Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (ERIC) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the presentation of Ericsson's first quarter 2026 results. Joining us by video today is Borje Ekholm, our President and CEO and in the studio, I'm joined by Lars Sandstrom, our Chief Financial Officer.

各位好，歡迎參加愛立信 2026 年第一季業績簡報。今天透過視訊與會的是我們的總裁暨執行長 Borje Ekholm；在攝影棚現場，與我一同出席的是我們的財務長 Lars Sandstrom。

As usual, we'll have a short presentation followed by Q&A. (Event Instructions) Details can be found in today's earnings release and on the investor relations website as well. Please be advised that today's call is being recorded, and today's presentation may include forward-looking statements.

如同往常，我們將先進行簡短簡報，接著進入問答環節。(活動說明) 相關細節亦可在今日的財報新聞稿以及投資人關係網站上查閱。提醒各位，今天的電話會議將被錄音，且今日簡報可能包含前瞻性陳述。

These statements are based on our current expectations and certain planning assumptions, which are subject to risks and uncertainties.

這些陳述係基於我們目前的預期以及若干規劃假設，而這些假設可能受到風險與不確定性影響。

Actual results may differ materially due to factors mentioned in today's press release and discussed in the conference call. We encourage you to read about these risks and uncertainties in our earnings report as well as in our annual report.

實際結果可能因今日新聞稿所提及、以及在電話會議中討論的因素而出現重大差異。我們建議各位在我們的財報以及年度報告中閱讀相關風險與不確定性說明。

I'll now hand the call over to Borje and Lars for their introductory comments.

接下來我把電話交給 Borje 與 Lars，請他們先做開場說明。

Thanks, Daniel, and good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us today. Q1 was a solid start of the year and with the results that reflects our continued execution against our operational and strategic priorities.

謝謝 Daniel，各位早安，也感謝大家今天加入我們。第一季是今年穩健的開局，成果反映我們持續落實營運與策略優先事項的執行力。

We saw a very large currency headwind during the quarter, probably one of the toughest quarters from a comp ratio as the Swedish krona strengthened towards almost all currencies compared to last year. So this, of course, materially impacted every line of our financial statements with reporting sales falling 10%.

本季我們面臨非常大的匯率逆風，可能是就可比基期而言最艱難的季度之一，因為瑞典克朗相較去年對幾乎所有貨幣都走強。因此，這當然對我們財務報表的每一個項目都造成重大影響，使得以報導口徑計算的銷售額下滑 10%。

At the same time, we performed well operationally realizing strong organic growth of 6%, with all segments contributing. Our results are a testament to our leading portfolio and the investments we've been making in furthering our technology leadership.

同時，我們在營運面表現良好，實現 6% 的強勁有機成長，且各事業部門皆有貢獻。我們的成果證明了我們領先的產品組合，以及我們持續投資以強化技術領導地位的成效。

Over the last few years, we've actively managed to reduce dependence on geographic mix. Of course, we realize that North America often receive a disproportionate interest from, I guess, the community analyst community, but also around the world.

過去幾年，我們積極管理並降低對地理組合的依賴。當然，我們也理解北美往往會受到分析師社群特別高度的關注，全球亦然。

And that's, of course, natural because it is a front-runner market. And this quarter, we saw sales reduced by mid-single digits in North America.

這當然很自然，因為它是領先市場。而在本季，我們看到北美銷售額下降了中個位數百分比。

But we could still deliver a gross margin of 48.1% for the group and 50.4% for segment networks, indicating that the work we've done to balance out the geographic mix is coming through in the results and giving us less sensitivity to geographic mix.

但我們仍能交出集團 48.1% 的毛利率，以及網路事業部門 50.4% 的毛利率，顯示我們為平衡地理組合所做的工作已反映在成果上，讓我們對地理組合的敏感度降低。

Cloud software services continue to execute well. We reached a gross margin of 43.2%. That's up more than 300 basis points year-over-year. Revenue seasonality was in line with the guidance we had for the quarter. and we saw some deals being pushed into Q2.

雲端軟體與服務持續執行良好。我們的毛利率達到 43.2%。較去年同期提升超過 300 個基點。營收季節性符合我們對本季的指引，且我們看到部分交易延後至第二季。

And we expect to see that, therefore, stronger seasonality than normal next quarter. EBITDA came in at SEK5.6 billion with a margin of 11.3%, and the strengthening of the Swedish krona affected EBITDA by SEK2.2 billion.

因此，我們預期下季的季節性將比正常情況更強。EBITDA 為 56 億瑞典克朗，利潤率 11.3%，而瑞典克朗走強使 EBITDA 受到 22 億瑞典克朗的影響。

And you've also seen we have the revaluation of the long-term stock-based programs. And all of those are, of course, included in the results. Cash flow during the first quarter is seasonably lower typically.

各位也看到我們對長期股票型獎酬計畫進行了重估。而這些當然都已納入本次結果。第一季的現金流通常因季節性因素而較低。

Despite this, cash flow came in at a healthy SEK5.9 billion with a net cash position of SEK68.1 billion. And as you've seen just a couple of weeks ago, the AGM approved the Board's proposal on increased dividend and our first share buyback program.

儘管如此，現金流仍達到健康的 59 億瑞典克朗，淨現金部位為 681 億瑞典克朗。此外，各位在幾週前也看到，股東常會（AGM）已核准董事會提出的提高股利以及我們首個庫藏股回購計畫。

We will start to execute on the share buyback program next week with a target to buy back SEK15 billion. In the next phase of AI, we see that high-performance mobile connectivity will become increasingly important. Even so, our planning assumptions for the RAN market remains flat over the longer term.

我們將於下週開始執行庫藏股回購計畫，目標回購金額為 150 億瑞典克朗。在 AI 的下一階段，我們認為高效能行動連線將變得愈來愈重要。即便如此，我們對 RAN 市場的規劃假設在較長期仍維持持平。

With disciplined execution, we create room to make selective investments in growth to broaden the mobile platform to new use cases and new sectors. We believe the growth will come in areas outside of our traditional CSP markets.

透過有紀律的執行，我們創造空間以進行選擇性的成長投資，將行動平台拓展至新的使用情境與新產業。我們相信成長將來自傳統 CSP 市場以外的領域。

And then we're talking about areas like enterprise and mission critical networks. In our Enterprise segment, which includes our Vison business, private networks, network APIs or as we now call it, actually network-powered solutions and mobile money, organic growth was stronger, which is encouraging.

例如企業與關鍵任務網路等領域。在我們的企業事業部門（包含 Vison 業務、專網、網路 API——或我們現在稱之為「網路驅動解決方案」——以及行動支付）中，有機成長更為強勁，這令人鼓舞。

There are new markets that we see as key opportunities going forward. Of course, new markets take time to develop but we're now seeing these efforts start to scale.

我們看到一些新市場，並將其視為未來的關鍵機會。當然，新市場需要時間發展，但我們現在正看到這些努力開始擴大規模。

I would also comment on the loss in Enterprise of SEK1.4 billion it's clearly unacceptable, but it also includes a number of onetime costs and have an improvement plan in place that we're executing on and we will expect to see that coming through shrinking losses during the rest of the year, comes from growth, operational discipline and of course, at the onetime cost base.

我也想評論企業事業部門 14 億瑞典克朗的虧損，這顯然不可接受，但其中也包含若干一次性成本；我們已制定並正在執行改善計畫，預期在今年其餘時間將看到虧損縮小，來源包括成長、營運紀律，當然也包括一次性成本基礎的影響。

We're also driving several other growth initiatives. And there, we see good progress in mission-critical networks which tend to be a bit lumpy and vary by quarter. We're experiencing strong interest in several verticals, particularly within Defense Solutions.

我們也在推動其他多項成長計畫。其中，我們在關鍵任務網路方面看到良好進展，該業務通常較為波動，並會隨季度而變化。我們在多個垂直領域看到強勁興趣，尤其是在國防解決方案方面。

In modern defense applications, high performance, and then I'm talking about large capacity connectivity is required. And this will make 5G stand-alone a cost-effective alternative.

在現代國防應用中，需要高效能——我指的是大容量連線能力。這將使 5G 獨立組網（stand-alone）成為具成本效益的替代方案。

And we've seen a trial with the Italian Navy, or actually deployment with the Italian Navy this quarter. Another very exciting area is 5G based sensing where one of many use cases is about detecting unconnected drones.

本季我們已看到與義大利海軍的試驗，或者說其實是與義大利海軍的部署。另一個非常令人振奮的領域是基於 5G 的感測，其中眾多使用案例之一是偵測未連網的無人機。

We're seeing good momentum on our strategy execution and will strengthen Ericsson operationally. And I would say this is showing now in our Q1 results.

我們在策略執行上看到良好動能，並將在營運面強化愛立信。我會說，這點現在已在我們第一季的結果中展現出來。

With that, let me give the word over to you, Lars, to go through the numbers in some more detail.

接下來，我把時間交給你，Lars，請你更詳細地帶大家看一下數字。

All right. Thank you, Borje. I will begin with some additional comments on the group before moving over to the segments. So net sales in Q1 totaled SEK49.3 billion, with organic sales growing 6% year-on-year.

好的。謝謝你，Borje。我會先就集團層面補充一些評論，接著再談各事業部門。第一季淨銷售額合計為 493 億瑞典克朗，有機銷售額年增 6%。

The growth was broad-based and sales grew in all segments and three market areas delivered double-digit organic growth, driven by continued 5G rollouts and increased uptake of 5G core.

成長動能相當廣泛，所有事業部門的銷售額皆成長，且有三個市場區域繳出雙位數的有機成長，主要受惠於 5G 持續建設以及 5G 核心網路採用率提升。

Americas declined 2%, with strong growth in Latin America, more than offset by a mid-single-digit decline in North America, following a strong quarter last year. Reported sales decreased by 10%, impacted by a negative currency effect of SEK7.8 billion.

美洲地區下滑 2%，拉丁美洲的強勁成長，仍不足以抵銷北美在去年同期基期較高之後出現的中個位數百分比下滑。以報導口徑計算的銷售額下降 10%，受到 78 億瑞典克朗的負面匯率影響。

So organic growth, again grew 6%. IPR revenues were SEK3.1 billion. And this run rate coming out of the quarter is approximately then SEK13 billion.

因此，有機成長再次達到 6%。IPR（智慧財產權）收入為 31 億瑞典克朗。而本季結束後的收入運行水準約為 130 億瑞典克朗。

Adjusted gross income was SEK23.7 billion with a negative currency impact of SEK3.8 billion. Adjusted gross margin was 48.1%, in line with last year, excluding iconectiv.

調整後毛利為 237 億瑞典克朗，其中匯率帶來 38 億瑞典克朗的負面影響。調整後毛利率為 48.1%，若排除 iconectiv，則與去年持平。

On the cost side, operating expenses, excluding restructuring charges, dropped to SEK18.4 billion, around SEK2 billion lower year-over-year, driven mainly by currency as well as the divestment of iconectiv.

在成本方面，營業費用（不含重整費用）降至 184 億瑞典克朗，較去年同期約減少 20 億瑞典克朗，主要由匯率因素以及出售 iconectiv 所帶動。

Underlying inflationary pressures were more than offset by cost reduction driven by head count as well as efficiency measures. And as Borje mentioned, adjusted EBITDA, which excludes restructuring, but includes the other one-offs was SEK5.6 billion.

潛在的通膨壓力已被人力編制帶動的成本降低以及效率措施所抵銷，且抵銷幅度更大。另外，如 Borje 所提到，調整後 EBITDA（不含重組，但包含其他一次性項目）為 56 億瑞典克朗。

This is down by SEK1.4 billion, including a negative impact of SEK2.2 billion. The divestment of iconectiv and SEK0.5 billion of additional share-based compensation costs coming from the increased share price here during the quarter.

這較前期減少 14 億瑞典克朗，其中包含 22 億瑞典克朗的負面影響。該負面影響來自 iconectiv 的剝離，以及本季因股價上漲而增加的 5 億瑞典克朗以股份為基礎的薪酬成本。

The EBITDA margin was 11.3%. Cash flow before M&A was SEK5.9 billion, driven by earnings and reduced net operating assets. So let's move to the segments. In Networks, sales decreased by 8% year-on-year to SEK32.9 billion with a negative currency impact of SEK5.2 billion.

EBITDA 利潤率為 11.3%。併購（M&A）前的現金流為 59 億瑞典克朗，主要由獲利以及淨營運資產下降所帶動。接下來我們看各事業部門。在 Networks 部門，銷售額年減 8% 至 329 億瑞典克朗，其中匯率帶來 52 億瑞典克朗的負面影響。

Organic sales increased by 7%. Organic revenues grew in three of our four market areas, two strategic markets, India and Japan grew strongly. North America declined impacted by customer spend reallocation in Q1 this year following recent market consolidation.

有機銷售成長 7%。我們四個市場區域中有三個的有機營收成長，其中兩個策略市場——印度與日本——成長強勁。北美則下滑，主要受今年第一季近期市場整併後客戶支出重新配置所影響。

Customer investments were also elevated last year due to tariff uncertainty impacting the comparison. Networks adjusted gross margin decreased slightly to 50.4%, mainly reflecting actions to enhance resilience in the supply chain.

此外，去年客戶投資因關稅不確定性而偏高，也影響了比較基期。Networks 調整後毛利率小幅下降至 50.4%，主要反映為提升供應鏈韌性所採取的行動。

Adjusted EBITDA was SEK6.4 billion, impacted by a negative currency impact of SEK2 billion, benefiting from lower operating expenses, which were also supported by continued efficiency improvements. Adjusted EBITDA margin was 13.9%, sorry, 13.3%.

調整後 EBITDA 為 64 億瑞典克朗，受到 20 億瑞典克朗匯率負面影響，但受惠於較低的營運費用，且持續的效率改善亦提供支撐。調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 13.9%，抱歉，是 13.3%。

Looking at the right-hand graph, the rolling four quarter gross margin stabilized around 50% and adjusted EBITDA margin at around 20%. Moving to the segment, Cloud Software and Services. Sales here decreased 9% to SEK11.8 billion, including a negative currency impact of SEK1.6 million.

看右側圖表，近四季滾動毛利率穩定在約 50%，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率約在 20%。接著看 Cloud Software and Services 部門。此處銷售額下降 9% 至 118 億瑞典克朗，其中包含 160 萬瑞典克朗的匯率負面影響。

So organically, grew by 4%, with growth primarily in core. Adjusted gross margin came in at 43.2%, an improvement from 39.9% last year, supported by improved delivery efficiency and a favorable product mix.

因此，有機成長 4%，成長主要來自核心業務。調整後毛利率為 43.2%，較去年 39.9% 提升，受惠於交付效率改善以及有利的產品組合。

Adjusted EBITDA increased to SEK0.6 billion with a margin of SEK5.3 billion despite a negative currency impact of SEK0.3 billion. Lower gross income was offset by lower operating expenses here.

調整後 EBITDA 增加至 6 億瑞典克朗，利潤率為 53 億瑞典克朗，儘管有 3 億瑞典克朗的匯率負面影響。較低的毛利被較低的營運費用所抵銷。

Looking at the right-hand graph, the rolling four quarters, adjusted gross margin was around 44% and adjusted EBITDA margin around 12%, and these are both new high levels. So reported sales on the enterprise side decreased 30%, impacted by the sale of iconectiv and currency.

看右側圖表，近四季滾動的調整後毛利率約為 44%，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率約為 12%，兩者皆創新高。因此，企業端的報告銷售額下降 30%，受到 iconectiv 出售以及匯率影響。

On an organic basis, Enterprise grew by 4%, and this marks the second quarter of organic growth. Adjusted gross margin declined to 49.0%, reflecting the impact of the divestment of iconectiv and change in business mix in global communications platform.

以有機基礎計算，Enterprise 成長 4%，這是連續第二季有機成長。調整後毛利率下滑至 49.0%，反映 iconectiv 剝離的影響，以及全球通訊平台業務組合的變化。

Adjusted EBITDA landed at minus SEK1.4 billion, reflecting the divestment of iconectiv and nonrecurring cost of SEK0.3 billion in the current quarter. Turning then to free cash flow, which was SEK5.9 billion before M&A in the quarter.

調整後 EBITDA 為負 14 億瑞典克朗，反映 iconectiv 的剝離，以及本季 3 億瑞典克朗的一次性成本。接著看自由現金流，本季併購前為 59 億瑞典克朗。

We delivered a cash to net sales of 13% for the rolling four quarters above our [9% to 12%] target. And cash flow generation was strong, supported by earnings and the stronger-than-normal seasonal reduction in operating net assets.

近四季滾動的現金對淨銷售比率為 13%，高於我們 9% 至 12% 的目標區間。現金流生成強勁，受惠於獲利以及營運淨資產較季節性常態更大幅度的下降。

Net cash increased sequentially by SEK6.9 billion to SEK68.1 million here in the quarter. The buyback program of up to SEK15 billion was approved by the AGM and share repurchases will start now soon.

本季淨現金較前一季增加 69 億瑞典克朗至 6,810 萬瑞典克朗。股東常會（AGM）已核准最高 150 億瑞典克朗的庫藏股回購計畫，股份回購將很快開始。

Next, I will cover the outlook. Global uncertainty remains elevated given the broad geopolitical and macroeconomic environment, including the global semiconductor situation, and Borje will come back to this. The Q2 outlook assumes no tariff changes and the exchange rates specified in the report.

接下來我將說明展望。在廣泛的地緣政治與總體經濟環境下（包括全球半導體情勢），全球不確定性仍然偏高，Borje 稍後會再回到這點。第二季展望假設關稅不變，並採用報告中所列的匯率。

For Networks, we expect sales growth to be broadly similar to the three year average quarter-on-quarter seasonality. And for Cloud Software and Services, we expect sales growth to be above the three year average quarter-on-quarter seasonality.

對於 Networks，我們預期銷售成長大致與三年平均的季對季季節性相近。而對於 Cloud Software and Services，我們預期銷售成長將高於三年平均的季對季季節性。

We expect Networks adjusted gross margin to be in the range of 49% to 51% and restructuring charges for 2026 are expected to be at an elevated level with a fairly large part already seen in Q1. So with that, I hand back to you, Borje.

我們預期 Networks 調整後毛利率將落在 49% 至 51% 的區間；2026 年的重組費用預期將維持在較高水準，其中相當一部分已在第一季反映。那麼，我把時間交回給你，Borje。

Thanks a lot, Lars. So our Q1 results demonstrate the strong execution on our strategic priorities and the actions we've taken over the last several years to strengthen the company operationally.

非常感謝，Lars。我們第一季的結果展現了在策略優先事項上的強勁執行力，以及過去幾年為強化公司營運所採取的行動。

This includes how we made Ericsson less reliant on any specific geographical mix, enabling us to sustain healthy margins in varying market conditions, as you've seen in today's report. Our actions also include how we diversified our supply chain to mitigate as much of the geopolitical disturbances as possible.

這包括我們如何讓 Ericsson 對任何特定地理組合的依賴降低，使我們能在不同市場條件下維持健康的利潤率，正如你在今天的報告中所見。我們的行動也包括供應鏈多元化，以盡可能降低地緣政治干擾的影響。

This continues to be a clear competitive advantage, enabling us to meet customer commitments amid the current backdrop. Of course, the global semicon situations remains challenging as the AI boom is increasing input costs.

這仍然是明確的競爭優勢，使我們能在目前的環境下履行對客戶的承諾。當然，全球半導體情勢仍具挑戰，因 AI 熱潮正在推升投入成本。

We continue to take actions and Lars mentioned this as well to mitigate this impact by working closely with both our customers and suppliers, of course, including our pricing. Well, we believe we're in a good position. We are not immune to these disturbances.

我們持續採取行動——Lars 也提到——透過與客戶及供應商緊密合作來緩解這項影響，當然也包括我們的定價。我們相信我們處於良好位置。但我們並非不受這些干擾影響。

So they will have consequences on price and availability. As, of course, AI may be the key driver for our industry longer term. We see AI as a net positive for us.

因此，這些因素將對價格與供應可得性造成影響。同時，AI 也可能是我們產業長期的關鍵驅動力。我們將 AI 視為對我們的淨正面因素。

The next phase of AI will see AI being industrialized, shifting focus from current focus on data centers, large language models rather to applications, devices, use cases. This will require advanced mobile connectivity with capabilities such as ultra-low latency and high uplink.

AI 的下一階段將進入產業化，焦點將從目前以資料中心與大型語言模型為主，轉向應用、裝置與使用情境。這將需要先進的行動連線能力，例如超低延遲與高上行能力。

This puts us in the middle of the next phase of the AI era. With our strategy, we are well positioned to capitalize on this opportunity. We're doing this by providing the industry's best networks for AI and by expanding the mobile platform to new use cases and sectors.

這使我們站在 AI 時代下一階段的核心位置。憑藉我們的策略，我們已做好充分準備把握這個機會。我們透過提供業界最佳的 AI 網路，並將行動平台擴展至新的使用情境與產業領域來實現。

This includes exposing network capabilities through network powered solutions, allowing developers to use the network capabilities to create new use cases.

這也包括透過網路賦能（network powered）的解決方案對外釋出網路能力，讓開發者能運用網路能力創造新的使用情境。

It also includes opening up new addressable markets such as Enterprise Solutions based on cellular technology and mission-critical networks. And this will allow us to capture a greater share of the value from connectivity and drive mid-single-digit growth for Ericsson while achieving our long-term margin targets of 15% to 18%.

也包括開拓新的可服務市場，例如以蜂巢式技術與任務關鍵型網路為基礎的企業解決方案。這將使我們能從連線價值中取得更高的價值份額，並在達成 15% 至 18% 的長期利潤率目標的同時，推動 Ericsson 達到中個位數成長。

So with that, I think it's time for some Q&A.

那麼，我想現在是進入問答的時間了。

(Event Instructions) Simon Grana Simon Granath at ABG.

（活動說明）Simon Grana，ABG 的 Simon Granath。

Thank you so much, Daniel. I have a question on Lars on the memory and cost inflation. And the Q1 margin performance for Networks was, in my view, strong.

非常感謝你，Daniel。我有一個問題想問 Lars，關於記憶體與成本通膨。我認為 Networks 第一季的利潤率表現很強勁。

But given the rising memory prices and as inventory run down through the year, how confident are you that memory prices won't be a significant headwind for the rest of the year? And all else equal, and on this topic, should we see Q1 marking the highest level for the year.

但鑑於記憶體價格上漲，以及庫存將在今年逐步消化，您對於記憶體價格在今年剩餘期間不會成為重大逆風的信心有多高？另外，在其他條件不變且就此議題而言，我們是否應該預期第一季會是全年最高水準？

All right. Thanks, Simon. When it comes to outlook, we give, as you know, outlook for the first, or for the next quarter here. So, but when it comes to memory cost and other semiconductor costs. There is, as we say, here a headwind coming.

好的。謝謝你，Simon。就展望而言，如你所知，我們在這裡提供的是第一季、或下一季的展望。所以，但談到記憶體成本以及其他半導體成本，如我們在此所說，確實有逆風正在到來。

And, but we should also remember that it is a smaller part of our total cost base, of course, but there is a headwind coming, and we are working hard to mitigate other with our suppliers, but also together with our customers to share the burden here, and then it comes to what can we do when it comes to product substitution, et cetera.

不過我們也應該記得，這當然只佔我們總成本基礎中較小的一部分；但逆風確實正在到來。我們正努力與供應商一起緩解，同時也與客戶合作分攤這裡的負擔；此外也包括在產品替代等方面我們能做些什麼。

And it is a bit too early, I think, already now to say how the impact will be, but you will, if there is, and when there is things happening, you will see that more coming into the second half of the year.

我認為現在就說影響會如何還有點太早，但如果有、以及當有事情發生時，你會看到更多影響會在今年下半年浮現。

Andrew Gardiner at Citi.

花旗的 Andrew Gardiner。

So just on the North America revenue trends that you saw in the quarter. You've highlighted the pressure there or sort of mid-single digit down year-on-year. I'm just wondering what your view for 2026 as a whole is for that region.

我想就本季你們看到的北美營收趨勢提問。你們強調那裡有壓力，或是年增率約中個位數下滑。我想了解你們對 2026 年全年該區域的看法是什麼。

The comps, as you suggested, were particularly tough in the first quarter given tariff impact last year and some buy forward.

如你所提，因為去年關稅影響以及部分提前拉貨，第一季的比較基期特別艱難。

Does that, does the decline that you've seen in the first quarter, should that lessen as we come through 2026? Or are there other factors we should be aware of?

那麼，你們在第一季看到的下滑，到了 2026 年的進程中是否應該會趨緩？或者還有其他我們需要注意的因素？

You see a lot of forecasts in the market on the North American market. And I would say the development you've seen during the first quarter is is probably similar to what we should expect for the year. I think that's fair to say, given our customers guidance.

市場上對北美市場有很多預測。我會說，你在第一季看到的發展，大概就和我們對全年應有的預期相近。考量到我們客戶的指引，我認為這樣說是合理的。

At the same time, we have a little bit different mix compared to the market where, as Lars noted, we were maybe hit a bit harder than the general market, the first quarter because the the consolidation we've seen among the operators in the US that was closed.

同時，我們的組合與市場相比略有不同；如 Lars 所提，由於美國營運商之間的整併已完成，我們在第一季可能比整體市場受到的衝擊更大一些。

So I, if you net-net, I don't see a change in market condition, but I see a bit better mix for us vis-a-vis the market. And as you know, we had a tough comp in Q1. But don't assume the US all of a sudden is going to change direction.

所以，整體來看（net-net），我不認為市場狀況有改變，但相較於市場，我們的組合會稍微更好一些。而且如你所知，我們第一季的比較基期很艱難。但不要假設美國市場會突然改變方向。

That's why I want to come back to what I think is more important today is we're less exposed to North America from a geographic mix perspective. And investments and commitment, we have been talking about to diversify our mix.

這也是為什麼我想回到我認為今天更重要的一點：從地理組合的角度來看，我們對北美的曝險已經降低。而我們也一直在談投資與承諾，以分散我們的組合。

So if we are a bit weaker in North America, but stronger in another market for the quarter, we can actually compensate that and keep a very healthy gross margin. And that, I think, lends for a better predictability of the total company and actually for a healthier way of operating the company.

因此，如果我們在北美稍弱、但在另一個市場本季較強，我們其實可以加以抵消，並維持非常健康的毛利率。我認為這有助於提升整體公司的可預測性，也讓公司營運方式更健康。

So, well, I think North America always will be important from a midpoint of view, it will be less important going forward. We work with the customers as strong to other customers, but it's always going to swing a bit up down in a quarter.

所以，我認為北美從中期角度來看仍然重要，但未來其重要性會降低。我們與客戶合作的力道不會比其他客戶弱，但它在單一季度內總是會有些上下波動。

So we, on the one hand, yes, I would always prefer them to grow, but the reality is it will swing. So the question is more how we can provide a healthy gross margin, a much more stable gross margin I think Q1 is a good indication of the work we've done.

因此，一方面，是的，我當然總是希望它能成長；但現實是它會波動。所以問題更在於我們如何提供健康的毛利率、以及更穩定的毛利率；我認為第一季就是我們所做工作的良好指標。

I mean I suppose related to that, I mean you mentioned the other strategic markets. I mean, India and Japan have been the two you've highlighted away from North America. You did see good growth there.

我想這也相關：你提到其他策略市場。也就是你們在北美以外特別強調的印度與日本。你們在那裡確實看到不錯的成長。

I mean is that something that is not just a 1Q impact, but we should expect steady growth from those two key markets through the year?

我的意思是，這不只是第一季的影響，我們是否應該預期這兩個關鍵市場在今年會持續穩健成長？

I would say there, we have actually strengthened our market position. So we should see a healthy growth as we continue to deliver on those opportunities. So I'm actually very comfortable about that.

我會說，在那裡我們其實已經強化了市場地位。因此，隨著我們持續把握那些機會，我們應該會看到健康的成長。所以我對此其實非常有信心。

Erik Lindholm-Rojestal from SEB.

SEB 的 Erik Lindholm-Rojestal。

Just one question here. I wanted to ask on OpEx and the impact of cost savings. I mean it looks like underlying OpEx is down around SEK0.5 billion, as you mentioned, despite the one-off impact that you flagged here.

我這裡只有一個問題。我想問的是營業費用（OpEx）以及成本節省的影響。我的意思是，看起來如你所提，儘管你在此指出了一次性影響，但基礎 OpEx 仍下降了約 5 億瑞典克朗（SEK0.5 billion）。

So what sort of inflationary pressures do you see in OpEx for the rest of the year? And when should we start to see the impact from the cost savings that you've launched in Sweden here at the start of the year, for example.

那麼，今年剩餘期間你們在 OpEx 方面看到哪些通膨壓力？以及例如你們在年初於瑞典啟動的成本節省措施，我們何時應該開始看到其影響？

Yes. When it comes to OpEx, I think in the quarter here, it's down organically. I think it's currency and iconectiv, that is impacting. And then there is somewhat also underlying cost reduction coming through here.

是的。就 OpEx 而言，我認為本季有機下降。我認為是匯率與 iconectiv 造成影響。此外，也有部分基礎成本降低在此反映出來。

And we are continuously working with that. The inflation we talk about is a big portion of the cost base in OpEx is related to to people. Of course, there is an underlying continuous salary increase that is coming that we need to work with.

而我們也持續在這方面努力。我們所談的通膨，OpEx 成本基礎中很大一部分與人員相關。當然，持續的薪資調升是我們必須面對並加以管理的。

And our working assumption is that we live in the flat rent market and that we need to accommodate to by continuously working and finding efficiencies and reductions where it is possible. And then we do that continuously. So that is what we are working with here every quarter continuously.

我們的工作假設是，我們處在一個「平坦成長」的市場中，因此需要透過持續工作、在可能之處找出效率與降本空間來因應。而我們也一直在這麼做。所以這就是我們每一季持續在做的工作。

And you saw there was quite a bit of restructuring here coming in the first quarter now, primarily to the Sweden area, but also the rest of Europe, we have activities in North America, in Asia, et cetera. So that is a continuous work that we are doing. And we will continue that also in the coming quarters.

你也看到第一季出現了相當多的重整，主要在瑞典地區，但也包括歐洲其他地區；我們在北美、亞洲等也都有相關活動。所以這是我們正在進行的持續性工作。而我們在接下來幾季也會繼續。

All right. But I guess it's fair to say that these measures will more show in the second half then.

好的。但我想可以說，這些措施會在下半年更明顯地反映出來。

The ones that we announced today or in this quarter, of course, they come more in the second half of the year and into next year. And then we have the previous ones that is coming you can see now. So that is a continuous work that we do.

我們今天或在本季宣布的措施，當然會更多在今年下半年以及明年反映出來。而先前的措施，你現在已經可以看到其效果正在顯現。所以這是我們持續在做的工作。

I would just add there, by experience, it takes a bit longer than you hope to see it in the numbers. So theoretically, it should come in Q3, of course, for Q2, Q3, but it will be a bit of a delay there.

我再補充一點：依經驗來看，要在數字上看到效果，往往會比你希望的時間更久一些。所以理論上，它應該會在第三季反映，當然也可能在第二季、第三季，但會有一些延遲。

That's why you see the cost kind of not exactly following the number of employees because it's simply associated with costs around when we take cost out. So but you will see it after the second half and into next year.

這也是為什麼你會看到成本並沒有完全跟著員工人數變動，因為這單純與我們削減成本時所伴隨的相關費用有關。所以你會在下半年之後以及明年看到它。

Andreas Joelsson at DNB.

DNB 的 Andreas Joelsson。

Follow-up on the COGS question that we had. Of course, there's a headwind coming from the component prices, but you have been able to increase the gross margin in Networks for some time, and now it has stabilized.

針對我們先前的 COGS 問題追問一下。當然，元件價格帶來逆風，但你們在網路（Networks）業務的毛利率一段時間以來一直能提升，現在也已經趨於穩定。

What other areas within COGS, have you sort of from experience the last few years, learned that there is maybe, that you can use to compensate for component price increases. So it's not just negotiations with vendors and customers that could keep the gross margin resilient, as you say, if you understand that blurry question.

在 COGS 的其他領域，你們是否從過去幾年的經驗中學到，有哪些地方也許可以用來抵銷元件價格上漲？也就是說，不只是與供應商和客戶談判，還有其他方式能如你所說維持毛利率韌性——如果你理解我這個有點模糊的問題的話。

No, thanks for your question, Andreas. I can try to give you a notion. Of course, the most important one is to work on the crisis. It's undoubtedly the case and that will continue to do the other levers we have, we actually have proven to be very sizable.

不，謝謝你的問題，Andreas。我可以試著給你一些概念。當然，最重要的是處理這場危機。這無庸置疑，而且我們也會持續這麼做；另外我們手上還有其他槓桿，事實上也已證明規模相當可觀。

It is product substitution, i.e., we can, through technology development, we deliver a product that performs the same but at a lower price or a lower cost point, I should say. So that's actually may be the most important one, that we've been able to do for quite some time.

其中之一是產品替代，也就是我們可以透過技術開發，交付效能相同但價格更低、或我應該說成本點更低的產品。所以這其實可能是最重要的一項，而且我們已經能做到相當長一段時間了。

And I feel quite comfortable we'll get that with the next-generation ASIC coming within a not-too-distant future. Then we have also been able to take a lot of costs out on service delivery. And there, I think there are more costs to be taken out.

而且我相當有信心，在不久的將來推出的下一代 ASIC 也能做到這點。此外，我們也已經能在服務交付上大幅降低成本。而在那方面，我認為還有更多成本可以再降。

So I think we have, it's not, it doesn't come easy. It doesn't come in that sense for free. But I do think there is a number of areas, we can kind of leverage to protect a healthy gross margin longer term. And that's why I feel we have kind of reached a different level of of performance and control on the cost side.

所以我認為我們有——這並不容易。也不是說在某種意義上是免費得來的。但我確實認為有多個領域可以運用，來在長期保護健康的毛利率。這也是為什麼我覺得我們在成本端的表現與控管已經達到不同的層級。

And you know component prices have varied already now. So we've been able to handle that in many different ways.

而且你知道，元件價格其實現在就已經在波動。所以我們也已經能用許多不同方式來應對。

And our ambition is clear. That's what we intend to do going forward as well. And we have a number of degrees of freedom in what we we actually do to manage the margins.

我們的企圖心很明確。這也是我們未來打算持續做的事。而且在實際管理毛利率方面，我們有相當多的操作彈性。

Richard Kramer at Arete.

Arete 的 Richard Kramer。

Borje, you mentioned the early stages of physical AI, which would involve greater mobile connectivity. But can you point to anything within your portfolio, which could provide a material uplift to group sales growth, especially addressing the sort of data center AI spending boom given that enterprise remains fairly small in the mix?

Borje，你提到實體 AI（physical AI）的早期階段，這會涉及更高的行動連結性。但你能否指出你們產品組合中，有哪些可能對集團銷售成長帶來實質提升，特別是在企業（enterprise）占比仍相對小的情況下，如何切入目前資料中心 AI 支出暴增的趨勢？

Yes. Richard, it's a good question. We're not going to see any sales directly from data center expansions right now. Our call it, exposure to AI is more going to come from the applications when you start to see inference play a very different role.

是的。Richard，這是個好問題。我們目前不會直接從資料中心擴建中看到任何銷售。我們所謂對 AI 的曝險，更多會來自應用端，當你開始看到推論（inference）扮演非常不同的角色時。

So we may not be the front runner on the AI wave, but we are rather the longer term, I would say it's one of our key drivers of traffic in the networks. And the connectivity will does look different.

所以我們可能不是 AI 浪潮的領跑者，但我會說從長期來看，它是我們網路流量的關鍵驅動因素之一。而連結型態也確實會有所不同。

That's why I believe the exposure we have is going to come more from that traffic development from AI moving into implementations, but it's also going to come from AI in enterprises.

因此我相信，我們的曝險更多會來自 AI 走向落地實作所帶動的流量成長，但也會來自企業中的 AI。

And here, we start to see some front runner industrial companies, still small, but actually picking up demand in two areas: enterprise connectivity, i.e., wireless solutions or as a matter of fact, in interest for network APIs and embedding that into enterprise use cases.

在這裡，我們開始看到一些領先的工業公司——規模仍小，但實際上在兩個領域的需求正在上升：企業連結性，也就是無線解決方案；或者更確切地說，對網路 API 的興趣，以及把它嵌入企業使用情境中。

So I would like, no, I don't want to promote that we have any exposure to data center. So that wave is going to go. We're more a little bit behind that. I guess, in the, I don't know what to call it, but kind of benefiting from the overall migration of applications towards AI.

所以我想說，不，我不想宣傳我們有任何資料中心方面的曝險。所以那一波會先走。我們比較是稍微落後一點。我想，在某種——我不知道該怎麼稱呼——但算是從整體應用往 AI 遷移的趨勢中受益。

Felix Henriksson at Nordea.

Nordea 的 Felix Henriksson。

Good to see the cloud software services EBITDA margin expanding to around 1% on a 12 month rolling basis. I wanted to ask, is there any reason why the margin expansion in this segment should not continue given that growth seems to be led by very margin-accretive 5G core demand?

很高興看到雲端軟體服務的 EBITDA 利潤率在過去 12 個月滾動基礎上擴大到約 1%。我想問的是，鑑於成長似乎由毛利率增厚效果很強的 5G 核心網需求所帶動，這個部門的利潤率擴張是否有任何理由不會持續？

It's a good question. I think what we have said is that the first aim here is to reach a stable double-digit margin. and then we work from there. And I think we need to remember that the cloud software is also connected to the flat rent market.

這是個好問題。我想我們說過，這裡的第一個目標是達到穩定的兩位數利潤率，然後再從那裡往上努力。同時我們也要記得，雲端軟體也與「平坦的租賃市場」相連。

So there is, but still, there is an underlying growth that we are able to capture with the, in the core area, which is good, I think. And we have managed to show that we are having a good market position there.

所以確實存在——但即便如此，在核心網領域仍有我們能掌握的基本面成長，我認為這是好的。而且我們也已經展現出在那裡擁有良好的市場地位。

So we continue to work on that. So we don't promise we guide quarter-by-quarter, as you know, but we feel we have reached a stable level now in way in the company.

所以我們會持續在這方面努力。如你所知，我們不會逐季承諾或提供指引，但我們覺得公司現在已經在某種程度上達到穩定的水準。

Ulrich Rathe at Bernstein.

Bernstein 的 Ulrich Rathe。

There's more a question for Lars, please. You talked about how you have immunized margin to the foreign exchange moves by merging cost and revenue better. Can you sort of talk about that a little bit more.

這比較是想請 Lars 回答的問題。你談到你們如何透過更好地匹配成本與收入，來讓利潤率對外匯波動「免疫」。你能否更詳細談談這點？

And I'm wondering, in particular, two areas here. One is to what extent are you still benefiting from hedging that could roll off and produce an incremental headwind as the FX rates stay where they are?

我特別想問兩個面向。第一，你們目前在多大程度上仍受益於避險，而這些避險可能會到期，若匯率維持在目前水準，是否會帶來額外的逆風？

And also, with the current level of FX matching in cost and revenue, what would be the effect of a strengthening, sorry, of a weakening Swedish krona, would that actually correspond to a material margin driver for you or not?

第二，在目前成本與收入的外匯匹配程度下，如果瑞典克朗走強——抱歉，是走弱——那對你們而言是否會成為實質的利潤率驅動因素，還是不會？

I think we need to separate between gross margin and EBITDA margin here. On the gross margin, we are fairly balanced in the currency basket whereas in the OpEx side, we are much more exposed with the Swedish SEKratio there. So it's higher as we get more of an impact from that end.

我認為這裡需要把毛利率與 EBITDA 利潤率分開來看。在毛利率方面，我們在貨幣籃子上相對平衡；但在營運費用（OpEx）端，我們因瑞典克朗（SEK）占比而曝險更高。因此那邊的影響會更大。

So I think from, so that's what's impacting, so would say, the FX mix that we have. So I think that, and if there is a significant change, you would see that more impacting a bit broader in gross margins in that sense.

所以我認為，這就是我們的外匯組合所造成的影響。因此如果出現顯著變動，你會看到它在某種意義上對毛利率有更廣泛一些的影響。

And then when it comes to hedging, we have some hedging, but rather low levels and they are coming out. So it should not be a big impact going forward.

至於避險，我們有一些，但水位相對低，而且也正在到期。所以未來不應該會有太大的影響。

Sandeep Deshpande at JPMorgan.

JPMorgan 的 Sandeep Deshpande。

Could I ask, I mean you've seen this weakness in North America, in terms of your exposure to 5G and 5G core outside North America, do you see there is a potential for significant upgrades?

我想請問，你們看到北美市場的疲弱；就你們在北美以外的 5G 與 5G 核心網曝險而言，你們是否看到有進行大幅升級的潛力？

I mean, that is the market hasn't shifted as much to 5G or 5G core over the last few years as it has in North America and thus the growth outside North America could compensate if North American growth over the next couple of years is not going to be as strong.

也就是說，過去幾年北美以外市場轉向 5G 或 5G 核心網的速度，並不像北美那麼快；因此，如果未來幾年北美成長不會那麼強，北美以外的成長是否能夠補上？

And the question I'm asking here is that historically outside North America, they have not been as keen to quickly upgrade to the escalation technologies like 5G or 4G even before that. So I mean how do you see that progress, I mean, at this point?

我之所以這樣問，是因為歷史上北美以外市場並沒有那麼積極快速升級到像 5G 這類的演進技術，甚至在那之前的 4G 也是如此。所以你怎麼看目前這個進展？

Borje, maybe we ask you to take that one?

Borje，也許我們請你來回答這題？

Yes. I, that's a very good question. North America have been a front-runner market it's still not fully migrated to 5G SA even there. The only market which is fully 5G SA actually is China. So we see that, that's where the market will go.

是的。我覺得這是個非常好的問題。北美一直是領先市場，但即使在那裡也仍未完全遷移到 5G SA。目前唯一真正全面採用 5G SA 的市場其實是中國。所以我們看到，那就是市場未來會走向的方向。

We see a number of operators today increasingly focused on migrating to, from 5G nonstand-alone into 5G SA and then 5G advanced. It's still largely a work in progress.

我們看到目前有不少電信業者愈來愈聚焦於從 5G NSA（非獨立組網）遷移到 5G SA，接著再到 5G Advanced。這在很大程度上仍在進行中。

So if you try to give some sort of statistics, maybe 1/4 of the operators have some sort of 5G SA and, 5G SA of scale is fewer than that. So I would say that's actually one of the major opportunities for our industry. And it's two things.

所以如果你要給一些統計數字，大概有 1/4 的業者具備某種形式的 5G SA，而具備規模化的 5G SA 的業者比這更少。因此我會說，這其實是我們產業的一個主要機會。而且有兩個面向。

Of course, it's an upgrade cycle for us. But I think more importantly, it will allow the operators to start offering differentiated services. So you can have network slicing, dynamic network slicing, for example, can happen when you have 5G stand-alone.

當然，對我們而言這是一個升級週期。但我認為更重要的是，它將讓電信業者開始提供差異化服務。因此你可以做網路切片，例如動態網路切片，這些在你有 5G 獨立組網時就能實現。

So the way we think about this is it's actually one of our more positive opportunities from a medium-term perspective as companies or operate as an upgrade. The way to think about this is in order to prepare your network for 6G, that eventually will come, you need to actually migrate through 5G stand-alone into 5G advanced and then have built the architecture that's prepared for 6G.

所以我們的看法是，從中期角度來看，這其實是我們較為正面的機會之一，無論是作為公司或作為一次升級。可以這樣理解：為了讓你的網路為未來終將到來的 6G 做準備，你實際上需要先經由 5G 獨立組網走向 5G Advanced，並建立好能為 6G 做好準備的架構。

So I see while not everyone have transitioned today, they will need to go that , and so it will provide an interesting opportunity for us as operators upgrade.

所以我認為，雖然今天不是每個人都已完成轉換，但他們終究需要走那條路，因此這將為我們帶來一個有趣的機會，因為電信業者會進行升級。

So that's why we've invested in positioning as well on 5G Core, and we're now starting to see growth coming through on 5G Core. So it's actually, I think, a net-net positive for us as we move forward.

這也是為什麼我們在 5G Core（核心網）上也投入資源、進行定位，而我們現在開始看到 5G Core 的成長逐步顯現。所以我認為，整體而言，隨著我們往前走，這對我們是淨正面。

Daniel Djurberg at Handelsbanken.

Handelsbanken 的 Daniel Djurberg。

A question, I was quite impressed by the network to gross margin, given the geographical mix with large deployment in India and also growth in (inaudible), it could indicate that it was capacity heavy and if that is correct, should we expect more coverage and hardware employment in second half in India, for example, in Japan, supported on gross margins? And then also we have the cost inflation that you mentioned.

我有個問題。考量到地理組合（在印度有大量部署，且（聽不清）也在成長），我對 Networks 的毛利率表現印象深刻；這可能意味著偏向容量型部署。如果這個判斷正確，我們是否應該預期下半年在印度（例如在日本）會有更多覆蓋與硬體部署，並對毛利率形成支撐？另外，你們也提到了成本通膨。

Maybe, Borje, we can start with your thoughts on those two markets more broadly, and Lars, on the margins.

也許 Borje，你可以先從更宏觀的角度談談這兩個市場；Lars 再談毛利率。

Yes. I know we were often talking abou coverage and capacity before. I would say what we have tried to do is actually to reduce the dependence of that as well. So when you look at this, there is always an element of higher-margin software sales versus hardware, but it's less important going forward.

是的。我知道我們之前常在談覆蓋與容量。我會說，我們其實也一直在努力降低對這些因素的依賴。所以當你看這件事時，確實總會有高毛利軟體銷售相對於硬體的因素，但未來這點的重要性會降低。

So the comment here is probably to say that there is a tad more capacity, but it's not meaningfully impacting the profile here.

所以這裡的評論大概是說，容量型的比重確實稍微多一點，但並沒有對這裡的毛利結構造成實質影響。

Yes. No, I think he covers it well. So I think the outlook you see in the, for the Q2 here for Networks is 49% to 51%, and that is what we see now based on the product portfolio, product deliveries and market mix, we foresee now. So I think signals rather stability as well.

是的。不，我認為他已經說得很到位了。所以我認為你在這裡看到的 Networks 第二季展望是 49% 到 51%，而這就是我們基於目前的產品組合、產品交付以及我們所預見的市場組合所看到的情況。所以我認為這也釋放出相對穩定的訊號。

Sebastien Sztabowicz at Kepler Cheuvreux.

Kepler Cheuvreux 的 Sebastien Sztabowicz。

On the defense market opportunity, you've been talking about a $10 billion opportunity in that market. Now you are talking about some trials happening currently in Italy.

關於國防市場的機會，你們一直提到那個市場有 100 億美元的機會。現在你們又提到目前在義大利正在進行一些試驗。

When do you expect the opportunity to materialize and generate first significant revenue. Is it an opportunity over three, five or beyond five years, just to understand a little bit the phasing and the ramp of this technology.

你們預期這個機會何時會開始落地並帶來第一筆顯著營收？這會是三年、五年，或是超過五年的機會？我想更了解一下這項技術的時程分布與爬坡速度。

Sure. Borje, your thoughts on the overall opportunity.

好的。Borje，你對整體機會的看法？

I actually think the opportunity is more near term. It's very hard to judge, but I think it's a very good question and your perspective may be as good as ours. What we see, though, is a very near-term, very strong need in the market for modern, call it, modern warfare involves a lot of AI and actually heavy need of communication and collectivity therefore.

我其實認為這個機會更偏近期。這很難判斷，但我覺得這是個非常好的問題，而且你的觀點可能跟我們一樣有參考價值。不過我們看到的是，市場在近期就有非常強烈的需求：所謂現代戰爭包含大量 AI，並且因此對通訊與連結性有很高的需求。

So we see that this is much more of a near-term opportunity. I wouldn't say five years plus, it's more kind of a mid, call it, use three years for lack of a better word before this opportunity. But if you start to think about, okay critical site.

所以我們認為這更像是一個近期的機會。我不會說是五年以上；更像是中期——如果硬要說，可能用三年來描述這個機會的時間框架。但如果你開始思考，例如關鍵場域。

It could be a sports arena now or a nuclear power station or an energy generation station or something like that. The threat from drones are pretty much today.

它現在可能是一座體育場、核電廠、能源發電站或類似的地方。來自無人機的威脅幾乎就是今天正在發生的事。

So when you start to think about when is the technology needed from a risk perspective and protection perspective, it's actually a near-term risk. So as I know it, or as I see it, I think we need to tackle that need when the market is there.

所以當你從風險與防護的角度去思考何時需要這項技術時，這其實是近期風險。因此就我所知、或我所看到的，我認為當市場需求已經存在時，我們就需要去因應。

So had I wished we would have started a few years earlier, yes. But I think we're in pretty good shape to start to see these opportunities materialize over the next even maybe 9, 12, 18 months opportunity and then they start to scale at at two, three years.

所以如果你問我是否希望我們能早幾年開始，是的。但我認為我們目前的狀態相當不錯，接下來甚至可能在 9、12、18 個月內就開始看到這些機會落地，然後在兩到三年內開始擴大規模。

So I'm quite excited about these opportunities because the communication network and the scale we have makes our solutions rather competitive.

所以我對這些機會感到相當興奮，因為我們的通訊網路以及我們具備的規模，讓我們的解決方案相當有競爭力。

So I'm actually, I'm thinking this is, our ambition is that this is a nearer-term opportunity than five plus years. but then putting an exact number on it, I can, to be honest. But I'm, but the reception we get from customers is very positive.

所以我確實認為，我們的企圖是讓這成為一個比五年以上更近期的機會；但要給出一個精確數字，老實說我做不到。不過我們從客戶那裡得到的回饋非常正面。

Sami Sarkamies at Danske.

Danske 的 Sami Sarkamies。

I still wanted to go back to the rising input costs that were discussed earlier in the call. I have a two part question.

我還是想回到先前電話會議中討論的投入成本上升。我有一個兩部分的問題。

Firstly, can you elaborate on your current operator agreements allow you to raise prices, if needed, do they, for example, cater for above normal cost inflation.

第一，你們目前與電信業者的合約是否允許你們在需要時調漲價格？例如，是否涵蓋高於正常水準的成本通膨？

And then secondly, when you look at your operator customers, are you seeing rising energy costs to have an impact on their behavior and potentially investment plans for the year.

第二，當你們看電信業者客戶時，你們是否看到能源成本上升正在影響他們的行為，並可能影響他們今年的投資計畫？

Lars, so we start with you on the first and Borje.

Lars，我們先請你回答第一題，然後 Borje。

We start on the customer side. There are, it depends on the renewal cycle of contracts that we have with customers, and that can vary a bit in different markets and different customers. So there are, but there are still an opportunity I think, to take this discussion because we are, these are a bit exceptional times.

先從客戶端來看。這取決於我們與客戶合約的續約週期，而不同市場與不同客戶之間會有些差異。所以我認為仍然有機會來進行這樣的討論，因為這些確實是比較特殊的時期。

So there is, we need to take this in a good commercial discussion with our customers. And when it comes on the energy impact on operators, I think that is an important part to TCO where our products with the right investments they do, they can drive down their TCO.

因此，我們需要與客戶進行良好的商務溝通。至於能源對電信業者的影響，我認為那是總持有成本（TCO）中的重要一環；透過正確的投資，我們的產品可以幫助他們降低 TCO。

So I think in that sense, it helps our competitive advantage in the market. But we have not seen any big impact yet. But of course, if there is a prolonged situation, with high energy costs that could have an impact, but we have not seen that.

所以在這個意義上，它有助於強化我們在市場上的競爭優勢。但我們目前還沒有看到任何重大影響。當然，如果高能源成本的情況持續很長一段時間，可能會產生影響，但我們尚未看到。

And I think you should also remember, revenue base of our customers is very stable. So they have quite, we have seen this historically. And normally, our industry or our customers are quite resilient over time. I don't know if you want to add more on that way.

而且我認為你也應該記得，我們客戶的營收基礎非常穩定。所以他們相當——我們從歷史上已經看到這一點。而且通常，我們這個產業或我們的客戶，隨著時間推移都相當具韌性。我不知道你是否想就這點再補充一些。

You've captured it. What we see, and we see an increasing focus on energy efficiency in discussions with customers. So I think this will be a topic. And as Lars said, it kind of goes both ways, right?

你已經把重點說到了。我們看到的是，在與客戶的討論中，對能源效率的關注正在提高。所以我認為這會是一個議題。而且如 Lars 所說，這有點是雙向的，對吧？

It's an opportunity because they need to actually upgrade sell the old equipment. And they actually need to move towards modern. And at the same time, they get a bit tougher on their own cost position.

這是一個機會，因為他們確實需要升級、汰換舊設備。而且他們確實需要朝向現代化。同時，他們也會在自身成本結構上變得更嚴格一些。

So it kind of sits in that was a bit meant we rougher as we say in Swedish, I don't know what that translates to. But that's kind of the situation, right? The interesting thing is that when we now are around, we start to see customers talking about how you actually face at own technology.

所以這有點落在——用瑞典語我們會說「was a bit meant we rougher」，我不知道那要怎麼翻。但大概就是這種情況，對吧？有趣的是，當我們現在在外面走訪時，開始看到客戶在談：你要如何逐步淘汰自有技術。

And we're even starting to see customers in some markets, talk about how do we phase out and actually migrate to 5G and in a way, then have only 5G and 6G.

我們甚至開始看到某些市場的客戶在談：我們要如何逐步淘汰，並遷移到 5G，某種程度上，之後只保留 5G 和 6G。

Of course, 3G being phased out in most regions except Europe, possibly that will also support energy efficiency. So we're actually, this energy squeeze leads to a bit of a, when you asked about change in behavior, yes, it is a change in behavior.

當然，除了歐洲之外，多數地區都在汰除 3G；這也可能會支持能源效率。所以其實，這種能源擠壓帶來了一點——當你問到行為改變時，是的，這是一種行為改變。

Much more focus on how do I get on the latest technology curve that helps me with lower process cost. And that will include phasing out 2G, 3G and soon 4G in some markets.

更聚焦在：我如何跟上最新的技術曲線，來幫助我降低處理成本。而這將包括在某些市場汰除 2G、3G，且很快也會汰除 4G。

Oliver Wong at Bank of America.

美國銀行（Bank of America）的 Oliver Wong。

I want to focus on perhaps the cost from things like logistics and transportation since given ongoing global geopolitical events, it seems like there could be some impact on that. And also perhaps on the instability of the supply chain, could that be a risk to you?

我想把焦點放在物流與運輸等項目的成本上，因為考量到持續的全球地緣政治事件，看起來可能會對此產生一些影響。另外，供應鏈的不穩定性，是否可能對你們構成風險？

So yes, it would be great to kind of discuss about the logistics and transportation costs look good. How is that relative to perhaps the impact of rising memory in terms of potential headwinds going into the year?

所以，是的，如果能討論一下物流與運輸成本的情況會很棒。相較於記憶體價格上升可能帶來的逆風，這在今年可能造成的影響，你們怎麼看？

When it comes to logistics and transportation, we have seen some impact now. But in the total scheme of our cost base, it's limited. So we should remember that. I think it's important.

就物流與運輸而言，我們現在確實看到一些影響。但在我們整體成本結構中，占比有限。所以我們應該記得這一點。我認為這很重要。

And especially now in Q1, we had some additional costs with the Middle East conflict there where we have to do some rerouting changing transportation lines, et cetera, utilizing then our flexible production system and supply chain.

尤其是在第一季，由於中東衝突，我們產生了一些額外成本，因為必須改道、調整運輸路線等等，並運用我們具彈性的生產系統與供應鏈。

So I think, yes, it has given some, but we have been able to make sure that we deliver to our customers, which is at the end of the day, most important for us.

所以我認為，是的，確實帶來了一些影響，但我們已經能確保把產品交付給客戶；而這在一天結束時，對我們來說是最重要的。

So I think, and that ties a little bit into your supply chain question there, we have a rather well distributed supply chain today to manage the services. We have proven that, I think, during the pandemic, we have proven that now during last year on the tariff side, et cetera.

所以我認為，這也與你關於供應鏈的問題有點相關：我們目前有相當分散的供應鏈來管理服務交付。我認為我們在疫情期間已經證明了這點；去年在關稅等議題上也證明了這點。

So we continuously work with this and try to mitigate when the things are happening. And of course, as we have said on the tariff side, we are, we cannot guarantee that we are immune, of course, but we are, I think, managing it pretty well.

因此我們持續在這方面努力，並在事件發生時嘗試降低影響。當然，正如我們在關稅方面所說，我們無法保證完全不受影響，但我認為我們管理得相當好。

The comment is also that we have a distribution hub in the Middle East. So we've been impacted for sure already and been able to mitigate that fully by leveraging the flexible supply chain. So I think this, we'll have to focus on managing and monitoring and managing it as well as we can.

另外補充一點：我們在中東有一個配送樞紐。所以我們確實已經受到影響，但也已透過運用具彈性的供應鏈，完全加以緩解。因此我認為，這件事我們必須專注於監控並盡可能妥善管理。

Daniel Djurberg at Handelsbanken.

Handelsbanken 的 Daniel Djurberg。

I know I should ask you a customer this and I will, but still, Latin America saw good growth in networks, and this is a geography with really tough competition. To me, your radio access network portfolio is more competitive to Pearson for many years, you showcased at Mobile Congress.

我知道我應該以客戶的角度問你這個問題，我也會問，但拉丁美洲的網路業務成長不錯，而這個地區競爭非常激烈。在我看來，你們的無線接取網（RAN）產品組合多年來相較於 Pearson 更具競爭力，你們也在世界行動通訊大會（Mobile Congress）上展示了。

And can you give, or obviously, can you give any examples of this, if it's correct? And how we should think about markets like Latin America, sub-Sahara, Eastern Europe, where you have tough Chinese competition?

如果這個判斷正確，你能否舉一些例子？以及我們應該如何看待像拉丁美洲、撒哈拉以南非洲、東歐這些市場——在那裡你們面臨強勁的中國競爭對手？

The, we get, it's a good question. And the reason I'm hesitating is more that we get into specific customer situations. And I don't want to talk about that for the simple reason that if I would be our customers, I wouldn't like us to talk about it because it may be my competitive positioning in the market that I'm revealing.

這——這是個好問題。我之所以猶豫，主要是因為這會牽涉到特定客戶的情境。我不想談這些，原因很簡單：如果我是我們的客戶，我也不希望我們談論，因為那可能會揭露我在市場上的競爭定位。

That's why I think it's inappropriate for us to talk about customers. But what I can say is that, we think our, the competitor, we have to always beat is one of the Chinese. They're, of course, very strong. I have no doubt about that.

所以我認為我們談客戶是不恰當的。但我能說的是，我們認為我們必須一直擊敗的競爭對手之一是中國廠商。他們當然非常強。我對此毫不懷疑。

But we can see that we can actually go head on with our product portfolio, thanks to the strong performance. The strong in-field performance we see on quality benchmarking when we compete with them, where we come out well.

但我們可以看到，憑藉強勁的效能，我們其實能用我們的產品組合正面迎戰。我們在與他們競爭時，從品質基準測試所看到的現場表現非常強，結果也相當不錯。

You can see that in all the, whether it's low test or open signal or whatever. We come out well in that comparison. We performed also very well on energy once you're in the field and it's because the way we have focused on developing the products, it's actually dedicated not to lab trials, but more to in-field performance.

你可以在各種——不論是 Ookla 的測試、OpenSignal 或其他——看到我們在比較中表現良好。在那樣的比較中我們表現不錯。一旦部署到現場，我們在能耗方面也表現非常好；這是因為我們在產品開發上的聚焦，其實不是為了實驗室測試，而是更著重於現場表現。

So operators that look at that total perspective, where we can compete, right? And we've seen that in Latin America, we see some, in Africa, is maybe the hardest market to compete.

所以對於從整體角度評估的電信營運商而言，我們是有競爭力的，對吧？我們在拉丁美洲看到了這點；而在非洲，可能是最難競爭的市場。

And you've seen us fight there. But at the end of the day, we remain competitive, and it depends on operator preferences as well. We certainly in Southeast Asia, win market share in, where we compete also with the Chinese competitors.

你也看到我們在那裡奮戰。但歸根結底，我們仍具競爭力，這也取決於營運商的偏好。我們在東南亞也確實贏得市占，在那裡我們同樣與中國競爭對手競爭。

So that comes to the end of the Q&A session. Thank you for joining us. Thanks, Borje and Lars.

以上就是問答環節的結束。感謝各位參與。謝謝 Borje 和 Lars。

Thank you.

謝謝。