日月光投資控股 (ASX) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello. I am Ken Hsiang, the Head of Investor Relations for ASE Technology Holdings. Welcome to our first-quarter 2024 earnings release. Thank you for attending today. Please refer to our safe harbor notice on page 2. (Operator Instructions) I would like to remind everyone that the presentation that follows may contain forward looking statements. These forward-looking statements are subject to a high degree of risk and our actual results may differ materially.

你好。我是日月光科技控股有限公司投資者關係主管 Ken Hsiang。歡迎閱讀我們的 2024 年第一季財報發布。感謝您今天參加。請參閱第 2 頁的安全港通知。這些前瞻性陳述面臨高度風險，我們的實際結果可能有重大差異。

For the purposes of this presentation, dollar figures are generally stated in new Taiwan dollars unless otherwise indicated. As a Taiwan-based company, our financial information as presented in accordance with Taiwan IFRS. Results presented using Taiwan IFRS may differ materially from results using other accounting standards, including those presented by our subsidiary using Chinese GAAP.

出於本演示的目的，除非另有說明，美元數字通常以新台幣表示。身為台灣公司，我們的財務資料依照台灣國際財務報告準則呈報。使用台灣國際財務報告準則所呈現的結果可能與使用其他會計準則呈現的結果有重大差異，包括我們的子公司使用中國公認會計準則呈現的結果。

I am joined today by Joseph Tung, our CFO. For today's presentation, I will first go over the financial results and give the company guidance. Joseph will then be available to take your questions during the Q&A session that follows. During the Q&A session each caller will be limited to two questions at a time but may return to the queue for further questions.

今天我們的財務長 Joseph Tung 也加入了我的行列。在今天的演講中，我將首先回顧財務表現並為公司提供指導。約瑟夫將在接下來的問答環節回答您的問題。在問答環節中，每個來電者一次只能提出兩個問題，但可以返回佇列詢問更多問題。

With that, let's get started. As per our expectations, the overall demand environment for our services during the first quarter fell on a sequential quarterly basis, primarily due to seasonality of electronics products. And as was the case at the end of 2023, higher and leading-edge services generally fared better than legacy services. For our ATM business, revenues were on the higher end of our expectations. During the quarter, key equipment utilization rates were still relatively low, averaging out around 60%. Certain devices initiated a short but unsustained inventory refresh, easing off initially more optimistic outlook.

就這樣，我們開始吧。根據我們的預期，第一季我們服務的整體需求環境較上季下降，主要是由於電子產品的季節性。與 2023 年底的情況一樣，更高級和領先的服務通常比傳統服務表現更好。對於我們的 ATM 業務，收入高於我們的預期。本季關鍵設備利用率仍較低，平均約60%。某些設備啟動了短暫但不持續的庫存刷新，緩解了最初更樂觀的前景。

For our EMS business in the first quarter, demand for our services was slightly ahead of our initial expectations as a result of improving customer inventory levels. Please turn to page 3, where you will find our first quarter consolidated results.

對於我們第一季的 EMS 業務，由於客戶庫存水準改善，對我們服務的需求略高於我們最初的預期。請翻到第 3 頁，您可以在其中找到我們第一季的綜合業績。

For the first quarter, we recorded fully diluted EPS of TWD1.28 and basic EPS of TWD1.32. Consolidated net revenues declined 17% sequentially but increased 1% year over year. We had a gross profit of TWD20.9 billion with a gross margin of 15.7%. Our gross margin declined by 0.3 percentage points sequentially but increased by 0.9 percentage points year over year. The sequential decline in margins is principally due to lower revenues due to seasonality of both our ATM and EMS businesses.

第一季度，我們錄得完全攤薄每股收益 TWD1.28，基本每股收益 TWD1.32。合併淨收入季減 17%，但年增 1%。毛利為新台幣209億元，毛利率為15.7%。毛利率季減 0.3 個百分點，但年增 0.9 個百分點。利潤率環比下降主要是由於我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務的季節性導致收入下降。

The annual improvement in gross margin is principally the result of foreign exchange. Our operating expenses declined by TWD0.6 billion sequentially but increased by TWD1.7 billion annually. The sequential decrease in operating expenses are primarily due to lower compensation expenses. The year-over-year increase in operating expenses is primarily attributable to R&D staff up, overseas expansion, start-up costs, and higher incentive stock option expenses.

毛利率的年度改善主要是外匯的結果。營業費用較上季下降 6 億新台幣，但每年增加 17 億新台幣。營業費用較上月下降主要是因為薪資費用減少。營業費用年增主要歸因於研發人員的增加、海外擴張、啟動成本以及激勵股票選擇權費用的增加。

Our operating expense percentage increased 1.3 percentage points sequentially and 1.1 percentage points year-over-year to 10%. The sequential operating expense percentage increase was primarily related to lower operating leverage during our seasonally down quarter. The annual increase was related to higher R&D staff up, overseas expansion, and higher incentive stock option and bonus expenses. Operating profit was TWD7.5 billion, down TWD4.3 billion sequentially and down TWD0.2 billion year over year.

我們的營運費用百分比季增 1.3 個百分點，年增 1.1 個百分點，達到 10%。營業費用百分比連續成長主要與季節性下滑季度的營業槓桿較低有關。年度成長與研發人員增加、海外擴張以及激勵股票選擇權和獎金費用增加有關。營業利潤為新台幣 75 億元，較上季減少 43 億元，較去年同期減少 2 億元。

Operating margin declined 1.7 percentage points sequentially and declined 0.2 percentage points year over year. During the quarter, we had a net non-operating gain of TWD0.4 billion. Our non-operating gain for the quarter primarily consists of net foreign exchange hedging activities, profits from associates, and other non-operating income, offset in part by net interest expense of TWD1.1 billion. Tax expense for the quarter was TWD 1.9 billion. Our effective tax rate for the quarter was 24%.

營業利益率較上月下降 1.7 個百分點，較去年同期下降 0.2 個百分點。本季度，我們的營業外淨收益為 4 億新台幣。本季的營業外收益主要包括淨外匯對沖活動、聯營公司利潤和其他營業外收入，部分被 11 億新台幣的淨利息支出所抵銷。該季度稅費為 19 億新台幣。我們本季的有效稅率為 24%。

Income tax expense was higher than anticipated, mainly from a tax basis gain realized due to the US dollar's appreciation against the Korean won. Such tax expense may reverse itself when the US dollar depreciates against the Korean won. Net income for the quarter was TWD5.7 billion, representing a decline of TWD3.7 billion sequentially and a decline of TWD0.1 billion year over year.

所得稅費用高於預期，主要來自美元兌韓元升值所帶來的稅基收益。當美元兌韓元貶值時，此類稅收支出可能會自行逆轉。本季淨利為新台幣 57 億，較上一季減少 37 億新台幣，比去年同期減少 1 億新台幣。

The NT dollar appreciated 2% against the US dollar sequentially during the first quarter, while depreciating 2.96% annually. From a sequential perspective, we estimate the NT dollar appreciation had a 0.55 percentage point negative impact to the company's gross and operating margins. While from an annual perspective, we estimate the NT dollar depreciation had a 0.86 percentage point positive impact to the company's gross and operating margins.

第一季新台幣兌美元匯率季增2%，年貶值2.96%。從環比來看，我們估計新台幣升值對公司毛利率和營業利潤率產生了 0.55 個百分點的負面影響。而從年度角度來看，我們估計新台幣貶值對公司的毛利率和營業利益率產生了0.86個百分點的正面影響。

On the bottom of the page, we provide key P&L line items without the inclusion of PPA-related expenses. Consolidated gross profit, excluding PPA expenses, would be TWD21.8 billion with a 16.4% gross margin. Operating profit would be TWD8.7 billion with an operating margin of 6.5%. Net profit would be TWD6.8 billion with a net margin of 5.1%. Basic EPS excluding PPA expenses would be TWD1.58.

在頁面底部，我們提供了關鍵的損益行項目，不包括與購電協議相關的費用。扣除購電協議費用後，綜合毛利為新台幣 218 億元，毛利率為 16.4%。營業利益為新台幣 87 億元，營業利益率為 6.5%。淨利潤為新台幣 68 億元，淨利潤率為 5.1%。不包括 PPA 費用的基本 EPS 為 TWD1.58。

On page 4 is a graphical representation of our consolidated financial performance. on page 5 is our ATM P&L. The ATM revenue reported here contains revenues eliminated at the holding company level related to intercompany transactions between our ATM and EMS businesses.

第 4 頁是我們綜合財務績效的圖形表示。第 5 頁是我們的 ATM 損益表。此處報告的 ATM 收入包含在控股公司層級抵消的與我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務之間的公司間交易相關的收入。

For the first quarter of 2024, revenues for our ATM businesses were TWD73.9 billion, down TWD8.1 billion from the previous quarter and up TWD0.6 billion from the same period last year. This represents a 10% decline sequentially and a 1% increase annually.

2024年第一季，ATM業務營收為新台幣739億，較上季減少81億新台幣，比去年同期增加6億新台幣。這意味著比上一季下降 10%，而每年增長 1%。

Gross profit for our ATM business was TWD15.6 billion, down TWD3.7 billion sequentially and up TWD0.8 billion year over year. Gross profit margin for our ATM business was 21%, down 2.4 percentage points sequentially and up 0.9 percentage points year over year. The sequential margin decline was primarily the result of lower revenues due to typical seasonality. The annual margin improvement is primarily the result of foreign exchange, offset in part by higher utility costs.

ATM 業務毛利為新台幣 156 億元，季減新台幣 37 億元，較去年同期增加新台幣 8 億元。 ATM業務毛利率為21%，較上一季下降2.4個百分點，較去年同期上升0.9個百分點。利潤率環比下降主要是因為典型季節性導致收入下降的結果。年度利潤率的提高主要是外匯的結果，部分被較高的公用事業成本所抵銷。

During the first quarter, operating expenses were TWD9.5 billion, down TWD0.5 billion sequentially, while up TWD1.2 billion year over year. The sequential decline in operating expenses was primarily driven by lower compensation expenses. The annual operating expense increase was driven primarily by scale-up of R&D labor related to leading-edge advanced packaging and to a lesser extent, the impact of our incentive stock option and bonus programs.

第一季營業費用為新台幣 95 億，季減 5 億新台幣，較去年同期增加 12 億新台幣。營運費用較上月下降主要是因為薪資費用下降。年度營運費用的成長主要是由於與領先的先進封裝相關的研發勞動力規模的擴大，以及在較小程度上，我們的激勵股票選擇權和獎金計畫的影響。

Our operating expense percentage for the quarter was 12.8%, up 0.6 percentage points sequentially and up 1.4 percentage points annually. The sequential operating expense percentage increased as a result of lower operating leverage during the seasonal soft quarter.

本季我們的營運費用百分比為 12.8%，較上季上升 0.6 個百分點，較去年同期上升 1.4 個百分點。由於季節性疲軟季度營運槓桿較低，連續營運費用百分比增加。

And noted earlier, the annual increase was due to higher compensation expenses, primarily at the R&D level. From an ongoing basis, we believe that as leading-edge advanced packaging becomes more part of our overall business. A higher concentration of R&D workforce will be required. This will lead to higher compensation expenses within our operating expenses on an absolute basis. However, from a current operating expense percentage perspective, these R&D expenses are ramping ahead of the leading-edge advanced packaging revenues they are to generate in future quarters.

前面指出，年度成長是由於薪資費用增加，主要是在研發層面。從持續的基礎上，我們相信，隨著領先的先進封裝越來越成為我們整體業務的一部分。需要更集中的研發人員。這將導致我們的營運費用中的補償費用絕對增加。然而，從目前營運費用百分比的角度來看，這些研發費用的成長速度超過了未來幾季將產生的領先先進封裝收入。

During the first quarter, operating profit was TWD6.1 billion, representing a decline of TWD3.1 billion quarter over quarter and a decline of TWD0.3 billion year over year. Operating margin was 8.2%, declining 3 percentage points sequentially and declining 0.5 percentage points year over year. For foreign exchange, we estimate that the NT to US dollar exchange rate had a negative 0.97 percentage point impact on our ATM sequential margins and a positive 1.49 percentage point impact on a year-over-year basis. Without the impact of PPA-related depreciation and amortization, ATM gross profit margin would be 22.2% and operating profit margin would be 9.7%.

第一季營業利潤為新台幣61億元，季減31億元，較去年同期減少3億元。營業利益率為 8.2%，較上一季下降 3 個百分點，較去年同期下降 0.5 個百分點。對於外匯，我們估計新台幣兌美元匯率對我們的 ATM 連續利潤率產生了 0.97 個百分點的負面影響，與去年同期相比，產生了 1.49 個百分點的正面影響。如果不考慮與購電協議相關的折舊和攤銷的影響，ATM 毛利率將為 22.2%，營業利潤率為 9.7%。

On page 6, you'll find a graphical representation of our ATM P&L. On page 7 is our ATM revenue by the 3C market segments. Our communications applications shifted 1 percentage point to our computing segment. This shows that applications generally declined together during the seasonally down quarter. On page 8, you will find our ATM revenue by service type.

在第 6 頁，您將找到我們 ATM 損益表的圖形表示。第 7 頁是我們以 3C 細分市場劃分的 ATM 收入。我們的通訊應用程式向計算領域轉移了 1 個百分點。這顯示申請量在季節性下降的季度普遍下降。在第 8 頁，您可以按服務類型查看我們的 ATM 收入。

On a quarter-over-quarter perspective, our revenues didn't change significantly with a slight shift in percentage share between others and traditional advanced packaging. However, from a year-over-year perspective, there has been a more pronounced shift towards higher-end packaging for both traditional and leading edge. It is worth noting that our stated goal of doubling leading-edge advanced packaging revenues in the current year is tracking somewhat ahead of target.

從環比來看，我們的收入沒有顯著變化，其他公司和傳統先進封裝之間的百分比份額略有變化。然而，從同比的角度來看，傳統和前沿包裝向高端包裝的轉變更加明顯。值得注意的是，我們既定的今年將領先先進封裝收入翻倍的目標在某種程度上提前了。

On page 9, you can see the first quarter results of our EMS business. Our EMS revenues came in a bit ahead of where we expected, mainly as a result of higher-than-expected customer restocking and an improving customer inventory environment. During the quarter, EMS revenues were TWD59.4 billion, declining TWD19.8 billion or 25% sequentially and improving TWD1.6 billion or 3% year over year. The sequential revenue decline is primarily attributable to typical seasonality for EMS business, while the year-over-year revenue improvement is due to higher customer restocking.

在第9頁，您可以看到我們的EMS業務第一季的業績。我們的 EMS 收入略高於我們的預期，主要是由於客戶補貨高於預期以及客戶庫存環境改善。本季度，EMS 營收為新台幣 594 億，季減 198 億新台幣或 25%，較去年同期增加 16 億新台幣或 3%。營收季減主要歸因於 EMS 業務的典型季節性，而營收年增則歸因於客戶補貨增加。

Sequentially, our EMS businesses gross margin improved 0.9 percentage points to 9.3%. This change was principally the result of product mix. Operating expenses within our EMS business stayed roughly flat with the first quarter at TWD3.8 billion, declining TWD0.1 billion sequentially. Our first quarter operating expense percentage increased 1.6 percentage points sequentially and 0.9 percentage points to 6.5%. The higher operating expense percentage was primarily driven by lower operating leverage while incurring higher global expansion costs.

隨後，我們的 EMS 業務毛利率提高了 0.9 個百分點，達到 9.3%。這種變化主要是產品組合的結果。 EMS 業務的營運支出與第一季基本持平，為 38 億新台幣，比上一季減少 1 億新台幣。我們第一季的營運費用百分比比上一季增加了 1.6 個百分點，又增加了 0.9 個百分點，達到 6.5%。營運費用百分比較高主要是因為營運槓桿較低，同時全球擴張成本較高。

Operating margin for the first quarter declined 0.7 percentage points to 2.8%, which is ahead of our initial expectations, due again to product mix. Our EMS first quarter operating profit was TWD1.7 billion, down TWD1.1 billion sequentially, while up TWD0.3 billion annually. On the bottom of the page, you will find a graphical representation of our EMS revenue by application. The moves here are generally in line with the seasonality of underlying customer products. Automotive was a larger portion of segment share, driven in part by inorganic growth.

第一季營業利潤率下降 0.7 個百分點至 2.8%，超出了我們最初的預期，這也是由於產品組合的原因。 EMS 第一季營業利潤為新台幣 17 億，較上一季減少 11 億新台幣，較去年同期成長 3 億新台幣。在頁面底部，您將找到按應用程式劃分的 EMS 收入的圖形表示。這裡的變動通常與基礎客戶產品的季節性一致。汽車產業在細分市場中所佔份額較大，部分原因是無機成長。

On page 10, you will find key line items from our balance sheet. At the end of the first quarter, we had cash, cash equivalents and current financial assets of TWD83.5 billion, increasing TWD11.5 billion. Our total interest-bearing debt increased slightly by TWD3.6 billion to TWD195.3 billion. This increase was primarily related to the impact of the Taiwan dollar depreciating against the US dollar on our US dollar-denominated debt. Total unused credit lines amounted to TWD393.9 billion. Our EBITDA for the quarter was TWD24 billion. Our net debt to equity this quarter was down to TWD0.36.

在第 10 頁，您將找到我們資產負債表中的關鍵行項目。第一季末現金、現金等價物及流動金融資產為新台幣835億元，增加115億元新台幣。有息債務總額微增36億新台幣，達到1,953億新台幣。這一增長主要與台幣兌美元貶值對我們的美元債務的影響有關。未使用信貸額度總計3,939億新台幣。我們本季的 EBITDA 為 240 億新台幣。本季我們的淨負債股本比下降至新台幣 0.36。

On page 11, you will find our equipment capital expenditures relative to our EBITDA. Machinery and equipment capital expenditures for the first quarter, in US dollars, totaled USD228 million, of which USD109 million were used in packaging operations, USD97 million in testing operations, USD21 million in EMS operations and USD1 million in interconnect material operations and others.

在第 11 頁，您會發現我們的設備資本支出與 EBITDA 的關係。第一季機械設備資本支出（以美元計）總計2.28億美元，其中1.09億美元用於封裝業務，9,700萬美元用於測試業務，2,100萬美元用於EMS業務，100萬美元用於互連材料業務及其他業務。

We continue to be excited by the prospects of AI and the incremental volumes and package requirements from these increasingly robust devices. We are continuing to see increasing adoptions across our leading-edge advanced packaging services. However, we currently are only at the beginning. We see that the foundations that are being built now will lead to new generations of low, mid, and high-end devices alike. And while AI will bring massive semiconductor volumes, step-ups in packaged level requirements, and corresponding increases in ATM revenues, the vast majority of these devices are just starting to be developed.

我們繼續對人工智慧的前景以及這些日益強大的設備所帶來的增量和封裝要求感到興奮。我們不斷看到我們領先的先進封裝服務的採用率不斷增加。然而，我們目前才剛開始。我們看到現在正在建立的基礎將導致新一代的低端、中端和高端設備。雖然人工智慧將帶來大量的半導體產量、封裝水平要求的提高以及 ATM 收入的相應增加，但絕大多數這些設備才剛開始開發。

Going forward, we believe many products may take a fresh AI angle and may create a shorter than normal refresh cycle and thus kick-start overall demand. As such, although the market recovery appears to be playing out a bit slower than previous customer forecasts, we are not looking to adjust our full year outlook. For the quarter upcoming, we still see a slightly improved demand environment for our services.

展望未來，我們相信許多產品可能會採取新的人工智慧角度，並可能創造比正常更短的更新週期，從而啟動整體需求。因此，儘管市場復甦的速度似乎比先前的客戶預測要慢一些，但我們不打算調整全年展望。對於即將到來的季度，我們的服務需求環境仍然略有改善。

On the expense side of things, we are seeing some impact to our electricity rate. Tai Power, the provider of electricity to Taiwan, has increased electricity rates by 15% for us. The increase goes into effect at the beginning of the second quarter. Further, summer rates are starting in the middle of May. The combined effect, we believe will have a negative 0.8 percentage point impact to our ATM gross margin in the second quarter. Despite this, we are looking to improve our gross margin in the second quarter given an improving favorable product mix.

在費用方面，我們看到電費受到了一些影響。台灣電力供應商台電為我們增加了15%的電費。此次上調將於第二季初生效。此外，夏季費率將於五月中旬開始。我們認為綜合效應將對我們第二季 ATM 毛利率產生 0.8 個百分點的負面影響。儘管如此，鑑於有利的產品組合不斷改善，我們仍希望提高第二季的毛利率。

From an operating expense perspective, we still continue to staff up for R&D and incur site expansion costs. However, with revenue improvement, we will look to keep our OpEx percentage flattish or close to the current range.

從營運費用的角度來看，我們仍然繼續增加研發人員並承擔站點擴展成本。然而，隨著收入的改善，我們將尋求保持營運支出百分比持平或接近當前範圍。

We would like to summarize our outlook for the second quarter 2024 as follows. For our ATM business in NT dollar terms, our ATM second quarter 2024 revenue should grow by mid-single digits quarter over quarter. Our ATM second quarter gross margin should be slightly above first quarter 2024 levels. For our EMS business in NT dollar terms, our EMS second quarter 2024 revenues should be similar with the first quarter 2024. Our EMS second quarter 2024 operating margin should be slightly below first quarter 2024 levels. That is the conclusion of our prepared remarks. I would like to open the floor to questions.

我們對 2024 年第二季的展望總結如下。對於我們以新台幣計算的 ATM 業務，我們 2024 年第二季的 ATM 收入應該會較上季成長中個位數。我們的 ATM 第二季毛利率應略高於 2024 年第一季的水準。對於以新台幣計算的 EMS 業務，我們的 EMS 2024 年第二季營收應與 2024 年第一季類似。這是我們準備好的發言的結論。我想請大家提問。

(Operator Instructions) Mr. Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan.

（操作員指令）Gokul Hariharan 先生，摩根大通。

Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. First of all, on the overall end demand outlook, Ken, you mentioned you're not really changing your outlook, which I think was 6% to 10% growth for logic semis. Could you talk within that? What are you seeing in different verticals. Last time I remember, Joseph talked about auto are potentially growing this year. Since then, we have seen some downward reductions in automotive demand. Is that still your view? And secondly, could you also comment about smartphone and communication demand given some of the concerns there. That's my first question.

嗨，下午好。感謝您提出我的問題。首先，關於整體終端需求前景，Ken，您提到您並沒有真正改變您的前景，我認為邏輯半成品的增長為 6% 到 10%。您能在其中談談嗎？您在不同的垂直領域看到了什麼？我記得上次，約瑟夫談到汽車今年可能會成長。從那時起，我們看到汽車需求下降。這仍然是你的觀點嗎？其次，鑑於一些擔憂，您能否對智慧型手機和通訊需求發表評論。這是我的第一個問題。

And yes, I think with most of the sectors where we're seeing a bottoming out in second quarter, but with automotive and industrial still some lingering softness. But I think overall, I think things will digest itself and we're still in that we're not changing our view for the outlook for the whole year at this point.

是的，我認為大多數行業都將在第二季觸底反彈，但汽車和工業仍然存在一些揮之不去的疲軟狀態。但我認為總的來說，事情會自行消化，我們目前仍然不會改變對全年前景的看法。

Yes, I think most of the sectors we're seeing are bottoming out in second quarter, but with automotive and maybe industrial still with some lingering softness. But I think, overall, I think things might digest itself, and we're not changing our view for the outlook for the whole year at this point.

是的，我認為我們看到的大多數行業都在第二季度觸底反彈，但汽車行業甚至工業行業仍然存在一些揮之不去的疲軟狀態。但我認為，總體而言，我認為事情可能會自行消化，目前我們不會改變對全年前景的看法。

So you still think Joseph that automotive will be growing this year for you?

那麼您仍然認為約瑟夫今年汽車業對您來說將會成長嗎？

Yes. We're still gaining market share on automotive. In fact, we are making quite a bit of progress in moving that part of the business up.

是的。我們仍在擴大汽車市場份額。事實上，我們在推動這部分業務的發展方面取得了相當大的進展。

Understood. Okay. My second question is on your advanced packaging, the advanced packaging related to AI that Ken mentioned is tracking ahead of plans to double this year. Could you talk a little bit about some kind of longer-term view, like how do you see this business evolve? Is it going to get to 15%, 20% of revenues in the next three, four years? Your key partner, TSMC also raised their expectations on AI-related growth. So just wanted to pick your brains on that.

明白了。好的。我的第二個問題是關於你們的先進封裝，肯提到的與人工智慧相關的先進封裝正在跟踪，計劃今年翻一番。您能否談談某種長期觀點，例如您如何看待這項業務的發展？未來三、四年內會達到收入的15%、20%嗎？您的主要合作夥伴台積電也提高了對人工智慧相關成長的期望。所以只是想請教一下您的想法。

And also related to that, now that you're doing some of the packaging for this lead GPU customer, do you stand a chance to start winning some test business also for them? I think previously you didn't have much testing, whether it is final test or system-level test. Is there a chance that you could start winning some test business with them as well in the upcoming product migration?

與此相關的是，現在您正在為這個主要 GPU 客戶進行一些包裝，您是否有機會開始為他們贏得一些測試業務？我覺得以前你們沒有太多測試，無論是最終測試還是系統級測試。在即將到來的產品遷移中，您是否有機會開始與他們一起贏得一些測試業務？

Yes, I think we still see very, very good growth momentum in the AI-related or the leading-edge, both to packaging and test. And we're ahead of our schedule for this year, and we're expecting a continuous strong growth over the next year as well.

是的，我認為我們在人工智慧相關或前沿領域仍然看到非常非常好的成長勢頭，無論是封裝還是測試。我們今年的計畫提前了，我們預計明年也將持續強勁成長。

In terms of test, I think overall speaking, we are increasing our full year CapEx by another 10%. And the bulk of the increase is in test, and we are making further investments to win not only, to raise not only our turnkey ratio, but also to penetrate more into the test-only kind of business and that of course, includes the advanced testing.

在測試方面，我認為總體而言，我們將全年資本支出再增加 10%。成長的大部分是在測試中，我們正在進行進一步的投資，不僅是為了贏得勝利，不僅提高我們的交鑰匙比率，而且還更多地滲透到僅測試類型的業務，當然，包括先進的測試。

Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley.

陳查理，摩根士丹利。

Hi, Joseph, Ken. Good afternoon. So I have a few questions. First of all, it's also related to your advanced packaging. May I know your progress in the AI GPU testing business opportunity, especially burn-in? This seems to be a very important process. Do you think the company will gain much market share this year?

嗨，約瑟夫，肯。午安.所以我有幾個問題。首先，這也和你的高級封裝有關。請問你們在AI GPU測試業務機會，特別是老化的進度如何？這似乎是一個非常重要的過程。您認為公司今年會獲得多少市佔率？

We are investing in test and that also includes burn-in. And we're hopeful that we will be seeing some volume by the later part of the year.

我們正在投資測試​​，其中還包括老化。我們希望在今年下半年能夠看到一定的銷售量。

Okay, thanks, Joseph. And another one is more on the end demand and the cycle recovery. So we continue to hear that China's smartphone related semiconductor is seeing some forecast cuts, destocking. Does the company see similar trend? And do you think it's kind of short-lived? Or you think third quarter from the smartphone segment, you're also seeing very muted growth into the quarter.

好的，謝謝，約瑟夫。另一項更多的是關於終端需求和週期復甦。因此，我們不斷聽到中國智慧型手機相關的半導體正在出現一些預測削減、去庫存。公司是否看到類似的趨勢？您認為這種情況是短暫的嗎？或者你認為智慧型手機領域的第三季度，你也會看到該季度的成長非常緩慢。

I think overall we are still looking at the whole market and most of the sectors will be bottoming out and we're seeing steady, but kind of moderate growth in the cellphone area. And the strongest is still high-performance computing. The other areas, we're seeing gradual recovery. And coming into second half, we will see much more substantial growth momentum.

我認為總體而言，我們仍在關注整個市場，大多數行業都將觸底反彈，我們看到手機領域穩定但適度的成長。而最強的仍然是高效能運算。其他領域，我們正在逐步復甦。進入下半年，我們將看到更強勁的成長動能。

Brad Lin, BofA.

布拉德林，美國銀行。

Thank you for taking my question. So I have two questions. One is on the advanced packaging. So as we learned that the OSAT including probably ASE prefers non-silicon-based interposer solutions for this leading-edge advanced packaging. So when or what time does the management see faster adoption in this type of solution and contribute to ASE? Thank you.

感謝您回答我的問題。所以我有兩個問題。一是在先進封裝上。據我們了解，OSAT（可能包括 ASE）更喜歡採用非矽中介層解決方案來實現這種領先的先進封裝。那麼，管理層何時或何時會看到此類解決方案更快採用並為 ASE 做出貢獻？謝謝。

Well, we are in mass production at this point, and we are seeing -- we're having a lot of engagement with some other customers as well. And I can't predict the pace of it, but we certainly see very good growth potential in this area as well.

嗯，我們目前正在進行大規模生產，我們看到 - 我們也與其他一些客戶進行了很多接觸。我無法預測它的速度，但我們當然也看到了這個領域非常好的成長潛力。

Got it. So, for the strong growth that we just mentioned into 2025, currently, is still based on the well, silicon base solution. Can I assume that?

知道了。所以，我們剛才提到的到2025年的強勁成長，目前仍然是基於井矽基解決方案。我可以這樣假設嗎？

Well it can be both. I think with our solution, we'll see some pickup in next year as well --

嗯，兩者都可以。我認為透過我們的解決方案，明年我們也會看到一些回升——

Got it. Thank you very much.

知道了。非常感謝。

As we go with the existing packaging.

當我們使用現有的包裝。

Got it, thank you. And then my second question will be about the on-device AI. So what will be the increasing value addition from ASE in the on-device AI? And when do we think that growth to be meaningfully pick up in the future?

收到了。我的第二個問題是關於設備上的人工智慧。那麼，ASE 在裝置端 AI 方面的附加價值會不斷增加嗎？我們認為未來什麼時候成長才會有意義？

Yeah, I think, this year we are ahead of schedule in doubling that part of the business. Next year, we still see very strong momentum going on. And not just from the business from the foundry but also we're having engagement with multiple customers including design houses, the system houses. So actually, I think there's a momentum building at this point, and we do have fairly good confidence in growing that part of business quite substantially next year as well.

是的，我認為，今年我們提前將這部分業務翻了一番。明年，我們仍然看到非常強勁的勢頭。不僅來自鑄造廠的業務，我們也與多個客戶合作，包括設計公司、系統公司。所以實際上，我認為目前勢頭正在增強，而且我們確實對明年這部分業務的大幅增長充滿信心。

Randy Abrams, UBS.

蘭迪艾布拉姆斯，瑞銀集團。

Hi, thank you. I wanted to ask a follow-up on your CapEx, the 10% higher CapEx. So could you go through -- is some of that also tied to advanced packaging? I think you mentioned the test. And could you remind us, you're now -- because equipment CapEx was still fairly low in the first quarter, what's the CapEx guidance full year now for the equipment or for overall?

嗨，謝謝你。我想詢問您的資本支出的後續情況，即資本支出增加 10%。那麼您能否問一下──其中一些也與先進封裝有關？我想你提到了測試。您能否提醒我們，由於第一季設備資本支出仍然相當低，現在設備或整體的全年資本支出指引是多少？

And the follow up here is, with the optimism into next year, are we starting another CapEx cycle? Like we're at a low base, but do you think directionally there could be a good increase with you noting more AI opportunities to go after?

接下來的問題是，帶著對明年的樂觀態度，我們是否會開始另一個資本支出週期？就像我們的基數較低一樣，但您認為隨著您注意到更多的人工智慧機會可以追求，方向上可能會出現良好的成長嗎？

Yeah. I think for this year, we are upping our CapEx by another 10%. We mentioned last time that this year will be a 40% to 50% growth in our CapEx, and we're upping that. I think in terms of overall CapEx, roughly 61% for packaging and 24% for tests. And for test portion of it, the percentage has been -- has increased from last quarter as well, we were budgeting about 18% now to 24%. So, we are making quite a bit of investment or expanding quite a bit of our investment in test CapEx, aiming to leverage on our turnkey services as well as trying to get more of the test only business as well. So, I think in terms of the overall CapEx roughly, I would say 50% of it will be for advanced and the other half of it will be for the maintenance and also some of the upgrades.

是的。我認為今年我們的資本支出將再增加 10%。我們上次提到，今年我們的資本支出將增加 40% 到 50%，我們正在提高這個數字。我認為就總體資本支出而言，大約 61% 用於封裝，24% 用於測試。對於測試部分，該百分比也比上季度有所增加，我們的預算現在約為 18% 至 24%。因此，我們在測試資本支出上進行了大量投資或擴大了相當多的投資，旨在利用我們的統包服務，並試圖獲得更多僅測試業務。因此，我認為就總體資本支出而言，大致而言，我認為其中 50% 將用於高級，另一半將用於維護和一些升級。

Okay. Great and thanks for the color, Joseph. I'll ask a quick follow-up on that and then the second question. For the test, could you clarify, is that application more HPC, like high-performance compute driven? And then the second question I wanted to ask on -- it looks like a few things happening on margins. So, on the gross margin, could you talk about the mix change, which you're getting some product mix change, both ATM and sounds like EMS as well. And on the OpEx side, with some more of this investment in R&D, the view for OpEx, I guess I should say OpEx growth, how much do you think the OpEx has to grow?

好的。太棒了，謝謝你的顏色，約瑟夫。我將對此進行快速跟進，然後提出第二個問題。對於測試，您能否澄清一下，該應用程式是否更加 HPC，例如高效能運算驅動？然後是我想問的第二個問題——看起來有些事情發生在邊緣。那麼，在毛利率方面，您能談談產品組合的變化嗎？在營運支出方面，隨著更多的研發投資，對於營運支出的看法，我想我應該說營運支出成長，您認為營運支出必須成長多少？

Well, I think testing CapEx is both for the HPC as well as other applications. And as I mentioned, we do have a lot of opportunities in reaching our overall turnkey ratio, and that includes all products. And of course, in terms of the more advanced or AI-related tests, we are also investing into that area, and we expect to have some -- making some inroads in that area as well.

嗯，我認為測試資本支出既適用於 HPC，也適用於其他應用程式。正如我所提到的，我們確實有很多機會來達到我們的整體交鑰匙率，其中包括所有產品。當然，就更先進的或與人工智慧相關的測試而言，我們也在對該領域進行投資，並且我們期望在該領域也取得一些進展。

What's the other part of the? Okay, gross profit margin, I think the improvement is of course, coming from revenue increase as well as our more favorable product mix as we go into -- as we grow our more leading-edge packaging and test.

的另一部分是什麼？好吧，毛利率的提高當然是來自收入的增加以及我們更有利的產品組合，因為我們發展了更領先的封裝和測試。

In terms of operating expenses, I think the increase mostly coming from our beefed-up R&D investments. And we're staffing up in R&D, putting more resources into more advanced packaging and test. And of course, we are in the process of expanding our overseas sites as well. So there will be some more additional investment put into it.

就營業費用而言，我認為成長主要來自於我們加大了研發投入。我們正在增加研發人員，將更多資源投入更先進的封裝和測試中。當然，我們也在擴大我們的海外網站。因此，將會有更多的額外投資投入其中。

And also, in terms of compensation, we've granted our new round of employee stock options. So, we will be including that part of the expense increase as well for this year. All in all, I think for the whole year, operating expense percentage will have about 1% increase from last year or less than 1%.

此外，在薪酬方面，我們也授予了新一輪員工股票選擇權。因此，我們也將把今年的費用增加部分納入。總而言之，我認為全年營業費用比例將比去年增加約1%或不到1%。

Rick Hsu, Daiwa Securities.

Rick Hsu，大和證券。

Can you guys hear me?

你們聽得到我說話嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

Okay. Hi, thank you for taking my question. And so the first question is a housekeeping one. Can you share with us your utilization rates across of ATM for the coming second quarter?

好的。你好，謝謝你回答我的問題。所以第一個問題就是內務問題。您能否與我們分享您第二季 ATM 的使用率？

We have about slightly below 60% in quarter one and quarter two with the revenue growth, we're seeing the overall utilization rate could be slightly above 60%.

隨著營收成長，第一季和第二季的利用率略低於 60%，我們看到整體利用率可能略高於 60%。

Alright. The second question also about your second half. I remember last quarter, Joseph, you said your ATM gross margin will go back to your structural target, which is mid-20 to 30. Is that still viable for your second half of this year?

好吧。第二個問題也是關於你的下半場。我記得上個季度，約瑟夫，您說您的 ATM 毛利率將回到您的結構性目標，即 20 至 30 左右。

Yeah, I think from the forecast we have, we're still pretty confident that we will be reaching our structural margin in the second half of the year. And I think we have a fairly good chance that for the whole year, we'll be -- we can also reach that level.

是的，我認為從我們的預測來看，我們仍然非常有信心在今年下半年達到結構性利潤。我認為我們有一個相當好的機會，在全年中，我們也可以達到這個水準。

(Operator Instructions) Bruce Lu, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指令）Bruce Lu，高盛。

Okay, thank you for taking my question. I want to ask about your US expansion plan. The advanced packaging business, a major chunk of it is coming from the foundry outsourcing part, on the other hand, you probably be the most important outsourcing partner for TSMC. But as TSMC mentioned during the call, that they are very happy to see Amkor is going to have another advanced packaging facility in US, which ASE doesn't really have a sizable facility there. Do you have any plan to do that? Do you see any change in terms of landscape? How you do the business with TSMC in the future?

好的，謝謝你回答我的問題。我想問一下你們的美國擴張計劃。先進封裝業務，很大一部分來自代工外包部分，而你可能是台積電最重要的外包夥伴。但正如台積電在電話會議中提到的，他們很高興看到 Amkor 將在美國擁有另一家先進的封裝工廠，而 ASE 在那裡並沒有真正擁有相當大的工廠。你有計劃這樣做嗎？您看到景觀有什麼變化嗎？未來與台積電的業務如何進行？

We're not precluding any possibility, but then any investment that we make needs to make economic sense. And right now, we're not sure that a greenfield operation setup in the US fits into that category. So we're monitoring the situation at this point. And I think bulk of the advanced packaging or test can still be serviced out of Taiwan and or other area locations as well.

我們不排除任何可能性，但我們所做的任何投資都需要具有經濟意義。目前，我們不確定美國的新建營運機構是否屬於這一類別。所以我們目前正在監控情況。我認為大部分先進封裝或測試仍然可以在台灣和/或其他地區提供服務。

So even with government subsidy, you still don't think that's a profitable business or a good returns business?

那麼即使有政府補貼，你仍然認為這不是賺錢的產業，回報好的產業嗎？

No, I don't think it's wise to make any commercial decision based on subsidy.

不，我認為基於補貼做出任何商業決定都是不明智的。

Okay, I would tell Amkor that.

好的，我會告訴 Amkor。

I think they know that too.

我想他們也知道這一點。

Okay. The next question is for the SiP business. I mean, what do we see SiP business growth in this year and the coming years? I mean, it has been muted for quite some time already. When can we see another growth momentum for the SiP business?

好的。下一個問題是針對 SiP 業務的。我的意思是，我們對今年和未來幾年的 SiP 業務成長有何看法？我的意思是，它已經被靜音了很長一段時間了。我們什麼時候才能看到SiP業務的另一個成長動力？

I think the SIP business for this year, we could see a flattish or a little bit down for the whole quarter because well, for the whole year, given the fact that there are less products be introduced on and there's some there are seasonalities and we are seeing in all market conditions are a little bit different from previous years. And but again, we are still quite actively engaging with customers and some of the some of the partners are they going to be mass-produced and some are earlier stage, but we do feel that come next year, see growth in our SIP business.

我認為今年的 SIP 業務，整個季度我們可能會看到持平或略有下降，因為全年而言，考慮到推出的產品較少，而且有些產品存在季節性，我們所看到的所有市場狀況與往年略有不同。但同樣，我們仍然非常積極地與客戶接觸，其中一些合作夥伴將進行大量生產，有些還處於早期階段，但我們確實認為明年我們的 SIP 業務將會成長。

I think the SiP business for this year, we could see a flattish or a little bit down for the whole quarter -- for the whole year, given the fact that there are less products being introduced. And there is the seasonality, and we are seeing, market conditions are a little bit different from previous years. But we are still quite actively engaging with customers. And some of the products are going to be mass produced and some are in earlier stage. But we do feel that come next year, the growth in our SiP business will resume.

我認為今年的 SiP 業務，我們可能會看到整個季度（全年）持平或略有下降，因為推出的產品較少。還有季節性，我們看到，市場狀況與往年有些不同。但我們仍然非常積極地與客戶互動。其中部分產品即將量產，部分產品處於前期。但我們確實認為明年我們的 SiP 業務將會恢復成長。

Luara Chen, Citigroup.

Luara Chen，花旗集團。

Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. Just a quick follow-up on the gross margin. Just so you mentioned that for the structural gross margin target of 25% to 30% is achievable or not just for the second half but also for the full year, is that correct?

嗨，下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。只是對毛利率的快速跟進。剛才您提到25%至30%的結構性毛利率目標是可以實現的，或者不僅是下半年，全年也是可以實現的，對嗎？

Yes. I think for the second half, we will sort of reach that level. And we are trying very hard and working very hard to -- for the whole year, we're working hard to reach that level as well.

是的。我認為下半年我們會達到這個水準。我們非常努力，非常努力地工作——整整一年，我們也在努力達到這個水準。

Thank you. Appreciate the --

謝謝。欣賞——

Bear in mind that's with the increase of our utility costs. The recent rate increase is for us, it's about 15% in electricity in Taiwan. And that will have roughly about 0.8% impact on us. So, that needs to be offset as well. So, even with that kind of increase in cost, we are still confident that in the second half, we will reach that. And we have -- we are feeling, at this point, quite comfortable that for the whole year, we should be able to reach that as well.

請記住，這是隨著我們的公用事業成本的增加而發生的。最近的加價是針對我們來說的，台灣的電費大概是15%左右。這將對我們產生大約 0.8% 的影響。因此，這也需要抵消。因此，即使成本增加，我們仍然有信心在下半年實現這一目標。現在，我們感到非常放心，在這一整年裡，我們也應該能夠實現這一目標。

Thank you. May I understand that aside from the utilization rate improvement, do we also assuming that more mix change toward to the advanced packaging or AI-related or increasing like testing revenue, which would lead to higher gross margin?

謝謝。我是否可以理解，除了利用率的提高之外，我們是否還假設更多的組合轉向先進封裝或人工智慧相關或增加測試收入，這將導致更高的毛利率？

Yes, that's correct. We believe the higher advanced packaging as well as our test business will definitely help our margin.

對，那是正確的。我們相信更先進的封裝以及我們的測試業務肯定會有助於我們的利潤率。

Okay. Thank you. That's very helpful.

好的。謝謝。這非常有幫助。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jason Tsang, CLSA.

曾傑生，里昂證券。

You preferably mentioned that it makes sense for ASE to enter the new AP business when it is mainstream enough to reach maybe mass production stage for ASE. So is that's the case as for leading-edge service that you talked about. How should we expect the volumes or contribution for this kind of advanced packagings? Or your new business? Thank you.

您最好提到，當日月光新的應用處理器業務已經成為主流，足以達到日月光的量產階段時，日月光進入新的應用處理器業務是有意義的。您提到的前沿服務也是如此。我們應該如何預期這種先進封裝的銷售或貢獻？或你的新業務？謝謝。

Are you talking about percentage of revenue?

你說的是收入的百分比嗎？

Yeah. or can you give us more colors on maybe the contributions or your outlook in the future?

是的。或者您能給我們更多關於您的貢獻或您對未來的展望嗎？

Well, look, last year we have about low-single digit percentage of revenue coming from what we call the leading edge. And we are, as we pointed out last time, we expect to double that to mid-single digit. And as I pointed out that next year, we still continue to see strong momentum. But in terms of the exact percentage, we don't have -- I don't have that number yet because we're expecting not only the advanced packaging will grow. The other so-called traditional advanced packaging or tests and all the other areas will grow as AI development continues to expand.

好吧，看，去年我們的收入中只有大約個位數的百分比來自我們所謂的領先優勢。正如我們上次指出的那樣，我們預計將這一數字翻倍至中個位數。正如我所指出的，明年我們仍將繼續看到強勁的勢頭。但就確切的百分比而言，我們還沒有——我還沒有這個數字，因為我們預計不僅先進封裝會成長。其他所謂的傳統先進封裝或測試以及所有其他領域都將隨著人工智慧發展的不斷擴大而成長。

Okay, got it. So my second question in terms of your outlook in second half this year. So can we expect seasonality or hot season for end demands to sustain our growth momentum for maybe traditional packagings, flipchip or even mature testing or any kind of service or products in Q3 or Q4?

好，知道了。我的第二個問題是關於今年下半年的展望。那麼，我們是否可以預期終端需求的季節性或旺季能夠維持我們在第三季或第四季的傳統封裝、倒裝晶片甚至成熟測試或任何類型的服務或產品的成長動能？

I think Q3, Q4 or second half, we will see all kinds of -- all products to start to grow. But I think leading edge would may be above the corporate average.

我認為第三季、第四季或下半年，我們將看到各種——所有產品都開始成長。但我認為領先優勢可能會高於企業平均。

Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan.

戈庫爾·哈里哈蘭，摩根大通。

Yeah, hi. Thanks for the follow-up opportunity. First one I wanted to explore a little bit is the partnership with the leading foundry for the advanced packaging. Could you help us understand a little bit the nature of this agreement, the arrangement? Is that something that you have visibility into the long term? And is it kind of like a strategic partnership that ASE has entered into? Or is it something that doesn't have that kind of visibility given they're also expanding their own in-house capacity as well? So I just want to understand how this partnership works over the next, let's say, three, four years.

是的，嗨。感謝您的後續機會。我想探討的第一個是與領先的先進封裝代工廠的合作關係。您能幫我們稍微了解一下這個協議的性質、安排嗎？從長遠來看，這是你能看到的事情嗎？這是否類似於日月光達成的戰略夥伴關係？還是因為他們也在擴大自己的內部產能，所以沒有這種可見度？所以我只想了解這種夥伴關係在接下來的三年、四年內如何運作。

Well, obviously, we work very closely with the foundries, and we do have continuous dialogue with them and to set up a expansion plan for our own capacity. But this is something that between us and the foundry, I don't think it's proper for us to discuss what exactly the arrangement will be.

顯然，我們與代工廠密切合作，我們確實與他們進行持續對話，並為我們自己的產能製定擴張計劃。但這是我們和代工廠之間的事情，我認為我們不適合討論具體的安排。

Okay. But do you think it's something that will continue to drive the growth for the next three, four years?

好的。但您認為這會在未來三、四年繼續推動成長嗎？

Yeah, I think. We do have good visibility, but I don't want to get into the detail for it.

是的，我想。我們確實有很好的可見性，但我不想透露細節。

Okay. No worries. Thanks, Joseph. A couple of quick follow-ups, one is on pricing. Any changes you're seeing on pricing? And for the electricity tariff increase, is there any chance you are able to pass through some of these cost increases to customers?

好的。不用擔心。謝謝，約瑟夫。幾個快速的後續行動，其中一個是關於定價的。您發現定價有任何變化嗎？對於電費上漲，你們是否有機會將部分成本上漲轉嫁給客戶？

And also secondly, on the traditional packaging side, utilization in the early 60s definitely seems quite low. Based on your current customer forecast, any view on when we get back to like 70%, 75%? Will it happen this year, or we'll have to wait for next year to kind of get back to 70%, 75% utilization? Thank you.

其次，在傳統包裝方面，60 年代初期的使用率似乎相當低。根據您目前的客戶預測，我們對何時恢復到 70%、75% 有什麼看法嗎？今年會發生嗎？謝謝。

Well I think going into second half, we will start to see our utilization to grow. And I think it's safe to say that we will be above 70% for second half.

嗯，我認為進入下半年，我們將開始看到我們的利用率成長。我認為可以肯定地說，下半年我們的目標將超過 70%。

Okay.

好的。

And I think in terms of pricing, I think we're still -- I think the pricing overall pricing for us is still resilient, and there are bit of a price pressure on the legacy products. But overall, I think on average, I think our pricing still remains to be resilient. And I think overall pricing structure will be much better than past cycles.

我認為在定價方面，我認為我們的定價整體定價仍然具有彈性，並且傳統產品存在一些價格壓力。但總的來說，我認為平均而言，我們的定價仍然具有彈性。我認為整體定價結構將比過去的週期好得多。

Any chance you can pass on some of this electricity tariff because it seems like it's not a one-year thing. It's actually happening every year now.

你有機會可以轉嫁部分電費，因為這似乎不是一年的事。事實上現在每年都會發生。

Yes. All costs are being considered. And when we further set up the proper pricing that we have. So, whether it's 100% passed out or is shared with our customers, I think we will just come up with the sort of pricing, considering all the costs that we need to bear.

是的。所有成本都在考慮之中。當我們進一步製定適當的定價時。所以，無論是100%傳遞還是與我們的客戶分享，我認為我們都會考慮到我們需要承擔的所有成本來提出這樣的定價。

Got it. Thanks Joseph. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝約瑟夫。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

There are no more questions.

沒有更多問題了。

Okay to --

好的——

I'm sorry, there is a follow-up question from Jason Tsang of CLSA.

抱歉，里昂證券的 Jason Tsang 有一個後續問題。

Yeah. Sorry, I have follow-up questions. I wonder if you can provide more details on your comments regarding the leading-edge service. I mean, can you provide some of the type for cutting-edge packagings, like 2.5D or 3D or chip on wafer, or substrates? What kind of the type of advanced packaging or testing can you currently enter into the mass production stage, or have the contribution right now? Thank you.

是的。抱歉，我還有後續問題。我想知道您是否可以提供更多關於您對領先服務的評論的詳細資訊。我的意思是，你們能否提供一些用於尖端封裝的類型，例如 2.5D 或 3D 或晶圓上晶片或基板？什麼樣的先進封裝或測試目前可以進入量產階段，或現在有貢獻？謝謝。

Currently we have fan-out, we have 2.5D, we have OS. I think those are our focus, those are the one -- the type of packages we call leading edge.

目前我們有扇出、2.5D、作業系統。我認為這些是我們的重點，這些就是我們稱之為前沿的軟體包類型。

Okay. And all of them account for, right now, its low single digit of the ATM business, right?

好的。目前，所有這些業務在 ATM 業務中所佔的比例都較低，對吧？

Like I said, for this year, we're expecting mid-single digit.

就像我說的，今年我們預計會達到中個位數。

Okay, got it. Thank you.

好，知道了。謝謝。

There are no more questions.

沒有更多問題了。

Okay. To sum up, I think we had a better than expected first quarter. And going into second, we are on track of things for the whole year. We're also expecting same kind of outlook that we presented last time. I think overall, this is -- all sectors are bottoming out, maybe with some different test sectors with different time, well pace or time schedule. But all in all, we are comfortable with the current situation, and we'll continue to make the necessary investments to service whatever customers' needs, including the leading edge and also on the test side, we are increasing our CapEx as well to try to win more test business. Thank you very much. We'll see you next quarter.

好的。總而言之，我認為我們第一季的表現比預期好。進入第二個階段，我們全年的進展都處於正軌。我們也期待我們上次提出的同樣的前景。我認為總體而言，所有行業都在觸底反彈，也許一些不同的測試行業有不同的時間、節奏或時間表。但總而言之，我們對目前的情況感到滿意，我們將繼續進行必要的投資來滿足客戶的任何需求，包括領先優勢以及測試方面，我們也正在增加資本支出以嘗試贏得更多的測試業務。非常感謝。我們下季見。