Altisource Portfolio Solutions SA (ASPS) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Altisource fourth quarter 2023 earnings conference call.

您好，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 Altisource 2023 年第四季財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) I would now like to hand the conference over to Michelle Esterman, Chief Financial Officer. You may begin.

（操作員指示）我現在想將會議交給財務長 Michelle Esterman。你可以開始了。

Thank you, operator. We first want to remind you that the earnings release Form 10-K and quarterly slides are available on our website at www.altisource.com. These provide additional information investors may find useful.

謝謝你，接線生。首先我們想提醒您，收益發布表 10-K 和季度投影片可在我們的網站 www.altisource.com 上取得。這些提供了投資者可能認為有用的額外資訊。

Our remarks today include forward-looking statements, which involve a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ. In addition to the usual uncertainty associated with forward-looking statements, the continuing impacts of government and service or responses to the COVID-19 pandemic, governmental fiscal policies, and current economic conditions make it extremely difficult to predict the future state of the economy and the industry in which we operate, as well as the potential impact on Altisource.

我們今天的言論包括前瞻性陳述，其中涉及許多風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果有所不同。除了與前瞻性陳述相關的通常的不確定性之外，政府和服務或對 COVID-19 大流行的反應、政府財政政策和當前經濟狀況的持續影響使得預測未來經濟狀況和我們經營的行業，以及對Altisource 的潛在影響。

Please review the forward-looking statements sections in the company's earnings release and quarterly slides as well as the risk factors contained in our 2023 Form 10-K describing some factors that may lead to different results. We undertake no obligation to update statements, financial scenarios, and projections previously provided or provided herein as a result of a change in circumstances, new information, or future events.

請查看公司收益發布和季度幻燈片中的前瞻性陳述部分，以及我們 2023 年 10-K 表格中包含的風險因素，其中描述了可能導致不同結果的一些因素。我們不承擔因情況、新資訊或未來事件的變更而更新之前或本文中提供的報表、財務情景和預測的義務。

During this call, we will present both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. In our earnings release and quarterly slides, you will find additional disclosures regarding the non-GAAP measures. A reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP measures is included in the appendix to the quarterly slides.

在本次電話會議中，我們將介紹 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標。在我們的收益發布和季度幻燈片中，您會發現有關非公認會計原則措施的其他揭露。季度投影片的附錄包含了 GAAP 與非 GAAP 指標的調整表。

Joining me for today's call is Bill Shepro, our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. I will now turn the call over to Bill.

與我一起參加今天電話會議的是我們的董事長兼執行長 Bill Shepro。我現在將把電話轉給比爾。

Thanks, Michelle, and good morning. I'll begin on slides 4 and 5. We're pleased with our performance in 2023 as we continue to strengthen our financial position and win new business, which has not fully ramped. In the face of serious market headwinds for both business segments, service revenue in the servicer and real estate segment was only 4% lower than 2022 and service revenue in the origination segment outperformed the overall market with a decline of 11% compared to a 36% decline in industry wide residential origination volume.

謝謝，米歇爾，早安。我將從投影片 4 和 5 開始。我們對 2023 年的業績感到滿意，因為我們將繼續加強我們的財務狀況並贏得尚未完全成長的新業務。面對兩個業務板塊都面臨的嚴重市場逆風，服務商和房地產板塊的服務收入僅比2022年下降4%，而起源板塊的服務收入表現優於整體市場，下降了11%，而2022年下降了36%全行業住宅開發量下降。

We improved total company adjusted EBITDA by $15.7 million compared to 2022 and by $30.8 million compared to 2021. Our 2023 total company adjusted EBITDA improvement is largely from product mix, higher margins in our businesses, and lower corporate operating costs. The 2023 adjusted EBITDA margins in the business segments improved by 680 basis points to 25.1%, and the corporate segment's adjusted EBITDA loss declined by 18.4% to $35.1 million.

與2022 年相比，我們公司調整後EBITDA 總額提高了1570 萬美元，與2021 年相比提高了3080 萬美元。我們2023 年公司調整後EBITDA 總額的改善主要來自產品組合、更高的業務利潤率和更低的企業營運成本。 2023 年業務部門調整後 EBITDA 利潤率提高了 680 個基點，達到 25.1%，企業部門調整後 EBITDA 虧損下降 18.4%，達到 3,510 萬美元。

Company-wide, we generated positive adjusted EBITDA for five of the last six months of 2023, including $520,000 in December. We are off to a good start in 2024 generating $900,000 of adjusted EBITDA in January. During 2023, we won new business, strengthen our sales pipeline, and took steps to improve our balance sheet. I'll discuss our wins and sales pipeline in greater detail in a few minutes.

在全公司範圍內，我們在 2023 年最後 6 個月中有 5 個月實現了正調整 EBITDA，其中 12 月為 520,000 美元。我們在 2024 年取得了良好的開端，一月調整後 EBITDA 達到 90 萬美元。 2023 年，我們贏得了新業務，加強了銷售管道，並採取措施改善了資產負債表。我將在幾分鐘內更詳細地討論我們的勝利和銷售管道。

With respect to the balance sheet, we reduced the principal balance of our term loan by $23.1 million or 9.4% and extended the maturity date of our term loan and revolver to April 2025, with the option to extend both by another year, subject to meeting certain conditions.

在資產負債表方面，我們將定期貸款本金餘額減少了2,310 萬美元，即9.4%，並將定期貸款和循環貸款的到期日延長至2025 年4 月，並可選擇將兩者延長一年，但須經會議同意一定條件下。

Turning to slide 6 and our 2024 forecast, we believe our sales wins, enhanced margins, and lower corporate costs position us for strong revenue and adjusted EBITDA growth. Based upon our current expectations for the market in which we operate, which assumes only a modest benefit from the post-COVID increase in foreclosure starts and 17% growth in industry wide and origination volume, we are forecasting $155 million to $180 million in service revenue and $17.5 million to $22.5 million in adjusted EBITDA.

轉向幻燈片 6 和我們 2024 年的預測，我們相信我們的銷售勝利、利潤率提高和企業成本降低使我們能夠實現強勁的收入和調整後的 EBITDA 成長。根據我們目前對我們所在市場的預期（假設新冠疫情后取消抵押品贖回權的開工量增加以及整個行業和發起量增長17%）只會帶來適度的收益，我們預計服務收入將達到1.55 億至1.8 億美元調整後 EBITDA 為 1,750 萬至 2,250 萬美元。

This represents 13% to 32% service revenue growth and an $18.4 million to $23.4 million improvement in adjusted EBITDA over 2023. We are forecasting that the service revenue growth will be driven by the continued ramping of our 2023 sales wins, 2024 sales wins, and price increases for certain services. We anticipate that the 2024 adjusted EBITDA improvement will be driven by, one, revenue growth; two, higher business unit margins, primarily from the full year benefit of 2023 cost savings and efficiency initiatives, price increases and scale; and three, lower corporate operating costs from the full year benefit of 2023 cost savings and efficiency initiatives.

這意味著服務收入比 2023 年增長 13% 至 32%，調整後 EBITDA 提高 1840 萬美元至 2340 萬美元。我們預測，服務收入增長將由我們 2023 年銷售勝利、2024 年銷售勝利和某些服務的價格上漲。我們預計 2024 年調整後 EBITDA 的改善將由以下因素驅動：一是營收成長；二、更高的業務部門利潤率，主要來自2023年全年的成本節約和效率舉措、價格上漲和規模效益；第三，2023 年全年成本節約和效率措施將降低企業營運成本。

While it is still early in the year, we are off to a good start in January with adjusted EBITDA of $900,000. As we look beyond 2024, we anticipate that our businesses will also benefit from the ramp up sales wins, continued recovery of the default market, and normalized origination volumes.

雖然現在還處於今年年初，但我們在一月份已經有了一個良好的開端，調整後的 EBITDA 為 900,000 美元。展望 2024 年以後，我們預計我們的業務也將受益於銷售量的增加、預設市場的持續復甦以及正常化的發行量。

Slide 7 provides a summary of our 2024 strategic initiatives. As you can see, we established four initiatives to support long-term growth. First, accelerate business development efforts on solutions where we believe Altisource is a strong performer, generates high margins, and where we forecast market tailwinds. Several of our businesses generate strong margins and we believe are in high demand as servicers prepare for a rise in delinquencies and originators look to improve their profitability. We plan to focus our business development efforts on these offerings.

投影片 7 總結了我們 2024 年的策略舉措。正如您所看到的，我們制定了四項措施來支持長期成長。首先，加快解決方案的業務開發工作，我們認為 Altisource 表現強勁，利潤率高，我們預測市場順風順水。我們的一些業務產生了強勁的利潤率，我們相信，隨著服務商為拖欠率上升做好準備，而發起者希望提高其盈利能力，這些業務的需求量很大。我們計劃將業務發展重點集中在這些產品上。

Second, deliver strong operational efficiency and manage costs to drive higher gross profit and adjusted EBITDA margins. We plan to continue to evaluate and implement processes to streamline operations and reduce costs in those businesses and corporate departments that we believe will generate the greatest impact on profitability and performance.

其次，提供強大的營運效率並管理成本，以提高毛利和調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率。我們計劃繼續評估和實施流程，以簡化業務和公司部門的運作並降低成本，我們相信這些流程將對獲利能力和績效產生最大的影響。

Third, strengthen customer relationships and cross-sell other solutions to existing customers to gain wallet share. We have hundreds of revenue-generating customers. We believe that there is a significant opportunity to grow business with our existing customer base through strong performance and cross-selling other solutions.

第三，加強客戶關係並向現有客戶交叉銷售其他解決方案以獲得錢包份額。我們有數百個創收客戶。我們相信，透過強勁的業績和交叉銷售其他解決方案，我們存在與現有客戶群發展業務的重大機會。

Fourth, launch new offerings intended to help Lenders One members improve their profitability. We believe that there's a significant opportunity to improve Lenders One members' profitability and grow our revenue and earnings by launching new solutions that leverage the Lenders One members' collective buying power.

第四，推出旨在幫助 Lenders One 成員提高獲利能力的新產品。我們相信，透過推出利用 Lenders One 成員集體購買力的新解決方案，有很大機會提高 Lenders One 成員的盈利能力並增加我們的收入和收益。

Moving to slide 8 in our countercyclical service or real estate segment, the 2023 service revenue declined by 4%, which reflects growth in certain higher margin businesses that support the earlier stage of the default process, offset by modestly lower service revenue from the fourth quarter of 2022 exit of a low margin employee outsource business and fewer referrals in our lower margin field services business.

在我們的反週期服務或房地產領域，滑至第8 位，2023 年服務收入下降了4%，這反映出支持違約流程早期階段的某些利潤率較高的業務的增長，但被第四季度服務收入小幅下降所抵銷到 2022 年，我們將退出低利潤員工外包業務，並減少我們低利潤現場服務業務的推薦。

We improved the service and real estate segment's adjusted EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA margins. 2023 adjusted EBITDA of $37.1 million was $5.9 million or 18.8% higher than 2022. And adjusted EBITDA margins improved to 34.4% from 27.9%. Adjusted EBITDA growth and margin improvement reflect product mix and benefits from cost reduction and efficiency initiatives, partially offset by modestly lower service revenue.

我們提高了服務和房地產部門的調整後 EBITDA 和調整後 EBITDA 利潤率。 2023 年調整後 EBITDA 為 3,710 萬美元，比 2022 年增加 590 萬美元，即 18.8%。調整後 EBITDA 利潤率從 27.9% 提高至 34.4%。調整後的 EBITDA 成長和利潤率改善反映了產品組合以及成本削減和效率舉措帶來的收益，但部分被服務收入小幅下降所抵消。

Slide 9 provides a summary of our servicer and real estate sales wins and pipeline. For the year, we won new business that we estimate will generate $58.4 million in annual revenue on a stabilized basis over the next couple of years. We had a couple of significant sales wins in the fourth quarter. The first win was signing agreements to provide renovation services for one of the larger owners of our REO assets. We anticipate that we will start to receive the first renovation referrals toward the end of the first quarter and ramp as the year progresses.

投影片 9 總結了我們的服務商和房地產銷售成果及通路。今年，我們贏得了新業務，預計未來幾年將穩定地產生 5,840 萬美元的年收入。我們在第四季度取得了幾項重大的銷售勝利。第一個勝利是簽署協議，為我們 REO 資產的較大所有者之一提供翻新服務。我們預計，我們將在第一季末開始收到第一批裝修推薦，並隨著今年的進展而增加。

The second win was an expansion of wallet share with an existing customer in our higher-margin trustee business. We started to receive an increase in referrals in January and anticipate referral volumes to grow steadily through the summer.

第二個勝利是在我們利潤率較高的受託業務中擴大了與現有客戶的錢包份額。我們從一月開始收到的推薦量有所增加，並預計整個夏季推薦量將穩定成長。

We ended the year with a total weighted average sales pipeline of $30.1 million of annual revenue on a stabilized basis, most of which will impact 2025 and beyond. There are a few larger late-stage opportunities in the pipeline worth noting. We are currently negotiating an agreement to provide REO auction services for a loan servicer and their real estate agents. We're also discussing market share expansion with one of our REO asset management customers.

截至今年底，我們的加權平均銷售管道總額為 3,010 萬美元，年收入穩定，其中大部分將影響 2025 年及以後。管道中有一些較大的後期機會值得注意。我們目前正在談判一項協議，為貸款服務商及其房地產經紀人提供 REO 拍賣服務。我們也正在與我們的一位 REO 資產管理客戶討論擴大市場份額。

And finally, we are negotiating agreements to provide trustee services for a couple of nonbank loan servicers. We hope to have more to report on these exciting opportunities with our first-quarter earnings call.

最後，我們正在談判為幾家非銀行貸款服務機構提供受託人服務的協議。我們希望在第一季的財報電話會議上有更多關於這些令人興奮的機會的報告。

For 2024, we anticipate that our servicer and real estate segment service revenue and adjusted EBITDA will improve considerably compared to 2023 from the continued ramp of 2023 sales wins, conversion of sales wins to revenue, price increases for certain services, and the full-year benefit of 2023 cost savings and efficiency initiatives. Our Hubzu and later stage REO offerings forecast assumes only a modest benefit from the post-COVID increase in foreclosure starts.

對於2024 年，我們預計，由於2023 年銷售勝利的持續增長、銷售勝利轉化為收入、某些服務的價格上漲以及全年銷售收入的持續增長，我們的服務商和房地產部門的服務收入和調整後EBITDA 將比 2023 年大幅改善。2023 年成本節約和效率措施的好處。我們的 Hubzu 和後期 REO 產品預測假設，新冠疫情后取消抵押品贖回權開工的增加只會帶來適度的好處。

Turning to the macroeconomic environment in slide 10, there are early signs of consumer financial stress, which could be precursors to a rise in 90-plus day mortgage delinquency rates. Consumer savings have declined. Debt is growing. Early-stage delinquency rates are rising. And home affordability ended 2023 at a near a 10-year low. Credit card debt is at record high. Balances on home equity lines of credit have grown for seven consecutive quarters. 401k hardship withdrawals continue to grow. And early-stage auto and credit card delinquencies continue to rise.

轉向幻燈片 10 中的宏觀經濟環境，消費者財務壓力出現了早期跡象，這可能是 90 多天抵押貸款拖欠率上升的先兆。消費者儲蓄下降。債務正在增長。早期拖欠率正在上升。到 2023 年底，住房負擔能力接近 10 年來的最低點。信用卡債務創歷史新高。房屋淨值信貸額度餘額連續七個季度增長。 401k 困難提款持續成長。早期汽車和信用卡拖欠率持續上升。

According to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, credit card and auto loans that are becoming delinquent are rising above pre-pandemic levels, signaling increased financial stress. Early-stage mortgage delinquency rates are also rising. Comparing December '23 to December '22, 15% more mortgages are delinquent by one payment and 16% more mortgages are behind by two payments.

紐約聯邦儲備銀行表示，信用卡和汽車貸款拖欠率已超過疫情前的水平，顯示財務壓力增加。早期抵押貸款拖欠率也在上升。與23年12月和22年12月相比，拖欠一筆付款的抵押貸款增加了15%，拖欠兩次付款的抵押貸款增加了16%。

Moving to our origination segment in slide 11, our origination segment performed well in a difficult origination environment. Despite the 36% decline in industry-wide residential origination volumes in 2023 compared to 2022, the originations segment outperformed the market with a revenue decline of only 11% and an adjusted EBITDA improvement of $1.9 million. This reflects revenue growth in the Lenders One business from customer wins from our newer solutions, partially offset by revenue declines in our other origination businesses that were impacted to a greater degree by lower origination volumes.

轉到投影片 11 中的起始部分，我們的起始部分在困難的起始環境中表現良好。儘管與 2022 年相比，2023 年全行業住宅開發量下降了 36%，但開發領域的表現優於市場，收入僅下降 11%，調整後 EBITDA 提高 190 萬美元。這反映了 Lenders One 業務的收入成長來自於我們較新的解決方案贏得的客戶，但部分被我們其他發起業務的收入下降所抵消，這些業務在很大程度上受到發起量下降的影響。

Adjusted EBITDA improved from cost savings and efficiency initiatives. For 2023, the origination segment's gross profit, gross profit margins, adjusted EBITDA, and adjusted EBITDA margins all improved relative to 2022.

調整後的 EBITDA 因成本節約和效率措施而有所改善。 2023年，起始部門的毛利、毛利率、調整後 EBITDA 和調整後 EBITDA 利潤率均較 2022 年有所改善。

Slide 12 provides a summary of our originations segment sales wins and pipeline. During a very difficult origination market, our focus on helping our Lenders One members save money and better compete, drove substantial interest in our solutions. On an annualized stabilized basis, we won an estimated $10.3 million in new business for the year. Our weighted average sales pipeline at the end of 2023 was $18 million, with $4 million of the $18 million in the contracting stage.

投影片 12 總結了我們的原創細分市場銷售成果和管道。在非常困難的發起市場中，我們專注於幫助 Lenders One 會員省錢並更好地競爭，這激發了人們對我們的解決方案的濃厚興趣。按年化穩定計算，我們今年贏得了估計 1,030 萬美元的新業務。截至 2023 年底，我們的加權平均銷售管道為 1,800 萬美元，其中 1,800 萬美元中有 400 萬美元處於承包階段。

For 2024, we anticipate our origination segment service revenue to outperform the forecasted 17% increase in industry-wide origination volume and adjusted EBITDA to improve considerably compared to 2023. This is from sales momentum in our Lenders One business, the full year benefit of 2023 cost savings and efficiency initiatives, January '24 price increases for certain of our services, and the launch of new solutions that help Lenders One members improve their profitability.

對於2024 年，我們預計我們的發起部門服務收入將超過全行業發起量17% 的成長預測，調整後的EBITDA 與2023 年相比將大幅改善。這是來自我們Lenders One 業務的銷售勢頭，即2023年全年收益成本節約和效率舉措、24 年 1 月我們某些服務的價格上漲，以及推出新的解決方案來幫助 Lenders One 成員提高盈利能力。

On the new solution front, we are planning a soft launch of Lenders One homeowners insurance in the first quarter. Through this program, we will work with an insurance technology partner in over 40 insurance carriers across 50 states to provide Lenders One members borrowers with access to competitively priced homeowners insurance. We believe the regular launch of new solutions to Lenders One members combined with greater adoption of our existing solutions will strengthen our value proposition for Lenders One members and supports further revenue and earnings growth in our originations segment.

在新的解決方案方面，我們計劃在第一季試行推出 Lenders One 房屋保險。透過該計劃，我們將與 50 個州 40 多家保險公司的保險技術合作夥伴合作，為 Lenders One 成員借款人提供價格具有競爭力的房屋保險。我們相信，定期向Lenders One 會員推出新解決方案，再加上更多地採用我們現有的解決方案，將加強我們對Lenders One 會員的價值主張，並支持我們的發起部門的進一步收入和盈利增長。

Turning to our corporate segment in slide 13, we continue to bring down our operating costs. 2023 adjusted EBITDA loss of $35.1 million was $7.9 million or 18% better than 2022. The lower adjusted EBITDA loss reflects our cost savings and efficiency initiatives. For 2024, we anticipate adjusted EBITDA loss to improve compared to 2023 from the full year benefit of 2023 cost savings and efficiency initiatives.

轉向投影片 13 中的企業部門，我們持續降低營運成本。 2023 年調整後 EBITDA 損失為 3,510 萬美元，比 2022 年減少 790 萬美元，即 18%。調整後 EBITDA 損失較低反映了我們的成本節約和效率措施。對於 2024 年，我們預計，由於 2023 年成本節約和效率舉措的全年效益，調整後 EBITDA 損失將比 2023 年有所改善。

Moving to Slide 14, the environment over the last few years created a perfect storm for Altisource. The default market was virtually shut down in 2020 and has still not fully recovered. More recently, there has been a dramatic increase in interest rates, significantly reducing mortgage origination volumes and increasing our corporate interest expense.

前往投影片 14，過去幾年的環境為 Altisource 創造了一場完美風暴。違約市場在2020年幾乎處於關閉狀態，至今仍未完全恢復。最近，利率急劇上升，顯著減少了抵押貸款發放量並增加了我們的企業利息支出。

While these events negatively impacted service revenue in both our business segments, the servicer and real estate segment, businesses that primarily support earlier stage foreclosure activities grew and the origination segment outperformed with 36% decline in origination volume. Even still, we improved adjusted EBITDA by more than $30 million over the last two years.

雖然這些事件對我們兩個業務部門（服務商和房地產部門）的服務收入產生了負面影響，但主要支持早期止贖活動的業務有所增長，而發起業務部門表現出色，發起數量下降了36% 。儘管如此，過去兩年我們調整後的 EBITDA 仍提高了超過 3000 萬美元。

Additionally, we won meaningful new business that should continue to ramp in 2024 and have a strong sales pipeline to support growth in 2025 and beyond. As a result, we believe we are positioned to achieve 13% to 32% service revenue growth and adjusted EBITDA of between $17.5 million and $22.5 million in 2024. When the default market returns to normal and interest rates decline, we should benefit from stronger revenue and adjusted EBITDA growth and lower corporate interest expense.

此外，我們還贏得了有意義的新業務，這些業務將在 2024 年繼續成長，並擁有強大的銷售管道來支援 2025 年及以後的成長。因此，我們相信，到2024 年，我們的服務收入將實現13% 至32% 的成長，調整後的EBITDA 為1750 萬美元至2,250 萬美元。當違約市場恢復正常且利率下降時，我們應該會受益於更強勁的收入調整後的 EBITDA 成長和較低的企業利息支出。

I'll now open up the call for questions. Operator.

我現在開始提問。操作員。

(Operator Instructions) Raj Sharma, B. Riley.

（操作員說明）Raj Sharma、B. Riley。

Yeah. Thank you for taking the question and great on providing guidance for the first time in several years. Bill, could you talk about the some of the new products that were launched on the Lenders One origination side, specially the credit reporting and give more color on that and how that's kind of doing in the first half of the year -- in the beginning of the year?

是的。感謝您提出問題，並感謝您多年來首次提供指導。比爾，您能否談談 Lenders One 發起人推出的一些新產品，特別是信用報告，並對此進行更多說明，以及今年上半年一開始的情況如何如何在今年？

Hey, thanks, Raj, and good morning. It's interesting. On the credit reporting business, we became a credit reporting agency in 2021 and went live with our first customer in January of 2022. And since then, we've grown the business to 30 customers. And I think last month we did roughly $900,000 of revenue in that -- between the credit reporting business and the related white label services. And I think we're on track probably by March -- if not March, then April to be over $1 million a month run rate. So I think that's a very good example of how we can take a new product, launch it, roll it out to our members and generate $1 million a month in revenue or $12 million a year of annual revenue.

嘿，謝謝拉傑，早安。這真有趣。在信用報告業務方面，我們於 2021 年成為信用報告機構，並於 2022 年 1 月與我們的第一個客戶上線。從那時起，我們已將業務發展到 30 個客戶。我認為上個月我們在信用報告業務和相關白標服務之間的收入約為 90 萬美元。我認為我們可能會在 3 月份達到每月 100 萬美元以上的運行率，如果不是 3 月份，那麼 4 月份也是如此。所以我認為這是一個很好的例子，說明我們如何採用新產品，推出它，向我們的會員推廣，並每月產生 100 萬美元的收入或每年 1200 萬美元的收入。

And so the whole strategy around Lenders One in our origination business is to continue to work with our members to understand what their needs are, what their pain points are, and then we leverage their buying power to launch new programs to help them make more money and better compete. And so an example, which I talked about in my prepared remarks, is a homeowner's insurance. So we're working with a Insurtech company and launching this quarter a program to help our members and their loan officers and their borrowers efficiently and with less friction get quotes for homeowners insurance.

因此，在我們的發起業務中，圍繞Lenders One 的整個策略是繼續與我們的會員合作，了解他們的需求是什麼、他們的痛點是什麼，然後我們利用他們的購買力推出新計劃，幫助他們賺更多錢並更好地競爭。我在準備好的發言中談到的一個例子是房屋保險。因此，我們正在與保險科技公司合作，並在本季度推出一項計劃，幫助我們的會員及其信貸員和借款人高效、減少摩擦地獲得房屋保險報價。

So we're pretty excited about that program. It's still early. What we like about that business is we earn a commission on every policy that's originated and then that creates an annuity where that to the extent those borrowers renew the policy, we earn ongoing commission revenue in subsequent years.

所以我們對該計劃感到非常興奮。現在還早。我們喜歡這項業務的地方在於，我們對每項發起的保單賺取佣金，然後創建年金，只要藉款人續訂保單，我們就可以在隨後的幾年中獲得持續的佣金收入。

Another product we're in the process of launching is a flood insurance program or Lenders One flood insurance. And here again, we're working with a partner to offer our members a cost-effective flood insurance policy. And again, the whole strategy is launch it, gain adoption that gives us a stronger buying power that ultimately helps reduce our costs and provide the stronger pricing to our members, which increases the adoption and increases the profitability of the members and our profitability. So we're pretty excited around the launch of these new programs, and we're optimistic that these and couple of new programs we launch each year can contribute to future revenue and earnings growth.

我們正在推出的另一個產品是洪水保險計劃或 Lenders One 洪水保險。我們再次與合作夥伴合作，為我們的會員提供具有成本效益的洪水保險。再說一遍，整個策略是啟動它，獲得採用，這給我們帶來了更強大的購買力，最終有助於降低我們的成本，並為我們的會員提供更強勁的定價，這增加了採用率並提高了會員的獲利能力和我們的獲利能力。因此，我們對這些新計劃的推出感到非常興奮，並且我們樂觀地認為，這些以及我們每年推出的幾個新計劃可以為未來的收入和盈利增長做出貢獻。

Great. Thank you. And then moving on to the default services segment part of the business. With the slower conversion into REOs, the indications -- or you started or you have been focusing more on the earlier part of the foreclosure, the pre-foreclosure process, is that accurate?

偉大的。謝謝。然後轉向業務的預設服務部分。隨著轉換為 REO 的速度變慢，跡象 - 或者您開始或您一直更多地關注取消抵押品贖回權的早期部分，即取消抵押品贖回前的過程，這是準確的嗎？

Yeah. So Raj, what we're seeing is any of the early-stage delinquencies, as I pointed out on our call, look like they're starting to pick up, and clearly, foreclosure initiations have picked up substantially from the time of the pandemic, although not quite back at the levels they were at prior to the pandemic. What we haven't seen yet is that those early 2022 foreclosures make it all the way to the end. And so what we're doing now and what we're working on with our customers, existing and new customers, is focusing on those early-stage activities where we are seeing a pretty good lift in referral volumes.

是的。所以，拉傑，正如我在電話中指出的那樣，我們看到的是任何早期的拖欠行為，看起來它們都開始增加，而且顯然，自大流行以來，取消抵押品贖回權的啟動已經大幅增加，儘管尚未完全恢復到大流行之前的水平。我們還沒有看到的是，2022 年初的那些喪失抵押品贖回權的房屋會持續到最後。因此，我們現在正在做的事情以及我們與客戶（包括現有客戶和新客戶）所做的工作，重點是那些早期階段的活動，我們在這些活動中看到了推薦量的大幅提升。

So just to give you an example, in the fourth quarter, in our trustee business and our foreclosure title search business, we saw about a 30% increase in referral volumes compared to the fourth quarter of the prior year. And that trend is continuing in the first quarter of this year. So what we're doing from a sales perspective is focusing a lot on those earlier stage activities where there is an increase in referral volumes and the guidance we gave doesn't assumes we're going to get a lift in some of those earlier stage activities or we're only assuming a very modest lift at the end.

舉個例子，在第四季度，在我們的受託人業務和止贖權搜尋業務中，我們發現推薦量與去年第四季相比增加了約 30%。這種趨勢在今年第一季仍在持續。因此，從銷售角度來看，我們正在做的事情是專注於那些推薦量增加的早期活動，而我們給出的指導並不假設我們會在其中一些早期階段獲得提升活動，或者我們只假設最後會有非常適度的提升。

So as the market continues to get back to normal and your inflows and outflows stabilize, there is some upside, we think, to what we're forecasting. But because we're not seeing that increase or that conversion rate increase at the end yet, we're trying to be more conservative in terms of how we're approaching our guidance.

因此，隨著市場繼續恢復正常，資金流入和流出趨於穩定，我們認為，我們的預測有一些上行空間。但由於我們最終還沒有看到這種成長或轉換率的成長，因此我們試圖在如何接近我們的指導方面更加保守。

Got it. Thanks. And then just last question for me, on the fiscal '24 guidance, can you talk about -- perhaps guide to the cadence of -- is there a slight rise in foreclosure activities? Is the guidance largely back half loaded?

知道了。謝謝。然後是我的最後一個問題，關於 24 財年的指導，您能否談談——也許是節奏的指導——取消抵押品贖回權活動是否略有增加？指南是否大部分已加載一半？

Yeah, so I think you're going to see that -- look, from a revenue perspective, I think in the first quarter March, it was a -- for a variety of reasons, is a tough comp for us. But January and February, I think our revenue, Michelle, correct me if I'm wrong, was roughly 8%, 9% higher service revenue than the same time last year and better than every month last year, other than March, our revenue in both January and February.

是的，所以我認為你會看到——看，從收入的角度來看，我認為在三月第一季度，出於多種原因，這對我們來說是一個艱難的競爭。但1 月和2 月，我認為我們的收入，米歇爾，如果我錯了，請糾正我，服務收入比去年同期高出大約8%、9%，並且比去年每個月都好，除了3 月份，我們的收入一月和二月。

So I think we're off to a good start from a revenue perspective. I talked about our EBITDA being $900,000 in the month of January. We think February is going to continue to be strong. So Raj, to answer your question, I think you're going to see the revenue as we ramp. The good news is we've largely won the customers that support our revenue growth for the year. And it's all about the timing for how we ramp those customers, how they onboard and ramp throughout the year. So we feel -- and that's why there's a range in our revenue forecast because it's all about -- it's either wins that we already have signed a contract or we've gotten a verbal commitment that are in those numbers largely -- that are in those numbers. And as we ramp throughout the year, we would expect that revenue to grow and our EBITDA to grow.

因此，我認為從收入角度來看，我們有了一個好的開始。我談到我們 1 月份的 EBITDA 為 900,000 美元。我們認為二月將持續強勁。 Raj，回答你的問題，我認為隨著我們的成長，你會看到收入。好消息是我們在很大程度上贏得了支持我們今年收入成長的客戶。這一切都與我們如何增加這些客戶的時機、他們如何在全年中加入和增加有關。所以我們覺得——這就是為什麼我們的收入預測有一個範圍，因為這一切都是——要么我們已經簽署了合同，要么我們已經得到了口頭承諾，這些數字很大程度上是——那些數字。隨著我們全年的成長，我們預計收入將會成長，我們的 EBITDA 也會成長。

So I think I would look to, Michelle, correct me if I'm wrong, first quarter, I think, because of March will be a tough comp from a revenue side, but we'll be pretty close to revenue -- service revenue last year. EBITDA will be better in the first quarter than last year. And we would expect our EBITDA and revenue to grow as the year progresses as we ramp these customers that we've already won and where we've gotten a verbal commitment.

所以我想，米歇爾，如果我錯了，請糾正我，我認為第一季度，因為從收入方面來看，三月將是一個艱難的競爭，但我們將非常接近收入——服務收入去年。第一季的 EBITDA 將好於去年。我們預計我們的 EBITDA 和收入將隨著時間的推移而增長，因為我們已經贏得了這些客戶，我們已經得到了口頭承諾。

Great. Thank you for answering my questions. I'll take it offline. Thanks.

偉大的。感謝您回答我的問題。我會把它離線。謝謝。

Thanks, Raj.

謝謝，拉吉。

(Operator Instructions) Mike Grondahl, Northland.

（操作員說明）Mike Grondahl，Northland。

Hey, Bill. Good morning. How would you describe your outlook for Hubzu inventory over the course of '24.

嘿，比爾。早安.您如何描述 2024 年 Hubzu 庫存的前景？

Hey, Michelle, [we couldn't] jump in as well. So I think, Mike, we're being very -- we're trying to be conservative on Hubzu inventory. So I think we're focusing a lot on what we can control and what we can control around a lot of these sale wins and the earlier stage foreclosure starts. We're making really, really good progress. And we think that's going to drive pretty significant revenue and EBITDA growth.

嘿，米歇爾，[我們也不能]加入。所以我認為，麥克，我們正在努力對 Hubzu 庫存保持保守。因此，我認為我們將重點放在我們可以控制的事情以及我們可以圍繞這些銷售勝利和早期取消抵押品贖回權開始控制的事情上。我們正在取得非常非常好的進展。我們認為這將推動相當可觀的營收和 EBITDA 成長。

We're being more cautious on Hubzu because until we actually see that conversion rate from a foreclosure start all the way to the end, getting back to the pre-pandemic levels, we want to be more modest in our projections. Michelle, I don't have inventory in front of me -- projection, but I think it's a very modest growth in inventory, Mike, is my recollection.

我們對 Hubzu 更加謹慎，因為在我們真正看到取消抵押品贖回權的轉換率從開始到結束，回到疫情前的水平之前，我們希望在預測中更加謹慎。米歇爾，我面前沒有庫存——預測，但據我回憶，麥克，我認為庫存成長非常溫和。

Got it. And slide 9 lays out a bunch of wins in the dollar amount, but as it's been for a while, revenue from those wins really lag. Is '24 and '25 kind of the years that the growth in revenue catches up to those strong sales wins? How do we just think about yet conversion?

知道了。幻燈片 9 列出了一系列以美元金額計的勝利，但正如一段時間以來，這些勝利帶來的收入確實滯後。 '24 和 '25 是營收成長趕上銷售強勁成長的年份嗎？我們如何看待轉換？

So the bottom line, it just takes time from when you win to when you ramp. Of course, things can happen and customers could go out of business, they could increase market share, decrease market share. So a lot can happen with these wins and we leave it as a static, but there's a -- in the $58.4 million, Mike, there's a couple of larger wins. This new REO renovation, a business we won, that's got massive potential for us and we haven't launched it yet. So that's going to launch. We think we're going to get our first referrals, hopefully, in the next week or two, and that's got the potential to become very, very significant from a revenue perspective.

所以最重要的是，從你獲勝到你進步只是需要時間。當然，事情可能會發生，客戶可能會倒閉，他們可能會增加市場份額，也可能會減少市場份額。因此，這些勝利可能會發生很多事情，我們將其保留為靜態，但麥克，在 5840 萬美元中，有幾個更大的勝利。這項新的 REO 改造是我們贏得的一項業務，對我們來說具有巨大的潛力，但我們尚未啟動它。那麼這就要啟動了。我們認為我們將在接下來的一兩週內獲得第一批推薦，從收入的角度來看，這有可能變得非常非常重要。

We launched a new construction lending program in our Granite business. That's been ramping as the year progressed last year, but we're nowhere near the stabilized from a revenue perspective. Michelle, help me out here. Our REO win that we got our first referral, I think, in September, we issued a press release around that win. I mean, it takes-- we're getting an attractive number of referrals. It takes time for those referrals ultimately to get to an REO sale and generate revenue. But it's ramping quite nicely.

我們在花崗岩業務中推出了新的建築貸款計劃。隨著去年的進展，這一數字一直在上升，但從收入的角度來看，我們還遠遠沒有達到穩定。米歇爾，幫我一下。我們的 REO 勝利是我們得到了第一次推薦，我想，在 9 月份，我們圍繞該勝利發布了一份新聞稿。我的意思是，我們需要獲得大量有吸引力的推薦。這些推薦最終需要時間才能進行 REO 銷售並產生收入。但它的成長相當不錯。

And as we planned, we are expecting as the year progresses to get more market share from that customer as well. So the bottom line, Mike, is it just takes time from these wins to actually generating revenue and earnings, but they're very -- they're household names. They're very attractive wins. And we believe the margins are strong in those -- associated with that revenue. And we're going to continue to ramp it this year and next.

正如我們計劃的那樣，我們預計隨著時間的推移，我們也能從該客戶那裡獲得更多的市場份額。所以，麥克，最重要的是，從這些勝利到真正產生收入和收益只是需要時間，但它們是家喻戶曉的名字。他們是非常有吸引力的勝利。我們相信，與收入相關的這些領域的利潤率很高。今年和明年我們將繼續加強。

Got it. Got it. And then lastly, any milestone related to the debt this year to remind us about or -- not that any amounts due or anything, but just like any milestones you need to reach during '24 for the debt?

知道了。知道了。最後，有任何與今年債務相關的里程碑提醒我們——不是任何到期金額或任何東西，而是就像您在 24 年間需要達到的債務里程碑一樣？

Yeah. No. Look, I think we've made really strong progress in a very, very tough environment. As I talked about in the prepared remarks, you had both the pandemic impact to the default market and the higher interest rates impacting the origination market, a bit of a perfect storm. And even during this difficult time, we've improved our EBIT over the last couple of years by over $30 million. And we're forecasting going to $21 million, $22 million improvement this year.

是的。不，我認為我們在非常非常艱難的環境中取得了巨大的進步。正如我在準備好的演講中談到的那樣，疫情對違約市場的影響以及較高的利率對原始市場的影響，有點完美風暴。即使在這個困難時期，過去幾年我們的息稅前利潤也提高了超過 3000 萬美元。我們預計今年將增加 2,100 萬美元、2,200 萬美元。

So I think we're going in the right direction in terms of getting back to a strong margin, strong EBITDA. The costs are in line. And as we continue to make progress in our growth, our plans are to ultimately refinance the debt.

因此，我認為我們正在朝著正確的方向前進，以恢復強勁的利潤率和強勁的 EBITDA。成本是一致的。隨著我們繼續在成長方面取得進展，我們的計劃是最終為債務再融資。

So right now, we've got time. The debt matures in April '25, but we have an automatic rate subject to some conditions around the extension fee and complying with reps and warrants another year. And so we feel good about our position. We got to continue to grow our adjusted EBITDA and put the company in a position to refi the debt and hopefully reduce our interest expense.

所以現在，我們有時間。債務將於 25 年 4 月到期，但我們有自動利率，但須遵守有關延期費的一些條件，並遵守另一年的代表和保證。因此，我們對自己的處境感到滿意。我們必須繼續增加調整後的 EBITDA，使公司能夠重新償還債務，並有望減少我們的利息支出。

Got it. Hey, thank you.

知道了。嘿，謝謝你。

Thanks, Mike.

謝謝，麥克。

(Operator Instructions) I'm showing no further questions in the queue. I would now like to turn the call back over to Bill for closing remarks.

（操作員說明）我在隊列中沒有顯示任何其他問題。我現在想將電話轉回給比爾，讓他發表結束語。

Great. Thank you, operator. We're pleased with our financial performance and sales wins in 2023 and believe it sets us up really well for this year. Thanks for joining.

偉大的。謝謝你，接線生。我們對 2023 年的財務表現和銷售業績感到滿意，並相信這為我們今年的發展奠定了良好的基礎。感謝您的加入。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。