滙豐控股 (HSBC) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

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The external environment. We entered this period of uncertainty from a position of strength. In this complex environment, customers are looking for a trusted financial partner. Our differentiated strength are clear.

外部環境。我們進入這段充滿不確定性的時期時，處於優勢地位。在當前複雜的市場環境下，客戶正在尋找值得信賴的財務合作夥伴。我們的差異化優勢顯而易見。

First, our hallmark financial strength underpinned by a strong balance sheet and high-quality credit portfolio has helped us deepen our customer relationships and grow deposits by $83 billion from the same period last year. This is after adding back balances held for sale. Our $1.7 trillion deposit base drives the lion's share of our banking NII. Despite HIBOR headwinds, other tailwinds have allowed us to reiterate our full year banking NII guidance of around $42 billion. In Hong Kong Commercial real estate, while some short-term challenges remain, we are confident in the overall credit quality of the book.

首先，我們強大的財務實力，以穩健的資產負債表和高品質的信貸組合為支撐，幫助我們加深了與客戶的關係，存款額比去年同期增長了 830 億美元。這是在加上待售餘額之後的結果。我們1.7兆美元的存款基礎為我們銀行業淨利息收入貢獻了絕大部分。儘管HIBOR利率存在不利因素，但其他利多因素使我們能夠重申全年銀行業淨利息收入預期約為420億美元。香港商業不動產雖然仍面臨一些短期挑戰，但我們對整體信貸品質充滿信心。

Second, our long-standing experience of facilitating financial flows globally, and our international network, especially across the world's fastest-growing trade and investment routes. We delivered 5% growth in wholesale transaction banking fee and other income in the second quarter. Our trade fees and other income grew by 4%, reflecting our leading position across fast-growing intra-regional trade corridors as well as our continued investments in services trade sector. We have 5,000 trade specialists in more than 50 markets operating on both sides of trade flows. They bring significant expertise and real-time insight to our customers.

其次，我們擁有促進全球金融流動的長期經驗，以及我們的國際網絡，尤其是在全球成長最快的貿易和投資路線上。第二季度，我們的批發交易銀行手續費和其他收入成長了 5%。我們的貿易費和其他收入成長了 4%，這反映了我們在快速成長的區域內貿易走廊的領先地位，以及我們對服務貿易領域的持續投資。我們在 50 多個市場擁有 5000 名貿易專家，在貿易流的兩端開展業務。他們為我們的客戶帶來了豐富的專業知識和即時洞察力。

And third, we are seeing continued momentum in our Wealth business. We are ideally placed to capture the increasing number of affluent and high net worth customers in the fastest-growing wealth markets in Asia and the Middle East, where we are investing at scale.

第三，我們的財富管理業務正維持持續成長動能。我們佔據了得天獨厚的優勢，能夠抓住亞洲和中東這兩個財富成長最快的市場中日益增多的富裕和高淨值客戶的需求，我們正在這些地區進行大規模投資。

Turning next to the progress we are making against our organizational simplification targets. As set out in February, this initiative is meant to make the group simple and more agile. Cost efficiency is one of the benefits. We are on track to deliver the circa $1.5 billion of simplification saves by the end of 2026. To remind you, these are primarily through the deduplication of roles and will have no meaningful impact on revenue.

接下來，我們來看看在實現組織簡化目標方面的進展。正如二月制定的計劃，這項舉措旨在簡化團隊結構，提高團隊靈活性。成本效益是其優點之一。我們預計在 2026 年底前實現約 15 億美元的簡化節省目標。再次提醒您，這些主要是透過角色去重來實現的，不會對收入產生實質影響。

The sales will be taken straight to the bottom line, $0.4 billion of which will be in the P&L in 2025 revised upwards from $0.3 billion. And the full $1.5 billion will be fully realized in 2027. Pam will go into more details.

銷售額將直接計入利潤，其中 0.4 億美元將在 2025 年計入損益表，較 0.3 億美元向上修正。全部 15 億美元將於 2027 年全部實現。Pam會詳細介紹。

Turning to the progress we're making in our exit of nonstrategic activities. We are progressing at pace. We have rigorously reviewed our portfolio against our strategic priorities. Since the first quarter results, we have announced the sale of our business in Uruguay, UK life insurance subsidiary, German custody business and German fund administration business, our stake in Grupo Galicia and our French portfolio of home and other loans retained following the disposal of our retail operations in France.

接下來談談我們在退出非策略性活動的進展。我們正在快速推進。我們已根據策略重點對投資組合進行了嚴格審查。自第一季業績公佈以來，我們已宣佈出售我們在烏拉圭的業務、英國人壽保險子公司、德國託管業務和德國基金管理業務、我們在 Grupo Galicia 的股份以及在出售我們在法國的零售業務後保留的法國住房貸款和其他貸款組合。

While Asia is at the heart of our growth strategy, we want to provide clarity on our footprint in Asia. Earlier this year, we commenced a targeted strategic review of our detailed business in four markets in Asia. Three of these reviews, Australia, Indonesia and Sri Lanka are ongoing, no decisions have been made yet. The fourth in Bangladesh has completed and we will start to wind down the retail business there in the second half of this year. To be clear, our CIB business, our Corporate & Situation banking business is unaffected by these reviews, and all four markets remain critical to our international network for CIB customers.

雖然亞洲是我們成長策略的核心，但我們希望明確說明我們在亞洲的業務佈局。今年早些時候，我們開始對我們在亞洲四個市場的詳細業務進行有針對性的策略審查。這三項審查（澳洲、印尼和斯里蘭卡）仍在進行中，尚未做出任何決定。在孟加拉的第四家門市已經完工，我們將在今年下半年開始逐步結束在那裡的零售業務。需要明確的是，我們的企業及投資銀行業務、公司及情境銀行業務不受這些審查的影響，而且這四個市場對於我們面向企業及投資銀行客戶的國際網絡仍然至關重要。

Costs released from the exits of our nonstrategic activities will be invested in our priority growth areas. These are areas where we have clear competitive advantage and can generate accretive returns.

我們將把從非策略性業務退出中節省下來的成本投資到我們的優先成長領域。在這些領域，我們擁有明顯的競爭優勢，並且能夠產生增值收益。

Let's turn to them now. We are investing with intent. In our home markets, we said we would expand the number of wealth centers and enhance our wealth capabilities. In Hong Kong, which is set to become the world's leading cross-border wealth hub we have opened one new state-of-the-art wealth center with two more opening in the coming months. In the UK, we have opened our first wealth center in London and reduced the threshold for wealth investments.

現在讓我們來看看他們。我們是有目的地進行投資。在本土市場，我們曾表示將擴大財富中心的數量，並提升財富管理能力。香港將成為世界領先的跨境財富中心，我們在香港開設了一家最先進的財富中心，未來幾個月還將開設兩家。在英國，我們在倫敦開設了第一個財富中心，並降低了財富投資的門檻。

We have also relaunched our premier wealth brand targeting mass affluent customers. In the UK also, our improved coverage model for SME banking is bringing our relationship managers closer to customers. This is reflected in our Trustpilot score, which has improved to a four-store ranking. In CIB, we launched HSBC Trade pay for import duties, a targeted financing solution for our US customers, which simplifies the payment of import duties whilst helping them optimize working capital. We have also launched HSBC tokenized deposit services in Hong Kong and Singapore with the UK and Luxembourg expected to launch in September and the US. UAE and other markets in 2026. This next-generation programmable cross-border payments move money in real time, always on, way across our network.

我們也重新推出了大眾富裕客戶的高端財富品牌。在英國，我們改進的中小企業銀行服務覆蓋模式也讓我們的客戶經理與客戶更加緊密地聯繫在一起。這體現在我們的 Trustpilot 評分上，該評分已提升至四星級。在企業及投資銀行部，我們推出了匯豐貿易支付進口關稅服務，這是一項針對美國客戶的有針對性的融資解決方案，它簡化了進口關稅的支付流程，同時幫助他們優化營運資金。我們已在香港和新加坡推出了匯豐代幣化存款服務，預計將於 9 月在英國和盧森堡推出，隨後將在美國推出。2026年進入阿聯酋及其他市場。這種新一代可程式跨境支付方式能夠即時且持續地在我們的網路中轉移資金。

There is a step towards our ambition of delivering global instant cross-border payments. We have also enhanced our payment tracking solution, which now provides a global view of payment status improving our client experience.

這是朝著實現全球即時跨國支付目標邁出的一步。我們還改進了支付追蹤解決方案，現在可以提供全球支付狀態視圖，從而改善客戶體驗。

In IWPB, we have opened 13 dedicated wealth centers including in Mainland China, Singapore and Malaysia. We have also refreshed our premier banking proposition, which we launched in the UAE, India, Malaysia and the US in the second half of this year. In the UAE, which is home to more than 200 nationalities, we have simplified our onboarding process for certain customers to open a bank account before they relocate into the UAE. Each of these will drive customer acquisition deepen wealth penetration, grow our share of mandates and enable us to capture greater share of corridor flows.

在IWPB，我們已開設了13個專屬財富中心，包括中國大陸、新加坡和馬來西亞。我們也更新了我們的高端銀行服務方案，該方案於今年下半年在阿聯酋、印度、馬來西亞和美國推出。在擁有 200 多個國籍的阿聯酋，我們簡化了某些客戶的開戶流程，以便他們在移居阿聯酋之前開設銀行帳戶。這些舉措將推動客戶獲取，加深財富滲透，提高我們的委託份額，並使我們能夠獲得更大的走廊流量份額。

Finally, we are modernizing the bank through AI, gene and automation. We are improving our technology productivity with coding assistance. Today, more than 20,000 engineers are 15% more efficient in coding because of our new tools. Gen AI is being used across five CIB markets to bring process efficiency to our credit analysis write-offs. We're also focused on improving customer service through AI-supported mobile apps and strengthened contact center capabilities.

最後，我們正在透過人工智慧、基因技術和自動化實現銀行的現代化。我們正在透過編程協助來提高技術生產力。如今，由於我們新工具的運用，超過 2 萬名工程師的編碼效率提高了 15%。Gen AI 已在五個 CIB 市場中得到應用，以提高我們信貸分析核銷流程的效率。我們也致力於透過人工智慧支援的行動應用程式和加強呼叫中心能力來改善客戶服務。

The key message is we have continued ramping up investments in these areas. Further momentum will build as our exits complete releasing investment capacity to redeploy into our priority growth areas in line with our disciplined cost and capital allocation framework.

關鍵訊息是，我們一直在加大對這些領域的投資。隨著我們退出專案的完成，我們將釋放投資能力，按照我們嚴格的成本和資本配置框架，將投資能力重新部署到我們的優先成長領域，進一步增強成長動能。

In summary, we enter this uncertain macroeconomic environment from a position of distinctive strength, underpinned by our hallmark financial strength, our global connectivity and our expertise. We remain well positioned to support our customers as their trusted financial partner. We have strong momentum in our business and are well positioned for growth. We're investing for growth, and we are delivering growth. And we are executing our strategy with discipline and at pace.

總之，我們憑藉自身獨特的優勢進入當前充滿不確定性的宏觀經濟環境，這得益於我們一貫的雄厚財力、全球互聯互通以及專業知識。我們依然處於有利地位，能夠作為客戶值得信賴的金融合作夥伴為他們提供支援。我們的業務發展勢頭強勁，並已做好充分準備迎接成長。我們投資是為了成長，而且我們正在實現成長。我們正在以嚴謹的態度和高效的速度執行我們的策略。

The positive progress we're making gives us confidence in our ability to deliver our targets. We reaffirm our mid-teens return on tangible equity guidance, excluding notable items for each of 2025, '26 and '27.

我們所取得的積極進展使我們對實現目標的能力充滿信心。我們重申對 2025 年、2026 年和 2027 年有形權益回報率的預期，該預期不包含重大項目，預期為 15% 左右。

Let me now hand over to Pam. Thank you.

現在我把麥克風交給帕姆。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you, George. Thank you, everyone, for joining. At full year, I said we would focus on three things: discipline in the way we prioritize and maintain strong cost control while ensuring investment rigor for growth. Performance in the way we gear our financial strategy, towards achieving our mid-teens returns target, delivery in the way we enhance operating leverage and support our customers. The second quarter numbers show discipline performance and delivery across the bank.

謝謝你，喬治。謝謝大家的參與。到全年時，我說我們將專注於三件事：嚴格把控成本，保持嚴格的成本控制，同時確保投資的穩健性以實現成長。業績體現在我們調整財務策略以實現兩位數中段回報目標的方式上，以及我們提高營運槓桿和支援客戶的方式。第二季的數據表明，全行在紀律性、業績和交付方面均表現出色。

Let's turn to the details. First, the income statement I'll be excluding notable items of $2.8 billion this quarter from my performance commentary. Of the $2.8 billion in are related to Bank of Communications. $1.1 billion of this results from its share issuance, which diluted our interest to 16%. It is booked in other operating income as flagged in the first quarter.

讓我們來看看細節。首先，關於損益表，我將從本季的業績評論中排除 28 億美元的重大項目。這28億美元中，有11億美元與交通銀行有關。這11億美元是由於交通銀行發行新股造成的，導致我們持股比例稀釋至16%。如第一季所述，該款項已計入其他營業收入。

The balance, a $1 billion impairment is booked in associates. A separate $0.7 billion relates to restructuring and other charges, which are in the cost line.

剩餘部分，即10億美元的減損損失，計入聯營公司帳目。另有 0.7 億美元與重組和其他費用有關，這些費用計入成本項。

Slide 22 sets these figures out. Annualized return on tangible equity, ROTE, was 17.7% in the second quarter. Revenue grew 5% year-on-year to $17.7 billion. This was driven by fee and other income. Profit before tax was $9.2 billion stable year-on-year.

第 22 張投影片列出了這些數據。第二季有形權益年化報酬率（ROTE）為 17.7%。營收年增 5%，達到 177 億美元。這主要是由手續費和其他收入所驅動的。稅前利潤為92億美元，與前一年持平。

We have revised our full year ECL guidance to around 40 basis points from 30 to 40 basis points. The increase in the second quarter ECL partly relates to Hong Kong Commercial Real Estate, which I will discuss further. We remain on track to achieve our target of around 3% cost growth in 2025 compared to 2024 on a target basis.

我們將全年預期信用損失 (ECL) 指引從 30 至 40 個基點調整至約 40 個基點。第二季預期信用損失增加部分與香港商業房地產有關，我將進一步討論這一點。我們仍有望實現2025年成本成長比2024年成長約3%的目標。

Looking at capital and distributions. Our CET1 capital ratio was 14.6%. We have announced a second interim dividend of $0.10 per share alongside a new share buyback of up to $3 billion. We have now reduced our share count by 13% since the first quarter of 2023. As always, a decision on future share buybacks will be made on a quarterly basis and depends on organic capital generation and the capital needs of the business.

考察資本和分配情況。我們的CET1資本適足率為14.6%。我們宣布派發第二次中期股息，每股0.10美元，同時也將進行高達30億美元的新股票回購計畫。自 2023 年第一季以來，我們的股份數量已減少了 13%。與以往一樣，未來股票回購的決定將按季度做出，並取決於內生資本的產生和企業的資本需求。

The 50% dividend payout is at the top of our capital use hierarchy.

50% 的股利支付是我們資本使用層級的首要選擇。

Then we look to grow the business where we see significant opportunities over time. We then absorb other capital demands that emerge, the buyback is the flexible residual means of capital distribution.

然後，我們會尋找那些隨著時間推移具有重大發展機會的領域來拓展業務。然後，我們吸收其他出現的資本需求，回購是彈性的剩餘資本分配手段。

Let's now turn to our business segment performance. Our four businesses performed strongly with revenue growing in each. Each one is making mid-teens rot or better. In Hong Kong, we attracted a further 30,000 new-to-bank customers in the second quarter, representing 600,000 for the first half. We also grew deposits by 9% over the last 12 months on a constant currency basis.

現在我們來看看各個業務部門的業績表現。我們的四項業務表現強勁，各自營收均實現成長。每一種都讓十幾歲的孩子變得糟糕，甚至更糟。在香港，我們第二季新增了 3 萬名銀行新客戶，上半年累計新增客戶達 60 萬名。過去 12 個月，我們的存款以固定匯率計算也成長了 9%。

In our UK business, our loan book grew by 4% year-on-year on the same basis with mortgages and commercial lending standing out. Since we relaunched our UK Premier proposition earlier this year, we have seen. Our average weekly customer acquisition more than doubled in IWPB, Fee and other income grew 21% year-on-year.

在英國，我們的貸款組合年增 4%，其中抵押貸款和商業貸款表現突出。自今年早些時候我們重新推出英國高級會員服務以來，我們已經看到。IWPB 的平均每週客戶獲取量翻了一番多，費用和其他收入年增 21%。

Across our wealth businesses, fee and other income grew in the second quarter by 22%. Across these wealth businesses, we attracted net new invested assets of $22 billion in the quarter with $11 billion booked in Asia. For the last 12 months, net new invested assets was $75 million. In wholesale transaction banking, we grew fee and other income by 5% and on a constant currency basis year-on-year, given market volatility.

在我們的財富管理業務中，第二季手續費和其他收入成長了 22%。在這些財富管理業務中，我們本季吸引了 220 億美元的淨新增投資資產，其中 110 億美元來自亞洲。過去 12 個月，淨新增投資資產為 7,500 萬美元。在批發交易銀行業務方面，考慮到市場波動性，我們以固定匯率計算，手續費和其他收入年增了 5%。

Moving to the group revenue story. Revenue grew 5% and year-on-year to $17.7 billion. This was driven by fee and other income, which I'll discuss further in a moment. On banking NII. Banking NII remained broadly stable on the first quarter, reflecting lower interest rates, partly offset by the repricing of the structural hedge.

接下來談談團體營收狀況。營收年增 5%，達到 177 億美元。這主要是由手續費和其他收入驅動的，我稍後會進一步討論。關於銀行淨利息收入。銀行業淨利息收入在第一季基本保持穩定，反映出利率走低，但部分被結構性對沖的重新定價所抵銷。

Our structural hedge, now $578 billion has reduced the sensitivity of our revenues to interest rate cuts. Regarding Highway. As a reminder, under the linked exchange rate system, the Hong Kong dollar is maintained within a trading band via the HKMA's commitment to buy or sell Hong Kong dollars when the exchange rate hits either the strong site or weak side of the band.

我們目前5780億美元的結構性對沖降低了我們收入對降息的敏感度。關於高速公路。提醒各位，在聯繫匯率制度下，港元匯率透過香港金融管理局承諾在匯率觸及交易區間強弱兩端時買入或賣出港元來維持在交易區間內。

During the second quarter, we saw market-driven interventions after the Hong Kong dollar appreciated to the strong site, which added liquidity to the market and led to a notable drop in HIBOR rates. Forward market indicators suggest that the one-month HIBOR is expected to rise gradually back above 2% during the third quarter. We remain confident in the prospects for our business and in the outlook for Hong Kong.

第二季度，在港幣升值成為強勢貨幣後，我們看到了市場驅動的干預，這為市場增加了流動性，並導致HIBOR利率顯著下降。遠期市場指標顯示，預計第三季一個月期HIBOR將逐步回升至2%以上。我們對公司業務前景和香港發展前景依然充滿信心。

Slide 24 in the appendix sets out more detail around Hong Kong dollar sensitivity. We still expect banking NII of around $42 billion in 2025. Within this, lower HIBOR is a headwind a weaker dollar is a tailwind. There are many other moving parts.

附錄中的第 24 張投影片詳細闡述了港元敏感度問題。我們仍預計2025年銀行業淨利息收入約為420億美元。其中，HIBOR走低是不利因素，美元走軟是有利因素。還有許多其他活動部件。

Moving to fee and other income. As I mentioned, wholesale transaction banking grew 5% year-on-year. This reflects how closely we have been working with our customers to adapt to a changing operating environment. We are pleased this translated into strong revenue. Growth was driven by a strong FX performance, up 7%, capturing elevated client activity due to market volatility and geopolitical events.

轉向收取費用和其他收入。正如我之前提到的，批發交易銀行業務年增了 5%。這體現了我們與客戶緊密合作，以適應不斷變化的經營環境。我們很高興這轉化為強勁的營收。外匯市場表現強勁，上漲 7%，推動了成長，反映了市場波動和地緣政治事件導致客戶活動增加。

Global Trade Solutions increased 4% and driven by guarantees as we supported customers to build out infrastructure and expand production facilities. Security Services was up 3% and due to higher asset balances as a result of improved valuations and new customer mandates, particularly in Asia and the Middle East. Global Payment Solutions increased 1%, including higher volumes in cross-border and real-time payments. In wealth, Fee and other income increased 22% year-on-year with growth across all products. This represents our sixth consecutive quarter of double-digit fee growth as the strong momentum from the first quarter continued in the second quarter.

全球貿易解決方案成長了 4%，這主要得益於我們為支持客戶建設基礎設施和擴大生產設施所提供的擔保。安保服務業務成長 3%，這主要得益於估值改善和新客戶委託帶來的資產餘額增加，尤其是在亞洲和中東地區。全球支付解決方案成長 1%，其中跨境支付和即時支付的交易量增加。財富方面，手續費和其他收入年增 22%，所有產品均成長。這標誌著我們連續第六個季度實現了兩位數的費用成長，第一季的強勁勢頭在第二季得以延續。

We also benefited from higher customer activity levels in Asia, particularly in Hong Kong, where the stronger stock market drove greater customer activity. The investments we are making in our wealth business are translating into results. $22 billion of net new invested assets $11 billion of which were in Asia, $3.5 billion CSM balance, a new record. Wealth invested assets are now $1.4 trillion, up 12% year-on-year. Our $75 billion of net new invested assets over the last 12 months show that while an element of our second quarter performance was transactional, there are many positive drivers of our business.

我們也受惠於亞洲地區更高的客戶活躍度，尤其是在香港，強勁的股市推動了更大的客戶活躍度。我們在財富管理業務方面的投資正在轉化為實際成果。新增淨投資資產達220億美元，其中110億美元位於亞洲，CSM帳戶餘額達35億美元，創歷史新高。目前財富投資資產達 1.4 兆美元，年增 12%。過去 12 個月我們新增淨投資資產 750 億美元，這表明雖然我們第二季業績的一部分是交易性的，但我們的業務有很多積極的驅動因素。

On credit, our second quarter ECL charge was $1.1 billion. This includes some corporate impairments in the UK and US Mexico retail and an ECL charge for Hong Kong commercial real estate. A part of this quarter's Hong Kong ECL reflects commercial real estate, model updates and adjustments.

就信貸而言，我們第二季的預期信用損失費用為 11 億美元。這包括英國和美國墨西哥零售業務的一些公司減損損失，以及香港商業房地產的預期信用損失費用。本季香港預期信用損失的一部分反映了商業房地產、模型更新和調整。

The balance reflects what is still a weak commercial real estate market. Office rents are still declining somewhat office and retail values are softening.

這一平衡反映了商業房地產市場依然疲軟的現狀。辦公室租金仍在小幅下降，辦公室和零售物業的價值正在走軟。

Slide 25 in the appendix provides more detail on the portfolio. Challenges are concentrated in the secured portfolio, particularly with retail and office property collateral. Credit migration in the first half was predominantly in this book. We are now guiding to a group ECL charge of around 40 basis points for the full year 2025. This new guidance includes our updated outlook on Hong Kong commercial real estate.

附錄中的第 25 張投影片提供了有關投資組合的更多詳細資訊。挑戰主要集中在已擔保的資產組合中，特別是零售和辦公物業抵押品。本書主要探討了前半部的信用遷移問題。我們現在預計 2025 年全年集團預期信用損失 (ECL) 費用約為 40 個基點。這份新指南包含了我們對香港商業房地產的最新展望。

On costs. We are taking a disciplined approach to cost management and are on track to achieve our target of around 3% cost growth in 2025 compared to 2024 on a target basis. We are also on track to deliver billion of simplification savings into the P&L in 2025. This is an improvement compared to our previous expectation of $0.3 billion. Overall, in the first half, we have taken actions that deliver $0.7 billion of future cost saves.

關於成本。我們採取了嚴格的成本管理方法，並有望實現 2025 年成本成長比 2024 年成長約 3% 的目標。我們還有望在 2025 年實現數十億的簡化成本節約，並將其計入損益表。這比我們之前預期的 3 億美元有所提高。整體而言，上半年我們採取的措施可節省未來 7 億美元的成本。

In 2025, we expect to have taken actions that will result in sales of $1 billion. In 2027, the full $1.5 billion of cost saves will be in the P&L. As George highlighted, we are also making positive progress in our reallocation efforts. We have announced seven exits since the first quarter. As we exit nonstrategic activities, we will be accelerating investment into our four businesses.

預計到 2025 年，我們採取的措施將帶來 10 億美元的銷售額。到 2027 年，全部 15 億美元的成本節約將計入損益表。正如喬治所強調的那樣，我們在資源重新分配方面也取得了積極進展。自第一季以來，我們已經宣布了七項退出計劃。隨著我們退出非策略性業務，我們將加快對旗下四大業務的投資。

George set out earlier the progress we are already making.

喬治之前已經闡述了我們目前的進展。

On loans and deposits, the loan book was broadly stable with growth in the UK deposits, a structural source of strength for us were up or $83 billion over the last 12 months. Adjusting for the balances we have reclassified to held for sale, notably relating to our custody business in Germany in the second quarter. When combined with the $75 billion of net new invested assets over the same period, these show potential drivers of future income.

在貸款和存款方面，貸款帳簿總體保持穩定，英國存款（我們的結構性優勢來源）在過去 12 個月中增加了 830 億美元。調整了我們已重新分類為持有待售資產的餘額，特別是與我們在第二季在德國的託管業務相關的餘額。加上同期新增淨投資資產 750 億美元，這些都顯示了未來收入的潛在驅動因素。

Turning to capital. Our CET1 ratio was 14.6% and Overall, we have delivered a good capital number this quarter even with the capital consumption. We have accrued $0.39 of dividends per share in the first half against the $0.20 per share announced year-to-date. We expect the $3 billion buyback we announced today to have an impact of around 0.4-percentage-points.

轉向資本。我們的CET1比率為14.6%，整體而言，儘管本季資本消耗增加，但我們的資本表現依然良好。上半年我們已累積派發每股 0.39 美元的股息，而年初至今宣布的每股股息為 0.20 美元。我們預計今天宣布的 30 億美元股票回購計畫將產生約 0.4 個百分點的影響。

In summary, our second quarter results show disciplined performance and delivery. Discipline in the way we are applying strong cost control. We are on track to achieve our target of around 3% and cost growth in 2025 compared to 2024 on a target basis. Our simplification saves are ahead of our previous expectation. We are also progressing at pace with our exit of nonstrategic activities and are redeploying into priority growth areas.

總而言之，我們第二季的業績展現了嚴謹的執行力和良好的業績表現。我們在實施嚴格的成本控制方面展現了嚴謹的作風。我們正按計劃推進，力爭在 2025 年實現比 2024 年增長約 3% 的目標，並控製成本增長。簡化流程帶來的節省超出了我們先前的預期。我們也在快速推進退出非策略性業務，並將資源重新部署到優先成長領域。

Performance in our earnings, each of our full businesses is growing revenue and each one is making mid-teens RoTE or better delivery. These second quarter results show the way in which we are supporting our customers. Our 5% revenue growth and 17.7% ROTE show we are delivering against the targets we set out to you.

從獲利表現來看，我們每個業務部門的收入都在成長，每個部門的獲利能力都達到了15%或更高。第二季業績顯示了我們支持客戶的方式。我們 5% 的收入成長和 17.7% 的股本回報率表明，我們正在實現我們向您設定的目標。

Louis. Can we go to Q&A, please?

路易斯。我們可以進入問答環節了嗎？

(Operator Instructions) Benjamin Toms, RBC.

（操作員說明）Benjamin Toms，RBC。

Good Morning both. Thank you for taking my questions. The first one is on your banking NII guidance of $42 billion. You've also provided some useful guidance on one-month HIBOR sensitivity, at 1%. Can you just give some more color on the assumption that you've made within your banking NII guidance in relation to the time it will take HIBOR to return to normalized levels.

兩位早安。謝謝您回答我的問題。第一個問題是關於您給出的銀行淨利息收入預期為 420 億美元。您還提供了關於 1% 的一個月 HIBOR 敏感性的一些有用指導。您能否就您在銀行業淨利息收入指引中所做的關於HIBOR恢復正常水準所需時間的假設，再詳細解釋一下？

And then secondly, on cost of risk, the guidance range is 30 to 40 basis points, and you've been at the top end of that range now for a couple of years. is it a sensible assumption really to think that you'll remain in the top half of this range for at least FY26? Thank you.

其次，關於風險成本，指導範圍是30到40個基點，而你們已經連續兩年處於該範圍的上限。認為你們至少在2026財年都能保持在該範圍的上半部分，這真的是一個合理的假設嗎？謝謝。

Benjamin, thank you very much for your question. I'm going to ask Pam to address both your banking NII and your ECL guidance.

班傑明，非常感謝你的提問。我將請 Pam 就您的銀行淨利息收入 (NII) 和預期信用損失 (ECL) 指導原則進行說明。

Thank you, Benjamin. The $42 billion guidance includes market expectations of HIBOR, implied above 2% in third quarter. So we already said that HIBOR at a 1% impacts us by $100 million per month. So if you look overall, our HIBOR expectations as well as the impact of the $100 million. All these are included when we look at our overall confidence in the B&I guidance for the year.

謝謝你，班傑明。420億美元的業績指引包含了市場對HIBOR第三季高於2%的預期。所以我們之前說過，HIBOR利率是1%時，每月會造成我們1億美元的損失。因此，從整體來看，我們對 HIBOR 的預期以及 1 億美元的影響。所有這些因素都納入了我們對全年B&I業績指引的整體信心考量。

The B&I guidance is not just based on the forward curves. As we know, in Q2, a very low highway impacted us for around six to seven weeks. We have given more detail of it in the appendix. But a couple of things have moved around. The time deposits are now 4 points lower, and you look at those factors.

B&I 指導意見並非僅基於遠期曲線。我們知道，第二季高速公路油耗非常低，對我們造成了大約六到七週的影響。我們在附錄中提供了更多細節。但有幾件事的順序改變了。定期存款利率現在下降了 4 個百分點，你要考慮這些因素。

And as we look for the rest of the year, there will be some upside and downside, obviously, also in terms of the timing of when the HIBOR shifts happen as well as the dollar depreciation, how long it continues. In Q2, it was a tailwind for us.

展望今年剩餘時間，顯然會有一些上漲和下跌，這也取決於HIBOR調整的時間以及美元貶值持續的時間。第二季度，這對我們來說是順風。

In terms of ECLs. So from an ECL perspective, we only give you the '25 number. It's fair to say that we have always in the last few years, stayed between the 30 to 40 basis points, sometimes a bit to the upper end. So we're not giving any guidance beyond 2025 at this stage.

就 ECL 而言。所以從 ECL 的角度來看，我們只會給你「25」這個數字。公平地說，在過去的幾年裡，我們的利率一直保持在 30 到 40 個基點之間，有時甚至略高一些。因此，現階段我們並未提供2025年以後的任何指導意見。

Ben, thank you very much for the question.

本，非常感謝你的提問。

Kian Abouhossein, JPMorgan.

Kian Abouhossein，摩根大通。

Yes, thank you very much for taking my questions. Two questions. The first one is related to tariffs. You gave a guidance of 5% impact on revenues. And I just wanted to see how we should think about that going forward as you don't see anything in the numbers today. And the second question is related to Stage 1 and Stage 2 movements. So clearly, your Stage 2 has deteriorated. You discussed PDs, which have been adjusted. And I'm just trying to understand a little bit more detail around your movements, in particular in the corporate and commercial bank in terms of potential realized losses, but also model adjustments versus environment. Thank you.

是的，非常感謝您回答我的問題。兩個問題。第一個問題與關稅有關。您給出的指導意見是，這將對收入產生 5% 的影響。我只是想看看我們今後應該如何看待這個問題，因為從今天的數據中看不到任何端倪。第二個問題與第一階段和第二階段的運動有關。很明顯，你的第二階段病情惡化了。您討論了已經調整過的PD值。我只是想更詳細地了解你們的動向，特別是企業和商業銀行方面的潛在已實現損失，以及模型調整與環境的關係。謝謝。

Kian, thank you very much for the question. I'm going to make some comments on your tariff question, and will ask Pam to talk to these scenarios. And I'll ask Pam to address your Stage 1 and Stage 2 questions.

Kian，非常感謝你的提問。我打算就您提出的關稅問題發表一些看法，並請帕姆談談這些情況。我會請帕姆回答你們關於第一階段和第二階段的問題。

So on tariffs. First, tariff has never been a new feature of global trade has always been there. Although we've seen recently a more significant shift in the US state of policy, that's created more uncertainty, but at the same time now as we're encouraged to see that more agreements are in are being concluded, and this is giving us more -- ideally, more certainty as we look in the future. But the important things to call out.

所以，關於關稅問題。首先，關稅從來都不是全球貿易的新特徵，它一直都存在。儘管我們最近看到美國政策發生了更顯著的變化，這造成了更多的不確定性，但同時，我們也欣慰地看到更多協議正在達成，這讓我們對未來有了更多——理想情況下——確定性。但以下幾點值得重點指出。

One, as you did see from our Q2 results, our trade fees and other income has grown by 4%. And the reason is multiple. First, we are positioned across some of the fastest-growing trade corridors on the planet, specifically the ones within Asia, between Asia and the Middle East and various parts of the world. where trade continues to grow significantly higher trends than some of the more traditional trade corridors. And where we have a leadership position across these intra-Asia, Asia, Middle East corridors.

第一，正如您從我們第二季業績中看到的那樣，我們的交易費和其他收入成長了 4%。原因有很多。首先，我們的地理位置優越，位於全球一些成長最快的貿易走廊沿線，特別是亞洲內部、亞洲與中東之間以及世界其他地區的貿易走廊。這些地區的貿易成長速度明顯高於一些較傳統的貿易走廊。我們在亞洲內部、亞洲、中東走廊地區都處於領先地位。

Second one is we kept investing at base in our services trade sector. And now we have capabilities there, and we're able to capture a much faster growth in services trade sector than what has been the growth exhibited in the goods trade sector. And that's another area of strength for HSBC.

第二點是我們持續增加對服務貿易領域的投資。現在我們具備了這方面的能力，我們能夠實現服務貿易領域比貨物貿易領域更快的成長。而這正是匯豐銀行的另一個大優勢領域。

And third, even in trade in so far that the US is involved and imports into the US Some of the unique propositions we've put forward such as trade pay has given unique support to US importers in helping them manage their working capital facilities and helping them meet their duty, the duties they're due to pay on for tariffs in a way that allowed us to continue growing our business and gaining share. You put all of this together, you put the expertise we have with more than 5,000 trade specialists across more than 50 markets where we operate.

第三，即使在涉及美國的貿易中，我們提出的一些獨特方案，例如貿易支付，也為美國進口商提供了獨特的支持，幫助他們管理營運資金，並幫助他們繳納關稅，即他們應繳納的關稅，這使我們能夠繼續發展業務並獲得市場份額。把所有這些因素綜合起來，結合我們在50多個市場運作的5,000多位貿易專家的專業知識。

And you can see the resilience of our business to uncertainty. Actually, it is a period where we can differentiate, continue gaining market share, deepening customer relationships acquiring more customers. And this is what we envisage for the expertise we have and the strength we have in our trade business.

你可以看到我們業務在不確定性面前展現的韌性。實際上，這是一個我們可以脫穎而出、持續擴大市場佔有率、加深客戶關係、獲取更多客戶的時期。這就是我們對自身在貿易業務中擁有的專業技術和實力所做出的想像。

Now with regard to scenarios, I would like Pam to take you through it, but remember, some of these scenarios are including extreme market movements such as interest rates at 1%, which have a material impact beyond what is the pure trade impact in our business. Pam?

關於各種情景，我想請帕姆為大家詳細介紹一下，但請記住，其中一些情景包括極端的市場波動，例如利率達到 1%，這會對我們的業務產生實質性的影響，而不僅僅是貿易影響。帕姆？

Yes. Thank you, George. So firstly, in terms of our scenarios, we continue to update them on a quarterly basis. I just want to reiterate, we are still comfortable that the impact on revenue that we highlighted in the first quarter of low single digit from tariffs is still the same. When you look at scenarios more broadly and you look at the lower interest rates, then whether you're a trade bank or not, it would affect us like any other bank if interest rates go well below 2% in the 1% territory.

是的。謝謝你，喬治。首先，就我們的情境分析而言，我們會繼續按季度進行更新。我只想重申一下，我們仍然認為，我們在第一季強調的關稅對收入的個位數低位影響仍然保持不變。當你更廣泛地看待各種情況，並考慮較低的利率時，無論你是不是一家貿易銀行，如果利率遠低於 2%，甚至降至 1% 左右，都會對我們和其他銀行產生影響。

So that's the kind of broader piece in terms of the downside scenarios. I also want to share with you that when we look at our customers and our portfolio so far, the customers are impacted by tariffs from a credit perspective, they're holding well. We are seeing no early warning signs or triggers of either lower deposits or additional drawdowns.

所以，以上就是關於下行風險的比較全面的分析。我也想和大家分享一下，從我們目前對客戶和投資組合的觀察來看，雖然客戶受到關稅的影響，但從信用角度來看，他們的信用狀況良好。我們目前沒有看到任何可能導致存款減少或進一步回撤的早期預警信號或觸發因素。

Now coming on to the ECLs in terms of the model update. So the model update was looking at really PDs and looking at them in a more calibrated way across our portfolio. And in Hong Kong, it increased the allowance number going to Stage 2, as we have already disclosed. But on the other hand, in the UK, it was a release. some models when the calibration happens, some markets goes up, some down.

現在來說說ECL的車型更新狀況。因此，模型更新實際上是著眼於 PD，並以更校準的方式在整個投資組合中審視它們。正如我們之前披露的那樣，香港提高了進入第二階段的配額數量。但另一方面，在英國，這是一次發布。當校準完成時，一些市場上漲，一些市場下跌。

So I just wanted to share that with you overall. And the vast majority of the model changes was actually due to PD migration. And then you can imagine how it varies from market to market.

所以，我只是想和你們分享這些。絕大多數模型變更實際上是由於 PD 遷移造成的。然後你可以想像，不同市場之間的差異有多大。

Thank you very much, Kian.

非常感謝你，基安。

Kunpeng Ma, China Securities.

馬坤鵬，中國證券。

Good morning, George. Good morning, Pam. I have two questions on impairments. The first one is related to the BoCom impairment, especially that one with the VIU test. It seems that you conduct VIU test every quarter. So you -- but you don't charge impairments every quarter. It seems that the impairment charge always come together with other bad news.

早上好，喬治。早上好，帕姆。關於殘疾問題，我有兩個問題。第一個問題與商會損傷有關，特別是與 VIU 測試相關的問題。你們似乎每季都會進行 VIU 測試。所以你——但你不會每季都提減減損準備。似乎減損損失總是與其他壞消息同時出現。

When you first charge there the VIU impairment in the fourth quarter of '23, you got French disposal loss, you got a slight base on the cost control. So you charge the first time. And in this quarter, you got the BoCom dilution impairment. So I also cover Chinese banks. Their fundamentals are weak.

當你在 2023 年第四季首次提列 VIU 減損損失時，你得到了法國處置損失，成本控制方面略有起色。所以第一次要充電。本季也出現了商行股權稀釋減損。所以我也報道中國銀行業。他們的基本面很薄弱。

But there were no sudden drops in fundamentals in the second quarter. So it seems that VIU impairment charge always come together with other bad news. So can you please share us a little bit some more color the factors triggering that kind of VIU impairment charge. That's the first question.

但第二季基本面並未出現突然下滑。看來VIU減損費用總是與其他壞消息同時出現。那麼，您能否再詳細解釋引發這類 VIU 減損費用的因素？這是第一個問題。

The second question is that can you share us some views on a little bit longer term on the Hong Kong CRE outlook, you increased the credit cost assumption going forward due to the Hong CRE pressure. Is there any chance that the Hong Kong CRE pressure will further increase your ECL assumptions going forward? Yes, I have those two questions. Thank you.

第二個問題是，您能否分享一下您對香港商業房地產前景的長期看法？由於香港商業房地產面臨的壓力，您提高了未來的信貸成本假設。香港商業房地產壓力是否有可能進一步提高您未來的預期信用損失假設？是的，我還有這兩個問題。謝謝。

Kunpeng, thank you very much. I'm going to take your second question first and give you some outlook on the Hong Kong CRD. Pam can then give you additional details on ECL and can address your first question about BoCom. I'll make one comment on BoCom.

鯤鵬，非常感謝。我先回答你的第二個問題，並跟你談談對香港資本市場開發區的看法。Pam 隨後可以向您提供有關 ECL 的更多詳細信息，並解答您關於 BoCom 的第一個問題。關於商銀行，我只想說一點。

So with Hong Kong CRE, the first, Kunpeng, as you may expect, we know this market very well. We've been in Hong Kong for 160 years in both in the sector. And we're comfortable with the position in this market. That's very important to call out. Specifically, as regards residential development, this has stabilized.

所以，對於香港CRE，首先是鯕鵬，正如您所料，我們對這個市場非常了解。我們在香港從事相關行業已有160年歷史。我們對目前在市場上的地位感到滿意。這一點非常重要，必須強調。具體而言，就住宅開發而言，情況已趨於穩定。

This has stabilized and we're encouraged by that. We stabilized mostly because of policy support measures that have been taken as well as because of robust rental market more recently. But when we look wider in the CRE space, specifically around the office CRE space in Hong Kong, we're still struggling because of some oversupply in this space. Now we are encouraged by some additional government action taken to restrict land sales and office CRE, and this should work its way into the medium term by restricting supply and supporting if you want the recovery of pricing in this space, but there will be some short-term pressure.

情況已經穩定下來，我們對此感到鼓舞。我們之所以能夠穩定下來，主要是因為政府採取了政策支持措施，以及近期租賃市場的強勁發展。但當我們把目光放得更遠，放眼整個商業地產領域，特別是香港的辦公大樓商業地產領域時，我們仍然面臨著供應過剩的困境。現在，政府採取了一些額外的措施來限制土地銷售和辦公大樓商業房地產，這讓我們感到鼓舞。這些措施應該會在中期內透過限制供應來支持該領域價格的復甦，但短期內會有一些壓力。

Now of the exposure we have in Hong Kong CRE. We basically called out less than 5% of it, around $1.5 billion of that exposure, where we continue to look with focus and attention. That $1.5 billion is to the weak lenders that are either substandard or credit impaired where the loan to valuation of the collateral is above 70%. Now against this $1.5 billion, we have $0.5 billion ECL. So it gives you a quantum of what is a worst-case scenario in the space can be.

現在我們有機會接觸香港商業房地產。我們基本上只指出了其中不到 5% 的風險敞口，約 15 億美元，我們將繼續專注於這些風險敞口。這 15 億美元將用於幫助那些信用狀況不佳或貸款價值比超過 70% 的弱勢貸款機構。現在，在這 15 億美元中，我們有 5 億美元的預期信用損失 (ECL)。所以它能讓你大致了解該領域最壞情況的程度。

And that is the segment we're looking at. across the wider spectrum on Hong Kong CRE. What I can say is our mission, obviously, to continue to support our customers as they work through some of the short-term challenges they're going through. But that in the medium to long term, we remain confident in the supply-demand dynamic in Hong Kong and appeal of the Hong Kong real estate at large, and therefore, remain constructive and optimistic about the medium to long term.

這就是我們正在關注的領域，也是我們在香港商業房地產大局中關注的重點。我可以說的是，我們的使命很明確，那就是繼續支持我們的客戶，幫助他們克服目前面臨的一些短期挑戰。但從中長期來看，我們仍然對香港的供需動態和香港房地產的整體吸引力充滿信心，因此，我們對中長期前景保持建設性和樂觀態度。

On -- the comment I want to make on BoCom is purely coincidental. There is no correlation whatsoever between an accounting process related to the VRU process versus any other information. But remember, the BoCom impairments have no CET1 impact. They have no CET1 ratio impact. They have, therefore, also no distribution impact in terms of dividend or share buyback.

關於——我想對商銀行發表的評論純屬巧合。與 VRU 流程相關的會計流程與任何其他資訊之間沒有任何關聯。但請記住，交通銀行的減損對 CET1 沒有影響。它們對CET1比率沒有影響。因此，它們對股利或股票回購的分配也沒有影響。

So I really encourage you to look at it as a pure accounting but no actual economic impact to the bank. Pam?

所以我強烈建議你把它看作純粹的會計問題，而不是對銀行的實際經濟影響。帕姆？

Thank you. Take the question on Hong Kong CRE first and then on BoCom. So in Hong Kong CRE, our book is down $1 billion to $32 billion, and it's mainly because of repayments done at the unsecured end of the book, where the exposure is mainly to very strong diverse conglomerates, which are nearly 95% rated stronger good and have had very little impairment. That's 42% of our limits. So the increase that we have seen in the impaired book, you're right, it's $600 million is largely to the secured side of the portfolio.

謝謝。先回答有關香港商業房地產的問題，再回答有關交通銀行的問題。因此，在香港商業房地產領域，我們的帳面資產減少了 10 億美元，降至 320 億美元，這主要是由於帳面無擔保部分的償還，而這部分資產主要投資於實力雄厚的多元化企業集團，這些集團近 95% 的評級為“良好”，並且幾乎沒有減值。這相當於我們限額的 42%。所以，我們看到的不良資產帳簿增加，你說得對，是 6 億美元，這主要集中在投資組合的擔保資產部分。

And the Stage 2 allowance increase is entirely due to model. So out of that, the charge we've taken of $400 million, the quarter, $100 million is due to the modeling charges.

第二階段補貼增加完全是因為車型調整。因此，我們從中扣除了 4 億美元的費用，其中 1 億美元是建模費用。

As George has said, the area we are most focused on is the substandard and the credit impaired side of the book, where the exposure is $1.4 billion. There is already an existing ECL charge of $500 million. So you can see further down what it means from an outlook perspective. Overall, when we have refreshed our ECL guidance, we obviously stress it with upside, downside and some fairly stringent requirements, and we continuously monitor our book, and we think that overall guidance that we have given in terms of around 40 basis points captures the entirety of the risk in the Hong Kong CRE book as we look at it now.

正如喬治所說，我們最關注的領域是帳簿中的次級貸款和信用受損貸款，這部分風險敞口為 14 億美元。目前已有 5 億美元的預期信用損失費用。所以，你可以繼續往下看，從展望的角度來看，這代表什麼。總的來說，當我們更新預期信用損失指引時，我們顯然會強調上行風險、下行風險以及一些相當嚴格的要求，並且我們會持續監控我們的賬簿，我們認為，我們給出的約 40 個基點的總體指引已經涵蓋了我們目前所看到的香港商業房地產賬簿的全部風險。

So on BoCom, and as George said, of course, we don't link impairment timing to anything else. It's a retained quarterly accounting process. Again, we use our models. It's a value-in-use model. It is very sensitive to input factors. So even a small shift in basis point can make it move up or down.

所以，正如喬治所說，在商銀行，我們當然不會將減損時間與其他任何因素連結起來。這是一個按季度進行的會計核算流程。我們再次運用了我們的模型。這是一個使用價值模型。它對輸入因素非常敏感。因此，即使基點發生微小的變化，也會導致價格上漲或下跌。

And when we make an impairment, it's because the fair value from the model is below the carrying value we have already given you details on the model sensitivity to the various inputs in our annual report, and nothing has changed in that process. Just to reiterate, we don't expect any impact on CET1 from any further impairments. We also have no impact of this on our distribution or dividend policy. And the model we'll do what the model does. Every quarter, we look at it and make changes accordingly.

當我們進行減損時，是因為模型所得的公允價值低於帳面價值。我們已經在年度報告中詳細說明了模型對各種輸入的敏感性，而這一過程沒有任何變化。再次重申，我們預計任何進一步的減損都不會對 CET1 產生任何影響。這對我們的分紅或股利政策沒有任何影響。至於模型，我們會按照模型的運作方式來做。每個季度我們都會進行評估，並據此做出相應的調整。

Kunpeng, thank you very much.

鯤鵬，非常感謝。

Aman Rakkar, Barclays.

阿曼·拉卡爾，巴克萊銀行。

Morning, George. Good morning, Pam. I had a couple of questions, please, one on net interest income and one on costs. So sorry, two-part question on NII. So just the face value your banking NII guidance a $42 million for the year, given that you're kind of annualizing at 43 H1 does actually imply a pretty marked step off in net interest income in H2? I kind of just want to query whether you really mean that or not. There's obviously lots of moving parts supply here, but it implies a run rate for net interest income in H2, which I guess people carry over into 26.

早上好，喬治。早上好，帕姆。我有兩個問題，一個是關於淨利息收入的，一個是關於成本的。非常抱歉，關於NII的問題分為兩部分。所以，僅從您給出的銀行業淨利息收入指引4200萬美元來看，考慮到您上半年的年化率為4300萬美元，這實際上意味著下半年淨利息收入將出現相當大的下滑？我只是想確認一下，你是不是真心這麼想的。這裡顯然有很多活動部件供應，但這意味著下半年淨利息收入的運行率，我猜人們會將其延續到 2026 年。

So I don't know, is there no other conservatism in that is there just too much uncertainty around HIBOR.

所以我不知道，難道就沒有其他保守主義因素了嗎？還是說HIBOR存在太多不確定性？

The kind of second part of that first question, if I may, is just can you help me understand the levers that you're pulling and able to continue pulling from here to offset this HIBOR decline. So I'm specifically thinking about deposit pass-throughs.

如果可以的話，我想問第一個問題的第二部分，您能否幫我理解您正在採取哪些措施，以及您接下來能夠繼續採取哪些措施來抵消HIBOR的下降？所以我特別指的是存款轉入。

The second question is around cost, please. So I'm just interested in how hard you are running. You're pushing the organization right now to realize the cost savings because outside in I think you're kind of leading a bit of a quiet revolution across the firm to the extent that you can. And I'm hopeful that you can realize additional cost saves over time. So George, I'm really interested in your reflections on how -- is this -- are you running max capacity now in terms of what you're trying to do?

第二個問題是關於費用的。所以我只是想知道你跑步有多拼命。你現在正在推動公司實現成本節約，因為我認為你正在盡你所能，從外部引領一場席捲整個公司的悄然變革。我希望隨著時間的推移，您能夠節省更多成本。喬治，我真的很想聽聽你對「你現在是否已經發揮出最大能力來做你正在做的事情」的看法？

And just a modeling point to me, next year, I think it should be flattish costs next year. I don't think consensus got that, but a 3.5% inflation rate on costs and the $1.1 billion of gross saves tells me should be flat next year. So if you can comment on that as well, that would be great. Thank you so much.

就我個人而言，我認為明年的成本應該會保持穩定。我認為大家並沒有共識，但3.5%的成本通膨率和11億美元的毛節省額告訴我，明年應該會持平。如果您也能就此發表意見，那就太好了。太感謝了。

Okay. Aman, thank you very much for the questions. Let me -- I'll deal with your cost question first since you've called this one out clearly to me, and then I'll give some comments in banking NII, but Pam can give you -- can elaborate better on the movers and shakers of our banking NII.

好的。阿曼，非常感謝你的提問。讓我先回答你的成本問題，因為你已經明確地向我提出了這個問題，然後我會對銀行淨利息收入發表一些看法，但 Pam 可以更好地向你詳細說明我們銀行淨利息收入的推動因素。

So first, cost discipline in grading the firm quarter after quarter, year after year. It's a commitment we have to this discipline. It's our confidence in our ability to meet the commitments we have. And it's the fact that we are on track on all the cost items, be it our underlying cost or the cost saves. So that one doesn't change.

首先，要嚴格控製成本，逐季度、逐年對公司進行評級。這是我們對這項運動的承諾。這是我們對自身履行承諾能力的信心。而事實上，我們在所有成本項目上都達到了預期目標，無論是基本成本還是成本節約。所以這一點不會改變。

In terms of the cost takeout, the cost takeout that's taking place now that we're calling out as a stage related to organizational simplification. Remember intention to simplify the organization, make us simple and agile. But there is obviously an ancillary benefit, which is a cost reduction from deduplication of rolls with limited impact on our revenue generation capabilities. That one is moving at pace, and we just revised upward to the saves we can achieve this year to add to the target of $1.5 billion, which we will take to the bottom line, and we expect to achieve by the full year 2020. There is another cost takeout, which is exiting of nonstrategic activities.

就成本削減而言，我們現在所進行的成本削減，我們稱之為與組織簡化相關的階段。記住我們簡化組織的初衷，讓我們變得簡單又靈活。但顯然還有一個附帶的好處，那就是透過重複資料刪除降低成本，而對我們的創收能力影響有限。這項計劃進展迅速，我們剛剛上調了今年可以實現的節省目標，以增加 15 億美元的目標，我們將把這部分節省計入淨利潤，並預計在 2020 年全年實現。還有一種降低成本的方法是退出非策略性活動。

We announced seven exits since the Q1 results. These in total will add up to about $1.5 billion of cost takeout. About 1/3 has already been announced a third has been worked on. And we intend once these cost saves are achieved to reinvest this into our core revenues growth areas, strategic areas where we have competitive advantage and can generate accretive returns. But this is not the only levers we have on cost.

自第一季業績公佈以來，我們宣布了七項退出計畫。這些措施加起來將節省約15億美元的成本。大約三分之一已經公佈，三分之一已經開始著手進行。我們計劃在實現這些成本節約後，將這些資金再投資於我們的核心收入成長領域，也就是我們具有競爭優勢並能產生增值回報的策略領域。但這並非我們控製成本的唯一手段。

We continue working at our operating leverage and cost. As you know, efficiency and productivity drives, including through Gen AI, automation and other modernization of our capabilities will continue as a matter of regular course of business, and these improvements will continue helping us manage our costs. I'm not going to comment on 2026, we have not guided to it, but just given the amount of sales we expect to achieve from the simplification '26.

我們將繼續努力提高營運槓桿率並降低成本。如您所知，提高效率和生產力，包括透過人工智慧、自動化和其他現代化手段來提升我們的能力，將繼續作為日常業務的一部分，這些改進將繼續幫助我們控製成本。我不會對 2026 年發表評論，我們也沒有針對那一年做出預測，但鑑於我們預計簡化後的 2026 年銷售額將達到多少。

Look, on banking NII, the one comment I'd like to make is that we continue growing our deposit base and continue being extremely liquid to support growth in loan as and when our customers start investing again. We called out $83 billion growth in our deposits over the last 12 months. That's a 5% growth in our deposit base. And our deposits drive the lion's share of our banking NII, and that's a very important lever in the growth potential we can achieve in banking NII in terms of volume growth.

關於銀行業淨利息收入，我想說的是，我們將繼續擴大存款基礎，並保持極高的流動性，以便在客戶再次開始投資時支持貸款成長。我們宣布，過去 12 個月我們的存款增加了 830 億美元。我們的存款基礎增加了5%。我們的存款是銀行淨利息收入的主要來源，這是我們實現銀行淨利息收入規模成長潛力的一個非常重要的槓桿。

Thank you. So Aman, just a quick comment on cost. The cost discipline will very much continue, not just into '26 but further on as well. And we also said earlier, we will continue to invest in ways of increasing our productivity, and that will be something which will be a priority for us. and that's something we can control.

謝謝。阿曼，關於成本，我只想簡單說幾句。成本控制的趨勢將會持續下去，不僅到 2026 年，而且會持續更久。我們之前也說過，我們將繼續投資於提高生產力的方法，這將是我們的優先事項，也是我們能夠控制的事情。

And we have shown you a good track record in the first few quarters, and we continue to focus on that. Now coming down to banking NII, you're right, around $42 billion. You may deem it to be conservative. If you just do the simple arithmetic in terms of what the run rate takes us to. And this quarter, in we had, obviously, the headwind from HIBOR, but it was offset to some extent by a weaker US

我們在前幾個季度取得了良好的業績，我們將繼續專注於此。現在來說說銀行業淨利息收入，你說得對，大約是 420 億美元。你或許會認為它比較保守。如果你簡單地計算一下運行率能把我們帶到什麼程度。本季度，我們顯然受到了HIBOR利率的不利影響，但疲軟的美國經濟在一定程度上抵消了這一影響。

dollar. So the timing of how long the US dollar depreciation continues and on HIBOR also is important. We are assuming that there will be a sharp normalization of fiber within this to around the 2% mark. Obviously, any delay in this delay of July, month costs $100 million at a 1% HIBOR.

美元。因此，美元貶值持續的時間以及HIBOR的走勢也很重要。我們假設纖維含量會在此範圍內急劇趨於正常化，達到 2% 左右。顯然，如果7月的延期導致工期延誤，以1%的HIBOR利率計算，將造成1億美元的損失。

What we will have as a benefit still coming in the rest of the year is the structural hedge, which is a tailwind. We've got a reinvestment of $55 billion in the second half at 2.8%. We have to reinvest. And if there's an improvement of on that in terms of the reinvestment rates as they stand. So that obviously is a tailwind.

今年剩餘時間裡，我們將繼續受益於結構性對沖，這是一個有利因素。我們在下半年有 550 億美元的再投資，收益率為 2.8%。我們必須進行再投資。如果再投資率能有所提升的話。這顯然是一個順風。

Now the balance sheet growth has been a real positive, and it's mainly driven by deposits. Our Hong Kong time deposit migration in a lower interest rate was sort of 4 points into Q2, but obviously, this can move up or down. Now in terms of levers to offset the HIBOR pressures, the Hong Kong time deposits were repriced. We also saw some balance sheet growth happening because part of the weakness of the HIBOR was because of the strong salon connect inflows into Hong Kong and that immediately gave us the benefit into our deposit line. We have been also active in market treasury.

現在資產負債表的成長確實是一個正面的訊號，這主要得益於存款的成長。第二季度，香港定期存款利率下降了約 4 個百分點，但顯然，利率可能會上升或下降。為了抵​​銷香港銀行同業拆息（HIBOR）帶來的壓力，香港定期存款利率進行了重新定價。我們也看到資產負債表有所增長，因為香港銀行同業拆息疲軟的部分原因是沙龍資金大量流入香港，這立即為我們的存款額度帶來了好處。我們也一直活躍於市場資金管理領域。

The benefit of that goes into fee and other income. So all in all, there are a number of areas which we can full levers to be very confident on our around $42 billion guidance for banking NII. But as always, we will be conservative, realistic and if we outperform the outperform.

這樣做的好處體現在費用和其他收入。總而言之，我們可以充分利用多個領域的資源，對銀行業淨利息收入約 420 億美元的預期目標充滿信心。但一如既往，我們將採取保守、務實的態度，如果表現出色，我們將力爭超越預期。

Okay. Aman, thank you very much for your question.

好的。阿曼，非常感謝你的提問。

Kendra Yan, CICC.

Kendra Yan，中金公司。

Thanks for taking my questions.I have two questions. The first is about the noninterest income. I think that HSBC delivered quite strong noninterest income in both quarter one and quarter two, primarily driven by the wealth management, FX and the capital markets-related business. So I wonder how you see the sustainability of this momentum going forward.

感謝您回答我的問題。我有兩個問題。第一點是關於非利息收入。我認為匯豐銀行在第一季和第二季都實現了相當強勁的非利息收入，這主要得益於財富管理、外匯和資本市場相關業務的推動。所以我想知道您如何看待這種勢頭能否持續下去。

And the second question is about the stable coin because there are several countries and areas have introduced stable coin related regulations. How does HSBC view the cryptocurrency this area? Have you like have some initiations in this area or we will maintain a cautious approach on this area? That's my two questions. Thanks.

第二個問題是關於穩定幣的，因為一些國家和地區已經推出了與穩定幣相關的法規。匯豐銀行如何看待該地區的加密貨幣？你們是否打算在這個領域進行一些嘗試，還是我們會在這個領域保持謹慎的態度？這就是我的兩個問題。謝謝。

Thank you very much, Kendra. Let me start with the stable coin question, and then I'll give you some of my kind of comments on non-NII wealth effects, et cetera, and Pam can elaborate further on that part of the question. Okay. So digitized means of payment. We have launched tokenized deposit services for our wholesale customers. It's live in Hong Kong, Singapore, it will be live in September in the UK and in the Eurozone.

非常感謝你，肯德拉。讓我先從穩定幣的問題開始，然後我會就非淨收益收入的財富效應等問題發表一些看法，Pam 可以就這部分問題進一步闡述。好的。因此，數位化支付方式。我們已為批發客戶推出代幣化存款服務。目前已在香港和新加坡上線，9 月將在英國和歐元區上線。

And then early in 2016, it will be live in a number of other countries, including the US, the UAE and other. This will allow our wholesale customers and is already allowing our wholesale customers to do cross-border transactions between -- with their suppliers or the other kind of counterparties on a real-time basis and on an always on as in 24/7 basis. So that service is live and is developing, and we continue investing in it. It's programmable, and it basically leverages the blockchain technology. So we're very pleased with this development.

然後，在 2016 年初，它將在包括美國、阿聯酋等在內的許多其他國家上線。這將使我們的批發客戶能夠（並且已經使我們的批發客戶能夠）與他們的供應商或其他類型的交易對手進行跨境交易，並且能夠全天候（24/7）進行交易。該服務已經上線並正在發展，我們將繼續對其進行投資。它是可編程的，基本上利用了區塊鏈技術。因此，我們對這項進展非常滿意。

Now beyond what we already offer in terms of tokenized deposits, we are watching very closely the regulatory developments around stable coin, very encouraged about Hong Kong, indeed issuing regulation there. Obviously, the US with the Genius billers publishing regulation there. So what we will monitor one is that the regulation addresses all our regulatory-related concerns such as financial crime, prudential and other risks. We will also monitor the issuers of stable coin and their compliance with this regulation.

除了我們目前提供的代幣化存款服務之外，我們正在密切關注穩定幣的監管發展，尤其對香港即將出台的監管法規感到鼓舞。顯然，美國有 Genius 計費器發布監管規定。因此，我們將監控的一點是，該法規是否解決了我們所有與監管相關的擔憂，例如金融犯罪、審慎監管和其他風險。我們也將監控穩定幣發行方及其對本規定的遵守情況。

And then subject to those, we will evaluate all potential banking services we can do with them or customers involved with these issues. So that we expect to move at pace. With regard to other crypto, at this stage, we have no appetite to involve in other kind of algorithmic or other non-aged cryptocurrencies as an asset class, we still do not have risk appetite to be involved in that space.

然後，根據這些情況，我們將評估我們可以為他們或與這些問題相關的客戶提供的所有潛在銀行服務。因此，我們預計會快速發展。至於其他加密貨幣，現階段我們沒有興趣將其他類型的演算法或其他非成熟加密貨幣作為資產類別進行投資，我們仍然沒有風險承受能力參與該領域。

Okay. Now with regard to our non-NII, there are a few comments I want to make and I'll hand over to Pam, is it's a very important area for us. It's a very important investment area for us. Let me talk about, first, transaction banking, we have a leadership position. We're a top two player in global transaction banking and payments and FX and trade with the trade bank for seven or eight consecutive years, the largest trade bank.

好的。現在關於我們的非NII，我想說幾句，然後把麥克風交給Pam，因為這對我們來說是一個非常重要的領域。這對我們來說是一個非常重要的投資領域。首先，我想談談交易銀行業務，我們在這方面處於領先地位。我們連續七、八年名列全球交易銀行、支付、外匯和貿易領域的前兩名，是最大的貿易銀行。

It's an area of unique strength, unique expertise. It's an area of continued investment both in digital capabilities and customer servicing. And we continue to see this area as resiliently growing and as demonstrated, 5% growth in Q2, of which 4% growth within trained itself that resilient underlying growth is due to the fact that we continue deepening customer relationships, gaining market share and acquiring new customers through all our expertise and our investment.

這是一個擁有獨特優勢和獨特專長的領域。這是公司在數位化能力和客戶服務方面持續投資的領域。我們繼續看到該領域保持著強勁的成長勢頭，正如第二季度 5% 的成長所證明的那樣，其中 4% 的成長源於我們不斷深化客戶關係、透過我們的專業知識和投資獲得市場份額和新客戶。

The second one I want to talk to is went six consecutive quarters of double-digit growth. Our target there is to grow in the medium term at double-digit rates, but that could be volatile from quarter-to-quarter, right, based on market conditions. But this is also an area of active investment with intent.

我想談的第二家公司已經連續六個季度實現了兩位數的成長。我們的目標是在中期內實現兩位數的成長，但根據市場情況，季度之間的成長可能會出現波動，對吧。但這也是有目的地積極投資的領域。

Our footprint, our brand, our heritage in Asia and the Middle East, in particular, give us unique strength to be able to accelerate this growth and continue gaining market share and benefiting from the underlying growth in the market. And we've demonstrated a number of initiatives that we've already rolled out, be it in wealth centers, relationship managers or technology capabilities, the get capabilities we've been rolling out to our customers.

我們在亞洲和中東的業務佈局、品牌和歷史傳承，賦予了我們獨特的優勢，使我們能夠加速成長，不斷擴大市場份額，並從市場的潛在成長中受益。我們已經展示了許多已經推出的舉措，無論是在財富中心、客戶經理或技術能力方面，我們都一直在向客戶推廣這些能力。

And last but not least, capital markets and advisory, our debt and equity trading, all of whom have benefited also from our focused investment and our capabilities to be more meaningful and relevant for our customers and deliver growth as we did also in Q2. Pam?

最後，資本市場和諮詢業務、債務和股權交易也受益於我們專注的投資以及我們為客戶提供更有意義、更相關的服務並實現成長的能力，就像我們在第二季所做的那樣。帕姆？

Thank you, George. Thank you, Kendra. So we have been focusing on growing our fee and other income. As George has said, it's been a focus area, and we've seen strong performance. Now albeit in the last two quarters. There has been the tailwind of market conditions. And it's hard to predict when the sort of transactional tailwinds will fade away. But nevertheless, if you look at the various spots that build up to this fee and other income, FX was up 7%, a very strong position in FX. There's a baseline that will always be a growth engine. Investment distribution was up 24%.

謝謝你，喬治。謝謝你，肯德拉。因此，我們一直致力於提高收費和其他收入。正如喬治所說，這一直是我們的重點領域，而且我們已經看到了良好的效果。雖然是在最近兩個季度。市場環境有利。而且，很難預測這種交易利好因素何時會消失。但即便如此，如果你看看構成這筆費用和其他收入的各個環節，外匯市場上漲了 7%，外匯市場表現非常強勁。總是會有一個基準線，它將始終是成長的引擎。投資分配成長了24%。

Private banking was up 12%. And there are also other annuity revenues, which are like our net new invested assets, which are up $75 billion over the last four quarters, so not really helped just by tailwinds and also the insurance CSM balance is at record levels, and that will just strip into the P&L over time. So that's also like an annuity. Now there's just one or two items, which I would call one-offs or specifically volatile beyond the sort of transactional tailwinds. One is the Argentina hyperinflation which was the $200 million impact in Q2 of '24, obviously, was not a repeat in Q2 of 25, but with Argentina gone and that sort of is not going to be, again, coming into the comparison.

私人銀行業務成長12%。此外，還有其他年金收入，就像我們的淨新增投資資產一樣，在過去四個季度中增加了 750 億美元，所以這不僅僅是順風帶來的，而且保險 CSM 餘額也達到了創紀錄的水平，隨著時間的推移，這將逐漸擠佔損益表。所以這也有點像年金。現在只剩下一兩件商品，我稱之為一次性商品，或者說波動性特別大，超出了交易順風的影響範圍。一是阿根廷的惡性通貨膨脹，在 2024 年第二季造成了 2 億美元的影響，顯然，2025 年第二季沒有重演，但隨著阿根廷的消失，這種情況不會再被納入比較之中。

And the other was a $100 million related to market treasury activity, and that will be volatile, a little change from quarter-to-quarter. So overall, very comfortable with the core of the growth with some moves from quarter-to-quarter.

另一筆是與市場國債活動相關的 1 億美元，這筆款項波動較大，每季都會略有變化。總體而言，我對成長的核心部分非常滿意，儘管每個季度之間會有一些波動。

Kendra, thank you very much for your questions.

Kendra，非常感謝你的提問。

Joseph Dickerson, Jefferies.

Joseph Dickerson，傑富瑞集團。

Hi, thank you for taking my question. Just a simple follow-up on the Hong Kong CRE, which I think you've done a pretty good job of addressing. I guess what drove the timing of this charge? Because the some of the dynamics that you point out in the interim report, you could have easily argued were there in Q4. So I guess what drove the timing of today versus Q4? And then is there any way to gauge what you think the appropriate coverage level is?

您好，感謝您回答我的問題。關於香港商業地產，我有一個簡單的後續問題，我認為您已經很好地解答了這個問題。我想了解是什麼原因促使他們選擇這個時間點來收費？因為你在期中報告中指出的一些動態，其實很容易就能證明在第四季就已經存在了。所以我想知道是什麼原因導致發佈時間從第四季推遲到了今天？那麼，有沒有什麼方法可以衡量你認為合適的覆蓋水準是多少呢？

Because clearly, I think you also had about 20 bps of credit risk migration in last year's from the I'm just trying to walk through the moving parts to dimension any further charges? Thanks.

因為很明顯，我認為你們去年也出現了大約 20 個基點的信用風險轉移，我只是想弄清楚各個環節，以便評估任何進一步的費用？謝謝。

Thank you, Joe, for the question. I'm going to make a couple of comments, but ask Pam to address your question. The first one is to reiterate the fact that we are comfortable with our position in Hong Kong CRE. We've explained the area of specific focus and we've captured the outlook for 2025 in our revised ECL target. Pam, you may want to elaborate on that one.

謝謝你的提問，喬。我打算說幾點，但請帕姆來回答你的問題。首先要重申的是，我們對自身在香港商業地產領域的地位感到滿意。我們已經闡明了重點關注領域，並在修訂後的 ECL 目標中展望了 2025 年的前景。帕姆，你可能需要詳細解釋這一點。

Yes. Thanks. So a really good question. So firstly, part of the charge we said is the model change and the model changes happen periodically, and that comes -- that's only $100 million. The key thing that we look at every quarter, and we looked at the last year-end as well as we look at, obviously, valuations.

是的。謝謝。這確實是個好問題。首先，我們所說的費用的一部分是模型變更，而模型變更會定期發生，這部分費用——只有 1 億美元。我們每季都會關注的關鍵事項，以及去年年底的情況，當然還有估值。

Now valuations is an ongoing process. You see the valuations in terms of orderly valuations. But the valuations also get impacted even on the performing book. when you see some distressed valuations. And already, we had started considering distressed valuations as part of our ECL charge for the year-end by giving some probability for those distressed valuation and this lag on a performing book because the book is still performing on the valuations as it comes as part of our credit processes, we do a read across to the book.

如今，估值是一個持續的過程。你看到的是有序估值。但即使是業績良好的股票，其估值也會受到影響，尤其是當出現一些估值過低的情況時。而且，我們已經開始考慮不良資產估值作為年末預期信用損失費用的一部分，透過給這些不良資產估值一定的機率，以及對正常帳簿的滯後性（因為帳簿仍在根據估值進行評估，這是我們信貸流程的一部分，我們會對帳簿進行交叉解讀）。

Now generally, the LTVs have remained strong. So just to say the LTVs, which have gone higher than 70% is still a very small portion of the book. But while we have focused on this we are, as in every quarter, looking at the rest of the book. The real challenge continues with the oversupply in the office space. Now it's not across everywhere the same.

目前來看，LTV（長期價值汽車）市場整體表現依然強勁。所以，需要說明的是，LTV（貸款價值比）已經超過 70%，但仍然只佔貸款總額的一小部分。但是，在我們專注於此的同時，我們也會像每季一樣，繼續專注於本書的其他部分。真正的挑戰依然在於辦公空間的供應過剩。現在情況並非處處都一樣。

It depends upon the location of the office space. It depends upon the quality of the building. Has it been new refurb or otherwise. So that's the piece that we also then bear in mind when we look at the valuation shift to say, is there any greater calibration or divergence from the kind of property, the use of property and the overall liquidity in the market in terms of actual transactions has been relatively low.

這取決於辦公室的地理位置。這取決於建築物的品質。是全新翻新機還是其他型號？所以，我們在考慮估值變化時，也會考慮到這一點，即是否存在更大的校準或偏差，這取決於房產類型、房產用途以及市場整體流動性（就實際交易而言）是否相對較低。

Makes sense thank you.

明白了，謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Gurpreet Singh Sahi, Goldman Sachs.

古普雷特·辛格·薩希，高盛。

Thank you for taking my question. I have two, please. First is on FX. Good to see strong growth all across nonbanking NII, but you called out good growth. But I wonder, we've seen some unusual currency volatility in the quarter. Did that not lead us to generate like above normal FX growth and at 7%, do you call it above normal?

感謝您回答我的問題。我要兩份。首先是FX頻道。很高興看到非銀行淨利息收入全面強勁成長，但你特別強調了良好的成長。但我很疑惑，本季我們看到了一些不尋常的貨幣波動。這難道沒有讓我們獲得高於正常的外匯成長嗎？ 7% 的成長，你覺得高於正常水平算嗎？

So what we're just thinking of what were our clients' feedback, where the churning portfolio is more hedging, et cetera, during the quarter on FX? And then -- because I see it's Q-on-Q also it's down. And then on loan growth is the second part. We see some pickup in the UK book.

所以，我們正在考慮客戶的回饋，例如本季外匯交易中，頻繁變動的投資組合是否更多地用於對沖等？然後——因為我看到它也是 Q-on-Q，所以它下降了。其次是貸款成長。我們看到英國圖書市場出現了一些回溫跡象。

But then in Hong Kong, China region, with the lowered interest rates are we seeing client demand come back in for loan growth? And how do we see the outlook there? Thank you.

但是，在香港和中國地區，隨著利率的降低，我們是否看到客戶對貸款成長的需求回升了呢？那麼，我們如何看待那裡的前景？謝謝。

Gurpreet, thank you for your two questions. I'll take the first question and make a comment on loan growth and Pam can explain a little bit the outlook in the various segments of the world.

Gurpreet，謝謝你的兩個問題。我先回答第一個問題，談談貸款成長情況，Pam 可以稍微解釋一下世界各地不同領域的展望。

So yes, FX has benefited from increased customer activity due to higher volatility. This is something that is difficult to forecast. But what is important to note is that it remains one of our core capabilities in transaction banking, and we remain one of the top players, I would say, top two global players in the space. And therefore, we do have a leadership market share in this space and capture client activity. It's difficult to forecast what kind of volatility we may see going forward in foreign exchange, but we will continue being one of the main counterparties to support our customers' hedging activities.

所以，是的，外匯市場受益於市場波動加劇帶來的客戶活躍度提升。這是很難預測的事情。但值得注意的是，它仍然是我們交易銀行業務的核心能力之一，而且我們仍然是該領域頂尖的參與者之一，我認為是全球排名前二的參與者。因此，我們在這個領域擁有領先的市場份額，並能吸引客戶。很難預測未來外匯市場會出現什麼樣的波動，但我們將繼續作為主要交易對手之一，以支持客戶的對沖活動。

So on loan growth, I was actually particularly encouraged with the UK commercial banking corporate loan growth. It's early to call it a trend, $3.5 billion growth, but it is definitely a green shoot in the space where it has been subdued for many quarters now. So we have seen the UK credit book remained very resilient through the last few years, but we haven't seen it grown. And hopefully, with more clarity about the UK and the tariffs related to the UK, we can see more investments taken through.

因此，就貸款成長而言，我特別對英國商業銀行企業貸款的成長感到鼓舞。現在就稱之為趨勢還為時過早，35億美元的成長，無疑是該領域一個復甦的跡象，而該領域已經連續多個季度處於低迷狀態。因此，我們看到英國信貸規模在過去幾年中保持了很強的韌性，但我們沒有看到它成長。希望隨著英國及其相關關稅情況更加明朗，我們能夠看到更多投資進入英國市場。

The additional comment I would like to make about the UK specifically, and then hand over to Pam, is that, we're very encouraged by the UK having also moved at pace in their trade negotiations with trade agreements now concluded with the US, with the EU since Brexit and then more recently, with India, which is a historic trade deal where we have a very vibrant business corridor going on between the UK and India, and we're frankly very, very excited about supporting our customers along this corridor kind of realize the benefits in their businesses.

關於英國，我還要補充一點，然後把發言權交給帕姆。我們非常欣慰地看到，英國在貿易談判中也取得了長足的進步，目前已與美國、脫歐後的歐盟以及最近與印度達成了貿易協定。其中，與印度的貿易協定具有歷史意義，它在英國和印度之間建立了一條充滿活力的商業走廊。坦白說，我們非常高興能夠支持我們沿線的客戶，幫助他們實現業務發展中的各種益處。

Thank you, Gurpreet, for the question. So just to make a comment on FX, of course, there's a transactional nature to FX, but we are very engaged with our customers, and we have been capturing flows well. And at the back of that, we are accelerating our investment in this business to grow medium term so that we can best be best positioned to support our customers. From a loan growth perspective, so in Q1, we saw growth in Asia ex Hong Kong, China. And that's been stable, but it's sort of moving along and obviously, Q2, given some of the tariff news people were slower in terms of making their decisions.

謝謝 Gurpreet 的提問。所以，關於外匯交易，當然，外匯交易具有交易性質，但我們與客戶的互動非常積極，並且我們一直很好地掌握著資金流動。在此背景下，我們正在加快對該業務的投資，以實現中期成長，從而更好地為客戶提供支援。從貸款成長的角度來看，第一季我們在除香港和中國以外的亞洲地區看到了成長。而且這種情況一直很穩定，但它也在不斷發展，顯然，第二季度，考慮到一些關稅方面的消息，人們在做出決定方面速度有所放緩。

In the UK, our growth is good, but also our focus was very much across sectors, which were growing. So whether it's in the infrastructure space and so on. So we were well focused, and that held us well. We are doing the same engagement level on our customers across the globe. And from a growth perspective at the back of the interest rates coming down, the other factor, which is very important, and we've called it out before, is macro uncertainty.

在英國，我們的成長勢頭良好，但我們的關注點也非常廣泛，涵蓋了各個成長的行業。所以無論是在基礎設施領域等等。所以我們目標明確，這也讓我們保持了良好的狀態。我們在全球範圍內對客戶都保持著相同的互動水平。從成長的角度來看，除了利率下降之外，另一個非常重要的因素（我們之前也提到過）是宏觀經濟的不確定性。

So when this macro uncertainty continues, the CapEx decisions are delayed. However, from a working capital, we see some early engagement where people are looking at how they shift and change some of their business models and so on. What I do want to say is that overall, where we have good benefit still coming through from an NII line is deposit base, which is, as I've called out, up sort of $83 billion year-on-year.

因此，當這種宏觀經濟的不確定性持續存在時，資本支出決策就會被推遲。然而，從營運資金的角度來看，我們看到一些早期參與者正在考慮如何轉變和改變他們的一些商業模式等等。我想說的是，總體而言，淨利息收入（NII）帶來的良好收益仍然體現在存款基礎上，正如我之前提到的，存款基礎同比增長了約 830 億美元。

So that stays a very strong component as part of our NII business. And I would say from an FX perspective, the other thing to bear in mind is we're seeing strong flows into Hong Kong, through the depressed HIBOR that is another factor to balance overall in our outlook.

因此，它仍然是我們淨投資收入業務中非常重要的組成部分。從外匯角度來看，需要記住的另一點是，儘管香港銀行同業拆息（HIBOR）低迷，但資金仍大量流入香港，這是我們整體展望中需要平衡的另一個因素。

Very good, Gurpreet. Thank you very much for your question.

非常好，古爾普雷特。非常感謝您的提問。

Katherine Lei, JPMorgan.

Katherine Lei，摩根大通。

Hi, good morning. Thank you, Katherine. So let me then ask your third question. I'll ask Pam to address the first two. So today, this is available to HSBC's clients and any white-listed clients' clients or clients counterparties. But ultimately, they need to go through the HSBC standards for know your client financial crime checks among other kind of checks.

您好，早安。謝謝你，凱瑟琳。那麼，請容許我問你的第三個問題。我會請帕姆來解答前兩個問題。所以今天，匯豐銀行的客戶以及任何列入白名單的客戶的客戶或客戶的交易對手都可以使用這項服務。但最終，他們需要接受匯豐銀行的客戶盡職調查標準，包括金融犯罪檢查等。

So the capabilities will be extended, but will be expanded to who in a way where we remain very comfortable with the KYC considerations to be able to onboard them as clients or future clients. We are looking, obviously, on stable coin developments. We believe it is still early to understand how some of these stable coin issuers are able to the wider client base. Some of them are, but obviously, the regulations is going to dictate for those who will be effectively white-listed what these requirements are, and we will evaluate accordingly over the next few weeks and months as this is developed.

因此，我們將擴展服務範圍，但同時也擴大服務對象範圍，以便我們能夠以完全符合 KYC 要求的方式，將他們納入客戶或潛在客戶的行列。我們顯然在關注穩定幣的發展。我們認為，現在要了解這些穩定幣發行商如何拓展更廣泛的客戶群還為時過早。有些確實如此，但顯然，相關規定將會明確哪些人將被列入白名單，我們將在接下來的幾週和幾個月裡，隨著規定的製定，對此進行相應的評估。

Your first question is related to BoCom. And your second question is related to the restructuring-related costs and whether they will be treated as notable or material notable. Pam will address both, but let me say one thing about BoCom is we have ample room for any potential future impairments, whether they happen or not before this even comes near affecting CET1 or CET1 ratio or distribution capabilities.

你的第一個問題與商銀行有關。你的第二個問題與重組相關的成本有關，以及這些成本是否會被視為重大成本或重要成本。Pam 將會談到這兩點，但關於商銀行，我想說的是，我們有充足的空間來應對任何潛在的未來減值，無論這些減值是否發生，甚至在它接近影響 CET1 或 CET1 比率或分銷能力之前。

Pam can talk through that. Thank you.

帕姆可以就此進行溝通。謝謝。

Thank you, Katherine. So let me then ask your third question. I'll ask Pam to address the first two. So today, this is available to HSBC's clients and any white-listed clients' clients or clients counterparties. But ultimately, they need to go through the HSBC standards for know your client financial crime checks among other kind of checks.

謝謝你，凱瑟琳。那麼，請容許我問你的第三個問題。我會請帕姆來解答前兩個問題。所以今天，匯豐銀行的客戶以及任何列入白名單的客戶的客戶或客戶的交易對手都可以使用這項服務。但最終，他們需要接受匯豐銀行的客戶盡職調查標準，包括金融犯罪檢查等。

So the capabilities will be extended, but will be expanded to who in a way where we remain very comfortable with the KYC considerations to be able to onboard them as clients or future clients. We are looking, obviously, on stable coin developments. We believe it is still early to understand how some of these stable coin issuers are able to the wider client base. Some of them are, but obviously, the regulations is going to dictate for those who will be effectively white-listed what these requirements are, and we will evaluate accordingly over the next few weeks and months as this is developed.

因此，我們將擴展服務範圍，但同時也擴大服務對象範圍，以便我們能夠以完全符合 KYC 要求的方式，將他們納入客戶或潛在客戶的行列。我們顯然在關注穩定幣的發展。我們認為，現在要了解這些穩定幣發行商如何拓展更廣泛的客戶群還為時過早。有些確實如此，但顯然，相關規定將會明確哪些人將被列入白名單，我們將在接下來的幾週和幾個月裡，隨著規定的製定，對此進行相應的評估。

Your first question is related to BoCom. And your second question is related to the restructuring-related costs and whether they will be treated as notable or material notable. Pam will address both, but let me say one thing about BoCom is we have ample room for any potential future impairments, whether they happen or not before this even comes near affecting CET1 or CET1 ratio or distribution capabilities. Pam can talk through that.

你的第一個問題與商銀行有關。你的第二個問題與重組相關的成本有關，以及這些成本是否會被視為重大成本或重要成本。Pam 將會談到這兩點，但關於商銀行，我想說的是，我們有充足的空間來應對任何潛在的未來減值，無論這些減值是否發生，甚至在它接近影響 CET1 或 CET1 比率或分銷能力之前。帕姆可以就此進行溝通。

Yes. Thank you, Katherine. So we have $14 billion of threshold deductions, Slide 33 of the deck. And on Slide 28, we give you more details on BoCom, including the market value in the footnote, which is the $13 billion. So as George says, even if there was an impairment to market value, it will have no material impact on CET1.

是的。謝謝你，凱瑟琳。因此，我們有 140 億美元的門檻扣除額，請參閱簡報第 33 頁。在第 28 張幻燈片中，我們提供了有關交通銀行的更多詳細信息，包括腳註中的市值，即 130 億美元。正如喬治所說，即使市場價值有所減值，也不會對 CET1 產生實質影響。

And in terms of restructuring costs, they are a notable item, but they're not a material notable item for the dividend.

就重組成本而言，這是一項值得注意的項目，但對於股息而言，這不是一項重大項目。

That ends today's Q&A. And now I will hand back to George for closing remarks.

今天的問答環節到此結束。現在我將把發言權交還給喬治，請他作總結發言。

Well, thank you, everyone. I really want to take this opportunity to thank you for your questions. Alistair and the Investor Relations team are available for any follow-up questions. Meanwhile, Pam and I look forward to speaking with you again to please enjoy the rest of the day. Thank you very much.

謝謝大家。我很想藉此機會感謝你們提出的問題。如有任何後續問題，請聯絡 Alistair 和投資者關係團隊。同時，我和帕姆期待再次與您聯繫，並祝您今天餘下的時間愉快。非常感謝。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for joining today's webinar. You may now disconnect your line.

感謝各位女士、先生參加今天的網路研討會。現在您可以斷開線路了。