西蒙地產 (SPG) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings. Welcome to Simon Property Group third-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this conference is being recorded.

問候。歡迎參加西蒙地產集團2025年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）請注意，本次會議正在錄音。

I will now turn the conference over to Tom Ward, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations. Thank you, sir. You may begin.

現在我將把會議交給投資者關係高級副總裁湯姆沃德。謝謝您，先生。你可以開始了。

Thank you, Sherry, and thank you all for joining us this evening. Presenting on today's call are David Simon, Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President; Eli Simon, Chief Operating Officer; and Brian McDade, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝你，雪莉，也謝謝各位今晚蒞臨。出席今天電話會議的有：董事長、執行長兼總裁大衛·西蒙；營運長伊萊·西蒙；以及財務長布萊恩·麥克達德。

A quick reminder that statements made during this call may be deemed forward-looking statements within the meaning of the safe harbor of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, and actual results may differ materially due to a variety of risks, uncertainties, and other factors. We refer you to today's press release and our SEC filings for a detailed discussion of the risk factors relating to those forward-looking statements.

提醒各位，本次電話會議中發表的聲明可能被視為 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》安全港條款意義上的前瞻性聲明，實際結果可能因各種風險、不確定性和其他因素而與預期存在重大差異。有關這些前瞻性聲明的風險因素的詳細討論，請參閱我們今天的新聞稿和我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。

Please note that this call includes information that may be accurate only as of today's date. Reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures are included within the press release and the supplemental information in today's Form 8-K filing. Both the press release and the supplemental information are available on our IR website at investors.simon.com. Our conference call this evening will be limited to one hour. For those who would like to participate in the question-and-answer session, we ask that you please respect our request to limit yourself to one question.

請注意，本次通話中包含的資訊可能僅截至今日有效。新聞稿和今天提交的 8-K 表格文件中的補充資訊中包含了非 GAAP 財務指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的調整表。新聞稿和補充資訊均可在我們的投資者關係網站 investors.simon.com 上查閱。今晚的電話會議時長將限制在一個小時以內。想要參加問答環節的各位，請尊重我們的要求，每人限提一個問題。

I'm pleased to introduce David Simon.

我很高興向大家介紹大衛·西蒙。

Good evening. I'm obviously pleased with our financial and operational performance for the third quarter. Our results were driven by solid fundamentals. Higher occupancy, accelerating shopper traffic, strong retail sales and a positive supply and demand dynamics, all contributing to strong cash flow growth.

晚安.我顯然對我們第三季的財務和營運業績感到滿意。我們的業績得益於穩健的基本面。入住率上升、客流量增加、零售額強勁成長以及積極的供需動態，所有這些都促成了強勁的現金流成長。

We are pleased to have acquired the remaining interest in Taubman Realty Group that we didn't own and are excited about the opportunities to enhance the operational efficiency and increase the NOI from the assets and deliver long-term returns to our shareholders.

我們很高興收購了我們之前未持有的 Taubman Realty Group 的剩餘股份，並對有機會提高營運效率、增加淨資產營業收入以及為股東帶來長期回報感到興奮。

I want to thank Bobby and Billy Taubman and the entire TRG team for our successful partnership over the last five years. I'm now going to turn it over to Eli, who will discuss the terrific TRG transaction and update on our development activity, and Brian will cover our third quarter results and other various goodies. There you go, Eli.

我要感謝 Bobby 和 Billy Taubman 以及整個 TRG 團隊，感謝他們在過去五年與我們建立的成功合作關係。現在我將把發言權交給 Eli，他將討論精彩的 TRG 交易並介紹我們的開發活動，而 Brian 將介紹我們的第三季業績和其他各種好消息。好了，伊萊。

Thank you. As mentioned, we completed the acquisition of the remaining 12% interest in TRG that we did not previously own in exchange for 5.06 million limited partnership units. We are pleased with the outcome, having acquired these high-quality assets at an overall cap rate of over 7.25%, not taking into account any operational efficiencies and improvements.

謝謝。如前所述，我們完成了對 TRG 剩餘 12% 股份的收購，這部分股份我們之前並不持有，收購所得為 506 萬份有限合夥單位。我們對收購結果感到滿意，這些高品質資產的總資本化率超過 7.25%，還不包括任何營運效率和改進。

These iconic assets further enhance the quality of our overall portfolio, and we are now in a position to pursue new growth and value creation opportunities for this portfolio. The portfolio has strong operating metrics, including 94.2% occupancy, average base minimum rent of $72.36 per square foot and retailer sales of approximately $1,200 per square foot.

這些標誌性資產進一步提升了我們整體投資組合的質量，我們現在有能力為投資組合尋求新的成長和價值創造機會。該投資組合擁有強勁的營運指標，包括 94.2% 的入住率、每平方英尺平均最低租金 72.36 美元以及每平方英尺約 1200 美元的零售商銷售額。

This transaction will be accretive in 2026 as we assume management responsibilities and integrate the assets, with the full benefit realized in 2027, given all of the operational aspects of running on our platform, adding at least 50 basis points to the going-in overall yield.

這項交易將在 2026 年帶來收益成長，因為我們將承擔管理責任並整合資產，考慮到在我們平台上營運的所有營運方面，將在 2027 年實現全部收益，至少在初始整體收益率上增加 50 個基點。

TRG will be consolidated and the acquisition will be accounted for as a business combination. This will require remeasurement of our previously held equity interest to fair value, resulting in a really big noncash, non-FFO gain to be recognized in the fourth quarter of 2025.

TRG將併入合併報表，此次收購將作為一項企業合併進行會計處理。這將需要將我們先前持有的股權重新計量為公允價值，從而在 2025 年第四季確認一筆非常大的非現金、非 FFO 收益。

Now turning to development. In the third quarter, we began construction on several new projects, including a second phase of residential at Northgate Station, an expansion of the Westin Austin Hotel at The Domain, retail and experiential additions at Brea Mall, King of Prussia, and The Shops at Mission Viejo.

現在轉向開發。第三季度，我們啟動了幾個新項目，包括 Northgate Station 的住宅二期工程、The Domain 的 Westin Austin Hotel 的擴建工程、Brea Mall、King of Prussia 和 The Shops at Mission Viejo 的零售和體驗式擴建工程。

At quarter end, our share of the net cost of development projects across all platforms was $1.25 billion with a blended yield of 9%. Approximately 45% of net costs are for mixed-use projects. In addition, our new development and redevelopment pipeline continues to grow with exciting new opportunities ahead, including a major full-price retail and mixed-use project in Nashville, where we will be unveiling our vision later this week.

截至季末，我們在所有平台開發項目的淨成本中所佔份額為 12.5 億美元，綜合收益率為 9%。淨成本中約有 45% 用於混合用途項目。此外，我們的新開發和重建項目儲備持續成長，未來將迎來令人興奮的新機遇，其中包括納許維爾的一個大型全價零售和混合用途項目，我們將在本週晚些時候公佈我們的願景。

I will now turn it over to Brian, who will walk through our third quarter results.

現在我將把發言權交給布萊恩，他將為大家介紹我們第三季的業績。

Thank you, Eli. Real estate FFO was $3.22 per share in the third quarter compared to $3.05 in the prior year, 5.6% growth. Domestic and international operations had a very good quarter and contributed $0.26 of growth, driven by an 8% increase in lease income. As anticipated, lower interest income and higher interest expense combined were a $0.09 drag year over year.

謝謝你，伊萊。第三季房地產FFO為每股3.22美元，去年同期為3.05美元，成長5.6%。國內和國際業務本季表現非常出色，貢獻了 0.26 美元的成長，這主要得益於租賃收入成長了 8%。正如預期的那樣，利息收入下降和利息支出上升合計導致年減 0.09 美元。

Domestic NOI increased 5.1% year over year for the quarter and 4.2% for the first nine months of the year. Portfolio NOI, which includes our international properties at constant currency, grew 5.2% for the quarter and 4.5% for the first nine months. Retailer demand remains strong as we signed over 1,000 leases totaling approximately 4 million square feet during the quarter. Approximately 30% of our leasing activity represents new deals, reflecting continued strong demand across the portfolio.

本季國內淨營業收入年增 5.1%，今年前九個月年增 4.2%。投資組合淨營業收入（包括我們以固定匯率計算的國際物業）本季成長 5.2%，前九個月成長 4.5%。零售商的需求依然強勁，本季我們簽署了超過 1000 份租賃協議，總面積約 400 萬平方英尺。我們租賃業務中約 30% 為新交易，反映出整個投資組合持續強勁的需求。

The Malls and Premium Outlets ended the third quarter at 96.4% occupancy, an increase of 40 basis points sequentially and 20 basis points year over year. The Mills achieved a 99.4% occupancy, an increase of 10 basis points sequentially and 80 basis points from the prior year. Average base minimum rents increased 2.5% year over year for the Malls and Premium Outlets, while the Mills saw a 1.8% increase.

購物中心和奧特萊斯第三季末入住率為 96.4%，較上季成長 40 個基點，較去年同期成長 20 個基點。米爾斯飯店入住率達 99.4%，比上年同期成長 10 個基點，比上年同期成長 80 個基點。購物中心和奧特萊斯的平均最低基本租金年增 2.5%，而米爾斯購物中心的最低基本租金則年增 1.8%。

Retailer sales per square foot for the Malls and the Premium Outlets were $742 for the quarter. Importantly, total sales volumes increased more than 4% in the third quarter. Shopper traffic and retailer sales accelerated sequentially, reflecting the impact of a successful back-to-school season.

本季購物中心和暢貨中心零售商每平方英尺的銷售額為 742 美元。值得注意的是，第三季總銷量成長超過 4%。購物客流量和零售商銷售環比加速成長，反映了返校季成功帶來的影響。

Occupancy cost at the end of the quarter was stable at 13%. Third quarter funds from operations were $1.23 billion or $3.25 per share compared to $1.07 billion or $2.84 per share last year. Some of the increase was due to improvement in OPI compared to last year. Please see the FFO reconciliation included in our supplemental today for details on the year over year changes in FFO per share.

本季末的佔用成本穩定在 13%。第三季營運資金為 12.3 億美元，即每股 3.25 美元，去年同期為 10.7 億美元，即每股 2.84 美元。部分成長是由於 OPI 較去年有所改善。有關每股 FFO 同比變化的詳細信息，請參閱我們今天提供的補充文件中的 FFO 對帳表。

Turning to the balance sheet and liquidity. During the quarter, we completed a dual tranche US senior note offering that totaled $1.5 billion at a combined average term of 7.8 years and a weighted average coupon rate of 4.8%.

接下來看一下資產負債表和流動性。本季度，我們完成了總額為 15 億美元的雙期美國優先票據發行，合併平均期限為 7.8 年，加權平均票面利率為 4.8%。

During the first nine months of the year, we completed 33 secured loan transactions totaling approximately $5.4 billion. The weighted average interest rate on these loans was 5.38%. We ended the quarter with approximately $9.5 billion of liquidity.

今年前九個月，我們完成了 33 筆擔保貸款交易，總額約 54 億美元。這些貸款的加權平均利率為 5.38%。本季末，我們的流動資金約為95億美元。

Turning to our dividend. Today, we announced $2.20 per share for the fourth quarter, a year over year increase of $0.10 or 4.8%. The dividend is payable on December 31.

接下來談談我們的股利。今天，我們宣布第四季度每股收益為 2.20 美元，比上年同期增長 0.10 美元，增幅為 4.8%。股息將於12月31日支付。

Now turning to guidance. We are increasing our full year 2025 real estate FFO guidance range to $12.60 to $12.70 per share. This compares to $12.24 last year in our prior guidance range of $12.45 to $12.65 per share. The updated range reflects a $0.15 increase at the low end and a $0.10 increase at the midpoint.

現在進入指導環節。我們將 2025 年全年房地產 FFO 預期範圍上調至每股 12.60 至 12.70 美元。相比之下，去年每股收益為 12.24 美元，而我們之前的預期範圍為每股 12.45 美元至 12.65 美元。更新後的價格區間低端上漲了 0.15 美元，中點上漲了 0.10 美元。

Thank you. We are now available for questions.

謝謝。現在我們可以回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Michael Goldsmith, UBS.

（操作說明）麥可‧戈德史密斯，瑞銀集團。

In the prepared remarks, you mentioned the opportunity for operational efficiencies and improvement for the Taubman assets twice and that these should help improve the yield by 50 basis points. So can you share some of the specifics of the opportunity from bringing these assets fully onto your platform?

在準備好的演講稿中，您兩次提到陶布曼資產的營運效率和改進機會，並表示這些改進應該有助於將收益率提高 50 個基點。那麼，您能否具體分享一下將這些資產完全整合到您的平台上所帶來的機會？

(technical difficulty) Hello.

（技術故障）您好。

We are able to hear you.

我們能聽到你的聲音。

Okay. We got disconnected. So can you repeat the question? We didn't get it all.

好的。我們斷線了。那麼，你能再說一次這個問題嗎？我們沒能全部得到。

Yeah, absolutely. In the prepared remarks, you mentioned the opportunity for operational efficiencies and improvements for the Taubman assets twice and that these should help improve the yield by 50 basis points. So can you share some of the specifics of the opportunity from bringing these assets onto your platform?

是的，絕對的。在準備好的演講稿中，您兩次提到陶布曼資產的營運效率和改進機會，並表示這些改進應該有助於將收益率提高 50 個基點。那麼，您能否具體分享將這些資產引入您的平台能帶來哪些機會？

Yes. I mean when we bought the original 80% of Taubman, the only real operational efficiencies we got was eliminating public company costs. Obviously, they had a full operational team running those assets, and we'll be able to add them to our platform at very little cost.

是的。我的意思是，當我們收購陶布曼公司最初的 80% 股份時，我們獲得的唯一真正的營運效率提升就是消除了上市公司的成本。顯然，他們有一個完整的營運團隊來管理這些資產，我們可以以非常低的成本將它們添加到我們的平台中。

And then from an operational enhancement point of view, we bring our expertise in development, redevelopment, leasing, marketing, brand ventures, and we put all that together, and that's what we do for living. So we've helped out, but not to the point of how we would if we actually ran the properties day to day. So now we put them on our -- we bolt them on to our platform, that's easy. And then we run the properties day to day, and we bring all that we can bear to a portfolio like that. And that's where we see a tremendous amount of upside.

從營運提升的角度來看，我們運用我們在開發、重建、租賃、行銷、品牌投資方面的專業知識，並將所有這些結合起來，這就是我們賴以生存的事業。所以我們已經提供了一些幫助，但遠不及我們實際負責日常營運時所做的那樣。所以現在我們把它們裝到我們的平台上——我們用螺栓把它們固定到我們的平台上，這很容易。然後我們負責這些物業的日常運營，並將我們所能投入的一切精力都投入到這樣的投資組合中。而這正是我們看到巨大上漲空間的地方。

If you look at the occupancy, it's lower than where we're at, and we think we can bring it up to our level. And then we've got all our asset management techniques, property management capabilities that are going to just grind higher cash flow. That's what we do for a living. That's why we've been the acquirer. That's why we've been successful time and again.

從入住率來看，它低於我們目前的水平，我們認為我們可以將其提升到我們的水平。此外，我們還有各種資產管理技術和物業管理能力，這些都將帶來更高的現金流。這就是我們的工作。這就是我們成為收購方的原因。這就是我們屢戰屢勝的原因。

And if you look back at this portfolio and you look at the entire transaction, we're going to be at an essentially an 8% cap rate when we add these a little over 8% cap rate when we add the assets to our platform. And that -- and you look at the quality of the assets, that makes for a terrific deal, which you guys need to understand. So it's at a much higher cap rate than strip centers are trading, much better growth rate than strip centers are trading that I've seen. And these assets have been around 70 years. That's the other thing to step back.

回顧這個投資組合，看看整個交易，當我們把這些資產加入我們的平台時，我們的資本化率基本上會達到 8%，略高於 8%。而且——再加上這些資產的質量，這絕對是一筆非常划算的交易，你們都應該明白這一點。所以它的資本化率比商業街的同類物業高得多，成長率也比我見過的商業街同類物業好得多。這些資產已經存在了70年。這是另一件需要退後的事情。

So take data centers. Data centers trade at a 4.5% cap rate. And we don't know -- nobody knows what they're going to look like in five years. What we do know is that good malls have been around 70 years, 70 years, not 7 years, not 17 years, but 7-0 years. So we made a hell of a trade, and that's certainly one of the reasons why I think the Taubmans wanted to convert this last 12% into our units, which is convertible on a one-to-one basis to our stock, because they've seen our ability to execute and perform at levels that no one else has in our peer group.

以資料中心為例。資料中心的交易資本化率為 4.5%。我們不知道——沒有人知道五年後他們會變成什麼樣子。我們知道的是，好的購物中心已經存在了70年，70年，不是7年，也不是17年，而是70年。所以我們做了一筆非常棒的交易，這當然也是我認為陶布曼家族想要將最後 12% 的股份轉換成我們的股份的原因之一，這些股份可以按 1:1 的比例轉換成我們的股票，因為他們看到了我們在同行中無人能及的執行力和業績水平。

Alexander Goldfarb, Piper Sandler.

Alexander Goldfarb，Piper Sandler。

Eli, welcome to the public earnings call. You now get all the enjoyment that David has had over the years. So David, just going back to the cap rate, and if you'll indulge me a little bit, if we take the implied cap rate of the shares issued on Friday, it's sort of a little over 6%. But you spoke about an 8%, which sounds like the existing assets were producing a lot more the overall versus the final buyout trade.

Eli，歡迎參加本次財報電話會議。現在，你也能享受大衛多年來所享受的一切樂趣了。所以，David，我們再回到資本化率的問題上來，如果你允許我稍微解釋一下，如果我們以周五發行的股票的隱含資本化率為基準，它大約略高於 6%。但你提到了 8%，這聽起來像是現有資產產生的總收益比最終收購交易的收益高得多。

But then you spoke about the initial 50 bps increase once it's on Simon's platform, but presumably, there's a lot more growth over the next five or so years that presumably that 8% goes higher. So one, can you help us understand sort of the pricing of the final 12% and how that relates to the 7.25% that you initially spoke about? And then over the next few years, presumably, this cap rate is going to be much higher than an 8%.

但你提到，一旦產品上線西蒙平台，最初的漲幅會達到 50 個基點，但可以推測，在接下來的五年左右時間裡，增長幅度會更大，因此 8% 的漲幅可能會更高。首先，您能否幫我們了解最後 12% 的定價，以及它與您最初提到的 7.25% 有什麼關係？然後，在接下來的幾年裡，預計這個資本化率將遠高於 8%。

Yeah. So let me just unpack it a little bit. I'll be a little more clear. So if you look at -- we had four transactions within the Taubman Group. We had the initial 80% we had the 2 4% and then 12%.

是的。讓我稍微解釋一下。我再說得更清楚一些。所以如果你看一下——我們在陶布曼集團內部進行了四筆交易。我們最初有 80%，然後是 24%，最後是 12%。

If you look at that on today's numbers, today's numbers that's basically a little over a 7.25% cap rate. If you add what we think will bring in operational synergies, efficiencies/enhancements, that's where we get to north of 8%. And then obviously, Alex, you're right, then you have all the intrinsic growth of the portfolio, which we're not -- that will just be year-after-year growth because I think these assets, by and large, have a higher skew of quality than just the Simon-only portfolio.

如果以今天的數字來看，今天的數字基本上略高於 7.25% 的資本化率。如果再加上我們認為能夠帶來營運綜效、效率提升/改善的因素，那麼我們的成長率就能超過 8%。然後很明顯，Alex，你說得對，然後你會發現投資組合的所有內在增長，而我們並沒有——那隻是逐年增長，因為我認為這些資產總體上比只有Simon的投資組合具有更高的質量偏差。

So they skew a little higher growth than we do -- we did historically. So we would expect our comp NOI growth to accelerate because of adding that in. So that -- hopefully, that impacts -- if you really are focused on the 12%, not including the operational enhancements, we're in the 6.25% to 6.5% cap rate, if you just want to focus on that 12%. Do you want me to explain it?

所以他們的成長率比我們略高——從歷史上看，我們確實如此。因此，我們預期由於納入了這部分數據，我們的綜合淨營業收入成長將會加速。所以——希望這能產生影響——如果你真的只關注那 12% 的收益，不包括營運改進，那麼我們的資本化率在 6.25% 到 6.5% 之間，如果你只想關注那 12% 的收益的話。你想讓我解釋一下嗎？

Yes, that -- it's what we thought initially, but obviously, all the pieces adding up to get us how you think about that.

是的，就是這樣——我們最初也是這麼想的，但顯然，所有因素加在一起才讓我們得出和你一樣的結論。

I told you a lot more -- only a few, I told you a lot more information than I normally would, okay?

我告訴你的遠不止這些——只是少數，我告訴你的信息比我通常告訴你的要多得多，好嗎？

I'm sure Floris will ask a lot more details than I have. So I'll stand back. So thank you, David.

我相信佛洛里斯會問到比我更多的細節。所以我選擇退後一步。所以，謝謝你，大衛。

Caitlin Burrows, Goldman Sachs.

Caitlin Burrows，高盛集團。

Congrats on the quarter and recent announcements. And yes, welcome Eli, to the earnings call. Maybe on the sales results, they increased in the quarter, which was great to see. Could you give any detail on how widespread that was? Did a couple of tenants drive numbers one way or the other? I know you have initiatives to upgrade the tenant base, maybe shrink where it makes sense. So just whether we're starting to see some impact from those initiatives?

恭喜本季業績和近期發布的公告。是的，歡迎 Eli 參加財報電話會議。或許從銷售業績來看，本季銷售額有所成長，令人欣喜。能詳細說明一下這種情況有多普遍嗎？幾個租戶是否對數據產生了影響？我知道你們有提升租戶基礎的計劃，也可能在適當的情況下縮減租戶規模。那麼，我們是否已經開始看到這些措施產生一些影響了呢？

Caitlin, it's Brian. Quite honestly, throughout the quarter, you saw a widespread increase across all three platforms. And the tenant base certainly was productive in the quarter. You saw certain categories outperform. You saw luxury come back a bit. Certainly, athleisure outperform, even the apparel category.

凱特琳，我是布萊恩。坦白說，整個季度以來，所有三個平台都出現了普遍增長。本季租戶表現確實不錯。你看到某些類別表現優異。你會看到奢侈品產業有所復甦。當然，運動休閒服飾的表現優於其他服飾類別。

So certainly, the back-to-school season was a robust one for our business and our portfolio. Even you saw some positive inflection in some of the tourist-oriented centers. So we are starting to see it kind of widespread across the totality of the portfolio, sequential improvement, both in traffic and in sales.

因此，毫無疑問，返校季對我們的業務和產品組合來說都是一個強勁的銷售旺季。甚至在一些旅遊中心也看到了一些正面的轉變。因此，我們開始看到這種情況在整個產品組合中普遍存在，流量和銷售都出現了連續的改善。

Yeah, Caitlin, I would only add that I think like I said last quarter, I believe we're still not from a sales point of view, hitting on all cylinders.

是的，凱特琳，我只想補充一點，就像我上個季度說的那樣，我認為從銷售的角度來看，我們還沒有完全發揮出應有的水準。

What I did -- what we did see is that the kind of the higher-end consumer, obviously, I don't have to -- you have as good data as we do at Goldman. But clearly, we're in this K-shaped kind of situation. So we did skew better results in the higher income-oriented centers. The value-oriented centers were more flat to kind of inching along. So you didn't see the entire portfolio.

我所做的——我們看到的是，對於高端消費者而言，顯然，我不需要——你們擁有和我們高盛一樣好的數據。但很明顯，我們正處於這種 K 形的局面中。因此，我們在高收入中心地區確實取得了更好的結果。以價值為導向的中心發展較為平穩，甚至有些緩慢。所以你並沒有看到全部的投資組合。

Brian is right. The quarter was okay, at least stabilized. So it's not hitting on all cylinders, but it's okay. Florida remains to be very strong. The one area that we're seeing, and I think everybody is seeing is that your -- Las Vegas from a tourist market is underperforming. You see it from the casinos. Obviously, we have a lot of properties, great properties, but they're not comping the sales growth that we would expect.

布萊恩說得對。本季還算可以，至少趨於穩定。所以它還沒有完全發揮出全部潛力，但沒關係。佛羅裡達州依然非常強勁。我們看到的一個方面，我想大家都看到了，那就是拉斯維加斯的旅遊市場表現不佳。在賭場就能看到。顯然，我們有很多房產，都是優質房產，但它們的銷售成長並沒有達到我們預期的水平。

And then Brian is right, we did see stabilization in the luxury, which is good. But -- and again, the higher income properties are doing better. The one caveat is, as you know, our Vegas properties skewed toward that, and they were not -- their comp sales were intact, I think a little down. I don't have the number off the top of my head.

布萊恩說得對，我們確實看到奢侈品市場趨於穩定，這是好事。但是——而且再次強調——高收入房產的表現更好。需要注意的是，正如您所知，我們在拉斯維加斯的房產銷售情況比較特殊，但實際情況並非如此——它們的同店銷售額保持不變，我認為只是略有下降。我一時想不起來具體數字了。

So we're seeing underperformance. Look, we don't worry about that because Vegas assets are great and Vegas does go up and down. And you've clearly had Canadians that don't go to Las Vegas and other people that are not going at the frequency that's happening, but no concern there. But right now, it's kind of in the trough.

所以我們看到的是業績不佳。你看，我們不擔心，因為拉斯維加斯的資產很好，而拉斯維加斯的市場總是有漲有跌。顯然，有些加拿大人不去拉斯維加斯，有些人去拉斯維加斯的頻率也不高，但這並沒有引起人們的擔憂。但現在，它正處於低谷期。

Samir Khanal, Bank of America.

薩米爾·卡納爾，美國銀行。

Brian or David, you've generated very strong NOI growth year to date, 5% for the quarter. I guess, given the solid leasing environment you're seeing, just trying to see if you can keep up this sort of same-store momentum in '26 or even do better, assuming a sort of a similar retailer sales environment? Curious on your thoughts.

Brian 或 David，你們今年迄今為止的 NOI 成長非常強勁，本季成長了 5%。我想，鑑於目前穩健的租賃環境，你們只是想看看能否在 2026 年保持這種同店銷售勢頭，甚至做得更好，假設零售商的銷售環境與之前類似？很想聽聽你的想法。

Well, the team is doing our -- I think we invite Alex. So we invite you and then disinvite you, but the team is going through the property-by-property root canal, okay? So I'm glad to report no cavities, no need for root canal.

嗯，團隊正在做我們的事——我想我們會邀請 Alex。所以我們先邀請你，然後又取消邀請，但團隊正在逐一房產進行根管治療，懂嗎？所以我很高興地報告，我沒有蛀牙，也不需要做根管治療。

We feel really what I'm being told and what I'm seeing from the numbers are really positive. The team is juiced, energized, so we feel -- I'm not going to give you a number, but we feel really good about '26 in terms of our ability to produce comp NOI growth.

我所了解到的情況以及我從數據中看到的情況都非常積極。團隊士氣高昂，充滿活力，所以我們感覺──我不會給你一個具體的數字，但我們對2026年實現同店淨營業收入成長的能力感到非常樂觀。

As you know, we'll do that in February with our earnings guidance. But the team is feeling good that we'll have another -- obviously, there's external factors that we don't -- even we don't control, I'm kidding. But we're feeling really generally positive about what we're seeing, right? Brian?

如您所知，我們將在二月份發布盈利預期時做到這一點。但球隊感覺不錯，我們還會再贏一次——顯然，還有一些我們無法控制的外部因素——我開玩笑的。但總的來說，我們對目前的情況感到非常樂觀，對吧？布萊恩？

Yeah. No, that's the report back. We're in the middle of grinding out. We'll get back to you in February, but I think there's an optimism. Eli, you've been going through all these.

是的。不，那是回饋報告。我們正在全力以赴。我們會在二月回覆您，但我認為前景樂觀。伊萊，你經歷了這一切。

Yeah. And it's across the portfolio, not just the powerhouse centers, but really across the portfolio, a lot of exciting new things in store for next year.

是的。而且這不僅限於那些實力雄厚的中心，而是遍及整個投資組合，明年將有許多令人興奮的新事物即將面世。

Greg McGinniss, Scotiabank.

格雷格·麥金尼斯，加拿大豐業銀行。

So from our perspective, and despite our expectations, tariffs have had seemingly little impact on shopper or retailer behavior to date. And David, I know you previously mentioned that maybe the holiday season is when we start to see some impact to retailer financials, but we were hoping for an update on what you're seeing in your retailer discussions and regarding your expectations on any impact to leasing and/or tenant behavior?

因此，從我們的角度來看，儘管我們預期，但迄今為止，關稅似乎對購物者或零售商的行為影響甚微。大衛，我知道你之前提到過，或許假期季節會開始對零售商的財務狀況產生一些影響，但我們希望你能更新一下你在與零售商的討論中看到的情況，以及你對租賃和/或租戶行為可能受到的影響的預期？

From the tariffs, right? So look, I think the news that President Trump and President Xi had on the Chinese discussion is positive for our retailers, even though a number of them have moved some of their production out of China, but that's a positive. I do -- I continue to believe that tariffs will have an impact. We have not yet seen all of it. And I think some of that will -- as I said last time, I mean, it's a pretty consistent story.

是從關稅裡來的，對吧？所以你看，我認為川普總統和習近平主席就中國問題進行的會談對我們的零售商來說是積極的，儘管他們中的許多人已經將部分生產轉移到了中國以外，但這仍然是一個積極的信號。我確實這麼認為——我仍然相信關稅會產生影響。我們還沒有看到全部內容。而且我認為其中一些會——就像我上次說的那樣，我的意思是，這是一個相當連貫的故事。

Some of that will be passed on to the supplier. Some of that will be eaten by the retailer and some of that will be passed on to the consumer. So there's just - in many cases, the inability for retailers to eat that entire tariff. So they're going to have to pass it on or renegotiate better vendor deals. And I still believe we still haven't seen the full impact of it.

其中一部分將轉給供應商。其中一部分成本將被零售商消化，部分成本將轉嫁給消費者。所以，在很多情況下，零售商根本無力負擔全部關稅。所以他們要嘛得把合約轉給別人，要嘛就得重新談判，爭取更好的供應商合約。我仍然認為我們還沒有看到它的全部影響。

So I think your question is appropriate. I think it's still -- now baseball goes to, what is it, 18 innings now, I mean 18 innings. So I'm not -- let's assume it goes to Stage 9. I think the tariff -- if I had to put an inning on it, I'd say five to six, just a gut feel, so it's not scientific. So we'll have to see.

所以我認為你的問題很恰當。我認為現在棒球比賽仍然是——現在棒球比賽是，嗯，18 局，我是說 18 局。所以我不是——假設它發展到第 9 階段。我認為關稅——如果非要我估計一下，我會說五到六，這只是我的直覺，並不科學。所以我們拭目以待。

And I do worry that it will put more pressure on the smaller retailers, not the mammoth retailers that we all think about, right? Because they have the ability to handle it and try and use this as an opportunity to squeeze and increase market share.

我確實擔心這會給小型零售商帶來更大的壓力，而不是我們通常認為的大型零售商，對吧？因為他們有能力應對這種情況，並試圖利用這個機會來擠壓和擴大市場份額。

So we're still in the middle of the game. It is not over. Hopefully, it is a 9-inning game. It doesn't go to 18. But I don't think the final chapter -- how about all these analogies. But I don't think the final chapter has been there. So we're still cautious on that.

所以我們還在比賽的中期。事情還沒結束。希望這是一場九局。它不到18歲。但我認為最後一章——所有這些類比怎麼樣？但我認為最終章還沒到來。所以我們對此仍然持謹慎態度。

Let me just end by saying from a supply and demand point of view, just from our leasing, we see absolutely unequivocally no change apart from the retailers that are looking to grow their footprint.

最後我想從供需角度，僅從我們的租賃情況來看，除了那些尋求擴大經營規模的零售商之外，我們絕對看不到任何變化。

Craig Mailman, Citi.

克雷格‧梅爾曼，花旗銀行。

Hey, guys. David, maybe going back to your comments earlier about the value mall, kind of the foot traffic going on there versus your higher-end mall. As you look at '26, I know you guys said you feel very good, but -- and the tenant demand.

嘿，夥計們。David，也許可以回到你之前關於平價購物中心的評論，那裡的人流與你的高檔購物中心相比有什麼不同。展望 2026 年，我知道你們都說感覺很好，但是——以及租戶的需求。

As you guys approach conversations with tenants who are looking at both high end and kind of the value segment from some of that crossover, do you feel like you guys are losing a little bit of momentum in the ability to push net effectives at the value side of the portfolio? Or the inflation over the last couple of years just pushed OCRs to a point where you still feel like you're able to get pretty good upside relative to maybe where you're pushing in the luxury or the higher-end malls?

當你們與那些既關注高端市場又關注性價比市場的租戶進行洽談時，你們是否覺得在提升投資組合中性價比部分的淨收益方面，你們的勢頭正在減弱？或者說，過去幾年的通貨膨脹只是把 OCR 推高到了一個水平，讓你感覺相對於在奢侈品或高端商場投入的成本，你仍然能夠獲得相當不錯的收益？

Yeah. Let me just say, traffic for the kind of the value-oriented centers is up. So it's not the traffic. It's just really the conversion. I think that consumer is being a little more cautious. But I think you pinpointed it. I mean we have low OCRs there. The demand -- again, the retail demand on that portfolio is still very positive. So no change of -- no different point of view.

是的。我只想說，那種注重性價比的購物中心客流量增加了。所以問題不在於交通。其實就是轉換的問題。我認為消費者現在更加謹慎了。但我認為你指出了問題的關鍵。我的意思是，我們那裡的OCR識別率很低。再次強調，該投資組合的零售需求仍然非常積極。所以，沒有改變──沒有不同的觀點。

But we do have to be sensitive because the lower-income consumer, which again, we don't skew to -- even in our outlet centers, they're skewed toward the higher-end retailers, around the higher-end consumers, I should say. So it's not where we skew. But again, demand is good, and it's not a -- there's really no change of mood or potential there, but it is -- they're not increasing at the rate that the full-price better higher-end centers are. That's it.

但我們必須保持敏感，因為低收入消費者，我們並沒有向他們傾斜——即使在我們的奧特萊斯中心，他們的顧客也傾向於高端零售商，也就是高端消費者。所以問題不在於我們的傾向。但話說回來，需求依然旺盛，而且——實際上，這種情緒或潛力並沒有什麼變化，只是——它們的成長速度沒有全價的高端中心那麼快。就是這樣。

So I think that the outlet consumer is being a little more cautious. But let's see what happens this Christmas. I mean you still got things going for the lower-end consumer, lower gas price, hopefully lower electricity prices for the time being until all these data centers get built, and that's another interesting thing we need to talk about as a country. But I think it's -- again, it's -- the sales are not hitting like Vegas, like a couple of the border, northern borders thing. We're just not hitting on all cylinders.

所以我認為，奧特萊斯消費者現在更加謹慎了。但讓我們看看今年聖誕節會發生什麼事。我的意思是，對於低端消費者來說，仍然有一些利好因素，例如天然氣價格下降，希望在所有這些資料中心建成之前，電價也能暫時下降，這是我們國家需要討論的另一個有趣的問題。但我認為——再說一次——銷售額沒有像拉斯維加斯那樣火爆，也沒有像邊境、北部邊境地區那樣火爆。我們還沒發揮出全部實力。

And the reason we say that is to show you that there's more juice in the orange, right? Is it orange or lemon? Orange. Lemon sounds good, right. So there's more juice there. It's just we're not getting all of it at this point.

我們這麼說是為了向你說明，橘子裡還有更多汁液，對吧？是橘子還是檸檬？橘子.檸檬聽起來不錯，對吧？所以那裡還有更多潛力。只是目前我們還沒有完全掌握這些資訊。

Michael Griffin, Evercore ISI.

Michael Griffin，Evercore ISI。

I wanted to ask on the new leasing in the quarter. Brian, I think you mentioned it was about 30% of the total leases executed. Is this you all proactively looking to get ahead of leases that might expire in a year or two and upgrade the credit quality? And can you also give us a sense if you're seeing more of those new-to-mall concepts coming in the portfolio? And lastly, anything you can comment on leasing spread for that would be helpful.

我想詢問一下本季的新租賃情況。布萊恩，我記得你提到過，這大約佔已簽訂租約總數的 30%。你們是否都在積極主動地尋找機會，提前處理那些可能在一兩年內到期的租賃合同，從而提升信用評分？您能否也透露一下，您是否看到更多此類對購物中心而言全新的概念被納入到您的產品組合中？最後，如果您能就租賃價差發表任何評論，那就太好了。

Well, I'll just let Brian answer most of it. But I'll say the new-to concept, I mean, Meta is opening a store. We're in discussions with them. Google is opening stores. We're in contact with them.

好吧，大部分的問題還是讓布萊恩來回答。但我要說的是，Meta 正在開設一家門市，這真是一個全新的概念。我們正在與他們進行磋商。谷歌正在開設實體店。我們正在與他們聯繫。

Netflix, Eli is going to be opening tomorrow at King of Prussia -- next week. So Netflix is -- I encourage everyone to go check it out. They're opening their flagship destination store at King of Prussia next week. So there's more and more year-end Labubu.

Netflix 宣布 Eli 將於明天（下週）在 King of Prussia 上映。所以，我鼓勵大家去看看Netflix。他們將於下週在普魯士國王鎮開設旗艦店。所以，年底的拉布布（Labubu）越來越多了。

Pop Mart, Edikted, Princess Polly, a bunch of tenants. And what they see is they can open a bunch of stores with us. And so we're having really great conversations in our new business leasing.

Pop Mart、Edikted、Princess Polly，還有一群房客。他們看到的是，他們可以和我們一起開很多家店。因此，我們在新的商業租賃方面進行了很多非常好的對話。

So -- and I'll let Brian get to the rest. But -- so the new idea, new experiential stuff, we're doing new Apple stores as well. They opened in Del Amo. That's a good example. We've been working that deal for five years or so. So I think it's very encouraging what we're seeing on the new storefront.

那麼——剩下的就交給布萊恩吧。但是——所以，新的理念，新的體驗，我們也在打造新的蘋果商店。他們在德爾阿莫開業了。這是一個很好的例子。我們為了達成這項交易已經努力了大約五年。所以我認為，我們在新店面上看到的景象非常令人鼓舞。

We're still doing a lot of new restaurants with high-end operators. So that's going very well. We opened Formula 1 at Forum Shops. One of their second or third operations, two-level flagship store, a bunch of people there for the opening. It's terrific, saw pictures.

我們仍在與高端經營者合作，開設許多新餐廳。一切進展順利。我們在 Forum Shops 開設了一級方程式賽車場。這是他們的第二或第三次擴張，兩層樓的旗艦店，開幕當天來了很多人。太棒了，我看了照片。

So just on the new concept, the new store front between the restaurants and the Metas of the world, the Netflix, the Googles that are all working on that. I think it's very, very positive, very positive. So lots happening on that front.

所以，就新概念而言，餐廳和像Meta這樣的世界級公司（Netflix、Google等）之間的新店面，它們都在致力於實現這一點。我認為這非常、非常積極，非常積極。這方面有很多事情正在發生。

And Michael, it's -- the 30% statistic is new leases. So it is not picking up old stuff. What you've got is just the unabated demand for us to continue to add interesting and new uses. We're also seeing big demand from the existing kind of retailer base, and we're slightly out ahead of '26s expirations. And so I think it's coming from a variety of places.

邁克爾，30% 這個統計數據指的是新租約。所以它不會拾取舊數據。你們看到的正是市場對我們不斷增加有趣新用途的持續需求。我們也看到現有零售商群體有很大的需求，而且我們的供貨量比 2026 年到期的產品略有提前。所以我認為它來自多個方面。

Certainly, on the last several calls, you've heard us talk about improving the merchandising mix. And that 30% statistic is really encapsulating our desire and ability to do that.

當然，在最近幾次通話中，您也聽到我們談到要改進商品組合。而這 30% 的統計數據真正體現了我們實現這一目標的願望和能力。

So -- and I'll give you a simple example. We have a great mall. I probably shouldn't -- I'm not going to name the tenant, but I'll give you some breadcrumbs. But it's a great mall in a great Southeastern city, a great Southeastern city, not Atlanta. That's a great Southeastern city, but another great Southeastern city, not Atlanta that we're -- and this goes to your point, are you -- even if you have a lease, are you satisfied? The answer is no.

那麼——我給你舉個簡單的例子。我們這裡有個很棒的購物中心。我可能不應該——我不會透露租戶的名字，但我可以提供一些線索。但它是位於美國東南部一座大城市的一家很棒的購物中心，不是亞特蘭大，而是東南部一座很棒的城市。那是一個很棒的東南部城市，但另一個很棒的東南部城市，不是亞特蘭大——這就引出了你的觀點，即使你有租約，你滿意嗎？答案是否定的。

So we're taking one tenant that has a lease. We're actually downsizing them, moving them to another space and putting a leading high-end retailer in there, and I'll leave it at that. I was going to give you a little bit more breadcrumbs, but I don't want people yelling at me. So -- which is a good example of even though we had leases on both spaces, we're taking one, downsizing one tenant moving, bringing in another one.

所以我們選擇了一個有租約的租戶。實際上，我們正​​在縮減它們的規模，將它們搬到另一個地方，並引入一家領先的高端零售商，我就說到這裡吧。我本來想再給你一些線索，但我不想被罵。所以——這是一個很好的例子，即使我們租了兩個地方，我們也只租了一個，因為一個租戶搬走了，我們縮小了規模，然後引入了另一個租戶。

And that's what our folks do. That's one of the great things that we see in the TRG portfolio. And we'll be a lot more aggressive in doing that because you're never -- we should never be satisfied that we've executed the mix at the rate that you've always got to change it.

這就是我們人民所做的。這是我們在TRG投資組合中看到的一大亮點。而且我們會更積極主動地去做這件事，因為我們永遠不應該滿足於我們已經以這樣的速度完成了混音，因為總是需要做出改變。

For instance, talk Forum Shops, I think it just recently opened. We had an H&M store there. We replaced it with Zara, beautiful store, big investment that they had, and that changes the whole kind of the center point, they're familiar with the asset, which is truly exciting. So absolutely, and that's one of the -- like I said, one of the interesting things that we see in the TRG portfolio and then in our assets across the spectrum, whether it's the outlet centers or the full-price malls.

例如，說到 Forum Shops，我覺得它應該是最近才開業的。那裡曾經有一家H&M門市。我們把它換成了 Zara，一家漂亮的商店，他們投入了巨資，這改變了整個中心點，他們對這個資產很熟悉，這真的很令人興奮。當然，正如我所說，這是我們在 TRG 投資組合以及我們所有資產（無論是暢貨中心還是全價購物中心）中看到的有趣現象之一。

Juan Sanabria, BMO Capital Markets.

Juan Sanabria，BMO 資本市場。

Just hoping maybe to talk a little bit about technology. A lot of things in society seem like they're in flux and retail is not excluded there to talk about ChatGPT agents or agentic agents that can do some of the shopping bypassing people.

只是想稍微聊聊科技方面的事情。社會上的許多事物似乎都在變化之中，零售業也不例外，例如 ChatGPT 代理或智慧代理，它們可以繞過真人完成一些購物。

Just curious on how you guys are trying to position for this and your thoughts on how this may evolve and if you see it as a risk or an opportunity or both?

我很好奇你們是如何為此做好準備的，以及你們認為這件事可能會如何發展，你們覺得這是風險、機會還是兩者兼有？

Well, you have to assume everything is a risk. So I do think bringing AI into the equation will have a pretty big impact on how e-commerce is done. But we offer something much broader than e-commerce.

嗯，你必須假設所有事情都有風險。所以我認為，將人工智慧引入電子商務領域，將會對電子商務的運作方式產生相當大的影響。但我們提供的服務遠不止電子商務。

If e-commerce was going to put us out of business for the last 20 years and here we are standing. Just to give you an example, I saw Palantir had EBITDA this quarter of like adjusted EBITDA, whatever that means, of $400 million and our EBITDA this quarter was $1.6 billion. So now Palantir's market cap is $500 billion, ours is $65 billion, if you include the units, right, Tom. So that's pretty good math, right?

如果說電子商務在過去 20 年裡一直試圖讓我們破產，那麼我們現在仍然屹立不倒。舉個例子，我看到 Palantir 本季的 EBITDA（調整後 EBITDA，不管這意味著什麼）為 4 億美元，而我們本季的 EBITDA 為 16 億美元。所以現在 Palantir 的市值是 5000 億美元，我們的市值是 650 億美元，如果算上單位數量的話，對吧，湯姆。所以這數學計算相當不錯，對吧？

So again, I do think the people that shop -- the e-commerce shoppers are definitely going to use AI to -- eventually to use AI to replace the way they shop online today. And the key for us is to create like we have for 70 years. Remember, we've been in this business 70 years, okay? Not 5, not 20. But in this -- we have survived.

所以，我再次認為，網購消費者最終肯定會使用人工智慧來取代他們現在的線上購物方式。對我們來說，關鍵在於像過去70年那樣繼續創作。記住，我們從事這個行業已經70年了，好嗎？不是5，也不是20。但這一次——我們活了下來。

This product has survived 70 years. And I will tell you, our half-life is greater than the newfangled data centers that are being built today because I think they'll figure out how to do them smaller and more efficient three to five years from now, okay? And I know nothing, but that's my gut feel. I know nothing, but that's my gut feel.

這款產品已經歷經70年風雨。而且我可以告訴你，我們的資料中心壽命比現在正在建造的新型資料中心要長，因為我認為在三到五年內，他們會找到辦法把資料中心做得更小、更有效率，好嗎？我什麼都不知道，但這只是我的直覺。我什麼都不知道，但這只是我的直覺。

So going back to your question, so it will have an impact on e-commerce. I think it's going to absolutely continue to make us great at what we do and that we're going to have to create real shopping -- holistic shopping environments.

回到你的問題，這將對電子商務產生影響。我認為這絕對會讓我們繼續在我們所做的事情上做得更好，而且我們將不得不創造真正的購物——整體的購物環境。

And another way to look at it is, look, so there's a lot of talk about going to -- and I was at the CEO Summit the other day, which was kind of interesting. But put that aside, there's a lot of talk that people are going to be working three days a week. So -- and the potential GDP impact of AI could be $15 trillion or trillions of dollars, right? So the way I look at it, I look at actual positive.

換個角度來看，你看，現在很多人都在談論參加——前幾天我參加了CEO峰會，那真是挺有趣的。但先不說這個，現在有很多傳言說人們每週只工作三天。所以——人工智慧對GDP的潛在影響可能是15兆美元，甚至數兆美元，對吧？所以，我的看法是，我只關注實際的正面方面。

So if you -- let's say we all work now, I'm going to still work five days, eight days a week, right? Lord, I'm going to make work at least seven, eight days a week. But let's just hypothetically take the point that it's only three-day a week work, okay, three days a week that you work. You're going to have a lot more free time. We've created this great wealth.

所以，假設我們現在都工作，我還是會每週工作五天、八天，對吧？主啊，我打算每週至少工作七、八天。但我們不妨假設一下，你每週只工作三天，好吧，你每週工作三天。你會擁有更多空閒時間。我們創造了這筆巨大的財富。

Our GDP goes from $18 trillion to $25 trillion to $30 trillion. That means money in people's pocket. I think we're going to go to the mall to shop. What else are they going to do, okay? So they can only yell at their kids that much when they play New Soccer. So they're going to go to the mall to shop, eat, spend their newfound wealth that's going to eat through this economy.

我們的GDP從18兆美元成長到25兆美元，再成長到30兆美元。這意味著人們的口袋裡會有錢。我想我們要去商場購物。他們還能怎麼辦？所以，當孩子們踢新式足球時，他們只能對孩子們大吼大叫。所以他們會去商場購物、吃飯，花掉他們新獲得的財富，而這將會侵蝕當前的經濟。

Now what we have to do is just create these great environments. And ultimately, we'll use AI like everybody else to enhance our loyalty, to enhance our ShopSimon to enhance our search efforts to connect with the consumer. And we'll talk to ChatGPT and ask them what we've heard or did, whatever, what we could do to them all to make it better and do all this stuff.

現在我們要做的就是創造這些良好的環境。最終，我們將像其他人一樣利用人工智慧來增強客戶忠誠度，增強我們的 ShopSimon 功能，從而加強我們的搜尋工作，與消費者建立聯繫。我們會和 ChatGPT 溝通，問他們我們聽到了什麼或做了什麼，總之，我們可以做些什麼來改進它，做所有這些事情。

But I'm looking at it positively. We lasted 70 years. We're only going to work three days a week. We're going to create $12 trillion of value and people are going to go the mall to shop, because what else are they going to do, okay? Do you see what I'm saying?

但我對此持正面態度。我們堅持了70年。我們每週只工作三天。我們將創造 12 兆美元的價值，人們會去商場購物，因為他們還能做什麼？你明白我的意思嗎？

Yeah. Hopefully. Simon?

是的。但願如此。西蒙？

So in any event, but we're experimenting how to do it. We are -- we've got a friend called Harvey that we may create the first AI CEO. Now I'm not saying he's going to replace me, but he could replace one of our divisions or elsewhere. So stay tuned. We'll use it effectively like we've used everything else.

總之，我們正在試驗如何實現這一點。我們是－我們有個朋友叫哈維，我們可能會把他培養成第一位人工智慧CEO。我不是說他會取代我，但他可能會取代我們某個部門或其他地方的職位。敬請期待。我們會像使用其他所有東西一樣，有效地利用它。

Vince Tibone, Green Street Capital.

Vince Tibone，Green Street Capital。

I wanted to follow up more time on the Taubman cap rate. Just specifically, if you -- look, the way I'm looking at it is just the purchase price is just over $1.5 billion if we use Friday's close for the OP unit value plus incremental debt. And then trailing 12-month NOI is right around $77 million for 12% of Taubman using your supplemental. So that's more like a low-5s cap rate on a trailing 12-month basis. So I mean, is it really that much synergies to get to the second quarter, second half?

我想花更多時間跟進 Taubman 的資本化率。具體來說，如果你——你看，我的看法是，如果我們用周五收盤價作為OP單位價值加上新增債務，那麼收購價格略高於15億美元。然後，根據你的補充數據，Taubman 12% 的股份的過去 12 個月的淨營業收入約為 7,700 萬美元。所以，以過去 12 個月計算，資本化率大概在 5% 左右。所以我的意思是，真的有那麼多協同效應可以讓我們進入第二季、下半年嗎？

Yeah, we told you -- we called out -- we told you the numbers. Vince, at this point in our career, we're not going to mislead you or the public. Your cap rates are too low for certain assets, but not too high for ours. And we told you where the cap rates are. And we told you where the accretion is, and we told you everything there is to tell you about that deal.

是的，我們告訴過你們──我們喊過──我們告訴你們那些數字。文斯，在我們事業的這個階段，我們不會誤導你或公眾。你們的資本化率對於某些資產來說太低，但對我們的資產來說又不會太高。我們已經告訴你資本化率在哪裡了。我們已經告訴你增產區域在哪裡，也告訴你關於那筆交易的一切。

They've got a lot of growth this year. They've got growth next year. And we told you everything that there is to tell you. I will tell you, I think your cap rates for our asset base is too high. I think your peers at Green Street have a product that is too low compared to ours.

他們今年取得了很大的成長。他們明年會有成長。我們已經把該告訴你們的都告訴你們了。恕我直言，我認為你們對我們資產基礎的資本化率太高了。我認為你們 Green Street 的同行們的產品與我們的產品相比價格太低了。

Our growth is better. And the longevity of our asset base, you don't factor in our assets last 70 years.

我們的成長情況更好。而且，你也沒有考慮到我們資產基礎的壽命可以持續70年。

Haendel St. Juste, Mizuho Securities.

Haendel St. Juste，瑞穗證券。

David, good to hear from you. Eli, welcome to the call. My question is on corporate structure. Congrats on the internalization of the remaining part of TRG. But I'm curious if there are any changes or shift in how you're thinking about your investment in your European platform, Klépierre. Earlier this year, you bought an asset in Italy off balance sheet outside of Klépierre. So I guess, I'm curious if you're happy to own more assets outside of Klépierre.

大衛，很高興收到你的來信。Eli，歡迎接聽電話。我的問題是關於公司結構的。恭喜TRG剩餘部分的內部化。但我很好奇，Klépierre，您對在歐洲平台上的投資有什麼想法或轉變嗎？今年早些時候，您在 Klépierre 之外，在義大利購買了一項表外資產。所以我想知道，您是否樂意在 Klépierre 之外擁有更多資產。

But then I also wanted to add, it seemed like recently you opted to convert some of the Klépierre exchangeable note holders into stock, not cash, which might suggest you have a longer-term hold for that stock. So maybe help us reconcile those two dynamics and how you're thinking about the Klépierre platform.

但我還想補充一點，最近您似乎選擇將一些 Klépierre 可交換票據持有人轉換為股票，而不是現金，這可能表明您打算長期持有這些股票。所以，或許您可以幫助我們調和這兩種動態，以及您對 Klépierre 平台的看法。

Well, we bought the mall, which has nothing to do with the -- which is a luxury outlet center in the middle of the two. It's actually on balance sheet. It's on balance sheet. Yes. So that has nothing to do with Klépierre.

我們買下了這家購物中心，它與位於兩者中間的奢侈品奧特萊斯中心沒有任何關係。實際上它已列入資產負債表。它已列入資產負債表。是的。所以這和克萊皮埃爾沒有任何關係。

Klépierre, look, it's been a great investment for us. We evaluate it all the time. We did get some -- as you know, we issued the convert. Did we do it three years ago? two years ago? Three years ago. We got conversion notice, we did settle in shares, and we look and evaluate that investment continually, and we'll continue to do that. But it's been a very good investment.

克萊皮埃爾，你看，這對我們來說是一項很棒的投資。我們一直在評估它。我們確實得到了一些——正如你所知，我們發行了皈依者。我們三年前就做過這件事了嗎？兩年前？三年前。我們收到了轉換通知，我們已完成股份結算，我們會持續關注和評估這項投資，並將繼續這樣做。但這筆投資非常划算。

We've added a lot of value to that organization. I think, again, the market should appreciate where Klépierre go back -- let's turn the clock back 10 years ago where Klépierre was and look at where it is today and for our strategic input vision, guidance created the new Klépierre that exists today that's positioned to succeed in European full-price retailer with the best. And that's all -- I mean, again, the management team did a great job, but we hired the management team, okay?

我們為該組織增添了許多價值。我認為，市場應該再次認識到 Klépierre 的發展歷程——讓我們把時間撥回到 10 年前 Klépierre 的境況，再看看它現在的狀況。我們的策略投入、願景和指導造就瞭如今的 Klépierre，使其能夠與歐洲最好的全價零售商一起取得成功。就這些了——我的意思是，再說一遍，管理團隊做得很好，但是管理團隊是我們自己聘請的，好嗎？

So -- but at the same time, we have a fiduciary duty to continue to add value to Klépierre while we're on the Board, while I were on the Board. At the same time, we have a fiduciary duty to our Simon shareholders to look at all of our investments to see if that's the best allocation of our capital, and we will continue to do so.

所以——但同時，我們有受託責任，在我們擔任董事期間，在我擔任董事期間，繼續為 Klépierre 創造價值。同時，我們對西蒙的股東負有信託責任，需要審查我們所有的投資，看看這是否是我們資本的最佳配置，我們將繼續這樣做。

I appreciate that, David. I guess I just wanted to clarify because I mentioned the asset in Italy you bought because you bought it on balance sheet and not in Klépierre. So I guess, I was curious if you were happy owning more assets outside of Klépierre in Europe?

謝謝你，大衛。我只是想澄清一下，因為我提到了你在義大利購買的資產，是因為你是透過資產負債表購買的，而不是透過 Klépierre 購買的。所以，我很好奇，您是否樂於在歐洲擁有 Klépierre 以外的更多資產？

Yeah. We would probably -- I'm sorry, if I misunderstood. So we would probably only look to -- we've kind of decided that the full-price -- again, this could always change, right? But we've kind of decided that if there are full-price assets to acquire while we continue to hold our Klépierre investment and stand the Board, that Klépierre would do that.

是的。我們可能會——如果我理解錯了，我很抱歉。所以我們可能只會考慮——我們已經決定全價——當然，這隨時可能改變，對吧？但我們已經決定，如果在我們繼續持有 Klépierre 投資並維持董事會運作的同時，有全價資產需要收購，那麼 Klépierre 將會進行收購。

On the other hand, if it's in the outlet world, because we look at outlets worldwide, we have outlets in Asia, obviously, North America, both in Mexico, Canada, US, obviously, several countries in Asia, that we would look at those for our own accounts, the signing accounts.

另一方面，如果是在奧特萊斯領域，因為我們關注的是全球的奧特萊斯，我們在亞洲、北美（包括墨西哥、加拿大、美國）以及亞洲其他幾個國家都有奧特萊斯，我們會考慮這些奧特萊斯作為我們自己的帳戶，也就是簽約帳戶。

Okay. I'm sorry, I misunderstood your question.

好的。抱歉，我誤解了你的問題。

Mike Mueller, JPMorgan.

麥克·穆勒，摩根大通。

So Taubman has used a secured debt strategy for the portfolio ever since the '98 restructuring. Do you think you'll be unencumbering a number of those assets over time? And as a follow-up, are there any parts of that portfolio that look like they're sale candidates today?

自 1998 年重組以來，陶布曼一直對該投資組合採取擔保債務策略。你認為隨著時間的推移，你會逐步解除其中一些資產的負擔嗎？其次，該投資組合中是否有任何部分看起來適合出售？

Michael, it's Brian. You're right. They did go to a secured strategy over time. I would expect that over time, we will unlock that and use our unsecured capital to unencumbered assets in due course to further improve our unencumbered asset base, which is already incredibly powerful.

邁克爾，我是布萊恩。你說得對。隨著時間的推移，他們確實採取了更穩健的策略。我預計隨著時間的推移，我們將釋放這些資金，並在適當的時候利用我們的無擔保資本來購買無抵押資產，進一步改善我們目前已經非常強大的無抵押資產基礎。

As far as the portfolio on balance today, I think we're comfortable where it sits, but we naturally evaluate things frequently. And so that could change over time. But for now, I think we're in a good place.

就目前的投資組合整體情況而言，我認為我們對它感到滿意，但我們自然會經常進行評估。所以這種情況可能會隨著時間而改變。但就目前而言，我認為我們處境不錯。

Ronald Kamdem, Morgan Stanley.

羅納德‧卡姆登，摩根士丹利。

It's Adam on for Ron. I think we had always looked at the dividend sort of post-COVID as I think you guys are sort of targeting getting back to that pre-COVID dividend level. You're now past that.

亞當代替榮恩上場。我認為我們一直以來都把目光投向了後疫情時代的股息，因為我認為你們的目標是恢復到疫情前的股息水準。你現在已經過了那個階段了。

So I guess just sitting here today, how do you sort of stack rank the capital allocation priorities? I know you've talked about sort of development of -- obviously, of the Class A assets, but also, I think you've talked in recent quarters about some of the Class B or B+ development opportunities or redevelopment opportunities as well. So just sitting here the different options in terms of capital allocation, how do you sort of stack rank those dividend buybacks potentially development, redevelopment, et cetera?

所以我想，今天坐在這裡，您如何對資本配置的優先順序進行排序？我知道您談到了 A 級資產的開發，但我想您最近幾季也談到了一些 B 級或 B+ 級資產的開發機會或重建機會。所以，就資本配置的不同選擇而言，你如何對股利回購、潛在的開發、重建等進行排序？

Actually, thank you for -- I forgot we passed our COVID? We did? All right, good. Well done. So look, I think one of the things that you'll probably -- we do have a buyback open, right?

實際上，謝謝你——我都忘了我們已經通過新冠檢測了？我們做到了嗎？好的，很好。做得好。所以你看，我認為你可能會遇到的一件事是——我們確實有一個股票回購計劃，對吧？

Obviously, we can't buy that now. But one of the things you'll see from us most likely, which is not in the numbers, but we issued 5-million-unit shares. So we'll look to quarterize that over -- we're not issued -- we don't -- we have a balance sheet that does not need to issue equity.

顯然，我們現在買不到。但您很可能會看到我們發行了 500 萬股股票，雖然這在數字上並不明顯。所以我們會考慮將其按季度分攤——我們沒有發行——我們沒有——我們的資產負債表不需要發行股票。

So now as part of the deal, Taubman family really wanted units, equity. So I think over time, obviously, subject to market conditions, we'll look to quarterize, i.e., at least want to get our share level back to kind of where it was pre-issuance for the TRG deal. Now that's subject to market conditions. We'll be very smart about it and we do everything else.

所以，作為交易的一部分，陶布曼家族真正想要的是股份和股權。所以我認為隨著時間的推移，顯然，在市場條件允許的情況下，我們會考慮分拆股份，也就是說，至少希望我們的股份水準能夠恢復到 TRG 交易發行前的水準。這取決於市場情況。我們會非常謹慎地處理這件事，其他一切都由我們來做。

But that -- so that has moved up the -- I still think we're going to want to grow our dividend. And obviously, I think I said last time, the development stuff does take time to put the capital to work. We don't move as fast as these data centers that just go up nine months.

但是，即便如此——即便如此——我仍然認為我們會希望提高股息。而且很顯然，我想我上次也說過，開發案確實需要時間才能讓資金發揮作用。我們的發展速度沒有這些資料中心那麼快，它們九個月就能建成。

But I think quarterizing that $5 million issuance has moved up to the top of the charts. But that does not mean that the capital redeployment in the portfolio slows down. We're very -- and you're rightly pointing out that we all get in these classifications of A-, B+.

但我認為將這 500 萬美元的發行額分成四份發行，已經成為最有效的發行方式。但這並不代表投資組合中的資本再部署速度會放緩。我們非常——你指出得對，我們都被歸類在 A-、B+ 等等級。

We're going to put it where the capital is accretive to that property value. Now we don't use Green Street cap rates. We use David Simon's cap rates.

我們將把資金投入到能提升房產價值的地方。現在我們不使用格林街資本化率。我們採用大衛·西蒙的資本化率。

And over my career, I've been more right than wrong. So we could do a ChatGPT pull of who's got the better cap rates. I'm going to go with David for the time being, but I've been proven wrong. So we're blowing and going, and we've got some really exciting big things on the horizon to do with capital.

縱觀我的職業生涯，我做出的正確判斷遠多於錯誤判斷。所以我們可以利用 ChatGPT 來統計哪些公司的資本化率比較高。我暫時會選擇大衛，但事實證明我錯了。所以我們正在蓬勃發展，我們有一些非常令人興奮的大項目即將啟動，需要用到資金。

And just to name a few, we bought out Seritage at Boca, which is a huge, massive thing to a great center, which should be a 4.5% cap rate. But don't worry, we're not going to -- our development yield is going to be greater than that, much greater than that.

舉幾個例子來說，我們收購了博卡青年隊的 Seritage 股份，這對一個偉大的中心來說是一件非常重大的事情，這應該能帶來 4.5% 的資本化率。但別擔心，我們不會——我們的開發成果將會遠遠超過這個水準。

But we've got Fashion Valley. We've got Boca. We've got Barton Creek. These are just two or three that are popping.

但我們還有時尚谷。我們有博卡了。我們有巴頓溪。這只是其中兩三個比較火的例子。

Later in the week, the team will be announcing a really landmark deal in Nashville at a great site in a great city that we have a very important presence in now, complemented by the TRG assets that we now have full operational control with, which is a very good asset in Opry Mills as an example, which is a very good mill and a distinct trade area.

本週晚些時候，團隊將在納許維爾宣布一項具有里程碑意義的交易，地點位於一座我們目前擁有非常重要業務的偉大城市的絕佳地段，此外，我們還擁有TRG的資產，並對其進行了全面運營控制，例如Opry Mills就是一項非常好的資產，它是一家非常好的工廠，也是一個獨特的貿易區。

So that will be our new ground-up development that we're really excited about. So it's pretty much status quo other than we're going to be moving up the -- I don't want another 5 million shares outstanding. Okay? We're going to run a little bit over. We got two more questions.

所以，這將是我們從零開始的全新開發項目，我們對此感到非常興奮。所以除了我們要增加股份之外，其他方面基本上維持現狀——我不想再增加 500 萬股流通股。好的？我們會稍微超時一點。我們還有兩個問題。

Floris Dijkum, Ladenburg Thalmann.

弗洛里斯·迪庫姆，拉登堡·塔爾曼。

I know we're running late. David, great to hear your voice. Eli, again, I'll not be the first one to welcome you, but good to have you on the call as well.

我知道我們遲到了。大衛，很高興聽到你的聲音。Eli，再次聲明，我不是第一個歡迎你的人，但很高興你能參加這通電話。

And David, I love your passion. Question for you. I'll try to keep it relatively short here, but your S&O pipeline, could you talk about that? And I note that Kering has dropped out of your top 10 tenants list. Presumably, they haven't closed any stores.

大衛，我很欣賞你的熱情。問你一個問題。我盡量長話短說，但您能談談您的S&O管道嗎？我注意到開雲集團已經跌出了你們的前十大租戶名單。據推測，他們沒有關閉任何門市。

Is that just you haven't signed new leases or they haven't opened new stores in the portfolio? And maybe talk a little bit about in that S&O, how your luxury is trending or how you expect that to trend maybe?

是你們還沒簽署新的租約，還是他們還沒在旗下開設新的門市？或許可以在銷售與市場分析中稍微談談奢侈品市場的趨勢，或者你預期未來的趨勢會如何？

Floris, it's Brian. So the S&O pipeline is 310 basis points as of September 30. And you're right, Kering did drop out of the top 10. It's just simply because we opened up more stores with other retailers and forced them above the Kering ranking. So it's really a reflection of the robust activity that's on the ground from a leasing perspective.

弗洛里斯，我是布萊恩。截至9月30日，S&O管道流量為310個基點。你說得對，開雲集團確實跌出了前十名。原因很簡單，就是因為我們與其他零售商合作開設了更多門市，使他們的排名超過了開雲集團。所以，這確實反映了租賃市場目前的強勁勢頭。

Kering is still a very important tenant. And over time, we would expect to continue to see them move around to the top rankings. As you look at that 310 basis points, there is a substantial amount of luxury in there. It's probably to the tune of about 50 to 60 basis points of the total 310 basis points. So the luxury cohort of tenants continues to favor our portfolio and continue to see growth with us.

開雲集團仍然是非常重要的租戶。隨著時間的推移，我們預計他們將繼續躋身排名前列。當你看到這 310 個基點時，你會發現其中包含相當可觀的奢華成分。這可能相當於總共 310 個基點中的 50 到 60 個基點。因此，高端租戶群體繼續青睞我們的投資組合，並繼續與我們共同成長。

And again, we've got -- we're -- our occupancy is pretty high, but we're -- a lot of this new stuff is re-tenancy. And obviously, Forever 21, is having -- re-leasing all that space is having an impact on the S&O, right?

而且，我們的入住率相當高，但是許多新租戶都是重新租客。顯然，Forever 21 重新出租所有這些空間會對 S&O 產生影響，對吧？

Tayo Okusanya, Deutsche Bank.

Tayo Okusanya，德意志銀行。

Eli, congratulations. Welcome aboard. In regards to OPI, just curious what you guys are -- how you're thinking about that business again, is a little bit more value-oriented. I'm just kind of curious if there's opportunities to kind of monetize that? Or is just the world too murky right now to really have an opportunity?

Eli，恭喜你。歡迎登船。關於 OPI，我只是好奇你們──你們是如何看待這個產業的，是不是更注重價值？我只是有點好奇，有沒有什麼機會可以利用這一點賺錢？或者說，現在的世界局勢太過混亂，根本沒機會？

Well, we'll see how that transpires. But I will compliment the team at Catalyst. They're doing really terrific work at a number of the brands, not all -- some of the brands are -- again, it's not perfect sailing, but they're doing a great job at JCPenney, great job at Aeropostale, a great job at Brooks Brothers, a really good job at Lucky.

好，我們拭目以待。但我要讚揚 Catalyst 團隊。他們在許多品牌都做得非常出色，雖然不是所有品牌都如此——有些品牌確實如此——再說一遍，情況並非一帆風順，但他們在 JCPenney 做得非常好，在 Aeropostale 做得非常好，在 Brooks Brothers 做得非常好，在 Lucky 做得非常好。

So we've been very pleased with how Catalyst has integrated with the various brands. That merger is really -- this is the first 9 months. If you go back, it really happened in early '25. So they're doing a terrific job. It's stable, good results.

因此，我們對 Catalyst 與各個品牌的整合情況感到非常滿意。那次合併其實──這是最初的9個月。如果追溯過去，這件事實際上發生在 2025 年初。所以他們做得非常出色。它很穩定，效果很好。

Obviously, out of Forever 21, which was as much as we tried to say that we couldn't primarily because of the de minimis, now that -- we would have a fighting chance had we not suffered from the de minimis, but we couldn't overcome that. Now thankfully, it's changed and at least it puts domestic retailers on an even footing with certain foreign retailers.

顯然，在 Forever 21 之外，儘管我們盡力解釋說我們無法做到，主要是因為微不足道的損失，但現在——如果我們沒有受到微不足道的損失的影響，我們或許還有一線生機，但我們無法克服這一點。值得慶幸的是，現在情況有所改變，至少讓國內零售商與某些外國零售商站在了同一起跑線上。

So long story short, Catalyst is doing a terrific job. And like everything else, look, if I would say we'll always look at what the best options are. But for the time being, it's in good stead.

簡而言之，Catalyst 的表現非常出色。就像其他事情一樣，我想說的是，我們總是會考慮最佳方案是什麼。但就目前而言，情況良好。

And again, they skew toward -- a few of the brands skew towards the lower income. And I will say this, the lower income and the higher income as well is they're looking for value. So value can be -- value is in the eye of the beholder, but you got to give the consumer today value, whether they're a high-income consumer or a lower income consumer, value is the name of the game. And I think Catalyst has recognized that and are providing it at a high end like the Brooks Brothers and at the kind of the more moderate Aero and Penney. So it's all good.

而且，有些品牌的目標客群偏向低收入者。我還要說，無論是低收入者還是高收入者，他們都在追求性價比。所以價值可以是──價值在於觀察者的眼中，但你必須給今天的消費者價值，無論他們是高收入消費者還是低收入消費者，價值才是關鍵。我認為 Catalyst 已經意識到了這一點，並在像 Brooks Brothers 這樣的高端品牌以及 Aero 和 Penney 這樣的中檔品牌中都提供了這種產品。一切都很好。

There are no further questions. I would like to turn the conference over to David Simon for closing remarks.

沒有其他問題了。我謹將會議交給大衛‧西蒙先生，請他作閉幕致詞。

Okay. We had a very active quarter. We're going to have a very active fourth quarter. So more good stuff to come. And thank you very much for your interest and your questions.

好的。我們這個季度非常忙碌。第四季我們會非常忙碌。所以，接下來會有更多好東西。非常感謝您的關注與提問。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. This will conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and thank you for your participation.

謝謝。今天的會議到此結束。現在您可以斷開線路了，感謝您的參與。