Spotify Technology SA (SPOT) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to Spotify's Fourth Quarter 2022 Earnings Conference Call and Webcast. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Bryan Goldberg, Head of Investor Relations. Thank you. Please go ahead, Mr. Goldberg.

早安，歡迎參加 Spotify 2022 年第四季財報電話會議和網路廣播。 （操作員指示）提醒一下，本次電話會議正在錄音。現在我想將電話轉給投資人關係主管 Bryan Goldberg。謝謝。請繼續，戈德堡先生。

Thanks, operator, and welcome to Spotify's Fourth Quarter 2022 Earnings Conference Call. Joining us today will be Daniel Ek, our CEO; and Paul Vogel, our CFO. We'll start with opening comments from Daniel and Paul and afterwards, we'll be happy to answer your questions. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝接線員，歡迎參加 Spotify 2022 年第四季財報電話會議。今天與我們一起參加的是我們的執行長 Daniel Ek；以及我們的財務長 Paul Vogel。我們將首先由 Daniel 和 Paul 發表開場白，然後我們很樂意回答您的問題。 （操作員指示）

Before we begin, let me quickly cover the safe harbor. During this call, we'll be making certain forward-looking statements, including projections or estimates about the future performance of the company. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results could materially differ because of factors discussed on today's call, in our letter to shareholders and in filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

在我們開始之前，請允許我快速介紹安全港。在本次電話會議中，我們將做出某些前瞻性陳述，包括對公司未來績效的預測或估計。這些聲明是基於當前的預期和假設，但存在風險和不確定性。由於今天的電話會議、我們致股東的信函以及向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中討論的因素，實際結果可能會有重大差異。

During this call, we'll also refer to certain non-IFRS financial measures. Reconciliations between our IFRS and non-IFRS financial measures can be found in our letter to shareholders, in the financial section of our Investor Relations website and also furnished today on Form 6-K.

在本次電話會議中，我們也會參考某些非國際財務報告準則的財務指標。我們的 IFRS 和非 IFRS 財務指標之間的對帳可以在我們致股東的信函、投資者關係網站的財務部分中找到，也可以在今天的 6-K 表格中找到。

And with that, I'll turn it over to Daniel.

接下來，我將把發言權交給丹尼爾。

All right. Hey, everyone and happy new year and thanks for joining us. We had a great Q4 and ended 2022 strongly. Our user and subscriber numbers continue to climb, showing the value of our investments in the platform over the past few years. We're now in an even stronger competitive position, and I'm confident in our future prospects. And I'll let Paul fill in on more of the specific details. However, a notable call out in the quarter was our eighth annual Wrapped campaign, which was a big contributor to our Q4 success, and we broke all sorts of records and reached several all-time highs with an increase of over 30% in user engagements. Wrapped was trending all over social media, but it wasn't just about Wrapped. So by the end of the year, we had more than 100 million tracks on our platform and more than 5 million podcasts and more than 300,000 audio books being enjoyed by almost 0.5 billion listeners.

好的。嘿，大家新年快樂，感謝大家的加入。我們度過了出色的第四季度，並以強勁的勢頭結束了 2022 年。我們的用戶和訂閱者數量持續攀升，顯示了我們過去幾年對該平台的投資價值。我們現在的競爭地位更加強大，我對我們的未來前景充滿信心。我會讓保羅補充更多具體細節。然而，本季值得一提的是我們的第八次年度 Wrapped 活動，這對我們第四季度的成功做出了巨大貢獻，我們打破了各種記錄，並創下了多個歷史新高，用戶參與度增加了 30% 以上。 《Wrapped》在社群媒體上風靡一時，但其熱度遠不止於《Wrapped》。因此，到今年年底，我們的平台上已有超過 1 億首曲目、超過 500 萬個播客和超過 30 萬本有聲讀物，聽眾人數接近 5 億。

In 2021, we said that 2022 would be an investment year, and it was. And in light of our recent news on cost and staff reductions, I'm sure some of you are wondering if we believe that, that investment was a mistake. And the answer is, no and yes. I still believe it was the right call to invest, and I would do it again. So for instance, in the last 12 months, we grew our users substantially, enhanced our capabilities, developed a better product and brought more content to creators and users around the world. And we also made tremendous strides in setting Spotify Park from everyone else in our space.

2021 年，我們說過 2022 年將是投資年，事實也的確如此。鑑於我們最近有關成本和裁員的消息，我相信你們中的一些人想知道我們是否認為這項投資是一個錯誤。答案是，既不是，又是。我仍然相信這是正確的投資決定，而且我會再做一次。例如，在過去的 12 個月中，我們的用戶數量大幅增加，我們的能力得到增強，開發了更好的產品，並為世界各地的創作者和用戶帶來了更多內容。我們在設置 Spotify Park 方面也取得了巨大進步，超越了我們領域中的其他人。

In addition, my expectation was never that these investments would have a great impact in the short term, yet they have. But more importantly, for our share owners, I fully expect that they will continue to pay dividends in the months and years to come. But things change, and the macro environment has changed significantly in the last year. And in hindsight, I probably got a little carried away and overinvested relative to the uncertainty we saw shaping up in the market.

此外，我從未期望這些投資在短期內產生巨大影響，但事實確實如此。但更重要的是，對於我們的股東來說，我完全相信他們將在未來的幾個月和幾年繼續支付股息。但世事變幻，宏觀環境在去年發生了重大變化。回想起來，相對於我們看到的市場不確定性，我可能有點忘乎所以並且投資過度了。

So we are shifting to focus on tightening our spend and becoming more efficient. This remains consistent with the plan we outlined at Investor Day, but you should expect us to execute on it with even greater intensity given what I just said. However, to be clear, this doesn't mean we're changing our strategy. We will continue to work to build the platform of the future, and that will take investment in new opportunities that we outlined like podcasts and audio books. And if anything, thanks to our position in users and subs, this should allow us to both increase revenue per user over time as well as improve our stickiness with consumers even more.

因此，我們將重點轉向縮減開支和提高效率。這與我們在投資者日概述的計劃一致，但根據我剛才所說的，您應該期待我們以更大的力度執行該計劃。然而，需要明確的是，這並不意味著我們要改變我們的策略。我們將繼續努力建立未來的平台，這將需要對我們概述的播客和有聲讀物等新機會進行投資。而且，由於我們在用戶和訂閱者方面的地位，這應該可以讓我們隨著時間的推移增加每用戶收入，並進一步提高我們與消費者的黏性。

But going forward, we will do it with an intense focus on efficiency, and that marks a pretty big shift in how we will act.

但展望未來，我們將高度重視效率，這標誌著我們行動方式的重大轉變。

And to meet this objective, we are also rethinking how we operate. We've set up a new org structure that streamlines decision-making and prioritizes the speed and efficiency. 2023 marks a new chapter for us, but our commitment to achieving our goals remains the same. And I'm really optimistic about the direction we're headed in, and we'll continue to focus my efforts on guiding the long-term success of the company.

為了實現這一目標，我們也在重新思考我們的營運方式。我們建立了新的組織架構，簡化決策流程，並專注於速度和效率。 2023 年對我們來說標誌著一個新的篇章，但我們對實現目標的承諾始終如一。我對我們的發展方向非常樂觀，我們將繼續專注於引導公司的長期成功。

And with that, I'll hand it over to Paul to go deeper into the numbers, and then Bryan will open it up to the Q&A.

接下來，我將把時間交給保羅來深入探討這些數字，然後布萊恩將開始問答環節。

Thanks, Daniel, and thanks, everyone, for joining us. I'd like to add a bit more color on the quarter and then touch upon the broader performance of the business and our outlook.

謝謝丹尼爾，也謝謝大家加入我們。我想對本季的情況做些補充，然後談談業務的整體表現和我們的展望。

Let's start with Q4. User growth was very strong in the quarter. Total monthly active users grew to 489 million in Q4. This was 10 million ahead of guidance, up 33 million quarter-over-quarter and the largest Q4 net additions in our history.

讓我們從第四季開始。本季用戶成長非常強勁。第四季每月活躍用戶總數成長至 4.89 億。這比預期高出 1,000 萬，比上一季增加 3,300 萬，是我們史上第四季淨增量最大的一次。

Moving to premium. We finished the quarter with 205 million subscribers, 3 million ahead of guidance, thanks to broad-based strength across several regions, particularly Latin America. Our revenue grew 18% year-on-year to approximately EUR 3.2 billion in the quarter. Reported results were aided by a 600 basis point currency benefit. However, this was 200 basis points less than forecast. So while reported revenue was a touch below forecast, our organic growth on a currency-neutral basis modestly outperformed due primarily to advertising.

升級至高級版。本季度，我們的用戶總數達到 2.05 億，比預期多出 300 萬，這得益於多個地區（尤其是拉丁美洲）的廣泛實力。本季我們的營收年增 18%，達到約 32 億歐元。報告結果得益於 600 個基點的貨幣收益。但這比預測低了 200 個基點。因此，雖然報告的收入略低於預期，但以貨幣中性為基礎的有機成長略有好轉，這主要得益於廣告。

Turning to gross margin. Gross margin of 25.3% was above guidance by 80 basis points due primarily to lower podcast content spend, along with broad-based favorability in our core music business led by strength in Marketplace.

轉向毛利率。毛利率為 25.3%，高出預期 80 個基點，主要原因是播客內容支出減少，加上我們核心音樂業務在市場強勁表現的帶動下受到廣泛青睞。

Moving to operating expenses. Growth in the quarter was lower than forecast due mainly to currency movements and to a lesser degree, lower marketing spending. When combined with our better gross profit, our operating loss was ahead of guidance by EUR 69 million.

轉向營運費用。本季的成長低於預期，主要原因是貨幣波動，以及行銷支出減少（但程度較輕）。與我們更好的毛利相結合，我們的營業虧損超出預期 6900 萬歐元。

As we previewed last quarter, free cash flow was negative in Q4 due primarily to timing shifts around certain payments. However, we continue to generate roughly EUR 200 million in free cash flow on a trailing 12-month basis and we expect to be free cash flow positive for the full year of 2023.

正如我們在上個季度預測的那樣，第四季度的自由現金流為負，主要原因是某些付款的時間發生了變化。然而，我們在過去 12 個月中繼續產生約 2 億歐元的自由現金流，並且我們預計 2023 年全年的自由現金流將為正值。

Looking ahead, we are pleased with our momentum into 2023. When combined with our increased focus on speed and efficiency, we are confident in our ability to continue our double-digit top line trajectory in conjunction with improvements in profitability.

展望未來，我們對 2023 年的發展動能感到滿意。結合我們對速度和效率的更多關注，我們有信心繼續保持兩位數的營收成長軌跡，同時提高獲利能力。

With respect to first quarter guidance, we continue to see strong momentum in MAU and anticipate reaching 0.5 billion users by the end of Q1. On the subscriber front, we expect to add about 2 million net subscribers, bringing total subscribers to 207 million. We're also forecasting EUR 3.1 billion in total revenue, a gross margin of roughly 25%, excluding severance charges and an operating loss of EUR 194 million with the latter reflecting EUR 35 million to EUR 45 million in severance charges within our operating expenses.

就第一季的指引而言，我們繼續看到 MAU 的強勁勢頭，預計到第一季末將達到 5 億用戶。在用戶方面，我們預計將新增約 200 萬淨用戶，使總用戶數達到 2.07 億。我們還預測總收入為 31 億歐元，毛利率約為 25%，不包括遣散費，營業虧損為 1.94 億歐元，後者反映了我們營運費用中的 3,500 萬歐元至 4,500 萬歐元的遣散費。

While we no longer give full year guidance, full year 2023, we see strong growth for both users and subs. So we are feeling good about the momentum exiting 2022. Gross margin and operating expenses are expected to improve throughout the year, as we have mentioned previously, while free cash flow is expected to be in line with historic averages.

雖然我們不再提供 2023 年全年的全年預測，但我們看到用戶和訂閱者都將強勁成長。因此，我們對 2022 年即將實現的成長動能感到樂觀。正如我們之前提到的，預計毛利率和營運費用將在全年改善，而自由現金流預計將與歷史平均值持平。

Given many of the adjustments we made at the start of 2023, including our decision to reduce our workforce by 6%, we see our operating expenses growing slower with a material improvement in our operating loss compared with 2022. This is according to plan. As Daniel mentioned, we are entering a new area with even more focus.

考慮到我們在 2023 年初做出的多項調整，包括決定裁員 6%，與 2022 年相比，我們的營運費用成長速度將有所放緩，營運虧損也將大幅改善。這符合計劃。正如丹尼爾所提到的，我們正在進入一個更專注的新領域。

And with that, I'll hand things back to Bryan for Q&A.

說完這些，我將把問題交還給 Bryan 進行問答。

Thanks, Paul. (Operator Instructions) And our first question today is going to come from Matt Thornton on subscribers and pricing. Has Spotify seen any lift to subscribers from recent competitor price increases? If not, does this give Spotify increased confidence to take price? And what are the reasons, if any, Spot would not take price?

謝謝，保羅。 （操作員指示）我們今天的第一個問題來自 Matt Thornton，關於訂戶和定價。 Spotify 的訂閱用戶數量是否因最近競爭對手的漲價而有所提升？如果不是，這是否會讓 Spotify 更有信心接受這個價格？那麼，現貨不接受報價的原因是什麼呢？

I'll take this and feel free to chime in, Paul. So I think the most thing if we kind of up level this is our priority is to grow revenue as fast as we possibly can. So when we look at a market, there's generally two strategies we can do that. One of those strategies would be to grow the number of people that we can attract to join our platform. And the second strategy would be to increase the revenue per user that we already have on the platform.

我會接受這個並且歡迎你加入，保羅。因此，我認為，如果我們要提高水平，最重要的事情就是盡可能快地增加收入。因此，當我們觀察市場時，通常可以採取兩種策略。這些策略之一就是增加我們能夠吸引的加入我們平台的人數。第二個策略是增加我們平台上現有的每用戶收入。

So generally, our approach when we're early in a market is to try to grow the number of participants on the platform. And the usual way to do that is not to try to increase prices too early, but keep a competitive price that attracts the most amount of users onto the platform. And then as the market matures, then obviously, it will shift more so that most of the revenue growth comes from price increases.

因此，一般來說，當我們進入市場初期時，我們的方法是嘗試增加平台上的參與者數量。通常的做法是不要過早提高價格，而是保持有競爭力的價格，以吸引最多的用戶加入平台。然後隨著市場成熟，顯然它會發生更多轉變，大部分收入成長都來自價格上漲。

So to put things in context, in 2022, we increased our price point in more than 40 markets around the world. So it's definitely something that we're doing, and we're looking at it as a balanced portfolio approach where in some markets, we're selectively increasing prices because we're in a more mature place. In some markets, we're mostly focused on growth. So that's our general approach.

具體來說，2022 年，我們在全球 40 多個市場提高了價格。所以這絕對是我們正在做的事情，我們將其視為一種平衡的投資組合方法，在某些市場，我們會有選擇地提高價格，因為我們處於更成熟的階段。在某些市場，我們主要關注成長。這就是我們的整體方法。

And I don't have anything specific to announce at this point, but we are constantly discussing with our rights holder partners around various price increases that we would be doing. So we would always look at what's net beneficial to our business in growing the revenue and growing the profitability in each market we're in.

目前我還沒有任何具體消息可以宣布，但我們正在與我們的版權持有者合作夥伴討論我們將採取的各種價格上漲措施。因此，我們總是會考慮什麼對我們的業務有淨效益，以增加我們所在的每個市場的收入和獲利能力。

Yes. I would just add in terms of just the subs outperformance in Q4, it was pretty broad-based. So it was broad-based globally. It was broad-based by product. We had strength, family plan and Duo plan. We outperformance of EUR 3 million. There was outperformance in pretty much every region. So it was pretty broad-based. And we had success with our holiday campaign, which we do every December and Wrapped was a huge success as well, sort of driving traffic to Spotify. So overall, the overall subs outperformance was pretty broad based.

是的。我只想補充一點，就第四季的潛水艇表現而言，它的基礎相當廣泛。因此它在全球範圍內具有廣泛的基礎。按產品分類，它具有廣泛的基礎。我們有力量計劃、家庭計劃和 Duo 計劃。我們的業績超出預期 300 萬歐元。幾乎每個地區都表現出色。所以它的基礎相當廣泛。我們每年 12 月舉辦的假期活動取得了成功，《Wrapped》也取得了巨大的成功，為 Spotify 帶來了流量。因此整體而言，潛水艇的整體表現相當出色。

All right. Our next question is going to come from Michael Morris on music economics. Universal CEO recently called for a change to the streaming music business model, citing an increase in lower quality content, diverting economics away from artists. Do you believe this is happening on your platform? And what do you see as the path forward with your music label partners on this topic?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自邁克爾·莫里斯關於音樂經濟學的問題。環球音樂執行長最近呼籲改變串流音樂商業模式，理由是低品質內容的增加，將經濟利益從藝術家身上轉移開。您相信這正在您的平台上發生嗎？您認為您與唱片公司合作夥伴在這個問題上應該如何共同推進？

So first off, we have great relationships with all of our music partners and are in constant dialogues with them about their performance and our performance in all the markets around the world. But I think the most important thing to perhaps note is that much like other forms of media, one of the most interesting changes that's been happening is obviously, that people's music taste is becoming more personalized.

首先，我們與所有音樂合作夥伴都保持著良好的關係，並就他們的表現以及我們在全球所有市場的表現與他們保持著持續的對話。但我認為最重要的一點是，與其他形式的媒體一樣，正在發生的最有趣的變化之一顯然是人們的音樂品味變得更加個性化。

And as people's music taste is becoming more personalized, you're seeing two things happening. The number of artists that are mattering for users are increasing materially. And the other change is that unlike in the early areas of streaming, we're seeing a notable increase in local repertoire. So for instance, if you look at many of the local geographies now, you're seeing a lot of -- take France as an example, you're seeing a lot of French music actually being very impactful in Poland. You're seeing a lot of Polish music being very impactful as well.

隨著人們的音樂品味越來越個人化，你會看到兩件事發生。對使用者來說重要的藝術家的數量正在大幅增加。另一個變化是，與串流媒體早期領域不同，我們看到本地曲目顯著增加。舉例來說，如果你現在觀察許多地方地理，你會看到很多——以法國為例，你會看到很多法國音樂實際上在波蘭產生了很大的影響。你會看到很多波蘭音樂也具有很大的影響力。

So I think the -- there is a lot more artists that are mattering now than perhaps ever before. And obviously, the big sort of counter to that would be, does it mean that you can sustain yourself or is it more one-hit wonders? And I think you're seeing a little bit of both happening in the music industry at present moment. I think some of these trends are very powerful and very good, I think, for consumers with more choice and more artists making their way.

所以我認為——現在有影響力的藝術家比以往任何時候都多。顯然，對此最大的反駁是，這是否意味著你可以維持生計，還是這只是曇花一現？我認為目前音樂界中這兩種情況都有所發生。我認為其中一些趨勢非常強大且非常好，我認為，對於擁有更多選擇的消費者和更多藝術家來說，它們正在蓬勃發展。

And then you need to balance that, obviously, with having the ability to have sustainable artist careers on the back of that, too. And that's a constant dialogue that we're having with our label partners.

然後，顯然你需要平衡這一點，同時也要有能力在此基礎上擁有可持續的藝術生涯。這是我們與唱片公司合作夥伴不斷進行的對話。

But I would mostly say that most of what we're seeing is quite encouraging because of all the response that we're seeing from artists around the world and their ability to grow their audience.

但我主要想說的是，我們所看到的大部分情況都令人鼓舞，因為我們看到了來自世界各地藝術家的反響，以及他們擴大觀眾群的能力。

All right. Next question is going to come from Doug Anmuth on gross margin. As you move beyond the 2022 investment year, do you still expect gross margin to expand in 2023? And can you talk about the key drivers?

好的。下一個問題來自 Doug Anmuth，關於毛利率。隨著 2022 年投資年度的過去，您是否仍預期 2023 年毛利率會擴大？能談談主要驅動因素嗎？

So the short answer is yes. We think Q1 will be the low point in terms of gross margin for the year, with gross margin improving throughout 2023. So that's still the plan. When we look at Q1, in particular, sort of our core margin, when we look at sort of music and podcasting is improving. Some of the investments we made in the back half of the year are still slightly impacting Q1. We think those will sort of continue to moderate throughout the year, which will help -- partly help gross margin.

所以簡短的回答是肯定的。我們認為第一季將是今年毛利率的最低點，2023 年全年毛利率將會提高。所以這仍然是計劃。當我們看第一季時，特別是我們的核心利潤率，當我們看到音樂和播客正在改善時。我們下半年進行的一些投資仍對第一季產生輕微影響。我們認為這些因素將在全年持續緩和，這將在一定程度上有助於提高毛利率。

We've talked about the improvements in podcast gross margin as well as we expect that to get better throughout the year. So we do expect that Q1 will be the low point for gross margin, and we do expect for it to improve throughout the year, with hopefully a nice trajectory heading out of 2023.

我們已經討論了播客毛利率的提高，並且我們預計全年毛利率都會有所提高。因此，我們確實預計第一季將是毛利率的最低點，並且我們確實預計毛利率將在全年有所改善，並希望在 2023 年實現良好的發展軌跡。

All right. Next question comes from Mario Lu on operating income. You mentioned in the deck an expectation for meaningful improvement in operating income in fiscal '23 and beyond. That being said, is there a rough time line with regards to when we should expect overall operating income to reach breakeven?

好的。下一個問題來自 Mario Lu 關於營業收入的問題。您在演講中提到，預計 23 財年及以後的營業收入將有顯著改善。話雖如此，我們預期整體營業收入何時能達到收支平衡，是否有一個大致的時間表？

Yes. We haven't given a timeline on that. I would say, first thing is I think you can expect to see a meaningful improvement in the operating loss in '23 relative to '22. So we expect that to be pretty significant. Again, as Daniel mentioned, we invested a lot in 2022. So we'll get some of the leverage on top of that investment in 2023, along with higher revenue growth and more gross profit dollars. So we expect that to improve and improve throughout the year.

是的。我們還沒有給出時間表。我想說的是，首先，我認為你可以預期看到 23 年的營業虧損相對於 22 年有顯著改善。因此我們預計這將具有相當重要的意義。再次，正如丹尼爾所提到的，我們在 2022 年投入了大量資金。因此，我們將在 2023 年獲得一些基於這些投資的槓桿作用，同時獲得更高的收入成長和更多的毛利。因此，我們預計全年情況將會持續改善。

Exactly when we break even, we haven't said yet, but we feel like we're on a good path, and we feel like we are in a good position right now to have that speed and efficiency that we want to have in 2023.

我們還沒有確切地說什麼時候能實現收支平衡，但我們感覺我們正走在一條正確的道路上，我們感覺我們現在處於一個良好的位置，可以達到我們想要在 2023 年實現的速度和效率。

All right. Another question from Matt Thornton on margins. Do you still expect 2022 to have been the peak drag from podcasts? And podcast, do you still expect podcast to reach breakeven within several years? And three, do you still expect the consolidated gross margin to reach 30% within 5 years?

好的。馬特桑頓 (Matt Thornton) 提出了有關利潤的另一個問題。您是否仍然認為 2022 年將成為播客拖累的頂峰？還有播客，您還預計播客將在幾年內達到收支平衡嗎？第三，您是否仍預期綜合毛利率在5年內達到30％？

(inaudible) and then you can chime in because I think some added context here might be pretty good as well. So I think the big thing that I just want to highlight again is we mentioned, as Paul said before, that 2022 would be an investment year. And we broke out the various verticals where you would see that music have been making steady improvements, but obviously, our podcasting business had been a drag to our gross margin profile.

（聽不清楚）然後你可以插話，因為我認為這裡添加一些背景資訊可能也很好。因此，我認為我想再次強調的一件大事是，正如保羅之前所說，我們提到 2022 年將是投資年。我們將各個垂直領域分開來看，你會發現音樂一直在穩步提升，但顯然，播客業務拖累了我們的毛利率。

And we also then announced that 2023 would be a year where you see the reversal of some of those trends. So I just wanted to add that context that, that's still very much on the top line for us that you should expect music to be meaningfully improving with things like Marketplace playing an important role. And then podcasting, both as it grows in size with advertising revenue, but also more efficient spending will mean that you'll see improvements there as well. And then, Paul, maybe you can chime in on the detailed questions.

我們隨後也宣布，2023 年將會是一些趨勢逆轉的一年。所以我只是想補充一點，這對我們來說仍然是最重要的，你應該期待音樂能得到有意義的改善，而像 Marketplace 這樣的東西將發揮重要作用。然後，播客不僅隨著廣告收入規模的成長而成長，而且支出效率的提高也意味著您會看到其改善。然後，保羅，也許你可以加入討論一些詳細的問題。

Yes, I can be quick now. So the answer is yes to 2022 being the peak drag from podcast. Yes, the podcast reaching breakeven within several years. And yes, we still believe our consolidated gross margins can reach 30% in 5 years.

是的，我現在可以快點了。因此，答案是肯定的，2022 年將成為播客拖累的頂峰。是的，播客在幾年內就達到了收支平衡。是的，我們仍然相信我們的綜合毛利率可以在5年內達到30％。

Okay. Our next question is going to come from Justin Patterson. This is for Daniel. As Alex takes on responsibility as Chief Business Officer, how should we think about his priorities and leadership for content and advertising, how those might differ from Dawn's?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自賈斯汀·帕特森。這是給丹尼爾的。當亞歷克斯擔任首席商務官時，我們應該如何看待他在內容和廣告方面的優先事項和領導力，這些與 Dawn 的優先事項有何不同？

I don't think from a strategy point of view that it will differ all that much from Dawn's. However, again, the primary reason why we did this reorg was to drive speed and drive more efficiency. So speed will come in having more decision-making and faster decision-making. Essentially, Spotify is a lot more complex of a business than it was several years ago. And so, to have both Gustav and Alex help me in the day-to-day in this much more complex business, I think, will materially mean that we'll have more brains thinking about these things.

從戰略角度來看，我認為它與 Dawn 不會有太大區別。然而，我們進行這次重組的主要原因是為了提高速度和效率。因此，速度將體現在更多的決策和更快的決策上。從本質上來說，Spotify 的業務比幾年前複雜得多。因此，我認為，讓古斯塔夫和亞歷克斯在日常工作中幫助我處理這個更複雜的業務，實際上意味著我們將有更多的頭腦來思考這些事情。

We'll be having more decision-making so that we can make decisions faster because that honestly is one of the biggest blocker at this point. It's not that we can't execute on the ground. It is actually making real sort of material decision-making at the top. That's been one of our -- things that we need to speed up when we look at sort of the internal feedback.

我們將進行更多的決策，以便我們能夠更快地做出決定，因為老實說，這是目前最大的障礙之一。這並不是說我們不能在實地執行。這其實是在高層做出真正的物質決策。當我們查看內部回饋時，這是我們需要加快的事情之一。

And then we're going to holistically now look at the business rather than looking at things bit by bit. So marketing was under Alex preview previously, but not advertising and not content. And now we're holistically looking at it as one P&L and focus on driving efficiency across the board by readdressing resources to where it's most needed. And that will be a big improvement from prior org setups.

然後，我們將從整體上看待業務，而不是一點一點地看待事情。因此，行銷之前是在 Alex 預覽之下，但不是廣告，也不是內容。現在，我們將其作為損益表進行整體審視，並致力於透過將資源重新分配到最需要的地方來全面提高效率。這與先前的組織設置相比將會有很大的改進。

All right. Next question from Doug Anmuth, users and subscriber growth in '23. How would you think about 2023 net adds for MAUs and premium subscribers relative to your performance in '22? What are some of the puts and takes here?

好的。下一個問題來自 Doug Anmuth，關於 23 年用戶和訂閱者的成長。相對於 2022 年的表現，您如何看待 2023 年 MAU 和高級訂閱用戶的淨增情況？這裡有哪些利弊？

So obviously, we don't give 2022 guidance anymore. I think what we said in my outset is we expect really strong growth. Obviously, on the MAU side, '22 was a real outlier in terms of how much we outperformed. But we see this often where we have some years where we over-index on MAU or we over-indexed on subs, and it can change even throughout the year in terms of how we're trending.

因此很明顯，我們不再提供 2022 年的指導。我想我們在一開始就說過，我們預計會有真正強勁的成長。顯然，從 MAU 方面來看，22 年是我們表現優異的一個真正異常值。但我們經常看到這種情況，有些年份我們的 MAU 或訂閱量指數過高，而且就趨勢而言，它甚至可能在全年發生變化。

I would say, in general, any time we're growing MAUs, the way we are, it's always a really good sign of the business, the health of the business and the health of the future subscriber growth for Spotify as well. So we're not giving guidance, but I would say we feel really good about the momentum as we exit 2022. We feel good about the guidance for Q1 and how we're trending.

我想說，總的來說，只要我們的 MAU 在成長，這對於 Spotify 的業務、業務的健康狀況以及未來用戶成長的健康都是一個很好的信號。因此，我們沒有給出指導，但我想說，我們對 2022 年即將結束時的勢頭感到非常滿意。我們對第一季的指導以及我們的趨勢感到滿意。

My only addition to that would be, again, to note that much of the investments we've been making over these past few years that culminated in 2022 was making platform improvements. Improving the number of content we have on our platform, improving the tools for creators and consumers alike, and that has led to better acquisition, better retention of the consumers really across the board. So I feel really good about that.

我唯一要補充的是，再次指出，過去幾年我們所做的大部分投資都是為了改進平台，這些投資在 2022 年達到了頂峰。增加我們平台上的內容數量，改善創作者和消費者的工具，從而真正實現全方位更好地吸引和留住消費者。所以我對此感覺非常好。

And as I mentioned in my opening remarks, some of these things we expected to take longer on seeing the benefits, but we're seeing them already in 2022, and I think that's a real positive news for the years to come.

正如我在開場白中提到的那樣，我們預計其中一些事情需要更長時間才能看到好處，但我們在 2022 年就已經看到了，我認為這對未來幾年來說是一個真正的好消息。

Okay. Our next question is going to come from Michael Morris on advertising. How is advertising revenue been trending in the first quarter of 2023? Do you expect the relative performance of podcasting and music growth to persist in 2023? And how far forward do you have insight into demand trends?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自邁克爾莫里斯關於廣告的問題。 2023 年第一季廣告收入趨勢如何？您是否預期播客和音樂成長的相對錶現將在 2023 年持續下去？您對未來需求趨勢的了解有多少？

So if you kind of take a step back and you look at sort of just advertising in Q4 overall, it's definitely continued to be very up and down. So in Q4, we outperformed our expectations. Admittedly, those were lowered expectations. So we had kind of lowered expectations coming into Q4. We actually outperformed those by about EUR 50 million or so, plus or minus. And even within that, we had 2 months that outperformed and 1 month that underperformed. So even within Q4, it was pretty up and down.

因此，如果你退一步考慮，看看第四季的整體廣告情況，你會發現它肯定持續起伏不定。因此，在第四季度，我們的業績超出了預期。不可否認，這些都是降低了期望值。因此，我們對第四季的預期有所降低。我們的業績實際上比這些公司高出約 5,000 萬歐元左右，或多或少。即使如此，也有 2 個月表現優異，1 個月表現不佳。因此，即使在第四季度，情況也相當起伏。

So in Q1 probably -- we expect more of the same. We feel really good about the ad stack we're building. We feel really good about some of the acquisitions we've made, obviously, at the high-level megaphone, but chartable and pod sites and our ability to improve measurement and attribution across all of advertising. And so we feel good about that and where the tech is going, and then it's really going to somewhat depend on just how the macro rolls out over time. And so, it's been uncertain. I think we've done pretty well. Like I said, we slightly outperformed in Q4, and we'll see how the year unfolds.

因此，我們預計第一季可能會出現更多類似的情況。我們對正在建立的廣告堆疊感到非常滿意。我們對我們所進行的一些收購感到非常滿意，顯然，這些收購涉及高層擴音器、圖表和播客網站，以及我們改善所有廣告的衡量和歸因的能力。因此，我們對此以及技術的發展方向感到滿意，但這實際上將在某種程度上取決於宏觀經濟隨著時間的推移如何發展。所以，情況一直不確定。我認為我們做得非常好。正如我所說的，我們在第四季度的表現略有超出，我們將看看今年的情況如何。

Okay. Next question from Benjamin Black on Marketplace. You had expectations for approximately EUR 200 million in Marketplace revenue for 2022. How did you track versus expectations? And how should we be thinking about the trajectory of Marketplace in '23?

好的。下一個問題來自 Marketplace 上的 Benjamin Black。您預計 2022 年 Marketplace 的營收約為 2 億歐元。您是如何實現這目標的？我們該如何看待 23 年 Marketplace 的發展軌跡？

So we outperformed that EUR 200 million. I think we had said at the Investor Day that we expected Marketplace to grow at least 30% in 2022. It exceeded those expectations pretty nicely. So we had really strong Marketplace growth overall in 2022. And again, we feel that product has a lot of momentum behind it as well and expect good things in 2023 as well.

因此我們的業績超出了那 2 億歐元。我想我們在投資者日上說過，我們預計 Marketplace 在 2022 年將成長至少 30%。它的表現相當不錯，超出了我們的預期。因此，我們在 2022 年的整體市場成長非常強勁。而且，我們再次認為該產品背後也有很大的發展勢頭，並預計 2023 年也會有好的表現。

Okay. Next -- another question from Michael Morris. Can you share detail on investments that have impacted Premium gross margin? What types of products are being invested in? When do you expect them to be released? And what is the projected path to contribution?

好的。接下來——邁克爾·莫里斯的另一個問題。能否分享影響 Premium 毛利率的投資細節？正在投資哪些類型的產品？您預計它們什麼時候發布？預計的貢獻路徑是怎樣的？

So there's a number of things that go on there. A lot is things that we test and learn. We don't always talk about them, some of the things that come out 6, 9, 12 months later. And so, when we talk about an investment year, some of that is part of what was going on. It's things that we think are going to drive -- improve engagement, improve users, improve subscribers. And some of it, we have to absorb the cost as we're testing.

那裡發生了許多事情。很多東西都是我們要測試和學習的。我們並不總是談論它們，有些事情會在 6 個月、9 個月、12 個月後出現。因此，當我們談論投資年時，其中一些就是正在發生的事情。我們認為這些因素將會推動提高參與度、增加用戶、增加訂閱者。其中一部分成本，我們在測試時必須承擔。

So we don't go through all of them. We do sometimes 10, sometimes hundreds of those within quarters. But again, I think we believe we'll get the benefits of some of those moving forward into 2023, and you'll see the incremental investment slow and the benefits kind of hit in '23.

所以我們不會全部介紹。我們有時在一個季度內完成 10 個，有時完成數百個。但我再次認為，到 2023 年，我們相信我們將獲得其中的一些好處，並且你會看到增量投資放緩，而收益在 2023 年會受到影響。

Okay. Next question from Rich Greenfield on audio books. Is audio books as a category working? Was it a mistake? And how has it impacted your thinking about new categories, some of those new categories you teased at the Investor Day?

好的。下一個問題來自 Rich Greenfield，關於有聲書。有聲書作為一個類別是否有效？這是一個錯誤嗎？它對您對新類別的思考有何影響？您在投資者日上提到的一些新類別是什麼？

Yes. I mean it's early days on audio books. That's kind of what I can say. We're seeing some encouraging signs. We're definitely seeing people take up the offering but we're nowhere done from where we want to be and where we believe the category can be doing.

是的。我的意思是有聲書還處於早期階段。我能說的就這些。我們看到了一些令人鼓舞的跡象。我們確實看到人們接受了這個產品，但我們還遠遠沒有達到我們想要達到的水平，也遠遠沒有達到我們認為這個類別所能達到的水平。

But I would just -- rather than perhaps giving any specifics here or preannounced things, I think that the most important thing I can do is kind of give a context in that there's two types of companies. There's the company that waits until it gets things perfect the first time and then it tries to launch something that's perfect. And then there's the company that releases something that it knows needs work and then rapidly improves from there.

但我只是——也許不是在這裡給出任何具體細節或預先宣布的事情，我認為我能做的最重要的事情就是提供一種背景，即有兩種類型的公司。有些公司會等到第一次就把事情做到完美，然後才嘗試推出完美的產品。還有一些公司發布了一些它知道需要改進的產品，然後迅速地進行了改進。

We're definitely the latter. It's hard for people to understand when they're looking at us because it looks like it's an inferior product or an inferior strategy. We have the same notion around podcasting. How is this thing going to win podcasting these many years ago when we announced that. And yet now 4 years later, we're the leader in that space.

我們肯定是後者。當人們看著我們時，他們很難理解，因為它看起來像是一個劣質產品或劣質策略。我們對播客有相同的看法。當我們在這麼多年之前宣布這個消息時，它怎麼會贏得播客的青睞呢？而四年後的今天，我們已成為該領域的領導者。

So I think as you're looking at our strategy now, you shouldn't draw any two big conclusions that we are -- that's our full intent of what we want to do in the category. So we're encouraged because we think fundamentally that audio books has a massive opportunity and that there are very few consumers that are currently participating in the ecosystem. And if you look -- compare to our other verticals, music and podcasting, we thought pretty much the same thing.

因此，我認為，當您現在審視我們的策略時，您不應該得出任何重大結論——這就是我們想要在該類別中做的事情的全部意圖。所以我們感到鼓舞，因為我們從根本上認為有聲書擁有巨大的機遇，而且目前參與該生態系統的消費者非常少。如果你看一下——與我們的其他垂直領域，音樂和播客相比，我們的想法幾乎是相同的。

So nothing has really changed when we look at the space and what the potential is, and now we're just heads down focused on executing. And during 2023, you'll see a lot of new things roll out in the audio book category from Spotify.

因此，當我們審視這個領域和潛力時，一切都沒有改變，現在我們只需要專注於執行。 2023 年，您會看到 Spotify 在有聲書類別中推出許多新產品。

All right. Our next question is going to come from Deepak on user choice billing. Were there any noticeable benefits to subscribers from the rollout of Google user choice billing in the fourth quarter? And are you seeing any conversion uplift?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自 Deepak 關於用戶選擇計費的問題。谷歌在第四季推出的用戶選擇計費模式是否為訂閱用戶帶來了明顯的好處？您是否看到轉換率有所提升？

It's still early days. So it's tough to really know. I would say, in general, I think we're just overall, very excited about the opportunity. The join flow is better, giving users the choice on payment methods and how they want to work with us and purchase from us. And so, we're excited about user choice billing. We think it's going to reduce friction and improve conversion over time. Still early days in terms of how it's impacted at this point.

現在還為時過早。所以很難真正知道。我想說，總的來說，我認為我們對這個機會感到非常興奮。加入流程更好，讓用戶可以選擇付款方式以及如何與我們合作和向我們購買。因此，我們對用戶選擇計費感到非常興奮。我們認為隨著時間的推移它將減少摩擦並提高轉化率。就目前的影響而言，還處於早期階段。

It is positive, though. So it's early days, but positive.

但這仍然是正面的。雖然現在還為時過早，但還是積極的。

All right. We've got another question from Rich Greenfield on podcasting. Investors remain skeptical that podcasting is a good business and that it has meaningfully moved the needle for Spotify. Can you help them understand why you believe in the investment to date, especially in the context of your recent management changes?

好的。我們收到了 Rich Greenfield 提出的有關播客的另一個問題。投資人仍然懷疑播客是否是一門好生意，以及它是否能為 Spotify 帶來重大推動。您能否幫助他們理解為什麼您相信迄今為止的投資，特別是在您最近的管理變動的背景下？

Yes, I think the most important thing here is to kind of go back on context. 4 years ago, we entered into podcasting. The major player in podcasting had been doing it for 20 years and was considered the sort of unassailable leader. So we wanted to tackle this heads on. And we realized, again, as I mentioned in my comments around audio books that this was a nascent space that was growing, albeit that still was underconsumed to what we believe the potential was in the industry.

是的，我認為這裡最重要的是回顧背景。 4年前，我們進入了播客領域。播客領域的主要參與者已經從事該領域 20 年，被認為是不可撼動的領導者。所以我們想正面解決這個問題。我們再次意識到，正如我在有聲書的評論中提到的那樣，這是一個正在增長的新興領域，儘管它的消費量仍未達到我們認為的行業潛力。

And we took the medium and pretty much have grown overall globally now the audience by a huge margin to what was true 4 years ago. So it wasn't just that we took audience from another platform, but we actually grew the pie meaningfully for podcasters.

我們利用這個媒介，現在全球觀眾群與四年前相比有了大幅成長。因此，我們不僅從其他平台吸引了觀眾，而且實際上還為播客擴大了市場份額。

And as a result, now we have over 5 million creators on Spotify, so a massive increase in the number of people who are creating podcasts, you being one of them. And this is true across the world, really at this point.

因此，現在 Spotify 上有超過 500 萬創作者，製作播客的人數大幅增加，而您就是其中之一。目前，全世界的情況都是如此。

So net-net, I think we went from being almost nowhere 4 years ago to now being the leader in many markets around the world in this space. And that adds several benefits to Spotify. It adds the benefit that it makes our business more defensible because now it is meaningfully contributing to our advertising story. It is also so that from a competitive lens, when we've added this content, what we're seeing is that consumers are not just consuming music on the platform, but they're consuming music and podcast to a great extent. And the number of users on our platform that are consuming, podcast keeps growing as well. And as that's happening, their retention increases. And as that happening, it is impacting our business.

所以總的來說，我認為我們從四年前幾乎無名小卒發展到現在成為該領域全球許多市場的領導者。這為 Spotify 帶來了多項好處。它增加了一個好處，那就是它使我們的業務更具防禦性，因為現在它對我們的廣告故事做出了有意義的貢獻。從競爭的角度來看，當我們添加這些內容時，我們看到消費者不僅在平台上消費音樂，而且在很大程度上消費音樂和播客。我們平台上收聽播客的用戶數量也在不斷增加。隨著這種情況的發生，他們的保留率就會提高。隨著這種情況的發生，它正在影響我們的業務。

Now what you're probably asking underneath all of that is that it's been a drag on the gross margin side. So what does that mean for the future? Well, we've been making many investments. Some of them have been working greatly, and you should expect us to double down on those. And some of them, not surprisingly, haven't worked out. And there are certain shows that work really, really well for us, and there shows that didn't perform as we expected. And I think that's a sign of maturity that you go for the growth first and then you seek the efficiency.

現在您可能想問的是，這一切是否拖累了毛利率。那麼這對未來意味著什麼？嗯，我們一直在進行大量投資。其中一些已經發揮了巨大作用，你應該期待我們加倍努力。毫不奇怪，其中一些計劃並未成功。有些節目對我們來說確實非常有效，但有些節目的表現並不如我們預期。我認為這是成熟的標誌，首先追求成長，然後追求效率。

But generally, what you should expect us is across the board now to be focused more on that efficiency and creating more leverage and that's certainly true in podcasting too. And the management changes really had nothing to do with the change of strategy in podcasting. It's more around increasing the speed of decision-making and increasing the focus on efficiency across the board because the next era of Spotify is one where we're adding speed plus efficiency, not just focused on speed or growth at all costs. And that is a big shift, but it is also what we said during the Investor Day in June.

但總的來說，我們現在應該全面關注效率並創造更多槓桿，播客領域也是如此。管理階層的變動其實與播客策略的改變無關。這更多的是為了提高決策速度，並全面提高對效率的關注，因為 Spotify 的下一個時代是我們在提高速度的同時提高效率，而不是不惜一切代價只關注速度或成長。這是一個巨大的轉變，但這也是我們在六月投資者日上所說的。

And now we're going to have to live up to that. And I know some investors don't believe that we're serious about it, but hopefully, my remarks today shows that we are really, really focused on driving efficiency going forward.

現在我們必須實現這一目標。我知道有些投資人不相信我們是認真的，但我希望我今天的演講能表明我們確實非常注重提高未來的效率。

Another question from Benjamin Black on pricing. Last quarter, you alluded to a potential win-win with respect to the conversations you're having with the labels around price increases. What are some of the concessions you're looking for from the labels?

本傑明·布萊克 (Benjamin Black) 提出了有關定價的另一個問題。上個季度，您在與唱片公司就漲價問題進行的對話中提到了潛在的雙贏。您希望唱片公司能做出哪些讓步？

Yes. I can't comment on sort of individual negotiations with our rights partners. But as I mentioned before, we're thinking obviously how we can grow our business the best possible way. Sometimes that is keeping the price low and grow the number of users on the platform. Sometimes it is increasing the revenue per user. Sometimes it is increasing our margin per user and sometimes it's all of the above.

是的。我無法評論與我們的權利夥伴之間的個別談判。但正如我之前提到的，我們顯然在思考如何以最佳方式發展我們的業務。有時這可以保持低價並增加平台上的用戶數量。有時它會增加每個用戶的收入。有時它會增加我們每個用戶的利潤，有時則是以上所有。

The important part is what's pretty amazing with our Spotify story is that this is something that creates win-wins with our label partners too. They -- if Spotify does well in the market, it generally increases the revenues for the labels as well. And we've seen that time and time again that this close partnership generates material benefits for both companies over time. And that's what we will expect going forward, too, as we're driving more benefits for all of our creative partners and Spotify.

重要的是，我們的 Spotify 故事令人驚訝的是，這也與我們的唱片公司合作夥伴創造了雙贏。如果 Spotify 在市場上表現良好，通常也會增加唱片公司的收入。我們一次又一次地看到，這種密切的合作關係隨著時間的推移會為兩家公司帶來物質利益。這也是我們未來的期望，因為我們正在為所有創意合作夥伴和 Spotify 帶來更多好處。

All right. We've got another question from Doug Anmuth on marketing. How are you thinking about sales and marketing spend for 2023 following the ramp in spend over the past 2 years?

好的。我們收到了 Doug Anmuth 提出的另一個有關行銷的問題。鑑於過去兩年的支出成長，您如何看待 2023 年的銷售和行銷支出？

Yes, we definitely increased marketing a lot or significantly in 2022. It was definitely a driver of the outperformance in MAU and was very intentional. We had a plan and a focus at the beginning of the year to really invest, particularly in some of our newer markets to grow there and make sure that we have the foothold that we wanted to have. And by all accounts, it was extremely successful, if not more successful than we even thought.

是的，我們在 2022 年確實大幅增加了行銷投入。這無疑是 MAU 表現優異的一個驅動力，而且是有意為之。我們在年初就制定了計劃並重點進行了投資，特別是在一些較新的市場進行投資，以在那裡實現增長並確保我們擁有想要的立足點。從各方面來看，它都非常成功，甚至比我們想像的還要成功。

I do think you'll see '23 being -- we'll be more efficient with our marketing spend into 2023. As Daniel said, we're going to be more efficient. We're going to be more thoughtful about all of our spending into 2023. So no specific guidance, but yes, there was a big ramp in 2022. And I think you'll see us be more efficient with our marketing spend into '23.

我確實認為你會看到 2023 年——到 2023 年，我們的行銷支出將會更有效率。正如丹尼爾所說，我們將會更有效率。我們將更加慎重地考慮 2023 年的所有支出。因此沒有具體的指導，但是 2022 年的支出確實大幅增加。我認為您會看到我們在 2023 年的行銷支出效率更高。

Okay. Another question for Ben Black on ticketing. Could you give us an update on your ticketing business? Is this an area of focus? And how should we be thinking about the business model and the market opportunity?

好的。還有一個關於票務的問題想問 Ben Black。您能向我們介紹一下您的票務業務的最新情況嗎？這是一個重點領域嗎？我們該如何思考商業模式和市場機會？

Yes. And just to level set on context. Long term, I think it's absolutely a business model and market opportunity for Spotify, too. But our strategy is to be an open platform, and we want to enable as much as possible, and we are very partner-friendly when we're doing so. So think about, for instance, how we're working with our label partners, think about how we're working with merchandise and other things, too. It is not offering our own solution and locking people in. It is opening up the platform so that creators have as much choice as possible in choosing whatever options they want to do.

是的。並且僅根據上下文設定水平。從長遠來看，我認為這對 Spotify 來說絕對是一種商業模式和市場機會。但我們的策略是成為一個開放的平台，我們希望盡可能地實現更多功能，並且在這樣做的同時我們對合作夥伴非常友好。例如，想想我們如何與我們的品牌合作夥伴合作，想想我們如何與商品和其他事物合作。它不是提供我們自己的解決方案並將人們鎖定。它開放平台，以便創作者在選擇他們想要做的任何選項時有盡可能多的選擇。

So the primary strategy is very simple. We see a double-sided win-win here, which long term will translate into business opportunity. But our creators are trying to grow their audience on Spotify. They're trying to engage more with that audience, and we're obviously trying to help them monetize that audience even better. A huge part of that, especially for the music audience is obviously touring. So if we can be a partner to creators and help them sell more of their tickets, that is a meaningful increase to many artists' livelihood, which is great and something we're focused on.

所以主要的策略非常簡單。我們看到了雙贏的局面，從長遠來看，這將轉化為商業機會。但我們的創作者正試圖在 Spotify 上擴大他們的受眾。他們正試圖與觀眾進行更多互動，而我們顯然正試圖幫助他們更好地將觀眾貨幣化。其中很大一部分，尤其是對於音樂觀眾來說，顯然是巡迴演出。因此，如果我們能夠成為創作者的合作夥伴並幫助他們銷售更多門票，這將對許多藝術家的生計產生重大影響，這是一件好事，也是我們關注的重點。

But the separate part is on the user side, the same is true as well. One of the big things we're seeing is users are asking us, help me find more great things to go watch. And we saw a tremendous uptake in the number of people who are visiting the Concerts tab on Spotify in 2022. But the strategy isn't to go compete with the ecosystem, but rather to enable the ecosystem. And then from there on, there will be opportunities for us to play as well. And you can see that already today where there's lots of concerts from all the big vendors being available, and we'll add more and more of inventory. And over time, that will translate into business opportunities for Spotify as well.

但單獨的部分在用戶端，也同樣如此。我們看到的一件大事是，用戶正在詢問我們，幫我找到更多值得觀看的精彩內容。我們發現，2022 年造訪 Spotify 音樂會標籤的人數大幅增加。但我們的策略不是與生態系競爭，而是支持生態系。從那時起，我們也將有機會參加比賽。今天您已經可以看到，各大供應商都有許多音樂會可供選擇，而且我們還將增加越來越多的庫存。隨著時間的推移，這也將轉化為 Spotify 的商機。

Okay. Next question from Mario Lu on cost savings. Can you help quantify the annual savings from the headcount reduction you announced last week? And any specific areas of the business to call out that were impacted more so than others?

好的。下一個問題是 Mario Lu 關於成本節約。您能否幫助量化上周宣布的裁員所帶來的年度節省？有哪些特定的業務領域比其他領域受到的影響更大？

We're not going to quantify the savings. Obviously, you can do the math. It's roughly 600 employees that were affected. The 6% was actual employees. We also are looking closely at open headcount to see which of those we want to backfill and which of those we will also eliminate sort of, as we've mentioned a number of times as we try and be more efficient with deploying capital and employees moving forward. And there wasn't really any specific area. It was pretty broad-based across most of the divisions within Spotify.

我們不會量化節省的金額。顯然，你可以計算一下。約有 600 名員工受到影響。 6% 是實際員工。我們也密切關注空缺員工人數，看看哪些人我們想要填補，哪些人我們也將裁掉，正如我們多次提到的那樣，我們試圖更有效地部署資本和員工。而且實際上並沒有任何特定區域。它涉及 Spotify 內部大多數部門，範圍相當廣泛。

We've got another question from Rich Greenfield on the product. Spotify recently began testing a Friend's tab on the bottom strip of the app. Can you help us understand your thinking here?

我們收到了 Rich Greenfield 關於該產品的另一個問題。 Spotify 最近開始在應用程式底部測試「好友」標籤。您能幫助我們理解您的想法嗎？

Well, we do a lot of experiments on the product side in many different areas. So what you probably have seen is one of those experiments. And since we're not committed to rolling that out, I don't really have much of a sort of comment, but to say that overall, we're committed to creating the best audio experience for consumers and creators in the world. And obviously, social could be a meaningful driver of creating an even stickier and more engaging experience.

嗯，我們在產品方面在許多不同領域做了很多實驗。您可能已經看到了其中一個實驗。由於我們尚未承諾推出這項服務，所以我實際上沒有太多的評論，但總的來說，我們致力於為世界上的消費者和創作者創造最佳的音訊體驗。顯然，社交可以成為創造更具黏性和吸引力的體驗的重要驅動力。

We've got a follow-up question from Doug Anmuth on subscribers. You typically see MAU to Premium subscriber conversion in the 12 to 18 month range. Do you expect any change to that conversion or to churn given the large MAU cohorts over the past couple of years?

我們收到了 Doug Anmuth 關於訂閱者的後續問題。您通常會在 12 至 18 個月的時間內看到 MAU 向 Premium 用戶的轉變。考慮到過去幾年的龐大月活躍用戶群體，您是否預期這種轉換率或用戶流失率會發生任何變化？

So I'd say, look, at a high level, we've said this repeatedly for a while, any time you're seeing accelerating growth in MAU, that always tends to be very good for our business and lead to subscribers over time. At this point, we don't see any reason why any of our historical trends would change. It's always tough to know. But again, given the outperformance in MAU this year, that's always a good harbinger for sub growth in the future.

所以我想說，從高層次來看，我們已經反覆說過這一點，任何時候你看到 MAU 加速成長，這總是對我們的業務非常有利，並且隨著時間的推移會帶來訂閱用戶。目前，我們看不出任何歷史趨勢會改變的理由。這總是很難知道。但鑑於今年 MAU 的出色表現，這始終是未來訂閱成長的一個好兆頭。

And with respect to churn, we don't obviously give those numbers out. Year-over-year churn, though, was pretty consistent with where it was at this point last year. So even with the strong growth, we're not seeing any uptick in churn at all.

至於客戶流失率，我們顯然不會公佈這些數字。不過，年比流失率與去年同期的水準相當一致。因此，即使成長強勁，我們也沒有看到客戶流失率有任何上升。

The one addition I would probably just make is that it's generally been true over the entire existence at Spotify that the longer a person stays with us, the higher the likelihood is that they'll end up being a Premium subscriber over time. So again, country mix changes, maturity of those market changes and so on. So when you look at the core behavior, it may take longer in some developing markets than it does in mature markets, et cetera. But the trend is the same, which is the longer they stay, the more likely they are to convert. And of course, the better the engaging experience, we make the more likely they are to stay. And therefore, the more likely it is to lead to positive business results for us long term.

我可能只想補充一點，那就是在 Spotify 的整個存在過程中，通常情況是，用戶使用我們的服務時間越長，他們最終成為 Premium 訂閱用戶的可能性就越大。因此，國家結構發生變化，市場成熟度發生變化等等。因此，當你觀察核心行為時，你會發現一些發展中市場可能比成熟市場需要更長的時間，等等。但趨勢是一樣的，他們停留的時間越長，轉變的可能性就越大。當然，參與體驗越好，他們留下來的可能性就越大。因此，它就越有可能為我們帶來長期積極的業務成果。

All right. We've got time for 1 to 2 more questions. We're going to go to the next one from Benjamin Black on margins. I think you classified 2022 as an investment year. So could you break out -- break down which investments are falling off that will drive the positive gross margin inflection in 2023 and 2024?

好的。我們還有時間回答 1 到 2 個問題。我們將討論本傑明·布萊克 (Benjamin Black) 關於利潤的下一篇文章。我認為您將 2022 年歸類為投資年。那麼，您能否細分一下哪些投資正在下降，從而推動 2023 年和 2024 年毛利率的正向變化？

Yes. I think there's -- look, there's a number of factors that are going to -- that improve gross margin. I think we've talked about a lot of them. We're going to continue to see Marketplace growth, which will help our music gross margin. A lot of the investments that we did in 2022 that were investments with no real sort of benefits to the revenue will start to hopefully bear fruit in '23 and beyond. We've talked about podcasting that 2022 was going to be the peak year in terms of the drag that podcasting had on our gross margins. So we expect that to get better in 2023 as well. So pretty consistent with what we've said in the past in terms of what the impacts were in 2022 and how that will change in '23 and beyond.

是的。我認為有很多因素可以提高毛利率。我想我們已經討論了很多。我們將繼續看到市場成長，這將有助於提高我們的音樂毛利率。我們在 2022 年進行的許多投資並沒有為收入帶來任何實際收益，但預計在 2023 年及以後開始取得成果。我們曾討論過播客，就播客對我們毛利率的拖累而言，2022 年將是巔峰年。因此我們預計 2023 年情況也會有所改善。因此，就 2022 年的影響以及 2023 年及以後將如何變化而言，這與我們過去所說的非常一致。

All right. And we're going to take the last question from Rich Greenfield on competition. Does Spotify need to figure out music discovery knowing that TikTok appears to be ramping up to launch a music subscription service in the U.S. and Europe later this year?

好的。我們將回答里奇·格林菲爾德關於競爭的最後一個問題。鑑於 TikTok 似乎正準備在今年稍後在美國和歐洲推出音樂訂閱服務，Spotify 是否需要弄清楚音樂發現問題？

Well, I mean, again, we have what I think is a pretty decent music discovery already, which works pretty well. Now that said, of course, we're always looking at how we can make that better. And you're right to point out that TikTok obviously, is a formidable competitor, I think, to any platform in the world today, no matter what field you're operating in. But we feel pretty good about the improvements we made in the platform already. And obviously, I look forward to sharing more on Stream On, sort of wink-wink around all the updates that we're planning throughout the year as well that I think will mean a lot for both music and podcasting and beyond.

嗯，我的意思是，我認為我們已經有了相當不錯的音樂發現，而且效果很好。話雖如此，當然，我們一直在尋找如何使其變得更好。你說得對，我認為，TikTok 顯然是當今世界上任何平台的強大競爭對手，無論你經營哪個領域。但我們對平台上已經取得的改進感到非常滿意。顯然，我期待在 Stream On 上分享更多內容，就像對我們全年計劃的所有更新的暗示一樣，我認為這對音樂、播客和其他領域都意義重大。

So we're focused on having the best possible platform we can have for both consumers and creators and that remains true. But I feel, candidly, that -- we're in a better position competitively than we've been in many, many years. For throughout the existence of Spotify, we have always heard of competitors, and it was always the sort of big scary wolf, whether it was Apple or Amazon in the past, et cetera. Now it's perhaps YouTube and TikTok, et cetera.

因此，我們專注於為消費者和創作者提供最好的平台，這一點始終如一。但我坦率地認為，我們的競爭地位比過去許多年都要好。在 Spotify 存在的整個過程中，我們一直聽說有競爭對手，而且總是像一匹可怕的大狼，無論是過去的蘋果還是亞馬遜等等。現在可能是 YouTube 和 TikTok 等等。

But with both, all the improvements we've been making in music, but also with the addition of podcasting and audio books, it is a much more resilient consumer experience. And I feel really, really good about our competitive differentiation. And I think when you look at already our 2022 results on both the MAU side, the improvements in the Gen Z, our audience, in Southeast Asia, those are showing that our products and platform is very, very favorable in the competitive marketplace.

但是，隨著我們在音樂方面不斷取得進步，以及播客和有聲讀物的加入，消費者的體驗將更加有彈性。我對我們的競爭差異感到非常非常滿意。我認為，當您看到我們 2022 年的月活躍用戶 (MAU) 業績、東南亞 Z 世代受眾的改善時，這些都表明我們的產品和平台在競爭激烈的市場中非常有利。

All right. Thanks, Rich. And that's going to conclude our Q&A session for today's call. And I'm going to turn it now back over to Daniel for some closing remarks.

好的。謝謝，里奇。今天電話會議的問答環節就到此結束。現在我將把時間交還給丹尼爾，請他作一些結束語。

All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for joining the call. I'll just once again want to reiterate my confidence in the business now as we're entering the next phase. And while it was really great to close out 2022 on such a high note, the fourth quarter is -- I think we just really one of many proof points that shows that the investments we made over the last few years are really paying dividends. And when I look at the totality of what we've done, one thing that stands out to me, and it is that it's not always linear. We try to draw these linear dots, but that's not how the world works. And what we've been going through has really been a multiyear approach that really culminated with what we presented to you, the community, at our Investor Day in June. .

好的。好吧，謝謝大家參加電話會議。當我們進入下一階段時，我只想再次重申我對業務的信心。雖然以如此高的成績結束 2022 年確實很棒，但第四季度——我認為我們只是眾多證據之一，表明我們過去幾年所做的投資確實獲得了回報。當我回顧我們所做的一切時，有一件事讓我印象深刻，那就是它並不總是線性的。我們嘗試畫出這些線性點，但世界並不是這樣運作的。我們一直在經歷一個多年的過程，最終在六月的投資者日上向大家（社區）展示了我們所做的一切。 。

And that's the plan we're tracking consistently against. So I look forward to sharing more about our evolution and all the things that we're building at our upcoming Stream on event on March 8. And in the meantime, please check out our webcast for the record for more details about the quarter. Thank you, everyone, for joining us.

這就是我們一直在遵循的計劃。 因此，我期待在 3 月 8 日即將舉行的 Stream on 活動中分享更多有關我們的發展歷程和正在建造的一切。同時，請查看我們的網路廣播以獲取有關本季度的更多詳細資訊。謝謝大家的參與。

Okay. And that concludes today's call. We'll be available on our website and also on the Spotify app under Spotify Earnings Call Replays. And thanks, everyone, for joining.

好的。今天的電話會議到此結束。我們將在我們的網站和 Spotify 應用程式的 Spotify 收益電話會議重播下提供此服務。感謝大家的參與。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。