Trinseo PLC (TSE) 2021 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Trinseo Fourth Quarter 2021 Financial Results Conference Call. We welcome the Trinseo management team: Frank Bozich, President and CEO; David Stasse, Executive Vice President and CFO; and Andy Myers, Director of Investor Relations.

早安，女士們、先生們，歡迎參加盛禧奧 2021 年第四季財務業績電話會議。我們歡迎盛禧奧管理團隊：Frank Bozich，總裁兼執行長； David Stasse，執行副總裁兼財務長；和投資者關係總監安迪‧邁爾斯 (Andy Myers)。

Today's conference call will include brief remarks by the management team, followed by a question-and-answer session. The company distributed its press release along with its presentation slides at close of market Tuesday, February 8. These documents are posted on the company's Investor Relations website and furnished on a Form 8-K filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. (Operator Instructions)

今天的電話會議將包括管理團隊的簡短講話，然後是問答環節。該公司在 2 月 8 日星期二收盤時發布了新聞稿及其簡報幻燈片。 （操作員說明）

I will now hand the call over to Andy Myers.

我現在將把電話轉給安迪·邁爾斯。

Thank you, Dee, and good morning, everyone. (Operator Instructions) After our prepared remarks, instructions will follow to participate in the question-and-answer session. Our disclosure rules and cautionary note on forward-looking statements are noted on Slide 2.

謝謝迪伊，大家早安。 （操作員指示）我們準備好發言後，將按照指示參加問答環節。我們的揭露規則和有關前瞻性陳述的警示說明請參閱投影片 2。

During this presentation, we may make certain forward-looking statements, including issuing guidance and describing our future expectations. We must caution you that actual results could differ materially from what is discussed, described or implied in these statements. Factors that could cause actual results to differ include, but are not limited to, risk factors set forth in Item 1A of our annual report on Form 10-K or in our other filings made with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The company undertakes no obligation to update or revise its forward-looking statements.

在本次演示中，我們可能會做出某些前瞻性陳述，包括發布指導和描述我們的未來期望。我們必須提醒您，實際結果可能與這些聲明中討論、描述或暗示的內容有重大差異。可能導致實際結果出現差異的因素包括但不限於我們 10-K 表格年度報告第 1A 項或我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中列出的風險因素。該公司不承擔更新或修改其前瞻性陳述的義務。

Today's presentation includes certain non-GAAP measurements. A reconciliation of these measurements to corresponding GAAP measures is provided in our earnings release and in the appendix of our investor presentation. A replay of the conference call and transcript will be archived on the company's Investor Relations website shortly following the conference call. The replay will be available until February 9, 2023.

今天的演示包括某些非 GAAP 衡量標準。我們的收益報告和投資者介紹的附錄中提供了這些衡量標準與相應公認會計原則衡量標準的對帳。電話會議的重播和文字記錄將在電話會議結束後不久存檔在公司的投資者關係網站上。重播將持續到 2023 年 2 月 9 日。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to Frank Bozich.

現在我想把電話轉給 Frank Bozich。

Thanks, Andy, and I'd like to welcome everyone who's listening in. 2021 was a great year for Trinseo as we achieved record profitability, including $440 million of net income and $729 million of adjusted EBITDA. And I'm very proud of everything we accomplished on our transformation journey toward becoming a specialty materials and sustainable solution provider.

謝謝安迪，我向所有收聽的人表示歡迎。 EBITDA。我對我們在成為特殊材料和永續解決方案提供者的轉型過程中所取得的一切感到非常自豪。

At the end of 2020, we announced the first major step in our transformation, the acquisition of our PMMA business, which was completed in May. To complement PMMA and further our transformation, we acquired the continuous cast sheet PMMA producer, Aristech Surfaces in September. We also completed the divestiture of our Synthetic Rubber business in December. And in early January, we began a formal process to divest our Styrenics business. As a result of these actions, our portfolio is shifting toward -- more toward that of a specialty material provider, providing solutions to higher value, higher growth applications.

2020年底，我們宣布了轉型的第一個重大步驟，即收購PMMA業務，該收購已於5月完成。為了補充 PMMA 並進一步推進轉型，我們在 9 月收購了連鑄片 PMMA 生產商 Aristech Surfaces。我們也於 12 月完成了合成橡膠業務的剝離。一月初，我們開始了剝離苯乙烯業務的正式程序。由於這些行動，我們的產品組合正在轉向——更多地轉向特種材料供應商，為更高價值、更高成長的應用提供解決方案。

The acquisitions have enabled us not only to increase our product offerings to our current customers in markets such as automotive, consumer products and construction, but also to expand into additional applications like wellness and sanitary. The financial benefits of the acquisitions, aside from being tied to products with higher margins and more stable earnings, are expected to earn more than $60 million of cost synergies, and numerous additional revenue synergies that we've identified.

這些收購不僅使我們能夠為汽車、消費品和建築等市場的現有客戶增加產品供應，而且還能夠擴展到健康和衛生等其他應用領域。除了與利潤率更高和收益更穩定的產品相關之外，收購的財務效益預計將帶來超過 6000 萬美元的成本協同效應，以及我們已經確定的大量額外收入協同效應。

On the sustainability side, in January of this year we completed our acquisition of Heathland BV, a leading collector and recycler of post-consumer and post-industrial waste in Europe. This aligns with both of our -- both our 2030 sustainability goals to increase our offering of sustainable products, and with our overall strategy of becoming a sustainable solution provider.

在永續發展方面，今年 1 月，我們完成了對 Heathland BV 的收購，Heathland BV 是歐洲領先的消費後和工業後廢棄物收集和回收商。這不僅符合我們增加永續產品供應的 2030 年永續發展目標，也符合我們成為永續解決方案提供者的整體策略。

One of the largest constraints of growing sales of sustainable products is access to recycled feedstocks. The Heathland acquisition will provide us with an increased and more secure supply of PMMA, polycarbonate, ABS, polystyrene and other thermoplastic waste to be recycled and processed into a wide range of products, including those that serve high-end applications like consumer electronics.

永續產品銷售成長的最大限制之一是取得回收原料。收購Heathland 將為我們提供更多、更安全的PMMA、聚碳酸酯、ABS、聚苯乙烯和其他熱塑性廢料的供應，這些廢料將被回收並加工成各種產品，包括那些服務於消費性電子產品等高階應用的產品。

Heathland is a great fit and the transaction has a lot of industrial logic, given that we were already their largest customer prior to the acquisition, making up more than 10% of their revenue in 2021.

Heathland 非常適合，而且這筆交易有很多產業邏輯，因為我們在收購之​​前已經是他們最大的客戶，佔他們 2021 年收入的 10% 以上。

We are also focusing our sales -- focusing on growing our sales of sustainable products organically. In 2021, our sales volume of post-consumer recycled polycarbonate products to consumer electronics market increased by more than 50% over prior year. Our recycled polystyrene products were used commercially for the first time in food contact applications, which provide the packaging industry with a viable, environmentally friendly product which delivers margins that are 2x to 3x that of standard grades.

我們也專注於我們的銷售—專注於有機地成長永續產品的銷售。 2021年，我們向消費性電子市場銷售的消費後再生聚碳酸酯產品銷量比上年增長50%以上。我們的再生聚苯乙烯產品首次在食品接觸應用中進行商業化使用，為包裝行業提供了可行的環保產品，其利潤是標準等級的 2 至 3 倍。

In addition, to further the use of recycled polystyrene, we are progressing on our polystyrene recycling plant in Tessenderlo, Belgium, which should be operational by 2023.

此外，為了進一步利用再生聚苯乙烯，我們正在比利時泰森德洛建造聚苯乙烯回收工廠，該工廠將於 2023 年投入營運。

From a business operations standpoint, 2021 was a challenging year, not just for Trinseo, but I'd say for the chemical industry in general. Numerous external factors ranging from weather events to COVID-19 created logistical challenges and tightness in materials, freight and labor markets. I'm extremely proud of the efforts our people made to address these obstacles in order to deliver our high-quality products to our customers, especially while achieving yet another year of stellar EHS performance. 73% of eligible sites in the company received our Triple Zero award, meaning those sites experienced no injuries, spills or process safety incidents. As impressive as that number is, we continue to raise the bar we've set for ourselves, and we'll attempt to improve our EHS performance in 2022.

從業務運作的角度來看，2021 年是充滿挑戰的一年，不僅對盛禧奧來說，而且對整個化學產業來說也是如此。從天氣事件到 COVID-19 等眾多外部因素造成了物流挑戰以及材料、貨運和勞動力市場的緊張。我對我們的員工為解決這些障礙所做的努力感到非常自豪，以便為客戶提供高品質的產品，特別是在又一年實現出色的 EHS 績效的同時。該公司 73% 的符合條件的工廠獲得了「三零」獎，這意味著這些工廠沒有發生傷害、洩漏或製程安全事故。儘管這個數字令人印象深刻，但我們將繼續提高為自己設定的標準，並努力在 2022 年提高 EHS 績效。

Now I'm going to turn the call over to Dave, who will provide more color on our record financial performance.

現在我要把電話轉給戴夫，他將為我們創紀錄的財務表現提供更多資訊。

Thanks, Frank. I'd like to start by talking about the fourth quarter, which despite some unexpected headwinds, still delivered healthy earnings and very strong cash generation. We were encouraged by the continuation of robust demand for many of our products. And that strong demand environment allowed us to maintain healthy margins in ABS, polycarbonate and polystyrene.

謝謝，弗蘭克。我想先談談第四季度，儘管存在一些意想不到的阻力，但仍然實現了健康的利潤和非常強勁的現金產生。我們的許多產品的持續強勁需求令我們感到鼓舞。強勁的需求環境使我們能夠在 ABS、聚碳酸酯和聚苯乙烯領域保持健康的利潤率。

Fourth quarter earnings were impacted by 2 significant and unexpected events -- headwinds. The first was a sharp and unprecedented increase in European natural gas prices late in the quarter, which impacted the quarter by $30 million. About half of this was in Engineered Materials, and the remaining half was primarily in Feedstocks. The second headwind was from an unplanned outage at our Terneuzen styrene plant, which was caused by an upstream force majeure. This impacted results by about $20 million, mostly in Feedstocks.

第四季收益受到兩個重大且意外事件的影響——逆風。首先是歐洲天然氣價格在本季末出現前所未有的大幅上漲，為本季帶來了 3,000 萬美元的影響。其中約一半是工程材料，剩下的一半主要是原料。第二個不利因素是我們的泰爾訥曾苯乙烯工廠意外停電，這是上游不可抗力造成的。這對業績產生了約 2000 萬美元的影響，主要是原料方面的影響。

Adjusted EBITDA in our Engineered Materials segment was about $25 million lower than expected with $15 million, as I just mentioned, from natural gas costs and with the remainder from higher raw materials and freight costs. While we did take pricing actions in the fourth quarter, they did not cover the extreme pace and steepness of the cost increases.

正如我剛才提到的，我們的工程材料部門調整後的 EBITDA 比預期低約 2500 萬美元，其中 1500 萬美元來自天然氣成本，其餘來自較高的原材料和貨運成本。雖然我們確實在第四季度採取了定價行動，但它們並未涵蓋成本成長的極端速度和陡峭程度。

Looking ahead to the first quarter, we believe that the pricing actions that we've taken will cover what is still very high natural gas costs in Europe, and that this will be the main driver for sequential earnings improvement in the segment.

展望第一季度，我們相信我們採取的定價行動將涵蓋歐洲仍然非常高的天然氣成本，這將成為該領域盈利連續改善的主要推動力。

For the full year, we delivered record net income and adjusted EBITDA. Net income from continuing operations was $280 million, and adjusted EBITDA was $729 million. We also generated $453 million of cash from operations and free cash flow of $329 million. The combination of high earnings and strong cash generation led to substantial deleveraging, as we ended the year with net leverage in the low 2x range pro forma for the full year impact of the acquired and divested businesses. Given this improvement in the balance sheet, and our confidence in continued strong cash generation, we made the decisions in the fourth quarter to increase our quarterly dividend from $0.08 to $0.32 per share and to reinstate our share repurchase program.

全年，我們實現了創紀錄的淨利潤和調整後 EBITDA。持續經營淨利為 2.8 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 7.29 億美元。我們也從營運中產生了 4.53 億美元的現金，以及 3.29 億美元的自由現金流。高收益和強勁現金產生的結合導致了大幅去槓桿化，因為我們在年底時淨槓桿率處於較低的 2 倍範圍內，預計收購和剝離業務對全年的影響。鑑於資產負債表的改善以及我們對持續強勁現金產生的信心，我們在第四季度決定將季度股息從每股 0.08 美元增加到 0.32 美元，並恢復我們的股票回購計畫。

Now I'll turn the call over to Frank to walk through our outlook for 2022.

現在我將把電話轉給 Frank，讓他詳細介紹我們對 2022 年的展望。

Thanks, Dave. Looking ahead to the first quarter, we expect earnings to be similar to the prior year based on continued demand strength for most of our products and less impact from the rising higher costs that hindered the fourth quarter earnings. For example, natural gas prices in Europe have declined from the fourth quarter. And even though the styrene production outage in Terneuzen has persisted into February, we've had more time to manage plant costs and to procure materials to more effectively handle the downtime. So while we expect our first quarter results to be similar to the prior year, there should be an improvement in the quality of our earnings as the more specialty side of our portfolio in Engineered Materials replaces the spike in earnings that occurred in Q1 2021 on the commodity side of our business in Feedstocks.

謝謝，戴夫。展望第一季度，我們預計收益將與去年持平，因為我們大多數產品的需求持續強勁，成本上升對第四季度收益的影響較小。例如，歐洲天然氣價格較第四季下降。儘管泰爾訥曾的苯乙烯生產中斷一直持續到二月份，但我們有更多的時間來管理工廠成本並採購材料，以更有效地處理停工時間。因此，雖然我們預計第一季的業績將與去年相似，但隨著我們工程材料投資組合中更專業的部分取代了 2021 年第一季度的盈利激增，我們的盈利質量應該會有所改善。的原料業務的商品方面。

Over the full year, we're expecting net income of $294 million to $332 million, with adjusted EBITDA of $700 million to $750 million. This outlook is based on similar underlying demand conditions as 2021, including continued constraints in automotive from chip shortages, and strength in construction, consumer electronics and appliance markets.

我們預計全年淨利潤為 2.94 億美元至 3.32 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 7 億美元至 7.5 億美元。這一前景基於與 2021 年類似的基本需求狀況，包括晶片短缺對汽車行業的持續限制，以及建築、消費性電子和家電市場的強勁。

The last 2 years have reinforced the fact that world and geopolitical events can quickly change business conditions. But we're confident in this earnings range based on the robust demand we're seeing for our products, the additional earnings and synergies from our acquisitions and the proven ability of our teams to overcome logistical hurdles and to innovate to provide customers with unique product solutions.

過去兩年強化了這樣一個事實：世界和地緣政治事件可以迅速改變商業狀況。但我們對這一盈利範圍充滿信心，因為我們看到對我們產品的強勁需求、收購帶來的額外收益和協同效應，以及我們團隊克服物流障礙和創新為客戶提供獨特產品的經過驗證的能力解決方案。

We expect 2022 to be another year of solid cash generation as well, with expected cash from operations of $530 million to $580 million, and free cash flow of $350 million to $400 million, after capital spending of $180 million. That CapEx number is higher than our historical run rate due to approximately $50 million for our ERP implementation, which we expect to result in at least $25 million of run rate savings and $20 million of CapEx for our manufacturing DCS upgrades. Even with this higher capital spending level, we're anticipating robust cash generation, which we plan to deploy in a mix of M&A and growth projects in line with our transformation strategy, while continuing to return cash to our shareholders.

我們預計 2022 年也將是現金產生穩健的一年，在資本支出 1.8 億美元之後，預計營運現金為 5.3 億至 5.8 億美元，自由現金流為 3.5 億至 4 億美元。該資本支出數字高於我們的歷史運行率，因為我們的ERP 實施約為5000 萬美元，我們預計這將節省至少2500 萬美元的運行率，並為我們的製造DCS 升級節省2000 萬美元的資本支出。即使資本支出水準較高，我們仍預期將產生強勁的現金產生，我們計劃根據我們的轉型策略將其部署在併購和成長項目中，同時繼續向股東返還現金。

It's an exciting time for Trinseo, as we continue our transformation strategy and move Trinseo down the path of becoming a specialty materials and sustainable solution provider.

對於盛禧奧 (Trinseo) 來說，這是一個令人興奮的時刻，因為我們將繼續實施轉型策略，推動盛禧奧 (Trinseo) 走上成為特種材料和永續解決方案提供者的道路。

Thank you, and we're happy to take any questions.

謝謝您，我們很樂意回答任何問題。

(Operator Instructions) Your first question comes from the line of Frank Mitsch of Fermium Research.

（操作員說明）您的第一個問題來自 Fermium Research 的 Frank Mitsch。

I am curious in terms of -- I know that you just recently started the strategic process on Styrenics, is there anything that you can offer in terms of potential timing? And any thoughts that you could provide us there, that would be helpful.

我很好奇——我知道你們最近剛開始苯乙烯的策略流程，在潛在的時機方面你們能提供什麼嗎？您可以向我們提供的任何想法都會有所幫助。

Yes. Thanks, Frank. Yes. I would just say that consistent with what I said on the last call when we announced our intention to start the process, we anticipated that we would see good interest from sort of 3 classes of buyers. Those are -- which were strategics that are looking to generate synergies, regional players that would look to get greater exposure in the North America and Europe as well as financial sponsors who would be interested in executing a roll-up strategy and looking for a high cash on cash return.

是的。謝謝，弗蘭克。是的。我只想說，與我在上次電話會議上宣布啟動這項流程時所說的一致，我們預計會看到三類買家的濃厚興趣。這些是——希望產生協同效應的策略、希望在北美和歐洲獲得更大曝光度的區域參與者，以及有興趣執行匯總策略並尋求高收益的金融贊助商。

And I would say what we're seeing is very consistent with that, and we feel good about the process. And we think we should be able to give you updates in the coming quarters on where -- the exact timing, but we feel very good about where we are right now.

我想說的是，我們所看到的與此非常一致，我們對這個過程感覺良好。我們認為我們應該能夠在未來幾個季度向您提供具體時間的最新信息，但我們對目前的情況感到非常滿意。

That's very helpful. And you just indicated your very strong free cash flow expectation, which will -- you said M&A and -- but you also indicated returning cash to shareholders. You obviously started out with a very strong $48 million buyback in fourth quarter. Any sense as to what we should be anticipating in terms of a pace of buybacks in 2022?

這非常有幫助。您剛剛表示您非常強烈的自由現金流預期，這將 - 您說併購 - 但您也表示向股東返還現金。顯然，您在第四季度開始了 4800 萬美元的強勁回購。對於 2022 年的回購速度，我們該有何預期？

Yes, Frank, this is Dave. I think, look, when we put this buyback program in place, our intention was to make it opportunistic in nature and buy when we think we're undervalued. And I think we'll continue -- it will continue to run that way for the first quarter. I would probably expect a similar number to what we did in fourth quarter. And then for future quarters I think, as I said, it's going to be opportunistic in nature. And buying back heavier, obviously, when we're trading at lower levels.

是的，法蘭克，這是戴夫。我認為，當我們實施這個回購計劃時，我們的目的是使其本質上是機會主義的，並在我們認為我們被低估時購買。我認為我們會繼續——第一季將繼續這樣運行。我可能預計與第四季度的數字類似。然後，對於未來幾個季度，我認為，正如我所說，這本質上將是機會主義的。顯然，當我們交易價格較低時，我們會加強回購力度。

Your next question comes from the line of Hassan Ahmed of Alembic Global Advisors.

您的下一個問題來自 Alembic Global Advisors 的 Hassan Ahmed。

Frank and Dave, a question around the margins within Engineered Materials. Obviously, you guys are doing a good job in boosting the overall margin profile of the company. I just noticed, obviously, that it's a bit of a tricky quarter with all of the sort of raw material inflation that we saw, but the margins were sort of below 10%. I'm just trying to sort of figure out again what the sustainable sort of margin level within that segment should be. And being a specialty sort of business, how quickly should we expect a boost in these margins?

法蘭克和戴夫，這是一個關於工程材料領域邊緣的問題。顯然，你們在提高公司整體利潤率方面做得很好。我只是注意到，顯然，這是一個有點棘手的季度，我們看到了各種原材料通膨，但利潤率略低於 10%。我只是想再次弄清楚該細分市場中可持續的利潤水平應該是多少。作為一種專業類型的企業，我們應該期望多快的時間來提高這些利潤？

Yes. So let me take that great question. And as Dave said, we -- in Q4, if you were looking at normalizing the Q4 margin, you'd add back $25 million of EBITDA. And that is split between $15 million in gas -- due to the gas spike and about $10 million due to rapidly rising raw materials and freight.

是的。那麼就讓我來回答這個好問題。正如戴夫所說，我們在第四季度，如果你考慮使第四季度的利潤率正常化，你會增加 2500 萬美元的 EBITDA。其中 1500 萬美元用於天然氣（由於天然氣價格上漲），而約 1000 萬美元則由於原材料和運費快速上漲。

Let me spend a minute to explain sort of our pricing mechanism and also what we saw with raw materials in the quarter. And I think that will give you some context for what we experienced and why it was depressed in the quarter. When we -- everybody is aware of what happened in natural gas, and I don't think I need to spend any more time on that. But what we also saw in the quarter was that, as gas prices spiked up, many of our raw material suppliers cut back production because they couldn't profitably produce.

讓我花一點時間解釋一下我們的定價機制以及我們在本季對原材料的看法。我認為這將為您提供一些背景信息，了解我們所經歷的事情以及本季度經濟低迷的原因。當我們——每個人都知道天然氣發生的事情時，我認為我不需要再花時間在這上面。但我們在本季也看到，隨著天然氣價格飆升，我們的許多原料供應商削減了產量，因為他們無法獲利。

And so we -- to fulfill demand and continue running, we were required to go onto the spot market and buy materials at really elevated prices and with higher logistics costs to keep the plants running at optimal levels. And so because we -- so that impacted the business on the raw material side. Now I'd say it's been normalized since that spike up in the second half of the quarter.

因此，為了滿足需求並繼續運行，我們需要進入現貨市場，以非常高的價格和更高的物流成本購買材料，以保持工廠以最佳水平運行。因為我們——所以這影響了原料方面的業務。現在我想說，自從本季下半年飆升以來，它已經正常化。

As we mentioned on previous calls, the pricing mechanism we have in Engineered Materials is not formula-based pricing. We have a value-based pricing system where we provide monthly and quarterly pricing to our clients. So if during that period, price -- costs dramatically spike, like they did in an unprecedented way, we'll have a pricing lag. And so I would expect that in Q1, we won't see the impact of that headwind, based on the pricing actions that we put in place. And I would tell you that January is consistent with that view.

正如我們在先前的電話會議中所提到的，我們在工程材料領域的定價機制並不是基於公式的定價。我們有一個基於價值的定價系統，我們為客戶提供每月和每季的定價。因此，如果在此期間，價格成本急劇上升，就像他們以前所未有的方式所做的那樣，我們將出現定價滯後。因此，根據我們採取的定價行動，我預計在第一季度，我們不會看到這種逆風的影響。我想告訴你，一月份的情況與這種觀點是一致的。

Very helpful. Very helpful. And just sticking to the raws, more on the guidance side of things. The $700 million to $750 million EBITDA guidance for 2022 that you guys have given, what sort of European gas pricing regime is that factoring in? And I guess where I'm going with that question is, you alluded to the pricing lag. I mean, could we be in a situation where if the whole European gas situation does get rectified, that because of that lag, you could actually see sort of outsized margins on the way down if gas comes down?

非常有幫助。非常有幫助。並且只是堅持原始，更多地在指導方面。你們給的 2022 年 7 億至 7.5 億美元 EBITDA 指導，其中考慮了什麼樣的歐洲天然氣定價制度？我想我要回答這個問題的是，你提到了定價滯後。我的意思是，如果整個歐洲天然氣情況確實得到糾正，我們是否會遇到這樣的情況：由於這種滯後，如果天然氣價格下降，你實際上可能會看到大幅下降的利潤？

So there's 2 parts to the question. So the first question is that what -- our current outlook reflects the current natural gas price. So that range is reflective of the current environment.

所以這個問題有兩個部分。因此，第一個問題是，我們目前的前景反映了當前的天然氣價格。所以這個範圍反映了目前的環境。

I would say that if costs go down, again, we don't have it -- in most -- in the formula-based pricing part of our businesses it will continue to flow through the P&L, irrespective of the volatility because of the pricing formulas. However, in EM, as we just said, we have a structural price in EM, it's based on market and value pricing. So we would see improvement in a declining cost environment.

我想說的是，如果成本再次下降，我們在大多數業務中基於公式的定價部分中都沒有成本，它將繼續流經損益表，無論定價造成的波動如何公式。然而，在新興市場，正如我們剛才所說，我們在新興市場有一個結構性價格，它是基於市場和價值定價。因此，我們會看到成本下降的環境有所改善。

Your next question comes from the line of David Begleiter of Deutsche Bank.

你的下一個問題來自德意志銀行的大衛貝格萊特。

Frank and Dave, just looking at the Heathland acquisition, how does that fit into your overall recycling strategy? And how big can right recycling be as a portion of the business down the road, 3 to 5 years, maybe even longer?

弗蘭克和戴夫，看看對 Heathland 的收購，這與你們的整體回收策略有何關係？未來 3 到 5 年，甚至更長時間，正確的回收作為業務的一部分可以有多大？

Yes. David, yes, so Heathland is really important to us, and we're excited about it, because for us to go to our markets and many of our end customers with a sustainable solution, recycled solution, we have to be able to guarantee that we can have a steady and consistent stream of recycled feedstock. And so we believe that securing that within Trinseo and being able to own the manufacturing or recycling processes is the best way for us to ensure that we have -- and guarantee we have that ability. So in the future, we would see significant growth from this, granted on a smaller base. But we would expect to see, by 2030, our sustainability goal [is] 30% of our portfolio to be sustainably advantaged.

是的。大衛，是的，所以Heathland 對我們來說非常重要，我們對此感到興奮，因為對我們來說，要向我們的市場和許多最終客戶提供可持續的解決方案、回收的解決方案，我們必須能夠確保我們可以擁有穩定、持續的回收原料流。因此，我們相信，在盛禧奧內部確保這一點並能夠擁有製造或回收流程是我們確保我們擁有這種能力的最佳方式。因此，在未來，我們將看到在較小基礎上的顯著成長。但我們預計，到 2030 年，我們的永續發展目標是我們投資組合的 30% 具有永續優勢。

So we see it -- that would be a target by 2030, and we expect that the financial benefits would accrue with that because we're seeing that the margins on sustainable solutions to be significantly higher. In some cases, orders of magnitude, multiples higher; in other cases 20% to 30% higher than petrochemical-based products.

所以我們看到了——這將是到 2030 年的目標，我們預計財務收益將隨之增加，因為我們看到可持續解決方案的利潤將顯著提高。在某些情況下，數量級、倍數更高；在其他情況下，比石化產品高 20% 至 30%。

Very good. And Dave, just on CapEx, looking at the new Trinseo ex Styrenics, how should we think about maintenance CapEx as well as growth CapEx for the new portfolio?

非常好。戴夫（Dave），就資本支出而言，看看新的Trinseo ex Styrenics，我們應該如何考慮新投資組合的維護資本支出以及成長資本支出？

Yes. I think -- well, if we look at it in terms of 2022, including -- the portfolio, including Styrenics, maintenance CapEx is about $70 million. If you take Styrenics out of that, it's probably -- it's between $50 million and $60 million is maintenance CapEx for the go-forward portfolio.

是的。我認為，如果我們從 2022 年的角度來看，包括苯乙烯在內的投資組合，維護資本支出約為 7,000 萬美元。如果您將苯乙烯從中剔除，那麼未來投資組合的維護資本支出可能在 5,000 萬至 6,000 萬美元之間。

So the other thing I'd point out as it relates to CapEx, Dave, as Frank mentioned, and you've been covering us a while. So you know about this multiyear project we have with the distributed control software upgrades that spent -- that we've been spending for several years now. 2023 will be the last year. So this year, we're spending $25 million on that project, next year it will be $10 million, and then it will be over.

因此，我要指出的另一件事與資本支出有關，戴夫，正如弗蘭克所提到的，你已經報道我們一段時間了。所以你知道我們的分散式控制軟體升級這個多年專案——我們已經花了好幾年了。 2023年將是最後一年。今年，我們在這個項目上花費了 2500 萬美元，明年將花費 1000 萬美元，然後就結束了。

The other big spend we have this year is for our SAP install, which is $50 million this year, $25 million next year and then that goes to 0 after that. So those are kind of discrete items, I would say, that have -- we've been spending on this year and a lesser amount next year, that will go away after that.

今年我們的另一個大支出是 SAP 安裝，今年為 5000 萬美元，明年為 2500 萬美元，之後就變成了 0。所以我想說，這些都是一些離散的項目，我們今年一直在支出，明年的支出會減少，之後就會消失。

Now having said all that, we have a very robust pipeline, I would say, of growth projects we've identified around the new portfolio and the acquisitions that we've made. So I think it's fair to say, I'm not ready to give guidance on '23 CapEx, obviously, but it is fair to say that while we'll have some of these kind of more structural CapEx items leaving, there will be, I think, a healthy spend on growth projects.

話雖如此，我想說的是，我們有一個非常強大的管道，我們圍繞著新的投資組合和我們所做的收購確定了成長項目。因此，我認為可以公平地說，顯然，我還沒有準備好就「23 資本支出」提供指導，但可以公平地說，雖然我們將保留一些此類更具結構性的資本支出項目，但將會有，我認為，在成長項目上的支出是健康的。

Your next question comes from the line of Eric Petrie of Citi.

你的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的艾瑞克‧皮特里（Eric Petrie）。

Just going back to Engineered Materials, I think when you did the acquisitions, both businesses had low 20% EBITDA margins, excluding the natural gas and raw materials. Second half '21, you were in the mid-teens. So can you talk about the track back to that 20%-plus level?

回到工程材料，我認為當你進行收購時，這兩家公司的 EBITDA 利潤率都很低，只有 20%（不包括天然氣和原材料）。 21 年下半年，你才十幾歲。那麼您能談談回到 20% 以上水準的情況嗎？

Sure. As I explained earlier, in the second half of the year, we had -- I don't want to repeat the dialogue on the Q4 headwinds, but what I would also point to is 2 other market factors that impacted Engineered Materials relative to the historical run rate. And that is that the chip shortage affecting automotive. We will -- our current forecast is that the automotive volumes will be lower than the historical build rate. And so that's a headwind for EM.

當然。正如我之前解釋的那樣，在今年下半年，我們——我不想重複有關第四季度逆風的對話，但我還想指出的是，相對於工程材料，還有另外兩個影響工程材料的市場因素。那就是影響汽車的晶片短缺。我們目前的預測是，汽車產量將低於歷史產量。所以這對新興市場來說是一個阻力。

The other thing that the -- and so a return to normal in automotive builds when the chip shortage fully resolves itself will be a help. And then the other impact that we are seeing is that the logistics cost out of China has reduced some of the demand for some of the products that we were -- solutions we were providing into China, because the freight rates out of China made them less competitive in their export business. So we've seen depressed sales into some of our wellness -- bath and wellness customers in China, and that's been a bit of a headwind. So those 2 factors are -- plus the energy and raw material spike that we saw in Q4 get us back to that run rate.

當晶片短缺完全解決時，汽車行業恢復正常的另一件事將是有幫助的。然後，我們看到的另一個影響是，來自中國的物流成本減少了對我們向中國提供的某些產品（我們向中國提供的解決方案）的部分需求，因為來自中國的運費降低了它們的需求。因此，我們看到中國的一些健康沐浴和健康客戶的銷售量低迷，這有點不利。因此，這兩個因素加上我們在第四季度看到的能源和原材料飆升使我們回到了運行速度。

And secondly, in terms of ABS and polycarbonate prices, would you say 2022 earnings in Base Plastics -- how would you directionally point that compared to '21?

其次，就 ABS 和聚碳酸酯價格而言，您認為 2022 年基礎塑膠的收益如何——與 21 年相比，您如何看待這一點？

Yes. And so I would say that it's slightly lower than 2021. And that's really on the relaxation of a lot of the supply chain constraints that occurred during 2021, where we saw earnings spike up. And I just point to things like the Suez blockage that prevented materials from going back and forth between Europe and Asia, also the freeze in Texas affected those markets. So I think there was a bit of an earnings spike that occurred early in the year in those 2 businesses that we don't see repeating itself in our current forecast, but we see very healthy end demand. So that's the comment -- color I would give you on those 2 materials.

是的。因此，我想說，這一數字略低於 2021 年。我只是指出蘇伊士運河的封鎖阻止了材料在歐洲和亞洲之間往返，德克薩斯州的凍結也影響了這些市場。因此，我認為這兩項業務在今年年初出現了一些盈利飆升，我們在當前的預測中沒有看到這種情況重演，但我們看到了非常健康的最終需求。這就是我對這兩種材料的評論——顏色。

Your next question comes from the line of Matthew Blair of Tudor, Pickering and Holt.

你的下一個問題來自都鐸、皮克林和霍爾特的馬修布萊爾。

I was hoping you could discuss dynamics in the PMMA market a little bit more. Some of the commentary seems a little bearish, just talking about demand headwinds from autos and elevated raw material pricing. Would you agree with that? And I guess where would you -- if you're thinking about PMMA in the cycle, would you say earnings are kind of at peak levels? Or maybe mid-cycle? Where does that stack up?

我希望您能多討論一下 PMMA 市場的動態。有些評論似乎有點悲觀，只是談論汽車需求逆風和原物料價格上漲。你同意嗎？我想，如果您考慮週期中的 PMMA，您會說收益處於峰值水平嗎？或者也許是周期中期？這在哪裡堆積起來？

So what I would tell you is I don't see that there's a cycle at all for PMMA. And it's really where you're selling a solution, you're winning business not by supply and demand dynamics and -- but really by bringing a solution forward, and to a customer that allows you to win a platform. So I do think that we have some unusual impacts that occurred in the past 2 quarters, but I don't -- I would not at all characterize our outlook as bearish. In fact, what -- and let me give you a little bit more color on this. One of the big opportunities we see for PMMA is our ability to substitute alternative materials with PMMA or PMMA blends or PMMA constructions.

所以我要告訴你的是，我不認為 PMMA 有循環。這實際上是你銷售解決方案的地方，你不是透過供需動態來贏得業務，而是透過向前推進解決方案，並向客戶提供讓你贏得平台的方式來贏得業務。因此，我確實認為過去兩個季度發生了一些不尋常的影響，但我不認為——我根本不會將我們的前景描述為悲觀。事實上，什麼——讓我給你更多的解釋。我們看到 PMMA 的巨大機會之一是我們能夠用 PMMA 或 PMMA 混合物或 PMMA 結構取代替代材料。

And so in -- I would give you 3 examples. We've demonstrated the ability to replace metal constructions with PMMA in certain applications, like in automotive and appliance. We've also demonstrated -- and by doing that replaced painting. There's a huge value proposition for that type of application. We can also replace painted and coated parts in building and construction applications because of the coloring and UV stability of PMMA laminates. And the third area, and very exciting, is that we can replace fiberglass, glass-reinforced polyester constructions that also are gel-coated, in transportation as well as bath and wellness applications.

因此，我會給你舉 3 個例子。我們已經展示了在某些應用（例如汽車和電器）中用 PMMA 取代金屬結構的能力。我們也進行了演示——並通過這樣做取代了繪畫。此類應用程式具有巨大的價值主張。由於 PMMA 層壓板的著色和紫外線穩定性，我們還可以替換建築和施工應用中的塗漆和塗層部件。第三個領域非常令人興奮，那就是我們可以在交通以及沐浴和健康應用中取代同樣帶有凝膠塗層的玻璃纖維、玻璃增強聚酯結構。

So we have the ability with PMMA in our portfolio to expand the total addressable market for Trinseo, so I'm not bullish (sic) [bearish] at all. I'm very excited about the prospects of PMMA because of that. And like I said, I don't see it as secular -- cyclical because it's truly a solution rather than a commodity.

因此，我們有能力在我們的投資組合中使用 PMMA 來擴大盛禧奧 (Trinseo) 的整體潛在市場，所以我根本不看漲（原文如此）[看跌]。因此，我對 PMMA 的前景感到非常興奮。就像我說的，我不認為它是長期的——週期性的，因為它確實是一種解決方案，而不是一種商品。

Sounds good. That's very helpful commentary. And then Dave, I think you talked about capital allocation going forward as including both M&A and buybacks. Based on your guidance, I think the midpoint in free cash flow yield next year would be around 17%. And so is it fair to say that buybacks are perhaps a little more attractive than M&A at this standpoint? Or how would you characterize that?

聽起來不錯。這是非常有幫助的評論。然後戴夫，我想你談到了未來的資本配置，包括併購和回購。根據您的指導，我認為明年自由現金流收益率的中點將在 17% 左右。因此，從這個角度來看，回購可能比併購更具吸引力，這樣說是否公平？或者你會如何描述這一點？

No. I don't think I'd characterize it that way. I mean look, one thing we've done a lot of, obviously in a short period of time, we've done 2 acquisitions and a divestiture, and we're working on another divestiture. So from a corporate development perspective, I mean, we have a lot going on in the company. So our appetite to do M&A in the immediate term is somewhat constrained by that, I would say. But that's only the immediate term.

不，我不認為我會這樣描述它。我的意思是，看，我們做了很多事情，顯然在很短的時間內，我們已經完成了兩次收購和一次剝離，並且我們正在進行另一項剝離。因此，從公司發展的角度來看，我的意思是，我們公司發生了很多事情。因此，我想說，我們短期內進行併購的意願在某種程度上受到了限制。但這只是短期的。

Having said that, I mean, we're still looking at the pipeline and building out a pipeline of acquisitions. We do expect some divestiture proceeds to come in and we'll want to have a healthy pipeline to look at, and we'll balance that against return to shareholders. So I wouldn't necessarily say that one is more attractive than the other right now.

話雖如此，我的意思是，我們仍在尋找管道並建立收購管道。我們確實預期會有一些剝離收益，我們希望有一個健康的管道可供研究，我們將平衡這一收益與股東回報。所以我現在不一定說其中一個比另一個更具吸引力。

As I said to Frank's question earlier, our buybacks clearly will be scaled, where we'll be buying more at -- taking advantage of dips in the market.

正如我之前對弗蘭克的問題所說，我們的回購顯然會擴大規模，我們將利用市場下跌的機會買進更多股票。

Your next question comes from the line of Laurence Alexander of Jefferies.

你的下一個問題來自傑弗里斯的勞倫斯·亞歷山大。

I just want to follow up on the acquisition of the recycling platform. What's your thought process around the explosion of innovation in feedstock handling? And how Trinseo will be either investing or keeping up with changes in the technology there?

我只是想跟進回收平台的收購情況。您對原料處理創新爆炸性成長的思考過程是怎麼樣的？盛禧奧將如何投資或跟上那裡的技術變化？

And secondly, the business you acquired, does it process the full gamut of consumer mixed waste at a profitable margin? Or is it -- or how should we think about the economics there?

其次，您收購的企業是否能夠以獲利的方式處理所有消費者混合廢棄物？或者是——或者我們應該如何思考那裡的經濟狀況？

Laurence. So what Heathland does is actually target certain streams of waste and they've built a collection network across Europe that allow them to specialize in the materials that, frankly, are important to Trinseo. So polycarbonate, PMMA, ABS and some polystyrene. So it -- they're not just -- they're not getting a massive mixed waste stream that they then have to do tremendous separation toward. It's more of a targeted collection that they do. And this is why they're such an important part -- we see them as so attractive.

勞倫斯.因此，Heathland 所做的實際上是針對某些廢物流，他們在整個歐洲建立了一個收集網絡，使他們能夠專門收集坦率地說對盛禧奧來說很重要的材料。聚碳酸酯、PMMA、ABS 和一些聚苯乙烯。因此，他們不僅僅是——他們沒有得到大量的混合廢物流，然後他們必須對其進行巨大的分離。他們所做的更多是有針對性的收集。這就是為什麼它們如此重要——我們認為它們如此有吸引力。

Now from an intellectual property standpoint, they're developing their own IP on both separation technology as well as chemical recycling capabilities for those feedstocks. So we like them for that reason, that they are innovating, they are developing new processes. And at the other -- and at the same time, they are controlling some significant streams of post-consumer and post-industrial waste that are targeted toward our important polymers.

現在，從智慧財產權的角度來看，他們正在開發自己的分離技術智慧財產權以及這些原料的化學回收能力。所以我們喜歡他們的原因是他們正在創新，他們正在開發新的流程。另一方面，他們正在控制一些針對我們重要聚合物的消費後和工業後廢物流。

Your next question comes from the line of Angel Castillo of Morgan Stanley.

你的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的安吉爾·卡斯蒂略。

Just wanted to circle back on, I guess, the discussion around Base Plastics and a lot of the commentary that you've had around end markets, whether it's appliances or others. Curious, but it seems like ABS, polycarbonate and perhaps polystyrene as well have been pretty resilient or strong here, and you talked about polystyrene returning to mid-2021 range. So as we think about the cycle, it seems like end market demand remains robust right now, but these products or perhaps earnings spreads today that seem to be at the higher end of where they've been kind of throughout the cycle? So how do you think about this longer term, where these businesses can be, from a profitability perspective? And if you do see any kind of normalization, what the cadence of that would be?

我想只是想回顧一下有關基礎塑膠的討論以及圍繞終端市場（無論是電器還是其他市場）的許多評論。很好奇，但 ABS、聚碳酸酯，也許還有聚苯乙烯，在這裡都相當有彈性或很強，而且您談到聚苯乙烯將回到 2021 年中期的範圍。因此，當我們思考這個週期時，終端市場需求目前似乎仍然強勁，但這些產品或今天的獲利利差似乎處於整個週期的較高端？那麼，從獲利角度來看，您如何看待長期來看這些業務的發展前景？如果你確實看到任何形式的正常化，那麼其節奏會是怎樣的？

I do believe -- let me take each of them separately. I believe ABS, we have a unique product in ABS, and it has unique attributes that in the tight market like we saw late in 2020 and in early 2021, we began to understand the true value proposition for our products in certain applications. And I would say that the margin profile we have in ABS reflects the value it offers to our customers. And so I would say that the margin we're getting in ABS is reflective, is structural, what we're seeing now, excluding some of these anomalies like I described in early 2021 with supply chain disruptions where there was some desperation buying in the markets.

我確實相信——讓我分別談談它們。我相信ABS，我們在ABS 中有一種獨特的產品，它具有獨特的屬性，在像我們在2020 年底和2021 年初看到的緊張市場中，我們開始了解我們的產品在某些應用中的真正價值主張。我想說的是，我們的 ABS 保證金狀況反映了它為客戶提供的價值。因此，我想說，我們在ABS 中獲得的利潤是反射性的、結構性的，正如我們現在所看到的那樣，不包括我在2021 年初描述的一些異常情況，即供應鏈中斷，當時市場上出現了一些絕望的購買行為。

I would say the same about polycarbonate. We have a unique product in polycarbonate that lends itself uniquely to some of the applications that we focus on. And I'll remind you, 20 -- 40% of our polycarbonate goes into compounds internally, is compounded to a solution internally. So again, I think that's a pretty structural margin that we should expect in that business going forward.

對於聚碳酸酯我也這麼說。我們擁有一種獨特的聚碳酸酯產品，它獨特地適合我們關注的一些應用。我要提醒您的是，我們 20 - 40% 的聚碳酸酯會在內部形成化合物，並在內部複合成溶液。再說一遍，我認為我們應該在該業務的未來中預期獲得相當大的結構性利潤。

Polystyrene, I believe we've done a great job. And again, we -- our portfolio is more than half or approximately half going into the appliance markets and high-impact polystyrene and value-added materials. So we have very little exposure into the plastic packaging side. So again, I think we value -- we've understood how to value price those and see those margins as relatively stable in those more specialized applications. So -- and as I mentioned on PMMA, I think the value proposition and the margin profile should improve as we continue funding growth in these more specialized material substitution opportunities like metal replacement or fiberglass replacement.

聚苯乙烯，我相信我們已經做得很好了。再說一遍，我們的產品組合一半以上或大約一半進入了家電市場以及高影響力的聚苯乙烯和增值材料。所以我們對塑膠包裝的了解很少。因此，我認為我們重視 - 我們已經了解如何對這些產品進行定價，並認為這些利潤在那些更專業的應用程式中相對穩定。因此，正如我在 PMMA 中提到的，我認為隨著我們繼續資助金屬替代或玻璃纖維替代等更專業的材料替代機會的增長，價值主張和利潤狀況應該會改善。

That's very helpful. And maybe going back to the conversation around sustainability. As we think about the portfolio beyond kind of the potential divestiture of the Styrenics business, a number of the initiatives that you've kind of undertaken are perhaps around the polystyrene recycling arena. So as we think about how you have 2030 target of sustainability for 30% of your portfolio, how does that look once you do divest the Styrenics business and the Polystyrene business? It seems like [eeflin] does offer a lot within PMMA, PC and others. So yes, just if you could help us understand how your sustainability or how your metrics compare once you do divest the Styrenics business?

這非常有幫助。也許回到關於可持續發展的對話。當我們考慮除苯乙烯業務潛在剝離之外的投資組合時，您採取的許多措施可能都圍繞著聚苯乙烯回收領域。因此，當我們考慮如何為 30% 的投資組合設定 2030 年永續發展目標時，一旦您剝離苯乙烯業務和聚苯乙烯業務，情況會如何？看來 [eeflin] 確實在 PMMA、PC 和其他領域提供了許多功能。那麼，是的，如果您能幫助我們了解您的永續性或在您剝離苯乙烯業務後您的指標如何比較？

Yes, we would expect that, that target would remain. That's an aggressive target for us. We would expect also that the divestiture of our Styrenics business would include the projects for recycled -- chemically recycled polystyrene. But we would expect that we would be a customer of that business for that recycled feedstock into our downstream businesses as we exit, so the 30% would remain our target. And like I said, we would expect to be a customer through offtake agreements from those plants to a certain extent after we separate.

是的，我們預計該目標將保持不變。這對我們來說是一個積極的目標。我們也預計苯乙烯業務的剝離將包括回收化學回收聚苯乙烯專案。但我們預計，當我們退出時，我們將成為該業務的客戶，將回收原料輸送到我們的下游業務中，因此 30% 仍將是我們的目標。正如我所說，在我們分拆後，我們希望在一定程度上透過這些工廠的承購協議成為客戶。

Your next question comes from the line of Bob Koort of Goldman Sachs.

你的下一個問題來自高盛的鮑伯·庫特。

This is actually Mike Harris sitting in for Bob. I had just a couple of questions, if I could. On the increase in the total synergy pipeline, I mean, what steps did you guys take after that initial assessment to identify the additional synergies? And what's the likelihood that there could be additional increases still to be found?

這實際上是邁克·哈里斯（Mike Harris）代替鮑勃（Bob）。如果可以的話，我只有幾個問題。關於總協同效應管道的增加，我的意思是，在初步評估後，你們採取了哪些步驟來確定額外的協同效應？仍有待發現的額外增長的可能性有多大？

Yes. So maybe I'll start and Dave, you can add -- add on. What we would -- obviously, once we owned an asset, we brought our different functional workstreams together to identify opportunities for both cost savings as well as growth. And what I would say is there's always opportunities that are bigger than you expected, whether it's in procurement and things that where you buy the same classes of materials and you can buy more from similar vendors, or we had logistics opportunities that we hadn't identified theoretically when we were doing the due diligence. And that's basically what happened. I would say where we're extremely pleased and saw much greater opportunity is on the growth side, because what we -- as an example, and Dave can probably give you more color.

是的。所以也許我會開始，戴夫，你可以添加——添加。顯然，一旦我們擁有一項資產，我們就會將不同的職能工作流程整合在一起，以確定成本節約和成長的機會。我想說的是，總是有比你預期更大的機會，無論是在採購方面，還是在你購買相同類別的材料並且可以從類似供應商那裡購買更多的東西方面，或者我們擁有我們沒有的物流機會方面我們在進行盡職調查時理論上確定了。這基本上就是發生的事情。我想說的是，我們非常高興並看到更大的機會在成長方面，因為我們——例如，戴夫可能會給你更多的色彩。

For example, one of the key products that -- applications that our Aristech business sells into -- is it uses a PMMA ABS laminate construction, and this is very quickly growing. It's going into a lot of applications where you're replacing alternative materials like metal or fiberglass. And so at tremendous value propositions, but it was rate limited in its growth by the availability of ABS. And so with our ABS portfolio and PMMA -- and I would remind you, we're the only producer in the world that has both PMMA and ABS in their portfolio, we see that we can accelerate the growth rate of those constructions. So that's the process we used and bringing the teams together and identified those opportunities that weren't necessarily visible to us during the due diligence.

例如，我們 Aristech 業務銷售的關鍵產品之一是使用 PMMA ABS 層壓結構，並且成長非常迅速。它正在進入許多應用，您可以替代金屬或玻璃纖維等替代材料。因此，它具有巨大的價值主張，但由於 ABS 的可用性，其成長速度受到限制。因此，透過我們的 ABS 產品組合和 PMMA，我想提醒您，我們是世界上唯一一家在其產品組合中同時擁有 PMMA 和 ABS 的生產商，我們看到我們可以加快這些結構的成長率。這就是我們使用的流程，將團隊聚集在一起，並確定了那些在盡職調查期間我們不一定能看到的機會。

Okay. Great color. And then speaking of cost savings, as you get the ERP implemented and perhaps upgrade some of the plant control rooms, are you expecting any material cost savings? And if so, would that be something we'd see an impact in cost of goods sold or SG&A?

好的。顏色很棒。然後說到成本節約，當您實施 ERP 並可能升級一些工廠控制室時，您是否期望節省任何材料成本？如果是這樣，我們會看到這對銷售成本或銷售管理費用 (SG&A) 產生影響嗎？

Mike, this is Dave. I'll take that. Yes. I mean, the plant control room software, I think, is more of a project where we're replacing unsupported equipment. So I don't think -- we won't see cost savings of significance there. But the ERP, clearly, we will. When we announced the project originally, we said there -- yes, we said there would be at least $25 million of cost savings from that project. I think most of that, you'll probably see in cost of goods sold versus SG&A. And the timing of that would be late '23, after we finish the project, obviously, and then full realization in '24.

麥克，這是戴夫。我會接受的。是的。我的意思是，我認為工廠控制室軟體更像是我們更換不支援的設備的專案。所以我認為——我們不會看到顯著的成本節約。但 ERP 顯然我們會的。當我們最初宣布該項目時，我們說過——是的，我們說過該項目將節省至少 2500 萬美元的成本。我認為其中大部分您可能會在銷售成本與銷售管理費用 (SG&A) 中看到。顯然，這個時間將在 23 年晚些時候，在我們完成該專案之後，然後在 24 年完全實現。

Your last question comes from the line of Duffy Fischer of Barclays.

你的最後一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的達菲費雪。

If we're doing some pro forma work for the divestiture of Styrenics, can you help us, what percent of the midpoint of your guide this year would be from what would be divested? And then does it do anything to your tax rate? And are there any stranded costs with that, that we need to bring back to remainco after the fact?

如果我們正在為苯乙烯的剝離做一些準備工作，您能否幫助我們，今年您的指南中點的百分之幾將來自於剝離的內容？那麼它對你的稅率有什麼影響嗎？是否存在任何滯留成本，我們需要在事後將其帶回剩餘成本？

Duffy, this is Dave. I would say to give you some kind of rough numbers, I would say about 1/3 of the perimeter of the transaction, which again, just to reiterate, is our Feedstock segment, our Polystyrene segment and our 50% ownership in Americas Styrenics, that's the perimeter of the transaction of our guidance this year, guided range this year, that represents about 1/3 of that.

達菲，這是戴夫。我想說給你們一些粗略的數字，我想說大約是交易範圍的 1/3，再次重申，這是我們的原料部門、我們的聚苯乙烯部門以及我們在 Americas Styrenics 的 50% 所有權，這是我們今年指導的交易範圍，今年的指導範圍，約佔其中的1/3。

As it relates to stranded costs, we're going through that exercise now. I mean clearly, there will be some stranded cost. As I said earlier, we'll either have to address that stranded cost or we'll have other portfolio actions that would absorb that cost, other acquisitions. So I think -- does that -- is there -- oh, tax rate [there's no real change]...

由於它與擱淺成本有關，我們現在正在進行這項工作。我的意思很明確，將會有一些滯留成本。正如我之前所說，我們要么必須解決擱淺成本，要么採取其他投資組合行動來吸收該成本，即其他收購。所以我認為 - 是否存在 - 哦，稅率[沒有真正的變化]...

On the tax rate? Does it do anything to the tax rate for the company?

關於稅率？這對公司的稅率有影響嗎？

No. No, I don't think it does. We're kind of in the process now of migrating the acquisitions that we've done, where possible, into our tax structure. So I think our -- I think in the end, our tax rate as a company post the divestiture will be similar to what it would have been pre which is, for this year, low 20s.

不，不，我不認為是這樣。我們現在正在將我們已經完成的收購盡可能轉移到我們的稅收結構中。所以我認為我們——我認為最終，我們作為一家公司在剝離後的稅率將與剝離前的稅率相似，今年為 20 多歲。

Okay. And then just last one around cash. Obviously, you'll get some cash back in if this sale goes through. You're generating a lot of cash. What's kind of the highest level that we should think about cash on the balance sheet that you would be comfortable holding, not for 1 quarter but for some period of time over the next couple of years?

好的。然後最後一項是現金。顯然，如果這次銷售成功，您將獲得一些現金回饋。你正在產生大量現金。對於您願意持有的資產負債表上的現金，我們應該考慮的最高水準是多少，不是一個季度，而是未來幾年的一段時間？

Yes. I don't think -- we haven't put a number out there. I don't -- like frankly, to be honest with you, Duffy, we've got some requirements of our covenants, there are debt covenants that require us to do things with divestiture proceeds if they're not utilized for -- if they're not reinvested in other assets. So our constraint, I think, on utilizing those proceeds is more governed by that. And frankly, the inter -- as I said earlier, the internal resources in the company to work on those integration projects and redeploy the money. So I think those are really more of the limiters than any guardrails that we would set arbitrarily.

是的。我不認為——我們還沒有公佈具體數字。我不——坦白說，達菲，我們對我們的契約有一些要求，有些債務契約要求我們用剝離收益做一些事情，如果它們不被用於——如果他們不會再投資於其他資產。因此，我認為，我們對利用這些收益的限制更受此約束。坦白說，正如我之前所說，公司內部資源用於這些整合專案並重新部署資金。所以我認為這些實際上比我們任意設定的任何護欄更具限制性。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。