(SPOT) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to Spotify's Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Call and Webcast. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded.

早安，歡迎參加 Spotify 2023 年第三季財報電話會議和網路廣播。 （操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次電話會議正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to Bryan Goldberg, Head of Investor Relations. Thank you. Please go ahead.

我現在想將電話轉給投資者關係主管 Bryan Goldberg。謝謝。請繼續。

Thanks, operator, and welcome to Spotify's Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. Joining us today will be Daniel Ek, our CEO; and Paul Vogel, our CFO. We'll start with opening comments from Daniel and Paul and afterwards, we'll be happy to answer your questions. Questions can be submitted by going to slido.com, S-L-I-D-O.com and using the code #Spotify Earnings Q3 '23. Analysts can ask questions directly into Slido, and all participants can then vote on the questions they find the most relevant. If for some reason, you don't have access to Slido, you can e-mail investor relations at ir@spotify.com and we'll add in your question.

感謝營運商，歡迎參加 Spotify 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。今天加入我們的是我們的執行長 Daniel Ek；和我們的財務長保羅·沃格爾。我們將從 Daniel 和 Paul 的開場評論開始，然後我們很樂意回答您的問題。可以透過造訪 slido.com、S-L-I-D-O.com 並使用代碼 #Spotify Earnings Q3 '23 提交問題。分析師可以直接向 Slido 提問，然後所有參與者都可以對他們認為最相關的問題進行投票。如果由於某種原因，您無法訪問 Slido，您可以向投資者關係部發送電子郵件至 ir@spotify.com，我們將添加您的問題。

Before we begin, let me quickly cover the safe harbor. During this call, we'll be making certain forward-looking statements, including projections or estimates about the future performance of the company. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results could materially differ because of factors discussed on today's call, in our shareholder deck and in filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

在我們開始之前，讓我快速介紹一下安全港。在這次電話會議中，我們將做出某些前瞻性陳述，包括對公司未來表現的預測或估計。這些陳述基於當前的預期和假設，存在風險和不確定性。由於今天的電話會議、我們的股東資料以及向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中討論的因素，實際結果可能會存在重大差異。

During this call, we'll also refer to certain non-IFRS financial measures. Reconciliations between our IFRS and non-IFRS financial measures can be found in our shareholder deck in the financial section of our Investor Relations website and also furnished today on Form 6-K.

在本次電話會議中，我們也將提及某些非 IFRS 財務指標。我們的 IFRS 和非 IFRS 財務指標之間的調節可以在我們投資者關係網站財務部分的股東資料中找到，並且今天也在表格 6-K 中提供。

And with that, I'll turn it over to Daniel.

有了這個，我會把它交給丹尼爾。

All right. Hey, everyone, and thank you so much for joining us. I hope you've had the opportunity to review our shareholder deck. Bottom line, it's a really exciting time at Spotify, and I'm super pleased at how the business is performing. It was a truly stellar quarter and one that clearly illustrates that we're making great progress against the goals that we laid out for you at our 2022 Investor Day.

好的。大家好，非常感謝您加入我們。我希望您有機會查看我們的股東資料。總而言之，這對 Spotify 來說是一個非常令人興奮的時刻，我對公司的業務表現非常滿意。這是一個真正出色的季度，清楚地表明我們在實現 2022 年投資者日為您設定的目標方面取得了巨大進展。

Q3 was our second largest quarter ever for MAU net addition. And as we look ahead to the end of the year, you'll also see that we're forecasting to hit another big milestone, reaching more than 600 million monthly active users at the end of the year, and this puts us well on our way to reaching more than 1 billion global users by 2030. And to put that number into context, 15 years ago this month, Spotify went live in France, Finland, Norway, Spain, Sweden and the U.K. It's been a wild ride.

第三季是我們有史以來每月活躍用戶淨增量第二高的季度。當我們展望今年年底時，您還會發現我們預計將達到另一個重大里程碑，到年底月活躍用戶數將超過 6 億，這使我們在到2030 年，全球用戶數量將超過10 億。將這個數字放在實際背景中，15 年前的這個月，Spotify 在法國、芬蘭、挪威、西班牙、瑞典和英國上線。這是一次瘋狂的旅程。

Next, let's turn to the strength of our subscriber growth. We walked into 2023 thinking we would do just over 20 million in net subscriber adds for the full year, but we're actually on track to deliver 30 million, which is a significant beat from where we thought we would be. In fact, this will be the second biggest full year gain in net subs additions since going public.

接下來，讓我們來看看用戶成長的力量。進入 2023 年，我們原以為全年淨用戶增加量將略高於 2000 萬，但實際上我們預計將實現 3000 萬，這比我們的預期大幅領先。事實上，這將是自上市以來全年淨新增人數的第二大增幅。

This momentum is especially significant when you put it in the context of the price increases that went into effect in Q3. And as we previously shared, because of our confidence in our product and our ever-expanding content offering, we felt the timing was right to raise prices across more than 50 markets. I know some of you wondered how we'd weather these increases, so I'm really pleased to report that this went as well as we'd hope, even modestly exceeding our expectations.

當你把它放在第三季生效的價格上漲的背景下時，這種勢頭尤其重要。正如我們之前所分享的，由於我們對我們的產品和不斷擴大的內容提供充滿信心，我們認為現在是在 50 多個市場提高價格的正確時機。我知道你們中的一些人想知道我們如何應對這些成長，所以我真的很高興地報告，一切進展順利，甚至超出了我們的預期。

All of this sustained growth is a testament to the exceptional value Spotify continues to deliver globally. And with our new focus on operational efficiencies, we managed to achieve this with reduced marketing costs. The essence of our business model is to deliver unparalleled value to our user base through an ever-improving consumer and creator experience.

所有這些持續成長都證明了 Spotify 繼續在全球範圍內提供的卓越價值。隨著我們對營運效率的新關注，我們成功地透過降低行銷成本實現了這一目標。我們商業模式的本質是透過不斷改善的消費者和創作者體驗為我們的用戶群提供無與倫比的價值。

This is coupled with every now and then expanding our ecosystem through new verticals to deliver even more value. And this, of course, nicely segues into the groundbreaking audio books offering for premium subscribers that we announced a few weeks ago. So not only will our expansion into this category super charts the growth of the audio books format but it also will drive engagement and reduced churn, which further enhances our value proposition. And this, of course, gives us more flexibility for our business. And while it's still too early to see the impact in our numbers, initial signs from subscribers in the U.K. and Australia are incredibly positive as we bring them more content to discover.

再加上時不時地透過新的垂直領域擴展我們的生態系統，以提供更多價值。當然，這很好地延續了我們幾週前宣布的為高級訂閱者提供的突破性有聲讀物。因此，我們向這一類別的擴張不僅將推動有聲書格式的成長，而且還將提高參與度並減少客戶流失，從而進一步增強我們的價值主張。當然，這為我們的業務提供了更大的靈活性。雖然現在要看到我們的數字所產生的影響還為時過早，但英國和澳洲訂閱者的初步跡象非常積極，因為我們為他們帶來了更多內容供他們發現。

In the first 2 weeks since launch, premium subs in these 2 markets are loving the breadth of titles and have already listened to over 28% of the catalog. They're flocking to fiction, memoirs, sci-fi and fantasy. And I can't wait to see what U.S. subscribers gravitate towards when we launch there soon.

自推出後的前 2 週內，這兩個市場的優質訂閱者都喜歡各種曲目，並且已經收聽了超過 28% 的曲目。他們湧向小說、回憶錄、科幻小說和奇幻小說。我迫不及待地想看看當我們很快在美國推出時，美國訂戶會受到什麼吸引。

In terms of how all of this flows down to the underlying fundamentals of the business, including, of course, revenue and gross margin, I'll turn it over to Paul to provide more detail, and then Bryan will open it up for Q&A.

至於所有這些如何轉化為業務的基本面，當然包括收入和毛利率，我將把它交給保羅提供更多細節，然後布萊恩將開放它進行問答。

Great. Thanks, Daniel, and thanks, everyone, for joining us. I'd like to add a bit more color on the quarter and then touch upon the broader performance of the business and our outlook.

偉大的。謝謝丹尼爾，也謝謝大家加入我們。我想為該季度增添更多色彩，然後談談更廣泛的業務表現和我們的前景。

Q3 is a very strong quarter. MAU grew by 23 million to 574 million, and we added 6 million net subscribers finishing at 226 million. Both MAU and subscriber growth continued to be well above our historical trend and outperformed forecast.

第三季是一個非常強勁的季度。 MAU 成長了 2,300 萬，達到 5.74 億，淨訂閱用戶增加了 600 萬，最終達到 2.26 億。月活躍用戶數和用戶成長量繼續遠高於我們的歷史趨勢，並且超出了預測。

On the revenue front, we grew 11% year-on-year to 3.4 billion during the quarter. Importantly, our FX-neutral growth was 17% and accelerated 300 basis points versus the prior quarter's result, reflecting the early effects of the new pricing and accelerated advertising results.

在營收方面，本季我們年增 11% 至 34 億美元。重要的是，我們的匯率中性成長為 17%，比上一季的業績成長了 300 個基點，反映了新定價和加速廣告績效的早期影響。

Turning to gross margin. Gross margin of 26.4% was above guidance by 40 basis points due primarily to favorability in our music business.

轉向毛利率。 26.4% 的毛利率比指引高出 40 個基點，這主要是因為我們的音樂事業受到青睞。

Moving to operating expenses. Growth in the quarter was lower than forecast due mainly to lower-than-expected personnel and related costs as well as marketing spend. When combined with our better gross profit, we achieved an operating profit of EUR 32 million in the quarter. We believe this is an important inflection point for the business as we start to see the benefits of our focus on speed and efficiency and progress towards delivering on the profitability targets we laid out to you at our Investor Day last summer.

轉向營運費用。該季度的成長低於預期，主要是由於人員和相關成本以及行銷支出低於預期。加上更好的毛利，我們本季實現了 3,200 萬歐元的營業利潤。我們相信，這對業務來說是一個重要的轉捩點，因為我們開始看到我們專注於速度和效率的好處，以及在實現去年夏天投資者日向您制定的盈利目標方面取得的進展。

Finally, free cash flow was positive EUR 216 million in Q3.

最後，第三季自由現金流為正 2.16 億歐元。

Looking ahead to the fourth quarter, we are forecasting 601 million MAU an increase of EUR 27 million from Q3 and 235 million subscribers, an increase of 9 million over Q3. This has us adding about 112 million MAU for all of 2023, which is nearly 60% above our 4-year historical trend and adding 30 million subscribers for the year, which is 12% above the historical trend.

展望第四季度，我們預計每月活躍用戶數將達到 6.01 億，比第三季增加 2,700 萬歐元，訂閱用戶數將達到 2.35 億，比第三季增加 900 萬。這使得我們在 2023 年全年增加了約 1.12 億月活躍用戶，比我們 4 年歷史趨勢高出近 60%，全年訂閱用戶增加了 3000 萬，比歷史趨勢高出 12%。

2023 should finish with the highest net additions for MAUs and the second largest for subscribers in company history, but actually the largest if you exclude the impact of Russia. We are also forecasting EUR 3.7 billion in total revenue, a gross margin of 26.6% and an operating profit of approximately EUR 37 million.

2023 年的每月活躍用戶淨增加量應該是公司歷史上最高的，訂閱用戶淨增加量應該是公司歷史上第二高的，但如果排除俄羅斯的影響，實際上是最大的。我們也預期總收入為 37 億歐元，毛利率為 26.6%，營業利潤約 3,700 萬歐元。

Turning to revenue. We are forecasting a 300 basis point headwind to growth given the strengthening of the euro relative to the dollar. Excluding this effect, our constant currency revenue will be closer to EUR 3.8 billion, reflecting our expectation for accelerating currency-neutral growth to 20% year-on-year versus the 17% growth we delivered in Q3. This acceleration is aided by a full quarter benefit of the price increases we announced in Q3.

轉向收入。鑑於歐元相對美元走強，我們預計成長將面臨 300 個基點的阻力。排除這一影響，我們的固定貨幣收入將接近 38 億歐元，反映出我們對貨幣中性同比增長加速至 20% 的預期，而第三季度我們實現了 17% 的增長。我們在第三季宣布的漲價帶來了整個季度的收益，這有助於這種加速。

In sum, we are very pleased with how we're tracking into year-end. While it's too early to give guidance on 2024, I do want to point out that we are confident in our path and expect another year of meaningful progress towards delivering on our profitability goals for the business.

總而言之，我們對年底的進展感到非常滿意。雖然現在對 2024 年給出指導還為時過早，但我確實想指出，我們對自己的道路充滿信心，並期望在實現我們的業務盈利目標方面又取得有意義的進展。

And with that, I'll hand things over to Bryan for Q&A.

接下來，我會將事情交給 Bryan 進行問答。

Thanks, Paul. Again, if you've got questions, please go to slido.com, #Spotify Earnings Q3 '23. We're going to be reading the questions in the order they appear in the queue with respect to how people vote up their preference for questions. And our first question today is going to come from Matt Thornton on efficiency. Daniel and Paul, you've been successful in wringing out cost efficiencies across marketing, personnel and podcasts. Do you feel the business is at steady state now on the cost side? Or do you see more opportunity?

謝謝，保羅。再次強調，如果您有疑問，請造訪 slido.com，#Spotify Earnings Q3 '23。我們將按照問題出現在隊列中的順序閱讀問題，以了解人們如何投票選出他們對問題的偏好。今天我們的第一個問題將來自馬特桑頓（Matt Thornton）關於效率的問題。丹尼爾和保羅，你們已經成功地提高了行銷、人員和播客的成本效率。您認為目前業務在成本上是否處於穩定狀態？還是你看到更多的機會？

Yes. I'll start, and maybe Paul can fill in. Yes, we as we walked into the year, just to level set and remind everyone, we talked about having a great product but also needing to become a great business and to prove that out to investors. That's been very much the focus for Paul and myself and the rest of the management team throughout this year. And I think you're really starting to see this nicely being proved out with the delivery of this quarter's results. But it really is 2 parts here. One is the thing that I said in my opening remarks, which is we are focused, as always, on providing great consumer experience and creator experience. And that is what allows that top line growth to then translate into that business side. But the new part of the Spotify modus operandi is our focus on efficiencies. And we're starting to see some leverage here coming into play, but this is the state going forward.

是的。我先開始，也許保羅可以補充。是的，我們在進入這一年的時候，只是為了設定水平並提醒大家，我們談到了擁有一個偉大的產品，但也需要成為一個偉大的企業並證明這一點給投資者。這一直是保羅、我以及管理團隊其他成員今年關注的重點。我認為您確實開始看到這一點在本季度業績的交付中得到了很好的證明。但這裡確實是兩個部分。一是我在開場白中所說的，我們一如既往地專注於提供出色的消費者體驗和創作者體驗。這就是讓收入成長轉化為業務方面的原因。但 Spotify 運作方式的新部分是我們對效率的關注。我們開始看到一些槓桿作用正在發揮作用，但這就是未來的狀態。

Paul and myself and the rest of the management team is constantly looking at how we can make improvements. And we're constantly finding new ways to bring more efficiencies out of the business. So I'm pleased with the progress so far. We've seen some improvements, but you should expect us to continue to look for more improvements going forward because that's just our modus operandi.

保羅和我以及管理團隊的其他成員不斷研究如何進行改進。我們不斷尋找新的方法來提高業務效率。所以我對迄今為止的進展感到滿意。我們已經看到了一些改進，但您應該期望我們繼續尋求更多改進，因為這只是我們的做法。

Yes. And I would just add, we're obviously very pleased to see some of the initial success with an operating profit in Q3 and guidance for operating profit in Q4 as well. And our expectations are now that we will consistently be in the black moving forward. Obviously, you never know what can happen in any 1 quarter, but we feel good that we're on a different trajectory, and we've hit an inflection point with respect to profitability of the business.

是的。我想補充一點，我們顯然非常高興看到第三季營業利潤的一些初步成功以及第四季度營業利潤的指導。我們現在的期望是，我們將始終保持獲利。顯然，你永遠不知道任何一個季度會發生什麼，但我們感覺很好，因為我們正處於不同的軌道上，而且我們已經達到了業務盈利能力的轉折點。

Great. Next question is going to come from Justin Patterson, a related question on efficiency. Daniel, you began the year restructuring business units with the goal of greater efficiency and product velocity. As we head towards 2024, where do you see the next areas to be more efficient while driving innovation? And Paul, how should we think about expense, puts and takes of audiobooks scaling?

偉大的。下一個問題將來自賈斯汀·帕特森，一個與效率相關的問題。丹尼爾，您在今年開始重組業務部門，目標是提高效率和產品速度。當我們邁向 2024 年時，您認為在推動創新的同時，接下來哪些領域可以提高效率？保羅，我們該如何考慮有聲書擴展的費用、投入和支出？

Yes. As I mentioned in my last response, it's very much a focus, I think, across the base. And maybe just to highlight one example. So as the product and technology teams are working on this focus on efficiency, everyone at the company is tasked at it, everyone has their own deliverables.

是的。正如我在上次回覆中提到的，我認為這是整個基地的一個焦點。也許只是為了強調一個例子。因此，當產品和技術團隊致力於專注於效率時，公司的每個人都有任務，每個人都有自己的可交付成果。

So we constantly end up finding ways where, for instance, we are on the compute side on our infrastructure side finding from engineers that there are better utilization patterns doing that, and they're able to save expenses as we're doing that.

因此，我們不斷地尋找方法，例如，我們在基礎設施方面的計算方面從工程師那裡發現有更好的利用模式來做到這一點，並且他們能夠在我們這樣做時節省開支。

And that's then improving on the streaming delivery cost that we're ending up having. And this is just one example where it's not that we're looking for top-down initiatives as much as we're seeing a lot of bottom-up initiatives that are adding up to the numbers.

這將改善我們最終的串流傳輸成本。這只是一個例子，我們並不是在尋找自上而下的舉措，而是看到許多自下而上的舉措正在不斷增加。

You saw it also very clearly in our marketing spend. We were able to deliver better top line numbers but with less spend because we're now focused on this efficiency goal and I think that's the power of the Spotify team and the work that everyone is doing. But that also gives Paul and myself great comfort in that there's great opportunities out there as long as we get the teams focused on it.

您在我們的行銷支出中也非常清楚地看到了這一點。我們能夠以更少的支出實現更好的營收數字，因為我們現在專注於這個效率目標，我認為這就是 Spotify 團隊和每個人正在做的工作的力量。但這也給保羅和我自己帶來了極大的安慰，因為只要我們讓團隊專注於它，就會有很好的機會。

Yes. And then with respect to kind of the audiobook side of the question, let me take a step back for a second. If you look at 2023, we said from the start of the year that we expected to see gross margins sequentially improve every quarter of 2023. Obviously, we have the benefit of knowing what we're planning to do throughout the year. And so we knew all the initiatives we're going to come in play, both the price increases and the launch of audio books. And so all that played into the commentary you had that we would see that sequential growth. And we're glad that, that's what we actually were able to realize and expected to realize in 2023.

是的。然後，關於問題的有聲書方面，讓我退後一步。如果你看看 2023 年，我們從年初就說過，我們預計 2023 年每個季度的毛利率都會連續改善。顯然，我們有利於了解我們全年計劃做什麼。因此，我們知道我們將要採取的所有舉措，包括價格上漲和有聲書的推出。因此，所有這些都影響到您的評論，即我們將看到連續成長。我們很高興，這就是我們實際上能夠實現並期望在 2023 年實現的目標。

As you look into 2024, we expect to see a continued improvement in our gross margin trends and a continued improvement in our operating income trends as well. Obviously, there's some investment when it comes to the audio books business but there's nothing about the launch that will derail our progress on the gross margin side or our progress on the operating income side are probably just as important, our progress on the free cash flow side.

展望 2024 年，我們預期毛利率趨勢將持續改善，營業收入趨勢也將持續改善。顯然，在有聲書業務方面有一些投資，但該業務的推出不會影響我們在毛利率方面的進展，或者我們在營業收入方面的進展可能同樣重要，我們在自由現金流方面的進展邊。

So hopefully, everyone noticed, we did EUR 200 million of positive free cash flow in Q3. We feel good about the free cash flow trajectory as well in the business. And so we're very encouraged with kind of how 2023 is forecast to end, and we're very optimistic with respect to the early indications of where we think 2024 will be.

希望每個人都注意到，我們在第三季實現了 2 億歐元的正自由現金流。我們對業務的自由現金流軌跡也感覺良好。因此，我們對 2023 年的結束預測感到非常鼓舞，並且對 2024 年的早期跡象非常樂觀。

All right. Next question from Rich Greenfield on our subscribers. Is this your first-ever North American subscriber loss? And is that due to churn from the price hike? And how does this inform future price hikes? And did premium churn subs shift to the free ad-supported tier?

好的。里奇·格林菲爾德提出了關於我們訂閱者的下一個問題。這是您第一次北美用戶流失嗎？這是因為價格上漲造成的流失嗎？這對未來的價格上漲有何影響？優質流失訂閱者是否已轉向免費廣告支援層？

Yes. So the first part of your question, we actually did not lose subs in North America. So I think what's going on here is the math is -- your coming up with a number that's based on 3 rounded numbers, right? So you've got a prior quarter number, a current quarter number that are both rounded as well as a percentage number that's rounded. So we actually grew subscribers in North America in line with expectations.

是的。所以你問題的第一部分，我們實際上並沒有在北美失去潛艇。所以我認為這裡發生的事情是數學問題——你想出了一個基於 3 個四捨五入的數字的數字，對嗎？因此，您得到了上一季的數字、當前季度的數字（四捨五入後的數字）以及百分比數字（四捨五入後的數字）。因此，我們在北美的訂閱用戶數量實際上符合預期。

Actually, all of our regions performed well from a subscriber perspective and relative to expectations, it was pretty broad-based across the board. So we did not lose any subscribers in North America. It was actually a good quarter there. And so I think it's just rounding. And if that's unclear, for anyone, please reach out to the IR team after and we can kind of walk through how that works.

事實上，從訂閱者的角度來看，我們所有的地區都表現良好，並且相對於預期，整體範圍相當廣泛。所以我們沒有失去北美的任何訂戶。這實際上是一個很好的季度。所以我認為這只是四捨五入。如果任何人對此不清楚，請稍後聯繫 IR 團隊，我們可以逐步介紹其工作原理。

And then with respect to the price increase, as Daniel mentioned in his opening, we feel really good about how that went down. We have -- when you think about a price increase, there's really the 2 components you're always going to be focused on. One is anything that elevates churn. And then two, anything that impacts the gross intake in any way. And so what was great was the churn was right in line with expectations. And we talked about in the past when we've raised prices that churn had never been that material, and it was similar to this go around. And then I guess even just as importantly, we outperformed on the gross intake side, which is one of the reasons why we outperformed on overall subs. So churn from the price increase is right in line with expectations and then gross intake even better than expected, which led to the outperformance.

然後，關於價格上漲，正如丹尼爾在開場白中提到的那樣，我們對價格上漲的下降感到非常滿意。當您考慮價格上漲時，我們確實會始終關注兩個組成部分。其中之一是任何會增加客戶流失的因素。第二，任何以任何方式影響總攝取量的事情。很棒的是，流失率完全符合預期。我們過去談到，當我們提高價格時，客戶流失從來沒有那麼嚴重，這與這次的情況類似。然後我想同樣重要的是，我們在總攝取量方面表現出色，這也是我們在整體潛艇方面表現出色的原因之一。因此，價格上漲帶來的流失量與預期相符，而且總攝取量甚至好於預期，這導致了表現優於預期。

All right. Another question from Justin Patterson on AI. Daniel, Spotify has made a lot of progress with AI through DJ and the AI voice translation pilot. Could you talk about how you view these products affecting listener engagement and creating opportunities for creators? In turn, what type of monetization opportunities does this create for Spotify?

好的。賈斯汀·帕特森 (Justin Patterson) 關於人工智慧的另一個問題。 Daniel，Spotify 透過 DJ 和 AI 語音翻譯試點在 AI 方面取得了巨大進展。您能否談談您如何看待這些影響聽眾參與度並為創作者創造機會的產品？反過來，這又為 Spotify 創造了哪些類型的獲利機會？

Yes. I think the primary way we look at AI is that -- and certainly, through the tools that you're mentioning, it is about increasing engagement with the service by creating even more compelling value. And the primary way we think about that is, of course, leveraging AI to create or augment already amazing content. So a great example would be through AI DJ, which mimics some of the behavior on radio, that's -- that companion that provides context around the music you're hearing and X is doing an amazing job in providing context, cultural context all of the things that you love radio for, but now coming through a personalized DJ for you. I think that nicely scales what AI can do. It can personalize things. It can contextualize things. It can provide this thing at a scale that would be impossible to do by humans.

是的。我認為我們看待人工智慧的主要方式是——當然，透過你提到的工具，它是透過創造更引人注目的價值來增加對服務的參與度。當然，我們考慮的主要方式是利用人工智慧來創建或增強已經令人驚嘆的內容。因此，一個很好的例子是透過AI DJ，它模仿廣播中的一些行為，即，該伴侶可以為您所聽到的音樂提供背景信息，而X 在提供所有背景信息、文化背景方面做得非常出色。您喜歡廣播的東西，現在由個性化 DJ 為您提供。我認為這很好地擴展了人工智慧的能力。它可以使事物個性化。它可以將事物置於情境中。它可以以人類無法做到的規模提供這種東西。

And then on the AI voice translation part, it is a meaningful one because if you fundamentally think about Spotify, the more content we have on the service the -- generally better engagement we start seeing because the more likely it is that we're able to serve up something that consumers love. And so the AI voice translation thing is amazing, both for creators and consumers. For consumers, especially in non-English language content, they generally have a lot less content to consume. And for many other creators, this is an ability for them to be able to go with their content through many more geographies that they currently aren't able to penetrate at all. And so this is one of those things where you've heard me say this before, but the win thing is what we look for at Spotify is something that's great for creators and great for consumers. It's usually great for Spotify, and this is exactly that.

然後在人工智慧語音翻譯部分，這是一個有意義的部分，因為如果你從根本上考慮Spotify，我們在該服務上擁有的內容越多，我們開始看到的參與度通常就越高，因為我們更有可能能夠提供消費者喜歡的東西。因此，人工智慧語音翻譯對於創作者和消費者來說都是令人驚嘆的。對於消費者來說，尤其是非英語內容的消費者，他們通常可以消費的內容要少得多。對於許多其他創作者來說，這是一種能力，使他們能夠將自己的內容傳播到目前根本無法滲透的更多地區。所以這是你以前聽過我說過的事情之一，但我們在 Spotify 所尋求的勝利是對創作者和消費者都有利的東西。它通常對 Spotify 來說很棒，而這正是如此。

And then the primary way you should think about these initiatives, it does create greater engagement. And that greater engagement means we reduce churn. And that, of course, greater engagement also means we produce more value for consumers. And that value to price ratio is what then allows us to raise prices like we did this past quarter with great success. And we're constantly focused on improving that ratio all the time by just adding more and more and more value for consumers. And I think that's what you can see with our top line growth coming into the year with MAUs growing very nicely. And then eventually, segueing itself into better subscriber growth, which then, of course, leads to better revenue growth. And so it's kind of this trifecta of things, but it really starts with improving the consumer and creator value proposition, which we're focused on and AI can be a real enabler there.

然後你應該考慮這些措施的主要方式是，它確實創造了更大的參與。更大的參與度意味著我們可以減少客戶流失。當然，更大的參與度也意味著我們為消費者創造更多價值。這種價值價格比使我們能夠提高價格，就像我們在上個季度取得巨大成功一樣。我們始終致力於透過為消費者增加越來越多的價值來提高這一比率。我認為這就是您在今年我們的營收成長中所看到的，每月活躍用戶數成長得非常好。最終，用戶數量將得到更好的成長，當然，這也會帶來更好的收入成長。所以這是三重奏，但它實際上是從改善消費者和創造者的價值主張開始的，這是我們關注的焦點，而人工智慧可以成為那裡真正的推動者。

All right. Another question from Matt Thornton on growth drivers. What are the key incremental drivers of growth as we look into 2024? For example, can marketplace grow faster than the core business? Do you expect audiobooks to move the needle in 2024? Is ticketing and merch at all material yet? What about a full global rollout of a new UI, AI DJ or anything else?

好的。馬特·桑頓提出了另一個關於成長動力的問題。展望 2024 年，成長的主要增量驅動因素是什麼？例如，市場成長速度能否快於核心業務？您預計有聲書會在 2024 年取得重大進展嗎？票務和商品還重要嗎？在全球範圍內全面推出新的 UI、AI DJ 或其他內容呢？

Yes. Maybe I'll start, and then Paul can chime in. So I think for 2024, just to set the expectation, it is about delivering on the core. And I think, hopefully, investors should be able to see now that the core has plenty left to offer when it comes to growth. And we feel really good about the growth we've had in 2023, and we can nicely see that segueing back into 2024. And that's, of course, delivering against all of the things we already have.

是的。也許我會開始，然後保羅可以插話。所以我認為對於 2024 年，只是為了設定期望，它是關於交付核心。我認為，希望投資者現在應該能夠看到，核心在成長方面還有很多東西可以提供。我們對 2023 年的成長感到非常滿意，並且我們可以很好地看到這種情況會持續到 2024 年。當然，這是我們已經擁有的所有事情的基礎。

So our advertising business on one hand, seeing more scale there, which will drive more efficiencies. You mentioned marketplace. We're heading very nicely there, too on the business side, and we're offering more and more products to people on the marketplace side, which is seeing better and better results relative to all the other marketing spend that labels and artists teams are encountering, which, of course, is a great testament for -- meaning more and more artists will keep on investing with us there.

因此，一方面我們的廣告業務規模更大，這將提高效率。您提到了市場。在業務方面，我們的進展也非常順利，我們正在向市場方面的人們提供越來越多的產品，相對於唱片公司和藝術家團隊的所有其他行銷支出，我們看到了越來越好的結果。相遇，當然，這是一個很好的證明——意味著越來越多的藝術家將繼續與我們一起投資。

And then on the product side, you're right in pointing out the new UI. It is being fully rolled out. So we're seeing great results with that. AI DJ, it's been rolled out to many -- more countries already, but that's the English language one. So you should definitely expect to see local versions of the AI DJ to allow for even more engagement. But that engagement, as I mentioned in my previous response, allows for more flexibility for the business. That allows for either more top line growth through a better proposition at a low price, which will mean we'll grow even faster or we have the ability, of course, if we produce a great value to raise prices again to keep that value and price ratio at a good clip.

然後在產品方面，您指出新的使​​用者介面是正確的。它正在全面鋪平。所以我們看到了很好的結果。 AI DJ，它已經推廣到更多國家，但這是英文版本。因此，您絕對應該期待看到本地版本的 AI DJ，以實現更多參與。但正如我在先前的回覆中提到的，這種參與可以為企業帶來更大的靈活性。這可以透過更好的低價主張實現更多的收入成長，這意味著我們會成長得更快，或者我們有能力，當然，如果我們產生巨大的價值，再次提高價格以保持該價值，並且性價比不錯。

So there will be plenty of opportunities in 2024 for the core business to produce. And that's what you should expect. We are making great progress on ticketing and merch and all of these other fronts, too, but they are not yet material drivers, so I don't want any investor to have that expectation. But long term, they will be and we're excited about them. But for 2024, it's about delivering on the core, which has plenty more to give.

所以2024年核心業務會有大量的機會產生。這就是你應該期待的。我們在票務和商品以及所有其他方面也取得了巨大進展，但它們還不是物質驅動因素，所以我不希望任何投資者抱持這樣的期望。但從長遠來看，它們將會成為現實，我們對此感到興奮。但到 2024 年，重點是交付核心，而核心還有很多東西可以提供。

Yes. And I would just add real quickly to Daniel's point. Obviously, we'll have almost 3 full quarters of the price increase from a growth perspective on the revenue side impacting 2024. And then as Daniel mentioned, advertising business has improved throughout 2023. So we're hoping that advertising could continue to be a driver in 2024 as well.

是的。我只想快速補充丹尼爾的觀點。顯然，從影響2024 年收入方面的成長角度來看，我們將經歷近3 個完整季度的價格上漲。然後，正如Daniel 所提到的，廣告業務在2023 年全年都有所改善。因此，我們希望廣告業務能夠繼續成為2024 年也將成為司機。

I forgot to mention, by the way, on the audiobook side, which you asked about as well. So yes, we do think audiobooks will be helpful to the 2024 results as well, but it will be early days, of course. It's still in early product development -- early launch. And the primary focus is to bring it out in more markets.

順便說一句，我忘了提及有聲書方面，您也問過這一點。所以，是的，我們確實認為有聲書也會對 2024 年的結果有所幫助，但當然，這還為時過早。它仍處於早期產品開發階段——早期發布階段。主要重點是將其推向更多市場。

Great. Another question from Justin Patterson. This one is on subscription pricing. Spotify is now delivering a lot more value through product innovation and the inclusion of audiobooks. It also seems like churn was minimal from recent price increases. So given these dynamics, how is your approach towards pricing as a lever changing versus what we've observed in the past?

偉大的。賈斯汀·帕特森的另一個問題。這是訂閱定價。 Spotify 現在透過產品創新和有聲書的納入提供了更多的價值。從最近的價格上漲來看，客戶流失率似乎也很小。因此，考慮到這些動態，與我們過去觀察到的相比，您將定價作為槓桿的方法有何變化？

Well, I think that there's 2 paths to mention, one was before this prior quarter and one is going forward. And we talked about this when we did raise prices that are -- we were adding a leg to the stool. So again, to kind of bring everyone back and put context. We had plenty of growth drivers. We can grow in the market by keeping the price relatively low and grow top line that grows the market and grows our revenue.

嗯，我認為有兩條路徑值得一提，一條是在上一季之前，一條是未來。當我們確實提高價格時，我們就談到了這一點——我們為凳子加了一條腿。再次，讓每個人都回來並了解背景。我們有充足的成長動力。我們可以透過保持相對較低的價格來在市場上發展，並增加收入，從而擴大市場並增加我們的收入。

We can, of course, again, increase the engagement even further and have more advertising. That's another way to grow our business. And then we have the third lever, of course, which is to grow through price increases. We hadn't up until that point, used the lever of price increases to a great extent, we did. I feel really good about what we learned there. So it's definitely part now of the arsenal of tools we can deploy to keep growing the business. And I think you should expect us to use that when we see the appropriate dynamics.

當然，我們可以再次進一步提高參與度並投放更多廣告。這是發展我們業務的另一種方式。當然，我們還有第三個槓桿，那就是透過價格上漲來成長。直到那時，我們還沒有在很大程度上利用價格上漲的槓桿，而我們確實做到了。我對我們在那裡學到的東西感覺非常好。因此，它現在絕對是我們可以部署以保持業務成長的工具庫的一部分。我認為當我們看到適當的動態時，您應該期望我們使用它。

But the primary thing, again, just to level set with investors, why you're seeing the top line growth the way you are is because we're providing an amazing value to consumers. That is the primary thing we are focused on to keep on delivering amazing value. And then when we get to that amazing value, then, of course, we have more flexibility and we can choose to increase prices to get that value to price ratio in the right balance. So we definitely have a lot more opportunities going forward, and we feel really confident given what we've learned in this price increase.

但最重要的是，再次與投資人溝通，為什麼你會看到現在的收入成長，是因為我們為消費者提供了驚人的價值。這是我們繼續提供驚人價值的首要任務。然後，當我們達到那個驚人的價值時，當然，我們有更大的靈活性，我們可以選擇提高價格，以獲得適當的平衡價值與價格比。因此，我們未來肯定有更多的機會，鑑於我們在這次漲價中學到的經驗，我們感到非常有信心。

All right. Next question is going to come from Benjamin Black on the gross margin. You've guided to sequentially improving gross margins for all of 2023. When we look forward to 2024, given the price increases and improving profitability at podcasts, should a similar gross margin progression hold true?

好的。下一個問題將來自本傑明·布萊克（Benjamin Black）關於毛利率的問題。您已指導我們在 2023 年全年逐步提高毛利率。當我們展望 2024 年時，考慮到播客的價格上漲和盈利能力的提高，類似的毛利率進展是否應該成立？

Yes. So I'd say a couple of things here. One is for first, on the podcasting side, yes, we've seen the improvements in the podcasting business, and we talked about how that's been a drag on our gross margins, and we expect it to soon reach breakeven and then become something that's actually additive to gross profit. So we're on track on the podcasting side there, and that should continue to be helpful into 2024. Same with the music side in terms of incremental gross margins there as well.

是的。所以我想在這裡說幾件事。首先，在播客方面，是的，我們已經看到了播客業務的改善，我們談到了這對我們毛利率的拖累，我們預計它很快就會達到盈虧平衡，然後成為實際上是增加毛利的。因此，我們在播客方面正步入正軌，這應該會在 2024 年繼續發揮作用。就增量毛利率而言，音樂方面也是如此。

When you think about the audiobooks side of it, there's obviously some investment anytime you launch a new business. But again, as I said earlier, we feel really good about continuing to have a nice progression in gross margins into 2024. We'll give more specific guidance on the next earnings call.

當您考慮有聲書方面時，顯然每當您推出新業務時都會有一些投資。但正如我之前所說，我們對 2024 年毛利率繼續取得良好進展感到非常滿意。我們將在下一次財報電話會議上提供更具體的指導。

The only thing is when you think about sequentials, we do tend to have some seasonality in Q1 versus Q4. Some years, it's more material than others. Obviously, advertising, it tends to be one of the slower quarters from an advertising perspective. But we are expecting gross margins to be improved in 2024, and we feel really good about hitting all the targets we talked about at the Investor Day and the significant progress we've already made to date.

唯一的問題是，當您考慮序列時，我們確實傾向於在第一季與第四季度有一些季節性。有些年份，它比其他年份更物質。顯然，從廣告的角度來看，廣告往往是成長較慢的季度之一。但我們預計 2024 年毛利率將有所改善，我們對實現投資者日討論的所有目標以及迄今為止已經取得的重大進展感到非常高興。

All right. Next question is from Doug Anmuth on audiobooks. Can you talk about the cost structure and the economics of audiobooks? How should we think about the impact to gross margin in the fourth quarter and into 2024? And what gives you confidence in adoption by subscribers?

好的。下一個問題來自 Doug Anmuth 關於有聲書的問題。能談談有聲書的成本結構和經濟學嗎？我們該如何看待第四季和 2024 年毛利率的影響？是什麼讓您對訂閱者的採用充滿信心？

Yes. So I guess I'll just kind of read out what I said, which is, obviously, there's always going to be -- there's some costs whenever you launch a new product, but you'll see that the gross margins are up Q3 to Q4. And as I said a couple of times now, we do expect gross margins to be up again in 2024, and we expect to continue to see that nice progress we've made on the gross margin side and the operating profit side into 2024. And the confidence on adoption of subscribers. I'll start, maybe Daniel has some thoughts here.

是的。所以我想我會讀一下我所說的，顯然，每當你推出新產品時，總是會有一些成本，但你會看到第三季的毛利率上升到Q4。正如我多次說過的那樣，我們確實預計 2024 年毛利率將再次上升，並且我們預計到 2024 年我們將繼續看到我們在毛利率和營業利潤方面取得的良好進展。對訂閱者採用的信心。我開始吧，也許丹尼爾在這裡有一些想法。

But I think as Daniel mentioned, it's early days, but we feel really good about the first couple of weeks to month in the markets we've launched in. And we just believe it's going to be a great product. It's going to open up more authors to more consumers. And what we've seen in the past is when we enter a business, the business becomes bigger, the podcasting business is a much bigger global business because Spotify is a part of that business now. And we think we're going to have the same benefit on the audiobook side, which will be great for authors and great for consumers.

但我認為正如丹尼爾所提到的，現在還為時過早，但我們對我們推出的市場的前幾周和每月感覺非常好。我們相信這將是一個偉大的產品。它將向更多消費者開放更多作者。我們過去看到的是，當我們進入一個行業時，該業務會變得更大，播客業務是一個更大的全球業務，因為 Spotify 現在是該業務的一部分。我們認為我們將在有聲書方面獲得同樣的好處，這對作者和消費者都有好處。

Yes. And we feel great, again, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, with the adoption in U.K. and Australia. And just as a reminder to investors, we are planning to launch in the U.S. this coming winter as well. So you're definitely going to see us expand audiobooks. And already with this initial launch, it is positive. It's early days.

是的。正如我在開場白中提到的，隨著英國和澳洲的採用，我們再次感覺很棒。提醒投資者，我們也計劃在今年冬天在美國推出。因此，您肯定會看到我們擴展有聲書。從最初的發布來看，這是積極的。現在還早。

But we're encouraged with what we're seeing. And the most important thing is when you think about the consumers that are trying out the experience, they're loving it and they're finding it a really natural part of the Spotify experience and a great value add. And that speaks to this earlier point we made about sort of consistently improving the experience by adding more things for creators and consumers alike. And then every now and then adding these verticals that just step -- make step changes in the value proposition that we're doing.

但我們對所看到的感到鼓舞。最重要的是，當你想到正在嘗試這種體驗的消費者時，他們會喜歡它，並發現它是 Spotify 體驗中非常自然的一部分，並且具有巨大的附加價值。這說明了我們先前提出的觀點，即透過為創作者和消費者添加更多東西來持續改善體驗。然後時不時地添加這些垂直領域，以逐步改變我們正在做的價值主張。

Okay. Next question from Rich Greenfield on marketing efficiency. You accelerated user and revenue growth while cutting marketing spend. Can you help us understand what's enabled this dynamic and whether you believe it's sustainable into 2024?

好的。里奇·格林菲爾德的下一個問題是關於行銷效率的。您加快了用戶和收入的成長，同時削減了行銷支出。您能否幫助我們了解是什麼促成了這種動態，以及您是否認為這種情況可持續到 2024 年？

Yes, Rich, I would really make it a testament to this focus on efficiency as we talked about. Again, it is marvelous when the team focuses on something here at Spotify. We tend to achieve it. And when Paul and I kind of set that objective for the teams, what started happening was they started focusing a lot more on the performance marketing mix, some of the initiatives that we were doing. We were pulling back from other things.

是的，里奇，我真的想讓它證明我們所討論的對效率的關注。同樣，當 Spotify 團隊專注於某些事情時，這真是太棒了。我們傾向於實現它。當保羅和我為團隊設定這個目標時，他們開始更專注於績效行銷組合，以及我們正在採取的一些措施。我們從其他事情上退縮了。

We were doubling down on others. And we started seeing top line holding up and to even accelerating at a lower marketing expense. And we've seen this trend now play out for a few quarters. Initially, I was kind of skeptical whether that would be able to keep going. But with the recent learnings, it seems very possible that is the case and that we are simply increasing our rate of learning at a great pace across the marketing team and that I think is a very positive sign going into 2024.

我們在其他方面加倍努力。我們開始看到營收保持穩定，甚至以較低的行銷費用加速成長。我們已經看到這種趨勢已經持續了幾個季度。最初，我有點懷疑這種情況是否能夠持續下去。但根據最近的經驗教訓，情況似乎很有可能是這樣，我們只是在整個行銷團隊中快速提高學習速度，我認為這是進入 2024 年的一個非常積極的跡象。

All right. Another one from Rich Greenfield on advertising. Advertising growth constant currency accelerated to 24% from low to mid-teens in the past couple of quarters. What's driving that acceleration? And how are you feeling about the time period ability to drive advertising towards 20% of overall revenues compared to 13% today?

好的。里奇·格林菲爾德（Rich Greenfield）的另一篇關於廣告的文章。過去幾個季度，以固定匯率計算，廣告成長從十幾歲到中十幾歲加速至 24%。是什麼推動了這種加速？您對將廣告收入佔總收入的 20%（目前為 13%）這段期間的能力有何看法？

Yes. So the quarter just saw a nice acceleration both on the music side and the podcasting side on constant currency. So it was across the board. We're doing a good job of selling. We're improving the tools or improving the automation side of the world. And honestly, we're doing a good job of selling across both music and podcasting. So having both of them in the ecosystem is really, really helpful, which I think we've talked about before in the past. And so that's been a lot of the driving growth. I don't really have any update to give you in terms of 20%. It's not necessarily a target we shoot for. I think what we've said in the past is we believe over time that if advertising continues to grow, it could become 20% or more. But we feel good about the acceleration on the advertising side in Q3 and the trends, kind of how they've improved throughout the year.

是的。因此，本季音樂方面和播客方面在貨幣不變的情況下都出現了良好的加速。所以這是全面的。我們的銷售工作做得很好。我們正在改進工具或改進世界的自動化。老實說，我們在音樂和播客方面的銷售都做得很好。因此，將它們都納入生態系統確實非常有幫助，我想我們過去已經討論過這一點。因此，這在很大程度上推動了成長。關於 20%，我確實沒有任何更新可以提供給您。這不一定是我們射擊的目標。我認為我們過去所說的是我們相信隨著時間的推移，如果廣告繼續增長，它可能會達到 20% 或更多。但我們對第三季廣告方面的加速和趨勢感到滿意，就像他們全年的改進一樣。

Okay. Benjamin Black on audiobooks. Audiobooks monetization is via overage charges. But how do you think about medium-term monetization of this offering? Will there be additional tiers with discrete payments for access? And at your Investor Day, you highlighted 40%-plus gross margins for audiobooks. What's the bridge from this offering to hitting those targets?

好的。本傑明·布萊克的有聲書。有聲書的貨幣化是透過超額收費來實現的。但您如何看待該產品的中期貨幣化？是否會有額外的等級以及離散支付存取權限？在投資者日，您強調有聲書的毛利率超過 40%。這項服務與實現這些目標之間的橋樑是什麼？

Yes, I'll start, and maybe Paul can chime in. So I think, first and foremost, it's very early days on the audiobook side, but we're encouraged with what we're seeing. So you're right in that this is included in the premium offering. It is one of the benefits, obviously, that our members are getting and that, in turn, gives us more flexibility as a business that we talked about.

是的，我會開始，也許保羅可以插話。所以我認為，首先也是最重要的是，有聲書方面還處於早期階段，但我們對所看到的感到鼓舞。所以你說得對，這包含在高級產品中。顯然，這是我們的會員獲得的好處之一，反過來，這也為我們所談論的企業提供了更大的靈活性。

Just as a reminder, however, the offering available for consumers is 15 hours a month. For consumers that hit that base or subscribers that hit that base of 15 hours a month, there is the ability to top up. So there's already today the ability for discrete payments where consumers can upgrade and we're already seeing consumers doing that in ways we probably wouldn't have imagined where some consumers are heavily upgrading and being really heavy audiobooks listeners already day 1. But obviously, the base is very small.

不過，提醒一下，消費者每月可以享受的服務時間為 15 小時。對於達到該基數的消費者或達到每月 15 小時基數的訂閱者，可以進行儲值。因此，今天已經有了消費者可以升級的離散支付能力，我們已經看到消費者以我們可能無法想像的方式做到這一點，其中一些消費者在第一天就開始大量升級並成為真正的有聲讀物聽眾。但顯然，基地很小。

So it's impossible for us to say where that leads us long term. But the ability exists, and I think it will be a part of our business, but we also, of course, think that being part of the subscription is what the real value is because it will expand the market of audiobooks. And we think consumers -- it's a format that consumer loves and that creates more value, which, of course, gives us more flexibility for our business.

所以我們不可能說這會導致我們長期走向何方。但這種能力是存在的，我認為它將成為我們業務的一部分，但我們當然也認為成為訂閱的一部分才是真正的價值，因為它將擴大有聲書的市場。我們認為消費者——這是一種消費者喜愛的形式，可以創造更多價值，當然，這也為我們的業務提供了更大的靈活性。

You want to talk as well about the bridge between audiobooks and the 40% we talked about?

您還想談談有聲書和我們談到的 40% 之間的橋樑嗎？

Yes. So yes, we're not getting into specifics of kind of how the monetization is going to work right now. But I think what I would go back to saying, which I think I've said a couple of times now, is there's obviously always an investment when you launch a new product. We don't think it's anything that's going to be a material impact our 2024 gross margin trajectory. And we think that there's -- it's not a long window until we see audiobooks really being additive to Spotify from a bottom line perspective. And we'll have more to talk about it moving forward.

是的。所以，是的，我們現在不會詳細討論貨幣化的運作方式。但我想我要回去說的是，我想我已經說過好幾次了，當你推出新產品時，顯然總是會有投資。我們認為這不會對我們 2024 年的毛利率軌跡產生重大影響。我們認為，從獲利角度來看，距離我們看到有聲書真正成為 Spotify 的補充，時間並不長。我們將進一步討論它的進展。

All right. Next question from Doug Anmuth on podcasting. How should we think about the timing for achieving podcast gross margin profitability? And what are the biggest opportunities to improve podcast cost structure going forward?

好的。道格·安姆斯 (Doug Anmuth) 提出了關於播客的下一個問題。我們該如何思考播客實現毛利率獲利的時機？未來改善播客成本結構的最大機會是什麼？

Yes. So let me take the second part first. So I think as Daniel has talked about, for us, it's really a number of things. One is we're just continuing to look to try and be the most efficient we possibly can as a business. And so that's going to mean investing where we think it makes sense to invest and it's going to mean thinking about how we can be strategic in areas we can be more strategic. And so on the podcasting side, you've already seen us this year sort of rightsize parts of the business where we thought it made sense.

是的。那麼讓我先來看第二部分。所以我認為正如丹尼爾所說，對我們來說，這確實是很多事情。一是我們只是繼續努力，盡可能提高企業的效率。因此，這意味著在我們認為有意義的地方進行投資，並且意味著思考我們如何在可以更具策略性的領域中進行策略性投資。因此，在播客方面，您今年已經看到我們對我們認為有意義的業務部分進行了調整。

But moving forward, we'll continue to invest, but we also think we're going to continue to get lots of efficiencies and that's through being smarter about where we spend that podcasting budget and also continue to grow the advertising on top of it. So we feel like we're on track. I think we gave at the Investor Day sort of a 1- to 2-year time line to breakeven on podcasting. We're right in line with that time line. We should actually get to breakeven in podcasting pretty soon and we feel really good about the trajectory of the podcasting trends having gone from a pretty big drag a year ago to something that's a pretty minimal drag to something that should be positive to gross profit in the pretty short term.

但展望未來，我們將繼續投資，但我們也認為我們將繼續提高效率，這是透過更明智地了解播客預算的支出以及在此基礎上繼續增加廣告來實現的。所以我們感覺我們正在步入正軌。我認為我們在投資者日給了 1 到 2 年的時間線來實現播客的收支平衡。我們正好符合那個時間線。事實上，我們應該很快就能在播客領域實現收支平衡，我們對播客趨勢的軌跡感到非常滿意，它已經從一年前的一個相當大的拖累變成了一個很小的拖累，而應該對毛利有正面的影響。相當短期的。

Yes. And maybe just, Doug, as an added reminder, unlike, say, the music business, which has more of a variable cost structure, podcasting has more of a fixed cost basis and a variable too. But the biggest proponent so far has been the fixed cost base structure. So what helps there is obviously, if you take down the fixed cost base structure, but the other thing that helps us more scale. So if you bring in more advertising dollars across that, you'll start seeing gross margins improving. So both of those things have been true. We've been reining back on some of the spending, but we have also increased the revenues on podcasting, too.

是的。道格，作為補充提醒，與音樂產業不同，後者的成本結構更多是可變的，播客更多的是固定成本基礎和可變成本。但迄今為止最大的支持者是固定成本基礎結構。因此，顯然，如果你取消固定成本基礎結構，那麼有幫助的就是，但另一件事可以幫助我們擴大規模。因此，如果你在這方面投入更多的廣告費用，你會開始看到毛利率的增加。所以這兩件事都是真的。我們一直在控制一些支出，但我們也增加了播客的收入。

Okay. Next question from Benjamin Black on operating expenses. You obviously made some hard decisions on headcount reductions this year. When looking forward to fourth quarter and 2024, how should we be thinking about the pace of operating expense and headcount growth. And also, is there more room to tighten up expenses?

好的。本傑明·布萊克的下一個問題是關於營運費用的。顯然，今年你們在裁員方面做出了一些艱難的決定。當展望第四季和 2024 年時，我們應該如何考慮營運費用和員工人數成長的速度。另外，還有更多收緊開支的空間嗎？

Yes. So I'm not going to give any 2024 guidance yet. We'll do that on the next quarter. So really, what I'll do is kind of reiterate what we said already, which is as a company and as a business, we want to be as efficient as we possibly can. And so that's something that is not a onetime thing, some of the changes we made in 2023, we're not sort of onetime in nature. This is the way we're running the business. We've talked about -- we believe we have a best-in-class product, and we want to become a best-in-class business as well. And so we'll continue to look whether it's 2024 or '25 or '26, about how we can run the business as efficiently and effectively as we possibly can. And so that's just how we think about it moving forward. And hopefully, our expectation is that will translate into kind of hitting all the margin targets we laid out at the Investor Day.

是的。因此，我目前不會給出任何 2024 年指引。我們將在下個季度這樣做。所以，實際上，我要做的就是重申我們已經說過的話，即作為一家公司和一家企業，我們希望盡可能提高效率。所以這不是一次性的事情，我們在 2023 年做出的一些改變，本質上並不是一次性的。這就是我們經營業務的方式。我們已經討論過——我們相信我們擁有一流的產品，並且我們也希望成為一流的企業。因此，無論是 2024 年、25 年或 26 年，我們將繼續專注於如何盡可能有效率地經營業務。這就是我們對未來發展的看法。希望我們的期望能夠轉化為達到我們在投資者日所製定的所有利潤目標。

Okay. It looks like Ben's got another one here on music economics. Without getting into the details from your price negotiations with the labels, I'm curious to hear how the win-win played out? Is it related to better economics on the ad-supported side, marketplace commitments, more flexibility to introduce new tier options by bundling services like audiobooks or anything else?

好的。看來本還有另一本關於音樂經濟學的文章。在不了解您與唱片公司價格談判的細節的情況下，我很好奇雙贏的結果如何？它是否與廣告支援方面更好的經濟效益、市場承諾、透過捆綁有聲書或其他服務等服務引入新層級選項的更大靈活性有關？

Yes. Well, as you know, Ben, we don't comment on the specifics around our negotiations with any rights holders. But what I can say in general terms is, and I've used this analogy before, when we renegotiate with our partners, this is something that's constantly ongoing pretty much every year. It is kind of trade -- it's like a trade agreement being renegotiated.

是的。嗯，如你所知，本，我們不會對與任何權利持有者談判的具體細節發表評論。但我可以籠統地說的是，我以前用過這個類比，當我們與合作夥伴重新談判時，這種情況幾乎每年都會持續進行。這是一種貿易——就像重新談判的貿易協定。

There are lots of things in the agreement, lots of things that the labels want from Spotify, lots of things that Spotify wants from labels, including clearing up things like small things like lyrics, how it works, what the payment terms are, et cetera, new market entries, just a whole host of things. So it's not one thing. It is a lot of different things, including some of the things that you're talking about.

協議中有很多東西，唱片公司希望從 Spotify 得到很多東西，Spotify 希望唱片公司得到很多東西，包括澄清諸如歌詞之類的小事情，它是如何運作的，付款條件是什麼，等等、新的市場進入，等等。所以這不是一回事。這是很多不同的事情，包括你正在談論的一些事情。

The end goal of those things and why I talk about it as a win-win though, is that I think the investor community focuses too much on this being a sort of one side win the other side has to lose. This is not how we view it. I've said this before, but I will repeat again. What has happened in the history of Spotify is that both sides win.

這些事情的最終目標以及為什麼我將其視為雙贏的原因是，我認為投資者社群過於專注於這是一種一方獲勝而另一方必須失去的事情。我們不是這樣看待它的。我以前已經說過這​​一點，但我會再說一次。 Spotify 歷史上發生的事情是雙方雙贏。

So as the business grows, it also helps the labels and publishers greatly. And in doing so, we all get better economics with more scale. And so this is very much what both us and the partners are expecting going forward. We are very much doing this in symbiosis to drive the continued development of the music business.

因此，隨著業務的成長，它也對唱片公司和出版商有很大幫助。透過這樣做，我們都能獲得更大規模的更好經濟效益。因此，這正是我們和合作夥伴對未來的期待。我們正在共生地這樣做，以推動音樂業務的持續發展。

We're not trying to sort of score small points. And then the big question you may ask then, well, how should we assume that gross margin will keep on improving. And a big part of that is by providing more services for the industry. We talked about marketplace as a great example. Just to reiterate the point. Today, it is very expensive for a label to market an artist in all the various channels that they're doing.

我們並不是想獲得小分。那麼您可能會問的一個大問題是，我們應該如何假設毛利率將持續改善。其中很大一部分是為行業提供更多服務。我們談到市場就是一個很好的例子。只是重申一下這一點。如今，對於一個唱片公司來說，透過他們正在做的各種管道推銷藝術家是非常昂貴的。

It's very hard through the changes that Apple and others made for tracking to happen. So it's very hard to attribute all the way through a stream, what's happening. Obviously, on the Spotify platform, we can do that directly from being at the point where people discover music to being at the place where people discover -- to then consuming that music, which, of course, drives an unparalleled consumer experience and unparalleled marketing experience.

蘋果和其他公司為實現追蹤所做的改變非常困難。因此很難對整個流中發生的事情進行歸因。顯然，在 Spotify 平台上，我們可以直接做到從人們發現音樂的地方到人們發現音樂的地方，然後消費音樂，這當然會帶來無與倫比的消費者體驗和無與倫比的營銷經驗。

That is a great way where we can help reduce the marketing cost for labels and obviously earn a share of that revenue back. That is why we're so excited about our gross margin projection. That was exactly what we said at 2018, and that is what is being played out in a pretty big way in our improved music gross margins as well. So it's not a sort of win-lose scenario. It is truly a win-win between us and the rights holders.

這是一個很好的方式，我們可以幫助降低標籤的行銷成本，並且顯然可以賺取部分收入。這就是為什麼我們對毛利率預測如此興奮。這正是我們在 2018 年所說的，這也是我們音樂毛利率提升的重要體現。所以這不是一種雙贏的局面。這確實是我們和權利人之間的雙贏。

Okay. Next question is going to come from Mike Morris on subscription ARPU. Your constant currency premium ARPU growth trend improved from negative 3% last quarter to negative 1% in this quarter. Can you share more detail on the drivers? What do you think is a normal amount of drag from product or market mix? And how much price related positive impact was there in third quarter? And how much is implied in your fourth quarter revenue guidance?

好的。下一個問題將來自 Mike Morris，關於訂閱 ARPU。您的固定貨幣溢價 ARPU 成長趨勢從上季度的負 3% 改善到本季的負 1%。您能分享更多有關驅動程式的詳細資訊嗎？您認為產品或市場組合的正常阻力是多少？第三季與價格相關的正面影響有多大？您的第四季營收指引隱含了多少內容？

Yes. So when you look at the ARPU trends, let's sort of take the product market mix. It's really been on the product side. We've continued to have just a slightly larger share on family plans quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year. So that's sort of the product mix, which has been sort of a very -- it's a small drag, but that's kind of where it's been.

是的。因此，當您查看 ARPU 趨勢時，讓我們看看產品市場組合。這確實是在產品方面。與上一季相比，與去年同期相比，我們在家庭計畫中所佔的份額仍然略高。這就是產品組合，這是一個非常小的阻力，但這就是它的現狀。

It's hard to guide where that's going to go if that's going to continue to increase or flatten out, but that's been the real reason of sort of the very kind of modest 1% or so, 1% to 2% impact on ARPU. And then -- there was a little bit of an impact from the price increase in Q3. We'll expect to see a much bigger impact in Q4.

如果這種情況繼續增加或趨於平緩，很難指導它會走向何方，但這就是對 ARPU 產生 1% 左右、1% 到 2% 的適度影響的真正原因。然後，第三季的價格上漲產生了一些影響。我們預計第四季會產生更大的影響。

So if you think about the price increase and then you think about the fact that the price increase hit about 75% of our revenue base. We expect the price increase to be a positive mid-single-digits ARPU benefit to Q4 -- FX neutral benefit.

因此，如果您考慮價格上漲，那麼您會想到價格上漲約占我們收入基礎的 75%。我們預計價格上漲將為第四季度帶來中個位數的 ARPU 收益——外匯中性收益。

Okay. Another question from Doug Anmuth on marketplace. How should we think about current marketplace growth relative to the approximate 40% year-on-year growth you realized in 2022?

好的。 Doug Anmuth 在市場上提出的另一個問題。相對於您在 2022 年實現的約 40% 的年成長，我們該如何看待當前的市場成長？

Yes. So I think as Daniel said, marketplace is one part of the equation and everything we've done. It has grown very nicely. We haven't given out specific numbers, but it continues to be a big driver of growth for us on the margin side. And it's really just about adding more value into the ecosystem.

是的。所以我認為正如丹尼爾所說，市場是方程式和我們所做的一切的一部分。它長得非常好。我們尚未給出具體數字，但它仍然是我們利潤成長的一大推動力。這實際上只是為生態系統增加更多價值。

Our marketplace only works if it's working for the labels. So if our label partners feel like they're benefiting from Marketplace, then we'll benefit as well. And so that's been the case. We expect it to be the case, and it has definitely been one of the components that's helped the music margin's improve.

我們的市場只有在適合標籤的情況下才能發揮作用。因此，如果我們的品牌合作夥伴覺得他們從 Marketplace 中受益，那麼我們也會受益。事情就是這樣。我們預計情況會如此，而且它絕對是幫助音樂利潤提高的因素之一。

Okay. Another one from Mike Morris. Again, on audiobooks, how much impact does audiobooks have on the fourth quarter gross margin guidance and what are the factors that drive audiobooks gross margin impact over time? What type of usage is required for the product to be accretive to gross margin?

好的。另一位來自麥克·莫里斯。再一次，關於有聲讀物，有聲書對第四季毛利率指引有多大影響？隨著時間的推移，推動有聲書毛利率影響的因素有哪些？產品需要什麼類型的使用才能增加毛利率？

Yes. So there is a small impact in Q4. As I said, anytime you launch a new product, there's going to be some investment there. But as I said, we continue to see gross margins up sequentially Q3 to Q4 and we expect them to improve again nicely in 2024 as well. It's hard to talk about the factors that drive over time because, as I said, as we -- as the business model evolves over time, we'll share more information on that and sort of same thing on the usage side.

是的。所以第四季的影響很小。正如我所說，每當你推出新產品時，都會有一些投資。但正如我所說，我們繼續看到第三季至第四季的毛利率連續上升，我們預計它們在 2024 年也將再次改善良好。很難談論隨著時間的推移而推動的因素，因為正如我所說，隨著商業模式隨著時間的推移而發展，我們將分享更多有關這方面的資訊以及使用方面的類似資訊。

I think for us, right now, what we're really trying to drive is how has this become another great product for Spotify? How does it continue to grow usage and engagement. And we know that when people interact with more than one part of Spotify they retain higher. They're more engaged. So we've seen it before in podcasting. People who use both music and podcasting, are more engaged. They spend more time on the service. They're lower churn, they retain higher. And our expectation is that audiobooks will be just one more factor that will help with all of that.

我認為對我們來說，現在我們真正想要推動的是它如何成為 Spotify 的另一個偉大產品？它如何繼續增加使用率和參與度？我們知道，當人們與 Spotify 的多個部分互動時，他們的保留率會更高。他們更加投入。所以我們之前在播客中已經看到過它。同時使用音樂和播客的人更加投入。他們花更多的時間在服務上。他們的流失率較低，留存率較高。我們的期望是，有聲書將成為有助於實現這一切的另一個因素。

Okay. We've got a question from Zach Morrissey on other cost of revenue. Can you share more color on what's driving the improvement in other cost of revenue? Is there opportunity for further improvement in 2024?

好的。扎克·莫里西 (Zach Morrissey) 向我們提出了有關其他收入成本的問題。您能否分享更多推動其他收入成本改善的因素？ 2024年還有進一步改善的機會嗎？

Yes. I mean, again, that's a lot of the stuff that is the blocking and tackling of just trying to become a more efficient business that over time we started to see some benefits. And so within that other cost of revenue, you've got cloud cost and streaming delivery costs, you've got customer service, you've got payment fees.

是的。我的意思是，再說一次，有很多事情是為了成為更有效率的企業而遇到的阻礙和解決，隨著時間的推移，我們開始看到一些好處。因此，在其他收入成本中，你有雲端成本和串流媒體交付成本，你有客戶服務，你有支付費用。

So some of those just improve with scale, some of those improve with becoming more efficient and being smarter about how you run your business. And so we're always going to look for ways to optimize and become more and more efficient in those areas.

因此，其中一些只是隨著規模的擴大而改善，而另一些則隨著企業運作方式變得更加高效和更加明智而改善。因此，我們總是會尋找在這些領域進行最佳化並變得越來越有效率的方法。

But yes, that's part of some of the improvements you've seen is, again, just that greater focus on efficiency and making sure that our overall gross margins are improving. Obviously, the largest percentage of our gross margins has to do with royalties we pay to all of our different rights holders. But other cost of revenue is material, and we do focus on it, and it has been something that's improved throughout the year.

但是，是的，這是您所看到的一些改進的一部分，再次強調，更加重視效率並確保我們的整體毛利率正在提高。顯然，我們毛利率的最大比例與我們向所有不同權利持有人支付的特許權使用費有關。但其他收入成本是重要的，我們確實關注它，而且這一點全年都有所改善。

All right. And we've got time for one more question, and that's going to come from Maria Ripps on AI. It seems like across the space, generative AI-powered tools are improving advertiser creative and leading to better KPI performance. Is Spotify investing in generative AI to improve its products for advertisers? And if so, are you seeing any tangible improvements in ad performance?

好的。我們還有時間再問一個問題，這個問題將由瑪麗亞·里普斯 (Maria Ripps) 提出，關於人工智慧。在整個領域，人工智慧驅動的生成工具似乎正在提高廣告商的創意並帶來更好的 KPI 績效。 Spotify 是否投資產生人工智慧來為廣告主改進其產品？如果是這樣，您是否看到廣告效果有任何明顯的改進？

Yes. So there are plenty of things we're doing, generally speaking to AI and machine learning to improve our advertising products, everything from improving, of course, targeting and so forth. But as you're speaking to generative AI specifically, I think the biggest single thing we could do and that we're experimenting with and the teams are experimenting with is enabling more opportunities for advertisers creative to be created.

是的。因此，我們正在做很多事情，一般來說是透過人工智慧和機器學習來改進我們的廣告產品，當然包括改進目標等等。但當你具體談論產生人工智慧時，我認為我們可以做的最重要的一件事，以及我們正在試驗和團隊正在試驗的，就是為廣告商創造更多的創意機會。

So let me expand on that for a moment. So if you think about our advertising format relative to, say, many others, it lives in this kind of a nice segue on the one end where it is not as easy to produce as text ads, what you see on other platforms. And it's obviously not as hard to produce as a video ad. And so we think there's an enormous opportunity for us to apply generative AI to create really compelling audio advertisements for marketers.

讓我擴展一下這一點。因此，如果你考慮我們的廣告格式相對於其他許多廣告格式，它存在於一種很好的延續中，一方面它不像文字廣告那樣容易製作，就像你在其他平台上看到的那樣。而且製作起來顯然不像影片廣告那麼難。因此，我們認為我們有巨大的機會應用生成式人工智慧為行銷人員製作真正引人注目的音訊廣告。

And today, creating a great audio ad is something that's quite costly and quite expensive for marketeers to do. They obviously already make that investment when it comes to video because there's plenty of platforms that are available, but we're one of the few that offers audio ads in a big way on the scale that we're doing. So that's definitely a bit of a hurdle getting advertisers on there.

如今，製作出色的音訊廣告對行銷人員來說成本高昂。顯然，他們已經在視訊方面進行了投資，因為有很多可用的平台，但我們是少數幾個大規模提供音訊廣告的平台之一。因此，這絕對是吸引廣告商參與其中的障礙。

So what generative AI has the promise to do is, of course, to allow for that creative cost to come down. But not only that, but it allows you to scale that creative in unimaginable ways. So you can translate whatever creative you had lots of different languages. You can use the same voice actor, but instead of producing 1 or 2 ads, you can have 1,000 or 10,000 or even 100,000 ads that are individually created to each user that gets to hear this.

因此，生成式人工智慧的承諾當然是降低創意成本。不僅如此，它還允許您以難以想像的方式擴展創意。因此，您可以將您擁有的任何創意翻譯成多種不同的語言。您可以使用相同的配音演員，但您可以為每個聽到此訊息的用戶單獨創建 1,000 個或 10,000 個甚至 100,000 個廣告，而不是製作 1 或 2 個廣告。

So there's lots of possibilities that lowers the barrier to entry for marketers on the ad side using generative AI. And of course, there's also lots of opportunities of creating more compelling ads which means they will perform better for marketers as well. So we're really excited about it. But to level set this is early days, and we are definitely experimenting with the teams on how to do that. And I think it can be a real catalyst for our ads business going forward.

因此，使用生成式人工智慧有許多可能性可以降低廣告方面的行銷人員的進入門檻。當然，還有很多機會可以製作更具吸引力的廣告，這意味著它們對行銷人員來說也會表現得更好。所以我們對此感到非常興奮。但就設定水平而言，這還為時過早，我們肯定正在與團隊一起試驗如何做到這一點。我認為這可以成為我們廣告業務向前發展的真正催化劑。

But again, to caution everyone, it is early days and plenty more will happen in this space to bring costs down further and increase quality further, just throughout the explosion of all the tools from OpenAI to Google's tools to LAMA and all the other things that are happening across the ecosystem. So this is not just Spotify, but it's the entire ecosystem that's driving this development further.

但再次提醒大家，現在還處於早期階段，在從 OpenAI 到 Google 工具再到 LAMA 以及所有其他工具的爆炸式增長過程中，這個領域將會發生更多事情，以進一步降低成本並進一步提高質量。正在整個生態系中發生。因此，這不僅僅是 Spotify，而是整個生態系統正在進一步推動這項發展。

But I think we have a unique opportunity in our ad product to bring to bear something where you will, of course, see generative video ads, but I think that's a little bit further into the future than seeing generative audio ads in a big way. So we're excited about being able to bring that to market hopefully relatively soon and then playing a big part in 2024 and beyond.

但我認為我們的廣告產品有一個獨特的機會，可以讓你看到產生影片廣告，但我認為這比大規模看到產生音訊廣告的未來還要遙遠。因此，我們很高興能夠盡快將其推向市場，並在 2024 年及以後發揮重要作用。

Great. Thanks, Maria. And that's going to conclude our Q&A session on today's call. And so with that, I'm going to hand the floor back over to Daniel for some closing remarks.

偉大的。謝謝，瑪麗亞。今天電話會議的問答環節到此結束。因此，我將把發言權交還給丹尼爾做一些結束語。

All right. Well, thank you, Bryan. So in closing, as you can see, we're feeling very good about the progress and results. So lots of the actions we've taken over the last 12 months are really bearing fruit. And I feel very confident that we are well on our way of being both a great product and a great business. So thank you again for joining us. And as usual, please feel free to check out our For The Record podcast dropping later today.

好的。嗯，謝謝你，布萊恩。最後，正如您所看到的，我們對進展和結果感到非常滿意。因此，我們在過去 12 個月中採取的許多行動確實取得了成果。我非常有信心，我們正在成為一個偉大的產品和一個偉大的企業。再次感謝您加入我們。像往常一樣，請隨時查看我們今天晚些時候發布的 For The Record 播客。

Okay. And that concludes today's call. A replay will be available on our website and also on the Spotify app under Spotify earnings call replays. Thanks, everyone, for joining.

好的。今天的電話會議到此結束。我們的網站以及 Spotify 應用程式上的 Spotify 財報電話會議重播將提供重播。謝謝大家的加入。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。