Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (ERIC) 2026 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the presentation of Ericsson's second-quarter 2026 results.

各位好，歡迎參加愛立信（Ericsson）2026 年第二季業績簡報。

Joining us today, we have Börje Ekholm, our President and CEO, and Per Narvinger, Head of Networks, who will be assuming the CEO role in October, and a little later, Lars Sandström, our Chief Financial Officer, will also join us.

今天與會的有我們的總裁暨執行長 Börje Ekholm，以及網路事業負責人 Per Narvinger，他將於 10 月接任執行長一職；稍後，我們的財務長 Lars Sandström 也將加入。

(Event Instructions)

(活動說明)

Please be advised that today's call is being recorded and that today's presentation may include forward-looking statements. These statements are based on our current expectations and certain planning assumptions, which are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially due to factors mentioned in today's press release and discussed in the conference call. We encourage you to read about these risks and uncertainties in our earnings report, as well as in our annual report.

請注意，今天的電話會議將被錄音，且今天的簡報可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些陳述係基於我們目前的預期與若干規劃假設，並可能受到風險與不確定性影響。實際結果可能因今日新聞稿所提及並於電話會議中討論的因素而出現重大差異。我們建議您在我們的財報以及年報中閱讀相關風險與不確定性之說明。

I'll now hand the call over to Börje and Per for some introductory comments.

接下來我把電話交給 Börje 與 Per，請他們先做一些開場說明。

Thanks, Daniel, and good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us today.

謝謝你，Daniel。各位早安，也感謝大家今天加入我們。

But before we get into the quarter, I wanted to take a moment to talk about the leadership transition we announced in June. So after almost 10 years as CEO of Ericsson and actually 20 years as a member of the Board, this will be my last quarterly results call.

在進入本季內容之前，我想先花一點時間談談我們在 6 月宣布的領導交接。在擔任愛立信執行長將近 10 年、並且實際上擔任董事會成員 20 年之後，這將是我最後一次季度業績電話會議。

Since I stepped into the role in 2017, we've transformed Ericsson into a leader in our industry. I will always be proud of the progress Team Ericsson has made in strengthening our technology leadership, improving our operational execution, and positioning us for long-term success now that AI actually moves into the physical world, which I think will provide us with a lot of growth opportunities going forward.

自 2017 年我接任以來，我們已將愛立信轉型為產業領導者。我將永遠以 Team Ericsson 在強化技術領先、提升營運執行力、以及為長期成功奠定定位所取得的進展為榮；尤其在我看來，AI 正逐步進入實體世界，這將在未來為我們帶來許多成長機會。

I also want to express my gratitude to the Board, the leadership team, and all the colleagues in Team Ericsson. It's really the quality of our people that defines our success. It's been a privilege and honor to be a team member of Team Ericsson for the last almost 10 years.

我也要向董事會、領導團隊，以及 Team Ericsson 的所有同仁表達感謝。真正定義我們成功的，是我們人才的品質。在過去將近 10 年能成為 Team Ericsson 的一員，是我的榮幸與殊榮。

I'm also pleased to report to solid Q2, where we continue to execute against our operational and strategic priorities. We remain focused on serving our customers, strengthening our technology leadership, and driving disciplined execution across our business.

我也很高興報告第二季表現穩健，我們持續依照營運與策略優先事項推進執行。我們仍專注於服務客戶、強化技術領先地位，並在全公司推動嚴謹的執行。

But before going into some key takeaways from the quarter, I'd like to introduce Per Narvinger, who will be succeeding me as CEO, as Daniel said, and you all know, and he can join me today. Per has spent almost 30 years at Ericsson and brings a broad experience across the telco industry, but he's been in research, standardization, development, product management, and sales. He's led some of Ericsson's most important businesses, most recently, of course, Networks, but before that, leading the turnaround of Cloud Software and Services.

不過在談本季幾項重點結論之前，我想先介紹將接任我擔任執行長的 Per Narvinger，如 Daniel 所說、各位也都知道，他今天也與我一同出席。Per 在愛立信服務將近 30 年，具備橫跨電信產業的廣泛經驗，涵蓋研究、標準化、開發、產品管理與銷售。他領導過愛立信多項最重要的業務，最近當然是網路事業；在此之前，他也帶領雲端軟體與服務（Cloud Software and Services）完成轉型。

So I've had the privilege to work very closely with Per for many years now. And I've seen firsthand his deep understanding of our technology, our customers, and our industry. But what has actually impressed me is really his ability to execute. And yes, you can rest assured, he consistently delivers on what he says he will do. So simply put, he's an excellent choice to lead Ericsson into the next chapter. So over the next two, three months, Per and I will spend a lot of time together working closely to ensure a smooth transition.

我很榮幸多年來能與 Per 非常密切地合作。我親眼見證他對我們的技術、客戶與產業的深刻理解。但真正令我印象深刻的，是他卓越的執行能力。是的，各位可以放心，他一向能持續兌現自己所承諾要做到的事。簡而言之，他是帶領愛立信邁向下一個篇章的絕佳人選。因此在接下來兩到三個月，我與 Per 會花很多時間緊密合作，確保交接順利。

But please, Per, I'll leave the word over to you.

那麼，Per，接下來就交給你了。

Thank you, Börje. And it's, of course, a great honor to take over as the CEO of the company from October 1. As Börje says, I have been in the company in the industry for quite a few years. I truly enjoyed being back in the Networks business where I spent a lot of my career, so I was heading up the largest segment now for a year and a half.

謝謝你，Börje。能從 10 月 1 日起接任公司執行長，當然是莫大的榮幸。如 Börje 所說，我在公司與產業都已經有相當多年資歷。我非常享受回到網路事業，因為我職涯很大一部分都在這裡；過去一年半我也負責目前最大的業務部門。

I have to say, Börje, you handed me quite a challenge when we formed Cloud Software and Services. It's great to see that that business is now progressing. I think we are at a very interesting point in time now with AI really coming in a big way. Of course, how we build our products, how we deliver to our customers, and of course, all the traffic we're going to see on AI in our Networks.

我得說，Börje，當我們成立雲端軟體與服務（Cloud Software and Services）時，你交給我的是一個相當大的挑戰。很高興看到這項業務如今正在向前推進。我認為我們正處在一個非常有趣的時間點，AI 正以很大的規模進入。這當然會影響我們如何打造產品、如何交付給客戶，以及我們在網路中將看到的 AI 流量。

And I also have to say a big, big thank you to you, Börje. You're handing over a company in a very strong position, strong on the market position, strong in the portfolio. And it's truly been a privilege working with you, Börje, and great fun as well. And of course, you and I will now meet a lot of customer, partners to make sure we have a smooth transition here. And of course, I'm looking forward also to engaging with everyone in this forum going forward. So yes, thank you.

我也要對你說一聲非常、非常大的感謝，Börje。你交接給我的是一家處於非常強勢位置的公司：市場地位強、產品組合也強。能與你共事真的是一種榮幸，也非常愉快。當然，接下來你我也會與許多客戶與合作夥伴會面，確保交接順利。同時，我也期待未來能在這個場合與各位持續互動。所以，是的，謝謝你。

Yes, you'll a lot of exciting quarterly calls ahead of you. But thank you, Per.

是的，你前面還有很多令人期待的季度電話會議等著你。不過謝謝你，Per。

So Per, of course, has been part of my leadership team for many years. But I think it's fair to give him some time to chart out the strategy for the future. So he will not take part of the Q&A today and therefore save your questions for the future quarterly reports when he can talk much more about the future.

Per 當然已經在我的領導團隊中多年。但我認為也應該給他一些時間，去擘劃未來的策略。因此他今天不會參與問答環節，請各位把問題留到未來的季度報告，屆時他就能更深入談論未來。

But now let's look at today's results. I would say overall we executed well in the second quarter and we saw continued strong margin delivery. Looking at the top-line, we saw a 1% organic decline, but underlying, it's actually a slight growth if we adjust for the back royalty portion of the IPR settlement last year.

接下來我們來看今天的業績。我會說整體而言，我們在第二季執行得不錯，並且持續展現強勁的毛利率表現。從營收面來看，有機營收下滑 1%，但若調整去年 IPR 和解中追溯權利金（back royalty）部分的影響，基礎表現其實是小幅成長。

Gross margin came in at 48%, which is actually up 2 percentage points if we exclude the benefit from the one-off IPR settlement last year. EBITDA margin came in at 13.1%, which is in line with last year's results. All in all, these results demonstrate the strength of our portfolio, our disciplined execution, and how we strengthen the company operationally. The actions we've taken over the recent years have made Ericsson much more resilient and is actually enabling us to sustain healthy margins in varying market conditions.

毛利率為 48%；若排除去年一次性 IPR 和解帶來的利益，毛利率其實提高了 2 個百分點。EBITDA 利潤率為 13.1%，與去年結果一致。整體而言，這些結果展現了我們產品組合的實力、我們嚴謹的執行力，以及我們如何在營運面強化公司。過去幾年我們採取的行動，讓愛立信更具韌性，也使我們能在不同市場環境下維持健康的利潤率。

The external environment continues to be rather challenging as the AI boom is driving up component costs. So we are taking, I would say, two sorts of actions to mitigate this. First, we do some near-term adjustments, accelerating costs out, but we're also increasing sales with product substitutions or sales of additional products. But we're also starting to take longer-term structural actions, which of course include raising prices where appropriate. Of course, first step is to adjust on new tenders, but we're also implementing price increases with current customers.

外部環境仍相當具挑戰性，因為 AI 熱潮正在推升零組件成本。因此我們正採取我會說兩類行動來降低影響。第一，我們進行一些短期調整，加速降低成本；同時也透過產品替代或銷售額外產品來提升銷售。此外，我們也開始採取較長期的結構性措施，其中當然包括在適當情況下調漲價格。當然，第一步是在新的投標案中進行調整，但我們也正在對現有客戶實施價格調升。

So discussions to broaden price increases are ongoing, and we're also redesigning products. But all of these actions will help us mitigate longer-term effects from component inflation. While we're not immune to these external factors, we're in a strong position strategically and operationally. And to make sure that we keep this position, we're continuing to strengthen our technology leadership in our core mobile Networks business. This includes continued R&D investments in our leading high-performing programmable Networks.

因此，擴大調漲價格的討論仍在進行中，我們也正在重新設計產品。但所有這些行動將有助於我們緩解零組件通膨帶來的較長期影響。雖然我們無法完全免受這些外部因素影響，但在策略與營運上我們處於強勢地位。為了確保我們能維持這個地位，我們正持續強化在核心行動網路業務的技術領導力。這包括持續投入研發於我們領先的高效能可程式化網路。

But building on our strong position in mobile Networks, we're also pursuing a number of growth initiatives. Of course, this includes what we do on Enterprise with Enterprise connectivity, our API business Network-powered solutions, but also the growth opportunities in mission-critical Networks and different defense applications. And here we continue to see good progress.

但在我們於行動網路的強勢地位基礎上，我們也在推動多項成長計畫。當然，這包括我們在企業領域所做的事：企業連線、我們的 API 業務（以網路驅動的解決方案），以及在任務關鍵型網路與各類國防應用上的成長機會。在這些方面，我們持續看到良好進展。

Our strategy over the last few years has focused on positioning us for the next phase of AI adoption or the AI race. And that is when AI moves into the industrial and physical world. In this world, connectivity will be more important and uplink will dimension mobile Networks. But we will also see increasing demand of low latency. And actually this is what 5G was designed for. So I would say Ericsson today is well positioned to capture this next wave of AI-driven connectivity.

我們過去幾年的策略，聚焦於讓我們為下一階段的 AI 採用（或 AI 競賽）做好定位。也就是當 AI 進入工業與實體世界之時。在這個世界中，連線將更為重要，而上行將決定行動網路的容量維度。同時，我們也會看到對低延遲的需求日益增加。而事實上，這正是 5G 的設計初衷。因此我會說，Ericsson 今日已具備良好條件，能掌握這一波由 AI 驅動的連線浪潮。

With this, I'd like to leave the word over to Lars to go through some of the numbers more in detail.

接下來，我想把時間交給 Lars，請他更詳細地帶大家看一些數字。

All right. Thank you, Börje.

好的。謝謝你，Börje。

I will begin with some additional comments on the group before moving on to the segments.

我將先對集團補充一些評論，接著再談各個事業部門。

If you look at net sales in Q2, they totaled SEK52.7 billion with organic sales declining 1% year on year. Excluding the one-off IPR settlement in Q2 2025, organic sales grew by 1%.

如果看第二季的淨銷售額，合計為 527 億瑞典克朗（SEK），有機銷售額年減 1%。若排除 2025 年第二季一次性的 IPR 和解，有機銷售額則年增 1%。

Sales in all market areas grew with the exception of Americas, which reported a slight decline of 1%. In Americas, sales grew in Latin America, but were lower in North America, reflecting strong deliveries in the prior-year period.

除美洲外，所有市場區域的銷售額皆成長；美洲則小幅下滑 1%。在美洲，拉丁美洲銷售成長，但北美較低，反映去年同期交付強勁。

In the other market areas, sales were driven by Japan, India, the Middle East, and Africa.

在其他市場區域，銷售主要由日本、印度、中東與非洲所帶動。

Network sales declined in two of the four market areas. Network sales grew in Northeast Asia, driven by Japan and Southeast Asia, Oceania and India, driven by timing of deliveries in Southeast Asia.

網路（Network）銷售在四個市場區域中的兩個出現下滑。網路銷售在東北亞成長，主要由日本帶動；在東南亞、大洋洲與印度也成長，主要受東南亞交付時點影響。

Europe declined due to the completion of modernization projects in some markets, while Middle East and Africa grew.

歐洲因部分市場的現代化專案完成而下滑，而中東與非洲則成長。

North America declined, partly offset by higher sales in Latin America.

北美下滑，部分被拉丁美洲較高的銷售所抵銷。

For Cloud Software and Services, they grew in all market areas. Enterprise delivered its third quarter of organic growth.

雲端軟體與服務（Cloud Software and Services）在所有市場區域皆成長。企業（Enterprise）實現了連續第三季的有機成長。

Reported sales decreased by 6%, impacted by a negative currency effect of SEK1.8 billion. IPR revenues were SEK3.4 billion, down by SEK1.5 billion year over year. This was mainly due to the one-off settlement in Q2 2025. The current IPR run rate is approximately SEK13.5 billion, including the agreements signed in July 2026, which will benefit from Q3.

報告銷售額下降 6%，受到 18 億瑞典克朗的負面匯率影響。IPR收入為 34 億瑞典克朗，年減 15 億瑞典克朗。這主要是因為 2025 年第二季的一次性和解。目前 IPR 的年化運行水準約為 135 億瑞典克朗，包含 2026 年 7 月簽署的協議，該等協議將自第三季起帶來貢獻。

Adjusted gross income was SEK25.5 billion, with a negative currency impact of SEK0.8 billion. Adjusted gross margin was 48.4%, a slight increase from last year, with improvements in Networks and Cloud Software and Services.

調整後毛利為 255 億瑞典克朗，受到 8 億瑞典克朗的負面匯率影響。調整後毛利率為 48.4%，較去年小幅提升，主要來自 Networks 與 Cloud Software and Services 的改善。

On the cost side, operating expenses, excluding restructuring charges, dropped to SEK19 billion, around SEK1 billion lower year over year, driven by cost reductions, currency as well as the divestment of iconectiv.

在成本方面，營業費用（不含重組費用）降至 190 億瑞典克朗，較去年約減少 10 億瑞典克朗，主要由成本削減、匯率因素以及出售 iconectiv 所帶動。

Wage pressures continued to be offset by cost reductions, driven by headcount as well as efficiency measures. And there was limited financial impact in Q2 from the component prices, held by our resilient supply chain.

薪資壓力持續被成本削減所抵銷，成本削減來自人力規模以及效率措施。而在第二季，零組件價格對財務的影響有限，得益於我們具韌性的供應鏈。

The EBITDA margin was 13.1% in line with last year and adjusted EBITDA was SEK6.9 billion, down by SEK0.5 billion.

EBITDA 利潤率為 13.1%，與去年持平；調整後 EBITDA 為 69 億瑞典克朗，減少 5 億瑞典克朗。

EBITDA was impacted by a negative currency effect of SEK0.6 billion and Q2 2025 also benefited from the IPR settlement and included iconectiv. Excluding these, adjusted EBITDA would have improved by SEK1.8 billion.

EBITDA 受到 6 億瑞典克朗的負面匯率影響，而 2025 年第二季也受惠於 IPR 和解並且包含 iconectiv。若排除上述因素，調整後 EBITDA 將改善 18 億瑞典克朗。

Cash flow before M&A was SEK0.4 billion, driven by earnings and impacted by higher inventories. I will come back to this later.

併購（M&A）前現金流為 4 億瑞典克朗，由獲利帶動，但受到較高庫存的影響。我稍後會再回到這點。

So, let's move to the segments.

那麼，我們來看各個事業部門。

In Networks, reported sales decreased by 8% year on year to SEK33 billion with a negative currency impact of SEK1.2 billion. Organic sales decreased by 4%, mainly reflecting IPR one-offs last year.

在 Networks，報告銷售額年減 8% 至 330 億瑞典克朗，包含 12 億瑞典克朗的負面匯率影響。有機銷售額下降 4%，主要反映去年 IPR 的一次性項目。

Organic sales grew in Northeast Asia and Southeast Asia, Oceania and India, while sales declined in Europe, Middle East and Africa, and Americas.

有機銷售額在東北亞以及東南亞、大洋洲與印度成長；而在歐洲、中東與非洲，以及美洲則下滑。

Networks adjusted gross margin was 50.4%, stable compared to last quarter. And adjusted gross income decreased to SEK16.6 billion due to the lower sales and the negative currency impact.

Networks 的調整後毛利率為 50.4%，與上季持平。由於銷售較低及負面匯率影響，調整後毛利降至 166 億瑞典克朗。

Adjusted EBITDA was SEK5.8 billion, down from SEK6.5 billion last year, mainly impacted by a negative currency effect of SEK0.5 billion.

調整後 EBITDA 為 58 億瑞典克朗，低於去年 65 億瑞典克朗，主要受到 5 億瑞典克朗的負面匯率影響。

Adjusted EBITDA margin was 17.7%, down slightly year on year and this was partly due to the IPR one-off in Q2 last year and partly due to lower sales, including the negative FX impact.

調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 17.7%，年減小幅下滑，部分原因是去年第二季的 IPR 一次性項目，部分原因是銷售較低（包含負面匯率影響）。

Moving to segment Cloud Software and Services, reported sales increased by 3% to SEK14.7 billion, including a negative currency impact of SEK0.4 billion. Organically, sales grew by 5% with growth in all market areas. And growth was broad-based across the commodities.

接著看雲端軟體與服務（Cloud Software and Services）部門，報告銷售額成長 3% 至 147 億瑞典克朗，包含 4 億瑞典克朗的負面匯率影響。有機而言，銷售成長 5%，且所有市場區域皆成長。成長也廣泛分布於各項產品類別。

Adjusted gross margin came in at 44.1%, an improvement from 43.2% last year, supported by improved delivery efficiency. Adjusted gross income increased to SEK6.5 billion. Adjusted EBITDA increased to SEK1.8 billion with a margin of 14.2%. Lower operating expenses benefited from efficiencies and currency. And looking at the right-hand graph, the rolling four quarter adjusted gross margin was around 44% and adjusted EBITDA margin around 30%, a new high level.

調整後毛利率為 44.1%，較去年的 43.2% 改善，主要受惠於交付效率提升。調整後毛利增加至 65 億瑞典克朗。調整後 EBITDA 增加至 18 億瑞典克朗，利潤率為 14.2%。較低的營業費用受惠於效率提升與匯率因素。再看右側圖表，過去四季滾動的調整後毛利率約為 44%，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率約為 30%，達到新的高水準。

Then going to Enterprise, reported sales decreased by 19%, impacted by the sale of iconectiv and currency. On an organic basis, Enterprise grew by 3% with growth in Global Communications platform and Enterprise Wireless Solutions.

接著看 Enterprise，報告銷售額下降 19%，受到出售 iconectiv 與匯率影響。以有機基礎計，Enterprise 成長 3%，其中全球通訊平台（Global Communications platform）與企業無線解決方案（Enterprise Wireless Solutions）皆成長。

Adjusted gross margin declined to 50.9%, reflecting the impact of the divestment of iconectiv and the change in product mix.

調整後毛利率下降至 50.9%，反映出售 iconectiv 的影響以及產品組合變化。

Adjusted EBITDA landed at minus SEK0.8 billion, where the impact of the divestment of iconectiv was partly offset by cost reductions. EBITDA improved compared to Q1, benefiting from lower operating expenses. Q1 was also impacted by some small negative one-offs.

調整後 EBITDA 為負 8 億瑞典克朗，其中出售 iconectiv 的影響部分被成本削減所抵銷。相較第一季，EBITDA 有所改善，受惠於較低的營業費用。第一季也受到一些小型負面一次性項目的影響。

Turning to free cash flow, which was SEK0.4 billion before M&A in the quarter. Cash flow generation was supported by earnings, but impacted by increased operating net assets, mainly inventories.

談到自由現金流，本季在併購（M&A）前為瑞典克朗（SEK）4億。現金流的產生受到獲利支撐，但因營運淨資產增加而受到影響，主要是存貨。

As you might remember, we had a very strong Q1 due to a stronger-than-normal seasonal reduction in operating net assets. And in Q2, we had a build-up in inventories, in part preparing for planned Q3 delivery. We delivered a cash flow to net sales of 12% for the rolling four quarters at the upper end of our 9% to 12% target.

如你可能記得，我們第一季表現非常強勁，原因是營運淨資產出現較正常季節性更強的下降。而在第二季，我們增加了存貨，部分是為了準備第三季計畫中的交付。在過去四個季度的滾動基礎上，我們的現金流對淨銷售比率為12%，位於我們9%至12%目標區間的上緣。

Net cash decreased sequentially by SEK8.3 billion to SEK59.8 billion, reflecting dividend payments and share repurchase.

淨現金較前一季減少瑞典克朗（SEK）83億至瑞典克朗（SEK）598億，反映股利支付與庫藏股回購。

Next, I will cover the outlook.

接下來，我將說明展望。

Global uncertainty remains elevated given the broad geopolitical and macroeconomic environment, including the global semiconductor situation. As mentioned last quarter, we are not immune to these disturbances. As a matter of fact, input costs increased further in Q2. The financial impact from this will start to build up gradually in the coming quarters. We are taking near-term actions across the businesses, including commercial measures, for example, product substitution as well as supply chain actions and targeted cost initiatives.

在廣泛的地緣政治與總體經濟環境下（包括全球半導體情勢），全球不確定性仍然偏高。如上季所提，我們也無法免於這些干擾。事實上，第二季投入成本進一步上升。其財務影響將在未來幾季逐步累積。我們正於各業務採取短期行動，包括商業措施（例如產品替代）、以及供應鏈行動與具針對性的成本措施。

At the same time, we are starting to implement longer-term structural actions that will be needed to more sustainably offset these impacts. We are adjusting pricing in current tenders and discussions to broaden price increases with current customers are continuing, as Börje already mentioned.

同時，我們也開始推動較長期的結構性行動，以更可持續地抵銷這些影響。我們正在調整目前投標案中的定價，並且如Börje先前提到的，與現有客戶擴大漲價的討論仍在持續。

Turning to the Q3 outlook then.

接著談第三季展望。

The outlook assumes the exchange rate specified in the report and for Networks, we expect sales growth to be above the three-year average quarter-on-quarter seasonality. For Cloud Software and Services, we expect sales growth to be broadly similar to the three-year average quarter-on-quarter seasonality. We expect Networks adjusted gross margin to be in the range of 48% to 50%, down slightly compared to Q2 due to a change in mix. We expect also a higher share of Networks rollout projects in Q3. Restructuring charges for 2026 are expected to be at an elevated level, with a fairly large part already seen in the first half.

展望假設採用報告中所指定的匯率；在網路（Networks）方面，我們預期銷售成長將高於過去三年平均的季對季季節性水準。在雲端軟體與服務（Cloud Software and Services）方面，我們預期銷售成長大致與過去三年平均的季對季季節性水準相近。我們預期網路（Networks）調整後毛利率將落在48%至50%區間，因產品組合變化，較第二季略為下降。我們也預期第三季網路（Networks）建置（rollout）專案占比將更高。預期2026年的重組費用將維持在較高水準，其中相當大一部分已在上半年反映。

With that, I hand back to you, Börje.

接下來交還給你，Börje。

Thanks, Lars.

謝謝，Lars。

So, Ericsson enters the future from a position of strength. With the external environment continuing to be challenging, I'm very happy that Ericsson today is in a great spot and leading the industry in the AI era. The next phase of AI will require high-performing mobile connectivity to scale. We expect this to be a key driver for our industry over time. With our leading portfolio, Ericsson is well positioned to capitalize on this future and this future development.

因此，愛立信（Ericsson）將以強勢的姿態邁向未來。在外部環境持續充滿挑戰之際，我非常高興愛立信今天處於非常有利的位置，並在AI時代引領產業。AI的下一階段要能擴大規模，將需要高效能的行動連線能力。我們預期這將隨時間成為推動本產業的關鍵驅動力。憑藉我們領先的產品組合，愛立信已做好準備，把握這個未來以及這項未來發展。

I believe this is an exciting time that can bring Ericsson back to growth. As this is my last earnings call as CEO of Ericsson and possibly the last as a CEO, I'd like to thank all our customers. Ericsson has long believed that connectivity is a basic human need, and together with you, our customers and partners, we've continued to expand mobile connectivity and continue to create opportunities for people throughout the world. This is an amazing achievement and something we should all be really proud of.

我相信這是一個令人振奮的時刻，能讓愛立信重回成長。由於這是我以愛立信CEO身分參與的最後一次財報電話會議，也可能是我最後一次以CEO身分參與，我想感謝所有客戶。愛立信長期以來相信連線是一項基本人類需求；與各位客戶與合作夥伴一起，我們持續擴大行動連線，並持續為全球各地的人們創造機會。這是一項了不起的成就，也是我們都應該深感自豪的事。

Finally, I'd like to give a big thank you to all my Ericsson colleagues. You are all the reason to why Ericsson today is leading the industry. You're truly amazing and have made these years so rewarding. Thank you, team.

最後，我想向所有愛立信同仁致上衷心的感謝。正是因為你們，愛立信今天才能引領產業。你們真的非常了不起，也讓這些年變得如此值得。謝謝你們，團隊。

With this, I believe it's time to move on to some final, for me at least, Q&A.

接下來，我想也該進入最後的——至少對我而言——問答環節了。

(Event Instructions)

（活動說明）

Simon Granath, ABG.

Simon Granath，ABG。

Initially, just congrats on a very successful career at Ericsson, Börje, best of luck in the future.

首先，恭喜你在愛立信有非常成功的職涯，Börje，也祝你未來一切順利。

On to my question, which is a bit broader, I have been in detail tracking your mobility report and note that you have finally made some positive revisions on data traffic estimates after several years of downgrades.

回到我的問題，這題比較宏觀一些。我一直在詳細追蹤你們的《行動性報告》（mobility report），並注意到在經過數年下修之後，你們終於對數據流量的估計做出一些正向修正。

Could you give us your perspective of demand for RAN in light of this, balancing it with the introduction of uplink-related applications and also the fact that Dell'Oro still only expects the market to grow 1% per year for the foreseeable future. Is the latter conservative in your view?

能否請你談談在此背景下對RAN需求的看法：一方面要平衡上行（uplink）相關應用的導入，另一方面Dell'Oro仍預期在可預見的未來市場每年僅成長1%。你認為後者是否過於保守？

Yeah, thanks, Simon, first of all.

好的，謝謝你，Simon，首先。

No, it's a good question. We're doing the revisions because what we are starting to see is a emerging demand for uplink. That is, we don't really -- I can't really point to exactly what type of applications. It's a broad base. It's really starting to see that the demand for AI is starting to shape traffic. That's why I think there is an upside case here, which will be much more positive for our industry when uplink becomes what dimensions the Networks going forward.

不，這是個好問題。我們之所以做出修正，是因為我們開始看到上行需求正在浮現。也就是說，我們並沒有——我也很難明確指出究竟是哪一類應用。它是很廣泛的基礎。我們確實開始看到AI需求正在塑造流量型態。因此我認為這裡存在上行的可能性；當上行成為未來網路（Networks）規模與維度的關鍵時，對我們產業將會更為正面。

So I think there is a real case to start to be a bit more optimistic about our industry and the RAN market. At the same time, I want to also say when we plan and for our own planning perspective, we like to think it is rather flattish because when the demand happens, we need to make sure that we have the right products, the right cost structure, and not kind of build on speculation in advance of that happening.

所以我認為，確實有理由開始對我們的產業與RAN市場抱持更樂觀一些的看法。同時我也想說，從我們規劃、以及自身規劃的角度，我們仍傾向把它視為相對持平，因為當需求真正發生時，我們必須確保具備正確的產品、正確的成本結構，而不是在事情發生之前就基於推測提前擴張。

So when you ask the question, yes, I'm personally very excited about that future, but I want us also to be disciplined in the way we execute and the way we plan our cost structure. And therefore, we're cautious. So I think when you look out in a few years' time, it's going to be better to take this discussion. The purchase decisions ultimately will be in the hands of our customers. But when they see the demand happening, I also think they will start to buy. But until then, let's continue to plan for a flattish market.

所以當你問這個問題時，是的，我個人對那樣的未來非常興奮，但我也希望我們在執行方式與成本結構規劃上保持紀律。因此，我們會謹慎。我認為再過幾年，會更適合來討論這件事。最終的採購決策會掌握在客戶手中。但當他們看到需求正在發生時，我也認為他們會開始採購。但在那之前，我們仍將以市場持平來持續規劃。

Erik Lindholm-Röjestål, SEB.

Erik Lindholm-RöjestÃ¥l，SEB。

So I'll start with perhaps a question on GPUs in the radio units. It's been a hot topic recently. NVIDIA revealed its entry into this area, and you obviously operate mainly on Ericsson Silicon, which is purpose-built. Can you elaborate a bit perhaps on the benefits and the possible risks of going with purpose-built and how capable do you think GPUs are as an option in radio units? Thanks.

我先從無線電單元（radio units）中的GPU這個問題開始。這最近是個熱門話題。NVIDIA揭露其將進入這個領域，而你們顯然主要採用專為此打造的Ericsson Silicon。你能否進一步說明採用專用晶片（purpose-built）的優勢與可能風險？以及你認為GPU作為無線電單元選項的能力如何？謝謝。

I think, first of all, it's actually, in a way, confirmation of the importance of AI in the RAN, right, that we start to see other players wanting to enter here with GPUs. I think it kind of confirms what we have been talking about for quite some time that AI will be what drives the Networks going forward.

我認為，首先，這在某種程度上其實是對AI在RAN中重要性的確認，對吧——我們開始看到其他業者想帶著GPU進入這個領域。我認為這某種程度上也印證了我們談了相當一段時間的觀點：AI將是推動未來網路（Networks）發展的力量。

So we have picked a strategy of being, in that sense, agnostic from a hardware point of view. So we can run our RAN stack on so being an x86 or a GPU or our purpose-built silicon. And when we look at what you need in the radio, it's of course, in reality, very high performance, very energy efficient, and it's a lot of calculations and a very demanding compute environment.

因此，我們選擇了一種策略：從硬體角度來看，在這個意義上保持中立（agnostic）。因此，我們可以在 x86、GPU 或我們自研的專用矽晶片上運行我們的 RAN 堆疊。而當我們看無線電端需要什麼時，當然，實際上它需要非常高的效能、非常高的能源效率，並且涉及大量計算，是一個要求很高的運算環境。

At the same time, it's actually not a need for very large models. So where this market is going to end up is always a bit uncertain, but we see a demand for that compute in the radio going forward that we can offer with the purpose-built. But then, as I said, our RAN stack is agnostic, so we can be on what type of infrastructure ultimately wins.

同時，實際上並不需要非常大型的模型。因此，這個市場最終會走向哪裡總是有點不確定，但我們看到未來在無線電端對運算能力的需求會持續存在，而這部分我們可以透過專用方案來提供。但如我所說，我們的 RAN 堆疊是中立的，因此最終無論哪一種基礎設施勝出，我們都能部署其上。

So it's actually not an either/or question. We are simply saying, let's see where the market shapes up. Today, there are clear performance benefits in the purpose-built. You see that on cost, you see it on energy efficiency, you see it on performance in field. So there is no doubt there is room for the purpose-built and then how it's going to look like over time. We are not going to place the bets yet. We're simply keeping that an open topic.

所以這其實不是非此即彼的問題。我們只是說，讓我們看看市場會如何成形。就目前而言，專用方案在效能上有明顯優勢。你可以在成本上看到、在能源效率上看到、也能在現場表現的效能上看到。因此毫無疑問，專用方案有其空間，而接下來隨時間推移會變成什麼樣子。我們還不會現在就押注。我們只是把這個議題保持開放。

What I think is an important element in your comment is actually the deployment of AI in the RAN. That is of course going to be really important and we are determined to lead. You saw us announce at Mobile World Congress a couple of applications where we use AI in the radio as well. So I'm convinced we are at the beginning of that journey and we are determined to lead like we are today.

我認為你評論中一個重要元素，其實是 AI 在 RAN 中的部署。那當然會非常重要，而我們決心要領先。你們也看到我們在世界行動通訊大會（Mobile World Congress）上宣布了幾個應用，我們也在無線電端使用 AI。所以我相信我們正處於這段旅程的起點，而我們決心像今天一樣保持領先。

All right. Thank you and good luck on your future endeavors.

好的。謝謝你，祝你未來一切順利。

Sebastien Sztabowicz, Kepler Chevreux.

Sebastien Sztabowicz，Kepler Chevreux。

Could you please quantify the component cost inflation impact on your net world gross margin for this year? What do you expect in terms of impact? And regarding the price increase, what has been done already? Have you been already able to renegotiate some existing contract with higher prices. Thanks a lot. Thank you.

請問你們能否量化今年元件成本通膨對你們網路業務（Networks）毛利率的影響？你們預期影響會是什麼程度？另外關於漲價，已經做了哪些動作？你們是否已經能夠就部分既有合約重新談判、以更高價格續行？非常感謝。謝謝。

Maybe, Börje, starting with you with the discussions and then, Lars, the final (multiple speakers) --

也許先請 Börje 你談談相關討論，然後 Lars 再做最後的——(多位講者)——

I can take the latter part. Yes, we have done that. It's not the impact in Q2, but it will gradually be visible, those type of renegotiations. Of course, I think it's also important to remember we have rather long-term contracts in the industry. So when you enter into these type of discussions, you need to be thoughtful as well. So it takes a bit of time.

我可以回答後半段。是的，我們已經做了。這在第二季不會反映出影響，但這類重新談判會逐步變得可見。當然，我也認為重要的是要記得，這個產業的合約通常相當長期。因此當你進入這類討論時，也需要審慎。所以會需要一些時間。

But where we have done it. We're actually seeing that customers also understand that we need to find ways to share the burden of the industry if this industry will be competitive going forward. So I actually think we have the opportunity ahead of us here to do more. And we, of course, take all the other actions, product substitutions, make sure that we design products in a -- call it -- a way that minimizes the cost of inflation. So we're trying to do all this.

但在我們已經做的地方，我們其實看到客戶也理解：如果這個產業未來要保持競爭力，我們需要找到方法共同分擔產業的負擔。所以我確實認為，我們接下來還有機會做得更多。而且我們當然也採取其他行動，例如產品替代，並確保我們以——可以說——能把通膨成本影響降到最低的方式來設計產品。所以我們正嘗試把這些都做起來。

I think we're not going to be immune. We weren't immune from tariffs either about a little more than a year ago, but you also know that it didn't at the end of the day impact, can't guarantee that now. But I think we see a lot of mitigating actions that will help us position us well for the future. But maybe you want to take the details?

我認為我們不可能完全不受影響。大約一年多前，我們也沒有對關稅免疫，但你們也知道，最終它並沒有造成影響——我現在不能保證這次也會如此。但我認為我們看到許多緩解措施，將有助於我們為未來做好定位。不過也許你想補充細節？

I think when it comes to the cost impact, we don't share that kind of details. But as we said, already coming out of Q1, we will see gradual impact during the second half and into next year. And we are doing mitigation activities already now, so how big the impact will be depends on a little bit the phasing of the cost increases that are coming and the phasing on the mitigating activities, we can do quite a bit in short term. But then in the longer term, it's really about how we cannot take this all alone. It's really on what we can do together with customers here and to really ensure we get the best performing solution to the customers, but also at the right price point.

我想在成本影響方面，我們不會分享那類細節。但如我們所說，從第一季結束後開始，我們會在下半年以及延伸到明年逐步看到影響。而我們現在就已經在做緩解活動，因此影響會有多大，部分取決於即將到來的成本上升的節奏，以及我們能採取的緩解活動的節奏；短期內我們可以做不少。但從較長期來看，重點在於我們不可能獨自承擔全部。關鍵在於我們能與客戶一起做什麼，確保為客戶提供效能最佳的解決方案，同時也在合適的價格水準上。

Okay, thank you. And congrats, Börje, for all your career at Ericsson.

好的，謝謝。也恭喜你，Börje，在愛立信的整個職涯。

Andreas Joelsson, DnB Carnegie.

Andreas Joelsson，DnB Carnegie。

First of all, Börje, congratulations. And also, I know you will miss these calls tremendously, but we're only a phone call away if you want further questions (laughter).

首先，Börje，恭喜。另外，我知道你會非常想念這些電話會議，但如果你還想被追問，我們隨時一通電話就到(笑聲)。

And secondly, further on the gross margin and the other side of the equation, the volumes that you see will increase going forward. How should we see those rollout projects? Will they be for longer and therefore have an impact on the gross margin for longer? What's the pattern usually look like in situations like this? Thanks.

第二點，延伸到毛利率以及等式的另一端：你們看到未來出貨量會增加。我們應該如何看待這些佈建（rollout）專案？它們會不會持續更久，因此對毛利率造成更長時間的影響？在這種情況下，通常的模式是什麼？謝謝。

Thanks, Andreas. Yeah, I will truly miss the questions. But I try to fill my time with something else instead, so I'll figure out if it's equally rewarding, let's put it that way. That will be hard to beat, but anyhow, it's a good question.

謝謝你，Andreas。是的，我真的會想念這些問題。但我會試著用其他事情把時間填滿，所以我會看看是否同樣有收穫，就這麼說吧。那會很難超越，但不管怎樣，這是個好問題。

When there isn't really a typical project, to be honest, but if you want to kind of generalize a bit. What we see in rollout projects is the first few quarters tend to be the most challenging. And after that, it gradually recovers to be quite good after a period of time.

坦白說，並沒有真正所謂典型的專案，但如果要稍微概括一下。我們在佈建專案中看到的是，前幾個季度往往最具挑戰。之後，經過一段時間會逐步回升，並變得相當不錯。

That's what we have seen every time. We have those type of contracts. Then the exactly how the impact is varies. Sometimes the initial is actually negative. Sometimes it's just less positive below group average margin, so to say. But it's not that we take contracts which are -- we're very disciplined in taking contracts that are, I call them, accretive over time. That means, it's challenging in the beginning but better over time.

這是我們每次都看到的情況。我們有這類合約。而實際影響到底如何會有所不同。有時一開始其實是負面的。有時只是沒那麼正面、也就是低於集團平均毛利率，這麼說吧。但我們不會簽那種——我們在簽約上非常自律，我稱之為隨時間推移具增益（accretive）的合約。也就是說，一開始具挑戰，但之後會變得更好。

So we don't guide per se on margins year out, right? So that's on that purpose. So that's why we guide per quarter and we see this impact in the third quarter. Of course, you also should expect bigger volumes. So when you look at the numbers, you have to play a little bit yourself there, but it's -- I feel quite good about the volume and then it will be a bit more challenging short term on margins.

因此我們不會逐年去指引毛利率，對吧？這是刻意如此。所以我們才會按季度提供指引，而我們會在第三季看到這個影響。當然，你們也應該預期更大的出貨量。所以當你看這些數字時，需要自己稍微推算一下，但——我對出貨量感覺相當不錯，只是短期內毛利率會更具挑戰。

Richard Kramer, Arete.

Richard Kramer，Arete。

And Börje, I'm not sure you're going to miss this question, but if we just focus on measures of shareholder value creation, I'm sure you'd benchmark yourself against really the leading global tech companies and since 2017, Ericsson's underperformed the Nasdaq-100 by 67% and also underperformed common equipment indices.

另外，Börje，我不確定你會不會錯過這個問題，但如果我們只聚焦在股東價值創造的衡量指標上，我相信你會把自己拿來和全球領先的科技公司做基準比較；而自2017年以來，愛立信相較那斯達克100指數落後了67%，也同樣落後於一般的設備類指數。

And you've taken SEK30 billion restructuring charges and about SEK60 billion of write-offs. Given Ericsson's continued reliance now on telcos for the vast majority of sales, do you think you could have been bolder in efforts to shift focus, for example, towards the massive investment boom which we see happening now in data center builds? And is there anything you think in terms of the strategy you might adjust so that you could tap into this huge wave of spending? Thanks.

而你們已經提列了300億瑞典克朗的重組費用，以及約600億瑞典克朗的減記。鑑於愛立信目前仍在絕大多數銷售上依賴電信業者，你是否認為你們本可以在轉移重心的努力上更大膽一些，例如轉向我們現在看到資料中心建置所帶動的龐大投資熱潮？另外，就策略而言，你是否認為有任何需要調整之處，讓你們能夠切入這一波巨大的支出浪潮？謝謝。

No, I think it's a great question, Richard, and for sure, it's a relevant question, fair to ask.

不，我認為這是個很好的問題，Richard，而且毫無疑問，這是個相關且合理的提問。

I think we have elected to be in a different part of the value chain for AI. And really where you see the big performance elsewhere is actually AI driven. I think the next phase of AI is actually going to benefit our industry quite substantially. So I think it's a bit too early to decide where we are on that journey when you're kind of before really rolling out AI into the mass applications.

我認為我們選擇站在AI價值鏈的不同環節。而你在其他地方看到的巨大表現，其實是由AI所驅動的。我認為AI的下一個階段，實際上將會相當程度地讓我們這個產業受益。所以我覺得現在還太早去判斷我們在這段旅程中的位置，因為你們其實是在AI真正大規模導入應用之前的階段。

So do I think we could have done differently? Yeah, for sure we could have. So that is any other answer would be, I think, inaccurate. So that we could for sure have done. But I think we're also done what we can to position the strength of Ericsson in the best possible way where the market will be in the future. And we are convinced that we will see AI move into distributed applications. Call it, it's going to be anything from, of course, glasses, it's going to be humanoids, it's going to be robots.

所以你問我是否覺得我們可以做得不一樣？是的，當然可以。如果給出其他答案，我認為反而不準確。所以我們確實可以做得不同。但我也認為，我們已經盡我們所能，以最佳方式去定位愛立信的優勢，面向未來市場所在之處。而我們相信，AI將會走向分散式應用。你可以這麼稱呼它：它會是從眼鏡開始，會是人形機器人，也會是各式機器人。

And when you start to see that, you will demand mobile connectivity and you will start to demand high-performance mobile connectivity with solid indoor coverage and with high uplinks. That's where we exactly have invested. So let's see where the physical AI develops in the future, that's when I think you'll see where we have a chance to outperform and that's what we try to position ourselves for.

而當你開始看到那樣的發展，你就會需要行動連線，並且會開始需要高效能的行動連線，具備穩固的室內覆蓋，以及高上行能力。這正是我們投資的方向。所以讓我們看看「實體AI」未來會如何發展；到那時，我認為你就會看到我們有機會超越同業，而這也正是我們試圖為自己所做的定位。

Okay, thanks and good luck.

好的，謝謝，祝你好運。

Francois-Xavier Bouvignies, UBS.

Francois-Xavier Bouvignies，瑞銀（UBS）。

Thank you very much, and good luck for Börje as well.

非常感謝，也祝Börje好運。

Just a quick question on the cost margin again. I think you mentioned in Q3 that you will have a mixed rollout impact on the gross margin. And I thought in the past that you did actually a very good work on the mixed side rollout versus non-rollout, that the gross margin actually is not that impactful. We have seen that during AT&T rollout phase. We didn't see much impact there. So why is it different this time that the rollout is dilutive again, at least on the gross margin side?

再快速問一個關於成本毛利的問題。我記得你們在第三季提到，產品組合與專案推進（rollout）的組合會對毛利率造成影響。而我過去的理解是，你們其實在「推進」與「非推進」的組合管理上做得很好，毛利率並不會受到太大影響。我們在AT&T推進階段也看到了這點。當時並沒有看到太多影響。那為什麼這次不同，推進又再次稀釋（dilutive）毛利率，至少在毛利率層面是如此？

And as we look into your price actions or maybe your component cost, can you give more details on how much is the pressure on your cost that we see happening? And is it fair to say that this pressure is more from Q4 onwards because Q3, you don't talk about inflation impact, it's more the rollout mix?

另外，從你們的價格措施或可能的零組件成本來看，你能否更詳細說明我們看到的成本壓力到底有多大？而是否可以說，這個壓力更多是從第四季之後開始，因為第三季你們並沒有談到通膨影響，更多是推進組合的因素？

Thank you.

謝謝。

I can just start on the rollout question.

我先從推進（rollout）這個問題開始回答。

The reality is we're in the project business, quarterly it shifts a bit all the time, right? It's a bit larger portion rollout projects during Q3 that impacts margins. So that's what we're guiding for and that will periodically happen. I think when you look at our track record over time, as you note, it's -- we've been able to manage across geographic mix. That's actually been our focus to reduce the dependence on geographic mix.

現實是，我們是在做專案型業務，每一季都會有些變動，對吧？第三季推進專案的占比稍微高一些，這會影響毛利率。所以這就是我們所做的指引，而這種情況會週期性地發生。我想當你回顧我們長期的表現，如你所提到的，我們一直能夠跨不同地理區域組合來管理。這其實一直是我們的重點：降低對地理區域組合的依賴。

But we have always said we have a mixed dependence on products. So of course, it's very different if we sell software versus if we sell services for a rollout project. That's going to be different and that's what you see impact in Q3. So it's actually less geographic dependence that we've taken away, but the product dependent and product mix dependence that we will not be able to take away because it's simply lower margin structurally on services than it is on software.

但我們也一直說，我們對產品組合仍有一定依賴。所以，若我們賣的是軟體，和我們在推進專案中賣的是服務，當然差異很大。這會不同，而你在第三季看到的影響就是這個。因此，我們降低的是地理區域依賴，但產品依賴與產品組合依賴我們無法消除，因為服務的結構性毛利率本來就比軟體低。

I think when it comes to impact from cost, we will see some already in Q2, but as we said there on the mitigating activities, we see that those will -- we will have those supporting offsetting that during the third quarter. Then it's a bit it is an increase in cost pressure that we have.

至於成本的影響，我們在第二季就已經看到一些，但如同我們提到的緩解措施，我們預期這些措施會在第三季提供支撐、形成抵銷。接著，成本壓力會有所增加。

So that will of course have put a bit pressure more going coming out of the year and into next year and there the activities that we are doing will take a bit the short term they will work with and the longer terms that we will see how that plays out. It's really on the discussions that we have in negotiations that we will have towards customers as well. So that's why it's a bit different in the facing.

因此，這當然會在今年年底以及進入明年時帶來更大的壓力；而我們正在做的各項措施，短期會先發揮作用，長期則要看後續如何演變。這也很大程度取決於我們與客戶之間的討論與談判進展。所以在時間節奏上會有些不同。

Jakob Bluestone, BNP.

Jakob Bluestone，法國巴黎銀行（BNP）。

Thanks, Daniel, and congrats and best wishes, Börje, as well.

謝謝你，Daniel，也恭喜你，並同樣祝Börje一切順利。

Just to stay on the topic of the memory cost inflation, can you maybe just explain to us what is actually the mechanism in your current contracts passing on price inflation? So do you have automatic pass-through or do you have to go back and renegotiate every contract individually just to help us understand what's actually in your current contracts for?

延續記憶體成本通膨這個主題，你能否向我們解釋一下，你們目前合約中將價格通膨轉嫁出去的機制到底是什麼？也就是說，你們有自動轉嫁（pass-through）機制嗎？還是必須回頭逐一重新談判每一份合約？只是想幫助我們理解你們現行合約裡實際是怎麼規定的。

We've been very clear on this over time, Jakob, that we don't have automatic pass-throughs. And the reason why our contracts are not designed that way is actually that they are rather long-term. And, there are not a -- just because the contract is long term doesn't mean it's exactly the same products being shipped the whole time.

Jakob，我們一直以來都很清楚地說，我們沒有自動轉嫁機制。而我們的合約之所以不是那樣設計，原因在於它們通常是相當長期的。而且，合約是長期的，並不代表整段期間出貨的產品完全相同。

So it would simply not be workable to have those type of adjustments in there. So that's why the contracts don't typically not include that. Some do, but that's typically very small and much shorter-term contracts. So there is nothing automatically in this. That's why we talk about the mitigating actions.

所以把那類調整機制寫進去，實務上根本不可行。因此合約通常不會包含這種條款。有些合約會有，但通常是占比很小、且期限更短的合約。所以這方面沒有任何自動機制。這也是為什麼我們會談到緩解措施。

And you see us take that on a cost side. We take it on product substitution, we take it on new product introduction and we of course take it on price increases. Some parties renegotiation, we've done that successfully already. We know it can be done, so we're going to continue with that. We also change the prices of course in tenders we enter into. So overall, we're not immune even though we don't have it written into the contract. But we also know that we're able to mitigate the large part by taking those type of actions. Is it easy? No, it's not. But it shows also our performance that it actually can be done.

而你也看到我們在成本端採取行動。我們透過產品替代、透過新產品導入，當然也透過提價來因應。部分情況下我們會重新談判，我們已經成功做過了。我們知道這是做得到的，所以會持續推進。此外，我們在參與投標時也會調整報價。所以整體而言，即便合約裡沒有寫自動轉嫁，我們也不是完全沒有因應能力。但我們也知道，透過這類行動，我們能夠緩解很大一部分影響。容易嗎？不，並不容易。但這也顯示了我們的執行表現：這確實是可以做到的。

Understood. Thank you and best wishes.

了解。謝謝，並致上最誠摯的祝福。

Daniel Djurberg, Handelsbanken.

Daniel Djurberg，Handelsbanken。

Thank you, Daniel, and good morning, Börje and Lars. And Börje, thanks for a great contribution and all good meetings during the years. And if you really missed the (inaudible) discussions, you're always back. Welcome back to (inaudible) where I have a newly refurbished department available (laughter).

謝謝你，Daniel，早安，Börje 和 Lars。Börje，也感謝你多年來的卓越貢獻以及所有愉快的會面。如果你真的想念那些（聽不清）討論，你隨時都可以回來。歡迎回到（聽不清），我這裡有一個剛翻新好的部門可供你使用（笑聲）。

Nevertheless, I'll go first to or would like to ask on the Networks gross margin and the guidance here for [SEK8.50 billion], which in my view wouldn't be a bad number given what you talked about here on rollouts and on price inflation and so on, but we also know that you have some kind of IPR catch up from transition here in Q3. So I guess some of the uncertainties today is based on this, how is this impacting this guidance? So should we be even more conservative after this or given that there is some impact from transition in this?

不過，我先問一下 Networks 的毛利率，以及你們對於[SEK8.50 billion]的指引；以你們剛才談到的部署（rollouts）、價格通膨等等來看，我認為這個數字並不差，但我們也知道你們在第三季有某種因轉換而來的 IPR 追補。所以我想今天的一些不確定性是基於這點：這對這項指引的影響是什麼？那麼，我們是否應該因此更保守一些，或是說這裡確實有一些來自轉換的影響？

Not to comment explicitly on transition, Daniel, but I would say it's a marginal impact from that. So that has not been assumed to be a positive contributor during Q3. And it all -- these type of contracts on the IPR depends on exactly how they look like. I think the key here is the agreement we strike kind of increases the value. So we're at SEK13.5 billion run rate now. So that's the most important part, the positions, the value of our IPR portfolio for the future, but the contribution from -- is actually marginal during Q3. Otherwise, I may take you up on the coffee in (inaudible).

Daniel，我不會就轉換（transition）做明確評論，但我會說它的影響很有限。因此，第三季並未假設它會成為正向貢獻。而且這類 IPR 合約取決於其具體條款長什麼樣。我認為關鍵在於我們達成的協議會提升價值。我們目前的年化運行率（run rate）是 SEK13.5 billion。所以最重要的是未來我們 IPR 組合的定位與價值，但第三季的貢獻其實很小。另外，我可能會接受你在（聽不清）請喝咖啡的邀請。

Sandeep Deshpande, JPMorgan.

Sandeep Deshpande，JPMorgan。

Hi, thank you for letting me on and all the best for your future endeavors, Börje.

嗨，謝謝讓我加入，也祝福你未來一切順利，Börje。

Just a quick question on the Enterprise business of Ericsson. I mean, over the last five years, this business has consistently been loss-making. Is there a time horizon over which the intention of companies to make this business profitable because it has on average been 10% impact on your EBITDA reported for the year. So it has been a consistent negative. So will this change in the next few years?

我想快速問一下 Ericsson 的 Enterprise 業務。我的意思是，過去五年這項業務一直在虧損。公司是否有一個時間範圍，打算讓這項業務轉為獲利？因為平均而言，它對你們年度揭露的 EBITDA 造成約 10% 的影響。所以它一直是持續的負面因素。那麼，未來幾年會改變嗎？

It will. The answer, Sandeep, is, of course, it cannot be consistently loss-making. Instead, it has to be value accretive to the group and we clearly have a plan in place that we're executing upon. It comes from a couple of elements and you already now start to see our Wireless WAN business to actually contribute, not to reported numbers, but the way we see sales growth on bookings, et cetera, it's actually quite positive.

會的。Sandeep，答案當然是：它不可能一直虧損。相反地，它必須為集團帶來增值（value accretive），而我們確實有一個正在執行的計畫。這來自幾個要素，而且你現在已開始看到我們的 Wireless WAN 業務實際上在貢獻；雖然未必反映在已揭露的數字上，但從我們看到的訂單（bookings）等銷售成長來看，其實相當正面。

The challenge in Enterprise has been the Enterprise quality -- the private networks where we've actually not had attractive neither growth nor profitability. So that is something we're working to address and starting to see progress on that. You all know the business of Vonage has not been contributing. We put in place a plan to change the trajectory of that business that we're executing upon.

Enterprise 的挑戰在於 Enterprise quality——也就是私有網路（private networks），我們在那裡既沒有吸引人的成長，也沒有吸引人的獲利能力。因此這是我們正在努力解決的部分，並且開始看到進展。大家都知道 Vonage 的業務一直沒有貢獻。我們已制定一個計畫來改變該業務的走勢，並正在執行。

It will take a little bit more time, but you will start to see improved performance in the reported numbers. You've seen it from Q1 to Q2 and you'll see it continuing throughout the year. So clearly, the ambition is here to turn this around and make it value accreting in the view, I'm not going to put a timeline on it as I'm not the one to deliver on it, so it feels a bit unfair to do. But I would say the plan is in place and we're executing on that and overtime time it should be value creative.

這還需要一點時間，但你會開始在已揭露的數字中看到改善的表現。你已經從第一季到第二季看到了，並且會在今年持續下去。所以我們的企圖心很明確：要扭轉局面並讓它帶來增值；至於時間表，我不會給，因為我不是負責交付的人，這樣做有點不公平。但我會說計畫已就位且正在執行，隨著時間推進，它應該會成為價值創造（value creative）。

Sami Sarkamies, Danske Bank.

Sami Sarkamies，Danske Bank。

First of all, I want to thank Börje for good cooperation over the years. I think you can be proud of the achieved margin turnaround during the past 10 years. Just curious, what do you think will be the biggest challenges or questions your successor will need to address going forward?

首先，我想感謝 Börje 多年來良好的合作。我想你可以為過去 10 年達成的利潤率翻轉感到自豪。我只是好奇，你認為你的接班人未來需要面對並解決的最大挑戰或問題會是什麼？

I think it's a bit unfair to my successor to put something on his table, but what we have been focused on the last few years is that we have recognized that the core business, the core mobile networks business in reality is a flattish market.

把某些事情直接放到我接班人的桌上其實有點不公平，但我們過去幾年的重點是：我們已經認知到核心業務、也就是核心行動網路業務，實際上是一個相對持平的市場。

And to get into growth, which I actually think is critical for long-term value creation of a company is actually to find new use cases of our technology. We've done that in trying to do that in Enterprise. We're not there yet. We've tried in or actually doing it in mission critical, including defense, and there we're starting to see that it contributes to overall growth.

而要進入成長——我其實認為這對公司的長期價值創造至關重要——就必須為我們的技術找到新的使用情境（use cases）。我們在 Enterprise 方面一直嘗試這麼做。我們還沒達到目標。我們也在關鍵任務（mission critical）領域嘗試、或者說正在做，包括國防；在那裡我們開始看到它對整體成長有所貢獻。

So when we look at this, I think the one thing which now I'm answering this much more from what we have actually been focusing on the past few years is to drive growth into the company without being, in that sense, pursuing a number of initiatives and from a blue sky thinking. So we've rather tried to be disciplined in the way we enter areas, trying to invest to capture that potential and trying to growth -- trying to get into growth, and I think that's where the next step of the journey is.

所以當我們看這件事時，我想有一點——我現在的回答更是基於我們過去幾年的聚焦——就是在不追逐一堆倡議、也不做那種天馬行空（blue sky）的思考之下，推動公司成長。因此我們更傾向以有紀律的方式進入新領域，透過投資來掌握潛力，並嘗試進入成長——我認為這就是下一段旅程的下一步。

I'm actually a big believer that AI will move into the physical world, and when that happens, we're going to be very well positioned with the initiatives we have taken, but I am sure that my successor will take new initiatives and ideas and change some to capture this potential. I think there are a lot of opportunities, not saying it's easy, but it's a lot of opportunities where we can capitalize on our position.

我其實非常相信 AI 會進入實體世界，而當那發生時，憑藉我們已採取的各項舉措，我們會處於非常有利的位置；但我也確信我的接班人會提出新的倡議與想法，並調整部分作法以掌握這個潛力。我認為機會很多，我不是說這很容易，但確實有很多機會讓我們能夠利用我們的既有地位。

Felix Henriksson, Nordea.

Felix Henriksson，Nordea。

Thanks for taking my question, again, congrats and all the best for the future, Börje.

謝謝回答我的問題，再次恭喜，也祝你未來一切順利，Börje。

My question is on the inventory, you tied up around SEK4.6 billion in inventory during the quarter, so I was just wondering if you could dissect this a little bit. How much of this is sort of attributed to the memory cost inflation and how much is attributed to a sort of strong sales quarter you see in Q3 relating to the timing of deliveries?

我的問題是關於庫存：你們本季在庫存上占用了約 SEK4.6 billion，所以我想請你稍微拆解一下。其中有多少可歸因於記憶體成本通膨（memory cost inflation），又有多少是因為你們在第三季看到較強的銷售季度、與交付時點（timing of deliveries）相關？

I think in the IR chats in the morning, there was some discussion about delayed deliveries from Q2 to Q3. So if you could just unpack the inventory build-up a little bit and how we should read into it?

我想今天早上的 IR 討論中，有提到部分交付從第二季延後到第三季。所以如果你能稍微說明一下庫存增加的原因，以及我們應該如何解讀？

Yes, now when you look at the inventory build-up here, it's around SEK5 billion in the quarter and the majority of that is sort of finished goods that is then to be delivered in Q3 and going forward on this phasing as we mentioned. But there is also a portion of that connected to the higher component cost that we see coming in. But it's not the majority, it's a smaller part of the SEK5 billion that is connected to the component cost increases.

是的，當你看本季的庫存增加，大約是 SEK5 billion，其中大部分是成品（finished goods），接著會在第三季以及之後依我們提到的節奏（phasing）交付。但其中也有一部分與我們看到的較高零組件成本相關。不過這不是大宗，與零組件成本上升相關的只是這 SEK5 billion 中較小的一部分。

And this will continue a bit, so that would be the challenge going forward here to really address the working capital and the capital turnover rate here in the coming quarters. But it's important also that we have the right levels here, so we have ability to deliver on time to our customers and the commitments we have with our customers.

而這種情況還會持續一段時間，因此在接下來的幾個季度，真正要解決營運資金以及資本周轉率，將會是未來的挑戰。但同樣重要的是，我們必須維持適當的水位，才能有能力準時交付給客戶，並履行我們對客戶的承諾。

Janardan Menon, Jefferies.

Janardan Menon，Jefferies。

Thanks for taking the question and congratulations, Börje, from my side as well. I think you've done a great job on the profitability side. The company you inherited was struggling with profitability and now the company is maintaining consistently high levels of gross margins on the Network side.

感謝讓我提問，也從我這邊向Börje表示祝賀。我認為你在獲利能力方面做得非常出色。你接手時公司在獲利上仍在掙扎，而現在公司在網路業務端持續維持相當高的毛利率水準。

My question is really on the competitive dynamics of your mitigation aspects. When you are redesigning products to account for higher component prices or your increasing prices, are you seeing similar kind of an approach from your competitors and that's both your Chinese competitors who are able to possibly source components like DRAM at an easier level or lower prices from Chinese vendors than you can? And are you seeing any competitive effect from these actions which could have an impact on your market share?

我的問題主要是關於你們緩解措施的競爭動態。當你們為了因應更高的零組件價格而重新設計產品，或是提高售價時，你們是否看到競爭對手也採取類似作法？這包括你們的中國競爭對手，他們可能比你們更容易從中國供應商取得像DRAM這類零組件，或以更低價格取得。而你們是否看到這些行動帶來任何競爭效應，可能對你們的市占率造成影響？

I think you actually make implicit in your question, Janardan, is actually an important part here. There may be, as you say, a little bit lower cost inflation in the Chinese ecosystem. And as you know we cannot rely on that ecosystem to export to a number of countries we're in. That forces us to look at the product design in a different way. We're seeing all vendors otherwise under some sort of similar cost inflation pressure, so we would you know we're not we're not the only one going through this.

Janardan，我認為你在問題中其實隱含提到了一個重要部分。如你所說，中國生態系的成本通膨可能會稍微低一些。而且如你所知，我們無法依賴該生態系向我們所在的多個國家出口。這迫使我們以不同方式來看待產品設計。除此之外，我們看到所有供應商都承受某種程度相似的成本通膨壓力，所以你知道，我們並不是唯一正在經歷這件事的公司。

What we are doing is is of course spending maybe a little bit more effort on product design to actually optimize our products for the performance needed in order to balance component cost. This takes six nine months to do so it. It doesn't really come through in the short-term, but longer-term, it will help us. And I expect everyone to do something similar.

我們正在做的，當然是可能在產品設計上投入更多心力，實際上是為了在滿足所需效能的前提下，最佳化產品，以平衡零組件成本。這需要六到九個月才能完成。因此短期內不會真正反映出來，但長期而言會對我們有幫助。而我也預期每個人都會做類似的事情。

We're probably going to see that in other parts of the AI value chain as well that companies do the same thing because it's simply a way to optimize the performance and cost of your product. I don't think the vendors, whether they come from China or from elsewhere, are under any other way of operating.

我們可能也會在AI價值鏈的其他部分看到同樣情況，也就是公司採取相同作法，因為這基本上就是一種最佳化產品效能與成本的方法。我不認為供應商，不論來自中國或其他地方，會有任何不同的運作方式。

Stephane Houri, Oddo.

Stephane Houri，Oddo。

Actually, I wanted to speak about the Cloud Software and Services margin, where your margins went really above the expectations, 12.4%, I just want to know how much of this improvement is structural, like cost reduction, efficiency mix. And how much is a one-off and what is a reasonable run rate margin to expect going forward in Q?

其實我想談的是雲端軟體與服務的利潤率，你們的利潤率大幅高於預期，達到12.4%。我想了解這項改善有多少是結構性的，例如成本降低、效率提升、組合改善。又有多少是一次性的？以及往後在Q（季度）可以合理期待的常態化利潤率水準是多少？

Now, when it comes to Cloud Source and Services, we try to emphasize the EBITDA margin since there can be a bit of volatility depending on the product mix in Cloud Source and Services.

在談到Cloud Source and Services時，我們會嘗試強調EBITDA利潤率，因為Cloud Source and Services的產品組合不同，可能會帶來一些波動。

We had a good quarter this quarter for sure, but you also see the impact when we get a bit higher revenues that there is a leverage also supporting the margin here. So it's a mix of the leverage and the product mix. And it is, as I said, a good quarter here in Q2.

本季確實是個不錯的季度，但你也會看到，當營收稍微提高時，會有槓桿效應同樣支撐這裡的利潤率。所以這是槓桿效應與產品組合的混合結果。而且如我所說，這是Q2的一個好季度。

And we have said that we are aiming for double-digit Cloud Software and Services EBITDA margin and we are there now and above. And the task is for us to maintain and drive this going forward. But there is also, of course, the connection with the RAN market demand that is not a separate life of that business, of course. So the challenge we see in the RAN market is also there for the Cloud Software and Services.

我們也說過，我們的目標是雲端軟體與服務EBITDA利潤率達到雙位數，而我們現在已經達到並且高於此水準。我們的任務是未來要維持並推動這個表現。但當然，這也與RAN市場需求有所連動，這項業務並不是獨立運作的。因此，我們在RAN市場看到的挑戰，同樣也存在於雲端軟體與服務。

But having said that, we see some good progress in capturing a bit of growth here that we have seen over the -- if you look more on the rolling base, it's actually been a bit better than the pure RAN market here. And we intend to keep focus on that going forward as well.

不過話說回來，我們看到在掌握一些成長方面有不錯的進展——如果你用滾動基礎來看，實際上表現比純粹的RAN市場要好一些。我們也打算未來持續聚焦在這一點上。

But it's fair to say there's no one-time effects that actually come into the quarter. It's kind of business as usual, to be honest. And at least the turnaround plan that was put in place several years ago on commercial discipline, work on the cost side, focus the product portfolio, et cetera, that's giving the benefits here.

但可以公平地說，本季並沒有任何一次性因素進來。老實說，這算是照常運作。至少幾年前所制定的轉型計畫——包含商業紀律、成本面的工作、聚焦產品組合等等——正在在此展現效益。

And sometimes there is a bit of lag until you see it in the numbers. It's the same thing that we discussed on the Enterprise side. A lot of the actions that have been taken the last one, two years will start to come through in the future.

而且有時候會有一些滯後，你要到數字上才看得出來。這和我們在企業業務端討論的是同一件事。過去一到兩年採取的許多行動，將會在未來開始反映出來。

And that's what you see on BCSS. It's a lot of the actions taken a few years back that now is building a solid base. Then we've said we need to be double-digit margin. That's been, I think, a minimum requirement. Call it a decency level. If you look at what a business like this should be, I've often said it should at least be mid-teens and above because that's the reality of the value we provide should warrant that.

這就是你在BCSS上看到的情況。這是幾年前採取的許多行動，如今正在建立一個穩固的基礎。接著我們也說過，我們需要達到雙位數利潤率。我認為那一直是最低要求。可以說是一個基本體面的水準。如果你看這類業務應有的樣貌，我常說至少應該達到十幾個百分點（mid-teens）甚至更高，因為我們所提供的價值，現實上就應該支撐那樣的水準。

Then it takes time it's not going to commit to a timing of reaching that but of course the ambition is to make this a more profitable business than it is today but I think it's the timing effect of action so when you take them, it takes a few quarters before you see it come through.

接著這需要時間，我不會承諾達到那個水準的時間點，但當然，我們的企圖心是讓這項業務比今天更有獲利能力；只是這是行動的時點效應——當你採取行動後，通常要過幾個季度才會在數字上反映出來。

Great. Thanks for the question, Stephane, and I see we are just coming up on time, so we will need to conclude today's conference call there. Thanks for joining us. Thanks, Börje. Thanks, Lars, and also Per.

很好。謝謝你的提問，Stephane。我看到時間也差不多了，因此我們需要在此結束今天的電話會議。感謝各位加入。謝謝你，Börje。謝謝你，Lars，也謝謝Per。

Thanks, everyone, and good luck in your work.

謝謝各位，祝各位工作順利。