FormFactor Inc (FORM) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Thank you, and welcome, everyone, to FormFactor's second-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. On today's call are Chief Executive Officer Mike Slessor, and Chief Financial Officer Shai Shahar.

謝謝並歡迎大家參加 FormFactor 的 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。執行長 Mike Slessor 和財務長 Shai Shahar 出席了今天的電話會議。

Before we begin Stan Finkelstein, the company's VP of Investor Relations, will remind you of some important information.

在我們開始之前，公司投資者關係副總裁 Stan Finkelstein 將提醒您一些重要資訊。

Thank you. Today the company will be discussing GAAP P&L results and some important non-GAAP results intended to supplement your understanding of the company's financials. Reconciliations of GAAP to non-GAAP measures and other financial information are available in the press release issued today by the company and on the Investor Relations section of our website.

謝謝。今天，該公司將討論 GAAP 損益表結果和一些重要的非 GAAP 結果，旨在補充您對公司財務狀況的理解。公認會計準則與非公認會計準則衡量標準的對帳以及其他財務資訊可在本公司今天發布的新聞稿和我們網站的投資者關係部分中找到。

Today's discussion contains forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. Examples of such forward-looking statements include those with respect to the projections of financial and business performance, future macroeconomic and geopolitical conditions, the benefits of acquisitions and investments in capacity and new technologies.

今天的討論包含聯邦證券法意義內的前瞻性陳述。此類前瞻性陳述的例子包括有關財務和業務業績預測、未來宏觀經濟和地緣政治狀況、產能和新技術收購和投資的好處的前瞻性陳述。

Th impact of global, regional and national health crisis, including the COVID-19 pandemic, anticipated industry trends, potential disruption in our supply chain, the impacts of regulatory changes, including the recent US China trade restrictions, the anticipated demand for product, our ability to develop produce and sell products and the assumptions upon which such statements are based.

全球、區域和國家健康危機的影響，包括 COVID-19 大流行、預期的行業趨勢、我們供應鏈的潛在中斷、監管變化的影響，包括最近的中美貿易限制、對產品的預期需求、我們的開發、生產和銷售產品的能力以及此類陳述所依據的假設。

These statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed during this call. Information on risk factors and uncertainties is contained in our most recent filing on Form 10-K with the SEC for the fiscal year ended December 30, 2023 and in our other SEC filings, which are available on the SEC's website at www.sec.gov and in our press release issued today, forward-looking statements are made as of today, July 31, 2024, and we assume no obligation to update them without.

這些陳述受到已知和未知的風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與本次電話會議中表達的結果有重大差異。有關風險因素和不確定性的資訊包含在我們最近向SEC 提交的截至2023 年12 月30 日財年的10-K 表格以及我們其他SEC 文件中，這些文件可在SEC 網站www.sec.gov 上查閱在我們今天發布的新聞稿中，前瞻性陳述是截至今天（2024 年 7 月 31 日）做出的，我們不承擔更新這些陳述的義務。

We will now turn the call over to FormFactor's CEO Mike Slessor.

我們現在將把電話轉交給 FormFactor 的執行長 Mike Slessor。

Thanks, everyone, for joining us today. FormFactor's second-quarter revenue, non-GAAP gross margin and non-GAAP EPS all exceeded the midpoint of the outlook range we provided in May. Expected strength in our probe card business drove second quarter results as we recorded sequential increases in all three probe card markets.

謝謝大家今天加入我們。FormFactor 第二季營收、非 GAAP 毛利率和非 GAAP 每股盈餘都超過了我們 5 月提供的展望範圍的中點。我們的探針卡業務的預期強勁推動了第二季度的業績，因為我們在所有三個探針卡市場都實現了連續成長。

DRAM probe-card revenue reached record levels with revenue from high-bandwidth memory or HBM doubling for the third consecutive quarter to nearly 75% of our DRAM revenue. In the current third quarter. We're experiencing steady overall demand for FormFactor's products as we continue to make progress towards our target financial model.

DRAM 探針卡收入達到創紀錄水平，來自高頻寬記憶體或 HBM 的收入連續第三個季度翻倍，佔 DRAM 收入的近 75%。在當前的第三季。隨著我們繼續朝著目標財務模型取得進展，我們對 FormFactor 產品的整體需求保持穩定。

Our second quarter results and third quarter outlook illustrate the unique value of FormFactor's diversification strategy, which differentiates us from our direct competitors with a broad lab to fab product portfolio across foundry and logic, DRAM and Flash probe-cards, together with our Systems segment products.

我們第二季的業績和第三季的展望說明了FormFactor 多元化策略的獨特價值，這使我們與直接競爭對手區分開來，擁有廣泛的實驗室到晶圓廠產品組合，涵蓋代工和邏輯、DRAM 和快閃探針卡，以及我們的系統細分產品。

This portfolio enables us to compete for business across diverse demand pools at all major customers producing relatively stable results during last year's downturn and the top line growth we're delivering this year.

該產品組合使我們能夠在所有主要客戶的不同需求池中競爭業務，在去年的經濟低迷時期產生相對穩定的業績，並在今年實現營收成長。

Our revenue growth is being driven by exposure to expanding areas like high-bandwidth memory and DRAM probe-cards and co-packaged silicon photonics and systems enabling FormFactor to grow even as we await refresh cycles in important high unit volume end markets that drive Foundry and Logic probe-card spending like mobile handsets, client PCs.

我們的收入成長是由於接觸高頻寬記憶體和DRAM 探針卡以及共同封裝的矽光子和系統等不斷擴大的領域而推動的，即使我們在等待重要的高單位產量終端市場的更新周期，這些市場推動了代工和製造，但FormFactor 仍能實現成長。

FormFactor's third-quarter outlook also demonstrates several unique features of probe-card demand. As we often note, probe cards are a consumable that's specific to each new chip design, meaning we benefit from both technology node transitions and from the release of new designs on existing nodes, together with our broad market and customer exposure. This produces a more stable demand profile than the more volatile demand cycles that characterize capital equipment.

FormFactor 的第三季展望也展示了探針卡需求的幾個獨特特徵。正如我們經常指出的那樣，探針卡是特定於每種新晶片設計的消耗品，這意味著我們受益於技術節點過渡和現有節點上新設計的發布，以及我們廣泛的市場和客戶曝光。與資本設備所特有的更不穩定的需求週期相比，這產生了更穩定的需求狀況。

This difference is particularly evident in the current environment as FormFactor's stable third quarter outlook contrasts sharply with the sequentially weaker third quarter outlooks offered by several companies in the test and assembly capital equipment.

這種差異在當前環境下尤其明顯，因為 FormFactor 穩定的第三季前景與幾家測試和組裝資本設備公司提供的連續疲軟的第三季前景形成鮮明對比。

Turning now to market and segment level details as I noted we set a record for DRAM probe-card revenue in the second quarter, driven by the sequential doubling of high-bandwidth memory revenue layered on top of steady DDR5, new design activity to put HBM toward growth into perspective. In the first half of 2024 alone, we doubled the HBM revenue we delivered in all of 2023.

現在轉向市場和細分市場層面的詳細信息，正如我所指出的，我們在第二季度創下了DRAM 探針卡收入的記錄，這是由於在穩定的DDR5 之上的高頻寬內存收入連續翻倍，新的設計活動將HBM走向成長的視野。光是 2024 年上半年，我們就將 2023 年全年交付的 HBM 收入翻了一番。

In addition, our second quarter HBM revenue is greater than FormFactor's total quarterly DRAM revenue in each quarter of 2023. This activity is a direct result of the large hyperscaler investments in generative-AI infrastructure and our customers' corresponding ramps of HBM capacity and output.

此外，我們第二季的 HBM 營收大於 FormFactor 2023 年每季的季度 DRAM 總營收。這項活動是超大規模投資於生成型 AI 基礎設施以及我們客戶相應的 HBM 容量和產量提升的直接結果。

HBM, which is a stack of 8, 12 or even 16 individual DRAM die assembled with advanced packaging processes like through Silicon Via's and Thermo-Compression Bonding continues to offer a powerful example. Advanced packaging is driving our current results.

HBM 是由 8 個、12 個甚至 16 個獨立 DRAM 晶片組成的堆棧，透過矽通孔和熱壓接合等先進封裝製程組裝而成，它繼續提供了有力的範例。先進的封裝正在推動我們目前的業績。

Also foreshadows our long term opportunity as we benefit from the increased test intensity and increased test complexity that's inherent in advanced packaging architecture. In the third quarter, demand for DRAM probe-cards continues to be robust, and we expect a slight increase in revenue from the second quarter record.

也預示著我們的長期機會，因為我們受益於先進封裝架構固有的測試強度和測試複雜性的增加。第三季度，DRAM探針卡的需求持續強勁，我們預計營收將較第二季的紀錄略有成長。

We do, however, expect a shift in our DRAM product mix with sequential increase in DDR5 shipments and a reduction in HBM shipments. we mentioned in the past that our customers often have one to two quarter periods of digestion following a strong quarter of shipments with lead times of less than a quarter for short term visibility remains challenging as always, but given our customers' continued strong investment in HBM capacity, we expect the third quarter pause in HBM growth will represent a temporary digestion phase and the growth will resume in one to two quarters.

然而，我們確實預期我們的 DRAM 產品組合將會轉變，DDR5 出貨量將持續增加，而 HBM 出貨量將減少。我們過去提到過，在強勁的季度出貨量之後，我們的客戶通常需要一到兩個季度的消化時間，交貨時間不到四分之一，短期可見性仍然具有挑戰性，但考慮到我們的客戶對HBM 的持續強勁投資產能方面，我們預計第三季 HBM 成長的暫停將代表暫時的消化階段，成長將在一到兩個季度內恢復。

Shifting to the Foundry and Logic probe-card market, we delivered the expected second quarter sequential growth driven by the seasonal ramp of new mobile application processor designs and stronger probe card demand for client PC and server microprocessor designs.

轉向代工廠和邏輯探針卡市場，在新行動應用處理器設計的季節性增長以及客戶端PC 和伺服器微處理器設計的探針卡需求強勁的推動下，我們實現了預期的第二季度連續增長。

In the current third quarter, we expect foundry and logic demand and product mix to be similar to that achieved in the second quarter. Advanced packaging processes like foveros and [co-los] are being increasingly used to architect foundry and logic chip designs.

在目前的第三季度，我們預計代工和邏輯需求以及產品組合將與第二季度的情況相似。foveros 和 [co-los] 等先進封裝製程越來越多地用於架構代工和邏輯晶片設計。

As with HBM and DRAM, this disaggregation of a chip into subcomponent chiplets or tiles increases both test intensity and test complexity compared to an equivalent model of the chip. The increase in test intensity is driven by the need for our customers to prove and test each component chiplet prior to stacking and then to prove and test the multi-chip flip stack at various points during the assembly process.

與 HBM 和 DRAM 一樣，與晶片的等效模型相比，將晶片分解為子組件小晶片或塊會增加測試強度和測試複雜性。測試強度的增加是由於我們的客戶需要在堆疊之前驗證和測試每個組件小晶片，然後在組裝過程中的不同點驗證和測試多晶片倒裝堆疊。

The resulting increase in probe card use per good die out is the same dynamic that is driving the strong probe card spending by our customers for HBM, DRAM and as the source of relatively strong midyear Foundry and Logic demand, despite the lack of recovery in important end markets like mobile handsets, and PCs.

由此產生的每顆晶片的探針卡使用量的增加與推動我們的客戶在HBM、DRAM 上強勁的探針卡支出的動力相同，並且作為年中晶圓代工廠和邏輯需求相對強勁的來源，儘管重要的晶圓代工和邏輯需求缺乏復甦。

At the same time, the technical requirements for probe-cards for Foundry and Logic designs built using advanced packaging processes are significantly more demanding than for standard unstack products involving higher test speeds and more challenging thermal and power specifications as we've seen with HBM and DRAM, our differentiated ability to meet these performance requirements to drive both market share and profitability gains as the adoption of advanced packaging in foundry and logic continues.

同時，使用先進封裝製程建構的代工和邏輯設計的探針卡的技術要求比標準非堆疊產品的技術要求要高得多，涉及更高的測試速度和更具挑戰性的熱和功率規格，正如我們在HBM 和DRAM，我們滿足這些性能要求的差異化能力，隨著代工和邏輯中先進封裝的不斷採用，推動市場份額和盈利能力的增長。

In the Systems segment, we expect a slight sequential increase in Q3 revenue as customers continue to engage us to solve the most complex electro optical test and measurement challenges in areas like quantum computing and co-packaged silicon photonics.

在系統領域，隨著客戶繼續讓我們解決量子運算和共封裝矽光子等領域最複雜的光電測試和測量挑戰，我們預計第三季營收將略有環比成長。

In co-packaged optics, which is poised to revolutionize chip-to-chip communication in the data center by significantly reducing power consumption at high data rates. We're collaborating with key customers in the early stages of the lab to fab transition from R&D to low-volume production.

在共封裝光學元件中，它將透過顯著降低高資料速率下的功耗來徹底改變資料中心的晶片到晶片通訊。我們正在實驗室的早期階段與主要客戶合作，將晶圓廠從研發過渡到小批量生產。

In these collaborations, customers are deploying FormFactor's turnkey electro-optical measurement systems built on our CM300 and SUMMIT200 engineering probers, together with our proprietary [steriods] optical probes.

在這些合作中，客戶正在部署 FormFactor 的交鑰匙電光測量系統，該系統基於我們的 CM300 和 SUMMIT200 工程探針以及我們專有的 [steriods] 光學探針構建。

The highly differentiated optical probes that enable either surface or edge coupling to the photonic dye with unrivaled coupling efficiency, providing our customers with higher yields and shorter test times. As silicon photonics matures and moves to high-volume production in the coming years. We expect that our leadership positions in combined electrical and optical test will provide a new growth vector for both our systems and probe-card businesses.

高度差異化的光學探針能夠以無與倫比的耦合效率與光子染料進行表面或邊緣耦合，為我們的客戶提供更高的產量和更短的測試時間。隨著矽光子學的成熟並在未來幾年轉向大批量生產。我們預計，我們在電氣和光學測試領域的領先地位將為我們的系統和探針卡業務提供新的成長動力。

In closing, we're excited about both our strong second-quarter results and our solid third quarter outlook as the accelerating adoption of advanced packaging drives increased demand across FormFactor's lab to fab product portfolio.

最後，我們對強勁的第二季業績和穩健的第三季前景感到興奮，因為先進封裝的加速採用推動了 FormFactor 實驗室到晶圓廠產品組合的需求增加。

Longer term, we're confident in the growth prospects for FormFactor in the industry overall, driven by the fundamental trends of semiconductor content growth in advanced packaging innovations like HBM, chiplets and co-packaged silicon photonics.

從長遠來看，在 HBM、小晶片和共封裝矽光子等先進封裝創新中半導體內容成長基本趨勢的推動下，我們對 FormFactor 在整個產業的成長前景充滿信心。

It is evident from our recent results and outlook. These are trends were FormFactor's well positioned, and we're confident that our investments in R&D capacity and talent will further enhance FormFactor's market leadership. This will enable us to achieve and then surpass our target model that delivers $2 of non-GAAP earnings per share on $850 million of revenue. Shai, over to you.

從我們最近的業績和展望中可以明顯看出這一點。FormFactor 對這些趨勢做好了充分的準備，我們相信我們對研發能力和人才的投資將進一步增強 FormFactor 的市場領導地位。這將使我們能夠實現並超越我們的目標模型，即在 8.5 億美元的收入中實現 2 美元的非 GAAP 每股盈餘。謝伊，交給你了。

Thank you, Mike, and good afternoon. As you saw in our press release, Q2 revenues were $197.5 million, $2.5 million above the midpoint of our outlook range. And non-GAAP gross margin of 45.3% was 0.3-percentage-points above the midpoint of the range. These, together with OpEx slightly lower than the midpoint of the outlook, resulted in non-GAAP EPS at the top end of the range.

謝謝你，麥克，下午好。正如您在我們的新聞稿中看到的，第二季度收入為 1.975 億美元，比我們的展望範圍中點高出 250 萬美元。非 GAAP 毛利率為 45.3%，比該範圍的中點高出 0.3 個百分點。這些，再加上略低於預期中點的營運支出，導致非公認會計準則每股收益處於該範圍的上限。

Second quarter revenues increased 17% sequentially from the first quarter and increased 26.7% year-over-year from Q2 '23 revenues. The upside versus the midpoint of the outlook range was due to higher revenues in our probe-card segment.

第二季營收比第一季連續成長 17%，比 2023 年第二季營收年增 26.7%。展望範圍的上行與中點相比是由於我們的探針卡領域的收入增加。

Probe-card segment revenues were $167 million in the second quarter, an increase of $30 million or 22% from the first quarter. The increase was driven mainly by higher Foundry and Logic and DRAM revenue Systems segment revenues were $30.7 million in Q2, the $1.3 million decrease from the first quarter and comprised 15.5% of total company revenues, down from 19% in the first quarter.

第二季探針卡業務收入為 1.67 億美元，比第一季增加 3,000 萬美元，成長 22%。這一成長主要是由於晶圓代工、邏輯和DRAM 收入增加所致。一季的19%。

Within the probe-card segment, Q2 foundry and logic revenues were $104 million, a 19.5% increase from the first quarter. Foundry and Logic revenues increased to 52.5% of total company revenues compared to 51.4% in the first quarter.

在探針卡領域，第二季代工和邏輯收入為 1.04 億美元，比第一季成長 19.5%。代工和邏輯收入占公司總收入的比例從第一季的 51.4% 增加到 52.5%。

DRAM revenues were a record $58 million in Q2, $12.1 million or 26.5% higher than in the first quarter and rose to 29.4% of total quarterly revenues as compared to 27.2% in the first quarter. Within [theorem] HBM revenue almost doubled from $22 million in Q1 to over $43 million in the second quarter.

第二季 DRAM 營收達到創紀錄的 5,800 萬美元，比第一季增加 1,210 萬美元，成長 26.5%，佔季總營收的比例也從第一季的 27.2% 上升至 29.4%。根據[定理]，HBM 收入幾乎翻了一番，從第一季的 2,200 萬美元增至第二季的 4,300 萬美元以上。

Flash revenues of $5.1 million in Q2 were $1.1 million higher than in the first quarter, and we're at 2.6% of total revenues in Q2 as compared to 2.4% in Q1. GAAP gross margin for the second quarter was 44% as compared to 37.2% in Q1.

第二季快閃記憶體收入為 510 萬美元，比第一季高出 110 萬美元，佔第二季總收入的 2.6%，而第一季為 2.4%。第二季 GAAP 毛利率為 44%，第一季為 37.2%。

Cost of revenues included $2.5 million of GAAP to non-GAAP reconciling items, which we outlined in our press release issued today and in the reconciliation table available in the Investor Relations section of our website.

收入成本包括 250 萬美元的 GAAP 與非 GAAP 調節項目，我們在今天發布的新聞稿以及我們網站投資者關係部分提供的調整表中對此進行了概述。

On a non-GAAP basis, gross margin for the second quarter was 45.3%, 6.6-percentage-points higher than the 38.7% non-GAAP gross margin in Q1 and 0.3-percentage-points above the midpoint of our outlook range.

以非 GAAP 基準計算，第二季毛利率為 45.3%，比第一季 38.7% 的非 GAAP 毛利率高 6.6 個百分點，比我們展望範圍的中點高 0.3 個百分點。

The increases compared to Q1 was mostly the result of higher gross margin in the probe-card segment. While we expect fluctuations quarter over quarter, mainly due to product mix changes. Achieving these 45.2% gross margin in the second quarter validates our progress towards our 47% target financial model non-GAAP gross margin at annual revenue of $850 million.

與第一季相比的成長主要是由於探針卡領域毛利率較高。雖然我們預期季度之間會出現波動，但這主要是由於產品結構的變化。第二季實現 45.2% 的毛利率，驗證了我們在實現年收入 8.5 億美元的非 GAAP 財務模型毛利率 47% 目標方面取得的進展。

Our probe-card segment gross margin was 45.1% in the second quarter, an increase of 8-percentage-points compared to 37.2% in Q1. Our Q2 system segment gross margin was 46.2%, an increase of 0.9-percentage-points compared to 45.2% gross margin in the first quarter.

第二季我們的探針卡業務毛利率為45.1%，比第一季的37.2%成長了8個百分點。第二季系統業務毛利率為46.2%，較一季45.2%的毛利率成長0.9個百分點。

As compared to Q1, approximately two-thirds of the increase in non-GAAP gross margin is attributable to the higher volume and the remaining third relates to a more favorable products. Our GAAP operating expenses were $69.4 million for the second-quarter as compared to $61.7 million in the first-quarter.

與第一季相比，非公認會計準則毛利率成長的約三分之二歸因於銷售量的增加，其餘三分之一則與較受歡迎的產品有關。我們第二季的 GAAP 營運費用為 6,940 萬美元，而第一季為 6,170 萬美元。

Non-GAAP operating expenses for the second quarter was $60.9 million or 30.8% of revenues, as compared with $52.3 million or 31% of revenues in Q1. The $8.5 million increase relates mainly to highlight two higher performance-based compensation.

第二季非 GAAP 營運費用為 6,090 萬美元，佔營收的 30.8%，而第一季為 5,230 萬美元，佔營收的 31%。850 萬美元的成長主要是為了強調兩項更高的基於績效的薪酬。

Company non-cash expenses for the second quarter included $10.2 million for stock-based compensation, $0.6 million for amortization of acquisition related intangibles and depreciation of $7.4 million, all similar to the first quarter.

第二季公司非現金支出包括 1,020 萬美元的股票薪酬、60 萬美元的收購相關無形資產攤銷以及 740 萬美元的折舊，均與第一季相似。

GAAP operating income was $17.8 million for Q2 compared with GAAP operating income of $21.3 million in Q1. Non-GAAP operating income for the second quarter more than doubled to $28.5 million compared with $13 million in the first quarter, an increase of $15.6 million or 120%, demonstrating the leverage in our operating model.

第二季 GAAP 營業收入為 1,780 萬美元，而第一季 GAAP 營業收入為 2,130 萬美元。第二季非 GAAP 營業收入比第一季的 1,300 萬美元增加了一倍多，達到 2,850 萬美元，增加了 1,560 萬美元，即 120%，證明了我們營運模式的槓桿作用。

GAAP net income for the second quarter was $19.4 million, or $0.25 per fully diluted share compared with a GAAP net income of $21.8 million or $0.28 per fully diluted share in the previous quarter. GAAP net income in Q1 included a gain of $20 million from the divesture of our Chinese subsidiaries.

第二季 GAAP 淨利潤為 1,940 萬美元，或完全稀釋每股 0.25 美元，而上一季 GAAP 淨利潤為 2,180 萬美元，或完全稀釋每股 0.28 美元。第一季 GAAP 淨利潤包括因剝離中國子公司而獲得的 2,000 萬美元收益。

The non-GAAP effective tax rate for the second quarter was 15.4%, 1.7-percentage-points higher than the 13.7% in the first quarter, and we continue to expect our annual non-GAAP effective tax rate to be between 14% and 18%.

第二季非 GAAP 有效稅率為 15.4%，比第一季的 13.7% 高出 1.7 個百分點，我們繼續預期年度非 GAAP 有效稅率在 14% 至 18% 之間。

Second quarter non-GAAP net income almost doubled to $27.3 million or $0.35 per fully-diluted share compared to $14.3 million or $0.18 per fully diluted share in Q1. Q2 EPS was $0.17 higher due to significantly higher revenues and higher gross margins with relatively flat OpEx as a percentage of revenue.

第二季非 GAAP 淨利潤幾乎翻了一番，達到 2,730 萬美元，即完全稀釋每股 0.35 美元，而第一季為 1,430 萬美元，即完全稀釋每股 0.18 美元。第二季每股收益成長 0.17 美元，原因是收入顯著增加、毛利率提高，而營運支出佔收入的比例相對持平。

Moving to the balance sheet and cash flow, we generated free cash flow of $14.2 million in the second quarter compared to $19.7 million in Q1. The main reasons for the decrease in free cash flows was increased working capital attributable to the revenue growth, partially offset by lower capital expenditure spending of $5 million.

轉向資產負債表和現金流，我們第二季產生的自由現金流為 1,420 萬美元，而第一季為 1,970 萬美元。自由現金流減少的主要原因是收入成長帶來的營運資本增加，但部分被資本支出減少 500 萬美元所抵銷。

We invested $8.4 million in capital expenditures during the second quarter compared to $13.4 million in Q1. There's no change in our previously communicated expected CapEx range for 2024 of $35 million to $45 million. At quarter end, total cash and investments were $366 million, an increase of $8 million from Q1. At the end of the second quarter, we had one term loan remaining with the balance totaling $14 million.

第二季我們投資了 840 萬美元的資本支出，而第一季為 1,340 萬美元。我們先前傳達的 2024 年預期資本支出範圍為 3,500 萬美元至 4,500 萬美元，沒有變動。截至季末，現金和投資總額為 3.66 億美元，比第一季增加 800 萬美元。第二季末，我們還剩一筆定期貸款，餘額總計 1,400 萬美元。

Regarding stock buyback, during the second quarter, we used $2.9 million to buy back shares under the $75 million two-year buyback program that was approved in Q4 2023.

關於股票回購，在第二季度，我們根據 2023 年第四季度批准的 7,500 萬美元的兩年期回購計畫使用了 290 萬美元回購股票。

At quarter end, $53.5 million remain available under that authorization. As a reminder, the main purpose of the share repurchase program is to offset dilution from stock-based compensation.

截至季末，該授權仍有 5,350 萬美元可用。需要提醒的是，股票回購計畫的主要目的是抵銷股票薪酬的稀釋效果。

Turning to the third-quarter non-GAAP outlook, we expect Q3 revenue of $200 million plus or minus $5 million with a slight increase over Q2 coming from DRAM systems, within DRAM and we also expect a mix shift with a higher percentage of DDR5 versus HBM revenue.

談到第三季非GAAP 前景，我們預計第三季營收將達到2 億美元上下500 萬美元，其中來自DRAM 系統的營收比第二季略有成長，我們也預期DDR5 的比例將高於DDR5 。

Third quarter non-GAAP gross margin is expected to be 43% plus or minus 150 basis points, expect a decrease in non-GAAP gross margins in the third quarter at the midpoint of the outlook range on slightly higher revenues relates to a less favorable product mix with DRAM revenues as a percentage of total revenue is expected to increase and HBM revenue within the route is expected to decrease

第三季非 GAAP 毛利率預計為 43%，上下浮動 150 個基點，預計第三季非 GAAP 毛利率將下降至展望範圍的中點，因為收入略高與產品不太有利有關與DRAM 收入佔總收入的百分比預計將增加，而HBM 路線內的收入預計將減少

At the midpoint of these outlook ranges. We expect Q3 operating expenses to be $61 million plus or minus $2 million similar to Q2. Non-GAAP earnings per fully diluted share for Q3 is expected to be $0.31 plus or minus $0.04 and a reconciliation of our GAAP to non-GAAP Q3 outlook is available on the Investor Relations section of our website and in our press release issued today.

位於這些前景範圍的中點。我們預計第三季營運費用為 6,100 萬美元上下 200 萬美元，與第二季類似。第三季完全稀釋後每股非 GAAP 收益預計為 0.31 美元上下 0.04 美元，我們網站的投資者關係部分和今天發布的新聞稿中提供了我們的 GAAP 與非 GAAP 第三季度展望的調整表。

With that, let's open the call for questions. Operator.

接下來，讓我們開始提問。操作員。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Craig Ellis, B. Riley Securities.

克雷格·艾利斯，B.萊利證券。

Thanks for taking the question and congratulations on the execution, guys. And Mike, I wanted to start just by following up on a point you made with regard to high-bandwidth memory, I think you indicated the company expected that after some digestion and the third quarter growth could reaccelerate there. I was hoping you could just share some of that either customer interaction or things that you're seeing that lend confidence to the reacceleration?

夥計們，感謝您提出問題並祝賀執行。麥克，我想先跟進您在高頻寬記憶體方面提出的觀點，我認為您表示公司預計經過一番消化後，第三季的成長可能會重新加速。我希望您能分享一些客戶互動或您所看到的為重新加速帶來信心的事情？

And any color on timing would be helpful. Thank you.

任何關於時間的顏色都會有幫助。謝謝。

Yeah. So Craig, good question. Just to level set, everybody. We again, in the second quarter, doubled HBM revenue to 75% of our DRAM revenue. So really significant contribution from that, as I think most of you know, is pretty concentrated with a single customer, although each of the three major DRAM manufacturers, you have contributions in there and it's not unusual when we ship at that scale for a customer to have a period of digestion where they then use the probe-cards for a quarter.

是的。克雷格，問得好。各位，只是為了達到水平。第二季度，我們再次將 HBM 收入翻了一番，達到 DRAM 收入的 75%。因此，正如我想你們大多數人都知道的那樣，真正重大的貢獻相當集中於單一客戶，儘管三大DRAM 製造商中的每一個都有貢獻，當我們為客戶提供如此規模的產品時，這並不罕見進行一段時間的消化，然後使用探針卡四分之一的時間。

You can see this historically through our major customers as they're in their cadence quarter to quarter that we report for a 10% customer. And so what gives us confidence that this is that digestion, I think a couple of things. If I look at it from a macro level, continued hyperscaler investment in generative AI, which in turn is driving our customers, our DRAM customers to increase their capacity and output of HBM3 and three currently and beginning to do development on HBM4 and HBM5 production.

您可以透過我們的主要客戶從歷史上看到這一點，因為我們報告的 10% 客戶的季度週期都是如此。因此，是什麼讓我們相信這就是消化，我認為有幾件事。如果我從宏觀層面來看，超大規模企業對生成式人工智慧的持續投資，這反過來又推動我們的客戶、我們的DRAM 客戶增加目前HBM3 和HBM3 的產能和產量，並開始開發HBM4 和HBM5 生產。

And really in conversations with those customers. There's no there's no pause in that. They really are continuing to invest very heavily in this pretty lucrative part of the DRAM market, again, driven by hyperscaler investments.

並且確實在與這些客戶的對話中。沒有，沒有停頓。在超大規模投資的推動下，他們確實繼續在 DRAM 市場這個利潤豐厚的部分進行大量投資。

In our direct visibility, as most of you know, is pretty limited. We operate with lead times of less than a quarter. And so in terms of POs and backlog, we can't see much past the end of the third quarter here. But when we look at the conversations we're having with these customers, when we look at the investments, the hyperscalers are making it does seem like that's pretty reasonable to attribute this Q3 are still HBM still at pretty healthy levels. It's a digestion period.

正如你們大多數人所知，我們的直接可見度非常有限。我們的交貨時間不到四分之一。因此，就採購訂單和積壓訂單而言，我們在第三季末看不到太多內容。但是，當我們審視與這些客戶的對話時，當我們審視投資時，超大規模企業確實認為第三季 HBM 仍處於相當健康的水平似乎是相當合理的。這是一個消化期。

That's really helpful, Mike, thanks.

這真的很有幫助，麥克，謝謝。

And then the follow-up question is somewhat similar three months ago. You noted that a foundry logic customer, formerly the largest customer for this last quarter where it's now DRAM and would at times in the past are go through a period of digestion after a really strong quarter? Are you seeing signs? And is that baked in the guidance that we will see that digestion in the third quarter? Or how are you thinking about the risk that that could happen at this point?

然後後續的問題和三個月前有些類似。您注意到代工邏輯客戶（以前是上個季度的最大客戶，現在是 DRAM），過去有時會在一個真正強勁的季度之後經歷消化期？你看到跡象了嗎？我們將在第三季度看到消化的指導中是否包含這一點？或者您如何看待此時可能發生的風險？

Yeah, foundry and logic overall, we see in the third quarter pretty comparable to the second quarter, both from overall levels and customer and product mix. And I think this is really another proof points associated with how advanced packaging is driving our business.

是的，總體而言，代工和邏輯，我們認為第三季與第二季相當，無論是從總體水平還是客戶和產品組合來看。我認為這確實是先進包裝如何推動我們業務的另一個證據。

You see major customers, certainly in compute, but also to some extent in mobile beginning to adopt advanced packaging tech more beginning to adopt advanced packaging. And we see that with across the compute sector technologies like Foveros and co-los, even as the PC market remains, PC end market remains somewhat muted.

您會看到主要客戶，當然在計算領域，而且在某種程度上在行動領域也開始採用先進的封裝技術，更多地開始採用先進的封裝。我們看到，隨著 Foveros 和 co-los 等整個計算領域的技術的發展，即使 PC 市場仍然存在，但 PC 終端市場仍然有些低迷。

We're seeing pretty solid demand for probe cards because of the increase in test intensity and complexity driven by advanced packaging in the sector. So Q3, pretty similar to second quarter in foundry and logic from an overall customer and product mix perspective, again, driven by advanced packaging.

由於該行業的先進封裝推動了測試強度和複雜性的增加，我們看到對探針卡的需求相當強勁。因此，從整體客戶和產品組合的角度來看，第三季的代工和邏輯與第二季非常相似，同樣受到先進封裝的推動。

That's really helpful. And then just the observation on that, Mike, would be sense. Those are heterogeneous die based products are such a small part of mix now but over time will become a majority of mix that would seem to be a real nice long-term secular tailwind for the business?

這真的很有幫助。麥克，對此的觀察就是有意義的。這些基於異質晶片的產品現在只佔組合的一小部分，但隨著時間的推移將成為組合的大部分，這似乎對業務來說是真正良好的長期長期推動力？

Yeah, I think across the industry, it's a really interesting and compelling secular opportunity for those of us exposed to advanced packaging.

是的，我認為在整個行業中，對於我們這些接觸先進封裝的人來說，這是一個非常有趣且引人注目的長期機會。

Thanks, Mike. Good luck in 3Q.

謝謝，麥克。祝第三季好運。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Charles Shi, Needham & Company

查爾斯‧施 (Charles Shi)，李約瑟公司

Hi, Mike, so good afternoon and thanks for letting me ask two questions. The first one, it's about DDR5 versus HBM. I think prior to this quarter, the way you characterize the DRAM probe-card market was if you back out HBN., the standard DRAM or DDR probe-card were still run rating around that. I would say $20 million-ish, that downturn level. Basically, it looks like next quarter, the September quarter, you're expecting a somewhat similar, maybe a DRAM total revenue, but up since you're talking about mix shift from away from HBM more to DDR5

嗨，麥克，下午好，謝謝你讓我問兩個問題。第一個是關於 DDR5 與 HBM 的比較。我認為在本季之前，您描述 DRAM 探針卡市場的方式是，如果您退出 HBN，標準 DRAM 或 DDR 探針卡的運行評級仍圍繞此。我想說 2000 萬美元左右，就是經濟低迷時期的水平。基本上，看起來下個季度，即 9 月的季度，您預計會有類似的 DRAM 總收入，但由於您正在談論從 HBM 轉向 DDR5 的混合轉變，因此有所上升

Would you characterize maybe this is the beginning of the standard year end recovery or this is maybe just a one-off quarter? I just wanted to know the sustainability of the DDR5 probe-card growth from here?

您是否認為這可能是標準年終復甦的開始，或者這可能只是一次性季度？我只是想知道 DDR5 探針卡增長的可持續性從這裡開始？

Yeah. It's an interesting question is, as you might imagine, we're having similar discussions internally and with our customers. I think if you look at the overall non-HBM DRAM market, we're characterizing it as DDR5, but that's a pretty broad brush that low-power server and compute, and you're seeing a significant step-up here in the third quarter to levels that are comparable to the previous cyclical highs.

是的。這是一個有趣的問題，正如您可能想像的那樣，我們正在內部以及與客戶進行類似的討論。我認為，如果您看一下整個非 HBM DRAM 市場，我們將其描述為 DDR5，但這是低功耗伺服器和計算的一個相當廣泛的範圍，並且您會在第三個季度看到顯著的進步季度達到與之前的周期性高點相當的水平。

Now when we see and where HBM is we said there's a bit of a one quarter digestion period, and that's not unusual. Remember, probe-cards are specific to each customer chip design. And so as customers move their wafer starts in back and forth between technologies and different products for them to optimize their output for their market.

現在，當我們看到 HBM 的位置時，我們說有一點四分之一的消化期，這並不罕見。請記住，探針卡特定於每個客戶的晶片設計。因此，當客戶在技術和不同產品之間來回移動晶圓時，他們可以優化其市場的產量。

We can see these pretty significant swings between designs and market segments and submarkets and whether this is the start of a DRAM upturn, I think is still to be seen, but it is encouraging if you've seen DRAM spot pricing, if you've heard as the narrative from our customers on the overall DRAM market improving certainly may be the beginning of an upturn for now.

我們可以看到設計、細分市場和子市場之間的這些相當顯著的波動，這是否是DRAM 好轉的開始，我認為還有待觀察，但如果您看到DRAM 現貨定價，如果您看過，這是令人鼓舞的從我們的客戶那裡聽到的關於整體 DRAM 市場改善的說法無疑可能是目前好轉的開始。

We just don't have the visibility to say so whether it is or not, but nice to be again operating our DRAM business, a very important business for us up at record levels.

無論是否如此，我們只是沒有能力這麼說，但很高興再次經營我們的 DRAM 業務，這對我們來說是一項非常重要的業務，並達到了創紀錄的水平。

Thanks, Mike. I have a follow-up on the foundry logic side of the business, it's up in Q2 was up foundry logic probe card was up in Q2 by quite a lot about, but your largest microprocessor customers, the revenue you do disclose on a quarterly basis generally.

謝謝，麥克。我對業務的代工邏輯方面有一個後續行動，它在第二季度有所增長，代工邏輯探針卡在第二季度增長了很多，但是您最大的微處理器客戶，您每季度披露的收入一般來說。

So up mean as much I mean, it doesn't explain all the incremental you're seeing in the foundry logic side and so this kind of a mid-year stress money. If you clarify a little bit of what's driving that outside of this microprocessor company and more importantly, going into next quarter, who is driving that incremental growth in foundry logic probe-card?

因此，上升的意思和我的意思一樣，它並不能解釋你在代工邏輯方面看到的所有增量，以及這種年中壓力資金。如果您澄清一點是什麼推動了這家微處理器公司之外的發展，更重要的是，進入下個季度，誰在推動代工邏輯探針卡的增量增長？

Yeah, we often see this midyear strength in mobile application processors. If you look at phone release, cadences and work back to the timing where customers are going to need probe cards for those. That's exactly what we're seeing right now. And we talked about it on the last call with the anticipated second quarter strength, which materialized being associated both with microprocessors, but also at midyear, our releases of these mobile application processors.

是的，我們經常看到行動應用處理器在年中表現強勁。如果您查看電話發布、節奏並回溯到客戶需要探針卡的時間。這正是我們現在所看到的。我們在最後一次電話會議上談到了預期的第二季度實力，這與微處理器有關，而且在年中我們發布了這些行動應用處理器。

That's a theme that we see carrying through the second quarter. Again, we see foundry and logic having a similar level and profile in the third-quarter as in the second-quarter and so beyond that, again, visibility pretty limited, but we're pretty happy with how we're executing in the broader foundry and logic market.

我們認為這是第二季的主題。同樣，我們看到代工和邏輯在第三季度與第二季度具有相似的水平和概況，因此除此之外，可見性非常有限，但我們對我們在更廣泛的領域的執行方式感到非常滿意代工和邏輯市場。

Always some improvements, always some share to gain, but that's both of those factors driving our Foundry Logic strength in the middle part of the year.

總是會有一些改進，總是會有一些分享，但這兩個因素在今年中期推動了我們 Foundry Logic 的實力。

And maybe a quick follow-up to that. Do you see a little bit of a mix shift in foundry logic probe-cards from Q2 to Q3? Thanks.

也許是對此的快速跟進。您是否看到代工邏輯探針卡從第二季到第三季出現了一些混合變化？謝謝。

No, it's very similar Charles.

不，這與查爾斯非常相似。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Tom Diffely, D.A. Davidson.

湯姆·迪夫利，D.A.戴維森。

Yes, good afternoon, thank you, Mike. I was curious when you look at the high-bandwidth memory ramp that you've had this year, how much of that was driven by just increasing volumes of high-bandwidth memory versus a design change? And then if there is a big shift to the next generation design, what does that do to your business?

是的，下午好，謝謝你，麥克。我很好奇，當您查看今年的高頻寬記憶體增長情況時，其中有多少是由高頻寬記憶體數量的增加與設計變更驅動的？如果下一代設計發生重大轉變，這會對您的業務產生什麼影響？

Yeah, as we've said, probe cards are a design specific consumable and so there's these two pieces. There's the release of a new design, but there's also the number of wafer starts at number of test cells and therefore, probe cards that need to run on this design.

是的，正如我們所說，探針卡是一種特定設計的消耗品，因此有這兩塊。有新設計的發布，但也有測試單元數量的晶圓起始數量，因此需要在此設計上運行的探針卡。

I'd characterize the growth in the second quarter of the HBM business being concentrated across, let's call it in round numbers, 10 designs that are really the high runners driving the growth. And so that could be one ship remember, HBM and a stack of mostly eight high DRAM, but there's a base die. There's test insertions for the eight core die and then there's also a test insertion when the customers done stacking.

我認為 HBM 業務第二季的成長主要集中在（讓我們以整數表示）10 種設計上，這些設計確實是推動成長的高手。因此，請記住，這可能是一艘船、HBM 和一堆主要由 8 個高 DRAM 組成的堆疊，但有一個基礎晶片。對八個核心晶片進行測試插入，然後在客戶完成堆疊後進行測試插入。

Each of those three sets of probe-cards is a unique fleet of probe cards and so that's part of the test intensity increase associated with HBM in particular and advanced packaging in general. But it more than a handful of designs really driving the strength.

這三組探針卡中的每組都是獨特的探針卡組，因此這是與 HBM（特別是 HBM）和一般先進封裝相關的測試強度增加的一部分。但真正推動力量的不僅是少數設計。

And then when you look at the business next year in '25, do you think it's pretty well split between the three main suppliers? Are you still going to be very leveraged to one of the players.

然後，當您查看明年 25 年的業務時，您認為三大主要供應商之間的分配是否相當好？你是否仍然會對其中一名球員有很大的影響力？

No, I think you know, as they said, we currently see contributions from all three manufacturers, although we're over-indexed to the leader in HBM market share and a fundamental tenet of our strategy is to make sure that we're a key supplier at the leading edge to all major customer.

不，我想你知道，正如他們所說，我們目前看到了所有三個製造商的貢獻，儘管我們對 HBM 市場份額的領導者的指數過高，而且我們戰略的基本宗旨是確保我們是對所有主要客戶而言處於領先地位的主要供應商。

And so qualification work is ongoing and both of them were in a position positioned to compete for that business as HBM3 and HBM4 out. Those are opportunities for our customer share development and for us to go compete for new business as well.

因此，資格認證工作正在進行中，隨著 HBM3 和 HBM4 的退出，他們都處於競爭該業務的位置。這些是我們發展客戶份額的機會，也是我們爭取新業務的機會。

And then final question, Shai. When you look at the margin guidance for the next quarter, is it simply the decrease of high-bandwidth memory as a percentage of product mix issue?

最後一個問題，Shai。當您查看下一季的利潤指引時，您會發現這只是高頻寬記憶體佔產品組合問題百分比的下降嗎？

While, it's a combination of DRAM revenue overall as a higher percentage revenue and within DRAM, the shift from HBM to DDR5, so this is both of them.

同時，它是 DRAM 整體收入（較高百分比收入）和 DRAM 內部從 HBM 轉向 DDR5 的轉變的組合，所以這是兩者。

Okay, great. Thank you.

好的，太好了。謝謝。

Thank you, Tom.

謝謝你，湯姆。

Christian Schwab, Craig-Hallum.

克里斯蒂安·施瓦布，克雷格·哈勒姆。

Great. Thanks for taking my questions. So just again on high-bandwidth memory, we can kind of back into the math, pretty modest revenue from the other two big guys as we get into 2025, do you think you have no three meaningful customers in that space, or do you think that there's the potential for as the other two guys get up to speed and they begin to take share.

偉大的。感謝您回答我的問題。因此，在高頻寬記憶體方面，我們可以回到數學上，進入 2025 年時，其他兩家大公司的收入相當有限，您認為您在該領域沒有三個有意義的客戶嗎？步伐並開始分享份額時，就有潛力。

I'm just trying to size what your expectations and '25 and '26 are for high-bandwidth memory as the other two guys come to market that I've talked about being sold out for next year.

我只是想確定一下您對 '25 和 '26 對高頻寬記憶體的期望，因為另外兩個人進入市場，我已經談到明年會售罄。

Yeah, we'll remember if we back out a little bit, we're a key supplier to all three major DRAM manufacturers in DDR4, DDR5 and we hope to be for HBM as well. Currently, one of them owns the lion's share of HBM shipments. And so that's why we're over-indexed to that customer.

是的，如果我們退縮一點，我們會記住，我們是 DDR4、DDR5 三大 DRAM 製造商的主要供應商，我們也希望成為 HBM 的主要供應商。目前，其中一家擁有 HBM 出貨量的最大份額。這就是我們對該客戶過度索引的原因。

But again, as Tom asked, we do expect and as vague as the other two DRAM manufacturers gain share in the transition from HBM3 to HBM4 work their way through some pretty significant technical and yield challenges in ramping this up.

但正如Tom 所問的，我們確實期望，並且與其他兩家DRAM 製造商在從HBM3 到HBM4 的過渡中獲得份額一樣模糊，他們會在提高這一速度的過程中克服一些相當重大的技術和產量挑戰。

We do expect that share to balance out a little bit. So, you know, as we look into '25, the transition to HBM4 certainly exciting for us. It raises the speed requirements for the probe-card. So again, a notch up in complexity and as customers go to stacking 12 and even 16 high die. That obviously is going to increase the overall test intensity and complexity and testing that overall stack.

我們確實預計這一份額會有所平衡。所以，您知道，當我們展望 25 世紀時，向 HBM4 的過渡對我們來說無疑是令人興奮的。它提高了對探針卡的速度要求。再次強調，隨著客戶開始堆疊 12 個甚至 16 個高晶片，複雜性又上升了一個檔次。這顯然會增加整體測試強度和複雜性以及測試整個堆疊。

So we feel like we're in a pretty strong competitive position even as the share starts to balance among all three DRAM manufacturers.

因此，即使所有三家 DRAM 製造商的份額開始平衡，我們仍感覺自己處於相當強大的競爭地位。

In the follow-up to that, on the high-bandwidth memory for transition, you know, given as you said, the speed and increase stacking capabilities, I would assume that there should be some pricing power on those probe-cards, not all the way, obviously to foundry and logic levels, but potentially higher than where we sit today. Is that fair?

接下來，在用於過渡的高頻寬記憶體上，您知道，鑑於您所說的速度和增加的堆疊能力，我認為這些探針卡應該有一定的定價能力，而不是所有探針卡顯然，到了代工和邏輯水平，但可能比我們今天所處的水平更高。這樣公平嗎？

Yeah, that's fair. And one of the reasons right, we touched on it in a question a couple of minutes ago, but the mix shift away from HBM towards DDR5 inside DRAM at these high levels, certainly as a gross margin hit. And so you can connect the dots there, our ability to build probe cards that are highly differentiated and provide a lot of value to our customers in testing it speed and across multiple temperatures in a very complex mechanical situation.

是的，這很公平。正確的原因之一是，我們在幾分鐘前的問題中談到了這一點，但在如此高的水平下，DRAM 內部的混合從 HBM 轉向 DDR5，這無疑會影響毛利率。因此，您可以將這些點連接起來，我們有能力建立高度差異化的探針卡，並為我們的客戶在非常複雜的機械情況下測試其速度和跨多個溫度提供大量價值。

You're testing a whole 300 millimeters wafer of the stack die across a temperature range of over 100 degrees Celsius. And you can imagine the thermal scaling challenges associated with that are significant. And that's why HBM probe-cards worth more.

您正在超過攝氏 100 度的溫度範圍內測試整個 300 毫米晶圓的堆疊晶片。您可以想像與此相關的熱縮放挑戰是巨大的。這就是 HBM 探針卡更有價值的原因。

Great. And then my second question is now we've got two quarters of call it at roughly $200 million, which is kind of the target model. Do you guys have a set expectations when you plan on updating your target model?

偉大的。我的第二個問題是，現在我們有兩個季度的估值約為 2 億美元，這是目標模型。當你們計劃更新目標模型時，你們有設定的期望嗎？

Sure. I'll take this one, Christian. So we are two quarters at $200 million, but the target model is a little higher than that, right. If you take the $850 million, it's about [210, 212]. So what we want to do is what we have done in the past once we have a quarter or two at this model run rate. And I agree we're getting closer to it, but we're not there yet. Then we'll set up a date schedule, a new analyst day and then work on publishing the new target model. So we're not there yet but stay tuned.

當然。我想要這個，克里斯蒂安。所以我們兩個季度的目標是 2 億美元，但目標模型比這個高一點，對吧。如果拿走這 8.5 億美元，大約是[210, 212]。因此，我們想要做的是我們過去所做的事情，一旦我們有四分之一或兩個季度處於這個模型的運行速度。我同意我們正在接近這一目標，但我們還沒有實現。然後我們將製定一個日期計劃、一個新的分析師日，然後致力於發布新的目標模型。所以我們還沒到那一步，但請繼續關注。

Got it, sounds great. Thank you guys.

明白了，聽起來很棒。謝謝你們。

Thanks, Christian.

謝謝，克里斯蒂安。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Brian Chin, Stifel.

布萊恩·欽，斯蒂菲爾。

Thanks for letting us ask a few questions on Mike, can you comment whether you expect sort of that the mix shift you're seeing in the DRAM business to persist into Q4? And I guess that's kind of the first question, because I guess maybe it's like I heard 50 basis points to 80 basis points headwind or something relative to what it was in 2Q. And so and that's, I guess the first question.

感謝您讓我們向 Mike 提出一些問題，您能否評論一下您是否預計 DRAM 業務中看到的這種混合變化會持續到第四季度？我想這是第一個問題，因為我想也許我聽到了 50 個基點到 80 個基點的逆風或相對於第二季的情況。我想這就是第一個問題。

Yeah, Brian, it's Mike. I'll take that. I think in terms of timing, I'll again caveat this with our visibility, our direct visibility, it doesn't really go much past the end of 3Q here, we're operating with short lead times. We certainly have forecasts from our customers.

是的，布萊恩，是麥克。我會接受的。我認為就時間安排而言，我會再次用我們的可見性、我們的直接可見性來警告這一點，它並沒有真正超過第三季末，我們的交貨時間很短。我們當然有客戶的預測。

But the dramatic shift in DRAM towards production capacity for DDR5 is something that's a relatively dynamic situation, whether it persists or not is something that probably we need a few more weeks or months to really get a read on from our direct backlog, having said that, you know, if you do look at the and you know that the underlying DRAM market DDR4 and DDR5, low-power server and PC, they do seem to be strengthening and so it wouldn't be all that surprising if there was a shift of some capacity and towards those markets and we saw a bit growth in the non HBM parts of the market a little bit early to tell. And again, our visibility doesn't go that far into the future, but some of the fundamental factors are in place for a DRAM recovery agenda.

但 DRAM 向 DDR5 產能的巨大轉變是一個相對動態的情況，無論這種情況是否持續，我們可能還需要幾週或幾個月的時間才能真正從我們的直接積壓訂單中了解情況，話雖如此，你知道，如果你確實關註一下，就會知道底層DRAM 市場DDR4 和DDR5、低功耗伺服器和PC，它們似乎確實在增強，因此如果出現轉變，也就不足為奇了一些容量並針對這些市場，我們看到市場的非HBM 部分出現了一些成長。再說一次，我們的能見度並沒有那麼遠，但 DRAM 恢復議程的一些基本因素已經到位。

Yeah, I was even thinking, yes, Samsung seem pretty confident last night that their HBM3 shipments, if they are the dominant player, but they would accelerate substantially in the back half of the year. So maybe that 3Q, but I imagine that could factor in your outlook for HBM at some point in the second half?

是的，我甚至在想，是的，三星昨晚似乎對他們的 HBM3 出貨量非常有信心，如果他們是主導者的話，但他們將在今年下半年大幅加速。所以也許是第三季度，但我想這可能會影響您對下半年某個時候 HBM 的展望？

That's right.

這是正確的。

Okay, and I don't know if anyone asked, but in terms of the I missed this part, but the China increased Q-on-Q, was that mainly just multinational of any kind of additional color on, what drove that?

好的，我不知道是否有人問過，但就我錯過了這一部分而言，中國增加了 Q-on-Q，這主要是跨國公司的任何類型的附加顏色，是什麼推動了這一點？

You know that there was announced a good topic to touched, reminder. So in Q2, a little over 10% China as a percentage of revenue and inside the Q3 look, we are forecasting a moderate increase. It will still be in the 10s, nowhere near the 40% to 50%. Some of the WFE suppliers have for China.

你知道宣布了一個值得感動的好話題，提醒一下。因此，在第二季度，中國市場佔營收的比例略高於 10%，從第三季的情況來看，我們預期會出現適度成長。仍將在 10 左右，遠低於 40% 到 50%。一些WFE供應商已經面向中國。

You remember, we've been pretty proactive in managing the situation. We divested our China operations. And then I formed an exclusive distributor ship with the with the purchaser of that business. And we're opportunistically serving the domestic China business as best we can in the face of some pretty significant geopolitical headwinds both from direct export controls and the China industry semiconductor response to stand up its own domestic semiconductor industry.

您還記得，我們​​在處理這種情況方面一直非常積極主動。我們剝離了中國業務。然後我與該業務的購買者組成了獨家經銷商。面對直接出口管制和中國半導體產業應對措施帶來的一些相當重大的地緣政治阻力，我們正在盡最大努力為中國國內業務提供服務，以支撐自己的國內半導體產業。

So we see a moderate increase. I don't see it as a theme where we're going to get significant contribution from the China business, again because of these almost structural geopolitical headwinds.

所以我們看到了適度的成長。我不認為這是一個我們將從中國業務中獲得重大貢獻的主題，同樣是因為這些幾乎是結構性的地緣政治阻力。

And let me just kind of get off topic here for one last question. On your energy efficiency usage bandwidth. These are obviously key themes in data center. I understand that silicon photonics is an area the company has invested and where are we on the adoption curve for co-packaged optics and how significant of a market opportunity could that be in maybe a couple of years?

讓我先岔開話題，問最後一個問題。關於您的能源效率使用頻寬。這些顯然是資料中心的關鍵主題。據我所知，矽光子學是該公司投資的一個領域，我們在聯合封裝光學元件的採用曲線上處於什麼位置，以及幾年後市場機會有多大？

Yeah, we are very early, as I said, just inching out of the lab where we've been engaged with customers for years and co-developing the fundamental measurement technologies like our Pharos optical probe, that allows customers faster test times and better overall yield because of its better signal-to-noise and coupling efficiency.

是的，正如我所說，我們還很早，剛走出實驗室，我們與客戶合作多年，共同開發基本測量技術，例如我們的Pharos 光學探頭，使客戶能夠更快地測試時間並獲得更好的整體性能由於其更好的信噪比和耦合效率。

But we've got a handful of tools inside production site that are in the very early stages of pilot production as you know. So this is one of the ways to help solve. It's not been entirely solved, but it helps solve a pretty significant problem associated with data centers. And that's energy consumption going to silicon photonics on chip-to-chip communication and the data center has the potential to impact the energy usage energy budgets for these data centers.

但如您所知，我們在生產現場擁有一些處於試生產早期階段的工具。所以這是幫助解決的方法之一。它尚未完全解決，但它有助於解決與資料中心相關的一個相當重要的問題。晶片間通訊和資料中心的矽光子學的能源消耗有可能影響這些資料中心的能源使用和能源預算。

And that's something the broader compute industry is going to have to confront as data centers become bigger and bigger users of electricity worldwide. So we view silicon photonics as something that's a I will not and yes, I think the timing probably at the earliest, late '25 into '26, where we start to see moving into the year, the curve of adoption and running significant volumes inside the foundries worldwide.

隨著資料中心在全球範圍內的用電規模越來越大，整個計算行業將不得不面對這個問題。因此，我們認為矽光子學是一種我不會的東西，是的，我認為最早可能是在 25 年末到 26 年，我們開始看到今年的採用曲線和運行量世界各地的鑄造廠。

Thanks, Mike.

謝謝，麥克。

Robert Mertens, TD Cowen.

羅伯特·默滕斯，TD·考恩。

Hi, this is Rob Mertens for Chris. Thanks for taking my questions. You mentioned the better than expected gross margins in the probe-card business, largely due to higher volumes and may be around 200 basis points or so attributed to the mix. Was the positive mix, largely the high-bandwidth memory increase or more of a general mix throughout both the Foundry Logic and memory end market?

大家好，我是克里斯的羅布‧默滕斯。感謝您回答我的問題。您提到探針卡業務的毛利率好於預期，這主要是由於產量增加，並且可能是由於混合因素導致的大約 200 個基點左右。積極的組合主要是高頻寬記憶體的增加，還是整個代工邏輯和記憶體終端市場的整體組合？

So if you refer to Q2 we were right on spot, right. Gross margin was 45.3% versus midpoint of the outlook of 45%. I'm not sure what [missed referred] to.

所以，如果你參考第二季度，我們就在現場，對吧。毛利率為 45.3%，而預期中位數為 45%。我不確定[missed]指的是什麼。

Just in terms of the gross margins, I thought I heard two-thirds driven by volumes in the third driven by mix?

就毛利率而言，我想我聽說三分之二是由銷量驅動的，三分之一是由混合驅動的？

That's been increased from Q1, so Q1 gross margin, if you recall, was in the high 30s, 38.7%. So the increase from Q1 to Q2 from the 38.7% to the 45.3%, about two-thirds of it relates to volume and about a third to mix. And that change in mix is more HBM, more Foundry Logic, due to [that one.]

這比第一季有所增加，所以第一季的毛利率（如果你還記得的話）處於 30 多歲的高位，即 38.7%。因此，從第一季到第二季的成長從 38.7% 到 45.3%，其中大約三分之二與數量有關，大約三分之一與混合有關。這種混合的變化更多的是 HBM，更多的是 Foundry Logic，因為[那個。

And then could you just provide a little more color on the progress with qualifications of men based probe-cards for GPU tests and maybe what the size of the market opportunity could look like?

然後您能否提供更多關於用於 GPU 測試的基於男性的探針卡資格的進展以及市場機會的大小？

Yeah, I think in sizing it is interesting maybe to get everybody on the same page as the largest GPU manufacturer transitions to advanced packaging, you're primarily co-los at the world's largest foundry that requires mems brokers, right? The legacy probe cards, they use for monolithic GPUs, no longer work. And so and we are in a qualification process there.

是的，我認為在規模調整方面，隨著最大的GPU 製造商轉向先進封裝，讓每個人都達成共識可能會很有趣，您主要是世界上最大的代工廠的合作夥伴，需要MEMS 經紀人，對吧？用於單片 GPU 的傳統探針卡不再起作用。因此，我們正在那裡進行資格審查。

'd say our major competitor is has been ahead of us and has got the initial business kind of what we've been more focused on HBM and that opportunity. But it's a strategic imperative us for to qualify there here in 2024 and make some progress.

可以說，我們的主要競爭對手已經領先我們，並且已經獲得了我們一直更關注的 HBM 的初始業務類型和機會。但我們必須在 2024 年取得資格並取得一些進展。

And you think, again, relatively difficult to seize the opportunity. But as you heard from and as you heard from some of the memory manufacturers, there's an interesting asymmetry associated with some of these AI products where the amount of memory in the package is almost 10 times that of the GPUs.

而你又認為，要抓住這個機會相對來說比較困難。但正如您從一些記憶體製造商那裡聽到的那樣，其中一些 AI 產品存在著有趣的不對稱性，其中封裝中的記憶體量幾乎是 GPU 的 10 倍。

And so for unit-driven businesses like ours and HBM becomes a much more compelling opportunity. That's not to diminish the importance of qualifying during this important transition of GPUs to needing mems based technologies for probe. But we like obviously the exposure to HBM.

因此，對於像我們這樣的單位驅動型企業來說，HBM 成為一個更具吸引力的機會。這並不是削弱在 GPU 朝向需要基於 mems 的技術進行探測的重要轉變過程中進行資格認證的重要性。但我們顯然喜歡 HBM 的投資。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

I would now like to turn the conference back to Mike Slessor for closing remarks. Sir.

現在我想請麥克‧斯萊索 (Mike Slessor) 致閉幕詞。先生。

All right. Thanks, everybody, for joining us today. We've got a couple of conferences in late August and in early September. That we hope to see you at, until then take care.

好的。謝謝大家今天加入我們。我們在八月底和九月初舉行了幾次會議。我們希望在那裡見到您，在那之前請多保重。

So this concludes today's conference call and thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束，感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。