西蒙地產 (SPG) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Simon Property Group first quarter 2025 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce Tom Ward, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations.

您好，歡迎參加西蒙地產集團 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。此時，所有參與者都處於只聽模式。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。現在我很高興介紹投資者關係高級副總裁湯姆沃德 (Tom Ward)。

Thank you, Joe, and thank you for joining us this evening. Presenting on today's call are David Simon, Chairman, Chief Executive Officer, and President; and Brian McDade, Chief Financial Officer. A quick reminder that statements made during this call may be forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, and actual results may differ materially due to a variety of risks, uncertainties, and other factors.

謝謝你，喬，謝謝你今晚加入我們。出席今天電話會議的有董事長、執行長兼總裁 David Simon 和財務長 Brian McDade。需要快速提醒的是，本次電話會議中所作的陳述可能是 1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法案安全港所定義的前瞻性陳述，實際結果可能因各種風險、不確定性和其他因素而存在重大差異。

We refer you to today's press release and our SEC filings for a detailed discussion of the risk factors related to those forward-looking statements. Please note that this call includes information that may be accurate only as of today's date. Reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures are included in the press release and the supplemental information in today's Form 8-K filing. Both the press release and the supplemental information are available on our IR website at investors.simon.com.

我們請您參閱今天的新聞稿和我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，以詳細討論與這些前瞻性陳述相關的風險因素。請注意，本次通話中包含的資訊可能僅截至今天為止是準確的。新聞稿和今天提交的 8-K 表格中的補充資訊包含了非 GAAP 財務指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的對帳。新聞稿和補充資訊均可在我們的 IR 網站 investors.simon.com 上找到。

Our conference call this evening will be limited to one hour. For those who would like to participate in the question-and-answer session, we ask that you please respect our request to letting yourself to 1 question. I'm pleased to introduce David Simon.

我們今晚的電話會議將限制為一小時。對於想要參加問答環節的人，我們請求您尊重我們的要求，只問 1 個問題。我很高興介紹大衛·西蒙。

Thank you, Tom. Good evening, everyone. We're off to a good start for 2025 with results that exceeded our plan. We completed the acquisition of the mall luxury outlets in Florence and Sanremo, Italy. And opened our first outlet in Jakarta, Indonesia.

謝謝你，湯姆。大家晚上好。2025 年我們有一個好的開端，成果超越了我們的計畫。我們完成了對義大利佛羅倫薩和聖雷莫的購物中心奢侈品店的收購。並在印尼雅加達開設了我們的第一家分店。

We continue to enhance our retail real estate platform through development, redevelopment, and acquisitions. Our A-rated fortress balance sheet with over $10 billion in liquidity sets us apart, and we have the lengthy track record of the adapting our capital allocation and operating strategy to confront and take advantage of diverse macroeconomic cycles.

我們透過開發、再開發和收購不斷加強我們的零售房地產平台。我們擁有 A 級堡壘資產負債表和超過 100 億美元的流動性，這使我們脫穎而出，並且我們在調整資本配置和營運策略以應對和利用不同的宏觀經濟週期方面擁有悠久的記錄。

And now I'm going to turn it over to Brian, who will cover our first quarter results, and we'll take it from there.

現在我將把時間交給 Brian，他將介紹我們的第一季業績，然後我們將從那裡開始。

Thank you, David, and good evening. Real Estate FFO was $2.95 per share in the first quarter compared to $2.91 from prior year. Domestic and international operations had a very good quarter and contributed $0.14 of growth driven by a 5% increase in this income. As anticipated, interest income, land sales and lease settlements were $0.10 lower year-over-year. We signed 1,500 leases for more than 5.1 million square feet in the quarter.

謝謝你，大衛，晚上好。第一季房地產 FFO 為每股 2.95 美元，去年同期為每股 2.91 美元。國內和國際業務本季表現非常好，貢獻了 0.14 美元的成長，這得益於該收入成長了 5%。正如預期的那樣，利息收入、土地銷售和租賃結算年減 0.10 美元。本季我們簽署了 1,500 份租約，總面積超過 510 萬平方英尺。

Approximately 25% of leasing activity for the quarter were new deals and approximately 80% of the leases expiring through 2025 are complete ahead of last year at this point in time. . Malls and premium outlet occupancy at the end of the quarter was 95.9%, an increase of 40 basis points compared to the prior year.

本季約有 25% 的租賃活動為新交易，截至 2025 年的租約中約有 80% 比去年同期提前完成。。本季末，購物中心和高級奧特萊斯入住率為 95.9%，比上年同期成長了 40 個基點。

The mills occupancy was 98.4%, an increase of 70 basis points compared to the prior year. Average base minimum rents for the malls and outlets increased 2.4% year-over-year and the mills increased 3.9%. Mall and premium outlet retailer sales per square foot was $7.33 per foot for the quarter. Occupancy cost at the end of the quarter was 13.1%. Driving domestic NOI, which increased 3.4% year-over-year for the quarter, and portfolio NOI, which includes our international properties at constant currency grew 3.6% for the quarter.

工廠佔用率為98.4%，較上年增加70個基點。購物中心和奧特萊斯的平均最低租金年增 2.4%，工廠的平均最低租金上漲 3.9%。本季購物中心和名牌折扣店每平方英尺的銷售額為 7.33 美元。本季末的入住率為 13.1%。本季度，國內 NOI 年成長 3.4%，而包括我們以固定匯率計算的國際資產在內的投資組合 NOI 則成長了 3.6%。

First quarter funds from operations were $1.0 billion or $2.67 per share compared to $1.33 billion or $3.56 per share last year. As a reminder, the prior year results include $0.81 per share in after-tax net gains, primarily from the sale of the company's remaining ownership interest in ABG.

第一季營運資金為 10 億美元或每股 2.67 美元，而去年同期為 13.3 億美元或每股 3.56 美元。提醒一下，上一年的業績包括每股 0.81 美元的稅後淨收益，主要來自公司出售其在 ABG 的剩餘所有權權益。

First quarter results include a $0.17 per share loss primarily from the noncash unrealized mark-to-market and fair value adjustments on the Klepierre's exchangeable bond. This is offset by a $0.07 gain on the sale of securities. The noncash loss on the derivative is due to the outperformance of Klepierre's stock price, which increased 11% in the first quarter. The first quarter also includes an after-tax loss of $0.05 per share related to Catalyst and restructuring costs.

第一季業績包括每股 0.17 美元的虧損，主要來自 Klepierre 可交換債券的非現金未實現按市價計價和公允價值調整。這被出售證券的 0.07 美元收益所抵消。衍生性商品的非現金損失是由於 Klepierre 股價表現優異，第一季上漲了 11%。第一季還包括與 Catalyst 和重組成本相關的每股 0.05 美元的稅後虧損。

Turning to our development activity. At the end of the quarter, development projects were underway across all platforms, with our share of the net cost of $944 million to a blended yield of 9%. Approximately 40% of net costs are mixed-use projects.

轉向我們的開發活動。截至本季末，所有平台的開發項目均已啟動，我們的淨成本份額為 9.44 億美元，混合收益率為 9%。約 40% 的淨成本來自混合用途項目。

We expect to begin construction on additional projects in the coming months. including a residential development at Brea Mall and new retail dining and outdoor spaces at the Shops at Mission Viejo, both in Orange County, California, as well as the redevelopment of a former department store at the Fashion Mall and Keystone in Indianapolis into dynamic mixed uses starts for this year will be approximately $500 million.

我們預計在未來幾個月內開始建造更多項目，包括位於加州橘郡的 Brea Mall 的住宅開發項目和 Mission Viejo 購物中心的新零售餐飲和戶外空間，以及將位於印第安納波利斯的 Fashion Mall 和 Keystone 的一家前百貨公司重新開發為動態混合用途項目，今年的開工金額約為 5 億美元。

Turning to the balance sheet. We were active in the first quarter where we completed 12 secured loan transactions totaling approximately USD2.3 billion. The weighted average interest rate on these loans was 5.73%. At the end of the quarter, we had net debt to EBITDA of 5.2 times and our fixed charge coverage ratio was incredibly strong at 4.6 times. And as David mentioned earlier, we are well positioned to allocate capital and be opportunistic to various economic sites.

轉向資產負債表。我們在第一季表現活躍，完成了 12 筆擔保貸款交易，總額約 23 億美元。這些貸款的加權平均利率為5.73%。截至本季末，我們的淨負債與 EBITDA 比率為 5.2 倍，固定費用覆蓋率高達 4.6 倍。正如大衛之前提到的，我們已做好準備，可以分配資本並抓住各種經濟機會。

Turning to the dividends. Today, we announced our dividend of $2.10 per share for the second quarter a year-over-year increase of $0.10 or 5%. The dividend is payable on June 30.

談到股息。今天，我們宣布第二季每股股息為 2.10 美元，年增 0.10 美元，增幅為 5%。股息將於6月30日支付。

Turning to guidance for '25. We are reaffirming our full year 2025 Real Estate FFO guidance range of $12.40 to $12.65 per share. As we stated in February, when issuing our initial full year 2025 guidance, our range reflects Real Estate FFO and does not include OPI. We expect the results to trend towards the middle of the range given the current macroeconomic and tariff uncertainty potentially impacting retailer sales.

轉向 25 年的指導。我們重申 2025 年全年房地產 FFO 指引範圍為每股 12.40 美元至 12.65 美元。正如我們在 2 月發布 2025 年全年初始指引時所述，我們的範圍反映了房地產 FFO，並不包括 OPI。鑑於當前宏觀經濟和關稅不確定性可能影響零售商銷售，我們預期結果將趨向中間範圍。

With that, thank you to everyone. David and I are available for your questions.

最後，感謝大家。David 和我願意回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Steve Sakwa, Evercore ISI.

（操作員指示） Steve Sakwa，Evercore ISI。

David and Brian. I guess I know the tariff situation has certainly been de-escalated but I'm just curious what sort of conversations you were maybe having with retailers kind of leading up to today's announcement? And how do you think it impacts if at all, the leasing? And I guess, Brian, you sort of talked about sales, but I guess what are you baking in for sales today maybe versus three months ago?

大衛和布萊恩。我知道關稅情況肯定已經緩和了，但我只是好奇，在今天的聲明發布之前，你們與零售商進行了什麼樣的對話？您認為這會對租賃產生什麼影響？我想，布萊恩，您談到了銷售，但我想與三個月前相比，您今天的銷售情況如何？

Yes. Steve. So I'll -- let me take that and Brian can add color. So just on the new leasing when we ask, obviously, every week to the leasing team, but it's only affected four deals that I am aware of from one European retailer because they were worried about the import cost bringing over goods from Europe. And it was -- big deals. But that's the only one.

是的。史蒂夫。所以我會——讓我來接受它，然後布萊恩可以添加顏色。因此，當我們每周向租賃團隊詢問新的租賃情況時，它只影響了四筆交付，據我所知，這筆交易來自一家歐洲零售商，因為他們擔心從歐洲進口商品的進口成本。這確實是一筆大買賣。但這是唯一的一個。

Other than that, at this point, it hasn't really affected any demand. And we're hopeful that it won't because as you know, retailers are looking long term on these stores. And at some point, we're all hopeful that this stabilizes.

除此之外，目前為止，它並沒有真正影響任何需求。我們希望這種情況不會發生，因為如你所知，零售商正在長期關注這些商店。在某種程度上，我們都希望這種情況能夠穩定下來。

Projecting and predicting sales is really difficult because to the extent that there is a retailer that imports goods from China, even with today's kind of reduction in the kind of tit for tat. You're still talking about 30% tariff, which is material.

預測和預報銷售額確實很困難，因為只要有零售商從中國進口商品，即使今天採取了針鋒相對的減少措施。你仍在談論 30% 的關稅，這是實質的。

And at this point, many retailers are either holding offering into goods from China, which could affect their inventory levels, trying to source it elsewhere, which they may or may not be successful with. And so it's a relatively big unknown to the extent that there's a reliance on China even on today's recent news. And given margins, those tariffs in the 30 percentage-Ish are -- I think are going to give retailers pause whether or not they can afford to have good ship to them. from China.

目前，許多零售商要么暫停供應來自中國的商品（這可能會影響他們的庫存水平），要么嘗試從其他地方採購，但這種方法可能成功，也可能不會成功。因此，這是一個相對較大的未知數，因為即使是今天的最新消息，人們也依賴中國。考慮到利潤率，這些 30% 左右的關稅會讓零售商猶豫是否能負擔從中國運送貨物的費用。

To the extent that it is in the more flat 10%, I think it's really retailer-dependent. I think they're going to probably operate business as usual. I think they'll try to pass a little bit on to the consumer. They'll try to get the manufacturer to take some of it and they meet some of it as well. But it shouldn't affect how they operate and how they inventory their stores.

從較為平穩的 10% 來看，我認為這確實依賴零售商。我認為他們可能會照常營業。我認為他們會嘗試將一點利益轉嫁給消費者。他們會試圖讓製造商承擔其中的一部分，而他們也會滿足其中的一部分。但這不應該影響他們的運作方式和商店庫存方式。

But China still is a big unknown. And so that's why, as Brian said in his comments, look, our sales were relatively flat. If we were relatively flat, as you know, we have a history of certainly beating the midpoint and always trying to achieve the upper end and even higher, it's impossible for us to say where sales are right now just because we don't know inventories. I mean I think we're going to obviously land within our original guidance, which is good given all the uncertainty.

但中國仍然是一個巨大的未知數。正如布萊恩在評論中所說，這就是為什麼我們的銷售相對持平。如果我們的銷售額相對平穩，那麼正如你所知，我們的歷史肯定超過了中間點，並且總是試圖達到上限甚至更高，我們不可能說出目前的銷售額在哪裡，因為我們不知道庫存。我的意思是，我認為我們顯然會達到我們最初的指導方針，考慮到所有的不確定性，這是一件好事。

But we're thinking that inventory levels could be affected because of the China tariffs even with these reduced ones as I went through. And so I think it has the potential to affect sales. And that's why we're being a little more conservative, and we're thinking it's probably going to be more in the midpoint 1 quarter-Ish into a very a very uncertain volatile thing.

但我們認為，即使中國關稅有所降低，庫存水準仍可能受到影響。所以我認為它有可能影響銷售。這就是為什麼我們採取更保守的態度，我們認為它可能會在 1 季度中期陷入非常不確定的波動之中。

But I'd also say to you, the good news is, other than this one anecdote on some small deals from one European retailer, demand is still strong, and we haven't seen across the board by any stretch of imagination, a reduction in leasing demand. And so that, in a nutshell, is the latest and greatest.

但我還要告訴你們，好消息是，除了這個歐洲零售商的一些小交易的軼事外，需求仍然強勁，而且我們還沒有看到租賃需求全面減少。簡而言之，這就是最新、最偉大的。

I'm sure if you ask us in a couple of weeks, we might have something new, but you've got retailers that are scrambling. Now remember, the way this thing works is that for retailers, the US retailers pay the tariff. So they can't get the goods on the boat unless they pay the tariffs at the time it's delivered to the boat.

我確信如果你在幾週後問我們，我們可能會有一些新產品，但零售商們卻在爭先恐後。現在請記住，這件事的運作方式是，對於零售商來說，美國零售商支付關稅。因此，除非他們在貨物送上船時支付關稅，否則他們無法將貨物裝上船。

So that's why you're probably seeing a lot of boats not make the journey over or a lot of inventory at the shores in China. And so it's an unusual situation that we're just going to have to see how it shakes out. Now we're obviously pleased to see that at least the relationship -- late relationships seem to be showing and seem to be on a more constructive path. But how it all shakes out. I mean, our guess is as good as yours or your economists or anybody else.

所以你可能會看到很多船隻無法航行或大量庫存滯留在中國海岸。這是一個不尋常的情況，我們只需要看看它如何發展。現在我們顯然很高興地看到，至少這種關係——後期的關係似乎有所顯現，而且似乎走上了一條更具建設性的道路。但這一切結果如何呢？我的意思是，我們的猜測和你的、你的經濟學家的或任何其他人的猜測一樣好。

Craig Mailman, Citi.

花旗銀行的克雷格‧梅爾曼 (Craig Mailman)。

Just as a follow-up there, David, that was really helpful providing your thoughts. I'm just interested in where you think kind of retailers stand from an inventory perspective in terms of when they do start to run out to the extent shipments from China don't kind of reaccelerate here following the filing. And have you seen that kind of pull forward of demand in your traffic data here in April and May as consumers kind of pull forward to get ahead of the tariffs.

大衛，作為後續行動，提供你的想法真的很有幫助。我只是想知道，從庫存角度來看，您認為零售商的庫存情況如何，什麼時候開始出現缺貨，以至於在提交申請後，來自中國的出貨量不會再次加速。您是否在 4 月和 5 月的交通數據中看到了這種需求提前的現象，因為消費者為了趕在關稅之前出行而提前出行？

Just kind of curious how you think that plays out for just the cadence of retail sales this year. The last few -- how you think the de minimis rule impacts some of your retailers who -- do you feel like we get a market share boost from the loss of that kind of avenue for customers to (technical difficulty).

我只是有點好奇，您認為這對今年的零售銷售節奏有何影響。最後幾個問題——您認為最低限度規則對一些零售商有何影響——您是否認為，由於失去了這種讓客戶購買商品的管道，我們的市場份額會有所提升？（技術難度）。

Yes. All right. So let me take it in because only because I can remember it this way, I hope Tom took notice. But de minimis is great for American-based companies, de minimis really hurt a number of retailers that obviously pay tariffs and weren't able to avoid that loophole. So -- and obviously, a couple of Chinese companies took real advantage of it.

是的。好的。所以讓我接受它，因為只有我能這樣記住它，我希望湯姆注意到了。但最低限度對美國公司來說很好，最低限度確實傷害了許多顯然支付關稅但無法避免這一漏洞的零售商。所以——顯然，一些中國公司確實利用了這一點。

So that is a great outcome, I want to applaud the administration for dealing with this loophole. Hopefully, it continues. And I think that's going to be a material benefit to our retailers to defend themselves against Chinese retailers that ship directly to the consumer, okay? So that was really important. Now with respect to Forever 21, I wish they had done it a couple of years ago because it would have leveled the playing field, but -- it is what it is.

這是一個很好的結果，我要為政府處理這個漏洞的努力鼓掌。希望這種情況能夠持續下去。我認為這對我們的零售商來說將是一個實質性的利益，以保護他們免受直接向消費者發貨的中國零售商的侵害，好嗎？所以這真的很重要。現在關於 Forever 21，我希望他們幾年前就這樣做，因為這樣可以提供公平的競爭環境，但——事實就是如此。

Your second question or maybe was your first, I would say that the -- we don't see in our -- what we -- what our retailers sell all that pull forward that's been talked about. So I think what you have to look at in the first through basically April now. We will get April sales shortly, because we're in arrears on that from our retailers. But I'll give you a general thing. First of all, two or three things happened, and I'll touch on traffic.

您的第二個問題，或者可能是您的第一個問題，我想說的是——我們沒有看到——我們的零售商銷售的所有內容都已經討論過了。所以我認為你現在必須專注於從一月到四月的情況。我們很快就會得到四月份的銷售額，因為我們拖欠了零售商的款項。但我會給你一個一般性的東西。首先，發生了兩三件事，我就談交通問題。

One is at an Easter that was in April versus March. So that was obviously very important. So that's why March sales were a little bit higher last year than this year. You had weather issues certainly in the outdoor outlet centers for us in February. The weather was historically back compared to 24%.

一個是在四月而不是三月的復活節。所以這顯然非常重要。這就是為什麼去年三月的銷售額比今年略高的原因。二月份，我們的戶外直銷中心確實遇到了天氣問題。天氣狀況較歷史同期下跌 24%。

And traffic through the quarter was I would say down slightly, but when you look at year-to-date through April, it's actually up year-to-date because now we've taken into account a -- so traffic is holding up. The malls are actually performing above and the outlets are relatively flat. And I would say what we're seeing in the outlet on a traffic point of view is we have assets on the boat whether it's Mexico or Canada.

我想說的是，本季的流量略有下降，但當你回顧截至 4 月份的年初至今的數據時，你會發現，年初至今的流量實際上是上升的，因為現在我們已經考慮到了 - 所以流量保持穩定。事實上，商場的表現高於奧特萊斯，而奧特萊斯的表現則相對平淡。我想說，從交通角度來看，我們在船上擁有資產，無論是墨西哥還是加拿大。

And obviously, there's been a slowdown in traffic and sales on some of our border great long-term assets, but currently, with all the rhetoric, we're seeing some traffic give you -- on some of the border assets with Canada and our Mexican customers. So hopefully, as that rhetoric die down, we'll get back to normal.

顯然，我們一些邊境長期資產的流量和銷售有所放緩，但目前，隨著各種言論的出現，我們看到與加拿大和墨西哥客戶的一些邊境資產的流量有所下降。因此，希望隨著這些言論的平息，我們能夠恢復正常。

On what -- and I think your first question, what retailers basically have, the way I understand it, which is not perfect and every retailer is different. I would say they have probably another month or so, maybe longer to decide what they're going to do with respect to China for Q4 inventory.

關於什麼——我認為你的第一個問題是，零售商基本上擁有什麼，我的理解是，這並不完美，而且每個零售商都不同。我想說他們可能還需要一個月左右的時間，甚至更長的時間來決定如何處理中國第四季的庫存。

So -- and I've seen a number of retailers have already reduced their exposure to China dramatically. And so as I said earlier, those retailers are more or less taking a 10% told you kind of how they're thinking about it, but it's business as usual. To the extent it's China, they're either trying to replicate the goods elsewhere, if they can't, they're, I think, holding off on making a China decision.

所以——我看到許多零售商已經大幅減少了對中國的依賴。正如我之前所說，這些零售商或多或少都會收取 10% 的費用，告訴你他們是如何考慮的，但這一切照常。就中國而言，他們要么試圖在其他地方複製產品，如果做不到，我認為他們就會推遲做出在中國的決定。

And I think they probably -- this is squishy, but they probably have a month-Ish to win if they still are in a holding pattern whether to pull the trigger or not, it could affect inventory levels in Q4.

我認為他們可能——這很棘手，但他們可能還有一個月的時間來取勝，如果他們仍然處於等待狀態，無論是否採取行動，這可能會影響第四季度的庫存水準。

But I think that so retail idiosyncratic. It's hard for me to make that blanket statement. And then obviously, I think the European retailers have much better control over their production, and I don't see any change coming from them. I think their approach will be more on how they're going to price their goods to the ultimate end consumer. Hope that's helpful. I think I covered all three.

但我認為這是零售業的特質。我很難做出這個概括性的陳述。顯然，我認為歐洲零售商對其生產的控制力要好得多，而且我沒有看到他們做出任何改變。我認為他們的方法更在於如何向最終消費者定價他們的產品。希望有幫助。我認為我已經涵蓋了這三個方面。

Sameer Khanna, Bank of America.

美國銀行的薩米爾·卡納（Sameer Khanna）。

David, I guess given the uncertainty out there and kind of what you said retailers scrambling to make sort of a long-term decision, has that -- has your approach changed and kind of how you're dealing with your tenants, whether -- when you're negotiating leases, whether it's on new deals, whether it's pricing or TIs, I mean how are you're approaching the situation sort of here given the uncertainty out there for tenants to make long-term decisions?

大衛，我想，考慮到外面的不確定性，以及您所說的零售商爭相做出某種長期決策，您的方法是否發生了變化？您與租戶打交道的方式是否發生了變化？當您談判租約時，無論是新交易，還是定價或 TI，我的意思是，考慮到租戶做出長期決策的不確定性，您是如何處理這種情況的？

Like I said, the only anecdotal thing is one retailer backing out of four outlet deals but that's not a big deal to us because they were replacement tenants that we're -- that we already have leased. Honestly, as I said earlier, it's business as usual. So supply is still very much constrained. Demand is still strong. And the reliance, as I said earlier from China is much reduced.

就像我說的，唯一的傳聞是一家零售商退出了四家奧特萊斯交易，但這對我們來說不是什麼大問題，因為他們是我們已經租賃的替代租戶。老實說，正如我之前所說，一切照常。因此供應仍然受到嚴重限制。需求依然強勁。正如我之前所說，對中國的依賴已大大減少。

So right now, I can't guarantee it, but right now, it's business as usual. I don't think we're doing really anything out of the ordinary or dealing with them. Obviously, to the extent they have a specific issue, we'll try to address it. But they have come a long way on their supply chain and been reducing the Chinese imports for a long time.

所以現在，我無法保證，但現在一切照常。我認為我們並沒有做任何不尋常的事情或處理這些問題。顯然，如果他們有具體問題，我們會盡力解決。但他們在供應鏈方面已經取得了長足的進步，並且長期以來一直在減少中國的進口。

I do worry a little bit about not the bigger ones. Again, we haven't seen -- I think the bigger retailers have sophisticated supply chains and long-term relationships with suppliers everywhere. I do think the Main Street retailers, local moms, and pops, we all need as a country to be focused on. I think they could have more -- again, we haven't seen it.

我確實有點擔心那些不是大號的。再說一次，我們還沒有看到——我認為大型零售商擁有複雜的供應鏈，並與各地的供應商建立了長期的關係。我確實認為，作為一個國家，我們都需要關注街上的零售商、當地的夫妻店和小店。我認為他們可能有更多——再說一次，我們還沒有看到。

But if I had to venture if things don't stabilize -- which today is a good step, but if they don't ultimately stabilize, I think you'll have potential pressure points on the local mom-and-pop retailers that are important to the country. And obviously, we do lease space to them. So again, I'm not -- hopefully, I'm not anticipating. We're not seeing a problem, but I do worry about that a little bit more than say XYZ that has 100 stores.

但如果我必須冒險，如果情況不穩定——今天這是一個很好的舉措，但如果最終無法穩定下來，我認為你將對國家重要的當地夫妻店零售商施加潛在的壓力。顯然，我們確實向他們租賃了空間。所以再說一次，我沒有──希望我沒有預料到。我們沒有發現問題，但我確實比擁有 100 家商店的 XYZ 公司更擔心這一點。

Michael Goldsmith, UBS.

瑞銀集團的麥可‧戈德史密斯。

Can you talk about the back leasing of those Forever 21 boxes. What types of tenants are you seeing interest in taking the space, those are -- tend to be bigger boxes. So have you need to break them up? And -- how quickly can you get lead to (technical difficulty).

您能談談那些 Forever 21 盒子的回租情況嗎？您看到哪些類型的租戶對該空間感興趣？那些往往是更大的盒子。那你有必要拆散他們嗎？以及——你能多快獲得線索（技術難度）。

Yes. I'll -- look, I think the demand has been really good. We've got basically over half of them leased with that -- those economics, we've already replaced the rent that Forever 21 was paying us. So -- and I think it's a combination of -- we're doing a lot of business with Primark, ZARAs of the world. They are, in some cases, splitting it up, and we're very focused on it.

是的。我會——看，我認為需求一直都很好。我們基本上已經租出了超過一半的店鋪——這些經濟效益已經彌補了 Forever 21 支付給我們的租金。所以 — — 我認為這是我們與 Primark、ZARA 等品牌開展大量業務的結合。在某些情況下，他們會將其拆分，而我們對此非常關注。

But we will more than double at the end of the day, and it will take a couple of years, but all in to at least basically 100 stores, but we'll more than double the rent at the end of the two-year process. Brian, do you agree with that?

但最終我們的規模將增加一倍以上，這需要幾年的時間，但至少會達到 100 家門市，而在兩年的時間結束時，我們的租金也將增加一倍以上。布萊恩，你同意嗎？

Yes. No, absolutely. We've got about 50 of them addressed. We think those 50, about half of those are commencement of rent this year, the other half next year with the balance kind of finishing out as we complete our leasing efforts, (technical difficulty) But to David's point, we do think rents are going to at least double.

是的。不，絕對不是。我們已經解決了大約 50 個問題。我們認為這 50 間房屋中大約有一半是今年開始出租的，另一半是明年開始出租的，其餘的將在我們完成租賃工作後結束，（技術難度）但對於 David 的觀點，我們確實認為租金將至少翻一番。

Alexander Goldfarb, Piper Sandler.

亞歷山大·戈德法布、派珀·桑德勒。

David, I appreciate your comment about the mom-and-pop retailers pretty interesting, especially given your platform. So a question, if I hear you correctly, it sounds like the consumer is fine despite what we read online in the newspapers, et cetera, recession, job loss, whatever. But it sounds like the consumers find the shopper is fine. It sounds like the real wildcard are inventory levels.

大衛，我很欣賞你對夫妻店零售商的評論，這很有趣，尤其是考慮到你的平台。所以，如果我沒理解錯的話，我想問一下，儘管我們在報紙、網路等媒體上看到經濟衰退、失業等消息，但消費者似乎還是不錯的。但聽起來消費者似乎覺得購物者很好。聽起來真正的不確定因素是庫存水準。

So it sounds like restaurants and the other similar services that aren't impacted by tariffs are doing well. So is that correct that we should -- the real concern to earnings is really about inventory levels and whether they can sell out products and hit percent rents? Or are there other things that are playing into your outlook?

因此聽起來餐廳和其他不受關稅影響的類似服務經營狀況良好。那麼，我們應該這樣說嗎——對收益的真正關注實際上是庫存水平以及他們是否能夠銷售完產品並達到百分比租金？或者有其他因素影響了你的觀點？

No. I'd say it's all around sales. Now sales is more than just inventory levels, right? It's consumer sentiment, right? And that's hard to predict, Alex, as you know. I mean, right now, it's pretty good. Our sales are flat ex to retailers are basically flat. And again, we don't have April sales. But that was -- that's basically flat through end of March. And again, I explained the Easter being in Q1 versus Q2 this year.

不。我想說這一切都與銷售有關。現在銷售額不僅僅是庫存水平，對嗎？這是消費者情緒，對嗎？如你所知，這很難預測，亞歷克斯。我的意思是，現在，它非常好。除了零售商外，我們的銷售額基本上持平。再說一次，我們沒有四月的銷售。但截至三月底，這數字基本持平。我再次解釋了今年復活節是在第一季而不是第二季。

So I expect sales once I get April numbers to be up first four months over the year compared to last year. So the consumer, I think, is fine. I do think they're being a little more cautious. And I do think tourism is -- I don't -- this may be the wrong word, flattening, waning. What are the different phases of the [moon]? Waxing, waning whatever it is.

因此，我預計，一旦獲得四月份的數據，今年前四個月的銷售額將比去年同期有所成長。所以我認為，對於消費者來說，一切都很好。我確實認為他們變得更加謹慎了。我確實認為旅遊業正在——我不認為——這可能是錯誤的詞，正在趨於平緩、正在衰落。有哪些不同階段[月亮]？不管是什麼，都有盈虧。

I think tourism to the US is going to be cautious this year, whether it's from Mexican nationals, Canadians, Europeans, I do think -- and again, we have -- we've just seen a little bit on the border. On the other hand, the dollar is weaker, so maybe that offsets it. But I do think there should be a little bit caution to win on just some -- the sales that are generated by non-US consumers.

我認為今年前往美國的旅遊業將會非常謹慎，無論是來自墨西哥國民、加拿大人還是歐洲人，我確實認為——而且我們再次看到——我們在邊境上看到了一些。另一方面，美元走弱，因此這或許可以抵銷其影響。但我確實認為，應該稍微謹慎一點，才能贏得一些非美國消費者帶來的銷售。

And so you put it all together, the economy is clearly a little bit uncertain to put it all together and it makes it really hard to predict sales right now. But even if it's -- like I said, we're just thinking it's going to be a little more cautious, and that's why we're indicating it's probably more likely.

所以，把所有因素綜合起來，經濟顯然有點不確定，這使得現在很難預測銷售。但即使是這樣——就像我說的，我們只是認為我們會更加謹慎，這就是為什麼我們認為這種可能性更大。

We have this history of beating and raising and we're trying to be realistic, given the set of circumstances that we're dealing with, and that's why we're thinking sales and it's really only sales that have the variability that could ultimately produce us more in the middle of the range.

我們有過超越和提高的歷史，考慮到我們所面臨的一系列情況，我們試圖做到現實，這就是為什麼我們考慮銷售，而實際上只有具有可變性的銷售才能最終讓我們在中間範圍內獲得更多。

And David, if I could just ask a clarification. Your comments on the US consumer, is that the same for your European and Asian portfolios or those consumers are experiencing different trends in the US?

大衛，我可以問一下澄清一下嗎？您對美國消費者的評論與您的歐洲和亞洲投資組合的評論是否相同，或者這些消費者在美國經歷了不同的趨勢？

There actually, the or -- and it's basically our portfolio investment in Klepierre. Japan is -- it's all international, it's all very good, right? So they're not -- they're playing field (technical difficulty) hasn't changed. So we don't expect that whole business, whether it's Europe and/or Asia for us is basically stability. So we're outperforming in Europe and in Asia.

實際上，或者說——這基本上是我們對 Klepierre 的投資組合。日本是——完全國際化，一切都很好，對嗎？所以他們的競爭環境（技術難度）沒有改變。因此，我們並不期望整個業務，無論是歐洲還是亞洲，基本上都是穩定的。因此，我們在歐洲和亞洲的表現都十分出色。

And obviously, there's fluctuations in Korea, it could be up. Japan could be down. But generally, it's basically according to plan. I don't expect any change there. The US consumer that goes to these places really doesn't drive our business. It's for the Germans going to Italy and that kind of stuff. Certainly more likely the Chinese go to Europe when they come here.

顯然，韓國的情況存在波動，可能會上升。日本可能會衰退。但整體來說，基本上都是按照計畫進行的。我並不期望那裡會有任何改變。前往這些地方的美國消費者實際上並沒有推動我們的業務。這是為德國人去義大利之類的事準備的。當然，中國人來這裡更有可能去歐洲。

Caitlin Burrows, Goldman Sachs.

凱特琳·伯羅斯，高盛。

Maybe one thing that's tougher to predict then the tenant sales result is OPI. But with that in mind, I guess, wondering, David, if you could go through some of the OPI performance in 1Q, kind of talk about what's going on there?

也許比租戶銷售結果更難預測的一件事是 OPI。但考慮到這一點，我想，大衛，您是否可以介紹第一季的 OPI 表現，談談那裡發生了什麼？

And I know they aren't part of guidance, but just trying to understand how some of the revenue and cost synergies that were planned for 2025 are going expectations for those to progress throughout the year? And then, I guess, separately would be how the tariff situation could impact, JCPenney and the other catalyst brands this year?

我知道它們不是指導的一部分，但只是想了解 2025 年計劃的一些收入和成本協同效應在全年的進展如何？然後，我想，另外，關稅情況今年會對 JCPenney 和其他催化劑品牌產生什麼影響？

Again, OPI is -- had improvement. Again, OPI is basically three businesses. Just so everybody knows. It's our e-commerce business, RGG, Shop Simon, which we own roughly 45% and our interest in Catalyst Group, which is Penny and the other operating brands, Brooks Brothers, Lucky, et cetera, which we now own remind me 39% and our 50% interest in Jamestown. So that's all it is. That's all it plans to be. And it's not what we live and breathe every day though. We're focused on creating value there as we have with ABG and our other OPI investments.

再次，OPI 有所改善。再次強調，OPI 基本上包括三項業務。只是為了讓大家知道。我們的電子商務業務是 RGG、Shop Simon，我們擁有其約 45% 的股份，我們在 Catalyst Group 的權益是 Penny 和其他營運品牌，Brooks Brothers、Lucky 等，我們現在擁有其 39% 的股份，我們在 Jamestown 擁有 50% 的股份。就是這樣。這就是它的全部計劃。但這並不是我們每天生活和呼吸的東西。我們專注於在那裡創造價值，就像我們對 ABG 和其他 OPI 投資所做的那樣。

So getting to your question, we had quarter-over-quarter improvement in -- the other two businesses are stable, fine, going according to plan. The Catalyst brands had real improvement quarter-over-quarter. As you know, part of that was being not only the synergies that it was achieving in the merger, but also the F-21, bankruptcy 21 is gone. And they're getting their synergies. And Penny, in terms of sourcing goods, they have a lot less reliance on China.

所以回到你的問題，我們的季度環比有所改善——其他兩項業務穩定、良好，按計劃進行。Catalyst 品牌的業績比上一季有顯著改善。如您所知，這不僅歸功於合併所實現的協同效應，還歸功於 F-21，破產 21 已經消失。他們正在發揮協同效應。彭妮，在採購商品方面，他們對中國的依賴程度要小得多。

There is some reliance on China. We're trying to source it elsewhere. And if not, I think they're going to be one of these retailers that has the side in the next six weeks, whether to pull the trigger to bring goods here or not.

對中國有一定的依賴。我們正在嘗試從其他地方尋找來源。如果不是，我認為他們將成為未來六週內佔據主導地位的零售商之一，無論是否採取行動將商品運送到這裡。

And obviously, they're negotiating very hard with their suppliers. And they have -- I mean, the administration is right. They have more leverage in negotiating with suppliers because the US is a big market, but it's we're -- they're in a tricky spot. It's very hard to predict sales for those brands, just like it would be for some other retailers.

顯然，他們正在與供應商進行非常艱難的談判。他們確實這麼做了——我的意思是，政府的做法是正確的。由於美國市場龐大，他們在與供應商談判時擁有更大的籌碼，但他們的處境卻很棘手。與其他一些零售商一樣，這些品牌的銷售也很難預測。

But some of the brands in catalysts like Brooks Brothers is doing great. So they're achieving the synergies that they wanted -- the business is on plan. And the bottom line is even with today's uncertainty, we still expect to have -- again, it doesn't show in our numbers because of depreciation that I've explained to everybody, but we expect Catalysts to have positive EBITDA this year, even with all the tariff and economic uncertainty that it's causing going forward.

但有些品牌，如 Brooks Brothers，表現卻十分出色。因此，他們實現了他們想要的協同效應——業務正在按計劃進行。底線是，即使存在今天的不確定性，我們仍然預計——再次強調，由於我已經向所有人解釋過的折舊，這並沒有體現在我們的數據中，但我們預計 Catalysts 今年的 EBITDA 將為正，即使未來存在所有關稅和經濟不確定性。

So again, I would suggest you don't worry about it all that much. That's what we're telling the market, but we're happy to answer any and every question except what the price of a cotton shirt is a -- that I don't know.

因此，我再次建議你不要太擔心。這就是我們告訴市場的訊息，但我們很樂意回答任何問題，除了棉質襯衫的價格是多少——這個我不知道。

That's what I do, but I don't want to be a know at all. Okay. That's a good look at share -- it's better than those -- you used to wear those weird shirts, okay. So I think he's a Brooks Brothers consumer.

我就是這麼做的，但我根本不想成為知識分子。好的。這是一個很好的觀察——它比那些更好——你曾經穿過那些奇怪的襯衫，好吧。所以我認為他是 Brooks Brothers 的消費者。

Greg McGinniss, Scotiabank.

加拿大豐業銀行的格雷格·麥金尼斯。

The balance sheet continues to be in great shape. But has macroeconomic uncertainty reached a point where you're making adjustments to capital plans to maybe become a bit more defensive, whether that's reconsidering certain development activity, CapEx, or your appetite for acquisitions or otherwise.

資產負債表繼續保持良好狀態。但是宏觀經濟的不確定性是否已經達到了這樣的程度，以至於您需要調整資本計劃，可能變得更具防禦性，無論是重新考慮某些開發活動、資本支出，還是對收購的興趣等等。

That's a great question. And I would say we're still making a long-term decision. So -- we're very fortunate to -- since we've been public as far as I can remember, even with COVID thrown at us and the great financial recession and everything else. We've never -- since I've been involved, we've never been over our skis. And we are -- we haven't even put on our skis, I can keep with the analogy, right? Is that the right word.

這是一個很好的問題。我想說我們仍在做出一個長期的決定。所以——我們非常幸運——自從我記事以來，我們就已經上市了，即使遭遇了新冠疫情、嚴重的金融衰退和其他各種情況。自從我參與以來，我們從來沒有發生過爭執。而我們──我們甚至還沒有穿上滑雪板，我可以繼續這個比喻，對嗎？這是正確的字嗎？

So we're not -- we haven't even put on our skis recently, right? So we've been cautious to begin with -- or we have all these opportunities. We're very studious in them. But I would say, yes, instinctively, we're more cautious right now. We are expecting -- our development pipeline is there, but it's not -- we're not going crazy with it. I think it will continue. We are expecting construction costs to increase. So the things that haven't started.

所以我們不是——我們最近甚至沒有穿上滑雪板，對嗎？因此我們從一開始就非常謹慎——或者說我們擁有所有這些機會。我們非常勤奮學習這些知識。但我想說，是的，從本能上來說，我們現在更加謹慎。我們期望——我們的開發管道已經存在，但事實並非如此——我們不會為此而瘋狂。我認為這種情況將會持續下去。我們預計建築成本將會增加。所以那些事情還沒開始。

Obviously, we don't start construction until we have to guarantee (technical difficulty) anyway. But the things that are on the docket to start or we're getting through -- we're not pulling triggers until we have all the costs finalized and everything else. So I think caution is the word of order, but that doesn't mean we won't buy something or that we won't continue to do our pipeline. But it'd be foolish for us not to be a little more cautious.

顯然，無論如何，沒有必須保證（技術難度）的程度，我們不會開始施工。但對於正在開始或正在處理的事項 — — 在所有費用和其他所有事項最終確定之前，我們不會採取行動。因此，我認為謹慎是秩序之詞，但這並不意味著我們不會購買某些東西，或者我們不會繼續建造我們的管道。但如果我們不更謹慎一點，那就太愚蠢了。

Greg, I think the only thing I would add there is, as you know, as volatility increases, sometimes for us, opportunities increase. And so we have a strong pipeline, and we are clinical with our capital, as you know. So nothing really materially changed, but obviously, a bit more caution relative to the headlines these days.

格雷格，我想我唯一要補充的是，正如你所知，隨著波動性的增加，有時對我們來說，機會也會增加。因此，正如您所知，我們擁有強大的管道，我們對我們的資本非常重視。因此實際上並沒有發生實質的改變，但顯然，相對於最近的頭條新聞，人們更加謹慎了。

I'll give you a simple example. I was just thinking out loud, but we had one development in Asia. I was going to say it. But it just didn't feel like the right time to do it just because it wasn't material. And it just feels like we should be a little more cautious. And again, I don't want to say that we aren't going to do a couple of deals here that could even be nontrivial. But caution is the word of order right now.

我給你舉一個簡單的例子。我只是在自言自語，但我們在亞洲有一個發展。我正要說出那句話。但感覺現在並不是做這件事的正確時機，因為這不是實質的事。我覺得我們應該要更加謹慎。再說一次，我不想說我們不會在這裡做幾筆甚至可能不小的交易。但現在謹慎才是關鍵。

Okay. So if I'm looking at the development pipeline, maybe we don't go much above this kind of $1 billion level for now and acquisitions still on the table, but of course, everything depends on the underwriting.

好的。因此，如果我看一下開發管道，也許我們目前不會超過 10 億美元的水平，並且仍在考慮收購，但當然，一切都取決於承保。

Well, Greg, I would say, as you heard me in my prepared remarks, we ultimately believe that we're going to start about $500 million of projects that are not included in that $1 billion spend level. So we are still advancing our projects that are ready to move forward, but we're just doing so thoughtfully.

好吧，格雷格，我想說，正如你在我準備好的演講中聽到的那樣，我們最終相信我們將啟動約 5 億美元的項目，這些項目不包括在 10 億美元的支出水平中。因此，我們仍在推進準備推進的項目，但我們只是經過深思熟慮才這麼做的。

Floris Van Dijkum, Compass Point.

弗洛里斯·範迪庫姆，羅盤點。

David, you sound very chipper. I'm glad to hear your voice. Can I ask you about the SNO pipeline, where it stands today? I think end of the fourth quarter was the 250 basis points. Has that grown? And how do you see that -- can you quantify that for us? And what's the timing of those rents coming online?

大衛，你聽起來很開心。我很高興聽到你的聲音。可以問一下 SNO 管道的狀況嗎？它現在處於什麼狀態？我認為第四季末是250個基點。有長大嗎？您如何看待這一點—您能為我們量化一下嗎？這些租金什麼時候開始生效？

You may ask, but I'm going to have Brian answer that.

你可能會問，但我會讓布萊恩來回答這個問題。

Floris, it's about 300 basis points today. From a SNO pipeline, we're spending about 300 basis points when you run the math on that. About $150 million worth of rent at our average rents. But again, that's not all incremental to the existing kind of space. So it's not all going to be additive -- we probably believe that the back half of this year, you're probably going to see 30% to 40% of that.

弗洛里斯，今天大約是 300 個基點。從 SNO 管道來看，計算一下，我們花了大約 300 個基點。以我們的平均租金計算，租金價值約為 1.5 億美元。但同樣，這對現有的空間來說並不是全部增量。因此，這並不全是附加的——我們可能認為，今年下半年，你可能會看到 30% 到 40% 的增幅。

And the bulk of that will hit in 2016? Or is there also some spillover into 2017?

其中大部分將在 2016 年實現？或者這種影響會延續到 2017 年嗎？

'26 is sub '27. We are seeing some -- looking out further or have been looking out further. So some of that is included in that as well.

'26 低於 '27。我們看到了一些——看得更遠或一直在看得更遠。其中也包括一些內容。

And that includes the Forever 21 spaces as well.

這也包括 Forever 21 空間。

It does, yes. The ones that are least signed up. Yes.

是的，確實如此。報名人數最少的。是的。

Vince Tibone, Green Street.

文斯提博內 (Vince Tibone)，綠街。

Could you discuss trends in tenant sales in a little bit more detail? I'm curious if there are any specific tenants or categories that are having an outsized impact on the decline in trailing 12-month portfolio sales results.

您能否更詳細地討論一下租戶銷售趨勢？我很好奇是否有任何特定的租戶或類別對過去 12 個月投資組合銷售業績的下降產生了巨大影響。

Well, I mentioned -- one of the decreases -- I mean, it's a marginal decrease, but you have to -- we don't like to get into specific retailers. We had two that were basically flat if you put those two retailers aside. And again, Easter was not in this versus last 12 months or last time. So when you -- Vince, when you cut through it, it is relatively flat. And we had a little -- the malls were a little bit above, outlets were a little bit down, and I mentioned earlier, part of that was because of the weather.

好吧，我提到過——其中一個減少——我的意思是，這是一個微小的減少，但你必須——我們不喜歡涉及特定的零售商。如果將那兩家零售商放在一邊，我們的業績基本上持平。再說一次，今年的復活節與去年或上次的復活節不一樣​​。所以當你——文斯，當你切開它時，它是相對平坦的。我們遇到了一些問題——購物中心的銷售額略高一些，而奧特萊斯的銷售額略低一些，我之前提到過，部分原因是天氣原因。

We had a very tough -- you probably never experienced it being in Southern California and Newport Beach, where it's sunny most of the time, you have other issues there, right, or the quakes unfortunately, fires.

我們經歷了非常艱難的時期——你可能從未在南加州和紐波特海灘經歷過這種情況，那裡大部分時間都是陽光明媚，但你還會遇到其他問題，對吧，或者不幸的是地震和火災。

But -- so -- and then again, we had a little softness in some of our border activity. But I would say, by and large, our top 25 retailers had we're pretty much doing okay enough. So no -- other than that color, nothing unusual on sales.

但是——所以——我們的一些邊境活動還是有些鬆懈。但我想說，總的來說，我們的前 25 家零售商的表現還不錯。所以，除了顏色之外，銷售情況沒有什麼異常。

No, that's great to hear. I appreciate the color. And then one more, switching gears. You didn't mention department stores as it relates to any tariff-related or inventory concerns. But I would imagine many of their products are sourced from China. I'm just curious, what is your current outlook for department store closures over the next few years? Has it changed at all with any of this macro uncertainty.

不，聽到這個消息真是太好了。我很欣賞這個顏色。然後再換一個檔。您沒有提到百貨公司與關稅或庫存問題的關係。但我猜想他們的許多產品都來自中國。我只是好奇，您對未來幾年百貨公司關閉的情況有何看法？這種宏觀不確定性是否改變了它？

Yes. So it depends on the department store. So for instance if they don't have private label they really don't have -- they're not sourcing their own goods. They really don't have the tariff -- the China tariff exposure that you might think. So it really depends on which department store you're talking about and how big their private label business stands.

是的。所以這取決於百貨公司。舉例來說，如果他們沒有自有品牌，那麼他們實際上就沒有——他們沒有購買自己的商品。他們實際上沒有關稅——你可能認為的中國關稅風險。所以這實際上取決於你談論的是哪家百貨公司以及他們的自有品牌業務規模有多大。

So if they sell mostly branded goods, then it's really their relationship with the wholesaler and what the wholesaler -- so the wholesaler has to pay the import if they get it from China or elsewhere, how they want to negotiate that between wholesalers manufacturer and what they want to pass that on to the department store, and that's a whole complicated and what the consumer pays.

因此，如果他們主要銷售品牌商品，那麼這實際上就是他們與批發商的關係，以及批發商——因此，如果批發商從中國或其他地方進貨，他們必須支付進口費用，他們想如何在批發商和製造商之間進行談判，以及他們想將費用轉嫁給百貨公司，這是一個非常複雜的問題，而消費者支付的費用又是多少。

So there's just no way to really know how that all shakes out. And as far as we can see on department store closures, we don't see -- as you know, we had the Macy's announcement. We had one that was affected by that. It wouldn't surprise me if, again, you don't see pruning just like you do from every retailer on their store level. But I don't expect any real any real major changes right now.

因此，我們根本無法真正知道這一切最終會如何發展。據我們所知，沒有看到百貨公司關閉的消息——如你所知，我們收到了梅西百貨的公告。我們有一個受此影響的人。如果您沒有像在每個零售商的商店層面上看到那樣看到修剪，我不會感到驚訝。但我現在並不期待任何真正的重大改變。

And again, the tariff situation is idiosyncratic to that department store and mostly impacts whether or not they have a big private label business.

而且，關稅情況對於該百貨公司來說是特殊的，並且主要影響他們是否擁有大型自有品牌業務。

Mike Mueller, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的麥克·穆勒。

Going back to sales for a second. I know you flagged Easter and two retailers, but would your recent sales trends be materially different, either positively or negatively if you look at things on an NOI-weighted basis?

回到銷售話題。我知道您提到了復活節和兩家零售商，但如果以淨銷售額加權為基礎來看，您最近的銷售趨勢是否會出現實質性的不同，無論是積極的還是消極的？

Yes. I would say we used to always do that. We have -- I didn't see it. We haven't -- we don't do by waiting -- we should do that, by the way. But let's -- that's another that's me telling my guys.

是的。我想說我們過去總是這麼做。我們有——但我沒有看到。我們還沒有——我們不會等待——順便說一句，我們應該這樣做。但讓我們——這是我告訴我的伙伴們的另一件事。

But I would say when I look at it, they do -- there's no question that the better properties are getting better. So the simple answer to that sales would be up and we can't give you the specific numbers, but sales would be up if you NOI weighted unequivocally.

但我想說，當我看到它時，它們確實如此——毫無疑問，更好的房產正在變得更好。因此，簡單的答案是銷售額會上升，我們無法給您具體的數字，但如果您明確地考慮淨銷售額，銷售額就會上升。

100 assets are up about 1.5%.

100項資產上漲約1.5％。

And that doesn't include that, again, has Easter in March of last year, not April this year.

這還不包括去年三月的復活節，今年不是四月。

Got it. Okay. Great. And one other one. On the $500 million of development starts, I think, Brian, you mentioned mixed-use components in there. How much of those dollars or even the overall redevelopment pipeline of those dollars are directly retail versus some other property type, whether it's office, hotel, resi.

知道了。好的。偉大的。還有另外一個。關於啟動 5 億美元的開發項目，布萊恩，我想您提到了其中的混合用途組件。這些資金，甚至這些資金的整體重建管道中有多少是直接用於零售，還是用於其他類型的房地產，無論是辦公室、飯店還是住宅？

I mean, effectively, the 60% that isn't mixed use, quite honestly, Michael. So 60% is retail and the other 40% would be mixed use all the other component.

我的意思是，實際上，60% 不是混合使用的，說實話，邁克爾。因此 60% 是零售，另外 40% 將混合使用所有其他部分。

By the way, that's in our share. So some of the -- so we have -- again, we're going to do a big residential development in Brea Mall, but we have a partner for that. So that's 500 new starts is our share. So it's a bigger pipe than just that. It's just we boil it down to our shares.

順便說一句，這是我們的份額。所以其中一些 — — 我們有 — — 再次，我們將在 Brea Mall 進行大型住宅開發，但我們有一個合作夥伴。所以，500 個新起點就是我們的份額。所以它的管道比那更大。我們只是將其歸結為我們的股份。

Ron Kamdem, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Ron Kamdem。

Great. Just wanted to go back to the guidance and I think some of the assumptions and inputs are to come into the last time. I appreciate it's still early, but how are you guys thinking about sort of domestic property NOI, bad debt as well as the $0.25 and $0.30 interest cost headwind for this year? Just how has those sort of changed since the last three months.

偉大的。只是想回到指導上，我認為一些假設和輸入將在最後一次出現。我知道現在還為時過早，但你們如何看待今年國內房地產淨營業收入、壞帳以及 0.25 美元和 0.30 美元的利息成本逆風？過去三個月以來，這些情況發生了怎樣的變化？

No change really.

確實沒有變化。

Yes. No change in any of those masses. You can see the interest income starting to come down. It's about $0.06 in the quarter. We would expect that to carry forward through the balance of the year. You will also see some more interest expense come through as we refinance our debt later this year -- high coupons on. But no material change to the other elements of the guidance -- we out the beginning of the year.

是的。這些腫塊均未發生任何變化。您可以看到利息收入開始下降。本季約為 0.06 美元。我們預計這一趨勢將延續至今年年底。隨著我們在今年稍後對債務進行再融資（高息票），您還會看到更多的利息支出。但指導的其他要素並沒有發生重大變化——我們在年初就做出了這個決定。

Haendel St. Juste, Mizuho Securities.

Haendel St. Juste、瑞穗證券。

This is Ravi Vaidya on the line for Haendel. I hope you guys are doing well. I wanted to particularly ask about your luxury tenants. Are you seeing -- what are you hearing from them in terms of sales and foot traffic? And maybe has there been any sort of pause or pull back on leasing demand from luxury tenants in particular?

我是 Ravi Vaidya，代表 Haendel 轉達。我希望你們一切都好。我想特別詢問一下您的豪華租戶的情況。您是否看到—您從他們那裡聽到了什麼有關銷售和客流量的消息？或許豪華租戶的租賃需求出現了暫停或回落？

Not really. Again, and I think it's very brand-specific. So -- you have some that are absolutely on fire, others that are bringing in new designers and updating the brand, but all of that's been pretty consistent for our outlook and what's been going on. So they think very long term like we do. So there really hasn't been a change of move or commitment from those brands.

並不真地。再說一次，我認為這是非常有品牌針對性的。所以——有些品牌絕對火爆，有些品牌則引進了新的設計師並更新了品牌，但所有這些都與我們的前景和正在發生的事情非常一致。所以他們像我們一樣考慮得很遠。因此這些品牌的舉措或承諾實際上並沒有改變。

And overall, I'd say the business is -- there's always ups and downs. But I'd say, overall, from a sales point of view, relatively flat. So it's -- we haven't seen the big sales growth, but I think a lot of that is more -- you have a few brands that are just in the midst of bringing in new designers and more of updating their brand.

總的來說，我認為生意場上總是有起有落。但我想說，整體而言，從銷售角度來看，相對穩定。所以，我們還沒有看到銷售額大幅成長，但我認為這在很大程度上是因為一些品牌正在引進新的設計師並更新其品牌。

Linda Tsai, Jefferies.

Linda Tsai，傑富瑞集團。

In terms of not seeing pull forward in demand now, do you think there's a scenario where a pull-forward demand materializes in 3Q if consumers shop earlier for the holiday season, if there's concern that inventories are low or product is more expensive?

就目前沒有看到需求提前拉動而言，您是否認為如果消費者提前為假期購物，如果擔心庫存低或產品價格更高，那麼在第三季度是否會出現提前需求的情況？

We have seen that a little bit historically. So I would say it's possible. And if that's the case, margins might be okay because in our price from -- for retailers, prices could go up. So I do think it's possible. We have seen it in other cases. So I wouldn't rule it out. And I think it's to be determined, but I wouldn't rule it out.

我們從歷史上已經看過一些這樣的情況。所以我認為這是可能的。如果是這樣的話，利潤率可能還可以，因為對於零售商來說，價格可能會上漲。所以我認為這是可能的。我們在其他案例中也看到過這種情況。所以我不會排除這種可能性。我認為這還有待確定，但我不會排除這種可能性。

Omotayo Okusanya, Deutsche Bank.

Omotayo Okusanya，德意志銀行。

Just a quick question on the $2.8 billion of debt refinancing. I wonder if you could just talk a little bit about what market looks like today, any big change in terms, LTVs or how lenders are generally kind of looking at the asset class at this point?

關於 28 億美元債務再融資，我只想問一個簡單的問題。我想知道您是否可以簡單談談當今的市場狀況，在 LTV 方面有什麼重大變化嗎，或者貸方目前通常如何看待資產類別？

Well, I'd say that lenders are very comfortable with the asset class. We've been upgraded with -- we've been upgraded from -- a positive from look.

嗯，我想說貸款人對這個資產類別非常滿意。從外觀上看，我們已經得到了升級——我們已經得到了升級——積極方面。

From an S&P perspective. From an unsecured perspective, $1.6 billion of maturities here, we will refinance that back in the unsecured market throughout the balance of the year. And on the mortgage side, you continue to see vendors, CMBS, life insurance companies and other looking at the asset class and looking to deploy capital given our leverage levels. We are relatively conservative from a financial point of view, as you know.

從標準普爾的角度來看。從無擔保的角度來看，這裡有 16 億美元的到期債務，我們將在今年餘下的時間內在無擔保市場上進行再融資。在抵押貸款方面，你繼續看到供應商、CMBS、人壽保險公司和其他機構正在關注資產類別，並希望根據我們的槓桿水平來部署資本。如您所知，從財務角度來看我們相對保守。

And so that opens us up to an opportunity to refinance what we did earlier in the year was representative of that home roads done in the first quarter. I think the market is up for us to continue to refinance. But importantly, we're rolling over our debt. We're not looking for incremental capital. We're not looking to extract excess proceeds to redeploy to our business. We're doing that with our free cash flow.

因此，這為我們提供了一個再融資的機會，我們在今年早些時候所做的工作代表了第一季完成的國內道路建設。我認為市場適合我們繼續進行再融資。但重要的是，我們正在展期債務。我們不尋求增量資本。我們並不打算提取過多的收益來重新部署到我們的業務中。我們正在利用自由現金流來實現這一點。

But the good news is good retail real estate as people are very financial -- they're very comfortable financing and certainly our company.

但好消息是零售房地產市場表現良好，因為人們非常精於理財——他們非常樂意為公司融資。

This concludes the question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the call back over to David Simon for closing remarks.

問答環節到此結束。我想將電話轉回給大衛·西蒙，請他做最後發言。

Okay. Just thank you, everybody. I think we'll talk soon. And I believe at least I do think the mood is getting more certain and more stable. So we're optimistic about this uncertainty resolving itself shortly.

好的。謝謝大家。我想我們很快就會談。我相信，至少我確實認為情緒正在變得更加確定和穩定。因此，我們對這種不確定性很快就得到解決持樂觀態度。

This concludes today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Enjoy the rest of your day.

今天的會議到此結束。現在您可以斷開線路。享受剩餘的一天。