林德集團 (LIN) 2020 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to the Second Quarter 2020 Linde Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded (Operator Instructions).

各位女士、先生，感謝您稍候並歡迎參加林德（Linde）2020 年第二季財報電話會議。（接線員指示）請注意，今天的會議將被錄音（接線員指示）。

I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Juan Pelaez. Thank you, and please go ahead, sir.

現在我想把會議交給今天的發言人 Juan Pelaez。謝謝，先生，請開始。

Great. Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for attending our 2020 second quarter earnings call and webcast. I'm Juan Pelaez, Head of Investor Relations, and I'm joined this morning by Steve Angel, Chief Executive Officer; and Matt White, Chief Financial Officer.

好的，謝謝。各位早安，感謝各位參加我們 2020 年第二季財報電話會議與網路直播。我是投資人關係主管 Juan Pelaez，今天早上與我一同出席的還有執行長 Steve Angel，以及財務長 Matt White。

Today's presentation materials are available on our website at linde.com in the Investors section. Please read the forward-looking statement disclosure on Page 2 of the slides and note that it applies to all statements made during this teleconference. The reconciliations of the adjusted numbers are in the appendix of this presentation. Steve and Matt will now give us an update on Linde's business outlook and second quarter performance, and then we'll be available to answer questions.

今天的簡報資料可在我們網站 linde.com 的「投資人」專區取得。請閱讀投影片第 2 頁的前瞻性陳述揭露，並注意其適用於本次電話會議期間所作的所有陳述。調整後數字的調節表位於本簡報的附錄。接下來 Steve 與 Matt 將向各位更新林德的業務展望與第二季表現，之後我們將開放問答。

Let me turn the call over to Steve now.

我現在把電話交給 Steve。

Thanks, Juan. Good morning, everyone. Matt will cover the numbers, which were obviously quite good. But just a few comments. We grew earnings per share versus Q1 and year-over-year despite currency headwinds and weaker volumes. Cash flow was very strong. Return on capital continues to improve. Operating margins improved in every segment. In other words, Q2 was like any other quarter, except we had to deliver this one through a pandemic.

謝謝，Juan。各位早安。Matt 會說明數字，顯然表現相當不錯。不過我先補充幾點。我們的每股盈餘相較第一季與去年同期都有成長，儘管面臨匯率逆風與銷量較弱。現金流非常強勁。資本報酬率持續改善。各事業部的營業利益率皆有所提升。換句話說，第二季就像任何其他季度一樣，只是我們必須在疫情之下交出這份成績。

Safety performance continued to improve, while we battled COVID around the world. Plant reliability is at an all-time high. We brought several large projects online. Our hospital and home care businesses continue to play an important role around the world in the fight against this respiratory illness. We provided a lot of support in our communities through donations and in kind gifts.

在全球對抗 COVID 的同時，我們的安全績效仍持續改善。工廠可靠度創下歷史新高。我們讓數個大型專案上線。我們的醫院與居家照護業務在全球對抗這種呼吸道疾病的過程中，持續扮演重要角色。我們也透過捐款與實物捐贈，為社區提供大量支持。

This type of performance doesn't happen because corporate ordains it. It happens because 80,000 committed and highly capable Linde employees do their jobs exceptionally well around the world.

這樣的表現不是因為總部下令就會發生，而是因為 80,000 名投入且能力卓越的林德員工在全球各地把工作做得非常出色。

If we turn to Page 3, we have talked about what makes Linde resilient in the past. You can see that in a few bullets on the left-hand side of the page. The best-performing markets in Q2, not surprisingly, were more defensive, like health care, food and electronics. And when combined with our commercial terms and conditions, that guarantees us a steady stream of cash flow, irrespective of volumes, you have what we demonstrated during Q2, a very resilient business. We are not directly part of any global supply chain. We source, produce and sell locally. Our businesses are local, and they optimize their cost structure based on local market conditions.

如果翻到第 3 頁，我們過去談過林德為何具備韌性。您可以在頁面左側看到幾個重點。第二季表現最好的市場不令人意外地較具防禦性，例如醫療保健、食品與電子。再結合我們的商業條款與條件，即使不論銷量如何也能確保穩定的現金流，這就是我們在第二季所展現的：一個非常具韌性的企業。我們並非任何全球供應鏈的直接一環。我們在地採購、在地生產、在地銷售。我們的業務是地方性的，並會依據當地市場狀況來最佳化成本結構。

Regarding our backlog, it remains firm. We have seen some delays, which we are being compensated for, but the backlog has held together well. And it is all for high-quality customers you know well.

至於我們的在手訂單（backlog），仍然穩固。我們確實看到一些延遲，而我們也因此獲得補償，但整體在手訂單維持得很好。而且這些訂單都來自您熟悉的高品質客戶。

We took additional cost actions in early March to ensure we could deliver the type of performance we could all be proud of. We eliminated discretionary costs. We made sure our productivity initiatives were delivering. We took advantage of every efficiency opportunity we could find.

我們在 3 月初採取了額外的成本措施，以確保能交出讓大家都引以為傲的表現。我們刪減了非必要的支出。我們確保生產力提升計畫確實落地。我們把握每一個能找到的效率機會。

A good indication of how well the team executed in Q2 can be found in our SG&A results, which were down 14% year-over-year and reached our lowest level at 11.9% of sales since our merger.

團隊在第二季執行力的良好指標之一，是我們的銷售、一般及行政費用（SG&A）表現：年減 14%，並降至併購以來最低水準，占營收比重為 11.9%。

You don't deliver the kind of cash flow we did this quarter without doing a good job on working capital management. And when you factor in CapEx efficiencies, we generated approximately $1 billion in free cash flow. Pricing continues to hold up well with positive price attainment in every business.

若沒有良好的營運資金管理，就不可能在本季交出我們這樣的現金流表現。再加上資本支出（CapEx）效率提升，我們產生了約 10 億美元的自由現金流。定價仍維持良好，各項業務皆達成正向的價格實現（price attainment）。

So where do we stand today since our merger closed on March 1 of last year? Operating margins have improved over 300 basis points and return on capital, 200 basis points. Earnings per share grew 23% last year, ex-currency translation, and has grown 11% ex-FX through the first half of this year. And based on our strong and stable cash flow, we raised the dividend another 10% this year, which marks the 27th straight year we've increased the dividend, and we have no intention of breaking that streak now.

那麼，自去年 3 月 1 日併購完成以來，我們目前處於什麼位置？營業利益率提升超過 300 個基點，資本報酬率提升 200 個基點。去年每股盈餘在排除匯率換算影響後成長 23%，而今年上半年在排除匯率影響後成長 11%。基於我們強勁且穩定的現金流，我們今年再度把股利提高 10%，這也標誌著我們連續第 27 年提高股利，而我們無意在此刻中斷這項紀錄。

If you can turn to Page 4. So what are we trying to accomplish over the coming months and years? What is our core strategy? I broke it down to 3 simple sections.

請翻到第 4 頁。那麼在接下來幾個月與幾年，我們想達成什麼？我們的核心策略是什麼？我把它拆成 3 個簡單的部分。

First of all, we want to continue to optimize the base business. We want to drive network density in our core geographies. We want to leverage digitalization initiatives to drive continuous improvement in every aspect of our business. We want to ensure we have best-in-class price management in every corner of the company. We want to streamline our business portfolio down to businesses we are confident we can operate the way we want to operate them. We are leveraged to any economic recovery. As I said, prices have remained stable. So all we need is more volume. The increased volume allows us to operate our plants and distribution networks more efficiently. And that SG&A reduction I spoke about earlier, those costs will not come back anytime soon. Needless to say, we will get leverage down the income statement with any improvement in economic activity.

第一，我們要持續最佳化基礎業務。我們要在核心地理區域提升網路密度。我們要運用數位化計畫，推動業務各方面的持續改善。我們要確保公司每個角落都具備同級最佳的價格管理。我們要精簡業務組合，聚焦在我們有信心能以我們想要的方式來營運的事業。我們能受惠於任何經濟復甦。正如我所說，價格一直保持穩定，所以我們需要的只是更多的量。量的增加讓我們能更有效率地運轉工廠與配送網路。而我先前提到的 SG&A 降幅，那些成本短期內不會回來。不用說，任何經濟活動的改善都會讓我們在損益表上取得營運槓桿。

We are capitalizing on growth opportunities now and coming out of COVID. I expect to see several opportunities in electronics come to fruition in the coming months. And health care, which is 21% of total sales today, will continue to grow at a nice, say, 3% to 5% clip organically.

我們正在把握當下以及走出 COVID 後的成長機會。我預期未來幾個月電子領域會有數個機會開花結果。而醫療保健目前占總營收 21%，未來仍將以不錯的速度有機成長，大約每年 3% 到 5%。

And though the backlog is coming down somewhat as we start up new projects, the project work between sale of gas and third-party remains healthy at $8.6 billion.

此外，雖然隨著新專案啟動，在手訂單會略有下降，但包含售氣與第三方工程在內的專案工作量仍維持健康水準，達 86 億美元。

The last element of growth I wanted to talk about is one that seems to be dominating the airwaves these days. And that is clean energy. There's a lot of hype, marketing and companies that want to burnish their ESG credentials. Some companies are just looking for a way out of their current predicament. And then you have companies like Linde that are actually players in the hydrogen business today.

我想談的最後一個成長要素，是近來似乎主導媒體版面的議題：潔淨能源。市場上有很多炒作、行銷，以及想要美化自身 ESG 資歷的公司。有些公司只是想找方法擺脫目前的困境。而像林德這樣的公司，則是今天就已經在氫能業務中實際參與的玩家。

If you turn to Page 5. So why do we believe clean hydrogen is real? Key countries and regions around the world are leading the charge with regulations, targets, subsidies and funding. You can see a list of those regulations on Page 10.

請翻到第 5 頁。我們為什麼相信潔淨氫是真實可行的？全球關鍵國家與地區正透過法規、目標、補貼與資金來帶頭推動。您可以在第 10 頁看到這些法規的清單。

Why are they doing this? It is about decarbonizing their economies to address the challenges of climate change, of course, but it is also about resuscitating their economies post-COVID. They want GDP growth, and they want jobs for their people. And they don't want to outsource their green economy to anyone else. They want to build it all locally, if at all possible. The EU does acknowledge they will need to supplement their renewable power requirements from areas outside the EU, like North Africa, where they also have the ability to repurpose natural gas pipelines for renewable hydrogen.

他們為什麼要這麼做？當然是為了讓經濟去碳化，以因應氣候變遷的挑戰，但同時也是為了在 COVID 之後振興經濟。他們想要 GDP 成長，也想為人民創造工作機會。而且他們不希望把綠色經濟外包給任何人；若可能，他們希望盡量在本地建置完整的產業鏈。歐盟也承認，他們將需要從歐盟以外地區補充其再生能源電力需求，例如北非；那裡也具備將天然氣管線改作輸送再生氫的能力。

On Page 10, you can see a map of the optimal renewable sources from around the world. Clearly, countries like the U.S. and China have the ability to develop their own sources of renewable hydrogen for their own needs.

在第 10 頁，您可以看到全球最佳再生能源來源的地圖。顯然，美國與中國等國家有能力為自身需求開發自有的再生氫來源。

In addition to renewable, there are quite a few countries advantaged in low-carbon sources, such as natural gas. That will continue to play an important role in the transition from gray to green hydrogen as well as in the production of blue hydrogen, where the CO2 is captured in the hydrogen production process.

除了再生來源之外，也有不少國家在低碳來源方面具備優勢，例如天然氣。這將在從灰氫轉向綠氫的過渡期中持續扮演重要角色，也會在藍氫的生產中發揮作用；藍氫是在氫氣生產過程中將二氧化碳（CO2）加以捕捉。

Back to Page 5, there are challenges. First of all, you have to determine how these funding mechanisms will actually work. But more importantly, over the next decade, the cost of clean hydrogen at the point-of-use needs to drop at least 50% to 60% from where it is today to roughly $4 per kilogram. To reach that target, renewable power costs need to come down, along with the cost of electrolysis itself. This can be achieved by scaling up capacity, improving efficiencies and developing greater standardization around the supporting infrastructure. This will not happen overnight, but it's certainly feasible within the next 10 years and something we can directly impact.

回到第 5 頁，仍有一些挑戰。首先，你必須釐清這些資金機制實際將如何運作。但更重要的是，在未來十年內，終端使用點的潔淨氫成本必須至少從目前水準下降 50% 到 60%，降至約每公斤 4 美元。要達成這個目標，再生電力成本需要下降，電解（electrolysis）本身的成本也要下降。這可以透過擴大產能規模、提升效率，以及在配套基礎設施方面建立更高程度的標準化來實現。這不會一蹴可幾，但在未來 10 年內絕對可行，而且也是我們能直接影響的方向。

Some form of carbon pricing will also need to be in place for clean hydrogen to compete against cheap fossil fuels in some sectors. And the market needs to develop, especially fuel cell electric vehicles for heavy haul trucking, which could become the largest target market for mobility by an order of magnitude.

在某些領域，若要讓潔淨氫能與廉價化石燃料競爭，也需要建立某種形式的碳定價機制。而市場也需要發展，特別是重型長途卡車用的燃料電池電動車（FCEV），其在移動領域的目標市場規模可能會以一個數量級成長，成為最大的目標市場。

Our clean hydrogen strategy is not unlike our strategy for industrial gases. These markets are local and will evolve uniquely. For example, South Korea and Japan are focused on building their hydrogen economy first, irrespective of the carbon content or color of the hydrogen molecule. Green hydrogen will come later when it reaches scale and cost. China is focused on both gray and green hydrogen molecules. The EU wants green now but privately admits gray or a transition through blue hydrogen will be necessary for a period of time. The U.S. hasn't declared yet, except for California, but the rest of the country will likely pursue all colors of the rainbow, although several are already following California's lead.

我們的潔淨氫能策略與我們的工業氣體策略並無二致。這些市場具有在地性，且將以各自獨特的方式演進。例如，南韓與日本正專注於優先建立其氫能經濟，不論氫分子的碳含量或「顏色」為何。綠氫將在達到規模與成本條件後才會到來。中國同時聚焦灰氫與綠氫分子。歐盟希望現在就要綠氫，但私下也承認在一段時間內，灰氫或透過藍氫過渡將是必要的。美國尚未表態，除加州之外；但全國其他地區很可能會追求「彩虹的所有顏色」，儘管已有數個州正跟隨加州的腳步。

We want to leverage and build on our existing integrated supply capabilities in each of these regions. And the appendix, on Page 11, illustrates our capabilities across the entire hydrogen value chain. I think you can see we are well-positioned to participate as these markets develop. Emerging technologies like PEM electrolysis technology needs to mature to bring clean hydrogen down the cost curve. We are partnered with leading technology companies like ITM Power to do just that and are already starting to see the benefits of such relationships.

我們希望在上述各地區善用並延伸我們既有的一體化供應能力。附錄第11頁展示了我們在整個氫能價值鏈上的能力。我想你們可以看到，隨著這些市場發展，我們已具備良好條件參與其中。像 PEM 電解等新興技術需要成熟，才能讓潔淨氫能沿著成本曲線下降。我們與 ITM Power 等領先技術公司合作，正是為了達成這一點，而且我們已開始看到這類合作關係所帶來的效益。

So I will end with the caption at the top of Slide 5. I say this can be a huge market by 2030. What needs to happen? It is a bit of chicken or the egg in the mobility market. You need fuel cell electric vehicle adoption to drive hydrogen growth, but you also need low-cost hydrogen and scaled infrastructure to enable fuel cell electric vehicle adoption. If 1% of all energy consumed by heavy haul trucking today was converted to fuel cell electric vehicles, that would be approximately a $20 billion per annum hydrogen market. The other demands for hydrogen are as an energy carrier, which many consider to be a key enabler for wide-scale use of renewable power and hydrogen as a feedstock for industrial use as well as building and industrial heat.

因此我將以第5頁投影片上方的標題作結。我說到 2030 年這可能會是一個龐大的市場。需要發生什麼事？在移動市場上有點像先有雞還是先有蛋。你需要燃料電池電動車的採用來帶動氫能成長，但你也需要低成本氫能與規模化基礎設施，才能促進燃料電池電動車的採用。若今日重型長途卡車所消耗的全部能源中有 1% 轉換為燃料電池電動車，則每年約相當於 200 億美元的氫能市場。氫能的其他需求包括作為能量載體——許多人認為這是再生能源大規模使用的關鍵推動者——以及作為工業用途的原料，並用於建築與工業供熱。

All-in-all, there have been 35 applications modeled for clean hydrogen, about half of which should be competitive by 2030.

總體而言，已針對潔淨氫能建模了 35 項應用，其中約有一半在 2030 年前應可具備競爭力。

As I mentioned earlier, there seems to be new entrants in clean energy by the day, many of whom are nontraditional players in the hydrogen space. But with our expertise, capabilities, local presence and global reach, I'm confident we will capture our fair share of this market as it develops. That is why I say this will be a multibillion-dollar business for Linde.

如我先前提到的，潔淨能源領域似乎每天都有新進入者，其中許多在氫能領域屬於非傳統玩家。但憑藉我們的專業、能力、在地布局與全球觸角，我有信心在市場發展過程中取得我們應得的份額。這也是我說這將會是林德的一項數十億美元規模業務的原因。

And now I will turn it over to Matt to discuss our Q2 performance and outlook.

接下來我把時間交給 Matt，請他說明我們第二季的表現與展望。

Thanks, Steve, and good morning, everyone. The consolidated second quarter results can be found on Slide 6. Sales of $6.4 billion decreased 5% sequentially and 11% from 2019. Versus prior year, underlying sales declined 5% as 2% higher pricing was more than offset by a 7% reduction in volumes. The price improvement was across all segments and in line with globally weighted inflation. Volume trends include 2% growth in engineering, which were more than offset by a 9% decrease in the gases business.

謝謝你，Steve，各位早安。合併後的第二季結果可見第6頁投影片。銷售額 64 億美元，較前一季下降 5%，較 2019 年下降 11%。相較去年，同口徑（underlying）銷售下降 5%，其中 2% 的較高定價被 7% 的銷量下滑所抵消。價格改善涵蓋所有事業部門，並與全球加權通膨一致。銷量趨勢方面，工程業務成長 2%，但被氣體業務 9% 的下滑所抵消。

Linde Engineering continues to execute on the high-quality contractually secured $5 billion sale of equipment backlog. The gases volume decline is due to the negative economic climate, more than offsetting positive contribution from the project backlog. Overall, we estimate the second quarter sales headwind from COVID to be 8% to 10%, although it's almost impossible to know for certain.

林德工程持續執行高品質、以合約保障的 50 億美元設備銷售訂單積壓（backlog）。氣體銷量下滑主要是因負面的經濟環境，其影響超過了專案訂單積壓帶來的正面貢獻。整體而言，我們估計第二季 COVID 對銷售的逆風為 8% 至 10%，但幾乎不可能確定。

Sequentially, underlying sales declined 2% as a positive 3% contribution from engineering was more than offset by a 5% volume decline in gases. The estimated sequential impact from COVID is approximately 6% to 8%.

按季比較，同口徑銷售下降 2%，工程業務正向貢獻 3%，但被氣體業務 5% 的銷量下滑所抵消。估計 COVID 的按季影響約為 6% 至 8%。

You can see that foreign currency continues to be a headwind to sales and earnings, although the U.S. dollar has started to sell off at the end of the second quarter. If this trend were to persist, it could provide some upside to our foreign currency outlook.

你們可以看到，外匯仍持續對銷售與獲利造成逆風，儘管美元在第二季末開始走弱。若此趨勢持續，可能會為我們的外匯展望帶來一些上行空間。

Operating profit of $1.3 billion was flat with prior year and down 3% versus the first quarter. Excluding foreign currency translation, operating profit increased 4% versus 2019 and declined only 1% sequentially. The entire lending team is fully engaged to prudently manage the things within our control and deliver high-quality results in any environment. We continue to find more opportunities for productivity and efficiency every day, so we expect to further improve upon these levels. In fact, operating margins expanded 230 basis points over 2019 and 60 basis points over the first quarter. These are real and lasting improvements, well in excess of the temporary benefit from lower cost passthrough.

營業利益 13 億美元，與去年持平，較第一季下降 3%。若排除外匯換算影響，營業利益較 2019 年增加 4%，按季僅下降 1%。整個領導團隊全力投入，審慎管理我們可控的事項，並在任何環境下交付高品質成果。我們每天持續找到更多提升生產力與效率的機會，因此預期可在此水準上進一步改善。事實上，營業利益率較 2019 年擴張 230 個基點，較第一季擴張 60 個基點。這些是真實且持久的改善，遠高於成本轉嫁（passthrough）降低所帶來的暫時性利益。

Furthermore, these actions enabled us to offset the lower volumes related to COVID, which are estimated to impact profit by a few hundred basis points more than the sales effect. Second quarter EPS was $1.90. Excluding foreign currency impact, this level was 8% higher than 2019 and 3% higher sequentially. In other words, we increased earnings per share despite an almost double-digit sales decline due to the pandemic.

此外，這些行動使我們得以抵消與 COVID 相關的較低銷量；我們估計其對獲利的影響比對銷售的影響多出數百個基點。第二季每股盈餘（EPS）為 1.90 美元。若排除外匯影響，該水準較 2019 年高 8%，按季高 3%。換言之，儘管疫情導致銷售下滑接近兩位數，我們仍提高了每股盈餘。

More importantly, second quarter operating cash flow of $1.8 billion was 76% higher than last year and 31% higher than the first quarter. I'll speak more to this on the next slide, but this result is a clear validation of our business resilience and merger success. CapEx is trending downward from a combination of foreign currency, merger synergies and timing on the sale of gas project backlog, which currently stands at $3.6 billion. It's important to note that backlog definitions are not consistent within the industry. As the Linde backlog represents contractually committed, high-quality customers with incremental growth. Therefore, we have full confidence the current backlog will continue to contribute to future sales and profit.

更重要的是，第二季營運現金流 18 億美元，較去年高 76%，較第一季高 31%。我會在下一頁進一步說明，但這個結果清楚驗證了我們業務的韌性與併購整合的成功。資本支出（CapEx）因外匯、併購綜效以及氣體專案訂單積壓銷售時點等因素而呈下降趨勢；目前氣體專案訂單積壓為 36 億美元。需要注意的是，業界對 backlog 的定義並不一致。林德的 backlog 代表合約已承諾、客戶品質高且具增量成長。因此，我們對目前 backlog 將持續貢獻未來銷售與獲利充滿信心。

After-tax return on capital of 12.3% represents the highest level we've achieved since the merger date. This is a direct result of our strong commitment to capital discipline and quality growth. In fact, our integrated and dense model across all 3 supply modes of on site, merchant, and packaged gases, enables us to enhance returns on each investment, allowing further improvements in ROC without hindering growth prospects.

稅後資本報酬率（ROC）12.3%，為自合併日起我們達成的最高水準。這直接反映我們對資本紀律與高品質成長的堅定承諾。事實上，我們在現場供氣（on site）、散裝/商用（merchant）與瓶裝氣體（packaged gases）三種供應模式上所建立的一體化且高密度的營運模型，使我們能提升每一項投資的報酬，進而在不影響成長前景的情況下，進一步改善 ROC。

Slide 7 provides more details on our performance related to cash generation and capital management. The graphic on the left shows our quarterly operational cash flow trend since the merger date in Q1 2019. Recall that these figures represent GAAP operating cash flow.

第7頁投影片提供更多與現金創造及資本管理相關的績效細節。左側圖表顯示自合併日起（2019 年第一季）我們每季營運現金流的趨勢。請記得，這些數字代表 GAAP 營運現金流。

2020 first half OCF of $3.1 billion is $1 billion or almost 50% higher than the prior year level. Approximately 1/3 of this improvement is due to lower merger-related cash costs. The remaining 2/3 are from higher cash earnings and improved working capital.

2020 年上半年營運現金流（OCF）為 31 億美元，較去年增加 10 億美元，或接近 50%。其中約 1/3 的改善來自較低的併購相關現金成本；其餘 2/3 來自更高的現金獲利與營運資金改善。

In the second quarter alone, year-over-year working capital improved $430 million, with approximately $110 million from the engineering business and the rest from improved management in gases. These trends, coupled with base CapEx reductions, are evidence of merger synergies and efficiencies.

僅第二季，營運資金年對年改善 4.30 億美元，其中約 1.10 億美元來自工程業務，其餘則來自氣體業務管理改善。這些趨勢，加上基礎 CapEx 的降低，都是併購綜效與效率提升的證據。

You can also see that available operating cash flow is more than sufficient to cover the $500 million quarterly dividend and $300 million to $400 million of quarterly project CapEx spend.

你們也可以看到，可用的營運現金流不僅足以支付每季 5 億美元的股利，也足以支應每季 3 億至 4 億美元的專案 CapEx 支出。

The pie chart to the right shows how we deploy capital year-to-date through June. We paid $1 billion in dividends and are committed to growing it every year. Another $1.6 billion was invested back into the business. Quality growth is a key priority use of capital, but each opportunity must meet our investment criteria.

右側圓餅圖顯示截至 6 月的年初至今資本配置方式。我們已支付 10 億美元股利，並承諾每年提高股利。另有 16 億美元再投資於業務。高品質成長是資本使用的關鍵優先事項，但每個機會都必須符合我們的投資標準。

Finally, we repurchased $1.8 billion of Linde stock in the first quarter at an average price of $186 per share.

最後，我們在第一季以每股平均 186 美元的價格回購了 18 億美元的林德股票。

You may recall that we paused the share repurchase program at the end of the first quarter to evaluate potential decaps and other higher priority uses of capital.

你們可能記得，我們在第一季末暫停了股票回購計畫，以評估潛在的去槓桿（decaps）以及其他更高優先順序的資本用途。

While certain opportunities did not fit our investment criteria, we are still pursuing others. But expect them to take longer to develop than originally anticipated.

雖然某些機會不符合我們的投資標準，我們仍在推進其他機會。但請預期它們的發展將比原先預想的更久。

Furthermore, we continue to have access to very cost-effective capital, as we recently issued 7- and 12-year euro bonds with coupons of 0.25% and 0.55%, respectively. Both of these bonds represent the lowest coupons ever for any industrial gas company at these tenors.

此外，我們仍可取得成本極具競爭力的資金，因為我們近期發行了7年期與12年期歐元債券，票面利率分別為0.25%與0.55%。這兩檔債券在該等期限上，均創下任何工業氣體公司史上最低票息。

Given these developments and our continued significant excess cash generation, we are resuming the share repurchase program.

鑑於這些進展以及我們持續顯著的超額現金創造能力，我們將恢復股票回購計畫。

I'd like to wrap up with 2020 guidance on Slide 8. To better frame the outlook, it may be helpful to describe the second quarter monthly trends. April represented the lowest month, although it was noticeably better than what we originally expected. Subsequently, May was better than April and June was better than May. For the entire second quarter, year-over-year volumes were estimated down 8% to 10% from COVID. Although the month of June recovered to about half of that range.

我想以第8頁投影片的2020年指引作結。為了更好地說明展望，描述第二季的月度趨勢可能會有所幫助。4月是最低的月份，儘管明顯好於我們原先的預期。其後，5月優於4月，6月又優於5月。就整個第二季而言，受COVID影響，年對年銷量估計下降8%至10%。不過6月已回升至約該區間的一半。

Looking forward to the third quarter, we still expect an FX headwind of 3%, although current spot rates have improved from this initial estimate. The EPS range of $1.90 to $1.95 assumes no economic improvement from Q2 at the bottom end and a gradual increase at the top end. We are taking a more cautious approach since the pandemic is still evolving. However, if June conditions were to continue, I would expect to be at the upper end or above this guidance range. Rest assured that if the economy performs better, we will capture that upside.

展望第三季，我們仍預期外匯將帶來3%的逆風，儘管目前即期匯率已較此初始估計有所改善。每股盈餘（EPS）1.90至1.95美元的區間假設：在區間下緣，經濟狀況相較第二季沒有改善；在區間上緣，則為逐步回升。由於疫情仍在演變，我們採取更審慎的作法。然而，若6月的狀況得以延續，我預期將落在此指引區間的上緣或高於上緣。請放心，若經濟表現更佳，我們將把握這些上行空間。

The full year guidance range of $7.60 to $7.80 follows the same logic as the third quarter estimate. It assumes no improvement from Q2 at the bottom end and a gradual improvement at the top end.

全年指引區間7.60至7.80美元與第三季估計採用相同邏輯：在區間下緣假設相較第二季沒有改善，在區間上緣假設逐步改善。

Irrespective of economic conditions, we have a high degree of confidence in the business resilience and growth prospects across our integrated system.

不論經濟狀況如何，我們對於整合系統中業務的韌性與成長前景都具有高度信心。

Beyond the merger benefits, we continue to find productivity and efficiency opportunities to enhance business quality.

除了併購帶來的效益之外，我們也持續尋找生產力與效率的機會，以提升業務品質。

In addition, we are pursuing attractive growth prospects through our resilient end markets, unrivaled hydrogen asset network and world-class engineering and technical capabilities. And when the markets do recover, we fully expect to participate and win our fair share.

此外，我們也透過具韌性的終端市場、無可匹敵的氫能資產網路，以及世界級的工程與技術能力，追求具吸引力的成長前景。而當市場復甦時，我們完全預期將參與競爭並贏得我們應得的份額。

The global Linde team has successfully navigated prior economic crises, and each time has emerged even stronger. I fully expect the same for 2020.

林德全球團隊已成功度過以往的經濟危機，而且每一次都變得更強。我完全預期2020年也會如此。

Now I'd like to turn the call over for Q&A.

現在我想把電話會議交給問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from the line of Nicola Tang with Exane.

（接線員指示）我們的第一個問題來自Exane的Nicola Tang。

The first one was on decaps. You had talked about a healthy pipeline of potential opportunities. And I know that Air Liquide and Air Products had something similar. So I was just wondering if you could update us in a little bit more detail about what your pipeline might look like and also help us to size the potential opportunity in terms of capital that could be deployed? Again, understanding that it could be on a sort of longer-term view.

第一個問題是關於decaps。你們曾談到有一個健康的潛在機會管線。我也知道Air Liquide和Air Products也有類似情況。所以我想請問，你們能否更詳細更新一下你們的管線可能長什麼樣子，並協助我們估算在可部署資本方面的潛在機會規模？同樣地，我理解這可能是較長期的觀點。

And then my second question would be on -- you mentioned, Matt, that potential scope for additional efficiency measures that you guys are delivering very well on that. Can you put that in the context of your original cost synergy target, the $900 million? And I was wondering whether shorter term with COVID, that you've seen any temporary savings, for example, travel cost savings, which you would expect to reverse?

第二個問題是關於——你提到，Matt，你們在交付額外效率措施方面有潛在空間，而且執行得非常好。你能否把這放在你們原先成本協同目標9億美元的脈絡下說明？另外我也想問，短期內在COVID之下，你們是否看到任何暫時性的節省，例如差旅成本節省，而你們預期之後會回升？

Okay. Well, I'll take the decap and since you gave the second question to Matt, I'll let him handle that one. Or we could have given it to Juan or anybody, but I'll let Matt take that one.

好的。我會回答decap的部分；既然你把第二個問題給了Matt，我就讓他來處理。或者我們也可以交給Juan或任何人，但我就讓Matt來回答。

So yes, on the decap, there is -- we have a list of projects. The pipeline itself, you could describe as fairly healthy. But then again, the pace is very slow. And that's not unusual. You have customers that are always evaluating their cash flow positions and their needs as you're going through these discussions with them. I expect we'll get some to ground, but it's not going to be a large number, I don't think, and I don't think it's going to be a large number anytime soon. We'll do the projects that make sense for us. You've heard me say this before that the last thing I want to do is be a lender of last resort. So we'll maintain our capital discipline and our return criteria as we work through this. But it's just going to -- it's going to take some time, and that's just the way it is.

所以，是的，關於decap，我們——我們有一份專案清單。就管線本身而言，你可以說相當健康。但同時，推進速度非常慢。而這並不罕見。在與客戶討論的過程中，客戶總是在評估其現金流狀況與需求。我預期會有一些專案落地，但我認為數量不會很多，而且短期內也不會很多。我們會做對我們有意義的專案。你以前也聽我說過，我最不想做的就是成為最後貸款人。因此，我們在推進過程中會維持資本紀律與報酬標準。但這就是——這需要一些時間，事情就是如此。

Nicola, in as far as your second question, yes, I'll start with, to your point, the $900 million, as you recall, on the cost side, was the target we had laid out there to be achieved over approximately a 3-year period post the merger date.

Nicola，關於你的第二個問題，是的，我先從你提到的9億美元開始。你還記得，在成本端，那是我們提出的目標，預計在合併日後約3年的期間內達成。

As we've stated in the past, the more we integrate, the less, frankly, we're able to differentiate between what was considered a true merger synergy and what is just simply being more efficient and productive on how we're running this combined business. So frankly, on an internal basis, we really stopped spending significant effort trying to differentiate between the 2. And we're much more focused on just trying to find ways to be more efficient and productive operating as one combined company. So to that degree, where we really look is more how are operating margins progressing? How is our growth in profit progressing? And how is our growth in cash progressing? There are obviously a lot of other metrics around that, like Steve had mentioned, SG&A as a percentage of sales, what the headcount trends are, how our efficiency for headcount trends. So we look at those as well. But in the end of the day, I want to see margin expansions. I want to see growth in cash, and I want to see growth in profits irrespective of what we're seeing on the volume side. I think this quarter, we've demonstrated that fairly well. I think last quarter, we've demonstrated that fairly well. And we continue to find even more opportunities every day, as I mentioned. So we're looking at the end of the day to continue to find ways to improve the quality of this business while levering every bit of sales dollar we can to add value. So that's how we'll think about it going forward, and that's how we're going to continue to measure it.

如同我們過去所說，整合越深入，坦白說，我們就越難區分哪些是所謂真正的併購協同效益，哪些只是我們在經營這家合併後企業時變得更有效率、更具生產力。因此，坦白說，在內部層面，我們已不再投入大量精力去區分這兩者。我們更專注於找出方法，讓我們以一家合併後公司的方式運作時更有效率、更具生產力。所以在這個程度上，我們真正關注的是：營業利益率如何進展？獲利成長如何進展？現金成長如何進展？當然還有許多其他相關指標，例如Steve提到的，銷售與管理費用（SG&A）占銷售額的比例、人力編制趨勢、以及人力效率的趨勢。我們也會看這些。但歸根結底，我想看到的是利潤率擴張、現金成長，以及不論銷量端如何變化都能實現的獲利成長。我認為本季我們相當好地展現了這點；上季也展現得相當好。而且如我所說，我們每天仍持續找到更多機會。因此，最終我們的目標是持續找方法提升這項業務的品質，同時盡可能運用每一分銷售收入來創造價值。這就是我們未來的思考方式，也是我們將持續衡量的方式。

Maybe I could sneak in just a quick follow-up one on the cash flow side. As you mentioned, very strong operating cash conversion, and you've talked about resuming the buyback. Would you, at this point, be able to commit or give us a steer on how much you expect to buy back through the remainder of the year, assuming that on the decaps opportunity side, that these are now much more longer term?

也許我可以就現金流再追問一個很快的問題。你提到營運現金轉換非常強勁，也談到恢復回購。就目前而言，假設decaps機會現在更偏長期，你們是否能承諾或給我們一些指引，說明你們預期在今年剩餘期間會回購多少？

Yes. And sorry, Nicola, just to answer your last question, which I forgot. I failed to mention on the temporary savings with COVID. As you would expect with everyone, we clearly saw a large reduction in travel. I think that's consistent universally. But what I would say is that the vast majority of savings, as Steve mentioned, that we saw this quarter, we expect to retain and maintain a lot of them. So I'm not anticipating any significant shift in that. So that's something we expect going forward, irrespective of the smaller temporary ones.

是的。抱歉，Nicola，先回答你最後一個問題，我剛剛忘了提到COVID期間的暫時性節省。如你所料，和所有人一樣，我們確實看到差旅大幅減少。我想這在各處都一致。但我要說的是，正如Steve提到的，我們本季看到的節省中，絕大多數我們預期都能保留並維持。因此我不預期會有任何顯著變化。這是我們未來預期會持續的情況，不論那些較小的暫時性節省如何。

On the cash flow related to the buybacks, yes, we'll be back in the market. As we have been, we'll be a participant as you saw this quarter, we did reduce our net debt again. So we'll continue to use it as per our capital allocation policy that any excess cash that we have after our priorities of growing the dividend and growing the business, we will use in the opportunities to repurchase our stock. And obviously, if there are market corrections, we'll take opportunity in there as well, like we did in Q1. So that's kind of how we're going to continue to manage it and measure it. And as you know, this is all underpinned by our target credit rating of a single A. So we'll work within those confines and be back in the market.

關於與回購相關的現金流，是的，我們會回到市場。如同以往，我們會參與其中；正如你在本季看到的，我們再次降低了淨負債。因此，我們將依照資本配置政策持續運用：在我們優先事項——提高股利與發展業務——之後的任何超額現金，我們將用於回購本公司股票的機會。當然，如果市場出現修正，我們也會把握機會，就像我們在第一季所做的那樣。這大致就是我們將如何持續管理與衡量。你也知道，這一切都以我們單A的目標信用評等為基礎。因此我們會在這些限制範圍內運作，並回到市場。

Our next question comes from the line of Duffy Fischer with Barclays.

我們的下一個問題來自 Barclays 的 Duffy Fischer。

Yes, great. Thanks a lot for the views on the new hydrogen. So maybe just kind of a 3-part follow-up to that. First, over like the next 5 years, what do you see as the premium for green hydrogen versus blue hydrogen versus gray hydrogen? Second, as you guys run the most electrolysis units globally, what has your cost done in that space, let's say, over the last 3 years as a baseline? And then what do you have line of sight for your costs doing over the next 3?

是的，很好。非常感謝你們對新氫能的看法。所以我想就此做一個大概三個部分的追問。第一，在未來大約 5 年內，你們認為綠氫相對於藍氫與灰氫的溢價會是多少？第二，既然你們在全球運行最多的電解設備，你們在這個領域的成本（以過去 3 年作為基準）變化如何？第三，你們對未來 3 年的成本走勢有什麼可見度？

And then the third one is because it's such a big market, could you see yourself doing something aspirational? Maybe a couple of billion dollars of build it and they'll come investment that doesn't have the same surety that the historic model has had?

第三個問題是，因為這是一個非常大的市場，你們是否可能做一些更具願景的事情？例如投入幾十億美元那種「先建了再說、需求自然會來」的投資，而不像過去的模式那樣具有同等程度的確定性？

Okay, Duffy. That's 3 well-prepared questions. So I think the way you need to think about green hydrogen, and keep in mind, you have the -- you've got the renewable power costs, you have the production costs coming out of electrolysis, you have the distribution cost, you have the cost at the pump if you're thinking about mobility. So there's a whole chain of cost here that need to come down, and I said 50% to 60%. If you were to call green hydrogen today coming off electrolysis $6, and so there has to be an assumption about renewable power cost to get to the $6. But if you say $6, you're making -- with $2 to $3 natural gas, you're making gray hydrogen for $1. So there's a tremendous gap today that it would take hundreds of dollars of carbon tax or carbon price if you wanted to wipe out that entire difference, so it's a big premium to date. That's why I said the costs need to come down, the production cost across the entire chain. At the same time, there needs to be a carbon price to incent the scaling up of green hydrogen. It's the same thing that happened with solar power and wind power, if you go back and look at the early days. Everybody said the costs are through the roof, we can't afford it. But there were subsidies. There were incentives that were put in place that allowed it to scale up and come down the cost curve. So that's the same thing we need to have happen here. And it's going to take some years to do that. We and others are obviously working on that as we speak. I can see plans. I've reviewed plans that show how that can be done. So I think we just need to kind of wait and see how long it's ultimately going to take. But I think in a few years, the cost will come down quite a bit, but we need to get it down, like I said, 50% to 60% across the entire value chain.

好的，Duffy。這三個問題準備得很充分。我認為你需要這樣看待綠氫：請記住，你有——你有再生能源電力成本，你有電解製氫的生產成本，你有配送成本，如果你在談交通運輸，還有加氫站端的成本。所以這裡有一整條成本鏈需要下降，而我說的是要下降 50% 到 60%。如果你把今天從電解出來的綠氫稱作每公斤 6 美元，那麼要達到這個 6 美元就必須對再生能源電力成本做出某些假設。但如果你說是 6 美元，在天然氣 2 到 3 美元的情況下，你可以用 1 美元做出灰氫。所以目前差距非常大；如果你想完全抹平這個差距，就需要數百美元的碳稅或碳價，因此到目前為止溢價很高。這就是為什麼我說成本需要下降，整條鏈的生產成本都要下降。同時，也需要碳價來激勵綠氫擴大規模。這和太陽能、風能早期發生的事情一樣；如果你回頭看早期，大家都說成本高得離譜、負擔不起。但當時有補貼，有激勵措施，使其得以擴大規模並沿著成本曲線下降。所以我們在這裡也需要同樣的事情發生。而這需要一些年時間。我們和其他公司顯然正在推進。我可以看到一些計畫，我也審閱過一些計畫，顯示這是可以做到的。所以我認為我們需要稍微等待並觀察最終需要多久。但我認為在幾年內成本會下降不少，不過我們必須把整個價值鏈的成本降下來，如我所說，降幅要達到 50% 到 60%。

As far as what we may or may not do, I mean, we're looking at projects today around the world. I could give you a number. It's like 100 types of projects. Their slotting are very small. Some of them are sale of equipment, small sale of equipment. Some of them are like projects that we announced in China and Alstom recently. Some are a little bigger. But we're very comfortable with the types of activities that we have, the locations that we have them in. It's like 16 countries that are involved in 100-plus types of projects. So that really is our strategy. That has been our strategy. We're very comfortable with that approach. I'm not saying I would never do a much larger project, but I'd have to be very confident in terms of -- that's just a good investment that will pass all the muster that we always put large project investments through.

至於我們可能會或不會做什麼，我是說，我們目前正在全球各地看一些專案。我可以給你一個數字，大概有 100 種類型的專案。它們的規模分布非常小。有些是設備銷售、小型設備銷售。有些像我們最近在中國以及與 Alstom 公布的專案。有些稍微大一點。但我們對我們所從事的活動類型、以及它們所在的地點都非常放心。大概有 16 個國家參與了 100 多種專案。所以這確實就是我們的策略，也一直是我們的策略。我們對這種做法非常有信心。我不是說我永遠不會做一個更大型的專案，但我必須非常有把握——那會是一項好的投資，並且能通過我們一向對大型專案投資所做的所有嚴格審查。

Okay. And then just off one of Matt's comments where if June numbers kind of stayed through Q3, you'd be at the upper end to beating the guide for Q3. Does that imply that you guys see somewhat of a double dip happening in Q3 and things could weaken? Or can you talk about July and what you're seeing?

好的。然後接著 Matt 的一個評論，如果 6 月的數字在第三季都維持下去，你們就會落在第三季指引的上緣甚至超越。這是否意味著你們認為第三季可能會出現某種「二次下滑」，情況可能轉弱？或者你能談談 7 月以及你們看到的狀況嗎？

Yes. So that is what Matt said. If I look at July's numbers today, I would say it's probably slightly better than June. But then again, you got to keep in mind, we don't really know what's going to happen. I read yesterday that COVID is back on the main -- on the continent of Europe. We all know what's happening in Latin America. You can read about what's happening in the South and West, back in Australia. So I don't really know what the consequence of that's going to be. I don't know how governments are going to respond to that this time. Are we going to go back into something like what we saw in March and April and May? We don't know the answer to that. So it's a possibility. It hasn't happened as of today, but it's certainly a possibility. And we have to make sure that we say we're cautious in our guidance, and that's what's behind the caution.

是的。這就是 Matt 說的。如果我看今天的 7 月數字，我會說可能比 6 月略好一些。但話說回來，你必須記住，我們其實不知道接下來會發生什麼。我昨天看到報導說 COVID 又回到——又回到歐洲大陸成為主要議題。我們都知道拉丁美洲正在發生什麼。你也可以讀到澳洲南部和西部正在發生什麼。所以我真的不知道這會帶來什麼後果。我不知道這次各國政府會如何回應。我們會不會回到像 3 月、4 月、5 月那樣的情況？我們不知道答案。所以這是一種可能性。到今天為止還沒有發生，但確實有可能。我們必須確保在指引中表達我們的謹慎，而這就是謹慎背後的原因。

And our next question comes from the line of David Begleiter with Deutsche Bank.

我們的下一個問題來自 Deutsche Bank 的 David Begleiter。

Steve and Matt, just on FX, if you were to mark to market today's spot rates, what would that imply for your Q3 and full year guidance in terms of upside?

Steve 和 Matt，關於外匯（FX），如果你們以今天的即期匯率按市價重估，對你們第三季與全年指引的上行空間會有什麼含意？

David, yes, this is Matt. So as you saw, we have a 3% assumption now. Q3 would get better by a couple of percent potentially based on spots. As you know, that's an assumption based on spots, but it could get better by almost 2%. And the full year number would be knocked probably in half as well on that. So time will tell, we'll see. That was based on really yesterday's spots, but every day is a different day, as you know.

David，是的，我是 Matt。正如你看到的，我們現在的假設是 3%。基於即期匯率，第三季可能會改善幾個百分點。你也知道，那是基於即期的假設，但可能會改善接近 2%。全年數字大概也會因此減少一半左右。時間會告訴我們結果，我們再看看。那是基本上以昨天的即期匯率為基礎，但如你所知，每一天都不一樣。

Very good. And Steve, just again on hydrogen, are you indifferent to gray, blue or green hydrogen? And if you look over the next perhaps 10 years, how much of your project CapEx could you foresee putting towards hydrogen opportunities?

很好。Steve，再回到氫能，你對灰氫、藍氫或綠氫是否無差別？另外，如果看未來大約 10 年，你預期你們的專案資本支出（CapEx）中，有多少比例可能會投入到氫能機會？

Well, you're asking me. So I want to be a provider of what the market wants. As I said, there are certain countries around the world today that are building their hydrogen economies first, their hydrogen mobility economy, for example. Using gray, they'll transition to green later on.

嗯，你是在問我。所以我希望成為市場需要什麼就提供什麼的供應商。正如我說的，當今世界上有些國家正在先建立他們的氫能經濟，例如氫能交通運輸經濟。他們會先用灰氫，之後再轉向綠氫。

I think, look, I mean, at the right cost, green is going to be preferable for everybody. But you've got to get there first. And that's why we think natural gas is going to still play a role. I mean, we have a $2 billion business today that's essentially all based on natural gas, so natural gas will continue to play a role. Blue will make sense in locations where you have, say, low-cost natural gas and you have the ability to capture the CO2 and do something with it, say, make downstream chemical products with the CO2 or you have the right geological formation to sequester it in the ground. If those types of situations are present, then you could see what they call blue, which is basically capturing CO2 off of the gray hydrogen production process. But I think everyone would like to get to green. I just think it's going to take some years to get to that point.

我認為，坦白說，在成本合適的情況下，綠氫會是大家都更偏好的選項。但你必須先走到那一步。這也是為什麼我們認為天然氣仍將扮演角色。我是說，我們今天有一個 20 億美元的業務基本上完全建立在天然氣之上，所以天然氣會繼續扮演角色。藍氫在某些地點會有意義，例如你有低成本天然氣，並且有能力捕捉 CO2 並加以利用，例如用 CO2 製造下游化學產品，或是你有合適的地質構造可以把它封存到地下。如果具備這些條件，那你就可能看到所謂的藍氫，基本上就是在灰氫生產流程中捕捉 CO2。但我認為每個人都希望走向綠氫。我只是認為要到那個點還需要一些年。

Regarding CapEx, I mean, if I look at the list of 100 projects we have today, there's probably maybe a couple hundred -- a couple billion dollars -- I'm sorry, a couple billion dollars of CapEx that's kind of been assigned to these projects. Some of them, we have to wait and see whether they're going to move forward or not. But clearly, if I said 100 and some projects, and if I gave you a number, like a couple billion dollars of CapEx earmarked around those numbers, that wouldn't be surprising. But we have to see how fast they move and at what rate we end up spending against those projects.

關於資本支出（CapEx），我的意思是，如果我看我們今天這 100 個專案的清單，可能有幾百——幾十億美元——抱歉，是幾十億美元的 CapEx 已經大致分配到這些專案上。其中一些我們還得觀察它們是否會推進。但很明顯，如果我說有 100 多個專案，並且給你一個數字，比如有幾十億美元的 CapEx 針對這些專案做了預留，那並不令人意外。但我們必須看它們推進的速度，以及我們最終以什麼節奏在這些專案上投入支出。

Our next question comes from the line of Peter Clark with SocGen.

我們的下一個問題來自 SocGen 的 Peter Clark。

I've got 2 as well. The first one, obviously, if I go back to the last recession, I know it's slightly different this time. But you had your earnings flat when you were at Praxair. Linde had an earnings hit because of engineering, but gas is actually was flat on EBITDA. So I look at the difference this time. Obviously, you're delivering on the gas as we expected that engineering is the standout. So I'm just wondering if you can give me your thoughts on the quality of this engineering business you have now. Probably give us what you thought coming in because it has been outstanding, I think, in the past 2 years.

我也有兩個問題。第一個，顯然，如果我回顧上一輪衰退，我知道這次略有不同。但你在 Praxair 的時候，獲利是持平的。Linde 因為工程業務而使獲利受到衝擊，但氣體業務在 EBITDA 層面其實是持平的。所以我看這次的差異。顯然，你們在氣體業務的表現如我們預期，而工程業務是最突出的。因此我想請你談談你們現在這個工程業務的品質。也許可以分享一下你們當初接手時的看法，因為我認為過去兩年它的表現非常出色。

And then effectively, if I look at some of them all -- well, I would call them peripheral markets, very important markets for you, certainly, places like Brazil, Mexico and even Australia. How these businesses are performing? You have dominant shares, great businesses to begin with. I think you found a lot more to do in Australia, for example. But obviously, Brazil still has the challenges with COVID or bigger challenges, just about these more peripheral markets that we get less meaningful on.

然後實際上，如果我看一些——嗯，我會稱之為周邊市場，對你們來說是非常重要的市場，當然像巴西、墨西哥，甚至澳洲這些地方。這些業務表現如何？你們在那裡有主導市占，一開始就是很好的業務。我想例如在澳洲，你們發現還有更多可以做的事。但顯然，巴西仍然面臨 COVID 的挑戰或更大的挑戰，想請你談談這些我們較少深入了解的周邊市場。

Yes, okay. So the first question on Linde Engineering and nominally speaking, it's a much smaller percent of Linde today than it was of the old Linde AG. It's probably -- if I go back, look, about 5% of the EBITDA of our company is Linde Engineering. So it can't swing us too much one way or the other. But it is doing quite well. The team is executing very well. They have -- a lot of this is picking the right projects over the years in addition to executing well. A lot of this is they have more gas projects to work on, so we're able to leverage their cost infrastructure much better by adding the Praxair sale of gas to the equation. If I look at their backlog today, they probably have close to 2 years of backlog in front of them to continue to execute, and that's a pretty good place to be. I don't have the order pipeline. I'm not looking at that right now. But the orders clearly are less than the sales for Q2, so but there are orders coming in. There are projects they're working on. I wouldn't say they're mammoth projects today because a lot of those customers are cautious, as you imagine. But certainly, electronics-type projects. They're working on those. They're working on a lot of smaller projects around, say, paper projects. As you know, South America, you mentioned that as very advantaged in paper, working on other types of projects, so there is work coming in. There is a healthy backlog. I think they'll continue to do pretty well. But if we're sitting here 2 years from now and the backlog is a lot lower, then we'll have something to address. But we're very conscious too of our cost and making sure that we're managing costs very carefully as we're looking at the order pipeline, and then we work out these big projects.

好的。第一個問題關於 Linde Engineering。就名目上而言，它在今日 Linde 的占比，比在舊 Linde AG 時期小得多。大概——如果我回頭看，大約我們公司 EBITDA 的 5% 來自 Linde Engineering。所以它不至於讓我們的整體表現大幅往某一方向擺動。但它確實做得相當好。團隊執行得非常到位。他們——這其中很大一部分，除了執行良好之外，也在於多年來挑選了正確的專案。另一個重要因素是，他們有更多氣體相關專案可做，因此我們能透過把 Praxair 的售氣業務納入方程式，更好地槓桿化他們的成本基礎設施。若看他們目前的在手訂單（backlog），大概接近未來 2 年的工作量可供持續執行，這是個相當不錯的位置。我手上沒有訂單管線（order pipeline）的資料，我現在也沒有在看。但很明顯，訂單量低於第二季的銷售額，不過仍有訂單進來，也有他們正在推進的專案。我不會說現在有那種巨型專案，因為如你所想，很多客戶都很謹慎。但像電子相關的專案，他們正在做；也在做很多較小型的專案，例如紙業專案。你提到南美洲，大家都知道那裡在紙業方面很有優勢，他們也在做其他類型的專案，所以確實有工作進來。在手訂單健康，我認為他們會繼續表現不錯。但如果兩年後我們坐在這裡，發現 backlog 低很多，那我們就需要處理。不過我們也非常注意成本，確保在看訂單管線並推進這些大型專案時，能非常謹慎地管理成本。

You mentioned Brazil, Mexico and Australia. If you look at South America, clearly, they're dealing with COVID, but it seems like they're always dealing with something in South America. But when I look at their operating margins coming out of Q2, they're at 20%, probably not many companies operating in South America that are running at a 20% kind of operating margin rate. Mexico has always been a good country for us. We have a very strong presence as we do in Brazil, and we're able to use that to our advantage.

你提到巴西、墨西哥和澳洲。若看南美洲，顯然他們正在應對 COVID，但看起來南美洲總是在應對某些事情。不過當我看他們第二季出來的營業利益率，大約是 20%；在南美洲運營、能跑出 20% 左右營業利益率的公司，可能不多。墨西哥一直是我們很好的國家。我們在那裡有非常強的布局，就像在巴西一樣，而我們也能把這些優勢轉化為成果。

In Australia, I talked about in earlier calls, Australia has been on a nice glide path in terms of improving the quality of their business. I'm very pleased with the results that we've been seeing there. And I think they continue to do a good job in Australia.

在澳洲，我在先前的電話會議中談過，澳洲在提升其業務品質方面一直走在一條良好的改善軌道上。我對我們在那裡看到的結果非常滿意，我認為他們在澳洲會持續做得很好。

And our next question comes from the line of Bob Koort with Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自 Goldman Sachs 的 Bob Koort。

Steve, I wanted to ask a hydrogen question. And I guess it's maybe broad, but how do you insert yourself into that ecosystem and how do you get paid? Is it an equipment model, is it a sale of gas model? And a big driver for green to ever come about is a dramatic drop in energy prices. So how do you get aligned with the energy providers, electricity providers or do you not worry about that? It just seems like maybe a much different business model than what you've traditionally done in large-scale gas. So how do you get paid? What's your secret sauce?

Steve，我想問一個氫能的問題。我想這可能比較廣泛：你們如何把自己嵌入那個生態系，並且如何獲得報酬？是設備模式、還是售氣模式？而綠氫要真正成形的一個重大驅動因素，是能源價格大幅下降。所以你們如何與能源供應商、電力供應商對齊？還是你們不需要擔心？這看起來可能是與你們傳統大型氣體業務很不同的商業模式。那你們怎麼賺錢？你們的核心優勢（secret sauce）是什麼？

Well, I'd say we're going to be participating both ways. I mean, for example, we sell hydrogen refueling stations today. We've been doing that, but we're also providing as part of a package offering. If you look at the 2 announcements that we made in China, for example, one is partnering with the largest green power supplier in China. And we're going to be providing hydrogen refueling stations. We're going to be providing a PEM electrolyzer and we're going to be providing hydrogen by the molecule. So that's what the nature of that venture is. But here, we're kind of partnering with somebody different than we might have in the past. It's a renewable power supplier. And this is to provide green hydrogen to buses that are going to be operating around Beijing, going to the Great Wall and all of that.

我會說我們會以兩種方式參與。舉例來說，我們今天就有在賣加氫站，我們一直在做這件事，但我們也會把它作為整體方案的一部分來提供。比如看我們在中國做的兩項公告，其中一項是與中國最大的綠電供應商合作。我們將提供加氫站、提供 PEM 電解槽，並且以分子形式供應氫氣。所以這就是那個合資/合作案的性質。但在這裡，我們算是與過去可能不同的夥伴合作——也就是再生能源電力供應商。這是為了向將在北京周邊運行、前往長城等地的巴士提供綠氫。

And then you've got a project in the south where we have had a JV actually with CNOOC on the industrial gases side for some time. They want to branch out and do hydrogen for mobility. So we're taking the hydrogen off the refinery, we'll clean it up. We'll pipe it to some hydrogen refueling stations we're providing, and we'll kind of build up that market. But that will be a typical sale of gas business model as well.

另外在南方還有一個專案，我們其實早就與中海油（CNOOC）在工業氣體業務方面有一家合資公司。他們希望延伸到交通移動用氫能。因此我們會從煉油廠取得氫氣，把它淨化處理，透過管線輸送到我們所提供的一些加氫站，並逐步建立起那個市場。而這也會是典型的售氣商業模式。

So predominantly, sale of gas, that's currently going to be -- certainly is what we're interested in, but there will be some SOE type of sales. And I think you correctly pointed out, Bob, that renewable power is a big part of providing green hydrogen. So the scaling up of wind and solar is going to be key to getting green hydrogen cost down to a point where you close the gap versus conventional. And we can only assist in that so much. But certainly, that's a key part of that. And as I said earlier, hydrogen is seen as an enabler to renewable power because one of the issues with renewable power, as everyone knows, it's not as reliable. The wind doesn't always blow, the sun doesn't always shine. But hydrogen can be a storage mechanism for energy. And so that's why green hydrogen can actually play a role in helping enable the growth of renewable power. So some of that remains to be seen how all that's going to play out, but that's where a lot of the focus is today.

所以以售氣為主，這目前將會——當然也是我們感興趣的方向，但也會有一些 SOE 類型的銷售。我想你說得很對，Bob，再生能源電力是提供綠氫的重要一環。因此風電與太陽能的規模化擴張，將是把綠氫成本降到能縮小與傳統方式差距的關鍵。我們能在這方面協助的程度有限，但這確實是其中的關鍵部分。正如我先前所說，氫被視為再生能源電力的促成者，因為再生能源電力的一個問題——大家都知道——是可靠性較低：風不一定一直吹、太陽不一定一直照。但氫可以作為能量的儲存機制。因此綠氫其實可以在協助推動再生能源電力成長方面扮演角色。這些將如何發展仍有待觀察，但這就是目前很多焦點所在。

And Bob, this is Matt. Just to maybe add to Steve's point. As far as your question also on aligning with power providers, as you know, we're one of the largest power purchasers in the world today. We purchase terawatts of power and we've actively been working for many years already to improve our renewable energy portfolio. In fact, we recently got it from 35% up to 38% in this year-to-date. So this has been something that is not new for us. It's something we've been doing for a long, long time. And given that experience, given our local relationships with all of these power producers around the world, it does give us an opportunity to leverage that in helping make this a more successful for green hydrogen, and we're able to connect our technologies and engineering and local presence with these purchased opportunities that we already have today in the relationships.

Bob，我是 Matt。補充一下 Steve 的觀點。關於你提到與電力供應商對齊的問題，如你所知，我們目前是全球最大的電力採購方之一。我們採購以太瓦（terawatts）計的電力，而且多年來一直積極改善我們的再生能源組合。事實上，我們最近把今年迄今的比例從 35% 提升到 38%。所以這對我們來說不是新事物，而是我們做了很長、很長時間的事情。憑藉這些經驗，以及我們與全球各地電力生產商的在地關係，確實讓我們有機會加以槓桿運用，協助讓綠氫更成功；我們也能把我們的技術、工程能力與在地布局，與我們今天既有的採購機會與關係連結起來。

Got it. That's helpful. And I'm going to say it's a nice relief to talk about something that's not pandemic-related lately. But on that regard, for my second question, just curious, maybe in the aerospace business or in the hospitality CO2 business, is there any risk that you might need to take an impairment on those businesses given these fundamental changes in how those businesses are doing or the customers of those businesses?

了解。這很有幫助。而且我得說，最近能聊點不是跟疫情相關的事情，真是讓人鬆一口氣。不過就這點而言，我的第二個問題是想請教一下：也許在航太業務或餐旅業的 CO2 業務方面，鑑於這些業務的營運方式或其客戶所面臨的根本性變化，是否存在你們可能需要對這些業務認列減損的風險？

Bob, I'm Matt. This is Matt. No concerns there whatsoever. I mean the aerospace business book value is actually quite, quite low. We still generate good profits. And as you can imagine, that PST business is really 3 businesses in one. It's an aviation, it has an industrial, and then it has an energy that works on things like industrial gas turbines and other forms of more energy efficiencies. So all 3 businesses continue to operate. This is actually an opportunity for us to consolidate some sites, and they're taking appropriate actions in light of the new environment. And that has always been a very, very well-run business. So there are no concerns there. And similarly, on the hospitality CO2 business, remember, that is a high-rent business. So we still continue to get rent on the restaurants that continue to either operate or will come back and operate again. So while the volumes on Page 17 for food and beverage were down 9%, and that's the CO2 volumes, to your point, primarily into the hospitality sector, the rent continues. So this business actually is performing quite well in light of what's going on. And then a rebound, obviously, would be upside. So no concerns on either whatsoever.

Bob，我是 Matt。這是 Matt。完全沒有任何這方面的疑慮。我的意思是，航太業務的帳面價值其實非常、非常低。我們仍然能產生不錯的獲利。而且如你所想像的，那個 PST 業務其實是一個業務裡包含三個業務：有航空、有工業，還有能源，涵蓋像工業燃氣渦輪機以及其他提升能源效率的領域。所以這三個業務都持續在運作。這其實是我們整併一些據點的機會，他們也正因應新環境採取適當行動。而那一直是一個管理得非常、非常好的業務，所以完全沒有疑慮。同樣地，在餐旅 CO2 業務方面，請記得那是一個高租金（high-rent）的業務。因此，我們仍持續向那些仍在營運、或將會恢復營運的餐廳收取租金。所以雖然第 17 頁食品與飲料的量下滑了 9%——那是 CO2 的銷量——如你所說，主要流向餐旅產業，但租金仍在持續。因此，在目前情況下，這項業務其實表現相當不錯。而且一旦反彈，顯然就是上行空間。所以兩者都完全沒有任何疑慮。

And our next question comes from the line of Vincent Andrews with Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自 Morgan Stanley 的 Vincent Andrews。

I think you mentioned that there were some project delays in the backlog, which I suppose is to be expected in the current environment and that you were seeing some compensation for that. Can you just give us a sense of how substantial those projects were and the delays? And how is that compensation accounted for in your financial results?

我想你提到在積壓訂單（backlog）中有一些專案延遲，在目前環境下這大概也是可預期的，而且你們也看到一些補償。你能否讓我們了解一下這些專案的規模以及延遲的程度有多大？另外，這些補償在你們的財務結果中是如何入帳的？

Well, the compensation -- I mean, it can happen in various ways. We could be compensation-ed upfront in terms of project delays with cash compensation or it can be built into the final price. Usually, you would find it built into the final price. So we end up with at least the same IRR, if not higher, after we go through the negotiations around the delay. Our contractual language protects us very clearly in terms of -- we commit to a date. If that date gets delayed, then there has to be compensation to compensate us for that. So that's how it's addressed and usually, you would see it in the higher revenues, margins and cash flow because of the delay to compensate for any changes that we would see.

嗯，補償——我的意思是，它可能以各種方式發生。我們可能會就專案延遲在前期以現金補償的方式收到補償，或者也可能被納入最終價格。通常你會看到它被納入最終價格。因此，在就延遲進行協商之後，我們最終至少能達到相同的 IRR（內部報酬率），甚至更高。我們的合約條款在這方面對我們有非常清楚的保障——我們承諾一個日期；如果那個日期被延後，就必須有補償來補償我們。因此就是這樣處理的；而且通常你會在更高的營收、毛利率與現金流中看到它，因為延遲所帶來的補償會反映在其中，以抵銷我們可能看到的任何變化。

Okay. And just maybe just a follow-up on the repurchases and the guidance. I assume there's very little, if any, repurchases in the third quarter guidance and perhaps some in the full year, but probably very little. Is that correct?

好的。再追問一下庫藏股回購與財測。我猜第三季財測中幾乎沒有、如果有的話也非常少的回購；而全年可能會有一些，但應該也很少。這樣理解對嗎？

Yes. Vincent, this is Matt. We tend not to put too much of this in the forecast just because, as you know, it's also a time-weighted aspect. So depending upon when they're done at what point throughout, so we'll -- as I mentioned earlier to Nicola, we'll get back in the market post this call. We'll continue to be a participant. And then where we see opportunities, we'll take advantage of that. But right now, I wouldn't anticipate anything material affecting the share count at this stage.

是的。Vincent，我是 Matt。我們通常不會在預測中放太多這部分，因為如你所知，這也牽涉到時間加權的因素——取決於回購是在期間內什麼時點完成。所以——如我先前對 Nicola 提到的——我們會在這通電話之後回到市場上。我們會持續參與；然後在看到機會時，我們會加以把握。但就目前而言，我不預期在這個階段會有任何對流通股數造成重大影響的事項。

And our next question comes from the line of Mike Sison with Wells Fargo.

我們的下一個問題來自 Wells Fargo 的 Mike Sison。

Nice quarter. In terms of the volume improvement in June and July, was it pretty even through each of the segments or geographic regions?

這一季表現不錯。就 6 月與 7 月的銷量改善而言，各事業部門或各地理區域的改善幅度是否相當平均？

Well, I would say, as you know, this kind of all started in China first and then swept through the rest of Asia. That's why you had some effect from COVID certainly in Q2 as well as in Q1, Q1 China, Q2 more of the Southern part of Asia. It went to Europe first and then came to the Americas. And of course, we're still seeing some of that in the Americas. But if you were to look at something like China, we saw improvement through the quarter in terms of the merchant volume improvement. Our on-site business there has been very stable, quite strong actually, all the way back to the beginning. Certainly, you can look at Europe, you can see the improvement from April to May to June. If I look at the U.S. similarly, you can see the improvement from April to May to June. So really, I guess, I'd go back and answer your question pretty much across the board, you saw improvement from April to May to June.

嗯，我會說，如你所知，這一切最早是從中國開始，然後席捲亞洲其他地區。這也是為什麼你在第一季與第二季都看到 COVID 的影響：第一季主要在中國，第二季更多是在亞洲南部。接著先到歐洲，再到美洲。當然，我們在美洲仍然看到一些影響。但如果你看像中國這樣的市場，我們在該季內看到商用（merchant）銷量逐步改善。我們在當地的現場供氣（on-site）業務一直非常穩定，實際上相當強勁，從一開始就是如此。當然，你也可以看歐洲，會看到從 4 月到 5 月到 6 月的改善。如果我看美國也是一樣，你會看到從 4 月到 5 月到 6 月的改善。所以我想回到你的問題：基本上各方面都看到從 4 月到 5 月到 6 月的改善。

Got it. And then it sounds like Lincare continues to do well. Can you maybe talk about the returns? Has that improved markedly? And do you think that could be sustainable longer term?

了解。接著聽起來 Lincare 仍然表現很好。你能否談談報酬率？是否有顯著改善？你認為長期而言這種改善能否持續？

Yes, it's sustainable. In terms of the level of improvement, it's probably on the order of 1,000 basis points over a couple of years. So the business has been doing very well. We had put a lot of focus on improving the performance of that business, both in terms of improving the margins, lowering cost, but also in terms of CapEx management. We changed some of the compensation metrics around that. And clearly, Lincare is doing well in an environment like we have today, where they're an important second line of defense for the hospitals. They -- months ago, they would not have treated one COVID patient. Today, there are probably over 12,000 COVID patients that they're handling. The government, Medicare has come to the realization that working with us is very important to making sure that patients are transitioned quickly, that the treatment can be provided, whether it's COVID or other respiratory illnesses. And if they have 1.6 million patients in total, well over 1 million of those would be respiratory-type patients, so paperwork has been eliminated. We've been able to eliminate face-to-face requirements. That was some of the -- because it's a very document-intensive, paperwork-intensive kind of business whenever you're working with the government. But a lot of those more bureaucratic processes have been removed, streamlined, so we're able to operate effectively, and the business continues to perform quite well. And I expect that to continue.

是的，這是可持續的。就改善幅度而言，大概是在幾年內提升約 1,000 個基點。因此這項業務一直做得非常好。我們投入了很多心力來改善該業務的表現，包括提升利潤率、降低成本，也包括資本支出（CapEx）管理。我們也調整了部分與此相關的獎酬衡量指標。而且很明顯地，在像今天這樣的環境下，Lincare 表現良好，因為他們是醫院重要的第二道防線。——幾個月前，他們不會治療任何一位 COVID 病患。今天，他們正在照護的 COVID 病患可能已超過 12,000 人。政府與 Medicare 已經意識到，與我們合作對於確保病患能快速轉銜、並能提供治療（不論是 COVID 或其他呼吸道疾病）非常重要。若他們總共有 160 萬名病患，其中超過 100 萬名是呼吸道類型病患，那麼文書作業已被取消。我們也能取消面對面要求。這些原本是——因為只要與政府合作，這是一個非常文件密集、文書密集的業務。但許多較官僚的流程已被移除並加以精簡，因此我們能有效運作，而該業務也持續表現相當不錯。我預期這會持續下去。

And our next question comes from the line of Jeff Zekauskas with JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自 JPMorgan 的 Jeff Zekauskas。

I think I can put my 2 questions in one. Is the Singapore coal gasification -- Singapore gasification project for 2023 still on schedule? Or has it been delayed? And secondly, you said that it's difficult to distinguish your cost reduction efforts from merger efforts. Do you have any margin targets of any kind, maybe your SG&A ratio or your EBIT margin or your EBITDA margin?

我想我可以把兩個問題合併成一個。新加坡煤氣化——新加坡氣化專案在 2023 年是否仍按進度進行？還是已經延遲？第二，你提到很難區分你們的降本努力與併購整合的努力。你們是否有任何形式的利潤率目標，例如 SG&A 比率、EBIT 利潤率或 EBITDA 利潤率？

Well, regarding -- Jeff, regarding -- and I -- this doesn't come as any surprise. As we look at cost, to me a dollar cost is a dollar cost. I do look at total cash fixed cost as a percent of sales. That's something I always look at. I look at every RBU around the world, regional business unit. There's 20-some, and I always look at it in terms of what do I think the appropriate cost structure should be given the type of business that they are in. And then, of course, we always demand efficiency year-over-year. That's what a lot of our productivity projects are about. But I'll let Matt can come back and answer this question as far as other metrics. But that's what I look at very closely, and that's how we drive operating margins along with the normal productivity pipeline and pricing.

嗯，關於——Jeff，關於——而且我——這應該不令人意外。當我們看成本時，對我而言，一美元的成本就是一美元的成本。我確實會看總現金固定成本占銷售額的百分比，這是我一直會看的指標。我會看全球每一個 RBU（區域事業單位），大概有二十幾個，我總是從他們所處的業務類型出發，去看我認為適當的成本結構應該是什麼。然後，當然，我們也一直要求逐年提升效率。這就是我們許多生產力專案的核心。但至於其他指標，我會讓 Matt 回來回答。不過這是我非常密切關注的重點，也是我們如何在正常的生產力管線與定價之外，推動營業利潤率的方式。

With respect to any specific project, I would rather not comment on that because you have to keep in mind their customers on the end of all of these things, and I would rather they lead with any commentary regarding delays.

至於任何特定專案，我寧可不予評論，因為你必須記得，所有這些事情的最終端都有客戶，而我寧可讓他們先就任何延遲發表評論。

Okay. And I can pick up to Steve's point a little more, Jeff, on the margin. So I would answer it, thinking about it this way. So first, let's think about on an external benchmarking basis. Clearly and historically, there has been demonstration, and I'll talk to operating margins, which I think is an important metric of how we think about it. EBITDA margins, I'm less interested in. The primary reason is because, as you know, EBITDA includes the equity income of affiliates. And that is 100% margin every time because it's not consolidated. There are no revenues. So that is just a function of how structures and ownership structures, but it really doesn't speak to quality at all. So operating margin is where I focus, that's my effort, and that's what I think is the most important of the profitability ratios.

好的。Jeff，我也可以再延伸一下 Steve 關於利潤率的觀點。我會用這樣的方式來回答。首先，從外部同業基準比較的角度來看，顯然且在歷史上已經有所證明——我會談營業利潤率，我認為這是我們思考此事的一個重要指標。至於 EBITDA 利潤率，我比較不那麼關注。主要原因是，如你所知，EBITDA 包含關聯企業的權益法收益。而那每次都是 100% 的利潤率，因為它沒有併入合併報表；沒有營收。所以那只是結構與持股結構的函數，但其實完全無法反映品質。因此我聚焦在營業利潤率，這是我努力的方向，也是我認為在各項獲利比率中最重要的一項。

So within that, externally, clearly demonstrated mid-20s for an industrial gas company. Even when you look at our segments externally, the Americas, obviously, operating mid-20s. So at a minimum, on a global basis, there's nothing preventing us from trying to achieve that on our gases businesses across all 3 segments. Obviously, you'll have timing of depreciation. You may have some portfolio differences of packaged gases versus on site. But irrespective, when you add it all together, those are numbers that we want to achieve and that we believe are absolutely feasible and have been demonstrated.

在這個框架下，從外部來看，工業氣體公司達到 20% 中段的營業利潤率已經有明確的實證。即使你看我們各事業部在外部的表現，美洲區顯然也是 20% 中段的營業利潤率。因此，至少在全球層面，沒有任何因素阻礙我們在三個事業部的氣體業務中努力達成這樣的水準。當然，折舊時點會有影響；包裝氣體與現場供氣的組合也可能有一些投資組合差異。但不論如何，把所有因素加總起來，這些就是我們想要達成、且我們相信完全可行並已被證明的數字。

Internally, we obviously have a lot more benchmarks than what you have visibility to and we look at every country and their operating margins, how they're structured, what they're able to deliver. So we have, I would say, even more stringent internal expectations of what needs to happen around margin delivery. And to Steve's point, when you look at price, when you look at inflation and when you look at productivity, the interrelationship between all those 3 has to be accretive. If that's accretive, it creates a compound value creation and that's why we always are very intent on cash fixed cost, pricing and the relationship of those. And then obviously, inflation in the environments you operate.

在內部方面，我們顯然有比你能看到的更多基準，我們會檢視每個國家及其營業利潤率、其結構如何、以及能交付到什麼程度。因此我會說，我們對利潤率交付所需發生的事情，有更嚴格的內部期待。回到 Steve 的觀點，當你看價格、看通膨、再看生產力時，這三者之間的相互關係必須是增益的（accretive）。如果是增益的，就會形成複利式的價值創造，這也是為什麼我們一直非常重視現金固定成本、定價以及它們之間的關係，當然也包括你所處營運環境中的通膨。

So this is something we expect every year to try and improve on our operating margins. And then to your point, other aspects like SG&A as a percentage of sales, sales or profit per headcount, return on capital, these are things that should improve through this internal operating rhythm and effort. So mid-20s is demonstrated, and that's clearly the goal, and then we want to continue to work better than that on an operating margin basis.

因此，這是我們每一年都期望能持續改善營業利潤率的事情。再回到你的問題，其他面向例如：SG&A（銷售、一般及行政費用）占銷售額比重、人均銷售或人均獲利、資本報酬率等，這些都應該透過這種內部營運節奏與努力而改善。所以 20% 中段已被證明，這顯然是目標，而我們也希望在營業利潤率的基礎上持續做得更好。

Our next question comes from the line of Steve Byrne with Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行（Bank of America）的 Steve Byrne。

You've laid out on Slide 10 a lot of the lofty green hydrogen goals for many countries. And you mentioned you're in dialogue with 16 of them. I wanted to ask you whether you think these countries have a plan for how to implement these lofty goals. Do you see it more as a carbon tax that might have more impact on the industries that could incorporate green hydrogen or the power companies that could incorporate it as a feedstock versus funding infrastructure that could be more used in implementing fuel cell-based transportation, which could be much smaller projects versus the former -- the very large projects that maybe more capital efficient? Do you have a view as to how those 2 buckets might play out longer term?

你在第 10 張投影片列出了許多國家相當宏大的綠氫目標，並提到你正在與其中 16 個國家對話。我想問的是，你是否認為這些國家已經有一套如何落實這些宏大目標的計畫？你是否更傾向認為它會以碳稅的形式呈現，對那些可以導入綠氫的產業、或可將其作為原料的電力公司產生更大影響；相較之下，若是資助基礎設施以推動燃料電池運輸，可能會是更小型的專案——而前者則是非常大型、也許資本效率更高的專案。你對這兩個方向長期可能如何發展，有什麼看法嗎？

Well, I think it's going to play out by country. It's going to play out by region. If I look at what's taking place in Asia, I would say that the Asian countries tend to move faster, whether you're talking about China or South Korea. Australia, I would put in that category. They tend to move quickly. I think we're going to need to see a lot of the details of some of these goals that have been -- gone public and see how they're going to work. I think that there will need to be a carbon tax. I think there needs to be a significant carbon price. And I -- earlier, I gave a comparison between, say, a gray hydrogen molecule and green hydrogen as nominally where it is today, so there's a significant difference. I don't think you can charge hundreds of dollars of carbon tax and have a workable solution. I think the number needs to come down over time. And that would be coincident with, again, the cost of hydrogen coming down -- from green hydrogen coming down as well.

我認為這會因國家而異，也會因地區而異。如果我看亞洲正在發生的事情，我會說亞洲國家往往動得更快，不論你談的是中國或南韓；澳洲我也會歸在這一類。他們通常推進得很快。我想我們需要看到一些已經公開的目標背後更多細節，看看它們將如何運作。我認為會需要碳稅；我認為需要一個顯著的碳價。我先前也做過比較，例如灰氫分子與綠氫在目前名目成本上的差異，差距相當大。我不認為你可以課徵數百美元的碳稅，然後還能有可行的解決方案。我認為這個數字需要隨時間下降；而這也會與綠氫成本隨時間下降同時發生。

So those 2 things are going to need to play out together. And we'll see how all of this evolves, but we're going to have lots of opportunity to talk about this as we understand more and more about what each country is intending. All I'm trying to lay out here today is that we're well-positioned in a lot of countries around the world that are going to be active in this space.

所以這兩件事需要一起發展。我們會看看整體如何演進；但隨著我們對各國意圖了解得越來越多，我們也會有很多機會再討論這個議題。我今天想要表達的重點只是：在全球許多將在這個領域積極投入的國家，我們都已經處於有利位置。

And I was curious about the level of involvement that your engineering arm has in this initiative. For example, you mentioned ITM Power as your partner for an electrolyzer, which they have a 2-megawatt unit, which is certainly suitable for that Germany fuel cell train project that you announced the other day. But if the big Shell refinery in Rhineland were to convert all of its hydrogen over to green hydrogen, the project would need to be a gigawatt of electrolysis and is -- your partner has a 2-megawatt. Is your engineering business involved in designing much larger electrolyzers or are involved in trying to adopt this technology to get larger scale?

我也好奇你們的工程部門在這項倡議中的參與程度。例如，你提到 ITM Power 是你們電解槽的合作夥伴，他們有一個 2 兆瓦的機組，這當然適用於你們前幾天宣布的德國燃料電池列車專案。但如果萊茵蘭（Rhineland）那座大型 Shell 煉油廠要把所有氫氣都轉成綠氫，該專案可能需要 1 吉瓦的電解能力，而你們的合作夥伴只有 2 兆瓦。你們的工程業務是否有參與設計更大型的電解槽，或是否正參與推動這項技術走向更大規模？

Well, the 2-megawatt module today, we haven't said what the size of the megawatt module is going to be going forward, so a part of this is larger modules. Part of this is scaling up the plants using our Linde Engineering capability so that they can bring all of their expertise to bear around the whole balance of plant because it's not just an electrolysis module. There's a lot of other supporting balance of plant that's part of that as well. And that's all part of how you bring these costs down. So there are some larger projects being discussed. The projects that we're working on today, certainly 20-megawatt, I think they're good-sized projects. I like those projects. Some larger projects being discussed. And I think what you will find is that with some of the capability that's out there today, say, around alkaline technology, that's like a 100-year-old technology. They haven't really used it for water in several decades, but that certainly is the intent. My expectation is that the Chinese are going to be very strong players in alkaline, building alkaline electrolysis equipment. And I think there's certainly going to be players, particularly as we're looking at some of these much larger scale projects. But right now, most of that's just being discussed. The normal fare of projects is in sort of the 2-, 5-, 10-, 20-megawatt size range, and we're perfectly happy to focus on those.

嗯，今天的 2 兆瓦模組——我們尚未說明未來的兆瓦模組規模會是多少，所以其中一部分是更大型的模組。另一部分是運用我們林德工程（Linde Engineering）的能力把整個工廠放大，讓他們能把在整個「廠內平衡系統」（balance of plant）方面的專業都發揮出來，因為不只是電解模組而已；還有很多其他配套的廠內平衡系統也包含在內。而這些都是降低成本的一部分。因此，確實有一些更大型的專案正在討論中。我們目前在做的專案，當然有 20 兆瓦的，我認為那是相當不錯的規模；我喜歡那些專案。也有一些更大型的專案在討論。我想你會看到的是：以目前一些既有能力來說，例如鹼性（alkaline）技術，那是大約 100 年的老技術。他們已經好幾十年沒有真正把它用在水電解上，但這確實是目前的意圖。我預期中國會在鹼性技術、建造鹼性電解設備方面成為非常強的參與者。我也認為一定會有其他玩家，特別是當我們在看一些更大規模的專案時。不過現在大多還在討論階段。一般常見的專案規模大概在 2、5、10、20 兆瓦的範圍，而我們非常樂於聚焦在這些。

And our next question comes from the line of Geoff Haire with UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀（UBS）的 Geoff Haire。

Just trying to size the scale of the hydrogen opportunity. Currently, today, I think hydrogen is roughly 10% of the sales of the gases of the group. How long do you think it will take before green hydrogen is the same size?

我只是想估算一下氫能機會的規模。目前我認為氫氣大約占集團氣體業務銷售額的 10%。你認為要多久，綠氫才能達到同樣的規模？

Before green hydrogen is what?

綠氫達到什麼？

Same size.

同樣的規模。

Same size, green hydrogen. Yes. Given the current landscape that you can see.

同樣的規模，綠氫。是的。以你目前能看到的現況來看。

Well, I think we're -- that's something that there's a lot of activity today. If I use some of the forecasts that are out there, not necessarily our internal forecast, some of the forecasts that are out there, it says that by 2030, this could be upwards of $200 billion size market. I'm kind of cautious in that. I want to see more first. I want to see the market develop. I want to see more of the projects move forward. But certainly, if it becomes that size, we would have no trouble equaling the size of our current hydrogen business today by that time frame.

嗯，我認為——目前確實有很多活動在進行。如果我引用一些外部的預測（不一定是我們內部的預測），有些預測指出到 2030 年，這可能會成為高達 2,000 億美元規模的市場。我對此有點保守；我想先看到更多。我想看到市場發展起來，想看到更多專案往前推進。但可以確定的是，如果它真的成長到那樣的規模，那麼在那個時間點之前，我們要讓綠氫業務規模達到我們目前氫氣業務的規模，並不會有困難。

And our next question comes from the line of John McNulty with BMO Capital.

我們的下一個問題來自 BMO Capital 的 John McNulty。

Stephen, in some of your opening comments around the core strategy, you highlighted portfolio optimization. You have a handful of businesses that aren't necessarily kind of industrial gas aligned necessarily. Any chance that we see an ability for you guys to pare those off in the next, say, 12 months or so?

Stephen，在你一些關於核心策略的開場評論中，你提到了投資組合最佳化。你們有幾項業務不一定與工業氣體高度一致。未來大約 12 個月左右，有沒有可能看到你們能把那些業務剝離出去？

Well, we're going to -- we certainly -- we're certainly working through the portfolio. There's always a long list of activities. We divested a couple of things this past quarter. One was a LNG trading business. Another was a small infusion business. So we're always doing things. We're always making packaged gas acquisitions and certain kinds of health care acquisitions, we're always looking -- we'll continue to look at. With respect to some of the larger pieces you might be referring to, with COVID, some of the discussions we were having just got put on the back burner because potential buyers just aren't in a position to move forward at this time. But those are things that we'll continue to look at. We have joint ventures we're in around the world that we've never been a big fan of joint ventures, that we would look to find a better solution than what we have today. So we can operate these things the way we want to. We're also in some small countries around the world that, from my vantage point, would have more risk than any benefit in being in, so we're looking to prune those as well. But there's always activity and a lot of times, it's just a function of who's on the other end, whether they're ready to move forward or not.

嗯，我們會——我們當然——我們確實正在梳理投資組合。一直都有一長串的工作事項。我們在上一季剝離了幾項業務：一項是 LNG 交易業務，另一項是一個小型輸注業務。所以我們一直都在做事情。我們也一直在進行瓶裝氣體的併購，以及某些類型的醫療保健併購，我們一直在看——也會持續關注。至於你可能指的某些較大的項目，因為 COVID，我們先前在進行的一些討論被暫時擱置，因為潛在買家目前並不具備推進的條件。但這些仍是我們會持續評估的事項。我們在全球有一些合資企業；我們從來就不是合資的忠實擁護者，我們會尋求比目前更好的解決方案，讓我們能以我們想要的方式來營運這些業務。我們也在全球一些小國家有業務，從我的角度看，這些市場的風險可能大於其帶來的效益，因此我們也在考慮修剪這些布局。不過，總是會有活動，而很多時候，這只是取決於交易對手是否已準備好往前走。

Got it. No, that's helpful. And then I guess one more question. Just there's a lot of talk on the hydrogen side. At the same time, look, there's a lot of stimulus factors we've been hearing about that are very heavily green related. Hydrogen also is obviously in that vein. Would you say you're more excited at this point about the potential for carbon sequestration tied to whether it's the green initiatives or the push on the hydrogen mobility market? Or are you more excited right now about the hydrogen mobility opportunity? How should we be thinking about that, say, over the next 5 years?

了解，這很有幫助。然後我想再問一個問題。氫能這邊有很多討論。同時，你看，我們也聽到很多刺激因素，且非常偏向綠色相關；氫能顯然也在這個脈絡之中。你會說你現在對於與綠色倡議或氫能移動市場推動相關的碳封存（carbon sequestration）的潛力更興奮？還是你現在對氫能移動的機會更興奮？我們應該如何看待未來 5 年左右的發展？

I would say right now, the hydrogen mobility is something that is more active. And clearly, if you look at -- if you go back to the number I mentioned, that if we could convert 1% of all fuel today used in heavy haul trucking to fuel cell electric vehicles, that's a $20 billion market itself. So the size of that market is enormous. There is a lot of interest in that. That's what most of the regulations you see today are targeting. China, 1 million fuel cell vehicles, 1,000 hydrogen refueling stations; South Korea, 3 million fuel cell vehicles; California, 1 million. So the target really is around -- the target of these countries, the focus is really around fuel cell vehicles and hydrogen refueling stations. So I would say that presents a bigger opportunity. The carbon capture and sequestration tends to be a little bit more one-offs. Again, it's going to be in countries where you have low-cost natural gas to begin with, like the United States. And as I said earlier, they're not really -- as a country, we're not really moving forward quickly at this point. So that can change. We can see more of that in the future. But right now, that's the way this opportunity slate is shaping up.

我會說，就目前而言，氫能移動這件事更為活躍。而且很明顯，如果你回到我提到的那個數字：如果我們能把目前重型長途卡車所使用燃料的 1% 轉換為燃料電池電動車，那本身就是一個 200 億美元的市場。所以這個市場規模非常龐大，大家對此也很有興趣。你今天看到的大多數法規也都是針對這個方向：中國，100 萬輛燃料電池車、1,000 座加氫站；南韓，300 萬輛燃料電池車；加州，100 萬輛。因此，這些國家的目標——其重點其實都圍繞在燃料電池車與加氫站上。所以我會說，這帶來的機會更大。碳捕捉與封存（carbon capture and sequestration）往往比較偏向一次性、個案型。再者，它通常會出現在本來就有低成本天然氣的國家，例如美國。而且如我先前所說，作為一個國家，我們目前並沒有非常快速地往前推進。所以這可能會改變，未來我們可能會看到更多。但就目前而言，這就是這些機會版圖的樣貌。

And our last question comes from the line of Laurence Alexander with Jefferies.

我們最後一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Laurence Alexander。

I guess, just last one on. Given the scope of the projects available for the on-site business, how do you think about return on capital hurdles? Or how do you think that the packaged gas and merchant businesses compete for capital going forward? And do you have any temptation to shift the merchant gas towards a more explicit pricing over volume strategy?

我想最後再問一個。考量到現場供氣（on-site）業務可取得的專案範圍，你們如何看待資本報酬門檻？或者未來瓶裝氣體與商用（merchant）業務將如何競爭資本配置？另外，你們是否有任何誘因把商用氣體更明確地從「量」轉向「價」的策略？

Well, we're always looking to balance price and volume when you're looking at the merchant liquid market. I mean, generally speaking, it's pretty profitable across the board. But that has to be done granularly. And what I mean by that, you have to look at it customer by customer. Look, if you have a low-margin account pushing pricing hard, there's a lot of upside. If you have a high-margin account, you want to be thoughtful in terms of how you manage the whole pricing expectation around that. So that's how I think about the merchant pricing in general. That's really how I think about package pricing, but any projects they want to bring forward, clearly, it's got to stand on its own. It's got to make good strategic sense from a product and a location standpoint. It's got to meet our return criteria. And the same thing is true back to the on-site. It has to meet our -- we have not changed our return criteria. We're still looking for good spreads above our cost of capital, and we look at each project opportunity through that lens.

嗯，在看商用液體市場時，我們一直在平衡價格與銷量。一般來說，整體而言它相當有利可圖。但這必須做得很細緻。我所謂細緻，是指你必須逐一客戶去看。你看，如果你有一個低毛利的客戶帳戶，卻在價格上施壓很大，那就有很大的改善空間；如果你有一個高毛利帳戶，你就要更審慎地管理其整體的價格預期。這就是我對商用定價的整體看法。這其實也是我對瓶裝產品定價的看法。不過，任何他們想提出的專案，顯然都必須能自立自足；從產品與地點的角度必須具有良好的策略意義；必須符合我們的報酬標準。現場供氣也是同樣道理：它必須符合我們的——我們沒有改變我們的報酬標準。我們仍在尋求高於資本成本的良好利差，並以這個視角來評估每一個專案機會。

Yes. And just to add to that, Laurence, this is Matt. As you know, we make 15-, 20-year investments. And if you do it right, it could be 50- or 60-year investments. So we have to think about our return criteria over the long haul. And as you know, often, these on-site investments are not 2-tailed risks. They tend to be 1-tailed risk to the downside because you have liquid advantages, you have performance requirements. So you have to be very thoughtful throughout all the cycles on when you make these investments. So that's something that we're not going to change. And every cycle is different. And as Steve mentioned, today, electronics and mining, things like that are doing well. And with stimulus coming in, in a year or 2, that could change the balance of some other industries. So we have to think long range, and we always want to maintain that long-range view when we make these investments.

是的。Laurence，我再補充一下，我是 Matt。如你所知，我們做的是 15 到 20 年的投資；如果做得對，可能會是 50 或 60 年的投資。所以我們必須以長期來思考我們的報酬標準。而且如你所知，這些現場供氣投資往往不是雙尾風險（2-tailed risks）。由於你有液體備援優勢、也有績效要求，它們通常是偏向下行的一尾風險（1-tailed risk）。因此，在所有景氣循環中，你必須非常審慎地判斷何時進行這些投資。這一點我們不會改變。而且每個循環都不同。如 Steve 提到的，今天電子與採礦等產業表現不錯；隨著刺激措施在一兩年內逐步到位，其他產業的比重可能會改變。所以我們必須以長期視角思考，並且在做這些投資時，始終維持那個長期觀點。

And this does conclude today's question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn the call back to Juan Pelaez for closing remarks.

以上為今天的問答環節。我現在把電話交回給 Juan Pelaez 作結語。

Chris, thanks, again. And thank you, everyone, for participating in today's call. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly. Stay safe.

Chris，再次感謝。也謝謝各位參與今天的電話會議。如果你有任何問題，歡迎直接與我聯繫。請注意安全。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

各位女士、先生，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位參與。您現在可以掛線。