林德集團 (LIN) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Fourth Quarter and full year 2024 earnings teleconference and webcast. (Operator instructions)

女士們、先生們，大家好，感謝你們的支持。歡迎參加 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議和網路廣播。（操作員指令）

And I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Juan Pelaez, Head of Investor Relations.

現在，我想將會議移交給投資者關係主管 Juan Pelaez 先生。

Bobby, thank you again, everyone, and thanks for attending our 2024 fourth quarter earnings call and webcast, compromise, Head of Investor Relations, and I'm joined this morning by Sanjiv Lamba, Chief Executive Officer, and Matt White, Chief Financial Officer.

鮑比，再次感謝大家，感謝您參加我們的 2024 年第四季度財報電話會議和網絡廣播，妥協的投資者關係主管，今天早上與我一起參加的是首席執行官 Sanjiv Lamba 和首席財務官 Matt White。

Today's presentation material are available on our website at linda.com in the investor sections, please read the forward-looking statement disclosure on page two of the slides and note that it applies to all statements made during this teleconference. The recognition of the adjusted numbers are in the appendix to this presentation. Sanjiv will provide some opening remarks, and then Matt will give an update on the nice fourth quarter financial performance and 2025 outlook, after which we will wrap up with Q&A.

今天的簡報資料可在我們網站 linda.com 的投資者部分找到，請閱讀幻燈片第二頁的前瞻性聲明披露，並注意它適用於本次電話會議期間發表的所有聲明。調整後數字的確認請見本簡報的附錄。Sanjiv 將致開場白，然後 Matt 將介紹第四季度良好的財務業績和 2025 年展望，之後我們將進行問答。

Let me now turn the call over to Sanjiv.

現在，讓我將電話轉給 Sanjiv。

Thanks a lot and good morning, everyone. Looking back, 2024 was another successful year for the Linde organization. I'd like to personally thank the 60 plus growth while the copy of individual step decades long cultural mindset and operating rhythm, and it can best be exemplified by the results shown on slide three. From my perspective, there are four key categories, but Lindy must accept day-in and day-out to maintain a long-term industry leading position.

非常感謝，大家早安。回顧過去，2024 年對林德集團來說又是成功的一年。我個人要感謝60多年的成長歷程，以及對十年文化思維和運營節奏的複製，幻燈片三所示的結果可以最好地體現這一點。從我的角度來看，有四個關鍵類別，但 Lindy 必須日復一日地接受才能保持長期的行業領先地位。

Of course, we must deliver on our key financial metrics and remain responsible stewards of our owners capital. That's a given, but we have is this sustainable leadership position for that and the long-term that requires continued investment in our people and surrounding communities. As well as doing our part to help improve the environment.

當然，我們必須實現我們的關鍵財務指標，並繼續負責任地管理我們的所有者資本。這是理所當然的，但我們擁有可持續的領導地位，從長遠來看，我們需要持續投資於我們的人民和周邊社區。並盡我們的一份力量來幫助改善環境。

Finally, we must position ourselves for the future to ensure resilience and continuous growth and improvement. We can never be complacent based on past performance. I want to start with our people and communities because when the success has always been and always will be attributed to employees, ownership mentality and collective efforts, we continuously strive to be good corporate citizen in thousands of communities where we live and work. Also having a safe and diverse workforce is a top priority in order to ensure Lindi's competitiveness for many years to come.

最後，我們必須為未來做好準備，確保韌性和持續的成長和進步。我們絕不能因過去的表現而自滿。我想從我們的員工和社區開始，因為成功一直以來都並將永遠歸功於員工、主人翁精神和集體努力，我們不斷努力成為我們生活和工作的數千個社區的優秀企業公民。為了確保林迪在未來許多年的競爭力，擁有一支安全、多元化的勞動力隊伍也是重中之重。

And you can see the improvements we've made from an already leading position more work is to be done. And I fully expect to leverage technology in that effort. But I am pleased to see the progress made to date. While people and communities are a priority efforts towards ensuring a sustainable environment of becoming more challenging every day. I think it's fair to say we're seeing more extreme weather now than in prior years. And here at lending, we will continue to do our part to help the environment through an increased focus on low carbon power. Linde increase its active low-carbon renewable energy consumption by 19% year-over-year in 2024 for over 40% of our total power consumption is now low-carbon based. These are just a few of the many accomplishments, and I want to encourage you to read our annual report for many more.

您可以看到，我們在領先地位的基礎上取得了進步，但還有很多工作要做。我非常希望在這項努力中利用科技。但我很高興看到迄今為止的進展。而人民和社區為確保永續環境而優先努力的努力卻日益變得更具挑戰性。我認為可以公平地說，我們現在看到的極端天氣比前幾年更多。在貸款方面，我們將繼續透過更加關注低碳能源來盡自己的一份力量來幫助保護環境。林德計劃在 2024 年將其主動低碳再生能源消耗量年增 19%，目前我們總電力消耗的 40% 以上都是低碳能源。這些只是眾多成就中的一小部分，我鼓勵您閱讀我們的年度報告以了解更多成就。

Furthermore, it is rewarding to see us sustainability efforts being recognized by some of the most prestigious names, such as the Dow Jones, which included Lindy units sustainability world index for the 22nd consecutive year. In addition, we pride ourselves and help customers avoid more than two times our CO2 emissions through the use of our products and services, but there is much more work ahead to achieve our ambitious sustainability goals, including reducing our greenhouse gas emissions 35% by 2030 plan.

此外，我們很高興看到我們的永續發展努力得到一些最負盛名的機構的認可，例如道瓊斯連續第 22 年將林迪單位永續發展世界指數納入其中。此外，我們引以為傲的是，透過使用我們的產品和服務，我們幫助客戶避免了兩倍以上的二氧化碳排放量，但要實現我們雄心勃勃的可持續發展目標，還有很多工作要做，包括到 2030 年將我們的溫室氣體排放量減少 35%。

Turning to financial performance. Linde once again led the industry across key metrics, 25.9% ROC EBIT margins increased 190 basis points to 29.5%, EPS, increasing 10% XFS and $7 billion of capital return to shareholders from the significant excess free cash flow. These are the best metrics in the industry. So by a wide margin, this provides us with a source of pride and ownership. But we also recognize this is the box valuations are derived from a combination of past performance and future expectations.

談到財務表現。林德再次在多項關鍵指標上領先行業，ROC EBIT 利潤率為 25.9%，增加了 190 個基點，達到 29.5%，EPS 增加了 10%，並且從大量超額自由現金流中為股東帶來了 70 億美元的資本回報。這些是業界最好的指標。因此，這在很大程度上為我們帶來了自豪感和主人翁精神。但我們也意​​識到，這種估值是基於過去的表現和未來的預期而得出的。

So we must continuously position ourselves for future growth regardless of the macro economic conditions, positioning for future styles with a concise strategy and a capital allocation policy at Linde, we know that investments we make and the ones we avoid are equally important because mistakes in this industry can have long lasting consequences is why sticking to our core business while maintaining disciplined contract terms is critical to building safe, reliable and profitable supply infrastructure. The year ended with more than $10 billion in backlog, including a record sale of gas backlog of $7 billion. Included in this is a two plus billion dollar rate in Canada, which is a great example of a high quality project in our core geographies.

因此，無論宏觀經濟條件如何，我們都必須不斷地為未來的成長做好準備，以簡明的戰略和資本配置政策為林德的未來風格做好準備，我們知道我們所做的投資和我們避免的投資同樣重要，因為這個行業的錯誤可能會產生長期的影響，這就是為什麼堅持我們的核心業務同時保持嚴格的合約條款對於建立安全、可靠和有利可圖的供應當年的訂單積壓量超過 100 億美元，其中包括創紀錄的 70 億美元的天然氣銷售積壓量。其中包括在加拿大的20多億美元投資，這是我們核心地區高品質計畫的典範。

This project not only has fixed payment structure with predictable returns, but materially improves our local supply density in a fast growing region for clean energy, I fully expect to be announcing new projects and customers in the near future for drilling in industrial gases in more than just mega projects. We have to continue keeping our eye on smaller opportunities as well, ensuring that they add attractive annuity-like growth. During 2024, we once again set a record for small on-site visits, signing 59 long-term agreements or a total of 64 plants, all of which will increase reliability and strengthen our network density.

該項目不僅具有固定的付款結構和可預測的回報，而且大大提高了我們在清潔能源快速增長地區的本地供應密度，我完全期待在不久的將來宣布新的項目和客戶，而不僅僅是大型項目的工業氣體鑽探。我們也必須繼續關注較小的機會，確保它們能帶來類似年金的吸引力成長。2024 年，我們再次創下了小型現場訪問的記錄，簽署了 59 項長期協議，總共 64 家工廠，所有這些都將提高可靠性並加強我們的網路密度。

Acquisitions of small tuck-in packaged gas opportunities also remain an important part of synergize growth with 18 signed transactions with annualized revenues of approximately EUR200 million. All in 2024 was another successful year despite the many challenges. That being said, it's time to move forward and look ahead, all of you have seen the new earnings guidance for 2025.

收購小型包裝氣體機會也是協同成長的重要組成部分，已簽署 18 筆交易，年收入約 2 億歐元。儘管面臨諸多挑戰，但 2024 年仍然是另一個成功的一年。話雖如此，現在是時候向前邁進並展望未來了，大家都已經看到了 2025 年的新獲利指引。

And therefore, I believe it's important to reiterate the components of our long-standing EPS growth algorithm. On slide 4 for many years now, we've defined our EPS growth into three categories, of which both capital allocation and management actions are within our control and the economy is not capital allocation. Representatives contributions from a long-standing and stable capital management policy. The main elements include our contractual project backlog, share repurchases, small bolt-on acquisitions and capital structure efficiencies generally achieved through interest and tax management.

因此，我認為重申我們長期的每股盈餘成長演算法的組成部分非常重要。多年來，在投影片 4 上，我們將每股盈餘成長定義為三類，其中資本配置和管理行動都在我們的控制範圍內，而經濟不是資本配置。代表長期穩定的資本管理政策的貢獻。主要因素包括我們的合約項目積壓、股票回購、小型附加收購以及通常透過利息和稅務管理實現的資本結構效率。

It's important to note that our backlog definition is unique in our industry. It only includes incremental growth from contractually committed customers with fixed payment elements and termination provisions to ensure a minimum return on capital. While no other company follows a strict interpretation, it certainly provides the greatest certainty of backlog, EPS contribution in any environment. Similarly, the majority of acquisitions are justified on cost synergies owned and therefore provide a high degree of confidence on capital return and thus EPS generation.

值得注意的是，我們的積壓定義在我們的產業中是獨一無二的。它僅包括來自合約承諾客戶的增量成長，具有固定的付款要素和終止條款，以確保最低的資本回報。雖然沒有其他公司遵循嚴格的解釋，但它無疑在任何環境下提供了最大的積壓訂單和每股盈餘貢獻的確定性。同樣，大多數收購都是基於成本協同效應而進行的，因此對資本回報和每股盈餘的產生具有高度的信心。

Finally, share repurchases are an attractive and flexible use of excess free cash flow as project startup, the highly consistent EPS contribution from overall capital allocation. All of these elements have historically contributed 4% to 6% EPS growth. And I feel confident this will continue for the years to come. Management actions represent daily self-help initiatives, our employees, and to take to ensure growth regardless of the macro climate, digital solutions and AIR. increasingly supporting productivity, price and cost management, which are controllable initiatives deeply embedded into our culture and operating rhythm at which allow us to grow earnings regardless of the economy. History has proven for these to be the largest compound value generators as they are not directly correlated to overall economic activity. This combination of capital allocation and management actions is expected to deliver 10 plus percent EPS growth each year with margin expansion and 2025 is no exception for the pre or post merger. These two components have been the dominant drivers of our long-term double-digit EPS growth capital.

最後，股票回購是專案啟動時對過剩自由現金流的一種有吸引力且靈活的使用方式，其對整體資本配置的每股盈餘貢獻高度一致。從歷史上看，所有這些因素都貢獻了 4% 至 6% 的每股盈餘成長。我相信，未來幾年這種狀況還會持續下去。管理行動代表日常自助措施、我們的員工以及採取措施確保無論宏觀氣候、數位解決方案和 AIR 如何都能成長。越來越多地支持生產力、價格和成本管理，這些都是可控的舉措，深深植根於我們的文化和營運節奏中，無論經濟如何，都使我們能夠增加收益。歷史證明，它們是最大的複合價值創造者，因為它們與整體經濟活動沒有直接關係。這種資本配置和管理行動的組合預計每年將帶來 10% 以上的每股盈餘成長和利潤率的擴大，無論是合併前還是合併後，2025 年也不例外。這兩個因素一直是我們長期兩位數每股盈餘成長資本的主要驅動力。

While I remain confident in our ability to deliver on this 10%, we are constantly striving to find more opportunities to improve. Conversely, we cannot control the third category, which represents macro economic factors for Linde. These are two factors that matter. The most foreign exchange rates and industrial production as a proxy of base volume trends. Recall that we are a US dollar functional company with approximately two thirds of earnings denominated in foreign currencies and thus exposed to FX translation. Similarly, while our customers are off another long-term contracts with fixed facility fees, the incremental gas they consume is a function of their own production rates, which typically highly correlates to industrial demand. Hence why global IP is a generic proxy for our customer gas consumption of base volumes. The current 2025 guidance range assumes a 4% FX translation headwind for the midpoint of the range assumes 0% IP growth environment.

儘管我對我們實現這 10% 的能力充滿信心，但我們仍在不斷努力尋找更多改進的機會。相反，我們無法控制第三類，代表了林德的宏觀經濟因素。這是兩個重要的因素。大多數外匯匯率和工業生產都以基準量趨勢為代表。回想一下，我們是一家美元功能性公司，約三分之二的收益以外幣計價，因此受到外匯折算的影響。同樣，雖然我們的客戶不再簽訂另一份具有固定設施費用的長期合同，但他們消耗的增量天然氣取決於他們自己的生產率，而這通常與工業需求高度相關。因此，全球 IP 是我們客戶基本天然氣消耗量的通用代理。目前的 2025 年指引範圍假設外匯翻譯逆風為 4%，範圍中點假設 IP 成長環境為 0%。

Overall, it's clear the growth algorithm is well intact. But we have our work cut out regarding unfavorable FX translation since that time as a surprise, as you may recall from our statements last quarter and subsequent self-help actions that we initiated. Furthermore, we will continue to identify and execute additional management actions to mitigate macro weakness. Eventually these economic headwinds that will convert to tailwinds as we always do, and until then, you can be rest assured entirely. The organization will be focused on creating shareholder value and maintaining a long-term industry leadership no matter the environment.

整體而言，很明顯成長演算法是完好的。但出乎意料的是，從那時起，我們在應對不利的外匯翻譯方面就已做好了準備，正如您可能還記得我們上個季度的聲明以及我們隨後發起的自救行動一樣。此外，我們將繼續確定並執行額外的管理措施來緩解宏觀疲軟。最終，這些經濟逆風將會像往常一樣轉變為順風，在此之前，大家可以完全放心。無論環境如何，該組織都將專注於創造股東價值並保持長期行業領導地位。

I'll turn the call over to Matt to walk through our financial results.

我將把電話轉給馬特來介紹我們的財務表現。

Thanks, Sanjiv. Fourth quarter results can be found on Slide 5 sales of $8.2 billion are flat to prior year, down 1% sequentially for both the prior year and sequential comparisons. Foreign currency translation was a 2% headwind excluding FX and cost pass-through, underlying sales grew 2% versus last year and were flat from the third quarter. Price increases of 2% over 2023, 1% sequentially, continued to track with globally weighted inflation. Volume growth was flat as contribution from the project backlog for the Americas and Asia-Pac offset lower base volumes and demand.

謝謝，Sanjiv。第四季的業績可以在投影片 5 上看到，銷售額為 82 億美元，與去年持平，與去年和上一季相比均下降 1%。不包括外匯和成本轉嫁，外幣折算帶來 2% 的不利影響，基礎銷售額較去年同期成長 2%，與第三季持平。2023 年價格上漲 2%，季增 1%，繼續與全球加權通膨保持一致。由於美洲和亞太地區的專案積壓貢獻抵消了基礎銷售和需求的下降，銷售成長持平。

The sequential volume decline is primarily attributed to softer Amir metals and mining volumes and seasonality factors in a bag in general economic trends mostly followed our prior guidance, although the FX impact was worse than expected from a significant strengthening of the USD toward the back half of the fourth quarter, operating profit of $2.5 billion grew 9% and resulted in a 29.9% margin, primarily from management actions around price cost and productivity. EPS $3.97 grew 11% or 13% excluding FX. The 9% CapEx increase is entirely driven by contractual projects as base CapEx decreased from a combination of currency productivity and lower base volumes. I anticipate this trend to continue as we execute on the record $7 billion sale of Gas backlog to support future growth.

銷售環比下降主要歸因於阿米爾金屬和採礦量走軟以及季節性因素，總體經濟趨勢基本上遵循了我們之前的預期，儘管由於第四季度後半段美元大幅走強，外匯影響比預期更差，但 25 億美元的營業利潤增長了 9%，利潤率達到 29.9%，這主要得益於圍繞價格和生產率的管理價格。每股盈餘 3.97 美元，成長 11%，若不包括外匯則成長 13%。9% 的資本支出成長完全是由合約項目推動的，因為基礎資本支出因貨幣生產力和基礎產量較低而下降。我預計這一趨勢將會持續下去，因為我們將以創紀錄的 70 億美元出售天然氣積壓訂單以支持未來的成長。

Further details on capital management can be found on Slide 6. Full year operating cash flow ended at $98.4 billion with almost 60% accuracy in the second half. As mentioned in prior calls, I expect this split to remain due to seasonality of specific cash outflows, including incentive payments, taxes and interest. The pie chart on the right shows the full year capital allocation. We invested $5 million back into the business with half underpinned by secured high quality growth opportunities. And we returned $7 billion to shareholders in the form of dividends and stock repurchases. Retreat in this amount of capital to our owners year after year requires a disciplined capital allocation policy and a very healthy balance sheet two things that are much easier said than done. I'll wrap up with guidance on Slide 7.

有關資本管理的更多詳細資訊請參閱幻燈片 6。全年營運現金流為 984 億美元，下半年準確率接近 60%。正如在先前的電話會議中所提到的，我預計這種分成比例將保持不變，因為特定現金流出（包括獎勵性支付、稅金和利息）具有季節性。右側圓餅圖顯示的是全年資本配置。我們向該業務重新投資了 500 萬美元，其中一半是由有保障的高品質成長機會支撐的。我們以股息和股票回購的形式向股東返還了 70 億美元。年復一年地向我們的所有者返還如此多的資本需要嚴格的資本配置政策和非常健康的資產負債表，這兩件事說起來容易做起來難。我將在第 7 張投影片中總結指導。

For initiating full year EPS guidance of $16.15 to $16.55, representing a 4% to 7% growth or 8% to 11% when excluding an estimated 4% currency headwind. As mentioned earlier, the 4% impact from the accounting translation of foreign earnings, which experienced a rapid strengthening of USD toward the end of 2024. Recall, this is merely a projection as we're required to book the actual month average rate to the income statement methodology used for this estimate is consistent with prior practice by using the forward curves on a weighted basis for each foreign currency at the start of the month.

預計全年每股收益為 16.15 美元至 16.55 美元，增長 4% 至 7%，若排除預計 4% 的貨幣逆風，則增長 8% 至 11%。如前所述，外國收益的會計翻譯產生了 4% 的影響，因為到 2024 年底美元迅速走強。回想一下，這只是一個預測，因為我們需要將實際的月平均匯率記入損益表中，而用於此估算的方法與以前的做法一致，即在月初使用每種外幣的加權遠期曲線。

Historically large currency devaluations have often been followed by periods of more significant local inflation with 2024 to be in a recent example is centers and anticipate incremental pricing opportunities to recover the currency devaluation impact. These potential pricing opportunities are not baked into the guidance range at this time since the amount or timing of subsequent inflation is difficult to estimate dynamic and from the current environment and best assumes flat base volumes.

從歷史上看，在大幅貨幣貶值之後，往往會出現更嚴重的局部通膨時期，2024 年就是最近的一個例子，中心預計會出現增量定價機會來收回貨幣貶值的影響。這些潛在的定價機會目前尚未納入指導範圍，因為後續通膨的量或時間很難從當前環境下動態估計，最好假設基數持平。

As Sanjiv mentioned, our base volumes derive customer supply contracts. Their growth is a function of gas consumption from our contracted tanks and cylinders, hence why local industrial production tends to be the best proxy. First quarter EPS guidance range is $3.85 to $3.95, with similar assumptions to the full year. At this time, we believe it's appropriate to remain prudent with a more cautious economic outlook if things turn out better. So too, will our results in this they worsen will take additional mitigating actions regardless of the economy. I'm confident lending will continue to create shareholder value through our time-tested execution culture, disciplined capital allocation and proven management actions. This has been embedded in our DNA for decades and over the years.

正如 Sanjiv 所提到的，我們的基本產量源自於客戶供應合約。它們的成長取決於我們承包的儲槽和氣瓶的天然氣消耗量，因此當地工業生產往往是最好的代表。第一季每股收益預期範圍為 3.85 美元至 3.95 美元，與全年預期類似。目前，我們認為，如果情況好轉，保持謹慎並採取更謹慎的經濟前景是適當的。同樣，無論經濟狀況如何，我們的結果都會惡化，我們需要採取額外的緩解措施。我相信，透過我們久經考驗的執行文化、嚴格的資本配置和行之有效的管理行動，貸款將繼續為股東創造價值。幾十年來，這種觀念已經深深植根於我們的 DNA 中。

While many have claimed builds simply copy, this model all have failed because here it Lindy, we're often imitated, but never duplicated. I'll now turn the call over to Q&A.

儘管許多人聲稱構建只是簡單的複製，但這種模型都失敗了，因為這裡是 Lindy，我們經常被模仿，但從未被複製。我現在將電話轉入問答環節。

And I will now begin the question and answer session.

現在我將開始問答環節。

(Operator instructions)

（操作員指令）

And your first question comes from the line of Michael Leithead, Barclays.

您的第一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的邁克爾·萊特黑德 (Michael Leithead)。

There's a lot of political noise out there right now between tariff potential, new administration, some pullback on green energy funding. How has your discussions with potential project partners evolved at all really trying to get at, say, projects that are pre-FID today, have those discussions slowdown or picked up at all?

目前，關稅潛力、新政府、綠色能源資金撤回等政治噪音很多。您與潛在專案合作夥伴的討論進度如何？

So Mike, as we have referenced in previous calls, we have seen the will take a little bit more time and apply a bit more rigor before going to FID. I think it's a good thing because you do need that when you're doing multibillion-dollar projects to vacate. And I think we're seeing that fee is continuing in their bills and there obviously is some uncertainty around the regulatory framework and requirements in terms of what the new administration may or may not do.

因此，麥克，正如我們在之前的電話會議中提到的那樣，我們看到在進行 FID 之前需要花費更多的時間並採取更嚴格的措施。我認為這是一件好事，因為當你進行價值數十億美元的專案時，你確實需要這樣做。我認為我們看到他們的帳單中仍然包含這項費用，就新政府可能會做什麼或不會做什麼而言，監管框架和要求顯然存在一些不確定性。

So one thing I do want to emphasize, though, and I think in the context of clean hydrogen, this is particularly important. People tend to think about the IRA and there's a lot of talk around what happens to the area of new administration within the IRA. There is a specific provision and IRS provision in fact, both 45Q, which predates the IRA. It actually goes back to around 2008 when it was implemented and above 90% of the projects that we are developing in the US, we are actually looking at 45Q. as a potential incentive. And I think we feel fairly confident that that structure around the 45Q. will remain as given particularly that it predates the IRS. I just want to provide that specific clarification because I get a lot of questions around that.

因此，我確實想強調一件事，我認為在清潔氫的背景下，這一點尤其重要。人們傾向於思考愛爾蘭共和軍 (IRA)，並且有很多關於愛爾蘭共和軍內部新管理領域將會發生什麼的討論。事實上，有一個具體的條款和 IRS 條款，都是 45Q，其時間早於 IRA。它實際上可以追溯到 2008 年左右，當時它就已實施，我們在美國開發的 90% 以上的項目實際上都在考慮 45Q。作為潛在的激勵。我認為我們對 45Q 周圍的結構非常有信心。將保持既定狀態，特別是因為它早於美國國稅局 (IRS)。我只是想提供具體的澄清，因為我對此有很多疑問。

But generally, we were seeing people take a bit more time to get to FID. And we are seeing that they are actually being a little bit more rigorous in their approach before they make a final call in terms of putting capital on the ground.

但總體而言，我們發現人們需要花費更多時間才能實現 FID。我們看到，在最終決定將資本投入實地之前，他們實際上採取了更嚴謹的方法。

The other point, I'd just quickly add to that, Mike, as you're aware that in the past, we've talked about in all, I think it was actually two years ago, we talked about $8 billion to 10 billion in in clean energy investments from a lending perspective. We're about halfway there, given the two projects, large projects we've already announced North America, they're obviously continue to develop projects elsewhere. Those two garden projects, we're working on a boat likely to see another phase which likely means that we'll see equivalent investment there plus the other projects as well. So when I look at the overall pipeline, I feel pretty good about the quality of projects that we're pursuing and the box to go getting to that $8 billion to 10 billion of investments over the next few years looks pretty much intact.

另一點，麥克，我想快速補充一下，正如你所知，過去我們總共討論過，我想實際上是在兩年前，我們從貸款角度討論過 80 億至 100 億美元的清潔能源投資。我們已經完成了一半，考慮到我們已經在北美宣布的兩個大型項目，他們顯然會繼續在其他地方開發項目。這兩個花園項目，我們正在建造的一艘船可能會進入另一個階段，這可能意味著我們將在那裡看到同等的投資以及其他項目。因此，當我審視整體專案流程時，我對我們正在進行的專案的品質感到非常滿意，而且未來幾年實現 80 億至 100 億美元投資的目標看起來基本上完好無損。

And your next question comes from the line of Steven Harr, Morgan Stanley.

您的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的史蒂文哈爾。

So it kind of looks like exiting your margins are now like 200 basis points ahead of America's maybe 100 times the cost pass through. So do you think your Americas margins will gain ground and 25? And that also has a second piece of that. So I think the gap is kind of winding versus a packer. I was wondering if you could also kind of frame the opportunity there.

因此看起來，你們的利潤率現在比美國的成本轉嫁高出 200 個基點，可能是 100 倍。那麼，您認為您在美洲的利潤率將會提高嗎？這還有第二部分。因此，我認為與包裝者相比，差距有點太大了。我想知道您是否也可以在那裡建立這樣的機會。

And so if you go back historically at all, but five years ago, many of you asked the same question when Americas margins were leading and I think a back and in mail were at 17% and 19%. And we had said Juan and I want to repeat again today that they're getting our business, our Genius and there is no impediment to getting to the highest margin to see anywhere in our business. The one thing often point out when we have this conversation on margins of each one of our segments as a country or a business that has a margin with a full number in front of it.

因此，如果回顧歷史，五年前，你們中的許多人都問過同樣的問題，當時美國的利潤率領先，我認為郵件往來率為 17％ 和 19％。我們已經說過了，胡安，我今天想再重複一遍，他們正在獲得我們的業務，我們的天才，並且​​沒有任何障礙阻礙我們在我們的業務中獲得最高利潤。當我們討論每個細分市場的利潤率時，我們經常指出的一件事是，一個國家或一個企業的利潤率前面都有一個完整的數字。

And in many ways, we encourage our businesses, each of the segments to push and trying to understand what those successful businesses with a 40 plus percent margins are doing to ensure that we can bridge the gap. So to answer your question, both for AmeriGas and APAC, my expectation remains that margins will continue to improve. And again, we've said in our prepared remarks earlier on you should expect to see margin expansion in 2025 for Linde PLC overall, which obviously is an aggregation of the different segments.

我們透過多種方式鼓勵各個細分市場的企業努力，並試圖了解那些利潤率超過 40% 的成功企業正在做什麼，以確保我們能夠縮小差距。因此，回答您的問題，對於 AmeriGas 和 APAC，我仍然預計利潤率將繼續提高。而且，我們之前在準備好的評論中已經說過，您應該預計到 2025 年林德集團 (Linde PLC) 的整體利潤率將會擴大，這顯然是不同部門的總和。

I'd say to you that I'd probably say that that margin expansion range is between 20 basic points to 50 basis points. Typically, that's what we expect longer term. Obviously, we've been delivered to the rig well in excess of that, and that's obviously set up some expectations, but expect margin expansion. Each of those segments will continue to grow margin, no impediment to APAC bridging that gap. And of course, America's got a solid business which will continue to expand the margin as well.

我想說的是，利潤率擴大幅度可能在 20 個基點至 50 個基點之間。通常，這正是我們的長期預期。顯然，我們交付給鑽機的數量已經遠遠超過了這個數字，這顯然設定了一些預期，但預計利潤率將擴大。每個細分市場的利潤率都將持續成長，但這並不妨礙亞太地區彌補這一差距。當然，美國擁有穩固的業務，這也將繼續擴大利潤。

And your next question comes from the line of Duffy Fischer, Goldman Sachs.

您的下一個問題來自高盛的達菲費雪。

You talk about IP being your biggest KPI., which is fair, roughly, what is the leverage if IP is up or down 1%, how much EPS does that generally drive for you? And then if you would maybe just take a spin around the world, what are you seeing IP. new guiding flat is proof and but where do you see potential for things to be better or worse than that? A little bit about IP correlation of and I'll give you a walk around the world.

您說 IP 是您最大的 KPI。那麼，如果您環遊世界一圈，您會看到什麼 IP？新的指導平台就是證明，但是您認為哪些方面的情況可能會比這更好或更糟呢？稍微了解 IP 相關性，我會帶你環遊世界。

So to start, as you probably know, we said we split our volumes and to project and base and our project volumes sold track our startup. So that is completely independent of any IP or macroeconomic factor and it's purely contractual based on the fifth element. So that one as part of the capital, our allocation contribution of the EPS algorithm. But to your point, when you think about base volumes, as Sanjiv mentioned, we have the rental which affects regardless that gets back to the resiliency of our model. As you recall, about 65% of our revenues are fairly resilient, but of the molecule that they take either in the cylinder our way, either in the tank for liquid and to some extent over fixed fees and the pipe, that's just going to be a function of their production.

因此，首先，正如您可能知道的，我們說過，我們將我們的業務量分為專案和基礎，並且我們銷售的專案量追蹤我們的新創公司。因此，它完全獨立於任何智慧財產權或宏觀經濟因素，並且純粹基於第五要素的合約。因此，作為資本的一部分，我們對 EPS 演算法的分配貢獻。但對於你的觀點，當你考慮基礎數量時，正如 Sanjiv 所提到的那樣，我們有租金，無論這是否會影響我們模型的彈性。大家還記得，我們​​約 65% 的收入具有相當強的彈性，但是他們所採用的分子要么在我們的氣缸中，要么在液體罐中，並且在某種程度上超過固定費用和管道，這只是他們生產的一個函數。

So from that tends to best proxy to IP and so I would say within the base volume piece, it aligns now to your point, we tend to get higher IP leverage in developing country. Trees are where they are expanding more of what you look at as intensity of gas per capita, whereas in more developed nations, it's closer to one to one ratio. You tend to see on the IP and the base volume tracked. So that's how I would think about that when you look around the world, I think we can all agree that have some countries report Ip is not equal at all countries.

因此從這方面來看，IP 往往是最佳代理，因此我想說，在基礎量部分，它現在與您的觀點一致，我們傾向於在發展中國家獲得更高的 IP 槓桿率。樹木是擴大人均氣體強度的地方，而在較發達國家，這一比例更接近一比一。您傾向於看到 IP 和基本卷被追蹤。所以這就是我的想法，當你環顧世界時，我想我們都同意，有些國家報告 IP 在所有國家並不平等。

But when we adjust for what we feel are a little bit of some noise in the numbers, what we've been seen as IP close to zero, maybe tens of bps globally weighted in our businesses, some of what it's been arranging, but some will have to see how it plays out going forward. I think I may add a drag. As you know, Americas has been pretty solid and I think China dependent upon which number you actually want to use it can range anywhere from close to zero to the official number of 5%. And that's how I would kind of see the IPO, but I'll hit up SIG.Maybe can give you a little walk around the world, just with general color on trends.

但是，當我們調整數字中的一些噪音時，我們發現 IP 接近零，在我們的業務中全球加權可能只有幾十個基點，有些已經安排好了，但有些則必須看看它未來會如何發展。我想我可能會增加阻力。如你所知，美洲一直非常穩固，而我認為中國的情況則取決於你實際想要使用哪個數字，其範圍可以從接近零到官方數字 5%。這就是我對 IPO 的看法，但我會聯絡 SIG。

So that's helpful. And just on the ground and you on how IP plays into our equation, but also how we think about it.

這很有幫助。並且，我們在實地向您介紹 IP 如何在我們的方程式中發揮作用，以及我們如何看待它。

Let me just walk you through the world-leading is a question. I'm sure it's on many people's minds number. If I break that down and powered by by two different perspectives, I'll start off with the markets that we have the end markets and use that as a guide for its stake to kind of define what we're expecting and then talk about different geographies as well. So starting off with resilient and more markets by their very nature, you expect them to grow. And therefore, we expect low to mid single-digit growth in our resilient end markets, driven primarily by electronics and food and beverage. Industrial sector, obviously, most cyclical impacted by the industrial activity and demand. We do expect lower volumes there versus last, we expect flat low volumes, particularly in metals and chemicals.

讓我帶您了解一下世界領先的問題。我確信這是許多人心中的數字。如果我將其分解並從兩個不同的角度來分析，我將從我們擁有的終端市場開始，並以此作為其份額的指導，以定義我們的期望，然後再討論不同的地理位置。因此，從本質上具有彈性且更多的市場開始，你會期望它們會成長。因此，我們預計，我們富有彈性的終端市場將實現低至中等個位數的成長，主要受電子產品、食品和飲料的推動。顯然，工業部門受工業活動和需求的周期性影響最大。我們確實預計那裡的銷量會比上次低，我們預計銷量將持平，特別是金屬和化學品。

If I now think deal perspective and talk about geographies, and I'm going to start off with maybe the Americas, our expectation, low-single-digit growth in the Americas in all across the related end markets. The industrial sector also expected to be kind of flattish against what we see last year. I will specifically talk about the USD and the US. I'd say to our current view remains, and I've said this before, right, U.S. volumes and sales at a high watermark, our expectation remains that the first half of the year likely to be flattish.

如果我現在從交易角度考慮並談論地域，我可能會從美洲開始，我們預計美洲所有相關終端市場都將實現低個位數成長。預計工業部門的表現也將與去年同期相比持平。我具體講一下美元和美國。我想說，我們目前的觀點仍然是，我之前就說過，美國的銷售量處於高位，我們預計今年上半年可能會持平。

That's what we're hearing from our customers towards the back end of the year, the second half for sure, we are expecting increased momentum across the US and we will see that play through in how we see the Americas volumes and and growth activity come true. On the other hand, a bit of a contrast, unfortunately, in Europe, we expect to see continued softening. This is primarily invest in Europe, also a little bit in Eastern Europe, but primarily invest in Europe. The resilient end markets will continue to grow there is a good trajectory there and we'll expect that.

這就是我們從客戶那裡聽到的，在年底，肯定是下半年，我們預計美國的成長勢頭將增強，我們將從美洲的銷售和成長活動如何實現中看到這一點。另一方面，不幸的是，與此形成鮮明對比的是，我們預期歐洲經濟將繼續走軟。這主要投資於歐洲，也有少量投資東歐，但主要投資於歐洲。有彈性的終端市場將繼續成長，並有一個良好的發展軌跡，我們對此充滿期待。

But metals, manufacturing, chemicals, energy all expected to be softer in lower volumes versus previous year. So Europe unfortunately is a drag at the moment. Now as far as Asia Pacific as concern outside of China, because that's on a number of your minds and I was in China two weeks ago, I spent a week with the team talking to our customers, meeting a number of CEOs and getting a flavor of what I think is going to happen in China. And I think my short summary is, from our perspective, we don't expect anything significant in China in 2025.

但金屬、製造業、化學品和能源等產業的銷售量預計均較上年同期下降。不幸的是，歐洲目前是拖累因素。現在就中國以外的亞太地區而言，因為這是你們很多人都關心的問題，而且我兩週前在中國，花了一個星期與團隊交談，會見了一些首席執行官，並了解了我認為在中國將會發生的事情。我的簡短總結是，從我們的角度來看，我們預計 2025 年中國不會發生任何重大事件。

We're not baking in any kind of recovery. I think industrial volumes and activity will remain stable. But flat, no recovery in any of those sectors, metals and mining specifically, it's likely to be negative year on year for a number of reasons driven partly by demand, but equally by some large turnarounds that customers are taking in the cost deal. So we're going to see that play in Q1 and Q2. But again, metals and mining unlikely to see any growth to one sector in China that is growing day and we'll continue to grow is their electronics sector, a lot of energy and a lot of money has been put into that sector by the government as well.

我們並未預期任何形式的復甦。我認為工業產量和活動將保持穩定。但這些產業，特別是金屬和採礦業，都沒有復甦，年比可能會出現負成長，原因有很多，部分原因是需求，但同樣也是因為客戶在成本交易中接受的一些重大轉變。因此我們將在 Q1 和 Q2 中看到這一表現。但是，金屬和採礦業不太可能在中國看到任何成長，而中國正在成長的一個產業是電子產業，我們將繼續成長，政府也向該產業投入了大量的精力和資金。

So we do expect that that will play out and continue to see some level of growth. If I was looking at China, both broadly, I'd say to you to trends of particular note coming out of my business for us that the government has recognized the need for support. If it's got to get to the personal private consumption and the property market to pick up, it's set a lot of things not in US stimulus has gone into the market. So we haven't seen any improvements other than the fact that the last quarter you saw a bit of improvement from industrial activity for exports.

因此，我們確實預計這一情況將會實現並繼續看到一定程度的成長。如果我從廣義上看待中國，我會告訴你，從我的業務中可以看出一個特別值得注意的趨勢，即政府已經認識到支持的必要性。如果要讓個人私人消費和房地產市場回暖，就需要許多美國刺激計畫沒有註入的資金才能進入市場。因此，除了上個季度工業出口活動略有改善之外，我們沒有看到任何改善。

But we haven't really seen private consumption pickup happen. They're all in all kinds of subsidies in place that they're putting out there is small, but hopefully they will have an impact over a period time. And so I'd say to you, I wouldn't hold my breath for 2025 in terms of improvement. But beyond that longer term, certainly we will see the China market stabilize and probably grow at a small phase of a used to. But certainly we will expect to see growth come back. The rest of Asia Pacific is largely flat versus previous year, except for India, which is obviously the growth story at the moment.

但我們還沒有真正看到私人消費回升。他們提供的各種補貼雖然數量很小，但希望它們能在一段時間內產生影響。因此我要告訴你，我不會對 2025 年的進步抱太大希望。但從長遠來看，我們肯定會看到中國市場趨於穩定，並且可能像過去一樣保持小幅成長。但我們肯定會期待看到成長回升。亞太地區其他地區與上年相比基本持平，只有印度除外，而印度目前顯然是成長熱點。

And given our strong presence in India, we are making the most of it was more than our fair share feel really good about where that's going as kind of a view around what we see across the world and expect in 2010.

鑑於我們在印度的強大影響力，我們充分利用了這一優勢，對於 2010 年全球局勢和預期，我們感到非常滿意。

And your next question comes from the line of David Begleiter, Deutsche Bank.

您的下一個問題來自德意志銀行的 David Begleiter。

What are your concerns, if any of the pack filling the playbook will be now employed products, given the recent management change would that be a negative cooling the shift away from focusing too much on mega projects world could that change resulting even more more rational industry pricing environment.

您擔心的是什麼？

If I didn't get their question entirely, but I'm going to answer it anyway. Linde has a leadership position in the market because of a number of factors. I said in my prepared remarks, you cannot replicate and adding back, but it really nicely. You can drive Gabi, but it never never really duplicate what leaves developed over over many decades. And that's built into our operating rhythm that's built into our performance culture.

如果我沒有完全理解他們的問題，我無論如何都會回答。林德因多種因素而在市場上佔據領導地位。我在準備好的發言中說過，你不能複製和添加回去，但這真的很好。你可以駕駛 Gabi，但它永遠無法真正複製數十年來發展的一切。這已經融入我們的營運節奏和績效文化之中。

And more importantly, it is built into the networks that we have developed across the world where because of the network density we have, we're able to get the margin improvement that we see it alters your with the customer and have a pricing power we have that was demonstrated in the margin expansion that you have consistently seen over the last five years. We will continue to work on that. What others will or won't work on really the question you will need to address them. But I think Linde is the market leader as we reflect that in the behaviors we put out there in the marketplace consistently.

更重要的是，它融入了我們在世界各地開發的網路中，由於我們擁有的網路密度，我們能夠獲得利潤率的提高，我們看到它改變了您與客戶的關係，並擁有定價權，這在過去五年中您一直看到的利潤率擴大中得到了證明。我們將繼續努力。其他人會做什麼或不會做什麼，這確實是你需要解決的問題。但我認為林德是市場領導者，因為我們在市場上一貫採取的行為反映了這一點。

Your next question comes from the line of Ross Sandler, BNP Paribas.

您的下一個問題來自法國巴黎銀行的羅斯桑德勒 (Ross Sandler)。

And Got a question on healthcare where I think you've been around 0% organic growth every quarter in 2024. I was wondering if you could talk about what you've seen on price versus volume than it does any specific area that is preventing a big headwind, as you can expand into what to watch you're thinking for 2024 sites for this one?

我有一個關於醫療保健的問題，我認為到 2024 年，每個季度的有機成長率都將在 0% 左右。我想知道您是否可以談談您在價格與數量方面看到的情況，而不是任何可以阻止巨大阻力的特定領域，因為您可以擴展到您對 2024 年網站的關注點嗎？

You've heard me say this before that in the healthcare space, we expect long-term kind of mid single digit growth and that's what we would expect. Now you build the healthcare sector is made up of two subsegments, if you like, the hospital care business, which is growing reasonably well and well on its way. And then obviously the whole gave us around the world, which tends to be moving forward as well.

您可能之前聽我說過，在醫療保健領域，我們預計長期內將實現中等個位數的成長，這正是我們所期望的。現在，您可以看到醫療保健行業由兩個子部分組成，如果您願意的話，就是醫院護理業務，該業務正在相當好地發展。顯然，整個世界都為我們帶來了進步，而這種進步也正在向前發展。

Now we have as you're aware in from past calls, we have said that we were doing some portfolio rationalization in our home care business, how the US and in many ways, what the numbers you're seeing at the moment are reflecting some of that rationalization that has been done in that Linde business that is moving forward.

正如您從過去的電話會議中了解到的那樣，我們說過，我們正在對家庭護理業務進行一些投資組合合理化，美國的情況以及在很多方面，您目前看到的數字都反映了林德業務正在推進的一些合理化舉措。

Well, as you know, the homecare business, in particular, given the inflationary environment that we see has to work really hard and productivity efforts, I'm happy to see that in idling care, we are really seeing that progress being made. So it's looking pretty robust and resilient things done at some stable last, these portfolio actions that you would see the long-term kind of mid-single low to mid-single digit growth that we would expect from healthcare overall.

嗯，如你所知，特別是家庭護理業務，考慮到我們看到的通膨環境，必須非常努力地提高生產力，我很高興看到在閒置護理方面，我們確實看到了進展。因此，這些投資組合的行動看起來相當穩健和有彈性，最終會穩定下來，您將看到我們預期醫療保健整體將出現長期的中個低位到中個位數的增長。

And second, it is sort of lead on the project side you talked mostly about decarbonization related projects that could be signed in the future. You didn't mention Electronic Systems specific reasons for that.I don't think we've seen significant new assigned using electronics on your side with the next couple of years. And is an area where we should be remixing new projects.

其次，在專案方面，您主要談到了未來可能簽署的脫碳相關專案。您沒有提到電子系統的具體原因。這是我們應該重新混合新專案的領域。

I'm only tell you that 20% of my all-time record sales of our backlog is electronics. We are executing on the electronics projects as we speak, and I'm more than happy to tell you that we'll be announcing new wins very shortly as well. So I'm not sure whether that question really address the specific point. But I think a really good about electronics and our specific position in there. In fact, we took our Board recently to the to our Phoenix facility with Cell CSMC., which you know has been a very successful project for TSMC. So feel really good about executing a number of projects as we speak. There are starting up and providing impact and we continue to win more than our fair share.

我只是告訴你，我們積壓產品的最高銷售量中有 20% 是電子產品。我們正在執行電子項目，我很高興地告訴你們，我們很快就會宣布新的勝利。所以我不確定這個問題是否真的解決了具體問題。但我認為電子產品和我們在其中的具體地位確實很好。事實上，我們最近與 Cell CSMC 合作將我們的主機板帶到了鳳凰城工廠，這對台積電來說是一個非常成功的項目。因此，正如我們所說，對於執行一些專案感到非常高興。我們已經開始行動並產生影響，並將繼續贏得超過我們應得的份額。

Your next question comes from the line of Jeff Zekauskas, JPMorgan.

您的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Jeff Zekauskas。

Thanks very much for in in 2024 for your cash flow from operations was up 1%, even though your EPS grew about 10%. Would say that the press number and so when you look at 2025 and year EPS growth of four to seven cash flow from operations, corn to grow higher or lower?

非常感謝您 2024 年的營運現金流成長了 1%，儘管您的每股盈餘成長了約 10%。那麼當您展望 2025 年以及每年 EPS 成長 4 到 7 時，玉米的經營現金流會成長更高還是更低？

And then secondly, in terms of market share in the overall industrial gas market market share pretty much constant for all of the major players, or are you gaining share overall or losing share there are any share shift?

其次，就整個工業氣體市場的市場份額而言，所有主要參與者的市場份額基本上保持不變，或者您的總體份額是在增加還是在減少，是否有份額變化？

Matt talk about the cash flows, and we'll talk about the market.

馬特談論現金流，然後我們再談市場。

So far on the OCF, it's your point that tend to look at EBITDA operates two OCF rates, so similar to what you're saying, but instead of EPS EBITDA. And to your point, though they should grow similarly and the ratio we tend to always look to achieve on OCF to EBITDA is usually in the low 80s. And your exact point of what we had occur over the last probably, I would say 24 months, give or take is this unwinding of our end engineering portfolio as we worked out the sanction projects. And so what that created or do you have a large influx of deposits of cash that stopped then we had to settle the payments to basically suppliers and you had a very rapid acceleration of an unwind. So that created a large outflow of cash associated with the engineering business.

到目前為止，關於 OCF，您的觀點是傾向於關注 EBITDA 運行兩個 OCF 率，因此與您所說的類似，但不是 EPS EBITDA。正如您所說，儘管它們的增長速度應該類似，但我們始終希望實現的 OCF 與 EBITDA 比率通常在 80% 以下。您提到的過去大概 24 個月左右發生的事情的確切要點是，我們在製定制裁項目時解除了最終工程組合的束縛。那麼，這造成了什麼後果？這導致與工程業務相關的現金大量流出。

And that's what's created a slower growth of OCS relative to EBITDA because essentially what you had with some liabilities, which are the contract liabilities, if you look at that specific line has been quite favorable. And what is it and what the liabilities are unwinding on the wind down, but they're not cash generative. So that's why they create that unfavorable aspect on the working capital line that you see. So that is what's been driving this inability for the EBITDA and OCF to grow together. We've substantially gotten through all that in our engineering business. I expect 2025 to be a lot closer aligned on those growth rates. But this is normally this is how the engineering, the percent completion business where it's normally, it's spread over a four-year build cycle. So you don't notice it. But given the events of the sanction projects that got compressed into a much tighter structure as we had to deal with the Accenture projects.

這就是造成 OCS 相對於 EBITDA 成長較慢的原因，因為從本質上講，你所擁有的一些負債（即合約負債）如果你看一下那條特定的線，它是相當有利的。它是什麼？ 在清盤時負債是多少，但它們不能產生現金。這就是為什麼他們會在營運資本線上造成您所看到的不利影響。這就是導致 EBITDA 和 OCF 無法共同成長的原因。我們在工程業務中基本上已經解決了所有這些問題。我預計 2025 年的成長率將更加接近。但這通常是工程、百分比完成業務的方式，通常分佈在四年的建設週期內。所以你沒有註意到。但考慮到製裁事件，由於我們必須處理埃森哲項目，因此該項目被壓縮成更緊密的結構。

And let me talk about market share cycling, Jeff, to be honest, we don't spend a lot of time thinking and talking about market share.

傑夫，讓我來談談市佔率循環，說實話，我們不會花很多時間思考和談論市場佔有率。

I think it's something that we can segment down and talk about specifics and that's what I'm going to do for you. Somebody to start off by just reminding you record a sale of Gas backlog logos, seven plus billion, right asset, good test of their market share is habit. And to be honest, the winning more than our fair share of those large projects, which are, as I will remind you, as we said in our prepared remarks, these are contracted growth with a good solid terms and conditions, including termination guarantee team, a minimum of $1 of capital that is that as guaranteed.

我認為我們可以細分這件事並討論具體細節，這就是我要為您做的事情。有人先提醒你記錄天然氣積壓標誌的銷售額，七十多億美元，正確的資產，很好地測試他們的市佔率是一種習慣。老實說，我們贏得的那些大型專案超過了我們應得的份額，正如我在準備好的評論中所說的那樣，這些都是合約成長，具有良好而可靠的條款和條件，包括終止擔保團隊，最低 1 美元的資本，這是保證。

So just as a reminder, that very some very rigorous definition of backlog where we are selling today with our record backlog of demonstrates on the larger project site in how we are positioned in terms of market share.

因此，需要提醒的是，我們今天銷售的積壓訂單的定義非常嚴格，我們的記錄積壓訂單在更大的項目現場展示了我們在市場份額方面的定位。

For the merchant and package business.

針對商家和包裹業務。

The console market share is less relevant.

遊戲機的市佔率較不重要。

What is more important than which is where we spend most of our time thinking about network density?

比起哪個更重要的是我們花大部分時間思考網路密度的地方？

Clearly you have network density, you are the leading player in that market, usually BioMar. So it's very important to make sure the network density is what you drive through the decisions you make in terms of how you manage your business on a day-to-day basis. So I feel pretty good about the network that we develop and the strength of our market position in each one of those net was which actually results.

顯然，您擁有網路密度，您是該市場的領導者，通常是 BioMar。因此，確保網路密度是您根據日常業務管理決策所決定的，這一點非常重要。因此，我對我們開發的網路感到非常滿意，並且我們在每個網路中的市場地位確實得到了鞏固。

And as I said earlier, getting the margin expansion that look for and getting the market position and the strength of our relations with our customers because of those networks that we've developed. So I'll just summarize spending to ship to continue to move forward given these elements that I just talked about.

正如我之前所說，透過我們所開發的網絡，我們獲得了所尋求的利潤擴張、市場地位以及與客戶關係的加強。因此，考慮到我剛才談到的這些因素，我將總結一下船舶支出如何繼續向前發展。

And your next question comes from the line of Steve Byrne, Bank of America.

您的下一個問題來自美國銀行的史蒂夫伯恩。

I was wanting to better understand the 59, some small on-site wins. Maybe more specifically, how would you compare the the contract terms of those small loan, so versus the loan side? So I would assume these are long term take or pay agreements, some level, maybe even have your own employees on site. So how would you how would you compare the returns on these projects versus for big ones we remove. Can you comment on boots, what are the gases that are driving the small on sites, a year business oxygen for oxyfuels or hydrogen, etcetera?

我想更了解 59 一些現場小勝利。也許更具體地說，您如何比較這些小額貸款的合約條款與貸款方的合約條款？因此，我認為這些是長期的照付不議協議，某種程度上，甚至可能在現場有自己的員工。那麼您如何比較這些項目與我們移除的大項目的回報呢？您能否評論一下，驅動小型工地的氣體有哪些，一年商業用氧氣換取含氧燃料還是氫氣等等？

As a fantastic question, Steve and I I really wanted to somebody raises the banks are doing that 59 long-term contracts. You would ask you to read, we signed 59 long-term contracts and are building 64 funds. All this happened in the space of the last 12 months. So feel really good about breaking the record. Now let's talk about the profile of the smaller. I get excited about small onsites because from so many different perspective, they are actually a perfect way of generating annuity income for this business.

這是一個非常棒的問題，史蒂夫和我真的很想讓某人提出銀行正在簽訂的 59 份長期合約。你會要求你讀一下，我們簽署了 59 份長期合同，並且正在建立 64 只基金。這一切都發生在過去12個月內。打破紀錄真的感覺非常好。現在我們來談談較小的那一個的概況。我對小型現場感到很興奮，因為從許多不同的角度來看，它們實際上是為這項業務創造年金收入的完美方式。

And you can imagine that building 64 plants will be starting up more than one plant a week to make sure that revenue and cash generation happens. Let's talk about returns, terms and conditions and the types of gases, something good to start with the types of guests, reusable oxygen, nitrogen. And indeed, in the future, we expect to see electrolyzer base hydrogen, which is currently not included in our definition for small cells headwinds. But at some stage, we'll see that as a developing portfolio element added onto the small on-site oxygen nitrogen, largely obviously, and I'll give you a great example.

你可以想像，建造 64 家工廠意味著每週啟動一家以上的工廠，以確保產生收入和現金。讓我們來談談回報、條款和條件以及氣體的類型，從客人類型開始是件好事，可重複使用的氧氣、氮氣。事實上，在未來，我們預計會看到電解器基礎氫，而這目前並不包含在我們對小型電池逆風的定義中。但在某個階段，我們會看到它作為一個發展中的投資組合元素添加到小型現場氧氮中，這很明顯，我會給你一個很好的例子。

So we've been working with many customers, outtakes one, Owens, Illinois, where we've been supporting them on their decarbonization efforts. In this particular case, we have a piece of applications technology called Optimal's that we have developed and we have deployed that successfully across a number of class customers was July being a good example of what are those where we are able to recover, do heat recovery, which allows them to get significant efficiency and reduced natural gas consumption has run the throughput of their bonuses at a significantly higher level.

因此，我們一直與許多客戶合作，其中之一就是伊利諾伊州歐文斯，我們一直在支持他們的脫碳努力。在這個特殊的案例中，我們開發了一項名為 Optimal 的應用技術，並已在多個級別的客戶中成功部署，7 月份就是一個很好的例子，說明了我們能夠進行熱回收，這使他們獲得了顯著的效率，並減少了天然氣消耗，使他們的獎金吞吐量達到了更高的水平。

That's a good example of small on-site goes on site actually, so that we do the same with paper and pulp with the same with electronics, etcetera, which is where we would largely used nitrogen as an example. So both of these gases dry, our small as a portfolio and our kind of largely equally split between the different technologies that we apply.

這實際上是小型現場作業的一個很好的例子，我們對紙張和紙漿以及電子產品等也採取同樣的措施，在這些方面我們主要使用氮氣作為例子。因此，這兩種氣體都很乾燥，我們的投資組合規模很小，而且我們在所應用的不同技術之間分配大致相同。

And when the tons of these smaller sized contracts range between 10 and 15 years, exactly identical to what you would typically see on the on the laws, on-site visit of the divisions are all more identical as well, same fixed fee elements that we talk about similar profile in terms of cash flows. What tends to happen though, is that the execution time line for these projects as much shorter, typically we'd be able to deploy a small on-site anywhere between nine to 15 months.

這些較小規模合約的期限為 10 至 15 年，與您通常在法律上看到的完全相同，各部門的現場訪問也更加相同，相同的固定費用要素，我們談論的現金流方面的類似情況。然而，通常會發生的情況是，這些專案的執行時間線要短得多，通常我們可以在 9 到 15 個月的時間內部署一個小型現場。

As you know, the large on-site presence, yes, on larger projects that we do tend to take longer in terms of their construction and commissioning period. So again, a very nice piece of another small loan size. We're able to derisk the execution as well because the execution or a portion of the civils is carried out by the customer and again, helps us both implement and construct quickly, but also how the customer take the risk around the civils piece as well that brings me to returns. And our returns, typically, both small, all sites are above what we would see on average, what some of the large projects.

如您所知，在我們進行的大型專案中，大量的現場人員往往需要更長的建設和調試時間。所以，這又是一筆非常好的小額貸款。我們也能夠降低執行風險，因為民事部分的執行或部分執行是由客戶進行的，這不僅有助於我們快速實施和構建，而且還可以幫助客戶承擔民事部分的風險，從而給我帶來回報。通常來說，無論是小型專案還是所有工地，我們的回報都高於一些大型專案的平均回報。

So feel really good about the return, highly accretive to our portfolio. And again, you've been seeing over the last four or five years, we've put a lot of focus. We are developing this part of the portfolio and are really seeing the benefits of that in the 59 lottery contract we sign and the 64 plants to be building up some all in, I think, really good part of the portfolio. We are very excited about it.

所以對於回報感到非常滿意，這對我們的投資組合有很大的增值作用。再說一遍，正如你們所看到的，在過去的四、五年裡，我們投入了大量的精力。我們正在開發這部分投資組合，並且真正看到了它的好處，我們簽署的 59 份彩票合約和將要建造的 64 家工廠都帶來了好處，我認為這是投資組合中非常好的一部分。我們對此感到非常興奮。

And your next question comes from the line of Michael Sison, Wells Fargo.

您的下一個問題來自富國銀行的邁克爾·西森。

Hi, this is Avio automate things to keep my question on this. The sort of touched on earlier in the call, but I wondered if you could just clarify the contribution from pricing versus productivity and cost management. When we're talking about forward looking guidance to the acquired for the year?

你好，這是 Avio 自動化程序，用於保存我關於此的問題。我們在早些時候的電話會議中已經提到過這個問題，但我想知道您是否可以澄清定價與生產力和成本管理的貢獻。當我們談論今年收購的前瞻性指引？

So we don't split that out but as you mentioned on the algorithm, so we've got 10 plus percent in the combination of the capital allocation contribution and the management actually contribution. And for purposes of guidance, I'd say roughly split 50-50 or so 5% at this stage. Historically, management actions have been the larger contribution, but we always need and want to think about that as a spread right to think about when in isolation to us, does it make a lot of sense because you'll see very different inflation levels and different countries.

因此，我們沒有將其分拆出來，但正如您在演算法中提到的那樣，我們在資本配置貢獻和管理實際貢獻的組合中獲得了 10% 以上。為了提供指導，我認為現階段大致分成 50-50 或 5% 左右。從歷史上看，管理行動的貢獻較大，但我們始終需要並希望將其視為一種利差權，當我們孤立地考慮時，這是否很有意義，因為你會看到不同國家的通膨水平非常不同。

So the local spread of price to cost inflation is a critical metric for us because of that positive spread is what's part of the compound value creation of the model. So it's a very local discussion, but the spread needs to remain positive. That's a big component of the margin expansion of long-term margin expansion as well. But I'd say for purposes of the guidance right now, just assume it's roughly half from management actions at the 10% and half from capital allocation of the 10%, so five and five.

因此，價格與成本通膨的局部利差對我們來說是一個關鍵指標，因為這種正利差是這個模型複合價值創造的一部分。因此，這是一個非常局部的討論，但傳播需要保持積極性。這也是長期利潤率擴張的重要組成部分。但我想說，就目前的指導目的而言，只是假設它大約一半來自 10% 的管理行動，一半來自 10% 的資本配置，所以是五比五。

And as Sanjiv mentioned, we're obviously going to continue to take actions to trying to improve on that. But that's what's laid out in the guidance at this stage so that Inc.

正如 Sanjiv 所提到的，我們顯然會繼續採取行動，努力改善這一點。但這就是現階段指引中規定的內容，以便 Inc.

And your next question comes from the line of John McNulty, BMO Capital Markets.

您的下一個問題來自 BMO 資本市場的 John McNulty。

On sort of question around the $10 billion backlog between sale of gas and sale of equipment on how much of the equipment at this point is locked in where we don't have to worry about tariffs or maybe the benefit of the strong dollar? And how much of it is there a little bit of exposure on how should we be thinking about that?

關於天然氣銷售和設備銷售之間 100 億美元積壓訂單的問題，目前有多少設備被鎖定，我們不必擔心關稅或強勢美元帶來的好處？關於我們該如何思考這個問題，有多少是值得探討的呢？

So again, as you said, $10 billion in backlog, about 3.1 or 2.2 of that sits in a in the SOE. side, the sale of equipment side and the balance seven plus sitting in a in the sale of gas side. So as far as does that concern, obviously, we've been looking at at the portfolio this OE side, our contractual protection typically takes care of that. So we go in with form pricing with our contractors and wherever necessary. We have contractual protection to make sure that events like the tariffs, etcetera, get adequately covered on the sale of gas side, where we're doing a lot of the procurement.

所以，正如您所說，100 億美元的積壓訂單中，約有 310 億美元或 220 億美元屬於國有企業。邊，出售裝備邊，剩下的七加坐在邊，出售瓦斯邊。因此就這一問題而言，顯然，我們一直在關注 OE 方面的投資組合，我們的合約保護通常會解決這個問題。因此，我們會與承包商一起討論表格定價以及任何必要事項。我們有合約保護，以確保關稅等事件在天然氣銷售方面得到充分覆蓋，我們在該方面進行了大量採購。

We're obviously managing and tracking that quite closely. We did that study recently for a US projects and actually the impact of tariffs as is diminimus. So really we are not seeing any impact there now experience over the past has been there. What data IP data for a while now, including the first round of the administration a few years ago was that it did get introduced typically didn't really impact. And our form offers that we that we put it on the procurement cycle, but also more importantly, we got some benefit typically out of devaluation of currencies that more than offset the tariff impact is there was impact of any any significant.

我們顯然正在密切管理和追蹤這一點。我們最近對一個美國計畫做了這項研究，實際上關稅的影響微乎其微。因此，我們實際上並沒有看到現在有任何影響，但過去的經驗已經證明了這一點。一段時間以來，包括幾年前第一輪政府引入的 IP 數據通常並沒有產生真正的影響。我們的表格顯示，我們將其納入採購週期，但更重要的是，我們從貨幣貶值中獲得了一些好處，這些好處足以抵消關稅的影響，即存在任何重大影響。

So all in ICU, we've looked at tariffs as part of what we've done in the past, and we've got to manage that adequately at this point in time. We feel pretty good about where our projects done.

因此，在 ICU 中，我們將關稅視為我們過去所做工作的一部分，並且我們必須在此時對其進行適當的管理。我們對於專案的完成情況感到非常滿意。

And your next question comes from the line of Peter Clark, Bernstein.

您的下一個問題來自伯恩斯坦的彼得克拉克 (Peter Clark)。

I want to go capital, so pump hydro ask something that's been asked before, but I'm not terribly surprised with the guidance, but maybe a bit off on the ForEx and I can do using the sales line or slightly lower. But I'm assuming you've got some very profitable markets in there that have been hit very hard the currency. I'm thinking, Mexico, maybe Brazil a bit in that guidance of an allied to that. The tariff risk I know gas is their travel. I know it's mostly for customers in the region, but again, some of these very profitable markets, homes risk in terms of tariffs. And again, Mexico would be a classic in terms of our just just how you think around that as well.

我想資本化，因此抽水蓄能問一些以前被問過的問題，但我對指導並不感到非常驚訝，但也許在外匯方面有點偏離，我可以使用銷售線或略低一點。但我認為那裡有一些非常有利可圖的市場，但貨幣卻遭受了嚴重打擊。我認為墨西哥和巴西可以在某種程度上成為這個聯盟的引導者。我知道天然氣的關稅風險是他們的旅行。我知道這主要針對的是該地區的客戶，但同樣，在這些利潤豐厚的市場中，房屋在關稅方面存在風險。再說一次，從我們對此的看法來看，墨西哥也是一個典型。

So we'll start with the FX, you actually hit on the two bigger ones, Brazil and Mexico, where the larger ones, I would say, if you think about the evolution of FX through 2024 on some of the European based currencies, as you probably know, were almost quite favorable odds flat in the beginning of 2024. But in 14, what you were seeing were a lot of Latam currencies devalue are very fairly materially from the pace of actually pace of the one that Brazilian reais and then Argentinean peso, as you can imagine, which is on a on a managed devaluation, which uses hyper currency inflation. So Latam currencies, we're probably seeing more of the brand in the first half to two-thirds of the year.

因此，我們將從外匯開始，實際上你會碰到兩個較大的國家，巴西和墨西哥，我想說，如果你考慮一下到 2024 年外匯對一些歐洲貨幣的演變，你可能知道，在 2024 年初，這兩個較大的國家幾乎相當有利。但在 14 年，你會看到很多拉丁美洲國家貨幣貶值，其貶值速度與巴西雷亞爾和阿根廷比索的實際貶值速度相比差距非常大，你可以想像，這是一種可控的貶值，利用的是超級通貨膨脹。因此，對於拉丁美洲貨幣，我們可能會在上半年至三分之二的時間內看到更多的品牌。

But what we saw in the fourth quarter, just given some of the geopolitical and political events was a significant flight to the dollar. I think DXY index is probably the best indicator that if you sort of look at DXY, I am right around the beginning of the prior to the US elections to where it ended in the year. I'd appreciate it almost 10%. I think you gave a pretty good indication of the six major basket currencies of which that index is comprised of how much those major currencies we saw that both.

但我們在第四季看到，考慮到一些地緣政治和政治事件，出現了大量資金湧向美元的現象。我認為 DXY 指數可能是最好的指標，如果你看一下 DXY，你會發現它正處於美國大選前夕到今年年底的水平。我會非常感激，大概 10%。我認為您很好地表明了該指數包含的六種主要籃子貨幣的比例，以及我們看到的這些主要貨幣的比例。

So that was I would say it was a two stage impact on the rates and what that ended up with some of the more larger currencies like the EURO, the sterling etcetera, really devalued in the back half of the fourth quarter. So that I would say that with the dynamic we saw, it will be a little bit right now. We'll obviously, as we mentioned, we book on the average rate each month. And then we'll see if the devaluations do create inflationary aspects, I think Sanjiv advantage in the tariffs and in general, as you can imagine, our impact on the tariffs is really indirect. We don't since we're so localized to your point, we don't have much direct impacts.

所以，我想說這對利率產生了兩個階段的影響，最終導致一些主要貨幣，如歐元、英鎊等，在第四季後半段大幅貶值。所以我想說，從我們看到的動態來看，現在會有一點。顯然，正如我們所提到的，我們每個月都會按照平均價格預訂。然後我們將看到貶值是否確實會造成通貨膨脹，我認為 Sanjiv 在關稅方面具有優勢，而且總的來說，你可以想像，我們對關稅的影響確實是間接的。我們不會，因為我們太局限於你的觀點，所以我們不會產生太多的直接影響。

And you mentioned the equipment, which is small and that tends to self-correct. So it really just comes down to a function of the customers that we supply and what production line. I will say I have given our leading density positions and a lot of these economies, we feel quite good that we are there to capture where products move to because I think at the end of the day, what you have to ask yourself, if these tariffs is production shifting or will there be a reduction of production, but it should basis we feel quite good will capture where it goes. And if there is a net reduction in the question will be from so time will tell on that. But this is more going to be a function of that IP we talked about and we'll see how it plays out. But given the guide we gave on a basically a zero IP. at the midpoint from will have to see how how things play out.

您提到的設備很小，而且可以自我校正。因此，這實際上取決於我們供應的客戶和生產線的功能。我想說，鑑於我們領先的密度地位以及許多經濟體，我們感覺很好，我們能夠掌握產品的去向，因為我認為到最後，你必須問自己，這些關稅是否會轉移生產或是否會減少生產，但它應該建立在我們感覺很好的基礎上，能夠掌握產品的去向。而這個問題是否會淨減少，時間將證明一切。但這更像是我們所討論的 IP 的功能，我們將看看它如何發揮作用。但是根據我們給出的指南，IP 基本上為零。從中點開始，我們將不得不觀察事態如何發展。

And your next question comes from the line of Patrick Cunningham, Citigroup.

您的下一個問題來自花旗集團的 Patrick Cunningham。

Just on the step-up in CapEx for 2025. Is most of them have been driven by the two large projects in? Is the step up from those projects more meaningful in 2026 as well?

2025 年資本支出將大幅增加。其中大部分是不是都受到了兩個大項目的帶動？這些項目的進步在 2026 年是否也更有意義？

So Patrick, the hub we just referenced, the sale of Gas backlog being an all-time high at $7.1 billion paid. That's the reason why you're seeing the step-up in CapEx and obviously, sitting within that are the two large projects that we're executing around the Clean Energy's, but also a number of Alec electronics projects, etcetera. So that's driving the CapEx number as things stand.

派崔克，我們剛才提到的中心，天然氣積壓訂單的銷售額達到了歷史最高水平，達到 71 億美元。這就是您看到資本支出增加的原因，顯然，其中包括我們圍繞清潔能源實施的兩個大型項目，以及一些 Alec 電子項目等等。所以就目前情況而言，這推動了資本支出數字。

Your next question comes from the line of John Roberts, Linde PLC.

您的下一個問題來自林德集團 (Linde PLC) 的約翰·羅伯茨 (John Roberts)。

Your competitor had a large nonrecurring helium sale in the quarter.

您的競爭對手本季有大量非經常性氦氣銷售。

Portions of this transcript marked (technical difficulty) indicate audio problems. The missing text will be supplied if a replay becomes available.

本記錄中標示「技術難題」的部分錶示音訊問題。如果有重播的話，將會補充缺少的文字。