Air Products and Chemicals Inc (APD) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to Air Products' third-quarter earnings release conference call. Today's call is being recorded at the request of Air Products. Please note that this presentation and the comments made on behalf of Air Products are subject to copyright by Air Products and all rights are reserved.

早安，歡迎參加空氣產品公司第三季財報發布電話會議。應空氣產品公司的要求，今天的通話是錄音的。請注意，本簡報和代表空氣產品公司發表的評論均受空氣產品公司版權保護，並保留所有權利。

Beginning today's call is Mr. Eric Guter. Please go ahead.

今天的電話會議由 Eric Guter 先生主持。請繼續。

Thank you. Welcome, everyone, to Air Products third-quarter 2025 earnings teleconference. This is Eric Guter, Vice President of Investor Relations. Joining me today are Eduardo Menezes, our Chief Executive Officer; and Melissa Schaeffer, our Chief Financial Officer. After our comments, we will be pleased to answer your questions. Our earnings release and slides for this call are available on our website at investors.airproducts.com.

謝謝。歡迎大家參加空氣產品公司 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。我是投資者關係副總裁 Eric Guter。今天與我一起的還有我們的執行長 Eduardo Menezes 和我們的財務長 Melissa Schaeffer。在我們提出意見後，我們將很樂意回答您的問題。本次電話會議的收益報告和投影片可在我們的網站 investors.airproducts.com 上查閱。

Today's discussion contains forward-looking statements, including those about earnings and capital expenditure guidance, business outlook, and investment opportunities. Please refer to the cautionary note regarding forward-looking statements provided in our earnings release and on slide number 2. Additionally, throughout today's discussion, we will refer to various financial measures including earnings per share, operating income, operating margin, EBITDA, the effective tax rate, and ROCE either on a total company or segment basis.

今天的討論包含前瞻性陳述，包括有關盈利和資本支出指導、業務展望和投資機會的陳述。請參閱我們的收益報告和投影片 2 中提供的有關前瞻性陳述的警告說明。此外，在今天的討論中，我們將參考各種財務指標，包括每股收益、營業收入、營業利潤率、EBITDA、有效稅率和 ROCE，無論是基於整個公司還是基於部門。

Unless we specifically state otherwise, statements regarding these measures refer to our adjusted non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations of these measures to our most directly comparable GAAP financial measures can be found on our investor website in the relevant Earnings section -- Earnings Release section.

除非我們另有明確說明，有關這些指標的聲明均指我們調整後的非公認會計準則財務指標。這些指標與我們最直接可比較的 GAAP 財務指標的對帳可以在我們投資者網站的相關收益部分中找到—收益發布部分。

Now I'm pleased to turn the call over to Eduardo.

現在我很高興將電話轉給愛德華多。

Thank you, Eric. This is Eduardo Menezes. Thank you for joining us. Please turn to slide 3. The Air Products team delivered solid fiscal third quarter results. Our adjusted earnings per share of $3.09 exceeded our guidance and were higher than last year on a comparable basis excluding the impact of the LNG business sale.

謝謝你，埃里克。這是愛德華多·梅內塞斯。感謝您加入我們。請翻到幻燈片 3。空氣產品公司團隊在第三季取得了穩健的財務表現。我們的調整後每股收益為 3.09 美元，超出了我們的預期，並且高於去年同期的可比收益（不包括液化天然氣業務出售的影響）。

We saw positive base business results despite significant global heating headwinds and continue to see positive cost savings across the organization from our productivity actions. Air Products has a solid core industrial gas business with significant potential. The results this quarter shows the strength and resilience of our base business. I'm confident we can continue to improve margins and unlock value through systematic cost productivity, pricing and operational excellence.

儘管全球暖化面臨巨大阻力，我們仍看到了積極的基礎業務成果，並且透過我們的生產力行動，我們繼續看到整個組織的成本節約。空氣產品公司擁有堅實的核心工業氣體業務，具有巨大的潛力。本季的業績顯示了我們基礎業務的實力和韌性。我相信，我們可以透過系統的成本生產力、定價和卓越的營運繼續提高利潤率並釋放價值。

Let me share some examples of how we are executing our productivity commitments. We continue to review and optimize our portfolio. The previously announced global cost reduction plan remains on track and will generate significant savings. Once all actions under the plan are fully executed, we expect to realize annual savings of $185 million to $195 million.

讓我分享一些我們如何履行生產力承諾的例子。我們將繼續審查和優化我們的投資組合。先前宣布的全球成本削減計劃仍在按計劃進行，並將帶來顯著的節約。一旦該計劃下的所有行動全面實施，我們預計每年可節省 1.85 億至 1.95 億美元。

Air Products has the lowest SG&A as a percentage of sales in the industry, and we are continuing to improve on this metric. We are investing to bring additional AI and digital transformation tools to the majority of our employees for use into their day-to-day work. I expect the combination of the Air grassroots projects and large ongoing AI corporate initiatives in areas like energy management will significantly change the way we work and open many new productivity opportunities for Air Products.

空氣產品公司的銷售、一般及行政費用佔銷售額的比例是業界最低的，我們正在持續提高這項指標。我們正在投資為大多數員工提供更多的人工智慧和數位轉型工具，以供他們在日常工作中使用。我預計，空氣基層專案與能源管理等領域正在進行的大型人工智慧企業計劃的結合將顯著改變我們的工作方式，並為空氣產品公司開闢許多新的生產力機會。

We are committed to project execution and capital discipline. We expect to finalize the current energy transition projects in line with our previous guidance and to continue investing in growth to build density in our core industrial gas business. We intend to take full advantage of our leading on-site positions in hydrogen and electronics, always through disciplined capital allocation.

我們致力於專案執行和資本紀律。我們希望按照先前的指導完成目前的能源轉型項目，並繼續投資成長以提高我們核心工業氣體業務的密度。我們打算充分利用我們在氫能和電子領域的領先現場地位，始終透過嚴格的資本配置。

Now please turn to slide 4. We presented this slide for the first time last quarter, and I thought it would be helpful to talk about it one more time. This is Air Products five-year road map to unlock our earnings potential. We have a strong team running the core business, and I'm confident all our leaders are personally committed to take Air Products to this journey.

現在請翻到幻燈片 4。我們上個季度第一次展示了這張投影片，我認為再討論一次會很有幫助。這是空氣產品公司釋放獲利潛力的五年路線圖。我們擁有一支強大的團隊來經營核心業務，我相信我們所有的領導者都會親自致力於帶領空氣產品公司走上這一徵。

Our objective for the next five years is starting in fiscal year 2026 is to consistently achieve high single-digit or better adjusted EPS growth rate, while maintaining or reducing our financial leverage. By doing that and maintaining the capital discipline I mentioned a few times during this presentation, we should achieve operating margins of 30% and ROCE in the mid- to high-teens by 2030.

我們未來五年的目標是從 2026 財年開始持續實現高個位數或更好的調整後每股盈餘成長率，同時保持或降低我們的財務槓桿。透過這樣做並維持我在本次演講中多次提到的資本紀律，到 2030 年，我們應該能夠實現 30% 的營業利潤率和中高水平的 ROCE。

Now I will turn it over to Melissa to discuss our quarter results. Melissa?

現在我將把時間交給梅麗莎來討論我們的季度業績。梅麗莎？

Thank you, Eduardo, and good morning, everyone. Please turn to slide 6 to review our results. Our third quarter adjusted earnings per share of $3.09 exceeded the upper end of our guidance of $2.90 to $3. Compared to last year, sales volume was down 4%, mainly due to the sale of the LNG business last year, lower helium demand and project exits, while partially offset by favorable on-site across the region.

謝謝你，愛德華多，大家早安。請翻到投影片 6 查看我們的結果。我們第三季調整後的每股收益為 3.09 美元，超過了我們預期的 2.90 美元至 3 美元的上限。與去年相比，銷售量下降了 4%，主要原因是去年液化天然氣業務的出售、氦氣需求的下降以及項目退出，但被整個地區有利的現場情況部分抵消。

The sale of the LNG business drove volume lower 2%. Total company price was up 1%, which equates to a 2% improvement for the Merchant business. Adjusted operating income was unchanged as strong base business performance, including continued pricing strength in non-helium products across all regions, was largely offset by the sale of the LNG business and exited projects. Adjusted operating margin was flat but improved about 300 basis points sequentially due to favorable volume and productivity improvements.

液化天然氣業務的出售導致銷量下降2%。公司總價上漲了 1%，相當於商家業務提高了 2%。調整後的營業收入保持不變，因為強勁的基礎業務表現（包括所有地區非氦氣產品的持續價格強勢）在很大程度上被液化天然氣業務的出售和退出項目所抵消。調整後的營業利潤率持平，但由於銷量和生產力的提高，環比提高了約 300 個基點。

Now please to turn to slide 7 for the details of our third quarter earnings per share. Third quarter adjusted earnings per share of $3.09 decreased $0.11 from prior year. This was negatively impacted by $0.14 from the sale of the LNG business and $0.12 impact from project exits. Without these headwinds, EPS would have improved $0.15 versus prior year.

現在請翻到投影片 7 查看我們第三季每股收益的詳細資訊。第三季調整後每股收益為 3.09 美元，較前一年減少 0.11 美元。這受到出售液化天然氣業務 0.14 美元和項目退出 0.12 美元的負面影響。如果沒有這些不利因素，每股收益將比上年提高 0.15 美元。

Volume added $0.06, benefitting from strong on-site volumes. This volume growth was partially offset by lower helium demand and project exits in the Americas. Price was positive $0.05, driven by strong non-helium pricing actions across all regions.

受惠於現場交易量強勁，交易量增加 0.06 美元。這一產量成長被美洲氦氣需求下降和專案退出部分抵消。受各地區非氦氣定價行動強勁推動，價格上漲 0.05 美元。

Costs were $0.03 favorable due to productivity and lower maintenance, partially offset by higher depreciation and inflation. The tax rate this quarter was $0.05 unfavorable compared to last year, which benefit from several onetime items. Interest expense was $0.02 higher, as project exits reduced the interest eligible for capitalization.

由於生產力提高和維護成本降低，成本降低了 0.03 美元，但折舊和通貨膨脹率上升部分抵消了這一影響。本季的稅率與去年相比低了 0.05 美元，這得益於幾項一次性項目。利息支出增加了 0.02 美元，因為專案退出減少了可資本化的利息。

Now please turn to slide number 8 for an update of our fiscal 2025 guidance. Our fiscal full year adjusted earnings per share guidance is now in the range of $11.90 to $12.10, keeping the midpoint unchanged at $12. We remain cautious in our outlook, recognizing the significant economic uncertainties around the world. Our guidance for capital expenditures stays at approximately $5 billion for the year. We've included additional details on the segment results in the appendix section.

現在請翻到第 8 張投影片，了解我們 2025 財年指引的最新情況。我們預計全年調整後每股收益將在 11.90 美元至 12.10 美元之間，中間值保持不變，為 12 美元。我們對前景保持謹慎，並意識到全球存在重大經濟不確定性。我們對今年資本支出的預期仍為約 50 億美元。我們在附錄部分提供了有關細分結果的更多詳細資訊。

Now we will turn the call over for questions. Operator?

現在我們將轉入提問環節。操作員？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

John Roberts, Mizuho.

瑞穗的約翰羅伯茲。

Thank you. Could you give us an update on the plan to use third parties at Darrow for both ammonia and the carbon capture and sequestration?

謝謝。您能否向我們介紹一下在 Darrow 利用第三方進行氨和碳捕獲與封存的計劃的最新進展？

Hi, John, this is Eduardo. Good morning. Yeah, we -- as we said last quarter, we are working to get these partnerships done by the end of the current year. So we're still working on that. So three months later, I would say that we're reasonably optimistic we'll get there. I've seen some reports this quarter for other blue ammonia projects in the Gulf Coast.

你好，約翰，我是愛德華多。早安.是的，正如我們上個季度所說，我們正在努力在今年年底前完成這些合作。所以我們仍在努力。因此三個月後，我會說我們相當樂觀地認為我們會實現目標。本季我看到了有關墨西哥灣沿岸其他藍氨計畫的一些報告。

And if you look at these reports, you look at the amount of -- the numbers that we published in terms of CapEx for the size of the plants they are publishing, our numbers, I believe, we are a little better in terms of unit of CapEx for capacity.

如果你看一下這些報告，你會看到我們發布的與他們所發布的工廠規模相關的資本支出數字，我相信，就產能資本支出單位而言，我們的數字會更好一些。

And we expect to do that because we have a larger scale. So I think that validates the numbers that we presented in terms of the competitiveness of our project in terms of CapEx. And I also saw a report about comparing the cost of blue ammonia in the Gulf Coast with gray ammonia in Europe also, verifying the point that we're making that the US will be very competitive.

由於我們的規模更大，因此我們希望做到這一點。因此，我認為這驗證了我們在資本支出方面項目競爭力所提供的數字。我還看到一份關於墨西哥灣沿岸藍色氨與歐洲灰色氨成本比較的報告，證實了我們的觀點，即美國將非常具有競爭力。

So the fundamentals of the project remains very strong. And now it's a question of finding the right partnership, finding the right agreements, and negotiating these agreements will which will take a little time. So that's where we are. We have a dedicated team working on that. I'm participating personally in a lot of these meetings. And when we have more information that we can share with you, we'll do that.

因此，該項目的基本面仍然非常強勁。現在的問題是找到正確的合作夥伴關係、找到正確的協議，並協商這些協議，這將需要一點時間。這就是我們現在的狀況。我們有一個專門的團隊致力於此事。我親自參加了很多這樣的會議。當我們有更多可以與您分享的資訊時，我們就會這樣做。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jeff Zekauskas, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Jeff Zekauskas。

Thanks very much. A two-part question. Your average prices year over year were up 1%. If you took out the drag from helium, how much would your average prices have been up?

非常感謝。這個問題由兩個部分組成。你們的平均價格較去年同期上漲了 1%。如果去除氦氣的阻力，平均價格會上漲多少？

And then secondly, the -- in the past, Air Products used to say that it could dissociate hydrogen from ammonia with a 10% loss, is that a claim that Air Products still wants to make or is the dissociation characteristics different? And do you have to build an infrastructure in Europe in order to fulfill the Total contract in 2030?

其次，過去，空氣產品公司曾表示，它可以將氫從氨中分離出來，損失率為 10%，這是空氣產品公司仍然想要做出的說法嗎，還是說分離特性有所不同？為了在 2030 年履行道達爾合同，是否必須在歐洲建設基礎設施？

Okay, Jeff, the first question, I'll ask Melissa to talk about that. We normally don't disclose helium numbers, but we can probably give you an idea of the total impact for the year for us in terms of helium.

好的，傑夫，第一個問題，我會請梅麗莎來談談。我們通常不會透露氦氣的數量，但我們可以讓您了解氦氣對我們一年的整體影響。

On the second question, yeah, the disassociation, we are working in our R&D organization and engineering, designing these plants. At this point, if and when we go forward with any project in Europe to dissociate ammonia, the idea is to use products on technology for that.

關於第二個問題，是的，關於分離，我們正在我們的研發組織和工程部門工作，設計這些工廠。目前，如果我們在歐洲推進任何分離氨的項目，我們的想法是使用技術產品來實現這一目標。

And at this point, I believe that we still have the same goal in terms of yield that you mentioned on 10% losses. It's always a question of capital inefficiency on how much you want to invest to improve your efficiency, and that's exactly where we are, but we are testing a lot of different catalysts and different configurations and trying to be ready to execute these projects when the volumes become more firm.

就目前而言，我相信我們在收益方面的目標仍然與您提到的 10% 的損失相同。這始終是一個資本效率低下的問題，取決於你願意投資多少來提高效率，而這正是我們所處的境地，但我們正在測試許多不同的催化劑和不同的配置，並試圖在交易量變得更加穩定時準備好執行這些項目。

As I mentioned before, all these projects in Europe, they are a function of the final regulation. The EU has its own umbrella regulation, let's put this way, that each EU member has to develop and adapt this or they call it transposed to law. This is a little late and supposed to be done a few months ago, but there are several drafts in several jurisdictions where they present what they are trying to do with the EU legislation.

正如我之前提到的，歐洲的所有這些項目都是最終法規的功能。歐盟有自己的總體法規，可以這麼說，每個歐盟成員國都必須制定和調整該法規，或稱之為轉化為法律。這有點晚了，應該在幾個月前就完成，但幾個司法管轄區已經提出了幾份草案，其中介紹了他們試圖利用歐盟立法做什麼。

And we and our potential customers and Total, we are all following this these regulations to decide where we should build this project. So that's where we are on the ammonia dissociation side, and I'll turn to Melissa to talk about the helium impact.

我們和我們的潛在客戶以及道達爾都遵循這些規定來決定在哪裡建造這個專案。這就是我們在氨解離方面的研究成果，我將請梅莉莎來談談氦氣的影響。

Sure. Thanks, Eduardo. Thanks for the question, Jeff. So volume and price do continue to fall across the regions. Let me talk about helium as a whole instead of pricing for obvious reasons. So as an order of magnitude for the quarter, helium EPS contributions are down about 4% versus prior year.

當然。謝謝，愛德華多。謝謝你的提問，傑夫。因此，各地區的產量和價格確實持續下降。出於顯而易見的原因，我將從整體上談論氦氣，而不是談論定價。因此，作為本季的數量級，氦氣每股收益貢獻與去年相比下降了約 4%。

For the full year, we're anticipating around a $0.55 to $0.60 headwind from EPS, which again is about 4% to 5%. So obviously, the teams are actively working to balance pricing and volumes to maximize profitability during this down cycle, but it does continue to be a headwind.

就全年而言，我們預計每股盈餘將面臨 0.55 美元至 0.60 美元的阻力，這又約為 4% 至 5%。因此，顯然，團隊正在積極努力平衡價格和銷量，以在此下行週期中實現盈利能力最大化，但這確實仍然是一個阻力。

Thank you.

謝謝。

John McNulty, BMO Capital Markets.

蒙特利爾銀行資本市場 (BMO Capital Markets) 的 John McNulty。

Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. Maybe digging in a little bit more into the -- I believe you said it was $175 million to $185 million cost opportunities. I guess, two questions around that. One, is that in addition to the $100 million opportunity that you would -- that Air Products had previously outlined and expected to come in a bit this year and a bit next year?

早安.感謝您回答我的問題。也許深入挖掘一下——我相信您說的是，這是一個 1.75 億到 1.85 億美元成本機會。我想，圍繞這一點有兩個問題。第一，除了您之前概述的 1 億美元機會之外——空氣產品公司預計今年和明年會有一些回報嗎？

And then can you speak to the heavy lifting of it? It sounds like a lot of it is going to be around digital and energy management and how long or how much effort is this going to take to -- is it just kind of a simple drop in or is there some real heavy lifting here?

那麼你能談談它的艱鉅性嗎？聽起來很多內容都與數位和能源管理有關，這需要多長時間或多少努力才能實現——這只是一種簡單的插入還是需要一些真正的繁重工作？

Yeah. So thanks. I will take that question. So let's first talk about the productivity actions we talked about. So this is a total picture of the activities that we've been talking about for the last couple of years. So we continue to execute on productivity actions. That's obviously included in the rightsizing of the organization.

是的。所以謝謝。我將回答這個問題。那我們先來談談我們談到的生產力行動。這就是我們過去幾年一直在談論的活動的總體情況。因此，我們將繼續執行提高生產力的行動。這顯然包含在組織的精簡之中。

This journey will continue as we execute the major projects and reduce our headcount as those projects start to be reduced. Through our rightsizing actions over the last couple of years, we have committed to take about 10% of our headcount out. We're about 60% complete as of the end of this quarter. And some -- in order of magnitude, in FY25, we realized about a $0.40 EPS cost savings versus what was prior to the program initiation and around $0.25 EPS cost savings versus prior year in FY24.

隨著我們執行主要專案並隨著這些專案的減少而減少員工人數，這趟旅程將繼續。透過過去幾年的精簡措施，我們承諾裁掉約 10% 的員工。截至本季末，我們已經完成了約 60%。從數量級來看，在 25 財年，與計劃啟動之前相比，我們實現了約 0.40 美元的 EPS 成本節約，與 24 財年相比，我們實現了約 0.25 美元的 EPS 成本節約。

Now associated to the digital energy that Eduardo talked about, this is a program that we are working on. And there will be many programs from an AI perspective that we will be rolling out. As we continue to progress on those, we obviously will be able to update you, but the vast majority of the cost savings we talked about was really associated to the headcount and productivity actions we had previously announced.

現在與愛德華多談到的數位能源相關，這是我們正在進行的專案。我們將從人工智慧的角度推出許多項目。隨著我們在這些方面不斷取得進展，我們顯然能夠向您通報最新情況，但我們談到的絕大多數成本節約實際上與我們先前宣布的員工人數和生產力行動有關。

Yeah. This is on top of that, things that we're working for the future after this wave of these initial productivity projects.

是的。最重要的是，在這一波最初的生產力項目之後，我們正在為未來而努力。

Got it. Thanks very much for the color.

知道了。非常感謝這個顏色。

Vincent Andrews, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的文森安德魯斯。

Hey, good morning. This is Steve Haynes on for Vincent. I wanted to ask a question on the volume performance in Americas. Would it be possible to just get a bit more color on the the 6% decline there. I guess, how that compared to your original expectation? And I guess if you could just break it out between base volumes versus any impact from, I guess, some of the project exits? Thank you.

嘿，早安。這是史蒂夫海恩斯 (Steve Haynes) 代替文森特 (Vincent)。我想問一個關於美洲銷售表現的問題。能否對 6% 的下降進行更詳細的說明？我想，這與你最初的預期相比如何？我想，您是否可以將其分為基礎交易量和一些項目退出帶來的影響？謝謝。

Yeah. Thanks for the question. So from the Americas volume perspective, we actually had strong on-site volumes in our stand-alone assets and the Gulf Coast [Tyco] The entire amount of the downturn was largely associated to two things. First, the exited project of World Energy and the prior year contribution; and second, really largely helium demand.

是的。謝謝你的提問。因此，從美洲的銷售角度來看，我們的獨立資產和墨西哥灣沿岸的現場銷售實際上很高。 [泰科] 整個經濟衰退主要與兩件事有關。首先，世界能源的退出計畫和前一年的貢獻；其次，對氦氣的需求確實很大。

We did see improvements in our overall Merchant business outside of the helium demand. So again, underlying strong volumes across our on-site and merchants outside of World Energy and the demand in helium.

我們確實看到了氦氣需求之外的整體商家業務有所改善。因此，我們現場和世界能源之外的商家的銷售以及氦氣需求都保持強勁。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Josh Spector, UBS.

瑞銀的喬希·斯佩克特。

Hey, hi. Good morning. I actually wanted to follow up on that same question. So I guess if the World Energy is the main project exit, I don't know what percent we should assume that is in volume declines? I guess the two pieces there that should we expect kind of a 2%, 3% volume headwind over the next two to three quarters as a result of that? And is there any income associated with that or is this just a top line change? Thanks.

嘿，你好。早安.我實際上想跟進同一個問題。所以我猜如果世界能源是主要的項目退出，我不知道我們應該假設交易量下降了百分之多少？我想，我們是否應該預期，未來兩到三個季度，銷售量將出現 2% 到 3% 的逆風？這是否與收入有關？或者這只是收入的變化？謝謝。

So yes, thanks for the question. So last year, during this quarter, we had contributions from World Energy of about $24 million. That was a one-time item, and we do not expect this headwind to continue moving forward.

是的，謝謝你的提問。去年本季度，我們獲得了世界能源公司的捐款約 2,400 萬美元。那是一次性的事情，我們預計這種逆風不會繼續下去。

That's clear. I'll leave it there. Thank you.

這很清楚。我就把它留在那裡。謝謝。

Mike Sison, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的麥克·西森。

Hey, good morning. Nice quarter. In terms of the core business, Eduardo, you mentioned I think in the last call that you still want to invest kind of $1.5 billion in low-risk projects for the core business. Have any update there? I haven't seen any announcements. How is bidding activity going with that? And do you think as we head into '26, that's something that you can sort of hit as a goal?

嘿，早安。不錯的季度。關於核心業務，愛德華多，我認為您在上次電話會議中提到，您仍然希望為核心業務的低風險項目投資 15 億美元。有任何更新嗎？我還沒有看到任何公告。競標活動進度如何？您是否認為，當我們邁入 26 年時，這是您可以實現的目標？

Yeah. We continue to see a lot of project activities on small plants. Those are normally not announcements that we make because the size of the projects. I will, probably for the next quarter, try to summarize what we did for the year and what we expect in following years, so you guys can have a better idea of how much of this $1 billion to $1.5 billion goes to these smaller plants.

是的。我們繼續看到許多在小型工廠進行的專案活動。由於專案規模較大，我們通常不會發布這些公告。我可能會在下個季度嘗試總結我們今年所做的工作以及我們對未來幾年的期望，以便你們可以更好地了解這 10 億到 15 億美元中有多少用於這些小型工廠。

In terms of larger-sized plants, we continue to see a lot of activity for electronics in Asia. We are building a lot of plants currently in Taiwan. We see some activities still in China, in South Korea. So that's an area that it's moving forward. We always have some projects in the US, considering our large base here to replace or to increase our capacity in both hydrogen and air separation. So that continues to do okay.

就大型工廠而言，我們繼續看到亞洲電子產品的大量活動。我們目前正在台灣建造許多工廠。我們看到中國和韓國仍有一些活動。這是我們正在向前發展的領域。考慮到我們在美國擁有大型基地，我們一直在美國有一些項目，以取代或增加我們在氫氣和空氣分離方面的能力。所以一切繼續順利。

And again, this is the core of our business. This is the business that our products has started as a company, and we expect that to pick up and to increase in the next years. I -- as you know, this is my -- I'm finishing my first six months in the company and traveling around and looking to go into different locations in different countries.

再說一遍，這是我們業務的核心。這是我們公司產品所開創的業務，我們預計未來幾年該業務將會回暖並成長。我——正如你所知，這是我的——我在公司工作了六個月，正在四處旅行，尋找去不同國家不同地方的機會。

And I would say that when you go to Asia and see the capabilities that we have in terms of cryogenic equipment manufacturing and how efficient we are in these areas and how can we bring this equipment all over the globe and to be competitive, I think Air Products is in a very strong position. It's probably one of the -- or the best facilities that I have seen in my career, and I intend to take full advantage of that.

我想說的是，當你去亞洲看到我們在低溫設備製造方面的能力、我們在這些領域的效率以及我們如何將這些設備銷往全球並保持競爭力時，我認為空氣產品公司處於非常有利的地位。這可能是我職業生涯中見過的最好的設施之一，我打算充分利用它。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Patrick Cunningham, Citi.

花旗銀行的派崔克‧坎寧安 (Patrick Cunningham)。

Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. So Eduardo, you alluded to some of the larger project announcements in the Gulf Coast for blue ammonia. Does this change the dynamic at all for Air Products? I know you mentioned Darrow is cost competitive, but are there now fewer logical equity partners for you and the market is well served or do you see it differently?

嗨，早安。感謝您回答我的問題。愛德華多，您提到了墨西哥灣沿岸一些大型藍氨計畫公告。這是否會改變空氣產品公司的動態？我知道您提到 Darrow 具有成本競爭力，但是現在對您來說合理的股權合作夥伴是否變少了，而且市場服務良好，還是您有不同的看法？

Well, we'll see. I think the ammonia market is a large market. So we have a lot of people being interested on that. There is some stronger push now for clean ammonia, especially in the Far East, some bids coming out for the power producers in Japan and Korea looking for clean ammonia. So I think the demand will be there. And on top of that, as I mentioned, I strongly believe that blue ammonia from the US Gulf Coast will be very competitive in Europe. And I think there is room for our project and probably a few more projects.

好吧，我們拭目以待。我認為氨市場是一個很大的市場。因此有很多人對此感興趣。目前，對清潔氨的需求有了更強勁的推動，特別是在遠東地區，日本和韓國的電力生產商已經發出了一些尋求清潔氨的招標。所以我認為需求是存在的。除此之外，正如我所提到的，我堅信美國墨西哥灣沿岸的藍氨在歐洲將非常具有競爭力。我認為我們的項目以及其他一些項目都有發展空間。

Matthew DeYoe, Bank of America.

美國銀行的馬修‧德約 (Matthew DeYoe)。

Thank you. On slide 4, just -- look, within the improved the core/refocus and then kind of achieve potential, right? So you have NEOM as kind of a key driver in 2030 for offsetting underperforming projects and I assume a decent amount of that is the Total agreement starting in 2030. But NEOM is expected to start up in 2027. So I'm just wondering why that is more of a consideration for the 2030 profile?

謝謝。在投影片 4 上，只是 - 看，在改進核心/重新聚焦之後，就可以實現潛力了，對嗎？因此，NEOM 將成為 2030 年抵消表現不佳的專案的關鍵驅動力，我認為其中很大一部分是 2030 年開始的整體協議。但 NEOM 預計將於 2027 年啟動。所以我只是想知道為什麼這對 2030 年的概況更有意義？

Yeah, the 2030 number comes more from Darrow than NEOM. So NEOM, we also expect the contrary that you mentioned to come online in 2030. As I said before, NEOM continues to progress well. We expect to start up in 2027 and that we are working as well on placing the product initially as green ammonia and the green hydrogen will need to wait for the regulation in Europe to follow. So that's where we are. We are also in the same way we're working to commercialize and finding partners for Darrow. We're working also in the commercializing the green ammonia from NEOM starting 2027.

是的，2030 這個數字更多來自 Darrow 而不是 NEOM。因此，NEOM，我們也預計您提到的相反情況將在 2030 年出現。正如我之前所說，NEOM 繼續取得良好進展。我們預計將於 2027 年啟動，我們正在努力將產品初步推出市場，因為綠色氨和綠色氫氣需要等待歐洲法規的出台。這就是我們現在的狀況。我們也以同樣的方式努力實現 Darrow 的商業化並尋找合作夥伴。我們也致力於從 2027 年開始實現 NEOM 綠色氨的商業化。

Chris Parkinson, Wolfe Research.

克里斯帕金森，沃爾夫研究公司。

Great. Thank you so much for taking my questions. Eduardo, you laid out a helpful breakdown of CapEx a few months ago and just your initial thoughts in terms of all the bars and the projects and how you're thinking about things in the future? I realize it's only been a few months, but is there any update on how we should be thinking about the progress of hitting those targets?

偉大的。非常感謝您回答我的問題。愛德華多，幾個月前，您對資本支出進行了有益的細分，您對所有酒吧和項目有什麼初步想法，以及您對未來的看法？我知道才過了幾個月，但是對於我們應該如何考慮實現這些目標的進展，有什麼最新消息嗎？

It seems like the buy side community is focusing on getting CapEx somewhere down into the mid-3s, just if there's any thought process there as well as uses for cash in terms of balance sheet and eventually buyback? Just any change of thought process for the last couple of weeks or months? Thank you so much.

看起來買方社區正專注於將資本支出降至 3% 中段，是否有任何思考過程以及資產負債表和最終回購方面的現金用途？過去幾週或幾個月內思考過程有什麼變化嗎？太感謝了。

Thank you, Chris. No, no major updates on that. We continue to follow our -- what we said before that our intent is to be around cash neutral for the last -- the next three years. So make sure that we, of course, will maintain our dividends, but we need to balance our cash sources of our cash uses. And we expect to be able to do that in the next three years.

謝謝你，克里斯。不，沒有重大更新。我們將繼續遵循我們之前所說的，我們的目標是在未來三年內保持現金中立。因此，當然要確保我們維持股息，但我們需要平衡現金來源和現金使用。我們期望在未來三年內實現這一目標。

How well we'll do that, we'll get to mine other users that we can do with the cash like buy back shares. But at this point, we -- first, we're trying to walk before we run. So the priority is to make sure that our CapEx for '26, '27, and '28 matches the cash generation that we have.

我們做得如何，我們將挖掘其他用戶，我們可以用現金來回購股票。但在這一點上，我們——首先，我們要先學走，然後再學跑。因此，當務之急是確保我們 26、27 和 28 年的資本支出與我們擁有的現金流相符。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Duffy Fischer, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的達菲費雪。

Yes. Good morning, guys, and thanks for the details on helium for this year. But just on that subject of water, you've tracked helium for a lot of years. How do you see the cycle for helium playing out over the next couple of years? How much -- just at the current levels, when do we anniversary the level we're at today, like how much is the headwind next year? And do you think this is still kind of a multiyear down cycle or can we stabilize as we get into 2026?

是的。大家早安，感謝您提供有關今年氦氣的詳細資訊。但就水這一主題而言，您已經追蹤氦氣很多年了。您如何看待未來幾年氦氣的循環？就目前的水平而言，我們什麼時候才能達到今天的水平，例如明年的逆風有多大？您認為這仍是一個多年的下行週期嗎？還是說到 2026 年我們就能穩定下來？

Yeah. We have been debating that a lot internally, Duffy, as you can imagine, it's the helium market -- the main question is, is [helium model] cycle or there's a structural change and what happened in the market in the last few years and what will happen in the future, right?

是的。達菲，正如你所想像的，我們內部一直在爭論這個問題，這是氦氣市場——主要的問題是，（氦氣模型）是周期性的還是結構性變化，以及過去幾年市場發生了什麼，未來會發生什麼，對嗎？

So we had a few significant changes in the market. One of them was that the BLM that used to be the largest source and had the capability of managing volume because they have storage for helium. The BLM is becoming less and less of a factor in the market. In fact, it's very minor now.

因此我們在市場上做出了一些重大改變。其中之一是，BLM 曾經是最大的氦氣來源，並且有能力管理氦氣量，因為他們有氦氣儲存設施。BLM 在市場上的影響力正在變得越來越小。事實上，現在這種情況已經很小了。

And most of the helium sources now are connected to a natural gas process in LNG plants. And you saw an increase in the supply side. And in the demand side, we've seen some diversification with new players in the industrial gas space and that is changing the way the market operates for the last few years.

目前，大多數氦氣源都與液化天然氣工廠的天然氣製程相連。你還會看到供應方面增加。在需求方面，我們看到工業氣體領域出現了一些新參與者，這正在改變過去幾年的市場運作方式。

For the next years, I still believe that the nature of the helium market will not going to change. At some point, you're going to have a crisis, you're going to have a change in LNG demand, you're going to have a war closing plant, a mechanical failure and you're going to see the pendulum go in the other way in the market. And I think products, I said before, products try to be a very responsible player in this market.

在接下來的幾年裡，我仍然相信氦氣市場的本質不會改變。在某個時候，你會遇到危機，你會面臨液化天然氣需求的變化，你會遇到戰爭關閉工廠，發生機械故障，你會看到市場鐘擺向另一個方向擺動。我認為產品，我之前說過，產品試圖成為這個市場中非常負責任的參與者。

We made an investment on a cabin a few years ago, understanding that we need to have a little more of wiggle room to manage our balance of helium. I've seen that others are investing now. I think that's -- it's a positive sign for the market. And we'll see the -- some changes in the future.

幾年前，我們投資了一個小屋，因為我們知道我們需要有更多的迴旋餘地來管理我們的氦氣平衡。我看到其他人現在正在投資。我認為這對市場來說是一個正面的訊號。我們將會看到未來的一些改變。

One point that I think you need to take into consideration is that the price increases and decreases in this market takes a little time to percolate all the way in the chain to get to the suppliers. But I think that you'll start to see that in this year, and you'll probably continue to see that in the next year. So I expect that going forward, the impact for -- in terms of margin are going to be a little less dramatic for all the industrial gas companies because you're going to get also a reduction on the cost of the helium that you purchased from the manufacturers.

我認為你需要考慮的一點是，這個市場的價格上漲和下跌需要一點時間才能滲透到整個鏈條並到達供應商。但我認為你會在今年開始看到這種情況，並且明年你可能會繼續看到這種情況。因此，我預計，就利潤而言，對所有工業氣體公司而言，未來的影響將不會那麼大，因為從製造商購買的氦氣成本也會降低。

So it's not an easy situation. I think we are managing that well. Air Products is still making a higher margin than we were making before COVID with a much lower volume. And I think the team has been playing this while managing the volumes in the cabin. But at some point, we need to make sure we stabilize that and we use these volumes. And we'll pull the trigger when we think it's a bit moment for that.

所以這不是一個容易的情況。我認為我們處理得很好。儘管產量低得多，但空氣產品公司的利潤率仍高於新冠疫情之前。我認為團隊在管理機艙音量的同時一直在玩這個遊戲。但到了一定時候，我們需要確保穩定下來，並利用好這些交易量。當我們認為時機成熟時，我們就會採取行動。

Perfect. Thank you for that.

完美的。謝謝你。

Kevin McCarthy, Vertical Research Partners.

凱文·麥卡錫（Kevin McCarthy），Vertical Research Partners。

Thank you and good morning. Eduardo, you've set forth a long-term return on capital employed goal in the mid- to high-teens. And I was wondering if you could speak to the trajectory from today's level of 10% to that goal? Obviously, there's some short-term friction or volatility as you reshape the portfolio. But when do you think we might turn the corner? And how might you rank order the most important drivers to get those returns higher over the next several years?

謝謝，早安。愛德華多，您制定了長期資本使用報酬率目標，即十五到十幾倍。我想知道您是否可以談談從目前的 10% 水平到該目標的軌跡？顯然，當你重塑投資組合時，會出現一些短期摩擦或波動。但您認為什麼時候我們才能扭轉局面呢？您如何對最重要的驅動因素進行排序，以在未來幾年內提​​高回報？

Thank you, Kevin. I'll ask Melissa to take this question, and I'll make a comment at the end. Go ahead, Melissa.

謝謝你，凱文。我將請梅麗莎回答這個問題，然後我會在最後發表評論。繼續吧，梅麗莎。

Absolutely. Thank you, Eduardo, and thanks, Kevin, for the question. So as you saw this quarter, our ROC is around 11.1%, which is down versus prior quarter. This is largely the significant construction process that we have. So ex-NEOM, obviously, that would improve greatly.

絕對地。謝謝愛德華多和凱文提出的問題。正如您在本季看到的，我們的 ROC 約為 11.1%，較上一季有所下降。這基本上就是我們的重要建設過程。因此，對於 NEOM 而言，顯然，情況會大大改善。

So we did see a four-quarter trailing after-tax return that went down a little bit due to the headwinds from helium and our canceled projects. That was coupled, obviously, with higher debt and lower deferred income tax driven by our cancelled projects.

因此，我們確實看到，由於氦氣和我們取消的項目帶來的不利影響，過去四個季度的稅後回報率略有下降。顯然，這是由於我們取消了項目，導致債務增加，遞延所得稅減少。

So that's providing some of the headwinds. Without CIP and cash, our ROC would actually be up about 500 basis points. So as we see the CIP reduce and our cash balances obviously increased, as we become more disciplined on our capital allocation, our ROC will improve. We've given you the forecast over the next five years. I fully anticipate that we should be able to meet and beat that. And as I said, the reduction in the capital outlay will help that greatly.

所以這會帶來一些阻力。如果沒有CIP和現金，我們的ROC實際上會上升約500個基點。因此，隨著CIP下降，現金餘額明顯增加，隨著我們在資本配置方面更加自律，我們的ROC將會改善。我們已經為您提供了未來五年的預測。我完全相信我們能夠達到並克服這個目標。正如我所說，減少資本支出將對此有很大幫助。

Yeah. So a lot of influence from construction progress on the numbers. A little complicated accounting here because we consolidate NEOM 100% at this point, that will be the consolidated start-up. But Melissa and the team has calculations in the background, and we are pushing hard to get to this ROC by -- to mid-teens by 2030.

是的。因此，施工進度對數字的影響很大。這裡的會計有點複雜，因為我們此時將 NEOM 100% 合併，這將是合併後的新創公司。但梅麗莎和團隊已經在後台進行了計算，我們正在努力爭取在 2030 年之前將 ROC 提高到十五六歲。

Lars Alexander, Jefferies.

拉爾斯·亞歷山大（Lars Alexander），傑富瑞集團（Jefferies）。

Hi, this is Dan Rizzo on for Lawrence. In your opening remarks, you mentioned inflation being somewhat of a headwind. I was just wondering what exactly that is and what you expect going forward in terms of costs?

大家好，我是勞倫斯的丹‧里佐 (Dan Rizzo)。在您的開場白中，您提到通貨膨脹在某種程度上是一個阻力。我只是想知道這到底是什麼以及您對未來的成本有何預期？

We continue to see inflation all over. As we all know, the situation of tariffs is not very clear, to say the least. We're trying to manage that the best way we can. It is always a function of how well we also manage our pricing. So you have just to stay ahead in the race between price and inflation and that's a battle that we fight every day.

我們繼續看到通貨膨脹在各地蔓延。眾所周知，關稅的情況至少可以說不是很清楚。我們正在盡力以最佳方式解決這個問題。這始終取決於我們如何管理定價。因此，你必須在價格和通貨膨脹的競爭中保持領先，而這正是我們每天都在進行的一場戰鬥。

But inflation has been a concern. The tariffs will impact at some point more than one we expect. Our business is directly not affected that much, but our customers are and sometimes our suppliers are and that's the source of inflation we see.

但通貨膨脹一直令人擔憂。關稅在某些時候將產生比我們預期更多的影響。我們的業務沒有受到太大的直接影響，但我們的客戶受到了影響，有時我們的供應商也受到了影響，這就是我們看到的通貨膨脹的根源。

James Hooper, Bernstein.

詹姆斯胡珀、伯恩斯坦。

Morning, and thank you very much for taking my question. I think we've touched on NEOM and Darrow, but can we have an update on the other underperforming projects in Edmonton, Rotterdam, Arizona? And these are meant to come online in the next couple of years. Is there any way that these can be delayed? Or do you think those -- should you not be able to get the demand or offtake or these data set? Thank you.

早上好，非常感謝您回答我的問題。我想我們已經討論過 NEOM 和 Darrow，但我們能否了解一下埃德蒙頓、鹿特丹、亞利桑那州其他表現不佳的項目的最新情況？這些預計將在未來幾年內上線。有什麼方法可以延遲這些嗎？或者您認為那些—您應該無法獲得需求或承購或這些資料集嗎？謝謝。

Yeah. These are all projects that have schedules for three years or more. So not a lot of things change in three months. So our forecast in terms of capital and schedule is still the same that we provided you last quarter. So if there are changes, we'll come back to you. But at this point, what we presented before is exactly where we are in terms of CapEx and schedule.

是的。這些都是計劃工期為三年或三年以上的項目。所以三個月內很多事情不會改變。因此，我們在資本和時間表方面的預測與上個季度提供的預測仍然相同。如果有變化，我們會及時通知您。但目前，我們先前所展現的正是我們在資本支出和進度上的現況。

And one incremental comment, the projects that you talked about, the Edmonton project and our assets in Rotterdam, those are underpinned by customers. So that -- those are a little bit of a different flavor than our NEOM and Louisiana projects.

另外補充一點，您談到的項目，埃德蒙頓項目和我們在鹿特丹的資產，都是由客戶支持的。所以 — — 這些與我們的 NEOM 和路易斯安那項目略有不同。

This concludes the question-and-answer portion of today's call. At this time, I would like to turn the call back over to Eduardo for any additional or closing remarks.

今天電話會議的問答部分到此結束。現在，我想將電話轉回給愛德華多，讓他做任何補充或結束語。

Thank you. I would like to, again, thank everyone for joining our call today. We appreciate your interest in Air Products, and we look forward to discussing our results with you again next quarter. All the best, and have a great day. Thank you.

謝謝。我想再次感謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議。感謝您對空氣產品的關注，我們期待下個季度再次與您討論我們的業績。祝一切順利，有美好的一天。謝謝。

This concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。