KeyCorp (KEY) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to KeyCorp's fourth quarter earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

早上好，歡迎參加 KeyCorp 第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Brian Mauney, KeyCorp Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給 KeyCorp 投資者關係總監 Brian Mauney。請繼續。

Thank you, operator, and good morning, everyone. I'd like to thank you for joining KeyCorp's fourth-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. I'm here with Chris Gorman, our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Clark Khayat, our Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝接線員，大家早安。感謝您參加 KeyCorp 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。今天和我一起在場的是我們的董事長兼執行長 Chris Gorman；以及我們的財務長 Clark Khayat。

As usual, we will reference our earnings presentation slides, which can be found in the Investor Relations section of the key.com website. In the back of the presentation, you will hand our statement on forward-looking disclosures and certain financial measures, including non-GAAP measures. This covers our earnings materials as well as remarks made on this morning's call. Actual results may differ materially from forward-looking statements and those statements speak only as of today, January 21, 2025, and will not be updated.

像往常一樣，我們將參考我們的收益簡報幻燈片，可以在 key.com 網站的投資者關係部分找到。在簡報的後面，您將會看到我們關於前瞻性揭露和某些財務指標（包括非公認會計準則指標）的聲明。這包括我們的收益資料以及今天早上電話會議上的評論。實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述有重大差異，且這些陳述僅代表截至 2025 年 1 月 21 日的觀點，且不會更新。

With that, I will turn it over to Chris.

說完這些，我將把麥克風交給克里斯。

Thank you, Brian, and good morning, everyone. Our fourth quarter results marked another significant milestone for Key as we continue our journey to realize our full earnings potential. We reported an EPS loss of $0.28 per share. However, after adjusting for the impact of our second strategic securities repositioning, which we completed in December, EPS was a positive $0.38.

謝謝你，布萊恩，大家早安。我們第四季的業績標誌著 Key 的另一個重要里程碑，我們將繼續努力實現全部獲利潛力。我們報告每股收益虧損 0.28 美元。然而，在調整了我們 12 月完成的第二次策略性證券重新定位的影響後，每股收益為正 0.38 美元。

In the fourth quarter, we took the opportunity to incur approximately $50 million of elevated expenses that we would not expect to recur. Our revenue momentum is clearly defined and significant. Adjusting for the securities repositioning, revenue was up 11% sequentially and up 16% versus the prior year. Both net interest income and adjusted fees grew double digits.

在第四季度，我們藉此機會承擔了約 5000 萬美元的增加費用，這些費用預計不會再次發生。我們的收入動能明確且顯著。經證券重新定位調整後，營收比上一季成長 11%，較上年成長 16%。淨利息收入和調整後費用均達到兩位數成長。

Regarding NII, while loan demand remained soft, we exceeded our fourth quarter exit rate commitment by driving another strong quarter of client deposit growth, up 1.5% sequentially and 4% year-over-year.

至於 NII，雖然貸款需求依然疲軟，但我們超額完成了第四季度的退出利率承諾，推動客戶存款再創歷史新高，環比增​​長 1.5%，同比增長 4%。

Concurrently, we continue to execute our disciplined and proactive deposit repricing plan. Deposit betas have been stronger than expected, 40% from the first rate cut.

同時，我們繼續執行嚴謹、積極主動的存款重新定價計畫。存款貝塔係數強於預期，較第一次降息時上漲了 40%。

Additionally, I continue to be encouraged by our strong credit performance. Credit migration improved for the fourth consecutive quarter. Criticized loans were down another $500 million and net charge-offs were down $40 million sequentially. Nonperforming assets are peaking and assuming the macro environment remains constructive for the balance of the year, we expect nonperforming loans to begin to decline by midyear.

此外，我們強勁的信用表現持續令我感到鼓舞。信貸遷移連續四季改善。受到批評的貸款又減少了 5 億美元，淨沖銷額比上一季減少了 4,000 萬美元。不良資產正在達到頂峰，假設宏觀環境在今年餘下時間內保持良好，我們預計不良貸款將在年中開始下降。

For the full year, I am proud that we met or exceeded the financial targets on an operating basis that we detailed for you at the beginning of 2024. Net interest income was in the middle of our targeted range and our exit rate was favorable. Fee growth was stronger than expected, more than offsetting the related expense levels. We achieved meaningful positive operating leverage in the second half of the year. Full year net charge-offs were in line with guidance. Throughout the year, we continued to lay the groundwork that positions Key to continue to deliver outsized growth and operating leverage in 2025.

就全年而言，我很自豪我們達到或超過了我們在 2024 年初為您詳述的營運財務目標。淨利息收入處於我們目標範圍的中間，而且我們的退出率也很有利。費用增長強於預期，超過了相關的支出水準。我們在下半年實現了有意義的正經營槓桿。全年淨沖銷額符合預期。在這一年中，我們不斷奠定基礎，確保 Key 在 2025 年繼續實現超額成長和營運槓桿。

In Consumer, we grew relationship households in excess of 3% for the second consecutive year, including growth of 5% to 8% throughout our Western markets. In our Eastern markets, we continue to grow households while continuing to penetrate the substantial wealth opportunity that exists in our scaled, mature markets. As of year-end, our assets under management reached another record of approximately $61.4 billion.

在消費者領域，我們連續第二年實現關係家庭成長超過 3%，其中整個西方市場的成長率為 5% 至 8%。在我們的東部市場，我們繼續增加家庭數量，同時繼續滲透規模龐大的成熟市場中存在的巨大財富機會。截至年底，我們的管理資產再創歷史新高，達到約614億美元。

Sales production in our mass affluent segment also was record-setting. We enrolled an additional 5,000 clients and added over $500 million to the platform in the fourth quarter. Further, in the last two years, our mass affluent segment has added nearly 40,000 households with over $2 billion of AUM and almost $4.5 billion of total client assets. Concurrently, we have hired over 170 wealth professionals onto our platform, and we plan to hire another 60 or so in 2025.

我們大眾富裕階層的銷售額也創下了紀錄。我們在第四季新增了 5,000 名客戶，並為平台注入了超過 5 億美元的資金。此外，在過去兩年中，我們的大眾富裕階層增加了近 40,000 個家庭，資產管理規模超過 20 億美元，客戶總資產近 45 億美元。同時，我們已在平台上招募了170多名財富專業人士，並計劃在2025年再招聘60名左右。

Turning to Commercial Payments and Deposits. Commercial Payments revenue grew mid-single digits year-over-year for the fourth quarter, and deposit balances were up 3% year-over-year, while being very disciplined on rate management, a testament to our relationship model.

轉向商業支付和存款。第四季商業支付收入年增中個位數，存款餘額年增 3%，同時在利率管理方面非常嚴格，這證明了我們的關係模式。

Over the last decade, payments has been an area of focus and an area of consistent investment. For example, we were one of the first banks to build embedded banking capabilities. We will continue to develop our differentiated platform with plans to invest in additional software advisers and relationship bankers, enhanced digital and analytics tools, while concurrently continuing to invest in embedded banking.

在過去的十年中，支付一直是我們關注的領域和持續投資的領域。例如，我們是最早建立嵌入式銀行功能的銀行之一。我們將繼續開發我們的差異化平台，並計劃投資更多的軟體顧問和關係銀行家，增強數位和分析工具，同時繼續投資嵌入式銀行業務。

More broadly, in the middle market, we recently expanded our presence in Chicago and Southern California. Our new teams have hit the ground running. New loan volumes improved for the third consecutive quarter, and our pipelines are nearly double those of a year ago. I am confident in our ability to drive commercial loan growth this year.

更廣泛地說，在中端市場，我們最近擴大了在芝加哥和南加州的業務。我們的新團隊已開始全力投入工作。連續第三個季度，新增貸款量增加，我們的貸款管道幾乎是去年同期的兩倍。我對我們今年推動商業貸款成長的能力充滿信心。

Finally, our Investment Banking results were outstanding for both the fourth quarter and for the full year. Fourth quarter fees were a robust $221 million, and full year fees were the second strongest in our history.

最後，我們第四季和全年的投資銀行業績都非常出色。第四季的費用達到了強勁的 2.21 億美元，全年費用是我們歷史上第二高的費用。

Growth this quarter was broad-based across loan syndications, M&A, DCM, and ECM. 2024, we raised over $125 billion of capital for our clients with $54 billion raised in the fourth quarter alone. Importantly, we are off to a strong start in 2025. Our pipelines, most notably M&A, remain at historically elevated levels. We successfully recruited senior bankers last year and plan to hire another 10% in 2025. Subject to the usual market caveats, I remain optimistic with respect to the trajectory of our investment banking business.

本季度的成長廣泛涉及銀團貸款、併購、DCM 和 ECM。 2024年，我們為客戶籌集了超過1,250億美元的資金，光是第四季就籌集了540億美元。重要的是，我們在 2025 年已經有了一個好的開始。我們的管道，尤其是併購管道，仍然處於歷史較高水準。我們去年成功招募了高級銀行家，並計劃在 2025 年再招募 10%。除了常見的市場警告外，我對我們的投資銀行業務的發展方向仍持樂觀態度。

In addition to the investments I just described, I'm also proud of the progress we made on a number of technological front last year. We completed two major core modernization projects. Our core commercial loan platform and our derivatives platform. We also made significant progress on our migration to the cloud, including our contact center technology and our consumer online banking portal. We expect to complete our cloud journey this year.

除了我剛才描述的投資之外，我還為我們去年在多個技術方面的進步感到自豪。我們完成了兩個重大核心現代化專案。我們的核心商業貸款平台和衍生性商品平台。我們在向雲端遷移方面也取得了重大進展，包括我們的聯絡中心技術和我們的消費者網路銀行入口網站。我們預計今年將完成我們的雲端之旅。

At this point, all but two of our major systems and half of our apps have been successfully migrated to a hybrid cloud environment. In 2025, we plan to increase our overall tech spend by about 10% to $900 million, driven by transform or change the bank spend. Our ultimate objective is to make it easier for our clients to bank with key and easier for our teammates to better serve the needs of our clients.

至此，我們除兩個主要係統之外的所有系統和一半的應用程式已成功遷移到混合雲環境。到 2025 年，我們計劃將整體技術支出增加約 10%，達到 9 億美元，這主要透過轉型或改變銀行支出來推動。我們的最終目標是讓我們的客戶更輕鬆地使用金鑰進行銀行業務，並讓我們的隊友更輕鬆地更好地滿足客戶的需求。

Finally, I want to commend our team for the successful closing of the Scotiabank minority investment prior to year-end. Relatedly, I also want to welcome two new Board members, Jacqui Allard and Somesh Khanna. Jacqui and Somesh bring broad-based financial services, digital and technology background that I believe will be additive to our already strong Board of Directors.

最後，我要讚揚我們的團隊在年底前成功完成豐業銀行少數股權投資。與此相關的是，我還要歡迎兩位新董事會成員，Jacqui Allard 和 Somesh Khanna。Jacqui 和 Somesh 擁有廣泛的金融服務、數位和技術背景，我相信這將對我們原本就很強大的董事會增添力量。

I'm also pleased to welcome Mo Ramani to Key as our new Chief Risk Officer. Mo brings a wealth of industry experience, most recently serving as Deputy Chief Risk Officer at a large Category 3 bank.

我也很高興歡迎 Mo Ramani 加入 Key 擔任我們的新首席風險長。Mo 擁有豐富的行業經驗，最近擔任一家大型三類銀行的副首席風險官。

As we turn the page to 2025, we celebrate Key's 200th anniversary. This remarkable achievement is only possible because of the hard work of our teammates, both current and former, and their collective commitment to our clients, our communities, and our shareholders. I am grateful for their dedication to our company and proud to be part of their team.

當我們翻開2025年的新篇章時，我們正在慶祝Key誕生200週年。這項非凡成就的取得離不開我們現任和前任隊友的辛勤工作，以及他們對我們的客戶、社區和股東的共同承諾。我感謝他們對我們公司的奉獻，並為成為他們團隊的一員而感到自豪。

We entered 2025 from a position of strength. At year-end, our reported common equity Tier 1 ratio was 12% and our marked CET1 ratio was 9.8%, both in the top quartile of our peer group. We have pronounced tailwinds across both our net interest income and our high-priority fee-based businesses.

我們以實力雄厚的狀態邁入 2025 年。截至年底，我們報告的普通股一級資本比率為 12%，標記的 CET1 比率為 9.8%，均處於同業的最高水準。我們的淨利息收入和高優先級的收費業務都呈現明顯的順風態勢。

Our credit profile remains strong. While we plan to make targeted investments in additional capabilities this year, we will remain disciplined with respect to our overall expenses, which we expect to grow in the low to mid-single-digit range. As a result, we will drive both fee-based operating leverage as well as a 10% or better overall operating leverage in 2025.

我們的信用狀況依然強勁。雖然我們計劃今年對額外能力進行有針對性的投資，但我們仍將嚴格控制整體支出，預計整體支出將以低至中等個位數成長。因此，到 2025 年，我們將推動基於費用的營運槓桿以及 10% 或更高的整體營運槓桿。

In short, we are well positioned for a very strong year in 2025 and an exit rate that will further position Key for outsized growth again in 2026.

簡而言之，我們已為 2025 年的強勁成長做好了準備，而退出率也將進一步為 Key 在 2026 年再次實現超額成長做好準備。

With that, I will turn the call over to Clark to review the financial results and our 2025 outlook in greater detail. Clark?

說完這些，我將把電話轉給克拉克，讓他更詳細地回顧財務表現和我們 2025 年的展望。克拉克？

Thanks, Chris. Starting on slide 4. We reported a fourth quarter EPS loss of $0.28 or on an adjusted basis, a positive $0.38 per share. Late December, we sold securities with a market value of roughly $3 billion with a weighted average yield of about 1.5% and an average duration of a little over eight years. We fully reinvested the proceeds prior to year-end in primarily three- to five-year duration MBS at a yield pickup of about 400 basis points. These new securities will provide liquidity and capital benefits relative to what was previously owned.

謝謝，克里斯。從投影片 4 開始。我們報告第四季每股收益虧損 0.28 美元，經調整後每股收益為正 0.38 美元。12 月底，我們出售了市值約 30 億美元的證券，加權平均殖利率約為 1.5%，平均期限略長於八年。我們在年底前將收益全部再投資於主要期限為 3 至 5 年的 MBS，收益率上升了約 400 個基點。與先前擁有的證券相比，這些新證券將提供流動性和資本利得。

Consistent with our expectations when we announced the transaction with Scotiabank back in August, we utilized roughly half their capital injection to complete two securities portfolio repositionings, one each in the third and fourth quarter. We sold in total approximately $10 billion in market value securities or almost 30% of our AFS portfolio and over 50% of the long-dated securities that were yielding less than 2%. Together, these actions added $54 million to 2024 net interest income and will add about another $270 million in 2025 net interest income.

與我們八月份宣布與豐業銀行交易時的預期一致，我們利用了其大約一半的注資完成了兩次證券投資組合的重新定位，分別在第三季度和第四季度。我們總共出售了約 100 億美元的市值證券，占我們 AFS 投資組合的近 30%，以及收益率低於 2% 的長期證券的 50% 以上。這些舉措合計將為 2024 年淨利息收入增加 5,400 萬美元，並將為 2025 年淨利息收入增加約 2.7 億美元。

Revenue trends were impacted by the losses from the securities sales just described. On an adjusted basis, revenue was up 11% sequentially and up 16% year-over-year, with strength in both NII and fees. Expenses of $1.2 billion were up on an operating basis, reflecting the strong fee quarter and some charges we took to enable us to hit the ground running in 2025. I'll go into these in more detail later.

收入趨勢受到剛才描述的證券銷售損失的影響。經調整後，營收季增 11%，年增 16%，NII 和費用均表現強勁。營業費用增加了 12 億美元，反映了本季費用支出強勁以及我們為在 2025 年順利開展業務而收取的一些費用。稍後我將更詳細地討論這些內容。

On an adjusted basis, we achieved roughly 400 basis points of positive operating leverage year-over-year. Credit costs of $39 million included $114 million of net charge-offs offset by a $75 million loan loss reserve release. The release was primarily a function of lower loans and decline in criticized loans and $25 million specifically allocated to charge-offs we took in the quarter. Our CET1 ratio increased to 12% and tangible book value per share increased roughly 17% year-over-year.

經過調整後，我們年比實現了約 400 個基點的正營業槓桿。3,900 萬美元的信貸成本包括 1.14 億美元的淨沖銷額，由 7,500 萬美元的貸款損失準備金釋放所抵銷。此次發放主要由於貸款減少、批評性貸款減少，以及本季專門分配給我們沖銷的 2,500 萬美元。我們的 CET1 比率上升至 12%，每股有形帳面價值年增約 17%。

Turning to slide 5. Full year 2024 EPS was impacted by the securities portfolio repositioning, adjusted for these actions and FDIC special assessment costs, EPS was about $1.16. Net interest income was down about 3.5% or the middle of the target range we provided last January. Scotiabank investment-related benefits added about 150 basis points to growth, offset by an $8 billion decline in loan balances over the course of 2024 and near-term impact from rate cuts late in the year. Our fourth quarter exit rate NII hit the $1 billion-plus target that we had set at the beginning of the year, even after adjusting for Scotiabank impacts.

翻到幻燈片 5。2024 年全年每股收益受到證券投資組合重新定位的影響，根據這些行動和 FDIC 特別評估成本進行調整後，每股收益約為 1.16 美元。淨利息收入下降約 3.5％，處於我們去年 1 月設定的目標範圍的中間。豐業銀行的投資相關收益為經濟成長貢獻了約 150 個基點，但 2024 年貸款餘額減少 80 億美元，以及今年年底降息帶來的近期影響抵消了這一影響。即使在考慮豐業銀行的影響後，我們第四季的退出率 NII 仍然達到了我們在年初設定的 10 億美元以上的目標。

Adjusted fees were up 7% and meaningfully better than the 5% plus guide we provided at the start of the year as Investment Banking had its second best year ever. Commercial Mortgage Servicing, Wealth, and Commercial Payments also posted strong results.

調整後費用上漲 7%，明顯優於我們年初提供的 5% 以上的指導，投資銀行業務創下了有史以來第二好的一年。商業抵押貸款服務、財富和商業支付也取得了強勁的業績。

Expenses were up almost 3% compared to our original guidance of flat to up 2%, primarily due to the strong fee environment and the additional expenses we noted. Credit costs improved, reflecting allowance releases this year versus builds in 2023 and net charge-offs were 41 basis points at the high end of our original range of 30 basis points to 40 basis points, due in part to the lower loan denominator.

與我們最初預期的持平至上漲 2% 相比，費用上漲了近 3%，這主要是由於強勁的費用環境和我們注意到的額外費用。信貸成本有所改善，反映了今年的撥備釋放與 2023 年的增加，淨沖銷為 41 個基點，處於我們最初 30 個基點至 40 個基點範圍的高端，部分原因是貸款分母較低。

Moving to the balance sheet on slide 6. Average loans declined 1.4% sequentially and ended the quarter just north of $104 billion. Decline reflects tepid client demand, active capital markets, our disciplined approach as to what we're willing to put on the balance sheet, and the intentional runoff of low-yielding consumer loans as they pay down and mature.

移至投影片 6 上的資產負債表。平均貸款季減 1.4%，本季末貸款總額略高於 1,040 億美元。下降反映了客戶需求不溫不火、資本市場活躍、我們對願意納入資產負債表的資產採取的嚴謹態度，以及低收益消費貸款在償還和到期時的故意流失。

As we've mentioned before, our business model provides clients with the best execution capabilities, whether it's on or off our balance sheet. This quarter, we raised $54 billion of capital for our clients. And as Chris mentioned, had a very strong quarter of investment banking fees. Only 12% of the capital we raised in the quarter went to our balance sheet.

正如我們之前提到的，我們的商業模式為客戶提供了最佳的執行能力，無論是在我們的資產負債表內還是表外。本季度，我們為客戶籌集了 540 億美元的資金。正如克里斯所提到的，本季的投資銀行費用非常強勁。我們本季籌集的資金中只有 12% 進入了我們的資產負債表。

On slide 7. Average deposits increased 1.3% sequentially to nearly $150 billion reflecting growth across both consumer and commercial deposits. Client deposits were up 4% year-over-year. On a reported basis, noninterest-bearing deposits remained at 19% of total deposits. Similarly, what adjusted for the noninterest-bearing deposits in our hybrid accounts, that percentage remained stable at approximately 23%.

在第 7 張投影片上。平均存款環比增長 1.3%，達到近 1500 億美元，反映了消費者和商業存款的成長。客戶存款年增4%。據報道，無利息存款仍佔總存款的19%。同樣，經過調整我們的混合帳戶中的無利息存款後，該百分比保持穩定在 23% 左右。

Deposit costs declined by 21 basis points with interest-bearing costs decreasing by 25 basis points during the quarter. Deposit betas have been stronger than expected, reaching 40% through the fourth quarter and closer to 45% through the month of December.

本季度，存款成本下降了 21 個基點，利息成本下降了 25 個基點。存款貝塔係數高於預期，第四季達 40%，12 月接近 45%。

Slide 8 provides drivers of net interest income in the NIM this quarter. Taxable equivalent net interest income was up 10% and the net interest margin increased 24 basis points from the prior quarter. While the increase was driven largely by the Scotiabank investment and related securities repositioning, we were able to mitigate near-term impact from Fed rate cuts and lower loans with continued client deposit growth momentum, higher deposit beta, and other funding optimization initiatives. Overall, interest-bearing liabilities declined by 35 basis points this quarter.

幻燈片 8 顯示了本季 NIM 中淨利息收入的驅動因素。應稅等值淨利息收入較上一季增加 10%，淨利差增加 24 個基點。雖然這一成長主要受到豐業銀行投資和相關證券重新定位的推動，但透過持續的客戶存款成長動能、更高的存款貝塔係數和其他融資優化舉措，我們能夠減輕聯準會降息和貸款減少帶來的短期影響。整體來看，本季有息負債下降了 35 個基點。

Turning to slide 9. Reported noninterest income was negative due to securities losses. Adjusting for this, noninterest income was up 18% year-over-year. Investment banking and debt placement fees increased $85 million, up over 60% from the prior year. Indications that M&A fees drove most of the increase, while DCM, ECM, and commercial mortgage activity augur nicely as well. Elsewhere, Commercial Mortgage Servicing fees grew over 40% year-on-year and wealth management fees grew 8%, reflecting strong business momentum in these areas. As of December 31, we serviced over $700 billion of loans in our Commercial Mortgage Servicing business and our Wealth business, assets under management grew to another record level of $61.4 billion.

翻到第 9 張投影片。由於證券損失，報告的非利息收入為負。經此調整後，非利息收入年增 18%。投資銀行和債務融資費用增加了 8,500 萬美元，比去年增加了 60% 以上。有跡象表明，併購費用推動了大部分成長，而 DCM、ECM 和商業抵押貸款活動也預示著良好的前景。其他方面，商業抵押貸款服務費年增超過40％，財富管理費增長8％，反映出這些領域業務勢頭強勁。截至 12 月 31 日，我們的商業抵押貸款服務業務和財富業務服務了超過 7,000 億美元的貸款，管理資產再創歷史新高，達到 614 億美元。

On slide 10, fourth quarter noninterest expenses were $1.2 billion, up 12%, both sequentially and year-over-year, adjusting for selected items in the year ago quarter. Versus the year ago quarter, growth was driven by higher incentive and stock-based compensation, reflecting the strong capital markets activity, a higher level of investment spend this year, and some unusually elevated other expenses this quarter. Sequentially, the increase was driven by higher compensation related to strong fee environment, investment spend, market and employee benefits cost, and some seasonal and miscellaneous other expenses.

在第 10 頁上，第四季的非利息支出為 12 億美元，經去年同期選定項目調整後，季增 12%。與去年同期相比，成長是由更高的激勵和股票薪酬推動的，反映了強勁的資本市場活動、今年更高的投資支出水平以及本季度一些異常高的其他支出。連續成長的原因是，與強勁的費用環境、投資支出、市場和員工福利成本以及一些季節性和其他雜項費用相關的薪資增加。

The bottom right of the page, we provide the primary drivers of the roughly $50 million of unusually elevated expenses in the quarter that Chris referenced earlier. We would not expect those elevated expenses in 2025 and therefore, I would not use the fourth quarter noninterest expense run rate as a guide for the year. I'll cover this in more detail and guidance shortly, but as we've said, we will remain very disciplined on expense management efforts throughout 2025.

在頁面的右下角，我們提供了 Chris 之前提到的本季約 5000 萬美元異常高昂的費用的主要驅動因素。我們預計 2025 年的支出不會增加，因此，我不會使用第四季度的非利息支出運行率作為全年的指導。我很快就會更詳細地介紹這一點並提供指導，但正如我們所說，在 2025 年全年，我們將在費用管理方面保持非常嚴格的紀律。

As shown on slide 11, credit quality is stable to improving. Net charge-offs were $114 million, down 26% sequentially or an annualized 43 basis points on average loans. Nonperforming assets were up a modest 4% sequentially and remained low at 74 basis points of loans. We believe NPAs are peaking and expect them to decline by mid-2025, and assuming no material adverse changes in the macro environment.

如投影片 11 所示，信用品質穩定且不斷改善。淨沖銷金額為 1.14 億美元，較上一季下降 26%，折合成年率平均貸款下降 43 個基點。不良資產環比小幅上漲 4%，仍維持在貸款 74 個基點的低點。我們認為不良資產已經達到峰值，預計到 2025 年中期將會下降，並且假設宏觀環境沒有發生重大不利變化。

Criticized loans declined by 7% in 4Q with broad-based improvements across C&I and commercial real estate. Credit migration across the entire portfolio improved for a fourth consecutive quarter and is back to the levels of two years ago. We expect criticized loans will continue to decline from here as tailwinds from recent rate cuts are not yet reflected in clients' financial statements.

第四季受批評貸款下降了 7%，工商業貸款和商業房地產貸款普遍出現改善。整個投資組合的信貸遷移連續第四個季度得到改善，並回到了兩年前的水平。我們預計，受到批評的貸款將繼續下降，因為近期降息帶來的利多尚未反映在客戶的財務報表中。

Turning to slide 12. Our CET1 ratio reached 12% as of December 31, and our March CET1 ratio, which includes unrealized AFS and pension losses improved to 9.8%, both of which we believe are at or near the top of our peer group. Our tangible common equity ratio also improved to north of 7%.

翻到第 12 張投影片。截至 12 月 31 日，我們的 CET1 比率達到 12%，而包括未實現 AFS 和退休金損失在內的 3 月份 CET1 比率改善至 9.8%，我們認為這兩個比率都達到或接近同業最高水準。我們的有形普通股權益比率也提高至7%以上。

Slide 13 provides our outlook for full year 2025 and relative to 2024, ranges are shown on an operating basis. We expect average loans to be down 2% to 5% with year-end 2025 balances flat to where they ended 2024. Just a reminder that the down 2% to 5% is a measure of full year average loans, not a reduction from the end of 2024. Embedded within this guide, we expect consumer loans to decline by approximately $3 billion over the course of 2025 offset by growth in commercial loans.

投影片 13 提供了我們對 2025 年全年的展望，相對於 2024 年，範圍以營運為基礎顯示。我們預計平均貸款將下降 2% 至 5%，2025 年底餘額將與 2024 年底持平。需要提醒的是，下降 2% 至 5% 是衡量全年平均貸款的指標，而不是從 2024 年底開始的減少。根據本指南，我們預計 2025 年消費貸款將減少約 30 億美元，但商業貸款將成長以抵消這一減少。

Net interest income is expected to be up roughly 20% and for a second straight year to be up north of 10% on a fourth quarter to fourth quarter exit rate basis. We expect NIM to be 2.7% or better by Q4. We expect noninterest income to be up at least 5% with upside of capital markets conditions remain constructive.

預計淨利息收入將成長約 20%，並連續第二年以第四季至第四季的退出率計算成長 10% 以上。我們預計第四季的淨息差將達到 2.7% 或更高。我們預計非利息收入將至少成長 5%，且資本市場狀況仍保持良好。

We expect expenses to be up 3% to 5% of this year's $4.5 billion depending on the fee environment, and we remain committed to achieving fee-based operating leverage this year, meaning on a percentage basis, fee income should grow faster than expenses.

我們預計，根據費用環境，費用將在今年的45 億美元基礎上上漲3% 至5%，我們仍致力於今年實現基於費用的經營槓桿，這意味著按百分比計算，費用收入的增長速度應快於費用。

We expect the full year net charge-off ratio to be in the 40 to 45 basis point range or stable to fourth quarter levels with NPAs and criticized loans improving over the course of the year.

我們預計全年淨核銷率將在 40 至 45 個基點之間，或穩定至第四季度的水平，不良資產和批評性貸款將在年內得到改善。

Finally, we expect the tax rate to be 21% to 22% or 23% to 24% on a taxable equivalent basis, reflecting the expected higher level of earnings and some uptick in state tax rates.

最後，我們預計稅率將達到 21% 至 22% 或 23% 至 24%（以應稅等值計算），這反映了預期的更高收入水準和州稅率的一定程度調。

Finally, on slide 14, we lay out the drivers behind our 20% growth expectations for net interest income in 2025 and 10% plus growth expectations from fourth quarter to fourth quarter. Our assumptions are conservative relative to this past Friday's forward curve and that we have assumed two rate cuts in 2025, one in May and one in December.

最後，在第 14 頁上，我們列出了 2025 年淨利息收入成長 20% 的預期以及第四季至第四季成長 10% 以上的預期背後的驅動因素。相對於上週五的遠期曲線，我們的假設比較保守，我們假設 2025 年將降息兩次，一次在 5 月，一次在 12 月。

You can see over half of the growth comes from the Scotiabank related actions and amortization from swaps we terminated in late 2023, and another good chunk comes from ongoing fixed rate assets and swaps repricing. Given the structural nature of much of this, we have a high degree of confidence it will materialize.

您可以看到，超過一半的成長來自豐業銀行相關行動和我們在 2023 年底終止的掉期攤銷，另一大部分來自正在進行的固定利率資產和掉期重新定價。考慮到其中大部分的結構性質，我們高度相信它將會實現。

Primary swing factors relate to the degree to which we can drive quality, commercial loan growth this year, and continue to manage deposit betas as well as the shape of the yield curve. And if our clients continue to view the capital markets as a better option to fund their growth and bank debt, we're fortunate to have strong debt placement capabilities at Key, and we would monetize these relationships through fees not net interest income this year as we did this past year.

主要的波動因素與我們今年推動優質商業貸款成長的程度以及繼續管理存款貝塔係數以及收益率曲線的形狀有關。如果我們的客戶繼續將資本市場視為為其成長和銀行債務提供資金的更好選擇，那麼我們很幸運在Key 擁有強大的債務配售能力，我們將透過費用而不是淨利息收入將這些關係貨幣化，因為我們去年就這樣做了。

With that, I'll now turn the call back to the operator to provide instructions for the Q&A portion of our call.

說完這些，我現在將電話轉回給接線員，以便為通話中的問答部分提供說明。

(Operator Instructions) John Pancari, Evercore ISI.

（操作員指示） John Pancari，Evercore ISI。

Good morning. Just wanted to get a little more color on the 20% NII outlook, you maintained it despite completing the bank in Novoscotia stake earlier plus the steeper curve. So -- and I appreciate the walk that you gave, but can you give a little bit more color around the rationale in keeping that 20%? I know you alluded to that your assumptions, at least around the Fed could be conservative. Is there any other conservativeness built into this -- and where could there be upside to this expectation as you look out? Thanks.

早安.只是想對 20% NII 的前景有更多的了解，儘管您早些時候完成了對新斯科舍銀行的持股並且曲線更陡峭，但您仍然維持了這一目標。所以——我很感激您的建議，但您能否更詳細地解釋一下保留這 20% 的理由？我知道您暗示過，您的假設，至少圍繞聯準會的假設可能是保守的。這其中是否還有其他保守因素——從您的角度來看，這種預期還可能有哪些好處？謝謝。

Sure. Thanks, John. So let me -- just for the benefit of everybody, maybe go through the walk one more time, just so we're all on the same page, which would be slide 14.

當然。謝謝，約翰。因此，為了讓大家受益，我可能要再重複一遍，以便我們都達成共識，也就是第 14 張投影片。

If you just go kind of bucket by bucket in the waterfall, you have a big chunk that's just the full year incremental pickup from the securities repositioning of Scotiabank investment. Similarly, on the cash flow swaps, we terminated back in October '23, you get the full year increment there as well. And then in the fixed asset repricing and swap bucket, you have the full year incremental impact of the US treasuries that matured last year. You have about $5 billion plus of cash flows, swaps that will mature this year at about 1.8%. We put some other forward starters on that come in later this year throughout the year at about 3.8%. And then you have the reinvestments on cash flows off the investment portfolio, which you referenced will come in potentially at a higher rate. All of that, we feel like it's not fully baked, but it's pretty well understood with some plus or minus in there.

如果您只是按照瀑布圖逐一查看，您會發現很大一部分都是豐業銀行投資證券重新定位所帶來的全年增量。同樣，就現金流互換而言，我們於 23 年 10 月終止了該互換，您也可以獲得全年增量。然後在固定資產重新定價和掉期桶中，您可以獲得去年到期的美國國債的全年增量影響。你有大約 50 多億美元的現金流，掉期將在今年以大約 1.8% 的利率到期。我們在今年稍後將推出一些其他的前鋒球員，他們的表現將達到約 3.8%。然後，您就可以對投資組合中的現金流進行再投資，您提到這可能會以更高的利率產生。所有這些，我們覺得它還沒有完全成熟，但是它已經被很好地理解，並且其中存在一些優點和缺點。

The last two pieces really are the business activity component. So as we mentioned, we'll continue to remix the loan portfolio into quality commercial loans away from consumer fixed rate loans. We'll continue to grow quality customer deposits and manage those betas and deposit costs. And then we've got some ability to optimize other liability costs as we move through the year. And just as a reminder on that, fourth quarter deposit costs in total, down 21 basis points; interest-bearing deposits down 25; and interest-bearing liabilities in total down 35. So we've continued to pull that lever where we can. And then the last piece there is just the full year impact of the size of the balance sheet on average relative to 2024 and the rate associated with rate impacts with that.

最後兩部分其實是業務活動元件。正如我們所提到的，我們將繼續將貸款組合從消費者固定利率貸款轉變為優質商業貸款。我們將繼續增加優質客戶存款，並管理這些測試版和存款成本。然後，隨著時間的流逝，我們有能力優化其他責任成本。需要提醒的是，第四季總存款成本下降了 21 個基點；計息存款下降25%；及有息負債合計減少35%。因此，我們會繼續盡我們所能，發揮這種槓桿的作用。最後一部分是相對於 2024 年而言資產負債表規模對全年的平均影響，以及與此相關的利率影響。

So as we noted, really the factors here are going to be around loan growth and the business activity between loans, loan balances, deposit, and pricing on deposits. As I've said, we've worked really hard to get our balance sheet to a more resilient place here. We believe today, we're fairly neutral on rates, and we can effectively manage through a variety of rate environments.

正如我們所指出的，這裡真正影響的因素是貸款成長以及貸款、貸款餘額、存款和存款定價之間的業務活動。正如我所說，我們一直非常努力地讓我們的資產負債表變得更有彈性。我們認為，今天我們對利率持相當中立的態度，並且能夠有效地管理各種利率環境。

That said, the good question there of why not more than 20. If we go back to September, when we did the first repositioning and through the Q3 call, we have had some things lean to the positive, as you noted, namely fewer cuts or conversely higher reinvestment rates and having closed that second tranche a bit earlier than we planned, meaning we get the second portfolio trade done in '24 and coming into 2025 clean. The counter to that really is starting loan balances. So we're down about $1.5 billion in average loans from Q3. We would have expected that to be close to flat. So that pulls through the full year.

話雖如此，有一個好問題是，為什麼不超過 20 個。如果我們回到9 月份，當時我們進行了第一次重新定位，並透過第三季電話會議，我們發現一些事情傾向於積極方向，正如您所指出的那樣，即降息次數減少，或者相反，再投資利率上升，並且第二筆款項提前結束比我們計劃的要多，這意味著我們將在24年完成第二次投資組合交易，並在2025年實現零虧損。與此相反的實際上是開始貸款餘額。因此，我們的平均貸款額比第三季減少了約 15 億美元。我們原本預計該數字將接近持平。這樣就可以持續全年了。

As I mentioned, though, I think we're in very good shape to manage through a range of rate scenarios, and we're looking to support client loan demand. If we can grow commercial loans as planned, we will be in good shape relative to that 20%, and our NIM should get close to that 2.8% level by year-end. If we see stronger loan demand, and we can obviously support that there could be some upside. But the reality is the industry has been waiting for that loan demand to manifest now for several quarters. And if it doesn't, we'll have other levers to pull to make sure we can hit the 20%.

不過，正如我所提到的，我認為我們能夠很好地應對一系列利率情景，而且我們正在尋求支持客戶的貸款需求。如果我們能夠按計劃增加商業貸款，那麼相對於20%的成長率，我們的狀況將會很好，到年底我們的淨利差應該會接近2.8%的水平。如果我們看到更強勁的貸款需求，我們顯然可以支持這一點，可能會有一些上行空間。但現實情況是，該行業已經等待貸款需求的出現好幾個季度了。如果沒有的話，我們會採取其他措施來確保達到 20% 的目標。

Lastly, the environment right now is still a bit uncertain despite improving client optimism, which I'm sure Chris will touch on. And we've got a new administration take seat here in the last 24 hours that administration appears to be getting to work very quickly. So I think we'll all need a little bit of time to understand the moves and let the market digest them. But I'd say the short story is we're very confident in this guide, and we think we're well situated to take advantage of the market as it evolves.

最後，儘管客戶樂觀情緒有所改善，但當前的環境仍然有點不確定，我相信克里斯會談到這一點。在過去的 24 小時內，新政府就職，並且似乎正在迅速開展工作。因此我認為我們都需要一點時間來理解這些舉措並讓市場消化它們。但我想說，簡而言之，我們對這個指南非常有信心，而且我們認為我們有能力利用市場的發展。

Thanks, Clark. I appreciate the color. I guess, just related to that, maybe you can elaborate a little bit more on your loan growth assumptions. I believe you had indicated it implies about flat on an EOP basis. Correct me if I'm wrong there. But -- and you're not the first to take a more conservative approach in guiding given the uncertain loan demand backdrop. I wanted to see if you can give a little bit more color on what you're seeing in terms of commercial borrowing activity and where the levers are there. Thanks.

謝謝，克拉克。我很欣賞這個顏色。我想，就此而言，也許您可以更詳細地闡述您的貸款成長假設。我相信您已經表明它暗示 EOP 基礎上的持平。如果我錯了請糾正我。但是—鑑於貸款需求的不確定背景，您並不是第一個採取更保守的指導方法的人。我想看看您是否可以更詳細地介紹您所看到的商業借貸活動以及其中的槓桿作用。謝謝。

Yeah. So I'll hit a couple of probably numbers here, and then I'll let Chris provide some kind of qualitative client feedback. So we did see commercial loans stabilize and actually even pick up a bit at the end of the fourth quarter. You're right on an end of period loan kind of flattish through the year. Just remember, underneath that, $3 billion of consumer loan runoff and about a 2% to 4% increase in the commercial loan portfolio. So I think relative to others, that's fairly consistent on the commercial loan side.

是的。因此我會在這裡給出幾個可能的數字，然後讓克里斯提供一些定性的客戶回饋。因此，我們確實看到商業貸款趨於穩定，實際上在第四季末甚至有所回升。您說得對，期末貸款在全年內都比較穩定。請記住，在這之下，消費貸款流失了 30 億美元，商業貸款組合增加了約 2% 至 4%。因此我認為相對於其他人來說，商業貸款方面的情況相當一致。

And again, Chris will touch on this. I'm sure the pipelines continue to be very robust. And it's really just a question of pull through at this point.

克里斯將再次談及這一點。我確信管道將繼續非常堅固。而現在這其實只是一個度過難關的問題。

Sure. Thanks for the question, John. So it's interesting. We're out talking to our clients all the time. Most recently, we did a survey of about 700 of our middle market clients. 80% of them said that they were very confident in their growth prospects. So that's all good.

當然。謝謝你的提問，約翰。所以這很有趣。我們一直在外面與客戶交談。最近，我們對大約 700 家中型市場客戶進行了調查。其中80%表示對自己的成長前景非常有信心。一切都很好。

What we haven't seen yet is people really making investments in property, plant, and equipment. And I think they're on the front edge of that right now, as you know, there's about an 18-month lag when you make investments like that. And I think people wanted to see what the tax policy was going to be which administration was going where, which administration was going to be in power and what their policies were going to be.

我們還沒有看到人們真正對房地產、廠房和設備進行投資。我認為他們現在處於這個領域的前沿，如你所知，進行這樣的投資大約會有 18 個月的延遲。我認為人們想看看哪個政府會採取什麼樣的稅收政策、哪個政府將執政、他們的政策是什麼。

The other thing that I think gives us some opportunity for loan growth as utilization has been, in my mind, artificially flat at about 31%. Our typical utilization would be 35%, 36%. Every percent of utilization is worth about $700 million of outstandings for us.

我認為另一件事為我們帶來了一些貸款成長的機會，因為在我看來，利用率一直人為地穩定在 31% 左右。我們的典型利用率是35%、36%。對我們來說，每百分之一的利用率就意味著約 7 億美元的未償債務。

My personal view is that the economy is actually starting to accelerate a bit. My personal view is also that inflation isn't necessarily under complete control yet. It's also apparent that if we do have tariff policy, there'll be people kind of buying ahead on that from an inventory perspective.

我個人的觀點是，經濟實際上正在開始加速成長。我個人的觀點是通膨還不一定還沒有完全控制。顯然，如果我們確實有關稅政策，從庫存角度來看，人們會提前購買。

I'll give you a couple of other data points. Our M&A backlog right now is about as large as it's ever been, and there's still a whole bunch of capital on the sidelines. So for all those reasons, we think we will see loan growth. You know, John, that here at Key, we've outgrown the H8 data on commercial loans. Every year with the notable exception of '23 where we were actually shrinking our RWAs. So the opportunity isn't there yet, but the fact that we have more clients than ever and we're having more discussion with more clients than ever, I'm confident that when it's there to be had, we'll get it.

我將給你其他一些數據點。我們目前的併購積壓量與以往一樣大，仍有大量資本處於觀望狀態。基於所有這些原因，我們認為貸款將會成長。約翰，你知道，在 Key 這裡，我們的商業貸款 H8 數據已經不夠用了。每年，除了 23 年這個顯著的例外，我們的 RWA 實際上都在縮減。因此，機會尚未出現，但事實上，我們擁有比以往更多的客戶，我們與比以往更多的客戶進行討論，我相信，當機會出現時，我們就會抓住它。

Thanks. Chris. Appreciate the detail.

謝謝。克里斯。欣賞細節。

Ebrahim Poonawala, Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

美銀美林的 Ebrahim Poonawala。

Morning. I just wanted to follow up, Chris. I think regarding this -- as we think about pickup in M&A, we are seeing some large transactions being announced despite whatever the policy uncertainty is still prevailing.

早晨。我只是想跟進一下，克里斯。關於這一點，我認為——當我們考慮併購交易的回升時，儘管政策不確定性仍然存在，但我們看到一些大型交易被宣布。

Given kind of your look at both these businesses and understand them extremely well. Give us any historical correlation where you should think about? Can M&A pick up without a pickup in lending demand customers taking on more leverage understanding that it may or may not come on bank balance sheets go towards capital markets. But I'm just wondering if we get a pickup in M&A when we hear your statement around the pipelines being as strong as they've ever been, should that imply that if M&A picks up loan demand has to pick up?

鑑於您對這兩家公司的了解，我們對它們非常了解。請給我們您應該思考的歷史關聯？在貸款需求沒有回升的情況下，併購能否回升？ 客戶承擔了更多的槓桿，明白這可能會或可能不會出現在銀行資產負債表上，而是走向資本市場。但我只是想知道，當我們聽到您關於管道比以往任何時候都更強勁的聲明時，我們是否會獲得併購的回升，這是否意味著如果併購回升，貸款需求也必須回升？

It does, Ebrahim, to some degree. And obviously, there's a lot of stock for stock deals. No question about that.

易卜拉欣，從某種程度上來說，確實如此。顯然，有很多股票可供交易。毫無疑問。

But keep in mind, what a huge force the private equity market is and how delayed they are actually participating with $1 trillion on the sideline. Yes, there'll be less leverage but there will still be leverage. And so the -- there's no question that a robust M&A market is good for lending because usually, there's large deals and out of those large deals on smaller deals and so it's very good for the lending ecosystem to have a robust M&A environment.

但請記住，私募股權市場的力量是多麼巨大，而他們在投入 1 兆美元的情況下卻遲遲沒有真正參與其中。是的，槓桿作用會減少，但槓桿作用仍會存在。因此，毫無疑問，強勁的併購市場對借貸有利，因為通常情況下，都會有大筆交易，而大筆交易中又包括小筆交易，因此，強勁的併購環境對借貸生態系統非常有利。

Got it. And maybe one for you, Clarke. Sorry if I missed it, if you gave a specific guidance in terms of deposit growth. Give us a sense of what you're doing on the funding side on deposits? Is there still some remix that we should think about? And how should we think about just the average size of the balance sheet in terms of average earning assets relative to what you reported for fourth quarter? Thank you.

知道了。也許有一個適合你，克拉克。如果我錯過了，請見諒，如果您在存款成長方面給出了具體的指導。請向我們介紹一下您在存款融資方面所做的工作？還有一些我們應該考慮的混音嗎？那麼，相對於您報告的第四季情況，我們應該如何看待資產負債表的平均生息資產規模呢？謝謝。

Sure. So we continue to, I think, do a very good job with customers on the deposit side, both balances and pricing. We'd expect as we go through the year for that to be stable to slightly up with continued client deposit growth.

當然。因此，我認為，我們在存款方面，包括餘額和定價，都繼續為客戶做好工作。我們預計，隨著客戶存款持續成長，今年的存款額將保持穩定或略有上升。

So we'll continue to remix out of brokered where it makes sense, which we've been doing, as you know, now for several quarters. Some of that also will depend on where the loan book goes and just the overall size of the balance sheet. So again, continue to feel really good about our primary focus and how that's translating to engagement with clients, balances and again, overall pricing on those deposits.

因此，我們將繼續在有意義的地方重新混合經紀，正如你所知，我們已經這樣做了幾個季度。其中一部分還取決於貸款帳簿的去向以及資產負債表的整體規模。因此，我們再次對我們的主要關注點以及它如何轉化為與客戶的互動、餘額以及這些存款的整體定價感到非常滿意。

Got it. If you don't mind clarifying just average earning assets, how we should think about that trending from here?

知道了。如果您不介意澄清平均收入資產，我們應該如何看待這種趨勢？

I'd expect it to be relatively flat throughout the year.

我預計全年將會相對穩定。

Thanks for taking my questions.

感謝您回答我的問題。

Bill Carcache, Wolfe Research.

比爾‧卡卡什（Bill Carcache），沃爾夫研究公司。

Thank you. Good morning, Chris and Clark. Chris, you've talked in the past about an operating environment where you envision key balance sheeting less risk and focusing more on generating fee income in your role as sort of a credit facilitator for your clients? Is that a fair characterization?

謝謝。早上好，克里斯和克拉克。克里斯，您過去曾經談到過這樣的營運環境：您設想的關鍵資產負債表風險較小，而更專注於作為客戶信貸促進者的角色來獲取費用收入？這是一個公正的描述嗎？

And maybe if you could just update us on how you're thinking about the impact of a more pro-growth administration, just trying to think high level about how to think about the trajectory of your fee income mix over time given the investments that you're making in payments, Wealth Management, Investment Banking, and over time, do those investments sort of affect that sort of, I guess, remixing?

也許你能告訴我們你是如何看待一個更有利於增長的政府的影響的，只是想從高層次上思考一下，考慮到你所做的投資，如何看待你的費用收入組合隨著時間的推移而變化的軌跡。

Sure. Well, first of all, thanks for the question, Bill. We're about 60% net interest income, 40% noninterest income. And I actually like that mix. What I want to make sure we do is grow both sides of that equation. There's no question though that depending on where we are in the cycle, you'll see us leaning in one direction or the other.

當然。嗯，首先，謝謝你的提問，比爾。我們的淨利息收入約為60％，非利息收入約為40％。我確實喜歡這種混合。我想要確保我們做的是讓這個等式的兩邊都得到發展。毫無疑問，根據我們所處的周期位置，你會看到我們傾向於一個方向或另一個方向。

Right now, with all these markets being sort of flashing green and wide open, we can do a better job of serving our good clients by actually raising capital elsewhere. When the markets get a little choppy is where I think you'll see us really serve our clients and our prospects by growing our balance sheet disproportionately.

目前，隨著所有這些市場都呈現綠燈亮起、大門敞開的局面，我們可以透過在其他地方籌集資金，更好地為我們的優質客戶提供服務。當市場出現一些波動時，我想你會看到我們透過不成比例地增加我們的資產負債表來真正服務我們的客戶和潛在客戶。

To the larger part of your question, I think as I travel around and talk to our customers and our clients, I think people are feeling really good about a new administration. I think people think that the regulatory environment is going to improve. Specifically, as it relates to our business, the regulatory environment around M&A.

對於你問題的大部分內容，我想，當我到處走訪並與我們的客戶和客戶交談時，我認為人們對新政府感覺非常好。我認為人們認為監管環境將會改善。具體來說，由於這與我們的業務有關，因此涉及併購的監管環境。

As you know, it's been very challenging to get deals approved, and I'm not speaking of the banking sector. I'm speaking of our M&A business. And I think that will -- I think there'll be a pretty significant unlock there. So I think people are optimistic on the regulatory front that we'll be able to not only do more but do more in a way that's faster.

如你所知，獲得交易批准非常具有挑戰性，我說的並不是銀行業。我講的是我們的併購業務。我認為這將——我認為這將是一個非常重要的解鎖。因此我認為人們對監管方面持樂觀態度，我們不僅能夠做更多的事情，而且能夠以更快的方式做更多的事情。

That's really helpful, Chris. Thank you. And if I may follow up, Clark, on your comments around being able to generate greater fee income growth to the extent your clients continue to take advantage of tight credit spreads and fund themselves via capital markets. Do you think we'll need to see -- I guess, to what extent do you think we'll need to see credit spreads widen before banks broadly and are key more specifically see a notable uptick in loan growth, given as you mentioned, we've been waiting for a long time sort of yet to manifest?

這真的很有幫助，克里斯。謝謝。克拉克，我可以跟進一下您的評論嗎？您認為我們需要看到——我想，您認為我們需要在多大程度上看到銀行信貸利差擴大，更具體地說，關鍵是看到貸款增長顯著上升，正如您所提到的，我們已經等待很久了，但結果卻尚未實現？

Yeah. So look, one, maybe just one clarification there, which I know you know, but I think it's just worth stating. Our goal when we serve clients is to find the best landing spot for them, whether it's our balance sheet or the capital markets. When the capital markets get moving like they were in the fourth quarter, where we only put 12% of that capital we raised on the balance sheet. We'll put them into the capital markets, and we're happy to continue to serve them. I think importantly, and this is why you hear us talk about so much deposits and payments. we continue to get that business even if we're not getting the loan.

是的。所以看，也許只有一個澄清，我知道你知道，但我認為值得說明。我們為客戶提供服務的目標是為他們找到最佳的著陸點，無論是我們的資產負債表還是資本市場。當資本市場像第四季一樣運作時，我們只將籌集的資本的 12％ 放在資產負債表上。我們會把他們推向資本市場，並且很高興繼續為他們服務。我認為這很重要，這就是為什麼你會聽到我們談論這麼多的存款和付款。即使我們沒有獲得貸款，我們仍會繼續經營。

The other thing I would say is, in my time here at Key, which is going on kind of 12, 13 years, the one thing. As Chris noted earlier, that I've seen us do consistently with the noted exception we already raised is to grow quality commercial loans when they're available. So if the bank market is out there, and it's the right thing for clients. I have confidence we will build the loan book. But if in the near term, the capital markets are the most advantageous place for clients, that's what our business model is, and that's what we'll continue to do.

我想說的另一件事是，我在 Key 任職的這 12、13 年裡，有一件事。正如克里斯之前提到的，我看到我們一直在做的事情，除了我們已經提出的例外，就是在有優質商業貸款時增加貸款。所以，如果銀行市場存在，那麼這對客戶來說就是正確的。我有信心，我們將建立貸款帳簿。但如果從短期來看，資本市場對客戶來說最有利，那麼這就是我們的商業模式，我們也會繼續這麼做。

And Bill, the only thing I would add, where banks, I believe, always will have an advantage, whether it's the private capital markets or the public debt markets is banks are a lot more flexible. And when things get choppy and when spreads start to blow out and structures change, that's when I think clients and prospects really go to their banks. And I think that's when we, as an industry, have an opportunity to really serve our customers.

比爾，我唯一想補充的是，我相信銀行總是具有優勢，無論是私人資本市場還是公共債務市場，因為銀行的彈性更高。當情況變得不穩定、利差開始擴大、結構發生變化時，我認為客戶和潛在客戶就會真正湧向銀行。我認為，那時我們作為一個行業才有機會真正服務我們的客戶。

Thanks, Chris and Clark. Very helpful. Appreciate you taking my questions.

謝謝，克里斯和克拉克。非常有幫助。感謝您回答我的問題。

Manan Gosalia, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的馬南‧戈薩利亞 (Manan Gosalia)。

Hi. Good morning. Can you talk about your ability? And can you talk about your ability and willingness to do more securities repositioning here? given that CET1, including AOCI is close to 10%, you're not -- you're going to be accreting more capital from here AOCI impacts are coming down, loan growth is going to be flat. Why not do more on the securities repositioning front?

你好。早安.你能談談你的能力嗎？您能談談您在這裡進行更多證券重新定位的能力和意願嗎？鑑於包括 AOCI 在內的 CET1 接近 10%，您不會——您將從現在開始積累更多的資本，AOCI 的影響正在下降，貸款增長將持平。為什麼不在證券重新定位方面做更多的事情？

It's Chris. So we're constantly looking at what's out there in the marketplace and what we can do around the edges. And we've done a bunch of those things, and we'll probably continue to look at those. But in terms of major securities repositioning, you're not going to see us do something of the order of magnitude that we did either in the third quarter or the fourth quarter.

是克里斯。因此，我們不斷關注市場上的情況以及我們可以做些什麼。我們已經做了很多這樣的事情，我們可能還會繼續關注這些事情。但就主要證券重新定位而言，你不會看到我們採取像第三季或第四季那樣大規模的舉措。

Got it. Is there a CET1 ratio, including AOCI that you're targeting that you don't want to go below?

知道了。您是否希望達到 CET1 比率（包括 AOCI）而​​不低於該比率？

There's not -- not yet. And the reason I say that is, as you know, the capital rules are not finalized. Obviously, we have a lot of capital right now, and we'll be constantly looking at what we think the optimal level of capital is. But we'll come out with new targets after the rules -- the capital rules are finalized.

還沒有—目前還沒有。我這樣說的原因是，如你所知，資本規則尚未最終確定。顯然，我們現在擁有大量資本，並且我們將不斷關注我們認為的最佳資本水準。但在資本規則最終確定後，我們會提出新的目標。

Got it. And maybe if I can just follow up on the securities question. I think you mentioned about 50% of long-dated securities are currently yielding. Well, you've already sold about 30% of long-dated securities yielding less than 2%. Is there a large chunk of that remaining 50% that matures in more than two years from here?

知道了。也許我可以跟進證券問題。我記得您曾提到目前大約有 50% 的長期證券正在產生收益。好吧，您已經售出了約 30% 收益率低於 2% 的長期證券。剩下的 50% 中是否有很大一部分將在兩年多後到期？

Yeah. I don't have the exact percentage in front of me, but there is some component of that, that it's going to still take some time to work through.

是的。我沒有確切的百分比，但其中有一些部分仍需要一些時間來解決。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Matthew O'Connor, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的馬修·奧康納。

Good morning. First, just a quick clarification. Clark, I think I heard you mention the NIM could reach 2.8% in the fourth quarter if loan growth tracks what you're expecting. But I think you [hinting] 2.7 in the deck. Maybe I misheard, but just clarify that. Thanks.

早安.首先，我只是想簡單澄清一下。克拉克，我想我聽到您提到過，如果貸款成長符合您的預期，那麼第四季度的淨利差可能達到 2.8%。但我認為你[暗示] 牌組中有 2.7。也許我聽錯了，但我只是想澄清一下。謝謝。

Yeah. Clarification is, I said I believe I said or intended to say we'll approach the 2.8, which is consistent with the 2.7 plus. I think if we get more loan growth than planned, we have the opportunity, obviously, to get closer.

是的。澄清的是，我說我相信我說過或打算說我們將接近 2.8，這與 2.7 plus 一致。我認為，如果我們的貸款成長超過計劃，我們顯然就有機會更接近目標。

Okay. That's helpful. And then just separately, kind of bigger picture. I know a lot of focus on the capital and the loan growth. But just conceptually, Key went from a bank that didn't have as much capital as you wanted, had the RWA diet, had to pull back on lending and that impacted some of your fee categories. Like how do you get the company kind of more front-footed like, hey, we've got all this capital. We've got more than peers. Let's kind of restart some of these relationships that maybe have been on pause. How do you just mobilize the people internally? How do you communicate that to customers now that you're so strongly positioned in such a competitive environment? Thanks.

好的。這很有幫助。然後分別來看更大的圖景。我知道很多人都關注資本和貸款成長。但從概念上講，Key 銀行的資本不足，需要進行風險加權資產削減，因此必須減少貸款，這對部分費用類別產生了影響。例如，你如何讓公司更具主動性，例如，嘿，我們擁有所有這些資本。我們擁有的不僅僅是同行。讓我們重啟一些可能已經暫停的關係。您如何在內部動員人民？在競爭如此激烈的環境中，您佔據著如此有利的地位，您如何向客戶傳達這一訊息？謝謝。

Sure, Matt. So that process is well underway. As you know, even when we were going through our shrinking of we were investing heavily in the business, investing heavily in front-end people, focusing on what we call our asset-light businesses, which were deposits and payments, our Wealth business, and our Investment Banking business.

當然，馬特。這個過程目前正在順利進行中。如你所知，即使在我們經歷業務萎縮的時候，我們也在大力投資業務，大力投資前端人員，專注於我們所謂的輕資產業務，即存款和支付，我們的財富業務，以及我們的投資銀行業務。

The RWAs that we were able to shed some of them actually was just recategorization. So those didn't impact anyone. And the other RWA that we were able to free up. Actually, were non-relationship clients. So we've been out there for some time, sending the message to the troops. They're out there aggressively in the market. We hired a team in Chicago. We hired a team in Southern California. They're off and running.

我們能夠擺脫的一些 RWA 實際上只是重新分類。所以這些都沒有影響到任何人。還有其他我們能夠釋放的 RWA。實際上，我們是非關係客戶。因此，我們已經在那裡待了一段時間，向部隊傳達訊息。他們積極進軍市場。我們在芝加哥僱用了一個團隊。我們在南加州僱用了一支團隊。他們已經出發並奔跑。

So it's a great question, and it's one I've obviously been very focused on because when you make changes like that, you've got to make sure that you communicate them. And we've spent a ton of time out in the field, making sure our team is engaged and out there doing what we're capable of.

這是一個很好的問題，而且我顯然一直非常關注這個問題，因為當你做出這樣的改變時，你必須確保傳達這些改變。我們在現場花費了大量時間，確保我們的團隊積極參與並盡我們所能。

Okay. And then just when you put that all together, how do you think about your commercial loan growth versus the age eight? Obviously, it could fluctuate quarter-to-quarter. But as you think out over the next four, six, eight quarters? How would you peg your growth to Hakos.

好的。那麼，當你把所有這些放在一起時，你認為與八年前相比，你的商業貸款成長情況如何？顯然，它可能每個季度都會波動。但是您如何看待接下來的四、六、八個季度呢？您如何看待自己的成長與 Hakos 的關係？

Sure. Over the many years, and you know this, Matt, because you've been following us for all these years, we've been -- on commercial loan growth. We've been an outperformer to the HA. I think every single year with the notable exception of 2023, which was specifically a focus on shrinking the RWAs. We expect our team to outperform the HA from a commercial loan perspective, and that's what we talk to them about.

當然。多年來，馬特，你知道這一點，因為這些年來你一直在關注我們，我們一直致力於商業貸款的成長。我們的業績表現一直優於 HA。我認為每年都是如此，除了 2023 年之外，這一年特別著重於縮減 RWA。我們希望我們的團隊從商業貸款的角度比 HA 表現更好，這就是我們與他們談論的內容。

Okay. Thank you very much.

好的。非常感謝。

Mike Mayo, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的麥克·梅奧。

Hi. I think I asked this every call. I mean I get the -- you guys don't care if it's your -- you serve your clients through capital market or through lending, whatever the client wants is what you'll do. And so maybe if NII does a little bit worse and capital markets do better, you're just completely fine with that. Is that a fair statement?

你好。我想我每次打電話都會問這個問題。我的意思是，我明白——你們不在乎這是你們的——你們是透過資本市場還是透過貸款為客戶服務，客戶想要什麼你們就會做什麼。因此，如果 NII 表現稍差一些，而資本市場表現較好，你也許會完全接受這一點。這是一個公正的說法嗎？

Yeah, Mike, you're spot on. I mean, our -- we feel really fortunate that we have a platform that we can serve our clients wherever they can be best served and we feel really strongly that, that's what we do.

是的，麥克，你說得對。我的意思是，我們感到非常幸運，我們擁有一個平台，可以為客戶提供最好的服務，我們堅信這就是我們所做的事情。

So what percent of your middle market client base has access to capital market? And how much do you think that impacts your loan growth?

那麼，你們的中階市場客戶群中有多少比例可以進入資本市場呢？您認為這對您的貸款成長有多大影響？

I don't have that number off the top of my head, but our middle -- I talked about the 700 middle market customers that we surveyed. I can tell you that they are all called on by our capital markets people because they're all in our industry verticals the number of middle market companies that actually access the capital markets is probably a number that's closer in any given year, it's probably closer to 20% to 25%.

我沒有立即記下這個數字，但我們的中間——我談到了我們調查的 700 個中型市場客戶。我可以告訴你，他們都是被我們的資本市場人員要求的，因為他們都屬於我們的垂直行業，實際上進入資本市場的中型市場公司的數量可能在任何一年中都是一個接近的數字，可能更接近至 20% 至 25%。

Okay. And if you only had one rate cut instead of two, your guide for up 20% in NII would go to what roughly?

好的。如果只降息一次而不是兩次，那麼 NII 上漲 20% 的預期大致是多少？

Yes, it's not going to move a ton, Mike, because that second cup was in December. So that's not going to carry a huge impact to the full year.

是的，它不會產生太大影響，麥克，因為第二杯是在 12 月。所以這不會對全年產生巨大影響。

And Clark, just correct me if I'm wrong, I think on this call, you said about 20% higher for 2025 for NII, and I think your guide was 20% with the plus time. Did I see that wrong? And it just -- and I know there's a lot of attention on one line item and the one-line item might be a little bit weaker in investment banking might be a lot stronger, but just to clarify that.

克拉克，如果我錯了，請糾正我，我認為在這次電話會議上，您說到 2025 年 NII 將上漲約 20%，而我認為您的指導價格是加上 20% 的附加費。我是不是看錯了？而且我知道，人們對一項業務給予了極大的關注，而這項業務在投資銀行業務中可能會弱一些，在銀行業務中也可能會強很多，我只是想澄清一下。

Yes. So lots of confidence in 20% above full year '24. But plus, I think maybe Mike you might be confusing came in, we think 10% plus fourth quarter to fourth quarter. So we'd expect 2025 Q4 NII to be in excess of 10% higher than 2024 4th quarter.

是的。因此，我們對 24 年全年成長率達到 20% 充滿信心。但另外，我想也許麥克你可能會混淆，我們認為第四季到第四季的成長幅度為 10% 以上。因此，我們預計 2025 年第四季的 NII 將比 2024 年第四季高出 10% 以上。

Great. And then separately, Chris, the Board December 30 of the Compensation Committee, granted a special performance award to the named executive officers to increase stock ownership, help retention and help you drive value from Scotiabank.

偉大的。然後，另外，董事會薪酬委員會 12 月 30 日向指定高階主管授予了特別績效獎，以增加股權，幫助保留並幫助您從豐業銀行帶來價值。

And I'm just wondering with the Board besides this, consider to be valuable. I mean you're the third bank in a series of a few months along with Goldman Sachs, just last week or so and then Truist a few months ago, doing the -- what I call the double bonus, maybe that there's another name for that. I just wonder why -- what is this competition? What does the Board see in terms of competition and the need for Key to retain the talent? What's happening there?

我只是想知道，除此之外，董事會還認為哪些是有價值的。我的意思是，你們是幾個月來第三家這樣做的銀行，緊隨其後的是高盛，就在上週左右，然後是幾個月前的Truist，我稱之為雙倍獎金，也許這是另一個名字那。我只是想知道為什麼——這是一場什麼樣的比賽？董事會對競爭以及 Key 留住人才的必要性有何看法？那裡發生什麼事了？

So first of all, just to state the obvious, obviously, I have zero impact on any of my compensation. That's exclusively handled by our C&O committee made up of independent directors in consultation with the rest of the independent directors. So I would refer you to the 8-K, but that was mentioned in the 8-K, which I think is important is this notion of retention, and you touched on it.

首先，很明顯的是，這對我的任何薪水都沒有任何影響。該事宜由我們的 C&O 委員會在與其他獨立董事協商後專門處理。因此，我建議您參考 8-K，但 8-K 中提到了這一點，我認為重要的是保留的概念，您也提到了這一點。

And I think the Board recognizes that we Key have worked really hard to put ourselves in a position where we've got a great runway in front of us, '25, '26 we talked about it throughout this call. And I think the Board wanted to make sure that the team was on the field, so to speak.

我認為董事會認識到我們 Key 已經非常努力地為自己爭取到了一個很好的發展機會，'25、'26 我們在整個電話會議中都討論了這一點。我認為董事會想確保球隊能夠上場，可以這麼說。

Having said that, as you know, our proxy will come out in the not-too-distant future. And I'd be happy to have our team walk you through it when it comes out. Thanks for the question.

話雖如此，如您所知，我們的代理將在不久的將來問世。當它發佈時，我很樂意讓我們的團隊為您講解。謝謝你的提問。

That'd be great. Thank you.

那太棒了。謝謝。

Erika Najarian, UBS.

瑞銀的埃里卡·納賈里安（Erika Najarian）。

Thank you. First question is just a clarification question. What Clark deposit beta are you assuming in that up 20% NII guide?

謝謝。第一個問題只是一個澄清問題。在 NII 指南上漲 20% 的過程中，您假設的 Clark 存款貝塔係數是多少？

Yeah. So -- Erika, nice to hear from you. We finished the year fourth quarter, 40% beta, got closer to 45% at the end of the quarter, and we would expect to see mid-40s to high 40s throughout the year. So approaching a 50 data as we go through the year.

是的。所以——Erika，很高興收到你的來信。我們在今年第四季結束時，beta 值為 40%，季末接近 45%，我們預計全年 beta 值將達到 45% 左右。因此，隨著時間的流逝，我們的數據將接近 50。

Got it. And the next question is for Chris. And I guess I'm just going to take a step back. I feel like now you have a 12% CET1, maybe I feel like the questions are a little misdirected. I feel like a larger company won't give you capital just for you guys to fix balance sheet decisions that were made in the past by a previous management team and buy back stock, right? And so the environment is what it is, and the consumer book is doing what it's doing.

知道了。下一個問題是問克里斯的。我想我只是要退一步而已。我覺得現在你的 CET1 是 12%，也許我覺得問題有點誤導。我覺得大公司不會給你們資金只是為了讓你們修復前管理團隊所做的資產負債表決策並回購股票，對嗎？環境就是這樣，消費者書籍也在做它正在做的事情。

But I guess I'm just wondering, is there an appetite for more aggressively adding talent. I think in your prepared remarks, you talked about adding wealth managers. But given that you have all this capital and given that there's so much on your balance sheet, that's a natural cure to your net interest income, I'm wondering if there's an appetite, again, I'm not going to ask you the deal question, but if there's an appetite to be more aggressive at adding commercial bankers and using this capital for really like forward thinking on growth?

但我想我只是想知道，是否有興趣更積極地引進人才。我想您在準備好的演講中談到了增加財富經理。但考慮到你擁有這麼多資本，而且你的資產負債表上有這麼多錢，這對你的淨利息收入來說是一個自然的解決方案，我想知道你是否有胃口，再說一次，我不會問你這筆交易問題是，是否有意更積極地增加商業銀行家並利用這些資本真正實現前瞻性的成長？

Sure. Well, first of all, thank you for the question. And I'm really proud of the fact that we invested all the way through sort of the turbulence of '22 and '23. But we are going to absolutely, Erika, continue to invest. I mentioned in my opening remarks, we had hired many, many wealth advisers during that period of time. We're going to continue to grow that business. That's one of our businesses.

當然。嗯，首先感謝您的提問。我對我們在整個 22 年和 23 年的動盪時期都進行了投資感到非常自豪。但艾麗卡，我們絕對會繼續投資。我在開場白中提到，我們在那段時間聘請了許多財富顧問。我們將繼續發展該業務。這是我們的業務之一。

I also mentioned we're going to grow our investment banking platform by 10%. We also have invested heavily in our technology platform. I mentioned the migration to the cloud, we basically -- every year, we've replaced two core systems to the point now where we only have a couple.

我還提到，我們將把我們的投資銀行平台擴大 10%。我們也對我們的技術平台投入了大量資金。我提到了向雲端的遷移，基本上，我們每年都會更換兩個核心系統，到現在我們只剩下幾個了。

So yes, we will continue to invest in the business. We'll continue to hire groups of people. We'll also continue to look at what I call bolt-on acquisitions. When you're basically set up by industry vertical, it gives you opportunities to really focus on adjacencies to those verticals, and you'll see us work on that as well. Does that answer your question?

所以是的，我們將繼續投資該業務。我們將繼續招募人才。我們也將繼續關注我所說的附加收購。當您基本上按垂直行業進行設定時，您將有機會真正專注於與這些垂直行業相鄰的領域，並且您會看到我們也會在此方面開展工作。這回答了你的問題嗎？

It does. Thank you so much.

是的。太感謝了。

Brian Foran, Truist.

布萊恩·福蘭，Truist。

Hey. Just a quick one, a couple of quick ones. When you kind of talked about 2.7%, maybe even 2.8% on NIM, can you just remind us where you see that in terms of a longer-term normalized range? Is that at the bottom of the range? Or I think in the past, you've talked about up to 3% or I forget the exact wording, but as we think about '26 and '27, what we do deem as a kind of normalized NIM range?

嘿。只要快速問一個，快速問幾個。當您談到 NIM 為 2.7% 甚至 2.8% 時，您能否提醒我們一下，從長期標準化範圍來看，您認為這個數字在什麼位置？這是在範圍的底部嗎？或者我認為在過去，您曾談論過高達 3% 或者我忘記了確切的措辭，但是當我們考慮 '26 和 '27 時，我們確實認為這是一種標準化的 NIM 範圍？

Yes. Good question. Look, I think as we get into '26 and beyond, there's no reason why we wouldn't be at 3% or maybe even better as the balance sheet continues to turn over a little bit.

是的。好問題。看，我認為隨著我們進入26年及以後，隨著資產負債表繼續小幅上漲，我們沒有理由不會達到3%甚至更好的水平。

3% or better even in '26?

甚至在 26 年也能達到 3% 或更高？

Yeah, I think we -- yes, we should get to something 3% or better at some time in '26. I'm not sure exactly when during that time. But obviously, it depends on where the market goes, shape of the yield curve and other macro factors. But all other things equal, I think as we progress through '25 and get into '26, we should see hitting 3% NIM at some point in that time frame.

是的，我認為我們應該在 26 年的某個時候達到 3% 或更高的水平。我不太清楚那段時間的具體時間。但顯然，這取決於市場走向、殖利率曲線的形狀和其他宏觀因素。但在其他條件相同的情況下，我認為隨著我們度過'25年並進入'26年，我們應該會看到在那個時間範圍內的某個時間點達到 3% 的 NIM。

Okay. And then just as we model out loan growth, is the runoff of consumer over in '25? Or should we think about some more in '26 and beyond?

好的。那麼，正如我們模擬貸款成長一樣，消費者的流失在 25 年是否已經結束？或者我們應該在26年及以後考慮更多？

Yeah. I mean, look, the vast portion of that consumer book is first lien mortgage. There's some student lending in there. It's all rate sensitive. So as rates come down, you can see that refinance. At that point, we'll continue to support clients in refinancing them. But you'd continue to see that, I think, come off structurally in the near term.

是的。我的意思是，你看，消費者帳簿的絕大部分是第一留置權抵押貸款。其中有一些學生貸款。一切都對利率敏感。因此隨著利率下降，你就可以看到再融資。屆時，我們將繼續支持客戶進行再融資。但我認為，短期內你將繼續看到這種結構性現象。

Now I do think over time, consumer lending is an important element to the balance sheet. We're not at the moment leaning into that, but I would expect that we will do so over time, whether it's other products like personal lending or things like that. But we're continuing to focus on relationship lending particularly in that space. There's just not a lot of that happening at the moment.

現在我確實認為，隨著時間的推移，消費貸款將成為資產負債表的重要組成部分。我們目前還沒有傾向於此，但我希望隨著時間的推移，我們會這樣做，無論是個人貸款等其他產品還是類似的東西。但我們將繼續專注於關係型貸款，特別是該領域的貸款。目前這樣的情況還不多見。

Okay. Thank you so much.

好的。太感謝了。

Gerard Cassidy, RBC.

加拿大皇家銀行的傑拉德卡西迪 (Gerard Cassidy)。

Hi. Good morning, everyone. This is Thomas Leddy standing in for Gerard. Can you have a reserve release in '24 and 2025 guidance for NCOs just 40 to 45 bps or relatively flat from current levels. With this in mind, should we expect to see further releasing in 2025?

你好。大家早安。這是代替杰拉德的托馬斯·萊迪。你能否在 2024 年和 2025 年為 NCO 提供儲備釋放指導，僅為 40 到 45 個基點或與當前水平相對持平。考慮到這一點，我們是否應該期待在 2025 年看到更多發布？

Hey, Tom. This is Clark. Yes. Look, I think we expect this to be the peak on some of the credit metrics we'd expect, again, given a constructive macro economy to see improvement throughout the year. I don't think I'd expect to see massive reserve releases. But I think as we go through the year, you could certainly see kind of plus or minus some things based on, again, how the portfolio shakes out. But everything we're looking at now makes us feel like the book is stable to improving throughout '25.

嘿，湯姆。這是克拉克。是的。看起來，我認為我們預計這將是我們預期的一些信貸指標的峰值，同樣，鑑於建設性的宏觀經濟將全年改善。我認為我不會看到大規模的儲備釋放。但我認為，隨著時間的流逝，您肯定會看到某些東西的增減，這再次取決於投資組合的走勢。但我們現在看到的一切都讓我們感覺到，這本書在 25 年內會保持穩定並不斷進步。

Okay. That's helpful. And then just quickly on C&I loans. It looks like period end loans ended this quarter a little bit higher than last. Can you give us some color on what you're seeing in the C&I book?

好的。這很有幫助。然後我們快速討論一下 C&I 貸款。看起來本季的期末貸款比上一季略高。您能為我們講講您在 C&I 書中看到的內容嗎？

Yes. As I said, we did see a little bit stabilization and a slight pickup through the end of the year. I mean, the tough part, Thomas, is we are seeing great pipelines. We are having great conversations with clients. That has been true now for a couple of quarters. So we just need to see that activity hit.

是的。正如我所說，我們確實看到了一點穩定，並且在年底略有回升。我的意思是，托馬斯，困難的部分是我們看到偉大的管道。我們正在與客戶進行愉快的交談。這種情況已經持續了好幾個季度了。因此我們只需要看到該活動受到影響。

And as Chris mentioned, we continue to see things like utilization sort of sit at relatively historic low levels. So everything we're hearing and seeing would tell us to expect it to grow, but until it really starts to happen consistently, it's hard to call.

正如克里斯所提到的，我們繼續看到利用率處於相對歷史較低的水平。因此，我們所聽到和看到的一切都告訴我們它會成長，但直到它真正開始持續發生之前，很難預測。

Understood. Okay. Thank you. That's helpful. And thank you for taking my questions.

明白了。好的。謝謝。這很有幫助。感謝您回答我的問題。

Those are all the questions we have for today. So I'll turn the call back to CEO, Chris Gorman, for closing remarks.

這些就是我們今天要問的所有問題。因此，我將把電話轉回給執行長克里斯‧戈爾曼 (Chris Gorman)，請他作最後發言。

Well, thank you, Emily, and thank you all for participating in our conference call. If anyone has any follow-up questions, please feel free to reach out to our IR team. Thank you so much. Have a good day all. Goodbye.

好吧，謝謝你，艾米麗，也謝謝大家參加我們的電話會議。如果有人有任何後續問題，請隨時聯繫我們的 IR 團隊。太感謝了。祝大家有美好的一天。再見。

Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. This concludes our call, and you may now disconnect your lines.

感謝大家今天的參與。我們的通話到此結束，您可以掛斷電話了。