Viavi Solutions Inc (VIAV) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. My name is Bella, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Viavi Solutions fiscal fourth-quarter and full year 2025 earnings call. Today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions).

午安.我叫貝拉，今天我將擔任您的會議接線生。現在，我歡迎大家參加 Viavi Solutions 2025 財年第四季和全年財報電話會議。今天的會議正在錄製中。（操作員指令）。

At this time, I would like to welcome and turn the conference over to Vibhuti Nayar, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在，我歡迎投資者關係主管 Vibhuti Nayar 並把會議交給他。請繼續。

Thank you, Bella. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Viavi Solutions fourth-quarter and fiscal 2025 earnings call. My name is Vibhuti Nayar, Head of Investor Relations for Viavi Solutions. And with me on today's call is Oleg Khaykin, our President and CEO; and Ilan Daskal, our CFO.

謝謝你，貝拉。大家下午好，歡迎參加 Viavi Solutions 第四季和 2025 財年財報電話會議。我叫 Vibhuti Nayar，是 Viavi Solutions 投資者關係主管。和我一起參加今天電話會議的還有我們的總裁兼執行長 Oleg Khaykin 和我們的財務長 Ilan Daskal。

Please note, this call will include forward-looking statements about the company's financial performance. These statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from our current expectations and estimations. We encourage you to review our most recent annual report and SEC filings, particularly the risk factors described in those filings. The forward-looking statements including the guidance that we provide during this call are valid only as of today. Viavi undertakes no obligation to update these statements.

請注意，本次電話會議將包括有關公司財務表現的前瞻性陳述。這些聲明受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與我們目前的預期和估計有重大差異。我們鼓勵您查看我們最近的年度報告和美國證券交易委員會文件，特別是這些文件中描述的風險因素。我們在本次電話會議中提供的前瞻性陳述（包括指導）僅在今天有效。Viavi 不承擔更新這些聲明的義務。

Please also note that unless we state otherwise, all results discussed on this call, except revenue, are non-GAAP. We reconcile these non-GAAP results to our preliminary GAAP financials and discuss their usefulness and limitations in today's earnings release. The release, as well as our supplementary earnings slides which include historical financial tables, are available on Viavi's website at www.investor.viavisolutions.com. Finally, we are recording today's call and will make the recording available on our website by 4:30 PM Pacific Time this evening.

另請注意，除非我們另有說明，本次電話會議討論的所有結果（收入除外）均為非 GAAP 結果。我們將這些非公認會計準則結果與我們的初步公認會計準則財務數據進行協調，並在今天的收益報告中討論它們的實用性和局限性。本新聞稿以及包含歷史財務報表的補充獲利投影片均可在 Viavi 的網站 www.investor.viavisolutions.com 上取得。最後，我們將錄製今天的電話會議，並將於今晚太平洋時間下午 4:30 之前在我們的網站上傳。

Now I would like to turn the call over to Ilan.

現在我想把電話轉給伊蘭。

Thank you, Vibhuti. Good afternoon, everyone. Now I would like to review the results of the fourth quarter of fiscal year 2025. Net revenue for the quarter was $290.5 million, which is at the high end of our guidance range of $278 million to $290 million. Revenue was up 2% sequentially and on a year-over-year basis, was up 15.3%. Operating margin for the fourth fiscal quarter was 14.4% at the high end of our guidance range of 12.5% to 14.5%.

謝謝你，Vibhuti。大家下午好。現在我想回顧一下2025財年第四季的業績。本季淨收入為 2.905 億美元，處於我們 2.78 億美元至 2.9 億美元的預期範圍的高端。營收季增 2%，年增 15.3%。第四財季的營業利潤率為 14.4%，處於我們 12.5% 至 14.5% 的預期範圍高端。

Operating margin decreased 230 basis points from the prior quarter and on a year-over-year basis was up 350 basis points. EPS at $0.13 was also at the high end of our guidance range of $0.10 to $0.13 and was down $0.02 sequentially. On a year-over-year basis, EPS was up $0.05.

營業利益率較上一季下降 230 個基點，較去年同期上升 350 個基點。每股收益為 0.13 美元，也處於我們 0.10 美元至 0.13 美元指導範圍的高端，並且比上一季下降了 0.02 美元。與去年同期相比，每股收益上漲了 0.05 美元。

Moving on to our Q4 results by business segment. Given Viavi's revenue growth and recent acquisition, the service enablement revenue as a percent of total revenue is lower and led us to combined network enablement, NE and service enablement, SE into one reportable segment, Network and Service Enablement or NSE. The ongoing reportable two segments would be NSE and OSP.

接下來按業務部門劃分我們的第四季業績。鑑於 Viavi 的收入成長和最近的收購，服務支援收入佔總收入的百分比較低，並導致我們將網路支援、NE 和服務支援、SE 合併為一個可報告的部門，即網路和服務支援或 NSE。持續報告的兩個部分將是 NSE 和 OSP。

NSE revenue for the fourth fiscal quarter came in at $209.1 million which is above the midpoint of our guidance range of $203 million to $213 million. On a year-over-year basis, NSE revenue was up 14.8% as a result of strong demand for fiber lab and production products, mainly driven from the data center ecosystem as well as growth in aerospace and defense products, including the acquisition of Inertial Labs. NSE gross margin for the quarter was 62.2%, which is 10 basis points higher on a year-over-year basis.

NSE 第四財季的營收為 2.091 億美元，高於我們預期範圍的中點 2.03 億美元至 2.13 億美元。與去年同期相比，NSE 收入成長了 14.8%，這主要得益於光纖實驗室和生產產品的強勁需求，這主要受到資料中心生態系統以及航空航太和國防產品成長（包括收購 Inertial Labs）的推動。NSE 本季毛利率為 62.2%，比去年同期高出 10 個基點。

NSE's operating margin for the quarter was 4.7%, an increase of 290 basis points on a year-over-year basis. NSE operating margin was slightly lower than the midpoint of our guidance range of 4% to 6%, mainly as a result of fiscal year-end employee variable costs as well as higher R&D expenses.

NSE 本季的營業利益率為 4.7%，較去年同期成長 290 個基點。NSE 營業利潤率略低於我們 4% 至 6% 的指導範圍中點，主要原因是財年末員工變動成本以及研發費用增加。

OSP revenue for the fourth fiscal quarter came in at $81.4 million, which is above the high end of our guidance range of $75 million to $77 million, and was up 16.6% on a year-over-year basis. The increase in revenue for the quarter was primarily a result of strength in anticounterfeiting and other products.

第四財季 OSP 營收為 8,140 萬美元，高於我們預期的 7,500 萬美元至 7,700 萬美元的最高水平，年增 16.6%。本季營收的成長主要得益於防偽和其他產品的強勁成長。

OSP gross margin was 54.7%, up 170 basis points from the same period last year and was primarily driven by higher volume and favorable product mix. OSP margin was 39.4%, which is above our guidance range of 36% to 38% and is an increase of 460 basis points on a year-over-year basis as a result of a higher fall through.

OSP毛利率為54.7%，較去年同期上升170個基點，主要得益於銷售增加及產品組合有利。OSP利潤率為39.4%，高於我們36%至38%的指導範圍，由於跌幅較大，較去年同期成長460個基點。

Moving on to the full year results of fiscal year 2025. For the full fiscal year, revenue was $1.84 billion, which is up 8.4% on a year-over-year basis. The revenue growth was mainly driven by strong demand for lab and production and field products, primarily from the data center's ecosystem. This was partially offset by a decline in spend for wireless and cable products by NEMs and service providers.

繼續討論 2025 財年的全年業績。整個財年的營收為18.4億美元，年增8.4%。收入成長主要得益於對實驗室、生產和現場產品的強勁需求，主要來自資料中心的生態系統。這被網路設備製造商和服務供應商在無線和有線產品上的支出下降部分抵消。

We also saw growth in our aerospace and defense products, including the acquisition of Inertial Labs. For OSP, we saw growth in our anticounterfeiting and other products as the industry's inventory levels normalized. Operating margin for the full year was 14.2%, up 270 basis points from fiscal year 2024 and was driven by higher revenue and favorable product mix, resulting in a higher fall-through. Full year EPS was $0.47, up $0.14 from the prior year.

我們的航空航太和國防產品也實現了成長，包括收購 Inertial Labs。對於 OSP，隨著行業庫存水準恢復正常，我們的防偽產品和其他產品均實現了成長。全年營業利潤率為 14.2%，較 2024 財年增長 270 個基點，這得益於更高的收入和有利的產品組合，從而帶來了更高的跌幅。全年每股收益為 0.47 美元，較上年增長 0.14 美元。

Moving on to the balance sheet and cash flow. Total cash and short-term investments at the end of Q4 were $429 million compared to $40.2 million in the third quarter of fiscal 2025. Cash flow from operating activities for the quarter was $23.8 million versus $26.2 million in the same period last year.

繼續討論資產負債表和現金流量。第四季末的現金和短期投資總額為 4.29 億美元，而 2025 財年第三季為 4,020 萬美元。本季經營活動現金流為 2,380 萬美元，去年同期為 2,620 萬美元。

During the quarter, we did not purchase any shares of our stock. For the full year, we purchased 2 million shares for about $16.4 million. We have almost $200 million remaining under our current authorized share repurchase program. In fiscal year 2025, we prioritized our capital allocation towards M&A with the acquisition of Inertial Labs and the pending acquisition of Spirent's high-speed Ethernet, network security and channel emulation business lines.

本季度，我們沒有買任何股票。全年我們買了 200 萬股，價值約 1,640 萬美元。我們目前授權的股票回購計畫還剩餘近 2 億美元。在 2025 財年，我們優先將資本配置用於併購，收購了 Inertial Labs，並即將收購 Spirent 的高速乙太網路、網路安全和頻道仿真業務線。

The fully diluted share count for the quarter was 227 million shares, up from 224.2 million shares in the prior year and versus 227.4 million shares in our guidance for the fourth fiscal quarter. CapEx for the quarter was $5.5 million versus $3.8 million in the same period last year. CapEx for the full fiscal year was $27.8 million, versus $19.5 million in the prior year.

本季完全稀釋股數為 2.27 億股，高於去年同期的 2.242 億股，也高於我們對第四財季的預期 2.274 億股。本季資本支出為 550 萬美元，而去年同期為 380 萬美元。整個財年的資本支出為 2,780 萬美元，而上一年為 1,950 萬美元。

Moving on to our first quarter guidance. Historically, Q1 is a softer quarter relative to Q4. However, we expect the first fiscal quarter revenue to be slightly up sequentially. For NSE, we expect first fiscal quarter revenue to be slightly up relative to the prior quarter, which reflects a seasonally strong quarter, driven mainly by data center ecosystem as well as aerospace and defense and offset by continued weakness in wireless. For OSP, we also expect quarter-over-quarter revenue to be slightly higher, driven by seasonally stronger 3D sensing products.

繼續我們的第一季指引。從歷史上看，第一季相對於第四季而言較為疲軟。不過，我們預計第一財季營收將較上季略有成長。對於 NSE，我們預計第一財季營收將較上一季略有上升，這反映了季節性強勁成長，主要受資料中心生態系統以及航空航太和國防的推動，並被無線領域的持續疲軟所抵消。對於 OSP，我們也預計受季節性 3D 感測產品強勁推動，季度環比營收將略有成長。

For the first fiscal quarter of 2026, we expect revenue in the range of $290 million and $298 million. Operating margin is expected to be 15%, plus or minus 40 basis points and EPS to be between $0.13 and $0.14. We expect NSE revenue to be approximately $211 million, plus or minus $3 million with an operating margin of 5.8%, plus or minus 40 basis points.

對於 2026 財年第一季度，我們預計營收將在 2.9 億美元至 2.98 億美元之間。預計營業利益率為15%，上下浮動40個基點，每股收益在0.13美元至0.14美元之間。我們預計NSE營收約2.11億美元，上下浮動300萬美元，營業利益率為5.8%，上下浮動40個基點。

OSP revenue is expected to be approximately $83 million, plus or minus $1 million, with an operating margin of 38.3%, plus or minus 20 basis points. Our tax expenses for the first quarter are expected to be around $8.5 million, plus or minus $500,000 as a result of jurisdictional mix. We expect other income and expenses to reflect a net expense of approximately $5 million, and the share count is expected to be around 228.6 million shares.

OSP 收入預計約 8,300 萬美元，上下浮動 100 萬美元，營業利潤率為 38.3%，上下浮動 20 個基點。我們第一季的稅費預計約為 850 萬美元，由於司法管轄權的不同，上下浮動 50 萬美元。我們預計其他收入和支出將反映約 500 萬美元的淨支出，預計股票數量約為 2.286 億股。

Our guidance does not include financial performance from our announced acquisition of certain Spirent's business lines, and we currently estimate the transaction to close by the end of September. During the fourth quarter, we successfully priced and allocated a $600 million Term Loan B, which will be used to fund the transaction at close as well as general corporate purposes. The Term Loan B will close concurrently with the transaction. Over the long term, we target a 4 times gross leverage and below 3 times net leverage.

我們的指引不包括我們宣布收購思博倫某些業務線的財務業績，我們目前估計該交易將於 9 月底完成。在第四季度，我們成功定價並分配了 6 億美元的定期貸款 B，該貸款將用於為交易提供資金以及一般公司用途。定期貸款 B 將與交易同時結束。從長期來看，我們的目標是總槓桿率達到4倍，淨槓桿率低於3倍。

With that, I will turn the call over to Oleg. Oleg?

說完這些，我將把電話轉給奧列格。奧列格？

Thank you, Ilan. Fiscal '25 ended on a strong note with Viavi revenue and EPS coming at the high end of our guidance. NSE revenue in fiscal Q4 grew approximately 15% year-over-year, primarily driven by strong demand from the data center ecosystem and aerospace and defense customers. More specifically, Fiber level production saw another strong quarter driven by continued strong and growing demand from the data center ecosystem. We further extended our leadership in this segment with the launch of the second-generation 1.6-terabit test solution.

謝謝你，伊蘭。25 財年結束時，Viavi 取得了強勁業績，營收和每股盈餘都達到我們預期的高位。NSE 第四財季營收年增約 15%，主要受資料中心生態系統以及航空航太和國防客戶的強勁需求所推動。更具體地說，受資料中心生態系統持續強勁和不斷增長的需求的推動，光纖級生產又迎來了一個強勁的季度。隨著第二代 1.6 太比特測試解決方案的推出，我們進一步擴大了在該領域的領先地位。

We expect the strong demand from the data center ecosystem to continue well into calendar '26. Our Aerospace and Defense business saw another strong quarter of growth, driven by high demand for our positioning, navigation and timing products. We expect this trend to continue throughout fiscal '26. Field instruments business continued on its gradual recovery trajectory, driven by leading service providers fiber deployment and growing demand from the data center ecosystem. Furthermore, we expect the gradual recovery to accelerate during this fiscal year, driven by anticipated stronger fiber CapEx spend by leading North American service providers.

我們預計資料中心生態系統的強勁需求將持續到26年。受定位、導航和計時產品需求旺盛的推動，我們的航空航太和國防業務又經歷了一個強勁的成長季度。我們預計這一趨勢將持續整個26財年。在領先服務供應商的光纖部署和資料中心生態系統不斷增長的需求的推動下，現場儀器業務繼續呈現逐步復甦的軌跡。此外，我們預計，受北美主要服務供應商預計增加光纖資本支出的推動，本財年經濟復甦將加速。

Wireless business continues to remain a mixed bag. While we have seen -- we have been seeing healthy demand for wireless field instruments, the recovery in the infrastructure test continues to get pushed out due to the business weakness at leading wireless NEMS. We expect the infrastructure test demand to remain sluggish in the medium term. And lastly, service enablement results were in line with our expectations. Looking ahead, we expect NSE revenue to be slightly up quarter-on-quarter, driven by continued strong demand from the data center ecosystem and aerospace and defense customers.

無線業務依然表現好壞參半。雖然我們已經看到無線現場儀器的健康需求，但由於領先的無線 NEMS 業務疲軟，基礎設施測試的復甦繼續受到推遲。我們預計中期內基礎設施測試需求仍將保持低迷。最後，服務支援結果符合我們的預期。展望未來，我們預計 NSE 收入將環比略有成長，這得益於資料中心生態系統以及航空航太和國防客戶持續強勁的需求。

This is stronger than the traditional seasonality in the first quarter. Our diversification and growth in the data center ecosystem and aerospace and defense businesses is offsetting and mitigating the traditional revenue seasonality driven by service provider demand dynamics.

這比第一季的傳統季節性更為強勁。我們在資料中心生態系統以及航空航太和國防業務的多樣化和成長正在抵消和減輕由服務提供者需求動態驅動的傳統收入季節性。

Now turning on to OSP. OSP saw strong year-on-year growth driven by recovery in anticounterfeiting and other products. We expect fiscal Q1 to be slightly up quarter-on-quarter mostly driven by seasonally stronger demand for 3D sensing products. During the fourth quarter, some of our revenue was subject to newly imposed tariffs. However, we were able to largely mitigate our initial concerns over the tariffs and are comfortable in our ability to continue to manage the ongoing impact of tariffs.

現在轉到 OSP。受防偽及其他產品復甦的推動，OSP較去年同期強勁成長。我們預計第一財季的銷售額將比上一季略有成長，主要原因是 3D 感測產品的需求季節性增強。第四季度，我們的部分收入受到新徵收的關稅的影響。然而，我們能夠在很大程度上減輕對關稅的最初擔憂，並且有信心繼續應對關稅的持續影響。

After two years of decline, fiscal '25 was a growth year for Viavi. Our diversification strategy into the data center ecosystem and aerospace and defense, combined with the stabilization and beginning of recovery in our traditional businesses drove the growth. We expect the strategy to continue driving our growth in fiscal '26.

經過兩年的下滑之後，25財年對Viavi來說是個增長年。我們的多元化策略涵蓋資料中心生態系統、航空航太和國防領域，加上傳統業務的穩定和開始復甦，推動了成長。我們預計該策略將繼續推動我們在 26 財年的成長。

In conclusion, I would like to thank the Viavi team for their strong execution and successfully navigating the volatile macroeconomic environment during this past quarter. Additionally, I would also like to thank our customers and shareholders for their continued support.

最後，我要感謝 Viavi 團隊在過去這個季度的強大執行力以及成功應對動盪的宏觀經濟環境。此外，我還要感謝我們的客戶和股東的持續支持。

With that, I will now turn it back over to the operator for questions and answers.

現在，我將把時間交還給接線員，以便進行問答。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Ruben Roy, stifel.

魯本·羅伊（Ruben Roy），斯蒂費爾（Stifel）。

Thank you. Hi guys. Oleg, first question on the -- and nice to see the results and the guidance, by the way. But the first question on the guidance. So the just reported quarter, there were some tariff impacts. And I just wanted to start with the revenue side of the tariff impacts with some of the POs that got sent back, et cetera. How did that progress? And is some of that accounted for in the guidance for September relative to the strength that you're seeing in data center and aerospace and defense, maybe you could just parse that out for us. Thank you.

謝謝。嗨，大家好。奧列格，第一個問題是關於——順便說一句，很高興看到結果和指導。但第一個問題是關於指導。因此，剛剛報告的季度存在一些關稅影響。我只是想從關稅對收入的影響開始，包括一些退回的採購訂單等等。進展如何？而且，相對於您在資料中心、航空航太和國防領域看到的強勁表現，9 月的預測中是否已經考慮到了這一點，也許您可以為我們分析一下。謝謝。

Sure. Well, I mean, first of all, the impact is only mostly on the North American sales, but we also have some impact from Chinese tariffs when we send some material to some of our factories in China. Overall, I mean, the whole tariff impact is around $1.5 million, which we have more than mitigated.

當然。嗯，我的意思是，首先，影響主要只在北美銷售，但當我們將一些材料運送到中國的一些工廠時，我們也會受到中國關稅的影響。總的來說，整個關稅的影響約為 150 萬美元，而我們已經大大減輕了這一影響。

And at this point in time, the tariffs are fully built in into our pricing and also the supply chain realignment to minimize the tariffs. So I think at this point, provided nothing has changed in the last 24 hours. I mean, really, if we take Europe, Thailand and China tariffs are somewhat fixed at this point in time, we feel we are fairly comfortable we've got it all mitigated.

目前，關稅已完全納入我們的定價中，供應鏈也進行了調整以盡量降低關稅。所以我認為就目前情況而言，假設過去 24 小時內沒有任何變化。我的意思是，如果我們將歐洲、泰國和中國的關稅考慮在內，那麼目前這些關稅已經基本固定，我們覺得我們已經相當放心，我們已經把所有關稅都減輕了。

Great, thank you for that. And then I guess, a little bit of a longer-term question just on the data center strength and 1.6T test. It sounded like from your prepared remarks that this is something that you've got some visibility into continuing well into next year. Maybe you can just talk about the competitive dynamics that you're seeing at this point and sort of customer conversations relative to 1.6T. I mean it seems like that's something that's still on the come as we think about next year and even the year after. So just wondering if you could talk about. Thank you.

太好了，謝謝你。然後我想，這是一個關於資料中心強度和 1.6T 測試的長期問題。從您準備好的發言來看，您似乎已經預見到這一事情將會持續到明年。您能否談談目前看到的競爭態勢，以及與1.6T相關的客戶討論。我的意思是，考慮到明年甚至後年，這似乎仍然是未來的事情。我只是想知道您是否可以談談。謝謝。

Well, I mean, 1.6T is what you kind of lead with, right? That's our kind of leading-edge products where you engage in advanced development and things like that. The bulk of revenue today is 800 gig and 400 gig, right? So that's what's shipping today in production and a lot. But I think 1.6 is gets you in the door and kind of locks up all the follow-on activity as the business scales.

嗯，我的意思是，1.6T 就是您所推崇的，對嗎？這是我們的尖端產品，您可以參與先進的開發和類似工作。今天的大部分收入是 800G 和 400G，對嗎？這就是今天生產中大量運送的東西。但我認為 1.6 可以讓你進入這個門檻，並在業務擴展時鎖定所有後續活動。

And I think demand is just crazy from what we are seeing, and that's why we talk about data center ecosystem because it's the leading semiconductor vendors. It's the leading optical module developers. It's all the equipment manufacturers and developers, right?

我認為從我們所看到的情況來看，需求非常瘋狂，這就是我們談論資料中心生態系統的原因，因為它是領先的半導體供應商。是國內領先的光模組開發商。都是設備製造商和開發商，對嗎？

And then last but not the least, all the production capacity in the world in China, Thailand, Vietnam, that is building these optical modules, optical switches, optical products. So it's pretty much playing up and down the entire value chain and you generally get an anchor and you win with the leading edge with a kind of leading edge performance.

最後但同樣重要的一點是，全球所有的生產能力都集中在中國、泰國和越南，這些生產能力都集中在這些光模組、光開關和光產品上。因此，它基本上在整個價值鏈中發揮作用，你通常會得到一個錨點，並憑藉一種領先的性能贏得領先優勢。

So I mean, we have just released our -- in the June quarter, our second-generation 1.6 terabits much of our competition just barely released their first generation. So we feel very good about our performance in that space. So -- and we continue to invest aggressively and broaden our reach.

所以我的意思是，我們剛剛發布了——在六月份的季度，我們的第二代 1.6 太比特，而我們的許多競爭對手才剛剛發布他們的第一代。因此，我們對自己在該領域的表現感到非常滿意。因此—我們將繼續積極投資並擴大我們的業務範圍。

But also, I mean, the data center ecosystem is not just kind of the lab equipment, production test equipment, it's also becoming what I would call the smart buyer. They've gone from thinking network management, that's kind of an afterthought.

但同時，我的意思是，資料中心生態系統不僅僅是實驗室設備、生產測試設備，它也正在成為我所說的智慧買家。他們已經不再考慮網路管理，而認為這是事後才想到的事情。

And now they realize fiber is very critical to their performance, it needs to be managed aggressively and actively. And we're now seeing data centers are actually becoming leading customers for a lot of our -- what I call field instrumentation or fiber monitoring equipment that we traditionally sold into the carriers and service providers. And that percentage has been rising quarter-over-quarter. And that's actually a very positive thing because it's, I mean, they view network performance as core to their business model. And they're not the types that are being penny-wise and pound-foolish and they believe in investing significantly into monitoring and optimizing network performance.

現在他們意識到光纖對他們的表現至關重要，需要積極主動地進行管理。現在我們看到資料中心實際上正在成為我們許多產品的主要客戶——我稱之為現場儀器或光纖監控設備，我們傳統上將這些設備出售給營運商和服務供應商。而且這比例逐季度都在上升。這實際上是一件非常積極的事情，因為他們將網路效能視為其商業模式的核心。他們不是那種因小失大的人，他們相信在監控和優化網路效能方面投入大量資金。

So we feel pretty good about this. That's why I'm starting -- I'm going to use a lot more the data center ecosystem because that pretty much captures a whole new segment that is growing very rapidly for us. And I wouldn't be surprised that in a couple of years, it will be a bigger market than the traditional service provider business.

所以我們對此感覺很好。這就是我開始的原因——我將更多地使用資料中心生態系統，因為它幾乎涵蓋了我們正在快速成長的全新領域。我不會感到驚訝，幾年後，它將成為一個比傳統服務提供者業務更大的市場。

Great detail. Thank you I'll like.

非常詳細。謝謝我會喜歡的。

Ryan Koontz, Needham.

瑞安·孔茨，尼德姆。

Ryan, thanks for the question and Congrats on the quarter. I guess within NSC, could you unpack a little bit about what's going on in the end markets there across broadband, optical and wireless in the quarter? And then how you're thinking about that going into FY26?

Ryan，感謝您的提問，並祝賀本季取得佳績。我想，在 NSC 內部，您能否稍微介紹一下本季寬頻、光纖和無線終端市場的情況？那麼，您如何看待 26 財年的情況呢？

Well, so I would say it's pretty much fiber, fiber and more fiber, right? And within NSE, there is the -- I said there's a data center ecosystem, so that semis modules, systems and production that's all pulling in the volume today, 400 gig, 800 gig and on the advanced development 1.6 terabits.

嗯，所以我想說它基本上就是纖維、纖維和更多的纖維，對嗎？在 NSE 內部，有一個資料中心生態系統，其中的半導體模組、系統和生產都在吸引當今 400 千兆、800 千兆以及高級開發 1.6 太比特的數量。

Shifting to service providers, I would say cable, I think, is being pushed out by maybe one to two quarters, given all the other dynamics going on with their upgrades. But it's very much a fiber. And I would say -- what we are seeing is it's a lot of the what I call kind of specialty fiber companies that are focusing on data center interconnect and the hyperscale data center operators themselves that are now also popping up on the horizon.

轉向服務提供商，我想說，考慮到其升級過程中發生的所有其他動態，我認為有線電視可能會被推遲一到兩個季度。但它實際上是一種纖維。我想說的是──我們看到很多我所說的特種光纖公司專注於資料中心互連，而超大規模資料中心營運商本身也正在湧現。

And of course, there is the major fiber interconnect and fiber service providers like the big North American Europeans that are rolling out their steady-state deployment. And if I also then overlay the aggressive pronouncements, a number of North American fiber players have been making about accelerating investment, we're actually starting to see this verbiage migrating into the supply chain management and operations and we already have a number of customers engaging on significant order growth in the coming 1, 2 quarters.

當然，還有主要的光纖互連和光纖服務供應商，例如北美和歐洲的大公司，他們正在推出穩定狀態的部署。如果我也加上一些北美纖維企業關於加速投資的積極聲明，我們實際上開始看到這種措辭遷移到供應鏈管理和運營中，並且我們已經有許多客戶在未來 1、2 個季度內實現訂單的大幅增長。

So that's why we're feeling much more positive that across the board from the traditional network carriers rolling out fiber to the home all the way to the specialists who are optimizing their networks for hyperscale data center interconnect and AI data center interconnect, all the way to the data centers on that field space is looking pretty promising.

因此，我們感到更加樂觀，從鋪設光纖到戶的傳統網路營運商，到為超大規模資料中心互連和人工智慧資料中心互連而優化網路的專家，再到該領域上的資料中心，整個領域的前景都相當光明。

I would say cable is probably going to be maybe some of it in December and then March quarter. I think there are clearly plans that are just kind of being pushed out due to some of the financial dynamics of these operators. And I would say wireless is the only kind of laggard in our portfolio. I was thinking December quarter seeing nice pickup in the field instruments that expansion is coming. So far, it's been really much about network optimization and getting more from what they've got.

我想說，有線電視可能會在 12 月和 3 月季度佔據部分份額。我認為，顯然有些計劃只是因為這些運營商的一些財務動態而被推遲。我想說無線是我們產品組合中唯一落後的領域。我認為 12 月季度現場儀器銷量將出現良好回升，這表明擴張即將到來。到目前為止，我們主要致力於網路優化以及從現有資源中獲取更多利益。

We haven't seen that much new deployment and thus our infrastructure test, which goes into the major NEMs has been somewhat anemic and I would have expected it to be picking up in the June quarter. It doesn't seem like it's really moving that fast. And I think we've probably got another couple of quarters of sluggishness until it starts materializing. Hope that helps.

我們還沒有看到那麼多新的部署，因此，我們對主要 NEM 的基礎設施測試有些乏力，我原本預計它會在 6 月季度回升。看起來它實際上並沒有移動得那麼快。我認為，我們可能還需要經歷幾個季度的低迷期，直到它開始實現。希望有幫助。

Great. Yeah. That's really helpful and good to hear. As a follow-up on that, as you mentioned in your prepared remarks and given guidance, 1Q is going to be off from typical seasonality. How should we think about the rest of the year compared to regular seasonal be?

偉大的。是的。這真的很有幫助，很高興聽到。作為後續行動，正如您在準備好的評論和給予的指導中所提到的，第一季將與典型的季節性有所不同。與常規季節相比，我們應該如何看待一年中剩餘的時間？

Well, it's -- as I say, three quarters does not make a trend, although we were -- we saw a much stronger March quarter because usually, if you look at kind of a traditionally historically, the September quarter and the March quarter have been down quarters because if you purely follow the service provider spend, they kind of release their budgets at the end of February, and then it just kind of goes through the year. And so usually, some of them end their fiscal year in June, some end it in December, and there's usually were stronger June and December quarters, right?

嗯，正如我所說，三個季度並不能形成一種趨勢，儘管我們看到了更強勁的三月季度，因為通常情況下，如果你從傳統歷史來看，九月季度和三月季度都是下降的季度，因為如果你純粹跟踪服務提供商的支出，他們會在二月底發布預算，然後就這樣持續一整年。因此通常，有些公司的財政年度在 6 月結束，有些在 12 月結束，通常 6 月和 12 月的季度業績會更強勁，對嗎？

Interesting wise, when we look at the data center ecosystem, it's almost countercyclical. They have a stronger demand, it seems to be in the March quarter in September. They digest some of the deliveries in the June and December. So in a way, this thing has kind of offset it. But also with the data center now becoming a buyer for field instruments that further mitigates that thing.

有趣的是，當我們觀察資料中心生態系統時，它幾乎是逆週期的。他們的需求更強烈，似乎是在九月的三月季度。他們在六月和十二月消化了部分交付。所以從某種程度上來說，這件事在某種程度上抵消了它。而且，隨著資料中心現在成為現場儀器的買家，這種情況也進一步緩解。

So -- for us, the only kind of cyclical thing left that I see is the -- our optical business, where you follow the cyclicality of 3D sensing for the consumer, and there's a cyclicality for anti-counterfeiting with certain parts of the year stronger versus the other.

所以 - 對我們來說，我看到的唯一剩下的周期性的東西是 - 我們的光學業務，你可以遵循消費者 3D 感應的周期性，並且防偽也具有周期性，一年中的某些時候比其他時候更強。

So I'd say we are going to -- is our cyclicality over I don't think so. I think it's just going to be more muted and more balanced. And if I look at the aerospace and defense, it's a design win-driven business. So once you win platform and customer goes in production, it's actually fairly predictable linear orders that come in for these major programs. So I do expect all these new businesses are growing for us. We probably would see less volatility quarter-on-quarter than has been in the past when we were heavily exposed to the service providers.

所以我想說我們將會——我們的周期性結束了嗎？我不這麼認為。我認為它會變得更加柔和、更加平衡。而如果我看一下航空航太和國防，就會發現這是一個由設計勝利驅動的產業。因此，一旦你贏得平台並且客戶開始生產，這些主要項目的訂單實際上是相當可預測的線性訂單。因此我確實希望所有這些新業務都能為我們帶來成長。與過去我們大量依賴服務提供者時相比，我們可能看到的季度環比波動會更小。

Great, thank you.

太好了，謝謝。

Meta Marshall, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Meta Marshall。

Great thanks, and congrats, Oleg. Just a couple of questions. Just can we just get like a rough size of the data center business in Q4 would be helpful. And then just kind of the contribution of Inertial Labs to kind of the Q1 guide would be helpful. Thanks.

非常感謝，恭喜你，奧列格。僅有幾個問題。我們能否大致了解第四季資料中心業務的規模會很有幫助。那麼 Inertial Labs 對 Q1 指南的貢獻將會很有幫助。謝謝。

So let's just talk about NSE, just to take purely NSE, leave OSP out. As it stands right now, with this thing roughly 50% of our revenue comes from service provider, and that's way down from close to 90% when I joined this company and about 30% is what I would call the data center ecosystem, so it's semis, modules, equipment vendors and data center operators, right, and also includes some of the enterprise customers.

因此，我們只討論 NSE，只討論純粹的 NSE，而不討論 OSP。就目前情況而言，我們大約 50% 的收入來自服務提供商，而當我加入這家公司時，這一比例已大幅下降，大約 30% 是我所說的數據中心生態系統，包括半導體、模組、設備供應商和數據中心運營商，對，還包括一些企業客戶。

And I'd say 20% is the aerospace and defense. If I look back even like a year ago, the 50% was probably closer to 60% and even over 60% and the others were probably around 20% and below 20% for aerospace and defense. So all segments have grown. I would say the service provider, I would say, gradual recovery thus far. And we do think it's going to accelerate in the coming quarters with a number of these big fiber deployments that are being planned.

我認為 20% 是航空航太和國防領域。如果我回顧一年前的情況，50% 可能接近 60% 甚至超過 60%，而其他領域在航空航太和國防領域可能在 20% 左右或以下。因此所有部分都實現了成長。我想說的是，服務提供者迄今為止正在逐步復甦。我們確實認為，隨著大量大型光纖部署的規劃，未來幾季這一成長將會加速。

But it's really the, I would say, data center and aerospace have grown quite significantly. And with the acquisition of Inertial Labs, we really have that segment growing very, very rapidly. So I would say -- so it's a -- exiting June quarter, I would say 50, 30, 20. And I would expect, if you look at a year from now, if I had to look, I would say maybe will be a bit less than 50%, and the other segments will be a bit bigger because they're just growing faster than the service provider sector.

但我想說的是，資料中心和航空航太確實取得了顯著的成長。隨著對 Inertial Labs 的收購，我們確實在這個領域實現了非常非常迅速的成長。所以我想說——所以這是一個——截至六月季度，我會說 50、30、20。而且我預計，如果展望一年後，我會說這個數字可能會略低於 50%，而其他部分會更大一些，因為它們的成長速度比服務提供者部門更快。

Sorry. Regarding your question, Inertial Labs, if you recall, when we announced the transaction, we mentioned around $50 million run rate a year. It's tracking above this number. However, both the fourth quarter and the number that we baked into the first quarter is also kind of including some growth from the base aerospace and defense business. It's not all about Inertial Labs.

對不起。關於您的問題，Inertial Labs，如果您還記得的話，當我們宣布交易時，我們提到每年的運行率約為 5000 萬美元。它正在追蹤這個數字以上。然而，第四季和第一季的數據也都包含了基礎航空航太和國防業務的一些成長。這不僅與慣性實驗室有關。

Okay, great. Thank you.

好的，太好了。謝謝。

Andrew Spinola, UBS.

瑞銀的安德魯·斯皮諾拉。

Thanks. I wanted to ask a similar question for Q1. I guess if the normal seasonality would have been down, I don't know, 5%, something like that from Q4 to Q1, how would you sort of describe the upside to that, which was the bigger contributor between data center and aerospace and defense. Can you split out which -- how big the contribution was to that upside?

謝謝。我想針對 Q1 提出一個類似的問題。我想，如果正常的季節性下降，我不知道，5%，從第四季度到第一季這樣的水平，你會如何描述其中的好處，哪個是資料中心和航空航天和國防之間更大的貢獻者。您能否分出哪些因素對這上漲的貢獻有多大？

No, I think it's kind of getting into the segmentation that we don't disclose. So I mean, they were both very strong.

不，我認為這有點像我們未披露的細分。所以我的意思是，他們都非常強大。

Okay. Fair enough. Just trying to understand, but I wanted to ask a margin question on NSE, you're still in kind of the low -- I guess, what, mid-single digits here for Q1. Kind of what do you think you can get that margin to an NSE? What sort of revenue do you need to get there? What's your longer-term thinking on the upside to that margin.

好的。很公平。只是想了解一下，但我想問一個關於 NSE 的保證金問題，你們的利潤率仍然處於低位 - 我想，第一季的利潤率大概在個位數中間。您認為您可以為 NSE 帶來什麼樣的利潤？你需要什麼樣的收入才能達到這個目標？您對於這利潤率的長期上漲有何看法？

So on NSE, as that business kind of recovers -- if you look at it, just prior to the telecom meltdown in the September of calendar '22, we have approached 20% operating margin on the NSE business unit. And that is before it had significant data center exposure and aerospace and defense. So data center margins are somewhat higher than the service kind of the field instrumentation. However, the aerospace defense is a bit lower. So it's -- so in a way, they kind of offset each other. So net-net, NSE will probably stay in the low 60s gross margin.

因此，就 NSE 而言，隨著業務的復甦——如果你看一下，就在 2022 年 9 月電信業崩潰之前，我們的 NSE 業務部門的營業利潤率已經接近 20%。而這還是在該公司涉足資料中心、航空航太和國防領域之前。因此，資料中心的利潤率略高於現場儀器儀表的服務類型。不過航天防禦稍微低一點。所以從某種程度上來說，它們有點互相抵消。因此，總體而言，NSE 的毛利率可能會保持在 60% 以下。

But I would say -- I think that's pretty much, I would say, the profile of the margins. So when we look at that and we obviously made some acquisitions. I think as we continue to grow in data center and military space and a recovery -- continued recovery in the service provider, I think our first goal is to move comfortably into mid- to high teens and then into the 20s longer term.

但我想說——我認為這基本上就是利潤的概況。因此，當我們考慮這一點時，我們顯然進行了一些收購。我認為，隨著我們在資料中心和軍事領域的持續成長以及服務提供者的持續復甦，我們的首要目標是順利進入中高水平，然後長期進入 20 多歲。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Mehdi Hosseini.

梅赫迪·胡賽尼。

Yeah, sir, thanks for taking my follow up questions. Oleg, it's great that you have the fiber and helps you with a better than seasonal churn into the new fiscal year. But I'm a little bit cautious as to what happens to the March quarter when cloud service providers close the calendar year. Should we see the typical seasonality that happens in September or Q1 fiscal year for you happens in the March quarter?

是的，先生，感謝您回答我的後續問題。奧列格，很高興您擁有這樣的才能，並幫助您在新的財政年度取得比季節性更好的業績。但我對雲端服務供應商結束日曆年時三月季度的情況有些謹慎。我們是否應該看到 9 月發生的典型季節性現象，或者您財政年度第一季發生的典型季節性現象發生在 3 月？

I fully expect -- if I purely take the service provider by without any kind of blue birds where they have some big program they want to spend. I think it's -- I mean there's always going to be some cyclicality with that because let's assume a steady state, the service providers will always buy a bit less in September and March. But what we are having is like if you look at the enterprise and data center, actually March and September are stronger quarters for them.

我完全預料到——如果我純粹選擇服務提供者，而沒有任何他們想要花費的大型專案。我認為——我總是會有一些週期性，因為假設一個穩定狀態，服務提供者在 9 月和 3 月的購買量總是會少一些。但如果你看看企業和資料中心，你會發現三月和九月其實是它們表現更強勁的季度。

So as I said, I mean, are you fully going to eliminate any kind of seasonality. I think you're always going to have some of it. It's just going to be less and less pronounced. I mean so maybe in sort of a down quarter, you may be slightly down or a flattish quarter on some of these things. But I do think some of our new businesses, the growth there in the near term will be probably offsetting most of the -- whatever seasonality.

所以正如我所說的，我的意思是，你是否要完全消除任何季節性因素。我認為你總是會擁有一些的。只不過它會變得越來越不明顯。我的意思是，也許在某種下滑的季度中，某些方面可能會略有下滑或持平。但我確實認為，我們的一些新業務在短期內的成長可能會抵消大部分季節性因素的影響。

Plus, if I look at it, if I were to believe all these aggressive spend pronouncements that are coming from fiber operators and others, I think I would imagine there's going to be some strength in their spend that may spill over into the March quarter. So it may be a bit more muted, but it's too early to talk because I really don't have any visibility into March. I do have some visibility in December, and it looks very healthy in that respect.

另外，如果我相信光纖運營商和其他公司所宣布的所有這些積極的支出計劃，那麼我認為他們的支出將有一定的增長，並且可能會延續到三月份季度。因此，情況可能會更加低調，但現在談論還為時過早，因為我真的不知道三月會發生什麼。我確實對 12 月的情況有所了解，從這方面來看，情況看起來非常健康。

Got it. Okay. And then double-clicking on OSP. It seems to me that there's still a little bit of a lingering ASP pressure, especially on the 3D sensing and then I'm looking at the margin profile for the Q1 fiscal year. Am I right with that thought process?

知道了。好的。然後雙擊OSP。在我看來，仍然存在一些揮之不去的 ASP 壓力，特別是在 3D 感應方面，然後我正在研究第一季財年的利潤率狀況。我的思考過程正確嗎？

And what are the things that you're doing to mitigate that? And given -- as a follow-on to it, given the fact that overall OS smartphone unit shipment has been kind of a low single digit over the past couple of years. Could we be hitting the bottom in terms of the 3D sensing opportunities for you? And if there is any uptick in OS unit shipment, could that also help mitigate the ASP pressure? Thank you.

您正在採取哪些措施來緩解這種情況？並且考慮到——作為後續情況，考慮到過去幾年中整體作業系統智慧型手機的出貨量一直處於較低的個位數。我們是否可以為您觸及 3D 感測機會的底線？如果作業系統單位出貨量上升，是否也有助於緩解平均售價壓力？謝謝。

Well, so I mean, when we think about the ASP pressure on, let's say, 3D sensing, consumer business, right? I mean, we've been taking down costs pretty good. I mean the reality is our margins, we have been able to maintain margins in that business. I mean the challenge there is volume. We are very highly penetrated in that market segment.

嗯，我的意思是，當我們考慮 ASP 壓力時，比如說 3D 感測、消費者業務，對嗎？我的意思是，我們已經大大降低了成本。我的意思是現實情況是我們的利潤率，我們已經能夠維持該業務的利潤率。我的意思是，挑戰在於數量。我們在該市場的滲透率非常高。

And it's kind of fully saturated. So the margins don't suffer because we are able to reduce the cost to keep up with the ASP reduction. I think what's probably has been bigger problem there is the volume hasn't really grown because I'd say it's a good news, bad news when you're highly penetrated at the particular customer. On good news, you have the customer, on the bad news if the customer is not seeing much volume growth year-on-year, then it's not happening.

它已經完全飽和了。因此利潤率不會受到影響，因為我們能夠降低成本以跟上平均售價的下降。我認為可能更大的問題是銷售並沒有真正成長，因為當你高度滲透特定客戶時，我認為這是好消息，也是壞消息。好消息是，你有客戶，壞消息是，如果客戶沒有看到銷量比去年同期大幅成長，那就沒有發生這種情況。

So I think that's not the case. I think what you are seeing, the bigger impact on margins is really the mix in the anti-counterfeiting products between the older pigment technologies and the newer, and depending on the time of the year or major customers, you are building either the lower margin mix product or the higher-margin mix product. And that's the -- I'd say that's probably a bigger swing factor in the quarter-to-quarter gross margin on OSP.

所以我認為事實並非如此。我認為您所看到的對利潤的更大影響實際上是防偽產品中舊顏料技術和新技術的混合，並且根據一年中的時間或主要客戶，您要么生產利潤較低的混合產品，要么生產利潤較高的混合產品。這就是——我想說這可能是 OSP 季度毛利率的一個更大的波動因素。

The second one is, I do believe ASP has stabilized. OSP is around $300 million run rate. We are starting to grow a little bit. We are diversifying into new segments. We have a number of very promising applications and market segments that we are entering that in two to three years, we'll start bringing in some meaningful revenue, and we'll see that segment to start growing again. So I think I'd say for OSP, I think this fiscal year is kind of stabilization and gradual growth and then growing faster as the new segments start materializing for that business.

第二點是，我確實相信 ASP 已經穩定下來。OSP 的運作率約為 3 億美元。我們開始一點點成長。我們正在向新的領域多元化發展。我們正在進入一些非常有前景的應用和細分市場，兩到三年後，我們將開始帶來一些有意義的收入，我們將看到這些細分市場再次開始成長。因此，我認為對於 OSP 來說，本財年將呈現穩定和逐步成長的態勢，隨著新業務領域的出現，成長速度將更快。

And maybe, just to echo what Oleg said, I mean, OSP generally is a high fall-through business. And it's all volume based. I mean the ASP is not a factor and not in our projection right now. It's all about.

也許，只是為了呼應奧列格所說的話，我的意思是，OSP 通常是一項高失敗率的業務。這一切都是基於音量的。我的意思是 ASP 不是一個因素，目前不在我們的預測之內。一切都是關於。

And that's where we have our biggest fixed cost. I mean if you see with those factories that's a lot of iron sitting on the floor.

這就是我們最大的固定成本。我的意思是，如果你看到那些工廠，你會發現有很多鐵堆在地板上。

But Oleg, just as a quick follow-up. You're not in any impact from a change in form factor, telephone or foldable, you -- and to me, if you're not factoring that in, maybe there is no change in 3D sensing or you're just being conservative?

但是奧列格，只是作為一個快速的後續行動。您沒有受到外形尺寸、電話或可折疊設備變化的任何影響——對我來說，如果您沒有考慮到這一點，那麼 3D 感應可能就不會發生變化，或者您只是比較保守？

Yeah. Well, I mean, we are talking about today. I mean, clearly, there's a road map. We have new products on a road map. I don't want to get into the specifics, but there is a lot of new engineering, which will probably result in some of the ASP appreciation as we implement these new form factors and some of these new opportunities because it's basically new products that need to be developed and I don't want to go into specifics on that. So right now, we're talking about mainly what we are shipping in production, not what's on the road map.

是的。嗯，我的意思是，我們正在談論今天。我的意思是，顯然有一個路線圖。我們有新產品在路線圖上。我不想談論細節，但是有很多新工程，當我們實施這些新的形式因素和一些新的機會時，這可能會導致 ASP 升值，因為這基本上是需要開發的新產品，我不想談論細節。因此現在，我們主要討論的是生產中運送的產品，而不是路線圖上的產品。

Okay, great, thanks for the details.

好的，太好了，謝謝你的詳細資料。

Sure, thank you.

當然，謝謝。

That concludes our Q&A session. I will now turn the call back over to Vibhuti Nayar.

我們的問答環節到此結束。現在我將把電話轉回給 Vibhuti Nayar。

Thank you, Bella. This concludes our earnings call for today. Thank you all for joining. Have a good afternoon.

謝謝你，貝拉。今天的收益電話會議到此結束。感謝大家的加入。祝您下午愉快。

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining me now disconnect. Everyone have a great night.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝大家現在加入我斷開連線。祝大家有個愉快的夜晚。