日月光投資控股 (ASX) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello. I am Ken Hsiang, the Head of Investor Relations for ASE Technology Holdings. Welcome to our first-quarter 2024 earnings release. Thank you for attending today. Please refer to our safe harbor notice on page 2. (Operator Instructions) I would like to remind everyone that the presentation that follows may contain forward looking statements. These forward-looking statements are subject to a high degree of risk and our actual results may differ materially.

你好。我是日月光科技控股有限公司投資者關係主管 Ken Hsiang。歡迎閱讀我們 2024 年第一季的財報。感謝大家今天的出席。請參閱第 2 頁的安全港通知。（操作員指示）我想提醒大家，接下來的演示可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述具有高度風險，我們的實際結果可能有重大差異。

For the purposes of this presentation, dollar figures are generally stated in new Taiwan dollars unless otherwise indicated. As a Taiwan-based company, our financial information as presented in accordance with Taiwan IFRS. Results presented using Taiwan IFRS may differ materially from results using other accounting standards, including those presented by our subsidiary using Chinese GAAP.

為了本報告的目的，除非另有說明，美元數字通常以新台幣表示。作為一家台灣公司，我們的財務資訊依照台灣國際財務報告準則呈現。採用台灣 IFRS 所呈現的結果可能與採用其他會計準則的結果有重大差異，包括我們的子公司採用中國 GAAP 所呈現的結果。

I am joined today by Joseph Tung, our CFO. For today's presentation, I will first go over the financial results and give the company guidance. Joseph will then be available to take your questions during the Q&A session that follows. During the Q&A session each caller will be limited to two questions at a time but may return to the queue for further questions.

今天與我一起出席的還有我們的財務長 Joseph Tung。在今天的演講中，我將首先介紹財務結果並提供公司指導。在接下來的問答環節中，約瑟夫將回答您的問題。在問答環節，每個來電者每次只能提出兩個問題，但可以返回佇列繼續提問。

With that, let's get started. As per our expectations, the overall demand environment for our services during the first quarter fell on a sequential quarterly basis, primarily due to seasonality of electronics products. And as was the case at the end of 2023, higher and leading-edge services generally fared better than legacy services. For our ATM business, revenues were on the higher end of our expectations. During the quarter, key equipment utilization rates were still relatively low, averaging out around 60%. Certain devices initiated a short but unsustained inventory refresh, easing off initially more optimistic outlook.

有了它，我們開始吧。正如我們的預期，第一季我們服務的整體需求環境環比下降，這主要是由於電子產品的季節性。正如 2023 年底的情況一樣，更高級、更前沿的服務通常比傳統服務表現更好。對於我們的 ATM 業務而言，收入高於我們的預期。本季，主要設備利用率仍相對較低，平均約60%。某些設備引發了短暫但不持續的庫存更新，削弱了最初較為樂觀的前景。

For our EMS business in the first quarter, demand for our services was slightly ahead of our initial expectations as a result of improving customer inventory levels. Please turn to page 3, where you will find our first quarter consolidated results.

對於我們第一季的 EMS 業務而言，由於客戶庫存水準提高，對我們服務的需求略微超出了我們最初的預期。請翻到第 3 頁，您將看到我們的第一季綜合業績。

For the first quarter, we recorded fully diluted EPS of TWD1.28 and basic EPS of TWD1.32. Consolidated net revenues declined 17% sequentially but increased 1% year over year. We had a gross profit of TWD20.9 billion with a gross margin of 15.7%. Our gross margin declined by 0.3 percentage points sequentially but increased by 0.9 percentage points year over year. The sequential decline in margins is principally due to lower revenues due to seasonality of both our ATM and EMS businesses.

第一季度，我們記錄的全面攤薄每股收益為 1.28 新台幣，基本每股收益為 1.32 新台幣。合併淨收入季減 17%，但年增 1%。毛利為209億新台幣，毛利率為15.7%。我們的毛利率比上一季下降了0.3個百分點，但比去年同期增加了0.9個百分點。利潤率連續下降主要是由於 ATM 和 EMS 業務的季節性影響導致收入下降。

The annual improvement in gross margin is principally the result of foreign exchange. Our operating expenses declined by TWD0.6 billion sequentially but increased by TWD1.7 billion annually. The sequential decrease in operating expenses are primarily due to lower compensation expenses. The year-over-year increase in operating expenses is primarily attributable to R&D staff up, overseas expansion, start-up costs, and higher incentive stock option expenses.

毛利率的逐年提高主要得益於外匯的影響。我們的營業費用比上一季減少了6億新台幣，但比去年同期增加了17億新台幣。營業費用較上月下降主要因為薪資費用降低。營業費用年增主要歸因於研發人員增加、海外擴張、啟動成本以及更高的激勵性股票選擇權費用。

Our operating expense percentage increased 1.3 percentage points sequentially and 1.1 percentage points year-over-year to 10%. The sequential operating expense percentage increase was primarily related to lower operating leverage during our seasonally down quarter. The annual increase was related to higher R&D staff up, overseas expansion, and higher incentive stock option and bonus expenses. Operating profit was TWD7.5 billion, down TWD4.3 billion sequentially and down TWD0.2 billion year over year.

我們的營業費用百分比比上一季增加 1.3 個百分點，比去年同期增加 1.1 個百分點，達到 10%。連續的營業費用百分比增加主要與我們季節性下滑季度的營業槓桿率下降有關。年度成長與研發人員增加、海外擴張以及激勵性股票選擇權和獎金支出增加有關。營業利潤為75億新台幣，比上一季減少43億新台幣，比去年同期減少2億新台幣。

Operating margin declined 1.7 percentage points sequentially and declined 0.2 percentage points year over year. During the quarter, we had a net non-operating gain of TWD0.4 billion. Our non-operating gain for the quarter primarily consists of net foreign exchange hedging activities, profits from associates, and other non-operating income, offset in part by net interest expense of TWD1.1 billion. Tax expense for the quarter was TWD 1.9 billion. Our effective tax rate for the quarter was 24%.

營業利潤率較上一季下降1.7個百分點，較去年同期下降0.2個百分點。本季度，我們的營業外淨收益為4億新台幣。本季我們的非營業收益主要包括淨外匯對沖活動、來自聯營公司的利潤和其他非營業收入，部分被 11 億新台幣的淨利息支出所抵銷。本季稅金支出為19億新台幣。我們本季的有效稅率為 24%。

Income tax expense was higher than anticipated, mainly from a tax basis gain realized due to the US dollar's appreciation against the Korean won. Such tax expense may reverse itself when the US dollar depreciates against the Korean won. Net income for the quarter was TWD5.7 billion, representing a decline of TWD3.7 billion sequentially and a decline of TWD0.1 billion year over year.

所得稅費用高於預期，主要由於美元兌韓元升值而實現的稅基收益。當美元兌韓元貶值時，這種稅費可能會逆轉。本季淨利為57億新台幣，較上一季減少37億新台幣，較去年同期減少1億新台幣。

The NT dollar appreciated 2% against the US dollar sequentially during the first quarter, while depreciating 2.96% annually. From a sequential perspective, we estimate the NT dollar appreciation had a 0.55 percentage point negative impact to the company's gross and operating margins. While from an annual perspective, we estimate the NT dollar depreciation had a 0.86 percentage point positive impact to the company's gross and operating margins.

第一季度，新台幣兌美元較上季升值2%，年比則貶值2.96%。從環比角度來看，我們估計新台幣升值對公司的毛利率和營業利潤率產生了 0.55 個百分點的負面影響。而從年度角度來看，我們估計新台幣貶值對公司的毛利率和營業利潤率產生了 0.86 個百分點的正面影響。

On the bottom of the page, we provide key P&L line items without the inclusion of PPA-related expenses. Consolidated gross profit, excluding PPA expenses, would be TWD21.8 billion with a 16.4% gross margin. Operating profit would be TWD8.7 billion with an operating margin of 6.5%. Net profit would be TWD6.8 billion with a net margin of 5.1%. Basic EPS excluding PPA expenses would be TWD1.58.

在頁面底部，我們提供了不包括 PPA 相關費用的關鍵損益項目。扣除電力購買協議（PPA）費用後的綜合毛利為218億新台幣，毛利率為16.4%。營業利益為87億新台幣，營業利益率為6.5%。淨利為68億新台幣，淨利率為5.1%。扣除電力購買協議 (PPA) 費用後的基本每股收益為 1.58 台幣。

On page 4 is a graphical representation of our consolidated financial performance. on page 5 is our ATM P&L. The ATM revenue reported here contains revenues eliminated at the holding company level related to intercompany transactions between our ATM and EMS businesses.

第 4 頁是我們的綜合財務表現的圖表。第 5 頁是我們的 ATM 損益表。此處報告的 ATM 收入包含與我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務之間的公司間交易相關的控股公司層級消除的收入。

For the first quarter of 2024, revenues for our ATM businesses were TWD73.9 billion, down TWD8.1 billion from the previous quarter and up TWD0.6 billion from the same period last year. This represents a 10% decline sequentially and a 1% increase annually.

2024年第一季，本公司ATM業務營收為739億新台幣，較上一季減少81億新台幣，較去年同期增加6億新台幣。這意味著環比下降 10%，比去年同期增加 1%。

Gross profit for our ATM business was TWD15.6 billion, down TWD3.7 billion sequentially and up TWD0.8 billion year over year. Gross profit margin for our ATM business was 21%, down 2.4 percentage points sequentially and up 0.9 percentage points year over year. The sequential margin decline was primarily the result of lower revenues due to typical seasonality. The annual margin improvement is primarily the result of foreign exchange, offset in part by higher utility costs.

ATM 業務毛利為 156 億新台幣，比上一季減少 37 億新台幣，比去年同期增加 8 億新台幣。ATM 業務毛利率為 21%，季減 2.4 個百分點，較去年同期成長 0.9 個百分點。利潤率環比下降主要是由於季節性因素導致收入下降。年度利潤率的提高主要得益於外匯，但被公用事業成本的提高部分抵消。

During the first quarter, operating expenses were TWD9.5 billion, down TWD0.5 billion sequentially, while up TWD1.2 billion year over year. The sequential decline in operating expenses was primarily driven by lower compensation expenses. The annual operating expense increase was driven primarily by scale-up of R&D labor related to leading-edge advanced packaging and to a lesser extent, the impact of our incentive stock option and bonus programs.

第一季度，營業費用為95億新台幣，比上一季減少5億新台幣，比去年同期增加12億新台幣。營業費用較上月下降主要因為薪資費用下降。年度營運費用的成長主要歸因於與尖端先進封裝相關的研發勞動力的擴大，以及在較小程度上我們的激勵性股票選擇權和獎金計畫的影響。

Our operating expense percentage for the quarter was 12.8%, up 0.6 percentage points sequentially and up 1.4 percentage points annually. The sequential operating expense percentage increased as a result of lower operating leverage during the seasonal soft quarter.

本季我們的營業費用率為 12.8%，比上一季增加 0.6 個百分點，比上年增加 1.4 個百分點。由於季節性疲軟季度的營運槓桿較低，營運費用百分比持續增加。

And noted earlier, the annual increase was due to higher compensation expenses, primarily at the R&D level. From an ongoing basis, we believe that as leading-edge advanced packaging becomes more part of our overall business. A higher concentration of R&D workforce will be required. This will lead to higher compensation expenses within our operating expenses on an absolute basis. However, from a current operating expense percentage perspective, these R&D expenses are ramping ahead of the leading-edge advanced packaging revenues they are to generate in future quarters.

並且之前已經提到過，年度成長是由於更高的薪酬支出，主要是在研發層面。從持續發展的角度來看，我們相信尖端封裝將成為我們整體業務的重要組成部分。需要更高程度集中的研發人員。這將導致我們的營業費用中的薪酬費用絕對值增加。然而，從目前營運費用百分比來看，這些研發費用的成長速度超過了未來幾季將產生的尖端封裝收入。

During the first quarter, operating profit was TWD6.1 billion, representing a decline of TWD3.1 billion quarter over quarter and a decline of TWD0.3 billion year over year. Operating margin was 8.2%, declining 3 percentage points sequentially and declining 0.5 percentage points year over year. For foreign exchange, we estimate that the NT to US dollar exchange rate had a negative 0.97 percentage point impact on our ATM sequential margins and a positive 1.49 percentage point impact on a year-over-year basis. Without the impact of PPA-related depreciation and amortization, ATM gross profit margin would be 22.2% and operating profit margin would be 9.7%.

第一季營業利潤為新台幣61億元，較上季減少31億元，較去年同期減少3億元。營業利益率為8.2%，較上一季下降3個百分點，較去年同期下降0.5個百分點。對於外匯，我們估計新台幣兌美元的匯率對我們的 ATM 連續利潤率產生了負面 0.97 個百分點的影響，對去年同期產生了正面 1.49 個百分點的影響。若不考慮PPA相關折舊及攤銷的影響，ATM毛利率為22.2%，營業利益率為9.7%。

On page 6, you'll find a graphical representation of our ATM P&L. On page 7 is our ATM revenue by the 3C market segments. Our communications applications shifted 1 percentage point to our computing segment. This shows that applications generally declined together during the seasonally down quarter. On page 8, you will find our ATM revenue by service type.

在第 6 頁，您將看到我們的 ATM 損益表的圖形表示。第 7 頁是我們按 3C 市場細分的 ATM 收入。我們的通訊應用將 1 個百分點轉移到了計算領域。這顯示在季節性低迷的季度裡，申請數量普遍一起下降。在第 8 頁，您將看到我們按服務類型劃分的 ATM 收入。

On a quarter-over-quarter perspective, our revenues didn't change significantly with a slight shift in percentage share between others and traditional advanced packaging. However, from a year-over-year perspective, there has been a more pronounced shift towards higher-end packaging for both traditional and leading edge. It is worth noting that our stated goal of doubling leading-edge advanced packaging revenues in the current year is tracking somewhat ahead of target.

從季度環比來看，我們的收入並沒有顯著變化，其他產品和傳統先進封裝之間的百分比份額略有變化。然而，從同比來看，傳統和前沿包裝都呈現出更明顯的向高端包裝轉變的趨勢。值得注意的是，我們今年提出的使尖端先進封裝收入翻倍的目標，已經略微提前完成了。

On page 9, you can see the first quarter results of our EMS business. Our EMS revenues came in a bit ahead of where we expected, mainly as a result of higher-than-expected customer restocking and an improving customer inventory environment. During the quarter, EMS revenues were TWD59.4 billion, declining TWD19.8 billion or 25% sequentially and improving TWD1.6 billion or 3% year over year. The sequential revenue decline is primarily attributable to typical seasonality for EMS business, while the year-over-year revenue improvement is due to higher customer restocking.

在第 9 頁，您可以看到我們的 EMS 業務第一季的業績。我們的 EMS 收入略高於我們的預期，這主要是由於客戶補貨量高於預期以及客戶庫存環境改善。本季度，EMS營收為594億新台幣，較上一季減少198億新台幣或25%，比去年同期增加16億新台幣或3%。營收季減主要歸因於 EMS 業務的典型季節性，而營收年減則歸因於客戶補貨增加。

Sequentially, our EMS businesses gross margin improved 0.9 percentage points to 9.3%. This change was principally the result of product mix. Operating expenses within our EMS business stayed roughly flat with the first quarter at TWD3.8 billion, declining TWD0.1 billion sequentially. Our first quarter operating expense percentage increased 1.6 percentage points sequentially and 0.9 percentage points to 6.5%. The higher operating expense percentage was primarily driven by lower operating leverage while incurring higher global expansion costs.

我們的EMS業務毛利率季增0.9個百分點，達到9.3%。這項變化主要是產品結構變化的結果。我們的EMS業務營業費用與第一季基本持平，為38億新台幣，比上一季減少1億新台幣。我們第一季的營業費用百分比比上一季增加 1.6 個百分點，達到 6.5%。營業費用百分比上升主要是因為營業槓桿降低，同時全球擴張成本上升。

Operating margin for the first quarter declined 0.7 percentage points to 2.8%, which is ahead of our initial expectations, due again to product mix. Our EMS first quarter operating profit was TWD1.7 billion, down TWD1.1 billion sequentially, while up TWD0.3 billion annually. On the bottom of the page, you will find a graphical representation of our EMS revenue by application. The moves here are generally in line with the seasonality of underlying customer products. Automotive was a larger portion of segment share, driven in part by inorganic growth.

第一季營業利潤率下降 0.7 個百分點至 2.8%，高於我們最初的預期，這同樣是由於產品組合的原因。我們EMS第一季的營業利潤為17億新台幣，比上一季減少11億新台幣，比上年增加3億新台幣。在頁面底部，您將看到我們按應用程式劃分的 EMS 收入的圖形表示。這裡的舉措通常與基礎客戶產品的季節性一致。汽車佔據了較大份額，部分原因是無機成長。

On page 10, you will find key line items from our balance sheet. At the end of the first quarter, we had cash, cash equivalents and current financial assets of TWD83.5 billion, increasing TWD11.5 billion. Our total interest-bearing debt increased slightly by TWD3.6 billion to TWD195.3 billion. This increase was primarily related to the impact of the Taiwan dollar depreciating against the US dollar on our US dollar-denominated debt. Total unused credit lines amounted to TWD393.9 billion. Our EBITDA for the quarter was TWD24 billion. Our net debt to equity this quarter was down to TWD0.36.

在第 10 頁，您將看到我們資產負債表中的關鍵項目。截至第一季末，公司現金、現金等價物及流動金融資產為835億新台幣，增加115億新台幣。公司總有息債務小幅增加36億新台幣至1,953億新台幣。這一增長主要與新台幣兌美元貶值對我們的美元債務的影響有關。尚未使用的信用額度總額為3,939億新台幣。我們本季的 EBITDA 為 240 億新台幣。本季我們的淨債務與股權之比降至0.36新台幣。

On page 11, you will find our equipment capital expenditures relative to our EBITDA. Machinery and equipment capital expenditures for the first quarter, in US dollars, totaled USD228 million, of which USD109 million were used in packaging operations, USD97 million in testing operations, USD21 million in EMS operations and USD1 million in interconnect material operations and others.

在第 11 頁，您將看到我們的設備資本支出相對於我們的 EBITDA 的比例。第一季機器設備資本支出以美元計算總計2.28億美元，其中，1.09億美元用於封裝業務，9,700萬美元用於測試業務，2,100萬美元用於EMS業務，100萬美元用於互連材料業務及其他。

We continue to be excited by the prospects of AI and the incremental volumes and package requirements from these increasingly robust devices. We are continuing to see increasing adoptions across our leading-edge advanced packaging services. However, we currently are only at the beginning. We see that the foundations that are being built now will lead to new generations of low, mid, and high-end devices alike. And while AI will bring massive semiconductor volumes, step-ups in packaged level requirements, and corresponding increases in ATM revenues, the vast majority of these devices are just starting to be developed.

我們繼續對人工智慧的前景以及這些日益強大的設備的增量和封裝要求感到興奮。我們不斷看到我們的尖端封裝服務得到越來越多的採用。然而，我們目前才剛開始。我們看到，現在正在建造的基礎將會引領新一代低端、中階和高階設備的誕生。雖然人工智慧將帶來巨大的半導體產量、封裝級要求的提升以及 ATM 收入的相應增長，但絕大多數此類設備才剛開始開發。

Going forward, we believe many products may take a fresh AI angle and may create a shorter than normal refresh cycle and thus kick-start overall demand. As such, although the market recovery appears to be playing out a bit slower than previous customer forecasts, we are not looking to adjust our full year outlook. For the quarter upcoming, we still see a slightly improved demand environment for our services.

展望未來，我們相信許多產品可能會採用全新的人工智慧角度，並可能創造比正常情況更短的更新周期，從而激發整體需求。因此，儘管市場復甦似乎比先前客戶的預測慢一點，但我們並不打算調整全年前景。對於即將到來的季度，我們仍然看到我們服務的需求環境略有改善。

On the expense side of things, we are seeing some impact to our electricity rate. Tai Power, the provider of electricity to Taiwan, has increased electricity rates by 15% for us. The increase goes into effect at the beginning of the second quarter. Further, summer rates are starting in the middle of May. The combined effect, we believe will have a negative 0.8 percentage point impact to our ATM gross margin in the second quarter. Despite this, we are looking to improve our gross margin in the second quarter given an improving favorable product mix.

從費用方面來看，我們看到電價受到了一些影響。台灣的電力供應商台電為我們調漲了15%的電費。此次漲價將從第二季初開始生效。此外，夏季費率將於五月中旬開始。我們認為，綜合影響將對第二季 ATM 毛利率產生 0.8 個百分點的負影響。儘管如此，鑑於產品組合的不斷改善，我們仍希望第二季的毛利率能夠提高。

From an operating expense perspective, we still continue to staff up for R&D and incur site expansion costs. However, with revenue improvement, we will look to keep our OpEx percentage flattish or close to the current range.

從營運費用角度來看，我們仍將持續增加研發人員並承擔場地擴建成本。然而，隨著收入的提高，我們將努力保持營運支出百分比平穩或接近當前範圍。

We would like to summarize our outlook for the second quarter 2024 as follows. For our ATM business in NT dollar terms, our ATM second quarter 2024 revenue should grow by mid-single digits quarter over quarter. Our ATM second quarter gross margin should be slightly above first quarter 2024 levels. For our EMS business in NT dollar terms, our EMS second quarter 2024 revenues should be similar with the first quarter 2024. Our EMS second quarter 2024 operating margin should be slightly below first quarter 2024 levels. That is the conclusion of our prepared remarks. I would like to open the floor to questions.

我們想總結一下 2024 年第二季的展望。以新台幣計算，對於我們的 ATM 業務而言，我們的 2024 年第二季 ATM 收入應會較上季成長中個位數。我們的 ATM 第二季的毛利率應該略高於 2024 年第一季的水準。就我們的 EMS 業務（以新台幣計算）而言，我們的 2024 年第二季的 EMS 收入應該與 2024 年第一季相似。我們的 EMS 2024 年第二季的營業利潤率應該略低於 2024 年第一季的水準。這就是我們準備好的發言的結論。我想開始回答提問。

(Operator Instructions) Mr. Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan.

(操作員指示) 摩根大通 (JPMorgan) 的 Gokul Hariharan 先生。

Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. First of all, on the overall end demand outlook, Ken, you mentioned you're not really changing your outlook, which I think was 6% to 10% growth for logic semis. Could you talk within that? What are you seeing in different verticals. Last time I remember, Joseph talked about auto are potentially growing this year. Since then, we have seen some downward reductions in automotive demand. Is that still your view? And secondly, could you also comment about smartphone and communication demand given some of the concerns there. That's my first question.

嗨，下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。首先，關於整體終端需求前景，Ken，您提到您並沒有真正改變您的前景，我認為邏輯半導體的成長率為 6% 至 10%。你能在裡面談談嗎？您在不同的垂直領域中看到了什麼。我記得上次約瑟夫談到汽車今年有成長的潛力。自那時起，我們看到汽車需求下降。您仍然持這種觀點嗎？其次，考慮到存在的一些擔憂，您能否對智慧型手機和通訊需求發表評論。這是我的第一個問題。

And yes, I think with most of the sectors where we're seeing a bottoming out in second quarter, but with automotive and industrial still some lingering softness. But I think overall, I think things will digest itself and we're still in that we're not changing our view for the outlook for the whole year at this point.

是的，我認為大多數行業在第二季都已觸底，但汽車和工業行業仍然存在一些疲軟跡象。但我認為總的來說，事情會自行消化，而且我們目前仍不會改變對全年前景的看法。

Yes, I think most of the sectors we're seeing are bottoming out in second quarter, but with automotive and maybe industrial still with some lingering softness. But I think, overall, I think things might digest itself, and we're not changing our view for the outlook for the whole year at this point.

是的，我認為我們看到的大多數行業都在第二季度觸底，但汽車和工業行業可能仍然存在一些疲軟。但我認為，總的來說，事情可能會自行消化，目前我們不會改變對全年前景的看法。

So you still think Joseph that automotive will be growing this year for you?

那麼，約瑟夫，您仍然認為今年汽車產業將會成長嗎？

Yes. We're still gaining market share on automotive. In fact, we are making quite a bit of progress in moving that part of the business up.

是的。我們在汽車領域的市佔率仍在不斷擴大。事實上，我們在推動該部分業務發展方面取得了相當大的進展。

Understood. Okay. My second question is on your advanced packaging, the advanced packaging related to AI that Ken mentioned is tracking ahead of plans to double this year. Could you talk a little bit about some kind of longer-term view, like how do you see this business evolve? Is it going to get to 15%, 20% of revenues in the next three, four years? Your key partner, TSMC also raised their expectations on AI-related growth. So just wanted to pick your brains on that.

明白了。好的。我的第二個問題是關於你們的先進封裝，Ken提到的與AI相關的先進封裝正在提前規劃，今年將會翻一番。您能否談談一些長期觀點，例如您如何看待這項業務的發展？未來三四年內，它會達到收入的 15% 到 20% 嗎？您的主要合作夥伴台積電也提高了對人工智慧相關成長的預期。所以只是想就此徵求一下你們的意見。

And also related to that, now that you're doing some of the packaging for this lead GPU customer, do you stand a chance to start winning some test business also for them? I think previously you didn't have much testing, whether it is final test or system-level test. Is there a chance that you could start winning some test business with them as well in the upcoming product migration?

另外與此相關的是，既然您正在為這家領先的 GPU 客戶進行一些包裝，您是否有機會為他們贏得一些測試業務？我認為以前你沒有進行太多的測試，無論是最終測試還是系統級測試。在即將到來的產品遷移中，您是否有機會開始與他們一起贏得一些測試業務？

Yes, I think we still see very, very good growth momentum in the AI-related or the leading-edge, both to packaging and test. And we're ahead of our schedule for this year, and we're expecting a continuous strong growth over the next year as well.

是的，我認為我們仍然看到人工智慧相關或前沿領域（包括封裝和測試）非常非常好的成長勢頭。我們今年的計劃已經提前完成，並且預計明年仍將持續強勁成長。

In terms of test, I think overall speaking, we are increasing our full year CapEx by another 10%. And the bulk of the increase is in test, and we are making further investments to win not only, to raise not only our turnkey ratio, but also to penetrate more into the test-only kind of business and that of course, includes the advanced testing.

在測試方面，我認為總體而言，我們的全年資本支出將再增加 10%。大部分成長來自測試，我們正在進一步投資，不僅為了贏得勝利，提高我們的交鑰匙率，也為了更多地滲透到純測試業務中，當然，這包括先進的測試。

Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的陳查理 (Charlie Chan)。

Hi, Joseph, Ken. Good afternoon. So I have a few questions. First of all, it's also related to your advanced packaging. May I know your progress in the AI GPU testing business opportunity, especially burn-in? This seems to be a very important process. Do you think the company will gain much market share this year?

你好，約瑟夫，肯。午安.我有幾個問題。首先這也和你們的先進封裝有關。我可以了解你們在AI GPU測試商業機會的進展，尤其是老化測試嗎？這看起來是一個非常重要的過程。您認為該公司今年的市佔率會增加多少？

We are investing in test and that also includes burn-in. And we're hopeful that we will be seeing some volume by the later part of the year.

我們正在投資測試​​，其中也包括老化測試。我們希望在今年下半年能夠看到一些銷售量。

Okay, thanks, Joseph. And another one is more on the end demand and the cycle recovery. So we continue to hear that China's smartphone related semiconductor is seeing some forecast cuts, destocking. Does the company see similar trend? And do you think it's kind of short-lived? Or you think third quarter from the smartphone segment, you're also seeing very muted growth into the quarter.

好的，謝謝，約瑟夫。另外一個更多的是關於最終需求和週期復甦。因此，我們不斷聽到消息稱，中國智慧型手機相關半導體的預測正在下調，庫存正在減少。公司是否也出現了類似的趨勢？您認為這種現象會是短暫的嗎？或者您認為第三季的智慧型手機領域也會出現非常緩慢的成長。

I think overall we are still looking at the whole market and most of the sectors will be bottoming out and we're seeing steady, but kind of moderate growth in the cellphone area. And the strongest is still high-performance computing. The other areas, we're seeing gradual recovery. And coming into second half, we will see much more substantial growth momentum.

我認為，總體而言，我們仍在關注整個市場，大多數領域都將觸底，而我們看到手機領域將保持穩定但溫和的成長。而且最強的依然是高效能運算。我們看到其他地區正在逐步復甦。進入下半年，我們將看到更強勁的成長動能。

Brad Lin, BofA.

美國銀行的 Brad Lin。

Thank you for taking my question. So I have two questions. One is on the advanced packaging. So as we learned that the OSAT including probably ASE prefers non-silicon-based interposer solutions for this leading-edge advanced packaging. So when or what time does the management see faster adoption in this type of solution and contribute to ASE? Thank you.

感謝您回答我的問題。我有兩個問題。一是先進封裝。因此，我們了解到，OSAT（可能包括 ASE）對於這種尖端先進封裝更傾向於採用非矽基中介層解決方案。那麼管理層何時或什麼時間會看到此類解決方案的更快採用並為 ASE 做出貢獻？謝謝。

Well, we are in mass production at this point, and we are seeing -- we're having a lot of engagement with some other customers as well. And I can't predict the pace of it, but we certainly see very good growth potential in this area as well.

嗯，我們目前正在進行大規模生產，我們看到我們也與其他一些客戶進行了很多合作。我無法預測它的速度，但我們確實看到這一領域非常好的成長潛力。

Got it. So, for the strong growth that we just mentioned into 2025, currently, is still based on the well, silicon base solution. Can I assume that?

知道了。因此，我們剛才提到的 2025 年的強勁成長，目前仍基於完善的矽基解決方案。我可以假設嗎？

Well it can be both. I think with our solution, we'll see some pickup in next year as well --

嗯，兩者皆可。我認為，有了我們的解決方案，明年我們也會看到一些回升--

Got it. Thank you very much.

知道了。非常感謝。

As we go with the existing packaging.

我們採用現有的包裝。

Got it, thank you. And then my second question will be about the on-device AI. So what will be the increasing value addition from ASE in the on-device AI? And when do we think that growth to be meaningfully pick up in the future?

知道了，謝謝。我的第二個問題是關於裝置上的 AI。那麼 ASE 在裝置上 AI 中將帶來哪些增值呢？我們何時才會認為未來經濟成長會顯著加速？

Yeah, I think, this year we are ahead of schedule in doubling that part of the business. Next year, we still see very strong momentum going on. And not just from the business from the foundry but also we're having engagement with multiple customers including design houses, the system houses. So actually, I think there's a momentum building at this point, and we do have fairly good confidence in growing that part of business quite substantially next year as well.

是的，我認為，今年我們提前完成了這部分業務的翻倍。明年，我們仍會看到非常強勁的勢頭。我們不僅與代工廠有業務往來，也與設計公司、系統公司等多家客戶有合作。因此實際上，我認為目前的勢頭正在增強，而且我們對明年該部分業務的大幅增長也相當有信心。

Randy Abrams, UBS.

瑞銀的蘭迪艾布拉姆斯（Randy Abrams）。

Hi, thank you. I wanted to ask a follow-up on your CapEx, the 10% higher CapEx. So could you go through -- is some of that also tied to advanced packaging? I think you mentioned the test. And could you remind us, you're now -- because equipment CapEx was still fairly low in the first quarter, what's the CapEx guidance full year now for the equipment or for overall?

你好，謝謝。我想問一下你們的資本支出，也就是高出 10% 的資本支出。那麼您能否解釋一下—其中一些是否也與先進封裝有關？我覺得你有提到測試。您能否提醒我們，由於第一季的設備資本支出仍然相當低，那麼全年設備或整體的資本支出指導價是多少？

And the follow up here is, with the optimism into next year, are we starting another CapEx cycle? Like we're at a low base, but do you think directionally there could be a good increase with you noting more AI opportunities to go after?

接下來的問題是，隨著對明年的樂觀情緒，我們是否會開始新一輪的資本支出週期？就像我們處於較低的基數，但您是否認為從方向上看，隨著您注意到更多的人工智慧機會可以追逐，可能會有良好的成長？

Yeah. I think for this year, we are upping our CapEx by another 10%. We mentioned last time that this year will be a 40% to 50% growth in our CapEx, and we're upping that. I think in terms of overall CapEx, roughly 61% for packaging and 24% for tests. And for test portion of it, the percentage has been -- has increased from last quarter as well, we were budgeting about 18% now to 24%. So, we are making quite a bit of investment or expanding quite a bit of our investment in test CapEx, aiming to leverage on our turnkey services as well as trying to get more of the test only business as well. So, I think in terms of the overall CapEx roughly, I would say 50% of it will be for advanced and the other half of it will be for the maintenance and also some of the upgrades.

是的。我認為今年我們的資本支出將再增加 10%。我們上次提到，今年我們的資本支出將增加 40% 至 50%，而我們正在提高這個數字。我認為就整體資本支出而言，大約 61% 用於包裝，24% 用於測試。對於測試部分，百分比也從上一季的 18% 增加到了 24%。因此，我們在測試資本支出方面進行了相當多的投資或擴大了相當多的投資，旨在利用我們的交鑰匙服務，並試圖獲得更多的測試業務。因此，我認為就總體資本支出而言，大致而言，其中 50％ 將用於高級支出，另一半將用於維護和一些升級。

Okay. Great and thanks for the color, Joseph. I'll ask a quick follow-up on that and then the second question. For the test, could you clarify, is that application more HPC, like high-performance compute driven? And then the second question I wanted to ask on -- it looks like a few things happening on margins. So, on the gross margin, could you talk about the mix change, which you're getting some product mix change, both ATM and sounds like EMS as well. And on the OpEx side, with some more of this investment in R&D, the view for OpEx, I guess I should say OpEx growth, how much do you think the OpEx has to grow?

好的。太棒了，謝謝你的顏色，約瑟夫。我將就此問題快速詢問後續問題，然後再問第二個問題。對於測試，您能否澄清一下，該應用程式是否更具 HPC 特性，例如高效能運算驅動？然後我想問的第二個問題是——看起來邊緣上發生了一些事情。那麼，在毛利率方面，您能談談組合變化嗎？在營運支出方面，隨著對研發的投資增加，對於營運支出的看法，我想我應該說營運支出成長，您認為營運支出必須成長多少？

Well, I think testing CapEx is both for the HPC as well as other applications. And as I mentioned, we do have a lot of opportunities in reaching our overall turnkey ratio, and that includes all products. And of course, in terms of the more advanced or AI-related tests, we are also investing into that area, and we expect to have some -- making some inroads in that area as well.

嗯，我認為測試 CapEx 既適用於 HPC，也適用於其他應用程式。正如我所提到的，我們確實有很多機會實現整體交鑰匙率，其中包括所有產品。當然，就更先進或與人工智慧相關的測試而言，我們也在該領域進行了投資，我們希望在該領域取得一些進展。

What's the other part of the? Okay, gross profit margin, I think the improvement is of course, coming from revenue increase as well as our more favorable product mix as we go into -- as we grow our more leading-edge packaging and test.

另一部分是什麼？好的，毛利率，我認為改善當然來自於收入的增加以及我們進入更有利的產品組合——隨著我們發展更前沿的封裝和測試。

In terms of operating expenses, I think the increase mostly coming from our beefed-up R&D investments. And we're staffing up in R&D, putting more resources into more advanced packaging and test. And of course, we are in the process of expanding our overseas sites as well. So there will be some more additional investment put into it.

在營業費用方面，我認為成長主要來自於我們加大研發投入。我們正在增加研發人員，將更多資源投入更先進的封裝和測試中。當然，我們也正在擴大海外站點。因此將會投入一些額外的投資。

And also, in terms of compensation, we've granted our new round of employee stock options. So, we will be including that part of the expense increase as well for this year. All in all, I think for the whole year, operating expense percentage will have about 1% increase from last year or less than 1%.

另外，在薪酬方面，我們已經授予新一輪員工股票選擇權。因此，我們今年也會將這部分費用的增加計入。整體來說，我認為全年營業費用佔比會比去年有1%左右的增幅或1%以內。

Rick Hsu, Daiwa Securities.

大和證券的 Rick Hsu。

Can you guys hear me?

你們聽得到我的聲音嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

Okay. Hi, thank you for taking my question. And so the first question is a housekeeping one. Can you share with us your utilization rates across of ATM for the coming second quarter?

好的。你好，謝謝你回答我的問題。因此第一個問題是一個內部問題。您能否與我們分享未來第二季 ATM 的使用率？

We have about slightly below 60% in quarter one and quarter two with the revenue growth, we're seeing the overall utilization rate could be slightly above 60%.

隨著第一季和第二季的營收成長，我們的利用率略低於 60%，我們看到整體利用率可能略高於 60%。

Alright. The second question also about your second half. I remember last quarter, Joseph, you said your ATM gross margin will go back to your structural target, which is mid-20 to 30. Is that still viable for your second half of this year?

好吧。第二個問題也是關於你的下半場。約瑟夫，我記得上個季度您說過，您的 ATM 毛利率將回到結構性目標，即 20% 到 30% 之間。這對於今年下半年來說仍然可行嗎？

Yeah, I think from the forecast we have, we're still pretty confident that we will be reaching our structural margin in the second half of the year. And I think we have a fairly good chance that for the whole year, we'll be -- we can also reach that level.

是的，我認為從我們的預測來看，我們仍然非常有信心在今年下半年實現結構性利潤。我認為我們全年都有很大機會達到這一水平。

(Operator Instructions) Bruce Lu, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指示）高盛的 Bruce Lu。

Okay, thank you for taking my question. I want to ask about your US expansion plan. The advanced packaging business, a major chunk of it is coming from the foundry outsourcing part, on the other hand, you probably be the most important outsourcing partner for TSMC. But as TSMC mentioned during the call, that they are very happy to see Amkor is going to have another advanced packaging facility in US, which ASE doesn't really have a sizable facility there. Do you have any plan to do that? Do you see any change in terms of landscape? How you do the business with TSMC in the future?

好的，感謝您回答我的問題。我想詢問你們在美國擴張的計劃。先進封裝業務，很大一部分來自代工外包部分，另一方面，你可能是台積電最重要的外包夥伴。但正如台積電在電話會議中提到的那樣，他們很高興看到安靠將在美國建立另一個先進的封裝工廠，而日月光在那裡實際上並沒有規模可觀的工廠。你有這樣的計劃嗎？您看到景觀有什麼變化嗎？未來你們如何與台積電開展業務？

We're not precluding any possibility, but then any investment that we make needs to make economic sense. And right now, we're not sure that a greenfield operation setup in the US fits into that category. So we're monitoring the situation at this point. And I think bulk of the advanced packaging or test can still be serviced out of Taiwan and or other area locations as well.

我們不會排除任何可能性，但是我們所做的任何投資都需要具有經濟意義。而現在，我們不確定在美國設立的綠地營運機構是否屬於這個類別。因此我們目前正在監視這一情況。我認為大部分先進封裝或測試仍可在台灣或其他地區進行。

So even with government subsidy, you still don't think that's a profitable business or a good returns business?

那麼，即使有政府補貼，您仍然認為這不是一項有利可圖或回報豐厚的業務嗎？

No, I don't think it's wise to make any commercial decision based on subsidy.

不，我認為基於補貼做出任何商業決策都是不明智的。

Okay, I would tell Amkor that.

好的，我會告訴 Amkor。

I think they know that too.

我想他們也知道這一點。

Okay. The next question is for the SiP business. I mean, what do we see SiP business growth in this year and the coming years? I mean, it has been muted for quite some time already. When can we see another growth momentum for the SiP business?

好的。下一個問題是關於SiP業務的。我的意思是，我們認為今年和未來幾年 SiP 業務將會成長嗎？我的意思是，它已經被靜音很長一段時間了。我們何時才能看到 SiP 業務的另一個成長動能？

I think the SIP business for this year, we could see a flattish or a little bit down for the whole quarter because well, for the whole year, given the fact that there are less products be introduced on and there's some there are seasonalities and we are seeing in all market conditions are a little bit different from previous years. And but again, we are still quite actively engaging with customers and some of the some of the partners are they going to be mass-produced and some are earlier stage, but we do feel that come next year, see growth in our SIP business.

我認為今年的 SIP 業務，我們可能會看到整個季度持平或略有下降，因為考慮到全年推出的產品較少，而且有些是季節性的，我們我們看到的所有市場狀況與前幾年略有不同。但是，我們仍然非常積極地與客戶接觸，一些合作夥伴將進行大規模生產，一些合作夥伴仍處於早期階段，但我們確實認為明年我們的 SIP 業務將實現成長。

I think the SiP business for this year, we could see a flattish or a little bit down for the whole quarter -- for the whole year, given the fact that there are less products being introduced. And there is the seasonality, and we are seeing, market conditions are a little bit different from previous years. But we are still quite actively engaging with customers. And some of the products are going to be mass produced and some are in earlier stage. But we do feel that come next year, the growth in our SiP business will resume.

我認為，由於推出的產品較少，我們可能會看到今年 SiP 業務整個季度（全年）持平或略有下降。而且有季節性，我們發現市場狀況與前幾年略有不同。但我們仍然非常積極地與客戶互動。其中有些產品即將量產，有些則處於前期。但我們確實感覺到，明年我們的 SiP 業務將恢復成長。

Luara Chen, Citigroup.

花旗集團的 Luara Chen。

Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. Just a quick follow-up on the gross margin. Just so you mentioned that for the structural gross margin target of 25% to 30% is achievable or not just for the second half but also for the full year, is that correct?

嗨，下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。只是對毛利率進行快速追蹤。您剛才提到，25％至30％的結構性毛利率目標是可以實現的，或者不僅是下半年，而且全年都可以實現，對嗎？

Yes. I think for the second half, we will sort of reach that level. And we are trying very hard and working very hard to -- for the whole year, we're working hard to reach that level as well.

是的。我認為到了下半場，我們將會達到那個水準。我們全年都在努力嘗試、努力工作，以達到這一水平。

Thank you. Appreciate the --

謝謝。欣賞--

Bear in mind that's with the increase of our utility costs. The recent rate increase is for us, it's about 15% in electricity in Taiwan. And that will have roughly about 0.8% impact on us. So, that needs to be offset as well. So, even with that kind of increase in cost, we are still confident that in the second half, we will reach that. And we have -- we are feeling, at this point, quite comfortable that for the whole year, we should be able to reach that as well.

請記住，這是隨著我們的公用事業成本的增加而發生的。最近的電費上漲是針對我們而言的，台灣的電費上漲了約15％。這對我們的影響大約是0.8%。因此，這也需要抵消。因此，即使成本增加，我們仍然有信心在下半年實現這一目標。而且，我們目前感覺非常有信心，全年我們也應該能夠實現這一目標。

Thank you. May I understand that aside from the utilization rate improvement, do we also assuming that more mix change toward to the advanced packaging or AI-related or increasing like testing revenue, which would lead to higher gross margin?

謝謝。我可以理解，除了利用率提高之外，我們是否還假設更多的組合轉向先進封裝或人工智慧相關或增加測試收入，這將帶來更高的毛利率？

Yes, that's correct. We believe the higher advanced packaging as well as our test business will definitely help our margin.

是的，正確。我們相信更先進的封裝以及我們的測試業務肯定將有助於提高我們的利潤。

Okay. Thank you. That's very helpful.

好的。謝謝。這非常有幫助。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jason Tsang, CLSA.

Jason Tsang 的里昂證券。

You preferably mentioned that it makes sense for ASE to enter the new AP business when it is mainstream enough to reach maybe mass production stage for ASE. So is that's the case as for leading-edge service that you talked about. How should we expect the volumes or contribution for this kind of advanced packagings? Or your new business? Thank you.

您最好提到，當新的 AP 業務足夠主流，甚至可能達到量產階段時，ASE 進入該業務是有意義的。那麼，您談到的前沿服務確實如此嗎？我們應該如何預期這種先進封裝的產量或貢獻？或您的新業務？謝謝。

Are you talking about percentage of revenue?

您談論的是收入百分比嗎？

Yeah. or can you give us more colors on maybe the contributions or your outlook in the future?

是的。或者您能否向我們詳細介紹您的貢獻或對未來的展望？

Well, look, last year we have about low-single digit percentage of revenue coming from what we call the leading edge. And we are, as we pointed out last time, we expect to double that to mid-single digit. And as I pointed out that next year, we still continue to see strong momentum. But in terms of the exact percentage, we don't have -- I don't have that number yet because we're expecting not only the advanced packaging will grow. The other so-called traditional advanced packaging or tests and all the other areas will grow as AI development continues to expand.

嗯，你看，去年我們有大約個位數百分比的收入來自我們所謂的領先優勢。正如我們上次指出的那樣，我們預計這一數字將翻一番，達到個位數的中等水平。正如我指出的，明年我們仍將看到強勁的勢頭。但就確切的百分比而言，我們還沒有——我還沒有這個數字，因為我們預計不僅先進封裝會成長。隨著人工智慧發展的不斷擴大，其他所謂的傳統先進封裝或測試以及所有其他領域都將成長。

Okay, got it. So my second question in terms of your outlook in second half this year. So can we expect seasonality or hot season for end demands to sustain our growth momentum for maybe traditional packagings, flipchip or even mature testing or any kind of service or products in Q3 or Q4?

好的，明白了。我的第二個問題是關於您對今年下半年的展望。那麼，我們是否可以預期季節性或終端需求旺季將維持我們在第三季或第四季的傳統封裝、倒裝晶片甚至成熟測試或任何類型的服務或產品的成長動能？

I think Q3, Q4 or second half, we will see all kinds of -- all products to start to grow. But I think leading edge would may be above the corporate average.

我認為在第三季、第四季或下半年，我們將看到各種產品開始成長。但我認為領先優勢可能高於企業平均。

Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan。

Yeah, hi. Thanks for the follow-up opportunity. First one I wanted to explore a little bit is the partnership with the leading foundry for the advanced packaging. Could you help us understand a little bit the nature of this agreement, the arrangement? Is that something that you have visibility into the long term? And is it kind of like a strategic partnership that ASE has entered into? Or is it something that doesn't have that kind of visibility given they're also expanding their own in-house capacity as well? So I just want to understand how this partnership works over the next, let's say, three, four years.

是的，你好。感謝後續關注的機會。首先我想探討的是與先進封裝領域領先的代工廠的合作。您能否幫助我們了解該協議和安排的性質？這是您對長遠目標有預見的事情嗎？這是否有點像 ASE 達成的策略夥伴關係？還是說由於他們也在擴大自己的內部產能，所以這件事情並不具備那麼強的​​可見度？所以我只是想了解這種合作關係在未來三、四年內如何運作。

Well, obviously, we work very closely with the foundries, and we do have continuous dialogue with them and to set up a expansion plan for our own capacity. But this is something that between us and the foundry, I don't think it's proper for us to discuss what exactly the arrangement will be.

嗯，顯然，我們與代工廠密切合作，我們確實與他們保持持續對話，並製定了我們自己產能的擴張計劃。但這是我們和代工廠之間的事情，我認為我們不適合討論具體的安排。

Okay. But do you think it's something that will continue to drive the growth for the next three, four years?

好的。但您認為它會在未來三至四年繼續推動成長嗎？

Yeah, I think. We do have good visibility, but I don't want to get into the detail for it.

是的，我認為。我們確實具有良好的可視性，但我不想深入討論細節。

Okay. No worries. Thanks, Joseph. A couple of quick follow-ups, one is on pricing. Any changes you're seeing on pricing? And for the electricity tariff increase, is there any chance you are able to pass through some of these cost increases to customers?

好的。不用擔心。謝謝，約瑟夫。有幾個快速的後續問題，一個是關於定價的。您看到價格有任何變化嗎？對於電價上漲，您是否有可能將部分成本上漲轉嫁給客戶？

And also secondly, on the traditional packaging side, utilization in the early 60s definitely seems quite low. Based on your current customer forecast, any view on when we get back to like 70%, 75%? Will it happen this year, or we'll have to wait for next year to kind of get back to 70%, 75% utilization? Thank you.

其次，就傳統包裝方面而言，20 世紀 60 年代初期的使用率確實相當低。根據您目前的客戶預測，您認為何時能恢復到 70% 或 75% 左右？今年會發生嗎，還是我們必須等到明年才能恢復到 70% 或 75% 的利用率？謝謝。

Well I think going into second half, we will start to see our utilization to grow. And I think it's safe to say that we will be above 70% for second half.

我認為進入下半年，我們將開始看到我們的利用率成長。我認為可以肯定地說，下半年我們的完成率將超過 70%。

Okay.

好的。

And I think in terms of pricing, I think we're still -- I think the pricing overall pricing for us is still resilient, and there are bit of a price pressure on the legacy products. But overall, I think on average, I think our pricing still remains to be resilient. And I think overall pricing structure will be much better than past cycles.

我認為就定價而言，我認為我們仍然 - 我認為我們的整體定價仍然具有彈性，並且傳統產品面臨一定的價格壓力。但總體而言，我認為平均而言，我們的定價仍然具有彈性。我認為整體定價結構將比過去的週期好得多。

Any chance you can pass on some of this electricity tariff because it seems like it's not a one-year thing. It's actually happening every year now.

您是否可以轉嫁部分電費，因為這似乎不是一年的事。事實上，這種事情每年都會發生。

Yes. All costs are being considered. And when we further set up the proper pricing that we have. So, whether it's 100% passed out or is shared with our customers, I think we will just come up with the sort of pricing, considering all the costs that we need to bear.

是的。所有成本都在考慮之中。當我們進一步設定適當的價格時。因此，無論是 100% 分發還是與我們的客戶分享，我認為我們都會考慮到我們需要承擔的所有成本來製定定價。

Got it. Thanks Joseph. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝約瑟夫。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

There are no more questions.

沒有其它問題了。

Okay to --

好的--

I'm sorry, there is a follow-up question from Jason Tsang of CLSA.

抱歉，里昂證券的 Jason Tsang 有後續問題。

Yeah. Sorry, I have follow-up questions. I wonder if you can provide more details on your comments regarding the leading-edge service. I mean, can you provide some of the type for cutting-edge packagings, like 2.5D or 3D or chip on wafer, or substrates? What kind of the type of advanced packaging or testing can you currently enter into the mass production stage, or have the contribution right now? Thank you.

是的。抱歉，我還有一些後續問題。我想知道您是否可以就您對這項前沿服務的評論提供更多細節。我的意思是，您能否提供一些尖端封裝類型，例如 2.5D 或 3D 或晶圓上晶片或基板？什麼類型的先進封裝或測試你們目前能夠進入量產階段，或現在有所貢獻？謝謝。

Currently we have fan-out, we have 2.5D, we have OS. I think those are our focus, those are the one -- the type of packages we call leading edge.

目前我們有扇出型、有2.5D、有OS。我認為這些是我們的重點，這些是我們稱之為前沿的封裝類型。

Okay. And all of them account for, right now, its low single digit of the ATM business, right?

好的。現在，所有這些 ATM 業務的份額都只佔到個位數的低點，對嗎？

Like I said, for this year, we're expecting mid-single digit.

正如我所說，對於今年，我們預計會出現中等個位數的成長。

Okay, got it. Thank you.

好的，明白了。謝謝。

There are no more questions.

沒有其它問題了。

Okay. To sum up, I think we had a better than expected first quarter. And going into second, we are on track of things for the whole year. We're also expecting same kind of outlook that we presented last time. I think overall, this is -- all sectors are bottoming out, maybe with some different test sectors with different time, well pace or time schedule. But all in all, we are comfortable with the current situation, and we'll continue to make the necessary investments to service whatever customers' needs, including the leading edge and also on the test side, we are increasing our CapEx as well to try to win more test business. Thank you very much. We'll see you next quarter.

好的。總而言之，我認為我們的第一季表現比預期好。進入第二階段，我們全年的計畫都進展順利。我們也期待上次提出的相同觀點。我認為總體而言，所有領域都已觸底，可能有一些不同的測試領域，它們的時間、節奏或時間表都不同。但總而言之，我們對目前的情況感到滿意，我們將繼續進行必要的投資，以滿足客戶的任何需求，包括前沿技術和測試方面，我們也在增加資本支出，以嘗試贏得更多測試業務。非常感謝。我們將於下個季度見面。