Viavi Solutions Inc (VIAV) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Well, good day, everyone and welcome to the Viavi Solutions fiscal second-quarter 2025 earnings call. Just a reminder. This call is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 Viavi Solutions 2025 財年第二季財報電話會議。提醒一下。本次通話正在錄音。

I would now like to hand the call over to Ms. Vibhuti Nayar. Please go ahead, ma'am.

現在我將把電話交給維布蒂·納亞爾女士。請便，女士。

Thank you, Lisa. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Viavi Solutions fiscal second quarter 2025 earnings call. My name is Vibhuti Nayar, Head of Investor Relations for Viavi Solutions. With me on today's call is Oleg Khaykin, our President and CEO; and Ilan Daskal, our CFO.

謝謝你，麗莎。各位下午好，歡迎參加 Viavi Solutions 2025 財年第二季財報電話會議。我叫 Vibhuti Nayar，是 Viavi Solutions 的投資人關係主管。今天和我一起參加電話會議的還有我們的總裁兼執行長 Oleg Khaykin，以及我們的財務長 Ilan Daskal。

Please note, this call will include forward-looking statements about the company's financial performance. These statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from our current expectations and estimations.

請注意，本次電話會議將包含有關本公司財務表現的前瞻性陳述。這些聲明存在風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與我們目前的預期和估計有重大差異。

We encourage you to review our most recent annual report and SEC filings, particularly the risk factors described in those filings. The forward-looking statements, including guidance that we provide during this call are valid only as of today. Viavi undertakes no obligation to update these statements.

我們建議您查閱我們最新的年度報告和提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件，特別是這些文件中所述的風險因素。本次電話會議中提供的前瞻性聲明（包括指導意見）僅截至今日有效。Viavi不承擔更新這些聲明的義務。

Please also note that unless we state otherwise, all results discussed on this call, except revenue, are non-GAAP. We reconcile these non-GAAP results to our preliminary GAAP financials and discuss their usefulness and limitations in today's earnings release. The release as well as our supplemental earnings slides, which include historical financial tables, are available on Viavi's website at www.investor.viavisolutions.com.

另請注意，除非另有說明，本次電話會議討論的所有結果（收入除外）均為非GAAP結果。我們在今天的獲利報告中將這些非GAAP結果與我們的初步GAAP財務數據進行核對，並討論它們的用途和局限性。新聞稿以及我們的補充收益幻燈片（包括歷史財務表格）可在 Viavi 的網站 www.investor.viavisolutions.com 上找到。

Finally, we are recording today's call, and we will make the recording available on our website by 4:30 PM Pacific Time this evening.

最後，我們將錄製今天的電話會議，並將於太平洋時間今晚下午 4:30 之前在我們的網站上提供錄音。

With that, I would like to turn the call over to Ilan. Ilan?

接下來，我想把電話交給伊蘭。伊蘭？

Thank you, Vibhuti. Good afternoon, everyone. Now I would like to review the results of the second quarter of fiscal year 2025. Net revenue for the quarter was $270.8 million, which is above the high end of our guidance range of $255 million to $265 million. Revenue was up 13.7% sequentially and on a year over year basis was up 6.4%.

謝謝你，維布蒂。大家下午好。現在我想回顧一下2025財年第二季的業績。本季淨收入為 2.708 億美元，高於我們先前預測的 2.55 億美元至 2.65 億美元區間的上限。營收季增 13.7%，年增 6.4%。

Operating margin for the second fiscal quarter was 14.9%, significantly above the high end of our guidance range of 11.4% to 13.4%. Operating margin increased 490 basis points from the prior quarter and on a year over year basis was up 170 basis points.

第二財季的營業利潤率為 14.9%，遠高於我們先前預測的 11.4% 至 13.4% 的上限。營業利益率較上一季成長 490 個基點，較上年同期成長 170 個基點。

EPS at $0.13 was also above the high end of our guidance range of $0.09 to $0.11 and was up $0.07 sequentially. On a year over year basis, EPS was up $0.02.

每股收益為 0.13 美元，也高於我們先前預測的 0.09 美元至 0.11 美元區間的上限，並且比上一季增長了 0.07 美元。與去年同期相比，每股收益成長了 0.02 美元。

Moving on to our Q2 results by business segment. NSE revenue for the second fiscal quarter came in at $199.9 million, which was above the high end of our guidance range of $184 million to $192 million. This was mainly driven by strong order pace from service providers and NEMs for field instruments in addition to the recovery across many of our product segments. On a year over year basis, NSE revenue was up 11.3%.

接下來，我們來看看以業務部門劃分的第二季業績。NSE 第二財季的營收為 1.999 億美元，高於我們先前預測的 1.84 億美元至 1.92 億美元區間的上限。這主要得益於服務提供者和NEM對現場儀器的強勁訂單，以及我們許多產品領域的復甦。與去年同期相比，NSE 收入成長了 11.3%。

NE revenue for the quarter was $179 million, which is up 15.1% year over year as a result of strong demand by service providers and NEMs for both lab and field instruments.

由於服務提供者和NEM對實驗室和現場儀器的強勁需求，NE本季營收為1.79億美元，年增15.1%。

SE revenue was $20.9 million and declined 13.3% from the same period last year, driven mainly by enterprise customers' conservative spend.

SE 的收入為 2,090 萬美元，比去年同期下降了 13.3%，主要原因是企業客戶的支出較為保守。

NSE gross margin for the quarter was 64.8%, which is 140 basis points higher on a year over year basis. NE gross margin was 64.5%, which is an increase of 200 basis points from the same period last year as a result of higher volume and product mix. SE gross margin was 67.5%, which is a decrease of 140 basis points from the same period last year due to lower revenue.

NSE本季毛利率為64.8%，較上年同期成長140個基點。由於銷售量和產品組合的增加，NE 的毛利率為 64.5%，比去年同期成長了 200 個基點。由於收入下降，SE 的毛利率為 67.5%，比去年同期下降了 140 個基點。

NSE's operating margin for the quarter was 8.7%, which is a 510 basis point increase on a year over year basis and came in significantly above our guidance range of 3.8% to 5.8% driven by higher gross margin fall through.

NSE本季的營業利潤率為8.7%，年增510個基點，遠高於我們先前3.8%至5.8%的預期範圍，主要得益於毛利率的大幅下降。

OSP revenue for the second fiscal quarter came in at $70.9 million, which is slightly below the low end of our guidance range of $71 million to $73 million. On a year over year basis, revenue was down 5.3%, primarily due to weaker demand for 3D sensing products.

第二財季 OSP 營收為 7,090 萬美元，略低於我們先前預測的 7,100 萬美元至 7,300 萬美元的下限。與去年同期相比，營收下降了 5.3%，主要原因是 3D 感測產品的需求疲軟。

OSP gross margin was 50.6%, down 150 basis points from the same period last year and was primarily driven by lower volume and product mix. OSP's operating margin was 32.4%, which is a decrease of 400 basis points on a year over year basis as a result of lower gross margin fall-through.

OSP毛利率為50.6%，較去年同期下降150個基點，主要原因是銷售量和產品組合下降。由於毛利率下降，OSP 的營業利潤率為 32.4%，年減 400 個基點。

Moving on to the balance sheet and cash flow. Total cash and short-term investments at the end of Q2 was $512.8 million compared to $497.9 million in the first quarter of fiscal 2025. Cash flow from operating activities for the quarter was $44.7 million versus $20.4 million in the same period last year.

接下來來看資產負債表和現金流量表。截至第二季末，現金及短期投資總額為 5.128 億美元，而 2025 財年第一季為 4.979 億美元。本季經營活動產生的現金流量為 4,470 萬美元，而去年同期為 2,040 萬美元。

CapEx for the quarter was $8.2 million versus $5.8 million in the same period last year. During the quarter, we did not purchase any shares of our stock as we prioritized our capital allocation towards M&A with the acquisition of Inertial Labs.

本季資本支出為 820 萬美元，而去年同期為 580 萬美元。本季我們沒有購買任何公司股票，因為我們優先將資本配置用於併購，收購了 Inertial Labs。

Fully diluted share count for the quarter was 224.8 million shares, up from 223.5 million shares in the prior year and versus 224 million shares in our guidance for the second fiscal quarter.

本季完全稀釋後的股份數量為 2.248 億股，高於去年同期的 2.235 億股，也高於我們對第二財季的預期 2.24 億股。

Moving on to our third fiscal quarter guidance. For NSE, we are expecting a stronger seasonality trend across most segments. For OSP, we expect softer demand for 3D sensing products. We anticipate demand for anti-counterfeiting products to start stabilizing as the end customers continue to work down their inventories.

接下來是我們的第三財季業績預期。對於印度國家證券交易所（NSE），我們預計大多數板塊的季節性趨勢將更加明顯。對於 OSP 而言，我們預計對 3D 感測產品的需求將有所疲軟。我們預計，隨著終端客戶繼續減少庫存，對防偽產品的需求將開始趨於穩定。

For the third fiscal quarter of 2025, we expect revenue in the range of $276 million and $288 million. Operating margin is expected to be about 14% plus or minus 100 basis points and EPS to be between $0.10 and $0.13. We expect NSE revenue to be approximately $207 million, plus or minus $5 million, with an operating margin of 7% plus or minus 100 basis points.

我們預計 2025 年第三財季的營收將在 2.76 億至 2.88 億美元之間。預計營業利潤率約14%，上下浮動100個基點；每股收益預計介於0.10美元至0.13美元之間。我們預計NSE的收入約為2.07億美元，上下浮動500萬美元，營業利潤率為7%，上下浮動100個基點。

Our revenue guidance for NSE includes a high single-digit million from Inertial Labs, which is in line with our previous communication of $50 million annual revenue run rate. OSP revenue is expected to be approximately $75 million, plus or minus $1 million, with an operating margin of 33%, plus or minus 100 basis points.

我們對 NSE 的收入預期包括 Inertial Labs 帶來的數百萬美元的收入，這與我們先前公佈的 5,000 萬美元年收入運行率一致。OSP 收入預計約 7,500 萬美元，上下浮動 100 萬美元，營業利潤率為 33%，上下浮動 100 個基點。

Our tax expenses for the third quarter are expected to be around $9 million, plus or minus $500,000, as a result of jurisdictional mix. We expect other income and expenses to reflect a higher net expense of approximately $4.2 million as a result of lower interest on cash on hand used for the Inertial Labs transaction. Lastly, the share count is expected to be around 226.1 million shares.

由於不同司法管轄區的組合，我們預計第三季的稅收支出約為 900 萬美元，上下浮動 50 萬美元。由於用於 Inertial Labs 交易的現金利息減少，我們預計其他收入和支出將反映淨支出增加約 420 萬美元。最後，預計股份總數約 2.261 億股。

With that, I will turn the call over to Oleg. Oleg?

接下來，我將把電話交給奧列格。奧列格？

Thank you, Ilan. During the December quarter, our revenue and EPS came above the higher end of our guidance range. As we mentioned in prior call, many of NSE traditional end markets have stabilized and are showing signs of gradual recovery as we enter calendar '25.

謝謝你，伊蘭。在 12 月季度，我們的營收和每股盈餘均高於我們預期範圍的上限。正如我們在先前的電話會議中所提到的，隨著我們進入 2025 年，NSE 的許多傳統終端市場已經趨於穩定，並顯示出逐步復甦的跡象。

Now let's look in more detail at each of our businesses, starting with NSE. NSE revenue in fiscal Q2 grew year over year, driven by recovery in growth across many of our product segments. We expect this momentum to continue through the remainder of fiscal '25. A bit more color on individual product segments.

現在讓我們更詳細地了解我們的每項業務，首先從NSE開始。NSE 2 財年營收年增，這主要得益於我們許多產品領域的成長復甦。我們預計這一勢頭將持續到 2025 財年剩餘時間。對各個產品細分市場進行更詳細的介紹。

Fiber field saw solid demand from service providers in NEMs, particularly in fiber monitoring systems in support of fiber network build-out. We expect this momentum to continue. As we mentioned in our prior call, we are also seeing signs of stabilization and green shoots in our wireless business, driven mostly by the resumption of 5G deployment in North America. We expect the gradual recovery to continue during the first half of calendar '25.

光纖領域在網路設備製造商 (NEM) 中獲得了強勁的需求，尤其是在支援光纖網路建置的光纖監控系統方面。我們預計這種勢頭將會持續下去。正如我們在先前的電話會議中提到的，我們的無線業務也出現了穩定和復甦的跡象，這主要得益於北美地區 5G 部署的恢復。我們預計這種逐步復甦的趨勢將在2025年上半年持續。

Fiber, lab and production demand was up significantly in the December quarter, driven by growth in lab, fiber and optical transport. We also shipped our first 1.6 terabit fiber product and saw continued demand for our 800-gig products, which should drive significant growth for the remainder of fiscal '25.

受實驗室、光纖和光傳輸業務成長的推動，12 月當季光纖、實驗室和生產需求大幅成長。我們也交付了首款 1.6 太比特光纖產品，並看到市場對我們的 800 千兆產品持續需求，這應該會在 2025 財年剩餘時間內推動顯著成長。

Our aerospace and defense business segment continued its robust year-on-year growth, driven by growth in our mission-critical products, including communications, avionics and PNT, which stands for positioning, navigation and timing.

我們的航空航太和國防業務部門持續保持強勁的同比增長，這主要得益於我們關鍵任務產品的成長，包括通訊、航空電子設備和 PNT（定位、導航和授時）產品。

Earlier this week, we closed the acquisition of Inertial Labs, which strengthens Viavi's position in the PNT space by complementing our industry-leading resilient timing technology with positioning and navigation solutions. Our expanded PNT portfolio positions us well in the high-growth markets such as alternative navigation and autonomous air, land and sea vehicles.

本週早些時候，我們完成了對 Inertial Labs 的收購，這將透過定位和導航解決方案來補充我們領先業界的彈性授時技術，從而加強 Viavi 在 PNT 領域的地位。我們擴展後的 PNT 產品組合使我們在高成長市場中佔據有利地位，例如替代導航和自主空中、陸地和海上車輛。

Lastly, SE was down year on year, primarily driven by lower enterprise customer spend. Looking ahead for NSE, we expect a seasonally stronger Q3 across the broad base of our product portfolio, with continued recovery momentum for the remainder of fiscal '25.

最後，SE較去年同期下降，主要原因是企業客戶支出減少。展望NSE的未來，我們預計第三季我們廣泛的產品組合將出現季節性的強勁成長，並在2025財年剩餘時間內保持持續的復甦勢頭。

Now turning to OSP. During the fiscal second quarter, OSP declined on a year over year basis, primarily due to lower demand for 3D sensing products. We expect fiscal Q3 to be roughly flat year over year, characterized by seasonally weaker 3D sensing. We continue to monitor inventory levels of anti-counterfeiting products. And we currently expect to reach demand-supply equilibrium within the next two quarters.

現在轉向OSP。在第二財季，OSP年減，主要原因是3D感測產品的需求下降。我們預計第三財季業績與去年同期基本持平，其特點是 3D 感測技術季節性疲軟。我們持續監控防偽產品的庫存水準。我們目前預計將在未來兩個季度內達到供需平衡。

To summarize our near-term outlook, we expect Q3 to be seasonally stronger and recover momentum to continue through the rest of fiscal '25.

總結我們的近期展望，我們預計第三季將呈現季節性強勢成長，復甦動能將持續到 2025 財年剩餘時間。

In conclusion, I would like to welcome employees of Inertial Labs to Viavi and thank the Viavi team for managing through the challenging environment over the past two years. Lastly, I would like to thank our customers and shareholders for their continued support.

最後，我謹代表 Viavi，歡迎 Inertial Labs 的員工加入 Viavi，並感謝 Viavi 團隊在過去兩年克服重重挑戰所取得的成就。最後，我要感謝我們的客戶和股東們一直以來的支持。

With that, I will now turn it back to the operator for the Q&A.

接下來，我將把問答環節交還給接線員。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Ruben Roy, Stifel.

魯本·羅伊，斯蒂費爾。

Thank you for letting me ask some questions. Oleg, nice to see the turn as you sort of highlighted on the last call, I guess, if we could drill down into some of the moving parts here, starting with the field demand for fiber monitoring. Can you talk a little bit about that? Is that still mostly telco service providers? Or are you starting to see some hyperscalers get involved with fiber monitoring?

謝謝您允許我提問。奧列格，很高興看到你上次通話中提到的那種轉變，我想，如果我們能深入探討一下這裡的一些動態因素，就從現場對光纖監測的需求開始吧。能稍微談談這方面嗎？那主要還是電信服務供應商嗎？或者您開始看到一些超大規模資料中心營運商參與光纖監測領域？

Well, it's a combination. I mean, clearly, on a broad base, it's the telcos because as they build out their fiber networks, I mean, it's just really the volumes game, right? Because there are so many telcos and so many of them are building out fiber, but also there is cable providers, but they're also building out fiber.

嗯，這是兩者的結合。我的意思是，很明顯，從整體來看，電信公司才是贏家，因為隨著他們建立光纖網絡，這實際上就是一場規模之戰，對吧？因為電信公司很多，而且很多公司都在建造光纖網絡，但有線電視供應商也在建造光纖網路。

So clearly, that's driving. But the new segment emerging is really the hyperscalers who are kind of not your father's data center operators, they're actually putting very sophisticated fiber monitoring interfaces onto their data centers to monitor all the fiber going in and going out of their network.

所以很明顯，那就是駕駛。但真正興起的新興領域是超大規模數據中心運營商，他們與你父親那一代的數據中心運營商有所不同，他們實際上在其數據中心部署了非常複雜的光纖監控接口，以監控所有進出其網絡的光纖。

And part of it is really protecting the billions of dollars they are putting into those data centers and making sure that the connectivity, latency and performance of their fiber interconnect is on par with the performance inside the data center. And that is a new phenomenon because traditionally, data center operators really didn't care, they just took whatever the connection they got.

其中一部分原因是為了保護他們投入這些資料中心的數十億美元，並確保其光纖互連的連接性、延遲和效能與資料中心內部的效能保持一致。這是一個新現象，因為傳統上，資料中心運營商並不在乎連接質量，他們只是接受他們能獲得的任何連接。

And today, I would say the hyperscalers have gotten extremely well educated on the performance and strength and weaknesses of the traditional fiber connections they've been getting and they're taking it -- they're taking matter into their own hands and actually paying and deploying this thing, so they can hold any of their service providers accountable for the service level agreements that they are signing with them.

如今，我認為超大規模資料中心營運商已經非常清楚地了解了他們一直以來使用的傳統光纖連接的性能、優勢和劣勢，他們正在採取行動——他們正在自己掌控局面，實際付費並部署這項技術，這樣他們就可以要求任何服務提供者履行與他們簽訂的服務等級協議。

Interesting. Thank you. And then on the lab side, congrats on the 1.6T shipment. But if we look at 800 gig, can you talk about your visibility there? Clearly, you're talking about momentum through the end of fiscal '25. But kind of how you're thinking about that business, the 800 gig shipments throughout the rest of the calendar year? And can you give us a little bit of an idea of how big you think that could get as part of the NE business?

有趣的。謝謝。另外，實驗室方面，恭喜你們完成了 1.6 噸的出貨量。但如果我們看看 800 G 平台，您能談談您在那裡的曝光度嗎？顯然，你指的是 2025 財年末的發展動能。但您是如何考慮這筆業務的呢？也就是今年剩餘時間那 800 GB 的出貨量？您能否大致介紹一下，您認為作為東北地區業務的一部分，它最終會發展到多大規模？

Well, the reason I say fiscal because we generally don't like to go beyond one, at most two quarters. I mean clearly, 800 gig is the workhorse that everybody is buying today and the volume is growing pretty rapidly. 1.6 terabit is really what is entering the R&D labs that semis, NEMs and module developers. And that's probably going to be hitting production maybe towards the end of the calendar year.

之所以說是財政年度，是因為我們通常不喜歡超過一個季度，最多兩個季度。很明顯，800G是目前大家都在購買的主力容量，而且銷售成長非常迅速。 1.6Tb才是半導體、NEM和模組開發商真正投入研發的容量。而這很可能要等到今年底才能投入生產。

So we think the 800 gig will be the volume driver for this year, calendar year and the 1.6 starting to maybe gain momentum towards the end. And there's still 400 gig shipping as well. So -- and that's across the Board, I'd say, traditional semis module developers and NEMs.

因此，我們認為 800 GB 將是今年銷量的主要驅動力，而 1.6 GB 可能會在年底開始獲得成長動能。而且還有 400 GB 的貨物要運送。所以——而且我認為這種情況普遍存在，包括傳統半導體模組開發商和NEM廠商。

And then on top of it, we are seeing very strong demand from module builders, the factories, production testing in Asia that is largely in support of the kind of, I'd say, 400 gig and 800 gig per dumpling actually, growing 800 gig module demand to support the AI data center infrastructure.

此外，我們也看到來自模組製造商、工廠以及亞洲生產測試的強勁需求，這主要是為了支援每個模組 400 Gi 和 800 Gi 的容量，實際上，為了支援人工智慧資料中心基礎設施，對 800 Gi 模組的需求正在不斷增長。

Great. Thank you. Oleg, if I could just sneak one in for Ilan on the comment around capital allocation and M&A with the Inertial acquisition and successful closure. Maybe you can just give us an update on what your appetite for further M&A might be going forward? Is there still room for additional M&A as you look out into calendar '25? Or how are you thinking about capital allocation here?

偉大的。謝謝。奧列格，如果我能替伊蘭補充一句關於資本配置和併購的評論，關於 Inertial 的收購和成功完成，那就太好了。您能否簡單介紹一下您未來在併購方面的意願？展望2025年，是否還有併購的空間？或者，您是如何考慮這裡的資金配置的？

Yeah. Thanks, Ruben, for the question. So obviously, M&A continues to be part of our overall capital allocation model. We believe that we have more bandwidth to kind of raise additional funding if we kind of find the right opportunity for us.

是的。謝謝魯本的提問。顯然，併購仍然是我們整體資本配置模式的一部分。我們相信，如果我們能找到合適的機遇，我們就有能力籌集更多資金。

We are very kind of focused in terms of our EPS growth for the short, mid and long term, and that's a major driver for us in our decision-making process. And it's less about the funding, more about the specific opportunity and the EPS specifically.

我們非常關注短期、中期和長期的每股盈餘成長，這是我們決策過程中的重要驅動因素。而且，這與其說是資金問題，不如說是具體的機會和每股盈餘的問題。

Yeah. And I'd say if we look at our M&A potential target funnel, nobody is in there. There is a bunch of PowerPoint presentations. All of the deals that we are considering and evaluating are highly profitable with the margin profile that is accretive to our overall thing.

是的。我想說，如果我們看一下我們潛在的併購目標管道，就會發現裡面沒有目標。這裡有很多PPT簡報。我們正在考慮和評估的所有交易都利潤豐厚，利潤率也有利於我們的整體發展。

Clearly, in the end, the price, there's got to be the right price because one thing we are very cognizant is the -- we have multiple options how to deploy our cash, and we believe in paying the right price for the right deal.

顯然，最終價格必須合適，因為我們非常清楚的一點是——我們有多種方式來部署我們的資金，我們相信應該為合適的交易支付合適的價格。

Great. Thanks guys.

偉大的。謝謝各位。

Thanks, Ruben.

謝謝你，魯本。

Andrew Spinola, UBS.

瑞銀集團的安德魯·斯皮諾拉。

All right. Thank you. I was wondering if we could talk about the upside in the quarter and wondering if -- when you look at it, how much of it came from your cyclical uptick in your SP businesses? And I'm talking specifically about NSE versus maybe how much of the contribution came from sort of your secular growth drivers in some of the other businesses?

好的。謝謝。我想問我們能否談談本季的成長情況，以及－從您的角度來看，其中有多少成長來自於SP業務的週期性成長？我指的是NSE的具體貢獻，以及你在其他一些業務中，長期成長動力所做出的貢獻有多少？

Well, so I mean, it's a good question, Andrew. So I mean, the -- I would say, maybe -- I would say, probably a third to half kind of came in from the kind of tide that rises all the boats, the service provider started to come back, crossing the Ts, dotting the Is, the fiber spend.

嗯，我的意思是，安德魯，你問得好。所以我的意思是，——我會說，也許——我會說，大概有三分之一到一半的資金來自那種帶動所有船隻上漲的浪潮，服務提供者開始回歸，完善細節，光纖支出。

We actually saw very interesting wise, the green shoot in wireless was buying wireless field instruments, which basically tells you right away, somebody is planning to start doing major 5G deployment restart in the next two quarters.

我們看到了一個非常有趣的跡象，無線領域的復甦跡像是購買無線現場儀器，這基本上立即表明，有人計劃在接下來的兩個季度開始大規模重啟 5G 部署。

So that is what I would call a gradual recovery and continued recovery. And the rest came really from our diversification efforts into fiber lab and production, the aerospace and defense segments where we've seen really good revenue growth and a substantial margin expansion that the volume was driven in both of those segments.

所以，這就是我所說的逐步恢復和持續恢復。其餘的成長其實來自我們在光纖實驗室和生產、航空航太和國防領域的多元化努力，我們在這些領域都看到了非常好的收入成長和利潤率的大幅擴張，銷售成長正是由這兩個領域的成長所驅動的。

Got it. And I guess just a follow-on to that. I think I'm trying to understand, obviously, the AI demand is driving some pretty substantial growth rates in some of the end markets that you serve. I'm trying to correlate that with your fiber lab business to try to understand what's the potential upside in that business?

知道了。我想這只是那件事的後續。顯然，我想了解的是，人工智慧的需求正在推動你們所服務的某些終端市場出現相當可觀的成長率。我想把這一點與你的光纖實驗室業務聯繫起來，以了解該業務的潛在成長空間是什麼？

How much of that 50% of your growth in this quarter that came from secular came from fiber lab? And just anything you can do to help me understand, how big that business is that's exposed to maybe 30%, 40% growth rates? And how big can it get?

本季你們50%的成長來自世俗成長，其中有多少來自Fiber Lab？您能否幫我了解一下，這家成長率可能達到 30% 到 40% 的企業究竟有多大？它能長多大？

Well, so there's two segments to that business. One is we sell advanced test equipment to the developers. So if you are developing next-generation chipsets or processor, the 400, 800 gig, 1.6 terabit bandwidth, you need those tools to aid you in the development and debugging. If you're developing modules, you need those -- that equipment. And if you're developing systems, you need that equipment.

嗯，這項業務分為兩個部分。一是我們向開發商銷售先進的測試設備。因此，如果您正在開發下一代晶片組或處理器，頻寬達到 400、800 GB、1.6 Tb，您需要這些工具來幫助您進行開發和除錯。如果你要開發模組，你就需要那些設備。如果你正在開發系統，你就需要這些設備。

And then there is a whole other market. So I'd say this one, I mean it's growing -- I mean I wouldn't be surprised if it doubles or triples over the next three to four years because what's different here is when the telecoms were driving migration node to node. It would be about six years -- six to eight years between going, let's say, 100 gig to 400 gig, 400 gig to 800 gig.

此外，還有另一個大市場。所以我覺得這個領域正在發展——我的意思是，如果它在未來三到四年內翻倍或兩番，我不會感到驚訝，因為這裡不同的是，以前電信公司推動的是節點到節點的遷移。從 100 GB 到 400 GB，再從 400 GB 到 800 GB，大約需要六到八年時間。

Now today, the really evolution of technology nodes is not driven by telecom, it's driven by datacom. So as a result, you're seeing every two, three years, there is a new technology node. So your product cycles are just as big and they're happening much faster. So seeing that business doubling, tripling is fairly realistic.

如今，科技節點的真正演進並非由電信驅動，而是由資料通訊驅動。因此，你會看到每隔兩三年就會出現一個新的技術節點。所以你們的產品週期同樣很長，而且週期變化得更快。因此，業務翻倍、三倍是相當現實的。

And then there is a whole other part is the production piece. So again, when you were doing telecom, you only deployed so many modules. Well, when you're putting fiber optic modules in the data centers, you have orders of magnitude more modules. So the demand for spectrum analyzer, power meters and fiber, the inspection, all these kind of things, that is purely a function of how many units need to be shipped.

然後還有另一大部分，就是製作環節。所以，當你做電信業務時，你只能部署有限數量的模組。嗯，當你在資料中心部署光纖模組時，模組的數量要多出幾個數量級。因此，對頻譜分析儀、功率計和光纖、檢測等各種設備的需求，完全取決於需要出貨多少台設備。

And what was interesting is, when it was a 400 gig, we did not see much demand because a lot of it was bought by the -- or installed by telecom service providers. And when their business tanked about two years ago, all of that capacity shifted to hyperscalers.

有趣的是，當容量為 400 G 時，我們並沒有看到太多的需求，因為很多都被電信服務供應商購買或安裝。大約兩年前，當他們的業務崩潰時，所有這些產能都轉移到了超大規模資料中心。

Well, as you know, bringing out 800 gig and then over the -- just over the horizon 1.6 terabits, well, it's the data center operators who are driving the deployment of that production capacity. And that's happening at a much faster turnover pace instead of like kind of a six year horizon, over two, three year horizon. So again, there is a doubling or tripling -- I mean, whichever the volume growth you're going to see.

如您所知，800 Gb 的容量即將到來，而 1.6 Tb 的容量也即將到來，正是資料中心營運商推動了這些生產能力的部署。而這種情況的周轉速度比以往快得多，不再像以前那樣需要六年時間，而是只需兩三年。所以，銷量又會翻倍或兩番——我的意思是，不管你會看到哪種銷量成長。

So we are very positive on that business. And then the third element here, traditionally, we played in the kind of Layer 1, Layer 0. And now we're going to Layer 2 to Layer 7. So we're also expanding the market that we're addressing within all of these applications. So we feel that business unit will be a major growth driver for us in years to come.

所以我們對這項業務非常樂觀。然後，這裡的第三個要素，傳統上，我們玩的是第 1 層、第 0 層之類的東西。現在我們要進入第 2 層到第 7 層。因此，我們也在擴大所有這些應用所面向的市場。因此我們認為，該業務部門將在未來幾年成為我們主要的成長動力。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Ryan Koontz, Needham & Company.

Ryan Koontz，Needham & Company。

Great, thanks and terrific color on different product areas, Oleg. I wanted to drill down on wireless if we could. This is a pretty quick rebound here, and we've heard some -- recently some pretty optimistic signals from Ericsson, Nokia as well that are pretty aligned.

太好了，謝謝，Oleg，不同產品區域的色彩搭配非常棒。我想盡可能深入研究無線技術。這是一次相當迅速的反彈，而且我們最近也聽到了一些來自愛立信和諾基亞的非常樂觀的信號，這些信號也相當一致。

But if you drill down there, do you think in terms of the operators, is this driven by capacity additions via small cells or rebanding of spectrum? Or is it new services around the 5G core? Anything you can share there on the wireless front?

但如果你深入分析，從營運商的角度來看，這是由透過小型基地台增加容量還是頻譜重新劃分所驅動的嗎？或者，它是圍繞 5G 核心網的新服務？關於無線網路方面，有什麼可以分享的嗎？

So I mean -- so actually that correlates very well with the -- what you heard from Ericsson and so on. But before you -- so you get maybe orders or indication that there is going to be a restart of 5G deployment. What we saw, I mean, is the placement for field instruments. So that's usually the first thing you do because you got to equip all of your techs with equipment before you kick off the campaign.

所以我的意思是——實際上這與你從愛立信等那裡聽到的內容非常吻合。但在此之前——你可能會收到命令或指示，表明 5G 部署將重新啟動。我們看到的是現場儀器的放置位置。所以這通常是你首先要做的事情，因為在開始戰役之前，你必須為所有技術人員配備裝備。

And what I believe is happening, it's really all about cost, cost, cost, and it's really accelerating conversion of a 4G spectrum to 5G spectrum because it's our understanding you're seeing anywhere between 90% to 80% drop in cost per bit when you convert the spectrum. And if you want to grow the available bandwidth to your customer base, one of the cheapest things to do is just accelerate conversion of 4G into 5G.

我認為現在發生的一切，其實都與成本、成本、成本有關，這確實加速了 4G 頻譜向 5G 頻譜的轉換，因為據我們了解，轉換頻譜後，每比特的成本會下降 80% 到 90%。如果你想增加客戶群可用的頻寬，最經濟實惠的方法之一就是加快 4G 向 5G 的轉換。

And the instruments that we are seeing, and if I look at the what kind of software downloads and codes and use cases that we provision with those instruments, it indicates to me it's a lot more about retarget -- reclassifying spectrum from 4G to 5G.

而我們看到的這些工具，以及我觀察我們用這些工具提供的軟體下載、程式碼和用例，都表明這更多的是關於重新定位——將頻譜從 4G 重新分類到 5G。

And it also kind of feeds our belief that millimeter wave is pretty challenging to do on a mass scale. And the easiest way to create bandwidth is really repurposing your 0 to 7 gigahertz spectrum. That's just our view of this thing.

這也在某種程度上加深了我們對毫米波大規模應用的擔憂。創建頻寬最簡單的方法就是重新利用你的 0 到 7 吉赫茲頻譜。這只是我們對這件事的看法。

Yeah. That's great.

是的。那太棒了。

And then by the way, North American phenomenon only. And I believe the Europeans will jump on it as well because they have exactly the same problem. They're all under massive cost pressure and that is one of the easiest ways to lower cost of your bandwidth.

順便一提，這只是北美地區的現象。我相信歐洲人也會積極回應，因為他們也面臨同樣的問題。他們都面臨著巨大的成本壓力，而降低頻寬成本是最簡單的方法之一。

Yeah. Great point. Just a quick follow-up if I could, around your acquisition of Inertial Labs. How do you see that product fitting into your portfolio? Is it very much a stand-alone business unit? Is there much adjacency or synergy with the rest of your commercial activities? And maybe just -- you've had a couple of weeks at the helm there. And how do you -- what's been the feedback on?

是的。說得對。我能否就您收購 Inertial Labs 一事做一個簡短的後續詢問？您認為該產品如何融入您的產品組合？它是否是一個完全獨立的業務部門？它與您其他商業活動之間有多少關聯性或協同效應？或許只是──你已經在那裡掌舵兩週了。那麼，你們是如何──你們的回饋如何？

Well, we just closed this deal two days ago, but we've been obviously working with them for a while. So this has been a conscious diversification for us to be less reliant on the highly volatile telecom service provider and taking our -- if I look at our core competencies, it's really communications, engineering, algorithms, advanced -- truly advanced system design.

我們兩天前才完成這筆交易，但顯然我們已經和他們合作了一段時間。因此，我們有意進行多元化發展，以減少對波動性極大的電信服務供應商的依賴，並發揮我們的核心競爭力——如果我審視我們的核心競爭力，那就是通訊、工程、演算法、先進的——真正先進的系統設計。

And when we looked at our skill set and say, well, where is the [richer postures] using this know-how? Well, it's aerospace and defense. And the technology we have is actually generations ahead of what the traditional mil, aero players service the market with today. And we think, hey, we can take it, and we really could leapfrog pretty much everybody in that space.

當我們審視自己的技能，然後問自己，如何運用這些知識來做更豐富的姿勢呢？嗯，是航空航太和國防領域。而我們擁有的技術其實比傳統軍工、航空企業目前為市場提供的技術領先好幾代。我們心想，嘿，我們可以做到，而且我們真的可以在這個領域超越幾乎所有人。

And we've shown it with our resilient timing, actually, our -- and these products are unlike the traditional book, ship business in the test and measurement, while it's a very attractive margin business. You have to -- every quarter, your big chunk of it is a book, ship business. Whereas the -- what we're talking about here in aerospace and defense, PNT, it's a design win-driven business.

事實上，我們已經透過我們靈活的時機把握證明了這一點——而且這些產品與傳統的圖書、船舶業務在測試和測量方面截然不同，儘管這是一個利潤非常可觀的業務。你必須－每個季度，你收入的大部分都來自圖書和航運業務。然而，我們在航空航太和國防領域所討論的PNT（定位、導航和授時）卻是一個以設計成功為導向的業務。

Once you win module, subsystem or a product inside a larger system with a Tier 1 OEMs, you're done. And when they go into production, they just pull all their business. So it's a much lower cost of growing revenue and profitability from point of view of go-to-market. So you're still leveraging your engineering know-how and competence but at a much lower go-to-market.

一旦你贏得了與一級原始設備製造商 (OEM) 合作的大型系統中的模組、子系統或產品，你就大功告成了。一旦投入生產，他們就會撤回所有業務。因此，從市場進入的角度來看，其增加收入和獲利能力的成本要低得多。這樣，你仍然可以利用你的工程技術知識和能力，但市場進入成本要低得多。

And I think longer term that gives us a very nice operating margin expansion and the gross margin expansion. And with the -- so we acquired Jackson Labs a couple of years ago, we acquired the T in PNT. With the acquisition of Inertial Labs we added P and T, positioning and -- P and N, positioning and navigation.

我認為從長遠來看，這將為我們帶來非常可觀的營業利潤率和毛利率成長。幾年前我們收購了 Jackson Labs，也收購了 PNT 中的 T。透過收購 Inertial Labs，我們增加了 P 和 T（定位）以及 P 和 N（定位和導航）。

So now we can effectively deliver the whole alternative navigation modular system to any system integrator out there. And in particular, the high-growth drones and alternative navigation solutions demand is where we are playing into.

所以現在我們可以有效地將整個替代導航模組化系統交付給任何系統整合商。尤其是高成長的無人機和替代導航解決方案的需求，正是我們所關注的領域。

That's great. Thanks so much for that color.

那太棒了。非常感謝你提供的顏色。

Meta Marshall, Morgan Stanley.

Meta Marshall，摩根士丹利。

Great. Thanks and congrats on the quarter. Maybe just as a first question, you had been kind of more optimistic about seeing some of this demand kind of return in fiscal Q3 or calendar Q1. So was this -- you just started to see some of those orders earlier than expected or starting to see it stronger than you expected. And then maybe the second question is just kind of the recovery path that you see for the SE business and some of that business returning. Thanks

偉大的。謝謝，也恭喜你本季取得佳績。或許可以先問一個問題，您之前是否比較樂觀地認為，在第三財季或第一個自然季度，這種需求會有所回升？所以情況是這樣的——你只是比預期更早看到了一些訂單，或者訂單量比預期的要大。那麼第二個問題可能就是您認為SE業務的復甦路徑以及部分業務的回歸情況。謝謝

Sure. So I mean -- so I was looking and kind of measuring temperature of even starting in the summer and really September quarter just the tone of the likes of AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile and all the other operators has been shifting towards, hey, we're going to increase build-outs of our fiber. And what we saw is run for the hills has kind of become a market share grab shift mindset within those operators.

當然。所以我的意思是——我一直在觀察和衡量溫度，甚至從夏季開始，到了九月份，像 AT&T、Verizon、T-Mobile 和所有其他運營商的基調都已轉向，嘿，我們將增加光纖的建設。我們看到的是，這種「逃離荒野」的心態，已經演變成這些業者爭奪市場份額的思維模式。

And then it was really the first inkling that, hey, we're going to start seeing things finally turning around after two years. And then these kind of dialogues that started in September quarter and they accelerated into December quarter. And of course, now you see it's pretty much, again, has become a competitive play where nobody wants to be left behind.

然後，我們才真正開始意識到，嘿，兩年後，事情終於要開始好轉了。然後，這類對話從9月開始，並在12月加速發展。當然，現在你可以看到，這又變成了一場競爭激烈的遊戲，沒有人想落後。

I mean you saw T-Mobile is getting into fiber. Verizon is getting back into fiber. AT&T is accelerating fiber builds. Well, MSOs, the cable operators are looking at it and said, hey, wait a second, they're coming after my bread and butter, which is broadband. So they are now being forced to start doing at least something in the interim before DOCSIS 4.0 shows up. And of course, by doing all of that, the wireless was not far behind.

我的意思是，你也看到了，T-Mobile 正在進軍光纖領域。Verizon正在重返光纖網路。AT&T正在加速光纖網路建置。嗯，MSO（多系統運營商）和有線電視運營商都注意到了這一點，然後說，等等，他們這是要搶我的飯碗，也就是寬頻業務。因此，在 DOCSIS 4.0 出現之前，他們現在被迫至少開始採取一些過渡措施。當然，隨著這一切的發生，無線技術也緊跟著。

So when we saw the change in all these kind of dynamics happening, we said, okay, that's the beginning of the change in the mindset that we are seeing with service providers. But we didn't see the money yet materializing.

所以當我們看到所有這些動態變化發生時，我們就說，好吧，這就是服務提供者思維方式轉變的開始。但我們當時還沒有看到資金到位。

And then in the Q3 -- in the fiscal Q2, which is December quarter, we saw people putting money where their mouth was. And it continuing into Q3, which is normally we generally see as a weaker quarter because everybody doesn't set their budgets until the end of February. Well, that's continuing into this quarter.

然後在第三季度——也就是第二財季（12 月季度），我們看到人們用實際行動證明了自己的承諾。這種情況一直延續到第三季度，而第三季度通常被認為是業績較弱的季度，因為大家要到二月底才會制定預算。這種情況將延續到本季。

So the mere fact that we're not seeing the seasonal dip in the service provider. It continues to move. It's clearly telling us it's not a onetime blip. And one thing was really kind of the last thing is we were kind of doom and gloom up until about September on the wireless space. We don't think much is going to happen until middle of next year.

所以，我們僅僅沒有看到服務提供者出現季節性下滑這一事實就足以說明問題。它仍在移動。這顯然是在告訴我們，這不是一次性的波動。最後一點是，直到九月左右，我們對無線領域的前景一直感到悲觀和絕望。我們認為明年年中之前不會有太大進展。

Well, the indication that people starting placing significant orders for wireless field instruments, you only do that if you are one to two quarters away from doing a mass deployment or restarting your 5G. And we also know what kind of software download you have in those instruments. And that pretty much gives you a clear indication of what kind of work people are planning to do.

嗯，只有當你距離大規模部署或重啟 5G 還有一到兩個季度的時候，人們才會開始大量訂購無線現場儀器。我們也知道你的這些儀器下載了哪些軟體。這基本上可以讓你清楚地了解人們計劃從事什麼樣的工作。

So in that respect, we feel -- and I will just emphasize, it's North American. I mean we're not talking yet about Europe, and it's North America, I'm feeling much more optimistic on the North American landscape. And if I look at traditionally, Europeans were about three to six months behind, and I do think it will spread to Europe, probably by the middle of the year. So we'll provide kind of the next wave of recovery. So that's on the NEMs.

所以從這個角度來看，我們覺得──我只想強調一下，這是北美式的。我的意思是，我們現在還沒談到歐洲，而是北美，我對北美的前景感到更樂觀。如果從傳統角度來看，歐洲人大約落後三到六個月，而且我認為這種情況會蔓延到歐洲，可能在年中就會發生。所以我們將帶來下一波復甦浪潮。所以，這就是NEM的情況。

On SE, well, it's a story of good news and maybe good news but not so good news, right? So the good news is our AIOps is absolutely everybody and their brother wants it and there's a lot of interest. The not so good news, it's taking time to get through the teething pain and deploy it and be able to deliver all the use cases that customers want.

在SE上，嗯，這是一個有好消息也有壞消息的故事，對吧？好消息是，我們的 AIOps 絕對是人人想要的，而且市場反應熱烈。不太好的消息是，它需要時間來度過初期困難期，進行部署，並能夠提供客戶想要的所有用例。

So as a result, there is a disconnect between the velocity of engagement and how quickly we can turn it into the revenue. I think throughout this year, we will resolve most of these kind of early teething pains and catch up on the development of all the use cases. And we feel this is going to be a major driver for the SE business unit growth.

因此，用戶參與的速度與我們將其轉化為收入的速度之間存在脫節。我認為在今年內，我們將解決大部分這類早期初期遇到的困難，並趕上所有用例的開發進度。我們認為這將成為東南業務部門成長的主要驅動力。

The second part on there is the private network. So that business is doing really well, kind of especially private, mission-critical networks. It's growing off of a small base, but it's doing very well, and we're seeing a lot of -- both kind of industrial and sovereign interest in building their private security networks.

第二部分是私有網路。所以這項業務發展得非常好，尤其是一些私有的、任務關鍵型網路。雖然它目前的基礎還很小，但發展勢頭良好，我們看到許多企業和主權國家都對建立自己的私人安全網絡表現出濃厚的興趣。

And the third piece is the enterprise, and I think that is the piece that I think is, I mean, with exception of maybe security, the rest of it is not spending as much money. So I think that will be probably the last piece to recover in that business.

第三部分是企業，我認為這一部分，我的意思是，除了安全方面，其他方面花費的錢並不多。所以我認為這很可能是該行業最後一個恢復的部分。

But we do think calendar '25 will be the year where this business -- I mean they already turned the corner from point of view of technology development and redeveloping product portfolio. The next step for them is to start putting points on the board by growing quarter on quarter.

但我們認為 2025 年將是這家企業迎來轉機的一年——我的意思是，從技術開發和產品組合重建的角度來看，他們已經扭轉了局面。他們的下一步是逐季成長，從而開始在積分榜上取得成績。

Great. Thanks.

偉大的。謝謝。

Tim Savageaux, Northland Capital Markets.

Tim Savageaux，北地資本市場。

Hey, good afternoon. And congrats on the results from me as well. And you touched on some of this, but I'll maybe see if I can fill in some blanks here. In terms of the carrier strength, and I note your US -- North America revenue was quite strong sequentially in the quarter.

嘿，下午好。我也要祝賀你們取得這樣的成績。你剛才也提到了一些，但我或許可以補充一些細節。就營運商實力而言，我注意到貴公司在美國北美地區的營收在本季環比成長相當強勁。

And you kind of touched on it. The strength there in fiber monitoring and carriers being principally US based, just want to confirm that. And also whether that's really concentrated with the real big guys, the AT&Ts and Verizons of the world or if you're seeing any broader base to that strength in the US in fiber access and fiber field?

你剛才也稍微提到了這一點。光纖監測和營運商主要位於美國，這方面實力很強，我只是想確認一下。此外，這種優勢是否真的集中在像 AT&T 和 Verizon 這樣的大公司身上，還是在美國的光纖接入和光纖領域有更廣泛的基礎？

Well, the fiber monitoring, ironically, is the countries outside of US are the big user of fiber monitoring. They always believed in monitoring their fiber network. In North America, we are now seeing some, I would say, Tier 1 players are starting to consider. They're rolling it out in several markets. And if that trend catches on, it's going to be a significant boost to growth in that business.

諷刺的是，光纖監測的主要使用者群體是美國以外的國家。他們始終堅持監控光纖網路。在北美，我們現在看到一些，可以說是頂級玩家開始考慮這個問題了。他們正在多個市場推廣這項服務。如果這種趨勢流行起來，將會極大地促進該行業的成長。

But also in North America, it's really the hyperscaler. It's the who is who in the big social media, AI and all that. They are viewing fiber monitoring as an integral part of building out. If you're going to spend hundreds of billions of dollars building out data centers, you should spend at least $100 million to make sure that they are connected to something that works.

但同樣在北美，真正運作的是超大規模資料中心。這是關於大型社群媒體、人工智慧等領域的人物介紹。他們將光纖監測視為建設過程中不可或缺的一部分。如果你要花費數千億美元來建造資料中心，那麼你至少應該花費 1 億美元來確保它們連接到可靠的網路。

And they are finding that the weak link is the interconnect between the data centers. It's the -- because they usually use a third party to connect all the data centers. And there is already very quick bifurcation between those who can and those who can't. And there is some really next-generation fiber service providers who are really putting in state-of-the-art fiber links where you can monitor even dark fiber.

他們發現，薄弱環節是資料中心之間的互連。這是因為他們通常使用第三方來連接所有資料中心。能做到的人和不能做到的人之間已經出現了非常明顯的分化。還有一些真正的新一代光纖服務供應商，他們正在部署最先進的光纖鏈路，即使是暗光纖也可以進行監控。

So you can turn it on at a drop of a hat and provide the SLA agreement that is needed. And then of course, there's the -- your father's fiber network, who is like, okay. We'll send the truck and we'll connect and that's just not what those players require.

所以您可以隨時啟用它，並提供所需的服務等級協定 (SLA)。當然，還有你父親的光纖網絡，他可能會說，好吧。我們會派車過去，我們會進行連接，但這並不是那些球員所需要的。

So we actually view it as a -- the smart money and the smart engineers are deploying it. Of course, it's self-serving. We believe they should be doing it, but it's also putting a major investment in quality of service and quality of performance that the networks are able to deliver.

所以我們實際上認為，這是——聰明的投資者和聰明的工程師正在部署它。當然，這是出於自身利益。我們認為他們應該這樣做，但這同時也意味著對網路能夠提供的服務品質和效能品質進行重大投資。

So I think North America is in the early stages of deploying where we do see North America is also fiber monitoring, it's really more handheld than -- they use fiber monitoring when they build out networks, but then they kind of leave it along. But we believe, you should be using it when you build it out and then also when you're managing it because it actually enables you to automate and reduce the cost of managing the network.

所以我認為北美還處於部署的早期階段，我們看到北美也在使用光纖監控，但它更像是手持設備——他們在建設網路時會使用光纖監控，但之後他們就把它擱置了。但我們認為，在建立網路時應該使用它，在管理網路時也應該使用它，因為它實際上可以實現網路管理的自動化並降低管理成本。

Okay. Great. And then you did see a bit of an uptick in Europe, at least sequentially in the quarter as well. You've indicated you really haven't seen the carriers come back and I guess that's both fiber field and wireless. So should we assume that's network equipment manufacturers driving that or any other factors?

好的。偉大的。然後，你確實看到歐洲市場出現了一些回升，至少在本季環比有所上升。您曾表示您還沒有看到運營商恢復運營，我想這既包括光纖領域，也包括無線網路領域。那我們應該認為這是網路設備製造商造成的，還是還有其他因素導致的呢？

So clearly, Europe is pretty strong for us with NEMs, although a big chunk of it is wireless NEMs, and they have not been that strong. I mean we hope that the recovery in the field, wireless, maybe in one, two quarters as they start shipping equipment into the networks, the infrastructure test equipment will also pick up.

所以很明顯，歐洲在NEM方面對我們來說相當強大，儘管其中很大一部分是無線NEM，而無線NEM一直不太強大。我的意思是，我們希望無線領域的復甦能夠持續，也許在一兩個季度內，隨著設備開始運入網絡，基礎設施測試設備也會隨之恢復。

And of course, the fiber NEMs in Europe are quite strong. And Europe, there's a run rate demand that is fairly consistent. But we know that generally, Europe is about one to two quarters behind the US. I mean they -- when US went into tailspin September of '22, Europe probably took about one or two quarters behind.

當然，歐洲的光纖網路工程技術也相當成熟。而歐洲的需求量則相當穩定。但我們知道，總體而言，歐洲比美國落後大約一到兩個季度。我的意思是，當美國在 2022 年 9 月陷入經濟衰退時，歐洲可能落後了一到兩個季度。

So we think by the middle of the year, I think Europe should start picking up as well. And there, it's very much all about continuation of deploying fiber and 5G. And if that happens, that kind of would be a second wind to our field instrumentation telecom business that would come in because Europe is, I mean, equally big to the North American market.

所以我們認為到年中，歐洲的經濟也應該開始復甦。在那裡，一切都圍繞著繼續部署光纖和 5G 。如果這種情況發生，那將為我們的現場儀表電信業務帶來第二次發展動力，因為歐洲市場與北美市場一樣大。

Got it. And last one for me. And in terms of the discussion about seasonality, and I think what you're saying is you're seeing better than seasonal. So backing out Inertial, it looks like your NE segment would be flattish to maybe down a very little bit where you might normally see, I don't know what some -- maybe a mid-single digit, low to mid-single-digit seasonal decline typically, and you're not sort of seeing that this year given the recovery in demand. Is that basically right?

知道了。這是我最後一個問題。至於關於季節性的討論，我認為你的意思是，你看到的比季節性更好。所以，排除慣性因素，看起來你們的東北板塊會比較平穩，甚至可能略有下降，而通常情況下，你們可能會看到一些——我不知道具體是多少——也許會出現個位數中段，個位數低段到中段的季節性下降，但鑑於今年需求的複蘇，你們並沒有看到這種情況。基本就是這樣嗎？

Yeah, that's basically right. Although I wouldn't even say a decline, I think it's flat to maybe even single digit -- I mean low single-digit growth. And then on top of it, you had Inertial Labs. So that's why we feel -- I mean the mix changes within that revenue.

是的，基本上正確。雖然我不會說是下降，但我認為它持平，甚至可能只有個位數成長——我的意思是低個位數成長。此外，還有慣性實驗室。所以這就是為什麼我們覺得——我的意思是，收入組成發生了變化。

I mean that's why -- I mean some of the margin -- I mean even though top line is flat to maybe slightly even up, the margins are a little weaker because of the mix, there is -- in some segments, there is a lower margin profile than what we did in December.

我的意思是，這就是為什麼——我的意思是，部分利潤——我的意思是，儘管營收持平甚至略有增長，但由於產品組合的原因，利潤率略有下降，在某些細分市場，利潤率低於我們在 12 月的水平。

And I would say also, first quarter is when we accrue most of our statutory expenses for the year. So that's clearly, I'd say, the biggest drag, but also some of the mix will be different. So volumetrically, I mean we feel NSE is going to see pretty strong -- well, I would say, a seasonally strong Q3 because generally, we drop anywhere between 5% to, maybe even sometimes, 10% Q2 and Q3. And here, we are flat to slightly even maybe up.

另外，我想說的是，第一季是我們一年中大部分法定支出發生的時間。所以很明顯，我認為這是最大的阻礙，但有些因素也會有所不同。所以從成交量來看，我們感覺 NSE 第三季度將會非常強勁——嗯，我會說，這是一個季節性強勁的季度，因為通常情況下，第二季度到第三季度我們會下降 5% 到 10%。而在這裡，我們這裡要么是平坦的，要么略有上升，甚至可能更高。

Great. Thanks very much.

偉大的。非常感謝。

Mehdi Hosseini, Susquehanna.

Mehdi Hosseini，Susquehanna。

Bastien filling in for Mehdi. Oleg, it looks like the 3D sensing is being weaker this quarter, but it is seasonally stronger in the second half. Could you touch maybe on what you're seeing in terms of ASP and dynamics? And where does that go from there? How much contributes to your OSP guide of $75 million in the third quarter of '25? Thank you.

巴斯蒂安代替邁赫迪出戰。奧列格，看來本季 3D 感測表現較弱，但下半年通常會比較強勁。您能否談談您觀察到的平均售價和市場動態方面的情況？接下來又會如何發展呢？2025年第三季度，有多少因素促成了您7,500萬美元的OSP目標？謝謝。

So usually, if you look at the 3D sensing, the September and December quarters are bigger and the March and June are smaller. So I would say when we say seasonally weaker, I mean we had more demand in the September quarter and some of it might have been pulled in from the December quarter. Plus there is also some annual ASP reduction that kind of lowered the revenue, but the volumes were pretty healthy.

所以通常情況下，如果你看一下 3D 感測數據，會發現 9 月和 12 月季度的數據較大，而 3 月和 6 月季度的數據較小。所以，當我們說季節性疲軟時，我的意思是9月份的需求量更大，其中一些需求可能來自12月份的需求。此外，年度平均售價也有所下降，這在一定程度上降低了收入，但銷量仍然相當健康。

So on the second half of the fiscal year, it's pretty much in line with seasonality in 3D sensing. I mean that's -- there just fundamentally fewer units being built in the second half than first half. And on the -- I think on $75 million, we kind of always break up core business and the 3D sensing.

因此，在財政年度的下半年，它與 3D 感測的季節性變化基本一致。我的意思是，下半年建造的房屋數量從根本上來說就比​​上半年少。至於——我認為在 7500 萬美元的預算下，我們總是會把核心業務和 3D 感測業務分開。

I think we have a pretty healthy anti-counterfeiting and industrial business and that more than offset the decline in the 3D sensing. And -- but we're also doing one thing, I don't know if Ilan mentioned it, is we are actually taking proactive measures to lower our internal inventories.

我認為我們的防偽和工業業務發展得相當健康，足以彌補 3D 感測業務的下滑。而且——但我們還在做一件事，我不知道伊蘭有沒有提到，那就是我們實際上正在採取積極措施來降低我們的內部庫存。

So we are shipping anti-counterfeiting demand from our inventories. So even though the volumes go up, we are not running the factories at full bore. So we're not picking up the extra absorption. So -- as a result, we'll end up with lower inventories, we'll free up more cash, but we are not picking up maybe another 1 percentage points, 2 percentage points, 3 percentage points of operating profit that we would do otherwise.

因此，我們正在從庫存中發貨，以滿足防偽需求。所以即使產量上升，我們也沒有讓工廠滿載運轉。所以我們並沒有吸收額外的養分。因此，最終我們的庫存會減少，我們會釋放更多現金，但我們無法像往常一樣獲得額外的 1%、2%、3% 的營業利潤。

It's a conscious measure to really accelerate demand, supply balancing because we're seeing also channel inventories are declining, and we want to get it to by the middle of the year that we are now and supply, demand balancing becomes much easier to forecast and plan our production after that.

這是有意識地採取的措施，旨在真正加快供需平衡，因為我們也看到渠道庫存正在下降，我們希望到年中時能達到目前的水平，這樣一來，供需平衡就更容易預測和規劃我們的生產。

Yeah. The inventory balance is a slight headwind to margin, but we consciously took that approach.

是的。庫存餘額對利潤率略有不利影響，但我們有意採取了這種策略。

Cash is cash.

現金就是現金。

Yeah.

是的。

That is very helpful. Thank you.

那很有幫助。謝謝。

And everyone, at this time, there are no further questions. I'd like to hand the call back to Ms. Vibhuti Nayar for any additional or closing remarks.

各位，此時此刻，沒有其他問題了。我謹將電話交還給維布蒂·納亞爾女士，請她補充或作總結發言。

Thank you, Lisa. This concludes our earnings call for today. Thank you for joining everyone. Have a good afternoon.

謝謝你，麗莎。今天的財報電話會議到此結束。謝謝大家的參與。午安.

Once again, everyone, that does conclude today's conference. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

再次向各位致謝，今天的會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線了。