Asure Software Inc (ASUR) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and welcome to Asure's third quarter 2024 earnings conference call. Joining us for today's call are Chairman and CEO, Pat Goepel; Chief Financial Officer, John Pence; and Vice President of Investor Relations, Patrick McKillop. (Operator Instructions)

下午好，歡迎參加 Asure 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。加入我們今天電話會議的有董事長兼執行長 Pat Goepel；財務長約翰·彭斯；和投資者關係副總裁 Patrick McKillop。（操作員說明）

I would now like to turn the call over to Patrick McKillop for introductory remarks. Please go ahead.

我現在想將電話轉給帕特里克·麥基洛普 (Patrick McKillop)，請其作介紹性發言。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us for Asure's third quarter 2024 earnings results call.

謝謝你，接線生。大家下午好，感謝您參加 Asure 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。

Following the close of the markets, we released our financial results for the quarter. The earnings release is available on the SEC's website and our Investor Relations website at investor.asuresoftware.com, where you can also find the investor presentation.

市場收盤後，我們發布了本季的財務表現。收益報告可在 SEC 網站和我們的投資者關係網站 Investor.asuresoftware.com 上獲取，您也可以在其中找到投資者簡報。

During the call today, we will reference non-GAAP financial measures, which we believe to be useful to investors and exclude the impact of certain items. A description and timing of those items, along with the reconciliation of non-GAAP measures, to the most comparable GAAP measures, can be found in our earnings release.

在今天的電話會議中，我們將參考非公認會計準則財務指標，我們認為這些指標對投資者有用，並排除了某些項目的影響。這些項目的描述和時間安排，以及非公認會計準則指標與最具可比性的公認會計準則指標的調節，可以在我們的收益報告中找到。

Today's call will also contain forward-looking statements that refer to future events and as such, involve some risks. We use words such as expects, believes and may to indicate forward-looking statements, and we encourage you to review our filings with the SEC for additional information on factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from our current expectations.

今天的電話會議還將包含涉及未來事件的前瞻性陳述，因此涉及一些風險。我們使用「預期」、「相信」和「可能」等字眼來表示前瞻性陳述，我們鼓勵您查看我們向SEC 提交的文件，以獲取有關可能導致實際結果與我們當前預期產生重大差異的因素的更多資訊。

I will hand the call over to Pat in a moment, but I just wanted to take a moment to remind folks of our upcoming Investor Relations activities. On November 19, we will be attending the Craig-Hallum Alpha Select Conference in New York, followed by the Roth Technology Conference on November 20, also taking place in New York.

我稍後會將電話轉給帕特，但我只是想花點時間提醒大家我們即將開展的投資者關係活動。11 月 19 日，我們將參加在紐約舉行的 Craig-Hallum Alpha Select 會議，隨後將於 11 月 20 日參加同樣在紐約舉行的 Roth 技術會議。

On November 21, we will attend the Stephens Annual Investment Conference in Nashville and have an executive team member attend the Needham SaaS Virtual Conference that day. During the month of December, we will attend two virtual conferences, the TD Cowen Human Capital Management Summit on December 9, and on December 12, the Northland Capital Markets Conference. Investor outreach is very important to Asure, and I would like to thank all of those that assist us in our efforts to connect with investors.

11 月 21 日，我們將參加在納許維爾舉行的 Stephens 年度投資會議，並有一名執行團隊成員參加當天的 Needham SaaS 虛擬會議。12月期間，我們將參加兩場虛擬會議，即12月9日的TD Cowen人力資本管理高峰會和12月12日的北國資本市場會議。投資者宣傳對 Asure 非常重要，我要感謝所有幫助我們與投資者建立聯繫的人。

Finally, I would like to remind everyone that this call is being recorded, and it will be made available for replay via a link available on the Investor Relations section of our website.

最後，我想提醒大家，本次電話會議正在錄音，並將透過我們網站投資者關係部分的連結進行重播。

With that, I would now like to turn the call over to Pat Goepel, Chairman and CEO. Pat?

現在，我想將電話轉給董事長兼執行長 Pat Goepel。拍？

Thank you, Patrick, and welcome, everyone, to Asure Software's third quarter 2024, earnings results call. I'm joined on this call by our CFO, John Pence, and we will provide a business update for our third quarter 2024, results as well as our outlook for the remainder of 2024, and our initial 2025, outlook. Following our remarks, we will be available to answer your questions.

謝謝派崔克，歡迎大家參加 Asure Software 的 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。我們的財務長約翰·彭斯(John Pence) 也參加了本次電話會議，我們將提供2024 年第三季的業務更新、業績以及對2024 年剩餘時間的展望，以及對2025 年的初步展望。在我們的發言之後，我們將回答您的問題。

Our third quarter revenue was $29.3 million, which was flat relative to prior year, owing to an approximate $5 million decrease, a nonrecurring ERTC revenue. Excluding the ERTC comparison, total revenue and total recurring revenue both grew by 20% compared to last year.

我們第三季的營收為 2,930 萬美元，與去年同期持平，原因是非經常性 ERTC 收入減少了約 500 萬美元。排除 ERTC 的比較，總收入和總經常性收入均較去年增長了 20%。

Importantly, reoccurring revenue in the third quarter was 98% of our total revenue compared with just 81% in the prior year's period. As you know, recurring revenue is significantly more valuable than nonrecurring revenue.

重要的是，第三季的經常性收入占我們總收入的 98%，而去年同期僅為 81%。如您所知，經常性收入比非經常性收入更有價值。

Our focus has been on replacing the lower value ERTC revenue with recurring revenue, and you can see the result of our efforts in the improved revenue mix in the third quarter. Key drivers of our revenue performance in the quarter include acquisitions and organic growth from an expanding portfolio of solutions.

我們的重點是用經常性收入取代價值較低的 ERTC 收入，您可以在第三季看到我們在改善收入組合方面所做努力的結果。我們本季營收表現的主要驅動因素包括收購和不斷擴大的解決方案組合帶來的有機成長。

In terms of acquisitions, we have acquired 12 companies over the past four quarters with repetitive revenue of approximately $15 million. The average purchase price is equivalent to about a 2.6 times multiple on repetitive revenue.

在收購方面，我們在過去四個季度收購了 12 家公司，重複收入約 1,500 萬美元。平均購買價格相當於重複收入的約2.6倍。

The acquisitions have been primarily of payroll resellers, but we've also been able to round out our solution set. For example, Hire Click gives us a scalable solution for our clients to help them manage and have success with their hiring programs. We plan to expand Hire Click's applicant tracking system nationally and believe it brings capabilities that fit a key need for our clients and thereby enables us to provide a more comprehensive solution set and capture wallet share.

這些收購主要針對薪資經銷商，但我們也能夠完善我們的解決方案集。例如，Hire Click 為我們的客戶提供了一個可擴展的解決方案，幫助他們管理招募計劃並取得成功。我們計劃在全國範圍內擴展 Hire Click 的申請人追蹤系統，並相信它帶來的功能能夠滿足我們客戶的關鍵需求，從而使我們能夠提供更全面的解決方案集並贏得錢包份額。

Turning to our organic performance to 5% organic recurring revenue growth in the quarter did not meet our expectations. However, we believe we've had some really encouraging leading indicators and momentum in place as we finish 2024, and embark into 2025, that will accelerate our organic performance.

談到我們的有機業績，本季有機經常性營收成長 5% 並沒有達到我們的預期。然而，我們相信，在 2024 年結束並進入 2025 年時，我們已經有了一些真正令人鼓舞的領先指標和勢頭，這將加速我們的有機績效。

Our sales bookings were up 141% compared to last year. Our current backlog has grown 35% sequentially from Q2 to Q3 2024, and is up 250% versus prior year. This will set us up nicely for double-digit organic growth in 2025.

與去年相比，我們的銷售預訂量增加了 141%。從 2024 年第二季到第三季度，我們目前的積壓訂單連續成長了 35%，比去年同期成長了 250%。這將為我們在 2025 年實現兩位數的有機成長奠定良好的基礎。

We also have a strong pipeline of tax solutions for large enterprises. In the past, we've shared our thoughts about the relatively unique asset we have in the tax space, and we're now beginning to capitalize on it with some very large deals in process of going live in a very robust pipeline.

我們也為大型企業提供強大的稅務解決方案。過去，我們分享了對我們在稅務領域擁有的相對獨特資產的看法，現在我們開始利用它，透過一些非常大的交易在一個非常強大的管道中進行。

We're pleased to report that we went live with additional Workday and SAP clients, important sales wins have included one of America's largest grocery store chain. In a nationally known human capital management system integrator that assists large enterprises with Workday, SAP and Oracle Human Capital Management implementation.

我們很高興地報告，我們與其他 Workday 和 SAP 客戶一起上線，重要的銷售勝利包括美國最大的雜貨連鎖店之一。在一家全國知名的人力資本管理系統整合商中，協助大型企業實施Workday、SAP和Oracle人力資本管理。

In the quarter, our repetitive growth was broad-based, and we've expanded our product offerings and our partnerships to better serve businesses of all sizes. Initiatives that we're excited about include 401k solutions for small businesses. This initiative leverages the government's SECURE 2.0 Act, which encourages adoption and provides funding for 401k plans for small businesses.

在本季度，我們的重複成長是基礎廣泛的，我們擴大了產品範圍和合作夥伴關係，以更好地為各種規模的企業提供服務。我們感到興奮的舉措包括針對小型企業的 401k 解決方案。該計劃利用了政府的 SECURE 2.0 法案，該法案鼓勵小型企業採用 401k 計劃並為其提供資金。

In addition to our brokerage capability in the benefit space, we have also recently introduced workmen's compensation solutions, as well as preventative health care solutions for small businesses. We're very excited about the upcoming launch of a new financial services product called Asure Pay.

除了我們在福利領域的經紀能力外，我們最近還推出了工人賠償解決方案，以及針對小型企業的預防性醫療保健解決方案。我們對即將推出名為 Asure Pay 的新金融服務產品感到非常興奮。

Asure Pay is an innovative alternative to online banking for working Americans while also providing advantages to employers with employee attraction, retention and overall efficiency, delivered via an easy-to-use mobile app it will offer features such as a debit card, free ATM withdraws, paycheck advances and quite a bit more.

Asure Pay 是美國工薪階層線上銀行的創新替代方案，同時也為雇主提供了員工吸引力、保留率和整體效率方面的優勢，透過易於使用的行動應用程式提供，它將提供借記卡、免費ATM提款等功能、預支薪資等等。

Now, I'd like to spend a minute or two on operations. We have a multiple-pronged approach to improve business processes, technology and create scale economies from our continued revenue growth. Acquisitions are an important part of this strategy. We're pleased with our performance in this area.

現在，我想花一兩分鐘來操作。我們採取多管齊下的方法來改善業務流程、技術並透過持續的收入成長創造規模經濟。收購是這項策略的重要組成部分。我們對我們在這領域的表現感到滿意。

We've executed several payroll transactions that should lead to higher revenues and profitability over the coming years. We believe that our established playbook is highly effective in maximizing the margin potential of these new acquisitions. The playbook offers us to efficiently transition these acquisitions onto our platforms, cross-sell our enhanced capabilities, which we believe will enhance profitability with scale.

我們已經執行了幾筆薪資交易，這些交易應該會在未來幾年帶來更高的收入和獲利能力。我們相信，我們既定的策略對於最大限度地提高這些新收購的利潤潛力非常有效。該策略使我們能夠有效地將這些收購轉移到我們的平台上，交叉銷售我們增強的能力，我們相信這將透過規模提高獲利能力。

We continue to enhance our client experience with new technology, with the goal of integrating all Asure solutions on a common modern user interface with leading capabilities. We'll continue to move the ball forward in this area and have several enhancements coming over the next several months.

我們持續利用新技術增強客戶體驗，目標是將所有 Asure 解決方案整合到具有領先功能的通用現代使用者介面上。我們將繼續推動這一領域的發展，並在接下來的幾個月內進行一些改進。

Now, turning over to 2024 guidance, based on our current business trends, we're updating our 2024, revenue guidance to a range of $119 million to $121 million. We now expect adjusted EBITDA margin of between 18% and 19%. We're also giving our initial 2025, revenue guidance of $134 million to $138 million, and adjusted EBITDA margins of between 23% and 24%. The measured margin reflects the value of scaling the business.

現在，轉向 2024 年指導，根據我們當前的業務趨勢，我們將 2024 年收入指導更新為 1.19 億美元至 1.21 億美元。我們目前預計調整後 EBITDA 利潤率在 18% 至 19% 之間。我們也給了 2025 年最初的營收指導，即 1.34 億美元至 1.38 億美元，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率在 23% 至 24% 之間。測得的利潤反映了業務擴展的價值。

Now I would like to hand it off to John to discuss our financial results in more detail. John?

現在我想把它交給約翰來更詳細地討論我們的財務表現。約翰？

Thanks, Pat. As Patrick mentioned at the beginning of this call, several of the financial figures discussed today are given on a non-GAAP or adjusted basis. You will find a description of these GAAP to non-GAAP reconciliations in the earnings release that was made available earlier today. The reconciliations themselves are also included in our most recent investor presentation, posted in the Investor Relations section of our website at investor.asuresoftware.com.

謝謝，帕特。正如帕特里克在本次電話會議開始時所提到的，今天討論的一些財務數據是在非公認會計準則或調整後的基礎上給出的。您可以在今天稍早發布的收益報告中找到這些 GAAP 與非 GAAP 調整的說明。調節表本身也包含在我們最新的投資者簡報中，該簡報發佈在我們網站 Investor.asuresoftware.com 的投資者關係部分。

Now on to the third quarter results. Third quarter revenue was $29.3 million, nearly unchanged relative to prior year as ERTC non-recurring revenue declined by nearly $5 million, which was offset by a $5 million or 20% improvement in recurring revenue. As Pat mentioned, the quality of our revenues improved market relative to prior year, with recurring revenue now representing 98% of the total revenue compared with 81% a year earlier.

現在我們來看看第三季的業績。第三季營收為2,930 萬美元，與上年同期相比幾乎沒有變化，因為ERTC 非經常性收入下降了近500 萬美元，但經常性收入增加了500 萬美元，即20%，抵消了這一下降。正如帕特所提到的，與去年相比，我們的收入品質改善了市場，經常性收入目前佔總收入的 98%，而去年同期為 81%。

Third quarter revenue -- recurring revenue growth was broad-based and led by our recent acquisitions and several significant payroll tax management sales. Net loss for the third quarter was $3.9 million, versus a net loss of $2.2 million during the prior year period.

第三季營收－經常性收入成長基礎廣泛，並由我們最近的收購和幾項重要的薪資稅管理銷售所帶動。第三季淨虧損為 390 萬美元，去年同期淨虧損為 220 萬美元。

Gross margins for the third quarter decreased to 67% from 73% in the prior year. Non-GAAP gross margins for the third quarter decreased to 73% from 76% in the prior year period. We continue to believe there is substantial margin upside over the longer term as business scales.

第三季毛利率從去年同期的 73% 下降至 67%。第三季非 GAAP 毛利率從去年同期的 76% 下降至 73%。我們仍然相信，隨著業務規模的擴大，從長遠來看，利潤率還有很大的上升空間。

EBITDA for the third quarter was $2.2 million, down from $3 million in the prior year period. Adjusted EBITDA for the third quarter decreased to $5.4 million from $6.2 million in the prior year period, and our adjusted EBITDA margin was 19% in the third quarter, compared to 21% in the prior year.

第三季 EBITDA 為 220 萬美元，低於去年同期的 300 萬美元。第三季調整後 EBITDA 從去年同期的 620 萬美元降至 540 萬美元，第三季調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 19%，去年同期為 21%。

Third quarter EBITDA reflects the revenue trend and transition to higher recurring revenue, lower RTC revenue and select investments in the business to support revenue growth. We ended the second quarter with cash and cash equivalents of $11.2 million, and we have debt of $7.5 million.

第三季 EBITDA 反映了收入趨勢以及向更高的經常性收入、更低的 RTC 收入以及對業務的選擇性投資以支持收入成長的轉變。第二季末，我們的現金和現金等價物為 1,120 萬美元，債務為 750 萬美元。

Now in terms of guidance for the fourth quarter 2024. We are guiding the fourth quarter revenues to be in the range of $30 million to $32 million. Adjusted EBITDA for the fourth quarter is anticipated to be between $6 million and $7 million.

現在是 2024 年第四季的指導。我們預計第四季的營收將在 3,000 萬美元至 3,200 萬美元之間。第四季調整後 EBITDA 預計在 600 萬至 700 萬美元之間。

At this time, it appears that the 2024, revenue will fall a bit short of our initial expectations, which is primarily the result of lower revenue from new product introductions and the variability and timing of execution and implementation of a few large enterprise tax deals.

目前看來，2024 年的收入將略低於我們最初的預期，這主要是由於新產品推出帶來的收入下降以及一些大型企業稅收交易的執行和實施的可變性和時間安排的結果。

We closed the quarter with over $67 million in contracted backlog. This represents an over 250% increase from the previous year. We feel we have made important strides in 2024, and have strong momentum as we look forward to 2025. We are providing initial 2025, guidance to be in the range of $134 million to $138 million, with adjusted EBITDA margins of between 23% and 24%.

本季末，我們的合約積壓訂單超過 6,700 萬美元。這比上一年增長了 250% 以上。我們認為我們在 2024 年取得了重要進展，並且在展望 2025 年時勢頭強勁。我們提供的 2025 年初步指引值為 1.34 億至 1.38 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 23% 至 24%。

Our 2025, revenue guidance does not include potential acquisitions, but we do still plan to continue to execute acquisitions in the future.

我們的 2025 年收入指引不包括潛在的收購，但我們仍計劃在未來繼續執行收購。

In summary, we are excited about the opportunities that we have for the balance of 2024, and 2025. The headwinds from ERTC have now faded. And our focus is to continue the growth of the business while creating more shareholder value.

總之，我們對 2024 年和 2025 年剩下的時間所擁有的機會感到興奮。來自 ERTC 的阻力現已消退。我們的重點是繼續業務成長，同時創造更多股東價值。

Before turning the call back over to Pat, as I just referenced, our long-term business model assumes a complement of both organic and inorganic revenue growth. To this end, as the debt markets become more favorable, we are evaluating the use of various forms of debt financing, potentially during 2025. We believe that having options for finance in place as we focus on growing the business is prudent. But we do not intend to over leverage the balance sheet to achieve our objectives.

正如我剛才提到的，在將電話轉回帕特之前，我們的長期業務模式假設有機和無機收入成長相輔相成。為此，隨著債務市場變得更加有利，我們正在評估各種形式的債務融資的使用，可能在 2025 年進行。我們認為，在專注於發展業務的同時提供適當的融資選擇是審慎的做法。但我們並不是打算過度利用資產負債表來實現我們的目標。

I also wanted to mention that after the market closed today, we announced the entering of a sales agreement for an at-the-market or ATM offering, which will augment our existing S3 filing. While we do not have any immediate intention to utilize the ATM, we have established an ATM to give us additional flexibility in the future for funding opportunities should they arise.

我還想提一下，今天收盤後，我們宣布就市場或 ATM 產品簽訂銷售協議，這將擴大我們現有的 S3 備案。雖然我們暫時沒有使用 ATM 的打算，但我們已經建立了 ATM，以便在未來出現融資機會時為我們提供額外的靈活性。

With that, I will turn the call back to Pat for closing remarks.

接下來，我將把電話轉回給帕特，讓他發表結束語。

Thanks, John. We are pleased to report solid performance in the third quarter of 2024. Our ongoing commitment to business growth technology advancements and expanding our product offerings have yielded strong progress in the first nine months of 2024.

謝謝，約翰。我們很高興地報告 2024 年第三季的穩健業績。我們對業務成長、技術進步和擴大產品供應的持續承諾在 2024 年前 9 個月取得了強勁進展。

As we work to create a more unified client experience, Asure Pay will be the latest addition to our product portfolio. It is an innovative online banking alternative delivered through an intuitive mobile app for employees that features things like debit card capability, free ATM withdraws and PayCheck advances plus more.

隨著我們努力創造更統一的客戶體驗，Asure Pay 將成為我們產品組合的最新成員。它是一種創新的線上銀行替代方案，透過直覺的行動應用程式為員工提供，具有借記卡功能、免費 ATM 提款和 PayCheck 預付款等功能。

We have announced multiple solutions over the last few quarters to add to our client experience with products, which will help the small businesses complete background checks, uncumbered tax credits that they may be eligible for, ways to lower health care premiums and through an acquisition we added an (inaudible) attracting technology to our portfolio, which will aid them in the hiring process.

在過去的幾個季度中，我們宣布了多種解決方案，以增加我們的客戶產品體驗，這將幫助小型企業完成背景調查、他們可能有資格獲得的無阻礙稅收抵免、降低醫療保健保費的方法以及透過收購我們在我們的產品組合中添加了一項（聽不清楚）有吸引力的技術，這將有助於他們的招聘過程。

These additions will aid us in attracting potential new clients as well as cross-selling existing clients. We're a relatively young company in the human capital management space, and we're continuing to build out our capabilities as we plan for future growth.

這些新增內容將幫助我們吸引潛在的新客戶以及交叉銷售現有客戶。在人力資本管理領域，我們是一家相對年輕的公司，在規劃未來成長的同時，我們正在繼續增強我們的能力。

In summary, we've delivered another solid performance in Q3 with 20% re-occurring revenue growth, bookings growth of 141%, a strong backlog, which grew over 35% from Q2 and over 250% from Q3 2023. We've executed well on our plans for acquisitions with 12 deals completed over the last 12 months that bring in approximately $15 million in aggregate ARR and our pipeline for future deals remains healthy.

總而言之，我們在第三季度再次取得了穩健的業績，重複收入增長了20%，預訂量增長了141%，積壓訂單強勁，較第二季度增長超過35%，較2023 年第三季度增長超過250 %。我們的收購計劃執行得很好，在過去 12 個月內完成了 12 筆交易，帶來了約 1500 萬美元的總 ARR，並且我們未來交易的管道仍然保持健康。

Re-occurring revenue as a percentage of total revenues in the third quarter was 98%, which increased from 81% in last year's third quarter and shows our ability to grow a high-value revenue stream.

第三季經常性收入佔總收入的百分比為 98%，高於去年第三季的 81%，這表明我們有能力發展高價值收入流。

Our guidance at $134 million to $138 million in revenues for 2025, implies double-digit growth without acquisitions and the headwinds from ERTC have dissipated. We look forward to the exciting opportunities we have the remainder of 2024, and into 2025.

我們對 2025 年收入的指導為 1.34 億至 1.38 億美元，這意味著在不進行收購的情況下實現兩位數增長，並且來自 ERTC 的阻力已經消失。我們期待 2024 年剩餘時間和 2025 年擁有令人興奮的機會。

We will continue to provide innovative human capital management solutions that will help small businesses drive human capital managers, management providers grow their base, and large enterprises streamlined tax compliance. Thank you for listening to our prepared remarks.

我們將持續提供創新的人力資本管理解決方案，幫助小型企業推動人力資本管理者、管理供應商擴大基礎，並協助大型企業簡化稅務合規性。感謝您聆聽我們準備好的發言。

So with that, I'll turn the call back to the operator for the Q&A session. Operator?

因此，我會將電話轉回給接線員進行問答環節。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Joshua Reilly, Needham & Company.

（操作員說明）Joshua Reilly，Needham & Company。

So maybe just starting off, if you look at the lower revenue for the quarter than what was expected at the midpoint of guidance, maybe just some more color on what was different versus your internal plan entering the quarter?

因此，也許剛剛開始，如果您看到本季度的收入低於指導中位數的預期，也許只是更多地說明與進入本季度的內部計劃有何不同？

And as you think about the initial guidance for 2025, that implies about 13% growth at the midpoint. What gives you confidence based on your internal planning, that's the right number given there's going to be a headwind to float income most likely next year?

當你考慮 2025 年的初步指引時，這意味著中點成長率約為 13%。根據您的內部計劃，是什麼給了您信心？

Yeah, Josh, thanks for the questions. First of all, as I think about last year, the big questions were, hey, ERTC [paws], how are you going to ever grow overhead, all that kind of stuff. We laid out a plan. And we think for the most part, we've executed fairly well.

是的，喬什，謝謝你的提問。首先，正如我去年所想的那樣，最大的問題是，嘿，ERTC [爪子]，你將如何增加開銷，諸如此類的事情。我們制定了一個計劃。我們認為在很大程度上，我們執行得相當好。

I think as I look about the third quarter, first of all, we probably modeled in the area 95% re-occurring revenue or repetitive revenue. The difference around that 3% and 98%, 98% is not bad, and it's pretty good. But in a lot of cases, it was timing around some big deals in professional services.

我認為，當我回顧第三季時，首先，我們可能在該領域建模了 95% 的重複收入或重複收入。3%和98%左右的差別，98%還不錯，而且還不錯。但在很多情況下，這是圍繞著專業服務領域的一些大交易進行的。

Over time, that will -- the backlog has grown quite a bit. So it's book-to-bill timing on some of these large deals, professional services had an impact here in the third quarter. And then as I look forward, there's a lot to celebrate.

隨著時間的推移，積壓的訂單將會增加很多。因此，在一些大型交易中，專業服務的訂單到帳單時間對第三季產生了影響。當我展望未來時，有很多值得慶祝的事情。

Sales was up 141%. Backlog is up 250%. I own the timing, and I screwed up. We got to yes on a lot of good deals. It's just they were a little bit delayed in a time frame where we're expecting a ramp. This is not a question of if, it's a question of when. And that probably was a quarter or two early here on some things.

銷售額成長 141%。積壓訂單增加了 250%。我掌握了時機，但我搞砸了。我們在許多優惠交易上都達成了共識。只是他們在我們預期的斜坡時間範圍內有點延遲。這不是是否的問題，而是何時的問題。對於某些事情來說，這可能早了一兩個季度。

That being said, some of the progress we're making around Asure Pay, around 401 k, around some of the rounding out of offerings is very strong. The momentum in the marketplace, 141% sales growth, doesn't happen often. And then it's just the timing of some of these deals where we had modeled in kind of that July, August, then it comes in, in September.

話雖這麼說，我們圍繞 Asure Pay 取得的一些進展（大約 401 k）以及圍繞產品的一些四捨五入的進展非常強勁。市場上 141% 的銷售成長動能並不常見。然後，這只是我們在七月、八月建模的一些交易的時間安排，然後在九月。

Should I have known better? Maybe. And I own that and I'll be better in the future. And when I think about as we had in the fourth quarter last year, I think we were in the [26%] range with $1 million of ERTC. We're guiding to [30, 32]. We're already kind of there. And if you just take implementing sales in the backlog, you get to that 12%, 13% pretty quickly.

我應該更清楚嗎？或許。我擁有這一點，將來我會變得更好。當我考慮去年第四季的情況時，我認為我們的 ERTC 處於 [26%] 範圍內，有 100 萬美元。我們正在引導[30, 32]。我們已經在那裡了。如果你只考慮在待辦事項中實現銷售，你很快就會達到 12%、13%。

So we're pretty confident. Yes, it's a timing pill that we all have to accept. But from a success of the business, it's not a question of if it's a question of when.

所以我們非常有信心。是的，這是我們都必須接受的定時藥丸。但從業務的成功來看，這不是是否成功的問題，而是何時成功的問題。

Got it. That's helpful. And then just maybe following up on the enterprise payroll tax. I've gotten a lot of questions on that over the last quarter. Maybe can you help us understand better like how long is the sales cycle there? How much of that is direct versus through partners? And what's the level of visibility that you feel like you have now that these deals are kind of progressing over the next few quarters?

知道了。這很有幫助。然後也許只是跟進企業薪資稅。上個季度我收到了很多關於這方面的問題。也許您可以幫助我們更好地了解那裡的銷售週期有多長？其中有多少是直接的還是透過合作夥伴提供的？您認為這些交易在未來幾季取得進展的可見度如何？

Yeah. In addition -- thanks, Josh. In addition to John Pence, I have Eyal Goldstein, who is our President, Chief Revenue Officer and is on the point of some of these solutions. But a couple of things.

是的。另外——謝謝，喬許。除了約翰·彭斯之外，我還有埃亞爾·戈爾茨坦（Eyal Goldstein），他是我們的總裁兼首席營收官，他正在討論其中一些解決方案。但有幾件事。

First of all, we do have a couple of different models where we've been successful in the integrated channel is small business, payroll, right? Well, we don't compete, let's say, in the PEO market. And we've announced really solid partner in venture and that's gone very well.

首先，我們確實有幾種不同的模式，我們在小型企業、薪資等綜合管道中取得了成功，對吧？嗯，我們不在 PEO 市場上競爭。我們已經宣布了真正可靠的創投合作夥伴，一切進展順利。

In the large end, we don't compete in the large offering of payroll, but we have some poor competency in tax filing and money movement and tax filing. And we've had a lot of success. And we'll disclose names as we go live and go a little bit further, but we've been very successful.

從長遠來看，我們在提供大量工資方面沒有競爭，但我們在報稅、資金流動和報稅方面的能力較差。我們已經取得了許多成功。我們將在上線時公開姓名，並進一步推進，但我們已經非常成功。

So it's not a one size fits all where our model has been delayed a bit. It's sometimes the contract process we probably have been used to a motion of around 30 to 60 days. In some cases, it's 90 to 120 on the contracting.

因此，這並不是一刀切，我們的模型稍微延遲了一點。有時我們可能已經習慣了 30 到 60 天左右的合約流程。在某些情況下，合約價格為 90 到 120。

And then where we also have done a really nice job of bringing people live within 60 days, if they're already on the current ERP solution. But in some cases, if they're moving to an ERP solution, we're at the whim of maybe an IT integrator, we're at the whim of them first installing the ERP solution and then the tax filing solution. So that's kind of the sense on book-to-bill.

此外，如果人們已經使用目前的 ERP 解決方案，我們也做得非常出色，可以在 60 天內讓人們正常生活。但在某些情況下，如果他們要轉向 ERP 解決方案，我們可能是 IT 整合商的一時興起，我們會先安裝 ERP 解決方案，然後安裝報稅解決方案。這就是訂單到帳單的意義。

And then the other thing is we have integrations with 27 other payroll companies. That's a big number, and that's 27 payroll companies that are bringing us, or will bring us, clients in the future, and they're doing a lot of the selling, et cetera.

另一件事是我們與其他 27 家薪資公司進行了整合。這是一個很大的數字，有 27 家薪資公司正在或將來為我們帶來客戶，他們正在做大量的銷售工作，等等。

So our solution has a lot of legs or early innings. We got a lot of momentum. The timing will get better on, and I'll get better on it. But the good news is a good pipeline, strong implementations that have gone live that are referenceable. And this is more contracting book-to-bill, timing of ERP conversion versus anything else.

所以我們的解決方案有很多回合或早期局。我們獲得了很大的動力。時機會變得更好，我也會做得更好。但好消息是一個好的管道，強大的實施已經上線，可供參考。與其他任何事情相比，這更能縮短訂單到帳單、ERP 轉換的時間表。

I'm going to -- just maybe Eyal, you're on the front end as anything you want to add?

我想要——也許 Eyal，你在前端，有什麼想要添加的嗎？

Yeah. I would say, Josh, the only other thing I would add is it's the combination of direct to enterprise, Fortune 500 opportunities or customers as well as working with some larger system integrators that gives us the opportunity of some of these more one to many where we can do a deal with the integrator and ultimately, all of their clients as they come online, we get credit for and revenue from. So it's a combination of both of those models.

是的。我想說，喬什，我要補充的唯一一件事是，直接面向企業、財富500 強的機會或客戶以及與一些較大的系統集成商合作的結合，為我們提供了其中一些更多一對多的機會我們可以與整合商進行交易，最終，當他們的所有客戶上線時，我們都會獲得信用和收入。所以它是這兩種模型的組合。

Bryan Begin, TD Cowen.

布萊恩·貝京，TD·考恩。

Its actually Jared Levine on for Bryan tonight here. First question here. Can you go over the underlying assumptions to your FY '25 revenue guiding, including what that includes for inorganic based on both planned M&A as well as already announced M&A here in FY '24?

今晚實際上是賈里德·萊文 (Jared Levine) 替補布萊恩 (Bryan) 登場。第一個問題在這裡。您能否回顧一下 25 財年收入指引的基本假設，包括基於計劃中的併購以及已在 24 財年宣布的併購的無機內容？

Yeah, I think the only thing for the '25 guide, we do have one deal that we're anticipating closing this quarter. The rest of the guide does not assume any incremental acquisitions post fourth quarter.

是的，我認為 25 年指南的唯一一件事是，我們確實有一項預計在本季完成的交易。該指南的其餘部分不假設第四季度後有任何增量收購。

What about employment growth, any macro conditions, anything more there to kind of shed light on in terms of those underlying assumptions there for '25?

就業成長、任何宏觀條件以及其他任何可以闡明 25 世紀基本假設的因素又如何呢？

I would say the only big assumption that we've played in is interest rates, right? So rough order of magnitude, we've historically been sitting on approximately $200 million of client funds. The way we look at it about 0.5 point is about, I think, about $1 million a year, so about $250 million a quarter.

我想說，我們所採用的唯一重大假設是利率，對吧？如此粗略的數量級，我們歷史上一直坐擁約 2 億美元的客戶資金。我認為，我們看待 0.5 個百分點的方式大約是每年 100 萬美元，所以每季大約 2.5 億美元。

So we've played into our models approximately like a 3.5% terminal rate from the Fed. So we're looking at roughly between -- and they will have some impact on the marketplace as well just because of the mortgage rates and it's a little bit more complicated.

因此，我們在模型中的運用大約類似於聯準會 3.5% 的最終利率。因此，我們正在大致考慮兩者之間的情況，它們也會對市場產生一些影響，只是因為抵押貸款利率，而且情況有點複雜。

But the gist of it is, I think we have roughly kind of $1 million a quarter, we think of headwind into 2025, per quarter. So to give you some sense, that's one of the probably the key underlying assumptions we put in. I don't think we've modeled anything really differently in terms of employment.

但重點是，我認為我們每季大約有 100 萬美元，我們認為每季到 2025 年都會遇到阻力。因此，為了讓您有所了解，這可能是我們提出的關鍵基本假設之一。我不認為我們在就業方面建立了任何真正不同的模式。

Yeah. If you think about same-store sales, it's relatively flat. I would tell you in small business, the biggest issue is access to people. If I look at a trade association, whether it's plumbers, welders even restaurant tours, they can't get enough people. And we're obviously trying to help them and with our value proposition, access to capital, access to people and compliance. But we've modeled kind of a flat. If we do get some upside, that's great.

是的。如果你考慮同店銷售額，你會發現它相對持平。我想告訴你，在小型企業中，最大的問題是接觸人才。如果我看看行業協會，無論是水管工、焊工，甚至是餐廳旅遊，他們都招不到足夠的人手。顯然，我們正在努力透過我們的價值主張、資本獲取、人員獲取和合規性來幫助他們。但我們已經模擬了一間公寓。如果我們確實能獲得一些好處，那就太好了。

Got it. And then last question here. Can you talk about the drivers of this notable margin expansion you're pointing to for FY '25 here relative to your current FY '24 guide?

知道了。然後是最後一個問題。您能否談談您所指的 25 財年相對於目前 24 財年指南的顯著利潤成長的驅動因素？

Well, just simply put the sales up 141%. The backlog up 250%. Last year at this time, I think we had something like $19 million in backlog. We have $67 million right now. Some of this is just the momentum that we've had.

好吧，就簡單地說銷售額成長了 141%。積壓量增加了250%。去年這個時候，我認為我們的積壓金額約為 1,900 萬美元。我們現在有 6700 萬美元。其中一些只是我們所擁有的動力。

If you think about the first quarter coming off ERTC, we're about 3.5% organic growth. And if you think about kind of where we were at the time, the sales motion pivoting from ERTC with a lot of new products. We had to take some time to train those products and roll those out.

如果您考慮一下 ERTC 的第一季度，我們的有機成長約為 3.5%。如果你想想我們當時的情況，你會發現銷售活動以 ERTC 為中心，推出了許多新產品。我們必須花一些時間來培訓這些產品並推出它們。

One other stat that just if you think about what products we've added here over the last year is, first of all, a common user interface across all employees. We're having a common employer user face that we're rolling out. If you think of (inaudible) per employee per month, our capacity beginning of the year was what I'll call a soft [40] because it was a $40 a month relative.

另一項統計數據表明，如果您考慮我們去年在這裡添加的產品，首先是所有員工的通用使用者介面。我們正在推出一個通用的雇主使用者介面。如果你考慮（聽不清楚）每位員工每個月的產能，我們年初的產能就是我所說的軟 [40]，因為它是每月 40 美元的相對值。

We had some products that were relatively new. We're probably in the neighborhood now of about $165 per employee per month. So if you think about that capability, we've added a Asure Pay that we just announced here in November this month. We've announced the brokerage business, the recruiting product, preventative health, workmen's comp. So we're really rounding off the offering.

我們有一些相對較新的產品。我們現在的水平可能是每位員工每月約 165 美元。因此，如果您考慮一下該功能，我們就添加了本月 11 月剛剛宣布的 Asure Pay。我們已經宣布了經紀業務、招聘產品、預防保健、工人補償等業務。所以我們真的正在完善我們的產品。

And like I said, we're relatively early business that's building out all these capabilities, and we have a lot of momentum. And then the sales backlog bode really well for the future here. And then (inaudible) of ERTC, ERTC now in the fourth quarter, I think we had $1 million contribution. Next year was about $1.5 million that we had this year, we're through that. So a tremendous amount of confidence.

就像我說的，我們是相對較早的企業，正在建立所有這些功能，而且我們有很大的動力。銷售積壓對這裡的未來來說確實是個好兆頭。然後（聽不清楚）ERTC，ERTC 現在在第四季度，我認為我們有 100 萬美元的捐款。明年我們的收入約為 150 萬美元，我們已經度過了。因此充滿了巨大的信心。

Got it. And then, John, real quickly, can you talk about the drivers to margin expansion you're pointing to for FY '25? It looks like a little over 3 points here, so pretty notable. So just be curious on those margin expansion drivers for next year.

知道了。然後，John，很快，您能談談您指出的 25 財年利潤擴張的驅動因素嗎？這裡看起來有點多於 3 點，非常值得注意。因此，請對明年的利潤擴張驅動因素感到好奇。

Yeah. I think we've been pretty consistent just in terms of this being a scale business. With the top line, we don't expect to add a lot of extra cost to service that top line. We feel like a lot of that incremental growth on the top doesn't come with incremental costs, just by the nature of some of these deals.

是的。我認為我們在規模業務方面一直非常一致。對於頂線，我們預計不會增加很多額外的成本來服務該頂線。我們認為，高層的增量成長在很大程度上並不會帶來增量成本，這只是由於其中一些交易的性質所致。

I mean when you sign some of these large tax deals, it doesn't change any rewrite of the code. It's just a lot of really good top line growth without a lot of incremental cost. So I think that's the primary driver. It's just scale. It's the same thing we've been saying all along. We think this business should be, as we start to crest $200 million, that we should at least be at a minimum of 30% bottom line contributor in terms of cash. So I don't think it's anything more than the way station along the way.

我的意思是，當您簽署一些大型稅收協議時，它不會改變程式碼的任何重寫。這只是在沒有大量增量成本的情況下實現了許多非常好的收入成長。所以我認為這是主要驅動力。這只是規模。這也是我們一直在說的。我們認為，當我們開始達到 2 億美元的頂峰時，我們應該至少為這項業務貢獻至少 30% 的現金利潤。所以我認為這只不過是沿途的一個驛站。

Yeah. And maybe just if I could add, 2021, I think we were at 10% non-GAAP EBITDA. This year were 19% or so, 20% last year. Next year in the guide, we're going to increasingly go up. And then if you think about some of the things we just talked about with the -- let's say, the employer kind of user interface and a common employee user interface. If you think about some of the validation tools and AI that we're rolling out, rework is going down quite a bit. The ability to scale operationally has gone down.

是的。也許我可以補充一下，2021 年，我認為我們的非 GAAP EBITDA 為 10%。今年是19%左右，去年是20%。明年在指南中，我們將不斷提高。然後，如果您考慮我們剛才討論的一些事情——比如說，雇主類型的使用者介面和通用員工使用者介面。如果您考慮我們正在推出的一些驗證工具和人工智慧，您會發現返工量大大減少了。營運擴展能力已經下降。

We're able to take out kind of some (inaudible) customer service sets at an increasing pace with some of our technology projects. So all of that is adding up to -- we have really visibility of margin expansion, but we're really early. We think we can do quite a bit more.

我們能夠透過我們的一些技術專案以越來越快的速度拿出一些（聽不清楚）客戶服務集。因此，所有這些加起來，我們確實可以看到利潤率擴張，但我們還處於早期階段。我們認為我們可以做得更多。

Eric Martinuzzi, Lake Street Capital Markets.

馬丁努齊 (Eric Martinuzzi)，湖街資本市場。

Yeah. I wanted to categorize the delta between the old 2024, revs and the new 2024, revs. And by that, I mean the midpoint. So you went from a midpoint guide of $126 million to a midpoint of $120 million. So $6 million in total. We came up short by about $2 million here in Q3 and obviously, that implies $4 million in Q4.

是的。我想對舊的 2024 年轉速和新的 2024 年轉速之間的增量進行分類。我指的是中點。因此，您從 1.26 億美元的中點指南變為 1.2 億美元的中點。總共 600 萬美元。我們在第三季落後了約 200 萬美元，顯然，這意味著第四季有 400 萬美元。

So I'm hoping to put it in three different buckets here. You talked about, number one, lower revenues from new product introduction. Number two, a few large enterprise tax deals that slipped. And then number three, it sounds like pro services. So can you bucketsize that $6 million?

所以我希望把它放在三個不同的桶子裡。您談到第一，新產品推出帶來的收入下降。第二，一些大型企業稅交易下滑。第三，這聽起來像是專業服務。那你能確定那 600 萬美元嗎？

Yeah, I would just -- I'll give you my first point. I think I would tie the pro services to the tax deals themselves because most of that Pro service is going to go with the install timing. So that's where I would then I'll let Pat kind of give you his (inaudible) on those.

是的，我只是──我會給你我的第一點。我想我會將專業服務與稅務交易本身聯繫起來，因為大部分專業服務將與安裝時間相關。所以這就是我要讓帕特給你他的（聽不清楚）的地方。

Yeah, Eric, it's not a perfect science because as we think about it, but I would say just roughly, we're about 3% a quarter more repetitive than we thought we would be. And so if you think about third and fourth quarter, that's about $1.8 million or so.

是的，艾瑞克，這不是一門完美的科學，因為正如我們所思考的那樣，但我粗略地說，我們的重複率比我們想像的要高出四分之一左右。因此，如果您考慮第三季度和第四季度，則約為 180 萬美元左右。

Now whether we end up that perfectly or maybe we get some stuff started, and that $1.8 million almost exclusively is timing of some of the tax deals. And by the way, it's not that we haven't signed them. It's just when we get them started and get people and all that kind of stuff. So 1/3 of, let's say, that $6 billion or 30% is in the PS.

現在，無論我們最終完美地結束，還是我們開始做一些事情，這 180 萬美元幾乎完全是一些稅收交易的時機。順便說一句，我們並不是沒有簽署它們。當我們讓他們開始並招募人員和所有類似的東西。假設 60 億美元中有 1/3 或 30% 屬於 PS。

From timing in general, I would say we're probably roughly 1/3. So if you think about, let's say, [401k], you think about preventative health, if you think of our pay card rollout, in general, some of the new products and the book-to-bill and our client adoption probably is roughly a quarter behind or so. Some of that varies based on those products. So the timing of some of the new products, I would say, probably is another somewhere around $2 million.

從整體時間來看，我想說我們可能大約是 1/3。因此，如果您考慮，比方說，[401k]，您會考慮預防性健康，如果您考慮我們的支付卡推出，一般來說，一些新產品和訂單到賬單以及我們的客戶採用率可能大致是落後四分之一左右。其中一些根據這些產品而有所不同。因此，我想說，一些新產品的上市時間可能是 200 萬美元左右。

We did have kind of a deal we thought we would have on the acquisition front. And that, I think, will not happen or if it does happen, it will be in 2025. So if I look at where the ramp in the guide was, we've overachieved on the sales side, we've overachieved on getting backlog, the timing in a backlog is the other kind of remaining thing, but that's where if I were to look at it, it's about 1/3 in professional services, about 1/3 in the rollout. And then third, about timing. Maybe $1 million or so under one deal with acquisitions, it's probably 2025.

我們確實在收購方面達成了某種我們認為會達成的協議。我認為這不會發生，或者即使發生也將在 2025 年發生。因此，如果我看看指南中的坡道在哪裡，我們在銷售方面取得了超額成績，我們在積壓方面取得了超額成績，積壓的時間是另一種剩餘的事情，但這就是如果我要這樣做的話看看吧，大約1/3在專業服務中，大約1/3在推廣中。第三，關於時機。一筆收購交易的金額可能為 100 萬美元左右，大概是 2025 年。

Okay. And then just a clarification. Was there any ERTC revenue in Q3 of 2024?

好的。然後只是澄清一下。2024 年第三季有 ERTC 收入嗎？

John, I would say it was the (inaudible)

約翰，我會說這是（聽不清楚）

I think we had some, I think it was like $100,000, maybe $150,000 all in.

我想我們有一些，我想總共有 10 萬美元，也許 15 萬美元。

Jeff Van Rhee, Craig Hallum Capital Group.

傑夫‧範‧李 (Jeff Van Rhee)，克雷格‧哈勒姆資本集團。

Just a follow-up on Eric's question there. With respect to the tax deals that push that contributed to this -- meaningfully this $6 million miss, what -- how many tax deals are we talking about?

只是埃里克問題的後續行動。至於推動這一情況的稅收交易——有意義的是，這 600 萬美元的損失，什麼——我們談論的是多少稅收交易？

Well, we have a large integrated deal, where it could be as much as the -- 50 deals, right, or more. And so the timing around some of those moves. So if you think about it, they have different ERP platforms. They have Oracle, SAP, Workday. And without getting too deep into that, we're over time going to be their provider. And so that provider is a kind of a licensed solution plus a professional services component to it. And so that is really kind of probably the biggest area.

嗯，我們有一項大型綜合交易，可能多達 50 筆交易，對吧，或者更多。因此，其中一些舉措的時機也是如此。所以如果你仔細想想，他們有不同的 ERP 平台。他們有 Oracle、SAP、Workday。無需深入探討，隨著時間的推移，我們將成為他們的提供者。因此，該提供者是一種授權解決方案及其專業服務元件。所以這確實可能是最大的領域。

There's been some other deals where there's some one-off bigger deals that they have to implement first on ERP solution, and then they go to tax, and they might have kind of one has Capgemini involved in it. So they have a consulting firm bringing them live once they go live, they go to us. They've moved some of those ERP implementations. But it's probably in the area of 50-plus.

還有一些其他交易，其中有一些一次性的更大交易，他們必須先在 ERP 解決方案上實施，然後他們去納稅，他們可能有凱捷參與其中。因此，他們有一家顧問公司讓他們上線，一旦他們上線，他們就會去找我們。他們已經遷移了其中一些 ERP 實施。但它可能在 50 多的範圍內。

Okay. Okay. That's helpful. And then...

好的。好的。這很有幫助。進而...

And just really quick, Jeff. By the way, there's parts of it that are starting to go live as we speak. So this is truly a timing thing, nothing more and nothing less. And I'll take ownership that I was either too optimistic or didn't do it, I didn't forecast it privately or publicly as well as I should have, but I will tell you. I mean, it's not like we didn't sign it. It's not like we don't have things going really well. It's just the timing of it.

傑夫，速度真的很快。順便說一句，就在我們說話的時候，它的某些部分已經開始上線。所以這確實是時機問題，不多也不少。我會承認我要么太樂觀，要么沒有這樣做，我沒有私下或公開地預測它，但我會告訴你。我的意思是，我們又不是沒有簽字。這並不是說我們的事情進展得不太順利。這只是它的時機。

John, do you have a sense on free cash flow conversion in 2025 on the $32 million EBITDA midpoint?

John，您對 2025 年 3,200 萬美元 EBITDA 中點的自由現金流轉換有何看法？

Yeah. I think just similar type answer that I would give you in '24. I mean our big delta is between the adjusted EBITDA number and the free cash flow, or really software cap, which I don't see changing tremendously. So I think this year, we'll probably be capping about $10 million, right?

是的。我想我會在 24 年給你類似的答案。我的意思是我們的大增量是在調整後的 EBITDA 數字和自由現金流之間，或者說是真正的軟體上限，我認為這不會發生巨大的變化。所以我認為今年我們的上限可能是 1000 萬美元，對嗎？

I think that the other big delta is commissions. And so I believe that we should be kind of in the 20s. We'll be stepping up from where we were this year in terms of free cash flow is a simple answer because I don't think there's a lot of other big delta between the two.

我認為另一個大的增量是佣金。所以我相信我們應該是 20 多歲。就自由現金流而言，我們將比今年有所進步，這是一個簡單的答案，因為我認為兩者之間沒有很多其他大的增量。

The AR bumped up when you really got heavy into the ERTC it's still elevated. Is there a scenario in '25? Do you expect that to come down? Just talk about maybe your thoughts on AR for the year?

當您真正進入 ERTC 時，AR 會升高，但它仍然會升高。25年有劇本嗎？你預計這個數字會下降嗎？談談你今年對 AR 的看法吧？

I hope so. I mean so we -- when they went through the pause of ERTC, it was truly -- not even a pause. It was like a freeze. So I would say between September of last year, kind of September 14 and August of this year, almost no movement really in terms of the IRS letting checks flow.

我希望如此。我的意思是，當他們經歷 ERTC 的暫停時，我們確實甚至沒有暫停。就像凍結了一樣。所以我想說，從去年 9 月，大概是 9 月 14 日到今年 8 月，國稅局在放開支票方面幾乎沒有任何動作。

Early in August, and I would say, in September, we actually starting to kind of see that long jam break. We have visibility through our systems into the IRS. So what we have is like an early warning sign. So there's usually like about a two- or three-week lag between when the IRS says, "Hey, we're going to issue a check", and when they actually cut the check. So we have about a three- to four-week head start when we know the IRS is about to start releasing funds.

八月初，我想說，九月，我們實際上開始看到漫長的果醬休息時間。我們可以透過我們的系統了解 IRS。所以我們所看到的就像是一個預警信號。因此，從國稅局說「嘿，我們要開出一張支票」到他們實際發放支票之間，通常會有大約兩到三週的延遲。因此，當我們知道國稅局即將開始發放資金時，我們有大約三到四個星期的時間。

We've seen early signs of sprouts that we haven't seen for the previous 12 months. So I do believe that if the IRS kind of continues on its current trajectory, that number should come down. Hopefully, it's really is somewhat at their whim as to how quickly they start to kind of unload these things. But I do believe it's coming down. That's the major change in the AR balance that we're still waiting on.

我們已經看到了在過去 12 個月裡從未見過的發芽的早期跡象。所以我確實相信，如果國稅局繼續保持目前的軌跡，這個數字應該會下降。希望他們開始卸載這些東西的速度確實有點取決於他們的心血來潮。但我確實相信它會下降。這是我們仍在等待的 AR 平衡的重大變化。

Okay. And then just two quick last for me. One on the debt side, as you continue to make acquisitions, just what is an acceptable leverage level that you think you would not be comfortable going over?

好的。最後對我來說只有兩個。在債務方面，當您繼續進行收購時，您認為您不願意超過的可接受的槓桿水平是多少？

And then on the sales reps, I know last quarter, you said you were tracking for $130 million by year-end where you end the quarter is $130 million is still the right target?

然後，關於銷售代表，我知道上個季度，您說您在年底前的目標是 1.3 億美元，季度末的 1.3 億美元仍然是正確的目標嗎？

Yeah. So last question first. I believe that is still the right target. I think we're probably in the [115, 120] Eyal can correct me if I'm wrong, in that range at the end of the quarter. And then in terms of leverage, I think we'd probably be comfortable with about 2 times.

是的。首先是最後一個問題。我相信這仍然是正確的目標。我認為我們可能在 [115, 120] 範圍內，如果我錯了，Eyal 可以糾正我，在本季末的這個範圍內。然後就槓桿而言，我認為我們可能會對 2 倍左右感到滿意。

It's probably the max in terms of leverage on the business. And that should be plenty. If we continue to acquire at the current pace, I think that's plenty to cover that. But that's my guess. I mean, Pat, I don't know if you have a different opinion?

就業務槓桿而言，這可能是最大的。這應該就夠了。如果我們繼續以目前的速度收購，我認為這已經足夠了。但這是我的猜測。我的意思是，帕特，不知道你是否有不同的看法？

We're comfortable at that level. We think we have some opportunities to drive. And again, with the expectation that scale will drive margin expansion, we're -- that's our journey.

我們對這個水平感到滿意。我們認為我們有一些開車的機會。再次，我們期望規模將推動利潤率擴張，這就是我們的旅程。

Brad Reback, Stifel.

布拉德雷巴克、斯蒂菲爾。

Pat, appreciate you taking ownership of the miss this quarter. Can you give us a sense what level of cushion you baked into 4Q?

帕特，感謝您對本季的失誤負責。能為我們介紹一下 4Q 的緩衝墊達到什麼等級嗎？

Say that again, Brad, I'm sorry, I just want to make -- you faded out a little bit.

再說一遍，布萊德，我很抱歉，我只是想讓──你淡出一點。

Sure. Can you give us a sense of what level of cushion conservatism you've baked in to the 4Q guidance?

當然。您能否讓我們了解一下您對第四季指引的緩衝保守程度？

Yeah. I mean I think when we look at it, we wanted to make sure that we built a foundation as we look in fourth quarter and 2025, that we had something to build off of. As far as visibility and starting work, we're not betting too much on the contract needed to be signed and then we get it implemented.

是的。我的意思是，我認為當我們審視這個問題時，我們希望確保我們建立了一個基礎，就像我們在第四季度和 2025 年所看到的那樣，我們有一些東西可以建立。就可見性和開始工作而言，我們並沒有過多地押注於需要簽署的合同，然後我們就將其實施。

So we're looking really at the backlog. We're looking at -- we do have one acquisition that we anticipate closing at a strong (inaudible) in it. And then we have revenue that has already started that, let's say, it started for a month in the third quarter, it will roll in the fourth. So that's pretty certain.

所以我們正在真正關注積壓的情況。我們正在考慮——我們確實有一項收購，我們預計將以強勁（聽不清楚）的價格結束。然後我們的收入已經開始，比如說，它從第三季開始一個月，它將在第四季度滾動。所以這是相當肯定的。

So the $30 million to $32 million we feel we should be able to hit and hit nicely. We're not betting on [com]. I think we -- in retrospect, I think one of the things coming out of ERTC last year with a guide as people kind of said, hey, you're coming from a flat start on ERTC. We explained that scale was important and we're going to get there in multiple ways.

因此，我們認為 3,000 萬至 3,200 萬美元應該能夠實現，而且效果不錯。我們不賭[com]。我認為我們——回想起來，我認為去年 ERTC 做出的一件事是有一個指南，就像人們所說的那樣，嘿，你在 ERTC 上的起步很平淡。我們解釋說規模很重要，我們將透過多種方式實現這一目標。

I do think our team has worked. They're bought off this year in getting that and largely executed. It's the timing of it. And so when we set the reset expectations here, fourth quarter and next year, what we want to do is not get ahead of ourselves. And then we took out acquisitions on the guide, which you coach (inaudible) and others -- and now we have an opportunity to just be in a position where we can exceed expectations.

我確實認為我們的團隊已經發揮了作用。他們今年被收買以實現這一目標並大部分被執行。這就是它的時機。因此，當我們在這裡、第四季和明年設定重置預期時，我們想要做的不是超越自己。然後我們在指南上進行了收購，您指導（聽不清楚）和其他人 - 現在我們有機會處於可以超越預期的位置。

And then we also put in a plan, that John referenced that we expect interest rates to go down. So we're thoughtful about some of the minor headwinds that we have as we look at next year and fourth quarter.

然後我們也制定了一項計劃，約翰提到我們預期利率會下降。因此，在展望明年和第四季時，我們會考慮一些較小的阻力。

Great. John, free cash flow conversion has actually been negative through the first nine months, I think, to the tune of $8.5 million. Can you kind of walk through what's going on there and how that reverses?

偉大的。約翰，我認為前 9 個月的自由現金流實際上是負值，達到 850 萬美元。您能介紹一下那裡發生了什麼以及情況如何逆轉嗎？

I think if you're putting in acquisitions, I think that's going to be the key delta to that number. right.

我認為如果你進行收購，我認為這將是該數字的關鍵增量。正確的。

No, I'm only using OCF minus the [cap] software.

不，我只使用 OCF，不含 [cap] 軟體。

You're talking about off the GAAP balance sheet? -- or the -- yes. So I mean, I don't spend a lot of time looking at the balance sheet movements, honestly, because of just -- it's just a timing issue from -- I'm looking more from a bridge to the adjusted EBITDA number in my mind. I'm not really focused on the movements on the balance sheet as much.

你說的是非公認會計準則資產負債表嗎？ ——或者——是的。所以我的意思是，說實話，我並沒有花很多時間研究資產負債表的變動，因為這只是一個時間問題，我更關注的是我的資產負債表中調整後的 EBITDA 數字的橋樑。頭腦。我不太關注資產負債表上的變動。

So I'm happy to kind of spend some time -- I'm happy to help kind of bridge back to you, but I've not spent a lot of time trying to bridge the operating cash flows off the GAAP cash flow.

因此，我很樂意花一些時間 - 我很樂意幫助您與您聯繫，但我並沒有花很多時間嘗試將營運現金流與 GAAP 現金流聯繫起來。

Greg Gibas, Northland Securities.

吉巴斯 (Greg Gibas)，北國證券。

Does your guidance assume that some of those large deals you spoke to on the tax side, that you kind of said we're matter of when, not if. Does guidance for next year, assume those kind of kick in into Q1 or likely later regarding implementation recognition?

您的指導意見是否假設您在稅務方面談到的一些大型交易，您說過我們只是時間問題，而不是是否有問題。明年的指導是否會假設這些內容會在第一季或可能稍後開始實施認可？

I think it's a little bit of both, right? Some of these got signed in the second quarter, some of them got signed in the third quarter of meaning. I mean it's a whole cadre, right? So we have one, for example, that we expected to start in January of '24 that it went live in August. As an example a large steel company, 20,000 employees. We've got -- as Pat mentioned, I think in his prepared remarks, we've got one of the largest grocery store chains that we expect to go live in January.

我認為兩者都有一點，對吧？其中一些是在第二季簽約的，有些是在第三季簽約的。我的意思是，這是一個完整的幹部，對嗎？例如，我們預計將於 24 年 1 月啟動，但在 8 月上線。以一家大型鋼鐵公司為例，有20,000名員工。正如帕特所提到的，我認為在他準備好的演講中，我們擁有最大的雜貨連鎖店之一，預計將於一月份上線。

But some of that's a little bit out of our control. We right now are anticipating that one going live January in 2025. And then as Pat and Eyal referred to, we've got some large integrators that we're working with. We think that some of that is going to go in earnest this quarter. But again, some of it is in our control, some of it's not, we're a little bit at their mercy as to how quickly they can keep pace. So I would say some of it is in this quarter, some of it's into 2025.

但其中一些有點超出我們的控制範圍。我們現在預計該項目將於 2025 年 1 月上線。正如帕特和埃亞爾所提到的，我們正在與一些大型整合商合作。我們認為其中一些將在本季得到認真落實。但同樣，有些在我們的控制範圍內，有些則不是，我們有點受他們的擺佈，不知道他們能多快跟上步伐。所以我想說，有些是在本季度，有些是 2025 年。

Yeah. Some of them, we have a license deal that we get some revenue now, but then we also implement through the four quarters of next year. So some of it is -- the timing is down. Some of it is quarterly over 2025. So it's not a one size fits all. I will say the pipeline is pretty robust. And the sales order metrics are very strong and then the backlog is strong. So it will go throughout 2025.

是的。其中一些，我們有一項授權協議，我們現在可以獲得一些收入，但我們也會在明年的四個季度實施。所以其中一些是——時機已到。其中一些是 2025 年的季度報告。所以它不是一刀切的。我會說管道非常強大。銷售訂單指標非常強勁，積壓訂單也很強勁。所以它將持續到 2025 年。

Okay. Got it. And then I wanted to ask just, I guess, organic growth expectations implicit in your Q4 guidance and maybe for '25 as well? And I guess another way to ask too is the $15 million ARR, how much of that do you expect to recognize this year, or I guess, captured this year? Just trying to get a sense of within your guidance, kind of what's on the organic growth side?

好的。知道了。然後我想問一下，我想，你們第四季指導中隱含的有機成長預期，也許還有 25 年的預期？我想另一種問法是 1500 萬美元的 ARR，您預計今年會確認其中多少，或者我猜今年會捕獲多少？只是想了解您的指導，有機成長的情況如何？

Yeah, I think I'm going to go -- I don't have it in front of me right now, but I think it's roughly high single digits of organic in the fourth quarter. It'll be -- and then the rest of it will be inorganic.

是的，我想我要去——我現在沒有它，但我認為第四季的有機率大約是高個位數。它將是——然後其餘部分將是無機的。

And then as far as acquisition rollover -- as far as acquisition roll over, we probably have somewhere around $6 million so in that area of the $15 million and probably some (inaudible). But the organic growth coming off of it should be probably in the neighborhood without acquisitions, 12%, 13% a quarter throughout '25.

然後就收購展期而言——就收購展期而言，我們可能有大約 600 萬美元，因此在 1500 萬美元的範圍內，可能還有一些（聽不清楚）。但它帶來的有機成長應該在沒有收購的情況下實現，25 年每季成長 12%、13%。

Okay. That's helpful. And I wanted to just kind of touch on the acquisition of Hire Click. Could you kind of discuss the strategy or synergies there and maybe share any valuation metrics of the transaction?

好的。這很有幫助。我想談談收購 Hire Click 的事。您能否討論一下那裡的策略或協同效應，並分享交易的任何估值指標？

Yeah. I think -- and Eyal maybe jump in here too. We have a value proposition for our small businesses that Asure will help them be compliant, whether it's payroll, tax filing as well HR as so they can focus on growing their business.

是的。我想──埃亞爾也許也會加入進來。我們為小型企業制定了一個價值主張，即 Asure 將幫助他們合規，無論是工資單、納稅申報還是人力資源方面，以便他們能夠專注於發展業務。

And then when we talk to small businesses, they want to be compliant because a change in legislation is very difficult. They also want access to capital, and we'll give them either access via 401k pretax program, health programs, tax programs, et cetera, and then access to people.

然後，當我們與小型企業交談時，他們希望遵守規定，因為立法的改變非常困難。他們還希望獲得資本，我們將透過 401k 稅前計劃、醫療計劃、稅收計劃等為他們提供獲得資本的機會，然後再獲得人員。

And within the acquisition of Hire Click, we partner with either local job boards or interface with national job boards where small businesses can stick out. And if they can stick out and hire people that can drive their business forward. So we have really good plans on growing revenue within Hire Click. It's part of our value proposition, part of our bundles, we anticipate that we'll get a lot of momentum.

在收購 Hire Click 的過程中，我們要么與當地就業委員會合作，要么與小型企業可以脫穎而出的國家就業委員會建立聯繫。如果他們能夠堅持下去並僱用能夠推動其業務發展的人才。因此，我們對於增加 Hire Click 的收入有非常好的計劃。這是我們價值主張的一部分，也是我們捆綁包的一部分，我們預期我們將獲得很大的動力。

Eyal, anything want to add?

Eyal，有什麼要補充的嗎？

I would say, Greg, the only other thing I would add there as it relates to the recruiting piece and a key part of our value proposition is we're seeing a consistent theme, and there's data out there around job openings for small business. It's still in that 10-plus percent range.

我想說，格雷格，我要添加的唯一一件事是，因為它與招聘部分有關，而且我們價值主張的關鍵部分是我們看到了一個一致的主題，並且有關於小型企業職位空缺的數據。它仍然在百分之十以上的範圍內。

And so we're -- our customers, both prospects and current customers, are still dealing with -- looking for really good people to hire and consistently looking to fill job openings. So that's still a challenge for Main Street USA and our customer base and our ideal client profile. And so the technology is really critical there to help close that gap.

因此，我們的客戶，無論是潛在客戶還是現有客戶，仍在尋找真正優秀的人才來僱用，並不斷尋找填補職缺的機會。因此，對於 Main Street USA 以及我們的客戶群和我們理想的客戶檔案來說，這仍然是一個挑戰。因此，技術對於幫助縮小這一差距確實至關重要。

And it also plays really nice with our HR compliance services as it relates to creating job requisitions, job descriptions, interviewing skills and hiring new employees as well.

它也非常適合我們的人力資源合規服務，因為它涉及創建職位申請、職位描述、面試技巧和僱用新員工。

Charles Nabhan, Stephens.

查爾斯·納布漢，史蒂芬斯。

Most of my questions have -- just have been asked, but you had cited a multiple of 2.6 times on average for your acquisitions from the past 12 months, if I heard you correctly. Wondering if you could parse that out between the resellers versus what type of multiples you're seeing on ancillary solutions such as Hire Click?

我的大部分問題剛剛被問到，但如果我沒聽錯的話，您在過去 12 個月的收購中平均引用了 2.6 次的倍數。想知道您是否可以解析經銷商之間的情況以及您在 Hire Click 等輔助解決方案中看到的倍數類型？

Yeah. I mean I think from my perspective, I think [2.6] is a really good proxy, right? We've had some outside of the resellers that have been on the high end. And I would say we had one that was really, really -- very, very low end in terms of multiples. So I think it's still pretty much holds true that 2.6 is a good proxy for the overall mix. I don't know, Pat, if you have anything?

是的。我的意思是，從我的角度來看，我認為 [2.6] 是一個非常好的代理，對嗎？我們有一些高端經銷商以外的經銷商。我想說，就倍數而言，我們的產品確實非常非常低端。所以我認為 2.6 仍然是整體組合的一個很好的代表。我不知道，帕特，你有什麼嗎？

No, I think you're spot on. We -- we had a -- the recruiting one probably was a little bit higher multiple. The brokerage business is a little bit lower. The resellers are in that area. We do kind of thoughtful around either a seller note or what have you to take care of indemnification issues.

不，我認為你說得對。我們——我們有一個——招募的倍數可能要高一點。經紀業務稍微低一些。經銷商就在該地區。我們會針對賣家備註或需要您處理的賠償問題進行深思熟慮。

So we're right where we want to be in building out the solution set and as we get scale, obviously, we feel that we're going to grow revenues and EBITDA to have an arbitrage on that 2.6%. And for our perspective, they've done exactly what we wanted to do. And in organizationally, we've been able to implement them, and we think we have a really good foundation for '25.

因此，我們在建立解決方案集方面正處於我們想要的位置，隨著我們規模的擴大，顯然，我們認為我們將增加收入和 EBITDA，從而可以在 2.6% 的基礎上進行套利。從我們的角度來看，他們所做的正是我們想做的事。在組織上，我們已經能夠實施它們，我們認為我們為 25 世紀奠定了非常好的基礎。

Obviously, it's frustrating sometimes with timing. But -- like I said, we're really pleased with what we're doing here. Now we just got to get in the right position where I set the right expectations and the scoreboard shows it.

顯然，有時時間安排會令人沮喪。但是——就像我說的，我們對我們在這裡所做的事情感到非常滿意。現在我們必須處於正確的位置，我設定了正確的期望，記分板也顯示了這一點。

Got it. And as a quick follow-up, I wanted to ask about the competitive environment, specifically what you're seeing from the larger legacy competitors and maybe anything different? Any changes in the competitive landscape down market as well?

知道了。作為快速跟進，我想問一下競爭環境，特別是您從較大的傳統競爭對手那裡看到了什麼，也許有什麼不同？下游市場的競爭格局是否也改變了？

Yeah, I'll let Eyal touch on that.

是的，我會讓埃亞爾談談這一點。

Yeah. We're seeing the consistent theme that we've seen before, right? It's the big guys, ADP and [Paychex] really. We're not -- we're seeing some of the pays come down a little bit. But still, there hasn't been much change from a competitive landscape for us where we're playing in the tax business. There's ADP with their stand-alone tax solution, and that's primarily who we see in that part of the business as well.

是的。我們看到了以前見過的一致主題，對吧？確實是大佬們，ADP 和 [Paychex]。我們沒有——我們看到一些工資略有下降。但我們從事稅務業務的競爭格局仍然沒有太大變化。ADP 擁有獨立的稅務解決方案，這也是我們在這部分業務中看到的主要人員。

Vincent Colicchio, Barrington Research.

文森特·科利奇奧，巴靈頓研究中心。

Yes. Most of mine were answered as well. Pat, how did your bookings break down between new andexisting clients?

是的。我的大部分也得到了答案。帕特，您的新客戶和現有客戶的預訂情況如何？

We're about 70-30, yes. So I would say 70-30 new to existing. What I would say with the amount of -- if you think about what we're trying to roll out, we'd like to almost flip that over time. We think we have that opportunity.

是的，我們大約70-30歲。所以我想說 70-30 個新的到現有的。我想說的是——如果你考慮我們正在嘗試推出的內容，我們希望隨著時間的推移幾乎翻轉它。我們認為我們有這個機會。

Some of it will be almost immediate in those opportunities. And then some of it's going to take through 2025 as we continue to build out technology and have programming sales throughout the product line and almost have [event-driven] kind of sales. So we're working on that stuff, a lot of calories internally are working on that.

其中一些機會幾乎是立竿見影的。其中一些將持續到 2025 年，因為我們將繼續開發技術並在整個產品線中進行程式設計銷售，並且幾乎實現[事件驅動]類型的銷售。所以我們正在研究這個東西，內部有很多卡路里正在研究這個問題。

But what I would say and Eyal's been really thoughtful about how we drive kind of more and more cross-sell opportunities. And then the per employee per month, if you think about our capabilities, let's say, last year was roughly $40 per employee per month. Now we're somewhere in the area of $165. So we have an opportunity to really offer some of those.

但我要說的是，Eyal 對於我們如何推動越來越多的交叉銷售機會非常深思熟慮。然後，如果你考慮我們的能力，那麼去年每位員工每個月的薪水大約是每位員工每月 40 美元。現在我們的價格在 165 美元左右。所以我們有機會真正提供其中一些。

Now, there's a stair-step approach around technology, event-driven marketing, kind of training the sales force, et cetera. So we're middle of the movie there, or maybe really early in the movie. But over time, we'd love to see the 70-30 flip to 30-70.

現在，有一種圍繞著技術、事件驅動的行銷、銷售人員培訓等的階梯式方法。所以我們正處於電影的中間，或者可能是電影的早期。但隨著時間的推移，我們希望看到 70-30 轉變為 30-70。

Now the ability to sell new logos is really a great position for us to be in. We're very pleased with those efforts. So we want -- if I look at flipping the model from 70-30 to 30-70, I don't want to slow down new logos. I just want to increase the wallet share of our current clients

現在，銷售新徽標的能力對我們來說確實是一個很好的位置。我們對這些努力感到非常滿意。所以我們想要——如果我考慮將模型從 70-30 翻轉到 30-70，我不想放慢新標誌的速度。我只是想增加我們現有客戶的錢包份額

Operator, any further questions?

接線員，還有其他問題嗎？

There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to turn it back to management for any closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題。我想將其轉回管理層以供結束語。

Yeah. First of all, thank you. I know sometimes it's disappointing when you have kind of an immediate stock drop, et cetera. I just go back.

是的。首先，謝謝您。我知道有時當庫存立即下跌等情況時會令人失望。我就回去吧。

First of all, I want to thank the 630 employees. They've done a great job with Asure. They carry our banner each and every day. This is not a question of if, it's a question of when, and we're moving in the right direction. If we looked at last year at this time, there were so many questions around ERTC pause, all that stuff. We got through all that noise.

首先，我要感謝630名員工。他們在 Asure 方面做得非常出色。他們每天都高舉我們的旗幟。這不是是否的問題，而是何時的問題，我們正朝著正確的方向前進。如果我們回顧去年的這個時候，我們會發現圍繞 ERTC 暫停的問題有很多，諸如此類。我們克服了所有的噪音。

We went on a journey that said, hey, we're going to replace ERTC revenue, and we did. And if you take a look at what we're doing internally, where sales are up 141%, where backlog is up [250]. When we're rolling out the kind of products we are in rolling out the wallet share, when you think about our technology team that's innovating each and every day, when you think about AI and what our ability to kind of grow margins that we put in 2025.

我們的旅程是這樣的：嘿，我們要取代 ERTC 的收入，我們做到了。如果你看看我們內部所做的事情，銷售額成長了 141%，積壓訂單也增加了[250]。當我們推出這種產品時，當你想到我們每天都在創新的技術團隊時，當你想到人工智慧以及我們增加利潤的能力時，我們正在推出錢包份額2025年。

The only person here that screwed up was me. And I screwed up based on the wrong expectations, but I'll tell you what, we're not for the faint of heart. We're going to grow this business. We're going to grow it profitably, and we're going to do really good things. So I ask for your patience around that. You won't have to wait long, and I appreciate your time today. Thank you.

這裡唯一搞砸的人是我。我因為錯誤的期望而搞砸了，但我告訴你，我們不適合膽小的人。我們將發展這項業務。我們將使其獲利成長，並且我們將做真正的好事。所以我請求你對此保持耐心。您不必等待太久，非常感謝您今天的寶貴時間。謝謝。

This concludes today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

今天的會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與。