Walker & Dunlop Inc (WD) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone, and welcome to the Q4 2024 Walker & Dunlop Incorporated earnings conference call. Today's conference is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 Walker & Dunlop Incorporated 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。今天的會議正在錄製。

At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Kelsey Duffey. Please go ahead, ma'am.

現在，我想將會議交給凱爾西·杜菲 (Kelsey Duffey)。請繼續，女士。

Thank you, Lynette. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining Walker & Dunlop's fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 earnings call. I have with me this morning our Chairman and CEO, Willy Walker; and our CFO, Greg Florkowski.

謝謝你，Lynette。大家早安。感謝您參加 Walker & Dunlop 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。今天早上和我一起的有我們的董事長兼執行長威利沃克 (Willy Walker)；以及我們的財務長 Greg Florkowski。

This call is being webcast live on our website, and a recording will be available later today. Both our earnings press release and website provide details on accessing the archive webcast. This morning, we posted our earnings release and presentation to the investor relations section of our website, www.walkerdunlop.com. These slides serve as a reference point for some of what Willy and Greg will touch on during the call.

本次電話會議將在我們的網站上進行現場直播，錄音將於今天晚些時候提供。我們的收益新聞稿和網站都提供了存取檔案網路廣播的詳細資訊。今天早上，我們將收益報告和簡報發佈到了我們網站 www.walkerdunlop.com 的投資者關係部分。這些幻燈片可作為 Willy 和 Greg 在通話期間談論的一些內容的參考點。

Please also note that we will reference the non-GAAP financial metrics, adjusted EBITDA, and adjusted core EPS during the course of this call. Please refer to the appendix of the earnings presentation for a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial metrics. Investors are urged to carefully read the forward-looking statements language in our earnings release.

另請注意，我們將在本次電話會議中參考非 GAAP 財務指標、調整後的 EBITDA 和調整後的核心 EPS。請參閱收益報告附錄，以了解這些非 GAAP 財務指標的調整。敬請投資人仔細閱讀我們收益報告中的前瞻性陳述語言。

Statements made on this call, which are not historical facts, may be deemed forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements describe our current expectations and actual results may differ materially. Walker & Dunlop is under no obligation to update or alter our forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, and we expressly disclaim any obligation to do so.

本次電話會議所作的陳述並非歷史事實，可能被視為《1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法》所定義的前瞻性陳述。前瞻性陳述描述了我們目前的預期，實際結果可能存在重大差異。Walker & Dunlop 沒有義務更新或修改我們的前瞻性陳述，無論是否出現新資訊、未來事件或其他原因，且我們明確表示不承擔任何此類義務。

More detailed information about risk factors can be found in our annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC. I'll now turn the call over to Willy.

有關風險因素的更多詳細信息，請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的年度和季度報告。我現在將電話轉給威利。

Thank you, Kelsey, and good morning, everyone. We ended 2024 with strength, closing $13.4 billion of total transaction volume, up 45% year over year, generating diluted earnings per share of $1.32, up 42% from Q4 2023.

謝謝你，凱爾西，大家早安。我們以強勁的勢頭結束了 2024 年，總交易量達到 134 億美元，年增 45%，每股攤薄收益為 1.32 美元，比 2023 年第四季成長 42%。

Agency loan originations totaled $4.9 billion on the quarter, pushing revenues from mortgage servicing rights up 62% from Q4 '23. Q4 adjusted EBITDA was $95 million, up 8% year over year, and adjusted core EPS was $1.34, down 6% from last year.

本季機構貸款發放總額達 49 億美元，推動抵押貸款服務權收入較 23 年第四季成長 62%。第四季調整後 EBITDA 為 9,500 萬美元，較去年同期成長 8%，調整後核心 EPS 為 1.34 美元，較去年同期下降 6%。

The strong finish to the year helped us close the significant gap to our annual financial targets after an exceedingly slow start to the year, bringing full year diluted EPS to $3.19, flat from 2023; adjusted core EPS to $4.97, up 6%; and adjusted EBITDA to a record level of $329 million, up 9% from 2023.

今年的強勁收官幫助我們在開局極其緩慢之後縮小了與年度財務目標之間的巨大差距，使全年攤薄每股收益達到 3.19 美元，與 2023 年持平；調整後核心每股收益至 4.97 美元，成長 6%；調整後 EBITDA 達到創紀錄的 3.29 億美元，較 2023 年成長 9%。

Given the challenging macroeconomic background drop and typically challenging competitive landscape, these results are a testament to the talent, teamwork, and tenacity of the Walker & Dunlop team.

考慮到宏觀經濟背景下滑的挑戰和通常充滿挑戰的競爭環境，這些結果證明了 Walker & Dunlop 團隊的才華、團隊合作和毅力。

As shown on slide 4, Q4 total transaction volume included $3.2 billion of Fannie Mae lending, up 91% from Q4 '23, and a very welcome surge in lending activity from our largest financial partner. Walker & Dunlop once again finished the year as Fannie Mae's largest dust partner, an honor we have now won for the past six consecutive years.

如投影片 4 所示，第四季的總交易量包括 32 億美元的房利美貸款，較 23 年第四季成長 91%，而且我們最大的金融合作夥伴的貸款活動也出現了令人欣喜的激增。沃克鄧祿普 (Walker & Dunlop) 在今年再次成為房利美 (Fannie Mae) 最大的債務合作夥伴，這是我們連續六年獲得這項殊榮。

We grew our Freddie Mac loan originations in the quarter by 19% to $1.6 billion, and finished the year originating $5.2 billion of loans with Freddie Mac, making us their fourth-largest opt to go lending partner in 2024.

本季度，我們的房地美貸款發放量增加了 19%，達到 16 億美元，年底向房地美髮放了 52 億美元的貸款，使我們成為 2024 年房地美第四大貸款合作夥伴。

The GSEs continue to play an extremely important role in the multi-family financing market, and Walker & Dunlop's team focus on partnerships with the GSEs have allowed us to remain at the top of the league tables for the past decade. We will continue to invest in these businesses by hiring and retaining the very best bankers in our industry, improving the processes and systems we use to underwrite and fund loans, and continuing to integrate all of the products and service offerings Walker & Dunlop has built to bring one-stop shopping to our clients across the country.

政府支持企業 (GSE) 繼續在多戶型融資市場中發揮極其重要的作用，而 Walker & Dunlop 團隊專注於與政府支持企業 (GSE) 的合作，這使得我們在過去十年中一直處於領先地位。我們將繼續對這些業務進行投資，聘用和留住業界最優秀的銀行家，改善我們承銷和資助貸款的流程和系統，並繼續整合 Walker & Dunlop 建立的所有產品和服務，為全國各地的客戶提供一站式購物服務。

We closed $3.5 billion of property sales transactions in Q4, up 20% year over year, and a very strong finish to the year, given that rates moved up 90 basis points after the Fed's rate cut announcement in September. Our team did a spectacular job holding deals together as rates and client expectations shifted throughout the quarter.

我們在第四季度完成了 35 億美元的房地產銷售交易，比去年同期增長了 20%，考慮到 9 月份聯準會宣布降息後利率上升了 90 個基點，這一業績對於今年來說是一個非常強勁的收官。儘管利率和客戶期望在整個季度發生變化，我們的團隊仍然出色地完成了交易。

For the full year, our property sales team sold $9.8 billion of multi-family properties across the United States, up 11% from 2023, and a great accomplishment on the year, after only selling $2.7 billion of properties in the first half of the year. We held our team together throughout the downturn to be able to capture deal flow when markets returned, and our investment sales team's efforts in the back half of '24 were fantastic and set us up very well for 2025 and beyond.

全年而言，我們的房地產銷售團隊在全美銷售了價值 98 億美元的多戶型房產，較 2023 年增長 11%，這是今年的一大成就，而上半年我們的房地產銷售僅價值 27 億美元。在整個經濟低迷時期，我們始終團結一致，以便在市場復甦時能夠抓住交易流，我們的投資銷售團隊在 2024 年下半年的努力非常出色，為我們 2025 年及以後的發展做好了充分準備。

We began 2024 with the Federal Reserve foreshadowing multiple rate cuts at the short end of the curve that would likely bring down the cost of borrowing and commercial real estate significantly.

2024 年開始，聯準會預示著將在利率曲線短端多次降息，這可能會大幅降低借貸和商業房地產的成本。

Yet the rate cuts didn't materialize in the first half of the year, and when they did, the long bond surged. Yet throughout the year, the WMD team remained focused, met our clients' needs, and grew total transaction volume from $6.4 billion in Q1 to $8.4 billion in Q2 to $11.6 billion in Q3 to $13.4 billion in Q4.

然而，降息並未在上半年實現，而當降息真正實現時，長期債券價格卻大幅上漲。然而，在全年中，WMD 團隊始終保持專注，滿足客戶的需求，並將總交易量從第一季的 64 億美元成長到第二季的 84 億美元、第三季的 116 億美元、第四季的 134 億美元。

We love this consistent quarter-by-quarter growth in transaction volumes as the market began to transact again after the rate increase shocks of 2022 and 2023. We ended the year with average production per banker broker of $172 million, up $35 million per banker broker from 2023, yet still $12 million less than the $184 million average banker broker production prior to the pandemic in 2019.

我們喜歡這種交易量逐季持續成長的趨勢，因為在經歷了 2022 年和 2023 年的升息衝擊之後，市場又開始進行交易。截至今年年底，我們每位銀行經紀人的平均產值為 1.72 億美元，比 2023 年每位銀行經紀人增加了 3,500 萬美元，但仍比 2019 年疫情爆發前每位銀行經紀人的 1.84 億美元的平均產值少 1,200 萬美元。

Given the strength of the W&D brand, expanded service offering, and investments in people, brand, and technology we have made since 2019, this metric should continue marching upward as the macro fundamentals to commercial real estate improve and transaction volumes grow. As a point of reference, coming out of the pandemic when transaction activity was at its peak, our average total transaction volume per banker broker was $311 million.

鑑於 W&D 品牌的實力、不​​斷擴大的服務範圍以及我們自 2019 年以來在人才、品牌和技術方面的投資，隨著商業房地產宏觀基本面的改善和交易量的增長，這一指標應該會繼續上升。作為參考，在疫情結束後交易活動達到頂峰的時候，我們每位銀行經紀人的平均總交易量為 3.11 億美元。

Walker & Dunlop operates in an enormous industry with an extremely large total addressable market, and it is up to us, our team, to grow transaction volumes, revenues, and earnings in 2025 and beyond.

Walker & Dunlop 所處的產業非常龐大，整體潛在市場非常龐大，我們團隊的職責是，在 2025 年及以後增加交易量、收入和收益。

Our technology-enabled appraisal and small balance lending businesses did extremely well in Q4 and throughout 2024. Apprise more than doubled quarterly revenues from $2.4 million in Q1 to $4.9 million in Q4 for total 2024 revenues of $13.3 million, up 43% year over year.

我們的技術支援的評估和小額貸款業務在第四季度和整個 2024 年表現非常出色。Apprise 季度營收從第一季的 240 萬美元成長了一倍多至第四季的 490 萬美元，2024 年總營收為 1,330 萬美元，較去年同期成長 43%。

We achieved significant efficiencies with regard to data processing and appraisal turn times throughout the year and are poised for strong growth in this business in 2025. Similarly, our small balance lending business grew total revenues by 20% in 2024, and ended the year as the number-4 small balance GSE lender in the country.

我們在全年的數據處理和評估週轉時間方面取得了顯著的效率，並準備在 2025 年實現該業務的強勁成長。同樣，我們的小額貸款業務在 2024 年的總收入增長了 20%，並在年底成為該國第四大小額政府支持企業貸款機構。

Both Apprise and SBL were startup businesses only a few years ago and have both established the people, processes, and technology to scale dramatically in the coming years. And as they do, we will migrate the data processes and technology from these businesses to our scaled capital markets, servicing, and asset management businesses.

Apprise 和 SBL 幾年前都剛成立，如今都已建立了人才、流程和技術，將在未來幾年內大幅擴張。同時，我們將把這些業務的資料流程和技術遷移到我們規模化的資本市場、服務和資產管理業務。

Before I turn the call over to Greg to run through our quarterly and annual financial results, I want to focus for a moment on the challenges we have faced over the past two years and the steps we are taking to move forward from here.

在我將電話轉給格雷格來介紹我們的季度和年度財務業績之前，我想先集中談談我們在過去兩年中面臨的挑戰以及我們今後將採取的措施。

Walker & Dunlop's credit track record is one of the very best in the commercial real estate industry. When I joined Walker & Dunlop, we honestly couldn't afford to take credit losses. And as we have scaled the company over the past two decades, we have maintained an impeccable credit culture, which has included thorough training, investments in and implementation of new systems, and a generally conservative approach to credit risk.

Walker & Dunlop 的信用記錄是商業房地產行業中最好的記錄之一。當我加入 Walker & Dunlop 時，我們真的承受不起信用損失。在過去二十年裡，隨著公司規模的擴大，我們一直保持著無可挑剔的信用文化，包括全面的培訓、對新系統的投資和實施，以及對信用風險採取普遍保守的態度。

Yet during the pandemic, due to changes in workflows, and post pandemic, due to the sheer volume of business, we made mistakes that have caused us to buy back several loans from the GSEs. We take these buybacks extremely seriously and have implemented new process controls and technology to protect against them happening again.

然而，在疫情期間，由於工作流程的變化，以及疫情過後，由於業務量龐大，我們犯了一些錯誤，導致我們從政府支援企業回購了幾筆貸款。我們非常重視這些回購，並實施了新的流程控制和技術以防止它們再次發生。

We have also decided to create a new special asset management group led by seasoned Walker and executive Aaron Perlis to work out these loans and recover as much value as we possibly can over the coming years.

我們還決定成立一個新的特殊資產管理小組，由經驗豐富的沃克和高管亞倫·佩利斯 (Aaron Perlis) 領導，以處理這些貸款並在未來幾年內盡可能地收回盡可能多的價值。

I will now turn the call over to Greg to talk through our financial results in more detail before I return to discuss our outlook for 2025 and beyond.

現在，我將把電話轉給格雷格，讓他更詳細地討論我們的財務業績，然後再回來討論我們對 2025 年及以後的展望。

Greg?

格雷格？

Thank you, Willy, and good morning everyone. On our last call, we spoke about the signs of a commercial real estate transaction market recovery, and the momentum we highlighted carried into the fourth quarter, leading to the most active transaction market in two years.

謝謝你，威利，大家早安。在我們上次電話會議中，我們談到了商業房地產交易市場復甦的跡象，我們強調的勢頭延續到了第四季度，並導致交易市場成為兩年來最活躍的市場。

The surge in transaction activity drove year over year and sequential growth in nearly every area of our business, including the highest quarterly diluted earnings per share since the great tightening began in 2022. With our strong fourth quarter, we ended the year closing total transaction volume of $40 billion, up 21% over 2023.

交易活動的激增推動了我們幾乎每個業務領域的同比和連續增長，包括自 2022 年大緊縮開始以來最高的季度攤薄每股收益。憑藉我們第四季的強勁表現，我們年底的總交易額達到 400 億美元，比 2023 年成長 21%。

Growth and origination fees and MSR revenues combined with our scaled servicing and asset management platform drove 7% growth in total revenues this year to $1.1 billion. Diluted earnings per share was $3.19 for 2024, up slightly from 2023. While we ended the year just below our annual target range, recall that through June, diluted EPS was down 37% from the first half of 2023, due to interest rate volatility and a slow start to the year for the GSEs.

成長和發起費用以及 MSR 收入加上我們規模化的服務和資產管理平台推動今年總收入成長 7%，達到 11 億美元。2024 年每股攤薄收益為 3.19 美元，較 2023 年略有成長。雖然我們今年的業績略低於年度目標範圍，但回想一下，截至 6 月，由於利率波動以及政府支持企業今年開局緩慢，稀釋每股收益較 2023 年上半年下降了 37%。

Our execution over the second half of the year highlights the earnings power of the W&D platform when transaction volume is recovered. The strong finish to the year from our capital markets business, combined with the consistent revenues from our servicing and asset management business, brought annual adjusted EBITDA to $329 million, a record for Walker & Dunlop, and up 9% over last year. Finally, adjusted Core EPS totaled $4.97 per share, up 6% over 2023.

我們下半年的執行凸顯了當交易量恢復時W&D平台的獲利能力。我們資本市場業務在今年取得了強勁的成績，加上我們服務和資產管理業務的穩定收入，使年度調整後 EBITDA 達到 3.29 億美元，創下了 Walker & Dunlop 的最高紀錄，比去年增長了 9%。最後，調整後的核心每股盈餘總計 4.97 美元，比 2023 年成長 6%。

Our segment reporting offers insight into how our businesses contribute to our financial performance. This quarter, due to a number of unique transactions, particularly in our servicing and asset management segment, these are even more helpful in fully understanding our financial success.

我們的分部報告深入了解了我們的業務如何為我們的財務表現做出貢獻。本季度，由於一些獨特的交易，特別是在我們的服務和資產管理部門，這些交易對於全面了解我們的財務成功更有幫助。

Starting with our capital market segment. As Willy mentioned, the recovery in the transaction market in the back half of the year drove significant improvement in the financial performance of our capital market segment, as shown on slide 7. Transaction volumes grew 45% year over year, led by a 56% improvement in debt financing volume and a 20% improvement in property sales activity.

從我們的資本市場部分開始。正如 Willy 所提到的，下半年交易市場的復甦推動了我們資本市場部門的財務表現顯著改善，如幻燈片 7 所示。交易量較去年同期增加45％，其中債務融資量增加56％，房地產銷售活動增加20％。

Segment revenue surged 40% to $181 million while expenses grew only 23%. As a result, operating margins for the segment improved significantly, and net income increased 131% to $40 million while adjusted EBITDA grew to $4 million, up from a loss of $2 million in a year ago fourth quarter.

該部門收入飆升 40% 至 1.81 億美元，而支出僅成長 23%。結果，該部門的營業利潤率大幅提高，淨收入成長 131%，達到 4,000 萬美元，調整後的 EBITDA 成長至 400 萬美元，高於去年同期第四季的 200 萬美元虧損。

We invested heavily throughout the great tightening to keep our capital markets team in place, and this quarter's results validate that strategy and underscore the performance we expect from this team as the market grows over the coming quarters and years.

我們在整個緊縮政策期間投入了巨額資金以維持我們的資本市場團隊，本季度的業績驗證了這一戰略，並強調了我們對該團隊在未來幾個季度和幾年市場增長過程中的表現的期望。

Our servicing and asset management, or SAM segment generated strong quarterly revenues that totaled $157 million up 13% year over year as shown on slide 8. Our servicing portfolio ended the year at $135 billion generating servicing fees in the quarter of $83 million, up 4% every year.

如投影片 8 所示，我們的服務和資產管理（SAM）部門創造了強勁的季度收入，總計 1.57 億美元，年增 13％。截至年底，我們的服務組合價值為 1,350 億美元，當季服務費收入為 8,300 萬美元，年增 4%。

Placement fees and other interest income of $40 million were down just 1% year over year, as increases in escrow balances offset decreases in short-term interest rates. In total, net income for the SAM segment was up 7% from the year-ago fourth quarter at $37 million, while adjusted EBITDA increased 12% to $124 million.

4,000 萬美元的安置費和其他利息收入年比僅下降 1%，因為託管餘額的增加抵消了短期利率的下降。整體而言，SAM 部門的淨收入較去年同期第四季成長 7%，達到 3,700 萬美元，而調整後的 EBITDA 成長 12%，達到 1.24 億美元。

During the quarter, there were several unique items in the SAM segment that impacted our financial results as shown on slide 9. First, over the course of the year, we estimate the value of realization revenues from the disposition of assets in our affordable housing investment portfolio with a final true up recognized in the fourth quarter.

在本季度，SAM 部門中有幾個獨特項目對我們的財務表現產生了影響，如幻燈片 9 所示。首先，我們估算一年內經濟適用房屋投資組合中資產處置所實現的收入價值，並在第四季度確認最終的調整。

This year, we did not meet our realization goals due to the slow sales market, and as a result, we recognized the $13 million downward adjustment from that true up, as shown in the first column of slide 9. Property dispositions and realization revenues are always market dependent and this adjustment is neither surprising nor concerning given market conditions this year.

今年，由於銷售市場低迷，我們未能實現目標，因此，我們確認了 1300 萬美元的下調，如幻燈片 9 第一列所示。房地產處置和實現收入始終取決於市場，考慮到今年的市場狀況，這種調整並不令人意外，也不令人擔憂。

Second, during the quarter, we entered into a contract to sell a portfolio of assets including interest held by a part of the business known as Walker & Dunlop Affordable Preservation or WDAP that were acquired as part of the Alliant transaction, the sale of one of the assets closed during the fourth quarter generating $11,000,000 of income from operations and $21,000,000 of adjusted EBITDA as shown in the second column of this slide.

其次，在本季度，我們簽訂了一項合同，出售一組資產，其中包括作為 Alliant 交易的一部分收購的 Walker & Dunlop Affordable Preservation 或 WDAP 部分業務所持有的權益，其中一項資產的出售在第四季度完成，產生了 11,000,000 美元的營業收入和 21,000,000 美元的調整後本欄調整。

The remaining assets are expected to close in the first half of 2025, as various consents are received. WDAP operating as a general partner of affordable and workforce housing assets with the goal of preserving and extending the affordability of the assets. After operating WDAP since 2021, we reached the decision that the business was not a long-term strategic growth opportunity due to the amount of capital required to scale the business and the overall return profile of the investments.

隨著收到各種同意，剩餘資產預計將於 2025 年上半年完成交易。作為經濟適用房和勞動力住房資產的普通合夥人，WDAP 致力於維護和延長這些資產的經濟適用性。自 2021 年營運 WDAP 以來，我們得出結論，由於擴大業務規模所需的資本量以及投資的整體回報狀況，該業務並不是長期策略成長機會。

Fortunately, we were able to place the assets with a buyer that carry on WDAP's mission. This was a discrete decision to realize a healthy return on this portfolio and exit a part of the business that was no longer a part of our long-term plans and in no way a reflection of our dedication to the affordable sector or our broader affordable business.

幸運的是，我們能夠將資產交給能夠繼續執行 WDAP 使命的買家。這是一個謹慎的決定，目的是實現該投資組合的健康回報並退出不再屬於我們長期計劃的部分業務，絕不反映我們對平價行業或更廣泛的平價業務的奉獻精神。

Next, with respect to credit, during Q4, we finalized agreements with Fannie Mae to repurchase two loans that we highlighted in our last earnings call. As shown in the third column on slide 9, we recognized $4 million of provision related expenses due to valuation declines in our repurchased assets as well as an additional $8 million of other expenses associated with the repurchases, including immediate repairs and maintenance.

接下來，關於信貸，在第四季度，我們與房利美達成協議，回購我們在上次財報電話會議上強調的兩筆貸款。如投影片 9 第三欄所示，由於我們回購資產的估值下降，我們確認了 400 萬美元的撥備相關費用，以及與回購相關的額外 800 萬美元的其他費用，包括即時維修和維護。

We have now repurchased five loans from the GSEs with an original principal balance of $87 million and recorded $24 million of provision and repurchase related expenses associated with the deals this year. We take these repurchases and the mistakes that led to them very seriously.

我們目前已從政府支援企業回購了五筆貸款，原始本金餘額為 8,700 萬美元，並記錄了今年與這些交易相關的 2,400 萬美元的撥備和回購相關費用。我們非常重視這些回購以及導致回購的錯誤。

In response to those mistakes and the sophisticated fraud schemes we uncovered, we made significant changes to our underwriting and quality control processes and recently received feedback from both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that our actions are setting the standard amongst us and opt-to-go lenders.

為了應對這些錯誤和我們發現的複雜的詐欺計劃，我們對核保和品質控制流程進行了重大改變，並且最近收到了房利美和房地美的反饋，他們認為我們的行動正在為我們和選擇去貸款機構樹立標準。

While the financial impact of these repurchases is immediate, we are taking a long term approach to the value of these assets and establish a dedicated team to manage and recoup as much of the value as we can in the coming years. While we reposition these assets, they will be reflected as real estate owned on our balance sheet. As such, we will not be marking the valuation allowance to market as we have during 2024, but we will take additional expenses associated with operating the assets while we hold them.

雖然這些回購的財務影響是立竿見影的，但我們對這些資產的價值採取了長期的考慮，並建立了一個專門的團隊來管理和收回未來幾年盡可能多的價值。當我們重新配置這些資產時，它們將反映為我們資產負債表上擁有的房地產。因此，我們不會像 2024 年那樣將估值準備金計入市場，但我們將承擔持有資產期間營運相關的額外費用。

With respect to our broader at risk portfolio, we oversee nearly 3,000 assets in that portfolio and we have an exceptional track record of taking credit risk. At the end of the year, we had only six defaults in the portfolio compared to seven in Q3, totaling just $42 million or 7 basis points of the at-risk portfolio.

就我們更廣泛的創投組合而言，我們負責管理該投資組合中的近 3,000 項資產，並且在承擔信用風險方面擁有卓越的記錄。截至年底，我們的投資組合中只有六起違約案例，而第三季有七起，總額僅 4,200 萬美元，佔創投組合的 7 個基點。

Consequently, we feel very good about the fundamentals of the portfolio and our $28 million risk sharing allowance. The final unique item during the quarter was a $16 million benefit from a downward adjustment to the estimated fair value of acquisition related earn out liabilities that impacted both our capital markets and SAM segments this quarter as shown in the fourth column on slide 9.

因此，我們對投資組合的基本面和 2800 萬美元的風險分擔準備金感到非常滿意。本季度的最後一個獨特項目是，對收購相關的盈利負債的估計公允價值進行下調，產生了 1600 萬美元的收益，這對我們本季度的資本市場和 SAM 部門都有影響，如幻燈片 9 的第四欄所示。

We underwrite acquisitions based off historical performance and forward projections and typically structure earnout hurdles to reward outperformance while protecting our downside risk. The rate tightening has been challenging and the adjustment to our expected earn out liabilities is an example of that performance-based structure protecting our downside as intended. In total, the four items I just described had limited impact on our consolidated financial results this quarter.

我們根據歷史表現和前瞻性預測來承銷收購，並且通常設計獲利障礙來獎勵優異表現，同時保護我們的下行風險。利率緊縮一直很有挑戰性，而我們預期獲利負債的調整就是基於績效的結構按預期保護我們下行風險的一個例子。總的來說，我剛才描述的四項對我們本季綜合財務表現的影響有限。

The overall impact was a net benefit of $2 million to income from operations or $0.05 per diluted share and the transactions also contributed $14 million to our record adjusted EBITDA this year, primarily driven by the sale of the portfolio of assets. The point being that our performance this quarter clearly demonstrates the earnings power of the core business.

整體影響是營業收入淨收益為 200 萬美元，或每股攤薄收益 0.05 美元，而這些交易還為我們今年創紀錄的調整後 EBITDA 貢獻了 1,400 萬美元，這主要得益於資產組合的出售。重點是，我們本季的業績清楚地表明了核心業務的獲利能力。

While $13 billion of quarterly transactions is a strong start to the recovery, we know that we have a team on the field capable of delivering even stronger results. And when combined with our durable recurring revenues, we have the opportunity to outperform as this recovery takes shape. We ended the year with $279 million of cash on our balance sheet.

雖然季度交易額達 130 億美元對於經濟復甦來說是一個強勁的開端，但我們知道，我們擁有一支能夠帶來更強勁業績的團隊。當與我們持久的經常性收入相結合時，我們就有機會在經濟復甦形成時表現出色。截至年底，我們的資產負債表上有 2.79 億美元現金。

The stability of our cash earnings led our Board of Directors to increase our quarterly dividend for the seventh consecutive year to $0.67 per share, a 3% increase and a 15% compound annual growth rate since it was initiated in 2018. It is a testament to our business model that we continue increasing our dividend despite the challenging market conditions over the last several years.

我們現金收益的穩定性促使我們的董事會連續第七年增加季度股息至每股 0.67 美元，自 2018 年啟動以來增長 3%，複合年增長率為 15%。儘管過去幾年市場環境充滿挑戰，我們仍繼續增加股息，這證明了我們的商業模式。

Our business model also allowed us to reduce the weighted average cost of our debt over the last 12 months as our cash generation during the downturn demonstrated our strength as a borrower. We feel very good about our capital position today, but we are constantly evaluating ways to capitalize on opportunities in the public debt markets to position our balance sheet effectively and we are keeping a closer eye on debt markets with credit spreads near historical lows.

我們的商業模式也使我們能夠在過去 12 個月內降低債務的加權平均成本，因為我們在經濟低迷時期的現金創造能力證明了我們作為借款人的實力。我們對目前的資本狀況感到非常滿意，但我們正在不斷評估如何利用公共債務市場的機會來有效地定位我們的資產負債表，並且我們正在密切關注信用利差接近歷史低點的債務市場。

We entered 2025 optimistic that commercial real estate market is on the path to recovery. And while there are uncertainties like stubborn inflation, the long-term path of interest rates and a change in the presidential administration, a few things are clear. The underlying fundamentals of the multifamily sector are undeniably strong. A large portion of the record new supply in 2024 was absorbed and in most markets nationwide there was rent growth.

我們樂觀地認為，2025 年商業房地產市場將走上復甦之路。儘管存在頑固通膨、長期利率走勢和總統政府更迭等不確定因素，但有幾件事是清楚的。無可否認，多戶型住宅領域的基本面十分強勁。2024 年創紀錄的新增供應量很大一部分已被吸收，全國大多數市場的租金都出現了成長。

Dry powder with both investors and lenders is abundant and poised for deployment. And finally, there is general acceptance of higher-for-longer among our clients. So we expect the market to grow in 2025, but remain choppy from quarter to quarter with the first quarter inevitably slowing down compared to the fourth quarter.

投資者和貸款方的資金都很充足，隨時可以部署。最後，我們的客戶普遍接受更長時間的更高服務。因此，我們預計市場將在 2025 年實現成長，但各季度之間的成長仍將不穩定，第一季的成長不可避免地會比第四季放緩。

Whatever shape the recovery takes, we expect the primary driver of our growth in 2025 to be a further rebound in transaction activity and with that, we will see growth in our cash origination fees from transaction volumes, but also our non-cash MSR earnings from higher agency lending volumes. We also expect our interest earnings on our corporate cash and escrow deposits to decrease in 2025, as those revenues are tied to short-term rates that have already been lowered by the Fed.

無論復甦情況如何，我們預計 2025 年成長的主要動力將是交易活動的進一步反彈，隨之而來的是，我們將看到交易量帶來的現金發起費成長，以及機構貸款量增加帶來的非現金 MSR 收益成長。我們也預計，2025 年公司現金和託管存款的利息收入將會減少，因為這些收入與聯準會已經降低的短期利率掛鉤。

Consequently, growth in diluted earnings per share will outpace growth in adjusted EBITDA and adjusted core EPS as our revenue mix shifts towards the Capital Markets segment and away from the SAM segment.

因此，隨著我們的收入結構轉移到資本市場部門、遠離 SAM 部門，稀釋每股盈餘的成長將超過調整後 EBITDA 和調整後核心每股盈餘的成長。

As a result, as shown on slide 10, our full year guidance for diluted earnings per share is growth in the high single digits to double digits in 2025, while growth in adjusted EBITDA and adjusted core EPS will be flat to up in the high single digits, which would again demonstrate the stability of our cash generation after just reporting a record year for adjusted EBITDA.

因此，如幻燈片 10 所示，我們對 2025 年全年攤薄每股收益的預期是增長高個位數至兩位數，而調整後的 EBITDA 和調整後的核心 EPS 的增長將持平至高個位數，這將再次證明我們在剛剛報告調整後 EBITDA 創紀錄的一年後現金創造能力的穩定性。

Our team worked tirelessly in 2024 to meet our clients' needs and deliver solid financial results to our shareholders, and I am confident that we will build on that momentum in 2025.

我們的團隊在 2024 年不懈努力，以滿足客戶的需求並為股東帶來穩健的財務業績，我相信我們將在 2025 年繼續保持這一勢頭。

Thank you for your time today. I will now turn the call back over to Willy.

感謝您今天抽出時間。我現在將電話轉回給威利。

Thank you, Greg. As Greg just explained, our business model, teamwork, and market presence allowed us to grow and deliver strong financial results in a challenging market in 2024. As we embark on 2025, we are both excited and yet somewhat cautious in our analysis and predictions for the coming year.

謝謝你，格雷格。正如格雷格剛才解釋的那樣，我們的商業模式、團隊合作和市場影響力使我們在 2024 年充滿挑戰的市場中實現了成長並取得了強勁的財務業績。當我們踏入2025年時，我們對來年的分析和預測既感到興奮，又有些謹慎。

And while we will try to give as much color and insight into what we are seeing in the market today, we are also conscious of two facts: that for all of our best planning and prognosticating, the market will move in unpredictable ways; and second, regardless of what that future brings, we have the team and business model to continue competing and delivering exceptional shareholder returns going forward.

雖然我們會盡可能詳細地描述和洞察當今市場的情況，但我們也意​​識到兩個事實：儘管我們做出了最好的規劃和預測，但市場仍會以不可預測的方式變動；其次，無論未來如何，我們都有團隊和商業模式來繼續競爭，並在未來為股東帶來卓越的回報。

It is our base case assumption that transaction volumes, debt financing, equity placement, investment sales, appraisals, research, tax credit syndication etcetera, all grow in 2025 after 2.5 years of muted activity. There is almost $1 trillion of commercial real estate debt that matures in 2025, yet how much of that number gets refinanced versus extended into 2026, is going to be a major factor on whether we see big growth or modest growth in debt financing volumes this year.

我們的基本假設是，在經歷 2.5 年的低迷之後，交易量、債務融資、股權配售、投資銷售、評估、研究、稅收抵免銀團等將在 2025 年全部實現增長。2025 年到期的商業房地產債務將接近 1 兆美元，但其中有多少將進行再融資或延長至 2026 年，將成為決定今年債務融資量是大幅增長還是小幅增長的主要因素。

The Mortgage Bankers Association published their commercial real estate financing volume forecast this morning, projecting growth of 16% in 2025, and 22% in 2026. There is an enormous amount of equity capital looking to be deployed into the commercial real estate industry, yet currently, there is a bid-ask spread between sellers and buyers that is constraining deal activity.

抵押貸款銀行家協會今早發布了商業房地產融資量預測，預計 2025 年將增長 16%，2026 年增長 22%。大量的股本資本預計將投入商業房地產行業，但目前賣家和買家之間的買賣價差限制了交易活動。

Interest rates have settled in around 4.5%, yet even with the general acceptance of higher for longer, some commercial real estate owners and developers seem to still hold out hope that rates will come down, causing them to delay refinancings and acquisitions.

利率已穩定在 4.5% 左右，但即使人們普遍接受長期維持高利率，一些商業房地產業主和開發商似乎仍希望利率下降，這導致他們推遲了再融資和收購。

So where we find ourselves today is with an extremely exciting macro backdrop of commercial real estate being one of the few global asset classes that isn't at peak or overvalue, stabilized interest rates, a need for investors to sell, buy, or refinance, simply due to the maturity of their funds or asset level financings, and yet caution due to higher interest rates, lower values, and a macro economy that feels wildly unpredictable.

因此，我們今天所處的宏觀背景極其令人興奮：商業房地產是少數未達到峰值或估值過高的全球資產類別之一，利率穩定，投資者需要出售、買入或再融資，僅僅是因為他們的資金或資產水平融資已經成熟，然而由於利率上升、價值下降以及宏觀經濟感覺極難預測，投資者仍保持謹慎。

The macro drivers in commercial real estate are so big and so real, that they will drive the market dramatically. The question right now is when. The W&D platform is extremely well positioned to meet the market needs today and over the next several years. Our debt, equity, and sales capabilities go head to head with the world's largest and most sophisticated lenders and service organizations and wins consistently.

商業房地產的宏觀驅動因素如此之大、如此真實，它們將極大地推動市場。現在的問題是何時。W&D 平台非常適合滿足當前和未來幾年的市場需求。我們的債務、股權和銷售能力與世界上最大、最成熟的貸款機構和服務機構相媲美並持續獲勝。

We win because of the talents of our bankers and brokers, the technology systems, and procedures we use to process transactions, the customer service we deliver on every transaction, the brand we have built, and the unique corporate culture that drives W&D every day.

我們之所以成功，是因為我們擁有優秀的銀行家和經紀人，我們處理交易的技術系統和程序，我們在每筆交易中提供的客戶服務，我們打造的品牌，以及推動 W&D 日常發展的獨特的企業文化。

As W&D has grown and evolved from a small family-owned firm into one of the largest commercial real estate finance and services companies in the world, it is important to keep in mind how we have evolved and where that evolution positions us today. We started as a local firm, then went regional, then went national, and are now embarking internationally. We began as a brokerage firm taking no principal risk on loans and have expanded into taking risk on debt, then equity, and now properties.

隨著 W&D 從小型家族企業成長為全球最大的商業房地產金融和服務公司之一，我們有必要牢記我們是如何發展的，以及這種發展對我們今天的定位。我們最初是一家本地公司，然後拓展到地區性公司、全國性公司，現在正邁向國際化。我們最初是一家不承擔貸款本金風險的經紀公司，後來擴展到承擔債務風險，然後是股權風險，現在是房地產風險。

We began selling one product, debt, to our customers and now sell debt, equity, hard assets, research, investment banking, asset management, and appraisals. And throughout the evolution of W&D's scale and product offering, the market placed huge value on those who control capital: developers and owners who have brought institutional capital to the market.

我們開始向客戶銷售一種產品—債務，現在則是銷售債務、股權、硬資產、研究、投資銀行、資產管理和評估。在 W&D 規模和產品供應的整個演變過程中，市場非常重視控制資本的人：將機構資本帶入市場的開發商和業主。

Over the past 15 years, the growth and expansion of private equity and credit in The United States has been astounding. And while there are many players in both the private equity and private credit markets, the mega private equity firms are raising capital and expanding their platforms far faster than the competition. And while they have seemingly won the capital aggregation battle, they are now faced with a capital deployment challenge: where and how they can invest vast sums of capital to meet their investors' needs.

過去15年，美國私募股權和信貸的成長和擴張令人震驚。雖然私募股權和私募信貸市場都有許多參與者，但大型私募股權公司籌集資金和擴張平台的速度遠遠快於競爭對手。儘管他們似乎贏得了資本聚集戰，但他們現在面臨資本配置的挑戰：在哪裡以及如何投資巨額資本以滿足投資者的需求。

What we have built at Walker & Dunlop is a scaled capital deployment platform. We take tens of billions of dollars every year and deploy it into the commercial real estate through our work valuing, selling, and financing properties.

我們在 Walker & Dunlop 建立的是一個規模化的資本部署平台。我們每年投入數百億美元，透過評估、銷售和融資等工作將其投入商業房地產。

So the challenge and huge opportunity for W&D is how we leverage our client relationships, valuation capabilities, and transaction expertise to continue generating alpha for our investors, partners, and clients. We must continue partnering with the world's largest capital providers to feed them investment opportunities and deploy the capital they have so successfully raised.

因此，W&D 面臨的挑戰和巨大機會在於如何利用我們的客戶關係、估值能力和交易專業知識來繼續為我們的投資者、合作夥伴和客戶創造阿爾法收益。我們必須繼續與世界上最大的資本提供者合作，為他們提供投資機會並部署他們成功籌集的資本。

We recently announced the expansion of our capital markets business in three significant ways: first, in Q4, we announced the expansion of our investment sales capabilities into the hospitality sector. We hired a terrific team and are already seeing great connectivity between our hospitality sales and financing teams.

我們最近宣布了透過三種重要方式擴展我們的資本市場業務：首先，在第四季度，我們宣布將我們的投資銷售能力擴展到酒店業。我們聘請了一支出色的團隊，並且已經看到我們的飯店銷售和融資團隊之間的良好連結性。

Second, in January, we hired an exceptional affordable housing team with deep affordable housing client relationships and expertise. As we continue to build out our affordable platform that now includes financing, sales, equity, and tax credit syndication, we expect our affordable transaction volumes and our brand in this important area of the multifamily market to benefit greatly.

第二，一月份，我們聘請了一支優秀的經濟適用房團隊，該團隊擁有深厚的經濟適用房客戶關係和專業知識。隨著我們繼續建立現在包括融資、銷售、股權和稅收抵免聯合在內的經濟實惠的平台，我們預計我們經濟實惠的交易量和我們在多戶型市場這一重要領域的品牌將受益匪淺。

And finally, last week, we announced our expansion into Europe with the hiring of a very talented London-based finance team. This move into Europe is very exciting for several reasons. First, after growing WMD to be one of the largest commercial real estate financial services companies in The United States, we have the scale and client base to expand beyond our borders.

最後，上週，我們宣布將業務拓展到歐洲，並聘請了一支非常有才華的倫敦財務團隊。進軍歐洲的舉動令人興奮，原因有幾個。首先，在將 WMD 發展成為美國最大的商業房地產金融服務公司之一後，我們擁有了拓展海外業務的規模和客戶群。

Second, while Europe is currently under a tremendous amount of pressure due to limited growth and technological advancement, The European commercial real estate market is vast and presents a huge opportunity for continued W & D growth.

其次，雖然歐洲目前由於成長和技術進步有限而承受著巨大的壓力，但歐洲商業房地產市場規模龐大，為 W&D 的持續成長提供了巨大的機會。

Third, as the US economy continues to attract foreign capital, having connectivity in the European, Middle Eastern, and Asian investors is exceedingly important. Walker & Dunlop's London office will be both the hub of our European operations and a bridge to the Middle East and Asia as we both work for clients in those geographies and shepherd their investment dollars into The US market.

第三，隨著美國經濟持續吸引外資，與歐洲、中東和亞洲投資者建立聯繫極為重要。Walker & Dunlop 的倫敦辦事處將成為我們歐洲業務的樞紐，也是通往中東和亞洲的橋樑，因為我們既為這些地區的客戶服務，又將他們的投資資金引入美國市場。

Investors should expect further investment by W&D to broaden our offerings across all commercial real estate asset classes and expansion abroad first in Europe, and then in other geographies. We are now in the last year of our five-year growth plan called the Drive to '25, which includes growing our debt and property sales volumes, scaling our servicing and asset management businesses, and establishing our newer businesses of small balance lending, appraisals, and investment banking.

投資者應該期待 W&D 的進一步投資，以擴大我們在所有商業房地產資產類別中的產品範圍，並首先在歐洲進行海外擴張，然後再到其他地區。我們目前正處於「邁向25年」五年成長計畫的最後一年，該計畫包括增加我們的債務和房地產銷售量、擴大我們的服務和資產管理業務，以及建立我們的小額貸款、評估和投資銀行等新業務。

As we said on this call last year, the great tightening and subsequent market disruption set us off course from achieving the Drive to '25 volume and financial targets. Our W & D's durable income streams from servicing and asset management allowed us to continue investing in our people and strategy of scaling our existing businesses and adding new innovative technology-focused businesses.

正如我們去年在電話會議上所說的那樣，嚴格的緊縮政策和隨之而來的市場混亂使我們偏離了實現『25』計畫的銷售和財務目標。我們 W & D 來自服務和資產管理的持久收入來源使我們能夠繼續投資於我們的人才和擴大現有業務並增加新的創新技術為重點的業務的策略。

We are now beginning to formulate our next five-year bold, highly ambitious business plan that we will outline a year from now. For now, we remain focused on achieving as much of the drive to '25 as possible as we know it is the right long-term strategic direction for our business. I would like to sincerely thank every member of the Walker & Dunlop team who worked so hard in 2024 to meet our clients' needs and generate strong financial results in a challenging market.

我們現在開始製定下一個五年大膽、雄心勃勃的商業計劃，我們將在一年後概述該計劃。目前，我們仍專注於盡可能實現『25』目標，因為我們知道這是我們業務的正確長期策略方向。我要衷心感謝 Walker & Dunlop 團隊的每一位成員，他們在 2024 年辛勤工作，滿足了客戶的需求，並在充滿挑戰的市場中創造了強勁的財務表現。

And I'd like to thank our shareholders who continue to believe in our long-term vision for this company. That ends our prepared remarks for this morning, and I'd like to now ask the operator to open the line for questions.

我還要感謝我們的股東，他們一直相信我們對公司的長期願景。今天早上我們準備好的演講到此結束，現在我想請接線生開立問答專線。

(Operator Instructions) Jade Rahmani, KBW.

(操作員指示) Jade Rahmani，KBW。

Thank you very much. A strategic question would be, do you see opportunities to more formally align with an alternative asset manager and their insurance subsidiaries perhaps through joint venture or partnership to help drive their asset needs and increase fee revenue for WD?

非常感謝。一個策略性問題是，您是否看到有機會透過合資或合作的方式與另類資產管理公司及其保險子公司更正式地結盟，以幫助推動他們的資產需求並增加 WD 的費用收入？

Good morning, Jade. Thanks for joining us. Sure. There are plenty of firms that we have partnered with in the past and work with every single day. And as you know, we have been scaling our asset management business over the past several years and feel very confident we can continue to do that on our own. But partnership is always a potential.

早安，傑德。感謝您的加入。當然。我們過去曾與許多公司合作過，並且每天都在與他們合作。如您所知，過去幾年我們一直在擴大我們的資產管理業務，我們非常有信心我們可以繼續獨自做到這一點。但合作關係始終是潛在的。

And the low-income housing tax credit syndication business, WD Affordable Housing, can you give an update on the outlook for that overall business away from the WDAP exit? Just want to see your thoughts of the core, what was Alliant, their business, and how you're viewing the outlook there?

對於低收入住房稅收抵免聯合企業 WD Affordable Housing，您能否介紹一下退出 WDAP 後該企業整體業務的前景？只是想了解您對核心的看法，Alliant 是什麼，他們的業務是什麼，以及您如何看待那裡的前景？

Sure, David. We made some management changes at the end of Q3 that we've been very pleased with, and seeing the team react to, which has all of us having great confidence in the continued growth of that business. And I would say that there's plenty of talk in Washington right now as it relates to low-income housing tax credits and their importance to the affordable housing industry.

當然，大衛。我們在第三季末進行了一些管理變革，我們對此感到非常滿意，並且看到了團隊的反應，這讓我們所有人都對該業務的持續成長充滿信心。我想說的是，現在華盛頓有很多關於低收入住房稅收抵免及其對經濟適用住房行業的重要性的討論。

And so either the maintaining or expansion of the LITHC budget allocation would be important to the continued growth of that business. And as I mentioned in my comments, we brought across an extremely capable affordable housing team that has an incredible track record in the market.

因此，維持或擴大 LITHC 預算分配對於該業務的持續成長至關重要。正如我在評論中提到的那樣，我們找到了一支非常有能力的經濟適用房團隊，該團隊在市場上擁有令人難以置信的業績記錄。

And so adding that team to our existing team and the continued integration of the Alliant business into Walker & Dunlop all has us feeling very good about our affordable strategy and the team we put together.

因此，將該團隊添加到我們現有的團隊中，並將 Alliant 業務繼續整合到 Walker & Dunlop，都讓我們對我們的經濟實惠的策略和我們組建的團隊感到非常滿意。

(Operator Instructions) Steve Delaney, Citizens JMP.

（操作員指示）史蒂夫·德萊尼（Steve Delaney），公民 JMP。

Good morning and congratulations on a strong close to 2024 and another dividend hike. Willy, the Fannie Mae and brokered businesses obviously jump off the page standing out in the fourth quarter as the big drivers.

早安，恭喜您在 2024 年取得強勁收官並再次提高股息。威利、房利美和經紀業務顯然在第四季度脫穎而出，成為主要推動力。

On the Fannie business, was it one or two mega deals in there or are you just seeing Fannie being broadly more aggressive in its pricing relative to Freddie Mac? But why so much about concentration in Fannie, I guess is the question. Thank you.

關於房利美業務，其中是否有一兩筆大型交易，還是您只是看到房利美在定價方面相對於房地美更為激進？但我想，問題在於為什麼房利美如此重視集中。謝謝。

Sure, Steve, and good morning and thanks for joining us. It was standard deal flow. So it was not a single large transaction or from my recollection, quite honestly, anything of any real scale. So it was very good flow business. I will tell you that the average servicing fee, although we don't disclose the average servicing fee, was actually down in the quarter, which would be somewhat counterintuitive, given that it was a very large volume of flow business.

當然，史蒂夫，早安，感謝您加入我們。這是標準的交易流程。所以，這並不是一筆大型交易，或者說，坦白說，就我的記憶而言，這並不是什麼具有實際規模的交易。因此這是非常好的流動業務。我會告訴你，儘管我們沒有披露平均服務費，但本季平均服務費實際上是下降的，這有點違反直覺，因為這是一個非常大的流量業務量。

Typically, you would have reduced servicing fees on having done a number of large transactions. But as we have seen in the past, when rates move up, guarantee fees and servicing fees get squeezed. So it's not that surprising that in the quarter where we were trying to make deals work, that servicing fees were under pressure. We had seen servicing fees start to return to normal earlier in the year on very depressed volumes. So to be perfectly direct about it, we'll take higher volumes and a little bit lower servicing fees any day.

通常，完成多筆大筆交易後，服務費就會減少。但正如我們過去看到的那樣，當利率上升時，擔保費和服務費就會受到擠壓。因此，在我們試圖達成交易的那個季度，服務費面臨壓力，這並不奇怪。今年早些時候，我們看到服務費在交易量非常低迷的情況下開始恢復正常。因此，坦白說，我們隨時都會提高銷量，並稍微降低服務費。

But that was the dynamic in Q4 as it relates to our Fannie business. I think the other piece to it is that both agencies, Steve, in the back half of the year, looked at where they were in the first half of the year and said we got to get back into the market. Fortunately, both of them came back in. And as you know, Freddie Mac finished the year doing close to $65 billion on a $70 billion cap. Fannie Mae only did $55 billion on a $70 billion cap.

但這是第四季的動態，因為它與我們的房利美業務有關。我認為另一個原因是，史蒂夫，這兩家代理商在下半年回顧了上半年的情況，並表示我們必須重返市場。幸好，兩人都回來了。如你所知，房地美今年的獲利接近 650 億美元，上限為 700 億美元。在 700 億美元的上限中，房利美僅兌現了 550 億美元。

Fortunately, the regulator raised their caps for 2025 from $70 billion to $73 billion each. And so, they both have plenty of opportunity in 2025 to increase origination volumes.

幸運的是，監管機構將2025年的上限從700億美元提高到了730億美元。因此，到 2025 年，他們都有足夠的機會增加發動量。

Willy, with all you've done in the last couple of years in terms of capabilities and bringing teams in, would you say that as you sit today, the business -- the WD business model is now essentially complete or are there other important capabilities that you'd like to add on that you don't have today?

Willy，鑑於您在過去幾年中在能力提升和團隊引入方面所做的一切，您是否認為就目前情況而言，WD 業務模式已基本完善，還是還有其他您目前尚不具備的重要能力想要添加？

You're making me feel old, Steve, in asking that question, because you and I have been on these calls for a very long period of time.

史蒂夫，你問這個問題讓我感覺自己老了，因為你和我已經接聽這些電話很久了。

I am old enough (multiple speakers)

我已經夠老了（多位發言者）

Yeah, no, not at all. You're good. I think you know me and you know this firm well enough to know that we're never satisfied, we're never standing still and saying we've done it. Look, the competitive landscape that we compete in every day has evolved dramatically just in the last 14 years as Walker & Dunlop has been a publicly traded company.

是的，一點也不。你很厲害。我想你們對我以及這家公司足夠了解，知道我們永遠不會滿足，我們永遠不會止步於現狀並說我們已經做到了。你看，自從 Walker & Dunlop 成為一家上市公司以來，我們每天競爭的競爭格局在過去的 14 年裡發生了巨大的變化。

And as I tried to outline in the call in my prepared remarks, the breadth and scale of the enterprise that we have created over that period of time has allowed us to remain extremely competitive against some of the world's largest financial services and real estate services companies.

正如我在電話會議中準備好的發言中試圖概述的那樣，我們在這段時間內創建的企業的廣度和規模使我們能夠在與世界上一些最大的金融服務和房地產服務公司的競爭中保持極強的競爭力。

And so while we feel extremely well positioned today, we are by no means complete. The service offerings that the scaled commercial real estate services firms offer and the brands they carry are a huge competitive force every single day. The balance sheets and financial wherewithal of the large banks and financial services institutions that we compete with are a huge competitive factor every single day.

因此，儘管我們今天感覺自己處於非常有利的位置，但我們還遠遠沒有達到目標。規模化商業房地產服務公司所提供的服務以及其所擁有的品牌每天都會產生巨大的競爭力量。我們與之競爭的大型銀行和金融服務機構的資產負債表和財務實力每天都是一個巨大的競爭因素。

And so I think that what we have been able to do is stay very focused on the parts of the market where we compete, make sure that we have the very, very best team and customer service that we can put forward. And as I said, we win.

因此我認為我們能夠做的就是高度集中在我們競爭的市場部分，確保我們擁有最好的團隊和客戶服務。正如我所說，我們贏了。

But that comes from that focus. It comes from the team. And it certainly, W&D has never been a macro play. Many of the companies we compete against are macro plays. They're big. If the market is moving positive, they move positively. If the market goes down, they move down. We have tried to be somewhat of the yin and the yang or the zigging when others zag. I will say our total shareholder return in 2024 was disappointing. We lagged in 2024 versus the competition.

但這源自於這種關注。它來自於團隊。可以肯定的是，W&D 從來都不是一個宏觀遊戲。我們競爭的許多公司都是宏觀公司。它們很大。如果市場走勢積極，他們也會採取積極行動。如果市場下跌，它們也會下跌。我們試圖成為陰與陽，或在別人走彎路時我們走之字形。我想說的是，我們 2024 年的總股東回報令人失望。2024 年我們落後競爭對手。

And our investors have my commitment and our team's commitment to continue to focus, compete, and outperform going forward. And that's due to the investments we've made and the positioning of the firm today.

我和我們的團隊都承諾，我們的投資者將繼續專注、競爭並在未來取得卓越表現。這是因為我們所做的投資和公司目前的定位。

Jay McCandless, Wedbush.

傑伊麥坎德利斯，韋德布希。

Hey, good morning everyone. So I just wanted to touch on the comment you made in prepared remarks about clients accepting the higher rates and looking to still do deals. Is probably a loaded question. But is extend and pretend done? Because I know you talked about it in your comments, Willy, but if clients really are having to deal with higher rates, are we finally going to see some assets and especially some problem assets get worked out and turned over this year?

嘿，大家早安。因此，我只想談談您在準備好的評論中提到的關於客戶接受更高的利率並希望繼續達成交易的評論。這可能是個引導性問題。但延伸和假裝完成了嗎？因為我知道你在評論中談到了這一點，威利，但如果客戶真的不得不面對更高的利率，我們最終是否會看到一些資產，特別是一些問題資產在今年得到解決和移交？

Jay, your question is a very good one. It's a hard one to give a broad general response to. What we are seeing is that many borrowers who have floating rate debt on an asset would like to swap that debt into a fixed rate loan, but in many instances, cannot, because it would require a cash in refinancing. And so what we find ourselves confronted with daily is clients of Walker & Dunlop saying, I'd like to refinance this existing financing. It's either turning or I just don't like the overall floating interest rate on it.

傑伊，你的問題非常好。很難對此做出廣泛的一般性回應。我們看到，許多擁有浮動利率資產債務的借款人希望將該債務轉換為固定利率貸款，但在許多情況下無法實現，因為這需要現金再融資。因此，我們每天面臨的情況是 Walker & Dunlop 的客戶說，我想為這筆現有融資進行再融資。它要么正在轉變，要么就是我只是不喜歡它的整體浮動利率。

We go to underwrite a fixed rate loan and find that to be able to do a fixed rate loan and bring down the effective cost of borrowing, it's going to require a recapitalization from the equity side. The client will say, I don't want to go back to my LPs and ask for a capital call on this asset. And they will either stick with the existing financing or they will put the property up for sale if they happen to have a realized gain on the value of the asset. We saw a lot of that at the end of 2024, and we're seeing that continue into 2025.

我們去承銷固定利率貸款，並發現為了能夠進行固定利率貸款並降低實際借貸成本，就需要從股權方面進行資本重組。客戶會說，我不想回到我的 LP 並要求對該資產進行資本追加。他們要么堅持現有的融資，要么如果他們碰巧在資產價值上實現了收益，他們就會把房產出售。我們在 2024 年底看到了許多這樣的情況，我們看到這種情況將持續到 2025 年。

To your specific question as it relates to does that then cause distress in the markets, you cannot look at the amount of both equity capital and debt capital that is out in the market today and say that distressed opportunities don't have the opportunity to be worked out. That may result in certain investors, certain owners taking a loss on the property.

對於你提出的具體問題，即這是否會導致市場陷入困境，你不能只看目前市場上的股本和債務資本的數量，就說困境中的投資機會沒有機會得到解決。這可能會導致某些投資者、某些業主在房產上蒙受損失。

But what that doesn't allow for is any broad scale distress as it relates to overall market movement. So what I would think will happen quite a bit in '25 is that the clock will run out on certain either fund life or asset level financings and the ability to extend into the future won't present itself. As I said in my prepared remarks, how much of the outstanding maturities actually get called in '25 versus extended into the future will make a difference between whether this is an enormous debt refinancing market or whether it is a moderate debt refinancing market as I put forth in the Mortgage Bankers Association predictions for 2025.

但這不允許出現與整體市場走勢相關的任何大規模困境。因此，我認為 25 年將會發生相當多的情況，即某些基金壽命或資產水準融資將會耗盡，並且延續到未來的能力也將不復存在。正如我在準備好的發言中所說的那樣，有多少未償還債務在 25 年內被實際償還，有多少被延長到未來，將決定這是一個巨大的債務再融資市場還是一個溫和的債務再融資市場，正如我在抵押貸款銀行家協會對 2025 年的預測中提出的那樣。

I think the most important thing from a Walker & Dunlop standpoint is to make sure that we are there with our clients to help them work through any of these situations, whether that means they just want to do a straight out refinancing, whether they have to do a cash in refinancing, whether they want to sell the asset, or whether they want to bring in new partners to reequify the asset.

我認為從 Walker & Dunlop 的角度來看，最重要的是確保我們與客戶在一起，幫助他們解決任何情況，無論這意味著他們只是想直接進行再融資，還是他們必須進行現金再融資，無論他們想出售資產，還是他們想引入新的合作夥伴來重新資產化。

Thank you for that, Willy. The second question I had, last call you talked about the possible timeline for the GSEs coming out maybe like 2026, 2027. Any updates to your thoughts on that process?

謝謝你，威利。我的第二個問題是，上次您談到了政府支持企業 (GSE) 可能的上市時間表，可能是 2026 年、2027 年。您對於該過程的想法有什麼更新嗎？

Yeah, for a second. Look, the new HUD secretary mentioned last week that the privatization of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should be on the radar screen and focused on. President Trump has mentioned the same during the campaign. To my knowledge, he has not mentioned it subsequent to his inauguration. And the Treasury Secretary was asked during his confirmation hearings about the privatization of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. So the topic is clearly on the table.

是的，就一會兒。你看，新任住房和城市發展部長上週提到，房利美和房地美的私有化應該受到關注和重點。川普總統在競選期間也提到了同樣的事情。據我所知，他在就職後沒有再提及此事。財政部長在其任命聽證會上被問及房利美和房地美私有化的問題。因此這個話題顯然已經擺在桌面上了。

The real question will be, is it an issue they focus on in 2025 as a potential offset to the tax bill and either continuation of the tax cuts and jobs act or new tax cuts that President Trump would like to have implemented and using the privatization of Fannie and Freddie as an offset to those tax cuts.

真正的問題是，這是他們在 2025 年關注的重點問題，作為稅收法案的潛在抵消，是繼續執行減稅和就業法案，還是實施川普總統希望實施的新減稅措施，並使用房利美和房地美的私有化作為這些減稅措施的抵消。

If it stays related to the tax bill, it probably gets on the fast track and gets very focused on in 2025. And that would be both very interesting and exciting because were it tied to the tax bill, there would be a lot of political will behind getting it done.

如果它與稅收法案保持相關，它可能會進入快車道並在 2025 年受到高度關注。這會非常有趣而且令人興奮，因為如果它與稅收法案掛鉤，那麼就會有很多政治意願去完成它。

If it misses the '25 window and being related to paired with the tax bill, it turns back to the old debate as it relates to Fannie and Freddie were taken into conservatorship, should they stay in the federal government, should they be spun back out, How are they spun back out? What are their footprints when they get spun back out?

如果它錯過了 25 個窗口期，並且與稅收法案有關，那麼它就會回到舊的爭論，因為它涉及到房利美和房地美被接管，他們是否應該留在聯邦政府，他們是否應該被分拆出來，他們是如何被分拆出來的？當他們再次旋轉時，他們的足跡是什麼？

Is it an explicit guarantee? Is it an implicit guarantee? Does it go administrative action? Does it go legislative action etcetera. And so were it to miss the window on the Tax Bill, I would lower my odds that something actually gets done with Fannie and Freddie just because we've seen this happen before. You're into the mid-term elections in 2026, and it's a very complicated, difficult issue to get either consensus on Capitol Hill or the political will inside of the West Wing to get something like that done.

這是明確的保證嗎？這是隱性擔保嗎？這是否屬於行政行為？它是否採取立法行動等等。因此，如果錯過了稅收法案的機會，我會降低與房利美和房地美真正達成協議的可能性，因為我們以前見過這種情況。2026 年將迎來中期選舉，無論是在國會山莊達成共識，還是在白宮內部達成政治意願，這都是一個十分複雜而困難的問題。

But if it stays on the radar screen for 2025, in conjunction with the Tax Bill, I think it could be very exciting and very interesting to see how it evolves.

但如果它在 2025 年繼續受到關注，與稅收法案一起，我認為看看它如何發展可能會非常令人興奮且非常有趣。

All right. Thank you for that, Willy. One more for me. Excited to hear you guys are expanding into hospitality. Maybe give us a thumbnail of how you're thinking about that market and especially with what at one point was some overcapacity there? Would love to get your thoughts on that one. And thank you for taking all my questions.

好的。謝謝你，威利。對我來說再多一個。很高興聽到你們正在向酒店業擴展業務。您能簡單介紹一下您對該市場的看法嗎，尤其是那裡一度出現的產能過剩現象？很想聽聽你對此的看法。感謝您回答我的所有問題。

Sure, Jay. Look, what we have seen in our multifamily business is that we were one of the largest multifamily lenders in The United States. And back in 2015, we decided to move in to multifamily investment sales.

當然，傑伊。你看，我們在多戶型業務中看到的是，我們是美國最大的多戶型貸款機構之一。2015年，我們決定進軍多戶型投資銷售領域。

And with the acquisition of Englert Financial and under the great leadership of Chris Mickelson, we have seen that firm come into Walker & Dunlop and expand tremendously and be an incredible -- both standalone business, a business that has enhanced our relationship with multifamily owner operators and developers tremendously, and also allowed for the tying of investment sales and the financing on a scale that we quite honestly never projected.

隨著對 Englert Financial 的收購，在 Chris Mickelson 的卓越領導下，我們看到該公司加入 Walker & Dunlop，並得到了極大的擴張，成為一家令人難以置信的獨立企業，這項業務極大地增強了我們與多戶型業主運營商和開發商的關係，同時也允許將投資銷售和融資結合起來，其規模是我們從未預測過的。

We have a much, much higher rate of tying our financing to the investment sale than we ever projected when we entered this business to start with. So what we have -- and one of the other things for people to remember in all of that is the following: If you look at the agency lead tables, Fannie and Freddie; a decade ago, their lead tables had a number of large banks at the top of the lead tables because they were big partners to the agencies and they did a lot of multifamily financing.

我們將融資與投資銷售掛鉤的比率比我們剛進入這個行業時所預期的要高得多。所以，我們所擁有的——以及人們需要記住的另一件事是：如果你看一下機構領先表，房利美和房地美；十年前，他們的主導表頂部有許多大型銀行，因為它們是這些機構的重要合作夥伴，並且進行了大量多戶型融資。

You look at the lead tables today and the tops of the lead tables are only filled with broad financial real estate services firms such as Walker & Dunlop, such as CBRE that have the combination of investment sales tied in with financing. And so that's been the competitive landscape today where you can go to the client and provide them with one-stop shopping, if you will. And so as a result of that, we look at that example in multifamily and we say we need to do that in hospitality.

看看今天的領先榜，領先榜的榜首僅由 Walker & Dunlop 和 CBRE 等提供廣泛金融房地產服務的公司佔據，這些公司將投資銷售與融資結合在一起。這就是今天的競爭格局，如果你願意的話，你可以去找客戶並為他們提供一站式購物。因此，我們在多戶住宅中看到了這個例子，並認為我們需要在酒店業中也這樣做。

We need to do that in retail. So bringing on the hospitality investment sales team in Q4 was a very significant move for us to move to another vertical. Interestingly, Jay, there are a very large number of investors in multifamily who also happen to be investors in hospitality.

我們需要在零售業中做到這一點。因此，在第四季度引入酒店投資銷售團隊對於我們進軍另一個垂直領域來說是一個非常重要的舉措。有趣的是，傑伊，有很多多戶型住宅的投資者恰好也是旅館業的投資者。

And so if you look at the existing client relationships that Walker & Dunlop has from a multifamily, both investment sales and financing standpoint, many of them also had been borrowers of Walker and Dunlop on the hospitality side and now we've just added in the investment sales capability in the hospitality market.

因此，如果您從多戶型、投資銷售和融資的角度來看待 Walker & Dunlop 現有的客戶關係，他們中的許多人也曾是 Walker 和 Dunlop 在酒店業的借款人，而現在我們剛剛增加了酒店市場的投資銷售能力。

As it relates to the underlying macro fundamentals of hospitality, as you well know, leisure hospitality has been an extremely strong asset class post pandemic. Urban hospitality, not so much. Clearly, there are certain urban assets that have done exceedingly well, but there are also some urban centers, I can just poke at San Francisco for a moment, that have a lot of distressed core hospitality assets that have very much struggled since the pandemic due to few people coming back to work and few people traveling to those major urban centers.

就其與酒店業的宏觀基本面而言，眾所周知，休閒酒店業在疫情後一直是一種極為強勁的資產類別。城市裡的熱情好客卻並非如此。顯然，某些城市資產表現非常出色，但也有一些城市中心，我只想拿舊金山來說一下，那裡有很多陷入困境的核心酒店資產，自疫情爆發以來，由於很少有人回來工作，也很少有人前往這些主要城市中心，這些資產陷入了困境。

So look, there's a huge opportunity in that market for Walker & Dunlop to grow and we feel like we have hired a fantastic team to spearhead those efforts. And as I said in my prepared remarks, we will continue to add both to our hospitality investment sales capabilities as well as focus on adding investment sales capabilities into other commercial real estate asset classes.

所以，看起來，Walker＆Dunlop 在那個市場上有巨大的成長機會，我們覺得我們已經聘請了一支出色的團隊來帶頭進行這些工作。正如我在準備好的演講中所說，我們將繼續增強我們的酒店投資銷售能力，並專注於增加對其他商業房地產資產類別的投資銷售能力。

(Operator Instructions) Jade Rahmani, KBW.

(操作員指示) Jade Rahmani，KBW。

Thank you very much. I was wondering if you could give an update in terms of what you're seeing from Fannie Mae volumes so far this year. And also just looking at your historical mix between Fannie and Freddie, I think there could be a decent opportunity to grow Freddie a lot. Do you agree with that?

非常感謝。我想知道您是否可以介紹一下今年迄今為止房利美債務交易量的最新情況。另外，只要看一下房利美和房地美之間的歷史組合，我認為房地美可能有一個很大的發展機會。你同意這個嗎？

So, Jade, no. As you well know, we don't give mid-quarter volume guidance or what we're seeing. Generally speaking, both agencies have started the year in typical fashion, if you will, get done with the previous year and refocus on what's coming ahead and go to conferences in January to meet with partners and clients and then get back to work.

所以，Jade，不。眾所周知，我們不會提供中期季度銷售預測或我們所看到的情況。總體而言，這兩家公司都以典型的方式開始了新的一年，如果你願意的話，那就完成上一年的工作，重新關注未來，並在一月份參加會議，與合作夥伴和客戶會面，然後再回去工作。

So nothing to report on there as it relates to Fannie or Freddie or their outlook for 2025. And as it relates to Freddie Mac (technical difficulty) mentioned in our prepared remarks, we came in fourth with Freddie Mac in 2024. That was a very solid year for us. But as you know very well, we fell one ranking point in the rankings. We were very close to the number three Freddie Mac opt-to-go partner in 2024, but one of our other large competitors jumped ahead of us. That's disappointing. We're very focused on climbing back up in the lead tables.

因此，關於房利美或房地美或它們的 2025 年前景，沒有什麼可報道的。就我們準備好的評論中提到的房地美（技術難度）而言，我們在 2024 年與房地美一起位居第四。對我們來說那是非常充實的一年。但正如你們所知道的，我們的排名下降了一個名次。我們非常接近成為 2024 年房地美第三大可選合作夥伴，但我們的另一個大型競爭對手已經超越了我們。真令人失望。我們非常專注於重新奪回領先地位。

And to your point, there's a huge opportunity. As I mentioned previously, Freddie Mac did $10 billion more of multifamily lending in 2024 than Fannie Mae. And so as a result of that, we clearly would like to do more with Freddie Mac and we'd love to move not only back to where we were last year as number three, but higher on the Freddie Mac lead tables.

正如您所說，這是一個巨大的機會。正如我之前提到的，2024 年，房地美的多戶型貸款金額比房利美多 100 億美元。因此，我們顯然希望與房地美進行更多合作，我們不僅希望回到去年的第三名，而且希望在房地美領先榜上排名更高。

And so we have the team, we have the relationship with Freddie Mac, and we clearly have the client base to do just that. It's up to our team to go and do it.

因此，我們擁有團隊，與房地美建立了關係，而且我們顯然擁有客戶群來做到這一點。這取決於我們的團隊去做這件事。

And at this time, there are no additional callers in the queue. I'd like to turn the conference back over to your host, Mr. Walker, for any additional or closing remarks. Mr. Walker, please go ahead.

此時，隊列中沒有其他呼叫者。我想將會議交還給主持人沃克先生，請他發表任何補充意見或結束語。沃克先生，請說。

Thank you very much. As I said at the end of the call, I want to congratulate and thank the W&D team for all they did in 2024 to make it the success that it was. Thank you to Kelsey and Jenna from an IR standpoint for all your work in this earning season and thank you, Greg, for your prepared remarks and exceptional work at W&D. That concludes the call for today. And thank you, everyone, for joining us.

非常感謝。正如我在通話結束時所說的那樣，我要祝賀並感謝 W&D 團隊在 2024 年所做的一切，使其取得了成功。從 IR 的角度感謝 Kelsey 和 Jenna 在本收益季所做的所有工作，也感謝 Greg 為 W&D 所做的準備發言和出色工作。今天的通話到此結束。感謝大家的參與。

That does conclude today's teleconference. We thank you all for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝大家的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。