林德集團 (LIN) 2020 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Q3 2020 Linde Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Mr. Juan Pelaez. Sir, you may begin.

各位女士、先生，感謝您稍候，歡迎參加林德（Linde）2020 年第三季（Q3 2020）財報電話會議。（接線員指示）請注意，今天的會議將被錄音。（接線員指示）現在我想把會議交給今天的發言人 Juan Pelaez 先生。先生，您可以開始了。

Thanks, Chris. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for attending our 2020 third quarter earnings call and webcast. I am Juan Pelaez, Head of Investor Relations, and I'm joined this morning by Steve Angel, Chief Executive Officer; Matt White, Chief Financial Officer; and Sanjiv Lamba, Chief Operating Officer. Today's presentation materials are available on our website at linde.com in the Investors section.

謝謝你，Chris。各位早安，感謝各位參加我們 2020 年第三季財報電話會議與網路直播。我是投資人關係主管 Juan Pelaez，今天早上與我一同出席的有執行長 Steve Angel、財務長 Matt White，以及營運長 Sanjiv Lamba。今天的簡報資料可在我們網站 linde.com 的「投資人」專區取得。

Please read the forward-looking statement disclosure on Page 2 of the slides and note that it applies to all statements made during this teleconference. The reconciliations of the adjusted numbers are in the appendix of this presentation.

請閱讀投影片第 2 頁的前瞻性陳述揭露，並注意其適用於本次電話會議期間所作的所有陳述。調整後數字的調節表（reconciliations）收錄於本簡報的附錄中。

Steve and Matt will now give an update on Linde's third quarter performance, and we'll then be available to answer questions. Let me turn the call over to Steve.

接下來 Steve 與 Matt 將更新林德第三季的表現，之後我們將開放回答問題。現在把電話交給 Steve。

Thanks, Juan, and good morning, everyone. Another outstanding performance by the Linde team worldwide, and I'm thinking especially about all our employees who have been delivering products, servicing customers, filling cylinders, operating plants, building plants and taking care of patients, and they have been doing that uninterrupted from the beginning of this pandemic.

謝謝你，Juan，各位早安。林德全球團隊再次交出傑出表現；我特別想到我們所有員工，自疫情爆發以來，他們不間斷地交付產品、服務客戶、充裝鋼瓶、操作工廠、建造工廠並照護病患。

You can see we delivered very strong financial performance this quarter. We achieved record operating margins in all our gas segments, driven by good cost and price management and better volumes, which we were able to leverage down the income statement. Based on our fourth quarter guidance, we expect to deliver 12% earnings per share growth for the full year on top of 23% growth last year ex-FX. As expected, the more resilient markets we serve, health care, electronics and food freezing, continue to perform well. And our fixed fee contracts have protected us from volume reductions in the more cyclical end markets.

各位可以看到，我們本季交出非常強勁的財務表現。我們在所有氣體業務部門都達成創紀錄的營業利益率，主要受惠於良好的成本與價格管理以及更佳的銷量，並成功將其效益反映到損益表上。根據我們對第四季的指引，我們預期全年每股盈餘將成長 12%，是在去年（不含匯率影響）成長 23% 的基礎上再成長。如同預期，我們服務的較具韌性的市場——醫療保健、電子與食品冷凍——持續表現良好。而我們的固定費用合約也保護我們免受較具循環性的終端市場之銷量下滑影響。

Geographically, all segments showed volume improvement versus Q2 but still remain below pre-COVID levels. Going into Q4, I expect volumes in Asia, led by China, Taiwan and South Korea, to be positive both sequentially and year-over-year. However, we see growth flattening out in both the Americas and Europe sequentially as COVID cases continue to rise or remain at elevated levels. The impact is most pronounced in our metals and manufacturing market segments. This is consistent with published macroeconomic data and with what you're hearing from other companies.

就地理區域而言，所有部門相較第二季的銷量皆有所改善，但仍低於 COVID 之前的水準。展望第四季，我預期亞洲在中國、台灣與南韓帶動下，銷量將在季比與年比皆呈現正成長。然而，隨著 COVID 病例持續上升或維持在高檔，我們看到美洲與歐洲的成長在季比上趨於持平。影響在金屬與製造等市場區隔最為明顯。這與已公布的總體經濟數據一致，也與你們從其他公司聽到的情況相符。

I know there's a lot of interest regarding 2021. I think we will all acknowledge COVID is a bit of a wild card at this point. What I am confident in is the resiliency of our integrated supply business model, which we've been clearly demonstrating; our ability to achieve positive pricing in any environment; the strength of our backlog; and our ability to achieve cost efficiencies on an ongoing basis. Assuming stable volumes, I am confident that we will deliver another year of double-digit earnings growth in 2021. This is all I can share with you on 2021 today, but we will provide a more detailed outlook on our next earnings call.

我知道大家對 2021 年非常關注。我想我們都會承認，COVID 目前仍是一個不確定因素。我有信心的是：我們整合供應（integrated supply）的商業模式具備韌性，且我們已清楚展現；我們在任何環境下都能實現正向定價的能力；我們在手訂單（backlog）的強勁程度；以及我們持續達成成本效率的能力。在假設銷量穩定的情況下，我有信心 2021 年我們仍將交出雙位數的每股盈餘成長。今天我能分享的 2021 年資訊就到這裡；我們會在下一次財報電話會議提供更詳細的展望。

You can see in the appendix a chart that tracks our performance against the 35% greenhouse gas intensity reduction goal we announced in February. With a 19% reduction to date versus our 2018 baseline year, we are clearly well on our way towards achieving our goal.

各位可以在附錄中看到一張圖表，追蹤我們相對於 2 月宣布的「溫室氣體強度降低 35%」目標的進展。以 2018 年為基準年，截至目前我們已降低 19%，顯示我們正明確朝達成目標邁進。

With us on the call today is Sanjiv Lamba, who we recently announced as our new Chief Operating Officer. A little bit about Sanjiv. He has spent his entire career in industrial gases, beginning with BOC, then Linde AG, and upon our merger, Linde plc. It is fair to say he has survived and thrived in 3 different administrations and 2 major integrations. He is deeply knowledgeable of all 3 modes of industrial gas supply, on-site merchant and packaged gases, and has been a strong advocate for our strategy of building network density in core geographies.

今天與會的還有 Sanjiv Lamba，我們近期宣布他將出任新任營運長。簡單介紹一下 Sanjiv：他整個職涯都在工業氣體領域，從 BOC 開始，接著在 Linde AG，並在我們合併後加入 Linde plc。可以說，他在 3 個不同的管理團隊與 2 次重大整合中不僅挺過來，還表現出色。他對工業氣體供應的三種模式——現場供氣（on-site）、散裝/商用（merchant）與瓶裝氣體（packaged gases）——都非常熟悉，並一直大力支持我們在核心地理區域提升網路密度的策略。

Under his leadership, APAC has improved operating margins over 500 basis points over the last 2 years, driven by cost efficiencies, good price management, and the rollout of digitalization initiatives. The integration between legacy Praxair and Linde AG in Asia was completed ahead of schedule and generated substantial benefits for the company. Another indication of the success of the merger and Sanjiv's leadership is our employee survey results, which were quite positive across the entire Asia population.

在他的領導下，亞太區（APAC）過去兩年營業利益率提升超過 500 個基點，主要由成本效率、良好的價格管理以及數位化計畫的推動所帶動。亞洲地區原 Praxair 與 Linde AG 的整合提前完成，並為公司帶來可觀效益。合併成功與 Sanjiv 領導力的另一項佐證，是我們員工調查結果——在整個亞洲員工族群中都相當正面。

On the project side, 70% of our sale of gas backlog today is in Asia, and many of those projects were won as a result of Sanjiv's leadership. In terms of clean energy, Sanjiv has been a strong advocate. We have more project activity in Asia today than any other part of the world. And I expect Asia to be the region where we first see meaningful results.

在專案方面，目前我們氣體銷售在手訂單（sale of gas backlog）的 70% 位於亞洲，而其中許多專案是在 Sanjiv 的領導下贏得的。就潔淨能源而言，Sanjiv 一直是堅定的倡議者。我們目前在亞洲的專案活動比全球任何其他地區都更活躍。我也預期，亞洲將是我們最先看到具實質意義成果的地區。

Sanjiv has been a staunch supporter of all our corporate values: safety, integrity, diversity, community and sustainability. And I expect him to continue to work diligently to improve our performance in all of these areas. As you saw in the announcement, Sanjiv will be responsible for the Americas, APAC and EMEA regional operating segments as well as Linde Engineering, Lincare and global functions. And he will relocate to Danbury, Connecticut.

Sanjiv 一直堅定支持我們所有的企業價值：安全、誠信、多元、社區與永續。我也期待他持續努力，在這些面向全面提升我們的表現。如同公告所示，Sanjiv 將負責美洲、亞太與歐非中東非（EMEA）等區域營運部門，以及 Linde Engineering、Lincare 與全球職能部門。他也將搬遷至康乃狄克州丹伯里（Danbury）。

With that, I will turn it over to Sanjiv to say a few words.

接下來，我把時間交給 Sanjiv，請他說幾句話。

Thanks, Steve, and good morning, everyone. I wanted to be given this opportunity, and I really appreciate the vote of confidence from Steve and the entire Board of Directors.

謝謝你，Steve，各位早安。我很感謝能有這個機會，也非常感激 Steve 與全體董事會對我的信任。

As Steve said, with my 30-plus years in the industrial gas space, I can say with some pride that Linde today is an exceptional company, with a strong operating culture and a laser-sharp focus on sustainably creating value for our shareholders. I also believe Linde is uniquely positioned to leverage its technology to generate quality growth while making our customers more efficient, sustainable and indeed, our planet and our world more productive.

如 Steve 所說，我在工業氣體領域有超過 30 年的經驗；我也帶著些許自豪地說，今日的林德是一家卓越的公司，擁有強健的營運文化，並以極其聚焦的方式，持續為股東創造價值。我也相信，林德具備獨特優勢，能運用自身技術帶動高品質成長，同時讓客戶更有效率、更永續，並讓我們的地球與世界更具生產力。

I look forward to working closely with Steve, the leadership team, and indeed, our talented employees around the world to continue to drive growth and high-quality results for our shareholders. As I transition into the new role, I hope to get a chance to meet most of you, at least virtually, in the coming months.

我期待與 Steve、領導團隊，以及全球各地才華洋溢的員工密切合作，持續推動成長，並為股東創造高品質成果。在我轉任新職務的過程中，我希望在接下來幾個月能有機會與各位見面——至少以線上的方式。

I'll now turn it over to Matt to discuss our Q3 performance and outlook.

接下來我把時間交給 Matt，請他說明我們第三季表現與展望。

Thanks, Sanjiv, and good morning, everyone. Third quarter results can be found on Slide 3. Sales of $6.9 billion were 2% below prior year but 7% higher sequentially. Versus prior year, volumes are down 3% as lower base volumes, primarily in the manufacturing end market, more than offset positive contribution from project start-ups in APAC and Americas.

謝謝你，Sanjiv，各位早安。第三季結果請見投影片第 3 頁。銷售額 69 億美元，較去年同期低 2%，但較前一季高 7%。相較去年同期，銷量下滑 3%，主要是製造終端市場的基礎銷量較低，超過了亞太與美洲專案啟動所帶來的正向貢獻。

While it's difficult to know the exact impact from COVID, we estimate the Q3 effect to be a mid-single-digit percent decrease. Despite lower year-over-year volumes, we had a solid sequential improvement, with gas volumes increasing 6% from recovery in food and beverage, refining and chemicals and the more cyclical markets of metals and manufacturing.

雖然很難精確掌握 COVID 的實際影響，我們估計第三季影響約為中個位數百分比的下滑。儘管年比銷量較低，我們在季比上仍有穩健改善，氣體銷量較食品與飲料、煉油與化工的復甦，以及金屬與製造等較具循環性的市場回升，較前一季增加 6%。

At the consolidated level, engineering sales were flat with prior year but down 3% from the second quarter. This was primarily due to project timing, as the sale of equipment backlog has held relatively steady at $4.9 billion. Pricing trends continued to be positive, with increases of 2% over prior year and 1% over the second quarter. All geographic segments achieved higher pricing as local management took actions to recover cost inflation.

在合併層級，工程業務銷售額與去年同期持平，但較第二季下滑 3%。這主要是專案時點所致，因為設備銷售在手訂單（sale of equipment backlog）相對維持穩定，為 49 億美元。定價趨勢持續正向，較去年同期上升 2%，較第二季上升 1%。各地理區域皆實現更高的價格，因為當地管理團隊採取行動以回收成本通膨。

You'll notice that the year-over-year impact from FX was 0% due primarily to a stronger euro and Chinese RMB mostly offset by weaker Latin American currencies. Sequentially, FX was a 3% tailwind as the dollar depreciated across most foreign currencies.

各位會注意到，匯率（FX）對年比的影響為 0%，主要是歐元與人民幣走強，基本上抵銷了拉丁美洲貨幣走弱的影響。就季比而言，匯率帶來 3% 的順風，因美元相對多數外幣走貶。

Operating profit of $1.5 billion or 22.1% of sales rose 9% from 2019 and 15% sequentially. Versus prior year, operating profit grew from a combination of higher pricing, cost management and defensive revenues in the form of resilient end markets and fixed contract payments. In fact, operating margins expanded 230 basis points from 2019, our fifth quarter in a row of expanding margins more than 200 basis points. Sequentially, operating profit grew 15%, and margins increased 140 basis points from strong profit leverage on the higher volumes.

營業利益為15億美元（或銷售額的22.1%），較2019年成長9%，並較前一季成長15%。相較於前一年，營業利益的成長來自較高的定價、成本管理，以及以具韌性的終端市場與固定合約付款形式呈現的防禦性營收。事實上，營業利益率較2019年擴張230個基點，這是我們連續第五個季度擴張超過200個基點。就季比而言，營業利益成長15%，在較高銷量帶來的強勁獲利槓桿下，利潤率較前一季提升140個基點。

As demonstrated this quarter, our business has a unique combination of downside protection with fixed payments and resilient end markets, yet upside potential on economic recovery. Diluted EPS of $2.15 was 11% higher than prior year and 13% higher sequentially. Frankly, I don't expect you'll find many industrial or material companies that can claim year-over-year double-digit percent EPS growth in this environment, which speaks to the high-performance culture and quality of the Linde business model.

如本季所示，我們的業務具備獨特的組合：一方面透過固定付款與具韌性的終端市場提供下行保護，另一方面在經濟復甦時也具備上行潛力。稀釋後每股盈餘（EPS）為2.15美元，較前一年高11%，較前一季高13%。坦白說，在這樣的環境下，我不預期你能找到很多工業或材料公司能宣稱其EPS年增達到兩位數百分比，這也反映了林德（Linde）商業模式的高績效文化與品質。

Further validation of our performance can be found in the cash flow trends. Q3 operating cash flow of $1.9 billion increased from both prior year and second quarter, confirming a continued high conversion of earnings to cash flow and resulting in an operating cash flow to EBITDA ratio of 84%. Equally important is the disciplined capital deployment evidenced by prudent CapEx investments and a consistently rising return on capital, which reached a record 12.8% this quarter.

我們表現的進一步驗證可從現金流趨勢中看出。第三季營運現金流為19億美元，較前一年與第二季皆增加，確認獲利轉換為現金流的比率持續維持高水準，並使營運現金流對EBITDA比率達84%。同樣重要的是，從審慎的資本支出（CapEx）投資與持續上升的資本報酬率可見我們嚴謹的資本配置紀律；本季資本報酬率達到創紀錄的12.8%。

Base CapEx, which represents all non-backlog spending, has increased from smaller on-site growth projects, primarily serving the manufacturing end market, including paper and glass. However, project CapEx, which represents contractual growth with spend over $5 million, has declined, primarily due to start-ups.

基礎資本支出（Base CapEx，代表所有非積壓訂單的支出）因較小型的現場（on-site）成長專案而增加，主要服務製造業終端市場，包括紙業與玻璃。然而，專案資本支出（project CapEx，代表合約性成長且單筆支出超過500萬美元）則下降，主要是因為專案啟動（start-ups）。

While our ability to start up on time speaks to the quality of our customers and contracts, I do anticipate the overall backlog to decline into 2021, similar to the trends we saw in 2009 and 2015 following capital cycle corrections. But recall, following those corrections, customer project spending rebounded and subsequently led to significant project backlog growth, including a record year in 2011. So using history as a guide, I expect the capital cycle will eventually recover and provide future growth opportunities.

雖然我們能夠按時啟動專案，反映了客戶與合約的品質，但我確實預期整體積壓訂單將在2021年走低，類似我們在2009年與2015年於資本循環修正後所見的趨勢。但請記得，在那些修正之後，客戶專案支出曾反彈，並隨後帶動專案積壓訂單顯著成長，包括2011年的創紀錄年度。因此，以歷史作為指引，我預期資本循環最終將復甦，並提供未來的成長機會。

Return on capital is the ultimate metric for this industry, and we have consistently demonstrated a prudent balance of growth and quality. Poor contract management and misallocation of CapEx can lead to significant cash losses, potentially even greater than the initial investment. This explains why Linde is laser-focused on a consistent proven investment process to stay within our core expertise and dense integrated supply network while properly balancing diversification, risk and return.

資本報酬率是本產業的終極衡量指標，而我們一貫展現出成長與品質之間審慎的平衡。合約管理不善與資本支出配置錯誤可能導致重大現金損失，甚至可能大於初始投資。這也解釋了為何林德高度聚焦於一套一致且經驗證的投資流程，以維持在我們的核心專長與高密度整合供應網路之內，同時妥善平衡多元化、風險與報酬。

Now while we had a solid third quarter performance, I believe it's just as important to discuss our longer-range trends, which you can find on Slide 4. From a financial perspective, our owners want a company that will deliver high-quality growth while prudently managing capital and generating excess cash to fund growth and shareholder distributions. And when looking at our results since the merger in Q4 of 2018, that's exactly what you'll find.

現在，雖然我們第三季表現穩健，但我認為同樣重要的是討論我們較長期的趨勢，你可以在投影片4看到。從財務角度來看，我們的股東希望公司能在審慎管理資本的同時，提供高品質成長，並產生超額現金以支應成長與股東回饋。而檢視我們自2018年第四季合併以來的成果，你會看到我們正是如此。

The top half of this slide demonstrates high-quality growth. In just under 2 years, we expanded EBIT margins 600 basis points and grew quarterly EPS by 42%. Most companies would be pleased with this performance by itself, yet we accomplished it with a commitment to capital discipline. 2020 year-to-date operating cash flow is up 27%, and free cash flow has more than doubled. This enabled funding of growth and shareholder distributions, including a 10% dividend increase and over $2 billion of share repurchases. Furthermore, return on capital has increased 250 basis points from the merger date.

這張投影片的上半部展示了高品質成長。在不到兩年的時間裡，我們將EBIT利潤率擴張600個基點，並使季度EPS成長42%。多數公司僅憑這樣的表現就會感到滿意，但我們是在承諾資本紀律的前提下達成。2020年迄今的營運現金流成長27%，自由現金流更是增加逾一倍。這使我們得以同時支應成長與股東回饋，包括股利提高10%以及超過20億美元的庫藏股回購。此外，自合併日起，資本報酬率已提升250個基點。

It's also important to note that financial performance wasn't our only focus. We are living our core values through improved safety performance, employee diversity and carbon reduction, which are all detailed in our 2020 sustainability report that was issued in July. Many people tend to forget that we achieved these results while integrating 2 complex, multinational companies during a global pandemic. In fact, while some stated we would not be successful, I continue to look forward to what we will accomplish next.

同樣重要的是要指出，財務表現並非我們唯一的重點。我們透過改善安全績效、提升員工多元性與降低碳排放來實踐核心價值；這些內容都已詳列於我們7月發布的2020年永續報告中。許多人往往忘了，我們是在全球疫情期間整合兩家複雜的跨國公司，同時達成這些成果。事實上，儘管有人曾表示我們不會成功，我仍持續期待我們接下來將完成的成就。

I'll now wrap things up with our updated 2020 guidance which you can find on Slide 5. For the fourth quarter, we're estimating EPS in the range of $2.11 to $2.16. Excluding the 1% FX headwind assumption, this range represents 13% to 15% growth over 2019. We're anticipating flat volumes sequentially as incremental project contribution is expected to be mostly offset by seasonally lower sales and engineering project timing. We believe this range is appropriate in light of the continued uncertainty around the pandemic and subsequent economic impact. Full year guidance is now $8.05 to $8.10, which includes an estimated 2% FX headwind. This updated range falls within our February 2020 pre-COVID estimate of $8 to $8.25.

接下來我將以更新後的2020年財測作結，你可以在投影片5看到。第四季方面，我們預估EPS介於2.11至2.16美元。若排除1%的外匯（FX）逆風假設，該區間相當於較2019年成長13%至15%。我們預期銷量較前一季持平，因新增專案貢獻預計大多會被季節性較低的銷售與工程專案時點所抵銷。鑑於疫情及其後續經濟影響仍存在不確定性，我們認為此區間是適當的。全年財測現為8.05至8.10美元，其中包含預估2%的外匯逆風。此更新後區間仍落在我們2020年2月COVID前預估的8至8.25美元範圍內。

So in summary, irrespective of the global challenges, we are expecting to grow full year EPS 12% ex currency and, thus, deliver on our original 2020 financial commitment.

因此總結而言，不論全球挑戰如何，我們預期全年EPS在不含匯率影響下將成長12%，並因此兌現我們原先對2020年的財務承諾。

I'd now like to turn the call over to Q&A.

接下來我想把電話會議交給問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Duffy Fischer of Barclays.

（接線員指示）我們的第一個問題來自巴克萊（Barclays）的Duffy Fischer。

First question. If we could just go to the slide that Matt was just on, Slide 4, the chart in the upper left-hand corner just showing the profit margin expansion. Could you talk about the size of the buckets that contributed to that? How much was price? How much was integration? How much was just cost-cutting at the respective companies?

第一個問題。如果我們可以回到Matt剛才那張投影片，也就是投影片4，左上角的圖表顯示利潤率擴張。你能談談對此有貢獻的各項因素的比重嗎？有多少來自價格？有多少來自整合？又有多少只是各公司各自的成本削減？

And then is there anything in that improvement that would be transitory that might become a headwind? And there, I would think of something like maybe in Lincare you might be over-earning because COVID is a respiratory disease. Maybe that's got better business this year than it might a year or so from now. So anything in there that we would need to overcome to keep that as either a base or a base to grow from?

另外，這些改善之中是否有任何可能是暫時性的、之後可能轉為逆風？我想到的例子是，或許在Lincare，你們可能因為COVID是呼吸道疾病而出現超額獲利。今年的業務可能比未來一年左右更好。所以其中是否有任何我們需要克服的因素，才能把它維持為基礎，或作為進一步成長的基礎？

Well, the way I would answer that, Duffy, is in any given year, you're going to have some headwinds, you're going to have maybe some tailwinds, and then the rest of it, you just got to go execute. And I think the point is, year in, year out, quarter in, quarter out, every month, the team executes at a high level. Pricing is always an element of this. And if you go back over this time frame, I'm sure it probably was about 2%. We always get pricing in this business. We'll get it going forward as well. So I think that is a factor.

Duffy，我會這樣回答：在任何一年，你都會遇到一些逆風，也可能有一些順風，其餘的就得靠執行。我認為重點在於，年復一年、季復一季、每個月，團隊都以高水準執行。定價一直是其中一個要素。如果你回頭看這段期間，我相信大概約2%。我們在這個業務中一向能取得價格提升，未來也會如此，所以我認為這是一個因素。

Certainly good cost management through this last quarters, several quarters, which is very important as a result of COVID. And then as you spoke about earlier, we did have some merger synergies, which, quite frankly, I don't look at anymore because that's kind of in the rear-view mirror to us because right now, we're just working on cost efficiencies in every business. And so that will sustain us going forward.

當然，過去幾季、好幾季以來我們都有良好的成本管理，這在COVID之下非常重要。然後如你先前提到的，我們確實有一些併購協同效益；坦白說，我現在已不太去看它，因為對我們而言那已經是過去式了，因為目前我們只是在各個業務中推動成本效率。因此，這將在未來持續支撐我們。

And what I'm confident in, our ability to continue to drive operating margins northwards is kind of what I said, continued price improvement, continued good cost management, productivity programs, which we've been ramping up here. And whatever volume comes our way, I think you've seen from Q2 to Q3, we were able to take that volume and translate it into ever higher levels of margin all the way down the income statement.

我有信心我們能持續推動營業利益率向上，原因如我所說：持續的價格改善、持續良好的成本管理、我們正在加速推進的生產力計畫。無論市場帶來多少銷量，我想你已從第二季到第三季看到，我們能把這些銷量轉化為損益表各層面更高的利潤率水準。

And of course, we have some large project contributions to look forward to, and that will be -- we have a fairly healthy backlog today. So that will sustain us for a while. So we'll continue to -- continue that trend that you're referring to on the upper left-hand side.

當然，我們也有一些大型專案貢獻值得期待，而且——我們目前的積壓訂單相當健康，因此可支撐我們一段時間。我們將持續——延續你在左上角所提到的那個趨勢。

Perfect. And then if you could maybe just look at merchant and packaged and kind of walk through the 3 big geographies and what you were seeing volume-wise there and how that looks today?

很好。接著，如果你能也許看一下商用（merchant）與包裝（packaged）業務，並大致帶我們走過三大主要地理區域，談談你們在那邊看到的量（volume）表現，以及目前看起來如何？

Well, I think packaged is more impacted by manufacturing. So manufacturing globally has been suffering, more so than other market segments. So if I look kind of inside of that number, and if you looked at in the United States, for example, you would see that hardgoods is weaker than gas. So you probably have -- still have negative double-digit year-over-year hardgoods volumes. But on the gas side, it'd be much better, say, low negative single digits. So you kind of have those trends.

嗯，我認為包裝（packaged）業務受製造業影響更大。所以全球製造業一直在受挫，而且比其他市場區隔更明顯。若我把那個數字再往內拆解，例如看美國，你會看到硬貨（hardgoods）比氣體（gas）更疲弱。所以硬貨的年對年量可能仍是負的雙位數。但在氣體那邊會好很多，例如負的個位數低段。大致就是這些趨勢。

On the merchant side, it can be affected by resilient markets and often is. So if you were to look at the U.S. and Europe, health care, food freezing are large markets for us, and those markets have held up very well, as Matt spoke about and as you can see in that end market chart in the back.

在商用（merchant）方面，它可能、而且經常會受到具韌性的市場所支撐。所以如果你看美國與歐洲，醫療保健、食品冷凍是我們的大型市場，而這些市場表現維持得非常好，正如 Matt 提到的，也如你在後面那張終端市場圖表中所看到的。

And then if you were to look into -- look at Asia, you would see that electronics markets, and we do provide merchant liquid electronics markets, too, it's not all over the fence, holds up quite well. So merchant, generally speaking, would be better because of the resilient end market exposure. Packaged gas, a little weaker because of manufacturing. In both cases, the fixed fee structures have held up exceptionally well.

然後如果你看亞洲，你會看到電子市場——而且我們也供應商用液體（merchant liquid）的電子市場，不是只有現場供氣（over-the-fence）——表現也相當不錯。總體而言，商用（merchant）會更好，因為曝險於具韌性的終端市場。包裝氣體（packaged gas）則因製造業而稍弱。兩者的固定費用結構（fixed fee structures）在這段期間都維持得特別好。

Our next question comes from Bob Koort of Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛（Goldman Sachs）的 Bob Koort。

Steve or Matt, I wanted to ask you guys about hydrogen a little bit here. Obviously, it's been a lot of fanfare about this market. But wondering how it fits in, Matt, with your description of investing with high returns on capital and exploiting your core dense network?

Steve 或 Matt，我想請教你們一些關於氫能的問題。顯然這個市場一直有很多宣傳與熱度。但我想知道，Matt，這如何符合你所描述的：以高資本報酬率投資，並利用你們核心的高密度網路？

(inaudible) can lend itself with? Or are you going to do more rifle shots? Just how you think about that market opportunity.

（聽不清）這是否能與之相契合？還是你們會採取更多「精準點射」（rifle shots）？你們如何看待這個市場機會？

I would say rifle shots, very focused shots based on end market presence, end market, infrastructure. Customers we know, customers often, in most cases, are already supplying. And so to me, these look very much like the normal fare industrial gas over-the-fence projects. And the only difference is clean hydrogen is the product. That's the only difference.

我會說是「精準點射」，非常聚焦的出手，依據終端市場的存在、終端市場、基礎設施，以及我們熟悉的客戶——而且多數情況下，這些客戶本來就已在供應。因此在我看來，這些非常像一般的工業氣體現場供氣（over-the-fence）專案。唯一的差別是產品變成了潔淨氫（clean hydrogen）。就只有這個差別。

Yes. And just to add to that, Bob, as you can imagine, it's an asset-intensive growth area. And that's -- we view as our strength is to manage these assets and get good returns relative to the risk on that. So we don't see that very different at all on how the rest of the industrial gas business runs and is operated.

是的。再補充一下，Bob，如你所想，這是一個資產密集的成長領域。而我們認為我們的強項就在於管理這些資產，並在相對於風險的前提下取得良好報酬。所以我們不覺得這在運作方式上與其他工業氣體業務有任何本質差異。

That's helpful. And Steve, I know last time you guys named a COO, he only was there for about a year, and then there was a succession. Should we read into this that you're planning on heading out at some point in the not-so-distant future? Or can we rely on you sticking at the helm for a while longer?

這很有幫助。Steve，我知道上一次你們任命 COO，他大概只待了一年左右，之後就發生接班安排。我們是否應該解讀為你打算在不久的將來離開？還是我們可以期待你會再掌舵一段時間？

One day, I will head out, but there's nothing decided or planned. But you can rest assure one day, I will not be here.

總有一天我會離開，但目前沒有任何決定或計畫。不過你可以放心，總有一天我不會在這裡。

Up next, we have Peter Clark of Societe Generale.

接下來是法國興業銀行（Societe Generale）的 Peter Clark。

Welcome, Sanjiv. I've got a quick query on terms of the guidance. Obviously, you're at the top end of where you were guiding back in February. And since then, we had the pandemic develop across the world. Obviously, you took a bigger volume hit. Clearly, productivity has been a key thing.

歡迎你，Sanjiv。我有一個關於財測（guidance）的快速問題。顯然你們目前在 2 月所給指引區間的上緣。自那之後，疫情在全球擴散。很明顯你們的量（volume）受到更大衝擊，而生產力（productivity）顯然是關鍵。

But for you, Steve, would you say the way that Linde plc has adjusted to this would have been the same as Praxair, i.e. the organization has pretty much adjusted to the way you would like to see it?

但對你來說，Steve，你會說 Linde plc 對此的調整方式會和 Praxair 一樣嗎？也就是說，組織基本上已經調整到你希望看到的樣子？

And then the follow-up to that is actually for Sanjiv because I think way back in Q2 '19, we were told Asia was off the mark very quickly in terms of adjusting and productivity benefits. Just wondering how you see the difference at Linde plc, the main differences anyway, as against Linde AG and perhaps even BOC.

接著追問其實是給 Sanjiv 的，因為我記得早在 2019 年第二季，我們就被告知亞洲在調整與取得生產力效益方面動作非常快。想請問你如何看待在 Linde plc 的差異——至少主要差異——相較於 Linde AG，甚至可能是 BOC。

So I'll take the first part of the question, then I'll turn that one over to Sanjiv. Quite frankly, across the board, Linde plc, people did what they needed to do to address the challenges of COVID, whether that was jumping through hoops to take care of patients. There's a recent article about what our drivers and our team did in India to provide oxygen to all those hospitals in need. So that's what people did really across the board. There's hundreds of stories just like that.

我先回答問題的第一部分，然後把另一部分交給 Sanjiv。坦白說，在整個 Linde plc，大家都做了他們必須做的事來應對 COVID 的挑戰，不論是想方設法照護病患。最近有一篇文章談到我們在印度的司機與團隊如何為所有需要的醫院提供氧氣。這就是大家在各地所做的事。像這樣的故事有成百上千個。

But from a cost management standpoint, I would say everybody stepped up to the challenge, and there really is no differentiation in terms of legacy organizations.

但從成本管理的角度來看，我會說每個人都挺身而出迎接挑戰，而且在傳承組織（legacy organizations）之間，確實沒有任何差異。

Thanks, Peter. My observation on the productivity piece would really go something like this. In Linde plc, the main difference I see is we find productivity as a fundamental part of our business process. It's entirely embedded. It's not a program as we might have run in Linde AG or Linde AG or an initiative that's separate from the business.

謝謝你，Peter。我對生產力這一塊的觀察大概是這樣：在 Linde plc，我看到的主要差異是，我們把生產力視為商業流程的基本部分。它是完全內嵌的。它不是一個計畫——不像我們在 Linde AG 可能會推行的那種——也不是一個獨立於業務之外的倡議。

It doesn't sit on top. It sits within the business. It's something we do every day. There are thousands of projects that we have that build and deliver on these productivity efforts and the overall benefits that we see in there. And I think that's kind of the fundamental difference between what I've seen in the past and what we are now going through in Linde plc.

它不是疊加在上面，而是存在於業務之中。這是我們每天都在做的事。我們有成千上萬個專案在建立並交付這些生產力努力，以及我們在其中看到的整體效益。我想這就是我過去所見與我們現在在 Linde plc 所經歷之間的根本差異。

(Operator Instructions) Next, we have Nicola Tang, Exane BNP.

（接線員指示）下一位是 Exane BNP 的 Nicola Tang。

Congrats, Sanjiv, on the promotion. Firstly, I wanted to ask about the backlog. Matt, in your remarks, you were commenting on a decline in the backlog into 2021. I was wondering if you could talk about the existing backlog as well. Do you see any delays in your existing backlog at the moment?

恭喜你升任，Sanjiv。首先我想問關於在手訂單（backlog）。Matt，你在發言中提到 2021 年在手訂單會下降。我想請你也談談現有的在手訂單。你目前是否看到現有在手訂單有任何延遲？

When I look at your revised CapEx guidance, I see you've taken it down very slightly. Is that related at all to project delays or cancellations? Or is that lower nonproject spend?

另外我看你們修正後的資本支出（CapEx）指引，只是非常小幅地下調。這是否與專案延遲或取消有關？還是只是非專案支出較低？

And then I had a second question on the buyback. Should I pause there?

然後我還有第二個關於庫藏股回購（buyback）的问题。我需要先停在這裡嗎？

Well, you can keep going, and I'll take the first one, and I'll let Matt handle the second one, most likely. I haven't heard your question yet, but most likely.

你可以繼續，我先回答第一個，然後我大概會讓 Matt 來回答第二個。我還沒聽到你的問題，但很可能會是他。

Okay. Well, the second question was, the original commitment around the buyback, I think, was $6 billion by February 2021. And obviously, you paused it in Q2, but you restarted it in Q3. It seems to be at a bit of a lower pace than in previous months. And if my calculation is correct, I think you have about $1.7 billion of the buyback remaining.

好的。第二個問題是，原先對回購的承諾，我記得是到 2021 年 2 月前完成 60 億美元。你們在第二季暫停，但第三季又重啟。看起來目前的速度比之前幾個月稍慢。如果我算得沒錯，我想你們大概還剩下約 17 億美元的回購額度。

So I was wondering if you're still committed to completing this within the original time frame of February 2021, or whether you're trying to be a bit more tactical about the pace perhaps related to the equity market or perhaps related to market conditions for decaps or projects?

所以我想問，你們是否仍承諾在原先的 2021 年 2 月這個時間框架內完成？還是你們會在節奏上更具策略性（tactical），可能與股市狀況有關，或與市場環境、去碳化（decaps）或專案相關？

Okay. So this is Steve. I'll take the first part. On the backlog. So the backlog number we publish is a function of projects that we have signed that come into the backlog and projects that have started up, which comes out of the backlog. And so you got to kind of divorce that from an annualized CapEx spend rate. But what Matt was saying is we can look at projects we're starting up next year, and that's a good thing, right? That's why we've closed those projects, so we get it started up, so we can start seeing the revenue and the returns.

好的。我是 Steve。我先回答第一部分：關於在手訂單（backlog）。我們公布的在手訂單數字，是由已簽約、因此納入在手訂單的專案，以及已啟動投產（started up）、因此自在手訂單中移出的專案所構成。所以你必須把它與年度化的資本支出（CapEx）支出率分開來看。但 Matt 的意思是，我們可以看明年要啟動投產的專案，而那是好事，對吧？這也是我們之所以簽下那些專案的原因：讓它啟動投產，然後我們就能開始看到營收與報酬。

But based on the amount that we're going to be starting up and based on our best estimate in terms of when we will replenish or we will add projects to the backlog, it is likely that number could come down. Now it could also bounce around some because, again, this is lumpy. So that's really what he is referring to.

但基於我們明年將要啟動投產的量，以及依我們對何時能補充、或把新專案加入在手訂單的最佳估計，那個數字很可能會下降。不過它也可能會有些上下波動，因為這本來就不平滑、會有大起大落。所以他指的就是這件事。

And if we think just really in terms of where we think projects are going to come from or where they are coming from, electronics is quite strong and for reasons that you're all very much aware of. So if anything, electronics opportunity pipeline is becoming stronger over time. Clearly, clean energy, we're looking at quite a few projects. It's a question of timing.

而如果我們真的只從我們認為專案將從何而來、或目前正從何而來的角度來看，電子產業相當強勁，原因你們都非常清楚。因此若有什麼變化的話，電子相關的機會管線正隨時間變得更強。顯然地，潔淨能源方面，我們正在看相當多的專案，問題在於時點。

And then I would say the rest of the project opportunity slate is really more of a function of demand. There are projects that we know customers would like to do, but right now, their balance sheets, their businesses are fairly weak. And they're going to wait until demand comes back. But this kind of goes back to Matt's earlier point that when demand comes back, all kinds of projects tend to flow back into the pipeline system.

接著我會說，其餘的專案機會清單其實更取決於需求。有些專案我們知道客戶想做，但目前他們的資產負債表與營運狀況相當疲弱，他們會等到需求回來才會動。但這也呼應 Matt 先前的觀點：當需求回來時，各式各樣的專案往往會重新流回到管線系統中。

With respect to delays, I don't expect to see much in the way of further delays other than what we've seen, which was very mild compared to what you've heard others talk about. We are pretty confident about the status of all -- certainly, all the big projects that we have in the pipeline today. I don't anticipate any further delays. And we feel very good about when we will start seeing the commercial benefits of -- from those investments.

就延遲而言，除了我們已經看到的情況之外，我不預期會出現太多進一步的延遲；而我們所看到的延遲，與你們聽到其他人談到的相比其實非常輕微。我們對所有——至少對目前管線中的所有大型專案——的狀態都相當有信心。我不預期會有任何進一步延遲。而且我們對於何時會開始看到這些投資帶來的商業效益感到非常樂觀。

And with respect to a little lower CapEx spend, I mean, I would say, certainly, all the good project opportunities we are pursuing, this would be nongrowth spend that we have just been continuing to manage closely -- more closely every day. We're finding savings here and there, and -- which is what we always expected would happen as we really focus more so on the nongrowth CapEx spend.

至於資本支出（CapEx）花費稍微偏低，我的意思是，我會說，當然，我們正在追求的所有優質專案機會都在進行中；這部分會是非成長性支出，我們只是持續更——每天更緊密地——管理。我們在這裡那裡找到一些節省，這——也正是我們一向預期會發生的，因為我們確實更聚焦在非成長性 CapEx 支出上。

But inside of that number, that base CapEx number, the growth with respect to pulp and paper projects, with respect to glass, with respect to lithium-ion battery projects, small on-site projects really is quite strong. And so that has been a very favorable trend throughout COVID.

但在那個數字、也就是基礎 CapEx 數字之內，與紙漿與造紙專案、玻璃、鋰離子電池專案相關的成長，以及小型現場（on-site）專案其實相當強勁。因此這在整個 COVID 期間一直是非常有利的趨勢。

Thanks, Stephen. And I'll just add one point to Steve before I go to the buyback question. I think just to clarify, too. Our definition of backlog, it's not -- the definitions are not consistent in this industry. So I just want to make sure you understand that. In my opinion, we have the most stringent definition on how we define backlog. It must be growth. It must be contractually secured over $5 million. It means we don't put MOUs. We don't put LOIs. We don't put merchant-only type projects.

謝謝你，Stephen。在我轉到庫藏股回購問題之前，我先對 Steve 補充一點。我想也再澄清一下。我們對「在手訂單」（backlog）的定義——這個產業的定義並不一致。所以我想確保你理解這點。以我看來，我們對 backlog 的定義是最嚴格的。它必須是成長。它必須是合約上已確定且金額超過 500 萬美元。也就是說，我們不把 MOU（合作備忘錄）算進去，不把 LOI（意向書）算進去，也不把那種僅屬於商業/現貨（merchant-only）型態的專案算進去。

So to Steve's point, even within our base CapEx spending, a little less than half of that is for growth and for very good growth. For on-sites below $5 million, some of these small on-sites, we're putting in places like glass and some other strong growing markets like paper. We also are seeing a lot of good growth opportunities in there that may not meet our backlog definition but see good returns relative to the risk and things we're pursuing. So I just want to make sure when you think about the capital we're spending on growth, there are 2 elements. There's what fits our fairly stringent backlog definition, but then there is a substantial portion of growth that we also have that we're pursuing in the base CapEx.

因此呼應 Steve 的觀點，即使在我們的基礎 CapEx 支出中，也有不到一半是用於成長，而且是非常好的成長。對於低於 500 萬美元的現場（on-site）專案，其中一些小型 on-site，我們會投在像玻璃以及其他成長強勁的市場，例如紙業。我們也看到很多不錯的成長機會，可能不符合我們的 backlog 定義，但相對於風險能帶來良好報酬，而這些也是我們正在追求的。所以我想確保你在思考我們用於成長的資本支出時，理解有兩個元素：一個是符合我們相當嚴格 backlog 定義的部分；但另外也有相當大一部分的成長，是我們在基礎 CapEx 中同樣在追求的。

Regarding the share buybacks. Yes, just a couple of points to make. First, the expiration, I wouldn't look too deep into that into February. That's more of a technicality that's required under the European MAR requirements. In reality, I think a better way to think about how we look at buybacks is that they're an integral part of our capital allocation policy.

關於股票回購。是的，我想提幾點。第一，關於到期日，我不會對 2 月那個時間點過度解讀。那更多是因應歐洲 MAR 規範要求的一種技術性安排。實際上，我認為更好的理解方式是：我們看待回購，是把它視為我們資本配置政策中不可或缺的一部分。

As you probably well know, we always look to maintain our A rating and grow the dividend every year. And then after that, our priority is to grow. And it's to invest in growth, could be acquisitions. It could be decaps. It could be projects. But we always tend to have a lot of excess capital left over. And then with that excess capital, that goes to buybacks. So our expectation is to continue to have open buyback programs.

如你們可能很清楚的，我們一向以維持 A 級評等並且每年提高股利為目標。之後，我們的優先順序是成長，也就是投資於成長，可能是併購、可能是 decaps、也可能是專案。但我們通常仍會留下大量多餘資本。接著，這些多餘資本就會用於回購。因此我們的預期是會持續維持開放的回購計畫。

As far as why we're probably a little bit less on track than the $6 billion, obviously, as you know, with COVID, we turned it off for about a quarter just in light of the items we discussed at that time in Q2. But this is something that we've been in the market now every day since August, since we started back up. And our approach is to be in the market every day, and then when we see opportunities, we'll go heavier at times. But this is something that will be an integral part of our capital allocation policy.

至於為什麼我們可能比 60 億美元的目標稍微落後，顯然地，如你所知，因為 COVID，我們曾在第二季討論的那些事項背景下，暫停了大約一季。但自從 8 月我們重新啟動以來，我們現在每天都在市場上。我們的做法是每天都在市場上，然後當我們看到機會時，有時會加大力度。但這將會是我們資本配置政策中不可或缺的一部分。

Our next question is from David Begleiter.

我們下一個問題來自 David Begleiter。

Steve, there were some concerns that weakness in refining might impact your Americas results and margins. That didn't appear to be the case. So can you talk about what happened with your refined business in Q3 and what drove the strong margin expansion in Americas in Q3 as well?

Steve，有一些擔憂認為煉油業的疲弱可能會影響你們美洲區的業績與利潤率。但看起來並非如此。你能談談你們第三季在煉油相關業務發生了什麼，以及是什麼驅動了美洲區第三季利潤率的強勁擴張嗎？

Okay. Yes. So the first part of your question is there was a concern that refining may have hurt our margins. Is that what you said? Because that was kind of...

好的。是的。所以你問題的第一部分是，有人擔心煉油可能傷害了我們的利潤率。你是這麼說的嗎？因為那有點……

In the Americas, yes.

在美洲區，是的。

Okay. So Americas is a lot of -- it's a big region. So there's a lot of elements to it. But let me just say, I think, obviously, 28% operating margin is not bad. So how did we get there? And -- good pricing, good cost management, team reacted very quickly. We finished out some of the integration opportunities we had earlier. So we certainly saw some of the benefits of that.

好的。美洲區涵蓋很多——它是一個很大的區域，所以裡面有很多要素。但我先說，我想，顯然 28% 的營業利潤率不算差。所以我們是怎麼做到的？——良好的定價、良好的成本管理，團隊反應非常迅速。我們完成了一些先前的整合機會。因此我們確實看到了其中一些效益。

The Americas has always been very strong on productivity programs. And the fixed fee structures, take or pays, all of that held up very well throughout this period. So that's really what -- and the resilient end markets, obviously, we benefit from that, health care, food freezing, predominantly in the Americas, as I talked about earlier. And we did very -- we're doing very well in those markets.

美洲區在生產力計畫方面一向非常強。而固定費用結構、take-or-pay（照付不議）等，在這段期間都維持得非常好。所以這就是——再加上具韌性的終端市場，顯然我們也因此受益；像是醫療保健、食品冷凍，主要都在美洲區，正如我先前提到的。我們在那些市場表現非常——我們在那些市場做得非常好。

With respect to refining, as I looked, the volumes certainly are down Q3 year-over-year. They were up sequentially from Q2. There's some noise in that because of a series of hurricanes that certainly affected Lake Charles. The first hurricane affected Motiva. So there needed to be -- they had to recover from that, and they've been recovering from that. So October obviously looks a little better, say, than September for that reason. But we were -- even though it's down year-over-year, again, we have very good commercial terms and conditions on all of those contracts down there that protect us.

就煉油而言，我看了一下，第三季的量確實較去年同期下降；但相較第二季則是季增。這裡面有一些雜訊，因為一連串颶風確實影響了 Lake Charles。第一個颶風影響了 Motiva，所以他們需要——必須從中恢復，而他們也一直在恢復。因此基於這個原因，10 月顯然看起來會比 9 月好一些。但我們——即使年減，重申一次，我們在那邊所有合約都有非常好的商業條款與條件來保護我們。

And so again, as I said earlier, there's always tailwinds and headwinds and things we just have to go execute. So I've never seen a quarter yet where there's nothing but tailwinds. So that was just one headwind during the quarter we had to deal with. The team did a very good job. But we're pretty much out of that now. I don't anticipate another hurricane between now and the rest of the year. So I think they'll be fine.

所以同樣地，如我先前所說，總是會有順風、逆風，以及我們必須去執行的事情。我還沒看過哪一季只有順風、沒有逆風。所以那只是我們本季必須處理的一個逆風。團隊做得非常好。但我們現在幾乎已經走出那段影響。我不預期從現在到年底還會有另一個颶風，所以我想他們會沒問題。

The biggest issue in refining, as you know, is that the diesel fuel side has been strong. The gas side has been very weak, though has been coming back. And jet fuel where refineries typically make good margins has been terrible. But refinery utilization is coming up from where it was, but low 80s is not a good place for them. They need to be much higher than that to start making money. But we're in pretty good shape.

你也知道，煉油最大的問題是柴油端一直很強；汽油端非常疲弱，不過正在回升。而噴射燃料——煉油廠通常在這塊能賺到不錯利潤——表現非常糟。但煉油廠的開工率正從先前水準回升，不過 80% 出頭對他們來說不是好位置；他們需要遠高於那個水準才開始賺錢。但我們的狀況相當不錯。

And Steve, lastly, just on the European shutdowns, have you seen any impacts yet? Any way to quantify the impacts in Q4 for you guys?

Steve，最後一個問題，關於歐洲的封鎖措施，你們目前有看到任何影響嗎？有沒有辦法量化你們第四季的影響？

Well, I think the answer to that is, we have to watch it, I think, pretty closely because a lot of these shutdowns really started going into effect. Clearly, I can look at volumes and see that medical oxygen is quite strong. But it was -- it's been strong. And so it continued to be strong in October. And that typically is -- it's a function of COVID case rates. If COVID case rates go up, I expect to see our oxygen sales go up. So that's been strong.

嗯，我想答案是，我們必須非常密切地觀察，因為很多這些封鎖措施其實是最近才開始生效。顯然，我可以看量並看到醫療用氧氣相當強勁。但它——一直都很強。因此 10 月也持續強勁。而那通常——是 COVID 病例率的函數。如果 COVID 病例率上升，我預期我們的氧氣銷售會上升。所以這一直很強。

I believe there probably was some build ahead knowing that these shutdowns were coming. So we probably got a little better volumes than we would ordinarily get as people were preparing in advance for the shutdowns. But this is why we are saying flat sales in Q4 because I think we're going to see the effects of this for the rest of the quarter. We're confident that it will be around flat. But certainly, the shutdowns in Europe are going to be a drag to volumes than we anticipated they would be, though the medical side will -- I'm sure will continue to be strong throughout.

我認為在知道這些停工即將到來的情況下，可能提前有一些備貨/拉貨。因此，當人們為停工預作準備時，我們的出貨量可能比平常略好一些。但這也是為什麼我們說第四季銷售將持平，因為我認為我們在本季剩餘時間都會看到其影響。我們有信心大致會持平。不過，歐洲的停工對出貨量的拖累將會比我們原先預期更大，儘管醫療端——我相信——仍會持續強勁。

Our next question comes from John McNulty of BMO Capital Markets.

下一個問題來自 BMO Capital Markets 的 John McNulty。

So maybe a question around how to think about the backlog and potential for activity. I think, look, every recession is a little bit different. And this one, obviously, was deeper than the '09 recession but seems to have snapped back maybe a little bit more quickly.

我想問一下如何看待在手訂單（backlog）以及潛在的活動量。我認為，每一次衰退都有些不同。而這一次顯然比 2009 年那次衰退更深，但看起來反彈可能也更快一些。

I guess how are you thinking about the progression of how your backlog -- or when your backlog may actually start to improve, just given kind of the differences in recession? Is there a way to think about that at this point?

我想問的是，考量這次衰退的差異，你們如何看待在手訂單的演進——或者在手訂單何時可能開始改善？在這個時間點，有沒有一種思考方式？

I would -- it's hard for me to forecast that. I think electronics projects are going to be there. So I'm pretty confident about that. I think the only question about clean energy is the timing of some of these projects. If I look at all the projects we track, the number is well into the billions of dollars. But how many of these go forward, at what pace, I think really remains to be seen.

我——這很難預測。我認為電子相關的專案會持續存在，所以我對此相當有信心。至於潔淨能源，唯一的問題是其中一些專案的時點。如果我看我們追蹤的所有專案，金額早已達到數十億美元。但其中有多少會推進、以什麼速度推進，我認為仍有待觀察。

I do think over the next 3 years, we'll probably spend $1 billion of CapEx against clean energy. But again, that's based on my assumptions of when some of these projects are likely to break loose. Obviously, what we're working on far exceeds that, but I think that's kind of a reasonable expectation that we have here internally.

我確實認為在未來 3 年，我們可能會在潔淨能源上投入 10 億美元的資本支出（CapEx）。但同樣地，這是基於我對其中一些專案何時可能真正啟動的假設。顯然，我們正在推進的工作遠超過這個數字，但我認為這是我們內部相對合理的預期。

With respect to the rest of the backlog, it's really a function of demand, John. So I think if demand comes back, you'll see some of these oil and gas companies, for example, starting to spend money on decarbonization projects, really with or without regulations because I know they want to, but really, they're not in a financial condition to do that today. So it really hinges more on demand, I would say.

至於其餘的在手訂單，John，這真的取決於需求。因此我認為如果需求回來了，你會看到例如一些油氣公司開始在去碳化專案上花錢，基本上不論是否有法規，因為我知道他們想做；但坦白說，他們目前的財務狀況還不足以支撐。也就是說，我會說更關鍵的是需求。

Got it. Fair enough. And I guess maybe to that. So 2Q, obviously, is a pretty big drop and 3 bounced back pretty solidly. When you think about the take-or-pay thresholds that you have and that it does sound like it certainly helped a lot in 2Q and maybe a bit in 3Q as well.

了解。很合理。我想也延伸問一下：第二季顯然下滑很大，而第三季反彈相當不錯。當你們看待你們的 take-or-pay（照付不議）門檻時，聽起來它在第二季幫助很大，第三季可能也有一些幫助。

I guess, is there a way to think about what percentage of the business kind of at that watermark or above now where incremental volumes actually do fall directly to the bottom line versus maybe not? Like how should we be thinking about that?

我想問的是，有沒有一種方式可以理解：目前有多少比例的業務已經在那個水位（門檻）或以上，使得新增的出貨量會直接反映到最終獲利（bottom line），而不是不會？我們應該如何思考？

Yes. John, this is Matt. I think -- you may recall, when we had spoken last quarter about the 65% of the defensive sales, and about half of that is protected contractually. A large portion in addition to the take-or-pay also is rent. So the rent continues throughout on the package. On the on-site, to your point on take-or-pay, we have a few that may be at that level. In South America, you tend to have a few. You see a little more in certain markets like metals today that are running at lower levels. But these are pretty traditional and consistent of what we've seen in past cycles.

是的。John，我是 Matt。我想——你可能記得，上季我們談到 65% 的防禦型銷售，其中大約一半受到合約保護。除了 take-or-pay 之外，還有很大一部分是租金（rent）。因此，套裝（packaged）業務的租金會持續收取。至於現場（on-site）業務，就你提到的 take-or-pay 而言，我們有少數可能落在那個水位。在南美通常會有幾個；你也會在某些市場看到更多，例如目前金屬相關市場的運轉水準較低。但這些都相當傳統，也與我們在過去景氣循環中看到的情況一致。

So I'd say for the most part though, South America, a few in Europe. And as you look at our working capital performance and our cash flows, obviously, we continue to get paid. And a lot of the reason is because we're connected to top-tier players in those regions and in those markets. So that does insulate us, and we expect that these will come back up as we've seen in prior cycles.

所以我會說，大多數是在南美，歐洲也有少數。而且從我們的營運資金表現與現金流來看，顯然我們仍持續收到款項。很大一部分原因是我們在那些地區與市場連結的是一流客戶。因此這確實能隔離風險，我們也預期它們會像以往循環一樣回升。

Up next, we have Vincent Andrews of Morgan Stanley.

接下來是 Morgan Stanley 的 Vincent Andrews。

This is Angel Castillo on for Vincent. Just a quick question on pricing. It sounds like you expect it to continue to be positive. It was very strong in the third quarter here. So just as we think about the fourth quarter, one, what is kind of embedded in the guidance? And two, how should we think about it going into 2021?

我是代替 Vincent 的 Angel Castillo。關於定價想快速問一下。聽起來你們預期定價仍會維持正向；第三季表現非常強勁。那麼在看第四季時，第一，指引中大概隱含了什麼？第二，展望 2021 年我們應該如何看待？

It's been obviously solid over the last few years, but is that kind of 1% to 2% still the range that you're thinking about? And why maybe kind of the lower end versus the higher end of that?

過去幾年顯然都很穩健，但你們仍認為 1% 到 2% 是合理區間嗎？以及為什麼可能偏向區間的低端而不是高端？

Well, I think going Q3 to Q4, I wouldn't expect to see much in the way of sequential pricing because a lot of our price increases are really geared more towards the beginning of the year. So I think it's kind of in the round there. It may end up being plus 1, but I'm not anticipating that now.

我想從第三季到第四季，我不預期會看到太多的季比季（sequential）定價變化，因為我們許多漲價主要是集中在年初。因此我認為大致就在那個範圍內。最後可能會是 +1%，但我現在不會先這麼預期。

And then going forward into next year, every year, we expect to get 1% to 2%. Some years, we've got more, if you go back and look historically, but it's never 0. So that would be my expectation next year.

至於明年往後，每一年我們都預期能拿到 1% 到 2%。有些年份如果你回頭看歷史，我們拿到更多，但從來不是 0。所以這會是我對明年的預期。

Great. And then in terms of margin, so you talked about the strong margin in the Americas and some of what drove that. As we look at the coming year, do you expect most of the margin expansion to come in the other regions?

了解。那在毛利率方面，你提到美洲地區毛利率很強，以及一些驅動因素。當我們看明年，你是否預期大部分的毛利率擴張會來自其他地區？

And is it fair to think about the current level of the Americas is rather stable going forward? And if you could kind of give some more color on the other regions and what kind of level of margin expansion we could expect.

而且是否可以合理地認為，美洲目前的水準往後相對穩定？如果可以的話，也請你多談一些其他地區，以及我們可以期待的毛利率擴張幅度大概如何。

Well, I don't expect to go backwards anywhere. And a lot -- the good work that we have put in is going to continue to pay dividends going forward. So we will be stable at least at these margin levels. But what will lift the margin levels will be volumes coming back. We're still below last year. Everyone is. And as volumes recover to something more normal, we'd certainly expect to leverage that just like we did from Q2 to Q3.

我不預期任何地方會倒退。而且我們投入的許多良好工作，未來會持續帶來成果。因此至少在這些毛利率水準上會維持穩定。但真正能推升毛利率水準的是出貨量回升。我們仍低於去年，大家都是。當出貨量回到更正常的水準時，我們當然預期能放大槓桿效益，就像我們從第二季到第三季所做的一樣。

And as far as the margins in the Americas, I mean, again, the team did a good job on cost. They've always done a good job on cost. They've always had strong productivity programs. The pricing is there. The commercial terms and conditions, all of those, rental fees, storage fees, take or pays, all of that held up exceptionally well. Resilient markets are good for us, health care, food freezing, particularly in Americas and also in Europe. So that's what drove that level of profitability.

至於美洲的毛利率，我的意思是，團隊在成本上做得很好；他們一向在成本上表現出色，也一直有很強的生產力提升計畫。定價也到位。商業條款與條件——包括租賃費、儲存費、take-or-pay 等——都維持得非常好。具韌性的市場對我們有利，例如醫療保健、食品冷凍，特別是在美洲，也包括歐洲。這些就是推動那個獲利水準的因素。

And really, our philosophy here, and it's not rocket science, but as we look at all businesses, large and small and we get very granular in terms of how we can improve the profitability of all of them.

而且我們在這裡的理念其實不複雜：我們檢視所有業務，不論大小，並在如何提升每一項業務的獲利能力上做到非常細緻。

And we have Jeff Zekauskas of JPMorgan.

接下來是 JPMorgan 的 Jeff Zekauskas。

Two questions. Is -- has the focus of cost-cutting been in the United States, and in the subsequent quarters, we'll see it more in Europe and in other areas?

兩個問題。第一——成本削減的重點是否主要在美國，而在接下來幾季會更多轉向歐洲及其他地區？

And second, in your sequential price improvement, is it broad-based? That is, are oxygen and nitrogen prices up sequentially? Or is it more eccentric and maybe it has to do with hydrogen or something like that?

第二，關於你們季比季的價格改善，是全面性的嗎？也就是說，氧氣與氮氣的價格是否也季比季上升？還是比較偏個別項目，可能與氫氣之類有關？

Well, there has been some contribution year-over-year from helium, probably somewhere in the order of 25% to 30% contribution in pricing. But sequentially, probably none because that price increases were obtained in prior quarters and wouldn't see much in the way of sequential help from helium.

嗯，氦氣（helium）在年比年方面確實有一些貢獻，可能約占定價貢獻的 25% 到 30%。但就季比季而言，可能沒有，因為那些漲價是在前幾季就已取得，因此不會在氦氣上看到太多季比季的助益。

So the answer to that, it's really more broad. I've looked at all of our packaged gas businesses. They have good price increases, good price realization, I should say. Merchant liquid, I see pretty good price realization across the board. So it's not 1 or 2 products that are driving all of the price increases. And if it was, it wouldn't be -- it wouldn't have the -- it wouldn't be as long lasting as if we had, had it broad based. So it's always -- we always work on it broad based.

所以對那個問題的回答是：其實更偏全面性。我看過我們所有的瓶裝氣體（packaged gas）業務，它們都有不錯的漲價、應該說是不錯的價格落實（price realization）。在商用液體（merchant liquid）方面，我也看到整體都有相當不錯的價格落實。因此並不是 1、2 個產品在推動所有漲價。如果是那樣，它就不會——它就不會像我們現在這種全面性的作法一樣持久。所以我們一向——我們一直都是以全面性的方式來推進。

On cost, cost cutting, I mean, certainly in places like Americas, and I would say even Asia, we could respond a little more quickly in terms of cost. But we have been doing the same in Europe. And it's taken a little longer. As we said in the beginning, we have to work through the process there, which we've always known we needed to do. I think the process is a good process in many ways because it forces you to get very detailed and granular in terms of what cost actions you're taking and why.

就成本、成本削減而言，我的意思是，當然在美洲這樣的地區，我甚至會說在亞洲，我們在成本面向的反應速度可以更快一些。但我們在歐洲也一直在做同樣的事，只是花的時間稍微久一點。正如我們一開始所說，我們必須在那裡把流程走完，而我們一直都知道這是我們需要做的。我認為這個流程在很多方面是個好流程，因為它會迫使你在你採取哪些成本行動以及為什麼採取這些行動上，做到非常細緻、非常具體、顆粒度很高。

But we've been making good progress with that, and we will continue to do that in EMEA. So one could look at that and say, "Perhaps there's more opportunity over the long-term in terms of operating margin improvement." And that's probably the case.

但我們在這方面已經取得了不錯的進展，而且我們會在EMEA持續推進。所以有人可能會看著這點說：「也許從長期來看，在營業利益率改善方面還有更多機會。」而這大概確實如此。

And next, we have Mike Sison of Wells Fargo.

接下來是富國銀行（Wells Fargo）的Mike Sison。

Steve, when you think about your earnings growth, 12% in a tough year, it's pretty impressive. What's sort of the cadence of growth and maybe some of the variables if we ever get back to 2%, 3%, 4% type of global industrial production growth?

Steve，當你思考你們的獲利成長時，在艱難的一年還能有12%的成長，這相當令人印象深刻。如果全球工業生產成長回到2%、3%、4%那樣的水準，成長的節奏會是什麼樣子？以及可能有哪些變數？

You mean how should I think about that in terms of margin lift?

你的意思是，我應該如何從毛利率提升的角度來思考這件事嗎？

Well, I would imagine the growth to be better than 12%, right? So just -- I'd just be curious where that could be.

嗯，我想像成長應該會比12%更好，對吧？所以——我只是好奇那可能會到什麼程度。

Well, I think -- well, look, the way I have to think about it is -- and again, we'll be back in January. We'll give you a lot more color around this. And what I said in my comments were, if volumes are stable and maybe we can get a little help, it doesn't have to be much, continue to get some pricing, execute the backlog, continue our productivity, that would give me confidence that we'll have a double-digit earnings growth next year.

嗯，我想——嗯，聽著，我必須這樣思考——而且再說一次，我們一月會再回來，會給你更多這方面的細節。我在發言裡說的是，如果量能保持穩定，或許還能得到一點點助力，其實不需要太多；持續取得一些定價；執行手上積壓訂單；持續提升生產力——這些都會讓我有信心明年仍能達到兩位數的獲利成長。

And obviously, there's a lot of leverage around volume, just as there is around pricing in terms of how that falls to the EPS line. But we'll be back to talk more about that later.

而且很明顯，量能帶來的槓桿很大，就像定價對EPS端的落點也有很大的槓桿一樣。但我們之後會再回來更深入談這件事。

Understood. And then natural gas prices have gone up. Maybe it's a little bit more seasonality or whatever. But historically, when gas prices go up, it tends to be good for industrial gases. Do you think there's any fundamental potential positives with gas prices up here?

了解。那天然氣價格上漲了，可能有一點季節性或其他因素。但歷史上，當天然氣價格上漲時，通常對工業氣體是有利的。你認為在天然氣價格上漲的情況下，是否有任何基本面上的潛在正面因素？

I think if you're thinking back to some of the old days where natural gas prices got into the $6, $7 range, and therefore, slot of our applications like oxyfuel combustion that would reduce the use of natural gas were more valuable. I don't see natural gas prices moving to that point that would make -- that it would accelerate that kind of activity.

我想如果你回想一些過去的時期，天然氣價格曾到每百萬英熱單位6、7美元的區間，因此我們一些像氧燃料燃燒（oxyfuel combustion）這類能降低天然氣使用量的應用就更有價值。但我不認為天然氣價格會走到那個程度，足以——也就是說，不會加速那類活動。

$2, $3 natural gas, I mean, it's all passed through on the hydrogen side. So it does make hydrogen a little bit more expensive. And I think if you're trying to think about it in terms of green hydrogen, for example, versus gray hydrogen, gray hydrogen prices are really a function of natural gas whereas the green hydrogen is really a function of renewable power prices and also our ability to lower capital and lower operating costs to make electrolytic hydrogen more competitive. But that's really it.

在2、3美元的天然氣價格水準下，我的意思是，在氫氣業務那邊基本上都是轉嫁的。所以它確實會讓氫氣稍微變貴一些。我想如果你從綠氫（green hydrogen）相對於灰氫（gray hydrogen）的角度來看，灰氫價格其實主要取決於天然氣；而綠氫主要取決於再生能源電力價格，以及我們降低資本支出與降低營運成本、讓電解製氫更具競爭力的能力。大概就是這樣。

And next, we have Steve Byrne of Bank of America.

接下來是美國銀行（Bank of America）的Steve Byrne。

Steve, you mentioned medical oxygen being strong due to COVID. Another one of your medical gas is nitric oxide. You have one competitor, Mallinckrodt, that went -- filed for bankruptcy a few weeks ago. Do you see potential for meaningful share gains with that product?

Steve，你提到醫用氧因COVID而表現強勁。你們另一項醫療氣體是一氧化氮（nitric oxide）。你們有一個競爭對手Mallinckrodt，幾週前申請了破產。你是否看到這個產品有機會取得顯著的市占率提升？

And I know you can't advocate off-label use, but docs have the liberty to do that. Are you seeing any growth in that product just driven to treat COVID patients?

我知道你不能倡導適應症外使用（off-label use），但醫師有這樣做的自由。你是否看到這個產品有任何成長，是因為用來治療COVID病患所帶動的？

Well, Steve, you know a lot about this topic. So clearly, Mallinckrodt had a -- practically all the market share at one time, which is why we chose to enter this space. The business is growing nicely. We are seeing nice receptivity to being in the marketplace. Clearly, that competitor, Mallinckrodt, certainly wants to hang on to what they have, which is what we anticipated they would do.

嗯，Steve，你對這個主題很了解。所以很明顯，Mallinckrodt曾經幾乎擁有全部的市占率，這也是我們選擇進入這個領域的原因。這項業務成長得不錯，我們也看到市場對我們進入市場的接受度很高。很明顯，那個競爭對手Mallinckrodt當然想守住他們既有的份額，這也正是我們預期他們會做的。

The growth has been somewhat muted recently because of COVID, right? So you need to get in there. You need to make your presentations. You need to set up the equipment. You need to provide the cylinders. And so the ability to really have those engagements has been slowed somewhat because of COVID. So -- but as far as the demand, the potential, the excitement, quite frankly, that we are in the business, that's still there.

最近成長有些受抑制，因為COVID，對吧？你需要進去、做簡報、架設設備、提供鋼瓶。因此，真正能進行這些互動的能力因COVID而有所放緩。所以——但就需求、潛力，以及坦白說市場對我們投入這項業務的興奮感而言，這些仍然存在。

With respect to off-label use, you're correct. We can't -- certainly can't advocate for off-label use as our lawyers make it very clear to us. I don't ask the question in terms of how much nitric oxide is being used to fight COVID, for example, though there are studies out there that say that it is effective against COVID. So I really can't answer that question. But I'm aware that some of that's taken place.

至於適應症外使用，你說得沒錯。我們不能——當然不能倡導適應症外使用，我們的律師也把這點講得非常清楚。我不會去問例如有多少一氧化氮被用來對抗COVID之類的問題，儘管外面確實有研究指出它對COVID有效。所以我真的無法回答那個問題。但我知道確實有一些這樣的情況發生。

And one on your backlog of sale of gas. What fraction of it would you say, whether it's Asia or your refinery customer base, is tied into either your existing pipelines or an expansion of your pipeline network that represents really an investment longer term for you to enable subsequent projects at a more modest capital cost?

再問一個關於你們氣體銷售積壓訂單（backlog）的问题。你會說其中有多少比例——不論是在亞洲或你們的煉油客戶群——是與你們既有管線相連，或是與你們管線網路的擴建相關？這些其實代表你們為了長期布局所做的投資，以便後續專案能以較溫和的資本成本來推進。

I would say the major percent of it, a huge percent of that is tied to existing complexes, enclaves that we were in, that we were able to either extend the pipeline or add to a plant and be able to serve, not only a baseload customer, but other customers in that park. So I didn't add up the percent, but I can look at the large projects, and it's a major percent of that $3.7 billion.

我會說其中主要的比例、非常大的一部分，是與我們既有的園區、既有的聚落（enclaves）綁在一起；我們能夠延伸管線或擴增工廠產能，進而服務不僅是一個基載客戶（baseload customer），也能服務該園區內的其他客戶。我沒有把百分比加總出來，但我可以看那些大型專案，那占了那37億美元中的主要比例。

Yes. And Steve, this is Matt. Even that -- to Steve's point, that aspect also helped us win that, right, with our existing asset base and reliability of having that existing network density was also part of our ability to secure those contracts.

是的。Steve，我是Matt。甚至——呼應Steve的觀點——那一點也幫助我們贏得那些案子，對吧？我們既有的資產基礎與可靠性，以及既有網路密度所帶來的優勢，也是我們能夠拿下那些合約的一部分原因。

And next, we have Kevin McCarthy of Vertical Research.

接下來是Vertical Research的Kevin McCarthy。

This is Cory on for Kevin. To an earlier question about hydrogen investment, you had said that -- you described it as rifle shots. Given the increasing support for green hydrogen, for instance, Chile's government this week, put out a plan (inaudible) geographically, where do you see green hydrogen opportunity that might the rifle shot description or something like what you did with your plant in California where you upgraded

我是Cory，代Kevin提問。針對先前關於氫能投資的問題，你曾說——你把它形容為「步槍點射」（rifle shots）。鑑於對綠氫的支持正在增加，例如智利政府本週提出了一項計畫（聽不清），從地理分布來看，你在哪些地方看到綠氫機會，可能符合你所說的步槍點射式機會？或是像你們在加州的工廠那樣，你們進行升級的那種做法？

(technical difficulty)

（技術問題）

This is the operator. I'm sorry about that. I want to ask Mr. Murphy to call back in. There was a lot of static on his line.

我是接線員。很抱歉。我想請Murphy先生再撥回來。他的線路雜訊很大。

(inaudible) because the participant numbers went down.

（聽不清）因為參與者人數下降了。

Everybody was kicked off.

大家都被踢下線了。

Speakers, can anybody hear me?

各位講者，有人聽得到我嗎？

Chris, are you there?

Chris，你在嗎？

Yes. Are you able to hear me?

在。你們聽得到我嗎？

Now we can.

現在聽得到。

Okay. I asked Mr. McCarthy (sic) [Murphy] to call back in. There was a lot of static on the line.

好的。我請McCarthy先生（原文誤稱）[Murphy]再撥回來。他的線路雜訊很大。

Was it his line?

是他的線路嗎？

Yes, unfortunately.

是的，很不幸。

Okay.

好的。

Okay. Let's move to the next call.

好的。我們進到下一通。

Next, we have P.J. Juvekar of Citigroup.

接下來是花旗集團（Citigroup）的P.J. Juvekar。

First of all, Sanjiv, congratulations.

首先，Sanjiv，恭喜。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Steve, I have a question for you. You talked about your hydrogen strategy as being local and in market. Then I look at some of the projects, including some recent ones by fertilizer companies, where they want to take -- they don't want to ship green hydrogen, or I should say, green ammonia globally, and your strategy seems to be deliberate in market.

Steve，我有個問題想問你。你談到你們的氫能策略是「在地化」與「在市場內」。但我看一些專案，包括一些肥料公司最近的案子，他們想要——他們不想運送綠氫，或者我應該說，不想在全球運送綠氨（green ammonia），而你們的策略看起來是刻意在市場內布局。

Can you just sort of talk about your strategy? And what are the risks of shipping it globally as how you see it today?

你能否談談你們的策略？以及就你目前的看法，全球運輸它的風險是什麼？

Well, I think -- it's not that I am opposed to any kind of global strategy in terms of delivering product. What I see is that every country wants to develop their natural resources with respect to what they believe gives them a competitive advantage. And I think if you look at all the countries we're really in today, every one of those countries wants to develop their own renewable power. They want to develop their clean hydrogen infrastructure. And why is that?

嗯，我想——並不是說我反對任何形式的全球策略來交付產品。我看到的是，每個國家都想就其認為能帶來競爭優勢的自然資源來進行開發。我認為如果你看我們目前真正所在的所有國家，每一個國家都想發展自己的再生能源電力，想發展自己的潔淨氫能基礎設施。那為什麼要這樣做？

Well, it's stimulus for their economy. It's employment for their people. It's energy security. So that's why we like to look at this more granularly in terms of what's really going on in the ground and find projects we can get our arms around, we can understand, we can understand the returns, we can have confidence in the investment. And I think that's going to be the best way to go.

嗯，這對他們的經濟是一種刺激。這為他們的人民創造就業。這是能源安全。所以這就是為什麼我們喜歡以更細緻的方式來看待這件事，了解地面上真正發生了什麼，並找出我們能夠掌握、能夠理解、能夠理解回報、並且對投資有信心的專案。我認為那將是最好的做法。

But you will hear about projects in places like Australia. You might hear them in Saudi or Northern Africa or other parts of the world. Chile, where they think they have an advantage, for example, on renewable power, and they want to exploit that. But you've also got to think in terms of all these countries that have an abundance of natural gas. The U.S., Russia, Northern Africa, Canada, Australia, all of these countries who will also look to monetize those natural gas resources and make what a lot of people call blue hydrogen, which can be very cost-competitive versus green hydrogen, depending on the cost of natural gas, for example, and the comparable cost against renewable power.

但你會聽到在像澳洲這樣的地方有一些專案。你可能也會在沙烏地或北非或世界其他地區聽到。智利也是，他們認為自己有優勢，例如在再生能源電力方面，並且想要加以利用。但你也必須從這樣的角度思考：所有這些擁有豐富天然氣的國家。美國、俄羅斯、北非、加拿大、澳洲，所有這些國家也都會尋求將那些天然氣資源變現，並製造許多人所稱的藍氫；相較於綠氫，藍氫在成本上可能非常具有競爭力，這取決於例如天然氣成本，以及與再生能源電力的相對成本比較。

So you're going to see all of these play out. And the way I think about it is, it's potentially a huge market. It is all additive to us in terms of opportunity, and we want to just find the right places to play around the world, in places that we already have a clear investment.

所以你會看到這些都會逐步展開。而我看待它的方式是：這可能是一個巨大的市場。就機會而言，這對我們都是增量，我們只想在全球找到合適的參與地點，尤其是在我們已經有明確投資布局的地方。

Okay. That's clear. And a quick question on Latin America, specifically Brazil, given sort of the COVID impact in the country and the volatility of Brazilian real. Can you just talk about sort of price and volume trends of what you're seeing there?

好的。很清楚。再快速問一個關於拉丁美洲、特別是巴西的問題：考量到該國的 COVID 影響以及巴西雷亞爾的波動，你能談談你們在那裡看到的價格與銷量趨勢嗎？

Well, what you're seeing in a place like Brazil, it's also across the rest of Latin America is a high demand for health care, a very high demand for medical oxygen. We are the industry leader there. We've been the industry leader. So clearly, we're in an excellent position to serve.

嗯，你在像巴西這樣的地方看到的情況，其實也同樣發生在拉丁美洲其他地區：對醫療保健的需求很高，對醫用氧氣的需求非常高。我們在那裡是產業領導者，一直都是。因此很明顯，我們處於極佳的位置來提供服務。

And with respect to pricing, we're in pretty good shape. They have historically done a good job, and they continue to do a good job, which is why I look at the performance. If you were to look at it, you would say, "What COVID?" But obviously, the dynamics underneath where health care is much stronger, the metals and manufacturing are weaker, is what's really going on beneath the covers.

至於定價方面，我們的狀況相當不錯。他們過去一直做得很好，現在也持續做得很好，這也是為什麼我看績效表現時，如果你去看，你會說：「哪裡有 COVID？」但顯然，底層的動態是醫療保健強很多，而金屬與製造業較弱，這才是檯面下真正發生的事。

With respect to when the governments will ever address their issues and be in a position maybe to go back to where they've been, that kind of remains to be seen.

至於政府何時會處理他們的問題，並可能回到過去的狀態，這點仍有待觀察。

I'm sorry, can you address the FX question because the real kind of took a dive, but it doesn't seem -- it's not apparent in your numbers.

不好意思，你能回應一下外匯的問題嗎？因為雷亞爾確實大幅下跌，但在你們的數字裡似乎——看不太出來。

Sorry. I missed that. I'll let Matt...

抱歉，我漏聽了。我讓 Matt 來……

P.J., this is Matt. Yes, no problem. You will see -- and as I mentioned, obviously, the real, the Mexican peso, the Argentinian peso, all took a dive. But as I mentioned, the euro and the Chinese -- the CNY, the RMB, helped offset that on a global level.

P.J.，我是 Matt。好的，沒問題。你會看到——如我提到的，顯然雷亞爾、墨西哥披索、阿根廷披索都大幅下跌。但如我所說，歐元以及中國——CNY、RMB，在全球層面上幫助抵銷了這些影響。

But as Steve mentioned, in addition to those devaluations, you get more inflation than what you would see vis-à-vis some other more developed nations. And that higher inflation, the team has done a great job to recover through the pricing actions to make sure we can stay in line with what's happening in inflation on the ground, and they do a good job to maintain their costs. So by getting that positive spread, it helps insulate the business from some of these more significant devaluations and the effects that have.

但如 Steve 提到的，除了那些貶值之外，你還會看到比一些更成熟國家更高的通膨。而面對較高的通膨，團隊透過定價行動做得非常好，確保我們能跟上當地通膨的變化，同時他們也很擅長維持成本。因此透過取得正向價差，有助於讓業務在面對一些較顯著的貶值及其影響時，得到一定程度的隔離與緩衝。

And next, we have Markus Mayer of Baader-Helvea.

接下來是 Baader-Helvea 的 Markus Mayer。

I have too many questions, but basically add-on questions to what have been asked before. Again, on the helium market. Could you give us an update there? How you see potential additional capacities and how they will affect the market, at least from your side? That would be my first question.

我有太多問題，但基本上是對先前問題的延伸追問。再次關於氦氣市場。你能給我們一個最新狀況嗎？你如何看待可能新增的產能，以及它們將如何影響市場，至少從你們的角度來看？這是我的第一個問題。

And the second question, again, on the project CapEx statements. You've said it was heavily down in the third quarter. And with your assumptions for lower backlog for 2021, what should we expect for project CapEx for 2021? Is there another decline then basically implied in the statement of you? Or should we then also go for non-growth CapEx next year?

第二個問題，同樣是關於專案資本支出（CapEx）的說法。你們說第三季大幅下降。以你們對 2021 年較低在手訂單（backlog）的假設來看，我們對 2021 年的專案 CapEx 應該期待什麼？你們的說法是否意味著還會再下降？或者明年我們也應該把重點放在非成長性 CapEx？

Well, we haven't -- I haven't really looked at the numbers for next year yet, and it's a -- and we have some time to do that. But in terms of CapEx spend rate, you shouldn't expect much of a change year-to-year because these are monies that are being spent against projects that we still have to complete.

嗯，我們還沒有——我其實還沒真正看過明年的數字，而且——我們還有一些時間可以做這件事。但就 CapEx 的支出速度而言，你不應該預期年對年會有太大變化，因為這些資金是用在我們仍需完成的專案上。

So we'll refine that number more going in next year, but it's not like a backlog number that can move around quite a bit based on projects being added or projects being started up. It's much more level loaded in that respect.

所以我們在進入明年時會更精確地調整那個數字，但它不像在手訂單那樣，會因為新增專案或專案啟動而大幅波動。就這點而言，它的配置更為平均、較為平穩。

And you were asking something about potential capacity for Europe, and I apologize, I really didn't pick up the question. Oh, helium.

你剛才問到一些關於歐洲潛在產能的事，我很抱歉，我真的沒有聽清楚問題。喔，氦氣。

Helium.

氦氣。

Okay, helium capacity. Well, so first of all, helium demand is weak as a result of really just the general use of helium. But also, fiber optics is down a bit. MRI is probably holding up okay, but not as strong as it could be with COVID. And then electronics would be more of the positive -- one of the more positive market segments that helium serves.

好的，氦氣產能。首先，氦氣需求疲弱，主要是因為氦氣的一般用途整體走弱。此外，光纖市場也下滑了一些。MRI 可能還撐得住，但在 COVID 之下沒有原本可能那麼強。然後電子產品會是較正面的——也是氦氣服務的較正面市場區隔之一。

But then again, balloons, which although not a huge percent, are very profitable and that's been way down as a result of COVID. So generally speaking, demand has been weak. I think when that turns itself around, again, will be a function, I think, of COVID and when COVID has passed us.

但再者，氣球雖然占比不大，但利潤很高，而因為 COVID 的關係，這部分大幅下滑。所以整體而言，需求一直偏弱。我認為何時會回升，仍將取決於 COVID，以及 COVID 何時過去。

With respect to supply coming on, I don't expect to see much in the way of supply until probably the end of next year, maybe even the beginning of following year if we're talking about supply out of Siberia. But I think supply, again, don't expect to see much in the way of supply towards the end of next year.

至於供給的新增，我預期在明年年底之前大概不會看到太多供給，若談的是來自西伯利亞的供給，甚至可能要到後一年年初。但我認為供給方面，同樣地，不要預期在明年年底之前會看到太多新增供給。

And speakers, that was the last question. I will now hand it over to Juan Pelaez for closing comments.

各位講者，這是最後一個問題。現在我把時間交給 Juan Pelaez 做結語。

Yes. Chris, thank you, and thanks, everyone, for participating in today's call. If you have any further questions, please feel free to reach out to me directly. Stay safe. Bye.

是的。Chris，謝謝你，也謝謝各位參與今天的電話會議。如果你們還有任何進一步的問題，請隨時直接與我聯繫。請注意安全。再見。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you all for participating. You may now disconnect, and have a pleasant day.

各位女士先生，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位參與。您現在可以掛線，祝您有美好的一天。