西蒙地產 (SPG) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Simon Property Group Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Mr. Tom Ward, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations. Thank you, Mr. Ward, you may begin.

您好，歡迎參加西蒙地產集團 2023 年第二季度收益電話會議。 （操作員指示）謹此提醒，本次會議正在錄製中。現在我很高興向您介紹主持人，投資者關係高級副總裁湯姆·沃德先生。謝謝您，沃德先生，您可以開始了。

Thank you, Camilla, and thank you for joining us today. Presenting on today's call is David Simon, Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President; also on the call are Brian McDade, Chief Financial Officer; and Adam Reuille, Chief Accounting Officer. A quick reminder that statements made during this call may be deemed forward-looking statements within the meaning of the safe harbor of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, and actual results may differ materially due to a variety of risks, uncertainties and other factors.

謝謝你，卡米拉，也感謝你今天加入我們。出席今天電話會議的是董事長、首席執行官兼總裁 David Simon；首席財務官 Brian McDade 也參加了電話會議；和首席會計官 Adam Reuille。快速提醒您，本次電話會議中所做的陳述可能被視為1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》安全港含義內的前瞻性陳述，實際結果可能因各種風險、不確定性和其他因素而存在重大差異。

We refer you to today's press release and our SEC filings for a detailed discussion of the risk factors relating to those forward-looking statements. Please note that this call includes information that may be accurate only as of today's date. Reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures are included within the press release and the supplemental information in today's Form 8-K filing.

我們建議您參閱今天的新聞稿和我們向 SEC 提交的文件，以詳細討論與這些前瞻性陳述相關的風險因素。請注意，本次電話會議包含的信息僅截至今天為止可能是準確的。非公認會計原則財務指標與最直接可比的公認會計原則指標的調節包含在新聞稿和今天提交的 8-K 表格中的補充信息中。

Both the press release and the supplemental information are available on our IR website at investors.simon.com. Our conference call today will be limited to 1 hour. (Operator Instructions). I'm pleased to introduce David Simon.

新聞稿和補充信息均可在我們的投資者關係網站 Investors.simon.com 上獲取。我們今天的電話會議時間僅限 1 小時。 （操作員說明）。我很高興介紹大衛·西蒙。

Good afternoon. I'm pleased to report our second quarter results. Second quarter funds from operations were $1.08 billion or $2.88 per share. I'll walk through some variances for this quarter compared to Q2 of 2022. Domestic and international operations had a very good quarter and contributed $0.08 of growth primarily driven by higher rental income, higher interest income and other income of $0.04.

下午好。我很高興地報告我們第二季度的業績。第二季度運營資金為 10.8 億美元，即每股 2.88 美元。我將介紹本季度與2022 年第二季度相比的一些差異。國內和國際業務的季度表現非常好，貢獻了0.08 美元的增長，主要是由更高的租金收入、更高的利息收入和0.04美元的其他收入推動的。

Higher interest expense cost us $0.08 in the quarter-over-quarter comparison, a $0.05 lower contribution from our other platform investments and publicly held securities compared to Q2 2022. FFO from our real estate business was $2.81 per share in the second quarter compared to $2.78 per share in the prior year period. And year-to-date, that comparison is $5.65 per share in '23 compared to $5.58 in '22.

與2022 年第二季度相比，利息費用增加了0.08 美元，與2022 年第二季度相比，我們其他平台投資和公開持有證券的貢獻減少了0.05 美元。第二季度我們房地產業務的FFO 為每股2.81 美元，而第二季度為每股2.78 美元上一年期間每股。今年迄今為止，23 年的每股收益為 5.65 美元，而 22 年的每股收益為 5.58 美元。

Our real estate business is performing ahead of our plan and overcoming the headwinds from higher interest expense, and we're also pleased with our OPI results in the quarter and continue to expect the business to meet our original 2023 guidance we provided at the beginning of the year. We believe the market value of our OPI platform is approximately $3.5 billion or roughly $10 per share. We generated $1.2 billion in free cash flow in the quarter and $2.1 billion year-to-date.

我們的房地產業務的表現超出了我們的計劃，並克服了利息支出增加帶來的不利影響，我們對本季度的OPI 業績也感到滿意，並繼續期望該業務能夠達到我們在2023 年初提供的最初的2023年指導。那一年。我們認為 OPI 平台的市值約為 35 億美元，即每股約 10 美元。本季度我們創造了 12 億美元的自由現金流，今年迄今創造了 21 億美元的自由現金流。

Domestic property NOI increased 3.3% quarter-over-quarter and 3.6% for the first half of the year. Portfolio NOI, which includes our international properties at constant currency grew 3.7% for the quarter and 3.8% for the first half of the year. Our mall and outlet occupancy at the end of the second quarter was 94.7%, an increase of 80 basis points compared to the prior year. The mills occupancy was 97.3%, and TRG was 93.7%. Average base minimum rent for the malls and outlets was $56.27 per foot, an increase of 3.1% year-over-year.

國內房地產NOI環比增長3.3%，上半年增長3.6%。投資組合 NOI（包括按固定匯率計算的國際物業）本季度增長 3.7%，上半年增長 3.8%。截至第二季度末，我們的購物中心和奧特萊斯入住率為 94.7%，比去年同期增長 80 個基點。工廠的入住率為 97.3%，TRG 的入住率為 93.7%。購物中心和奧特萊斯的平均基本最低租金為每英尺 56.27 美元，同比增長 3.1%。

This is an all-time high for our [BMR] and the mills rent increased 4.3% to an all-time high of $36.02 per foot. Leasing momentum continued across our portfolio, we signed more than 1,300 leases for more than [5] million square feet for the quarter, and we're up to 11 million square feet year-to-date. We have a 1,100 deals in our pipeline, including renewals for approximately $470 million in occupancy cost.

這是我們的 [BMR] 的歷史新高，工廠租金上漲 4.3%，達到每英尺 36.02 美元的歷史新高。我們的投資組合繼續保持租賃勢頭，本季度我們簽署了 1,300 多份租賃合同，租賃面積超過 [5]000 萬平方英尺，今年迄今已達到 1100 萬平方英尺。我們正在醞釀 1,100 筆交易，其中包括約 4.7 億美元入住成本的續約。

More than 30% of our total lease activity in the first half of the year was new deal volume. We continue to see strong broad-based demand from the retail community across many categories. Reported retail sales per square foot in the second quarter was $747 per foot for our malls and outlets.

上半年我們總租賃活動的 30% 以上是新交易量。我們繼續看到零售界在許多類別上的強勁廣泛需求。據報告，第二季度我們的購物中心和奧特萊斯每平方英尺零售額為 747 美元。

The mills at [$677] per foot. We also hosted our second annual National Outlet Shopping Day in June, was very successful for shoppers and participating retailers. We generated more than 3 million shopper visits over that weekend, feedback has been great. There we were also excited to continue to build on this annual event, and we expect it to continue to get bigger and bigger each year.

工廠的價格為每英尺 [677 美元]。我們還在六月舉辦了第二屆年度全國奧特萊斯購物日，對於購物者和參與零售商來說非常成功。那個週末我們吸引了超過 300 萬的購物者訪問，反饋非常好。我們也很高興能夠繼續推動這一年度活動，並期望它每年都變得越來越大。

Turning to the balance sheet. We completed the refinancing of 9 property mortgages during the first half of the year for a total of 820 million at an average rate of 6%. Our balance sheet is strong. We have $8.8 billion of liquidity. Today, we're proud to announce our dividend of $1.90 per share for the third quarter. That's a year-over-year increase of 8.6% The dividend will be payable on September 29th.

轉向資產負債表。上半年完成9筆房產抵押貸款再融資，總額8.2億，平均利率6%。我們的資產負債表強勁。我們有 88 億美元的流動資金。今天，我們自豪地宣布第三季度每股股息為 1.90 美元。同比增長 8.6% 股息將於 9 月 29 日支付。

We have now paid over $40 billion in dividends since we've been public. We're increasing our full year guidance of 2023 from $11.80 per share to $11.95 per share to $11.85 and respectively, $11.95 per share. This is an increase of $0.05 at the bottom end of the range and $0.02 at the midpoint.

自上市以來，我們現已支付了超過 400 億美元的股息。我們將 2023 年全年指導方針從每股 11.80 美元上調至每股 11.95 美元，分別上調至每股 11.85 美元和每股 11.95 美元。範圍底部增加了 0.05 美元，中間增加了 0.02 美元。

Now let me give you food for thought.

現在讓我給你一些思考。

If I may, we have built a world-class portfolio over a long period of time since we've been public. Following our the [Barnello] transaction in 1996, our portfolio consisted of 119 malls and 65 strip centers, primarily in the Midwest. Since then, we have acquired 220 properties, develop more than 50 and disposed of approximately 250 properties. Of the original, 184 properties in 1996, 37 remain in our portfolio today. So our high productive portfolio is a result of constant asset rotation.

如果可以的話，自上市以來的很長一段時間內，我們已經建立了世界一流的投資組合。 1996 年完成 [Barnello] 交易後，我們的投資組合包括 119 個購物中心和 65 個購物中心，主要位於中西部。自那時起，我們已收購了 220 處房產，開發了 50 多處房產，並處置了約 250 處房產。在 1996 年最初的 184 處房產中，現在有 37 處保留在我們的投資組合中。因此，我們的高生產率投資組合是持續資產輪換的結果。

Finally, let me conclude by saying our business is performing well and is ahead of our internal plan. Tenant demand is excellent, occupancy is increasing, base mineral rents are at record levels, property NOI is growing and again beating our internal expectations that we set at the beginning of the year, and we are now operator, ready for your questions.

最後，我想說的是，我們的業務表現良好，並且超出了我們的內部計劃。租戶需求良好，入住率不斷增加，基本礦產租金達到創紀錄水平，房產 NOI 不斷增長，再次超出了我們在年初設定的內部預期，我們現在是運營商，隨時準備回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) And our first question comes from the line of Mr. Steve Sakwa with Evercore ISI.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 Evercore ISI 的 Steve Sakwa 先生。

I just wanted to follow up on your leasing comments in the pipeline, everything sounds really good and maybe even getting better as the year unfolds. So where do you ultimately think that occupancy -- in kind of the mall portfolio can ultimately settle out? And are you seeing an accelerating trend in pricing power across the portfolio?

我只是想跟進您正在醞釀中的租賃評論，一切聽起來都非常好，甚至可能隨著時間的推移而變得更好。那麼，您最終認為購物中心投資組合的佔用率最終會在哪裡解決？您是否看到整個投資組合的定價能力呈加速趨勢？

Steve, first of all, I think we'll be north of 95% by year-end. And I want to be -- I don't like the word pricing power so much. I think our asset rotation that I mentioned earlier, has allowed us to create kind of a portfolio that's really unrivaled in our industry. And given our strong tenant relationships, we're in a good spot to find kind of the win-win that needs to happen when you lease as much space as we do.

史蒂夫，首先，我認為到年底我們的目標將超過 95%。我想——我不太喜歡定價權這個詞。我認為我之前提到的資產輪換使我們能夠創建在我們行業中真正無與倫比的投資組合。鑑於我們牢固的租戶關係，當您租用與我們一樣多的空間時，我們處於有利位置，可以實現雙贏。

The physical environment in terms of bricks-and-mortar sales is as important as ever. That's been reinforced by essentially every retailer and anyone that's in the e-commerce business all looked to that. I think there was obviously a long period of time where many felt -- many of the [opponents] felt that bricks and mortar just don't matter. That's the furthest thing from the truth. So we continue to think our rollover by and large, is going to be positive. And we have the ability now with new tenant demand to replace retailers that aren't producing sales and which will allow us to generate higher rents. So I do think we're pushing up rents. I think we're doing it hopefully thoughtfully by and large, and we expect that trend to continue.

實體銷售的物理環境一如既往地重要。幾乎所有零售商和電子商務行業的任何人都在關注這一點，這都強化了這一點。我認為顯然在很長一段時間內，許多人都認為——許多[反對者]認為磚塊和砂漿並不重要。這與事實相去甚遠。因此，我們仍然認為總體而言我們的展期將是積極的。我們現在有能力根據新的租戶需求來取代那些沒有產生銷售的零售商，這將使我們能夠產生更高的租金。所以我確實認為我們正在推高租金。我認為我們總體上是經過深思熟慮地這樣做的，並且我們預計這種趨勢將繼續下去。

And our next question comes from the line of Ms. Caitlin Burrows with Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的凱特琳·伯羅斯女士。

David, you gave those details on the asset rotation since 1996. So I guess that's making me wonder, and I'm guessing everybody else. Should that be a suggestion to us that you're looking to get more active in asset recycling kind of near-term, medium-term acquisitions, dispositions? Or was that just more a comment on kind of the Simon historical strategy?

David，您提供了自 1996 年以來資產輪換的詳細信息。所以我想這讓我感到好奇，我猜其他人也是如此。這是否意味著您希望更加積極地進行資產回收（例如短期、中期收購、處置）？或者這只是對西蒙歷史策略的一種評論？

Well, I would say we've been very active, right? So I think because of our size, it does get lost in translation that we're always recycling, always looking to improve the quality of the portfolio. So I would think our trend would continue in that sense, and we'll always recycle assets. We find to the extent that we can do that and generate more liquidity. We find our not just -- it's every asset that we have to the extent that we think there's a good trade to do, whether it's to sell or to buy, we're going to pursue that.

嗯，我想說我們一直非常活躍，對吧？因此，我認為由於我們的規模，它確實在翻譯中丟失了，我們總是在回收，總是在尋求提高投資組合的質量。所以我認為我們的趨勢將繼續從這個意義上說，我們將永遠回收資產。我們發現我們可以做到這一點並產生更多的流動性。我們不僅發現我們擁有的每一項資產，只要我們認為有一筆好的交易可以做，無論是出售還是購買，我們都會追求這一點。

And I think it's been an important component of our success over time. At the same time, we've done it, as we all know, we've done it in a way where others have done it in a way to generate the quickest short-term returns through a lot of leverage. We've done it as thoughtfully in terms of maintaining the balance sheet as anyone.

我認為，隨著時間的推移，這是我們成功的重要組成部分。同時，我們也做到了，眾所周知，我們採用的方式是其他人採用的方式，通過大量的槓桿作用產生最快的短期回報。在維護資產負債表方面，我們和其他人一樣深思熟慮。

So that's been another key component of our ability to grow yet recycle. So I don't think I'm signaling, but maybe you have these epiphany so maybe it's possible, right, that there'll be some -- we'll be more active on reallocating capital to different assets that we have today.

因此，這是我們發展和回收能力的另一個關鍵組成部分。所以我不認為我在發出信號，但也許你已經頓悟了，所以也許有可能，對吧，會有一些——我們將更加積極地將資本重新分配到我們今天擁有的不同資產。

And our next question comes from Alexander Goldfarb with Piper Sandler.

我們的下一個問題來自 Alexander Goldfarb 和 Piper Sandler。

And also thank you for moving your call to avoid an overlap. I appreciate it. So question, there was a recent press article and not that article, not -- which I'll let you opine if you want. But just talking about luxury sales. And my question is this, we all look at luxury as sort of like the ultimate, the driver of retail if you will. But my question is really, given how customer preferences have changed lifestyle, people changing how they live. Sort of curious, when you look at the tenant landscape, are there any sectors that you would say are now, I guess, going back to Caitlin's early '90s example, are there any sectors now where you're like, hey, 20, 30 years ago, this sector was nowhere and now it's 20% of retail or it's the absolute must-have.

還要感謝您轉移通話以避免重疊。我很感激。所以問題是，最近有一篇新聞文章，而不是那篇文章，不是——如果你願意的話，我可以讓你發表意見。但只是談論奢侈品銷售。我的問題是，我們都將奢侈品視為終極品，如果你願意的話，它是零售業的驅動力。但我的問題是，考慮到客戶偏好如何改變了生活方式，人們改變了他們的生活方式。有點好奇，當你觀察租戶格局時，你會說現在有哪些部門，我想，回到凱特琳 90 年代早期的例子，現在有沒有你會說的部門，嘿，20 歲， 30 年前，這個領域還無人問津，而現在它佔零售業的20%，或者說它是絕對的必備品。

And I'm just sort of curious if luxury is still sort of that dominant place in retail or if it's more niche and it works in certain malls, but for the bulk of what really drives your cash flow to bottom line, maybe it's other sectors. I'm just trying to understand how the face of retail has changed using your analogy of over the past 30 years, what the company looked like then in the Midwest versus now?

我只是有點好奇奢侈品是否仍然在零售業中佔據主導地位，或者它是否更小眾並且在某些購物中心有效，但對於真正推動現金流達到底線的大部分因素，也許是其他行業。我只是想用你過去 30 年的類比來了解零售業的面貌發生了怎樣的變化，當時中西部的公司與現在相比是什麼樣子？

Yes. Look, I would say unquestionably, the -- some of the best retailers in the world like a Caring or an LVMH group, have the best brands. And they do the most volume. They build the best stores. They think longer term over -- longer term over any retailer that we've ever experienced, they're true to their business. So we admire what they do. We admire how they build their brand. We admire how they maintained their brand.

是的。看，我毫無疑問地說，世界上一些最好的零售商，如 Caring 或 LVMH 集團，擁有最好的品牌。他們的產量最大。他們建造最好的商店。與我們經歷過的任何零售商相比，他們的眼光更長遠，他們忠於自己的業務。所以我們很欽佩他們的所作所為。我們欽佩他們如何打造自己的品牌。我們欽佩他們如何維護自己的品牌。

They have loyal customers so there's no better companies to do business with that believe, and we aspire to be more like them than anything. And I think how they maintain their stores and how they treat their customers and how they're true to themselves. So the luxury business is here to stay. It's growing. It's really important. It's worldwide.

他們擁有忠實的客戶，因此沒有更好的公司可以與他們開展業務，而我們渴望成為更像他們的人。我認為他們如何維護商店、如何對待顧客以及如何忠於自己。因此，奢侈品行業將繼續存在。它正在增長。這真的很重要。它是全世界的。

It's a great consumer that loves physical retail that wants to go shop and do other things at the -- at our centers. So we want to do as much business as we can with them. They're still very focused. Obviously, sales have flattened a little bit compared to Q2 of '22. And -- but if you look at where they are and Tom and Brian, I don't know off the top of my head, Alex, but they can -- where 20%, 30%, 40% above where we were in '19, but I don't remember the exact number, but they can give it to you later. So one of the interesting things is LVMH group, and I really -- if you look at our 8-K, there -- they're now our top -- in our top 10 tenants.

這是一個熱愛實體零售、想要在我們的中心購物和做其他事情的偉大消費者。因此，我們希望與他們開展盡可能多的業務。他們還是很專注。顯然，與 22 年第二季度相比，銷售額略有下降。而且 - 但如果你看看他們在哪裡，湯姆和布萊恩，我不知道，亞歷克斯，但他們可以 - 比我們當時的水平高出 20%、30%、40% ' 19，但我不記得確切的數字，但他們稍後可以給你。因此，有趣的事情之一是 LVMH 集團，我真的 - 如果你看看我們的 8-K，那裡 - 他們現在是我們的頂級 - 在我們的前 10 名租戶中。

We couldn't be more proud of that relationship and the brands that they have. So this is not a niche business. This is a growing business. It's for exactly the affluent shopper, the established shopper, but also the affluent shopper. And the fact that we're -- we do so much business with them is something that we're extremely proud of, and we will -- I don't like the word lean in, but we will do as much as we can to continue to foster those relationships.

我們為這種關係和他們擁有的品牌感到無比自豪。所以這不是一個利基業務。這是一項不斷增長的業務。它不僅適合富裕的購物者、成熟的購物者，而且也適合富裕的購物者。事實上，我們與他們做瞭如此多的業務，這是我們非常自豪的事情，我們會的，我不喜歡“精益求精”這個詞，但我們會盡我們所能繼續促進這些關係。

And that is a huge differentiating point that we have at Simon Property Group. So if all systems go there, yes, sales will flatten, they'll go up, they'll go down, but their commitment to their customer and what they do in their stores, I think, goes unabated. And -- and they really -- I admire the fact that they take -- they're not a quarter-to-quarter company, they take a much longer view of their brand and where they want to plant their flag and how they want to treat their customers.

這是西蒙地產集團的一個巨大的差異化點。因此，如果所有系統都在那裡，是的，銷售額將會持平，它們會上升，它們會下降，但我認為他們對客戶的承諾以及他們在商店中所做的事情絲毫沒有減弱。而且 - 他們真的 - 我欽佩他們採取的事實 - 他們不是一家季度對季度的公司，他們對自己的品牌以及他們想在哪裡插旗以及他們想要的方式有更長遠的看法對待他們的顧客。

So well, they are true partners and great generally across the board, we love doing business with them. And it's not a niche and that business is growing. It's growing worldwide. And in fact, if anything, we'd like to follow kind of where they're headed because we think there's great business to do together.

好吧，他們是真正的合作夥伴，而且總體上都很出色，我們喜歡與他們做生意。這不是一個利基市場，而且業務正在增長。它正在全球範圍內增長。事實上，如果有什麼不同的話，我們想追隨他們的發展方向，因為我們認為可以共同開展偉大的業務。

And our next question comes from the line of Vince Tibone with Green Street.

我們的下一個問題來自文斯·蒂伯恩和格林街的台詞。

Could you discuss the current [thread] between leased and physical occupancy? And then kind of the cadence and what visibility -- store openings for leases that have been executed, but are not yet open.

您能否討論一下租賃和實際佔用之間的當前[線程]？然後是節奏和可見性——已執行但尚未開業的租賃店開業。

So Vince, it's Brian. We're still hovering right around 200 basis points of unopened. That ebbs and flows, as you might imagine, every month, given the velocity of our business. We do think we're going to carry that through year-end. And certainly, we do expect that we are going to continue to see openings throughout the balance of the year as retailers open later this month and into September and October.

文斯，是布萊恩。我們仍徘徊在未開倉價格 200 個基點左右。正如您想像的那樣，考慮到我們業務的發展速度，每個月都會有起起落落。我們確實認為我們會將其延續到年底。當然，我們確實預計，隨著零售商在本月晚些時候以及 9 月和 10 月開業，我們將在今年餘下的時間裡繼續看到新店開業。

And I would say -- I would say just a follow up on that, Vince, is that a lot of the business that we have signed leases on and/or about to be signed is still, and I don't -- I mean, we can give you the exact number. I'll have it again, at the top of my -- at the top of my tongue but -- at the tip of my tongue. But there is a lot of the business that we've signed or about to be signed is really '24 and even '25 business. And especially when we're in the -- we're talking to restaurant business, you're talking 9 months build-out, you're talking permits that are required to get -- it's a little more complicated, getting restaurant permits, liquor license, et cetera, we've got some great restaurants going into form Crystal, Stanford, [Voca].

我想說 - 我想說的是，文斯，我們已經簽署租約和/或即將簽署的許多業務仍然存在，但我沒有 - 我的意思是，我們可以給您確切的數字。我會再次擁有它，在我的頂部 - 在我的舌頭頂部但是 - 在我的舌尖。但我們已經簽署或即將簽署的很多業務實際上是“24”甚至“25”業務。尤其是當我們在談論餐廳業務時，你談論的是 9 個月的擴建，你談論的是獲得餐廳許可證所需的許可證，這有點複雜，獲得餐廳許可證，酒類許可證等等，我們有一些很棒的餐廳，比如Crystal、Stanford、[Voca]。

But you're literally talking about a year to get permitted, get opened. To some extent, some of this was delayed also with just equipment because of the COVID and the -- all of the supply chain issues associated with it. So -- and again, when you're talking about our full price business, build-outs are longer than the outlet or the mills business.

但你實際上是在談論一年的時間來獲得許可、開放。在某種程度上，由於新冠疫情以及與之相關的所有供應鏈問題，其中一些工作也因設備而被推遲。所以，再一次，當你談論我們的全價業務時，擴建業務比直銷店或工廠業務更長。

So the pipe on that sense is pretty good and not -- which is not in these numbers, but we also, on that front, have boxes that are scheduled to open in '24, '25, that is obviously a serious long time a year-plus build-out. A lot of business with Dick's, Primark, Lifetime Fitness, et cetera, that even Barneys is doing new deals.

因此，從這個意義上說，管道相當好，但不是——這不在這些數字中，但在這方面，我們也有計劃在 24 年、25 年開放的盒子，這顯然是一個很長的時間一年多的建設。與 Dick's、Primark、Lifetime Fitness 等有很多生意，甚至 Barneys 也在做新的交易。

We're building a new store with Kohl's -- stuff that just takes time (inaudible) that shields, et cetera, even though they just recently opened in Wichita to a great opening, which is 1 of our 37, by the way, just for a fun fact. So the build-out is frustrating in that it does take time, but it's -- so we still expect some really interesting things to happen in '24, '25 as these tenants open. And remember, in a lot of cases, the more interesting the retailer, the longer the build-out, there is a correlation there.

我們正在與 Kohl's 一起建造一家新店——這些東西只是需要時間（聽不清）來屏蔽等等，儘管他們最近剛剛在威奇托開業，這是我們 37 家中的一家，順便說一句，只是一個有趣的事實。因此，擴建是令人沮喪的，因為它確實需要時間，但它是 - 所以我們仍然期望在 24 年、25 年這些租戶開業時會發生一些非常有趣的事情。請記住，在很多情況下，零售商越感興趣，擴建時間越長，其中存在相關性。

Yes. It makes sense. That's all really helpful color. I appreciate that. My next question, I was hoping you could discuss how demand today is by retail format and geography. I'd be curious to hear any in between malls and outlets and also between gateway markets and suburban centers.

是的。這說得通。這都是非常有用的顏色。我很感激。我的下一個問題是，我希望您能討論一下當今零售業態和地理位置的需求情況。我很想知道購物中心和奧特萊斯之間以及門戶市場和郊區中心之間的情況。

Simply, I thought as I go back in time, I think the -- and I'm trying to go through COVID, I think the demand in the outlet business has picked up more -- it was slower to pick up than the mall business. And I think it's finally picked up to kind of where the mall business has been. So I think demand from a product type is kind of even now. And that's not to say malls has slowed down. It's just -- the outlet took a little bit longer to pick back up. Mills was somewhat unabated in that. And as you know, it's a combination of any and all. Regionally, by and large, the super regional suburban sites are -- have a high level of interest across the board.

簡單地說，我想，當我回到過去時，我認為——我正在努力度過新冠疫情，我認為直銷業務的需求回升得更多——它比購物中心業務的回升速度要慢。我認為它終於恢復到了購物中心業務的水平。所以我認為即使是現在，產品類型的需求也是如此。這並不是說購物中心的發展速度已經放緩。只是——出口花了更長的時間才恢復元氣。米爾斯在這方面絲毫沒有減弱。如您所知，它是任何一個和所有的組合。從區域來看，總體而言，超級區域郊區站點具有廣泛的興趣。

We don't have a lot of city center stuff. So it's -- we're not the right guy to ask. But I am happy that our portfolio was positioned in the -- high catchment areas in the suburbs. And then finally, regionally, as you might imagine, where you're seeing population growth, Texas, Tennessee, Florida, those kind of places are seeing a little bit more of the outsized demand. But again, in real estate, you could still have the best location in kind of a micro environment that does unbelievably well because it still is the center of attention.

我們沒有太多市中心的東西。所以我們不是問這個問題的合適人選。但我很高興我們的投資組合位於郊區的高集水區。最後，正如你想像的那樣，在區域上，你會看到人口增長，德克薩斯州、田納西州、佛羅里達州，這些地方的需求量更大。但同樣，在房地產領域，你仍然可以在微觀環境中擁有最佳位置，效果令人難以置信，因為它仍然是關注的焦點。

So you got to be careful on these geographic trends one way or another. It really is, as we all know, real estate is very location oriented. But I would say those are just kind of generic trends hasn't changed all that much, but the suburbs continue to be as we said a few years ago, well ahead of most, we still felt like that was the place to be. And we're happy to see that not that we make a lot of predictions, but we're happy to see that prediction, at least one of them came true.

因此，您必須以某種方式小心這些地理趨勢。眾所周知，房地產確實是非常注重位置的。但我想說，這些只是一般趨勢，並沒有發生太大變化，但郊區仍然像我們幾年前所說的那樣，遠遠領先於大多數地區，我們仍然覺得那是應該去的地方。我們很高興看到，並不是我們做出了很多預測，而是我們很高興看到該預測，至少其中一個成為了現實。

Our next question is from Ronald Kamdem with Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的羅納德·卡姆德姆。

Great. Just one quick one. Just thinking about the growth function of the business. You talk about getting to 95% occupancy by the end of the year. Obviously, that annualizes in 2024. So when I think about the occupancy boost, the rent bumps, re-leasing spreads, it doesn't seem like a stretch to get to a 3% plus number next year in growth. So I'm trying to understand what are some of the moving pieces we should be thinking about as we're building out the growth function of the business in '24?

偉大的。就快一點吧。只是考慮業務的增長功能。您談到到今年年底入住率要達到 95%。顯然，這一數字將在 2024 年按年計算。因此，當我考慮到入住率增長、租金上漲、再租賃價差時，明年的增長達到 3% 以上似乎並不困難。因此，我試圖了解當我們在 24 年構建業務增長功能時，我們應該考慮哪些變化因素？

Well, I think it's all of the likely suspects. It's lease-up, it's renewal spreads, it's new business, Obviously, it's overage or percent sales and sales activity. So there's nothing new there. I mean it's all the stuff that has allowed us to grow our comp NOI over a long period of time through a lot of volatility, COVID -- real estate recessions, e-commerce, proliferation of this that and the other.

嗯，我想這就是所有可能的嫌疑人。它是租賃，它是續約價差，它是新業務，顯然，它是超額或百分比銷售和銷售活動。所以那裡沒有什麼新東西。我的意思是，正是這些因素讓我們能夠在很長一段時間內通過大量的波動、新冠疫情——房地產衰退、電子商務、這個等等的擴散來增長我們的公司NOI。

So it's all of those likely suspects. I mean I think we feel generally positive about our ability to grow comp NOI. But it's all the likely suspects and it's all the same metrics that we have to produce to generate that. And we still have the ability, even as we get up to 95%, thereabouts, we still have the ability to -- which we can't lose sight of, we have the ability to replace retailers with better ones that will just common sense -- we'll be able to pay higher rent because they'll be more productive.

所以這就是所有可能的嫌疑人。我的意思是，我認為我們對提高公司 NOI 的能力總體上持積極態度。但這是所有可能的嫌疑點，並且我們必須生成相同的指標來生成這些嫌疑點。我們仍然有能力，即使我們達到了 95%，我們仍然有能力——我們不能忽視這一點，我們有能力用更好的零售商取代零售商，這只是常識——我們將能夠支付更高的租金，因為他們的生產力更高。

It's really that simple. So -- but Ron, it's all the same stuff. And -- and we're focused on hitting all of those cylinders certainly to finish this year, but also in '24, '25. And the added benefit that we have in '24, '25 is that we've got a lot in the pipeline that will finally open.

真的就是這麼簡單。所以——但是羅恩，都是一樣的東西。而且 - 我們的重點是在今年完成所有這些目標，而且還要在 24 年、25 年完成。我們在 24 年、25 年獲得的額外好處是，我們有很多正在醞釀中的項目最終將開放。

And Our next question comes from the line of Floris Van Dijkum with Compass Point.

我們的下一個問題來自 Floris Van Dijkum 與 Compass Point 的系列。

I had -- unfortunately, I have to limit it to one. So I won't focus on the North of less important OPI stuff. But maybe if you can talk a little bit more about the 200 basis points of sign-on open. Presumably, that's higher in your mall portfolio than your outlets? And maybe if you could also quantify in terms of dollar amount or NOI impact I know that a lot of those leases and that So, there's a lot of luxury tenants, which typically pay significantly higher rents. So presumably, it has a greater impact on your NOI and ABR than your -- than the percentage just in terms of occupancy?

不幸的是，我不得不將其限制為一個。所以我不會關注北方不太重要的 OPI 內容。但也許您可以多談談登錄開放的 200 個基點。想必，這在您的購物中心投資組合中比您的直營店更高？也許如果你也可以用美元金額或 NOI 影響來量化，我知道很多這樣的租賃，所以，有很多豪華租戶，他們通常支付高得多的租金。因此，據推測，它對您的 NOI 和 ABR 的影響比僅就佔用率而言的影響更大？

Look, we don't want to get into that level of detail. We certainly will for '24 as we outlined what our comp NOI growth is. But you're 100% right that the -- it is much easier and quicker to open an outlet store. The build-out can be anywhere between 30 and 90 days and the mall generally can be 6 months plus. And then when you get to complicated tenants or where the build-out is expensive, you're talking 9 months plus restaurants in that area.

聽著，我們不想深入討論這個細節。我們當然會在 24 年實現這一目標，因為我們概述了公司 NOI 的增長情況。但你說得 100% 正確——開一家直銷店要容易得多、快捷得多。擴建時間可能在 30 到 90 天之間，而購物中心通常需要 6 個月以上。然後，當您遇到復雜的租戶或擴建費用昂貴時，您所說的是該地區的 9 個月以上的餐廳。

So -- but we do -- and it goes back to, I think, Floris, you were you were one of the original analyst that was very focused on when we're going to get back to '19 levels. And I'm happy to say that we will be back -- we better be back, okay, but we will be back in -- there in '24. And a lot of that really at the end of this year, we annualize it -- so it really is a function of getting those retailers open. But the specific numbers, I mean, I'll if the guys want to talk offline and go through it, I'm certainly happy to do that. But that's -- I think it's better answered as we go through '24 our comp NOI plan with you early next year.

所以 - 但我們確實如此 - 我想，弗洛里斯，你是最初的分析師之一，非常關注我們何時回到 19 年的水平。我很高興地說我們會回來的——我們最好回來，好吧，但我們會回來的——24 年。其中很多實際上是在今年年底，我們將其按年計算 - 所以這確實是讓這些零售商開業的一個功能。但具體數字，我的意思是，如果大家想線下交談並進行討論，我當然很樂意這樣做。但這是——我認為當我們明年初與您一起討論 '24 我們的 comp NOI 計劃時，這個問題會得到更好的回答。

And our next question comes from the line of Jeff Spector with Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自傑夫·斯佩克特與美國銀行的對話。

A follow-up question, David, on your comment on potentially allocating to money or investments into other assets. I mean, you've been doing that really since world financial crisis, investing in the best properties.

大衛，一個後續問題，關於您對可能分配給金錢或投資於其他資產的評論。我的意思是，自世界金融危機以來，您一直在這樣做，投資最好的房產。

You've been densifying assets with apartments, et cetera. Is there anything else that you're thinking of changing that you've noticed a change, let's say, between the difference in the assets you own or what you're seeing out in the retail landscape? Or really sticking with those programs as well?

您一直在通過公寓等來密集化資產。您是否正在考慮改變其他任何您注意到的變化，比如說，您擁有的資產或您在零售領域看到的差異？或者真的堅持這些計劃？

I think, Jeff, we're going to more or less stick to our programs, but what we've done historically, I think it's been the right strategy. We'll nick and nack, I mean, we're -- we've had good experience by and large, not perfect, but good experience experimenting here and there. But our core business is high-quality retail real estate. We're not moving away from that by any stretch of the imagination.

我認為，傑夫，我們或多或少會堅持我們的計劃，但從我們歷史上所做的來看，我認為這是正確的策略。我們會尼克和納克，我的意思是，我們——總的來說，我們有很好的經驗，雖然不是完美的，但到處都有很好的實驗經驗。但我們的核心業務是高品質的零售房地產。我們無論如何也不會偏離這一點。

We have lots of levers in that category to pull in terms of how we want to allocate capital. Do we want to put more here versus there, do we want to sell this and reinvest that -- so I think that -- if I had the ability to express it -- we think about that all of the time.

在這一類別中，我們有很多槓桿可以用來決定我們如何分配資本。我們是否想在這裡投入更多而不是在那裡，我們是否想出售這個並重新投資那個 - 所以我認為 - 如果我有能力表達它 - 我們一直在考慮這個問題。

That's -- we never really talk about it. But as we -- the sole purpose of going through that asset rotation was to tell you that we do think about this stuff all the time. And beyond just think about it, we actually do stuff about it. So -- and sometimes communicating that to investors and analysts is important to know that we're going to reallocate capital where we think the growth is, and we're not afraid to sell or buy or hold or whatever kind of we think is the right thing to do. So that's really it. I wouldn't make -- this is not like -- we're not trying to like here we go, something is big around the corner. It's just -- we do -- we've done this, and we just wanted to point it out.

那是——我們從來沒有真正談論過它。但我們進行資產輪換的唯一目的是告訴大家，我們確實一直在考慮這些問題。除了思考之外，我們實際上還做了一些事情。因此，有時向投資者和分析師傳達這一點很重要，因為他們知道我們將在我們認為增長的地方重新分配資本，並且我們不害怕出售、購買或持有或我們認為是增長的任何類型。正確的做法。就是這樣。我不會——這不是——我們不想喜歡這樣，有什麼大事即將發生。只是——我們確實——我們已經做到了這一點，我們只是想指出這一點。

And our next question comes from the line of Mike Mueller with JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自邁克·穆勒 (Mike Mueller) 與摩根大通 (JPMorgan) 的對話。

Can you give us a sense as to how rent spreads compare when you move from the mall and outlet portfolio to TRG to the mills?

您能給我們介紹一下，當您從購物中心和奧特萊斯投資組合轉移到 TRG 到工廠時，租金差異如何？

Well, I don't want to really talk about TRG so much, but I would say the spreads are -- when you look at mills, outlets and malls, it's all pretty decent. We still see -- our occupancy cost now is around 12%, right? So we're feeling better about our ability to generate positive rent spreads. It's not always going to happen on every space in every mall or outlet, but we're seeing it pretty much across the board.

好吧，我不想過多談論 TRG，但我想說的是，當你看看工廠、奧特萊斯和購物中心時，它們的價差都相當不錯。我們仍然看到——我們的入住成本現在約為 12%，對吧？因此，我們對產生正租金利差的能力感覺更好了。這種情況並不總是會發生在每個購物中心或折扣店的每個空間，但我們幾乎在所有地方都看到了這種情況。

And as again, I would say to you from what might shift is where I thought our outlet business was a little slower coming out of COVID. We're seeing a much better pickup over the last year or so there. And so -- we're optimistic that, that's going to continue as well.

再說一次，我想對你們說的是，我認為我們的奧特萊斯業務因新冠疫情而放緩一些。與過去一年左右的時間相比，我們看到了更好的回升。因此，我們樂觀地認為，這種情況也將繼續下去。

And our next question comes from the line of Michael Goldsmith with UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的邁克爾·戈德史密斯。

In your opening remarks, you talked about the deals in the pipeline and that 30% of lease activity in the first half was new deal volume. How does that compare to the past? And what does this indicate? Does this indicate that there is greater interest for new concepts to -- that are interested in leasing or what -- or is there some other meaning behind this data point that you provided?

在您的開場白中，您談到了正在醞釀中的交易，以及上半年租賃活動的 30% 是新交易量。與過去相比如何？這說明了什麼？這是否表明人們對新概念更感興趣——對租賃或其他什麼感興趣——或者您提供的這個數據點背後是否還有其他含義？

I just think it -- most importantly, it reinforces the importance of our product and it reinforces how retailers feel about our -- the mall and the outlet business. So it's a great sign. I mean it's a great sign that we have new concepts. And I would say, generally, the 30% has really developed over the last, say, 2 months and whether it's direct-to-consumer, whether it's the luxury, whether it's a restaurant business, whether it's entertainment, we're seeing entertainment pickup like we did pre-COVID.

我只是認為——最重要的是，它強化了我們產品的重要性，並強化了零售商對我們——購物中心和直銷業務的看法。所以這是一個很好的跡象。我的意思是，這是一個很好的跡象，表明我們有了新概念。我想說，總的來說，這 30% 在過去，比如說 2 個月裡確實得到了發展，無論是直接面向消費者、奢侈品、餐飲業、娛樂業，我們都看到了娛樂業就像我們在新冠疫情之前那樣取貨。

So I think it's a testament to the product, the new retailers that want to open new stores in our existing product is a great sign and a great testament. And that level is certainly much higher than I've seen since -- I mean, it goes -- I'm going to say almost 7, 8 years because the 2020 -- I'm sorry, 2019, we probably didn't have that level of percentage of new tenants. So it's clearly higher than it was in the '19, '18 '17 level, and it kind of goes back to where we were in the '14, '15, '16 level. So it's a good sign for sure.

所以我認為這是對產品的證明，新的零售商想要在我們現有的產品中開設新商店是一個很好的標誌，也是一個很好的證明。這個水平肯定比我所見過的要高得多——我的意思是，它是這樣的——我會說幾乎7、8年，因為2020年——對不起，2019年，我們可能沒有有這樣的新租戶百分比水平。因此，它顯然高於“19”、“18”、“17”的水平，並且有點回到了“14”、“15”、“16”的水平。所以這肯定是一個好兆頭。

And our next question is from Juan Sanabria with BMO Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 BMO 資本市場的胡安·薩納布里亞 (Juan Sanabria)。

Two-part question. One, it looks like there's a $0.10 or $0.11 gain in the P&L. Just curious if you could talk a little bit about what that is and if that was assumed in the guidance the prior guidance? And then secondly, if you have any comments on the prior quarter's comments on domestic property NOI of at least 3%.

兩部分的問題。第一，損益表似乎增加了 0.10 美元或 0.11 美元。只是好奇您是否可以談談這是什麼，以及之前的指南中是否假設了這一點？其次，如果您對上一季度國內房地產 NOI 至少 3% 的評論有何評論。

Let me -- no, no, no. I know that. But -- what did you say 2%?

讓我——不，不，不。我知道。但是——你說的2%是什麼？

3%.

3%。

30%. Let me start there. So -- the -- yes, we're feeling very comfortable that we'll be above the 3%. The gain -- the after-tax gain is associated with the ABG raising of capital -- primary capital, which we get diluted down. So it's a -- we have a dilution gain after tax, it was $0.07.

30%。讓我從這裡開始。所以——是的，我們對能夠超過 3% 感到非常滿意。收益——稅後收益與 ABG 籌集的資本——初級資本相關，我們將其稀釋。因此，我們有稅後稀釋收益，為 0.07 美元。

Yes, there's $0.03 of tax in the tax line, Michael, for that transaction.

是的，邁克爾，該交易的稅項中有 0.03 美元的稅。

Okay. And that wasn't in the prior guidance, I'm assuming, correct?

好的。我想這並不在之前的指導中，對嗎？

Well, we didn't -- I don't -- we give a pretty big range and really wasn't in our guidance so much to speak because that's really out of our control.

好吧，我們沒有——我沒有——我們給出了一個相當大的範圍，而且確實不在我們的指導範圍內，因為這確實超出了我們的控制範圍。

And our next question is from Greg McGinniss with Scotiabank.

我們的下一個問題來自豐業銀行的格雷格·麥金尼斯。

So a quick 2-parter on Taubman for me. NOI was down 3% from last quarter, while occupancy was up 40 basis points. Just curious what the drivers were of that decline. And then in line with your comments on asset recycling, can you remind us the process by which you would recapture the remaining 20% of that investment and whether you're planning to do so? Or maybe that's one of the assets that you might be looking to recycle?

對我來說，這是關於陶布曼的快速兩部曲。 NOI 較上季度下降 3%，而入住率則上升 40 個基點。只是好奇這種下降的驅動因素是什麼。根據您對資產回收的評論，您能否提醒我們您將如何收回剩餘 20% 的投資以及您是否打算這樣做？或者這可能是您想要回收的資產之一？

Well, I'm not going to comment on that. So there are puts and calls associated with Taubman over basically a 5-year period. They have the right to kind of slowly put 20% of their interest to us, and then we eventually have a call associated with it. So that's that. And Brian, why don't you go through the -- it really was more of a function of kind of the percent rent or overage rent that they had in Q2 of last year. But -- but you can -- do you have any other comment on it.

好吧，我不會對此發表評論。因此，基本上在 5 年期間內都有與陶布曼相關的看跌期權和看漲期權。他們有權慢慢地將 20% 的利息交給我們，然後我們最終會接到與此相關的電話。就是這樣。布萊恩，你為什麼不看一下——這實際上更多的是他們去年第二季度的租金百分比或超額租金的函數。但是——但是你可以——你對此還有什麼其他評論嗎？

Yes, Greg, that's exactly what it was. You can see on a year-to-date basis, we're still ahead, but they did have a higher percent of rent contribution in Q2 of last year than they did this year.

是的，格雷格，事情就是這樣。您可以看到，從今年迄今的情況來看，我們仍然領先，但他們去年第二季度的租金貢獻百分比確實比今年更高。

The other thing on Taubman, if you on TRG, so our FFO contribution this quarter versus last quarter is lower, and it's primarily 3 things. Number 1 is, we've got D&O insurance reimbursement in Q2 of '22. That's number one. Number 2 is we also had a land sale. And then obviously, number 3 is the higher interest expense. So there are a little more exposure to floating rate debt there. And I think the spread difference between our FFO contribution from TRG to Q2 of '22 over '23 was -- how many cents? $0.07, something like this?

關於 Taubman 的另一件事，如果你在 TRG，那麼我們本季度的 FFO 貢獻比上季度要低，這主要有 3 件事。第一是，我們在 22 年第二季度獲得了 D&O 保險報銷。這是第一。第二是我們還進行了土地出售。顯然，第三點是更高的利息支出。因此，浮動利率債務的風險敞口稍大一些。我認為我們從 TRG 到第二季度的 FFO 貢獻與 22 年和 23 年之間的利差是多少美分？ 0.07 美元，像這樣的嗎？

$0.07.

0.07 美元。

$0.07, okay? So I still remember numbers. So -- so if you go through -- so our FFO contribution from Taubman TRG where we own 80% was $0.07 lower this quarter than Q2 of last quarter of '22, okay? So that might be helpful to you. Those are the order of magnitude, if there's any details on that call Tom or Brian. But that's generally it. So we had a lower contribution. Is that the right number, Adam?

0.07 美元，好嗎？所以我還記得數字。所以，如果你仔細看一下，那麼我們擁有 80% 股份的 Taubman TRG 的 FFO 貢獻本季度比 22 年最後一個季度第二季度低了 0.07 美元，好嗎？所以這可能對你有幫助。這些都是數量級，如果有任何細節，請致電湯姆或布萊恩。但一般來說就是這樣。所以我們的貢獻較低。亞當，這個數字對嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay. Thank you. That's the right number. So there's really not much to add.

好的。謝謝。這是正確的數字。所以其實沒什麼可補充的。

And our next question comes from Haendel St. Juste with Mizuho.

我們的下一個問題來自 Mizuho 的 Haendel St. Juste。

To be technical, we're really not out there. We're actually in New York City today. So I know Indiana is configured out there, which I will not comment on, but we're actually right here. I don't know where you are right here in New York City -- we're right here in New York City.

就技術而言，我們確實不在那裡。我們今天實際上是在紐約市。所以我知道印第安納州已經在那裡配置了，我不會對此發表評論，但我們實際上就在這裡。我不知道你在紐約市的哪裡——我們就在紐約市。

I'm not too far from you. So can you talk about the outlook for retail sales in the back half of the year given the macro and the expiration of the student loan payments and what you think that will do -- or impact that will have on the business. And maybe some commentary also on year-to-date debt how that's trending and early thoughts on potential improvement on that line item in 2024?

我離你並不遠。那麼，考慮到宏觀經濟和學生貸款到期，您能否談談今年下半年零售銷售的前景，以及您認為這將產生什麼作用，或者對業務產生的影響。也許還有一些關於今年迄今債務趨勢的評論以及對該行項目 2024 年潛在改善的早期想法？

Yes. I would say we're actually optimistic on the back half of this year because comps or sales, I should say, in the second half of '22 really started to decelerate because of the -- obviously, the increase in interest rates, gas prices, inflation. So I think across the board, our comps get easier for our retailers in the second half -- so we're actually optimistic. And I think generally, the economy, as we all know, is seems to relatively stable.

是的。我想說，我們實際上對今年下半年感到樂觀，因為我應該說，22 年下半年的比較或銷售確實開始減速，因為——顯然，利率、汽油價格的上漲，通貨膨脹。所以我認為，從整體上看，下半年我們的零售商的競爭變得更加容易——所以我們實際上很樂觀。我認為總的來說，眾所周知，經濟似乎相對穩定。

Obviously, it's a very uncertain world. So anything can happen. But we're actually optimistic on sales for the second half, and we expect it to comp up on -- with respect to bad debt, we're not seeing -- I mean it continues to be lean and mean -- and it's a little more than maybe last year, but it's like -- it's still comparatively historical lows.

顯然，這是一個非常不確定的世界。所以任何事情都可能發生。但我們實際上對下半年的銷售持樂觀態度，我們預計它會彌補——就壞賬而言，我們沒有看到——我的意思是它繼續保持精簡和平均——這是一個也許比去年多一點，但它仍然是相對歷史低點。

And our next question comes from the line of Linda Tsai with Jefferies.

我們的下一個問題來自 Linda Tsai 和 Jefferies 的對話。

In terms of 3% NOI growth, is that the level you think you could sustain next year?

就 3% 的 NOI 增長而言，您認為明年可以維持這個水平嗎？

I would hope so, yes.

我希望如此，是的。

Any color around that?

周圍有什麼顏色嗎？

Not one of my qualities, but that was the most, so sink that answer that all day. Do you have another question, Linda?

這不是我的品質之一，但那是最重要的，所以整天沉迷於這個答案。琳達，你還有其他問題嗎？

Sure. I guess on Page 19, you also broke out mixed-use in franchise operations income and also the same line item for expense. Maybe just a little more color.

當然。我想在第 19 頁，您還列出了特許經營收入中的混合用途以及費用的同一行項目。也許只是多一點顏色。

Yes. I think Brian and Tom felt because we're doing -- and these are only consolidated assets -- so we have a -- we have a big franchise operation with Starbucks in terms of our -- where we franchise some Starbucks location plus, obviously, we're building hotels. And the -- and it was all lumped into the other income, other expense, and we thought instead of having all the questions on why is this number growing and this number growing? We kind of -- we just felt like it would be better to separate it. For your -- believe it or not, for your benefit.

是的。我認為布萊恩和湯姆感到因為我們正在做 - 這些只是合併資產 - 所以我們有 - 我們與星巴克有一個大型特許經營業務 - 我們特許經營一些星巴克地點，顯然， ，我們正在建造酒店。而這一切都集中在其他收入、其他支出中，我們思考的不是所有的問題：為什麼這個數字在增長，這個數字在增長？我們有點——我們只是覺得把它分開會更好。不管你信不信，為了你的利益。

And then how do we model that going forward?

那麼我們接下來如何建模呢？

Look, I think the hotel business is pretty straightforward in that -- we're building it. We have certain returns. And I think we pretty much outlined our returns in our 8-K. So I think that's pretty -- obviously, it takes time for apartments or hotels or any mixed use to stabilize. But I think that will be pretty easily. At the end of the day, the Starbucks business is not over -- it's not even material. So there is some profit embedded in there, but it's -- we view it more as an amenity that we can make some margin on.

聽著，我認為酒店業務非常簡單——我們正在建設它。我們有一定的回報。我認為我們在 8-K 中幾乎概述了我們的回報。所以我認為這很明顯，公寓、酒店或任何混合用途都需要時間才能穩定下來。但我認為這會很容易。歸根結底，星巴克的生意還沒有結束——它甚至不是什麼實質性的東西。因此，其中蘊藏著一些利潤，但我們更多地將其視為一種我們可以賺取利潤的便利設施。

And it's grown a little bit bigger than what it was historically because we took over some of the operations during COVID. And so that's not an overly material number and we can kind of give you order of magnitude of revenue and expense. The only problem this year, really some of these just came on board. So I'd say to you in '24 will be the -- kind of the first full year, and that will probably be -- we can certainly outline what it is. But the net profit is not overly important. Does that's help?

它的規模比歷史上的規模要大一些，因為我們在新冠疫情期間接管了一些業務。因此，這並不是一個過於重要的數字，我們可以為您提供收入和支出的數量級。今年唯一的問題是，其中一些確實剛剛出現。所以我想對你們說，24 年將是——第一個完整的一年，而且很可能是——我們當然可以概述它是什麼。但淨利潤並不是太重要。這有幫助嗎？

Yes.

是的。

And our next question comes from Craig Mailman with Citi.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗集團的克雷格·梅爾曼。

David, just a quick clarification on one of the earlier questions about the $0.07 net gain. You guys raised guidance here about $0.05 at the midpoint. Could you just run through if there are any other puts and takes that moved around with guidance this quarter or maybe this wasn't the sole driver, but maybe something operational, and this could have offset something else. Just trying to get a sense that was this the reason guidance went up and had this not happened, you guys would have ended up kind of lowering the range here on the margin?

David，我只是對之前有關 0.07 美元淨收益的問題之一進行快速澄清。你們在這裡提出了大約 0.05 美元的中點指導。您能否簡單介紹一下本季度指導下是否有任何其他看跌期權和看跌期權變動，或者這可能不是唯一的驅動因素，但可能是一些可操作的因素，這可能會抵消其他因素。只是想了解一下這是否是指引上升的原因，如果沒有發生這種情況，你們最終會在邊緣上降低範圍嗎？

No. I mean I think we're always pretty conservative. So we'll see how the -- we're always trying to beat and improve our numbers. I think we have as good a history of anybody to do that. And again, we always -- I know that might frustrate folks, but there's always puts and takes in a company our size.

不，我的意思是我認為我們總是相當保守。因此，我們將看到如何——我們一直在努力擊敗和提高我們的數字。我認為我們有任何人這樣做的良好歷史。再說一次，我們總是——我知道這可能會讓人們感到沮喪，但在我們這樣規模的公司裡，總會有一些變化。

I mean we have $80 billion of assets. We're not a small strip center company that's got -- there's going to be some volatility. We've got a $3.5 billion asset portfolio. But so far, this year has thrown off zero earnings, FFO essentially, it's mostly back-half -- back-end weighted. Again, we have $3.5 billion of value, market doesn't value. It's not in our earnings. I think the number to look at is our -- the number we gave you, which is our kind of FFO real estate earnings.

我的意思是我們擁有 800 億美元的資產。我們不是一家小型的地帶中心公司，會有一些波動。我們擁有 35 億美元的資產組合。但到目前為止，今年已經實現了零收益，FFO 本質上來說，主要是後半部分——後端加權。再說一次，我們有 35 億美元的價值，但市場並不重視。這不屬於我們的收入。我認為要查看的數字是我們給您的數字，這是我們的 FFO 房地產收入。

That was at 281, if I remember that was hurt by $0.08 of rising interest rates. That's 289. I think we give you comp NOI, you're going to have some volatility because of OPI. I think OPI is really simple. $3.5 billion, it's going to make $0.50, $0.60. And it's on our books for a lot less -- and again, in terms of investments and monetization and everything else associated with that, we're always going to do the right thing.

如果我記得的話，那是 281，因為利率上升 0.08 美元而受到損害。那是 289。我想我們給你的是比較 NOI，你會因為 OPI 而有一些波動。我認為 OPI 非常簡單。 35億美元，它會賺0.50美元、0.60美元。而且它在我們賬面上的價值要少得多——而且，在投資和貨幣化以及與之相關的其他一切方面，我們總是會做正確的事情。

So that's really it. I think obviously, overage rent has stabilized. So it's a little more conservative. We want to make sure we're conservative as we look at the year. If sales do grow on the back-end weighted that we think will be our overage number, which we mean we'll beat our guidance.

就是這樣。我認為顯然，超額租金已經穩定下來。所以還是比較保守一點。我們希望確保我們在看待這一年時保持保守。如果後端加權銷售額確實增長，我們認為這將是我們的超額數字，這意味著我們將超出我們的指導。

But we don't have a crystal ball, but we've been -- we've raised our guidance from the beginning of the year. That's the important thing. We've had headwinds with that rising rates went up higher than we thought -- is probably the biggest headwind. And then second, the OPI's side has been more back-end weighted than we originally anticipated.

但我們沒有水晶球，但我們從今年年初就提高了我們的指導。這才是重要的事情。我們遇到了阻力，利率上升的幅度比我們想像的要高——這可能是最大的阻力。其次，OPI 方面的後端權重比我們最初預期的要高。

And that's simple as that. The other thing to remember is -- so ABG just raised money at basically a $20 billion enterprise value because of their growth, we got -- we own 12% of the company. We got zero funds from operation contribution from them because of all of their onetime charges. We had the same situation in Penney, and that's why we are giving you this real estate FFO number, put a multiple on it.

就這麼簡單。另一件要記住的事情是——由於 ABG 的增長，我們剛剛籌集了基本上 200 億美元企業價值的資金，我們擁有該公司 12% 的股份。由於他們所有的一次性費用，我們從他們的運營貢獻中獲得的資金為零。我們在 Penney 也遇到了同樣的情況，這就是為什麼我們給您這個房地產 FFO 號碼，並在上面加上倍數。

It's too low. You're -- whatever multiple you think it is, I would add a couple of hundred basis points. It's too low then add $10 a share, and that's our NAV and then enjoy the rest of the summer. That's how I would think about it. Are you still there?

太低了。無論你認為是多少倍，我都會增加幾百個基點。它太低了，那麼每股增加 10 美元，這就是我們的資產淨值，然後享受夏天剩下的時間。我就是這麼想的。你還在嗎？

I am.

我是。

Okay. You buy that argument?

好的。你相信這個論點嗎？

We need to talk about.

我們需要談談。

All right. Thank you for listening. Okay. So I think we're out of questions, and I owe it to [Don Wood]. Now I want to tell you a story, okay? So we -- Don initially stole our 5:00 time period, so we were not very happy and we said we'll do it together. And then I said, you know what, we're -- we loved Don, we want to be friendly. So not only did we move our time, but we gave Don the option of whether he wanted to do 4:30 or 5:30 and he chose 5:30. So if you don't like our time or you don't like his time, blame Don, but I'll hand it over to Don. I feel like (inaudible) and Don is Johnny Carson. Thank you.

好的。感謝您的聆聽。好的。所以我認為我們已經沒有問題了，這要歸功於[Don Wood]。現在我想給你講一個故事，好嗎？所以我們——Don 最初偷走了我們的 5:00 時間段，所以我們不是很高興，我們說我們會一起做。然後我說，你知道嗎，我們——我們愛唐，我們想要友好。因此，我們不僅改變了時間，還讓 Don 選擇要在 4:30 還是 5:30 進行，他選擇了 5:30。所以，如果你不喜歡我們的時間，或者你不喜歡他的時間，那就責怪唐，但我會把它交給唐。我覺得（聽不清）唐就是約翰尼·卡森。謝謝。

Thank you. This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與。