonia, or products of that (inaudible) will still have a demand in the marketplace, and we see solid projects with good economic cases supported further by incentives such as the 45Q remain around. And we are developing a number of those even today why we execute a number of those around the world as well. So my view is, I think this trend is not going to stop. There is an increasingly an economic case for it. So good projects, which create that economic value will still see progress and move to FID and get contracted.

我們一直說，這可能需要五到七年的時間才能使技術成熟，然後你就會看到廣告播出。所以我對這篇文章並不感到驚訝。現實情況是，低碳替代品，也就是低碳氫，也稱為藍氫或低碳肺炎，或者其產品（聽不清楚）仍然會在市場上有需求，而且我們看到，在 45Q 等激勵措施的支持下，具有良好經濟案例的穩健項目仍然存在。我們今天仍在開發其中的許多產品，這也是我們在世界各地執行其中許多產品的原因。所以我的觀點是，我認為這種趨勢不會停止。有越來越多的經濟理由支持這個觀點。因此，創造經濟價值的優秀項目仍將取得進展，進入最終投資決定 (FID) 階段並簽訂合約。

Josh Spector, UBS.

瑞銀的喬希·斯佩克特。

I wanted to ask just coming back to the guidance assumptions around things. Linde's approach has been -- we're seeing the market like X and we're forecasting X. It seems like in this case, we're seeing the volumes down 1%, and now your forecast is maybe at the midpoint, down 2%, something like that. So I'd just be curious, obviously, it's a weak market, no one is expecting anything incredibly exciting here. But are you seeing anything either in June, July trends, I would say you that there is weakening, and that's more of a correct way to think about it? Or is this just added conservatism for everything we don't know about FX included?

我只是想問一下有關事物的指導假設。林德的做法是－我們看到市場是 X，我們預測也是 X。看起來在這種情況下，我們看到銷量下降了 1%，而現在您的預測可能處於中間點，下降 2%，諸如此類。所以我只是好奇，顯然，這是一個疲軟的市場，沒有人期待這裡會發生任何令人興奮的事情。但是，您是否看到 6 月或 7 月的趨勢有什麼變化？我想說的是，這種趨勢正在減弱，這是一種更正確的思考方式嗎？或者這只是因為我們對 FX 還不了解而增加的保守主義？

Josh, it's Matt. So I think we'll start with the volumes, to your point, they're down 1% in the quarter, but the base volumes are down 2%. So when we think about sort of our economic projection, we're really talking to the base volumes because the backlog is pretty much on autopilot, right? That's contractual. So that is independent of any macro view.

喬希，我是馬特。所以我認為我們應該從交易量開始，正如你所說，本季交易量下降了 1%，但基礎交易量下降了 2%。因此，當我們考慮我們的經濟預測時，我們實際上是在談論基本數量，因為積壓幾乎是自動駕駛的，對嗎？這是合約規定的。因此，這與任何宏觀觀點無關。

So starting with the minus 2% on the base volumes that occurred this quarter. To your point, the current guide on the top end is assuming that 2% year-over-year continues out for the back half. Now while the year-on-year assumption in the top half is being held consistent last year, the comps got a little easier. So it does imply the worsening on a sequential basis. We'll see if that happens.

因此，從本季基數下降 2% 開始。正如您所說，目前的最高指導價是假設下半年的年成長率將持續達到 2%。現在，雖然上半年的同比假設與去年保持一致，但同比情況變得稍微容易一些。因此，這確實意味著情況會持續惡化。我們將拭目以待。

When I think about it in combination, clearly, FX rates improved meaning the dollar weakened, given the uncertainty, given some of the flight to different currencies. So it isn't related. And so I think from this perspective, maybe you see current. Maybe see the dollar strengthen a bit, things stabilize, maybe you see the opposite. But at this point, I think about them in combination.

當我綜合考慮這些因素時，顯然，外匯匯率的改善意味著美元走弱，這是由於存在不確定性，以及部分資金轉向其他貨幣。所以這沒有關係。所以我認為從這個角度來看，也許你看到了目前的情況。也許你會看到美元稍微走強，情況趨於穩定，也許你會看到相反的情況。但此時，我會把它們結合起來考慮。

And we'll have to see how it plays out. But the top end pretty much has about a 2% base volume negative assumption, which is probably double the effect on EPS for the remainder of the year. And we're going to do what we can to do better than that. But that's what we laid out. This is what we set down, and we'll have to see how it plays out.

我們將拭目以待事情將如何發展。但最高端基本上有大約 2% 的基本交易量負面假設，這可能是今年剩餘時間內對每股盈餘影響的兩倍。我們將盡我們所能做得更好。但這就是我們所製定的。這就是我們所設定的，我們必須看看它如何發揮作用。

Kevin McCarthy, Vertical Research Partners.

凱文·麥卡錫（Kevin McCarthy），Vertical Research Partners。

Matt, what impact, if any, does the passage of the one Big Beautiful Bill Act have maybe internally for Linde, or I appreciate any thoughts you may have on any early feedback from your customer base as to potential stimulus in the Americas? And just wondering if it has any meaningful impact at all on your '25 guide? Or how you're thinking conceptually about the '26 outlook?

馬特，如果有的話，《大美麗法案》的通過將對林德內部產生什麼影響，或者我很欣賞您對客戶群對美洲潛在刺激措施的任何早期反饋的看法？我只是想知道它是否對您的 '25 指南有任何有意義的影響？或者您如何從概念上思考 26 年的前景？

Sure. So I think when we start thinking about the bill, and I'll stick mostly to the taxes right now. What it mainly did was make permanent a lot of the existing tax policy that we were operating under since the 2017 act. And that in and of itself, I think, is positive and that it gives more confidence looking ahead. When you think about the US tax policy, it had a lot of temporary items. And those temporary items can be difficult to do long-term planning, and long-term investments in the country because of the uncertainty, whether those temporary items will continue or not. And with the passage of the bill, it made many of these things permanent. And I think that in and of itself is good. Now when you look at kind of breaking it down for us, on an ETR basis, I'm not expecting much impact.

當然。所以我認為當我們開始考慮這項法案時，我現在會主要關注稅收問題。它的主要作用是使我們自 2017 年法案以來實施的許多現有稅收政策永久化。我認為，這本身就是正面的，它能讓我們更有信心地展望未來。當你考慮美國的稅收政策時，你會發現它有很多臨時項目。而且，由於不確定這些臨時項目是否會繼續下去，因此很難進行長期規劃並在該國進行長期投資。隨著法案的通過，其中許多事情都已成為永久性的。我認為這本身是件好事。現在，當您以 ETR 為基礎對其進行分解時，我預計不會產生太大的影響。

Again, our current run rate had in it primarily the 2017 effect, and this just extends and makes that permanent. So if anything, if this didn't pass, I would have expected a worse ETR. But given it is not, I expect no change. On the cash tax front, this will be net beneficial. And the primary driver is the reinstatement of the bonus depreciation.

再次強調，我們目前的運行率主要受到 2017 年的影響，而這只是延續並使之永久化。因此，如果這項法案沒有通過，我預計 ETR 會更糟。但既然事實並非如此，我預計也不會有改變。從現金稅方面來看，這將是淨收益。主要驅動因素是恢復獎金折舊。

You may recall that was something that was part of the 2017 act. However, it phased out and essentially has been gone for probably a little over a year, with both the reinstatement of that and the retroactive nature back to January this year will give cash tax benefits to companies that make large capital investments into the country of which we will benefit from the -- especially given the vast majority of our backlog right now has US exposure. And what that also will do is make IRRs on projects better. We saw the same effect in 2017.

您可能還記得這是 2017 年法案的一部分。然而，它已經逐步取消，基本上已經消失了一年多一點，恢復這一政策並追溯到今年 1 月，將為在該國進行大規模資本投資的公司提供現金稅收優惠，我們將從中受益 - 特別是考慮到我們目前的絕大多數積壓訂單都與美國有關。這也將使專案的 IRR 變得更好。我們在2017年也看到了同樣的效果。

How much the IRR improves? It's a function of a couple of different things. But I'd say, on average, you'd probably see -- you can see almost 100 basis point improvement. So anyone making long-term investments in the country now will get a tailwind from the accelerated depreciation. So get more confidence from making permanent a lot of the tax policy.

IRR 提高了多少？它是由幾個不同事物組成的函數。但我想說，平均而言，你可能會看到——你可以看到幾乎 100 個基點的改善。因此，現在任何在該國進行長期投資的人都會從人民幣加速貶值中獲得好處。因此，透過使許多稅收政策永久化可以獲得更多信心。

And I think all in all, that will be a positive development. Now aside from income taxes, clearly, 45Q was enhanced a bit. We view that as positive. That's something that, as Sanjiv mentioned, is the I'd say the primary incentive that was being looked at for a lot of the blue projects. And by making that even more attractive, I think that will further help any views to use that.

我認為總的來說這將是一個積極的發展。現在，除了所得稅之外，顯然 45Q 得到了一點增強。我們認為這是積極的。正如 Sanjiv 所提到的，我認為這是許多藍色項目所考慮的主要激勵因素。透過使其更具吸引力，我認為這將進一步幫助任何觀點利用它。

So for us, we view it as a net-net positive. I would say, for anyone constructing in the country would view it as positive for capital intensity. And any type of low-carbon products, especially with a hydrocarbon base would view it as positive. So that's kind of how I would summarize it.

因此對我們來說，我們認為這是一件好事。我想說，任何在該國進行建設的人都會認為這對資本密集度有利。任何類型的低碳產品，尤其是以碳氫化合物為基礎的產品都會被視為積極的產品。這就是我的總結。

James Hooper, Bernstein.

詹姆斯胡珀、伯恩斯坦。

I wanted to go back to Europe and a little bit about the energy transition there. Clearly, your backlog is a very small percentage European. And we've seen some of your competitors winning low carbon hydrogen projects. We've seen it since you last reported, we've seen the action plan and the start of a plan to make a plan, if you will. Do you see this being more of an opportunity for your backlog going forward? And has this made you any more positive on energy transition in the region?

我想回到歐洲並了解那裡的能源轉型。顯然，你們的積壓訂單中只有很小一部分是歐洲的。我們看到你們的一些競爭對手贏得了低碳氫化合物項目。自從您上次報告以來，我們已經看到了，我們已經看到了行動計劃和製定計劃的開始，如果您願意的話。您是否認為這對您未來的積壓工作來說是一個更大的機會？這是否讓您對該地區的能源轉型更加樂觀？

James, I will say that there is a measured level of pragmatism in Europe today around the energy transition and the goals. Remember, however, the people that we are speaking to and primarily in this instance, the German government, the new government that's come in and giving them a sense of how we think about this regulatory framework that's in place. There is, of course, all of Brussels to still contend with. But there is a higher degree of pragmatism. There is clearly a move towards getting a bit more practical around some of the target setting, et cetera.

詹姆斯，我想說的是，當今歐洲在能源轉型和目標方面具有一定程度的實用主義。然而，請記住，我們正在與之交談的人，主要是德國政府，新上任的政府，並讓他們了解我們對現有監管框架的看法。當然，布魯塞爾的一切都還有待解決。但實用主義程度更高。顯然，在一些目標設定等方面，我們正在朝著更實際的方向發展。

So yes, I do see that as potentially having a beneficial impact on energy transition projects, which would have an economic basis, and which would support a cost-effective decarbonization program for Europe. But there is a -- in Europe, most things will take time, and this will be no exception to that. So while I appreciate the pragmatism I'm seeing, I still expect that it's going to take as long as it takes for them to actually enact whatever bills are needed to get to a point where you get cost competitive hydrogen in those countries to support the decarbonization effort.

所以是的，我確實認為這可能會對能源轉型計畫產生有益的影響，這將具有經濟基礎，並將支持歐洲具有成本效益的脫碳計畫。但在歐洲，大多數事情都需要時間，這件事也不例外。因此，雖然我很欣賞我所看到的務實態度，但我仍然預計他們還需要很長時間才能真正頒布必要的法案，以使這些國家能夠獲得具有成本競爭力的氫氣來支持脫碳工作。

Chris Parkinson, Wolfe Research.

克里斯帕金森，沃爾夫研究公司。

Sanjiv, you actually just hit on this a little bit, but behind everything else that's on in Europe on kind of the clean energy side, there's also been a lot of debate amongst the [EU 27] states regarding just improving efficiencies, protecting the chemical industry. Obviously, a lot of your core customers have been actively involved in the discussions. Could you potentially -- and there's been a lot of news even in the last three weeks or so. Could you just give us a little insight on how integral you are to those conversations? How the Linde platform could perhaps help along in terms of basically setting some guardrails?

Sanjiv，你實際上只是稍微談到了這一點，但在歐洲清潔能源方面的所有事情背後，歐盟 27 國之間也就提高效率、保護化學工業進行了大量爭論。顯然，您的許多核心客戶都積極參與了討論。有可能嗎——過去三週左右已經有很多新聞了。您能否稍微向我們介紹一下您在這些對話中扮演著多麼重要的角色？林德平台如何在基本設置一些護欄方面提供幫助？

And then also in terms of just the potential for greater infrastructure growth spend towards the end of the decade? I mean, is it wrong to think about Europe slightly differently these days? Or is it still essentially the status quo over the longer term?

那麼，就本世紀末基礎建設支出增加的潛力而言，還有其他可能性嗎？我的意思是，如今以稍微不同的方式看待歐洲是錯的嗎？或者長遠來看，它本質上仍是現狀？

So Chris, I kind of tried to describe this earlier, I'll say to you, let me deal with the infrastructure project first because that really is somewhat fundamental to any industrial recovery that's going to happen in Europe. And I think when I talk about infrastructure, I'm including defense is part of that. Germany's commitment to EUR1 trillion, I think, is clearly a very significant milestone for Germany as a country for the balance sheet and the ability to kind of finance that kind of spend. So in many ways that spending is certainly going to change our perspective -- has changed our perspective on how we think about the recovery -- industrial recovery in Europe longer term. That's a 10-year program.

克里斯，我之前嘗試描述過這一點，我會告訴你，讓我先來處理基礎設施項目，因為這對於歐洲的任何工業復甦來說都是至關重要的。我認為，當我談論基礎設施時，國防也是其中的一部分。我認為，德國承諾投資 1 兆歐元，這對德國的資產負債表和為此類支出提供資金的能力來說顯然是一個非常重要的里程碑。因此，從許多方面來說，支出肯定會改變我們的觀點——改變我們對復甦的看法——歐洲長期工業復甦的看法。這是一個十年計劃。

I manage people's expectations by telling them that look, for any procurement process to come in place, to handle that kind of spend, and for infrastructure projects, that is the need for permitting, et cetera, which across Europe generally, and Germany specifically, all take time. So don't expect any exciting announcements in the next couple of years. Maybe the back end of next year, you will start seeing some of those early projects announced. But really, most of that allocation, you should expect in the following year beyond that. So it's going to take some time, but the longer-term view around the European economy and industrial activity, is benefiting from these commitments that have been made.

我透過告訴人們，任何採購流程的到位，處理這類支出，以及基礎設施項目，都需要許可等等，來管理人們的期望，而這些在整個歐洲，特別是在德國，都需要時間。因此，不要期待未來幾年會有什麼令人興奮的公告。也許到明年年底，你會看到一些早期項目的宣布。但實際上，大部分分配應該會在接下來的一年實現。所以這需要一些時間，但從長遠來看，歐洲經濟和工業活動將受益於已經做出的這些承諾。

Obviously, Germany has made that very significant and specific commitment. Other countries have now signed up to this 5% spend for NATO. Some of that is infrastructure, 1.5% and 3.5% is defense. All of that's going to drive some level of industrial activity. So absolutely right in saying that the perspective on Europe has changed a little bit.

顯然，德國做出了非常重要且具體的承諾。其他國家現在也同意為北約提供這 5% 的支出。其中一些是基礎設施，1.5% 和 3.5% 是國防。所有這些都將推動一定程度的工業活動。所以說，對歐洲的看法已經發生了一些改變，這是完全正確的。

I'm still cautious when I look at that, and we have to see this play out and get enacted and then transacted before I would tell you with confidence in the next year, I would see this kind of growth. But for now, I think the -- directionally, it's headed in the right direction. And your earlier commentary on Linde's position in most of the serious conversations that happen in Europe particularly given our position in Germany. We are both consulted and part of many groups that are working to ensure that the real challenges that industry in Europe broadly faces because most of them being customers of ours is being adequately communicated to those who are making these decisions.

當我看到這一點時，我仍然很謹慎，我們必須看到這一進程得到實施，然後進行交易，然後我才能自信地告訴你，明年我會看到這種增長。但就目前而言，我認為——從方向上看，它正朝著正確的方向前進。您之前對林德在歐洲大多數嚴肅對話中的立場所做的評論，特別是考慮到我們在德國的立場。我們既是眾多團體的顧問，也是其中的一部分，這些團體致力於確保歐洲各行業所面臨的真正挑戰能夠充分傳達給那些做出這些決策的人，因為這些行業大多都是我們的客戶。

And that concludes our question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn the call back to Juan Pelaez for any additional or closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。現在我想把電話轉回給胡安·佩萊斯，請他發表任何補充意見或結束語。

Thank you, Abby. And thank you, everyone, for participating in today's call. Have a safe day.

謝謝你，艾比。感謝大家參加今天的電話會議。祝您有平安的一天。

And ladies and gentlemen, once again, this concludes today's call, and we thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束，感謝你們的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。