RLI Corp (RLI) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the RLI Corp. fourth quarter earnings teleconference. After management's prepared remarks, we will open the conference up for questions and answers. Before we get started, let me remind everyone that through the course of the teleconference, our alliance management may make comments that reflect their intentions, beliefs and expectations for the future.

早上好，歡迎參加RLI公司第四季財報電話會議。管理階層發言結束後，我們將開放會議進行問答環節。在會議開始之前，請允許我提醒大家，在本次電話會議期間，我們的聯盟管理層可能會發表一些評論，這些評論反映了他們對未來的意圖、信念和期望。

As always, these forward-looking statements are subject to certain factors and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ materially. Please refer to the risk factors described in the company's various SEC filings, including in the annual report on Form 10-K as supplemented in Forms 10-Q, all of which should be reviewed carefully. The company has filed a Form 8-K with the Securities and Exchange Commission that contains the press release announcing fourth-quarter results.

與以往一樣，這些前瞻性陳述受到某些因素和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與預期有重大差異。請參考公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的各種文件中所述的風險因素，包括 10-K 表格年度報告及其補充的 10-Q 表格，所有這些文件都應仔細審查。該公司已向美國證券交易委員會提交了 8-K 表格，其中包含公佈第四季度業績的新聞稿。

During the call, RLI management may refer to operating earnings and earnings per share from operations, which are non-GAAP measures of financial results. RLI's operating earnings and earnings per share from operations consist of net earnings after the elimination of after-tax realized gains or losses and after-tax unrealized gains or losses on equity securities.

在電話會議期間，RLI 管理階層可能會提及營業收入和每股營業收入，這些都是非公認會計準則下的財務績效指標。RLI 的營業收入和每股營業收入包括扣除稅後已實現收益或損失以及稅後未實現權益證券收益或損失後的淨收入。

Additionally, equity and earnings of unconsolidated investees and related taxes were removed from operating earnings and operating EPS to present a consistent approach and excluding all unrealized changes in value from equity investments. Our line management believes these measures are useful in gauging core operating performance across reporting periods but may not be comparable to other companies' definitions of operating earnings. The Form 8-K contains a reconciliation between operating earnings and net earnings. The Form 8-K and press release are available at the company's website at www.rlicorp.com.

此外，為了保持一致性，從營業利潤和營業每股收益中剔除了未合併投資對象的權益和收益以及相關稅款，並排除了權益投資中所有未實現的價值變動。我們的部門管理階層認為這些措施有助於衡量各報告期間的核心經營業績，但可能與其他公司對營業利潤的定義不具可比性。8-K 表格包含營業利潤與淨利潤之間的調節表。8-K 表格和新聞稿可在公司網站 www.rlicorp.com 上查閱。

I will now turn the conference over to RLI's President and Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Craig Kliethermes. Please go ahead.

現在我將把會議交給 RLI 的總裁兼執行長克雷格·克利瑟姆斯先生。請繼續。

Good morning, everyone. We appreciate you being with us today, and I'd like to introduce Aaron Diefenthaler, our Chief Financial Officer; and Jennifer Klobnak, our Chief Operating Officer, who are joining me. I'll start by saying we feel very good about where RLI Corp is today and just as importantly, where we're headed. 2025 was another strong year for our company.

各位早安。感謝各位今天蒞臨，我謹向大家介紹我們的財務長 Aaron Diefenthaler 和營運長 Jennifer Klobnak，他們今天也和我一起出席。首先，我想說我們對RLI公司目前的狀況以及未來的發展方向感到非常滿意。 2025年對我們公司來說又是強勁的一年。

We delivered underwriting income of $264 million on an 84 combined ratio grew book value per share by 33%, inclusive of dividends and achieved our 30th consecutive year of underwriting profitability. That kind of consistency is extremely rare in our industry, and it certainly doesn't happen by accident. It's too long to be considered a hot streak, it reflects disciplined execution over time and the principles we worked to uphold every day.

我們實現了 2.64 億美元的承保收入，綜合比率為 84，每股帳面價值增長了 33%（含股息），並實現了連續第 30 年的承保盈利。這種穩定性在我們這個行業極為罕見，而且這絕不是偶然發生的。這持續時間太長，不能算是一段火熱的連勝紀錄，它反映了我們長期以來嚴謹的執行力以及我們每天努力堅持的原則。

The environment remains competitive, and premium growth was modest but that's exactly when our model tends to show its strength. We don't measure success by how fast we grow, we measure it by how well we grow and whether today's decisions stand the test of time. Jerry Stevens, our founder, used to remind us that you don't win the long game by swinging at every pitch, you win it by knowing which ones to let go buy. That mindset is deeply ingrained at RLI.

市場環境依然競爭激烈，高端市場成長較為溫和，但這正是我們的模式展現其優勢的時候。我們衡量成功的標準不是成長速度，而是成長品質以及今天的決策是否經得起時間的考驗。我們的創辦人傑瑞史蒂文斯過去常常提醒我們，要贏得長遠比賽，不是每次都揮棒，而是要知道哪些球應該放手去買。這種思考方式在RLI根深蒂固。

We're comfortable flowing back when the risk-reward equation doesn't work, and we're confident leaning in where we have the expertise and when the market supports it. Our diversified specialty portfolio, strong balance sheet and ownership culture give us a lot of flexibility and a lot of confidence as we look ahead. We're well positioned and optimistic about the opportunities in front of us.

當風險回報比不理想時，我們會果斷撤回；而當我們擁有專業知識且市場支持時，我們則會自信地加大投入。我們多元化的專業產品組合、穩健的資產負債表和所有權文化，使我們在展望未來時擁有極大的靈活性和信心。我們已做好充分準備，對擺在我們面前的機會充滿信心。

And with that, I'll turn it over to Aaron to walk through the financials in more detail.

接下來，我將把麥克風交給 Aaron，讓他更詳細地講解一下財務狀況。

Thanks, Craig, and good morning, everyone. Yesterday, we reported fourth quarter operating earnings of $0.94 per share, up from $0.52 in the year ago period. Better underwriting performance, minimal storm activity and increases in investment income drove most of the improvement compared to last year. For the quarter, we generated $71 million of underwriting income on an 82.6% combined ratio versus $22 million on a 94.4% combined ratio in Q4 last year.

謝謝克雷格，大家早安。昨天，我們公佈了第四季度每股營運收益為 0.94 美元，高於去年同期的 0.52 美元。與去年相比，承保績效的改善、風暴活動的減少以及投資收益的增加是績效改善的主要原因。本季度，我們實現了 7,100 萬美元的承保收入，綜合比率為 82.6%，而去年第四季度，我們的承保收入為 2,200 萬美元，綜合比率為 94.4%。

For the full year, we delivered $264 million of underwriting income on, as Craig mentioned, an 83.6% combined ratio, marking our 30th consecutive year of underwriting profit. I wanted to call your attention to a change we made to our definition of operating earnings. As referenced in a footnote on page 1 of our release and in the non-GAAP disclosures on page 2, operating earnings now excludes equity and earnings of unconsolidated investees and related taxes.

全年來看，我們實現了 2.64 億美元的承保收入，正如 Craig 所提到的，綜合比率為 83.6%，這標誌著我們連續第 30 年實現承保盈利。我想提請您注意我們對營業利潤的定義所做的更改。正如我們在新聞稿第 1 頁的腳註和第 2 頁的非 GAAP 揭露中所提到的，營業收入現在不包括未合併投資對象的權益和收益以及相關稅費。

Prior periods were recast to conform to that definition for comparability. Currently, unconsolidated investees only includes our minority investment in Prime Holdings. We believe excluding these investments from operating earnings, better reflects RLI's core operations, where we maintain full operational control and aligns the treatment of investee results with other equity investments. On a GAAP basis, net earnings were $0.99 in the quarter and $4.37 for the year, an increase of 17% over full year 2024.

為了便於比較，對先前的期間進行了重新調整，使其符合該定義。目前，未並表的投資對象僅包括我們對 Prime Holdings 的少數股權投資。我們認為，將這些投資從營業利潤中剔除，更能反映 RLI 的核心業務，因為我們保持著完全的營運控制權，並將投資對象的績效處理方式與其他股權投資保持一致。以美國通用會計準則 (GAAP) 計算，本季淨收益為 0.99 美元，全年淨收益為 4.37 美元，比 2024 年全年增長 17%。

The -- in addition to operating earnings, net earnings include net realized gains and losses, net unrealized gains and losses from equity securities and now earnings of unconsolidated investees from Prime. Our Q4 net earnings reflect Prime's core operating results based on our minority ownership and a reduction to Prime's value on our balance sheet to $53 million.

除了營運收益外，淨收益還包括已實現淨收益和損失、權益證券的未實現淨收益和損失，以及來自 Prime 的未合併投資對象的收益。我們的第四季度淨收益反映了Prime的核心經營業績，這是基於我們對Prime的少數股權持有，並且Prime在我們資產負債表上的價值減少至5300萬美元。

Turning to premium. Top line growth was down 2% for Q4 and up 1% for the full year as competitive dynamics necessitated heightened discipline in several businesses while other products continue to find opportunities. Property premium was down 11% during the quarter, consistent with the rate environment for catastrophe exposed commercial property although other parts of the segment, Marine and Hawaii homeowners continue to grow. Properties underwriting profitability was supported by $17 million of favorable loss emergence on prior year's catastrophes, modestly offset by $4 million of storm activity in the quarter. Inclusive of these net benefits properties combined ratio was 49.2% in Q4 and 57.2% on the year.

升級到高級版。由於競爭情勢迫使一些業務部門加強紀律，而其他產品則繼續尋找機會，因此第四季度營收成長下降了 2%，全年營收成長了 1%。本季財產保險費下降了 11%，與受災害影響的商業房地產的費率環境一致，儘管該細分市場的其他部分，如海洋和夏威夷的房主，仍在繼續增長。財產保險承保獲利能力得益於上一年災害造成的 1,700 萬美元有利損失，但被本季風暴造成的 400 萬美元損失略微抵銷。在計入這些淨收益物業後，第四季綜合比率為 49.2%，全年為 57.2%。

Casualty premium was up 2% in the quarter and 7% on the year with strong contributions from Personal umbrella. The bottom line for Casualty benefited from $4 million of favorable prior year loss development just under $2 million of this release was related to prior year catastrophe activity.

本季意外險保費上漲 2%，年增 7%，其中個人傘險貢獻較大。意外險的最終收益得益於上一年有利的損失發展情況，損失減少了 400 萬美元；此次釋放的損失中，近 200 萬美元與上一年的災害活動有關。

Surety Premium remains flat in the current period and up slightly on a year-to-date basis. The segment's quarterly underlying -- underwriting results included $2.7 million of favorable loss emergence from prior years, which improved surety loss ratio by 7 points in the quarter. On the expense ratio Q4 came in at 39.3%, up from 37.6% a year ago. Bonus and profit-sharing expenses were higher on strong results and business level expenses were up as we've continued to invest in people and technology.

本期擔保費維持平穩，年初至今略有調漲。該業務板塊的季度基礎承保業績包括從往年收回的 270 萬美元有利損失，使本季度擔保損失率降低了 7 個百分點。第四季費用率為 39.3%，高於去年同期的 37.6%。由於業績強勁，獎金和利潤分享支出增加；由於我們持續投資於人才和技術，業務層面的支出也有所增加。

On the investment side, net investment income increased 9% in the quarter and a portfolio generated 1.5% total return in Q4 and 9% for the year. The yield environment has been relatively stable for intermediate maturities and we continue to find accretive fixed income opportunities. Purchase yields averaged 4.9% in the quarter, which was 70 basis points above our book yield.

投資方面，本季淨投資收益成長了 9%，投資組合在第四季度產生了 1.5% 的總回報，全年產生了 9% 的總回報。中期債券的殖利率環境相對穩定，我們持續發現增值型固定收益投資機會。本季平均購買收益率為 4.9%，比我們的帳面收益率高出 70 個基點。

Putting it all together, we produced $5.29 of comprehensive earnings for the year, driving 33% growth in book value per share, inclusive of dividends. This level of generated capital again allowed for a special dividend to shareholders of $2 per share in addition to our ordinary fourth-quarter dividend. Overall, a solidly profitable championship caliber closed in 2025.

綜合來看，我們今年實現了 5.29 美元的綜合收益，推動每股帳面價值成長 33%（含股息）。此次產生的資本水準再次允許我們向股東派發每股 2 美元的特別股息，此外還有我們第四季的常規股息。總體而言，一個盈利豐厚的冠軍級項目於 2025 年結束。

With that, I'll turn it over to Jen for more color on market conditions.

接下來，我將把麥克風交給Jen，請她更詳細地介紹市場狀況。

Thank you, Aaron. I will dive right into our segments, starting with property. While Premiums declined 11% in the fourth quarter, our property team delivered an excellent 49 combined ratio, underscoring the quality of our portfolio and ability to execute. E&S property premiums decreased by 18% on an intense competition from other carriers and MGUs along with increased risk retention in some areas by insurance.

謝謝你，亞倫。我將直接進入正題，首先從房地產開始。雖然第四季度保費下降了 11%，但我們的物業團隊實現了 49 倍的優秀綜合比率，凸顯了我們投資組合的品質和執行能力。由於其他保險公司和MGU的激烈競爭，以及保險公司在某些地區增加風險自留，E&S財產保險費下降了18%。

Hurricane rates were down 15%, while submissions continue to grow as insurance shop for the best terms. We are seeing pressure on terms and conditions, and our underwriters are flexing selectively to retain high-quality accounts. This competitive dynamic extends to other property lines as well. Earthquake rates declined 12% as insurers saw rate relief or decided to retain the risk.

颶風保險費率下降了 15%，但隨著保險公司競相尋找最佳條款，投保數量仍在持續成長。我們看到條款和條件方面面臨壓力，我們的核保人員正在選擇性地調整條款，以留住優質客戶。這種競爭態勢也延伸到了其他地產領域。地震保險費率下降了 12%，因為保險公司看到了費率減免或決定保留風險。

We see carrier competitors in the E&S property market slowly giving back terms and conditions, while MGAs are being more aggressive. Despite the rate moderation on catastrophe coverages, we continue to achieve returns on retained business that exceed our long-term targets. Our experienced E&S property team delivered a meaningful underwriting profits despite challenging market conditions.

我們看到，在環境與社會財產保險市場，保險公司競爭對手正在慢慢讓步，而管理總代理則更加積極主動。儘管巨災保險費率有所下調，但我們繼續從留存業務中獲得的收益超過了我們的長期目標。儘管市場環境充滿挑戰，但我們經驗豐富的E&S財產險團隊仍實現了可觀的承保利潤。

We have navigated many hard and soft market cycles with discipline and remain focused on securing terms and conditions at an appropriate rate while reducing uncertainty when a loss occurs. Hawaii Homeowners premium grew 5% in the quarter, supported by a 16% rate increase. For the year, Premium was up 26%, due in part to a couple of book rollovers we assumed following the Mali wildfires. We will continue to see growth in this profitable look through our outstanding local customer service, investments in customer experiences and additional rate increases from recent filing approval.

我們以嚴謹的態度應對了許多艱難和疲軟的市場週期，並始終專注於以適當的利率確保條款和條件，同時在發生損失時降低不確定性。受 16% 的利率上漲影響，夏威夷房屋所有權人保險費在本季上漲了 5%。今年，Premium 增加了 26%，部分原因是由於馬里山火後我們預期的一些帳期會展期。我們將繼續透過卓越的本地客戶服務、對客戶體驗的投資以及近期備案獲批帶來的額外費率上漲，實現這一盈利增長。

Marine premium was up 2% in the quarter. Our diverse portfolio is evolving based on market opportunities. Endo Marine continues to grow through strategic talent additions and new product adjacencies. Ocean Marine remains competitive, particularly in cargo where we had pulled back. Our underwriting teams continue to apply patience and discipline, which resulted in underwriting profit across both inland and ocean in 2025.

本季海運保費上漲了2%。我們多元化的產品組合會根據市場機會不斷發展。Endo Marine 透過策略性人才引進和新產品拓展持續發展壯大。Ocean Marine 仍然具有競爭力，尤其是在我們之前已經縮減的貨運領域。我們的核保團隊繼續保持耐心和嚴謹，這使得我們在 2025 年實現了內陸和海洋業務的承保盈利。

Surety Premium was flat but produced a strong 80 combined ratio in the fourth quarter. Transactional Surety grew 4% through continuous marketing efforts and investments in our distribution capabilities. These are very small premium bonds, so it takes significant volume to move the needle.

擔保費持平，但第四季綜合比率高達 80%。透過持續的行銷努力和對分銷能力的投資，交易擔保業務成長了 4%。這些債券的溢價非常低，因此需要相當大的發行量才能產生影響。

Commercial Surety also grew 4% as our talented team secured new accounts by closely engaging with our distribution partners. Increased customs bond requests offset the slowdown in renewable energy with both trends driven by government policy. On the contract Surety side, premium declined 5% and as we navigated the ending to a year that included multiple pits of starts in construction spending. We know that infrastructure investments are needed at the federal state and local level, and we remain well positioned to support that business as public funding increases. Our Surety underwriting teams remain committed to underwriting discipline and prudent risk selection in this evolving environment.

商業擔保業務也成長了 4%，這得益於我們才華橫溢的團隊與分銷合作夥伴的密切合作，成功獲得了新客戶。海關保證金申請的增加抵消了再生能源成長放緩的影響，而這兩個趨勢都是由政府政策推動的。在合約擔保方面，保費下降了 5%，因為我們正努力應對一年中建築支出多次陷入低谷的局面。我們知道聯邦、州和地方各級政府都需要基礎設施投資，隨著公共資金的增加，我們仍然能夠很好地支持這項業務。在不斷變化的環境中，我們的保證承保團隊始終致力於遵守承保紀律和審慎的風險選擇。

The casual segment premiums grew 2% on a 99.6% combined ratio for the fourth quarter. First umbrella led the way with premium growth of 24%. This included a 12% rate increase, and we secured additional approvals that will further add rate to the book in 2026.

第四季度，休閒保險業務的保費成長了 2%，綜合比率為 99.6%。第一傘險以 24% 的保費增長率領先。這其中包括 12% 的利率上漲，我們還獲得了額外的批准，這將使 2026 年的利率進一步上漲。

This controlled growth reflects reduced new business in several challenging seats where we have taken larger rate increases required higher underwriting -- I'm sorry, underlying limits and works with our distribution partners to improve the quality of our book.

這種可控成長反映了我們在幾個具有挑戰性的地區減少了新業務，在這些地區，我們採取了更大的費率成長，需要更高的核保——抱歉，這是根本性的限制，並且需要與我們的分銷合作夥伴合作來提高我們業務的品質。

The first umbrella market continues to present opportunities as our competitors responded to deteriorate results by adjusting their appetite and terms and conditions. Our continuous product collaboration supported by intensive data mining, actuarial analysis and claim trend identification produced an underwriting profit for the year. Transportation premium declined 10% in the quarter despite a 13% increase in rates as we continue to prioritize profitability over volume in a highly competitive environment.

第一個繖形市場繼續帶來機遇，因為我們的競爭對手透過調整其投資意願和條款來應對業績惡化。我們持續的產品合作，輔以密集的資料探勘、精算分析和理賠趨勢識別，最終實現了年度承保獲利。儘管運費上漲了 13%，但由於我們在競爭激烈的環境中繼續優先考慮獲利能力而非運輸量，因此本季運輸溢價下降了 10%。

Severity trends and economic pressures have reshaped the market with heightened volatility and increased expenses forcing some transportation companies to consolidate or close reducing the demand for insurance. At the same time, despite some insurance providers leaving this space due to poor financial performance, there always seems to be new markets entering and pushing for growth. Acute pressure on the largest size accounts has led to a decrease in our average account size over the last two years.

嚴重程度趨勢和經濟壓力重塑了市場，波動性加劇，成本增加，迫使一些運輸公司進行合併或關閉，從而降低了對保險的需求。同時，儘管一些保險公司由於財務表現不佳而退出這一領域，但總會有新的市場進入並推動成長。過去兩年，由於最大客戶群面臨巨大壓力，導致我們的平均客戶規模下降。

Our in-house loss control team provides an advantage as they assess and try to improve the safety of our issuance, which helps all drivers. Our underwriters are empowered to make bottom line driven decisions. We remain disciplined, pushing for more rate and walking away from underpriced accounts. Our executive products group achieved an underwriting profit again this year. Premium in the fourth quarter was down 2% with rates down 1%. The market is stabilizing amid broader industry loss development.

我們內部的損失控制團隊具有優勢，因為他們會評估並努力提高我們發行產品的安全性，這有助於所有駕駛員。我們的核保人有權做出以營利為導向的決策。我們保持嚴謹的作風，爭取更高的利率，並放棄定價過低的帳戶。今年，我們的高階主管產品團隊再次實現了承保獲利。第四季保費下降 2%，利率下降 1%。儘管整個行業普遍虧損，但市場正在趨於穩定。

Our focus remains on marketing to increase access to business and disciplined risk selection to maintain our quality book. The E&S Casual team also produced an underwriting profit for the year. We saw increased competition in the fourth quarter, particularly on larger 6-figure Premium accounts due to competitors chasing capital line growth, presumably to meet year-end goals. Our primary excess liability premiums declined 8% in the quarter, but full-year premium finished up 10%.

我們仍然專注於行銷以增加業務機會，並透過嚴格的風險選擇來維持我們優質的業務。E&S Casual 團隊本年度也實現了承保盈利。第四季我們看到競爭加劇，尤其是在金額較大的六位數高階帳戶方面，因為競爭對手都在追求資本額度成長，大概是為了達到年底目標。本季我們的主要超額責任保險保費下降了 8%，但全年保費卻上漲了 10%。

Competition varied by region with some markets exiting while others we did. Submissions increased by double digits, and we are constantly engaging producers to see the best new business opportunities. Much of our business is construction related, and projects are taking longer to buy. We have many quote outstanding way for permitting or funding. The group knows that words matter and have not relaxed term conditions despite competitive pressure. We continue to provide a stable solution for our business partners in the construction space.

不同地區的競爭情況各不相同，有些市場退出了，而我們則進入了其他市場。投稿數量實現了兩位數的成長，我們不斷與製片人接洽，以尋找最佳的新商機。我們的大部分業務都與建築相關，而專案採購所需時間越來越長。我們有許多優秀的許可或融資方案可供選擇。集團深知措辭的重要性，儘管面臨競爭壓力，仍未放寬條款條件。我們持續為建築領域的商業夥伴提供穩定的解決方案。

Before I provide perspective on the full year, I'll update you on our reinsurance renewal. On January 1, we renewed about 2/3 of our annual reinsurance spend. It was a buyer's market for property. We secured 15% to 20% rate decreases on our catastrophe program and more modest relief on our property working layers. With our reduced exposure and continuing soft market conditions, we purchased $150 million less catastrophe line for 2026, but we remain ready to approach the market midterm should an opportunity present itself as we have done in previous years.

在對全年情況進行展望之前，我先向大家報告我們的再保險續保情況。1月1日，我們續保了約2/3的年度再保險支出。當時是房地產買方市場。我們為災害保險計劃爭取到了 15% 至 20% 的費率下調，並為我們的財產保險計劃爭取到了更為溫和的減免。由於我們減少了風險敞口，並且市場狀況持續疲軟，我們減少了 2026 年 1.5 億美元的巨災保險額度，但如果機會出現，我們仍然準備好像往年一樣在中期進入市場。

On the casualty side, rates were down around 5%. We achieved similar term conditions with some broadening of coverage in the property treatments. For the full year, we achieved modest growth while producing an 84 combined ratio, while E&S property prudently contracted in response to softening market position, other teams capitalized on opportunities, most notably personal umbrella, E&S Casualty and Hawaii Homes. We pushed for rate change where we needed it, achieving an overall 16% rate increase in auto liability coverages across our portfolio. In 2025, we also spent time with our distribution partners, broadening and deepening those relationships and we invested in operational efficiencies.

意外傷害方面，事故率下降了約 5%。我們在財產保險方面擴大了承保範圍，並實現了類似的條款條件。全年來看，我們實現了適度成長，綜合比率為 84。儘管 E&S 財產險業務因市場地位疲軟而謹慎地縮減了規模，但其他團隊抓住了機遇，尤其是個人傘險、E&S 意外險和夏威夷房屋險。我們在需要的地方推動了費率調整，最終實現了我們所有業務組合中汽車責任險費率整體上漲 16%。2025年，我們也花時間與分銷合作夥伴拓展和深化這些關係，並投資於營運效率。

This included simplifying and automating processes developing new capabilities to improve ease of doing business and investing in our data infrastructure to support granular real-time decision-making. Internally, we brought our teams together regularly to talk about how we are doing and where we can improve. These actions position us well for another successful year in 2026. In a more challenging environment, capital discipline and alignment of interest differentiate successful insurers. Underwriting, which we define as underwriters, claims and analytics collaborating to evolve our products is the disciplined pursuit of opportunities.

這包括簡化和自動化流程，開發新功能以提高業務開展的便利性，以及投資我們的資料基礎設施以支援精細的即時決策。在公司內部，我們定期召集團隊開會，討論我們的工作進度以及可以改進的地方。這些舉措使我們為2026年再創佳績奠定了堅實的基礎。在更具挑戰性的環境中，資本紀律和利益一致性是區分成功保險公司的關鍵因素。承保，我們將其定義為承保人、理賠和分析人員合作改進我們的產品，是對機會的嚴謹追求。

We are an underwriting company as evidenced by our unmatched track record of 30 consecutive years of underwriting profit. I'm incredibly proud of our entire team for producing this result and for how they do it by taking care of our customers and striving to improve it every day because they are owners. With that, I will turn the call over to the moderator to open it up for questions.

我們是一家承保公司，連續 30 年承保獲利的卓越表現就是最好的證明。我為我們整個團隊取得這樣的成果感到無比自豪，也為他們以主人翁精神對待客戶、努力改進工作的方式感到驕傲。接下來，我將把通話交給主持人，由他來回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Michael Phillips, Oppenheimer.

（操作說明）邁克爾·菲利普斯，奧本海默。

The accident or loss ratio in Casualty improved a bit from last year, once you back out the reserve edition you did, can you talk about how much of that was because of the mix shift from pulling away from transportation book versus anything else that might have caused that improvement?

扣除儲備金後，意外險的事故或損失率比去年略有改善。您能否談談，這種改善有多少是由於減少了運輸險業務導致的組合變化，又有多少是由於其他可能導致這種改善的因素？

So as you look at the casualty loss ratio, you did see improvement. And we did pull back in both transportation and other areas of all where we provide coverage, like in our package businesses. Last year, in the fourth quarter, we did recognize additional reserving related to those auto-related coverages both in our transportation and our first umbrella product. This year, as we looked at losses coming in, we did not see the need to take such action. And so you just see that improvement. I can't quantify specifically the difference. Aaron?

所以，從傷亡率來看，確實有改善。我們確實在運輸和我們提供服務的其他所有領域（例如包裹業務）都進行了縮減。去年第四季度，我們在運輸保險和第一款傘險產品中，確實確認了與汽車相關保險相關的額外準備金。今年，當我們審視虧損情況時，我們認為沒有必要採取此類行動。所以你就能看到這種進步。我無法具體量化這種差異。亞倫？

Yes. I think the both there on a comparative basis to Q4 of last year that you're seeing is the action we took for the full accident year in 2024 around auto-related exposures, also true of the 2023 accident year as well. So we feel we're on more stable footing around those exposures because we didn't take the same level of action in the current accident year, still cautious around auto-related exposures.

是的。我認為，與去年第四季相比，你看到的是我們在 2024 年整個事故年度（與汽車相關的風險）採取的行動，2023 年事故年度也是如此。因此，我們感覺我們在應對這些風險方面更有底氣，因為我們在當前的事故年度沒有採取同樣程度的行動，但仍然對與汽車相關的風險保持謹慎。

And our incentive structure is set up for those business leaders to pull back from those markets when they see underpriced competition coming to bear on submission activities. So everything is set up for there to be a natural pullback for markets that are underpriced. But the underlying results themselves that we're seeing we feel better about because of the stability relative to the action we took the last couple of years.

我們的激勵機制旨在讓這些企業領導者在看到低價競爭對申報活動產生影響時，從這些市場撤出。因此，一切條件都已具備，被低估的市場將會出現自然回檔。但由於相對於過去幾年我們採取的行動而言，目前的穩定性讓我們對最終結果感到更滿意。

Okay. I guess on that last year's reserve addition, I mean I think it was from higher severity and umbrella and transportation. And this year, you've seen a bit of a casualty a bit of a slowdown in favorable PYD. I assume that means you're still seeing that same level of severity that you -- that caused you to take those reserve additions last year.

好的。我猜去年增加的儲備金，我的意思是，我認為是由於更嚴重的災害、傘狀物和交通運輸問題。今年，有利的 PYD 出現了一些放緩，造成了一些損失。我猜這意味著你仍然面臨著與去年導致你增加儲備金時相同的嚴重程度。

I guess the question would be, I'm not sure how much of that reserve addition was because of the accounts that you've now subsequently lost from midterm cancellations that you've talked about last quarter. But to the extent some of that was -- as accounts are no longer here. I guess what does that mean for any potential favorable development if these accounts are in growth here, I guess, going forward?

我想問的是，我不確定這筆新增儲備金有多少是因為你們上個季度提到的期中考取消而損失的帳戶。但其中一些情況確實存在——因為帳戶已不復存在。如果這些帳戶持續成長，那麼這對未來任何潛在的有利發展意味著什麼？

Yes.It's hard to get down to the account level when you're -- when you're examining these things. But I'll just say overall, you're right to identify lower levels of favorable development for casualty here in the fourth quarter. I think you do have to rightsize that for the -- a small proportion of the prior year cat activity as well to get close to that $4 million number that I referenced. However, just overall, we're seeing lower levels of favorable development out of casualty. We're still seeing drivers out of GL and commercial excess and still some challenges around auto-related exposures, all of that being maybe to a lesser extent than what we saw in the year ago period.

是的。當你——當你檢查這些東西的時候，很難深入到帳戶層面。但總的來說，你對第四季意外傷害有利發展水準較低的看法是正確的。我認為你必須對規模進行適當調整——也要將前一年貓的活動的一小部分也考慮在內，才能接近我提到的 400 萬美元的數字。然而，總體而言，我們看到傷亡事故帶來的有利發展程度較低。我們仍然看到一些駕駛因一般責任險和商業超額責任險而面臨風險，汽車相關風險方面仍然存在一些挑戰，但所有這些情況可能都比一年前的情況要輕一些。

Yes. To supplement that, I would just add that there are many metrics that you can track to see what direction you're headed. And I'll tell you that a new claim counts in 2025 were down significantly in those auto spots. So for example, our transportation division, new claim costs were down 24% for the year, which is the pain indicator that the actions we're taking are going to translate into a more stable going forward.

是的。此外，我還想補充一點，有很多指標可以用來追蹤你的發展方向。我還要告訴你，2025 年這些汽車相關領域的新索賠數量大幅下降。例如，我們的運輸部門，今年的新索賠成本下降了 24%，這表明我們正在採取的措施將轉化為未來更穩定的局面。

Okay. Perfect. That's helpful, Jen. I guess just switching gears, last question on the property side. I mean, the last part, you talked a lot about how you've kind of leaned in and made some investments there as you were growing in that hard market.

好的。完美的。那很有幫助，珍。我想換個話題，最後一個問題是關於房產方面的。我的意思是，在最後一部分，你談到了很多關於你在艱難的市場中發展壯大的過程中，如何積極參與並進行了一些投資的內容。

What does that mean today, given just the opposite, is there any, I guess, lack of a better term, fat there on the property side that may need to be trimmed as there's pressure on your expense ratio in property over the next year or so?

今天的情況恰恰相反，這意味著什麼呢？我想，或許用詞不當，房地產方面是否存在一些需要削減的“贅肉”，因為在未來一年左右的時間裡，您的房地產支出比率將面臨壓力？

Well, that's an interesting question. I would say the one thing we did do to ramp up in addition to trying to be more efficient, taking a little more submissions, is that we added additional talent. We've had some very experienced underwriters that have really enjoyed this hard market. I think as they come towards the end of their career, not that I'm encouraging anyone listening to retire, but I think we will see a handful of retirements in that space, and now we'll be ready as we've already started training the next generation in that group.

嗯，這倒是個有趣的問題。我想說，除了努力提高效率、接受更多投稿之外，為了加快進度，我們還增加了一些人才。我們有一些經驗豐富的承銷商，他們非常享受這種艱難的市場環境。我認為，隨著他們職業生涯接近尾聲，我並不是鼓勵任何聽眾退休，但我認為我們會看到一些球員退役，而我們現在已經做好準備，因為我們已經開始培養下一代球員了。

In addition to that, though, I would tell you, our submission count is still up. We continue to see growth in submissions throughout that property book, and we do want to look at that business. So it's harder to work now. There's just as much work if not more, despite the fact that terms and conditions are more challenging. So you can necessarily shortcut that if you do want to support the producers that are sending a business. So there's a little bit of -- that we still need to keep investing in supporting that.

除此之外，我還想告訴大家，我們的投稿數量仍然很高。我們看到該房地產類房源的投稿數量持續成長，我們確實想專注於這部分業務。所以現在工作更難了。儘管條款和條件更具挑戰性，但工作量卻絲毫不減，甚至更多。所以，如果你想支持那些向外輸送產品的生產商，你完全可以走捷徑。所以，我們還是需要持續投入一些資源來支持這方面。

Hristian Getsov, Wells Fargo. Your line

克里斯蒂安‧格佐夫，富國銀行。你的線路

On the property competition, I guess, what needs to happen in the market for us to see an inflection in the rate decreases at least like moderate from here? Is it -- like thinking about is it simple as a large outsized cat event, call it, north of $50 billion.

關於房地產競爭，我想，市場需要發生什麼變化，才能讓我們看到利率至少從目前的水平溫和下降？就像思考一場規模龐大的貓科動物活動，比如說，超過 500 億美元。

And then I guess on the competitive dynamics you're seeing in the space, like how much of that competition would you classify as being irrational in pricing versus a more rational normalization of the cycle given the strong rate increases and profitability we've seen in the line?

然後，我想談談你在這個領域看到的競爭動態，例如，考慮到我們在該領域看到的強勁利率上漲和盈利能力，你認為這種競爭中有多少是定價上的非理性行為，又有多少是周期的理性正常化？

Well, this is John. I think what we need is a little bit less capacity. And whatever can cause that to happen, would be beneficial to the bar. So whether that's an incredible can event, whether that's a change in the investment opportunities to shift to a better opportunity in the greater space. Anything of that nature that would reduce capacity would be beneficial.

這位是約翰。我認為我們需要的是減少一些產能。任何能促成這種情況發生的因素，都將對酒吧業有利。所以，無論是令人難以置信的罐頭事件，還是投資機會的轉變，從而轉向更廣闊領域中更好的機會。任何能減少產能的措施都是有益的。

Having said that, all we need is a stable market. I will tell you that the current catastrophe market is well priced with reasonable terms and conditions in a lot of places. So we can navigate this market easily if it would favor that. Now with reinsurance renewals being a little more friendly on long one, it could soften further and so again, looking for either a large cat or some other event that would take capacity out of the market would be beneficial.

也就是說，我們需要的只是一個穩定的市場。我可以告訴你，目前很多地方的災害保險市場定價合理，條款和條件也都很合理。如果市場有利於我們，我們就能輕鬆駕馭這個市場。現在，長期再保險續保條件稍微寬鬆了一些，市場可能會進一步走軟，因此，尋找大型巨災或其他會減少市場承保能力的事件將是有益的。

And I can't quantify how many are reasonable or unreasonable as we are navigating that market every day, refining to our producers. We see business being stolen between producers. There's a lot of movement going on just because people have changed which wholesalers they work for. So that's one factor, but we also see carriers that have aligned interest being responsible. And so we align competing against those people.It's a fair playground.

我無法量化有多少是合理的，有多少是不合理的，因為我們每天都在摸索這個市場，不斷向我們的生產商改進。我們看到生產商之間存在著業務盜竊現象。由於人們更換了批發商，現在市場出現了許多變動。所以這是其中一個因素，但我們也看到利益一致的運營商也負有責任。因此，我們與這些人展開競爭。這是一個公平的競爭環境。

It's where capital providers that don't have aligned interest. They -- the MGAs, in some cases, have no downside. It's not aligned with the carriers who have to pay those clients at some point. That's where there's a disconnect and where the MGAs want to use up that capacity quickly because right now, the market could be better than it is a few months from now. So I don't know how much of that market there is.

這是指那些利益不一致的資金提供者。在某些情況下，MGA（管理代理機構）沒有任何缺點。這與營運商的利益並不一致，因為營運商最終必須向這些客戶支付費用。這就是問題所在，也是 MGA 希望盡快用完這些產能的原因，因為現在的市場狀況可能比幾個月後更好。所以我不知道這個市場有多大。

I can tell you there are examples where people have received capacity for this year that are multiple to multiples of what they were able to provide in terms of capacity last year.

我可以告訴你，有些例子表明，今年人們獲得的產能是去年產能的數倍甚至更多。

So we just know that we can't compete on some of that, so we don't spend a lot of time on those types of deals. We kind of move in the spaces where we know we have a chance of the business.

所以我們知道在某些方面我們無法競爭，因此我們不會在這類交易上花費太多時間。我們傾向於在那些我們認為有商機的領域開展業務。

Got it. And then switching to personal umbrella. Are you seeing a shift in the competitive dynamics there, just given we're seeing more of a focus on growth from some of the bigger personal line carriers in mutuals. I'm trying to get a sense of the ability to compete as a monoline provider becomes more challenging given a lot of these other players are focused on bundling, which would include personal umbrella?

知道了。然後換成個人雨傘。鑑於我們看到一些大型個人保險公司和互助保險公司更加重視成長，您是否觀察到競爭格局發生了變化？我正在努力了解，鑑於許多其他保險公司都專注於捆綁銷售（包括個人傘險），單一險種保險公司要想在競爭中脫穎而出是否變得越來越具有挑戰性？

Yes. I want an of the bundle risky commercial. But other than that, I would say the personal umbrella market continues to evolve. Some of those personal line carriers that bundle their business I know are increasing rates tremendously to use their coverage. You see that in filings, you see that in the press. And we do partner with some of those same carriers to offer our personal umbrella, but it doesn't match their appetite.

是的。我想要一份包含高風險商業廣告的捆綁包。但除此之外，我認為個人傘險市場仍在不斷發展。我知道有些將業務捆綁在一起的個人保險保險公司正在大幅提高保費，以吸引更多人使用他們的保險服務。你在文件中可以看到這一點，你在媒體報道中也可以看到這一點。我們也與其中一些保險公司合作提供我們的個人傘險，但這並不能滿足他們的需求。

We have a pretty wide moat around our business. We're pretty embedded with our business partners. They find value in our product and in how we support that product through servicing. So we update our information daily on what kind of business we're getting in the door. We're talking to our producer partners monthly to see what they need and how we can service that business.

我們的業務周圍有相當寬的護城河。我們與商業夥伴的關係非常密切。他們認可我們的產品以及我們透過售後服務對產品提供的支援。因此，我們會每天更新訊息，了解有哪些類型的企業前來洽談業務。我們每月都會與我們的生產商合作夥伴進行溝通，以了解他們的需求以及我們如何為他們的業務提供服務。

So I feel pretty good that we have a good base to go from a position of strength going into the next year. We're also still getting some rate increases in various states where we need some rate. And so I see opportunity for real from both rates but also from our continued great service that we provide to our producers, I think we'll have more opportunity there.

所以我覺得我們擁有一個好的基礎，可以以此優勢進入明年。在一些我們需要提高利率的州，我們仍然會面臨一些利率上漲。因此，我認為利率以及我們持續為生產者提供的優質服務都蘊藏著巨大的機會，我們將在這方面獲得更多機會。

So while there's some more competition coming in on the edges, I think people might be noticing that we do a pretty good job on this. There's some people talking about getting in. We're going to defend our space. We're going to continue to evolve this product and offer a quality product to ensure it's out there to need this coverage.

雖然邊緣地帶出現了一些競爭，但我認為人們可能已經注意到，我們在這方面做得相當不錯。有些人正在討論如何進入這個圈子。我們將捍衛我們的領土。我們將繼續改進這款產品，並提供高品質的產品，以確保市場上能夠滿足人們對這種保障的需求。

Got it. And if I could sneak one more. Have you seen any benefit on submission volumes from the elimination of the diligent search documentation requirement for surplus lines in Florida? I know that's a pretty good portion of your premium mix.

知道了。如果我能再偷偷加一個就好了。佛羅裡達州取消超額保險業務的盡職調查文件要求後，您是否看到提交量有任何增加？我知道這在你高端產品組合中佔了相當大的比例。

And I just wanted to see if there's any updated thoughts there? And then also, if you have any updated thoughts around the general reform we've seen not only in Florida but in states like Georgia and loss trends.

我只是想看看大家對此有沒有什麼新的想法？另外，如果您對我們不僅在佛羅裡達州，而且在喬治亞州等州看到的整體改革以及損失趨勢有任何最新的想法，也請告訴我。

I'll tell you that in Florida in the last year, we have actually tried to slow our new business a little bit given the severity that we were seeing previously and we just talked about our actions from last fourth quarter, for example, and so with some of the actions we've taken between rates, attachment points and curtailing some of the production we bought from certain producers.

我可以告訴你們，去年我們在佛羅裡達州確實放慢了新業務的步伐，因為我們之前看到的情況非常嚴峻。例如，我們剛才談到了去年第四季的應對措施，包括調整費率、調整附加點以及減少從某些生產商購買的產量。

We haven't really seen an impact from that specific regulation just because we're more controlling our growth at this point in that state. On the other side of it, I'll tell you, to reform has been a positive. We don't necessarily have a number we can point to, but we do see on individual cases where we have a more reasonable resolution because we can present actual medical costs, what people pay, just the things that we can do to fight the plant's attorneys and their playbook create a more fair playing field there to resolve claims fairly for that ensure adds an actual loss. We're willing to pay for that loss. We just don't want to phase the attorney as much.

我們還沒有真正感受到那項具體法規的影響，因為目前我們在這個州的成長受到更多控制。另一方面，我要告訴你，改革是件好事。我們沒有具體的數字可以指出，但在個別案例中，我們確實看到了更合理的解決方案，因為我們可以提出實際的醫療費用，人們支付的費用，以及我們可以採取哪些措施來對抗工廠的律師及其慣用伎倆，從而創造一個更公平的競爭環境，公平地解決索賠，確保增加實際損失。我們願意承擔這部分損失。我們只是不想讓律師太緊張。

And so that environment has changed and has improved. And we'll probably see that in other states, it's a little more early like for Georgia, for example. But some of the things they have passed have been favorable as well. And in addition to that, all of that third-party litigation, there's a lot of states now that started passing legislation to get those kind of arrangements disclosed and that kind of thing, which will also help both in for umbrella as well as broader auto coverages.

因此，環境已經改變並且得到改善。我們可能會看到，在其他州，例如喬治亞州，情況會更早一些。但他們通過的一些法案也是有利的。除此之外，還有所有這些第三方訴訟，現在很多州都開始通過立法，要求披露這類安排等等，這也有助於傘式保險和更廣泛的汽車保險。

Andrew Andersen, Jefferies.

Andrew Andersen，傑富瑞集團。

Recognizing really strong overall results and a very good long-term track record here. If we just kind of focus on casualty over the last two years, reported a combined ratio, a little bit uncharacteristic to have that two years in a row. And I realize there were some headwinds on trucking, both on the reserving side and on the premium side.

認可其整體優異的業績和良好的長期發展記錄。如果我們只關注過去兩年的傷亡情況，報告的綜合比率有點不尋常，連續兩年都是如此。我意識到，貨運業面臨一些不利因素，包括準備金方面和保費方面。

But do you feel that some of these headwinds within this casualty segment are behind you or have really worked their way through in your kind of entering '26 in a better position, both from a booking ratio and from any Premium growth headwind into next year?

但您是否覺得，在意外險領域，這些不利因素中的一些已經過去，或者說，這些不利因素是否已經真正消除，從而使您在 2026 年處於更有利的地位，無論是從預訂率還是從明年保費增長的任何不利因素來看？

Well, Andrew, I think as we characterized the product level rate increases we've gotten within the casualty segment, we think that's probably the strongest foundation we can offer in terms of data itself. We feel better about where the overall rate level is for a lot of these businesses that have had some challenges related to them.

安德魯，我認為，正如我們對意外險領域產品層級費率成長的描述，我們認為這可能是我們在數據本身方面所能提供的最強有力的基礎。我們對許多曾面臨相關挑戰的企業的整體利率水準感到滿意。

So it's hard to say the exact point in time where you turn the corner into something that may offer some additional potential for expanded margins but having that rate profile and having some compounding of those rates over multiple years, we think is a good foundation.

因此，很難說何時才能真正扭轉局面，從而帶來更大的利潤空間，但我們認為，擁有這樣的利率結構，並且這些利率在多年內實現複利增長，是一個良好的基礎。

Yes. In addition to that, I would say we have clearly slowed a bit, releasing reserves for some of those coverages. I mean we've talked about that in the past two initial booking ratios tend to hold up a little longer. While we may be seeing positive signs like plain count. So I look at -- we're not acting tubes.

是的。除此之外，我認為我們顯然已經放緩了一些步伐，釋放了部分保險的準備金。我的意思是，我們之前也討論過，最初的預訂率往往會維持更長時間。雖然我們可能看到了一些積極的跡象，例如簡單的計數。所以我看——我們不是在表演。

So we don't tend to act on the good news, we tend to wait and make sure that we are seeing enough good news for a while because of the trend before we're going to recognize it for sure.

所以我們往往不會對好消息立即採取行動，而是會等待一段時間，確保看到足夠多的好消息，並根據趨勢判斷，才會最終確定下來。

Andrew, I grew up in the state of Missouri. So we got to wait and see on good news, we're slower to usually recognize that. But if we see something go in the other direction, we obviously like to try to get that up as quickly as possible. So that's the way we look at things.

安德魯，我是在密蘇裡州長大的。所以好消息我們只能拭目以待，我們通常反應比較慢，難以察覺。但如果我們發現情況朝著相反的方向發展，我們當然希望盡快扭轉局面。這就是我們看待事物的方式。

Understood. And on the property side, you've talked quite a bit about the MGA market being aggressive there. How would you characterize kind of more of the traditional or admitted carriers?

明白了。至於房地產方面，您已經多次談到MGA市場在那裡的競爭非常激烈。你會如何描述那些比較傳統的或公認的承運商？

Well, I would say that everybody wants Premium. So it's a fight out there, but I would say the other E&S carriers are fairly responsible. I'll give them credit. And so we don't -- again, we don't mind competing against them. I think if we could just reduce solar capacity in that market, it could -- it would at least stabilize, which would be great.

我覺得大家都想要高級版。所以競爭很激烈，但我認為其他E&S承運商都相當負責。我會承認他們的功勞。所以，我們並不——再說一遍，我們並不介意與他們競爭。我認為，如果我們能夠減少該市場的太陽能裝置容量，至少就能使其穩定下來，那就太好了。

And then maybe last one. I think I heard 5% for Hawaii Home. Is that just reflective of we've lapped kind of the book rolls here because it's quite a decel quarter over quarter?

然後或許還有最後一個。我好像聽說夏威夷住宅的漲幅是5%。這是否反映出我們已經錯過了最佳時機，因為季度環比成長明顯放緩？

Yes, that's correct. We had a couple of book rules that ended right at the end of the third quarter. And so now we're back to our outstanding local service and just competing on a regular basis at this point. In addition to getting green, we have gotten rate increases that will drive a little bit of growth as well.

是的，沒錯。我們有幾條書上的規定在第三季末就失效了。所以現在我們又回到了我們出色的本地服務狀態，並且目前正在進行常規的市場競爭。除了實現綠色發展之外，我們還獲得了利率上漲，這將推動經濟成長。

Mark Hughes, Truist.

馬克·休斯，Truist。

Yes. Any granularity you can provide on that property dynamic just in terms of the competitive pressure as you think about Q4 relative to Q3 or even through the quarter, kind of the monthly pressure? Does there -- I know it's certainly more challenging year-over-year, but has it stabilized at all? Or is it still under incremental pressure?

是的。您能否就該物業動態提供一些更細緻的信息，例如您認為第四季度相對於第三季度，甚至整個季度（包括每月）的競爭壓力方面的情況？我知道情況肯定比往年更具挑戰性，但情況是否穩定下來？或者它仍然面臨持續的壓力？

That's a tough question. You're getting pretty granular, I would say. Every month, we -- obviously, we look at it on a very regular basis. And each month -- we -- if it's good news we hope that begins a trend, if it's down, we are like what's going on. So I don't know that I should provide color on a monthly basis.

這是一個棘手的問題。我覺得你分析得相當細緻了。每個月，我們都會——很顯然，我們會定期查看它。每個月——如果是好消息，我們希望它能開啟一種趨勢；如果是壞消息，我們就會想知道發生了什麼事。所以我不知道是否應該每月提供顏色資訊。

I'll tell you that in the fourth quarter, that's the smallest quarter for renewals. I mean, there's just not as many renewal dates out there. So it's a tough quarter to really conclude about anything. 1/1 is a big date. And then in the spray (inaudible) although they're bigger dates, and that's really where you make your book of business.

我可以告訴你，第四季是續約率最低的季度。我的意思是，現在可供選擇的續約日期並不多。所以，這個季度很難下任何結論。 1月1日是個重要的日子。然後，在噴霧（聽不清楚）中，雖然它們是更大的約會，而這才是你真正建立業務的地方。

So all of that is coming up and I think providing any one one color on renewals probably provide you a little too much information. So the market is still competitive. It continues to be, and we will see how that plays out this year.

所以所有這些問題都即將出現，我認為在續訂時只提供一種顏色可能會提供過多的信息。所以市場競爭依然激烈。情況依然如此，我們將拭​​目以待今年的發展。

Yes. And then the -- thinking about the lower reinsurance costs, would you say pricing was already incorporating that? There seems to be a pretty wide expectation for 10% to 20% decline, just thinking about whether -- when that actually happens, does that mean much for the market in the near term?

是的。那麼——考慮到再保險成本降低，您認為定價已經考慮到這一點了嗎？似乎很多人預期下跌 10% 到 20%，想想看——當這種情況真的發生時，這對短期市場來說意味著什麼？

Well, as we prepare for our non-renewals, we did contemplate a bit of a decrease in our costs. And so we built that into our benchmark pricing, which indicates how we need to price the business. I don't know what other companies do. I will tell you that last year in 2025, January, we didn't really see an impact from the reinsurance renewal but in February, we noticed that, that's when all that information trickled down to the underwriter desk and people got more aggressive because they did get released last year on one one.

鑑於我們即將面臨合約不再續約的情況，我們確實考慮過降低一些成本。因此，我們將這一點納入了我們的基準定價中，該基準定價表明了我們需要如何為企業定價。我不知道其他公司是怎麼做的。我可以告訴你，去年 2025 年 1 月，我們並沒有真正看到再保險續保的影響，但到了 2 月，我們注意到，那時所有相關資訊都傳到了承保部門，人們變得更加積極，因為他們去年確實有一筆保單被解保了。

So January, we're just going to put it in the books, and we'll see if the behavior changes later this spring to incorporate that. We also see changes on 41 because that went some MGA relationships renew their capacity. And so we may see further change of behavior at that lead time, but that's yet to be determined.

所以一月份，我們就先把這件事記下來，看看今年春天晚些時候情況會不會有所改變，從而採納這一建議。我們也看到 41 號發生了變化，因為一些 MGA 關係恢復了其能力。因此，我們可能會在那段時間內看到行為的進一步變化，但這仍有待確定。

And then one quick one, if I might. You mentioned that you were seeking additional rate increases in personal umbrella, and that would help 2026. Can you size that?

如果可以的話，我再快速問一個問題。您提到您正在尋求個人傘險的額外費率成長，這將有助於 2026 年的到來。你能告訴我它的尺寸嗎？

Well, this is a 50-state product where we have to file in each state and each state has been a process. So I can tell you that effective December 1, we did get a California increase of about 20%. And so that will bleed into part of the book. California is one of our bigger states.

這是一個涵蓋全美50州的產品，我們需要在每個州都提交申請，而每個州的申請流程都比較複雜。我可以告訴大家，從 12 月 1 日起，加州的稅率上漲了約 20%。因此，這部分內容也會反映在書中。加州是我們人口較多的州之一。

I can tell you our process is that every quarter and now that we have year-end it will be nice to, again, look at results to see which states require rate, where are we not getting at the rate and where are -- we analysis are underway already. And so we'll conclude in the next couple of weeks if we need to start taking additional action. But just based on the filings that were approved in the second half of last year, we know that there will be a fair rate amount of rate going into the book this year as well.

我可以告訴你們，我們的流程是每個季度，現在到了年底，我們會再次查看結果，看看哪些州要求提高利率，哪些州我們沒有達到利率，哪些州達到了利率——我們的分析已經在進行中。因此，我們將在接下來的幾週內得出結論，看看是否需要採取進一步行動。但僅根據去年下半年核准的申請來看，我們知道今年也會有相當數量的貸款進入貸款市場。

Meyer Scheels, Keith Burritos.

邁耶·謝爾斯，基斯·布里托斯。

Great. Jim, when you talk about lower auto claim emergence, is that across that five years? Or was that next year 2025 comment?

偉大的。吉姆，你說的汽車索賠數量減少是指五年內的情況嗎？還是那是關於2025年的評論？

These are just new claims that are received in 2025. They could be related to 2025 accident year or previous accident years.

這些只是 2025 年收到的新索賠。它們可能與 2025 年事故年份或之前的事故年份有關。

I was just going to say, I think we did see a reduction last year as well, though two years in a row.

我正想說，我認為去年我們也看到了下降，雖然這是連續第二年下降了。

Right. Okay. So as I just want to make it was understanding that correctly. The $150 million catastrophe reinsurance reduction. Was that at the top end of the tower? Did your attachment point change at all because of the smaller book?

正確的。好的。所以，我只是想確保我理解正確。減少1.5億美元的巨災再保險。那是在塔頂嗎？因為書變小了，你的閱讀重心有改變嗎？

No. So we maintained our $50 million attachment on the cat tower and just brought that tower down.

不。所以我們保留了價值 5000 萬美元的貓塔配件，然後把貓塔拆掉了。

Okay. And then final question, just you mentioned, I guess, concerns about competitors seeking to meet their budgets like how significant is maybe fourth-quarter competition compared to other quarters. I've heard the comments a lot. I'm just trying to get a sense of how material you think it is in the market?

好的。最後一個問題，正如你剛才提到的，我想大家可能會擔心競爭對手為了完成預算目標而採取的策略，例如第四季度的競爭與其他季度相比有多激烈。我常聽到這樣的評論。我只是想了解你認為它在市場上的市場價值如何？

I mean, overall, the fourth quarter is always challenging. And our underwriters always say, other people -- and it's legitimate. Other people are compensated on top line directly, sometimes not even compensate on bottom line, it's just strictly top line. So you do see a rush to meet people's bonuses.

我的意思是，總的來說，第四季總是充滿挑戰。我們的承保人總是說，其他人——而且這是合理的。其他人的薪酬直接與營業額掛鉤，有時甚至與利潤無關，完全只與營業額掛鉤。所以你會看到大家都在爭先恐後地去完成獎金目標。

But I argue with them that, that happens every year. So the real test is it worse this year in the fourth quarter versus last year's fourth quarter, the sprint to the finish. And in some of our segments, I would say people have the stealing of course, but it is a lot of healing as opposed to something you can measure to some extent. That's offset by in some cases like a property where we have just less business that renews. So you can't really measure what's going on as well as other quarters where there's just more business available.

但我跟他們爭辯說，這種情況每年都會發生。所以真正的考驗是，今年第四季的情況是否比去年第四季更糟，也就是衝刺階段。在我們的一些領域，我認為人們當然會有偷竊行為，但這更多的是一種治愈，而不是某種程度上可以衡量的東西。在某些情況下，例如某些房產，續約業務較少，這會抵消上述損失。所以你無法真正衡量這個季度的情況，因為其他季度有更多的商機。

Okay. So that makes sense. I guess the question for me, as always, is in the first quarter so far less competitive than the fourth quarter that just ended.

好的。這說得通。我想對我來說，問題依然是，到目前為止，第一季的競爭程度不如剛結束的第四季。

Sorry, I didn't follow that.

抱歉，我沒聽懂。

I'm just asking whether some of that competitive pressure has abated in the first quarter because right now, people aren't as worried about 2026 premium budgets. I know it's early in the first quarter, as you've been asked.

我只是想問，第一季這種競爭壓力是否有所緩解，因為目前人們不太擔心 2026 年的保費預算。我知道現在才第一季初，正如有人問到的那樣。

Well, it's too early to ask. Yes. We haven't closed January yet. So it's hard to see. I see a partial month is all I have at right now.

現在問這個問題還為時過早。是的。一月還沒結束。所以很難看清楚。我現在看到的只有半個月的時間。

Carol Basis, Smith & Co.

Carol Basis，Smith & Co.

Sorry, it's Jamie Inglis. Great quarter and year. But I've got a question about the reserve development. If you look at the '24 and prior CAD events, there was a big thing about the quarter and the year. And I'm wondering, is that just sort of a normal thing, time to figure out what the CADs actually ended up as? Or is there something specific or unusual in there?

抱歉，我是傑米·英格利斯。季度和全年都表現出色。但我對保護區的開發有個疑問。如果你回顧 2024 年及之前的 CAD 事件，你會發現季度和年度都有一些重要的事情。我想知道，這是否是一件很正常的事情，是時候弄清楚CAD最終的設計結果是什麼了？或裡面有什麼特別的或不尋常的東西？

Not unusual, Jamie. This is Aaron. If you think back to last year, we had a couple of sizable storms in Helen and Barrel. I think we outlined our expectations for here in our third -- fourth-quarter results and also at that time, offered a range of potential loss activity around Hurricane Milton, which was early days in the fourth quarter of last year. We tightened up our expectations as of the fourth-quarter release last year, but that was close to $50 million of an estimate just on Milton alone.

這並不奇怪，傑米。這是亞倫。回想去年，海倫和巴雷爾都遭遇了幾場相當大的風暴。我認為我們在第三季和第四季的業績報告中概述了我們對這方面的預期，並且當時也對颶風米爾頓可能造成的損失範圍進行了估算，當時是去年第四季度的早期階段。去年第四季財報發布後，我們收緊了預期，但光是米爾頓一家就預計營收將接近 5,000 萬美元。

And so you get a year on from those events and then some and you have some more comfort around what actual losses are going to transpire, and we felt it prudent to take down some of the IBNR. Those were not the only events that were incorporated in that analysis. We have cat CAD activity going back over several years that we examined and each storm stands on to itself. And it's a hand-to-hand combat in terms of examining claim activity, what's outstanding, what may be in litigation all fitting into our thinking on what to take down there.

因此，從這些事件發生到現在，一年多的時間裡，我們對實際將會發生的損失有了更多的了解，我們認為謹慎的做法是減少一些 IBNR（已發生但未報告的損失）。這些並非該分析中納入的唯一事件。我們查閱了過去幾年的貓科動物 CAD 活動記錄，發現每場風暴都是獨立的。在審查索賠活動、未決事項、可能正在訴訟中的事項等方面，這是一場針鋒相對的較量，所有這些都要納入我們對要採取哪些行動的思考之中。

Gregory Peters, Raymond James.

格雷戈里彼得斯，雷蒙德詹姆斯。

This is Mitch Rubin. You referenced the 13% rate increase in transportation this quarter. Is there any quantification you could provide on the magnitude of the underlying loss trend you're seeing in the portfolio? And what level of rate increases you believe might be required in 2026 to sustain rate adequacy in that?

這是米奇·魯賓。您提到了本季交通運輸費率上漲了 13%。您能否提供一些量化數據，說明您在投資組合中觀察到的潛在虧損趨勢的幅度？您認為到 2026 年需要多大幅度的利率成長才能維持利率的合理性？

Yes. Mitch, this is Craig Clive. So I'll speak to that. So I mean, we anticipate to continue to try to get increases going forward, probably double-digit increases. We have seen elevated severity trends in pretty much all auto businesses since COVID, since the courts have opened back up.

是的。米奇，這位是克雷格·克萊夫。所以我會談談這個問題。所以我的意思是，我們預計未來會繼續努力爭取加薪，可能會實現兩位數的成長。自從新冠疫情爆發以來，隨著法院重新開放，我們看到幾乎所有汽車產業的嚴重程度都呈現上升趨勢。

At some point, we think that has to subside. I mean people are going to want to continue to pay 10% to 15% increases in their insurance or they can't afford to pay 10% to 15% increases in their insurance.

我們認為這種情況總有一天會消退。我的意思是，人們要嘛願意繼續支付 10% 到 15% 的保險費漲幅，要嘛就負擔不起 10% 到 15% 的保費漲幅。

So at some point, there's going to be a breaking point where we're either going to get more tort reform in some of these states so that we can moderate this loss severity trend. In the meantime, you can expect us, I can't speak for other companies, but you could speak us to try to at least get the increase to cover trend. And if we can't, will get smaller. That's just the way we operate. So we're going to try to continue to get 10%, 15% increases on auto business going forward until we see that loss cost trends subside.

所以，在某個時候，將會有一個轉折點，屆時我們將在一些州進行更多的侵權法改革，以便緩解這種損失嚴重程度的趨勢。同時，您可以期待我們（我不能代表其他公司發言），但您可以和我們談談，爭取至少讓成長幅度達到趨勢水平。如果做不到，規模就會縮小。我們就是這樣運作的。因此，我們將繼續努力，爭取汽車業務實現 10% 到 15% 的成長，直到損失成本趨勢有所緩解。

Great. That's very helpful. Can you provide any additional detail on how your technology investments over the past several years have impacted your underwriting performance particularly touching on changes in submission to bind ratios within the transactional surety business?

偉大的。那很有幫助。您能否提供更多關於過去幾年您的技術投資如何影響您的承保業績的細節，特別是涉及交易擔保業務中提交到承保比率的變化？

Well, I would say our investments in technology have done a couple of things. I'll focus on a couple of things. One is really improving our customer experience and that starts actually before the technology. So considering, for example, what questions we ask, we've tried to simplify it in a few places, the application questions that we're asking me the more straightforward on.

嗯，我認為我們在技術方面的投資已經取得了一些成果。我將重點放在以下兩件事。第一點是真正改善我們的客戶體驗，而這實際上要從技術之前就開始了。例如，考慮到我們提出的問題，我們已經嘗試在一些地方簡化問題，我們向我提出的申請問題也更加直接明了。

But whenever I get the application, I struggle with how you answer this question. So trying to simplify it based on feedback and input from our producer partners and insurers has been really critical, then providing that through automation and modern systems, which we've been upgrading over the last few years. For example, in Surety, we're rolling out an upgrade to our current offerings.

但是每次我收到申請表時，都會對這個問題的回答感到困惑。因此，根據我們的生產合作夥伴和保險公司的反饋和意見來簡化流程至關重要，然後透過自動化和現代系統來實現這一點，而我們在過去幾年中一直在升級這些系統。例如，在擔保業務方面，我們正在推出現有產品的升級。

We've been in that business since 1992, as you can imagine, that technology has changed tremendously over the decades. And so our recent investment is rolling out to provide end-to-end ability to look at what's going on the surety bond by those producers, so they can service that business better without feeling like they're other enough to ask questions and whatnot.

我們自 1992 年以來一直從事這項業務，正如您所想，幾十年來，這項技術發生了巨大的變化。因此，我們最近的投資正在逐步推出，旨在提供端到端的能力，讓這些生產商能夠查看擔保債券的運作情況，以便他們能夠更好地服務於該業務，而不會覺得自己不夠格去提出問題等等。

So that will be very helpful to them. So really kind of that customer experience and getting business in the door has been a big investment. A second large bucket would be efficiencies. So there are a number of things we've done with efficiency through various types of artificial intelligence and various types of other automation to try to just set people spend more time using their brains of doing administrative tasks.

那對他們來說會很有幫助。所以，提升顧客體驗、吸引顧客進店一直是個很大的投資。第二個重要方面是效率。因此，我們透過各種人工智慧和其他自動化手段提高了效率，努力讓人們把更多的時間花在動腦而不是處理行政任務上。

So that can include things like summarizing submission information, summarizing claims, lengthy plan information. They can mean inputting various e-mails that come in regarding claims go straight into claim file so then we have to look at them and decide where they go, updating loss runs that come right in and go straight into our systems. So things of that nature on efficiencies has been a big category.

因此，這可能包括總結提交資訊、總結索賠、冗長的計劃資訊等內容。這可能意味著將收到的各種與索賠相關的電子郵件直接輸入到索賠文件中，然後我們必須查看它們並決定它們的去向，更新直接進入我們系統的損失報告。因此，諸如此類提高效率的因素一直是重要的一個類別。

And then lastly, I would say, it's just that improving that feedback was that we have between underwriting, claim and analytics, really getting our data in places where we can really look at it, slice and dice it granularly have the ability to update that daily where it makes sense. So some business units that doesn't make sense. We don't need to invest in that.

最後，我想說，改進這種回饋的關鍵在於，我們要在核保、理賠和分析部門之間真正收集數據，以便我們能夠真正地查看數據，進行細緻的分析和切塊，並能夠在必要時每天更新數據。所以有些業務部門這樣做是沒道理的。我們不需要在這方面投資。

But in others, there's data available to drive decisions, but we will like to get updated more often. So we've rolled out a number of dashboards to provide people insight into submission counts, binding, percentages as well as marrying that up with loss information, so which producers, which states, which types of business, which attributes of an insurance drive loss activity. All of that information has been ramped up to help us make better decisions as we're underwriting and handling claims. So those are kind of the three big buckets that we have focused on.

但在其他情況下，雖然有數據可用於指導決策，但我們希望能夠更頻繁地獲得更新。因此，我們推出了一系列儀錶板，為人們提供有關投保數量、承保率、百分比以及損失資訊等方面的見解，從而了解哪些生產商、哪些州、哪些類型的企業、哪些保險屬性導致了損失活動。所有這些資訊都得到了加強，以幫助我們更好地進行承保和理賠決策。所以，以上就是我們重點關注的三大領域。

And I would say, given our diverse portfolio, you're never done but we have spent a lot of time and effort, and I think reaping the rewards in that we continue to make an underwriting profit, which is in a more challenging environment as the market softens, we've got everything in place so that we can keep making great decisions for that by line.

而且我認為，鑑於我們多元化的投資組合，我們永遠不會停止努力，但我們已經投入了大量的時間和精力，我認為我們獲得了回報，因為我們在市場疲軟、更具挑戰性的環境下仍然能夠持續獲得承保利潤，我們已經做好了一切準備，以便能夠繼續為該業務線做出正確的決策。

There are no further questions at this time. So I will turn the conference over to Mr. Kliethermes, RLI's President and CEO, for some closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題了。接下來，我將把會議交給 RLI 的總裁兼執行長 Kliethermes 先生，請他作總結發言。

Thank you. Before we wrap up, I want to take a minute to reflect on what this year, our 30th consecutive year of underwriting profitability truly represents. 30 years ago, RLI was a very different company. We wrote about $270 million of gross written premium. Roughly 1/3 of our business was earthquake insurance. We were still in the contact wins business.

謝謝。在結束之前，我想花一點時間回顧一下今年——我們連續第30年實現承保盈利——的真正意義。 30年前，RLI還是一家截然不同的公司。我們承保的總保費約為 2.7 億美元。我們大約三分之一的業務是地震保險。我們當時仍在做爭取客戶合約的工作。

Our market cap was under $200 million and we were proud to make World's top 50 performing insurance companies for the fifth straight year for the record 2025 represented our 35th consecutive year on that list. The world was a different place too. Public access to the Internet was just getting started with AOL and Protege. The Sony PlayStation has just hit the market. Cell phones were used for one thing to make phone calls.

我們的市值不到 2 億美元，我們很自豪能夠連續第五年躋身全球業績最好的 50 家保險公司之列，而 2025 年則是我們連續第 35 年位列該榜單。世界也與現在截然不同。AOL 和 Protege 的出現才剛開啟了公眾上網的時代。索尼PlayStation遊戲機剛上市。手機最初的用途只有一個：打電話。

A lot has changed over those 30 years, but the things that matter most to us haven't. There are still no shortcuts in this business. Sustained success is built the same way it has always been with discipline, accountability and a lot of hard work. What gives me the most confidence as we look forward is not just our results but how we produce them. We have a strong balance sheet, a diversified portfolio and a team of engaged employee owners who care deeply about the decisions they make and the outcomes they produce. Every day, they show up committed to making RLI a better company for its customers, their coworkers, and our shareholders.

30年來，很多事情都發生了變化，但對我們來說最重要的東西卻沒有改變。在這個行業裡，仍然沒有捷徑可走。持續的成功仍然像以往一樣，離不開自律、責任感和辛勤工作。展望未來，最讓我充滿信心的不僅是我們的結果，還有我們取得這些結果的方式。我們擁有穩健的資產負債表、多元化的投資組合以及一支敬業的員工股東團隊，他們非常關心自己所做的決定和產生的結果。他們每天都盡心盡力，致力於讓 RLI 成為一家對客戶、同事和股東都更好的公司。

Our founder like to say that great companies are built on good decision at a time and that those decisions never seem easy in the moment. That philosophy has served RLI well for three decades, and it continues to guide us today. We're proud of what we've accomplished, but we're not done. We're optimistic about the future, confident in our approach and committed to doing what we've always done, staying disciplined, staying different and playing the long game.

我們的創辦人常說，偉大的公司是建立在當下做出的正確決策之上的，而這些決策在當時看來從來都不容易。過去三十年來，這種理念一直為 RLI 帶來益處，並且至今仍在指導著我們。我們為所取得的成就感到自豪，但我們還沒有完成。我們對未來充滿樂觀，對我們的方法充滿信心，並致力於做我們一直以來所做的事情：保持自律，保持獨特性，並專注於長遠發展。

I would be remiss to end without thanking Todd Bryant, our CFO, who just retired at year-end after 31 years of dedicated service to RLI. I also want to thank our employee owners for their hard work and we appreciate you all for your continued interest in RLI. We look forward to speaking with you again next quarter.

最後，我必須感謝我們的財務長托德布萊恩特，他在為 RLI 兢兢業業服務 31 年後，於年底退休。我還要感謝我們的員工股東們的辛勤工作，感謝大家一直以來對 RLI 的關注。我們期待下個季度再次與您交流。

That concludes today's call. Thank you all for attending. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位的出席。您現在可以斷開連線了。