Affirm Holdings Inc (AFRM) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and welcome to the Affirm Holdings fourth quarter fiscal 2024, earnings call. Following the speakers' remarks, we will open the line for your questions.

下午好，歡迎參加 Affirm Holdings 2024 財年第四季財報電話會議。發言人發言結束後，我們將開通您的提問專線。

As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded and a replay of the call will be available on our Investor Relations website for a reasonable period of time after the call.

謹此提醒，本次電話會議正在錄音，電話會議的重播將在電話會議結束後的合理時間內在我們的投資者關係網站上提供。

I'd now like to turn the call over to Zane Keller, Director of Investor Relations. Thank you, Zane, you may begin.

我現在想將電話轉給投資者關係總監 Zane Keller。謝謝你，贊恩，你可以開始了。

Thank you operator. Before we begin, I would like to remind everyone listening that today's call may contain forward looking statements. These forward-looking statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties, including those set forth in our filings with the SEC, which are available on our Investor Relations website.

謝謝運營商。在開始之前，我想提醒各位聽眾，今天的電話會議可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，包括我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中列出的風險和不確定性，這些風險和不確定性可在我們的投資者關係網站上找到。

Actual results may differ materially from any forward-looking statements that we make today. These forward-looking statements speak only as of today, and the company does not assume any obligation or intent to update them except as required by law.

實際結果可能與我們今天所做的任何前瞻性陳述有重大差異。這些前瞻性陳述僅代表今天的情況，除法律要求外，本公司不承擔任何更新這些前瞻性陳述的義務或意圖。

In addition, today's call may include non-GAAP financial measures. These measures should be considered as a supplement to and not a substitute for GAAP financial measures. For historical non-GAAP financial measures, reconciliations to the most directly comparable GAAP measures can be found in our earnings supplement slide deck, which is available on our Investor Relations website.

此外，今天的電話會議可能包括非公認會計準則財務指標。這些措施應被視為對 GAAP 財務措施的補充而不是替代。對於歷史非 GAAP 財務指標，可以在我們的收益補充幻燈片中找到與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的調整表，該投影片可在我們的投資者關係網站上找到。

Posting today's call with me are Max Levchin from Founder and Chief Executive Officer, and Michael Linford, a Affirm's Chief Financial Officer. In line with our practice in prior quarters, we will begin with brief opening remarks from Max before proceeding immediately into questions and answers.

與我一起發布今天電話會議的是創辦人兼執行長 Max Levchin 和 Affirm 財務長 Michael Linford。按照我們前幾季的做法，我們將從馬克斯的簡短開場白開始，然後立即進行問答。

On that note I will turn the call over to Max to begin.

關於這一點，我將把電話轉給馬克斯開始。

Thank you, Zane. Obviously, we had a killer quarter in fiscal year on both growth and profitability sides of the ledger. So as is our custom, the better the results, the less canned comments, I'll offer. There's some really good new stats in the letter that Michael and I attend. So please have a look at that.

謝謝你，贊恩。顯然，我們在本財年的成長和獲利能力方面都表現出色。按照我們的習慣，結果越好，我提供的預設評論就越少。麥可和我參加的信中包含了一些非常好的新統計數據。所以請看一下。

One thing, though, that's not in the letter that I did want to share to build on a great momentum that we're having to help us continue to scale and long-term, we're evolving our leadership structure a little bit. Very excited to share that our Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Michael Linford himself, will be taken on an expanded new role as Chief Operating Officer for Affrim.

不過，有一件事並不是我想在信中分享的，為了建立一個巨大的勢頭，我們必須幫助我們繼續擴大規模，從長遠來看，我們正在稍微改進我們的領導結構。非常高興地宣布，我們的財務長 Michael Linford 先生本人將擔任 Affrim 營運長。

For now, he will remain our CFO, but today, we also have the talented enhance and Mr. Rob O’Hare, a veteran of the Affirm finance team joining us on this call. For a reason, I expect Rob to take on the CFO role by the end of this fiscal year. Still reporting to Michael, please make Rob feel welcome he's a good man and theorem.

目前，他仍將擔任我們的財務官，但今天，我們還有才華橫溢的增強員工 Rob OâHare 先生（Affirm 財務團隊的資深人士）加入我們的電話會議。出於某種原因，我預計 Rob 將在本財年末擔任財務長。仍在向邁克爾匯報，請讓羅布感到受歡迎，他是一個好人和定理。

Back to you Zane.

回到你的讚恩。

Thank you, Max. With that, we will now take your questions. Operator, please open the line for our first questions.

謝謝你，麥克斯。現在我們將回答您的問題。接線員，請撥通我們的第一個問題。

Jason Kupferberg, Bank of America.

賈森‧庫普弗伯格，美國銀行。

Thank you, guys. Good to see these numbers. I was curious if you could comment just as we think about fiscal 2025, guidance, just your general approach to assessing what the credit environment might look like. You obviously continue to control that extremely well.

謝謝你們，夥計們。很高興看到這些數字。我很好奇您能否像我們思考 2025 財年指導方針一樣發表評論，以及您評估信貸環境的一般方法。顯然你繼續控制得非常好。

And maybe as part of that in this category of fiscal '25, assumptions, I know you said that fee to be and some other newer initiatives, including the Apple Pay partnership are not expected to be material, but can you maybe tell us a little bit more about how you guys define material? Because it sounds like there may be something in the numbers for it, but would just love to unpack that a little bit. Thank you.

也許作為 25 財年此類假設的一部分，我知道您說過該費用和其他一些新舉措（包括 Apple Pay 合作夥伴關係）預計不會產生實質性影響，但您能否告訴我們一些信息更多關於你們如何定義材料的資訊？因為聽起來數字中可能有一些東西，但我只是想稍微解開它。謝謝。

Thank you. Great compound question. So I'll -- is our custom, -- I'll give some high-level answers and Michael will probably contextualize it a little better than I can.

謝謝。很好的複合問題。所以我會——這是我們的習慣——我會給出一些高層次的答案，邁克爾可能會比我更好地結合上下文。

So in terms of credits, just a friendly reminder to everybody, the numbers are not an accident. We decide what we want to see. Obviously, there is variability, but we have a really short term exposure. Our consumers don't borrow money from us for too long. Every transaction is underwritten separately, we are by design and definition in control of our credit outcomes.

所以就積分而言，只是友情提醒大家，這個數字並不是偶然的。我們決定我們想看到什麼。顯然，存在可變性，但我們的風險敞口非常短期。我們的消費者不會向我們借錢太久。每筆交易都是單獨承保的，我們透過設計和定義來控制我們的信用結果。

What you see today, are the numbers that we wanted to have and we're happy with it. We'll continue to do exactly the same thing every time we plan our credit outcomes. We tell ourselves what it is that we would see that the queues and that's where we typically end up with plus or minus minor noise.

您今天看到的就是我們想要的數字，我們對此感到滿意。每次我們計劃信貸結果時，我們都會繼續做同樣的事情。我們告訴自己我們會看到隊列是什麼，這就是我們通常會得到正負微小噪音的地方。

In terms of setting guidance, we did this last year and we thought we kind of got the right solution or the right formula and we repeat it again this time we set the floor as risk managers. We are inherently conservative people. We like to guide all of you to a number we feel is pretty well baked. We will get there.

在製定指導方面，我們去年就這樣做了，我們認為我們已經找到了正確的解決方案或正確的公式，這次我們再次重複這一點，我們為風險管理者設定了底線。我們本質上是保守的人。我們希望引導大家找到一個我們認為相當不錯的數字。我們會到達那裡。

And then we turn around until the team we got to do much better than this. We got to be this number. This number is in the bag, but let's do go-go, let's do better. That's what happened in fiscal '24. That is our plan for fiscal '25.

然後我們轉身，直​​到我們的團隊做得比這更好。我們必須是這個數字。這個數字已經囊括在內，但讓我們繼續前進，讓我們做得更好。這就是24財年發生的事。這是我們 25 財年的計畫。

Now, the thing that makes this complex to work at. Lots of things change. That will be something that's going to fall out of our plan for '25, because some really cool opportunity is going to come up and we'll prioritize the opportunity and we'll part ways temporarily with whatever it is that the opportunity will take the plays off.

現在，讓這份工作變得複雜的事情是。很多事情都在改變。這將是我們 25 年計劃中的一部分，因為一些非常酷的機會將會出現，我們將優先考慮該機會，並且我們將暫時與該機會所需的任何東西分道揚鑣。

None of that is in the guide by design we are putting in the guide what we think we will get to with really good degree of certainty. That's the philosophy.

這些都不是指南中的設計內容，我們將我們認為能夠非常確定地實現的內容放入指南中。這就是哲學。

Michael can probably give you a little more color.

麥可也許可以給你更多的色彩。

Yeah, I think you see the growth rate by the Q1 guidance. So obviously, those things are reflective of where we've actually seen progress, for initiatives that have shifted are already contributing, and that's where we're seeing an acceleration in GMV in Q1 so far.

是的，我認為您看到了第一季指導的成長率。顯然，這些事情反映了我們實際看到的進展，因為已經轉變的舉措已經在做出貢獻，這就是我們迄今為止看到第一季 GMV 加速的地方。

I think the prior question around the new initiatives, things like B2B and our partnership with some of the wallets there. The question material that actually clarifies is low end material. Hence, we're not trying to use a any sort of strict definition here.

我認為之前的問題圍繞著新舉措，例如 B2B 以及我們與那裡的一些錢包的合作夥伴關係。實際上澄清的問題材料是低端材料。因此，我們並不試圖在這裡使用任何嚴格的定義。

But for us, it would really need to be, hundreds of millions, $1 billion type range before we start thinking about it as as influencing the trajectory in a material way. And so we look at a lot of these opportunities. They're either not yet shipped, as is the case with several of our wallet partnerships where they're not live yet.

但對我們來說，在我們開始考慮它以實質方式影響軌跡之前，它確實需要數億、10 億美元的範圍。因此，我們關注了許多這樣的機會。它們要么還沒有發貨，就像我們的幾個錢包合作夥伴的情況一樣，它們還沒有上線。

We don't think it's prudent to trying to guess the timing of those in terms of their impact, we retain a lot of confidence on how big it will be eventually, but are being very mindful around setting guidance that is stuff that's live in the ground and contributing today or that we have control and direct line of sight to as opposed to things that could take a few quarters to roll out and therefore have more certainty to them.

我們認為嘗試猜測這些影響的時間並不明智，我們對最終影響有多大仍然充滿信心，但在製定指導方針時非常謹慎，這些指導方針是當前的內容。和直接視線，而不是可能需要幾個季度才能推出的事情，因此對它們有更多的確定性。

And so I think whether it's through our partnerships or any of our international initiatives, we're confident on the size and scale of those relative relatively wouldn't be spending time on them. But we're communicating to you that if they do end up being material, that would actually be material upside to the outlook that we provided for the fiscal year.

因此，我認為，無論是透過我們的合作夥伴關係還是我們的任何國際舉措，我們對這些相對的規模和規模充滿信心，相對不會花時間在他們身上。但我們正在向您傳達的是，如果它們最終確實具有重大意義，那麼這實際上會對我們為本財年提供的前景產生重大影響。

Very helpful. Thank you, guys.

非常有幫助。謝謝你們，夥計們。

Reginald Smith, JPMorgan.

雷金納德‧史密斯，摩根大通。

Good evening, thanks for taking the question. I guess we've seen the business perform in a rising way environment. I'm curious how you're thinking about the business in a potentially falling rate environment. And I'm curious around two things really consumer spending. And then just thinking about I know you guys price in this transaction uniquely with the APR.

晚上好，感謝您提出問題。我想我們已經看到業務在不斷上升的環境中表現。我很好奇您在利率可能下降的環境下如何看待這項業務。我對消費者支出的兩件事感到好奇。然後想想我知道你們在這筆交易中的定價是用年利率來定價的。

And I'm wondering if there may be some benefits to your model versus traditional credit cards where the rates to take to come to the prime rate if there's any play or area for play in there in terms of pricing the way down? Thank you.

我想知道與傳​​統信用卡相比，您的模型是否有一些好處，如果在定價方面有任何發揮或發揮作用，則利率可以達到最優惠利率？謝謝。

Thanks, Regi. Great question, as always. There's a huge amount of benefit in not being tethered to a single price that was handed to you in a form of line, but flowed precisely with the -- but that's once rated the coupling is on natural. We've always said from the very beginning, this idea that you negotiated your credit card rate, even if it's floating once and for all basically and the merchant negotiates their acceptance rates once and for all, is the bullish like we live in a connected real-time world.

謝謝，雷吉。一如既往的好問題。不受單一價格的束縛有很大的好處，該價格以線條的形式交給你，但與它精確地流動——但一旦被認為耦合是自然的。我們總是從一開始就說，你協商信用卡利率的想法，即使它基本上是一勞永逸地浮動，並且商家一勞永逸地協商他們的接受率，這是看漲的，就像我們生活在一個互聯的世界中一樣。

Why wouldn't we be negotiating these rates in real-time? And that's what we've built. And that's why Affirm is successful. That's our ambition. As the rates move at large as they go up. Obviously, we end up having to pass some of the costs through as it hits us to consumers practically what this means that at some point someone who would have been approved will not be approved because the price is just not the number that we want to put.

為什麼我們不即時協商這些費率？這就是我們所建構的。這就是 Affirm 成功的原因。這就是我們的雄心。隨著利率的上升，利率也會大幅波動。顯然，我們最終不得不將一些成本轉嫁給消費者，這實際上意味著在某些時候本來會被批准的人將不會被批准，因為價格不是我們想要的數字。

We have we have limits. We don't want to go above the Military Lending Act number and that that's a decision we made a long time ago and don't plan to change as the rates come down. The very first consumer site impact will be better approval rates. Pricing is always fungible. We price things in real time. We can change it as we go for the most exciting thing about reduction in Fed funds rate is we'll just have more active users. We'll have more news. We'll have more repeat users because we'll be able to approve more people.

我們有我們的限制。我們不想超出《軍事貸款法》的數字，這是我們很久以前做出的決定，也不打算隨著利率的下降而改變。對消費者網站的第一個影響將是更高的支持率。定價始終是可替代的。我們即時定價。我們可以改變它，因為我們致力於降低聯邦基金利率，最令人興奮的事情是我們將擁有更多的活躍用戶。我們會有更多消息。我們將擁有更多的重複用戶，因為我們將能夠批准更多的人。

The only thing to add is the rate at which the rates change is very important. We saw a very quick rise in rates with as rates went up and you saw us react to those changing rates on the time when we talked about, we're very well positioned now to be reactive such that if they were to move that quickly again, I think we could move very quickly, but that's not in our assumptions that we don't believe that will happen.

唯一需要補充的是，利率變動的速度非常重要。我們看到，隨著利率的上升，利率迅速上升，當我們談論時，你看到我們對這些變化的利率做出了反應，我們現在處於非常有利的位置，可以做出反應，這樣，如果他們再次快速移動的話，我認為我們可以很快採取行動，但這並不在我們的假設中，我們不相信這種情況會發生。

And I think we're talking about here a change in direction of rates more than that the magnitude for the time being. And so very little change in the near term based upon the moves that have already been priced in by the market.

我認為我們在這裡討論的是利率方向的變化，而不是目前的幅度。因此，基於市場已經消化的走勢，短期內幾乎沒有什麼變化。

Ramsey El-Assal, Barclays.

拉姆齊·阿薩爾，巴克萊銀行。

Hi. Thanks so much for taking my question this evening. RLTC fell above nicely above your range this quarter. And I know you called out a presumably nonrecurring $30 million benefit from a single securitization. What are the key puts and takes, we need to consider for RLTC performance and 2025, sort of in your internal planning, what are shaping up to be the bigger, the bigger variables to keep in mind, do we need to see fit if rates come down, funding costs come down a certain amount? Do we need to see the credit performance staying in a certain levels where are the pressure points next year?

你好。非常感謝您今晚回答我的問題。本季 RLTC 的跌幅遠高於您的區間。我知道您從單一證券化中獲得了 3000 萬美元的非經常性收益。對於 RLTC 表現和 2025 年，我們需要考慮哪些關鍵的看跌期權和看跌期權，在您的內部規劃中，哪些因素會變得更大，需要記住更大的變量，我們是否需要考慮合適的利率降下來，資金成本降一定量嗎？我們是否需要看到明年的信貸表現維持在一定水平，也就是明年的壓力點？

Yeah. Great question. So again, on Q4, we did do a non-consolidated securitization. We don't do those every period. And so when we're able to do them. You do have a little bit of a chunky benefit, which pushed us slightly over the 4% range. We'd like to think about as the ceiling.

是的。很好的問題。因此，在第四季度，我們確實進行了非合併證券化。我們並不是每個時期都會這樣做。所以當我們能夠做到的時候。你確實有一點大的好處，這讓我們稍微超出了 4% 的範圍。我們想把它想像成天花板。

When you take that out, the RLTC rate in Q4 is pretty consistent with the guidance that we gave for Q1. So we think it's pretty stable sequentially and the big puts and takes are mostly related to mix of business that we are leveraging on the platform and the efficiency associated credit outcomes and then how we execute in the capital markets.

除去這一點，第四季度的 RLTC 利率與我們為第一季給出的指導非常一致。因此，我們認為它連續相當穩定，大的看跌期權和看跌期權主要與我們在平台上利用的業務組合以及與信貸結果相關的效率以及我們在資本市場上的執行方式有關。

I think the team has done a phenomenal job this past 12 months and broadening our access to really attractive capital sources. And but it's been done with ABS deals done with forward flow deals. And we continue to think there's lots of opportunity for us to do more here.

我認為團隊在過去 12 個月中做得非常出色，拓寬了我們獲得真正有吸引力的資本來源的管道。但這是透過 ABS 交易和遠期流動交易完成的。我們仍然認為我們有很多機會在這裡做更多的事情。

And certainly, if we're able to do that, where we can deliver strong margins we are signing up for a 10 basis points expansion in the RLTC percentage GMV versus last year. And we feel like that's possible because of a lot of the full year benefit of the work that we've taken on, plus the fact that we do think we're in a hurry, strong position with respect to the capital markets.

當然，如果我們能夠做到這一點，在能夠提供強勁利潤的情況下，我們將簽署 RLTC 百分比 GMV 較去年擴大 10 個基點的協議。我們覺得這是可能的，因為我們所做的工作為全年帶來了很多好處，而且我們確實認為我們在資本市場方面處於緊急、強勢的地位。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Will Nance, Goldman Sachs.

威爾·南斯，高盛。

Hey, guys, nice results today. Appreciate you taking the question. I wanted to follow up on the kind of dovetailing off the earlier point around kind of having a lot of control and visibility into the credit outcomes that you expect. When you set the underwriting targets, I thought the stats in a different direction.

嘿，夥計們，今天的成績不錯。感謝您提出問題。我想跟進先前的觀點，即對您期望的信貸結果進行大量控制和可見性。當你設定承保目標時，我認為統計數據的方向不同。

The stats in the shareholder letter around the number of repeat users and repeat transactions increasing overtime. I thought was interesting. And so I'm wondering if your visibility into forward volume is increasing to kind of a similar way where you now have a much better picture about what how the volume trends might shake out over the coming year.

股東信中關於重複使用者和重複交易數量的統計數據隨著時間的推移而增加。我覺得很有趣。因此，我想知道您對遠期交易量的了解是否正在以類似的方式增加，您現在可以更好地了解未來一年的交易量趨勢可能會如何變化。

I just thought it was interesting the increases in number of transactions per user and the number of repeat users. So how is that impacting the way that you look at the business internally and kind of plan for the coming year.

我只是覺得每個用戶的交易數量和重複用戶數量的增加很有趣。那麼這對您內部看待業務的方式以及來年的計劃有何影響？

If we're on a kind of if you look at the gaps between those cohort curves that are pretty big, which means that we're not yet struggling, if you will, to improve those numbers. So the fact that we are driving this outsized gain just means that there's a lot of -- or to do. Like the way we think about what's going to happen to the different card, for example, right now, we're on the order of $3,000 of annual spend.

如果你看看這些隊列曲線之間的差距相當大，這意味著我們還沒有努力改善這些數字，如果你願意的話。因此，我們正在推動這種巨大的收益，這一事實意味著還有很多事情要做。就像我們思考不同卡片會發生什麼的方式一樣，例如，現在我們的年度支出約為 3,000 美元。

The right number from my point of view is $7,500, at least and on the order of 20 million active cards, that's the target when we get there, I don't know. But that is what I think is both possible and required for us to succeed.

從我的角度來看，正確的數字是 7,500 美元，至少是 2000 萬張活躍卡，這是我們達到目標時的目標，我不知道。但我認為這既是可能的，也是我們成功所必需的。

We're going to get there in fiscal '25, probably not certainly not making any promises on that front. But the meat of the leads that we're showing in these charts speak for themselves, their big. That means there's a lot of opportunity. So we forecast what we think we'll get to, and that's in the guide. And we've got some really cool ideas and that all of them are going to work.

我們將在 25 財年實現這一目標，但可能不會在這方面做出任何承諾。但我們在這些圖表中展示的領先優勢的實質是不言而喻的，它們的規模很大。這意味著有很多機會。所以我們預測了我們認為我們會達到的目標，這在指南中。我們有一些非常酷的想法，而且所有這些都將發揮作用。

Appreciate it.

欣賞它。

Andrew Bauch, Wells Fargo.

安德魯·鮑赫，富國銀行。

Thanks for taking the question, guys. Just wanted to talk about the sources of operating leverage there and the guide here, I mean, you're calling for 18.4% AOI margins.

謝謝你們提出問題，夥伴們。只是想談談那裡的營運槓桿來源和這裡的指南，我的意思是，你要求 18.4% 的 AOI 利潤率。

That's a little bit better than we've previously been guiding for for the growth above 20%. So just wanted to get your thoughts on that is given the current growth profile and the strength of that number?

這比我們之前預測的 20% 以上的成長要好一些。因此，只是想了解一下您對當前成長概況和該數字強度的看法？

Yeah. I think the -- one thing that we as a leadership team are really proud about is how quickly we made progress on operating leverage in the business. I think we had a lot of conviction of where we would get to for a long time. The pace at which we were able to get there over the past 12 months has been phenomenal.

是的。我認為，作為領導團隊，我們真正感到自豪的一件事是我們在業務營運槓桿方面取得的進展有多快。我認為我們對未來很長一段時間的目標充滿信心。在過去 12 個月裡，我們實現這一目標的速度是驚人的。

And your Q4 results, I think are a great data point on that trajectory. And I think we feel that continuing to expand our margins is good discipline and with it gives us the focus we need to actually operate better. And the things that temper that are we do have a ton of opportunity ahead of us.

我認為第四季度的結果是該軌蹟的一個很好的數據點。我認為，我們認為繼續擴大利潤是良好的紀律，它使我們能夠集中精力，更好地實際運作。而那些影響我們的事情確實有大量的機會擺在我們面前。

And so we don't want to operate at Terminal margins, would you want to show progress. And I believe at the at the JP Morgan conference last in May, this May, I outlined that we would expect to continue to expand margins we're signing up for 200 basis points this year and feel like we still have quite a bit of runway of margin expansion to do into the future.

因此，我們不想以終端利潤進行運營，您是否想展示進展？我相信在今年 5 月的摩根大通會議上，我概述了我們預計將繼續擴大利潤率，我們今年將簽署 200 個基點，並且感覺我們還有相當多的空間未來的利潤擴張。

And that will just be tempered with the opportunities that we have to invest in particular in continuing to expand our team.

這將受到我們必須投資的機會的影響，特別是在繼續擴大我們的團隊方面。

Rob Wildhack, Autonomous Research.

Rob Wildhack，自主研究。

Maybe to take the earlier question on rate cuts in funding costs connected to the '25, outlook. Could you give some color on how much that the current rate curve and expectations might be benefiting approvals in fiscal '25? And in that light, how much it could benefit the growth outlook?

也許可以回答先前關於與「25」前景相關的融資成本降息的問題。您能否說明目前的利率曲線和預期對 25 財年的批准有多大幫助？從這個角度來看，它對成長前景有多大好處？

It's a good question. We do not take into account the rate curve, the future market expectations, the funding costs into our decisioning explicitly. It does get reflected as we negotiate capital deals, but the market expectation of rates does get reflected into those deals.

這是一個好問題。我們沒有明確地將利率曲線、未來市場預期、融資成本考慮到我們的決策中。當我們談判資本交易時，它確實會被反映，但市場對利率的預期確實反映在這些交易中。

And so it affects our average cost of funding, which in turn affects our decisioning. But we don't we're not looking out and saying with two rate cuts on the horizon, that's going to get more aggressive. Instead, we look at our current funding costs and compare them to what we need to generate to be profitable on transaction basis.

因此它會影響我們的平均融資成本，進而影響我們的決策。但我們不會，我們不會展望未來並說，隨著兩次降息的臨近，降息將會變得更加激進。相反，我們會查看當前的融資成本，並將其與我們在交易基礎上實現盈利所需的成本進行比較。

And there is an important reason why these things flow through a bit on Velac basis, a lot of the funding sources we have are not floating rate funding facilities since our ABS deals, for example, have fixed cost of funds. So it will take a while for the deals that we've done over the past year, year and a half to be refinanced in the next two years. So the funding costs are a bit stickier, which mean deal does it flow through quite as neatly as you might think.

這些事情在 Velac 基礎上流動的一個重要原因是，我們擁有的許多資金來源並不是浮動利率融資設施，因為我們的 ABS 交易具有固定的資金成本。因此，我們過去一年半完成的交易需要一段時間才能在未來兩年內進行再融資。因此，融資成本有點黏性，這意味著交易的順利進行就像你想像的那樣。

Okay, thanks.

好的，謝謝。

Would that mean then that if you get to say spring 2025, and rates are a lot lower than they are today, there would be potential upside on approvals because of the lower interest rate environment and lower funding costs?

那麼，這是否意味著，如果到 2025 年春季，利率比現在低得多，那麼由於較低的利率環境和較低的融資成本，審批是否會有潛在的上升空間？

With one caveat,

有一點要注意的是，

If the reason why rates are being cut is because we're in a perfect economic scenario then. Yeah, but of course, I think we're mindful of the fact that the thing that's probably be happening in that scenario is some pressure on the labor market, which has been very, very tight begin to loosen. We of course, we need to take into account as we think about where we had approvals.

如果降息的原因是因為我們正處於完美的經濟狀況。是的，但當然，我認為我們注意到這樣一個事實，即在這種情況下可能發生的事情是勞動力市場面臨的一些壓力，勞動力市場一直非常非常緊張開始放鬆。當然，當我們考慮我們在哪裡獲得批准時，我們需要考慮到這一點。

Okay. Very helpful. Thank you.

好的。非常有幫助。謝謝。

Kyle Peterson, Needham.

凱爾彼得森，尼達姆。

Great. Good afternoon, guys. Thanks for taking the questions. I wanted to touch a little bit on the outlook particular your growth expectations kind of between network and merchant network and our dollar growth revenue and your interest in gain on sale on such, I guess, which are you got which bucket are you guys expecting to be bigger contributor to growth in FY '25? Is how should we think about the split between the revenue streams? Thanks.

偉大的。下午好，夥計們。感謝您提出問題。我想談談前景，特別是您對網路和商業網路之間的成長預期，以及我們的美元成長收入，以及您對此類銷售收益的興趣，我想，你們有哪些期望？成長做出更大貢獻？我們該如何考慮收入來源之間的分配？謝謝。

So the thing that changes the mix across revenue streams is either the mix of originations and therefore the associated like living content. And then the capital strategies behind it. So as we lean a little bit more on gain on sale or get better pricing gains, how you see the gain-on-sale line go up and equally as you have maybe higher MDR bank loans, you'll see some increases there.

因此，改變收入流組合的因素要麼是來源的組合，要麼是相關的生活內容。然後是背後的資本策略。因此，當我們更依賴銷售收益或獲得更好的定價收益時，您會看到銷售收益線上升，同樣，當您可能擁有更高的MDR 銀行貸款時，您會看到那裡有一些增長。

I think really it's difficult to identify we're not giving guidance on which line item for you to model out. But the root cause is that we made the asset more valuable. When you make the asset more valuable, you monetize at a higher rate. And that's why we do think there's about 10 bps of more revenue was probably under the revenue, less transaction cost part.

我認為確實很難確定我們沒有為您建模哪個訂單項目提供指導。但根本原因是我們讓資產更有價值。當您使資產更有價值時，您就能以更高的速度獲利。這就是為什麼我們確實認為收入減去交易成本部分可能會增加約 10 個基點的收入。

Got it. That's helpful. Thank you.

知道了。這很有幫助。謝謝。

Dan Dolev, Mizuho

丹‧多列夫，瑞穗

Thanks. Great quarter, guys, and then congrats on the GAAP profitability in the fourth quarter.

謝謝。夥計們，這個季度很棒，然後祝賀第四季度的 GAAP 盈利能力。

I wanted to ask about Apple Pay Later, I think a couple of years ago when they announced that they're getting into buy-now-pay-later, the Affirm stock was under pressure two years later, they capitulate and you guys are handling the volumes, like is it maybe you can talk max a little bit about that.

我想問一下 Apple Pay Later 的情況，我想幾年前，當他們宣布要進入“先買後付”模式時，兩年後 Affirm 股票面臨壓力，他們投降了，你們正在處理卷，也許你可以談談最大的一點。

The fact that it's much more difficult to do buy-now-pay-later than a lot of people think that it's just have a product without a brand and without the ability to take risk appropriately because it sounds like from an Apple perspective, there's much more to Affirm, then what a lot of people are thinking?

事實上，「先買後付」比許多人想像的要困難得多，因為它只是一個沒有品牌、沒有能力承擔適當風險的產品，因為從蘋果的角度來看，有很多更多的肯定，那麼很多人在想什麼呢？

Thank you, Dan. Give them full credit totally front Rand by GAAP, surprised by apparently correcting -- correctly predicting it, nice note. So on the Apple side, I don't think they're capitulating. I think the if anything are saying the buy-now-pay-later thing is huge and important, and it's not a feature. It's a major thing that is just as important as credit cards it may be. I certainly think it is more important in credit cards because it's the better way.

謝謝你，丹。按照公認會計準則，給他們完全的信任，對明顯的糾正感到驚訝——正確地預測它，很好的說明。所以在蘋果方面，我認為他們並沒有屈服。我認為，如果有什麼要說的是「先買後付」的事情是巨大而重要的，而且它不是一個功能。這是一件與信用卡一樣重要的大事。我當然認為這在信用卡中更重要，因為這是更好的方式。

Creating a platform for companies like Affrim to deliver the products with all the bells and whistles with all the unique things that we know how to do well is very smart strategy. I don't think it's backing out or something. It's embracing the fact that this is a complicated, really, really textured set of offerings that works in different ways for different audiences.

為像 Affrim 這樣的公司創建一個平台，以提供具有所有附加功能和我們知道如何做好的所有獨特功能的產品，這是一個非常明智的策略。我不認為它會退出或其他什麼。它接受了這樣一個事實：這是一套複雜的、非常非常有質感的產品，以不同的方式針對不同的受眾發揮作用。

Between that, there is a couple of things that don't meet the eye readily in our business that -- I every time I think I've explained, I find that people don't necessarily fully understand. So who knows but to sort of repeat the thing that I had you tried to explain on and on underwritings hard, you've got to get data, got to get it in real time. You have to verify it for both validity and accuracy and timeliness and all that good stuff.

除此之外，在我們的業務中，有些事情不太容易被人們所接受——每次我認為我已經解釋過了，我發現人們不一定完全理解。所以誰知道呢，但為了重複我讓你在承保方面努力解釋的事情，你必須取得數據，必須即時取得數據。你必須驗證它的有效性、準確性和及時性以及所有這些好東西。

And it's a real complicated thing that we do here really well. We've been at it for 13, 14 years almost now, and that's our DNA and we will talk about AI as if it happened yesterday, we've been in what used to be known as AI for a lot longer than it was a thing that people throw around as a reason to lay off their employees.

這是一件非常複雜的事情，我們在這裡做得非常好。我們已經在這方面工作了 13、14 年了，這就是我們的 DNA，我們將談論人工智慧，就好像它發生在昨天一樣，我們從事過去被稱為人工智慧的時間比以前要長得多。人們到處亂丟東西作為解僱員工的理由。

So we use a lot of machine learning and we do a lot of good work there. So that's hard. And unless you're really focused on it, you're not going to do as well as a specialist like we can.

因此，我們大量使用機器學習，並做了許多出色的工作。所以這很難。除非你真正專注於它，否則你不會像我們這樣的專家做得那麼好。

Park two, which is to call out and give props to our Intrepid sales team. There's enormous effort involved in signing up merchants because what we offer is really incremental, but it's also really complex we're coming to them and saying credit cards cost, you a couple of points, you should give us 3.5%, 5.5%, 7.5% major slices of your margin for transactions that we promise you will be really, really incremental.

停二號，用於呼叫並向我們的無畏銷售團隊提供道具。與商家簽約需要付出巨大的努力，因為我們提供的服務確實是增量的，但也非常複雜，我們會向他們詢問信用卡費用，請您提幾點，您應該給我們3.5%、5.5%、7.5 %我們向您承諾，您的交易保證金的主要部分將是真正、真正的增量。

And the way we're going to make it work is not by giving consumers flat-out cashback or discounts or all are tired credit card metrics. We're going to give them access to credit on extraordinary terms with new EPR at all or really low subsidized EPR that's going to matter to certain consumer and a really big way.

我們要讓它發揮作用的方式並不是向消費者提供全額現金回饋或折扣，或所有這些令人厭倦的信用卡指標。我們將為他們提供以非常規條件獲得信貸的機會，包括新的 EPR 或非常低補貼的 EPR，這對某些消費者來說非常重要。

We're going to transparently at the point of sale as they make a decision that's going to come together, it's going to help them decide is going to help them get off the sidelines and buy right now and how you Mr. as merchant drive more volume.

當他們做出共同決定時，我們將透明地在銷售點進行，這將幫助他們做出決定，將幫助他們擺脫旁觀並立即購買，以及作為商人的先生如何推動更多體積。

That is something you find out once you have been in the market and realize that, hey, this is actually what makes this product so special, the ability to in real-time transfer part of the margin that the merchant is willing to invest in a transaction to a consumer in a form of benefit, having a real-time network of hundreds of thousands of merchants that do that willingly because they've measured incrementality is really powerful.

一旦你進入市場，你就會發現這一點，並意識到，嘿，這實際上是該產品如此特別的原因，能夠實時轉移商家願意投資的部分保證金。由數十萬商家組成的即時網絡，這些商家願意這樣做，因為他們已經衡量了增量，這確實很強大。

And that's what we've spent the last decade doing in addition to building real AI. That adds up to still a lot of work and people that think it's the coolest thing to work on and creating a platform for companies like ours to deliver that through world's most popular phone and world's most popular wallet. It's often. So I'm obviously super stoked about what's happening there. But it's most certainly an embracement that's the word versus a walk-away -- for a bit of a ramp.

這就是我們在過去十年中除了建立真正的人工智慧之外所做的事情。這仍然需要大量的工作，人們認為這是最酷的事情，並為像我們這樣的公司創建一個平台，透過世界上最受歡迎的手機和世界上最受歡迎的錢包來提供這項服務。經常有。所以我顯然對那裡發生的事情感到非常興奮。但毫無疑問，這是一種擁抱，而不是走開——為了一點坡道。

It's super helpful. Well, amazing results and congrats again on the promotion for (inaudible)

這非常有幫助。嗯，令人驚嘆的結果，再次祝賀（聽不清楚）的晉升

James Faucette, Morgan Stanley.

詹姆斯‧福賽特，摩根士丹利。

Thanks very much. Want to build a little bit on that last point there, Max, I'll ask kind of in a more generalized way, how you're feeling right now about and kind of the composition and profile of your customer base? And what are you thinking about in terms of ways and tools, including some of those promotional capabilities you talked about to expand and maybe even improve? So such that you can get even beyond kind of that Affrim card level of spending $500 in annual spend to something better than that?

非常感謝。麥克斯，想在最後一點的基礎上再做一點介紹，我會以一種更普遍的方式問你，你現在對你的客戶群的構成和概況感覺如何？您在方式和工具方面有什麼想法，包括您談到的一些擴大甚至改進的促銷能力？這樣一來，您甚至可以超越 Affrim 卡每年花費 500 美元的水平，達到更好的水平？

We definitely have no shortage of ideas. Let's see. So I think -- I'll tried to keep it short because it has a real danger of becoming a very long-winded answer. And I feel like I spent that bullet in the last question.

我們絕對不缺乏想法。讓我們來看看。所以我想——我會盡量保持簡短，因為它確實有成為冗長答案的危險。我覺得我在最後一個問題中用了那顆子彈。

We think about consumers in segments, we obviously think everybody should throw away the credit card and start using Affrim often, but different consumers. We have fairly different financial profiles and different needs.

我們考慮細分消費者，我們顯然認為每個人都應該扔掉信用卡並開始經常使用 Affrim，但消費者不同。我們的財務狀況和需求截然不同。

We have catchy nick names for all of our segments, but practically some people need access to credit in care a lot about things like lower monthly payments and more time to pay back and the fact that we don't charge them late fees if something happens and been a little bit more time to payback.

我們的所有細分市場都有朗朗上口的暱稱，但實際上，有些人需要獲得信貸，因為他們非常關心諸如較低的每月還款額和更多的還款時間，以及如果發生問題我們不會向他們收取滯納金的事實並有更多的時間來回報。

And then on the other side of the spectrum, there are people who say, hey, I understand time value of money. I'm a sophisticated consumer credit and I will transact if you give zero percent rate. And those who are not the same person live in different segments. And there are different products that excite those people in profoundly different ways.

另一方面，有人說，嘿，我理解金錢的時間價值。我是一家成熟的消費信貸公司，如果您提供零利率，我就會進行交易。而那些不是同一個人的人則生活在不同的階層。不同的產品會以截然不同的方式讓人興奮。

Affrim card is a great platform to offer all of those promotional vehicles to every segment. So we think it's a universal product that we can bring, but you will see us in the coming weeks and really months launch more and more features within there Affrim card footprint. That speaks to different segments in fairly different ways. We'll see 0% deals available to folks that we know, really respond to those.

Affrim 卡是一個向各個細分市場提供所有這些促銷工具的絕佳平台。因此，我們認為這是我們可以帶來的通用產品，但您將在未來幾週甚至幾個月內看到我們在 Affrim 卡足跡中推出越來越多的功能。這以相當不同的方式涉及不同的細分市場。我們會看到我們認識的、真正對此做出回應的人可以獲得 0% 的折扣。

We will offer longer claims to pay to those that really need that, that is available to our merchants as a configurable set of tools. We used to talk a lot about it after checkout. It's sort of bold new. So it doesn't even get I mentioned in my letter, but it's still the cornerstone of a lot of our payment delivery technology.

我們將為那些真正需要的人提供更長的索賠，這可以作為一組可配置的工具提供給我們的商家。我們過去常常在結帳後談論很多。這有點大膽的新意。所以我甚至沒有在信中提到它，但它仍然是我們許多支付交付技術的基石。

We have new products we launched, pay into paying 30, a few more that were going to roll out. And all of that will live to serve our merchants to sell more merchandise in a way that converts the best way each consumer segment.

我們推出了新產品，支付30美元，還有一些即將推出。所有這些都將服務於我們的商家，以最佳的方式銷售更多商品，從而轉變每個消費者群體。

At some point, I think it will be full automation for merchants to just say, hey, let me give you X dollars and just give me as much conversion as you possibly can that sort of my vision for the nirvana version spend almost like buying AdWords that here's might get me some transactions here. It might get me some conversions.

在某些時候，我認為商家會完全自動化地說，嘿，讓我給你 X 美元，然後儘可能多地給我轉化，我對涅槃版本的願景幾乎就像購買 AdWords 一樣這可能會讓我在這裡進行一些交易。它可能會帶給我一些轉變。

We're obviously not quite there yet, but that's the direction which we're headed. The underlying tools for each segment will necessarily be different. And that's by design. We understand our consumer a lot better because we understand what they're buying through SKU-level data, et cetera.

顯然我們還沒有完全做到這一點，但這就是我們前進的方向。每個細分市場的底層工具必然有所不同。這是設計使然。我們更了解消費者，因為我們透過 SKU 層級的數據等了解他們正在購買什麼。

And I would really encourage everybody to read the cohort engagement charts we have put in the letter. Everything Max mentioned is things that we're working on into the future to make it better, stuff that's already in the ground, the products you already have out there are making great progress towards increasing engagement and it really jumps out.

我真的鼓勵每個人閱讀我們在信中放入的群組參與度圖表。 Max 提到的一切都是我們在未來努力使其變得更好的事情，已經在地下的東西，你已經擁有的產品在提高參與度方面取得了巨大的進步，而且它真的很突出。

You mean start looking at just how much more engagement the recent cohorts have and the consistency with which the cohorts have grown in their engagement with us over time speaks to the underlying value of what we do for these consumers. And why we have a lot of confidence that we will address more and more of their needs their purchases over time.

你的意思是開始看看最近的群體有多少參與度，以及這些群體隨著時間的推移與我們的參與度增長的一致性，這說明了我們為這些消費者所做的事情的潛在價值。以及為什麼我們充滿信心，隨著時間的推移，我們將滿足他們越來越多的購買需求。

That's great color. Thank you.

那顏色真棒。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Timothy Chiodo, UBS.

（操作員說明） Timothy Chiodo，UBS。

Great. Thanks for taking the question. I wanted to circle back on Apple pay a little bit. Totally appreciate that for a specific customer. You might not want to go into too much detail, but I was hoping you could talk a little bit about the expected user experience with Affirm being it I believe at the onset may be one of the main or only options for US online commerce.

偉大的。感謝您提出問題。我想稍微回顧一下蘋果支付。對於特定客戶來說，我非常感激。您可能不想透露太多細節，但我希望您能談談 Affirm 的預期用戶體驗，因為我相信它一開始可能是美國線上商務的主要或唯一選擇之一。

But the idea would be that over time, consumers using Apple Pay would have multiple options, may be other buy now pay later options, but also some of the card-based installment offering. So if we could just talk about the user experience there and maybe the drop-down menu, if you will.

但我們的想法是，隨著時間的推移，使用 Apple Pay 的消費者將有多種選擇，可能是其他先買後付的選擇，也可能是一些基於卡片的分期付款服務。因此，我們是否可以談談那裡的用戶體驗，也許還有下拉式選單，如果你願意的話。

And then the second piece is around the unit economics. If the full range of products will be offered throughout that channel so that we should expect the unit economics to be still in that 3% to 4% range, maybe absent some degree of revenue share back to Apple? Thanks a lot.

第二部分是圍繞著單位經濟學。如果透過該管道提供全系列產品，那麼我們預期單位經濟效益仍將保持在 3% 至 4% 的範圍內，也許蘋果不會獲得一定程度的收入分成？多謝。

I'll try to answer it in reverse order. So well beyond the Apple Pay, which, by the way, not launched yet. So but maybe you could maybe I'll take it in the order. You did ask it not my role or rate to unveil changes to our partner's product. So Apple will undoubtedly deliver beautiful experience just given who they are, we'll be a part of it. We're excited and proud to be, and we'll all see exactly what it looks like when it rolls out, which hopefully will be reasonably soon now.

我會嘗試以相反的順序回答它。遠遠超出了 Apple Pay，順便說一句，Apple Pay 尚未推出。所以，也許你可以，也許我會按順序接受。您確實要求我的角色或職責不是公佈我們合作夥伴產品的變化。因此，蘋果無疑將提供美好的體驗，只要他們是誰，我們就會成為其中的一部分。我們對此感到興奮和自豪，當它推出時我們都會確切地看到它的樣子，希望很快就會推出。

On the economics part of it, too, beyond Apple Pay beyond any one major partner, we are not a wallet by design and definition we are an ingredient brand. We are in that sense, at least similar to Visa, MasterCard dynamics, et cetera, which means that we have an inherent channel conflict when you go to a particularly wallet friendly website, you might find Affirm offer directly from card will be accepted because everyone takes Visa.

在經濟方面，除了 Apple Pay 之外，也超越了任何一個主要合作夥伴，從​​設計和定義上來說，我們不是一個錢包，我們是一個原料品牌。從這個意義上說，我們至少與Visa、MasterCard 動態等類似，這意味著我們存在固有的頻道衝突，當你訪問一個特別錢包友好的網站時，你可能會發現直接來自卡的確認報價將被接受，因為每個人都需要簽證。

You might find Apple Pay soon enough with us in it and Shopee because that's also available now of Shopify, at least in some retailers. And there's Amazon Pay. And then there's Google Pay were also integrated and so on and on it goes and we are we aspire to be in every one of those channels.

您可能很快就會在我們和 Shopee 中發現 Apple Pay，因為 Shopify 現在也可以使用 Apple Pay，至少在某些零售商中是如此。還有亞馬遜支付。然後還有 Google Pay 也被整合等等，我們渴望進入每個管道。

Which means that when we compute the overall revenue per transaction card cost metric, we have to account for the possibility that the consumer will walk through any one of those doors. And we've been consistent in guiding to this idea that the business works really, really well between 3% and 4% when it gets over 4% random securitization successes and timeshift, notwithstanding above for small to Rich, we shouldn't really be not investing those dollars and we're not putting up people basically below three starts looking what's attractive for us as shareholders.

這意味著，當我們計算每張交易卡成本指標的總收入時，我們必須考慮消費者走進其中任何一扇門的可能性。我們一直堅持這樣的理念，當隨機證券化成功率超過 4% 時，業務在 3% 到 4% 之間運行得非常非常好，儘管上述對於小到富的情況，我們不應該真的這樣做不投資這些美元，我們也不會讓基本上低於三人的人員開始尋找對我們作為股東有吸引力的東西。

And so it will see within 3% to 4% are independent of the doors. Consumers will walk through and that is certainly how we think about the business when we enter any one of these giant partnerships. And we've been extremely fortunate, not entirely accidentally proud to call giant platforms, retailers and the all it's our partners.

因此它會看到 3% 到 4% 內的門是獨立的。消費者會走過，這肯定是當我們進入任何一個大型合作夥伴關係時我們對業務的看法。我們非常幸運，並非完全偶然地自豪地稱呼巨型平台、零售商和所有我們的合作夥伴。

We create systems and levers to help us navigate financial reality. We don't a priori know exactly the credit profile of the customer. We have expectations. We have hopes, but we don't know who's going to apply and precisely what approval rates we will be able to deliver, et cetera. So as a result, we will restructure these partnerships to meet sure that in the end it adds up to 3%or 4%.

我們創造系統和槓桿來幫助我們應對財務現實。我們事先並不確切地了解客戶的信用狀況。我們有期望。我們有希望，但我們不知道誰會申請，也不知道我們能夠提供多少批准率，等等。因此，我們將重組這些合作夥伴關係，以確保最終加起來達到 3% 或 4%。

Perfect. Thank you, Max.

完美的。謝謝你，麥克斯。

Matt O'Neill, FT Partners.

馬特‧歐尼爾，《金融時報》合夥人。

Thank, for taking my question. Max and Michael. I'm just wanted to focus in again on the I guess what you bolded in the shareholder letter around the intention and expectation to be profitable, in this fourth quarter and therefore beyond and sort of dovetail onto some of the discussions that we had at the Investor Day around a longer-term aspiration of formalizing as a bank and so forth. Does this sort of accelerate that plan at all? Is that still something on kind of the medium term time line? Any thoughts around that would be helpful. Thanks.

謝謝你回答我的問題。麥克斯和麥可.我只是想再次關注我猜你在股東信中關於在第四季度以及之後實現盈利的意圖和期望的粗體字，這與我們在股東大會上進行的一些討論相吻合。成為銀行等的長期願望。這會加速該計劃嗎？這仍然是中期時間表上的事情嗎？任何有關此的想法都會有所幫助。謝謝。

(inaudible) we do not need to linked to conduct our business in the way that we'd like to conduct it. So that is one of the many routes available to us under the right circumstances. But it is not in any way requirement that it's not I think we are marching towards it particular.

（聽不清楚）我們不需要連結即可按照我們希望的方式開展業務。因此，這是在適當情況下我們可以選擇的眾多路線之一。但我認為我們正在朝著這個目標邁進，但這並不要求我們這樣做。

If the day we decide we're going to become a bank wealth will tell you, hey, we decided we're going to go to a bank that has not happened, and that's not what we're saying. GAAP profitability is really important than momentous.

如果我們決定要成​​為銀行財富的那一天會告訴你，嘿，我們決定去一家尚未發生的銀行，而這不是我們所說的。 GAAP 獲利能力確實比重大更重要。

I would like the record to show, but it involves local torsion is actually really important thing that has a -- in this very moment. I want people to understand, we didn't what brought about and said, Well, gosh, now we have to go get GAAP profitable. We've been saying for literally years and years that we are on this track to make more transactions happen.

我希望記錄顯示，但它涉及局部扭轉實際上是非常重要的事情，就在此時此刻。我希望人們明白，我們沒有帶來什麼，然後說，好吧，天哪，現在我們必須讓 GAAP 獲利。多年來我們一直在說，我們正在這條軌道上實現更多交易。

Unit economics are great. We get enough transactions and multiplied by the marginal transaction, it's going to exceed both the fixed and then eventually the rest of the costs in the business. And now we can see it. So clearly, we are not afraid to say here's what's going to happen, but it is the commentary on a natural course of the business.

單位經濟效益非常好。我們獲得足夠的交易並乘以邊際交易，它將超過固定成本，最終超過業務的其餘成本。現在我們可以看到它了。很明顯，我們並不害怕說出將要發生的事情，但這是對業務自然過程的評論。

While we invest all of our available cycles and dollars in growth, managing credit and all the things that we do here. And so as much as I could have involved because I wanted people to know we take it seriously the minutes we are absolutely going to get there which look great about where the business is.

我們將所有可用的周期和資金投入到成長、管理信貸以及我們在這裡所做的所有事情上。我盡可能地參與其中，因為我想讓人們知道，我們會認真對待這件事，我們絕對會到達那裡，這看起來很好地說明了業務的狀況。

But I know part of it is a definable and it will keep we were always on this journey. And now we see a destination beyond that, we'll have another reveal. I don't know what it's going to be. We won't be returning bank by the way, but it will be something else and something interesting, some kind of financial metric, Michael will come up with (inaudible) production by the end of this year.

但我知道其中一部分是可以定義的，它將讓我們始終走在這條路上。現在我們看到了一個超越這個目的地的目的地，我們將有另一個揭示。我不知道會發生什麼事。順便說一句，我們不會歸還銀行，但這將是其他一些有趣的東西，某種財務指標，邁克爾將在今年年底提出（聽不清楚）生產。

Understood. Thank you.

明白了。謝謝。

Thnak you. There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to pass the call back over to Zane Keller.

謝謝你。目前沒有其他問題。我想把電話轉給贊恩·凱勒。

Thank you, everybody, for joining the call today, and we look forward to speaking with you again, next quarter. Thank you.

感謝大家今天加入電話會議，我們期待下個季度再次與您交談。謝謝。

This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與。