Spotify Technology SA (SPOT) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon and welcome to Spotify's third-quarter 2024 earnings call and webcast. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded.

下午好，歡迎參加 Spotify 2024 年第三季財報電話會議和網路廣播。 （操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次電話會議正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to Bryan Goldberg, Head of Investor Relations. Thank you. Please go ahead.

我現在想將電話轉給投資者關係主管 Bryan Goldberg。謝謝。請繼續。

Thanks, operator, and welcome to Spotify's third-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. Joining us today will be Daniel Ek, our CEO; Christian Luiga, our CFO. We'll start with opening comments from Daniel and Christian, and afterwards, we'll be happy to answer your questions.

感謝營運商，歡迎參加 Spotify 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。今天加入我們的是我們的執行長 Daniel Ek；克里斯蒂安·路易加，我們的財務長。我們將從 Daniel 和 Christian 的開場評論開始，然後，我們將很樂意回答您的問題。

Questions can be submitted by going to slido.com and using the code #SpotifyEarningsQ324. Analysts can ask questions directly into Slido and all participants can then vote on the questions they find the most relevant. If for some reason, you don't have access to Slido, you can e-mail Investor Relations at ir@spotify.com, and we'll add in your question.

可以造訪 slido.com 並使用程式碼#SpotifyEarningsQ324 提交問題。分析師可以直接向 Slido 提問，然後所有參與者都可以對他們認為最相關的問題進行投票。如果您因某種原因無法造訪 Slido，您可以向投資者關係部發送電子郵件至 ir@spotify.com，我們將添加您的問題。

Before we begin, let me quickly cover the Safe Harbor. During this call, we'll be making certain forward-looking statements, including projections or estimates about the future performance of the company. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results could materially differ because of factors discussed on today's call, in our shareholder deck, and in filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

在我們開始之前，讓我快速介紹一下安全港。在這次電話會議中，我們將做出某些前瞻性陳述，包括對公司未來表現的預測或估計。這些陳述基於當前的預期和假設，存在風險和不確定性。由於今天的電話會議、我們的股東資料以及向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中討論的因素，實際結果可能會存在重大差異。

During this call, we'll also refer to certain non-IFRS financial measures. Reconciliations between our IFRS and non-IFRS financial measures can be found in our shareholder deck, in the financial section of our Investor Relations website, and also furnished today on Form 6-K.

在本次電話會議中，我們也將提及某些非 IFRS 財務指標。我們的 IFRS 和非 IFRS 財務指標之間的調節可以在我們的股東資料、投資者關係網站的財務部分找到，並且今天也在表格 6-K 中提供。

And with that, I'll turn it over to Daniel.

有了這個，我會把它交給丹尼爾。

All right. Thanks, Bryan, and hey, everyone, and thanks for joining us. So we're in L.A. this week to spend time with creators. And over the next few days, we'll have a couple of announcements that I'm sure will be of interest to you related to our expansion of video on the platform so more to come on that.

好的。謝謝布萊恩，嘿，大家，謝謝您加入我們。因此，我們本週在洛杉磯與創作者共度時光。在接下來的幾天裡，我們將發布幾項公告，我相信您會對這些公告感興趣，這些公告與我們在平台上擴展影片有關，因此還會發布更多公告。

But I want to start this call by welcoming our new CFO, Christian Luiga. I know some of you have already met him and I hope the rest of you have the opportunity to do so soon. Christian brings incredible expertise and proven leadership to Spotify, and I'm grateful to have the benefit of his track record. I also wanted to take a moment to thank Ben Kung for the fantastic job he's done as Interim CFO. It's been seamless, which is a huge testament to all that he's brought to the role.

但我想先歡迎我們的新任財務長克里斯蒂安·盧伊加 (Christian Luiga)。我知道你們中的一些人已經見過他，我希望你們其他人盡快有機會見到他。 Christian 為 Spotify 帶來了令人難以置信的專業知識和久經考驗的領導力，我很高興能從他的業績記錄中獲益。我還想花點時間感謝 Ben Kung 作為臨時財務長所做的出色工作。這是天衣無縫的，這充分證明了他為這個角色所做的一切。

As you can see, there's a lot of positives this quarter. Q3 is another standout in what you've heard me refer to as the year of monetization, and we're on track for our first full year of profitability. We outperformed on both subs and MAU. Revenues were in line, and we had significant beats on gross margin and operating income. We also had another sequential and all-time record quarter of free cash flow.

正如您所看到的，本季有很多積極因素。第三季是我所謂的貨幣化年中的另一個突出表現，我們有望實現第一個全年獲利。我們在訂閱人數和每月活躍用戶數方面都表現出色。收入維持穩定，毛利率和營業收入均大幅領先。我們的自由現金流也連續創歷史新高。

Back at our 2022 Investor Day, we set clear goals for Spotify's growth, and this quarter marks a key point where we successfully achieved and even surpassed those targets, doing so slightly ahead of schedule. I think this demonstrates what we've been saying over the past year. Spotify is not just a great product but well on its way to become a great business. A big thanks to our team for their hard work, dedication, and making this vision a reality.

回到 2022 年投資者日，我們為 Spotify 的成長設定了明確的目標，本季是我們成功實現甚至超越這些目標的關鍵點，略超預期。我認為這證明了我們在過去一年中一直在說的話。 Spotify 不僅是一個很棒的產品，而且正在成為一個偉大的企業。非常感謝我們的團隊的辛勤工作和奉獻精神，並使這個願景成為現實。

Over the past few years, we've continuously modulated our time and resources between focusing on growth and optimizing for profitability. This approach led to our record year in 2023 for MAU and Premium additions. However, as the macro environment shifted, we made the difficult but necessary decision to adjust and focus on our efforts on cost efficiency.

在過去的幾年裡，我們不斷調整我們的時間和資源，在關注成長和優化獲利之間進行調整。這種方法使我們在 2023 年創下了每月活躍用戶數和高級用戶增加的紀錄。然而，隨著宏觀環境的變化，我們做出了艱難但必要的決定，進行調整，專注於提高成本效率。

And we did this while continuing to transform our business, which included expanding into audiobooks in Europe, launching new subscription tiers, and bringing more video onto the platform, just to name a few. And today's results demonstrate what we've consistently seen, the importance of finding the right balance between growth and reinvestment. So as we head into the year, I'm sure you're asking, what does this all mean for Q4 and beyond?

我們在做到這一點的同時，繼續進行業務轉型，其中包括在歐洲擴展到有聲讀物、推出新的訂閱等級以及在平台上引入更多影片等等。今天的結果證明了我們一直以來所看到的，即在成長和再投資之間找到適當平衡的重要性。因此，當我們進入今年時，我肯定您會問，這對第四季度及以後意味著什麼？

We will close out Q4 just as we started the year, laser focused on monetization and the underlying fundamentals of our business. Looking at our forecast, we expect to make further progress across all of our key metrics, which sets us up with plenty of runway for growth and profitability expansion in the years to come.

我們將像年初一樣結束第四季度，重點是貨幣化和業務的基本面。從我們的預測來看，我們預計所有關鍵指標都將取得進一步進展，這為我們未來幾年的成長和獲利能力擴張奠定了充足的基礎。

But make no mistake, we're not here to merely optimize for today. I am as energized as I've ever been about the current landscape of technology. What's unfolding in AI with all of its knock-on effects is both thrilling and humbling.

但請不要誤會，我們來這裡不僅僅是為了今天的優化。我對當前的技術前景一如既往地充滿活力。人工智慧領域正在發生的事情及其所有連鎖反應既令人興奮又令人謙卑。

Moments like this don't come often. They're inflection points where you can either let the opportunity slip by or you can seize it and press forward with conviction. We're choosing the latter, fully committed, heads down, and building for a future full of possibility.

這樣的時刻並不常見。它們是轉折點，你可以讓機會溜走，也可以抓住它並堅定信念地向前邁進。我們選擇後者，全力以赴，埋頭苦幹，為充滿可能性的未來而建立。

So as you think about Spotify in 2025 and beyond, picture a company that operates with the same disciplined management you've seen this year but one that also has the ambition to seize the opportunities presented by what's happening in technology. In the near term, I see potential for transformative shifts in music discovery and new innovative ways to connect artists and fans like never before.

因此，當你想到 2025 年及以後的 Spotify 時，請想像一下，這家公司的營運管理與你今年看到的一樣嚴格，但也有雄心勃勃地抓住科技領域所帶來的機會。在短期內，我看到了音樂發現方面發生變革性轉變的潛力，以及以前所未有的方式連結藝術家和粉絲的創新方式。

All great stuff for the music industry, which will drive further growth across our core business. And just as we successfully entered the audiobook space, we're committed to making the targeted investment that also expands Spotify into new areas, enhance the platform and deepen the value we bring to users.

所有這些對於音樂產業來說都是偉大的事情，這將推動我們核心業務的進一步成長。正如我們成功進入有聲書領域一樣，我們致力於進行有針對性的投資，將 Spotify 擴展到新的領域，增強平台並加深我們為用戶帶來的價值。

And this relentless focus on consistently delivering exceptional value well beyond the price a user pays for Spotify is how we drive sustainable growth for all stakeholders across our entire ecosystem. So to conclude, our commitment to the long-term goals we shared at the Investor Day remains unwavering, but our journey will, as always, be defined by bold innovation and relentless pursuit of what's next.

我們堅持不懈地致力於持續提供遠遠超出用戶為 Spotify 支付的價格的卓越價值，這就是我們推動整個生態系統中所有利益相關者可持續增長的方式。總而言之，我們對投資者日分享的長期目標的承諾仍然堅定不移，但我們的旅程將一如既往地由大膽創新和對未來的不懈追求來定義。

And with that, I'm going to turn it over to Christian to share his perspective and then he'll provide more details into the numbers.

接下來，我將把它交給克里斯蒂安來分享他的觀點，然後他將提供更多關於數字的細節。

Thanks, Daniel, and thanks, everyone, for joining us. I couldn't be more excited to join Spotify. I've been on board for just a short time and I'm impressed with the talented teams I met and I see great potential in the product business. I'm looking forward to working together in efficiently allocating our capital and scaling the business towards our long-term goals. Turning then to the quarterly results.

謝謝丹尼爾，也謝謝大家加入我們。加入 Spotify 令我無比興奮。我加入公司的時間很短，我遇到的才華橫溢的團隊給我留下了深刻的印象，我看到了產品業務的巨大潛力。我期待著共同努力，有效地分配我們的資本並擴大業務規模，以實現我們的長期目標。然後轉向季度業績。

Quarter three marked another strong quarter for the business. MAU grew by 14 million to 640 million and we added 6 million net subscribers, finishing at 252 million. Both MAU and subscriber growth outperformed our guidance by 1 million.

第三季標誌著該業務又一個強勁的季度。 MAU 成長了 1,400 萬，達到 6.4 億，淨訂閱用戶增加了 600 萬，最終達到 2.52 億。月活躍用戶數和用戶成長均超出我們的指導值 100 萬。

Total revenue grew 21% year on year on a constant currency basis to EUR4 billion. Premium revenue rose 24% year on year on a constant currency basis, driven by continued subscriber growth and ARPU acceleration associated with price increases. Our advertising business saw currency-neutral growth of 7% year on year, reflecting another quarter of volatile market spending on brand-related campaigns.

以固定匯率計算，總營收年增 21%，達到 40 億歐元。在用戶持續成長以及與價格上漲相關的 ARPU 加速的推動下，以固定匯率計算，保費收入年增 24%。我們的廣告業務在扣除貨幣因素後年增 7%，反映出品牌相關活動的市場支出又一個季度出現波動。

Moving on to profitability. We're pleased that we have delivered on our intermediate-term gross margin target of 30%. In fact, gross margin came in at a record 31.1%, surpassing guidance by 90 basis points due to primarily content cost favorability. Operating income of EUR454 million also set a new record, aided by gross profit strength.

轉向盈利。我們很高興我們實現了 30% 的中期毛利率目標。事實上，由於內容成本有利，毛利率達到創紀錄的 31.1%，超出指導值 90 個基點。多虧了毛利強勁，4.54 億歐元的營業收入也創下新紀錄。

Operating income was impacted by EUR54 million in social charges, which in the quarter were EUR39 million higher than our forecast due to share price appreciation. As a reminder, we don't forecast share price movements in our outlook for the business since they are outside our control. Finally, the free cash flow was a record EUR711 million in the quarter.

營業收入受到 5,400 萬歐元社會費用的影響，由於股價上漲，本季社會費用比我們的預測高出 3,900 萬歐元。提醒一下，我們不會在業務前景中預測股價變動，因為它們超出了我們的控制範圍。最後，本季自由現金流達到創紀錄的 7.11 億歐元。

And performance here was driven by our improved operating income profile as well as net working capital favorability. Looking ahead to fourth quarter guidance, we are forecasting 665 million MAU, an increase of 25 million from quarter three and 260 million subscribers, an increase of 8 million over quarter three.

這裡的業績是由我們改善的營業收入狀況以及淨營運資本偏好所推動的。展望第四季指引，我們預計每月活躍用戶數將達到 6.65 億，比第三季增加 2,500 萬，訂閱用戶數將達到 2.6 億，比第三季增加 800 萬。

We are also forecasting EUR4.1 billion in total revenue. As you may have seen in today's results, favorable foreign exchange rate movements created a larger-than-expected headwind to the business in quarter three. These movements have also impacted our quarter four outlook by approximately EUR80 million.

我們也預測總收入為 41 億歐元。正如您可能在今天的業績中看到的那樣，有利的匯率變動給第三季的業務帶來了超出預期的阻力。這些變動也對我們第四季的前景產生了約 8,000 萬歐元的影響。

We also anticipate gross margin of 31.8% and operating income of EUR481 million, pointing to our first full year of positive operating income of EUR1.4 billion. With respect to subscriber net additions, the very low levels of churn that we expect in the six markets where we've recently announced price increases is also incorporated into our quarter four outlook.

我們也預期毛利率為 31.8%，營業收入為 4.81 億歐元，這意味著我們將首次全年實現 14 億歐元的正營業收入。就訂戶淨增量而言，我們預計最近宣布漲價的六個市場的用戶流失率非常低，這也納入了我們對第四季的展望。

This is consistent with what we have seen historically. We have also incorporated our ongoing actions to drive better subscriber monetization. Although new pricing will contribute towards ARPU growth in quarter four overall, we expect the lapping of 2023 year's price increases that we had in 63 markets, that they will lead to an approximately 400 basis point moderation of a year on year ARPU growth on a constant currency basis in our revenue outlook.

這與我們所看到的歷史是一致的。我們也整合了我們正在進行的行動來推動更好的訂戶貨幣化。儘管新的定價將有助於第四季度 ARPU 的整體成長，但我們預計 2023 年 63 個市場的價格上漲將導致 ARPU 成長同比放緩約 400 個基點。

In terms of our recent gross margin improvement, as Daniel mentioned, we are very pleased with the strides we made this year. The significant rate of improvement in our gross margin in 2024, which exceeded even our own plans, has been exceptional and should be viewed as such.

正如丹尼爾所提到的，就我們最近的毛利率改善而言，我們對今年的進步感到非常滿意。 2024 年，我們的毛利率大幅提高，甚至超出了我們自己的計劃，這是非常出色的，應該被視為如此。

Looking ahead, we see substantial runway to grow margins and income over the long run, which will be driven by a continuing focus on improving our product and business via targeted investments, disciplined management, and improving monetization.

展望未來，我們認為從長遠來看，利潤和收入的成長還有很大的空間，這將透過有針對性的投資、嚴格的管理和提高貨幣化來持續專注於改進我們的產品和業務來推動。

Finally on capital allocation, we have a strong balance sheet with EUR6.1 billion in cash and equivalents and EUR1.3 billion in an exchangeable debt and a trailing 12-month free cash flow profile of EUR1.8 billion. As a sustainable growth company, our top priority remains to invest in opportunities that make sense for the business with high returns. We are, of course, considering our shareholders as part of our overall framework as well.

最後在資本配置方面，我們擁有強大的資產負債表，其中包括 61 億歐元的現金和等價物、13 億歐元的可交換債務以及 18 億歐元的過去 12 個月自由現金流狀況。作為一家可持續發展的公司，我們的首要任務仍然是投資於對高回報業務有意義的機會。當然，我們也將股東視為我們整體框架的一部分。

Overall, we are very pleased with our positioning heading into the year-end and looking forward to building on our momentum going forward.

總體而言，我們對年底的定位非常滿意，並期待在未來繼續發展。

With that, I hand things back to you, Bryan, for Q&A.

布萊恩，我將這些東西交還給你問答。

All right. Thanks, Christian. Again, if you've got any questions, please go to slido.com, #SpotifyEarningsQ324. We'll be reading the questions in the order they appear in the queue with respect to how people vote up their preference for questions.

好的。謝謝，克里斯蒂安。再次強調，如果您有任何疑問，請造訪 slido.com，#SpotifyEarningsQ324。我們將按照問題在隊列中出現的順序閱讀問題，以了解人們如何投票選出他們對問題的偏好。

Today's first question is going to come from Eric Sheridan on capital allocation. How are you thinking about a multiyear approach to capital allocation as your profitability levels continue to scale? And can you frame your priorities for capital between growth investments and possible capital returns?

今天的第一個問題將來自埃里克·謝裡丹（Eric Sheridan）關於資本配置的問題。隨著您的獲利水準不斷擴大，您如何考慮多年的資本配置方法？您能否在成長投資和可能的資本回報之間確定資本的優先順序？

Well, going back to my remark but also just emphasizing again, it's really amazing and good to start this journey for me and for the company now with a strong balance sheet which we have. It is an important and a great question. It's fantastic to see now how we have brought healthy returns in the past and the investments we have made.

好吧，回到我的言論，但再次強調，對於我和現在擁有強大資產負債表的公司來說，開始這段旅程真是太棒了，也很好。這是一個重要且偉大的問題。現在看到我們過去如何帶來健康的回報以及我們所做的投資真是太棒了。

And I think the main focus is to continue to focus on LTV over CAC ratio. And I believe the investments that we have made in audiobooks and others are those that we should look for go forward, how do we create growth and the sustainable profitability in this company.

我認為主要關注點是繼續關注 LTV 而非 CAC 比率。我相信我們在有聲書和其他方面所做的投資是我們未來應該尋求的投資，我們如何在這家公司創造成長和永續獲利能力。

Right. Next question is going to come from Batya Levi on gross margin performance. Can you provide more color on what drove the gross margin beat versus your outlook? What are some of the drivers for further margin expansion sequentially?

正確的。下一個問題將來自 Batya Levi 關於毛利率表現的問題。您能否提供更多關於推動毛利率成長的因素與您的前景的比較？利潤率進一步擴大的驅動因素有哪些？

Thank you. The gross margin improved in a way that it was a continuation of quarter two. I mean, we have a very good marketplace program that actually is developing well and has improved the gross margin. We also have streaming and delivery costs and I have to add also payment costs that we are scaling on.

謝謝。毛利率有所改善，這是第二季的延續。我的意思是，我們有一個非常好的市場計劃，實際上發展良好並且提高了毛利率。我們還有串流媒體和交付成本，我還必須添加我們正​​在擴大的支付成本。

And on top of that, we have the US publishing rate favorability that comes through our books. And that is the reason for quarter two and that's the reason for quarter three improvement. And I'm not going to go in that much on future drivers.

最重要的是，我們的圖書在美國享有很高的出版率。這就是第二季和第三季有所改善的原因。我不會過度談論未來的車手。

Okay. Our next question comes from Doug Anmuth on 2025. You've now reached the low end of your medium-term financial targets. How are you thinking about drivers of incremental leverage into 2025? More of the same across Marketplace, bundling price increases, podcast improvement or are there other new initiatives?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自 Doug Anmuth，涉及 2025 年。您如何看待 2025 年槓桿增量的驅動因素？市場上有更多相同的情況，捆綁價格上漲，播客改進還是有其他新舉措？

Yeah, I really do believe it's kind of a bit of both. As you look at 2025, it's pretty much a continuation of the trends that you -- some of them you already spoke about yourself. I would probably add audiobooks to the mix, too.

是的，我確實相信兩者兼具。當您展望 2025 年時，您會發現這幾乎是您所談論的趨勢的延續，其中一些趨勢您已經談到過。我可能也會添加有聲書。

But as you kind of go into the later part of the year and certainly 2026, we are looking at new initiatives, too. So the story of Spotify, if you know us by now, through our history of a public company has really been one where we constantly keep innovating and we keep pushing the envelope of what our consumers are expecting for us.

但隨著今年下半年，當然還有 2026 年的到來，我們也在考慮新的措施。因此，如果您現在了解我們，那麼 Spotify 的故事就是我們作為一家上市公司的歷史，我們不斷創新，不斷挑戰消費者對我們期望的極限。

And we really do that through that lens of the value-to-price ratio that we keep talking about. How do we constantly and relentlessly add more and more value to our consumers? Because we know that if we focus on that, eventually, price will be there for us to take as I think we've proven this year.

我們確實是透過我們一直在談論的性價比來做到這一點的。我們如何不斷地、不懈地為我們的消費者增加越來越多的價值？因為我們知道，如果我們專注於這一點，最終，我們將能夠接受價格，正如我認為我們今年已經證明的那樣。

Okay. Our next question is going to come from Justin Patterson on pricing. The record labels have recently signaled that they expect industry prices to increase. Given the product innovation at Spotify relative to peers, how do you think about setting price in relation to the broader industry? Do you need competitors to raise price to support your own price increases?

好的。我們的下一個問題將來自賈斯汀·帕特森（Justin Patterson）有關定價的問題。唱片公司最近表示，他們預計產業價格將會上漲。鑑於 Spotify 相對於同行的產品創新，您如何看待與更廣泛的行業相關的定價？你是否需要競爭對手提高價格來支持自己的漲價？

Yeah. I mean, look, we feel really good about the proposition of Spotify and our value-to-price. And in many markets, in fact, we are a price leader. And I think that is a testament to the great offering we have at Spotify. Now with all that said, obviously, every product in the marketplace lives in respect of the competitive set as well, so that is not an endless thing.

是的。我的意思是，你看，我們對 Spotify 的主張和我們的性價比感覺非常好。事實上，在許多市場，我們都是價格領導者。我認為這證明了 Spotify 所提供的優質產品。話雖如此，顯然，市場上的每一種產品也都依賴競爭，所以這並不是無止盡的事情。

The key thing, however, is we are, rather than speaking about the competitive set, we are relentlessly focusing on how we can keep adding more value to our consumers and how do we measure that value. And you've heard us talk in the past about these concepts quite a bit.

然而，關鍵的是，我們不是在談論競爭環境，而是不懈地關注如何持續為消費者增加更多價值以及如何衡量該價值。您過去已經多次聽到我們談論這些概念。

So you talk -- hear us talk about everything from churn. You hear us talking about engagement being a leading indicator for low churn and so on. So these are all metrics that we're tracking relentlessly.

那麼，您來聽聽我們談論有關客戶流失的一切。您聽到我們談論參與度是低流失率的領先指標等等。因此，這些都是我們不斷追蹤的指標。

And when we see them and we keep developing and enhancing our proposition and our engagement with our customers, we will eventually have opportunity to raise price as well.

當我們看到它們並不斷發展和增強我們的主張以及與客戶的互動時，我們最終也將有機會提高價格。

Okay. Our next question comes from Jessica Reif Ehrlich on advertising. There have been reports that you've built your own ad exchange and can tie into demand-side platforms such as The Trade Desk. Can you provide some color on the time to ramp up, how quickly you can scale? And when will it "move the needle" on your advertising revenue?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自傑西卡·雷夫·埃利希（Jessica Reif Ehrlich）關於廣告的問題。有報導稱，您已經建立了自己的廣告交易平台，並且可以與 The Trade Desk 等需求方平台聯繫起來。您能否提供一些關於加速時間以及擴展速度的資訊？什麼時候它會對您的廣告收入產生「重大影響」？

Yeah, thank you. I just want to remind ourselves about the journey we're on also. I mean, we -- our ad business today have been heavily reliant on direct sales and top funnel brand spend. And therefore, I mean, we've seen over the years the type of ads business that we built has an exposure to the macro trends. So with this, we have now diversified and changed our platform and built this Spotify ad exchange and moving on with The Trade Desk as a test pilot.

是的，謝謝。我只是想提醒自己我們正在經歷的旅程。我的意思是，我們今天的廣告業務嚴重依賴直接銷售和頂級通路品牌支出。因此，我的意思是，多年來我們已經看到我們建立的廣告業務類型與宏觀趨勢息息相關。因此，我們現在已經多元化並改變了我們的平台，並建立了這個 Spotify 廣告交易平台，並繼續以 The Trade Desk 作為測試試點。

What we do see is that 2025 will be a year of testing and trying out this, and we will see the impact going into 2026. It is early days. We aren't new to the auction environment, and it's important that we are very deliberate and careful about how we roll out to supply into these channels. But we're also, at the same time, very excited that this will help us to change.

我們確實看到，2025 年將是測試和嘗試這一點的一年，我們將在 2026 年看到影響。我們對拍賣環境並不陌生，重要的是我們對如何向這些管道供應產品要非常深思熟慮和謹慎。但同時，我們也非常高興這將有助於我們做出改變。

Okay. Our next question comes from Richard Greenfield on a Super Premium product offering. While some of the labels have talked publicly about this, there doesn't appear to be a consensus of what the record labels or artists want the product to be. What does Spotify want the offering to be? And how involved with the artist or will the artist need to be to make this work?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自理查德·格林菲爾德（Richard Greenfield）關於超級優質產品的問題。雖然有些唱片公司已經公開討論過這一點，但唱片公司或藝人想要的產品似乎並沒有共識。 Spotify 希望提供什麼產品？藝術家需要如何參與才能完成這項工作？

Yeah. So overall, just as a reminder, we have talked about this in the past quarters as well. We are excited about this and just to set expectations, we are moving from this one-size-fits-all markets that quite often happens in early development where you have fewer SKUs to then as you keep growing into more and more mature marketplaces, you add more SKUs to address more of the market.

是的。總的來說，作為提醒，我們在過去幾季也討論過這個問題。我們對此感到興奮，只是為了設定期望，我們正在從這種一刀切的市場轉變，這種市場在早期開發中經常發生，其中您的SKU 越來越少，然後隨著您不斷發展到越來越成熟的市場，您增加更多 SKU 來滿足更多市場需求。

That is sort of how you should think about the evolution of Spotify. And this higher-priced music tier of Spotify is certainly one that I think will have a lot of growth for the music industry and something that consumers will love to.

這就是你應該如何看待 Spotify 的演變。我認為 Spotify 的這種價格較高的音樂產品肯定會為音樂產業帶來很大的成長，也是消費者會喜歡的東西。

I can't really talk about specifics for it. But again, I can talk about the principle that's driving this. The principles for us is always the same, which is how do we create something consumers love but that also delivers value back to creators? And you can go back to vinyl buyers. You can go back to all of these super fans that already exist to look for clues in what -- or some of the things are that they value.

我真的無法談論它的具體細節。但我可以再次談談推動這一趨勢的原則。我們的原則始終是相同的，那就是我們如何創造消費者喜愛的東西，同時也為創造者帶來價值？您可以回到黑膠唱片買家那裡。你可以回到所有這些已經存在的超級粉絲那裡，尋找他們重視什麼或某些東西的線索。

Some of those things are proximity to artists. Some of those things are, of course, better sound quality and a bunch of other things. I can't get into specifics but I think I've left enough breadcrumbs for you guys to get excited by.

其中一些是與藝術家的接近。當然，其中一些是更好的音質和其他一些東西。我無法透露具體細節，但我想我已經留下了足夠的麵包屑讓你們興奮不已。

Okay. Our next question comes from Benjamin Black on 2025 framing. 2023 was the year of efficiency. In 2024, you're proving out the unit economics with the strong gross margin performance. What will the story of 2025 be?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自 Benjamin Black 關於 2025 年框架的問題。 2023年是效率年。 2024 年，您將透過強勁的毛利率表現證明單位經濟效益。 2025年將會有怎樣的故事呢？

Yeah. I wish I had a much cleaner way of positioning the story, but the story of 2025 is growth with profitability, the mix of both being the story. So it's really proven that it's not just about growth or just about profitability, but that we can deliver both at the same time.

是的。我希望我能有一個更清晰的方式來定位這個故事，但 2025 年的故事是成長和獲利能力的結合，兩者都是故事。因此，事實證明，這不僅僅是關於成長或獲利能力，而且我們可以同時實現這兩點。

And as I mentioned in my opening remarks, we're very excited about what we are seeing right now and the inflection points that sometimes opens up as technology becomes available for us to add value to consumers. And this adding value is the key long-term indicator, I think, for building a very strong business.

正如我在開場白中提到的，我們對現在所看到的情況感到非常興奮，而且隨著科技的發展，我們可以為消費者增加價值，有時會出現轉折點。我認為，這種增值是建立非常強大的業務的關鍵長期指標。

And so we see a lot of those opportunities in 2025. And obviously, we will remain a profitable company as we're pursuing those investments.

因此，到 2025 年，我們會看到很多這樣的機會。

All right. Another question from Rich Greenfield on advertising. Advertising revenue is growing slower than MAUs and has shrunk from over 14% of revenues to now under 12%. We understand the softness in brand advertising, but there seems to be a growing disconnect between the engagement of your audience and ad dollars. Is your programmatic push the fix alone for advertising?

好的。里奇·格林菲爾德提出了另一個關於廣告的問題。廣告收入的成長速度慢於每月活躍用戶數，並且已從佔收入的 14% 以上縮減至目前的 12% 以下。我們理解品牌廣告的疲軟性，但受眾的參與度和廣告收入似乎越來越脫節。您的程式化推播僅解決廣告問題嗎？

Thank you. Let me go back and just remind us again here. I just want to say that we actively build out to become a more automated business, to better accommodate the external demand. We do rebrand our self-serve platform, Spot's Ads Manager, and we're also piloting our first supply-side programmatic platform, Spotify Ad Exchange. And I think Programmatic is a big part of the solution, that's for sure.

謝謝。讓我回去再次提醒我們。我只是想說，我們積極打造自動化程度較高的業務，並且更好地適應外部需求。我們確實重塑了我們的自助服務平台 Spot 的廣告管理器，我們也正在試行我們的第一個供應方程式化平台 Spotify Ad Exchange。我認為程序化是解決方案的重要組成部分，這是肯定的。

But there are also other things into the mix, driving more measurement, diversifying ad formats, et cetera, that will help us. And on Programmatic, we should view that as a [ single fix ] with Programmatic comes auction, and auction is a new thing for us and that will be a big support in this journey.

但還有其他一些因素可以幫助我們，例如推動更多的衡量、使廣告格式多樣化等等。在程序化方面，我們應該認為程序化的[單一修復]帶來了拍賣，而拍賣對我們來說是一個新事物，這將是這趟旅程的巨大支持。

All right. Another question from Doug Anmuth for Christian. Christian, since joining several weeks ago, where have you been most focused? How should we think about your operating philosophy? And has anything surprised you thus far about the company?

好的。道格·安姆斯向克里斯蒂安提出的另一個問題。 Christian，自從幾週前加入以來，您最關注的是什麼？我們該如何看待你們的經營理念？到目前為止，該公司有什麼讓您感到驚訝的嗎？

Well, I'm getting a little bit senior so I don't get surprised that often any longer. But it is amazing to see the journey and the results the company has accomplished, I have to say again. And when you get into the company, you see it also hands on. And that is always something that gives you a little bit warmth. And that's a very good question also, what have I done my first two months in the company.

好吧，我已經長大了一點，所以我不會再經常感到驚訝了。但我不得不再說一遍，看到公司的歷程和所取得的成果真是令人驚嘆。當你進入公司後，你會發現它也是親力親為。這總是能給你一點溫暖的東西。這也是一個很好的問題，我在公司的前兩個月做了什麼。

And to be very explicit, I mean, the first five, six weeks, I spent trying to learn and understand, meeting my colleagues and external partners. Everything for what drives the business, how are we set up, how does the company work, and what are the drivers.

明確地說，我的意思是，前五、六週，我花了很多時間嘗試學習和理解，與同事和外部合作夥伴會面。一切都是為了推動業務發展，我們是如何成立的，公司如何運作，以及驅動因素是什麼。

And then I have spent quite a lot of time making sure I'm in control of the numbers that we just present today to the market. And from there, I will discuss with management how we should take things going forward after this. So that's really where I started.

然後我花了很多時間來確保我能夠控制我們今天向市場展示的數字。從那時起，我將與管理層討論我們此後應該如何推進事情。這就是我真正開始的地方。

And I just want to again say that my -- I'm really excited. And my style then, well, I would leave it to others to talk about my style. But I'm quite hands on. I usually say I work with a short screwdriver that makes me come close to the details to understand them before I go in and decide on how we should do things in a broader scale.

我只想再次說，我真的很興奮。那麼我的風格，好吧，我會把它留給別人來談論我的風格。但我很親力親為。我通常說我用一把短螺絲起子工作，這讓我在進入並決定我們應該如何在更廣泛的範圍內做事之前更接近細節並理解它們。

Okay. Another question from Jessica Reif Ehrlich on audiobooks. Can you provide an update on audiobooks usage and engagement?

好的。傑西卡·雷夫·埃利希關於有聲書的另一個問題。您能否提供有聲書使用和參與度的最新資訊？

Yeah. Thank you, Jessica. We're very excited about audiobooks. And it's fascinating to see a year into this journey how much has happened. We -- as we launched about a year ago, we thought we had a pretty comprehensive library of title, but we've more than doubled now the number of titles we have available, which is really fantastic.

是的。謝謝你，潔西卡。我們對有聲書感到非常興奮。看到這趟旅程一年來發生了多少事情，真是令人著迷。我們——大約一年前推出時，我們認為我們擁有一個相當全面的遊戲庫，但現在我們可用的遊戲數量增加了一倍多，這真是太棒了。

And we are seeing strong, strong, strong adoption across the board, and the adoption per user is also growing very nicely. So for instance, in the US among the audiobook users, we're seeing more than five hours more consumption per Spotify users.

我們看到全面的採用率非常強勁，而且每個用戶的採用率也在快速成長。例如，在美國的有聲書用戶中，我們發現每位 Spotify 用戶的消費時間增加了五個多小時。

And remember, Spotify is already a very well-used service. So the fact that we can see five more hours of consumption on average is a pretty strong testament to what a great proposition this is for consumers. So we're very excited.

請記住，Spotify 已經是一項非常常用的服務。因此，我們可以看到平均多花五個小時的事實有力地證明了這對消費者來說是多麼好的提議。所以我們非常興奮。

Okay. Another question from Rich Greenfield on sports. We've seen Amazon and Netflix push into sports to build their respective advertising businesses. Does Spotify need for its audio content to accelerate advertiser demand and interest?

好的。里奇·格林菲爾德提出了另一個關於體育的問題。我們已經看到亞馬遜和 Netflix 進軍體育領域，以建立各自的廣告業務。 Spotify 是否需要其音訊內容來加速廣告商的需求和興趣？

I'll take this one. I think, overall, we know what we need to do in advertising. And the primary story in advertising is about meeting the marketeers where they want to be met. And that is in the programmatic marketplace and enabling them to more easily buy across Spotify the network. So I think that's the bigger story.

我要這個。我認為，總的來說，我們知道我們在廣告方面需要做什麼。廣告中的主要故事是在行銷人員想要的地方與他們會面。這就是程序化市場，使他們能夠更輕鬆地透過 Spotify 網路進行購買。所以我認為這是更大的故事。

Now when it comes to sports, in particular, the truth is we're already playing a pretty big role. So just look at something like The Ringer. The Ringer is doing phenomenal for us on the podcasting side. And I know many of you are listeners already to Bill Simmons and all of his podcasts. And so we see that as a great driver for us with advertisers and with consumers as well so we're very excited about that.

現在，特別是在體育方面，事實是我們已經發揮了相當大的作用。所以只要看看像《The Ringer》這樣的東西就可以了。 Ringer 在播客方面為我們做出了非凡的貢獻。我知道你們中的許多人已經是比爾·西蒙斯和他所有播客的聽眾。因此，我們認為這對我們與廣告商和消費者來說都是一個巨大的推動力，因此我們對此感到非常興奮。

Okay. Our next question is coming from Deepak on AI. Given all the innovation on the product front with AI, video, et cetera, over the last six months, can you give us some color on how these enhancements are benefiting metrics such as engagement and retention?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自迪帕克關於人工智慧的問題。鑑於過去六個月中人工智慧、影片等產品的所有創新，您能否向我們介紹這些增強功能如何使參與度和保留率等指標受益？

Yeah. Overall, Spotify keeps bringing up engagement and keep bringing down churn. That is the story we've been on. And whenever someone thinks we've reached a ceiling, it turns out that we're finding more ways to drive up the engagement and driving down the churn. And I think this, again, showcases that we keep adding more and more value to the platform across the board.

是的。整體而言，Spotify 不斷提高參與度並持續降低客戶流失率。這就是我們一直在講的故事。每當有人認為我們已經達到上限時，事實證明我們正在尋找更多方法來提高參與度並降低客戶流失率。我認為這再次表明我們不斷為平台增加越來越多的價值。

And AI is one of those ways. Video is obviously another one. Podcasting is a third. Audiobooks is the fourth. What we're doing with courses in the UK being a fifth, there's so many ways that we're both adding lots of new ways that people can engage with Spotify but also small incremental improvements that are driving great results.

人工智慧就是其中之一。影片顯然是另一回事。播客排在第三位。有聲書是第四個。我們在英國開設的課程佔第五位，我們透過多種方式增加了人們與 Spotify 互動的新方式，同時也進行了一些小的漸進式改進，從而帶來了巨大的成果。

But we are very excited about driving our usage of Spotify up over the next coming years. I mentioned that when we spoke about AI, too, but I really feel like this is a huge unlocking technology that can enable really transformational new ways where people want to soundtrack their lives in even more ways than they've done in the past.

但我們對在未來幾年提高 Spotify 的使用率感到非常興奮。我也提到過，當我們談論人工智慧時，但我真的覺得這是一項巨大的解鎖技術，它可以實現真正變革性的新方式，人們希望以比過去更多的方式為自己的生活配樂。

Okay. Another question from Benjamin Black this time on MAU. You changed your marketing strategy and now we're seeing MAU net additions revert to prior levels. If you dig in a little bit more into what you did, how sustainable is this level of MAU growth? And should we expect a reversion back to the 70 million to 80 million per year net adds you've pointed to in the past?

好的。本傑明布萊克 (Benjamin Black) 這次在 MAU 上提出了另一個問題。您更改了行銷策略，現在我們看到每月活躍用戶淨增量恢復到先前的水平。如果您更深入地研究您所做的事情，您會發現這種月活躍用戶成長水平的可持續性如何？我們是否應該期待回到您過去指出的每年 7000 萬至 8000 萬的淨增長？

I think it's early days, but I do believe we turned a corner and are back to growth again on the MAU side. And I'm happy about that because I wasn't happy about us missing the prior forecast. It feels like we've got a good grip of it now. Now as it relates to what did we do to make that happen. The reality is it's a bunch of different things.

我認為現在還為時過早，但我確實相信我們已經渡過難關，並且每月活躍用戶數方面再次恢復增長。我對此感到高興，因為我對我們錯過之前的預測並不滿意。感覺我們現在已經很好地掌握了它。現在，這關係到我們為實現這一目標做了什麼。現實是它是一堆不同的東西。

But the chief among them is really product improvements, so lots of small tweaks that have been driving good results. Things in the past that probably weren't smart, we've reversed. We've added new things as well. All that's created the backdrop of stronger engagement, which then translates to more MAU. Then as you mentioned, on the marketing side, we have improved there, too.

但其中最主要的是產品的改進，因此大量的小調整帶來了良好的結果。過去可能不明智的事情，我們已經扭轉了。我們還添加了新的東西。所有這些都創造了更強的參與度，進而轉化為更多的每月活躍用戶。正如您所提到的，在行銷方面，我們也有所改進。

So we have spent a little bit more on marketing. Now it's important to add why I didn't do that prior. Well, we didn't do that because we weren't seeing efficiency. So as we're seeing more efficiency, i.e., the CAC to LTV ratio that Christian spoke about, then we are happy to spend. Why wouldn't we be?

所以我們在行銷上花了更多的錢。現在重要的是要補充為什麼我之前沒有這樣做。好吧，我們沒有這樣做，因為我們沒有看到效率。因此，當我們看到效率更高時，也就是 Christian 談到的 CAC 與 LTV 比率，我們很樂意花錢。我們為什麼不呢？

So the team has been working on a bunch of those things. And if we see great opportunities with great CAC-to-LTV ratios, we will pursue them. If nothing else, the core will be about improving engagement on the product, improving efficiency on marketing.

所以團隊一直在做很多這樣的事情。如果我們看到 CAC 與 LTV 比率較高的巨大機會，我們就會抓住它們。如果不出意外的話，核心就是提高產品的參與度，提升行銷效率。

Okay. Next question is from Rich Greenfield on video podcasting. Daniel, if you put your creator hat on, well, Spotify offers an ever larger platform for video podcasting. It's still dwarfed by the scale, reach, and engagement of YouTube. We presume that's why creators like Joe Rogan want to be on YouTube and not just Spotify. How do you change that over time?

好的。下一個問題來自 Rich Greenfield 關於視訊播客的問題。丹尼爾，如果你戴上你的創作者帽子，那麼 Spotify 為視訊播客提供了一個更大的平台。與 YouTube 的規模、覆蓋範圍和參與度相比，它仍然相形見絀。我們推測這就是 Joe Rogan 等創作者想要進入 YouTube 而不僅僅是 Spotify 的原因。隨著時間的推移，你如何改變這一點？

Well, I mean, if you look at the history of the company, we've always been up against much bigger companies and platforms. And I feel like this is the story of Spotify. And we don't really -- as we're entering spaces, we don't think too much about competition as the honest answer. What we do think about is what are the needs of the consumer? What are the needs of creators?

嗯，我的意思是，如果你看看公司的歷史，我們總是必須面對更大的公司和平台。我覺得這就是 Spotify 的故事。當我們進入這個領域時，我們並沒有過多地考慮競爭作為誠實的答案。我們真正思考的是消費者的需求是什麼？創作者的需求是什麼？

We have an upcoming video event tomorrow so I'm plugging that to all of you. I hope you'll follow along in what I'm sure people will live-tweet and all that from the event where you can see really our philosophy at play, where we are solving real creator needs, where we're solving real consumer needs that we're seeing.

我們明天即將舉行視訊活動，所以我向大家通報。我希望你們能關注我相信人們會在推特上直播的內容，以及活動中的所有內容，在這裡你們可以真正看到我們的理念，我們正在解決真正的創作者需求，我們正在解決真正的消費者需求我們所看到的。

And it's really how we're pursuing this. I think that there's not so much people make it out to be the sort of the winner-takes-all dynamic in that there's only one player that can solve all of it. What we're actually seeing is a creator wants to be multi-home.

這確實是我們追求這目標的方式。我認為沒有多少人會認為這是贏家通吃的動態，因為只有一個玩家可以解決所有問題。我們實際上看到的是創作者想要擁有多個住宅。

They want to be in more platforms. That's certainly what we learned in podcasting and that's what we're leaning into. I think what we're seeing now is we have lots of creators that are on Spotify but only with parts of their content, and they want to enable more ways for them to add that more content to Spotify. There are new creators that have needs which we aren't yet fulfilling, but hopefully, tomorrow is a great step in that direction.

他們希望進入更多平台。這當然是我們在播客中學到的，也是我們正在研究的。我認為我們現在看到的是，我們有很多創作者在 Spotify 上，但只擁有他們的部分內容，他們希望有更多的方式讓他們為 Spotify 添加更多內容。有些新的創作者有我們尚未滿足的需求，但希望明天是朝這個方向邁出的一大步。

Okay. Our next question is from Steven Cahall on the Ad-Supported tier. Would you consider a modest subscription fee on Ad-Supported users in mature markets? This appears to be attractive to the labels, and it may support your commentary about scaling profitably in Ad-Supported, especially in a soft CPM environment.

好的。我們的下一個問題來自 Steven Cahall 關於廣告支援層的問題。您是否會考慮向成熟市場中的廣告支援用戶收取適度的訂閱費用？這似乎對唱片公司很有吸引力，並且可能支持您關於在廣告支援中實現盈利擴展的評論，尤其是在軟 CPM 環境中。

I can't really comment on specifics about preannouncing what we may or may not do, but I can talk about the sort of general views. We're always open to considering how we evolve our opportunity. And as I mentioned before, we're always thinking about what does creator needs and what does consumers want, and we're really trying to find win-wins between the two.

我無法真正評論有關預先宣布我們可能做什麼或不做什麼的具體細節，但我可以談論一般觀點。我們始終願意考慮如何發展我們的機會。正如我之前提到的，我們一直在思考創作者需要什麼，消費者想要什麼，我們真的在努力尋找兩者之間的雙贏。

One of those challenges and specifically why music is not analogous to video, however, that's good for investors to be aware of, in music specifically, because of the regulatory rights environment, you are, with radio and other things, there's a lot of ad-supported music available out there in the marketplace. This is not something that's likely going to change.

這些挑戰之一，特別是為什麼音樂與視頻不同，這對投資者來說是有好處的，特別是在音樂領域，由於監管權利環境，廣播和其他東西，有很多廣告- 市場上有支持的音樂。這不太可能改變。

And so as you think about that, there is a very, very different industry dynamic in music as compared to, say, something like video where we've obviously followed what's happening with the Ad-Supported tiers with fees involved, et cetera.

因此，當你想到這一點時，與視頻之類的行業相比，音樂領域存在著非常非常不同的行業動態，在視頻行業中，我們顯然一直在關注涉及費用的廣告支持層的情況，等等。

So we're always open. We're always discussing with our partners and with consumers' needs, thinking about how do we create the best possible proposition. But it is a very different environment than in video. So I don't think we can just overlay what happened in video and say, hey, let's do the same thing in music. Because it's a very, very different regulatory environment and very different industry environment.

所以我們總是開放的。我們始終與合作夥伴和消費者的需求進行討論，思考如何創造最佳的方案。但這是一個與影片中非常不同的環境。所以我不認為我們可以只覆蓋影片中發生的事情然後說，嘿，讓我們在音樂中做同樣的事情。因為這是一個非常非常不同的監管環境和非常不同的產業環境。

Okay. We've got another question from Jessica Reif Ehrlich on revenue drivers. At your 2022 Investor Day, you provided a revenue goal of 20% annual growth. Are you comfortable that you can achieve this? And can you help us think through the various levers to reach this target?

好的。傑西卡·雷夫·埃利希 (Jessica Reif Ehrlich) 向我們提出了另一個關於收入驅動因素的問題。在 2022 年投資者日，您提出了每年增長 20% 的收入目標。您對實現這一目標感到滿意嗎？您能否幫助我們思考實現這目標的各種手段？

Yeah. So we have very high goals in this company, and we will continue to set very high goals across the board. And we're always going to push for more innovation and constantly push forward what's next. And we want to be one of these very few iconic companies that defy expectations. And that's certainly what I'm focused on every day of my task here.

是的。因此，我們在這家公司有非常高的目標，我們將繼續全面設定非常高的目標。我們將始終推動更多創新，並不斷推動下一步發展。我們希望成為極少數超出預期的標誌性公司之一。這當然是我每天工作的重點。

Now what are the drivers to get 20% annual growth? Well, it's probably a combination of both super strong top line user growth, and then on top of that, very strong monetization. And so in both of these buckets, when you really think about it, we're just scratching the surface of all the potential we have in reaching more consumers across the world.

那麼，實現 20% 年成長率的驅動力是什麼？嗯，這可能是超強勁的營收用戶成長和非常強勁的貨幣化的結合。因此，在這兩個方面，當你真正思考這一點時，我們只是觸及了接觸世界各地更多消費者的所有潛力的表面。

So as you think about the addressable universe, there's definitely more than 3 billion people around the world that cares about music. We're only at 640 million so far so there's plenty of growth left to be had.

因此，當您考慮可尋址宇宙時，全世界肯定有超過 30 億人關心音樂。到目前為止，我們的用戶數量只有 6.4 億，因此還有很大的成長空間。

Now obviously, if you stretch out 20% across the decades on, it will be very tough because we've run out of people. So eventually, that growth, depending on what sort of time period you're looking at, will be hard to accomplish.

顯然，如果你在幾十年後的時間裡延長 20%，這將是非常困難的，因為我們已經沒有人了。因此，最終，這種成長將很難實現，這取決於你所關注的時間段。

On the revenue side, however, you saw us this year to close some of the gap between the value-to-price ratio. We're now back to adding more value there, and we will eventually close the price gap on that, too. I feel very good about our ability to monetize.

然而，在收入方面，您看到我們今年縮小了價值與價格比之間的一些差距。我們現在又開始在那裡增加更多的價值，我們最終也將縮小這方面的價格差距。我對我們的獲利能力感到非常滿意。

And we have to put things in perspective, too. A few years back, it was a big question around whether Spotify could even increase prices at all. I think we've proven now that we have that ability to do so. We have the ability to lead on price, and we have the ability to do so profitably. There's nothing that makes me stop and think that we cannot do this going forward.

我們也必須正確看待事物。幾年前，Spotify 能否提高價格還是一個大問題。我認為我們現在已經證明我們有能力做到這一點。我們有能力在價格上處於領先地位，並且我們有能力實現盈利。沒有什麼能讓我停下來並認為我們不能繼續這樣做。

But we certainly, to get to 20% growth, I mean, both advertising to grow faster than what is going now and our subscription business to have more SKUs to help with that sort of growth. So those are sort of the main ingredients as you think about this.

但我們當然要實現 20% 的成長，我的意思是，廣告的成長速度比現在更快，我們的訂閱業務也需要有更多的 SKU 來幫助實現這種成長。當你思考這個問題時，這些是主要成分。

Okay. Our next question is going to come from Kannan Venkateshwar on distribution opportunities. With record labels looking on superfan apps, could you talk about Spotify's potential role as a distributor of other applications?

好的。我們的下一個問題將來自 Kannan Venkateshwar 關於分銷機會的問題。隨著唱片公司開始關注超級粉絲應用程序，您能否談談 Spotify 作為其他應用程式分銷商的潛在角色？

Well, we really don't have anything to announce at this moment. But again, the goal of the company, as I've said now a few times, is to look at the intersection of consumer needs and creator needs. And we're always open to discussing with the industry how we can improve our proposition. And if there are superfan apps that we think has great consumer appeal, we would be more than happy to look at ways to contribute to that growth.

好吧，我們目前確實沒有什麼要宣布的。但同樣，正如我多次說過的那樣，公司的目標是專注於消費者需求和創作者需求的交集。我們始終願意與業界討論如何改善我們的主張。如果我們認為有一些超級粉絲應用程式對消費者俱有巨大的吸引力，我們將非常樂意尋找促進這種成長的方法。

All right. Our next question is going to come from Doug Anmuth again on advertising. FX-neutral ad revenue growth of 7% is well below digital ad peers. Can you talk about the product road map here and diversifying the advertiser base away from brand while leveraging demand-side platforms and other adtech partners to accelerate growth?

好的。我們的下一個問題將再次來自道格·安姆斯（Doug Anmuth），有關廣告的問題。匯率中立的廣告收入成長率為 7%，遠低於數位廣告同業。您能否談談這裡的產品路線圖，以及將廣告客戶群遠離品牌的多元化，同時利用需求方平台和其他廣告技術合作夥伴來加速成長？

That's going back a little bit what I talked about before. So actually, the purpose with the changes we are doing and with the Spotify Ad Exchange is to actually move into more performance-based ad services instead of brand and that will then take us there. So that's the short answer and I'll keep it at that.

這又有點回溯到我之前談到的內容了。所以實際上，我們正​​在做的改變以及 Spotify Ad Exchange 的目的是真正轉向更多基於效果的廣告服務而不是品牌，然後這將帶我們到那裡。這就是簡短的答案，我將保留這一點。

All right. We've got a question now from Maria Ripps on Marketplace. Is there any quantitative color you can provide around Marketplace growth so far this year? Are there any new products or features that you've recently introduced or are working on that could be notable growth contributors in 2025 and beyond?

好的。現在，我們在 Marketplace 上收到了 Maria Ripps 提出的問題。今年到目前為止，您可以提供有關市場成長的任何定量數據嗎？您最近推出或正在開發的新產品或功能是否有可能在 2025 年及以後帶來顯著的成長貢獻？

Yeah. Marketplace, I'm very pleased with what we're seeing with Marketplace. We are -- there are more and more artists and label teams that are using Marketplace across the board that's driving some of that growth.

是的。 Marketplace，我對 Marketplace 所看到的結果非常滿意。我們 - 越來越多的藝術家和唱片公司團隊正在全面使用 Marketplace，這在一定程度上推動了成長。

And as it comes to product features, one of the big things is just giving more control back to those marketing teams in how this shows up, when it works, when they have their campaigns ready, how they do it, and more granularity and more integration with the tools and workflows that label teams and artist's teams are already using today. Those are some of the sort of near-term drivers.

就產品功能而言，最重要的事情之一就是給行銷團隊更多的控制權，讓他們知道如何顯示、何時發揮作用、何時準備好行銷活動、如何進行以及更多的粒度等。標籤團隊和藝術家團隊目前已經使用的工具和工作流程整合。這些是一些近期驅動因素。

The longer-term drivers is I still think we have a lot to do on the merchandising front. And on the merchandising front, what I'm simply referring to is how the music releases and Marketplace products show up to users.

長期驅動因素是我仍然認為我們在銷售方面還有很多工作要做。在行銷方面，我只是指音樂發行和市場產品如何向用戶展示。

What we do see as one example, as we've been adding music videos, when there's music videos on a product, you see significant uptake in stream share. So we're just giving more and more tools and more and more controls to label teams and artist's teams on how to use Marketplace.

我們所看到的一個例子是，隨著我們一直在添加音樂視頻，當產品上有音樂視頻時，您會看到串流媒體份額的顯著增長。因此，我們只是提供越來越多的工具和越來越多的控制來標記團隊和藝術家團隊如何使用 Marketplace。

Okay. We've got another question from Jessica Reif Ehrlich on music royalties. There's been speculation that the record labels would like to move to a per subscriber pricing model similar to cable TV networks. From a Spotify perspective, what are the pros and cons from moving from variable to fixed pricing?

好的。傑西卡·雷夫·埃利希 (Jessica Reif Ehrlich) 向我們提出了另一個關於音樂版稅的問題。有人猜測唱片公司希望轉向類似有線電視網的按訂戶定價模式。從 Spotify 的角度來看，從可變定價轉向固定定價有何優缺點？

Yeah, I'm not sure I can comment so much on that speculation, but to say that we have a very healthy relationship with our partners. And we're constantly discussing what the future of the model will be and how this can provide growth for the music ecosystem.

是的，我不確定我是否可以對這種猜測發表太多評論，但可以說我們與合作夥伴有著非常健康的關係。我們不斷討論該模式的未來是什麼，以及它如何為音樂生態系統提供成長。

Okay. We've got a question now from Mark Mahaney on new features. How impactful have music videos and AI DJ features and products been to user engagement and satisfaction?

好的。我們現在收到 Mark Mahaney 關於新功能的問題。音樂影片和 AI DJ 功能和產品對用戶參與度和滿意度有多大影響？

We are seeing -- one of the more interesting things is that as you think about something like Spotify and the size of Spotify, over 640 million users, the reality is there are very few things that move things on the aggregate. And there are more things that may move numbers on small individual cohorts. AI DJ and music videos, however, have been exceptions to that where it truly is moving averages.

我們看到，更有趣的事情之一是，當你想到像 Spotify 這樣的東西以及 Spotify 的規模（超過 6.4 億用戶）時，現實是很少有東西能夠推動整體發展。還有更多的事情可能會改變小群體的人數。然而，人工智慧 DJ 和音樂錄影帶卻是真正的移動平均線的例外。

And we see that people who are using music videos have significantly higher engagement and retention than ones that don't, similar to how AI DJ is working, too. AI DJ, we're seeing amazing results not just on quantitative metrics but also on qualitative metrics, about Spotify, what they say they love about Spotify.

我們發現，使用音樂影片的人比不使用音樂影片的人有更高的參與度和保留率，這與 AI DJ 的工作方式類似。 AI DJ，我們不僅在定量指標上看到了驚人的結果，而且在定性指標上也看到了驚人的結果，關於 Spotify，他們說他們喜歡 Spotify。

Both music videos and AI DJ are showing up in pretty great ways. And I think this showcases the strength of Spotify. We are at our best when we can bring great innovation to our consumers.

音樂錄影帶和 AI DJ 都以非常出色的方式出現。我認為這展示了 Spotify 的實力。當我們能夠為消費者帶來偉大的創新時，我們就處於最佳狀態。

All right. We've got time for a couple more questions. Next question is going to be from Michael Morris on AI objectives. Can you help frame any incremental investments for your longer-term AI growth objectives? You mentioned you'll be disciplined, but should we expect an additional period of net investment while you pursue new opportunities?

好的。我們還有時間再問幾個問題。下一個問題將來自邁克爾莫里斯（Michael Morris）關於人工智慧目標的問題。您能否協助制定增量投資以實現長期人工智慧成長目標？您提到您將受到紀律處分，但在您尋求新機會的同時，我們是否應該期待一段額外的淨投資期？

I think again, one of the hard things, I think, for the entire technology industry right now is it's very difficult for all of us to try to predict exactly what that investment pattern will look like because there's so much movement in the underlying technology stack and what it means. I think what I think I can say to make investors feel calm about this is that we're -- this is not reckless spending and we're now back to 2021, but we're going to be highly disciplined in what we do. We also, unlike other companies, this is not CapEx-intensive for us. This is purely based on usage when we find it. And obviously, usage is correlated to higher engagement and higher retention, which then brings value.

我再次想到，我認為，對於整個科技產業來說，目前最困難的事情之一是我們所有人都很難嘗試準確預測投資模式會是什麼樣子，因為底層技術堆疊發生了太多變化以及它的含義。我想我可以說的是，為了讓投資者對此感到平靜，我們——這不是魯莽的支出，我們現在已經回到了 2021 年，但我們將在我們的工作中嚴格遵守紀律。與其他公司不同，我們的資本支出並不密集。這純粹基於我們找到它時的使用情況。顯然，使用率與更高的參與度和更高的保留率有關，從而帶來價值。

So that's how we should be thinking about it. But we will be disciplined. But if we see something that we think will drive meaningful engagement or retention uplift, it is in the best interest of Spotify, obviously, to pursue that.

所以這就是我們應該如何思考的。但我們會遵守紀律。但如果我們看到一些我們認為能夠推動有意義的參與度或保留率提升的東西，那麼顯然，追求這一目標符合 Spotify 的最佳利益。

And if that means that are shorter-form trade-offs, where numbers on a margin perspective, will go down for a little bit of a while, we're still always happy to make that trade-off. Now that said, of course, we are going to be very disciplined in how we pursue it.

如果這意味著短期的權衡，即從利潤角度來看，數字會下降一段時間，那麼我們仍然很樂意做出這種權衡。當然，話雖如此，我們在追求目標的方式上會非常自律。

Okay. We got another question from Kannan Venkateshwar on podcasting subscriptions. If podcasters like The New York Times use a paywall on Spotify to improve their yield, is there an opportunity for Spotify to share in that upside?

好的。我們從 Kannan Venkateshwar 那裡收到了另一個關於播客訂閱的問題。如果《紐約時報》等播客使用 Spotify 的付費專區來提高收益，那麼 Spotify 是否有機會分享這項優勢？

There's, of course, constraints in how the app stores work and our ability to work with upsells overall. As you guys know, this is a very near and dear topic for me personally that we are fighting because we see the need for creators that they want to provide more opportunities à la carte and we would love for that to happen.

當然，應用程式商店的運作方式以及我們整體加售的能力都受到限制。正如你們所知，這對我個人來說是一個非常親密的話題，我們正在努力解決這個問題，因為我們看到了創作者的需要，他們希望提供更多的點菜機會，我們希望這種情況能夠發生。

So there's some restrictions in how we're able to do so, given how app stores exist. But I think in a perfect world, what we are seeing is partners of ours are coming and they want to offer more products through Spotify. I would love for us to be incentivized in doing so.

因此，鑑於應用程式商店的存在方式，我們的實現方式存在一些限制。但我認為在一個完美的世界中，我們看到的是我們的合作夥伴正在到來，他們希望透過 Spotify 提供更多產品。我希望我們能夠受到激勵這樣做。

The question is more of a technical one and sort of app stores' perspective one, can we even do it? But in theory, we could, and I think our partners would like for us to help drive businesses. And we obviously would love to do so, too. But I think in the near term, there are challenges on app stores and our ability to do so.

問題更多的是技術問題和應用商店的角度問題，我們能做到嗎？但從理論上講，我們可以，而且我認為我們的合作夥伴希望我們幫助推動業務發展。我們顯然也很樂意這麼做。但我認為，短期內，應用程式商店和我們的能力都面臨挑戰。

All right. And our final question today is going to come from Barton Crockett on the competitive landscape. How do you believe Spotify's growth currently compares to major rivals such as Apple Music?

好的。今天我們的最後一個問題將來自 Barton Crockett 關於競爭格局的問題。您認為 Spotify 目前的成長與 Apple Music 等主要競爭對手相比如何？

Yeah. We feel really good about our growth rates relative to the peer set in music. And I think -- yeah, I'm just going to leave it at that. We feel really good about it.

是的。相對於音樂領域的同行，我們對自己的成長率感到非常滿意。我想——是的，我就這樣吧。我們對此感覺非常好。

Okay. Well, that concludes our question-and-answer session, and I'll turn the floor back over to Daniel for some closing remarks.

好的。好了，我們的問答環節就到此結束，我將把發言權交還給丹尼爾，讓他發表一些結束語。

All right. Thanks, Bryan. So I think from all my remarks today and my commentary, if we want to conclude, I would just say, we've never been in a stronger position, thanks to what's really been an outstanding execution by the Spotify team. And I'm incredibly proud of the way we've delivered and the progress we've made. We are where we set out to be, if not a little bit further, and on a steady path toward achieving our long-term goals.

好的。謝謝，布萊恩。因此，我認為從我今天的所有言論和評論來看，如果我們想得出結論，我只想說，我們從未處於更有利的地位，這要歸功於 Spotify 團隊真正出色的執行力。我對我們的交付方式和取得的進展感到無比自豪。我們已經達到了我們設定的目標，甚至更進一步，並且正在穩步實現我們的長期目標。

And the key here is really the relentless pursuit of innovation and commitment to growth that I think sets us up to deliver the most valuable user experience in the industry while reinforcing the core strength that makes Spotify unique. And I am incredibly excited about what lies ahead for us. And obviously, I hope you guys will join us and check out the news on our video event tomorrow, too. So thanks for joining us.

這裡的關鍵實際上是對創新的不懈追求和對成長的承諾，我認為這使我們能夠提供業界最有價值的用戶體驗，同時增強使 Spotify 獨一無二的核心優勢。我對我們的未來感到非常興奮。顯然，我希望你們也能加入我們並查看我們明天視訊活動的新聞。感謝您加入我們。

Okay. That concludes today's call. A replay will be available on our Investor Relations website and also on the Spotify app under Spotify Earnings Call Replays. Thanks again, everyone.

好的。今天的電話會議到此結束。重播將在我們的投資者關係網站以及 Spotify 應用程式上的 Spotify 收益電話會議重播中提供。再次感謝大家。