Spotify Technology SA (SPOT) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to Spotify's first-quarter 2025 earnings call and webcast. (Operator Instructions)

歡迎參加 Spotify 2025 年第一季財報電話會議及網路廣播。（操作員指示）

As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Bryan Goldberg, Head of Investor Relations. Thank you. Please go ahead.

提醒一下，本次電話會議正在錄音。現在我想將電話轉給投資人關係主管 Bryan Goldberg。謝謝。請繼續。

Thanks, operator, and welcome to Spotify's first-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Joining us today will be Daniel Ek, our CEO; Alex Norstrom, our Co-President and Chief Business Officer; Gustav Soederstroem, our Co-President and Chief Product and Technology Officer; and Christian Luiga, our CFO.

謝謝接線員，歡迎參加 Spotify 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。今天與我們一起參加的是我們的執行長 Daniel Ek；我們的聯合總裁兼首席商務長 Alex Norstrom；我們的聯合總裁兼首席產品和技術長 Gustav Soederstroem；以及我們的財務長 Christian Luiga。

(Event Instructions) Before we begin, let me quickly cover the Safe Harbor. During this call, we'll be making certain forward-looking statements, including projections or estimates about the future performance of the company. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties, actual results could materially differ because of factors discussed on today's call, in our shareholder deck and in filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

（活動說明）在我們開始之前，讓我快速介紹一下安全港。在本次電話會議中，我們將做出某些前瞻性陳述，包括對公司未來績效的預測或估計。這些聲明是基於當前的預期和假設，受風險和不確定性的影響，實際結果可能因今天的電話會議、股東大會和向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中討論的因素而存在重大差異。

During this call, we'll also refer to certain non-IFRS financial measures. Reconciliations between our IFRS and non-IFRS financial measures can be found in our shareholder deck in the financial section of our Investor Relations website and also furnished today on Form 6-K.

在本次電話會議中，我們也會參考某些非國際財務報告準則的財務指標。我們的 IFRS 和非 IFRS 財務指標之間的對帳可以在我們投資者關係網站的財務部分的股東資料中找到，也可以在今天的 6-K 表格中找到。

And with that, I'm going to turn the floor over to Daniel.

現在，我將把發言權交給丹尼爾。

All right. Thanks, Bryan, and hi, everyone. I'm really pleased to report that this was another solid quarter, largely in line with our expectation with one clear standout, the outperformance in our subscriber growth. It was a fairly straightforward quarter, so I'll let Alex and Christian take you through the numbers and share their insights. So instead of going over what's already working, I want to use this time to talk about two things that are more top of mind for me right now.

好的。謝謝，布萊恩，大家好。我很高興地報告，這又是一個穩健的季度，基本上符合我們的預期，其中有一個明顯的亮點，那就是我們的用戶成長表現出色。這是一個相當簡單的季度，所以我會讓 Alex 和 Christian 帶您了解這些數字並分享他們的見解。因此，我不想回顧已經取得的進展，而是想利用這段時間談談我現在最關心的兩件事。

The first thing I want to acknowledge is the broader macro environment. There's a lot of uncertainty in the world. And when volatility rises, it's naturally -- natural to ask who might be affected and how. And from where I sit, Spotify is faring better than most. But of course, if something truly extreme happens, we may be impacted, too. That said, I don't believe anything we're seeing today changes the long-term picture for Spotify. The business is solid. Our model holds up and the direction we're heading in remains clear.

我首先要承認的是更廣泛的宏觀環境。世界上存在著許多不確定性。當波動性上升時，我們自然會問誰會受到影響以及會受到怎樣的影響。從我的角度來看，Spotify 的表現比大多數公司都要好。但當然，如果發生真正極端的事情，我們也可能會受到影響。話雖如此，我認為我們今天看到的任何事情都不會改變 Spotify 的長期前景。生意很穩健。我們的模型是正確的，我們前進的方向仍然明確。

People still want to listen to music. They want to learn. They want to be intended, they want to be inspired. That fundamental demand hasn't changed since we started Spotify, and the engagement we're seeing now suggests we become even more central to people's lives. That only happens when you consistently solve real problems and meet more of their needs.

人們仍然想聽音樂。他們想學習。他們想要得到關注，他們想要得到啟發。自從我們創立 Spotify 以來，這項基本需求就沒有改變過，我們現在看到的參與度顯示我們在人們的生活中變得更加重要。只有當你不斷解決實際問題並滿足更多需求時，這種情況才會發生。

The underlying data at the moment is very healthy. Engagement remains high, retention is strong. And thanks to our freemium model, people have the flexibility to stay with us even when things feel more uncertain. So yes, the short term may bring some noise, but we remain confident in the long-term story and the direction we're heading in feels clearer than ever.

目前的基礎數據非常健康。參與度依然很高，保留率很高。而且由於我們的免費增值模式，即使在情況變得更加不確定的情況下，人們也可以靈活地繼續與我們合作。所以，是的，短期內可能會帶來一些噪音，但我們對長期前景仍然充滿信心，我們前進的方向比以往任何時候都更加清晰。

April 1 marked my 19th year working here, and that kind of milestone naturally leads to reflection. And one thing that stands out is that while the emphasis on what we prioritize may shift, the core strategy has stayed remarkably consistent. Our focus has always been on delivering the best possible experience to users and creators and solving the real problems they face.

4 月 1 日是我在這裡工作的第 19 個年頭，這樣的里程碑自然會引發我的反思。值得注意的是，雖然我們優先考慮的重點可能會發生變化，但核心策略卻保持了高度的一致性。我們的重點始終是為用戶和創作者提供最佳體驗並解決他們面臨的實際問題。

For me, it's never been either or when it comes to the short term or the long term. The way I see it, the long term is built 1 day at a time. We focus on the inputs we can control, solving real problems, improving the experience and moving with speed. And we trust that if we keep doing that, the outcomes will follow.

對我來說，從來都不是短期或長期的二選一。在我看來，長期目標是一天一天建立起來的。我們專注於我們可以控制的輸入，解決實際問題，改善體驗並快速發展。我們相信，只要我們堅持這樣做，就會有成果。

My co-founder, Martin has this line that I keep coming back to. The value of the company is the sum of all problems solved, and that's how we think about our job. Just keep solving meaningful problems every day, and the long term takes care of itself. And that's also why we came into this year with a clear commitment to accelerate our pace of innovation. We're calling 2025 the year of accelerated execution.

我的共同創辦人馬丁說過這樣一句話，我一直回想起它。公司的價值是所有解決的問題的總和，這就是我們對工作的看法。只要每天堅持解決有意義的問題，長遠來看，問題就會迎刃而解。這也是為什麼我們今年明確承諾加快創新步伐的原因。我們將 2025 年稱為加速執行之年。

And so far, we're delivering on that promise. We support now more than 2,000 partner devices. And as you can imagine, this comes with complexity. We've now decreased the time spend rolling out across all of our ubiquity apps by 10x, and timing for scaling new features on ubiquity devices has shrunk 6x. So what used to take us years to deliver is now taking months.

到目前為止，我們正在兌現這項承諾。我們現在支援超過 2,000 種合作夥伴設備。正如您所想像的，這會帶來複雜性。現在，我們將在所有普及型應用程式中推出新功能所花費的時間減少了 10 倍，將普及型裝置上擴展新功能所花費的時間縮短了 6 倍。因此，我們過去需要幾年才能完成的工作現在只需幾個月即可完成。

From behind-the-scenes upgrades to visible new offerings, these are already creating the significant impact. One great example is the Spotify Partner Program, our new monetization system for video podcasters, which launched in January and complements our growing podcasting ads business.

從幕後升級到可見的新產品，這些已經產生了重大影響。一個很好的例子就是 Spotify 合作夥伴計劃，這是我們針對視訊播客推出的全新貨幣化系統，於一月份推出，對我們不斷增長的播客廣告業務進行了補充。

In record time, we've expanded it to nine new markets, and we're seeing strong traction with users spending 44% more time with video content overall. And as we work to scale quickly, the program has enabled us to pay out over $100 million to podcast creators in Q1 alone.

我們以創紀錄的速度將其擴展到 9 個新市場，我們看到強勁的吸引力，用戶在視訊內容上花費的時間總體增加了 44%。隨著我們努力快速擴大規模，該計劃使我們僅在第一季就向播客創作者支付了超過 1 億美元。

We also continue to expand Audiobooks in Premium, rolling it out to more regions and introducing innovations that are driving higher user and author engagement. And what's particularly exciting is that I think it's only the beginning. Internal tooling and AI system we've been building over the past few years, combined with new ways of working across teams, are now enabling us to execute faster and smarter, and the compounding effect of that shift is something I believe will become even more visible in the quarters ahead.

我們也將繼續擴展高級版有聲讀物，將其推廣到更多地區，並引入創新，以推動更高的用戶和作者參與度。尤其令人興奮的是，我認為這只是一個開始。我們在過去幾年中一直在構建的內部工具和人工智慧系統，加上跨團隊的新工作方式，現在使我們能夠更快、更聰明地執行，我相信這種轉變的複合效應將在未來幾個季度變得更加明顯。

And with that, I'll hand it over to Alex.

說完這些，我就把它交給亞歷克斯。

Thanks, Daniel. I will dig a little deeper on MAU and hubs, and I'll also touch on our ad strategy. But this was our highest Q1 subs net adds since 2020 and our second highest Q1 ever, and a huge part of this boost came from emerging markets. These markets drove two-thirds of the subs outperformance with the places like Latin America and Asia Pacific coming in especially strong. But it's not just the emerging markets that are doing well. Developed markets are also seeing solid growth.

謝謝，丹尼爾。我將更深入探討 MAU 和中心，同時也會談及我們的廣告策略。但這是我們自 2020 年以來第一季淨增用戶數量最高的一次，也是我們有史以來第二高的第一季度，而這一成長很大一部分來自新興市場。這些市場推動了三分之二的潛艦表現出色，其中拉丁美洲和亞太地區的表現特別強勁。但並非只有新興市場表現良好。已開發市場也正在穩定成長。

We are growing organically, and our data also shows that we are taking market share in these regions. So looking at the global picture, we really can ask for a better position. We've been doing a few key things to drive the subs growth forward. First, it's our product itself. It's industry-leading, and it just keeps getting better with all the new features and enhancements we're constantly adding.

我們正在有機成長，我們的數據也顯示我們正在這些地區佔據市場份額。因此，從全球情勢來看，我們確實可以要求獲得更好的地位。我們一直在做一些關鍵的事情來推動潛艇的成長。首先，這是我們的產品本身。它是業界領先的，隨著我們不斷添加的新功能和增強功能，它變得越來越好。

The second is our best-in-class value to price ratio. We continue to drive strong conversion from our promotional campaigns, which, as you know, are designed to move users through our funnel. Our promotions can be highly localized and targeted geared at converting new and long-time free users that have seen the exceptional value that Spotify Premium really provides. The bottom line, we have a number of different tools available to us to continue to drive healthy subscriber growth, and you saw some of those at play in Q1.

第二是我們一流的性價比。我們繼續透過促銷活動推動強勁的轉化，正如您所知，這些促銷活動旨在引導用戶通過我們的管道。我們的促銷活動可以高度在地化和有針對性地吸引那些已經看到 Spotify Premium 真正提供的卓越價值的新用戶和長期免費用戶。最重要的是，我們擁有多種不同的工具可供使用，以繼續推動用戶的健康成長，並且您在第一季度看到了其中一些工具正在發揮作用。

When we look at the full year of 2025, we are confident in our expectations, especially given the notable growth and engagement that we continue to see across our content offerings with listeners spending more time with Spotify than on any other audio platform.

展望 2025 年全年，我們對我們的預期充滿信心，尤其是考慮到我們的內容產品繼續呈現顯著增長和參與度，聽眾在 Spotify 上花費的時間比在任何其他音頻平台上都多。

Turning to our ads business. This is an area where we've been laying the foundation over the last several years. And importantly, 2025 will be a year where we are now able to build on this fund. And we're starting to see early benefits from the automated feature that we've been introducing. These tools give advertisers more flexibility, buy ads to create them easily and cost-effectively, and also achieve measurable results.

轉向我們的廣告業務。這是我們過去幾年來一直致力於奠定基礎的領域。重要的是，2025 年我們將能夠利用這筆基金。我們開始看到我們引入的自動化功能帶來的早期好處。這些工具為廣告主提供了更大的彈性，讓他們可以購買廣告並輕鬆、經濟高效地製作廣告，同時也能獲得可衡量的效果。

In Q1, we had over 10,000 advertisers leveraging these new tools, representing a 21% year-over-year increase and marking the first Q1 to exceed Q4 in active advertisers. So while it's early, I feel confident about where this part of the business is headed.

在第一季度，我們有超過 10,000 名廣告商利用這些新工具，年增 21%，並且是第一季活躍廣告商數量首次超過第四季度。因此，雖然現在還為時過早，但我對這部分業務的發展方向充滿信心。

I will now turn it over to Christian to take you through the numbers.

現在我將把時間交給克里斯蒂安，讓他向大家介紹這些數字。

Thank you, Alex, and thanks, everyone, for joining us.

謝謝你，亞歷克斯，也謝謝大家加入我們。

Let me dive into the quarter one results and then share some perspective on the outlook. Overall, we're pleased with how the business delivered in the quarter. MAU grew by 3 million to 678 million in total, and we added 5 million net subscribers finishing at 268 million, up 12% year-on-year.

讓我深入了解第一季的業績，然後分享一些對前景的看法。總體而言，我們對本季的業務表現感到滿意。每月活躍用戶數增加 300 萬，達 6.78 億；淨增用戶數 500 萬，達 2.68 億，年增 12%。

Total revenue was EUR4.2 billion and grew 15% year-on-year on a constant currency basis. Our premium revenue rose 16% year-on-year on a constant currency basis, driven by continued subscriber growth and ARPU gains associated with price increases. Our advertising business delivered currency neutral growth of 5% year-on-year.

總收入為42億歐元，以固定匯率計算年增15％。以固定匯率計算，我們的保費收入年增 16%，這得益於用戶數量的持續增長以及價格上漲帶來的 ARPU 增長。我們的廣告業務實現了同比 5% 的中性成長。

If we exclude the near-term impact from strategic initiatives like optimization of our licensed podcast and rollout of the Spotify Partner program, we had a low double-digit advertising growth. While these efforts involve short-term adjustment to our advertising business, we are pleased with the early positive effects they have and how it improves our position long term.

如果我們排除諸如優化我們的授權播客和推出 Spotify 合作夥伴計劃等策略舉措的近期影響，我們的廣告成長率將只有較低的兩位數。雖然這些努力涉及對我們的廣告業務進行短期調整，但我們對它們產生的早期積極影響以及如何長期改善我們的地位感到滿意。

Moving to profitability. Gross margin came in at 31.6%, surpassing guidance by approximately 10 basis points and expanding about 400 basis points year-on-year. Favorability versus our plan was led by stronger-than-expected podcast ad sales and slight variances in content costs.

轉向盈利。毛利率達 31.6%，超出預期約 10 個基點，較去年同期成長約 400 個基點。與我們的計劃相比，播客廣告銷售表現強於預期，而內容成本略有不同，這導致了市場對其的青睞。

Operating income of EUR509 million was aided by gross profit strength. Operating income was impacted by EUR76 million in social charges in the quarter, which were EUR58 million higher than our forecast. Excluding non-forecasted social charges, we came in EUR18 million above our guidance. As a reminder, we don't forecast share price movements in our outlook for the business since they are outside of control.

5.09億歐元的營業收入得益於強勁的毛利。本季營業收入受到 7,600 萬歐元社會費用的影響，比我們的預測高出 5,800 萬歐元。不包括未預測的社會費用，我們的收入比預期高出 1800 萬歐元。提醒一下，我們不會在業務展望中預測股價走勢，因為它們不受控制。

Finally, free cash flow was EUR534 million in the quarter. Year-on-year performance here was driven by our growth in operating income as well as improving our net working capital. We ended the quarter with EUR8 billion in cash and short-term investments.

最後，本季自由現金流為5.34億歐元。我們的年比業績表現得益於營業收入的成長以及淨營運資本的提高。本季末，我們的現金和短期投資為 80 億歐元。

Looking ahead to guidance. In quarter two, we are forecasting 689 million MAU, an increase of 11 million from quarter one and 273 million subscribers, an increase of 5 million over quarter one. We're also forecasting EUR4.3 billion in total revenue, while we're seeing underlying outperformance in revenue, our outlook incorporates an incremental headwind of approximately EUR100 million arising from currency movements over the last quarter. We also anticipate a gross margin of 31.5% and operating income of EUR539 million.

展望指導。我們預測第二季的每月活躍用戶數將達到 6.89 億，比第一季增加 1,100 萬，訂閱用戶數將達到 2.73 億，比第一季增加 500 萬。我們還預測總收入將達到 43 億歐元，雖然我們看到收入的潛在表現優異，但我們的展望包含了上個季度貨幣變動帶來的約 1 億歐元的增量逆風。我們也預期毛利率為 31.5%，營業收入為 5.39 億歐元。

Regarding full-year margins, we continue to expect improvement in 2025 at a more measured pace than last year's exceptional gains as we strategically invest to accelerate our long-term growth ambitions. As previously noted, we expect our sequential gross margin cadence to be more variable over the course of the year, with expectations for a seasonally stronger quarter four finish.

就全年利潤率而言，我們預計 2025 年利潤率將以比去年的出色成長更為穩健的速度成長，因為我們將進行策略性投資以加速實現我們的長期成長目標。如前所述，我們預計全年的連續毛利率變化會更大，預計第四季度的毛利率將因季節性因素而更加強勁。

Naturally, the exact trajectory will depend on the timing of strategic initiatives and, to a lesser extent, broader advertising market dynamics. While our ads business has remained resilient, we are closely monitoring market conditions to proactively adapt and any changes in the macroeconomic environment.

當然，確切的軌跡將取決於策略性舉措的時機，以及在較小程度上取決於更廣泛的廣告市場動態。雖然我們的廣告業務保持了彈性，但我們正在密切關注市場狀況，以主動適應宏觀經濟環境的任何變化。

With respect to capital allocation, we remain focused on prioritizing internal growth opportunities that can drive attractive returns while managing our balance sheet to support our long-term strategy. At the end of quarter 1one, our March 2026 exchangeable notes became a current liability with a current carrying value of EUR1.7 billion relative to the EUR8 billion cash and short-term investments we had on hand.

在資本配置方面，我們仍然專注於優先考慮可以帶來可觀回報的內部成長機會，同時管理我們的資產負債表以支持我們的長期策略。在第一季末，我們 2026 年 3 月的可交換票據成為流動負債，相對於我們手頭上的 80 億歐元現金和短期投資，其當前帳面價值為 17 億歐元。

While this upcoming maturity factors into our framework, we remain confident in our strong balance sheet position. And to the extent excess capacity rises, we will, of course, take our shareholders into consideration. In conclusion, we delivered a solid quarter, and we stand well positioned financially.

雖然即將到期的因素已納入我們的框架，但我們仍然對我們強勁的資產負債表狀況充滿信心。當產能過剩加劇時，我們當然會考慮到股東的利益。總而言之，我們本季業績穩健，財務狀況良好。

With that, I hand things back to you, Bryan.

說完這些，我把事情還給你，布萊恩。

All right. Thanks, Christian. (Event Instructions)

好的。謝謝，克里斯蒂安。（活動須知）

And our first question today is going to come from Matt Thornton on the 2025 outlook. Do you still expect fourth quarter 2025 gross margin to be up year-over-year and the high point for 2025? And secondly, do you expect 2025 MAU net adds to be within the range of the past four years? And if so, does this require incremental marketing investment?

今天我們的第一個問題來自 Matt Thornton，關於 2025 年的展望。您是否仍預期 2025 年第四季的毛利率將年增並達到 2025 年的最高點？其次，您是否預計 2025 年 MAU 淨增額將在過去四年的範圍內？如果是這樣，這是否需要增加行銷投資？

So thank you, Matthew. I think I just went through it in my remarks that we do expect both the cadence to be more variable over the course of the year, but also that the quarter four will be a seasonally stronger quarter four than the rest of the year. And we do expect that the full year 2025 will be stronger than 2024 as a whole.

所以謝謝你，馬修。我想我剛才在發言中已經提到過，我們確實預計全年節奏會更加多變，但第四季度的季節性表現也將比今年其他時間更加強勁。我們確實預期 2025 年全年的表現將比 2024 年全年更加強勁。

And when it comes to the 2025 MAU adds, yes, we still believe that it will be in the range of the last four years, and that means a stronger second half, which is very typical to the Spotify journey where we have seasonality not always is following the logic of the subs.

至於 2025 年的 MAU 成長，是的，我們仍然相信它將處於過去四年的範圍內，這意味著下半年會更加強勁，這對於 Spotify 的發展歷程來說非常典型，因為我們有季節性，並不總是遵循訂閱者的邏輯。

The question is if this is going to require additional marketing? The answer is we don't see any reason to have higher marketing in relationship to sales this year than we had previous years. So we continue to drive this in the way we've done.

問題是這是否需要額外的行銷？答案是，我們認為今年的行銷與銷售的比例沒有理由高於前幾年。因此，我們將繼續按照我們的做法推動這項進程。

All right. Next question is from Michael Morris on Superfans. Daniel, in February, you referenced your excitement for a Superfan product that you had been using. Can you share more details about what makes you enthusiastic about the product and when it may be available in the market?

好的。下一個問題來自邁克爾莫里斯關於超級粉絲的問題。丹尼爾，二月的時候，你曾提到你對一直在使用的 Superfan 產品的興奮之情。您能否分享更多細節，說明為什麼您對該產品充滿熱情，以及何時它會在市場上推出？

Alex here. I'll start and then Daniel can chime in. If you allow me, let me just pull back the lens for a second. So yes, we do have a great position with regards to monetization and as you know, this is because of our sort of intense focus on increasing our value to price ratio, our premium offering. And we will continue to do so with all the features and investments into music. You heard us talk about video podcast and across the verticals. And we will raise the price when it makes sense for the business, as we have said before.

這裡是亞歷克斯。我先開始，然後丹尼爾可以加入。如果您允許的話，請讓我將鏡頭拉回一秒鐘。所以是的，我們在貨幣化方面確實佔據著有利地位，正如你所知，這是因為我們非常注重提高我們的性價比和優質產品。我們將繼續致力於音樂方面的各項功能和投資。您聽到我們談論視訊播客和跨垂直領域。正如我們之前所說，當對業務有意義時，我們會提高價格。

Now with regards to higher tiers, we see great potential in them as we've mentioned before. So creating higher tiers around new offerings is something we are working towards as a really opens up new opportunities to delight users matters.

現在，關於更高層次，正如我們之前提到的，我們看到了它們的巨大潛力。因此，我們正在努力圍繞新產品創造更高層次的產品，因為這確實開闢了新的機會來取悅用戶。

A new value-to-price ratio, if you will. And of course, we need alignment and support from our industry partners to offer these kinds of new experiences to our users. And I think it's also worth noting that we will continue to look for new ways to invest in our premium offering as we've done all along.

如果你願意的話，這是一種新的價值價格比。當然，我們需要產業夥伴的配合和支持，才能為我們的用戶提供這些新體驗。我認為還值得注意的是，我們將一如既往地繼續尋找新的方式來投資我們的優質產品。

Yeah. Maybe I could just sort of jump in and add to that, too. If you sort of look at the overall picture, Spotify is now a quite sizable business but also a sizable platform. And typically, what's interesting is that you've kind of gotten here pretty much with just the same freemium model that we launched and started working on now 19 years ago.

是的。或許我也可以加入補充這一點。如果從整體來看，Spotify 現在不僅是一個規模相當大的企業，也是一個相當大的平台。典型的有趣之處在於，你幾乎是用我們 19 年前推出並開始實施的免費增值模式走到今天的。

And so, what naturally happens is the market evolves is that you typically end up segmenting the market. And that's always been a very good business strategy, and we're just in the early innings of doing that here. So I think you should expect for the near term and midterm growth when it comes to the just working on our existing subscriptions, the family plans, all of these things is plenty enough for us.

因此，市場自然會發生變化，最終你通常會對市場進行細分。這一直是個非常好的商業策略，我們現在才剛開始實施這個策略。因此，我認為你應該期待短期和中期的成長，當涉及到我們現有的訂閱、家庭計畫時，所有這些對我們來說已經足夠了。

It's going to be really great. But for the very, very long term, it is an upside opportunity for Spotify, but I think one where if I look at it from the music industry standpoint, this is a huge part for the music industry. But for the near term, the way to think about it for Spotify is, we're not dependent on that for growth, but we want to make it happen. So this is really one where I would put, again, the emphasis is for the superfan, we do need the partners to come to the table and be part of this journey.

這將會非常棒。但從非常長遠來看，這對 Spotify 來說是一個上行機會，但我認為，如果從音樂產業的角度來看，這對音樂產業來說是一個巨大的進步。但就短期而言，Spotify 的成長並不依賴於此，但我們希望實現這一目標。因此，我再次強調，對於超級粉絲來說，我們確實需要合作夥伴參與這趟旅程。

All right. Our next question is going to come from Justin Patterson on AI. Companies like Shopify and Duolingo are now prioritizing being AI-first to enable employees to work more efficiently, while also limiting headcount growth. How are you thinking about AI as a means of enabling both product velocity and introducing more efficiencies throughout the organization?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自賈斯汀·帕特森關於人工智慧的問題。Shopify 和 Duolingo 等公司現在優先考慮採用人工智慧，以使員工能夠更有效率地工作，同時也限制員工人數的成長。您如何看待人工智慧作為提高產品速度和整個組織效率的手段？

Thank you, Justin. This is Gustav. So we're already back in 2018, we said internally that machine learning, as AI was called back then, was the product. What we're fundamentally trying to do as a company is to understand you as a user. And that's really the chief reason that you stay around.

謝謝你，賈斯汀。這是古斯塔夫。所以我們已經回到了 2018 年，我們在內部說過，機器學習（當時稱為 AI）就是產品。作為一家公司，我們最根本要做的就是了解您作為用戶。這確實是你留下來的主要原因。

So we've invested and we keep investing towards that. And AI is really the next step and evolution of that, where machine learning allowed personalization, AI also allows for real-time interactivity and reasoning on top of your data.

因此，我們已經進行了投資，並將繼續為此進行投資。人工智慧實際上是下一步的發展，其中機器學習允許個性化，人工智慧還允許在數據上進行即時互動和推理。

Early examples of this, for example, air playlists that recently rolled out to 40 markets. And this is really the first time that we actually allow our users to talk to us and tell us what they want and how they feel about Spotify and Play in English. That's very exciting for us on the product side.

例如，早期的例子是最近向 40 個市場推出的廣播播放清單。這確實是我們第一次真正允許用戶與我們交談，告訴我們他們想要什麼以及他們對 Spotify 和 Play 的感受（用英語）。對於我們產品方面來說這非常令人興奮。

On the internal sort of productivity side, there is the obvious usage of coding tools, which we are leveraging fully as a company. Right now, this is mostly useful when writing net new code, which is why you see such speed ups in start-ups and mostly write net new code.

在內部生產力方面，編碼工具的使用顯而易見，我們公司正在充分利用這些工具。目前，這在編寫全新程式碼時非常有用，這就是為什麼您會看到新創公司的速度如此之快，並且大多編寫的是全新程式碼。

But the tools are quickly getting much better at understanding large code bases and making them much more useful for this things that we do that are often about peer-reviewing of code and large code bases and refactoring.

但是這些工具在理解大型程式碼庫方面正在迅速變得更好，並使它們對於我們所做的事情更有用，這些事情通常是對程式碼和大型程式碼庫進行同行評審和重構。

But we're also seeing AI being used in the rest of the product development cycle, specifically in prototyping of new experiences that move much more quickly and with higher fidelity and then less dependence on key engineering resources. So I expect that this will help us accelerate product development. I expect that the next place will see impact of AI is probably in the planning process, which is an important part for our quite specific execution model.

但我們也看到人工智慧被用於產品開發週期的其餘部分，特別是在新體驗的原型設計中，這種體驗的進展更快、保真度更高，對關鍵工程資源的依賴也更少。因此我希望這將有助於我們加速產品開發。我預計下一個看到人工智慧影響的地方可能是在規劃過程中，這對我們非常具體的執行模型來說是一個重要部分。

In general, I would say that as in previous technology shifts at Spotify, I haven't found the need to actually force our organization to adopt new tools or AI at all on the opposite, our staff is usually very excited about all new technology and they're usually way ahead of the curve.

總的來說，我想說，就像 Spotify 之前的技術轉變一樣，我發現沒有必要真正強迫我們的組織採用新工具或人工智慧。相反，我們的員工通常對所有新技術都感到非常興奮，而且他們通常走在時代的前沿。

But the real job for me and us as managers is to enable them to use AI by signing the right tools, removing legal bookers around data usage, exposing the right data sets, et cetera, for these tools to actually be useful and safe used for employees on top of proprietary company data. So that's where we've invested in the last two years actually, and the adoption itself is not a challenge for us. I'm very excited about that.

但對我和我們這些管理者來說，真正的工作是讓他們能夠使用人工智慧，透過簽署正確的工具，消除數據使用方面的法律障礙，公開正確的數據集等，使這些工具真正有用，並可供員工在專有公司數據之上安全地使用。所以其實這就是我們過去兩年來投資的地方，採用本身對我們來說並不是一個挑戰。我對此感到非常興奮。

Okay. Our next question is going to come from Jessica Reif Ehrlich on podcaster payouts. The 100 million in payouts to podcasters is a milestone. Can you provide color on the economics of this business? What are the KPIs we should focus on to monitor this business? And how would you define success?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自傑西卡·雷夫·埃利希 (Jessica Reif Ehrlich)，關於播客報酬的問題。向播客支付 1 億美元是一個里程碑。您能否提供一下該業務的經濟狀況？監控這項業務時我們應該關注哪些 KPI？您如何定義成功？

Maybe I'll start and then Alex can chime in. So overall, on the economics of this side, this is all factored into all the forecasts that we've been doing, and it's pretty much in line with what we expected. So do you want to make that clear, and that sort of should be dovetailed into Christian's comments around where we believe the business will be over the coming quarters, but also where we'll finish the year. So we feel really good about this part.

也許我會先開始，然後亞歷克斯可以加入。因此，總體而言，就這方面的經濟因素而言，這些都已考慮到我們所做的所有預測中，並且與我們的預期基本一致。所以你想把這一點說清楚嗎？這應該與克里斯蒂安的評論相吻合，關於我們認為未來幾季的業務將會如何，以及我們將在年底如何。所以我們對這部分感覺非常好。

Now you asked about sort of the KPIs here. The real KPIs that certainly I'm focused on that I think is an important one, and this is important maybe to, to contextualize, this isn't a pivot to video. But actually, the way to think about this is that every time we're adding new formats to the service, it expands the time spent by our users. So there are more times during a day where we become more valuable to consumers.

現在您詢問的是這裡的 KPI 類型。我當然關注的真正的 KPI 是我認為重要的一個，而且這可能很重要，從上下文來看，這不是影片的重點。但實際上，我們應該這樣想：每次為服務新增格式時，都會延長使用者使用的時間。因此，我們在一天中有更多的時間對消費者產生更大的價值。

So if you think about it and put it by historical analogies, so obviously, we started as a music first service. When we added podcast, there was a lot of questions and concerns, I think, from everyone that podcasts will cannibalize music and so on. But actually, net-net, what ended up happening is we just saw more hours spent by these consumers, which meant, of course, higher retention, which then, of course, meant lower churn. So all of these things are net added.

所以如果你仔細想想，並用歷史類比來類比，那麼很明顯，我們一開始提供的是音樂服務。當我們添加播客時，我認為每個人都有很多疑問和擔憂，擔心播客會蠶食音樂等等。但實際上，最終的結果是，我們看到這些消費者花了更多時間，這當然意味著更高的保留率，進而意味著更低的客戶流失率。所以所有這些都是淨增加的。

And so as we then added Audiobooks, we yet again saw a very similar trend, which is if you're listening to music, you're listening to podcasts and you're listening to Audiobooks, you're spending more time than ones who are just doing either one of these things or even music and podcasting.

因此，當我們添加有聲讀物時，我們再次看到了非常相似的趨勢，那就是如果你在聽音樂、聽播客和聽有聲讀物，你花的時間會比那些只做其中一件事或甚至聽音樂和播客的人更多。

And so with video, although it's early days, I expect the same thing to be true again, which is people will just spend more time with Spotify, it is actually additive to the overall times when we are now relevant to a consumer's life. So that's the primary success metric in KPI you should be looking at engagement in that segment and engagement totally on the Spotify service, and that's very much what we're looking at.

對於影片來說，儘管現在還處於早期階段，但我預計同樣的事情會再次發生，那就是人們會花更多的時間在 Spotify 上，這實際上會增加我們與消費者生活相關的整體時間。因此，這是 KPI 中的主要成功指標，您應該關注該細分市場的參與度以及 Spotify 服務的整體參與度，而這正是我們所關注的。

And the only thing I have to add is that the EUR100 million payout that you're referencing audio and video podcast includes both SPP payout and advertising revenue that we run free. So while we hope to see SPP grow, to Daniel's point, it drives engagement. This is all in line with our expectation of margin expansion.

我唯一要補充的是，您提到的 1 億歐元音訊和視訊播客支出包括 SPP 支出和我們免費經營的廣告收入。因此，雖然我們希望看到 SPP 成長，但正如 Daniel 所說，它推動了參與。這一切都符合我們對利潤率擴大的預期。

Great. We've got another question from Jessica Reif Ehrlich on advertising. Can you provide some commentary on your overall advertising business? Your shareholder letter mentioned softness in advertising pricing. And on the other hand, you're seeing significant new demand from programmatic advertising with the addition of multiple DSPs.

偉大的。我們收到了傑西卡·賴夫·埃利希 (Jessica Reif Ehrlich) 關於廣告的另一個問題。您能對您的整體廣告業務發表一些評論嗎？您的股東信中提到了廣告定價疲軟。另一方面，隨著多個 DSP 的加入，您會看到程式化廣告的新需求顯著增加。

Hey, Jessica. Alex, here again. So first, if you let me, I want to point something out. And that's that there may be uncertainty in the world. But with regards to ads at Spotify, we're seeing strong internal tailwinds. There's a lot of potential, thanks to the unified ad stack that we've built.

嘿，潔西卡。亞歷克斯，又來了。因此首先，如果您允許的話，我想指出一些事情。那就是世界上可能存在不確定性。但就 Spotify 的廣告而言，我們看到了強勁的內部順風。由於我們建立了統一的廣告堆棧，因此有很大的潛力。

For some of you who attended the advertising event that we threw here in New York, you saw us talking about how advertisers now have new ways to create, buy and measure, it's really about offering advertising clients more choice. They can now buy from us directly. They can buy via APIs. It can buy programmatically via DSPs like you're mentioning here, and also, of course, self-serve.

對於參加我們在紐約舉辦的廣告活動的一些人來說，你們看到我們談論廣告商現在如何擁有新的創作、購買和衡量方式，這實際上是為了給廣告客戶提供更多選擇。他們現在可以直接從我們這裡購買。他們可以透過 API 購買。它可以透過您在此處提到的 DSP 以程式設計方式購買，當然也可以自助服務。

So really, we've gone from thousands to tens of thousands of advertisers on the platform. And this is the reason why we have momentum in revenue growth. But maybe the most important takeaway, I think, is that by now welcoming all sorts of demand instead of limiting and capping to brand sales and sales teams, we now have a very strong foundation for future revenue growth in the ads business.

因此，實際上，我們平台上的廣告商數量已從數千增加到數萬。這就是我們的營收成長勢頭強勁的原因。但我認為，也許最重要的收穫是，現在我們歡迎各種需求，而不是限制和限製品牌銷售和銷售團隊，我們現在為未來廣告業務的收入成長奠定了非常堅實的基礎。

All right. Our next question is going to come from Rich Greenfield on subscriber growth. You reported your second highest Q1 net adds in premium subs despite a continued reduction in marketing spend year-over-year. Help us understand how you're adding more subs that meaningfully exceeded your expectations while spending less to acquire those subs? What's driving that dynamic?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自 Rich Greenfield 關於用戶成長的問題。儘管行銷支出較去年同期持續減少，但你們報告稱第一季高端訂閱用戶淨增額達到第二高。幫助我們了解您如何增加更多訂閱者，從而大大超出您的預期，同時又花費更少的錢來獲取這些訂閱者？是什麼推動了這種動態？

I'll start by saying this, Rich, with regards to our overall subs growth, the encouraging thing is that even in uncertain times, the underlying performance is really strong. So right now, the underlying data at the moment is super healthy. Engagement remains high with strong retention and the premium model really provides flexibility.

首先我要說的是，Rich，關於我們整體訂閱量的成長，令人鼓舞的是，即使在不確定的時期，潛在的表現仍然非常強勁。因此，目前的基礎數據非常健康。參與度依然很高，保留率很高，而且高級模式確實提供了靈活性。

And as far as the dynamic you're talking to, it's really the -- goes back to how we sort of intensely focus on the value to price ratio. So what we've found is a truism is that whenever you add more value to our subscribers. And whenever this value-to-price ratio goes up, what we're seeing is that there's incrementality in growth. And this is all of the time a better way to spend the dollar than to spend an incremental dollar in marketing.

至於您談論的動態，這實際上就是——回到我們如何密切關注價值與價格的比率。因此，我們發現一個真理是，無論何時你都會為我們的訂閱者增加更多價值。每當價值價格比上升時，我們就會看到成長的增量。與在行銷上增加投入相比，這始終是一種更好的花錢方式。

So it's much more efficient investment. But I also want to say that what you're seeing right now is really the result of us developing a very strong product market fit in developed markets. The market continues to grow, and we're taking a larger share of the market, and this is happening in parallel with price increases. Really hard to ask for better.

因此，這是一種更有效的投資。但我也想說，您現在看到的其實是我們在已開發市場開發出非常強大的產品市場契合度的結果。市場持續成長，我們佔據的市場份額越來越大，而這也與價格上漲同步發生。真的很難要求更好。

I just should add also on the marketing side. I think there's two tailwinds. I think the team has really gotten a lot better on organic media and just being really smart around how we leverage that the FC Barcelona partnership is a great example where, although we're sponsoring the club itself, much of the media itself around social media and discussions because of dynamics we're doing, such as the music partnerships, et cetera.

我還應該補充一下行銷方面的內容。我認為有兩個順風。我認為團隊在有機媒體方面確實取得了很大進步，而且我們非常聰明地利用了與巴塞隆納足球俱樂部的合作夥伴關係，這是一個很好的例子，儘管我們贊助了俱樂部本身，但由於我們正在進行的動態，例如音樂合作等，許多媒體本身都圍繞著社交媒體和討論。

So I'm really happy to see that. And then when you layer on top of that, of course, like many others, we're using more and more AI tools that increases targeting and efficiency. So I think that's a more general trend than Spotify specific trend though, but that should definitely help drive this.

所以我很高興看到這一點。然後，當你在此基礎上進行分層時，當然，像許多其他人一樣，我們正在使用越來越多的 AI 工具來提高針對性和效率。所以我認為這是一個比 Spotify 特定趨勢更普遍的趨勢，但它肯定有助於推動這一點。

All right. Our next question is from Justin Patterson on the Spotify Partner Program. The Spotify Partner Program strikes us as countercyclical for creators since it provides more revenue certainty than ad-based models. As we head into a choppier macro environment where ad models could be pressured, how are you thinking about investment levels to attract more creators?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自賈斯汀·帕特森 (Justin Patterson)，有關 Spotify 合作夥伴計劃。Spotify 合作夥伴計畫給我們的印像是，它對創作者來說是反週期的，因為它比基於廣告的模式提供了更多的收入確定性。當我們進入一個更動盪的宏觀環境，廣告模式可能面臨壓力時，您如何考慮投資程度以吸引更多的創作者？

Sorry, Justin. That's a good question. comes back to how we're really thinking about our catalog and what that does for our users. We believe in catalog maximization. So the more catalog we add, the more ways to interact with that catalog, it just drives more engagement. And the way to do that when it comes to the audio and video podcasting, really to create something that's good for our creators platform. So as long as we can make them want to add more content, it will be a good thing when it comes to engagement. And that's how we're going to dial our investment.

抱歉，賈斯汀。這是個好問題。回到我們如何真正考慮我們的目錄以及它對我們的用戶有什麼作用。我們相信目錄最大化。因此，我們添加的目錄越多，與該目錄互動的方式就越多，這只會帶來更多的參與。在音訊和視訊播客方面，做到這一點的方法實際上是創建一些對我們的創作者平台有益的東西。因此，只要我們能夠讓他們想要添加更多內容，這對參與度來說就是一件好事。這就是我們進行投資的方式。

All right. Our next question is going to come from Matt Thornton on video. Daniel, as we think about video content that could be accretive to engagement, retention, monetization and gross margin, is there any reason why a free ad-supported streaming TV offering wouldn't work on Spotify?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自影片中的馬特桑頓。丹尼爾，當我們考慮可以增加參與度、保留率、貨幣化和毛利率的影片內容時，有什麼理由可以解釋為什麼免費的廣告支援的串流電視服務無法在 Spotify 上運行？

I'll start and maybe Gustav can chime in. But I think structurally, there's obviously no reason why it wouldn't work. But maybe to contextualize and describe our video strategy, the most important reason why we have added video is because creators are asking us for it.

我先開始，也許古斯塔夫可以加入。但我認為從結構上來說，它顯然沒有理由不起作用。但也許為了具體化和描述我們的影片策略，我們添加影片的最重要原因是創作者要求我們這樣做。

So while I'm sure at some point, there will be an opportunity for us to add entirely new creators onto the platform, the real goal that we've been going after is what we realized is so many of our existing creators wanted to express themselves in different ways.

因此，雖然我確信在某個時候，我們將有機會將全新的創作者添加到平台上，但我們一直追求的真正目標是，我們意識到許多現有的創作者都希望以不同的方式表達自己。

And you've seen us over the past few years now add that with everything from music creators now being able to have full length music videos onto the platform and with the start of Rogan, but then subsequently, several others wanted to upload more videos to the platform, too.

在過去的幾年裡，你已經看到我們不斷增加，從音樂創作者現在可以將完整的音樂影片上傳到平台上，到 Rogan 的推出，但隨後，其他幾個人也希望將更多影片上傳到平台上。

And that's really where this started. And I would generally observe and say, the best things at Spotify has started like that, where there's -- people are literally telling us why aren't you doing this? And this is kind of how this began. But obviously, with the success of that, we can go from there. I don't know, Gustav, if you had anything else to add.

這就是事情真正的開始。我通常會觀察並說，Spotify 最好的事情都是這樣開始的，人們會直接告訴我們為什麼不這樣做？事情就是這樣開始的。但顯然，有了這次的成功，我們就可以從那裡繼續前進。古斯塔夫，我不知道你還有什麼要補充的。

I think you covered most of it. We're very happy with the TV experiences that we have and the engagement that we see. And we've updated and improved our TV experience significantly during this year. In many markets, you also have not just podcast video, but also music video, which is performing really well. So this is very interesting for us.

我認為你已經涵蓋了大部分內容。我們對所擁有的電視體驗和所看到的參與度感到非常滿意。今年，我們顯著更新和改善了我們的電視體驗。在許多市場中，不僅有播客視頻，還有音樂視頻，而且表現非常好。這對我們來說非常有趣。

All right. Our next question comes from Michael Morris on financials. Do your first quarter results fully reflect any financial impact from your recent rights renewal with Universal and Warner Music? Is your new direct publishing relationships impact your costs? And did Q1 reflect a full quarter of impact?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自邁克爾·莫里斯關於財務的問題。你們第一季的業績是否充分反映了最近與環球音樂和華納音樂續簽版權所帶來的財務影響？您的新直接出版關係是否會影響您的成本？Q1 是否反映了整個季度的影響？

Thank you, Michael. Of course, we have audited IFRS statements that we submit to the market, and we follow all the regulations at hand. And of course, yes, we -- everything that we have signed and contracted is reflected on our financial numbers in the way we have agreed with and in the way we have entered the contract. So the answer is yes.

謝謝你，麥可。當然，我們向市場提交的 IFRS 報表已經過審計，並且我們遵守所有現行法規。當然，是的，我們簽署和承包的所有文件都以我們同意的方式和簽訂合約的方式反映在我們的財務數字上。所以答案是肯定的。

All right. Another question from Justin Patterson on Audiobooks. Audiobooks industry stats suggest Spotify's bundling initiative is helping expand the market. As you look toward driving more growth in 2025 and beyond, what do you view as the next major product updates to make Audiobooks more habitual? And how important is non-English content for international growth?

好的。賈斯汀·帕特森 (Justin Patterson) 提出了另一個關於有聲書的問題。有聲書行業統計數據表明，Spotify 的捆綁計劃正在幫助擴大市場。當您展望 2025 年及以後推動更多成長時，您認為下一次重大產品更新是什麼，才能讓有聲書成為人們的習慣？非英語內容對於國際化發展有多重要？

I can take that, Gustav, Justin. So I think if you look at it big picture, there is tremendous opportunity for just sort of old-school product development within Audiobooks. It's a category that has been stagnant from user experience for a long time. And we consider ourselves a good product company. So that is definitely one of our strategies just improving the experience. That can be done in several ways.

我可以接受，古斯塔夫，賈斯汀。因此，我認為，如果從宏觀角度來看，有聲書對於傳統產品開發來說有著巨大的機會。這是一個在用戶體驗方面長期停滯不前的類別。我們認為自己是一家生產優質產品的公司。所以這絕對是我們改善體驗的策略之一。這可以透過多種方式實現。

As you mentioned, the ability to quickly understand and get back into a book is something that we think we can improve through better personalization. We think discovery of books can be drastically improved as well using AI and personalization.

正如您所說，我們認為可以透過更好的個人化來提高快速理解和重新閱讀書籍的能力。我們認為，利用人工智慧和個人化也可以大大改善書籍的發現。

And when it comes to non-English content, you've seen that we've announced that we're working with ElevenLabs, which we think is a great opportunity for authors to get their books from text audio in the first place, but also potentially from one language to another. So we think there's plenty of opportunity in the combination of product development and AI here.

說到非英語內容，您已經看到我們宣布正在與 ElevenLabs 合作，我們認為這對作者來說是一個很好的機會，讓他們首先將他們的書籍從文本音頻中獲取，但也可能從一種語言轉換為另一種語言。因此，我們認為產品開發和人工智慧的結合有很多機會。

Our next question is going to come from Rich Greenfield on pricing. Daniel, in the Q1 recap video you released this morning, you mentioned Spotify is 19 years old. When we think about the pricing, the cost of Spotify has only risen $2 from $10 to $12 since you launched, how big of an opportunity is pricing over the next several years?

我們的下一個問題來自 Rich Greenfield 關於定價的問題。丹尼爾，在您今天早上發布的第一季度回顧影片中，您提到 Spotify 已經 19 歲了。當我們考慮定價時，自推出以來，Spotify 的成本僅從 10 美元上漲至 12 美元，上漲了 2 美元，而未來幾年的定價機會有多大？

Yeah. Maybe just to contextualize this, and Alex is clearly the expert here, but I'll start. So I think the -- it's really important to understand that there's various levers you can pull at various stages. So the first inning of Spotify, and I've talked about this in prior earnings having more legs to the stool it's really only growth, growth, growth.

是的。也許只是為了將其具體化，亞歷克斯顯然是這方面的專家，但我先開始吧。所以我認為——真正重要的是要了解在各個階段可以利用的各種槓桿。因此，Spotify 的第一局，我在先前的收益報告中已經談到過這一點，它有更多的支柱，實際上只是成長、成長、成長。

And in fact, at the very first inning, we didn't even bother all that much about conversion because the key goal was just getting people in the door, which is why we focus really on just a very strong free experience and a very basic sort of subscription experience.

事實上，在最初階段，我們甚至沒有太多關注轉換率，因為主要目標只是吸引用戶，這就是為什麼我們真正關注的只是非常強大的免費體驗和非常基本的訂閱體驗。

Then over time, we kind of added one more level to the stool where we've got a lot better at converting people from free to paid. We did so by adding things like the family plan and student plans and so on. But the story I'm really here trying to paint is that in the very early innings, the primary way to grow is probably to keep that value at an insanely good deal. And that's really where we started with Spotify. It was just an insanely good deal. It was just too good to be true. And that's what led to much of the early growth.

隨著時間的推移，我們又增加了一個級別，使我們更善於將人們從免費轉變為付費。我們透過添加家庭計劃、學生計劃等來實現這一目標。但我在這裡真正想要描繪的故事是，在非常早期的階段，成長的主要方式可能是將這個價值保持在一個非常好的水平。這就是我們創立 Spotify 的真正起點。這真是一筆非常好的交易。這簡直好得難以置信。這就是早期成長的主要原因。

And in that stage, when you're still growing super fast raising prices is not a smart strategy. As growth then sort of modulates as you get larger and larger into the market, then pricing becomes another part of the stool, leg to the stool, another lever to pull.

在那個階段，當你仍然快速成長時，提高價格並不是一個明智的策略。隨著企業在市場上的規模越來越大，成長也會隨之調整，定價就會成為凳子的另一部分、凳子的腿、另一個需要拉動的槓桿。

And so that's the way to think about that. And that's where we started showing and flexing beforehand. And we're just in the early innings, and I talked about it in the last answer. I still believe there will be more segmentation. That's just one example in the future. But yeah, I think the opportunity is big. I don't know, Alex, if you've got more things to add.

這就是思考這個問題的方式。這就是我們事先開始展示和炫耀的地方。我們才剛開始，我在上一個回答中談到了這一點。我仍然相信會有更多的細分。這只是未來的一個例子。但是是的，我認為機會很大。我不知道，亞歷克斯，你是否還有其他事情要補充。

Yeah. I think Rich, Spotify continues to be one of the absolute best value payment, and when we look at churn, this continues to be quite modest even as we raise prices in different markets. And as we've said many times before, prices are -- now price increases are now part of our toolbox. And we take steps to the value to price ratio over time by adding value and then we adjust the price when it come -- when it makes sense for the market.

是的。我認為，Rich，Spotify 仍然是絕對最有價值的支付方式之一，而且當我們看待客戶流失率時，即使我們在不同的市場提高價格，這一比例仍然相當低。正如我們之前多次說過的，價格上漲現在是我們工具箱的一部分。我們會逐步透過增加價值來提高價值價格比，然後在市場合理的時候調整價格。

Just to give you sort of a little bit of insight into how we deal with this. And it's to Daniel's point, we certainly focus more on value than on price. And the reason for that internally for us is that we know that long term, the customers always win or the subscriber shown here. And so the more we sort of focus on value, the more we'll be able to.

只是為了讓您稍微了解一下我們如何處理這個問題。正如丹尼爾所說，我們當然更關注價值而不是價格。我們這樣做的內部原因是，我們知道從長遠來看，客戶或這裡顯示的訂閱者總是會受益。因此，我們越關注價值，就越能做到。

Right. Next question from Jessica Reif Ehrlich on capital allocation. Your cash position has grown to EUR8 billion. What are your capital allocation priorities, including returns to shareholders?

正確的。下一個問題來自 Jessica Reif Ehrlich，關於資本配置。您的現金部位已成長至80億歐元。您的資本配置重點是什麼，包括股東回報？

Thank you, Jessica. I think I did allude a little bit in my remark on this, but I'll come back. Just to remind us a little bit that we are -- we just last year made our first year of profitability. So when we look at Spotify, we do have a strong balance sheet, but we're also just coming out becoming profitable and also having a sustainable cash flow. So this is really in an early stage for us in that journey.

謝謝你，潔西卡。我想我在評論中確實提到了這一點，但我會再說。只是稍微提醒一下我們——我們去年剛剛實現了第一年盈利。因此，當我們看 Spotify 時，我們確實擁有強大的資產負債表，但我們也剛開始獲利並擁有可持續的現金流。所以對我們來說，這確實還處於這趟旅程的早期階段。

That said, also in the environment we are today, and, in the future, we want to continue to support and have the flexibility to deliver on our strategy. And that means that we want to, at all time, be able to focus on our growth opportunities, and we want to have a strong balance sheet to be able to do that. And that's really our first priority at this stage. And then we will -- as time goes here to the extent cash -- I mean, the extent excess capacity rises, we will, of course, take shareholders into consideration.

也就是說，在我們今天和未來的環境中，我們希望繼續支持並靈活地實現我們的策略。這意味著我們希望始終能夠專注於我們的成長機會，並且我們希望擁有強大的資產負債表來實現這一點。這確實是我們現階段的首要任務。然後，隨著時間的推移，隨著現金的增加，我的意思是，隨著過剩產能的增加，我們當然會考慮到股東的利益。

The next question from Benjamin Black on revenue growth. At your Investor Day, you spoke about an annual constant currency revenue growth target of 20% year-on-year. It seems like that may be challenging this year. Do you still think it's achievable? And if so, what gives you the confidence to reaccelerate growth?

本傑明·布萊克的下一個問題是關於收入成長。在投資者日上，您談到了以固定貨幣計算的年度收入成長目標，即年增 20%。今年似乎會面臨挑戰。您仍然認為這是可以實現的嗎？如果是的話，是什麼讓您有信心重新加速成長？

Yeah. Look, the -- as much as I know everyone likes to make this journey linear. It's unfortunately not. And as you've heard from many of the answers by myself or Christian or Alex and Gustav, what we're relentlessly focused on, first and foremost, is increasing that value to consumers. And while doing so and when we feel confident that we have increased that value growth, both in absolute number of users and in price comes.

是的。看，據我所知，每個人都喜歡讓這趟旅程變得線性。不幸的是，事實並非如此。正如您從我本人、克里斯蒂安、亞歷克斯和古斯塔夫的許多回答中聽到的那樣，我們始終不懈地關注的首要問題是增加消費者的價值。在這樣做的同時，我們確信我們已經實現了價值成長，無論是絕對用戶數量還是價格。

Now I wish I could say to you guys that this is sort of entirely linear of this path, and we can plot it out on a month-by-month basis. And every quarter, we had some predictable price increase. It's just not how it works. But what gives me then confidence going forward is when you look at it, we've done it many times before. In fact, I think it was it a year ago or 1.5 years ago, we got some similar conversations where people thought we were slowing down.

現在我希望我可以告訴你們，這條路徑完全是線性的，我們可以按月繪製出來。每個季度，我們的價格都會出現可預見的上漲。事情並不是這樣運作的。但讓我對未來充滿信心的是，我們之前已經做過很多次了。事實上，我想大概是在一年前或一年半前，我們就進行過一些類似的對話，當時人們認為我們的速度慢了下來。

And we started showing that there was another leg to the stool, which was price increases and then our revenue growth then increased as a consequence. And what was interesting back then, the revenue growth was just not entirely a function of price increases, but it was actually a function of price increases and much higher subscriber growth than people expected in the past as well.

我們開始證明還有另一個辦法，那就是提高價格，這樣我們的收入就會跟著成長。當時有趣的是，收入成長並不完全是價格上漲的結果，而是價格上漲和用戶成長（遠高於人們過去的預期）的結果。

So I wish I could say to you guys that this is a linear journey. It's not. But what I will say, ultimately for us is we are focusing on speeding up our execution because if we are executing faster, we will solve problems faster. If we're solving problems faster, we will add more value.

所以我希望可以告訴你們，這是一趟線性旅程。它不是。但我想說的是，最終我們專注於加快執行速度，因為如果我們執行得更快，我們就能更快解決問題。如果我們能夠更快地解決問題，我們將創造更多價值。

And if we're adding more value faster, then we'll have more opportunities to either take that in the context of having a lower price but higher effective growth in certain markets or take it in terms of a price increase that then gives us growth that way.

如果我們能夠更快地增加價值，那麼我們將有更多的機會，要么在某些市場以較低的價格實現更高的有效增長，要么以提價的方式實現增長。

So I still very much believe that this business is a lot bigger than most people give credit for being. In fact, because it's 19 years, I do want to reflect back a little bit on history. I'm feeling in a little bit of reflective mood today. But I remember back in the day when we hit 1 million subscribers, and we had an internal strategy days where I said the goal was to get to 100 million subscribers.

因此我仍然堅信，這項業務比大多數人認為的要大得多。事實上，因為已經19年了，我確實想回顧歷史。我今天感覺有點沉思。但我記得當我們的用戶數量達到 100 萬時，我們有一個內部策略日，我說我們的目標是達到 1 億用戶。

And I communicated that around the same time to the music industry. And I think most of them thought I was completely nuts. And for them, I think it was even crazy to imagine that the whole industry, let alone one player would have 100 million. And obviously, we're way past that now.

大約在同一時間，我向音樂界傳達了這個訊息。我想他們中的大多數人都認為我完全瘋了。對他們來說，我認為想像整個產業，更不用說一個參與者擁有 1 億的財富都是瘋狂的。顯然，我們現在已經遠遠超越了那個階段。

And if you ask me, what is the North Star goal here on how many number of paying customers we could get, I don't know, but I don't see it impossible to get to 1 billion subscribers. And where does that plot us on a year-over-year growth rate? I don't really know. I'm not entirely focused on it, but it's a much, much larger business than the one we're currently operating.

如果你問我，北極星的目標是什麼，我們可以獲得多少付費客戶，我不知道，但我認為獲得 10 億訂閱用戶並非不可能。那麼，這對我們每年的年成長率意味著什麼？我真的不知道。我並沒有完全專注於此，但它的業務比我們目前經營的業務大得多。

I'm saying to say 100 million. I definitely believe that.

我說的是1億。我絕對相信這一點。

You were one of few believers. I guess that's why you're still here.

你是少數信徒之一。我想這就是你還在這裡的原因。

All right. Our next question is going to be from Benjamin Black. The topic is noise. Daniel, you spoke about near-term noise. Can you elaborate on that a little? What should investors be braced for financially? How long will the noise last? And how should this noise manifest itself in terms of new product launches or improved consumer value?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自本傑明·布萊克。主題是噪音。丹尼爾，你談到了近期的噪音。能詳細說明一下嗎？投資人應該做好哪些財務準備？噪音會持續多久？這種噪音應該如何體現在新產品發布或消費者價值提升上？

Yeah. Maybe I should contextualize this, too. When I talked about noise, I wasn't necessarily referring to Spotify. I was referring to the broader markets. So just for context to everyone, I don't see anything in our business right now that gives me any sort of pause or concern. Obviously, I can't know everything that's going on in the macro environment and what in the future may happen.

是的。也許我也應該將其具體化。當我談到噪音時，我並不一定指 Spotify。我指的是更廣泛的市場。因此，僅供大家參考，目前我還沒有發現我們的業務中有任何讓我停頓或擔憂的事情。顯然，我不可能知道宏觀環境中正在發生的一切以及未來可能發生的一切。

But from where we sit right now, we don't see anything. And I'd be very surprised if long term, we see any sort of major implications to it. So long term, the journey seems really good. We aren't seeing any short-term noise. That was more of my commentary around sort of macro environment that we're all facing at the moment, but nothing specific to Spotify.

但從我們現在的位置來看，我們什麼也沒看到。如果從長遠來看，我們看到它有任何重大影響，我會感到非常驚訝。所以從長遠來看，這趟旅程看起來確實很美好。我們沒有看到任何短期噪音。這更多是我對我們現在面臨的宏觀環境的評論，但與 Spotify 無關。

Okay. Our next question comes from Deepak Mathivanan on video. Can you give us an update on video podcast on the consumption side? Where does penetration currently stand as a share of total consumption? Based on trends, does your view on unit economics of podcasts, have they changed in any capacity?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自影片中的 Deepak Mathivanan。您能否向我們介紹一下消費方面的視訊播客的最新情況？目前滲透率在總消費中所佔的比例是多少？根據趨勢，您對播客單位經濟學的看法是否有改變？

Yeah. Gustav, do you want to maybe start with this one and chime in on the economics.

是的。古斯塔夫，你想從這個開始，談談經濟學嗎？

Sure. What we've seen is tremendous growth in our video upload metrics and also in consumption. As Daniel shared before, we've seen a 44% year-over-year growth in time spent with video content. That's driven mostly by video podcast, obviously.

當然。我們看到影片上傳量和消費量都有了巨大的成長。正如丹尼爾之前分享的那樣，我們看到人們觀看影片內容的時間同比增長了 44%。顯然，這主要是由視訊播客推動的。

And specifically Gen Z are leading this growth, spending at 81% more time with video on Spotify year-over-year, which is very important to us. We've also seen active monthly video podcasts of video episodes published in the last 30 days have increased by 28% since STP launched. So we're very happy with the growth we're seeing, and we expect it to continue.

具體來說，Z 世代引領了這一增長，他們在 Spotify 上觀看影片的時間同比增長了 81%，這對我們來說非常重要。我們還發現，自 STP 推出以來，過去 30 天內發布的視訊劇集的每月活躍視訊播客數量增加了 28%。因此，我們對所看到的成長感到非常高興，我們預計這種成長將會持續下去。

Do you have anything to say about the unit economics?

您對單位經濟學有什麼要說的嗎？

Not more than before investment level up and down by looking at really how well we do for creators and content.

透過真正關注我們為創作者和內容做得如何，投資水準的上下波動不會比以前更大。

Our next question is from Doug Anmuth on monthly active users. What is curbing the first half '25 growth in MAU? And how confident are you that product changes and marketing adjustments will drive more of a rebound in the second half of the year?

我們的下一個問題來自 Doug Anmuth，關於每月活躍用戶。哪些因素抑制了 25 年上半年 MAU 的成長？您對產品變化和行銷調整將在下半年推動更多反彈有多大信心？

Douglas, let me give you the backdrop to this. The best way to predict MAU is to look at the trend of our engagement. So this trend is strong and the leading indicator of engagement in turn is product improvement as in features and content experiences, which is ultimately the way we've managed our business in the past two decades. And the engagement we're seeing right now suggests that become even more central to people's lives, to Daniel's point in the remarks.

道格拉斯，讓我來幫你介紹一下這件事的背景。預測 MAU 的最佳方法是觀察我們的參與趨勢。所以這種趨勢很強勁，而參與度的領先指標則是產品改進，如功能和內容體驗，最終是我們在過去二十年管理業務的方式。正如丹尼爾在演講中指出的那樣，我們現在看到的參與表明，這對人們的生活變得更加重要。

And really, that happens only when you consistently develop solutions that meet more of our users' needs. We see this because people they increase the number of days they spend in a month with us, they increase their time they're spending with us. And you can see this as a result of us investing and launching features like Jam, the new offline mode that we have and our continuously updating the car experience is driving a lot of increased engagement time.

事實上，只有不斷開發出能夠滿足更多使用者需求的解決方案，才能實現這一目標。我們之所以看到這種情況，是因為人們增加了每月與我們在一起的天數，增加了與我們在一起的時間。您可以看到，這是我們投資和推出 Jam 等功能的結果，我們擁有的新離線模式以及我們不斷更新的汽車體驗正在大大增加用戶參與時間。

And then also, obviously, the expansion on video podcast content and Audiobooks as well. So all of this is growing time on platform. And so we -- I mean I think it's early, but we anticipate the 2025 MAU net adds to be in range of what we delivered over the last four years, like we mentioned before. And sort of expect the majority of the growth to come in the back half of the year. And this is, again, like driven by the continued focus on accelerated execution.

然後，顯然視訊播客內容和有聲讀物也得到了擴展。所以所有這些都是在平台上不斷增長的時間。因此，我認為現在還為時過早，但我們預計 2025 年 MAU 淨增值將與我們過去四年的水平持平，就像我們之前提到的那樣。預計大部分成長將在今年下半年實現。這再次受到對加速執行的持續關注的推動。

Maybe just one added thing. So if you look at sort of the softness in Q1, part of that is driven by the outperformance in Q4 because of Wrapped. So if you look at Wrapped, Wrapped in itself is probably one of the big drivers why we're so confident that, that trend of seasonality will end up happening again on the back half of the year.

也許只是添加了一件事。因此，如果你看一下第一季的疲軟表現，你會發現部分原因是因為 Wrapped 在第四季表現優異。因此，如果你看《Wrapped》，《Wrapped》本身可能就是我們如此有信心的一大驅動因素，即季節性趨勢最終會在下半年再次發生。

So Wrapped is a huge, huge cultural thing, not just the Spotify, but it's become a global thing on the Internet where people talk about it. So it is distorting the numbers and that sort of leads to that both softness certainly in Q1, but also general outperformance that's been in now many, many years in Q4. So I just wanted to add that I think that's a quite reliable metric to go by and that's been a very strong growth driver for the company.

因此，《Wrapped》是一個巨大的文化事件，不僅僅是在 Spotify 上，它已經成為網路上人們談論的一個全球性事件。因此，它扭曲了數據，並導致第一季的疲軟，但第四季也出現了多年來的整體優異表現。所以我只想補充一點，我認為這是一個非常可靠的指標，對公司來說是一個非常強勁的成長動力。

Our next question comes from Eric Sheridan on the industry and our overall strategy. Can you discuss the current status of your relationship with the broader industry meaning the content providers? And how should investors think about the prospect of more regular pricing actions, product tiering and gross margin impacts in the years ahead?

我們的下一個問題來自 Eric Sheridan，他談到了產業和我們的整體策略。您能否討論一下您與更廣泛的行業（即內容提供者）的關係的現狀？投資人該如何看待未來幾年更規律的定價行動、產品分級和毛利率影響的前景？

I have an easy answer to that. And it's that, we are now in a situation where the relationship between us and our industry partners is better than ever, better than ever it's been in our history. And that really means that we're really aligned on the incentives here where all of us trying to grow the music industry. And as such, we're really sort of in constant conversation with each other to think about all these things that you're talking about and asking about. And so I foresee this to continue to be the case, and there's going to be even more improvements in the years ahead.

對此我有一個簡單的答案。我們現在與產業夥伴之間的關係比以往任何時候都要好，比我們歷史上的任何時候都要好。這其實意味著我們在激勵措施上是一致的，我們都在努力發展音樂產業。因此，我們實際上一直在不斷地交談，思考您所談論和詢問的所有事情。因此我預見這種情況將持續下去，未來幾年還會有更多的改善。

All right. We've got time for a couple more questions. The next one is going to come from Steven Cahall. It looks like Ad-Supported users declined quarter-on-quarter in the first quarter. Was this due to churn from Wrapped, conversion to premium subs or spot no longer chasing lower-value monthly active users? Can you help us think through the trend?

好的。我們還有時間回答幾個問題。下一個演講者是 Steven Cahall。看起來第一季的廣告支援用戶數量較上季有所下降。這是因為 Wrapped 的用戶流失、轉換為高級訂閱用戶還是不再追逐低價值的每月活躍用戶？您能幫助我們思考一下這個趨勢嗎？

Well, thank you very much. I wish we could give you more detailed answer of how the trend looks like. But the MAU adds in our business and industry has been a little bit more volatile and seasonal than maybe we would like to. So we can see that we have very strong quarter four and second half and weaker first half.

嗯，非常感謝。我希望我們能為您提供有關趨勢的更詳細答案。但是，我們業務和行業的 MAU 成長比我們所希望的更加不穩定和季節性。因此我們可以看到，第四季和下半年表現非常強勁，而上半年表現較弱。

And if we remember what we said also leaving last year we said that we had a very, very strong as you indicated here in your question, we had a very strong quarter with Wrapped and also some competitors in certain markets are left that drove a strong growth that also led to a churn that we expected into quarter one. So that is the reason why we do deliver on our MAU in Q1, but it is lower than maybe some of you have expected from the beginning.

如果我們還記得我們去年說過的話，我們說我們有一個非常非常強勁的表現，正如你在問題中指出的那樣，我們與 Wrapped 合作度過了一個非常強勁的季度，並且某些市場中還有一些競爭對手留下來，推動了強勁的增長，也導致了我們預計第一季度的客戶流失。這就是為什麼我們在第一季實現了每月活躍用戶數，但比你們中的一些人一開始預期的要低的原因。

I'll add to that. There's really two ones you've talked about, Stephen, that are the drivers. The outperformance on Wrapped when you have such a big effect, where we do see churn is obviously in that sort of first month or two and then it sort of as it turns out is much more stable. That's one part of the answer. And then the conversion rate that we saw, especially in emerging markets, is a positive one overall because it means more subscribers, but it does impact the Ad-Supported tier.

我要補充一點。史蒂芬，你談到的驅動因素其實有兩個。當你有如此大的影響時，Wrapped 的表現會非常出色，我們確實會看到客戶流失明顯出現在前一兩個月，然後情況就會變得更加穩定。這是答案的一部分。然後，我們看到的轉換率，特別是在新興市場，總體上是正面的，因為這意味著更多的訂閱者，但它確實影響了廣告支援層。

Typically, conversion rates in emerging markets is lower than in our developed markets. So when we do better on conversion there, you'd probably see it more impacted in MAU.

通常，新興市場的轉換率低於已開發市場。因此，當我們在轉換率方面做得更好時，您可能會看到它對 MAU 產生更大的影響。

And that is the -- also the reason why even we delivered quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year growth in all regions, the majority of the 3 million above in subscribers was actually from emerging markets.

這也是為什麼即使我們在所有地區都實現了季度環比和同比增長，超過 300 萬的用戶中的大多數實際上都來自新興市場。

Okay. Our next question comes from Maria Ripps on subscription plans. Would it make sense for Spotify to introduce a lower priced subscription plan that offers more functionality than the current Ad-Supported there but still includes some level of advertising. What are some of the puts and takes there?

好的。我們的下一個問題來自 Maria Ripps，關於訂閱計劃。Spotify 推出價格較低的訂閱方案是否有意義，該方案提供比目前廣告支援方案更多的功能，但仍包含一定程度的廣告。那裡有哪些需要注意的地方？

That's a great question, Maria. I wish it was that easy that we could sort of look at under other industries and how they've introduced lower-priced subscription plans and including ads in there, but it's more complicated than that. The industries are sort of different, and I'm alluding to, obviously, SVOD versus what we have, which is primarily music.

瑪麗亞，這個問題問得真好。我希望事情能這麼簡單，我們可以看看其他行業是如何推出低價訂閱計劃並在其中包含廣告的，但事實比這更複雜。這兩個行業有所不同，我指的是 SVOD，而我們現有的主要是音樂。

And so when we look at this internally with the teams, we have what we call a value map that combines the dimensions of willingness to pay and then much reach you can get for different features and different product SKUs and how we sort of package these things.

因此，當我們與團隊內部一起研究這個問題時，我們會得到所謂的價值圖，它結合了支付意願的維度，以及不同功能和不同產品 SKU 所能達到的覆蓋範圍，以及我們如何包裝這些東西。

And so when you look at the more sort of basic functionality that's already out there in premium, this is what people expect today. So introducing something at a lower price and sort of a lesser SKU doesn't really drive much incrementality to our overall model. But never say never. I think there may be a time when this makes sense. And also, you need to sort of take into account that now that we're super scaled, there's a geographical sort of dimension to this as well.

因此，當您查看高級版中已經提供的更多基本功能時，這就是人們今天所期望的。因此，以較低的價格和較少的 SKU 推出產品實際上不會為我們的整體模型帶來太大的增量。但永遠不要說永遠。我認為，也許有一天，這是有意義的。此外，您還需要考慮到，既然我們現在已經規模龐大，那麼其中也存在地理維度。

All right. And our last question today is going to come from Eric Sheridan on the growth strategy. How are you thinking about striking a balance between forward growth investments in the business when measured against continuing to deliver increased operating margins and higher rates of conversion of operating profit from gross profit dollars?

好的。今天的最後一個問題來自 Eric Sheridan 關於成長策略的問題。在衡量持續提高營業利潤率和提高毛利到營業利潤的轉換率之間，您如何考慮取得平衡？

Yeah. Maybe I'll start here and then if Christian or anyone else wants to add, then please do that. So maybe sort of to go back to the answer I said before. Fundamentally, we believe this business to be much bigger than most other people believe it to be. And we still believe that there's plenty of growth left to be. So that is sort of number one, two, and three on our agenda is to prioritize growth initiatives.

是的。也許我會從這裡開始，然後如果克里斯蒂安或其他人想添加，那麼請這樣做。所以也許可以回到我之前說的答案。從根本上來說，我們相信這項業務比大多數人認為的要大得多。我們仍然相信，還有很大的成長空間。因此，我們議程上的首要、第二和第三項就是優先考慮成長計畫。

Now with that said, as you guys know, one of our focuses was also not just having a great product, but also having a great business. So we added to that also to prioritize showing that we have a great business, which is something that we have been delivering on for quite some time. And so as the balance goes forward, it's really kind of a measurement between these two things.

話雖如此，正如你們所知，我們的重點之一不僅是擁有優秀的產品，而且是擁有優秀的業務。因此，我們也要優先展示我們擁有出色的業務，這也是我們長期以來一直在努力實現的目標。因此，隨著平衡的推進，它實際上就是這兩者之間的一種衡量標準。

And so I'll give you one example of a metric that we use quite a lot internally. So one of the obsessions we have internally is we look at lifetime values, it's one of the big things that's driving not just the subscription business that we're doing, but even how we're thinking about product features and optimizing around product features as well.

因此，我將向您舉一個我們內部經常使用的指標的例子。因此，我們內部的一個執念就是專注於終身價值，這不僅是推動我們開展訂閱業務的重要因素之一，也是我們如何思考產品功能以及如何圍繞產品功能進行優化的重要因素之一。

So the natural way to think about this and to kind of down into one metric that could be helpful is the SAC to LTV. How much does it cost us to grow? And how much lifetime value does that the customer give? And so you would naturally -- any investor would naturally think that -- if you have a great delta between the SAC to LTV, meaning your SAC is much lower than your LTV, you should just invest -- and you shouldn't too much focus on what the gross profit for that quarter, I will say.

因此，思考這個問題並將其歸結為一個可能有用的指標的自然方式是 SAC 與 LTV 的比例。我們的成長需要花費多少成本？那麼客戶給予的終身價值是多少呢？因此，任何投資者都會自然而然地認為，如果 SAC 和 LTV 之間存在很大差異，即 SAC 遠低於 LTV，那麼您應該進行投資，而不應過多關注該季度的毛利。

And I want to be very clear with that, when we see super healthy SAC to LTV numbers, we will aggressively invest -- that's what I also talked about when I said that the business is in linear. If we see great opportunities, we will certainly go for great opportunities.

我想非常清楚地說明這一點，當我們看到超級健康的 SAC 與 LTV 數字時，我們將積極投資——這也是我在說業務呈線性時談到的。如果我們看到絕佳的機會，我們一定會去抓住絕佳的機會。

But what's really changed for us over the past few years is that -- we operate now way more than before, unless it's hell, yes, it's no. And so the bar that we keep for thinking about new initiatives is much higher than before. So how will this play out? I think in the short term, the way it's going to play out is kind of more of what we're already seeing. We're focused on the top line, but we're also focused on the bottom line.

但過去幾年我們真正發生的變化是——我們現在的運作比以前更頻繁，除非是地獄，是的，那就不是。因此，我們思考新措施的標準比以前高得多。那麼事情將會如何發展呢？我認為，從短期來看，事情的發展方式與我們已經看到的情況更加相似。我們關注的是營收，但我們也關注的是利潤。

Where we sit right now, I think we have great ways to improve both in the short term. But I am trying to signal to all of you as well that there may be times in the future where we see such an amazing way where, for instance, the SAC LTV diverges. And I do want us to have the flexibility then to really go after it because we think that over time, that will drive a much better business.

就我們目前的狀況而言，我認為我們有很好的方法在短期內改善這兩項狀況。但我也想向大家表明，未來我們可能會看到如此令人驚奇的情況，例如 SAC LTV 出現分歧。我確實希望我們能夠擁有足夠的靈活性去真正實現這一目標，因為我們認為隨著時間的推移，這將推動業務的更好發展。

And as I think about the investments we've been doing, they were really painful, honestly, a few years back. And I know a lot of you guys were questioning whether it was the right strategies. But I can tell you, we wouldn't be where we are right now if we didn't make those investments back then.

當我回想起我們所做的投資時，說實話，幾年前它們真的很痛苦。我知道很多人都在質疑這是否是正確的策略。但我可以告訴你，如果我們當時沒有進行那些投資，我們就不會達到現在的成就。

And what I mean by that is the growth rate that you saw last year, the gross margin improvement, all of these things are the sum of all the problems we solve to go back to my co-founders comments and we're obsessively going to do that.

我的意思是，您去年看到的成長率、毛利率的提高，所有這些都是我們解決的所有問題的總和，回到我的聯合創始人的評論，我們會執著地去做這件事。

And if we can time trade, making something that's right for the long term by sacrificing a little bit on the short term, we will do that. We will try to the best of our ability to communicate to you guys when we do it and why we think this investment makes sense.

如果我們能夠進行時間交易，透過犧牲一些短期利益來做出對長期有利的事情，我們就會這樣做。我們將盡最大努力向你們解釋我們何時進行這項投資以及為什麼我們認為這項投資是合理的。

But we are focused on the long term because we believe that this business has plenty of legs left and plenty of growth left and that this is something that a lot of people in the world cares about, and we believe we're just early on in that journey. So that's how we should think about how we think about the business and going forward.

但我們著眼於長遠發展，因為我們相信這項業務還有很大的發展空間和成長空間，而且這是世界上很多人都關心的事情，我們相信我們才剛開始這段旅程。這就是我們應該如何思考業務和未來發展的方式。

All right. Thanks, Daniel. That's going to conclude our Q&A session. Thanks, everybody for submitting the questions. And now I'd like to turn the floor back over to Daniel for some closing remarks.

好的。謝謝，丹尼爾。我們的問答環節到此結束。謝謝大家提交問題。現在我想把發言權交還給丹尼爾，請他做最後發言。

Yeah. Thanks, Brian. Well, I think I pretty much did much of my closing remarks. We feel really good about the business we're in -- the growth we're having long-term. Our fundamentals are strong. I think our mission is resonating. Consumers love the product. And we're really focused on building for the long term.

是的。謝謝，布萊恩。好吧，我想我的結束語已經講完了。我們對我們所從事的業務以及我們所取得的長期成長感到非常滿意。我們的基礎很牢固。我認為我們的使命引起了共鳴。消費者喜愛該產品。我們真正注重的是長期建設。

So with that, I just wanted to say again, thank you, everyone, for joining. Look forward to catching up soon again.

因此，我只想再次說，感謝大家的加入。期待很快再次相見。

Okay. And that concludes today's call. A replay will be available on our website and also on the Spotify app under Spotify earnings call replays. Thanks, everyone, for joining.

好的。今天的電話會議到此結束。重播將在我們的網站和 Spotify 應用程式的 Spotify 收益電話重播下提供。謝謝大家的參與。

This concludes Spotify's first quarter 2025 earnings call and webcast. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

Spotify 2025 年第一季財報電話會議和網路廣播到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。