FormFactor Inc (FORM) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Thank you, and welcome everyone to FormFactor's first-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. On today's call are Chief Executive Officer, Mike Slessor, and Chief Financial Officer, Shai Shahar. Before we begin, Stan Finkelstein, the company's VP of Investor Relations, will remind you of some important information.

謝謝大家，歡迎大家參加 FormFactor 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。參加今天電話會議的有執行長 Mike Slessor 和財務長 Shai Shahar。在我們開始之前，公司投資者關係副總裁 Stan Finkelstein 將提醒您一些重要資訊。

Thank you. Today, the company will be discussing GAAP P&L results and some important non-GAAP results intended to supplement your understanding of the company's financials. Reconciliations of GAAP to non-GAAP measures and other financial information are available in the press release issued today by the company and on the Investor Relations section of our website.

謝謝。今天，該公司將討論 GAAP 損益結果和一些重要的非 GAAP 結果，旨在補充您對公司財務狀況的了解。公認會計準則 (GAAP) 與非公認會計準則 (Non-GAAP) 指標的對帳及其他財務資訊可在本公司今天發布的新聞稿中以及我們網站的投資者關係部分找到。

Today's discussion contains forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. Examples of such forward looking statements include those with respect to the projections of financial and business performance, future macroeconomic and geopolitical conditions, the benefits of acquisitions and investments, anticipated industry trends, potential disruptions in our supply chain, the impacts of regulatory changes, including tariffs and changes in export controls, the recent US-China trade restrictions, the anticipated demand for products, our ability to develop, produce, and sell products and the assumptions upon which such statements are based.

今天的討論包含聯邦證券法所定義的前瞻性陳述。此類前瞻性陳述的例子包括有關財務和業務表現的預測、未來宏觀經濟和地緣政治條件、收購和投資的收益、預期的行業趨勢、我們供應鏈中的潛在中斷、監管變化的影響（包括關稅和出口管制變化）、最近的中美貿易限制、預期的產品需求、我們開發、生產和銷售產品的能力以及此類陳述所基於的假設。

These statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed during this call. Information on risk factors and uncertainties is contained in our most recent filing on Form 10-K with the SEC for the fiscal year ended December 28, 2024, and in our other SEC filings, which are available on the SEC's website at www.sec.gov, and in our press release issued today. Forward-looking statements are made as of today, April 30, 2025, and we assume no obligation to update them.

這些聲明受到已知和未知的風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與本次電話會議中表達的結果有重大差異。有關風險因素和不確定性的資訊包含在我們最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的截至 2024 年 12 月 28 日財政年度的 10-K 表格文件中，以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中，這些文件可在美國證券交易委員會網站 www.sec.gov 上查閱，以及我們今天發布的新聞稿中。前瞻性陳述截至 2025 年 4 月 30 日做出，我們不承擔更新這些陳述的義務。

With that, we will now turn the call over to FormFactor's CEO, Mike Slessor.

現在，我們將把電話轉交給 FormFactor 的執行長 Mike Slessor。

Thanks, everyone, for joining us. As expected, FormFactor reported sequentially lower first-quarter revenue and profitability due to anticipated reductions in demand for both DRAM probe cards and systems. In the current second quarter, we expect to deliver double-digit sequential revenue growth with increases across all our major served markets and segments and corresponding increases in gross margin and earnings per share.

感謝大家加入我們。正如預期的那樣，由於 DRAM 探測卡和系統的需求預計減少，FormFactor 報告第一季營收和獲利能力將季減。在目前第二季度，我們預計收入將實現兩位數的連續成長，我們所有主要服務的市場和部門都將實現成長，毛利率和每股盈餘也將相應增加。

This anticipated second-quarter revenue growth is driven primarily by hyperscalers continued investments in generative AI, which is producing increased demand for high bandwidth memory DRAM probe cards and co-packaged optics test systems, paired with moderate growth in foundry and logic probe cards for new chip designs in important high unit volume end markets, specifically PCs and mobile handsets.

預計第二季營收成長主要得益於超大規模企業對生成性人工智慧的持續投資，這導致對高頻寬記憶體 DRAM 探針卡和共封裝光學測試系統的需求增加，同時在重要的高單位產量終端市場（特別是個人電腦和行動手機）中，用於新晶片設計的代工和邏輯探針卡也出現溫和成長。

We see no indication that these second-quarter demand increases are driven by tariff-related acceleration of orders. If anything, our sequential growth outlook is tempered by the uncertainty created by the current tariff situation, and Shai will provide estimates of both revenue and gross margin reductions from specific tariffs.

我們沒有看到任何跡象表明第二季需求的成長是由關稅相關的訂單加速推動的。無論如何，我們的連續成長前景受到當前關稅狀況造成的不確定性的影響，Shai 將提供特定關稅對收入和毛利率下降的估計。

As a reminder, we manufacture approximately 80% of our revenue in The United States and therefore face a direct cost impact from tariffs on goods we import from non-US suppliers. In addition, when we ship our products to countries such as China that have tariffs applied to goods that originate in The US, our US-manufactured products now bear a higher cost for our customers. This is causing some customers to work with us to reevaluate their supply chains and cross-border logistics processes.

提醒一下，我們約 80% 的收入來自美國，因此從非美國供應商進口的商品關稅會給我們帶來直接的成本影響。此外，當我們將產品運送到中國等對原產於美國的商品徵收關稅的國家時，我們在美國製造的產品現在會為客戶帶來更高的成本。這促使一些客戶與我們合作重新評估他們的供應鏈和跨國物流流程。

We're taking a wait-and-see approach as we evaluate various tariff scenarios before committing to any significant changes to our manufacturing footprint and supply chain. The notable exception is China, where recent tariff increases on top of escalating US export controls have driven a continued reduction in our revenue from that region. This further validates our proactive decision in 2023 to divest our China operations and to focus on other opportunities in regions.

在對我們的製造足跡和供應鏈做出任何重大改變之前，我們正在採取觀望態度，評估各種關稅情境。值得注意的例外是中國，最近中國關稅的上調以及美國出口管制的升級導致我們從該地區獲得的收入持續減少。這進一步驗證了我們在 2023 年做出的主動決定，即剝離中國業務並專注於其他地區的機會。

Now let's turn to market and segment level details. In DRAM probe cards, we experienced the expected first quarter reduction in revenue from the record level of the fourth quarter. This was due primarily to lower non-HBM demand caused by further tightening of export controls, which limited our ability to ship probe cards for advanced DRAM designs to China.

現在讓我們來看看市場和細分層面的細節。在 DRAM 探測卡方面，我們第一季的營收與第四季的創紀錄水準相比有所下降。這主要是由於出口管制進一步收緊導致非 HBM 需求下降，限制了我們向中國運送先進 DRAM 設計探針卡的能力。

In the current second quarter, we expect DRAM probe card revenue to return to record levels with sequential growth in HBM applications layered on top of steady demand in DDR5 and LPDDR5 applications. The strength in our HBM probe card demand is driven by three factors. One, continued shipments of probe cards for existing HBM3E designs running in high volume.

在目前第二季度，我們預計 DRAM 探測卡收入將恢復到創紀錄水平，HBM 應用將實現連續成長，而 DDR5 和 LPDDR5 應用的需求也將保持穩定。我們對 HBM 探針卡的需求強勁是由三個因素驅動的。一是繼續提供大量運行的現有 HBM3E 設計探針卡。

Two, increasing shipments for new HBM4 designs, which as you've heard recently from our customers are being sampled and are expected to begin ramping in volume in the second half of 2025.

第二是增加新型 HBM4 設計的出貨量，正如您最近從我們的客戶那裡聽到的那樣，我們正在進行樣品測試，預計將在 2025 年下半年開始大量生產。

And three, a growing contribution from a second HBM Probe Cards customer as we further diversify and grow our leadership position in HBM applications. HBM still comprises a small but growing portion of the total DRAM bits produced by our customers.

第三，隨著我們進一步多元化發展並加強在 HBM 應用領域的領導地位，第二個 HBM 探針卡客戶的貢獻也不斷增長。HBM 在我們的客戶生產的 DRAM 總容量中所佔比例仍然很小，但正在不斷增長。

However, because of their stack die architecture with eight, twelve, or even 16 individual DRAM die, HBM represents a much larger portion of the total silicon area and wafers produced.

然而，由於 HBM 的堆疊晶片架構具有八個、十二個甚至 16 個獨立的 DRAM 晶片，因此 HBM 佔據了總矽面積和生產的晶圓的很大一部分。

Further, because HBM has increased test intensity, which expands the number of probe cards required for good die out, and higher test complexity, which raises the performance requirements of each probe card, HBM represents a significant part of overall test and probe card spending by DRAM customers.

此外，由於HBM增加了測試強度，從而擴大了良好裸片所需的探針卡數量，並且提高了測試複雜性，從而提高了每個探針卡的性能要求，因此HBM佔據了DRAM客戶整體測試和探針卡支出的很大一部分。

A recent third-party estimate placed HBM probe card intensity at almost 1%. That is, customers are spending nearly 1% of their HBM revenues on probe cards, a probe card intensity double that of the broader semiconductor industry. We believe these increases in test intensity and test complexity will continue to produce both market share and profitability gains for FormFactor as HBM and advanced packaging continue to grow, driven by the accelerating adoption of generative AI.

最近的第三方估計顯示 HBM 探針卡強度接近 1%。也就是說，客戶將其 HBM 收入的近 1% 花在探針卡上，探針卡強度是整個半導體產業的兩倍。我們相信，隨著 HBM 和先進封裝在生成式 AI 加速採用的推動下持續增長，測試強度和測試複雜性的增加將繼續為 FormFactor 帶來市場份額和盈利能力的增長。

Shifting to the foundry logic probe card market. Consistent with our outlook, first quarter demand in this market was essentially comparable to the fourth quarter. In the current second quarter, we're forecasting stronger foundry and logic demand driven by typical seasonal ramps of major mobile application processor designs and a family of client microprocessor designs.

轉向代工邏輯探針卡市場。與我們的展望一致，該市場第一季的需求與第四季度基本相當。在目前第二季度，我們預測，受主要行動應用處理器設計和一系列客戶端微處理器設計的典型季節性成長的推動，代工和邏輯需求將會更加強勁。

As with HBM and DRAM, advanced packaging continues to drive both higher test intensity and test foundry and logic market with a variety of new and challenging technical requirements for testing high-performance compute chips. Along with FormFactor's proprietary MEMS probes and high-throughput automated assembly robots, a key enabling component for advanced foundry and logic probe cards is complex multilayer organic substrates.

與HBM和DRAM一樣，先進封裝繼續推動更高的測試強度以及測試代工廠和邏輯市場，並對測試高效能運算晶片提出了各種新的、具有挑戰性的技術要求。除了 FormFactor 專有的 MEMS 探針和高通量自動組裝機器人外，先進代工和邏輯探針卡的關鍵支援組件是複雜的多層有機基板。

In the first quarter, together with MBK Partners, we completed the acquisition of FICT Limited, the world's leading supplier of these multilayer organic substrates. This acquisition solidifies FormFactor's access to this important enabling technology and does so in a more capital-efficient, lower-risk, and faster way than either an outright acquisition or internal development have some of our competitors have chosen to pursue.

第一季度，我們與MBK Partners共同完成了對全球領先的多層有機基板供應商FICT Limited的收購。此次收購鞏固了 FormFactor 對這項重要支援技術的使用權，與我們的一些競爭對手選擇的直接收購或內部開發相比，它具有更高的資本效率、更低的風險和更快速的速度。

Returning to tariffs for a moment, as I mentioned earlier, we have no specific indications that this sequentially stronger foundry and logic outlook is due to tariff-related pull-ins. And in fact, since probe cards have short lead times and are a device-specific consumable specific to each individual customer chip design, it's unlikely that customers would run the risk of having excess probe card inventory across numerous chip designs only to mitigate a potential future tariff.

回到關稅問題，正如我之前提到的，我們沒有具體跡象表明這種連續走強的鑄造和邏輯前景是由於關稅相關的拉動。事實上，由於探針卡的交貨時間很短，並且是針對每個客戶晶片設計而專門設計的專用設備耗材，因此客戶不太可能為了減輕未來的潛在關稅而冒險在眾多晶片設計中擁有過多的探針卡庫存。

Turning to our Systems segment. The reduced first quarter revenue was consistent with our outlook, and we now expect moderate sequential growth in the current quarter. System growth is driven by our customers' rapid innovation in areas like quantum computing and high-performance compute with development programs that require leading-edge measurement systems like our CM300 Lab Probers and IQ3000 cryogenic probers.

轉向我們的系統部分。第一季營收的減少與我們的預期一致，我們目前預計本季營收將實現溫和的環比成長。系統成長是由我們的客戶在量子運算和高效能運算等領域的快速創新所推動的，這些領域的開發專案需要先進的測量系統，例如我們的 CM300 實驗室探測器和 IQ3000 低溫探測器。

co-packaged optics or CPO using silicon photonics is one of the key drivers of the expected second quarter and longer-term growth in the systems business. Several of our customers have recently announced the insertion of CPO into their product roadmaps to take advantage of its compelling power and speed advantages in data center applications.

採用矽光子學的共封裝光學元件或 CPO 是系統業務預計第二季及長期成長的主要驅動力之一。我們的幾位客戶最近宣布將 CPO 納入其產品路線圖，以利用其在資料中心應用中強大的功能和速度優勢。

Our multi-year collaboration with these customers has produced FormFactor systems, software and optical probes that rapidly and accurately test the photonic IC or PIC chips that are the heart of the co-packaged optics engine.

我們與這些客戶多年的合作產生了 FormFactor 系統、軟體和光學探頭，可以快速且準確地測試作為共封裝光學引擎核心的光子 IC 或 PIC 晶片。

This, in turn, has strengthened our leadership position in the silicon photonic lab space, where we have an installed base of over 100 systems worldwide. We're now extending that leadership to the production arena and in the second quarter plan to ship multiple systems to a single customer to support pilot production of the world's first high-volume co-packaged optics photonic integrated circuit.

這反過來又加強了我們在矽光子實驗室領域的領導地位，我們在全球擁有超過 100 個系統的安裝基礎。我們現在將這種領導地位擴展到生產領域，並計劃在第二季度向單一客戶運送多個系統，以支援世界上第一個大批量共封裝光學光子積體電路的試生產。

Although market estimates vary widely at this early stage of production and adoption, we expect CPO to be a significant mid-term growth driver for FormFactor systems and probe card businesses.

儘管在生產和採用的早期階段，市場估計差異很大，但我們預計 CPO 將成為 FormFactor 系統和探測卡業務的重要中期成長動力。

In closing, we continue to strengthen FormFactor's industry and competitive position, both through development of innovative and differentiated products and through partnerships with leaders like FICT, even as we deal with tariff headwinds. These internal and external initiatives are especially important and exciting as we meet the challenges of increased test intensity and higher test complexity associated with the adoption of advanced packaging in applications like high bandwidth memory and co-packaged optics.

最後，即使面臨關稅阻力，我們仍將透過開發創新和差異化產品以及與 FICT 等領導者建立合作夥伴關係，繼續加強 FormFactor 的產業和競爭地位。這些內部和外部措施尤其重要且令人興奮，因為我們面臨著在高頻寬記憶體和共封裝光學元件等應用中採用先進封裝所帶來的測試強度增加和測試複雜性提高的挑戰。

Successful execution of these and other initiatives will allow us to achieve and then surpass our target model that delivers $2 of non-GAAP earnings per share on $850 million of revenue.

成功執行這些措施和其他舉措將使我們能夠實現並超越我們的目標模式，即在 8.5 億美元的營收上實現每股 2 美元的非公認會計準則收益。

Shai, over to you.

Shai，交給你了。

Thank you, Mike, and good afternoon. As you saw in our press release, Q1 revenues were $171.4 million, $1.4 million above the midpoint of our outlook range, and non-GAAP gross margin of 39.2% was near the high end of the range. This, together with OpEx slightly lower than the midpoint of the outlook, resulted in a non-GAAP EPS of $0.23 at the high end of the outlook range. First quarter revenues decreased 9.6% from the fourth quarter and increased 1.6% year over year from our Q1 24 revenues.

謝謝你，麥克，下午好。正如您在我們的新聞稿中看到的，第一季的收入為 1.714 億美元，比我們預期範圍的中點高出 140 萬美元，非 GAAP 毛利率為 39.2%，接近該範圍的高端。再加上略低於預期中點的營運支出，導致非 GAAP 每股收益達到 0.23 美元，處於預期範圍的高端。第一季營收較第四季下降 9.6%，較 2024 年第一季營收年增 1.6%。

Probe card segment revenues were $136.5 million in the first quarter, a decrease of $13.8 million or 9.2% from the fourth quarter. The decrease was driven by lower DRAM and Flash revenues, partially offset by higher foundry and logic revenues.

探測卡部門第一季營收為 1.365 億美元，比第四季減少 1,380 萬美元，降幅為 9.2%。下降是由於 DRAM 和快閃記憶體收入下降所致，但代工和邏輯收入增加部分抵消了這一影響。

System segment revenues were $34.8 million in Q1, a $4.4 million decrease from the fourth quarter and comprised 20.3% of total company revenues, down from 20.7% in the fourth quarter. Within the Probe card segment, Q1 Foundry and Logic revenues were $85 million, a $2 million or 2.4% increase from the fourth quarter. Foundry and Logic revenues increased to 49.8% of total company revenues compared to 44% in the fourth quarter.

第一季系統部門營收為 3,480 萬美元，較第四季減少 440 萬美元，占公司總營收的 20.3%，低於第四季的 20.7%。在探針卡領域，第一季代工和邏輯收入為 8,500 萬美元，比第四季增加 200 萬美元或 2.4%。晶圓代工和邏輯電路收入占公司總收入的比例從第四季的 44% 成長至 49.8%。

DRAM revenues were $48.9 million in Q1, $14.4 million or 22. 8% lower than the record fourth quarter and decreased to 28.5% of total quarterly revenues as compared to 33.4% in the fourth quarter. Within DRAM, HBM revenues decreased $3 million from $32 million in Q4 to $29 million in the first quarter.

第一季 DRAM 營收為 4,890 萬美元，比創紀錄的第四季低 1,440 萬美元或 22.8%，佔季總營收的 28.5%，而第四季為 33.4%。在 DRAM 領域，HBM 營收從第四季的 3,200 萬美元減少 300 萬美元至第一季的 2,900 萬美元。

Flash revenues of $2.4 million in Q1 were down $1.3 million from the fourth quarter and were 1.4% of total revenues in Q1 as compared to 1.9% in Q4. GAAP gross margin for the first quarter was 37.7% as compared to 38.8% in Q4. Cost of revenues included $2.6 million of GAAP to non-GAAP reconciling items, which we outlined in our press release issued today and in the reconciliation table available in the Investor Relations section of our website.

第一季的 Flash 營收為 240 萬美元，比第四季下降了 130 萬美元，佔第一季總營收的 1.4%，而第四季為 1.9%。第一季 GAAP 毛利率為 37.7%，第四季為 38.8%。收入成本包括 260 萬美元的 GAAP 與非 GAAP 調節項目，我們在今天發布的新聞稿中以及我們網站投資者關係部分提供的調整表中對此進行了概述。

On a non-GAAP basis, gross margin for the first quarter was 39.2%, one percentage points lower than the 40.2% non-GAAP gross margin in Q4 and 1.2 percentage points above the midpoint of our outlook range. The decrease as compared to Q4 is driven by lower non-GAAP gross margins in the Probe-card segment.

以非公認會計準則計算，第一季毛利率為 39.2%，比第四季 40.2% 的非公認會計準則毛利率低一個百分點，比我們預期範圍的中點高出 1.2 個百分點。與第四季相比，銷售額的下降是由於探針卡部門的非 GAAP 毛利率較低所致。

The increase as compared to the midpoint of our outlook range is attributable mostly to a more favorable product mix. Our Probe card segment gross margin was 37.8% in the first quarter, a decrease of 2.2 percentage points compared to 40% in Q4. The decrease from Q4 was mainly a result of decreasing revenue. Our Q1 systems segment gross margin was 44.5%, an increase of 3.7 percentage points compared to 40.8% gross margin in the fourth quarter.

與我們的展望範圍中點相比，這一增長主要歸因於更有利的產品組合。我們探針卡部門第一季的毛利率為37.8%，與第四季的40%相比下降了2.2個百分點。與第四季相比，下降主要是由於收入減少。我們第一季系統部門的毛利率為44.5%，較第四季的40.8%毛利率成長了3.7個百分點。

The increase from Q4, despite the decrease in revenues, was mainly a result of a more favorable product mix and lower manufacturing spend. Our GAAP operating expenses were $61.3 million for the first quarter as compared to $66 million in the fourth quarter. Non-GAAP operating expenses for the first quarter were $50.2 million or 29.3% of revenue as compared with $55.2 million or 29.1% of revenues in Q4.

儘管收入下降，但較第四季仍有所成長，這主要是由於產品組合更加有利以及製造支出降低。我們第一季的 GAAP 營運費用為 6,130 萬美元，而第四季為 6,600 萬美元。第一季非公認會計準則營運費用為 5,020 萬美元，佔營收的 29.3%，而第四季為 5,520 萬美元，佔營收的 29.1%。

The $5 million decrease relates mainly to lower performance-based compensation and facility expenses, partially offset by higher costs from annual benefits you set at the beginning of the year. Company non-cash expenses for the first quarter included $9.8 million for stock-based compensation, $0.7 million for the amortization of acquisition-related intangibles and depreciation of $8.2 million, all similar to the fourth quarter.

500 萬美元的減少主要與績效薪酬和設施費用的降低有關，但被年初設定的年度福利成本的增加部分抵消。該公司第一季非現金支出包括 980 萬美元的股票薪酬、70 萬美元的收購相關無形資產攤銷以及 820 萬美元的折舊，均與第四季度持平。

GAAP operating income was $3.3 million for Q1 as compared to the GAAP operating income of $7.9 million in Q4. Non-GAAP operating income for the first quarter was $16.9 million compared with $20.9 million in the fourth quarter, a decrease of $4 million or 19.2%. This reduction in operating income is due to lower revenues combined with lower gross margins, partially offset by the decrease in operating expenses.

第一季的 GAAP 營業收入為 330 萬美元，而第四季的 GAAP 營業收入為 790 萬美元。第一季非公認會計準則營業收入為 1,690 萬美元，而第四季為 2,090 萬美元，減少 400 萬美元，降幅為 19.2%。營業收入的減少是由於收入減少和毛利率降低，但營業費用的減少部分抵消了這種影響。

GAAP net income for the first quarter was $6.4 million or $0.08 per fully diluted share, compared with a GAAP net income of $9.7 million or $0.12 per fully diluted share in the previous quarter. The non-GAAP effective tax rate for the first quarter was 14.7%, similar to the fourth quarter and at the low end of the previously communicated range for the year of 14% to 18%. First quarter non-GAAP net income was $18 million or $0.23 per fully diluted share, down from $21.3 million or $0.27 per fully diluted share in Q4.

第一季 GAAP 淨收入為 640 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.08 美元，而上一季 GAAP 淨收入為 970 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.12 美元。第一季非公認會計準則有效稅率為 14.7%，與第四季持平，處於先前公佈的全年 14% 至 18% 區間的低端。第一季非 GAAP 淨收入為 1,800 萬美元或每股攤薄收益 0.23 美元，低於第四季的 2,130 萬美元或每股攤薄收益 0.27 美元。

Moving to the balance sheet and cash flow. We generated free cash flow of $6.3 million in the first quarter compared to $28.8 million in Q4. The main reasons for the decrease were operating cash flows that were $12.4 million lower than in Q4, primarily driven by lower profitability and greater outflows for working capital of $8.2 million and CapEx that was $10.9 million higher than in Q4.

轉到資產負債表和現金流量表。我們第一季產生的自由現金流為 630 萬美元，而第四季為 2880 萬美元。下降的主要原因是經營現金流比第四季度減少了 1240 萬美元，這主要是由於盈利能力下降、營運資金流出增加 820 萬美元以及資本支出比第四季度增加 1090 萬美元。

We invested $18.6 million in capital expenditures during the first quarter compared to $7.7 million in Q4. We continue to expect CapEx of $35 million to $45 million in 2025. And as Mike mentioned, we are evaluating our capital investment plans in light of the evolving geopolitical and tariff environment. At quarter end, total cash and investments were $302 million a decrease of $64 million from Q4.

我們在第一季投資了 1860 萬美元的資本支出，而第四季為 770 萬美元。我們繼續預期 2025 年的資本支出將達到 3,500 萬至 4,500 萬美元。正如麥克所提到的，我們正在根據不斷變化的地緣政治和關稅環境來評估我們的資本投資計劃。截至季末，現金和投資總額為 3.02 億美元，較第四季減少 6,400 萬美元。

The main reasons for the decrease were the $67 million paid for the investment in FICT, partially offset by free cash flows of $6.3 million and cash received from the issuance of common stock in the amount of $21.6 million, including the $15 million received from issuance of 335,000 shares to Adventist.

下降的主要原因是支付了 6,700 萬美元用於投資 FICT，但被 630 萬美元的自由現金流和發行普通股收到的 2,160 萬美元現金部分抵消，其中包括向 Adventist 發行 335,000 股股票收到的 1,500 萬美元。

At the end of the first quarter, we had one term loan with a balance totaling $13 million. Regarding stock buyback, during the first quarter, we used $22.1 million to repurchase shares, utilizing the remaining funds under the existing buyback program.

第一季末，我們有一筆定期貸款，餘額總計 1,300 萬美元。關於股票回購，第一季度，我們使用了 2,210 萬美元回購股票，利用現有回購計畫下的剩餘資金。

We fully utilized this two-year plan approximately seven months ahead of its expiration date, and our Board of Directors approved a new two-year $75 million share repurchase program. The main purpose of our share repurchase program continues to be offset dilution of sovereign’s compensation.

我們在該計劃到期前約七個月充分利用了該計劃，並且我們的董事會批准了一項新的為期兩年、總額為 7500 萬美元的股票回購計劃。我們的股票回購計劃的主要目的仍然是抵消主權薪酬的稀釋。

Turning to the second quarter non-GAAP outlook. We expect a significant increase in revenues in Q2 to $190 million plus or minus $5 million, with an increase in all major markets reserved, most notably in HBM DRAM and Foundry and Logic. This increase in revenues is expected to result in a higher non-GAAP gross margin of 40% plus or minus 150 basis points.

轉向第二季非公認會計準則展望。我們預計第二季的營收將大幅增加至 1.9 億美元（上下浮動 500 萬美元），所有主要市場都將實現成長，最明顯的是 HBM DRAM 以及 Foundry and Logic。預計收入的成長將導致非 GAAP 毛利率上升 40%（正負 150 個基點）。

At the midpoint of this outlook ranges, we expect Q2 operating expenses to be $52 million plus or minus $2 million, approximately $2 million higher than in Q1, mainly due to higher performance-based compensation.

按照這一預期範圍的中點，我們預計第二季度營運費用為 5,200 萬美元，上下浮動 200 萬美元，比第一季度高出約 200 萬美元，這主要是由於基於績效的薪酬增加。

Non-GAAP earnings per fully diluted share for Q2 is expected to be $0.30 plus or minus $0.04. This Q2 outlook includes an estimated mid-single-digit million-dollar reduction in revenues and a one percentage point reduction in gross margins due to the impact of tariffs.

預計第二季非公認會計準則每股攤薄收益為 0.30 美元，上下浮動 0.04 美元。由於關稅的影響，第二季的預期包括收入預計減少數百萬美元，毛利率預計將下降一個百分點。

A reconciliation of our GAAP to non-GAAP Q2 outlook is available on the Investor Relations section of our website and in our press release issued today.

我們的網站的投資者關係部分和我們今天發布的新聞稿中提供了我們對 GAAP 和非 GAAP 第二季度展望的調整。

With that, let's open the call for questions. Operator?

現在，讓我們開始提問。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Charles Shi, Needham and Company.

（操作員指示）Charles Shi，Needham and Company。

Hey. Good afternoon, Mike and Shai. Thanks for taking my questions. I think I want to start with the tariffs since it's very topical. Shai, if I hear you correctly, I think you are not just assuming some reduction in the gross margin because of tariff impact, but did I hear you that you are also baking in some revenue reduction because of tariffs? And if that's the case, can you walk us through how you come up with the quantification you just provided? Thank you.

嘿。下午好，Mike 和 Shai。感謝您回答我的問題。我想先從關稅問題開始，因為它非常具有現實意義。Shai，如果我沒聽錯的話，我認為您不僅僅是假設由於關稅的影響導致毛利率有所下降，而且我是否聽到您還考慮到由於關稅導致的收入有所減少？如果是這樣，您能否向我們介紹一下您是如何得出剛才提供的量化結論的？謝謝。

Of course, yes. I do confirm that what I said in the prepared remarks is that we estimate mid-single-digit million-dollar reduction in revenues. And it comes to how we come up with this number. So, it's obviously a very dynamic and uncertain situation. And the estimated, and I think estimated is a key word here, the estimated mid-single million-dollar reduction across the overall revenue outlook is not tied to specific customers.

當然可以。我確實確認，我在準備好的演講中說過，我們估計收入將減少數百萬美元。這牽涉到我們如何得出這個數字。所以，這顯然是一個非常動態和不確定的情況。我認為「估計」是這裡的關鍵字，預計整體收入前景中百萬美元的減少與特定客戶無關。

But a good example would be China, right, where most of the estimated reduction relates to multinational customers operating outside of the free trade zone and are subject to the current tariffs. We are working closely with our customers and, actually, with our vendors as well, on different scenarios on a case-by-case basis.

但一個很好的例子就是中國，對吧，其中大部分預期的減幅與在自由貿易區外運營的跨國客戶有關，並且受現行關稅的約束。我們正在與客戶以及我們的供應商密切合作，根據具體情況處理不同的情況。

But as we said in the prepared remarks, we are thinking, at least for now, a wait-and-see approach as we evaluate various tariff scenarios before we commit to any significant changes to our manufacturing footprint or supply chain.

但正如我們在準備好的演講中所說的那樣，至少目前，我們正在考慮採取觀望態度，在對我們的製造足跡或供應鏈做出任何重大改變之前，我們會評估各種關稅情境。

Got it. Thanks. The other part, definitely both Shai, both you and Mike talked about margin impact because there are I mean, input manufacturing input actually coming outside of US, while your manufacturing is very, very concentrated in the US.

知道了。謝謝。另一部分，Shai，你和 Mike 肯定都談到了利潤率的影響，因為我的意思是，投入製造的投入實際上來自美國以外，而你們的製造業非常非常集中在美國。

So, wonder, can you provide a little bit more color or just give us some examples? What are some input materials you are seeing today, maybe subject to tariffs, and yeah, give us some sense because we know that there's a 90-day pause as well, right?

所以，我想知道，您能否提供更多細節或只是給我們舉一些例子？您今天看到的哪些輸入材料可能要徵收關稅，是的，請給我們一些信息，因為我們知道也有 90 天的暫停期，對嗎？

I mean, excluding China, should we expect to see more of gross margin reduction after the 90 days? That's the second part of this question. Thank you.

我的意思是，除中國外，我們是否應該預期 90 天後毛利率會進一步下降？這是這個問題的第二部分。謝謝。

Alright. So, on the COGS side, as most of our manufacturing is in the US, about 80%, as Mike mentioned, import of supplies, things like subcomponents that we import from Japan and from Germany, this will be subject to the import tariffs. And that's why we estimated the impact on the gross margin in Q2 to be a negative one percentage points. I think going forward, as we said, it's wait and see. It is a dynamic and uncertain situation, and we monitor it closely.

好吧。因此，在 COGS 方面，由於我們的大部分製造業務都在美國，大約 80%（正如 Mike 提到的）進口物資，例如我們從日本和德國進口的子部件，都將受到進口關稅的影響。這就是為什麼我們估計第二季毛利率的影響將為負一個百分點。我認為，正如我們所說，展望未來，我們只能拭目以待。這是一個動態且不確定的情況，我們對此密切關注。

All right. Thank you so much. I think I'll limit myself to two questions. Thank you.

好的。太感謝了。我想我只問兩個問題。謝謝。

Craig Ellis, B. Riley Securities.

克雷格·艾利斯 (Craig Ellis)，B. Riley 證券。

Yeah. Thanks for taking the question, and congratulations on the business’s growth sequentially, Mike. I wanted to start by just talking about some of the key customer dynamics. So, your former number one customer, now number two, pop back up to 12% of sales in the quarter.

是的。感謝您提出這個問題，並祝賀公司業務的持續成長，麥克。首先我想談談一些關鍵的客戶動態。因此，您之前的第一大客戶，現在的第二大客戶，在本季的銷售額又回升了 12%。

Can you help us understand given their commentary around product mix moving back to n minus one and n minus two, but with them pushing on 18A and even running some wafers on 14A, what's happening with that customer and how confident you are in what is in the first quarter at least a bit of an uptick in their business?

您能否幫助我們理解，鑑於他們關於產品組合回到 n 減一和 n 減二的評論，但他們推動 18A 甚至在 14A 上運行一些晶圓，該客戶的情況如何，以及您對第一季度至少略有好轉的信心如何？他們的業務？

Yes. So, a good question, Craig. As you noted, this customer did return to our 10% customer list in the first quarter after not being there in the fourth quarter for the first time in a very, very long time. I think a couple of things. First of all, we do see increased activity in the client PC space as they ramp a new set of designs, really to try and regain their competitive position in one of their most important markets.

是的。所以，克雷格，你這個問題問得好。正如您所說，這位客戶在第四季度時隔很長時間沒有出現在我們的 10% 客戶名單中，但在第一季度，他又回到了我們的 10% 客戶名單中。我想到幾件事。首先，我們確實看到客戶端 PC 領域的活動增加，因為他們推出了一系列新設計，真正是為了試圖在其最重要的市場之一中重新獲得競爭地位。

And I think thematically, even as they go through a very significant turnaround, one of their stated objectives is to regain process and product leadership in their served markets. To do that, they're going to have to invest, right? And investing in leading-edge capital equipment, leading-edge test equipment and leading-edge consumables like those provided by FormFactor, I think, has got to be a key part of that.

我認為，從主題上講，即使他們經歷了非常重大的轉變，他們的既定目標之一仍然是重新獲得其服務市場中的流程和產品領導地位。為了做到這一點，他們必須進行投資，對嗎？我認為，投資 FormFactor 提供的尖端資本設備、尖端測試設備和尖端消耗品是其中的關鍵部分。

And so, we are if you read between the lines of our commentary on the increase in Q2, we do expect some continued strong activity there coming off what was a nice recovery in Q1.

因此，如果您仔細閱讀我們對第二季成長的評論，您會發現，我們確實預計，在第一季良好復甦的基礎上，第二季的經濟活動將繼續保持強勁。

More broadly, I think, though, if you look at where we've taken the company over the last several years, one of the key drivers for our business now is HBM and the investments in generative AI, you know, things like co-packaged optics. And I think that represents a pretty significant transformation away from the very high indexing and concentration we had to client DC in the past.

不過，從更廣泛的角度來看，我認為，如果你看看我們過去幾年帶領公司取得的進展，我們現在業務的關鍵驅動力之一是 HBM 和對生成 AI 的投資，例如共封裝光學元件。我認為這代表著我們過去對客戶 DC 的高索引和集中度發生了相當大的轉變。

It's all part of the diversification strategy that we've been running for the past -- close to a decade. But I think indicative again, we're going to compete as hard as we can for the client PC business across multiple customers, but we've also transformed our revenue drivers to make sure we're exposed to trends like generative AI and HBM and CPO.

這是我們近十年來一直推行的多元化策略的一部分。但我再次認為，我們將盡最大努力在多個客戶中爭奪客戶端 PC 業務，但我們也改變了我們的收入驅動力，以確保我們能夠接觸到產生 AI、HBM 和 CPO 等趨勢。

That's helpful. And then the follow-up question is more on the DRAM business. So, it seems quite notable that despite the BIS restrictions on China and what that did, the revenue sequentially were back at records in the second quarter. Can you help us understand what the mix would be between HBM and non-HBM revenue in 2Q, that you factored into guidance?

這很有幫助。後續問題比較是關於 DRAM 業務。因此，值得注意的是，儘管美國國際清算銀行對中國實施了限制，但第二季的收入仍連續回升至創紀錄水平。您能否幫助我們了解第二季度 HBM 和非 HBM 收入的混合情況，並將其納入指導範圍？

And then, as we think about the trend line for DRAM intermediate term, it seems like the magnitude of growth might mean that your now number one customer could approach 30% of sales in 2Q or if not, soon thereafter. Can you just talk about how we think about the path to low to mid 40% gross margins, given how high DRAM mix is indexing? Thank you.

然後，當我們思考 DRAM 中期趨勢線時，似乎成長幅度意味著您現在的頭號客戶可能在第二季度達到銷售額的 30%，如果不是，那麼很快就會達到。您能否談談，考慮到 DRAM 組合指數有多高，我們如何看待實現 40% 左右毛利率的途徑？謝謝。

Yeah. I'll talk to the customer dynamic and then pass it over to Shai for the gross margin analysis. But if you listen closely to the comments we made prior on this call, really all the growth in DRAM is coming from HBM. We see the non-HBM, so DDR5, low power DDR5, a little bit of residual DDR4 continuing to be pretty steady, but flat at around $20 million a quarter, which historically for FormFactor is a cyclical low for the commodity DRAM business.

是的。我會和客戶討論一下動態，然後把它交給Shai進行毛利率分析。但如果你仔細聽我們之前在這次電話會議上發表的評論，你會發現，DRAM 的所有成長實際上都來自 HBM。我們看到非 HBM，即 DDR5、低功耗 DDR5、少量剩餘的 DDR4 繼續保持相當穩定，但穩定在每季 2000 萬美元左右，從歷史上看，這對於 FormFactor 來說是商品 DRAM 業務的周期性低點。

So, really, all the sequential growth Q1 to Q2 that we're projecting is due to HBM growth. And I enumerated a couple of factors for that. One is continued strength in HBM3.

因此，實際上，我們預測的第一季至第二季的所有連續成長都歸功於 HBM 的成長。我列舉了幾個相關因素。一是HBM3的持續強勢。

Second is an acceleration of HBM4 that I think you've heard from all of our customers quite recently, and their customers as well. And then us continuing to round out our customer profile and revenue contributions. We have revenue contributions from all three HBM manufacturers, but we're beginning to see at least our second HBM customer start to drive a more significant contribution.

第二是 HBM4 的加速，我想您最近已經從我們所有的客戶以及他們的客戶那裡聽說過這個消息。然後我們繼續完善我們的客戶資料和收入貢獻。所有三家 HBM 製造商都為我們帶來了收入貢獻，但我們開始看到至少第二家 HBM 客戶開始帶來更大的貢獻。

Shai, do you want to discuss gross margin?

Shai，你想討論一下毛利率嗎？

Of course. So first, I would like to emphasize that we are committed to the target model, including the 40% gross margin at $850 million of annual revenue run rate. However, we are currently delivering revenues with a very different mix than when we put our target model in place.

當然。首先，我想強調的是，我們致力於目標模式，包括 8.5 億美元年營收運行率下的 40% 毛利率。然而，我們目前的收入組合與我們實施目標模式時相比有很大不同。

There are a few things that we are doing now, we are working on together with things that need to happen in the market for us to achieve the target model gross margin. When it comes to revenue, we need the overall end markets to recover since we need a higher volume to achieve our model. And we're also targeting a higher market share in the higher-margin foundry and logic market.

我們現在正在做一些事情，我們正在與市場上需要發生的事情一起努力，以實現目標模型毛利率。就收入而言，我們需要整體終端市場復甦，因為我們需要更高的銷售量來實現我們的模式。我們也瞄準利潤率更高的代工和邏輯市場，爭取更高的市場份額。

On improving the cost side, we're developing a lower-cost DRAM architecture as an example. We also have a few internal initiatives like ops organization consolidation that we did last year, things like lean manufacturing, automation. These all target gross margin improvements, and all of this together will get us to the target more than gross margin of 47%.

在改善成本方面，我們正在開發一種更低成本的 DRAM 架構作為範例。我們也採取了一些內部舉措，例如去年進行的營運組織整合、精實製造、自動化等。這些都是為了提高毛利率，所有這些加起來將使我們達到超過 47% 的毛利率目標。

Actually, if you go back a year ago, and I know that it seems like a long time now, but on the second quarter of 2024, with revenues of approximately $200 million gross margin was higher than 45%. That was a good validation point for us on our ability to make progress towards the target market.

實際上，如果回顧一年前，我知道現在看來已經很久了，但在 2024 年第二季度，營收約為 2 億美元，毛利率高於 45%。這對我們有能力朝目標市場邁進來說是一個很好的驗證點。

Thank you, guys.

謝謝你們。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Tom Diffely, D.A. Davidson.

湯姆·迪菲利（Tom Diffely），地方檢察官戴維森。

Yes, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions. Mike, curious when you look at the second half of the year and we look at the high bandwidth memory growth, can you prioritize our rank, the continuation of high bandwidth memory three versus growth coming from moving to four versus the growth coming from a new customer there?

是的，下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。麥克，我很好奇，當你展望下半年，並且我們關注高頻寬記憶體的成長時，你能否優先考慮我們的排名，高頻寬記憶體繼續保持第三，還是由於轉移到第四而產生的成長，還是由於新客戶而產生的成長？

Yeah. So as we move through 2025, and I'll preface this with, you know, the comment that even in normal times, our visibility in this business is very limited. Remember, we have lead times well within a quarter. So, we're operating with short lead times and limited visibility even in normal times, and these are decidedly not normal time.

是的。因此，當我們進入 2025 年時，我想首先說的是，即使在正常時期，我們在這個行業的知名度也非常有限。請記住，我們的交貨時間在一個季度之內。因此，即使在正常時期，我們的營運準備時間也很短，可見度也有限，而現在顯然不是正常時期。

What I would say about the mix of HBM3, which is primarily 3E at this point for us, transitioning to HBM4, we expect that crossover to happen sometime probably late in the second half of 2025 based on the different elements that we're seeing from customer forecast, customer qualifications and our conversations with our key customers.

我想說的是，對於 HBM3 的組合來說，目前主要是 3E，然後過渡到 HBM4，我們預計交叉將在 2025 年下半年晚些時候發生，這取決於我們從客戶預測、客戶資格和與主要客戶的對話中看到的不同因素。

I do think, based on what we see in terms of volume and market positions of our customers in HBM, we would continue to see a pretty strong contribution from the leader in HBM even as the transition goes from three to four.

我確實認為，根據我們在 HBM 客戶的數量和市場地位方面所看到的情況，即使從三家過渡到四家，我們仍將繼續看到 HBM 領導者做出相當強勁的貢獻。

They seem to have a pretty strong position as HBM4 begins to be sampled. But we're also excited about adding, you know, significant revenue contributions from a second HBM customer. And of course, we've got smaller but significant revenue contributions from the third major manufacturer as well.

隨著 HBM4 開始被採樣，他們似乎擁有相當強勢的地位。但我們也很高興能有第二個 HBM 客戶為我們帶來可觀的收入貢獻。當然，第三大製造商也為我們帶來了規模雖小但意義重大的收入貢獻。

But I'd say the real driver is going to be continued three volumes and with a transition on a crossover to four sometime late in the year.

但我想說，真正的驅動力是繼續推出三卷本，並在今年晚些時候過渡到四卷本。

And is there a revenue or margin difference between three and four for you?

對您來說，三家和四家的收入或利潤是否有差異？

I wouldn't say a significant one. HBM, generally has better margins than standard commodity DRAM because of the increased test complexity, things like higher speeds. There is a move to higher speed going from 3e to 4e that may drive a bit of an uplift, but I wouldn't consider it to be something that pushes HBM probe cards up into the foundry and logic margin space, for example.

我不會說這是一個重大問題。HBM 通常比標準商品 DRAM 具有更好的利潤率，因為測試複雜性增加，速度更快。從 3e 到 4e 的更高速度可能會帶來一些提升，但我不會認為這會將 HBM 探針卡推入代工廠和邏輯裕度空間。

Okay. And then as a follow-up, Shai, when you look at revenues in the first quarter, and say they were at the $212 level, would you have hit your $2 of earnings or do you need a different mix or more cost reduction programs to get there?

好的。然後作為後續問題，Shai，當您查看第一季的收入並假設其達到 212 美元的水平時，您是否能達到 2 美元的收益，或者您是否需要不同的組合或更多的成本削減計劃才能達到這一目標？

Yes. It's similar to my answer that I gave to Craig few minutes ago, right? Even at higher volumes, we need better mix, and there are still internal programs we're still working on to get this improvement.

是的。這和我幾分鐘前給 Craig 的回答很相似，對嗎？即使在更高的音量下，我們也需要更好的混合，我們仍在努力實現內部程序以實現這一改進。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Krish Shanker, TD Cowen.

Krish Shanker，TD Cowen。

Hey, guys. This is Eddie for Krish. Maybe just a clarification about the tariffs. Correct me if I'm wrong, you mentioned one-point margin impact on the cost side for Q2. How should we think about the worst-case scenario for like September margin impact from the tariffs, just assuming like things don't change into September?

嘿，大家好。這是 Eddie，代表 Krish。也許只是對關稅進行澄清。如果我錯了，請糾正我，您提到了第二季度成本方面對一個百分點的利潤影響。假設9月份情況不會發生變化，我們該如何考慮關稅對9月份利潤率影響的最壞情況？

I think it's too early to say that, right? This is a very dynamic and uncertain situation. You can try to extrapolate that 1% into the future. But at this point, I think it's wait and see before making speculations.

我認為現在這麼說還太早，對嗎？這是一個非常動態且不確定的情況。您可以嘗試將這 1% 推斷到未來。但目前，我認為在做出猜測之前，還是先觀望一下吧。

Okay. Noted. And the question on the HBM side, I mean, one of your main customers, like they're opening up a big fab, and it will be operational later this year. I wonder like historically, when these customers like open up new fabs, do you see like increase in HBM probe-card demand, or is it really unrelated because customers can move their components from one fab to the other?

好的。著名的。關於 HBM 方面的問題是，你們的一個主要客戶正在開設一家大型晶圓廠，並將於今年稍後投入營運。我想知道，從歷史上看，當這些客戶開設新的晶圓廠時，您是否會看到 HBM 探針卡需求的增加，或者這真的無關緊要，因為客戶可以將他們的組件從一個晶圓廠移動到另一個晶圓廠？

I think where a new fab is related to additional output and additional capacity, that will drive new probe card demand. If it's replacement capacity and if it's the situation I'm thinking about, it's not replacement capacity, it's additional capacity. That drives incremental demand for probe cards because the existing fabs are still running the old designs, still using and utilizing those probe cards. Now, one of the key factors in this is timing.

我認為，新晶圓廠與額外的產量和額外的產能有關，這將推動新的探針卡需求。如果是替代容量，並且如果是我考慮的情況，那麼它就不是替代容量，而是額外容量。這推動了對探針卡的增量需求，因為現有的晶圓廠仍在運行舊的設計，仍在使用和利用那些探針卡。現在，其中一個關鍵因素是時機。

And typically, it takes a few quarters for a new fab to become operational on ramp, and that's a best case. That's with some of the most operationally aggressive and efficient customers in the world. So just because a new fab opens its doors and starts taking delivery of equipment, it's usually two to three quarters before you see significant probe-card demand associated with the wafers being output from that fab.

通常，新工廠需要幾個季度才能投入運營，這是最好的情況。我們的客戶是世界上營運最積極、最高效的客戶之一。因此，僅僅因為一個新晶圓廠開業並開始接收設備，通常需要兩到三個季度的時間才能看到與該晶圓廠輸出的晶圓相關的大量探針卡需求。

Okay. Well, thank you, Mike.

好的。好吧，謝謝你，麥克。

All right. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Christian Schwab, Craig Hallum Capital.

克里斯蒂安·施瓦布，克雷格·哈勒姆資本。

Great. Thanks for taking my questions. I know it's very early and visibility is limited, but is customer dialogue as it relates to your foundry and logic business assuming that we do see an uptake in demand for PCs in the second half given end of life of Windows 10, no one talks about anymore with all the tariff discussion.

偉大的。感謝您回答我的問題。我知道現在還為時過早，而且能見度有限，但與您的代工和邏輯業務相關的客戶對話是否假設我們確實看到下半年對 PC 的需求有所增加，考慮到 Windows 10 的生命週期結束，沒有人再談論所有關稅討論。

But when we expect foundry and logic to return to a $100 million-plus type of revenue in the back half of the year, is that fair?

但是，當我們預計代工和邏輯電路的收入在下半年將恢復到 1 億美元以上的水平時，這公平嗎？

Well, I think if you factor everything together on the last call, I reminded you I'll remind you that we did say we expected 2025 to be a growth year, and some of that was going to have to be driven by midyear second half foundry logic growth through some of these large consumer markets.

好吧，我想如果你在上次電話會議上把所有因素都考慮進去，我提醒你，我提醒你，我們確實說過，我們預計 2025 年將是增長年，而其中一些增長將受到下半年通過一些大型消費市場實現的代工邏輯增長的推動。

I think the whole tariff and geopolitical situation has obviously thrown at least a shadow of doubt on top of that. But I think if you take that aside and assume there's going to be some rational outcome to, what's going on with tariffs right now and that the consumer continues to spend and there is this PC refresh cycle, I think your assumption is very, very valid.

我認為整個關稅和地緣政治局勢顯然至少為此蒙上了一層陰影。但我認為，如果你拋開這一點，假設現在的關稅情況會有一些合理的結果，消費者會繼續消費，而且還有個人電腦的更新周期，那麼我認為你的假設非常非常有效。

There's just a lot of ifs in that scenario as we look right now at some of the headwinds, mostly due to tariffs and US Trade policy and a variety of reactions to US Trade policy as we operate in this business.

在這種情況下，有許多如果，因為我們現在看到一些阻力，主要是由於關稅和美國貿易政策，以及我們在這個行業運作時對美國貿易政策的各種反應。

Great. Thank you. And then my second question, given the recent investment with Advantest, is there any update on anything on working together or thinking about markets together that make you more positive about the future, short, medium or long term?

偉大的。謝謝。然後我的第二個問題是，鑑於最近對 Advantest 的投資，在合作或共同考慮市場方面有什麼新進展讓您對未來（短期、中期或長期）更加樂觀嗎？

Yeah. Well, I think the Advantest investment in FormFactor, and to be completely transparent, with simultaneous with some investment in one of our competitors.

是的。嗯，我認為 Advantest 對 FormFactor 的投資是完全透明的，同時也對我們的一個競爭對手進行了投資。

This is really a statement of, at least, Advantest commitment to the open ecosystem where any probe card, at least any leading probe card, works with any tester. Teradyne, the other major AT manufacturer, although they have not made an investment in it, there's very close collaboration with them as well.

這實際上至少是 Advantest 對開放生態系統的承諾，在該生態系統中，任何探測卡（至少是任何領先的探測卡）都可以與任何測試儀配合使用。另一家主要的 AT 製造商 Teradyne 雖然沒有對其進行投資，但也與其保持著非常密切的合作。

And I think as we move forward here part of the things that have us optimistic about the growth of the business, things like advanced packaging and the adoption in both, places like HBM, but also in the GPU space, is driving a tremendous increase in complexity and a need for all of us as collaborators in building test systems, to work closely together to make sure we're meeting this accelerated high-performance compute road map.

我認為，隨著我們不斷前進，讓我們對業務成長感到樂觀的部分因素，例如先進封裝以及在 HBM 和 GPU 領域的採用，正在推動複雜性的大幅增加，並且需要我們所有人作為構建測試系統的合作者，密切合作，以確保我們能夠滿足這一加速的高效能運算路線圖。

So, I think it's a rational response that we're all working closely together, collaborating closely, and making sure that our R&D teams are very well aligned and interlocked in what we have to deliver to support each other's road maps.

因此，我認為，一個合理的反應是，我們都在密切合作，密切合作，並確保我們的研發團隊在我們必須交付的東西上協調一致、相互配合，以支持彼此的路線圖。

I think the exciting part of it is, when you lead in businesses like this and the technical complexity and speed is getting higher, speed of innovation is getting higher, that really does create a significant competitive advantage and barriers for anybody else to answer.

我認為令人興奮的是，當你在這樣的企業中處於領先地位時，技術複雜性和速度越來越高，創新速度越來越高，這確實為其他人創造了顯著的競爭優勢和障礙。

Great. No other questions. Congrats on a good quarter and guide.

偉大的。沒有其他問題。恭喜本季和本指南取得良好成績。

Thanks, Christian.

謝謝，克里斯蒂安。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) David Duley, Steelhead Securities.

（操作員指示）Steelhead Securities 的 David Duley。

Yes, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. I was wondering as far as the major GPU manufacturer, I think they've started to use advanced probe cars. Where are we on the qualification with that customer? And then you keep mentioning co-packaged optics. I'm wondering is that the insertion point for you guys with this customer, or is that a separate opportunity? Thanks.

是的，下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。我想知道主要的 GPU 製造商，我認為他們已經開始使用先進的探測車了。我們對這個客戶的資質要求如何？然後你繼續提到共同封裝的光學元件。我想知道這是你們與這位客戶合作的切入點嗎，還是一個單獨的機會？謝謝。

Yeah. So, David, that customer has, multiple opportunities both current and future for us. We've updated people in the past that we have a strong position in their switch business. The co-packaged optics opportunity has largely been in the lab space, but as we devoted some significant time on this call to updating you, we see this transitioning very rapidly into the production space.

是的。所以，大衛，對我們來說，那個客戶在當前和未來都有多個機會。我們過去曾向人們通報過，我們在他們的交換器業務中佔有強勢地位。共封裝光學元件的機會主要存在於實驗室領域，但隨著我們在這次電話會議上投入大量時間來向您通報最新情況，我們看到它正在迅速轉向生產領域。

And if you go look at what these customers have said, what this customer in particular has said about CPO, co-packaged optics, insertion in the roadmap, I think it's pretty easy to connect those dots.

如果你去看看這些客戶說了什麼，特別是這個客戶對 CPO、共封裝光學元件、路線圖插入的評價，我認為將這些點連結起來非常容易。

On, advanced probe cards for GPUs, we're addressing that opportunity through a qualification primarily at their at their foundry, and that qualification is going well. We've got cards there that are being evaluated. We think we've got a compelling, technical solution.

對於 GPU 的先進探測卡，我們主要透過在其代工廠進行的資格認證來抓住這一機會，而且該資格認證進展順利。我們正在評估那裡的卡片。我們認為我們已經找到了令人信服的技術解決方案。

This is a new technology, a new product for us. We've got a compelling technical solution to go compete for that business, and I hope we'll be able to update you positively in the second half of the year.

對我們來說，這是一項新技術、新產品。我們有一個引人注目的技術解決方案來爭取該業務，我希望我們能夠在今年下半年向您提供積極的更新資訊。

But we already have a pretty significant relationship with that customer in both the switch and co-packaged optics space, and are now making some progress in pushing into the core GPU space.

但我們已經與該客戶在交換器和共封裝光學領域建立了相當重要的關係，並且現在在進軍核心 GPU 領域方面取得了一些進展。

So it's a three-headed opportunity there.

所以這是一個三頭並進的機會。

Yeah. As with many of these customers the opportunities are multifaceted. These are big companies with broad product lines. It goes to the fundamental strategy the FormFactor has driven of trying to lead in these related markets where we have fundamental technology competencies and product competencies and can offer a broad suite of products to help these customers with their test and measurement needs.

是的。與許多此類客戶一樣，機會是多方面的。這些都是擁有廣泛產品線的大公司。它符合 FormFactor 所推動的基本策略，即努力引領這些相關市場，我們在這些市場中擁有基本的技術能力和產品能力，並可以提供廣泛的產品套件來幫助這些客戶滿足他們的測試和測量需求。

Okay. And then, one of the major OSATs reported last night and has talked about making a huge investment in, test, and I think talked about similar to the things that you've talked about, higher intensity for both probe and test.

好的。然後，昨晚一家主要的 OSAT 報告稱，將對測試進行大規模投資，我認為其討論的內容與您討論的內容類似，即探測和測試的強度都更高。

But they went out of their way to highlight how they think there's going to be more test insertions. And I'm just wondering, and this is involving advanced packages, both GPUs and high bandwidth memory. I'm just wondering from your perspective, you've talked about an intensity level for these advanced packages.

但他們特意強調他們認為將會有更多的測試插入。我只是好奇，這涉及先進的軟體包，包括 GPU 和高頻寬記憶體。我只是想知道，從您的角度來看，您談到了這些高級包的強度等級。

I think it's 25% to 35% higher. Would you expect that percentage to get higher going forward? Or, if there were more test insertions, would that equate to more hope cards sold? Thanks.

我認為要高出 25% 到 35%。您認為這個比例未來會更高嗎？或者，如果有更多的測試插入，是否意味著銷售更多的希望卡？謝謝。

Yeah. Certainly, there's a good linkage or correlation between the number of test insurances and probe cards sold. And I'll take you back to the HBM example because it's one I think that; most people have a pretty good understanding of. You know, as you're as you're building an HBM product, it's a stack of 8, 12, even 16 die, compared to a commodity DRAM that's a single die.

是的。當然，測試保險的數量和探針卡的銷售量之間存在著良好的聯繫或相關性。我將帶您回到 HBM 範例，因為我認為它是一個例子；大多數人對此都有相當好的理解。您知道，當您建造 HBM 產品時，它是 8、12 甚至 16 個晶片的堆疊，而商用 DRAM 則只有一個晶片。

Each one of those 16 die that's stacked up needs to be tested. So, you've got, in theory, 6 times, 16 times the test insertions that you otherwise would have. Now there's offsets to that. Right? There's not the bit count in each, and therefore, the test time in each of the stack DRAM. But it gives you an indication of the increase in test intensity driven by this die disaggregation or chiplet architecture.

堆疊起來的 16 個晶片中的每一個都需要進行測試。因此，理論上，您獲得的測試插入次數是其他情況下的 6 倍、16 倍。現在，這種情況已經得到彌補。正確的？每個堆疊 DRAM 中沒有位數，因此也沒有測試時間。但它顯示了由晶片分解或晶片架構驅動的測試強度的增加。

Each of the chiplets or die going into these advanced packaging stacks, whether it be HBM, whether it be GPUs, whether it be client processors, they all need to be very close to known good. Otherwise, you end up with a scenario where a single dye can, essentially, cause a scrap event for all the other die in the stack. And that's there's no question it's driving increased test intensity.

這些先進封裝堆疊中的每個小晶片或晶片，無論是 HBM、GPU 還是客戶端處理器，都需要非常接近已知的良好狀態。否則，最終會出現這樣的情況：單一染料基本上會導致堆疊中所有其他晶片報廢。毫無疑問，這正在推動考試強度的增加。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Craig Ellis, B. Riley Securities.

克雷格·艾利斯 (Craig Ellis)，B. Riley 證券。

Thanks for taking the follow-up question. Mike, I wanted to go back to some of the commentary you've had on CPO and it's benefiting the systems business now. You indicated it has the potential to benefit the probe card business. I don't recall your mentioning that before.

感謝您回答後續問題。麥克，我想回顧一下你對 CPO 的一些評論，它現在對系統業務有益。您表示它有可能使探針卡業務受益。我不記得你之前提到過這件事。

The question is relative to an application that's very probe card intensive like the HBM examples you just provided to David and others that are much less probe card intensive, whether it's more the commodity DRAM, other memory types, etcetera, where do you expect CPO to fall out and how broad is your engagement in CPO? Thank you.

問題是相對於探測卡密集度非常高的應用程序，例如您剛剛向 David 提供的 HBM 示例以及其他探測卡密集度低得多的應用程序，無論是更多的商品 DRAM、其他內存類型等等，您預計 CPO 會如何發展，以及您在 CPO 方面的參與範圍有多廣？謝謝。

Yeah. Yeah. Let me start with the second question first. I mean, our engagement in CPO, we run the same strategy there or have run the same strategy there that we've run across most of our businesses where we partner very closely with a handful of customers, and make sure that we're serving their needs, and then we fan out to the rest of the industry.

是的。是的。我先從第二個問題開始。我的意思是，我們在 CPO 方面的投入，我們在那裡實施的策略與我們在大多數業務中實施的策略相同，我們與少數客戶密切合作，確保滿足他們的需求，然後我們擴展到整個行業。

And we see that broadening right now. I think it's fair to say we're a recognized leader in the lab space in, silicon photonics and co-packaged optics. That's now extending to this early production. If we go back to the impact on probe cards, we have brought it up a couple of times before.

我們現在看到這種趨勢正在擴大。我認為可以說我們是矽光子學和共封裝光學實驗室領域公認的領導者。現在這已經延伸到早期生產了。如果我們回顧對探針卡的影響，我們之前已經提過幾次了。

And but we're early enough in the production, our ramp, and optimization of this, where the different test insertions and the requirements for those test insertions are still really being optimized between us and our customers.

但是，我們在生產、提升和優化方面還處於早期階段，我們和客戶之間仍在對不同的測試插入以及這些測試插入的要求進行最佳化。

I think it'll definitely be an electrical component and an optical component. And one of the reasons why we're so excited about CPO is that it brings these two things together, where we have fundamental expertise and a leadership position in the lab space as well as in the production space with production probe card.

我認為它肯定是一個電氣元件和一個光學元件。我們對 CPO 如此興奮的原因之一是它將這兩件事結合在一起，我們在實驗室領域以及在生產探針卡的生產領域擁有基礎專業知識和領導地位。

So, the fusing of electrical and optical test is something where we think there's a big opportunity in front of us. A little hard to size and estimate right now in these early days, but I think you can stitch together the fundamental strengths of FormFactor with the customer needs they're going to have as they try and ramp these devices.

因此，我們認為電氣和光學測試的融合對我們而言是一個巨大的機會。在早期階段，現在有點難以確定規模和進行估計，但我認為你可以將 FormFactor 的基本優勢與客戶在嘗試推廣這些設備時的需求結合起來。

That's helpful. Thanks.

這很有幫助。謝謝。

Thanks, Craig.

謝謝，克雷格。

(Operator Instructions) Brian Chin, Stifel.

（操作員指示） Brian Chin，Stifel。

Good afternoon. Thanks for letting us ask a few questions. I don't foresee this, Mike, being a multi-year trend, but Intel is seeing a surprising resurgence in shipments of an older platform in Raptor Lake. If there's a higher concentration of mono CPUs versus chiplet CPUs built for PCs this year, does that have a little bit of a dampening effect on the company's maybe revenue potential or trajectory this year?

午安.感謝您讓我們提出幾個問題。麥克，我並不認為這會成為一種持續多年的趨勢，但英特爾看到 Raptor Lake 這個舊平台的出貨量出現了令人驚訝的復甦。如果今年 PC 上單晶片 CPU 的集中度高於小型晶片 CPU，這是否會對該公司今年的收入潛力或發展軌跡產生一些抑製作用？

Well, let me address it maybe more generally. An older design like that, it would be my expectation that any customer would have already bought all the probe cards they need to test that device.

好吧，讓我更籠統地談談這個問題。對於像這樣的較舊的設計，我期望任何客戶都已經購買了測試該設備所需的所有探測卡。

Probe card spending usually very, very intensive in the early part of a ramp when yields are low and die output, are peaking. And so, my anticipation, or estimation in a situation like that, would be, a customer probably pulls the probe-cards they need off the shelf to test those older devices.

探測卡的支出通常在產品量成長的早期階段非常密集，因為此時產量較低，而晶片產量則達到高峰。因此，在這種情況下，我的預期或估計是，客戶可能會從貨架上取下他們需要的探測卡來測試那些舊設備。

There may be a little bit of follow on, but you can see from that dynamic, if there was a giant mix shift away from new designs and the leading edge back towards ones that where customers are reusing the tooling and probe-cards, that would have a significant impact on, our business and the overall probe-cards spend.

可能會有一點後續情況，但從這種動態中你可以看出，如果從新設計和前沿技術轉向客戶重複使用工具和探測卡的技術，這將對我們的業務和整體探測卡支出產生重大影響。

Okay. That's helpful. And then maybe just shifting to memory, just firstly, and I apologize if I missed this couching a bit, but within the evolution of your product mix from 3E and then towards four and maybe in the latter part of the year, it's still your expectation that HBM revenue is up year to year?

好的。這很有幫助。然後可能只是轉到記憶，首先，如果我錯過了一點，我很抱歉，但是在您的產品組合從 3E 向 4E 演變的過程中，也許在今年下半年，您仍然預期 HBM 收入會逐年增長？

And then secondly, more under what you can control, and maybe for Shai, are you still on track to ship and sample some of those more cost-competitive non-HBM DDR5 probe-cards this year? And how's that adoption and potential going for next year?

其次，更多取決於您可以控制的範圍，也許對於 Shai 來說，您今年是否仍有望出貨和提供一些更具成本競爭力的非 HBM DDR5 探測卡的樣品？明年的採用情況和潛力如何？

Yes. I think we do expect on the current trajectory, HBM to grow year on year. And I think consistent with our customers, our customers' expectations for their HBM growth and the transition to new designs like HBM4 and higher stacks of HBM3.

是的。我認為我們確實預計按照目前的軌跡，HBM 將逐年成長。我認為這與我們的客戶一致，我們的客戶對其 HBM 成長的期望以及向 HBM4 和更高堆疊的 HBM3 等新設計的過渡。

So, we do expect it to grow. I'll continue on with the new DRAM architecture. We shared with you last time that we're developing and releasing a new lower-cost DRAM architecture for the non-HBM commodity market, and we've shipped, I'll call it pilot volumes, to our beta customer associated with that, and that program is going well.

因此，我們確實預計它會成長。我將繼續研究新的 DRAM 架構。我們上次與大家分享過，我們正在為非 HBM 商品市場開發和發布新的低成本 DRAM 架構，並且我們已經向與此相關的 beta 客戶發貨（我稱之為試點量），而且該計劃進展順利。

Okay, great. Thanks, Mike.

好的，太好了。謝謝，麥克。

David Silver, CL King and Associates.

大衛·西爾弗（David Silver），CL King 和同事。

Yeah, hi. Thank you. I had a question, maybe about your system's sales. Mike, in the past, you've talked about how, well, on the one hand, you say you have very low visibility, for the timing of near-term orders, I guess. But the system sales do tell a different tale, I guess, looking out a little bit further beyond that. So I guess from a lab to fab perspective. But what do the demand for your systems, products right now tell you both, I guess, in quantity, but also maybe the types of machines that seem to be most in demand?

是的，你好。謝謝。我有一個問題，可能是關於你們系統的銷售狀況。麥克，過去，你曾談到，一方面，你說你對近期訂單的時間安排的了解程度很低，我想。但我想，如果從更遠的角度來看，系統銷售情況確實會講述一個不同的故事。所以我猜是從實驗室到工廠的角度來看。但是，目前對您的系統、產品的需求告訴您什麼呢？我想，不僅是數量，還有可能最需要的機器類型是什麼？

Yeah. Well in our comments on visibility, there's varying degrees of visibility. Right? Because a lot of our products, certainly for probe cards, are highly customized and specific to an individual customer chip design, you know, they a set of probe cards only works for a single chip design.

是的。在我們對可見性的評論中，可見性的程度各不相同。正確的？因為我們的許多產品，當然是探針卡，都是高度客製化的，並且針對單一客戶的晶片設計，所以你知道，一組探針卡僅適用於單一晶片設計。

The visibility associated with that essentially tracks our customers' prediction of what wafers they're going to start when. And typically, that foreshadowing, that forecasting, is not very good.

與此相關的可見性基本上追蹤了我們的客戶對何時開始生產哪種晶圓的預測。通常來說，這種預示、這種預測都不是很好。

With and here when we think about longer-term visibility as to perhaps not volumes associated with individual designs, but broader trends in the industry, which is what I think you're alluding to in the systems business, the visibility gets quite a bit better.

在這裡，當我們考慮長期可見性時，可能不是與單一設計相關的數量，而是行業的更廣泛趨勢，我認為這就是您在系統業務中提到的，可見性會變得更好。

Now that doesn't mean we know shifting to the systems business that we're going to ship 20 systems or 10 systems associated with co-packaged optics. But we know we're going to ship some systems associated with co-packaged optics because we've been working very closely with these driver customers, and we understand their ramp timing.

現在，這並不意味著我們知道轉向系統業務，我們將運送 20 個系統或 10 個與共同封裝光學相關的系統。但我們知道我們將會推出一些與共同封裝光學元件相關的系統，因為我們一直與這些驅動器客戶密切合作，並且我們了解他們的成長時間。

The quantities and therefore the business volume that drives fundamental production visibility for us is the part that continues to be pretty elusive, and I would expect it to stay elusive in an environment where, the industry continues to innovate extremely rapidly and go through, very, very, very quick ramps of new products.

對我們來說，推動基本生產可見度的數量和業務量是仍然相當難以捉摸的部分，我預計在行業繼續極其快速地創新和經歷新產品非常非常快速的增長的環境中，它將仍然難以捉摸。

Okay. Great. And then I apologize in advance. I did have unfortunately, I was dropped off the call for a little bit, so I apologize if I'm making you repeat yourself. But in your prepared remarks, you did talk about, the FICT relationship and its potent the effects of tariffs potentially on the products that you purchased there.

好的。偉大的。然後我提前道歉。不幸的是，我的通話中斷了一會兒，所以如果我讓您重複剛才的話，我深表歉意。但在您準備好的演講中，您確實談到了 FICT 關係及其關稅對您在那裡購買的產品的潛在影響。

Could you just remind me or tell me, does FICT have any alternate production points, or are they solely based in Japan as far as the tariff relationships go? Is there any flexibility from utilizing assets or production sites in other geographies? Thank you.

您能否提醒我或告訴我，FICT 是否有任何替代生產點，或者就關稅關係而言，他們是否僅位於日本？利用其他地區的資產或生產基地是否有彈性？謝謝。

Yeah. Well, I think I'll answer that question a little bit differently. So, Shai's commentary on some of the gross margin pressure associated with imports from Japan is much more general than just FICT. We have a lot of suppliers arrayed worldwide. And although there's been a ninety day pause on the big headline tariffs, if you followed closely, there were some small incremental ones that were put in place.

是的。好吧，我想我會以稍微不同的方式回答這個問題。因此，Shai 對於日本進口帶來的一些毛利率壓力的評論比 FICT 更為普遍。我們在全球擁有眾多供應商。儘管主要關稅已暫停九十天，但如果你密切關注的話，你會發現已經實施了一些小幅遞增的關稅。

And that's behind the 1-point gross margin headwind that we talked about in our Q2 outlook. I'd say the more exciting thing about the FICT partnership and the closing is the access it gives us to a pretty unique technology. They are, their manufacturing footprint is in Japan, but a very specialized technology that years ago was, spun out of Fujitsu, and we're very happy to be partnered with MBK Partners as a shareholder.

這就是我們在第二季展望中談到的 1 個百分點毛利率逆風的原因。我想說，與 FICT 的合作和最終達成更令人興奮的是，它讓我們能夠使用非常獨特的技術。他們的製造基地在日本，但這項非常專業的技術是多年前從富士通剝離出來的，我們很高興能與 MBK Partners 合作成為股東。

I'm a board member at FICT and a closer coupling now between FormFactor and FICT. But I disassociate that a little bit from tariffs. We were talking more broadly about supplies we import from Japan, which go far beyond, the business with FICT.

我是 FICT 的董事會成員，現在 FormFactor 和 FICT 之間的連結更加緊密。但我並不認為這跟關稅有什麼關係。我們更廣泛地談論了從日本進口的物資，這遠遠超出了與 FICT 的業務範圍。

Sure. Okay. Great. Thank you very much.

當然。好的。偉大的。非常感謝。

Thanks, David.

謝謝，大衛。

Thank you. This does conclude the question-and-answer session of today's program. I'd like to hand the program back to Mike Slessor for any further remarks.

謝謝。今天節目的問答環節到此結束。我想將程式交還給 Mike Slessor，以便他提出進一步的意見。

Thanks, everybody. Over the next month to six weeks or so, we've got several conference appearances where we hope to be able to continue to update you on the business. Hopefully, we'll have more clarity on tariffs and how we're responding. So we hope to see you then.

謝謝大家。在接下來的一個月到六週左右的時間裡，我們將參加幾次會議，希望能夠繼續向您通報業務進度。希望我們能夠更清楚地了解關稅以及我們的應對措施。所以我們希望到時候能見到你。

If we don't see you then, we'll see you when we announce second-quarter results. Take care.

如果那時我們沒能見到您，那麼我們將在公佈第二季業績時見到您。小心。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect. Good day.

女士們、先生們，感謝各位參加今天的會議。該計劃確實就此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。再會。