Azul SA (AZUL) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and welcome all to the fourth quarter earnings call from Azul. My name is Zac and I will be your operator for today. This event is being recorded (Operator Instructions).

大家好，歡迎大家參加 Azul 的第四季度財報電話會議。我叫 Zac，今天我將擔任您的接線員。正在記錄此事件（操作員說明）。

I would like to turn the presentation over to Thais Haberli, Head of Investor Relations. Please proceed, please.

我想將演示文稿轉交給投資者關係主管 Thais Haberli。請繼續，請。

Thank you, Zac, and welcome all to Azul’s fourth quarter earnings call. The results that we announced this morning, the audio of this call and the slides that we reference are available on our IR website.

謝謝 Zac，歡迎大家參加 Azul 的第四季度財報電話會議。我們今天早上宣布的結果、本次電話會議的音頻和我們參考的幻燈片都可以在我們的 IR 網站上找到。

Presenting today will be David Neeleman, Azul Founder and Chairman; John Rodgerson, CEO; and Alex Malfitani, our CFO; Amisha, the President of Azul is also here for the Q&A session. Before I turn the call over to David, I'd like to caution you regarding our forward-looking statements. Any matters discussed today that are not historical facts, particularly comments regarding the company's future plans, objectives and expected performance constitute forward-looking statements.

Azul 創始人兼董事長 David Neeleman 今天出席會議；約翰·羅傑森，首席執行官；和我們的首席財務官 Alex Malfitani； Azul 總裁 Amisha 也出席了問答環節。在我將電話轉給大衛之前，我想提醒您注意我們的前瞻性陳述。今天討論的任何非歷史事實的事項，特別是關於公司未來計劃、目標和預期業績的評論均構成前瞻性陳述。

These statements are based on a range of assumptions that the company believes are reasonable but are subject to uncertainties and risks that are discussed in detail in our CVM and SEC fights. Also, during the course of the call, we will discuss non-IFRS performance measures, which should not be considered in isolation.

這些陳述基於公司認為合理的一系列假設，但受我們在 CVM 和 SEC 鬥爭中詳細討論的不確定性和風險的影響。此外，在通話過程中，我們將討論非 IFRS 績效指標，不應孤立地考慮這些指標。

With that, I will turn the call over to David. David?

有了這個，我會把電話轉給大衛。大衛？

Thanks Thais, and welcome, everyone, and thanks for joining (technical difficulty) for our fourth call. As you can see on Slide 3, there is a lot to talk about today. I know you all want to hear the details of our comprehensive go-forward plan. John and Alex and their teams have worked very hard over the past 55 days to successfully reach commercial agreements for more than 90% of our aircraft leases.

謝謝泰國人，歡迎大家，並感謝您加入（技術困難）我們的第四次電話會議。正如您在幻燈片 3 中看到的，今天有很多內容要談。我知道你們都想听聽我們全面推進計劃的細節。 John 和 Alex 以及他們的團隊在過去 55 天裡非常努力地工作，成功地就我們 90% 以上的飛機租賃達成了商業協議。

These agreements fundamentally change the financial future of our company. I would like to personally thank our management team and our partners have shown a tremendous amount of confidence in our business and for good (technical difficulty). As you can see in the presentation, we have created a company creates billions in cash flow annually. First, let me tell you about our great business, and then John and Alex will share with you the details of our plan.

這些協議從根本上改變了我們公司的財務前景。我要親自感謝我們的管理團隊，我們的合作夥伴對我們的業務表現出極大的信心，並且永遠（技術困難）。正如您在演示文稿中看到的，我們創建了一家每年創造數十億現金流的公司。首先，讓我向您介紹一下我們的偉大業務，然後約翰和亞歷克斯將與您分享我們計劃的細節。

Moving to Slide 4, 2022 was a [rec] for Azul. We generated $16 billion in revenue, up 40% compared to 2019. Unit revenue was also a record $0.40, up 26% from the full year 2019. Revenue performance is due to our structural competitive advantages in our network, combined with the strong growth of our business units made this possible.

轉到幻燈片 4，2022 年是 Azul 的 [rec]。我們創造了 160 億美元的收入，比 2019 年增長 40%。單位收入也達到創紀錄的 0.40 美元，比 2019 年全年增長 26%。收入表現得益於我們在網絡中的結構性競爭優勢，以及我們的業務部門使這成為可能。

Our wholly and unencumbered business units also had record results this year compared to 2019. Our loyalty program -- compared to 2019, our loyalty program to Azul almost double this gross billing. Azul Cargo, our logistics business, an impressive 153% in revenue and ended the year as Brazil's largest domestic air logistics provider.

與 2019 年相比，我們完全無負擔的業務部門今年也取得了創紀錄的業績。我們的忠誠度計劃——與 2019 年相比，我們對 Azul 的忠誠度計劃幾乎是總收入的兩倍。我們的物流業務 Azul Cargo 的收入達到令人印象深刻的 153%，並在年底成為巴西最大的國內航空物流供應商。

Finally, our travel business to Azul Viagens grew $1.3 billion in gross bookings. Looking at 2023, we are excited at the opportunities we see. Later this month, we will begin flying our expanded network from Sao Paulo's downtown airport Congonhas, we more than double to 84 daily flights, which will serve all the largest corporate markets, we cannot wait to show these new customers, all that Azul has to offer. Overall, for the year, we expect $20 billion in total revenue and EBITDA above $1 billion. That's more than a 0 increase in 2019.

最後，我們前往 Azul Viagens 的旅遊業務總預訂量增長了 13 億美元。展望 2023 年，我們對所看到的機遇感到興奮。本月晚些時候，我們將開始從聖保羅市中心的孔戈尼亞斯機場飛行我們擴展的網絡，我們每天有 84 個航班增加一倍多，這將服務於所有最大的企業市場，我們迫不及待地向這些新客戶展示 Azul 所擁有的一切提供。總體而言，我們預計今年的總收入為 200 億美元，EBITDA 超過 10 億美元。這比 2019 年的增長超過 0。

Moving to Slide 5, we show making some development of our route network and under lending focus building and expanding our competitive advantage. We serve 158 destinations, and Azul is the only carrier in 80% of our routes and the market leader in more than 90% of them. In addition to our domestic network, our annual capacity will fully recover this year.

轉到幻燈片 5，我們展示了我們的路線網絡的一些發展，以及在貸款重點建設和擴大我們的競爭優勢下。我們為 158 個目的地提供服務，Azul 是我們 80% 航線上的唯一承運商，並且是其中 90% 以上航線的市場領導者。除了我們的國內網絡，我們的年產能將在今年全面恢復。

We recently announced exciting new destinations such as Paris and Curacao. Together Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando, Lisbon and Monte veto, we are putting together a very relevant international network. In addition, our cohort partnerships with United, JetBlue, TAP and Air Europa will allow us to connect our customers all over the U.S. and Europe, significantly increasing our position in these markets.

我們最近宣布了激動人心的新目的地，例如巴黎和庫拉索島。邁阿密、勞德代爾堡、奧蘭多、里斯本和蒙特韋托，我們正在建立一個非常相關的國際網絡。此外，我們與 United、JetBlue、TAP 和 Air Europa 的隊列合作夥伴關係將使我們能夠連接美國和歐洲各地的客戶，顯著提高我們在這些市場的地位。

Finally, turning to Slide 6. I'm very happy to say that 2020 was another exceptional operating year in which we followed up with the world's Best Airline award with the world's on-time airline award. Just last week, we abated this achievement in our hanger and with our numbers, and there was not a dry eye in the house. I think I even spot on shedding a few tiers. I'm just so proud of this team.

最後，轉到幻燈片 6。我很高興地說，2020 年是又一個出色的運營年，我們隨後獲得了世界最佳航空公司獎和世界準點航空公司獎。就在上週，我們在我們的衣架和我們的人數上削弱了這一成就，而且房子裡沒有乾眼。我想我什至發現要脫掉幾層。我為這支球隊感到驕傲。

As John will explain, we have an amazing business, which generates billions of reais in cash flow from operations. We have built something very special, and I'm so excited about what is ahead of us.

正如 John 將解釋的那樣，我們擁有一項了不起的業務，它從運營中產生了數十億雷亞爾的現金流。我們已經建立了一些非常特別的東西，我對我們面前的事情感到非常興奮。

With that, I'll pass the word to John to give you more details on our fourth quarter results and our go-forward plan. John?

有了這個，我會告訴約翰，給你更多關於我們第四季度業績和我們前進計劃的細節。約翰？

Thanks, David. Yes, I did get a motion last week. It was very special, and I cannot thank enough our crew members who repeatedly shown their dedication for Azul. Without their passion and support, these results would simply not be possible. I would like to remind everyone that we had more than 11,000 of our people took unpaid leave of absence to help Azul during the pandemic. When they came back, they came back stronger and more dedicated and that dedication led us to be the most on-time airline in the world.

謝謝，大衛。是的，我上週確實收到了動議。這是非常特別的，我非常感謝我們的船員們，他們一再表現出對 Azul 的奉獻精神。沒有他們的熱情和支持，這些結果根本不可能實現。我想提醒大家，在大流行期間，我們有超過 11,000 名員工無薪休假來幫助 Azul。當他們回來時，他們變得更強大、更敬業，這種敬業精神使我們成為世界上準點率最高的航空公司。

As you can see on Slide 7, revenue for the fourth quarter was another all-time record at BRL 4.5 billion, 37% above 4Q 2019. Yields also an all-time record, was $0.56, an increase of 16% compared to 4Q '21 and 32% versus 4Q 2019. We also had a record RASK compared to 4Q 2019, our RASK was up 27%. And Operating income was BRL 525 million in the quarter at an operating margin of 12%. Our EBITDA margin was 25% with an absolute value of BRL 1.1 billion. This is even more impressive when you consider that fuel was up 116% versus fourth quarter 2019, and the currency devalued 30%.

正如您在幻燈片 7 中看到的那樣，第四季度的收入再創歷史新高，達到 45 億雷亞爾，比 2019 年第四季度增長 37%。收益率也創歷史新高，為 0.56 美元，比第四季度增長 16%與 2019 年第四季度相比分別增加了 21% 和 32%。與 2019 年第四季度相比，我們的 RASK 也創下了歷史新高，我們的 RASK 增長了 27%。本季度營業收入為 5.25 億雷亞爾，營業利潤率為 12%。我們的 EBITDA 利潤率為 25%，絕對值為 11 億雷亞爾。當你考慮到燃料比 2019 年第四季度上漲 116% 並且貨幣貶值 30% 時，這就更令人印象深刻了。

On Slide 8, you can see the sequential improvement in our RASK. First, you can see how significant and sustained the RASK improvement has been since 2019 and then how it improved through the year 2022. This is a clear signal of not just pent-up demand but a new level of sustained revenue performance.

在幻燈片 8 上，您可以看到我們 RASK 的連續改進。首先，您可以看到自 2019 年以來 RASK 改善的顯著性和持續性，以及它在 2022 年的改善情況。這清楚地表明，不僅是被壓抑的需求，而且是持續收入表現的新水平。

Second, you could see that for 2023, our assumptions are not aggressive. I know Abi and his team will always try to maximize RASK, but this chart shows that for 2023, we're just assuming what we've already achieved in 2022.

其次，您可以看到，對於 2023 年，我們的假設並不激進。我知道 Abi 和他的團隊總是會嘗試最大化 RASK，但這張圖表顯示，對於 2023 年，我們只是假設我們在 2022 年已經取得的成就。

Azul has one of the highest EBITDA margins among its peers, as you can see on Slide 9. The strength in the revenue performance, the improvements in the fuel environment and the milestones such as our Congonhas growth gives you a clear indication as to the earnings strength of our airline and why we're so excited for this year and beyond.

正如您在幻燈片 9 中看到的那樣，Azul 是同行中 EBITDA 利潤率最高的公司之一。收入表現的實力、燃料環境的改善以及我們的 Congonhas 增長等里程碑讓您清楚地了解收益我們航空公司的實力以及為什麼我們對今年及以後如此興奮。

On Slide 10, we bridge our 4Q 2019 results to 4Q 2022. You can see the negative impact from fuel, currency and inflation and how we were able to offset those cost increases through our growth, revenue performance, business units and being a more efficient airline exiting the crisis. With these initiatives, we were able to offset over 90% of the cost impact during the quarter alone, an impressive achievement given how fast and how much fuel prices increased during the year.

在幻燈片 10 上，我們將 2019 年第四季度的結果與 2022 年第四季度的結果聯繫起來。您可以看到燃料、貨幣和通貨膨脹的負面影響，以及我們如何能夠通過我們的增長、收入表現、業務部門和提高效率來抵消這些成本增加航空公司走出危機。通過這些舉措，僅在本季度，我們就能夠抵消 90% 以上的成本影響，考慮到一年中燃料價格上漲的速度和幅度，這是一個了不起的成就。

Even more impressive is our strong cash contribution from operations. Slide 11 shows that in 2022, we had a cash contribution of BRL 5.5 billion when comparing the cash inflows to the outflows from operations. We paid over $5.1 billion in rent and debt. These are significant payments that supported our deleveraging process. As a result, we ended the year with leverage below 6%, consistent with the guidance we gave you at the start of the year.

更令人印象深刻的是我們來自運營的強勁現金貢獻。幻燈片 11 顯示，在比較現金流入和經營流出時，我們在 2022 年的現金貢獻為 55 億雷亞爾。我們支付了超過 51 億美元的租金和債務。這些是支持我們去槓桿化過程的重要付款。因此，我們年底的槓桿率低於 6%，與我們年初給您的指導一致。

On Slides 12 and 13, we want to highlight further the magnitude of these aircraft rent and debt payments and how they have grown since 2019. On Slide 12, you can see that in 2022, we paid over $3.6 billion in aircraft rent, $1.6 billion more than 2019, mainly due to the devaluation of the Brazilian real, COVID rent deferrals and our fleet growth. Debt and interest payments also increased in 2022, as you can see on Slide 13.

在幻燈片 12 和 13 上，我們想進一步強調這些飛機租金和債務支付的規模，以及它們自 2019 年以來的增長情況。在幻燈片 12 上，您可以看到，在 2022 年，我們支付了超過 36 億美元的飛機租金，16 億美元超過 2019 年，主要是由於巴西雷亞爾貶值、COVID 租金延期和我們的船隊增長。正如您在幻燈片 13 中看到的那樣，2022 年的債務和利息支付也有所增加。

In 2022, Azul paid over $1.5 billion in principal debt and interest, $1.1 billion more than 2019, mainly due to the debt that we had to take on during the pandemic. As a reminder, unlike subsidized airlines in the U.S. and Europe, we did not receive any government financial health during that challenging time. But with the strong results from our operations, we've been able to significantly accelerate our deleveraging process. These levels of aircraft rent and debt payments are clearly challenging, and this is why we're so focused on optimizing these so that we can strengthen our balance sheet and improve our cash flow going forward. As David mentioned at the opening, we have already made significant progress on that front.

2022 年，Azul 支付了超過 15 億美元的本金和利息，比 2019 年多 11 億美元，這主要是由於我們在大流行期間不得不承擔的債務。提醒一下，與美國和歐洲的補貼航空公司不同，在那個充滿挑戰的時期，我們沒有獲得任何政府財務健康狀況。但憑藉我們的運營取得的強勁成果，我們已經能夠顯著加快我們的去槓桿化進程。這些水平的飛機租金和債務支付顯然具有挑戰性，這就是為什麼我們如此專注於優化這些，以便我們能夠加強我們的資產負債表並改善我們未來的現金流。正如大衛在開幕式上提到的那樣，我們已經在這方面取得了重大進展。

Moving forward to Slide 14, you can see our yearly results since we launched Azul and where the pandemic currency devaluation and high fuel prices have impacted our results. As mentioned before, for 2023, we expect a full and strong EBITDA recovery of over BRL 5 billion. That's more than $1 billion of EBITDA. The strength of our business is evident. On Slide 15, you could see that from 2017 to 2019, Azul consistently traded at about 8x EBITDA, while we currently are trading at 4x. It's incredible to think that just going back to a 5 multiple, which would still be well below our historical average, our valuation would need to triple.

轉到幻燈片 14，您可以看到自我們推出 Azul 以來的年度業績，以及大流行性貨幣貶值和高油價對我們業績的影響。如前所述，到 2023 年，我們預計 EBITDA 將實現全面而強勁的複蘇，超過 50 億雷亞爾。這超過 10 億美元的 EBITDA。我們的業務實力是顯而易見的。在幻燈片 15 上，您可以看到從 2017 年到 2019 年，Azul 的 EBITDA 一直保持在 8 倍左右，而我們目前的交易價格為 4 倍。令人難以置信的是，只要回到 5 倍，這仍然遠低於我們的歷史平均水平，我們的估值就需要翻三倍。

Moving to Slide 16. We show what we believe is the main reason that our valuation is held back. As we showed you on Azul Day, here, you can see the net effect of the combination of higher cash outflows recovering EBITDA and the lack of government financial support during the pandemic. We have continued to address these challenges through revenue and productivity initiatives, together with the valuable support of our partners, we made significant progress since 2020, and we've previously projected a cash gap of BRL 3 billion for 2023.

轉到幻燈片 16。我們展示了我們認為是我們估值受阻的主要原因。正如我們在 Azul Day 上向您展示的那樣，在這裡，您可以看到在大流行期間更高的現金流出恢復 EBITDA 和缺乏政府財政支持相結合的淨效應。我們繼續通過收入和生產力舉措以及合作夥伴的寶貴支持來應對這些挑戰，自 2020 年以來我們取得了重大進展，我們此前預計 2023 年的現金缺口為 30 億雷亞爾。

Now thanks to the progress we have made, not only have we already eliminated that gap, but our comprehensive go-forward plan results in significant cash flow and balance sheet improvements for the foreseeable future.

現在，由於我們取得的進展，我們不僅已經消除了這一差距，而且我們全面的前瞻性計劃在可預見的未來帶來了顯著的現金流和資產負債表改善。

Let me now turn it over to Alex so he can give you more details on this plan.

現在讓我將其轉交給亞歷克斯，以便他可以為您提供有關此計劃的更多詳細信息。

Thanks, John. I'm really excited to share with you the details of what we have been working on, starting with Slide 17. As you can see here, we have developed and started to implement a comprehensive plan that provides a permanent solution to our capital structure, significantly improves our cash flow and provides maximum value generation for our stakeholders by ensuring that they receive 100% of what was committed to them.

謝謝，約翰。從幻燈片 17 開始，我很高興與您分享我們一直在努力的細節。正如您在此處看到的，我們已經制定並開始實施一項全面計劃，為我們的資本結構提供永久解決方案，顯著改善我們的現金流，並通過確保利益相關者獲得 100% 的承諾，為我們的利益相關者創造最大價值。

We started implementing this plan by negotiating with our lessors. And on Slide 18, you can see why. About 80% of our gross debt is related to aircraft leases. Therefore, addressing this debt in a comprehensive way results in significant cash flow improvements.

我們通過與出租人談判開始實施該計劃。在幻燈片 18 上，您可以看到原因。我們約 80% 的總債務與飛機租賃有關。因此，以全面的方式解決這些債務可以顯著改善現金流。

On Slide 19, you can see the progress we have already made over the last 45 days. As we announced in our material fact last night, we've already reached commercial agreements with lessors representing more than 90% of our lease obligations. And I am confident we will reach an agreement with the remaining share. We have seen strong support from our partners as they understand that this is a smart business decision. It maximizes the return on investment, and I want to thank them for their support and confidence. Throughout this negotiation, we had -- we've had 0 aircraft withdrawals. In fact, our partners have delivered to us 12 additional new aircraft in the last few months, including 4 A320neos.

在幻燈片 19 上，您可以看到我們在過去 45 天內取得的進展。正如我們昨晚在重要事實中宣布的那樣，我們已經與占我們租賃義務 90% 以上的出租人達成了商業協議。我相信我們將就剩餘份額達成協議。我們得到了合作夥伴的大力支持，因為他們明白這是一個明智的商業決策。它使投資回報最大化，我要感謝他們的支持和信任。在整個談判過程中，我們有——我們有 0 架飛機撤離。事實上，我們的合作夥伴在過去幾個月裡又向我們交付了 12 架新飛機，其中包括 4 架 A320neo。

On Slide 20, we describe these lessor agreements in more details. So under these agreements, subject to certain conditions and corporate approvals, lessors will reduce our lease payments to eliminate the COVID-related deferrals. They will also eliminate the gap between Azul's contractual lease rates and agreed upon market rates. In exchange, Azul’s will receive a tradable note maturing in 2030 and equity priced in a way to reflect our new capital structure, our improved cash flows and our reduced credit risk.

在幻燈片 20 上，我們更詳細地描述了這些出租人協議。因此，根據這些協議，在某些條件和公司批准的情況下，出租人將減少我們的租賃付款以消除與 COVID 相關的延期。它們還將消除 Azul 的合同租賃費率與商定的市場費率之間的差距。作為交換，Azul's 將收到一張將於 2030 年到期的可交易票據和股票定價方式，以反映我們新的資本結構、我們改善的現金流和降低的信用風險。

Out of the total value that is being exchanged, which again is the reduction from both the COVID-related deferrals and the rent gap, the long-term note represents 40%, while the equity represents 60%. Consistent with our reputation and our track record, this plan is designed to give Azul’s 100% of our committed payments through this combination of long-term debt and equity in a reset balance sheet.

在交換的總價值中，也就是與 COVID 相關的延期和租金差距的減少，長期票據佔 40%，而股權佔 60%。與我們的聲譽和業績記錄一致，該計劃旨在通過重置資產負債表中的長期債務和股權組合，向 Azul 提供 100% 的承諾付款。

Moving on to Slide 21. We have also engaged with our OEM partners, another vital stakeholder group so we can address our CapEx requirements. With a similar comprehensive permanent plan, we are making tremendous progress with this group as well. Once again, we're committed to significantly improving the cash flow for the airline at the same time that we follow the principle of 100% recovery for our partners.

轉到幻燈片 21。我們還與我們的 OEM 合作夥伴進行了接觸，這是另一個重要的利益相關者群體，因此我們可以滿足我們的資本支出要求。通過類似的全面永久計劃，我們也在這個小組中取得了巨大進步。我們再次致力於顯著改善航空公司的現金流，同時我們遵循合作夥伴 100% 回收的原則。

And on Slide 22, you can see the cumulative effect of this plan. In 2023 alone, we convert the cash gap of $3 billion that we have talked about from a negative to breakeven. The main items that were reduced or eliminated, as I mentioned, are the monthly lease payments, the maintenance CapEx and the COVID-related deferrals. Remember, though, this plan does not cover just 2023. This is not a stop gap for 1 year only. The results of this plan go well beyond, as you can see on Slide 22. This is truly a permanent solution that aligns the interest of all of our stakeholders and creates a balance sheet and cash flow generation that is consistent with our strong profitability.

在幻燈片 22 上，您可以看到該計劃的累積效果。僅在 2023 年，我們就將我們談到的 30 億美元現金缺口從負轉為收支平衡。正如我提到的，減少或取消的主要項目是每月租賃付款、維護資本支出和與 COVID 相關的延期。但請記住，該計劃不僅僅涵蓋 2023 年。這不僅僅是 1 年的權宜之計。正如您在幻燈片 22 中看到的那樣，該計劃的結果遠遠超出了這一點。這是一個真正的永久性解決方案，它使我們所有利益相關者的利益保持一致，並創建了與我們強大的盈利能力相一致的資產負債表和現金流生成。

Now let me turn it back over to John for the conclusion.

現在讓我把它轉回給約翰作結論。

Thanks, Alex. Now you can see why we're so excited to share all of this with you today. On Slide 24, we start to look a little ahead. We have always talked about the incredible growth opportunities and margin contribution from our wholly owned and unencumbered business units, TudoAzul, Azul Cargo and our packaging business, Azul Viagens. We recently had them appraised by an independent firm. And in total, these fast-growing businesses appraised at more than USD 5 billion or BRL 25 billion.

謝謝，亞歷克斯。現在您可以明白為什麼我們今天如此興奮地與您分享這一切。在幻燈片 24 上，我們開始向前看。我們一直在談論我們的全資和無抵押業務部門 TudoAzul、Azul Cargo 和我們的包裝業務 Azul Viagens 帶來的令人難以置信的增長機會和利潤貢獻。我們最近讓一家獨立公司對它們進行了評估。這些快速發展的企業總計估值超過 50 億美元或 250 億雷亞爾。

Our comprehensive solution and its corresponding reduction of our credit risk, combined with our growth in EBITDA, cash generation and our valuable unencumbered assets gives us strong confidence that we can access the capital markets when needed to invest in our growth.

我們全面的解決方案及其相應降低的信用風險，加上我們在 EBITDA、現金生成和寶貴的未支配資產方面的增長，使我們堅信我們可以在需要投資於我們的增長時進入資本市場。

Finally, on Slide 25, we have to show you why we're so excited for the future. Our business is doing incredibly well. Abhi will talk about the revenue. We're hitting record revenues and record EBITDA. Our customers love to fly us and our crew members love to work here. Yes, COVID and macro effects have had a negative impact, which is why we presented today real progress towards a permanent and comprehensive plan to improve our cash flow, optimize our capital structure and continue to invest in our business. I realize we gave you a lot of information today but just in the last 45 days, we've made incredible progress, and there's much more to come.

最後，在幻燈片 25 上，我們必須向您展示為什麼我們對未來如此興奮。我們的業務做得非常好。 Abhi 將談論收入。我們創下了創紀錄的收入和創紀錄的 EBITDA。我們的客戶喜歡搭乘我們的航班，我們的機組人員也喜歡在這里工作。是的，COVID 和宏觀效應產生了負面影響，這就是為什麼我們今天展示了在改善我們的現金流、優化我們的資本結構並繼續投資於我們的業務的永久和全面計劃方面取得的真正進展。我知道我們今天給了你很多信息，但就在過去的 45 天裡，我們取得了令人難以置信的進步，而且還有更多的事情要做。

With that, David, Alex, Abhi and I will answer your questions. Thank you for your time.

有了這個，大衛、亞歷克斯、阿比和我將回答你的問題。感謝您的時間。

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you. We will now begin the Q&A session. (Operator Instructions) So let's go to the first question from Fernanda Recchia, sell-side analyst, BTG.

女士們，先生們，謝謝你們。我們現在將開始問答環節。 （操作員說明）讓我們來看看 BTG 賣方分析師 Fernanda Recchia 提出的第一個問題。

Congrats on the deal with lessors, you recently announced. Just your question from our side. I was wondering if you guys could provide us additional color regarding the terms agreed with the lessor, especially in terms of the equity portion of it. I was curious to see if you could provide us the strike price, you agreed with them? Or if you could give somehow any color on the potential equity dilution from the deal?

祝賀與出租人的交易，你最近宣布。只是我們這邊的問題。我想知道你們是否可以就與出租人商定的條款向我們提供更多顏色，尤其是在股權部分方面。我很好奇你是否可以向我們提供行使價，你同意他們的意見嗎？或者，您能否以某種方式對交易中潛在的股權稀釋給出任何顏色？

And second question, if you could please update us regarding the discussion with United Airlines. Is this something that it's behind or discussion are still ongoing?

第二個問題，能否請您更新我們與聯合航空公司的討論情況。這是它背後的事情還是討論仍在進行中？

JOHN

約翰

Let me start and Abhi and Alex can kind of add color to the rest of the questions. First of all, obviously, today's price does not reflect Azul's value, right? When you have a business that produces over $1 billion of EBITDA, and I think our partners recognize that. And so the strike price at which the lessors will come in is higher than it is today, but we're 90% done, and we'll communicate when we're 100% done with our lessors, right? And so it's more reflective of a 7, 8x multiple based on where we are, and it will give full recovery to our partners, and we're excited for them and excited for us. And it will minimize dilution to the company because it's not being done at today's prices, which don't reflect Azul's true value.

讓我開始吧，Abhi 和 Alex 可以為其餘的問題增添色彩。首先，很明顯，今天的價格並不能反映出Azul的價值，對吧？當您的企業產生超過 10 億美元的 EBITDA 時，我認為我們的合作夥伴會意識到這一點。因此，出租人進入的行使價高於今天，但我們已經完成了 90%，當我們與出租人完成 100% 時，我們會進行溝通，對嗎？因此，它更能反映我們所處位置的 7 倍、8 倍，這將使我們的合作夥伴完全康復，我們為他們感到興奮，也為我們感到興奮。而且它將最大程度地減少對公司的稀釋，因為它不是以今天的價格進行的，這不能反映 Azul 的真正價值。

And just to add to that, I think the main objective here that we had on this call today if you trace back to a little day, we talked about the BRL 3 billion cash gap. We talked about how it was the smallest cash gap since the pandemic happens. We said that obviously, the preferred alternative would be to access the capital markets to finance that cash gap. But if that weren't possible, we knew we could count on the support of our stakeholders. And we even provided some information that we were getting a lot of support from our stakeholders that in spite of us being very public about the cash challenges that we were facing, lessors, we're delivering new aircraft to us.

除此之外，我認為我們今天電話會議的主要目標是追溯到某一天，我們談到了 30 億巴西雷亞爾的現金缺口。我們談到這是自大流行發生以來最小的現金缺口。我們說過，顯然，首選的替代方案是進入資本市場以彌補現金缺口。但如果那不可能，我們知道我們可以依靠利益相關者的支持。我們甚至提供了一些信息，表明我們從利益相關者那裡得到了很多支持，儘管我們非常公開我們面臨的現金挑戰，出租人，我們正在向我們交付新飛機。

And we were seeing a narrative in the market that lessors -- it made sense for lessors to support airlines in 2020, but it didn't make sense to support in 2023, which obviously, we disagreed. And today, I think the main message that we wanted to communicate to the market is that, that support has materialized, right? And it's not because lessors are nice or because they like us. I mean I think they are nice and they think they like us, but that's not it, right? That is -- it's a good business decision, and they know that a company that produces more than $1 billion in EBITDA a year is not fairly priced at these levels, right?

我們在市場上看到出租人的說法——出租人在 2020 年支持航空公司是有意義的，但在 2023 年支持航空公司是沒有意義的，顯然，我們不同意這一點。今天，我認為我們想向市場傳達的主要信息是，這種支持已經實現，對吧？這並不是因為出租人很好或因為他們喜歡我們。我的意思是我認為他們很好，他們認為他們喜歡我們，但事實並非如此，對吧？也就是說 - 這是一個很好的商業決策，他們知道一家每年產生超過 10 億美元 EBITDA 的公司在這些水平上的定價並不公平，對吧？

And so we will provide additional color over time. We'll provide additional details. But as John said, we want to be fully finalized with our negotiations with lessors and over time, we will provide that information. We entered COVID as one of the most profitable airlines in the world. And we will end 2023 as one of the most profitable airlines in the world. COVID was in our fault. The devaluation of the currency was in our halt, but we've done enormous things to combat those challenges, including having our people going unpaid leave of absence.

因此，我們將隨著時間的推移提供更多顏色。我們將提供更多詳細信息。但正如約翰所說，我們希望與出租人的談判完全敲定，隨著時間的推移，我們將提供這些信息。我們進入 COVID 作為世界上最賺錢的航空公司之一。到 2023 年底，我們將成為世界上最賺錢的航空公司之一。 COVID 是我們的錯。貨幣貶值已停止，但我們已做了大量工作來應對這些挑戰，包括讓我們的員工無薪休假。

And so I think the market and our partners give us a lot of credit for what we've done. And they want to invest in Azul going forward because they know it's a good business issues. Well, I'll let Abhi talk through the relationship of the unit.

因此，我認為市場和我們的合作夥伴對我們所做的事情給予了很大的讚譽。他們希望在未來投資 Azul，因為他們知道這是一個很好的商業問題。好吧，還是讓阿比說完單位的關係吧。

About United, we have a great commercial partnership with them as we do with JetBlue with TAP, Air Europa and others as well. We continue that commercial partnership with connectivity in Brazil and in the U.S. We're always looking at opportunities, but there's nothing in the short term more than a commercial partnership to announce.

關於美聯航，我們與他們建立了良好的商業合作夥伴關係，就像我們與捷藍航空與 TAP、Air Europa 和其他公司的合作一樣。我們繼續與巴西和美國的連通性建立商業合作夥伴關係。我們一直在尋找機會，但短期內除了宣布商業合作夥伴關係之外別無他法。

The next question comes from Bruno Amorim, sell-side analyst from GS. Bruno, we will open your auto so that you can ask your question.

下一個問題來自 GS 的賣方分析師 Bruno Amorim。布魯諾，我們會打開你的汽車，這樣你就可以問你的問題了。

So my question is on the unit revenue assumption for the year as you laid out, your assumption seems to be conservative indeed. What can you comment in terms of this flattish RASK going forward in light of falling jet fuel prices, have you been feeling the pressure from the market to lower unit revenues? Or since everybody Azul included needing to see higher margins going forward means that even under lower jet fuel prices, the pressure is not there. Can you comment on that dynamic, please?

所以我的問題是關於你提出的年度單位收入假設，你的假設似乎確實是保守的。鑑於噴氣燃料價格下跌，您對這種持平的 RASK 有何評論？您是否感受到了來自市場的降低單位收入的壓力？或者，由於包括 Azul 在內的每個人都需要看到更高的利潤率，這意味著即使在較低的航空燃油價格下，壓力也不存在。你能評論一下那個動態嗎？

Overall, I think the industry is very disciplined, and I think the industry is going to be very disciplined. We certainly are doing our part. And if you look at the fourth quarter of last year, we were actually down 3% in capacity domestic, and that was because of fuel prices and the adjustments we made to our network.

總的來說，我認為這個行業非常有紀律，而且我認為這個行業將會非常有紀律。我們當然在儘自己的一份力量。如果你看看去年第四季度，我們的國內運力實際上下降了 3%，這是因為燃料價格和我們對網絡所做的調整。

Looking ahead this year, we're going to grow about 15% total but only about 6% to 8% domestic. And so we're not seeing the volume pressure or the load factor pressure that would cause us to sacrifice the hard work that the industry has done in increasing average fares. I think the industry did a really good job when the war started last year. And I think that overall, we want to keep those gains.

展望今年，我們將增長約 15%，但國內增長僅為 6% 至 8%。因此，我們沒有看到會導致我們犧牲該行業在提高平均票價方面所做的辛勤工作的容量壓力或載客率壓力。我認為去年戰爭開始時，該行業做得非常好。我認為總的來說，我們希望保持這些收益。

The customer is used to these new prices, customers are not asking for lower prices. And in fact, as we talk today, we're just coming off the last 7 days, as John referenced, record booking revenues. And so we're seeing good momentum on the booking side. Our intention certainly is to be very disciplined on the average fare side, not give back the gains regardless if fuel goes down or not. And I think the industry overall wants to recover the profitability in the best way possible.

客戶已經習慣了這些新價格，客戶不會要求更低的價格。事實上，正如我們今天所說的那樣，正如約翰所提到的那樣，我們剛剛結束過去 7 天的預訂收入記錄。因此，我們在預訂方面看到了良好的勢頭。我們的意圖當然是在平均票價方面非常有紀律，無論燃油是否下降，都不會放棄收益。而且我認為整個行業都希望以最好的方式恢復盈利能力。

And then if I may, just a quick follow-up. So your guidance implies an EBITDA margin of at least 25%, right, EUR 5 billion EBITDA, EUR 20 billion revenues. Should we think about the target as around 30%, which was the pre-pandemic level? Is that the level that you are targeting for the next couple of years? Or are you thinking differently?

然後，如果可以的話，只是快速跟進。因此，您的指導意味著 EBITDA 利潤率至少為 25%，對，50 億歐元的 EBITDA，200 億歐元的收入。我們是否應該將目標定在 30% 左右，這是大流行前的水平？這是您未來幾年的目標水平嗎？或者你有不同的想法？

But there's no reason why we shouldn't get back to those levels, right? And so we showed you what we did in the fourth quarter at a 25% EBITDA margin. We're going into 2023 with lower fuel prices, a strong revenue environment. And so there's no reason why this business shouldn't be there. So if we don't get there, it will be a big disappointment. And we're not saying that we're going to get there in 2023, but we're -- obviously, that's our target going forward, and we're going to continue to kind of go after it.

但我們沒有理由不回到那些水平，對吧？因此，我們向您展示了我們在第四季度以 25% 的 EBITDA 利潤率所做的工作。我們將以較低的燃油價格和強勁的收入環境進入 2023 年。因此，沒有理由不存在這項業務。因此，如果我們沒有到達那裡，那將是一個很大的失望。我們並不是說我們將在 2023 年實現這一目標，但我們 - 顯然，這是我們前進的目標，我們將繼續追求它。

Thanks so much and congratulations.

非常感謝和祝賀。

The next question now comes from Gabriel (inaudible), sell-side analyst from Itau BBA.

下一個問題現在來自 Itau BBA 的賣方分析師 Gabriel（聽不清）。

Hello, everyone. Thanks for giving the space to make the questions on our side as well. One regarding your announcement regarding the negotiations with lasers. So just trying to confirm here, the debt during 2030, you will not be convertible, right? So just confirming that. And also just try to get a color on what the cash outflows regarding (inaudible) should be in the coming years until it is paid fully in 2030.

大家好。感謝您提供空間讓我們也提出問題。一個關於你關於與激光談判的公告。所以只是想在這裡確認一下，2030 年期間的債務，您將無法轉換，對嗎？所以只是確認一下。並且還只是嘗試弄清楚未來幾年（聽不清）的現金流出應該是多少，直到 2030 年全額支付。

And also on the operational front, I was just trying to get your color your view on what your expectations are for the room you have to recover things back to pre-pandemic levels regarding your passengers. So for example, corporate customers, they're still not back to pre-COVID-19 laws. I just like to understand what is the additional room that you have to expand on those clients? And what is already incorporated in your guidance for a $5 billion EBITDA in 2023 as well?

同樣在運營方面，我只是想讓你了解你對房間的期望，你必須將乘客的情況恢復到大流行前的水平。因此，例如，企業客戶，他們仍然沒有回到 COVID-19 之前的法律。我只是想了解您必須為這些客戶擴展的額外空間是多少？您對 2023 年 50 億美元的 EBITDA 的指導中已經包含了什麼？

Correct. The 2030 note is not convertible. In terms of cash outflow outflows in coming years, that is additional detail that we are looking forward to providing to you over time. Once we conclude all of these negotiations. And like we said, this plan is a comprehensive plan that involves more than what we've done so far. But I think the main message is the negative BRL 3 billion that we had for 2023 is going to be breakeven, and we had talked about a breakeven for 2024, which is now going to be positive and should be positive every year after that, right? And we look forward to providing you with additional details over time.

正確的。 2030 年票據不可兌換。就未來幾年的現金流出而言，這是我們期待隨著時間的推移向您提供的更多詳細信息。一旦我們完成所有這些談判。正如我們所說，該計劃是一項全面的計劃，涉及的內容比我們迄今為止所做的還要多。但我認為主要的信息是我們在 2023 年的負 30 億雷亞爾將實現盈虧平衡，我們已經討論過 2024 年的盈虧平衡，現在將是正的，之後每年都應該是正的，對吧？隨著時間的推移，我們期待為您提供更多詳細信息。

Gabriel, about the opportunities, I can just think of 3 quick ones. So corporate, you are correct. We are seeing about 85% corporate volume recovery. Revenue is above 100% because the average fares are 50% higher. So we are over 100% in revenue but still corporate volumes are 85%, and we expect that recovery to continue. Another great opportunity we have is our utilization. You will notice our utilization is still below our pre-pandemic levels. And that's for a couple of reasons.

加布里埃爾，關於機會，我只能想到 3 個快速機會。所以公司，你是對的。我們看到大約 85% 的企業銷量恢復。收入高於 100%，因為平均票價高出 50%。因此，我們的收入超過 100%，但企業銷量仍為 85%，我們預計復甦將繼續。我們擁有的另一個絕佳機會是我們的利用。您會注意到我們的利用率仍低於大流行前的水平。這是出於幾個原因。

One is higher fuel. As you have higher fuel, you tend to reduce your flights that are at the end of the day, early at the day or nights and weekends, as fuel is coming down and stabilize at these levels, we are seeing opportunities to increase utilization, which is obviously very, very positive for EBITDA. International, at the end of last year, we were still only about 85% to 88% recovered in terms of our international network. And by the end of this year, we will be 100% recovered in our international network. So that's future opportunity as well.

一是更高的燃料。由於燃油量增加，您往往會減少一天結束、清晨或夜間和周末的航班，隨著燃油下降並穩定在這些水平，我們看到了提高利用率的機會，這顯然對 EBITDA 非常非常積極。國際，到去年年底，我們的國際網絡仍然只恢復了大約 85% 到 88%。到今年年底，我們的國際網絡將 100% 恢復。所以這也是未來的機會。

So overall, we're seeing great momentum with the industry with discipline, with demand, and there's still some significant upside to come.

因此，總的來說，我們看到該行業在紀律和需求方面的強勁勢頭，而且仍有一些顯著的上行空間。

I just want to highlight a couple of things. We just removed the masks last week, okay? And so you think about where is the demand potential going? And Brazil, we just had over Carnival. -- mask finally came off last week. And so I think there's a lot of runway. Unemployment in Brazil is at a multiyear low. We're seeing good economic activity overall. And so I think we feel good about the macro environment here, the first time in quite a few years.

我只想強調幾件事。我們上周剛摘下面具，好嗎？所以你想一想需求潛力在哪裡？而巴西，我們剛剛結束了狂歡節。 ——上週終於摘下了面具。所以我認為有很多跑道。巴西的失業率處於多年低點。我們看到整體經濟活動良好。所以我認為我們對這裡的宏觀環境感覺良好，這是幾年來的第一次。

The next question now comes from Stephen Trent sell-side analyst from Citi. Stephan, we're going to open your audio so that you can ask your question.

下一個問題現在來自花旗的 Stephen Trent 賣方分析師。斯蒂芬，我們將打開您的音頻，以便您提出問題。

I was curious, I would just -- on a long-term basis, I love to get your view on a high-level basis on how you might be thinking about long-term consolidation in Brazil, not only the back of the solid results this morning, but of this great deal that you've reached with the lessors.

我很好奇，我只是 - 從長遠來看，我喜歡從高層的角度了解你對巴西長期整合的看法，而不僅僅是穩固結果的支持今天早上，但是關於你與出租人達成的大量協議。

Steve, I always think it's a possibility. That's something that we've talked about. But this is about focusing on Azul and I think that, that's what we're very excited about. And so when you look at our $20 billion of revenue this year, the EBITDA performance, the cash gap closing, the cash flows going into '24 and beyond, that assumes no cooperation consolidation, anything along those lines. We'll study it if there's an opportunity there. But what we believe so much in the core business that we've built.

史蒂夫，我一直認為這是可能的。這是我們已經談過的事情。但這是關於專注於 Azul，我認為，這就是我們非常興奮的地方。因此，當您查看我們今年 200 億美元的收入、EBITDA 業績、現金缺口縮小、進入 24 世紀及以後的現金流時，假設沒有合作整合，任何類似的東西。如果那裡有機會，我們會研究它。但是我們非常相信我們已經建立的核心業務。

We've got 13,500 in crew members that are kind of delivering on a daily basis to deliver an unbelievably great experience. And as I said earlier, one of the most profitable airlines in the world, we just had an overhang because of COVID and the devaluation of our currency. And we've addressed that and we've addressed that in a big way. And as Alex said, it's not a stop gap, it's not a Band-Aid. We've addressed it once and for all and we're ready to move forward.

我們有 13,500 名工作人員，他們每天都在提供令人難以置信的出色體驗。正如我之前所說，作為世界上最賺錢的航空公司之一，我們只是因為 COVID 和我們的貨幣貶值而面臨困境。我們已經解決了這個問題，而且我們已經在很大程度上解決了這個問題。正如亞歷克斯所說，這不是權宜之計，也不是創可貼。我們已經一勞永逸地解決了這個問題，我們已準備好繼續前進。

And if I could just follow up real quickly on one item. I spent most of the last 2 months hearing from your U.S.-based counterparts about kind of challenges, trying to find pilots. How are you guys seeing it down there in terms of your pilot supply.

如果我能真正快速地跟進一個項目。在過去 2 個月的大部分時間裡，我都在聽你們的美國同行談論各種挑戰，試圖尋找飛行員。你們如何看待你們的試點供應。

Brazil has a really rich history of aviation. And so we have a great pipeline of flight schools that we partner with. We actually use even our Caravan operation as a mini flight school inside of Azul to prepare our pilots to enter into our fleet. So we're not seeing any constraints when it comes to pilots or even staffing overall. And actually, we're actually more efficient right now. And so in terms of our overall staffing, but no limitations in terms of pilot hiring.

巴西擁有非常豐富的航空歷史。因此，我們擁有大量與之合作的飛行學校。實際上，我們甚至將我們的大篷車運營用作 Azul 內部的小型飛行學校，讓我們的飛行員為進入我們的機隊做好準備。因此，在飛行員甚至整體人員配備方面，我們沒有看到任何限制。實際上，我們現在更有效率了。因此，就我們的整體人員配置而言，但在試點招聘方面沒有限制。

The next question comes from Stefan Styk, sell-side analyst, Bank of America. Stefan, we're going to open your audio so that you can ask your question.

下一個問題來自美國銀行賣方分析師 Stefan Styk。 Stefan，我們將打開您的音頻，以便您提出問題。

I wanted to ask on the new 2030 notes. Will these be secured or unsecured? And can you provide any other details on the terms like size, interest rate, potential call schedule and things like that? And then my other question is on the capital plan slide. It seems to imply that there's something coming up with bondholders and potentially new money component as well. Can you expand on what options you're seeing here as well as our timing? Thank you.

我想問一下新的 2030 年紙幣。這些是有擔保的還是無擔保的？您能否提供有關規模、利率、潛在通話時間表等條款的任何其他詳細信息？然後我的另一個問題是關於資本計劃幻燈片。這似乎意味著債券持有人和潛在的新貨幣成分即將出現。您能否詳細說明您在這裡看到的選項以及我們的時間安排？謝謝。

The 2030 notes are unsecured. We talked about, we're very excited to share more details and as we normally do, right? I think you know us for our transparency, we just want to be really finalized with all of our lessors before we do that. But we'll provide that information in due time. I mean obviously, I think similarly to the valuation that we're talking about to the equity, the coupon and the debt -- the cost of debt on this instrument is nowhere near the levels that you're seeing on the screen because again, they do not reflect the health of the restructured company. The interest that we will pay will be reflective of the improved cash generation, the stronger balance sheet and the reduced credit risk. And like I said, we'll provide that as soon as we can.

2030年票據是無抵押的。我們討論過，我們很高興能像往常一樣分享更多細節，對吧？我想你了解我們的透明度，我們只是想在我們這樣做之前與我們所有的出租人真正敲定。但我們會在適當的時候提供該信息。我的意思是，很明顯，我認為類似於我們正在談論的股票、息票和債務的估值——這種工具的債務成本遠不及你在屏幕上看到的水平，因為，它們不反映重組後公司的健康狀況。我們將支付的利息將反映現金生成的改善、資產負債表的增強和信用風險的降低。就像我說的，我們會盡快提供。

As it looks towards our 2024 bonds or 2026 bonds, I think that that's a conversation we plan to have, and we'll have that with the bondholders, right? And I think that you can see how we treat our stakeholders and the bondholders are part of our stakeholder group. But as you look to new money, and the unencumbered assets that we have, no one wants to bring in new capital to Azul to pay for COVID deferrals, right? And so the new capital that comes into Azul is to fund our growth going forward, strengthen the balance sheet, have us continue to take E2s and A320neos and that's the intention.

在展望我們的 2024 年債券或 2026 年債券時，我認為這是我們計劃進行的對話，我們將與債券持有人進行對話，對嗎？我認為您可以看到我們如何對待我們的利益相關者，債券持有人是我們利益相關者群體的一部分。但是當你尋找新資金和我們擁有的未支配資產時，沒有人願意為 Azul 帶來新資金來支付 COVID 延期，對吧？因此，進入 Azul 的新資本是為我們未來的增長提供資金，加強資產負債表，讓我們繼續採用 E2 和 A320neos，這就是我們的意圖。

And so you really can't go to the capital markets using to Azul or other unencumbered assets that you have to raise new capital just to pay back old stuff, right? And so this is a true reset. This is a true fix -- a permanent fix of the balance sheet that works for our crew members. It works for our lessors, it works for our bondholders, it works for everybody. And so yes, that is the idea. And I think the fact that we got through 2020 and 2021 with $5 billion of unencumbered assets, I think the potential is limitless for what we have to do going forward.

所以你真的不能去資本市場使用 Azul 或其他你必須籌集新資本來償還舊資產的無抵押資產，對吧？所以這是一次真正的重置。這是一個真正的解決方案——對我們的機組人員有效的資產負債表的永久性修復。它適用於我們的出租人，它適用於我們的債券持有人，它適用於每個人。所以是的，就是這個想法。我認為我們在 2020 年和 2021 年擁有 50 億美元的未支配資產這一事實，我認為我們未來要做的事情的潛力是無限的。

The next question now comes from Daniel McKenzie sell-side analyst from Seaport Global. Daniel, we're going to open your auto so that you can ask your question.

下一個問題現在來自 Seaport Global 的賣方分析師 Daniel McKenzie。丹尼爾，我們要打開你的汽車，這樣你就可以問你的問題了。

You want to move on to the next one, and if Dan can try again.

你想繼續下一個，如果 Dan 可以再試一次。

Can you hear me, okay?

你能聽到我說話嗎？

Yes.

是的。

So sorry about that. A couple of questions here. One is just on the pace of potential pretax earnings recovery. So just a question for Abhi here. Revenue is strong. Growth looks like it's going to be double digits into the weakest quarters of the year. So the question is, can Azul reached a quarterly pretax profit in any of the quarters this year?

很抱歉。這裡有幾個問題。一個是潛在的稅前收益復甦的步伐。所以這裡只問 Abhi 一個問題。收入強勁。在今年最疲軟的季度中，增長看起來將達到兩位數。那麼問題來了，Azul 能否在今年的任何一個季度實現季度稅前利潤？

So I think the main key there, Dan, as you know, the main volatility that comes on the net income line comes from FX, right? So I think assuming stable FX or even some tailwinds coming from that, yes, that is a possibility. We don't give guidance on a net income basis. I think all of you that have modeled us for the last few years, that's probably the hardest line to model. But in terms of business fundamentals, strength of demand, unit cost, unit revenue size and especially with a restructured balance sheet, right, because the operation is strong, generates a lot of profit, a lot of cash. And now with a balance sheet and an interest expense that fits within the company and is consistent with the profitability of the company. That's certainly a possibility, depending on what happens with the exchange rate.

所以我認為那裡的主要關鍵，丹，如你所知，淨收入線上的主要波動來自外匯，對吧？所以我認為假設穩定的外匯或什至從中獲得一些順風，是的，這是有可能的。我們不以淨收入為基礎提供指導。我認為過去幾年為我們建模的所有人，這可能是最難建模的。但就業務基本面、需求強度、單位成本、單位收入規模，尤其是重組後的資產負債表而言，正確的是，因為運營強勁，產生了大量利潤，大量現金。現在，資產負債表和利息支出適合公司內部，並且與公司的盈利能力一致。這當然是有可能的，這取決於匯率的變化。

Yes, that's exactly my question. With the restructured debt reduced interest expense, it would seem like it would be a lower hurdle for you guys to get there. And then is the plan to encumber or was TudoAzul or the cargo business encumbered. It doesn't look like it was. And I guess if it was not, -- what was the thought process around not encumbering those? Because at least outside looking in, it seems like it might have been an opportunity to lower the cost of borrowing. But if you can just elaborate a little bit more on kind of how you approach the restructuring.

是的，這正是我的問題。隨著重組債務減少的利息支出，你們實現目標的障礙似乎會降低。然後是阻礙或被 TudoAzul 或貨運業務阻礙的計劃。它看起來不像是。我想如果不是， - 圍繞不妨礙這些的思考過程是什麼？因為至少從外部來看，這似乎是一個降低借貸成本的機會。但是，如果你能更詳細地說明你是如何進行重組的。

Dan, when we look, we were able to borrow unsecured in 2021 at 7.38%, right? And so the market was open to us at that time. I think it's a blessing that we got through the pandemic without encumbering our assets, right? And so I think that now we're going to play from a position of strength. We fixed the balance sheet with the lessors, which, again, as Alex showed, is 80% of the problem. And so the fact that we have the security associated with our cargo business associated with TudoAzul, I think that provides the opportunity as we move forward, right? And we want to make sure that we use that for the best interest of Azul's long-term plan, not just a Band-Aid during COVID. And so now we have an opportunity to do something with those assets.

丹，當我們看的時候，我們能夠在 2021 年以 7.38% 的利率借到無抵押貸款，對嗎？所以當時市場對我們是開放的。我認為我們在沒有阻礙我們資產的情況下度過了大流行病是一件幸事，對吧？所以我認為現在我們要發揮優勢。我們與出租人一起修復了資產負債表，正如亞歷克斯所展示的那樣，這又是 80% 的問題。因此，我們擁有與 TudoAzul 相關的貨運業務相關的安全性這一事實，我認為這為我們前進提供了機會，對吧？我們希望確保我們將其用於 Azul 長期計劃的最大利益，而不僅僅是 COVID 期間的創可貼。所以現在我們有機會用這些資產做點什麼。

That's how we see it, right? Having those unencumbered assets is a good thing. And look, when the markets were open, there was no need to encumber the assets, we could accept a reasonable cost of debt without encumbering the assets and save those for a rainy day. When the bond is trading at the levels that we were seeing over the last few weeks that did not really reflect the fundamentals of the business or the strength of the support that we knew we could count on. It didn't make sense for us to issue any kind of security even if it was collateralized because it would be anchored on these rates, right?

這就是我們的看法，對吧？擁有這些未支配的資產是一件好事。看，當市場開放時，沒有必要抵押資產，我們可以接受合理的債務成本而不抵押資產，以備不時之需。當債券交易在我們過去幾週看到的水平時，並沒有真正反映業務的基本面或我們知道我們可以依靠的支持力度。我們發行任何類型的證券都沒有意義，即使它是抵押品，因為它會以這些利率為基礎，對吧？

And there's a logic here to the sequencing because once we -- everybody realizes that there's no risk to this company that the company is going to continue producing above average or industry-leading profits and growing, we should see a cost of equity and a cost of debt that is more in line with the company. And then providing some additional collateral to reduce that cost of debt even further, that's the right time to utilize the asset.

這裡的排序是有邏輯的，因為一旦我們 - 每個人都意識到這家公司沒有風險，公司將繼續產生高於平均水平或行業領先的利潤並增長，我們應該看到股權成本和成本與公司更相符的債務。然後提供一些額外的抵押品以進一步降低債務成本，這是利用資產的正確時機。

The next question comes from Victor Mizusaki sell-side analyst from Bradesco BBI.

下一個問題來自 Bradesco BBI 的賣方分析師 Victor Mizusaki。

Congrats for the restructuring and the portal results. We have 2 questions here. The first one, I mean, according to our numbers, LATAM had a kind of aggressive capacity expansion plan for the second quarter. So how do you expect Latin to react as Azul and go restructure the balance sheet? So do you expect LATAM to pull back some capacity, and then we are talking about, let's say, even the we talk about the low season, we're talking about higher yields and the higher margins.

祝賀重組和門戶網站的結果。我們在這裡有 2 個問題。第一個，我的意思是，根據我們的數據，LATAM 在第二季度製定了一種積極的產能擴張計劃。那麼，您如何期望 Latin 像 Azul 一樣做出反應並重組資產負債表？那麼，您是否希望 LATAM 撤回一些產能，然後我們正在談論，比方說，即使我們談論淡季，我們也在談論更高的收益率和更高的利潤率。

And the second question is regarding to the Slide #21, when you mentioned about the OEMs and CapEx. So my question is if here, we're talking about kind of a permanent reduction. And if this only for 2023. And if this is a kind of permanent reduction, can we say that maybe you will also change maybe the fleet planning or many thing about the deliveries? And maybe you could get additional discounts.

第二個問題是關於幻燈片 #21，當你提到 OEM 和資本支出時。所以我的問題是，如果在這裡，我們談論的是一種永久性的減少。如果這僅適用於 2023 年。如果這是一種永久性減少，我們可以說也許您還會改變機隊規劃或有關交付的許多事情嗎？也許您可以獲得額外的折扣。

Regarding industry capacity, obviously, I cannot speak to LATAM directly. But we've looked at the guidance that they've put out. They go has also put out capacity guidance -- and overall, we think the industry domestically is going to grow about 8% to 10% this year versus 2019. So I actually don't think that, that bad, to be honest with you, I think it's pretty disciplined overall. I think we're going to be about 6% to 8% domestically, the industry overall, about 8% to 10%.

關於行業能力，顯然，我不能直接與 LATAM 交談。但我們已經查看了他們發布的指南。他們還發布了產能指導——總的來說，我們認為今年國內行業將比 2019 年增長 8% 到 10%。所以我實際上不認為那很糟糕，老實說，我認為它整體上非常有紀律。我認為我們在國內的佔比約為 6% 至 8%，整個行業約為 8% 至 10%。

And so I think everybody is being pretty disciplined. I think all airlines want to recover the profitability that we lost over the last couple of years. I think, as I said before, the customer is willing to pay the prices that are out there. We're not seeing drops in demand or in fact, we think demand is stronger than ever. And I think airlines will adjust based on the load factors and the demand that they are seeing. So looking at overall industry capacity, I think it's going to be about 8% to 10% above 2019 levels, which I think is pretty decent overall given the level of demand that we're seeing.

所以我認為每個人都非常自律。我認為所有航空公司都希望恢復我們在過去幾年中失去的盈利能力。我認為，正如我之前所說，客戶願意支付現有的價格。我們沒有看到需求下降，或者事實上，我們認為需求比以往任何時候都強勁。而且我認為航空公司會根據載客率和他們看到的需求進行調整。因此，從整體行業產能來看，我認為這將比 2019 年水平高出約 8% 至 10%，考慮到我們所看到的需求水平，我認為這總體上是相當不錯的。

Victor, I just want to highlight another thing, too, I just want to remind everybody that our capacity, 75% of it now and 80% of it going forward is on next-gen aircraft, A320neos and E2s, right? And so I think that's an important distinction. And the other thing that you highlighted, Azul's not going anywhere, GOL is not going anywhere. LATAM is not going anywhere, right? And so it makes sense for us to all act rationally in the market and price according to the cost structure that exists in Brazil today. And I think that's the big message, right? And so again, we have more ASKs on next-gen aircraft by a wide margin compared to our competitors, right?

維克多，我也想強調另一件事，我只想提醒大家，我們的容量，現在的 75% 和未來的 80% 是在下一代飛機上，A320neos 和 E2s，對嗎？所以我認為這是一個重要的區別。你強調的另一件事是，Azul 不會去任何地方，GOL 也不會去任何地方。 LATAM 哪兒也去不了，對吧？因此，根據巴西當今存在的成本結構，我們所有人在市場和價格中理性行事是有意義的。我認為這是重要信息，對吧？因此，與我們的競爭對手相比，我們在下一代飛機上的 ASK 數量要多得多，對吧？

And so when you talk about kind of the cost structure in Brazil, we have the lowest cost in Brazil, flying A320neos. We have the lowest cost in Brazil flying E2s. And so I think we're very well positioned. And I think the market will be very disciplined. And the exit financing of our competitors is a high cost of capital, right? And everybody needs to earn a return to pay for that cost of capital.

所以當你談到巴西的成本結構時，我們在巴西的成本最低，飛的是 A320neos。我們在巴西飛行 E2 的成本最低。所以我認為我們的定位非常好。而且我認為市場將非常有紀律。而我們競爭對手的退出融資是一個很高的資金成本，對吧？每個人都需要賺取回報來支付資本成本。

And on the OEMs, Victor, very similar concept to the lessors. We started with lessors, right, because the lessors as we mentioned, represent almost 80% of our cash commitments. And we started talking to the OEMs about 2 weeks after the lessors. So the OEMs are maybe kind of 2 weeks behind on the sequencing. And similarly to what we mentioned on the lessors, once we are done with the negotiations with the OEMs, we'll be happy to provide additional information. But the concept, you can already rest assured that it's the same 2030 note, same calculation for the dilution. So a very similar concept, and we'll provide that detail in due time.

在 OEM 上，Victor 的概念與出租人非常相似。我們從出租人開始，對，因為我們提到的出租人幾乎占我們現金承諾的 80%。我們在出租人之後大約 2 週開始與原始設備製造商交談。所以原始設備製造商可能在排序上落後了 2 週。與我們在出租人中提到的類似，一旦我們完成與原始設備製造商的談判，我們將很樂意提供更多信息。但是這個概念，你已經可以放心，它是同一張 2030 年紙幣，同樣的稀釋計算。這是一個非常相似的概念，我們將在適當的時候提供詳細信息。

And Victor, one other thing I want to highlight is the OEMs are our partners, specifically Embraer here in Brazil as well as GE, where we overhaul all of our engines in Brazil. Had we decided to overall our engines outside of Brazil would have XM financing. And so one of the big things that we're pushing jointly with our OEM partners is -- if I'm going to overhaul engines in Brazil, I should get access to financing of that, right? And so that's something that we're working jointly with the new government on. We're working with our partners at GE and Embraer, and I think that, that's good for everybody.

維克多，我想強調的另一件事是原始設備製造商是我們的合作夥伴，特別是巴西航空工業公司和通用電氣，我們在巴西檢修了我們所有的發動機。如果我們決定在巴西以外的地方對我們的引擎進行整體設計，我們將獲得 XM 融資。因此，我們與 OEM 合作夥伴共同推動的一件大事是——如果我要在巴西檢修發動機，我應該獲得融資，對嗎？因此，這就是我們正在與新政府共同努力的事情。我們正在與通用電氣和巴西航空工業公司的合作夥伴合作，我認為這對每個人都有好處。

And so the OEM relationship is a little different than the lessors, right? It's a little bit more complex because of the different negotiations we have ongoing with Embraer and GE and Pratt & Whitney and Airbus and ATR, but they've been very constructive and very supportive. Why? Because we have a fantastic business and they see that.

所以 OEM 關係與出租人有點不同，對吧？由於我們與 Embraer 和 GE 以及 Pratt & Whitney 和 Airbus 以及 ATR 正在進行的不同談判，這有點複雜，但他們非常有建設性和非常支持。為什麼？因為我們的業務很棒，他們看到了這一點。

So the next question comes now from Michael Linenberg, sell-side analyst from Deutsche Mark Bank.

那麼下一個問題現在來自德國馬克銀行的賣方分析師 Michael Linenberg。

Congrats on the news, obviously. Just a couple of questions here as best as you can sort of give us on some of the numbers. Maybe, Alex, when we think about your interest expense this last year, it was BRL 4.6 billion. And when I look forward, at least with the charts that you've provided, does that -- as a result of these restructured deals, does that come down? Like what's the appropriate interest expense that we should think about going forward?

顯然，恭喜這個消息。這裡只有幾個問題，你可以盡可能地給我們一些數字。也許，亞歷克斯，當我們考慮你去年的利息支出時，它是 46 億雷亞爾。當我展望未來時，至少在你提供的圖表中，是否——作為這些重組交易的結果，它會下降嗎？比如我們應該考慮未來的適當利息支出是多少？

Yes, absolutely. It comes down, Mike. If you remember, the $4.6 billion number, right, it's a big number for those of us that long for the days before IFRS 16, that's -- most of that number is the rent, right? So if you're looking on a cash basis, right, the way we kind of talk about our cash GAAP or our free cash flow, if you include the total rent payments, that most of that interest comes from the rent payment is already included in that rent payment. And since that rent payment is going to go down, that interest expense should go down as well.

是的，一點沒錯。它下來了，邁克。如果您還記得，46 億美元的數字，對，對於我們這些期待 IFRS 16 之前的日子的人來說，這是一個很大的數字，那是——這個數字的大部分是租金，對吧？因此，如果您正在尋找現金基礎，對，我們談論我們的現金 GAAP 或我們的自由現金流的方式，如果您包括總租金支付，那麼大部分利息來自租金支付已經包括在內在那筆租金中。由於租金將下降，利息支出也應該下降。

There's going to be an additional -- we have a little bit of non operating lease debt that will remain. That interest should stay roughly the same. And then the 2030 note will have an interest component, right? Happy to provide that detail once we have it once we're all done with this part, but the net result should be a reduction in the interest expense.

將會有一個額外的 - 我們將保留一些非經營性租賃債務。這種興趣應該大致保持不變。然後 2030 年的票據會有利息成分，對嗎？一旦我們完成了這部分，我們很樂意提供詳細信息，但最終結果應該是減少利息費用。

And then in the release, you do highlight or state that going forward, we should see a measurable reduction in CapEx in 2023 and beyond. And the way I think about it is this last year, you saw your lease liabilities go up by $1.8 billion. As I sort of tie that to CapEx, going forward, what is that number going to look like rather than giving me a CapEx number, what should we anticipate that lease liabilities would grow based on new airplanes coming in maybe '23, '24? Rough numbers would be great.

然後在新聞稿中，您確實強調或聲明未來，我們應該會看到 2023 年及以後的資本支出有可觀的減少。我的想法是去年，你看到你的租賃負債增加了 18 億美元。當我將其與資本支出聯繫起來時，展望未來，這個數字會是什麼樣子而不是給我一個資本支出數字，我們應該如何預期租賃負債會根據可能在 23 年、24 年到來的新飛機而增長？粗略的數字會很棒。

That's an important question, Mike, as I always like to highlight that the CapEx that we're talking about does not include any new aircraft CapEx because for the next couple of years, all of the aircraft that will be joining the fleet come from lessor orders. So there's some CapEx related to new aircraft. The whole CapEx that you were seeing in our cash flow projections were for maintenance, and they also had a big component of COVID deferrals.

這是一個重要的問題，邁克，正如我一直想強調的那樣，我們談論的資本支出不包括任何新飛機的資本支出，因為在接下來的幾年裡，所有將加入機隊的飛機都來自出租人命令。所以有一些與新飛機相關的資本支出。您在我們的現金流量預測中看到的整個資本支出都是為了維護，它們也有很大一部分是 COVID 延期。

(inaudible) other stakeholders, our OEMs also provided us with credit to get through the pandemic. They're providing us with additional credit. They are exchanging past dues for the equity and debt structure that we mentioned. So the big reduction will come from the elimination of the COVID deferrals and an additional reduction in the resulting or remaining maintenance CapEx through additional credit from the OEMs.

（聽不清）其他利益相關者，我們的原始設備製造商也為我們提供了度過大流行病的信貸。他們為我們提供了額外的信用。他們正在用我們提到的股權和債務結構交換過去的會費。因此，大幅減少將來自 COVID 延期的消除，以及通過 OEM 的額外信貸進一步減少由此產生或剩餘的維護資本支出。

And then as John mentioned, the credit lines that we are developing together, Azul and the OEMs to make sure that this big part of our financing need is finance, right, because other airlines in the world that maintain their engines, which is the majority of the CapEx here is engines on our E1 as they maintain their engines, they get financing, and we've been paying cash for all of our maintenance events.

然後正如 John 提到的，我們正在共同開發的信貸額度，Azul 和原始設備製造商確保我們融資需求的很大一部分是融資，對吧，因為世界上其他維護髮動機的航空公司佔大多數這裡的資本支出是我們 E1 上的引擎，因為他們維護引擎，他們獲得融資，我們一直在為所有維護活動支付現金。

Mike, it makes no sense to have the Brazilian Development Bank financing subsidized U.S. carriers.

邁克，讓巴西開發銀行資助美國航空公司是沒有意義的。

Right. I hear you.

正確的。我聽到你了。

All we do for Brazil, the jobs we create, we buy the aircraft that's made here in Brazil. And so I think that -- I think we got a great case together with GE and Embraer to ensure that there's more financing lines available with BNDS.

我們為巴西所做的一切，我們創造的就業機會，我們購買的飛機都是在巴西製造的。所以我認為——我認為我們與 GE 和 Embraer 一起得到了一個很好的案例，以確保 BNDS 有更多可用的融資額度。

And John, you're basically the only one. You are the only Brazilian airline buying Brazil. And so just a few more because this is obviously an important call. And again, I appreciate that you still haven't finalized everything, but again, I'm trying to get a sense of some of the impact here. If I look at your leases on your balance sheet at year-end, short term, long term, I get to a number of about $14.5 billion how much like -- can you give me just a rough number, like what percent? Is it half? Is it 40% that will tie to this 2030 note and the equity piece? Is it some portion? Are you going to tell me all that is affected? I'm trying to get a feel for how much of the cap structure actually changes and there is a deleveraging moment here, too.

約翰，基本上只有你一個。您是唯一一家收購巴西的巴西航空公司。還有一些，因為這顯然是一個重要的電話。再一次，我很感激你還沒有完成所有的事情，但我再次嘗試了解這裡的一些影響。如果我在年底、短期、長期查看資產負債表上的租約，我得到大約 145 億美元的數字——你能給我一個粗略的數字嗎，比如百分之幾？是一半嗎？是 40% 與這張 2030 年票據和股權掛鉤嗎？是一部分嗎？你要告訴我所有受影響的東西嗎？我試圖了解有多少上限結構實際發生了變化，這裡也有一個去槓桿化的時刻。

We think about it in the following way. You need to take our COVID deferrals, right? And that's that 60-40 split. And then you need to take a look at all of our aircraft and say, "Hey, how much was Azul paying for an Embraer versus current market? And that difference. And so it varies, right? In some aircraft, it's as much as a 50% reduction in the rent and Summit is 0 reduction in the rent, right? And so if you take a look at it and -- but the big component is the COVID deferrals and then we did the mark-to-market with the lessors.

我們通過以下方式考慮它。您需要接受我們的 COVID 延期，對嗎？這就是 60-40 的比例。然後你需要看看我們所有的飛機，然後說，“嘿，Azul 為巴西航空工業公司支付的價格與當前市場價格相比是多少？還有這種差異。因此它會有所不同，對吧？在某些飛機上，它高達租金減少 50% 而 Summit 是租金減少 0，對嗎？因此，如果您看一下它，但重要的組成部分是 COVID 延期，然後我們按市值計價出租人。

But Alex said 90% were there right now. The other 10% we're negotiating with, and we believe we're going to get there. So of that debt that you're seeing on the balance sheet, all of it will be touched in some form, right? It doesn't mean that it goes away, but it will turn into 20, 30 notes, some of it in equity and some of it is going to remain where is. But everybody is participating, everybody supporting the plan. And I think that's the most important kind of message that we want to have today.

但亞歷克斯說現在有 90% 的人在那裡。我們正在與之談判的其他 10%，我們相信我們會到達那裡。所以你在資產負債表上看到的那些債務，所有這些都會以某種形式被觸及，對吧？這並不意味著它會消失，但它會變成 20、30 張紙幣，其中一些在資產中，一些將保留在原處。但每個人都在參與，每個人都支持這個計劃。我認為這是我們今天想要傳達的最重要的信息。

I know everybody is dying for more details. And this is a phenomenal accomplishment that Alex and his team have done in a 45-day period, right? And so why are we at 100% yet. Well, quite honestly, we're going to get there. We're probably going to get there in the next couple of weeks, right? And so I've never seen anybody restructure their balance sheet and the speed at which Azul has done it and they've done it out of court, and they've done it on an amicable way. Why? Because we have a fantastic business, and we have great partners that believe in us.

我知道每個人都渴望了解更多細節。這是亞歷克斯和他的團隊在 45 天內取得的非凡成就，對吧？那麼為什麼我們還處於 100%。好吧，老實說，我們會到達那裡。我們可能會在接下來的幾週內到達那裡，對吧？所以我從來沒有見過任何人重組他們的資產負債表和 Azul 這樣做的速度，他們已經在庭外完成了，而且他們是以友好的方式完成的。為什麼？因為我們有出色的業務，而且我們有信任我們的優秀合作夥伴。

And then well, John, if I came back, I mean, I know in the public domain, you have said at least as of the last in, I thought the deferrals, at least pre-COVID, were somewhere around BRL 3 billion. And then there's this mark-to-market piece. Is that?

然後好吧，約翰，如果我回來，我的意思是，我知道在公共領域，你至少在上次說過，我認為延期，至少在 COVID 之前，大約是 30 億雷亞爾。然後是按市值計價的部分。就是它？

Yes.

是的。

The last piece, and I feel like that this is the most important piece from a dilutive perspective. You showed up the chart. You said, we're trading at 4.2x. If we were at 5%, the stock will be a triple, I think it's what you said, maybe if I heard you. And then you threw up a bunch of charts, you talked about 7 to 8 times, and you sort of talked about the long-term sort of where this company has traded. So if I think about where ultimately the equity is struck, it's not going to be struck at 4x. I think you've been pretty clear about that. And we kind of know the high end. And so it's somewhere in between, but it's clearly a lot higher from a multiple. Is that the right way to think about it?

最後一塊，我覺得從稀釋的角度來看，這是最重要的一塊。你顯示了圖表。你說過，我們的交易價格是 4.2 倍。如果我們是 5%，股票將是三倍，我想這就是你所說的，也許我聽到了你的話。然後你扔了一堆圖表，你談到了 7 到 8 次，你談到了這家公司的長期交易情況。因此，如果我考慮股權最終被擊中的位置，它不會以 4 倍被擊中。我想你已經很清楚了。我們有點了解高端。所以它介於兩者之間，但顯然比倍數要高得多。這是正確的思考方式嗎？

You're getting close, Mike. As I said earlier, we will give the details at the appropriate time. And I think that's important, but it's something that's great for our partners. It minimizes our dilution. It's great for our equity holders, right? And so I think that's the message today, right? We looked at all stakeholders, everybody wins, and that's most important here.

你越來越接近了，邁克。正如我剛才所說，我們會在適當的時候提供細節。我認為這很重要，但這對我們的合作夥伴來說是件好事。它最大限度地減少了我們的稀釋。這對我們的股權持有人來說很棒，對吧？所以我認為這就是今天的信息，對嗎？我們研究了所有利益相關者，每個人都是贏家，這在這裡最重要。

And as we think about why, right, we talked about why we're trading at 4%. It's either because the market doesn't belie or profitability or the market is seeing something different than us on a multiple basis. So it's not the profitability, right? We do think we're going to -- our number is higher than consensus. But even if you just use consensus, which is around $5 billion, right? Just adding one turn, which is $5 billion. You add that to the equity value that we had not today, but Friday, right, to make the (inaudible).

當我們思考為什麼，對，我們談到了為什麼我們以 4% 的價格進行交易。這要么是因為市場不相信盈利能力，要么是因為市場在多個基礎上看到了與我們不同的東西。所以這不是盈利能力，對吧？我們確實認為我們會——我們的數字高於共識。但即使你只是使用共識，也就是大約 50 億美元，對嗎？只需增加一圈，即 50 億美元。你把它加到我們今天沒有的股票價值上，但是周五，正確的，使（聽不清）。

That's almost another 2x, right? So you take (inaudible) you're starting from. You had $5 billion on top of that, that's a 3x. And then that's stopping at 5x, which for a company that is one of the most profitable in the world, has cash flow generation has lower leverage, why would we be trading at 5x when our average since we went public.

這幾乎是另一個 2 倍，對吧？所以你開始（聽不清）。除此之外還有 50 億美元，這是 3 倍。然後停在 5 倍，對於一家世界上最賺錢的公司之一，產生現金流的槓桿率較低，為什麼我們要在上市以來的平均水平上交易 5 倍。

I think the market seems to be agreeing to some extent, with your stock up over 60% right now. So very good. Congratulations again.

我認為市場似乎在某種程度上同意，你的股票現在上漲了 60% 以上。所以非常好。再次祝賀。

The following question comes from (inaudible), sell-side analysts from (inaudible).

以下問題來自（聽不清），賣方分析師來自（聽不清）。

Congratulations on the agreement with lessors. Just a quick follow-up on the previous question. Last year, you talked about a reduction of around 20% of the leasing costs from A1 282 aircraft, right? So what I would like to understand is do we continue with this assumption? Or does the new agreement change that level of cost reductions? I understand. I don't need the exact number, but it will probably be less in that right?

恭喜與出租人達成協議。只是對上一個問題的快速跟進。去年，您談到 A1 282 飛機的租賃成本降低了 20% 左右，對嗎？所以我想了解的是我們是否繼續這個假設？或者新協議是否改變了成本降低的水平？我明白。我不需要確切的數字，但它可能會更少，對嗎？

Yes. So just kind of highlighting what you talked about. There are several E1s that we're paying north of $300,000 a month on, right? And this new agreement obviously reduces those to what the current market rate is. But the E2s were coming in at 20% below what we were paying. Obviously, the gap now changes as we've kind of reset to market rates kind of across the board. But we are as excited as ever about the E2s. The E2s are an extremely profitable aircraft for us going forward. And so the ownership is lower than our historical average for E1s and it produces 18% -- 18 more seats. And on a cost per seat basis, it's down to 25%.

是的。所以只是強調你所說的內容。有幾個 E1 我們每月支付超過 300,000 美元，對吧？而這項新協議顯然將這些降低到當前的市場利率。但是 E2 的價格比我們支付的價格低 20%。顯然，隨著我們全面重置市場利率，差距現在發生了變化。但我們一如既往地對 E2 感到興奮。 E2 對我們來說是一種非常有利可圖的飛機。因此，擁有率低於我們 E1 的歷史平均水平，它產生了 18%——多了 18 個席位。並且在每個席位的基礎上，它下降到 25%。

So the follow-on question now comes from Rogério Araújo from Bank of America.

那麼後續問題現在來自美國銀行的 Rogério Araãºjo。

Congratulations for today's announcements. So I have actually a follow-up on this restructuring. I know you guys are going to provide more details when it's concluded, but only a direction on the expected impact on the balance sheet. So I understand there may be a reduction of lease liabilities, but also so incremental debt instruments. So an expected balance sheet gains on that. Also, in terms of operating lease payments I understand that the deferrals has not been paid so far.

祝賀今天的公告。所以我實際上對這次重組有一個後續行動。我知道你們會在結束時提供更多細節，但只是對資產負債表的預期影響的方向。所以我知道租賃負債可能會減少，但債務工具也會增加。因此，預期的資產負債表會因此而受益。此外，在經營租賃付款方面，據我所知，到目前為止還沒有支付延期付款。

So in terms of the level of payments that we see in current results and what is expected on the market-to-market on this repricing on rental rates going to market levels. If the direction is downwards and if it's going to be relevant somehow. Lastly, if I may, there is some negotiations going on with the government in Brazil on taxes on jet fuel. Is there any update here on timing and likelihood.

因此，就我們在當前結果中看到的支付水平以及對市場對市場水平的租金重新定價的預期而言。如果方向是向下的，並且它是否會以某種方式相關。最後，如果可以的話，巴西政府正在就噴氣燃料稅進行一些談判。這裡有關於時間和可能性的更新嗎？

So let me start with the expected impact on the balance sheet. Let me talk about it directionally, Rogério. First, we see a lot of people using the balance sheet information, a lot of people using 7x rent, and I think there's even a segment of investors that are taking the balance sheet and kind of trying to calculate an average discount rate using an average discount rate to figure it out, right? So let me talk about sort of the balance sheet impact, if you are using IFRS 16 and then the 7x rent impact.

因此，讓我從對資產負債表的預期影響開始。 Rogério，讓我來談談它的方向。首先，我們看到很多人使用資產負債表信息，很多人使用 7 倍租金，我認為甚至有一部分投資者正在使用資產負債表，並試圖使用平均值來計算平均貼現率貼現率算出來吧？所以讓我談談資產負債表的影響，如果你使用 IFRS 16，然後是 7 倍的租金影響。

So that net debt, gross debt or even leverage was not really the problem, right? The reason why the market has been so nervous and there's been such uncertainty and volatility on our paper was never a leverage and was never the level of debt that we have, right? We were able to issue debt at 7 3/8% like John mentioned, when our leverage was in the double digits. And now that we are starting with a 5 heading to start with a 4, even before the restructuring, the market is a lot more nervous. So it's nervous because of the cash burn or the cash gap that we had in 2023 that we had projected for 2023 and not because of the debt, not because of the leverage. Having said that, you should see a small reduction in net debt if you're using IFRS 16.

所以淨債務、總債務甚至槓桿都不是真正的問題，對吧？市場如此緊張以及我們票據上存在如此不確定性和波動性的原因從來都不是槓桿，也從來不是我們擁有的債務水平，對吧？當我們的槓桿率達到兩位數時，我們能夠像約翰提到的那樣以 7 3/8% 的利率發行債務。現在我們從 5 頭開始，從 4 頭開始，即使在重組之前，市場也更加緊張。所以它很緊張，因為我們預計 2023 年會出現現金消耗或現金缺口，而不是因為債務，也不是因為槓桿。話雖如此，如果您使用 IFRS 16，您應該會看到淨債務略有減少。

And you should -- a lot of that depends on where our incremental cost of borrower will be by the time we finalize all this because for those of you that maybe are not too familiar with IFRS 16, I have to use my incremental cost of borrow to calculate the present value of the leases. I don't have an option. And so whatever that cost of borrowing is at that time, when we renegotiated our leases originally during the beginning of the pandemic, it was kind of in the 20%, right? And we'll see where it is once we are done here, and that will determine a lot of what the present value on our balance sheet will be depending on what that number is, right?

你應該——這在很大程度上取決於我們最終確定所有這些時藉款人的增量成本在哪裡，因為對於那些可能不太熟悉 IFRS 16 的人來說，我必須使用我的增量借貸成本計算租賃的現值。我別無選擇。因此，無論當時的借貸成本是多少，當我們最初在大流行開始時重新談判租約時，它都在 20% 左右，對吧？一旦我們在這裡完成，我們就會看到它在哪裡，這將在很大程度上決定我們資產負債表上的現值取決於這個數字是多少，對吧？

But we believe with our estimates on what makes sense, you should see a small reduction in net debt if you're using our IFRS 16. Now if you're using 7x rent, you should see a significant reduction in leverage, right? Because even if you were doing it right and you were not including the deferrals in your calculation, right? If you were taking the recurrent rent, you're taking sort of the total rent payment subtracting what was deferral related and leaving only the current rent and multiplying that by 7x because the rents are going to be reset to market values, you should see a significant reduction in the lease liability. It's going to be 40% offset by 2030 note, but the net result should be a reduction in net debt.

但我們相信，根據我們對合理性的估計，如果您使用我們的 IFRS 16，您應該會看到淨債務略有減少。現在，如果您使用 7 倍的租金，您應該會看到槓桿率顯著降低，對嗎？因為即使你做對了，你也沒有在你的計算中包括延期，對吧？如果你拿的是經常性租金，你就是拿總租金減去與延期相關的部分，只留下當前租金並將其乘以 7 倍，因為租金將被重置為市場價值，你應該看到租賃負債大幅減少。到 2030 年票據將抵消 40%，但最終結果應該是淨債務減少。

And regarding the fuel tax discussion, we've already assumed any potential changes in our EBITDA number for this year. So it's already in our model, and we're already planning for potential changes. So it does not impact the $5 billion plus EBITDA guidance that we're giving today.

關於燃油稅的討論，我們已經假設了今年我們的 EBITDA 數字的任何潛在變化。所以它已經在我們的模型中，我們已經在計劃潛在的變化。因此，它不會影響我們今天給出的 50 億美元以上的 EBITDA 指導。

But that's with what we know so far, right? I mean if -- the way we always talk about sort of government help, there's always a lot of talk. I think it makes sense for the government to stimulate travel in Brazil. This is a continentally sized country where aviation can provide a lot of social benefits can generate economic growth. It can create jobs. And potentially, there is something that's coming, but we never include that potential upside in any of our guidance in any of our planning, right? If it comes, it will be additional upside. We're only including what is known and that we can count on in our guidance.

但這就是我們目前所知道的，對吧？我的意思是，如果——我們總是談論某種政府幫助的方式，總是有很多話題。我認為政府刺激巴西旅遊是有道理的。這是一個幅員遼闊的國家，航空業可以提供很多社會效益，可以促進經濟增長。它可以創造就業機會。並且可能會有一些事情即將發生，但我們從來沒有在我們的任何計劃中的任何指導中包括這種潛在的好處，對嗎？如果它來了，那將是額外的好處。我們只包括已知的並且我們可以在我們的指導中指望的內容。

That brings our Q&A session to a close. I would like now to invite John Rodgerson for closing remarks. Please on.

我們的問答環節到此結束。現在我想請 John Rodgerson 作閉幕詞。請上。

I'd like to thank everybody for joining the call today and feel free to reach out to us if you have any questions. We're really excited about what we were able to accomplish in such a short amount of time, and there's a lot more work to be done. And so we look forward to updating you in the market over the course of the next 2 months. Thanks, everybody, for joining us.

我要感謝大家今天加入電話會議，如果您有任何問題，請隨時與我們聯繫。我們對能夠在如此短的時間內完成的工作感到非常興奮，而且還有很多工作要做。因此，我們期待在接下來的 2 個月內為您更新市場信息。謝謝大家加入我們。

Okay. Thank you. This concludes the Azul's audio conference call for today. Thank you very much for your participation, and have a good day.

好的。謝謝。 Azul 今天的音頻電話會議到此結束。非常感謝您的參與，祝您有愉快的一天。