Walker & Dunlop Inc (WD) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the Q3 2025 Walker & Dunlop, Inc., earnings call. Today's conference is being recorded. At this time, I'd like to turn the conference over to Ms. Kelsey Duffey.

大家好，歡迎參加 Walker & Dunlop, Inc. 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。今天的會議正在錄影。此時，我想把會議交給凱爾西·達菲女士。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining Walker & Dunlop's third quarter 2025 earnings call. I have with me this morning our Chairman and CEO, Willy Walker; and our CFO, Greg Florkowski. This call is being webcast live on our website, and a recording will be available later today. Both our earnings press release and website provide details on accessing the archived webcast.

謝謝大家，大家早安。感謝您參加沃克鄧祿普公司2025年第三季財報電話會議。今天早上陪同我的還有我們的董事長兼執行長威利沃克，以及我們的財務長格雷格弗洛科夫斯基。本次電話會議正在我們的網站上進行現場直播，錄音將於今天晚些時候提供。我們的獲利新聞稿和網站都提供了存取存檔網路直播的詳細資訊。

This morning, we posted our earnings release and presentation to the Investor Relations section of our website, www.walkerdunlop.com. These slides serve as a reference point for some of what Willy and Greg will touch on during the call.

今天上午，我們已將獲利報告和簡報發佈到公司網站 www.walkerdunlop.com 的投資者關係頁面。這些投影片可作為 Willy 和 Greg 在電話會議中部分內容的參考資料。

Please also note that we will reference the non-GAAP financial metrics, adjusted EBITDA and adjusted core EPS during the course of this call. Please refer to the appendix of the earnings presentation for a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial metrics. Investors are urged to carefully read the forward-looking statements language in our earnings release.

另請注意，我們將在本次電話會議中提及非GAAP財務指標、調整後EBITDA和調整後核心每股盈餘。有關這些非GAAP財務指標的調節表，請參閱收益報告附錄。我們敦促投資者仔細閱讀獲利報告中的前瞻性陳述。

Statements made on this call, which are not historical facts may be deemed forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements describe our current expectations, and actual results may differ materially.

本次電話會議中所作出的非歷史事實的陳述，可能被視為 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》意義上的前瞻性陳述。前瞻性陳述描述的是我們目前的預期，實際結果可能與預期有重大差異。

Walker & Dunlop is under no obligation to update or alter our forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, and we expressly disclaim any obligation to do so. More detailed information about risk factors can be found in our annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC.

Walker & Dunlop 沒有義務更新或修改我們的前瞻性聲明，無論是由於新資訊、未來事件或其他原因，我們明確聲明不承擔任何此類義務。有關風險因素的更多詳細信息，請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的年度和季度報告。

I will now turn the call over to Willy.

現在我將把電話轉給威利。

Thank you, Kelsey, and good morning, everyone. Our third quarter financial results underscore an improving commercial real estate market and Walker & Dunlop's strong brand and market position. Pent-up demand for assets and a material increase in the supply of debt capital drove increased transaction volumes across our platform, generating $15.5 billion of total transaction volume on the quarter, up 34% year-over-year.

謝謝你，凱爾西，大家早安。我們第三季的財務表現凸顯了商業房地產市場的改善以及沃克鄧洛普強大的品牌和市場地位。資產需求積壓和債務資本供應大幅增加，推動了我們平台交易量的成長，本季總交易量達到 155 億美元，年增 34%。

Strong transaction activity across all capital markets executions, sales, debt financing, equity and structured finance, investment banking, research and appraisals led to third quarter revenues of $338 million and $0.98 of diluted earnings per share, up 16% and 15%, respectively, year-over-year.

資本市場所有執行、銷售、債務融資、股權和結構性融資、投資銀行、研究和評估等業務的強勁交易活動，使得第三季收入達到 3.38 億美元，稀釋後每股收益為 0.98 美元，分別年增 16% 和 15%。

Adjusted EBITDA grew 4% to $82 million and adjusted core EPS increased 3% to $1.22. With the 10-year sitting just above 4% and a strong forward pipeline, we expect a gradual increase in commercial real estate capital markets activity to continue forward.

調整後 EBITDA 成長 4% 至 8,200 萬美元，調整後核心每股盈餘成長 3% 至 1.22 美元。鑑於 10 年期平均成長率略高於 4%，且未來專案儲備強勁，我們預期商業房地產資本市場活動將持續逐步成長。

The 34% increase in total transaction volume to $15.5 billion was led by an extremely active quarter of lending with Freddie Mac, up 137% to $3.7 billion, along with solid growth in Fannie Mae volumes, up 7% to $2.1 billion.

總交易量成長 34% 至 155 億美元，這主要得益於房地美貸款業務的異常活躍，該季度貸款額增長 137% 至 37 億美元，以及房利美貸款量穩健增長，增長 7% 至 21 億美元。

It is important to note that while the growth in GSE lending and W&D's market share is fantastic, the mortgage servicing rights associated with our GSE business have decreased significantly due to the majority of our loans being 5-year loans versus 10-year loans.

值得注意的是，雖然 GSE 貸款的成長和 W&D 的市場佔有率非常可觀，但由於我們的大部分貸款是 5 年期貸款而不是 10 年期貸款，因此與我們的 GSE 業務相關的抵押貸款服務權已大幅下降。

This shift, which began in 2023, has a large impact on the capitalized mortgage servicing rights we book, as Greg will speak to momentarily. But given the growth we are seeing from both existing and new clients to W&D, this shorter duration presents a huge opportunity for asset refinancing and/or sales over the next two to five years.

這一轉變始於 2023 年，對我們記錄的資本化抵押貸款服務權產生了重大影響，格雷格稍後將對此進行闡述。但鑑於 W&D 現有客戶和新客戶的成長，這種較短的期限為未來兩到五年內的資產再融資和/或出售提供了巨大的機會。

Compounding this opportunity are the upcoming refinancings on the 10-year loans written in 2018, '19 and '20. As you can see on this slide, there is $31 billion of scheduled agency maturities in 2025, mostly comprised of 10-year loans originated in 2015.

此外，2018 年、2019 年和 2020 年發放的 10 年期貸款即將進行再融資，這進一步增加了投資機會。正如你在這張投影片上看到的，2025 年有 310 億美元的機構貸款到期，其中大部分是 2015 年發放的 10 年期貸款。

The level of agency maturity steps up to around $50 billion for both '26 and '27 and then increases dramatically to $97 billion in 2028 and $144 billion in 2029 as those later vintages of both 10-year and 5-year loans mature.

2026 年和 2027 年的機構貸款到期水準將上升至約 500 億美元，然後隨著 10 年期和 5 年期貸款的後期到期，到 2028 年將大幅增加到 970 億美元，到 2029 年將大幅增加到 1,440 億美元。

And as we have seen in previous cycles where there appears to be a wall of loan maturities, assets will get sold and refinanced, pulling forward a large portion of the refinancing wall. HUD lending volumes were up 20% in the quarter to $325 million. And while the government shutdown is impacting HUD's ability to process business, the newly implemented efficiencies at HUD and increased borrower demand for HUD capital makes us bullish on the outlook for this lending business going forward.

正如我們在先前的周期中所看到的，當出現大量貸款到期時，資產將被出售和再融資，從而提前解決大部分再融資難題。本季美國住房和城市發展部 (HUD) 的貸款金額增加了 20%，達到 3.25 億美元。雖然政府停擺影響了美國住房和城市發展部 (HUD) 的業務處理能力，但 HUD 新近實施的效率提升措施以及借款人對 HUD 資金日益增長的需求，使我們對這項貸款業務未來的前景充滿信心。

Our Q3 investment sales volume was very strong, up 30% to $4.7 billion and outperforming overall market growth of 17% according to RCA. While oversupplied high-growth markets such as Austin and Nashville, where our team sold $3.5 billion of assets in 2021 and 2022, are still struggling and not seeing much sales activity, gateway cities in their suburbs have operating fundamentals attracting capital.

根據 RCA 的數據，我們第三季的投資銷售額非常強勁，成長了 30%，達到 47 億美元，超過了整體市場 17% 的成長率。雖然像奧斯汀和納許維爾這樣供應過剩的高成長市場（我們的團隊在 2021 年和 2022 年在那裡出售了價值 35 億美元的資產）仍在苦苦掙扎，銷售活動也不多，但它們郊區的門戶城市卻擁有吸引資本的營運基本面。

A good example of this is the $550 million multifamily portfolio we sold in Boston in Q3 and the $350 million financing we arranged for the buyer of that portfolio, reflecting the broad geographic coverage of our team that is driving our growth in 2025.

這是一個很好的例子，例如我們在第三季在波士頓出售的價值 5.5 億美元的多戶住宅投資組合，以及我們為該投資組合的買家安排的 3.5 億美元融資，這反映了我們團隊廣泛的地域覆蓋，這將推動我們在 2025 年實現成長。

And while suburban gateway and slower growth Midwestern cities have stronger supply-demand fundamentals today, the Sunbelt will come back due to job growth and lifestyle choice, and we have the teams in place to capture deal flow when that rebound occurs.

雖然目前郊區門戶城市和成長較慢的中西部城市供需基本面更強，但陽光地帶會因就業成長和生活方式選擇而復甦，我們已經組建了團隊，以便在復甦來臨時抓住交易機會。

Our investment sales platform has 26 teams across the country, including four national specialty practices and is well positioned to take advantage of an increase in activity across geographies as the next cycle gains momentum. There is still a tremendous amount of equity capital that needs to be recycled to investors before commercial real estate private equity funds can raise fresh new capital.

我們的投資銷售平台在全國擁有 26 個團隊，其中包括 4 個全國性專業機構，並且已經做好充分準備，利用下一個週期勢頭強勁時各地活動增加的機會。在商業房地產私募股權基金能夠籌集新的資金之前，仍有大量的股權資本需要重新分配給投資者。

As slide 6 shows, there is over $600 billion of equity capital invested in historic funds for over five years that needs to be returned to investors and nearly $300 billion that was raised in 2021 and 2022 that is yet to be invested.

如投影片 6 所示，超過 6,000 億美元的股權資本已投資於歷史基金超過五年，需要返還給投資者；此外，2021 年和 2022 年籌集的近 3,000 億美元尚未投資。

This pressure to return capital and deploy uninvested capital is an important component part of what is driving increased transaction volumes in 2025. Our brokered debt financing team placed $4.5 billion in Q3, up 12% over Q3 '24. Debt funds, banks and life insurance companies are all active in the marketplace, increasing liquidity, which in turn is beginning to drive down cap rates.

這種返還資本和部署未投資資本的壓力是推動 2025 年交易量成長的重要因素之一。我們的經紀債務融資團隊在第三季完成了 45 億美元的融資，比 2024 年第三季成長了 12%。債務基金、銀行和人壽保險公司都在市場上積極活動，增加了流動性，這反過來又開始壓低資本化率。

Our technology-enabled businesses of small balance lending and appraisals continue to grow with appraise revenues up 21% in the quarter and small balance lending revenues up 69%. We continue to invest in customer-facing technology like Client Navigator, our digital experience for W&D clients. We currently have over 2,700 clients actively monitoring their loans and properties through this portal.

我們以技術為支撐的小額貸款和評估業務持續成長，本季評估收入成長了 21%，小額貸款收入成長了 69%。我們持續投資於以客戶為導向的技術，例如 Client Navigator，這是我們為 W&D 客戶打造的數位體驗。目前，我們有超過 2700 位客戶透過此入口網站積極監控他們的貸款和房產。

Similarly, our clients are increasingly using WDSuite, a new web-based software that provides instantaneous market and asset level insights. Galaxy, our proprietary loan database, continues to source new clients and loans for W&D with 16% of our transaction volume year-to-date being with new clients and 68% of our refinancing volume being new loans to Walker & Dunlop.

同樣，我們的客戶也越來越多地使用 WDSuite，這是一款基於網路的全新軟體，可提供即時的市場和資產層面的洞察。Galaxy 是我們專有的貸款資料庫，它持續為 W&D 尋找新客戶和貸款，今年迄今為止，我們 16% 的交易量來自新客戶，而我們 68% 的再融資量來自 Walker & Dunlop 的新貸款。

Our success continuing to broaden our client base and win loans from our competitors is a testament to the powerful combination of our talented bankers and brokers, innovative technology and exceptional customer service. As you can see from every client-facing execution experiencing strong growth in Q3, W&D's people, brand and technology are well positioned in the marketplace and winning.

我們不斷擴大客戶群並從競爭對手那裡贏得貸款的成功，證明了我們才華橫溢的銀行家和經紀人、創新技術和卓越的客戶服務的強大組合。從第三季每個面向客戶的執行項目所取得的強勁成長可以看出，W&D 的人員、品牌和技術在市場上佔據了有利地位，並且正在取得成功。

We see the secular tailwinds behind our business, almost three years of pent-up demand, lower interest rates and the need to recycle capital to investors for future investment continuing over the next several years as the economy continues to grow and commercial real estate fundamentals improve.

我們看到，隨著經濟持續成長和商業房地產基本面改善，未來幾年內，我們業務將面臨長期利好因素，包括近三年來積壓的需求、較低的利率以及將資本回流給投資者進行未來投資的需求。

We are seeing very similar market dynamics in 2025 to what we saw after the great financial crisis in 2011, '12 and '13 and have built Walker & Dunlop to meet the market's needs and grow.

我們看到 2025 年的市場動態與 2011 年、2012 年和 2013 年金融危機後的市場動態非常相似，因此我們建立了 Walker & Dunlop 公司，以滿足市場需求並實現成長。

I will now turn the call over to Greg to talk through our financial results in more detail.

現在我將把電話交給格雷格，讓他更詳細地談談我們的財務表現。

Thank you, Willy, and good morning, everyone. As Willy just outlined, the continued momentum of the commercial real estate transaction markets drove growth across every one of our product offerings in Q3 '25.

謝謝你，威利，大家早安。正如 Willy 剛才概述的那樣，商業房地產交易市場的持續成長勢頭推動了我們在 2025 年第三季所有產品的成長。

Both of our operating segments, Capital Markets and Servicing and Asset Management grew revenues this quarter, reflecting the strength of our overall business model as the market continues to improve. Diving into our segments, our capital markets team continued to build momentum, delivering volume growth across every product offering this quarter when compared to the year ago quarter.

本季度，我們的兩個營運部門——資本市場和服務與資產管理——的收入均實現成長，這反映出隨著市場持續改善，我們整體商業模式的強勁勢頭。深入分析我們的業務板塊，我們的資本市場團隊繼續保持成長勢頭，與去年同期相比，本季所有產品的銷售量均有所成長。

As a result, loan origination fees grew 32%, property sales broker fees grew 37% and MSR revenues increased 12% year-over-year. Over the past two years, we highlighted two trends in our GSE lending volumes. The first is a shift away from 10-year loan products towards shorter duration 5-year products. As this graph shows, back in 2020, 82% of W&D's GSE lending was 10-year or longer paper and 0% was 5-year. Fast forward to today, and those numbers have essentially inverted.

因此，貸款發放費增加了 32%，房產銷售經紀費增加了 37%，MSR 收入年增了 12%。過去兩年，我們重點關注了政府支持企業貸款量的兩個趨勢。首先，貸款期限從 10 年期產品轉向期限較短的 5 年期產品。如圖所示，2020 年，W&D 向 GSE 提供的貸款中，82% 為 10 年或更長期限的債券，5 年期限的債券佔比為 0%。時至今日，這些數字基本上已經顛倒了。

Year-to-date in 2025, 23% of loans are 10-year or longer, while 60% are 5-year.

截至 2025 年，23% 的貸款期限為 10 年或更長，而 60% 的貸款期限為 5 年。

The second trend we have seen over the past two years is tighter servicing fees due to the higher interest rate environment. Both of these trends continued this quarter, which led to lower valuations for our noncash MSRs.

過去兩年我們看到的第二個趨勢是因為利率環境走高，導致服務費收緊。本季這兩個趨勢仍在繼續，導致我們的非現金抵押貸款服務權估值下降。

So even though the 64% growth in GSE lending volumes this quarter was fantastic, it only drove a 12% increase in our noncash MSR revenues compared to the year ago quarter. These clients are part of our ecosystem and their loans are now in our servicing portfolio, and we will be in the pole position to address those loans for our clients as they prepare to transact over the next 5 years.

儘管本季度 GSE 貸款量增長了 64%，非常可觀，但與去年同期相比，我們的非現金 MSR 收入僅增長了 12%。這些客戶是我們生態系統的一部分，他們的貸款現在都在我們的服務組合中，在未來 5 年裡，當我們的客戶準備進行交易時，我們將處於領先地位來處理這些貸款。

As shown on Slide 9, total Capital Markets segment revenues grew 26% year-over-year. Net income grew 28% to $28 million, and adjusted EBITDA improved 83% to a loss of less than $1 million. This segment's performance this quarter is a reflection of the team on the field and what they are capable of delivering as market conditions continue improving.

如投影片 9 所示，資本市場部門總收入年增 26%。淨利潤成長 28% 至 2,800 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 改善 83%，虧損不到 100 萬美元。本季該業務部門的表現反映了團隊的實力以及在市場條件持續改善的情況下他們所能取得的成就。

We expect to see more quarters like this as momentum in the markets continue building. Our Servicing and Asset Management, or SAM segment grew third quarter total revenues by 4% year-over-year, as shown on slide 10.

我們預計隨著市場動能持續增強，未來幾季還會出現類似的情況。如投影片 10 所示，我們的服務和資產管理（SAM）部門第三季總營收年增 4%。

Our $139 billion servicing portfolio continues to generate steady cash servicing fees that grew 4% this quarter.

我們價值 1,390 億美元的服務組合繼續產生穩定的現金服務費，本季成長了 4%。

Our placement fees and other interest income also grew this quarter by 5%, even though short-term interest rates declined year-over-year. We experienced an uptick in loan payoffs this quarter, many of which we refinanced for our clients, temporarily increasing the balance of our escrow accounts and offsetting the year-over-year decline in interest rates. This is a nice surprise in Q3, but not something we expect to persist in future quarters. Overall, SAM segment net income declined 1%, but adjusted EBITDA grew 2% to $119 million.

儘管短期利率年減，但我們本季的安置費和其他利息收入也增加了 5%。本季我們的貸款償還量有所增加，其中許多貸款我們為客戶進行了再融資，暫時增加了我們的託管帳戶餘額，抵消了同比利率下降的影響。這是第三季的驚喜，但我們預計這種情況不會在未來幾季持續下去。整體而言，SAM部門淨收入下降了1%，但調整後的EBITDA成長了2%，達到1.19億美元。

Turning to credit. Our at-risk servicing portfolio continues to perform exceptionally well with only 10 defaulted loans totaling just 21 basis points. We recognized a $1 million provision for loan losses this quarter compared to $2.9 million in the year ago quarter.

轉向信貸。我們的風險貸款服務組合持續表現出色，僅有 10 筆違約貸款，總違約率僅 21 個基點。本季我們確認了 100 萬美元的貸款損失準備金，而去年同期為 290 萬美元。

The provision this quarter was driven by updated loss estimates on two previously defaulted loans as well as standard loss provisions for the growth in our overall at-risk portfolio. We continue to see strengthening operating fundamentals across the portfolio as rates come down, excess supply in certain high-growth markets get absorbed and national occupancy increases.

本季度撥備主要受兩筆先前違約貸款的損失估計更新以及整體風險投資組合增長的標準損失撥備的影響。隨著利率下降、某些高成長市場的過剩供應消化以及全國入住率上升，我們持續看到整個投資組合的營運基本面不斷增強。

While our portfolio performance is exceptional, and we feel extremely good about the credit quality of our book, we continue to investigate in collaboration with the GSEs, specific incidences of borrower fraud that took place largely as a result of changes in industry practices in the aftermath of the pandemic.

雖然我們的投資組合表現優異，我們對帳簿的信貸品質也感到非常滿意，但我們仍在與政府支持企業 (GSE) 合作，繼續調查一些借款人欺詐的具體案例，這些案例主要是由於疫情後行業慣例的變化而導致的。

We are currently in negotiations with Freddie Mac on the indemnification of two such loan portfolios totaling $100 million. While Freddie Mac and Walker & Dunlop jointly underwrote these loans, we have a long-standing partnership with Freddie Mac that requires us to repurchase loans or indemnify them if certain borrower documentation is determined to be fraudulent.

我們目前正在與房地美就兩筆總額達 1 億美元的此類貸款組合的賠償事宜進行談判。雖然房地美和沃克鄧洛普共同承銷了這些貸款，但我們與房地美有著長期的合作關係，根據該關係，如果某些借款人文件被認定為欺詐，我們將回購貸款或對其進行賠償。

Our current expectation is to use approximately $20 million of Walker & Dunlop capital to collateralize our indemnification of Freddie Mac for these loans, and we expect to take the credit losses associated with this portfolio in the fourth quarter.

我們目前的預期是使用 Walker & Dunlop 約 2000 萬美元的資本作為抵押，為房地美就這些貸款提供的賠償提供擔保，我們預計將在第四季度承擔與該投資組合相關的信用損失。

While loan buybacks and the associated losses are never welcome, we do not have other fraud investigations underway with either GSE and feel confident that the policies, procedures and new technology we have in place today protect us from the type of borrower fraud that transpired during and in the immediate aftermath of the pandemic from occurring again.

雖然我們並不歡迎貸款回購及其帶來的損失，但我們目前沒有對任何一家政府支持企業進行其他詐欺調查，並且我們有信心，我們現有的政策、程序和新技術能夠保護我們免受疫情期間及疫情結束後發生的借款人欺詐行為的再次發生。

As Willy just outlined, we have significant momentum heading into the fourth quarter and the strength of our pipeline and the macroeconomic environment has our core business on the path toward achieving our annual guidance for EPS, adjusted core EPS and adjusted EBITDA, absent any losses related to loan buybacks.

正如 Willy 剛才概述的那樣，我們進入第四季度後勢頭強勁，我們強大的產品線和宏觀經濟環境使我們的核心業務朝著實現年度每股收益、調整後核心每股收益和調整後 EBITDA 目標的方向發展，不包括與貸款回購相關的任何損失。

We ended the quarter with $275 million of cash on our balance sheet, reflecting the continued recurring revenues from our SAM segment, combined with a rebound in capital markets activity.

本季末，我們的資產負債表上擁有 2.75 億美元的現金，這反映了我們 SAM 部門持續的經常性收入，以及資本市場活動的反彈。

Our capital deployment strategy remains focused on organic growth opportunities through recruiting and retention, reinvestment in strategic areas of the business and continued support of our quarterly dividend. To that end, yesterday, our Board of Directors approved a quarterly dividend of $0.67 per share payable to shareholders of record as of November 21.

我們的資本部署策略仍專注於透過招募和留住人才來實現內生成長機會，對業務的策略領域進行再投資，並繼續支持我們的季度股息。為此，昨天，我們的董事會批准向截至 11 月 21 日登記在冊的股東派發每股 0.67 美元的季度股息。

As I said previously, we feel very good about our business model, credit outlook, market positioning and growth opportunities for 2026 and beyond. Thank you for your time this morning.

正如我之前所說，我們對我們的商業模式、信用前景、市場定位以及2026年及以後的成長機會都感到非常樂觀。感謝您今天上午抽出時間。

I will now turn the call back over to Willy.

現在我將把通話轉回給威利。

Thank you, Greg. As Greg just described, our business is very strong as we finish off 2025 and start looking ahead to the coming year. Our bankers and brokers are winning, driving strong transaction volume and revenue growth. And while our clients borrowing for shorter duration is putting downward pressure on noncash mortgage servicing rights, we are being set up for an extremely strong run of both cash origination fees and new mortgage servicing rights as the shorter duration loans of 2023, '24 and '25 come up for refinancing over the next two to five years.

謝謝你，格雷格。正如格雷格剛才所描述的那樣，隨著 2025 年即將結束，我們開始展望來年，我們的業務非常強勁。我們的銀行家和經紀人正在取得成功，推動了強勁的交易量和收入成長。雖然客戶借款期限縮短給非現金抵押貸款服務權帶來了下行壓力，但隨著 2023 年、2024 年和 2025 年的短期貸款在未來兩到五年內進行再融資，我們有望迎來現金發放費和新的抵押貸款服務權的強勁增長。

Our market share with the GSEs continues to grow. And as Fannie and Freddie get ready for potential public offerings, we expect to see their multifamily lending volumes increase. Similarly, we see HUD becoming a more efficient and competitive source of capital.

我們在政府支持企業（GSE）中的市佔率持續成長。隨著房利美和房地美為可能的公開募股做準備，我們預計它們的多戶住宅貸款量將會增加。同樣，我們看到美國住房和城市發展部（HUD）正成為更有效率、更具競爭力的資金來源。

We remain at the top of the league tables with Fannie, Freddie and HUD, and we see a tremendous amount of opportunity ahead as the Trump administration focuses on lowering the cost of housing in America. We saw the opportunity and necessity to be a scaled player in multifamily investment sales back in 2015.

我們與房利美、房地美和住房與城市發展部一起繼續位居排行榜榜首，隨著川普政府致力於降低美國的住房成本，我們看到了巨大的機會。早在 2015 年，我們就看到了成為多戶住宅投資銷售領域規模化參與者的機會和必要性。

And after a decade of growth, our sales volumes have increased 40% in 2025, handily beating the industry average of 17%.

經過十年的發展，到 2025 年，我們的銷售額成長了 40%，輕鬆超過了 17% 的行業平均值。

We can still grow this group further in the United States, Europe as well as into new asset classes such as hospitality, retail and industrial. Investment sales is the tip of the spear with regard to real estate capital markets activity, and we will continue to invest in great talent for many years to come. We are focused on the continued expansion of our debt brokerage business.

我們仍然可以在美國、歐洲以及酒店、零售和工業等新的資產類別中進一步發展這個集團。投資銷售是房地產資本市場活動的先鋒，我們將繼續在未來許多年投資優秀人才。我們專注於持續拓展債務經紀業務。

We split this business into two units earlier this year, one led by Aaron Appel, focusing on institutional clients and the other run by Alison Williams, focusing on middle market and regional borrowers. Both of these groups have a massive total addressable market of almost $3 trillion of refinancing volume based on our contractual maturities over the next five years.

今年早些時候，我們將這項業務拆分為兩個部門，一個由 Aaron Appel 領導，專注於機構客戶；另一個由 Alison Williams 領導，專注於中端市場和區域借款人。根據我們未來五年的合約到期情況，這兩個集團的潛在再融資市場總額接近 3 兆美元。

We will both add bankers and brokers as well as expand our investment sales business to make W&D as competitive in banking, the retail, hospitality and industrial sectors as we are in multifamily. Given the strong total transaction volume we closed in Q3 and the strength of our Q4 pipeline, it is clear that our bankers and brokers are meeting their clients' broad needs today.

我們將增加銀行家和經紀人，並擴大我們的投資銷售業務，使 W&D 在銀行業、零售業、酒店業和工業領域像在多戶住宅領域一樣具有競爭力。鑑於我們在第三季完成了強勁的總交易量，以及我們第四季度強勁的業務儲備，很明顯，我們的銀行家和經紀人正在滿足他們客戶目前的廣泛需求。

Year-to-date, our annualized average transaction volume per banker broker is $220 million, ahead of our 2025 goal of $200 million per banker broker and tracking towards our 2021 peak of $311 million.

今年迄今為止，我們每位銀行經紀人的年化平均交易量為 2.2 億美元，超過了我們 2025 年每位銀行經紀人 2 億美元的目標，並正朝著 2021 年 3.11 億美元的峰值邁進。

We see data becoming increasingly important to us and our clients. As I mentioned earlier, our Galaxy database continues to identify new clients and loans to W&D. Our client portal developed completely in-house provides our borrowers with data on their loans and portfolio of assets that we believe is unique and differentiating in the marketplace.

我們看到數據對我們和我們的客戶來說變得越來越重要。正如我之前提到的，我們的 Galaxy 資料庫不斷為 W&D 識別新的客戶和貸款。我們完全自主開發的客戶入口網站為借款人提供有關其貸款和資產組合的數據，我們認為這在市場上是獨特且具有差異化的。

And while there are multitudes of point solutions for technology and data in the marketplace today, we see the combination of our people, technology and data as the way to differentiate us today and going forward.

雖然目前市場上有許多針對技術和數據的單點解決方案，但我們認為，將我們的人員、技術和數據結合起來，才是我們現在和未來脫穎而出的關鍵。

Aggregating data from our Zelman research, brokers' opinions of value, appraisals, loan underwriting and servicing portfolio to identify trends and investment opportunities for our clients is where we will continue to invest.

我們將繼續投資於以下領域：匯總來自澤爾曼研究、經紀人對價值的意見、評估、貸款承銷和服務組合的數據，以確定趨勢和投資機會，從而為我們的客戶創造價值。

W&D is the 10th largest commercial loan servicer in the United States. We have invested heavily in people and technology and believe we have one of the best servicing platforms in the world. But we know there are economies of scale we can gain by expanding our servicing business by either buying mortgage servicing rights or increasing our loan origination capabilities significantly.

W&D是美國第十大商業貸款服務商。我們在人才和技術方面投入巨資，相信我們擁有世界上最好的服務平台之一。但我們知道，透過購買抵押貸款服務權或大幅提高貸款發放能力來擴大我們的服務業務，我們可以獲得規模經濟效益。

Our fund management business continues to grow, but we need to raise more capital. In 2025, our team will invest just under $1 billion of capital in debt and equity investments, and over half of that deal flow was sourced by Walker & Dunlop bankers and brokers.

我們的基金管理業務持續成長，但我們需要籌集更多資金。2025 年，我們的團隊將投入近 10 億美元的資金用於債務和股權投資，其中超過一半的交易機會是由 Walker & Dunlop 的銀行家和經紀人促成的。

We see great value in both our fund management professionals' ability to structure and deploy capital as well as our large distribution network of 225 bankers and brokers across the country who have placed $28 billion of capital year-to-date.

我們認為，我們的基金管理專業人員在建立和部署資本方面的能力，以及我們遍布全國的 225 位銀行家和經紀人組成的龐大分銷網絡，都具有巨大的價值，他們今年迄今已投入了 280 億美元的資本。

We are extremely focused on growing our fund management business by raising additional capital vehicles to meet our clients' varying capital needs. We see the continued institutionalization of the commercial real estate industry as capital raising and technology become more differentiators.

我們非常注重發展基金管理業務，透過募集更多資金來滿足客戶不同的資金需求。我們看到，隨著資本籌集和技術成為越來越重要的差異化因素，商業房地產產業將持續走向制度化。

W&D has best-in-class point solutions in lending, property brokerage, research and appraisals with a very real opportunity to combine these service offerings into a scaled suite to the institutional investor community.

W&D 在貸款、房地產經紀、研究和評估方面擁有業內領先的解決方案，並且很有可能將這些服務產品整合到一個面向機構投資者的規模化套件中。

Our capital markets group is increasingly selling more than one service to our clients, debt financing along with investment sales or fund valuation services along with research. The opportunities for growth in our industry with W&D's people, brand and technology are enormous.

我們的資本市場集團正越來越多地向客戶銷售多種服務，包括債務融資以及投資銷售或基金估值服務以及研究服務。W&D 的人才、品牌和技術為我們行業帶來了巨大的發展機會。

And the challenge and opportunity over the coming years will be to integrate our service offerings to meet the needs of our customers, particularly institutional investors, where we see capital and assets aggregating. Finally, our brand could not be stronger. The Walker webcast is about to surpass 20 million views on YouTube and Spotify, placing it as the preeminent voice to the commercial real estate industry by a wide margin.

未來幾年的挑戰和機會在於整合我們的服務產品，以滿足客戶的需求，特別是機構投資者的需求，我們看到資本和資產正在向他們集中。最後，我們的品牌實力再強不過了。沃克網路直播在 YouTube 和 Spotify 上的觀看次數即將突破 2000 萬，使其遙遙領先其他商業房地產行業的聲音。

Zelman research continues to expand its coverage universe and maintains its reputation as one of the most insightful housing research companies in the United States. And our bankers and brokers exceed their clients' expectations consistently, which in the services business is the best branding and marketing possible.

Zelman 研究不斷擴大其覆蓋範圍，並保持其作為美國最具洞察力的住房研究公司之一的聲譽。我們的銀行家和經紀人始終超越客戶的期望，這在服務業是最好的品牌推廣和行銷方式。

W&D's net promoter score year-to-date is 86, a number well above the financial services industry average and a reflection of the exceptional people, technology and client focus of Walker & Dunlop.

今年迄今為止，W&D 的淨推薦值 (NPS) 為 86，遠高於金融服務業的平均水平，這反映了 Walker & Dunlop 的優秀人才、技術和客戶至上的理念。

These are exciting times for our company. We see an enormous opportunity ahead to expand our capabilities, bring technology to our business that makes our clients and us more insightful and more efficient and continue growing to drive exceptional shareholders' returns.

對我們公司而言，這是一個令人興奮的時刻。我們看到了巨大的機遇，可以擴展我們的能力，將科技引入我們的業務，使我們的客戶和我們自己更有洞察力、更有效率，並繼續發展，從而為股東帶來卓越的回報。

I'd like to thank our entire team for a terrific Q3, and I would ask the operator to open the line for questions. Thank you.

我要感謝我們整個團隊在第三季取得的出色成績，並請接線生開通線路接受提問。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Jade Rahmani, KBW.

Jade Rahmani，KBW。

Thank you very much. Just to start off with on the two new loan repurchase requests. So far this quarter, we have seen some of the agency multifamily lenders, particularly Greystone take charges, JLL and Arbor also have taken charges. W&D's credit has been pristine through this cycle.

非常感謝。首先，我們來談談這兩筆新的貸款回購申請。本季至今，我們看到一些機構多戶住宅貸款機構，特別是 Greystone，採取了抵押措施，JLL 和 Arbor 也採取了抵押措施。在本輪週期中，W&D 的信用記錄一直保持良好。

So this is a modest surprise, although I don't think it's huge. But just can you give any context as to how widespread the issue might be?

所以這算是一個小小的驚喜，雖然我覺得它不算太大的驚喜。您能否提供一些背景信息，說明這個問題可能有多普遍？

I think the last repurchase requests you received were in 2024.

我認為您收到的最後一次回購請求是在 2024 年。

Yeah, Jade, good morning and thanks for joining us. As Greg underscored, this is isolated to the portfolios that have been identified by us and by Freddie, so we do not have any other investigations underway with either GSE. And so we feel good about that. And at the same time, as Greg said, we never like it when this happens, but feel very good that we have the people, the processes and the systems in place to make sure that this doesn't happen again.

是的，Jade，早安，感謝你加入我們。正如格雷格所強調的那樣，這僅限於我們和房地美已經確定的投資組合，因此我們目前沒有對這兩家政府支持企業進行任何其他調查。所以，我們對此感到很滿意。同時，正如格雷格所說，我們當然不希望這種情況發生，但我們感到非常欣慰的是，我們已經建立了相應的人員、流程和系統，以確保這種情況不會再次發生。

And in terms of credit trends within the portfolio beyond these select instances of apparent fraud, how has credit been performing? I know in the past, you've talked about 2x debt service coverage ratio in the Fannie portfolio, but are you seeing any credit deterioration at this point?

除了這些明顯的詐欺案例之外，投資組合中的信貸趨勢表現如何？信貸表現如何？我知道您之前曾談到房利美投資組合的 2 倍債務償付覆蓋率，但您目前是否看到任何信用惡化的跡象？

No. Actually, if you look at the provision for loss sharing in Q3 of last year at $2.9 million and it lowering to $1 million this quarter and Greg's comment as it relates to the overall performance fundamentals of the portfolio, it's exceptionally good.

不。實際上，如果你看去年第三季的損失分攤準備金為 290 萬美元，而本季已降至 100 萬美元，再加上 Greg 就投資組合整體業績基本面所作的評論，就會發現情況非常好。

I would underscore the fact that our at-risk portfolio right now as it relates to defaulted loans is sitting at less than 20 basis points. If you look out into CMBS portfolios, the multifamily default rate in CMBS portfolios just eclipsed 7%.

我想強調的是，目前我們面臨風險的投資組合中，違約貸款的比例不到 20 個基點。如果你查看 CMBS 投資組合，你會發現 CMBS 投資組合中的多戶住宅違約率剛好超過 7%。

And so I think it's a testament to us and to the underwriting policies and procedures that the agencies have had in place for decades that has maintained such a pristine credit track record.

因此，我認為這證明了我們以及各機構幾十年來一直實施的承保政策和程序，正是這些政策和程序才保持瞭如此完美的信用記錄。

And we feel extremely good about the underlying credit fundamentals of our portfolio, particularly with the amount of debt capital that has come back to the market as well as where interest rates and cap rates appear to be trending.

我們對投資組合的基本面信貸狀況感到非常樂觀，尤其是考慮到市場上已有大量債務資本回流，以及利率和資本化率的走勢。

Thank you. Just turning back.

謝謝。只是往回走。

Just to add to what Willy said just real quick. I mean there's still really strong national occupancy and just fundamental tailwinds behind multifamily as a sector. So that just contributes to the strength of the portfolio. So it's not just our assets, but it just broadly, there's really strong tailwinds behind the sector that just continue to strengthen overall credit. So I think the repurchases are isolated relative to the broader credit of our book.

我只想簡單補充Willy剛才說的話。我的意思是，目前全國多戶住宅入住率依然非常強勁，而且多戶住宅產業本身也面臨著許多好因素。這樣就增強了投資組合的實力。所以不僅是我們的資產，而是整個產業都面臨著強勁的順風，這些順風將繼續增強整體信貸水準。所以我認為，相對於我們帳面的整體信用狀況而言，這些回購是孤立的。

Thank you. Just turning to volumes. Fannie Mae volumes seemed a little light and the strength was clearly in the Freddie business. Was there anything that weighed on Fannie volumes in the quarter? And do you expect to pick up in the fourth quarter?

謝謝。直接進入音量控制環節。房利美的交易量似乎有點低，而房地美的業務顯然更強勁。本季房利美交易量是否受到任何因素影響？你預計第四季情況會好轉嗎？

As you know, Jade, from having covered us for quite some time, Fannie and Freddie sort of wax and wane as it relates to market participation and market volumes. And when one sort of steps in, the other one goes down a little bit.

傑德，正如你所知，你報道我們很長一段時間了，房利美和房地美在市場參與度和市場交易量方面總是時好時壞。當一方介入時，另一方就會稍微退縮一些。

The nice thing for us is that we are number one with Fannie Mae and our indication right now, there are no league tables that have come out year-to-date, but our indication is that we're right at the very top of the league tables with Freddie Mac as well.

對我們來說，好消息是我們在房利美排名第一，而且根據我們目前的觀察，雖然今年迄今為止還沒有公佈任何排行榜，但我們的觀察顯示，我們在房地美的排行榜上也名列前茅。

And so as a very large scaled agency lender, as one or the other is more competitive, we're going to benefit from getting more deal flow done with the agency that is doing more transaction volume at that time.

因此，作為一家規模非常大的機構貸款機構，當其中一家更具競爭力時，我們將受益於與當時交易量較大的機構達成更多交易。

And so we feel extremely good about where both agencies are today as it relates to annual volumes. As you know, neither Fannie nor Freddie hit their caps in 2024 or 2023. And it is very clear that both Fannie and Freddie are headed towards hitting their caps in 2025.

因此，我們對這兩個機構目前的年度業務量都非常滿意。如您所知，房利美和房地美在 2024 年和 2023 年都沒有達到其上限。很明顯，房利美和房地美都將在 2025 年達到其儲量上限。

The regulator has not given the cap number for 2026 yet, but there is a lot of talk about an increase in the cap. How much of an increase is to be determined, but we see that it's great that both agencies are headed towards hitting their 2025 caps and that my sense from having spoken with officials at FHFA that we'll probably see a cap increase in 2026.

監管機構尚未公佈 2026 年的上限數字，但關於提高上限的討論很多。成長幅度尚待確定，但我們看到，這兩個機構都朝著實現 2025 年的上限邁進，這是一件好事。而且，根據我與 FHFA 官員的交談，我的感覺是，我們可能會在 2026 年看到上限提高。

Thanks very much.

非常感謝。

Steve Delaney, Citizen's Capital Markets.

史蒂夫·德萊尼，公民資本市場。

Good morning everyone. Thanks for taking the question. Willy, my question was going to be would you see the possibility of a refi wave coming later this year as the Fed cuts and maybe the bond market rallies a little bit? It sounds like you're in one. And if you could comment on that -- those vintage, the post-COVID vintage loans, the nature of those transactions, do you think that those borrowers had a shorter mindset? In other words, was it more opportunistic money and that's why you're seeing some exiting of properties as opposed to simply doing a rate and term refinance?

大家早安。感謝您回答這個問題。Willy，我原本想問的是，隨著聯準會降息，債券市場可能會小幅反彈，你認為今年稍後是否有可能出現再融資浪潮？聽起來你好像身處其中。如果您能就此發表評論——那些新冠疫情後的貸款，以及這些交易的性質，您認為這些借款人的思維方式是短期的嗎？換句話說，這筆錢更多是投機取巧的，所以你才會看到一些房產被拋售，而不是只進行利率和期限再融資？

Just your thoughts on if the nature of the recent originations is really what's causing the prepayments that you're seeing now. Thank you.

您認為最近新增貸款的性質是否真的是導致目前出現的提前還款現象的原因？謝謝。

Sure, Steve, good morning. Thanks for joining us. I think you have to underscore the recycling of capital as one of the major drivers of the market we're in today. Many, many of the large participants in the broader commercial real estate markets and more specifically the multifamily markets are fund businesses that have finite lives and have a tremendous amount of capital that needs to be recycled back to investors before they are going to be able to go and raise that next fund.

當然，史蒂夫，早安。謝謝您的參與。我認為必須強調資本循環是當今市場的主要驅動力之一。更廣泛的商業房地產市場，尤其是多戶住宅市場中的許多大型參與者都是基金公司，這些基金公司的壽命有限，並且擁有大量的資本，這些資本需要回流到投資者手中，然後才能繼續籌集下一期基金。

And with essentially very limited to -- you can't say no deal activity in 2023 and 2024, but very muted deal activity in '23 and '24, we sort of arrived in '25 with a lot of people sitting there saying, I've got to start recycling capital back to my investors if I have a chance of going and raising my next fund.

而且，2023 年和 2024 年的交易活動基本上非常有限——你不能說 2023 年和 2024 年完全沒有交易活動，但 2023 年和 2024 年的交易活動非常低迷，到了 2025 年，很多人都在說，如果我有機會籌集下一期基金，我就必須開始將投資者回饋給我的投資者。

And so a lot of the sales activity and financing activity that we've seen in 2025 has not been because cap rates have been, if you will, exceptionally low or exceptionally exciting for someone to sell into.

因此，我們在 2025 年看到的許多銷售活動和融資活動並不是因為資本化率異常低，或者對某些人來說特別有吸引力而發生的。

It's been that need to recycle capital that has driven the transaction markets. And what that's also done is it's closed off the bid ask. A lot of sellers have sat there and said, I don't really like the price that I'm selling at. And yet at the same time, they have to recycle that capital.

正是這種資本循環利用的需求推動了交易市場的發展。這樣做也關閉了買賣報價。很多賣家都坐在那裡說：“我不太喜歡我現在的售價。”但同時，他們又必須對這些資金進行再利用。

So they have, to some degree, capitulated on the pricing of the market and allowed the buyer to step in and buy the asset at a price that they find to be attractive. And so throughout the year, we've seen that bid-ask shrink. The beginning of the year was much wider and it's gotten tighter and tighter.

因此，他們在某種程度上對市場定價做出了讓步，讓買家以他們認為有吸引力的價格購買資產。因此，在過去一年中，我們看到買賣價差一直在縮小。年初的時候市場格局比較寬裕，現在越來越窄了。

Interest rates have obviously played into that, making it so that both on the buy side, you're buying the asset at a relatively cheaper price. And we've also seen cap rates come down modestly. I think that what we're now looking at is with that transaction volume going on, you now have buyers and sellers back in the market. That bid-ask has come down, which just drives that transaction activity. And it's getting a lot of people off the sidelines, if you will.

利率顯然對此產生了影響，使得買方能夠以相對較低的價格購買資產。我們也看到資本化率略有下降。我認為我們現在看到的是，隨著交易量的增加，買家和賣家都重新回到了市場上。買賣價差下降，直接推動了交易活動。它讓很多人不再袖手旁觀。

And so you know this, Steve, we're in a cyclical business. We have been in a down cycle for the last three years since the great tightening began. And we're now starting that next cycle, and it's not just happening at Walker & Dunlop.

所以你也知道，史蒂夫，我們身處在一個週期性產業。自從三年前經濟大幅緊縮以來，我們一直處於經濟下行週期。我們現在正開始下一個週期，而且這種情況不僅發生在沃克和鄧祿普公司。

If you look at the commentary of all of our competitor firms on their Q3 capital markets activity, there is pretty widespread commentary that transaction volumes are picking up. I would also say that everyone has been very tempered in their commentary to say this is a slow build back to where we were at the end of the last cycle.

如果你看看我們所有競爭對手公司對其第三季資本市場活動的評論，你會發現交易量正在回升，這幾乎是普遍的觀點。我還要說，大家在評論中都非常謹慎，認為這是一個緩慢恢復到上一個週期結束時狀態的過程。

I don't think anybody is saying there's some massive amount of activity that's going to happen in the upcoming quarter because I think everyone is quite honestly a little scared to get over their skis and say, hey, this is going to be game on. But we clearly, from looking at our transaction volumes from Q1 to Q2, Q2 to Q3 and what we're looking in our forward pipeline for Q4, are seeing a resurgence of activity in the real estate capital markets.

我認為沒有人會說接下來的一個季度會發生大量的活動，因為我認為每個人都相當害怕放慢腳步，說：“嘿，好戲就要開始了。”但從我們第一季到第二季、第二季到第三季的交易量，以及我們對第四季未來專案的展望來看，我們顯然看到房地產資本市場活動正在復甦。

Interesting. And it sounds like the loan product has definitely shifted to more demand for a five-year term than a 10-year term, if I heard you correctly. What are you quoting a five-year Fannie or Freddie multifamily loan at just the range of what you're quoting the coupon at today for five years? And how would that compare to the weighted average coupon in your servicing book?

有趣的。如果我沒理解錯的話，貸款產品的需求似乎從十年期轉向五年期。您報價的五年期房利美或房地美多戶住宅貸款，利率範圍與您今天報價的五年期票面利率範圍相同，具體是多少？那麼，這與您服務手冊中的加權平均優惠券相比如何？

Steve, well, I can tell you this, first of all, there are a couple of factors that play into that. One of the things that I think is an important data point is that the spread between a 5-year treasury and a 10-year treasury, last I looked at it, it was about 50 basis points. But if you actually do a 10-year loan versus a 5-year loan, it's actually only 15 basis points more expensive to the borrower.

史蒂夫，嗯，我可以告訴你，首先，有幾個因素會影響這一點。我認為一個重要的數據點是，我上次查看時，5 年期國債和 10 年期國債之間的利差約為 50 個基點。但如果你選擇 10 年期貸款而不是 5 年期貸款，實際上對借款人來說只貴 15 個基點。

And so one of the big things that's going on in the market is, I believe, borrowers look at that 50 basis points spread between the 10-year treasury and the 5-year treasury and they say, well, I want to go short. But given where spreads are on 5-year agency paper versus 10-year agency paper, you're only 15 basis points more expensive going long than you are going relatively shorter.

因此，我認為，市場上正在發生的一件大事是，借款人看到 10 年期國債和 5 年期國債之間 50 個基點的利差，然後他們說，好吧，我想做空。但考慮到 5 年期機構公債與 10 年期機構公債的利差，做多只比做空貴 15 個基點。

The other piece to your specific question is whether the client is doing a rate buydown or whether the client is just taking the existing rate and spread on top of it. But if you're taking the existing rate and the spread on top, we're doing a lot of financing in the high 4s right now.

關於您提出的具體問題，另一個需要了解的問題是：客戶是在進行利率壓低，還是僅在現有利率的基礎上加價？但如果你把現有利率加上利差算進去，我們現在的融資金額大多在 4% 以上。

Last one I looked at yesterday was a 4.83% coupon on a 5-year deal. But that 4% to 5% number is also something that a lot of clients are sort of getting attracted to where they sit there and look at, hey, I can do a 5-year deal at a 4.78% coupon. And if I do a 10-year deal, that's going to push it up closer to 5%, I want to go with the lower one.

我昨天看到的最後一張優惠券是五年合約 4.83% 的折扣。但 4% 到 5% 這個數字也吸引了很多客戶，他們會想，嘿，我可以以 4.78% 的折扣價簽訂一份 5 年的合約。如果我簽一份 10 年的合同，利率就會接近 5%，我還是想選擇較低的那個。

The other piece to it, Steve, is the prepayment flexibility that a 5-year loan gives you versus a 10-year loan.

史蒂夫，另一方面，5 年期貸款相比 10 年期貸款，還款方式更有彈性。

What we're seeing a lot of borrowers do is sit there and say, I don't want to sell the asset today, but I probably want to sell the asset in the next three to five years. Therefore, let's go with a 5-year loan that gives us prepayment flexibility and a lower prepayment penalty in year 3 or opens up at 4.5, then go and lock in a 10-year instrument that is rate lock, that is prepayment protected for 9.5 years.

我們看到很多藉款人會說，我今天不想賣掉資產，但我可能在未來三到五年內想賣掉資產。因此，我們選擇 5 年期貸款，該貸款在第 3 年提供提前還款的靈活性和較低的提前還款罰金，或者在第 4.5 年開放，然後再鎖定 10 年期利率鎖定工具，該工具在 9.5 年內提供提前還款保護。

And so one of the things that that says to me is that if they're buying that optionality today and only going with a shorter structure, that sales activity or refinancing activity that's going to come up in two, three and four years is going to be quite robust because they're buying that optionality to do something with the asset in the next three, four, five years.

因此，這對我來說意味著，如果他們今天購買了這種選擇權，並且只選擇較短的期限，那麼未來兩三年甚至四年內出現的銷售活動或再融資活動將會非常強勁，因為他們購買了這種選擇權，以便在未來三四年甚至五年內對該資產進行一些操作。

So that's the reason why the shorter durations. We don't like the downward pressure it's put on our mortgage servicing rights, but we also are sitting there saying, wow, there's going to be a great opportunity in the next three, four and five years as this five-year paper from '23, '24 and '25 needs to either be sold or refinanced.

所以這就是時長縮短的原因。我們不喜歡它給我們的抵押貸款服務權帶來的下行壓力，但我們也不得不承認，未來三、四、五年將是一個絕佳的機會，因為 2023 年、2024 年和 2025 年到期的五年期債券要么需要出售，要么需要再融資。

A lot of transaction activity potential, it sounds like. Willy, new clients, that's been a focus of W&D, just trying to broaden out your brand and more touch points with the institutional multifamily community. When you look at your third quarter transactions, do you have any data as to on those transactions, can you estimate how many of those were with new clients to WD or repeat borrowers?

聽起來交易活動潛力很大。Willy，新客戶一直是 W&D 的重點，我們正努力拓展品牌，並與機構多戶住宅社區建立更多聯繫。查看第三季的交易情況時，您是否有關於這些交易的數據？您能否估算其中有多少是新客戶到 WD 的交易，又有多少是老客戶的交易？

Yeah. I cited that in my script, Steve, and I don't have the exact data point in front of me, but I think it's 14% were new clients to Walker & Dunlop and 60-some-odd percent were new loans to Walker & Dunlop. So the new loans are pieces of business with an existing Walker & Dunlop client, just a loan that one of our competitor firms had done that we refinanced or financed the acquisition for our client. So over 60% is new product to Walker & Dunlop. And then totally new clients, I think was it 14%?

是的。史蒂夫，我在我的腳本中引用了這一點，我手頭上沒有確切的數據點，但我認為其中 14% 是 Walker & Dunlop 的新客戶，60% 左右是 Walker & Dunlop 的新貸款。所以，這些新貸款是與沃克和鄧洛普現有客戶開展的業務，只是我們競爭對手公司之前提供的一筆貸款，我們為我們的客戶進行了再融資或收購融資。因此，超過 60% 的產品是 Walker & Dunlop 的新產品。然後是全新的客戶，我記得好像是 14% 吧？

16%.

16%。

16%, yeah. 16% were new clients to Walker & Dunlop. And so look, as you know, Steve, we operate in an exceedingly competitive market. We have great competitor firms that have wide distribution networks and in some cases, seemingly a banker and broker on every corner. And so the opportunity for W&D is to go and attract new clients and bring new loans and new sales opportunities to our platform.

沒錯，16%。 16%是沃克和鄧洛普公司的新客戶。所以你看，史蒂夫，我們身處在一個競爭極為激烈的市場。我們有一些強大的競爭對手，他們擁有廣泛的分銷網絡，在某些情況下，似乎每個街角都有銀行家和經紀人。因此，W&D 的機會​​在於吸引新客戶，為我們的平台帶來新的貸款和新的銷售機會。

And as our Q3 numbers show, we did just that. And I would also say, as our growth numbers show, we are outstripping a number of our competitor firms as it relates to growth in our capital markets executions, from aggregate volume numbers.

正如我們第三季的業績所示，我們確實做到了這一點。而且，正如我們的成長數據所示，就資本市場交易執行總量而言，我們在成長方面已經超越了許多競爭對手公司。

Just one final thing for me, Willy, big picture. The S&P is up 16% or so year-to-date 2025. You're putting up good numbers, but W&D share is down about 18% year-to-date '25. What do you think people are missing? I mean this is a strong report.

威利，我還有最後一件事要說，是關於大局的。截至2025年，標普500指數今年以來上漲了約16%。你們的業績不錯，但截至 2025 年，W&D 的市佔率下降了約 18%。你認為人們錯過了什麼？我的意思是，這是一份很有說服力的報告。

Rates are headed down, not up, that generally is a good thing for real estate-related firms. I know you're probably frustrated by it, but I don't see the negative bear case for W&D shares. I think my notes reflect that. So I'm not saying anything that's not out there on the street. But it just seems to be a disconnect between the way your shares are trading and where the market is and where the rate outlook is.

利率呈下降趨勢，而不是上升趨勢，這對房地產相關公司來說通常是一件好事。我知道你可能對此感到沮喪，但我看不出看跌 W&D 股票的理由。我認為我的筆記反映了這一點。所以，我說的這些話，街頭巷尾都在流傳。但這似乎只是你的股票交易方式與市場現狀和利率前景之間存在著脫節。

So Steve, a couple of things. One, and clearly, as the largest individual shareholder in Walker & Dunlop, I take your comments very seriously. Two, as having been fortunate enough to be CEO of this company for all 15 years of its public life, I've been around this too long to let it frustrate me and really just focusing on what we need to do to execute as a company.

史蒂夫，有幾件事。首先，身為沃克和鄧祿普公司最大的個人股東，我非常重視您的評論。第二，我有幸擔任這家公司 15 年上市期間的首席執行官，我對這家公司了解太久了，不會讓它讓我感到沮喪，而是專注於我們作為一家公司需要做的事情。

Third thing I would say is, look, Q1 of 2025, given where rates went at the end of 2024, was a very slow start to the year. As I hope investors can see, we have been building momentum in Q2 into Q3.

第三點我想說的是，你看，考慮到 2024 年底的利率走勢，2025 年第一季是一個非常緩慢的開局。我希望投資者能夠看到，我們在第二季到第三季的發展勢頭良好。

And Greg's and my commentary talk about a forward look on Q4 that looks quite good.

我和格雷格的評論都談到了對第四季的展望，看起來相當不錯。

And I think that '26 is going to present to us and all of our competitor firms a very big opportunity to continue to grow in the capital markets area. The fourth thing I'd say, Steve, is that, look, some of our big competitor firms have steady Eddie real estate services businesses that are not as cyclical as the capital markets businesses are and have provided them with significant ballast in their financial performance for '23 and '24 and into 2025. But those businesses are not nearly as high growth as the real estate capital markets are.

我認為，2026 年將為我們以及所有競爭對手公司帶來在資本市場領域繼續發展的巨大機會。史蒂夫，我想說的第四點是，你看，我們的一些大型競爭對手公司擁有穩定的房地產服務業務，這些業務不像資本市場業務那樣具有周期性，並為它們在 2023 年和 2024 年以及 2025 年的財務業績提供了重要的支撐。但這些產業的成長速度遠不及房地產資本市場。

And so if you look at some of our larger scale competitor firms, they've done very well as capital markets transaction volumes have been way down in '23 and '24 and started to come back in '25. We are a real estate capital markets pure play for all practical purposes. And we better get the benefit of the growth that we are seeing coming to us in '26 and '27 as the capital markets reflate.

因此，如果你看看我們的一些規模較大的競爭對手公司，你會發現它們做得非常好，因為資本市場交易量在 2023 年和 2024 年大幅下降，並在 2025 年開始回升。從實際意義上講，我們是一家純粹的房地產資本市場公司。我們最好能從2026年和2027年資本市場復甦帶來的成長中獲益。

And that's on us to go and perform and put up the numbers. And so I appreciate you pointing out where we stand, and I also appreciate the positive outlook you have on W&D and our forward performance.

接下來就看我們怎麼發揮，拿出成績了。因此，我感謝您指出我們所處的境地，也感謝您對 W&D 及其未來發展前景的正面看法。

But we also know it's up to us to go address the market and put up the numbers going forward to make it so that our investors are benefiting from that growth and from that performance.

但我們也知道，我們有責任去開拓市場，並在未來取得更好的業績，從而使我們的投資者能夠從這種成長和業績中受益。

Thanks. I appreciate the comments this morning.

謝謝。感謝大家今天早上的評論。

Thank you, Steve.

謝謝你，史蒂夫。

At this time, there are no further questions. I will now turn the call back to Willy for any additional or closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題了。現在我將把電話轉回給威利，讓他補充或作總結發言。

I just want to thank everyone for joining us this morning. Thank the W&D for a fantastic Q3. And I wish everyone a very nice day and end of the week.

我只想感謝今天早上所有到場的各位。感謝W&D在第三季的優異成績。祝大家今天和週末愉快！

Thank you very much, operator.

非常感謝接線生。

Thank you. This does conclude today's conference. We thank you for your participation.

謝謝。今天的會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。