TotalEnergies SE (TTE) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, good morning, if you are connecting from the US.

如果您是從美國連線過來的，那麼下午好，早安。

Welcome to TotalEnergies 2024 results and 2025 objectives meeting.

歡迎參加 TotalEnergies 2024 年成果和 2025 年目標會議。

We are today in the city in London.

我們今天來到了倫敦。

I hope that you will appreciate that we brought the sun in London today, and you will appreciate also the view.

希望你們會欣賞我們今天把陽光帶到倫敦，也會欣賞這美麗的風景。

For the people who want to follow us live, you can connect on our website, totalenergies.com.

對於想要關注我們即時動態的人，您可以透過我們的網站 totalenergies.com 與我們聯繫。

The program today, we will start with the presentation of the 2024 results with Jean-Pierre.

今天的節目，我們將從與 Jean-Pierre 一起展示 2024 年的成果開始。

And then we will move to the outlook presentation for 2025 with Patrick.

然後我們將與帕特里克一起進行 2025 年的展望演示。

The presentation should last one hour.

演講將持續一個小時。

And then we will move to the Q&A session, where you will be, of course, able to ask all the questions you want.

然後我們將進入問答環節，當然，您可以提出任何您想問的問題。

We have, as usual, a dedicated line for the people who could not attend, and we will bring from time to time questions online.

像往常一樣，我們為無法出席的人們設立了專用熱線，並且會不時在線上解答問題。

We should be finished around 4:15, 4:30.

我們應該在 4:15 或 4:30 左右完成。

But before to start our journey today, I invite Stephane Michel, our President, Gas & Power to come on stage to launch the meeting with a sequence on safety.

但在開始今天的旅程之前，我邀請我們的天然氣和電力部門總裁 Stephane Michel 上台，並以安全為主題開始會議。

Stephane?

史蒂芬？

Thank you, Renaud.

謝謝你，雷諾。

Good afternoon, everyone.

大家下午好。

As you are aware, TotalEnergies is building an integrated power pillar.

如您所知，TotalEnergies 正在建立綜合電力支柱。

And like any other industrial activity, this new development is coming with new HSE risk.

與其他工業活動一樣，這項新發展也帶來了新的 HSE 風險。

One of them is the risk of fire and explosion, while operating our battery energy storage system or BESS.

其中之一就是在操作我們的電池儲能係統或 BESS 時存在火災和爆炸的風險。

In the industry, around 15 incidents happen every year.

該行業每年大約發生 15 起事故。

And the most serious one was in March last year in Japan, where several firefighters were injured by an explosion.

最嚴重的一次是去年3月日本的一次爆炸，造成數名消防員受傷。

Within TotalEnergies, our last incident occurred in 2023 hopefully without injuries.

在 TotalEnergies 內部，我們上一次事故發生在 2023 年，希望沒有人員傷亡。

But since then, we have worked on the design specification of batteries, and we have done so with our battery affiliate, Saft, which happened to be one of the top five battery supplier in the world.

但從那時起，我們就開始致力於電池的設計規範，我們是與我們的電池子公司Saft一起進行的，Saft恰好是世界五大電池供應商之一。

Thanks to their know-how, we've been able to include new innovative safety barrier that you can see on the slide by adding early detection of thermal runaway to prevent the fire to spread over, by adding as well water fire separation system in addition to the passive one, and by adding extra ventilation to avoid the risk of explosion.

憑藉他們的專業知識，我們能夠添加新的創新安全屏障，如幻燈片中所示，透過添加熱失控的早期檢測來防止火勢蔓延，透過在被動系統之外添加水火分離系統，並透過添加額外的通風來避免爆炸風險。

In addition, we are implementing now systematically a dedicated training for firefighters on how to fight a battery fire because it's quite specific.

此外，我們現在正在系統地對消防員進行如何撲滅電池火災的專門培訓，因為它非常具體。

Thanks to all that, we are confident that we can develop our multi-gigawatt pipe of batteries while protecting our people, of course, and by limiting as well the risk on our assets.

感謝這一切，我們有信心，我們可以開發多千兆瓦的電池管道，同時保護我們的人民，同時也限制我們資產的風險。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jean-Pierre will be on stage.

讓·皮埃爾將登台。

Okay.

好的。

On safety, sorry.

關於安全，抱歉。

That was for the battery, and that's a good transition for our result in 2024.

這是為了電池，這對我們 2024 年的業績來說是一個很好的過渡。

The first one is on the result on the TRIR.

第一個是關於TRIR的結果。

As you can see on the left side of the chart, the fact that we are continuing progressing and we are actually in the lower, if not the best of our peers in terms of comparison.

正如您在圖表左側看到的那樣，事實上我們正在不斷進步，而且與同行相比，我們的水平實際上處於較低水平，甚至是最好的。

That's one on the left part of our activity.

這是我們活動的左側部分。

And then you have the right part of our activity, where we have introduced the comparison as well on integrated power TRIR comparing our results to the one of the peers in that industry, where you can see that we have been able to progress from above 1.5 in terms of TRIR in 2020 to 0.78.

然後你就看到了我們活動的正確部分，我們還對綜合功率 TRIR 進行了比較，將我們的結果與業內同行的結果進行了比較，你可以看到，我們已經能夠從 2020 年的 1.5 以上 TRIR 進步到 0.78。

And that's today something which is very at the leading edge of what is done in that industry of integrated power that has been realized by working on the technological risk, as I've just mentioned in the previous slide, and as well working on behavioral safety with two things: one, the way we operate our facility; and second, the way we build because we have a huge exposure to construction man-hour.

這就是當今綜合電力產業所取得的最前沿成就，它是透過研究技術風險來實現的，就像我在上一張投影片中提到的那樣，同時透過兩件事研究行為安全：一是我們營運設施的方式；第二，我們的建造方式，因為我們有大量的施工工時。

That was for safety.

那是為了安全。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jean-Pierre?

讓·皮埃爾？

I should introduce in the room because you have other executive committee members so that you can identify them.

我應該在房間裡介紹，因為你們還有其他執行委員會成員，以便你們可以辨識他們。

So Nicolas is just there, Nicolas Terraz; Vincent from refining and chemicals; Bernard is next to Renaud, and we have in the back, Aurelien and Namita, which are there.

所以 Nicolas 就在那裡，Nicolas Terraz；來自煉油和化學品行業的 Vincent；伯納德 (Bernard) 站在雷諾 (Renaud) 旁邊，後面是奧雷利安 (Aurelien) 和奈米塔 (Namita)。

I think I did not forget anybody.

我想我沒有忘記任何人。

Helle is in Japan, so she's not in London, but she's probably listening to us.

Helle 在日本，所以她不在倫敦，但她可能正在聽我們說話。

So Jean-Pierre, the floor is yours now.

那麼 Jean-Pierre，現在輪到你發言了。

Thank you very much. it's a real pleasure to be here with you tonight, today to present the '24 results and the main achievement of the year.

非常感謝。今天晚上，我非常高興能在這裡與大家一起展示 24 項成果和今年的主要成就。

So as you know, our strategy, balanced and consistent strategy is anchored on two pillars.

如你所知，我們的策略，平衡而一致的策略建立在兩大支柱之上。

So oil and gas, mainly LNG on one side, and integrated power on the other side.

因此，一方面是石油和天然氣（主要是液化天然氣），另一方面是綜合電力。

We have made great progress in '24 executing this strategy and incurring free cash flow growth on both pillars, oil and gas and integrated power.

我們在執行這項策略方面取得了巨大進展，在石油天然氣和綜合電力兩個支柱上都實現了自由現金流成長。

So let's start with the high main lights of the year 2024.

那麼就讓我們從 2024 年的主要亮點開始。

On the first pillar, oil and gas, we started production at five major projects, so Mero 2 and Mero 3 in Brazil, deep offshore Brazil; Akpo West in Nigeria, Anchor in the Gulf of Mexico in the US; and Phoenix in Argentina.

在第一個支柱即石油和天然氣方面，我們已在五個主要項目上開始生產，包括巴西近海深水區的 Mero 2 和 Mero 3 項目；尼日利亞的Akpo West，美國的墨西哥灣的Anchor；以及阿根廷的菲尼克斯。

We launched four major oil projects: GranMorgu in Suriname; Atapu 2 and Sepia 2, another two offshore projects in Brazil; and Kaminho in Angola.

我們啟動了四個重大石油計畫：位於蘇利南的GranMorgu；巴西的另外兩個海上項目 Atapu 2 和 Sepia 2；以及安哥拉的卡米尼奧。

We progress in Namibia, where we are working towards sanctioning the first oil development, but Patrick will give you more details later on.

我們在納米比亞取得了進展，我們正在努力批准第一個石油開發項目，但帕特里克稍後會向您提供更多細節。

In LNG business, we further derisk our exposure to spot gas prices in accordance with the strategy we presented to you during the CMD in New York in October.

在液化天然氣業務方面，我們根據10月紐約CMD期間向您介紹的策略，進一步降低現貨天然氣價格的風險。

That means that we continue to successfully market our LNG volumes by signing several new contracts middle term with Asian buyers, representing in 2024, more than 6 million tonnes a year, mostly with an oil indexation.

這意味著我們將繼續成功地推銷我們的液化天然氣產品，透過與亞洲買家簽署幾份新的中期合同，到 2024 年，每年的液化天然氣產量將超過 600 萬噸，其中大部分與石油指數化。

And secondly, we increased upstream gas integration in the US by acquiring interest in dry gas assets in the Eagle Ford play in Texas.

其次，我們透過收購德州 Eagle Ford 氣田乾氣資產的權益，加強了美國上游天然氣的整合力度。

We launched also the Marsa LNG project in Oman, and we became a significant gas operator in Malaysia for the acquisition of 100% of SapuraOMV, which provide us LNG pricing exposure and a platform for future low-cost, low-carbon growth in terms of production.

我們還在阿曼啟動了 Marsa LNG 項目，並透過收購 SapuraOMV 100% 的股份成為馬來西亞重要的天然氣營運商，這為我們提供了液化天然氣定價機會以及未來低成本、低碳生產成長的平台。

In summary on this first pillar, oil and gas, we incurred our upstream production growth forecast of 3% per year through 2030 in a cash-accretive way.

總結一下，在第一個支柱——石油和天然氣領域，我們以現金增值的方式實現了到 2030 年每年 3% 的上游產量成長預測。

And we record a proved reserve replacement ratio above 150%, one of our records in TotalEnergies history.

我們的探明儲量替代率超過了150%，這是道達爾能源歷史上的記錄之一。

Moving now to the second pillar, integrated power.

現在轉到第二支柱，綜合實力。

We were very active in 2024 in that business as well.

我們在 2024 年也非常活躍於該業務。

You see on the slide some of the achievement of the year.

您可以在幻燈片上看到今年的一些成就。

The main highlights of the year, I will come back on that later.

我稍後會回顧今年的主要亮點。

But very important, we reached our cash flow target to have a cash flow from operation above $2.5 billion.

但非常重要的是，我們實現了現金流目標，營運現金流超過 25 億美元。

We are at $2.6 billion in 2024, and I think, obviously, it's a very good achievement.

到 2024 年，我們的收入將達到 26 億美元，我認為這顯然是一個非常好的成就。

Let's move to the figure.

我們來看圖。

We believe that the company delivered once again solid results in 2024 in the softer price environment compared to the previous year 2023.

我們相信，與前一年 2023 年相比，該公司在較為疲軟的價格環境下將在 2024 年再次取得穩健的業績。

The company generated almost $30 billion, $29.9 billion of CFFO coming from all the different businesses.

該公司創造了近 300 億美元的收入，其中 299 億美元的 CFFO 來自各個不同的業務。

And you see here the repartition of this cash flow generation segment by segment.

您可以在這裡看到現金流產生按各個部分重新分配的情況。

First, E&P contributed very strongly to this performance with the cash flow generated in 2024 at $17 million, benefiting from the oil project that I already mentioned in my introduction.

首先，E&P 對這項業績的貢獻非常大，2024 年產生的現金流為 1,700 萬美元，這要歸功於我在介紹中提到的石油計畫。

Integrated LNG business performed with the cash flow at $4.9 billion.

綜合液化天然氣業務現金流達 49 億美元。

It was negatively impacted by lower average LNG prices compared to the year before, low market volatility during the first three quarters of the year that impacted gas trading results.

與去年同期相比，液化天然氣平均價格較低，以及今年前三個季度市場波動性較低，對天然氣交易結果產生了負面影響。

But on the positive side, you will see that the Q4 result shown LNG trading performance back to the level of the first quarter 2023, and we'll make a zoom on that later.

但從積極的一面來看，您會看到第四季度的結果顯示液化天然氣交易表現回到了 2023 年第一季的水平，我們稍後將對此進行放大。

Integrated power continued its track record of strong performance through the year with high cash flow year over year, $2.6 billion in 2024.

綜合電力全年持續保持強勁業績，現金流較去年同期大幅成長，到 2024 年將達到 26 億美元。

Downstream cash flow reflect, in fact, the global weak margin environment, especially in Europe, with refining margins down by almost 45% year over year after the two exceptional years we had benefited from in 2022 and 2023 in relation with the Russian crisis.

事實上，下游現金流反映了全球利潤率較低的環境，尤其是在歐洲，在 2022 年和 2023 年因俄羅斯危機而受益的兩個特殊年份之後，煉油利潤率同比下降了近 45%。

And we suffered as well from operational issues on some of our refineries, especially in France and in the US.

我們的一些煉油廠也遭遇了營運問題，尤其是在法國和美國。

However, you can see that the downstream cash flow remained above $6 million at $6.1 million, demonstrating the resilience of the company integrated downstream model.

然而，您可以看到下游現金流仍保持在 600 萬美元以上，為 610 萬美元，證明了該公司一體化下游模式的韌性。

Let's move to the results themselves.

讓我們來看看結果本身。

So you see that we posted a net income -- adjusted net income at $18.3 billion and an IFRS result at $15.8 billion taking into account mostly in the impairment we recorded in the course of the year on SunPower and the exit on some African -- some exploration leases in South Africa in relation with our exit from these, fair adjustment value adjustments and inventory valuation effects.

因此，您會看到，我們公佈的淨收入——調整後的淨收入為 183 億美元，而 IFRS 結果為 158 億美元，其中主要考慮了我們在這一年中記錄的 SunPower 減值以及我們退出一些非洲——一些南非勘探租約與退出這些租約有關的公允調整價值調整和庫存估價影響。

In terms of profitability, we had a return on equity at 15.8% and the ROCE, return on capital employed, at 14.8% in 2024, which makes TotalEnergies, once again, the number one in terms of ROCE among our peers.

在獲利能力方面，我們的股本回報率為 15.8%，2024 年的資本使用回報率 (ROCE) 為 14.8%，這使得 TotalEnergies 再次成為同行中 ROCE 排名第一的公司。

In terms of investment, you see the figure.

從投資角度來說，你可以看這個數字。

So we invested $15.8 billion, so in the range we gave to you between $17 billion and $18 billion.

因此，我們投資了 158 億美元，所以我們給你的金額在 170 億美元到 180 億美元之間。

On the shareholder return side, we continue to increase the dividends with a distribution of $7.4 billion in 2023 and we executed the $2 billion buyback program per quarter so leading to $8 billion buyback on if you consider all the quarters 2024.

在股東回報方面，我們將繼續增加股息，2023 年的派息為 74 億美元，並且我們每季度執行 20 億美元的回購計劃，因此如果考慮 2024 年所有季度的話，回購總額將達到 80 億美元。

Globally, that means that the payout for 2024 reached 50%.

從全球來看，這意味著 2024 年的賠付率將達到 50%。

Very important to notice that this attractive shareholder distribution was achieved while keeping a very strong balance sheet.

值得注意的是，這種有吸引力的股東分配是在保持非常強勁的資產負債表的同時實現的。

You see the gearing we have end of the year at 8.3% or around 9.5% when normalized.

您可以看到，我們年底的負債比率為 8.3%，如果正常化，則約為 9.5%。

Why?

為什麼？

Because the figure of 3.8% benefited indeed from positive impacts in working cap for $1.5 billion.

因為3.8%的數字確實受益於15億美元營運資本的正面影響。

So in summary, we maintain fortuitous balance sheet while increasing the shareholder return in 2024.

因此，總而言之，我們在 2024 年增加股東回報的同時，保持了良好的資產負債表。

On the investment side, we remain disciplined in 2024 as evidenced by this figure, net investments being within the guidance, $17 billion to $18 billion, $18.8 billion for 2024.

在投資方面，正如這個數字所證明的那樣，我們在 2024 年仍將保持紀律，淨投資在指導範圍內，170 億美元至 180 億美元，2024 年為 188 億美元。

We continue to be highly selective in the project we sanctioned or we invest in, selecting low-cost, high-return, low-emission projects and project resilience through cycles.

我們對於所批准或投資的項目繼續嚴格篩選，選擇低成本、高回報、低排放的項目和具有週期彈性的項目。

Patrick will come back on that later for 2025.

帕特里克將在 2025 年晚些時候再次談到這個問題。

As you can see with the pie, TotalEnergies has a balanced growth strategy with 1/3 of the 2024 CapEx allocated to new oil and gas projects and $4.8 billion to low-carbon energy, mainly renewables, Integrated Power projects for $4 billion.

從圓餅圖中可以看出，TotalEnergies 擁有均衡的成長策略，2024 年資本支出的 1/3 分配給新的石油和天然氣項目，48 億美元分配給低碳能源（主要是再生能源），綜合電力項目為 40 億美元。

We continue to be active with portfolio management using selective M&A to enhance to high grade, in fact, our portfolio. 2024 net CapEx consisted of $16.4 billion of organic CapEx, but also $4.6 billion in acquisition and $3.2 billion in divestments.

我們繼續積極地進行投資組合管理，透過選擇性併購來提升我們的投資組合的品質。 2024 年淨資本支出包括 164 億美元的有機資本支出，但也包括 46 億美元的收購和 32 億美元的資產剝離。

So once again, that means that we continue to be very active on that side, M&A side.

所以再一次，這意味著我們將繼續在併購方面非常活躍。

Previously, I described our focused acquisition on the upstream side, sorry.

之前我描述了我們重點在上游的收購，抱歉。

And on Integrated Power, acquisitions are focused on key deregulated market, such as the US, the UK or Germany, I will come back later on that as well. 2024 divestments included in the upstream or exits from Brunei for the sale of our E&P subsidiaries in Brunei.

至於綜合電力，收購主要集中在主要的放鬆管制市場，例如美國、英國或德國，稍後我也會談到這些方面。 2024 年的資產剝離包括上游業務或退出汶萊，以出售我們在汶萊的 E&P 子公司。

In Downstream, the closing of the second part of the deal with the sale of retail station in Belgium, in the Netherlands and in Luxembourg and with Integrated Power, several divestments in line with our strategy to fund down our projects at when the production is ready to start.

在下游領域，我們完成了交易的第二部分，包括出售位於比利時、荷蘭和盧森堡的零售站以及與 Integrated Power 的幾項資產剝離，這符合我們在生產準備開始時為我們的項目提供資金的策略。

Just to give you two examples.

僅舉兩個例子。

So solar and battery projects in the US that we closed in last December and 50% of our interest in Seagreen projects, offshore wind in the UK.

因此，我們在去年 12 月完成了美國的太陽能和電池項目，以及英國 Seagreen 離岸風電項目的 50% 權益。

Let's discuss now each of the business segments in more details.

現在讓我們更詳細地討論每個業務部門。

2024, I think, showcase the depth of our portfolio, upstream portfolio, pool of attractive growth opportunities that are translating into project sanction, delivering high return and robust reserve replacements.

我認為，2024 年將展示我們的投資組合、上游投資組合的深度、大量有吸引力的成長機會，這些機會將轉化為專案批准、帶來高回報和強勁的儲備替代品。

You have here the list of the main projects sanctioned in 2024, four main projects on the oil side and two projects on the gas and LNG sides.

這裡是 2024 年批准的主要項目的清單，其中包括四個石油方面的項目和兩個天然氣和液化天然氣方面的項目。

This project anchor 3% per year accretive production growth through 2030.

該項目確保到2030年每年的產量增長率為3%。

And very important to notice that we have already derisked project costs by signing largely lump sum EPC contract on that project.

值得注意的是，我們已經透過簽署該專案的大部分總價 EPC 合約來降低專案成本。

The chart on the right-hand side of the slide highlights TotalEnergies compelling investment case.

投影片右側的圖表重點介紹了 TotalEnergies 引人注目的投資案例。

We already have the resources to grow underlying production and cash with ultimately support that will ultimately support dividend growth and attractive shareholder returns.

我們已經擁有增加基礎產量和現金的資源，最終將支持股息成長和有吸引力的股東回報。

Saying that differently, no need for us to make large acquisitions, large M&A, to fill any potential gap.

換句話說，我們不需要進行大規模收購、大規模併購來填補任何潛在的空缺。

Given our consistent strategy, we continue to explore and develop the upstream business.

秉承一貫的策略，我們不斷探索和發展上游業務。

We have maintained a strong and consistent proved reserve life index of around 12 years since 2018.

自 2018 年以來，我們一直保持著強勁且穩定的探明儲量壽命指數，約 12 年。

You see the index for 2024, 12.4 years, it was 11.7 the year before In 2023.

你看 2024 年的指數是 12.4 年，而前一年，也就是 2023 年，是 11.7 年。

I think it's clearly in contrast with some of our peers that posted a decline.

我認為這與我們的一些同行的下滑形成了鮮明對比。

That means that Exxon and TotalEnergies are leading the peer group by a wide margin in terms of portfolio longevity with a key advantage in the depletion business and support cash flow into the next decade.

這意味著埃克森美孚和道達爾能源在投資組合壽命方面遙遙領先於同行，並在枯竭業務和未來十年的支持現金流方面具有關鍵優勢。

Also, you have the figure for proved and probable reserves, which are now at EUR8.5. Saying that differently, we are not a shrinking company, we have been replacing reserves at much faster -- we are replacing reserves at much faster rates than we are depleting them and at a faster pace compared to some of peers.

此外，還有已探明且可能儲量的數據，目前為 8.5 歐元。換句話說，我們並不是一家萎縮的公司，我們補充儲備的速度一直很快——我們補充儲備的速度遠遠快於我們消耗儲備的速度，而且與一些同行相比，我們補充儲備的速度更快。

In 2024, our reserve replacement was a robust 157% of production, up from an already strong figure it was 141% in 2023.

2024 年，我們的儲量替代率將達到產量的 157%，而 2023 年這一數字已經很高了，為 141%。

Vast majority was done through organic growth, which translates into a strong organic reserve replacement ratio of 150%.

絕大多數是透過有機成長實現的，這意味著強勁的有機儲量替代率達到 150%。

These reserve replacement figures demonstrate clearly the depth once again of the portfolio and that we are successful to replenish it year after year.

這些儲備替代數字再次清楚地表明了投資組合的深度，以及我們成功地逐年補充投資組合。

Let's move to integrated LNG business.

讓我們轉向綜合液化天然氣業務。

As shown in the chart on the lower left, the results end of the year, so for the fourth quarter, we're at the highest of the year and benefited from improved market conditions.

正如左下圖所示，這是年底的業績，因此就第四季度而言，我們的業績處於今年的最高水平，並受益於市場條件的改善。

So meaning more volatility and higher price.

因此意味著波動性更大、價格更高。

Adjusted net operating income increased 35% sequentially.

調整後營業淨收入較上季成長35%。

And the reason we are back to the first-quarter '23 level at over $1.4 billion, the 2 blue bars you see on the chart on the lower left.

我們回到 23 年第一季超過 14 億美元的水平的原因在於您在左下方的圖表中看到的 2 個藍色條。

This performance was driven by 6% higher hydrocarbon production for LNG, an average energy price above $10 per mmBTU and ultimately LNG trading results that were able to capture higher market volatility.

這一業績的推動因素包括：液化天然氣的碳氫化合物產量提高了 6%，平均能源價格超過 10 美元/百萬英熱單位，以及最終液化天然氣交易結果能夠捕捉到更高的市場波動。

Although this rebound during the fourth quarter, overall, full-year 2024 results were negatively impacted by low gas price volatility due to the mild '23, '24 winter, high stock level, particularly when at the start of the year, low demand and limited trading opportunities due to globally a balanced global LNG market.

儘管第四季度出現了反彈，但總體而言，2024 年全年業績受到天然氣價格波動低的負面影響，原因是 23、24 年冬季氣候溫和，庫存水平高，尤其是在年初，需求低迷，以及由於全球液化天然氣市場平衡導致交易機會有限。

So what are our expectation or anticipation for 2025?

那麼我們對 2025 年的期望或預期是什麼呢？

As you can see in the top left chart, a colder '24, '25 winter and low end of season storage is expected.

正如您在左上角的圖表中看到的，預計 24、25 年冬季將更加寒冷，且季末儲存量較低。

The end as well of the Russian-Ukraine transit agreement to use the pipeline to import Russian gas is also a factor that will contribute to tighten the market.

俄羅斯與烏克蘭關於透過管道進口俄羅斯天然氣的過境協議的終止也是導致市場收緊的一個因素。

Tightness in Europe should lead to more competition between Europe and Asia to attract or to capture additional energy vessels, and it will result in increased arbitrage opportunities for flexible cargoes between the US and Europe and Asia.

歐洲的緊張局勢將導致歐洲和亞洲在吸引或捕獲更多能源船隻方面的競爭更加激烈，這也將增加美國與歐洲和亞洲之間靈活貨物的套利機會。

This should benefit to TotalEnergies given our dominant oil and gas position in US and our large position as an energy exporter in the US.

鑑於我們在美國石油和天然氣領域的主導地位以及我們作為美國能源出口國的巨大地位，這將對道達爾能源公司有利。

We are number, as you know, in that matter.

如你所知，在這件事上，我們人數不多。

Moving now to integrated power business. 2024 was a continuation of our multi-year track record of performance in that business, so it's definitely a growing business.

現在轉向綜合電力業務。 2024 年是我們在該業務領域多年業績的延續，因此這絕對是一項正在成長的業務。

You see here the progress that we made between '21 and '24.

您可以在這裡看到我們在'21年至'24年間取得的進展。

We have grown integrated power into a business that is yielding strong results.

我們已將綜合電力發展成為一項業績強勁的業務。

We are able to increase by nearly 4 times the cash flow over the period '21 and '24, reaching once again, our objective to have cash flow in 2024 above $2.5 billion.

我們能夠在 21 年至 24 年期間將現金流增加近 4 倍，再次達到我們的目標，即 2024 年現金流超過 25 億美元。

And ROCE increased from 7% to 10%.

且ROCE從7%增加到10%。

That was the target we set for the year.

這是我們今年設定的目標。

In 2024, the company further enhanced integration in the regulated markets for flexible asset acquisitions.

2024年，公司進一步加強了對受監管市場的整合，以實現靈活的資產收購。

So we acquired CCGT in the US and in the UK throughout the year for 3 gigawatts.

因此，我們全年在美國和英國收購了 3 千兆瓦的 CCGT。

And in addition, we increased storage capacity through the acquisition of a major player in German vessel market called Kyon in the middle of the year.

此外，我們也於年中收購了德國船舶市場的主要參與者 Kyon，從而增加了儲存容量。

We also have been active in consolidating our renewable portfolio as part of our farmdown strategy in integrated power I mentioned in my introduction.

我們也積極整合我們的再生能源組合，這是我在介紹中提到的綜合電力農場策略的一部分。

We successfully farmed down the equivalent of 1.2 gigawatts of renewable and battery projects resulting in $1 billion of CapEx being recycled with more than 10% return.

我們成功開發了相當於 1.2 千兆瓦的再生能源和電池項目，從而回收了 10 億美元的資本支出，回報率超過 10%。

On top of that, the company acquired VSB, it's a German-based renewable project developer with a sizable 18 gigawatt pipeline, mainly in Germany, France, Poland with the closing expected this year.

除此之外，該公司還收購了 VSB，這是一家總部位於德國的可再生能源項目開發商，擁有 18 吉瓦的龐大項目儲備，主要分佈在德國、法國、波蘭，預計今年完成交易。

In addition, in 2024, the company strengthened its differentiated market offering of clean firm power.

此外，2024年，公司將加強清潔能源差異化市場供應。

For example, you have the two example, we capture a premium pricing for 3 terawatts of clean firm power to large industrial and big tech companies and through the acquisition of Quadra, so it's a renewable power aggregator in Germany, the company will be able to maximize the value of merchant exposure in deregulating markets.

舉個例子，我們以溢價的方式向大型工業公司和大型科技公司供應 3 太瓦的清潔能源；透過收購德國的再生能源聚合商 Quadra，該公司將能夠在放鬆管制的市場中最大限度地提高商家曝光的價值。

On the emission front, '24 achievement shows that we are ahead of our objectives, you see here the table.

在排放方面，‘24’年的成就表明我們已經領先於我們的目標，您可以在此看到表格。

Operated Scope 1 and 2 emissions are down 36% compared to 2016.

與 2016 年相比，營運範圍 1 和 2 的排放量下降了 36%。

At an absolute level, you see the figure, Scope 1 and 2 operation in our operated facility in 2024 were at 34 million tonnes compared to our target of being less -- of having less than 38.8 million tonnes of CO2.

從絕對水準來看，您可以看到，2024 年我們營運設施的範圍 1 和 2 營運排放量為 3,400 萬噸，而我們的目標是低於 3,880 萬噸二氧化碳。

In fact, reflecting year on year, two opposite movement, two opposite trends.

事實上，反映同比來看，兩種相反的運動，兩種相反的趨勢。

So on one side, a further decline in our operating oil and gas facilities, reflecting emission reduction initiatives undertaken over the last couple of years.

一方面，我們的石油和天然氣設施營運規模進一步下降，反映了過去幾年採取的減排措施。

And in the other hand, the impact of the integration of the new CCGT I mentioned to you, the acquisition we made in 2024, particularly in the US and in the UK.

另一方面，我向您提到的新 CCGT 整合的影響，我們在 2024 年進行的收購，特別是在美國和英國。

On the methane side, the '15 reduction targets we have to reduce the methane on our operation by 50% versus the level we have in 2020, this reduction target was achieved a year early with 2024 operating methane emission now minus 55% compared to 2020 levels.

在甲烷方面，我們2015年的減排目標是將營運中的甲烷排放量在2020年的基礎上減少50%，這項減排目標提前一年實現，2024年的營運甲烷排放量將比2020年的水準減少55%。

We achieved this, thanks to continuous decrease in flaring and fugitive emission in particular in E&P.

我們實現這一目標，得益於燃燒和逸散排放的持續減少，尤其是在勘探與生產領域。

And you have here the example of Gabon with the elimination of routine flaring two years early than anticipated.

這裡舉個加彭的例子，它比預期提前兩年消除了常規火炬燃燒。

And we will continue to reduce operating maintain emissions, and we set a new objective for 2025 with a target of minus 60% compared to reference 2020.

我們將繼續減少營運維護排放，並為 2025 年設定了新目標，目標是與 2020 年相比減少 60%。

To achieve that, you have different action that will be taken.

為了實現這一點，您需要採取不同的行動。

First, the decision we made last year to deploy continuous detection system across all the operated assets in the company.

首先，我們去年決定在公司所有營運資產中部署持續檢測系統。

That means that in 2025, you see here the figure, more than 13,000 equipments for continuous methane tracking will be developed and deployed.

這意味著到 2025 年，你看到這個數字，將開發和部署超過 13,000 台用於連續甲烷追蹤的設備。

Additional technologies improvements will be implemented to further reduce methane emission.

我們將採取額外的技術改進措施來進一步減少甲烷排放。

You have here some example to switch gas instrumentation to wear or to replace the flare tips.

這裡有一些關於更換燃氣儀表或火炬頭的範例。

And last but not least, we reduced our life cycle carbon intensity by 17% compared to 2015, which is better than our initial target of 14%.

最後但同樣重要的一點是，與 2015 年相比，我們將生命週期碳強度降低了 17％，這比我們最初的 14％ 的目標更好。

This indicator reflects, as you know, the amount of CO2 emitted per unit of energy sold and which is, in fact, which matter in our industry.

如您所知，該指標反映的是銷售每單位能源所排放的二氧化碳量，事實上，這對我們的行業來說很重要。

This indicator translate perfectly the evolution of our energy mix and the implementation of our strategy, more energy with less emission.

這項指標完美地體現了我們的能源結構的演變和策略的實施，即消耗更多的能源，減少排放。

And the final slide for this section is the benchmark.

本節的最後一張投影片是基準。

So the positioning relative performance of TotalEnergies compared with our peers on four important metrics.

因此，TotalEnergies 在四個重要指標上的定位相對錶現與我們的同行相比。

So the proved reserve life index, the upstream production costs, the ROCE return on capital employed, and the dividend per share growth.

因此，已探明儲量壽命指數、上游生產成本、資本使用回報率 (ROCE) 以及每股股息成長。

As already mentioned, our strategy has remained consistent, and it allows us to deliver strong results and to remain in the competition, very well positioned.

正如前面提到的，我們的策略始終保持一致，這使我們能夠取得強勁的業績並在競爭中保持非常有利的地位。

Starting with the upstream.

從上游開始。

Our reserve life index increased, I mentioned to you already, from 11.7 years in '23 to a very robust 20.4 years 2024.

我之前提到過，我們的儲備壽命指數從 1923 年的 11.7 年增加到了 2024 年的 20.4 年。

We're on par with ExxonMobil and ahead of the remaining peers, reflecting once again the depth of our portfolio.

我們與埃克森美孚處於同一水平，並領先其他同行，這再次反映了我們投資組合的深度。

We have the resources in hand to continue to grow production and to grow the cash flow, the underlying cash flow, for years to come.

我們擁有足夠的資源在未來幾年繼續增加產量和現金流，即基礎現金流。

And once again, we do not require big M&A to do that.

再次強調，我們並不需要大規模的併購來實現這一目標。

Moving to the cost, to upstream production costs.

轉向成本、轉向上游生產成本。

TotalEnergies has consistently reported the lowest upstream production, so OpEx per barrel, with 2024 figure below $5 per barrel oil equivalents.

TotalEnergies 一直報告上游產量最低，因此每桶營運成本最低，2024 年的數據低於每桶 5 美元石油當量。

This is, of course, a competitive advantage that we want to keep, allowing the company to be resilient even in a low-price environment.

當然，這是我們希望維持的競爭優勢，讓公司即使在低價環境下也能保持韌性。

In terms of profitability, we are pleased to report that in 2024, again, TotalEnergies ranked number one in ROACE among our peers.

在獲利能力方面，我們很高興地報告，2024年，道達爾能源的ROACE再次在同業中排名第一。

It's the third consecutive year that we achieved this performance, demonstrating once again that it's possible to be the most profitable major and to be a leader in the energy transition.

這是我們連續第三年取得這項成績，再次證明我們有可能成為最賺錢的專業，並成為能源轉型的領導者。

On the dividend side, so it's the last graph, the dividend growth -- dividend per share growth.

在股息方面，這是最後一張圖表，即股息成長——每股股息成長。

We are positioned number two at a 25% growth over the last five years, which reflects our strong commitment vis-a-vis our shareholder.

我們位居第二，過去五年的成長率為25％，這反映了我們對股東的堅定承諾。

TotalEnergies maintained, as you know, the dividends between the COVID crisis.

如您所知，TotalEnergies 在 COVID 危機期間維持了紅利。

It was not the case of all our peers.

但並不是所有我們的同齡人都是這樣的。

Some of our peers decided to cut the dividend at that time.

我們的一些同業當時決定削減股利。

And our dividend growth is underpinned by the company's deep upstream portfolio, strong free cash flow outlook, and balance sheet with gearing once again at 8.3% end of '24, 9.5% after normalization.

我們的股利成長受到公司深度上游投資組合、強勁的自由現金流前景和資產負債表的支撐，24 年底的負債比率再次達到 8.3%，正常化後為 9.5%。

And with that benchmark, I leave the floor to Patrick for '25 outlook.

根據這項基準，我把 2025 年的展望留給派崔克來決定。

Thank you, Jean-Pierre, for this '24, which people say it's less than before, but the two years before were exceptional for us.

謝謝 Jean-Pierre，對於這 24 年，人們說今年比以前少，但之前的兩年對我們來說是特別的。

The first largest results in the history of the company.

這是該公司史上第一個最大的業績。

So it's still a good year.

所以這仍然是好的一年。

And in fact, again, I said that in '23 and '22, after the exceptional year, we were entering into a new era because the balance sheet was completely deleveraged.

事實上，我再次說過，在 23 年和 22 年經歷了特殊的一年之後，我們進入了一個新時代，因為資產負債表已經完全去槓桿了。

And the succession in fact, over the last three years, it's easier for us to implement the strategy we have decided because we went in a world where we have more, I would say, capacity to deploy it.

事實上，在過去三年的繼任過程中，我們更容易實施已確定的策略，因為我們進入了一個我們擁有更多能力來部署它的世界。

And that's what we've done in '24.

這就是我們在24年所做的事情。

Jean-Pierre said, we have a deep portfolio of plenty of good opportunities.

讓·皮埃爾說，我們擁有豐富的投資組合，其中有大量的良好機會。

What I will show you is that in '25, what we want to do is not only to grow but also to have to deliver additional free cash flows, which are the most important.

我要向你們展示的是，在25年，我們想要做的不僅是發展，還要提供額外的自由現金流，這是最重要的。

That's why we have this -- we selected this title, delivering an accretive growth, and resilient shareholder returns.

這就是我們選擇這個標題的原因——我們實現了增值成長和穩健的股東回報。

That's our program for '25.

這就是我們的‘25年計劃。

Few words about the markets.

關於市場，我只想說幾句。

So in fact, the oil market, people told me through the title, I think when you look at the figure, it's a little stable.

因此事實上，人們透過標題告訴我，石油市場，我認為當你看這個數字時，它有點穩定。

In fact, this line is quite flat, in fact, okay?

事實上，這條線相當平坦，事實上，好嗎？

It was flat in IOA last year than this year.

去年 IOA 與今年持平。

But in fact, we can say that we have two different, in fact, environment in '23, still a very high increase of the demand because the end of the COVID recovery in China.

但事實上，我們可以說，我們有兩個不同的環境，事實上，23年，由於中國新冠疫情復甦的結束，需求仍然大幅成長。

In '24, the full-year, markets were more bullish about the demand.

24年全年，市場對需求更加樂觀。

At the end, it's only 0.8 million barrels of oil per day.

最終，每天的石油產量僅80萬桶。

But all the expectations on the supply side did not materialize, in fact, as it was anticipated.

但事實上，供給的預期並未全部實現。

And finally, at the end, the OPEC Plus has done a good job to maintain this price, I would say, above $70, $75 per barrel.

最後，我認為 OPEC+ 做得很好，將油價維持在每桶 70 至 75 美元以上。

And I think when we look to '25, I expect IA, not us.

我認為，當我們展望25年時，我期待的是IA，而不是我們。

We have no expert sale, plus 1.1 of million barrel of oil demand, which will be higher than '24.

我們沒有專家銷售，加上110萬桶的石油需求，這將高於'24。

By the way, it's more or less the average -- a little less than 1% that we observed on 20 years.

順便說一句，這差不多是平均值——略低於我們 20 年來觀察到的 1%。

Good news from '24, by the way, is that the increase of oil demand in India was as big as the one in China.

順便說一句，24年的好消息是，印度的石油需求增加與中國一樣大。

So it's -- we have a new engine of oil demand growth in the world.

所以，我們擁有了世界石油需求成長的新引擎。

India is moving to more infrastructure, more manufacturing business model than the one we had in mind.

印度正朝著比我們想像的更多的基礎設施、更多的製造業商業模式轉變。

On the supply side, of course, '25 strong supply from non-OPEC and the US policy, and the US administration is willing to push its production up.

當然，在供應方面，非 OPEC 國家供應強勁，而且美國政策強勁，美國政府也願意提高產量。

So the US -- the US, by the way, liquid production in '24 increased by 0.7 million barrel oil per day.

順便說一下，美國 24 年的液體產量增加了 0.7 百萬桶/天。

And what we speak, by the way, about liquids, is in fact more NGLs than oil because, in fact, most of the liquids production in the US is coming from the increase of the gas and all the associated NGLs.

順便說一下，我們談論的液體實際上更多的是 NGL 而不是石油，因為事實上，美國大部分液體產量來自天然氣和所有相關 NGL 的增加。

Oil is increased by 0.3. We plan for 0.2, 0.3 for 2025.

石油增加0.3。我們計劃在 2025 年實現 0.2、0.3 的目標。

So that's to have that in mind, of course, Brazil, and we'll come back.

所以，當然要記住這一點，巴西，我們會回來的。

We will benefit from the growth in Brazil ourselves, as well.

我們自己也將受益於巴西的成長。

We are not there.

我們不在那裡。

We do not intend to be.

我們無意這樣做。

We are next to Suriname.

我們旁邊是蘇利南。

We'll see the market, of course, will be a debate, I think, in '25 because between the US administration and OPEC Plus.

當然，我認為，我們會看到市場在 25 年會出現一場爭論，因為美國政府和 OPEC Plus 之間會有爭論。

So it will be an interesting debate to observe.

因此這將是一場值得觀察的有趣辯論。

We have been a little cautious in the way we approach the year.

我們對迎接新年的方式有些謹慎。

We put all the results I will show you the forecast based on $70.

我們將所有結果放在一起，我將向您展示基於 70 美元的預測。

We are more it.

我們更是如此。

But if I can do it at $70, I could do it even easier at $80, so you will have some sensitivity in the presentation.

但是如果我能以 70 美元做到這一點，那麼以 80 美元做到這一點就更容易了，因此您在演示中會有一些敏感性。

On the gas is quite different, I think.

我認為，在氣體方面有很大不同。

Last year, the year '24, and we had a very good, I would say, weather during last winter or mild weather.

去年，也就是 24 年，我想說，去年冬天的天氣非常好，或者說是溫和。

And in fact, we ended -- we exited the winter 2024 with high inventories.

事實上，我們在 2024 年冬季結束時庫存就很高了。

And in fact, the full first half of the year, so third, I would say, some quite low volatile -- low volatility in the gas markets, around $8, $9 per mmbtu per TTF during six months because there was no really need to replenish full storage, the storage were high.

事實上，整個上半年，也就是第三季度，我想說，天然氣市場的波動性相當低，六個月內每百萬英熱單位每特提款天然氣波動性約為 8 到 9 美元，因為實際上沒有必要補充全部存儲，存儲量很高。

And that, of course, did not help, by the way, or the capacity, not only the price, absolute price was lower, but also a volatility, which did not help or gas trading to perform.

順便說一句，這當然沒有幫助，無論是產能還是價格，絕對價格都較低，而且波動性也較低，這無助於天然氣交易的表現。

For '25, in fact, as you can see, weather is in Europe, this is much colder, and you have another element of the -- which is not really weather, but you have also the fact that now the transit for Ukraine from Russian gas has been stopped.

事實上，正如你所看到的，對於 25 年來說，歐洲的天氣要冷得多，而且還有另一個因素——實際上不是天氣，而是一個事實是，現在俄羅斯向烏克蘭的天然氣輸送已經停止。

So it creates another attention in terms of supplying gas to Europe.

這在向歐洲供應天然氣方面引起了另一個關注。

And what we observed is that today, we are already at this stage, two months only -- it's still two months before the end of the winter at a low begin to have depleted quite well the storage and it's reflected in the forward curve to second quarter '25.

我們今天觀察到的是，我們已經處於這個階段，僅僅兩個月的時間——距離冬季結束還有兩個月的時間，庫存開始大幅減少，這反映在 2025 年第二季度的遠期曲線上。

So forward gas, it's at $16 per million BTU.

因此，現價天然氣為每百萬英熱單位 16 美元。

So it's above $15 per million Btu.

所以其價格高於每百萬英熱單位 15 美元。

So we anticipate clearly I would say, more volatility, '25 higher prices.

所以我們明確地預計，波動性會加大，價格會上漲。

People could say there will be additional LNG capacity.

人們可能會說將會有額外的液化天然氣產能。

It's quite limited.

它非常有限。

In fact, when we make the math for '25.

事實上，當我們計算‘25’時。

We evaluate that around 20 million tons of new capacity coming on stream, which means 25%.

我們估計今年上半年新增產能約2,000萬噸，佔25%。

So it does not change the fundamental trend.

因此它不會改變基本趨勢。

And you will see probably again, more competition between European buyers, which need to replenish their inventories and Asian buyers.

您可能會再次看到需要補充庫存的歐洲買家和亞洲買家之間的競爭更加激烈。

So of course, for us, there are two spreads which are fundamental TTF, minus and.

因此，當然，對我們來說，有兩個價差，即基本 TTF 減去和。

And then you have the in TKM minus TTF because it's the arbitration.

然後你就有了 TKM 減去 TTF，因為它是仲裁。

And with the volumes we have in the US, our regas capacity in Europe, of course, we can benefit from more arbitration when these spreads are going higher.

當然，憑藉我們在美國的業務量以及我們在歐洲的再氣化能力，當這些價差上升時，我們可以從更多的仲裁中獲益。

But what we expect, we anticipate, again, we'll see for '25.

但是，我們再次預期，我們將在 25 年看到結果。

So two different environment clearly for gas, LNG and oil.

因此，天然氣、液化天然氣和石油顯然存在兩種不同的環境。

Our KPIs for '25 or objectives, how we think about growth.

我們的25年關鍵績效指標或目標，以及我們如何看待成長。

But then, of course, growth is not enough.

但當然，成長還不夠。

It's -- we need to deliver more free cash flow, and it's more volume, more energy, less emissions and growing free cash.

我們需要提供更多的自由現金流，即更多的數量、更多的能源、更少的排放和不斷增長的自由現金。

So globally, our energy production, when I compare the oil and gas and the electrons, we grew by 5%, so will contribute to, I would say, global supply all the people of this planet, 5%, more than 3% growth on the oil and gas and more than 20% growth on the electricity side, and we will reach more than 50 terawatt hour, 50 terawatt hour is halfway of the objective by 2030.

因此，在全球範圍內，當我比較石油、天然氣和電子時，我們的能源產量增長了 5%，因此，我想說，這將為全球所有人的供應做出貢獻，石油和天然氣的增長將超過 3%，電力方面的增長將超過 20%，我們將達到 50 太瓦時以上，到 2030 年，50 太瓦時是目標的一半。

And in fact, the electricity production from TotalEnergies will represent 10% of oil and gas production in 2025.

事實上，到 2025 年，道達爾能源公司的電力產量將佔石油和天然氣產量的 10%。

So it's -- for the ones who want to see of the transition is in March, it is.

所以對於那些希望在三月看到過渡的人來說，確實如此。

It is.

這是。

It's reality.

這是現實。

It's -- it's becoming for me, a sizable business.

對我來說，這正在成為一項規模可觀的生意。

And I would say the achievement in the last five years has been quite -- we are on the road map, and I would say quite a success.

我想說，過去五年我們取得了相當大的成就——我們已經按照路線圖前進，我想說我們取得了相當大的成功。

So that's the key.

這就是關鍵。

Refining will do is most is teams to have a better utilization rate.

精煉將要做的是大多數球隊有更好的利用率。

I will come back.

我會回來的。

LNG sales about -- above 40 million tonnes.

液化天然氣銷售量約4000萬噸以上。

We don't have new, I would say, LNG plants coming on stream.

我想說，我們並沒有新的液化天然氣工廠投入營運。

So we should be in the range of what we achieved 40, 45.

因此，我們的目標應該在 40 到 45 之間。

And renewable gross installed capacity, we set this target of 35 gigawatts by end of '25 in 2020.

對於再生能源總裝置容量，我們設定的目標是到 2020 年，即 2025 年底達到 35 吉瓦。

I will come back on it.

我會再回來的。

We will be there at 35.

我們35歲就會到達那裡。

We have 26 by end of '24, and we have exactly 9 gigawatts, which are being built today, 8.9, maybe 0.1 will miss.

到24年底，我們已經有26個，而我們現在正在建設的正好是9千兆瓦，還有8.9千兆瓦，也許還有0.1千兆瓦會錯過。

But -- which are being built.

但——這些正在建設中。

So it is not just an objective, it's a matter to deliver, of course, this capacity.

因此，這不僅僅是一個目標，當然，這也是一個實現這種能力的問題。

But again, more and more myself and the Board, we are touched more and more important to the production of electricity because at the end of result is more linked to the production, but the growth capacity of renewables.

但是，我自己和董事會越來越關注電力生產，因為最終結果不僅與生產相關，還與再生能源的成長能力有關。

Less emissions, yes, we continue to make -- it's part of the, I would say, our global agenda.

是的，減少排放，我們會繼續努力——我想說，這是我們全球議程的一部分。

We need to produce more hydrocarbons, but with less emissions.

我們需要生產更多的碳氫化合物，但減少排放。

So Scope 1 and 2, we set an objective less than 37 million tons.

因此，在範圍 1 和 2 中，我們設定的目標少於 3700 萬噸。

Of course, we can say it's not ambitious enough, but we have one difficulty we face that we have more gas fired power plant in our portfolio that we acquired in 2024 in the UK, in the US where we run.

當然，我們可以說這還不夠雄心勃勃，但我們面臨的一個困難是，我們在 2024 年收購的英國和美國的燃氣發電廠數量更多。

And if it's colder in France, we'll have a higher utilization rate.

如果法國的天氣比較冷，我們的使用率就會更高。

So more CO2.

因此二氧化碳較多。

What is important for us is also to see the decrease on the oil and gas operations was 35 million tonnes in '23, 34 million tonnes in '24 and 33 million tonnes in '25.

對我們來說重要的是看到石油和天然氣業務的減少，23年減少了3500萬噸，24年減少了3400萬噸，25年減少了3300萬噸。

The methane, we are clearly leader on that part.

在甲烷方面我們顯然處於領先地位。

I think it's a very -- it's an easy way for me for the oil and gas industry to have a real contribution to diminishing this greenhouse gas.

我認為這是一個非常簡單的方法，可以讓石油和天然氣產業為減少溫室氣體做出真正的貢獻。

It is in our hands, it's stopped flaring.

現在它已經在我們的掌控之中，火勢已經停止了蔓延。

It's subverting things which are not high tech, I would say, close flare.

它顛覆了那些非高科技的東西，我想說，近距離照明彈。

So we have really embarked the whole company, and Nikola is really very strong about it.

因此，我們真正著手進行整個公司的工作，而 Nikola 對此確實非常堅定。

There's a master of all over of setting all continuous equipment for detection of methane like for oil.

到處都有設置用於檢測甲烷（就像檢測石油一樣）的所有連續設備的大師。

And I think it's really -- we want to be visitors and the teams are motivated.

我認為這確實是——我們想成為訪客，團隊也受到了激勵。

And last but not least, because it's the market of our strategy, our strategy of transition, which is the carbon intensity of the sales of energy, the way of sales is missing there.

最後但同樣重要的一點是，因為這是我們的策略市場，我們的轉型策略，即能源銷售的碳強度，但銷售方式卻缺失。

We have reduced it by 17%.

我們已將其減少了17%。

We want to continue to -- we are, in fact, quicker than on the road map, because we deliver the -- of course, the electrons, which are, I would say, a decarbonizing part of our sales.

我們希望繼續——事實上，我們比路線圖上的速度更快，因為我​​們交付了——當然，電子產品，我想說，這是我們銷售中脫碳的一部分。

But last but not least, all that because we want to grow the free cash flow.

但最後但同樣重要的一點是，這一切都是因為我們想要增加自由現金流。

So we selected three indicators.

因此我們選擇了三個指標。

I will give you some others in the presentation.

我將在演示中向您提供其他一些內容。

Production costs less than $5, could be 5%, but not -- so -- we don't need to have a big, I would say, a cost saving plan, but we are permanently maintaining.

生產成本不到 5 美元，可能是 5%，但不是——所以——我們不需要有一個大的，我想說，一個成本節約計劃，但我們會永久維持。

And honestly, the fact that we have been able for the last three years, despite the inflation that we face to maintain this less $5, it's maybe not spectacular, but it is indeed.

老實說，儘管我們面臨通貨膨脹，但過去三年我們仍然能夠將預算維持在低於 5 美元的水平，這也許並不驚人，但事實確實如此。

So other companies, some of my peers have engaged in large cost-saving plants.

因此其他公司，我的一些同行，都參與建立了大型成本節約工廠。

I think we've done it by 2015, 2020, we have the benefit.

我認為我們在 2015 年、2020 年就已經實現了這個目標，我們將會獲益。

And today, we are strong with the team, are very efficient to manage is $5 per barrel.

今天，我們擁有強大的團隊，能夠非常有效率地將價格控制在每桶 5 美元左右。

So CapEx, I will come back on it.

因此，我會回顧一下資本支出。

I'm sure you will have cushions $17 billion, $17.5 billion as a range and cash flow from operations more than $29.70. We've done $29.80, so it's quite an improvement.

我確信您將擁有 170 億美元、175 億美元的緩衝資金以及超過 297 億美元的營運現金流。我們已經達到了 29.80 美元，所以這是一個很大的進步。

There is some free cash from additional cash flow and the objective of my presentation will tell you where it will come from, in fact, so that you can certify that all this balance of all the business model and the strong returns we intend to deliver to shareholders are in safe hands, which is true.

額外現金流中有一些自由現金，我演講的目的是告訴你們這些現金來自哪裡，事實上，這樣你們就可以證明，所有這些商業模式的平衡以及我們打算給股東帶來的強勁回報都在安全的手中，這是真的。

So by the way, the CapEx first.

順便說一下，首先是資本支出。

So it's true that we gave you a guidance of $18 billion, I think, in New York on organic CapEx.

所以，我認為，我們確實在紐約為您提供了 180 億美元的有機資本支出指引。

Today, we came with organic CapEx of $17 billion, so a reduction and a global CapEx, including M&A of $17 billion, $17.5 billion.

今天，我們的有機資本支出為 170 億美元，因此有所減少，全球資本支出（包括併購）為 170 億美元，即 175 億美元。

Why?

為什麼？

In fact, it's because we've done some few worked, in fact, we have to be clear, all the growth accretive projects will be developed as planned.

其實是因為我們已經做了一些工作，其實我們要明確的是，所有的成長項目都會按照計畫進行。

There is no reduction on any of the nice opportunities we have in our portfolio.

我們的投資組合中的任何良好機會都不會減少。

So I'm completely on the line on of Darren Woods from that perspective, no change.

所以從這個角度來說，我完全同意達倫伍茲的觀點，沒有任何改變。

But at the same time, we have many projects.

但同時，我們也有很多項目。

And so with Nicola and we get it all that with the teams, not to stretch the team by continuing to invest in small projects but focusing the whole company to deliver these large accretive projects, but the program.

所以和 Nicola 一起，我們和團隊一起完成了所有事情，不是透過繼續投資小項目來擴大團隊，而是集中整個公司的力量來實現這些大型的增值項目，而是整個計劃。

So it had us, I would say, in the upstream to find $500 million of small projects, which at the end, is per it's a sort of dispersion, so refocusing because we know also, but we have a workforce, and we cannot amply everything at the same time.

因此，我想說，我們需要在上游找到 5 億美元的小項目，這最終是一種分散，所以我們需要重新聚焦，因為我們也知道，但我們有勞動力，我們無法同時充分完成所有事情。

So it does not impair the global production profile that we have to deliver to you, but it's a question of streamlining, focusing the teams being efficient in the way we spend our cash.

因此，它不會損害我們必須向您提供的全球生產概況，但這涉及精簡的問題，需要團隊集中精力高效使用現金。

The other decision we took to be -- it's more in the low-carbon molecules.

我們做出的另一個決定是——它更多地涉及低碳分子。

It's a little slighter.

稍微輕了一點。

It was $800 million or $900 million in the report of 2024.

2024年的報告中，這一數字為8億美元或9億美元。

It's only $500 million in the budget.

預算只有5億美元。

We drew some lessons.

我們吸取了一些教訓。

And we consider today that it's better in some businesses like EV charging or biogas to have a leverage to equity.

我們今天認為，在電動車充電或沼氣等一些業務中，利用股權槓桿是更好的選擇。

We don't see enough returns in all that, to be honest, in terms of allocation of equity of the company is full equity is not our priority, and we do some lessons.

我們沒有看到這一切足夠的回報，說實話，在公司股權分配方面，全額股權不是我們的首要任務，我們也做了一些教訓。

It doesn't mean that we don't continue to do it, but we move to some business models with less capital intensity.

這並不意味著我們不會繼續這樣做，而是我們會轉向一些資本密集度較低的商業模式。

It's not major.

這不是什麼大事。

On the soft molecules, we continue.

關於軟分子，我們繼續討論。

In fact, the budget, we have this big project in Grand Prix with the Vincent team, which will end before year-end.

事實上，預算，我們與 Vincent 團隊在大獎賽上有一個大項目，它將在年底前結束。

So it's the end of the project.

所以專案就結束了。

So we have done the top.

這樣我們就完成了頂部。

So that's why also, but $500 million of low-carbon molecules is reduced because we do some lessons.

這也是原因所在，但 5 億美元的低碳分子減少了，因為我們學到了一些教訓。

It doesn't mean we will not continue the staff strategy.

這並不意味著我們不會繼續實施員工策略。

It means that we are allocating our capital and our equity in the best way.

這意味著我們正在以最佳方式配置我們的資本和股權。

So that's the reason why we came down to EUR17 billion, EUR17.5 billion.

這就是我們將金額降至 170 億歐元、175 億歐元的原因。

We still have, in case of challenging market conditions, we have identified another $1 billion, which we could decide to arbitrate during the year.

為了應對嚴峻的市場情勢，我們還確定了另外 10 億美元，我們可以在年內決定進行仲裁。

At this stage, it's not necessary.

目前還沒有必要。

Power is at $80, $75, $80.

電力分別為 80 美元、75 美元、80 美元。

So it's not a situation.

所以這不是一個情況。

So that's why I would like -- it's also true, but compared to September, we continue to execute the lump sum EPC contracts, and a lot of them are largely lump sum.

所以這就是我想要的——這也是事實，但與 9 月份相比，我們繼續執行總價 EPC 合同，其中許多基本上都是總價。

So we have security, I would say we have a good vision for 2025 of what we will spend.

所以我們有安全保障，我想說我們對2025年的支出有一個很好的願景。

If they were overrun, it's not in '25, it's more in 2028.

如果他們被擊潰，那也不是在 2025 年，而是在 2028 年。

So I hope I will not be.

所以我希望我不會這樣。

So that's also why we can -- we are confident.

這也是我們能夠做到──我們有信心。

And of course, it's a good work, it's an effort, but continuing to streamline even more when you have a large portfolio of opportunities, I think it's a good discipline.

當然，這是一項很好的工作，是一種努力，但當你擁有大量機會時，繼續進一步簡化，我認為這是一項很好的紀律。

So we -- I announced to you a growth of more than 3% for the upstream growth, oil and gas.

因此，我向你們宣布，上游石油和天然氣的成長將超過 3%。

In fact, you have here the list of the new projects, the new productions, which represent 150,000 barrels per day.

事實上，這裡有新項目、新產量的清單，產量相當於每天 15 萬桶。

What is remarkable on this chart is that 6 of the 8 projects are already started.

該圖表上引人注目的是8個項目中的6個已經開始。

So it's more mainly a matter of ramp-ups.

因此這主要是一個加速的問題。

We have two projects which have to be -- to come on stream, Balimor in the Gulf of Mexico and Meru in Brazil, where, by the way, the operator is a little more optimistic than our sales.

我們有兩個項目必須投產，一個是墨西哥灣的 Balimor 項目，另一個是巴西的 Meru 項目，順便說一句，這兩個項目的運營商比我們的銷售情況要樂觀一些。

So it's good.

所以這很好。

By the way, there are other characterstics on this slide, you have 3 gas projects, Phoenix, and in Malaysia.

順便說一下，這張幻燈片上還有其他特點，有 3 個天然氣項目，Phoenix 和馬來西亞。

You have five oil projects.

你們有五個石油項目。

It's important for the next slide.

這對於下一張投影片很重要。

And by the way, AutoTail is operating 4, Petrobras 3, and Chevron 2.

順便說一句，AutoTail 營運 4 家，巴西石油營運 3 家，雪佛龍營運 2 家。

So we rely on two other big operators, but nice operators.

因此，我們依賴另外兩家大型但優秀的營運商。

So I'm not -- I'm quite comfortable with this busy figure of 3% because it's mainly ramp-ups, and we are on the way to deliver it.

所以我對 3% 這個繁忙數字感到很滿意，因為這主要是產能增加，而且我們正在實現這一目標的路上。

Of course, it's more important, it's not only growing production, it's additional cash flow.

當然，更重要的是，這不僅是增加產量，也是增加現金流。

And that's the good news and important news when we look to this file and is that the growth of 3% of our upstream production, more than 3%, will be translated in terms of cash flow from operations by an increase of more than 8%.

當我們查看該文件時，這是好消息和重要的消息，即我們的上游產量增加 3%，超過 3%，將轉化為經營現金流增加 8% 以上。

In fact, this portfolio of projects -- of course, the portfolio in Brazil, in the Gulf of Mexico are accretive compared to -- and that means that for the same amount of CapEx, in fact, more or less the same between the two years, organic CapEx.

事實上，這個計畫組合——當然，巴西和墨西哥灣的計畫組合相比——是增值的——這意味著，對於相同數量的資本支出，實際上，兩年之間的有機資本支出或多或少是相同的。

You will have an increase of $1.3 billion of free cash, 8% is $1.5 billion of free cash, which will come from this growth.

你的自由現金將增加13億美元，8%就是15億美元的自由現金，這些都來自於這個成長。

And I think that's the good news, of course, for that's why we have the Board.

當然，我認為這是好消息，因為這就是我們成立董事會的原因。

We are confident in the return to shareholders, and we have decided again to increase the dividend by another 7.7% and the final dividend by 7.6%.

我們對股東的報酬充滿信心，並再次決定將股利增加7.7%，並將末期股利增加7.6%。

And so that's I think important, in TotalEnergies, it's value over volume.

所以我認為，對 TotalEnergies 來說，價值比數量更重要。

It's not just growing.

它不只是在成長。

It's also delivering more free cash flows.

它也帶來了更多的自由現金流。

One of the country in which is successful from this perspective, which will contribute to this additional free cash, is Brazil.

從這個角度來看，巴西是其中一個成功的國家，它將為這筆額外的自由現金做出貢獻。

Brazil, in fact, is becoming, in 2025, the number 1 country in our portfolio in terms of cash flow from operations.

事實上，到 2025 年，巴西將成為我們投資組合中經營現金流排名第一的國家。

It's new.

它是新的。

You maybe did not notice, but in fact, since 2015, we have built a portfolio.

您可能沒有註意到，但事實上，自 2015 年以來，我們就已經建立了投資組合。

Today, we have -- we will have eight fields producing 180,000 barrel per day, so it's a successful story.

今天，我們擁有 8 個油田，日產量達 18 萬桶，這是一個成功的故事。

It's quite interesting, by the way, to build such a position.

順便說一句，建立這樣的職位是非常有趣的。

The average margin at $70 per barrel is about $35 per barrel.

每桶70美元的平均利潤約為每桶35美元。

And so in Brazil, we'll continue to invest because we have two other projects that we sanctioned in '24, Sepia 2 and Atapu 2, which will contribute to additional free cash in 2030.

因此，在巴西，我們將繼續投資，因為我們還有另外兩個在 24 年批准的項目，Sepia 2 和 Atapu 2，它們將在 2030 年帶來額外的自由現金。

But the free cash in '25 at $70 per barrel will be $1.4 billion, and $10 per barrel would add another $400 million.

但以每桶 70 美元的價格計算，25 年的自由現金將達到 14 億美元，而每桶 10 美元的價格將增加 4 億美元。

So it's a strong position that we have built since 2015.

這是我們自 2015 年以來建立的強勢地位。

Again, we operate Lapa.

再次，我們經營 Lapa。

Petrobras is our operator on most of that.

我們的大多數業務由巴西石油公司負責營運。

And we had access to -- when you look to the history of the cost of access to all these resources, it was, in fact, quite a good -- quite a low countercyclical cost of access.

而且，當你回顧獲取所有這些資源的成本歷史時，你會發現，我們獲得的這些資源的逆週期成本實際上是相當低的。

We did not discover them, but between the deals we've done with Petrobras in 2015, 2016, then the TOR round that we participated with low competition, we managed to be -- it's a good demonstration on how to build a strong position and in a new country.

我們沒有發現它們，但在 2015 年、2016 年與巴西石油公司達成的交易以及我們在低競爭水平下參與的 TOR 輪融資中，我們成功做到了——這很好地展示瞭如何在新的國家建立強勢地位。

We have also some exploration potential.

我們還具有一些探索潛力。

We continue to look to that.

我們將繼續關注這一點。

The other country in which I want to touch upon because I'm sure we have plenty of questions, is Namibia, so I prefer to pre-empt the questions.

我想談及的另一個國家是納米比亞，因為我確信我們有很多問題，因此我更願意先回答這些問題。

Our friends have made some decisions.

我們的朋友已經做了一些決定。

And in fact, we know, to be clear, we share the same partner, and we have the data.

事實上，我們清楚地知道，我們有同一個合作夥伴，而且我們擁有數據。

We have some data sharing agreements between our friends and ourselves, so we can compare.

我們和朋友之間有一些資料共享協議，所以我們可以進行比較。

It's true that we were, probably, I would say, more lucky or slower or better.

確實，我想說，我們可能更幸運，或者更慢，或者更好。

But they select the block where clearly, the Venus discovery, has better characteristics, petrophysical characteristics.

但他們選擇的區塊顯然是金星發現的，具有更好的特徵和岩石物理特徵。

The oil-in-place density, $10 million to $20 million per barrel of oil compared to the adjacent discovery, which was less than 5%.

石油地質密度為每桶 1,000 萬至 2,000 萬美元，而相鄰的發現油田的石油地質密度則不到 5%。

It's a thick reservoir of 120 meter.

這是一個厚達120公尺的水庫。

The permeability is not very high, I will come back on it, but it's 2 to 4 millidarcies compared to, I would say, less than 1.

磁導率不​​是很高，我會再談這個問題，但它是 2 到 4 毫達西，而我想說的是，小於 1。

So all that makes, in fact, the commerciality of this discovery is achievable.

所有這些實際上使得這項發現的商業化成為可能。

It's in our hands.

它在我們手中。

We are working on it.

我們正在努力。

We have -- that's why we don't make any write-off because on the contrary, we want to transform this discovery into production.

這就是為什麼我們不做任何註銷，因為相反，我們想將這項發現轉化為生產。

So probably, we have there the art of the system on this Eastern -- on this Western part of Namibia Orange Basin.

因此，我們很可能已經掌握了納米比亞橙色盆地東部和西部的系統技術。

So there are some challenges, but that doesn't mean it's not challenging.

因此存在一些挑戰，但這並不意味著它沒有挑戰。

Yes, the permeability is not high, but it's high GOR, or GOR in our license is lower than the neighboring one, 500 against 700, so still again.

是的，滲透率不高，但它的 GOR 很高，或者說我們許可證中的 GOR 低於鄰近的 GOR，500 對 700，所以仍然如此。

But means that the challenge is, in fact, that you have as we don't flare, I remind you, we don't flare, no flaring policy.

但意味著挑戰在於，事實上，我們沒有爆發，我提醒你，我們不爆發，沒有爆發政策。

We have to reinject the gas in the low permeability metric, so that means that we have -- we cannot -- the plateau on which we'll reach will be lower, considering, but it will be a very longer plateau and a slow decline along the years.

我們必須在低滲透率的條件下重新註入氣體，這意味著我們——我們不能——考慮到，我們達到的平台期會更低，但這將是一個非常長的平台期，並且會隨著時間的推移緩慢下降。

So we are designing today a project of 150,000 barrels of oil per day production.

因此我們今天正在設計一個日產15萬桶石油的專案。

It's a very light oil, 45 API, which is good for this value, with a long shallow decline after the plateau.

這是一種非常輕的油，API 為 45，對於這個值來說這很好，在達到穩定期後會出現長時間的淺下降。

The other challenge is 3,000 meter water depth and 300 kilometers from the coast, but I would say that's -- but I mentioned them, because -- but it's not really impacting.

另一個挑戰是 3,000 公尺的水深和距離海岸 300 公里，但我想說的是——但我提到它們，因為——但它並沒有真正的影響。

So our objective, and we are -- to be able -- I will not tell you less than $20 per barrel, but today, we are confident we can reach $20 per barrel of development costs and also, of course, continue to minimize our in-house gas emissions with target 15 kilograms of CO2 per barrel on this development.

因此，我們的目標是——我不會告訴你低於每桶 20 美元，但今天，我們有信心可以達到每桶 20 美元的開發成本，同時當然還會繼續將我們的內部天然氣排放量降至最低，目標是在開發過程中每桶排放 15 公斤二氧化碳。

So on this one, the plan is to move forward.

因此，就這一點而言，計劃是繼續向前推進。

We apply the same ideas than on Suriname, taking FPSO with contracting contractor standards, which have been quite efficient in terms of managing the cost.

我們採用了和蘇利南一樣的思路，採用FPSO，採用承包承包商的標準，在成本管理方面非常有效率。

There are some IDs to optimize, by the way, even the design of the FPSO, the contractors.

有一些 ID 需要優化，順便說一下，甚至是 FPSO 和承包商的設計。

I don't promise you we'll sanction it before year-end.

我無法向你保證我們會在年底前批准它。

I know it's an internal objective.

我知道這是一個內部目標。

I'm more about beginning first half of '26, but it's an important -- it's a good project and on which we are working, so it's good news for Namibia and of course, for TotalEnergies.

我更關心的是 26 年上半年開始的事情，但這很重要——這是一個很好的項目，我們正在努力，所以這對納米比亞來說是個好消息，當然對道達爾能源來說也是如此。

Our neighbors in the north, we are not surprised by the results because the last well we drilled Tamboti was not good.

我們北方的鄰居，我們對這個結果並不感到驚訝，因為我們在坦博蒂鑽的最後一口井並不好。

So we are not surprised that the neighbor in the north didn't make any discovery.

因此我們對北方鄰居沒有發現這一點並不感到驚訝。

It's quite consistent.

相當一致。

We are in the center of this ecosystem.

我們處於這個生態系統的中心。

I would like to add that we have, in fact, some potential, continue to explore, and we -- so it's not in the end.

我想補充一點，事實上，我們還有一些潛力可以繼續探索，所以這還沒結束。

Venus is a focus of, I would say, the engineering and project teams.

我想說，金星是工程和專案團隊關注的重點。

But we have to -- we will drill, I think, during the second quarter.

但我們必須——我認為，我們將在第二季度進行演練。

The rig is on its way.

鑽機正在途中。

Marula, which is a big prospect, you can see south of Venus.

馬魯拉 (Marula) 前景廣闊，你可以看到金星的南部。

We have another on in these blocks in Namibia, which is called Olympe on the block, next block.

在納米比亞的這些區塊中，我們還有另一個，叫做 Olympe，就在這塊區塊的旁邊。

It's a different thematic, but it might be -- it's an interesting exploration to drill.

這是一個不同的主題，但它可能是——一個值得深入探索的有趣話題。

We plan to do it either in end of '25, beginning '26 because we would like to have a full campaign between Olympe and then continuing in South Africa.

我們計劃在25年底或26年初進行，因為我們希望在奧運會和南非比賽之間進行完整的比賽。

We took some positions on the Orange Basin on the South Africa side, where we have two prospects to be drilled.

我們在南非一側的橙色盆地中佔據了一些位置，那裡有兩個鑽探前景。

One is called Volstruis and the other one, Nayla.

一個叫 Volstruis，另一個叫 Nayla。

As all you know, the permitting process in South Africa is a little longer than in some other countries.

眾所周知，南非的許可流程比其他一些國家要長一些。

The idea is better in '25, '26 to have a ring coming and drilling these three exploration wells.

在 25、26 年，最好有一個環線來鑽這三口勘探井。

So an important year for Namibia for progressing on the project.

因此，對納米比亞來說，這是專案進展重要的一年。

On integrated LNG, I will not come back on all the comments of Jean-Pierre, who explained to you, but -- and I mentioned it about environment for gas price.

關於綜合液化天然氣，我不會重複 Jean-Pierre 向您解釋的所有評論，但是——我提到了有關天然氣價格環境的問題。

Yes, we think we have -- we might have a better environment, not only in absolute terms, but also in terms of volatility.

是的，我們認為我們可能擁有更好的環境，不僅在絕對意義上，而且在波動性方面。

If we maintain the performance of the fourth quarter.

如果我們保持第四季的表現。

But again, we should -- and we -- the target is to come back to, after a year where we are, I think, at $4.8 billion of cash flow to come back to target $6 billion, not more, but let's try -- let's target $6 billion and Stephane and his teams are taking actions.

但是，我們的目標是，在一年後，回到目前的 48 億美元現金流，再回到 60 億美元的目標，不會更多，但讓我們嘗試一下，讓我們以 60 億美元為目標，Stephane 和他的團隊正在採取行動。

'25 is also a year for us where we have to progress a number of projects, LNG projects because we should come on stream in '26.

25 年對我們來說也是必須推進多個專案、液化天然氣專案的一年，因為我們應該在 26 年投入生產。

It is a case of Energia Costa Azul in Mexico and North Field East in Qatar, mainly.

主要包括墨西哥的Energia Costa Azul和卡達的North Field East。

Nigeria LNG T7 will be end of '26, so a little impact on the '26 performance, but more for '27.

尼日利亞 LNG T7 將於 26 年結束，因此對 26 年的表現影響不大，但對 27 年的影響較大。

So that's also -- as you can see, we have six LNG projects which today are being underway to -- are being built.

所以這也是——正如你所看到的，我們目前有六個液化天然氣項目正在建設中。

And so this is, of course, another part of the execution efforts of all the teams of TotalEnergies.

當然，這是 TotalEnergies 所有團隊執行努力的另一部分。

Last but not least, but I would say a lot has been done in 2024 by we've -- I would say this strategy of securing some brand-related contracts with Asian buyers, successfully.

最後但同樣重要的一點是，我想說，我們在 2024 年已經做了很多事情——我想說的是，這一策略成功地與亞洲買家簽訂了一些與品牌相關的合約。

It has been on 6 million tons, a very good achievement.

目前已經達到600萬噸，這是一個非常好的成績。

We will continue to work on it because if we have opportunities as we think that the market might be, I would say, softened by the end of the decade, t's a good way to take benefit of it is we have some good contracts, which are oil related.

我們將繼續努力，因為如果我們有機會，正如我們所認為的那樣，到本世紀末市場可能會變得疲軟，那麼利用這個機會的一個好方法就是我們有一些與石油相關的好合約。

So that's for this one.

這就是這個。

A word about integrated power.

關於整合電源的說明。

On this slide, there are only some few figures.

這張投影片上只有一些數字。

I would say, again, this year, '25, we will reach -- this electrons production will represent 10% of the oil and gas production.

我想說的是，今年，也就是 25 年，我們的電子產量將佔石油和天然氣產量的 10%。

So it's -- I think it's a good block on our road map, halfway to our objectives.

所以——我認為這是我們路線圖上的一個很好的里程碑，距離我們的目標已經過了一半。

In terms of cash flow from operations, we say $2.5 billion to $3 billion, we made $2.6 billion.

就經營現金流而言，我們說25億到30億美元，我們賺了26億美元。

We have benefited in the last -- in '24 or '23, by the way, of some hedges, which we have done because of the higher electricity price of '22.

順便說一下，我們在 24 年或 23 年受益於一些對沖，這是我們因為 22 年的電價較高而做的。

We don't have them in '25, but we have additional productions.

我們在 '25 年沒有它們，但我們有額外的作品。

We have new gas-fired power plants, so we are confident we could meet again these objectives in terms of cash generation.

我們擁有新的燃氣發電廠，因此我們有信心在現金產生方面再次實現這些目標。

It's not written, but maintaining the 10% return on capital employed, even increasing it is, of course, on the road map of Stephane and his teams.

雖然沒有寫出來，但保持 10% 的資本使用回報率，甚至提高，當然都在 Stephane 和他的團隊的計劃之中。

We are working, but I will answer your questions.

我們正在工作，但我會回答你的問題。

On the downstream, so it's clear that the landscape has changed.

在下游，可以明顯看到景觀已經改變。

You have on the left the refining margin, the European refining margins, which for us is quite an important, I would say, KPI.

左邊是煉油利潤，即歐洲煉油利潤，對我們來說，這是一個相當重要的 KPI。

The environment has changed in the middle of the year.

今年年中，環境就發生了變化。

You can see you have the, in gray, the min and the max in 2018, 2021 before the -- which is a war.

您可以看到，灰色部分錶示 2018 年和 2021 年之前的最小值和最大值——這是一場戰爭。

You have where we were in the last -- you can see we were in '22, '23, largely above, but it was, I would say, historic markets.

您可以看到，我們在 22 年、23 年的情況在很大程度上是高於歷史水平的，但我想說，這是歷史性的市場。

We benefited from it.

我們從中受益匪淺。

In '24, we are back to a sort of normalization, a little low because $25 per ton isn't breakeven, so I prefer $35 per ton.

在'24年，我們回到了某種正常化狀態，有點低，因為每噸25美元不是盈虧平衡點，所以我更喜歡每噸35美元。

As we are optimistic, we have made the budget and $35 per ton.

由於我們很樂觀，所以我們制定了預算，每噸 35 美元。

But maybe if there are tariffs on Canadian crude oil, we can reach it.

但如果對加拿大原油徵收關稅，我們或許就能實現這個目標。

Yesterday, it was at $40, so it's not impossible.

昨天的價格是 40 美元，所以並非不可能。

Sometimes you have some events in this planet, which can help you.

有時這個星球上會發生一些事件，這些事件可以對你有幫助。

You don't control everything.

你不能控制一切。

But what we should do, and that's why we have a target of $7 billion downstream compared to the $6.1 billion this year because there was also some miss, to be clear, on the operational side, which we estimate a little less than $1 billion, say.

但我們應該做什麼呢，這就是為什麼我們設定的下游目標是 70 億美元，而今年的目標是 61 億美元，因為需要明確的是，在營運方面也有一些差距，我們估計差距略小於 10 億美元。

But we're open.

但我們是開放的。

Vincent and his teams are really motivated to eliminate this miss, a very poor performance on launch, which was not, in fact, running well.

文森特和他的團隊確實有動力去彌補這個失誤，即發射時的表現非常糟糕，事實上運作得併不好。

We are hoping that you will run again from March.

我們希望您從三月開始再次參選。

We had some issues on the cracker in normally, because -- not because of the cracker, but because there was a storage, there was an accident, technological accident, independent on our world, but which affected us.

我們通常會在餅乾上遇到一些問題，因為——不是因為餅乾，而是因為有一個存儲，發生了事故，技術事故，獨立於我們的世界，但卻影響了我們。

This is also we are back to normality.

這也是我們恢復正常了。

Port Arthur as well is quite a challenge for years.

亞瑟港多年來也面臨巨大的挑戰。

We have changed the management.

我們已經改變了管理層。

We hope we will deliver better returns.

我們希望能夠帶來更好的回報。

So it's a matter of coming back, I would say, on fundamentals, of course, display on cost, but also delivering the energy efficiency program should deliver $100 million.

所以我想說，這是一個回歸基本面的問題，當然，還要反映在成本上，但實施能源效率計畫應該會投入 1 億美元。

And, of course, plant availability.

當然還有工廠的可用性。

So that's with refining.

這就是精煉。

This downstream segment is helped, I can say it, tell you by performance of the marketing and the trading.

我可以說，這個下游部分得到了幫助，透過行銷和交易的表現來告訴你。

The marketing is quite remarkable because now, we sold quite a large portion of our German, Dutch, Belgium networks.

行銷工作非常了不起，因為現在，我們已經銷售了德國、荷蘭和比利時網路的很大一部分。

In fact, the cash flow from the marketing in '24 is at $2.3 billion.

事實上，1924 年行銷產生的現金流為 23 億美元。

It was exactly the same, but $2.3 billion with these networks.

情況完全一樣，但這些網路的價值為 23 億美元。

So we gain -- we sold them for $3.2 billion.

所以我們獲利了——我們以 32 億美元的價格賣掉了它們。

And in the meantime, I see no impact on the cash flow generated by the division.

同時，我認為這不會對該部門產生的現金流產生任何影響。

So it's quite remarkable, and I can congratulate the teams of Bernard.

這是非常了不起的，我要向伯納德的團隊表示祝賀。

So at the end, you could tell me we would not have done EUR 100 million more, but I like the idea that we cash in these networks in an environment where we are not strategic assets, and at the end, we continue the performance.

所以最後，你可能會告訴我，我們不會再投入 1 億歐元，但我喜歡這樣的想法，即在我們不是戰略資產的環境中兌現這些網絡，並且最終我們會繼續表現。

Trading is doing well as well.

貿易也進展順利。

And that's why we target $7 billion.

這就是我們設定 70 億美元目標的原因。

An improvement, but we have some good reasons.

這是一個進步，但我們也有一些很好的理由。

It's not just margin assumption is fundamentally solving the operational issues we had and continuing to deliver on marketing and trading as per -- which are resilient.

這不僅僅是利潤率假設，它從根本上解決了我們遇到的營運問題，並繼續按原樣進行行銷和交易——這是有彈性的。

So all that gave us, and I will give you the math, but before so the Board of Directors look at it, we have a growth in front of us, a growth of free cash flow.

所以，所有這些都給了我們，我會給你計算結果，但在董事會考慮它之前，我們面前有一個增長，即自由現金流的增長。

And I mentioned $1.5 billion additional free cash coming at $70 from the upstream growth in '25, we plan $10 billion, so it's a step between '24 and 2030.

我提到，25 年上游成長帶來的 70% 的額外自由現金為 15 億美元，我們計劃增加 100 億美元，所以這是 24 年到 2030 年之間的一步。

So it's a good step.

所以這是一個很好的舉措。

So this, we are confident we have a strong balance sheet.

因此，我們相信我們擁有強勁的資產負債表。

So the Board of Directors for the third year in a row decided to increase the dividend by 7%.

因此董事會連續第三年決定將股利增加 7%。

Here, it's not for the full exercise.

這裡，不是為了進行全面鍛鍊。

It's paid dividend per year.

它每年支付股息。

So that's why you see 7.2%.

這就是你看到 7.2% 的原因。

What is paid in a year, it's a combination of two exercise and some interim dividends.

一年支付的，是兩次行使股息和一些中期股息的組合。

So in fact, since for the last three years, we have increased dividend by more than 20%.

事實上，過去三年來，我們的股息增加了 20% 以上。

So it's quite a good, I think, good returns to our shareholders.

所以我認為這對我們的股東來說是相當不錯的回報。

We have translated the euro per share because our dividend is denominated in euro and dollar per share on this chart, because we have some dollar investors.

我們已經轉換了每股歐元數額，因為我們的股息在這張圖表上是以歐元計價的，而每股美元數額則是以美元計價的，因為我們有一些美元投資者。

That's true that they benefit from higher growth, by the way, at $1.1 in the last two years, $1.04, $1.05 is a little lower.

順便說一下，他們確實受益於更高的成長，過去兩年的匯率為 1.1 美元，1.04 美元，1.05 美元略低一些。

But the average for US investors on '22, '25 compared to 7.1% for our European investor would be between 6.5% and 7.8%, so I would say it's not -- we are -- it depends on the exchange rate, but it should -- it's a strong -- also nice upgrade.

但是，2022 年和 2025 年美國投資者的平均收益率與歐洲投資者的 7.1% 相比，介於 6.5% 和 7.8% 之間，所以我想說這不是 - 我們 - 這取決於匯率，但它應該 - 這是一個強勁的 - 也是不錯的升級。

On the buyback, it's a straight chart.

在回購方面，這是一張直線圖表。

So I don't know if it's a Mondrian chart, but you know we have bars of $2 billion, $2 billion, $2 billion.

所以我不知道它是不是蒙德里安圖表，但你知道我們有 20 億美元、20 億美元、20 億美元的長條圖。

I told you in New York that we want to maintain the $2 billion, assuming reasonable market conditions.

我在紐約告訴你們，假設市場條件合理，我們希望維持 20 億美元。

The market conditions are very reasonable, so we maintained the $2 billion.

市場條件非常合理，因此我們維持了20億美元的規模。

I know there were some questions marks among you after the third quarter results early, but generally, when we announce something, we are consistent, we know what we do.

我知道在第三季業績公佈後，大家心中有一些疑問，但總的來說，當我們宣布某件事時，我們是一致的，我們知道自己在做什麼。

And of course, it has been reinforced by the two -- the strong -- or the low gearing at the end of the year, by the end of the year.

當然，到今年年底，這兩種強勁的或低槓桿率都進一步強化了這種趨勢。

We knew that there will be a way to return this draw on the working capital.

我們知道一定有辦法歸還這筆營運資金。

It came -- it's not -- we will try to find a way to normalize it around the quarter, with some fiscal effect. 8.3% of gearing is low, but I remind you, we are at 7% in end of '22, at 5% end of '23, 8.5% end of '24.

它來了——但事實並非如此——我們將嘗試找到一種方法，在本季度左右使其正常化，並產生一些財政效應。 8.3% 的負債比率很低，但我提醒你，22 年底的負債比率是 7%，23 年底是 5%，24 年底是 8.5%。

So the track record under 10% is quite well established in this company.

因此，這家公司低於 10% 的業績記錄相當良好。

So we have some room, let's be clear, and that's why I can't confirm that the intent is to maintain this $2 billion of buyback per quarter.

因此我們還有一些空間，讓我們明確一點，這就是為什麼我不能確認意圖是維持每季 20 億美元的回購。

We make some math.

我們做了一些計算。

You have them on this chart on the left.

您可以在左側的圖表上找到它們。

At $70, we would generate, we told you more than $29 billion.

如果以 70 美元計算，我們告訴過你們，我們的收入將超過 290 億美元。

So we have, yes, a deficit and CapEx, of course, lower CapEx is helping the, I would say, the balance.

因此，是的，我們有赤字和資本支出，當然，較低的資本支出有助於平衡。

You have something like, I would say, $33 billion, so you have a gap of 4.

我想說，你們大約有 330 億美元，所以你們的差距是 4。

It represents 2% to 3% of gearing increase, less than 2.5% of gearing increase at $70.

它代表著 2% 到 3% 的負債比率增長，在 70 美元時負債比率增長不到 2.5%。

At $80, it's almost off.

價格為 80 美元，幾乎已經便宜了。

So in fact, considering the sensitivity, we have $1 billion.

因此事實上，考慮到敏感性，我們有 10 億美元。

So it's an equation which I think is fully -- is quite completely affordable with a strong balance sheet.

所以我認為，只要資產負債表強勁，這個等式是完全可以負擔的。

And that's why we -- I confirm to you our intent to maintain this $2 billion per quarter.

這就是為什麼我們——我向你們確認我們打算將每季的資金維持在 20 億美元。

As I told you, in New York, you have the sensitivity, which did not change fundamentally on this chart.

正如我告訴你的，在紐約，你的敏感度在這張圖表上並沒有根本性的改變。

So to finalize my -- to end my presentation, this is a chart we showed you in New York, I think, more energy, less emission, growing free cash.

因此，為了結束我的演講，這是我們在紐約向您展示的一張圖表，我認為，更多的能源，更少的排放，不斷增長的自由現金。

We just introduced the year 2025 to remind you the framework in which we are to grow the energy production by 4% per year over the six years through 2030.

我們剛剛介紹了 2025 年，以提醒大家我們將在 2030 年之前的六年內每年將能源產量增加 4% 的框架。

We'll do it 5% in '25.

我們會在25年實現5%的增幅。

Electricity represents 20%, will be at 10% halfway in '25, less emissions.

電力佔20%，25年中將達10%，排放量更少。

And growing cash flow, which I think is very important.

並增加現金流，我認為這非常重要。

What is remarkable is that, as you can see, at $70, $12 per Mbtu TTF and $35 per ton, which is more or less $10 per barrel, only different from '24.

值得注意的是，正如你所看到的，在 70 美元的價格下，每 Mbtu TTF 的價格為 12 美元，每噸為 35 美元，這大約是每桶 10 美元，與 24 年僅相差 10 美元。

We could deliver free cash, which is the same at $70, but at $80 -- and so $80, an additional $3 billion compared.

我們可以提供免費現金，同樣的金額是 70 美元，但是是 80 美元——相比之下，80 美元就多出了 30 億美元。

And again, it's coming, and that's a strong message I want you to keep in mind.

再說一次，它即將到來，這是一個強烈的訊息，我希望你們牢記在心。

But we grow, but we go for value, and we go through accretive growth and additional free cash flow to feed the returns to our shareholders.

但是我們正在成長，我們追求價值，我們透過增值成長和額外的自由現金流來為股東帶來回報。

And the last slide did not change.

最後一張投影片沒有改變。

It's very consistent in TotalEnergies.

其與總能量 (TotalEnergies) 非常一致。

We are -- I strongly believe in energy world, but consistency of essence in terms of strategy.

我們——我堅信能源世界，但在策略方面本質是一致的。

So to be resilient is important.

因此，堅韌不拔非常重要。

We have -- and it's a result of hardwork for the team, a very deep stream portfolio.

我們擁有 — — 這是團隊辛勤工作的結果，擁有非常深厚的串流媒體組合。

And you've seen it through this one of the 157% renewal reserve after 141% last year, which will grow again.

大家已經看到了，繼去年 141% 之後，今年的續約儲備又將成長 157%。

The growth, which will anchor the growth of our production for 2030.

這一成長將為我們2030年的產量成長奠定基礎。

On LNG, we have a good position, very well positioned with the US, European position to benefit from arbitrage, and this is what the teams of Stephane are doing.

在液化天然氣方面，我們擁有良好的地位，可以與美國和歐洲很好地合作，從套利中獲益，而這就是 Stephane 的團隊正在做的事情。

Integrated power, each on the way, on the road map that we set.

整合力量，各就各位，依照我們制定的路線圖前進。

And I gave you all the elements of the financial framework to support this strategy.

我向你們提供了支持這項策略的所有財務框架要素。

Thank you for your attention, and I will be happy to answer with Jean-Pierre and with all the executive members in the room to your questions.

感謝您的關注，我很樂意與 Jean-Pierre 以及在場的所有執行成員一起回答您的問題。

Okay.

好的。

Let's move on to the Q&A.

讓我們繼續問答環節。

So maybe Henry, yeah?

所以也許是亨利，是嗎？

It's Henry Tarr at Berenberg.

他是貝倫貝格的亨利·塔爾。

Just a couple.

只是一對。

In Namibia, I think you mentioned sort of Tamboti perhaps not living up to expectations.

在納米比亞，我認為您提到坦博提可能沒有達到預期。

If you could give a little bit more color on that, that would be great.

如果您能對此進行更詳細的說明，那就太好了。

And then just on the LNG business, what flexibility do you have this year in terms of sort of cargoes that are available to drive that incremental cash flow in integrated LNG?

那麼就液化天然氣業務而言，今年您在可用貨物類型方面有哪些彈性，可以推動綜合液化天然氣的增量現金流？

Okay.

好的。

Tamboti, Nicolas, you want to answer?

塔姆博蒂、尼可拉斯，你們想回答嗎？

You need to take a microphone, or nobody will listen to you.

你需要拿個麥克風，否則沒人會聽你說話。

So Tamboti, there was oil pool.

所以 Tamboti 那裡有油池。

We performed a test of the well.

我們對這口井進行了測試。

Permeability was low, lower than Venus, so what Patrick explained, moving to the north.

滲透性較低，低於金星，所以帕特里克解釋說，它正在向北移動。

So the well did flow, but limited flow.

因此井確實有流量，但流量有限。

So less good than specifically.

所以不太好。

There's no commerciality, to be clear.

明確地說，沒有任何商業性。

So it's not -- we cannot think to connect Tamboti to Venus side, so game is over on Tamboti.

所以不是——我們無法想像將坦博提與金星一側連接起來，所以坦博提的遊戲結束了。

And in fact, it was a risk we knew because when we drill one of the Venus well appraisal, we saw in the north, some degradation.

事實上，我們知道這個風險，因為當我們鑽探金星上的一口油井時，我們發現北部出現了一些退化現象。

I mean so -- but we wanted to drill it because it was a sizable prospect, and in case it could have been additional, but -- so petrophysics are poor, I would say, are more in the same type of range, but what has been written off by some of our colleagues.

我的意思是——但我們想進行鑽探，因為這是一個相當大的前景，並且可能還有額外的潛力，但是——所以岩石物理學很差，我想說，更處於同一類型的範圍內，但我們的一些同事已經放棄了。

So we know the limit in the north.

所以我們知道北方的界限。

We know the limit on the north and west, so we continue to look to the rest of the block.

我們知道北邊和西邊的極限，所以我們繼續觀察街區的其餘部分。

The one of Jean -- Stephane, you want to answer to the flexibility you have in your portfolio?

Jean 的那個－Stephane，您想回答您的作品集的靈活性嗎？

Stephane is there, you have a microphone there.

史蒂芬在那裡，那裡有一個麥克風。

Yes.

是的。

So the flexibility that we have in the portfolio is, as you know, we have a supply that is largely coming from the US, and those US volume either go to Europe or Asia.

因此，如您所知，我們投資組合的靈活性在於，我們的供應主要來自美國，而這些美國的貨物要么運往歐洲，要么運往亞洲。

And as Patrick mentioned, the spread between JKM and TTF should be quite volatile because of low stock in Europe, so we expect people to fight for that LNG, so we will be able to divert the cargo depending on the best market from that US position.

正如帕特里克所提到的，由於歐洲庫存較低，JKM 和 TTF 之間的價差應該會相當不穩定，因此我們預計人們會爭奪液化天然氣，這樣我們就能夠根據美國的最佳市場來轉移貨物。

When we have a long-term contract, generally, we are close to diverse or diverse accounts, the cargoes with some profit sharing, so it's quite flexible.

當我們有長期合約時，一般來說，我們接近不同的或不同的帳戶，貨物有一些利潤分享，所以它非常靈活。

In fact, it's the advantage to be a company portfolio.

事實上，成為公司投資組合是有優勢的。

And we have the regas capacity in Europe, I remind you. 20 million ton to take all this LNG, so this is the infrastructure is helping us from this point of view.

我提醒你，我們在歐洲擁有再氣化能力。 2000 萬噸來承載所有這些液化天然氣，所以從這個角度來看，這些基礎設施正在幫助我們。

Michele?

米歇爾？

Michele Della Vigna from Goldman Sachs.

高盛的 Michele Della Vigna。

Two questions, if I may.

請問我有兩個問題。

The first one is on tariffs.

第一個問題是關於關稅。

Clearly, a very hot topic at the moment.

顯然，這是當下非常熱門的話題。

You've got exposure to various parts of the US energy value chain, renewables, LNG plants.

您接觸過美國能源價值鏈的各個部分、再生能源、液化天然氣工廠。

Is there any area where you would see potential tariffs as being inflationary from your CapEx perspective?

從資本支出角度來看，您是否認為在哪些領域潛在的關稅會造成通貨膨脹？

I'm thinking especially the value chain of the LNG plants, but also perhaps some parts of your downstream business there as well.

我特別考慮的是液化天然氣工廠的價值鏈，但也許也考慮那裡的下游業務的某些部分。

And then secondly, on gas, there's a big debate about summer in Europe, with potentially Germany forcing 90% inventories by the end of the summer.

其次，關於天然氣，歐洲關於夏季的爭論很大，德國可能會在夏季末強制使用 90% 的庫存。

Do you see the market being able to do that or a potential repeat of 2022 with a hard competition on price with Asia?

您是否認為市場能夠做到這一點，或者可能重複 2022 年的情況，與亞洲在價格上激烈競爭？

On the second one, I think it's clear.

關於第二個問題，我認為很清楚。

But for me, we have -- that's why my message I think with the situation of European storage.

但對我來說，我們有—這就是我認為我的信息與歐洲儲存情況有關的原因。

If we are too aggressive to replenish our storage and we don't give them a little more time.

如果我們過於積極地補充庫存，我們就不會給他們更多的時間。

And the situation is not exactly the same for Germany because we have more regas terminal today.

而德國的情況也不完全相同，因為我們現在有更多的再氣化終端。

In '22, we are all afraid not to have -- we are trying to put maximum storage because we had a lack of infrastructure.

在22年，我們都擔心沒有——我們正試圖投入最大限度的存儲，因為我們缺乏基礎設施。

In the meantime, we have built some.

同時，我們已經建造了一些。

We have bought some floating units in Germany.

我們在德國購買了一些浮動裝置。

You have 5 million tons of capacity.

你們的產能為500萬噸。

But also in France, we have one.

但在法國，我們也有一個。

So we have more infrastructure.

因此我們擁有更多的基礎設施。

So I think the situation should be a little more.

所以我覺得情況應該要多一點。

But if we go to rush, the only way to rush is to take the LNG from Asia and to pay more.

但如果我們急於求成，唯一的辦法就是從亞洲引進液化天然氣，並支付更多費用。

And again, it could be inflationary.

而且，這可能會導致通貨膨脹。

So I'm -- we have to -- so I think today, yes, we have a risk of that.

所以我 — — 我們必須 — — 所以我認為今天，是的，我們有這樣的風險。

I'm not sure it's good for European customers for European LNG player like TotalEnergies is not necessarily bad.

我不確定這對歐洲客戶來說是否是好事，但對像道達爾能源這樣的歐洲液化天然氣公司來說卻不一定是壞事。

But up to us to also -- for me, situation is not again because we have built some infrastructure, so Europe should take that into consideration, and not just because in '22, we are super afraid, we had a lack of regas capacities on the continent.

但對我來說，情況不會再次發生，因為我們已經建立了一些基礎設施，所以歐洲應該考慮到這一點，而不僅僅是因為在22年，我們非常害怕，我們大陸缺乏再氣化能力。

Today, we had some of them not everything, but we have more.

今天，我們擁有了其中的一些，儘管不是全部，但我們擁有的更多。

And so it's still there.

所以它還在那裡。

So that's the point.

這就是重點。

But yes, I think that's my message.

但確實，我想這就是我要傳達的訊息。

I think there will be some -- we could have higher prices, gas prices and tensions.

我認為會出現一些情況——我們可能會面臨更高的物價、油價和緊張局勢。

And again, the spread between -- that's why the arbitrage from the US, which even by -- because of the Panama channel is even more, I mean that could be another element of the puzzle.

再一次，這就是來自美國的套利的原因，甚至由於巴拿馬渠道的存在，套利空間也更大，我的意思是，這可能是這個謎團的另一個因素。

On the tariff, we are entering a new world.

在關稅方面，我們正在進入一個新世界。

I said that to the Board yesterday.

我昨天向董事會說了這句話。

None of us have never worked in the world of tariff or tariff war.

我們當中沒有人沒有在關稅或關稅戰的世界中工作過。

It was the old war.

那是一場古老的戰爭。

We have been -- we have built a global world with almost no tariff, so we thought everything was easy to move.

我們已經建立了一個幾乎沒有關稅的全球世界，所以我們認為一切都很容易流動。

I mean, I think we have pragmatic guys.

我的意思是，我認為我們擁有務實的人。

By the way, they are able to take decisions and to change their mind, which is good leadership when you are able to see that you could have some points.

順便說一句，他們能夠做出決定並改變主意，當你能夠看到自己可以有一些觀點時，這就是好的領導力。

We could have some difficulties.

我們可能會遇到一些困難。

It's true that you have some spare -- some value chains, but it's true for -- not only for refining or downstream, it's true for car manufacturing.

確實，你有一些多餘的價值鏈，但這不僅適用於煉油或下游，也適用於汽車製造。

A lot of spare parts are moving across the border between Mexico and the US, so you could have this type, which is a -- which is not good news.

很多備件都在墨西哥和美國之間運輸，所以你可能會遇到這種情況，這不是一個好消息。

You could have also some good effects for European refiners.

您也可以為歐洲煉油商帶來一些好處。

If you have a tariff on heavy crude oil in Canada, you will benefit of it.

如果加拿大對重質原油徵收關稅，你將從中受益。

So yes, you might have your effect.

是的，你可能會產生影響。

At the end of the day, I think my view is that the US and restriction will be pragmatic in the interest of the businesspeople.

總而言之，我認為美國的限制措施將是務實的，符合商人的利益。

Fundamentally, it's a country where business is first, more than in Europe.

從根本上來說，這是一個比歐洲更重視商業的國家。

In Europe, we can shout, they don't listen too much to us unless we take strong decision.

在歐洲，我們可以大聲呼喊，但除非我們做出堅決的決定，否則他們不會聽太多我們的意見。

In the US, it's more open to that, including the president.

在美國，包括總統在內，對此更加開放。

So I say -- let's say you today, you have a sort of -- I think '25 will be a little shaky, so let's be ready, but maybe the best for us is to not to take too quick decision in the wrong way, to observe what will remain really policies in place.

所以我說——假設你今天有某種——我認為 25 年會有點不穩定，所以讓我們做好準備，但也許對我們來說最好的是不要以錯誤的方式過快做出決定，觀察哪些政策將會真正保持不變。

It's the same, by the way, for the fiscal policy in the US for renewables, but let's see what will happen in the Congress.

順便說一句，美國針對再生能源的財政政策也是如此，但讓我們看看國會會發生什麼。

Again, I was looking -- I had -- this morning, Stephane give me the map of the federal lands, which are forbidden for onshore wind.

再說一次，我正在查看——我已經——今天早上，史蒂芬給了我一張聯邦土地的地圖，這些土地禁止發展陸上風力發電。

Texas, there is no federal land at all, just to be clear.

德州，根本沒有聯邦土地，說清楚一點。

It's the ROCE.

這是 ROCE。

It's a part of the federal lands.

它是聯邦土地的一部分。

And when we cross in the history of the US went beyond the ROCE.

當我們跨越美國歷史時，超越了ROCE。

So I mean let's observe what will happen.

所以我的意思是讓我們觀察一下會發生什麼。

I think the best -- my view is that we need to observe, not to overreact, and to let this coming six months, we'll give us more answers to many questions to the enthusiasm at the beginning of the administration.

我認為最好的方法是──我的觀點是，我們需要觀察，不要反應過度，並在接下來的六個月裡，對政府執政初期的熱情給出更多的答案。

But it's true that we might have to adapt, and we are not all what we have designed.

但確實，我們可能必須適應，而且我們並不都是我們所設計的那樣。

The supply chain have been designed not only in our industry, but in all industries as a world with no tariff or very limited ones.

供應鏈不僅在我們的產業中被設計出來，而且在所有產業中都被設計成一個沒有關稅或關稅非常有限的世界。

So suddenly, if you disrupt it, you might have bad effects, but also maybe some good effects on the other side.

因此，如果你突然打亂它，可能會產生不好的影響，但也可能產生一些很好的影響。

So I'm -- let's observe and not -- but I take your point.

所以我 — — 讓我們觀察而不是 — — 但我接受你的觀點。

And yesterday, said to the Board, we have -- there, we have to be able to be very adaptable, to react, to look at it.

昨天，我們對董事會說，我們必須具有很強的適應能力，能夠對此作出反應，並且能夠審視問題。

Okay.

好的。

Okay, Martijn?

好的，馬丁？

It's Martijn Rats from Morgan Stanley.

我是摩根士丹利的馬丁拉特斯 (Martijn Rats)。

I have two questions, if I may.

如果可以的話，我有兩個問題。

I wanted to ask you about Suriname.

我想問您有關蘇利南的問題。

So it starts only in Suriname and the recent bond offering suggested a level of for the project that was perhaps a little slightly higher than what we sort of generally understood.

因此，它只在蘇利南啟動，而最近的債券發行表明該項目的水平可能比我們普遍理解的水平略高一些。

And I was wondering if you had a comment on that, whether you're comfortable with the CapEx in Suriname?

我想知道您對此有何評論，您是否對蘇利南的資本支出感到滿意？

And the other thing I wanted to ask you is about trading.

我想問您的另一件事是關於交易的。

It's a bit of an open-ended question, but of course, trading was very, very profitable generally in the industry, '22, 2023, came down a lot in 2024.

這是一個開放式的問題，但當然，行業內的交易通常都非常非常有利可圖，'22、2023 年和 2024 年則大幅下降。

But it's hard to know exactly how much.

但很難知道具體有多少。

Can you perhaps say a bit how the earnings evolution of trading has been and more broadly, what your ambitions are in that business going forward, how you see that business changing?

您能否簡單談談交易獲利的演變？ 更廣泛地說，您對該業務的未來目標是什麼？

Totally, I don't know well, the budget is $10.5 billion, as we mentioned that in September, there is no change at all.

完全不是，我不太清楚，預算是 105 億美元，正如我們在 9 月提到的，沒有任何變化。

So I don't know.

所以我不知道。

That's only maybe using it.

那隻是可能使用它。

They have a small production or to leverage some money cash.

他們進行小規模生產或利用一些資金現金。

I don't know.

我不知道。

So you have to ask the question, but there is no change at all.

所以你必須提出這個問題，但根本沒有任何改變。

There is no impact.

沒有影響。

No, no, we are very close to them, and we are monitoring them.

不，不，我們距離他們非常近，我們正在監視他們。

So no, there is no impact, nothing -- no new elements compared to the budget we gave you, okay?

所以沒有，沒有影響，沒有什麼——與我們給您的預算相比沒有任何新元素，好嗎？

So from this perspective, we'll see.

因此從這個角度來看，我們拭目以待。

On the trading, in fact, honestly, there are different things.

關於交易，事實上，老實說，存在著一些不同的事情。

We have been quite open to you about the gas trading, on the oil trading.

我們對天然氣交易和石油交易的態度是相當開放的。

In fact, that's true that it was an incredible year in '22.

事實上，1922 年確實是令人難以置信的一年。

But the year '24 was a strong year.

但 1924 年是強勁的一年。

It was a good year on our side.

對我們來說這是豐收的一年。

You don't see lower, but strong.

你看到的不是低處，而是堅固之處。

In fact, nothing even higher than it was before '22 and '21 when I compare the results, so I think the teams have adapted.

事實上，當我比較結果時，並沒有比 22 年和 21 年之前更高，所以我認為球隊已經適應了。

It's really linked to the volatility of the market.

這確實與市場的波動有關。

Traders, they complain where things are flat.

交易員們對事情持平的地方提出抱怨。

They don't know what to do, it's flat or we don't like that.

他們不知道該怎麼做，要嘛是平淡無奇，要嘛是我們不喜歡這樣。

When it's a little more rocky mountain, they're happy.

當山上多了一些岩石時，他們就很高興。

So for me, on my side, I'm not sure I'm competing with them, but no, but it's -- I mean, it's -- as we said, it's -- we are strong contributor.

所以對我來說，就我而言，我不確定我是否在與他們競爭，但不，但是 - 我的意思是 - 正如我們所說的那樣 - 我們是強大的貢獻者。

We don't ask them to take more risk.

我們並沒有要求他們承擔更多風險。

It's up to them to manage their business.

管理他們的業務由他們自己決定。

And if they do better results, they have a better pay.

如果他們取得更好的成績，他們的薪水就會更高。

That's quite easy.

這很容易。

So they have a strong motivation.

所以他們有很強的動機。

But on the oil side, there was no miss.

但在石油方面，沒有任何失誤。

Biraj?

比拉傑？

It's actually maybe for Stephane on integrated power, but there's obviously a lot of excitement around data centers and power demand associated with that.

對於 Stephane 來說，這實際上可能與綜合電力有關，但顯然人們對資料中心以及與之相關的電力需求非常感興趣。

I was wondering if you could just give some of your perspectives on what you're hearing from the customers, what are they looking for.

我想知道您是否可以根據從客戶那裡聽到的信息來談論自己的看法，他們正在尋找什麼。

And in particular, could you just do a little compare and contrast across the regions you're in: US, Northwest Europe, and maybe Asia?

具體來說，您能否對您所在的地區進行一些比較和對比：美國、西北歐以及亞洲？

Stephane might complement me.

史蒂芬可能會稱讚我。

I think several comments.

我認為有幾條評論。

First, on our side, our business model, integrated power, is linked to the combination of renewable and flexible assets.

首先，就我們而言，我們的商業模式，綜合電力，與可再生和靈活資產的結合有關。

And we strongly believe that this market, what we call the clean firm power, we managed to sell.

我們堅信，我們成功銷售了這個市場，也就是我們所說的清潔能源。

We have been effective, and we sold 3.3 terawatt hour per year at this stage to different customers, 25% to GAFAM, by the way.

我們的效率很高，目前我們每年向不同的客戶銷售 3.3 太瓦時的電力，其中 25% 賣給了 GAFAM。

So we begin to enter into US market.

因此我們開始進入美國市場。

There is more to be done.

還有很多工作要做。

The figure I gave you is when we sell as TotalEnergies.

我給你的數字是我們以 TotalEnergies 的名義銷售的。

If I am adding the Clearway sales because we are also non-operated assets with Clearway, it's 7 terawatt per year.

如果我加上 Clearway 的銷售額，因為我們與 Clearway 一起也是非營運資產，所以每年的銷售額就是 7 太瓦。

So we benefit somewhere from this market.

因此我們從這個市場中獲益良多。

But what we are looking at, we are not in the infrastructure business.

但我們所關注的並不是基礎建設業務。

So investing in gas-fired power plant in a big part of data centers and gas-fired power plants, which is a sort of infrastructure with, I would say, a return, which is an infrastructure return sort of regulated business, it's not -- it's not where we are targeting.

因此，在資料中心和燃氣發電廠的很大一部分中投資燃氣發電廠，這是一個有回報的基礎設施，我想說，這是一種受監管的基礎設施回報業務，但這不是我們的目標。

What we want is to offer and we have some -- still some dialogue.

我們想要提供的是一些，而且我們還有一些對話。

We have dialogues with some hyperscalers about how do you combine renewables, gas-fired power plant, pickers, and batteries.

我們與一些超大規模企業進行了對話，討論如何將再生能源、燃氣發電廠、拾取器和電池結合。

The renewables in fact, are lowering the costs because when we use renewable, it helps to lower the price at the end for PPA.

事實上，再生能源正在降低成本，因為當我們使用再生能源時，它有助於降低 PPA 的最終價格。

So it's a source of cheaper electricity.

所以它是一種更廉價的電力來源。

But of course, they want a 24/7 reliability, we need to combine it with CCGT because batteries.

但當然，他們想要全天候的可靠性，我們需要將其與 CCGT 結合起來，因為有電池。

And this is a combination where we think we can not only have a reliable electricity, but also a cheaper one, which is honestly what they target.

我們認為，透過這種結合，我們不僅可以獲得可靠的電力，還可以獲得更便宜的電力，這正是他們的目標。

They are, of course, today, they want a lot of volume.

當然，今天他們想要大量的交易量。

They are all shouting, but they don't have enough.

他們都在吶喊，但還不夠。

But if it's expensive, I'm not sure they want to get it.

但如果它很貴，我不確定他們是否願意購買它。

The other points where we have -- I'm listening to this concept, which is coming in the US about big data part, I would say, or a huge part, combining several gigawatts plus.

我們提出的其他觀點是——我正在聽一個概念，這個概念是美國提出的，關於大數據部分，我想說，或者說是很大一部分，結合了幾千兆瓦以上的電力。

In our dialogue, we were discussing with Stephane again yesterday or in analog but with hyperscalers, they attach a lot of value to the reliability.

在我們的對話中，我們昨天再次與 Stephane 進行了討論，或者以模擬的方式，但對於超大規模企業來說，他們非常重視可靠性。

And the reliability is not coming only if you have an independent, I would say, part, independent from the grid.

只有當你擁有一個獨立的部分，我想說，獨立於電網之外的部分，可靠性才會實現。

That does not mean a reliable system.

這並不意味著系統可靠。

So some hyperscalers that we discussed are willing to have the connection to the grid as well.

因此，我們討論過的一些超大規模企業也願意連接到電網。

And the grid, not only -- so it's a grid where you would be able, in case of unreliable supply from your own sources to bring, to withdraw, I would say, electricity from the grid.

而且電網不僅僅是如此——它是一個能夠在您自己的電源供應不可靠的情況下從電網中獲取或提取電力的電網。

So it's more of this business in which we are, this integrated business, taking benefit of the assets, but just building capacities as an infrastructure.

因此，我們從事的更多的是這種業務，這種綜合性業務，利用資產，但只是建立基礎設施的能力。

But maybe Stephane wants to add my comments to give some complement to what I just explained.

但也許史蒂芬想補充我的評論，以補充我剛才的解釋。

So yes, we look at it, but more in the dynamic of what we call integrated and clean firm power.

是的，我們正在研究這個問題，但更多的是研究我們所說的綜合、清潔、穩定的電力的動態。

Yeah, no, just to add on what Patrick has said, just on the geography of it.

是的，不，只是想補充一下派崔克所說的關於地理位置的問題。

There is a clear focus on the US first and notably in Texas, where we have a large presence.

我們首先關注的重點顯然是美國，尤其是德克薩斯州，我們在那裡擁有大量業務。

And as Patrick mentioned, where we can offer a blend of renewable pickers, CCGT, and battery.

正如帕特里克所提到的，我們可以提供再生能源採集器、CCGT 和電池的組合。

That's one.

那是一個。

And we start to see an interest as well on some European countries, notably Germany, where we have tried to develop our presence.

我們也開始看到一些歐洲國家對我們感興趣，特別是德國，我們已嘗試在這些國家擴大業務。

The good thing as well is that in the US, there is a clear focus on time to market.

同樣令人欣慰的是，美國顯然非常注重產品上市時間。

And one way to be able to deliver on the '28 target, 2029 target is clearly to use existing pipe and the construction asset.

實現 2028 年目標和 2029 年目標的方法之一顯然是利用現有管道和建築資產。

Otherwise, that's going to be quite challenging to deliver on time.

否則，按時交付將非常困難。

Your idea is that in the standard today, when you build some new farms, you try to have a connection in both ways?

您的想法是，按照今天的標準，當您建造一些新農場時，您會嘗試建立雙向連結嗎？

That's not for tomorrow, but the day after tomorrow is that any project we do now, we try to preserve some land to be able to welcome that as under.

這不是明天的事，而是後天的事，我們現在做的任何項目，我們都會盡量保留一些土地，以便能夠迎接未來的發展。

And at the same time, we ask for the grid connection to supply the grid, we have to be able to withdraw the power because, as Patrick mentioned, they need to be connected to the grid for reliability reason.

同時，我們要求電網連接來為電網供電，我們必須能夠撤出電力，因為正如帕特里克所提到的，出於可靠性原因，它們需要連接到電網。

And the idea is that you can only build that and beyond the meter is probably not going to work.

我們的想法是，你只能建造這個，超出儀表的範圍可能就行不通了。

Chris?

克里斯？

Chris Kuplent from Bank of America.

美國銀行的 Chris Kuplent。

Two questions, if I may, Patrick.

請問我有兩個問題，派崔克。

I think you've been powerfully presenting how busy you are growing organically, but nevertheless, I wanted to ask you, where do you think today?

我覺得您已經非常有力地展示了您在有機成長方面有多麼忙碌，但是儘管如此，我還是想問您，您今天的想法是什麼？

Is it most attractive to buy rather than to build?

購買比建造更具吸引力嗎？

Where do you see the biggest opportunities in the M&A market, considering your ambitions all the way into 2030?

考慮到您對 2030 年的宏偉目標，您認為併購市場最大的機會在哪裡？

And my second question, I'm afraid someone's got to ask you about Mozambique.

我的第二個問題是，恐怕有人要問您有關莫三比克的問題。

Your 2030 numbers you presented in October were including Mozambique.

您十月份提出的2030年數字包括了莫三比克。

What can you give us as an update?

您能提供我們哪些最新消息？

Okay.

好的。

We don't need M&A or inorganic growth.

我們不需要併購或無機成長。

So today, again, I'm -- it's not the right time.

所以今天，我再說一遍，現在還不是時候。

I think we can sell.

我認為我們可以賣。

We have a divestment program at $70, $80 per barrel, the right time to buy.

我們有一個撤資計劃，價格在每桶 70 美元、80 美元時買入，這是合適的時機。

I mean, we'll look again, as you know, if we have continued to have opportunities in the -- for TotalEnergies.

我的意思是，如你所知，我們會再次審視我們是否還有機會——對於 TotalEnergies 來說。

In the US, shale gas to continue to replenish.

在美國，頁岩氣繼續補充。

We have done two deals, but we need to have more.

我們已經達成了兩筆交易，但我們需要達成更多交易。

So that's remained clearly, for me, a priority.

所以對我來說這顯然仍是優先事項。

So there are good opportunities, and I have teams today we are looking around and trying to be imaginative and creative.

因此，這裡有很好的機會，今天我的團隊正在四處尋找並努力發揮想像和創造力。

You have some shale oil producer.

你們有一些頁岩油生產商。

We have a lot of associated gas with the most negative value.

我們擁有大量的負值伴生氣。

So they might have a way to make a deal, and we are working with some of them.

所以他們可能有辦法達成協議，我們正在與其中一些公司合作。

So we'll see this remain, and is quite low.

所以我們會看到這個數字保持不變，而且相當低。

So it's quite accessible, I'd say, these type of things.

所以我想說，這類事情是相當容易實現的。

Otherwise, honestly, I don't -- I'm not -- we don't have a big need.

否則，說實話，我不認為──我們沒有太大的需求。

We are working on other ideas.

我們正在研究其他想法。

On the integrated power, yes, we continue to -- we will continue to acquire, but it's more recycling capital, because this year, we -- to Jean-Pierre, I said it's a good achievement.

關於綜合實力，是的，我們會繼續收購，但更多的是回收資本，因為今年，我們對讓·皮埃爾說，這是一個很好的成就。

We sold 1.2 gigawatt farming down, so recycling $1 billion.

我們出售了 1.2 千兆瓦的電力，從而回收了 10 億美元。

The target was more around than $1 billion, $1.2 billion, to be honest.

說實話，這個目標不只 10 億美元，而是 12 億美元。

So we are still -- so just -- I remember the internal market targets, okay.

所以我們仍然 - 所以只是 - 我記得內部市場目標，好的。

Jean-Pierre is nice, but it's fine with our his colleagues.

Jean-Pierre 很友善，但我們的同事也對他很滿意。

But in fact, we are more targeting 2.

但事實上，我們更針對的是2。

We know what we missed.

我們知道我們錯過了什麼。

It was two countries on which we are almost closed.

這兩個國家我們都幾乎已經接近共識。

And finally, we had an issue with the buyer, so we decided not to close it.

最後，我們與買家發生了問題，因此決定不結案。

But so it's 2 gigawatt per year, it's recycling to $1 billion.

但每年有 2 千兆瓦，回收價值達 10 億美元。

And this $2 billion should lower.

這20億美元應該會減少。

That's why we are already at the plateau in terms of CapEx in integrated power, even if you want to continue to grow.

這就是為什麼我們在綜合電力的資本支出方面已經處於穩定狀態，即使你想繼續成長。

So this one for me, it's a matter now the model must continue to recycle this to be able to grow the assets, but that's fundamental.

所以對我來說，現在的問題是模型必須繼續回收才能增加資產，但這是根本。

And on this one, I would say it's quite obvious what do we target.

關於這一點，我想說我們的目標非常明顯。

We need -- in Germany, we have -- we need to target some one or two gas-fired power plant to maintain when we'll have the full value chain, so that's clear.

我們需要——在德國，我們需要瞄準一兩個燃氣發電廠來維持我們擁有完整的價值鏈，所以這是很清楚的。

Yhe US, PGM, things like that.

是的，美國，PGM，諸如此類的東西。

But again, today in the US, the gas-fired power plants because of these hyperscalers, they are so expensive.

但是，如今在美國，由於這些超大規模設施的存在，燃氣發電廠的成本非常昂貴。

We are lucky to go beyond.

我們很幸運能夠超越。

So let's wait and see.

因此我們拭目以待吧。

Today, it's very fashionable.

如今，它非常流行。

It could come back.

它可能會回來。

And so that's, I would say, these type of examples, but it's not big, big deals, which -- and by the way, Stephane has already consumed quite a lot of this M&A acquisition budget with the ESB deal, so he's always

這就是我要說的這些例子，但這並不是什麼大交易，順便說一句，Stephane 已經在 ESB 交易中消耗了相當多的併購預算，所以他總是

--

--

But it's a business where we can tell you we have a lot of ideas.

但我們可以告訴你，這是一個我們有很多想法的行業。

We have a lot of ideas.

我們有很多想法。

But it's good for me because we can be selective and fundamentally on this M&A integrate power.

但這對我來說是件好事，因為我們可以選擇性地從根本上整合這筆併購資金。

More and more together, we know exactly what we want to achieve.

我們越來越清楚自己想要實現的目標。

And so we have -- the teams are very enthusiastic, but solar in Ireland, I'm not sure it was the most best idea of the team.

所以，我們的團隊非常熱情，但在愛爾蘭使用太陽能，我不確定這是否是團隊最好的想法。

So sorry for the Irish in the room, but nothing against the Irish, but some strange ideas, sometime.

我為房間裡的愛爾蘭人感到抱歉，但這並沒有針對愛爾蘭人，只是有時會有一些奇怪的想法。

That point.

那一點。

The question 2 at Mozambique.

問題2在莫三比克。

Yes, Mozambique is more important.

是的，莫三比克更重要。

On Mozambique, again, I met president of Mozambique.

在莫三比克，我再次會見了莫三比克總統。

It was not any press last -- beginning of last this week and last Monday.

這不是什麼新聞，而是上週初和上週一發生的事情。

I've been there to discuss about what is his views.

我曾去那裡討論過他的觀點。

The good news, in fact, there is a huge continuity in terms of the security setup.

事實上，好消息是，安全設定方面具有很大的連續性。

We kept -- the energy minister is coming -- was already there before.

我們一直說——能源部長即將到來——之前已經在那裡了。

He was not minister, but it was the head of the agency Defense Minister that are the same people.

他不是部長，但是是國防部長的機構負責人，是同一個人。

So I would say, continuity regarding these Mozambique LNG projects and the surrounding there is a will of continuity.

所以我想說，這些莫三比克液化天然氣計畫以及週邊地區的連續性是一種連續的意願。

That's important.

這很重要。

In terms of security, the agreements they have with other countries will remain in place.

在安全方面，他們與其他國家的協議將繼續有效。

And they are dedicated, I would say, to bring the best they can to the project.

我想說，他們都盡心盡力為這個專案做出最大的貢獻。

We have, as you know, it's public, we had a debate with some credit export agencies.

如你所知，這是公開的，我們與一些信貸出口機構進行了辯論。

I think the one which will be solved quickly is the one on the other side of the Atlantic.

我認為能夠很快解決的是大西洋彼岸的問題。

I think I would be surprised that presidential administration will be against.

我認為總統政府會反對我會感到驚訝。

And the LNG project, they have approved, by the way, four years ago, so I think it's a question of weeks.

順便說一句，液化天然氣計畫他們四年前就已經批准了，所以我認為這只是幾週的問題。

So this is important because it was a big part of the credit export.

這很重要，因為它是信貸出口的重要組成部分。

But for Anadarko, we said all that, but it was almost $5 billion.

但對阿納達科來說，儘管我們這麼說，但金額接近 50 億美元。

So once we have this piece, this financing is done, I would say.

所以我想說，一旦我們有了這部分資金，融資就完成了。

I would remind to some of the other credit exports.

我想提醒一些其他信貸出口。

In fact, all of them but to have approved.

事實上，他們所有人都已經批准了。

The other one that they have signed a contract and that we gave them a lot of money, so I'm ready to exercise all my contractual rights but me, Mozambique LNG shareholders because we are only 26% of it.

另一方是他們已經簽署了合同，我們給了他們很多錢，所以我準備行使我所有的合約權利，但我作為莫三比克液化天然氣股東，因為我們只佔 26%。

Okay.

好的。

And then on the project side, the question is to be able, not only to appraise the security on, which is fine.

然後在專案方面，問題是能夠，而不僅僅是評估安全性，這很好。

On the Peninsula, where we're going to build, we have no doubt, to be clear.

對於我們將在半島上進行建設，我們毫無疑問，這是明確的。

It's even better than it was before because everything has been reinforced.

它甚至比以前更好，因為一切都得到了強化。

So I have no problem.

所以我沒問題。

It's more the security of the regions, again, which is more for me a question.

這更多的是關於地區安全的問題，這對我來說更是一個問題。

So I would like -- we are looking to the reality and to see some improvements on this part.

所以我希望——我們正在關注現實並看到這部分的一些改進。

On the contractor side, they are already to start up again.

在承包商方面，他們已經重新開始工作。

The project is -- we told you around $20 billion, it's around $20 billion.

該項目——我們告訴你大約 200 億美元，它大約是 200 億美元。

So there is no change.

所以沒有變化。

So yes, it's true that it's month which is going through -- and we were not anticipated to be honest, in summer last year, these difficulties with credit export agency in particular there because there are no signal.

是的，確實是這個月發生的事情——說實話，去年夏天我們沒有預料到信貸出口機構會遇到這些困難，因為沒有訊號。

When it enters into politics, the politic's mixed.

當它進入政治領域時，政治就變得複雜起來。

So we are active, but it's back track from my point of view, and it's a matter of weeks.

所以我們很活躍，但從我的角度來看，這是倒退，並且只是幾週的時間。

So -- but where we are today, I think we told you 2029, if we lose six months we 2029, 2030, but the idea is to be able to do the project -- to launch the project.

所以 — — 但我們今天所處的情況，我想我們告訴過你 2029 年，如果我們損失六個月，那麼我們就是 2029 年、2030 年，但我們的想法是能夠完成這個項目 — — 啟動這個項目。

And that's the point.

這就是重點。

Lydia?

莉迪亞？

In 2030, to answer precisely to your question, in our road map, it's 3 million tons of LNG, so precisely.

2030 年，為了準確回答您的問題，在我們的路線圖中，液化天然氣的數量是 300 萬噸，非常準確。

So it's not over.

所以事情還沒結束。

It's important, but we have other options to activate in our portfolio.

這很重要，但我們的投資組合中還有其他選擇。

So I'm -- we don't have in our plan '24 of Rio Grande or '25.

所以—我們的計劃中沒有‘24’裡奧格蘭德或‘25’。

So there might have -- I mean we have enough -- the depth of the portfolio, the optionality we have on the LNG side, okay, it may be Mozambique in the base case, but it's not Mozambique, it might be something else.

所以可能有——我的意思是我們有足夠的——投資組合的深度，我們在液化天然氣方面的可選性，好的，在基本情況下可能是莫三比克，但不是莫三比克，可能是其他地方。

I mean so from this perspective, I think we have some different cards to play to meet there.

我的意思是，從這個角度來看，我認為我們可以打出一些不同的牌來滿足這個需求。

And again, it's more the value that I want to -- and not just the volume.

再說一次，我想要的是價值——而不僅僅是數量。

And I will not -- we will not sanction.

我不會——我們不會制裁。

We are working hard on Papua.

我們正在為巴布亞努力工作。

I'm sure I will have a question of Papua, and we are very -- in very good, I mean, I would say, strongly unify our forces with ExxonMobil together to find new ideas to launch the tender.

我確信我會有一個關於巴布亞的問題，我們非常 — — 非常好，我的意思是，我想說，我們與埃克森美孚的力量緊密團結在一起，尋找啟動招標的新想法。

And again, we are not desperate to make the project, but we are working hard to make it back on track, acceptable CapEx to deliver some value.

再說一次，我們並不急於完成這個項目，但我們正在努力使它回到正軌，以可接受的資本支出來實現一些價值。

We'll see by -- I think we'll have the -- we'll have all the offers will come by September 2025, so we should be able to take decisions.

我們會看到——我想我們會有——我們會在 2025 年 9 月之前收到所有報價，所以我們應該能夠做出決定。

But the good news -- but again, there on this one, forces of the two companies are aligned and working together, which is good for us.

但好消息是——但同樣，在這一點上，兩家公司的力量已經協調一致並共同努力，這對我們有利。

It's Lydia from Barclays.

我是巴克萊銀行的 Lydia。

Two questions, if I could.

如果可以的話，我有兩個問題。

The first one, just on CapEx, because if I think about the change from September, the CapEx side was probably the big change.

第一個，僅關於資本支出，因為如果我考慮從九月開始的變化，資本支出方面可能是最大的變化。

So just going back to that, at what point did you go, actually, we need to take it down from $18 billion to that $17.5 billion.

所以回到剛才那個問題，實際上，您需要在什麼時候將其從 180 億美元降至 175 億美元。

And just that point on the contractors and it being lump sum, are the contractors still happy to do that going forward, and you're working with them differently, I think?

就承包商而言，這是一筆總付款，承包商是否仍然樂意繼續這樣做，而且我認為您與他們的合作方式有所不同？

And then the second one was just coming back to the downstream side and the operational issues that we've seen there.

然後第二個問題就回到下游，以及我們在那裡看到的營運問題。

That obviously isn't expected these things happen, but is there anything you're looking at that may be more systemic that you need to go back and look at some of the processes that you have in place?

顯然，這些事情是意料之外的，但您是否正在考慮一些更系統性的事情，需要回過頭來審視您已實施的一些流程？

I will let Vincent explain what he wants to put in place about this availability of the plant.

我將讓文森特解釋他想針對該工廠的可用性採取哪些措施。

It's also so to be clear that we have all the refineries.

也要明確的是，我們擁有所有的煉油廠。

I will tell you -- and you know I'm not a big fan to invest in plenty of big new refineries, in particular, in Europe.

我會告訴你——你知道我不太熱衷於投資大量大型新煉油廠，特別是在歐洲。

So we have also a question of level.

因此我們也有一個水平問題。

It does not mean that we don't have a systematic plan, but Vincent will share with you his action plan that he's putting in place with his colleagues and his teams.

這並不意味著我們沒有系統的計劃，而是 Vincent 將與大家分享他與同事和團隊正在製定的行動計劃。

On the first one, okay, it's not a big change. $0.75 billion out of $17 billion, I know it's a big change.

就第一個而言，好吧，變化不大。 170 億美元中的 0.75 億美元，我知道這是一個很大的改變。

Yes, maybe you were surprised because you were all thinking that will go above.

是的，也許你們感到很驚訝，因為你們都認為那會高於這個數字。

So you don't believe us, you should believe us.

所以你不相信我們，你就應該相信我們。

I've been CEO in front of you for 10 years, I don't think -- I didn't miss a lot of things on this perspective.

我已經在你們面前擔任執行長 10 年了，我認為——從這個角度來看，我並沒有錯過很多事情。

So you should believe us first and not planning that we'll go beyond.

所以你應該先相信我們，而不是計劃我們會超越。

We are -- in fact, we've done our job.

事實上，我們已經完成了我們的工作。

And again, I told you the truth is that -- there was something which was voluntary on these -- some low molecules where we begin to have our EV charging, we want to have to be more frugal in the way we allocate capital, I would say.

我再次告訴你們事實是——在我們開始為電動車充電時，有一些自願性措施——一些低分子措施，我想說，我們希望在分配資本的方式上更加節儉。

The program could be developed the matter is the way we finance all that.

該計劃可以實施，問題在於我們如何為其提供資金。

The other part is, again, to be pragmatic.

另一部分，同樣是務實的。

We have a number of people.

我們有許多人。

We cannot overstretch them because that is a question of safety.

我們不能讓他們過度勞累，因為這是一個安全問題。

It's a question of execution.

這是一個執行的問題。

And we had some subsidiaries where clearly, like Angola, they have a lot of things to be done.

我們有一些子公司，像是安哥拉，顯然有很多事情要做。

And so we look at the plate and we said there are maybe a little too much, so let's arbitrate.

所以我們看了看盤子，然後說可能有點太多了，所以讓我們來仲裁一下。

Let's focus on delivering Kaminho and the key matters and not because the guys or people, you have a bottom-up approach and then you try to be reasonable.

讓我們專注於卡米尼奧和關鍵事項，而不是因為這些人或人們，你採取自下而上的方法，然後你試圖做到合理。

So it came to that conclusion, but I don't see that as -- I think it's a good discipline.

所以它得出了這個結論，但我不認為這是——我認為這是一個好的學科。

By the way, it's proof that

順便說一句，這證明

--

--

But again, we -- all the opportunities bringing additional cash a bit -- so it's more looking.

但是，我們 — — 所有的機會都會帶來一些額外的現金 — — 因此這更具吸引力。

I know when you spend $18 billion to $500 million, $500 million, it's not huge management of exercise.

我知道當你花費 180 億美元到 5 億美元，5 億美元時，這並不是龐大的管理工作。

It's a question to maintain the idea.

這是一個維持想法的問題。

And it's important because now we have a three year in a row at $80, increasing some CapEx, you begin to -- discipline might be somewhere more difficult to obtain.

這很重要，因為現在我們已經連續三年以 80 美元的價格增加一些資本支出，你開始——紀律可能更難獲得。

The fact that we are having this debate, important.

事實上，我們正​​在進行這場辯論，這很重要。

It's also true, to be clear, that the commitment to what we told to you in September, to the buyback is taken into account by everybody.

需要明確的是，我們 9 月告訴大家的回購承諾已被大家考慮到了。

And that's part also of the margins we want to have.

這也是我們想要獲得的利潤的一部分。

So you have an impact on us when you make some comments.

因此，當您發表評論時，我們會受到影響。

We listen to our shareholders and to our investors, which is good.

我們聽取股東和投資者的意見，這是好事。

Oh yeah, Vincent, sorry.

哦是的，文森特，對不起。

So we have a clear plan now on availability, just to make it short.

簡而言之，我們現在有一個明確的可用性計劃。

First, we have very good refineries as well, and we realize that sharing of experience is not fully implemented.

首先，我們也擁有非常好的煉油廠，我們意識到經驗共享尚未完全實現。

To take a very concrete example, the refinery in the US for us too is alone in the US.

舉一個非常具體的例子，我們在美國境內的煉油廠也是獨自在美國。

And we want to take the best of the best players in Europe and to hear, for instance, and to be sure that it's implemented in part here too.

我們希望選拔歐洲最優秀的球員，並聽取他們的意見，確保我們的方案也能部分實施。

So we have changed the management.

因此我們改變了管理方式。

We have people coming from Europe, and we see already the plan delivering the first results.

我們有來自歐洲的人員，我們已經看到該計劃取得了初步結果。

Second axis, in terms of organization, in what I would call the bad players, we see that very often in the maintenance, for instance, the people working on the more long-term improvements, they are cannibalized by the short term when you have issues.

第二軸，在組織方面，我稱之為糟糕的參與者，我們經常看到，在維護中，例如，致力於長期改進的人，當你遇到問題時，他們會被短期所蠶食。

So we need to ensure that these two teams, they are clearly separated and that these particular plans, like for instance in Donges, they are not always fixing issues rather than working on the long term.

因此，我們需要確保這兩個團隊明確分開，並且這些特定的計劃，例如在 Donges，並不總是解決問題，而不是專注於長期發展。

We have also realized in some plans that people could focus on this particular equipment of the refineries, which are bringing the best margin instead of looking at everything to focus on the high-value margin units.

我們也在一些計畫中意識到，人們可以專注於煉油廠的特定設備，這些設備可以帶來最佳利潤，而不是著眼於高價值利潤的設備。

And then, last but not least, and it's very concrete and pragmatic, I think that digital today is ready to bring value.

最後但並非最不重要的一點是，這是非常具體和務實的，我認為今天的數位化已經準備好帶來價值。

We have solutions and we can improve valorization, for instance, of the products in the refineries, thanks to these tools.

我們有解決方案，而且我們可以利用這些工具來提高煉油廠產品的價值。

It's to make it short, but we have plenty of

只是為了簡短，但我們有很多

--

--

I think, honestly, Lydia, I look to the chart that I put it again.

我認為，老實說，莉迪亞，我再次看了我放的圖表。

When you have two years of easy profits, I would say, which came from the sky or refinance.

當你有兩年輕鬆的利潤時，我會說，這些利潤是從天而降的，或者說是再融資。

When I was running this business, I would have never thought I would have a ton of margins.

當我經營這項業務時，我從未想過我會獲得如此大的利潤。

I think it has also an impact somewhere.

我認為它在某些方面也產生了影響。

It's why, in fact, at the end, it's back to fundamentals, back to the things which we are claiming.

事實上，這就是為什麼最終我們要回歸根本，回歸我們所宣稱的。

So it's no critics; it's just a matter of -- again, it was very strong, a very high result.

所以這不是批評家；這只是一個問題——再說一次，它非常強勁，結果非常高。

You lose parts of these plans, and you have a succession of events.

您將失去部分計劃，並遭遇一系列事件。

But again, it's not a matter to sleep, now to react.

但話說回來，這不是睡覺的問題，而是做出反應的問題。

And that's the business.

這就是生意。

It's not systemic.

它不是系統性的。

For me, it's a question of, again, putting back things in normal, and I hope we'll get the results.

對我來說，這是一個讓一切恢復正常的問題，我希望我們能得到結果。

Reasonably optimistic on this one.

對此相當樂觀。

Lucas, here, please.

盧卡斯，請給我。

Thanks very much.

非常感謝。

It's Lucas Herrmann at BNP Exane.

我是法國巴黎銀行證券部 (BNP Exane) 的盧卡斯‧赫爾曼 (Lucas Herrmann)。

Two, if I might, Patrick.

如果可以的話，派崔克，我說兩個。

Liquidity, US share, how have things moved?

流動性、美國份額，情況如何改變？

Where have you got to in terms of the intent to improve it?

您在改進方面的意圖是什麼？

And second, I guess, is just a reminder.

其次，我想，這只是一個提醒。

I have this horrible feeling I'll wake up one day and probably will know about it beforehand that Russia-Ukraine has been resolved.

我有一種可怕的感覺，有一天我醒來後可能會提前知道俄羅斯和烏克蘭的問題已經解決了。

So it's just a reminder of what's the position in terms of legacy dividends, legacy flows that you could potentially recoup over and above obviously regaining -- control's the wrong word, but regaining access to the cash flows from existing assets.

因此，它只是提醒您在遺留股息、遺留流量方面的狀況，您可能會收回這些收益，顯然，除了重新獲得控制權之外，您還可以重新獲得現有資產的現金流。

Thanks very much.

非常感謝。

Okay, first one.

好的，第一個。

First, it's -- I will not tire this into a debate.

首先，我不會讓此事變成一場爭論。

It's not a question of double listing.

這不是雙重上市的問題。

What we want to do is to have one class of shares, only one, which would be -- the introductory market is Paris.

我們想要的是擁有一類股票，只有一類，也就是──入門市場才是巴黎。

These shares might be traded on both markets from 9:30 AM to 6:00 PM in Paris and from 5:00 PM to 10:00 PM in New York.

這些股票可能會在巴黎時間上午 9:30 至下午 6:00 以及紐約時間下午 5:00 至晚上 10:00 在兩個市場上交易。

It's a continuous listing of the same class of shares.

是同一類別股票的連續上市。

That's one.

那是一個。

And at the beginning, it's transforming the ADRs into shares.

一開始，它會將 ADR 轉換為股票。

So I don't want people using double listings.

所以我不希望人們使用雙重清單。

It's not a double listing.

這不是雙重清單。

It's not two classes of shares.

這並不是兩類股票。

And in fact, fundamentally, the stock value, when the two markets are open at the same time, it's just linked by the exchange rate, in fact.

事實上，從根本上來說，當兩個市場同時開放時，股票價值實際上只是透過匯率掛鉤的。

That's the way it works.

這就是它的工作原理。

It's not a two -- double listing.

這不是一個雙重上市。

It's one listing.

這是一個清單。

It's more of a continuous listing, opening, yes, access on the US side to shares and not to ADRs, which have a cost, et cetera.

這更像是一種持續上市，是的，在美國，人們可以獲得股票，而不是 ADR，因為 ADR 需要成本，等等。

Where are we?

我們在哪裡？

We have set with working hours a lot of technicalities with Euroclear and DTCC, which are the two, I would say, transfer agents in the system.

我們與 Euroclear 和 DTCC 設定了許多工作時間方面的技術細節，我想說，它們是系統中的兩家轉帳代理商。

We have also some banks working with us.

我們也有一些銀行與我們合作。

So the technical solutions have been found for all the issues.

所以所有問題的技術解決方案都已經找到了。

So we know if we could vote, we know if we could perceive taxation, so all that is done.

所以我們知道我們是否能夠投票，我們知道我們是否能夠感知稅收，所以一切都已經完成了。

Now we need to go to the legal part.

現在我們需要進入法律部分。

We have entered into a new phase to translate to legal documents.

我們已經進入翻譯法律文件的新階段。

So that means that we are working on it.

這意味著我們正在努力。

We see there is -- I don't anticipate a blocking point, but all that has to be done.

我們看到——我不認為會出現阻塞點，但所有這些都必須完成。

So the good news is that we know how to make this continuous trading on both markets, interaction.

因此好消息是我們知道如何使兩個市場持續的交易和互動。

But we have to translate that into contracts.

但我們必須將其轉化為合約。

Of course, our counterparts do not have only hard topics to solve.

當然，我們的同行要解決的並不全是難題。

So there is a lot of things.

所以有很多事情。

But our view is that -- our objective, to be clear, is to do it in '25, maybe end of '25, but if we don't do it '25, we'll be worried if we cannot do that.

但我們的觀點是——明確地說，我們的目標是在2025年，也許是2025年底實現這一目標，但如果我們不在2025年實現這一目標，我們就會擔心我們做不到。

But that so it's clear, so let's see.

但這樣就很清楚了，讓我們來看看。

You will have some more visibility in the next six months.

在接下來的六個月裡，您將獲得更多的關注。

Technically, we know and we have found all the solutions to the technical questions we had, including the one which is, for example, in France, when you buy and you sell a share, you have to pay 0.3% tax.

從技術上講，我們知道並且已經找到了所有技術問題的解決方案，例如在法國，當你買賣股票時，你必須支付 0.3% 的稅。

That should be applied to the purchase and sales on the US market.

這應該適用於美國市場的購買和銷售。

It's a small detail.

這是一個很小的細節。

It's not a small detail.

這不是一個小細節。

So it was, how do we implement that?

那麼，我們該如何實現呢？

That has required some, I would say, some developments with different intermediaries, et cetera.

我想說，這需要與不同的中介機構進行一些合作，等等。

But we have the solution, so we know how to secure that.

但是我們有解決方案，所以我們知道如何確保這一點。

So that's the type of things where we are.

這就是我們所處的情況。

It's not big deals, but it's a sum of technical details.

這不是什麼大問題，只是一些技術細節的總和。

So we progress.

因此我們進步了。

And again, the Board supports unanimously all these moves.

董事會再次一致支持所有這些措施。

But again, it's a continuous listing of the shares which are primarily introduced in Paris between the two markets.

但同樣，這是兩個市場之間主要在巴黎推出的股票的連續上市。

And then, that's the point.

這就是重點。

Russia, I don't remind the figure anymore.

俄羅斯，我不再想起這個數字了。

I know we have around $1 billion somewhere, somewhere in the system.

我知道我們系統中某個地方大約有 10 億美元。

To be honest, in my head, they have disappeared somewhere.

說實話，在我的腦海裡，他們已經消失在某個地方了。

I don't count on -- I mean, I don't know why, but I see your question.

我不指望——我的意思是，我不知道為什麼，但我明白你的問題。

You are optimistic that -- but we don't have any dividend from Novatek for most of the year.

您對此持樂觀態度——但是一年中的大部分時間我們都沒有從 Novatek 獲得任何股息。

They are somewhere there.

他們就在那裡的某個地方。

And there is a funny law in Russia, which is floating, that if you don't take your dividend after three years, you could lose them.

俄羅斯有一條有趣的法律，規定如果你三年後不領取股息，你可能會失去它們。

So they are funny things.

所以它們是有趣的東西。

They could make one year -- it's not very friendly for foreign investors.

他們可能會做一年——這對外國投資者來說不是很友好。

But honestly, the point is that today, as you know, the situation, everything is frozen from our point of view.

但老實說，問題在於，正如你所知，從我們的角度來看，今天的情況一切都凍結了。

Yamal continues to work, and we continue to exercise the contract of Yamal's works.

亞馬爾號繼續工作，我們也繼續履行亞馬爾號工程的合約。

For the rest, we'll see.

其餘的，我們拭目以待。

The assets, we have the shares.

我們有資產，有股份。

The shares are somewhere, but I'm not -- for 2025, we did not integrate anything in our -- even more on the point, but my question to me is when in Europe, when, at which point, there will be enough LNG capacity in the US, '27, where Europeans might decide they could get rid of the LNG in Russia.

份額在某個地方，但我沒有——對於 2025 年，我們沒有整合任何東西——更重要的是，但我的問題是，歐洲什麼時候，什麼時候，在什麼時候，美國才會有足夠的液化天然氣產能，'27，歐洲人可能會決定他們可以擺脫俄羅斯的液化天然氣。

That's more the question.

這才是問題的關鍵。

Again, in the meantime, the 100 days of President Trump would be, if I easily manage, I will applaud.

再說，與此同時，如果我能輕鬆度過川普總統的 100 天任期，我會為其鼓掌。

Solved not only for TotalEnergies, but for everybody, I would say.

我想說，這不僅解決了 TotalEnergies 的問題，也解決了每個人的問題。

More important than for us.

對我們來說比這更重要。

So that's where we are.

這就是我們現在的狀況。

Again, nothing is -- all the figures you've seen, there is no Russia story, except the Yamal flows.

再說一遍，什麼都沒有——你所看到的所有數字，除了亞馬爾洋流，沒有與俄羅斯有關。

But Yamal, as you know, as we don't hedge too much, we don't hedge Yamal, we have an issue when prices are going -- when we are very low in 2024, the performance of Yamal, which was not hedged, was not as good as it was the year before.

但是，正如你所知，由於我們不會進行過多的對沖，因此當價格上漲時，我們會遇到一個問題——當 2024 年價格非常低時，未經對沖的 Yamal 的表現不如前一年。

It's part also of what has impacted the -- I'm not claiming that, but that's the reality.

這也是造成影響的部分原因——我不是這麼聲稱，但這是事實。

What has been the performance of the contract, '24.

合約履行情況如何？

We're not as good as '23 just because we are more in the spot.

我們不如'23，只是因為我們更注重現場感。

If the price is going back, it could be -- that's the point.

如果價格回升，那可能是——這就是重點。

Irene?

艾琳？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Irene Himona at Bernstein.

伯恩斯坦的 Irene Himona。

My first question on biofuels, if I may, an industry that had its economics deteriorate substantially last year.

我的第一個問題是關於生物燃料的，如果可以的話，該行業的經濟狀況去年大幅惡化。

A lot of your peers are cancelling, withdrawing, impairing.

很多同行正在取消、退出或損害。

There is some valid concern that we won't have the SAF capacity needed by airlines in 2030.

有人擔心到 2030 年我們將無法擁有航空公司所需的 SAF 運力，這種擔憂是有道理的。

So I wanted to ask, because you've obviously converted a number of your units, what do you think needs to happen for that business to economically scale itself up over the next three or four years?

所以我想問一下，因為您顯然已經轉換了一些單位，您認為在未來三到四年內，這項業務需要做些什麼才能在經濟上擴大規模？

My second question is specific to the quarter.

我的第二個問題是關於本季的。

Working capital, we've seen a systematic release of material amounts of cash in Q3 '23, in Q4 '24.

營運資金，我們看到23年第三季和24年第四季系統性地釋放了大量現金。

So can we anticipate that happening in the future?

那麼我們能預見到未來會發生這種情況嗎？

What is driving it?

是什麼在推動它？

What is happening there?

那裡發生了什麼事？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay, Jean-Pierre is the expert of working capital.

好的，Jean-Pierre 是營運資金專家。

I tried to help him, but -- first, I think on the SAF, let's come back to -- there are different ways to produce SAF.

我試著幫助他，但——首先，我認為在 SAF 方面，讓我們回到——生產 SAF 有不同的方法。

There is the easy way or -- easy way, the cheapest way, which is to go from lipids, I would say, those you call animal fats, different wastes, palm oil, things like that.

有一種簡單的方法，或者說最便宜的方法，就是從脂質中獲取，我想說的是，那些你稱之為動物脂肪、不同廢物、棕櫚油之類的東西。

These ones are profitable, and we need to continue to invest because we have this mandate, so you could have a short -- then you have other projects which are honestly, for me, more critical, where we didn't invest today, which are methanol to jet or going to eSAF, green hydrogen.

這些都是有利可圖的，我們需要繼續投資，因為我們有這個任務，所以你可以有一個短暫的——然後你還有其他項目，老實說，對我來說，這些項目更為關鍵，我們今天沒有投資，這些項目包括甲醇噴氣燃料或 eSAF，綠色氫氣。

All that are complex and expensive.

所有這些都是複雜且昂貴的。

In fact, they are not meeting the demand from customers because the airlines are complaining that they want the cheapest one.

事實上，他們沒有滿足客戶的需求，因為航空公司抱怨他們想要最便宜的機票。

My view is that we can meet the mandates by 2030-2035 just by remaining on the cheapest technology.

我的觀點是，只要繼續使用最便宜的技術，我們就能在 2030 年至 2035 年之前滿足要求。

I understand why some people are cancelling some projects, which seems to be on the high side of the capital intensity, and that I understand.

我理解為什麼有些人取消一些項目，這些項目似乎資本密集度偏高，我理解。

On the other side, I think the difficulty is that it's coming -- it's a regulated market, so sometimes you have highs, sometimes you have downs.

另一方面，我認為困難在於——這是一個受監管的市場，所以有時會有高潮，有時會有低潮。

In '24, the HVO were quite low priced.

在 24 年，HVO 的價格相當低。

Suddenly, you see a depression because of the Scandinavian countries, which have changed their rule of the game.

突然間，你會看到，斯堪的納維亞國家因為改變了遊戲規則而陷入衰退。

This year, in 2024, Germany is helping everybody because they have decided that all the inventories which we had in our bio-quotas have disappeared.

今年，也就是 2024 年，德國正在幫助所有人，因為他們決定讓我們的生物配額中的所有庫存消失。

So suddenly you have a lack, and so the price is going up.

因此突然間就出現了短缺，所以價格就上漲了。

So that's the difficulty of this market, and you have to navigate it.

這就是這個市場的困難之處，你必須設法應對。

You have a nice way to make SAF, and that's the reason I saw why you have some cancellations with co-processing.

您有一種製作 SAF 的好方法，這就是我看到您在使用協同處理時出現一些取消的原因。

Because the airline industries have discovered -- have allowed us in fact, because it was in fact just a normative debate.

因為航空業已經發現——事實上已經允許我們這樣做，因為這實際上只是一場規範性辯論。

Can we make some co-processing when you inject used coal in a refinery?

當廢煤注入煉油廠時，我們可以進行一些協同處理嗎？

You produce kerosene.

你生產煤油。

Can you make a mass balance in order to consider that what you have produced is a SAF?

您能否進行品質平衡，以便確定您生產的產品是 SAF 嗎？

So it's not a real SAF, but it's a SAF by aggregation.

所以它不是真正的 SAF，但它是透過聚合形成的 SAF。

And they have this idea in July, last summer, but it's acceptable.

他們在去年夏天七月就有了這個想法，但這是可以接受的。

Why?

為什麼？

Because first, it's much cheaper.

因為首先，它便宜得多。

But by doing that, of course, they have pushed back the other big projects which are really delivering SAF, real SAF.

但是，他們這樣做當然就推遲了其他真正提供 SAF、真正的 SAF 的大型專案。

I would say SAF like the ones we will produce are more expensive.

我想說我們生產的 SAF 會比較貴一些。

So it's just because we were somewhere afraid that we could not have enough stuff, and they are cheaper.

所以這只是因為我們擔心我們的東西不夠，而且它們更便宜。

So I think the co-processing has taken quite a good space in the market.

所以我認為協同處理在市場上佔據了相當大的空間。

And so that's also why I think some of my colleagues have said, why should I continue to invest in your brand greenfield projects?

所以這也是為什麼我認為我的一些同事會說，我為什麼要繼續投資你們品牌的綠地計畫？

Because if I can produce these products just by combining in my own refinery -- so the game has changed.

因為如果我只要在自己的煉油廠中將這些產品結合起來就能生產出這些產品——那麼遊戲就改變了。

And that's the difficulty with these molecules, which are, honestly, very regulated.

這就是這些分子的難點，老實說，它們受到嚴格的管制。

They change the way you accept the things, and so you have this market.

它們改變你接受事物的方式，所以你就有了這個市場。

So that's why investing in CapEx, you need to be a clear coachman.

所以這就是為什麼投資資本支出時，你需要成為一個明確的馬車夫。

You can do it, but on the most efficient projects.

你可以做到，但要以最有效的項目為宜。

I continue to be convinced that for us, it's not greenfield for sure.

我始終堅信，對我們來說，這肯定不是一片綠地。

It's just transforming all the refineries which become old and even not profitable and declining European markets into biofuel.

它只是將所有老舊甚至無利可圖且歐洲市場衰退的煉油廠轉變為生物燃料。

So for me, that's a good thing to do.

所以對我來說，這是一件好事。

And again, the condition to do that, and that's one difficulty, is to find a way to integrate the upstream.

再次強調，要做到這一點，條件也是困難之一，就是找到一種整合上游的方法。

Because then, there, there is a value in all this use of coco, animal fat, so how do you manage?

因為椰子和動物脂肪的所有用途都有其價值，那麼您該如何管理呢？

We built a partnership with SARIA, this German company, on Grand Prix.

我們在 Grand Prix 上與德國公司 SARIA 建立了合作夥伴關係。

We are exploring with them to enlarge this partnership to more and more projects because the integration is a way to secure the value chain, not just to be the transformer of a feedstock which could go high and, by the way, an outlet which could go down.

我們正在與他們探討將這種合作關係擴大到更多的項目，因為一體化是確保價值鏈的一種方式，而不僅僅是成為可能升高的原料的變壓器，順便說一下，也可能下降的出口。

It could be completely squeezed.

它可能會被完全擠壓。

That's the economic difficulty.

這就是經濟困難。

But again, I'm not so afraid.

但我又不那麼害怕。

In fact, I think you have a game there.

事實上，我認為你在那裡有一場比賽。

The airline companies, they are shouting, they have a lack of staff because they want the price to go down to produce -- to provoke the overcapacity.

航空公司大聲疾呼，他們缺少員工，因為他們希望降低票價來生產——從而引發運力過剩。

It's a commodity business.

這是一項商品業務。

So in fact, in our math, when you make the markets, I'm more afraid to have an overcapacity than an undercapacity by 2030.

因此事實上，在我們的計算中，當你建立市場時，我更擔心到 2030 年會出現產能過剩而不是產能不足的情況。

And for them, the game is to say, look, we have a lag.

對他們來說，遊戲就是在告訴他們，看，我們落後了。

But the conclusion is that in Europe, we have to face another difficulty.

但結論是，在歐洲，我們必須面對另一個困難。

To be clear, in Europe, I explained -- I discussed it with discussed it with commissioner in Brussels is that today, we are accepting SAF, importing SAF from China because the airline companies are selling their lag.

需要明確的是，在歐洲，我解釋過——我與布魯塞爾的專員討論過這個問題，今天，我們正在接受 SAF，從中國進口 SAF，因為航空公司正在出售他們的滯後。

But when you import from China -- to be sure, they have all the -- I mean, they are meeting all the criteria that we do in Europe.

但是當你從中國進口時——可以肯定的是，他們擁有所有——我的意思是，他們滿足我們在歐洲的所有標準。

Investing in Europe in a new unit, when you have the staff coming from China or somewhere, it makes a little sense.

當你的員工來自中國或其他地方時，在歐洲投資新部門是有意義的。

So that's all this.

這就是全部內容了。

It's a big difficulty for me on these molecules.

這些分子對我來說是一個很大的困難。

It's plenty of regulated elements, which makes a decision of investment not easy.

受監管因素眾多，使得投資決策變得困難。

But at the same time, let's move.

但同時，讓我們繼續前進。

So it's clear it's a complex market, but it is a market in which I think we have some good cards to play in this one.

因此顯然這是一個複雜的市場，但我認為我們在這個市場上有一些好牌可打。

If we put together the integration, low CapEx, and being serious, it will not be for us a major -- it will be a source of revenue.

如果我們將整合、低資本支出和嚴肅認真結合起來，這對我們來說就不是什麼大事了，而是一個收入來源。

I don't expect that to be billions of free cash.

我不認為那會是數十億美元的免費現金。

But if it can help me to transform some profit losses into, like we have done in La Mède, we went from minus 100 per year to plus 30 per year.

但如果它能幫助我將一些利潤損失轉化為利潤，就像我們在 La Mède 所做的那樣，我們的利潤從每年負 100 美元變為每年正 30 美元。

It's fine.

沒什麼。

At the end, it's worth to make the investment just because we have jobs, et cetera.

最後，僅僅因為我們有工作等等，所以進行投資是值得的。

So that's fine.

那就好了。

That's the objective.

這就是目標。

Working capital, so how do you avoid to make it?

營運資金，那麼如何避免呢？

It's good to make it by the end of the year, but I know that we have some systematic issues about fiscal, for example, in Norway.

能夠在年底前完成這一目標是件好事，但我知道我們在財務方面存在一些系統性問題，例如挪威。

We pay in March, so we have a big draw.

我們在三月付款，因此我們有一筆大額抽獎。

A big chunk of taxes have to be paid at the end of first quarter.

第一季末必須繳納大量稅款。

For the rest?

剩下的呢？

There is no cash belonging to the company outside the company, particularly for your end, but I mentioned to you during my speech that we benefited under this year of exceptional elements, mainly tax elements.

公司外部沒有屬於公司的現金，特別是你們這邊的現金，但是我在演講中跟你們提到過，我們今年受益於特殊因素，主要是稅收因素。

I will just give you one example.

我只舉一個例子。

We are supposed to receive the bill from the German authorities in relation with capital gain tax regenerated when we closed the deal in Germany end of 2023.

我們應該會在 2023 年底在德國完成交易時收到德國當局關於資本利得稅的帳單。

We are supposed to receive the bill during the course of the fourth quarter.

我們應該會在第四季收到帳單。

We haven't received the bill.

我們還沒有收到帳單。

There is no permanent pay recall, so we received the bill, but we will pay in the first quarter 2025.

沒有永久性的工資召回，所以我們收到了帳單，但我們會在 2025 年第一季付款。

Having said that, it's clear that the objective is to try to normalize these flows, to be clear.

話雖如此，但很明顯，我們的目標是嘗試使這些流動正常化。

I'm on your page, because I would prefer to see that as a normalization, but I think there were some lessons that we have been drawn by the different -- by my colleagues in order to normalize it.

我同意你的觀點，因為我更希望看到這是一種正常化，但我認為，為了實現正常化，我們已經從我的同事的不同做法中吸取了一些教訓。

But you can consider that you can trust by the end of each year that you will have more or less a stable situation in your models, in your math.

但你可以考慮，你可以相信，到每年年底，你的模型和數學都會或多或少處於穩定的情況。

Consider that we are able to do it.

我認為我們能夠做到。

We've done it several -- three years in a row.

我們已經連續做了好幾年——三年了。

We know how to do the recipe and we can repeat it.

我們知道如何做這個食譜，而且我們可以重複它。

Thank you, Renaud.

謝謝你，雷諾。

Doug Leggett from Wolfe Research.

來自 Wolfe Research 的 Doug Leggett。

Patrick, you talked earlier about $70, $80 oil is not a good time to buy things, but it might be a good time to sell things.

帕特里克，您之前說過，油價達到 70 美元、80 美元不是買入的好時機，但可能是賣出的好時機。

In your 3% growth target through 2030, what have you assumed?

對於 2030 年 3% 的成長目標，您做了哪些假設？

What are the criteria?

標準是什麼？

I think of a couple of examples, as you're expanding your margin, you still have the UK.

我想到幾個例子，當你擴大你的利潤時，你仍然擁有英國。

The UK has a windfall tax.

英國有暴利稅。

You have Libya, and it's growing, and it has a 93% tax.

例如利比亞，它正在發展，但其稅率卻高達 93%。

So what do you think about the things that are offsetting your margin expansion, and what's your criteria for disposals?

那麼您認為哪些因素阻礙了您的利潤率擴大？

My follow up very quickly is on Suriname.

我很快就跟進蘇利南的情況。

You talked about exploration in Namibia.

您談到了納米比亞的勘探情況。

You didn't talk about the exploration plans in Suriname.

您沒有談到蘇利南的勘探計劃。

I wonder if you can elaborate.

我不知道您是否可以詳細說明。

Good question, both questions are good.

好問題，兩個問題都很好。

No, w2e continue to divest some assets.

不，我們將繼續剝離一些資產。

To be clear, we are -- in '25, we have planned to sell the Nigerian assets onshore.

需要明確的是，我們計劃在 25 年出售尼日利亞境內資產。

It's on its way to be closed, so it will be done.

它即將被關閉，所以它將會完成。

It represents $800 million, $900 million of cash in, so it's a big deal.

它代表著 8 億美元、9 億美元的現金，所以這是一件大事。

In the UK, we have worked on it in different ways.

在英國，我們採用不同的方式來進行工作。

We try to find a way to combine fiscal losses with our tax bill.

我們試圖找到一種方法，將財政損失與稅單結合。

We were not successful.

我們沒有成功。

We had a few issues with some partners.

我們與一些合作夥伴存在一些問題。

But we are continuing to work on this one.

但我們仍在繼續致力於此事。

And I'm very open, to be clear.

我很坦誠，很清楚。

It's not a question of barrels.

這不是桶的問題。

If there are opportunities to save $1 billion of taxation, we'll do it.

如果有機會節省 10 億美元的稅款，我們就會這麼做。

Value is more important.

價值更重要。

Libya?

利比亞？

No, Libya, I disagree.

不，利比亞，我不同意。

Libya, it depends on the type.

利比亞，這取決於類型。

In Libya, more -- I think it's a long-term position.

在利比亞，我認為這是一個長期立場。

And there is a lot of oil to be developed.

還有大量石油有待開發。

Not with the present terms, but they have negotiations today.

不是按照目前的條款，但是他們今天進行談判。

So we are working on it, and I think we can improve the taxation rate in Libya heavily.

所以我們正在努力，我認為我們可以大幅提高利比亞的稅率。

Because it's a country where it's very easy to develop.

因為這是一個非常容易發展的國家。

Cost per barrel is nothing.

每桶的成本不算什麼。

It's onshore, huge amount of oil.

它位於陸上，擁有大量的石油。

So I will not forget -- forgive this position, because the contract today are high tax, but they can be -- they will have to be improved if Libya wants one day to develop its reserves.

所以我不會忘記——原諒這個立場，因為今天的合約稅率很高，但如果利比亞有一天想要開發其儲備，它們就必須得到改善。

That's a debate we have with them today, with the authorities.

這就是我們今天與他們、當局的辯論。

So it's a matter of continuing.

所以這是一個繼續下去的問題。

UK, I see a little future, to be honest.

說實話，我看到了一點英國的未來。

And by the way, it's a country where -- sorry, I'm in London, but we're not exploring UK.

順便說一句，這是一個——抱歉，我在倫敦，但我們不是在探索英國。

Because what happens to our friends?

因為我們的朋友會怎麼樣？

Where they have explored, made discoveries, and today they have a debate who has the right to develop.

他們曾經探索過、發現過哪些地方，而今天他們卻在爭論誰有權利開發。

It's just -- for me, it's not possible to put some exploration money in a country where I'm not sure to get the development license.

只是——對我來說，我不可能把一些勘探資金投入到一個我不確定能否獲得開發許可的國家。

I have to go to courts.

我必須去法庭。

I'm just observing it.

我只是在觀察。

For me, I prefer to explore in countries where I'm convinced I will get the development if I'm making a discovery, which is the normal rule of the game.

對我來說，我更喜歡在那些我確信如果我有所發現就會得到發展的國家進行探索，這是正常的遊戲規則。

Suriname?

蘇利南?

No, we have some exploration, but we are completely focused on -- we are completely focused.

不，我們進行了一些探索，但我們完全集中精力——我們完全集中精力。

By the way, I think we plan to drill a well, one well, in the Block 64, which is another block.

順便說一句，我想我們計劃在 64 區塊鑽一口井，一口井，這是另一個區塊。

We have two things, and in the way we discussed with the authorities, what we call the development area of

我們有兩件事，在我們與當局討論的方式中，我們稱之為發展領域

(inaudible)

（聽不清楚）

In fact, the development area is covering all our discoveries, all the trends, and it's within the PAC.

事實上，發展領域涵蓋了我們所有的發現、所有的趨勢，而且它都在 PAC 範圍內。

So if we want to explore, to appraise, we'll offset the cost on the production.

所以如果我們想要探索、評估，就會抵銷生產成本。

So this part, we have secured and we have some -- because I'm sure we'll have to come back on some of the discoveries we've done to better appraise, to reconnect, et cetera.

所以這一部分，我們已經確保了，而且我們有一些——因為我確信我們必須回顧我們已經做過的一些發現，以便更好地評估、重新連接等等。

So there is some potential.

因此，還是有潛力的。

And then we have another block where we are interested to explore.

然後我們還有另一個我們感興趣的值得探索的區塊。

We'll drill this year.

我們今年將進行演習。

So we didn't mention that.

所以我們沒有提到這一點。

We have taken also, by the way -- it's not in public, but two blocks in two licenses in Nigeria, the Niger Delta recently, in and around.

順便說一下，我們還取得了——雖然不是公開的，但最近在尼日利亞、尼日爾三角洲及其周邊地區取得了兩個許可證中的兩個區塊。

So it's a very -- Niger Delta.

所以這是一個非常——尼日爾三角洲。

In Nigeria, there was no exploration during 10 years.

在尼日利亞，10年來沒有進行任何勘探。

We managed to reopen the box, and it's one of the most prolific deltas in the world.

我們設法重新打開了這個盒子，它是世界上最豐富的三角洲之一。

So there are still things to be explored.

因此，還有一些事情有待探索。

So Suriname is more -- the Block 64 is not the same trend.

因此，蘇利南與 Block 64 的趨勢並不相同。

It's a more frontier exploration.

這是一次更加前沿的探索。

But then we have to come back on what we have already discovered and appraised.

但隨後我們必須回過頭來思考我們已經發現和評估的事物。

Matt Lofting?

馬特·洛廷？

Thanks for taking the questions.

感謝您回答這些問題。

Matt Lofting at JP.

JP 的 Matt Lofting。

Just two quick ones.

只需簡單兩點。

First, Patrick, I wanted to follow up on the comments you made earlier on trading, and just ask specifically on integrated LNG or gas trading, if you can share a sense of the contribution that you've embedded into 2025 cash flow and financial targets, given the comments you made earlier on the gas market, perhaps, for example, relative to 2024.

首先，帕特里克，我想跟進您之前對交易所發表的評論，並特別詢問關於綜合液化天然氣或天然氣交易的問題，鑑於您之前對天然氣市場所發表的評論，您是否可以分享您對 2025 年現金流和財務目標的貢獻，例如相對於 2024 年。

And then second, 35 gigawatts of renewable capacity in integrated power for this year strikes me that that's incredibly impressive delivery on a target that was set five years ago given the global backdrop over the course of the last five years.

其次，今年再生能源綜合發電容量達到 35 吉瓦，考慮到過去五年的全球背景，我認為這對五年前設定的目標來說是一個令人印象深刻的成績。

When you think forward though, for the second half of the decade, has the company's view on the pace and best sources of growth changed at all, given the inflation and supply chain challenges that the industry continues to see in some segments, at least, of renewable generation?

然而，當你展望未來，對於2020年的後半段，考慮到該行業至少在再生能源發電的某些領域繼續面臨的通貨膨脹和供應鏈挑戰，公司對成長速度和最佳成長來源的看法是否有所改變？

Thanks.

謝謝。

Okay.

好的。

In fact, the improvement you have going from $4.9 billion to a target of $6 billion in integrated LNG cash flow, I would say part of it will come from absolute prices, which are higher, but I would say consider that there is an improvement on the trading gas of $500 billion, coming back to levels which were more in line.

實際上，液化天然氣綜合現金流從 49 億美元提高到 60 億美元的目標，我想說，其中一部分將來自更高的絕對價格，但我想說，考慮到 5000 億美元的天然氣交易額有所改善，回到了更符合預期的水平。

And again, I say that under the eyes of Stephane, who is approving, so it's fine.

而且，我是在史蒂芬面前這麼說的，他表示贊同，所以沒問題。

He has to deliver, but that's the idea.

他必須實現這個目標，但這就是我們的想法。

So that's an improvement that we expect.

這是我們期待的改進。

Part will come from, I would say, the volumes, which are being developed.

我想說，部分內容將來自正在開發的內容。

We have a little more volume, but also part of it is trading back to more volatility.

我們的交易量稍微多了，但部分原因也導致交易波動性加大。

And again, what we observe on the market beginning of 2025 is giving us stress, but this should be achievable by our teams.

我們再次觀察到，2025 年初的市場狀況給我們帶來了壓力，但我們的團隊應該能夠實現這一目標。

Maybe we'll do more.

也許我們會做得更多。

We'll encourage them.

我們會鼓勵他們。

On the 35 gigawatts, okay.

關於 35 千兆瓦，好的。

We have a large pipeline of 70 gigawatts.

我們擁有 70 千兆瓦的大型管道。

It's the US, Brazil, India, Europe, the key markets where we think we can deploy.

我們認為我們可以部署的關鍵市場是美國、巴西、印度和歐洲。

My question for me is, what is more important is, again, a sizable business going to this 50 terawatt hour, 100 terawatt hour by 2030, more than 100.

我的問題是，更重要的是，到 2030 年，一個規模可觀的企業將發電量達到 50 太瓦時、100 太瓦時，甚至超過 100 太瓦時。

I think it's very important that we have a sizable business and we are on track, because we are investing $4 billion per year to develop it.

我認為擁有規模可觀的業務並且步入正軌非常重要，因為我們每年投資 40 億美元來發展它。

But again, renewable is a big part of it.

但同樣，再生能源是其中的重要組成部分。

We have this magic figure of 100 gigawatts.

我們有一個神奇的數字：100千兆瓦。

We have the pipeline.

我們有管道。

Do we want to develop all that?

我們想開發這一切嗎？

It will depend, of course, on the value of all that is coming.

當然，這將取決於所有即將發生的事情的價值。

There are permanent opportunities, and in fact, we can find a partner.

機會是永久的，事實上，我們可以找到合作夥伴。

By the way, honestly, the gross capacity for me, if I'm investing gross capacity in island, I will have a big number but not a lot of results, I can tell you.

順便說一句，老實說，對我來說，總容量，如果我在島上投資總容量，我會得到一個很大的數字，但不會有太多的結果，我可以告訴你。

Because it's running only 11% of the time.

因為它只運行了 11% 的時間。

Solar in the island makes volumes.

島上的太陽能發電量龐大。

It's not very expensive, but the result is not there.

雖然不是很貴，但是效果不行。

So be careful about the volume ID, in particular in the different markets.

因此要小心卷 ID，特別是在不同的市場。

I'm convinced there will be continued growth in the US, for sure.

我確信美國肯定會繼續成長。

And some big countries in Europe, like Germany and others, will be clear, where we have a good chance to continue to grow.

歐洲的一些大國，例如德國和其他國家，將會清楚，我們在哪裡有很大機會繼續成長。

So I'm optimistic that we'll have a segment which will produce more than 100 terawatt hours by 2030.

因此，我樂觀地認為，到 2030 年，我們的發電量將超過 100 太瓦時。

Renewable capacity, the gross one, let's see how it's going, knowing that we have also some partners.

再生能源容量，總量，讓我們看看它的進展情況，同時知道我們也有一些合作夥伴。

We are growing it.

我們正在發展它。

India will represent, I think, 15 gigawatts, 15 to 20 gigawatts, but all of them are not equal, I would say.

我認為印度將代表15千兆瓦、15至20千兆瓦，但我想說，它們並不全是平等的。

And that's the type of things.

這就是事情的類型。

So again, we will continue to invest in integrated power.

所以，我們將繼續對綜合電力進行投資。

We have this $4 billion per year as a matrix, which we will maintain.

我們每年有 40 億美元作為矩陣，我們會維持這個矩陣。

The way we split it between the -- I think the batteries, for example, will be more important in our mix than they were when we said we need more batteries.

我們將其分為——例如，我認為電池在我們的產品組合中比我們說需要更多電池時更重要。

It's quite clear to us.

我們對此非常清楚。

But battery is also a way to make to an end the profitability and the returns on renewables and gas plants.

但電池也是終止再生能源和天然氣工廠獲利能力和回報的一種方式。

But mix is moving, and we are adapting ourselves to these conditions.

但混合正在移動，我們正在適應這些條件。

Kim?

金？

Hi, thanks for taking my question.

你好，謝謝你回答我的問題。

Firstly, I wanted to ask a quick follow up on Yamal.

首先，我想快速詢問一下有關亞馬爾的問題。

In the past couple of months, the US and the EU have sanctioned a carrier shipping LNG from Yamal.

過去幾個月，美國和歐盟已經批准了一艘從亞馬爾運送液化天然氣的運輸船。

Is this affecting your ability to offtake cargoes from Yamal at all?

這是否會影響你們從亞馬爾出口貨物的能力？

Secondly, on US offshore wind, I think you said back in November that you're pausing your US offshore project called Attentive Energy.

其次，關於美國離岸風電，我記得您在 11 月就說過，您將暫停名為 Attentive Energy 的美國離岸風電專案。

You said that's a four-year pause.

你說那是四年的停頓。

So I'm just curious whether that's reflected in your low-carbon CapEx figure, and then just curious to hear your thoughts on your involvement in projects that are exposed to -- at the mercy of political winds that can shift every four years.

所以我只是好奇這是否反映在您的低碳資本支出數字中，然後我很好奇想聽聽您對參與那些受每四年就會變化的政治風向影響的項目的看法。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay, that's life.

好吧，這就是生活。

But the concession is for 50 years, to be clear.

但要明確的是，特許權有效期限是50年。

That means that yes, we don't spend.

這意味著，是的，我們不花錢。

By the way, the teams, we have a development team of 50 or 60 people in New York.

順便說一下，我們在紐約有一個由 50 或 60 人組成的開發團隊。

It will be down to five.

將降至 5 個。

So it's very active.

所以它非常活躍。

But I think it will come one day.

但我認為有一天它會到來。

It's a matter of -- let's be patient again on this one.

問題是——讓我們再次對這個問題保持耐心。

Again, a year of development in offshore wind is around $30 million per year, so it does not fundamentally change.

同樣，離岸風電每年的開發成本約為 3000 萬美元，因此不會發生根本性變化。

In the meantime, we have taken more license in Germany, where I don't expect this type of change of policy.

同時，我們在德國獲得了更多的許可，我並不認為德國會出現這種政策變化。

I think it will go through, even if there is a change of -- there will be a change of chancellor, but a change of government majority, I don't see a change on this strategy, on this policy.

我認為它會通過，即使總理會發生變化，但政府多數會發生變化，我認為這項戰略和政策不會改變。

Yamal, I'm not sure, I don't remember.

亞馬爾，我不確定，我不記得了。

Aurelien is the expert, or Nicolas.

Aurelien 是專家，或 Nicolas。

For me, I didn't see any impact on Yamal on any sanction.

對我來說，我沒有看到任何制裁對亞馬爾半島產生任何影響。

I've seen some impact on Arctic 2, for sure.

我確實看到了對北極 2 號的一些影響。

But by the way, Arctic 2, we don't invest, and we are not there.

但順便說一句，北極二號，我們沒有投資，我們也不在那裡。

On Yamal, I don't see -- Stephane?

關於亞馬爾，我沒看到──史蒂芬？

No, I don't know which cargo you are thinking to, but we have no impact on Yamal from our side.

不，我不知道您要考慮的是哪種貨物，但我們對亞馬爾半島沒有影響。

We didn't see it.

我們沒有看到。

Aurelien, do you want to take -- I mean, you can answer, but I don't have that in mind.

Aurelien，你想——我的意思是，你可以回答，但我沒有想到這一點。

I can tell you we monitor the Russian sanctions every two weeks, so we have a permanent session.

我可以告訴你，我們每兩週監測一次俄羅斯的製裁，所以我們有一個常設會議。

Indeed, I was going to say, for the last three years now, we've been monitoring every two weeks, so there are no sanctions.

事實上，我想說的是，在過去三年裡，我們每兩週進行一次監控，因此沒有製裁。

Every two weeks, we spend 30 minutes on this topic.

每兩週我們會花 30 分鐘討論這個主題。

There are sanctions affecting the Arctic LNG 2, and the value chain of Arctic LNG 2, the supply chain of Arctic LNG 2.

這些制裁影響了北極液化天然氣二號計畫、北極液化天然氣二號計畫的價值鏈和北極液化天然氣二號計畫的供應鏈。

That, yes, is correct.

是的，正確。

And actually, we've declared force majeure and taken the consequences of that, but not on Yamal, not at all, actually.

實際上，我們已經宣布不可抗力，並承擔了相應的後果，但這不包括亞馬爾半島，實際上根本沒有。

And the ships are not under sanctions for Yamal.

這些船隻並未受到亞馬爾半島制裁。

Do you have another question maybe?

您還有其他問題嗎？

No?

不？

It's okay.

沒關係。

So maybe we can take a question online.

因此也許我們可以在線解答問題。

We have one person, and we will go on the phone.

我們有一個人，我們會透過電話聯繫。

Hi.

你好。

It's Anish Kapadia from Palissy Advisors.

他是 Palissy Advisors 的 Anish Kapadia。

I had a question around your net debt and interest costs.

我對您的淨債務和利息成本有疑問。

When I look at the reported net debt versus when you add back some of the other items like the hybrids, the leases, the factoring of receivables, your net debt is then a lot higher, potentially $30 billion plus higher.

當我查看報告的淨債務並與添加一些其他項目（例如混合債務、租賃、應收帳款保理）進行比較時，淨債務要高得多，可能高達 300 億美元以上。

So just wondering if you're still -- when you think about all the other claims on the assets, you're still comfortable with that debt level increasing?

所以我只是想知道，當您考慮對資產的所有其他索賠時，您是否仍能接受債務水平的增加？

From an interest and financing costs perspective, can you give a sense of what the increase in financing costs is in 2025 in terms of the combination of traditional debt, hybrids, and the factoring of receivables, given you've been returning your debt at a higher level?

從利息和融資成本的角度來看，鑑於您一直在以更高的水平償還債務，您能否估算出 2025 年傳統債務、混合債務和應收帳款保理相結合的融資成本將增加多少？

Thanks.

謝謝。

Does this work?

這有用嗎？

Yes.

是的。

We benefited from very low-cost debts because most of the debt was fixed between the interest rate increased.

我們從非常低成本的債務中受益，因為大多數債務在利率上升期間是固定的。

To give you one figure, it's largely below 4% the cost of the debt we have at present time.

舉個例子來說，它遠低於我們目前債務成本的 4%。

And hybrid is something completely different.

而混合則完全不同。

We decided to make some liability management regarding hybrids.

我們決定對混合動力車進行一些責任管理。

But at present time, we consider that as a long-term component in our balance sheet.

但目前，我們認為這是我們資產負債表的長期組成部分。

So that's why we decided to renew -- make some liability management and to renew the tranche that is supposed to mature in February, in fact.

所以這就是我們決定續約的原因——進行一些負債管理，並續簽原本應該在二月到期的部分。

It's what we did during the first quarter.

這是我們在第一季所做的事情。

But, honestly, most of the debt is fixed, so we do not see any strong increase this year compared to the previous year.

但老實說，大多數債務都是固定的，因此與去年相比，今年的債務不會有任何大幅增加。

No, there is no increase in our planning for 2025, and I don't see an increase of the debt, except what we said about the potential impact of the $3 billion that we mentioned.

不，我們對 2025 年的規劃沒有增加，而且我也沒有看到債務增加，除了我們提到的 30 億美元的潛在影響之外。

Okay.

好的。

We have to go to maybe the phone.

也許我們得去打電話。

Paul Cheng?

鄭保羅？

Paul, go ahead, please.

保羅，請說。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Patrick, I think you haven't talked about the AI adoption.

派崔克，我認為你還沒有談到人工智慧的採用。

Do you believe that AI adoption will be an important factor for you in terms of driving down the cost improving efficiency over the next, say, two or three years and where you see is the biggest opportunity if that is the case and how much of your investment going to be.

您是否認為，在未來兩三年內，採用人工智慧對於降低成本、提高效率而言是一個重要因素？

The second question is -- sorry, just one second.

第二個問題是──抱歉，請稍等。

The second question is that is the US administration, I know you're saying that we should watch and see, but clearly that they become lesser friendly to some of the renewable -- I think ideologically that they are lesser friendly to the renewable energy and that they want to promote more drilling in the onshore and offshore Gulf of Mexico, supposedly that will make more leases available.

第二個問題是，美國政府，我知道你說我們應該拭目以待，但顯然他們對一些可再生能源變得不那麼友好了——我認為，從意識形態上講，他們對可再生能源不那麼友好了，他們想在墨西哥灣的陸上和近海促進更多的鑽探，據說這將提供更多的租約。

Does it change in the way that how you may want to allocate your capital, especially on the Gulf of Mexico, and also that for the US renewable power business?

這是否會改變您分配資本的方式，特別是在墨西哥灣，以及美國再生能源業務的方式？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay.

好的。

On AI, Vincent gave some hints.

關於人工智慧，Vincent給了一些暗示。

I don't know if Namita is there if she wants to have some compliment on it.

我不知道 Namita 是否在場，她是否想對此表示稱讚。

What I can tell you is that we are -- it's important.

我可以告訴你們的是，這非常重要。

We will establish in the organization of Namita, which is called OneTech.

我們將在Namita的組織中建立，該組織名為OneTech。

We will have a specialized line reporting to her about all these digital and AI, I would say, tools.

我們將安排專門的人員向她報告所有這些數位和人工智慧工具。

We strongly believe it's a way to -- not only for us to be more efficient.

我們堅信這是一種不僅能讓我們提高效率的方法。

Does it deliver in the next two, three years?

它能在未來兩到三年內實現嗎？

I'm not fully sure.

我不太確定。

It's programs.

這是程序。

We will develop what we call a digital plant program in order to digitally look more systematically.

我們將開發所謂的數位工廠程序，以便更有系統地進行數位化觀察。

We are thinking to make some strong investments.

我們正在考慮進行一些有力的投資。

We are discussing today with some companies in order to be able to connect all the real-time data, which are in our different plants, either old refineries or the FPSOs, in order to connect them and to develop some reverse modeling for advanced processing control.

今天，我們正在與一些公司進行討論，以便能夠連接我們不同工廠（無論是舊煉油廠還是 FPSO）中的所有即時數據，以便將它們連接起來，並為先進的加工控制開發一些逆向建模。

We strongly believe that there is a lot of things to win with advanced process control, the APC.

我們堅信，借助先進製程控制 (APC)，我們可以取得許多成果。

In our industry, we try to mimic the physical equation, which is difficult, and it's difficult to adapt.

在我們的行業中，我們試圖模仿物理方程，這很困難，而且很難適應。

There is obviously a very strong improvement potential with AI.

人工智慧顯然具有非常強大的進步潛力。

If you can make, based on data, reverse modeling, very accelerated and changing conditions, it's an obvious way.

如果你能根據資料、逆向建模、加速和改變條件，這是一個顯而易見的方法。

So these ones we have decided at the end of the year at the Executive Committee level to invest in this segment, to make these connections across the company and to invest including in terms of developing these, I would say, AI models.

因此，我們在年底的執行委員會層級決定對這一領域進行投資，在整個公司範圍內建立聯繫，並進行投資，包括開發這些人工智慧模型。

So that's clear.

這很清楚。

Does it deliver quickly?

送貨快嗎？

I hope so.

我希望如此。

But it's clearly on the top of the agenda, and the OneTech organization will be directly reporting to Namita as an individual line, and not today.

但這顯然是議程的首要任務，OneTech 組織將作為單獨的部門直接向 Namita 匯報，而不是今天。

It was in different segments, different divisions.

它屬於不同的部分，不同的部門。

We want to regroup and to have a clear leader and to drive this move to AI and digital.

我們希望重組，擁有一位明確的領導者，推動向人工智慧和數位化的轉型。

On the US, Gulf of Mexico has always been part of our agenda.

在美國，墨西哥灣一直是我們議程的一部分。

We mentioned this year -- I mentioned that there is two projects, Ballymore and Anchor, which are where we are contributive.

我們提到今年——我提到有兩個項目，Ballymore 和 Anchor，是我們做出貢獻的。

That's true that we decided to give up five years ago on one project because we didn't see the way to develop it in a profitable way.

確實，五年前我們決定放棄一個項目，因為我們看不到以盈利的方式來開發它。

And we are not operator.

而且我們不是運營商。

We became non-operator, but we can be -- I'm completely on the way to, I think that there is still some good exploration potential in the US, and we have some discussions with some potential partners to invest in Gulf of Mexico exploration.

我們成為了非運營商，但我們可以 - 我完全在路上，我認為美國仍然有一些良好的勘探潛力，我們正在與一些潛在合作夥伴進行投資墨西哥灣勘探的討論。

It's something on which we are ready, but more as non-operator than operator, because finding a lot of money to establish position is not really the best way to optimize our cost.

我們已經為此做好了準備，但我們更多是以非運營商的身份，而不是運營商的身份，因為花大筆錢來確立地位並不是優化成本的最佳方式。

On the renewable, okay.

關於可再生，好的。

I know, and I listen like you to the images or to the slogans.

我知道，我也像你們一樣聽這些圖像或口號。

Having said that, if I just remind you that during the first presidency of President Trump, the solar, for example, was still supported in terms of fiscal support, not at 30% or 40%, but 20%, 24%, which honestly, for me, is an acceptable level.

話雖如此，如果我只是提醒你一下，在川普總統的第一任總統任期內，例如太陽能，仍然得到財政支持，不是 30％ 或 40％，而是 20％、24％，老實說，對我來說，這是一個可以接受的水平。

And I think the debate at the Congress and the Senate between these congressmen and the administration will be interesting.

我認為國會和參議院中這些國會議員和政府之間的辯論將會很有趣。

Because again, in many of these states, which are also Republican states, they see some interest to develop these renewables.

因為在許多這些州（也是共和黨州）中，他們對開發這些再生能源有一定的興趣。

I remind you that the grid infrastructure in the US is not so strong, so it's a way to complement it.

我提醒你，美國的電網基礎設施不是那麼強大​​，所以這是一種補充方式。

I'm optimistic about the fact that it should not impair dramatically the way we envisage the future in the US, not only renewables, but gas-fired power plants, which of course are encouraged, or batteries.

我樂觀地認為，它不會嚴重損害我們對美國未來的設想，不僅是再生能源，當然也受到鼓勵的燃氣發電廠和電池。

I remind you that we made the investment in Clearway before the IRA.

我提醒你，我們在 IRA 之前就已經對 Clearway 進行了投資。

Then the IRA came, so it was a sort of additional profit to our investment, and the investment we've done in ClearWay is in line with our expectations, so we are fine.

然後 IRA 出現了，所以這對我們的投資來說是一種額外的利潤，而且我們對 ClearWay 的投資符合我們的預期，所以我們很好。

It was even better, big thanks to the IRA.

情況甚至更好，這要感謝愛爾蘭共和軍。

If we are back to our previous terms, it does not fundamentally change.

如果我們回到以前的條件，它並沒有根本性的改變。

So we see the development of this power.

因此我們看到了這種力量的發展。

But again, the world is not only renewable, it's integrated power, and the last investments we've done in these gas plants are really quite profitable.

但再說一次，世界不僅是可再生的，而且還有綜合能源，我們在這些天然氣工廠所做的最後投資確實非常有利可圖。

So there are ways to -- electricity demand, fundamentally, will grow.

因此，有辦法——從根本上來說，電力需求將會成長。

So the question is, do you meet this electricity demand in the future years?

那麼問題是，未來幾年你能滿足這個電力需求嗎？

And all these data centers, hyperscalers, they want that to have that tomorrow.

所有這些資料中心和超大規模資料中心都希望明天就能實現這一目標。

It will take a little more time.

這還需要一點時間。

So it's a good business when you have a strong demand.

因此，當你有強勁需求時，這就是一門好生意。

It's worth to continue to find ways to invest in it, just fundamentally.

從根本上來說，值得繼續尋找投資方法。

We have Henri there.

亨利在那裡。

Henri, and then we have Bertrand on the phone.

亨利，然後我們和伯特蘭通了電話。

Yes, hi, Patrick.

是的，你好，派崔克。

Thanks for the update.

感謝您的更新。

Just one question, going back to the organic CapEx guidance and the move from $18 billion to $17 billion.

只有一個問題，回到有機資本支出指引以及從 180 億美元到 170 億美元的轉變。

Because if we go back to the October presentation, you were also expecting $18 billion next year in 2026.

因為如果我們回顧十月的演講，你還預計明年（2026 年）的收入將達到 180 億美元。

I was just wondering to what extent the changes that you've put through for this year, if they are structural, and you can see again similar organic CapEx in 2026?

我只是想知道，您今年所做的改變在多大程度上是結構性的，您是否會在 2026 年再次看到類似的有機資本支出？

And whether the lower spending on some of the smaller projects you talked about sort of an impact maybe on some of the

你提到的一些小項目支出減少是否對一些

--

--

You have to wait for September.

你必須等到九月。

Year by year.

逐年。

It's a good question.

這是個好問題。

Again, you can take $17 billion to $18 billion if you want for '26 instead of $18 billion.

再說一遍，如果您願意的話，26 年您可以拿出 170 億美元到 180 億美元，而不是 180 億美元。

I'm not sure it changes fundamentally the attractiveness of the share of total energies, but it could help you.

我不確定它是否從根本上改變了總能量份額的吸引力，但它可以幫助你。

Okay, so we can take Bertrand's question online?

好的，那麼我們可以在線上回答 Bertrand 的問題嗎？

Yes, of course.

是的當然。

Bertrand, go ahead.

伯特蘭，請說。

Yes, hello.

是的，你好。

Two questions left on the LNG side.

關於液化天然氣方面還剩下兩個問題。

The first one, on your LNG strategy, the idea as you highlighted it in in October is to convert Henry Hub into brent when it comes to your LNG offtakes.

第一個問題，關於你們的液化天然氣戰略，正如你們 10 月所強調的那樣，你們的想法是在液化天然氣採購時將亨利港原油轉換成布蘭特原油。

At $3, Henry Hub and Brent, $80, about, it works perfectly.

亨利港和布倫特的價格分別約為 3 美元和 80 美元，運行完美。

But it works less so at $4, MBTU, Henry Hub; and brent, $70; and it does not work at all at $60.

但在 4 美元、MBTU、亨利中心時，其效果就差一些；布蘭特原油價格為 70 美元；而且售價 60 美元，根本不起作用。

My concern is not, obviously, for 2025, given current LNG dynamics and high spot LNG prices, but it's more beyond.

顯然，考慮到目前的液化天然氣動態和高昂的現貨液化天然氣價格，我擔心的不是2025年，而是更遠的未來。

How do you intend to mitigate an outcome where you will have much higher Henry Hub than you had anticipated?

您打算如何緩解亨利中心價格遠遠超出預期的局面？

And the second question is more very short term on the LNG.

第二個問題是關於液化天然氣的短期問題。

Last year at $7, $8 per MBTU, we saw a surge in India LNG spot demand, Chinese LNG spot demand.

去年，印度液化天然氣現貨需求和中國液化天然氣現貨需求分別在每 MBTU 7 美元、8 美元左右激增。

Now that we are at $14, $15 per MBTU, do you see a reverse impact and LNG demand destruction in Asia?

現在價格為每MBTU 14或15美元，您是否認為會出現負面影響以及亞洲的液化天然氣需求遭到破壞？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Again, we have a view on this market by 2027-2030.

再次，我們對 2027-2030 年的這個市場進行了展望。

The reality of this energy market is that there will be some increase of capacity of 100 million tonnes, so 30%.

這個能源市場的實際情況是，產能將增加1億噸，也就是30%。

It's a reality, and maybe it could drive the Henry Hub eye, but it will drive the energy price low.

這是現實，也許它會導致亨利港的眼光下降，但它會降低能源價格。

So the best protection is to move to brent.

因此，最好的保護措施是轉向布蘭特原油。

Because, again, on the oil, I would be surprised to see oil establishing at $50, $60 for long by the end of this decade.

因為，再次就石油價格而言，我很驚訝地看到，到本世紀末，石油價格將長期維持在每桶 50 美元、60 美元左右。

At $50 per barrel, you don't have a lot of shale oil producers investing.

當油價為每桶 50 美元時，不會有許多頁岩油生產商進行投資。

They are already disciplined at $70 or at $80, and the decline is 20% per year.

他們已經在 70 美元或 80 美元的水平上保持紀律，並且每年的降幅為 20%。

So I think the fundamental of all these oil markets is stronger than what could happen on the LNG 1.

因此我認為所有這些石油市場的基本面都比 LNG 1 可能出現的狀況還要強勁。

EV and Henry Hub is much higher.

EV 和 Henry Hub 要高得多。

The answer that we need to bring on the energy side is to produce more in the US, to have more US gas production.

在能源方面我們需要的答案是在美國生產更多的能源，增加美國的天然氣產量。

That's the best protection for me.

這對我來說是最好的保護。

That's why we have made two deals, and we continue.

這就是我們達成兩項協議並將繼續下去的原因。

And I answer to our friends that it's part of -- for me, fundamental.

我回答我們的朋友說，對我來說，這是根本的一部分。

We need to fill this gap in our portfolio to have more exposure to gas.

我們需要填補投資組合中的這一空白，以便更多地接觸天然氣。

Because to face a situation where you have exactly what I described, higher energy price and lower energy, that's clear.

因為面對我所描述的情況，能源價格上漲，能源減少，這是很明顯的。

So this one I agree, and we intend by continuing to do what we've done in 2025, continuing to stack some different opportunities in order to reach more or less 1.5 BCFD.

所以我同意這一點，我們打算繼續做我們在 2025 年所做的事情，繼續累積一些不同的機會，以達到或多或少 1.5 BCFD 的目標。

Demand restriction at higher prices in China and India.

中國和印度的價格上漲限制了需求。

I would say, the country which surprised me in 2024 is India.

我想說，2024 年令我感到驚訝的國家是印度。

In fact, India has increased its demand.

事實上，印度的需求已經增加。

I saw the figure this morning, 28 million tonnes in 2023, with a price which was not so low.

我今天早上看到了這個數字，2023年是2800萬噸，價格也沒有那麼低。

In fact, they are buying -- five years ago, I think the same answer would have said $5, $6.

事實上，他們正在購買——我想五年前同樣的答案會是 5 美元、6 美元。

Today they bought at $10, more or less, during the year, and an increase of demand.

如今，他們以每年約 10 美元的價格購買，需求量增加。

So India is investing in some gas infrastructure.

因此印度正在投資一些天然氣基礎設施。

What will be the reaction of

會有什麼反應

[$15, $16]?

[15美元，16美元]？

But again, $15, $16 maybe is for a year.

但是，15 美元、16 美元可能只是一年的費用。

Demand destruction?

需求破壞？

No.

不。

Cautiousness?

謹慎？

Yes.

是的。

And probably it will be a good incentive for these buyers to go again to brent, which I think is they are more confident and less volatile, in fact, from gas.

這或許會成為激勵這些買家再次選擇布蘭特原油的一個很好的動力，我認為，事實上，他們對天然氣更有信心，而且波動性更小。

Do you want to add something, Stephane, on this one?

史蒂芬，你想對此添加一些內容嗎？

No, as you just said, Patrick, India was very strong last year.

不，正如你剛才所說，帕特里克，印度去年表現非常強勁。

And so far, based on what I see from January, we don't see a sharp decline of India consumption.

到目前為止，根據我一月看到的情況，我們並沒有看到印度消費量急劇下降。

So we have to wait for a few months to see if at $16 starts or not.

因此我們必須等待幾個月才能知道 16 美元的價格是否開始生效。

But yet, that's not the case.

但事實並非如此。

They will be reactive if the price [came in at] '25.

如果價格達到 25 美元，他們就會做出反應。

Is it structural?

它是結構性的嗎？

My answer is no.

我的答案是「不」。

Any last question?

還有最後一個問題嗎？

Okay.

好的。

You raised your hand.

你舉手了。

You had a question.

您有一個問題。

I stopped you because Bertrand was coming.

我攔住你是因為伯特蘭要來。

So Lucas, if you want to ask your last question, will be the last one.

所以盧卡斯，如果你想問最後一個問題，這將是最後一個。

I've got to stand up.

我必須得站起來。

It was just a follow-up question.

這只是一個後續問題。

It was simply, why do you factor out of interest?

很簡單，為什麼要考慮利息呢？

Why do you use factoring as a process?

為什麼要使用分解這項流程？

What's the logic in terms of debt factoring?

債務保理的邏輯是什麼？

It was going back to Anish's question earlier.

這又回到了 Anish 之前的問題。

Was there a particular logic to $7 to $8 billion?

70億到80億美元有什麼特殊的邏輯嗎？

It's not a decision made by the holding level, corporate level.

這不是控股層面、公司層級所做的決定。

Business by business, we are a centralized organization, operational.

從業務角度而言，我們是一個集中式的組織，可以進行營運。

We just control, but it remains cheap.

我們只是控制，但它仍然很便宜。

If it's not cheap, we say no.

如果不便宜，我們就說不。

We control the cost.

我們控製成本。

Okay, any last words maybe, Patrick?

好的，派崔克，還有什麼話要說嗎？

No, thank you.

不，謝謝。

I think thank you for your attendance first.

我想首先感謝您的出席。

I don't know, Renaud loves to go higher and higher in London.

我不知道，雷諾喜歡在倫敦走得越來越高。

I don't know if there is a message for the stock price maybe.

我不知道是否有關於股票價格的資訊。

Yes, of course.

是的當然。

We should go higher and higher.

我們應該越走越高。

So I don't know if there is another one to visit next year.

所以我不知道明年是否還有一個可以參觀。

Personally, one of last year for me was a little better because I had the view.

就我個人而言，去年的一次經歷對我來說要好一些，因為我看到了風景。

This year, I had the view on tubes, on industries.

今年，我對管道、對產業有了一些看法。

But maybe there is a third one.

但也許還有第三個。

So again, thank you for having the time.

再次感謝您抽出時間。

I think, honestly, our case is quite simple.

我認為，說實話，我們的情況非常簡單。

We have -- and the year '24, this last quarter, I've reinforced all the fundamentals, and I don't think you would have a lot of surprises or negative ones in 2025 for our company.

我們已經—並且在 24 年，也就是最後一個季度，我已經強化了所有的基本面，我認為在 2025 年我們公司不會出現太多意外或負面消息。

Thank you.

謝謝。