Smurfit WestRock PLC (SW) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Smurfit WestRock 2024 full year results webcast and conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Ciaran Potts, Smurfit WestRock Group Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

您好，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 Smurfit WestRock 2024 年全年業績網路直播和電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。現在，我想將會議移交給 Smurfit WestRock 集團投資者關係副總裁 Ciaran Potts。請繼續。

Thanks, Hardy. Just as a reminder, statements in today's earnings release and presentation and the comments made by management during this call may be considered forward-looking statements. These statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations and projections.

謝謝，哈代。需要提醒的是，今天的收益報告和介紹中的陳述以及管理層在本次電話會議中所發表的評論可能被視為前瞻性陳述。這些聲明受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與我們的預期和預測有重大差異。

Those risks and uncertainties include but are not limited to the factors identified in the earnings relief and in our SEC filings. The company undertakes no obligation to revise any forward-looking statements. Today's remarks also refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliation to the most comparable GAAP measures are included in today's earnings release and in the appendix to the presentation, which are available at investors.smurfitwestrock.com.

這些風險和不確定性包括但不限於收益減免和我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中確定的因素。該公司不承擔修改任何前瞻性陳述的義務。今天的言論也涉及某些非公認會計準則財務指標。今天的收益報告和簡報附錄中包含了與最具可比性的 GAAP 指標的對賬，可在 investors.smurfitwestrock.com 上查閱。

Before handing over to Tony, given we have the full day of investment engagement, I'd ask you to limit your questions to two. And should you require any clarifications on what we are discussing today, myself and Frank, we'll do our best to make ourselves available after the call.

在交給托尼之前，考慮到我們有一整天的投資活動，我要求你們將問題限制在兩個以內。如果您需要對我們今天討論的內容進行任何澄清，我和弗蘭克會盡力在通話結束後為您提供幫助。

I'll now hand you over to Tony Smurfit, CEO of Smurfit WestRock.

現在我將您交給 Smurfit WestRock 執行長 Tony Smurfit。

Thank you, Ciaran, and good morning and good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for taking the time to join us today.

謝謝你，Ciaran，大家早安，下午好，謝謝你們今天抽出時間參加我們的活動。

As you will have seen from this morning's release, we have reported a strong fourth quarter performance with an adjusted EBITDA of USD1.166 billion and an adjusted EBITDA margin of 15.5%. Importantly, for the full year 2024, we delivered a combined adjusted EBITDA outcome of USD4.706 billion, fully consistent with our stated guidance back in October.

正如您從今天早上的發布中看到的，我們報告了強勁的第四季度業績，調整後的 EBITDA 為 11.66 億美元，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 15.5%。重要的是，2024 年全年，我們實現的綜合調整後 EBITDA 為 47.06 億美元，與我們 10 月公佈的指引完全一致。

On July 5 last year, Smurfit Kappa combined with WestRock to create the new Smurfit WestRock Company. The scale and dimension of this company is quite remarkable. As you can see from this map, we have many operating facilities in many regions across the world with principal operations in North America with approximately 60% of our business, EMEA and APAC with 33% of our business, with the balance being in Latin America and that's based on revenue.

去年7月5日，Smurfit Kappa與WestRock合併，成立新的Smurfit WestRock公司。這家公司的規模和規模相當驚人。從這張地圖上你可以看出，我們在全球許多地區都擁有許多營運設施，主要業務在北美，約佔業務的 60%，歐洲、中東和非洲以及亞太地區佔業務的 33%，其餘在拉丁美洲，這是基於收入的。

Our combination created the go to sustainable packaging partner of choice with an unrivaled product portfolio expertise and scale. To put that into numbers, the number of converting facilities, whether they be in corrugated, consumer, bag and box, sack conversion, or specialty packaging, is over 500 units, with 62 mills again in different areas of sustainable packaging, corrugated papers, consumer papers, and some specialty papers.

我們的強強聯合，創造了我們首選的可持續包裝合作夥伴，擁有無與倫比的產品組合專業知識和規模。具體來說，無論是瓦楞紙、消費品、袋裝和紙盒、麻袋轉換還是特種包裝，轉換設施的數量都超過 500 個，其中 62 個工廠分佈在可持續包裝、瓦楞紙、消費品用紙和一些特種紙等不同領域。

To support our paper mills, we have over 14 million tonnes of wastepaper which we process as well as having our own forestry of some 300,000 acres, principally in Brazil and Colombia. With over 100,000 people worldwide operating in 40 countries generating net sales of over $31 billion last year, it's important to remember that in creating this company we didn't want it to be just big, but we wanted it to be the best. And you can only be the best in any industry if you have the right management team.

為了支持我們的造紙廠，我們加工了超過1400萬噸廢紙，並且擁有自己的約30萬英畝的林地，主要位於巴西和哥倫比亞。該公司在全球 40 個國家擁有超過 10 萬名員工，去年的淨銷售額超過 310 億美元，重要的是要記住，在創建這家公司時，我們不僅希望它規模大，而且希望它成為最好的。如果你擁有合適的管理團隊，你就能成為任何產業的佼佼者。

Every business will of course say that people are their greatest assets to the point that one can be jaded by this statement. But I will say that the Smurfit WestRock leadership team right through all levels is a team that is stable, experienced, and has navigated many different challenges over the years, while at the same time consistently delivering against all performance metrics.

當然，每個企業都會說，人才是他們最大的資產，甚至有人會對這種說法感到厭倦。但我要說的是，Smurfit WestRock 各個層級的領導團隊都是一支穩定、經驗豐富的團隊，多年來已經克服了許多不同的挑戰，同時始終如一地達到了所有績效指標。

This team and the broader team grew the EBITDA margin of legacy Smurfit Kappa from 13.8% to 18.5%; [Rosy] from 12% to 17.1%, reduced the leverage from multiple from 2.8 times to 1.4 times and increased the dividend 10 times.

該團隊和更廣泛的團隊將傳統 Smurfit Kappa 的 EBITDA 利潤率從 13.8% 提高到了 18.5%； [Rosy] 從 12% 提高到 17.1%，將槓桿率從 2.8 倍降低到 1.4 倍，並將股息提高 10 倍。

In parallel, we've invested capital to continually improve the asset base and to support customer growth. I'm proud to say we have built an irreplaceable and high-quality asset base and footprint that is globally unique. In short, most of this team were responsible for the transformation of the former Kappa Group and successfully delivered for its stakeholders.

同時，我們投入資金不斷改善資產基礎並支持客戶成長。我很自豪地說，我們已經建立了全球獨一無二的無可取代的高品質資產基礎和足跡。簡而言之，團隊的大部分成員負責前 Kappa 集團的轉型，並成功地為其利害關係人帶來了成果。

We have done this by very simply sticking to our knitting. We apply an owner operator-model and a performance led culture with decentralized operations where every manager has P&L responsibility for their own operating units. This of course means a sharp commercial focus whereby the company supports management to improve efficiency, operating costs, and to deliver for our customers.

我們透過堅守自己的本職工作做到了這一點。我們採用業主經營者模式和績效主導的文化，進行分散運營，每個經理都對自己的營運單位的損益負有責任。這當然意味著要高度重視商業，公司將支持管理層提高效率、降低營運成本並為客戶提供服務。

And of course, this can only be done if we reward and continually train our people at all levels of the organization to make them feel unique and part of a unique culture. This is what essentially has led to the success of Smurfit Kappa.

當然，要做到這一點，我們只有獎勵並不斷培訓組織各個層級的員工，讓他們覺得自己是獨一無二的、並成為獨特文化的一部分。這正是 Smurfit Kappa 成功的根本原因。

So in essence our team and many of our new colleagues from Legacy WestRock have joined together so that we can have a successful, bigger, and brighter future together at Smurfit West Rock. A lot has already been done.

因此，從本質上講，我們的團隊和來自 Legacy WestRock 的許多新同事已經聯合起來，以便我們能夠在 Smurfit West Rock 共同擁有成功、更大、更光明的未來。很多工作已經完成。

Firstly, we delivered the plan at $4.7 billion of adjusted EBITDA, we did what we said we were going to do. Secondly, we developed a synergy program which we are more than confident we're going to meet, if not exceed, the $400 million, and this will be completed by the end of the current year with the benefits realized this year and next.

首先，我們以 47 億美元的調整後 EBITDA 實現了計劃，我們按照承諾去做了。其次，我們制定了一項協同計劃，我們非常有信心能夠達到甚至超過 4 億美元的目標，並且該計劃將在今年年底前完成，並在今年和明年實現效益。

Thirdly, as we've delved into the business, we've seen many more opportunities than initially thought, at least in excess of $400 million -- an additional $400 million. We believe that by unleashing the power of our people, there are significant operating improvements through cost takeout, commercial approach, and quick wing Capexes to release greater profitability.

第三，隨著我們深入研究這個業務，我們看到了比最初想像的更多的機會，至少超過 4 億美元——額外的 4 億美元。我們相信，透過釋放員工的力量，可以透過降低成本、採用商業化方式和快速資本支出來顯著改善運營，從而釋放更大的獲利能力。

As you know, I and my senior colleagues have now visited a significant majority of the facilities. And while there will always be work to be done in our operations across the world, in the current year we have revised our estimated capital spend to somewhere between $2.2 and $2.4 billion which reflects the strong positioning of the assets. But as I said before, without assets -- as I said before, assets without people are nothing. Bad assets can make you money if you have good people, and the contrary is also true.

正如你們所知，我和我的資深同事現在已經參觀了絕大多數設施。雖然我們的全球營運中總是有工作要做，但今年我們已將預計資本支出修改為 22 億美元至 24 億美元之間，這反映了資產的強勁定位。但正如我之前所說，沒有資產——正如我之前所說，沒有人，資產就毫無意義。如果你有優秀的人才，不良資產可以讓你賺錢，反之亦然。

I've been so happy in my visits both in Atlanta and the operations around the world to see the enthusiasm and buying of people to contribute to the success of the new Smurfit WestRock. In the seven months, I believe there has been a tremendous foundation and platform for growth for the future.

我在訪問亞特蘭大以及世界各地的業務時非常高興地看到人們的熱情和購買力，為新 Smurfit WestRock 的成功做出貢獻。在這七個月裡，我相信我們為未來的發展奠定了巨大的基礎和平台。

Of course, along the way with our model of decentralization and making accountability lie at the closest area it can to customers, it has been necessary to streamline the business. And in this process so far in North America, Mexico, and the rest of the world, over 1,000 people have or will be leaving the company. That said, we've also initiated a major program to train and develop our talents as we invest behind our people. Like you in the investment community, we believe in investing in good management.

當然，在我們推行權力下放模式以及將責任置於最接近客戶的地方的過程中，精簡業務是必要的。到目前為止，在北美、墨西哥和世界其他地區，已有 1,000 多人已經或即將離開公司。儘管如此，我們在投資員工的同時，也啟動了一項重大計畫來培訓和發展我們的人才。就像投資界的你們一樣，我們相信投資在好的管理。

In addition to this, over the years we're continuously optimizing our production. Difficult decisions have been made to streamline assets, and you will see from this slide that both Smurfit and WestRock continue to optimize production in both converting and in mills over the recent period. But these are always difficult decisions. They make for a much healthier and stronger company in the long term.

除此之外，多年來我們一直在不斷優化生產。他們做出了艱難的決定來精簡資產，從這張幻燈片中您將看到，Smurfit 和 WestRock 在最近一段時間內都在繼續優化轉化和工廠的生產。但這些始終都是艱難的決定。從長遠來看，它們將使公司變得更健康、更強大。

Well, of course, closing is always difficult. Investing for growth is something we've been continually doing also. Across our world, whether it's in North America, EMEA, and APAC or Latin America, converting mills or specialties where we see opportunities for growth, we will invest behind them.

當然，結束總是很困難的。為了成長而進行的投資也是我們一直在做的事情。在我們世界各地，無論是在北美、歐洲、中東和非洲、亞太地區或拉丁美洲，只要我們看到有成長機會的工廠或專業企業，我們就會對其進行投資。

The examples on this page represent over $750 million of investment in just a few plants phased over a number of years, highlighting the commitment we have to ensuring this company continues to get stronger in order to serve our customers in an efficient and productive way. These examples are purely for illustrative purposes because across all of our facilities worldwide, we're investing for growth or cost reduction to ensure our future success, assuming, of course, these projects meet our expected rate of returns.

本頁中的範例代表了在幾年內分階段建設的幾家工廠中超過 7.5 億美元的投資，突顯了我們致力於確保公司繼續發展壯大，以便以高效和富有成效的方式為客戶服務的承諾。這些例子純粹是為了說明目的，因為在我們全球的所有工廠中，我們都在為成長或降低成本而進行投資，以確保我們未來的成功，當然，假設這些項目符合我們預期的回報率。

While we're at the beginning of our journey, it seems hard to believe it's only been just a little over seven months since we completed our combination July 5. What we clearly see is that we will be able to capitalize on our excellent market positions and asset quality to ensure our customers receive their products in the most efficient and reliable way.

雖然我們的旅程才剛開始，但似乎很難相信自 7 月 5 日我們完成合併以來才過了七個多月。我們清楚地看到，我們將能夠利用我們卓越的市場地位和資產質量，確保我們的客戶以最高效、最可靠的方式收到他們的產品。

We see the opportunity to continue to empower and motivate our people who are and want to be part of our winning team. We believe that we are sharpening our commercial focus across the organization to ensure our efforts and investments have attractive returns. We're committed with our vast data bank of innovative solutions in all areas of our business to ensure that we give our customers the right innovations and at the right price.

我們看到了繼續授權和激勵我們的員工以及希望成為我們勝利團隊一員的機會。我們相信，我們正在加強整個組織的商業重點，以確保我們的努力和投資獲得可觀的回報。我們致力於利用我們業務各個領域的創新解決方案的龐大資料庫來確保以合適的價格為客戶提供合適的創新。

And there'll be no change to our operating financial model, which is a proven success. We are aligned as senior management as shareholders in the company And we'll continue to think of capital as a scarce resource which must pay off so that any capital allocations and decisions that we make are in the best interests of all stakeholders. It is a philosophy that has been around this company from the 1930s all the way through to today.

我們的營運財務模式不會有任何改變，事實證明這是成功的。我們作為公司的高階主管和股東是一致的，我們將繼續將資本視為一種稀缺資源，必須有回報，以便我們做出的任何資本分配和決策都符合所有利害關係人的最佳利益。這一理念自 20 世紀 30 年代一直延續到今天。

And now pass you to Ken who'll take you through the financials.

現在請 Ken 為您講解財務狀況。

Thank you, Tony. Good morning and good afternoon, everyone, and thank you again for joining us.

謝謝你，托尼。大家早安，下午好，再次感謝大家的參與。

As you can see from the highlights slide here on slide 14, the business delivered a strong four quarter performance with net sales of over $7.5 billion, adjusted EA in line with our guidance of $1.166 billion, and even margin of 15.5%, and adjusted free cash flow of almost $260 million.

從第 14 頁的精彩內容中您可以看到，該業務在四個季度表現強勁，淨銷售額超過 75 億美元，調整後的 EA 符合我們的 11.66 億美元預期，利潤率甚至達到 15.5%，調整後的自由現金流接近 2.6 億美元。

We are starting 2025 and our transformation journey from a position of significant. Strength thanks to the hard work of the teams globally, and their dedication to the customers, and to creating the most innovative and sustainable paper-based packaging company in the world.

我們正從一個重要的位置開啟2025年和我們的轉型之旅。我們的實力源於全球團隊的辛勤工作、對客戶的奉獻以及創建世界上最具創新性和可持續性的紙質包裝公司。

Turning now to the reported performance of our three segments in the quarter and starting with North America, where our operations delivered sales of $4.6 billion with adjusted EBITDA of $710 billion and a very solid adjusted EBITDA margin of 15.4%. Looking at the historical performance of the segment on a combined non-GAAP basis as per the AK filed on '24 September last, we saw a significant marginal improvement year-on -year, primarily due to higher selling prices, with cost headwinds on items such as fiber sourcing and labor being more than offset by lower energy and distribution costs and by reduced economic downtime.

現在來看看本季我們三個部門的報告業績，首先是北美地區，我們的業務實現了 46 億美元的銷售額，調整後的 EBITDA 為 7100 億美元，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率高達 15.4%。按照去年 9 月 24 日提交的 AK，以非 GAAP 為基礎查看該部門的歷史業績，我們發現同比有顯著的邊際改善，這主要歸因於銷售價格上漲，而纖維採購和勞動力等項目的成本阻力被能源和分銷成本的降低以及經濟停工時間的減少所抵消。

Out first hihh Corruggated box pricing was higher compared to the prior year, while box volumes were broadly stable on both an absolute and same day basis.

首先，瓦楞紙箱的價格與前一年相比有所上漲，而紙箱數量無論在絕對數量上還是在當天數量上都基本保持穩定。

Our third-party paper sales saw mid-single digit growth in the quarter, and consumer packaging also performed well with volume growth of over 2% when compared to the prior year. As Tony mentioned, we have taken significant actions to streamline the central functions of the segment and to continue to optimize and invest in the asset base.

本季度，我們的第三方紙張銷售額實現了中等個位數成長，消費包裝也表現良好，銷量與上年相比增長了 2% 以上。正如托尼所提到的，我們已採取重大舉措精簡該部門的核心職能，並繼續優化和投資資產基礎。

Crucially, our long-standing philosophy of delivering value over volumes began on day one and has been embraced right across the legacy operations. Transfers and the roll out of our unique innovation applications has commenced, and we are changing the business model to drive profit responsibility at the mill and the box fans. While retaining strong central capital controls, where we see significant opportunities to replicate a performance led and owner operator owner operator culture to deliver for our customers and to drive profitable growth.

至關重要的是，我們從第一天起就秉持「價值重於數量」的長期理念，並已在整個傳統營運中貫徹。我們的獨特創新應用的轉移和推出已經開始，我們正在改變商業模式以推動工廠和箱式風扇的利潤責任。在保留強有力的中央資本控制的同時，我們看到了複製以績效為主導、業主運營商業主運營商文化的重大機遇，從而為我們的客戶提供服務並推動盈利增長。

Looking now at our MENA-APAC division where the segment delivered sales of $2.5 billion, with adjusted EBITDA of $371 million, and an 7 EBITDA margin of 14.7%. Set against the backdrop of what was a challenging year for the wider sector, which we now believe is behind us. In the region, our operations continue to demonstrate exceptional resilience as sales remain stable, with adjusted adjusted EBITDA margin, only modestly lower compared to the prior year.

現在來看看我們的 MENA-APAC 部門，該部門的銷售額為 25 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 3.71 億美元，7 EBITDA 利潤率為 14.7%。今年對整個產業來說都是充滿挑戰的一年，但我們相信，困難已經過去。在該地區，我們的業務繼續表現出卓越的韌性，因為銷售額保持穩定，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率僅略低於去年。

Mostly due to higher recovered fiber and to a lesser degree, higher labor costs, which were only partially offset by lower energy and distribution costs at higher box volumes. Corrugated box prices were broadly unchanged while box volumes were 1% higher on an absolute and flat on a same day basis.

主要是由於回收纖維較高，其次是勞動成本較高，但隨著箱量增加，能源和配送成本較低只能部分抵銷這些成本的增加。瓦楞紙箱價格基本保持不變，而紙箱銷量絕對值上漲 1%，且當日銷量持平。

Our commitment to innovation, cost, discipline and quality has reinforced our reputation as not only the largest integrated player in the region, but also the most reliable packaging and supply chain partner for our customers.

我們對創新、成本、紀律和品質的承諾鞏固了我們作為該地區最大的綜合企業以及客戶最可靠的包裝和供應鏈合作夥伴的聲譽。

We have continued to make significant investments in our operations through new converting machines, upgrades to corrugators and safety systems, and substantial investments in our bag and box business. All ensuring we meet the evolving needs of our customers with market leading innovation, quality and service.

我們透過新的加工機器、瓦楞機和安全系統的升級以及對我們的袋子和盒子業務的大量投資，繼續對我們的營運進行大量投資。所有這些都確保我們以市場領先的創新、品質和服務來滿足客戶不斷變化的需求。

The segment again remained very strong in the fourth quarter, as you can see here with slides of $0.5 billion, adjusted EIA of $121 million and an adjusted EA margin of over 23%.

該部門在第四季度再次保持強勁，如您所見，其銷售額為 5 億美元，調整後的 EIA 為 1.21 億美元，調整後的 EA 利潤率超過 23%。

Again, we're looking at the comparative performance for the segment on a combined non-gap basis as per the September 18, year on year adjusted the EBITDA and EBITDA margin were significantly higher in the fourth quarter of 2024.

再次，我們正在根據 9 月 18 日的綜合無差距基礎來查看該部門的比較表現，同比調整後，2024 年第四季度的 EBITDA 和 EBITDA 利潤率顯著提高。

Corugated box volumes were 3% lower on a same day basis. With Argentina being an outsized drag on the region's demand picture of the fourth quarter, along with our value of volume strategy, seeing some pockets of volume contraction in places like Brazil and Colombia as we continue to roll through some legacy contract structures.

瓦楞紙箱銷量當天下降了 3%。由於阿根廷對該地區第四季度的需求前景產生了巨大的拖累，加上我們的銷售價值策略，隨著我們繼續執行一些遺留的合約結構，巴西和哥倫比亞等地的銷量出現了一些萎縮。

Nonetheless, by leveraging our strong track record and quality and service, we successfully implemented pricing initiatives more than offset a negative foreign currency translation impact and the lower volumes in our box business to deliver this strong result. Latin America is a region we have operated in since the 1950s and is built on the best of both legacy companies.

儘管如此，透過利用我們良好的業績記錄以及品質和服務，我們成功實施了定價舉措，抵消了負面的外幣折算影響和盒子業務銷量下降的影響，從而取得了這一強勁的業績。自 1950 年代以來，我們就一直在拉丁美洲開展業務，並且繼承了兩家公司的優點。

The region benefits from growing economies and a diverse customer base, and by leveraging our deep understanding of each local market, Smir WestRock is well positioned to continue to drive long term success. And finally, I want to outline how we think about capital allocation at the Smurfit WestRock. Those who have followed Kappa over, the years will, know how this framework is both flexible and returns focus at its core.

該地區受益於不斷增長的經濟和多樣化的客戶群，透過利用我們對每個本地市場的深入了解，Smir WestRock 有能力繼續推動長期成功。最後，我想概述一下我們對 Smurfit WestRock 的資本配置的看法。多年來一直關注 Kappa 的人都知道，這個框架既靈活又能回歸核心。

As a team with deep industry experience, which you saw earlier on in the presentation, we see internally allocated capital, the lowest risk and highest quality form of investment, and that is the key to the future success of our business.

作為一支擁有深厚行業經驗的團隊，正如您在先前的演示中所看到的，我們看到內部分配的資本、風險最低、品質最高的投資形式，這是我們業務未來成功的關鍵。

Upon closing the combination on July 5th last year, we conducted a comprehensive assessment of our capital needs right across the business. And as it lined at the end of October, CapEx for full year 2025 will be in the range of EUR2.2n million to EUR2.4billion, well ahead of depreciation.

去年 7 月 5 日完成合併後，我們對整個業務的資本需求進行了全面評估。正如 10 月底所預測的那樣，2025 年全年資本支出將在 22 億歐元至 24 億歐元之間，遠高於折舊額。

The dividend is also a cornerstone of our capital allocation strategy, and the Sm West report recently approved the $43.08 per share, up from $30.25 $0.05 per share, again delivering on our promise to pay a dividend stream in line with Legacy SKG's progressive policy as we start our full year at Smurf WestRock.

股息也是我們資本配置策略的基石，Sm West 報告最近批准了每股 43.08 美元的股息，高於每股 30.25 美元 0.05 美元，再次兌現了我們在 Smurf WestRock 開始全年運營時按照 Legacy SKG 的漸進政策支付股息的承諾。

The balance sheet of WestRock has significant strength and flexibility, and we are committed to maintaining a strong investment grade credit rating. And indeed, given the scale of our operations and our ability to generate significant cash flow, we are targeting a long-term leverage ratio of below 2 times through the cycle.

WestRock 的資產負債表具有顯著的實力和靈活性，我們致力於維持強勁的投資等級信用評級。事實上，考慮到我們的營運規模和產生大量現金流的能力，我們的目標是在整個週期內將長期槓桿率控制在 2 倍以下。

We will also maintain a disciplined approach to M&A and will benchmark any opportunities against all other capital allocation alternatives. And the inclusion of other forms of shareholder returns underscores the flexibility of the framework to ensure that all avenues to create and return value to our shareholders are considered and benchmarked against all options. Ultimately, the framework at its simplest is about creating long-term value for all stakeholders.

我們也將保持嚴謹的併購方式，並將任何機會與所有其他資本配置替代方案進行比較。其他形式的股東回報的納入凸顯了該框架的靈活性，以確保為股東創造和回報價值的所有途徑都被考慮並與所有選擇進行對比。最終，該框架最簡單的含義是為所有利害關係人創造長期價值。

Lastly, as we know from the release, the year has started well. Based on that and assuming current marketing conditions prevail, we anticipate delivering an adjusted EBA of approximately $1.25 billion for the first quarter.

最後，正如我們從發布中了解到的那樣，今年的開局很好。基於此並假設當前的市場條件占主導地位，我們預計第一季的調整後 EBA 約為 12.5 億美元。

And with that, I'll pass you back to Tony including remarks.

說完這些，我將把你的報告和評論轉交給東尼。

Thank you, Ken. As I said at the outset, I'm extremely excited about where we find ourselves in Smurfit West Rock. In our previous incarnation, we have shown and proved that we are a winning company with a winning team that has consistently delivered superior operating and financial performance.

謝謝你，肯。正如我在一開始所說的，我對我們在斯莫菲特西岩的處境感到非常興奮。在我們先前的轉型中，我們已經展示並證明了我們是一家成功的公司，擁有一支成功的團隊，並且始終如一地提供卓越的營運和財務表現。

It is essentially the same team with significant, very significant added expertise from our new colleagues in West Rock. This company has a truly unrivaled scale with a geographic footprint that is without parallel with a diverse product portfolio and a library of unique designs in all areas of our business.

本質上還是同一支團隊，但 West Rock 的新同事為我們帶來了大量專業知識。該公司擁有真正無與倫比的規模和無與倫比的地理覆蓋範圍，以及多樣化的產品組合和涵蓋我們業務各個領域的獨特設計庫。

As we transfer innovation and best practice capabilities across the combined platform, we are and will open up opportunities for a growing customer base. What we have seen is that we have significant value creating opportunities both for growth and for cost takeout. But of course, we will do as we have always done this in a disciplined way and in a way that ensures we get the returns that have been the hallmark of our company throughout its history.

隨著我們在綜合平台上轉移創新和最佳實踐能力，我們正在並將繼續為不斷增長的客戶群開闢機會。我們看到，我們在成長和降低成本方面都擁有巨大的創造價值的機會。但當然，我們會像往常一樣，以嚴謹的方式去做這件事，並確保獲得公司歷史上標誌性的回報。

As I said at the beginning of the presentation today, we are so excited to have created a global leader in sustainable paper-based packaging. We're just sections months into our current transformation journey, a journey that we have been on before. In that time, we have brought together two cultures to form the new Smurfit West Rock culture. This performance led culture will be the bedrock of our future success.

正如我今天演講開始時所說的那樣，我們非常高興能夠打造出可持續紙質包裝領域的全球領導者。我們目前轉型之旅才剛開始幾個月，我們之前就經歷過一次這樣的旅程。在那段時間裡，我們融合了兩種文化，形成了新的 Smurfit West Rock 文化。這種以績效為主導的文化將成為我們未來成功的基石。

Our industry has a fantastic long term future as a producer of the most sustainable, innovative, transport and merchandizing medium that our customers and their customers, the end consumer, increasingly value.

作為最具永續性、創新性的運輸和銷售媒介的生產者，我們的產業擁有美好的長期前景，我們的客戶以及他們的客戶（最終消費者）越來越重視這個媒介。

The Smurfit WestRock offering with over 2,000 designers every day, creating unique products across all of our product ranges, gives us a competitive advantage in this fundamentally excellent market. Our team has again delivered in the fourth quarter and indeed for the year. We as a management team have an owner operator culture and are committed to continuing to drive growth, efficiency, innovation, and cost takeout so that our stakeholders and our customers win. For the full year in 2025, we expect to deliver both continued and meaningful progress on this transformation journey.

Smurfit WestRock 每天擁有超過 2,000 名設計師，為我們所有的產品系列打造獨特的產品，使我們在這個本質上優秀的市場中佔據了競爭優勢。我們的團隊在第四季度乃至全年都再次取得了優異的成績。作為管理團隊，我們擁有業主經營者文化，並致力於繼續推動成長、效率、創新和成本削減，以便我們的利害關係人和客戶實現共贏。展望 2025 年全年，我們希望在這條轉型之路上取得持續且有意義的進展。

Thank you for taking the time to listen to Ken and myself, and I'll now hand you over to the operator for your questions.

非常感謝您花時間聽取 Ken 和我本人的發言，現在我將把您的問題交給接線員。

Thank you, operator, and we'll take questions when you're ready.

謝謝接線員，當您準備好時我們會回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Philip NG, Jefferies.

傑富瑞 (Jefferies) 的 Philip NG。

Hey guys. I guess it's great to see your box volumes in North America in the fourth quarter actually stack up pretty in line with the broader industry despite taking a value over volume approach. So I guess my question is, Tony, as you kind of pivot to having a bigger focus on generating proper returns than [bauxide] and how you commercially approach things taking a more local level, what's beach the early learnings thus far on the commercial side and have you seen how have the contract discussions progressed as you kind of enter the new calendar year.

嘿，大家好。我很高興看到你們第四季在北美的箱量與整個產業的水平相當，儘管我們採取的是價值重於數量的方法。所以我想我的問題是，托尼，當你將重點轉向比 [鋁土礦] 更注重產生適當的回報，以及你如何以更本地化的水平商業化處理事情時，到目前為止，在商業方面，早期的經驗教訓是什麼？

Yeah, it's a very good question Philip. I mean, I think you know the value of volume strategy has been implemented really, during, let's call it during the second half of last year, so we didn't see any real negative effects on volumes as we've gone through understanding some of our profitable and unprofitable customers. And so I would suspect you'll see some volume degradation as we have moved forward into fixing some of those core issues that we that we've encountered.

是的，菲利普，這是個非常好的問題。我的意思是，我想你知道數量策略的價值已經真正實施了，我們稱之為去年下半年，所以在了解了一些盈利和無利可圖的客戶後，我們並沒有看到對數量產生任何真正的負面影響。因此，我估計，隨著我們開始解決遇到的一些核心問題，您會看到音量下降。

But that said, the value side of that should well offset that in the majority of cases. So I think, the shortage, the volume performance that we've had in Q3 and Q4 has been not really affected by some of the issues that we've been addressing. And we would expect to see some of those as we move into the first half of this year.

但話雖如此，在大多數情況下，價值方面應該能夠很好地抵消這一點。因此，我認為，我們在第三季和第四季遇到的短缺和銷售表現並沒有真正受到我們正在解決的一些問題的影響。我們預計，在今年上半年，我們將會看到其中一些情況。

I think, in particular. Brazil, for example, we did see some effect where we where we were pushing very quickly on certain issues, and you saw our volumes contract a little bit in Brazil, but yet our profitability went up in Brazil and I suspect you'd see the same effect as we go through 2025 in our other markets.

我認為，特別是。以巴西為例，我們確實看到了一些效果，我們在某些​​問題上推進得非常快，你會看到我們的銷量在巴西有所萎縮，但我們在巴西的盈利能力卻上升了，我想在我們到 2025 年時，你也會在其他市場看到同樣的效果。

We haven't thus far lost anything significant. I mean, I'm anticipating that we'll probably lose a little bit. But then on the other hand, to counteract that, Philip, we're going to see, our innovations come through, our ability to show our customers, better ways to package. So all of those things will be in the mix as we go through 2025 and into 2026. And it's actually interesting in Brazil, one of our larger customers that we did lose is already coming back to us. So when you have good volume -- when you have good quality and service and customers need you, then, maybe you've been mispricing a little bit in the past.

我們迄今為止還沒有損失任何重大的東西。我的意思是，我預計我們可能會損失一點。但另一方面，為了解決這個問題，菲利普，我們會看到，我們的創新將得以實現，我們有能力向客戶展示更好的包裝方式。因此，當我們經歷 2025 年和 2026 年時，所有這些因素都會結合在一起。事實上，在巴西，有趣的是，我們失去的一個大客戶現在又回到我們身邊了。因此，當您擁有良好的銷售、優良的品質和服務，並且客戶需要您時，也許您過去曾有過一點定價錯誤的情況。

Okay, that's a great color, Tony. I appreciate it and pretty encouraging out of the gates. And then forgive me, and Anna [Handgfil] a lot newer to the European container market. I noticed you and a handful of your peers have price increases in the marketplace for February and March. I guess out of the gates, what's the feedback from from your customers and if you anticipate seeing traction?

好的，這顏色很棒，東尼。我對此表示感激，並且非常鼓舞人心。然後請原諒我，Anna [Handgfil] 對歐洲貨櫃市場了解較多。我注意到您和您的一些同行在二月和三月的市場上提高了價格。我想問一下，一開始您的客戶回饋是什麼？

And can you walk us through the mechanics too and how do you see box prices progressuing sequentially in the next few quarters? Since we've seen container board prices fall the last few months, in the last three to six months, but you have increases out there. So due to box price prices I guess trigger any color how we should think about box prices the next few quarters sequentially in Europe.

您能否向我們介紹其中的機制以及您認為未來幾季盒子價格將如何持續變化？我們看到，在過去幾個月，也就是過去的三到六個月裡，箱板紙的價格有所下跌，但外面的價格卻有所上漲。因此，我猜想由於盒子價格的價格會引發任何顏色，我們應該如何考慮未來幾季歐洲的盒子價格。

In Europe. Yeah, again, it's an excellent question. I mean, if you look at our margins in Europe and I think you can do the work yourself to see how we can stack up with our competition, you'll see that we've radically outperformed because of our innovation and business model and You know that's in spite of falling paper prices which have fallen very substantially. And you'll see again some of our independent third party players that actually produce more paper, you'll see that their profitability is de minimis to say the least.

在歐洲。是的，這又是一個好問題。我的意思是，如果你看看我們在歐洲的利潤率，我想你可以自己做一些工作來了解我們如何與競爭對手抗衡，你會發現，由於我們的創新和商業模式，我們已經取得了根本性的成功，而且你知道，儘管紙張價格大幅下跌，但我們的表現仍然很好。您會再次看到我們的一些獨立第三方參與者實際上生產了更多的紙張，您會發現他們的盈利能力至少可以說是微不足道的。

And I mean we've always had this seesaw model that when paper went up our box prices would suffer until we got our box prices up and vice versa. And that's what you've seen in our -- during the second half of last year where our box prices you know held up pretty well and we've been able to transfer profitability from paper to boxes.

我的意思是，我們一直有這種蹺蹺板模型，當紙張價格上漲時，我們的包裝盒價格就會受到影響，直到我們的包裝盒價格上漲，反之亦然。這就是您在去年下半年看到的——我們的紙箱價格保持得很好，我們能夠將盈利能力從紙張轉移到紙箱上。

The paper system is completely at the bottom, and that's why the industry in general somewhere between, depending on the market, Philip, whether it's Italy, it might be a bit less, where in Germany it's a bit more, and the central, areas somewhere between EUR30and EUR80 has been implemented during the month of February as well as Cart [Naire] which we've announced a price increase for March.

紙質系統完全處於最低水平，這就是為什麼整個行業的價格總體上介於兩者之間，這取決於市場，菲利普，無論是在意大利，價格可能會低一點，在德國可能會高一點，在中部地區，2 月份實施的價格在 30 歐元至 80 歐元之間，而 Cart [Naire] 我們已經宣布 3 月份價格上漲。

So I suspect they will all go through. And then we will be transferring from corrugated to paper. and then in the next six months that we'll be transferring from back into our corrugated box system and that that increase in paper.

因此我認為他們都會成功。然後我們將從瓦楞紙轉移到紙張。然後在接下來的六個月內，我們將從瓦楞紙箱系統轉回，並增加紙張用量。

So you know it's a continual improvement of Area of improvement underneath that where we're continuing to invest in our paper mills to reduce their cost base and then at the same time invest in our corrugated business to increase its innovation and that's what's worked for us. And then if you look at our margins, obviously we'd like them to be higher than 15.5% or 15%, but relative to most of the peers that's a much higher level because we have this integrated model that works so well.

所以你知道，這是一個持續改進的領域，我們將繼續投資於我們的造紙廠，以降低其成本基礎，同時投資於我們的瓦楞紙業務，以增加其創新，這就是對我們有效的方法。如果你看看我們的利潤率，顯然我們希望它們高於 15.5％ 或 15％，但相對於大多數同行，這是一個更高的水平，因為我們有這個運作良好的整合模型。

Okay, appreciate the great fella thank you.

好的，感謝這位好心人，謝謝。

Thanks Phil.

謝謝菲爾。

Charlie Muir-Sands, BNP Pariba Exane.

Charlie Muir-Sands，法國巴黎銀行 Exane 分析師。

Hi, guys, thank you for taking my questions. The first one just relates to the $400 million-plus of operational and commercial improvement opportunities that you've identified. I just wondered if you'd give us a little bit more color on some specific examples, and particularly, what actions you've taken so far and what are planned to be implemented in 2025?

大家好，感謝你們回答我的問題。第一個問題與您所確定的超過 4 億美元的營運和商業改進機會有關。我只是想知道您是否可以給我們稍微詳細地舉一些具體例子，特別是您迄今為止採取了哪些行動以及計劃在 2025 年實施哪些行動？

Yeah. Well, I mean, I'll take the first piece of it. It's very simple, Charlie, that there was a lot of underselling going on in the past. And clearly, when you get back to plant level responsibility and you see some of the margins that exist with some businesses than contracts that have been signed while they can't get out of all the contracts initially, those that you can get out of, you will immediately do so and you won't lose all that business because you're actually a very good supplier and a high-quality supplier with very good OTIF, which legacy WestRock has been doing it.

是的。嗯，我的意思是，我會拿走第一部分。很簡單，查理，過去存在著大量的拋售現象。顯然，當您回到工廠層面的責任時，您會看到一些企業的利潤率高於已簽署的合同，儘管他們最初無法擺脫所有合同，但那些您可以擺脫的合同，您會立即這樣做，而且您不會失去所有的業務，因為您實際上是一個非常好的供應商和高質量的供應商，擁有非常好的 OTIF，而 WestRock 一直在這樣做。

In general, I would say it's a good quality supplier. It was a good quality supplier that had been underpricing many of the businesses, much of the business that it was doing despite investing in its assets over the years. And then the other improvement I give before I hand it over to Ken, is that, frankly speaking, a lot of the things relative to how the businesses were run were not correctly done because there wasn't enough focus on it. So we're obviously giving it the right focus as we push things down and Rome wasn't built in a day, so it doesn't happen very quickly.

總的來說，我認為這是一家優質的供應商。它是一家優質供應商，但多年來一直低估許多企業的價格，儘管它多年來一直在投資其資產，但仍然承擔了大量業務。在將其交給肯之前，我提出的另一個改進是，坦白說，許多與業務運作方式相關的事情都沒有正確完成，因為沒有對此給予足夠的關注。因此，我們在推動事情時顯然給予了正確的關注，羅馬不是一天建成的，所以這不會很快發生。

But what we can see is just by doing the basics much better than we'll have tremendous opportunity to improve each and every business. I mean we don't have in Europe, are in the legacy Smurfit Kappa, any businesses in corrugated that lose any substantial amount of money, and that's not the case in legacy WestRock and we intend to fix that. And just by that alone, is something that we hadn't banked on. It's nothing to do with the synergies. It's just about pure basic running your businesses better. And the people are capable of doing it. It's just they need to be, let's say, the vast majority of people are capable of doing it.

但我們可以看到，只要把基礎工作做得更好，我們就會有巨大的機會來改善每項業務。我的意思是，我們在歐洲，在傳統的 Smurfit Kappa 中，沒有任何瓦楞紙業務損失大量資金，而在傳統的 WestRock 中則不是這種情況，我們打算解決這個問題。僅就這一點而言，這是我們未曾指望過的。這與協同作用無關。這只是關於更好地經營您的業務的純粹基本內容。而且人民有能力做到這一點。只是他們需要，可以說絕大多數人都有能力做到這一點。

They just need to the right direction, and we're giving that. And I think that's working very well. I have to say that 1 of the things I've been incredibly impressed that is the quality of the people down at the operational level. Indeed, many of the people in Atlanta who are really getting on board for this program of becoming a part of a winning team. And as I say, I've been really impressed with so many of our new colleagues in WestRock that I can't speak highly enough of them. Obviously, not everybody is going to make the cut, but those that do are really going to be part of a winning team.

他們只是需要正確的方向，而我們正在提供這一點。我認為這項措施非常有效。我必須說，令我印象深刻的一件事就是營運層面人員的素質。確實，亞特蘭大的許多人都熱衷於這項計劃，希望成為勝利團隊的一員。正如我所說，WestRock 的許多新同事都給我留下了深刻的印象，我對他們讚不絕口。顯然，並不是每個人都能成功，但成功的人將真正成為勝利團隊的一部分。

Yeah. Charlie, I suppose if you leave aside the commercial side of the house, Look, it's about shining a lot in every aspect of the cost structure that exist. And remember, when you think about this combination, there is two very large public companies coming together. So there's a lot here about leveraging the size and scale of the operation in terms of what would naturally be combined programs, whether that's around insurance arrangements or external suppliers of the same service or actually just fundamentally looking at the systems in play and rolling out one over the other.

是的。查理，我想如果你拋開商業方面的問題，你看，它是關於現有成本結構的各個方面。請記住，當您想到這種合併時，您會發現有兩家非常大的上市公司走到了一起。因此，這裡有很多關於如何利用營運的規模和規模，就自然而然的組合計劃而言，無論是圍繞保險安排還是同一服務的外部供應商，或者實際上只是從根本上研究正在運行的系統並推出一個系統。

So we're kind of finding them on a phased basis. It would be difficult to kind of finish any quarter. We'll know where they're there. But a lot of things just wait for the contract to renew. And again, we don't -- we're not going to renew that because we already have a system in place. or we've chosen a different provider or we leverage it for the future forward. So I think it's kind of an iterative process that everything is on board with, both organizations had very active cost takeout program. So it's not a skill set that's unknown to side of the house.

因此，我們正在分階段尋找它們。完成任何一個季度都會很困難。我們會知道他們在哪裡。但很多事情都要等續約了。再說一次，我們不會——我們不會更新這個，因為我們已經有一個系統了。或者我們選擇了其他提供者，又或者我們利用它來展望未來。所以我認為這是一種迭代過程，一切都在進行中，兩個組織都有非常積極的成本削減計劃。所以這對各方來說並不是未知的技能。

I think what the level we're asking to go to here is basically back to if you think of the centers, it's go back to zero-based budgeting and kind of justify the spend and go from there, which in reality is what the teams are doing. So it will appear in the numbers across the year. But I think it's more than we said in October, outside the $400 million synergy target, this number we have real confidence over because we can see in fields around us and progressively the teams are seeing and feeling as well. beyond, if you like, the commercial stuff that Tony talks about. So I think we'll see it come through in the year. And in reality, we're already seeing some of that going through and some good ideas around how we can accelerate that.

我認為，我們在這裡要求達到的水平基本上是回到零基預算，並證明支出的合理性，然後從那裡開始，這實際上是團隊正在做的事情。因此它將出現在全年的數字中。但我認為這比我們 10 月所說的要多，除了 4 億美元的協同目標之外，我們對這個數字有真正的信心，因為我們可以從周圍的領域看到，而且團隊也在逐步看到和感受到。如果你願意的話，可以超越托尼談論的商業內容。因此我認為我們將在今年看到它的成功。事實上，我們已經看到了一些進展，並且對於如何加速這一進程提出了一些很好的想法。

And just my brief second question. Just regarding your Q1 expectations, can you give any color on whether you think maintenance costs are going to be particularly different year-on-year or quarter-on-quarter? And if there are any other big moving parts you want to call out that's embedded in that guidance beyond the kind of operating and pricing and volumes, et cetera?

這是我的第二個簡短問題。關於您對第一季的預期，您能否說明維護成本與去年同期或與上一季相比是否會有特別大的差異？除了營運、定價、銷售等因素之外，您是否還想指出該指引中包含的其他重大變動因素？

Sure, Charlie. I think the year started well from a man perspective. So probably not a lot coming through there in terms of volumes will be fine. In terms of pricing, given Tony has come to them and where paper sits unlikely to see any massive impact on paper or box in the first quarter. Broadly, most of the cost book has remained stable. Energy in Europe, clearly spiking a little bit over the last few days, OCC kind of trending around the same kind of levels. And then in terms of maintenance downtime quarter-over-quarter, I think the net impact is actually largely material. I think it's $10 million less in quarter one versus quarter three last year.

當然，查理。我認為從男性角度來說今年的開端很好。因此，從數量上來說，通過那裡可能不會有太多問題。在定價方面，考慮到托尼已經來到他們那裡並且紙張的現狀，不太可能在第一季對紙張或盒子產生任何巨大的影響。整體來看，大部分成本帳面保持穩定。歐洲的能源在過去幾天明顯略有上漲，OCC 的趨勢也大致處於同一水平。然後就季度環比維護停機時間而言，我認為淨影響實際上很大程度上是實質性的。我認為第一季的金額比去年第三季減少了 1000 萬美元。

Great, thank you very much.

太好了，非常感謝。

Thanks, Charlie.

謝謝，查理。

Gabe Hajde, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的 Gabe Hajde。

Tony, Ken, good morning. I wanted to ask about just the price discovery process in North America specifically. But just now that you've had six months or more and looking across both sides of the pond, price discovery in North America, how important is that process kind of on a more medium term basis? And at this point you guys sort of envision trying to decouple from some of the benchmarks that are out there implementing your own kind of pricing models with your clients over time?

東尼、肯，早安。我想要具體詢問一下北美的價格發現過程。但是，現在已經有六個月或更長時間了，並且放眼大西洋兩岸，北美的價格發現，這個過程在中期有多重要？那麼現在，你們是否設想嘗試脫離現有的某些基準，隨著時間的推移與客戶一起實施自己的定價模式？

I'll take the second part of it, Gabe, and then I'll let Ken to talk about the first part. Obviously, there's a lot of noise about RISI and whether or not we should this couple. I mean we, in a sense, are decoupling to some extent because whenever we feel that the pricing of individual customers is badly done then clearly, we'll talk to them.

我將討論第二部分，加布 (Gabe)，然後讓肯 (Ken) 討論第一部分。顯然，關於 RISI 以及我們是否應該將這對情侶聯繫在一起存在著許多爭議。我的意思是，從某種意義上說，我們正在某種程度上脫鉤，因為每當我們覺得個人客戶的定價不好時，我們顯然就會與他們交談。

And if there are other extraneous factors such as inflation, such as higher costs in a particular region of energy, then we will again address that individually with our customers. And we have made a lot of provisions in many of our contracts in Europe, specifically about putting in inflation closes that weren't there in the previous cycle, if you want to go back to prior to the inflation movements. So we have adjusted things considerably.

如果有其他外部因素，例如通貨膨脹，例如某個特定地區的能源成本較高，那麼我們將再次與客戶單獨解決這個問題。我們已經在歐洲的許多合約中做出了很多規定，特別是關於納入上一周期中不存在的通膨收盤價（如果你想回到通膨變動之前的話）。因此我們對一些事情做了很大的調整。

With regard to RISI, I don't yet have a better benchmark. We try to be fair with all of our customers over the long period of time. And basically, there is one benchmark out there for our customers and ourselves to try and look to see where pricing movements of paper are going, and that's RISI. And so we don't have a better benchmark than that.

關於 RISI，我還沒有更好的基準。我們長期努力公平對待所有客戶。基本上，我們和客戶都有一個基準，可以試著觀察紙張價格的走勢，那就是 RISI。所以我們沒有比這更好的基準。

Sometimes, you could argue that they are (inaudible) I know some of our competitors having saying that, that the integrated -- or sorry, the independents are widening that particular issue. But I think over time, it has proven to be a reasonably good benchmark. But you do have to have within your own pricing with customers, ways to move things if things go outside of the paper movements, and that's what we do. So until somebody comes up with a better idea, we'll probably stick with where we're at with our customers because we think it's basically fair. Now I'm not saying they get it right all the time, they don't. But like, obviously, that's what we think is the best movement for the time being.

有時，你可能會爭辯說他們（聽不清楚）我知道我們的一些競爭對手這麼說過，綜合的——或者抱歉，獨立公司正在擴大這一特定問題。但我認為隨著時間的推移，它已被證明是一個相當好的基準。但是你確實需要在自己的客戶定價範圍內，以及在事情超出紙面流程的情況下有處理方式，這就是我們所做的。因此，除非有人提出更好的主意，否則我們可能會堅持我們與客戶的現有關係，因為我們認為這基本上是公平的。現在我並不是說他們總是做對了，事實並非如此。但顯然，我們認為這是目前最好的舉措。

Gabe, hopefully, I'm understanding your question correctly, Gabe, but don't, please correct me. But in terms of our price discovery, if you like, within WestRock, I think fundamentally, I think the model at the WestRock business operator was one of an integrated margin across both businesses. So combining the paper and the box business to deliver on combined margin for the organization. That's sort of counterintuitive slightly because you take the focus on the mill and the [indiscernible] individual, and we see those two profit centers.

加布，希望我能正確理解你的問題，加布，但不要，請糾正我。但就我們的價格發現而言，如果您願意的話，在 WestRock 內部，我認為從根本上來說，我認為 WestRock 業務運營商的模型是兩項業務的綜合利潤模型之一。因此，將紙張和包裝盒業務結合起來可以為組織帶來綜合利潤。這有點違反直覺，因為你把焦點放在工廠和[音頻不清晰]個人身上，我們看到了這兩個利潤中心。

So I think when we broke out that and place the mills back in the mills and boxes to boxes, you were able to see quite clearly where value was being delivered and quite sadly, where value was not being delivered. I think you aligned that, though, with the profit responsibility at the local level, which we're driving down, which gives people a very individual focus on what they're achieving and delivering and quite simply against our peer set in the country, and against the group overall.

因此，我認為，當我們將其打破，並將工廠放回工廠，將盒子放回盒子時，你就能清楚地看到價值在哪裡交付，以及令人遺憾的是，價值在哪裡沒有交付。不過，我認為，您將其與我們正在降低的地方層面的利潤責任相一致，這讓人們更加關注他們所取得的成就和交付成果，很簡單，就是與全國的同行以及整個集團進行比較。

So it is really about being as granular as you can on the income statement and giving people responsibility and control and indeed accountability over all the items. And that flows directly into where our capital sits because quite simply, the model is we allocate capital based on returns, but you need to be able to see those returns at the lowest level possible. And indeed generate those are trying to generate additional capital, at least you can see where capital wins and capital quite simply doesn't win. So I think that the [indiscernible] piece was moving away from ended margin back to individual margins, which allows pure accountability at the local level. Hopefully, I've captured that there.

因此，這實際上就是在損益表上盡可能細緻，並讓人們對所有專案負有責任和控制權，甚至承擔責任。這直接影響到我們的資本所在位置，因為很簡單，我們的模型是根據回報來分配資本，但你需要能夠在盡可能低的水平上看到這些回報。確實，那些試圖產生額外資本的人，至少你可以看到哪裡資本獲勝，哪裡資本根本就獲勝不了。因此，我認為 [音訊不清晰] 部分正在從終止利潤轉向個人利潤，這使得在地方層面上實現純粹的問責制。希望我已經捕捉到了這一點。

Yeah, No, that's helpful. One on just maybe more nearer term. You gave us a 1.25 for the first quarter, and I appreciate there's no good year, at least in the past that's sort of representative. But when we think about the organization, maybe in have, you're realizing this $400 million of kind of identified synergies plus the incremental, is there a way to think about waiting for -- and then maybe taking into account just maintenance. You mentioned, I think, $10 million lower on a sequential basis into the first quarter, but weighting first half to second half in terms of earnings power for the business.

是的，不，這很有幫助。其中一個可能只是更近期的。您給了我們第一季的 1.25 分，我知道沒有哪一年是好年頭，至少在過去這是有代表性的。但是當我們考慮組織時，也許在你有意識到這種 4 億美元的已確定的協同效應加上增量時，有沒有辦法考慮等待 - 然後可能只考慮維護。您提到，我認為，第一季的獲利環比下降了 1000 萬美元，但從企業的獲利能力來看，上半年的權重比下半年要大。

Not really. I don't think -- at this point, given where we see it in terms of pricing and cost inputs, Gabe, it's really very largely phased broadly similar quarter-to-quarter as we sit here now. Clearly, that will be changed if paper prices come through by the end of March, for example, you expect to see some price progression on boxes as we get towards the back end of this year. But absent everything else, I think when you look at the statement that comment at the end that Tony makes around continued your progress. I think you can take that as broadly the quarter. We sit in annualized plus what we're doing, as you say, around synergies and some of the other commercial opportunities.

並不真地。加布，我不認為，從目前我們在定價和成本投入方面的情況來看，目前各季度的情況大致相同。顯然，如果紙張價格在 3 月底前上漲，這種情況就會改變，例如，隨著今年年底的臨近，你預計會看到紙箱價格上漲。但拋開其他一切不談，我認為當你看到托尼在最後發表的評論時，你就會繼續取得進展。我認為你可以將其視為一個大致的季度。正如您所說，我們按年計算，我們正在圍繞協同效應和其他一些商業機會開展工作。

Yeah, typically speaking, Gabe, typically speaking, your first and last quarters are a little bit weaker than your middle quarters. But obviously, it depends on the year, it depends on the movements of different aspects, depends on what happens with energy depends on what happens with. But with any number of factors that could be coming in to affect you. But normally taking your busier months or summer times for packaging products and spring and summer and fall.

是的，加布，一般來說，你的第一季和最後一季會比中間季度弱一點。但顯然，這取決於年份，取決於不同方面的運動，取決於能量發生的情況。但有許多因素可能會對您造成影響。但通常情況下，包裝產品需要在繁忙的月份或夏季以及春季、夏季和秋季進行。

Thank you, good luck.

謝謝你，祝你好運。

Okay.

好的。

Lars Kjellberg, Stifel.

拉爾斯·謝爾伯格（Lars Kjellberg），Stifel。

Thank you for providing first quarter guidance. I just want to get some more sense of the cadence of synergies. I mean you speak to around $400 million by year-end. How should we think about this as the year develops? I mean you've taken out a chunk of fixed costs, et cetera, and last year and which, of course, should be in the numbers now, broadly speaking, but how, again, cadence of that?

感謝您提供第一季的指導。我只是想多了解協同作用的節奏。我的意思是到年底這個數字將會達到 4 億美元左右。隨著時間的推移，我們該如何思考這個問題？我的意思是，你已經拿出了一大筆固定成本等等，去年，當然，從大體上來說，現在這些成本應該在數字中，但是，這個節奏又是如何呢？

Second point, when you're talking about the opportunities beyond that $400 million, do you expect to get any of that coming through in this year? I guess you need to spend the money and -- but I suppose this is not all CapEx related. So any of that should surface in '25, we should be really looking beyond into 2016 to get that incremental.

第二點，當您談到 4 億美元以外的機會時，您預計今年能夠實現其中的任何機會嗎？我想你需要花錢——但我想這並不全都與資本支出有關。因此，所有這些都應該在 25 年出現，我們應該真正展望 2016 年後以獲得這種增量。

Thanks Lars, the look at my boss's face says I'm getting both of these questions.

謝謝拉爾斯，從我老闆的表情看，我明白這兩個問題我都明白。

I'll help you out with the second one.

我將幫你解決第二個問題。

It's -- I think, look, if we take the synergy number I think you're going to see it phased ramping up as we get through the year. I think the $400 million full run rate for '26 to sit there. I think don't forget the cost to achieve, which is in the order of $235 million I think the net-net for this year, we probably see is about the $150 million space, you'll see coming through the income statement. That includes the cost to achieve. I think in the first quarter, you could probably think about that number as being something like $30 million, if you want to put something out. But we'll know by the -- we sort of know at the end of the quarter, what the impact and achievement was all in that sense.

這是 — — 我認為，看，如果我們採用協同效應數字，我認為你會看到它在一年中分階段上升。我認為 26 年 4 億美元的全額運作率將維持在那裡。我想不要忘記實現的成本，大約為 2.35 億美元，我認為今年的淨利潤，我們可能看到的是大約 1.5 億美元的空間，您會在損益表中看到。其中包括實現所需的成本。我認為，在第一季度，如果你想投入一些資金，你可能會認為這個數字大約是 3000 萬美元。但到本季末我們就會知道，其影響和成就究竟是什麼。

On the second $400 million, a lot of that is not necessarily linked to CapEx predominantly. We are -- we talked a little bit the last quarter about our Quick Win program. But it's not CapEx dependent. So you should see it come through the quicker we get at it. but hard equally to identify because it's just about what honestly, it's the hard yards on taking cost out in a lot of places.

對於第二個 4 億美元，其中很大一部分不一定主要與資本支出有關。我們 - 我們在上個季度談論了一些關於我們的 Quick Win 計劃。但它並不依賴資本支出。因此，我們越快得到結果，您就應該能看到結果。但同樣很難確定，因為老實說，這在很多地方都是削減成本的艱難舉措。

And as Tony said earlier on the commercial side, it really is about waiting for contracts to come up for renewal and then renegotiating in a way that's more profitable, quite honestly, than the previous contract. So more difficult to face. But I think all we can do, as you know as well, is as we get through the quarters, we can give you some good ideas on where we've hit our land it and indeed how we think about it in the context of the full year, probably have much more better visibility as we get through quarter one and two to be fair.

正如托尼早些時候在商業方面所說的那樣，這實際上是等待合約續簽，然後以比之前的合約更有利可圖的方式重新進行談判。因此更加難以面對。但我認為，正如你所知，我們所能做的就是，隨著我們度過各個季度，我們可以為你提供一些好的想法，關於我們已經取得的進展，以及我們如何在全年的背景下考慮這個問題，公平地說，隨著我們度過第一季度和第二季度，可能會有更好的可見性。

All right, just one on the dividends. Are there any other consideration than just getting back to the old Smurfit Kappa dividend or anything else behind that big increase in Q4?

好的，只談股息。除了恢復舊的 Smurfit Kappa 股息或其他因素之外，還有其他考慮嗎？

There was a lot of debate, Lars, just imagine because you're trying to align two very different policies, two very different payment cycles and two very different trajectories over the last number of years. I think on balance, where we left it was, if you think about the 2023 dividend for Smurfit Kappa shareholders being at $1.64, I think in real money, the WestRock shareholders probably would have ended on the cash base in '24, but $1.21 actually.

拉爾斯，想像一下，有很多爭論，因為你試圖協調過去幾年中兩種截然不同的政策、兩種截然不同的支付週期和兩種截然不同的軌跡。我認為，總的來說，如果您考慮到 Smurfit Kappa 股東的 2023 年股息為 1.64 美元，我認為以實際貨幣計算，WestRock 股東可能在 24 年的現金基礎為 1.21 美元。

But I think the dividend for Smurfit Kappa in '24 was much higher than that based on the fact that the last two quarters were $0.30, so probably landed in the $1.80 space. So trying to triangulate between those three things to give what still presents as a progressive dividend forward land us back at, we think the Smurfit Kappa '23 dividend of $1.64 million but a reasonable increase of 5% gives you over the 4 quarters where you end up with the $0.43. I think equally, when we talk about the allocable cash flows and how they're split, no more than we've done in the past, I think that represents a fair share of the pre-CapEx cash flow. It's probably something in the order of 22% to 25% for the year. So they were really the broad considerations around how we got there.

但我認為，Smurfit Kappa 在 1924 年的股息應該比這高得多，因為過去兩個季度的股息為 0.30 美元，所以股息可能落在 1.80 美元左右。因此，試圖在這三者之間進行三角測量，以得​​出仍呈現為累進股息的結果，我們認為 Smurfit Kappa '23 股息為 164 萬美元，但合理增長 5% 會在 4 個季度內為您帶來 0.43 美元。我同樣認為，當我們談論可分配現金流及其如何分配時，就像我們過去所做的那樣，我認為這代表了資本支出前現金流的公平份額。今年的增幅可能在 22% 至 25% 之間。所以它們實際上都是關於我們如何到達那裡的廣泛考慮。

Very good. Thank you.

非常好。謝謝。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Detlef Winckelmann, JP Morgan.

摩根大通的 Detlef Winckelmann。

Hi there, thanks for taking my question. I have just two ones quickly. Maybe the first one, just to clarify. You mentioned a synergy number of 50 underlying that 1,250 in Q1. If I'm understanding that right, you should be getting a full year synergy number of $400 million, so call it $100 million a quarter, should I be reading that as 3 of the 50 of 100 quarter is already in Q1? Or just making sure I got that right before my next question.

你好，感謝您回答我的問題。我很快就只有兩個了。也許是第一個，只是為了澄清。您提到，第一季的協同數字為 1,250，而協同數字為 50。如果我理解正確的話，您應該得到全年 4 億美元的協同效應數字，因此稱之為每季度 1 億美元，我是否應該這樣理解，因為 100 個季度中的 50 個已經是第一季了？或者只是確保我在回答下一個問題之前能夠正確回答這個問題。

You think the net would be $30 million. So remember, the $400 million synergy number had $235 million of costs attached to achieve before you get to the full run rate in '26, if you like of the 400 year base. So the $30 million for quarter one is a net number. For the full year, on a net basis, synergy minus the cost to achieve, you're probably thinking about given the phasing and timing about 150 slightly ahead of that for the year.

您認為淨利潤將達到 3,000 萬美元。所以請記住，如果您願意的話，以 400 年為基數，那麼在 26 年達到全面運行率之前，4 億美元的協同效應數字需要花費 2.35 億美元才能實現。因此第一季的 3000 萬美元是一個淨數。對於全年而言，在淨基礎上，協同效應減去實現成本，您可能會考慮根據分階段和時間安排，略微提前一年左右。

Okay, got it, thank you. And then maybe just one more follow up just regarding energy, and you kind of alluded to it earlier, that energy prices are spiking. Can you remind us or give us some kind of guidance as to where your hedging is at the moment, specifically in Europe, on energy side?

好的，知道了，謝謝。然後也許我們再問一個關於能源的問題，您之前提到過，能源價格正在飆升。您能否提醒我們或給我們一些指導，說明您目前的對沖情況，特別是在歐洲的能源方面？

We're about 25% hedged in Europe for Q1 and a little bit less than that, Q2, three from four. But obviously -- so we will have an effect on energy, and that's built into our numbers when we look at it. So it will be not a material increase for Q1. But as I said, that's built into our numbers in our forecast. Obviously, the big buckets for risk are currency, tariffs and energy. And unless energy were to really go crazy in March, then I think that we'll be okay on that bucket. We haven't had a question yet on tariffs, but I'm sure somebody will ask it shortly.

我們第一季在歐洲的對沖比例約為 25%，第二季則略低一些，有 4 季對沖比例為 3/4。但顯然——我們將對能源產生影響，而且當我們查看時，這一點已經融入我們的數據中。因此第一季不會有實質的成長。但正如我所說，這已經包含在我們的預測數字中了。顯然，最大的風險領域是貨幣、關稅和能源。除非三月能源供應真的瘋狂下降，否則我認為我們不會遇到什麼問題。我們還沒有收到關於關稅的問題，但我相信很快就會有人問。

Obviously, we don't know what's going to happen regard to tariffs in March, and that's an open question. And then currencies continue to be volatile. And they are the dollar being strong is in one part very good, but it also obviously means something in translation of our earnings backwards from euros into dollars, which is the reporting currency. So there are some pockets of risk that are moving around. But at the moment, we're okay. But we wouldn't want to see energy spike much more than this as we go through into March.

顯然，我們不知道三月關稅方面會發生什麼變化，這是一個懸而未決的問題。然後貨幣繼續波動。美元走強在某種程度上是件好事，但顯然也意味著我們需要將歐元收益轉換為美元（報告貨幣）。因此，存在一些正在擴散的風險。但目前我們還好。但我們不希望看到三月能源價格出現比這更高的高峰。

But I'd also say that don't forget that when energy prices spike before in Europe we were well able to optimize our system to ensure that we manage that, whatever the impact of that was. And keep in mind too that we probably generate about 50% of our energy internally anyway through renewables and everything else and not necessarily fully expose that kind of price for the unedged portion.

但我還要說，不要忘記，當歐洲能源價格之前飆升時，我們能夠很好地優化我們的系統，以確保我們能夠管理好它，無論其影響是什麼。還要記住的是，我們可能透過再生能源和其他方式在內部生產了大約 50% 的能源，而不一定完全公開未付費部分的價格。

Perfect, thanks. And then if I can squeeze in one more and I know you kind of alluded to it regarding the maintenance, kind of $10 million quarter on quarter. But just more in absolute terms in terms of maintenance, is Q1 normally quite a high maintenance quarter? I mean, imagine Q1, Q4 quite high; Q2, Q3, not as high. Am I thinking about that right?

非常好，謝謝。然後，如果我可以再擠一點，我知道您提到了維護費用，大概是每季 1000 萬美元。但是從維護的絕對值來看，第一季通常是維護成本相當高的季度嗎？我的意思是，想像一下 Q1、Q4 相當高； Q2、Q3 沒有那麼高。我這樣想對嗎？

No. I think Q2 is normally our highest maintenance because you tend not to do -- in some of the coal declines, you tend not to do maintenance during Q1. And in Q4, you don't do it because the weather issues and then, of course, getting staff. So normally, Q2 and Q3 are the biggest maintenance quarters. And certainly, if you look at our forecast, Q2 is probably going to be our biggest maintenance quarter.

不。我認為第二季度通常是我們維護需求最高的季度，因為在一些煤炭產量下降的情況下，您往往不會在第一季進行維護。而在第四季度，你無法這麼做，因為天氣問題，當然還有員工問題。因此通常情況下，第二季和第三季是維護量最大的季度。當然，如果你看看我們的預測，第二季可能是我們最大的維護季度。

Cool, thanks very much.

太棒了，非常感謝。

Anthony Pettinari, Citi.

花旗銀行的安東尼‧佩蒂納裡 (Anthony Pettinari)

Good morning. Hey, Tony, you teed up the question on tariffs. So I'm just wondering, obviously, we don't know what form those will take, but what the potential impacts could be either directly or indirectly when you look at your footprint. And I guess I'm specifically interested in -- you have a large Mexican business. And I'm just wondering how much product maybe crosses the US-Mexico border there?

早安.嘿，東尼，你提出了有關關稅的問題。所以我只是想知道，顯然，我們不知道這些會採取什麼形式，但是當你看你的足跡時，潛在的影響可能是什麼，無論是直接的還是間接的。我想我特別感興趣的是—您在墨西哥有一家大型企業。我只是想知道有多少產品可能跨越了美墨邊境？

I mean Anthony, a lot. I mean at the end of the day, it's not us, our products that across the -- with a very small amount of direct products of ours that transfer across the border, but all the food and vegetables, fruit and vegetables that we do, protein that we do on the Mexican border, the Pekiladora region is going across the board, and we package a lot of that. So there will be a, I would say, a very significant customer effect. And obviously, tariffs are on the consumer. So at the end of the day, is the consumer going to pay 25% more for their avocados and their oranges and the pears and their apples or whatever they buy, we'll have to wait and see because that will be up to the American consumer and how that affects demand.

我指的是安東尼，很多。我的意思是，歸根結底，跨境運輸的不是我們的產品——只有極少量的直接產品，而是我們生產的所有食品、蔬菜、水果和蔬菜，以及我們在墨西哥邊境、佩基拉多拉地區生產的蛋白質，這些產品都經過了跨境運輸，我們對其中很多進行了包裝。因此，我想說，這將對客戶產生非常顯著的影響。顯然，關稅是由消費者承擔的。所以到最後，消費者是否願意為酪梨、橘子、梨子、蘋果或任何他們購買的商品多付 25% 的費用，我們還要拭目以待，因為這取決於美國消費者以及這將如何影響需求。

With regard to Canada, I mean, Canada is slightly different for us because we've won the mill in Canada and exports to the United States. And obviously, that would -- if that mill had to apply a 25% tariff, we'll have to figure out how we would adjust that mill situation there because that would be very uncompetitive very quickly. So we'll have to think about that. So that will be -- so there are two different things. Mexico, really end customer effect on consumer in America and the other is one specific asset we have in Canada.

關於加拿大，我的意思是，加拿大對我們來說略有不同，因為我們在加拿大贏得了工廠並出口到美國。顯然，如果該工廠必須徵收 25% 的關稅，我們必須想辦法調整那裡的工廠狀況，因為那裡的競爭力很快就會變得非常低。所以我們必須考慮這個問題。所以這將是——所以這是兩件不同的事情。墨西哥確實對美國消費者產生了最終客戶影響，另一個是我們在加拿大擁有的特定資產。

There are other assets in Canada, and we do extremely well with those assets, and we've got great market positions. And I have to say, as I said before, really impressed with the people up there. But we do export to the United States from one of our mills, and that would -- we'd have to take a good look at that and it would have an impact on the profitability of that mill. But how long these tariffs last for? Who knows, Anthony?

加拿大還有其他資產，我們在這些資產方面做得非常好，並且擁有良好的市場地位。我必須說，正如我之前所說的，那裡的人們確實給我留下了深刻的印象。但我們確實從我們的一家工廠向美國出口，而且那將會——我們必須仔細研究這一點，而且那將會對該工廠的盈利能力產生影響。但是這些關稅將持續多久？誰知道呢，安東尼？

Okay. That's very helpful. And then I'm curious, in North American consumer, is it possible to say how volumes or demand has trended quarter-to-date. And I think when you closed the combination, there was maybe a little bit of kind of wait and see in terms of evaluating maybe the kind of more attractive or less attractive parts of that business. I'm just curious if you can kind of share your impressions on the consumer boxboard business in North America having in the business.

好的。這非常有幫助。然後我很好奇，在北美消費者中，是否可以說出本季迄今為止的銷售或需求趨勢如何。我認為，當你完成合併時，可能會有一點等待和觀望，以評估該業務中哪些部分更有吸引力或更不具吸引力。我只是好奇您是否可以分享一下您對北美消費紙板業務的印象。

Yeah, Anthony, we know a number of months now. And I would say if you take the consumer converting business, I think we've got basically very good assets with very good people. We've got a couple of things to sort out, but nothing legacy WestRock has done a great job of closing and consolidating a number of facilities. And I think that we've -- so that's -- I think the converting side is good or excellent. I think our CUK business has global market positioning sales machines alongside its product, good mill, good market position.

是的，安東尼，我們現在知道幾個月了。我想說，如果你從事消費者轉換業務，我認為我們基本上擁有非常優質的資產和非常優秀的人才。我們有幾件事需要處理，但沒有什麼可以與 WestRock 的遺留問題相比，它在關閉和合併一些設施方面做得非常出色。我認為我們已經 — — 所以 — — 我認為轉換方面是好的或說優秀的。我認為我們的 CUK 業務除了擁有產品、良好的工廠和良好的市場地位外，還擁有全球市場定位銷售機器。

So again, I would say, is excellent. And then our SBS business, we're a little bit -- well, not -- we're a lot longer in SBS, but we do see some opportunities there because I think a little bit longer, but I feel reasonably good about the opportunities in SBS at this moment. I might change my mind in three months. But at this moment, I feel reasonably good, and I think our team feel reasonably good about it. And then finally, CRB, that's clearly an area where the largest competitor in the market has taken a large capital investment plan to develop their business in that area in CRB and the legacy company did not.

因此，我想再說一遍，這非常棒。然後是我們的 SBS 業務，我們在 SBS 上待的時間有點長，但我們確實在那裡看到了一些機會，因為我認為時間更長一點，但我現在對 SBS 中的機會感覺相當好。我可能會在三個月後改變主意。但此刻，我感覺相當好，而且我認為我們的團隊對此感覺相當好。最後，CRB，顯然，在這個領域，市場上最大的競爭對手已經採取了大規模的資本投資計劃來發展其在 CRB 領域的業務，而傳統公司卻沒有這樣做。

So we are still the number-two player in the market, believe it or not, and they're our mills, while not great, are still supplying our own integration and supplying good quality to our own integration. So that's good. But what plan we come up with for that business depends on how the rest of the market evolves and how we see things evolving in the CRB market. But we're a strong number-two player in that business. And customers don't want to have a dominant number-one player. So therefore, I think that we have a strong market position to defend there, but we just need to come up with the right strategy for us.

因此，不管您信不信，我們仍然是市場中第二大參與者，而我們的工廠雖然不是很好，但仍然在為我們提供自己的整合產品，並且為我們自己的整合產品提供良好的品質。這很好。但我們為該業務制定什麼計劃取決於其他市場如何發展以及我們如何看待 CRB 市場的發展。但我們在該行業中位居第二。而客戶也不希望擁有一個佔據主導地位的頭號玩家。因此，我認為我們在那裡擁有強大的市場地位，但我們只需要製定適合自己的策略。

Okay, that that's helpful. I'll turn it over.

好的，這很有幫助。我把它翻過來。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Patrick Mann, Bank of America.

美國銀行的 Patrick Mann。

Thanks very much for the call and opportunity to ask the question. Maybe a bit of a follow-up from the prior one. I mean you're talking a lot about the back to basics approach and improving all the underlying operations. But if you kind of zoom out a little bit and think about the weighting of the business overall in terms of capacity in containerboard, consumer board and converting. If I think about the old Smurfit Kappa, you're much more long paper, for example. Are you happy with that overall weighting in the balance of the business or kind of structurally or strategically is that how you want it to be set up? Yes, maybe just a little bit around that.

非常感謝您來電並給予我提問的機會。可能與之前的一個有一點點相似。我的意思是，你正在談論很多回歸基礎的方法和改進所有底層操作。但如果你稍微縮小一點，思考一下整個業務在箱板紙、消費紙板和轉換方面的產能方面的權重。例如，如果我想想舊的 Smurfit Kappa，你的論文要長得多。您是否對業務平衡的整體權重感到滿意？是的，也許只是一點點。

And then the second question would just be about good cash generation in the quarter. How should we think about the net debt target going from the 2.7 to under 2 over time? If you could talk about that.

第二個問題是關於本季的良好現金創造。我們應該如何看待淨債務目標隨著時間的推移從 2.7 降至 2 以下？如果你可以談論這個。

That's great, Patrick. I'll take the first and Ken take the second. I mean, on -- I mean, our philosophy as a company, we were basically fully integrated in some of our -- in our containerboard grades in legacy Smurfit Kappa and that would be our intention, together with some long-term customers, which we have, and as a seller in the free market, WestRock as is probably one of the biggest sellers in the free market, WestRock has some very good -- has a very good reputation. And we have long-term relationships with some excellent customers that pay the correct price to the company.

太好了，派崔克。我將選擇第一個，肯將選擇第二個。我的意思是，作為一家公司，我們的理念是，我們基本上完全融入了我們的一些傳統 Smurfit Kappa 箱板紙等級，這就是我們的意圖，與一些長期客戶一起，作為自由市場的賣家，WestRock 可能是自由市場上最大的賣家之一，WestRock 擁有非常好的聲譽。我們與一些優質客戶建立了長期合作關係，他們向公司支付了正確的價格。

So we would value that. And if you take those long-term customers plus our integration plus the synergies that we'll get through integration into our Latin American business, we feel that in a not-too-distant future, we'll be basically balanced in our containerboard system. We will not be ever balanced in our SAC conversion system because we don't have very many fat conversions, and we do produce lightweight sack paper.

所以我們很重視這一點。如果將這些長期客戶加上我們的整合以及透過整合我們的拉丁美洲業務而獲得的協同效應，我們認為在不久的將來，我們的箱板紙系統將基本實現平衡。我們的 SAC 轉換系統永遠不會達到平衡，因為我們的脂肪轉換並不多，而且我們確實會生產輕質袋紙。

And we do produce a -- and we are long in our consumer board grades, and that's something that I don't envisage us ever solving fully, but we just have to accept that we'll be a seller of those products and take the cyclicality of those particular products going forward. But they can be good or they can be bad at the moment. I think they're reasonably good, most of them. And -- but with regard to the core -- the main piece of our business, containerboard, I would expect us to be with some outside customers basically a balanced situation.

我們確實生產 - 而且我們在消費級板材方面擁有很長的庫存，我認為我們永遠無法完全解決這個問題，但我們必須接受我們將成為這些產品的賣家，並承擔這些特定產品未來的周期性。但目前它們可能是好的，也可能是壞的。我認為它們中的大多數都相當不錯。但就核心業務而言，也就是我們業務的主要部分——箱板紙，我希望我們能夠與一些外部客戶基本保持平衡。

Patrick, on the leverage point of 2.7%, if to 2.2%, I think we pointed as a long-term target through the cycle. But in reality, we're already kind of focused on beginning that journey as we would have done on the former Smurfit Kappa side to kind of to a better place in terms of net leverage, I think it happens over a few things. I mean clearly, earnings potential this organization should be ahead of where it is and equally, if you look at where we are in this year, that suggests that the top line will certainly grow, which no doubt helps your leverage target overall.

派崔克，關於槓桿率 2.7%（如果達到 2.2%），我認為這是我們在整個週期中指出的長期目標。但實際上，我們已經開始專注於開始這段旅程，就像我們在前 Smurfit Kappa 隊所做的那樣，在淨槓桿方面取得更好的成績，我認為這會透過一些事情實現。我的意思是，很明顯，該組織的獲利潛力應該領先於現在的水平，同樣，如果你看看我們今年的狀況，那就表明營收肯定會成長，這無疑有助於實現你的整體槓桿目標。

But I think within the business, we see some opportunities around working capital in particular to unlock value in the business. And I think as well through the capital cycle. I think it's about disciplined allocation, making the returns in the right place. And by returns, that gives you the cash flow. I mean in reality, I think the skill and expertise we've had in the past has been around -- that allocated capital, driving returns and making those trends, if you like, pay for themselves through the capital cycle.

但我認為，在業務內部，我們看到了一些圍繞營運資本的機會，特別是在釋放業務價值方面。我也認為，在資本週期中也是如此。我認為這與嚴格的分配有關，在正確的地方獲得回報。透過回報，你會得到現金流。我的意思是，實際上，我認為我們過去擁有的技能和專業知識已經存在——分配資本，推動回報並實現這些趨勢，如果你願意的話，可以透過資本週期收回成本。

So if you go back to the Tony's kind of rack record or the delivery side, where is the clearest indication of how we see the journey forward for the next few years, which is incremental capital going into the business, both supporting the dividend and its progression, delevering as a part of that because you should be driving out more cash than you put in and equally focusing on the commercial opportunity and growing both the top line and both importantly, I think, the margin. So it is a medium long-term target, but I think we're already beginning to look at the target of actions that will take us towards that over the more near term in that sense, particularly, I think, around where working capital is it.

因此，如果您回顧 Tony 的銷售記錄或交付方面，最清楚的跡象就是我們如何看待未來幾年的發展，即增量資本投入業務，既支持股息及其進展，去槓桿也是其中的一部分，因為你應該投入比投入更多的現金，同樣關注商業機會，同時增加營收和利潤率。所以這是一個中長期目標，但我認為我們已經開始考慮在短期內採取行動的目標，特別是圍繞營運資金的目標。

Yeah, thank you very much.

是的，非常感謝。

I think Ken is on the selling point. We believe we've got some good working capital opportunities in the business as we as we go forward.

我認為肯 (Ken) 正處於賣點。我們相信，隨著我們業務的不斷發展，我們將獲得一些良好的營運資本機會。

Thank you both.

謝謝你們兩位。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Matthew McKellar, RBC Capital Markets.

加拿大皇家銀行資本市場 (RBC Capital Markets) 的馬修麥凱勒 (Matthew McKellar)。

Good morning. Thanks for all the colors so far and for taking my questions. I'd like to start with just a follow-up question on SDS. You mentioned seeing some opportunities. I was wondering if you could just elaborate whether these are opportunities to sort of improve your own assets and operations or more related to developments in the markets. Any more color there would be helpful. Thank you.

早安.感謝您迄今為止提供的所有資訊以及回答我的問題。我想先問一個關於 SDS 的後續問題。您提到看到了一些機會。我想知道您是否可以詳細說明這些是否是改善您自己的資產和營運的機會，或者是否與市場發展更相關。更多顏色將會很有幫助。謝謝。

Yeah, Matt. I mean what I've seen so far is pretty good, I have to admit. But maybe the selling of the product hasn't been 100% focused in the right direction. And so we think we've got some opportunities really in the whole -- through our own integration to sell a lot more as we go forward. So I mean, that's really where we see the opportunity is in the marketplace that we can be a little bit more aggressive is the wrong word, but let's say a little bit more subtle in how we deal with the market which hasn't been done before.

是的，馬特。我的意思是，我必須承認，到目前為止我看到的都相當不錯。但產品的銷售可能沒有 100% 集中在正確的方向。因此，我們認為，從整體來看，我們確實有機會透過我們自己的整合來銷售更多產品。所以我的意思是，我們確實在市場上看到了機會，我們可以更積極一點，雖然說得不太準確，但是我們可以更巧妙一點，以前所未有的方式應對市場。

Okay. And just second for me. On LatAm, you kind of talked about continued progress in cost takeout efficiency, optimization of your cost base being a priority. Could you maybe just refresh us on your top focus items and most significant investments here as well as more broadly just what you're hoping to achieve in this region in 2025?

好的。對我來說，這只是第二名。關於拉美，您談到了成本削減效率的持續進步，優化成本基礎是當務之急。您能否向我們簡單介紹一下您在這裡最關注的項目和最重要的投資，以及更廣泛地說，您希望在 2025 年在該地區實現什麼目標？

Yeah. I mean, again, I would say the comment is for all of our regions. It doesn't just sit in the LatAm region. But specifically in LatAm, we have a large opportunity in Brazil. We got a very strong market position in that country with really great assets with good cost takeout opportunities, which we've already been identifying and doing. And a lot of progress to be made on the commercial side, too. Obviously, when we looked at the margins of the legacy Smurfit business and the margins of the legacy WestRock business, they were quite different.

是的。我再次強調，該評論是針對我們所有地區。它不僅位於拉美地區。但具體到拉丁美洲，我們在巴西有很大的機會。我們在該國擁有非常強大的市場地位，擁有非常優質的資產和良好的成本降低機會，這些我們都已經在識別和實施了。在商業方面也還有很大的進步空間。顯然，當我們觀察傳統 Smurfit 業務的利潤率和傳統 WestRock 業務的利潤率時，發現它們是相當不同的。

And so obviously, we're not going to the lower common denominator. We're going to the higher common denominator. And clearly, that gives us massive opportunity to improve the business there. So with -- as Ken mentioned in his speech there, we do have issues in Argentina with regard to volume, but that's a country-specific issue, a fabulous business there. We're number-two in the market. And with the innovations that we bring to that particular region, it's a very exciting region when the country stabilizes.

因此很明顯，我們不會選擇最低公分母。我們要追求更高的共同點。顯然，這為我們改善那裡的業務提供了巨大的機會。正如肯在演講中提到的那樣，我們在阿根廷確實存在數量方面的問題，但這是該國特有的問題，那裡的生意非常好。我們在市場上排名第二。透過我們為該地區帶來的創新，當國家穩定下來時，這裡就會成為一個非常令人興奮的地區。

That's always a risk you have, Matt, in those countries that the countries tend to be a little bit more volatile, but at the same time, when I see what -- even in January, when I see the results out of Brazil and how we've developed the business in just a short -- such a short period of time, I think it's a huge opportunity for us to grow.

馬特，在那些波動性更大的國家，這始終是一種風險，但與此同時，當我看到——即使是在 1 月份，當我看到巴西的業績以及我們如何在如此短的時間內發展業務時，我認為這對我們來說是一個巨大的成長機會。

Great thanks so much for the help, I'll turn it back.

非常感謝您的幫助，我會回報您的。

Thanks, Matt.

謝謝，馬特。

Thank you. In the interest of time, this concludes today's question-and-answer session. I'll now hand the conference back for closing remarks.

謝謝。由於時間關係，今天的問答環節到此結束。我現在將會議交還，以便大家作結束語。

Yes, well, thank you, operator, and thank you all for your time and attention today. As I mentioned, our objective in Smurfit WestRock is, as we've said, to realize the considerable combined potential of the companies together.

是的，謝謝接線員，也感謝您今天的時間和關注。正如我所提到的，我們在 Smurfit WestRock 的目標是共同實現兩家公司巨大的綜合潛力。

Again, we believe the opportunity is bigger and better than we first thought. Smurfit WestRock, I believe, is the right business at the right time. And most importantly, as I said on this call and as Ken has reiterated with the right people to do the job. So thanks for your time. I appreciate you following the company and look forward to chatting to you individually going forward very much. Take care and have a good rest of the day.

我們再次相信，機會比我們最初想像的更大、更好。我相信，Smurfit WestRock 是在正確的時間做出的正確決定。最重要的是，正如我在這次電話中所說的以及肯所重申的那樣，我們需要合適的人來做這項工作。感謝您抽出時間。感謝您關注本公司，我非常期待今後與您單獨交談。保重，祝您今天剩餘時間愉快。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。