FormFactor Inc (FORM) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Thank you, and welcome, everyone, to FormFactor's second quarter 2025 earnings conference call. On today's call are Chief Executive Officer, Mike Slessor; and Chief Financial Officer, Shai Shahar. Before we begin, Stan Finkelstein, the company's VP of Investor Relations, will remind you of some important information.

感謝大家，歡迎參加 FormFactor 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。參加今天電話會議的有執行長 Mike Slessor 和財務長 Shai Shahar。在我們開始之前，公司投資者關係副總裁 Stan Finkelstein 將提醒您一些重要資訊。

Thank you. Today, the company will be discussing GAAP P&L results and some important non-GAAP results intended to supplement your understanding of the company's financials. Reconciliations of GAAP to non-GAAP measures and other financial information are available in the press release issued today by the company and on the Investor Relations section of our website.

謝謝。今天，該公司將討論 GAAP 損益結果和一些重要的非 GAAP 結果，旨在補充您對公司財務狀況的了解。公認會計準則 (GAAP) 與非公認會計準則 (Non-GAAP) 指標的對帳及其他財務資訊可在本公司今天發布的新聞稿中以及我們網站的投資者關係部分找到。

Today's discussion contains forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. Examples of such forward-looking statements include those with respect to the projections of financial and business performance, future macroeconomic and geopolitical conditions; the benefits of acquisitions and investments, including acquisition of manufacturing facility; anticipated industry trends; potential disruptions in our supply chain; the impact of regulatory changes, including tariffs and changes in export controls; the anticipated volatility in demand for products; our ability to develop, produce and sell products; and the assumptions upon which such statements are based.

今天的討論包含聯邦證券法所定義的前瞻性陳述。此類前瞻性陳述的例子包括：對財務和業務表現、未來宏觀經濟和地緣政治條件的預測；收購和投資的收益，包括收購製造工廠；預期的行業趨勢；我們供應鏈中的潛在中斷；監管變化的影響，包括關稅和出口管制的變化；預期的產品需求波動；我們開發、生產和銷售產品的能力；以及此類陳述所基於的假設。

These statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed during this call. Information on risk factors and uncertainties is contained in our most recent filing on Form 10-K with the SEC for the fiscal year ended December 28, 2024, and in our other SEC filings, which are available on the SEC's website at www.sec.gov and in our press release issued today. Forward-looking statements are made as of today, July 30, 2025, and we assume no obligation to update them.

這些聲明受到已知和未知的風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與本次電話會議中表達的結果有重大差異。有關風險因素和不確定性的資訊包含在我們最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的截至 2024 年 12 月 28 日的財政年度的 10-K 表格文件中，以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中，這些文件可在美國證券交易委員會網站 www.sec.gov 和我們今天發布的新聞稿中查閱。前瞻性陳述截至 2025 年 7 月 30 日做出，我們不承擔更新這些陳述的義務。

With that, we will now turn the call over to FormFactor's CEO, Mike Slessor.

現在，我們將把電話轉交給 FormFactor 的執行長 Mike Slessor。

Thanks, everyone, for joining us today. FormFactor reported sequentially stronger second quarter revenue that exceeded the high end of our outlook range due to higher-than-anticipated growth in our probe card business. Despite this revenue strength, non-GAAP gross margin and overall profitability fell short of our outlook, mainly caused by an unfavorable shift in product mix and unforecasted ramp-up costs for a second HBM DRAM customer. In the current third quarter, we expect to deliver revenue comparable to the second quarter and slightly higher gross margin and operating profit.

感謝大家今天加入我們。FormFactor 報告稱，由於探測卡業務的成長高於預期，第二季營收季增，超出了我們預期範圍的高端。儘管收入強勁，但非 GAAP 毛利率和整體獲利能力仍低於我們的預期，主要原因是產品組合發生不利變化，以及第二個 HBM DRAM 客戶的成本增加未預測到。在目前第三季度，我們預計營收將與第二季持平，毛利率和營業利潤將略有上升。

Before we dive into segments and market level details, I'd like to spend a few moments reviewing the year-to-date. FormFactor's business continues to be driven by two dominant themes: advanced packaging and generative AI. As front-end-driven Moore's Law slows, the innovation and performance offered by advanced packaging and chiplets allows our customers to accelerate their road maps and deliver spectacular performance improvements in compute and memory.

在我們深入探討細分市場和市場層面的細節之前，我想花一點時間回顧一下今年迄今為止的情況。FormFactor 的業務繼續由兩個主要主題驅動：先進封裝和產生人工智慧。隨著前端驅動的摩爾定律放緩，先進封裝和小晶片提供的創新和性能使我們的客戶能夠加速他們的路線圖並在計算和內存方面實現顯著的性能改進。

These innovations, like the stacking of DRAM chiplets to produce HBMs that are then integrated with GPUs in multi-reticle CoWoS packages, co-packaged optics and even chiplet-based processors deployed at the edge, are enabling the transformative capabilities of generative AI, fueling forecasts of semiconductor industry growth to $1 trillion early in the next decade.

這些創新，例如堆疊 DRAM 晶片以生產 HBM，然後將其與多掩模版 CoWoS 封裝中的 GPU 集成、共同封裝的光學器件，甚至部署在邊緣的基於晶片的處理器，正在實現生成式 AI 的變革能力，推動對半導體行業增長的預測，即在未來十年初半導體行業的規模將增長至 1 萬億美元。

As the leading supplier of probe cards and systems that ensure the quality and performance of each individual chiplet and the stacks of chiplets in the advanced package, FormFactor is uniquely positioned in enabling these innovations. We continue to be excited by our growth prospects as advanced packaging drives increased test intensity and test complexity, creating increased demand for our products.

作為探針卡和系統的領先供應商，FormFactor 能夠確保先進封裝中每個晶片以及晶片堆疊的品質和性能，在實現這些創新方面具有獨特的優勢。由於先進封裝推動了測試強度和測試複雜性的提高，從而增加了我們產品的需求，我們對我們的成長前景繼續感到興奮。

At the same time, we acknowledge that our recent financial results and especially gross margins have not reflected our unique market leadership position. There are multiple reasons for this gross margin underperformance, including a product mix shift towards historically lower-margin markets like DRAM, operational cost increases and the recent headwinds presented by tariffs. As we said in previous quarters, we're taking steps to address each of these root causes, including developing and commercializing differentiated new products to drive market share and pricing while at the same time improving our operational performance and manufacturing costs under the new global operations organization and leadership we put in place last year.

同時，我們承認我們最近的財務業績，尤其是毛利率並未反映出我們獨特的市場領導地位。造成毛利率表現不佳的原因有很多，包括產品組合轉向 DRAM 等歷史上利潤率較低的市場、營運成本增加以及近期關稅帶來的阻力。正如我們在前幾個季度所說的那樣，我們正在採取措施解決每一個根本原因，包括開發和商業化差異化的新產品以推動市場份額和定價，同時在去年建立的新全球營運組織和領導下改善我們的營運績效和製造成本。

In the first half of 2025, we've also utilized FormFactor's strong balance sheet to make two strategic investments designed to improve longer-term competitiveness and profitability: one, a minority equity investment in FICT, the leading global supplier of multilayer organic substrates, which are a critical enabling probe card subcomponent for us and our competitors; and two, the purpose -- the purchase of a fit-for-purpose brownfield manufacturing facility in Farmers Branch, Texas.

2025 年上半年，我們還利用 FormFactor 強大的資產負債表進行了兩項戰略投資，旨在提高長期競爭力和盈利能力：一是對全球領先的多層有機基板供應商 FICT 進行少數股權投資，這對我們和我們的競爭對手來說都是至關重要的探針卡子組件；二是目的——在德克薩斯州法默斯布蘭奇購買一個法默斯布蘭奇製造工廠。

The Farmers Branch facility acquisition allows us to rapidly and cost effectively expand our process capability and capacity beyond our current manufacturing footprint. It also provides a clear path to lower our ongoing manufacturing costs as it's located in a region with lower operating costs and a variety of financial and regulatory incentives. Our team has made excellent progress in executing our planning and pre-startup activities since the June 2 purchase announcement, and we've recently obtained the certificate of occupancy for the site.

收購 Farmers Branch 工廠使我們能夠快速且經濟高效地擴大我們的加工能力和產能，超越我們目前的製造規模。由於它位於營運成本較低且擁有各種財務和監管激勵措施的地區，因此它也為我們降低持續製造成本提供了明確的途徑。自 6 月 2 日宣布購買以來，我們的團隊在執行規劃和啟動前活動方面取得了出色的進展，並且我們最近獲得了該地塊的入住許可證。

We're currently finalizing schedules for tool installation and specific product ramps with the detailed timing and magnitude of the ramp governed by process tool lead times, CapEx requirements and the specific financial incentives committed by the state and local governments.

我們目前正在敲定工具安裝和特定產品產量提升的時間表，其中產量提升的具體時間和幅度取決於製程工具的交付週期、資本支出要求以及州和地方政府承諾的具體財務激勵措施。

Turning now to segment and market level details. In DRAM probe cards, HBM drove the expected sequential growth in the second quarter. And in the current third quarter, we expect continued growth in both HBM and DRAM overall. FormFactor's top customer remains the market share leader in this market. In addition, we are all -- also now shipping in volume to all three major HBM manufacturers as we execute our strategy to be a key supplier to all the leading customers in the industry, thereby growing and diversifying our HBM demand profile.

現在轉向細分市場和市場層面的細節。在 DRAM 偵測卡中，HBM 推動了第二季預期的連續成長。在目前第三季度，我們預計 HBM 和 DRAM 整體將持續成長。FormFactor 的最大客戶仍然是該市場的市場份額領導者。此外，我們也正在向所有三大 HBM 製造商批量發貨，因為我們執行的策略是成為業內所有主要客戶的關鍵供應商，從而擴大和多樣化我們的 HBM 需求。

Even with this more diversified demand profile, we expect the quarter-to-quarter volatility in HBM demand we've seen over the past several quarters to continue as all three of our customers' output is concentrated in a relatively small number of designs that are ramping up on short lead times. More broadly, we're continuing to strengthen our leadership position in HBM probe cards as bit growth accelerates and are excited about growing this business with FormFactor's differentiated SmartMatrix and IntelliFusion DRAM probe card architectures.

即使需求狀況更加多樣化，我們預計過去幾季中 HBM 需求的季度波動仍將持續，因為我們所有三個客戶的產量都集中在相對較少的設計中，而且交貨週期較短。更廣泛地說，隨著位元成長的加速，我們將繼續加強我們在 HBM 探測卡方面的領導地位，並對利用 FormFactor 差異化的 SmartMatrix 和 IntelliFusion DRAM 探測卡架構來發展這項業務感到興奮。

Shifting to the foundry and logic probe card market. Consistent with our outlook, second quarter demand in this market was sequentially stronger as we delivered seasonal ramps of major mobile application processor designs and a family of client PC microprocessor designs. Given the seasonal nature of this strength, we expect a moderate reduction in third quarter demand in this market.

轉向代工和邏輯探針卡市場。與我們的展望一致，由於我們按季節推出了主要行動應用處理器設計和一系列客戶端 PC 微處理器設計，該市場第二季度的需求環比強勁。鑑於這種強勁勢頭的季節性，我們預計該市場第三季的需求將適度下降。

These segment results provide a proof point of FormFactor's industry leadership and strong customer partnerships as two foundry and logic customers topped the 10% threshold in the second quarter. In addition, we were recognized by our customers worldwide in the annual TechInsights' 2025 global customer satisfaction survey as the number 1 global supplier in both test subsystems and focused chip-making equipment categories, where we received high rankings for quality and technology leadership, far outpacing our direct competitors. I'd like to thank our customers for their partnership and commend our worldwide team for their commitment to our core FORM value of focus on the customer as we strive to continuously improve our customer collaboration and support.

這些部門表現證明了 FormFactor 的行業領導和強大的客戶合作夥伴關係，因為兩家代工和邏輯客戶在第二季度突破了 10% 的門檻。此外，在 TechInsights 的 2025 年年度全球客戶滿意度調查中，我們被全球客戶評為測試子系統和重點晶片製造設備類別的全球第一大供應商，並在品質和技術領先地位方面獲得了很高的排名，遠遠超過了我們的直接競爭對手。我要感謝客戶的合作，並讚揚我們的全球團隊對我們核心 FORM 價值的承諾，即專注於客戶，我們努力不斷改善與客戶的協作和支援。

Turning to our Systems segment. We experienced a slight sequential reduction in second quarter revenue due to a variety of pushouts. These systems have now been shipped, and we expect this to result in sequential growth and an improved overall product mix in the third quarter. Our systems business continues to be driven by customer development and adoption of advanced technologies like co-packaged optics or CPO as well as the significant advancements being made in quantum computing.

轉向我們的系統部分。由於各種推遲因素，我們第二季度的收入環比略有下降。這些系統目前已經出貨，我們預計這將帶來第三季的連續成長和整體產品組合的改善。我們的系統業務繼續受到客戶開發和採用先進技術（如共封裝光學或 CPO）以及量子計算領域取得的重大進步的推動。

In CPO, we now have multiple CM300xi systems running pilot production for our primary customer and are working closely with them, their foundry and partners like Advantest to ready this technology for high-volume production in the first half of 2026.

在 CPO 方面，我們現在有多個 CM300xi 系統為我們的主要客戶進行試生產，並且正在與他們、他們的代工廠以及 Advantest 等合作夥伴密切合作，為該技術在 2026 年上半年的大批量生產做好準備。

In quantum computing, the first half of 2025 has seen significant advancements in the commercialization of this revolutionary computational technology with an acceleration of technical achievements like Google's progress in error correction with their Willow platform and statements from industry icons like Nvidia's Jensen Huang that quantum computing is reaching an inflection point.

在量子計算領域，2025 年上半年，這項革命性計算技術的商業化取得了重大進展，技術成就加速發展，例如穀歌利用其 Willow 平台在糾錯方面取得的進展，以及 Nvidia 的黃仁勳等行業領袖的聲明，即量子計算正在達到一個轉折點。

FormFactor's IQ2000 and IQ3000 cryogenic probers are an important part of this advancement with the system helping customers characterize, test and improve their quantum processors and the associated logic and communication circuits. Although high-volume production remains a few years out, testing of quantum computing chips is yet another area where FormFactor is ideally positioned.

FormFactor 的 IQ2000 和 IQ3000 低溫探測器是這項進步的重要組成部分，該系統可協助客戶表徵、測試和改進其量子處理器以及相關的邏輯和通訊電路。儘管大規模生產仍需幾年時間，但量子運算晶片的測試是 FormFactor 佔據理想地位的另一個領域。

In closing, we remain committed to our target financial model, which delivers 47% gross margin on $850 million of annual revenue. At the same time, we acknowledge that our recent performance has not demonstrated a clear path to that level of profitability, which is why we're taking the steps I mentioned earlier to improve margins over the medium term, both organically and through strategic investments like FICT and Farmers Branch.

最後，我們仍然致力於我們的目標財務模式，即在 8.5 億美元的年收入上實現 47% 的毛利率。同時，我們承認，我們最近的業績並沒有顯示出實現這一盈利水平的明確途徑，這就是為什麼我們要採取我之前提到的措施，通過有機增長和 FICT 和 Farmers Branch 等戰略投資來提高中期利潤率。

These multipronged initiatives will improve our competitiveness and add capacity at lower cost, enabling us to grow FormFactor as we meet the challenges of increased test intensity and higher test complexity associated with the adoption of advanced packaging in applications like high-bandwidth memory, co-packaged optics and quantum computing.

這些多管齊下的措施將提高我們的競爭力，以更低的成本增加產能，使我們能夠發展 FormFactor，以應對在高頻寬記憶體、共封裝光學元件和量子運算等應用中採用先進封裝所帶來的測試強度增加和測試複雜性提高的挑戰。

Shai, over to you.

Shai，交給你了。

Thank you, Mike, and good afternoon. As you saw in our press release, Q2 revenues were $195.8 million, $0.8 million above the high end of our outlook range, and non-GAAP gross margin of 38.5% was at the low end of the range. These, together with OpEx slightly higher than the midpoint of the outlook, resulted in a non-GAAP EPS of $0.27, $0.1 above the low end of the outlook range.

謝謝你，麥克，下午好。正如您在我們的新聞稿中看到的，第二季的收入為 1.958 億美元，比我們預期範圍的高端高出 80 萬美元，非 GAAP 毛利率為 38.5%，處於該範圍的低端。這些因素加上略高於預期中點的營運支出，導致非 GAAP 每股收益為 0.27 美元，比預期範圍的低端高出 0.1 美元。

Second quarter revenues increased 14.3% from the first quarter and decreased 0.8% year-over-year from our Q2 '24 revenues. Probe Cards segment revenues were $162.1 million in the second quarter, an increase of $25.6 million or 18.7% from the first quarter. The increase was driven by higher revenues in all the markets we serve, most notably in foundry and logic and DRAM. Within the Probe Cards segment, Q2 foundry and logic revenues were $100 million, a $14 million or 16.7% increase from the first quarter.

第二季營收較第一季成長 14.3%，較 2024 年第二季營收年減 0.8%。探針卡部門第二季營收為 1.621 億美元，較第一季增加 2,560 萬美元，增幅為 18.7%。這一增長得益於我們所服務的所有市場的收入增加，尤其是代工和邏輯以及 DRAM 市場的收入增加。在探針卡領域，第二季代工和邏輯收入為 1 億美元，比第一季增加 1,400 萬美元或 16.7%。

Foundry and logic revenues increased to 50.8% of total company revenues compared to 49.8% in the first quarter. DRAM revenues were $57.1 million in Q2, $8.2 million or 16.8% higher than the first quarter, an increase to 29.1% of total quarterly revenues as compared to 28.5% in the first quarter. Within DRAM, HBM revenues increased $7.4 million from $29.5 million in Q1 to $37 million in the second quarter. Flash revenues of $5.5 million in Q2 were up $3.1 million from the first quarter and were 2.8% of total revenues in Q2 as compared to 1.4% in Q1.

晶圓代工和邏輯電路收入占公司總收入的比例從第一季的 49.8% 成長至 50.8%。第二季 DRAM 營收為 5,710 萬美元，比第一季增加 820 萬美元或 16.8%，佔季總營收的 29.1%，而第一季為 28.5%。在 DRAM 領域，HBM 收入從第一季的 2,950 萬美元增加了 740 萬美元，達到第二季的 3,700 萬美元。第二季 Flash 營收為 550 萬美元，較第一季增加 310 萬美元，佔第二季總營收的 2.8%，而第一季為 1.4%。

Systems segment revenues were $33.7 million in Q2, a $1.1 million decrease from the first quarter and comprised 17.2% of total company revenues, down from 20.3% in the first quarter. GAAP gross margin for the second quarter was 37.3% as compared to 37.7% in Q1. Cost of revenues included $2.4 million of GAAP to non-GAAP reconciling items, which we outlined in our press release issued today and in the reconciliation table available in the Investor Relations section of our website.

系統部門第二季營收為 3,370 萬美元，較第一季減少 110 萬美元，占公司總營收的 17.2%，低於第一季的 20.3%。第二季 GAAP 毛利率為 37.3%，第一季為 37.7%。收入成本包括 240 萬美元的 GAAP 與非 GAAP 調節項目，我們在今天發布的新聞稿中以及我們網站投資者關係部分提供的調整表中對此進行了概述。

On a non-GAAP basis, gross margin for the second quarter was 38.5%, 0.7 percentage points lower than the 39.2% non-GAAP gross margin in Q1 and at the low end of our outlook range. The decrease as compared to Q1 is driven mainly by lower non-GAAP gross margins in the Systems segment. The decreases compared to the midpoint of our outlook range is attributable mostly to a decrease in systems revenues, which have higher margins, as well as higher manufacturing spend and higher ramp-up costs related to shipments to an HBM DRAM customer.

以非美國通用會計準則計算，第二季毛利率為 38.5%，比第一季 39.2% 的非美國通用會計準則毛利率低 0.7 個百分點，處於我們預期範圍的低端。與第一季相比的下降主要是由於系統部門的非 GAAP 毛利率較低。與我們預期範圍的中點相比，收入下降主要是由於系統收入下降（利潤率較高），以及製造支出增加和與向 HBM DRAM 客戶發貨相關的生產成本增加。

We incurred these additional ramp-up costs to meet some unique performance requirements for an HBM4 design specific to this customer. Our engineering team has partnered closely with this customer's technical team to identify and validate resolution of the issue, and we expect to have fully incorporated the necessary modifications to the specific design during the current third quarter.

我們承擔了這些額外的提升成本，以滿足該客戶特定的 HBM4 設計的一些獨特性能要求。我們的工程團隊與該客戶的技術團隊密切合作，以確定並驗證問題的解決方案，我們預計將在當前第三季將必要的修改完全納入具體設計中。

Our Probe Cards segment gross margin was 38.3% in the second quarter, an increase of 0.5 percentage points compared to 37.8% in Q1. The increase from Q1 was driven by several factors, including favorable absorption and higher revenues that were partially offset by higher manufacturing spend, which include higher costs from tariffs and the ramp-up cost I just mentioned. Our Q2 Systems segment gross margin was 39.4%, a decrease of 5.1 percentage points compared to 44.5% gross margin in the first quarter. The decrease from Q1 was mainly a result of lower revenues and unfavorable product mix and higher manufacturing spending, which includes costs from tariffs.

我們探針卡部門第二季的毛利率為 38.3%，比第一季的 37.8% 增加了 0.5 個百分點。第一季的成長是由幾個因素推動的，包括有利的吸收和更高的收入，但部分被更高的製造支出所抵消，其中包括更高的關稅成本和我剛才提到的提升成本。我們第二季系統部門的毛利率為 39.4%，與第一季的 44.5% 毛利率相比下降了 5.1 個百分點。與第一季相比，收入下降主要是由於收入下降、產品結構不利以及製造支出增加（其中包括關稅成本）。

Our GAAP operating expenses were $60.6 million for the second quarter as compared to $61.3 million in the first quarter. Non-GAAP operating expenses for the second quarter were $52.5 million or 26.8% of revenues as compared with $50.2 million or 29.3% of revenues in Q1. The $2.3 million increase relates mainly to higher performance-based compensation, increased labor costs from higher headcount and annual salary adjustments and increased operating expenses from the new Farmers Branch manufacturing facility we purchased late in the second quarter.

我們第二季的 GAAP 營運費用為 6,060 萬美元，而第一季為 6,130 萬美元。第二季非公認會計準則營運費用為 5,250 萬美元，佔營收的 26.8%，而第一季為 5,020 萬美元，佔營收的 29.3%。230 萬美元的成長主要與績效薪酬的提高、員工人數增加和年度薪酬調整導致的勞動力成本增加以及我們在第二季度末購買的新 Farmers Branch 製造工廠導致的營運費用增加有關。

Non-GAAP expenses for the second quarter included amortization of acquisition-related intangibles and depreciation of $9.6 million, $0.7 million higher than the first quarter, and $9.4 million for stock-based compensation, $0.4 million lower than the first quarter. GAAP operating income was $12.3 million for Q2 as compared to the GAAP operating income of $3.3 million in Q1. Non-GAAP operating income for the second quarter was $22.8 million compared with $16.9 million in the first quarter, an increase of $6 million or 35.2%. This increase in operating income is due to higher revenues partially offset by lower gross margins and an increase in operating expenses.

第二季非公認會計準則費用包括收購相關無形資產攤提和折舊 960 萬美元，比第一季高 70 萬美元，以及股票薪資 940 萬美元，比第一季低 40 萬美元。第二季 GAAP 營業收入為 1,230 萬美元，而第一季 GAAP 營業收入為 330 萬美元。第二季非公認會計準則營業收入為 2,280 萬美元，而第一季為 1,690 萬美元，增加 600 萬美元，增幅為 35.2%。營業收入的成長是由於收入增加，但被毛利率下降和營業費用增加部分抵銷。

GAAP net income for the second quarter was $9.1 million or $0.12 per fully diluted share compared with a GAAP net income of $6.4 million or $0.08 per fully diluted share in the previous quarter. The non-GAAP effective tax rate for the second quarter was 16.5%, 1.8 percentage points higher than the 14.7% rate for the first quarter.

第二季 GAAP 淨收入為 910 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.12 美元，而上一季 GAAP 淨收入為 640 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.08 美元。第二季非公認會計準則有效稅率為16.5%，較第一季的14.7%高出1.8個百分點。

The recent passage of the One Big Beautiful Bill or OBBB provided a permanent repeal of capitalization of R&D expenditures while also lowering foreign-derived intangible income, or FDII, tax benefits. As a result, we now expect an increase in our effective tax rate for the full year to the range of 19% to 23% from the previously communicated range of 14% to 18%.

最近通過的「一項偉大的美麗法案」（OBBB）永久廢除了研發支出的資本化，同時降低了外國衍生無形收入（FDII）的稅收優惠。因此，我們目前預計全年有效稅率將從先前公佈的 14% 至 18% 增加到 19% 至 23% 之間。

While increasing our effective tax rate and income tax expenses by approximately $2.6 million for the first three quarters of 2025, this bill reduces our cash taxes for the year by approximately $5 million. I will say more about the impact of this new legislation on our Q3 effective tax rate and EPS later in the Q3 outlook section of my remarks. Second quarter non-GAAP net income was $21.2 million or $0.27 per fully diluted share, up from $18 million or $0.23 per fully diluted share in Q1.

該法案雖然將我們 2025 年前三個季度的有效稅率和所得稅支出提高了約 260 萬美元，但同時也將我們當年的現金稅減少了約 500 萬美元。我將在稍後的第三季展望部分詳細介紹這項新立法對我們第三季有效稅率和每股盈餘的影響。第二季非 GAAP 淨收入為 2,120 萬美元或每股攤薄收益 0.27 美元，高於第一季的 1,800 萬美元或每股攤薄收益 0.23 美元。

Moving to the balance sheet and cash flows. We had a negative free cash flow of $47.1 million in the second quarter compared to a positive $6.3 million in Q1. The main reason for the decrease in free cash flows were CapEx, $47.7 million higher than in Q1 due to the $55 million purchase of the Farmers Branch manufacturing facility, and operating cash flows that were $4.6 million lower than in Q1, primarily driven by greater outflows for working capital of $9.3 million. If we exclude the $55 million investment in the Farmers Branch manufacturing facility, free cash flow would have been $8 million or $1.6 million higher than in Q1.

轉到資產負債表和現金流量。我們第二季的自由現金流為負 4,710 萬美元，而第一季的自由現金流為正 630 萬美元。自由現金流減少的主要原因是資本支出，由於花費 5,500 萬美元收購了 Farmers Branch 製造工廠，導致資本支出比第一季度高出 4,770 萬美元，而營運現金流比第一季低 460 萬美元，主要原因是營運資金流出增加 930 萬美元。如果我們排除對 Farmers Branch 製造工廠的 5,500 萬美元投資，自由現金流將為 800 萬美元，比第一季高出 160 萬美元。

We invested $66.3 million in capital expenditures during the second quarter compared to $18.6 million in Q1. As mentioned, the increase was due chiefly to the purchase of the Farmers Branch manufacturing facility. As Mike mentioned, since we purchased the facility last month, we have made excellent progress in executing our planning and pre-startup activities. We are currently finalizing our plans, and we will provide updates as we continue to make progress. With this purchase and additional related investments we expect to make in the facility, we increased our expected annual CapEx for 2025 from the range of $35 million to $45 million to $110 million to $130 million.

我們在第二季的資本支出為 6,630 萬美元，而第一季為 1,860 萬美元。如上所述，成長主要歸因於購買了 Farmers Branch 製造工廠。正如麥克所提到的，自從我們上個月購買該設施以來，我們在執行規劃和啟動前活動方面取得了出色的進展。我們目前正在敲定計劃，並將隨著進展提供最新消息。透過此次收購以及我們預計在工廠進行的其他相關投資，我們將 2025 年的預期年度資本支出從 3,500 萬美元至 4,500 萬美元提高到 1.1 億美元至 1.3 億美元。

At quarter end, total cash and investments were $253 million, a decrease of $50 million from Q1. The main reason for the decrease was the purchase of the Farmers Branch facility. At the end of the second quarter, we had one term loan with a balance totaling $13 million. I also would like to report that yesterday, we entered into a new $150 million revolving credit facility agreement. This facility, together with more than $250 million on our balance sheet, enhances our financial flexibility and provides us with additional liquidity to support our strategic initiatives, working capital needs and general corporate purposes.

截至季末，現金和投資總額為 2.53 億美元，較第一季減少 5,000 萬美元。下降的主要原因是購買了 Farmers Branch 工廠。截至第二季末，我們有一筆定期貸款，餘額總計 1,300 萬美元。我還想報告，昨天我們簽署了一項新的 1.5 億美元循環信貸協議。這筆貸款加上我們資產負債表上的2.5億多美元，增強了我們的財務靈活性，並為我們提供了額外的流動性，以支持我們的策略計畫、營運資金需求和一般公司用途。

During the second quarter, we used $2.4 million to repurchase shares. At quarter end, $72.6 million remained available for future purchases under the $75 million two-year buyback program that was approved and announced in April 2025. Our capital allocation strategy has not changed, and our share repurchase program goal is to offset dilution from stock-based compensation.

第二季度，我們使用了 240 萬美元回購股票。截至本季末，根據 2025 年 4 月批准並宣布的 7,500 萬美元兩年期回購計劃，仍有 7,260 萬美元可供未來購買。我們的資本配置策略沒有改變，我們的股票回購計畫目標是抵銷股票薪資的稀釋。

Turning to the third quarter non-GAAP outlook. We expect Q3 revenues of $200 million plus or minus $5 million with increases in systems and DRAM, including in HBM, and a decrease in foundry and logic. This increase in revenues and a more favorable product mix are expected to result in a higher non-GAAP gross margin of 40%, plus or minus 150 basis points.

轉向第三季非公認會計準則展望。我們預計第三季的收入為 2 億美元，上下浮動 500 萬美元，系統和 DRAM（包括 HBM）的收入將增加，而代工和邏輯的收入將減少。預計收入的成長和更有利的產品組合將使非 GAAP 毛利率提高 40%，上下浮動 150 個基點。

This Q3 outlook range includes a 1 percentage points to 1.5 percentage point reduction in gross margins due to the impact of tariffs, assuming tariffs remain at their current level. If the tariffs and goods imported to the US do increase, a possibility that was indicated by the administration, the impact of the tariffs on our gross margins could increase to 1.5 percentage points to 2 percentage points, at the midpoint of our outlook range.

假設關稅維持在目前水平，第三季的預期範圍包括由於關稅的影響，毛利率將下降 1 個百分點至 1.5 個百分點。如果美國政府指出關稅和進口商品確實增加，那麼關稅對我們毛利率的影響可能會增加 1.5 個百分點至 2 個百分點，這是我們預期範圍的中間值。

As Mike mentioned, we remain committed to our target financial model, which delivers 47% gross margin on $850 million of annual revenue. At the same time, we acknowledge that our recent results and our Q3 outlook are not showing a clear path to achieving the model in the near term. And so we are taking steps to improve margins and make progress towards achieving our target financial model. At the midpoint of these outlook ranges, we expect Q3 operating expenses to be $55 million, plus or minus $2 million, approximately $2.5 million higher than Q2, mainly due to additional headcount and a full quarter of expenses related to operating our new manufacturing facility in Farmers Branch.

正如麥克所提到的，我們仍然致力於我們的目標財務模式，即在 8.5 億美元的年收入上實現 47% 的毛利率。同時，我們承認，我們最近的業績和第三季的展望並沒有顯示出短期內實現該模式的明確途徑。因此，我們正在採取措施提高利潤率並朝著實現目標財務模型的方向前進。在這些展望範圍的中間值，我們預計第三季度營運費用為 5500 萬美元，上下浮動 200 萬美元，比第二季度高出約 250 萬美元，這主要是由於員工人數增加以及與運營我們在農場主分支的新製造工廠相關的整個季度的費用。

Regarding income taxes. As I mentioned earlier, the passage of OBBB, effective retroactively from January 1, 2025, results in an increase in our annual effective tax rate. Our Q3 income tax provision will include a onetime catch-up for income taxes for the first and second quarters, which will result in an effective tax rate of approximately 31% in Q3.

關於所得稅。正如我之前提到的，OBBB 的通過自 2025 年 1 月 1 日起追溯生效，導致我們的年度有效稅率增加。我們的第三季所得稅準備金將包括第一季和第二季的一次性所得稅補繳，這將導致第三季的有效稅率約為 31%。

If we exclude the impact of the new tax legislation on the third quarter effective tax rate, it would have been in the previously communicated range. Q4 effective tax rate, which will not have the onetime catch-up effect of the new tax legislation, is expected to be within the new annual range of 19% to 23%.

如果我們排除新稅法對第三季有效稅率的影響，它將處於先前公佈的範圍內。第四季有效稅率預計將在19%至23%的新年度範圍內，不會產生新稅法帶來的一次性追趕效應。

Non-GAAP earnings per fully diluted share for Q3 is expected to be $0.25, plus or minus $0.04. If we exclude the impact of the new tax legislation, the midpoint of the EPS Q3 outlook range would have been $0.32. A reconciliation of our GAAP to non-GAAP Q3 outlook is available on the Investor Relations section of our website and in our press release issued today.

第三季非公認會計準則 (Non-GAAP) 每股完全稀釋收益預計為 0.25 美元，上下浮動 0.04 美元。若剔除新稅法的影響，第三季每股收益預期區間的中位數為 0.32 美元。您可在我們網站的「投資者關係」版塊以及我們今天發布的新聞稿中查看 GAAP 與非 GAAP 第三季預期的比較表。

With that, let's open the call for questions. Operator?

現在，讓我們開始提問。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Brian Chin from Stifel.

（操作員指示）Stifel 的 Brian Chin。

Hi there, good afternoon. Thanks for letting us ask a few questions. Maybe firstly, just -- sorry if I missed this, but how much residual customer or HBM4 product cost is still embedded in the third quarter gross margin guide?

大家好，下午好。感謝您讓我們提出幾個問題。也許首先，只是——如果我錯過了這一點，很抱歉，但是第三季毛利率指南中還包含多少剩餘客戶或 HBM4 產品成本？

I'm not sure I understand the question. The -- you're talking about the ramp-up cost when we.

我不確定我是否理解了這個問題。您正在談論的是我們的提升成本。

Yes. Ramp-up cost, yes. Anything that hasn't already been reflected in second quarter.

是的。是的，增加成本。任何尚未在第二季度反映出來的事情。

Got it. Yes. There is no additional ramp-up cost assumed in Q3 for this HBM customer or others.

知道了。是的。對於該 HBM 客戶或其他客戶，第三季不會產生額外的增加成本。

Okay. Got it. So you're comfortable that, that's behind relative to the product ramps for that customer.

好的。知道了。因此，您可以放心，這相對於該客戶的產品坡道來說是落後的。

Correct. As we said in the prepared remarks, we resolved the issue with the customer in the third quarter.

正確的。正如我們在準備好的評論中所說，我們在第三季與客戶解決了這個問題。

Got it. Got it. Maybe just on the broader business trends relative to how you talked about third quarter across your markets. Surprise to nobody, but consumer PC phone markets continue to feel somewhat underwhelming. I know you don't want to guide 4Q per se, Mike. But as of today, do you think that trend of higher sequential DRAM systems and lower sequential logic/foundry could persist in the 4Q as well? And any thoughts about how that kind of trend impacts gross margins?

知道了。知道了。也許只是與您談論的第三季度各個市場相關的更廣泛的商業趨勢。這並不令人意外，但消費性 PC 手機市場仍表現平平。我知道你並不想指導 4Q 本身，麥克。但截至今天，您是否認為更高順序 DRAM 系統和更低順序邏輯/代工的趨勢也會在第四季度持續下去？您認為這種趨勢對毛利率有何影響？

Yes. So if we look at -- and we're not going to guide Q4. But if we look at the current trends, clearly, our business and the industry overall is being driven by two fundamental trends: one, advanced packaging; the second, generative AI. And clearly, there are a couple. I think in growing the foundry and logic business, we're also taking the approach of not just waiting for recovery in mobile and PC but doing qualifications for things like GPUs, the hyperscalers and custom ASIC.

是的。因此，如果我們看一下——我們不會指導第四季度。但如果我們看一下當前的趨勢，顯然我們的業務和整個行業正受到兩個基本趨勢的驅動：一是先進封裝；二是生成性人工智慧。顯然，存在兩個。我認為，在發展代工和邏輯業務時，我們採取的方法不僅是等待行動和 PC 的復甦，還要對 GPU、超大規模和客製化 ASIC 等進行認證。

And in fact, there are some contributions of hyperscaler custom ASIC in our second quarter results, where we've delivered significant volumes of one of those custom ASIC chips. And so I think I agree with you. The PC and mobile markets remain tepid. I don't think pinning foundry and -- strong foundry and logic secular growth on those is a particularly wise move. We did see some second quarter seasonal strength, but shifting our focus to grow the foundry and logic business in areas driven by generative AI is where we're putting more and more resources. I think we'll continue to see DRAM grow driven by HBM strength.

事實上，超大規模客製化 ASIC 在我們的第二季業績中做出了一些貢獻，我們已經交付了大量其中一種客製化 ASIC 晶片。所以我想我同意你的觀點。個人電腦和行動市場依然不溫不火。我認為將代工和強大的代工以及邏輯長期增長寄託在這些上並不是一個特別明智的舉動。我們確實看到了第二季度的一些季節性優勢，但我們正在將重點轉移到在產生人工智慧驅動的領域發展代工和邏輯業務，並投入越來越多的資源。我認為我們將繼續看到 DRAM 在 HBM 強度的推動下成長。

And systems really levered, as I said in my prepared remarks, to co-packaged optics and, to some extent, quantum computing as that continues to develop. All told, that is -- continues to be a challenging product mix for gross margins, which is why we're taking the steps we outlined in the prepared remarks to improve gross margins and get back on track to our target model 47% level.

正如我在準備好的演講中所說，隨著共封裝光學系統的不斷發展，系統確實在某種程度上利用了量子計算。總而言之，對於毛利率而言，產品組合仍然充滿挑戰，這就是為什麼我們要採取在準備好的評論中概述的步驟來提高毛利率並回到我們的目標模型 47% 的水平。

Got it. And then maybe last question. As you begin to ramp up with your largest customer HBM4 and then presumably with second and third customers HBM4 as well, do you see a better -- that's wafer test intensity, but also maybe a margin potential out of those products. And how significant is that sort of Q2 into Q3? And where do you think that goes in the next couple of quarters as a percent of the HBM business?

知道了。這也許是最後一個問題。當您開始為最大客戶 HBM4 加緊生產，然後大概也為第二和第三個客戶 HBM4 加緊生產時，您是否看到了更好的結果 - 即晶圓測試強度，也可能是這些產品的利潤潛力。那麼第二季對第三季的影響有多大？您認為未來幾季 HBM 業務的佔比會達到多少？

Yes. it's still a pretty balanced demand profile between HBM3 and 4, but definitely increasing trend on HBM4. And as we said, I think, in the last call, we expect that crossover to happen sometime in the latter part of 2025. HBM4 does have, at least for certain test insertions, more challenging test requirements, what we refer to generally as increased test complexity with things like higher speeds, different temperature and scaling ranges.

是的。 HBM3 和 4 之間的需求狀況仍然相當平衡，但 HBM4 的需求趨勢肯定呈現成長趨勢。正如我們在上次電話會議中所說的那樣，我認為我們預計這種交叉將在 2025 年下半年的某個時候發生。HBM4 確實具有（至少對於某些測試插入而言）更具挑戰性的測試要求，我們通常稱之為測試複雜性的增加，例如更高的速度、不同的溫度和縮放範圍。

So HBM4 does offer the opportunity, at least for some of these high-speed insertions, for us to deliver more value. And when we do deliver more value, higher yields, higher performance envelope, we do get compensated for that by our customers. So HBM4, at least part of the test insertions, we do expect to have higher ASPs for the high-speed cards.

因此，HBM4 確實提供了機會，至少對於其中一些高速插入而言，可以讓我們實現更多價值。當我們確實提供更多價值、更高產量、更高效能時，我們確實會從客戶那裡得到補償。因此，HBM4，至少是測試插入的一部分，我們確實希望高速卡有更高的 ASP。

Great, thanks, Mike.

太好了，謝謝，麥克。

(Operator Instructions) Craig Ellis from B. Riley Securities.

（操作員指示）B. Riley Securities 的 Craig Ellis。

Yeah, thanks for taking the question. The first question I wanted to ask is just a follow-up on gross margins to clarify that I've got all the pieces correct. So Shai, for the third quarter 40% guide, there isn't any customer HBM start-up costs in there. But did you say there were any headwinds from tariffs? And given the level that we're at, is there anything happening with competitor pricing at these levels or any other one-offs that might be adversely affecting gross margin?

是的，感謝您提出這個問題。我想問的第一個問題只是關於毛利率的後續問題，以澄清我是否理解正確。因此，Shai，對於第三季 40% 的指南，其中沒有任何客戶 HBM 啟動成本。但您是否說過關稅會帶來任何阻力？考慮到我們現在的水平，競爭對手的定價是否會改變，或其他可能對毛利率產生不利影響的一次性事件？

So I'll say again, yes, we don't expect additional ramp-up cost in Q3. So the 40% gross margin assumes no repetitive expenses like we had in Q2. When it comes to tariffs, what we said is that the 40% assumes 1 to 1.5 percentage points headwinds from tariffs as they stand today. There are some things that might increase tariffs on August 1, and there are other rules that might be imposed by the government. And that's what we say that if these things will actually happen, the headwinds might increase to up to 2 percentage points.

所以我再說一遍，是的，我們預計第三季不會有額外的增加成本。因此，40% 的毛利率假設沒有像第二季那樣的重複性費用。談到關稅，我們說的是，40% 的假設是關稅將帶來 1 到 1.5 個百分點的阻力。有些商品的關稅可能會在 8 月 1 日提高，政府也可能會實施其他規定。這就是我們所說的，如果這些事情真的發生，阻力可能會增加到 2 個百分點。

When it comes to competitors' pricing, we don't see significant changes in that. And it goes back to Mike's answer on the previous questions. It all depends on the value we deliver to our customers.

就競爭對手的定價而言，我們並沒有看到顯著的變化。這又回到了 Mike 對前面問題的回答。這一切都取決於我們為客戶提供的價值。

Got it. And then the second question is for Mike. Mike, I was hoping that you could just step up to a higher level and talk about the business and how it performs toward target model parameters given that, that was an emphasis in your commentary.

知道了。第二個問題是問麥克的。麥克，我希望你能更進一步，談談業務以及它如何實現目標模型參數，因為這是你評論中的重點。

And specifically, the question is that we're only about 7% or 8% from target parameter revenue levels on a run rate basis, but we're 700 basis points away on gross margin. So if you were to bin out the three or four things that can help us bridge that gross margin gap, how would those prioritize? And what would be the relative contribution?

具體來說，問題在於，以運行率計算，我們距離目標參數收入水準僅約 7% 或 8%，但毛利率卻相差 700 個基點。因此，如果您要列出三到四件可以幫助我們彌補毛利率差距的事情，那麼它們的優先順序會如何？那麼相對貢獻是多少呢？

Yes, Craig. So I think an absolutely fair observation and one that we tried to point people to in the prepared remarks. We recognize that we're just shy of the revenue levels, at least on a quarterly run rate basis of the model, yet a long way away from the gross margin levels. There is an element of volume that is helpful for gross margin. There's also a variety of different operating cost reductions that we are continuing to execute on.

是的，克雷格。因此，我認為這是一個非常公平的觀察，我們在準備好的發言中也試圖向人們指出這一點。我們認識到，至少以該模型的季度運行率來看，我們還未達到收入水平，但距離毛利率水平還很遠。數量因素對毛利率有幫助。我們也將繼續實施各種不同的營運成本削減措施。

I'll remind people that around a year ago, we completely changed the operating organizational structure and have brought in some very talented people from the outside with strong semiconductor experience. We're now gaining momentum and improving our operations and lowering our operating costs. And so there's some short-term elements there as well.

我想提醒大家，大約一年前，我們徹底改變了營運組織結構，並從外部引進了一些具有豐富半導體經驗的優秀人才。我們目前正在獲得發展動力並改善營運並降低營運成本。因此其中也存在一些短期因素。

And then finally, the initiatives around growing our foundry and logic market share with things like GPU qualifications, with things like addressing the hyperscaler custom AI business as we continue to see a pretty lackluster PC and mobile environment. Those are roughly all three equal components as we think about bridging our way back up to the 47% of the target model at $850 million in revenue.

最後，我們採取一系列舉措來擴大我們的代工和邏輯市場份額，例如透過 GPU 認證，以及解決超大規模客製化 AI 業務，因為我們仍然看到 PC 和行動環境相當低迷。當我們考慮以 8.5 億美元的收入重新達到目標模型的 47% 時，這大致是三個相等的組成部分。

That's really helpful. Thanks guys.

這真的很有幫助。謝謝大家。

Tom Diffely from D.A. Davidson.

D.A. Davidson 的 Tom Diffely。

Yes, good afternoon. Thanks for the questions. Maybe for Shai, when you look at the ramping of the new facility in Texas, what do you think the impact will be, if any, on the P&L over the next few quarters? And then once up and running, what is the -- what do you think the long-term impact or benefit to margins will be?

是的，下午好。感謝您的提問。也許對於 Shai 來說，當您看到德克薩斯州新工廠的擴張時，您認為它對未來幾季的損益表會產生什麼影響（如果有的話）？那麼，一旦啟動並運行，您認為對利潤率的長期影響或好處是什麼？

Yes. So we acquired this facility about a little over a month ago, right? We're still working on our plans, and it's been only a few weeks since we closed it. We will provide updates as we make progress, as I said in the prepared remarks. One of the reasons, I think it's a good reminder, that we acquired this manufacturing facility is that it is located in a lower-cost region.

是的。所以我們大約一個多月前就收購了這個設施，對嗎？我們仍在製定計劃，距離結束才過去幾週。正如我在準備好的演講中所說，我們將在取得進展時提供最新消息。我認為這是一個很好的提醒，我們收購這家製造工廠的原因之一是它位於成本較低的地區。

So we are committed to the target model. The Farmers Branch facility is part of our medium-term process as we expect lower cost of operations in that region, including environmental-related cost, labor cost. And also, as I said in the prepared remarks as well, we are seeking state and local incentives, which would lower our cost as well.

所以我們致力於目標模型。農民分支工廠是我們中期進程的一部分，因為我們預計該地區的營運成本會降低，包括環境相關成本和勞動力成本。而且，正如我在準備好的演講中所說，我們正在尋求國家和地方的激勵措施，這也會降低我們的成本。

But we won't see an impact on the P&L until after it's up and running?

但在它啟動並運行之前，我們不會看到它對損益表的影響？

We will provide an update on that as we make more progress.

隨著我們取得更多進展，我們將提供最新消息。

Okay. And then getting back to the start-up costs, would you expect to see start-up costs at some point down the road for your third high-bandwidth memory customer?

好的。然後回到啟動成本，您是否預計在未來某個時候會看到第三個高頻寬記憶體客戶的啟動成本？

Tom, it's Mike. I'll answer that one. I think the headline for the second quarter results and what we're trying to convey is we're now shipping in volume to all three major HBM providers. They've all been customers for many years, primarily on commodity DRAM, but we're now qualified and shipping in volume. The issue with one customer in the second quarter was really associated with a single design.

湯姆，我是麥克。我來回答這個問題。我認為第二季業績的標題以及我們試圖傳達的訊息是，我們現在正在向所有三大 HBM 供應商批量發貨。他們都是我們的客戶多年，主要經營商品 DRAM，但現在我們已經具備資格並開始大量出貨。第二季度一位客戶的問題其實與單一設計有關。

And as you know, probe cards are consumable specific to each chip design. In customizing our architecture to meet that specific design at this customer, our engineering team made a choice that we had to go back and change. We couldn't reach one of the critical specifications for that customer. And that's sort of the fundamental root cause and reason for this charge in the quarter that we're calling a start-up cost.

如您所知，探針卡是特定於每種晶片設計的消耗品。在客製化我們的架構以滿足該客戶的特定設計時，我們的工程團隊做出了必須回頭進行更改的選擇。我們無法滿足該客戶的一項關鍵規格要求。這就是我們稱之為啟動成本的本季費用的根本原因和理由。

We don't see anything like that at that customer with other designs or with any other customer. The issue has been resolved. Unfortunately, it did have a gross margin impact. But as we continue to build share at those other two HBM manufacturers, we don't see anything more like this. It's part of ramping up and learning some of the subtleties of delivering into a specific application with each customer. But now that we're at volume with all three of them, I don't expect -- and have resolved the specific issue associated with that one design, I don't expect anything else like this to come along.

我們在該客戶的其他設計或任何其他客戶身上都沒有看到類似的東西。該問題已解決。不幸的是，它確實對毛利率產生了影響。但隨著我們繼續在其他兩家 HBM 製造商中佔據份額，我們不會再看到類似情況了。這是逐步提升並學習向每個客戶交付特定應用程式的一些細微細節的一部分。但現在，這三種設計都已經達到了產量，我並不期望——並且已經解決了與該設計相關的具體問題，我並不期望再出現類似問題。

Okay. Great, thank you.

好的。太好了，謝謝。

Charles Shi from Needham & Company.

來自 Needham & Company 的 Charles Shi。

Hi, Mike. Thanks for taking my question. I'm actually viewing the ramp-up cost issue that happened in Q2 with another HBM customer, probably I see that as a good problem to have. To me, it feels like you guys are more deeply involved in that particular customer's ramp.

你好，麥克。感謝您回答我的問題。我實際上正在關注另一個 HBM 客戶在第二季度發生的成本上升問題，也許我認為這是個好問題。對我來說，感覺你們更深入地參與了那個特定客戶的發展。

So if I go back maybe like one year-ish or maybe a little bit longer, I thought that you guys initially had pretty low market share assumptions with that particular customer. But how have things been evolved? And let's say compared with your -- the HBM leader, the market share you have there, how is your market share at this current -- this particular customer being -- I mean, is it actually getting closer to the market share you have at the leader? Or any way you can quantify that would be great for us to think about your HBM ramp going into the future.

因此，如果我回顧大約一年或更久一點的時間，我認為你們最初對該特定客戶的市場份額假設相當低。但事情究竟是如何演變的呢？假設與 HBM 領導者相比，您在那裡的市場份額如何，目前您的市場份額如何 - 對於這個特定客戶 - 我的意思是，它是否實際上更接近您在領導者處的市場份額？或者您可以用任何方式來量化這一點，這對我們來說將非常有助於我們思考您未來的 HBM 成長。

Thanks. Got it. Well, I appreciate the glass is half full approach to the ramp-up cost issue. Obviously, we aspire to execute more cleanly than that, both for our financial results and in delivering to our customers. But nonetheless, it is indication of strong participation in a second customer's HBM4 ramps. I'd say we've got a lot of share opportunity there, right?

謝謝。知道了。嗯，我很欣賞這種樂觀的態度來解決增加成本問題。顯然，我們希望執行得更乾淨，無論是為了我們的財務表現還是為了向客戶提供服務。但儘管如此，這也顯示第二個客戶積極參與 HBM4 的開發。我想說我們在那裡有很多分享機會，對嗎？

If I contrast it to our number 1 customer, where we have a very strong share position, based on a strong historical partnership with that customer that goes back essentially decades as well as some great collaboration on aligning our technology road maps, that's a very strong share position. And as I've said in the past, I don't expect to duplicate that share position at the other two DRAM manufacturers.

如果我將其與我們的第一大客戶進行對比，我們擁有非常強大的市場份額，這基於我們與該客戶幾十年來建立的牢固歷史合作夥伴關係，以及在調整我們的技術路線圖方面的一些出色合作，這是一個非常強大的市場份額。正如我過去所說的那樣，我不希望在其他兩家 DRAM 製造商中複製這一份額地位。

Having said that, if you want to view an entitlement share position as maybe a 50/50 split, we're a long way from there. So that opportunity is in front of us. We definitely need to improve our execution, as we've shown. And we need to increase our capacity, which is part of the optimization we're doing in our existing footprint, but is also longer term behind us deploying our balance sheet to buy the Farmers Branch facility and begin to ramp it up.

話雖如此，如果你想將權益份額視為 50/50 的分配，那麼我們距離這個目標還有很長的路要走。所以這個機會就在我們面前。正如我們所展示的，我們確實需要提高我們的執行力。我們需要提高產能，這是我們在現有佈局中進行的優化的一部分，但也是長期的，我們需要部署資產負債表來購買 Farmers Branch 工廠並開始擴大產能。

Thanks, Mike. Maybe another question. I think it wasn't really being addressed anymore. Your microprocessor company, the customer, microprocessor customer, they are going through quite a lot of restructuring recently, restructuring, cost cutting, probably a lot of rethink of how they're going to do manufacturing, how they're going to do product development, et cetera.

謝謝，麥克。或許還有另一個問題。我認為這個問題實際上已經不再解決了。您的微處理器公司，客戶，微處理器客戶，他們最近正在經歷大量的重組、重組、削減成本，可能還會重新思考如何進行製造、如何進行產品開發等等。

I don't think you actually mentioned about the revenue trend for that particular customer. It was nice to see that customer's contribution actually went up in Q2. But what's the thought going forward from here and especially the implication from the restructuring that is currently underway? What would be the implication based on what you see today? Thanks.

我認為您實際上並沒有提到該特定客戶的收入趨勢。很高興看到客戶貢獻在第二季確實增加。但是，下一步的想法是什麼？特別是目前正在進行的重組意味著什麼？根據您今天所看到的情況，這意味著什麼？謝謝。

Yes. Well, obviously, there is a lot going on at that customer. If we look at what we're executing to now and the dialogue between the company, there's been no significant change. But obviously, you see some revenue volatility in our results with that customer. And I don't think that's a reflection of any kind of share volatility. I think that's a reflection of changes in programs, changes in priorities and changes in demand.

是的。嗯，顯然，那位顧客有很多事情要做。如果我們看看我們現在正在執行的情況以及公司之間的對話，就會發現並沒有發生重大變化。但顯然，您會看到我們與該客戶合作的業績中存在一些收入波動。我不認為這反映了任何類型的股票波動。我認為這反映了計劃的變化、優先事項的變化和需求的變化。

Longer term, if I back out a little bit, this is why it's so important for us to continue to make progress around our strategy of being a supplier to all the leading customers in the industry. They're all going to go through headwinds and tailwinds and ups and downs. And we want to make sure that we're a supplier to all the major customers in the industry so that we're somewhat insulated or at least buffered from these ups and downs of an individual customer. It's why it's so important for us to be now shipping in volume to all three major HBM providers. It's also why it's important that we continue to make progress, and we have made progress in the second quarter on qualifying and shipping in volume with the large fabless microprocessor company.

從長遠來看，如果我稍微退一步的話，這就是為什麼我們繼續圍繞成為行業內所有主要客戶的供應商的策略取得進展如此重要。他們都會經歷逆風、順風和起伏。我們希望確保我們是該行業所有主要客戶的供應商，以便我們能夠在一定程度上免受或至少緩衝單一客戶的波動影響。這就是為什麼我們現在向三大 HBM 供應商批量發貨如此重要。這也是為什麼我們繼續取得進展非常重要，我們在第二季度與大型無晶圓廠微處理器公司在資格認證和批量出貨方面取得了進展。

So different elements, no big change on the ground with that customer, but certainly, many different scenarios, which could be either positive or negative that we're working hard to insulate ourselves by making sure we're exposed to the alternative demand streams.

因此，對於不同的因素，客戶實際上沒有發生大的變化，但肯定會有很多不同的情況，這些情況可能是積極的，也可能是消極的，我們正在努力保護自己，確保我們能夠接觸到替代需求流。

Thanks, Mike. That's all for me.

謝謝，麥克。對我來說就這些了。

David Duley from Steelhead Securities.

Steelhead Securities 的 David Duley。

Thank you for taking my questions. I was wondering, first off, if you could just talk a little bit about what you might expect from the hyperscaler customers or the GPU customers in the second half of the calendar year. You talked about having some, I think, hyperscale revenue in the quarter that just ended.

感謝您回答我的問題。首先，我想知道您是否可以簡單談談您對今年下半年超大規模客戶或 GPU 客戶的期望。您談到了在剛結束的這個季度中有一些超大規模的收入。

I'm wondering if we're going to start to see the GPU guys use advanced probe cards and what the qualifications are, scheduling are around that. And are you seeing -- also the other area of excitement for some companies is the networking segment. I'm just wondering what you're seeing in these AI markets in the third and fourth quarter.

我想知道我們是否會開始看到 GPU 人員使用先進的探測卡，以及資格要求是什麼，時間安排是圍繞這一點進行的。您是否看到了——一些公司感興趣的另一個領域是網路領域。我只是想知道您在第三季和第四季看到了這些人工智慧市場的情況。

Yes. So if we look at -- let me start with the hyperscalers and then we'll move to the GPU piece. I think we've got pretty good exposure overall to networking. Although for us, it's not the biggest business. Some of these higher volume, high test intensity markets like the GPUs and the custom ASICs really are where we see the biggest probe card opportunity. So having said that, we did have a nice contribution, a multimillion-dollar contribution in the second quarter from one of the hyperscalers and custom ASICs, where we delivered one of our advanced probe card technologies to test one of their custom ASICs.

是的。因此，如果我們看一下——讓我從超大規模器開始，然後我們再轉到 GPU 部分。我認為我們在網路方面總體上已經獲得了相當好的曝光。儘管對我們來說，這並不是最大的生意。我們看到，一些容量更大、測試強度更高的市場，例如 GPU 和客製化 ASIC，確實蘊藏著最大的偵測卡機會。話雖如此，我們確實在第二季度從一家超大規模和定制 ASIC 公司獲得了一筆不錯的貢獻，價值數百萬美元，我們向他們提供了一種先進的探測卡技術來測試他們的一款定制 ASIC。

We continue to focus on what really is a new segment and application space for the industry, right? A lot of these hyperscalers are launching their own chip design and chip test teams, and that's a new activity where us and other members of the test ecosystem are focusing a lot of our application engineering and R&D resources. So seeing some nice progress there.

我們繼續關注什麼是真正的產業新領域和應用空間，對嗎？許多超大規模企業正在推出自己的晶片設計和晶片測試團隊，這是一項新的活動，我們和測試生態系統的其他成員正在集中大量的應用工程和研發資源。因此看到那裡有一些不錯的進展。

On the GPU front, we are continuing to make progress at qualifying for GPU testing, primarily through the foundries as the foundries are responsible for both the wafer sort and then the eventual advanced packaging associated with this. There has been adoption by the large GPU manufacturer of advanced probe cards. Unfortunately, that went to our competitor first. And I think if you follow them, you understand that. But we're rapidly catching up and qualifying and now moving into a phase of volume pilot production, where we expect to generate revenue around that application from that customer in the second half.

在 GPU 方面，我們在 GPU 測試資格方面繼續取得進展，主要透過代工廠，因為代工廠負責晶圓分類以及最終與此相關的先進封裝。大型 GPU 製造商已經採用了先進的偵測卡。不幸的是，這個目標首先落到了我們的競爭對手手中。我想如果你有關注他們，你就會明白這一點。但我們正在迅速趕上並取得資格，現在正進入批量試生產階段，我們預計下半年將從該客戶的應用中獲得收入。

Okay. And then I'm a little bit curious as to, with a flat outlook in Q3 to the Q2 revenue, why you would be bringing on additional capacity in Texas. I understand it's lower cost, but maybe help us understand what your capacity utilization rate is at your current facilities and what the thinking is of buying another facility with -- obviously, I think people expect more growth from you guys, but is there a reason you bought Texas now? Or what's the rationale? Thanks.

好的。然後我有點好奇，鑑於第三季的營收前景與第二季持平，為什麼你們要在德州增加產能。我知道成本較低，但也許可以幫助我們了解您目前設施的產能利用率是多少，以及購買另一個設施的想法——顯然，我認為人們對您們的成長抱有更大的期望，但您現在購買德克薩斯州有什麼原因嗎？或者說其理由是什麼？謝謝。

Yes. I got to paint a longer-term picture for you because I agree, right, if you could bring capacity online instantaneously, you wouldn't really do it now with a flat outlook. But if I look at our prospects longer term -- and let me paint a much longer-term or multiyear opportunity for you. If you look at the overall industry, I think most consensus forecasts have the semiconductor industry growing to $1 trillion sometime early in the next decade. So five-ish years out.

是的。我必須為你描繪一個長期的圖景，因為我同意，如果你可以立即將容量上線，那麼你現在就不會在平淡的前景下這樣做了。但如果我從更長遠的角度看待我們的前景——讓我為您描繪一個更長期或多年的機會。如果你看一下整個產業，我認為大多數一致預測都認為半導體產業將在未來十年初成長到 1 兆美元。大約五年後。

If we look at our markets, you've seen them grow faster than the industry. Test intensity is going up. And HBM is a great example where HBM test intensity -- basically 1% of HBM revenues are spent back on probe cards. That's a significant step-up from the industry average. And so if we put that math together, with even some modest share gain aspirations for us, it's not too hard to see doubling the size of FormFactor. And we need to have capacity in place. It takes a while to do these things.

如果我們觀察一下我們的市場，你會發現它們的成長速度比產業成長速度更快。考試強度不斷加大。HBM 是一個很好的例子，HBM 測試強度——基本上 1% 的 HBM 收入都花在了探針卡上。這比行業平均有了顯著提高。因此，如果我們把這些數字放在一起，即使我們對份額成長的期望很小，也不難看出 FormFactor 的規模會翻倍。我們需要具備相應的能力。做這些事需要一段時間。

The purchase of Farmers Branch was motivated by a couple of things, certainly, that long-term opportunity, but also it's kind of a perfect fit for us. And there were a handful of facilities like this. And by handful, I mean, two in the US that were the right size, equipped to -- with the right facilities, the right clean room capabilities. So this was really an opportunistic buy for us to get us the optionality and future capacity in place that we're going to need arguably 2026, 2027, but you've got to start that now if you're going to be executing and qualified with that facility with our key customers over that time frame.

收購 Farmers Branch 的動機有幾個，當然是出於長期的考慮，而這對我們來說也是完美的選擇。像這樣的設施還有很多。我所說的少數是指美國的兩家規模合適、配備齊全、設施齊全、無塵室功能齊全的公司。因此，這對我們來說確實是一個機會主義的收購，讓我們獲得我們在 2026 年、2027 年可能需要的可選性和未來產能，但如果您打算在那個時間範圍內與我們的關鍵客戶一起執行和認證該設施，那麼您現在就必須開始這樣做。

Okay. And I'm going to take one other shot at the second half revenue kind of levels. I know you don't want to guide to Q4, but is there any reason to expect that the current HBM ramp that we're seeing at the two major customers who are part of your customer mix would slow down for any reason in the near term given what we've heard from their big customers and the hyperscalers? I mean it just seems -- so anyway, I'd love your commentary there.

好的。我將再次預測下半年的收入水準。我知道您不想預測第四季度，但根據我們從他們的大客戶和超大規模廠商那裡聽到的消息，是否有理由預期，我們在你們客戶組合中的兩個主要客戶那裡看到的當前 HBM 增長速度會在短期內因某種原因而放緩？我的意思是，這看起來只是——所以無論如何，我都很喜歡你的評論。

That's right. And again, I want to reemphasize that we are shipping in volume to all three -- shipping HBM3 -- HBM probe cards to all three major DRAM manufacturers. So we're beginning to diversify that business. But we also took pains to point out that there is going to be some quarter-to-quarter volatility. The direction is clear, right, the investments by the hyperscalers, the increased DRAM bit intensity associated with HBM coupling to the GPUs. It's clear that, that's a strong growth market, and we expect that business to grow.

這是正確的。我想再次強調，我們正在向所有三家主要 DRAM 製造商批量發貨——發貨 HBM3——HBM 探測卡。因此我們開始實現業務多元化。但我們也煞費苦心地指出，季度間可能會出現一些波動。方向很明確，對吧，超大規模的投資，與 HBM 耦合到 GPU 相關的 DRAM 位元強度的增加。顯然，這是一個強勁成長的市場，我們預期業務將會成長。

But even as you've seen through the HBM3 to three now into four trajectory, where our revenue was dominated by a single customer, the leader, there's some volatility in there. So no question, the long-term trend line is up. That doesn't mean every quarter is going to be sequentially up. I'm hoping and expecting that as we bring all three HBM customers on and their share balances a little bit, that, that will diversify the business some and smooth things out.

但是，即使你已經看到從 HBM3 到 3 現在到 4 的軌跡，我們的收入主要由一個客戶（領導者）主導，但其中仍存在一些波動。因此毫無疑問，長期趨勢線是上升的。這並不意味著每季都會連續上漲。我希望並期待，隨著我們引入所有三個 HBM 客戶並稍微增加他們的股份餘額，這將使業務多樣化並使事情變得順利。

But the secular growth in HBM is something we completely agree with. It's part of the reason why we're making some of these investments in capacity like Farmers Branch and improving our overall outputs and yields.

但我們完全同意 HBM 的長期成長。這也是我們在農民分支等產能方面進行一些投資並提高整體產出和產量的原因之一。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Christian Schwab from Craig-Hallum Capital.

（操作員指示）Craig-Hallum Capital 的 Christian Schwab。

Hey great. Most of my questions have been asked, but just a follow-up on the hyperscaler GPU, custom ASIC business. It's good to do a few million dollars in the most recent quarter, but as kind of an initiative to help grow foundry and logic and improve gross margins in aggregate for the company -- I mean, how long of a time frame do you expect that to be more of a significant contributor and scale number?

嘿，太棒了。我的大部分問題都已經被問過了，但只是想跟進一下超大規模 GPU、定制 ASIC 業務。最近一個季度能賺幾百萬美元是件好事，但作為一種幫助發展代工和邏輯業務並提高公司總體毛利率的舉措——我的意思是，您預計在多長時間內這會成為一個更重要的貢獻者和規模數字？

Yes. I think it's a great question and one that we're debating internally because there's clearly some different crosscurrents in what GPUs are going to be used for, what merchant GPUs are going to be used for, what custom ASICs are going to be used for. But I think as we look into the latter part of 2025 and into 2026, we're working hard to make sure we're exposed to both of those trends.

是的。我認為這是一個很好的問題，我們正在內部討論這個問題，因為在 GPU 的用途、商用 GPU 的用途、定制 ASIC 的用途方面顯然存在一些不同的意見。但我認為，當我們展望 2025 年下半年和 2026 年時，我們正在努力確保我們能夠接觸到這兩種趨勢。

I updated you on the GPU -- gave you some updates on the hyperscaler piece. To a large extent, our business in the hyperscaler custom ASIC is going to depend on the success of their product road maps. And I think a lot of that is still a to-be-determined state. Having said that, it is a great opportunity to potentially diversify the foundry and logic business further and move its demand drivers away from things like PC and mobile, which seem to be stuck in pretty unexciting growth times.

我向您介紹了 GPU 的最新情況——為您提供了有關超大規模部分的一些更新。在很大程度上，我們在超大規模客製化 ASIC 領域的業務將取決於其產品路線圖的成功。我認為其中許多仍處於有待確定的狀態。話雖如此，這仍然是一個絕佳的機會，可以進一步實現代工和邏輯業務的多元化，並將其需求驅動力從個人電腦和行動裝置等領域轉移開來，因為這些領域似乎正處於相當平淡的成長時期。

Great, no other questions. Thanks.

太好了，沒有其他問題了。謝謝。

Gus Richard from Northland Capital Markets

Northland Capital Markets 的 Gus Richard

Yes, thanks for taking your question. Just on the tariffs, 1.5% is a reasonably good-sized impact. And I'm just wondering, first of all, is it your imported raw materials? And then if that's the case, what can you guys do to diversify your supply chain to minimize the impact?

是的，感謝您的提問。僅就關稅而言，1.5% 的影響就相當大了。我只是想知道，首先，這是你們進口的原料嗎？如果是這樣的話，你們可以做些什麼來使供應鏈多樣化，以最大限度地減少影響？

Yes, you're right, Gus. This is a significant impact on our gross margins. It's because we are importing goods into the US. So what we do in response is we are working closely with our vendors on different scenarios. It's really on a case-by-case basis. But as we said in the previous earnings call, we are taking kind of wait-and-see approach as we evaluate various tariff scenarios before committing to any significant change to our manufacturing footprint and our supply chain.

是的，你是對的，格斯。這對我們的毛利率有重大影響。這是因為我們正在向美國進口貨物。因此，我們採取的措施是與供應商就不同情況進行密切合作。這確實要根據具體情況來決定。但正如我們在上次財報電話會議上所說，在對我們的製造足跡和供應鏈做出任何重大改變之前，我們正在採取觀望態度，評估各種關稅情境。

And we're also looking into maybe getting drawbacks options. But we need to keep in mind the semiconductor supply chain is complex, and we are developing our supply chain to mitigate the impacts of the tariffs as much as possible while acknowledging the negative impact on the gross margin as a result of the tariffs under the different scenarios.

我們也在研究可能的缺點。但我們需要記住，半導體供應鏈是複雜的，我們正在開發我們的供應鏈，以盡可能減輕關稅的影響，同時承認在不同情況下關稅對毛利率的負面影響。

Got it. And then my follow-up is on silicon photonics. I think in the second half, we should be entering into pilot production, at least in some programs. And I was just wondering if you could give us a little bit of a status on where those ramps are and what those pilot programs are.

知道了。接下來我的研究方向是矽光子學。我認為下半年我們應該會進入試生產階段，至少在一些項目上。我只是想知道您是否可以向我們介紹這些坡道的位置以及這些試點項目的情況。

Yes. I touched on it in the prepared remarks. We now have multiple systems installed that are indeed involved in pilot production, primarily at the foundry for our large driver customer. The work now is really on making sure this technology is hardened and ready for high-volume production as we move into 2026.

是的。我在準備好的發言中提到了這一點。我們現在已經安裝了多個確實參與試生產的系統，主要是在我們大型驅動器客戶的代工廠。現在的工作實際上是確保這項技術能夠得到完善，並為 2026 年的大批量生產做好準備。

So we've got multiple tools running production levels they've never run at before, right, pilot production levels, though, with one or two designs. But really, a lot of the work and investment going on right now, both by us, our customers and our partners, is to make sure that we're all ready for what's anticipated to be a significant ramp as we move into 2026.

因此，我們有多個工具在運行以前從未達到過的生產水平，對，是試點生產水平，但只有一兩種設計。但實際上，我們、我們的客戶和合作夥伴目前正在進行的大量工作和投資都是為了確保我們都為 2026 年預計出現的顯著成長做好準備。

As you probably know, CPO is one of the more compelling -- silicon photonics and co-packaged optics or CPO, one of the more compelling ways to reduce data center energy consumption, which I think in any reasonable scenario is going to start to turn out to be the limiter in AI growth. You just can't get the power for data centers to build out. And so I think solving -- helping solve this part of the equation of the actual energy consumption, power usage of the data center is a pretty exciting place for us to be.

您可能知道，CPO 是最引人注目的技術之一——矽光子學和共封裝光學元件或 CPO，是降低資料中心能耗的最引人注目的方法之一，我認為在任何合理的情況下，它都將開始成為 AI 成長的限制因素。你根本無法獲得建造資料中心所需的電力。因此，我認為解決——幫助解決資料中心實際能源消耗、電力使用等式的這一部分對我們來說是一個非常令人興奮的事情。

Got it. All right, very good. Thank you so much. Thanks, guys.

知道了。好的，非常好。太感謝了。謝謝大家。

Thank you. This does conclude the question-and-answer session of today's program. I'd like to hand the program back to Mike Slessor for any further remarks.

謝謝。今天節目的問答環節到此結束。我想將程式交還給 Mike Slessor，以便他提出進一步的意見。

Yes. Thanks for joining us today. If you take a look on our Investor Relations website, we're doing several conferences in late August and the early part of September and would hope to see you there. Until then, take care.

是的。感謝您今天加入我們。如果您查看我們的投資者關係網站，我們將在 8 月底和 9 月初舉辦幾次會議，希望在那裡見到您。在那之前，請多保重。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect. Good day.

女士們、先生們，感謝各位參加今天的會議。該計劃確實就此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。再會。