TransAlta Corp (TAC) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. My name is Sherry, and I will be your conference operator today.

早安.我叫雪莉，今天我將擔任你們的會議操作員。

At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to TransAlta Corporation third quarter 2024 results conference Call. (Operator Instructions)

此時此刻，我歡迎大家參加 TransAlta Corporation 2024 年第三季業績電話會議。（操作員說明）

Thank you. Sherry. Good morning, everyone and welcome to our third quarter 2024 conference call. With me today are John Kousinioris, President and Chief Executive Officer; Joel Hunter Chief Financial Officer; and Blain van Melle, EVP, Commercial and Customer Relations.

謝謝。雪莉酒。大家早上好，歡迎參加我們的 2024 年第三季電話會議。今天和我在一起的有總裁兼執行長約翰‧庫西尼奧里斯 (John Kosinioris)；喬爾‧亨特首席財務長；以及商務和客戶關係執行副總裁 Blain van Melle。

Today's call is being webcast, and I invite those listening on the phone lines to view the supporting slides that are also posted on our website. A replay of the call will be available later today, and the transcript will be posted to our website shortly thereafter.

今天的電話會議正在網路上直播，我邀請那些在電話線上收聽的人觀看我們網站上發布的支援幻燈片。今天稍後將提供電話會議的重播，會議記錄將在不久後發佈到我們的網站上。

All the information provided during this conference call is subject to the forward-looking statement qualifications set out here on slide 2, detailed further in our MD&A and incorporated in full for the purposes of today's call. All amounts reference during our call today are in Canadian dollars, unless otherwise noted.

本次電話會議期間提供的所有資訊均受投影片 2 中列出的前瞻性聲明的限制，這些限制在我們的 MD&A 中進一步詳細說明，並出於今天電話會議的目的而完整納入。除非另有說明，我們今天電話會議中提到的所有金額均以加幣為單位。

And the non-IFRS terminology, we used, including adjusted EBITDA and free cash flow, are also reconciled in the MD&A for your reference. On today's call, John and Joel will provide an overview of TransAlta's quarterly results. After these remarks, we will open the call for questions.

我們使用的非國際財務報告準則術語，包括調整後的 EBITDA 和自由現金流，也在 MD&A 中進行了調整，供您參考。在今天的電話會議上，約翰和喬爾將概述 TransAlta 的季度業績。在這些發言之後，我們將開始提問。

And with that, let me turn the call over to John.

接下來，讓我把電話轉給約翰。

Thank you, Chiara. Good morning, everyone and thank you for joining our third quarter 2024 conference call. As part of our commitment towards reconciliation, I want to begin by acknowledging that TransAlta's head office, where we are today, is located in the traditional territories of the peoples of Treaty 7, which includes the Blackfoot Confederacy comprising the Siksika, the Piikani, and the Kainai First Nations; the Tsuut'ina First Nation; and the Stoney-Nakoda, including the Chiniki, Bearspaw, and Good Stoney First Nations. The City of Calgary is also home to the Metis Nation of Alberta Districts five and six.

謝謝你，基亞拉。大家早安，感謝您參加我們的 2024 年第三季電話會議。作為我們和解承諾的一部分，我首先要承認，TransAlta 的總部，也就是我們今天所在的地方，位於第七條約各民族的傳統領土上，其中包括由錫克西卡人、皮卡尼人和皮卡尼由人組成的黑腳邦聯。 Tsuut'ina 原住民；以及斯托尼-納科達原住民，包括奇尼基原住民、熊爪原住民和好斯托尼原住民。卡加利市也是艾伯塔省第五區和第六區梅蒂斯民族的所在地。

TransAlta delivered another quarter of excellent financial and operating results. We had strong performance across our generating fleet as well as from our Energy Marketing segment. Our third quarter results illustrate the value of our proactive hedging strategy and the active management of our Alberta merchant portfolio.

TransAlta 又一個季度實現了出色的財務和營運業績。我們的發電機組以及能源行銷部門均表現強勁。我們第三季的業績說明了我們積極的對沖策略和對艾伯塔省商業投資組合的積極管理的價值。

During the quarter, we delivered adjusted EBITDA of CAD325 million, free cash flow of CAD140 million or CAD0.47 per share and average fleet availability of 94.5% demonstrating our strong operational capabilities.

本季度，我們的調整後 EBITDA 為 3.25 億加元，自由現金流為 1.4 億加元或每股 0.47 加元，平均機隊可用性為 94.5%，證明了我們強大的營運能力。

And our strong balance sheet continues to provide us with flexibility with over CAD1.8 billion in available liquidity, including approximately CAD400 million in cash, we are well positioned to execute on our capital allocation priorities, which includes completing our enhanced share repurchase program for 2024 and funding the closing of the Heartland Generation acquisition.

我們強大的資產負債表繼續為我們提供了靈活性，可用流動資金超過18 億加元，其中包括約4 億加元現金，我們有能力執行我們的資本配置優先事項，其中包括完成2024 年強化股票回購計劃並為完成 Heartland Generation 收購提供資金。

I would now like to update you on a number of our strategic initiatives this quarter. First, with respect to the Heartland Generation acquisition, we remain actively and constructively engaged with the Competition Bureau in our effort to obtain Competition Act approval.

我現在想向您介紹本季我們的一些策略舉措的最新情況。首先，關於 Heartland Generation 的收購，我們仍然積極、建設性地與競爭局合作，努力獲得競爭法的批准。

We have made good progress on this front and now have greater optimism regarding a pathway to completing the transaction. We have also constructively engaged with the seller to ensure that the transaction continues to meet our value expectations. I'm hopeful that we will be able to update everyone on the status of the transaction shortly.

我們在這方面取得了良好進展，現在對完成交易的途徑更加樂觀。我們也與賣方進行了建設性的接觸，以確保交易繼續滿足我們的價值預期。我希望我們能夠盡快向大家通報交易的最新狀態。

Next, we continue to advance the significant contracting and development opportunities we see at our legacy thermal sites in both Washington State and Alberta. And finally, given the weakness in expected market conditions we see for the next year or so, we've decided to temporarily mothball Sundance Unit 6 effective April 1, 2025, which enables us to preserve the unit and site for future opportunities.

接下來，我們將繼續推進華盛頓州和艾伯塔省的遺留熱電站中看到的重大承包和開發機會。最後，考慮到我們預計未來一年左右的市場狀況將疲軟，我們決定從2025 年4 月1 日起暫時封存聖丹斯電影節6 號單元，這使我們能夠保留該單元和場地以應對未來的機會。

Moving to our legacy energy campuses. And as we noted during our last call, the Centralia site has multiple opportunities that we're currently assessing, and we are in active discussions with several potential counterparties to determine how to best meet their energy needs from the site.

搬到我們的傳統能源園區。正如我們在上次電話會議中指出的那樣，Centralia 工廠擁有我們目前正在評估的多個機會，並且我們正在與幾個潛在的交易對手進行積極討論，以確定如何最好地滿足他們在該工廠的能源需求。

This could include both the repurposing of existing assets and the potential for new facilities, which would serve to enhance the reliability of the grid in Washington State and support the energy transition in meaningful ways. If successful, we will have the ability to extend the operating life of the Centralia site as well as build out other opportunities, including potentially wind, solar, batteries, pump storage and next-generation technologies.

這可能包括現有資產的重新利用和新設施的潛力，這將有助於提高華盛頓州電網的可靠性並以有意義的方式支持能源轉型。如果成功，我們將有能力延長 Centralia 站點的營運壽命，並創造其他機會，包括潛在的風能、太陽能、電池、抽水蓄能和下一代技術。

Critically important infrastructure, including steel in the ground transmission is available at site with significantly reduced redevelopment costs and time lines for permitting and would provide us with an advantage in speed to delivering power supply. We expect be able to share our more detailed development plans for Centralia during the first half of 2025.

至關重要的基礎設施，包括地面傳輸中的鋼鐵，都可以在現場使用，大大降低了重建成本和許可時間，並將為我們提供電力供應速度方面的優勢。我們預計能夠在 2025 年上半年分享我們更詳細的 Centralia 開發計劃。

We're also progressing multiple opportunities at our legacy thermal sites in Alberta. We're actively marketing these sites and believe that they hold significant value and provide unique advantages to customers. Our legacy sites around Wabamun Lake in Alberta have close to 1.3 gigawatts of operating capacity at Sundance Unit 6 and Keephills Units 2 and 3. The Sundance and Keephills sites are within 20 kilometers of each other and only 80 kilometers from Edmonton.

我們也在艾伯塔省的傳統熱場開發了多個機會。我們正在積極行銷這些網站，並相信它們具有重要價值並為客戶提供獨特的優勢。我們位於艾伯塔省 Wabamun Lake 周圍的舊址 Sundance 6 號機組和 Keephills 2 號和 3 號機組的營運容量接近 1.3 吉瓦。Sundance 和 Keephills 場地相距不到 20 公里，距離埃德蒙頓僅 80 公里。

We have a further 1.6 gigawatts of vital infrastructure at Sundance and Keephills and over 40,000 acres of land available to meet customer needs. The sites have water rights, fiber optic cable access close by and grid interconnection on locations.

我們在聖丹斯和基普希爾斯還有 1.6 吉瓦的重要基礎設施以及超過 40,000 英畝的土地可滿足客戶需求。這些站點擁有水權、附近的光纖電纜接入和局部電網互連。

Retired units and spare site capacity at both sites provide us with the potential for significant expansion, including repowering in the future. Our merchant renewables portfolio in the province also enables us to bundle REX to lower customer carbon intensity and our marketing optimization and regulatory experience differentiates us from other options.

兩個站點的退役設備和閒置站點容量為我們提供了大幅擴張的潛力，包括未來的重新供電。我們在省內的商業再生能源投資組合也使我們能夠捆綁 REX 以降低客戶的碳強度，我們的行銷優化和監管經驗使我們有別於其他選擇。

We often hear that Alberta's geographic location makes it less desirable for data centers from a latency perspective. We don't believe this to be the case. As you can see from the map on the slide, our analysis shows that Alberta is well located for both AI trading and AI inferencing applications when you consider that most would require latency of 75 milliseconds or better.

我們經常聽說，從延遲的角度來看，艾伯塔省的地理位置使其不太適合建立資料中心。我們認為事實並非如此。正如您從幻燈片上的地圖中看到的那樣，我們的分析表明，當您考慮到大多數應用程式需要75 毫秒或更好的延遲時，艾伯塔省非常適合人工智慧交易和人工智慧推理應用程式.

Latency would not, therefore, be an issue for many customers if they were to be located on one of our sites, and we're in discussions with multiple hyperscalers who are potentially interested our Alberta energy campuses.

因此，對於許多客戶來說，如果他們位於我們的站點之一，延遲就不會成為問題，並且我們正在與多個對我們的艾伯塔省能源園區可能感興趣的超大規模企業進行討論。

We're also progressing several initiatives to ensure our sites are turnkey ready for data centers. We believe we're uniquely positioned to respond to the growing need of data center customers for timely, affordable, reliable and clean power.

我們也正在推進多項舉措，以確保我們的站點為資料中心做好交鑰匙準備。我們相信，我們擁有獨特的優勢，能夠滿足資料中心客戶對及時、實惠、可靠和清潔電力日益增長的需求。

However, while we see great potential in our Alberta thermal sites, given the more immediate fundamentals of the market in 2025, we've taken the prudent financial decision to temporarily mothball Sundance 6, while reserving it for future economic opportunities.

然而，雖然我們看到艾伯塔省地熱發電廠的巨大潛力，但鑑於2025 年市場的基本面更為直接，我們採取了謹慎的財務決定，暫時封存Sundance 6，同時為未來的經濟機會保留它。

With current oversupply conditions, the decision defers significant sustaining capital expenditures and enables us to consolidate our cost structure and operations. We will maintain the flexibility to return Sundance to service when market fundamentals improve and support the addition of the unit's generation. We will continue to operate the unit through to the end of the first quarter of 2025, and the mothball period will commence April 1, 2025.

在當前供應過剩的情況下，該決定推遲了大量的持續性資本支出，並使我們能夠鞏固我們的成本結構和營運。當市場基本面改善並支援增加該機組的發電量時，我們將保持靈活性，讓聖丹斯恢復服務。我們將繼續營運該裝置直至 2025 年第一季末，封存期將於 2025 年 4 月 1 日開始。

Our Alberta portfolio is fully capable of managing our hedging strategy, while Sundance 6 is mothballed and in the meantime, we'll continue to evaluate the Sundance site for data centers and reliability contracts actively assessing opportunities while the site is not in operation.

我們的艾伯塔投資組合完全有能力管理我們的對沖策略，而Sundance 6 已被封存，與此同時，我們將繼續評估Sundance 場地的數據中心和可靠性合同，在該場地不運營時積極評估機會。

Switching to our 2024 outlook. Our financial performance in the year-to-date makes us confident that we will deliver the year towards the upper end of our adjusted EBITDA and free cash flow ranges notwithstanding the larger planned outages that we have in the fourth quarter that will impact our free cash flow.

轉向我們的 2024 年展望。我們今年迄今為止的財務業績使我們有信心，儘管我們第四季度計劃的更大規模的停電將影響我們的自由現金，但我們將在今年實現調整後的 EBITDA 和自由現金流範圍的上限流動。

Joel will now provide more details on the quarter.

喬爾現在將提供有關該季度的更多詳細資訊。

Thank you, John, and good morning, everyone. We are very pleased with our third quarter operational performance and financial results, which are led by our Alberta portfolio in the Energy Marketing segment. The Alberta portfolio was able to outperform expectations, while we continue to face a challenging merchant pricing environment.

謝謝約翰，大家早安。我們對第三季的營運業績和財務表現感到非常滿意，這些業績和財務業績由我們艾伯塔省能源行銷部門的投資組合引領。艾伯塔省投資組合的表現超出了預期，而我們仍然面臨著充滿挑戰的商家定價環境。

The Hydro segment produced adjusted EBITDA of $89 million, broadly in line with our expectations given the lower realized and ancillary spot prices. The decline quarter-over-quarter was partially mitigated from greater volume of ancillary services due to increased demand by the ISO as well as the ability to capture better than average premiums that were in line with average spot energy prices.

鑑於已實現價格和輔助現貨價格較低，水電部門調整後 EBITDA 為 8,900 萬美元，基本上符合我們的預期。由於 ISO 需求增加，以及能夠獲得高於平均現貨能源價格的溢價，輔助服務量增加，部分緩解了季度環比下降的趨勢。

We are also able to sell additional environmental attributes to offset the power price declines at the merchant fleet. The wind and solar segment delivered adjusted EBITDA of $44 million, a 19% increase compared to the same period last year, primarily due to the addition of the Oklahoma wind assets, together with the new PTC transfer deals in return to service of Keephills.

我們還能夠出售額外的環境屬性，以抵消商船隊電價的下降。風能和太陽能部門調整後的 EBITDA 為 4,400 萬美元，與去年同期相比增長 19%，這主要是由於俄克拉荷馬州風能資產的增加，以及為換取 Keephills 服務而進行的新 PTC 轉讓交易。

The Gas segment, which had improved availability of 96.3% delivered adjusted EBITDA of $139 million during the quarter. The reduced contribution year-over-year was driven by overall lower production resulting from higher economic dispatch and excess supply conditions in Alberta, while the decline in realized prices in Alberta portfolio was partly mitigated from our favorable hedge premiums and position.

天然氣部門的可用性提高了 96.3%，本季調整後 EBITDA 達到 1.39 億美元。同比貢獻減少的原因是艾伯塔省經濟調度增加和供應過剩狀況導致整體產量下降，而艾伯塔省投資組合的實現價格下降部分因我們有利的對沖溢價和頭寸而得到緩解。

The Energy Transition segment delivered $34 million of adjusted EBITDA, which increased year-over-year due to lower purchase power costs, which were driven by lower mid-sea pricing on repurchases of power and lower production from higher economic dispatch.

能源轉型部門實現了3400 萬美元的調整後EBITDA，該數字同比增長，原因是購電成本下降，而購電成本下降是由於回購電力的中海定價較低以及較高的經濟調度導致產量下降所致。

And finally, our Energy Marketing segment delivered exceptional performance with adjusted EBITDA of $54 million, an increase of $41 million year-over-year due to the positive market volatility across North American power and natural gas markets, and higher realized settle trades in the third quarter.

And finally, our Energy Marketing segment delivered exceptional performance with adjusted EBITDA of $54 million, an increase of $41 million year-over-year due to the positive market volatility across North American power and natural gas markets, and higher realized settle trades in the third四分之一.

Corporate costs have increased year-over-year, primarily due to increased spending for planning and designing of our ERP upgrade program and initiatives to support our strategic growth.

企業成本逐年增加，主要是由於規劃和設計我們的 ERP 升級計劃以及支持我們策略性成長的措施的支出增加。

Overall, the third quarter was excellent, delivering free cash flow of $140 million or $0.47 per share. Year-to-date, we've achieved $521 million or $1.72 per share of free cash flow, setting up the company well to reach the top end of our guidance, as John noted earlier.

總體而言，第三季表現出色，自由現金流為 1.4 億美元，每股 0.47 美元。今年迄今為止，我們已經實現了 5.21 億美元或每股 1.72 美元的自由現金流，使公司能夠很好地達到我們指導的上限，正如約翰早些時候指出的那樣。

Turning to the Alberta portfolio. The third quarter spot price averaged $55 per megawatt hour, which was significantly lower than the average price of $152 per megawatt hour for the same period in 2023. The decline year-over-year was primarily due to incremental generation from the addition of new gas, wind and source supply as well as lower natural gas prices.

轉向艾伯塔省的投資組合。第三季現貨價格平均為每兆瓦時55美元，明顯低於2023年同期每兆瓦時152美元的平均價格。年比下降主要是由於新增天然氣、風能和能源供應增加以及天然氣價格下降導致發電量增加。

Weather conditions for the third quarter were also milder compared to the third quarter of 2023, which had more periods of extremely hot weather and constrained supply. We continue to proactively deploy hedging strategies to enhance our portfolio margins and mitigate the impact of lower merchant power prices.

與 2023 年第三季相比，第三季的天氣條件也更加溫和，2023 年第三季出現了更多的極端炎熱天氣和供應緊張。我們繼續積極部署對沖策略，以提高我們的投資組合利潤率並減輕商業電價下降的影響。

In the third quarter, we had hedge volumes of 2,365 gigawatt hours at an average price of $85 per megawatt hour, which compared favorably to an average spot power price of $55 per megawatt hour.

第三季度，我們的對沖量為 2,365 吉瓦時，平均價格為每兆瓦時 85 美元，比每兆瓦時的平均現貨電價 55 美元要有利。

We also continue to enhance our margins through our optimization activities as we captured further margins by fulfilling many of our higher-priced hedges with purchase power during lower-priced hours when power prices were below our variable cost of production.

我們也繼續透過優化活動來提高利潤，因為我們透過在電價低於可變生產成本的低價時段利用購買力履行許多高價對沖來獲得更多利潤。

This strategy led to an overall $90 per megawatt hour realized merchant power price for the Alberta portfolio. By continuing to employ this strategy, we were able to effectively optimize variable cost of our production capacity.

這項策略使艾伯塔省投資組合的實際商業電價整體達到每兆瓦時 90 美元。透過持續採用此策略，我們能夠有效優化產能的變動成本。

By optimizing our fleet and fulfilling our hedges with purchase power, we were able to respond to higher demand from the ISO and deliver additional ancillary service volumes across the Alberta fleet. This quarter, our realized price for our ancillary services settled at prices equal to the average quarterly spot energy price of $55 per megawatt hour. Historically, this has averaged around 50% of the average spot power price.

透過優化我們的機隊並利用購買力實現對沖，我們能夠響應 ISO 的更高需求，並為整個艾伯塔省機隊提供額外的輔助服務量。本季度，我們輔助服務的實際價格結算價格等於每兆瓦時 55 美元的平均季度現貨能源價格。從歷史上看，該價格平均約為平均現貨電價的 50% 左右。

Alberta grid continues to need additional ancillary services for reliability and our Hydro fleet is optimized to support this market. During lower demand and pricing periods, we focused on maximizing our reservoirs in order to be optimized for peak demand and for the winter season. Our Hydro fleet has performed exceptionally well through the first nine months of the year and continues to demonstrate its value in different market environments.

艾伯塔省電網繼續需要額外的輔助服務來提高可靠性，我們的水力發電車隊經過優化以支援該市場。在需求和定價較低的時期，我們專注於最大限度地利用我們的水庫，以便針對高峰需求和冬季進行最佳化。我們的 Hydro 車隊在今年前九個月表現異常出色，並繼續在不同的市場環境中展示其價值。

Looking at the fourth quarter, we have approximately 2,400 gigawatt hours of our Alberta portfolio generation hedged, at an average price of $82 per megawatt hour, which continues to be above the current forward curve. For 2025 and 2026, our team has hedged production at an average price of approximately $76 per megawatt hour, also above current forward pricing levels for both years.

展望第四季度，我們的阿爾伯塔投資組合發電量約有 2,400 吉瓦時進行了對沖，平均價格為每兆瓦時 82 美元，繼續高於當前的遠期曲線。對於 2025 年和 2026 年，我們的團隊以每兆瓦時約 76 美元的平均價格對沖生產，也高於這兩年目前的遠期定價水準。

I'll now pass it back to John to discuss our balance of the year priorities. Thanks.

我現在將其傳回給約翰，討論我們今年的優先事項。謝謝。

Thanks, Joel. We remain committed to returning value to our shareholders and have been active in advancing our share buyback program through the first three quarters of the year. As of September 30, we have returned $114 million to our shareholders through share repurchases or approximately 75% of our 2024 target, resulting in a reduction of almost 12 million in common shares and remain committed to completing the $150 million share repurchase program by year-end.

謝謝，喬爾。我們仍然致力於為股東回報價值，並在今年前三個季度積極推動我們的股票回購計畫。截至9 月30 日，我們已透過股票回購向股東返還1.14 億美元，約占我們2024 年目標的75%，從而減少了近1200 萬股普通股，並仍致力於在年內完成1.5 億美元的股票回購計畫。

As I look at our strategic priorities for 2024, we are focused on the following key goals: first, improving our leading and lagging safety performance indicators while achieving strong fleet availability; second, achieving EBITDA and free cash flow consistent with the top end of our 2024 guidance ranges; third, executing our enhanced common share purchase program for 2024; fourth, closing the Heartland Generation transaction and integrating the assets into our fleet; and finally, advancing our ESG program.

在我檢視2024年的策略重點時，我們將重點放在以下關鍵目標：第一，提高領先和落後的安全績效指標，同時實現強大的機隊可用性；其次，實現 EBITDA 和自由現金流與我們 2024 年指導範圍的上限一致；第三，執行 2024 年增強型普通股購買計畫；第四，完成 Heartland Generation 交易並將資產整合到我們的機隊中；最後，推進我們的 ESG 計劃。

We continue to be prudent and disciplined in our growth plan, and our team will be focused on meeting the needs and expectations of both our customers and our shareholders. We're seeing considerable opportunities to support the energy transition in our core jurisdictions, particularly at our legacy thermal sites, where we are actively pursuing redevelopment and recontracting opportunities to serve a growing customer base.

我們在成長計畫中繼續保持謹慎和紀律，我們的團隊將專注於滿足客戶和股東的需求和期望。我們在我們的核心管轄區看到了支持能源轉型的大量機會，特別是在我們的遺留火場，我們正在積極尋求再開發和重新承包機會，以服務不斷增長的客戶群。

I'd like to close by highlighting what I think makes TransAlta highly attractive investment and a great value opportunity. First, our cash flows are strong and resilient and underpinned by a growing high-quality and increasingly contracted and diversified portfolio.

最後，我想強調我認為 TransAlta 具有高度吸引力的投資和巨大價值機會的原因。首先，我們的現金流強勁且富有彈性，並以不斷提高的高品質、日益收縮和多元化的投資組合為基礎。

Our business is driven by our unique, reliable and perpetual Hydro portfolio, our contracted wind and solar portfolio and our efficient gas portfolio; all of which are complemented by a world-class asset optimization and energy marketing capabilities.

我們的業務由我們獨特、可靠和永久的水力產品組合、合約風能和太陽能產品組合以及高效的天然氣產品組合所推動；所有這些都輔以世界一流的資產優化和能源行銷能力。

Second, we're a clean electricity leader with a focus on tangible greenhouse gas emissions reductions and we remain on track to achieve our ambitious CO2 emissions reduction targets.

其次，我們是清潔電力的領導者，專注於有形的溫室氣體減排，我們將繼續實現雄心勃勃的二氧化碳減排目標。

Third, we have a tremendous resource in our legacy thermal sites, which our teams are actively working to redevelop and repurpose to meet the evolving needs of our customers and markets.

第三，我們的遺留熱電廠擁有龐大的資源，我們的團隊正在積極致力於重新開發和重新利用這些資源，以滿足客戶和市場不斷變化的需求。

Fourth, we have a diversified development pipeline and a talented development team focused on securing appropriate returns as it works to advance our clean electricity growth plan ambitions.

第四，我們擁有多元化的開發管道和才華橫溢的開發團隊，專注於確保適當的回報，並努力推動我們的清潔電力成長計畫雄心。

And fifth, our company has a sound financial foundation. Our balance sheet is strong, and we have ample liquidity to return cash flow to our shareholders through share repurchases, close the Heartland acquisition and pursue and deliver growth when returns meet our thresholds.

第五，我們公司有良好的財務基礎。我們的資產負債表強勁，擁有充足的流動性，可以透過股票回購將現金流返還給股東，完成 Heartland 的收購，並在回報達到我們的門檻時追求並實現成長。

Finally, we have our people. Our people are our greatest asset, and I want to thank all of our employees and contractors for the outstanding work they have done to deliver our excellent results during the quarter and set company up for a strong finish to 2024. Thank you.

最後，我們有了我們的人民。我們的員工是我們最大的資產，我要感謝我們所有的員工和承包商所做的出色工作，他們在本季度取得了出色的業績，並為公司在 2024 年取得了強勁的成績奠定了基礎。謝謝。

I'll turn the call back over to Chiara.

我會把電話轉回給 Chiara。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Mark Jarvi with CIBC.

CIBC 的 Mark Jarvi。

Hi, Good morning, everyone. Maybe John, talking about repurposing our thermal site. Is your view that you'd be able to host data centers on your site or mostly be serving data centers at a different location? So just through the grid or behind meter colocation is the perspective you're looking at right now?

嗨，大家早安。也許約翰正在談論重新利用我們的熱場。您是否認為能夠在自己的網站上託管資料中心，或主要為其他位置的資料中心提供服務？那麼，您現在所看到的視角就是透過網格或儀表並置後的視角？

Yeah, Good morning, Mark. Our primary focus right now is actually more oriented, I would say, towards colocation. The kind of discussions that we've been having would be given the facilities we have, given the location that we're in, given the land that we have, the ability to provide water at site, everything from temperature to the availability of workforce, has us thinking about the ability of kind of building out a campus that is proximate there.

是的，早上好，馬克。我想說，我們現在的主要關注點實際上更偏向主機託管。我們一直在進行的討論將考慮我們擁有的設施、我們所處的位置、我們擁有的土地、現場供水的能力，從溫度到勞動力可用性的一切，讓我們思考是否有能力在附近建造一個校園。

And as we look at developing the work around that, one of the things that our team is doing, and Blain is actually on the call here and could add some color is to think of it sort of in a phased approach where we could deal with customers with sort of what we currently have work to in the interim, derisk what we're thinking of permitting.

當我們考慮圍繞這個問題開發工作時，我們團隊正在做的事情之一，布萊恩實際上正在打電話，可以添加一些色彩，就是以一種分階段的方法來考慮它，我們可以在其中處理對於我們目前正在做的事情的客戶，請不要冒險我們正在考慮允許的事情。

We're thinking about the physical facilities and the way that we could develop the immediate area to be able to make it an even more attractive site for people and then more on a longer-term basis, think about how we would potentially add or create even more efficient. I would say, generation at site to be able to meet their needs from a longer-term perspective. Blain, any color on that? Or I mean, I think that's correct.

我們正在考慮實體設施以及開發鄰近區域的方式，使其成為對人們更具吸引力的場所，然後從長遠來看，考慮如何添加或創建甚至更加高效。我想說，現場世代能夠從更長遠的角度滿足他們的需求。布萊恩，有什麼顏色嗎？或者我的意思是，我認為這是正確的。

I think that's correct, John.

我認為這是正確的，約翰。

And maybe just a follow up that. We've seen other firms filed with the ASO for interconnection of data centers. We haven't seen that on any of your sites. Is that just given the size of the potential load is more manageable when you back up power you guys can serve with your existing sites or units?

也許只是後續行動。我們已經看到其他公司向 ASO 提交了資料中心互連申請。我們還沒有在你們的任何網站上看到這一點。這是否只是考慮到當您為現有站點或設備提供備用電源時，潛在負載的大小更容易管理？

And then, I guess, additionally, what's the sort of conversation around emissions profile, given where your coal to gas conversion units are today on emissions profile. And is solving for that, if there is a requirement around emission profile just up on solution with some of your renewables that you own?

然後，我想，考慮到您的煤改氣裝置目前在排放概況上的位置，圍繞排放概況的討論是什麼樣的。如果您擁有的一些再生能源的解決方案對排放概況有要求，那麼是否正在解決這個問題？

Yeah. Let me see if I can answer all of the questions. Look, we – filing to kind of get an interconnection setup is actually not a difficult thing to do. And we see what's been set up to sort of prospectively serve data centers in the province and it's fine that folks have done that. Frankly, that's not a critical path item from our own perspective.

是的。讓我看看我是否能回答所有問題。看，我們－申請建立互連設定其實並不是一件困難的事情。我們看到已經建立了一些東西來為該省的數據中心提供前瞻性服務，人們已經這樣做了，這很好。坦白說，從我們自己的角度來看，這不是一個關鍵路徑項目。

What we are really focused on is more advancing the conversations and making sure that we're developing the site, so it was just easier for people to make that decision. So are the utilities there? How are we doing from a fiber optic perspective? Can we get the building set up? What are they going to look like? It's so what are the development permits that we need to be able to move things forward.

我們真正關注的是進一步推進對話並確保我們正在開發網站，這樣人們就更容易做出決定。那麼那裡有公用設施嗎？從光纖的角度來看我們做得怎麼樣？我們可以把大樓建起來嗎？他們會是什麼樣子？我們需要什麼開發許可才能推動事情向前發展。

So it's more about that than kind of putting it in an interconnection request. We've got a lot, as you know, from given the legacy sites that we have there, transmission access there. So that's not it's not really, I would say, a gating item, I would say, Blain, in terms of the way that we're looking at it. So would be the first thing.

因此，這不僅僅是將其放入互連請求中。如您所知，我們從那裡的遺留網站和傳輸訪問中獲得了很多東西。所以，我想說，布萊恩，就我們看待它的方式而言，這並不是一個真正的門控項目。所以這是第一件事。

In terms of emissions profile, I would say right now, it's a very interesting topic. I would say the number one priority is probably speed to access to power. Costs are important and then latency is obviously important. I would say what our discussions are right now, emissions profiles would be lane, I would say, kind of a medium to lower order of priority, at least at present.

就排放概況而言，我現在想說，這是一個非常有趣的話題。我想說，第一要務可能是獲得電力的速度。成本很重要，那麼延遲顯然也很重要。我想說的是，我們現在的討論是什麼，排放概況將是車道，我想說，至少目前是中等到低優先順序。

I think over time, you'll see that, that become a priority once I think access and supply ends up being built out. But right now, number one is sort of how quickly can we get something done, can you get us the reliability that we need. And is latency set up well.

我認為隨著時間的推移，你會發現，一旦我認為訪問和供應最終建成，這將成為優先事項。但現在，首要問題是我們能多快完成某件事，能否提供我們所需的可靠性。並且延遲設置得很好。

So that's pretty much a reflection of where I think John mentioned in your remarks that our portfolio and bundled with REX come off of our existing portfolio also provides an attractive alternative to solving that emission profile challenge for certain customer classes.

因此，這很大程度上反映了約翰在您的評論中提到的，我們的產品組合以及與REX 捆綁的產品來自我們現有的產品組合，也為解決某些客戶類別的排放概況挑戰提供了一個有吸引力的替代方案。

And then just a follow-up on what Blain just said, and that's kind of unique for us, given our wind fleet in Alberta, a chunk of which is merchant and also our hydro fleet. So we do have the ability to provide.

然後是布萊恩剛才所說的後續行動，這對我們來說是獨一無二的，因為我們在阿爾伯塔省擁有風力機隊，其中很大一部分是商業機隊，還有我們的水力機隊。所以我們確實有能力提供。

Maybe last question for me. What do you think will come first clarity on what happens at Centralia or what happens on one of your site the presence in Alberta?

也許是我的最後一個問題。您認為首先要弄清楚森特勒利亞發生的情況，或者您在艾伯塔省的某個站點發生的情況？

Mark, I'm kind of smiling because it's a bit of an internal race. You sound like sort of we see sometimes in the office. Look, they're both advancing. And I would say, Blain kind of comparable time lines, I think we would probably have I'd say our discussions are probably a little bit more advanced than Centralia than they would be at Alberta Thermal from a timing perspective.

馬克，我有點微笑，因為這有點像內部競賽。你聽起來就像我們有時在辦公室看到的那樣。瞧，他們兩個都在進步。我想說的是，Blain 類似的時間線，我想我們可能會說，從時間角度來看，我們的討論可能比 Centralia 比 Alberta Thermal 的討論更先進一些。

And the need is acute in terms of what we can provide from a reliability perspective down in the Pacific Northwest. So that would probably have a bit of a slight edge in timing, I would say. But we continue to work worth we continue to work both at the same time, contemporaneously.

從可靠性的角度來看，西北太平洋地區的需求非常迫切。所以我想說，這在時間上可能會有一點優勢。但我們繼續工作，值得我們繼續同時工作。

Great. Okay. Thanks for the time today.

偉大的。好的。謝謝你今天的時間。

Thank you. One moment for our next question. And that will come from the line of Benjamin Pham with BMO. Your line is open. Mr, Pham, are you on mute? Your line is open

謝謝。請稍等一下我們的下一個問題。這將來自 Benjamin Pham 與 BMO 的血統。您的線路已開通。范先生，您處於靜音狀態嗎？您的線路已開通

Hi. Good morning. Maybe on Sundance 6, can you walk through the various puts and takes of the mothball? And I know you mentioned some consolidation of costs and maybe the power prices will respond directionally positively relative to a mothballed unit, but you are losing the EBITDA contribution from it. So I'm just wondering if you're up ahead on that? Are you neutral or a different scenario?

你好。早安.也許在第六屆聖丹斯電影節上，你能介紹一下後備球的各種投球和投球嗎？我知道您提到了一些成本整合，也許電價會相對於封存設備做出積極的方向性反應，但您正在失去其中的 EBITDA 貢獻。所以我只是想知道你是否在這方面領先？你是中立還是有不同的狀況？

Yeah. Good morning, Ben. On Sundance 6, look, we've been like we continuously look at the fleet, and we continue to look at the optimization of the fleet. And we look at that in the context of our confidence in the Heartland transaction and how that might adjust the portfolio of the company as we go forward.

是的。早安，本。在聖丹斯第六屆，看，我們一直在關注機隊，我們繼續關注機隊的優化。我們在對 Heartland 交易充滿信心的背景下看待這一點，以及隨著我們的前進，這可能會如何調整公司的投資組合。

Specifically, on Sun 6 as we see kind of power prices in 2025 and 2026, which is something we predicted in terms of the dip going down. And we look at the capacity factors that we anticipate from our generation, both from K2, K3 and Sun 6, we were pretty comfortable that the right decision for us in the context of all of that.

具體來說，在周日 6 日，我們將看到 2025 年和 2026 年的電價，這是我們預測的下降趨勢。我們查看了我們對 K2、K3 和 Sun 6 這一代產品的預期容量因素，我們對在所有這些背景下做出的正確決定感到非常滿意。

From an EBITDA and value maximization perspective was to mothball Sun 6 and have both K3 and K2 running at higher capacity factors that would have otherwise have been the case if we had all of three units that we're running. We're also pretty comfortable from a hedge position that we have in 2025 and 2026.

從 EBITDA 和價值最大化的角度來看，我們應該封存 Sun 6，並讓 K3 和 K2 以更高的容量係數運行，如果我們擁有所有正在運行的三個裝置，情況就會如此。我們對 2025 年和 2026 年的對沖部位也相當滿意。

And I think it's about 5,500 gigawatt hours of hedges, which translates to about 800 megawatts per hour of a hedge position at kind of those mid-$70 kind of levels. We're comfortable with that. You'll see that 2025 and frankly, even 2026, are a bit a repeat strategically of what we've tactically tried to do in 2024, plus we've got our Hydro fleet and like I said, the potential around Heartland to be able to have the length that we need to be able to manage through all of that process.

我認為這大約是 5,500 吉瓦時的對沖，這相當於每小時 800 兆瓦的對沖頭寸，處於 70 美元左右的水平。我們對此感到滿意。你會發現 2025 年，坦白說，甚至 2026 年，在戰略上有點重複我們在 2024 年戰術上嘗試做的事情，而且我們擁有我們的水電艦隊，就像我說的，中心地帶周圍的潛力能夠我們需要能夠管理整個過程的長度。

The other thing I would say is that Sundance 6 was coming up to a pretty significant turnaround. So there would be significant capital, sustaining capital expenditures that we would need to put into the unit to make sure that we extended it so that it would be fully operational into for the ensuing two years.

我要說的另一件事是，第六屆聖丹斯電影節即將迎來相當重大的轉變。因此，我們需要向該部門投入大量資本，維持資本支出，以確保我們對其進行擴展，使其能夠在接下來的兩年內全面投入營運。

And at least from our own perspective, it just didn't make economic sense to kind of triple up, if you can see with the three units at that particular point in time. So we've deferred that. A lot of the work has been done. We know what we need to do.

至少從我們自己的角度來看，如果你能看到在那個特定時間點的三個單位，那麼將其增加三倍並沒有經濟意義。所以我們推遲了。很多工作已經完成。我們知道我們需要做什麼。

And we put the unit into mothball, we're going to keep it for Q1 where you expect pricing to be more constructive and then we would mothball it. But you should know we're actually keeping a good chunk of that workforce on the payroll.

我們將該設備封存，我們將在第一季保留它，您預計定價會更具建設性，然後我們會將其封存。但你應該知道，我們實際上保留了很大一部分勞動力。

So there will be some redundancy in the organization, and I it's always disappointing when that happens. But in terms of operators and some of the key people that that we need to be able to bring the unit back, I just we want to be clear we're keeping that capability intact while the unit is effectively mothballed. So hopefully, that gives you a bit of color.

因此，組織中將會出現一些冗餘，當這種情況發生時，我總是感到失望。但就我們需要能夠恢復該裝置的操作員和一些關鍵人員而言，我只是想明確表示，在該裝置被有效封存的同時，我們將保持該功能完好無損。希望這能帶給你一些色彩。

No, that's great. And maybe just my other one, I'm just thinking about maybe some of your comments on the 2025 of our guidance early this year. Maybe I think the reference was flat versus 2024, but just given the good results in 2024 now and maybe just some updated assumptions internally. Just a ratio, where are you thinking about with respect to 2025?

不，那太好了。也許只是我的另一個想法，我只是在想您對今年年初我們的 2025 年指導意見的一些評論。也許我認為參考值與 2024 年持平，但只是考慮到 2024 年現在的良好結果，也許只是內部更新了一些假設。只是一個比率，您對 2025 年的看法如何？

Yeah. I can look, I can start and then Joel can chime in. I don't think our view has changed in terms of where we are on 2025. I think given our increasing confidence on Heartland, given kind of the hedge levels that we have, and it's interesting.

是的。我可以看，我可以開始，然後喬爾可以插話。我認為我們對 2025 年的看法沒有改變。我認為考慮到我們對 Heartland 的信心不斷增強，考慮到我們擁有的對沖水平，這很有趣。

Our hedge levels in 2025 at kind of that $75 range begin to approximate about what the gas fleet was able to actually secure over the course of the last quarter, we're pretty highly hedged. We'll have full year production from our new wind generation.

我們 2025 年的對沖水平約為 75 美元，開始接近天然氣車隊在上個季度實際能夠獲得的水平，我們的對沖水平相當高。我們的新型風力發電將實現全年生產。

So, I would say, we feel pretty good about 2025. We're in the final throes of that budgeting work, I would say, Joel, and that will obviously go to the Board, and we'll provide the market with guidance at that point in time. But look, we're we've had we've trended to the upper end of our guidance in 2024, which has been great, but we remain confident about 2025. Joel, I don't know if you.

所以，我想說，我們對 2025 年感覺很好。喬爾，我想說，我們正處於預算工作的最後階段，這顯然將提交給董事會，我們將及時向市場提供指導。但看，我們已經趨向 2024 年指導的上限，這很棒，但我們對 2025 年仍然充滿信心。喬爾，我不知道你是不是。

The only thing I would add there, John, is to comment earlier that we don't have an Investor Day this year, Ben. So we would look to provide guidance here in connection with our Q4 results in mid-February. But to John's point, we're in the middle of our budgeting process right now, but the guidance that we provided earlier in year remains intact.

約翰，我唯一要補充的是早些時候評論說我們今年沒有投資者日，本。因此，我們希望在此提供與 2 月中旬的第四季度業績相關的指導。但就約翰而言，我們現在正處於預算流程的中間，但我們在今年早些時候提供的指導仍然完好無損。

Okay. Great. Maybe just one quick cleanup. What was driving the cash taxes, maybe I missed I didn't I may have missed in your initial remarks, but there's explain in the cash taxes?

好的。偉大的。也許只是一次快速清理。是什麼推動了現金稅，也許我錯過了，我沒有，我可能在你最初的評論中錯過了，但是現金稅中有解釋嗎？

Yeah, Ben. So if you think about in Canada, up until this year, we weren't we had loss carryforwards that we were able to utilize. So think about over the last few years despite higher net income, we were able to keep our tax bill relatively low as we had carryforwards.

是的，本。因此，如果您考慮加拿大，直到今年，我們還沒有能夠利用的損失結轉。因此，想想過去幾年，儘管淨收入較高，但由於我們有結轉，我們仍能夠將稅單保持在相對較低的水平。

Those carryforwards have been exhausted. So as we think about 2024 and beyond what we all see here is a higher effective tax rate, probably closer to our statutory tax rate for your modeling. And so you look to our disclosure in the assumptions, you can see in our cash taxes, we initially kind of guided on our assumptions from $140 million to $160 million. That is now $30 million higher. It's a $160 million kind of mark here for the year. So again, it's just as a result of us exhausting our large carryforwards last year.

這些結轉已用完。因此，當我們考慮 2024 年及以後的情況時，我們在這裡看到的是更高的有效稅率，可能更接近我們模型的法定稅率。所以你看看我們在假設中的揭露，你可以在我們的現金稅中看到，我們最初的假設是從 1.4 億美元到 1.6 億美元。現在增加了 3000 萬美元。今年的銷售額接近 1.6 億美元。再說一遍，這只是我們去年耗盡大量結轉資金的結果。

Okay. Got it. Thank you.

好的。知道了。謝謝。

Yeah.

是的。

Maurice Choy with RBC Capital Markets.

加拿大皇家銀行資本市場部的莫里斯‧蔡 (Maurice Choy)。

Thank you and good morning, everyone. I just want to stick with Sundance six for a moment. If there was no data center opportunity, would your decision today have been different, maybe involving a parent shutdown? And maybe separately, what does this just mean in terms of potential for capacity payments? And if you could just elaborate a little bit about an earlier comment about what this may mean for getting an approval on the Heartland generation deal? I appreciate that.

謝謝大家，早安。我只想暫時繼續看聖丹斯六人組。如果沒有資料中心機會，您今天的決定是否會有所不同，可能涉及關閉母公司？也許單獨來說，這對於容量支付的潛力意味著什麼？您能否詳細說明一下先前的評論，了解這對於獲得 Heartland 發電交易的批准意味著什麼？我很欣賞這一點。

Yeah, Hi. Maybe I'll start with the last one. I don't so there's been no discussions, I would say, with the Competition Bureau as it relates to TransAlta's existing fleet. So I just want to make sure that folks understand that. So the Sundance 6 decision had nothing to do with any kind of a Competition Act kind of approval going forward.

是的，嗨。也許我會從最後一個開始。我不知道，所以我想說，我們沒有與競爭局進行任何與 TransAlta 現有機隊相關的討論。所以我只是想確保人們理解這一點。因此，第六屆聖丹斯電影節的決定與未來任何形式的競爭法批准無關。

Look, we're very much focused on maximizing the optionality of all of the fleet that we have. And we look to do that, at the same time we're trying to maximize kind of the EBITDA that the fleet is going to be able to generate just by being as operationally efficient as we possibly can be.

看，我們非常專注於最大化我們擁有的所有機隊的可選性。我們希望做到這一點，同時我們正在努力透過盡可能提高營運效率來最大限度地提高機隊能夠產生的 EBITDA。

We see a lot of supply coming into the market in 2025. We see a lot of that impacting the market construct that we have there. So from our perspective, it just made sense to match up our generational capabilities with kind of our hedging position make sure that that we were in balance.

我們預計 2025 年將有大量供應進入市場。我們看到很多因素都影響著我們那裡的市場結構。因此，從我們的角度來看，將我們這一代的能力與我們的對沖頭寸相匹配是有意義的，以確保我們處於平衡。

In terms of reliability contracts, I think it's actually a bit of a bigger discussion than just reliability contracts. I mean what we have seen with the RAM and the market redesign in the province of Alberta, is an increasing focus on reliability generally. And on a construct, I would say, that preserves the energy-only market, but kind of does so in a way that sort of I would say, incentivizes capacity going forward. So, that's also something that is prospectively, I think, important for Sundance 6 from a revenue perspective.

就可靠性合約而言，我認為這實際上是比可靠性合約更大的討論。我的意思是，我們在阿爾伯塔省的 RAM 和市場重新設計中看到的是，人們普遍越來越關注可靠性。我想說，在一個結構上，這保留了純能源市場，但我想說的是，這種方式可以激勵未來的產能。因此，我認為，從收入角度來看，這對第六屆聖丹斯電影節來說也很重要。

That's going to take some time to work through. And so what we've done we've kept the unit around. We think it has a lot of value, whether it's reliability, whether there's a market recovery because we are seeing load growth increase in the province. And it just made sense for us to make that decision at that particular point in time.

這需要一些時間來解決。所以我們所做的就是保留這個單位。我們認為它有很大的價值，無論是可靠性，還是市場復甦，因為我們看到該省的負載成長增加。我們在那個特定時間點做出這個決定是有意義的。

We have the ability to bring the unit back if circumstances change. And I think that's a three-month notice period to be able to do that. And meanwhile, we'll be making sure that we keep our operational capabilities to enable us to be able to do that should market change.

如果情況發生變化，我們有能力恢復該設備。我認為需要三個月的通知期才能做到這一點。同時，我們將確保保持我們的營運能力，以便我們能夠在市場發生變化時做到這一點。

And as you know, Maurice, if a data center is announced in the province, and let's say it's a gigawatt in size, that changes the entire supply and demand kind of fundamental within the province. We go from being in a place where we have kind of excess supply compared to the demand, a bit of a supply imbalance to one where it's quite a bit tighter. And we're actually seeing that, I think, in in terms of reserve margins, too.

如你所知，莫里斯，如果在該省宣佈建立一個資料中心，假設其規模為千兆瓦，那麼就會從根本上改變該省內的整個供需情況。與需求相比，我們的供應量從供應過剩、供應有點不平衡，轉變為供應量相當緊張的狀態。我認為，我們實際上在準備金率方面也看到了這一點。

If you roll out 2026, 2027, you end up seeing things tighten up considerably the province. So, we just think there's a lot of value in the units. We just don't think we're going to need it in 2025.

如果你推出 2026 年、2027 年，你最終會看到該省的情況大幅收緊。所以，我們只是認為這些單位有很大的價值。我們只是認為 2025 年我們將不再需要它。

That's a pretty good segue into your comment about repowering for legacy sites. And from my understanding, you now at least have some optionality. Can you describe what we motivate you to go about powering, including market conditions, contracts, electricity policy or even balance sheet position?

這是您關於重新啟動舊網站的評論的一個很好的延續。據我了解，你現在至少有一些選擇。您能否描述一下我們激勵您進行供電的因素，包括市場條件、合約、電力政策甚至資產負債表狀況？

Yeah, and when we think of kind of the legacy fleet that we have in Alberta, at least in my own mind, and Blaine and I and our team, we talk about it all the time, along with Chris, who runs our operations. So, it's K1, Sun 5, Sun 4, potentially Sun 3.

是的，當我們想到我們在艾伯塔省擁有的傳統機隊時，至少在我自己的腦海中，以及布萊恩和我以及我們的團隊，我們一直在與負責我們運營的克里斯一起談論它。所以，是 K1、週日 5、週日 4，可能是星期日 3。

So, there's actually four units that we have. I mean we don't consider Sun 1 and 2 as sort of being part of the mix at this particular point in time.

所以，我們其實有四個單位。我的意思是，在這個特定的時間點，我們不認為週日 1 和星期日 2 是混合的一部分。

I don't think you would see us bring the units back on a merchant basis, to be honest. I think that's more of Sun 6. And I say that in the context of the way that we're thinking about Heartland potentially as well.

老實說，我認為您不會看到我們以商業方式將這些單位帶回來。我認為這更多的是Sun 6。我這麼說也是基於我們對 Heartland 潛在的思考方式。

But if we had data centers or reliability kind of contracting that that made sense to bring those units back in a way justified kind of the capital expenditures required to bring them back to the place where we would be comfortable with them operationally or even upgrade them and make them more efficient. That's what it would require.

但是，如果我們有數據中心或可靠性類型的合同，那麼以合理的資本支出方式將這些設備帶回來是有意義的，以便將它們帶回我們可以放心操作甚至升級它們的地方，讓他們更有效率。這就是它所需要的。

And then just when we look at our cash flow sort of forecasted going forward and our borrowing capacity, Joel, I don't think we see our cells as being particularly financially constrained in terms of being able to do what we need to do from a data center perspective at this point in time.

然後，當我們看到我們的現金流預測以及我們的借貸能力時，喬爾，我認為我們的細胞在能夠做我們需要做的事情方面並沒有受到特別的財務限制。

So, I have to say Maurice, pretty optimistic. Like there's a lot of work to be done, but I feel good about all of the optionality that we have. I mean, candidly, I think we have more optionality than anybody does in the province of Alberta. So I can even like where we are.

所以，我不得不說莫里斯非常樂觀。就像有很多工作要做，但我對我們擁有的所有選擇感到滿意。坦白說，我認為我們比艾伯塔省的任何人都有更多的選擇。所以我甚至可以喜歡我們現在的處境。

That’s good to hear. Thank you very much.

很高興聽到這個消息。非常感謝。

Patrick Kenny with NBF.

NBF 的帕特里克·肯尼。

Thank you. Good morning everyone. John, just back on the Heartland transaction, and I'm just curious how this new macro outlook across North America has changed your view on the Heartland assets more on a relative basis.

謝謝。大家早安。約翰，剛剛回到 Heartland 交易，我只是好奇整個北美的新宏觀前景如何在相對基礎上更多地改變您對 Heartland 資產的看法。

So, i.e., is it still more accretive to shareholder value to close the transaction, even if it means adjusting some of the deal terms just to beef up your Alberta presence or taking that $600-plus million and potentially looking at opportunities outside of Alberta with this new macro outlook, perhaps in certain other US markets.

那麼，也就是說，完成交易是否仍能增加股東價值，即使這意味著調整一些交易條款只是為了增強您在艾伯塔省的影響力，或者拿著這6 億多美元並可能尋找艾伯塔省以外的機會這種新的宏觀前景也許適用於某些其他美國市場。

Yeah. I think So good morning Patrick, look, I would say we're probably more bullish around what we can do with Heartland today, given how we see the market potentially evolving in the province of Alberta over the medium to longer term.

是的。我想早安，帕特里克，我想說，考慮到我們如何看待艾伯塔省中長期市場的潛在發展，我們可能對今天在 Heartland 上能做的事情更加樂觀。

I think the transaction is accretive, we would be hard-pressed to be able to buy assets at this kind of price level anywhere in North America, and I think the returns are really strong. And we have a hyper sort of vigilant focus on returns from a shareholder perspective. That's really what drives our decision-making.

我認為這筆交易是增值的，我們很難在北美任何地方以這種價格水平購買資產，而且我認為回報非常強勁。從股東的角度來看，我們對回報高度警覺。這確實是推動我們決策的因素。

So when we think of the evolution of the province, when we think of the Sheerness Units, for example, which were units that didn't factor sort of prominently, I would say, from a valuation perspective as we were thinking of it. I think those units have more value today in terms of legacy steel in the ground.

因此，當我們想到該省的演變時，例如，當我們想到希爾斯單位時，我想說的是，從我們正在考慮的估值角度來看，這些單位並沒有佔據顯著的地位。我認為，就地下的遺留鋼鐵而言，這些單位如今具有更大的價值。

In terms of our ability to deploy capital in other parts of North America, given the evolution that we're seeing in marketplace is there. We don't feel that we're particularly constrained from a financial perspective to be able to do that. So it's not an either or kind of situation is sort of additive as we look at the two.

就我們在北美其他地區部署資本的能力而言，考慮到我們在市場上看到的演變。我們並不認為從財務角度來看我們能夠做到這一點。因此，當我們看待這兩種情況時，這不是一種非此即彼的情況，而是一種相加的情況。

So we're excited about opportunities that we see in the Pacific Northwest. And we're actually excited about opportunities that we see in the Desert Southwest. We continue to look at both of those areas.

因此，我們對在太平洋西北地區看到的機會感到興奮。事實上，我們對在西南沙漠看到的機會感到興奮。我們將繼續關注這兩個領域。

And we think that in the medium to long-term, there's a lot opportunities in Western Australia as well, which are our core markets. So I think net-net, we feel good overall in terms of where we are.

我們認為，從中長期來看，西澳大利亞州也有很多機會，這是我們的核心市場。所以我認為，就目前的情況而言，我們整體感覺良好。

And to your point, I guess, from a capital allocation standpoint, your own cost of capital has improved quite a bit over the past four or five months. But obviously, at the same time, asset prices are up.

就你的觀點而言，我想，從資本配置的角度來看，你自己的資本成本在過去四、五個月裡已經有了很大改善。但顯然，同時，資產價格也在上漲。

So I'm just curious, how you're thinking about and maybe this is for Joel, but how are you thinking about the buyback program beyond this year's $150 million target versus.

所以我只是好奇，你是如何考慮的，也許這對喬爾來說，但你如何考慮今年 1.5 億美元目標之外的回購計畫。

Yeah.

是的。

When you talked in the past about capital recycling opportunities and maybe getting a bit more aggressive on some strategic M&A?

當您過去談到資本回收機會以及可能在一些策略併購方面採取更積極的態度時？

Yeah. I think, look, why don't I start and then I'll turn it over to Joel. Look, I think the share buyback program, at least from my own perspective, and look, it's something that we talk to our board, and we'll be talking to our Board of our despite part of our 2025 budgeting process.

是的。我想，看，我為什麼不開始，然後把它交給喬爾。看，我認為股票回購計劃，至少從我自己的角度來看，這是我們與董事會討論的事情，儘管我們的 2025 年預算流程的一部分，我們仍將與董事會討論。

But like I think it's a constant lever that, I think we're focused on as a management team. I know our cost of capital has improved, but I still see $1.70. I think, ballpark year-to-date in terms of free cash flow per share. And when I look at that in the context of where we're trading, like I think it's still a deal to buy back shares and create value for our shareholders that way.

但就像我認為這是一個持續的槓桿一樣，我認為我們作為管理團隊正在關注這一點。我知道我們的資金成本有所改善，但我仍然看到 1.70 美元。我認為，就每股自由現金流而言，今年迄今為止的情況大約是這樣。當我在我們交易的背景下看待這一點時，我認為這仍然是一項回購股票並以這種方式為我們的股東創造價值的交易。

So it's something that balance is important, like we can't let our fleet and our business atrophy. We're going to have to continue to make investments and move that along. But certainly, when opportunities present themselves to do share buybacks to support our price and to create that value, I think it's going to be definitely one of the things that we'll be looking at from a capital allocation perspective, Joel?

因此，平衡很重要，就像我們不能讓我們的機隊和業務萎縮一樣。我們將不得不繼續進行投資並推動這一進程。但當然，當有機會進行股票回購以支持我們的價格並創造價值時，我認為這絕對是我們從資本配置角度考慮的事情之一，喬爾？

Yeah, I agree, John. And the other thing, Pat, is that as mentioned earlier, is when we come out with our 2025 guidance in February, I think we'll have more color around that, say, with respect to the dividend and obviously, if there's going to be any extension of the share buyback in 2025 at that point in time.

是的，我同意，約翰。帕特，另一件事是，正如前面提到的，當我們在 2 月份發布 2025 年指導時，我認為我們會有更多的色彩，比如說，關於股息，顯然，如果有的話是2025年股票回購的任何延期。

But to John's point, we remain committed to fulfilling the full $150 million.

但就 John 而言，我們仍然致力於全額履行 1.5 億美元的任務。

Yeah.

是的。

This year, we're around 76% complete as the end of the quarter. So we'll look to wind that up here by the end of the year at $150 million.

今年，截至本季末，我們已完成 76% 左右。因此，我們希望在今年年底前將金額達到 1.5 億美元。

And just maybe, Joel, as a sneak peak, I mean, how would you rank deleveraging in the priority list versus accelerating growth opportunities for next year?

喬爾，作為一個先睹為快，我的意思是，您如何看待明年優先事項清單中的去槓桿化與加速成長機會？

Pat, on that, we do maintain a very strong balance sheet. When you look at our leverage rate now on adjusted EBITDA of around 3.2 turns of debt to EBITDA at this point in time. And it's crept up a bit, but still in line with our BBB or BB+ credit ratings.

帕特，就此而言，我們確實保持著非常強勁的資產負債表。當您查看我們調整後 EBITDA 的槓桿率時，此時債務與 EBITDA 的比率約為 3.2 倍。它略有上升，但仍符合我們的 BBB 或 BB+ 信用評級。

So as we balance that going forward, share buybacks, further capital allocation along with maintaining a strong balance sheet. So to the extent we see opportunities to further strengthen the balance sheet through reducing our debt, we'll look to that, but we see other opportunities right now given that we are very comfortable with our leverage levels.

因此，當我們在未來平衡這一點時，我們會進行股票回購、進一步的資本配置以及保持強勁的資產負債表。因此，如果我們看到透過減少債務來進一步加強資產負債表的機會，我們會關注這一點，但鑑於我們對槓桿水平非常滿意，我們現在看到了其他機會。

We don't really have any expiries in the near term. I mean, we have $400 million about this time next year-ish. So we're in pretty good shape in terms of do you know what I mean, Patrick, in terms of kind any kind of expiries that we're needing to manage through.

短期內我們確實沒有任何到期的情況。我的意思是，明年這個時候我們大約有 4 億美元。因此，就我們需要應對的任何類型的到期而言，帕特里克，你知道我的意思嗎？

Okay. That’s great. I’ll leave it there guys. Thanks.

好的。那太好了。我會把它留在那裡，夥計們。謝謝。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Thank you. One moment for our next question. And that will come from the line of John Mould with TD Securities. Your line is open.

謝謝。請稍等一下我們的下一個問題。這將來自道明證券 (TD Securities) 的約翰·莫爾德 (John Mold)。您的線路已開通。

Hi. Good morning everybody. Continuing on the data center theme, I wonder if you could touch on the question of bring your own power and the policy direction here. How well understood is both the current supply surplus and the arguable spare capacity that a company like yourselves has at just given that Alberta's chief advantage in this theme seems to be potential speed to market. And when are you expecting to see clarity on the rules of the road here, both from the data center perspective and the power provider perspective?

你好。大家早安。繼續談資料中心這個話題，不知道你能不能談一下自帶力量和政策方向的問題。鑑於阿爾伯塔省在這一主題上的主要優勢似乎是潛在的上市速度，對當前的供應過剩和像你們這樣的公司剛剛擁有的有爭議的閒置產能有多麼容易理解。您期望什麼時候從資料中心的角度和電力提供者的角度看到這裡的交通規則？

Yeah. Good morning, John. Look, that's a bit of a hard one to answer. And maybe what I'll say is this, look, our province has been very clearly supportive of data centers coming into the jurisdiction. I mean, the government has been involved in missions, for example, into the Silicon Valley where they've been trying to socialize the opportunity that sets the opportunity set that Alberta provides. I think what's going to be required here is balance.

是的。早安，約翰。聽著，這個問題有點難回答。也許我要說的是，你看，我們省一直非常明確地支持資料中心進入管轄範圍。我的意思是，政府一直在參與任務，例如，進入矽谷，他們一直在努力將機會社會化，從而創造了艾伯塔省提供的機會。我認為這裡需要的是平衡。

So having a lot of load come into the jurisdiction in a way that has a significant impact on power pricing by tightening up the market, I think, is something that I think the government and the ISO was probably leery of. They want to make sure that the grid remains reliable.

因此，我認為，大量負載進入管轄範圍，透過收緊市場對電價產生重大影響，我認為政府和 ISO 可能對此持懷疑態度。他們希望確保電網保持可靠。

So when you hear things like bring your own power, I think what folks are saying, I think to me anyways, that's code for, let's do this in a balanced way and make sure that the system remains, affordable, reliable, and we continue to decarbonize it over a period of time.

因此，當你聽到諸如自帶電源之類的事情時，我想人們在說什麼，無論如何，我認為這就是代碼，讓我們以平衡的方式做到這一點，並確保系統保持不變，負擔得起，可靠，我們繼續在一段時間內使其脫碳。

I think that's where we have an advantage, because we have a lot of capacity candidly that with relatively modest capital investments, we can bring back from a speed to market perspective, and it would be additive generation, if you see what I'm saying, in terms of being able to flex up and be able to make sure that that three-legged stool I mentioned of reliability, affordability and sustainability kind of remains over the longer term.

我認為這就是我們的優勢所在，因為坦白說，我們擁有大量產能，只需相對適度的資本投資，我們就可以從市場速度的角度恢復，這將是附加發電，如果你明白我的意思的話，就能夠彎曲並能夠確保我提到的可靠性、可承受性和可持續性的三足凳子而言，從長遠來看仍然存在。

So I think this is something that we can navigate. I don't know that it requires Blain, I would say I don't know there requires a lot of regulatory intervention for us to get there. I think it just requires discipline and making sure that we can match reasonably supply and demand as it comes through.

所以我認為這是我們可以引導的。我不知道這需要布萊恩，我想說我不知道我們需要大量的監管幹預才能實現這一目標。我認為這只需要紀律，並確保我們能夠合理地匹配供應和需求。

That's very helpful. Thanks very much for that. And just clearly, the focus of our call has been on optionality at Wabamun and Centralia and not so much on the broader renewables portfolio and your potential development pipeline.

這非常有幫助。非常感謝。很明顯，我們呼籲的重點是 Wabamun 和 Centralia 的可選擇性，而不是更廣泛的再生能源投資組合和潛在的開發管道。

So just wondering how is your development team how are your development teams currently spending their time on kind of Canada versus the US, but also on the thermal opportunity set or maybe I'll rephrase that as the reliability opportunity set because that would include storage as well versus some of the more traditional renewable power projects that you've had in your earlier-stage pipeline historically?

因此，我只是想知道您的開發團隊目前在加拿大和美國的情況如何，而且在熱機會集上的情況如何，或者我可能會將其改寫為可靠性機會集，因為這將包括存儲與您歷史上早期階段的一些較傳統的再生能源專案相比？

Yeah. So look, we continue to advance kind of our clean electricity growth plan, that remains a priority for us. We had our near-term projects had an Alberta flavor, as you know, and we paused those given that we were wanting to see the REM develop here in the province of Alberta and get a sense of confidence around the fidelity of the price.

是的。因此，我們將繼續推動清潔電力成長計劃，這仍然是我們的首要任務。如您所知，我們的近期項目具有阿爾伯塔風格，但我們暫停了這些項目，因為我們希望看到 REM 在阿爾伯塔省的發展，並對價格的保真度抱有信心。

So when you look at sort of the activities of the team right now, I would say probably half of the team's efforts would be spent on kind of create value from the legacy assets. I think it's a pretty significant opportunity set and the returns are significant for our shareholders. They are candidly returns that would be significantly in excess of what I would say conventional power development would provide. So I think it's critical that we allocate the resources to kind of capture that opportunity set.

因此，當您查看團隊現在的各種活動時，我想說，團隊的一半努力可能會花在從遺留資產中創造價值。我認為這是一個非常重要的機會，對我們的股東來說回報也很可觀。坦白說，它們的回報將大大超過我所說的傳統電力開發所能提供的回報。因此，我認為分配資源來抓住這個機會至關重要。

But having said that, we continue to look at opportunities from a renewables perspective. The focus is definitely on the pipeline, managing it, making sure that we've got good opportunities in kind of what we're considering to be our priority markets, which are more Western North America phased as opposed to more in the SPP, where we were initially a little bit more focused, but the team is working on advancing projects.

但話雖如此，我們仍繼續從再生能源的角度尋找機會。重點肯定是在管道上，對其進行管理，確保我們在我們考慮的優先市場中獲得良好的機會，這些市場更多是北美西部分階段的，而不是 SPP 中的更多機會，其中我們最初更加專注，但團隊正在努力推進專案。

They're working on expanding the pipeline. They're actually doing some pretty creative things on the pipeline, to be honest, that they're still nascent, so we can't kind of give you a color on that, but that's something that we're excited about.

他們正在努力擴大管道。老實說，他們實際上正在做一些非常有創意的事情，他們仍然處於萌芽階段，所以我們無法給你透露具體訊息，但這是我們感到興奮的事情。

And we continue to work on a couple of large projects that hopefully will be very impactful for the company. So it's quite a quite a mix of, I would say, the conventional the unconventional and by unconventional, I mean, in terms of fuels and kind of the bread-and-butter legacy assets in terms of going forward. The team is busy. Our challenge is actually, John, finding and hiring capable people that can move it along. So that's what we've been doing to make sure that we've got the capacity to deal with it.

我們繼續致力於幾個大型項目，希望這些項目將對公司產生非常大的影響。因此，我想說，這是傳統和非常規的混合體，我的意思是，就燃料和未來發展而言，傳統的傳統資產是非常規的。團隊很忙。約翰，我們的挑戰實際上是尋找並僱用有能力的人才來推動它向前發展。這就是我們一直在做的事情，以確保我們有能力應對這個問題。

Okay. That's great. Thanks. And then maybe just one last one on ancillaries, both the quarterly result and just the market more broadly, pretty good performance, both on volumes and price realizations there despite pretty reasonable spark spreads given the energy price, which can have the effect of it's just an interesting dynamic there.

好的。那太棒了。謝謝。然後也許只是輔助設備的最後一項，無論是季度業績還是更廣泛的市場，儘管考慮到能源價格，火花價差相當合理，但在數量和價格實現方面都表現相當不錯，這可能會產生以下影響：那裡有一個有趣的動態。

I'm just wondering a little more color on how you're seeing the market. Did the Intertie outage play a part in the ancillary demand this quarter? And then looking forward, how are you feeling about how the ancillary services piece of the REM is unfolding, recognizing it's very early days still there?

我只是想知道您如何看待市場。Intertie 停電是否對本季的輔助需求產生了影響？然後展望未來，您對 REM 的輔助服務部分的發展有何感想，並認識到它還處於早期階段？

Yeah. Look, I'll maybe try to deal with the last part first. I can't give you a lot of color on how the REM is developing from an AS perspective. I think that's really early days. I think the discussions have been focused more on what I would call the conventional energy market rather than kind of the supplementary parts market and Hydro's role in meeting those particular needs, John.

是的。聽著，我也許會先嘗試處理最後一部分。我無法從 AS 角度詳細介紹 REM 的發展。我認為這還為時過早。我認為討論更多地集中在我所說的傳統能源市場，而不是補充零件市場以及海德魯在滿足這些特殊需求方面的作用，約翰。

But look, I think we feel pretty confident that our hydro fleet is going to be valuable and will continue to perform well. I mean, just look at where we are this year. We've got average pricing this year that is sort of in that I think year-to-date, we're about $65 or something like that in the province, and we'll get over $300 million with our hydro fleet as we go forward.

但是看，我認為我們非常有信心我們的水力船隊將很有價值並且將繼續表現良好。我的意思是，看看我們今年的情況。我們今年的平均價格是這樣的，我認為今年迄今為止，我們在全省的價格約為 65 美元或類似的價格，隨著我們的發展，我們的水力車隊將獲得超過 3 億美元的收入向前。

We're also seeing the ISO procuring more AS, which is interesting. And I think that's just a reflection of the kind of volatility that we're seeing as the grid evolves. I mean there was a time like three years ago, I would say, Blain, when the kind of scale of inter hour kind of variation in supply would have been more in the 400 or 500-megawatt range.

我們也看到 ISO 採購了更多 AS，這很有趣。我認為這只是我們在電網發展過程中所看到的波動性的反映。我的意思是，布萊恩，我想說的是，像三年前那樣，當時供應的每小時變化規模在 400 或 500 兆瓦範圍內。

We're seeing like 2,000 megawatts in terms of variation that can occur if the wind drops off or it's evening and our solar ends up going away. So the need to kind of respond to that and to make sure that the grid is reliable from a frequency perspective. So, when we look at our Hydro, there's kind of nothing better. I mean, it's better than batteries in our view, particularly for regulating reserves. And I think what you're seeing is just a reflection of the need for those services as the market kind of evolves over time.

如果風力減弱或是晚上並且我們的太陽能最終消失，我們會看到大約 2,000 兆瓦的變化。因此需要對此做出反應並確保電網從頻率角度來看是可靠的。所以，當我們審視我們的 Hydro 時，沒有什麼比這更好的了。我的意思是，在我們看來，它比電池更好，特別是在調節儲備方面。我認為您所看到的只是隨著市場隨著時間的推移而發展而對這些服務的需求的反映。

So, like I'm pretty confident that we're going to have good hydro performance going forward. And look, I think we almost got to 900 in terms of the quantity of AS that was procured in the last quarter, which is like exceptionally high. I don't recall us ever having that level. So I think it's strong on product.

所以，我非常有信心我們未來將擁有良好的水力性能。看，我認為就上個季度採購的 AS 數量而言，我們幾乎達到了 900 個，這非常高。我不記得我們曾經有過這樣的水平。所以我認為它在產品上很強大。

Okay. That’s great. I'll leave it there. Thanks very much.

好的。那太好了。我會把它留在那裡。非常感謝。

That is all the time we have for Q&A today. I would now like to turn the call back over to Ms. Valentini for any closing remarks.

這就是我們今天問答的全部時間。我現在想將電話轉回給瓦倫蒂尼女士，請其發表結束語。

Great. Thank you, everyone. That concludes our call for today. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to reach out to the IR team here at TransAlta. Thank you very much, and have a great day.

偉大的。謝謝大家。我們今天的呼籲到此結束。如果您還有任何其他問題，請隨時聯絡 TransAlta 的 IR 團隊。非常感謝，祝您有美好的一天。

This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。