Aeva Technologies Inc (AEVA) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

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  • Operator

  • Good day. My name is MJ, and I will be your conference facilitator. I would like to welcome everyone to Aeva Technologies third-quarter 2023 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's conference call is being recorded and simultaneously webcast.

  • I would now like to turn the call over to Andrew Fung, Director of Investor Relations. Andrew, please go ahead.

  • Andrew Fung - IR

  • Thank you, and welcome, everyone, to Aeva's third-quarter 2023 earnings conference call. Joining on the call today are Soroush Salehian, Aeva's Co-Founder and CEO; and Saurabh Sinha, Aeva's CFO. Ahead of this call, we issued our third-quarter 2023 press release and presentation, which we will refer to today and can be found on our Investor Relations website at investors.aeva.com.

  • Please note that on this call, we will be making forward-looking statements based on current expectations and assumptions, which are subject to risks and uncertainties. These statements reflect our views only as of today and should not be relied upon as representative of our views as of any subsequent date.

  • These statements are subject to a variety of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from expectations. For a further discussion of the material risks and other important factors that could affect our financial results, please refer to our filings with the SEC, including our most recent Form 10-Q and Form 10-K.

  • In addition, during today's call, we will discuss non-GAAP financial measures, which we believe are useful as supplemental measures of Aeva's performance. These non-GAAP measures should be considered in addition to and not as a substitute for or in isolation from GAAP results. The webcast replay of this call will be available on our company website under the Investor Relations link.

  • And with that, let me turn the call over to Soroush.

  • Soroush Salehian - CEO & Co-Founder

  • Thank you, Andrew, and good afternoon, everyone. It's been an incredibly exciting time at Aeva. As the adoption of FMCW LiDAR continues to build, Aeva's leading this trend, delivering production wins in both automotive and industrial. And with growing interest for Aeva's unique 4D LiDAR-on-Chip technology and continued advancement of a number of large opportunities, we have strategically positioned Aeva to be in the strongest position for success and to secure additional wins.

  • I would like to highlight key accomplishments, which are summarized on slide 4. First, I'm thrilled to share that Aeva was selected by May Mobility to be the exclusive production supplier of long-range LiDAR for their autonomous vehicles. This is a multiyear production agreement where Aeva's 4D LiDAR will replace conventional time-of-flight long-range LiDAR and was selected to help May Mobility further scale by enabling a broader operational design domain.

  • Second, Aeva was also awarded a multiyear production program with Nikon for their high-precision industrial inspection products. We have been working with Nikon for some time now, and we're excited to leverage our LiDAR-on-Chip technology with micron level of precision to advance to the production phase and open new opportunities in the established and growing industrial automation market.

  • Third, we continue to make strong progress with a top 10 OEM and are now in the final phase with this OEM. This quarter, we received the OEM's highest available rating for manufacturing readiness. This paves the way to be a potential direct supplier to the OEM and is a clear indication of Aeva's ability to support major global automotive programs. We expect OEM to make the production program award decision over the next quarter.

  • And fourth, we further strengthened Aeva's position for success. We are pleased to welcome Dr. Stefan Sommer, former CEO of ZF Group and Board member at the Volkswagen Group responsible for procurement, to Aeva's Board to help further advance our automotive OEM opportunity.

  • And last, as we move to the production phase on the heels of our two multiyear production wins in automotive and industrial, and our continued momentum with top global OEMs, including a top 10 OEM, we're making a strategic decision to further bolster our already strong balance sheet with a raise of new capital of $145 million through an approximately $20 million private placement and $125million preferred shares facility with existing long-term stock holders. This strengthens Aeva's position to win additional OEM programs and support them beyond their start-up production in a way that minimizes near-term dilution.

  • I would now like to provide more color on our recent business developments, which begin on slide 6. Let's start with our production wins in auto with May Mobility, a leader in the development and deployment of AV technology. The company has strategic partnerships with some of the largest automotive and transportation companies in the world, including with Toyota, where they currently provide paid autonomous rides on the Toyota Sienna Autono-MaaS vehicle platform.

  • Through long-term contracts with transit agencies, municipalities, and other businesses, May Mobility operates transit services across a growing number of markets in the US, including Michigan, Texas, Minnesota, Arizona, and upcoming in California. To date, May Mobility has provided more than 350,000 rides using its proprietary multi-policy decision-making autonomous vehicle technology, with additional deployments planned to begin in 2024.

  • To further scale, May Mobility has been looking for next-generation sensors that can enable expansion of the operational design domain. They selected Aeva 4D LiDAR because they believe in the unique capabilities of FMCW technology and want to leverage Aeva to scale their operations.

  • Compared to time-of-flight LiDAR, Aeva's combination of long range and direct velocity measurement for every pixel detect and classify small hazardous objects faster and more accurately to provide the necessary reaction time across a broader range of conditions. And together with Aeva's Ultra Resolution, which utilizes our proprietary velocity data, differentiates stationary from dynamic points, we offer near camera level resolution, bringing more reliable perception that provides the confidence to expand.

  • We believe other inherent benefits of FMCW also bring value to May Mobility's AV stack. To provide some real-world examples, retroreflector blooming and road signs, and interference from other sources of light such as the sun, can challenge [some fine] LiDAR performance. FMCW is inherently immune to retroreflector blooming and ambient light, enabling Aeva's LiDAR [to deck] critical objects with no degradation in these scenarios and with clearly defined object segmentation.

  • These are just some of the differentiated capabilities that we hope to bring to our partner May Mobility. As part of our production program win, Aeva 4D LiDAR will be the exclusive long-range LiDAR on May Mobility's autonomous vehicles globally and replaces the conventional time-of-flight long-range LiDAR. The agreement includes a five-year volume commitment through 2028, with deliveries already starting this quarter and production ramping in 2025.

  • Moving now to slide 7. We achieved an important milestone in industrial automation with the award of our first production program with Nikon to use Aeva's LiDAR-on-Chip technology to power the next-generation high-precision industrial inspection products. This suite of products is used for industrial metrology and quality control during high-volume manufacturing.

  • And Nikon's current generation is already deployed to customers across the automotive, aerospace, and renewable energy industries, including some of the largest OEMs such as BMW, Stellantis, and other automakers.

  • Being the same silicon photonics chip architecture used for our automotive applications, but with different algorithms to achieve micron-level precision, Aeva's technology will enable Nikon to offer a faster and smaller solution than is currently available, bringing added value to Nikon's current customers as well as opening new opportunities for additional applications. The production award comes after two years of close collaboration with Nikon, develop and validate our LiDAR-on-Chip technology, meets Nikon's stringent performance requirements.

  • Aeva's starter production is on track to the target we set two years ago and is planned for late 2024. This production agreement includes minimum volume commitments from Nikon over the multiyear program. Beyond this, we continue to be engaged on additional opportunities in the industrial space. As we have previously discussed, the industrial automation market is an established and growing multi-billion-dollar opportunity, and high-precision measurement is a growing field within industrial automation, where we are seeing strong interest for Aeva's unique capability.

  • Because of this pull from the market, we developed a perception platform for high-precision measurements that utilizes software to adapt performance for different requirements across multiple non-automotive applications. Nikon will be the first to use this perception platform, and we look forward to bringing additional applications to the market.

  • Let's turn to slide 8 to discuss the latest in our collaboration with a top 10-OEM. This quarter, we continued to make strong progress with the OEM, most notably the approval of Aeva's manufacturing processes and ability for Aeva to be a potential direct supplier to the OEM. I'm incredibly proud to say that Aeva received the OEM's highest rating category for manufacturing readiness, which the OEM indicated is only given to a small percentage of their supplier base.

  • The rating is based on a comprehensive audit of Aeva's manufacturing team and processes and an on-site assessment of Aeva manufacturing partners' automated production facility. This is a clear validation of Aeva's maturity and ability to operate as a direct Tier 1 supplier for large global automotive programs.

  • Over the quarter, this OEM continues to expand their vehicle fleet with Aeva 4D LiDAR to support their milestone and overall AV stack. We remain highly encouraged by our progress and ability to help the OEM achieve their stringent requirements and use cases. This has resulted in Aeva being further downselected to the final phase with this OEM. We expect the OEM to award the production program in the next quarter and hope to have more to share soon.

  • Moving now to slide 9. We are excited to have Dr. Stefan Sommer join Aeva's Board of Directors. Stefan brings an extraordinary breadth of experience as an automotive industry veteran with a history of leadership and career in automotive.

  • Stefan's past leadership roles include some of the largest global automotive car makers, including member of the Board of Volkswagen Group and Head of Components and Procurement at the VW Group, as well as leading some of the most renowned automotive Tier 1 suppliers, including as a CEO of ZF Group, where he led and executed the strategy that helped grow ZF to become one of the world's largest Tier 1 suppliers.

  • With Aeva's commercial momentum in automotive, Dr. Sommer's experience will be invaluable as we work together to bring automotive programs to SOP and work toward winning additional opportunities. Given his deep knowledge of the automotive industry, Dr. Sommer's interest to join Aeva's Board points to the significant potential of Aeva's differentiated technology. We look forward to working together to accelerate adoption of Aeva's 4D LiDAR.

  • And with that, let me turn the call over to Saurabh to discuss the financials.

  • Saurabh Sinha - CFO

  • Thank you, Soroush, and good afternoon, everyone. Let's turn to slide 11, which summarizes Aeva's financial results for Q3 2023. Revenue for Q3 was $0.8 million, which continued to be driven by growing deliveries of Aeries II. Non-GAAP operating loss was $30.3 million as we maintained a deliberate and strategic approach to R&D and other operating spend.

  • Reflecting on our cash spend for the quarter, gross cash used, which we define as operating cash flow less capital expenditure, was $29.1 million. Our balance sheet remains strong with $233.7 million of cash, cash equivalents, and marketable securities at the end of Q3. And weighted average shares outstanding in the quarter was $222.8 million. To sum it up, Aeva is maintaining strong financial discipline while making significant progress on our commercial momentum.

  • As we move to the important stage of preparing for startup production, we will continue to be thoughtful in managing our capital with a focus on positioning Aeva to support our existing customers as well as winning additional programs. As part of this focus, we made a strategic decision to further bolster our already strong balance sheet with additional capital, as summarized on slide 13.

  • I would like to share more about what drove this decision. This year, we have been making significant progress on our objective, from multiple production program wins to advancing on other engagements, such as with the top 10 OEM, and demonstrating the maturity of Aeva's manufacturing and ability to support production program.

  • Because of this, we continue to see growing interest for our 4D LiDAR and are near the final decision stage on a number of opportunity. We believe the additional capital strategically puts Aeva in a stronger position to win additional programs by building OEM confidence in our ability to support multiple programs, including with other major automotive OEMs looking to select few suppliers who can support their high-volume production programs beyond SOP.

  • In total, we reached agreements for additional capital of $145 million with some of our largest and longest stockholders Adage and Sylebra, demonstrating their continued strong conviction in Aeva's unique technology and potential. Importantly, the financing structure minimizes near-term dilution with approximately $20 million of the total through a private placement of common stock.

  • The remaining $125 million is a non-voting preferred shares facility that is currently undrawn and can be drawn at Aeva's discretion upon a new automotive OEM production win. This flexibility will enable us to be strategic in how and when we may utilize the additional capital, demonstrating our continued focus on taking a prudent approach to capital deployment.

  • And with that, I will hand the call back to Soroush for closing remarks.

  • Soroush Salehian - CEO & Co-Founder

  • Thank you, Saurabh. When we started Aeva, we set out to bring the unique perception solution to a broad range of applications, from automated driving to industrial automation and beyond. While the macro environment has been challenging, I can say that I've never been more convinced in Aeva's potential and future outlook.

  • Our transition from development phase to production phase is gaining momentum with our latest production program wins with May Mobility and Nikon, highlighting both the broad applications for 4D LiDAR and us being on track for production deployments by 2025.

  • And we believe this is only the beginning. We continue to advance on a number of other large near-term opportunity, such as with a top 10 OEM, expanding our Board with leading automotive executive experience, and strategically bolstering our balance sheet to put Aeva in a further position of strength to secure additional production wins and support OEMs beyond their startup production.

  • I would like to thank our talented and dedicated team at Aeva for enabling us to achieve these milestones. Together with our stakeholders, I am excited to continue executing on our mission and bring 4D LiDAR to market.

  • With that, we will now open the line up for question.

  • Operator

  • (Operator Instructions) Joe Moore, Morgan Stanley.

  • Joseph Moore - Analyst

  • Great, thank you. Wonder if you could talk about the progress with the Tier 1 win that you talked about. I guess if you're going to be able to make the announcement in the next quarter, does that mean that the business is already won and met the announcement, it's kind of more of a formality? I guess, will you be able to disclose who the customer is at that -- in this next quarter timeframe?

  • Soroush Salehian - CEO & Co-Founder

  • Hey, Joe, yeah, happy to answer the question. What I can say is as we talked on the call and as we have talked throughout the past few months, we have continued to make step-by-step progress in a stronger and stronger way with this OEM. In the past few months, the past quarter, they have deployed additional vehicles using our LiDARs with our technology on the road.

  • And then what we are now is really in that final phase of the discussions, the negotiations, the commercial topics as it goes towards the production awards. It has not been awarded yet, but as mentioned, we're feeling strong about that and we intend to receive the nomination award decision from the OEM in the next quarter. And of course, we fully hope that we can also talk about and name the OEM at that time.

  • And obviously this is the top 10 OEM. So we think this is a definitely a very important program that we've been working towards for some time. And on the heels of some of these wins and all the announcement we talked about today, we continue to make progress with this OEM, but also other top global OEMs that we're progressing and advancing with across automotive as well as industrial applications.

  • Joseph Moore - Analyst

  • Yes, I wanted to ask about that. I mean, to the extent that you're this close to making an announcement with one top 10 OEM, when you look at the kind of capability that your technology brings, I would think that would start to create that enthusiasm. What time frame -- how long should we expect it to take if you get interest from other OEMs? How long would it take to move that into something that could drive revenue down the road?

  • Soroush Salehian - CEO & Co-Founder

  • Yes. So as we have talked about, the programs we're talking about here -- first of all, the two wins that we actually announced this week are both for [mid-decade] SOPs, right? So May Mobility in 2025, Nikon in 2025, different industries. We have been talking about this for some time. We said we're going to go to production '25. Now we are showing a validation, and these are the two big points that are shown there.

  • Additionally, there's other OEM programs, including the top 10 OEM, also has similar mid-decade type SOPs. We have not shared that yet. And at the right timelines we can talk about it, we will. But that's when things are going to also start transitioning as we go along. As we're moving now from this kind of development phase towards the production phase, we believe that it's going to start to translate towards those increasing revenues and also growth in our actual shipments and sales [revenues], with multiple of these customers.

  • So that's what I can say right now. But I think from a timing standpoint, those timelines remain as we have discussed before.

  • Joseph Moore - Analyst

  • Great. Thank you very much.

  • Operator

  • Colin Rusch, Oppenheimer.

  • Colin Rusch - Analyst

  • Thanks so much, guys. As you've gotten OEMs starting to work with some of this velocity data a little bit more detail, can you talk about what you're seeing in terms of how they're using it and what it's allowing them to do in terms of differentiating between different types of objects as well as some [types of] navigation systems?

  • Soroush Salehian - CEO & Co-Founder

  • Yes, Colin. Happy to answer that. So I think we have been talking about the general transition from perception and [sensing] standpoint over time, which is not overnight, but over time from more time of flight especially in the long-range sensing towards FMCW. And this is in automotive, but also in other applications in industrial, that's also we're seeing.

  • I think with the announcement that we've been talking about this week, with the validation that we see, with the production deal with May Mobility, for example, and with Nikon, we are seeing some of those actually form and really [good place]. But in automotive, for example, there is a number of reasons that OEMs go and look at actually switching over to Aeva or really expanding with it.

  • [We don't necessarily see] always about switching. It's actually also more about being able to do what they cannot really do before, which is really enabled. It's enabling how they actually can expand their operating [zone] domains. So as you go from lower speeds to higher speeds, the highway speed, as you're able to do that, there are a number of use cases that need to be met, especially in working with a number of OEMs.

  • The customers we have so far, they have always had challenges [and investors] regardless of the technology they used before. And when they started using Aeva and our FMCW approach, that's when it starts to create the using the velocity dimension, having the advantages of no interference, the long range sensing, and all resolution features. It starts to actually -- it's not about the specs and the [seeds], it starts to actually help them solve actual real-world use cases to deploy safe, highway-autonomy-type applications.

  • And that's where I think is far from what's very exciting for us is seeing that actually happen on the road with real-world testing. And that's the case, for example, with the top 10 OEM. In May Mobility's case, as we've previously mentioned, they are looking to also scale their offering design domain, right? And with the existing solutions they had, that was challenging our position. With our approach, they see the potential, with the velocity and the FMCW approach, to be able to actually do that and scale their operations growth. So that's in automotive.

  • And in industrial separately, we also see the opportunity, which really highlights the flexibility of the technology to continue to expand in industrial applications, where performance, size, and cost all have to be continuously improved. And that's where we see some of that potential and the momentum we've gained, for example, with Nikon now validating it and doing moving towards the production phase. So it's about enabling new use cases. It's about helping the customer solve what they cannot before. And that's I think what we're all about.

  • So I hope that helps answers your question.

  • Colin Rusch - Analyst

  • Yes, it's incredibly helpful. And then on the manufacturing side, if you ramp up with Fabrinet, can you talk about where the real meaningful challenges are for you guys right now between now and when you have to start delivering the Nikon? It would seem that you guys have to [be] awfully close. So I want to understand what sort of hurdles are remaining before you feel really confident on scaling up?

  • Soroush Salehian - CEO & Co-Founder

  • Yeah. So as we said, so maybe just talking briefly about the opportunity with Nikon and answer your question in that. So we've been working with Nikon, of course, for a couple of years now. And even about two years ago, we set out a target to go to production by 2025.

  • This week, we announced that we are not only on track. We have completed the validation and meeting the stringent requirements from Nikon to the micron-level precision, which, by the way, is also a unique feature to FMCW to our understanding versus [time acquired]. And I think from a timing standpoint, obviously, as we said, that means that we need to go start our production ramping for Nikon late next year. So that Nikon's [part of that ability] can happen by 2025. And we have been working on this for some time.

  • So as we said earlier in the year, we set out to extend our manufacturing on the system side. We are continuing now to bring in additional automation on the manufacturing of our LiDAR-on-Chip module, which is really the core and the heart of the product that goes -- that we supply to Nikon in addition with our processing.

  • So that is the focus for us. I think in the next number of months as we get closer, we'll be talking about updates on the progress for this. But we have been working with Fabrinet and team we have on-site there to really prepare and continue expanding the outputs and throughputs and focusing on the yields in our automated manufacturing line over there that you'll look towards.

  • Colin Rusch - Analyst

  • Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

  • Operator

  • Suji DeSilva, ROTH Capital.

  • Suji DeSilva - Analyst

  • Hi, Soroush. Hi, Saurabh. Question on the top 10 OEM as well for me. I just want to be clear, the one you're talking about here, is that the same one with the award win you announced and the perception stack? I just want to clarify that.

  • Soroush Salehian - CEO & Co-Founder

  • Yeah, this is the same.

  • Suji DeSilva - Analyst

  • It's all the same one. Okay.

  • Soroush Salehian - CEO & Co-Founder

  • Yeah, same one that we've been talking about.

  • Suji DeSilva - Analyst

  • Great.

  • Soroush Salehian - CEO & Co-Founder

  • It's not the only one that has differentiated, obviously --

  • Suji DeSilva - Analyst

  • Understood.

  • Soroush Salehian - CEO & Co-Founder

  • There are multiple OEMs that are there.

  • Suji DeSilva - Analyst

  • Understood. And then so for this OEM, have you specified whether this engagement is for a broad platform win for the OEM that will be multiple models and across whether it's a target sort of vehicle, just to understand if you've kind of clarified the breadth of your opportunity here?

  • Soroush Salehian - CEO & Co-Founder

  • Yeah. No, we have not discussed that. I think that will be, I think, the right opportunity in the future as we go towards the final decision coming up. But what I can tell you is, obviously the opportunity is from a top 10 OEM with large volumes and with production in the middle of the decade as we've talked about. So this is not some sort of a pilot program or something like that that we're talking about here.

  • Suji DeSilva - Analyst

  • Okay. That color definitely helps. And then lastly, on the OEM or just in general with the auto OEM waterfall wins, is there anything that gets clinical easier after you secure this first one publicly and start kind of delivering to them in terms of the second, third, and fourth win? Just wanted to understand how that might be or whether they're each kind of fresh starts?

  • Soroush Salehian - CEO & Co-Founder

  • Yes. Well, first of all, I think -- hopefully you can see some of that trend already happening, right? So we've been talking about our progress and momentum in this space and converting additional programs to wins. This week, we announced not one, but two in each sector, and we're really excited about that. And these are folks that, for example, in May's case, have been using some [applied] before and are familiar buyers.

  • So I think that's where we see opportunity and the progress to actually be able to move faster because folks have experience, they know what they're doing, they've been doing this for some time. And they can also appreciate the advantages in terms of what they can see that helps them -- enable them to expand their operation, scale up their deployments, and all of that.

  • And we absolutely believe that with all the work that we're doing here with, I think, really the breakthrough the past few months that we've had on the heels of two OEM wins, expanding our Board with automotive experience with Dr. Sommer coming on and his renowned experience in this space as the CEO of ZF and Board member at Volkswagen, as well as bolstering our balance sheet, all of this really helps us to position Aeva in a really strong position to win additional programs as we go towards production and also give confidence to our customers that are looking at a select few players that can, not just win something, but also be there beyond their SOPs to support them. And that's really what we're doing here in a multistep approach.

  • So that's what I can say. And I think, obviously, we do believe that with us delivering on a first large OEM program win, subsequent ones are going to be down much more streamlined to get and move on from there.

  • Suji DeSilva - Analyst

  • Okay. Very helpful, Soroush. Thank you.

  • Operator

  • Richard Shannon, Craig-Hallum.

  • Richard Shannon - Analyst

  • Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my questions as well. Maybe we'll hit on the top 10 OEM here. Soroush, I think your language was -- you were downselected in this past quarter here. Does that mean you are the only supplier remaining that they're looking at or are there others?

  • Soroush Salehian - CEO & Co-Founder

  • So look, at the end of the day, we never know in terms of what the end customer does, and that is not something that necessarily we look at. I think what we really look at is there have been actually multiple layers of downselection that has happened. At this stage, we're in the final phase. And as I mentioned, the decision coming up in the next quarter.

  • But also importantly, we haven't worked with this OEM for some time and they have already started deploying our sensing technology on their vehicles, and which actually replaces some time-of-flight technology as we have talked about in the past. So that is what I can say right now; that gives us that additional further information and support that we're looking for.

  • So obviously, we're also working on around providing some of our perception and collaborating with the OEM on the perception to really utilize the FMCW advantages, including the velocity picture. And since the last time we spoke, of course, the OEM has also deployed with our LiDAR on additional vehicles that they have continued to build. So a number of things happening, but I think I will stop there for the information.

  • Richard Shannon - Analyst

  • Okay. Fair enough. Appreciate that color. My follow-on question here is related to May Mobility. How do we think of them in terms of the ultimate scale of opportunity that exists [within through] 2028? I don't know if this is something that's even with an order magnitude of a typical automotive OEM, you're going with. But anyways, you could give us some color on how big that could be relatively speaking?

  • Soroush Salehian - CEO & Co-Founder

  • Sure. Happy to. So let me give you a bit of color about May and answer your question hopefully there. So obviously, we're very excited about this. It's one of the first deployments for us in the automotive mobility sector, starting with the Aeries II deployment already this year. And let me give you a little bit of background of May and kind of give you some context about the size and the comparison you mentioned.

  • So first of all, May has been around for a long time, been working with a number of players, and they're partnered with some of the largest automotive companies, including Toyota. Their operating paid autonomous rights today across four states, with more coming next year, and they have done over 350,000 rights and are taking a more measured approach when it comes to scaling and as compared to some of the other players [who need to take contracts] from the municipalities and cities.

  • And in terms of scale, I may have talked about this, they're scaling the operations by thousands of vehicles in the next few years here. And again, what they see in Aeva is the unique FMCW approach, enabling them really to expand their current ODD, their operating design domains, from where they are now to really enable the scaling as they continue to expand.

  • And so we're talking about here the multiyear production deal, with which Aeva is the exclusive long lead LiDAR supplier for May vehicles globally. We have minimum volume commitments starting from this quarter every year through the end of 2028. And in terms of the size of this opportunity, we actually believe this is similar to the potential size of some of the initial luxury passenger vehicle programs that are coming to the market.

  • And that's where we can say, again, may have probably help about 1,000 vehicles. We're talking about multiple LiDARs per vehicle. And the other thing I think that's interesting here is, as compared to the luxury passenger (inaudible) is that the mobility business model does actually enable us in a mutually beneficial scenario to have higher ASPs than the typical passenger vehicles that are considerable, right? And so that is why in terms of the overall size, we're actually pretty excited about this.

  • And also, this aligned to the timing of what we have always talked about 2025, with our production. So we're working hard towards delivering our commitments and really excited to partner with them for the next years in.

  • Richard Shannon - Analyst

  • Okay. Appreciate that detail as well. I will jump out of the line guys. Thank you very much.

  • Operator

  • Thank you very much. This concludes our question-and-answer session. And the conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.