Azul SA (AZUL) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

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(Operator Instructions)

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I would like to turn the presentation over to Thais Haberli, Head of Investor Relations. Please, Thais, proceed.

我想將演講交給投資者關係主管 Thais Haberli。泰國人，請繼續。

Thank you, Zach, and welcome all to Azul's Preliminary Third Quarter Earnings Call. The preliminary results that we announced this morning, the audio of this call and the slides that we reference are available on our IR website.

謝謝扎克，歡迎大家參加 Azul 的第三季初步收益電話會議。我們今天早上宣布的初步結果、本次電話會議的音訊以及我們參考的幻燈片都可以在我們的 IR 網站上找到。

Presenting today will be David Neeleman, Azul's Founder and Chairman; and John Rodgerson, CEO. Alex Malfitani, our CFO; and Abhi Shah, the President of Azul, are also here for the Q&A session.

今天的演講嘉賓是 Azul 創辦人兼董事長 David Neeleman；和執行長約翰·羅傑森。亞歷克斯‧馬爾菲塔尼 (Alex Malfitani)，我們的財務長； Azul 總統 Abhi Shah 也出席了問答環節。

Also, it's important to mention that Azul has not yet published its interim financial statements for the 3 and 9 months ended September 30 due to the considerable volume and complexity of tests to ensure that all effects of its capital optimization plan are correctly reflected in the financial statements, and we'll keep the market updated on these efforts.

此外，值得一提的是，Azul 尚未公佈截至9 月30 日的3 個月和9 個月的中期財務報表，因為測試的數量和複雜性相當大，以確保其資本優化計劃的所有影響都能正確反映在財務報表中。聲明，我們將向市場通報這些努力的最新情況。

Before I turn the call over to David, I'd like to caution you regarding our forward-looking statements. Any matters discussed today that are not historical facts, particularly comments regarding the company's future plans, objectives and expected performance constitute forward-looking statements. These statements are based on a range of assumptions that the company believes are reasonable but are subject to uncertainties and risks that are discussed in detail in our CVM and SEC filings. During the course of the call, we will discuss non-IFRS performance measures, which should not be considered in isolation.

在我將電話轉給大衛之前，我想提醒您注意我們的前瞻性陳述。今天討論的任何非歷史事實的事項，特別是有關公司未來計劃、目標和預期業績的評論均構成前瞻性陳述。這些陳述是基於公司認為合理的一系列假設，但會受到我們的 CVM 和 SEC 文件中詳細討論的不確定性和風險的影響。在通話過程中，我們將討論非 IFRS 績效指標，不應孤立地考慮這些指標。

With that, I will turn the call over to David. David?

這樣，我就把電話轉給大衛。大衛？

Thanks, Thais. I welcome everyone, and thanks for joining us for our third quarter 2023 earnings call. As you can see on Slide 3, we continued to strengthen Brazil's largest network by adding more than 40 new destinations since 2019. We're the only carrier in almost 80% of our routes and the leader in departures in 90% of our markets, a profitable strategy we will maintain as we grow.

謝謝，泰國人。我歡迎大家，並感謝您參加我們的 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。正如您在投影片3 中看到的，自2019 年以來，我們透過增加40 多個新目的地，繼續加強巴西最大的網路。我們是幾乎80% 航線的唯一承運商，也是90% 市場出發航班的領先者，隨著我們的成長，我們將維持這項獲利策略。

In fact, if you look at our ASK growth since 2019, 80% has been in 5 cities, 4 of them hubs and the one exception being Congonhas. More importantly, we have demonstrated we can grow in a way that maintains our customer service excellence. We continue to run the most on-time airline in the region with the highest Net Promoter Scores. John is going to give you more details on the quarter, but let me still [extend it] for a second by summarizing on Slide 4.

事實上，如果你看看我們自 2019 年以來的需求成長，你會發現 80% 分佈在 5 個城市，其中 4 個是樞紐城市，孔戈尼亞斯是個例外。更重要的是，我們已經證明我們可以以維持卓越客戶服務的方式成長。我們繼續成為該地區準點率最高、淨推薦值最高的航空公司。約翰將向您提供有關本季度的更多詳細信息，但讓我[擴展]一下，對幻燈片 4 進行總結。

What this incredible team has achieved? Total revenues of BRL 4.9 billion in the quarter, an all-time record, 12% above last year and 62% above 2019. Fares and unit revenues are all up versus last year in stark contrast to many other airlines around the world where airlines have fallen, especially in the United States in a year-over-year comparison. Finally, an EBITDA of BRL 1.6 billion and EBIT of BRL 1 billion, both records and most importantly, both in EBITDA margin and operating margin above 2019 levels. These numbers are a clear demonstration of what the real Azul looks like and is capable of delivering.

這個令人難以置信的團隊取得了什麼成就？本季總收入達到 49 億雷亞爾，創歷史新高，比去年增長 12%，比 2019 年增長 62%。票價和單位收入均較去年上漲，這與全球許多其他航空公司形成鮮明對比。下降，尤其是在美國，與去年同期相比。最後，息稅折舊攤提前利潤(EBITDA) 為16 億雷亞爾，息稅前利潤(EBIT) 為10 億雷亞爾，均創歷史新高，最重要的是，息稅折舊及攤銷前利潤(EBITDA) 利潤率和營業利潤率均高於2019 年水準。這些數字清楚地展示了真正的 Azul 的外觀和性能。

This amazing team also implemented in record time, a comprehensive capital optimization plan and that we have already described to most all of you. Upon the conclusion of this plan, Azul will have no significant maturities until the end of 2028, and we can now rely on a strong balance sheet, leading liquidity position and lower cost of capital to continue leveraging our superior network, product offering and cost structure, all of which creates a strong cash flow from operations. And the best is yet to come.

這個令人驚嘆的團隊還以創紀錄的時間實施了全面的資本優化計劃，我們已經向你們大多數人描述了這項計劃。該計劃完成後，Azul 在2028 年底之前不會有重大到期日，我們現在可以依靠強大的資產負債表、領先的流動性狀況和較低的資本成本來繼續利用我們卓越的網絡、產品供應和成本結構，所有這些都創造了強勁的營運現金流。最好的尚未到來。

For example, you all know about the E2 opportunity. This aircraft has a lower fuel burn, lower maintenance costs, lower ownership costs, lower trip costs while generating more revenue with 18 additional seats than the old E1s. We only have 17 of them operating now. But by the end of 2024 next year, we'll have 33. This is just one reason why we are so excited on what we can achieve going forward. We're executing on our fleet transformation plan. Demand environment is strong. Our business units are all producing record revenues, and we are emerging as a more efficient airline. All I can say is thank you to each and every crew member. What they continue to deliver is absolutely incredible, and we are truly excited about the opportunities ahead of us.

例如，大家都知道E2機會。與舊款 E1 相比，這款飛機具有更低的燃油消耗、更低的維護成本、更低的擁有成本、更低的旅行成本，同時透過增加 18 個座位創造更多收入。我們現在只有 17 個在運作。但到明年 2024 年底，我們的數量將達到 33 個。這只是我們對未來的成就感到如此興奮的原因之一。我們正在執行我們的機隊轉型計劃。需求環境強勁。我們的業務部門都創造了創紀錄的收入，我們正在成為一家更有效率的航空公司。我只能說謝謝每一位工作人員。他們繼續提供的服務絕對令人難以置信，我們對眼前的機會感到非常興奮。

With that, let me turn the time over to John to give you more details about the third quarter results. John?

接下來，讓我將時間交給約翰，向您提供有關第三季業績的更多詳細資訊。約翰？

Thanks, David. I also want to start by thanking our entire Azul team for their passion and dedication. Just last week, we were voted the Best Airline in Brazil by Melhores Destinos, the largest travel site in Brazil. Our internal crew member satisfaction scores this year were another all-time record with 82% participation among our people and 87% favorability score.

謝謝，大衛。首先，我還要感謝整個 Azul 團隊的熱情和奉獻精神。就在上週，我們被巴西最大的旅遊網站 Melhores Destinos 評選為巴西最佳航空公司。今年，我們的內部船員滿意度得分再創新高，員工參與度達 82%，好感度得分達 87%。

Our team excels in delivering the Azul experience, our culture is stronger than ever, and our customers recognize the difference each and every time they fly Azul. Thanks to their dedication, we delivered another record result in the third quarter.

我們的團隊擅長提供 Azul 體驗，我們的文化比以往任何時候都更加強大，我們的客戶每次搭乘 Azul 航班時都會意識到差異。感謝他們的奉獻，我們在第三季再創歷史新高。

On Slide 5, we summarize the cumulative effects of the strong demand environment, along with the high growth in our business units. Our all-time record revenue of BRL 4.9 billion in the quarter represents a 62% increase over third quarter '19. This is a result of overall capacity up 19% and unit revenues up 36%. As you know, ASK growth often leads to a reduction in unit revenue, but demand for Azul flights is so high that we were able to simultaneously increase both capacity and fares. RASK in the quarter was BRL 0.4259, was a record for a third quarter and actually just missed the all-time RASK record for Azul by 0.3%. So overall, truly outstanding numbers across the board.

在投影片 5 中，我們總結了強勁需求環境以及我們業務部門高速成長的累積影響。我們本季的營收創歷史新高，達到 49 億雷亞爾，比 2019 年第三季成長 62%。這是由於總產能成長了 19%，單位收入增加了 36%。如您所知，ASK 成長通常會導致單位收入減少，但對 Azul 航班的需求如此之高，以至於我們能夠同時增加運力和票價。本季的RASK 為0.4259 雷亞爾，創下了第三季的紀錄，實際上僅比Azul 的歷史RASK 低了0.3%。總的來說，各個方面的數字確實非常出色。

Moving to Slide 6. You can see how the strength of our business model led us to 5% higher fares in the third quarter versus last year, even with fuel price dropping 33%. Remember, though, that fuel prices are still higher than 2019 and fuel prices in Brazil are the highest in the world. But as David said, this contrasts with what other regions around the world are experiencing, and this demand is consistent with what we've been seeing for almost 3 years now. Brazil had one of the fastest demand recoveries in the world, and Azul had the fastest demand recovery in Brazil. I don't know many airlines around the world whose revenues are 62% higher than 2019.

轉到幻燈片 6。您可以看到，儘管燃油價格下降了 33%，但我們業務模式的優勢如何使我們第三季的票價比去年上漲了 5%。但請記住，燃油價格仍高於 2019 年，而且巴西的燃油價格是世界上最高的。但正如大衛所說，這與世界其他地區正在經歷的情況形成鮮明對比，而且這種需求與我們近三年來所看到的情況是一致的。巴西是世界上需求復甦最快的國家之一，Azul 是巴西需求復甦最快的國家之一。我不知道全球有多少家航空公司的收入比 2019 年高出 62%。

Our business units continue to outperform, further adding to our arsenal of competitive advantages as we show on Slide 7. Our loyalty program is now approaching 17 million members with high customer engagement.

我們的業務部門持續表現出色，進一步增強了我們的競爭優勢，如幻燈片 7 所示。我們的忠誠度計畫現已接近 1,700 萬會員，客戶參與度很高。

Our co-branded credit card is doing incredibly well with a significant portion of the membership base coming from the Platinum and Infinity categories, premium segments with high levels of personal spending. In fact, our projection for total card member spend in 2024 is equivalent to 0.5% of the entire GDP of Brazil being spent on our credit card.

我們的聯名信用卡表現非常出色，會員基數很大一部分來自白金卡和無限卡，這些都是個人消費水平較高的高端細分市場。事實上，我們對 2024 年持卡會員總支出的預測相當於巴西 GDP 總量的 0.5% 用在我們的信用卡上。

Our vacations business continues to break records every month. It is now 3x larger than 2019. This growth is extremely well aligned with our business model as it takes advantage of our low aircraft utilization on nights and weekends.

我們的假期業務每個月都在不斷打破記錄。現在是 2019 年的 3 倍。這種成長與我們的業務模式非常吻合，因為它利用了我們在夜間和週末飛機利用率較低的優勢。

Finally, our logistics business, Azul Cargo, continues its growth trajectory and maintains its position as Brazil's largest domestic provider. We know that global cargo market is in a tough spot right now with many airlines reporting revenue decreases of around 30%. Azul Cargo, on the other hand, is performing significantly better and continues to show revenue growth, especially in the domestic market. We continue to win over new clients and to increase our partnership with existing ones. You may have seen the news that Amazon at a recent global event in Seattle announced Azul as their partner for air logistics all throughout Brazil.

最後，我們的物流業務 Azul Cargo 繼續保持成長勢頭，並保持巴西最大國內供應商的地位。我們知道，全球貨運市場目前處境艱難，許多航空公司報告收入下降了 30% 左右。另一方面，Azul Cargo 的表現明顯更好，並繼續顯示收入成長，尤其是在國內市場。我們繼續贏得新客戶並加強與現有客戶的合作關係。您可能已經看到這樣的消息：亞馬遜最近在西雅圖舉行的全球活動中宣布 Azul 成為其在整個巴西的航空物流合作夥伴。

On Slide 8, we turn to the cost side of the business. We told you we would emerge a more efficient airline, and that's exactly what we've done. Controlling for headcount at our hanger, which did not exist in 2019, Azul today generates 40% more revenue per full-time employee than we did in 2019. This is -- this result is remarkable. We now have the lowest CASK in the region, not just when comparing aircraft within the same category, the A320neo compared to our competitors and with the 737.

在投影片 8 中，我們轉向業務的成本面。我們告訴過您，我們將打造一家更有效率的航空公司，而這正是我們所做的。控制我們機庫的員工人數（2019 年還不存在），如今 Azul 每個全職員工的收入比 2019 年增加了 40%。這個結果非常了不起。我們現在擁有該地區最低的 CASK，不僅僅是在比較同類飛機時，A320neo 與我們的競爭對手以及 737 相比。

We already had the lowest cost there, but now we have the lowest CASK overall, even with a smaller aircraft in our fleet. And as someone once said, low cost always wins. We have the most efficient cost structure in the region, and we will improve it further with our fleet transformation. This really gets us excited about the future.

我們在那裡的成本已經是最低的，但現在我們的總體成本是最低的，即使我們機隊中的飛機較小。正如有人曾經說過的，低成本總是獲勝。我們擁有該地區最高效的成本結構，我們將透過機隊轉型進一步改善這一結構。這確實讓我們對未來感到興奮。

As you can see on Slide 9, we significantly increased the rate of E2 deliveries, doubling the size of that fleet in the last 12 months. The E2 delivers 18% lower fuel burn compared to the E1 with 18 more seats, leading to a 26% lower cost per seat. In 2023, we still had twice as many departures on our E1s than our E2s. As this ratio switches in favor of E2s, this will drive significant margin expansion going forward. This fleet transformation that is unparalleled in the region, in addition to making financial sense is also clearly a more sustainable way to grow. Our fuel consumption per ASK and carbon emissions per ASK are down an incredible 24% compared to 2016.

正如您在幻燈片 9 中看到的，我們顯著提高了 E2 的交付率，在過去 12 個月內將機隊規模擴大了一倍。與多了 18 個座位的 E1 相比，E2 的燃油消耗降低了 18%，使每個座位的成本降低了 26%。到 2023 年，我們 E1 的出發次數仍然是 E2 的兩倍。隨著這一比率轉向 E2，這將推動未來利潤率大幅擴張。這種機隊轉型在該地區是無與倫比的，除了具有財務意義外，顯然也是一種更可持續的成長方式。與 2016 年相比，我們的每 ASK 燃料消耗和每 ASK 碳排放量下降了 24%，令人難以置信。

Turning to Slide 10, you can see the result of all these remarkable attributes, an all-time record EBITDA of BRL 1.6 billion and a 31.6% EBITDA margin. We have surpassed pre-pandemic EBITDA even with fuel 60% higher and an exchange rate 23% weaker to the dollar. Frankly, these numbers speak for themselves. This demonstrates the strength of our business and our structural competitive advantage.

翻到投影片 10，您可以看到所有這些卓越特性的結果：16 億雷亞爾的 EBITDA 歷史記錄和 31.6% 的 EBITDA 利潤率。即使燃油價格上漲 60%、美元兌美元匯率貶值 23%，我們的 EBITDA 仍超過了疫情前的水平。坦白說，這些數字不言而喻。這證明了我們的業務實力和結構性競爭優勢。

Turning to Slide [7], you can see the significant increase in liquidity obtained through our capital optimization plan we concluded in September. As you recall, this plan yielded new agreements with practically all of our lessors and OEMs with a reduction in lease liabilities and improvement in cash flow. Given the scope and complexity of this plan, we haven't yet published our interim financial statements, and we'll keep the market updated on these efforts. Also thanks to this plan and all the support of our crew members, partners and stakeholders, we have no significant debt maturities until 2028, as you can see on Slide 12. Now we can turn our attentions to focus on our business and growing it.

轉向幻燈片[7]，您可以看到透過我們在 9 月制定的資本優化計劃，流動性顯著增加。正如您所記得的，該計劃與我們幾乎所有的出租人和原始設備製造商達成了新協議，減少了租賃負債並改善了現金流。考慮到該計劃的範圍和複雜性，我們尚未發布中期財務報表，我們將隨時向市場通報這些努力的最新情況。另外，由於這項計劃以及我們的工作人員、合作夥伴和利益相關者的所有支持，我們在2028 年之前沒有重大債務到期，正如您在幻燈片12 中看到的那樣。現在我們可以將注意力轉向我們的業務並不斷發展。

On Slide 13, we show further evidence that demand in Brazil remains strong by comparing our expectation for fourth quarter RASK versus Bloomberg consensus for other airlines. In addition to the domestic market, our international network, which is now more than 100% recovered compared to 2019, is performing extremely well with our complete network to the U.S. and growth in Europe with our new Paris service. Pricing and capacity discipline in the Brazilian market continue to be solid. This, together with our unique network advantages and flexible fleet deployment should result in unit revenue growth in the fourth quarter of 2023, leading again to an all-time record.

在投影片 13 中，我們透過比較我們對第四季RASK 的預期與彭博社對其他航空公司的共識，進一步證明巴西的需求依然強勁。除了國內市場外，我們的國際網絡與 2019 年相比現已恢復 100% 以上，並且憑藉我們完整的美國網絡以及新的巴黎服務在歐洲的增長，表現非常出色。巴西市場的定價和產能紀律仍然穩固。再加上我們獨特的網路優勢和靈活的機隊部署，應會導致 2023 年第四季的單位收入成長，再次創下歷史記錄。

As you can see on Slide 14, Azul is the leading operator in next-gen aircraft in the region, with 79% of our ASKs flown by next-gen aircraft. Given that fuel prices in Brazil are about $1 per gallon higher than the United States, flying a young, fuel-efficient fleet is crucial. The fact that our fleet transformation is far ahead of our peers is a clear structural advantage that will remain for years to come.

正如您在幻燈片 14 中看到的，Azul 是該地區下一代飛機的領先營運商，我們 79% 的 ASK 是由下一代飛機執行的。鑑於巴西的燃油價格比美國每加侖高出約 1 美元，因此擁有一支年輕、省油的機隊至關重要。事實上，我們的機隊轉型遠遠領先於同行，這是一個明顯的結構性優勢，並將在未來幾年內持續存在。

We also continue to outpace our competitors in next-gen deliveries, especially given the fact that Embraer, one of our main partners, is experiencing fewer delivery delays than its competitors. We have roughly 1 Embraer E2 entering the fleet every month of 2024. Remember, we fly the most fuel-efficient aircraft over the shortest stage length with the lowest unit cost in charging the highest average fares. That's pretty hard to beat.

我們在下一代交付方面也繼續超越競爭對手，特別是考慮到我們的主要合作夥伴之一巴西航空工業公司的交付延誤情況比競爭對手要少。到2024 年，我們每個月都會有大約1 架巴西航空工業公司E2 進入機隊。請記住，我們在最短的航程長度內駕駛最省油的飛機，以最低的單位成本收取最高的平均票價。這很難被擊敗。

Finally, on Slide 16, we estimate 2023 EBITDA to be around BRL 5.2 billion, slightly lower than the previous projection as a result of the recent volatility in fuel prices and our adjusted capacity growth, together with international cargo volumes being down. However, with strong demand we are seeing, together with our -- all of our margin expansion initiatives, including the E2, we already mentioned here, we increased our 2024 EBITDA expectation to BRL 6.3 billion. I truly believe the best is yet to come.

最後，在投影片 16 上，我們預計 2023 年 EBITDA 約為 52 億雷亞爾，略低於先前的預測，原因是近期燃油價格波動、我們調整後的運力成​​長以及國際貨運量下降。然而，由於我們看到強勁的需求，加上我們所有的利潤擴張計劃，包括我們已經提到的 E2，我們將 2024 年 EBITDA 預期提高到 63 億雷亞爾。我堅信最好的尚未到來。

In the last 3 years, we have focused on getting through the pandemic and then optimizing our capital structure. Now that this chapter has been completed, we can really focus on the future. That means accelerating our fleet transformation, unlocking value in our loyalty program by pricing our points for profit maximization, investing heavily in our co-branded card, attacking structural costs in Brazil, like the high-level litigation in the country. These results we show today are just a start. That is why we are so excited for 2024 and beyond.

過去三年，我們的重點是度過疫情，然後優化我們的資本結構。現在本章已經完成，我們可以真正關注未來了。這意味著加快我們的機隊轉型，透過為我們的積分定價以實現利潤最大化來釋放我們的忠誠度計劃的價值，大力投資我們的聯名卡，攻擊巴西的結構性成本，例如該國的高層訴訟。我們今天展示的這些結果只是一個開始。這就是為什麼我們對 2024 年及以後感到如此興奮。

With that, David, Alex, Abhi and I are here to answer your questions. Operator?

大衛、亞歷克斯、阿比和我在這裡回答你們的問題。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) This question will come from Gabriel Rezende, sell-side analyst from Itau BBA.

（操作員說明）這個問題將由 Itau BBA 的賣方分析師 Gabriel Rezende 提出。

I'll start with a follow-up on, John, last comment regarding the guidance for 2024. It will be nice if you guys could provide us some color on how you're seeing the pass-through on forward bookings. Just trying to understand the assumptions for the higher fuel costs being passed through into the tariffs that you are selling right now for 2024.

我將首先跟進約翰關於 2024 年指導的最後評論。如果你們能為我們提供一些關於你們如何看待遠期預訂傳遞的信息，那就太好了。只是想了解將更高的燃料成本轉嫁給您現在出售的 2024 年關稅的假設。

And second -- just quickly on a second point, if you could comment also on the OEM supply chain issues, whether you're seeing some deterioration on improvement looking forward or whether we could see some more delays in terms of aircraft being delivered to you guys. And sorry, Abhi, please go on.

其次，請快速談一下第二點，如果您也能評論一下 OEM 供應鏈問題，您是否會看到未來的改進有所惡化，或者我們是否會看到向您交付飛機方面出現更多延誤夥計們。抱歉，阿比，請繼續。

Gabriel, yes, thanks for the question. We feel pretty good about the revenue environment. We've seen very good fare discipline, very good discipline on the capacity side as well. In fact, if you look at capacity in the domestic market compared to 2019, 4Q this year is actually flat, even slightly negative to what we had 4 years ago. Roughly 28 billion to 30 billion ASKs. So -- and I think that, that capacity discipline is going to continue for next year and beyond. Everybody is facing the same issues with fuel going up and down, interest rates. So I really think the industry overall is very much interested in maximizing results and focusing on where they are strong.

加布里埃爾，是的，謝謝你的提問。我們對收入環境感覺非常好。我們看到了非常好的票價紀律，在運能方面也有非常好的紀律。事實上，如果你對比2019年國內市場的產能，今年第四季其實是持平的，甚至比四年前略有負值。大約 280 億到 300 億個請求。因此，我認為，這種能力紀律將在明年及以後繼續下去。每個人都面臨同樣的問題，例如燃料的上漲和下跌、利率。所以我真的認為整個行業對最大化結果並專注於他們的強項非常感興趣。

Like as David said in the opening, we've increased capacity, but 80% of it has been in 5 cities, all except a Congonhas is our hub. So our assumption for unit revenues for next year is basically what we are seeing at the back half of this year and then you take that forward all through next year. So, just run rate performance with the growth in our business units, which is a little bit of recovery in Azul Cargo, continued growth in our vacations business, Azul Viagens, and our loyalty business. So we're not expecting something very different than what we are seeing already this year, overall market discipline and growth in our business units.

正如大衛在開場白中所說，我們增加了運力，但其中 80% 分佈在 5 個城市，除了孔戈尼亞斯以外，所有城市都是我們的樞紐。因此，我們對明年單位收入的假設基本上是我們在今年下半年看到的，然後你將其推進到明年。因此，隨著我們業務部門的成長，即 Azul Cargo 的一點復甦、我們的度假業務、Azul Viagens 和我們的忠誠度業務的持續成長，我們的業績表現得以實現。因此，我們預計整體市場紀律和業務部門的成長不會與今年的情況有很大不同。

I just want to talk quickly the OEM delays. Airbus, Boeing, Embraer, Rolls-Royce, everybody has their challenges. And we received a delay notification for aircraft we're supposed to receive in 2026, right? So I don't think this is a problem that gets resolved in the short term. I think the new technology that these engines are burning significantly less fuel. They just don't stay on wing as long, right? And so engines that were supposed to stay on wing for 20,000 hours are coming off at 5,000 hours. And I think there's a fight in the market for spares versus production aircraft.

我只想快速談談 OEM 延遲問題。空中巴士、波音、巴西航空工業公司、勞斯萊斯，每個人都有自己的挑戰。我們收到了本應在 2026 年收到的飛機延誤通知，對吧？所以我認為這是一個短期內無法解決的問題。我認為新技術使這些引擎燃燒的燃料顯著減少。他們只是不會在機翼上待那麼久，對吧？因此，原本應該在機翼上工作 20,000 小時的引擎在 5,000 小時後就報廢了。我認為市場上存在備件與生產飛機之間的競爭。

And so I think what we're seeing today in terms of capacity around the world, capacity will be constrained for the foreseeable future until the OEMs fix that. I think that's a good thing as we look forward into 2024 and beyond. We're really excited that Embraer -- we worked through our delivery schedule with Embraer next year. We're getting 13 new shells from them next year, not all on time, right? Some of those were supposed to be delivered earlier, but we do have a horizon as to when they're being delivered. But I think it's across the board, and I think all the OEMs are impacted by it, and it's a challenge that the industry has overall. So it's not necessarily specific to any manufacturer specific to Azul. It's just an across the board problem that the OEMs are having.

因此，我認為，就我們今天所看到的全球產能而言，在可預見的未來，產能將受到限制，直到原始設備製造商解決這個問題。我認為這是一件好事，因為我們展望 2024 年及以後。我們對巴西航空工業公司感到非常興奮——我們與巴西航空工業公司共同製定了明年的交付計劃。明年我們會從他們那裡得到 13 枚新砲彈，但不是全部都準時，對吧？其中一些本來應該提前交付，但我們確實對它們何時交付有一個展望。但我認為這是全面的，所有的原始設備製造商都受到了影響，這是整個產業面臨的挑戰。因此，它不一定特定於 Azul 的任何特定製造商。這只是原始設備製造商面臨的全面問題。

The next question will come from [John Field], sell-side analyst for Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題將來自高盛 (Goldman Sachs) 賣方分析師約翰·菲爾德 (John Field)。

Two from our side. The first one relates to the liquidity you guys posted, right? So I would just like to get your help to reconcile your immediate liquidity change quarter-over-quarter, given the recent bond emission and the commitments you guys had in 3Q, right? So we saw immediate liquidity rise by BRL 1.5 billion in 3Q, while you guys have raised roughly 4 billion -- BRL 4 billion, sorry, in the third quarter, the 2028 notes, right? So I would just like to get a sense from you guys to what were the key uses for the cash you guys raised it?

我們這邊有兩個。第一個與你們發布的流動性有關，對嗎？因此，考慮到最近的債券發行和你們在第三季的承諾，我只想得到你們的幫助來協調你們的即時流動性變化，對嗎？因此，我們看到第三季度流動性立即增加了 15 億雷亞爾，而你們在第三季度籌集了大約 40 億雷亞爾——40 億雷亞爾，對不起，2028 年票據，對吧？所以我想了解你們籌集的資金的主要用途是什麼？

And then a second one, super quick, related to the other operating expenses. This quarter was significantly higher than the previous ones. So I just wanted to understand if this is the new level we should expect going forward or we should see a normalization back to last quarter's average.

然後是第二個，非常快，與其他營運費用相關。本季明顯高於前幾季。所以我只是想了解這是否是我們未來應該預期的新水平，或者我們應該看到正常化回到上季度的平均水平。

Sure. Thanks, John. Yes. So the BRL 4 billion number roughly that you mentioned, obviously, that's the gross capital raise that we had. We are going to provide a lot more detail once we have our interim financials with the auditor's review. But just to give you a preview, some of this went to paying down debt, and we provided already some of this information on the exchange offer because we paid down some of the bonds that were exchanged from 2024 into 2029 were already paid down. So that is future debt payments that we have already made right now.

當然。謝謝，約翰。是的。因此，您提到的大約 40 億雷亞爾顯然是我們的融資總額。一旦我們獲得經過審計師審查的中期財務數據，我們將提供更多詳細資訊。但為了給大家預覽一下，其中一些用於償還債務，我們已經提供了有關交換要約的一些信息，因為我們償還了 2024 年至 2029 年交換的一些債券已經償還。這就是我們現在已經支付的未來債務償還。

We also paid down some of our convertible debenture, which is also a principal that has been paid down now versus in the future. Obviously, when you do a capital raise like this, we actually had 4 big transactions, right? When you think about it, we had the big capital raise of $800 million. We also had 2 exchange offers that together got to almost $1 billion plus the exchange of the convertible note. All of that, unfortunately, requires lawyers and fees and emoluments and advisers, which also took some of that money.

我們也償還了部分可轉換債券，這也是現在與未來償還的本金。顯然，當你進行這樣的融資時，我們實際上進行了 4 筆大交易，對吧？想想看，我們籌集了 8 億美元的巨額資金。我們也提出了 2 項交換要約，加上可轉換票據的交換，總價值近 10 億美元。不幸的是，所有這些都需要律師、費用、薪水和顧問，這也需要其中一些錢。

But having said that, as we have told you already before, this was a much more cost-efficient way to restructure our balance sheet, right? We estimate that we paid maybe 20% to 30% of what a court process would have cost us, right, and what our -- what some of our competitors went through, right? So -- but there is a big number of fees there. And then there are some adjustments into payments to lessors that we hadn't paid. We had gotten some bridge financing from lessors, which were paid some of it when the capital raise happened. And then we had gotten some deferrals from our fuel suppliers mainly that we also paid down when we did the capital raise.

但話雖如此，正如我們之前已經告訴過您的那樣，這是重組我們資產負債表的一種更具成本效益的方式，對吧？我們估計，我們支付的費用可能是法院程序費用的 20% 到 30%，對吧，以及我們的一些競爭對手所經歷的費用，對吧？所以——但是那裡有大量的費用。然後對我們尚未支付給出租人的付款進行了一些調整。我們從出租人那裡獲得了一些過橋融資，融資時向出租人支付了部分資金。然後我們從燃料供應商那裡得到了一些延期付款，主要是我們在融資時也支付了這些延期付款。

So the important, I think, concept to everybody to keep in mind here is that, yes, the cash increase obviously was not as high as $4 billion or BRL 4 billion for all the reasons that I mentioned. But the cash generation is as strong as ever, right? So the restructuring that we did and primarily the reduction in lease payments that we were able to negotiate and also in the CapEx deferral repayments that we had originally contracted that has significantly decreased, and it should allow us to deliver on the cash flow generation that we indicated when we published the -- when we talked about the capital optimization plan.

因此，我認為每個人都要記住的重要概念是，是的，由於我提到的所有原因，現金增加顯然沒有高達 40 億美元或 40 億雷亞爾。但現金產生能力一如既往地強勁，對嗎？因此，我們進行的重組，主要是我們能夠協商的租賃付款的減少，以及我們最初簽訂的資本支出延期還款的減少，都已顯著減少，這應該使我們能夠實現我們預期的現金流量產生。當我們發布--當我們談論資本優化計劃時指出。

And we cleaned up the payables, right? As Alex said, there were some fuel notes that we've got some deferrals on. We have no debt maturities coming in the next 5 years. So we -- there was a lot of cleanup that happened. We feel very good about the cash balance where we're at today, especially with where we're at, we invested some CapEx in the quarter as well. That was a significant thing because the airline is getting back to growth. And I think that, that was an important use of the proceeds as well. Now that we fixed the balance sheet, we can focus the airline back on growth again.

我們清理了應付帳款，對嗎？正如亞歷克斯所說，我們已經推遲了一些燃料票據。未來 5 年內我們沒有債務到期。所以我們進行了大量的清理工作。我們對目前的現金餘額感覺非常好，特別是我們在本季也投資了一些資本支出。這是一件意義重大的事情，因為該航空公司正在恢復成長。我認為，這也是收益的一個重要用途。既然我們修復了資產負債表，我們就可以讓航空公司再次專注於成長。

Exactly. And then on other expense, this is sort of a catchall. And so there are many things within this line. None of them are sort of big enough yet for us to kind of break them out, but we discussed that often here. But some of these expenses are driven, for example, by revenues. For example, GDS fees as our reservations increase, sometimes when we start flying internationally, we start using more GDSs and then you see an increase in those fees by even more than our ASK growth, right? Some of these numbers here are driven by the exchange rates. Some of these are driven by passenger accounts. But this is where we also recognize the cost of litigation, right? And that is a number that we've been talking about, about the fact that this is increasing.

確切地。然後在其他費用上，這有點包羅萬象。因此，這一行中有很多東西。它們都還不夠大，不足以讓我們將它們分解出來，但我們經常在這裡討論這一點。但其中一些支出是由收入驅動的。例如，隨著我們的預訂增加，GDS 費用也會增加，有時當我們開始國際飛行時，我們開始使用更多的 GDS，然後您會發現這些費用的增加甚至超過了 ASK 的增長，對吧？其中一些數字是由匯率驅動的。其中一些是由乘客帳戶驅動的。但這也是我們承認訴訟成本的地方，對吧？這是我們一直在談論的數字，關於這個數字正在增加的事實。

There is a bit of a -- the cost of litigation is not a smooth number every quarter. I think this one was a particularly high quarter compared to historical levels and particularly compared to the same quarter last year. But this is something that the industry is very focused on. It's a cost that all passengers in Brazil have to bear in spite of the fact that the customer experience in Brazil is one of the best in the world, right? We are the most on-time airline in the world. We have one of the highest NPS scores in the world, and there are other Brazilian airlines in these on-time rankings as well, right? So this is something that I think we're all collectively interested, not just the airlines, not just the industry, but I think even the regulator and the government are interesting in fighting.

有一點——每季的訴訟成本並不是一個平穩的數字。我認為與歷史水平相比，特別是與去年同期相比，這一季度的水平特別高。但這是業界非常關注的事情。儘管巴西的客戶體驗是世界上最好的之一，但這是巴西所有乘客都必須承擔的成本，對吧？我們是世界上最準點的航空公司。我們是世界上 NPS 得分最高的航空公司之一，還有其他巴西航空也躋身準點率排行榜，對嗎？所以我認為這是我們大家共同感興趣的事情，不僅僅是航空公司，不僅僅是行業，而且我認為甚至監管機構和政府也有興趣進行鬥爭。

I've said often that we're now back to focusing on running the business. And so to answer your question, is this the new norm? It better not be. We're going to drive the cost of this airline to be even more efficient going forward. We have a task force to go after a lot of these initiatives on a go-forward basis. And so nobody is happy with where that line is, and you'll see improvement going forward. And there's several things we're working with the government on, as Alex said, on the litigation side, but there's other things that we're doing. Now we're focusing on running the business. We're focusing on driving our unit costs even lower.

我常說，我們現在又回到專注於經營業務。所以回答你的問題，這是新常態嗎？最好不是。我們將進一步提高這家航空公司的成本效率。我們有一個工作小組來持續推進許多此類舉措。因此，沒有人對這條線的位置感到滿意，而且你會看到未來的改進。正如亞歷克斯所說，在訴訟方面，我們正在與政府合作進行幾項工作，但我們仍在做其他事情。現在我們專注於經營業務。我們致力於進一步降低單位成本。

The next question will come from Gabriel Raposo, Bradesco -- sell-side analyst, Bradesco.

下一個問題將來自布拉德斯科 (Bradesco) 賣方分析師加布里埃爾·拉波索 (Gabriel Raposo)。

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay. So I have 2 questions from our side here. The first one, we saw that Azul and peers are in talks with the government over airfare prices. So could you give us some color about this discussion and if there is any kind of discussion also regarding the fuel prices?

好的。我們這邊有兩個問題。第一個，我們看到 Azul 和同行正在與政府就機票價格進行談判。那麼您能否給我們一些關於這次討論的資訊以及是否也有關於燃油價格的任何類型的討論？

And the second one is related to the VOA Brazil program. The Ministry of Ports and Airports should submit by November 15, the official proposal for the program. So could you guys update us about this program? And how should we expect Azul benefiting from this looking ahead?

第二個與美國之音巴西節目有關。港口和機場部應在 11 月 15 日之前提交該計劃的正式提案。你們能為我們介紹一下這個計劃的最新情況嗎？我們應該如何期望 Azul 從這項展望中受益？

Yes. Great. Thanks for the question. I have a pretty active agenda in Brasilia and working closely with this new government on opportunities for Brazil, right? I think, what's an opportunity for Brazil? Brazil still has the highest fuel cost in the world. Brazil still has the highest civil claims in the world for aviation, where we're 3% of the world's flights, we're 92% of the world's civil lawsuits, and we run the most on-time airline in Brazil. Those are huge opportunities for this industry.

是的。偉大的。謝謝你的提問。我在巴西利亞有一個非常積極的議程，並與新政府密切合作，為巴西提供機遇，對嗎？我想，巴西的機會是什麼？巴西仍然是世界上燃料成本最高的國家。巴西仍然是世界上航空民事索賠最高的國家，我們的航班佔全球的 3%，我們的民事訴訟佔全球的 92%，我們經營巴西最準點的航空公司。這些對於這個行業來說是巨大的機會。

There are huge opportunities to invite more people to fly. And so I don't think the government is happy with where fares are in the country today, but fares need to be at these levels given the cost of capital, interest rates and the highest fuel cost in Brazil. So the agenda in Brasilia is to look at fuel prices, look at the cost of capital, look at these lawsuits and how can we invite more people to fly, which kind of leads to your second question, which is VOA Brazil, and that's getting the Class C of Brazil to fly.

有巨大的機會邀請更多人搭乘飛機。因此，我認為政府對該國目前的票價並不滿意，但考慮到巴西的資本成本、利率和最高的燃料成本，票價需要保持在這樣的水平。因此，巴西利亞的議程是關注燃油價格，專注於資本成本，關注這些訴訟，以及我們如何邀請更多的人搭乘飛機，這就引出了你的第二個問題，即美國之音巴西站，這就是巴西C級飛行。

And I think our biggest desire is to have more people entering into aviation and flying more with us. We want to grow this airline. We think there's tremendous opportunity. We're currently in 160 cities in Brazil, and Abhi has a forecast to be in 200 cities in Brazil. And we need to do that by attacking the structural cost disadvantages that Brazil has, which creates an opportunity to create more jobs in Brazil, create more opportunity. Any time you hire a pilot, a maintenance technician is one of the best jobs you can get in Brazil. And so, VOA Brazil is a great program overall.

我認為我們最大的願望是讓更多的人進入航空業並與我們一起飛行更多。我們希望發展這家航空公司。我們認為存在著巨大的機會。目前，我們已在巴西的 160 個城市開展業務，Abhi 預計將在巴西的 200 個城市開展業務。我們需要透過解決巴西的結構性成本劣勢來做到這一點，這創造了在巴西創造更多就業機會的機會。每當您僱用飛行員時，維修技術員都是您在巴西能找到的最好的工作之一。因此，總體而言，美國之音巴西頻道是一個很棒的節目。

We've been working very closely with the 2 ministers, one Minister Marcio Franca that started the program and then now Minister Silvio, who's kind of taking it on. But there was a change, and that's one of the reasons why it hasn't gotten off the ground yet, but we're fully supportive of it. And I think there's a lot of opportunity in Brazil. Look at what Azul's been able to do with the highest fuel cost in the world. Look at what Azul's been able to do with the highest civil claims in the world. Imagine how many more Brazilians could be traveling by airplane if we attack some of these structural things. That's why I think there's great opportunity in Brazil today.

我們一直在與兩位部長密切合作，一位是馬西奧·弗蘭卡部長，他發起了該計劃，而現在是西爾維奧部長，他正在承擔這個項目。但發生了變化，這也是它尚未啟動的原因之一，但我們完全支持它。我認為巴西有很多機會。看看 Azul 能夠以世界上最高的燃料成本做什麼。看看 Azul 能夠在世界上最高的民事索賠中做些什麼。想像一下，如果我們攻擊其中一些結構性物體，將會有多少巴西人會搭飛機旅行。這就是為什麼我認為今天巴西有很好的機會。

Fuel prices today are still 60% higher than they were in 2019. That's one of the reasons why fares are up. We're grateful that fares are up because we need to run a profitable business. It's good for our people. It's good for investors. It's good for our growth going forward. And so I think the agenda in Brasilia is very positive.

如今的燃油價格仍比 2019 年高出 60%。這也是票價上漲的原因之一。我們很高興票價上漲，因為我們需要經營獲利的業務。這對我們的人民有好處。這對投資者來說是件好事。這對我們今後的發展是有好處的。因此，我認為巴西利亞的議程非常積極。

The next question will come from Michael Linenberg, sell-side analyst from Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題將來自德意志銀行賣方分析師麥可‧林伯格（Michael Linenberg）。

Can you guys hear me?

你們聽得到我說話嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Great. I guess I have a couple here. John, and Abhi, you talked about how strong the demand environment is in Brazil. And yet when you look at the overall GDP estimates and sort of where we are right now in Brazil and over the next quarter or 2, it does look like we may be going through a bit of a soft patch. Are you seeing anything with respect to corporate or even discretionary travel that would reinforce the fact that Brazil may be going in through a bit of a downturn and not just Brazil, but the Southern Cone? Anything -- or are you defying sort of the macro backdrop?

偉大的。我想我這裡有一對。約翰和阿比，你們談到了巴西的需求環境有多強勁。然而，當你看看總體 GDP 估計以及巴西目前和未來一兩個季度的情況時，你會發現我們確實可能正在經歷一段疲軟時期。您是否看到有關企業旅行甚至隨意旅行的任何事情可以強化這樣一個事實：巴西可能正在經歷一些低迷，不僅是巴西，而且是南錐體地區？任何事情——或者你是否違背了宏觀背景？

Mike, so 3Q flown revenue was pretty good. We missed the all-time record just by 0.3%. But bookings actually in the quarter were even better. They accelerated kind of late in the quarter, September-October time frame. Bookings have been up 30% since June, for example, booked revenue on the back of volume and fares. Some of this, of course, helped by seasonality, late 3Q, 4Q is very, very strong seasonally and then our summer peak in January. But some examples, group's revenue.

麥克，所以第三季的飛行收入相當不錯。我們僅落後歷史記錄 0.3%。但本季的實際預訂量甚至更好。他們在本季末，即 9 月至 10 月的時間範圍內加速了成長。例如，自 6 月以來，預訂量增加了 30%，預訂量和票價帶來的收入。當然，這在一定程度上得益於季節性，第三季末、第四季的季節性非常非常強，然後是一月份的夏季高峰。但一些例子，集團的收入。

Group's revenue is 3x higher than 2019. We're just seeing a huge increase in conventions, in corporate events, in trainings. That's something that what we hear from our corporate customers is going to continue. Corporate volumes, 100% in terms of volume, much higher in terms of revenue, but we had weeks with 100% corporate volume recovery. And we set 5 corporate all-time record fares, records in September and October. Just a ton of events happening around the country. We had Formula One last week. I'm a Swifty, so Taylor Swift is here next week, and you know what she can do to the economy.

集團的收入比 2019 年高出 3 倍。我們看到會議、企業活動和培訓數量大幅增加。我們從企業客戶那裡聽到的這種情況將會持續下去。企業銷量，就銷量而言，100%，就收入而言，要高得多，但我們有幾週的時間，企業銷量恢復了 100%。我們也創下了 5 項公司歷史票價紀錄，分別是 9 月和 10 月的紀錄。全國各地正在發生大量事件。上週我們參加了一級方程式比賽。我是斯威夫特，所以泰勒絲下週就在這裡，你知道她能為經濟做些什麼。

How did you get tickets?

你是怎麼拿到票的？

No, no tickets. Too hard. Too difficult. But overall, international doing very well, especially Europe. And our -- and one international metric that's really interesting is that of our international unit revenue growth, which is up like 60% above 2019, business class is up BRL 0.20 a versus economy is up only BRL 0.10. And so we're seeing some pretty good premium traffic as well. So -- and combining this with capacity discipline -- and our network is different, right? Our network is more exposed to the Brazil that grows to the Brazil that still has a lot of growth ahead of it, whether it's agro, whether it's infrastructure, our network is significantly more exposed to the part of Brazil that's not just Sao Paulo or Rio or Brasilia.

不，沒有門票。太難。太難了。但整體而言，國際表現非常好，尤其是歐洲。我們的一項國際指標非常有趣，那就是我們的國際單位收入成長，比 2019 年成長了約 60%，商務艙成長了 0.20 雷亞爾，而經濟艙僅成長了 0.10 雷亞爾。因此，我們也看到了一些相當不錯的優質流量。那麼，將其與容量規則結合，我們的網路就會有所不同，對吧？我們的網絡更多地接觸到正在增長的巴西，無論是農業，還是基礎設施，我們的網絡更多地接觸到巴西的部分地區，而不僅僅是聖保羅或裡約。或巴西利亞。

So the trends have been accelerating through 2Q and into 3Q. So it feels pretty good from what we can see. December is ahead of last year. January is ahead of last year as well.

因此，從第二季度到第三季度，這一趨勢一直在加速。所以從我們所看到的來看，感覺非常好。 12 月比去年提早。一月也比去年提早。

That's great. That's great. That's super helpful. And then just my second question. You fly the Airbus A320s, the NEOs, I believe you used the LEAP engine, so you don't have to deal with the GTF, although, John, you did mention that it seems like power plants are coming off wings sooner no matter what the engine is. What about -- just on your E2s, we know that the GTF is potentially an issue with E2s and A220s, a couple of carriers are saying they're waiting to hear from Pratt. What has the manufacturer said to you about the E2s? Do you have any grounded right now, for example? Anything on kind of the engines, et cetera?

那太棒了。那太棒了。這非常有幫助。然後是我的第二個問題。你駕駛空中巴士 A320、NEO，我相信你使用了 LEAP 發動機，所以你不必處理 GTF，儘管約翰，你確實提到，無論如何，發電廠似乎都會更快地脫離翅膀發動機是。就您的 E2 而言，我們知道 GTF 可能是 E2 和 A220 的問題，一些運營商表示他們正在等待 Pratt 的答案。關於 E2，製造商對您說了些什麼？例如，你現在有接地嗎？有關於引擎等方面的資訊嗎？

Yes. Good news, Mike, is we've got no aircraft grounded on the E2 right now. I had a call with the President of Pratt over the weekend, and we're monitoring it very closely. Good news is there's not as many E2 customers in the world. And so I think we -- you just need to get in front of it. You need to make sure you have the proper spare ratio. We're a very important customer to Embraer and Pratt & Whitney, and our business model is based on the E2, right?

是的。麥克，好消息是我們目前 E2 上沒有停飛的飛機。週末我與普拉特總裁通了電話，我們正在密切關注此事。好消息是世界上 E2 客戶不多。所以我認為我們——你只需要走在前面。您需要確保有適當的備用比率。我們是巴西航空工業公司和普惠公司非常重要的客戶，我們的商業模式是基於 E2 的，對嗎？

And so I think that that's kind of crucial and it's constant dialogue to make sure that the spares are there, the deliveries are coming. And so it's not perfect. We understand that. Nobody wants to be where we are today. But I think we have a good relationship, and we're working very closely with Pratt and Embraer to ensure that we keep that fleet flying. And we're doubling that fleet in the next 12 months, right? And so that's a kind of a key driver for us.

因此，我認為這一點至關重要，需要不斷進行對話，以確保備件到位、交貨及時。所以它並不完美。我們明白這一點。沒有人願意成為我們今天的樣子。但我認為我們有著良好的關係，並且我們正在與普拉特和巴西航空工業公司密切合作，以確保我們保持機隊的飛行。我們將在未來 12 個月內將機隊數量增加一倍，對吧？所以這對我們來說是一個關鍵驅動因素。

The next question now will come from Savi Syth, a sell-side analyst from Raymond James.

現在的下一個問題將來自雷蒙德詹姆斯 (Raymond James) 的賣方分析師薩維賽斯 (Savi Syth)。

This is [Zara] on behalf of Savi Syth. Our first question today is, I know you provided early thoughts on 2024 capacity. How do you see that split between domestic and international?

我是 [Zara] 代表 Savi Syth。我們今天的第一個問題是，我知道您提供了有關 2024 年產能的早期想法。您如何看待國內和國際之間的分歧？

Yes, [Zara]. It's -- so our international network is going to be -- you can take what we flew in the last quarter, which is public, our public capacity data, and it's just going to be year rounded. So there will be some growth, but it's basically the network we're flying today year round. And the domestic network is going to be just the deliveries of the E2s upgauging from what we have today. So overall capacity growth around 10%, 11%. International is going to be kind of mid-single digits, if you will, just coming around, and the rest of it domestic.

是的，[扎拉]。我們的國際網路將是這樣的——你可以拿我們上個季度的飛行數據，這是公開的，我們的公共運力數據，而且它將是全年的。所以會有一些成長，但這基本上是我們今天全年飛行的網路。國內網路將只是 E2 的交付，比我們今天擁有的網路有所升級。所以整體產能成長在10%、11%左右。如果你願意的話，國際業務將達到中等個位數，而其餘部分則為國內業務。

Okay. Super helpful. And how is demand evolving in the Brazil U.S. and Brazil Europe markets?

好的。超有幫助。巴西美國和巴西歐洲市場的需求如何改變？

Yes, Europe has been strong for everybody. You heard that from the guys in the U.S. as well. It's been a very, very strong European summer. We fly to the 2 largest European markets, Portugal and Paris. So pretty resilient demand, even through the unseasonal sort of winter. U.S. is a little bit more up and down, but it's looking very good right now for December, January. If you look at U.S. Brazil capacity, it's still only 85% of what it was in 2019. And so you still have capacity shortages in U.S. Brazil. U.S. -- Brazil Europe is around 90%, 95% recovered, so -- but good demand. But overall, we're very happy with international and how it's performing.

是的，歐洲對每個人都很強大。你也從美國的人那裡聽到了這一點。這是歐洲一個非常非常強勁的夏天。我們飛往歐洲兩個最大的市場：葡萄牙和巴黎。即使在非季節性的冬季，需求也相當有彈性。美國的情況有點起起落落，但目前 12 月和 1 月的情況看起來非常好。如果你看看美國巴西的產能，它仍然只有 2019 年的 85%。因此，美國巴西的產能仍然短缺。美國、巴西、歐洲的恢復率約為 90%，其中 95% 已恢復，因此需求良好。但總的來說，我們對國際版及其表現非常滿意。

Yes, Abhi, if I could just add, interesting about our network. We fly to the U.S. from Manaus, Belem, Confins, Recife and Campinas. And many of those routes are relatively new and developing, and that kind of shows the strength of our network in the north of Brazil, the northeast of Brazil at our second main hub in Minas Gerais. And so there's -- we have 5 different points of entry from Brazil into the United States.

是的，Abhi，如果我可以補充一下，我們的網路很有趣。我們從馬瑙斯、貝倫、康芬斯、累西腓和坎皮納斯飛往美國。其中許多航線相對較新且正在開發中，這顯示了我們在巴西北部、巴西東北部米納斯吉拉斯州第二個主要樞紐的網路實力。因此，我們有 5 個不同的從巴西進入美國的入境點。

The next question will come from Daniel McKenzie, a sell-side analyst from Seaport Global.

下一個問題將來自 Seaport Global 的賣方分析師 Daniel McKenzie。

Yes, he typed his question. So maybe he's not on the phone.

是的，他輸入了他的問題。所以也許他沒有打電話。

Sorry about that. Maybe just a couple of questions here. Just going back to the BRL 6.3 billion in EBITDA for 2024, that outlook. What -- first of all, just some expectations around that. First, is there any unusual working capital considerations for next year that we should be aware of? Or will that EBITDA translate fairly accurately to cash from operations?

對於那個很抱歉。也許這裡只是幾個問題。回到 2024 年 63 億雷亞爾的 EBITDA，這一前景。首先，只是對此的一些期望。首先，明年的營運資金有什麼我們應該注意的不尋常的考慮因素嗎？或者 EBITDA 會相當準確地轉化為營運現金嗎？

And then just related to that, if you could help us unpack 2024 CapEx on a gross net cash basis? And then just kind of tying back to this idea of slower economic growth, what rate of slower economic growth might worry you with respect to the outlook that we see today?

與此相關的是，您是否可以幫助我們以總淨現金為基礎分析 2024 年資本支出？然後，回到經濟成長放緩的想法，對於我們今天看到的前景，經濟成長放緩的速度可能會讓你擔心什麼？

Dan, I'm going to start and then Alex will give you the details. But I think what I want to highlight is this third quarter shows what Azul is capable of, right? Record revenue, record EBITDA, margins above 2019, we did BRL 1.6 billion of EBITDA in the third quarter, right? Next year, we will have roughly 15 more E2s in the fleet because we're getting some at the end of this year. And so that gives you an idea of what this airline is capable of producing in terms of EBITDA on a go-forward basis.

丹，我要開始了，然後亞歷克斯會給你詳細資料。但我想我想強調的是第三季度展示了 Azul 的能力，對嗎？創紀錄的收入，創紀錄的 EBITDA，利潤率高於 2019 年，我們第三季的 EBITDA 達到了 16 億雷亞爾，對嗎？明年，我們的機隊中將增加約 15 架 E2，因為我們將在今年年底獲得一些。這樣您就可以了解這家航空公司在未來的 EBITDA 方面的生產能力。

This year, we didn't have the full effect of Congonhas. We didn't have a full effect of the E2s. We didn't have the full effect of kind of leveraging our loyalty program because of the crisis we were in. And so again, take a look at this third quarter and start to look at, wow, what is Azul capable of as you roll this forward into 2024 with all the other good things that we're working on.

今年，我們沒有充分發揮孔戈尼亞斯的影響力。我們沒有充分發揮 E2 的效果。由於我們所處的危機，我們沒有充分利用我們的忠誠度計劃。所以，再一次，看看第三季度，開始看看，哇，當你滾動時，Azul 有什麼能力與我們正在努力的所有其他美好事物一起推進到2024 年。

As I've said several times, this management team is now focused on running the business. This third quarter, we showed once again 2 quarters in a row, we have the lowest CASK in the country. That's with flying ATRs, E-Jets and A320s, right? And so this company is capable of much, much more and kind of look at where we're at today. And I'll let Alex kind of walk through the details on the cash for next year.

正如我多次說過的，這個管理團隊現在專注於經營業務。今年第三季度，我們再次連續兩個季度表現出全國最低的CASK。這包括飛行 ATR、E-Jet 和 A320，對吧？因此，這家公司有能力做更多、更多的事情來審視我們今天的處境。我會讓亞歷克斯詳細介紹一下明年的現金細節。

Yes. Thanks, John. So then there is a little bit of working capital help, yes, because as we grow, we will be selling an airline that's bigger than the airline that we're flying, right? So throughout these years where we're having the rate of growth that we are guiding to, you can expect that the cash inflow from operations should be a little bit higher than the EBITDA, right, whatever the EBITDA number is and we updated our EBITDA guidance for '24 as you saw.

是的。謝謝，約翰。那麼，就會有一點營運資金幫助，是的，因為隨著我們的成長，我們將出售一家比我們所經營的航空公司更大的航空公司，對吧？因此，在這些年中，我們按照我們所指導的成長率，您可以預期營運現金流入應該略高於 EBITDA，對吧，無論 EBITDA 數字是多少，我們更新了 EBITDA如您所見，'24 的指導。

In terms of CapEx, we haven't given guidance on CapEx. So I can't give you a number. Conceptually speaking, you can see -- you can kind of revert back to all of the concept of the capital plan that we put out, what the objective of that was, right, was to -- the CapEx and the leases were primarily the target of us trying to reduce it out and exchange it for a 2030 bullet note and an equity structure, right? So you will see the effects in CapEx from that restructuring plan.

在資本支出方面，我們尚未給予資本支出指導。所以我不能給你一個數字。從概念上講，你可以看到——你可以回到我們提出的資本計劃的所有概念，其目標是——資本支出和租賃是主要目標我們中的一些人試圖將其減少並用2030 年項目符號和股權結構來交換，對嗎？因此，您將看到該重組計劃對資本支出的影響。

But we're in the middle of our budget right now. Normally, we don't put out 2024 guidance until we finalize the budget. We're very excited about what we're seeing here on the demand side. So we went ahead and put out 2024 guidance. We may provide additional details as we finalize our 2024 plan.

但我們現在正處於預算的中間。通常，在最終確定預算之前，我們不會發布 2024 年指引。我們對在需求方面看到的情況感到非常興奮。因此，我們繼續發布了 2024 年指導方針。在最終確定 2024 年計劃時，我們可能會提供更多詳細資訊。

Yes, very good. Final question here, I guess, my last question. I'm wondering if you just expand a little bit on the cargo operation. To what extent is it profitable, either more or less profitable relative to the core airline?

是的，很好。最後一個問題，我想，我的最後一個問題。我想知道你們是否只是擴大一點貨運業務。它的獲利程度如何，相對於核心航空公司的獲利是多還是少？

Dan, we like to have a balance of about 80% cargo in the belly, 20% cargo on the dedicated aircraft. As you can imagine, the belly cargo is extremely profitable because you're piggybacking on the airline itself, crew cost, fuel, navigation, all that kind of stuff, right? The dedicated margins are not as profitable as the belly, but they are important to complement your product offering, heavy palletized cargo, industrial customers, even manufacturing customers. So we like to have that 80-20 mix. We think it's good risk management overall and kind of yield good margins overall. But the belly part is definitely extremely profitable, given the fact that you're piggybacking on our 900,000 flights a day.

Dan，我們希望 80% 左右的貨物在機腹中，20% 的貨物在專用飛機上。正如你可以想像的那樣，機腹貨物的利潤非常豐厚，因為你可以利用航空公司本身、機組人員成本、燃油、導航等所有費用，對吧？專用利潤的利潤不如機腹利潤，但它們對於補充您的產品供應、重型托盤貨物、工業客戶，甚至製造業客戶非常重要。所以我們喜歡 80-20 的混合。我們認為，總體而言，這是良好的風險管理，並且總體上產生了良好的利潤率。但考慮到您每天搭乘我們 90 萬趟航班，機腹部分絕對是極為有利可圖的。

We will now close the Q&A session. And we'll give the floor to John to make the final remarks.

我們現在將結束問答環節。我們將請約翰發表最後演說。

I want to thank everybody, and we'll be communicating to the market shortly once we have our audited financials out there. I want to thank everybody for all the hard work. Look forward to seeing everybody at conferences. Feel free to reach out to any of our management team, and thanks for all your support.

我要感謝大家，一旦我們有了經過審計的財務數據，我們很快就會與市場溝通。我要感謝大家的辛勤工作。期待在會議上見到大家。請隨時聯繫我們的任何管理團隊，並感謝您的支持。

Thank you. This concludes the Azul audio conference call for today. Thank you very much for your participation, and have a good day.

謝謝。今天的 Azul 音訊電話會議到此結束。非常感謝您的參與，祝您有美好的一天。