林德集團 (LIN) 2020 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Fourth Quarter 2020 Linde Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference may be recorded. (Operator Instructions)

各位女士、先生，感謝您稍候，歡迎參加林德（Linde）2020 年第四季財報電話會議。（接線員指示）請注意，今天的會議可能會被錄音。（接線員指示）

I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Mr. Juan Pelaez, Head of Investor Relations. Sir, you may begin.

現在我想把會議交給今天的主講人——投資人關係主管 Juan Pelaez 先生。先生，您可以開始了。

Crystal, thank you, and good morning, everyone, and appreciate you attending our 2020 fourth quarter earnings call and webcast. I'm Juan Pelaez, Head of Investor Relations, and I'm joined this morning by Steve Angel, Chief Executive Officer; Matt White, Chief Financial Officer; and Sanjiv Lamba, Chief Operating Officer.

Crystal，謝謝您。各位早安，感謝大家參加我們 2020 年第四季財報電話會議與網路直播。我是投資人關係主管 Juan Pelaez。今天早上與我一同出席的還有：執行長 Steve Angel、財務長 Matt White，以及營運長 Sanjiv Lamba。

Today's presentation materials are available on our website at linde.com in the Investors section. Please read the forward-looking statement disclosure on Page 2 of the slides and note that it applies to all statements made during this teleconference. The reconciliations of the adjusted numbers are in the appendix of this presentation.

今天的簡報資料可在我們網站 linde.com 的「投資人」專區取得。請閱讀投影片第 2 頁的前瞻性陳述揭露，並注意其適用於本次電話會議期間所作的所有陳述。調整後數字的調節表載於本簡報的附錄。

Steve, Sanjiv, and Matt will now give an update on Linde's fourth quarter performance and will then be available to answer questions. Steve?

接下來 Steve、Sanjiv 與 Matt 將更新林德第四季的表現，之後也會回答提問。Steve？

Thank you, Juan. The entire team responded exceptionally well in a year dominated by COVID. Our front-line workers, in particular, deserve special recognition for what they accomplished and what they continue to do for our customers, our patients, and our communities. Despite the challenges of COVID, our key safety metrics continue to trend positively. We always say safety first here at Linde, and our people certainly walk the talk in 2020.

謝謝你，Juan。在 COVID 主導的一年裡，整個團隊的應對表現非常出色。尤其是一線同仁，對他們為我們的客戶、病患與社區所完成的工作，以及他們持續付出的努力，值得特別表揚。儘管 COVID 帶來挑戰，我們的關鍵安全指標仍持續呈現正向趨勢。我們在林德一向強調安全第一，而我們的同仁在 2020 年確實言行一致。

We ramped up our healthcare capabilities around the world. We developed new protocols to treat COVID patients in their homes, freeing up needed capacity and overburdened hospitals. Since March, we have treated 90,000 COVID home care patients. And unfortunately, that number continues to grow. And we did that while caring for our existing base of some 1.6 million home care patients.

我們在全球提升了醫療照護能力。我們制定了新的流程，讓 COVID 病患能在家中接受治療，釋放出所需的量能並減輕醫院超載。自 3 月以來，我們已治療 90,000 名居家照護的 COVID 病患；不幸的是，這個數字仍在增加。同時，我們也持續照護既有約 160 萬名居家照護病患。

We kept our plants running reliably and maintained service to our customers. We started up new plants in challenging circumstances with minimal delays. With the help of virtual tools, we transitioned from central to distributed operations almost flawlessly. In light of the inequalities in our society exposed by COVID-19, we contributed an additional $1.5 million to our communities beyond our normal level of giving.

我們確保工廠可靠運轉並維持對客戶的服務。我們在艱困情況下啟動新工廠，延誤降至最低。在虛擬工具的協助下，我們幾乎無縫地從集中式營運轉為分散式營運。鑑於 COVID-19 揭露了社會中的不平等，我們在既有捐助水準之外，額外向社區捐助 150 萬美元。

We demonstrated the resiliency of our business model. We quickly adjusted cost structures in line with local market conditions. We utilized our strong commercial terms and conditions to shield us from volume disruptions. We capitalized on more resilient growth opportunities in healthcare, electronics, and food freezing. We delivered strong financial performance for the full year. Matt will provide more detail on the financials but let me share a few highlights.

我們展現了商業模式的韌性。我們迅速依據各地市場狀況調整成本結構。我們運用強而有力的商業條款與條件，降低出貨量波動的衝擊。我們把握醫療照護、電子與食品冷凍等更具韌性的成長機會。我們在全年交出強勁的財務表現。Matt 會提供更多財務細節，但我先分享幾個重點。

Ex-FX, we delivered 13% earnings per share growth on minus 2% sales. Our EBIT percent rose 260 basis points to 21.3%. Gross operating cash flow grew 21% to $7.4 billion. And the single most important metric to me, return on capital, grew 180 basis points to 13.4%.

以固定匯率（Ex-FX）計算，在銷售額下降 2% 的情況下，我們的每股盈餘成長 13%。我們的 EBIT 利潤率上升 260 個基點至 21.3%。毛營運現金流成長 21% 至 74 億美元。而對我而言最重要的單一指標——資本報酬率——上升 180 個基點至 13.4%。

We won significant projects serving new semiconductor fabs, the largest of which is yet to be announced and is not yet included in the $3.6 billion sale of gas backlog number you see in the presentation.

我們贏得了多個為新半導體晶圓廠服務的重要專案，其中最大的一個尚未對外公布，也尚未納入簡報中所示 36 億美元的氣體銷售在手訂單（backlog）數字。

We won 36 small on-site projects in growing markets such as pulp and paper, lithium-ion batteries, and precious metals. We advanced our sustainability initiative. We are the only chemical company in the world who has been recognized in the World Dow Jones Sustainability Index for 18 consecutive years. And MSCI recently upgraded our ESG rating to an A rating.

我們在紙漿與造紙、鋰離子電池與貴金屬等成長市場，贏得了 36 個小型現場供氣（on-site）專案。我們推進了永續發展倡議。我們是全球唯一連續 18 年獲納入道瓊世界永續指數（World Dow Jones Sustainability Index）的化學公司。而 MSCI 近期也將我們的 ESG 評級上調至 A 級。

This time last year, we announced a new greenhouse gas emission intensity reduction goal of 35% by 2028. At this point, we're nearly halfway to achieving this goal. And we continue to develop applications that enable our customers to address their environmental challenges. We're currently working on several carbon capture utilization and sequestration projects that we expect to come to fruition in the coming months. We've made progress on our clean hydrogen initiative. We ramped up our JV with ITM to build PEM, proton exchange membrane, electrolysis plants.

去年此時，我們宣布新的溫室氣體排放強度目標：到 2028 年降低 35%。目前我們已接近完成該目標的一半。我們也持續開發應用，協助客戶因應其環境挑戰。我們目前正推進數個碳捕捉、利用與封存（CCUS）專案，預期在未來幾個月內將取得成果。我們在潔淨氫能倡議方面也有所進展。我們加速與 ITM 的合資企業，建置 PEM（質子交換膜）電解製氫設備。

We formed a dozen partnerships with fuel cell electric vehicle manufacturers, energy companies, and renewable power producers. We closed several important projects in China, South Korea, and Germany. We made significant progress on our diversity goals for women globally and minorities in the U.S. We conducted our second employee engagement survey, and the results were very positive and improved year-over-year.

我們與燃料電池電動車製造商、能源公司及再生能源發電業者建立了十多項合作夥伴關係。我們在中國、南韓與德國完成了數個重要專案。我們在全球女性與美國少數族裔的多元化目標上取得顯著進展。我們進行了第二次員工敬業度調查，結果非常正面，且較去年改善。

We maintained a strong compliance program, establishing a strong culture of compliance is a fundamental responsibility of every leader in our company. We didn't ring a bell or anything, but the merger integration is over, thanks to the outstanding work of many people from both legacy companies. In short, we accomplished a great deal in 2020 and performed at an exceptional level, especially when considering the environment.

我們維持了強健的法遵計畫；建立強而有力的法遵文化，是公司每一位領導者的基本責任。我們沒有敲鐘或做任何慶祝，但在兩家前身公司許多同仁的傑出努力下，併購整合已經完成。總之，我們在 2020 年完成了許多工作並展現卓越表現，尤其是在這樣的環境下更顯難得。

Now I've just made a lot of we statements, and now I have one more. We are well positioned for another outstanding year in 2021. Now I'll turn it over to Sanjiv to provide more details on the business trends and outlook.

我剛才用了很多「我們」的說法，現在我還要再說一次：我們已為 2021 年再創佳績做好充分準備。接下來我把時間交給 Sanjiv，請他就業務趨勢與展望提供更多細節。

Thank you, Steve, and good morning, everyone. As Steve mentioned, we had a strong finish to a challenging year. However, not all end markets have recovered and growth rates have been quite varied. Given the current uncertainty around the shape and speed of the economic recovery, I'd like to walk through the current business conditions, the key trends by end markets that you can find on the next slide, Slide 4.

謝謝你，Steve。各位早安。如 Steve 所提到，我們在充滿挑戰的一年中以強勁表現作結。然而，並非所有終端市場都已復甦，成長率差異也相當大。鑑於目前對經濟復甦形態與速度仍存在不確定性，我想帶各位檢視目前的業務狀況，以及各終端市場的關鍵趨勢；您可在下一張投影片——第 4 頁——看到。

This slide represents our global end key market sales, excluding engineering source for the last quarter. And the first point I'd like to make to you over here is that our sales are well balanced, with 40% in resilient markets like healthcare, electronics, food and beverage, and the other 60% in cyclical end markets, such as metals, manufacturing, chemicals, and refining.

這張投影片呈現我們全球主要終端市場的銷售額（不含工程來源）在上一季的表現。我想先指出的是，我們的銷售結構相當均衡：40% 來自醫療照護、電子、食品與飲料等具韌性的市場；其餘 60% 來自金屬、製造、化學與煉油等景氣循環型終端市場。

Clearly, the resilient end-markets provided both stability and earnings accretion throughout the year. These growth rates are more aligned with demographic and consumer trends, and of course, incremental application technology. This is especially true for our merchant and packaged supply modes. In fact, our strategic focus towards developing an integrated supply network across all 3 supply modes of on-site, merchant, and packaged enables us to efficiently serve all these customers.

顯然，具韌性的終端市場在全年提供了穩定性並帶來獲利增厚。這些成長率更貼近人口結構與消費趨勢，當然也受益於新增的應用技術。這對我們的商用（merchant）與瓶裝（packaged）供應模式尤其明顯。事實上，我們的策略重點是發展涵蓋現場供氣（on-site）、商用（merchant）與瓶裝（packaged）三種供應模式的整合供應網路，使我們能高效率地服務所有這些客戶。

In healthcare, which is about 20% of our sales, we continue to make considerable investments around the world to serve patients in both hospitals and homes. We have expanded our medical-grade oxygen capacity. We've introduced an inhaled nitric oxide alternative in the United States and Canada, provided specialty gases for research and drug discovery, and, of course, increased CO2 supply for dry ice production for the storage and transportation of vaccines.

在醫療照護方面（約占我們銷售額的 20%），我們持續在全球進行大量投資，以服務醫院與居家兩端的病患。我們擴充了醫療級氧氣產能。我們在美國與加拿大推出吸入式一氧化氮的替代方案，提供研究與藥物發現所需的特用氣體，並且——當然——為疫苗儲存與運輸所需的乾冰生產增加 CO2 供應。

Furthermore, we've been better prepared our home care organization to safely and reliably care for millions of high-risk patients right through this pandemic. It is, of course, difficult to say how much longer we'll face these challenges, but I can say with some confidence that we will continue to do our part to support and care for our customers.

此外，我們也讓居家照護組織準備得更充分，能在整個疫情期間安全且可靠地照護數以百萬計的高風險病患。當然，很難說我們還要面對這些挑戰多久，但我可以相當有信心地說，我們將持續盡一己之力，支持並照護我們的客戶。

Moving on to food and beverage, which comprises 10% of global sales. And this end market includes production and distribution for both pulp products and retail. Growth trends have been more prominent in bulk food freezing, dry ice for transport, and specific trends like oxygen for aquaculture, CO2 for greenhouses. I anticipate these trends will continue based on the rise of food delivery services, concentration of food production itself, and, of course, a growing demand for high-quality ready-to-eat meals. Now although the beverage market has been negatively impacted, particularly by the closure of restaurants, especially in North America and the U.K., that business has partially recovered through diner takeout trends that we see along with increased bottler demand. Overall, we see this as a stable market with some upside when there is return to restaurants dining.

接著談食品與飲料，約占全球銷售額的 10%。此終端市場涵蓋紙漿產品與零售的生產與配送。成長趨勢在大宗食品冷凍、運輸用乾冰，以及特定趨勢（如水產養殖用氧氣、溫室用 CO2）方面更為明顯。我預期這些趨勢將持續，原因包括外送服務興起、食品生產集中化，以及對高品質即食餐點需求增加。儘管飲料市場受到負面影響，特別是餐廳關閉（尤其在北美與英國），但我們看到隨著外帶用餐趨勢以及裝瓶商需求增加，該業務已部分復甦。整體而言，我們認為這是一個穩定的市場，且在餐廳內用回歸時仍有上行空間。

Moving on to electronics, which is 10% of our sales. We also consider this a resilient market since it tracks closely to consumer trends rather than industrial cycle and also because we supply critical products such as high-purity nitrogen and specialty gases and complex mixtures. Now these products enable our customers to make smaller and increasingly more powerful electronic devices, irrespective of their technology platforms. This is, of course, one of our fastest-growing markets both in the Americas and Asia Pacific as more investments are made into these integrated circuitry, memory, display, and solar panels.

再來談電子產業，約占我們銷售額的 10%。我們也將其視為具韌性的市場，因為它更緊密追隨消費趨勢而非工業景氣循環，且我們供應高純度氮氣、特用氣體與複雜混合氣等關鍵產品。這些產品使客戶得以製造更小、且效能日益強大的電子裝置，而不受其技術平台影響。當然，隨著對積體電路、記憶體、顯示器與太陽能板的投資增加，這也是我們在美洲與亞太地區成長最快的市場之一。

Some recent examples of on-site project wins include the recently announced Samsung win in South Korea. And there are other Tier 1 fabs in Taiwan, China, and Singapore as well. In fact, this is a market where I expect the most project backlog opportunities in 2021. And as we are, of course, pursuing actively in large number of projects, that should result in an additional win or wins being announced this year itself. Overall, the resilient end-markets provide a healthy foundation for future growth, while offering downside protection as evidenced by our financial performance during 2020.

近期現場專案得標的例子包括最近宣布在南韓取得的三星專案。此外，在台灣、中國與新加坡也有其他第一級晶圓廠。事實上，這是一個我預期在2021年將出現最多專案積壓機會的市場。而由於我們當然正積極追逐大量專案，這應會使今年內再宣布一項或多項新增得標。整體而言，具韌性的終端市場為未來成長提供健康的基礎，同時也提供下行保護，這點已由我們在2020年的財務表現所證明。

Let me move on to the bottom half of the slide, Slide 4. That shows the cyclical markets. Some of those you can see are denoted in yellow since they were negatively affected by the economic downturn, especially in Americas and EMEA. While many of these markets are underpinned by fixed-fee payments, such as on-site contracts and metals and chemicals, or cylinder rental payments, and manufacturing. Gas volumes are, however, exposed to industrial growth trends. Of course, this is also the part of our portfolio that will see the most leverage to recovery in the economy.

接著我來看投影片下半部，也就是第4頁，這裡顯示的是景氣循環型市場。其中一些以黃色標示，因為它們受到經濟衰退的負面影響，特別是在美洲與歐洲、中東及非洲（EMEA）。雖然這些市場中有許多是由固定費用付款所支撐，例如現場供氣合約、金屬與化工，或鋼瓶租賃付款，以及製造業；然而，氣體銷量仍會受到工業成長趨勢影響。當然，這也是我們投資組合中對經濟復甦槓桿效應最大的部分。

Metals and glass represents about 13% of our sales. Carbon steel production has been increasing in China, but of course, a lot more volatile in developed markets like Europe and the U.S., especially when those mills are linked to auto production. However, quarter 4 saw some of the highest in 2020 due to catch-up demand after pandemic production shutdowns and, of course, depletion of inventory in steel mills as well as end customers. We're also seeing some recent trends in this space, including the efforts to decarbonize steel production such as the use of oxyfuel combustion to reduce emissions and improve energy efficiency. We also see recovery in flat steel from a rebound in auto production.

金屬與玻璃約占我們銷售額的13%。中國的碳鋼產量一直在增加，但在歐洲與美國等已開發市場則波動更大，特別是當這些鋼廠與汽車生產連動時。然而，第4季出現了2020年內相對較高的水準之一，原因是疫情停工後的補庫需求，以及鋼廠與終端客戶庫存的消化。我們也看到此領域的一些近期趨勢，包括鋼鐵生產去碳化的努力，例如使用富氧燃燒（oxyfuel combustion）以降低排放並提升能源效率。我們也看到扁鋼因汽車產量反彈而復甦。

Of course, if we see any significant infrastructure stimulus spending, the metals industry will definitely benefit. We, of course, continue to have confidence in our portfolio of high-quality customer assets which have successfully navigated economic headwinds for many decades.

當然，如果出現任何顯著的基礎建設刺激支出，金屬產業必然會受益。我們也一如既往，對我們由高品質客戶資產所構成的投資組合保持信心，這些資產在過去數十年成功度過各種經濟逆風。

Moving on to chemicals and refining. That represents 19% of our sales globally and is well balanced across the different segments. Now similar to metals, we have focused efforts on partnering with high-quality assets. And therefore, our customers are some of the lowest-cost producers in the world. Production activity for 2020 ended below pre-pandemic levels. But so far this year, we've seen refining capacity utilization trend up to low 80s in the U.S.

接著談化工與煉油。該業務在全球約占我們銷售額的19%，並在不同細分領域之間相當均衡。與金屬類似，我們專注於與高品質資產合作，因此我們的客戶是全球成本最低的生產者之一。2020年的生產活動在疫情前水準之下結束。但截至今年目前為止，我們看到美國煉油產能利用率呈上升趨勢，來到80%出頭的區間。

The Gulf Coast refining system is well-integrated and still has some of the lowest cost feedstock in the world. Our current chemicals and refining backlog of projects are with leading global companies and protected with strong contractual terms.

墨西哥灣沿岸的煉油體系整合度高，且仍擁有全球最低成本的部分原料。我們目前化工與煉油的專案積壓，來自全球領先企業，並受到強而有力的合約條款保護。

We recently announced and we signed a new project with Wanhua in Hungary and, of course, continue to explore new opportunities as our customers work to reduce their carbon footprint. A good example of this is the increasing trends in biofuel production, requiring additional hydrogen for hydrotreating and hydroprocessing. So while 2020 represented a challenging year for these customers, we see upside potential heading into 2021.

我們最近宣布並簽署了在匈牙利與萬華（Wanhua）的新專案，並且在客戶致力降低碳足跡之際，持續探索新的機會。一個很好的例子是生質燃料產量的上升趨勢，這需要更多氫氣用於加氫精製（hydrotreating）與加氫處理（hydroprocessing）。因此，雖然2020年對這些客戶而言是充滿挑戰的一年，我們仍看到在邁入2021年時的上行潛力。

Let me move on to manufacturing, which at 19% contains a variety of end markets, including aviation, automotive, pulp and paper, and general manufacturing, but also some growth markets like commercial space flight. Now overall trends have been down due to weaker general manufacturing as many small to medium-sized manufacturing customers have to shut down some operations for extended periods. And while aviation has decreased with overall travel industry, we continue to see strong growth in commercial space flight, albeit off a very small base.

接著談製造業，約占19%，涵蓋多元終端市場，包括航空、汽車、紙漿與造紙，以及一般製造業，也包含一些成長型市場，例如商業太空飛行。整體趨勢因一般製造業走弱而下滑，因為許多中小型製造業客戶不得不長時間關閉部分營運。雖然航空業隨整體旅遊產業而下滑，我們仍看到商業太空飛行強勁成長，儘管基期非常小。

In addition, we've seen pulp and paper customers add more capacity to serve consumer retail demand, which has enabled more small on-site oxygen plant wins, especially true in Latin America and Northern Europe. But for most parts, manufacturing end-markets correlates with industrial production and thus would be expected to move up or down with those trends.

此外，我們看到紙漿與造紙客戶為了滿足消費零售需求而擴增產能，這也帶動更多小型現場供氧裝置的得標，特別是在拉丁美洲與北歐。不過在大多數情況下，製造業終端市場與工業生產高度相關，因此預期會隨這些趨勢上升或下降。

For the overall gases business, we have a good balance of both resilient and cyclical end markets. 2020 has already demonstrated the downside protection and stability in our business. And while we remain somewhat cautious in our outlook, we are well positioned to leverage any recovery in 2021.

就整體氣體業務而言，我們在具韌性與景氣循環型終端市場之間取得良好平衡。2020年已經證明我們業務具備下行保護與穩定性。雖然我們對前景仍保持一定程度的審慎，但我們已做好準備，在2021年把握任何復甦帶來的機會。

Let me move on to engineering. Our Engineering segment represents approximately 10% of our consolidated sales. It's a longer cycle business, so quarterly trends don't quite provide the full story. The last year was a culmination of a multiyear growth trend for order intake. Most of that primarily related to gas processing and petrochemical expansions. So for 2021, we estimate a net decrease in the sale of equipment backlog from a lower capital cycle spend.

接著談工程業務。我們的工程事業部約占合併銷售額的10%。這是一個週期較長的業務，因此單季趨勢無法完整反映全貌。去年是多年訂單承接成長趨勢的累積成果，其中多數主要與天然氣處理與石化擴產相關。因此對2021年，我們估計因資本週期支出降低，設備積壓的銷售將出現淨減少。

However, as clean energy projects continue to develop, I expect these to steadily become a larger part of the engineering portfolio. Irrespective of the near-term outlook, we have a high degree of confidence in the sustainability of long-term margins and cash generation in this business, driven by captive sale of gas opportunities, unrivaled technology portfolio, and focus on higher-quality engineering and services.

然而，隨著潔淨能源專案持續發展，我預期這些專案將穩步成為工程業務組合中更大的一部分。不論短期展望如何，我們對此業務長期利潤率與現金創造的可持續性具有高度信心，驅動因素包括：氣體銷售的綁定機會、無可匹敵的技術組合，以及聚焦於更高品質的工程與服務。

So let me wrap up by sharing some of my priorities for 2021. On safety and compliance, which is always first in Linde, we must maintain a best-in-class performance and a culture with continuous improvement across all our KPI's. For sustainability, we must further progress on the goals we set last year. In particular, our focus will be on the reduction of our greenhouse gas emissions intensity and, of course, increasing gender diversity.

最後我以分享2021年的幾項優先事項作結。在安全與法規遵循方面，這在林德（Linde）永遠是第一位，我們必須維持同級最佳的表現，並在所有KPI上建立持續改善的文化。在永續方面，我們必須進一步推進去年設定的目標。特別是，我們將聚焦於降低溫室氣體排放強度，並且當然也要提升性別多元性。

Price and cost management is a hallmark of Linde. We will build upon the current best practices on pricing and productivity, while also remaining laser-focused on cash management. We will also remain quite nimble, adjusting each local business to its environment for optimal results, yet always remaining prepared to capture any growth opportunities that fit our investment criteria. I'm sure you've heard Steve say in the past, ROC is a truth serum for any capital-intensive industry. And I truly believe that.

價格與成本管理是林德的標誌。我們將在現有定價與生產力的最佳實務上再接再厲，同時也持續高度聚焦於現金管理。我們也會保持相當敏捷，依各地業務所處環境調整以取得最佳成果，同時隨時準備把握任何符合我們投資標準的成長機會。我相信你們過去聽Steve說過，在任何資本密集型產業中，ROC是「真相血清」。我也確實相信如此。

We've instilled a culture in Linde where capital isn't free, where we have to be good stewards of shareholder capital. And to do so, we need to continuously optimize our base CapEx, while also pursuing all good investment opportunities. That means projects, acquisitions, and decaps as well.

我們在林德建立了一種文化：資本不是免費的，我們必須善盡股東資本的受託責任。為此，我們需要持續優化基礎資本支出（CapEx），同時也追求所有良好的投資機會。這意味著專案、併購，以及資產處分（decaps）都包含在內。

Our approach to growth remains disciplined. We will pursue all growth opportunities that meet our investment criteria, double-digit, unlevered, after-tax IRR with reputable customers who have competitive assets and in regions where we have confidence we can enforce our contracts. For such opportunities that we target, I'm confident we will win more than our fair share. Thus, we continue to improve the numerator, the after-tax operating profit, and maintain a long-term and disciplined approach to investing, I expect to see our ROC continue to grow.

我們的成長策略仍然嚴謹自律。我們將追求所有符合投資標準的成長機會：與具競爭力資產、信譽良好的客戶合作，並在我們有信心能夠執行合約的地區，達成兩位數、無槓桿、稅後IRR。對於我們鎖定的這類機會，我有信心我們能贏得超過合理份額。因此，隨著我們持續提升分子——稅後營業利益——並維持長期且自律的投資方式，我預期我們的ROC將持續成長。

With that, I'd now hand over to Matt, who will take you through the financial results and guidance. Matt?

接下來我把時間交給Matt，他將帶各位回顧財務結果與展望指引。Matt？

Thanks, Sanjiv. Please turn to Slide 5 for an overview of fourth quarter results. Sales of $7.3 billion were 3% above last year and 6% higher sequentially. Year-over-year, gas volume trends have started to stabilize, with an increase of 1% from 2019. This is driven by contribution from the project backlog as most of our customers have started up as anticipated. Organic volumes were stable with prior year as increases from electronics and healthcare were mostly offset by slight declines in manufacturing and refining. Sequentially, volumes increased across all geographic segments and most end markets.

謝謝你，Sanjiv。請翻到第5頁，概覽第四季業績。銷售額73億美元，較去年成長3%，較前一季成長6%。以年對年來看，氣體銷量趨勢已開始穩定，較2019年增加1%。這主要來自專案積壓的貢獻，因為我們多數客戶如預期啟動投產。有機銷量與去年持平，電子與醫療保健的成長大致被製造與煉油的些微下滑所抵銷。以季對季來看，各地理區域與多數終端市場的銷量均有所增加。

The engineering business drove a 1% decrease in sales from prior year. As you know, this is a longer cycle business. So quarterly trends are less indicative of overall conditions. Currently, projects are being completed faster than order intake, thus resulting in a slightly lower backlog of $4.7 billion, which is about 1.5x to 2x annualized sales. Despite the lower fourth quarter sales, the team improved EBIT margin 110 basis points and ended the full year with margins above 15%.

工程業務使銷售額較去年下降1%。如各位所知，這是一個週期較長的業務，因此單季趨勢較難反映整體狀況。目前專案完成速度快於訂單承接，因此積壓略降至47億美元，約為年化銷售額的1.5倍至2倍。儘管第四季銷售較低，團隊仍將EBIT利潤率提升110個基點，並以全年超過15%的利潤率作收。

Looking ahead, we expect engineering EBIT margins to average low double-digit percent throughout the cycle. Pricing remains healthy at 2%, as most business units are keeping up with local inflation. Proper contract management is an integral part of our operating model, and therefore provides long-term confidence in the ability to maintain positive pricing in any environment. Foreign currency was a 2% tailwind as the U.S. dollar weakened against most currencies in APAC and EMEA, although the Americas still has a headwind due to weaker Latin American currencies.

展望未來，我們預期工程業務的EBIT利潤率在整個週期中平均將維持在低兩位數百分比。定價仍然健康，為2%，因為多數事業單位都能跟上當地通膨。妥善的合約管理是我們營運模式不可或缺的一部分，因此讓我們對在任何環境下維持正向定價的能力具備長期信心。外匯帶來2%的順風，因美元對亞太（APAC）與歐洲、中東及非洲（EMEA）多數貨幣走弱，儘管美洲仍因拉丁美洲貨幣疲弱而面臨逆風。

The combination of stable volumes, higher pricing, and strong productivity and cost management resulted in operating profit of $1.6 billion, which is 20% above last year. The 22.2% margin is 320 basis points above 2019 and represents our 6th consecutive quarter of expanding operating margins more than 200 basis points. Earnings per share of $2.30 increased 22% from prior year and 7% sequentially. The incremental growth rate versus operating profit is primarily due to the lower share count.

穩定的銷量、更高的定價，以及強勁的生產力與成本管理相結合，使營業利益達到16億美元，較去年成長20%。22.2%的利潤率較2019年高出320個基點，並且是我們連續第6個季度營業利潤率擴張超過200個基點。每股盈餘為2.30美元，較去年增加22%，較前一季增加7%。相較於營業利益的增量成長率較高，主要是因為流通股數較少。

Operating cash flow of $2.4 billion was our highest quarter yet, ending at 12% above last year and 29% above the third quarter. In fact, it represents another quarter where the operating cash flow to EBITDA ratio exceeded 100%. We had a strong finish in working capital, especially in the Engineering segment, but I'll speak more to that on the next slide.

營運現金流為24億美元，創下我們迄今最高的單季水準，較去年高出12%，較第三季高出29%。事實上，這也代表又一個季度的「營運現金流對EBITDA比率」超過100%。我們在營運資金方面收尾表現強勁，尤其是在工程（Engineering）事業部門，但我會在下一張投影片再多談一些。

CapEx of $1 billion was 1% above last year and 30% higher sequentially. As a reminder, project CapEx represents opportunities over $5 million in spend with returns supported by long-term contracts. These projects often take 3 or more years to build. So spending patterns fluctuate from construction and delivery timing. Therefore, a better indicator is the sale of gas project backlog, which stands at $3.6 billion, similar to the third quarter. Base CapEx has increased from both periods, primarily due to quality growth investments that meet our return criteria, but not all requirements to be included in the project backlog.

資本支出（CapEx）為10億美元，較去年高出1%，較前一季高出30%。提醒一下，專案CapEx係指支出超過500萬美元、且其報酬由長期合約支持的機會。這些專案通常需要3年或更久才能建成，因此支出型態會隨施工與交付時點而波動。因此，更好的指標是售氣（sale of gas）專案在手訂單（backlog），目前為36億美元，與第三季相近。基礎CapEx較兩個期間皆有所增加，主要來自符合我們報酬標準的優質成長投資，但並非全部都符合納入專案在手訂單的所有要求。

Example investments include small on-site, specialty gas plants, hydrogen mobility, and expanding medical gas capacity. Ultimately, all capital decisions roll up to ROC, which continues to trend in the right direction with Q4 ending at 13.4%. You can see a continual improvement from substantial earnings growth on a stable capital base.

投資範例包括小型現場（on-site）與特用氣體工廠、氫能移動（hydrogen mobility），以及擴增醫療氣體產能。最終，所有資本決策都會彙總至ROC（資本報酬率），而ROC持續朝正確方向發展，第四季結束時為13.4%。您可以看到，在穩定的資本基礎上，隨著獲利大幅成長而帶來的持續改善。

As Sanjiv mentioned, we as management are stewards of shareholder capital. So this metric is the best way to define long-term success in deploying that capital. To build off that, I'd like to spend some time reviewing the full year 2020 capital management on Slide 6.

如Sanjiv所提到的，我們管理團隊是股東資本的受託管理者。因此，這個指標是界定長期成功、衡量如何運用該資本的最佳方式。延續這點，我想花一些時間在第6張投影片回顧2020年全年的資本管理。

As you can see on the left side, full year operating cash increased 21%. This was driven by a combination of higher earnings, lower merger costs, and better working capital management. Cash from operations grew steadily over the 2-year period despite the challenges related to the pandemic, including the second and third quarters of 2020. The right side represents how that capital was deployed. Linde has a stable and predictable cash allocation approach, irrespective of any short-term disruptions around the world. The underlying mandate is an A credit rating with a growing dividend each year. In fact, just 2 weeks ago, we announced a 10% dividend increase for 2021 to mark our 28th consecutive year of increasing dividends.

如您在左側所見，全年營運現金增加21%。這是由較高的獲利、較低的併購成本，以及更佳的營運資金管理共同推動。儘管疫情帶來挑戰（包括2020年第二季與第三季），兩年期間來自營運的現金仍穩步成長。右側則呈現這些資本如何被運用。Linde採取穩定且可預測的現金配置方式，不受全球任何短期干擾影響。其核心要求是維持A級信用評等，並且每年提高股利。事實上，就在2週前，我們宣布2021年股利提高10%，以紀念我們連續第28年提高股利。

Our capital priority is to invest back into the business. It can be for projects, decaps, or acquisitions. We view them equally under our consistent investment criteria. All growth must meet a proper risk/reward balance because mistakes in this industry can result in long-term losses that exceed the initial investment. During 2020, $3.5 billion met our investment standards and I expect this number to increase over time.

我們的資本優先順序是再投資於業務，可用於專案、汰舊更新（decaps）或併購。我們在一致的投資標準下，將它們視為同等重要。所有成長都必須符合適當的風險／報酬平衡，因為在這個產業的錯誤可能導致長期損失，且損失金額可能超過最初投資。2020年共有35億美元符合我們的投資標準，我預期這個數字會隨時間增加。

Finally, any excess cash left over after dividends and investments is used for stock repurchases. And you can see that number was $2.4 billion for 2020. We recently approved a new $5 billion stock repurchase program, which further validates our confidence in the ability to generate significant excess cash flow. The path to long-term compound value generation requires annual growth of earnings and cash flow with a consistent, disciplined capital deployment model for both the good and challenging years.

最後，在支付股利與投資之後的任何剩餘現金，將用於庫藏股回購。您可以看到，2020年的回購金額為24億美元。我們近期核准了一項新的50億美元股票回購計畫，進一步驗證我們對於產生可觀超額現金流能力的信心。長期複利價值創造之路，需要每年獲利與現金流成長，並在景氣好與具挑戰的年份都維持一致且自律的資本配置模式。

Furthermore, building local density in diverse end markets provides Linde downside protection with significant leverage to growth cycles. 2020 validated the resilience of this model in a tough year. And we look forward to demonstrating how we can perform in a recovery.

此外，在多元終端市場建立在地密度，能為Linde提供下行保護，同時對成長循環具有顯著槓桿。2020年在艱困的一年中驗證了此模式的韌性。我們也期待在復甦期間展現我們的表現。

I'll now wrap up with guidance, which you can find on Slide 7. Initial EPS outlook for full year 2021 is $9.10 to $9.30. This represents an 11% to 13% growth rate with an estimated 1% FX tailwind. Excluding FX, the 10% to 12% range assumes minimal economic benefit at the bottom end and a low single-digit economic growth at the top end. In other words, and consistent with prior statements, we have confidence we can grow EPS double-digit percent with minimal help from the economy.

接下來我將以財測作結，您可在第7張投影片看到。2021年全年初步每股盈餘（EPS）展望為9.10至9.30美元。這代表11%至13%的成長率，並假設匯率（FX）帶來約1%的順風。排除匯率後，10%至12%的區間假設：區間下緣幾乎沒有經濟面助益，上緣則為低個位數的經濟成長。換言之，且與先前說法一致，我們有信心在經濟助力有限的情況下，仍能實現EPS兩位數百分比成長。

And while we don't provide revenue guidance, I do want to mention for modeling purposes, that effective January 1, we have deconsolidated a 50% joint venture in the APAC segment. Our ownership and economic interest remain the same. However, we had some incremental shareholder rights that expired in December, which both parties agreed not to renew. The effect of this deconsolidation will be shown as a divestiture and will reduce annualized sales approximately $600 million at average op margins. Note, this change will not affect EPS, due to the proportional increase in equity income. Stated simply, this is merely an accounting change that will not impact our economic benefits.

另外，雖然我們不提供營收指引，但為了建模之用，我想提到：自1月1日起，我們已將APAC事業部門中一項50%合資企業予以除列合併（deconsolidated）。我們的持股與經濟權益維持不變。然而，我們先前擁有的一些額外股東權利已於12月到期，且雙方同意不再續約。此除列合併的影響將以處分（divestiture）呈現，並將以平均營業利潤率水準使年化銷售額約減少6億美元。請注意，由於權益法收益按比例增加，此變動不會影響EPS。簡言之，這僅是會計處理變更，不會影響我們的經濟利益。

Turning to the first quarter. We are providing EPS guidance of $2.20 to $2.25 or 16% to 19% growth rate including an assumed 2% FX tailwind. This range assumes a normal seasonal decline from the fourth quarter, including Chinese New Year and Brazilian Carnival. At this point, we are not assuming any meaningful improvement in sequential volumes from Q4. And while we started 2021 with a stronger January than anticipated, we're not in a position to update guidance at this time.

接著看第一季。我們提供EPS指引為2.20至2.25美元，或16%至19%的成長率，並包含假設2%的匯率順風。此區間假設相較第四季有正常的季節性下滑，包括農曆新年與巴西嘉年華。在目前階段，我們不假設相較Q4的銷量有任何顯著的逐季改善。雖然2021年1月的開局比預期更強，但我們目前尚未能更新指引。

Consistent with prior quarters, we believe it's prudent to remain cautious on the outlook as the pandemic evolves. But rest assured, if there is any economic upside, we will capture more than our fair share as demonstrated by the second half of 2020. And if the economy does improve more than our baseline assumptions, we will likely be at the upper end or above this guidance range.

與前幾季一致，我們認為隨著疫情演變，對展望保持審慎是明智的。不過請放心，若經濟出現任何上行空間，我們將如2020年下半年所展現的那樣，取得超過我們應得份額的成果。若經濟改善幅度超過我們的基準假設，我們很可能會落在此指引區間的上緣或高於該區間。

I'd now like to turn the call over to Q&A.

接下來我想把電話交給問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) And our first question comes from Bob Koort from Goldman Sachs.

（接線員指示）我們的第一個問題來自高盛（Goldman Sachs）的Bob Koort。

I wanted to ask a bit about the forward-looking to 2021 in context of -- obviously, you did a tremendous job in '20 on a cost basis. I think your operating profits climbed over $500 million and your sales are actually down almost $1 billion. So you had -- you broke the calculator on the incremental margins. How should we think about it going into '21? And what might underlie that earnings output that you guided us towards in terms of a sales evolution relative to an EBIT evolution in this operating profit? And do you see some of the expenses that maybe were diminished in '20 rolling back in, in '21 as the world moves towards a more normal business operating condition?

我想就2021年的前瞻請教一些問題，因為很明顯你們在2020年的成本面做得非常出色。我認為你們的營業利益增加了超過5億美元，但銷售額實際上下降了將近10億美元。所以你們的增量利潤率表現——幾乎把計算機都算壞了。那麼進入2021年我們應該如何看待？就你們所給的指引而言，這個獲利產出背後，營收的演變相對於EBIT的演變、以及在這個營業利益中的關係，可能會是什麼樣子？另外，隨著全球朝更正常的營運狀態邁進，你們是否看到一些在2020年可能被壓低的費用，在2021年會回升？

Okay, Bob. This is Steve. Thanks for the question. First of all, I need to give a shout-out to my daughter today, it's her 30th birthday. So happy birthday, Logan. She only cares about the share price, by the way; she won't be listening in.

好的，Bob。我是Steve。謝謝你的問題。首先，我今天要特別向我女兒致意，她今天30歲生日。所以生日快樂，Logan。順帶一提，她只在乎股價；她不會收聽這通電話。

So Bob, as we think about continuing to expand margins, obviously, that's in our sights, that's built into our plans. We're giving clear guidance on double-digit earnings growth. And as Matt described, even at the low end, there's no real volume expectation. And at the higher end, there's low single-digit volume expectations. So obviously, we're going to lever up the EBIT quite a bit off of a pretty small volume assumption, and then we'll lever that further through share buybacks, and I didn't really go back and calculate the number, but clearly, it's going to be another significant move. That's the plan in terms of EBIT margin expansion.

所以Bob，當我們思考持續擴大利潤率時，顯然這是我們的目標，也已納入我們的計畫。我們已明確給出兩位數獲利成長的指引。如Matt所描述，即使在區間下緣，也沒有真正的銷量成長預期；而在上緣，則是假設低個位數的銷量成長。因此，很明顯地，我們將在相當小的銷量假設下，讓EBIT有相當程度的槓桿放大，接著再透過股票回購進一步放大。我沒有回頭去精算那個數字，但很清楚這將會是另一個顯著的提升。這就是我們在EBIT利潤率擴張方面的計畫。

And I think, as Matt probably said a couple of times, we don't really know what's going to happen this year. I mean we are looking at January, obviously, and the results are pretty encouraging. 1 month doesn't make a quarter and 1 month certainly doesn't make a year. So we certainly have to be a little more cautious in terms of what could happen in the second half of the year.

而且我想，正如Matt可能已經提過幾次，我們其實不太確定今年會發生什麼。我們當然在看1月的情況，而結果相當令人鼓舞。但1個月不代表1個季度，1個月更不代表1整年。因此，對於今年下半年可能發生的情況，我們確實必須更為審慎一些。

Yes. And Bob, this is Matt. I'll just add 1 thing to that as well. I mean long-range, we look at the equation of price productivity cost inflation to be an accretive component to how we think about our earnings and our margins on a go-forward basis. So this is beyond the merger. This is beyond anything like that.

是的。而且，Bob，我是 Matt。我也想再補充一點。從長期來看，我們認為「價格、生產力、成本、通膨」這個方程式，將會是我們在未來思考獲利與利潤率時的一個增益性（accretive）組成部分。所以這不僅僅是併購之後的效應，也不僅僅是類似那樣的因素。

We don't anticipate temporary cost savings that pop back or anything to that extent, as we've discussed in prior calls. So we see this as a compound value opportunity, as Steve mentioned, and this doesn't assume much volume help at all at this stage on the organic. Obviously, we'll have our backlog volume and then we'll just have to see what happens to the economy. We'll take it quarter-by-quarter, and we'll keep giving updates as they occur. But January was better than what we expected, and we'll just have to see how it plays out in the next 2 months, and we'll give you another update come our next call.

如同我們在先前的電話會議中討論過的，我們不預期會有那種之後又反彈回來的暫時性成本節省，或任何到那種程度的情況。因此，正如 Steve 提到的，我們把這視為一個複利式的價值機會，而且在現階段就有機成長而言，這幾乎不需要假設有太多的量的幫助。當然，我們會有在手訂單（backlog）的量，接著就得看看經濟會怎麼走。我們會一季一季地看，並在有進展時持續提供更新。不過，1 月比我們預期的更好，接下來 2 個月會如何發展還要再觀察，我們會在下一次電話會議時再向各位更新。

And can I ask a hydrogen question? You're building the PEM electrolyzer in Leuna. And I assume some of that gets shoved in your pipeline network. How do you distinguish sales prices for green versus mingled hydrogen through that pipeline into your customer base?

我可以問一個氫能的問題嗎？你們正在 Leuna 建置 PEM 電解槽。我猜其中一部分會被送進你們的管線網路。那麼，對於透過該管線輸送到客戶端的「綠氫」與「混合氫」，你們如何區分其銷售價格？

Well, I mean we obviously think coming off of the electrolyzer, that volume that we're selling through the pipeline system to some existing chemical customers. I mean we can identify those molecules. That's not a problem. It's clearly at a premium, a substantial premium. And just while you're on that point talking about this project, this is kind of the quintessential industrial gas supply project, where we have multiple modes of supply in 1 targeted geography, which is in Leuna. So we have gas molecules going down the pipeline. As we just discussed, we have gas molecules that will be going into tube trailers to supply train stations, to supply buses. We're liquefying some of those molecules to distribute to trucking and general industry. So it really is a typical integrated supply system. It just happens to be around green hydrogen this time. And it's in a location where we already have a strong presence, to your point.

嗯，我的意思是，從電解槽出來之後，我們透過管線系統把那部分量賣給一些既有的化工客戶。我們可以辨識那些分子，這不是問題。它很明顯是以溢價出售，而且是相當可觀的溢價。順著你提到這個專案的點再補充一下，這其實是非常典型的工業氣體供應專案：我們在一個鎖定的地理區域（Leuna）內，採用多種供應模式。所以我們有氣體分子透過管線輸送；如同剛才討論的，我們也會把氣體分子裝入管束車（tube trailers），供應加氫站、供應巴士；我們也會把其中一些分子液化，分銷給卡車運輸與一般工業。因此，這確實是一個典型的整合式供應系統，只是這次剛好圍繞著綠氫。而且如你所說，這個地點我們本來就有很強的既有布局。

Our next question comes from Nicola Tang from Exane BNP Paribas.

下一個問題來自 Exane BNP Paribas 的 Nicola Tang。

I wanted to ask a little bit about the backlog. I think back in Q3, you were flagging that actually, the backlog might decline into 2021, just related to capital cycle corrections, but you actually sound quite upbeat today, thinking about the opportunities. And if I look at your CapEx guide for 2021, it looks kind of flat versus 2020. So I was wondering if you're actually seeing better project activity than you initially expected. Or are you stepping up the base CapEx, perhaps?

我想稍微問一下在手訂單（backlog）。我記得在第三季時，你們曾提示因資本循環修正，backlog 可能會在 2021 年下滑，但今天聽起來你們對機會相當樂觀。而且如果我看你們 2021 年的資本支出（CapEx）指引，似乎相較 2020 年大致持平。所以我想請問，你們是否看到比原先預期更好的專案活動？還是你們可能在提高基礎 CapEx？

And then within the double-digit EPS guide, could you kind of give us a steer for how much is driven by new project start-ups? And then sort of tagged on to this, if I can squeeze it in. On electronics, again, it sounds like you're pretty upbeat there in terms of opportunities. Can I ask whether the sort of current situation with the semiconductor bottlenecks is impacting you in any way with the plus 8% growth in the quarter? And also whether you think that this could drive an acceleration in new investments going forward?

另外，在雙位數 EPS 指引之中，你們能否給我們一些方向：其中有多少是由新專案啟動（start-ups）所帶動？再延伸追問一下（如果我可以塞進來的話）。在電子（electronics）方面，你們同樣聽起來對機會相當樂觀。我想問，目前半導體供應瓶頸的情況，是否以任何方式影響到你們（例如本季 +8% 的成長）？以及你們是否認為這可能會推動未來新投資加速？

Okay. So backlog contribution, 2% is kind of, I think, the right number you should use, kind of 2 on the top, 2 on the bottom, that's really kind of been our ongoing rate. We have a fairly strong CapEx start-ups -- lineup of start-ups in 2021. Of course, it's during different times of the year, so you don't get all the contributions in 2021. They tend to roll over. It's always difficult to talk about what you think a year-end backlog number is going to be because it's really a function of -- you know what you've got in front of you that you're going to book, and I've certainly alluded to a very large project that we're looking forward to telling you more about in the not-too-distant future.

好的。關於 backlog 的貢獻，2% 大概是我認為你們應該採用的正確數字，大概上面 2%、下面 2%，這一直是我們的常態水準。我們在 2021 年有相當強的 CapEx 專案啟動（start-ups）排程。當然，因為分布在一年中的不同時間點，所以不會在 2021 年把所有貢獻一次反映出來，通常會延續到下一期。要談你認為年底 backlog 會是多少一直很困難，因為它其實取決於——你知道你眼前有哪些你會簽下來（book）的案子；而我也確實提過，我們正在看一個非常大型的專案，期待在不久的將來能跟各位分享更多細節。

But what happens during the remainder of the year is kind of a function of, I'd say, the pace of clean energy projects, maybe the pace of other electronics projects. If demand comes back, that generally provides projects for -- we see more project activity, more of our traditional industries like petrochemical and metals. But that kind of -- we have to kind of wait and see. There's not much going on, obviously, in that latter category at this point. It's more around electronics and clean energy.

但今年剩餘時間會怎麼發展，我會說主要取決於：潔淨能源專案的推進速度，或其他電子相關專案的推進速度。如果需求回來了，通常也會帶來專案——我們會看到更多專案活動，更多來自我們一些傳統產業（例如石化與金屬）的專案。但那部分——我們得再觀察。目前在那一類別顯然沒有太多動靜，更多是在電子與潔淨能源。

So the CapEx spend is pretty consistent. Again, we -- it doesn't move that much unless the backlog really starts to drop year over year-over-year, then you'd see that large project spend continued to drop. The base CapEx is more consistent. There's lots of little growth opportunities inside of that. I said 33 or 36 small on-site that we booked in 2020 there. We have a very strong focus on that. We like those projects. There's good opportunities in some of these markets that Sanjiv alluded to that we'll spend some CapEx against to capitalize on that growth.

所以 CapEx 支出相當一致。同樣地，除非 backlog 真的開始年比年、年比年地下滑，否則它不會變動太大；若真是那樣，你會看到大型專案支出持續下降。基礎 CapEx 則更為穩定，其中包含許多小型的成長機會。我提過我們在 2020 年簽下了 33 或 36 個小型現場（on-site）專案；我們對此非常聚焦。我們喜歡這些專案。在 Sanjiv 提到的一些市場中有不錯的機會，我們會投入一些 CapEx 來把握那樣的成長。

So yes, I do think semiconductors will continue to be a very strong opportunity. Sanjiv talked about that in his comments as well. It's how we work today, virtually, it's the Internet of Things. It's chips that are going to go on everything, especially in automobiles. So semiconductor opportunity is going to be very strong. We've been talking about this for 2 years. We're well positioned in places like South Korea, Taiwan, and China, which is really kind of the axis of where all the semiconductor fabs have been built. There is some new activity. Obviously, the U.S. is trying to go more prime in terms of having domestic semiconductor fabrication.

所以是的，我確實認為半導體將持續是一個非常強勁的機會。Sanjiv 在他的評論中也談到了這點。這關乎我們今天如何工作——虛擬化、物聯網（Internet of Things）。晶片將會被用在所有東西上，尤其是在汽車上。因此，半導體機會會非常強。我們已經談這件事兩年了。我們在南韓、台灣與中國等地的布局很到位，這些地方基本上就是半導體晶圓廠（fabs）建置的核心軸線。也有一些新的動態。顯然，美國正試圖在國內半導體製造方面變得更為關鍵（更具主導性）。

Our next question comes from David Begleiter from Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題來自德意志銀行（Deutsche Bank）的 David Begleiter。

Steve, can you discuss how your refining inhaling businesses have improved from the load of the pandemic?

Steve，你能談談你們的煉油與氦氣業務，從疫情的衝擊中改善了多少嗎？

Well, I think in -- with respect to helium, I mean it's down year-over-year. We did see some sequential improvement from Q3 to Q4. We'll kind of have to wait and see what happens this time in coming out of January and during the quarter. But if you kind of look at some of the elements of that, there's a significant piece that's electronics. Obviously, that's going to do well. I think the industrial volumes will kind of move as the industry recovers. Balloons are clearly down, have been down, will continue to be down, and I don't have to explain why. And then there's a piece of it for us that's also tied to MRI, and that looks kind of stable to maybe slightly up. So it looks to me like there's going to be sequential improvement, not at a rapid pace, but certainly sequential improvement on volumes going forward.

嗯，我想就氦氣而言，年比年是下滑的。我們確實看到從第三季到第四季有一些季比改善。接下來要看看 1 月結束後以及本季期間會發生什麼。但如果你拆解其中一些要素，有很大一部分是電子相關。顯然那會表現得很好。我認為工業用量會隨著產業復甦而變動。氣球用量明顯下滑、已經下滑、也會持續下滑，我不需要解釋原因。然後對我們來說還有一部分也與 MRI 相關，那看起來大致穩定到可能小幅上升。所以在我看來，未來用量會有季比改善，不會是很快的速度，但確實會有季比改善。

I would say in terms of refinery volumes, and what I look at is hydrogen. Clearly, in Q4, we're down something like 7% or so year-over-year. So up a little bit from Q3. And starting off in January, I'm looking at like January versus December, and I'm seeing plus 8% kind of numbers on volume. So they are starting to improve. I think you know what the drivers are behind their end markets. Clearly, jet fuel is very weak, still. Diesel has been strong, gasoline is weaker. And what one would have to expect is as you get deeper into the year and COVID gets behind us, particularly in places like the U.S., that you would see hydrogen volumes improve and should improve considerably. We also have some new project start-ups that will augment that.

至於煉油廠的量，我看的指標是氫氣。很明顯在第四季，我們年比年大概下滑了 7% 左右，所以比第三季稍微好一點。而從 1 月開始，我看 1 月相對 12 月，量大概是 +8% 這樣的數字。所以它們正在開始改善。我想你也知道其終端市場背後的驅動因素。顯然，航空燃油（jet fuel）仍然非常疲弱；柴油一直很強，汽油較弱。而合理的預期是，隨著進入今年更後段、COVID 逐漸成為過去，特別是在美國這樣的地區，你會看到氫氣用量改善，而且應該會顯著改善。我們也有一些新的專案啟動（start-ups）會進一步增添這部分。

And then if you get into like liquid hydrogen volumes, which aren't necessarily tied to refining, but some piece might go into biofuels, that's a pretty -- that's on a pretty positive trend itself. So that's kind of the status of our volumes to the refining industry, still down year-over-year, but starting to see some improvement. I would expect that to improve -- could improve quite a bit in the back half of the year.

另外，如果你看像液態氫的量，它不一定與煉油直接綁在一起，但其中一部分可能會用在生質燃料，那本身是一個相當——那本身呈現相當正向的趨勢。所以這就是我們對煉油產業供應量的現況：年比年仍然下滑，但開始看到一些改善。我預期在今年下半年會改善——可能會改善不少。

Very good. And just lastly, on share buybacks. You announced a new $5 billion program last month. How should we think about the level of buybacks in 2021?

非常好。最後一個問題，關於庫藏股回購。你們上個月宣布了一個新的 50 億美元計畫。我們應該如何看待 2021 年回購的規模水準？

David, yes, this is Matt. I can answer that. So as you saw, we did $2.4 billion net in 2020. And so we're going to continue to sweep the excess cash that we have, and we'll be buying back. Our expectation is we'll be in the market every day. And then where we see opportunities, we may go heavier. That's kind of how we normally play that out. But the $5 billion program, we had to put an expiration date on it as required for Europe. So we just put something out there in kind of July 2023. But we'll continue to execute and use our excess cash, and we'll be in the market daily.

David，是的，我是 Matt。我可以回答這個問題。正如你所看到的，我們在 2020 年淨回購了 24 億美元。因此我們會持續把手上多餘的現金掃入並用於回購。我們的預期是每天都會在市場上進行回購；而在看到機會時，我們可能會加大力度。這大致就是我們一貫的操作方式。不過，這個 50 億美元的計畫，因為歐洲的要求，我們必須設定到期日，所以我們就把到期日設在大約 2023 年 7 月。但我們會持續執行、運用我們的多餘現金，而且我們會每天都在市場上。

Our next question comes from Peter Clark from Société Générale.

下一個問題來自法國興業銀行（Société Générale）的 Peter Clark。

Just a quick question for you, Steve, to begin with on the return on capital, you say, obviously, the most important metric, you're up, I think, over 300 basis points now, 13.4%. If I go back 10 years ago, Praxair hit the peak at 14.7%. Any reason with the platform you have now with Linde plc, why we can't see that continue to go up to that sort of level? And then following on from that, a very interesting announcement with Afrox, where obviously, you've delisted, you're talking about the opportunities here. I know it's relatively small in the context of Linde plc, but the operating margin there looks sort of mid-teens level for a clear leader in the market. Just wondering your thoughts within the context of what you do on efficiency and productivity for what sort of an example of what you can do in a business like that.

先給你一個簡短的問題，Steve，從資本報酬率談起。你說這顯然是最重要的指標，你們現在我想已經上升了超過 300 個基點，達到 13.4%。如果我回顧 10 年前，Praxair 的高峰是 14.7%。以你們現在 Linde plc 的平台來看，有什麼原因使得我們不能看到它繼續上升到那樣的水準嗎？接著，關於 Afrox 的一個很有意思的公告，你們顯然已經下市，並在談這裡的機會。我知道相對於 Linde plc 來說它規模較小，但作為市場上明顯的領導者，它的營業利潤率看起來大約在十幾%的中段。想請教你在效率與生產力提升方面的思考，像這樣的業務你們能做出什麼樣的示範。

Yes. Sure, Peter. Thanks for the questions. Yes, you are correct. I remember those numbers as well as you do. I didn't have to go look at them to know what we at Praxair want to operate at, which was pushing 15%. I don't see any reason why this business can't do that as well, continue to grow earnings kind of double-digit range. That obviously does a lot to drive the top-line and being very efficient in terms of how we allocate capital below the line. And we continue to get a little better at that all the time, continuing to invest in good return projects. Again, I see -- I'm not going to call it. It's -- somebody told me a long time ago, you give them a number or a date, but don't give them a number and a date. So that goes back to my GE days.

好的。當然可以，Peter。謝謝你的問題。是的，你說得沒錯。我也記得那些數字，就跟你一樣。我不需要回去查就知道我們在 Praxair 希望達到的營運水準，也就是接近 15%。我看不出有任何理由這個業務不能同樣做到，並持續以大約雙位數的區間成長獲利。這顯然對推動營收成長很有幫助，同時在損益表下方、也就是資本配置方面保持非常高的效率。我們也一直在這方面持續變得更好，不斷投資於高報酬的專案。再說一次，我看得到——我不打算下定論。有人很久以前告訴我：你可以給他們一個數字或一個日期，但不要同時給數字和日期。這是我在 GE 時期就學到的。

But I don't know when -- what year that's going to be, but it's something that's clearly in our sights. And 30% of our long-term incentive is tied to return on capital. So it has the highest weighting in our LTI. So I'm not the only one that thinks that's an important metric. I think we have thousands of people. I see Sanjiv smiling that we all know it's the same. Afrox is just -- is an example of our view in terms of portfolio optimization. I don't like joint ventures. Normally speaking, I think, especially for traditional industrial gas businesses. And this was a case, this company had a public float. So you can imagine the distractions that go with having a small business in a country like that with a public float.

但我不知道——會是哪一年達成，不過這顯然是我們的目標之一。而且我們長期激勵（LTI）中有 30% 與資本報酬率掛鉤，所以它在我們的 LTI 中權重最高。因此，不只是我一個人認為這是重要指標。我想我們有成千上萬的人都這麼認為。我看到 Sanjiv 在笑，我們都知道大家想法一致。Afrox 只是——我們在投資組合最佳化（portfolio optimization）觀點上的一個例子。我不喜歡合資企業。一般來說，尤其是對傳統的工業氣體業務而言。而這次的情況是，這家公司有公開流通股（public float）。所以你可以想像，在那樣一個國家經營一家規模不大的公司、又有公開流通股，會帶來各種分心與干擾。

And so by essentially eliminating the public float, buying all those shares, and being able to run that country just like any other country that we operate around the globe, we can focus on all the things that we know are important, which is making that business better every day, price management, efficiency, and there's quite a bit of opportunity and continue to grow cash flow, being very prudent with capital, working capital, safety, compliance, it's the same list for every country. So I'm pretty confident that we're going to see a pretty nice step-up in that case. But there are other examples of that, too, that clearly is on our target list of places that we want to, I'll say, season and control so we can run them the way we think they should be run.

因此，透過基本上消除公開流通股、買下所有那些股份，並能夠像我們在全球其他國家一樣來經營該國業務，我們就能專注在我們知道很重要的所有事情上：也就是每天把業務做得更好、價格管理、效率提升，而且機會相當多；並持續成長現金流，在資本、營運資金方面非常審慎，安全、合規——每個國家都是同一份清單。所以我相當有信心，在這個案例中我們會看到相當不錯的躍升。不過也還有其他類似的例子；這顯然也在我們的目標清單上——我們希望能夠我會說，讓它們成熟並取得控制權，這樣我們就能用我們認為應該的方式來運作。

Our next question comes from Jeff Zekauskas from JPMorgan.

下一個問題來自摩根大通（JPMorgan）的 Jeff Zekauskas。

Your cost of goods sold was down year-over-year in the fourth quarter, and your revenues were up, I don't know, a couple of hundred million. Can you explain that? And secondly, when you look across your divisions, which is the division, which is the geographic area with the most margin opportunity from here going forward?

你們第四季的銷貨成本（cost of goods sold）年對年下降，但營收卻上升了，我不知道，大概幾億美元。你能解釋一下嗎？第二個問題，當你檢視各個事業部門時，從現在往後看，哪一個部門、哪一個地理區域有最大的利潤率提升空間？

All of them. I'm going to -- I think -- I really -- I think Asia certainly has some opportunities. I know Sanjiv would agree with that. He made a lot of progress in a very short period of time, but he would see more going forward. I think in EMEA, I mean certainly a 25% EBIT, you probably surprised some people with the quality of that performance. But we have more work to do there. And we've really kind of just been getting into running EMEA the way that we know an industrial gas company should be run. They've made excellent strides, and I'm very proud of everything they've done there on price management, on efficiencies, but there's more continuous improvement that can take place there, and they know that, too.

全部。我會——我認為——我真的——我認為亞洲當然有一些機會。我知道 Sanjiv 會同意。他在很短的時間內取得了很大進展，但他也會看到未來還有更多。我認為在 EMEA，我是說，當然 25% 的 EBIT，你可能讓一些人對這樣的表現品質感到驚訝。但我們在那裡還有更多工作要做。而且我們其實才剛開始把 EMEA 以我們所知道的、工業氣體公司應該如何運作的方式來管理。他們已經取得了非常出色的進展，我也為他們在價格管理、效率提升方面所做的一切感到非常自豪，但那裡仍然可以進一步做持續改善，他們自己也知道。

So maybe Asia and EMEA may have a little more opportunity than the Americas, but no one gets a pass, no one gets to declare a victory. And we think there's opportunity everywhere. And just like I said, Afrox, there's a bunch of those scattered around that we can continue to improve.

所以也許亞洲和 EMEA 的機會會比美洲稍多一些，但沒有人可以被放過，沒有人可以宣告勝利。我們認為到處都有機會。就像我說的 Afrox，那樣的案例還散落在各處，我們可以持續改善。

David -- sorry, Jeff -- this is Matt. I can try and help on the COGS one. I mean it's going to be a couple of things, as you can imagine. Clearly, with the synergies, while the fixed costs we were able to get at early in most regions, the variable costs tend to take a little more programs, sometimes they take some capital. And as we've been evolving on that, we've got a better stride there. Also, as you know, the engineering business, it runs most things through COGS, and they had a margin expansion. They were running better through some of their absorption as they were more efficient on how they executed projects and completed projects. That would also have an effect on that given they run through inventory and COGS on a percent completion.

David——抱歉，Jeff——我是 Matt。我可以試著協助回答銷貨成本（COGS）那個問題。我的意思是，正如你可以想像的，會有幾個因素。很明顯地，隨著協同效益（synergies），雖然我們在多數地區較早就能處理固定成本，但變動成本通常需要更多方案，有時也需要一些資本投入。隨著我們在這方面持續推進，我們的節奏也更到位了。另外，如你所知，工程業務大多把成本走在 COGS 裡，而他們的利潤率擴張了。他們在吸收（absorption）方面表現更好，因為在專案執行與完工上更有效率。由於他們採用完工百分比法（percent completion）並透過存貨與 COGS 反映，這也會對該項目產生影響。

So a little bit of mix, but also a lot of the effort around the world to just improve the efficiencies across our whole cost stack, not just fixed cost, but variable costs as well. So this is an area that we're going to continue to focus on as part of our productivity programs, which is part of our DNA.

所以有一點組合（mix）的因素，但也有很多是全球各地為了提升整個成本結構效率所做的努力，不只是固定成本，也包括變動成本。因此，這是我們會持續聚焦的領域，作為我們生產力計畫的一部分，而這也是我們的 DNA。

Our next question comes from Duffy Fischer from Barclays.

下一個問題來自巴克萊（Barclays）的 Duffy Fischer。

Congrats on a good quarter. First question is just around the healthcare business. Obviously, last year was very volatile within healthcare, a lot of COVID stuff, but a lot of other stuff that didn't happen in hospitals. So I was wondering if you could just walk us through what was the impact of healthcare on the volume price numbers for the Americas and for Europe where it's sizable? And then just a follow-on, when COVID finally gets put back in the bottle, is there going to be a speed bump there where things are going to decline for a little bit before they can start growing again?

恭喜你們有一個很好的季度。第一個問題是關於醫療保健業務。顯然去年醫療保健非常波動，有很多 COVID 相關需求，但也有很多其他在醫院裡本來會發生的事情沒有發生。所以我想請你們帶我們梳理一下：醫療保健對美洲與歐洲（那裡占比不小）的量價（volume/price）數字分別造成了什麼影響？接著一個追問，當 COVID 最終被控制住之後，會不會出現一個「減速帶」，也就是在重新恢復成長之前，相關需求會先下降一段時間？

Well, while Matt's looking at that number, I'll kind of give some.

嗯，在 Matt 查那個數字的同時，我先稍微說一些。

He has it.

他有了。

But I'll just give some commentary on that. Clearly, we had to ramp up a lot of healthcare capabilities around the world to fight COVID. Unfortunately, that's not going to be behind us for a while. I think we can see -- you can look at the pace of vaccinations and the advance of these new variants, and I think it's very possible that these variants are going to outpace the world's ability to vaccinate the population. And therefore, they're going to be consuming a lot of action well into 2021. And we might be talking about this again in, this time in 2022.

不過我先補充一些評論。很明顯地，我們必須在全球各地快速提升許多醫療保健能力來對抗 COVID。不幸的是，這件事短期內不會結束。我想我們可以看到——你可以看看疫苗接種的速度，以及這些新變異株的進展，我認為很有可能這些變異株會跑贏全球為人口接種疫苗的能力。因此，它們會在 2021 年很長一段時間內持續占用大量資源與行動。而且我們可能會在 2022 年的這個時候再次談到這件事。

So I don't think this is going away anytime soon. You correctly pointed out that while we're providing more oxygen to fight COVID, that there are people that are not having elective surgeries, they didn't go into hospitals. Hospitals are focused, obviously, on fighting this primary virus. And so there's not as much oxygen that's being sold for more of the elective type or more of the non -- more of the traditional types of activities.

所以我不認為這會在短期內消失。你也正確指出，雖然我們提供更多氧氣來對抗 COVID，但也有一些人沒有進行選擇性手術，他們沒有進醫院。醫院顯然把重心放在對抗這個主要病毒上。因此，用於較多選擇性類型、或較非——更傳統類型活動的氧氣銷售量就沒有那麼多。

I think post-COVID, obviously, the latter will come back. I do think that our businesses like Lincare have clearly demonstrated to the government and large managed care operators how important it is to have a very strong, capable with wide breadth of capability services, nurses, clinicians, the whole works, that can step in and be a very strong second line of defense for hospitals.

我認為在後 COVID 時期，顯然後者會回來。我確實認為，像 Lincare 這樣的業務已經清楚向政府以及大型管理式醫療機構證明，擁有一個非常強大、能力完備且服務範圍廣泛的體系——包含護理人員、臨床人員以及整套資源——是多麼重要；這些資源能夠介入，成為醫院非常強而有力的第二道防線。

And so I think in terms of pandemic preparedness going forward, I think we're in a new world now with respect to our relationship with the government. I feel very confident about that. And so I think that's going to be a positive. So that's a, I guess, a silver lining, if you will, of this COVID. It gave us a chance to demonstrate what we could do on a home care basis, not just a broad hospital basis. But it might be this time next year before really talking about a world after COVID. And of course, as oxygen subsides, maybe to fight specifically COVID, then the manufacturing side of the business, the industrial side of the business, there will be more volumes going that way. I mean I can talk about oxygen being up quite a bit. I can also look at argon still being down quite a bit because manufacturing has not come back yet. And so there are trade-offs, obviously.

因此，我認為就未來的疫情整備而言，我覺得我們與政府的關係已進入一個新世界。我對此非常有信心。因此我認為這會是正面的。這也算是這次 COVID 的一線曙光（silver lining），如果你願意這麼說的話。它讓我們有機會展示我們在居家照護層面能做什麼，而不只是廣義上的醫院層面。但可能要到明年這個時候，才會真正開始談論一個後 COVID 的世界。當然，隨著氧氣需求下降——也許是特別用於對抗 COVID 的需求下降——那麼業務中的製造端、工業端，將會有更多的量回流到那一邊。我的意思是，我可以談到氧氣需求上升了不少；我也可以看到氬氣仍然下降很多，因為製造業尚未回來。所以顯然存在取捨。

Great. And then maybe just 1 on cash flow. So, Matt, you hit on a lot of it, but EBITDA up $500 million roughly in the year; op cash, up $1.3 billion. How should we think about the ratio of op cash to EBITDA going forward?

很好。那再問一個關於現金流的問題。Matt，你已經提到很多了，但全年 EBITDA 大約增加 5 億美元；營運現金流增加 13 億美元。我們應該如何看待未來營運現金流相對於 EBITDA 的比率？

Duffy, yes, I can answer that. So we've said low 80s. Obviously, we've been doing better than that. We finished mid-80s here this year. We still did have in 2020 roughly $250 million of cash related to merger outflows. As you recall about a year ago, we've said we expect that number to kind of decline down to about $200 million, $250 million. But I think we were pretty close on that. Looking into 2021, maybe it will be $100 million to $200 million, and they'll start to just phase out by the end of next year -- or end of this year, 2021.

Duffy，是的，我可以回答。我們之前說過是低 80% 區間。顯然我們做得比那更好，今年我們落在 80% 中段。2020 年我們仍有約 2.5 億美元與併購相關的現金流出。如你所記得，大約一年前我們說過，我們預期這個數字會下降到約 2 億到 2.5 億美元。我認為我們與該預期相當接近。展望 2021 年，可能會是 1 億到 2 億美元，並且到明年年底——或今年 2021 年年底——就會開始逐步消退。

So I still am gunning for low 80s, and we obviously internally want to do better than that, and we'd like to try and maintain these mid-80s where we can. But in the 80 percentiles is where we want to be. And obviously, there's seasonality patterns, as you know, to our cash, so Q4s are higher, Q1s tend to be lower, but this is something we look to grind higher and improve on year on, year out.

所以我仍然以低 80% 為目標，而我們內部當然希望做得更好，也希望在可行的情況下維持這種 80% 中段的水準。但我們希望落在 80% 區間。當然，如你所知，我們的現金流有季節性型態，所以第四季通常較高、第一季往往較低，但這是我們希望逐步推升、並且逐年持續改善的項目。

Our next question comes from Vincent Andrews from Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利（Morgan Stanley）的 Vincent Andrews。

Maybe just to start off with, you mentioned -- Sanjiv mentioned the renewable diesel opportunity. I think that's what you're speaking about when you speak about biofuels. How do you think about that? I presume that's more of a merchant opportunity than an on-site opportunity, but I'm just thinking about that business being very reliant on government subsidies. So how do you think about servicing that industry and customer base?

先從這裡開始，你提到——Sanjiv 提到了再生柴油的機會。我想你在談生質燃料時指的就是這個。你怎麼看待這件事？我推測這比較像是商售（merchant）機會，而不是現場供應（on-site）機會，但我在想這個業務非常依賴政府補貼。所以你如何看待服務這個產業與客戶群？

Thanks, Vince. So let me kind of just elaborate on the point I made earlier on, which is that we see a developing opportunity around the biofuel. We see both some regulatory pressure there, which is kind of driving the demand. And therefore, we see interest in kind of growing that pace. Now we don't see that as a merchant opportunity, we see that as an on-site opportunity. The hydrogen requirements are reasonably substantial. We're looking at a number of projects at the moment where we are working with folks who are looking at developing that further. So we see that increase in the market, we see the demand coming through, we see the interest driven from a couple of different governments who are kind of providing some sponsorship for that, governmental agencies that are providing sponsor for that in the U.S. in particular. And we see that as an area where more hydrogen is needed because the process itself requires greater hydroprocessing and hydrotreating.

謝謝，Vince。讓我稍微延伸我先前提到的重點，也就是我們看到生質燃料周邊正在形成的機會。我們看到一些監管壓力，這在某種程度上推動了需求。因此我們也看到市場對於加快成長步伐的興趣。現在，我們不把它視為商售（merchant）機會，而是視為現場供應（on-site）機會。氫氣需求相當可觀。我們目前正在評估多個專案，並與一些希望進一步發展這一領域的夥伴合作。所以我們看到市場的成長、看到需求浮現、也看到來自幾個不同政府的興趣驅動——特別是在美國，有政府機構提供某種形式的支持。我們也認為這會是需要更多氫氣的領域，因為該製程本身需要更高程度的加氫加工（hydroprocessing）與加氫精製（hydrotreating）。

Okay. And as a follow-up, could we just get an update on the trends in hardgoods versus packaged gas sales in the U.S.?

好的。那作為追問，我們能否請你更新一下美國硬體商品（hardgoods）相較於瓶裝氣體（packaged gas）銷售的趨勢？

Yes. I'll take that. If we look at the fourth quarter, it's flat to probably slightly up year-over-year on packaged gases in the U.S. And so we kind of got back to normal. Gas is a little stronger than hardgoods in Q4. As I look at January coming out of the blocks, the trend is stronger. So gases looks in pretty good shape and hardgoods is still slightly negative at this point, but gases looks stronger than what I saw in Q4. So what drives that? Agriculture is doing well, automotives have been strong. Apparently, a lot of people are buying recreational vehicles, maybe some of you on the phone are buying them too. And specialty gases continues to be strong.

可以，我來回答。如果看第四季，美國的瓶裝氣體年對年持平到小幅成長。因此我們算是回到正常。第四季氣體表現比硬體商品稍強。再看 1 月的開局趨勢，走勢更強。所以氣體看起來狀況不錯，而硬體商品目前仍是小幅負成長，但氣體看起來比我在第四季看到的更強。那是什麼在驅動？農業表現良好，汽車產業也很強。顯然很多人在買休旅車（recreational vehicles），也許電話上的各位也有人在買。特用氣體（specialty gases）也持續強勁。

Our next question comes from Steve Byrne from Bank of America.

下一個問題來自美國銀行（Bank of America）的 Steve Byrne。

I got to believe that you're among the largest electricity consumers in the regions that you operate, and I suspect it gives you significant negotiating power for rates. In one of your slides, you mentioned more than 1/3 of the pricing that you are getting on that versus carbon-based energy sources and maybe more broadly. Do you see this as giving you an advantage in green hydrogen?

我相信你們在所營運的地區中，應該是最大的用電戶之一，我猜這讓你們在電價談判上有相當大的議價能力。在你們其中一張投影片裡，你提到你們在那方面取得的定價中，超過 1/3 是相對於碳基能源來源，或更廣泛地來看。你是否認為這會讓你們在綠氫方面具備優勢？

Like, for example, this 24-megawatt electrolyzer that you're going to build in Leuna, Germany, I can only imagine that the contract that you're going to get on the power or the electricity just to drive that electrolyzer has to be significantly different than if ITM were bidding on that job on their own.

例如，你們將在德國 Leuna 建置的 24 兆瓦電解槽，我只能想像，你們為了驅動該電解槽所取得的電力合約條件，必然會與 ITM 自己單獨競標該案時大不相同。

Yes. I think that's a good point. And that project specifically, there's 2 ways you can buy power: you can buy it off the grid, you can use your green certificates as part of -- this is all part of the renewable energy directive, something like that. I don't remember the name exactly. And then also we can negotiate directly with the utilities, which we have been doing. I feel very confident with where we're going to come out. The way we think about renewable energy, obviously, we are a large user, which gives us some advantages. And being able to combine that to make green hydrogen or make green hydrogen by using renewable power source in terms of just which you can get off the grid through electrolysis, I think is important to being able to produce and sell 100% carbon-free hydrogen.

是的，我認為這是個好觀點。就那個專案而言，購電有兩種方式：你可以從電網購電；你也可以使用你的綠電憑證作為其中一部分——這都屬於再生能源指令（renewable energy directive）之類的架構，我不太記得確切名稱。另外，我們也可以直接與公用事業單位談判，而我們一直在這麼做。我對我們最後會談到的結果非常有信心。就我們看待再生能源而言，顯然我們是大型用戶，這給了我們一些優勢。能夠把這些結合起來製造綠氫，或透過使用再生電力來源（例如透過電網取得的再生電力）進行電解來製造綠氫，我認為對於能夠生產並銷售 100% 零碳氫氣非常重要。

The pricing that we see, I mean we have a fairly sophisticated group of people because, again, we buy a lot -- we buy -- I think it's $3 billion last year of power around the world. So we buy a lot of power. We're pretty sophisticated in terms of how we negotiate contracts. What I've seen, it's been on par with what we would normally get and so we're not looking to sacrifice economics to claim we have a higher percent renewable, we want to accomplish both. And I think we're up to 37% renewable now. I think we were at 34% or so, 33% maybe a couple of years ago. So we're making some progress. The goal was to double the original number. And if I remember right, that's like going from $1 billion of renewable power purchases to about $2 billion. So it is something that we're focused on here, and it's obviously -- if the ultimate goal is to be carbon neutral by some date, then obviously, by either proactively contract renewable power or just countries naturally green their grids, it's going to be an important part of how we ultimately get there.

就我們看到的定價而言——我們有一個相當成熟的團隊，因為我們買很多——我們去年在全球購電，我想大約是 30 億美元。所以我們買很多電。我們在合約談判方式上相當成熟。我所看到的結果，與我們通常能取得的條件大致相當，因此我們不打算為了宣稱我們有更高比例的再生能源而犧牲經濟性，我們希望兩者都能達成。我想我們現在的再生能源占比已到 37%。我記得幾年前大約是 34% 左右，或 33% 吧。所以我們正在取得一些進展。目標是把原本的數字翻倍。如果我沒記錯，那大概是把再生電力採購從 10 億美元提高到約 20 億美元。因此這是我們在此聚焦的事情，而且顯然——如果最終目標是在某個日期前達到碳中和，那麼不論是主動簽訂再生電力合約，或是各國自然地讓其電網更綠化，這都將是我們最終達成目標的重要一環。

And Steve, you're a couple years into this merger, you mentioned productivity as a margin driver in all 3 segments. Where would you say you are in -- what inning are you in, in this vision that you had about where this merger could get in terms of the structure and to improve the productivity of the merged entity, where would you say you are at in that process?

Steve，你們併購整合已經進行了幾年，你提到生產力是三個事業部門的毛利率驅動因素。就你當初對這次併購在組織架構與提升合併後實體生產力方面的願景而言，你會說你們目前進行到哪一局（inning）？在這個過程中你會說你們處於什麼階段？

Steve, I'm going to jump in here. This is Sanjiv. Just to give you a quick flavor of that. And I'm going to try and cover that from 2 different aspects. So I think Steve and I spent a lot of time talking about this. This is something that we see deeply embedded in our businesses. I've described this previously on previous conversations we've had in the earnings call saying, I see the fact that we've got productivity entrenched in the business at a level where we've got to generate in different countries, hundreds of projects to make sure that they are actually delivering on a continuous basis. And I think you've heard Steve say this before, every day, we look at our business, and we kind of figure out how we can be better than we were yesterday.

Steve，我先插一句。這裡是 Sanjiv。先快速讓你感受一下情況。我會嘗試從兩個不同面向來說明。所以我想 Steve 和我花了很多時間在討論這件事。這是我們在各項業務中看到深度內嵌的一件事。我在先前的對話、在法說會上也曾描述過：我看到生產力已在業務中根深蒂固，到了我們必須在不同國家推動數百個專案，確保它們能持續交付成果的程度。我想你也聽 Steve 以前說過：每天我們都會檢視業務，並想辦法讓自己比昨天更好。

So it is a continuous program. It's something that's deeply entrenched in the business. It's something that's embedded in the DNA of people who work in our business, and we look at it every day. It isn't a program that we run, it's something that we live and breathe. So that's kind of the cultural aspect of productivity if you like. And I mean I can ask Steve later on, but I feel that he agrees with my view that we've made substantial progress on this journey. This was new to half the organization if you will, but the way they've embraced it and kind of move forward with it has been very, very encouraging.

所以這是一個持續性的計畫。它深深扎根在業務之中，也內嵌在我們員工的 DNA 裡，我們每天都在看它。這不是我們「跑」的一個專案，而是我們日常生活、呼吸的一部分。這就是你若願意的話，生產力的文化面向。我之後也可以問 Steve，但我覺得他同意我的看法：我們在這段旅程上已取得實質進展。對組織中一半的人來說，這算是新事物，但他們擁抱它並持續推進的方式，讓人非常、非常振奮。

I want to give you a different slant on productivity as well. One of the things that we drive at is sustainable productivity. Productivity that helps our sustainability targets and ensuring that we're contributing to those goals that we set up. And we do that through making sure we've got sustainability initiatives, again, within the business on efficiency, on energy management, on managing emissions, et cetera, which all of which actually contribute not just to the bottom line, which is very important for me, but also impacted the sustainability goals that we've set up as well.

我也想從另一個角度談生產力。我們推動的一件事是「可持續的生產力」——能夠支持我們的永續目標，並確保我們對所設定的目標有所貢獻的生產力。我們透過確保在業務內部有永續倡議來做到這點，例如效率提升、能源管理、排放管理等等；這些不僅會貢獻於損益（這對我非常重要），也會影響我們所設定的永續目標。

And again, I'd say there's a lot more work to be done, but we are really off to a great start in that space. So as I see it, I think we are well on our way on this journey. Obviously, we can see a lot of benefit ahead of us if we continue to keep the pace and momentum on this.

同樣地，我會說還有很多工作要做，但我們在這個領域確實有一個非常好的開始。就我所見，我認為我們在這段旅程上已走在正確的路上。很明顯，如果我們能持續保持速度與動能，前方還有很多效益可期。

Just one more point to add to that. Sanjiv covered it beautifully. If you go back and look at again, Praxair's history, if you go back and look at that 25-year history, we grew earnings per share double digits over that 25-year time span, and that's through recessions, that's through weak growth periods, that's through energy crisis, commodity bust. I mean you name all of that. And we were able to do it not because volume was just tremendously strong for 25 years, it was a factor, but clearly, good price management and strong productivity.

再補充一點。Sanjiv 講得非常到位。若你回頭再看 Praxair 的歷史，回頭看那 25 年的歷史，我們在那 25 年期間每股盈餘以雙位數成長——而且經歷過衰退、低成長時期、能源危機、商品崩跌等等，你能想到的都有。我們能做到這點，不是因為 25 年來的量一直都非常強勁；量是一個因素，但更清楚的是，良好的價格管理與強勁的生產力。

And that's -- so we have a track record of knowing how to do this. And the fact that we now have a much larger organization that hasn't been added quite so long, I think, is very encouraging. I am very pleased and very proud of what really the whole organization has done in terms of grabbing on to productivity. But it's not a 3-year, 5-year, 10-year, 25-year thing, it's something that you do for the rest of your life.

所以——我們有一個知道如何做到這件事的實績。而現在我們有一個更大的組織，且我認為加入的時間還沒有那麼久，這點非常令人鼓舞。我對整個組織在「抓住」生產力這件事上所做的努力感到非常滿意、也非常自豪。但這不是 3 年、5 年、10 年、25 年的事，而是你一輩子都要做的事。

Our next question comes from P.J. Juvekar from Citi.

下一個問題來自 Citi 的 P.J. Juvekar。

Steve, on these calls, you said before that green hydrogen costs are high, and they need to come down by 50% to be competitive. Your 24-megawatt sort of green hydrogen project in Leuna, what is the sensitivity of that project to price of green hydrogen, which is likely to fall in the coming years? And how do you plan for that for a project like that?

Steve，在這些電話會議上，你之前說過綠氫成本很高，必須下降 50% 才能具備競爭力。你們在 Leuna 的 24 兆瓦綠氫專案，對綠氫價格（未來幾年可能下滑）的敏感度如何？像這樣的專案你們如何做規劃？

Well, obviously, this project, it met our return criteria. I mean the costs are higher. Why? Because renewable power costs are still relatively high around the world. They need to come down as we scale up. So I'm kind of looking at as you get into bigger projects. So that's a factor. This is a relatively large PEM. As I said, it's the largest one announced, 24 megawatts. So this is not where it's going to be 10 years from now in terms of cost. It's at kind of the early days in terms of producing projects of this size. So the CapEx costs are higher, the OpEx costs are higher. So we know costs need to come down, both through the whole electrolysis process, but also in the renewable power. Renewable power is a significant factor of that. So those costs are going to come down.

嗯，很明顯，這個專案符合我們的報酬率標準。我的意思是，成本確實較高。為什麼？因為全球的再生能源電力成本仍相對偏高。隨著規模擴大，這些成本需要下降。所以我會把它放在你進入更大型專案的脈絡下來看，這是一個因素。這是一個相對大型的 PEM。如我所說，這是目前宣布中最大的，24 兆瓦。所以就成本而言，這不是 10 年後會處於的水準。就這種規模的專案而言，現在仍屬於早期階段。因此資本支出（CapEx）較高、營運支出（OpEx）也較高。我們知道成本需要下降：一方面是整個電解流程，另一方面是再生能源電力；再生能源電力是其中一個重要因素。所以這些成本會下降。

We clearly received subsidies in this project. In fact, most of these projects, we do receive subsidies. So that clearly helps with these projects. And that's probably important until the costs do come down so that green hydrogen can be competitive, I'd say, on its own with gray hydrogen. Though there's always going to be some gap, but I think closing that gap is very important. And obviously, a carbon price as it's assigned to carbon molecules in the future will help do that. But this project works. Obviously, we have negotiations that have been completed before we ever made the announcement. So we know that the prices work.

我們在這個專案中很明確地獲得了補助。事實上，多數這類專案我們都會獲得補助，所以這對專案很有幫助。而在成本下降、使綠氫能夠在自身條件下與灰氫競爭之前，補助可能都相當重要。我會說兩者之間可能永遠會有一些差距，但縮小這個差距非常重要。當然，未來若對碳分子賦予碳價，將有助於做到這點。但這個專案是可行的。很明顯，我們在宣布之前就已完成談判，所以我們知道價格是可行的。

But there certainly are sensitivities around the market price on the non-contracted piece like there would be with any merchant liquid business. And there's sensitivities around the input side on renewable power. And we took very conservative assumptions going into this, thinking that we probably were going to end up with a better deal that would help us when we finally conclude the power negotiations. So that's how I'd answer that. But you're right. I've said 50%, it's probably 60% is probably closer to the truth.

但確實存在一些敏感度：在未簽約的那一部分，會受到市場價格影響，就像任何商售液體（merchant liquid）業務一樣；在投入端，則對再生能源電力也有敏感度。我們在做這個案子時採用了非常保守的假設，認為在最終完成電力談判時，我們很可能會拿到更好的條件，進而對我們有利。所以我會這樣回答。不過你說得對。我之前說 50%，但可能 60% 更接近事實。

Okay. And just a quick long-term question on refining. The writing is on the wall. If you see announcements in California, what GM said recently that diesel and gasoline demand is going to go down by 2030, 2035. So what is the future of the hydrogen business? And can those plants be repurposed into making green hydrogen or something else?

好的。再問一個關於煉油的長期問題。趨勢已很明顯了。如果你看加州的相關公告，以及 GM 最近說柴油與汽油需求將在 2030、2035 年前後下降。那麼氫氣業務的未來是什麼？這些工廠能否改作生產綠氫或其他用途？

Yes. I mean I think the answer to your question is, yes, they can be repurposed. And unlike perhaps other industries, you got to keep in mind, they use a lot of hydrogen today. You know that, but it's gray hydrogen. So dropping in blue hydrogen, which I think would probably be a very good solution for them and even green. If you look at Texas, there's lots of renewable power. There's obviously lots of natural gas. You have depleted oil reservoir. So I think blue or green can be substituted for gray. I think it'd be very helpful to refineries if the costs come down to enable that.

可以。我的意思是，我對你問題的答案是：可以，它們可以被改造再利用。而且不同於其他一些產業，你要記得他們今天就使用大量氫氣。你知道這點，但那是灰氫。所以導入藍氫——我認為對他們可能是非常好的解決方案——甚至是綠氫。如果你看德州，那裡有大量再生能源電力，也顯然有大量天然氣，還有枯竭的油藏。所以我認為藍氫或綠氫可以替代灰氫。如果成本能下降以促成這件事，對煉油廠會非常有幫助。

So there is some ability to do that. And I think that's going to happen. I think longer term, it's kind of like probably other industries in the past that have been -- haven't -- have seen their better growth days perhaps. I'm not the official spokesman on what happens in the refining industry. But what I think is you take a place like the U.S. Gulf Coast, which you have very strong, large scale, very efficient refineries. They can use -- you know the story, they can use heavier sweet feedstocks. They're very complex refineries. They can produce a full suite of transportation fuels. They're heavily integrated with the petrochemical industry at large in the U.S. Gulf Coast. So I happen to think that if people think they're going to turn into a dinosaur, they'll probably be -- the last dinosaurs walking around are going to be down in the U.S. Gulf Coast.

所以確實有一定的可行性，我也認為這會發生。長期來看，這有點像過去其他一些產業——可能已經過了它們的高成長時期。我不是煉油產業未來走向的官方發言人。但我認為，你看像美國墨西哥灣沿岸這樣的地方，那裡有非常強大、大規模、效率很高的煉油廠。它們可以使用——你知道那套說法——更重的甜原料；它們是非常複雜的煉油廠，能生產完整系列的運輸燃料；並且在美國墨西哥灣沿岸與整體石化產業高度整合。所以我剛好認為，如果有人覺得它們會變成恐龍，那最後還在走動的恐龍，可能會是在美國墨西哥灣沿岸那一帶。

Next question comes from John McNulty from BMO Capital Markets.

下一個問題來自 BMO Capital Markets 的 John McNulty。

Steve, you had mentioned in, I guess, your opening remarks that you had a couple projects that it sounded like you were close to closing on the carbon capture side. I guess, can you help us to understand if, with all the green talk, we've actually reached a tipping point when it comes to carbon capture? And if so, I guess, how are you thinking about sizing the opportunity as you look out, say, over the next 3 to 5 years?

Steve，你在開場致詞中提到，我想，你有幾個在碳捕捉方面聽起來快要完成簽約的專案。你能否幫我們理解一下：在這麼多「綠色」討論之下，碳捕捉是否已經到達一個臨界點？如果是的話，當你往外看未來 3 到 5 年時，你如何思考這個機會的規模？

I mean there are several projects we have in our sites that we're close to closing where we need the CO2 for commercial purposes. So the customer has an incentive with the cost of CO2 emissions going up. They have an incentive to have us capture that carbon, and we have a use for it in terms of commercial, whether it's for greenhouses, whether it's for -- to make dry ice, pH control, carbon -- carbonation of beverages, all of those are uses of CO2.

我的意思是，我們在各據點有好幾個專案已接近結案，而這些專案出於商業用途需要 CO2。所以，隨著 CO2 排放成本上升，客戶就有誘因。他們有誘因讓我們去捕捉那個碳，而我們在商業上也有用途，不論是用於溫室，或是——製作乾冰、pH 控制、碳——飲料碳酸化，這些都是 CO2 的用途。

So we have specific projects which I think certainly help with the economics where you have an end market use for the CO2. We have several projects like that. We have others that we have worked on or working on with, say, coal-fired utilities that are looking at carbon capture. We obviously have solutions around -- we have multiple solutions around carbon capture, but it can be post-combustion, it can be pre-combustion. And I think for some of those to move forward, particularly in a place like the United States, you need a more defined cost of carbon, of CO2. But I think when that happens and you have to think that this administration is very determined to make that happen, you will see some of these projects move forward. I don't think it's going to be as large as I look at it today. I could be wrong as perhaps the straight hydrogen opportunities, but they can be significant, too.

所以我們有一些特定專案，我認為這些專案確實有助於經濟性，因為 CO2 有終端市場用途。我們有好幾個這樣的專案。我們也有其他專案，是我們曾經做過或正在與例如燃煤公用事業合作、他們在評估碳捕捉。我們顯然在——碳捕捉方面有多種解決方案，但可以是燃燒後捕捉，也可以是燃燒前捕捉。我認為其中一些要往前推進，特別是在美國這樣的地方，你需要更明確的碳成本、CO2 成本。但我認為當那發生時，而且你必須認為本屆政府非常堅定要促成這件事，你會看到其中一些專案往前推進。我不認為它會像我今天看起來那麼大。我可能錯了，或許像純氫的機會一樣，但它們也可能很可觀。

Got it. Thanks for the color on that. And then I guess, just one question on pricing. So we look at the trends regionally, it seems like, at least the ones that you're reporting, Asia doesn't seem to have quite as robust of maybe a pricing dynamic. And I guess the question is, is that a function of the business mix that you have, where you have some of these huge electronics applications, where maybe there's not a lot of merchant or packaged product, or was it really just more competitive dynamic in those regions? I guess, how should we be thinking about that?

了解。謝謝你提供這些補充說明。接著我想再問一個關於定價的問題。我們從區域趨勢來看，似乎——至少就你們所揭露的——亞洲的定價動能看起來沒有那麼強勁。我想問的是，這是你們業務組合的結果嗎？例如你們有一些大型電子應用，可能沒有太多散裝（merchant）或瓶裝產品；還是說那真的只是那些地區競爭態勢更激烈？我們應該如何看待這件事？

So let me jump in. This is Sanjiv here. Let me kind of give you a little bit of color on that. So the market in Asia Pacific, as you might imagine, is quite varied and the largest market in there for us is obviously China. So the dynamic around pricing that we see is twofold. One, obviously, we have many large on-site projects. So obviously, from a portfolio perspective, the opportunity around the merchant side pricing impact that we can fully bring to bear is a little bit more limited than potentially some of the other segments. But more importantly, I think in a market like China where we've got some significant end-user customers, which is where we focus our efforts and energy on. But at times, we would use the distributor model as well to make sure that we've got our plants running at optimal levels. And in 2020, in particular, that became quite important.

我來補充一下。我是 Sanjiv。我稍微提供一些背景。亞太市場如你所想相當多樣化，而我們在那裡最大的市場顯然是中國。所以我們看到的定價動態有兩個面向。第一，顯然我們有許多大型現場供氣（on-site）專案。因此從投資組合角度來看，我們能夠完全發揮的、在散裝市場端的定價影響，相較於其他一些事業部門可能更有限。但更重要的是，我認為在像中國這樣的市場，我們有一些重要的終端用戶客戶，我們的努力與資源主要聚焦在那裡。不過有時我們也會採用經銷商模式，以確保我們的工廠以最佳水準運轉。而在 2020 年，尤其這點變得相當重要。

So we wanted to make sure that channel was fully utilized. And when you do that, then the pricing impact actually does get moderated down a little bit. You've seen that happen in 2020. It is an area of focus. And just as I talked about productivity, the other piece I'd say is pricing is an area of focus every day. And the guys in China, in particular, know that we are watching that very carefully. We review that every month at the GbR and they do have a bit of a tough time around that. So there is a lot of action happening in the marketplace around that, which hopefully will reflect in the quarters ahead.

所以我們希望確保那個通路被充分利用。而當你這麼做時，定價影響確實會被稍微壓低一些。你已經在 2020 年看到這種情況。這是我們的重點領域。就像我談到生產力一樣，我要說的另一點是：定價也是每天都在關注的重點。尤其是中國的團隊知道我們非常密切地在看這件事。我們每個月都會在 GbR 檢視，他們在這方面確實有點吃力。所以市場上有很多動作正在發生，希望能在接下來幾季反映出來。

And our last question comes from Laurence Alexander from Jefferies.

我們最後一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Laurence Alexander。

2 questions. One is, what do you see as a reasonable timeline for blending of hydrogen into natural gas pipelines for heating applications becoming material for Linde in Europe or the U.S.?

兩個問題。第一個是：你認為將氫氣摻混進天然氣管線、用於供暖應用，何時會在歐洲或美國對林德（Linde）變得具有實質影響？你認為合理的時間表是什麼？

And secondly, with respect to acquisitions and how you think about the boundaries for the business model, if we think about like kind of the forays that you've done into adjacencies, specialty gases for healthcare, electronic chemicals, co jet, there's been -- where do you see kind of logical extensions of the business model? I mean for example, like remote monitoring of industrial boilers. Or would you ever engage in vertical integrations or total production of ammonia or methanol? Just how do you see the boundary conditions for what you would look at in terms of either acquisitions or flexing the business model a bit?

第二個是：關於併購，以及你如何看待商業模式的邊界。如果我們想到你們在相鄰領域的嘗試，例如醫療保健用特種氣體、電子化學品、co jet，已經有——你認為商業模式合乎邏輯的延伸會在哪裡？例如，像工業鍋爐的遠端監控。或者你們會做垂直整合，或是完整生產氨或甲醇嗎？你如何看待你們在併購或稍微調整商業模式時，會考量的邊界條件？

Yes. Well, I think -- as I think about that question, Laurence, there are so many uses for our basic core products, CO2, oxygen, our rare gases, all of our products that they become new uses, and we talk about CO2 for greenhouse gases. And of course, you have this little thing called cannabis, which is a growing marketplace. Dry ice for biopharma, dry ice to carry it back. Dry ice has been around a long time. So there we continue to find good uses and applications, new uses and applications in markets that are growing. If you look at commercial space, we're selling hydrogen. We're selling oxygen. We are selling nitrogen as rocket propellants, they call it. And what is used depends on the rocket and the platform and the company. We also sell rare gases that are used in, I'll call it, satellite mobility.

是的。嗯，我想——當我思考這個問題時，Laurence，我們的基本核心產品有非常多用途：CO2、氧氣、我們的稀有氣體，以及我們所有產品，都會出現新的用途。我們談到 CO2 用於溫室氣體——當然，還有一個叫做大麻（cannabis）的小東西，這是一個正在成長的市場。乾冰用於生物製藥，乾冰用來運送帶回。乾冰存在很久了。所以我們持續在成長中的市場裡，找到好的用途與應用、新的用途與應用。若你看商業太空領域，我們在賣氫氣、賣氧氣。我們也在賣氮氣作為火箭推進劑，他們是這麼稱呼的。使用什麼取決於火箭、平台與公司。我們也賣用於——我姑且稱之為——衛星機動性的稀有氣體。

So a lot of new markets that are developing that consume our basic gases. And as far as -- I don't like to stray too far away from our, I'll call it, our core knitting. Our business model is pretty good. And we think we are pretty good at executing this business model. So history has shown us that you never want to lose sight of your strengths, and we won't do that. But certainly, any opportunity that's developing that we think lends itself to an industrial gas approach, model approach, we'll certainly pursue. We all like growth here. It certainly -- that's not a problem. So in terms of acquisitions, I think that we'll -- you'll be seeing a lot more. We'll be doing a lot in the packaged gas space. I think we'll do it in the healthcare space. I think those are natural. Decaps kind of come and go. You can look at the same decap for 5 years and nothing moves forward.

所以有很多正在發展的新市場會消耗我們的基本氣體。至於——我不太喜歡偏離我們所謂的核心本業太遠。我們的商業模式相當不錯，而我們也認為自己很擅長執行這個商業模式。歷史告訴我們，你永遠不該忽視自己的優勢，我們也不會這麼做。但當然，任何正在發展、而我們認為適合以工業氣體方式、模式來切入的機會，我們都會追求。我們都喜歡成長，這當然——不是問題。就併購而言，我認為我們——你會看到更多。我們會在瓶裝氣體（packaged gas）領域做很多。我認為我們也會在醫療保健領域做。我認為這些都很自然。Decaps 這類機會有來有去。你可以看同一個 decap 看 5 年，什麼都沒有往前走。

So that's more opportunistic in my mind. As far as blending hydrogen into natural gas, I mean that is the clear intention of this partnership that we formed with Snam in Italy, which is the largest natural gas operator in Europe. And they're very committed to blending hydrogen in with their natural gas. I have to go back and look, I think it's probably at the 10% level. But even that, if you did that across the entire world, that's a very significant amount. There are some limitations because you got to start changing out burner equipment on the other end.

所以在我看來，那更偏向機會型。至於把氫氣摻混進天然氣，我的意思是，這正是我們與義大利 Snam（歐洲最大的天然氣營運商）所成立合作夥伴關係的明確意圖。他們非常致力於把氫氣摻入天然氣。我得回去再確認一下，我想大概是在 10% 的水準。但即便如此，如果你在全世界都這麼做，那也是非常可觀的量。會有一些限制，因為你必須開始更換終端的燃燒器設備。

Compression. You might have to change out compression depending on how high of the mix you get of the hydrogen and certain kind of metallurgy, you have to take a closer look at as hydrogen grows. But it is something that I think is getting closer to fruition.

壓縮。視氫氣摻混比例有多高，你可能必須更換壓縮設備；另外，隨著氫氣比例提高，某些冶金材質也必須更仔細地檢視。但我認為這件事正逐漸接近實現。

And that does conclude our question-and-answer session for today's conference. I'd now like to turn the call back over to Juan Pelaez for any closing remark.

今天會議的問答環節到此結束。現在我想把電話交回給 Juan Pelaez，請他做任何結語。

Crystal, thank you, and thanks, everyone, for participating. Have a great rest of your day. And if you need anything else, feel free to reach out. Take care.

Crystal，謝謝你，也謝謝各位的參與。祝大家今天剩下的時間愉快。如果還需要任何協助，歡迎隨時聯絡。保重。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation, and you may now disconnect. Everyone, have a wonderful day.

各位女士先生，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位的參與，現在可以掛線。祝大家有美好的一天。