Sandisk Corp (SNDK) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and welcome to Sandisk's fourth quarter fiscal year 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this event is being recorded.

下午好，歡迎參加 Sandisk 2025 財年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，此事件正在被記錄。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Ivan Donaldson, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead

現在，我想將會議交給投資者關係副總裁 Ivan Donaldson。請繼續

Before we begin, please note that today's discussion will contain forward-looking statements based on management's current assumptions and expectations, which are subject to various risks and uncertainties. These forward-looking statements include expectations for our technology and product portfolio, our business plans and performance, market trends and opportunities and our future financial results.

在我們開始之前，請注意，今天的討論將包含基於管理層當前假設和期望的前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受各種風險和不確定性的影響。這些前瞻性陳述包括對我們的技術和產品組合、我們的業務計劃和業績、市場趨勢和機會以及我們未來財務表現的預期。

We assume no obligation to update these statements. Please refer to the registration statement on S-1/A and other filings with the SEC for more information on the risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from expectations.

我們不承擔更新這些聲明的義務。有關可能導致實際結果與預期存在重大差異的風險和不確定因素的更多信息，請參閱 S-1/A 的註冊聲明和向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件。

We will also make reference to non-GAAP financial measures today. Reconciliations between the non-GAAP and comparable GAAP financial measures are included and written materials posted in the investor relations section of our website.

今天我們也將參考非公認會計準則財務指標。我們網站的投資者關係部分包含非 GAAP 和可比較 GAAP 財務指標之間的對帳表和書面資料。

I'll now turn the call over to David.

我現在將電話轉給大衛。

Thanks, Ivan. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining Sandisk's Fourth Quarter Fiscal Year 2025 Earnings Call. Sandisk delivered another strong quarter with revenue and non-GAAP earnings per share exceeding guidance.

謝謝，伊凡。下午好，感謝您參加 Sandisk 2025 財年第四季財報電話會議。Sandisk 又一個季度表現強勁，營收和非 GAAP 每股盈餘都超出預期。

Revenue for the fourth quarter was $1.9 billion, up 12% over the prior quarter with both bit shipments and ASPs up mid-single digits. Non-GAAP earnings for the quarter were $0.29 per share.

第四季營收為 19 億美元，較上一季成長 12%，位元出貨量和平均銷售價格均實現中等個位數成長。本季非公認會計準則收益為每股 0.29 美元。

During the quarter, we reduced our inventory from 150 to 135 days and reduced our net debt to $368 million. We remain on track toward reaching our goal of becoming net cash positive.

本季度，我們將庫存從 150 天減少到 135 天，並將淨債務減少到 3.68 億美元。我們仍在朝著實現淨現金為正的目標邁進。

In our fiscal fourth quarter, we estimate that overall demand exceeded supply, which we anticipate to continue through calendar year 2026. Data center demand remains strong, supported by robust capital investment from leading cloud providers.

在我們的財政第四季度，我們估計總體需求超過了供應，我們預計這種情況將持續到 2026 年。在領先雲端供應商強勁資本投資的支持下，資料中心需求依然強勁。

In the client end market, growth was primarily driven by rising average capacity across mobile and PC markets. Overall, we closed fiscal 2025 strong.

在客戶端市場，成長主要得益於行動和 PC 市場平均容量的上升。整體而言，我們在 2025 財年取得了強勁成績。

And while we are optimistic about the future for fiscal '26, we will continue to manage the business prudently. Fiscal year '26 marks a pivotal transition as BiCS 8 becomes our prominent node.

雖然我們對 26 財年的前景感到樂觀，但我們仍將繼續謹慎管理業務。隨著 BiCS 8 成為我們的重要節點，26 財年標誌著一個關鍵的轉變。

We've made strong progress ramping up this industry-leading node into high-volume manufacturing. BiCS 8 delivers best-in-class performance, density and power efficiency capabilities that are critical across a wide range of end markets, including hyperscale data centers, PCs, mobile and gaming.

我們在將這一行業領先節點推向大批量生產方面取得了長足的進步。BiCS 8 提供一流的效能、密度和功率效率功能，這對於包括超大規模資料中心、個人電腦、行動和遊戲在內的廣泛終端市場至關重要。

While the nodal transition brings above-average capital intensity and below average cost reductions in the near term, we expect this to be a year of significant financial improvement with both expanding margins and cash generation as macro headwinds subside and the demand and supply dynamics remain favorable.

雖然節點轉型在短期內會帶來高於平均水平的資本密集度和低於平均水平的成本削減，但隨著宏觀逆風的消退以及供需動態保持良好，我們預計今年將是財務狀況顯著改善的一年，利潤率和現金產生率都將擴大。

Our leadership with BiCS 8 reflects years of focused investment and disciplined engineering execution and we are well positioned to continue and extend that lead. Moving on to key business highlights.

我們在 BiCS 8 方面的領導地位體現了我們多年專注的投資和嚴謹的工程執行，我們完全有能力繼續並擴大這一領先地位。繼續討論主要業務亮點。

In the fourth quarter, data center represented over 12% of our total bit shipped, a meaningful milestone as we scale in this critical part of the market. We continue to make steady progress in both storage enterprise SSDs intended for fast AI data lakes and compute enterprise SSDs intended for compute-heavy applications.

第四季度，資料中心占我們總出貨量的 12% 以上，這對我們在這一關鍵市場領域擴大規模具有重要意義。我們在用於快速 AI 資料湖的儲存企業級 SSD 和用於運算密集型應用的運算企業級 SSD 方面繼續取得穩步進展。

We are proud to announce a 256-terabyte NVMe enterprise SSD powered by our industry-leading Ultra QLC platform, which we unveiled at the future of memory and storage conference. With this product, we are setting a new benchmark in performance, capacity and efficiency for AI-driven workloads.

我們很榮幸地宣布推出一款由我們業界領先的 Ultra QLC 平台提供支援的 256 TB NVMe 企業級 SSD，該 SSD 是我們在記憶體和儲存未來會議上發布的。透過該產品，我們為人工智慧驅動的工作負載設定了效能、容量和效率的新基準。

This breakthrough reflects our deep commitment to helping customers accelerate their most demanding data challenges with scalable next-generation flash solutions. Our plan is to qualify our high-capacity Ultra QLC platform at several major Tier 1 customers by the end of fiscal year 2026.

這項突破體現了我們堅定致力於透過可擴展的下一代快閃記憶體解決方案幫助客戶應對最嚴峻的數據挑戰。我們的計劃是到 2026 財年末，讓我們的高容量 Ultra QLC 平台在幾家主要的一級客戶中得到認可。

On the compute enterprise SSD front, we are encouraged by the progress we have made in qualifying solutions with key customers, including an ongoing qualification with the second major hyperscaler than other customers using the NVIDIA GB 300.

在計算企業級 SSD 方面，我們在為關鍵客戶提供合格解決方案方面取得了進展，這讓我們感到鼓舞，其中包括與使用 NVIDIA GB 300 的其他客戶相比，第二大超大規模客戶的持續認證。

Customer feedback has been consistently positive, particularly regarding TLC's performance and efficiency in high-throughput read intensive applications. Expansion into the data center space requires sustained effort given its long qualification cycles.

客戶的回饋一直都是正面的，特別是關於 TLC 在高吞吐量讀取密集型應用中的效能和效率。由於認證週期較長，因此向資料中心領域擴展需要持續的努力。

We are progressing in line with our expectations in enterprise SSD and our strategy is anchored in the adoption of QLC-based SSDs and PCIe Gen 5 and Gen 6 solutions with our Ultra QLC platform, the technology designed to support the scale and density of fast data lakes needed for AI and other data-intensive workloads.

我們在企業級 SSD 方面正按照預期取得進展，我們的策略是採用基於 QLC 的 SSD 和 PCIe Gen 5 和 Gen 6 解決方案以及我們的 Ultra QLC 平台，該技術旨在支援 AI 和其他資料密集型工作負載所需的快速資料湖的規模和密度。

Cloud infrastructure spending remains significant with industry analysts estimating major US hyperscale CapEx growing 47% year-over-year to $368 billion alongside rising investments in Asia and Europe. Our full stack portfolio from advanced NAND components to high-capacity SSDs is well aligned with the evolving needs of cloud and AI infrastructure customers.

雲端基礎設施支出仍然很大，產業分析師估計，美國主要超大規模資本支出年增 47%，達到 3,680 億美元，同時亞洲和歐洲的投資也在增加。我們從先進的 NAND 元件到高容量 SSD 的全端產品組合完全符合雲端和 AI 基礎設施客戶不斷變化的需求。

With BiCS 8 scaling, continued traction in PCIe Gen 5 and QLC and accelerating global AI workloads, we are confident in our ability to drive sustained growth in this end market and earn our fair and growing share in this fast evolving space. In client, BiCS 8 SSDs are now qualified across all major PC OEMs with additional qualifications underway.

隨著 BiCS 8 的擴展、PCIe Gen 5 和 QLC 的持續發展以及全球 AI 工作負載的加速，我們有信心推動這一終端市場的持續增長，並在這一快速發展的領域贏得公平且不斷增長的份額。在客戶端，BiCS 8 SSD 現已獲得所有主要 PC OEM 的認證，並且正在進行其他認證。

As the market transitions towards QLC, our differentiated CMOS bonded array architecture and system-level capabilities give us a competitive advantage. In addition, in mobile, we secured shipment approvals from key customers for our next-generation storage solutions targeting the premium portion of the market.

隨著市場向 QLC 轉型，我們差異化的 CMOS 鍵結陣列架構和系統級功能為我們帶來了競爭優勢。此外，在行動領域，我們針對高端市場的下一代儲存解決方案已獲得主要客戶的出貨批准。

Our continued innovation in flash-based storage is driving positive customer response across channels. In consumer, we continue to strengthen the Sandisk brand through differentiated product innovation.

我們在快閃記憶體儲存領域的持續創新正在推動各個通路客戶的積極回應。在消費領域，我們持續透過差異化產品創新來強化Sandisk品牌。

Our BiCS 5 technology is showing healthy consumption, supported by solid channel sell-through and seasonal strength so far this calendar year. Meanwhile, our new Sandisk USB4 portable SSD is recognized as one of the fastest solutions on the market, delivering exceptional performance and reliability for content creators, gamers and everyday users.

我們的 BiCS 5 技術顯示出健康的消費勢頭，這得益於今年迄今穩固的通路銷售和季節性強勁表現。同時，我們全新的 Sandisk USB4 便攜式 SSD 被公認為市場上最快的解決方案之一，為內容創作者、遊戲玩家和日常用戶提供卓越的效能和可靠性。

We are deepening strategic partnerships with industry leaders including Nintendo and Xbox. Our co-branded MicroSD Express card for the Nintendo Switch 2 is gaining adoption and the new C50 expansion card for Xbox reinforces our leadership in gaming storage.

我們正在深化與任天堂和 Xbox 等產業領導者的策略合作關係。我們為 Nintendo Switch 2 推出的聯合品牌 MicroSD Express 卡正在獲得越來越多的採用，而用於 Xbox 的新型 C50 擴充卡則鞏固了我們在遊戲儲存領域的領先地位。

We are also expanding into emerging high-growth markets with targeted solutions including a new high-performance USB drive designed for DJs and creative professionals. These efforts reflect our commitment to product innovation, which continues to drive positive customer response across high-value growing consumer use cases.

我們也透過有針對性的解決方案向新興高成長市場擴張，其中包括專為 DJ 和創意專業人士設計的新型高效能 USB 隨身碟。這些努力體現了我們對產品創新的承諾，這將繼續推動客戶在高價值成長的消費者用例中做出積極的回應。

Looking beyond our current product portfolio, we are also investing in innovations that will redefine the future of memory and storage technology. During our Investor Day in February, we unveiled our high-bandwidth flash memory technology, which we trademarked as HBF.

除了我們現有的產品組合之外，我們還在投資重新定義記憶體和儲存技術未來的創新。在二月份的投資者日上，我們推出了高頻寬快閃記憶體技術，並將其註冊為 HBF 商標。

We are proud to announce that just last week at FMS, HBF received the Best of Show award in the most innovative technology category. We have made significant progress advancing this groundbreaking technology over the last six months.

我們很自豪地宣布，就在上週的 FMS 上，HBF 獲得了最具創新技術類別的最佳展覽獎。在過去的六個月裡，我們在推動這項突破性技術方面取得了重大進展。

First, we established a technical advisory board, including industry experts and senior technical leaders from within and outside of Sandisk. Second, we formed an ecosystem partnership with SK Hynix to standardize HBF technology specifications.

首先，我們成立了技術顧問委員會，其中包括來自Sandisk內部和外部的行業專家和高級技術領導。其次，我們與SK海力士建立了生態系統合作夥伴關係，以標準化HBF技術規範。

And third, we announced that we expect to have HBF technology available by the second half of calendar year 2026 and product samples, including the controller device in the first half of '27. We are very optimistic about this technology and the opportunity it is expected to create as AI continues to proliferate.

第三，我們宣布，預計在 2026 年下半年推出 HBF 技術，並在 2027 年上半年推出產品樣品，包括控制器設備。我們對這項技術以及隨著人工智慧的不斷普及它預計將創造的機會非常樂觀。

With that, I'll turn it over to Luis for our financial results and guidance.

說完這些，我將把我們的財務表現和指導交給路易斯。

Thank you, David. Let's start by diving deeper into the quarter financials. Revenue for the fourth quarter was $1.901 billion, up 12% quarter-over-quarter and 8% year-over-year.

謝謝你，大衛。讓我們先深入了解本季的財務狀況。第四季營收為19.01億美元，季增12%，年增8%。

Sequentially, bit shipments and average selling prices were up mid-single digits. Our performance was above our guidance range of $1.750 billion to $1.850 billion, primarily from better-than-expected bits growth.

與上一季相比，位出貨量和平均售價均上漲了中個位數。我們的業績高於 17.5 億美元至 18.5 億美元的指導範圍，主要得益於好於預期的比特成長。

For fiscal year 2025, revenue was $7.355 billion, up 10% from fiscal year 2024. Cloud revenue for the fourth quarter was $213 million, up 8% sequentially and 25% year-over-year.

2025財年營收為73.55億美元，較2024財年成長10%。第四季雲端運算營收為 2.13 億美元，季增 8%，年增 25%。

Client revenue was $1.103 billion, up 19% sequentially and 3% year-over-year. Consumer revenue was $585 million, up 2% quarter-over-quarter and 12% year-over-year.

客戶營收為 11.03 億美元，季增 19%，年增 3%。消費者營收為 5.85 億美元，季增 2%，年增 12%。

Non-GAAP gross margin for the fourth quarter was 26.4%, within our guidance range of 25.5% to 27% and up 370 basis points from the prior quarter. Our non-GAAP gross margin for the fourth quarter includes $51 million in underutilization charges and $42 million in fab start-up costs.

第四季非公認會計準則毛利率為 26.4%，在我們預期的 25.5% 至 27% 範圍內，較上一季上升 370 個基點。我們第四季的非 GAAP 毛利率包括 5,100 萬美元的未充分利用費用和 4,200 萬美元的晶圓廠啟動成本。

Excluding these charges, our non-GAAP gross margin would have been 31.3%. Non-GAAP operating expenses for the fourth quarter were $402 million, in line with our guidance range of $395 million to $405 million.

除去這些費用，我們的非公認會計準則毛利率將達到 31.3%。第四季非公認會計準則營運費用為 4.02 億美元，符合我們 3.95 億至 4.05 億美元的預期範圍。

Fourth quarter non-GAAP earnings per share were $0.29, above our guidance range from a loss of $0.10 to a profit of $0.15. The beat was primarily from the additional revenue flowing through to the bottom line.

第四季非公認會計準則每股收益為0.29美元，高於我們先前預測的虧損0.10美元至獲利0.15美元區間。獲利超出預期主要得益於新增收入的貢獻。

Key GAAP to non-GAAP reconciliation items include stock-based compensation, which represents 2.6% of revenue, $17 million in separation charges and $16 million in restructuring charges as we reduced our workforce by approximately 200 employees.

主要的 GAAP 與非 GAAP 調節項目包括股票薪酬（佔收入的 2.6%）、1700 萬美元的分離費用和 1600 萬美元的重組費用（因為我們裁員了約 200 人）。

Moving on to the balance sheet. We closed the quarter with $1.5 billion in cash and cash equivalents. During the quarter, we reduced our inventory days from 150 to 135 as demand exceeded supply in line with our strategy.

繼續討論資產負債表。本季結束時，我們的現金和現金等價物為 15 億美元。本季度，由於需求超過供應，我們將庫存天數從 150 天減少到 135 天，符合我們的策略。

During the quarter, we also made our first quarterly $5 million term Loan B payment and prepaid an additional $95 million, reducing our long-term debt to $1.8 billion. For perspective, we prepaid an additional $100 million of the Term Loan B after the fourth quarter closed.

在本季度，我們還支付了第一季 500 萬美元的 B 類定期貸款，並預付了 9,500 萬美元，將長期債務減少到 18 億美元。為了便於理解，我們在第四季結束後預付了額外的 1 億美元定期貸款 B。

These repayments reflect our confidence in our future cash flow expectations, which includes funding our BiCS 8 investment. We closed the fourth quarter with 147 million fully diluted shares.

這些償還反映了我們對未來現金流預期的信心，其中包括為我們的 BiCS 8 投資提供資金。在第四季結束時，我們的完全稀釋股份為 1.47 億股。

Moving on to free cash flow. During the quarter, we generated $77 million in adjusted free cash flow. This included $94 million from operations and $28 million cash received from our activities related to flash ventures, partially offset by $45 million invested in our back-end operations and offices.

轉向自由現金流。本季度，我們產生了 7700 萬美元的調整後自由現金流。其中包括來自營運的 9,400 萬美元和來自與閃存企業相關的活動收到的 2,800 萬美元現金，部分被我們後端營運和辦公室投資的 4,500 萬美元所抵消。

The $28 million received from our operations related to flash ventures includes $343 million in gross capital spending with $109 million funded through depreciation as part of our cost of goods sold and $262 million funded from external sources, mainly subsidies and equipment leasing from the joint venture.

我們從與快閃記憶體企業相關的營運中獲得的 2,800 萬美元包括 3.43 億美元的總資本支出，其中 1.09 億美元透過折舊作為我們銷售成本的一部分提供資金，2.62 億美元來自外部來源，主要是補貼和合資企業的設備租賃。

Before moving on to guidance, I want to reinforce that our goal is to create value for our customers and shareholders. We will continue to innovate to drive performance, density and power efficiency while managing supply in line with demand.

在繼續提供指導之前，我想強調一下，我們的目標是為我們的客戶和股東創造價值。我們將持續創新，提高效能、密度和功率效率，同時根據需求管理供應。

This includes adjusting wafer starts, underutilizing fabs when needed to align with demand and planning capacity based on expected demand growth and not productivity. In the fiscal fourth quarter, we also began implementing price increases.

這包括調整晶圓投產、在需要時充分利用晶圓廠以滿足需求以及根據預期需求成長而非生產率來規劃產能。在第四財季，我們也開始實施物價上漲。

Several of our products are on our location, and we expect mid-single-digit undersupply for the fiscal 2026, supporting further price increases. We anticipate our bit growth in fiscal 2026 to be consistent with broader demand growth.

我們的幾種產品都在我們的所在地，我們預計 2026 財年的供應量將出現中等個位數的缺口，從而支持價格進一步上漲。我們預計 2026 財年的比特成長將與更廣泛的需求成長保持一致。

We will continue to adjust supply based on market conditions with an emphasis on driving healthy and sustainable profitability levels. With that, let's move on to the first quarter guide.

我們將繼續根據市場情況調整供應，重點是推動健康和可持續的獲利水準。有了這些，讓我們繼續第一季的指南。

We expect revenue for the first quarter to be $2.100 billion to $2.200 billion. The midpoint of the revenue guidance of 13% growth quarter-over-quarter.

我們預計第一季的營收為 21 億美元至 22 億美元。收入預期的中位數為環比增長 13%。

We expect revenue growth to come from bits growth and higher average selling prices with similar contributions from both drivers. We expect non-GAAP gross margin for the first quarter to be between 28.5% and 29.5%, which includes 10 million to 15 million in underutilization charges and approximately $60 million in fab start-up costs.

我們預期收入成長將來自位數成長和更高的平均銷售價格，這兩個驅動因素的貢獻相似。我們預計第一季非 GAAP 毛利率將在 28.5% 至 29.5% 之間，其中包括 1,000 萬至 1,500 萬美元的未充分利用費用和約 6,000 萬美元的晶圓廠啟動成本。

At midpoint, non-GAAP gross margins are expected to increase by another 260 basis points quarter-over-quarter, mostly from higher pricing. We expect fast start-up costs to reduce significantly as of the third quarter.

中期來看，非 GAAP 毛利率預計將比上一季增加 260 個基點，主要原因是定價上漲。我們預計從第三季開始快速啟動成本將大幅降低。

We expect non-GAAP operating expenses for the first quarter to be between $415 million and $430 million. Non-GAAP interest and other income and expenses to be between $40 million and $45 million and non-GAAP taxes to be between $35 million and $40 million.

我們預計第一季非公認會計準則營運費用將在 4.15 億美元至 4.3 億美元之間。非公認會計準則利息及其他收入和支出介於 4,000 萬美元至 4,500 萬美元之間，非公認會計準則稅收介於 3,500 萬美元至 4,000 萬美元之間。

Higher operating expenses compared to the prior quarter are due to an additional week in the quarter and onetime costs associated with qualification samples for our expanding product portfolio. Combined, the impact of these two costs is between $20 million and $25 million.

與上一季相比，營運費用增加的原因是本季度增加了一周，並且與我們不斷擴大的產品組合的資格樣品相關的一次性成本。這兩筆費用合計的影響在 2,000 萬美元至 2,500 萬美元之間。

As a result, we expect non-GAAP EPS to be between $0.70 and $0.90 based on 148 million fully diluted shares. Free cash flow for the quarter is expected to be positive.

因此，我們預計基於 1.48 億股完全稀釋股份的非 GAAP 每股盈餘將在 0.70 美元至 0.90 美元之間。預計本季的自由現金流為正。

This includes an increase of gross capital spending to support our BiCS 8 program and a reduction in our days of inventory. As a result, we expect our net debt to continue to decline.

這包括增加總資本支出以支持我們的 BiCS 8 計劃並減少我們的庫存天數。因此，我們預計我們的淨債務將繼續下降。

With that, let me turn the call back to David.

說完這些，讓我把電話轉回給大衛。

Thanks, Luis. In conclusion, as we enter fiscal year '26, we see momentum in our product portfolio and improving supply and demand environment, and early benefits from our pricing actions.

謝謝，路易斯。總之，隨著我們進入 26 財年，我們看到產品組合的發展動能和供需環境的改善，以及定價行動帶來的早期效益。

We are evolving from a model driving elasticity based TAM growth to one focused on creating value from our innovation in combination with disciplined capacity management. Ultimately, the steps we are taking today are not just supporting quarterly financial improvements.

我們正在從基於彈性的 TAM 成長驅動模式轉變為專注於結合嚴格的容量管理透過創新創造價值的模式。最終，我們今天採取的措施不僅僅是為了支持季度財務改善。

They are laying the groundwork for a stronger, more resilient Sandisk built for long-term success and value creation for our shareholders as well as enabling us to drive value for customers long term.

他們正在為更強大、更具韌性的 Sandisk 奠定基礎，以實現長期成功並為股東創造價值，並使我們能夠長期為客戶創造價值。

With that, let's open the call for questions.

現在，讓我們開始提問。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

C.J. Muse, Cantor Fitzgerald.

C.J. Muse，領唱費茲傑拉。

I guess I was hoping to spend a little bit of time giving more depth on gross margins. Obviously, great guide, 260 bps higher, but I think less than expectations.

我想我希望花一點時間更深入地探討毛利率。顯然，這是一個很好的指導，高出 260 個基點，但我認為低於預期。

So if you could kind of walk through underutilization cost downs mix, anything that could be helpful.

因此，如果您可以介紹一下利用不足的成本降低組合，那麼任何內容都可能有所幫助。

Yeah. Thank you, C.J. As you saw on the utilization is moving lower and lower. Now we are forecasting it to be between $10 million and $15 million in the quarter, which is significantly down from what we had in Q4.

是的。謝謝你，C.J. 正如你所看到的，利用率正在越來越低。現在我們預測本季的營收將在 1,000 萬美元至 1,500 萬美元之間，與第四季相比大幅下降。

Really, the biggest impact on gross margin this quarter is start-up costs, right? Start-up costs are somewhere around $60 million, which continued to impact us in the quarter.

確實，本季對毛利率影響最大的是啟動成本，對嗎？啟動成本約為 6,000 萬美元，這在本季繼續對我們產生影響。

If you look at both together, underutilization and start-up costs for the quarter, it's about 300 basis points. And the good news is they will go away, right? These costs are coming down, they will be reduced next quarter and will be significantly reduced in Q3.

如果將本季的未充分利用率和啟動成本放在一起看，則約為 300 個基點。好消息是它們會消失，對嗎？這些成本正在下降，下個季度將會降低，第三季將會大幅降低。

So we'll continue to see those 30 basis points kind of flowing to our gross margin as we go forward.

因此，隨著我們繼續前進，我們將繼續看到這 30 個基點流入我們的毛利率。

Joe Moore, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的喬摩爾。

Great. I wonder if you could give us a little bit more color on the high bandwidth flash partnership, I guess, what's the thought process behind partnering? And how do you extract the most value working with Hynix on that?

偉大的。我想知道您是否可以向我們詳細介紹高頻寬快閃記憶體合作夥伴關係，我想，合作背後的想法過程是什麼？那麼，您如何透過與海力士的合作實現最大價值呢？

Joe, good to hear from you. Yes, we're very excited about this. We introduced, we've been working on this technology for a while. I think we are all looking at the AI architecture and understanding, what are good ways to optimize it.

喬，很高興收到你的來信。是的，我們對此感到非常興奮。我們介紹說，我們已經研究這項技術有一段時間了。我認為我們都在關注人工智慧架構並了解如何優化它。

We view it as a memory-bound problem and then looking for how we can bring flash this equation with our scalability road map. And as we talked about at our Investor Day, we think we've found a way to design flash where we can overcome the bandwidth or achieve the bandwidth requirements that we need.

我們將其視為記憶體限制問題，然後尋找如何利用我們的可擴展性路線圖來實現這一方程式。正如我們在投資者日上所討論的那樣，我們認為我們已經找到了一種設計快閃記憶體的方法，可以克服頻寬問題或滿足我們所需的頻寬要求。

And so we've been driving this forward. And I think what we really want to do is drive this as an industry standard. And when Hynix contacted us and had the same goal of saying, hey, let's see how we can take this technology and make it a standard.

因此我們一直在推動此事。我認為我們真正想要做的是將其推向行業標準。當海力士聯繫我們並懷抱相同的目標時，我們說，嘿，讓我們看看如何採用這項技術並使其成為標準。

I think anything in this industry that has this broad of applicability, this is a technology that can play from the edge. So PCs, smartphones, all the way into the cloud.

我認為這個行業中任何具有如此廣泛適用性的東西都是可以發揮作用的技術。因此，個人電腦、智慧型手機一直都進入雲端。

For inference, we think it's a new paradigm for how inference is driven. And the ability, all customers are going to look for that as an industry standard.

對於推理，我們認為這是推理驅動的新典範。所有客戶都會將這種能力視為行業標準。

And we think that's how we move this the fastest and how we drive it forward. We've got a controller to design and all the interfaces to standardize around that and doing it with an industry partner, we think, is the right way to go to move this along and drive adoption as quickly as possible.

我們認為這是我們最快推進和推動它前進的方式。我們要設計一個控制器，並圍繞它標準化所有接口，並與行業合作夥伴一起完成這項工作，我們認為，這是推動這一進程並儘快推動採用的正確方法。

And quite frankly, we think the industry is going to need this kind of capacity in the memory architecture to drive inference at scale. So that's a little more background for you.

坦白說，我們認為產業將需要這種記憶體架構容量來推動大規模推理。這樣你就了解更多背景資訊了。

Great. And your confidence in this kind of being commercially viable next year from a sampling perspective, is this how speculative should we view these investments as being at this point?

偉大的。從抽樣角度來看，您對明年此類技術的商業可行性有信心嗎？我們目前該如何看待這些投資的投機性？

Well, I mean, Joe, what we said is next year, we'll be sampling the die for the NAND and then early '27, we'll have the controller that goes along with that. So we've been building NAND die for 25 years now.

嗯，喬，我的意思是，我們說的是，明年，我們將對 NAND 晶片進行取樣，然後在 27 年初，我們將推出與之配套的控制器。我們已經製造 NAND 晶片 25 年了。

So we have a lot of history in that. It is a development project. So there's always uncertainty and unknowns, but we know how to manage through those.

我們在這方面有著豐富的歷史。這是一個開發項目。因此總是存在不確定性和未知數，但我們知道如何解決這些問題。

And I think one of the things folks have been asking us since our Investor Day was to put some timelines around this and give us a better idea of how this technology is going to evolve, and we've seen a lot of progress since then over the last five months.

我認為，自投資者日以來，人們一直要求我們做的一件事就是為此制定一些時間表，讓我們更好地了解這項技術將如何發展，自那時以來，在過去的五個月裡，我們已經看到了很大的進展。

So we feel very comfortable putting those dates out, and we've got teams working aggressively towards those milestones.

因此，我們非常放心地公佈這些日期，而我們的團隊正在積極努力地實現這些里程碑。

Aaron Rakers, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的 Aaron Rakers。

I guess I want to go back to C.J.'s question a little bit, appreciating the inputs in the gross margin. I know, Luis, you had mentioned that the start-up cost of $60 million, it looks like it's up from the $42 million this last quarter.

我想稍微回顧一下 C.J. 的問題，了解毛利率的投入。我知道，路易斯，你提到啟動成本為 6000 萬美元，看起來比上一季的 4200 萬美元增加。

But you did suggest that, that should decline significantly going forward. Any kind of glide path of how we should think about that $60 million as we look out over the next couple of quarters?

但你確實暗示過，未來這數字應該會大幅下降。展望未來幾個季度，我們該如何看待這 6,000 萬美元？

And then I guess, also tied to the gross margin. I guess if I back those items out, I adjust, it looks like your rate of cost down relative to the BiCS 8 ramp.

然後我猜，這也跟毛利率有關。我想如果我取消這些項目並進行調整，看起來你的成本率相對於 BiCS 8 坡道會下降。

I'm just curious like that seems to be a bit of a headwind. When do we start to see maybe that cost curve start to normalize and you start to see the benefits of that cost down from BiCS 8.

我只是好奇，這似乎有點逆風。我們什麼時候才能開始看到成本曲線開始正常化，並且您開始看到成本從 BiCS 8 下降的好處。

Yeah. So thank you for the question. What you should expect is, call it, two steps as we go down from the start-up costs, a significant step down next quarter and then even a further step down in our fiscal Q3.

是的。謝謝你的提問。您應該預料到的是，隨著啟動成本的下降，我們將採取兩個步驟，下個季度將大幅下降，然後在財政第三季進一步下降。

So we expect two steps to get very close to minimal impacts on start-up costs. So that's kind of what you should expect there.

因此，我們預計這兩個步驟將對啟動成本產生非常接近最小的影響。這就是你應該期待的。

Underutilization, expect unless the dynamics change in the market, it should be pretty close to zero going forward. As you saw, our inventory levels are coming down.

未充分利用，除非市場動態發生變化，否則未來利用率應接近零。如您所見，我們的庫存水準正在下降。

I also mentioned that we're seeing some of our products are actually on allocation because we're seeing a good market. As David mentioned, we see an undersupply situation there. So we're feeling good there.

我還提到，我們看到我們的一些產品實際上已經分配完畢，因為我們看到了良好的市場。正如大衛所提到的，我們看到那裡存在供應不足的情況。所以我們感覺很好。

In terms of ongoing savings, at the end of the day, the way you bring cost per gigabyte down is through no transitions, right? And the node transition that we're going through is as we implement BiCS 8, we mentioned that Q4, we closed about 7% of our bits were BiCS 8 and we will be somewhere between 40% and 50% by the end of fiscal year '26.

就持續節省而言，最終降低每 GB 成本的方法就是不進行任何轉換，對嗎？我們正在經歷的節點轉換是在我們實施 BiCS 8 時，我們提到在第四季度，我們關閉了大約 7% 的位元是 BiCS 8，到 26 財年末，這一比例將達到 40% 到 50% 之間。

So that's when you will start to see the impact and the benefit of that transition throughout the year as we continue to change our mix into from BiCS 6 towards BiCS 8. Hopefully, that helps, sir.

因此，隨著我們繼續將我們的組合從 BiCS 6 轉變為 BiCS 8，您將開始看到全年轉變的影響和好處。希望這能有所幫助，先生。

That does. And then real quickly, you mentioned growing bit growth consistent with the broader demand of the market. Can you just remind us of what that growth is the broader market demand?

確實如此。然後很快，您提到了位元成長與市場更廣泛的需求一致。您能否提醒我們一下，更廣泛的市場需求的成長是什麼？

So Aaron, we see '25, we see demand low double digits, very low double digits with supply under that. And then we see that moving up to mid-to high double digits in calendar year '26, but we still see demand below that.

所以 Aaron，我們看到 25 年，需求處於低兩位數，供應處於非常低的兩位數。然後，我們看到 2026 年的需求量上升到了中高兩位數，但我們仍然看到需求量低於這個數字。

And we mentioned that in the prepared remarks that we continue to see this undersupplied market through the end of '26. I think the last quarter played out as we thought back at our Investor Day, we're optimistic on the second half.

我們在準備好的評論中提到，到 26 年底，我們將繼續看到這個供應不足的市場。我認為，正如我們在投資者日回顧的那樣，上個季度的表現讓我們對下半年充滿信心。

And then we go into '26, we still see, when you look at the whole year, production demand, we see more demand than supply. So we feel very good about the market.

然後我們進入 26 年，我們仍然看到，當你看到全年的生產需求時，我們看到的需求大於供應。因此我們對市場感覺非常良好。

And just to comment on your first part of your question, Luis did a great job with it. But we're clearly in a state where we have some headwinds on the cost side.

僅就您問題的第一部分進行評論，路易斯對此做得很好。但我們顯然在成本方面面臨一些阻力。

We're going through a fab start-up, which is a pretty big episodic event, which we drive through, we've been on BiCS 5 for quite some time. It was still the predominant node last quarter.

我們正在經歷一場晶圓廠的創業，這是一個相當大的偶發事件，我們一直在推動，我們已經在 BiCS 5 上待了很長一段時間了。它仍然是上個季度的主要節點。

It's been a fantastic node for us, the highest yielding node in the history of BiCS. But now we're going to go through a year here where we start with BiCS 8 at mid-single digits percent of the portfolio and roughly end with it as half.

對我們來說這是一個非常棒的節點，也是 BiCS 史上收益最高的節點。但現在我們將要度過這一年，從 BiCS 8 佔投資組合中個位數百分比開始，到大致佔到投資組合的一半結束。

So we're going to have that be a tailwind to the business as we mix into a more efficient node. And then we're going to have the start-up cost, as Luis talked about, step down over the last, over the next couple of quarters.

因此，當我們融入更有效率的節點時，這將成為業務的順風。然後，正如路易斯所談到的，我們將在接下來的幾個季度逐步降低啟動成本。

So we're going to turn what have been headwinds in the business and the tailwinds and all of that against the backdrop of what we see as a favorable supply and demand environment.

因此，我們將在我們認為有利的供需環境的背景下扭轉業務中的逆風和順風等。

Wamsi Mohan, Bank of America.

美國銀行的 Wamsi Mohan。

How are you thinking about the growth in client in the second half of the calendar year, given some of the dynamics of PC demand pull forward and maybe some in smartphones as well that seem to have happened here in the first half?

考慮到上半年個人電腦需求和智慧型手機需求的一些動態提前，您如何看待下半年客戶端的成長？

Wamsi, we've seen very consistent behavior out of these customers, right? I mean we've been seeing consistent demand. Maybe there was some pull ahead early in the tariff days, but the market has absorbed that.

Wamsi，我們看到這些客戶的行為非常一致，對嗎？我的意思是我們一直看到持續的需求。也許在關稅實施初期出現了一些上漲，但市場已經吸收了這些上漲。

And as we look into the second half, we see pretty consistent demand from the signals our customers are sending us. So again, the overall backdrop is we see an undersupplied market and we see consistent demand from those customers.

當我們展望下半年時，我們發現客戶向我們發出的訊號需求相當一致。因此，總體背景是，我們看到市場供應不足，但客戶的需求持續存在。

And we also believe that their inventory levels have been normalized. So we don't see a lot of big distortions on the market here as we move through the second half.

我們也相信他們的庫存水準已經正常化。因此，在進入下半年時，我們不會發現市場出現太多重大扭曲。

You also just mentioned tariffs, can you talk about how you're thinking strategically about tariffs on semis, particularly given that your fab footprint is kind of all Japan. So how are you thinking about navigating that given some of the comments (inaudible) were lately.

您剛才也提到了關稅，能否談談您對半導體關稅的戰略思考，特別是考慮到您的晶圓廠幾乎遍布日本。那麼，考慮到最近的一些評論（聽不清楚），您打算如何解決這個問題。

Yeah. Wamsi, obviously, we're staying very, very close to that. I mean, I think the NAND business in general is a very dynamic business. It's something you got to stay very close to on a day-to-day basis and tariffs are another thing that are part of that equation.

是的。瓦姆西，顯然，我們已經非常接近這個目標了。我的意思是，我認為 NAND 業務總體上是一個非常有活力的業務。這是你每天都必須密切關注的事情，而關稅是這個等式的另一個組成部分。

We stay very close to that. We have conversations with all the right folks. We need to, to understand, get the best view possible of where this is all going to land.

我們非常接近這個目標。我們與所有合適的人進行了交談。我們需要盡可能地了解這一切最終會如何發展。

It is pretty dynamic right now. I think the big issue for us, of course, is the 232 tariffs that we still have yet to see. So when we see those, then we'll have more to say about how do we respond to it. But we're very confident in our ability to navigate this whole situation with our global footprint.

現在它非常活躍。我認為，對我們來說最大的問題當然是我們尚未看到的 232 關稅。所以當我們看到這些時，我們就會有更多關於如何應對的事情要說。但我們非常有信心，憑藉我們的全球影響力，我們有能力應對整個局勢。

Vijay Rakesh, Mizuho.

瑞穗的 Vijay Rakesh。

Just a quick question on the data center side. Obviously, it looks like you're ramping your [20, 26] gig QLC SSD, you target family, can you talk to how the road map looks?

我只是想問一下關於資料中心方面的一個簡單問題。顯然，看起來您正在加大 [20，26] GB QLC SSD 的投入，目標是家庭用戶，您能談談路線圖是怎樣的嗎？

You obviously have a second hyperscale earlier qualifying, but what's the target that you're trying to get to like by the, let's say, end of fiscal '26 in terms of a number of hyperscalers, mix of data center revenue side. I think you mentioned 12% of bits. Or where do you see that going?

您顯然已經擁有第二個超大規模早期資格，但是就超大規模數量和資料中心收入組合而言，您希望在 26 財年末達到的目標是什麼？我認為您提到了 12% 的位。或者您認為這將如何發展？

Yeah. I mean our goal, we've been pretty consistent. This is an area where we want to increase our optionality and be able to mix up at least to our fair share of the market, if not more. It's a market where there's long development cycles.

是的。我的意思是我們的目標一直都非常一致。我們希望在這個領域增加我們的選擇性，並且至少能夠佔據我們應有的市場份額，甚至更多。這是一個開發週期很長的市場。

We have a previous generation of products in the market that we've been driving over the last several years that have been performing. And now we have the next generation of products coming out.

我們在市場上推出了上一代產品，過去幾年來，這些產品表現良好。現在我們即將推出下一代產品。

On the compute side, we've been talking about that for two or three quarters. We've got good traction with 1 hyperscaler. We're qualifying a second right now.

在計算方面，我們已經討論了兩個或三個季度了。我們已經與 1 個超大規模企業建立了良好的合作關係。我們現在正在爭取第二名。

And then to your point, we were very happy to announce at FMS, the actual in our booth, we had the 256 terabyte Stargate platform drive. People can come and see it and touch it and see the performance and that product is just now going into the first customer's hands.

然後回到您的問題，我們很高興在 FMS 上宣布，我們的展位上實際上有 256 TB 的 Stargate 平台驅動器。人們可以來觀看、觸摸它並了解其性能，而該產品現在正交到第一位顧客的手中。

And so from there, you go into a qualification process, which will be 6 to 12 months. So it's an evolving story, but we feel very good about where we're at, we think with our new development, we're moving on to the front foot as far as the availability of our products at the right capacity points as the market transitions.

從那時起，您將進入資格認證過程，這將持續 6 到 12 個月。所以這是一個不斷發展的故事，但我們對目前的情況感到非常滿意，我們認為，隨著我們的新發展，我們將在市場轉型過程中，以正確的容量點提供我們的產品，並佔據先機。

And as we go through '26, I think we'll see ramping set of qualifications first, and then we'll start to see the revenue ramp behind that.

當我們進入26年時，我認為我們首先會看到資格的增加，然後我們將開始看到背後的收入增加。

Got it. And then just a quick follow-up for Luis. I think you mentioned an asked the previous question 300 bps underutilization. Should we expect that to completely come off by your fiscal Q3?

知道了。然後我們來快速跟進一下路易斯的情況。我認為您提到並詢問了前面的問題 300 bps 的未充分利用情況。我們是否應該預期這一情況會在你們的財政第三季完全實現？

So over the next two quarters, I guess, you should see a pricing tailwind to margins and that underutilization coming down. Is that how we should look at it.

因此，我想，在接下來的兩個季度裡，你應該會看到價格對利潤率的順風作用以及利用不足現象的下降。我們應該這樣看待它嗎？

Yeah. Just to make sure you have the right numbers, right? So underutilization was about $50 million in Q4. What I'm saying is going to be between $10 million and $15 million in Q1 and I would expect it to be very close to zero thereafter.

是的。只是為了確保你有正確的數字，對嗎？因此第四季的未充分利用金額約為 5000 萬美元。我所說的是第一季的收入將在 1000 萬美元至 1500 萬美元之間，並且我預計此後的收入將非常接近零。

Obviously, we're going to adjust, as I said, based on supply and demand because we believe that where we need to be supply and demand balance or slightly under supply. So we'll continue to manage towards that.

顯然，正如我所說，我們將根據供需關係進行調整，因為我們認為我們需要的是供需平衡或略微供不應求。因此，我們將繼續努力實現這一目標。

The number that comes down over time is a start-up cost, right? Q4 was about $42 million. Q1, we're guiding somewhere around $60 million. And then as I mentioned, we expect this to come down in two steps in Q2 and Q3 being minimal.

隨著時間的推移而下降的數字就是啟動成本，對嗎？第四季約 4,200 萬美元。第一季度，我們預計投資金額約為 6,000 萬美元。正如我所提到的，我們預計這一數字將在第二季和第三季分兩步下降，降幅很小。

Karl Ackerman, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的卡爾·阿克曼。

I have two, if I may. Could you talk about the average capacity trends you're seeing across flagship mobile in the second half of this calendar year as well as content growth of conventional Windows 11 PCs and AI-enabled PCs that support your view for demand to outstrip supply into fiscal '26.

如果可以的話，我有兩個。您能否談談今年下半年旗艦手機的平均容量趨勢，以及傳統 Windows 11 PC 和支援 AI 的 PC 的內容增長，這些趨勢支持您關於 26 財年需求將超過供應的觀點。

Yeah. As we look at [15], we see average capacity in smartphones up high single digits in '26, a little tick above that and PCs, we see average capacity in '25, up mid-single digits.

是的。如我們所見[15]，我們發現26年智慧型手機的平均容量成長了高個位數，略高於此，而個人電腦的平均容量在25年則成長了中個位數。

And then as we go into '26 up mid-to high single digits. So going in '26, we see higher average capacity per unit across both smartphones and PCs.

然後，當我們進入 26 年時，成長率將上升到中高個位數。因此，進入 26 年，我們將看到智慧型手機和個人電腦的單位平均容量更高。

Very helpful. David, for my quick follow-up, given the comments that you made about within enterprise SSD, should we expect your data center SSD business to grow more than twice the demand you expect overall in fiscal '26 given the cloud investment and visibility they may be giving you today?

非常有幫助。大衛，我想快速跟進一下，鑑於您對企業級 SSD 內部的評論，考慮到他們今天可能為您提供的雲端投資和可見性，我們是否可以預期您的資料中心 SSD 業務的增長速度將是 26 財年總體需求的兩倍以上？

Yeah. We're not going to forecast for the whole year. But look, Karl, we feel really good about where the portfolio is and the customers are pulling it in. I think you may have caught in Luis comments.

是的。我們不會對全年做出預測。但是，卡爾，你看，我們對投資組合的現狀和客戶對它的吸引力感到非常滿意。我想你可能已經注意到路易斯的評論了。

One of the things that's happening this quarter is we've got a little extra OpEx that we're going to spend because the number of units we need for qualifications is higher than we expected, which is an investment we'll make at any time.

本季發生的事情之一是，我們將花費一些額外的營運支出，因為我們需要的資格認證單位數量高於我們的預期，這是我們隨時都會進行的投資。

So the qualification process in this market and these size drives is very, this is a new platform. So it's a significant process, but the good news of that is once you get through it, then there's significant consumption on the other side.

因此，這個市場的資格認證過程和規模驅動力非常重要，這是一個新的平台。所以這是一個重要的過程，但好消息是，一旦你完成了它，那麼在另一邊就會有大量的消耗。

So we'll give you updates as we go throughout the fiscal year and then beyond of kind of how we're doing on those qualifications and what we expect in revenue growth.

因此，我們將在整個財政年度及以後向您提供最新信息，說明我們在這些資格方面的表現以及我們對收入增長的預期。

But we certainly are confident in the product, we're seeing very good response from customers, and we look forward to getting to the point where we have the optionality to mix higher into this part of the market, depending on what the market gives us.

但我們確實對產品充滿信心，我們看到了來自客戶的良好反響，並且我們期待著能夠根據市場情況，選擇將產品更多地融入這一市場中。

I think as you know, we already have a great portfolio in consumer. We have a great portfolio in gaming. We have a really strong position in clients.

我想如你所知，我們在消費者領域已經擁有豐富的產品組合。我們在遊戲領域擁有豐富的產品組合。我們在客戶中佔據著非常強勢的地位。

We're going to fill out this part of the portfolio. And we'll be in a really good spot that no matter what the market presents us, we'll be able to mix into the best return for our shareholders.

我們將填寫投資組合的這一部分。無論市場如何變化，我們都將處於非常有利的地位，能夠為股東帶來最佳回報。

Krish Sankar, TD Cowen.

Krish Sankar，TD Cowen。

This is Eddie for Krish. One of your main peers is reported to be exiting the China NAND market, specifically in mobile.

這是 Eddie，代表 Krish。據報道，你們的一個主要同行將退出中國 NAND 市場，特別是行動市場。

I wonder what's your exposure to China today and what end markets you have biggest exposure to. And if you have any views to share about the competitive dynamics in China, that would be helpful.

我想知道您目前在中國的曝光度如何以及您在哪些終端市場曝光度最大。如果您對中國的競爭動態有任何看法可以分享，那將會很有幫助。

Yeah. I mean we play across a wide range of markets, the global markets. I mean, I don't tend to think about them about one country at a time.

是的。我的意思是我們的業務遍及廣泛的市場，即全球市場。我的意思是，我不會一次只考慮一個國家。

But I think every everybody has to decide what the mix of their portfolio is going to be, and it doesn't surprise me that people make decisions of markets to enter and exit. We see China as an attractive market for us.

但我認為每個人都必須決定他們的投資組合的組合，人們決定進入和退出市場並不讓我感到驚訝。我們認為中國對我們來說是一個有吸引力的市場。

We have a lot of partners there. Obviously, it's a good consumer market for us as well. So I think that's something one of our peers decided to do. But for us, this is an important part of the market.

我們在那裡有很多合作夥伴。顯然，這對我們來說也是一個很好的消費市場。所以我認為這是我們的一位同行決定要做的事情。但對我們來說，這是市場的重要組成部分。

That's helpful, Dave. And a quick follow-up. On the June quarter, you guys guided like bits to be flat, but reported like upside of mid-single digits. I wonder where the upside came from, what end market?

這很有幫助，戴夫。並進行快速跟進。在 6 月季度，你們預期銷售額將持平，但報告顯示銷售額將出現中等個位數的成長。我想知道上漲空間從何而來，哪個終端市場？

Yeah. Really, it was across the board. We saw good growth. Client was good. We saw good growth across the portfolio, actually.

是的。確實，這是全面的。我們看到了良好的成長。客戶很好。事實上，我們看到整個投資組合都實現了良好的成長。

So we're very happy with how things trended and you can also see that reflected in our inventory days, right? As I mentioned, we're getting much tighter and to a point where sometimes our customers want products we don't have. Yeah, we saw good performance across the board versus our expectations.

因此，我們對事態發展趨勢感到非常滿意，您也可以從我們的庫存天數中看到這一點，對嗎？正如我所提到的，我們的關係變得越來越緊密，有時我們的客戶想要我們沒有的產品。是的，我們看到整體表現比我們的預期更好。

Steven Fox, Fox Advisors.

史蒂文‧福克斯，福克斯顧問公司。

I was just wondering if you could talk a little bit more about the start-up costs in the quarter, what they're related to, how quickly you get the return? And if it's any different than the expectation was 90 days ago in terms of the $60 million for the fiscal Q1?

我只是想知道您是否可以再多談談本季的啟動成本，它們與什麼相關，以及您多快獲得回報？那麼，就財政第一季的 6,000 萬美元而言，這與 90 天前的預期有何不同？

Yeah. No, the plan hasn't changed. The plan is very consistent with what we had. So let me explain a little bit, right? As you go from one node to another, new nodes require more tools, more steps, more space.

是的。不，計劃沒有改變。該計劃與我們原有的計劃非常一致。那麼讓我稍微解釋一下，好嗎？當你從一個節點轉到另一個節點時，新節點需要更多的工具、更多的步驟、更多的空間。

So you build a little bit more clean room for that. And then once you build the space, you need to actually clean the clean room, you need to get everything kind of ongoing.

因此，你要為此建造更潔淨一點的房間。然後，一旦你建好了空間，你就需要真正地清潔無塵室，你需要讓一切順利進行。

Sometimes you need to relocate tools because we reutilize most of our old tools in new nodes. So that all adds up in extra costs, some energy costs while you're not producing bits.

有時您需要重新定位工具，因為我們在新節點中重複使用大多數舊工具。因此，當您不生產零件時，所有這些加起來就形成了額外的成本和一些能源成本。

And that's kind of what we classify as start-up costs. So most of this or a big portion of this cost go away, right? Again, as I said, you relocate tools and that doesn't stay with you.

這就是我們所說的啟動成本。那麼其中的大部分或很大一部分成本都會消失，對嗎？再說一遍，正如我所說的，你重新安置了工具，但工具並不會留在你身邊。

Some of these costs stay with you like energy consumption, but they would go to inventory with your bits. So it's a very different handling off of those costs. Hopefully, that clarifies.

其中一些成本會像能源消耗一樣留在你身上，但它們會隨著你的比特進入庫存。因此，處理這些成本的方式非常不同。希望這能澄清一切。

Asiya Merchant, Citigroup.

花旗集團的 Asiya Merchant。

Great. If I may, at the Analyst Day, I think you guys talked about perhaps mid-teens kind of a CAGR as you think about maybe it was through cycle.

偉大的。如果可以的話，在分析師日，我想你們談論的可能是十幾歲左右的複合年增長率，因為你們認為這可能是個週期。

So I'm just wondering, just given the high SSD, the ultra QLC that you're talking about, how does that kind of affect the way you're thinking about the NAND market and the bit growth that we should be expecting?

所以我只是想知道，考慮到您談論的高端 SSD、超級 QLC，這會如何影響您對 NAND 市場的看法以及我們應該預期的位元成長？

And is this something, you're coming out of a market that saw some perhaps some pull forward in the first half of this year, how we should think about the demand upside if Ultra QLC or high SSDs materialize into significant AI workloads?

這是什麼情況？您剛走出今年上半年可能會出現一些成長的市場，如果 Ultra QLC 或高 SSD 成為重要的 AI 工作負載，我們應該如何看待需求上升空間？

Yeah. So first of all, when we talk about the growth numbers, kind of all in. We kind of go by each segment. We look at, obviously, the big three smartphone, PC and data center and then kind of aggregate that all up into an overall number where I talk about were either undersupplied or oversupplied.

是的。因此，首先，當我們談論成長數字時，我們都會全盤考慮。我們按照每個部分進行。顯然，我們會專注於三大市場：智慧型手機、個人電腦和資料中心，然後將它們匯總成一個總體數字，我所說的總體數字要么是供應不足，要么是供應過剩。

So in the data center market, we continue to see strong growth. I think we just saw a couple of weeks ago with the hyperscalers reported that CapEx took another step up.

因此，在資料中心市場，我們繼續看到強勁的成長。我想我們幾週前就看到超大規模企業報告說資本支出又上升了一步。

There's an enormous amount of investment in AI. And I think that our customers are pulling us forward on the road map on these very high-density enterprise SSDs as they build out data lake.

人工智慧領域投入了大量資金。我認為，我們的客戶在建造資料湖時正在推動我們在這些高密度企業級 SSD 路線圖上前進。

So we think, we've been investing in the Stargate platform for, it takes years to build a platform like that. And we feel like, we're now at the point where we can put that product in customers' hands.

所以我們認為，我們一直在投資星際之門平台，建造這樣的平台需要數年時間。我們覺得，現在我們可以將產品交到客戶手中了。

And as we go through '26, we'll get through qualifications and then the actual selling and volume. But the demand for all of those products and the demand for those workloads and all those CapEx numbers are factored into the numbers we put out for how we see the supply and demand for the market.

當我們經歷 26 年時，我們將獲得資格認證，然後獲得實際的銷售和銷售。但是，我們對所有這些產品的需求、對這些工作負載的需求以及所有這些資本支出數字都被納入了我們發布的市場供需數據中。

And if I may, you have a pretty aggressive Chinese competitor in this market. I know you talked a little bit about undersupply, and it takes a few months maybe a couple of quarters for production adjustments to affect supply.

如果可以的話，我可以說，這個市場上有一個相當激進的中國競爭對手。我知道您談到了供應不足的問題，生產調整可能需要幾個月甚至幾季才能影響供應。

Just anything you can share on, when you look at the competitive moves that are happening, how you're thinking about that particular competitor in terms of affecting the, a nice tight supply-demand environment that you're talking about?

可以分享什麼嗎？當您觀察正在發生的競爭動態時，您如何看待特定競爭對手對您所說的良好的緊張供需環境的影響？

Yeah. We factor all the players in the market. All of the competitors are in our forecast for market demands. They all have, they all play in different markets, different portfolios to the questions earlier, different places they can play or want to play.

是的。我們考慮了市場中的所有參與者。所有競爭對手都在我們的市場需求預測之中。他們都有，他們都在不同的市場、不同的投資組合中發揮作用，回答前面的問題，他們在不同的領域發揮作用或想要發揮作用。

And so we have that all factored into our numbers, and that's where we come up with this -- I think we believe going back to our Investor Day that we were going into an undersupplied market, we've seen it play out that way.

因此，我們將所有這些都考慮在我們的數據中，這就是我們得出這個結論的原因——我認為，我們相信，回到投資者日，我們正進入一個供應不足的市場，我們已經看到它是這樣發展的。

And we continue to see that going forward, factoring in all the investments, all the nodal transitions that are going on, on the supply side. And to your point, all of the different use cases, we've talked about it here, whether it's data center and AI workloads or it's PCs, number of units, average content per unit, same thing for smartphones.

我們將繼續看到這種情況的發生，考慮到供應方面的所有投資和正在進行的所有節點轉型。正如您所說，所有不同的用例，我們都在這裡討論過，無論是資料中心和人工智慧工作負載，還是個人電腦、單位數量、每單位平均內容，對於智慧型手機來說也是一樣的。

So that's where we add it all up and we come up with is undersupplied market. And in the second half, we see about a 5% undersupplied market, and I think we'll get all of '26 more dialed in as we get closer to it.

因此，我們將所有因素加起來，得出的結論是市場供應不足。而在下半年，我們看到市場供應不足約 5％，我認為隨著我們越來越接近這一目標，我們將能夠獲得更多 26% 的供應。

Mark Miller, The Benchmark Co.

米勒（Mark Miller），The Benchmark Co.

I was just wondering if you could give us some more color on where you're seeing allocations.

我只是想知道您是否可以提供更多有關您所看到的分配的詳細資訊。

Yeah. So thank you for the question, Mark. We're seeing allocations across many of our products, particularly on as we transition from BiCS 5 to BiCS 8. There are certain products where we're just sort on both of them on BiCS 5 and on BiCS 8.

是的。謝謝你的提問，馬克。我們看到許多產品的分配情況，特別是從 BiCS 5 過渡到 BiCS 8 時。對於某些產品，我們只需在 BiCS 5 和 BiCS 8 上進行分類。

And we're just managing that with our customers, right, in terms of timings and how do we maximize value for them and for us, so it's a little bit of some of our products on BiCS 5 and some on BiCS 8.

我們只是與客戶一起管理這個問題，就時間安排以及如何為他們和我們自己實現價值最大化而言，因此我們的一些產品在 BiCS 5 上，一些在 BiCS 8 上。

Are you seeing any major share changes in the data center market?

您是否看到資料中心市場佔有率有重大變化？

No, I wouldn't say that.

不，我不會這麼說。

I mean, look, you've seen some episodic bit shipment numbers from different players in the market. So share is going to move around in the market where you got to look, as you guys well know, you got to look over longer periods of time than one quarter to the next quarter look year-over-year.

我的意思是，你看，你已經看到了市場上不同參與者的一些片段出貨量數字。因此，股票將在市場上波動，正如你們所知，你必須觀察更長的時間段，而不是一個季度到下一個季度的同比情況。

But I think the good news of all of that, as we've seen those bit shipments, the market has absorbed those numbers, and we still have this favorable supply-demand balance, which is the big picture that we look at and we're encouraged by that going forward.

但我認為所有這些的好消息是，正如我們所看到的，這些比特出貨量，市場已經吸收了這些數字，我們仍然擁有有利的供需平衡，這是我們所看到的大局，我們對此感到鼓舞。

Thank you, Mark. That's a great place to wrap up. We appreciate all the questions, everybody's participation. We'll see you during the quarter. Thank you very much.

謝謝你，馬克。這是一個很好的總結。我們感謝所有的問題和大家的參與。我們將在本季與您見面。非常感謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

This concludes today's question-and-answer session and conference call. You may disconnect your lines. Thank you for participating, and have a pleasant day.

今天的問答環節和電話會議到此結束。您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與，祝您有個愉快的一天。