TotalEnergies SE (TTE) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to TotalEnergies' second-quarter and first-half 2025 results conference call.

女士們，先生們，歡迎參加 TotalEnergies 2025 年第二季和上半年業績電話會議。

I now hand over to Patrick Pouyanné, Chairman and CEO; and Jean-Pierre Sbraire as CFO, who will lead you through this call. Sir, please go ahead.

現在，我把電話交給董事長兼執行長 Patrick Pouyanné 和財務長 Jean-Pierre Sbraire，他們將帶領大家完成本次電話會議。先生，請繼續。

Good afternoon or good morning, everyone.

大家下午好或早上好。

Before Jean-Pierre goes through the details of the second-quarter financials, I would like to make some few opening comments. We are facing an unstable geopolitical and macroeconomic environment, which has been dominated by -- during the quarter by the Israel-Iran 12 days war and also the tariff war between the US and some commercial partners.

在 Jean-Pierre 介紹第二季財務狀況的細節之前，我想說幾句開場白。我們正面臨不穩定的地緣政治和宏觀經濟環境，本季主要受到以色列和伊朗 12 天戰爭以及美國和一些商業夥伴之間的關稅戰的影響。

In this context, all markets have been volatile during the second quarter with price broadly fluctuating between $60, $70 per barrel, an average of $68 per barrel, with a short and ultimately modest increase during the Iran crisis, with crude prices reaching $81 per barrel at the highest points. We could consider in our view that this is quite a limited price response to this major crisis. And somewhere, it is a signal that the whole market is well supplied, in particular fueled by OPEC+ decision to unwind some voluntary production cuts, and also facing a weaker demand linked to the global slowdown of economic growth.

在此背景下，第二季所有市場均呈現震盪趨勢，油價在每桶60至70美元之間波動，平均油價為每桶68美元，僅在伊朗危機期間出現短暫且溫和的上漲，最高曾達到每桶81美元。我們認為，對於這場重大危機而言，價格反應相當有限。在某種程度上，這是一個訊號，顯示整個市場供應充足，尤其是在 OPEC+ 決定取消部分自願減產的推動下，同時也面臨與全球經濟成長放緩相關的需求疲軟。

In such a context, and Jean-Pierre will detail back in a few moments, this quarter, TotalEnergies once again demonstrating the company's robustness, thanks to its balance and consistent strategy, but also thanks, and it's more important, to its differentiated and unique energy pollution growth profile both in oil and gas, and in electricity. And that drives cash flow growth as well as attractive -- and is a basis for attractive shoulder returns for cycles.

在這樣的背景下，Jean-Pierre 稍後會詳細介紹，本季度，道達爾能源公司再次證明了公司的穩健性，這要歸功於其平衡和一致的戰略，更重要的是，還要歸功於其在石油和天然氣以及電力領域的差異化和獨特的能源污染增長狀況。這不僅推動了現金流的成長，而且具有吸引力——並且是周期性有吸引力的肩部回報的基礎。

So starting first with our first pillar, oil and gas, the first half of 2025 production was up more than 3% year on year, demonstrating that we are well on track to achieve our 2025 upstream production growth guidance of more than 3% versus 24%. And as you know, it will be even longer up to the end of the decade. It's 3% growth. And it has been supported, and it's also very important, by startup of high-return projects such as the Ballymore field in the US or Mero-4 in Brazil, which, by the way, was one quarter ahead of schedule. And now, BEGONIA and CLOV 3 in Angola just came on stream to further feed the Q3 and H2 growth.

因此，從我們的第一大支柱石油和天然氣開始，2025 年上半年的產量同比增長超過 3％，表明我們預計將實現 2025 年上游產量增長預期，即超過 3％ 而非 24％。而且正如你們所知，到本世紀末，這個時間還會更長。成長率為3%。它得到了高回報項目的支持，這也非常重要，例如美國的 Ballymore 油田和巴西的 Mero-4，順便說一句，這些項目的啟動比計劃提前了一個季度。目前，安哥拉的BEGONIA和CLOV 3計畫剛剛投產，將進一步促進第三季和下半年的成長。

As I said, importantly, this production is coming from this new project is accretive, increasing the upstream cash flow CFFO per barrel by around $1 per barrel as an average during the quarter, which is, in fact, quite impressive given our large production base. We are also continuing to manage this portfolio, focusing on our projects on which we meet our low-cost, low-emission criteria; and divesting some non-core, higher-cost projects. And during Q2, we -- consistently, with this strategy, we divested non-proliferative interest in non-core, higher-cost projects in Nigeria, Bonga, and Brazil, Gato do Mato.

正如我所說，重要的是，這個新項目帶來的產量是增值的，本季每桶上游現金流 CFFO 平均增加約 1 美元，考慮到我們龐大的生產基礎，這實際上是相當令人印象深刻的。我們也將繼續管理該投資組合，專注於符合低成本、低排放標準的項目；並剝離一些非核心、高成本的項目。在第二季度，我們始終堅持這項策略，剝離了尼日利亞邦加和巴西加托杜馬託的非核心、高成本項目的非擴散權益。

During the second quarter, we have also reloaded the exploration portfolio, by acquiring exploration permits in the US, in the Gulf -- in the US Gulf, in Malaysia, in Indonesia, and Algeria. On the energy front, the big news of the second quarter that we continue to strengthen the portfolio by signing a $1.5 million energy off-take agreement from Rio Grande Energy Train 4, we will become the shareholder of this train as well. And we have also taken, I would say, an option potentially on the future projects located on the Pacific coast of Canada, which give access to Asian markets and will benefit, by the way, from very cheap gas in Canada, in Alberta, Canada.

在第二季度，我們也透過取得美國、墨西哥灣、馬來西亞、印尼和阿爾及利亞的勘探許可證，重新載入了勘探組合。在能源方面，第二季的重大新聞是我們透過與 Rio Grande Energy Train 4 簽署一份價值 150 萬美元的能源承購協議繼續加強投資組合，我們也將成為這趟列車的股東。我想說，我們還選擇了位於加拿大太平洋沿岸的未來項目，這些項目可以進入亞洲市場，而且還可以受益於加拿大阿爾伯塔省非常廉價的天然氣。

On the second pillar, as you can observe, the integrated power continues to deliver solid results and solid cash flows to close to $600 million and is in zone track to achieve also its annual guidance. In line with our strategy, we also continue to unlock value in our power business by progressing farm downs. We have sold, during a quarter, 50% of our 600-megawatt portfolio of renewable assets in Portugal, and there is more to come in the second half.

在第二個支柱上，正如您所看到的，綜合實力繼續提供穩健的業績和穩健的現金流，接近 6 億美元，並且正處於實現其年度指導的區域軌道上。按照我們的策略，我們也將繼續透過推進農場倒閉來釋放電力業務的價值。我們在一個季度內出售了葡萄牙 600 兆瓦可再生資產組合的 50%，下半年還會出售更多。

The Q-downstream results benefited from a positive seasonal effect of marketing and services activities, which have done very well, which, in fact, are stronger -- with stronger results year on year. Despite near-term improvements in refining margins, to be honest, it's a small improvement in the second quarter. Refining chemicals are still facing some headwinds, either on the operational side. Two refineries were not at the optimum, I would say, efficiency, Donges and Port Arthur. And also on the market side, it's more for the polymer business, which is facing overcapacities in the market.

Q 下游業績受惠於行銷和服務活動的正面季節性效應，這些活動表現非常出色，事實上，業績比去年同期更強勁。儘管煉油利潤率近期有所提高，但說實話，第二季的改善幅度很小。無論是在營運方面，煉油化學品仍面臨一些阻力。我想說，Donges 和 Port Arthur 這兩家煉油廠的效率並不理想。從市場方面來看，聚合物業務面臨的市場產能過剩問題更為嚴重。

Moving to CapEx, during the first half of 2025, net investments totaled $11.6 billion, including $2.2 billion of net acquisitions, in particular, the acquisition of VSB. I confirm today that for full year, we anticipate the net investments will be within the $17 billion, $17.5 billion guidance range, given the disposal program planned for the second half of the year, which is already well engaged.

轉向資本支出，2025 年上半年，淨投資總額為 116 億美元，其中包括 22 億美元的淨收購，特別是收購 VSB。我今天確認，考慮到下半年計畫的處置計畫已經順利實施，我們預計全年淨投資將在 170 億美元至 175 億美元的指導範圍內。

In upstream, beyond our stake in Bonga, Nigeria, as announced, we have, in fact, this last week, approved some binding offers for our unconventional oil license in Argentina, and for two other E&P assets, which will represent globally $1 billion of cash flow. We are also working, and the E&P team is working hard, to close our divestments of onshore Nigeria before year-end. This represents next to $1 billion.

在上游，除了我們宣布的尼日利亞邦加的股份外，事實上，我們上週還批准了一些具有約束力的要約，涉及我們在阿根廷非常規石油許可證以及另外兩個勘探與生產資產，這將在全球範圍內帶來 10 億美元的現金流。我們和勘探與生產團隊也努力爭取在年底前完成尼日利亞陸上油氣的撤資。這相當於近10億美元。

In integrated power, we are very well advanced for the farm downs of the 1.5 gigawatt portfolio in the US, a 250 megawatt portfolio in France, and 400 megawatt in Greece, which free farm downs will represent net divestments of CapEx of around $1.5 billion. The gearing stood by the end of June at 18%, increasing quarter to quarter, primarily due to net investments being weighted towards the first half of the year, in particular because of the disposal proceeds, but it was anticipated, and working capital more built on the first half and working capital built on the first half. Estimating the seasonal effects of working capital and the investment base, normalized gearing is 15%.

在綜合電力方面，我們在美國 1.5 千兆瓦、法國 250 兆瓦和希臘 400 兆瓦的發電廠退役方面取得了很大進展，這些免費發電廠退役將代表約 15 億美元的資本支出淨撤資。截至 6 月底，負債率為 18%，環比有所增加，主要原因是淨投資向上半年傾斜，特別是由於處置收益，但這是可以預料的，而且營運資本更多地建立在上半年的基礎上，營運資本也建立在上半年的基礎上。估計營運資本和投資基數的季節性影響，標準化負債比率為15%。

I will conclude my remarks with the shareholder distributions. The message of the Board is clear. We maintain shareholder distribution at a high level, I would say, as a payout could stand around 55% in 2025, which is, as you remember, quite above the guidance of more than 40% through cycles.

我將以股東分配來結束我的演講。董事會傳達的訊息很明確。我想說的是，我們將股東分配維持在高水平，因為到 2025 年，股息支付率可能達到 55% 左右，正如你記得的，這遠高於整個週期 40% 以上的指導水平。

First on dividends, the ordinary dividend is our number-one capital allocation priority. We continue our track record of attractive growth. The Board of Directors approved a second interim dividend of 2025 of EUR0.80 per share, which is an increase of 7.6% compared to 24%. and it's up 25% versus pre-COVID.

首先是股息，普通股利是我們首要的資本配置重點。我們繼續保持著令人矚目的成長紀錄。董事會批准 2025 年第二次中期股息為每股 0.80 歐元，較 24% 增長 7.6%，較新冠疫情之前增長 25%。

I would like to underline that in US dollar terms, considering the evolution of the US euro exchange rate, this increase of more than 10%, and it was 8% in '23, 8% in '24. So US shareholders have the benefit of that. I would like also to underline that this dividend yield or dividend yield is the best among the majors. Then, comforted by the ability of the company to reach its 2025 underlying growth objective, in particular on energy productions on both sides, the upstream, which continues to deliver good results quarter after quarter, and also integrated power, while maintaining a strong balance sheet, the normalized gearing at 15%.

我想強調的是，以美元計算，考慮到美元兌歐元匯率的演變，這一增幅超過 10%，2023 年為 8%，2024 年為 8%。因此美國股東從中受益。我還想強調的是，這個股息殖利率或股息殖利率是主要股票中最好的。然後，公司有能力實現其 2025 年的基本成長目標，特別是在兩側的能源生產方面，上游繼續逐季取得良好業績，並且還整合了電力，同時保持了強勁的資產負債表，正常化負債率達到 15%。

The Board has decided to continue share buybacks for up to $2 billion in the third quarter. The Board will continue to monitor the buyback on a quarterly basis, looking to the evolution of the macro environment, but also on possible anticipations on the all-gas refining petrochemical markets. We intend to give you more colors on the buyback scheme at our investor day end of September.

董事會決定在第三季繼續回購高達 20 億美元的股票。董事會將持續按季度監控回購情況，並關注宏觀環境的變化，同時也關注全天然氣煉製石化市場的可能預期。我們打算在九月底的投資者日向您詳細介紹回購計畫。

And now I will turn the call over to Jean-Pierre, who will go through the details of second quarter financials.

現在我將把電話轉給 Jean-Pierre，他將詳細介紹第二季的財務狀況。

Thank you, Patrick.

謝謝你，派崔克。

So I will start by commenting on the price environment in the second quarter, which was overall weaker quarter over quarter. Brent averaged $68 per barrel versus $76 per barrel in the first quarter, so down 10%. TTF, the European Gas Marker, averaged $11.9 per million per mTU versus $14.4 per million per mTU in the Q1, down 18%. And the average LNG price also decreased to $9.10 per million BTU versus $10 per million BTU in the first quarter, down again by 10%. For refining, the ERM, so European Refining Margin, slightly improved to $13.50 per ton during the second quarter, but, as mentioned by Patrick, still remained at low level.

因此，我首先要評論一下第二季的價格環境，整體而言，第二季的價格環境比上一季減弱。布蘭特原油平均價格為每桶 68 美元，而第一季為每桶 76 美元，下跌了 10%。歐洲天然氣市場TTF平均價格為每百萬mTU 11.9美元，而第一季為每百萬mTU 14.4美元，下降了18%。而液化天然氣平均價格也從第一季的每百萬英熱單位 10 美元下降至每百萬英熱單位 9.10 美元，再次下降了 10%。對於煉油而言，ERM，即歐洲煉油利潤率，在第二季度略有提高至每噸 13.50 美元，但正如帕特里克所提到的，仍然處於較低水平。

In this context, the company reported robust financial results, demonstrating the strength of our business model and of our operations, with adjusted net income of $3.6 billion and cash flow from operations of $6.6 billion for the second quarter, which were supported by attractive production growth. Profitability remains strong, with return on equity for the 12 months ending June at 14.1%.

在此背景下，公司報告了強勁的財務業績，證明了我們商業模式和營運的實力，第二季調整後的淨收入為 36 億美元，經營現金流為 66 億美元，這得益於可觀的產量成長。獲利能力依然強勁，截至 6 月的 12 個月的股本回報率為 14.1%。

Now, moving to the business segments, starting with hydrocarbons. As anticipated, second quarter production was slightly lower than the first quarter due to planned maintenance. However, on a year-over-year basis, the second quarter marked yet another increase in upstream production, which amounted to a strong 2.5% thanks to new projects, startups, and ramp-ups.

現在，我們轉向業務領域，首先從碳氫化合物開始。正如預期的那樣，由於計劃維護，第二季的產量略低於第一季。然而，與去年同期相比，第二季上游產量再次增加，由於新項目、開工和產能提升，產量強勁成長 2.5%。

On the cost side, the company continues to be a leading low-cost operator, which upstream operating costs at $4.9 per barrel for the first half of the year. Looking forward, we expect hydrocarbon production in the third quarter to increase by more than 3% compared to the third quarter, '24.

在成本方面，該公司繼續成為領先的低成本營運商，今年上半年上游營運成本為每桶 4.9 美元。展望未來，我們預計第三季的碳氫化合物產量將比24年第三季成長3％以上。

Turning now to exploration and production, so this segment generated second quarter, 25 adjusted net operating income of $2 billion and a cash flow of $3.8 billion. Importantly, our project Q is delivering new, low-cost, low-emission oil and gas that is accretive with an average upstream CFFO per barrel equivalent that is roughly two times the base portfolio. In fact, during the second quarter, production from the new project improved the upstream CFFO per barrel equivalent by around $1 per barrel equivalent, generating something like $180 million more than if they had come from the base portfolio.

現在轉向勘探和生產，該部門第二季產生了 25 億美元的調整後淨營業收入和 38 億美元的現金流。重要的是，我們的 Q 項目正在提供新的、低成本、低排放的石油和天然氣，其平均上游 CFFO 每桶當量約為基礎投資組合的兩倍。事實上，在第二季度，新項目的產量使上游CFFO每桶當量提高了約1美元，比來自基礎投資組合的產量多出了約1.8億美元的收益。

On a cumulative basis of the first half of 2025, the extra CFFO generated by new projects totaled close to $300 million, an integrated LNG business. Our sales were stable at 10.6 million tons for the second quarter, and the company achieved $1 billion of adjusted net operating income and cash flow of $1.2 billion for the second quarter, reflecting the 10% increase in the average LNG selling price. related to declining crude price, as well as low market volatility for gas trading activities. Forward, European gas prices continue to be sustained at around $12 per million for the first quarter and for '25, '26 winter periods due to storage replenishment in Europe.

2025年上半年累計，新專案產生的額外CFFO總計近3億美元，是綜合液化天然氣業務。我們的第二季銷售量穩定在 1,060 萬噸，公司第二季實現調整後淨營業收入 10 億美元，現金流 12 億美元，反映液化天然氣平均售價上漲 10%。這與原油價格下跌以及天然氣交易活動的市場波動性較低有關。展望未來，由於歐洲的庫存補充，第一季以及25、26年冬季，歐洲天然氣價格將繼續維持在每百萬美元約12美元。

Given the evolution of oil and gas prices in the recent months and the lag effect on pricing formulas, the company anticipates an average energy selling price of $9 to $9.5 per million BTU in the third quarter. On integrated power, the net power generation increased 28% year-on-year to 11.6 TWh due to growth in renewable sources and the impact of the 1.3 GW CCGT acquisition in the UK closed in 2014. Integrated power adjusted net operating income was close to $580 million, up 14% year-on-year, and cash flow was $562 million. First half '25 cash flow total $1.2 billion, and we're on track to achieve the annual cash flow guidance.

考慮到最近幾個月石油和天然氣價格的變化以及定價公式的滯後效應，該公司預計第三季平均能源售價為每百萬英熱單位 9 至 9.5 美元。在綜合電力方面，由於再生能源的成長以及 2014 年英國 1.3 GW CCGT 收購的影響，淨發電量年增 28% 至 11.6 TWh。綜合電力調整後營業淨收入接近5.8億美元，較去年同期成長14%，現金流為5.62億美元。25 年上半年現金流總計 12 億美元，我們可望實現年度現金流預期。

Lastly, we're progressing on the company's countdown strategy, which optimized, as you know, capital allocation. During the second quarter, the company sold 50% of a 600 million-watt portfolio of renewable assets in Portugal. And as Patrick mentioned, there is more to come, with the 50% farm-down of a 1.5-gigawatt portfolio in the US, 400 megawatts in Greece, and 250 megawatts in France.

最後，我們正在推進公司的倒數策略，如您所知，該策略優化了資本配置。第二季度，該公司出售了葡萄牙 6 億瓦再生資產組合的 50%。正如派崔克所提到的，未來還會有更多，美國 1.5 千兆瓦、希臘 400 兆瓦和法國 250 兆瓦的發電量將減少 50%。

Moving now to downstream, although we find the market improved during the second quarter, $35 per ton, overall will remain in a global weak price environment. In this context, downstream reported second quarter adjusted net operating income of $0.8 billion and cash flow of $1.5 billion. Results benefited from positive seasonality in marketing and services business with results higher year on year.

現在轉向下游，儘管我們發現第二季市場有所改善，價格為每噸 35 美元，但總體而言仍將處於全球疲軟的價格環境中。在此背景下，下游報告第二季調整後淨營業收入為 8 億美元，現金流為 15 億美元。業績受惠於行銷和服務業務的積極季節性，業績年增。

In refining, the utilization rate increased in the second quarter due to improved efficiency and low maintenance. But the result suffers from some operational difficulties at Port Arthur and those refineries, as well as weak petrochemical margins as the polymers business is facing a global glut of new capacity in China and in the US

在煉油方面，由於效率提高和維護成本低，第二季度利用率有所提高。但業績受到亞瑟港和這些煉油廠的一些營運困難以及石化利潤率低的影響，因為聚合物業務面臨中國和美國新增產能過剩的全球局面。

Looking ahead, we anticipate refining utilization in the range 80% to 85% in the third quarter, 2025, which reflects scheduled maintenance at Antwerp, Port Arthur, and HTC in Korea. In terms of downstream environments, in petrochemicals, we see continued pressure on pricing from the record incremental production capacity that was placed in operation in '22 and '23. And in SAF business, imports to Europe have significantly increased, pushing prices down and likely impacting value margin for the rest of the year.

展望未來，我們預計 2025 年第三季煉油利用率將在 80% 至 85% 之間，這反映了安特衛普、亞瑟港和韓國 HTC 的定期維護。就下游環境而言，在石化產業，我們看到 2022 年和 2023 年投入營運的創紀錄增量產能將持續對定價造成壓力。在 SAF 業務中，歐洲的進口量大幅增加，導致價格下降，並可能影響今年剩餘時間的價值利潤。

Moving now to the company on working cap, the company reported a $0.5 billion increase in working cap requirements, mainly due to the unfavorable effects of declining prices on tax liabilities and payments during the quarter of the capital gain tax from divesting the German distribution networks to alimentation costs. This was partially offset by the seasonal release on gas and electricity supply activities in Europe after a strong build in the first quarter. Note that the increase in the first half '25 working cap requirements of $4.9 billion is essentially at the same level that was reported one year ago in the first half '24.

現在談談公司營運上限，該公司報告營運上限需求增加了 5 億美元，主要原因是價格下降對稅負和本季資本利得稅支付產生了不利影響，這些稅負和資本利得稅來自剝離德國分銷網絡和食品成本。在第一季強勁成長之後，歐洲天然氣和電力供應活動的季節性釋放部分抵消了這一成長。請注意，25 年上半年工作上限需求增加了 49 億美元，與去年同期 24 年上半年報告的水平基本相同。

Looking ahead, the company expects that most of the seasonal working cap built that was observed in the first quarter '25 should be released in the second half of the year. On net investment sides, So net investment totaled $6.6 billion in the second quarter, which notably included the closing of the GSD acquisition for 1.6 billion euros and $11.6 billion for the first half of the year. We anticipate full-year net investments to be within the guidance range based on planned disposal during the second quarter half of the year at Patrick's pension. That means that the gearing by end of June is impacted by something like $2.6, $2.8 billion of CapEex.

展望未來，該公司預計，2025 年第一季建構的大部分季節性工作上限應會在下半年釋放。在淨投資方面，第二季的淨投資總額為 66 億美元，其中包括以 16 億歐元完成的 GSD 收購以及上半年的 116 億美元。根據帕特里克退休金公司第二季的計劃處置情況，我們預計全年淨投資將在指導範圍內。這意味著，截至 6 月底的負債比率將受到約 26 億美元至 28 億美元的資本支出影響。

With that, Patrick and I are now available to answer your question. And now we can open the line.

這樣，派崔克和我就可以回答您的問題了。現在我們可以開通線路了。

Michele Della Vigna, Goldman Sachs.

米歇爾·德拉·維尼亞，高盛。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Two quick questions on the LNG market, actually. You continue to grow it very strongly with both long-term contracts and new projects. I'm just wondering, at what point do you think that it will become really difficult to sign new contracts? long-term supply contracts with customers. It feels like we're starting to build a bit of an oversupply for the coming years and that the oil linkage is probably approaching that 12%, which starts to become less attractive. Just wanted your view there also because it would be interesting to see at what point we start to see a slowdown in new FIDs.

實際上，關於液化天然氣市場有兩個簡短的問題。透過長期合約和新項目，你們繼續強勁成長。我只是想知道，您認為什麼時候簽訂新合約會變得非常困難？與客戶簽訂長期供貨合約。感覺我們在未來幾年將開始出現一點供應過剩的情況，而且石油連動性可能接近 12%，這開始變得不那麼有吸引力了。只是想聽聽您的看法，因為看看什麼時候開始看到新的 FID 放緩會很有趣。

And then related to that, in the US, how do tariffs impact the cost of building new LNG plants? There are various elements. I think the steel tariffs probably are the most relevant ones. And does that make you be more cautious to do an FID on a new LNG project in the US or that's actually manageable in the context of your portfolio? Thank you.

與此相關的是，在美國，關稅如何影響建造新的液化天然氣工廠的成本？有各種各樣的元素。我認為鋼鐵關稅可能是最相關的。這是否會讓您在美國對新的液化天然氣項目進行最終投資決定時更加謹慎，或者這在您的投資組合中實際上是可控的？謝謝。

Thank you, Michele.

謝謝你，米歇爾。

You are right. There is clearly a big -- An increase of LNG supply, which will come on stream, as we said, '27, '28, '29. For me, '26 still will be quiet because these projects are always a little difficult to ramp up, I would say. Projecting Qatar is more or less on time. The first train we expect from NFE is mid-'26. Then every six months, a new train. So '26, for me, will not be so much impacted by this new capacity. From '27, you will see clearly an impact. That's why we, since last year, we decided to move to a clear strategy, which is to sign some medium-long-term contract linked to Brent, because I'm more optimistic on the Brent contract oil price than on the, I would say, GKM spot gas price. And we continue to have some success on that.

你是對的。顯然，液化天然氣供應將大幅增加，正如我們所說的，27、28、29 年將會投入使用。對我來說，26 年仍然會很平靜，因為我想說這些項目總是有點難以啟動。預測卡達或多或少是按時進行的。我們預計第一班從 NFE 出發的火車將於 26 年中期出發。然後每六個月就會有一列新火車。因此，對我來說，26 年不會受到這項新產能太大的影響。從 27 年開始，你就會清楚地看到影響。這就是為什麼我們從去年以來決定採取明確的策略，即簽署一些與布蘭特原油掛鉤的中長期合約，因為我對布蘭特原油合約油價比對GKM現貨天然氣價格更為樂觀。我們在這方面繼續取得一些成功。

We have announced this year quite a number of million tons. Last year, and we'll continue. The question is, why do customers behave like that? I think the customers, they have been, I think, honestly, caught in 22 by some big hike. We are in a world which is honestly quite volatile. Geopolitics play a game in the market more than ever. It's not just supply and demand.

今年我們已經公佈了相當多的百萬噸。去年，我們將繼續。問題是，為什麼顧客會有這樣的行為？我認為，客戶們，說實話，他們是被某種大幅上漲的價格困住了。說實話，我們處在一個相當動盪的世界。地緣政治在市場上發揮的作用比以往任何時候都更大。這不僅是供給和需求的問題。

That's, by the way, not easy for traders today to manage this geopolitical risk, even if I would say all traders within TotalEnergies have done very well in the second quarter, despite this environment. So that's true, but I think the buyers continue to look at it as a way to hedge themselves. Yes, it's true, it's better to sign at 13%, but at 12%, I fully agree with you.

順便說一句，對於今天的交易員來說，管理這種地緣政治風險並不容易，儘管我想說，儘管面臨這樣的環境，道達爾能源公司的所有交易員在第二季度都表現得非常好。這是事實，但我認為買家仍然將其視為一種對沖風險的方式。是的，確實13%簽字比較好，但12%我完全同意你的看法。

But by the way, when you have a long-term contract at the end for a company like TotalEnergies, it's not only percentage which counts, it's also all the optionalities because we have a large portfolio and then we can -- Do you have the capacity to redirect the cargoes? That's a lot of things, which are also important for us. So around a medium-long-term contract, there is more value to extract than just a pure formula.

但順便說一句，當你與 TotalEnergies 這樣的公司簽訂長期合約時，重要的不僅是百分比，還有所有的可選性，因為我們擁有龐大的投資組合，然後我們可以——你有能力重新定向貨物嗎？有很多事情，對我們來說也很重要。因此，圍繞中長期合同，可以提取的價值不僅僅是純粹的公式。

That's why it's important to be a portfolio company. And I think, in fact, one of the advantages of the position of certainness is when we meet these buyers, they see us as a portfolio company and not just as a point-to-point company. I would say seller and buyer, it's just project one. But we are today marketing PNG, Papua LNG, sorry, marketing Papua LNG, and we have some good results in some Asian countries because of the location.

這就是為什麼成為投資組合公司如此重要。我認為，事實上，確定性地位的優勢之一是，當我們與這些買家會面時，他們會將我們視為投資組合公司，而不僅僅是點對點公司。我想說的是賣家和買家，這只是一個項目。但我們今天正在行銷巴布亞紐幾內亞、巴布亞液化天然氣，抱歉，行銷巴布亞液化天然氣，而且由於地理位置的原因，我們在一些亞洲國家取得了一些良好的業績。

So these dynamics are still there, and we continue to work on that. US tariff, I have some good news for you, for us, because we have a real figure. We know we are just -- we are not far from approving, sanctioning, but not us, Rio Grande, next decade. It's not far from sanctioning the '24, or maybe '25.So there have been some, I would say, EPC contracts discussed with Bechtel. And I will tell you, Michele, I was a little afraid. And where do we land with this tariff impact?

所以這些動力仍然存在，我們將繼續努力。美國關稅，我有一些好消息要告訴你，對我們來說，因為我們有一個真實的數字。我們知道我們只是——我們距離批准、認可並不遙遠，但不是我們，裡奧格蘭德，下一個十年。距離批准‘24’或‘25’已經不遠了。因此我想說，我們已經與 Bechtel 討論了一些 EPC 合約。我會告訴你，米歇爾，我有點害怕。那麼，關稅的影響將如何結束？

Finally, of course, there is some inflation, but it's less than 10%, I would say. So it's very reasonable. And so, for me, again, NXDK wants also to commercialize its LNG, so it's more a question of marketing. I think '24 is full, '25 is not yet, but things are moving on, and it's their job. But fundamentally, from this real case, I would say, But we manage, and I think it's also the dynamic when you have a very good EPC contractor. We see some advantage. I think Rio Grande Energy is a success story, trend one, two, three. If we are able to continue on trend four and trend five, then there is also some synergies there.

最後，當然存在一些通貨膨脹，但我認為通貨膨脹率低於 10%。所以這是非常合理的。因此，對我來說，NXDK 也希望將其 LNG 商業化，所以這更多的是一個行銷問題。我認為 24 年已經滿了，25 年還沒有，但事情正在繼續發展，這是他們的工作。但從根本上來說，從這個真實案例來看，我想說，但我們可以做到，而且我認為當你擁有一個非常優秀的 EPC 承包商時，這也是一種動力。我們看到了一些優勢。我認為 Rio Grande Energy 是一個成功的故事，趨勢一、二、三。如果我們能夠繼續趨勢四和趨勢五，那麼也會有一些綜效。

So your answer to you, I would say on this specific case, we are comfortable. We don't see much impact on the tariff. We will see more impact on the tariff, I think, on topics like batteries, because batteries, you have to import most of the cells in the world are manufactured in China. So even if you build the modules in the US, you have to import the cells. So this type of business might will be more impacted.

所以你的回答是，我想說，就這個具體案例而言，我們感到很滿意。我們認為關稅不會受到太大影響。我認為，我們將看到關稅對電池等主題產生更大的影響，因為電池必須進口，而世界上大多數電池都是在中國製造的。因此，即使你在美國製造模組，你也必須進口電池。因此這類業務可能會受到更大的影響。

But from this perspective, I think my my colleagues who are drilling US shale oil are probably more impacted by the increase of tariff on the steel because they are using some specific steel. Most of this steel is impacted, so probably the cost of oil in US shale is more impacted by our own business in the US today.

但從這個角度來看，我認為我的那些正在鑽探美國頁岩油的同事可能受到鋼材關稅增加的更大影響，因為他們使用的是某些特定的鋼材。大部分鋼鐵都受到了影響，因此美國頁岩油的成本可能受到我們目前在美國自身業務的更大影響。

Thank you, Patrick.

謝謝你，派崔克。

Biraj Borkhataria, RBC.

Biraj Borkhataria，RBC。

Hi, thank you for taking my questions. First of all, just on working capital, and if I look at these quarterly changes in working capital over the last few years, it looks like the magnitude, both up and down on a quarterly basis, looks like it's increasing over the last few years. I'm thinking about the period 2017, '18 to now. Just trying to understand if that's something we should expect going forward, whether it's the growth of the power business or something else, whether there's any particular reason for that.

你好，謝謝你回答我的問題。首先，僅就營運資本而言，如果我看一下過去幾年營運資本的季度變化，看起來，無論是按季度上升還是下降，過去幾年的幅度似乎都在增加。我正在考慮 2017 年、2018 年到現在這段時間。只是想了解這是否是我們未來應該期待的事情，無論是電力業務的成長還是其他什麼，是否有任何特殊原因。

And the second question is just a quick one on the buyback. In Q1, you said up to $2 billion buyback. I noted you did $1.7 billion this quarter. Was that just a timing issue or liquidity or a conscious decision to do a bit less there or anything? Any comment on that would be helpful.

第二個問題是關於回購的簡短問題。您在第一季表示將回購高達 20 億美元。我注意到本季你的營業額為 17 億美元。這只是一個時間問題還是流動性問題，或是有意識地決定少做一點，或是其他什麼？任何對此的評論都會有幫助。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Second question, it's easy.

第二個問題，很簡單。

You have to find the right result. It's more a question of timing. We have the 2 billion have been bought by the 13th of July. It was a question of liquidity. So no message for the 1.7. We will catch up according to the guidance of the Board. Okay, so we are working on it. But it's easy to answer the second question. It's to give you insurance on that.

你必須找到正確的結果。這更多的是一個時間問題。截至 7 月 13 日，我們已經購買了 20 億。這是一個流動性的問題。所以1.7版暫時沒有消息。我們會按照董事會的指導進行調整。好的，我們正在努力。但回答第二個問題很容易。這是為了給你保障。

On the first one, the quarterly, look, I think Jean-Pierre told you to make a remark If I'm looking at the end of the first half of 2024, first half of 2025, we had both years built of around $5 billion. In 2023, it was around $4 billion or $3.5 billion. So there is an increase because the more we develop this B2C business in gas and power, which is growing in the company, the more we have a seasonal effect, which is that, in fact, the people are using us, are winning us.

關於第一個季度，看，我認為 Jean-Pierre 告訴你要發表評論，如果我看 2024 年上半年末、2025 年上半年，我們兩年的營收都達到了約 50 億美元。2023年，這一數字約為40億美元或35億美元。因此，銷售額有所成長，因為我們在天然氣和電力領域開展的 B2C 業務越多，公司銷售額就越大，我們受到的季節性影響就越大，事實上，人們正在利用我們，正在贏得我們。

So we are burning a lot of using electricity, consume, sorry, consume electricity and gas during winter times. And as their bill is spread about 12 months, we are working capital effects, which is we catch up. That's increasing a little

因此，我們在冬季會消耗大量的電力，對不起，是消耗電力和天然氣。由於他們的帳單分攤到 12 個月左右，我們正在趕上營運資本效應。這有點增加

Having said that, just to be clear with you, last year, at the end of the last year, we told you in our working capital, the green went down to seven. We made a modification. We told you to be careful. There is an exceptional, I would say, positive element of 1.5 billion. So, for me, what I'm expecting between today and the end of the year is a $5 billion build of the first arch should be, in fact, erased by 3.5, I would say.

話雖如此，只是為了向你明確說明，去年，也就是去年年底，我們告訴你，在我們的營運資金中，綠色下降到了 7。我們做了修改。我們告訴過你要小心。我想說，15億是一個特殊的正面因素。因此，對我來說，我預計從今天到今年年底，第一座拱門的 50 億美元建設成本實際上應該會減少 3.5 億美元。

If I don't have any other exception at all, normally we should, like we've done the previous years, Jean-Pierre has shown a nice graph in front of us. Maybe one day we'll share it with you, which demonstrates the seasonality. And we, of course, presented that to the Board, and we are comfortable with the type of metrics I just gave you to give you more insights of what happened.

如果我沒有其他例外，通常我們應該像前幾年一樣，讓 - 皮埃爾在我們面前展示了一張漂亮的圖表。也許有一天我們會與您分享它，這表明了季節性。當然，我們已經向董事會提交了這一情況，並且我們對我剛才提供的指標類型感到滿意，以便讓大家更深入地了解所發生的事情。

Okay, thank you. And so that's also why, to be honest, when we put together to the Board, and I'm just repeating what I said, this working capital analysis plus this, I would say, CapEx, which have been more weighted on the first half because of the disposal role, And because, as I tried to, I mean, I hope you convinced, I gave you a list of all the proposals which we are committed to and which we are really binding offers on, which we are now translating that in SPA, the Board considered that all these elements give him confidence to maintain this buyback at 2 billion.

好的，謝謝。所以這也是為什麼，說實話，當我們把這些匯總到董事會時，我只是重複我說過的話，這個營運資本分析加上這個，我想說，資本支出，由於處置作用，在上半年的權重更大，而且因為，正如我試圖的那樣，我的意思是，我希望你能信服，我給了你一份我們承諾的所有 SPA，以及我們承諾的所有 SPA。中翻譯這一點，董事會認為所有這些因素都讓他有信心將回購維持在 20 億美元。

Knowing that -- as an average for the year, we are at $70 per barrel. Like, by the way, we made a presentation in February at $70 per barrel, giving you some guidance. And so the $70 per barrel has been the average for the year. Today, when I'm looking to screen, I have a $70. And well, people can say low bearish on demand supply, but at the end of the day, this is the market. And so we keep trust on that.

要知道——今年的平均價格是每桶 70 美元。順便說一下，我們在二月以每桶 70 美元的價格做過一次演示，給你一些指導。因此，每桶 70 美元是今年的平均油價。今天，當我查看螢幕時，我有 70 美元。好吧，人們可以說需求供應低迷，但歸根結底，這就是市場。因此我們對此保持信心。

Irene Himona, Bernstein.

艾琳希莫娜，伯恩斯坦。

Thank you. Good afternoon. Patrick, you told us before that the $2 billion quarterly share buyback is affordable at $70 and at reasonable market conditions. When you look at the balance sheet with the current 15% normalized giving, what is the the normalized gearing range, let's say, that you would see as reasonable. In other words, how high would that normalized gearing have to go to remain acceptable in a $70 environment? And then my second question on integrated gas and LNG, the CFFO in the division declined about 6% in the first half year on year. Are you confident in the cash flow guidance you provided for that division out to 2028? Thank you.

謝謝。午安.帕特里克，您之前告訴我們，20 億美元的季度股票回購價格在 70 美元和合理的市場條件下是可以負擔的。當您查看當前 15% 標準化捐贈的資產負債表時，您認為合理的標準化負債範圍是多少。換句話說，在 70 美元的環境中，正常化的槓桿率要達到多高才能維持可接受的水準？然後我的第二個問題是關於綜合天然氣和液化天然氣，該部門的 CFFO 在上半年比去年同期下降了約 6％。您對為該部門提供的到 2028 年的現金流指導有信心嗎？謝謝。

Be clear. At $70, we told you at the beginning of the year that the target guidance for the gearing was around 12%, 13%, if I remember well. There were some pure assumptions in it. So, in particular, there was the idea that the downstream could target a cash of $7 billion.

要清楚。在 70 美元時，如果我沒記錯的話，我們在年初告訴過您，槓桿率的目標指導值約為 12% 或 13%。其中有一些純粹的假設。因此，具體來說，下游可以瞄準 70 億美元的現金。

To be honest, today, we've done 2.5 the first year. We think the downstream will improve because the margins, the third quarter margins on refining are always better. As is the case, we have margins today of about $60 per tonne. It's good.

說實話，今天，第一年我們已經做了2.5個。我們認為下游產業將會改善，因為利潤率，第三季煉油利潤率總是更好。事實上，我們今天的利潤約為每噸 60 美元。很好。

Second, I'm really confident that the performance of the two assets I've mentioned will improve. Teams are working hard. So I would say maybe not seven, maybe six, but we are not so far. So I have one. So I would say for me, at the end, we are still targeting 14%, 15% gearing by the end of the year. So the normalized gearing for us at 15% is a good guidance. And the Board is comfortable with 15% at $70.

其次，我非常有信心我所提到的兩種資產的表現將會改善。團隊正在努力工作。所以我想說也許不是七個，也許是六個，但距離不算太遠。所以我有一個。因此我想說，對我來說，到年底我們仍然以 14%、15% 的負債比率作為目標。因此，對我們來說，15% 的標準化槓桿率是一個很好的指導。董事會對於 15% 的利率（70 美元）感到滿意。

This is a message I think we deliver to you. So again, it's not only the gearing, the balance sheet. We know that there is volatility. It's more, we observe the markets. And today, as I said, there are some pros, some cons. We not only look to be all markets. Gas markets, I would say we are quite confident for next year. But also the petrochemical markets, the downstream markets.

我想這是我們向你們傳達的訊息。所以，這不僅僅是槓桿率，還有資產負債表。我們知道存在波動。更重要的是，我們觀察市場。今天，正如我所說，有一些優點，也有一些缺點。我們不僅著眼於所有市場。天然氣市場，我想說我們對明年非常有信心。還有石化市場、下游市場。

here are some good reasons to think that the diesel spread is quite strong, in particular with all what happens around Russia. So it's a global approach that we take. But let's say at $70, 15% we are comfortable to maintain this buyback level.

有一些很好的理由讓我們認為柴油價差相當強勁，特別是考慮到俄羅斯的情況。因此，我們採取的是全球化的方法。但假設價格為 70 美元，即 15%，我們可以輕鬆地維持這一回購水準。

Then the second question, and I understand your question, why? But, I mean, we will, of course, give you more information by end of September, September investor meeting. We come back traditionally with all the data of our five-year business plan. So we'll, of course, update you on both the growth for upstream, the LNG part as well. I can tell you that I think last year we gave you some guidance which were something like $6 billion or $60 billion, $7.5 billion or $80 billion. And the figures that I read recently from our five-year business plans are confirming this guidance. So we will give more color by the end of September, but I'm confident we can do that.

那麼第二個問題，我理解你的問題，為什麼？但是，我的意思是，我們當然會在 9 月底的 9 月投資者會議之前向您提供更多資訊。我們按照慣例帶著五年商業計劃的所有數據回來。因此，我們當然會向您通報上游和液化天然氣部分的成長情況。我可以告訴你，我想去年我們給了你一些指導，像是 60 億美元、600 億美元、75 億美元或 800 億美元。我最近從我們的五年商業計劃中讀到的數據證實了這項指導。因此，我們將在九月底之前提供更多顏色，但我相信我們能夠做到這一點。

Honestly, the small miss that I observe as well, to be clear, it's not so big. It's linked to in the gas, in fact. In fact, gas markets were in Europe, but they have no volatility. You've seen quite a good volatility in the oil price, moving from $60 to $70, even $81. And our traders were really able to capture that during the second quarter, so congratulations to them.

老實說，我也觀察到了小失誤，但要清楚，它並沒有那麼大。事實上，它與氣體有關。事實上，天然氣市場在歐洲，但沒有波動。你已經看到油價波動很大，從 60 美元漲到 70 美元，甚至 81 美元。我們的交易員確實能夠在第二季度抓住這一點，所以向他們表示祝賀。

On the gas, when you look at the gas price in Europe, the TTF, I think, was moving from $11 to $12, maybe a little $12.5. So there was little volatility, and And by the way, again, it's true, I've seen some comments from one of our peers, that in this type of market where sometimes it's not only supply and demand, it's more political impacts, traders are a little more cautious not to take direct directional positions, which could be hit by a tweet.

關於汽油，看看歐洲的汽油價格，我認為TTF（特許權使用費）從11美元漲到了12美元，甚至可能跌到了12.5美元。所以波動很小。順便說一句，我確實看到一位同行的評論，在這種有時不僅受供需影響，還受政治影響的市場中，交易員會更加謹慎，不會直接持有方向性倉位，因為一條推文就可能對其造成影響。

So it's a little more difficult for them to analyze the market beyond the fundamentals, which is their job, normally, fundamentals to do. That's the point. So there will be no change in the guidance. Our energy business will grow, will deliver the growth from Qatar, from the US, and it will positively impact the CFFO.

因此，對他們來說，除了基本面之外，分析市場會更加困難，而這通常是他們的工作，也就是分析基本面。這就是重點。因此指導意見不會改變。我們的能源業務將會成長，將帶來來自卡達和美國的成長，並將對 CFFO 產生正面影響。

Thank you, Patrick.

謝謝你，派崔克。

Martin Ratz, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的馬丁·拉茲。

Yeah, I wanted to ask you two. First, If I can pick you up on the point on refining, because, of course, I read your outlook statement, which looks quite cautious on the outlook for refining, talking about long-term structural challenges. But we have really quite encouraging refining margin on the screen. As of today, over the last couple of weeks, there's a lot of strength in middle distillate.

是的，我想問你們兩個。首先，如果我可以就煉油問題與您取得聯繫，因為，當然，我讀過您的展望聲明，它對煉油前景持相當謹慎的態度，談到了長期的結構性挑戰。但我們在螢幕上的精煉利潤率確實相當令人鼓舞。截至今天，過去幾週，中間餾分油價格表現強勁。

So reading the outlook statement, what sort of was shining through was a clear belief, I think, that this is sort of temporary. And I was wondering if you could say a few words about refining. in your mind, what is explaining this recent bout of strength, but also how long this could last and how it could dissipate.

因此，閱讀展望聲明時，我認為，顯而易見的一點是，這只是暫時的。我想知道您是否可以談談精煉。在您看來，是什麼導致了最近的這種強勢，以及這種強勢會持續多久以及它將如何消散。

We're closing a lot of refineries in Europe this year, so I kind of thought that the remaining refineries of Total, at least in Europe, actually should have quite a decent 2026 as well. But I was hoping you could give a few thoughts on that. And also, I wanted to ask if you could give us an update on Mozambique and the project there and what we can expect going forward.

我們今年將關閉歐洲的許多煉油廠，所以我認為道達爾剩餘的煉油廠，至少在歐洲，到 2026 年實際上也應該會有相當不錯的表現。但我希望您能對此發表一些看法。另外，我想問您是否可以向我們介紹莫三比克和那裡的項目的最新情況，以及我們對未來的期望。

Okay, refining is an interesting question. I think in particular what is clearly today happened is that there is a diesel driver in the market to explain why refining margins are quite good. And we think that stronger diesel prices become a persistent feature on the global market. It's linked in particular to all what happened around Russia flows.

好的，精煉是一個有趣的問題。我認為今天特別明顯的是市場上有柴油驅動因素，這可以解釋為什麼煉油利潤率相當高。我們認為柴油價格上漲將成為全球市場的持續特徵。這與俄羅斯週邊發生的一切尤其相關。

In fact, the Europeans have banned, have stopped buying Russian petroleum products early 23. And that means that the source of diesel, because Europe is fundamentally the deficit of diesel, so we are obliged to import. The source of diesel are coming now from Middle East or from US refineries further away.

事實上，歐洲早在23日就已禁止、停止購買俄羅斯石油產品。這意味著柴油的來源，因為歐洲從根本上缺乏柴油，所以我們有義務進口。現在柴油的來源是中東或更遠的美國煉油廠。

So it has increased the cost of all that. I would say the last decision of the European Union, which is to ban gasoline, imports from refineries even outside of Russia and targeting some refineries, I think, in India or Turkey, which would use Russian crude oil to be refined to make diesel is impacting again, I would say, increasing the scarcity of source of diesel for Europe.

所以這增加了所有這些的成本。我想說，歐盟的最後決定是禁止從俄羅斯以外的煉油廠進口汽油，並針對印度或土耳其的一些煉油廠，這些煉油廠將使用俄羅斯原油提煉柴油，我想這再次產生影響，這將加劇歐洲柴油來源的稀缺性。

So it's an additional signal which goes in the same direction. On diesel as well, as you have observed, Diesel is easier to produce from heavier crude oil than light crude oil. And in fact, the mix of the crude oil, the basket, is lighter and lighter because of shale oil. So in fact, that means that it's more difficult, more costly to produce diesel

所以它是朝著同一方向的附加訊號。對於柴油也是如此，正如您所觀察到的，用重質原油生產柴油比用輕原油生產柴油更容易。事實上，由於頁岩油的存在，原油混合物（一籃子原油）的重量越來越輕。所以實際上，這意味著生產柴油更加困難，成本更高

So that's another source, which is again, I would say, and you have also more NGL when we speak about liquid. So NGL plus light oil, again, is not good for making diesel. That is again -- pushing diesel prices up. And I think that's the fundamentals. If I try to analyze the diesel, the fundamentals which are supporting this market, in Q3, of course, it's a driving season, so there is more demand.

所以這是另一個來源，我想說，當我們談論液體時，你還會有更多的 NGL。因此，NGL 加輕油不適合製造柴油。這又一次推高了柴油價格。我認為這就是基本原則。如果我嘗試分析柴油，那麼支撐這個市場的基本面當然是第三季的駕駛季節，因此需求會更大。

But I think the news coming, people have underestimated this news from the EU banning imports of products from non-Russian refineries if they use Russian crude oil. That, of course, is pushing up. So there is something for me more structural there. Then it's a margin business. It's not like oil, but this is a point. On Mozambique, we are working. It's a major project. And I would say we are working in order to ensure a very strong alignment between the government of Mozambique and the investors. And this is, for me, absolutely necessary before we re-engage to have a very strong alignment between the Mozambican authorities and the investors.

但我認為，人們低估了歐盟禁止進口使用俄羅斯原油的非俄羅斯煉油廠產品。這當然是向上推的。所以對我來說那裡有更多結構性的東西。那麼這就是保證金業務。它不像石油，但這是一個觀點。在莫三比克問題上，我們正在努力。這是一個重大項目。我想說，我們正在努力確保莫三比克政府和投資者之間建立緊密的聯繫。對我來說，在我們重新參與之前，這絕對是必要的，以使莫三比克當局和投資者之間建立非常緊密的聯繫。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Lydia Rainforth, Barclays. Please go ahead.

巴克萊銀行的 Lydia Rainforth。請繼續。

Thank you, and good afternoon. Two questions, if I could. Firstly, just picking up on the downstream and the structural side, can you talk about the potential you see from the digital AI deployment that you announced, I think, with Emerson, and how quickly do we start to see results on that?

謝謝，下午好。如果可以的話，我有兩個問題。首先，僅從下游和結構方面來說，您能否談談您與艾默生共同宣布的數位人工智慧部署的潛力，以及我們多快才能看到成果？

And then secondly, if I can come back to the buyback, I mean, I get the idea that the rest of 25 looks covered by divestments, that gearing doesn't go up, that you can afford the $2 billion per quarter. But you did talk about the payout ratio being high at 55%. So I'm just thinking about as we go into sort of next year, how you're thinking about that and why you want to stick to that $2 billion buyback. Is it just because you're seeing the value in a share price or just really why you still think that's the right level? Thanks, Patrick.

其次，如果我可以回到回購問題，我的意思是，我認為其餘 25 家公司似乎已被資產剝離所覆蓋，負債率不會上升，你可以負擔每季 20 億美元的資金。但您確實談到了派息率高達 55%。所以我只是在想，當我們進入明年時，您對此有何看法，以及為什麼要堅持 20 億美元的回購。是因為您看到了股價的價值，還是因為您仍然認為這是正確的水平？謝謝，派崔克。

Thank you. First question, thank you for the question of AI and digital. We are now moving, going, I would say, from words to action. And this is, these announcements with Emerson on data digital is quite fundamental. In fact, we have decided to invest in, I would say, a real-time data platform. We need to structure all this data. It will be done not on a pilot basis, but on a worldwide basis.

謝謝。第一個問題，感謝您提出關於人工智慧和數位化的問題。我想說，我們現在正在從言論走向行動。而且，與艾默生就數據數位化所發布的這些聲明是相當重要的。事實上，我們已經決定投資一個即時數據平台。我們需要將所有這些資料結構化。這項措施不會以試點形式實施，而是在全球範圍內實施。

For all our assets, in downstream and refineries, also in upstream, so the same platform, which is the innovation platform, which behind the platform, we are developing with MSM some softwares, which the objective is to, I would say, enhance the value we can extract from the assets.

對於我們所有的資產，無論是下游和煉油廠，還是上游，都有相同的平台，即創新平台，在平台背後，我們正在與 MSM 合作開發一些軟體，其目標是提高我們可以從資產中提取的價值。

And there are two programs, one on advanced process control and upstream. Advanced process control is technologies which are used in refineries for long, which were not used in the upstream, so we use them on our upstream assets, and we think, since my upstreamers have discovered it, they are a fan of that, so this is a promote. And we are also working on the downstream to going beyond advanced process control in order to make more developments on software based on data with AI.

還有兩個項目，一個是關於先進過程控制，另一個是關於上游。先進的製程控制是煉油廠長期使用的技術，而上游並未使用過，因此我們將其用於我們的上游資產，我們認為，既然我的上游已經發現了它，他們就會喜歡它，所以這是一種推廣。我們也在下游致力於超越先進的過程控制，以便在基於人工智慧的數據軟體上取得更多開發。

So it is really for us, and I'm a believer that AI is not only cutting costs, that's for I would say general services, it's enhancing the value of the assets because we could better monitor these machines. So this is a rule of purpose. No, for TotalEnergies, it's action.

所以這對我們來說確實如此，我相信人工智慧不僅可以降低成本，對於一般服務來說，它可以提高資產的價值，因為我們可以更好地監控這些機器。所以這是一條有目的的規則。不，對 TotalEnergies 來說，這是行動。

And we are also, by the way, working with another company, and there will be an announcement soon to another additional AI platform which will come on assets. So that's good because digital, for me, it really is a source of future competitiveness in our operations. We are also establishing, by the way, within One Tech, a full digital line. It's not a question of IT people. It's a matter of business people to put it at the heart of the technology of the assets. And the digital line will be established within One Tech with strong teams. So that's for this one.

順便說一句，我們還在與另一家公司合作，很快就會宣布推出另一個基於資產的人工智慧平台。這很好，因為對我來說，數位化確實是我們未來營運競爭力的來源。順便說一下，我們還在 One Tech 內部建立了一條完整的數位生產線。這不是 IT 人員的問題。把它置於資產技術的核心地位是商人的事。而數位線路將在One Tech內部建立，擁有強大的團隊。這就是這個。

On the second one, when we think about buyback, Firstly, why do we buy back? It's a fundamental. It's just a matter also of good management of the money of Jean-Pierre. What I observe is that today, Jean-Pierre has been able, with his teams, to make a bond issuance in euros, recently again, at around 3.5%. So we borrow money at a depth of 3.5%.

第二個問題，當我們考慮回購的時候，第一，我們為什麼要回購？這是基本原則。這也只是讓·皮埃爾資金管理得宜的問題。我觀察到的是，今天，讓·皮埃爾和他的團隊能夠以歐元發行債券，利率最近再次達到 3.5% 左右。因此，我們的借款深度為 3.5%。

At the same time, but I hope it will not be for long, but considering the share of value share, we serve -- the cost of the capital, if I say the dividend over the share value, is around 6%. So why do I make buyback? It's not because it's just, you can demonstrate to anybody, but I'm saving some money from one side and I'm borrowing at the lower side. That's the fundamental. And on the top of it, when you buy back, as I said, it's a base of increasing future dividends. So it's a virtuous circle. So there are the two fundamental reasons.

同時，但我希望這種情況不會持續太久，但考慮到我們所服務的價值份額——如果我說股息佔股票價值的比例，那麼資本成本約為 6%。那我為什麼要回購呢？這並不是因為它只是，你可以向任何人證明，而是我從一方面節省了一些錢，而我在較低的方面借款。這是根本。最重要的是，當你回購時，正如我所說，這是增加未來股息的基礎。所以這是一個良性循環。所以有兩個根本原因。

Then the question, we benefit from a strong balance sheet. In the past, it was a 30%, 40% gearing. Today, people have questions because we move from 10% to 15%. Okay, let me be clear. We should look at it, and I see titles in newspapers, but I'm a little surprised as if it's problematic. No, I think we need to monitor that.

那麼問題是，我們受益於強勁的資產負債表。過去，槓桿率是 30%、40%。今天，人們有了疑問，因為我們從 10% 上升到了 15%。好的，讓我說清楚。我們應該看看它，我在報紙上看到了標題，但我有點驚訝，好像它有問題。不，我認為我們需要監控這一點。

For me, again, there is a point. I answer to a question, what is reasonable? I think I said 65%, 70% is reasonable. That means that at a certain point beyond 60, 65, maybe not reasonable. But we'll see that. And I will come back to you because I know that, unfortunately, we will give guidance to all of you. We want always more color on it. So the reasonable guidance is maybe not enough for you.

對我來說，這又是一個道理。我回答一個問題，什麼是合理的？我認為我說的65%、70%是合理的。這意味著，超過 60 歲、65 歲之後，可能就不再合理了。但我們會看到這一點。我會回來找你們，因為我知道，不幸的是，我們會給你們所有人提供指導。我們總是希望它能有更多的色彩。所以合理的指導對你來說可能還不夠。

So end of September, we are working with the Board. We'll come with you with, I would say, more information. not fully detailed. We'd like to keep some capacity to maneuver, but we'll give you answering your question. In particular, because we are at 70, we are no more 80. Some people in the market look to 60, so I think it will be time to come back with you with a clearer picture. Today, we stick to what we said. We are $70 for the first half, $70 on the market, and the $70 we committed to $2 billion at the beginning of the year. And even if we have a lower cash flow from the downstream, it does not change dramatically. A billion-dollar miss will not change the full picture like that.

因此，九月底，我們將與董事會合作。我想說的是，我們會向您提供更多信息，但不是完全詳細的。我們希望保留一些機動能力，但我們會回答您的問題。特別是，因為我們已經 70 歲了，但不再是 80 歲了。市場上有些人將目光投向了 60 歲，所以我認為現在是時候帶著更清晰的願景回來了。今天，我們堅守我們所說的話。我們上半年投入是70美元，市場投入是70美元，年初我們承諾的20億美元投入也是70美元。即使下游的現金流減少，也不會發生太大的變化。十億美元的失誤不會改變整個局面。

Doug Leggate, Wolfe Research.

道格‧萊格特（Doug Leggate），沃爾夫研究公司。

Thank you. Good morning, everyone, or good afternoon over there. Patrick, I think the working capital discussion has been fairly well debated, but I'm wondering about the CapEx guide for the year. You're running pretty hot, obviously, with the acquisitions year to date versus the $17 to $7.5 billion guide. What visibility can you give us on disposals to get you back into that range in the second half of the year?

謝謝。大家早安，或是下午好。派崔克，我認為營運資本討論已經相當充分了，但我想知道今年的資本支出指南。顯然，今年迄今的收購金額與 170 億美元至 75 億美元的預期相比，表現相當不錯。您能提供我們哪些有關處置的信息，以便讓您在下半年回到這個範圍？

Okay, Chris.

好的，克里斯。

Doug, sorry. I think I gave you in my speech, I tried to give you a lot of visibility, more than ever I've done, I think. So I think it's the first time, because I knew that you will have to be secured with that, because you better know it. Generally, when I say something, we execute it. I know it's a matter of credibility, but what I told you is that we had already Bunga, which has been divested. I told you that we have Approve that the executive committee has taken some binding offers from other assets, in particular, our own conventional oil license in Argentina.

道格，對不起。我想我在演講中已經告訴過你們，我試著讓你們更多地了解情況，我想，我做的比以往任何時候都多。所以我認為這是第一次，因為我知道你必須對此有把握，因為你最好了解這一點。一般來說，只要我說什麼，我們就會執行。我知道這是一個信譽問題，但我告訴過你的是，我們已經擁有了 Bunga，它已經被剝離了。我告訴過你，我們已經批准執行委員會從其他資產中接受一些具有約束力的報價，特別是我們自己在阿根廷的常規石油許可證。

We have a good offer. And two other assets that I cannot disclose because it's not yet public, but it will come. So it represents $1 billion. We have another billion coming from closing the onshore Nigeria divestments, which was announced last year. In Nigeria, it's always longer, but we are working on it. And then, of course, we have all the farm downs on the integrated power, which will represent $1.5 billion. So when you make the math, 1 plus 1 plus 1.5 makes $3.5 billion. And it's more or less the guidance of the year for CapEx was a net between acquisition divestments of zero, which is what I told you at the beginning of the year.

我們有一個很好的報價。另外兩項資產我還不能透露，因為尚未公開，但很快就會公開。所以它代表10億美元。我們還將獲得 10 億美元，這筆資金來自去年宣布的尼日利亞境內撤資計畫。在尼日利亞，這個時間總是更長，但我們正在努力。當然，我們也擁有綜合電力的所有農場土地，這將耗資 15 億美元。因此，計算一下，1 加 1 加 1.5 等於 35 億美元。今年的資本支出指導值大致是收購撤資之間的淨額為零，這正是我在年初告訴你們的。

And on the organic CapEx, we are in line. To be honest, I assigned even a small margin challenge to my teams telling them that 17, 17.5 is within the range. It would be better to be next to 17 than next to 17.5. It's a challenge. I'm not sure that we will manage, but we are working on that.

在有機資本支出方面，我們符合要求。說實話，我給我的團隊佈置了一個很小的差距挑戰，告訴他們 17、17.5 都在範圍內。接近17比接近17.5要好。這是一個挑戰。我不確定我們是否能夠做到，但我們正在努力。

It's early here. I guess I missed the details.

這裡還很早。我想我錯過了一些細節。

Sorry, Patrick, but thank you for -- Again, you should benefit of it because I'm not sure I will do it again to give more visibility.

抱歉，帕特里克，但還是謝謝你——再次感謝，你應該從中受益，因為我不確定我是否會再次這樣做以提供更多的知名度。

My follow-up is a little detailed. You bought or you took the 25% of SEPSA's block or share in block 53 in Suriname. And our understanding is that from one of your, basically your FPSO providers that Things might be moving a bit faster there. Can you offer any insight on the timing, your latest thoughts on Grand Morgue, and what Block 53 means for the resource recovery and perhaps the plateau production? Yes, sir.

我的後續有點詳細。您購買或獲得了 SEPSA 在蘇利南 53 號區塊的 25% 的區塊或股份。我們從你們的 FPSO 供應商那裡了解到，那裡的進展可能會更快一些。您能否提供一些關於時間安排的見解、您對 Grand Morgue 的最新想法以及第 53 區塊對於資源回收和高原生產意味著什麼？是的，先生。

I mean, on Grand Mogul, honestly, I don't know who is telling you they are moving faster. I would be very happy if we deliver the first hole by beginning first half 28 that we committed. No, I think they are moving. I recently went to KL, to Kuala Lumpur, where I met my teams. There was good news and some a little more cautious news.

我的意思是，就 Grand Mogul 而言，老實說，我不知道是誰告訴你他們的行動速度更快。如果我們能在上半場第 28 洞打出我們承諾的第一洞，我會非常高興。不，我認為他們正在移動。我最近去了吉隆坡，在那裡與我的團隊會面。有好消息，也有一些較為謹慎的消息。

So I need to take all that. No, honestly, we are, for me, there is no reason to change, no reason to accelerate, but But then block 5053, there was a small discovery there. I mean, we're in the range of 50 million barrels. So we had the opportunity to capture it for quite a decent amount, quite very reasonable ones.

所以我需要接受這一切。不，老實說，對我來說，我們沒有理由改變，沒有理由加速，但然後在區塊 5053，那裡有一個小發現。我的意思是，我們的產量在 5000 萬桶左右。因此，我們有機會以相當可觀的價格、相當合理的價格獲得它。

Cepsa wants to exit from upstream. So we have the options buyers. So we will connect it. We have, I think we have, the plateau of Grand Mogo is at 220,000 boil per day. These machines, generally, when we are designing them for 220, they can easily go up to 240. It's not 10% is generally the case. So if we can connect these type of things, it will give more value. But for me, as I always told you, since we sanctioned Grand Mogo, There is a lot of hydrocarbons, including around, we made other discoveries that we put behind. So there will be a planning. We are discussing, we are trying to look to come back on some and to appraise some of the previous discoveries. So I've asked my teams because even if there's maybe not enough to make a second FPSO, but for sure the objective is to extend the plateau and to make a higher plateau to create a lot of value from this infrastructure. So it was a very good opportunity for us to make things. And being inside will smooth all these type of unitization stories and be a partner of it. It will help a lot with our colleagues in order to move these resources quicker.

Cepsa 希望退出上游領域。所以我們有選擇買家。因此我們將把它連接起來。我認為我們有，Grand Mogo 高原每天的沸點是 220,000。一般來說，當我們為 220 設計這些機器時，它們可以輕鬆達到 240。一般情況下不會是10%。因此，如果我們能夠將這些類型的事物連接起來，它將產生更大的價值。但對我來說，正如我一直告訴你的那樣，自從我們批准了 Grand Mogo 以來，那裡有很多碳氫化合物，包括周圍，我們發現了其他一些我們擱置的資源。所以會有一個規劃。我們正在討論，我們正在嘗試回顧並評估一些先前的發現。所以我問了我的團隊，因為即使可能沒有足夠的資源來製造第二艘 FPSO，但目標肯定是擴大平台並製造更高的平台，以從這個基礎設施中創造大量價值。所以這對我們來說是一個非常好的創造機會。身處其中將會使所有這些類型的單元化故事變得順利，並成為其中的合作夥伴。這將對我們的同事更快轉移這些資源有很大幫助。

Thank you very much indeed.

真的非常感謝。

[Kristopher Copeland], Bank of America. Please go ahead.

[Kristopher Copeland]，美國銀行。請繼續。

Hi there. Thanks for taking my questions.

你好呀。感謝您回答我的問題。

Just two quick ones, please. On FX, can I ask, your dividend has become almost 10% more expensive since the start of the year in dollar terms. Is that still irrelevant in the greater scheme of things, Patrick? As you said, a billion in downstream here or there, 10% of the dividend is less than a billion. How does that inform your take on the overall payout? And secondly, if I may, has the arbitration outcome between Exxon and Hess changed anything the way you are thinking about rights of first refusals in contracts? Thank you.

請簡單回答兩個問題。關於外匯，請問一下，自今年年初以來，您的股息以美元計算已經上漲了近 10%。派崔克，從更大的角度來看這仍然無關緊要嗎？正如你所說，下游這裡十億，那裡十%的股息還不到十億。這如何影響您對整體支出的看法？其次，如果可以的話，埃克森美孚和赫斯之間的仲裁結果是否改變了您對合約優先購買權的看法？謝謝。

Well, this question is easy. No, because I think clearly I would say, by the way, I don't like generally too much the right of first refusal or right of preemption because generally when you give that in a contract, You lower the value of the assets because, of course, so it's more complex to monetize an asset when there is this type of right of preemption or right of first refusal. Right of first refusal, by the way, for me, it's never been clear. Right of preemption, I understand what I have to do. Right of first refusal, you are with the debate, you are asking for something, but what is the right to say no? I mean, it's always a source of confusion. I think the outcome is good for the industry because this type of clause exists in many GOAs. They are standard AIP and clause, and it would have been quite a problem if suddenly we had to review all these clauses in all GOAs. So I'm comfortable with the outcome. I don't have all the details, to be honest, of the clause itself, but that's for me the way I'm thinking. I prefer, honestly, right of preemption if I have to accept an error or is a little difficult to manage.

嗯，這個問題很簡單。不，因為我清楚地知道，順便說一句，我一般不太喜歡優先購買權或優先購買權，因為一般來說，當你在合約中給予這種權利時，你會降低資產的價值，因為，當然，當有這種優先購買權或優先購買權時，將資產貨幣化會更加複雜。順便說一句，優先購買權對我來說從來都不是很清楚。優先購買權，我明白我必須做什麼。優先購買權，你參與辯論，你要求一些東西，但說不的權利是什麼？我的意思是，它總是讓人困惑。我認為這個結果對產業來說是好的，因為許多政府協議中都存在這種條款。它們是標準的 AIP 和條款，如果我們突然必須審查所有 GOA 中的所有這些條款，那將是一個很大的問題。所以我對結果感到滿意。說實話，我並不了解該條款本身的全部細節，但我就是這麼想的。說實話，如果我必須接受錯誤或有點難以管理，我更喜歡優先購買權。

On the SPIC, no, I think I'm working on the control of Jean-Pierre. There is no real impact on 25 because, in fact, 25, first, we make quarterly dividends. So the advantage is that most of the dividends at the beginning of the year were even lower. I think one of them was lower than 1.01, 1.06. So on the average of the year, there will be a very limited impact, maybe $200 million or something like that. So it's not sizable. There is an impact.

關於 SPIC，不，我認為我正在致力於 Jean-Pierre 的控制。對 25 沒有實際影響，因為事實上，25 首先，我們按季度派發股息。所以好處是，年初的股利大部分都更低。我認為其中一個低於1.01或1.06。所以，就全年平均而言，影響非常有限，大概在2億美元左右。所以它並不大。有影響。

Your question is more relevant, and that's part of when I say the macro environment for the Board. There is also this question of US dollar-euro exchange rate. We design, I would say, at $17 when we say -- in fact, the return to shareholder, you could translate it at $16 billion. It was 8 of dividends plus 8 of buybacks. $16 billion at $70, we are considering that it was a high return, but a return we could support.

您的問題比較相關，這也是我所說的董事會宏觀環境的一部分。還有美元兌歐元匯率的問題。我想說，我們設計的回報率是 17 美元——事實上，股東回報率可以轉化為 160 億美元。這是 8% 的股息加上 8% 的回購。 160 億美元，每股 70 美元，我們認為這是一個高回報，但我們可以支持的回報。

Of course, if we engage and we have not yet enough, I would say, background on the dollar-euro exchange rate, but if we consider the macro is going from 1.1 to 1.2, then the $16 billion could be done in another way, and that's the way the Board will think about it. If we have to spend 10% more on the dividend, '26, then we'll have to adapt.

當然，如果我們參與其中，但我們還沒有足夠的關於美元兌歐元匯率的背景信息，那麼如果我們考慮到宏觀匯率從 1.1 升至 1.2，那麼這 160 億美元可以用另一種方式來做，董事會也會這樣考慮。如果我們必須在股息上多支出 10%，即 26%，那麼我們就必須適應。

Keep in mind that it's $16 billion in that case. But it's too uncertain today. Again, I've seen the dollar-euro rate moving down to 1.06 at the beginning of the year, and today it's 1.16. So before to overreact, we are waiting to see what will be done, and we'll have more clarity with quarter to come. But yes, it will be taken into account. If it is a vote, consider that we are entering into a more systemic, I would say, 1.2 euro-dollar rate, then $16 billion could be done in another way, knowing that the dividend is always a priority for the Board.

請記住，在這種情況下，金額是 160 億美元。但今天情況太不確定了。再說一次，我看到美元兌歐元匯率在年初跌至1.06，而今天是1.16。所以在反應過度之前，我們正在觀望後續行動，下個季度我們會有更清晰的認知。但是是的，它會被考慮進去。如果進行投票，考慮到我們正在進入一個更系統性的匯率，我想說，1.2 歐元兌美元，那麼 160 億美元可以用另一種方式完成，因為要知道股息始終是董事會的優先事項。

Really appreciate that. Thank you, Patrick.

真的很感激。謝謝你，派崔克。

Matt Lofting, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的馬特‧洛夫廷 (Matt Lofting)。

Thanks for taking the question. I wanted to just come back on the earlier comments on gearing and the balance sheet. If I understood right, I think you were saying that 12% to 13% gearing year-end of $70 from February is now more in the range of $14 to $15. Sounded like downstream cash flow at around a billion is a part of that, but I guess the margin assumption is $35 looks okay versus where we sit today. So could you just add a bit more color around sort of where the delta is there on gearing and perhaps within the downstream piece, the sources of those moving parts, but perhaps more through asset performance than the margin. Thank you.

感謝您回答這個問題。我只是想回顧一下之前關於槓桿和資產負債表的評論。如果我理解正確的話，我想您說的是，從 2 月開始，12% 至 13% 的槓桿率年底為 70 美元，現在則在 14 美元至 15 美元的範圍內。聽起來大約 10 億美元的下游現金流是其中的一部分，但我猜 35 美元的保證金假設與我們今天的水平相比看起來還不錯。那麼，您能否稍微解釋一下槓桿率的增量在哪裡，以及可能在下游部分，那些活動部件的來源，但可能更多地是透過資產表現而不是利潤率。謝謝。

Yeah, but I've been clear.

是的，但我已經說清楚了。

Honestly, there is a miss on the first half, I will note, on the downstream part, and partly is leading to the performance in particular of two assets that I mentioned in the second quarter. The bad performance of, I would say, Port Arthur and Donges cost us almost $100 million.

老實說，我要指出的是，上半年在下游部分錶現不佳，這在一定程度上導致了我在第二季度提到的兩項資產的表現。我想說，亞瑟港和東格斯的糟糕表現讓我們損失了近 1 億美元。

There is another element, two other elements in the downstream today. One is the biofuels market in Europe. There is another supply today in Europe on the biofuel market, the famous soft market today. Europe and the airline companies are so afraid there is a miss, but Europe is importing from all over the planet, and it has crushed the margin today.

今天下游還有另一個元素，另外兩個元素。一個是歐洲的生物燃料市場。今天歐洲的生物燃料市場還有另一種供應，就是今天著名的軟市場。歐洲和航空公司非常擔心會出現失誤，但歐洲正在從世界各地進口，如今利潤率已經大幅下降。

There is little difference today between a biodiesel and a diesel margin. So it has spread again. So that's a low signal. And then petrochemicals. And honestly, on the polymer side, we did not comment that too much. But there are several quotas where we suffer from it, in fact. And it's not only Europe. It's also Korea.

如今，生質柴油和柴油的利潤率差異不大。所以它又傳播開了。所以這是一個低訊號。然後是石化產品。老實說，在聚合物方面，我們並沒有評論太多。但事實上，有好幾個配額都讓我們遭遇了這個問題。而這種情況並非只發生在歐洲。也是韓國。

In fact, today, we have to think about it. There was a lot of capacity put on stream. In the US, plenty of crackers. not because of a domestic market, but for export markets, exporting to South America or to China. But in the meantime, at the same time, Chinese have built a lot of petrochemical capacities, which, by the way, are supplied by NGOs coming from the US So it's a little funny, all that.

其實，今天，我們必須要思考這個問題。大量產能投入營運。在美國，有很多餅乾，不是因為國內市場，而是為了出口市場，出口到南美洲或中國。但同時，中國也建立了大量的石化產能，而這些產能都是由來自美國的非政府組織提供的，所以這一切都有點好笑。

And this created -- in fact, the Chinese have followed a policy of almost self-supplying in petrochemicals. They try to secure, they are obsessed by this idea of security of sovereign economic sovereignty, economic security. And so today, in fact, when you look, even the Chinese are complaining, by the way, because most of their petrochemicals are on NAFTA, and they are complaining.

事實上，這導致中國一直奉行石化產品幾乎自給自足的政策。他們試圖確保，他們沉迷於主權經濟主權、經濟安全這個安全概念。所以今天，事實上，如果你看一下，你會發現就連中國人也在抱怨，因為他們的大部分石化產品都屬於北美自由貿易協定，所以他們在抱怨。

I met the Chairman of Sinopec. I told him, yes, but you are a little, yes, you are. So you have a lot of polymers, US, Middle East, China, and that today, in a global macro, which is not so good, you have a global slowdown, and industrial activity in China is not as strong as it was before

我見到了中國石化董事長。我告訴他，是的，但是你有點，是的，你是。因此，你有很多聚合物，美國、中東、中國，而今天，在全球宏觀層面上，情況不太好，全球經濟放緩，中國的工業活動不像以前那麼強勁

And so this is clearly on polymers there is an impact and I'm not surprised to see today, by the way. It's good news but we have just announced we shut down one of our crackers in Antwerp but other crackers have been shut down in fact last year in France and so crackers shutting down so of course these industrial tools in Europe begin to face the overcapacity that we have. We are obliged now to streamline. So it will take time when we enter into a low cycle because, again, you have to take strong decisions to shut down a plant.

因此，這顯然對聚合物有影響，順便說一句，我今天看到這一點並不感到驚訝。這是個好消息，但我們剛剛宣布關閉了位於安特衛普的一座裂解裝置，但事實上，去年法國的其他裂解裝置也已關閉，因此裂解裝置關閉，當然，歐洲的這些工業工具開始面臨產能過剩的問題。我們現在有義務精簡。因此，當我們進入低迷週期時需要時間，因為你必須做出強有力的決定來關閉一家工廠。

So that's the point. So that's also why today we had, I would say, first quarter, first half of the year, we had a miss of around $400, $400 million globally, which I think we can reverse on the second half. Not on the petrochemicals, but my refining margins, as I said, are better. Diesel -- driving season, so $6 billion by the end.

這就是重點。所以這也是為什麼今天我們會說，今年第一季度，也就是上半年，我們在全球範圍內虧損了大約 4 億美元，但我認為我們可以在下半年扭轉這一局面。雖然不是石化產品，但正如我所說，我的煉油利潤率更高。柴油——駕駛季節，因此到年底將達到 60 億美元。

Lucas Herrmann, BNP. Please go ahead.

法國巴黎銀行的盧卡斯·赫爾曼。請繼續。

Yeah, thanks very much.

是的，非常感謝。

Two, if I might. One was just a follow-on. Patrick, just going back to Mozambique, you talked about trying to ensure alignment between yourself and the government. I wonder whether you can make any comments on where the misalignment lies. And secondly, staying with chemicals, sorry, it's an asset-specific question or a business-specific question, but Hutchison, just wondered how that asset has been performing and to what extent you feel that that business continues to lie easily within Total's portfolio, given the way that you've been pushing and directing the business. Thanks vey much.

如果可以的話，我說兩個。一個只是後續。派崔克，回到莫三比克，您談到努力確保您與政府保持一致。我不知道您是否能評論一下這種錯位究竟在哪裡。其次，繼續談論化學品，抱歉，這是一個針對特定資產或特定業務的問題，但哈奇森只是想知道該資產的表現如何，以及考慮到您一直推動和指導業務的方式，您認為該業務在多大程度上可以繼續輕鬆地納入道達爾的產品組合中。非常感謝。

No, Mozambique, I think I made comments.

不，莫三比克，我想我已經發表了評論。

Don't misunderstand it negatively what I said. I made a positive comment, which is to start up a lot, to restart a project, we need a strong alignment and we are working on a strong alignment. So don't try to interpret my words. It's just that we are working on it. We speak about large projects, 20 billion. So we need to be sure. And again, we have been obliged to stop, to restart. I need to have all the strong alignment between parties, security, everything. I would say it's important. And we are working on it. And again, summer, I said summer, so summer ends September 19.

請不要對我所說的話產生負面誤解。我做出了正面的評價，那就是要啟動很多項目，重新啟動一個項目，我們需要強而有力的協調，而且我們正在努力實現強而有力的協調。所以不要試圖解釋我的話。我們正在努力。我們談論的是大型項目，200億。所以我們需要確定。我們又一次被迫停下來，然後重新開始。我需要各方之間、安全以及所有方面都保持強有力的協調。我想說這很重要。我們正在努力。再說一次，夏天，我說的是夏天，所以夏天將在 9 月 19 日結束。

So give me time. Okay. Chemicals, no. I mean, again, I think in the chemical business, we have some strong assets, which I would say are the ones which are fundamentally on cheap-fit stock. Cheap-fit stock. And the ones which are historically on NAFTA, which are not so competitive. Most of the European assets are on NAFTA, and the domestic market in Europe is not growing for polymers. It's more -- the global, there is no big growth in Europe, and that's the point.

所以給我時間。好的。化學品，沒有。我的意思是，我認為在化學產業，我們擁有一些強大的資產，我想說這些資產從根本上來說都是便宜的股票。廉價庫存。而那些歷史上加入北美自由貿易協定的國家，競爭力就沒那麼強。歐洲大部分資產都集中在北美自由貿易協定上，而歐洲國內聚合物市場並未成長。更重要的是——從全球來看，歐洲並沒有出現大幅的成長，這就是問題所在。

So, by the way, should it stay within the TTE portfolio, there is an integration between refinery and crackers which works. It works if we have an integrated platform. But why did we stop, decided to shut down one cracker in Anwerp? It was not integrated at all in our portfolio. We had a cracker, and all the ethylene was in fact sold to ExxonMobil, which was making polymers. ExxonMobil decided to shut down their own polymer plant, so no more integration. I will not keep alive and running a cracker with ethylene with no outcome.

因此，順便說一句，如果它留在 TTE 產品組合中，那麼煉油廠和裂解廠之間的整合是可行的。如果我們有一個整合平台，它就會起作用。但是我們為什麼要停下來，決定關閉安特衛普的一家裂解廠呢？它根本沒有融入我們的投資組合中。我們有一個裂解裝置，實際上所有的乙烯都賣給了生產聚合物的埃克森美孚。埃克森美孚決定關閉自己的聚合物工廠，因此不再整合。我不會繼續運行一個沒有結果的乙烯裂解裝置。

So integration is key. It's another demonstration. It's true on the chain. So as long as we have some integration, it works. Then it's better to make, again, to produce these type of polymers in Saudi Arabia or in Qatar with cheap feedstock than with NAFTA, which is more expensive in Europe. So, by the way, maybe you have an idea to whom I could deliver, but I'm afraid that you never make a good business when you sell at a low cycle. You prefer to buy at a low cycle. But I will not buy assets in chemicals. Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid.

因此整合是關鍵。這是另一次示威。鏈上確實如此。所以只要我們進行一些整合，它就會起作用。那麼，最好還是在沙烏地阿拉伯或卡達用廉價的原料生產這類聚合物，而不是在北美自由貿易區生產，因為歐洲的原料成本更高。所以，順便說一句，也許你知道我可以向誰交付，但我擔心在低週期銷售時你永遠不會做成好生意。您更願意在低週期時購買。但我不會買化學品資產。別怕。別怕。

Look, there is no message. I'm not there. No, I think it's part of the -- As long as they are integrated to the refineries and strong refineries, it's okay. Again, when we have weaker assets, we take a decision. And on Antwerp, it has been possible, and we accelerated the decision, by the way, because at the same time, the refinery is doing well. So translating some people, we have a lot of more and more people going in pensions in Antwerp because of retirement age. And so we moved people from the cracker to refinery. So it was a good way to manage this shutdown. So that's where we are.

瞧，沒有消息。我不在那裡。不，我認為這是其中的一部分——只要它們與煉油廠和強大的煉油廠整合在一起，就可以了。再次，當我們的資產較弱時，我們會做出決定。在安特衛普，這已經成為可能，順便說一句，我們加快了這個決定，因為與此同時，煉油廠的運作狀況良好。因此，翻譯一些人，由於退休年齡，我們在安特衛普有越來越多的人領取退休金。因此我們將人員從裂解廠調到了煉油廠。所以這是管理這次關閉的好方法。這就是我們現在的狀況。

Sorry, Patrick, the question was more on Hutchinson itself. (multiple speakers)

抱歉，派崔克，問題更多的是關於哈欽森本身。（多位發言者）

Hutchinson -- you should ask the question clearly. Hutchinson is not a chemical business it's a manufacturing business and by the way Hutchinson performance is very good yeah and the other side of it was to what extent and it still fits very comfortably within your portfolio, it's I don't spend much time I can tell you one hour per quarter okay.

哈欽森——你應該把問題問清楚。哈欽森不是化學企業，而是製造企業，順便說一下，哈欽森的表現非常好，是的，另一方面是它在多大程度上仍然非常適合你的投資組合，我不會花太多時間，我可以告訴你每季一個小時，好嗎。

For a good business, that's fine. But if you find a good buyer, no, no, no joke. Honestly, it's a company which works well. There is no problem. I have other more interesting, I would say, M&A to do for the company, for the future portfolio of the company in oil and gas or in integrated power, not to spend too much time and to have issues or worries about this type of -- It works well, so I'm comfortable. That's where we are. I have better ideas for the future of TotalEnergies, and no problem with it being in our portfolio. Thank you.

對於一門好生意來說，這很好。但如果你找到一個好的買家，那就不是開玩笑了。說實話，這是一家運作良好的公司。沒有問題。我還有其他更有趣的併購要為公司做，為公司在石油和天然氣或綜合電力領域的未來投資組合做，不要花太多時間，也不要對這類問題或擔憂——它運作良好，所以我很放心。這就是我們現在的情況。我對 TotalEnergies 的未來有更好的想法，並且將其納入我們的投資組合沒有任何問題。謝謝。

Kim Fustier, HSBC.

匯豐銀行的 Kim Fustier。

Hi, good afternoon, and thank you for taking my questions.

大家好，下午好，感謝您回答我的問題。

I had two, please, on the upstream. The first one is on your portfolio activity. You've been very active in recent months, and you've done a lot of deals to replenish your upstream and energy portfolio for the post-2030 time frame. I'm thinking of deals like Algeria, Gulf of Mexico, Malaysia. I just wondered if that signaled a change in your view fundamentally on the prospect or the timing of peak oil demand. Are you effectively trying to extend your production plateau to sort of match the shape of global oil demand?

請問我有兩個在上游。第一個是關於你的投資組合活動。近幾個月來，你們一直非常活躍，並做了很多交易來補充 2030 年後上游和能源投資組合。我正在考慮阿爾及利亞、墨西哥灣、馬來西亞等交易。我只是想知道這是否標誌著您對石油需求高峰的前景或時間的看法發生了根本性的變化。您是否正在有效地嘗試延長生產平台期以適應全球石油需求的情況？

My second question is on disposals. Some of the upstream disposals that you've announced weren't necessarily expected, thinking of Bongo or Argentino Shale. Are these opportunistic deals whereby you're sort of open to incoming bids, or are disposals increasingly an important part of your cash flow cycle as a way of maybe generating cash to support your balance sheet? Thanks.

我的第二個問題是關於處置的。您宣布的一些上游處置並不一定是預期的，例如 Bongo 或 Argentino Shale。這些交易是否是機會性交易，即您對即將到來的投標持開放態度，或者處置是否越來越成為您現金流週期的重要組成部分，作為一種可能產生現金來支持您的資產負債表的方式？謝謝。

Okay. A very interesting question, Kim, to both of them.

好的。Kim，對他們兩個來說，這是一個非常有趣的問題。

Okay, in an oil and gas company and an energy company, and oil and gas in particular, you have a natural decline. One of the objectives of the management is to think long-term and to not -- It's not because we have a very large portfolio of opportunities between today and 2030, but life does not end in 2030.

好的，在石油和天然氣公司以及能源公司，尤其是石油和天然氣公司，會出現自然衰退。管理階層的目標之一是進行長遠思考，而不是——這並不是因為我們在今天到 2030 年之間擁有大量的機會，而是生命不會在 2030 年結束。

So we must continue. And I think for the time being, it doesn't matter. You know the story, peak oil, peak blah, blah. I don't know, peak oil or peak demand or peak of price or duty. It's clear. We have one way to look to opportunities. If it's first quarter, second quarter, which means less than $20 per barrel, CapEx plus OpEx, low break even, less than $30 per barrel, I'm happy to continue to provide this type of opportunity to the portfolio of TotalEnergies for the future because these opportunities will be profitable even during the 2030 plus, even if you have a beginning of a decline of oil demand It's possible.

所以我們必須繼續下去。我認為就目前而言，這並不重要。你知道這個故事，石油峰值，峰值等等。我不知道是石油高峰、需求高峰、價格高峰還是關稅高峰。天氣晴朗。我們有一種方法可以尋找機會。如果是第一季或第二季度，這意味著每桶不到 20 美元，資本支出加上營運支出，低盈虧平衡點，每桶不到 30 美元，我很樂意繼續為 TotalEnergies 未來的投資組合提供這種機會，因為這些機會即使在 2030 年以後也會帶來盈利，即使石油需求開始下降，這也是可能的。

I don't say no. So the protection that I bring to our shareholders is we are first, second quarter assets, and that means that we can continue to allocate capital to these assets because they will make money even if we decline overall price. Decline of demand, by the way, decline of demand does not mean necessarily decline of overall price. People have Because if everybody anticipates a decline of demand, you have less projects. So it's good to have some projects just to be there and to capture these good opportunities.

我不說不。因此，我為股東提供的保護是，我們是第一季、第二季的資產，這意味著我們可以繼續向這些資產分配資金，因為即使我們降低整體價格，它們也會賺錢。需求下降，順便說一下，需求下降並不一定意味著整體價格下降。人們有，因為如果每個人都預期需求下降，那麼專案就會減少。因此，開展一些專案並抓住這些好機會是件好事。

So yes, we continue to work. By the way, most of what we have done, it's not so much oil in what we have announced. It's more gas, in particular in Malaysia. The Malaysia story, we will come back on it. Some of you were probably surprised when we acquired Sapporo OMV last year. Why do we build this position? And now you have this follow-up. We are very happy about the last deal we've done with Petronas, which is 12 blocks, not only explorations, because in the 12 blocks, there is a DRO, a Discovered Resource Opportunity, of 340 CF, which we will develop.

是的，我們會繼續工作。順便說一句，我們所宣布的大部分措施與石油關係並不大。天然氣需求量較大，尤其是在馬來西亞。關於馬來西亞的故事，我們以後還會再討論。當我們去年收購札幌 OMV 時，有些人可能會感到驚訝。我們為什麼要設立這個職位？現在你有了這個後續行動。我們對與馬來西亞國家石油公司達成的最後一項交易感到非常高興，這 12 個區塊不僅僅是勘探，因為在這 12 個區塊中，有一個 DRO，即已發現的資源機會，儲量為 340 立方英尺，我們將對其進行開發。

So it's giving, I can tell you, a good additional value to the fact that we have acquired this position. These type of things are very logic. It ends gas. Gas in Asia, honestly, there is a bigger demand. So it's good to continue. Divestments, no, I think it's very consistent about divestments. We told you we have a very broad portfolio. Some people even think we have too many opportunities, but I prefer to have a lot of opportunities and then to arbitrate.

因此，我可以告訴你，我們獲得這個職位的事實具有很好的附加價值。這些事情非常合乎邏輯。它終止了氣體。說實話，亞洲對天然氣的需求更大。所以繼續下去是好事。撤資，不，我認為撤資是非常一致的。我們告訴過您，我們擁有非常廣泛的產品組合。有些人甚至認為我們的機會太多了，但我寧願先有很多機會，然後再去仲裁。

Of course, look, these two opportunities, which were non-operated by us with minor share, why allocating capital to -- even if it's a project, I don't consider the project is not good. I just say, We prefer to allocate capital to larger, to Suriname and to Block 53 to expand Suriname than putting some millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars to finance a 12.5% share in Banga.

當然，你看，這兩個機會，我們都沒有去經營，只佔很小的份額，為什麼要分配資金給——即使它是一個項目，我也不認為這個項目不好。我只是想說，我們寧願將資金分配給更大的蘇利南和第 53 區塊以擴大蘇利南，而不是投入數百萬美元、數億美元來融資 Banga 12.5% 的股份。

So it just makes very sense. And we have a huge portfolio in Brazil, CEPIATU, ATAPUTU, all that, LAPA extension. So it's a matter of managing and to keep the discipline, I think, of the CapEx. If I keep everything, and so I prefer to arbitrate the non-operated assets, which, by the way, in both cases have a higher cost than $20 per barrel, so are not completely fitting with our metrics, that's quite logic to divest them and to find a buyer, which in both cases, by the way, is the operator. So it makes a lot of sense, and I think it's part of what we have to do for keeping care of the allocation of capital for our shareholders.

所以這非常有意義。我們在巴西擁有龐大的投資組合，包括 CEPIATU、ATAPUTU 以及 LAPA 擴展。因此，我認為，這是一個管理和維持資本支出紀律的問題。如果我保留所有資產，那麼我更願意對非營運資產進行仲裁，順便說一句，在這兩種情況下，這些資產的成本都高於每桶 20 美元，因此不完全符合我們的指標，剝離這些資產並找到買家是合乎邏輯的，順便說一句，在這兩種情況下，買家都是運營商。所以這很有意義，我認為這是我們必須為股東關注的資本分配的一部分。

Alistair Syme, Citi.

花旗銀行的阿利斯泰爾·賽姆 (Alistair Syme)。

Hi, Patrick. Just one question on biofuels. My observation, maybe I'm wrong, but European countries seem to be quite slow to legislate on Red 3. Do you sense in your discussions that there's any political debate about the cost of biofuels, given that renewable diesel and SAF are still three times the cost of the fuels they're meant to be replacing?

你好，派崔克。關於生物燃料只有一個問題。我的觀察可能是錯的，但歐洲國家在紅 3 立法方面似乎進展相當緩慢。鑑於再生柴油和 SAF 的成本仍然是它們要替代的燃料的三倍，您在討論中是否感覺到存在有關生物燃料成本的政治爭論？

On the biofuels, no, I see most debate about what is around hydrogen and all these type of molecules. On biofuels, I don't think there is a -- In fact, the biofuel business is more hit today by different elements. In particular, on the sustainable aviation fuels, there was a new regulation which was issued in summer '24, which allowed to make co-processing in our refineries.

關於生物燃料，不，我看到大多數爭論都是關於氫和所有這些類型的分子。關於生物燃料，我認為沒有——事實上，如今生物燃料業務受到不同因素的打擊更大。特別是關於永續航空燃料，24 年夏天頒布了一項新法規，允許在我們的煉油廠進行共同處理。

We co-process some used cook oil or some HVO that we produce in biorefineries to make sustainable aviation fuels. Of course, the cost, when you co-process in an existing flow, the marginal cost is almost nil, I would say. So that clearly has changed some. And I think some countries begin to think, what is the share we want to allocate to that compared to, I would say, the pure biofuels products?

我們共同處理一些廢棄的食用油或生物精煉廠生產的一些 HVO，以製造可持續航空燃料。當然，我想說，當你在現有流程中進行共同處理時，邊際成本幾乎為零。顯然情況已經發生了一些變化。我認為有些國家開始思考，與純生物燃料產品相比，我們想要分配的份額是多少？

Of course, it's very important for companies like us when we invest in biorefineries. I'm also a coprocessor, so I'm both. And that we need some more clarity, because it's possible that today, because again, what happens in this debate, and airline companies are very vocal, everybody likes Always in Energy. They want the cheapest possible product. They want a low-carbon product, but the cheapest one. If it's cheaper to make it by coprocessing than making as a transformation in a biorefinery, they will favor the first line.

當然，對於我們這樣的公司來說，投資生物煉製廠非常重要。我也是協處理器，所以兩者都是。我們需要更清晰的認識，因為今天，因為再次，在這場辯論中發生的事情，航空公司非常直言不諱，每個人都喜歡 Always in Energy。他們想要盡可能便宜的產品。他們想要低碳產品，但要最便宜的產品。如果透過協同處理來生產比在生物精煉廠進行轉換更便宜，他們就會青睞第一條生產線。

And so for us, it's really for me. So that's true. In our plan, we have done Lamed. We have done Grand Prix. We are thinking to a third one. For the time being, we have postponed it because we said to the team, look, there is maybe a chance we are in this market. And let's put, because honestly, to make more co-processing within TotalEnergies, it requires two tens of millions. I mean, we are not speaking about hundreds. It's less than 50 million.

所以對我們來說，對我來說，這真的是一件好事。確實如此。在我們的計劃中，我們已經完成了Lamed。我們已經完成了大獎賽。我們正在考慮第三個。目前，我們推遲了這項計劃，因為我們對團隊說，看，我們也許有機會進入這個市場。老實說，為了在 TotalEnergies 中進行更多的協同處理，需要兩千萬。我的意思是，我們談論的並不是數百人。不到5000萬。

We could produce more. So this is what we will do. So this is slow to regulate. There are new elements of regulation. The lesson is that this biofuel market is a regulated market. These molecules are regulated, heavily regulated. And all that, and it's a little true what you said, Red Free is a European directive, but then each country begins to make its mix. So we have to navigate for that and not to anticipate too much on what could be the regulations. But then we could make some misallocation of capacity.

我們可以生產更多。這就是我們要做的。因此，監管起來很慢。監管方面出現了新的內容。教訓是，生物燃料市場是一個受監管的市場。這些分子受到調控，嚴格調控。所有這些，以及您所說的，都有一定的道理，Red Free 是歐洲的指令，但每個國家都開始製定自己的混合方案。因此，我們必須為此做好準備，不要對法規做出過多的預期。但這樣一來，我們可能會出現產能分配不合理的情況。

So this is where we are. But the biofuels, I see, I think we need to integrate these. There are some technological disruptions, in fact, which is what happened. Because when I was asking to my refiners, why don't we co-process five years ago, they were speaking about corrosion difficulties. In fact, we make some tests. There is no real corrosion, et cetera. So things are moving. Things are moving in all these new low-carbon fuels. Great, thank you.

這就是我們現在的處境。但我認為我們需要將生物燃料整合起來。事實上，確實存在一些技術中斷。因為當我五年前詢問我的煉油廠為什麼我們不進行聯合處理時，他們談到了腐蝕問題。事實上，我們做了一些測試。沒有真正的腐蝕等等。事情正在進展。所有這些新型低碳燃料都在不斷發展。太好了，謝謝。

Henri Patricot, UBS.

瑞銀集團的亨利·帕特里科特（Henri Patricot）。

Yes, I want to thank you for the update. Just one topic left, which is Namibia. I was hoping you could give us an update on Venus, the latest online, and also whether the project could change if you get involved in the blocks next door with the demo pain discovery. Thank you.

是的，我想感謝您的更新。只剩下一個話題，就是納米比亞。我希望您能向我們提供有關 Venus 的最新情況、最新在線情況，以及如果您參與到隔壁的街區的演示痛苦發現中，該項目是否會發生變化。謝謝。

Next door is a little far away. Yeah, Namibia. I told you that I visited, I don't know, I mentioned that I visited Namibia. I met the new authorities. It's a new government and very willing, of course, to develop the oil industry. We are the first one there with a project. So we have, of course, to tackle some issues with them. I received a letter asking us to engage in the discussion. So I think there have been a team set on the Namibian side reporting directly to the president of Namibia, which was a decision.

隔壁稍微遠一點。是的，納米比亞。我告訴過你我去過，我不知道，我提到我去過納米比亞。我見到了新的權威人士。這是一個新政府，當然非常願意發展石油工業。我們是第一個帶著專案去那裡的人。因此，我們當然必須解決他們的一些問題。我收到一封信，要求我們參與討論。因此我認為納米比亞方面已經成立了一個團隊，直接向納米比亞總統匯報，這是一個決定。

And on our side, we are ready. So I think it's a matter of we are working. But again, I think we need to do it a little like Mozambique. You have a new country to oil industry. So it's important to ensure the alignment, the good understanding. I don't want to have a We're investing and then discovering a problem because the Namibian authorities would have the feeling that they did not understand all the projects. It's better to take time at the beginning, even if, of course, we are ready. They are very motivated. They would like the oil to be produced before the end of 2019. That means that we should take decisions this year before the end of 2025 if we want to meet the target. This is what we explained to them. And then we'll do it. We are working with them. I cannot tell you more.

而我們這邊，已經做好準備了。所以我認為這是我們正在努力的事情。但我再次認為我們需要採取一些類似莫三比克的做法。你們國家有一個新的石油工業。因此，確保一致性和良好的理解非常重要。我不想出現這樣的情況：我們在投資後才發現問題，因為納米比亞當局會覺得他們不了解所有的項目。最好一開始就花點時間，當然，即使我們已經準備好了。他們非常有動力。他們希望在 2019 年底前生產出石油。這意味著如果我們想要實現這一目標，我們就應該在今年、2025年底前做出決定。這就是我們向他們解釋的。然後我們就這麼做。我們正在與他們合作。我無法告訴你更多。

On the opportunities next door, again, it's not really next door. It's a little far away. We'll see. I mean, we'll see what will happen. We'll see what will happen in this business. But again, I'll let the company working on it. Then what we do, by the way, on our side, Namibia, for me, the next news will be South Africa. Because we have also some wealth to be drilled. We have some attractive license just across the border. And we have, I think, two or three prospects. And we are working in South Africa. The process to get all the authorization is quite a little long. But we hope to begin to drill South Africa targets in '26, from '26. So that's where that's also linked to this one.

關於隔壁的機會，再說一遍，它其實不是隔壁的。稍微有點遠。我們將拭目以待。我的意思是，我們看看會發生什麼。我們將拭目以待這樁生意將會發生什麼事。但我還是會讓公司來處理這件事。順便說一下，在我們這邊，納米比亞，對我來說，下一個新聞將是南非。因為我們也有一些財富可以挖掘。我們在邊境對面有一些很有吸引力的許可證。我認為我們有兩到三個潛在客戶。我們正在南非工作。獲得所有授權的過程相當漫長。但我們希望從26年開始鑽探南非目標。所以這也是與此相關的。

Paul Cheng, Scotiabank.

加拿大豐業銀行的 Paul Cheng。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Hi, Patrick. Good morning or good afternoon. Two questions. First, in the US, we have a precedent that love to trace it maybe in the middle of the night and subsequently that oftentimes make a significant impact on the market condition. Let's see it. In any shape or form that impact the way how you manage your trading operation, because a lot of times the trade is going to insert an element of predictability. You can't really predict what he may or may not do at a particular moment. So how you guys would be impacted or that you say, okay, this is just part of normal operation, so I'm not going to impact by that.

你好，派崔克。早安或下午好。兩個問題。首先，在美國，我們有一個先例，喜歡在半夜追蹤它，隨後它往往會對市場狀況產生重大影響。讓我們看看。無論以何種形式，這都會影響您管理交易操作的方式，因為很多時候交易都會插入可預測的元素。你無法真正預測他在某個特定時刻會做什麼或不會做什麼。那麼你們會受到怎樣的影響，或者你們說，好吧，這只是正常運作的一部分，所以我不會受到影響。

The second question is you've been reducing your European refining and chemical operation for an obvious reason. In the long haul, do you foresee that you may totally exit from refining and chemical in Europe or that you think you ultimately are still going to have some position you just need to strengthen it. So, just how you view on those aspects in the long haul position in your portfolio.

第二個問題是，由於顯而易見的原因，你們一直在減少歐洲的煉油和化工業務。從長遠來看，您是否預見到您可能會完全退出歐洲的煉油和化學領域，或者您認為您最終仍將擁有一些地位，只是需要加強它。那麼，您如何看待投資組合中長期立場的這些面向呢？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay. I think on the first one I commented it already, it's true that traders have to be, do not like too much to see, I would say, they fundamentally try to trade around fundamentals to take position about analyzing the supply and demand and the different factors regions and the different optimizing logistics and all that. And, of course, they don't like too much to see this element of uncertainty with markets reacting very quickly to a tweet makes their position quite strange.

好的。我認為在第一個問題上我已經評論過了，交易者確實必須，不喜歡看到太多，我想說，他們從根本上試圖圍繞基本面進行交易，以分析供需和不同因素區域以及不同的優化物流等等。當然，他們不太喜歡看到這種不確定因素，市場對一則推文的反應非常迅速，這讓他們的立場變得相當奇怪。

So, yes, like Jean-Pierre is just telling me, a nice sentence is, volatility around tweets is not tradable. This is what, by the way, what's true. Volatility around trade is not tradable, and that's what our traders told us. So they told us, don't expect us to make, maybe they make very good results about the old business, the old guys.

所以，是的，就像 Jean-Pierre 剛剛告訴我的那樣，一句好話就是，推文的波動性是不可交易的。順便說一句，這是事實。貿易波動是無法交易的，這是我們的交易員告訴我們的。所以他們告訴我們，不要指望我們能做出什麼成績，也許他們能對老生意、老傢伙們做出很好的成績。

They were completely aligned with our expectations, but they told us, don't expect some time. We could expect more, but we can be reversed, and so we are obliged to be more short-term, I would say. The consequence of that is that if you want to play three, six months, you could be suddenly your position, which seems to be good, could become not in the right direction.

他們完全符合我們的期望，但他們告訴我們，不要期待一些時間。我們可以期待更多，但我們也可能遭遇逆轉，因此我想說，我們有義務採取更短期的行動。其後果是，如果你想踢三到六個月的比賽，你的處境可能會突然變得不太對勁，而你的處境原本看起來不錯。

So that's the difficulty of it. Having said that, again, they have our trust and our support, and they are, I would say, they are aware, and I trust them. They know what they can do and what is tradable and not. And so, honestly, again, the old trading of TotalEnergies is not as expected. So there is no problem.

這就是它的困難之處。話雖如此，我們還是信任他們、支持他們，我想說，他們知道這一點，而且我相信他們。他們知道自己能做什麼，什麼是可以交易的，什麼是不可以交易的。所以，老實說，TotalEnergies 的舊交易並不像預期的那樣。所以沒有問題。

So on refining, okay, look, it depends what will happen. There are two different positions, but it's linked. If Europe really goes to no more gasoline EV vehicles, light vehicles in Europe, we don't need to have refineries to produce gasoline. I'm just saying. So the question is not 2035. 2035 will be -- stop commercializing if they really stick on this position. But by 2015, I believe, there should not be a lot of gasoline cars in Europe. But I could think it will be a reality.

因此，就精煉而言，好吧，看，這取決於會發生什麼。兩個立場雖然不同，但又互相連結。如果歐洲真的不再使用汽油電動車和輕型車，那麼在歐洲我們就不需要煉油廠來生產汽油。我只是說說而已。所以問題不在於 2035 年。 2035 年將是──如果他們真的堅持這個立場，就會停止商業化。但到2015年，我相信歐洲的汽油車就不會很多了。但我認為這將成為現實。

Then, of course, we have to think to this perspective. It's still a long way, but we have to think to that. We have some very strong assets in Europe. So we see the stronger ones are well-known. It's AMVERP in particular. It's a very strong asset with integration. So the first quarter assets will survive.

那麼，當然，我們必須從這個角度來思考。雖然路還很長，但我們必須考慮這一點。我們在歐洲擁有一些非常強大的資產。所以我們看到實力較強的人都是知名的。特別是 AMVERP。這是一項具有整合能力的非常強大的資產。所以第一季的資產將會存活下來。

The third quarter, we need to think of their future. Their future might be to become bio refineries, like we've done for two of them or their future for a cracker, if we can do it, of shutting down the cracker in Antwerp, because in Antwerp we are able to, we have taken the decision because we didn't see how to maintain an isolated cracker in this context.

第三季度，我們需要考慮他們的未來。它們的未來可能是成為生物煉油廠，就像我們為其中兩個所做的那樣，或者它們的未來是成為裂解裝置，如果我們可以做到的話，關閉安特衛普的裂解裝置，因為在安特衛普我們能夠做到，我們已經做出了決定，因為我們不知道在這種情況下如何維持一個孤立的裂解裝置。

So, I mean, will we keep the position? I think this position is a dynamic position which will evolve according to the market, which is declining. Strengthen it. Strengthening Antwerp, maybe, because it could be one of the last refineries in Europe. We cannot spend too much money on this one. And that's one difficulty, is that refineries, if you want to maintain good availability of refineries with a high level of safety, which for us is fundamental, requires to have a maintenance CapEx, which is quite burning some cash. So all that is better to have.

那麼，我的意思是，我們會保留這個職位嗎？我認為這個職位是一個動態職位，它將隨著市場衰退而發展。加強它。或許可以加強安特衛普，因為它可能是歐洲最後的煉油廠之一。我們不能在這上面花太多的錢。其中一個困難是，如果要維持煉油廠的良好可用性和高水準的安全性（這對我們來說是根本），就需要有維護資本支出，這會消耗相當多的現金。所以擁有這些會更好。

What we monitor there, I will tell you, is what is the global net cash position on refining in Europe. And of course, if we begin to have a net cash negative, then we have to be tougher on these ones. We know the issue. We are in Europe. It's part as well. That's why if you look to the narrative around energy in Europe, it's more and more about energy security. And refineries are part of the energy security.

我要告訴你們的是，我們監測的是歐洲煉油的全球淨現金狀況。當然，如果我們開始出現淨現金負值，那麼我們就必須對這些採取更嚴格的措施。我們知道這個問題。我們在歐洲。這也是一部分。這就是為什麼如果你看看歐洲的能源敘述，你會發現它越來越多地與能源安全有關。煉油廠是能源安全的一部分。

You've seen the debate in California recently, where California people are very afraid not to have enough refineries. It's quite funny because they have made regulations to shut down all of them. The UK as well, you've seen that two refineries have been announced to be shut down.

您已經看到了最近在加州的爭論，加州的人們非常擔心沒有足夠的煉油廠。這很有趣，因為他們已經制定了規定來關閉所有這些機構。英國也是一樣，你已經看到有兩家煉油廠宣布關閉。

So that's where, by the way, governments will be in an interesting debate with them. Because on one side, they give us a signal that they don't need gasoline by a certain distance. And on the other side, some people will say, yes, but we need these tools just in case in the future. So I think we have -- So our objective is, at the end of the day, to reinforce the first quarter assets and the others to find a respectful evolution for people.

順便說一句，這就是各國政府將與他們進行有趣的辯論的地方。因為一方面，他們在一定距離內向我們發出不需要汽油的訊號。另一方面，有些人會說，是的，但我們需要這些工具以防萬一。所以我認為我們已經——所以我們的目標最終是加強第一季的資產和其他資產，為人們找到一個值得尊重的演變。

Jean-Luc Romain, CIC Market Solutions.

Jean-Luc Romain，CIC Market Solutions。

Thank you for taking my questions.

感謝您回答我的問題。

It relates to the asset sales you plan in the second half in integrated power. Do you believe it will put back the Roche of this division back within your 10%, 12% target? That's the first question. The second is about VSB. Out of the portfolio of VSB, how much went into the under-construction portfolio? tables and how much went into the under development project out of about i think 18 megawatts of projects that were mentioned in the press release of the acquisition okay

這與您計劃在下半年進行的綜合電力資產出售有關。您是否相信它會使該部門的羅氏重回您的 10% 或 12% 目標範圍內？這是第一個問題。第二個是關於VSB。在 VSB 的投資組合中，有多少是用於在建投資組合？表格，以及在收購新聞稿中提到的大約 18 兆瓦項目中，有多少投入正在開發的項目，好的

The first one, no, I mean, Jean-Luc, it is reasonable. We announced that we want to be at 12% by 2028, 2030. So we will not reach 12% because of the divestment of the single life. No, it takes more time. We are still in a growing mood. So our capital employees are still growing, which is normal. I accept it. So today we are more in the 9%, 10% range, at least for a year. The 12% will require at a certain point to have enough capacity to stabilize all that and to continue to develop the integration, which is done.

第一個，不，我的意思是，讓·呂克，這是合理的。我們宣布，我們希望在 2028 年、2030 年達到 12%。因此我們不會因為單身生活的剝離而達到12%的水平。不，這需要更多時間。我們仍處於成長的情緒中。所以我們的資本員工仍在成長，這是正常的。我接受。因此，今天我們的成長率至少在一年內處於 9% 至 10% 的範圍內。12% 需要在某個時候擁有足夠的能力來穩定所有這一切並繼續發展整合，這已經完成了。

So, no, I will be cautious this year. We are still, let's say, targeting the 10%, 9 to 10. That's what we want, and this is where it will go, and I'm optimistic about that. But I don't expect 12% in 2025. It's not on the roadmap for my integrated forward teams. They have a lot of challenges in front of them. I don't want to add on this one. So that one maybe I disappoint, but it's more pragmatic.

所以，不，今年我會謹慎行事。我們仍然以 10% 為目標，即 9 到 10。這就是我們想要的，這就是它的發展方向，我對此感到樂觀。但我預計 2025 年不會達到 12%。這不在我的綜合前鋒團隊的路線圖上。他們面前有很多挑戰。我不想添加這個。所以那個可能令我失望，但它更務實。

On VSV, I'm looking to my friends to give me a -- what is installed? There was 500 megawatts installed, but the question you are asking is what is under construction, and what is more in development? I mean, I know that we have approved recently three projects for PSV, so in the executive committee, they came -- in less than two months. In less than two months, they came to us to approve three projects, so I'm quite -- I think -- I don't have the answer to your question, Jean-Luc, sorry, but I think Renaud and his team will come back to you. I mean, I've seen the figure, but I don't want to make a mistake there, to give you a wrong figure.

在 VSV 上，我希望我的朋友能給我一個——安裝了什麼？已安裝了 500 兆瓦，但您要問的問題是哪些正在建設中，哪些正在開發中？我的意思是，我知道我們最近批准了 PSV 的三個項目，所以在執行委員會中，他們在不到兩個月的時間內就來了。在不到兩個月的時間裡，他們來找我們批准了三個項目，所以我很——我認為——我不知道你的問題的答案，讓-呂克，對不起，但我認為雷諾和他的團隊會回复你。我的意思是，我已經看到了這個數字，但我不想犯錯，給你一個錯誤的數字。

I think, I will come back to you. Again, we have a, just to demonstrate that we have approved around two free projects recently, which were representing globally, I think, something like 600, 700 megawatts, and there is more to come. So, yeah, what we plan to develop, yeah, but I'm not sure.

我想，我會回到你身邊。再次，我們只是為了證明我們最近批准了大約兩個免費項目，我認為這些項目在全球範圍內代表著大約 600 到 700 兆瓦，而且未來還會有更多。所以，是的，我們計劃開發什麼，是的，但我不確定。

Okay. In the long term, but I don't know what it is. In the long term plan, that's -- Yeah, we could see something like, no, we will come back to you. I think it's around three gigawatts, but I will come back to you. I prefer to give you a wrong information on this one.

好的。從長遠來看，但我不知道它是什麼。從長期計劃來看，那是——是的，我們可以看到類似的情況，不，我們會回到你身邊。我認為大約是三千兆瓦，但我會再告訴你。我更願意就此給你錯誤的資訊。

Thank you very much. Very clear.

非常感謝。非常清楚。

Jason Gabelman, TD Cowen.

傑森·加貝爾曼（Jason Gabelman），TD Cowen。

Yeah, hey, thanks for taking my questions. I wanted to ask on integrated power in the US specifically. Given some of the changes to the tax credits in the recent tax regulation that was passed, does that change your view on the pace of development in integrated power in the US, the returns and the ability to farm down assets there?

是的，嘿，謝謝你回答我的問題。我想具體詢問一下美國的綜合電力狀況。鑑於最近通過的稅收法規中對稅收抵免的一些變化，這是否會改變您對美國綜合電力發展速度、回報和資產處置能力的看法？

I will tell you, in fact, what I observed on the farm land in the country is because there is a fear of scarcity of this type of assets. financial investors, which are, in fact, buying this farm down, are even more aggressive on the valuation. What is more piloting the farm down is more the interest rate, to be honest. But today, the scarcity of assets, or the risk of scarcity, there is some appetite. There is no doubt. And as I said, we are farming down 1.5 gigawatts, and we receive very -- good offers in line with our expectations, then don't misinterpret what has been the big, beautiful bill for renewables. In fact, when you look at the end of the process, tax credit, either PTC or FTC, that did not really change, providing that the project will be put into construction before mid-'26, or '27, mid-'26, I think. And so we are working on that, what we call safe harboring. And we, of course, the condition of safe harboring are important.

我告訴你，事實上，我觀察到該國農田的情況是因為人們擔心這類資產的稀缺性。實際上，正在購買這些農場的金融投資者在估值方面更加積極。說實話，試辦農場更多的是降低利率。但今天，資產的稀缺性，或者說稀缺性的風險，還是有一定的胃口的。毫無疑問。正如我所說，我們的發電量減少了 1.5 千兆瓦，我們收到了非常好的報價，符合我們的預期，那麼就不要誤解可再生能源的巨大而美麗的賬單。事實上，當你看到流程結束時，稅收抵免（PTC 或 FTC）並沒有真正改變，前提是該計畫將在 26 年中期、27 年或 26 年中期之前投入建設。所以我們正在致力於我們所說的安全港。當然，安全庇護的條件對我們來說很重要。

But when we look to our portfolio of projects, it's for us. When we look to what we were planning to develop between today and 2029, 2030, there is not much impact on all that. If we can safe harbor, of course, correctly and according to the rules. But I think we will come back to you later on this one as well, end of September. But the ITC and PTC quantum did not change, in fact. And the capacity to -- I would say, how do we say that, migrate between, the market for ITC, PTCs continue to remain. What has been, the tax partnership and all that remains.

但當我們審視我們的項目組合時，它對我們來說是合適的。當我們展望從現在到 2029 年、2030 年期間我們計劃發展什麼時，我們發現這一切都沒有受到太大的影響。如果我們能夠安全港，當然，要正確且按照規則行事。但我想我們稍後也會再回來找你討論這個問題，也就是九月底。但事實上，ITC 和 PTC 金額並沒有改變。而能力 — — 我想說的是，我們怎麼說呢，在 ITC 和 PTC 市場之間進行遷移，將繼續存在。過去的稅務合作關係以及剩下的一切。

So most of the -- it's just a matter that it will elapse in time. But with what has been voted in the Senate, it's possible to use that. It could have some impact. One part, which is more impacting, in fact, for me, these businesses, is more the tariff, as I said before. Because the tariff, you don't have today in the US enough manufacturing capacity to make all the projects. This tariff, it depends, and other tariffs are not the same for all the countries. We are, I would say, in a shadow today. We don't know.

所以大多數——這只是一個會隨著時間流逝而過去的事。但根據參議院的投票結果，這是有可能實現的。它可能會產生一些影響。事實上，對我而言，對這些企業影響更大的部分是關稅，正如我之前所說。由於關稅，美國目前沒有足夠的製造能力來完成所有項目。這個關稅要視情況而定，其他關稅對所有國家來說都是不一樣的。我想說，我們今天正處於陰影之中。我們不知道。

So, of course, it could have an impact on us on diversifying our supply chains, finding new countries. I know that we stopped one project in April with a provider coming from China. We managed to replace it with a provider from Vietnam. And by the way, this Vietnamese company wants to build a manufacturing plant in the US So you will see some ways to, I mean, this dynamic will come. Finally, building a solar plant, manufacturing plant. A manufacturing plant for solar is not so complex, in fact. But we see some trends. So, again, I don't tell you there will not be a form of slowdown, but this will not be -- And again, for us, it's value over volume.

因此，當然，這可能會對我們多樣化我們的供應鏈、尋找新的國家產生影響。我知道我們在四月停止了一個與中國供應商合作的專案。我們設法將其替換為來自越南的供應商。順便說一句，這家越南公司想在美國建立製造廠，所以你會看到一些方法，我的意思是，這種動態將會出現。最後，建造一座太陽能工廠、製造工廠。事實上，太陽能製造工廠並沒有那麼複雜。但我們看到了一些趨勢。所以，我再說一遍，我不是說不會出現某種形式的放緩，但這不會發生——對我們來說，價值比數量更重要。

Let's be clear. I've been very clear with my teams. Okay, you want to grow, but we will grow at a pace which will be allowed by the global framework. And so we need to digest all this information. But the last news I've got, now that the bill has been enacted, are more positive than what we thought. There is one segment which has completely, we put into, I would say, a sleeping mode is offshore wind.

讓我們明確一點。我已經向我的團隊講得很清楚了。好的，你想要成長，但我們將以全球框架允許的速度成長。因此我們需要消化所有這些資訊。但我得到的最新消息是，該法案現已頒布，比我們想像的更為積極。我想說，有一個領域我們已經完全進入了休眠模式，那就是離岸風電。

This is completely sleeping now. Sleeping means nobody is taking, we have reduced at the minimum any cost on this one. But integrated power is also gas-fired power plants on this one, I can tell you. We could make a lot of money by farming down part of the free 1.5 gigawatts we have acquired two years ago in Texas. At the end, we want electrons we can remove from the totaling scheme.

這下徹底睡著了。睡覺意味著沒有人被佔用，我們已將這方面的成本降至最低。但我可以告訴你，綜合電力也是燃氣發電廠。我們可以透過利用兩年前在德克薩斯州獲得的 1.5 千兆瓦免費電力的一部分來賺很多錢。最後，我們希望從總計方案中刪除電子。

So there are ways to mine to use this type of assets to get some money back. So there are good things as well in what happens in the US on the electricity side, including gas to power, which is, of course, the core as well of our business model. It's not only renewable. Our business model in particular in the US, is gas-to-power plus renewable, but gas-to-power are very important.

因此，有辦法利用這類資產來獲取一些報酬。因此，美國在電力方面也有一些很好的事情，包括天然氣發電，這當然也是我們商業模式的核心。它不僅是可再生的。我們的商業模式，特別是在美國，是氣電加再生能源，但氣電非常重要。

Yep, got it. And then my follow-up, it's probably fitting to end on a CapEx question, given all the focus on that. So it seems like to hit the organic CapEx target, CapEx needs to slow by almost a billion dollars from 2Q levels. Can you just give us some sense about where the activity is slowing down, and also if Mozambique LNG, if that moves forward, is that already in the CapEx budget, or would that be incremental?

是的，明白了。然後我的後續問題是，考慮到大家對資本支出問題的關注，以資本支出問題作為結束可能是合適的。因此，為了達到有機資本支出目標，資本支出似乎需要比第二季的水準減少近 10 億美元。您能否告訴我們哪些活動正在放緩，另外，如果莫三比克液化天然氣項目繼續推進，這是否已經包含在資本支出預算中，還是會逐漸增加？

If Mozambique LNG is moving forward, it would be externally financed, so the impact on the CapEx budget is quite limited.

如果莫三比克液化天然氣計畫持續推進，將需要外部融資，因此對資本支出預算的影響相當有限。

Got it. And just more broadly on --

知道了。更廣泛地說--

Thank you. Sorry, Jason, but I cannot give you -- I mean, I don't have all the details. No, but I mean, we know where we are going. We know why. But for example, I will tell you -- This pipeline in Uganda, we put in place a project financing in the middle of the second quarter, so it has a positive impact on the CapEx on the second part of the year. So the run rate of spending was higher on the beginning of the year than the second half. This is very pragmatic, this one. So when I told you that we will stick on the $17-17.5 billion, I repeat it, you can believe me. You know what is behind.

謝謝。抱歉，傑森，但我不能告訴你——我的意思是，我沒有全部的細節。不，但我的意思是，我們知道我們要去哪裡。我們知道為什麼。但例如，我會告訴你——烏幹達的這條管道，我們在第二季度中期安排了專案融資，因此它對今年下半年的資本支出產生了積極影響。因此，年初的支出運行率高於下半年。這個非常實用。因此，當我告訴你們我們將堅持 170 億至 175 億美元時，我再說一遍，你們可以相信我。你知道後面是什麼。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Thank you. So, I think we come to the end of the call, no?

謝謝。那麼，我想我們的通話應該結束了，不是嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Do we have another one? No? It's okay. So, thank you to all of you for all these debates and questions. Again, I think the key word of TotalEnergies, I know it's a little boring, but it's consistency. It's good stuff, so boring, but consistent. Consistent is a strategy, and again, keeping the -- The return to shareholders on the high side, so I think it's good news for shareholders.

我們還有其他嗎？不？沒關係。所以，感謝大家的辯論和提問。再說一次，我認為 TotalEnergies 的關鍵字，我知道這有點無聊，但它是一致性。這是好東西，雖然很無聊，但始終如一。保持一致是一種策略，再次強調，保持股東回報率處於較高水平，所以我認為這對股東來說是個好消息。

Okay, we are in a cyclical, we are in a commodity business. We don't control the markets, and today there is volatility from supply and demand side, but also from geopolitics, so it could be on one side and we go the other way. What I'm sure is that we manage, we have the flexibility, the agility in the company to manage all this hybrid volatility, and we are growing again. And as always, growth is delivering some additional cash flows, which is very important for the Board.

好的，我們處於週期性行業，我們從事的是商品業務。我們無法控制市場，如今市場供需雙方都存在波動，而且地緣政治因素也存在波動，因此市場可能朝著這一方向發展，而我們可能朝著另一方向發展。我確信的是，我們有能力管理，我們公司有足夠的靈活性和敏捷性來管理所有這些混合波動，而且我們正在再次成長。像往常一樣，成長帶來了一些額外的現金流，這對董事會來說非常重要。

The Board already monitored as well. Do you deliver what you said in terms of growth of productions on both sides, in integrated power and in oil and gas? And I would be happy to meet all of you again in New York on September 29. I know it's an annual one, so we will give you even more certainty about our business plans towards 2030, and I am happy to advance and enjoy to meet you there with all my executive committee. Thank you.

董事會也已進行監控。你們在綜合電力和石油天然氣產量成長方面是否實現了你們所說的目標？我很高興於9月29日在紐約再次與大家見面。我知道這是一年一度的會議，因此我們將向您更加確定我們到 2030 年的業務計劃，我很高興能夠與我的全體執行委員會成員在那裡見面。謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。