Viavi Solutions Inc (VIAV) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone. My name is Emma. Welcome to the Viavi Solutions fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) I will now turn the conference over to Vibhuti Nayar, Viavi Solutions, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

大家好。我叫艾瑪。歡迎參加 Viavi Solutions 第四季和 2024 年全年財報電話會議。（操作員指示）我現在將會議轉交給 Viavi Solutions 投資者關係主管 Vibhuti Nayar。請繼續。

Thank you, Emma. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Viavi Solutions fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 earnings call. My name is Vibhuti Nayar, Head of Investor Relations for Viavi Solutions. And with me on today's call is Oleg Khaykin, our President and CEO; and Ilan Daskal, our CFO.

謝謝你，艾瑪。大家下午好，歡迎參加 Viavi Solutions 第四季和 2024 年全年財報電話會議。我叫 Vibhuti Nayar，Viavi Solutions 投資者關係主管。與我一起參加今天電話會議的是我們的總裁兼執行長 Oleg Khaykin；和我們的財務長 Ilan Daskal。

Please note, this call will include forward-looking statements about the company's financial performance. These statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from our current expectations and estimations. We encourage you to review our most recent annual report and SEC filings, particularly the risk factors described in those filings. The forward-looking statements, including the guidance that we provide during this call, are valid only as of today. Viavi undertakes no obligation to update the statements.

請注意，本次電話會議將包括有關公司財務表現的前瞻性陳述。這些陳述存在風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與我們目前的預期和估計有重大差異。我們鼓勵您查看我們最新的年度報告和 SEC 文件，特別是這些文件中所述的風險因素。前瞻性陳述，包括我們在本次電話會議中提供的指導，僅截至今天有效。Viavi 不承擔更新聲明的義務。

Please also note that, unless we state otherwise, all results discussed on this call except revenue, are non-GAAP. We reconcile these non-GAAP results to our preliminary GAAP financials and discuss their usefulness and limitations in today's earnings release. The release, as well as our supplemental earnings slides, which include historical financial tables, are available on Viavi's website at www.investor.viavisolutions.com.

另請注意，除非我們另有說明，否則本次電話會議討論的所有結果（除收入外）均為非公認會計準則。我們將這些非公認會計原則結果與我們初步的公認會計原則財務數據進行核對，並在今天的收益發布中討論它們的有用性和局限性。新聞稿以及我們的補充收益幻燈片（其中包括歷史財務表格）可在 Viavi 網站 www.investor.viavisolutions.com 上取得。

Finally, we are recording today's call. And we will meet the recording available on our website by 4:30 PM Pacific Time this evening. Now, I would like to turn the call over to Ilan.

最後，我們將今天的通話進行錄音。我們將於今晚太平洋時間下午 4:30 之前在我們的網站上提供錄音。現在，我想把電話轉給伊蘭。

Thank you, Vibhuti. Good afternoon, everyone. And now, I would like to review the results of the fourth quarter of fiscal year 2024. Net revenue for the quarter was $252 million, which was at the midpoint of our guidance range of $246 million to $258 million. Revenue was up sequentially by 2.4% and, on a year-over-year basis, was down 4.4%.

謝謝你，維布提。大家下午好。現在，我想回顧一下2024財年第四季的業績。該季度淨收入為 2.52 億美元，位於我們 2.46 億至 2.58 億美元指引範圍的中點。營收季增 2.4%，年減 4.4%。

Operating margin for the fourth quarter was 10.9%, which was above the midpoint of our guidance range of 9.5% to 11.8%. Operating margin increased 160 basis points from the prior quarter and, on a year-over-year basis, was down 80 basis points. EPS at $0.08 at the high end of our guidance range of $0.06 to $0.08 and was up $0.02 sequentially. On a year-over-year basis, EPS was down $0.02.

第四季營業利潤率為 10.9%，高於我們指引範圍 9.5% 至 11.8% 的中點。營業利益率較上季成長 160 個基點，較上季下降 80 個基點。每股收益為 0.08 美元，處於我們指導範圍 0.06 至 0.08 美元的上限，比上一季上漲 0.02 美元。每股收益較去年同期下降 0.02 美元。

For the full fiscal year, revenue was $1 billion, down 9.6% on a year-over-year basis, primarily due to conservative spend by service providers and NEMs. Operating margin for the full year was 11.5%, down 410 basis points from fiscal year 2023 and full year EPS was $0.33, down $0.22 from the prior year, primarily due to lower year-over-year revenue.

整個財年的收入為 10 億美元，年減 9.6%，這主要是由於服務提供者和 NEM 的保守支出。全年營業利益率為 11.5%，較 2023 財年下降 410 個基點，全年每股收益為 0.33 美元，較上年下降 0.22 美元，主要是由於年比收入下降。

Moving on to our fourth fiscal quarter results by business segment, NSE revenue for the quarter came in at $182.2 million, which is at the lower end of our guidance range of $179 million to $189 million. And on a year-over-year basis, NSE revenue was down 7.9% for the quarter.

接下來看我們按業務部門劃分的第四財季業績，該季度 NSE 收入為 1.822 億美元，處於我們 1.79 億至 1.89 億美元指導範圍的下限。與去年同期相比，NSE 本季營收下降了 7.9%。

NE revenue for the fourth quarter was $158.5 million, which is a 9.7% year-over-year decline as a result of continued conservative spend by service providers and NEMs. SE revenue was $23.7 million and up 5.8% from the same period last year, partially supported by revenue that was pushed out from Q3.

由於服務提供者和 NEM 持續保守支出，第四季度 NE 收入為 1.585 億美元，年減 9.7%。SE 營收為 2,370 萬美元，較去年同期成長 5.8%，部分受到第三季推出的營收的支撐。

NSE gross margin for the quarter was 62.1%, which is flat on a year-over-year basis. NE gross margin was 61.3%, which is a decline of 40 basis points as compared to the same period last year. SE gross margin was 67.5%, which is an increase of 190 basis points from the same period last year and was driven by product mix.

NSE 本季毛利率為 62.1%，與去年同期持平。NE毛利率為61.3%，較去年同期下降40個基點。SE毛利率為67.5%，較去年同期成長190個基點，主要受到產品結構的推動。

NSE's operating margin for the fourth quarter was 1.8%, which is an improvement of 360 basis points sequentially and 400 basis points lower than the same period last year. NSE's operating margin was at the low end of our guidance range of 1.4% to 3.6% due to lower revenue.

NSE第四季營業利益率為1.8%，較上一季提高360個基點，較去年同期下降400個基點。由於收入較低，NSE 的營業利潤率處於我們指導範圍 1.4% 至 3.6% 的低端。

OSP revenue for the quarter came in at $69.8 million, which was above the high end of our guidance range of $67 million to $69 million and was up 6.2% on a year-over-year basis as a result of strength across all products. OSP gross margin was 53%, which is an increase of 640 basis points from the same period last year and was primarily driven by higher revenue, favorable product mix, and production ramp at our new manufacturing facility in Chandler.

本季 OSP 營收為 6,980 萬美元，高於我們 6,700 萬至 6,900 萬美元指導範圍的上限，並且由於所有產品的強勁表現，同比增長 6.2%。OSP 毛利率為 53%，比去年同期成長 640 個基點，主要是由於收入增加、有利的產品組合以及我們位於錢德勒的新製造工廠的產量成長所推動。

OSP's operating margin was 34.8%, which is up 50 basis points sequentially and 530 basis points increase on a year-over-year basis as a result of the higher gross margin fall-through. OSP's operating margin exceeded the high end of our guidance range of 31% to 34%.

OSP 的營業利潤率為 34.8%，比上一季成長 50 個基點，由於毛利率下降，年增 530 個基點。OSP 的營業利潤率超出了我們指導範圍 31% 至 34% 的上限。

Moving on to the balance sheet and cash flow, total cash and short-term investments at the end of Q4 was $496.2 million compared to $486.1 million at the end of the third fiscal quarter of 2024. Cash flow from operating activities for the fourth quarter was $26.2 million versus $23.5 million in the same period last year.

轉向資產負債表和現金流，第四季末的現金和短期投資總額為 4.962 億美元，而 2024 年第三財季末為 4.861 億美元。第四季經營活動現金流量為 2,620 萬美元，去年同期為 2,350 萬美元。

During the quarter, we purchased 1.3 million shares of our stock for about $10 million. For the full year, we purchased 2.3 million shares for about $20 million. We have approximately $215 million remaining under our current authorized share repurchase program. The fully diluted share count for the quarter was 224.2 million shares, down from 224.6 million shares in the prior quarter and versus 225.5 million shares in our guidance for the fourth quarter.

本季度，我們以約 1,000 萬美元的價格購買了 130 萬股股票。全年我們以約 2,000 萬美元的價格買了 230 萬股股票。我們目前的授權股票回購計畫剩餘約 2.15 億美元。本季完全稀釋後的股票數量為 2.242 億股，低於上一季的 2.246 億股，也低於我們第四季指引中的 2.255 億股。

CapEx for the quarter was $3.8 million compared to $7.4 million in the same period last year when we were completing the construction of our new facility in Chandler. In June 2024, we initiated a restructuring and workforce reduction plan to improve operational efficiencies and better align with the current business needs.

本季的資本支出為 380 萬美元，而去年同期我們完成錢德勒新廠建設時的資本支出為 740 萬美元。2024 年 6 月，我們啟動了重組和裁員計劃，以提高營運效率並更好地滿足當前的業務需求。

We expect approximately 6% of our global workforce to be impacted and estimate to incur approximately $15 million of restructuring charges in connection with this plan. As a result of this initiative, we anticipate to achieve by the end of fiscal 2025 an annualized cost savings run rate of approximately $25 million, which will mainly benefit our operating expenses.

我們預計全球約 6% 的員工將受到影響，並預計將產生與該計劃相關的約 1500 萬美元的重組費用。透過這項舉措，我們預計到 2025 財年末，年化成本節省率將達到約 2,500 萬美元，這將主要有利於我們的營運支出。

Moving on to our guidance, we expect that the first half of fiscal 2025 will continue to experience a conservative spend environment by service providers and NEMs. That said, we believe that we are nearing the bottom of the down cycle and we expect a gradual recovery in demand in the second half of this fiscal year.

繼續我們的指導，我們預計 2025 財年上半年服務提供者和 NEM 將繼續經歷保守的支出環境。儘管如此，我們認為我們正接近下行週期的底部，預計本財年下半年需求將逐步復甦。

Given the lingering softness, we are guiding for the first fiscal quarter of 2025 revenue in the range of $235 million and $245 million. Operating margin is expected to be 10.8%, plus or minus 90 basis points, and EPS to be between $0.05 and $0.07.

鑑於持續的疲軟狀況，我們預計 2025 年第一財季的營收將在 2.35 億美元至 2.45 億美元之間。營業利潤率預計為 10.8%，上下浮動 90 個基點，每股收益將在 0.05 美元至 0.07 美元之間。

We expect NSE revenue to be approximately $164 million, plus or minus $4 million, with a breakeven operating margin plus or minus 100 basis points. OSP revenue is expected to be approximately $76 million, plus or minus $1 million, with an operating margin of 34%, plus or minus 100 basis points.

我們預計 NSE 收入約 1.64 億美元，上下浮動 400 萬美元，損益平衡營業利潤率上下浮動 100 個基點。OSP收入預計約7,600萬美元，上下浮動100萬美元，營業利益率為34%，上下浮動100個基點。

Our tax expenses for the first fiscal quarter are expected to be about $8 million, plus or minus $500,000 as a result of jurisdictional mix. We expect other income and expenses to reflect a net expense of approximately $3.5 million, and the share count is expected to be about 224.2 million shares. With that, I will turn the call over to Oleg. Oleg.

我們第一財季的稅務支出預計約為 800 萬美元，由於管轄權組合的原因，上下浮動 50 萬美元。我們預計其他收入和支出將反映約 350 萬美元的淨支出，預計股票數量約為 2.242 億股。這樣，我會將電話轉給奧列格。奧列格。

Thank you, Ilan. Viavi end market spend environment continues to be conservative, particularly the North American service providers. Despite these headwinds, our revenue came in at the midpoint of our guidance, with stronger OSP revenue, partially offsetting weaker NSE demand. Our EPS was at the higher end of our guidance range.

謝謝你，伊蘭。Viavi 終端市場支出環境仍然保守，尤其是北美服務供應商。儘管有這些不利因素，我們的收入仍處於我們指導的中點，OSP 收入強勁，部分抵消了 NSE 需求疲軟的影響。我們的每股收益處於指導範圍的高端。

Starting with NSE, the fiscal fourth-quarter NSE revenue came in at the lower end of our guidance range. NSE revenue declined 8% on year-over-year basis, driven by the softer demand from service providers and wireless NEMs. We believe that decline in NSE demand is bottoming out and we should start to see a recovery in the second half of the fiscal year.

從 NSE 開始，第四財季 NSE 收入處於我們指導範圍的下限。由於服務提供者和無線 NEM 需求疲軟，NSE 營收年減 8%。我們認為 NSE 需求的下降正在觸底，我們應該會在本財年下半年開始看到復甦。

A bit more color on that, the first is field instruments demand remained largely at the maintenance levels due to the absence of major network build-outs and upgrades by Tier 1 service providers, particularly in North America. That said, the investment in data center fiber internet working by Tier 2 operators, together with recent comments by major service providers regarding their fiber plants, leads us to expect a pickup in field instruments demand in the second half of fiscal 2025.

對此有更多的色彩，首先是由於一級服務提供者（尤其是在北美）缺乏主要網路擴建和升級，現場儀器需求主要保持在維護水準。也就是說，二級營運商對資料中心光纖網路的投資，加上主要服務供應商最近對其光纖工廠的評論，使我們預計 2025 財年下半年現場儀器需求將有所回升。

Our wireless demand continues to be impacted by sharply reduced R&D and production CapEx spend by major wireless NEMs to have reduced investments in response to significant cutbacks in 5G deployment by wireless operators. One positive recent trend we are seeing is the emergence of many new customers pursuing ORAN development. However, their cumulative spend is still relatively small.

我們的無線需求持續受到主要無線網路設備製造商研發和生產資本支出大幅減少的影響，這些企業為了應對無線營運商大幅削減 5G 部署而減少了投資。我們最近看到的一個積極趨勢是出現了許多追求 ORAN 開發的新客戶。然而，他們的累計支出仍然相對較小。

Other parts of NSE are faring much better. Fiber lab and production demand was slightly up. We expect the upcoming transition to 1.6 terabits and ramp of PCI Express 6.0 to drive recovery and growth during the fiscal '25 for Fiber 11 production.

NSE 的其他部分錶現要好得多。纖維實驗室和生產需求略有上升。我們預計即將到來的 1.6 太比特過渡和 PCI Express 6.0 的提升將推動 Fiber 11 生產在 25 財年的復甦和成長。

Mil-aero business continues to be a bright spot, seeing year-over-year growth in revenue driven by strong customer demand for communications, avionics, and positioning, navigation, and timing products. We expect this business segment to enjoy strong demand throughout fiscal '25.

軍用航空業務繼續成為亮點，在客戶對通訊、航空電子設備以及定位、導航和授時產品的強勁需求的推動下，營收年增。我們預計該業務部門在整個 25 財年將享受強勁的需求。

SE segment grew year on year, helped by enterprise orders that were pushed out from Q3. We are seeing a lot of interest in our AIOps products and expected to be a growth driver for fiscal '25 and beyond.

得益於第三季推出的企業訂單，SE 業務較去年同期成長。我們看到人們對我們的 AIOps 產品很感興趣，並預計將成為 25 財年及以後的成長動力。

As we look at Q1 fiscal '25, we expect a seasonally weaker demand driven by similar dynamics as in Q4. Continued demand weakness from the service providers and wireless NEMs leading to overall weaker NE and seasonally weaker SC revenue, offset by continued strength in Fiber 11 production and mil-aero business. Looking ahead at fiscal '25 for NSE, we expect the conservative spend environment to persist for the remainder of calendar '24 and a gradual demand recovery in the first half of calendar '25.

當我們審視 25 財年第一季時，我們預期需求會因與第四季類似的動態而出現季節性疲軟。服務提供者和無線 NEM 的需求持續疲軟，導致 NE 整體疲軟和 SC 收入季節性疲軟，但 Fiber 11 生產和軍用航空業務的持續強勁抵消了這一影響。展望 NSE 的 25 財年，我們預計保守的支出環境將在 24 日曆年的剩餘時間內持續存在，並在 25 日曆年的上半年需求逐步復甦。

Now turning to OSP, the fiscal fourth quarter OSP grew on a year-over-year basis, mainly driven by higher demand for anti-counterfeiting and 3D sensing products. Overall, OSP results exceeded the higher end of our guidance range.

現在轉向 OSP，第四財季 OSP 年成長，主要是受到防偽和 3D 感測產品需求增加的推動。總體而言，OSP 結果超出了我們指導範圍的上限。

Looking ahead, we expect OSP to be sequentially up in the September quarter, mostly driven by seasonally stronger demand for 3D sensing products. Overall, we expect fiscal '25 OSP demand to be similar to fiscal '24.

展望未來，我們預計 OSP 將在 9 月季度環比上升，這主要是由於 3D 感測產品的季節性需求強勁所致。整體而言，我們預計 25 財年 OSP 需求將與 24 財年相似。

To summarize, the fiscal '24 was a challenging year for Viavi and the industry. While we expect the soft market environment to persist for the remainder of calendar '24, we anticipate the start of gradual recovery in first half of calendar '25.

總而言之，24 財年對 Viavi 和整個產業來說是充滿挑戰的一年。雖然我們預計疲軟的市場環境將在 24 年剩餘時間內持續，但我們預計在 25 年上半年開始逐步復甦。

I would like to thank my Viavi team for managing through this challenging environment and express my appreciation to our employees, customers, and shareholders for their support. With that, I'll turn it over to Vibhuti.

我要感謝我的 Viavi 團隊在這個充滿挑戰的環境中的表現，並對我們的員工、客戶和股東的支持表示感謝。這樣，我就把它交給 Vibhuti。

We're ready for the Q&A. Emma.

我們已準備好進行問答。艾瑪.

(Operator Instructions) Ruben Roy, Stifel.

（操作員說明）Ruben Roy，Stifel。

Thank you. Hi, everybody. Oleg, thanks for the detail around how you're thinking about the near-term environment and then the first half of next calendar year. I guess, can you drill in a little bit on how you're thinking about inventory levels at your customers by field instruments and then also lab instruments. And then I had just one or two quick follow-ups. Thank you.

謝謝。大家好。奧列格，感謝您詳細介紹了您對近期環境以及明年上半年的看法。我想，您能否深入了解您如何透過現場儀器和實驗室儀器來考慮客戶的庫存水準。然後我只進行了一兩次快速跟進。謝謝。

Sure. I mean, there's really no inventory to speak of. I mean, all of our deliveries for field instruments to our customers are just in time and it's mainly -- coincides with whenever they are doing any kind of major expansion projects or technology upgrade or things like that.

當然。我的意思是，確實沒有庫存可言。我的意思是，我們向客戶交付的所有現場儀器都非常及時，而且主要與他們正在進行任何重大擴建項目或技術升級或類似事情的時間一致。

There's also obviously -- when I say we see our revenue at the maintenance level, there is this constant churn. A big chunk of our quarterly revenue is just churn. And it's just basically the law of large numbers, big installed base. The batteries die, equipment gets damaged, and they periodically replace whatever needs to be replaced.

顯然，當我說我們的收入處於維持水準時，就會出現持續的流失。我們季度收入的很大一部分只是流失。這基本上就是大數定律、大安裝基礎。電池耗盡，設備損壞，他們會定期更換需要更換的東西。

And it's been a fairly consistent number for the past several quarters, which makes me feel a bit better because it just shows you that the first thing customers come back to is they start replacing what's been damaged. And as they start looking at the major new projects and we've heard, obviously, from AT&T, but also we are seeing Tier 2 players like -- there was Lumen recently, had a call and there's others. There's a lot of interest for developing fiber internet work in between all those hyperscale data centers. And these are the players that are actually running projects today and they're placing orders.

在過去的幾個季度中，這個數字相當穩定，這讓我感覺好一點，因為它只是表明客戶回來的第一件事就是他們開始更換損壞的東西。當他們開始考慮主要的新項目時，我們顯然已經聽到了來自 AT&T 的消息，但我們也看到了 2 級參與者——最近有 Lumen，接到了電話，還有其他公司。人們對在所有這些超大規模資料中心之間開發光纖網路工作很感興趣。這些是今天實際運行項目並下訂單的參與者。

And clearly, so from that perspective, I don't know to what extent they have equipment inventories for networking gear, but I imagine that is also winding down. And clearly, as they start talking about the -- resuming their expansion and technology upgrade, that is what we view as a positive news for us.

顯然，從這個角度來看，我不知道他們的網路設備庫存有多大，但我想這也在逐漸減少。顯然，當他們開始談論恢復擴張和技術升級時，我們認為這對我們來說是一個積極的消息。

On the 11 production, that is also pretty much just-in-time-type business. So when an R&D organization sees a need for new equipment, and it usually comes in when they are developing next-generation product, they start placing orders in the fiber area and the high-speed compute area.

在 11 號製作中，這也幾乎是即時型業務。因此，當研發組織看到對新設備的需求時（通常是在開發下一代產品時出現），他們就會開始在光纖領域和高速運算領域下訂單。

High-speed computer is driving PCI Express 6.0 and the upcoming 1.6 terabits. I mean, the budgets are open and the CapEx is flowing, and we are seeing purely -- as soon as the equipment is available, they want it. So in that respect, we feel pretty good.

高速電腦正在推動 PCI Express 6.0 和即將推出的 1.6 太比特。我的意思是，預算是開放的，資本支出是流動的，我們純粹看到——一旦設備可用，他們就會想要它。所以從這方面來說，我們感覺很好。

But there's also, probably further away in the second half of the fiscal year or first half of the calendar '25, the 1.6 terabits is flowing into the module manufacturing. And we're seeing a lot of interest from the major AI players to drive upgrades in their contract manufacturing factories to be able to deploy 1.6 terabit modules and products.

但也可能在更遠的時間，即本財年下半年或 25 日曆年上半年，1.6 太比特將流入模組製造。我們看到主要人工智慧廠商對推動其合約製造工廠的升級非常感興趣，以便能夠部署 1.6 太比特模組和產品。

And for the first time, it's really the data centers that are driving the transition to the higher speeds rather than service providers. When we saw 400 gig, 800 gig, they were driven by equipment vendors to service providers. This time, it's very much the data centers that are driving the transition to the higher speed, speeds of the products. And that's why we're feeling much more bullish on our fiber lab production equipment. So that's kind of more color on those two areas.

第一次，真正推動向更高速度過渡的是資料中心，而不是服務提供者。當我們看到 400 兆、800 兆時，它們是由設備供應商推動到服務提供者。這一次，很大程度上是資料中心推動了產品向更高速度的轉變。這就是為什麼我們對我們的纖維實驗室生產設備更加看好。所以這兩個區域的顏色變多了。

Yeah, very helpful, Oleg. And you hit my follow-up on the 1.6 terabit side, so thanks. I guess, and then I'll shift over to just a quick follow-up for Ilan on the restructuring. Ilan, you talked about the OpEx savings through the fiscal year. Maybe you can put a finer point on sort of how you're thinking about that between R&D and projects versus sales and marketing and how we should kind of think about modeling that through the year in terms of the savings as it hits the model. Thank you.

是的，非常有幫助，奧列格。您在 1.6 太比特方面完成了我的後續工作，非常感謝。我想，然後我將轉向對宜蘭的重組進行快速跟進。Ilan，您談到了整個財年的營運支出節省。也許您可以更詳細地說明您如何考慮研發和專案與銷售和行銷之間的關係，以及我們應該如何考慮在全年節省的成本方面進行建模。謝謝。

Sure. So thanks for the question. And obviously, as I mentioned earlier in the prepared remarks, most of it will be a reduction of the overall operating expenses. We don't see any of our major R&D projects being impacted or delayed due to this initiative. So these are across the board of the operating expenses, but none of the initiatives that we drive in terms of development will be impacted. And also, as I mentioned earlier, the full realization will be by the end of the year, so it's more of a 2026 kind of net spend there.

當然。謝謝你的提問。顯然，正如我之前在準備好的演講中提到的，其中大部分將是整體營運費用的減少。我們沒有看到我們任何主要的研發項目因這項舉措而受到影響或延遲。因此，這些都是全面的營運支出，但我們在開發方面推動的任何舉措都不會受到影響。而且，正如我之前提到的，全面實現將在今年年底完成，因此更多的是 2026 年的淨支出。

Yeah, thank you.

是的，謝謝。

Ryan Koontz, Needham.

瑞安·孔茨，李約瑟。

Great. Thanks for the question. Certainly appreciate your comments about 5G, that doesn't sound like it's coming back around anytime soon. I wanted to double-click a little bit on your comment around data center interconnect for fiber players. Are you seeing demand there from the data center operators who are leasing dark fiber or are they leasing actual connectivity and bandwidth from the service providers on a wholesale basis?

偉大的。謝謝你的提問。當然感謝您對 5G 的評論，聽起來它不會很快回歸。我想雙擊一下您對光纖廠商資料中心互連的評論。您是否看到資料中心營運商租賃暗光纖的需求，或者他們是否從服務提供者批發租賃實際連接和頻寬？

So I mean, it varies across different data centers, operators. But I mean, for the biggest ones, they basically build data centers and then they pick a vendor who lays fiber and they lease those fibers from them. And what's a little difference is, when a service provider lays a fiber, there's a lot of dark fiber. And they generally don't connect the dark fiber until they need it maybe years later.

所以我的意思是，不同的資料中心和營運商的情況有所不同。但我的意思是，對於最大的公司來說，他們基本上建立資料中心，然後選擇鋪設光纖的供應商，然後從他們那裡租用這些光纖。有一點不同的是，當服務供應商鋪設光纖時，會有很多暗光纖。他們通常不會連接暗光纖，直到幾年後他們需要它。

What we're seeing with data center, they're laying fiber. And they also initially started doing the same thing, just lay the fiber, connect a few strands, and I'm going to lease them. And then, when I need it, you turn it on. What they're finding is that, they need to turn on additional fibers. And additional bandwidth comes a lot faster than everybody thought. And more importantly, it becomes also much more sensitive, the quality of performance of that fiber, right, in terms of the latency, the speeds, and things like that.

我們在資料中心看到的，他們正在鋪設光纖。他們最初也開始做同樣的事情，只是鋪設光纖，連接幾股線，然後我將租用它們。然後，當我需要它時，你打開它。他們發現，他們需要開啟額外的光纖。而且額外的頻寬來得比大家想像的要快得多。更重要的是，光纖的性能品質也變得更加敏感，在延遲、速度等方面。

So they're actually putting pretty strict service level agreements as to what performance that fiber needs to deliver. And that actually plays very much to our strength because what they are realizing is traditional built fiber is fairly unreliable and you cannot turn it on as you need it, right?

因此，他們實際上對光纖需要提供的性能製定了相當嚴格的服務等級協定。這實際上對我們的優勢發揮了很大的作用，因為他們意識到傳統的光纖相當不可靠，你無法在需要時打開它，對嗎？

So we are now working with the data center operators and with the people who provision fiber to bridge this gap to make sure as the fiber gets deployed. You actually characterize it and you know exactly what you're getting for. So -- and then you can monitor it throughout the life. And when you need to turn on the next wavelength, it happens very quickly, which usually means you actually connect everything. And you only -- and by just training on, it becomes a software switch rather than rolling a truck and starting to connect the fibers and then finding out that things may not work or things like that.

因此，我們現在正在與資料中心營運商以及提供光纖的人員合作，以彌合這一差距，以確保光纖已部署。你實際上描述了它的特徵，並且你確切地知道你要得到什麼。所以——然後你就可以終生監控它。當您需要打開下一個波長時，它會發生得非常快，這通常意味著您實際上連接了所有東西。而你只需通過培訓，它就變成了一個軟體開關，而不是開著卡車開始連接光纖，然後發現事情可能不起作用或類似的事情。

So we are seeing the level of evolution and forethought in deploying fiber network truly changing the traditional paradigm that the service provider has been doing. And I guess it's the Tier 2 players who are responding more proactively to the demand of data center operators and they're the ones who are winning the business. And I think they view it as their new business model going forward.

因此，我們看到部署光纖網路的發展水平和深思熟慮真正改變了服務提供者一直在做的傳統模式。我猜想是二級供應商更積極回應資料中心營運商的需求，他們才是贏得業務的人。我認為他們將其視為未來的新商業模式。

Thank you for that, Oleg. And just following up on another big segment, your -- within the broadband sector, I know that's been pretty depressed. You talked about previously some pushouts in cable. Are you seeing any signs of life in cable? And obviously, we're seeing -- I assume you're seeing some pushouts in fiber and be -- these sort of things that will be driving the fiber access industry. Any comments around broadband?

謝謝你，奧列格。我知道寬頻領域的另一個重要領域非常低迷。您之前談到了有線電視中的一些推出。您在電纜中看到任何生命跡象嗎？顯然，我們看到——我想你看到了光纖方面的一些推出——這些將推動光纖接入行業的發展。關於寬帶有什麼評論嗎？

Sure. The -- on cable, so the cable upgrade is underway. But unlike in the previous things where they would just buy everything in one quarter and just kind of roll it out, they are doing it over multiple quarters, which leads you to a smaller bump-up in demand within the quarter. But on the other hand, it provides for a smoother shipment over the multiple quarters.

當然。- 有線，因此有線升級正在進行中。但與之前的做法不同的是，他們只會在一個季度內購買所有東西，然後將其推出，而他們會在多個季度內這樣做，這會導致該季度內的需求增幅較小。但另一方面，它使多個季度的發貨更加順暢。

And I think part of it is because, since the fiber-to-the-home players have slowed down or stopped their deployment, I think the pressure is a bit less. However, I saw comments, and AT&T does appear to be serious about resuming their aggressive push fiber-to-the-home next calendar year, I expect the competitive pressure on cable to accelerate, and we will probably see more aggressive spend by them as well.

我認為部分原因是，由於光纖到戶玩家已經放慢或停止了部署，我認為壓力減輕了一些。然而，我看到了評論，AT&T 似乎確實認真考慮明年恢復積極推動光纖到戶，我預計有線電視的競爭壓力將會加速，我們可能會看到他們更加積極的支出，因為出色地。

And the other area that cable was concerned about is the fixed wireless. And so far, it has been -- has not been a factor in terms of competitive pressure on them to do anything. And as you pointed out earlier, I mean, as I said as well, 5G deployment, I think will be the last piece that's going to start recovering.

有線電視關注的另一個領域是固定無線。到目前為止，這還不是他們採取任何行動的競爭壓力的因素。正如您之前指出的，我的意思是，正如我所說，5G 部署將是最後一個開始恢復的部分。

And I think the earliest will be the end of our fiscal year or kind of middle of next year because I'm not seeing any kind of meaningful movement there. And in fact, all the major NEMs have really kind of gone into hibernation mode where they are continuing to do kind of advanced research, but not much in terms of the accelerating new products to market.

我認為最早將是我們的財政年度結束或明年中期，因為我沒有看到任何有意義的變化。事實上，所有主要的 NEM 確實進入了休眠模式，他們仍在繼續進行高級研究，但在加速新產品上市方面卻沒有太多進展。

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you. And just one last quick comment on the operations side, like your inventory on your balance sheet was down quite a bit. Any comments around that? Are you able to kind of sell what you forecasted? And what will be driving the step down in inventory in-house?

這很有意義。謝謝。最後對營運方面進行快速評論，例如資產負債表上的庫存大幅下降。對此有何評論？你能賣出你的預測嗎？是什麼推動了內部庫存的下降？

Well, I think the -- as we all know, during the supply chain shortage, you had to agree to a lot of product, like kind of NC -- non-cancellable, non-refundable. And of course, a lot of semi-companies have kind of shoved it all down our throats so we built up some component inventory.

嗯，我認為——眾所周知，在供應鏈短缺期間，你必須同意很多產品，例如 NC——不可取消、不可退款。當然，很多半成品公司都把這一切都塞給了我們，所以我們建立了一些零件庫存。

We have been pretty much working diligently all that inventory down. But also, our anti-counterfeiting manufacturing, we are holding quite a bit of raw materials. And now, as the anti-counterfeiting demand is starting to come back, we've been consuming the raw material as well as the semi-finished goods and we've been bringing inventory more in line with our kind of current run rate demand.

我們一直在努力減少庫存。而且我們的防偽製造，我們掌握著相當多的原料。現在，隨著防偽需求開始回升，我們一直在消耗原材料和半成品，並且我們一直在使庫存更加符合我們當前的運行率需求。

Perfect.

完美的。

We haven't been buying much new stuff. Let's put it that way.

我們沒有買太多新東西。這麼說吧。

It's more to categorize it as a more normalized level now. I mean -- and it will now fluctuate a little bit more to revenue as opposed to kind of the prior cycle.

現在更多的是把它歸類為一個更規範化的層次。我的意思是──與之前的周期相比，現在收入的波動會更大一些。

That's right.

這是正確的。

Yeah, great stuff. Thank you. That's all I've got.

是的，很棒的東西。謝謝。這就是我所擁有的一切。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Mehdi Hosseini, SIG.

邁赫迪·侯賽尼，SIG。

Yes, thanks for taking my question. The first one has to do -- Oleg, can you tell us how the quarter progressed, especially in terms of booking? Was there significant erosion throughout the different business units, service providers, CSPs, and so forth or did you start weak and just carry through? And I have a follow-up.

是的，感謝您提出我的問題。第一個必須要做的——奧列格，你能告訴我們這個季度的進展如何，特別是在預訂方面嗎？不同的業務部門、服務提供者、CSP 等是否受到了嚴重侵蝕，或者您一開始表現不佳，只是堅持了下來？我有一個後續行動。

Well, actually, I say the difference from the prior quarters -- and, I mean, what we are seeing is the forecast there, we kind of assume early in the quarter largely holds. So we've been seeing fewer decommits or cancellations. The only big cancellation we had in -- it was not really cancellation. Our major customer reduced their order by a third, which is on the wireless NEMs. Had that order came through, actually, we would have beaten the high end of our guidance on NSE and it was there really a major wireless NEM decided to take a less product because of slowness in the market.

好吧，實際上，我說的是與前幾季的差異 - 我的意思是，我們看到的是那裡的預測，我們假設本季初基本上成立。因此，我們看到退役或取消的情況越來越少。我們遇到的唯一一次重大取消——並不是真正的取消。我們的主要客戶將無線 NEM 的訂單減少了三分之一。實際上，如果該訂單獲得通過，我們將超越 NSE 指導的高端，而且確實有一個主要的無線 NEM 由於市場緩慢而決定減少產品數量。

We don't generally track -- kind of rely on book-to-ship ratios. Because the way our market works, demand works, the June quarter and December quarter are usually stronger and we get a lot of bookings within the quarter. And the September and March are generally weaker, and we get a lot less bookings within those quarters.

我們通常不會追蹤——有點依賴訂單出貨比。由於我們的市場運作方式和需求運作方式，六月季度和十二月季度通常更為強勁，我們在該季度內收到了大量預訂。九月和三月的銷售量普遍較弱，我們在這些季度收到的預訂量也少得多。

So I look more like -- the way I gauge the relative health of the funnel is that what kind of bookings we enter the quarter, and expectations, and how well do they hold up or there's a left to go. We forecast the bookings and then we track how many of the bookings show up as they're supposed to show up.

所以我看起來更像是——我衡量漏斗相對健康狀況的方式是我們進入本季度的預訂類型、預期，以及它們的保持情況或還有剩餘。我們預測預訂量，然後追蹤有多少預訂量如預期出現。

And the way it makes me feel a little better is they're actually showing up. Whereas before, that will get pushed out or get canceled. So I think, while the revenue may be lower, the booking environment is now more predictable and more robust, so we can plan better our quarter.

讓我感覺好一點的是他們真的出現了。而以前，這將被推遲或取消。因此，我認為，雖然收入可能較低，但預訂環境現在更加可預測且更加穩健，因此我們可以更好地規劃我們的季度。

Great. And then if I just double-click on OSP, should I assume that any sense of what is being reflected in the guidance for the September quarter, would that show any year-over-year growth?

偉大的。然後，如果我雙擊 OSP，我是否應該假設 9 月季度的指導中所反映的內容是否會顯示出同比增長？

Are you talking -- which segment, the 3D sensing or anti-counterfeit?

您說的是哪個細分市場，3D 感測還是防偽？

3D sensing.

3D 感測。

Well, the -- it's actually the lower in revenue year on year because we have now going to the new ASP schedule. So there is a pricing road map, so the ASP is lower. The volumes are slightly the same, maybe a little higher, but the problem is the volume growth is not enough to offset the ASP erosion that just -- wanting the fact for the next year. So -- but -- and of course, it's still very much driven by a single customer, which probably have a very high level of penetration of products. So it's very much driven by their demand and volumes

嗯，實際上，收入比去年同期較低，因為我們現在採用了新的 ASP 時間表。所以有一個定價路線圖，因此 ASP 較低。銷量略有相同，也許更高一點，但問題是銷量成長不足以抵消平均售價的侵蝕，而這只是希望明年的事實。所以——但是——當然，它仍然很大程度上是由單一客戶驅動的，這些客戶可能具有非常高的產品滲透率。所以這在很大程度上是由他們的需求和數量所驅動的

One thing we are also noticing there that is positive, the demand is now being a little bit better linearized throughout the year. And I think it's mainly driven by contract manufacturers who don't want to be heavily overstressed in the September, December quarter and then having a lot less demand in the March and June. But still, I think September, December quarter is a much higher volume.

我們也注意到一件正面的事情，即全年需求的線性化程度有所提高。我認為這主要是由合約製造商推動的，他們不想在 9 月和 12 月季度承受嚴重的壓力，然後在 3 月和 6 月需求大幅減少。但我仍然認為 9 月和 12 月季度的成交量要高得多。

And one other development, I think we are now seeing, kind of, if we call them signs of life or interesting new trends, mainly the China Android players are doing with the 3D sensing. It's still very small volumes, just a handful of platforms. But if this becomes a major trend and adoption, this will be actually a big positive for us in 3D sensing. And there's also rumors that Samsung may be trying to make another go at it. But after having so many years of full start, I will hold off on that one as the outlook.

我認為我們現在看到的另一項發展，如果我們稱之為生命跡像或有趣的新趨勢，主要是中國 Android 玩家正在使用 3D 感測。它的數量仍然非常小，只有少數幾個平台。但如果這成為一種主要趨勢並得到採用，這實際上對我們 3D 感測領域來說是一個巨大的積極因素。還有傳言稱三星可能正在嘗試再次嘗試。但在經歷了這麼多年的全面開始之後，我將推遲這項展望。

Sure, sure.

當然，當然。

(multiple speakers) It's about $2.5 million year over year for the first quarter, so actually could be another -- the pricing, et cetera, that Oleg mentioned. But also, we'll have to monitor the supply chain that Oleg just discussed and maybe it kind of more linearalized. And over the course of two, three quarters, it will kind of offset itself.

（多位發言者）第一季同比約為 250 萬美元，所以實際上可能是另一個——奧列格提到的定價等等。而且，我們還必須監控奧列格剛才討論的供應鏈，也許它更加線性化。在兩個、三個季度的時間裡，它會自行抵銷。

Sure. Just purpose of modeling, the implied midpoint of your guide implies about a 9% sequential growth in OSP. Is that driven by both 3D sensing and counterfeit?

當然。僅出於建模目的，指南中隱含的中點意味著 OSP 環比增長約 9%。這是由 3D 感測和假冒產品共同驅動的嗎？

Well, I think the anti-counterfeiting business is starting to rebound. I mean, a lot of the inventories have been consumed. So we have a -- I mean, there is an uptick in there. But also 3D sensing has a higher numbers, but you have to discount it for some of the ASP erosion. So you probably would have been closer to an $80 million range between the churn. But of course, it's -- both segments are doing better demand-wise, volume-wise than in the prior year.

嗯，我認為防偽業務正在開始反彈。我的意思是，很多庫存已經被消耗掉了。所以我們有——我的意思是，那裡有上升。但 3D 感測也有更高的數字，但你必須考慮到 ASP 的一些侵蝕。因此，兩次流失之間的損失可能接近 8,000 萬美元。但當然，這兩個細分市場的需求和數量都比前一年做得更好。

Okay. Well, thank you.

好的。嗯，謝謝。

And when the anti -- for us, it's very important for anti-counterfeiting to start recovering because that's where a lot of big iron is sitting in terms of the manufacturing assets, so clearly driving a better absorption on a stronger anti-counterfeiting demand has a bigger impact on the operating margin of the OSP business unit.

對我們來說，當防偽開始恢復時，防偽開始恢復非常重要，因為就製造資產而言，這是許多大鐵的所在地，因此顯然會推動更好地吸收更強勁的防偽需求。的營業利益率影響較大。

Got it, thank you.

明白了，謝謝。

Michael Genovese, Rosenblatt.

麥可·吉諾維斯，羅森布拉特。

Great, thanks. I just have one question, which is -- Oleg, you've spoken a lot about how AI and data center investment can improve or help field test over time. I just wanted to kind of more directly connect the dot on how it could help field test? And so is the Lumen announcement about their investment in AI? Is that key to the second half recovery or other things like that. Do we expect other service providers to announce something similar? I guess, there's a few questions in there, but if you could kind of run with those thoughts, I would appreciate it.

太好了，謝謝。我只有一個問題，那就是——Oleg，您已經談論了很多關於人工智慧和資料中心投資如何隨著時間的推移改進或幫助現場測試的問題。我只是想更直接地聯繫它如何幫助現場測試？那麼 Lumen 是否宣布了他們對人工智慧的投資？這是下半年復甦或其他類似事情的關鍵嗎？我們是否期望其他服務提供者宣布類似的事情？我想，裡面有一些問題，但如果你能帶著這些想法去思考，我將不勝感激。

Well, sure. I think all of that is goodness. Actually, those are all positive things. To be fair, I mean, Lumen, to give them credit, even when they were really beaten down in the last 12 months, they've actually been -- when I talk about the Tier 2s being more aggressive, I think Lumen has been one of the more proactive and more innovative companies in that space in terms of how -- what technology they deploy and how they roll out their value proposition.

嗯，當然。我認為這一切都是美好的。其實這些都是正面的事情。公平地說，我的意思是，Lumen，要給予他們信任，即使他們在過去12 個月裡真的被擊敗了，他們實際上- 當我談到2 級球隊更具侵略性時，我認為Lumen 一直在就如何部署什麼技術以及如何推出其價值主張而言，是該領域更積極主動、更具創新性的公司之一。

And I mean, we like Lumen because they actually listen to a lot of good innovative ideas and they're one of the more innovative players in terms of implementing things that truly differentiate them from the -- your run-of-the-mill fiber operator. So I'm not going to say any more on that, but Lumen, they didn't just start it. They've been doing it for the past year, 1.5 years, even when they were beaten down into the pulp. They continued with the innovation.

我的意思是，我們喜歡 Lumen，因為他們實際上聽取了很多好的創新想法，而且在實施方面他們是最具創新性的參與者之一，這些事情真正使他們與普通光纖區分開來。員。所以我不會再多說了，但是 Lumen，他們並不是剛開始的。在過去的一年，1.5年裡，他們一直在這樣做，即使他們被打得一團糟。他們繼續創新。

I guess, just any more -- I mean, I guess you did touch on this a bit earlier, but any more color or comment, a prediction on this AI investment creating more, whether it's optical or fiber, whether it's some sort of optical kind of core or fiber access demand? So that's why I zeroed in on Lumen there, because it seems like their AI investments --

我想，只是更多- 我的意思是，我想你確實早些時候觸及了這一點，但是更多的顏色或評論，對這項人工智能投資創造更多的預測，無論是光纖還是光纖，無論是某種光學什麼樣的核心或光纖存取需求？這就是為什麼我把注意力集中在 Lumen 那裡，因為這似乎是他們的人工智慧投資--

So yes, because -- so when I was talking about it, the -- in particular, if you look at 1.6 terabits, I mean, traditionally, driving from 10 gig to 100 gig, 100 gig to 400 gig, 400 gig, maybe, to 800 gig, traditionally, the drive to adoption of the higher speeds was driven by NEMs supplying into service providers. 800 gig was kind of like mix between service providers and data centers. 1.6 terabits is being driven all by data centers.

所以是的，因為——所以當我談論它時，——特別是，如果你看看1.6 太比特，我的意思是，傳統上，從10 gig 到100 gig，100 gig 到400 gig，400 gig ，也許，到 800 gig，傳統上，採用更高速度的動力是由向服務提供者提供的 NEM 推動的。 800 gig 有點像是服務提供者和資料中心之間的混合。 1.6 太比特全部由資料中心驅動。

And what we are seeing, the rate of fiber bandwidth consumption, whereas, let's say, service provider will lay a fiber and then maybe every couple of years, they would turn on another fiber strength and they generally only connect one and then they roll the trucks to connect the others as they need it. What we are seeing with data centers is A, more strands being enabled from get-go. They just may be sitting dark, but they actually pay for connecting all these strands so then, as they need it, they turn them up quicker. And the reason they are doing it is the time between lighting up fiber and lighting up the next fiber. The time is much, much shorter and as they see their traffic grow much faster than the service providers.

我們所看到的是光纖頻寬消耗率，而服務提供者將鋪設一根光纖，然後也許每隔幾年，他們就會打開另一種光纖強度，他們通常只連接一根光纖，然後滾動卡車根據需要連接其他人。我們在資料中心看到的是A，從一開始就啟用了更多的線索。他們可能只是坐在黑暗中，但他們實際上支付了連接所有這些線的費用，因此，當他們需要時，他們會更快地將它們打開。他們這樣做的原因是點亮光纖和點亮下一根光纖之間的時間。時間要短得多，而且他們看到自己的流量成長速度比服務提供者快得多。

So in that respect, I see them looking at the fiber interconnecting between the data centers are completely different than the service provider who would look for their metro and core network. And I view it as a positive for us because that basically means much more frequent changes and need for a much faster responsiveness.

因此，在這方面，我認為他們關注資料中心之間的光纖互連與服務供應商尋找城域和核心網路完全不同。我認為這對我們來說是積極的，因為這基本上意味著更頻繁的更改和需要更快的反應速度。

Thank you, appreciate the color.

謝謝，欣賞一下顏色。

Meta Marshall, Morgan Stanley.

梅塔‧馬歇爾，摩根士丹利。

Hi, this is Karan Juvekar on for Meta. So first question, just on the NSE side, I know you're sort of expecting a conservative spend environment throughout the calendar year. As you look into the first half of next year, where you expect some uptick, I guess, are you expecting sort of a step function recovery in revenues or a more gradual recovery? And I guess, just parsing out between European and US carriers, just any trends to be mindful in terms of how you're thinking about a recovery? I know North America is the most challenged today. How you expect the recovery there to play out?

大家好，我是 Meta 的 Karan Juvekar。第一個問題，就 NSE 而言，我知道您預計全年支出環境將保持保守。當您展望明年上半年時，您預計收入會有所上升，我想，您預計收入會出現階梯式恢復還是更加漸進式恢復？我想，只要分析一下歐洲和美國的航空公司，就您如何看待復甦而言，有哪些趨勢需要注意？我知道北美今天面臨的挑戰最大。您預計那裡的復甦將如何展開？

What you said -- service, what function? Or do you mean like an NE, NSE or --?

你說的－服務，什麼功能？或者你的意思是像 NE、NSE 或——？

No, no, just the recovery being a step function or sort of more gradual.

不，不，只是恢復是一個階躍函數，或者說是更漸進的。

Oh, step function. Got it, got it. I think it's -- so look at it. There's the basic things like field instruments. I think that's being a -- I would say, not a big step, but like lots of little steps because those are driven by projects. So I think it's a gradual recovery.

哦，階躍函數。明白了，明白了。我認為是——所以看看它。有一些基本的東西，例如現場儀器。我認為這不是一個大步驟，而是很多小步驟，因為這些步驟是由專案驅動的。所以我認為這是一個逐漸恢復的過程。

And I would say, amazingly, Europe has not been that bad. Yes, they slowed down, but nowhere near as bad as North America. North America has been cricket, basically, for the last two years. So I think, in terms of a step function, clearly, if AT&T will continue to proceed with their plans to accelerate and resume their fiber-to-the-home, in a way, it will be a bit of a step function for the fiber instruments.

我想說，令人驚訝的是，歐洲並沒有那麼糟。是的，他們放慢了速度，但遠沒有北美那麼糟。過去兩年，北美基本上一直是板球運動。因此，我認為，就階梯功能而言，顯然，如果 AT&T 繼續推進其加速和恢復光纖到戶的計劃，在某種程度上，這將是一個階梯功能纖維儀器。

And usually, if somebody as big as AT&T restarts deployment, it sends a shock through the industry, which means the cable guys are going to have to accelerate. The wireless may have to do something more. Because then it creates a nice competitive whirlwind that everybody needs to start responding.

通常情況下，如果像 AT&T 這樣的大公司重新啟動部署，就會為整個產業帶來震動，這意味著有線電視公司必須加快部署速度。無線可能還需要做更多的事情。因為這樣就會產生一股很好的競爭旋風，每個人都需要開始做出反應。

So generally, just as when they stop spending, everybody else stops spending. When they start spending, others are going to follow, usually. So -- but I don't want to create expectation of a step function. I'd rather go with a gradual recovery in the base demand.

一般來說，就像當他們停止消費時，其他人也會停止消費一樣。當他們開始消費時，通常其他人也會跟著做。所以——但我不想創造對階躍函數的期望。我寧願基本需求逐步恢復。

Where I see a greater acceleration is really the Fiber 11 production. And we do think 1.6 terabits will be a big driver in the first half of next calendar year, okay? And in terms of the -- clearly, as North America starts to recover, I mean, Europe follows pretty quickly.

我看到更大的加速實際上是 Fiber 11 的生產。我們確實認為 1.6 太比特將成為明年上半年的一大推動力，好嗎？顯然，隨著北美開始復甦，我的意思是，歐洲也很快跟進。

But the good news is, Europe never really -- did not really get down as much as North America. So I expect the recovery in Europe to be a bit more mild.

但好消息是，歐洲從來沒有真正像北美那樣經歷過如此嚴重的經濟衰退。因此，我預計歐洲的復甦會更加溫和。

But what's also really interesting is we're seeing a lot more aggressive plans in Latin America, which is you think always will be the last ones, but they are actually, in many ways, been playing catch up. And we're seeing some of the more interesting opportunities, especially for our AIOps and some of the other products coming out of Central and South America as well. And they have been pretty solid all long.

但真正有趣的是，我們在拉丁美洲看到了許多更激進的計劃，你認為這永遠是最後的計劃，但實際上，它們在許多方面一直在追趕。我們看到了一些更有趣的機會，特別是對於我們的 AIOps 以及來自中美洲和南美洲的其他一些產品。而且他們一直以來都非常穩固。

Okay, okay, that's very helpful. And then, I know you mentioned earlier that sort of on the OSP side, inventories are sort of depleted. But I just wanted to get a little bit more color on trends you're seeing there. What sort of drove the upside? Is it around inventory builds or new prints and just expectations on that moving forward? That would be helpful. Thank you.

好吧好吧，這很有幫助。然後，我知道您之前提到過，在 OSP 方面，庫存已經耗盡。但我只是想對你所看到的趨勢有更多的了解。是什麼推動了上漲？是圍繞著庫存建設還是新印刷以及對未來發展的期望？那會有幫助的。謝謝。

You're talking about our internal inventories, right, not the inventories of the service providers? Which inventories you're talking about?

你說的是我們內部的庫存，對吧，不是服務提供者的庫存？你說的是哪些庫存？

The OSP side inventories, yeah.

OSP 方面的庫存，是的。

OSP, yeah. So as I mentioned earlier, the -- we are seeing some recovery in the anti-counterfeiting demand, and it's really driven -- I mean, a lot of the inventory that was built up in the channel during COVID because they also order a lot of material and products to keep on hand. Finally, a lot of it has been wound down and consumed. So the orders that are coming back is really more in line with the demand and consumption and less of the restocking or anything like that.

OSP，是的。正如我之前提到的，我們看到防偽需求有所復甦，這確實受到了推動，我的意思是，在新冠疫情期間，渠道中建立了很多庫存，因為他們也訂購了很多手頭上需要保留的材料和產品。最後，其中很多都被減少和消耗掉了。因此，回來的訂單實際上更符合需求和消費，而不是補貨或類似的事情。

Okay, that's helpful. Thank you.

好的，這很有幫助。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Tim Savageaux, Northland Capital.

薩瓦喬 (Tim Savageaux)，北國資本。

Hey, good afternoon, couple of questions, first, on the guide. I think, if I heard you right, because you would expect to see kind of a double-digit million sort of sequential increase in OSP, and I guess you're saying you would have seen something closer to that were not for the ASPs in that comment about $80 million or initially looking at you think maybe something -- so there's some negatives in the currency business, but it sounds like maybe not. Did I get that right?

嘿，下午好，有幾個問題，首先是關於指南的問題。我想，如果我沒聽錯的話，因為您會期望看到 OSP 出現兩位數的連續增長，而且我想您是說，如果沒有 ASP，您會看到更接近的情況。評論，或最初看到你可能會想到什麼——所以貨幣業務有一些負面影響，但聽起來可能沒有。我做對了嗎？

No, there's no negatives in the currency business. I think the people are just talking about 3D sensing demand. I mean, we have a new pricing in place and, clearly, with the ASP erosion, had taken down some of the revenue because the volumes are not that much more than they were a year ago. So that was what I was talking about.

不，貨幣業務沒有負面影響。我認為人們只是在談論 3D 感測需求。我的意思是，我們制定了新的定價，顯然，隨著平均售價的下降，我們減少了一些收入，因為銷售量並不比一年前多多少。這就是我所說的。

(multiple speakers) I get the relative to last year. I was just talking sequential, but I think we're talking about the same thing. And a similar question on NSE coming down sequentially, it looks like there could be some seasonality that you see typically there. But is there any particular product or end markets driving that sequential decline in NSE for Q1 '25?

（多位發言者）我得到了與去年相關的資訊。我只是在談論順序，但我認為我們在談論同一件事。關於 NSE 的類似問題也依次出現，看起來可能存在一些你通常會看到的季節性。但是否有任何特定產品或終端市場導致 NSE 在 25 年第一季連續下降？

I think it's really more seasonality. I mean, just weaker demand, but, I mean, clearly, we normally would have gotten some orders more -- I think I'd say wireless NEMs is probably one area where the demand is lower. And I would say just general, the service provider field instrumentation, just, demand is weaker.

我認為這確實更具季節性。我的意思是，只是需求疲軟，但是，我的意思是，顯然，我們通常會獲得更多訂單——我想我會說無線 NEM 可能是需求較低的領域之一。我想說的是，一般而言，現場儀表服務提供者的需求較弱。

Okay, thanks. And then back on kind of AI data center side, I don't know if you break it out or look at it this way, but I think it'd be interesting to get a sense for within the -- any segments. What sort of revenue level can you attach to data center overall or fiber-driven data center, whether that's 800 gig test going to 1.6 in lab and production?

好的，謝謝。然後回到人工智慧資料中心方面，我不知道你是否將其分解或以這種方式看待它，但我認為了解任何細分市場都會很有趣。您可以將資料中心整體或光纖驅動的資料中心附加到什麼樣的收入水平，無論是實驗室和生產中的 800 演出測試到 1.6？

We'd assume a good bit of that is probably data-center driven. And you've mentioned the potential for more field instrumentation driven by that. But if you had to take a swing at it, would you say data centers has the prospects of getting up towards 10% of your NE business over time, or is it there now, or some sort of order of magnitude?

我們假設其中很大一部分可能是由資料中心驅動的。您提到了由此驅動的更多現場儀器的潛力。但如果你必須採取行動，你會說隨著時間的推移，資料中心有可能達到你的 NE 業務的 10%，還是現在就已經存在，或者某種數量級？

I'm not going to get into this thing because, I mean, any number I give you will ultimately be as number anyhow. So I mean, there's -- I don't think there's really any good research or understanding because one thing I can tell you is the 1.6 terabits is next year will be driven all by data center, right? Whereas, when we went from 400 to 800, it was primarily driven by carriers and NEM supplying carrier.

我不打算討論這個問題，因為我的意思是，我給你的任何數字最終都會是數字。所以我的意思是，我認為沒有任何好的研究或理解，​​因為我可以告訴你的一件事是明年 1.6 太比特將全部由資料中心驅動，對吧？然而，當我們從 400 增加到 800 時，它主要是由營運商和 NEM 供應業者推動的。

So I think -- I don't really try to supply this data center or carrier node. I mean, fundamentally, it's all driven by technology. But I would just say that 1.6 terabits will be driven by data center demand. I mean, if you want to ascribe that revenue to that, I mean, maybe eventually, we -- as things stabilize, we can start doing segmentation on the end market use.

所以我認為——我並沒有真正嘗試提供這個資料中心或營運商節點。我的意思是，從根本上來說，這一切都是由技術驅動的。但我只想說 1.6 太比特將由資料中心需求驅動。我的意思是，如果你想將收入歸因於此，我的意思是，也許最終，隨著情況穩定下來，我們可以開始對終端市場使用進行細分。

But usually, the same line -- just like for 800 gig, the line that was built originally for service providers ended up supplying data centers. When the service providers start spending, you can't really -- because it's a multi-use technology. So we think of it more as to who will be the lead customer driving it. And for the first time, I think data centers will drive the next technology node.

但通常情況下，同一條線路——就像 800 gig 一樣，最初為服務提供者建造的線路最終為資料中心提供服務。當服務提供者開始花錢時，你實際上不能——因為它是一種多用途技術。因此，我們更多地考慮誰將成為推動它的主要客戶。我第一次認為資料中心將推動下一個技術節點。

And in terms of the build-out of the networks, it is still the service providers fiber, but it's a Tier 2 service providers who are providing those fiber interconnect between all the data centers rather than the big players like, say, AT&T or Verizon. So I mean, whether it's data center today or they take some of that fiber and give it to in the future for 5G towers, I mean, it's a multi-use, so we don't really sweat trying to figure out what's the end market demand.

就網路建置而言，仍然是光纖服務供應商，但在所有資料中心之間提供光纖互連的是二級服務供應商，而不是像 AT&T 或 Verizon 這樣的大公司。所以我的意思是，無論是今天的資料中心，還是他們將一些光纖用於未來的 5G 塔，我的意思是，它是多用途的，所以我們不會真正費力地試圖弄清楚結局是什麼市場需求。

Okay, I understand. Let me take one last desperate attempt at that question and say, if you were to replace 800 gig with -- replace data center in my question or AI data center with 800 gig, might be a little bit easier to give us a sense of the size of your 800 gig business relative to your overall test business in network, in any --

好吧，我明白了。讓我對這個問題進行最後一次絕望的嘗試，如果你用——替換我問題中的數據中心或用 800 GB 替換 AI 數據中心，可能會更容易讓我們了解您的800 場演出業務的規模相對於網路中的整體測試業務而言，在任何情況下--

I have the numbers, but now you're asking me to go into this segment reporting that we don't report. Because, I mean, there is a -- at any given time, we have a 400 gig, 800 gig, and now, later this calendar year, we're going to have 1.6 terabits. I mean, those things are just like sediment chart. They're -- one goes down, the other one goes back up, and there is a substitution. So I don't think I'm going to go into that level of detail.

我有這些數字，但現在你要求我進入這個我們不報告的部分報告。因為，我的意思是，在任何給定時間，我們都有 400 兆、800 兆，而現在，今年晚些時候，我們將擁有 1.6 太比特。我的意思是，這些東西就像沉積物圖表一樣。他們──一個下場，另一個上場，然後換人。所以我認為我不會深入討論這個細節。

Fair enough, thanks.

很公平，謝謝。

Mehdi Hosseini, SIG.

邁赫迪·侯賽尼，SIG。

Thank you. A couple of housekeeping items, given the fact that the $25 million of annualized cost saving's going to materialize second half of fiscal year '25, should I keep the OpEx kind of flattish from here? And the implied OpEx for the September is $120 million, so I'm just wondering how should I model that for the rest of the fiscal year.

謝謝。考慮到 2500 萬美元的年化成本節省將在 25 財年下半年實現，我應該從現在開始保持營運支出持平嗎？9 月的隱含營運支出為 1.2 億美元，所以我只是想知道如何為本財年剩餘時間建模。

Generally, yes. There are several puts and takes. Obviously, some of it has to do with merit increase in variable employee costs. But generally, yes, you're right.

一般來說，是的。有幾個放和取。顯然，其中一些與可變員工成本的績效增加有關。但總的來說，是的，你是對的。

Okay, and what about the fiscal year tax rate?

好的，那麼財政年度稅率呢？

So we guided for about $8 million then, for the remainder of the year, it will depend on the jurisdictional kind of mix. So obviously, as long as the North American kind of region will recover, then obviously, it lowers our effective tax rate. You can see that in the first quarter, it's still $8 million, which is a higher-than-normal effective tax rate, but that's kind of the thinking.

因此，我們預計今年剩餘時間的預算約為 800 萬美元，這將取決於司法管轄區的組合。顯然，只要北美地區能夠復甦，那麼顯然，它就會降低我們的有效稅率。你可以看到第一季仍然是800萬美元，這是一個高於正常水平的有效稅率，但就是這樣的想法。

Yeah, I think you should look at the absolute dollar amount of taxes because they're really driven by statutory kind of things. And ironically, the more money we make, the lower percentage in taxes we pay. Because in North America, we have NOLs and a lot of other offsets that will effectively lower our tax rate.

是的，我認為你應該看看稅收的絕對金額，因為它們實際上是由法定事物驅動的。諷刺的是，我們賺的錢越多，我們繳的稅比例就越低。因為在北美，我們有 NOL 和許多其他抵銷措施，可以有效降低我們的稅率。

Okay, got it. Thank you, guys.

好的，明白了。謝謝你們，夥計們。

Thank you.

謝謝。

That concludes our Q&A portion of the call. I turn it back to Vibhuti for final comments.

我們的電話問答部分到此結束。我將其轉回 Vibhuti 以徵求最終意見。

Thank you, Emma. This concludes our earnings call for today. Thank you for joining, everyone. Have a good afternoon.

謝謝你，艾瑪。我們今天的財報電話會議到此結束。謝謝大家的加入。祝你下午好。