RLI Corp (RLI) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and welcome to the RLI Corp. second-quarter earnings teleconference. (Operator Instructions) Before we get started, let me remind everyone that through the course of the teleconference, RLI management may make comments that reflect their intentions, beliefs, and expectations for the future.

早安，歡迎參加 RLI Corp. 第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）在我們開始之前，請允許我提醒大家，在電話會議過程中，RLI 管理層可能會發表反映他們的意圖、信念和對未來的期望的評論。

As always, these forward-looking statements are subject to certain factors and uncertainties which could cause actual results to differ materially. Please refer to the risk factors described in the company's various SEC filings, including in the annual report on Form 10-K as supplemented in Forms 10-Q, all of which should be reviewed carefully. The company has filed a Form 8-K with the Securities and Exchange Commission that contains the press release announcing [fourth-quarter] results.

與往常一樣，這些前瞻性陳述受某些因素和不確定因素的影響，可能導致實際結果大不相同。請參閱本公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的各項文件中所述的風險因素，包括10-K表格年度報告和10-Q表格補充文件中所述的風險因素，所有這些都應仔細審查。該公司已向美國證券交易委員會提交了 8-K 表格，其中包含宣布 [第四季度] 業績的新聞稿。

During the call, RLI management may refer to operating earnings and earnings per share from operations, which are non-GAAP measures of financial results. RLI's operating earnings and earnings per share from operations consist of net earnings after the elimination of after-tax realized gains or losses and after-tax unrealized gains or losses on equity securities.

在電話會議中，RLI 管理階層可能會提及營業利潤和每股營業利潤，這些都是非 GAAP 財務績效指標。RLI 的營業利潤和每股營業利潤包括消除稅後已實現損益和稅後權益證券未實現損益後的淨利。

RLI's management believes these measures are useful in gauging core operating performance across reporting periods that may not be comparable to other companies' definitions of operating earnings. The Form 8-K contains a reconciliation between operating earnings and net earnings. The Form 8-K and press release are available at the company's website at www.rlicorp.com.

RLI 的管理層認為，這些指標有助於衡量報告期間的核心營運業績，而這些業績可能與其他公司的營運收益定義無法進行比較。8-K 表格包含營業收入和淨收入之間的對帳。8-K 表格和新聞稿可在公司網站 www.rlicorp.com 上查閱。

I will now turn the conference over to RLI's Chief Investment Officer and Treasurer, Mr. Aaron Diefenthaler. Please go ahead.

現在，我將會議交給 RLI 的首席投資長兼財務主管 Aaron Diefenthaler 先生。請繼續。

Good morning, all. We hope everyone's having a great summer. We appreciate you joining us to review RLI's results for the second quarter and first half of 2025. We have the usual participation for today's call: Craig Kliethermes, President and CEO; Jen Klobnak, Chief Operating Officer; and Todd Bryant, Chief Financial Officer.

大家早安。我們希望每個人都度過一個愉快的夏天。感謝您與我們一起回顧 RLI 2025 年第二季和上半年的業績。今天的電話會議參與者包括：總裁兼執行長 Craig Kliethermes、營運長 Jen Klobnak 和財務長 Todd Bryant。

In typical form, our agenda will begin with Craig offering some overall remarks, Todd will outline the financial results, and Jen will present color on market conditions and our product portfolio. We will then have the operator open the line for questions, and Craig will close with some final thoughts. Craig?

通常情況下，我們的議程將以 Craig 提供一些總體評論開始，Todd 將概述財務結果，然後 Jen 將介紹市場狀況和我們的產品組合。然後，我們將讓接線員開始回答問題，最後 Craig 會發表一些最後的想法。 Craig？

Well, thank you, Aaron. And good morning, everyone. We appreciate your participation on today's call and look forward to addressing your questions after Todd and Jen walk through our results. We are pleased with our second-quarter results, which include an 84.5 combined ratio and underwriting profitability across all segments. While top-line growth was flat, reflecting significant softening in the commercial property market, we continue to see healthy underlying growth across most of our diversified niche product portfolio.

好吧，謝謝你，亞倫。大家早安。我們感謝您參加今天的電話會議，並期待在 Todd 和 Jen 介紹我們的結果後解答您的問題。我們對第二季的業績感到滿意，其中包括 84.5 的綜合成本率和所有部門的承保盈利能力。雖然營業收入成長持平，反映出商業房地產市場的明顯疲軟，但我們的大多數多元化利基產品組合仍然保持著健康的潛在成長。

Year-to-date, book value per share has grown 16%, inclusive of dividends on an 82 combined ratio and double-digit growth in net investment income. At RLI, we take a long-term view with a focus on discipline, continuous improvement, and sustainability. We concentrate on what we can control and adjust our strategy as market conditions evolve.

年初至今，每股帳面價值已成長 16%，其中包括 82 的綜合比率股息和兩位數的淨投資收益成長。在 RLI，我們著眼長遠，注重紀律、持續改善和永續性。我們專注於我們能夠控制的事情，並根據市場狀況的變化調整我們的策略。

For example, in wheels-based exposures where legal system abuse is prevalent, we're taking significant rates and being more selective. In Property, we're choosing not to compete where the risk-reward profile doesn't make sense. Strong companies are willing to address challenges head-on, pulling back where needed, and leading into the products where the risk-return is in balance. That's how we operate and how we are incentivized, prioritizing profitability and long-term value creation over short-term results.

例如，在法律系統濫用盛行的車輪式風險中，我們採取了相當高的利率，並且更有選擇性。在房地產領域，我們選擇不參與風險回報不合理的競爭。強大的公司願意麵對挑戰，在需要的時候撤退，並引入風險回報平衡的產品。這就是我們的營運方式和激勵方式，我們優先考慮獲利能力和長期價值創造，而不是短期結果。

Despite some select challenges, we still see attractive opportunities across most of our portfolio. Our success is not measured by being the largest market but by consistently delivering strong, profitable results to our shareholders and serving our customers with expertise and care through all market cycles. That is what we will continue to focus on as we have for the last 60 years.

儘管面臨一些挑戰，但我們仍然在大部分投資組合中看到了有吸引力的機會。我們的成功並不在於擁有最大的市場，而是始終如一地為股東提供強勁、盈利的業績，並在所有市場週期中以專業知識和關懷為客戶服務。正如過去 60 年來我們一直關注的一樣，我們也將繼續關注這個問題。

With that, I will turn it over to Todd, who will provide some detail on our financial results. Todd?

說完這些，我將把麥克風交給托德，他將提供有關我們財務表現的一些細節。托德？

Thanks, Craig. Good morning, everyone. Yesterday, we reported second-quarter operating earnings of $0.84 per share, supported by solid underwriting performance and a 16% increase in investment income. As a reminder, per-share data reflects the two-for-one stock split that was due to shareholders at the end of 2024 and distributed in January.

謝謝，克雷格。大家早安。昨天，我們報告第二季營業收益為每股 0.84 美元，這得益於穩健的承保業績和投資收益 16% 的成長。提醒一下，每股數據反映了 2024 年底應向股東支付並於 1 月分發的二拆一股票分割。

Underwriting income benefited from continued growth in earned premium, and positive results on the current accident year were bolstered by favorable development on prior-year's reserves across all three segments. Our total combined ratio was 84.5, up from 81.5 last year, reflecting modest increases in the underlying loss and expense ratios, though both remain in line with expectations. Overall, top line was flat between periods.

承保收入受益於已賺取保費的持續增長，而當前事故年度的積極成果則受到三個部門上一年準備金的良好發展的支持。我們的綜合成本率為84.5，高於去年的81.5，反映出基礎損失率和費用率略有上升，但兩者均符合預期。整體而言，期內營收持平。

Our Casualty and Surety segments posted growth while Property declined, reflective of increased competition and rate pressure on catastrophe-exposed business. On a GAAP basis, second-quarter net earnings totaled $1.34 per share versus $0.89 in Q2 2024. This comparison was heavily influenced by the relative price performance of equity securities between periods, as $44 million of unrealized equity gains this quarter outpaced the $4 million of unrealized gains for the same period last year.

我們的意外險和保證險部門實現了成長，而財產險部門則出現下滑，這反映出競爭加劇以及受災難影響的業務面臨利率壓力。以 GAAP 計算，第二季淨收益總計每股 1.34 美元，而 2024 年第二季為 0.89 美元。這項比較在很大程度上受到不同時期股權證券相對價格表現的影響，因為本季 4,400 萬美元的未實現股權收益超過了去年同期 400 萬美元的未實現收益。

Turning to segment performance, Property experienced a 10% decline in gross premiums, which was influenced by rate decreases in E&S Property. However, our marine and Hawaii homeowners' products continue to deliver growth. Jen will provide additional detail on subsegment market conditions shortly.

談到分部業績，財產險的毛保費下降了 10%，這是受到 E&S 財產險費率下降的影響。然而，我們的船舶和夏威夷房主產品仍持續實現成長。Jen 很快就會提供有關細分市場狀況的更多詳細資訊。

Contributing to Property's bottom line was $10 million of favorable prior year's development, including $5 million in reductions related to Hurricane Helene, where losses continued to trend below initial estimates. Storm losses and catastrophe events in the quarter totaled $12.5 million, which was marginally below last year. While the loss ratio improved slightly, the expense ratio increased 3 points, driven by changes in our reinsurance and higher acquisition-related expenses. All in, Property continued its strong performance, posting a 62 combined ratio in the quarter.

房地產業務的盈利得益於上一年度 1000 萬美元的良好發展，其中包括與颶風海倫相關的 500 萬美元減免，該業務的損失持續低於最初的估計。本季風暴損失和災難事件總計 1,250 萬美元，略低於去年同期。雖然損失率略有改善，但由於再保險變動和收購相關費用增加，費用率增加了 3 個百分點。總體而言，房地產行業持續保持強勁表現，本季綜合比率為 62。

In Casualty, gross premiums advanced 7%, and we posted a 96.5 combined ratio for Q2. The segment benefited from $15.5 million of favorable prior year's reserve development, partially offset by a higher underlying loss ratio and $1.5 million in Q2 catastrophe losses related to certain package policies. Prior years' reserve benefits were realized across multiple products with notable contributions from general liability, excess liability, and personal umbrella.

在意外險方面，毛保費上漲了 7%，第二季的綜合成本率為 96.5。該部門受益於去年 1,550 萬美元的有利儲備金發展，但部分被更高的基礎損失率和第二季度與某些一攬子政策相關的 150 萬美元災難損失所抵消。前幾年的儲備收益是透過多種產品實現的，其中一般責任險、超額責任險和個人傘險的貢獻顯著。

We continue to closely monitor wheels-based exposures, an area we've discussed previously at length. Reserve actions taken in the fourth quarter of 2024 appear to be sufficient, and we continue to approach more challenged coverages with rate increases and underwriting actions to address the current loss environment.

我們將繼續密切監測基於車輪的暴露情況，我們之前已經詳細討論過這個領域。2024 年第四季採取的準備金行動似乎已經足夠，我們將繼續透過提高費率和承保行動來應對更具挑戰性的承保範圍，以應對當前的損失環境。

Surety's gross premium was up 7% over last year, with all sub-segments experiencing growth. The combined ratio for the quarter was 87.9, and underwriting income benefited from $2.3 million of favorable reserve development. The expense ratio rose, reflecting higher acquisition costs and increased investments in technology and people.

保證保險的毛保費比去年上漲了 7%，所有子部門都成長。本季的綜合比率為 87.9，承保收入受益於 230 萬美元的有利準備金發展。費用率上升，反映出收購成本增加以及技術和人員投資增加。

Turning to investments, operating cash flow for Q2 totaled $175 million, up $33 million from last year, providing a solid foundation for continued portfolio activity. April's market volatility offered an opportunity to attractively add to our equity allocation, while the balance of the quarter was again focused on high-quality fixed income, where treasuries and corporate bonds governed most of the effort to add income. Average purchase yields were 4.7% in the quarter, which is 70 basis points above our book yield.

談到投資，第二季的營運現金流總計 1.75 億美元，比去年增加了 3,300 萬美元，為持續的投資組合活動奠定了堅實的基礎。四月份的市場波動為我們提供了一個增加股票配置的機會，而本季的餘額再次集中於高品質固定收益，其中國債和公司債佔據了增加收入的大部分努力。本季平均購買收益率為 4.7%，比我們的帳面收益率高出 70 個基點。

On a total return basis, the market's welcome recovery in May and June resulted in a positive 2.9% return for the quarter, capping an excellent first half of the year. Beyond our traditional invested assets, our investee earnings totaled $2.5 million in the quarter. Incorporating comprehensive earnings of $1.55 per share and adjusting for dividends, book value per share increased 16% from year-end 2024. All in, we are pleased with our second-quarter and first-half performance.

從總回報率來看，5 月和 6 月市場出現可喜的復甦，帶動本季回報率達到正 2.9%，為今年上半年的出色表現畫上了圓滿的句號。除了我們傳統的投資資產外，本季我們的投資對象收益總計 250 萬美元。計入每股 1.55 美元的綜合收益並根據股息進行調整，每股帳面價值較 2024 年底增長 16%。總的來說，我們對第二季和上半年的表現感到滿意。

And with that, I'll turn the call over to Jen. Jen?

說完這些，我會把電話轉給 Jen。珍？

Thank you, Todd. Two of our three segments experienced solid growth in the quarter, with a 7% increase in premiums, both Casualty and Surety. This was offset by anticipated headwinds for E&S Property where market conditions remain challenging. As a reminder, we do not have top-line goals that are aligned. Our product leaders who are closest to the business determine when is the right time to grow to take advantage of attractive market conditions and when it is time to shrink because terms and conditions reduce the likelihood of producing an underwriting profit.

謝謝你，托德。我們三個部門中的兩個在本季度實現了穩健增長，意外險和保證險的保費均增長了 7%。但這情況被 E&S Property 預期的逆風所抵消，因為市場狀況仍充滿挑戰。提醒一下，我們沒有一致的頂線目標。我們最接近業務的產品領導者決定何時是利用有吸引力的市場條件進行成長的最佳時機，何時是收縮的最佳時機，因為條款和條件會降低產生承保利潤的可能性。

We do not have a targeted mix of business between Property, Surety, and Casualty. Again, the mix that we produce is based on the relative opportunities in each of those segments and has fluctuated materially over market cycles. In the most recent hard market, we grew our E&S Property group to take advantage of the attractive market conditions until it became a large part of our product portfolio as it was producing considerable returns. Now as conditions soften, our underwriters are emphasizing selection and discipline.

我們沒有針對財產險、保證險和意外險進行有針對性的業務組合。再次強調，我們所製定的組合是基於每個細分市場的相對機會，並且會隨著市場週期而發生重大波動。在最近的艱難市場中，我們擴大了 E&S 房地產集團，以利用有吸引力的市場條件，直到它成為我們產品組合的重要組成部分，因為它產生了可觀的回報。現在，隨著條件的緩和，我們的核保人正在強調選擇和紀律。

In total, the Property segment's premium declined by 10% in the quarter, influenced by win rates, which were down 13% compared to last year. Competition has increased from MGAs and admitted carriers, where abundant capacity has been less disciplined on rates, and more importantly, terms and conditions. Entering the hurricane season, our exposure is down 10% from year-end, while rates on business we can write are still above our benchmark pricing and include acceptable terms and conditions.

整體而言，受勝率影響，本季房地產部門的保費下降了 10%，與去年相比，勝率下降了 13%。來自總代理協會和特許承運人的競爭日益激烈，這些承運人擁有充足的運力，但對費率，更重要的是，條款和條件的約束卻不那麼嚴格。進入颶風季節，我們的風險敞口比年底下降了 10%，而我們可以承保的業務費率仍然高於基準定價，並包括可接受的條款和條件。

The earthquake market is also challenging, as more small businesses in California decide to self-insure this payroll. Submissions are down 7%, while rates are down 9% in the quarter. Our brokers know we are a stable market, providing excellent service, who will pay what we owe when claims arise. We are well-positioned to support our insurers should there be events that hit our shores this year, and we continue to resolve claims from prior events in a timely and dependable manner.

地震市場也充滿挑戰，因為加州越來越多的小企業決定自行核保薪資單。本季提交量下降了 7%，費率下降了 9%。我們的經紀人知道我們是一個穩定的市場，提供優質的服務，當索賠發生時，他們會支付我們所欠的款項。如果今年我國發生重大事件，我們有能力為我們的保險公司提供支持，並且我們將繼續及時可靠地解決先前事件造成的索賠。

Our other product offerings within the Property segment continue to find profitable growth opportunities. Marine's premium was up 2% in the quarter, driven by inland marine, while competition has increased in the ocean cargo space. Hawaii homeowners' premium is up 35% this quarter as we continue to roll over business from markets that withdrew or retracted after the Maui wildfires. Our team's dedication to service is helping us win new business, and we achieved a 16% rate increase in the quarter. Loss activity for these products has been as expected, and they contributed nicely to our bottom line.

我們在房地產領域的其他產品繼續尋找有利可圖的成長機會。受內陸海運的推動，本季海運保費上漲了 2%，而海運貨運領域的競爭也加劇了。由於我們繼續承接在毛伊島野火之後撤離或收縮的市場的業務，夏威夷房主的保費本季上漲了 35%。我們團隊致力於服務，幫助我們贏得新業務，並且我們在本季度實現了 16% 的成長率。這些產品的損失活動符合預期，並且為我們的獲利做出了巨大貢獻。

The Surety statement premium grew 7% in the quarter led by our Commercial Surety book. We renewed our reinsurance treaty effective April 1 and purchased more limits so we can offer additional support as our accounts bonding needs grow. Our Contract Surety premium moderated in the quarter after strong growth the last few years. We are continuously reviewing credit quality and supporting contractors to build projects that are appropriately sized for their capabilities.

本季度，在商業擔保帳簿的帶動下，擔保聲明保費增加了 7%。我們於 4 月 1 日續簽了再保險合同，並購買了更多限額，以便隨著我們的帳戶擔保需求的增長，我們可以提供額外的支持。在經歷了過去幾年的強勁增長之後，我們的合約保證金保費在本季度有所緩和。我們不斷審查信用品質並支持承包商建立適合其能力的項目。

Several new bonding requirements, continuous marketing efforts, and easy-to-use digital tools are helping us win business in this segment. We're looking for more growth in this high-performing segment and are focused on enhancing our capabilities for our producers and principals. We are also improving processes for our underwriters, so they have more time to focus on underwriting and servicing our customers.

一些新的黏合要求、持續的行銷努力以及易於使用的數位工具正在幫助我們在這一領域贏得業務。我們希望在這個高績效領域中實現更多成長，並致力於提高我們為生產商和委託人提供的能力。我們也正在改善核保人員的流程，以便他們有更多時間專注於承保和服務我們的客戶。

Casualty premium also grew by 7% in the quarter. Personal umbrella led the way with 24% growth, including a 9% rate increase. We have an approved rate filing with effective rates starting July 1 that will positively impact the second half of this year. New business policy counts in certain venues have slowed as we have increased required underlying limits and worked with our producers to diversify our business geographically.

本季意外險保費也成長了 7%。個人傘險漲幅最大，達 24%，其中費率上漲 9%。我們已獲批准的利率申報將從 7 月 1 日起生效，這將對今年下半年產生正面影響。由於我們提高了所需的基本限額，並與生產商合作實現業務的地域多元化，某些場所的新業務政策數量有所放緩。

We are continuously learning from our data and refining our approach to the market. Our E&S Casualty division, which writes primary and excess liability coverage, generated strong growth and underwriting profit in the quarter. The top line was up 13% as we stay in front of our producers and ask for business, resulting in an increase in submissions of over 20%.

我們不斷從數據中學習，不斷完善市場策略。我們的環境與社會意外險部門（負責承保主要責任險和超額責任險）在本季度實現了強勁增長，並實現了承保利潤。由於我們堅持與生產商保持聯繫並尋求業務，因此收入增長了 13%，提交量增加了 20% 以上。

Although we're seeing opportunities for growth throughout the country, we are competing against both standard and non-admitted markets who are leveraging their auto offerings to win the liability business. We are a bit more cautious on auto coverages, as this exposure requires specialized underwriting to be successful. Our primary and excess teams collaborate to offer our producers a comprehensive, service-oriented solution.

儘管我們在全國範圍內看到了成長機會，但我們面臨的競爭既有標準市場，也有非認可市場，這些市場正在利用其汽車保險產品來贏得責任險業務。我們對汽車保險業務更加謹慎，因為這類業務需要專業的核保才能成功。我們的主要團隊和多餘的團隊合作為我們的生產者提供全面的、以服務為導向的解決方案。

Speaking of auto exposure, rates in our transportation division were up 12% in an environment that remains highly competitive. We have had a handful of accounts cancel and move mid-term for less premium and have lost accounts at renewals due to competition. We manage this business with a bottom line in mind and have leaned into helping our insurers improve their safety practices through our in-house experienced loss control team. We believe our focus on safety is a differentiator and attracts better risk.

說到汽車險，在競爭仍然激烈的環境下，我們運輸部門的保費上漲了12%。我們有一些客戶在中期取消了保單，並為了降低保費而轉保，也有一些客戶在續保時因為競爭而流失。我們在管理這項業務時始終牢記底線，並致力於透過我們內部經驗豐富的損失控制團隊幫助我們的保險公司改善他們的安全實踐。我們相信，我們對安全的關注是一個差異化因素，可以吸引更大的風險。

With elevated severity in the auto industry, we use both rate increases and risk selection to target a profitable bottom line. For all auto coverages across our portfolio, we achieved 14% rate increases in the second quarter. We are sharing information across business units related to application questions, underwriting guidelines, and claim experience, so our underwriters can learn from each other.

隨著汽車產業情勢的嚴峻，我們利用利率上調和風險選擇來實現獲利目標。對於我們投資組合中的所有汽車保險，我們在第二季實現了 14% 的費率上漲。我們正在跨業務部門共享與申請問題、承保指南和索賠經驗相關的信息，以便我們的承保人可以相互學習。

We are being more selective on offering auto liability coverage in our package products. Overall, we had a great underwriting result in the second quarter. We stuck to our business model of making decisions with our bottom line and long-term success in mind. We're looking for underwriters who have a similar mindset and are always open to growing in new classes if we find the right talent.

我們在套餐產品中提供汽車責任險時更加挑剔。整體而言，我們第二季的承保業績非常好。我們堅持我們的商業模式，在做決策時考慮底線和長期成功。我們正在尋找具有類似思維方式的承銷商，如果我們找到合適的人才，他們總是願意在新的領域中成長。

While those up-and-coming property market conditions create headwinds for our top line, we have planted seeds throughout our portfolio that will grow over time under the right conditions. We've added coverages or found adjacencies that help our producers solve our customers' needs. We have a strong community that works together to support our customers and each other. We see opportunities to profitably grow in areas of our portfolio where it makes sense as we navigate more volatile market conditions.

儘管這些新興的房地產市場條件為我們的營收帶來了阻力，但我們在整個投資組合中播下了種子，這些種子將在適當的條件下隨著時間的推移而增長。我們增加了覆蓋範圍或找到了鄰接點，以幫助我們的生產商解決客戶的需求。我們擁有一個強大的社區，共同努力為我們的客戶和彼此提供支援。隨著市場環境變得更加動盪，我們發現投資組合中的某些領域存在獲利成長的機會。

And now I'll turn the call over to the moderator to open it up for questions.

現在我將把電話交給主持人，開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Gregory Peters, Raymond James.

（操作員指示）格雷戈里·彼得斯、雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Great. Good morning, everyone. I want to go back to the comments on -- you talked about higher acquisition costs in Property. Maybe you can just broaden that out. Just give us some color on what's going on, on the acquisition costs front, both in Property and in Casualty. Are you seeing pressure in the Casualty side, considering where rates are, or is that declining? Just give us a sense of how things are moving there.

偉大的。大家早安。我想回到剛才的評論——您談到了房地產收購成本更高。也許你可以擴大這個範圍。請向我們介紹一下財產險和意外險收購成本方面的情況。考慮到目前的費率水平，您是否認為意外險方面面臨壓力，或者正在下降？只需讓我們了解一下那裡的情況進展即可。

I'll start a little bit, Greg. I think Jen will have some additional flavor there. There is some pressure on the commission side, I would say, in terms of Property and Surety from that standpoint. You are seeing a little bit of a mixed shift as well. That's probably more noticeable on the Surety side. We're writing less energy, and that came with a fairly low acquisition expense ratio.

我先開始一點，格雷格。我認為 Jen 會有一些額外的味道。從這個角度來看，我想說，在財產和擔保方面，佣金方面存在一些壓力。您還會看到一些混合轉變。這在保證方面可能更為明顯。我們的能源業務減少了，但收購費用率相當低。

I think also on Surety, we've talked about it, and Jen mentioned it as well in her openers, the investments in the technology, the digital experience, the customer relationship management. We've invested heavily in there. So you're seeing some in terms of people, in terms of technology, and in terms of some pressure on the commission side as well in both of those segments.

我認為我們在 Surety 上也討論過這個問題，Jen 在她的開場白中也提到了這一點，包括對技術、數位體驗、客戶關係管理的投資。我們在那裡投入了大量資金。因此，您會看到在人員方面、技術方面以及佣金方面這兩個方面都存在一些壓力。

And then more generally, if you look our -- across all segments, our book value growth in the quarter was pretty high. And some of those retirement and incentive plans have that. The growth and book value is a component, so that broadly would cross over all segments. I think Jen has additional flavor there.

更普遍地講，如果你看一下我們所有的部門，你會發現本季我們的帳面價值成長相當高。一些退休和激勵計劃都有這樣的規定。成長和帳面價值是一個組成部分，因此大致涵蓋所有部分。我認為 Jen 在這方面有額外的特色。

Yes, the only thing I would add is we did, I'll say, buy a little more reinsurance in terms of filling out a little bit our co-participations under our cap treaty as well as the additional limit we bought in Surety, and so that -- on a net basis, that makes our expense rate move a little bit more fast.

是的，我唯一要補充的是，我們確實購買了更多的再保險，包括根據我們的上限條約填寫我們的共同參與以及我們在保證金中購買的額外限額，這樣，從淨額來看，這使得我們的費用率變化得更快一些。

Got it. There's obviously -- well, there's a lot of discussion in the marketplace about the softening of pricing in certain lines. And obviously, Casualty seems to be holding up well. Maybe you could give us some perspective on where the pricing pressure is coming. Is it more in the wholesale brokerage channel? Is it more the retail channel? Just give us some perspective on how pricing is shaking out by distribution channel.

知道了。顯然，市場上有很多關於某些產品線定價軟化的討論。顯然，《急診室的故事》表現不錯。也許您可以給我們一些關於定價壓力來自哪裡的看法。批發經紀管道更多嗎？它更多的是零售通路嗎？請向我們介紹一下分銷通路對定價的影響。

That's an interesting question. I would say I'm not sure if we can point to a distribution channel. We think about it more in our segments or in our products. I think, generally, there's just been a lot more competition in certain places. For example, in the E&S Property space that we compete in, we've had about 20 new entrants in that space over the last two years. That's a combination of new MGAs or carriers that are re-entering that space because they saw that the returns were so good. And so that has pressured those rates just with more mouths to feed there.

這是一個有趣的問題。我想說我不確定我們是否可以指出分銷管道。我們在我們的領域或產品中對此進行了更多的思考。我認為，整體而言，某些地方的競爭變得更加激烈。例如，在我們參與競爭的 E&S 房地產領域，過去兩年內已經有大約 20 家新進者。這是由於新的 MGAs 或承運商重新進入該領域，因為他們看到回報非常好。因此，由於需要養活更多的人，這些費率受到了壓力。

On the cash side, sometimes it's hard for us to relate rate change, especially if you're trying to compare to other carriers because that depends on the coverage we provide. We tailor our coverage, for example, in our E&S Casualty group to where we offer probably slimmer coverage. We actually charge maybe a little bit less because we're offering less coverage.

在現金方面，有時我們很難關聯費率變化，特別是當您嘗試與其他業者進行比較時，因為這取決於我們提供的覆蓋範圍。例如，我們會根據 E&S 意外險組的具體情況調整保險範圍，以便提供更精準的保險。實際上，由於我們提供的覆蓋範圍較小，因此我們的收費可能要低一些。

And when you look at our rate change, it's a bit unremarkable because we're starting from a position where we tend to make an underwriting profit. Other carriers over the last couple of years have disclosed adverse development and construction liability coverages, and so they're probably needing to get more rate in that space.

當您查看我們的利率變化時，您會發現它有點不起眼，因為我們是從傾向於獲得承保利潤的立場開始的。在過去幾年中，其他保險公司揭露了不利的開發和建築責任保險範圍，因此他們可能需要在該領域獲得更高的費率。

So we look at it from the standpoint of rate adequacy. We balance the pressure to give back some rate with risk selection components. So there are walk-away rates that we have in most of our lines of business that the actuaries help describe to the underwriters so that we understand where we're at from a profitability standpoint and where is that relative to where the market is at that point. So that's kind of an environment description of what we're dealing with. I don't know if you have any follow-up questions.

因此，我們從利率充足性的角度來看這個問題。我們透過風險選擇組件來平衡返還一定利率的壓力。因此，我們大多數業務線都存在放棄率，精算師會幫助向承保人描述這些放棄率，以便我們從盈利角度了解我們所處的位置，以及相對於當時的市場位置。這就是我們正在處理的環境描述。我不知道您是否還有其他問題。

I guess just related to that, I'm just trying to get the sense with rates going down in certain lines, there's always the profit-sharing component and contingent commission component. And I'm just wondering how that settles out with the downward rate pressure coming in the certain lines of business.

我想與此相關的是，我只是想知道，隨著某些行業的利率下降，總是存在利潤分享部分和或有佣金部分。我只是想知道，這如何應對某些業務領域面臨的利率下行壓力。

Yes, if you look at our portfolio, we don't have many lines that actually have rate decreases going on. We have a very small book of work comp that covers our architects and engineers. And so that obviously has had rate pressure over the last few years. In our D&O portfolio, our rate for this quarter was actually minus 2%, so it's coming back towards flat. And so the only other piece of the portfolio to speak of in terms of rate decreases would be the E&S Property component, which I've already spoken of.

是的，如果你看看我們的投資組合，你會發現我們並沒有太多的線路真正在降低利率。我們有一本很小的工傷賠償手冊，涵蓋了我們的建築師和工程師。因此，過去幾年顯然帶來了利率壓力。在我們的 D&O 投資組合中，本季的利率實際上是-2%，因此正在回落至持平狀態。因此，就利率下降而言，投資組合中唯一值得一提的其他部分是 E&S 房地產部分，我已經提到過。

Okay. Thanks for the answers.

好的。謝謝您的回答。

Matt Carletti, Citizens.

馬特·卡萊蒂，公民。

Good morning. Apologies for following up with another kind of softball marshmallow market condition question. I think we got the color on Property. I was hoping, Jen or Craig, you could maybe dig in a little more on Casualty. And specifically, as you look at, let's say, some of the bigger pockets there, so transportation and general casualty and things like that, for lack of a better question, what inning do you think you're in?

早安.抱歉，我又問了另一個關於壘球棉花糖市場狀況的問題。我想我們已經了解了財產的顏色。我希望，Jen 或 Craig，你們可以對《急診室的故事》有更深入的了解。具體來說，當您看到一些較大的領域，例如運輸和一般傷亡之類的，由於沒有更好的問題，您認為自己處於什麼？

How do you do loss cost trends? Do you foresee the need for continued sizable rate in a lot of those lines to keep up with loss cost trend or maybe even get back to acceptable returns in certain areas? Or do you feel maybe we're a little closer -- a little closer to where the Property has gotten to where you can see the peak in sight?

您如何了解損失成本趨勢？您是否預見到許多此類業務需要持續維持相當大的利率，以跟上損失成本趨勢，甚至在某些領域恢復到可接受的回報？或者您覺得我們可能更接近一點了——更接近該地產已經達到的頂峰？

So Matt, I'll start maybe on the transportation front. I think you asked about loss cost trends. I mean, we still see fairly significant double-digit inflation on commercial vehicles. We're in the trucking space, the public auto space, the -- well, I'd say bus space more than -- we're not in taxis or anything like that, and then some specialty commercial auto stuff.

那麼馬特，我可能從交通方面開始。我想您問的是損失成本趨勢。我的意思是，我們仍然看到商用車的通貨膨脹率相當高，達到兩位數。我們涉足卡車運輸領域、公共交通領域，嗯，我想說更多的是公車領域，我們不涉足出租車或類似的東西，然後是一些專業的商用汽車領域。

I could tell you our underwriters are assuming double-digit loss cost inflation. So that's why -- I mean, I think Jen reported a -- I don't remember, 12% or 13% or 14% rate increase for the quarter, but we continue. That's really the underwriters are driven by getting those increases. Now we are running into -- still running into competition there, and I know the previous question was about MGA's, I think, a little bit, and we're still seeing a lot of MGA competition on the transportation front, the commercial auto front, which is shocking, given we think that's like ground zero for some of this legal system abuse.

我可以告訴你，我們的核保人假設損失成本通膨率達到兩位數。所以這就是為什麼——我的意思是，我認為 Jen 報告了——我不記得了，本季利率上漲了 12% 還是 13% 或 14%，但我們會繼續。這確實是承銷商獲得這些成長的動力。現在我們仍然在那裡面臨競爭，我知道之前的問題是關於 MGA 的，我想，我們仍然看到在運輸方面、商用汽車方面有很多 MGA 競爭，這是令人震驚的，因為我們認為這些是一些法律制度濫用的爆發點。

But sometimes, people have to feel the pain before they learn a lesson. So our underwriters are willing to walk away from the business if they're not getting the increase they need. They're also trying to provide loss control services to keep the cost down for them. And then I'd say at the end of the day, some of it's about selection, right?

但有時，人們必須先經歷痛苦才能學到教訓。因此，如果我們的核保人得不到所需的增幅，他們願意放棄這項業務。他們也嘗試提供損失控制服務以降低成本。然後我想說，歸根結底，其中一些與選擇有關，對嗎？

We think we have some of the best underwriters in the business that are narrow and deep in a given space. They know which accounts they can still maybe only get a moderate rate increase on but still be able to be profitable, whereas there are some maybe 30%, 40% rate increases to be profitable. And in those cases, we're probably not going to be the one that writes that account. I don't know, Jen, do you want to comment about any of the other?

我們認為，我們擁有業界最優秀的承銷商，他們在特定領域擁有精深的專業知識。他們知道哪些帳戶可能只能獲得適度的利率成長，但仍能獲利，而有些帳戶可能需要獲得 30%、40% 的利率成長才能獲利。在這種情況下，我們可能不會成為撰寫該報道的人。我不知道，Jen，你想對其他任何事情發表評論嗎？

The other thing I would add is the biggest pressure is on those largest accounts. Other companies or MGAs are looking for premium. And so any account that's north of $1 million dollars in premium is really targeted. And we have lost a few of those. And so our book has shrunk a bit, but it's really made up of more smaller accounts then, as opposed to some of those bigger accounts that we used to have. So there has been a shift a bit in our mix. But having said that, again, our underwriters are focused on rate and risk selection. And both of those are making an impact to make sure that we're staying ahead of trends in the industry.

我想補充的另一件事是，最大的壓力來自於那些最大的帳戶。其他公司或 MGAs 正在尋求溢價。因此，任何保費超過 100 萬美元的帳戶都是真正的目標。我們已經失去了其中的一些。因此，我們的帳簿縮水了一點，但實際上是由更多較小的帳戶組成的，而不是我們以前擁有的一些較大的帳戶。因此我們的組合發生了一些變化。但話雖如此，我們的承保人仍然專注於利率和風險選擇。這兩者都產生了影響，以確保我們始終處於行業領先地位。

Great. That's very helpful. Thank you. Appreciate it.

偉大的。這非常有幫助。謝謝。非常感謝。

Meyer Shields, KBW.

邁耶希爾茲，KBW。

Great. Thanks, and good morning. I think it might have been Jen who touched a little bit on mixed shift within Surety. And I was hoping you could dig a little bit deeper. I'm just trying to understand the change in the acting-year loss ratio or acting-year combined ratio compared to the first quarter, because it does look like it was from the expense side.

偉大的。謝謝，早安。我認為可能是 Jen 對 Surety 內部的混合輪班做了一些觸動。我希望你能挖掘得更深入一些。我只是想了解與第一季相比，代理年度損失率或代理年度綜合比率的變化，因為它看起來確實像是從費用方面來看的。

Well, I'll tell you, last year, I think it was in the first quarter, we did recognize a large commercial Surety loss, and so that affected the loss ratio as well as we had some reinstatement premium, which would have affected the expense ratio in that first quarter. When you compare six months to six months, that doesn't stand out quite as much. But I think Surety in terms of the loss ratio and expense ratio, part of it is this additional reinsurance layer that we purchased as of April 1. And so there's a little more cost with that top layer of reinsurance.

好吧，我告訴你，去年，我想是在第一季度，我們確實確認了一筆大額的商業保證金損失，這影響了損失率，而且我們還有一些恢復保費，這會影響第一季度的費用率。當你將六個月與六個月進行比較時，這並不那麼突出。但我認為，就損失率和費用率而言，保證金的一部分是我們在 4 月 1 日購買的額外再保險層。因此，最高層的再保險成本會稍微高一些。

In terms of the mix, Contract Surety has grown quite a bit these last couple of years, both from our own investment in people and marketing and providing good service, but also inflation that kind of ran at a higher level the last few years. But commercial has kept up to some extent too. We've also invested in people in that space and worked closely with our producers to make sure that we're getting to see business.

就組合而言，合約擔保在過去幾年中取得了相當大的成長，這既得益於我們在人員和行銷方面的投資以及提供良好的服務，也得益於過去幾年通貨膨脹率處於較高水平。但商業也在一定程度上保持了同步。我們也對該領域的人才進行了投資，並與我們的生產商密切合作，以確保我們能夠看到業務。

We also have a nice portfolio of transactional business where we've ramped up some of the capabilities available to our producers so they can transact that business online very easily. So the combination of all those things, I would say, has grown our portfolio. I don't actually think the mix within there has changed that much, with the exception of retracting a bit from the old oil and gas component and really shifting more towards solar farm implementations and things of that nature that come at a different cost structure.

我們還擁有良好的交易業務組合，其中我們增強了生產商可用的一些功能，以便他們可以非常輕鬆地在線開展業務。所以我想說，所有這些因素的結合擴大了我們的投資組合。我實際上並不認為其中的結構發生了太大變化，除了從舊的石油和天然氣成分中抽出一點，並真正轉向太陽能發電場實施和具有不同成本結構的類似事物。

Yes, the other came there on the log. (multiple speakers) We did -- yes, I'm sorry. The other thing on the loss side is we did have quite a bit larger favorable development in the first quarter on Surety than in the second quarter. Both were favorable, but first quarter was up quite a bit. You see that in the loss ratio. The expense ratio, I think Jen noted several things there.

是的，另一個人來到了原木那裡。（多位發言者）我們確實這麼做了──是的，我很抱歉。損失方面的另一件事是，我們在第一季在 Surety 方面的有利發展確實比第二季大得多。兩者都很有利，但第一季成長幅度較大。您可以從損失率中看到這一點。關於費用率，我認為 Jen 在那裡指出了幾件事。

It's not significantly different if I look at the commission-side premium tax and the other policy acquisition than what it was in the first quarter. A bit higher, but those investments continue on that technology side. That ease of doing business is very important. And then investing in new relationships, I think that was mentioned. So those things are all things that we're continuing to invest in and willing to trade a bit that higher expense ratio for that very low loss ratio.

如果我看一下佣金方面的保費稅和其他保單收購，它與第一季的情況並沒有太大不同。稍微高一點，但這些投資仍在技術方面繼續。營商便利非常重要。然後投資新的關係，我認為這是提到的。所以這些都是我們會繼續投資的，並且願意用稍高的費用率來換取非常低的損失率。

Okay, that is very helpful. I appreciate that. Second question, we've had, I guess, a couple of states with some tort reform go through, and I'm wondering whether, at this point -- I know it's early. That's why I'm asking the question. Is it possible to see any benefits from that in terms of actual loss emergence?

好的，這非常有幫助。我很感激。第二個問題，我想，我們已經有幾個州進行了一些侵權法改革，我想知道，現在——我知道現在還為時過早。這就是我問這個問題的原因。從實際損失出現的角度來看，這樣做是否能帶來好處？

Meyer, this is Craig. I mean, I think -- and Jen, you can jump in here too. I mean, Georgia is certainly too early, Louisiana too early. Although it does change a bit your mindset of your underwriters, I think there's a greater willingness to maybe lean into those markets, whereas before they were much more cautious. I think on the Florida side, I think certainly, anecdotally, I have heard from some of our claim people that we've been able to benefit from some of the tort reform that was done down there, which increases the confidence of your underwriting team, obviously, and allows them to have a greater desire to write business down there.

邁耶，這是克雷格。我的意思是，我認為──Jen，你也可以加入進來。我的意思是，喬治亞州肯定太早了，路易斯安那州也太早了。儘管這確實會稍微改變承銷商的心態，但我認為他們更願意傾向於進入這些市場，而之前他們則更加謹慎。我認為在佛羅裡達方面，當然，從傳聞來看，我從我們的一些索賠人員那裡聽說，我們已經能夠從那裡進行的一些侵權行為改革中受益，這顯然增加了承保團隊的信心，並使他們更願意在那裡開展業務。

So obviously, there's constant pressure on the other side trying to peel back some of that tort reform, which we hope people are patient because I think it's already resulting in reduced rates certainly in Property in Florida. Some of it's being driven by that and then also some on cash. It's taking a little pressure off the rate need. So we'd like more states to do it. I don't know that you're going to see it. I know there's a lot of push around third-party litigation financing, at least to get more disclosure across many different states.

因此，顯然，另一方不斷面臨壓力，試圖取消一些侵權法改革，我們希望人們保持耐心，因為我認為這已經導致佛羅裡達州的房地產稅率降低。部分原因是受此驅動，部分原因是現金驅動。這在一定程度上減輕了利率需求的壓力。因此我們希望更多的州能夠這樣做。我不知道您是否會看到它。我知道第三方訴訟融資面臨很大的推動力，至少是為了在許多不同的州獲得更多資訊的揭露。

I don't know where we are in regards to that being passed, but we think that's pretty important for the industry, so at least we know what we're dealing with, who's on the other side of the table when we're trying to negotiate, whether it's actually an injured party or it's some sovereign wealth fund that's investing in our tort system, which obviously we don't think is a good thing for the industry. It just drives costs up over the long term, and the consumer ends up paying for that, so not a good thing.

我不知道我們在這項法案通過方面進展如何，但我們認為這對行業來說非常重要，這樣至少我們知道我們在處理什麼，當我們試圖談判時，談判桌的另一邊是誰，無論對方實際上是受害方，還是投資於我們侵權法制度的某個主權財富基金，顯然我們認為這對行業來說不是一件好事。從長遠來看，這只會推高成本，最終由消費者來買單，所以這不是好事。

So Jen, do you want to join in there with anything? We're good? Okay. But the [APCI] is very active in trying to lobby on behalf of the insurance industry and do good for the long-term cost to the consumer.

那麼 Jen，你想加入什麼嗎？我們很好嗎？好的。但 [APCI] 非常積極地代表保險業進行遊說，並為消費者的長期成本做出貢獻。

Understood. Thank you so much.

明白了。太感謝了。

(Operator Instructions) Andrew Andersen, Jefferies.

（操作員指示）安德魯·安德森，傑富瑞。

Hey, good morning. I think you've previously talked about construction touching about a third of your business. Could you maybe just talk about what you're seeing in that market? As it seems to be maybe slowing, but the Surety premium is still pretty good, and as is the Casualty side. So just maybe some color on what you're seeing in construction and how that may impact the segments.

嘿，早安。我想您之前曾談到建築業佔您業務的三分之一。您能否談談您在該市場看到的情況？雖然看起來可能正在放緩，但保證金保費仍然相當不錯，意外險方面也是如此。因此，也許您可以稍微了解一下建築業的情況以及這些情況可能對各個細分市場產生的影響。

Sure thing. So it seemed like probably last quarter, there was a bit of a pause as various legislative priorities were taking place at the federal level. There was kind of a pause with uncertainty. But I would say in the second quarter, things have calmed down a bit. And so in our construction book, we participate in a lot of different ways.

當然可以。因此，似乎上個季度出現了一些停頓，因為聯邦層級正在發生各種立法優先事項。出現了一種不確定的停頓。但我想說，到了第二季度，情況已經平靜了一些。因此，在我們的建築書中，我們以多種不同的方式參與。

We got units that are focused on public construction, that's more of our Surety division, and then we also have units focused on private construction. That's more of our E&S and our packages. We've got people who focus on general contractors, we have people who focus on subcontractors, some people focus on the contractor's equipment or builder's risk, so we look at it from a lot of different angles.

我們有專注於公共建築的部門，這更多的是我們的擔保部門，然後我們也有專注於私人建築的部門。這更多是我們的 E&S 和我們的包裹。我們有專注於總承包商的人員，有專注於分包商的人員，還有一些人專注於承包商的設備或建築商的風險，所以我們從很多不同的角度來看待這個問題。

And I would say, generally speaking, the industry appears to be pretty healthy in most regions. I think part of it is that the construction industry is healthy. And then part of our success is that we have emphasized in all of our business units to physically get out and meet with our producers on a regular basis and continue to ask for business.

我想說，總體而言，大多數地區的行業看起來都相當健康。我認為部分原因是建築業健康。我們成功的部分原因是，我們所有業務部門都強調定期與生產商會面並繼續尋求業務。

So that has impacted our submissions. In most of our lines of business, our submissions in that space are up double digits. And so you need to take a look at it in order to write it. And that's been a very positive trend for us. So we're not seeing anything too -- that creates any caution around the growth of that industry. We think it's pretty healthy at this point in time.

所以這影響了我們的提交。在我們的大多數業務領域中，我們在該領域的提交量都成長了兩位數。因此，您需要先查看它才能編寫它。這對我們來說是一個非常積極的趨勢。所以我們也沒有看到任何關於該行業成長的擔憂。我們認為目前它是相當健康的。

Thanks. And then just within Casualty, I think if we take the $1.5 million of cat loss, it kind of gets to a flat ex-cat, ex-PYD loss ratio quarter over quarter. I guess, one, is that a good way of thinking about it for maybe the balance of the year? Because it seems that rate is maybe slowing, and I would imagine you're still holding a pretty high conservative loss trend assumption.

謝謝。然後僅在意外險方面，我認為如果我們承擔 150 萬美元的巨災損失，那麼每個季度的除巨災、除 PYD 之外的損失率就會趨於平穩。我想，首先，這是否是思考今年餘下時間問題的一個好方法？因為看起來這個速度可能正在放緩，而且我想你仍然持有相當高的保守損失趨勢假設。

We have -- I think if you look, Andrew, we have tended to be cautious on how we book reserves. I don't think that that is something I would expect to change. I think it's been mentioned that we're getting rate of what we believe in excess of loss trend, but we're going to continue to be cautious there, particularly on the wheels-based exposure. That will continue.

安德魯，我想如果你看一下，我們會發現，我們在預訂儲備金的方式上一直很謹慎。我不認為這是我期望改變的事情。我認為有人提到，我們正在獲得我們認為超過損失趨勢的利率，但我們將繼續保持謹慎，特別是在基於車輪的風險敞口方面。這種情況將會持續下去。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) There are no further questions. I will now turn the conference over to Mr. Craig Kliethermes for some closing remarks.

（操作員指示）沒有其他問題了。現在，我將會議交給 Craig Kliethermes 先生，請他致閉幕詞。

Well, thank you all for your interest in our company and for your questions today. At RLI, we have a strong, healthy balance sheet with very diversified product and investment portfolios. This offers security to our customers, flexibility and opportunity to our product managers, and consistent profitability to our shareholders.

好吧，感謝大家對我們公司的關注以及今天提出的問題。在 RLI，我們擁有強大、健康的資產負債表以及非常多樣化的產品和投資組合。這為我們的客戶提供了安全保障，為我們的產品經理提供了靈活性和機會，並為我們的股東提供了持續的獲利能力。

We do things differently here, and intentionally so. We will continue to make decisions that are in the long-term best interest of our customers and our shareholders that allow us agility to respond in challenging and opportunistic markets. Being different is what we are known for, and being different has delivered again to all our key stakeholders. Thank you to all our employee owners for their hard work delivering the difference that works. Thank you, and we'll talk to you next quarter.

我們在這裡做的事情有所不同，而且是故意這樣做的。我們將繼續做出符合客戶和股東長期最佳利益的決策，使我們能夠靈活地應對充滿挑戰和機會的市場。我們以與眾不同而聞名，而這種與眾不同再次為我們所有的主要利益相關者帶來了好處。感謝我們所有的員工所有者，感謝他們的辛勤工作，帶來了有效的改變。謝謝，我們下個季度再與您聯絡。

Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to access the replay for this call, you may do so on the RLI homepage at www.rlicorp.com. This concludes our conference for today. Thank you all for participating and have a nice day. All parties may now disconnect.

女士們，先生們，如果您想觀看本次電話會議的重播，請訪問 RLI 主頁 www.rlicorp.com。今天的會議到此結束。感謝大家的參與並祝福大家有個愉快的一天。各方現在都可以斷開連線。