Spotify Technology SA (SPOT) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to Spotify's Fourth Quarter 2023 Earnings Call and Webcast. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded.

早安，歡迎參加 Spotify 2023 年第四季財報電話會議和網路廣播。 （操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次電話會議正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to Bryan Goldberg, Head of Investor Relations. Thank you. Please go ahead.

我現在想將電話轉給投資者關係主管 Bryan Goldberg。謝謝。請繼續。

All right. Thanks, operator, and welcome to Spotify's Fourth Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. Joining us today will be Daniel Ek, our CEO; Paul Vogel, our CFO; and Ben Kung, our VP of Financial Planning and Analysis, who has been assisting with the transition while we search for our new CFO. We'll start with opening comments from Daniel and Paul. And afterwards, we'll be happy to answer your questions. Questions can be submitted by going to slido.com, s-l-i-d-o.com and using the code #SpotifyEarningsQ423. Analysts can ask questions directly into Slido, and all participants can then vote on the questions they find the most relevant.

好的。感謝營運商，歡迎參加 Spotify 2023 年第四季財報電話會議。今天加入我們的是我們的執行長 Daniel Ek；保羅‧沃格爾，我們的財務長；我們的財務規劃和分析副總裁 Ben Kung 在我們尋找新的財務長期間一直協助我們進行過渡。我們將從丹尼爾和保羅的開場評論開始。之後，我們將很樂意回答您的問題。可以造訪 slido.com、s-l-i-d-o.com 並使用代碼 #SpotifyEarningsQ423 提交問題。分析師可以直接向 Slido 提問，然後所有參與者都可以對他們認為最相關的問題進行投票。

If for some reason, you don't have access to Slido, you can e-mail Investor Relations at ir@spotify.com, and we'll add in your question.

如果您因某種原因無法造訪 Slido，您可以向投資者關係部發送電子郵件至 ir@spotify.com，我們將添加您的問題。

Before we begin, let me quickly cover the safe harbor. During this call, we'll be making certain forward-looking statements, including projections or estimates about the future performance of the company. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results could materially differ because of factors discussed on today's call, in our shareholder deck and in filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

在我們開始之前，讓我快速介紹一下安全港。在這次電話會議中，我們將做出某些前瞻性陳述，包括對公司未來表現的預測或估計。這些陳述基於當前的預期和假設，存在風險和不確定性。由於今天的電話會議、我們的股東資料以及向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中討論的因素，實際結果可能會存在重大差異。

During this call, we'll also refer to certain non-IFRS financial measures. Reconciliations between our IFRS and non-IFRS financial measures can be found in our shareholder deck, in the financial section of our Investor Relations website and also furnished today on Form 6-K.

在本次電話會議中，我們也將提及某些非 IFRS 財務指標。我們的 IFRS 和非 IFRS 財務指標之間的調節可以在我們的股東資料、投資者關係網站的財務部分找到，並且今天也在表格 6-K 中提供。

And with that, I'll turn it over to Daniel.

有了這個，我會把它交給丹尼爾。

All right. Thanks, Bryan, and hey, everyone, and thanks for joining us. I hope you've had the opportunity to review our shareholder deck to get a sense of what an incredible year 2023 was for Spotify.

好的。謝謝布萊恩，嘿，大家，謝謝您加入我們。我希望您有機會回顧我們的股東資料，並了解 2023 年對 Spotify 來說是多麼不可思議的一年。

Throughout the year, we notched some really significant milestones and set numerous records. This included 113 million net adds on the MAU side and premium net adds of 31 million, both the biggest full year additions in our history. And our annual Wrapped experience also toppled previous levels of engagement surpassing 2022 numbers in just the first 31 hours of the campaign. We accomplished all of this by significantly exceeding our own expectations when we entered the year and against the backdrop of global turmoil and uncertainty and Q4 was a continuation of the story.

在這一年裡，我們取得了一些非常重要的里程碑，並創造了無數紀錄。其中，每月活躍用戶數淨增加數為 1.13 億，付費用戶淨增加數為 3,100 萬，均為我們史上最大的全年新增數。我們的年度 Wrapped 體驗也超越了先前的參與度水平，在活動的前 31 小時內超過了 2022 年的數字。在全球動盪和不確定的背景下，我們在進入這一年時大大超出了自己的預期，從而實現了所有這一切，第四季度是這個故事的延續。

And while I'm pleased with the level of growth we saw in 2023, perhaps what is even more gratifying is that it also marked a very different year for Spotify, a true evolution in how we operate our company. A year where we started to prove that we're not just a company that has an amazing product, but one that also is building a great business. And there's no question that we had to make some difficult decisions to put us on track to achieve our goal of being a consistently profitable company but by taking these steps, I'm super confident in where we're heading.

雖然我對 2023 年的成長水準感到滿意，但也許更令人高興的是，這也標誌著 Spotify 非常不同的一年，這是我們公司運作方式的真正演變。這一年我們開始證明我們不僅是一家擁有令人驚嘆的產品的公司，也是一家正在打造偉大業務的公司。毫無疑問，我們必須做出一些艱難的決定，才能實現成為一家持續獲利的公司的目標，但透過採取這些步驟，我對我們的前進方向非常有信心。

So looking to 2024, you should expect a continuation of what you saw in 2023, strong product development, which leads to strong growth, but with an increased focus on monetization and efficiency, which in turn drives profitability.

因此，展望 2024 年，您應該預期會延續 2023 年的情況，強勁的產品開發將帶來強勁成長，但會更加重視貨幣化和效率，從而推動獲利能力。

And I know some of you may start to wonder if we're sacrificing growth for profitability. Long term, we believe that the real value of Spotify is in solving problems at the intersection between creators and consumers . With scale, there will be even more opportunities to do so. Therefore, growth is still the most important thing we can deliver. However, equally true is that our hurdle rate for investment has increased.

我知道你們中的一些人可能會開始懷疑我們是否正在為了獲利而犧牲成長。從長遠來看，我們認為 Spotify 的真正價值在於解決創作者和消費者之間的問題。隨著規模的擴大，將會有更多的機會這樣做。因此，成長仍然是我們能夠實現的最重要的事情。然而，同樣真實的是，我們的投資門檻有所提高。

So what gifts? Well, as I've shared before, we have various levers to pull at different times to drive revenue growth. These include growing our users, creating new businesses with new revenue streams and increasing revenue per user through price increases.

那麼送什麼禮物呢？嗯，正如我之前分享的那樣，我們可以在不同的時間使用各種槓桿來推動收入成長。其中包括增加我們的用戶、創建具有新收入來源的新業務以及透過提價增加每用戶收入。

In 2023, we leveraged all three throughout the year at various times, but this won't always be the case, you should expect to see a shift back and forth among prioritizing these three key elements based on a variety of considerations. And looking ahead, I believe 2024 is going to be another year of solid progress led by an acceleration of revenue growth.

2023 年，我們在全年的不同時間利用了這三個要素，但情況並非總是如此，您應該會看到基於各種考慮因素在這三個關鍵要素的優先級之間來回轉變。展望未來，我相信 2024 年將是在收入加速成長的帶動下又取得紮實進展的一年。

That said, I think it is important to remind investors that we constantly modulate between what we spend most of our time focusing on. In some years, it's focusing on growing the top of the funnel. And in some years, it's about driving monetization of those users. The last few years has been extraordinary from the top of the funnel perspective. Our aim is to continue this trend, but our focus in 2024 is more on how we monetize that growth.

也就是說，我認為重要的是要提醒投資者，我們不斷地在我們花費大部分時間關注的事情之間進行調整。在某些年份，它專注於發展漏斗頂部。在某些年份，它的目的是推動這些用戶的貨幣化。從漏斗頂部的角度來看，過去幾年是非凡的。我們的目標是延續這一趨勢，但 2024 年我們的重點更多是如何將這種成長貨幣化。

I also wanted to provide a quick update on our audio books business, which is performing well, and we are very excited about its potential. It's still early days, but the feedback from listeners and from the industry is extremely encouraging. Data shows that our entry into this market has dramatically accelerated its overall growth. In Q4, we became the #2 provider of audio books behind Audible, which is notable given how entrenched the legacy players are.

我還想快速介紹一下我們的有聲書業務的最新情況，該業務表現良好，我們對其潛力感到非常興奮。雖然現在還處於早期階段，但聽眾和業界的回饋非常令人鼓舞。數據顯示，我們進入這個市場大大加速了其整體成長。在第四季度，我們成為僅次於 Audible 的第二大有聲書提供商，考慮到傳統廠商的根深蒂固，這一點值得注意。

And this is exactly what we set out to do: grow the pie for the publishing industry and expand the interest in audio books to an entirely new set of listeners. More to come as this takes hold and we roll it out through additional markets.

這正是我們要做的：為出版業做大蛋糕，並將有聲書的興趣擴展到全新的聽眾。隨著這種情況的發生，我們也會將其推廣到其他市場。

Before I turn it over to Paul to provide more details on the numbers, I also wanted to take this opportunity with all of you on the line to thank him and wish him well. Although Paul is sticking around for a couple more months, this will be his last earnings call. He's been a great partner and helped to solidify the position of the strength that we sit in today. So thank you, Paul, for these years.

在我將其交給保羅提供更多有關數字的詳細資訊之前，我也想藉此機會向大家表示感謝並祝他一切順利。儘管保羅還要再堅持幾個月，但這將是他最後一次財報電話會議。他是一位出色的合作夥伴，幫助鞏固了我們今天的實力地位。所以謝謝你，保羅，這些年來。

I also wanted to give you a quick update on our CFO search. We are well underway, and I'm happy with the caliber of the candidates that I'm seeing. As we enter this next phase of focusing on having both a great product and building a great business, I'm confident we will find the right person, someone who is passionate about driving the levels of efficiency and resourcefulness that are critical to our long-term success.

我還想向您簡要介紹一下我們財務長搜尋的最新情況。我們進展順利，我對我所看到的候選人的能力感到滿意。當我們進入專注於擁有出色產品和建立出色業務的下一階段時，我相信我們會找到合適的人選，他熱衷於提高效率和足智多謀的水平，這對我們的長期發展至關重要。術語成功。

Paul, thanks again, and over to you.

保羅，再次感謝你。

Great. Thanks, Daniel, and thanks, everyone, for joining us. I'd like to add a bit more color on the quarter and then touch upon the broader performance of the business and our outlook.

偉大的。謝謝丹尼爾，也謝謝大家加入我們。我想為該季度增添更多色彩，然後談談更廣泛的業務表現和我們的前景。

Q4 is a very strong quarter. MAU grew like 28 million to 602 million, and we added 10 million net subscribers finishing at 236 million. Both MAU and subscriber growth continued to be above our historical trend and outperformed forecast. Revenue grew 16% year-over-year to EUR 3.7 billion during the quarter. Excluding the effects of unfavorable currency movements, revenue grew 20% year-on-year, representing an acceleration of 300 basis points versus the prior quarter as a result due to the ongoing effects of the new subscription pricing.

第四季是一個非常強勁的季度。 MAU 成長了 2,800 萬，達到 6.02 億，淨訂閱用戶增加了 1,000 萬，最終達到 2.36 億。月活躍用戶數和用戶成長均持續高於我們的歷史趨勢並超越預期。本季營收年增 16% 至 37 億歐元。剔除不利匯率變動的影響，由於新訂閱定價的持續影響，營收年增 20%，較上一季成長 300 個基點。

Turning to gross margin. Gross margin of 26.7% was above guidance by about 10 basis points due primarily to favorability in our podcast business. We reported an operating loss of EUR 75 million, which was better than guidance due mainly to lower-than-expected marketing spend and personnel and related costs.

轉向毛利率。 26.7% 的毛利率比指導值高出約 10 個基點，這主要是由於我們的播客業務受到青睞。我們報告的營運虧損為 7,500 萬歐元，優於預期，主要是由於行銷支出以及人員和相關成本低於預期。

As we previously disclosed, our operating loss was impacted by about EUR 143 million of charges related to the efficiency actions we announced in December. Excluding the onetime charges, we generated EUR 68 million of adjusted operating profit, which is more than double the third quarter as the business continued its early stage of inflection towards sustainable growth and profitability.

正如我們先前所揭露的，我們的營運虧損受到 12 月宣布的效率行動相關費用約 1.43 億歐元的影響。不包括一次性費用，我們實現了 6800 萬歐元的調整後營業利潤，是第三季度的兩倍多，因為該業務繼續處於可持續增長和盈利能力的早期階段。

Finally, Free cash flow was positive EUR 396 million in Q4. While some of the strength was timing related, we remain confident that we've entered a new chapter in terms of expanding the business, the business's cash generation potential.

最後，第四季自由現金流為正 3.96 億歐元。雖然一些優勢與時間相關，但我們仍然相信，我們在擴展業務、業務的現金產生潛力方面已經進入了新的篇章。

Looking ahead to the first quarter guidance, we are forecasting 618 million MAU, an increase of 16 million from Q4 and 230 million subscribers, an increase of 3 million over Q4. We're also forecasting a currency-neutral revenue growth rate of 20% plus year-on-year putting to EUR 3.6 billion in total revenue. We also anticipate a gross margin of 26.4% and an operating profit of EUR 180 million. While we no longer give full year guidance, we do expect healthy full year 2024 user growth that should be close to the average of the last few years, and we expect strong subscriber growth as well.

展望第一季指引，我們預計每月活躍用戶數將達到 6.18 億，比第四季增加 1,600 萬，訂閱用戶數將達到 2.3 億，比第四季增加 300 萬。我們也預測，剔除貨幣因素後，營收成長率將達到 20%，總營收將年增 36 億歐元。我們也預期毛利率為 26.4%，營業利益為 1.8 億歐元。雖然我們不再給出全年指導，但我們確實預計 2024 年全年用戶將實現健康成長，應接近過去幾年的平均水平，並且我們預計用戶成長也將強勁。

Gross margin and operating margin are both expected to improve throughout the year to deliver meaningful full year expansion with podcasting expected to deliver positive gross profit for the year. We also expect our free cash flow generation to meaningfully exceed what we generated in 2023.

毛利率和營業利潤率預計全年都會有所改善，從而實現有意義的全年擴張，播客預計將在今年實現正毛利潤。我們也預計我們的自由現金流量將大幅超過 2023 年的水平。

And finally, as Bryan mentioned, Ben Kung, who has been a trusted partner of (inaudible) Finance, is also on the call and we're joining us for Q&A. And additionally, I'd like to thank Daniel and all of my colleagues over the past 8 years for making my time at Spotify truly special.

最後，正如 Bryan 所提到的，Ben Kung，他一直是（聽不清楚）Finance 值得信賴的合作夥伴，也參加了電話會議，我們將加入我們進行問答。此外，我還要感謝過去 8 年中 Daniel 和我的所有同事，他們讓我在 Spotify 度過了一段非常特別的時光。

And with that, I'll hand things back to Bryan for Q&A.

這樣，我會將事情交還給布萊恩問答。

All right. Thanks, Paul. Again, if you've got any questions, please go to slido.com, #SpotifyEarningsQ423. We're going to be reading the questions in the order they appear in the queue with respect to how people vote up their preference for questions.

好的。謝謝，保羅。再次強調，如果您有任何疑問，請造訪 slido.com，#SpotifyEarningsQ423。我們將按照問題出現在隊列中的順序閱讀問題，以了解人們如何投票選出他們對問題的偏好。

And our first question is going to come today from Doug Anmuth on podcasting. Have podcasts flipped into positive gross profit yet? And how do you think about inflection here through '24 as you're rationalizing content spending?

今天我們的第一個問題將由 Doug Anmuth 提出關於播客的問題。播客的毛利已經轉為正數了嗎？當您合理化內容支出時，您如何看待 24 世紀以來的變化？

Yes, I'll take this one, Doug. Yes. So I think just to level set with everyone, I think when we had our Investor Day last year, everyone was probably expecting our podcast business to be a net adder to the business and probably thought that the music margins was worse than what they ended up being and obviously, as we outlined then, podcasting was a drag to the business, but something we were committed to turn around. And I'm pleased to say in Q4, we were very close to breakeven on that business, which gives me a lot of confidence that as we get into 2024, we will achieve the full year profitability target on podcasting.

是的，我要這個，道格。是的。因此，我認為，為了與大家保持一致，我認為當我們去年的投資者日時，每個人可能都期望我們的播客業務能夠成為該業務的淨增值者，並可能認為音樂利潤率比最終的結果更糟顯然，正如我們當時所概述的那樣，播客對業務造成了拖累，但我們致力於扭轉局面。我很高興地說，在第四季度，我們在該業務上非常接近收支平衡，這讓我很有信心，當我們進入 2024 年時，我們將實現播客的全年盈利目標。

And so when you think about then, what are the drivers for that to happen? Well, it's really two drivers. On the top line side, we're still seeing healthy growth on engagements. That engagement in turns means there will be more opportunities for us to monetize those engagement hours, and that's the top line. And then on the bottom line, we have doubled down on the deals that worked, and we have got -- really throughout 2023, gotten out of a lot of the deals that didn't work. And that's the result you're now seeing with the close to breakeven and that then will lead to a positive podcasting business in 2024.

那麼當你思考時，導致這種情況發生的驅動因素是什麼？嗯，確實是兩個司機。在營收方面，我們仍然看到業務量的健康成長。這種參與反過來意味著我們將有更多機會將這些參與時間貨幣化，這就是最重要的。從根本上來說，我們在有效的交易上加倍下注，並且在整個 2023 年，我們已經擺脫了許多無效的交易。這就是您現在看到的接近收支平衡的結果，這將在 2024 年帶來積極的播客業務。

All right. Our next question is going to come from Michael Morris on margins. What are the most impactful steps that will help you progress towards your long-term music gross margin goal of 30% to 35%? And can you share more detail on the gross margin levers in 2024 and the relative impact you anticipate from each?

好的。我們的下一個問題將來自邁克爾莫里斯（Michael Morris）的邊緣問題。哪些最有影響力的步驟可以幫助您實現 30% 至 35% 的長期音樂毛利率目標？您能否分享有關 2024 年毛利率水準的更多詳細資訊以及您對每個毛利率水準的相對影響的預期？

Great question, Michael. In terms of the progress on the music margin goals, we see a lot of potential in the growth of our marketplace products as we continue to focus on driving adoption of those and adding value to our label partners and therefore, sort of building upon the progress that we've already made to date in that area.

好問題，麥可。就音樂利潤率目標的進展而言，我們看到市場產品成長的巨大潛力，因為我們繼續專注於推動這些產品的採用並為我們的唱片合作夥伴增加價值，因此，在進展的基礎上再接再厲迄今為止我們已經在該領域取得了進展。

In terms of 2024, I think you've called out some of the key levers with respect to your comment on Q1. Really, the story of 2024, I think, can be broken into sort of these 3 parts. It's a continuation of the journey on profitability and podcasting. It's the continuation of marketplace growth, as I mentioned, and also just gaining greater efficiency and leverage in our other cost of revenue areas such as cloud cost and streaming delivery. We think all three are equal parts important to the story in 2024. And so we're looking forward to building on that progress there.

就 2024 年而言，我認為您已經在第一季的評論中指出了一些關鍵槓桿。事實上，我認為 2024 年的故事可以分成這三個部分。這是盈利能力和播客之旅的延續。正如我所提到的，這是市場成長的延續，並且在我們的其他收入成本領域（例如雲端成本和串流媒體交付）中獲得了更高的效率和槓桿作用。我們認為這三者對於 2024 年的故事來說同等重要。因此，我們期待在此基礎上繼續取得進展。

Okay. We've got a question now from Rich Greenfield on advertising. With advertising revenues still under 14% of your revenues. I'm surprised to see it's not growing faster than subscription revenue. How do you accelerate advertising growth to reach your goals of it becoming 20% plus of your overall revenues?

好的。我們現在收到 Rich Greenfield 提出的關於廣告的問題。廣告收入仍低於您收入的 14%。我很驚訝地發現它的成長速度並沒有快於訂閱收入的成長速度。如何加速廣告成長以實現廣告收入佔總收入 20% 以上的目標？

Yes, I'd say a couple of things here. So first, I think we're very pleased with how advertising is growing. Obviously, the market -- a lot of ways continues to be choppy, but our FX-neutral high-teens growth on the advertising side, we think is really strong and really strong relative to the industry overall. So we feel good about kind of the advertising growth. That's number one.

是的，我想在這裡說幾件事。首先，我認為我們對廣告的成長方式感到非常滿意。顯然，市場在許多方面仍然波動，但我們認為廣告方面的外匯中性高雙位數成長確實強勁，而且相對於整個產業確實強勁。所以我們對廣告的成長感到滿意。這是第一名。

Number 2 is, we've obviously seen on the subscriber side, it is faster growth on subscribers in general, plus we've had a price increase. And so just the overall growth on the premium side has probably been even faster than maybe we would have thought and others would have thought when you factor in both the outside subscriber growth and the price increase.

第二點是，我們在訂戶方面明顯看到，訂戶整體成長更快，而且我們還提高了價格。因此，當您考慮外部訂戶成長和價格上漲時，優質服務的整體成長可能比我們和其他人想像的還要快。

And the last thing I'd also just remind you of the advertising business does get impacted more significantly by FX than the premium business. And so when you're thinking about just reported numbers, that also has an impact on sort of the progression. But I think we feel really good about both sides of the businesses right now. So everything is progressing as planned.

最後我還要提醒您的是，廣告業務確實比高端業務更容易受到外匯的影響。因此，當您考慮剛剛報告的數字時，這也會對進展產生影響。但我認為我們現在對雙方的業務都感覺很好。所以一切都在按計劃進行。

All right. We've got a follow-up from Rich Greenfield on podcasting. How should we think about the revenue opportunity and gross margin impact of shifting from an exclusive podcast like Call Her Daddy or Joe Rogan to nonexclusive?

好的。我們收到了 Rich Greenfield 關於播客的後續報導。我們該如何看待從《Call Her Daddy》或《Joe Rogan》等獨家播客轉向非獨家播客的收入機會和毛利率影響？

Yes, Rich. So I think to kind of up level and talk about it generally and remind people. So when we walked into podcasting, we actually went in with multiple strategies at once. We did exclusives that you're referencing to, but we also did our own and original programming, and we also did licensed nonexclusive deals, too. And what we said at the time, I think many people mostly sort of made a reference to thinking that this was an all-out exclusive effort similar to that of Netflix. But we said we take much more of an opportunity approach to the strategy and we're going to try many different things. And for some shows, exclusive matters for some others, it don't.

是的，里奇。所以我認為要提高水平，一般性地談論它並提醒人們。因此，當我們進入播客領域時，我們實際上同時採用了多種策略。我們製作了您提到的獨家節目，但我們也製作了我們自己的原創節目，我們也製作了許可的非獨家交易。我們當時所說的，我想很多人大多認為這是類似 Netflix 的全面獨家努力。但我們說過，我們在策略上採取了更多的機會方法，我們將嘗試許多不同的事情。對於某些節目來說，獨家節目對其他節目來說很重要，但事實並非如此。

So I think the general story, just to be candid here with all of you on the line is that, what we've seen is that while exclusivities were net positive on the side, it's not driving as much as the opportunity that we see on the ad side. And so by broadening distribution, we think we can accomplish a number of different goals. Most notable among them, we are going to be more aligned with the creator. The creator obviously wants to be on many different platforms and wants to have as big of an audience as possible. So that's important.

因此，我認為，坦白說，總體情況是，我們所看到的是，雖然排他性從側面來看是淨積極的，但它並沒有我們看到的機會那麼大。廣告方面。因此，透過擴大分銷，我們認為我們可以實現許多不同的目標。其中最值得注意的是，我們將與創作者更加一致。創作者顯然希望出現在許多不同的平台上，並希望擁有盡可能多的觀眾。所以這很重要。

And then the second part is, when you think about the revenue growth story on advertising, we're very excited with what we've been seeing in early 2023 with these new types of deals that we've been structuring because we really become aligned with the creator. And long term, that is the reason why I started Spotify. We care equally about consumers, and we care equally about creators. So I feel like with this new strategy, we're actually even better aligned with the creator because we're not asking the creator to trade one for the other. And because advertising is in such a strong growth position for us, I feel I'm really excited about the opportunity we can bring both the creators and to Spotify itself with that strategy.

第二部分是，當你思考廣告收入成長的故事時，我們對 2023 年初所看到的這些我們一直在建立的新交易感到非常興奮，因為我們真的變得一致了與創造者。從長遠來看，這就是我創辦 Spotify 的原因。我們同樣關心消費者，我們也關心創作者。所以我覺得透過這個新策略，我們其實與創作者更一致，因為我們並沒有要求創作者用一個交換另一個。由於廣告對我們來說處於如此強勁的成長地位，我覺得我真的很興奮我們能夠透過這項策略為創作者和 Spotify 本身帶來機會。

Okay. Our next question comes from Zach Morrissey on Marketplace. Can you provide an update on marketplace and how that performed in 2023? And how should we think about momentum into '24?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自 Marketplace 上的 Zach Morrissey。您能否提供市場的最新情況以及 2023 年的表現？我們該如何看待 24 世紀的勢頭？

Yes. Marketplace performed really well in '23. The growth rate, basically the contribution to gross profit grew at similar rates to 2022. So really strong growth in '23. And then just to reiterate what Ben said prior about overall gross margin, when you think about the improvements and gross margin moving to 2024, marketplace will be a key contributor, again, along with the podcasting flip and some of the other costs of revenue.

是的。 Marketplace 在 23 年表現非常好。成長率，基本上對毛利的貢獻以與 2022 年類似的速度成長。所以 23 年的成長確實強勁。然後重申 Ben 之前所說的關於整體毛利率的內容，當你考慮到 2024 年的改進和毛利率時，市場將再次成為關鍵貢獻者，以及播客翻轉和其他一些收入成本。

Okay. We've got a follow-up from Zach. You saw strong subscriber growth and marketing leverage in 2023, how are you thinking about marketing spend in 2024? And do you see more room for further efficiencies?

好的。我們收到了札克的後續報道。您在 2023 年看到了強勁的用戶成長和行銷槓桿，您如何看待 2024 年的行銷支出？您是否認為還有更多提高效率的空間？

Yes. And just as a reminder to everyone, this is something I talked about, I believe, during the Q1 earnings call in 2023, where I was positively surprised and some of the efficiencies we were seeing is still sort of healthy top line growth. And that trend has been continuing for much of 2023. And the reality is we don't know how far that will go. I feel good about the efficiencies we're seeing so far.

是的。提醒大家，我相信這是我在 2023 年第一季財報電話會議上談到的事情，我感到非常驚訝，我們看到的一些效率仍然是健康的營收成長。這種趨勢在 2023 年的大部分時間裡都會持續。而現實是我們不知道這種趨勢會持續多久。我對迄今為止我們所看到的效率感到滿意。

The big concern always when you're making these things is you may see some healthy positive responses intra-quarter, but then long term, are you impacting the brand. So we're always going to modulate towards that. But -- but I think what we've been seeing so far has just been pure efficiencies and quite great ones. And I expect there's still some, but the question is still internally, we're still debating how much?

當你做這些事情時，最大的擔憂是你可能會在季度內看到一些健康的正面反應，但從長遠來看，你是否會對品牌產生影響。所以我們總是會朝著這個方向調整。但是——但我認為到目前為止我們所看到的只是純粹的效率，而且是相當出色的效率。我預計仍然會有一些，但問題仍然在內部，我們仍在爭論有多少？

The most important thing for us, as I said, is long-term growth still for the company. So that's what we will optimize for. And I think you're going to see us modulate between the quarters. Some quarters we may spend a little bit more on some less.

正如我所說，對我們來說最重要的是公司的長期成長。這就是我們要優化的。我認為你會看到我們在兩個季度之間進行調整。有些季度我們可能會多花一點錢，而有些季度會少花一點錢。

The most important metric for all of you, though, is to think about the LTV to SAC. We referenced this before. It had been in 2022 and 2023 going down, the efficiency in some of our spend. Now you're going to see a higher hurdle rates. So we're going to be a lot more diligent as we're thinking about these marketing investments overall. But the spending per quarter may be more opportunistic, and you should think about it as such. But if you see a strong LTV to SAC, why wouldn't you? And that's the approach we take.

不過，對大家來說最重要的指標是考慮 SAC 的 LTV。我們之前參考過這一點。 2022 年和 2023 年，我們一些支出的效率有所下降。現在您將看到更高的門檻率。因此，當我們全面考慮這些行銷投資時，我們將更加勤奮。但每季的支出可能更具機會主義色彩，您應該這樣考慮。但如果您看到 SAC 的生命週期價值很高，為什麼不呢？這就是我們採取的方法。

Okay. Our next question is going to come from Eric Sheridan on operating priorities. Following your fourth quarter restructuring, what's your updated view about balancing long-term growth investments, accelerating the pathway to long-term margin targets in the next few years? And/or optimizing internal efficiency on an annualized basis?

好的。我們的下一個問題將來自埃里克·謝裡登（Eric Sheridan），關於營運優先事項。在第四季重組之後，您對平衡長期成長投資、加速實現未來幾年長期利潤目標的最新看法是什麼？和/或按年度優化內部效率？

Yes, I'll start and then Paul or Ben, if you want to chime in on that.

是的，我先開始，然後是保羅或本，如果你想插話的話。

Yes. I mean, I really talked about it in my introductory remarks, but it is a new way for us to operate as a company, one where we're consistently thinking about efficiency all the time top line. We started doing it in early 2023, and I think we are gradually becoming better quarter-by-quarter. And I think investors should expect the same much for 2024. We are going to continuously look at being more resourceful with the resources we have. That's just the new modus operandi that we have.

是的。我的意思是，我在介紹性發言中確實談到了這一點，但這是我們作為一家公司運營的一種新方式，我們始終將效率放在首位。我們從 2023 年初開始這樣做，我認為我們每個季度都在逐漸變得更好。我認為投資者應該對 2024 年抱持著同樣的期望。我們將不斷考慮如何利用我們擁有的資源變得更加足智多謀。這就是我們的新作案手法。

But that said, that obviously leads to a concern then, okay, well, are we doing that to sacrifice at the expense of growth? And the answer should be, of course, not. That's not at all what we want to do. We still care about long-term growth because we believe that's where we're going to be able to solve real and meaningful problems for consumers and creators alike with scale. So that's our real focus.

但話雖如此，這顯然會引起人們的擔憂，好吧，好吧，我們這樣做是為了以犧牲成長為代價嗎？答案當然應該是否定的。這根本不是我們想要做的。我們仍然關心長期成長，因為我們相信只有這樣我們才能大規模地為消費者和創作者解決真正且有意義的問題。所以這是我們真正的重點。

But it's a constant balancing act. And I think what you're seeing us rather than sort of growth at all cost or growth, growth, growth, you're going to see us quarter-by-quarter optimizing at various parts of that funnel. Sometimes it's top line growth, sometimes it's bottom line. As a general trend, we had healthy top line growth in 2023. 2024 is about monetizing more of that top line growth. That's the general trend. But you'll see in various geographies, we may have just MAU growth as the goal and in some others, it may be more of a just ARPU approach as an example.

但這是一個持續的平衡行為。我認為你所看到的不是我們不惜一切代價的成長，或是成長、成長、成長，而是我們在該漏斗的各個部分逐季進行最佳化。有時是頂線增長，有時是底線。作為整體趨勢，我們在 2023 年實現了健康的營收成長。2024 年我們將把更多的營收成長貨幣化。這是大勢所趨。但您會發現，在不同的地區，我們可能僅將 MAU 成長作為目標，而在其他一些地區，可能更多地將 ARPU 方法作為範例。

Yes. I would just add, I think to everything Daniel said, if you think about the free cash flow and the acceleration of free cash flow and the better profitability, it just gives the business so much more optionality in terms of what it can do moving forward. And so I think you've seen that sort of inflection on the free cash flow side, you've now seen us on an adjusted basis, profitable for two quarters in a row with the forecast again for Q1 of next year. And so all that just puts the business in a much better place for the team to have the optionality to invest in areas that really makes sense for the long term.

是的。我想補充一點，我認為丹尼爾所說的一切，如果你考慮到自由現金流、自由現金流的加速以及更好的盈利能力，它只會為企業在前進方面提供更多選擇。因此，我認為您已經看到了自由現金流方面的這種變化，您現在已經看到我們在調整後的基礎上連續兩個季度實現盈利，並再次預測明年第一季。因此，所有這些都只是讓業務處於一個更好的位置，讓團隊可以選擇投資於真正具有長期意義的領域。

Okay. Our next question is going to come from Rich Greenfield on audio books. What surprises you most about the current state of the audio book market?

好的。我們的下一個問題將來自 Rich Greenfield 關於有聲書的問題。有聲書市場的現況最讓您驚訝的是什麼？

Yes, Rich, I think it's two parts of focus. So I think on our side, the intriguing part is we are able to bring a whole new audience to audio books. So internally and externally, I think the biggest surprise has been the type of titles that resonate with consumers. These are not the normal titles that traditionally does well, that do well on Spotify, and that's pleasing to see because that means we're bringing a whole new audience to audio books, the format, which is great to see.

是的，Rich，我認為這是重點的兩個部分。所以我認為對我們來說，有趣的是我們能夠為有聲書帶來全新的受眾。因此，無論是內部還是外部，我認為最大的驚喜是能夠引起消費者共鳴的遊戲類型。這些不是傳統上表現出色的普通圖書，在 Spotify 上表現出色，這是令人高興的，因為這意味著我們正在為有聲讀物帶來全新的受眾，這種格式很高興看到。

And then I think overall, I'm just happy to see that the partners we have on the publisher side and the author sides are just very excited about the innovation we're bringing and very open-minded to trying new things. And this is an industry that's so important, I think, to the world. And it's great to see that there is a hunger and willingness to innovate among all of our partners there. So that's definitely been a positive surprise. And it's amazing to see also how much value audio books is adding to our subscriber base. So I feel really good about that.

然後我認為總的來說，我很高興看到我們在出版商和作者方面的合作夥伴對我們帶來的創新感到非常興奮，並且對嘗試新事物非常開放。我認為這個行業對世界來說非常重要。很高興看到我們所有的合作夥伴都渴望創新並願意創新。所以這絕對是一個正面的驚喜。令人驚訝的是，有聲書為我們的訂戶群增加了多少價值。所以我對此感覺很好。

Okay. Next question is from Benjamin Black on margins. Last quarter, you mentioned 2024 gross margin should exceed those of 2023. Is that still the case? And if so, how should we be thinking about the trajectory of gross margins throughout 2024?

好的。下一個問題是本傑明·布萊克在頁邊空白處提出的。上個季度，您提到2024年的毛利率應該超過2023年。現在仍然如此嗎？如果是這樣，我們應該如何考慮 2024 年全年毛利率的軌跡？

Thanks, Benjamin. Building on my earlier commentary, we feel very excited about the potential for 2024 gross margins. I mentioned some of the building blocks that we have ahead of us kind of going into this year. And I think you should expect that we're going to continue focusing on what we did in 2023, which is building sequential growth in that gross margin, and it's about executing against those building blocks of opportunity that we have that I mentioned previously.

謝謝，本傑明。根據我先前的評論，我們對 2024 年毛利率的潛力感到非常興奮。我提到了今年我們面臨的一些建置模組。我認為你應該期望我們將繼續關注我們在 2023 年所做的事情，即毛利率的連續增長，並且是針對我之前提到的我們擁有的那些機會的基礎來執行。

Okay. Our next question is going to come from Jessica Reif Ehrlich on the music business. Universal Music Group just pulled their music from TikTok. What are the implications to Spotify from a competitive standpoint? And how does this impact, if at all, your negotiations with your recorded music partners?

好的。我們的下一個問題將來自傑西卡·雷夫·埃利希（Jessica Reif Ehrlich）關於音樂產業的問題。環球音樂集團剛剛從 TikTok 上撤下了他們的音樂。從競爭的角度來看，這對 Spotify 有何影響？這對您與錄製音樂合作夥伴的談判有何影響（如果有的話）？

Yes. Obviously, I'm not going to comment on any sort of competitive dynamic. But what I can say is we feel really good about our relationship with our music partners. It's probably at the best it's been. I don't know, whatever, it's been better, to be honest. So I feel really good about where we are with our music partners. I feel great about the value we're bringing to the music industry. And I think that's being widely recognized. And yes, I don't think it has much of an implication, any other competitive dynamic but we feel good about the partnership. We feel great about opportunities to enhance the partnership to any extent that, that creates opportunities. So yes, we're overall very excited.

是的。顯然，我不會評論任何形式的競爭動態。但我可以說的是，我們對與音樂合作夥伴的關係感覺非常好。這可能是最好的狀態。我不知道，無論如何，說實話，現在好多了。所以我對我們與音樂夥伴的關係感到非常滿意。我對我們為音樂產業帶來的價值感到非常高興。我認為這一點正在得到廣泛認可。是的，我認為這對任何其他競爭動態沒有太大影響，但我們對這種夥伴關係感覺良好。我們對加強合作關係的機會感到非常高興，只要能創造機會。所以，是的，我們總體上非常興奮。

All right. Our next question is from Maria Ripps audio books. Could you talk about what type of engagement you've seen with the free 15 hours of audio books listening? To what extent do you think the expanded value proposition is driving any of the subscriber momentum? And are you seeing any uplift to audio books purchases in the relevant markets?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自瑪麗亞·里普斯有聲書。您能談談您在 15 小時免費有聲書收聽中看到的參與類型嗎？您認為擴大的價值主張在多大程度上推動了訂戶動力？您是否發現相關市場的有聲書購買量增加？

Yes, Maria. So I mentioned that in my prior response, but the engagement has been very strong, very positively surprised about the content mix. It's driving as well what type of titles that our consumers are engaging with not very surprising. It is a lot of entertainment. It's a lot about culture. Maybe some of the titles that traditionally doesn't do as well in the book market, but also pleasing is very many younger authors, newer authors as well given the model where you can take a chance on a totally new book without sort of eating up the credit, which I think kind of drove you towards more safer bets. So we're seeing a very, very interesting sort of trend around the content consumption, which is really great and I believe, additive to the entire book industry, which is amazing.

是的，瑪麗亞。所以我在之前的回覆中提到了這一點，但參與度非常高，對內容組合感到非常驚訝。它也決定了我們的消費者喜歡什麼類型的遊戲，這並不奇怪。這是很多娛樂活動。這與文化有許多關係。也許有些書傳統上在圖書市場上表現不佳，但也令人高興的是許多年輕作家，新作家以及考慮到這種模式，你可以在不吃東西的情況下嘗試一本全新的書信用，我認為這會促使你做出更安全的賭注。因此，我們在內容消費方面看到了一個非常非常有趣的趨勢，這真的很棒，我相信，這對整個圖書行業來說是令人驚嘆的。

Now as it relates to how that translates into our business, I think it's too early to say but what we've seen generally speaking is the more engagement we have on our platform, the better the value is of course and then everyone knows that audio books is an expensive proposition where buying an audio books today costs a lot of money. So it's another reason why we're offering a great value to our consumers. And that, of course, gives us an ability to increase the value that then allows us long term to follow through by reflecting that in the price that we have as well to our consumers.

現在，由於它涉及如何轉化為我們的業務，我認為現在說還為時過早，但我們普遍看到的是，我們在平台上的參與度越高，價值當然就越高，然後每個人都知道音頻書籍是昂貴的產品，今天購買有聲書要花很多錢。因此，這也是我們為消費者提供巨大價值的另一個原因。當然，這使我們有能力增加價值，然後透過將其反映在我們向消費者提供的價格中，使我們能夠長期堅持下去。

Okay. Next question from Justin Patterson on revenue potential. Investors now have confidence in your operating margin potential and the redesigned app is resonating with users. As you look ahead, what should give investors confidence in your revenue growth, achieving the 20% targets outlined at your Investor Day?

好的。賈斯汀·帕特森提出的下一個問題是關於收入潛力的。投資者現在對您的營業利潤潛力充滿信心，而重新設計的應用程式正在引起用戶的共鳴。展望未來，什麼能讓投資人對您的營收成長充滿信心，實現投資人日所訂定的 20% 目標？

I'll start with this one, Ben, and then maybe you can chime in.

本，我將從這個開始，然後也許你可以插話。

So I think, again, this is very much a continuation of the trend of 2023. And just to level set again, 2023, we walked into the year thinking that we'll have healthy top line growth and focus on the bottom line on efficiencies and that was pretty much the year, but we exceeded all of our expectations on the MAU side, which then translated into exceeding all of our expectations on the sub side and then when you top off that with price increases, that leads to a very healthy dynamic. And that top line growth has really been a continuation of that trend in all of 2023.

因此，我再次認為，這在很大程度上是2023 年趨勢的延續。為了再次設定水平，2023 年，我們在進入這一年時認為我們將實現健康的營收成長，並專注於效率的底線那幾乎就是這一年，但我們在月活躍用戶方面超出了我們的所有預期，然後轉化為在子方面超出了我們的所有預期，然後當你通過價格上漲來彌補這一點時，這會導致非常健康的成長動態的。這種收入成長實際上是 2023 年全年這一趨勢的延續。

So I've said this before, but I'll say it again, MAU growth sooner or later then translate into conversion to subscriber that sooner or later then translate into revenue growth that sooner or later then translates into bottom line. And so given 2023, I feel really good about our ability to have healthy revenue growth throughout the year and with this smaller cost structures that we're having because of the focus on efficiency that we had really throughout 2023, we talked about it on the podcasting side. We talked about it on the employee side but also, as Ben mentioned, with cloud costs, all the other things that we've been focusing on, that should give you confidence that 2024 will be a great year.

我之前已經說過，但我會再說一遍，MAU 成長遲早會轉化為訂戶轉化，遲早會轉化為營收成長，遲早會轉化為利潤。因此，考慮到 2023 年，我對我們全年收入健康成長的能力感到非常滿意，並且由於我們在 2023 年真正關注效率，因此我們擁有較小的成本結構，我們在播客方面。我們在員工方面討論了這個問題，但正如 Ben 提到的，隨著雲端成本以及我們一直關注的所有其他事情，這應該會讓您相信 2024 年將是偉大的一年。

I don't know if you have any addition, Ben?

不知道Ben您還有什麼補充嗎？

Yes. No, I think all that commentary is very much sort of the perspective going forward. The top -- the funnel kind of our user side and subside looks very strong. And I think the focus is about sort of monetizing that, both from a premium subscription perspective as well as focusing on making sure that our ad business continues to grow at a healthy clip going forward. So we feel really strong about sort of progressing towards the 20% targets.

是的。不，我認為所有這些評論都是對未來的展望。頂部—我們用戶側的漏斗類型和下沉看起來非常強大。我認為重點在於將其貨幣化，無論是從高級訂閱的角度來看，還是專注於確保我們的廣告業務未來繼續以健康的速度成長。因此，我們對於朝著 20% 的目標取得進展感到非常有信心。

Okay. Our next question is going to come from Kannan Venkateshwar on product. Given the pricing is a bigger part of the growth algorithm. Have you considered models beyond the All-You-Can-Eat framework used today?

好的。我們的下一個問題將來自 Kannan Venkateshwar 關於產品的問題。鑑於定價是成長演算法的重要組成部分。您是否考慮過當今使用的“無限量吃到飽”框架之外的模型？

In fact, we actually already do have some other pricing mechanics throughout the world. It's easy to think that Spotify is a single proposition for everyone in the world. It's far from today. So for instance, we have a day passes, it's just one product that we're offering in certain markets, week passes. We even have physical gift cards that people scratch cards from on a weekly basis in order to top up their Spotify listening. So we are very much adapting our pricing models in favor of what consumers want. And that's something that you should expect us to continue to do.

事實上，我們實際上已經在世界各地擁有了一些其他定價機制。人們很容易認為 Spotify 是適合世界上每個人的單一主張。距離今天還很遙遠。例如，我們有一日通行證，這只是我們在某些​​市場提供的一種產品，週通行證。我們甚至提供實體禮品卡，人們可以每週刮刮一張卡片，以充值 Spotify 的收聽費用。因此，我們正在大力調整我們的定價模式，以適應消費者的需求。您應該期望我們繼續這樣做。

Now with that said, to touch a little bit, one of the things, of course, why we are talking about the Apple case is many things like, for instance, a la carte purchases, things like superfan things like purchasing of audio books, top-up things that could be quite meaningful for Spotify's revenues is a significant hindrance today because Apple insists on taking a 30% cut, which in many cases, exceeds even our own cuts that we're able to take inside of the app. So some of these more innovative things that we would like to do, we are currently restricted in doing on the iOS ecosystem, which limits some of that more innovative things that we would like to do.

現在話雖如此，要觸及一點，其中一件事，當然，我們為什麼談論蘋果案涉及很多事情，例如點菜購買，超級粉絲之類的事情，例如購買有聲讀物，充值對於Spotify 的收入來說非常有意義，但如今卻是一個重大障礙，因為蘋果堅持收取30% 的佣金，在許多情況下，這甚至超過了我們在應用程式內部所能收取的佣金。因此，我們想做的一些更具創新性的事情目前在 iOS 生態系統上受到限制，這限制了我們想做的一些更具創新性的事情。

So yes, all in all, we are already doing it in other territories. We would like to do even more of it. But to do that, certainly in the Western world, which many of these markets being very heavily iOS influenced, we are precluded from doing it at a way where -- which could be profitable and good for consumers and creators because of Apple stance.

所以，是的，總而言之，我們已經在其他地區這樣做了。我們還想做得更多。但要做到這一點，當然在西方世界，其中許多市場都受到iOS 的嚴重影響，我們無法以一種可能有利可圖、對消費者和創作者有利的方式來做這件事，因為蘋果的立場。

All right. That's a good segue into Michael Morris' question on the Digital Markets Act. You posted twice about the DMA with the potential positives to your business and then also about your dissatisfaction with Apple's proposed changes. Do you expect the DMA to be implemented in a way that supports your vision? And if so, what do you expect the new functions to be available? And how may they impact the company financially?

好的。這是邁克爾莫里斯關於《數位市場法案》問題的一個很好的延續。您兩次發布了有關 DMA 對您業務的潛在積極影響的信息，然後發布了您對 Apple 提議的更改的不滿。您期望 DMA 的實施方式能夠支持您的願景嗎？如果是這樣，您預計會提供哪些新功能？它們會對公司的財務產生什麼影響？

Michael, I think the truth is we don't know yet. The -- we outline our response to how we would be compliant with the DMA. But obviously, that then very much depends on Apple stance in allowing us to do so. And Apple then obviously subsequently responded with their stance, which is very much incongruent with our stance on the matter and frankly, I think it's a bit of a forest because it looks on the surface that they're complying with it but behind the surface, they're doing pretty much everything to make this such an attractive experience that's no same developer want to pick any of the new terms.

邁克爾，我認為事實是我們還不知道。我們概述了我們對如何遵守 DMA 的回應。但顯然，這在很大程度上取決於蘋果允許我們這樣做的立場。然後蘋果顯然隨後回應了他們的立場，這與我們在此事上的立場非常不一致，坦率地說，我認為這有點像森林，因為表面上看起來他們正在遵守它，但在表面之下，他們正在盡一切努力讓這種體驗變得如此有吸引力，以至於沒有開發者願意選擇任何新術語。

Now the good news, I guess, from the investor standpoint, and I know that there initially with some questions about whether or not this would be a downside for Spotify. I don't think that's the case. So we still have the ability to be on the old terms and keep going as we're currently going. But there are future upsides that could be quite significant.

我想，從投資人的角度來看，這是個好消息，而且我知道最初有人質疑這是否會對 Spotify 帶來負面影響。我認為情況並非如此。因此，我們仍然有能力按照舊的方式繼續前進。但未來的優勢可能非常顯著。

We talked a little bit about it with fan clubs, all these other things that we could do for creators that we would probably be barred from doing because it simply means that all of Spotify would be unprofitable if we took these new terms. So no downside, but there will be quite a lot of upside if, in fact, we were going to be able to do what we wanted to do, not just for Spotify, but for creators and consumers alike.

我們與粉絲俱樂部討論了一些我們可以為創作者做的所有其他事情，但我們可能會被禁止做，因為這僅僅意味著如果我們接受這些新條款，所有 Spotify 將無利可圖。所以沒有什麼壞處，但如果事實上我們能夠做我們想做的事情，不僅是為了 Spotify，而且為了創作者和消費者，那麼將會有很多好處。

And just as a last reminder, this law will come into play in March 7. So obviously, my hope is still very much that the European Commission will take action and allow this to happen because it will be far greater for the ecosystem, both for consumers and creators alike.

最後提醒一下，這項法律將於 3 月 7 日生效。顯然，我仍然非常希望歐盟委員會採取行動並允許這種情況發生，因為這對生態系統來說將是更大的事情，無論是對於消費者和創造者都是如此。

Okay. Our next question comes from Batya Levi on audio books. How should we think about the impact of audio books consumption cost on margins?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自 Batya Levi 關於有聲書的問題。我們該如何看待有聲書消費成本對利潤的影響？

Yes. Thanks, Batya. So as you know, we don't really break out the individual components like that. What I will say is while we're investing in audio books, we still see a nice improvement in gross margin through 2024, which Ben has talked about at length already on the call. And so -- we feel like we have a model for audio books and the progression of audio books over the next couple of years. It's going to be very additive. We've talked about at the Investor Day where we believe the long-term gross margin of the audio books business can get to. And so we're still really encouraged about that. And in general, we're very optimistic that you're going to continue to see gross margin progression throughout 2024.

是的。謝謝，巴蒂亞。如您所知，我們並沒有真正分解這樣的各個組件。我要說的是，雖然我們投資有聲讀物，但到 2024 年，我們仍然看到毛利率有不錯的改善，Ben 已經在電話會議上詳細談到了這一點。因此，我們覺得我們已經有了一個有聲書的模型以及未來幾年有聲書的發展。這將是非常附加的。我們在投資者日談到了我們相信有聲書業務的長期毛利率可以達到的水平。所以我們仍然對此感到非常鼓舞。總的來說，我們非常樂觀地認為 2024 年毛利率將持續成長。

Okay. We've got another question from Kannan, this time on the music business. Has growth in international markets helped flip any major ones from fixed minimum payouts to variable payouts? And could we see some impact in 2024?

好的。 Kannan 向我們提出了另一個問題，這次是關於音樂業務的。國際市場的成長是否有助於將任何主要市場從固定最低支出轉變為可變支出？ 2024 年我們能看到一些影響嗎？

Great question, Kannan. The short version -- the short answer to this question is yes. I would say that it's been a story of steady progress in sort of how we grow the user base and then begin to monetize them in these international markets and there's really kind of two engines to this. It's about sort of driving subscriber growth and building upon sort of the subscription revenues in these markets, but also making sure that we start to light up the advertising side in these markets as well, both of which basically ultimately help us clear these hurdles in fixed minimum payouts. So I think the story is one of ever constant progress in this department.

好問題，卡南。簡短的版本——這個問題的簡短答案是肯定的。我想說，這是一個關於我們如何擴大用戶群，然後開始在這些國際市場上將其貨幣化的穩步進展的故事，這實際上有兩個引擎。這是為了推動訂閱用戶成長並建立這些市場的訂閱收入，同時確保我們也開始點亮這些市場的廣告方面，這兩者基本上最終幫助我們清除固定的這些障礙最低支出。所以我認為這個故事是這個部門不斷進步的故事之一。

Okay. We've got another question from Doug Anmuth on podcasting. With most major podcast content renewals resolved, what are your key priorities for the podcast business in 2024?

好的。我們收到 Doug Anmuth 提出的另一個有關播客的問題。隨著大多數主要播客內容更新的解決，您 2024 年播客業務的主要優先事項是什麼？

Yes. Much more of a continuation of 2023 with the exception, obviously, as you said, we've kind of transitioned the podcasting business from one structure to a different structure throughout 2023, that's mostly done. Now it's back to innovation and growth again.

是的。更多的是 2023 年的延續，但顯然，正如您所說，我們在 2023 年將播客業務從一種結構轉變為另一種結構，這基本上已經完成。現在又回到了創新和成長。

What I'm most excited about is there are lots of things that creators are asking us to do that enables them to easier post content, have more ways of engaging with their audience. You've seen some of this already in ['22 and '23]. As a reminder, you saw video podcasting growing in a healthy way on the platform. You've seen us add Q&A responses, which is quite phenomenal to see the comments that are showing up on Spotify. Now you've seen much more interactivity and more and more creators are starting to use those tools, but that's just the beginning. We have plenty of plans on podcasting, which I think will mean more content on the platform, which I also think means more engagement.

最令我興奮的是，創作者要求我們做很多事情，讓他們更輕鬆地發佈內容，有更多方式與觀眾互動。您已經在 ['22 和 '23] 中看到了其中的一些內容。提醒一下，您看到視訊播客在該平台上以健康的方式成長。您已經看到我們添加了問答回复，這對於 Spotify 上顯示的評論來說是相當驚人的。現在您已經看到了更多的互動性，越來越多的創作者開始使用這些工具，但這只是開始。我們在播客方面有很多計劃，我認為這將意味著平台上有更多內容，我也認為這意味著更多的參與。

So it has been a profitability story in 2023. And I think that's going to play out. But where we're focused on is really all about now growing podcasting and increasing it. And we think it's a lot larger of a medium than most people really today give it credit for. That's not where we need to prove. But we are doing so from a profitable standpoint instead of one that's losing a lot of money for us.

因此，2023 年將是一個盈利故事。我認為這將會發生。但我們關注的其實是現在播客的發展和增加。我們認為它比當今大多數人真正認為的要大得多。這不是我們需要證明的地方。但我們這樣做是從有利可圖的角度出發，而不是從讓我們損失很多錢的角度出發。

Okay. We've got a question from Rich Greenfield on user engagement. Daniel, you've talked about user interest in your [Hack day] creation day list, which feels like another [AIML] use case to drive engagement. How is it impacting overall usage and time spent? And by the way, my day list for today is [Sad Tailspin Tuesday].

好的。我們收到 Rich Greenfield 提出的有關用戶參與度的問題。 Daniel，您談到了用戶對您的 [Hack day] 建立日列表的興趣，這感覺像是另一個推動參與的 [AIML] 用例。它如何影響整體使用情況和花費的時間？順便說一下，我今天的日程是[悲傷的混亂星期二]。

All right. Well, hopefully, nothing we're seeing on this call today gives you any reason to tail spin on a sad basis. But jokes aside, yes, I mean this, again, is a story of innovation at Spotify. What's so cool is we have these crazy engineers and scientists inside of the company that dreams up these kind of weird and wonderful things, which seems like very narrow use cases, but this is culture. And what they do is they test culture and they bring it out and they personalize culture to people. And it turns out that people are just reacting in this weird and wonderful way, and they want to express their own identity through music, which in itself is not surprising. It's a very core thing for humanity and something that we've been doing. And the team keeps finding weird and wonderful ways for consumers to be able to do that.

好的。好吧，希望我們今天在這次電話會議上看到的一切都不會讓你有任何理由在悲傷的基礎上陷入困境。但拋開笑話不談，是的，我的意思是，這又是 Spotify 的創新故事。最酷的是我們公司內部有這些瘋狂的工程師和科學家，他們夢想著這些奇怪而美妙的東西，這看起來是非常狹窄的用例，但這就是文化。他們所做的就是測試文化，並將其展示出來，並向人們提供個人化的文化。事實證明，人們只是以這種奇怪而美妙的方式做出反應，他們想透過音樂來表達自己的身份，這本身並不奇怪。這是人類非常核心的事情，也是我們一直在做的事情。團隊不斷尋找奇怪而奇妙的方式讓消費者能夠做到這一點。

And I think I referenced this, but we saw searches increased by over 2,000% on a day list. So it's a widely sought after feature people are excited to come into the app every day now to find out whatever Spotify thinks your current mood is of today. And yes, we keep churning these types of things out. It's kind of our way of creating content. And I'm really proud of the team and the things that they're doing in this department and it wouldn't surprise me if we see many more innovative things come out of it, both on -- of course, on the music side, but later on also reflecting that on the audio book side and the podcasting side as well.

我想我參考了這一點，但我們發現一天清單中的搜尋量增加了 2,000% 以上。因此，這是一項廣受追捧的功能，人們現在每天都興奮地進入該應用程序，了解 Spotify 認為您當前的心情。是的，我們一直在生產這些類型的東西。這是我們創建內容的方式。我真的為這個團隊以及他們在這個部門所做的事情感到自豪，如果我們看到更多創新的東西從中誕生，我不會感到驚訝，當然，在音樂方面，但後來也反映在有聲讀物方面和播客方面。

Okay. Our next question is going to come from Benjamin Black on efficiency. What are some of the key learnings you've seen with the more streamlined cost structure? And as we look ahead, what's your philosophy on headcount growth?

好的。我們的下一個問題將來自本傑明·布萊克（Benjamin Black）關於效率的問題。您從更精簡的成本結構中看到了哪些重要經驗？展望未來，您對員工人數成長的理念是什麼？

Yes. I mean the key things are probably not the surprising things. It's always what happens, right? Initially, when you go through an exercise, everyone kind of says, well, we can't cut this because then all of a sudden, everything will stop working. And it turns out that -- as this is true in so many cases, most things can tend to work anyway even when you go through that exercise, and it actually even killing things that sometimes sort of works is a healthy thing to refocus and reenergize people on the things that really drive lots of value. So those are some of the obvious lessons, which I think you guys have heard plenty of times before on these calls before.

是的。我的意思是，關鍵的事情可能不是令人驚訝的事情。事情總是會發生，對吧？最初，當你進行練習時，每個人都會說，好吧，我們不能削減這個，因為突然之間，一切都會停止工作。事實證明，在很多情況下都是如此，即使你進行了這種練習，大多數事情也往往會發揮作用，而且實際上，它甚至殺死有時有效的東西，重新集中註意力和重新註入活力是一件健康的事人們從事真正能帶來巨大價值的事。這些是一些明顯的教訓，我想你們之前在這些電話會議上已經聽過很多次了。

I think the more exciting things are the things we're in the midst of learning this as a company. So by no way it means things we're fully adapted to this mindset. But I think, this is something I wrote in my internal memo that we then published as well is, is this notion of being relentlessly resourceful. For me, that means to think constantly about the resources we're having and not just think about getting more of them, but thinking about how we reallocate constantly everything we're doing to the most and highest impact use case. And there, I don't think we are yet. So I think the good news is that there is still some ways for us to go on it.

我認為更令人興奮的事情是我們作為一家公司正在學習的事情。因此，這絕不意味著我們完全適應了這種心態。但我認為，這是我在內部備忘錄寫的，然後我們也發表了，這就是不斷足智多謀的概念。對我來說，這意味著不斷思考我們擁有的資源，而不僅僅是考慮獲得更多資源，而是思考如何不斷地將我們正在做的一切重新分配給最具影響力的用例。我認為我們還沒有做到這一點。所以我認為好消息是我們仍然有一些方法可以繼續下去。

And I think the way you should think about headcount growth is, we're not allergic to it. We're not saying, hey, we can never ever grow anything. We should grow things that obviously are working, but the hurdle rate for any new type of investments will be much higher than what it has been and more importantly, I think you're going to see us more diligent in shutting down things that perhaps have sort of worked but may not work as well going forward into the future. And you're going to see that all across the company in a pretty big way.

我認為你應該考慮員工人數成長的方式是，我們對此並不過敏。我們並不是說，嘿，我們永遠無法種植任何東西。我們應該發展那些顯然有效的東西，但任何新型投資的最低門檻都會比以前高得多，更重要的是，我認為你會看到我們更勤奮地關閉那些可能已經有效的東西。有點有效，但在未來可能不會那麼有效。你會在整個公司範圍內看到這一點。

And I think the biggest takeaway I can give to you, that doesn't mean that the company is any danger of any kind because sometimes that get interpreted by media and investor, if they're no longer showing up in a big way to event X, maybe they're in dire straits and so on. That's not the case. We're just simply thinking about, are there better ways for us to do this? Are there better ways for us to achieve this efficiency and try to think outside of the box. Maybe it is not to throw the lavish party. Maybe it is to have a virtual party where we could have 10x the audience come and show up. Maybe it is about partnering with other brands and doing something in conjunction that where 1 plus 1 doesn't equal 2, but equals 3 or more.

我認為我可以給你的最大收穫是，這並不意味著該公司有任何形式的危險，因為有時媒體和投資者會解釋這一點，如果他們不再以大張旗鼓的方式出現在活動中X，也許他們正處於水深火熱之中等等。事實並非如此。我們只是簡單地思考，是否有更好的方法可以做到這一點？我們是否有更好的方法來實現這種效率並嘗試跳出框框思考。也許不是為了舉辦奢華的聚會。也許是舉辦一個虛擬派對，讓 10 倍的觀眾來參加。也許是與其他品牌合作，共同做一些事情，1加1不等於2，而是等於3或更多。

So you're going to see us, I think, still have a lot to learn, but re-question things that in the past have worked, but we need to think about how we do them going forward.

所以你會看到我們，我認為，仍然有很多東西需要學習，但會重新質疑過去有效的事情，但我們需要考慮未來如何做。

All right. We've got time for a few more questions. Our next one is going to come from Steven Cahall on margins. First quarter is typically the lower margin quarter of the year. Are there any onetime benefits in the strong implied Q1 margin guidance? Or can we assume the same seasonality of sequentially improving margins for 2024?

好的。我們還有時間再問幾個問題。我們的下一位將來自史蒂文·卡霍爾（Steven Cahall）。第一季通常是一年中利潤率較低的季度。強而有力的隱含第一季利潤指引是否有任何一次性好處？或者我們可以假設 2024 年利潤率會出現同樣的季節性成長嗎？

Thanks, Steven. I think you have sort of the right themes in your question there. I think to reiterate, as Daniel said, in 2023, we had a lot of focus areas between sort of growing our users and subs, driving sort of monetization to price increases and efficiency actions, all these has sort of taken our core business, I think, to a new stair step. And I think Q1 is sort of where that new core business is shining through. And so I think that implies sort of like a new starting point, I think, for where you can expect the margin to go. And as I said before, our focus is to continue building on that sequentially quarter-on-quarter into 2024. So we look forward to making progress in that department.

謝謝，史蒂文。我認為你的問題有一些正確的主題。我想重申一下，正如丹尼爾所說，到2023 年，我們有很多重點領域，包括增加用戶和訂閱者、推動貨幣化以提高價格和效率行動，所有這些都在某種程度上佔據了我們的核心業務，我想，到一個新的台階。我認為第一季是新核心業務大放異彩的地方。所以我認為這意味著一個新的起點，我認為，你可以期望利潤率的走向。正如我之前所說，我們的重點是在 2024 年繼續按季度繼續發展。因此，我們期待在該部門取得進展。

Okay. We've got question from Richard Kramer on execution. What's the message to the organization about new growth initiatives following your recent headcount reduction? How do you mitigate the execution risk in 2024?

好的。我們收到了理查德·克萊默關於執行的問題。最近裁員後，關於新的成長計畫向組織傳達了什麼訊息？您如何降低 2024 年的執行風險？

Yes. I think implied in your question, Richard, is obviously this, how do you do both? How do you, on the one hand, save? And how do you tell people that you want to grow? And I think this is why in my last response, I focus so much about the mindset of being relentlessly resourceful and what it actually means. So I don't think it is either or I think it's both. And so I think we need to become more efficient by deprioritizing some of the existing things, but we also need to invest in some of the new. But when we're investing in some of the new, what is the optimal way of doing that? You talk about execution risk. I think it is exactly the right thing and right framing of it. It is about execution. It isn't about strategy. It's about how do we -- [buy] constraining the resources we have, how do we think about different ways to executing some of these newer growth initiatives? If the hurdle rate is X, how can we more quickly prove out that something is working?

是的。理查德，我認為你的問題顯然暗示著這一點，你是如何做到這兩點的？一方面，你如何節省？你如何告訴人們你想要成長？我認為這就是為什麼在我上次的回應中，我如此關注「足智多謀」的心態及其實際意義。所以我認為兩者都不是，或者兩者兼而有之。因此，我認為我們需要透過取消一些現有事物的優先順序來提高效率，但我們也需要投資一些新事物。但是，當我們投資一些新產品時，最佳方法是什麼？你談到執行風險。我認為這完全是正確的事情和正確的框架。這是關於執行的。這與策略無關。這是關於我們如何—[購買]限制我們擁有的資源，我們如何考慮執行這些新的成長計劃的不同方法？如果最低門檻率為 X，我們如何更快證明某件事正在發揮作用？

Those are some of the questions that I, Ben, Paul and the rest of the team is having when we're looking at these types of things and when we're talking to the teams. And I think the good news is that the teams are excited. They're excited to show that there's a different path to do this. They're excited because they also see the momentum in how it currently translates to the business and that sort of momentum fuels that mindset as well. I think it would have been honestly harder to do so from a backdrop if we had to do some of these discussions if we had 1 year, 1.5 years of slog just ever sort of going through this. But we've actually gone through all the hard stuff this past year. And we have plenty of things to learn, of course, but I feel really good about now. The optimism that the team has never fun to do a riff of course.

這些是我、本、保羅和團隊其他成員在研究這些類型的事情以及與團隊交談時遇到的一些問題。我認為好消息是團隊都很興奮。他們很高興向大家展示，有一條不同的途徑可以做到這一點。他們很興奮，因為他們也看到了它目前如何轉化為業務的勢頭，而這種勢頭也推動了這種心態。我認為，如果我們需要 1 年、1.5 年的時間來進行這些討論，那麼從背景來看，這樣做確實會更困難。但去年我們其實已經經歷了所有困難。當然，我們還有很多東西要學，但我現在感覺很好。當然，團隊從來沒有玩過即興演奏的樂觀情緒。

And so we're happy to have this behind us, and we feel obviously a huge sense of gratitude to everyone who has been part of the company and then had to leave. But I know the team is excited about where we are and where we're heading and how it's translated into a healthier Spotify.

因此，我們很高興這一切都過去了，而且我們顯然對所有曾經加入公司但後來不得不離開的人懷有巨大的感激之情。但我知道團隊對我們的現狀和前進方向以及如何將其轉化為更健康的 Spotify 感到興奮。

All right. We're going to take one last question, and we're going to take Maria's question, Maria Ripps on podcasting. Is it reasonable to assume that Spotify is looking to structure most of its podcast deals in a similar fashion to what was reported in the Wall Street Journal regarding Joe Rogan? And how is the company thinking about the trade-off between engagement and advertising revenue or profitability by deemphasizing exclusivity?

好的。我們將回答最後一個問題，我們將回答瑪麗亞的問題，瑪麗亞·里普斯關於播客的問題。是否可以合理地假設 Spotify 正在尋求以與《華爾街日報》有關喬·羅根 (Joe Rogan) 的報道類似的方式構建其大部分播客交易？公司如何透過淡化排他性來考慮參與度和廣告收入或獲利能力之間的權衡？

Yes. I think, Maria, I sort of already mentioned some of these things. But -- generally speaking, we had multiple strategies in podcasting. It wasn't just all about exclusivities even if that got most of the -- sort of press headlines. And what we've been able to see here is as we've been learning over these past few years, is that while some of these exclusivity deals worked, generally, it wasn't aligned with what the creator wanted. The creator wants to have broader audience. And I feel like with these new deals that we've been making for most of 2023, we are in a position where we're actually better aligned with the creator. We can both deliver the growth rate, and we are equally incentivized to drive audience growth and, of course, then also drive revenue growth because we both share in that upside.

是的。我想，瑪麗亞，我已經提到了其中一些事情。但是，總的來說，我們在播客方面有多種策略。這不僅僅是排他性，即使這佔據了大部分媒體的頭條新聞。我們在這裡看到的是，正如我們在過去幾年中所了解的那樣，雖然其中一些排他性交易有效，但總的來說，它與創作者想要的東西並不相符。創作者希望擁有更廣泛的受眾。我覺得，透過 2023 年大部分時間我們一直在進行的這些新交易，我們實際上處於與創作者更好的一致狀態。我們都可以實現成長率，我們同樣有動力推動觀眾成長，當然，也可以推動營收成長，因為我們都分享了這個優勢。

So I think the team was able to innovate and create a much smaller structure and that is the path we see going forward on more and more of our deals and I think even on the MAU side, it will be on a healthy basis because we're in a very different position than we were just a few years ago in podcasting because today, Spotify is, in many cases, the #1 podcasting player already.

因此，我認為團隊能夠創新並創建一個更小的結構，這就是我們在越來越多的交易中看到的前進道路，我認為即使在月活躍用戶方面，這也將是一個健康的基礎，因為我們'我們在播客領域的地位與幾年前截然不同，因為今天，Spotify 在許多情況下已經是排名第一的播客播放器。

So exclusivity makes sense when you're the smaller playing trying to gain scale. When you're the bigger player, the additional value of the exclusivity is far smaller than it is about being aligned. And it feels also that from a value's point of view, this is better aligned with who we are at Spotify, too.

因此，當您規模較小、試圖擴大規模時，排他性就有意義。當你是更大的玩家時，排他性的附加價值遠遠小於它的一致性。而且從價值的角度來看，這也更符合 Spotify 的定位。

Great. Thanks, Maria, and thanks, everyone, for your questions. That's going to conclude our question-and-answer session today, and I'd like to turn it back over to Daniel for some closing remarks.

偉大的。謝謝瑪麗亞，也謝謝大家提出的問題。我們今天的問答環節就到此結束，我想把它轉交給丹尼爾做一些結束語。

Yes. Thanks, Bryan.

是的。謝謝，布萊恩。

The long-term opportunity for Spotify is strong. Hopefully, you heard that now during the call and during the Q&A session. And we will continue to innovate in big and small ways to deliver for our listeners and the artists, creators and authors on our platform and make no mistake that we will continue to make bold bets, invest and seize on the opportunities when they make sense. But hopefully, it's clear now with much more disciplined approach going forward.

Spotify 的長期機會是巨大的。希望您現在在電話會議和問答環節中聽到了這一點。我們將繼續以大大小小的方式進行創新，為我們平台上的聽眾以及藝術家、創作者和作者提供服務，毫無疑問，我們將繼續大膽下注、投資並抓住有意義的機會。但希望現在情況已經很清楚了，未來會採取更嚴格的方法。

Thanks, everyone, for joining us today.

謝謝大家今天加入我們。

Okay. Great. And that concludes today's call. A replay will be available on our website and also on the Spotify app under Spotify earnings call replays.

好的。偉大的。今天的電話會議到此結束。我們的網站以及 Spotify 應用程式上的 Spotify 財報電話會議重播將提供重播。

Thanks, everyone, for joining.

謝謝大家的加入。

This concludes Spotify's Fourth Quarter 2023 Earnings Call and Webcast. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

Spotify 2023 年第四季財報電話會議和網路廣播到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。