西蒙地產 (SPG) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings. Welcome to Simon Property Group's fourth quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this conference is being recorded.

問候。歡迎參加西蒙地產集團2025年第四季業績電話會議。（操作員說明）請注意，本次會議正在錄音。

I will now turn the conference over to Tom Ward, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations. Thank you.

現在我將把會議交給投資者關係高級副總裁湯姆沃德。謝謝。

You may begin.

你可以開始了。

Thank you, Jan, and thank you all for joining us this evening. Presenting on today's call are David Simon, Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President; Eli Simon, Chief Operating Officer; and Brian McDade, Chief Financial Officer. A quick reminder that statements made during this call may be deemed forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. And actual results may differ materially due to a variety of risks, uncertainties and other factors. We refer you to today's press release and our SEC filings for a detailed discussion of the risk factors relating to those forward-looking statements.

謝謝Jan，也謝謝各位今晚光臨。出席今天電話會議的有：董事長、執行長兼總裁大衛·西蒙；營運長伊萊·西蒙；以及財務長布萊恩·麥克達德。提醒各位，本次電話會議中發表的聲明可能被視為 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》安全港條款意義上的前瞻性聲明。實際結果可能因各種風險、不確定因素和其他因素而與預期有重大差異。有關這些前瞻性聲明的風險因素的詳細討論，請參閱我們今天的新聞稿和我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。

Please note that this call includes information that may be accurate only as of today's date. Reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures are included within the press release and the supplemental information in today's Form 8-K filing. Both the press release and the supplemental information are available on our IR website at investors.simon.com.

請注意，本次通話中包含的資訊可能僅截至今日有效。新聞稿和今天提交的 8-K 表格文件中的補充資訊中包含了非 GAAP 財務指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的調整表。新聞稿和補充資訊均可在我們的投資者關係網站 investors.simon.com 上查閱。

Our conference call this evening will be limited to 1 hour. For those who would like to participate in the question-and-answer session, we ask that you please respect our request to limit yourself to 1 question.

今晚的電話會議時長將限制在1小時以內。想要參加問答環節的各位，請尊重我們的要求，每人限提一個問題。

I'm pleased to introduce David Simon.

我很高興向大家介紹大衛·西蒙。

Good evening. We delivered strong financial and operational results in the fourth quarter, capping another impressive year for our company. We achieved excellent leasing performance, acquired $2 billion of high-quality retail properties, completed more than 20 major redevelopment projects and opened a new premium outlet in Indonesia.

晚安.我們在第四季度取得了強勁的財務和營運業績，為公司又一個令人印象深刻的年份畫上了圓滿的句號。我們取得了優異的租賃業績，收購了價值 20 億美元的優質零售物業，完成了 20 多個重大重建項目，並在印尼開設了一家新的高端奧特萊斯。

We reported record real estate funds from operations of $4.8 billion or $12.73 per share. Our results reflect solid fundamentals, strong occupancy, accelerating shopper traffic growth, healthy and growing retail sales, positive supply and demand dynamics, all driving improvement in our cash flow. We returned approximately $3.5 billion in cash to our shareholders through common stock repurchases and record cash dividends. In our yearly tally, we have now paid approximately $48 billion in cash to shareholders in dividends over our history as a public company.

我們公佈的房地產營運資金創歷史新高，達到 48 億美元，即每股 12.73 美元。我們的業績反映了穩健的基本面、強勁的入住率、不斷加速的客流量成長、健康且持續成長的零售額、正面的供需動態，所有這些都推動了我們現金流的改善。我們透過普通股回購和創紀錄的現金股息，向股東返還了約 35 億美元的現金。根據我們的年度統計，自我們作為一家上市公司以來，我們已經向股東支付了約 480 億美元的現金股利。

With that, I'm now going to turn it over to Eli, who will discuss our leasing and investment activities, and then Brian will cover our fourth quarter results and our outlook for next year in more detail.

接下來，我將把發言權交給 Eli，他將討論我們的租賃和投資活動，然後 Brian 將更詳細地介紹我們第四季的業績和明年的展望。

Thank you. During 2025, we acquired The Mall, two well-known luxury outlet centers in Italy; our partners' interest in Brickell City Centre, a premier mixed-use property in Miami's rapidly growing central business district; the remaining 12% interest in Calvin Realty Group we did not previously own in Philips place, a high productivity open air retail center in Charlotte, a market that we know well with significant upside from remerchandising and densification.

謝謝。2025 年，我們收購了 The Mall，義大利兩家知名奢侈品奧特萊斯購物中心；我們合作夥伴在布里克爾城市中心（邁阿密快速發展的中央商務區的一處頂級綜合用途物業）的權益；以及我們之前未持有的 Calvin Realty Group 在菲利普斯廣場（夏洛特的一個高生產力露天零售中心）的剩餘 12% 權益。我們對夏洛特市場非常了解，該市場透過重新招商和提高密度具有巨大的成長潛力。

These deals enhance the quality of our portfolio, and we look forward to deploy our leasing and property management expertise, along with our strong balance sheet, pursue new growth and value creation opportunities across these properties. Retailer demand remains strong across our portfolio. We signed more than 1,300 leases totaling over 4.4 million square feet during the quarter and over 4,600 leases for more than 17 million square feet for the year.

這些交易提升了我們投資組合的質量，我們期待運用我們的租賃和物業管理專業知識，以及我們強大的資產負債表，在這些物業中尋求新的成長和價值創造機會。零售商對我們產品組合的需求依然強勁。本季度我們簽署了超過 1300 份租賃合同，總面積超過 440 萬平方英尺；全年簽署了超過 4600 份租賃合同，總面積超過 1700 萬平方英尺。

Approximately 30% of our annual volume was new deals, reflecting continued strong demand across our portfolio. Now turning to development. We completed more than 20 significant redevelopment projects in 2021, including retail and experiential additions at Southdale Center, Stanford Shopping Center, King of Prussia, and Forum Shops at Caesars and mixed-use additions, including hotel and residential at Northgate Station and Lakeline Mall respectively.

我們年度交易量中約有 30% 為新交易，反映出我們產品組合中持續強勁的需求。現在轉向開發。2021 年，我們完成了 20 多個重要的重建項目，包括 Southdal​​e Center、Stanford Shopping Center、King of Prussia 和 Forum Shops at Caesars 的零售和體驗式擴建，以及 Northgate Station 和 Lakeline Mall 的混合用途擴建（包括酒店和住宅）。

In 2026, notable retail and mixed-use projects scheduled to come online include Brea Mall, Northgate Station First Phase of residential and open air expansion with restaurants and retailers at the shops in Missiniejo; Fryerwood Mall with the new harvest market, Dick's Sporting Goods and Residential, and at Tacoma Mall, new village shops and restaurants.

2026 年，計劃投入運營的值得關注的零售和混合用途項目包括：布雷亞購物中心；北門車站一期住宅和露天擴建項目，以及米西涅霍的商店中的餐廳和零售商；弗萊爾伍德購物中心，包括新的農貿市場、迪克體育用品和住宅；以及塔科馬購物中心，包括新的鄉村商店和餐廳。

We also expect to begin to construction on exciting new projects, including anchor redevelopments Fashion mall at Keystone and Town Center at Bokaro Town, expansions at Toronto, Desert Hills and Woodbury Common Priam Mellence are progressing and Sage Hill, our new open-air retail and mixed-use development in Nashville. We also plan to enhance the merchandise mix and invest in meaningful capital upgrades at former TRG assets, including the Mall at Green Hills, International Plaza and Cherry Creek Shopping Center.

我們還計劃開始建造一些令人興奮的新項目，包括 Keystone 時尚購物中心和 Bokaro Town 鎮中心的重建項目，Toronto、Desert Hills 和 Woodbury Common Priam Mellence 的擴建項目正在推進中，以及我們在納許維爾新建的露天零售和混合用途開發項目 Sage Hill。我們還計劃改善商品組合，並對前 TRG 資產進行有意義的資本升級，包括 Green Hills 購物中心、國際廣場和 Cherry Creek 購物中心。

At year-end, our share of the net cost of development across all platforms totaled approximately $1.5 billion with a blended yield of 9% approximately 45% of net costs are from mixed-use projects. Our pipeline of new development and redevelopment opportunities continues to grow and now exceeds $4 billion.

截至年底，我們在所有平台開發淨成本中所佔份額總計約為 15 億美元，綜合收益率為 9%，其中約 45% 的淨成本來自混合用途項目。我們不斷增加的新開發和重建項目儲備，目前已超過 40 億美元。

I will now turn it over to Brian, who will walk through our fourth quarter results.

現在我將把發言權交給布萊恩，他將為大家介紹我們第四季的業績。

Thank you, Eli. Real Estate FFO was $3.49 per share in the fourth quarter compared to $3.35 in the prior year, 4.2% growth. Domestic and international operations both performed well, contributing $0.26 of growth driven by a higher lease income across the business. As anticipated, lower interest income and higher interest expense combined were a $0.07 quarter.

謝謝你，伊萊。第四季房地產FFO為每股3.49美元，去年同期為3.35美元，成長4.2%。國內和國際業務均表現良好，在業務整體租賃收入增加的推動下，實現了 0.26 美元的成長。正如預期的那樣，利息收入減少和利息支出增加總計每季虧損 0.07 美元。

Domestic property NOI growth was strong and increased 4.8% year over year for the quarter and 4.4% for the year. Portfolio NOI, which includes our international properties at constant currency grew 5.1% for the quarter and 4.7% for the year. Malls and Premium Outlets ended the year at 96.4%. Occupancy in the Mills ended at 99.2%. The addition of the TRG assets reduced occupancy by 20 basis points from malls and premium outlets and 30 basis points for the mills. We expect to drive higher occupancy at these assets as we execute on our leasing strategy.

國內房地產淨營業收入成長強勁，本季年增 4.8%，全年年增 4.4%。包括我們國際物業在內的投資組合淨營業收入（以固定匯率計算）本季成長 5.1%，全年成長 4.7%。購物中心和奧特萊斯年末銷售額為 96.4%。Mills 的入住率最終達到 99.2%。TRG資產的加入使購物中心和高檔奧特萊斯的入住率下降了20個基點，工廠的入住率下降了30個基點。我們預計，隨著租賃策略的實施，這些物業的入住率將會提高。

Average base minimum rents increased 4.7% year over year for the malls and the premium outlets. The TRG properties contributed approximately 250 basis points to this growth. Retailer sales per square foot for the malls and the premium outlets were $799 per square foot for the year. The SPG only portfolio was up 2% year over year. Importantly, total sales volumes grew approximately 4% in the important fourth quarter and 3% for the full year.

購物中心和高檔奧特萊斯的平均最低基本租金年增 4.7%。TRG 的資產為此成長貢獻了約 250 個基點。該年度購物中心和暢貨中心零售商每平方英尺的銷售額為每平方英尺 799 美元。僅SPG投資組合年增2%。值得注意的是，第四季總銷量成長了約 4%，全年成長了約 3%。

Occupancy cost at the end of the year was 12.7%. Turning to the balance sheet. During 2025, we completed approximately $9 billion in financing activities, including a dual tranche US senior notes offering that totaled $1.5 billion at a combined average term of 7.8 years and a weighted average coupon rate of [4.77%] and completed -- also completed $7 billion of secured loan refinancing and extension in the year. Subsequent to year-end, we concluded the $800 million offering of five year notes with spread of 65 basis points year treasury.

年末佔用成本為 12.7%。接下來看一下資產負債表。2025 年，我們完成了約 90 億美元的融資活動，其中包括總額為 15 億美元的雙期美國高級票據發行，合併平均期限為 7.8 年，加權平均票面利率為 4.77%；此外，我們還完成了 70 億美元的擔保貸款再融資和延期。年末之後，我們完成了 8 億美元的五年票據發行，利差為 65 個基點（與美國公債殖利率之比）。

We used the proceeds to repay $800 million of notes that matured on January 15, 2026. Our A-rated balance sheet provides a distinct advantage with more than $9 billion of liquidity at year-end and a net debt-to-EBITDA measure of 5.0 times.

我們利用所得款項償還了 2026 年 1 月 15 日到期的 8 億美元票據。我們A級資產負債表有明顯的優勢，年底流動資金超過90億美元，淨債務與EBITDA比率為5.0倍。

During 2025, we paid more than $3.2 billion in common stock dividends and repurchased over 1.2 million shares for approximately $227 million. Subsequent to year-end, we repurchased an additional 273,000 shares for $50 million. And today, we announced our dividend of $2.20 per share for the first quarter, a year over year increase of $0.10 or 4.8%. The dividend is payable on March 31.

2025 年，我們支付了超過 32 億美元的普通股股息，並以約 2.27 億美元的價格回購了超過 120 萬股股票。年末之後，我們又以 5,000 萬美元的價格回購了 273,000 股股票。今天，我們宣布第一季每股派息 2.20 美元，比上年同期成長 0.10 美元，增幅為 4.8%。股息將於3月31日支付。

Turning to our '26 guidance. We expect real estate FFO of $13 to $13.25 per share with a midpoint of $13.13 the guidance range assumes domestic property NOI growth of at least 3% with higher net interest expense of $0.25 to $0.30 per share versus 2025, reflecting current market interest rate conditions.

讓我們參考一下我們2026年的指導。我們預計房地產 FFO 為每股 13 美元至 13.25 美元，中位數為 13.13 美元。此指引範圍假設國內房地產 NOI 成長至少 3%，淨利息支出較 2025 年增加 0.25 美元至 0.30 美元/股，反映了當前的市場利率狀況。

Thank you. We will now open it up for questions.

謝謝。現在開放提問環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Caitlin Burrows, Goldman Sachs.

Caitlin Burrows，高盛集團。

Maybe on the leasing side, you mentioned that 30% of lease signings last year were on new leases. So could you give some detail on what rents you're getting on new leases and renewal leases and how your pipeline today and depth of demand compared to a year ago, I guess, while keeping in mind the TRG deal and now the portfolio is larger.

或許在租賃方面，您提到去年簽訂的租賃合約中有 30% 是新租賃合約。那麼，您能否詳細說明一下新租約和續約的租金情況，以及您目前的業務儲備和需求深度與一年前相比如何？我想，同時也要考慮到 TRG 交易以及現在投資組合的規模更大。

Caitlin, it's Brian. Look, I think what we would say to that is certainly 30% is a good run rate for the leasing. We disclosed the new rents on our leases, which are approximately $65 per square foot. We would expect that to continue into 2026

凱特琳，我是布萊恩。我認為，30% 的租賃率絕對是一個不錯的水平。我們在租賃合約中公佈了新的租金，約為每平方英尺 65 美元。我們預計這種情況會持續到2026年。

And then just from the pipeline perspective, year-to-date, our pipeline is up about 15% over last year. And that's really broad-based across all categories. So no change in tenant demand, if anything, it's increasing.

從專案儲備的角度來看，今年迄今為止，我們的專案儲備比去年增長了約 15%。而且這種情況在所有類別中都非常普遍。所以租戶需求沒有變化，反而還在增加。

Samir Khanal, Bank of America.

薩米爾·卡納爾，美國銀行。

I guess, David or Eli, going back to November, you launched the the Simons loyalty program. Just -- is there any early observations you can share about the program? I mean, as it relates to maybe impact on traffic or retailer sales. Maybe Eli, anything would be helpful from that end.

我猜，David 或 Eli，追溯到 11 月，你們推出了 Simons 會員忠誠度計劃。能否分享一下您對該專案的一些初步觀察？我的意思是，這可能對交通流量或零售商的銷售產生影響。或許對伊萊來說，任何幫助都會有幫助。

Yeah, sure. So it's obviously early days, but we've been very pleased with the adoption from both a customer perspective but also getting brand excited about it. And so we're still in the membership acquisition phase, increasing engagement. We had a great holiday activation. They got a lot of organic buzz, which was exciting and I think helped to increase traffic a bit.

當然可以。所以現在顯然還處於早期階段，但我們對客戶的接受度以及品牌方對此的熱情都非常滿意。因此，我們目前仍處於會員獲取階段，致力於提高會員參與度。我們的假期推廣活動非常成功。他們獲得了大量的自然流量，這令人興奮，我認為這有助於增加一些流量。

And so as we go into '26, it's more of the same, continue to focus on getting new rewards, new retailers and also partnering with other loyalty programs that are outside of our space as well, working on launching that in the beginning part of this year. So again, early days, but we are very pleased with where we are so far.

因此，進入 2026 年，情況依然如此，我們將繼續專注於獲得新的獎勵、新的零售商，並與我們領域之外的其他忠誠度計劃合作，爭取在今年年初推出這些計劃。所以，現在還處於早期階段，但我們對目前的成果非常滿意。

Michael Griffin, Evercore ISI.

Michael Griffin，Evercore ISI。

Appreciate all the color so far. Just wondering if you can give some insights maybe into your thoughts around tenant credit or bad debt as it looks at the year ahead. I know there's been some news recently around retailer bankruptcies, but just maybe give us a sense where your head is at from expectations from a tenant credit perspective? Is it better or worse, the same than last year? Anything about that would be helpful.

很喜歡目前為止的所有色彩。想問您能否就租戶信用或壞帳方面，展望未來一年，分享一些您的見解。我知道最近有一些關於零售商破產的新聞，但能否請您從租戶信用角度談談您的預期？比去年好還是去年差，還是和去年一樣？任何相關資訊將不勝感激。

Sure. Yeah. Look, I think the tariffs are clearly having an effect on retailers. So it is definitely putting more pressure on them. And it's not the big guys. I think I mentioned to you this on our last call. I mean it's really it's really -- if you put Costco and Walmart and of course, Amazon aside, and then you have the rest of us, okay? And the rest of us are feeling the pinch. And so it's something that when we had our call last year, obviously, we weren't dealing with.

當然。是的。我認為關稅顯然對零售商產生了影響。所以這無疑會給他們帶來更大的壓力。而且不是那些大公司。我想我上次通話時跟你提過這件事。我的意思是，如果把 Costco、沃爾瑪，當然還有亞馬遜都排除在外，剩下的就是我們其他人了，好嗎？而我們其他人則都感受到了經濟壓力。所以，很顯然，去年我們開會討論這個問題的時候，我們還沒有遇到這種情況。

Retailers dealt with it successfully this year, but kind of -- the full impact will really be '26 because it was implemented who knows in April, I guess. We're still waiting for the Supreme Court to rule which could be a small victory for our clients, but no one really knows. I don't know what market, where the odds are. Actually, let's be an interesting time, while we're here, you can find out what market says about Supreme spring. So they have to deal with it. And it's -- we see it from a catalyst point of view. And I mean, it's going to take a couple of hundred million dollars of EBITDA away from catalysts to pay together.

零售商今年成功應對了這個問題，但某種程度上——其全部影響要到 2026 年才會真正顯現，因為誰知道呢，大概是四月實施的吧。我們仍在等待最高法院的裁決，這對我們的客戶來說可能是一個小小的勝利，但誰也說不準。我不知道是哪個市場，賠率在哪裡。事實上，讓我們來做一件有趣的事吧，趁我們在這裡，您可以了解市場對Supreme春季系列的看法。所以他們必須面對這個問題。而我們——從催化劑的角度來看。我的意思是，要支付這些費用，需要從催化劑中抽走數億美元的 EBITDA。

I mean if you cut through it all because I think Catalyst rightfully so is very focused on doing the best they cannot pass it on the consumer. So it is a real issue and the retailers that we speak to are managing it the best they can. But it is a headwind, and long story short. It's probably put more pressure on retailers than should be, and it's going to end up hurting the small guys. So we're a little more cautious. We gave you our range that was, frankly, we didn't have some bankruptcies in there that surfaced at the beginning of '26 that we felt comfortable to keep the range.

我的意思是，如果你仔細分析所有因素，因為我認為 Catalyst 理所當然地非常專注於做到最好，他們無法將這些成本轉嫁給消費者。所以這的確是個問題，我們接觸過的零售商都在盡力妥善處理。但這確實是逆風，長話短說。這可能給零售商帶來了過大的壓力，最終會損害小商家的利益。所以我們更加謹慎一些。坦白說，我們當時提供的系列產品中並沒有出現一些在 2026 年初出現的破產案例，所以我們覺得可以放心地保留這些產品。

We do our budgets, we finish basically mid-December. So that budget was essentially fixed. We didn't back off it because what Eli mentioned to you the retail demand. But they'll probably be a little bit more. And I would say most of it, if I had to cut to the chase is tariff pressure, which is unfortunate.

我們編制預算，基本上在十二月中旬完成。所以預算基本上是固定的。我們沒有放棄，因為正如 Eli 向你提到的，零售需求仍然存在。但可能還會更多。如果非要我直言，我會說大部分原因是關稅壓力，這很不幸。

I hope that answers your question.

希望我的回答能解答你的疑問。

Michael Goldsmith, UBS.

瑞銀集團的麥可‧戈德史密斯。

We heard a lot about investment and redevelopment from Eli. So maybe can you frame how much incremental NOI or FFO we should expect this year from projects stabilizing either late in 2025 or in 2026?

我們從伊萊那裡聽到了很多關於投資和重建的事情。那麼，您能否估算一下，對於在 2025 年末或 2026 年穩定下來的項目，我們今年應該預期新增多少淨營業收入 (NOI) 或營運資金 (FFO)？

Michael, it's Brian. I think you should expect about a $30 million contribution in '26 from projects that are going to be complete.

邁克爾，我是布萊恩。我認為，到 2026 年，即將完工的項目應該會帶來約 3,000 萬美元的收益。

Alexander Goldfarb, Piper Sandler.

Alexander Goldfarb，Piper Sandler。

Hey, hold on. 25% to 32% in favor of policy.

等等。支持這項政策的比例是25%到32%。

If it does, it's going to be an interesting opinion. David, just going to your point on the question on the guidance set in December, even though that was ahead of Saks and Eddie Bauer, but you still feel pretty good. As you look at the business, you guys have -- there's Simon Brand Ventures, there's parking revenue. I mean there's all these other ancillary revenue sources.

如果真是這樣，那將會是一個很有趣的觀點。David，關於你提到的 12 月制定的業績指引問題，雖然當時 Saks 和 Eddie Bauer 的業績都比你預期的要好，但你仍然感覺相當不錯。你們從業務角度來看，有西蒙品牌創投公司，還有停車收入。我的意思是，還有其他很多輔助收入來源。

So is your view that as presumably the economy grows, all these other revenue levers that you guys have will kick in and be more than sufficient to offset whatever potential tariff disruption that you outlined? Or just how are you thinking about that? Because on one hand, the tariff thing sounds like there's going to be more ripple effects this year as the full year is felt. But the same token, presumably the economy accelerates, you guys have more revenue levers that should come into play and help drive earnings up.

所以你的觀點是，隨著經濟的成長，你們擁有的所有其他收入手段都將發揮作用，足以抵消你所描述的任何潛在的關稅衝擊？或者，你對此有何看法？一方面，關稅問題似乎會在今年產生更大的連鎖反應，影響將持續到全年。但同樣地，如果經濟加速成長，你們將有更多的收入來源，這些來源應該能夠發揮作用，幫助提高獲利。

Yeah. Listen, I agree 1,000% of your thesis we are seeing -- the most important thing is traffic is up, sales were up. The retailers that don't make it even though I can see blind tariffs, they're not highly productive retailers. And given that it's our view that we can replace it with more productive retailers or higher rents and take what's going on in Saks as a simple example. We had a number of Pop Fit stores, and it will be like the Forever 21, even though we don't have all of Forever 21 lease, we are already way ahead of the income for that, and we have upside of another 20, 30 boxes to lease.

是的。聽著，我百分之百同意你的觀點，我們看到的──最重要的是流量上升了，銷售額也上升了。即使我能看出有盲目關稅，但那些仍然無法獲利的零售商，他們的生產效率並不高。鑑於我們認為可以用更有效率的零售商或更高的租金來取代它，以薩克斯百貨的現狀為例。我們之前有很多 Pop Fit 門市，它會像 Forever 21 一樣，雖然我們沒有租下 Forever 21 的所有店面，但我們的收入已經遠遠超過了 Forever 21 的預期，而且我們還有 20 到 30 個店面可以出租。

So Saks, our fifth total was paying us around $18 million. We think half the portfolio will pay us third -- and Eli said that I remember the numbers, right? So -- and then we'll -- and those are deals that we feel highly confident on. And then we have the other boxes that we'll generate, so we're not replacing -- we're replacing fifth and Saks in the sense the productivity and the rents are just so cheap that there's a tremendous amount of upside. And it takes time, right?

所以，薩克斯第五家公司支付給我們的總金額約 1,800 萬美元。我們認為投資組合中有一半會為我們帶來第三名的收益——伊萊說我還記得這些數字，對吧？所以——然後我們會——這些都是我們非常有信心的交易。然後我們也會創造其他的店鋪，所以我們不是在取代——我們是在取代第五大道和薩克斯大道，因為那裡的生產力和租金都非常低，所以有很大的發展空間。這需要時間，對吧？

But -- and most of that will all be back end weighted because your GLV sales, and I will be done, who knows, in the spring sometime, we get the space back. Maybe there's a few that we can get in the fourth quarter, but most of it will show up in '27. So the media sales, tenant demand, traffic is all moving in the right direction. And I like you, I mean, we're bullish on the economy. It's just that the tariffs are -- it's never going to be all systems go. We still see it a little bit on the sales.

但是——而且大部分都將是後端加權的，因為你的 GLV 銷售額，以及我將完成的事情，誰知道呢，在春季的某個時候，我們就能重新獲得空間。或許第四季能得到一些，但大部分會在 2027 年出現。因此，媒體銷售、租戶需求、客流量都在朝著正確的方向發展。我也喜歡你，我的意思是，我們對經濟前景持樂觀態度。只是關稅問題——一切永遠不會完全恢復正常。我們在銷售中仍然能看到一些這種情況。

We had a good bounce back on the border, the north border, Canadians are really pissed off. So they're not going anywhere in the US. So we're seeing kind of the north border, a little weaker than the South border. We also, interestingly, and that saw a little bit of sales disruption in certain markets where we're a lot of ICE activity, which was interesting. But again, tariffs are a headwind, but there's a lot of positive aspects of what's going on.

我們在邊境，特別是北部邊境，採取了強硬措施，加拿大人對此非常憤怒。所以他們不會離開美國。所以我們看到北部邊境的防禦力度比南部邊境弱一些。有趣的是，在某些我們進行了許多內燃機業務的市場，我們的銷售也出現了一些中斷，這很有趣。但關稅仍然是一個不利因素，但目前的情況也有很多正面的方面。

And most importantly, we're making the properties better, the Simons we'll see some benefits in '26. And as an example, Alex, we just spoke to Chanel in Boca Town Center off to a really good start. And that's -- to make that kind of -- with that kind of retailer who's the best of the very best is just creates so much momentum elsewhere. So in that sense, we're very bullish.

最重要的是，我們正在改善房產狀況，西蒙斯家族將在 2026 年看到一些好處。舉個例子，Alex，我們剛才在博卡鎮中心和Chanel聊得很愉快，開局非常順利。而與這種頂尖零售商合作，就能在其他地方產生巨大的推動作用。所以從這個意義上講，我們非常看好它。

Craig Mailman, Citi.

克雷格‧梅爾曼，花旗銀行。

Just to follow up on the leasing. The pace of leasing has been pretty consistent here and strong. I'm just kind of curious the tenor of the conversations maybe as you're talking to retailers and their demand and appetite to go into Class A and what they're willing to pay for that versus maybe what a same tenant or vertical would be willing to pay for space in Class B. Just kind of curious what the appetite looks like there and the pricing for that.

跟進一下租賃事宜。這裡的租賃速度一直相當穩定且強勁。我只是有點好奇，在與零售商交談時，他們的談話基調是什麼，例如他們對A級辦公室的需求和意願，以及他們願意為此支付的價格，再對比一下同樣的租戶或行業願意為B級辦公室空間支付的價格。我只是好奇市場對A級辦公室的需求以及定價狀況。

Yeah. Well, we don't -- I mean, pricing is it's just so space market asset driven. It's -- there is -- hopefully, AI will solve it for us, so we don't have to negotiate, I'll just say. Here is the rent that the tenant and the landlord should agree on. And then we can -- I don't know what we do, but we can use that.

是的。嗯，我們不——我的意思是，定價完全是由太空市場資產驅動的。希望人工智慧能夠幫我們解決這個問題，這樣我們就不用談判了，我只能這麼說。以下是房客和房東應該商定的租金金額。然後我們就可以——我不知道具體該怎麼做，但我們可以利用這一點。

So I can't really tell you. I mean, obviously, A assets have higher demand, but we're making a lot of progress in the Bs. And we really talk about pricing power. We really talk about you can't force a deal. So it's -- the tenant has to agree, we have to agree, and it's a negotiation -- and I would say how many leases did we do last year, guys.

所以我真的沒辦法告訴你。我的意思是，很顯然，A級資產的需求更高，但我們在B級資產方面也取得了很大進展。我們確實在討論定價權。我們常談到，你不能強迫別人達成交易。所以，租戶必須同意，我們也必須同意，這是一場談判——我想問大家，我們去年簽了多少租約。

4,600.

4,600。

No, no by square feet .

不，不是按平方英尺計算的。。

17 million.

1700萬。

17 million. Strangely enough, we figured out how to make deals on 17 million square feet, okay? So it's more of an art than a science, maybe maybe I can make it more of a science, but again, it's not pricing power, just what's the right deal for both of us.

1700萬。奇怪的是，我們居然找到了達成 1700 萬平方英尺交易的方法，好嗎？所以這與其說是一門科學，不如說是一門藝術。也許我可以把它變得更像一門科學，但再說一遍，這不是定價權的問題，而是對我們雙方來說最合適的交易。

I'm mean, I guess, is it getting easier to lease Class B versus maybe 12 months ago?

我的意思是，現在租賃B級房車是不是比12個月前更容易了？

I think that's a safe statement. And again, if you look at Southdale Mall, a year or two years ago, we would say -- this was a see (inaudible), okay? And now we've made it an A. So part of our job is to enhance the quality. And we're -- we don't discriminate on what we're trying to achieve.

我認為這個說法比較穩健。再說一遍，如果你看看一兩年前的 Southdal​​e 購物中心，我們會說——這簡直是（聽不清楚），好嗎？現在我們已經把它評為A級了。所以，提高品質是我們工作的一部分。而且我們——我們對想要達成的目標不加區別。

What we're trying to achieve is make -- if it's in Midland, Texas, by the way, I hope you watch Landman because that's in been to Odessa and Midland, which, of course, I have been a few times. And you really -- it's really -- you really get the feel for. But our job is the Midland, Texas, which does -- used to have a lot of volatility of the oil price, less so today. But to make that the best it can be, at the same time, trying to make sure the best it can be. And that's one of the hallmarks of our company in that we can do that.

我們正在努力實現的是——順便說一句，如果它在德克薩斯州米德蘭，我希望你關注 Landman，因為那是我去過敖德薩和米德蘭的地方，當然，我去過那裡好幾次了。而且你真的——真的——你真的能感受到。但我們的工作地點在德州米德蘭，過去油價波動很大，現在波動性也小了很多。但要做到最好，同時也要確保做到最好。而這正是我們公司的標誌性特點之一，因為我們能夠做到這一點。

And it just takes a lot of focus and a lot of energy to do that. But at the same time, we can build an outlet like we did in in Indonesia, right? Very few companies can build in Indonesia and then build a new outlet in Oklahoma, okay? So that's just what we're about.

而做到這一點需要高度集中註意力和大量的精力。但同時，我們也可以像在印尼那樣建立一個銷售點，對吧？很少公司能在印尼建廠，然後再在俄克拉荷馬州建新廠，懂嗎？這就是我們所做的事情。

Greg McGinniss, Scotiabank.

格雷格·麥金尼斯，加拿大豐業銀行。

Normally, this question doesn't fall so deep into the question queue, but I think someone needs to ask. So Brian, how should we think about the factors that could drive Simon to the higher or lower end of the FFO per share guidance range, especially considering that you're already absorbing some additional unexpected bankruptcies versus the December budgeting process?

通常情況下，這個問題不會排在問題隊列的後面，但我認為有必要有人問一下。那麼布萊恩，我們該如何看待可能導致西蒙公司每股FFO預期範圍偏高或偏低的因素呢？特別是考慮到與12月份的預算編制過程相比，你們已經承受了一些額外的意外破產？

Greg, I think the way to think about it is very similar to how we run our business. We start beginning the year very conservatively and build throughout the year. I think we touched upon a variety of the potential inputs that will drive the outperformance. Certainly, our ancillary businesses, our leasing business, sales, certainly, we've done.

格雷格，我認為思考這個問題的方式與我們經營業務的方式非常相似。我們年初採取非常保守的策略，然後隨著時間的推移逐步推進。我認為我們已經探討了各種可能推動績效優異的潛在因素。當然，我們的輔助業務，例如租賃業務和銷售，我們都做到了。

Yeah, I would just -- sales to me, could be significant upside. We because you probably know we budget ourselves flat-ish. And so we hit 3% growth, I would hope to be our asset. And to me, we'll have bankruptcies will tenants will be delayed, that kind of stuff. But if we get the tenant sales growth that we hope to get, no, then we'll do better. And I would -- I don't anticipate doing worse than our range.

是的，對我來說，銷售額可能會有很大的成長空間。我們之所以這樣做，是因為您可能知道，我們的預算比較均衡。因此，我們實現了 3% 的成長，我希望這能成為我們的資產。對我來說，這會導致破產、租戶拖欠房租等等問題。但如果我們能實現預期的租戶銷售成長，那麼情況就會好得多。而且我預計——我不會比我們的預期表現更差。

Vince Tibone, Green Street.

文斯·蒂博內，格林街。

I got one more on guidance. Can you just discuss the level of domestic property NOI guidance included in '26 FFO? And then also, if you could just help quantify '25 is a bigger acquisition year than the recent past? Like how much did '25 completed acquisitions benefit or contribute to domestic property NOI in '26?

我還有一份關於指導方面的報告。您能否討論一下「26 FFO」中包含的國內物業淨營業收入指導水準？另外，您能否幫忙量化一下，2025 年的收購規模是否比過去幾年更大？2025 年完成的收購對 2026 年的國內房地產淨營業收入 (NOI) 產生了多大影響？

We're projecting 3% comp NOI growth. The Taubman really is a 27 story because of -- you'll see an announcement from us tomorrow or the next day on some transformations of three properties that now that we've got our hands on. We also have the integration, which is a '26 story. So it's -- we obviously issued units as well, and we haven't quarterized that, which is our intent. People made fun of that name but that's legit use of our work. So we really haven't done much of that yet. So we'll be prudent about that. That's not really in the guidance. And the other deals helped a few sets, but they're all early days. Couple we're pretty small, but all over time will contribute to our growth.

我們預期同店淨營業收入成長3%。陶布曼大廈實際上是 27 層，因為——明天或後天你們會看到我們發布的公告，內容是關於我們現在已經接手的三個房產的一些改造。我們還有整合，這是一個「26」的故事。所以——我們顯然也發放了單位，而且我們還沒有將其四分之一化，這正是我們的意圖。人們嘲笑這個名字，但這卻是對我們作品的合法運用。所以我們在這方面其實還沒做太多。所以我們會謹慎行事。指南裡並沒有明確提到這一點。其他交易對一些球隊有所幫助，但現在一切都還處於早期階段。我們這對夫婦規模很小，但隨著時間的推移，他們都將為我們的發展做出貢獻。

That makes sense. That's really helpful. If I can maybe squeeze in a quick follow-up. I think, Brian, you mentioned earlier I think, $30 million of NOI coming online from redevelopment this year. Is that a net figure, like adjusting for any NOI that's going to be taken offline like some of the Taubman projects you just discussed? Or -- should we model more NOI coming offline than the 30, if you follow me?

這很有道理。這真的很有幫助。如果我能擠出時間快速跟進的話。布萊恩，我想，你之前好像提到過，今年重建計畫將帶來 3,000 萬美元的淨營業收入。這是淨額嗎？例如，是否已經扣除了像你剛才提到的陶布曼計畫那樣即將停產的淨營業收入？或者——我們是否應該模擬比 30 個 NOI 更多的 NOI 下線，你明白我的意思嗎？

It wasn't a net number, no. It was basically our deliveries, the expected yield, there's some timing elements to it as well.

這不是淨額，不是的。基本上就是我們的交付量、預期產量，還有一些時間因素。

Most of what we're doing, again, is back-end weighted. So that's just, yes, let's verify that number. But that's just a more back end weighted and not the full an NII net initial yield to those properties, those redevelopments. Again, give you examples. And our opening best case fourth quarter, right, best case fourth quarter mission, best case fourth quarter. And I can go down the line, but most of all of that is very, very limited back-end weighted Q4 openings

我們所做的大部分工作，再次強調，都是後端專注的工作。所以，是的，我們來核實一下這個數字。但這只是更著重於後端收益的收益，而不是這些房產、這些重建項目的全部淨初始收益 (NII)。請再舉些例子。而我們第四季的最佳開局，對吧，第四季的最佳開局任務，第四季的最佳開局。我可以繼續往下說，但大部分都是非常非常有限的、以第四季為重點的後端加權開局。

Floris Van Dijkum, Ladenburg.

弗洛里斯·範·迪庫姆，拉登堡。

So quarter rise, I guess, is an appropriate term. So I guess that's another 3 million of shares that you could be buying back. It sounds like which obviously would be accretive. My question is more on your -- as I usually ask about your F&O pipeline and how that is progressing -- and how do you see that trending throughout '26 and into -- as you sign your $17 million of leases. If you can maybe Brian, if you can give a little commentary around that and what percentage of that S&L pipeline is luxury versus your traditional retailers?

所以，我想「季度成長」這個詞用得恰當。所以，我猜你還可以回購另外300萬股股票。聽起來這顯然是有益的。我的問題更多是關於您的——因為我通常會問您的期貨和期權交易渠道以及進展情況——以及您如何看待2026年及以後的發展趨勢——因為您簽署了1700萬美元的租賃協議。布萊恩，如果你方便的話，能否就此做一些評論，並說明一下S&L通路中奢侈品零售商和傳統零售商分別佔多大比例？

Floris, this is Brian. So at year-end, we were about 2.1% of SNO, which is consistent with the prior several years. As you know, we opened in the fourth quarter, vast majority of retailers and then the momentum builds throughout the balance of the year. So we would expect that number to go up, second, third and fourth quarter.

弗洛里斯，這位是布萊恩。因此，到年底，我們約佔 SNO 的 2.1%，這與前幾年的情況一致。如您所知，我們在第四季度開業，絕大多數零售商都已開業，然後這一勢頭將在今年剩餘的時間裡持續增強。因此，我們預計第二、第三和第四季這個數字會上升。

Yeah. I think it's good that, that number -- the way I would look at it is to get to that number being almost stable because that means we're replacing tenants for filling the vacant space, and it's not going down. So there's positive churn in that, which is good. .

是的。我認為這個數字保持穩定是件好事，因為這意味著我們正在不斷招租來填補空置空間，而且這個數字不會下降。所以這其中存在著積極的人員流動，這是好事。。

So let me just make sure I understand. So 210 basis points of SNO is what it was at year-end. What percentage of that is luxury tenants. If you can give a little bit more color on that?

讓我確認一下我理解得是否正確。所以，年底的 SNO 為 210 個基點。其中豪華租戶佔多少比例？能再詳細說說嗎？

Yeah. We don't get into that. But yes, it's not -- it's not happening, right? They're very selective. They're very focused, but we're we don't really -- it's not anywhere near the majority. It's well less than half. But it's not the size it's the quality. So that's how you have to look at you can add South Dale is a great example. South Dale, again, is probably 1.4 million square feet, 1.3 million, huge number. It's got all sorts of funky basement, the third level space, put all that aside.

是的。我們不討論這個問題。但是，是的，這並沒有發生——這不會發生，對吧？他們非常挑剔。他們非常專注，但我們並不真正——這遠遠不是大多數。遠不到一半。但重要的不是尺寸，而是品質。所以你應該這樣看待這個問題，南戴爾就是一個很好的例子。南戴爾的面積可能達到 140 萬平方英尺，也可能達到 130 萬平方英尺，這是一個龐大的數字。先不說它那奇奇怪怪的地下室和三樓空間。

What transformed South Dale was essentially 70,000 square feet of high-end leasing. So it's the -- it's the quality, not the quantity. So that's what we should focus on. It's not all they're going to do 500,000 square feet of luxury is. If you can add 20,000, 30,000, 40,000 in the right markets, it makes a real difference. And that's what you should look out for. It's not the actual amount of the SNO.

真正改變南戴爾的，是7萬平方英尺的高端租賃物業。所以關鍵在於質量，而不是數量。所以這才是我們該關注的重點。他們要做的不僅僅是50萬平方英尺的豪華建築。如果能在合適的市場增加 2 萬、3 萬、4 萬人，就能產生真正的效果。這就是你應該注意的地方。這不是雪碧的實際數量。

And David, that's very helpful, by the way. But are there any more Southdales expected in the pipeline?

順便說一句，大衛，這很有幫助。但是，未來還會有更多像 Southdal​​e 這樣的項目嗎？

Yeah. Yeah. Eli is going to announce something tomorrow or the next month maybe, haven't proved out. Yeah, we think we definitely think there's more to do.

是的。是的。Eli可能會在明天或下個月宣布一些事情，目前還沒有定論。是的，我們認為肯定還有更多的事情要做。

Omotayo Okusanya, Deutsche Bank.

Omotayo Okusanya，德意志銀行。

Just curious about deal flow, $2 billion of activity in 2025 was pretty good. Just curious, as you're looking globally what you're seeing out there and how we should kind of be thinking about that in '26?

只是好奇交易狀況，2025 年 20 億美元的交易額相當不錯。我只是好奇，當您在全球範圍內觀察時，看到了什麼？我們到了 2026 年該如何看待這些問題？

Yeah, I mean, listen, we always look, but we have a very high bar, right? The best way to think about it is it has to be something that is brand accretive to our portfolio. It's something that we can add our expertise, whether it's leasing, densification, property management, running it better and it has to be at the right price. And so last year, we were able to find a few of those transactions that we're very excited about. And are off to a good start. And if there are more of those, great. And if not, we'll continue to reinvest into our existing portfolio, which we're earning great yields and obviously had a big growing shadow pipeline behind that.

是的，我的意思是，聽著，我們一直在尋找合適的人選，但我們的標準非常高，對吧？最好的思考方式是，它必須是能夠提升我們品牌價值的產品。我們可以貢獻我們的專業知識，無論是租賃、密度提升、物業管理，還是更好地運營，價格也必須合適。因此，去年我們找到了一些讓我們非常興奮的交易。而且開局不錯。如果這樣的機會更多，那就太好了。如果不行，我們將繼續投資於我們現有的投資組合，該投資組合收益豐厚，而且顯然背後還有大量不斷增長的潛在投資項目。

Yeah. I think with our new development in South Nashville, and all the redevelopment mixed-use pipeline, the bar to buy something for us is it is you don't have to be an Olympic high jumper, but you got to have more hops in the world, okay? So -- and why I'm saying this is because we are really excited about our redevelopment pipeline. It's not a capital question. It's just then I would say we're going to take just, pops into my head.

是的。我認為，隨著我們在南納什維爾的新開發項目以及所有重建混合用途項目，對我們來說，購買房產的門檻是：你不必是奧運會跳高運動員，但你必須比世界上任何人都更有魄力，好嗎？我之所以這麼說，是因為我們對我們的重建計劃感到非常興奮。這不是資本問題。就在這時，我想說，我們要採取的行動，突然出現在我的腦海裡。

But take Boca as an example. We finally won the litigation, we were able to buy the building from Seritage, and that development in and of itself could be $500 million. . And that's just one example that pops in in my head, but we have the same thing in Fashion Valley in San Diego, taking the penny building and creating mixed-use and more retail space. So that -- and then we've got the new development in ESCO, which could be $500 million. So what their extension of extension of Toronato.

但以博卡青年隊為例。我們最終贏得了訴訟，從 Seritage 手中買下了這棟大樓，而這本身的開發案就可能價值 5 億美元。。這只是我腦中突然冒出的一個例子，聖地牙哥的時尚谷也有同樣的情況，他們利用一分錢的建築，創造出混合用途和更多的零售空間。所以——然後我們還有 ESCO 的新開發項目，可能價值 5 億美元。所以他們對多倫多地區的擴展是什麼？

Deseart Hills.

沙漠山丘。

Desert Hills. So these things are very exciting to us. And so we've got to be -- we have to have similar excitement if we buy some. And that similar excitement has to then be grounded by what Eli said, which is -- does it fit with our portfolio, can we add value? What's the game plan? I don't think the one that we bought that we've taken over leasing, we got a lot of great stuff in the works there. and an asset that 10 years from now will be worth $3 billion to $4 billion.

沙漠山丘。所以這些事情讓我們非常興奮。所以，如果我們買了一些，就一定要有類似的興奮感。而這種類似的興奮感必須像 Eli 所說的那樣得到檢驗，那就是——它是否符合我們的投資組合，我們能否增加價值？比賽計劃是什麼？我不認為我們收購並接管租賃業務的公司有什麼特別之處，我們在那裡有很多很棒的項目正在進行中。而且，這項資產在10年後將價值30億至40億美元。

Linda Tsai, Jefferies.

Linda Tsai，傑富瑞集團。

Just a follow-up on the redevelopments. When you engage in them, are you relocating retailers within your existing property or drawing new retailers into the market? Or taking share from other assets in the area?

關於重建項目的後續情況。當你進行這些活動時，你是在現有物業內重新安置零售商，還是在吸引新的零售商進入市場？或從該地區的其他資產中分一杯羹？

We are bringing most of the time, you'll always relocate some existing retailers in the existing building. So most of the time, we're bringing new entrants into the market.

大多數情況下，我們會進行搬遷，您總是需要將現有建築物中的一些現有零售商遷址。所以大多數時候，我們都是把新進者引進市場。

And then just on occupancy for '26 versus '25, how are you thinking about that? And does it vary at all across different formats, premium outlets, malls, mills?

那麼，就 2026 年與 2025 年的入住率而言，您怎麼看？不同業態（例如高級奧特萊斯、購物中心、工廠店）之間是否有差異？

Linda, we do expect that there is some upward opportunity in our occupancy for the year across the platforms.

琳達，我們預計今年各平台的入住率都會有一些上升空間。

Mike Mueller, JPMorgan.

麥克·穆勒，摩根大通。

Can you talk a little bit about the institutional appetite for higher productivity malls. For example, are your JV partners looking to invest more with you? Or are we more likely to see you buy them out?

您能否談談機構對高生產力購物中心的需求？例如，您的合資夥伴是否希望與您進行更多投資？或者我們更有可能看到你把它們全部收購？

It's really -- we don't have a lot, to be honest. And what I've noticed it's really partner by partner. And a lot of it depends on how long they held the asset, what's going on in real estate investments, et cetera. So it's hard for me to say it's really one way or another. But there's not a rush to get out. And I would say, it's not a rush to get in. And if I had to to make it -- if I had to make a simplistic statement, which I'm very confident in, that, right, because sentiment, right, it's kind of more status quo.

說實話，我們真的沒有很多東西。我注意到，這種情況真的是因人而異的。很多因素取決於他們持有資產的時間長短、房地產投資的市場行情等等。所以我很難說結果究竟是哪一種。但並不急著離開。我認為，沒必要急著加入。如果我必須做出一個簡單明了的表態——我對此非常有信心——那就是，沒錯，因為情感，沒錯，這更像是維持現狀。

Handel St. Juste, Mizuho Securities.

Handel St. Juste，瑞穗證券。

I wanted to ask about luxury. I was hoping you could talk a little bit more about what you're seeing and hearing from luxury shoppers and tenants. The upper end consumer has clearly been resilient, but it looks like some of the luxury brands, LVMH, in particular, might be signaling a bit more caution for luxury this year, some of that obviously tied to tariffs, Chinese spending. So I guess I'm curious, what's your view of expectation for leasing demand and sales productivity from that tenant category for this year?

我想問關於奢侈品的問題。我希望您能多談談您從奢侈品消費者和租戶那裡看到和聽到的情況。高端消費者顯然表現出了韌性，但一些奢侈品牌，尤其是 LVMH 集團，似乎今年可能對奢侈品市場更加謹慎，這顯然與關稅和中國消費有關。所以我很好奇，您對今年該租戶類別的租賃需求和銷售業績有何預期？

Sure. I would say, again, it's so dependent upon the company and then within the company, the brand. There are some that are growing. There are some that are still making deals, but a little more cautious. And then there are some that are slightly pulling back. The good news is that the -- what they have all discovered in the -- over the last decade or so is the US is a lot bigger market than they ever thought it could be.

當然。我想再次強調，這很大程度上取決於公司，而在公司內部，則取決於品牌。有些正在增長。有些人仍在進行交易，但態度更加謹慎。還有一些人正在稍微退縮。好消息是，他們在過去十年左右的時間裡都發現，美國市場比他們想像的要大得多。

So in the long run, we're all very much dedicated to be an important player here. Their wholesale business is obviously affected by what's going on with Saks Global. And that could benefit potentially it might not. So I think as they look at their positioning, they're certainly going out and opining on that. And we're optimistic we'll continue to do business with Saks/Nemann that will reorg and it will live a better life with a better balance sheet.

所以從長遠來看，我們都非常致力於成為這裡的重要參與者。他們的批發業務顯然受到了 Saks Global 事件的影響。這可能有利，也可能不利。所以我認為，當他們審視自身定位時，他們肯定會公開表達自己的觀點。我們樂觀地認為，我們將繼續與 Saks/Nemann 開展業務，該公司將進行重組，並擁有更好的資產負債表，從而擁有更好的發展前景。

I'd say generally, it's steady as she goes. Some growing, some peeling the onion and a lot of them just stable. And the great thing about these brands they make long-term decisions. They're really investing in the brand and the really best in the stores. And they don't -- they do it over almost a little bit like us, they do it over a little bit longer horizon than quarter to quarter, year to year. And we really like being aligned with those kind of high-quality retailers.

總的來說，我覺得她表現得很穩定。有些在生長，有些在剝洋蔥皮，還有很多只是保持穩定。這些品牌最棒的一點就是它們會做出長遠的決策。他們確實在品牌建設上投入巨資，而且店內商品都是最好的。他們的做法和我們有些不同——他們的周期比我們更長，不是按季度或按年計算，而是按更長的時間跨度計算。我們非常樂意與這類高品質零售商合作。

Juan Sanabria, BMO Capital Markets.

Juan Sanabria，BMO 資本市場。

Just first, a quick follow-up. I think you mentioned that pipeline, the leasing pipeline was up 15% year over year. So just curious if that number was benefiting from and if so, with the kind of apples-to-apples number is. But then just the broader question is just on these anchor boxes, how should we think about the potential capital investments for Saks and Nemanns as those come back to you over time? And kind of what you think the -- like the top 5, let say, most likely uses are for those boxes across the portfolio?

首先，快速跟進一下。我想你有提到租賃專案儲備，租賃專案儲備年增了 15%。所以我只是好奇這個數字是否受益於此，如果是的話，那麼它與同類數字相比如何。但更廣泛的問題是，就這些錨定箱而言，隨著時間的推移，當 Saks 和 Nemanns 的潛在資本投資回到我們手中時，我們應該如何看待這些投資？那麼，您認為這些盒子在整個產品組合中最有可能的五種用途是什麼？

Well, yeah, the 15% is like-for-like essentially because remember, we literally just took over Taubman leasing two days ago. It feels like so that's like-for-like. I mentioned earlier the upside that we see in all fifth. So we'll see a positive impact from both the tenant mix and the cash flow over time. And then the other I don't think we're going to have that dramatic of an impact, but it's early days there.

是的，15% 的漲幅基本上是按同類比較計算的，因為別忘了，我們兩天前才剛接管 Taubman 租賃業務。感覺就像是同類產品一樣。我之前提到過，我們看到的第五種優勢。因此，隨著時間的推移，租戶組合和現金流都將產生正面影響。至於另一件事，我認為我們不會產生那麼大的影響，但現在下結論還為時過早。

And then if we get boxes back, we'll do what we've been doing with dealing with all the Sears vacancies, the boxes we got back from penny when they filed. I mean the one thing we're very capable of is remanaging the real estate and the boxes. And at the end of the day, it gives us the opportunity to redo the real estate, which is kind of what started with South Dale or how big is South Dale?

然後，如果我們能找回這些箱子，我們就會像處理西爾斯百貨公司所有空置的箱子一樣，處理我們從佩妮百貨公司申請時找回的那些箱子。我的意思是，我們最擅長的就是重新管理房地產和倉庫。歸根究底，這給了我們重新規劃房地產的機會，而這正是 South Dale 的初衷，或者說 South Dale 到底有多大？

[123]

[123]

123? I only have 200 -- how many properties do I have now?

123？我只有200處房產──我現在有多少房產？

254.

254.

So I only have 254, but somehow I remember it's South Dale, right? South Dale sale an example, that whole redevelopment was spurred by, I believe it's going out of the business. So -- and then we've got the PennyMac, and that's where we put lifetime. There's lifetime deals to do. There's house of sports deals to do. There's mixed use to do. There's outdoor additions to do. So it really runs the spectrum. And we'll see where it goes. I mean we don't know yet. So it's early days. My guess is we'll have a better feel for next --

所以我只有 254 個，但我總覺得是南戴爾，對吧？以 South Dale 的出售為例，我認為整個重建計劃的推動原因是該公司即將倒閉。所以——然後我們還有 PennyMac，我們把終身保障放在那裡。有很多千載難逢的機會。還有一些體育相關的交易要做。可進行混合用途。還有一些戶外設施需要擴建。所以它涵蓋的範圍非常廣泛。我們拭目以待。我的意思是，我們現在還不知道。現在還為時過早。我猜我們對下一次會有更清晰的認識。--

Rich Hightower, Barclays.

Rich Hightower，巴克萊銀行。

Just a small clarifying question on Saks and then a separate question from that, if I may. I think it was reported that Simon's got a $100 million investment in that entity as well. And so just help us understand what happens that and how that investment might, in some way, control the outcome to whatever extent?

關於 Saks 百貨，我有一個小小的疑問需要澄清，如果可以的話，我還有一個相關的問題。我記得有報導稱，西蒙在那家公司也投資了1億美元。所以，請您幫我們理解一下，在這種情況下會發生什麼，以及這項投資在某種程度上會如何影響結果？

And then my second question is just updated thoughts, if you have any on the exchangeable euro debt that comes due later this year and the potentiality of putting Klepierre shares to the debt holders there, what the math looks like there?

我的第二個問題是關於今年稍後到期的可兌換歐元債務，以及將 Klepierre 股票出售給這些債務持有人的可能性，您有什麼最新的想法嗎？這方面的計算結果如何？

Sure. So let me answer the second first. We have gotten some redemption notices and we've been issuing shares. Brian wants to pull the number --

當然。那我先回答第二個問題。我們收到了一些贖回通知，並且一直在發行股票。布萊恩想抽出那個號碼--

1.5 million shares.

150萬股。

So we've issued 1.5 million shares to satisfy the bond when we get it put. So that's what's happened. To your first question, is we did a transaction with Saks Global as part of their funding for buying Neiman Marcus. Now as part of that, we decided we were just going to make that investment unless we got compensated for it. So in case it blew up, we would be home.

因此，我們發行了 150 萬股股票，以便在債券發行時償還債券。事情就是這樣。關於你的第一個問題，我們是否與 Saks Global 進行了一筆交易，作為他們收購 Neiman Marcus 的資金的一部分？因此，我們決定，除非得到補償，否則我們不會進行這項投資。所以萬一發生爆炸，我們也能待在家裡。

And so we got the right to terminate two leases. We got two buildings. And very importantly, and I'm sure you're familiar with REAs. But throughout the whole entire portfolio with Saks and Neiman, and Alfit, we got the right to build what we want, so we don't have to go hit their approval. In addition, we got the right to take that investment and convert it into a company that's being run by authentic brands group that owns the IP not e-commerce, not stores, but owns the IP for Saks, Neiman, Bergdorf.

因此，我們獲得了終止兩份租賃合約的權利。我們拿到了兩棟大樓。非常重要的一點是，我相信你對REA（房地產評估）很熟悉。但是，在與 Saks、Neiman 和 Alfit 的整個合作項目中，我們有權打造我們想要的產品，所以我們不必去徵求他們的同意。此外，我們有權將這筆投資轉化為由擁有智慧財產權的正宗品牌集團經營的公司，該集團擁有 Saks、Neiman 和 Bergdorf 等品牌的智慧財產權，而不是電子商務或實體店的智慧財產權。

So at the end of the day, we felt like we made a good trade. With that said, we've written off our investment at the end of the fourth quarter. But again, we've got the right to build, which can keep you from doing what you want already for years and years. We've got two buildings. We got the right to terminate two leases if they monetary to fall, which they are. And then the upside is we own the IP. So we're -- in my personal belief we're ahead of the game, but we went ahead and roll off or invest.

所以最終，我們覺得這筆交易很划算。也就是說，我們在第四季末已經註銷了這筆投資。但是，我們擁有建設的權利，這可能會讓你在很多年裡都無法做你想做的事情。我們有兩棟。如果租金下跌，我們有權終止兩份租約，而租金確實下跌了。好處是我們擁有智慧財產權。所以——就我個人而言，我認為我們領先一步，但我們還是決定退出或進行投資。

Ronald Kamdem, Morgan Stanley.

羅納德‧卡姆登，摩根士丹利。

I just had a quick one, putting some of the stuff that came up in the call earlier. Just going back to the domestic property NOI assumptions for this year versus last year, just talking through for the occupancy, the releasing spreads, the bad debt, just putting it all together, high compare versus last year would be helpful. .

我剛才快速地整理了一下，把之前通話中提到的一些事情整理了一下。回到今年與去年相比的國內房地產淨營業收入假設，討論一下入住率、釋放價差、壞賬，把所有因素綜合起來，與去年相比較高的比較值會很有幫助。。

Ron, it's Brian. I think if you look, we've now said at least 3% domestic NOI for about four years. Ultimately, it's going to all of the things that we've talked about on this call that will drive the performance of the domestic store NOI above where we have a guided to. Ultimately, it's going to be the upside from occupancy upside for leasing and a variety of other types of the business contribute as it has this year and the past several years.

羅恩，我是布萊恩。我認為，如果你仔細觀察，我們已經連續四年維持至少 3% 的國內淨營業收入。最終，我們在這次電話會議中討論的所有因素都將推動國內門市淨營業收入 (NOI) 達到我們預期的目標以上。最終，租賃入住率的提高以及其他各種類型的業務都會像今年和過去幾年一樣帶來成長。

All right. Thank you, everybody. Very good questions. And we will talk to you soon. And Brian and Tom always welcome your thoughts and insight.

好的。謝謝大家。問得非常好的問題。我們很快會再聯絡你。Brian 和 Tom 也一直非常歡迎您的想法和見解。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your participation. This concludes today's conference. You may disconnect your lines, and have a wonderful day.

女士們、先生們，感謝各位的參與。今天的會議到此結束。您可以斷開線路了，祝您有美好的一天。