Air Products and Chemicals Inc (APD) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to Air Products' fourth-quarter earnings release conference call.

早上好，歡迎參加空氣產品公司第四季財報電話會議。

Today's call is being recorded at the request of Air Products.

應空氣產品公司的要求，我們對今天的通話進行了錄音。

Please note that this presentation and the comments made on behalf of Air Products are subject to copyright by Air Products and all rights are reserved.

請注意，本簡報和代表空氣產品公司發表的評論受空氣產品公司版權保護，並保留所有權利。

Beginning today's call is Mr. Eric Guter.

今天的電話會議由埃里克·古特先生開始。

Please go ahead, sir.

請繼續，先生。

Thank you, Jessica.

謝謝你，潔西卡。

Good morning, everyone.

大家早安。

Welcome to Air Products fourth-quarter 2024 earnings results teleconference.

歡迎參加空氣產品公司 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。

This is Eric Guter, Vice President of Investor Relations.

我是艾瑞克‧古特，投資人關係副總裁。

I'm pleased today to be joined by Seifi Ghasemi, our Chairman, President and CEO; Melissa Schaeffer, our Chief Financial Officer; and Sean Major, our Executive Vice President, General Counsel and Secretary.

我很高興今天能與我們的董事長、總裁兼執行長 Seifi Ghasemi 一起參加會議。 Melissa Schaeffer，我們的財務長；以及我們的執行副總裁、總法律顧問兼秘書 Sean Major。

After our comments, we will be pleased to take your questions.

在我們提出意見後，我們將很樂意回答您的問題。

Our earnings release and the slides for this call are available on our website at www.airproducts.com.

我們的收益發布和本次電話會議的幻燈片可在我們的網站 www.airproducts.com 上取得。

Today's discussion contains forward-looking statements, including those about earnings and capital expenditure guidance, business outlook and investment opportunities.

今天的討論包含前瞻性陳述，包括有關收益和資本支出指導、業務前景和投資機會的陳述。

Please refer to the cautionary note regarding forward-looking statements that is provided in our earnings release and on slide number 2.

請參閱我們的收益報告和第 2 號投影片中提供的有關前瞻性陳述的警示說明。

Additionally, throughout today's discussion, we will refer to various financial measures, including earnings per share, operating income, operating margin, EBITDA, EBITDA margin, the effective tax rate and ROCE, either on a total company or segment basis.

此外，在今天的討論中，我們將參考整個公司或部門的各種財務指標，包括每股盈餘、營業收入、營業利潤率、EBITDA、EBITDA 利潤率、有效稅率和 ROCE。

Unless we specifically state otherwise, statements regarding these measures refer to our adjusted non-GAAP financial measures.

除非我們另有明確說明，否則有關這些措施的聲明是指我們調整後的非公認會計準則財務措施。

Reconciliations of these measures to our most directly comparable GAAP financial measures can be found on our website in the relevant earnings release section.

這些指標與我們最直接可比較的 GAAP 財務指標的調整可以在我們網站的相關收益發布部分找到。

Now I'm pleased to turn the call over to Seifi.

現在我很高興將電話轉給 Seifi。

Thank you, Eric, and good day to everyone.

謝謝你，艾瑞克，祝大家有美好的一天。

Thank you for taking time from your busy schedules to join our call today.

感謝您在百忙之中抽空參加今天的電話會議。

Please turn to slide number 4 of the material we have posted on our website for this call.

請參閱我們在網站上發布的本次電話會議資料的第 4 號投影片。

Ten years ago, we set a goal for Air Products to be the safest, most diverse and most profitable industrial gas company in the world, delivering excellent service to our customers.

十年前，我們為空氣產品公司設定了成為世界上最安全、最多元化和最盈利的工業氣體公司的目標，為我們的客戶提供卓越的服務。

I am very proud to say that thanks to the outstanding efforts of all of our talented, dedicated and committed people at Air Products, we are today the safest and most profitable industrial gas company in the world.

我非常自豪地說，由於空氣產品公司所有才華橫溢、敬業和忠誠的員工的傑出努力，我們今天成為世界上最安全、最盈利的工業氣體公司。

We have achieved what we set out to do, and now we are ready to move forward.

我們已經實現了我們的目標，現在我們準備繼續前進。

On the slide number 5, I'd like to point to our safety track record, which is our number one priority.

在第 5 張投影片上，我想指出我們的安全記錄，這是我們的首要任務。

We have made significant progress on both our employee lost time injury rate and recordable injury rate since 2014.

自 2014 年以來，我們在員工誤工工傷率和可記錄工傷率方面都取得了重大進展。

We are very proud of this improvement.

我們對這項改進感到非常自豪。

We will continue to strive to achieve zero accidents and zero incidents as the ultimate goal.

我們將繼續努力，以實現零事故、零事故為最終目標。

We believe that all incidents and accidents are preventable.

我們相信所有事件和事故都是可以預防的。

Now please turn to slide number 6 for a look at our fourth quarter results.

現在請翻到第 6 張投影片，看看我們第四季的業績。

Our fourth quarter adjusted earnings per share of $3.56 was at the upper end of our guidance range of $3.33 to $3.63, up 13% over last year, driven by our three largest reporting segments.

我們在第四季度調整後每股收益為 3.56 美元，處於我們 3.33 至 3.63 美元指導範圍的上限，比去年增長 13%，這主要得益於我們三個最大的報告部門。

Both productivity and pricing actions contributed positively this quarter.

本季度生產力和定價行為均做出了積極貢獻。

We successfully completed the $1.8 billion sale of our LNG, process technology and equipment business to Honeywell at the end of September.

9 月底，我們成功完成了以 18 億美元的價格向霍尼韋爾出售液化天然氣、製程技術和設備業務的交易。

The LNG business was part of our full fiscal year 2024 results.

液化天然氣業務是我們 2024 財年全年業績的一部分。

But with the sale, we no longer, it will no longer contribute to our earnings going forward.

但隨著出售，我們不再、它將不再為我們未來的收入做出貢獻。

Our adjusted EBITDA margin was up 460 basis points and our adjusted operating margin increased 350 basis points versus prior year.

與去年相比，我們調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率成長了 460 個基點，調整後的營業利潤率成長了 350 個基點。

Please turn to slide number 7 for our fiscal year 2025 outlook, which is 2.5% higher than last year.

請參閱第 7 張投影片，了解我們對 2025 財年的展望，比去年成長 2.5%。

We expect our ongoing business, which excludes the LNG business to deliver adjusted earnings per share of $12.70 to $13, demonstrating an improvement of 6% to 9% over last year.

我們預計我們正在進行的業務（不包括液化天然氣業務）將帶來調整後每股收益 12.70 美元至 13 美元，比去年提高 6% 至 9%。

We expect our first quarter adjusted earnings per share to be in the range of $2.75 to $2.85, which is flat to up to 4% when considering the LNG divestiture.

我們預計第一季調整後每股收益將在 2.75 美元至 2.85 美元之間，考慮到液化天然氣剝離，該收益將持平至 4%。

As you know, our first quarter is typically our weakest quarter, impacted by seasonality.

如您所知，受季節性影響，第一季通常是最疲軟的季度。

In addition, we are not forecasting any significant growth for this quarter due to our concerns about the economic activity in China.

此外，由於我們對中國經濟活動的擔憂，我們預計本季不會出現任何顯著成長。

It is possible that economic activity in China might improve with actions that the Chinese government might take in the future, but we have not included that in our forecast.

中國政府未來可能採取的行動可能會改善中國的經濟活動，但我們尚未將其納入我們的預測中。

We are proud of our results this quarter, and I would like to thank the talented and dedicated people at Air Products for helping us to deliver these strong results.

我們對本季的業績感到自豪，我要感謝空氣產品公司才華橫溢、敬業的員工幫助我們取得了這些強勁的業績。

Working together, I am confident that we can achieve what we have put forth in our guidance for fiscal year 2025.

我相信，透過共同努力，我們能夠實現 2025 財年指導中提出的目標。

Now please turn to slide number 8 where you can see our strong, sustained performance over the long term.

現在請翻到第 8 張投影片，您可以在其中看到我們長期強勁、持續的業績。

We have achieved a 10% annual growth rate in our adjusted earnings per share since 2014.

自 2014 年以來，我們的調整後每股收益實現了 10% 的年增長率。

We have delivered consistent results throughout significant ups and downs in the world economy.

在世界經濟的重大起起落落中，我們取得了一致的成果。

And as I just mentioned, we expect to continue that trajectory in fiscal year 2025 with adjusted EPS growth ranging from 6% to 9% on a like-for-like basis.

正如我剛才提到的，我們預計 2025 財年將繼續這一軌跡，調整後每股收益將年增 6% 至 9%。

Now please turn to slide number 9.

現在請翻到第9張投影片。

Another top priority for us is to consistently return cash to our shareholders.

我們的另一個首要任務是持續向股東返還現金。

Our sustained growth has enabled us to achieve a 9% annual growth rate in our dividend since 2014, and we plan to return about $1.6 billion of cash to our shareholders in dividend payments this year alone.

自2014年以來，我們的持續成長使我們的股息年增率達到9%，我們計劃僅在今年就向股東返還約16億美元的現金股息。

We are proud of our record of increasing our quarterly dividend payments for 42 consecutive years.

我們對連續 42 年增加季度股息支付的記錄感到自豪。

We take a balanced approach to determine our dividend, and we are confident that our sustained performance will enable us to continue rewarding shareholders through increased dividends while also meeting the cash needs of our growth strategy.

我們採取平衡的方法來確定股息，我們相信，我們的持續表現將使我們能夠繼續透過增加股息來回報股東，同時滿足我們成長策略的現金需求。

Now please turn to slide number 10, which is my favorite slide, again demonstrating on long-term performance.

現在請轉到第 10 號投影片，這是我最喜歡的投影片，再次示範了長期效能。

Our adjusted EBITDA margin has expanded by almost 2,000 basis points over the last 10 years.

過去 10 年，我們調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率成長了近 2,000 個基點。

We are now at a 44% adjusted EBITDA margin.

目前，我們的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 44%。

We lead the industry when it comes to adjusted EBITDA margin, and this track record demonstrates our focus on effectively running our base industrial gases business.

在調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率方面，我們處於行業領先地位，這一業績記錄表明我們專注於有效運營我們的基礎工業氣體業務。

Now I would like to turn the call over to Melissa Schaeffer, our Chief Financial Officer to discuss our quarter 4 results.

現在我想將電話轉給我們的財務長 Melissa Schaeffer，討論我們第四季的業績。

Melissa?

梅麗莎？

Thank you, Seifi.

謝謝你，賽菲。

Please turn to slide number 11 for a detailed review of our fourth quarter results.

請參閱第 11 張投影片，詳細了解我們第四季的業績。

Compared to last year, volume and price each improved 1% with positive underlying sales in our three largest regional segments.

與去年相比，銷量和價格均成長了 1%，我們三個最大的區域細分市場的基本銷售額呈正成長。

Higher on-site volume, including new assets more than offset lower demand for merchant products.

包括新資產在內的更高的現場交易量足以抵消對商業產品需求的下降。

Overall, price improved modestly driven by positive pricing results in the Americas and Europe.

總體而言，在美洲和歐洲積極的定價結果的推動下，價格小幅上漲。

Declining natural gas prices, primarily in North America, resulted in 2% lower energy cost pass through, which has no impact on profit.

天然氣價格下降（主要是在北美）導致能源成本轉嫁降低了 2%，但這對利潤沒有影響。

Adjusted EBITDA increased 12% on favorable volume and price, which contributed to over 450 basis point improvement to adjusted EBITDA margin.

由於銷售和價格有利，調整後 EBITDA 成長了 12%，這使得調整後 EBITDA 利潤率提高了 450 個基點以上。

Sequentially, sales and EBITDA improved across most reporting segments, driven by favorable on-site volumes.

隨後，在良好的現場銷售的推動下，大多數報告部門的銷售額和 EBITDA 均有所改善。

Now please turn to slide 12 for a discussion of our adjusted earnings per share.

現在請翻到投影片 12，討論我們調整後的每股盈餘。

Our fourth quarter adjusted earnings per share of $3.56 was up $0.41 or 13% versus last year, driven by strong operating results.

由於強勁的經營業績，我們在第四季度調整後每股收益為 3.56 美元，較去年增長 0.41 美元，即 13%。

Overall, volume was up $0.15 on higher on-site partially offset by lower merchant demand.

總體而言，由於現場銷售增加，成交量上漲了 0.15 美元，但部分被商家需求下降所抵消。

Price, net of variable costs, contributed $0.23 driven by both pricing gains and lower power costs.

由於定價收益和電力成本下降，扣除可變成本後的價格貢獻了 0.23 美元。

Cost was favorable $0.05 as our productivity actions more than offset the impact of inflation.

成本為有利的 0.05 美元，因為我們的生產力行動足以抵消通貨膨脹的影響。

Now please turn to slide number 13 for a brief discussion of our business segment results.

現在請翻到第 13 張投影片，簡要討論我們的業務部門業績。

You can find individual slides covering each of the business segments in the appendix.

您可以在附錄中找到涵蓋每個業務部門的單獨投影片。

Looking at each business segment.

縱觀各個業務板塊。

Americas overall pricing was 3% higher, while volume was flat.

美洲的整體定價上漲 3%，但銷售量持平。

This translated to a 6% merchant pricing gain for the region with improvement across the product line.

這意味著該地區的商家定價提高了 6%，整個產品線也得到了改善。

Adjusted EBITDA increased 11% and adjusted EBITDA margin improved over 650 basis points in each case, primarily due to strong pricing and favorable mix driven by onetime asset sale associated with an early contract termination at the request of the customer and higher hydrogen demand.

調整後的EBITDA 成長了11%，調整後的EBITDA 利潤率提高了650 個基點以上，這主要是由於與應客戶要求提前終止合約以及更高的氫氣需求相關的一次性資產出售所推動的強勁定價和有利的組合。

Additionally, lower energy cost pass-through improved margin by approximately 200 basis points.

此外，較低的能源成本轉嫁將利潤率提高了約 200 個基點。

Moving to our Asia segment.

轉向我們的亞洲部分。

The 7% volume improvement was driven by our on-site business, including contributions from new assets.

7% 的銷售成長是由我們的現場業務推動的，包括新資產的貢獻。

Adjusted EBITDA increased 21% and adjusted EBITDA margin improved almost 500 basis points.

調整後 EBITDA 成長 21%，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率提高近 500 個基點。

In each case, primarily due to favorable on-site volumes and costs.

在每種情況下，主要是由於有利的現場數量和成本。

Looking at Europe's results, price was 2%, up with broad based improvement across the region.

從歐洲的結果來看，價格上漲了 2%，整個地區都有廣泛的改善。

Volume was flat as a new asset in Uzbekistan offset weaker merchant demand.

由於烏茲別克的新資產抵消了商業需求的疲軟，成交量持平。

Adjusted EBITDA improved 17% and adjusted EBITDA margin increased nearly 500 basis points in each case, mainly due to improved price.

調整後的 EBITDA 成長了 17%，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率成長了近 500 個基點，這主要是由於價格的改善。

Switching to our Middle East and India segment, lower merchant volume negatively impacted sales and adjusted EBITDA.

轉向我們的中東和印度業務，商家數量減少對銷售和調整後的 EBITDA 產生了負面影響。

Unfavorable costs also contributed to lower adjusted EBITDA.

不利的成本也導致調整後 EBITDA 下降。

For our Corporate and other segment, sales and profit were lower this quarter, primarily due to lower sales and higher cost estimates related to our sale of equipment activity.

對於我們的企業和其他部門，本季的銷售額和利潤較低，主要是由於與我們的設備銷售活動相關的銷售額較低和成本估算較高。

Finally, I'd like to close out the review of our performance and quarterly results on slide number 14.

最後，我想在第 14 張投影片上結束我們業績和季度業績的回顧。

Our core industrial gas business remains as strong as ever, delivering significant EPS growth over the past decade and achieving industry leading profitability and adjusted EBITDA margin.

我們的核心工業氣體業務一如既往地強勁，在過去十年中實現了每股收益的顯著增長，並實現了行業領先的盈利能力和調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率。

Air Products pioneered the on-site business model more than 80 years ago and about half of our business today is on site, proportionally higher than our peers.

空氣產品公司在 80 多年前開創了現場業務模式，如今我們大約一半的業務是在現場進行的，比例高於同行。

Our on-site business has contractual pass throughs, which enables us to pass energy costs and other cost inflation to our customers.

我們的現場業務具有合約傳遞，這使我們能夠將能源成本和其他成本上漲轉嫁給客戶。

This, combined with our take or pay provisions in our customer contracts, enable the stability of our business.

這與我們客戶合約中的照付不議條款相結合，使我們的業務保持穩定。

We generate strong and steady cash flow that supports reinvestment aligned with our disciplined capital allocation strategy.

我們產生強勁而穩定的現金流，支持與我們嚴格的資本配置策略一致的再投資。

As we continue to show, this also fuels our ability to consistently return capital to shareholders with continued increases to our dividend.

正如我們繼續表明的那樣，這也增強了我們透過持續增加股利來持續向股東返還資本的能力。

Through our core industrial gas business, we supply customers in dozens of industries with critical products and services, with the goal of being the safest most diverse and most profitable industrial gas company in the world.

透過我們的核心工業氣體業務，我們為數十個行業的客戶提供關鍵產品和服務，目標是成為世界上最安全、最多樣化和最盈利的工業氣體公司。

Now I'll turn the call back over to Seifi.

現在我將把電話轉回給 Seifi。

Thank you, Melissa.

謝謝你，梅麗莎。

Now I would like to take this opportunity to discuss our growth strategy.

現在我想藉此機會討論我們的發展策略。

Please turn to slide number 16.

請翻到第16張投影片。

Our growth strategy consists of two pillars, our excellent core industrial gases business and our developing clean energy business.

我們的成長策略由兩大支柱組成：卓越的核心工業氣體業務和不斷發展的清潔能源業務。

Our core industrial gas business is an industry leader.

我們的核心工業氣體業務處於行業領先地位。

It is a stable business and grows at GDP or industrial production levels around the world.

這是一項穩定的業務，並以全球 GDP 或工業生產水準成長。

We continue to optimize for maximum efficiency and invest strategically to maintain our market share.

我們不斷優化以實現最高效率，並進行策略性投資以維持我們的市場份額。

In '23 and '24, almost half of our capital investment was related to our core industrial gases business.

在 23 年和 24 年，我們幾乎一半的資本投資與我們的核心工業氣體業務有關。

Second, we see tremendous opportunity in clean hydrogen, driven by strong demand for decarbonization solutions that we are already seeing play out today.

其次，在對脫碳解決方案的強勁需求的推動下，我們看到了清潔氫的巨大機遇，而我們今天已經看到了這一點。

We are particularly optimistic about the use of blue hydrogen in the form of clean ammonia to minimize the use of coal in Asia's power plants.

我們特別看好以清潔氨的形式使用藍氫，以最大限度地減少亞洲發電廠的煤炭使用。

Another promising demand is the use of blue ammonia directly to power ships.

另一個有前景的需求是直接使用藍氨為船舶提供動力。

Dozens of such ships are already on order or under constructions.

數十艘此類船舶已在訂購或正在建造中。

We are equally excited about the application of green hydrogen to meet Europe's emission reduction mandates across the heavy, industrial and transport sectors.

我們同樣對綠氫的應用感到興奮，以滿足歐洲在重工業、工業和運輸領域的減排要求。

Green hydrogen has real demand today, and we expect to drive outside growth relative to our core industrial gas business over the long term.

如今，綠色氫有著真正的需求，我們預計從長遠來看將推動我們核心工業氣體業務的外部成長。

The two pillars of our growth strategy are complementary and interrelated, underpinned by our core competencies, technology and of course, more than 65 years of hydrogen experience.

我們成長策略的兩大支柱是互補且相互關聯的，並以我們的核心能力、技術以及超過 65 年的氫能經驗為基礎。

We are committed to efficiently running and growing our core industrial gas business, while pursuing strategic high growth and high return opportunities in clean hydrogen.

我們致力於高效運作和發展我們的核心工業氣體業務，同時追求清潔氫氣領域的策略性高成長和高回報機會。

Now please turn to slide 17.

現在請翻到投影片 17。

I want to expand on my comments about how we developed our clean hydrogen platform.

我想詳細闡述我對我們如何開發清潔氫平台的評論。

Clean hydrogen is not a new business for Air Products.

清潔氫氣對於空氣產品公司來說並不是一項新業務。

It's merely an extension of our existing core business.

它只是我們現有核心業務的延伸。

As I said, Air Products has been supplying hydrogen for more than 65 years over which time we have developed key customer relationships that span both the private and public sectors.

正如我所說，空氣產品公司供應氫氣已有超過 65 年的歷史，在此期間，我們已經建立了涵蓋私營和公共部門的重要客戶關係。

About 30 years ago, Air Products pioneered the on-site hydrogen business model to take or pay provisions and contractual pass through supplying hydrogen over defense to refineries in California.

大約 30 年前，空氣產品公司開創了現場氫氣商業模式，透過向加州煉油廠提供國防供應氫氣來收取或支付條款和合約。

We then gradually expanded to the US, Gulf Coast, Canada and Europe.

隨後我們逐漸擴展到美國、墨西哥灣沿岸、加拿大和歐洲。

We capitalized on global desulfurization regulations to ultimately become the world's largest hydrogen supplier with the most extensive hydrogen pipeline system.

我們利用全球脫硫法規，最終成為全球最大、最廣泛的氫氣管道系統的氫氣供應商。

Now we are well positioned to capitalize on the next phase of hydrogen development, which is clean hydrogen supported by the need to decarbonize hard to abate sectors.

現在，我們已做好充分利用氫能發展下一階段的準備，即清潔氫能，並得到難以減排產業脫碳需求的支持。

We moved first with focus and conviction to capture the important first mover advantages, which I will talk more about in a moment.

我們以專注和信念率先行動，以抓住重要的先發優勢，我稍後將詳細討論這一點。

Consistent with our traditional hydrogen business, clean hydrogen offtake will also follow the on-site business model, and we anticipate these projects will provide attractive returns.

與我們傳統的氫業務一致，清潔氫的承購也將遵循現場商業模式，我們預計這些項目將帶來可觀的回報。

Our strategic first mover actions are now creating the opportunity for us to become the world's largest clean hydrogen supplier.

我們的策略先行行動現在正在為我們成為世界上最大的清潔氫供應商創造機會。

Please turn to slide number 18.

請翻到第18張幻燈片。

There are clear advantages in moving first.

先行有明顯的優勢。

We have been able to secure optimum locations for renewable resources, including for areas with strong sun and wind generation at the same time to produce low cost green hydrogen.

我們已經能夠確保再生資源的最佳地點，包括同時擁有強大陽光和風力發電的地區，以生產低成本的綠色氫氣。

And for blue hydrogen, we have been able to gain access to the right geologies needed for carbon sequestration, which is the key enabler to making blue hydrogen.

對於藍氫，我們已經能夠獲得碳封存所需的正確地質條件，這是製造藍氫的關鍵推動因素。

As mentioned, we also have been able to apply more than 65 years of hydrogen and technology expertise, which sets us apart.

如前所述，我們也能夠應用超過 65 年的氫氣和技術專業知識，這使我們與眾不同。

Finally, as we have demonstrated, the first mover gets the best seat at the table with customers to negotiate the best offtake agreements.

最後，正如我們所證明的那樣，先行者在與客戶談判最佳承購協議時獲得了最佳席位。

On slide number 19, you can see an overview of the various regulatory drivers for clean hydrogen in Europe and Asia, focusing on heavy industry and transport sectors where battery electric meters are not effective.

在第 19 號投影片上，您可以看到歐洲和亞洲清潔氫的各種監管驅動因素的概述，重點是電池電錶不起作用的重工業和運輸業。

A wide range of industries need to decarbonize using clean hydrogen and we continue to extend our reach into these sectors.

許多行業需要使用清潔氫來脫碳，我們將繼續將業務範圍擴展到這些行業。

Now turning to slide number 20.

現在轉向第 20 號投影片。

Let me underscore the significant demand for clean hydrogen today.

讓我強調當今對清潔氫氣的巨大需求。

Various leading companies, including TotalEnergies, as one key example have issued request for quotation, requesting capacity equal to requirements that far exceed the capacity of our green hydrogen project and the construction in NEOM.

包括TotalEnergies在內的多家領先公司都發出了報價請求，要求的產能遠遠超過了我們綠色氫氣專案和NEOM建設的產能。

Taking a step back, TotalEnergies's RFQ or as large as it is 500,000 tonnes per day accounts for only 10% of gray hydrogen now used by European refineries.

退一步來說，TotalEnergies 的詢價量高達每天 50 萬噸，僅佔歐洲煉油廠目前使用的灰氫的 10%。

And the output of our NEOM project is less than 5% of the gray hydrogen used by European refineries.

而我們NEOM計畫的產量還不到歐洲煉油廠所使用的灰氫的5%。

And beyond refineries, there is demand for several other hard-to-abate sectors, including shipping and steelmaking.

除了煉油廠之外，其他幾個難以減少的行業也存在需求，包括航運和煉鋼。

This strong demand in the market today gives us great confidence in our ability to load the green hydrogen facility and their construction in NEOM.

當今市場的強勁需求使我們對 NEOM 裝載綠氫設施及其建設的能力充滿信心。

Turning to slide 21.

轉到投影片 21。

This demonstrates the sheer scale of the clean hydrogen industry in the coming years.

這顯示了未來幾年清潔氫產業的龐大規模。

Clean hydrogen is expected to be more than $600 billion market by 2030 and eventually exceed $1 trillion by 2050.

預計到 2030 年，清潔氫市場規模將超過 6,000 億美元，到 2050 年最終將超過 1 兆美元。

There is significant demand now, and that demand is expected to grow significantly over the long term.

現在需求很大，而且從長遠來看，這種需求預計將大幅成長。

Air Products, capturing even a very small portion of that demand means that we will be well positioned to deliver significant growth.

空氣產品公司即使只滿足這項需求的一小部分，也意味著我們將處於有利地位，能夠實現顯著成長。

To demonstrate how large this market opportunity is, Air Products currently approved clean hydrogen projects account for less than 1% of future market expectations.

為了證明這個市場機會有多大，空氣產品公司目前核准的清潔氫計畫僅佔未來市場預期的不到1%。

Before we discuss our key projects, please turn to slide number 22 with important takeaways about our strategy and disciplined approach to creating shareholder value.

在我們討論我們的關鍵項目之前，請參閱第 22 號投影片，其中包含有關我們創造股東價值的策略和嚴格方法的重要要點。

Our core industrial gases business remains fundamentally strong with industry leading adjusted EBITDA margin and solid GDP and industrial production growth.

我們的核心工業氣體業務依然強勁，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率處於行業領先，GDP 和工業生產保持穩健成長。

We are adding to this strong foundation by pursuing attractive growth opportunities in clean hydrogen.

我們正在透過尋求清潔氫領域有吸引力的成長機會來鞏固這一堅實的基礎。

Driven by decarbonization, future clean hydrogen demand is expected to be significant.

在脫碳的推動下，未來清潔氫需求預計將十分可觀。

We ultimately need to capture, as I said before, only a small portion of this anticipated high growth market for our initial projects to be successful.

正如我之前所說，我們最終只需佔領這個預期高成長市場的一小部分，我們的初始專案就能取得成功。

We believe favorable supply demand dynamics will enable us an attractive return on green hydrogen.

我們相信，有利的供需動態將使我們在綠氫方面獲得有吸引力的回報。

We are pursuing this strategy prudently and only approve new projects.

我們正在謹慎地推行這項策略，並且只批准新專案。

And I'd like to stress, only approve new projects after securing anchor customers.

我想強調的是，只有在獲得主力客戶後才批准新專案。

As we have said before, we will not take any final investment decision on new projects until our current facilities are loaded, at least, 75% or more.

正如我們之前所說，在我們現有設施的負荷至少達到 75% 或更多之前，我們不會對新項目做出任何最終投資決定。

We have focused teams within Air Products, executing these two pillar strategy.

我們在空氣產品公司內部擁有專注的團隊，執行這兩個支柱策略。

Our employees are dedicated to the ongoing success of both our core industrial gases business and our clean hydrogen business.

我們的員工致力於我們的核心工業氣體業務和清潔氫氣業務的持續成功。

Now I would like to take a moment to provide an update on our key project on slide number 24, where you can see an actual recent aerial photo of the NEOM project and their construction.

現在，我想花點時間在第 24 號幻燈片上介紹我們的關鍵項目的最新情況，您可以在其中看到 NEOM 項目及其施工的最新實際航拍照片。

I'd like to stress, this is a real project.

我想強調的是，這是一個真實的項目。

It's not a computer generated slide.

這不是電腦產生的幻燈片。

It covers the ammonia production site, the electrolyzer facility and the jetty.

它涵蓋氨生產場地、電解槽設施和碼頭。

Although this view covers a vast area, it does not capture the wind farms located 50 miles to the north near the Gulf of Aqaba, and the solar farms situated 40 miles to divest on the other side of the mountain range.

儘管該視圖覆蓋了廣闊的區域，但它沒有捕獲位於亞喀巴灣附近以北 50 英里處的風電場，以及位於山脈另一側 40 英里處待剝離的太陽能發電場。

We are full speed ahead on this project.

我們正在全速推進這個專案。

Please turn to slide number 25.

請翻到第 25 號投影片。

We have made immense progress on this green hydrogen project.

我們在這個綠氫計畫上取得了巨大進展。

Construction is about 60% complete, and we are on track to bring this facility on the stream at the end of 2026.

施工已完成約 60%，我們預計在 2026 年底將該設施投入使用。

There are 18,000 workers on the site building this facility today.

目前，該設施的施工現場有 18,000 名工人。

Importantly, roughly 35% of the total amount of the production has been contracted on a take or pay basis.

重要的是，大約 35% 的生產總量是按照照付不議的方式簽訂的。

Negotiations are underway for additional offtake which would exceed the production of the facility.

目前正在就超出該設施產量的額外承購量進行談判。

NEOM has been financed by 23 banks providing more than 70% of the total capital needed.

NEOM 已由 23 家銀行提供融資，提供了所需總資本的 70% 以上。

Air Products is investing about $800 million or less than 10% of the total project cost.

空氣產品公司投資約 8 億美元，不到專案總成本的 10%。

This is significantly less than the $1.7 billion that we originally projected for this project and illustrates our ability to execute highly successful project financing.

這大大低於我們最初為該專案預計的 17 億美元，這表明我們有能力執行非常成功的專案融資。

Now please turn to slide number 26.

現在請翻到第 26 號投影片。

In June of this year, we were delighted to announce a 15 year agreement to supply 70,000 tonnes of green hydrogen annually to TotalEnergies beginning in 2030.

今年 6 月，我們很高興地宣布一項為期 15 年的協議，從 2030 年開始每年向 TotalEnergies 供應 7 萬噸綠氫。

This was a milestone for us and the pay nature of this agreement will drive stability in growing our clean hydrogen business.

這對我們來說是一個里程碑，該協議的付費性質將推動我們清潔氫業務的穩定發展。

This pioneering agreement validates our clean hydrogen strategy and demonstrates significant demand for green hydrogen with one of the largest energy companies in the world.

這項開創性的協議驗證了我們的清潔氫策略，並表明與世界上最大的能源公司之一對綠氫的巨大需求。

Moving to slide 27.

轉到投影片 27。

Let me share the status of two other major clean hydrogen projects.

我來分享一下另外兩個主要清潔氫氣項目的情況。

First, our Canada Net Zero Hydrogen Energy Project.

首先，我們的加拿大淨零氫能源計畫。

We have committed 60% of the capacity on a long term take or pay contract, and we are in active discussion for the remainder of the capacity.

我們已在長期照付不議合約中承諾了 60% 的產能，並且我們正在積極討論剩餘產能。

As for our Louisiana project, the Blue Hydrogen project, we have submitted for permits, which we expect to be issued in '25 and '26, and we have received major pieces of equipment already in the site in readiness for construction work.

至於我們路易斯安那州的藍色氫項目，我們已經提交了許可證，預計將在 25 年和 26 年頒發，並且我們已經收到了已在現場準備施工的主要設備。

We are in active discussion for offtake from this facility, also in discussions with possible equity partnership and also assessing project financing for this project, and we will keep you updated as we move forward.

我們正在積極討論從該設施承購的事宜，也正在與可能的股權合作夥伴進行討論，並評估該專案的專案融資，隨著我們的進展，我們將隨時向您通報最新情況。

Moving to slide number 28.

轉到第 28 號投影片。

As we have said before, we have put a sustainable aviation fuel project in Paramount, California on hold until we get our full permits.

正如我們之前所說，我們已暫停加州派拉蒙的一個永續航空燃料項目，直到獲得完全許可。

With regard to the proposed $4.5 billion joint venture to produce green hydrogen in Northern Texas.

關於擬議的 45 億美元合資企業，在德克薩斯州北部生產綠氫。

This project never reached final investment decision.

該項目從未達成最終投資決定。

It does not meet our established guidelines for new low carbon project investments and therefore, we have stopped our involved in this project, and we have sold our development rights to our partners.

它不符合我們既定的新低碳項目投資準則，因此，我們已停止參與該項目，並將開發權出售給我們的合作夥伴。

Finally, on slide number 29.

最後，在第 29 號投影片。

You can see that we continue to focus on our core industrial gas business, which accounts for more than 50% of our total fiscal '23 to fiscal '25 CapEx.

您可以看到，我們繼續專注於我們的核心工業氣體業務，該業務占我們 23 財年至 25 財年資本支出總額的 50% 以上。

Much of that CapEx is focused on growth.

大部分資本支出都集中在成長。

Projects for core industrial gas business and clean hydrogen both need to meet or exceed our internal return targets.

核心工業氣體業務和清潔氫氣專案都需要達到或超過我們的內部回報目標。

We regularly evaluate alternative funding opportunities to optimize our cash allocation.

我們定期評估替代融資機會，以優化我們的現金配置。

Beginning in 2027, we anticipate meaningful decline in net debt to EBITDA ratio as well as possible net cash flow.

從 2027 年開始，我們預計淨債務與 EBITDA 比率以及可能的淨現金流量將大幅下降。

Now for an update on succession planning.

現在更新有關繼任計畫的資訊。

Please turn to slide number 33.

請翻到第 33 號投影片。

As this cost in our last earnings call, we have decided to bring into the company a fully qualified potential successor, (inaudible) and a member of our Board of Directors.

由於我們上次財報電話會議的成本，我們決定為公司引入一位完全合格的潛在繼任者（聽不清楚）和董事會成員。

This person should be well known to investors with a clear record of success, preferably a current or former CEO of a public company with significant international experience and relationships.

此人應該為具有明確成功記錄的投資者所熟知，最好是具有豐富國際經驗和關係的上市公司現任或前任執行長。

This Board driven process is being led by our Independent Director, Mr. Ed Monser with the support of the full Board and the executive firm,

這項董事會驅動的流程由我們的獨立董事 Ed Monser 先生領導，並得到全體董事會和執行公司的支持，

(inaudible).

（聽不清楚）。

I'm happy to say that qualified candidates have already been identified, and we are anticipating announcing the President's name in the first half of fiscal year 2025.

我很高興地說，合格的候選人已經確定，我們預計在 2025 財年上半年宣布總統的名字。

Now please turn to slide number 33.

現在請翻到第 33 號投影片。

At Air Products, our two pillar growth strategy includes running our core industrial gas business efficiently and continuing to invest and grow it.

在空氣產品公司，我們的兩大支柱成長策略包括高效運作我們的核心工業氣體業務以及繼續投資和發展它。

At the same time, levering our 65 years of hydrogen experience to serve the large high growth clean hydrogen market.

同時，利用我們 65 年的氫能經驗，服務龐大的高成長清潔氫市場。

We expect our clean hydrogen projects to achieve higher returns than our core industrial gas business.

我們預計我們的清潔氫氣專案將獲得比我們的核心工業氣體業務更高的回報。

And the thing all of this is our relentless focus on that (inaudible) strategic capital allocation.

這一切都是我們對（聽不清楚）策略資本配置的不懈關注。

Being a prudent steward of Air Products capital has been and will continue to be our top priority.

謹慎管理空氣產品公司的資本一直是並將繼續成為我們的首要任務。

Now please turn to slide number 34.

現在請翻到第 34 號投影片。

The people of Air Products are working hard every day to deliver for our customers, do so safely and deliver best in result profitability.

空氣產品公司的員工每天都在努力工作，安全地為我們的客戶提供服務，並實現最佳的盈利能力。

Our operating discipline, combined with our focus on delivering shareholder value gives us confidence as we enter into the next chapter of our growth at Air Products.

我們的營運紀律，加上我們對提供股東價值的關注，讓我們在進入空氣產品公司發展的下一個篇章時充滿信心。

And now we will be delighted to answer your questions.

現在我們很高興回答您的問題。

Operator?

操作員？

(Operator instructions)

（操作員說明）

John McNulty, BMO capital markets.

約翰·麥克納爾蒂 (John McNulty)，BMO 資本市場。

Yeah.

是的。

Good morning Selfi.

早安，自拍。

Maybe I can start with something on the more immediate term.

也許我可以從更近期的事情開始。

You've got some growth despite our difficult environment looking out to 2025 versus 2024.

儘管我們的環境很困難，但展望 2025 年與 2024 年，您還是取得了一些成長。

I guess can you help us to kind of basket that a bit?

我想你能幫我們把那個籃子弄一下嗎？

How much comes from price?

價格是多少？

How much comes from some of the new projects that you've been gradually ramping through '24?

您在 24 年期間逐步開展的一些新專案有多少收益？

And how much comes from core growth?

有多少來自核心成長？

Good morning John.

早安，約翰。

Thank you for your question.

謝謝你的提問。

John, for fiscal 2025, we obviously, one of our major concerns and unknowns is how does the demand develop in Asia.

約翰，對於 2025 財年，我們的主要擔憂和未知因素之一顯然是亞洲的需求如何發展。

We have a pretty decent handle on our opportunities in Middle East, in Europe and in America.

我們對中東、歐洲和美洲的機會把握得相當好。

The big unknown is China.

最大的未知數是中國。

That is why we have taken a conservative approach there.

這就是為什麼我們在那裡採取了保守的做法。

Things might change depending on what government does, but we are going to be conscious, cautious.

事情可能會根據政府的行動而改變，但我們會保持清醒、謹慎。

In terms of right now, our expectation for price overall is similar to last year, about 1% to 2% price increase.

就目前而言，我們對整體價格的預期與去年類似，約1%至2%的價格上漲。

Our volume growth are very much adjusted to the expected GDP and industrial production growth forecasted for the different regions in the world, which is not that much.

我們的銷售成長在很大程度上根據世界不同地區的預期 GDP 和工業生產成長進行了調整，但幅度並不大。

It's about to, sometimes 2%, 3%, depending on which area you are.

大約是，有時是2%、3%，這取決於你所在的地區。

And then we do not have too many significant large projects coming on stream.

而且我們並沒有太多重大的大型專案投產。

But we do have a lot of smaller projects coming on stream, which are going to contribute to our growth.

但我們確實有很多較小的項目即將投產，這將有助於我們的成長。

We feel pretty good about our fiscal year guidance.

我們對我們的財政年度指導感到非常滿意。

I have to admit that we are very conservative on the first quarter because of the immediate weakness that we see in China.

我必須承認，由於我們看到中國市場的直接疲軟，我們對第一季的看法非常保守。

Got it.

知道了。

Okay.

好的。

No, that's helpful color.

不，這是有用的顏色。

And then maybe I can just ask a question on Louisiana.

然後也許我可以問一個關於路易斯安那州的問題。

So you kind of mentioned a bunch of things going on there.

所以你提到了那裡發生的很多事情。

You're looking for offtake partners.

您正在尋找承購合作夥伴。

You're also looking for equity partners and maybe even project financing.

您還在尋找股權合作夥伴，甚至可能尋找專案融資。

I guess, can you speak to what you see as the ideal equity partnership arrangement that you're kind of pursuing at this point, and how we should be thinking about that?

我想，您能否談談您目前所追求的理想股權合夥安排，以及我們應該如何考慮這一點？

Well, the ideal thing would be to have equity partnership with somebody who's going to take offtake.

嗯，理想的情況是與將要承購的人建立股權合作關係。

So that's kind of the obvious solution.

這就是顯而易見的解決方案。

But there are a lot of people who are, have raised significant funds, so, called clean funds, and want to participate in equity with us.

但是有很多人已經籌集了大量資金，因此被稱為清潔基金，並且希望與我們一起參與股權投資。

But our preference, obviously, would be in somebody who is going to take offtake.

但顯然，我們更傾向於選擇將要起飛的人。

So it's less about coming up with a partner to take on some of the manufacturing or other certain parts of the project.

因此，尋找合作夥伴來承擔專案的某些製造或其他某些部分並不重要。

It's more about coming up with a partner for the offtake.

更重要的是找到承購合作夥伴。

Is that, am I thinking about that right?

是嗎，我想的對嗎？

No.

不。

I think we would be interested in partnering with people on the manufacturing part to equity participation in the entire project.

我認為我們有興趣與製造部分的人員合作，參股整個計畫。

Got it.

知道了。

Okay.

好的。

Thanks very much for the color.

非常感謝你的顏色。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jeff Zekauskas, JPMorgan.

傑夫‧澤考斯卡斯，摩根大通。

Thanks very much.

非常感謝。

I think that there are two prominent activists that seem to be involved in your products.

我認為有兩位著名的活動家似乎參與了你們的產品。

And one of them published a large slide deck, maybe generally speaking, all about the de-risking of various projects.

其中一個發布了一個大型幻燈片，也許一般來說，都是關於各種項目的去風險。

When you listen or look at the activist approach to Air Products, how do you reflect on it?

當您聆聽或看到空氣產品公司採取的激進態度時，您有何看法？

Is it something that leads you to change your behavior in any way or not change your behavior?

它是否會導致您以任何方式改變您的行為或不改變您的行為？

How do you assess the different new owners and your products and their ideas about the company?

您如何評估不同的新所有者和您的產品以及他們對公司的想法？

Jeff, thank you for your question.

傑夫，謝謝你的問題。

I mean Air Products has 220 million shares.

我的意思是空氣產品公司有 2.2 億股。

We have many, many investors, and we have respect for all of our investors.

我們有很多很多投資者，我們尊重所有投資者。

As you know very well, we meet very often with our investors, and we believe the view of all of the investors is as important as the view of one investor.

如您所知，我們經常與投資者會面，我們相信所有投資者的觀點與一位投資者的觀點同樣重要。

So I don't want to single out the fact that we listened to a particular investor.

因此，我不想指出我們聽取了特定投資者的意見這一事實。

We listen to all of our investors.

我們傾聽所有投資者的意見。

And the suggestions that have been made by all of our different investors is pretty consistent.

我們所有不同投資者提出的建議非常一致。

They want to us to focus on our base industrial gases business, which we are.

他們希望我們專注於我們的基礎工業氣體業務，而我們正是如此。

And they also want to make sure that we are investing in the developing clean hydrogen business in a responsible way.

他們還希望確保我們以負責任的方式投資發展清潔氫業務。

And we are obviously doing that.

顯然我們正在這樣做。

And all of our investors throughout the years always ask about succession planning, and we have always been very diligent about succession planning.

多年來我們所有的投資者總是詢問繼任計劃，我們一直非常勤奮地制定繼任計劃。

And we have now laid out very specifically what we want to do.

我們現在已經非常具體地闡述了我們想要做什麼。

So as I said, we listen to all of our shareholders, and we take their views very seriously and consider them and then act on them, if necessary.

正如我所說，我們聽取所有股東的意見，我們非常認真地考慮他們的意見，然後在必要時採取行動。

And then for my follow-up.

然後是我的後續行動。

I think on Slide 20, you said you expect to fully load NEOM before the on stream date.

我想在幻燈片 20 上，您說過您希望在上線日期之前完全加載 NEOM。

The commitment with Total, I think, is for 2030.

我認為道達爾的承諾是到 2030 年。

So does this fully loading NEOM mean that it would be fully loaded for 2027?

那麼這個滿載的NEOM是否意味著它會在2027年滿載呢？

Or does it mean that it would be fully loaded for 2030?

還是說2030年就滿載了？

In other words, from the assessment of the profit contribution of NEOM, should one expect a full loading for 2027, if you're mechanically complete at the end of 2026?

換句話說，從NEOM的利潤貢獻評估來看，如果2026年底機械完工，是否該預期2027年滿載？

Jeff, we expect to fully load NEOM, and we are working toward that in 2027.

Jeff，我們預計將完全載入 NEOM，我們正在努力在 2027 年實現這一目標。

Yes, that is our expectation.

是的，這就是我們的期望。

That is what we are working on because there are other customers beyond Total.

這就是我們正在努力的方向，因為除道達爾之外還有其他客戶。

Total, we got their permission to announce it publicly.

總而言之，我們得到了他們的許可，可以公開宣布這一消息。

With other people, we don't have such permission and then the time comes, we will announce that.

對於其他人，我們沒有這樣的許可，然後到了時候，我們會宣布這一點。

Okay, thank you so much.

好的，非常感謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Patrick Cunningham, Citi.

派崔克‧坎寧安，花旗銀行。

Hi.

你好。

Good morning.

早安.

I wanted to, with the LNG out of the business, what should we expect in terms of the corporate line for 2025?

我想，隨著液化天然氣業務的退出，我們對 2025 年的公司業務有何預期？

I know you've taken significant productivity actions.

我知道您已經採取了重大的生產力措施。

So what might be the offset from cost reduction on the corporate line?

那麼，企業生產線的成本削減可能會抵銷什麼影響呢？

Well, that's a very good question, and I'd like to give Melissa a chance to respond to that.

嗯，這是一個非常好的問題，我想給梅麗莎一個回答這個問題的機會。

Melissa?.

梅麗莎？

Yes.

是的。

Thank you, Seifi.

謝謝你，賽菲。

So LNG is about a 4% contributor or about $0.49 to the organization, obviously, evenly distributed throughout the quarters with some timing based on delivery of the product.

因此，液化天然氣對組織的貢獻約為 4% 或約 0.49 美元，顯然，在整個季度中均勻分配，並根據產品的交付進行一定的時間安排。

So we're seeing about a 4% headwind going into FY 2025 or again, about $0.49 for the full year.

因此，我們預計 2025 財年或將再次出現 4% 的阻力，全年約為 0.49 美元。

So if I may add to that, that means that during 2025, we obviously have taken and will continue to take actions in terms of productivity.

因此，如果我可以補充一點，那就意味著在 2025 年期間，我們顯然已經並將繼續在生產力方面採取行動。

And we obviously have growth from the, as I said, smaller projects, and we hope that strong economic activity that we saw in the US will continue in 2025, which we think it will.

正如我所說，我們顯然從較小的項目中獲得了成長，我們希望我們在美國看到的強勁經濟活動將在 2025 年持續下去，我們認為會如此。

And in Europe, we have opportunities for some of our on-sites to do a little bit better than they did last year.

在歐洲，我們的一些現場有機會比去年做得更好一些。

Understood.

明白了。

Very helpful.

非常有幫助。

And could you provide a more general update on the World Energy project?

您能否提供有關世界能源項目的更全面的最新情況？

What is holding up the permitting process?

是什麼阻礙了許可程序？

Is there anything about the relationship or project budget that we should know there?

那裡有什麼我們應該了解的關係或專案預算嗎？

What is holding up permit was the fact that the permit that was issued was challenged by some people who call themselves environmentalist, that they are doing an environmental-friendly project, but they go and object to our permit.

許可證被擱置的原因是，我們頒發的許可證受到了一些自稱環保主義者的質疑，他們說他們正在做一個環保項目，但他們卻去反對我們的許可證。

But, so that is what is holding it out.

但是，這就是支撐它的原因。

And we have decided that we do not want to take the risk of building the project and continuing with the project, and then get challenged again.

我們決定不想冒險建造該項目並繼續該項目，然後再次受到挑戰。

So we want to make sure we have all of the permits before we go forward.

因此，我們要確保在繼續之前獲得所有許可。

That's the reason we have put that project on hold.

這就是我們擱置該專案的原因。

In terms of our relationship with our partners there, the relationship within Air Products and Board Energy is excellent, and we are working in concert, hand-in-hand to make that project a success for investment.

就我們與那裡的合作夥伴的關係而言，空氣產品公司和Board Energy內部的關係非常好，我們正在齊心協力，攜手努力，使該項目取得投資成功。

At the same time, as I say on the slides, Air Products is looking at other alternatives for that project because some people have expressed interest in kind of buying us out of that project and we, obviously, will listen to all alternatives.

同時，正如我在幻燈片上所說，空氣產品公司正在尋找該項目的其他替代方案，因為有些人表示有興趣購買我們的該項目，顯然，我們會聽取所有替代方案。

Understood.

明白了。

Thank you so much.

太感謝了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Steve Byrne, Bank of America.

史蒂夫伯恩，美國銀行。

Yes.

是的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

I wanted to just drill into NEOM a bit more.

我想進一步深入了解 NEOM。

Seifi, four years ago, I believe you were talking about a downstream CapEx budget for NEON of $2 billion.

Seifi，四年前，我相信您談論的是 NEON 20 億美元的下游資本支出預算。

What is the status of that now given, I think, back then, you your focus was Asia.

現在的狀況如何，我想，當時你的關注點是亞洲。

It's now Europe.

現在是歐洲。

Do you have a strategy of what do you need to invest in Europe to distribute the green ammonia and then crack to hydrogen?

您是否有在歐洲需要投資什麼來分配綠色氨然後裂解為氫氣的策略？

Perhaps comment also on your ammonia cracking technology and the efficiency.

也許還可以評論一下你們的氨裂解技術和效率。

And just lastly on that, the 35% seems more than Total.

最後一點，35% 似乎比 Total 還要高。

Does that mean you've picked up other long-term take or pay contracts?

這是否意味著您已經簽訂了其他長期照付不議合約？

Well, thank you for your questions.

好的，謝謝你的提問。

The amount of investment in the downstream, obviously, depends on who the final end customers are.

下游的投資金額顯然取決於最終的最終客戶是誰。

But $2 billion order of magnitude for that is in the ballpark, but it might be a lot less than that depending on who the actual customers are going to be.

但 20 億美元的數量級是大概的，但根據實際客戶是誰，可能會比這個數字少很多。

In terms of, as I said, there are a lot of ways to sell the product out of that plant.

正如我所說，有很多方法可以從該工廠銷售產品。

One is to take it, crack it and put it in a refinery.

一種是把它拿走，裂解，然後放進煉油廠。

Another one is that some people might be interested in just buying the ammonia FOB NEOM and using it for applications where you don't need cracking.

另一個原因是，有些人可能有興趣購買氨 FOB NEOM 並將其用於不需要裂解的應用。

So there is a lot of different possibilities there.

所以那裡有很多不同的可能性。

And as we finalize the contracts, we will give you more visibility on that.

當我們最終確定合約時，我們將為您提供更多資訊。

And maybe just one more on this.

也許還有一個關於這一點。

Europe prefers the pathway forward being green, not blue.

歐洲更喜歡綠色的前進道路，而不是藍色的道路。

If that were to change for economic reasons, what would be your end-market outlook for NEOM under that kind of a scenario?

如果這種情況因經濟原因而改變，那麼在這種情況下，您對 NEOM 的最終市場前景有何看法？

Well, first of all, can I may just make a comment.

好吧，首先，我可以發表評論嗎？

We are committed to low carbon hydrogen, green and blue.

我們致力於低碳氫、綠藍。

That is why we are doing the projects in NEOM for Green, and the project in Louisiana for blue because we think the lowest cost place to produce green is in Northern Saudi Arabia, and the lowest cost place to produce blue is in US Gulf Coast.

這就是為什麼我們在 NEOM 開展綠色項目，在路易斯安那州開展藍色項目，因為我們認為生產綠色成本最低的地方是沙烏地阿拉伯北部，而生產藍色成本最低的地方是美國墨西哥灣沿岸。

That no place in the world can compete with the US Gulf Coast because of the low natural gas.

由於天然氣含量低，世界上沒有任何地方可以與美國墨西哥灣沿岸地區競爭。

But more importantly, when people talk about blue, they need to keep in mind, you can only make blue if you have a place to sequester the CO2, and it is not that easy to find those places.

但更重要的是，當人們談論藍色時，他們需要記住，只有有地方可以封存二氧化碳，才能製造藍色，而要找到這些地方並不容易。

So we are committed to both of them.

因此，我們致力於兩者。

And we look at those opportunities in an equal way.

我們以平等的方式看待這些機會。

We don't have any preference for one or another.

我們對其中之一沒有任何偏好。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

David Begleiter, Deutsche Bank.

大衛‧貝格萊特，德意志銀行。

This is David Huang here for Dave.

我是戴維‧黃 (David Huang)。

I guess, one of the concerns investors have, had done your large headcount increase since you started the journey in green hydrogen.

我想，自從你們開始綠氫之旅以來，投資者的擔憂之一就是你們的大量員工增加。

How much of the headcount increase through the year is related to the clean hydrogen projects?

今年增加的員工人數中有多少與清潔氫氣項目有關？

And if you can talk about how the staff is being deployed to support these projects.

您能否談談如何部署員工來支援這些項目。

And additionally, I guess, given the SAF project that's on hold and you're no longer pursuing the Texas project.

此外，我想，考慮到 SAF 項目已被擱置，並且您不再追求德克薩斯州項目。

Are there any opportunities to reduce some costs here in the near term?

短期內是否有機會降低一些成本？

And how should we think about the scale if you have any of those plans?

如果您有這些計劃，我們應該如何考慮規模？

Well, the thing is that I think we need to explain that because the big headcount increase was in order to engineer NEOM and our blue hydrogen project and several other projects that we have.

好吧，我認為我們需要解釋一下，因為人員大幅增加是為了設計 NEOM 和我們的藍氫項目以及我們擁有的其他幾個項目。

So those headcounts are going to come down, but they are not going to affect our bottom line because those costs are capitalized as part of the capital.

因此，這些員工人數將會減少，但不會影響我們的利潤，因為這些成本已資本化為資本的一部分。

So our earnings per share and so on was not being affected by those increases.

因此，我們的每股盈餘等並未受到這些成長的影響。

We did have increased costs, significant increased costs in terms of development costs, while we were developing those projects.

當我們開發這些項目時，我們的成本確實增加了，開發成本的成本顯著增加。

Those costs are going to come down.

這些成本將會下降。

And I'm sure that you have taken a look at our SG&A line, and you see that our SG&A for the quarter is less than last year's quarter and for the year, it's less than last year.

我確信您已經查看了我們的 SG&A 線，您會發現我們本季的 SG&A 低於去年季度，全年也低於去年。

So the headcount thing, which went up is going to come down.

因此，增加的員工人數將會下降。

But in terms of our bottom line, we are going to continue march, to march toward the 8%, 9%, 10% growth in EPS as we have done in the past 10 years.

但就我們的底線而言，我們將繼續前進，朝著每股收益 8%、9%、10% 的成長邁進，就像我們在過去 10 年所做的那樣。

And at this point in time.

而此時此刻。

No, I was just going to say at this time, other than NEOM, most of the engineering is basically done.

不，我這個時候就想說，除了NEOM，大部分工程都基本完成了。

We are working on engineering on our project in Louisiana and one or two other projects in Texas and our Edmonton project.

我們正在路易斯安那州的項目、德克薩斯州的一兩個其他項目以及埃德蒙頓項目進行工程設計。

Other than that, we are not working on any other major projects.

除此之外，我們沒有進行任何其他重大項目。

And as you so saw, we just canceled any commitment or any engineering effort that we are going, we were spending on the North Texas green hydrogen project because it did not meet our criteria, which was that we do not make final investment decision until we have an anchor customer and until we have loaded 75% of our existing facilities.

正如您所看到的，我們剛剛取消了我們正在進行的任何承諾或任何工程工作，我們在北德克薩斯州綠氫項目上進行了支出，因為它不符合我們的標準，即我們不會做出最終的投資決定，直到我們擁有一個固定客戶，直到我們現有設施的負載達到 75%。

So as a result, there are not too many other projects in the pipeline.

因此，沒有太多其他項目正在醞釀中。

We always think about these things and so on, but we will only move on those once those criteria are met.

我們總是會考慮這些事情等等，但只有在滿足這些標準後才會繼續這些事情。

Okay, thanks.

好的，謝謝。

Yes.

是的。

And then just another question on Alberta.

然後是關於艾伯塔省的另一個問題。

Just to clarify, this is not included in your FY25 guidance?

只是澄清一下，這沒有包含在您的 25 財年指導中嗎？

And if not, when do you expect the plant to start up?

如果沒有，您預計工廠什麼時候會啟動？

No significant income is included in our fiscal year 2025 income for that project.

我們該專案的 2025 財年收入中沒有包含重大收入。

Yes.

是的。

Okay, thanks.

好的，謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

John Roberts, Mizuho.

約翰·羅伯茨，瑞穗。

Thanks Seifi, I'm guessing the Board has already been maintaining some level of contact with potential President candidates that could be available on short notice, especially since the departure of Dr. Serhan.

謝謝 Seifi，我猜董事會已經與潛在的總統候選人保持了一定程度的聯繫，這些聯繫可以在短時間內進行，特別是自從 Serhan 博士離開後。

Do you think the search for a President could be over before the proxy is filed for the Shareholder Meeting?

您認為在向股東會提交委託書之前，總裁的搜尋工作是否可以結束？

slides 31 suggests it could go beyond the Shareholder Meeting.

第 31 張投影片表明，會議的範圍可能不限於股東大會。

Well, at this point in time, I do not expect for us to name a President until March, April, May.

嗯，目前，我預計我們要到三月、四月、五月才能任命總統。

We have identified very highly qualified people.

我們已經確定了非常高素質的人才。

They are being interviewed by our Board.

他們正在接受我們董事會的面試。

And going through the process, I mean, choosing the President for Air Products, we have to go through the process.

我的意思是，在選擇空氣產品公司總裁時，我們必須經歷這個過程。

Our Board needs to feel very comfortable and they need to meet the criteria that I set out that we want people who have been CEOs of public companies.

我們的董事會需要感到非常舒服，他們需要滿足我設定的標準，即我們希望人們擔任上市公司的執行長。

People who have not been CEOs of public companies do not qualify.

沒有擔任過上市公司執行長的人沒有資格。

So the process is underway.

所以這個過程正在進行中。

I just wanted to give you an update, but we have no expectation of announcing a President before as I said, before March, April, May, depending on the availability of the people because if these people are CEOs of current companies, they have obligations to unbind their present position.

我只是想向您提供最新情況，但正如我所說，我們並不期望在三月、四月、五月之前宣布一位總裁，具體取決於人員的可用性，因為如果這些人是現任公司的首席執行官，他們就有義務解除他們目前的地位的束縛。

So it's not going to be, you can't snap your finger and have them start.

所以不會的，你不能打個響指就讓他們開始。

That's all I have.

這就是我所擁有的一切。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks you so much.

非常感謝你。

We'll move next to Chris Parkinson with Wolf Research.

接下來我們將與 Wolf Research 的 Chris Parkinson 進行交流。

Thank you so much.

太感謝了。

Great.

偉大的。

Seifi, regarding the Louisiana project, obviously, it's fairly sizable, and there's a lot of focus on both manufacturing as well as the offtake agreements in terms of redistributing potentially some of that project risk.

Seifi，關於路易斯安那州項目，顯然，它相當大，而且在重新分配潛在的一些項目風險方面，人們非常關注製造和承購協議。

However, one of the things that's been on my mind, and I think a lot of investors has been just the, given the size of the facility, just the construction outlay and how to think about the various units going into that, just relative to the size of everything else that's been done in the United States over the last decade or 1.5 decades.

然而，我一直在考慮的一件事是，我認為很多投資者只是考慮到設施的規模、建設支出以及如何考慮涉及其中的各個單元，只是相對於相當於美國在過去10 年或1.5 年裡所做的一切事情的規模。

So can you perhaps just give us a little bit more detail on the various stages on how we should be thinking about that development or evolution of that project?

那麼，您能否為我們提供有關各個階段的更多詳細信息，以了解我們應該如何考慮該項目的開發或演變？

And whether or not it has to be all at once or you're thinking about in various stages, perhaps one through three?

是否必須一次性完成，或者您是否正在考慮各個階段，也許是一到三個階段？

Just any color there would be particularly helpful.

任何顏色都會特別有幫助。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Well, thank you very much, Chris, for your very thoughtful question.

嗯，非常感謝克里斯，提出了一個非常周到的問題。

The project in Louisiana, the most important part of that project was finding a place that is credible and proven that you can see across the CO2.

路易斯安那州的項目，該項目最重要的部分是找到一個可靠且經過證明可以看到二氧化碳的地方。

We have achieved that.

我們已經實現了這個目標。

We have identified sites.

我們已經確定地點了。

We have the rights to that.

我們有權利這樣做。

We have done extensive work, spent about $75 million with seismic studies and so on to prove that it is possible to sequester CO2 in there.

我們做了大量的工作，花費了大約 7500 萬美元進行地震研究等，以證明在那裡封存二氧化碳是可能的。

We have submitted all of that to the Louisiana Department of Environmental Resources for an application for a Class 6 well.

我們已向路易斯安那州環境資源部提交了所有這些申請 6 級井。

We have gotten feedback that our application is complete.

我們已收到回饋，表明我們的申請已完成。

That means that they accept that they have done all of the work.

這意味著他們承認自己已經完成了所有工作。

And now they need to wait until they make that assessment and issue the final permit for us to construct that.

現在他們需要等到他們做出評估並向我們頒發建造該專案的最終許可證。

That was the major risk for that project.

這是該項目的主要風險。

The rest of the project, what is it?

專案的其餘部分是什麼？

It is making the hydrogen that we know how to do.

我們知道如何製造氫氣。

It is (inaudible) units, it's our own technology.

這是（聽不清楚）單位，是我們自己的技術。

We have similar units in operation around the world.

我們在世界各地都有類似的設備在運作。

And therefore, there is no technology risk there.

因此，那裡不存在技術風險。

And then the ammonia plant is the ammonia plant, everybody is very familiar with ammonia plants.

然後合成氨裝置就是合成氨裝置，合成氨裝置大家都很熟悉。

So we are not taking any technology risk, the CO2 sequestration is secure.

因此，我們不承擔任何技術風險，二氧化碳封存是安全的。

And now it is the question of how fast we build this thing?

現在的問題是我們建造這個東西的速度有多快？

We have said previously that this project, we expect to come on stream sometime in 2028, depending on the timing of the permits.

我們之前曾說過，該項目預計將於 2028 年某個時候投產，具體取決於許可的時間。

We feel pretty good about that.

我們對此感覺很好。

We feel pretty good about the number that we have announced publicly about $7 billion.

我們對我們公開宣布的約 70 億美元的數字感到非常滿意。

So right now, our task is, we don't want to spend $7 billion of Air Products capital into the project.

所以現在，我們的任務是，我們不想將空氣產品公司 70 億美元的資金投入到這個專案中。

So the issue is how do we finance this thing to be financing the way we finance NEOM?

所以問題是我們如何為這個東西提供資金，就像我們為 NEOM 提供資金一樣？

Do we bring in an equity partner.

我們是否引入股權合作夥伴？

Those are the things that we are evaluating.

這些就是我們正在評估的事情。

And in the meantime, we are not in a hurry.

同時，我們並不著急。

We have time.

我們有時間。

We have done most of the engineering.

我們已經完成了大部分工程。

We are going to start bringing contractors that the engineering is done so that we can get lump sum prices from the contractors.

我們將開始讓承包商完成工程，以便我們可以從承包商那裡獲得一次性價格。

So we are executing this project in a very prudent way and trying to find the optimum way for us to finance the project.

因此，我們正在以非常謹慎的方式執行這個項目，並試圖找到為該項目融資的最佳方式。

In terms of the demand for the product, we feel very good about that because the demand is not only decarbonizing and reducing the use of coal in Asia but another significant demand, which is developing, as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, is ammonia as a direct fuel for ships.

就產品需求而言，我們對此感到非常滿意，因為需求不僅是脫碳和減少亞洲煤炭的使用，而且正如我在準備好的演講中提到的那樣，另一個正在發展的重要需求是氨，船舶的直接燃料。

Low carbon pneumonia using a direct fuel for ships significantly reduces the emissions.

船舶使用直接燃料的低碳肺炎可顯著減少排放。

It makes ships comply and it is very attractive to the people who ship their product across the board because that helps them to decarbonize their Scope 3 emissions.

它使船舶合規，並且對全面運輸其產品的人們非常有吸引力，因為這有助於他們減少範圍 3 排放。

So we feel very good about that project.

所以我們對這個項目感覺非常好。

And as I said, as we move forward, we'll update you about the progress on all of those fronts.

正如我所說，隨著我們的前進，我們將向您通報所有這些方面的最新進展。

That's very helpful.

這非常有幫助。

And just a real quick one here.

這裡只是一個真正的快速的。

Regarding the CapEx of the NEOM, the $2 billion of the offtake, you mentioned a few questions ago that there could be a material difference between the initial expectation.

關於 NEOM 的資本支出，即 20 億美元的承購，您之前提到了幾個問題，即與最初的預期可能存在重大差異。

And I believe it was everything to Asia and Europe in terms of transportation, buses and everything else we discussed back in 2020.

我相信，就交通、巴士以及我們在 2020 年討論的所有其他方面而言，這對亞洲和歐洲來說至關重要。

But if we just took something such as the Total agreement and said, hey, that's roughly one-third of the production, let's call that of the original amount, $667 million.

但如果我們只是採取諸如道達爾協議之類的內容，然後說，嘿，這大約是產量的三分之一，我們將其稱為原始金額的 6.67 億美元。

What's the difference roughly, just purely roughly of kind of that implied number of what, let's say, the legacy thought process and what you could be looking at today?

粗略地說，純粹粗略地說，遺留思考過程和你今天可能看到的隱含數量有什麼區別？

I mean is that like a 10% difference of to refineries in Europe?

我的意思是，這與歐洲煉油廠有 10% 的差異嗎？

Or is that something that could be more significant like a 30% or 40% difference in terms of like how we're thinking about the offtake CapEx of the project?

或者，就我們如何考慮專案的承購資本支出而言，這是否可能更重要，例如 30% 或 40% 的差異？

Thank you so much.

太感謝了。

Well, thank you very much.

嗯，非常感謝。

I'm just trying to fully digest your questions, Chris.

我只是想完全消化你的問題，克里斯。

In terms of, you're asking a very good question.

就而言，你問了一個非常好的問題。

But fundamentally, originally, when we announced the project, we said that we will need $3.7 billion of cash.

但從根本上說，最初，當我們宣布該項目時，我們說我們將需要 37 億美元的現金。

And we broke it down to $1.7 billion invested in the project and $2 billion for so-called terminals to sell it.

我們將其細分為該項目投資 17 億美元，以及用於所謂終端銷售的 20 億美元。

What we are saying is that $1.7 billion investment in the production is now $800 million because we were able to successfully project finance this.

我們所說的是，17 億美元的製作投資現在已達到 8 億美元，因為我們能夠成功地進行專案融資。

The $2 billion for the downstream part, I can make a commitment exactly what that would be, whether it's half of it, 10% lower and so on until they finalize who the offtakers are.

下游部分的 20 億美元，我可以準確地做出承諾，無論是一半，還是低 10% 等等，直到他們最終確定承購商是誰。

So that's where we are, Chris, okay?

這就是我們現在的情況，克里斯，好嗎？

So all in all, in terms of, yes, our total commitment from before, the number has not really changed.

總而言之，就我們先前的總承諾而言，這個數字並沒有真正改變。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Thank you very much, sir.

非常感謝您，先生。

Mike Sison, Wells Fargo.

麥克西森，富國銀行。

Hey, good morning.

嘿，早安。

Seifi, traditional hydrogen projects, historically, you tend to sell that out with offtakes when you sign them.

Seifi，傳統的氫項目，從歷史上看，當你簽署這些項目時，你往往會連同承購權一起出售。

Was that the case when you sort of created the business, 60 to 65 years ago?

60 到 65 年前，您在創建這家公司時也是這種情況嗎？

And do you think at some point for the clean hydrogen projects that, that demand will be big enough when you announce the project, you'll have offtakes immediately?

您是否認為在某個時候，對於清潔氫項目，當您宣布該項目時，需求將足夠大，您將立即獲得承購？

That is kind of what I was trying to allude to when I said that in the future, we will not take an FID on any clean hydrogen project and here, we will have an anchor customer.

當我說未來我們不會對任何清潔氫項目進行最終投資決定時，這就是我試圖暗示的，在這裡，我們將擁有一個固定客戶。

Just like our industrial gases business, when we go and sell oxygen to a steel plant, we built the air separation unit, 50% of the offtake is guaranteed with the take or pay to the steelmaker, and then the other 50% is merchant at what we do.

就像我們的工業氣體業務一樣，當我們向鋼鐵廠出售氧氣時，我們建造了空氣分離裝置，50％的承購量通過向鋼鐵製造商的收付來保證，然後另外50％在商業上進行銷售我們做什麼。

So we are saying that in the future, we wanted to be the first mover.

所以我們說，在未來，我們想成為先行者。

We did what we did with NEOM and with Darrow and it has turned out to be a good experience.

我們做了與 NEOM 和 Darrow 一樣的事情，結果證明這是一次很好的體驗。

We are trying, we are seeing that we can load these facilities.

我們正在努力，我們看到我們可以加載這些設施。

Now we are saying that in the future, we are not going to announce a project without having, I'm telling you, a clear view of who will take 50%, 60% of the product on a long-term basis.

現在我們說，在未來，我告訴你，如果沒有清楚地了解誰會長期佔據該產品的 50%、60%，我們就不會宣布一個專案。

Is that okay?

可以嗎？

Yes, that's great.

是的，那太好了。

And then just a quick follow-up.

然後進行快速跟進。

When you think about your earnings growth for 25%, 6% to 9%, I understand it's, the economic environment isn't great.

當你想到你的收入成長 25%、6% 到 9% 時，我明白，經濟環境並不好。

But if you think about longer term and you execute well on your pretty well publicized growth strategy, '26, '27, '28, what do you think that growth rate should pick up to as your clean energy projects kick in with the growth from your core industrial gas business?

但是，如果您考慮更長期的情況，並且您很好地執行了廣為人知的增長戰略，'26，'27，'28，那麼您認為隨著清潔能源項目的增長，增長率應該達到多少？核心工業氣體業務？

Well, I think that if we put everything together and things work out the way we think it is, we will be able to deliver about 9%, 10%, '25, '26.

嗯，我認為，如果我們把所有事情放在一起，並且事情按照我們想像的方式進行，我們將能夠實現大約 9%、10%、'25、'26。

And then '27, '28 can be significantly higher than that because these projects coming on stream with the kind of volumes that they are talking about, we can have significant growth higher than 10%.

然後「27」、「28」可能會顯著高於這個數字，因為這些項目的投產量達到了他們所說的數量，我們可以實現高於 10% 的顯著增長。

That's why I feel confident that to say that for the next 10 years, considering what is going on, I think Air Products will deliver, at least, 10% growth in EPS as we go forward, at least.

這就是為什麼我有信心地說，在未來 10 年，考慮到正在發生的事情，我認為空氣產品公司將在我們前進的過程中實現至少 10% 的每股收益成長。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Josh Spector, UBS.

喬許‧斯佩克特，瑞銀集團。

Yeah.

是的。

Hi, good morning.

嗨，早安。

I wanted to ask a question on the NEOM offtake.

我想問一個關於 NEOM 承購的問題。

There's just been some chatter, I guess, more recently around some finer details around that contract.

我想，最近圍繞該合約的一些細節發生了一些爭論。

So you highlighted take or pay.

所以你強調了照付不議。

You mentioned you're comfortable with the returns.

您提到您對回報感到滿意。

I guess some of the questions have been if there's any qualifying events, be it regulatory or credits that need to be put in place before that contract goes into effect or whether you would say what you have today is more Iron Cloud, there's nothing that needs to happen for that to hit your return targets?

我想有些問題是，是否有任何資格賽，無論是在合約生效之前需要落實的監管或積分，還是你會說你今天擁有的更多是鐵雲，沒有什麼需要的是否會達到您的回報目標？

Well, that's very detailed question about the details of the contract.

嗯，這是關於合約細節的非常詳細的問題。

We are continuing to negotiate the details, but I have my Chief Legal Officer, Mr. Sean Major, who was very instrumental in negotiating that contract.

我們正在繼續談判細節，但我的首席法務官肖恩·梅傑先生在合約談判中發揮了重要作用。

So I think it's better if I turn it over to him to try to amplify on that.

所以我認為最好將其交給他來嘗試放大這一點。

Sean?

肖恩？

Yes.

是的。

Thank you, Seifi.

謝謝你，賽菲。

We are generally comfortable with that contract.

我們總體上對該合約感到滿意。

It's consistent with similar offtake agreements, and we're fully confident that, that will be fully operational, consistent with the terms of the agreement.

它與類似的承購協議一致，我們完全有信心該協議將全面投入運行，符合協議條款。

Okay?

好的？

Okay.

好的。

Yes, I appreciate that.

是的，我很欣賞這一點。

And just on another note, if I could just ask on your approach to project returns when using leverage or not using leverage.

另一方面，我是否可以詢問您在使用或不使用槓桿時的項目回報方法。

I guess, now a couple of your bigger products, you're talking about using more leverage.

我想，現在你們的一些更大的產品，你們正在談論使用更多的槓桿。

Do you expect that when you employ project financing, are you targeting a higher equity return?

您是否期望在採用專案融資時，您的目標是更高的股權回報？

Or is that still in the framework that you would target that greater than 10%, 12% return?

或者這仍然在您設定的高於 10%、12% 回報率的目標框架內嗎？

So how should investors kind of work that into our framework of what the flow-through is on Air Products' equity return from investments?

那麼，投資人應該如何將其納入我們的空氣產品公司投資股權回報流量框架中呢？

Well, I'm very happy that you asked the question.

嗯，我很高興你問了這個問題。

We evaluate the projects on the basis of unlevered IRR.

我們根據無槓桿內部報酬率評估項目。

That is our criteria.

這是我們的標準。

Then later on, if we are able to project finance it, obviously, hopefully, the financing is less than our cost of capital.

然後，如果我們能夠為其提供專案融資，顯然，希望融資低於我們的資本成本。

And therefore, the return on equity will be higher than the IRR.

因此，股本報酬率將高於內部報酬率。

So we do not approve projects on the basis of leverage.

所以我們不會根據槓桿來批准專案。

It is all unlevered.

這一切都是無槓桿的。

And then if we are able to finance it, then obviously, will improve the return on equity that Air Products has put into the project.

如果我們能夠為其提供資金，那麼顯然，將提高空氣產品公司投入該專案的股本回報率。

Is that okay?

可以嗎？

Yeah, very clear.

是的，非常清楚。

Thank you so much.

太感謝了。

Kevin McCarthy, Vertical Research Partners.

凱文·麥卡錫，垂直研究夥伴。

Yes, thank you and good morning.

是的，謝謝你，早安。

Seifi, on slide 29, you indicate that you would expect to return to a positive net cash flow position starting in 2027, and I was wondering if you could elaborate on some of the assumptions behind that goal.

Seifi，在投影片 29 上，您表示您預計從 2027 年開始將恢復正的淨現金流狀況，我想知道您是否可以詳細說明該目標背後的一些假設。

For example, would it be contingent upon bringing in a partner and, or project financing in Louisiana or could you get there on an organic basis, so to speak, without the benefit of those actions?

例如，這是否取決於在路易斯安那州引入合作夥伴和/或專案融資，或者您能否在有機的基礎上實現這一目標，可以這麼說，而不需要這些行動的好處？

And perhaps there are other assumptions you might like to speak to.

也許您還想討論其他假設。

Thank you very much, Kevin for the question.

非常感謝凱文提出的問題。

I'd like to turn that over to Melissa to answer that.

我想把這個問題交給梅莉莎來回答。

Melissa?

梅麗莎？

Sure.

當然。

Thank you, Seifi.

謝謝你，賽菲。

So our current assumption does not have project financing or equity partnership built into the assumptions.

因此，我們目前的假設並沒有將專案融資或股權合作納入假設中。

This is purely the timing of our onstream and the ramp up of those projects.

這純粹是我們投產和這些項目加速的時間安排。

So again, no project financing or equity partnerships built into those assumptions.

同樣，這些假設中沒有建立任何專案融資或股權合作夥伴關係。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay, John.

好吧，約翰。

Thanks, Yes.

謝謝，是的。

Seifi, if I may, I wanted to ask also on slide 21 and 22, you provide some detail regarding the future growth of clean hydrogen.

Seifi，如果可以的話，我還想在幻燈片 21 和 22 上詢問，您提供了有關清潔氫未來增長的一些細節。

I think the source of that is a Deloitte study from 2023, and so I'm curious, some of your peers inside and perhaps also outside the industrial gas industry have talked about some attenuation of time lines and some uncertainties on the regulatory and economic side.

我認為其來源是德勤 2023 年的一項研究，所以我很好奇，工業氣體行業內部甚至外部的一些同行都談到了時間線的一些衰減以及監管和經濟方面的一些不確定性。

So my question would be, how does your internal view today compare with this forecast?

所以我的問題是，您今天的內部觀點與這個預測相比如何？

Is it better or worse or perhaps similar?

它是更好還是更差或可能相似？

If you look at it perhaps on a bottom up basis, given your unique insights and conversations you're having all over the world, how would you describe that trajectory relative to the way it was in 2023?

如果您以自下而上的方式看待它，考慮到您獨特的見解和您在世界各地進行的對話，您會如何描述相對於 2023 年的軌跡？

Again, an excellent question.

這又是一個很好的問題。

We are actually, what we see is more bullish than on those slides and those projections.

事實上，我們所看到的比那些投影片和預測更樂觀。

The reason is that when you say other people, other people don't have anything to sell.

原因是，當你說其他人時，其他人沒有東西可賣。

And as a result, they are not engaged with the people who want to buy.

結果，他們沒有與想要購買的人接觸。

I mean, why would anybody go and talk to one of our competitors, then they don't have the plan.

我的意思是，為什麼有人會去和我們的競爭對手交談，因為他們沒有計劃。

We are the ones who are engaged with real customers.

我們是與真實客戶互動的人。

So we have a much better view.

所以我們有更好的視野。

This is one of the things about being the first mover.

這是成為先行者的原因之一。

I mean, if you are a customer, if you're a steel plant, if you're a refinery, and you want to make a commitment about going to green hydrogen, it is a hell of a difference between us sitting across the table with them and showing them a picture of NEOM rather than somebody saying that, well, I might have a project in Timbuktu that might produce green hydrogen in the future.

我的意思是，如果你是客戶，如果你是一家鋼鐵廠，如果你是煉油廠，並且你想做出使用綠氫的承諾，那麼坐在桌子對面的我們之間就有天壤之別和他們一起並向他們展示NEOM 的照片，而不是有人說，好吧，我可能在廷巴克圖有一個項目，將來可能會生產綠氫。

So we have a much better visibility in terms of what the real demand is and what the real customers are talking about.

因此，我們可以更好地了解真正的需求是什麼以及真正的客戶在談論什麼。

So as I said, we are obviously very excited about the opportunities, and we see that growing every day because more and more people are talking to us.

正如我所說，我們顯然對這些機會感到非常興奮，而且我們看到這種機會每天都在增長，因為越來越多的人與我們交談。

I mean right now, we are in a position to send people, to go visit NEOM.

我的意思是，現在我們可以派人去參觀 NEOM。

And once they visit, they are a lot more enthusiastic in talking to us than they were before.

一旦他們來訪，他們就比以前更熱情地與我們交談。

So we have put ourselves in a favorable position because we took the risk to be the first mover.

因此，我們將自己置於有利的位置，因為我們冒著風險成為先行者。

Thank you, Seifi.

謝謝你，賽菲。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Mike Leithead, Barclays.

麥克萊特黑德，巴克萊銀行。

Great.

偉大的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Good morning.

早安.

Great.

偉大的。

First, Melissa, a housekeeping, Seifi.

首先是梅麗莎，一個管家，塞菲。

You made a comment, Melissa, about a onetime asset sale benefit in Americas.

梅麗莎，您對美洲的一次性資產出售福利發表了評論。

Did I hear that correctly?

我沒聽錯嗎？

And just how much of an impact was that?

這有多大影響？

Well, the impact wasn't that huge.

嗯，影響並沒有那麼大。

But I'd like to turn that over to Melissa to qualify that.

但我想把它交給梅麗莎來證明這一點。

Melissa?

梅麗莎？

Yes.

是的。

Thank you, Seifi.

謝謝你，賽菲。

Seifi is right.

賽菲說得對。

It was not material to our overall results.

這對我們的整體結果並不重要。

This is a normal cancellation of a project where we then sell the asset.

這是項目的正常取消，然後我們出售資產。

So very immaterial to our overall results, and something that is in the normal course of our quarter-to-quarter business.

因此，這對我們的整體業績非常無關緊要，這也是我們每季業務的正常過程。

Melissa did a great explanation, if I may just add.

如果我可以補充一下，梅麗莎做了很好的解釋。

It is not uncommon, and we have a long-term agreement with the customer.

這種情況並不罕見，我們與客戶有長期協議。

In the contact, the customer has an option to come and terminate the contract, pay us a cancellation fee because they want to do something different with the asset.

在聯繫中，客戶可以選擇來終止合同，並向我們支付取消費用，因為他們想對資產做一些不同的事情。

So this was a small refinery in southern part of Texas, and that's what happened.

這是德克薩斯州南部的一家小型煉油廠，事情就是這樣。

It's not anything unusual.

這沒什麼不尋常的。

It's part of our normal course of business.

這是我們正常業務流程的一部分。

Sorry, you had another question?

抱歉，您還有其他問題嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Seifi, I wanted to go back to World Energy.

Seifi，我想回到世界能源公司。

I think you said in a prior answer that your relationship there is excellent.

我想你在之前的回答中說過你們的關係非常好。

But there was a lawsuit that became public about two weeks ago that shows Air Products World Energy a good amount of money, that World Energy has since defaulted on.

但大約兩週前公開的一起訴訟向空氣產品世界能源公司展示了一大筆資金，但世界能源公司從此違約。

So how do we square that?

那我們要如何計算呢？

That is the normal course of business.

這是正常的業務流程。

It's a guarantee about certain payment.

這是對一定付款的保證。

It is insignificant, but it obviously does become public.

雖然微不足道，但顯然它確實公開了。

And we, obviously, always protect our rights and so on, but that doesn't mean that there is a bad relationship between Air Products and World Energy.

顯然，我們始終保護我們的權利等等，但這並不意味著空氣產品公司和世界能源公司之間存在不良關係。

Just the normal course of routine.

只是例行公事的正常過程。

I can have Sean make a comment on that, if you want.

如果你願意的話，我可以讓肖恩對此發表評論。

Sean?

肖恩？

Thanks, Seifi.

謝謝，賽菲。

I think it's important that particular piece of litigation does not involve World Energy and our relationship with World Energy continues to be very strong and robust.

我認為重要的是，特定訴訟不涉及世界能源，而且我們與世界能源的關係仍然非常強大和穩固。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay?

好的？

Fair enough.

很公平。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Duffy Fischer with Goldman Sachs.

達菲費雪與高盛。

Yes, good morning guys.

是的，大家早安。

First question is just around the Asia business.

第一個問題是關於亞洲業務的。

Price being down, is that more an indication of just what's happening generally?

價格下跌是否更多地表明了總體情況？

Supply, demand is a little bit out of whack?

供給、需求有點失調？

Or is that still the hangover from helium prices falling and hurting pricing overall in Asia?

或者這仍然是氦氣價格下跌並損害亞洲整體定價的後遺症嗎？

It is a combination of both of them.

它是兩者的結合。

It is supply, demand and there is some impact on helium because of the helium coming from Russia, yes.

這是供應、需求的問題，對氦氣有一些影響，因為氦氣來自俄羅斯，是的。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And then I just want to go back to the headcount comment you made.

然後我只想回到您發表的人數評論。

Again, headcount for you guys is up about 4,000 people in the last several years.

同樣，過去幾年你們的員工人數增加了約 4,000 人。

And I just wanted to, so none of that headcount is really running through the P&L in the EPS that you guys delivered last year.

我只是想這樣做，所以這些員工人數都沒有真正體現在你們去年交付的每股盈餘中的損益表中。

All of that is basically being capitalized?

所有這些基本上都被資本化了？

Or is there some percentage split between what's being capitalized and what's running through the P&L?

或資本化的內容和損益表中的內容之間是否存在一定的比例分配？

Well, why don't I have Melissa address that.

好吧，為什麼我不讓梅莉莎解決這個問題呢？

Melissa?

梅麗莎？

Yes.

是的。

No.

不。

Thank you, Seifi.

謝謝你，賽菲。

So there are a good portion because the vast majority of the growth was in our project delivery organization.

所以有很大一部分是因為絕大多數成長來自我們的專案交付組織。

So a large portion of that is capitalized.

所以其中很大一部分是資本化的。

But obviously, there are portions of that, that are part of a project development organization as well as support organization to really support the growth strategy.

但顯然，其中有一部分是專案開發組織以及真正支持成長策略的支援組織的一部分。

So the vast majority is in fact, capitalized but there is a portion, obviously, for support.

因此，絕大多數其實都是資本化的，但顯然也有一部分是為了支持。

But I do also want to comment that we did take productivity actions over the last two years, reducing our headcount by almost 1,000.

但我也想指出，過去兩年我們確實採取了生產力行動，減少了近 1,000 名員工。

So obviously, we are being diligent that when there are opportunities to reduce headcount, we are strategically doing so.

顯然，我們正在努力，當有機會減少員工數量時，我們會策略性地這樣做。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Great.

偉大的。

Thank you, guys.

謝謝你們，夥計們。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Laurence Alexander,Jefferies.

勞倫斯·亞歷山大，杰弗里斯。

Good morning.

早安.

One short-term question on the price, the merchant pricing that you're seeing in North America.

關於價格的一個短期問題，即您在北美看到的商家定價。

What do you see, what are you using for next year's outlook as to how solid pricing will be?

您如何看待明年的定價前景？

And kind of can you just elaborate on the dynamics there?

能詳細說明一下那裡的動態嗎？

And then secondly, you made a comment around how, as the first mover, you're getting better contracts than you would expect to guess in the future.

其次，您對作為先行者如何獲得比您預期的未來更好的合約發表了評論。

Can you unpack kind of some, or give some examples around that?

你能解開一些，或者舉一些例子嗎？

Because I appreciate kind of the marketing angle of being able to show people you have the facilities first.

因為我很欣賞能夠向人們展示您首先擁有設施的營銷角度。

But can you walk through kind of the contractual differences that, the opportunities that you've been able to capture that you would never get again?

但是，您能經歷一下合約差異嗎？

Well, thank you for your question.

嗯，謝謝你的提問。

With respect to our pricing assumption for 2025, that is a little bit of a forward-looking statement about pricing, and we usually do not do that.

關於我們對 2025 年的定價假設，這是一個關於定價的前瞻性陳述，我們通常不會這樣做。

So if you forgive me, I cannot really answer that question because that's not appropriate for us to make comments about future pricing.

因此，請原諒我，我無法真正回答這個問題，因為我們不適合對未來定價發表評論。

With respect to the contracts, well, if you are the only people who are going to have green hydrogen available by the time that people need to comply with the regulation, well then you think that we would be in a better shape to negotiate the contracts than somebody who might have something available in 2035.

就合約而言，如果在人們需要遵守法規時你們是唯一能夠獲得綠氫的人，那麼你們認為我們會更好地談判合約比 2035 年可能擁有某些東西的人更重要。

So I think being the first mover and having the product, please don't forget, nobody else in the world is going to have a green hydrogen at the quantities, commercial scale to decarbonize a refinery by 2030.

因此，我認為作為先行者並擁有該產品，請不要忘記，到 2030 年，世界上沒有其他人能夠擁有如此數量和商業規模的綠色氫來使煉油廠脫碳。

Any new project requires permitting, plan.

任何新項目都需要許可和計劃。

Those things take a long time.

這些事情需要很長時間。

Believe me, we started on the project in Saudi Arabia and our green hydrogen projects in 2017, our project is going to come on stream in 2027.

相信我，我們在 2017 年開始了沙烏地阿拉伯的計畫和我們的綠氫計畫，我們的計畫將於 2027 年投產。

Takes us 10 years.

我們花了10年時間。

It's a long process.

這是一個漫長的過程。

That is what I was referring to about why we have an advantage.

這就是我所說的為什麼我們有優勢。

Perfect.

完美的。

Thank you

謝謝

Thank you.

謝謝。

Operator, we have time for two other questions, please.

接線員，我們還有時間回答另外兩個問題。

Sebastian Bray, Berenberg.

賽巴斯蒂安·布雷，貝倫貝格。

Hello, good morning and thank you for taking my questions.

您好，早安，感謝您回答我的問題。

I have two please.

我有兩個，請。

The first is on the Middle East segment.

第一個是中東部分。

Jazan, I think, was a bit shy, the whole Middle East and India line was a little bit shy of consensus expectations.

我認為吉贊有點害羞，整個中東和印度航線有點低於共識預期。

And I think this is the second time this has happened.

我認為這是第二次發生這種情況。

Has anything happened at Jazan that makes that business less profitable in 2024 than in previous years?

Jazan 是否發生過任何事情導致該業務 2024 年的利潤低於往年？

Was anything shifted in the contract?

合約中是否有任何內容發生變化？

Is there anything else within EBITDA line for Middle East and India that would explain that?

中東和印度的 EBITDA 線內是否還有其他內容可以解釋這一點？

And my second question is more philosophical.

我的第二個問題更具哲學性。

The company has costed up significantly with a lot of personnel to in-house expertise across the hydrogen chain.

該公司花費大量人力來培養整個氫鏈的內部專業知識。

Carbon capture, probably some terminal and transport as well.

碳捕獲，可能還有一些碼頭和運輸。

If I take the target for net cash flow positive by 2027, to me, that implies, okay, we do NEOM Louisiana, but we don't necessarily do any other projects in the meantime in a big way.

如果我設定到 2027 年淨現金流為正的目標，對我來說，這意味著，好吧，我們在路易斯安那州開展 NEOM，但我們不一定會同時大規模開展任何其他項目。

How is it going to be able to continue to use the expertise of all of these people?

如何才能繼續利用所有這些人的專業知識？

Or are they still focused on those two projects?

或者他們仍然專注於這兩個項目？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Well, thank you very much.

嗯，非常感謝。

I will answer the second question, and then I will turn it over to Melissa to answer your first question about the Middle East.

我先回答第二個問題，然後我將轉交給梅莉莎回答你關於中東的第一個問題。

With respect to your second question, I do not think that it is a correct assumption that we are doing 100% of what we are doing right now about NEOM and about Louisiana in-house.

關於你的第二個問題，我不認為我們正在 100% 地在內部做 NEOM 和路易斯安那州的工作，這是一個正確的假設。

That is not a correct assumption.

這不是一個正確的假設。

We are not experts in carbon sequestration.

我們不是碳封存的專家。

We are going to get people who are experts on that to engineer that.

我們將聘請這方面的專家來進行設計。

That's what they are doing and to do that for us.

這就是他們正在做的事情，也是為了我們所做的事情。

We are not going to be designing Class 6 wells.

我們不會設計 6 級井。

You see that is the, we have people who oversee the process.

你看，我們有專人監督這個過程。

But we are going to go to people who are Board experts on these things, and they will do that for us.

但我們將去找這些事情的董事會專家，他們會為我們做這件事。

When it comes to some of the in engineering or the detailed engineering of some of these facilities, we are using some of the largest engineering firms in the world to do those.

當涉及到其中一些設施的一些內部工程或詳細工程時，我們正在使用世界上一些最大的工程公司來完成這些工作。

What we are keeping and what we have put together is the key people for the key technologies.

我們保留和匯集的是關鍵技術的關鍵人才。

I mean in NEOM, building the ammonia plant is not the key technology.

我的意思是，在 NEOM 中，建造合成氨工廠並不是關鍵技術。

Building the solar plant is not the key technology or building the wind farm is not the core technology.

建造太陽能電站不是關鍵技術，建造風電場也不是核心技術。

The real expertise is how do you put these things together and run them simultaneously so that it works.

真正的專業知識是如何將這些東西組合在一起並同時運行它們以使其發揮作用。

That is the know how that we have people and we are going to be very protective of that know how.

這就是我們擁有的人員的專業知識，我們將非常保護這些專業知識。

And then in Louisiana, we are doing some of the engineering, but not all of it.

然後在路易斯安那州，我們正在做一些工程，但不是全部。

We do not have, haven't hired new people to start designing rebars for foundations.

我們還沒有僱用新人來開始設計地基鋼筋。

We are focused on the key technologies that enables the implementation of these products.

我們專注於實現這些產品的關鍵技術。

So I just wanted to explain that.

所以我只是想解釋一下。

And now I'd like to turn it over to Melissa to answer your question about the Middle East.

現在我想請梅莉莎回答你關於中東的問題。

Melissa?

梅麗莎？

Great.

偉大的。

Thank you, Seifi.

謝謝你，賽菲。

So just a couple of points on our Middle East and India segment.

關於我們的中東和印度部分，只談幾點。

What you're seeing there is really a decline in our merchant demand, coupled with slightly down in pricing, largely in the United Arab Emirates.

您所看到的，我們的商家需求確實有所下降，加上價格略有下降，主要是在阿拉伯聯合大公國。

As it relates to our Jazan joint venture, that is actually performing as expected.

由於它與我們的 Jazan 合資企業有關，因此實際上表現符合預期。

We are flat year-over-year, and we continue to see very good results in our Jazan joint venture.

我們的業績同比持平，但我們繼續看到我們的 Jazan 合資企業取得了非常好的業績。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay.

好的。

Operator, any more questions?

接線員，還有問題嗎？

We don't.

我們不這樣做。

And Seifi, I would like to turn the conference back to you for any additional or closing remarks.

Seifi，我想將會議轉回給您，請您發表補充或結束語。

Okay.

好的。

Well, thank you.

嗯，謝謝。

At this time, I would like to thank everybody for participating in our call.

此時此刻，我要感謝大家參與我們的電話會議。

I appreciate you taking time to listen to our presentation, which was a little bit longer than usual.

感謝您抽出時間來聽我們的演講，我們的演講比平常要長一些。

We appreciate that.

我們對此表示讚賞。

And we look forward to talking to you next quarter.

我們期待下個季度與您交談。

And in the meantime, have a great day, good health and success.

同時，祝您有美好的一天、身體健康、取得成功。

Thanks, everybody.

謝謝大家。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, that will conclude today's call.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。

We thank you for your participation.

我們感謝您的參與。

You may disconnect at this time.

此時您可以斷開連線。