Azul SA (AZUL) 2021 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Azul's Fourth Quarter 2021 Results Conference Call. My name is Hannon, and I'll be your operator for today. (Operator Instructions) I would like to turn the presentation over to Thais Haberli, Investor Relations Manager. Please, proceed.

大家好，歡迎參加 Azul 2021 年第四季度業績電話會議。我的名字是漢農，今天我將成為你的接線員。 （操作員說明）我想將演示文稿交給投資者關係經理 Thais Haberli。請繼續。

Thank you, Hannon, and welcome all to Azul's fourth quarter earnings call. The results that we announced this morning, the audio of this call and the slides that we reference are available on our IR website.

謝謝你，漢農，歡迎大家參加 Azul 的第四季度財報電話會議。我們今天早上宣布的結果、這次電話會議的音頻和我們參考的幻燈片都可以在我們的 IR 網站上找到。

Presenting today will be David Neeleman, Azul's Founder and Chairman; and John Rodgerson, CEO. Alex Malfitani, our CFO; and Abhi Shah, our Chief Revenue Officer, are also here for the Q&A session.

Azul 的創始人兼董事長 David Neeleman 將出席今天的演講；和首席執行官約翰羅傑森。我們的首席財務官 Alex Malfitani；我們的首席營收官 Abhi Shah 也出席了問答環節。

Before I turn the call over to David, I'd like to caution you regarding our forward-looking statements. Any statements discussed today that are not historical facts, particularly comments regarding the company's future plans, objectives and expected performance constitute forward-looking statements. These statements are based on a range of assumptions that the company believes are reasonable, but are subject to uncertainties and risks that are discussed in details in our CVM and SEC filings. Also, during the course of the call, we will discuss non-IFRS performance measures, which should not be considered in isolation.

在我將電話轉給大衛之前，我想提醒您注意我們的前瞻性陳述。今天討論的任何非歷史事實的陳述，特別是關於公司未來計劃、目標和預期業績的評論均構成前瞻性陳述。這些陳述基於公司認為合理的一系列假設，但受到我們在 CVM 和 SEC 文件中詳細討論的不確定性和風險的影響。此外，在電話會議期間，我們將討論非 IFRS 績效指標，不應孤立地考慮這些指標。

With that, I will turn the call over to David. David?

有了這個，我會把電話轉給大衛。大衛？

Thank you, Thais. Thank you for joining us for our fourth quarter 2021 earnings call. As always, I would like to start by thanking our incredible crew members. Thanks to their efforts, we delivered in Q4 another industry-leading quarter with record revenues and significant growth in our network and earnings. Our competitive advantage led by our unique network and diversified fleet resulted in a record BRL 3.7 billion in net revenue for the fourth quarter, well above 2019 levels.

謝謝你，泰國人。感謝您加入我們的 2021 年第四季度財報電話會議。與往常一樣，我想首先感謝我們出色的工作人員。由於他們的努力，我們在第四季度交付了另一個行業領先的季度，收入創紀錄，我們的網絡和收益顯著增長。我們獨特的網絡和多樣化的機隊帶來的競爭優勢使第四季度的淨收入達到創紀錄的 37 億雷亞爾，遠高於 2019 年的水平。

If you could remember back in the fourth quarter of 2019, that actually was our best revenue quarter ever until now. So the base was high and we are proud to be 1 of the few airlines worldwide to surpass pre-pandemic revenues in 2021. More importantly, we earned over BRL 1 billion in EBITDA during the quarter with the dollar at BRL 5.58 and few around USD 80 a barrel, all with international and corporate travels still recovering. This gives you a clear indication as to the earning strength of our airline and why we are so excited for 2022 and beyond. While we did experience some short-term challenges from Omicron during the first quarter 2022, that wave now is clearly behind us. In fact, we saw much lower hospitalizations versus previous infection waves. We had only 1 crew member hospitalized in January 2022.

如果您還記得 2019 年第四季度，那實際上是我們迄今為止最好的收入季度。因此，基數很高，我們很自豪能成為全球少數幾家在 2021 年收入超過大流行前收入的航空公司之一。更重要的是，我們在本季度的 EBITDA 收入超過 10 億雷亞爾，美元為 5.58 雷亞爾，而美元約為每桶 80 美元，國際和商務旅行仍在恢復中。這讓您清楚地了解我們航空公司的盈利能力，以及為什麼我們對 2022 年及以後如此興奮。雖然我們在 2022 年第一季度確實遇到了來自 Omicron 的一些短期挑戰，但現在這波浪潮顯然已經過去了。事實上，與之前的感染浪潮相比，我們看到住院人數要低得多。 2022 年 1 月，我們只有 1 名船員住院。

As you can see in Slide 4, we experienced a peak of sick calls that were 7x higher than normal. As a result, we adjusted our network for both January and February to maintain our operation. I'm happy to report that the wave which peaked during the middle of January is now as I said behind us and our operation is running normally and our NPS scores for this month is the highest it's been in the last 12 months. With Omicron behind us and with the full confidence from the fourth quarter of 2021 we're looking ahead.

正如您在幻燈片 4 中看到的那樣，我們經歷了比正常情況高出 7 倍的病假電話高峰。因此，我們調整了 1 月和 2 月的網絡以維持我們的運營。我很高興地報告，正如我所說的那樣，在 1 月中旬達到頂峰的浪潮現在已經在我們身後，我們的運營運行正常，我們本月的 NPS 分數是過去 12 個月以來的最高值。 Omicron 在我們身後，從 2021 年第四季度開始充滿信心，我們展望未來。

Slide 5 reminds you that aviation in Brazil has doubled over the past 10 years and we were responsible for 60% of this growth. As I've been saying, since we founded Azul in 2008, Brazil Travel is significantly less than countries such as Colombia or Mexico and we at Azul are doing our part to fix that. We are now flying to almost 150 destinations, a remarkable addition of more than 30 destinations compared to 2019 and there is much more to come. We serve more than a third of our flights flown by our E1s. So there's a lot of capacity to be replaced by our next generation aircraft.

幻燈片 5 提醒您，巴西的航空業在過去 10 年中翻了一番，而我們對這一增長的 60% 負責。正如我一直在說的那樣，自從我們在 2008 年創立 Azul 以來，Brazil Travel 的數量遠低於哥倫比亞或墨西哥等國家，我們 Azul 正在儘自己的一份力量來解決這個問題。我們現在飛往近 150 個目的地，與 2019 年相比增加了 30 多個目的地，而且未來還會更多。我們為超過三分之一的 E1 航班提供服務。所以我們的下一代飛機有很多容量可以取代。

Here on Slide 6, we just want to remind you of all the upside from our fleet transformation. We have already reduced fuel consumption per ASK by almost 20% since we started the fleet transformation. We are going to continue. And as we continue replacing the E1s with next generation aircraft, we're going to reduce fuel consumption for ASK and continue to significantly reduce our unit costs.

在幻燈片 6 中，我們只想提醒您我們的機隊轉型的所有好處。自從我們開始車隊轉型以來，我們已經將每 ASK 的油耗降低了近 20%。我們將繼續。隨著我們繼續用下一代飛機替換 E1，我們將減少 ASK 的油耗並繼續顯著降低我們的單位成本。

With that I will pass the word over to John who will give you more details on our outstanding fourth quarter. John?

有了這個，我會把這個詞轉給約翰，他會給你更多關於我們出色的第四季度的細節。約翰？

Thanks, David. I'd also like to express how proud I am of our crew members who once again were responsible for delivering great results during the quarter. As David mentioned, in the fourth quarter, our net revenue reached a record BRL 3.7 billion, more than double the fourth quarter of 2020 and then impressive 15% up compared to our pre-pandemic level in 2019. RASK increased 18% compared to 4Q 2019 and 43% compared to 4Q 2020. During our third quarter call, we told you that trends were positive. Our unique network delivered record revenue performance from both leisure and corporate segments. The key drivers were disciplined capacity deployment and higher fares. In addition, our logistics business at Azul Cargo also delivered record revenues.

謝謝，大衛。我還想表達我為我們的工作人員再次負責在本季度取得出色成績而感到自豪。正如大衛所說，第四季度，我們的淨收入達到創紀錄的 37 億雷亞爾，是 2020 年第四季度的兩倍多，與 2019 年大流行前的水平相比，增長了 15%。RASK 與第四季度相比增長了 18% 2019 年和 43% 與 2020 年第四季度相比。在我們第三季度的電話會議中，我們告訴您趨勢是積極的。我們獨特的網絡在休閒和企業領域創造了創紀錄的收入表現。主要驅動因素是有紀律的運力部署和更高的票價。此外，我們在 Azul Cargo 的物流業務也創造了創紀錄的收入。

On the cost side, as you can see on Slide 8, CASK in the quarter reached BRL 0.3391, up 33% compared to the fourth quarter 2019 mainly due to a 51% increase in jet fuel prices, the 35% depreciation of the Brazilian real against the dollar and 15% inflation over the last 24 months. Yes, FX and oil remain challenging and that's why we must remain focused on our productivity gains as we rebuild Azul as a more efficient airline.

在成本方面，如幻燈片 8 所示，本季度 CASK 達到 0.3391 巴西雷亞爾，與 2019 年第四季度相比上漲 33%，主要是由於航空燃油價格上漲 51%，巴西雷亞爾貶值 35%過去 24 個月兌美元匯率和 15% 的通貨膨脹率。是的，外彙和石油仍然充滿挑戰，這就是為什麼在我們將 Azul 重建為一家更高效的航空公司時，我們必須繼續專注於提高生產力。

Moving to Slide 9, we're clearly making progress in key efficiency metrics. In fourth quarter 2021, we generated 24% more domestic ASKs per FTE compared to fourth quarter 2019. Our fleet transformation strategy has also contributed to our efficiency gains. As David already mentioned to you, we reduced our fuel consumption per ASK by almost 20% since we started our fleet transformation. As we continue replacing those E1s with next generation aircraft, we're going to reduce even more our unit costs going forward. The combination of strong revenue performance with the cost efficient is implemented allowed us to achieve positive operating income and EBITDA in the quarter.

轉到幻燈片 9，我們顯然在關鍵效率指標方面取得了進展。與 2019 年第四季度相比，2021 年第四季度，我們每 FTE 產生的國內 ASK 比 2019 年第四季度增加了 24%。我們的車隊轉型戰略也有助於我們提高效率。正如 David 已經向您提到的那樣，自從我們開始車隊轉型以來，我們將每 ASK 的燃料消耗降低了近 20%。隨著我們繼續用下一代飛機替換那些 E1，我們將進一步降低我們的單位成本。強勁的收入表現與成本效益的結合使我們在本季度實現了正的營業收入和 EBITDA。

As you can see on Slide 10, our EBITDA was again the highest since the onset of the pandemic. Operating income was BRL 525 million in the quarter, representing a margin of 14.1% while EBITDA already reached over BRL 1 billion in the quarter, representing an impressive margin of 27.5%. This clearly demonstrates the earnings power and the potential of our business going forward as our annualized EBITDA exit rate is now over BRL 4 billion.

正如您在幻燈片 10 上看到的那樣，我們的 EBITDA 再次成為大流行爆發以來的最高水平。本季度營業收入為 5.25 億雷亞爾，利潤率為 14.1%，而本季度 EBITDA 已超過 10 億雷亞爾，利潤率高達 27.5%。這清楚地表明了我們業務的盈利能力和潛力，因為我們的年化 EBITDA 退出率現在超過 40 億雷亞爾。

Slide 11 shows some of our valuable drivers of profitability going forward. Our business units, Azul Cargo, TudoAzul and Azul Viagens. These are fast growing high margin businesses that will help us expand our margins.

幻燈片 11 顯示了我們未來盈利的一些有價值的驅動因素。我們的業務部門 Azul Cargo、TudoAzul 和 Azul Viagens。這些是快速增長的高利潤業務，將幫助我們擴大利潤。

Moving to Slide 12, Azul Cargo our unmatched logistics solution, which now serves more than 4,500 cities and communities across the country, 2,000 of which we can deliver in 48 hours or less. Azul Cargo reached BRL 1.1 billion in net revenue in 2021, surpassing our ambitious target to double cargo revenue compared to 2019 when we generated revenues of BRL 481 million. We recently announced the launch of the world's first Embraer Class-F Freighter, fully developed in-house, a unique logistics solution that will deliver competitive advantages for our clients.

轉到幻燈片 12，Azul Cargo 我們無與倫比的物流解決方案，現在為全國 4,500 多個城市和社區提供服務，其中 2,000 個我們可以在 48 小時或更短的時間內交付。 Azul Cargo 在 2021 年的淨收入達到 11 億雷亞爾，超過了我們雄心勃勃的目標，即貨運收入比 2019 年的 4.81 億雷亞爾翻番。我們最近宣布推出世界上第一台完全由內部開發的巴西航空工業公司 F 級貨機，這是一種獨特的物流解決方案，將為我們的客戶帶來競爭優勢。

On Slide 13, you can see how the new solution and how it more than doubles our cargo capacity on E1s. We currently have 4 E1s converted into this new configuration, just as we helped transform the Brazilian passenger market we strongly believe Azul Cargo will do the same in the logistics market.

在幻燈片 13 上，您可以看到新解決方案如何以及如何將我們的 E1 貨運能力增加一倍以上。我們目前有 4 輛 E1 轉換為這種新配置，正如我們幫助改變巴西客運市場一樣，我們堅信 Azul Cargo 將在物流市場上做同樣的事情。

On Slide 14, you can see how well TudoAzul performed in the quarter. Our wholly-owned loyalty program has 34% increase in gross billings in the fourth quarter '21 compared to fourth quarter 2019 with almost 14 million members at the end of the year. We've been surprised by the engagement of our customers throughout the pandemic and even this year.

在幻燈片 14 上，您可以看到 TudoAzul 在本季度的表現。與 2019 年第四季度相比，我們全資擁有的忠誠度計劃在 21 年第四季度的總賬單增加了 34%，到年底有近 1400 萬會員。我們對客戶在整個大流行甚至今年的參與感到驚訝。

Slide 15 shows how well Azul Viagens performed in the quarter. Our vacations business is another important driver of margin expansion going forward. In 2021, we sold almost 30% more travel packages compared to 2019, mainly by leveraging the uniqueness of our network and the flexibility of our fleet. During weekends for example, when utilization is normally low for airlines in Brazil, we dedicate 25% of our capacity to fly exclusive leisure non-stop routes, which are ideal for our Azul packaging business. Our diversified fleet allows us to capture leisure demand with the right aircraft title.

幻燈片 15 顯示了 Azul Viagens 在本季度的表現。我們的假期業務是未來利潤增長的另一個重要推動力。與 2019 年相比，2021 年我們的旅行套餐銷量增加了近 30%，主要是利用了我們網絡的獨特性和我們車隊的靈活性。例如，在巴西航空公司的利用率通常較低的周末，我們將 25% 的運力用於飛行獨家休閒直飛航線，這對於我們的 Azul 包裝業務來說是理想的選擇。我們多元化的機隊使我們能夠以正確的飛機名稱來捕捉休閒需求。

As you can see on Slide 16, in the fourth quarter our operation generated BRL 900 million in cash inflows minus operating expenses. During the quarter, we also made significant payments and leases, debt deferrals and CapEx. It's important to highlight that we ended the quarter with immediate liquidity of BRL 4.1 billion, up 41% compared to the same period in 2019 and more than BRL 600 million above our guidance, mainly due to the strong revenue performance in the fourth quarter. As a reminder, we ended 2019 with around BRL 2 billion in cash and we have no significant debt repayments over the next 2 years. This liquidity position ensures that we can focus on the many opportunities we have ahead of us in this market. Leverage also came in a turn better than our guidance on Azul day. And we're made confident that we can end 2022 with leverage that starts with the 5. Actually with our annualized exit rate of over BRL 4 billion in EBITDA in the fourth quarter, we already have a 5 handle and will continue to reduce from here.

正如您在幻燈片 16 上看到的，在第四季度，我們的業務產生了 9 億巴西雷亞爾的現金流入減去運營費用。在本季度，我們還進行了大量付款和租賃、債務延期和資本支出。重要的是要強調，我們在本季度末的即時流動性為 41 億雷亞爾，比 2019 年同期增長 41%，比我們的指導高出 6 億多雷亞爾，這主要是由於第四季度的強勁收入表現。提醒一下，我們在 2019 年結束時擁有約 20 億巴西雷亞爾的現金，並且我們在未來 2 年內沒有重大債務償還。這種流動性頭寸確保我們可以專注於我們在這個市場上擁有的許多機會。槓桿也好於我們在 Azul 日的指導。我們有信心在 2022 年末以 5 開頭的槓桿率結束。實際上，我們第四季度的 EBITDA 年化退出率超過 40 億巴西雷亞爾，我們已經有了 5 把手，並將繼續從這裡減少.

Moving to Slide 17. We know our business is a key driver of sustainable development for Brazil by bringing people, businesses and communities closer together. ESG has long been a commitment of ours and most recently, we have been included in the corporate sustainability index of the B3 Stock Exchange. At the same time, we also improved our CDP score to be highlighting our engagement to environmental initiatives.

轉到幻燈片 17。我們知道，我們的業務是巴西可持續發展的關鍵驅動力，它使人們、企業和社區更加緊密地聯繫在一起。 ESG 長期以來一直是我們的承諾，最近，我們被納入 B3 證券交易所的企業可持續發展指數。同時，我們還提高了 CDP 分數，以突出我們對環境倡議的參與。

Finishing with Slide 18. Our strong fourth quarter results give us confidence in our business model. Our annualized EBITDA exit rate of over BRL 4 billion is 10% above our best EBITDA ever. Yes, FX and oil remain challenging. But even at yesterday's levels, we would have generated more than BRL 1 billion of EBITDA in the quarter. We are sharply focused on executing our business plan for 2022. With the full recovery of corporate and international demand still to come, we see exciting opportunities in our passenger loyalty and logistics business and look forward to sharing those with you throughout the year.

以幻燈片 18 結束。我們強勁的第四季度業績使我們對我們的商業模式充滿信心。我們超過 40 億巴西雷亞爾的年化 EBITDA 退出率比我們有史以來最好的 EBITDA 高出 10%。是的，外彙和石油仍然具有挑戰性。但即使按照昨天的水平，我們本季度的 EBITDA 也將超過 10 億雷亞爾。我們非常專注於執行我們的 2022 年業務計劃。隨著企業和國際需求的全面復甦，我們在乘客忠誠度和物流業務中看到了令人興奮的機遇，並期待在全年與您分享這些機遇。

With that David, Alex and Abhi and I will answer your questions as I turn the call back over to the operator for Q&A.

有了 David、Alex 和 Abhi，我將在將電話轉回接線員進行問答時回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Savi Syth with Raymond James.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 Savi Syth 和 Raymond James。

Could you and maybe for Abhi, can you provide a little bit more granularity on you know what you saw in the kind of the domestic market in terms of leisure and business, both kind of before Omicron. And as David mentioned, like lately, since the recent recovery following Omicron?

您能否，也許對於 Abhi，您能否提供更多詳細信息，讓您了解您在 Omicron 之前在休閒和商務方面在國內市場看到的情況。正如大衛最近提到的那樣，自從 Omicron 之後最近的複蘇？

Hey, it's Abhi. Sure. So 4Q was strong in corporate and leisure. Leisure was over 100% recovery as demand came back post second wave. Our corporate recovery was around 70% of 2019 levels, which is good given that 2019 had a very high base at the end of the year and our small and medium business category was actually over 100% as well. So I would say large corporates around 70%, small medium business over 100% and then leisure over 100%. The key of course was average fares and that we were talking about you know with you guys in our 3Q call as well and corporate discounts.

嘿，是阿比。當然。所以第四季度在企業和休閒方面表現強勁。隨著需求在第二波後回升，休閒業已超過 100% 恢復。我們的企業復甦是 2019 年水平的 70% 左右，這很好，因為 2019 年年底的基數非常高，我們的中小型業務類別實際上也超過了 100%。所以我會說大型企業大約 70%，中小型企業超過 100%，然後休閒超過 100%。關鍵當然是平均票價，我們在 3Q 電話會議中也和你們討論過你們知道的以及公司折扣。

We were very conservative and our level of corporate discounts is half right now what it was pre-pandemic. I think the industry overall was disciplined in taking fare increases last year, which helps. And of course, having our network the way it is, we're also able to manage that ourselves and control a little bit our own destiny. So I would say it is a pretty conservative playbook, but it worked really well post second wave demand. And so that was responsible for the higher RASK.

我們非常保守，我們現在的企業折扣水平是大流行前的一半。我認為整個行業在去年加價方面是有紀律的，這很有幫助。當然，擁有我們的網絡，我們也能夠自己管理它並控制一點我們自己的命運。所以我會說這是一個相當保守的劇本，但在第二波需求之後它運作得非常好。這就是更高的 RASK 的原因。

What we're seeing right now is actually quite similar. Our January was messy because of the staffing issues with Omicron. But the last 2 weeks, for example, we are seeing corporate revenue recover already close to the 70% number. Our corporate fares are actually much higher than 2019, 30%, 40% higher than 2019. The industry has made adjustments in response to the fuel prices in terms of capacity, capacity has come down from March and April, which is very positive and the industry has pushed up fares as well.

我們現在看到的實際上非常相似。由於 Omicron 的人員配備問題，我們的一月份很混亂。但例如，過去兩週，我們看到企業收入已經恢復接近 70% 的數字。我們的企業票價實際上比2019年高很多，比2019年高30%、40%。行業在運力方面針對燃油價格進行了調整，運力從3月和4月開始下降，這是非常積極的。行業也推高了票價。

So I think the industry is doing what's needed to capture the demand and to prepare the market because we are right now in this pre-carnival period and we are pretty optimistic about return to work that got pushed off because of Omicron, comes back March 7 and onwards. And so I think we are doing the right things when it comes to preparing the demand and revenue environment for taking advantage of the post Omicron bounce. Brazil market is resilient. It rebounded nicely post first wave rebounded even stronger post second wave and we're expecting that for March and April post Omicron. So I think we're setting the stage to take advantage of that.

因此，我認為該行業正在採取必要措施來捕捉需求並為市場做好準備，因為我們現在正處於狂歡前的時期，我們對因 Omicron 而推遲的複工感到非常樂觀，3 月 7 日復工及以後。因此，我認為在準備需求和收入環境以利用 Omicron 後反彈時，我們正在做正確的事情。巴西市場富有彈性。它在第一波之後反彈得很好，在第二波之後反彈得更加強勁，我們預計在 Omicron 之後的 3 月和 4 月會出現這種情況。所以我認為我們正在為利用這一點做好準備。

That's really helpful. And then if I might just quickly I might have missed this, but on the F-Class Freighters, you have 1 now. Do you have any idea of how many of those type of freighters you want to add to the fleet?

這真的很有幫助。然後如果我可能很快我可能會錯過這個，但在 F 級貨機上，你現在有 1 個。您是否知道要添加到船隊中的此類貨機中有多少？

Yes. So we have 4 right now, 3 are flying, 1 is in conversion, should be ready very shortly. I mean, our goal is to keep adding those as much as we can. We are showcasing them to potential customers, we have 1 large customer already flying and we are entering new markets. In fact, we're flying to cities that we don't even fly with our passenger networks like in the North, Northwest of Brazil. So I'd be disappointed if this fleet doesn't grow. I think it has really important advantages in terms of trip cost and really good flexibility in terms of the infrastructure it can access, the secondary cities that it can access. So we certainly want to keep growing that fleet and we're on the road, showing it off.

是的。所以我們現在有 4 個，3 個在飛行，1 個在轉換中，應該很快就準備好了。我的意思是，我們的目標是盡可能多地添加這些內容。我們正在向潛在客戶展示它們，我們已經有 1 個大客戶在飛行，我們正在進入新市場。事實上，我們正在飛往巴西北部、西北部等我們的客運網絡甚至沒有飛往的城市。因此，如果這支艦隊沒有增長，我會感到失望。我認為它在出行成本方面具有非常重要的優勢，並且在可以訪問的基礎設施和可以訪問的二線城市方面具有非常好的靈活性。因此，我們當然希望繼續擴大這支艦隊，我們正在路上，炫耀它。

Our next question comes from Alejandro Zamacona with Credit Suisse.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Alejandro Zamacona。

Just a quick comment or quickly a question on yields. I mean, we saw a strong yield environment in the quarter. So what can we expect for 2022 and how we see would you say it is for you as a company to do a pass through of higher fuel prices to customers?

只是一個快速評論或快速關於收益率的問題。我的意思是，我們在本季度看到了強勁的收益率環境。那麼，我們對 2022 年的預期是什麼，我們如何看待您作為一家公司將更高的燃料價格轉嫁給客戶是否合適？

Yes. Hey Alejandro, I think as I said, the industry is working in the right direction. Everybody's obviously looking at their results. Azul, we have the competitive advantages of our network. So we are able to recover those yields faster in many ways. Our corporate demand is much more diversified than the larger cities in Brazil. We have much more exposure to different parts of the country, especially small and medium businesses. So I'm expecting that, post carnival, I'm expecting that process to continue.

是的。嘿亞歷杭德羅，我認為正如我所說，該行業正在朝著正確的方向努力。顯然每個人都在看他們的結果。 Azul，我們擁有網絡的競爭優勢。因此，我們能夠以多種方式更快地恢復這些產量。與巴西的大城市相比，我們的企業需求更加多樣化。我們對全國不同地區，尤其是中小型企業有更多的接觸。所以我期待，在狂歡節之後，我期待這個過程繼續下去。

As I said, our corporate fares right now are significantly higher than they were during the same period of 2019. So I think that the trend should be similar. Obviously we've to adjust a little bit for seasonality given first quarter and second quarter. But I think that we are laser-focused on making sure we recapture as much of this in terms of yields, in terms of all our revenue businesses, whether it's cargo, whether it's loyalty, whether it's vacations, and also on the passenger side as well. So the recent trends have been encouraging on the yield side and I expect that to continue, as we come back from carnival, and we have a good corporate month in March.

正如我所說，我們現在的公司票價明顯高於 2019 年同期。所以我認為趨勢應該是相似的。顯然，鑑於第一季度和第二季度，我們必須針對季節性進行一些調整。但我認為，我們非常專注於確保我們在收益方面重新獲得盡可能多的收益，就我們所有的收入業務而言，無論是貨運、忠誠度、假期，還是在乘客方面好。因此，近期收益率方面的趨勢令人鼓舞，我預計隨著我們從狂歡節回來，我們將在 3 月份迎來一個不錯的企業月份。

Alejandro, the increase in fuel prices as well will drive a more disciplined market going forward with capacity across the entire industry. As many of you know, one of our competitors went away in the fourth quarter, went bankrupt, which was ITA. That also has helped to kind of make sure we have a more stable market going forward. And I think the industry as a whole is focused on increasing yields and getting to profitability.

亞歷杭德羅先生，燃料價格的上漲也將推動整個行業的產能更加有序的市場向前發展。你們很多人都知道，我們的一個競爭對手在第四季度破產了，這就是 ITA。這也有助於確保我們有一個更穩定的市場。我認為整個行業都專注於提高產量和實現盈利。

Okay. And second question if I may, in terms of potential labor efficiency. Labor expenses 7% low pre-COVID with the capacity of 98% pre-COVID. So continuing the inflation for these couple of years, this is a meaningful bridge right? So do you believe going forward to assume normalization at some point or do you believe that Azul can emerge more efficient after COVID in terms of labor?

好的。第二個問題是否可以，就潛在的勞動效率而言。勞動力費用比疫情前低 7%，產能為疫情前 98%。所以這幾年繼續通貨膨脹，這是一個有意義的橋樑，對吧？那麼，您是否相信未來會在某個時候假設正常化，或者您是否相信 Azul 在 COVID 之後在勞動力方面會變得更有效率？

Alejandro, so the gains that you see are permanent, right. There's nothing temporary there, but they're certainly more that we're going to pursue. Where do the gains come from. A lot of it is the fleet transformation. So the upgauging does allow us to be more efficient. We can serve more customers with the same number of crew members. So that helps productivity. We're also investing a lot in technology. There's been a change in customer behavior, which we believe is also permanent, right. Customers have learned to buy more online to check in themselves. The process is becoming more and more streamlined, which also helps us to be more productive on the personnel front.

亞歷杭德羅，所以你看到的收穫是永久的，對吧。那裡沒有什麼暫時的，但它們肯定是我們要追求的更多。收益從何而來。其中很大一部分是艦隊轉型。所以升級確實讓我們更有效率。我們可以用同樣數量的船員服務更多的客戶。所以這有助於提高生產力。我們還在技術上進行了大量投資。客戶行為發生了變化，我們認為這也是永久性的，對吧。客戶已經學會在網上購買更多商品以自行辦理入住手續。流程變得越來越精簡，這也有助於我們在人員方面提高工作效率。

You're actually seeing some additional personnel in those numbers, because we have in-sourced a lot of maintenance activities, right. So if we didn't have those in-sources, in the salary line, you would actually see an even bigger reduction, right. But it made total sense for us, because it's a lot cheaper, more efficient for us to do maintenance in-house. We reduce foreign currency exposure, we reduce the need to fly the aircraft, abroad to do the maintenance events, so a lot of good things, but a lot of good things coming ahead of us as well. We're going to continue working on new processes, investing in technology and looking for every opportunity we have to be a more efficient airline, as we promised, we would be coming out of the pandemic.

您實際上在這些數字中看到了一些額外的人員，因為我們已經內購了很多維護活動，對吧。因此，如果我們沒有這些內部資源，在工資線中，您實際上會看到更大的減少，對吧。但這對我們來說是完全有意義的，因為對我們來說，在內部進行維護更便宜、更高效。我們減少了外匯風險，我們減少了駕駛飛機的需要，減少了在國外進行維修活動的需要，所以有很多好事，但也有很多好事擺在我們面前。我們將繼續致力於新流程，投資技術並尋找成為更高效航空公司的每一個機會，正如我們承諾的那樣，我們將擺脫大流行。

And I just want to give a shout out to a few of our team members. Our airports are 30% more efficient. That's pretty remarkable, you think about it, right? We're obvious but less flights in but more escapes because of the upgauging. But our airports are more efficient, our call centers more efficient, our headquarters are more efficient, with 25% less directors in this company than we had in 2019 and we're producing the same amount of ASKs and actually more revenue, right. And so we've gone through and have rebuilt this airline for a new environment, which has higher fuel prices and a devalued real. So no, absolutely, we cannot get back to the level that we were in 2019, in terms of salaries. The math just doesn't work. Airlines need to be more efficient today, especially in Brazil from where they were and that'll be continued to be our focus moving forward.

我只想向我們的一些團隊成員大聲疾呼。我們的機場效率提高了 30%。這很了不起，你想想，對吧？我們很明顯，但由於升級，我們的航班減少了，但逃跑的次數更多。但是我們的機場更高效，我們的呼叫中心更高效，我們的總部更高效，這家公司的董事比 2019 年減少了 25%，而且我們產生了相同數量的 ASK，實際上更多的收入，對吧。所以我們已經完成並重建了這家航空公司，以適應新環境，它有更高的燃油價格和貶值的雷亞爾。因此，不，絕對，就工資而言，我們無法回到 2019 年的水平。數學只是行不通。今天的航空公司需要提高效率，尤其是在巴西，這將繼續成為我們前進的重點。

Our next question comes from Gabriel [Rezende] with Itaú BBA.

我們的下一個問題來自 Gabriel [Rezende] 和 Itaú BBA。

We have 2 questions here. First, regarding the recent news flow on Ukraine and its impacts on oil prices. It will be very helpful if you could walk us through and remind us what are the assumptions behind your BRL 4 billion EBITDA guidance for 2022? And if Omicron impacts in the first quarter as well as these higher oil prices could prevent you from achieving that figure.

我們這裡有 2 個問題。首先，關於近期烏克蘭的消息流及其對油價的影響。如果您能指導我們並提醒我們您的 2022 年 40 億雷亞爾 EBITDA 指導背後的假設是什麼，那將非常有幫助？如果 Omicron 在第一季度的影響以及這些更高的油價可能會阻止您實現這一數字。

And also our second question regarding aircraft leasing payments. You booked BRL 3.8 billion in our lease amortization schedule for 2022. That figure was at BRL 3.5 billion in the third quarter. Was this increased solely related to new aircraft joining our fleet or does it reflect potential payment postponing from 2021 as well? And also would it be possible to negotiate some kind of deferral for these BRL 3.8 billion figure for 2022.

還有我們關於飛機租賃付款的第二個問題。您在我們 2022 年的租賃攤銷計劃中預訂了 38 億雷亞爾。這個數字在第三季度為 35 億雷亞爾。這是否僅與加入我們機隊的新飛機有關，還是也反映了從 2021 年開始的潛在付款延期？此外，是否有可能就 2022 年的 38 億雷亞爾數字進行某種形式的延期談判。

So there's a lot of questions in there. So I think Alex and I will split it. But as we look at today's events, it's very disappointing that our team worked really hard in the fourth quarter and then to wake up this morning and have a war in Eastern Europe is not the way we wanted to have an earnings call today. Obviously, fuel going to USD100 a barrel, it's not normal. We don't expect it to last. We saw great movement in the Brazilian real, which yesterday was 10% stronger than it was on December 31. So we need to put things in perspective, right. Things were getting significantly better in Brazil. So even with crude prices going up to around USD90 a barrel, the Brazilian real was actually traded below BRL 5 yesterday. And so, we're not going to manage our business based on 1 day today.

所以里面有很多問題。所以我認為亞歷克斯和我會分開。但是當我們看到今天的事件時，非常令人失望的是，我們的團隊在第四季度非常努力，然後在今天早上醒來並在東歐發生戰爭並不是我們今天想要召開財報電話會議的方式。顯然，燃油漲到每桶100美元，這是不正常的。我們預計它不會持續下去。我們看到了巴西雷亞爾的巨大波動，昨天比 12 月 31 日強了 10%。所以我們需要正確看待事情。巴西的情況明顯好轉。因此，即使原油價格上漲至每桶 90 美元左右，昨天巴西雷亞爾的交易價格實際上也低於 5 雷亞爾。因此，我們不會根據今天的 1 天來管理我們的業務。

But what we will want to show you is Abhi increased our unit revenue by 18%, in the fourth quarter, without all of his corporate demand back. He was able to do that with about 40% of our international network flying, right. This is the business model that we have that's quite unique and different than any other airline in the world, right. And so as we look forward, obviously, we don't update our model based on the last 2 hours, right. But we were very confident in our ability to execute. Obviously, Omicron had an impact in our first quarter results, we pulled some flying down, we had to cancel some flights, but want to talk about what's normalized Azul going forward. And I think what you saw in the fourth quarter is a normalized Azul. What most likely will happen is the real will probably be a bit stronger than it was in fourth quarter, and WTI will be a bit higher and we wanted to highlight that if you looked at yesterday's WTI, and yesterday's exchange rate, we still would have delivered over BRL 1 billion in the fourth quarter. And that's before we continue to go forward with our fleet transformation plans.

但我們想要向您展示的是，Abhi 在第四季度將我們的單位收入增加了 18%，而他的所有公司需求都沒有得到恢復。他能夠通過我們大約 40% 的國際網絡飛行來做到這一點，對。這是我們擁有的商業模式，與世界上任何其他航空公司都非常獨特和不同，對吧。因此，正如我們期待的那樣，顯然，我們不會根據過去 2 小時更新我們的模型，對吧。但我們對自己的執行能力非常有信心。顯然，Omicron 對我們第一季度的業績產生了影響，我們取消了一些航班，我們不得不取消一些航班，但想談談 Azul 未來的正常化。我認為你在第四季度看到的是標準化的 Azul。最有可能發生的是雷亞爾可能會比第四季度稍強，而 WTI 會略高，我們想強調的是，如果您查看昨天的 WTI 和昨天的匯率，我們仍然會有第四季度交付超過 10 億雷亞爾。那是在我們繼續推進我們的車隊轉型計劃之前。

And so I'll let Alex kind of talk to the lease payments and where we're at, but I think we've got very good partners that believe in our business and we're going to continue executing upon our plan.

所以我會讓亞歷克斯談談租賃付款和我們所處的位置，但我認為我們有非常好的合作夥伴相信我們的業務，我們將繼續執行我們的計劃。

Hey, Gabriel. So just complimenting on the modeling, you guys know sort of what assumptions we normally use, for our forecasting, we use the Bloomberg curve for OIO, we use the central bank focus survey for FX, but you always have to talk about 3 things together, fuel, FX, and fares, right? They all go together you can't have an assumption for one without having an assumption for the other. And as we've demonstrated over the last 14 years and counting, we have the ability to pass through cost increases to fares, it's not immediate, but it is certainly something that we've been able to count over all these years. And like we said, we were more profitable, with the real at BRL 4 than we were with the real at BRL 3, and we had record revenues with the real at BRL 5.60, because they are correlated. So you always have to think about those assumptions together.

嘿，加布里埃爾。所以只是對模型的讚美，你們知道我們通常使用什麼樣的假設，對於我們的預測，我們使用彭博曲線來進行 OIO，我們使用中央銀行焦點調查來進行外匯，但是你們總是必須一起談論三件事、燃料、外彙和票價，對吧？它們都在一起，如果沒有對另一個的假設，你就不能對一個假設進行假設。正如我們在過去 14 年中所證明的那樣，我們有能力將成本增加轉嫁到票價上，這不是立竿見影的，但肯定是這些年來我們一直能夠計算的東西。就像我們說的那樣，我們的利潤更高，4 雷亞爾的雷亞爾比 3 雷亞爾的雷亞爾更有利可圖，而且我們與雷亞爾 5.60 雷亞爾的收入創歷史新高，因為它們是相關的。所以你總是必須一起考慮這些假設。

We talked about this on the call, right. Even with yesterday's levels for fuel and FX, we would have had over BRL 1 billion of EBITDA in the fourth quarter. So these numbers are all related. But it's clear that we can generate profitability and high EBITDA even in a challenging fuel FX environment.

我們在電話會議上談到了這個，對。即使按照昨天的燃料和外匯水平，我們在第四季度的 EBITDA 也將超過 10 億雷亞爾。所以這些數字都是相關的。但很明顯，即使在充滿挑戰的燃料外匯環境中，我們也可以產生盈利能力和高 EBITDA。

Regarding aircraft lease payments, yes, the majority of those lease payments are translated from dollar to real at an exchange rate of BRL 5.58, right, much higher than it is even today with the volatility in the Ukraine. So the actual number that we're going to pay real, it depends 100% on what the exchange rate is going to be. But one thing that I think we also demonstrated over the last 2 years of the pandemic is that, like John said, we have great marked partners, right. The partnership between us and our list stores is a long term relationship, where it has to be sustainable for both of us, right?

關於飛機租賃付款，是的，這些租賃付款中的大部分以 5.58 巴西雷亞爾的匯率從美元換算成雷亞爾，這比現在烏克蘭動蕩的情況要高得多。所以我們要實際支付的實際數字，100% 取決於匯率。但我認為我們在過去 2 年的大流行病中也證明了一件事，就像約翰說的那樣，我們有很好的合作夥伴，對吧。我們和我們的列表商店之間的合作夥伴關係是一種長期的關係，它對我們雙方來說都必須是可持續的，對吧？

We have the ability to pay, we have to honor our commitments, as we have done over the life of the pandemic and even before, but if we need their support, we know that we can count on them. So it's something that has to be sustainable, has to be agreeable to both. But one thing that we don't need to worry about is whether we will have enough cash because we've demonstrated that we have the ability to count in support of our suppliers, we have the ability to count on the capital markets, regardless of what conditions are. So obviously, we're not going to discuss sort of what our strategy is going to be exactly regarding future deferrals. But it's something that you can look at the last 2 years to see that we're going to do what needs to be done and works for us and works for our suppliers and partners.

我們有能力支付，我們必須履行我們的承諾，就像我們在大流行期間甚至之前所做的那樣，但如果我們需要他們的支持，我們知道我們可以依靠他們。所以它必須是可持續的，必須是雙方都同意的。但是我們不需要擔心的一件事是我們是否會有足夠的現金，因為我們已經證明我們有能力依靠我們的供應商，我們有能力依靠資本市場，無論什麼條件。所以很明顯，我們不會討論關於未來延期的確切策略。但你可以看看過去兩年的情況，看看我們將做需要做的事情，為我們工作，為我們的供應商和合作夥伴工作。

And I think we've built enormous credibility over the last 2 years with our partners, right? We've been very upfront, we've been very transparent and we'll continue to do that. And when we had to access capital in the market, we did that, we communicated that to them. And so credibility matters and we continue to manage this business for all of our stakeholders.

而且我認為我們在過去的兩年中與我們的合作夥伴建立了巨大的信譽，對吧？我們一直非常坦率，我們一直非常透明，我們將繼續這樣做。當我們必須在市場上獲得資金時，我們就這樣做了，我們向他們傳達了這一點。因此，信譽很重要，我們將繼續為所有利益相關者管理這項業務。

Our next question comes from Michael Linenberg with Deutsche Bank.

我們的下一個問題來自德意志銀行的 Michael Linenberg。

Can you hear me, right?

你能聽到我的聲音，對嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Great. Just following up, I guess John on Gabriel's question just a few minutes ago. You did highlight sort of what your EBITDA was kind of annualized with what you did in the fourth quarter, your exit rate. I noticed in the piece, there was no sort of forecast for what you thought you could do for 2022. I know the EBITDA forecast has sort of been better than '20 -- what was done in 2019, I think was BRL 3.6 billion and we've seen sort of the squiggly line BRL 4 billion. Is it because of just the events over the last 12 hours or so and the surge in energy prices and we've had a lot of volatility with FX that you didn't feel comfortable putting a forecast out there or when you think about sort of the puts and takes and the various levers that you can utilize that for 2022, that BRL 4 billion is still very much within reach, if you can comment on that.

偉大的。只是跟進，我猜約翰幾分鐘前就問了加布里埃爾的問題。您確實強調了您的 EBITDA 與您在第四季度所做的事情（退出率）的年度化程度。我在這篇文章中註意到，沒有任何關於你認為你可以在 2022 年做什麼的預測。我知道 EBITDA 預測比 20 年要好——我認為 2019 年的預測是 36 億雷亞爾，並且我們已經看到了 40 億巴西雷亞爾的曲線。是因為過去 12 小時左右發生的事件以及能源價格的飆升以及我們在外匯方面出現了很大的波動，您不願意在那裡進行預測，或者當您考慮某種情況時如果您可以對此發表評論，那麼您可以在 2022 年使用的看跌期權和各種槓桿，40 億雷亞爾仍然觸手可及。

Yes. Mike, I think the events over the last 12 hours, kind of, I think in my script I mentioned BRL 4 billion, probably 4 or 5 times, right? So that's what we're focused on. Obviously, some of the impact in the first quarter may make that slightly less, if Abhi continues to outperform it as he's done, maybe we're above it, but that's our focus. We don't want to stick it out there at this time, just because there's way too much volatility, but that's what we're marching towards. And so we wanted to show in the fourth quarter, without corporate demand fully back without our international network fully deployed, we produce BRL 1 billion of EBITDA.

是的。邁克，我認為過去 12 小時的事件，有點，我認為在我的劇本中我提到了 40 億巴西雷亞爾，可能有 4 或 5 次，對吧？所以這就是我們所關注的。顯然，如果 Abhi 繼續像他所做的那樣表現出色，那麼第一季度的一些影響可能會稍微減少，也許我們會超過它，但這是我們的重點。我們不想在這個時候堅持下去，只是因為波動太大，但這就是我們正在努力的方向。因此，我們想在第四季度展示，在沒有完全部署我們的國際網絡的情況下，如果企業需求沒有完全恢復，我們會產生 10 億巴西雷亞爾的 EBITDA。

On the last week of December, we received 5 aircraft, Mike, and those 5 aircraft are next generation aircraft, there's 2 A321s in there that are going to help us produce more EBITDA in 2022. And so I just think putting it out there right now with everything that's going on, we're happy to talk to it. We're right around that number, right. Is it BRL 100 million less or BRL 100 million more, that's about where we're at right now and we're focused as a team to get in there.

在 12 月的最後一周，我們收到了 5 架飛機，邁克，那 5 架飛機是下一代飛機，其中有 2 架 A321 將幫助我們在 2022 年產生更多的 EBITDA。所以我只是想把它放在那裡現在有了正在發生的一切，我們很高興與它交談。我們就在這個數字附近，對。是少 1 億雷亞爾還是多 1 億雷亞爾，這就是我們現在所處的位置，我們作為一個團隊專注於進入那裡。

Okay, make sense. And then just my second question to Alex. Look, you had great EBITDA in the quarter. Obviously, interest expenses is high. What was it over BRL 900 million, but I'm sure FX was a big driver of that. If we think about just kind of size it, with the real versus the dollar, you know, recently trading down to BRL 5, it looked like it was actually going to break through BRL 5 and today it's just above BRL 5. If we think about maybe BRL 5 versus BRL 5.6, what would that number be, would that be something on the order of BRL 600 million? I mean, I'm just looking for back of the envelope to get a sense of how we think about interest expense for the rest of the year. Thanks.

好吧，有道理。然後是我對亞歷克斯的第二個問題。看，你在本季度的 EBITDA 很好。顯然，利息費用很高。超過 9 億巴西雷亞爾是什麼，但我確信外匯是其中的重要推動力。如果我們考慮一下它的大小，雷亞爾兌美元最近跌至 5 雷亞爾，看起來它實際上要突破 5 雷亞爾，而今天它剛剛超過 5 雷亞爾。如果我們認為大概是 5 雷亞爾對 5.6 雷亞爾，這個數字是多少，是 6 億雷亞爾嗎？我的意思是，我只是在尋找信封背面，以了解我們如何看待今年剩餘時間的利息支出。謝謝。

Yes. No, that's a great question, Mike and a good thing to highlight because, as we pointed out between the end of Q4, and where fuel and FX were trading yesterday, EBITDA is kind of neutral even for the year, but cash is much, much better, right? And that's one thing that IFRS 16 confuses things a little bit, because it's harder for you to see if you're just looking at the P&L, but yes, real at BRL 5 or BRL 5.10 is a lot better and helps us a lot more on cash than the oil at USD90 a barrel or more. So yes, you're talking about something in magnitude of what you said in terms of help towards cash, using a lower real for sure or dollar from a real.

是的。不，這是一個很好的問題，邁克，還有一件值得強調的事情，因為正如我們在第四季度末以及昨天燃料和外匯交易的地方所指出的那樣，EBITDA 即使在今年也是中性的，但現金很多，好多了，對吧？這是 IFRS 16 有點混淆的一件事，因為您更難看出您是否只查看損益表，但是是的，5 巴西雷亞爾或 5.10 巴西雷亞爾的真實情況要好得多，並且可以幫助我們更多現金比石油每桶 90 美元或更多。所以，是的，你說的是你所說的對現金的幫助，肯定是使用較低的雷亞爾或從雷亞爾中提取的美元。

But again, Mike, you you're talking about interest expense, but you also get the help significantly on the operating leases as well, right.

但同樣，邁克，你在談論利息費用，但你也在經營租賃方面得到了很大的幫助，對吧。

Yes. You get help on lease, you get help on CapEx, you get help on deferred leases, you get help on -- we are exposed to the dollars. We're essentially an imported service, right. And so when the real gets stronger, our cost gets a lot lower and our cash improves a lot.

是的。你得到租賃幫助，你得到資本支出幫助，你得到延期租賃幫助，你得到幫助——我們接觸到美元。我們本質上是一個進口服務，對吧。所以當雷亞爾變得更強時，我們的成本會降低很多，我們的現金也會增加很多。

Absolutely. And I'll just add. You guys did a fantastic job on the revenue performance. I know that didn't show up in my questions, but that type of vast growth on sort of your capacity basis, probably leading among all carriers that we've seen report thus far. So well done.

絕對地。我會補充一下。你們在收入表現方面做得非常出色。我知道這並沒有出現在我的問題中，但是在您的容量基礎上，這種巨大的增長可能在我們迄今為止看到的所有運營商中處於領先地位。做得很好。

We're paying for Abhi's Subway sandwich today.

我們今天要為 Abhi 的 Subway 三明治買單。

Our next question comes from Daniel McKenzie with Seaport Global.

我們的下一個問題來自 Seaport Global 的 Daniel McKenzie。

It's a heck of a data report, honestly. But it's great to have you visible and I echo Mike's sentiment on the revenue performance. Great job. I guess, with respect to the outlook this year, could you just clarify what the growth rate is this year that you're contemplating at least as of today and then the CASK ex fuel that's embedded in that outlook? And just given the volatility of the depreciation line item, can you clarify what the full year depreciation ultimately is going to look like?

老實說，這是一份糟糕的數據報告。但很高興你能看到，我贊同邁克對收入表現的看法。做得好。我想，關於今年的前景，您能否澄清一下至少截至今天您正在考慮的今年的增長率，然後是嵌入在該前景中的 CASK ex 燃料？鑑於折舊項目的波動性，您能否闡明全年折舊最終會是什麼樣子？

Okay. Hey Dan, in terms of capacity, obviously, we're adjusting as the events unfold. Like I said, we have brought down March and April, in response to the -- every airline has the best on the route P&L and the worst on the route P&L, and as fuel goes up. And one good thing a little bit about the higher fuel is you can manage it, right. You can actually adjust capacity. So I would say that our focus is going to be domestic growth. We don't have a full year ASK guidance out there. But what I can say is that domestic growth relative to 2019 are similar to what you saw 4Q annualized. So if you take the 4Q domestic ASKs and just annualize that, it will come down a little bit because of Omicron in January and February, and because of some cuts that we made in March and April due to fuel. So around what you are seeing in 4Q and what you see in the traffic reports, in January and February in terms of domestic ASK, so kind of like in the 20s, if you will.

好的。嘿，丹，就容量而言，顯然，我們正在隨著事件的展開進行調整。就像我說的那樣，我們已經降低了 3 月和 4 月，以應對 - 每家航空公司在損益表上都有最好的，在損益表上最差，而且隨著燃料的上漲。關於更高燃料的一點好處是您可以管理它，對。您實際上可以調整容量。所以我想說，我們的重點將是國內增長。我們沒有全年的 ASK 指導。但我可以說的是，相對於 2019 年的國內增長與你看到的第四季度的年化增長率相似。因此，如果您將第 4 季度的國內 ASK 僅按年計算，則由於 1 月和 2 月的 Omicron 以及我們在 3 月和 4 月因燃料而進行的一些削減，它會有所下降。因此，圍繞您在 4 季度看到的情況和在流量報告中看到的情況，1 月和 2 月國內 ASK 的情況，如果您願意的話，有點像 20 年代。

Internationally, again, we can adjust that. Our international recovery so far has been very conservative, about 40% recovery, 45% recovery. I don't expect that to change too much. And so around 50%, it depends on how fuel goes. If it comes back down towards the end of the year, we can bring that up, but we're not expecting major changes to international throughout the year. So I would say domestic what you're seeing right now in the 20s versus 2019 and international about 45% recovery versus 2019.

在國際上，我們可以再次調整這一點。到目前為止，我們的國際復甦非常保守，大約是40％的複蘇，45％的複蘇。我不希望這會發生太大變化。所以大約 50%，這取決於燃料的使用方式。如果它在年底回落，我們可以提出來，但我們預計全年國際市場不會發生重大變化。所以我想說的是你現在在 20 年代與 2019 年相比在國內看到的情況，而在國際上，與 2019 年相比復甦了大約 45%。

Got it. And then CASK ex fuel?

知道了。然後是CASK前燃料？

So CASK ex fuel should remain kind of where it is while. We don't like to look at CASK ex fuel. we like to talk about CASK, assuming a certain level of fuel and FX. So CASK controlled for fuel FX now compared to 2019 is actually obviously a lot lower than what we're seeing. And it's going to depend a lot on what assumptions you have for fuel and FX. But what I can tell you is the additional growth that we're going to have as you annualize our capacity, as we bring in more international capacity that reduces CASK as well, right? Longer stage lengths and international CASK is lower than domestic CASK. The productivity gains that we're going to continue to deploy throughout the organization, all that is going to help.

因此，CASK ex 燃料應該保持原樣。我們不喜歡查看 CASK ex 燃料。我們喜歡談論 CASK，假設燃料和 FX 達到一定水平。因此，與 2019 年相比，現在控制燃料 FX 的 CASK 實際上顯然比我們看到的要低很多。這在很大程度上取決於您對燃料和外彙的假設。但是我可以告訴你的是，隨著我們的產能年化，我們將獲得額外的增長，因為我們引入了更多的國際產能，這也減少了 CASK，對嗎？更長的階段長度和國際 CASK 低於國內 CASK。我們將繼續在整個組織中部署提高生產力，這一切都會有所幫助。

And one thing that we're discussing here to try to provide more granularity to everyone, there's more than 2 centavos of CASK that comes from cargo, right? There's more than 3.5 centavos of RASK that comes from cargo. So cargo is obviously very profitable. But when you look at CASK alone, the tremendous growth that we've had in cargo and all the success that we had with that business unit, it does add almost 7% of CASK to our number without producing -- it adds cost, but it doesn't add ASKs, right. So that's something also worth highlighting that when you compare our current CASK to our 2019 CASK, obviously, there's dollar, there's fuel, there's 2 years of inflation, but there's also a very good outcome, very good result, which is the growth that we've had in our cargo business.

我們在這裡討論的一件事是試圖為每個人提供更多的粒度，有超過 2 美分的 CASK 來自貨物，對吧？超過 3.5 美分的 RASK 來自貨物。所以貨運顯然是非常有利可圖的。但是，當您僅查看 CASK 時，我們在貨運方面的巨大增長以及我們在該業務部門取得的所有成功，它確實在不生產的情況下使我們的數量增加了近 7%——它增加了成本，但它不添加 ASK，對。所以這也是值得強調的一點，當你將我們目前的 CASK 與 2019 年的 CASK 進行比較時，顯然，有美元，有燃料，有 2 年的通貨膨脹，但也有一個非常好的結果，非常好的結果，這就是我們的增長在我們的貨運業務中。

Very helpful. That's terrific. And then second question here. Abhi, if we could go back to 2019 and you know, just peel apart domestic and international pricing, so not precise. Just if you could help us ballpark it is or just remind us, if their international flying was lower or higher yielding versus domestic. And then looking ahead, as we see international begin to come back, how should we think about the yields netting out, again, is that international flying is restored?

很有幫助。真了不起。然後是第二個問題。 Abhi，如果我們可以回到 2019 年，你知道，把國內和國際定價分開，所以不准確。如果您能幫助我們大致了解一下，或者只是提醒我們，他們的國際航班與國內航班相比收益是否更低或更高。然後展望未來，當我們看到國際航班開始回歸時，我們應該如何看待淨收益，再次，國際航班是否恢復了？

Yes. So in general, because of stage length, right, you're talking about a 4000 miles stage length, at least for us internationally, because we don't have right now any short haul International. We have 1 route, basically. We aren't flying to Buenos Aires anytime soon. So because of the stage lengths, the yields are lower, but international pricing has actually been our international fares, I would say, right now are double what they were in 2019. And so it's actually been resilient, at least in the market that we fly, which is Florida and Portugal, which are big, big local markets for Brazilians. And I do expect sometime in the next month or 2, a reduction in the pre-departure testing requirements. France has done that, Italy has done that, the UK has done that. And that should help further as well. So I think they're going to be pretty resilient, actually. And we only will add the capacity that's warranted, right.

是的。所以總的來說，由於賽段長度，對，你說的是 4000 英里的賽段長度，至少對我們來說是國際賽段，因為我們現在沒有任何短途國際賽段。基本上，我們有 1 條路線。我們不會很快飛往布宜諾斯艾利斯。因此，由於階段長度，收益率較低，但國際定價實際上是我們的國際票價，我想說，現在是 2019 年的兩倍。所以它實際上是有彈性的，至少在我們的市場上fly，即佛羅里達和葡萄牙，對於巴西人來說，它們是非常大的本地市場。我確實預計在下個月或 2 個月的某個時候，出發前測試要求會有所降低。法國做到了，意大利做到了，英國做到了。這也應該會有所幫助。所以我認為他們實際上會很有彈性。我們只會增加必要的容量，對吧。

So if we can get the yields that are similar, or at least in terms of the contribution, to domestic, then we'll add capacity, but we don't have to. We are using our A330, for example, in March, 5 times a week to Brussels, for cargo and we actually sacrifice the Orlando route a little bit to ensure we can continue the Brussels route, because that was a long-term contract. They're paying in dollars and we pass the fuel through completely to our customers. So we do have options when it comes to our long haul network and we will only bring back the capacity to make sure that their margin contributions are similar to what we're seeing domestically.

因此，如果我們能夠獲得與國內相似的產量，或者至少在貢獻方面，那麼我們將增加產能，但我們不必這樣做。例如，我們在 3 月份使用 A330，每週 5 次到布魯塞爾運送貨物，我們實際上犧牲了奧蘭多航線，以確保我們能夠繼續布魯塞爾航線，因為那是一份長期合同。他們以美元支付，我們將燃料完全傳遞給我們的客戶。因此，對於我們的長途網絡，我們確實有選擇，我們只會恢復能力，以確保他們的利潤率貢獻與我們在國內看到的相似。

And domestically, as I said, corporate fares right now in last couple of weeks are 30%-40% above 2019 levels, the same week in 2019. So I think, we are being very aggressive on the fare side in a good way are conservative. And obviously our network helps us to do that. And I think the industry overall is trying as well. I think the last couple of weeks the industry is trying to set the stage for a good revenue recovery in March and beyond. So I think overall, the right things are being done.

正如我所說，在國內，最近幾週的公司票價比 2019 年的水平高出 30%-40%，即 2019 年的同一周。所以我認為，我們在票價方面非常積極，這是一種很好的方式保守的。顯然，我們的網絡幫助我們做到了這一點。我認為整個行業也在嘗試。我認為過去幾週該行業正試圖為 3 月及以後的收入復甦做好準備。所以我認為總的來說，正在做正確的事情。

Our next question comes from [Philippe Newson] with Citibank.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 [Philippe Newson]。

I have 2 questions on my side. I'll start with the first one. I wanted to ask regarding price, the tariffs that you're seeing in low density routes and the mainline routes. Is this growth in tariffs is sustainable, is going to keep occurring during 2022 and beyond and how is the difference between low density routes and mainline routes in terms of tariffs? And is there any competitor trying to be aggressive in pricing at this time in the markets?

我有兩個問題。我將從第一個開始。我想問一下價格，你在低密度航線和乾線航線上看到的關稅。運價的這種增長是否可持續，是否會在 2022 年及以後繼續發生？低密度航線和乾線航線在運價方面有何區別？目前市場上是否有任何競爭對手試圖在定價方面採取激進措施？

Yes, that certainly is our intention. And I think us and the industry have no choice. As John talked about efficiencies, airlines have to be more efficient. I think we have to be more aggressive in terms of fares and lower discounts. And yes, I think it will continue. You have some seasonality, of course,. But I think the customer adjusts, the customer adjusted last year. And I think they will adapt as well to the new environment. I think people want to travel by air, they see the value in it, the convenience of it. So I think the customer will adapt. We have a different network than our competitors. And so that allows us to behave differently. We do take fair premiums in our markets. That strategy has not changed and will continue. And I think that actually brings discipline overall to the market as well.

是的，這當然是我們的意圖。我認為我們和整個行業都別無選擇。正如約翰談到效率，航空公司必須提高效率。我認為我們必須在票價和更低的折扣方面更加積極。是的，我認為它會繼續下去。當然，你有一些季節性。但我認為客戶調整了，客戶去年調整了。我認為他們也會適應新環境。我認為人們想乘飛機旅行，他們看到了它的價值，它的便利。所以我認為客戶會適應。我們擁有與競爭對手不同的網絡。因此，這使我們能夠以不同的方式行事。我們確實在我們的市場上收取公平的溢價。這一戰略沒有改變，並將繼續下去。我認為這實際上也給市場帶來了整體紀律。

And in terms of competitive nature, I think that everybody realizes what needs to be done and is going to be disciplined. We look at the capacity that was reduced in March. In April, I think that the airlines are focusing on their hubs. They're focusing where they are strong, avoiding unnecessary interactions with other airlines. And I think that's the best way to get the best results honestly. I'll take Guarulhos as an example. We had 55 departures a day in 2019. Today, we have 20, maybe 18. And we have absolutely no desire to increase that number, because we're focused in our network that brings the best results. And I think our competitors are focusing in what works for them as well.

就競爭性質而言，我認為每個人都意識到需要做什麼，並且會受到紀律處分。我們看看三月份減少的容量。在四月份，我認為航空公司正在專注於他們的樞紐。他們專注於自己的優勢，避免與其他航空公司不必要的互動。我認為這是誠實地獲得最佳結果的最佳方式。我將以瓜魯柳斯為例。 2019 年，我們每天有 55 次出發。今天，我們有 20 次，也許 18 次。我們絕對不想增加這個數字，因為我們專注於能夠帶來最佳結果的網絡。我認為我們的競爭對手也在關注對他們有用的東西。

Okay, great. And I have a second question. It's regarding to Azul loyalty program. What are the earnings contributed from this loyalty program to the revenues in the coming years? And what is the incremental revenue opportunity for that business in terms of revenues?

好，太棒了。我還有第二個問題。這與 Azul 忠誠度計劃有關。這個忠誠度計劃對未來幾年的收入貢獻了多少？就收入而言，該業務的增量收入機會是什麼？

Hey Philippe, so the story with Azul is very similar with all of our sort of high growth, high margin businesses, but they leverage the network presence that we have and they take advantage of the structure that we already have in place to fly our passenger network. So TudoAzul, Azul Cargo, Azul Viagens, they are all higher margin business than the airline itself. We don't break up, the profitability of each individual one. But as the revenue for any one of those businesses grows, you will see margin expansion, right. Cargo, certainly, like I said, just from what I said, in terms of how much cargo helps RASK and how much it increases CASK, you can kind of see what kind of profitability you get from these additional businesses and they will certainly continue growing outpacing the growth of the airline because they are all kind of below what their fair market share would be.

嘿 Philippe，Azul 的故事與我們所有的高增長、高利潤業務非常相似，但它們利用了我們擁有的網絡存在，並利用了我們已有的結構來運送我們的乘客網絡。因此，TudoAzul、Azul Cargo、Azul Viagens，它們都是比航空公司本身利潤率更高的業務。我們不分手，每個人的盈利能力。但隨著這些業務中任何一項收入的增長，你會看到利潤增長，對吧。貨運，當然，就像我說的，就我所說的，就貨運對 RASK 的幫助以及它增加 CASK 的程度而言，你可以看到你從這些額外的業務中獲得了什麼樣的盈利能力，它們肯定會繼續增長超過航空公司的增長速度，因為它們都低於其公平的市場份額。

TudoAzul is very strong, obviously, where we fly. But loyalty in Brazil is primarily still a -- Sao Paulo, Rio and Brasilia are phenomenon, but there's no reason why people in Belo Horizonte or Campinas or Grande don't want to fly for free by using their credit card, right. So as they become more and more familiar with those mechanics, we see the growth in TudoAzul. TudoAzul is getting closer and closer to its fair share and helps us expand margins as it does so. And we also have a lot of new products that we want to launch in TudoAzul, a lot of products that we launched fairly recently like our new co-branded credit card, which is doing tremendously and there are a lot of more products that we want to launch in TudoAzul to take advantage of the relationship that we have with our customers and the network presence that we have in Brazil.

TudoAzul 非常強大，顯然，我們飛的地方。但巴西的忠誠度主要仍然是——聖保羅、里約和巴西利亞是一種現象，但貝洛奧里藏特、坎皮納斯或格蘭德的人們沒有理由不想使用他們的信用卡免費飛行，對吧。因此，隨著他們越來越熟悉這些機制，我們看到了 TudoAzul 的發展。 TudoAzul 越來越接近其公平份額，並幫助我們擴大利潤。我們還想在 TudoAzul 推出很多新產品，我們最近推出的很多產品，比如我們的新聯名信用卡，效果非常好，還有很多我們想要的產品在 TudoAzul 推出，以利用我們與客戶的關係以及我們在巴西的網絡存在。

Our next question comes from Pablo Monsivais with Barclays.

我們的下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的 Pablo Monsivais。

I just have a quick one. Can you please share with me your CapEx estimate for 2022 and 2023?

我只有一個快速的。您能否與我分享您對 2022 年和 2023 年的資本支出估算？

So in terms of CapEx or the recurrent level of CapEx for the airline is similar to what we had in 2019, which is in the neighborhood of BRL 1.5 billion. A lot of that depends on demand and a lot of that depends on the dollar. So we have some flexibility to go up or down to spend to accelerate maintenance events or to postpone maintenance events, depending on the demand and depending on the dollar. But you can use sort of that as a recurrent number, you know, if it doesn't include sort of the deferrals or any kind of one-time projects.

因此，就資本支出或航空公司的經常性資本支出水平而言，與我們在 2019 年的情況相似，約為 15 億雷亞爾。其中很多取決於需求，其中很多取決於美元。因此，我們有一定的靈活性來增加或減少支出以加速維護事件或推遲維護事件，具體取決於需求和美元。但是您可以將其用作經常性數字，您知道，如果它不包括某種延期或任何類型的一次性項目。

And there's also a good portion of that that's financeable as well, right, if you are talking about engine overhauls and stuff. And so, I think offline analysis and kind of walk you through, the possibility to finance some of that CapEx going forward.

如果您在談論發動機大修之類的東西，其中也有很大一部分是可以融資的。因此，我認為離線分析可以引導您完成未來為部分資本支出提供資金的可能性。

Yes, those are gross numbers, not necessarily net numbers. So, yes, we can certainly provide more detail if that's not clear.

是的，這些是總數字，不一定是淨數字。所以，是的，如果不清楚，我們當然可以提供更多細節。

Okay. And just a follow-up, trying to understand Abhi's answer about yields. It's incredible how resilient your yields are. And it will be key if we see a higher oil price for this year. It is fair to assume that you're at a higher yield environment for you depends on your ability to expand into different markets because Abhi said that you're also adding new cities? And when you're adding new cities, you're probably testing the water and having a high yield. Is that fair to assume that the higher yield environment depends on you adding to new destinations or it's under the same routes that you already operate, in which you have a high market share?

好的。只是一個後續，試圖理解 Abhi 關於收益率的回答。令人難以置信的是，您的產量有多麼有彈性。如果我們看到今年的油價上漲，這將是關鍵。可以公平地假設您處於更高收益的環境取決於您擴展到不同市場的能力，因為 Abhi 說您也在增加新城市？當您添加新城市時，您可能正在試水並獲得高產。假設更高的收益環境取決於您增加新的目的地，或者它在您已經運營的相同路線下，您擁有很高的市場份額，這是否公平？

So we are adding new cities, you are correct. Many of those cities are small markets that we're adding with either our ATRs or our caravan operation. Those do help on the yield side. But primarily, we're adding those cities to provide incremental demand to our network. And some of that demand is actually very small right now. But it is how we want to grow the market in the future by bringing new demand to our market. And yes, every time you add demand to your network that does give you a little bit of more pricing power that does allow you to grow your yields as well. So I would say that is a small part of it.

所以我們正在添加新的城市，你是對的。其中許多城市是我們通過 ATR 或大篷車運營添加的小市場。這些確實在收益方面有所幫助。但主要是，我們添加這些城市是為了為我們的網絡提供增量需求。其中一些需求實際上現在非常小。但這是我們希望通過為我們的市場帶來新需求來發展未來市場的方式。是的，每次您向網絡增加需求時，都會為您提供更多的定價權，這也確實可以讓您提高產量。所以我會說這只是其中的一小部分。

But the other part of it is just the connectivity we have in our network and the sort of access to different types of demand we have whether it's small, medium businesses, whether it's different sectors. I'll give you an example. In Q4 2021, financial services segment of our demand recovered 50%. But construction recovered over 100%, oil and gas was 85%. And so because our network is so diversified and has access to such different parts of the country, we have ability to access different types of demand. And that's what gives us the resiliency on our yields.

但另一部分只是我們網絡中的連接性，以及我們對不同類型需求的訪問，無論是中小型企業，還是不同的部門。我給你舉個例子。 2021 年第四季度，我們需求中的金融服務部分恢復了 50%。但建設恢復超過100%，石油和天然氣為85%。因此，由於我們的網絡如此多樣化並且可以訪問該國如此不同的地區，我們有能力訪問不同類型的需求。這就是讓我們在收益方面具有彈性的原因。

Our next question comes from Nicolas Fabiancic with Jefferies.

我們的下一個問題來自 Nicolas Fabiancic 和 Jefferies。

Thank you to the Azul team for the clear disclosure and congrats on the results. Just a comment on the bonds, which are still trading at stress levels for whatever reason. I think it'd be useful to really emphasis the point around your liquidity. If you could give us some more color, breakdown of your liquidity position, sources of additional liquidity and how we should be thinking about some of the near medium term maturities like the 2024 bonds or the converts?

感謝 Azul 團隊的明確披露並祝賀結果。只是對債券的評論，無論出於何種原因，它們仍處於壓力水平。我認為真正強調您的流動性這一點會很有用。如果你能給我們更多的顏色，你的流動性頭寸明細，額外流動性的來源，以及我們應該如何考慮一些近期到期的債券，比如 2024 年債券或轉換債券？

And then just a follow-up question. You mentioned this BRL 4 billion squiggly line EBITDA and we talked about the CapEx. Could you walk us through the rest of free cash flow, lease payments, tax dividends, working capital for this year? So we could help dimension the cash burn?

然後只是一個後續問題。您提到了這條 40 億巴西雷亞爾波浪線 EBITDA，我們談到了資本支出。你能告訴我們今年剩下的自由現金流、租賃付款、稅收紅利、營運資金嗎？所以我們可以幫助衡量現金消耗？

Yes, they all go together. So it's good to kind of walk you through the cash proceeds and uses. So yes, we're going have, so we have a squiggly line of about BRL 4 billion in EBITDA. But for example, if you look, you know, compare our revenue to our cash inflows, which we have on the chart on the presentation, that cash inflow outpaces revenue, right. So there's an actual working capital good guy from the fact that we're recovering our network, we still have capacity to add.

是的，他們都在一起。因此，最好帶您了解現金收益和用途。所以是的，我們將擁有，所以我們的 EBITDA 約為 40 億巴西雷亞爾。但是，例如，如果你看，你知道，將我們的收入與我們在演示文稿圖表上的現金流入進行比較，現金流量超過收入，對吧。因此，從我們正在恢復我們的網絡這一事實來看，有一個實際的營運資金好人，我們仍然有能力增加。

So we're always selling an airline that's slightly bigger than the airline that we're flying. The opposite happens when you shrink the airline. But when you grow the airline, you actually have a good guy on the capital side. So you're going to be above BRL 4 billion in terms of operating cash generation. We have the rent which is in the neighborhood of BRL 4 billion. So with the operational cash flow, we can pay for rent, we can pay for finance leases, we can pay for interest, and that leaves you with essentially CapEx. It leaves you with debt repayment and deferral repayment.

因此，我們總是在銷售比我們所乘坐的航空公司略大的航空公司。當你縮小航空公司時，情況正好相反。但是當你發展航空公司時，你實際上在資本方面有一個好人。因此，就運營現金產生而言，您將超過 40 億雷亞爾。我們的租金約為 40 億雷亞爾。因此，有了運營現金流，我們可以支付租金，我們可以支付融資租賃，我們可以支付利息，這基本上讓您擁有資本支出。它讓您償還債務和延期還款。

The rent, again BRL 4 billion is sort of a number that's tied to the exchange rate of BRL 5.58 right. And so if you're thinking about BRL 5, the BRL 4 billion is going to be significantly lower, and the cash is going to be dramatically better like we mentioned to Mike earlier. So you have to kind of figure out what your FX assumption is to estimate a lot of these numbers. And like John said, for example, CapEx we can finance or we can decide to do or not do depending on the demand environment. If the demand environment is good, and I need the aircraft and probably I can't finance CapEx, right? If I can't finance CapEx that probably means the demand environment is bad and I don't need the aircraft.

租金，同樣是 40 億雷亞爾，是一個與 5.58 雷亞爾的匯率掛鉤的數字。因此，如果您考慮 5 雷亞爾，那麼 40 億雷亞爾將會顯著降低，而現金將會大大增加，就像我們之前對邁克所說的那樣。所以你必須弄清楚你的外匯假設是什麼來估計很多這些數字。就像約翰說的，例如，資本支出，我們可以融資，或者我們可以根據需求環境決定做或不做。如果需求環境好，我需要飛機，我可能無法為資本支出提供資金，對嗎？如果我不能為資本支出提供資金，那可能意味著需求環境很差，我不需要飛機。

So they all kind of go together. And they they're sort of a natural hedge in terms of cash needs, as we kind of bring the capacity back or need to have the resources to fly our network. For example, bank debt is very low and we were able to roll over bank debt when the situation was much more complicated than what it is today, right before we had vaccines. Before we were flying our network the way we were flying before we were producing BRL 1 billion in EBITDA.

所以他們都在一起。就現金需求而言，它們是一種自然的對沖，因為我們有點恢復能力或需要有資源來運行我們的網絡。例如，銀行債務非常低，當情況比現在復雜得多時，我們能夠將銀行債務展期，就在我們有疫苗之前。在我們以我們在 EBITDA 中產生 10 億雷亞爾之前的飛行方式飛行我們的網絡之前。

So we're very confident that if we need to roll over bank debt, we can do it. And we also have a very strong cash position. We ended the year with BRL 4.1 billion, and as we mentioned on the call our cash position going into the pandemic was around BRL 2 billion. So I can also kind of go back to more normal levels of liquidity as the situation also goes back to normal and use some of that money to pay the obligations that we have.

因此，我們非常有信心，如果我們需要展期銀行債務，我們可以做到。我們也有非常強大的現金頭寸。我們以 41 億雷亞爾結束了這一年，正如我們在電話會議上提到的那樣，我們進入大流行的現金頭寸約為 20 億雷亞爾。因此，隨著情況也恢復正常，我也可以恢復到更正常的流動性水平，並用其中的一些錢來支付我們所承擔的義務。

So I think it's clear when you saw our, when we called the management plan, right, to get through the pandemic. Remember, Azul did not have any help from the Brazilian government as American and European and Canadian airlines had, we did not file for Chapter 11, as multiple airlines in the region did. And so we had to create our own credit and working capital and we were able to count on the support of all of our stakeholders but we preserved, our bonds, obviously, right, because we want to have access to the capital markets and our stakeholders want us to have access to the capital markets.

所以我認為當你看到我們的時候很清楚，當我們調用管理計劃時，正確的，以度過大流行。請記住，Azul 沒有像美國、歐洲和加拿大的航空公司那樣得到巴西政府的任何幫助，我們沒有像該地區的多家航空公司那樣申請第 11 章。所以我們必須創造自己的信用和營運資金，我們能夠依靠所有利益相關者的支持，但我們保留了我們的債券，顯然是對的，因為我們希望能夠進入資本市場和我們的利益相關者希望我們能夠進入資本市場。

So I agree that the bonds, if you ask me personally, I do think they are trading much lower than they should, because we're going to obviously continue with the same approach that we had and we're in a situation that's much better now than when we for example, issued our 2026 bonds at essentially, 7.5 yields. So that's how we're going to continue managing our cash position.

因此，我同意債券，如果您親自問我，我確實認為它們的交易價格比應有的低得多，因為我們顯然將繼續採用與我們相同的方法，並且我們的情況要好得多現在比我們以基本上 7.5 的收益率發行 2026 年債券時相比。所以這就是我們將如何繼續管理我們的現金頭寸。

Our next question comes from Victor Mizusaki with Bradesco BBI.

我們的下一個問題來自 Victor Mizusaki 和 Bradesco BBI。

Congrats for the numbers. I have 2 questions here. The first one I mean, it's kind of a follow-up on the cargo business. I mean, I'd like to understand what is next for these operations, I mean a lot of news talking about some M&As happening in the sector. So if you see an opportunity here.

恭喜你的數字。我這裡有 2 個問題。我的意思是第一個，它是對貨運業務的跟進。我的意思是，我想了解這些業務的下一步是什麼，我的意思是很多新聞都在談論該行業發生的一些併購。因此，如果您在這裡看到機會。

And the second one, in our recent meetings with ANAC, the regulator said that maybe in the second quarter they may release new rules for reports like distribution in Brazil. So if it happens, how important is this for Azul?

第二個，在我們最近與 ANAC 的會議中，監管機構表示，他們可能會在第二季度發布新的報告規則，例如在巴西的分發。因此，如果發生這種情況，這對 Azul 來說有多重要？

Hey, I can take those sure, Victor. So regarding Azul Cargo so we've been pretty open that we want to keep evolving our capabilities in the sector, right. Of course, we have our route network, which carries 80% of our cargo. We have our 737, but now we have our Embraer E1s as well. But we want to keep building up our capabilities. And that includes, first mile, middle mile, last mile. We have no intention of buying trucks or anything like that. But we definitely want to have deeper relationships with our ground transport providers on all sides of the logistics chain.

嘿，我可以肯定，維克多。所以關於 Azul Cargo，我們一直非常開放，我們希望繼續發展我們在該領域的能力，對。當然，我們有自己的航線網絡，承載了我們 80% 的貨物。我們有我們的 737，但現在我們也有我們的 Embraer E1。但我們希望繼續增強我們的能力。這包括，第一英里，中間英里，最後一英里。我們無意購買卡車或類似的東西。但我們絕對希望與物流鏈各個環節的地面運輸供應商建立更深層次的關係。

And so we are looking at all opportunities, there's nothing to announce, nothing to say. But we want to be the FedEx of Brazil, and that FedEx has done in the US and that means having closer ties with different partners. We already have a network of 300 representatives around the country and we want to make those ties even stronger so that we have access to the capacity that we need for pickups and deliveries and in all geographies around the country whether it's the South, North, Sao Paulo, Rio, all those kinds of things. So we definitely want to keep building out logistics our capability, so we can deliver the more cities even faster. And so that's something that we're going to keep looking at and we'll do what makes sense.

所以我們正在尋找所有機會，沒有什麼可宣布的，沒有什麼可說的。但我們想成為巴西的聯邦快遞，聯邦快遞在美國已經做到了這一點，這意味著與不同的合作夥伴建立更緊密的聯繫。我們已經在全國建立了一個由 300 名代表組成的網絡，我們希望使這些聯繫更加牢固，以便我們能夠獲得我們在全國所有地區（無論是南部、北部還是聖保羅）進行取貨和交付所需的能力保羅，里約，所有這些。所以我們肯定想繼續增強我們的物流能力，這樣我們就可以更快地交付更多的城市。所以這是我們將繼續關注的事情，我們會做有意義的事情。

Regarding the slot distribution rules, you are correct. ANAC is reviewing the rule process. Obviously, we are very engaged, as are other interested parties like the other airlines in Brazil. The airport that it impacts the most is Congonhas, because that is an airport that is completely saturated and also closed, right? It's saturated, closed and concentrated in our opinion and those were the arguments that we have made. And we will make those arguments very similar to what we made when the Avianca Brasil slots were up for grabs back in 2019.

關於插槽分配規則，您是正確的。 ANAC 正在審查規則流程。顯然，我們和巴西其他航空公司等其他相關方都非常投入。它影響最大的機場是孔戈尼亞斯，因為那是一個完全飽和並且關閉的機場，對嗎？它在我們的觀點中是飽和的、封閉的和集中的，這些就是我們提出的論點。我們將使這些論點與我們在 2019 年 Avianca Brasil 老虎機搶購時的論點非常相似。

So no major change to our position and we will see what happens. None of that is in our baseline plan. Whatever is a result of that will be an addition to what we are planning for 2022. We have no expectations, but certainly we are making the arguments similar to what we made in 2019. And really, what we are focused on is Congonhas. And in terms of the overall capacity of the airport, there is room to increase capacity, so we would not be taking from (technical difficulty).

因此，我們的立場沒有重大變化，我們將看看會發生什麼。這些都不在我們的基線計劃中。無論結果如何，都將是我們對 2022 年計劃的補充。我們沒有任何期望，但我們肯定會提出與 2019 年類似的論點。實際上，我們關注的是孔戈尼亞斯。並且就機場的整體容量而言，還有增加容量的空間，所以我們不會從中拿走（技術難度）。

Our next question comes from [Isabella Lomas] with UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀的 [Isabella Lomas]。

Congratulations on result. I have 2 questions here. The first one is follow-up on CASK yields, specifically on the dynamics for this quarter because as we saw CASK into that 9% quarter-over-quarter we weren't expecting it would help us come across a region as well. However, we saw an increase in CapEx for the quarter of around 9% and we were wondering what could be the reason for this situation and how we could behave in the next year? I would appreciate if you could give us some color on this.

祝賀結果。我這裡有 2 個問題。第一個是對 CASK 收益率的跟進，特別是本季度的動態，因為當我們看到 CASK 環比增長 9% 時，我們並不認為它也會幫助我們進入一個地區。但是，我們看到本季度的資本支出增加了約 9%，我們想知道這種情況的原因是什麼，以及我們在明年的表現如何？如果你能給我們一些顏色，我將不勝感激。

And the second question is on the expenses adjustments regarding the [Confins division] at around BRL 610 million. Could you first give us some more detail of what exactly it is about and efficient possibilities as we're not expecting this?

第二個問題是關於[Confins部門]的費用調整約為6.1億雷亞爾。您能否先給我們一些關於它到底是什麼以及我們沒有預料到的有效可能性的更多細節？

So the bad guys in cash, what was the dynamic in cash, right? We're certainly more productive now more efficient now than we were before. And what's offsetting that more than offsetting, unfortunately is dollar, FX and inflation and cargo like I said, right. Dollar effects, inflation obviously are bad guys. And the whole industry needs to deal with those. And that's a main -- you're one of the drivers, one of the reasons why we are all trying to pass through cost increases to fares. If you control for all of those, you would see CASK going down for sure. You don't have to look at stage length again. We mentioned the domestic-international mix. But if you could look at the core CASK and just see, as it relates to the cost of operating the airline, you certainly will see improvement every quarter as we add capacity back from the reduction (technical difficulty)

那麼現金的壞人，現金的動態是什麼，對嗎？我們現在肯定比以前更有效率了。不幸的是，就像我說的那樣，美元、外匯、通貨膨脹和貨運比抵消更多的是抵消了這一點，對。美元效應，通貨膨脹顯然是壞人。整個行業都需要處理這些問題。這是一個主要因素——你是驅動因素之一，這也是我們都試圖將成本增加轉嫁到票價的原因之一。如果您控制所有這些，您肯定會看到 CASK 下降。您不必再次查看舞台長度。我們提到了國內和國際的混合。但是，如果您可以查看核心 CASK 並僅看到它與航空公司的運營成本相關，那麼您肯定會看到每個季度都有所改善，因為我們從減少的情況中恢復了運力（技術難度）

I would like to add. We flew more than 100 flights Campinas to Brussels in the fourth quarter. No ASK is associated with that. Obviously, that helps our revenue overall, and that's why you see a big gap up between the (inaudible) and the overall RASK. Alex mentioned this when he was responding to a previous question. But that BRL 1.1 billion of revenue that we produce didn't have (technical difficulty) associated with -- for our dedicated flights. And that also has a component that impacts our CASK.

我想補充。我們在第四季度飛行了 100 多次從坎皮納斯飛往布魯塞爾的航班。沒有 ASK 與此相關聯。顯然，這有助於我們的整體收入，這就是為什麼你看到（聽不清）和整體 RASK 之間存在很大差距的原因。亞歷克斯在回答之前的問題時提到了這一點。但是，我們產生的 11 億雷亞爾收入與我們的專用航班無關（技術難度）。這也有一個影響我們的 CASK 的組件。

Correct. Yes. Like I said, we're going to try to provide more - Cargo has become such an important (inaudible) business that it's producing things like the one we mentioned (technical difficulty) model that and understand what's actually helping to CASK. Because again, as we mentioned before, our airports are 30% more expensive, right. Our fleet transformation are more efficient. Our fleet transformation dramatically reduces CASK again. And that's why we don't like to use CASK ex fuel because one of the big advantages of having a modern next generation fleet like ours is a dramatic reduction in fuel. So you should look at constant fuel prices CASK as opposed to CASK ex fuel (technical difficulty) not serving and not capturing the dramatic reduction in fuel burn that we've had since we started (technical difficulty) lower fuel burn with the aircraft that we have today.

正確的。是的。就像我說的那樣，我們將嘗試提供更多——貨運已經成為一項如此重要（聽不清）的業務，以至於它正在生產我們提到的（技術難度）模型，並了解什麼對 CASK 有實際幫助。因為再一次，正如我們之前提到的，我們的機場要貴 30%，對吧。我們的車隊轉型更有效率。我們的車隊轉型再次顯著降低了 CASK。這就是為什麼我們不喜歡使用 CASK ex 燃料的原因，因為擁有像我們這樣的現代下一代機隊的一大優勢是燃料的顯著減少。因此，您應該查看恆定的燃料價格 CASK，而不是 CASK 燃料（技術難度）不提供服務，也沒有捕捉到自我們開始（技術難度）以來我們已經大幅減少的燃料消耗有今天。

And in terms of the provision, it is worth highlighting that (technical difficulty) than the accounting numbers. The big number there is the reversal of the one impairment and offsetting that partially it's all non-cash one-time revisions to provisions and COVID related expenses. So absolutely, they should be one-off and non-recurrent and they are all non-cash as well.

而在規定方面，比會計數字更值得強調的是（技術難度）。其中很大一部分是一項減值的逆轉，並部分抵消了對撥備和 COVID 相關費用的非現金一次性修訂。所以絕對，它們應該是一次性的和非經常性的，它們也是非現金的。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's question-and-answer session. I would like to invite John to proceed with his closing statements. Please, sir, go ahead.

女士們，先生們，今天的問答環節到此結束。我想請約翰繼續他的閉幕詞。先生，請繼續。

Thank you for joining us today. If you have any follow-up questions, feel free to reach to our Investor Relations team. We will be happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you.

感謝您今天加入我們。如果您有任何後續問題，請隨時聯繫我們的投資者關係團隊。我們很樂意回答您的任何問題。謝謝你。

Ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude the Azul's audio conference for today. Thank you very much for your participation and have a good day.

女士們先生們，今天的 Azul 音頻會議到此結束。非常感謝您的參與，祝您有美好的一天。