(FORM) 2022 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Welcome, everyone, to FormFactor's Third Quarter 2022 Earnings Conference Call. On today's call are Chief Executive Officer, Mike Slessor; and Chief Financial Officer, Shai Shahar. Before we begin, Stan Finkelstein, the company's VP of Investor Relations will remind you of some important information.

歡迎大家參加 FormFactor 2022 年第三季度收益電話會議。參加今天電話會議的有首席執行官 Mike Slessor；和首席財務官 Shai Shahar。在我們開始之前，公司投資者關係副總裁 Stan Finkelstein 將提醒您一些重要信息。

Thank you. Today's company will be discussing GAAP P&L results and some important non-GAAP results intended to supplement your understanding of the company's financials. Reconciliations of GAAP to non-GAAP measures and other financial information are available in the press release issued today by the company and on the Investor Relations section of our website.

謝謝你。今天的公司將討論 GAAP P&L 結果和一些重要的非 GAAP 結果，旨在補充您對公司財務狀況的理解。公司今天發布的新聞稿和我們網站的投資者關係部分提供了 GAAP 與非 GAAP 措施和其他財務信息的調節。

Today's discussion contains forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. Examples of such forward-looking statements includes also, with respect to the projections of financial and business performance; future macroeconomic and geopolitical conditions the benefits of acquisitions and investments in capacity and in new technologies, the impacts of global, regional and national health crisis, including the COVID-19; anticipated industry trends; potential disruptions in our supply chain; the impacts of regulatory changes, including the recent U.S.-China trade restrictions; the anticipated demand for products; our ability to develop, produce and sell products; and the assumptions upon which such statements are based.

今天的討論包含聯邦證券法含義內的前瞻性陳述。此類前瞻性陳述的示例還包括關於財務和業務績效的預測；未來的宏觀經濟和地緣政治條件收購和投資能力和新技術的好處，全球、區域和國家健康危機的影響，包括 COVID-19；預期的行業趨勢；我們供應鏈的潛在中斷；監管變化的影響，包括最近的美中貿易限制；對產品的預期需求；我們開發、生產和銷售產品的能力；以及此類陳述所依據的假設。

These statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed during this call. Information on risk factors and uncertainties is contained in our most recent filing on Form 10-K with the SEC for fiscal year ended 2021 and in our other SEC filings, which are available on the SEC's website at www.sec.gov and in our press release issued today. Forward-looking statements are made as of today, October 26, 2022, and we assume no obligation to update them.

這些陳述受到已知和未知的風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果與本次電話會議中表達的結果存在重大差異。關於風險因素和不確定性的信息包含在我們最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的截至 2021 財年的 10-K 表格以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中，這些文件可在美國證券交易委員會網站 www.sec.gov 和我們的媒體上查閱今天發布。前瞻性陳述截至今天，即 2022 年 10 月 26 日，我們不承擔更新它們的義務。

With that, we will now turn the call over to FormFactor CEO, Mike Slessor.

有了這個，我們現在將把電話轉給 FormFactor 首席執行官 Mike Slessor。

Thanks, everyone, for joining us today. As anticipated, FormFactor's third quarter revenue was down sequentially from the second quarter, chiefly due to the expected reduction in demand for foundry and logic probe cards, and this produced the forecasted decline in gross margins and profitability. Partially offsetting this reduction in probe card demand was record strength in our systems business, highlighting the benefits of our lab to fab diversification strategy. Compared to our outlook range, revenue was slightly below the midpoint. Non-GAAP gross margin was at the midpoint and non-GAAP earnings per share were near the top of the range.

謝謝大家今天加入我們。正如預期的那樣，FormFactor 第三季度收入環比第二季度下降，這主要是由於代工和邏輯探針卡的需求預期減少，這導致毛利率和盈利能力出現預期下降。我們系統業務的創紀錄實力部分抵消了探針卡需求的減少，突出了我們實驗室到晶圓廠多元化戰略的優勢。與我們的展望範圍相比，收入略低於中點。非 GAAP 毛利率處於中點，非 GAAP 每股收益接近區間頂部。

We do not view the current reduction in probe card demand as a fundamental change in our business. Rather, we see it as a response by our customers to cyclical declines in their businesses, especially in consumer-driven segments like client PC and mobile. Based on the customer, industry and macroeconomic data we have at present, we expect this reduced demand to extend well into next year. In response, today, we announced decisive steps to better align FormFactor's cost structure with these temporarily reduced demand levels. Shai will describe in more detail the steps we are implementing during the fourth quarter, which are designed to preserve profitability at the revenue run rates we believe are likely to prevail until the current downturn ends.

我們不認為目前探針卡需求的減少是我們業務的根本變化。相反，我們將其視為客戶對其業務週期性衰退的回應，尤其是在客戶端 PC 和移動設備等消費者驅動的領域。根據我們目前掌握的客戶、行業和宏觀經濟數據，我們預計這種需求下降將延續到明年。作為回應，我們今天宣布了決定性的步驟，以更好地使 FormFactor 的成本結構與這些暫時降低的需求水平保持一致。 Shai 將更詳細地描述我們在第四季度實施的步驟，這些步驟旨在以我們認為可能會持續的收入運行率保持盈利能力，直到當前的低迷期結束。

This operational restructuring notwithstanding, we believe the core tenets of our strategy remain firmly in place, and we remain committed to achieving our target financial model. These core strategic tenets are: first, sustained semiconductor content growth in both consumer and enterprise applications. Second, the industry's relentless investments in new technology and capacity and third, the device-specific consumable nature of advanced probe cards, which, when combined with our customers' innovation-driven investments in engineering systems, have historically resulted in less volatile demand cycles than wafer fabrication equipment.

儘管進行了這種運營重組，但我們相信我們戰略的核心原則仍然堅定不移，我們仍然致力於實現我們的目標財務模式。這些核心戰略原則是：首先，在消費者和企業應用中半導體內容持續增長。第二，該行業對新技術和產能的不懈投資，第三，高級探針卡的特定設備消耗品性質，結合我們客戶對工程系統的創新驅動投資，歷來導致需求週期的波動性低於晶圓製造設備。

Consistent with this strategy, we are continuing to invest in both R&D for new product innovation and competitive differentiation as well as in the long lead time facilities and equipment portions of our capacity increase plans. These investments are designed to position FormFactor for market share gains and above-industry revenue and profit growth when we emerge from the current cyclical downturn.

與這一戰略一致，我們將繼續投資於新產品創新和競爭差異化的研發，以及我們產能增加計劃中的長期設施和設備部分。這些投資旨在讓 FormFactor 在我們擺脫當前的周期性低迷時獲得市場份額增長以及高於行業的收入和利潤增長。

Turning now to our fourth quarter outlook. Our sequentially weaker outlook is due to 3 primary factors: one, the new U.S.-China trade restrictions announced on October 7; two, weaker DRAM probe card demand; and three, further softness in foundry and logic probe card demand with specific weakness in RF probe cards. As we're a U.S.-based supplier with significant exposure to the leading-edge foundry and memory technologies affected by the recent U.S.-China trade regulations, these restrictions are a headwind in all of FormFactor's businesses. An example is our DRAM probe card business, where approximately half of our forecasted fourth quarter sequential decline in that market is due to hold on shipments and service of advanced DRAM probe cards to leading-edge domestic customers in China.

現在轉向我們的第四季度展望。我們連續走弱的前景歸因於 3 個主要因素：一是 10 月 7 日宣布的新的美中貿易限制；二、DRAM探針卡需求疲軟；第三，代工和邏輯探針卡需求進一步疲軟，而射頻探針卡的具體弱點。由於我們是一家總部位於美國的供應商，在受近期美中貿易法規影響的前沿代工和內存技術方面有重大影響，因此這些限制對 FormFactor 的所有業務都是不利因素。一個例子是我們的 DRAM 探針卡業務，我們預測該市場第四季度環比下降的大約一半是由於暫停向中國領先的國內客戶提供先進的 DRAM 探針卡的出貨和服務。

FormFactor has taken the necessary steps to ensure full compliance with the new rules by holding shipments and support as required by U.S.-China trade restrictions. As the situation evolves, our local China team is working closely with customers and our trade compliance team to obtain releases and licenses to enable permitted shipments of the existing backlog.

FormFactor 已採取必要措施，按照美中貿易限制的要求，通過暫停發貨和支持來確保完全遵守新規則。隨著形勢的發展，我們當地的中國團隊正在與客戶和我們的貿易合規團隊密切合作，以獲得發布和許可，以允許現有積壓貨物的裝運。

In Foundry and Logic probe cards, our largest business, we expect a further reduction in demand for core microprocessor and Logic probe cards in the fourth quarter, although not a steeper sequential decline as we experienced in the third quarter. Inside the foundry and logic market, RF probe card demand continues to decline, as customers burn off excess inventory of existing bond SAW filters and other RF front-end components, like modems, switches and power amplifiers, especially in low- to mid-tier 5G mobile handsets.

在我們最大的業務代工和邏輯探針卡中，我們預計第四季度對核心微處理器和邏輯探針卡的需求將進一步減少，儘管不會像第三季度那樣出現更大幅度的連續下降。在代工和邏輯市場內部，RF 探針卡需求持續下降，因為客戶消耗了現有鍵合 SAW 濾波器和其他 RF 前端組件（如調製解調器、開關和功率放大器）的過剩庫存，尤其是在中低端5G手機。

Significantly, in the microprocessor business, we've begun volume shipments of probe cards to support pilot production of a major chiplet-based client CPU product. Advanced packaging chiplet architectures like EMIB, Foveros and 3D Fabric are an exciting opportunity for FormFactor. As we've noted in the past, whether based on conventional solder-based assembly processes or more revolutionary process like copper-to-copper hybrid bonding, these chiplet or tile-based integration schemes drive both higher test intensity, which expands the number of probe cards required per wafer out and higher test complexity, which raises the performance requirements for the probe card.

值得注意的是，在微處理器業務中，我們已經開始批量出貨探針卡，以支持基於小芯片的主要客戶端 CPU 產品的試生產。 EMIB、Foveros 和 3D Fabric 等先進封裝小芯片架構為 FormFactor 帶來了激動人心的機會。正如我們過去所指出的那樣，無論是基於傳統的基於焊料的組裝工藝，還是基於銅對銅混合鍵合等更具革命性的工藝，這些基於小芯片或瓦片的集成方案都推動了更高的測試強度，從而擴大了每晶圓需要出的探針卡和更高的測試複雜度，這就對探針卡的性能提出了要求。

Advanced probe card architectures like FormFactor's MEMS technologies are essential to meet these challenging technical requirements and a compelling cost of ownership while also meeting the short delivery lead times needed to support our customers' rapid and dynamic production ramps.

像 FormFactor 的 MEMS 技術這樣的高級探針卡架構對於滿足這些具有挑戰性的技術要求和令人信服的擁有成本至關重要，同時還要滿足支持我們客戶快速和動態生產坡道所需的較短交付週期。

Turning to memory probe cards. We expect a significant sequential fourth quarter reduction in DRAM probe card demand partially offset by moderate strength in Flash probe cards. As discussed above, approximately half of the reduction in DRAM is directly attributable to the new U.S.-China trade restrictions with the other half the result of well-publicized weekend market conditions for DRAM chips, which is causing our customers to reduce the magnitude and speed of their new product ramps.

轉向內存探針卡。我們預計第四季度 DRAM 探針卡需求的連續顯著下降部分被閃存探針卡的適度增長所抵消。如上所述，大約一半的 DRAM 減少直接歸因於新的美中貿易限制，另一半是廣為人知的 DRAM 芯片週末市場狀況的結果，這導致我們的客戶減少幅度和速度他們的新產品坡道。

It's worth noting that the third quarter all-time high in Systems segment revenues is expected to sustain in the fourth quarter, showing the benefit of participating in customers' early-stage R&D programs and the positive impact of successfully integrated tuck-in acquisitions completed during the last several years. Even in the current downturn, customers are aggressively investing in their technology road maps with development of innovations like gate-all-around transistors, advanced packaging, silicon photonics and quantum computing together producing solid results in our systems business.

值得注意的是，第三季度系統部門收入的歷史新高預計將在第四季度持續，顯示參與客戶早期研發計劃的好處以及在此期間完成的成功整合收購的積極影響最近幾年。即使在當前的低迷時期，客戶也在積極投資於他們的技術路線圖，開發環柵晶體管、先進封裝、矽光子學和量子計算等創新技術，共同為我們的系統業務帶來可觀的成果。

I'd like to close by affirming that we remain confident in the long-term growth prospects for FormFactor in the industry overall, driven by the fundamental trends of semiconductor content growth and innovations like advanced packaging. These are trends where FormFactor is well positioned as an industry and technology leader, and we're confident that our resilience and commitment to invest in R&D and capacity will position FormFactor to emerge from the current downturn a stronger and leaner competitor, enabling us to achieve our target model that delivers $2 of non-GAAP earnings per share on $850 million of revenue.

最後，我想申明，在半導體內容增長和先進封裝等創新的基本趨勢的推動下，我們對 FormFactor 在整個行業的長期增長前景充滿信心。這些是 FormFactor 作為行業和技術領導者的良好定位的趨勢，我們相信我們的彈性和對研發和能力投資的承諾將使 FormFactor 從當前的低迷中脫穎而出，成為一個更強大和更精簡的競爭對手，使我們能夠實現我們的目標模型是在 8.5 億美元的收入中實現每股 2 美元的非 GAAP 收益。

Shai, over to you.

夏伊，交給你了。

Thank you, Mike, and good afternoon. As you saw in our press release and as Mike mentioned, Q3 revenues were slightly below the midpoint of our outlook range. Non-GAAP gross margin was at the midpoint of the range and non-GAAP EPS were at the high end of the range. Third quarter revenues were $181 million, an 11.3% sequential decrease from our second quarter revenues and a decrease of 4.8% year-over-year. Probe Card segment revenues were $139.4 million in the third quarter, a decrease of $28.3 million or 16.9% from the record Q2. The decrease was driven mainly by lower Foundry and Logic revenue.

謝謝你，邁克，下午好。正如您在我們的新聞稿中看到的和邁克提到的那樣，第三季度的收入略低於我們展望範圍的中點。非 GAAP 毛利率處於範圍的中點，非 GAAP 每股收益處於範圍的高端。第三季度收入為 1.81 億美元，比第二季度收入環比下降 11.3%，同比下降 4.8%。第三季度探針卡部門的收入為 1.394 億美元，比創紀錄的第二季度減少 2830 萬美元或 16.9%。減少的主要原因是晶圓代工和邏輯收入減少。

Systems segment revenues were a record $41.5 million in Q3, an increase of $5.3 million or 14.6% from the second quarter. Within the Probe card segment, Q3 Foundry and Logic revenues were $90.6 million, a 26% decrease from Q2. Foundry and Logic revenues comprised 50% of total company revenues, 10 percentage points lower than the 60% in the second quarter. DRAM revenues were $35 million in Q3, $1.9 million or 5.2% lower than in the second quarter and were 19% of total quarterly revenues as compared to 18% of revenues in the second quarter.

第三季度系統部門的收入達到創紀錄的 4150 萬美元，比第二季度增加 530 萬美元或 14.6%。在探針卡部分，Q3 Foundry 和 Logic 的收入為 9060 萬美元，比第二季度下降 26%。 Foundry 和 Logic 收入占公司總收入的 50%，比第二季度的 60% 低 10 個百分點。第三季度 DRAM 收入為 3500 萬美元，比第二季度減少 190 萬美元或 5.2%，佔季度總收入的 19%，而第二季度為 18%。

Flash revenues of $13.9 million in Q3 were $5.4 million higher than in the second quarter and were 8% of total revenues in Q3, higher than the 4% in Q2. GAAP gross margin for the third quarter was 34.4% of revenues as compared to 46.3% in Q2. Cost of revenues included $8.3 million of GAAP to non-GAAP reconciling items, which we outlined in our press release issued today and in the reconciliation table available in the Investor Relations section of our website. Q3 reconciling items included a $6 million inventory write-off related to the restructuring we announced in September 2021.

第三季度閃存收入為 1390 萬美元，比第二季度高出 540 萬美元，佔第三季度總收入的 8%，高於第二季度的 4%。第三季度的 GAAP 毛利率佔收入的 34.4%，而第二季度為 46.3%。收入成本包括 830 萬美元的 GAAP 與非 GAAP 調節項目，我們在今天發布的新聞稿和我們網站投資者關係部分提供的調節表中概述了這些項目。第三季度對賬項目包括與我們在 2021 年 9 月宣布的重組相關的 600 萬美元庫存註銷。

On a non-GAAP basis, gross margin for the third quarter was 39%, 8.4 percentage points lower than the 47.4% non-GAAP gross margin in Q2, with a lower gross margin in the Probe Card segment, partially offset by the increase in Systems segment gross margin. Our Probe Card segment gross margin was 34.6% in the third quarter, a decrease of 12.2 percentage points compared to the 46.8% in Q2. The decrease is mainly due to higher inventory reserves and lower overall segment revenues, specifically, lower Foundry and Logic revenues, partially offset by higher Flash revenues, which resulted in less favorable product mix.

按非美國通用會計準則計算，第三季度毛利率為 39%，比第二季度 47.4% 的非美國通用會計準則毛利率低 8.4 個百分點，其中探針卡業務毛利率較低，部分被系統部門毛利率。第三季度我們的探針卡業務毛利率為 34.6%，與第二季度的 46.8% 相比下降了 12.2 個百分點。減少的主要原因是較高的庫存儲備和較低的整體部門收入，具體而言，較低的 Foundry 和 Logic 收入，部分被較高的閃存收入所抵消，這導致不太有利的產品組合。

Our Q3 Systems segment gross margin was 53.7%, 320 basis points higher than the 50.5% gross margin in the second quarter. This increase is due to higher revenue and a more favorable product mix. Our GAAP operating expenses were $58 million for the third quarter, $4 million lower than in the second quarter. Non-GAAP operating expenses for the third quarter were $49.5 million, or 27.4% of revenues as compared with $54.5 million or 26.7% of revenues in Q2. The $5 million decrease relates mainly to lower performance-based compensation, lower R&D spend and higher PTO utilization.

我們第三季度系統部門的毛利率為 53.7%，比第二季度的 50.5% 毛利率高出 320 個基點。這一增長是由於更高的收入和更有利的產品組合。我們第三季度的 GAAP 運營費用為 5800 萬美元，比第二季度減少了 400 萬美元。第三季度非美國通用會計準則運營費用為 4950 萬美元，佔收入的 27.4%，而第二季度為 5450 萬美元，佔收入的 26.7%。 500 萬美元的減少主要與較低的基於績效的薪酬、較低的研發支出和較高的 PTO 利用率有關。

Company noncash expenses for the third quarter included $8 million for stock-based compensation, $1.6 million higher than in the second quarter due to the increase in fair value of the annual RSU grants as a result of a higher stock price at the time of grant; $2.8 million for amortization of acquisition-related intangibles, similar to the second quarter; and depreciation of $7 million, $0.2 million lower than in the second quarter.

公司第三季度的非現金支出包括 800 萬美元的股票薪酬，比第二季度高出 160 萬美元，這是由於授予時股價較高導致年度 RSU 授予的公允價值增加； 280 萬美元用於與第二季度類似的收購相關無形資產攤銷；折舊 700 萬美元，比第二季度減少 20 萬美元。

GAAP operating income for Q3 was $4 million as compared with $32.6 million in Q2. Non-GAAP operating income for the third quarter was $21 million compared with $42.3 million in the second quarter. GAAP net income for the third quarter was $4.4 million or $0.06 per fully diluted share compared with $30 million or $0.38 per fully diluted share in the previous quarter. The non-GAAP effective tax rate for the third quarter was 19%, 460 basis points higher than the 14.4% in Q2 and within our estimated non-GAAP annual effective tax rate of 15% to 20%. We expect to be on the lower end of this range for Q4 and for the full 2022 fiscal year.

第三季度的 GAAP 營業收入為 400 萬美元，而第二季度為 3260 萬美元。第三季度非美國通用會計準則營業收入為 2100 萬美元，而第二季度為 4230 萬美元。第三季度的 GAAP 淨收入為 440 萬美元或每股完全攤薄收益 0.06 美元，而上一季度為 3000 萬美元或每股完全攤薄收益 0.38 美元。第三季度非美國通用會計準則有效稅率為 19%，比第二季度的 14.4% 高 460 個基點，在我們估計的非美國通用會計準則年度有效稅率 15% 至 20% 之內。我們預計第四季度和整個 2022 財年將處於該範圍的低端。

As previously communicated, our annual cash tax rate is expected to remain around the mid- to high single digits of non-GAAP pretax income until we fully utilize our remaining U.S.-based R&D credits. Third quarter non-GAAP net income was $18.3 million or $0.24 per fully diluted share compared to $36.8 million or $0.46 per fully diluted share in Q2.

如前所述，我們的年度現金稅率預計將保持在非 GAAP 稅前收入的中高個位數左右，直到我們充分利用我們剩餘的美國研發信貸。第三季度非 GAAP 淨收入為 1830 萬美元或每股完全攤薄收益 0.24 美元，而第二季度為 3680 萬美元或每股完全攤薄收益 0.46 美元。

Moving to the balance sheet and cash flows. We generated $15.5 million of free cash flow in the third quarter, $12.8 million lower than the $28.3 million in Q2. Net cash provided by operations was $18.4 million lower than in Q2 and capital expenditures were $5.6 million lower than in the previous quarter. At quarter end, total cash and investments were $255 million. As of the end of the third quarter, we had 2 term loans remaining on our balance sheet, totaling $17.5 million.

轉向資產負債表和現金流量。我們在第三季度產生了 1550 萬美元的自由現金流，比第二季度的 2830 萬美元減少了 1280 萬美元。運營提供的淨現金比第二季度減少 1840 萬美元，資本支出比上一季度減少 560 萬美元。截至季度末，現金和投資總額為 2.55 億美元。截至第三季度末，我們的資產負債表上還有 2 筆定期貸款，總計 1750 萬美元。

We invested $8.9 million in capital expenditures during the third quarter compared to $14.5 million in Q2. With the core drivers underpinning our strategy still in place, we continue to execute on our capacity increase plans, albeit at a slower rate. As we approach year-end, we are narrowing the range of the full year expected CapEx to $60 million to $70 million. We still expect CapEx to return to 3.5% to 4% of revenues in our target financial model after we conclude these capacity increases.

我們在第三季度投資了 890 萬美元的資本支出，而第二季度為 1450 萬美元。由於支撐我們戰略的核心驅動因素仍然存在，我們繼續執行我們的產能增加計劃，儘管速度較慢。隨著年底的臨近，我們將全年預期資本支出的範圍縮小至 6000 萬至 7000 萬美元。在我們完成這些產能增加後，我們仍然預計資本支出將恢復到目標財務模型中收入的 3.5% 至 4%。

Regarding stock buyback. During the third quarter, we purchased approximately 570,000 shares under our $75 million 2-year buyback program for a total of $19.2 million. At Q3 quarter end, $27.5 million remain available for future repurchases.

關於股票回購。第三季度，我們根據 7500 萬美元的 2 年回購計劃購買了大約 570,000 股股票，總計 1920 萬美元。在第三季度末，仍有 2750 萬美元可用於未來回購。

Turning to the fourth quarter non-GAAP outlook. We expect lower revenue in the fourth quarter due to the 3 factors that Mike mentioned. In this environment, we are focused on reducing spending while investing to capture both short- and long-term demand in our markets. Accordingly, we today announced an operational restructuring plan to reduce costs and improve the efficiency and effectiveness of our business. The plan includes lowering headcount by approximately 13% of our workforce, mostly in the Probe Card segment and SG&A. We expect these actions will be largely completed by the end of 2022. We estimate that these actions, once fully implemented, will reduce our cost structure by $25 million to $30 million on an annual basis with approximately 2/3 of the savings benefiting cost of sales and 1/3 benefiting OpEx. The reduced demand results in a Q4 revenue outlook of $155 million, plus or minus $5 million.

轉向第四季度非 GAAP 展望。由於 Mike 提到的三個因素，我們預計第四季度的收入會下降。在這種環境下，我們專注於減少支出，同時進行投資以捕捉市場的短期和長期需求。因此，我們今天宣布了一項運營重組計劃，以降低成本並提高我們業務的效率和效益。該計劃包括將員工人數減少約 13%，主要是在探針卡部門和 SG&A。我們預計這些行動將在 2022 年底基本完成。我們估計，這些行動一旦全面實施，每年將使我們的成本結構減少 2500 萬至 3000 萬美元，其中約 2/3 的節省將受益於銷售額和 1/3 受益於運營支出。需求減少導致第四季度收入前景為 1.55 億美元，上下浮動 500 萬美元。

Since the restructuring plan was implemented in mid-quarter, the savings that I mentioned will only partially benefit Q4. Accordingly, together with the impact of the decline in revenue and a less favorable product mix, fourth quarter non-GAAP gross margin is expected to be 33%, plus or minus 150 basis points.

由於重組計劃是在季度中期實施的，我提到的節省只會部分惠及第四季度。因此，加上收入下降和不太有利的產品組合的影響，第四季度非美國通用會計準則毛利率預計為 33%，上下浮動 150 個基點。

At the midpoint of these outlook ranges, we expect Q4 operating expenses to be similar to Q3, mainly due to lower performance-based compensation and a lower headcount as a result of the restructuring we announced today, offset by the impact of 1 additional working week. Accordingly, non-GAAP earnings per fully diluted share for Q4 is expected to be $0.03, plus or minus $0.03. A reconciliation of our GAAP to non-GAAP Q4 outlook is available on the Investor Relations section of our website and in our press release issued today.

在這些展望範圍的中點，我們預計第四季度的運營支出將與第三季度相似，這主要是由於基於績效的薪酬較低以及我們今天宣布的重組導致員工人數減少，但被增加 1 個工作週的影響所抵消.因此，第四季度非美國通用會計準則每股完全攤薄收益預計為 0.03 美元，上下浮動 0.03 美元。我們網站的投資者關係部分和今天發布的新聞稿中提供了我們的 GAAP 與非 GAAP 第四季度展望的對賬。

With that, let's open the call for questions. Operator?

有了這個，讓我們打開問題的電話。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from the line of Brian Chin of Stifel.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 Stifel 的 Brian Chin。

Maybe just to start here. Can you just clarify, I guess, in terms of the revenue step-down from 3Q into 4Q, about $25 million-ish at the midpoint. How much, I guess, is DRAM, half of which is tied to the China restrictions? How much is RF? And then how much is Logic Foundry XRS?

也許只是從這裡開始。你能不能澄清一下，我想，就收入從第三季度到第四季度的下降而言，中點約為 2500 萬美元。我猜 DRAM 有多少，其中一半與中國的限制有關？射頻多少錢？那麼 Logic Foundry XRS 多少錢？

Yes. So Brian, this is Mike. Good question. As you said, $25 million reduction at the midpoint sequentially. I'll start with the biggest impact, which is the impact of the October 7 China regulations. This is between $10 million and $15 million sequentially. And to calibrate you to that, if you remember, we've talked about our China revenues being approximately 2/3 coming from multinationals, which all the multinationals have received licenses. So they're not part of the step-down in the quarter.

是的。布賴恩，這是邁克。好問題。正如您所說，中點依次減少 2500 萬美元。我將從最大的影響開始，這是 10 月 7 日中國法規的影響。這在 1000 萬美元到 1500 萬美元之間。如果你記得的話，為了讓你適應這一點，我們已經談到我們在中國的收入大約有 2/3 來自跨國公司，所有跨國公司都獲得了許可證。因此，他們不屬於本季度降級的一部分。

But 1/3, a significant chunk of what's been a $40 million to $50 million quarterly run rate comes from the domestic customers. And given our exposure at the leading edge in both Foundry and Logic and in DRAM. These regulations do have a significant impact. So about $10 million to $15 million in the quarter, call it, $50 million annualized associated with these.

但 1/3，即 4000 萬至 5000 萬美元的季度運行率中有很大一部分來自國內客戶。鑑於我們在 Foundry 和 Logic 以及 DRAM 領域處於領先地位。這些規定確實產生了重大影響。因此，本季度大約有 1000 萬到 1500 萬美元，稱之為與這些相關的年化 5000 萬美元。

Moving to the next biggest component is DRAM. We're projecting a little over a $10 million step down in DRAM demand sequentially. More than half of that is an overlap with the China regulations. We've talked about it in the past. I think we've done a good job supporting and gaining share inside the high-end China domestic DRAM market, but these regulations really kind of crimp that, at least in the short term.

轉向下一個最大的組件是 DRAM。我們預計 DRAM 需求將連續下降 1000 萬美元多一點。其中一半以上與中國法規重疊。我們過去談過。我認為我們在支持中國國內高端 DRAM 市場並贏得份額方面做得很好，但這些法規確實在一定程度上抑制了這一點，至少在短期內如此。

And then Foundry and Logic, a smaller impact. Most of the reduction in Foundry and Logic associated with RF, and surprisingly because of the softness in mobile. But again, some overlap with China as well, less so than in DRAM. So those are the 3 components and the rough magnitude of each. But as we look forward, we think that the restructuring plan we've put in place allows us to protect the profitability of the company while still investing in the long-term growth. These are obviously short-term headwinds, but we like the position we're in, in these markets and looking forward to demand returning to some robust levels as we get through the middle part of 2023.

然後是Foundry和Logic，影響較小。大多數與 RF 相關的 Foundry 和 Logic 的減少，令人驚訝的是因為移動的軟性。但同樣，有些也與中國重疊，但不如 DRAM 重疊。所以這些是 3 個組件和每個組件的粗略大小。但展望未來，我們認為我們已經實施的重組計劃可以讓我們在保護公司盈利能力的同時，繼續投資於長期增長。這些顯然是短期的逆風，但我們喜歡我們在這些市場中所處的位置，並期待在我們度過 2023 年中期時需求恢復到一些強勁的水平。

Okay. Got it. And further clarification. Within the $10 million to $15 million sequential that's tied to local China and excluding backing out the $5 million that might be tied to DRAM, so I guess that gives you a residual $5 million to $10 million. Did I hear correctly that you're seeking licenses to possibly ship to some of those entities? And that could provide some sort of upside maybe this quarter, maybe next or at some point moving forward?

好的。知道了。並進一步說明。在與中國本土相關的 1000 萬至 1500 萬美元序列中，不包括退出可能與 DRAM 相關的 500 萬美元，所以我想這會給你剩餘的 500 萬至 1000 萬美元。我沒聽錯嗎，您正在尋求可能向其中一些實體發貨的許可？這可能會在本季度、下個季度或未來的某個時候提供某種好處？

Yes. So the China DRAM impact is more than $5 million. It's more than half of the overall $10 million to $15 million China impact. But to the core of your question, both we and our customers are working at shipment releases, a variety of different license that could help us realize that revenue. I think as I said in the prepared remarks, we're taking a balanced view of this and making sure we're both compliant with these new regulations, but also doing the best we can to support our customers in the region. And it's a pretty actively evolving situation.

是的。因此，中國 DRAM 的影響超過 500 萬美元。它佔中國 1000 萬至 1500 萬美元總影響的一半以上。但對於你問題的核心，我們和我們的客戶都在處理髮貨發布，各種不同的許可證可以幫助我們實現收入。我認為正如我在準備好的發言中所說的那樣，我們正在對此持平衡的看法，並確保我們都遵守這些新規定，同時也盡我們所能為該地區的客戶提供支持。這是一個非常積極發展的情況。

With the regulation, something like 19 days old, we're working through this with both our trade compliance team, our China team and our customers to either obtain licenses or convince ourselves that the regulations do not apply to some of the shipments that we're trying to release.

根據法規，大約 19 天前，我們正在與我們的貿易合規團隊、我們的中國團隊和我們的客戶一起解決這個問題，以獲得許可證或說服我們自己這些法規不適用於我們的某些貨物正在嘗試釋放。

Got it. My next question, I guess, is do you have any indications that this revenue run rate kind of the mid-$150 million level that either in terms of discrete segments or in the aggregate, this represents some sort of a stabilization in terms of the revenue run rate? And also kind of conjoin with that, how low can you lower quarterly revenue breakeven, too?

知道了。我想我的下一個問題是，您是否有任何跡象表明這種收入運行率在 1.5 億美元左右，無論是在離散細分市場還是在總體上，這都代表了收入方面的某種穩定運行速度？與此相關的是，您還能將季度收入盈虧平衡點降低到多低？

I'll take the first part of the question, and then I'll let Shai talk about the cost structure and the run rate profitability. Obviously, there's a lot of headwinds right now in the fourth quarter. We're in the middle of a pretty substantial DRAM downturn, as you heard from all of our customers, but most recently, one of our major customers who was a 10% customer, on their earnings call last night. The world's largest foundries talked about an inventory correction in place. And then on top of that, we've got these new China restrictions. So there's a lot of headwinds right now. We are cautiously optimistic that some of these things are going to turn as we work our way into 2023 and through the middle part of 2023.

我將回答問題的第一部分，然後讓 Shai 談談成本結構和運行率盈利能力。顯然，第四季度現在有很多不利因素。正如您從我們所有客戶那裡聽到的那樣，我們正處於相當大的 DRAM 低迷之中，但最近，我們的一個主要客戶是 10% 的客戶，在昨晚的財報電話會議上。世界上最大的鑄造廠談到了庫存調整。然後最重要的是，我們有這些新的中國限制。所以現在有很多不利因素。我們謹慎樂觀地認為，隨著我們努力進入 2023 年和 2023 年中期，其中一些事情將會發生轉變。

Typically DRAM -- cyclical DRAM downturns and inventory corrections in the foundry space do take several quarters to work their way through, but we're now well into the second, maybe even the third quarter of those things. So I think we are optimistic that some of these things can turn a little bit in terms of market headwinds and at least become neutral, if not tailwinds.

通常是 DRAM——代工領域的周期性 DRAM 低迷和庫存調整確實需要幾個季度才能完成，但我們現在已經進入第二個季度，甚至可能是第三個季度。因此，我認為我們樂觀地認為，其中一些事情可能會在市場逆風方面有所轉變，即使不是順風，也至少會變得中性。

And when it comes to the breakeven question, Brian, after these cost reduction measures are fully implemented, we expect a breakeven point of revenue between $140 million and $145 million a quarter. That's the breakeven point.

當談到盈虧平衡問題時，布賴恩，在這些成本削減措施得到全面實施後，我們預計每季度的收入盈虧平衡點將在 1.4 億美元至 1.45 億美元之間。這就是盈虧平衡點。

That's helpful. And just Mike, to clarify something you just mentioned there. When you talk about that optimism sort of things turning middle part of '23. Are you kind of discretely factoring in things like moving from pilot to volume production for marquee products next year that use 3D packaging in terms of those devices? Is that sort of part of what you're saying there? Or is that sort of even incremental discretely in terms of what could get better next year?

這很有幫助。邁克，澄清一下你剛才提到的事情。當你談論那種樂觀情緒時，事情就變成了 23 年的中間部分。您是否在考慮明年使用 3D 封裝的大型產品從試點轉向批量生產等因素？那是你在那裡說的話的一部分嗎？或者，就明年可能會變得更好的方面而言，這種甚至是離散的增量？

Well, I think as we look at advanced packaging and the impact it can have on our business, there's definitely a positive impact there. In the prepared remarks, I highlighted that we've begun volume shipments for a major client-based chiplet processor. And that's a big step forward in the validation of the technology and the industry moving forward. I think timing is still pretty uncertain. We are assuming some of that is going to start to ramp in the middle part of '23. So that is definitely an element of our cautious optimism. But I think a lot of the other pieces as well, whether they're advanced packaging-related or a 3-nanometer ramp inside the foundry space, there's a few things that do offer some degree of hope as we work our way through mid-2023 into the back half of 2022.

好吧，我認為當我們審視先進封裝及其對我們業務的影響時，肯定會產生積極影響。在準備好的發言中，我強調說，我們已經開始為一個主要的基於客戶端的 chiplet 處理器批量發貨。這是技術驗證和行業向前邁進的一大步。我認為時機仍然不確定。我們假設其中一些將在 23 年中期開始增加。所以這絕對是我們謹慎樂觀的一個因素。但我認為還有很多其他的東西，無論它們是與先進封裝相關的還是代工空間內的 3 納米斜坡，在我們努力度過中期的過程中，有幾件事確實提供了一定程度的希望2023 年到 2022 年下半年。

Our next question comes from Charles Shi of Needham.

我們的下一個問題來自 Needham 的 Charles Shi。

Good afternoon, Mike, Shai. Certainly when I look at your restructuring plan, you are lowering head count by approximately 13%. Obviously, this is never easy and probably quite painful. But it sounds like you are expecting the current weakness to probably continue. Well, it's not going to be just a 1 quarter, 2 quarter thing, maybe a little bit more prolonged. Otherwise, I would imagine you wouldn't be taking decisive actions like this. I mean it's quite painful for sure. .

下午好，邁克，夏伊。當然，當我查看你們的重組計劃時，你們將裁員約 13%。顯然，這絕非易事，而且可能非常痛苦。但聽起來您似乎預計當前的疲軟可能會持續下去。好吧，這不會只是 1 個季度、2 個季度的事情，也許會更長一點。否則，我想你也不會如此果斷地採取行動。我的意思是這肯定很痛苦。 .

Mind if you give us some sense, I mean, compared to like, let's say, 1, 2 months ago, what exactly have deteriorated because I remember there was a quite some rapid and abrupt inventory correction actions in late June, early July. In August, maybe a little bit while slowing down in terms of the actions, but it seems to accelerate again in September into October. Can you kind of walk us through what exactly happened over the last 3 months to really lead you to take decisive actions like what we just announced today?

請介意您給我們一些感覺，我的意思是，與 1、2 個月前相比，究竟發生了什麼惡化，因為我記得 6 月下旬、7 月初有一些快速而突然的庫存修正行動。 8 月，可能在行動方面有所放緩，但在 9 月到 10 月似乎再次加速。您能否向我們介紹一下過去 3 個月究竟發生了什麼，從而真正引導您採取像我們今天剛剛宣布的那樣果斷的行動？

Charles, it's Mike. I think you touched on it in the first part of the question. It's really the duration that we're seeing that motivates us to protect the cost structure, the profitability of the company so that we're generating cash so that we're profitable as we work our way through. But certainly, based on all the available data we have, looks like a fairly sustained not a 1 to 2 quarter demand reduction.

查爾斯，是邁克。我想你在問題的第一部分提到了它。這真的是我們看到的持續時間促使我們保護成本結構，公司的盈利能力，以便我們產生現金，以便我們在工作過程中實現盈利。但可以肯定的是，根據我們擁有的所有可用數據，需求減少看起來相當持續，而不是 1 到 2 個季度。

I think in discussions with our customers, in looking at industry forecasts, in understanding the general macroeconomic conditions that are in place we felt like, and you're right, it is painful and a little bit frustrating, given how hard we've worked to increase capacity. But we felt like, based on all that available data, this was not going to be a 1 to 2 quarter downturn in reduction in demand, but 1 that extended into the middle part of 2023.

我認為在與我們的客戶討論時，在查看行業預測時，在了解我們所處的總體宏觀經濟狀況時，你是對的，考慮到我們的努力，這是痛苦的，有點令人沮喪以增加容量。但我們認為，根據所有可用數據，這不會是需求減少 1 到 2 個季度的低迷，而是 1 延續到 2023 年中期。

We're not calling an end to a downturn in the middle part of 2023. As you know, our visibility is pretty limited. But in answering Brian's question, I think I touched on some of the things that leave us cautiously optimistic as we work our way through 2023. But between now and then, we really felt motivated to protect the profitability of the company so that we can make the investments in R&D and long lead time capacity items like facilities, to make sure as we come out of this. And anybody who's been in the industry for a while knows we always come out of these cyclical downturns, better prepared to win and gain market share and grow the company.

我們並沒有在 2023 年中期宣布經濟低迷結束。如您所知，我們的能見度非常有限。但在回答布賴恩的問題時，我想我談到了一些讓我們在努力度過 2023 年時保持謹慎樂觀的事情。但從現在到那時，我們確實感到有動力保護公司的盈利能力，以便我們能夠對研發的投資和設施等長期交貨時間的能力項目，以確保我們從中脫穎而出。任何在這個行業工作過一段時間的人都知道我們總是能走出這些週期性的低迷期，為贏得市場份額和發展公司做好更充分的準備。

Maybe I want to -- next question, I want to double click some of the comments you've made, Foundry and Logic, Probe Card, if I hear it correctly, I think you are implying roughly $10 million-ish kind of reduction in the Foundry and Logic segment into next quarter. So a couple of more specific things. RF probe card, are we going to see some run rate factors like in the teens, like that's -- I remember that's the run rate when you first acquired Cascade Microtech, which is when you got the probe card business in 2016. That's number one.

也許我想——下一個問題，我想雙擊你發表的一些評論，Foundry and Logic，Probe Card，如果我沒聽錯的話，我認為你是在暗示大約 1000 萬美元的減少Foundry 和 Logic 部門進入下一季度。所以還有一些更具體的事情。 RF 探針卡，我們是否會看到一些像青少年那樣的運行率因素，比如 - 我記得這是你第一次收購 Cascade Microtech 時的運行率，那是你在 2016 年獲得探針卡業務時的運行率。這是第一.

Number two, definitely, you did signal that your #1 customer may -- your sales to that particular customer may come down slightly into Q4, maybe not at the same amount of decline as you had in Q3, but it does sound like maybe the mobile side, I mean the foundry, the pure-play foundry side seems to be holding up relatively okay. I just want to check with you when I try to think about the puts and takes of your Foundry and Logic, Probe Card business, is that what's going on into Q4?

第二，當然，你確實發出信號表明你的#1 客戶可能 - 你對那個特定客戶的銷售額可能會在第四季度略有下降，可能與第三季度的下降幅度不同，但聽起來確實可能是移動端，我的意思是代工廠，純粹的代工廠似乎還算不錯。當我嘗試考慮您的 Foundry 和 Logic、Probe Card 業務的投入和投入時，我只想與您核實一下，這就是第四季度的情況嗎？

Yes, I think that's a pretty good summary. Let me expand on it a little. The magnitude of the total reduction definitely dominated by a sequential reduction in RF probe cards. We are seeing quite a bit of weakness in the RF supply chain, whether it's filters, power amplifiers, all the different new RF front-end devices that drive RF probe card demand. So that's by far the biggest element of the sequential step down. We're not quite back to the levels, at the run rate levels when we acquired the business. But this is probably the weakest we've seen since we acquired the business, integrated it and have been growing it in the present quarter.

是的，我認為這是一個很好的總結。讓我稍微擴展一下。總減少量的絕對主導因素是 RF 探針卡的連續減少。我們在射頻供應鏈中看到了相當多的弱點，無論是濾波器、功率放大器，還是推動射頻探針卡需求的所有不同的新型射頻前端設備。所以這是迄今為止順序降壓的最大要素。我們還沒有完全回到收購業務時的運行率水平。但這可能是自我們收購該業務、整合它並在本季度一直在增長以來我們看到的最弱的一次。

Some other elements to look at, the core foundry space, a little bit of sequential weakness there, but I think of all the different big chunks of revenue inside that foundry and logic market, that one's holding up reasonably well. And then in the microprocessor space, we're seeing continued weakness in the client PC, client microprocessor space probably not too surprising given how those customers have talked about their end market associated with client. And given the volumes that client drives and, therefore, the number of probe cards required that's taking a nominal step down here as we go from Q3 to Q4.

其他一些要看的因素，核心代工空間，那裡有一點連續的疲軟，但我認為代工和邏輯市場內所有不同的大塊收入，都保持得相當好。然後在微處理器領域，我們看到客戶端 PC 持續疲軟，考慮到這些客戶如何談論與客戶端相關的終端市場，客戶端微處理器領域可能並不令人驚訝。考慮到客戶端驅動的數量以及因此所需的探針卡數量，從第三季度到第四季度，我們在這裡採取了名義上的步驟。

Our next question comes from Krish Sankar of Cowen.

我們的下一個問題來自 Cowen 的 Krish Sankar。

I had 2 of them and I have both of them upfront. Mike, the first one, and I'm kind of curious, you said there's some weakness because of -- besides China, some of your memory customers slowing down. And I thought most of the CapEx is scheduled for next year. Is this like probe card being a leading indicator?

我有 2 個，而且我已經預先準備好了。邁克，第一個，我有點好奇，你說有一些弱點是因為——除了中國，你的一些內存客戶正在放緩。而且我認為大部分資本支出都安排在明年。這就像探針卡是領先指標嗎？

Conversely, when I look at smartphones, you mentioned RF is slowing, but smartphones actually started slowing earlier this year. So I'm kind of curious, is this specific verticals of smartphones that you're seeing out of probe card slowdown. That's the first question. And then the second question is that probe card considered consumable and should be resilient in a cyclical downturn, but it looks like it's kind of following the same trend line as WFE or equipment CapEx. So I'm kind of curious how to like kind of think about proper as a consumables on a go-forward basis.

相反，當我看智能手機時，你提到 RF 正在放緩，但智能手機實際上在今年早些時候開始放緩。所以我有點好奇，你看到的智能手機的這個特定垂直領域是由於探針卡減速造成的嗎？這是第一個問題。然後第二個問題是，探針卡被認為是消耗品，在周期性低迷時期應該具有彈性，但它看起來有點像遵循與 WFE 或設備資本支出相同的趨勢線。所以我有點好奇如何在前進的基礎上考慮適當的消耗品。

Yes. Thanks, Krish. So let me start with the memory and RF piece. There's several elements to how -- primarily our DRAM customers are behaving. As we said, we do see some sequential strength in Flash, although off a lower market share position. In DRAM, what we see happening is customers essentially reducing the speed and the magnitude of their new device ramps. We haven't seen any device cancellations in the DRAM space nor have we in the foundry and logic space. But the number of probe cards required per design is coming down as those customers manage their new design ramps, their new design releases and make sure they're consuming their inventory. And I think that's probably that inventory consumption piece is probably one of the biggest dynamics we're seeing in DRAM.

是的。謝謝，克里什。因此，讓我從內存和 RF 部分開始。有幾個因素如何 - 主要是我們的 DRAM 客戶的行為。正如我們所說，儘管市場份額較低，但我們確實看到了閃存的一些連續優勢。在 DRAM 中，我們看到正在發生的事情是客戶從根本上降低了新設備的速度和量級。我們沒有看到 DRAM 空間中的任何設備取消，也沒有看到代工廠和邏輯空間中的任何設備取消。但隨著這些客戶管理他們的新設計坡道、新設計發布並確保他們消耗庫存，每個設計所需的探針卡數量正在下降。我認為這可能是庫存消耗部分可能是我們在 DRAM 中看到的最大動態之一。

Similar dynamics in RF. For sure, the handset softness in the end markets has been going on for a while. We started to see it in the RF business earlier in the year, but it's particularly acute here as customers replan their different wafer start plans to meet new device cycles maybe that happened in the early part of 2023. So again, looks primarily like the inventory digestion in that RF space. But again, similar to memory, we haven't seen any major device cancellations. Design activity stays pretty strong. It's just the magnitude of these ramps and the speed of these ramps is much slower than we've seen in the past. Sorry, the second question, can you remind me?

射頻中的類似動態。可以肯定的是，終端市場的手機疲軟已經持續了一段時間。今年早些時候，我們開始在 RF 業務中看到它，但它在這裡尤為嚴重，因為客戶重新計劃他們不同的晶圓啟動計劃以滿足新的設備週期，這可能發生在 2023 年初。因此，看起來主要是庫存在那個射頻空間中消化。但同樣，與內存類似，我們還沒有看到任何重大設備取消。設計活動保持強勁。只是這些斜坡的幅度和這些斜坡的速度比我們過去看到的要慢得多。抱歉，第二個問題，你能提醒我一下嗎？

Mike, it is about probe card consumable...

邁克，是關於探針卡耗材的……

Yes, cyclicality and -- yes. So a great question. Certainly, one of the interesting things we've seen in both the third quarter and the fourth quarter, is some very rapid changes from our customers on their design release road maps. As we talked about on the last earnings call, we had several customers react very quickly and decisively the softness in their end markets. We see the same thing happening here. And even though probe cards are consumables and we're doing things like shipping the first volume probe cards for pilot production for a chiplet-based microprocessor driving advanced packaging forward. The magnitude number of probe cards required for design is definitely less than it has been in previous up cycles. And so yes, it's still a consumable. The fact that we're operating on shorter lead times and our customers are responding pretty quickly to their end market conditions, I think, is why you're seeing us have 2 quarters here of sequentially pretty significant sequential declines in probe cards.

是的，週期性和 - 是的。這是一個很好的問題。當然，我們在第三季度和第四季度看到的一件有趣的事情是，我們的客戶在他們的設計發布路線圖上發生了一些非常迅速的變化。正如我們在上次財報電話會議上談到的那樣，我們有幾個客戶對他們終端市場的疲軟做出了非常迅速和果斷的反應。我們在這裡看到同樣的事情發生。儘管探針卡是消耗品，但我們正在做一些事情，比如運送第一批探針卡用於基於小芯片的微處理器的試生產，推動先進封裝向前發展。設計所需的探針卡數量絕對少於之前的上升週期。所以是的，它仍然是一種消耗品。事實上，我們的交貨時間更短，而且我們的客戶對他們的終端市場狀況反應非常迅速，我認為，這就是為什麼你看到我們在這裡有兩個季度連續相當顯著的探針卡連續下降。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from the line of Craig Ellis of B. Riley.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 B. Riley 的 Craig Ellis。

Mike, I wanted just to start by going back to the breakdown that you've given us in terms of the 3 things that are impacting revenues you should look into the fourth quarter. And the question really is helping us understand the degree to which some of these things, I think it's more foundry logic and some of DRAM that's more cyclical and just due to the sudden decrease in demand that we're seeing in some application areas and customer adjustments versus some things that might be more structural, such as the inability to ship to China.

邁克，我想首先回到你給我們的關於影響收入的三件事的細分，你應該在第四季度研究。這個問題真的是幫助我們理解其中一些事情的程度，我認為這是更多的代工邏輯和一些更具週期性的 DRAM，只是由於我們在某些應用領域和客戶中看到的需求突然下降調整與一些可能更具結構性的事情相比，例如無法運往中國。

And I think you indicated that the BIS cash flow at a midpoint, about $12.5 million. So is it reasonable to think that the more long-term impact more structural impacted a $25 million decline is the BIS piece and that we would just need to find in other parts of the business to offset that? Or for whatever reason, would you see that coming back at some point?

我認為你表示 BIS 的現金流處於中點，約為 1250 萬美元。那麼，是否有理由認為 BIS 部分對 2500 萬美元下降的長期影響和結構性影響更大，而我們只需要在業務的其他部分找到抵消這一影響？或者出於任何原因，你會看到它在某個時候回來嗎？

Yes. I think it's an interesting question. And as you might imagine, Craig, a current topic of hot debate here at FormFactor. I think the -- we're very, very focused right now on making sure we do whatever we can to support our customers. They've -- they're obviously depending on us to ramp their technologies, but we also have this compliance overlay, which is limiting our ability to do that. I think in the very short term, we're focused on resolving that.

是的。我認為這是一個有趣的問題。正如您想像的那樣，Craig，FormFactor 上當前的熱門話題。我認為 - 我們現在非常非常專注於確保我們盡我們所能來支持我們的客戶。他們 - 他們顯然依賴我們來提升他們的技術，但我們也有這種合規覆蓋，這限制了我們這樣做的能力。我認為在短期內，我們會專注於解決這個問題。

If we're able to do that, at least in the short term, we may see some upside associated with that either as we move through the back part of the year or into 2023. But I think -- and this -- there are people who study this all the time, so I may not be the best one to opine on it. But I think the direction associated with being a U.S. supplier to the China domestic semiconductor industry certainly is not a tailwind. You've heard some of the WFE suppliers talk about it, providing a haircut to their businesses next year, at least where they have high exposure. I think probably the middle case is this is definitely going to be a headwind, sort of around the magnitude that we talked about, the $12.5 million a quarter, $50 million annualized, where we're going to have to go find other places to grow the business.

如果我們能夠做到這一點，至少在短期內，我們可能會在今年下半年或進入 2023 年時看到與此相關的一些好處。但我認為 - 而且這個 - 有一直在研究這個的人，所以我可能不是對此發表意見的最佳人選。但我認為與成為中國國內半導體行業的美國供應商相關的方向肯定不是順風。您已經聽過一些 WFE 供應商談論它，明年將削減他們的業務，至少在他們的高風險領域。我認為中間情況可能是這肯定會成為逆風，大約是我們談到的規模，每季度 1250 萬美元，年化 5000 萬美元，我們將不得不去尋找其他增長點這生意。

I think one of the highlights we haven't talked about it much on Q&A, where we have seen some nice growth is in the Systems segment, a record quarter even with some of the China headwinds in the Systems business, which are less onerous because of the details of where we ship from and those products. We expect similarly strong Q4. And with things like silicon photonics and quantum computing, that may be one area where we can grow the business. I wouldn't want to create the expectation that it makes up for a $50 million delta in 2023, but there are some growth prospects inside there as well as in the broader Foundry and Logic and DRAM probe card space.

我認為我們在問答環節中沒有太多討論的亮點之一是系統部門，我們看到了一些不錯的增長，即使在系統業務的中國逆風中也創下了創紀錄的季度，這不那麼繁重，因為我們從哪裡發貨以及那些產品的詳細信息。我們預計第四季度同樣強勁。對於矽光子學和量子計算等領域，這可能是我們可以發展業務的領域之一。我不想創造它在 2023 年彌補 5000 萬美元增量的期望，但其中以及更廣泛的 Foundry 和 Logic 以及 DRAM 探針卡空間都有一些增長前景。

Got it. The second question is really 1 more for Shai. Shai, with regard to the cost savings program that the company has implemented. At the midpoint, I think that's $27.5 million. Can you talk about the timing with which that will be realized both on the COGS portion and the OpEx portion since you may be at a different cadence on those 2?

知道了。第二題真的是Shai多了1個。 Shai，關於公司實施的成本節約計劃。在中點，我認為這是 2750 萬美元。您能否談談在 COGS 部分和 OpEx 部分實現這一目標的時間安排，因為您在這兩個方面的節奏可能不同？

Yes, the timing is actually the same. We expect to fully implement these cost savings by the end of 2022. So if we think about Q1 2023, that should reflect all the savings for both OpEx and cost of sales.

是的，時間實際上是一樣的。我們預計到 2022 年底將完全實施這些成本節約。因此，如果我們考慮 2023 年第一季度，那應該反映出運營支出和銷售成本的所有節約。

Yes. And I think you said that there are some things that are going to benefit the fourth quarter's numbers and OpEx and cost of sales. So what was -- for whatever is executed through the fourth quarter, what's the incremental benefit you'd expect to COGS and to OpEx for the first calendar quarter?

是的。我想你說過有些事情將有利於第四季度的數字、運營支出和銷售成本。那麼 - 對於第四季度執行的任何內容，您期望第一季度的 COGS 和 OpEx 的增量收益是多少？

Well, we announced it today and which means we still have 1/3 of regular run rate expenses in Q4 and then only 2/3 of the quarter will reflect savings. And now so I think that's a good approximate. Although we have some moving parts here, right? If you go into 2023, you have the annual benefit reset that's going to increase OpEx a little bit in the beginning of the year. But the run rate, if I think about OpEx run rate for Q4, which is about $49 million at the midpoint of the range we provided today, I think we can assume a similar number next year after we have more savings, but we have the benefits we set.

好吧，我們今天宣布了它，這意味著我們在第四季度仍有 1/3 的常規運行費用，然後只有 2/3 的季度將反映節省。現在我認為這是一個很好的近似值。雖然我們這裡有一些活動部件，對吧？如果進入 2023 年，您將重置年度收益，這將在年初略微增加 OpEx。但是運行率，如果我考慮第四季度的 OpEx 運行率，在我們今天提供的範圍的中點約為 4900 萬美元，我認為我們可以在明年節省更多資金後假設類似的數字，但我們有我們設定的好處。

Got it. Okay. And then lastly, and this is on the COGS side. I think you mentioned that there was an inventory reserve that was included in, I believe, the third quarter. Can you just quantify that? And are there any such reserves included in the fourth quarter's 33% COGS?

知道了。好的。最後，這是在 COGS 方面。我想你提到過，我相信第三季度中包含了庫存儲備。你能量化一下嗎？第四季度 33% 的銷貨成本中是否包含此類儲備？

Yes. We had a couple of inventory reserve in Q3, just to be clear. About $6 million was GAAP only. That relates to the restructuring we did last year. And just the last piece of that we recorded in Q3. The other inventory reserve we recorded in Q3 was kind of the normal E&O reserve after running our usual excess and obsolete inventory model. That was about $3 million in Q3.

是的。需要明確的是，我們在第三季度有一些庫存儲備。大約 600 萬美元僅按 GAAP 計算。這與我們去年進行的重組有關。這只是我們在第三季度記錄的最後一部分。在運行我們通常的過剩和過時庫存模型後，我們在第三季度記錄的其他庫存儲備是一種正常的 E&O 儲備。第三季度約為 300 萬美元。

Okay. Got it. Okay. And then lastly, Mike, can you just provide a little bit more granularity in terms of how you're thinking about capacity expansion intensity through the fourth quarter? My sense is we were moving at a pretty rapid clip in the first quarter and into the second quarter. And we we're progressing at perhaps slower pace. But given where revenues are, I'm a little bit surprised if we're continuing to expand unless there are things that are just very long lead time since it would seem like given that if you have time to pick up pace again in 1Q or 2Q.

好的。知道了。好的。最後，邁克，你能否更詳細地說明你如何看待第四季度的產能擴張強度？我的感覺是，我們在第一季度和第二季度的發展速度非常快。而且我們的進展速度可能較慢。但考慮到收入所在，如果我們繼續擴張，我會感到有點驚訝，除非有些東西的交貨時間很長，因為如果你有時間在第一季度或2Q。

Yes. And that's exactly it, Craig. It's the long lead time items. Obviously, in reducing headcount and capacity through labor, we've taken down the effective short-term capacity of the company pretty significantly so that we can get the cost structure more in line with the revenue. But we've got some things associated with, especially, facilities that are multiyear projects to really get the kind of facilities that we need to manage our business as it grows back towards the $850 million model and beyond, where we want to make sure that we have the footprint facilities ready to go. We probably don't fill them with tools, but we think those are good investments because, again, as I said in the prepared remarks, the strategic tenets behind this business remain firmly in place.

是的。就是這樣，克雷格。這是交貨期長的項目。顯然，通過勞動力減少員工人數和產能，我們已經大大降低了公司的有效短期產能，這樣我們就可以使成本結構更符合收入。但我們有一些相關的東西，尤其是多年期項目的設施，以真正獲得我們管理業務所需的那種設施，因為它會重新增長到 8.5 億美元及以後的模式，我們希望確保我們已經準備好了足跡設施。我們可能不會用工具來填充它們，但我們認為這些是很好的投資，因為正如我在準備好的發言中所說的那樣，這項業務背後的戰略原則仍然堅定不移。

So it's purely an issue of timing, where we're feeling the need to continue to invest in the longer-term future with some very long lead time items like facilities that are ready to produce probe cards.

所以這純粹是一個時間問題，我們覺得有必要繼續投資於一些非常長的交貨期項目，比如準備生產探針卡的設施。

Our next question comes from David Duley of Steelhead.

我們的下一個問題來自 Steelhead 的 David Duley。

I was wondering if you could just help me understand, I think you've guided gross margins down from about 47% in Q2 to 33% in the current quarter. Could you just talk about -- which is like roughly 1,400 or 1,500 basis points, could you just talk about what the biggest magnitude of that reduction is What are the 3 or 4 biggest pieces? And then I have a follow-up on the gross margin after you answer.

我想知道您是否可以幫助我理解，我認為您已將毛利率從第二季度的約 47% 降至本季度的 33%。你能不能談談 - 這大約是 1,400 或 1,500 個基點，你能談談減少的最大幅度是多少？最大的 3 或 4 個部分是什麼？然後我在你回答後對毛利率進行跟進。

Sure. So just to make sure we are talking about the same number. So Q2 of 2022 was 47.4%. We guided down to 39% in Q3 and we hit 39%, and we're talking about 33% in Q4. And 2 main factors impacting that. One is the overall revenue going down. We have fixed costs that are -- need to be observed and when revenue go down from a level of $204 million in Q2 to $155 million at the midpoint of the range for Q4, you can understand that this is a negative impact on the gross margin.

當然。所以只是為了確保我們談論的是同一個數字。所以 2022 年第二季度是 47.4%。我們在第三季度指導下調至 39%，我們達到了 39%，而我們在第四季度談論的是 33%。以及影響它的兩個主要因素。一是整體收入下降。我們有固定成本——需要觀察，當收入從第二季度的 2.04 億美元水平下降到第四季度範圍中點的 1.55 億美元時，你可以理解這對毛利率產生了負面影響.

But even more specifically, where we saw the increase was mostly in Foundry and Logic. Foundry and Logic as a market has the highest probe cards gross margin in the markets that we serve. And with most of the decline coming from Foundry and Logic and then in Q4, within Foundry and Logic in the RF, which is even the highest within the Foundry and Logic, that has, again, a negative impact on the gross margin. So these are the 2 main factors impacting the decline in the gross margin.

但更具體地說，我們看到增長主要集中在 Foundry 和 Logic。 Foundry 和 Logic 作為一個市場在我們服務的市場中擁有最高的探針卡毛利率。由於大部分下降來自 Foundry 和 Logic，然後在第四季度，在 RF 的 Foundry 和 Logic 中，這甚至是 Foundry 和 Logic 中最高的，這再次對毛利率產生了負面影響。因此，這是影響毛利率下降的2個主要因素。

Okay. And what would you expect gross margins to do if revenue were to stay flat, let's say, in Q1 and Q2? How much gross margin recovery would you expect? I guess assume the same product mix because we can assume revenues flat but just kind of assume the same kind of breakout that you have now, what can we expect for a trajectory of recovery of gross margins? Or is it all tied to revenue?

好的。如果第一季度和第二季度的收入保持平穩，您預計毛利率會怎樣？您期望毛利率恢復多少？我想假設相同的產品組合，因為我們可以假設收入持平，但只是假設你現在有同樣的突破，我們對毛利率恢復的軌蹟有何期待？還是全部與收入掛鉤？

So I think in the midterm, so I think we talked about Q4, and we're implementing the restructuring plan in Q4. Once it's fully implemented, at revenue levels similar to Q3 and the similar product mix, as you said, to Q3, I expect gross margin to be at the low 40s going forward. Longer term, we still expect to reach gross margin of 47% at our target model revenues of $850 million. Again, with the higher fixed costs we currently have because we put some capacity in place, mainly facilities and tools, we need to get back to the above $200 million, $210 million of quarterly revenue. And we need that growth to come from our higher-margin foundry and logic market to achieve this target model.

所以我認為在中期，所以我認為我們談到了第四季度，我們正在實施第四季度的重組計劃。一旦完全實施，在與第三季度相似的收入水平和與第三季度相似的產品組合下，正如您所說，到第三季度，我預計未來毛利率將處於 40 多歲的低水平。從長遠來看，我們仍然希望在 8.5 億美元的目標模型收入下達到 47% 的毛利率。同樣，由於我們目前的固定成本較高，因為我們投入了一些能力，主要是設施和工具，我們需要回到 2 億美元以上，即 2.1 億美元的季度收入。我們需要這種增長來自利潤率更高的代工和邏輯市場，以實現這一目標模式。

So if -- just to ask it another way, if you get back to $210 million in quarterly revenue, will your gross margins be back at the 47% to 48% range? Or because of the incremental capacity that you added, will you need more than $210 million to get to 47% or 48% with a similar mix quarter mortgage.

因此，如果 - 換個方式問，如果你的季度收入回到 2.1 億美元，你的毛利率會回到 47% 到 48% 的範圍嗎？或者由於您增加的增量容量，您是否需要超過 2.1 億美元才能通過類似的混合季度抵押貸款達到 47% 或 48%。

(technical difficulty)

（技術難度）

And then help me understand, I guess this is a similar question on the gross margin. But if you just -- you've added capacity recently and your revenues kind of declined. So currently, what do you think your overall utilization rate is? And maybe help us understand after you cut costs, what your quarterly revenue capability is. That's it for me.

然後幫助我理解，我想這是一個關於毛利率的類似問題。但是，如果你只是 - 你最近增加了容量並且你的收入有所下降。那麼目前，您認為您的整體利用率是多少？也許可以幫助我們了解在您削減成本後，您的季度收入能力是多少。對我來說就是這樣。

Yes. So think about the 3 components of capacity. Facilities is one of them, and it's the less flexible, but the longer time to add. You have tools that also has long lead time, but we've been adding them in a good rate recently. Not everything is fully functional and operating, but we have been adding capacity. And labor is the third piece, which is the most flexible, and this is when we reduced the capacity in this restructuring. This restructuring should -- we should -- we have the facilities in place. We have the tools in place, and we have enough labor to get to Q3 levels and probably more than that.

是的。因此，請考慮容量的 3 個組成部分。設施是其中之一，它的靈活性較低，但添加時間較長。你的工具也有很長的交付週期，但我們最近一直在以很好的速度添加它們。並不是所有的東西都可以正常運行，但我們一直在增加容量。而勞動力是第三塊，它是最靈活的，這就是我們在這次重組中減少產能的時候。這種重組應該 - 我們應該 - 我們擁有適當的設施。我們擁有適當的工具，我們有足夠的勞動力來達到第三季度的水平，甚至可能更多。

And we have the ability to add labor back if we need to on a relatively fast pace because we usually use temp employees in the beginning. Yes, there is some training time, so it's not immediate. But we have the ability to add back employees when we need to, when the demand comes in. So we have the facilities. We have the tools, labor. I would say, Q3 levels is sufficient to what we have after the restructuring, and going back, we'll add as the demand comes in.

如果我們需要以相對較快的速度增加勞動力，我們有能力增加勞動力，因為我們一開始通常使用臨時工。是的，有一些培訓時間，所以不是立即的。但是當需求出現時，我們有能力在需要時增加員工。所以我們有設施。我們有工具，勞動力。我會說，第三季度的水平足以滿足我們重組後的水平，並且回過頭來，我們會隨著需求的到來而增加。

Our next question comes from Hans Chung of D.A. Davidson.

我們的下一個問題來自 D.A. 的 Hans Chung。戴維森。

I have a couple. So first, so as your business is sort of design-driven and then also on the other hand, also sort of impacted by the unit as the number of the forecast demand per design could be impacted by the customer plan. So can you help me understand like as we look out into 2023, and I think last week, I didn't see also talk about the new design tape out for 3-nanometer is more than double than 5-nanometer in the first couple of years. And things like design momentum is still very robust, right, at least on foundry side.

我有一對。因此，首先，由於您的業務有點受設計驅動，另一方面，也受到單位的影響，因為每個設計的預測需求數量可能會受到客戶計劃的影響。所以你能幫我理解一下嗎，就像我們展望 2023 年一樣，我想上週，我也沒有看到關於 3 納米的新設計流片在前幾秒是 5 納米的兩倍多年。設計勢頭之類的東西仍然非常強勁，對，至少在代工方面是這樣。

And then we also have the new platform from a logic customer. And then -- so -- but on the other hand, you also mentioned the number of probe cards required for design go down. So can you help me understand like how should I think about the '23 -- the outlook, I mean, relative to maybe the semiconductor industry performance? Let's say, if the semi down something single-digit percent. And then how should we think about our growth for next year.

然後我們還有來自邏輯客戶的新平台。然後 - 所以 - 但另一方面，你也提到設計所需的探針卡數量下降。那麼你能幫我理解我應該如何看待 23 年——我的意思是，相對於半導體行業表現的前景？比方說，如果半月下跌個位數百分比。然後我們應該如何考慮明年的增長。

Yes. Hans, this is Mike. You think you've parsed it accurately, right? There's 2 components to this business. One is the new design activity. So this is customers releasing a new mass set of new chip. And as I said, that activity remains very robust. Our design team's fully loaded. We haven't seen any cancellations of any significant designs. But the thing that drives revenue is the number of probe cards you ship for each of those designs. Often, this can number in the hundreds of probe cards. And given end markets for our customers, those volumes are down, again, especially in consumer-driven segments like client PC and mobile. If I return to the broader question on 2023, current industry forecasts have advanced probe cards growing somewhere between 1% and 2%.

是的。漢斯，這是邁克。你認為你已經準確地解析了它，對吧？這項業務有兩個組成部分。一是新的設計活動。所以這是客戶發布了新的大量新芯片。正如我所說，該活動仍然非常活躍。我們的設計團隊滿載而歸。我們還沒有看到任何重要設計被取消。但推動收入增長的是您為每種設計出貨的探針卡數量。通常，這可能有數百個探針卡。考慮到我們客戶的終端市場，這些數量再次下降，尤其是在客戶端 PC 和移動設備等消費者驅動的領域。如果我回到 2023 年這個更廣泛的問題，目前的行業預測表明高級探針卡的增長率在 1% 到 2% 之間。

There is an expectation going back to Krish's statement that we are going to see some stabilization here in customers investing in new designs. That will help that market be a little bit more robust than it has here in the second half.

人們期望回到 Krish 的聲明，即我們將在這裡看到客戶投資於新設計的情況有所穩定。這將有助於該市場比下半年更加強勁。

Got it. Okay. And then, so the next question is about your Logic customer with Intel. And then let's say if the customer outsource more the [talent] to the foundry like TSMC, and -- is there any implication on either positively or negatively incremental revenue opportunity given you have different market share to customers, right? And so I guess it's probably related to whether Intel's -- their strategy in terms of the wafer testing, whether they will outsource that as well. So I just want to hear your thoughts.

知道了。好的。然後，下一個問題是關於您在英特爾的邏輯客戶。然後假設客戶將更多 [人才] 外包給像台積電這樣的代工廠，並且 - 鑑於您與客戶的市場份額不同，是否會對積極或消極的增量收入機會產生任何影響，對嗎？所以我想這可能與英特爾的 - 他們在晶圓測試方面的戰略有關，他們是否也會將其外包。所以我只想听聽你的想法。

Yes. And it's always an interesting question for this business, where our customers -- if they're producing wafers at the foundry, whether they're also doing test at the foundry. And that depends for -- different customers have different strategies. Both major microprocessor customers actually own their own test processor. So they purchase wafers from the foundry and then manage either internally inside their facilities or contracting out to the OSAT like an ASC, still an Amkor to do the test, but they own their own test processor.

是的。對於這項業務來說，這始終是一個有趣的問題，我們的客戶——如果他們在代工廠生產晶圓，他們是否也在代工廠進行測試。這取決於——不同的客戶有不同的策略。兩個主要的微處理器客戶實際上都擁有自己的測試處理器。因此，他們從代工廠購買晶圓，然後在他們的設施內部進行管理，或者像 ASC 一樣外包給 OSAT，仍然是 Amkor 來進行測試，但他們擁有自己的測試處理器。

So I think in the microprocessor space, the shift between foundry front end and IDM front end, we don't feel like there's a really big swing there for us. Having said that, clearly, we want to be in a position where we're qualified and competing for business and supporting all of the major customers in the industry, irrespective of their test model.

所以我認為在微處理器領域，鑄造前端和 IDM 前端之間的轉變，我們並不覺得那裡有很大的波動。話雖如此，很明顯，我們希望處於一個有資格競爭業務並支持行業所有主要客戶的位置，無論他們的測試模型如何。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from the line of David Silver of CL King.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 CL King 的 David Silver。

I apologize if I make you repeat yourself here, gentlemen, I did have to step away for just a minute or 2. Regarding the cost actions that you're taking here. I'm just wondering if you provide any detail on kind of maybe the geographic spread of them. In other words, I'm just wondering how much might be in North America versus in particular, Asia, as you align the cost actions with the anticipated softer revenues.

先生們，如果我讓你們在這裡重複一遍，我深表歉意，我確實不得不離開一兩分鐘。關於你們在這裡採取的成本行動。我只是想知道您是否提供了有關它們的地理分佈的任何詳細信息。換句話說，我只是想知道在您將成本行動與預期的疲軟收入保持一致時，北美與亞洲的差距有多大。

Yes. Most of the labor that we reduced was in North America, in our factories in California and Oregon. And some was in Asia, more on the SG&A side, but the vast majority is in North America.

是的。我們減少的大部分勞動力都在北美，在我們位於加利福尼亞和俄勒岡的工廠。有些在亞洲，更多是在 SG&A 方面，但絕大多數在北美。

Very good. And then my next question would just be maybe your -- if you could share kind of the thinking of some of your major customers, but there is the wave of very large multibillion-dollar new fab investments that are due to come on mainly in the U.S. beginning maybe late 2023 or so. So maybe just beginning maybe a year or slightly more from now. As you think about their kind of anticipated time lines or road maps, from your perspective, are there going to be any major changes? In other words, is the demand declines that we're experiencing right now, does that change your major customers thinking about completing those major investments on the original time tables.

很好。然後我的下一個問題可能只是你的 - 如果你可以分享一些主要客戶的想法，但是數十億美元的新晶圓廠投資浪潮將主要出現在美國可能會在 2023 年底左右開始。所以也許從現在開始可能一年或更久。當您考慮他們的預期時間表或路線圖時，從您的角度來看，是否會有任何重大變化？換句話說，我們現在正在經歷的需求下降是否會改變您的主要客戶對在原始時間表上完成這些重大投資的想法。

I think there's always a question in this industry of when you bring capacity online. I think our customers are facing the same set of decisions we are in the very long lead time items, things like facilities, clean rooms, in some cases, enabling tool sets for our customers, things like lithography, our multiyear have multiyear lead times.

我認為這個行業總是存在一個問題，即何時將容量上線。我認為我們的客戶面臨著與我們在非常長的交付週期項目中所面臨的相同的一組決策，比如設施、潔淨室，在某些情況下，為我們的客戶啟用工具集，比如光刻，我們的多年交付時間。

And so I think there's a collective belief among the supply chain and the customer base that this is a cyclical downturn in the industry. Clearly, there's some other factors associated with it, whether they be U.S.-China trade restrictions or the potential for a recession in 2023. But fundamentally, if you look at the long-term content growth and growth of the industry, we're all in the same position where we're confident in that growth, the things that underpin it like advanced packaging. And then we all want to be sure we have the fundamental capacity footprint in place to capitalize on the demand when it comes.

因此，我認為供應鍊和客戶群普遍認為這是行業的周期性低迷。顯然，還有其他一些相關因素，無論是美中貿易限制還是 2023 年經濟衰退的可能性。但從根本上說，如果你看一下該行業的長期內容增長和增長，我們都在我們對這種增長充滿信心的同一位置，支撐它的東西就像先進的包裝一樣。然後我們都希望確保我們擁有適當的基本容量足跡，以便在需求出現時利用它。

At this time, I'd like to turn the call back over to Mike Slessor for closing remarks. Sir?

此時，我想將電話轉回給 Mike Slessor 以作結束語。先生？

Yes. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. We'll talk to you again either in January or I think we're doing a couple of conferences as we end the year, if we see you there, have a great end of the year. Otherwise, we'll see you in January. Take care.

是的。謝謝大家今天加入我們。我們將在 1 月再次與您交談，或者我想我們在年底時會舉行幾次會議，如果我們在那裡見到您，祝您今年年底愉快。否則，我們一月份見。小心。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連接。